/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/08/21/#edubuntu.txt

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=== Topic for #edubuntu: Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 22:00 UTC Wednesday 17 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting.
=== Topic (#edubuntu): set by JaneW at Wed Aug 10 18:39:26 2005
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PetarisHello mhz02:06
mhzhey, Petaris 02:06
ograJaneW, Petaris is our first real edubuntu user ;)02:07
=== JaneW applauds Petaris !
Petarisstill some work to be done though02:07
JaneWyay :)02:07
mhzindeed02:07
JaneWPetaris: how's it looking?02:07
ograJaneW, he uses his own desktop environment on top....02:08
PetarisJaneW: Well I got a dumb-client up and running with icewm but haven't gotten farther than that02:08
JaneWoic02:08
PetarisI will need to do some desktop tweaking02:08
Petarisalso I want to use auto login and have all users use the same storage space02:09
Petarislocking down the desktop so changes are not allowed will also be nessesary02:09
Petarisbut it is a good first step02:10
PetarisOh yeah, I almost forgot I got OpenOffice.org2 installed as well02:11
mhzI have tried 3 times, unsuccessfully02:11
mhzwell, last install kind of worked02:11
Petarisinstall of OO.org or of the ltsp?02:12
mhzbut took for ever to be up and running02:12
mhzedubuntu02:12
Petarisahh02:12
ogramhz, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13496 02:12
PetarisHey, on a side note icewm loads immediatly (no wait time after login)02:13
ograwe are currently working o this one... that blocks the language pack installation and breaks the install02:13
mhzyes, icewm is quick02:13
mhzPetaris: however, fluxbox is faster, AFAIK02:13
mhz:)02:13
ogramhz, did you use the default edubuntu-desktop install in your tests ?02:13
mhzI couldn't because there was a powercut downhere and I only got to 89%02:14
mhzof the installation02:14
Petarisogra: is there a way to force the install on the languagepack?02:14
mhzinstallation = after rebooting02:14
Petarislike a -f flag02:14
ograPetaris, noe, but there is already a fix... it will be in the next CD build02:15
ogranope even02:15
Petarisok02:15
mhzogra: despite of the issues, you have been doing a good job02:15
ograthanks... others see that different :) 02:16
mhzthe good thing is I finally have a thin laptop running Ubuntu (at least). I installed FROM WINDOWS :D02:16
ograwow...02:16
mhzogra: nah, "show me the code"... that's what really matters02:17
ograi which PXE wireless would work02:17
mhzhehe02:17
ograwhish even02:17
=== mhz would be happy with wired PXE :)
PetarisWhat are you guys using for dumb-clients?02:18
mhzit took me 2 days to actually understand a very stupid thing from HowTo's (1st Ubuntu wiki was outdated, 2nd 'append' means 'add to the end')02:18
=== ogra uses a amd64 512MB laptop as his *only* testclient
ograi wouldnt call that dumb *g*02:19
Petarisahh02:19
PetarisI use solarpc units02:19
ograits my only PXE capable machine02:19
Petarishttp://www.solarpc.com/02:19
PetarisSee there02:19
Petaristhe company has been great to work with02:19
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ograPetaris, cool02:20
PetarisI ended up getting the server, 25 clients, monitors, keyboards, mice, and a gigabit switch (24pt)02:21
mhzWOW02:21
Petarisall for under $8,000 USD02:21
mhzcool02:21
PetarisThe server has a single Opteron 242 and 4GB ram, with a pair of 160GB 7200rpm sata drives in raid 102:22
Petaristhe server is dual opteron capable though and there is a whole second bank for ram02:23
PetarisI consider it a sweet deal02:23
mhzogra: i don't mean to push you at all, but I am running out of time with the timing for a presentation/demo. The congress in Peru is on the 23rd and ONE of the many things I have to prepare (and maybe the most important missing) is a Edubuntu Server. Do yo think I can download a 'working beta' (issues I can avoid before I sit down to actually install)??02:25
mhzPetaris: any chances you can wiki that info?02:25
Petarismhz: don't try to use a fake or on-board raid02:26
ogramhz, if you can live with one day delay, yes... i dont know how long the new CD build will take... but i guess tomorrow mornings daily should be installable02:26
Petarismhz: which info?  The server specs?02:26
mhzogra: thank you very much for your understanding02:27
ogramhz, i sadly cant speed it up more...02:27
mhzPetaris: yep, among other things. Your specs, how you did it, how you felt, how you feel about it, etc02:27
Petarismhz: are you doing the install in front of them, or just demoing it after02:28
mhzogra: don't worry, I 100% understand you. My 2 machines (1 celeron desktop and 1 thin 500 MHz laptop) work with 128 MB and have to deal with 5 powercuts a day :(02:28
Petarismhz: any specific place it should go in the wiki (wiki.ubuntu.org?)02:28
mhzPetaris: I should start demoing. Next day, I should present a workshop02:29
Petarismhz: but you are not installing in front of them right?02:29
ogramhz, as soon as mdz wakes up, he'll be on a CD building spree... i'm very confident he'll use the whip at the right places to make it happen today :)02:29
Petarisso a bit more complicated install could be done with out makeing the system look bad02:30
mhzPetaris: wiki/ nop. The good thing about wikis is that you just visit the wiki, login, and write TheNameOfYourPage after the / on the url area02:30
mhzthe real wiki concept is fully 'horizontal' wrtiting or page creation02:30
Petarisahh02:31
mhz(actually, that is the hardest thing to realize)02:31
mhzand, if Edubuntu people think your page is missplaces, the just assign it to a diff position02:31
mhzand you WILL always get to the page anyways02:32
mhz:)02:32
Petarisdoes launchpad.com share email addresses?02:32
=== mhz is a real fan, sorry for the enthusiasm
mhz'share'?02:32
Petarisyeah, with the public02:32
PetarisI don't want spam02:32
mhzhmmm, I guess you decide if email is shown or not02:33
mhzAFAIK, i doubt default is 'shown'02:34
Petarisalright02:34
mhzPetaris: thx. The thing is that 99% of the times, whatever we chat here it stays here02:35
mhzso important things as your experience, it is cool to be wikied02:35
PetarisI don't have all that much experiance on ltsp, so it will be new for me, I am very curious about the load on the server with 25 active clients02:36
mhzhhehe, fisrt impressions are as valid and interesting as experienced expectations02:37
ograyou need much mem :)02:37
mhzLOL02:37
mhzPetaris: fisrt impressions give edubuntu devels more ideas on how to improve something they do02:38
PetarisYeah, Im not sure if the 1.8GHz Opteron and 4GB RAM can pull it off with 25 sessions of firefox, openoffice.org, and gimp02:38
Petarisbut we will see02:39
mhzPetaris: c'mon! that's a lot 02:39
mhzhuge machine02:39
ograPetaris, i know highvoltage builds such environments, according to him 4GB are good02:40
mhzindeed02:41
mhzPetaris: it all depends on how much you want stations to demand from the server02:41
Petarisogra: yeah, I emailed Paul Nelson at Riverdale high school about it a while ago02:42
PetarisHe thought it would be fine but suggested a second proc02:42
Petarisbut we will see02:42
PetarisPaul is the head of K12LTSP02:43
Petarishttp://k12ltsp.org/contents.html02:43
Petarisogra: he may be able to help you guys out a bit02:43
ograi think mdz already works with the guys in #ltsp, i guess Paul is hanging around there02:44
Petarisoh, I don't know about that, just that I've always found him helpful02:45
highvoltagePetaris: we use Xeon 3ghz with 2GB RAM in tuxlabs with 20 computer02:45
Petarishighvoltage: dual proc or single?02:46
Petarisis there a reason we need to use gdm?02:49
highvoltagePetaris: single02:49
highvoltagegdm is cool. what else would you want to use?02:49
Petarisxdm02:49
Petarisit is small and light02:49
highvoltageit is, but it won't be popular in schools.02:50
ograwho uses gdm ? 02:50
PetarisI'm just wondering if ldm is dependant on gdm02:50
highvoltageogra: we use gdm, in edubuntu 02:50
ograwe use ldm in our ltsp implementation02:50
highvoltage:)02:50
highvoltageah, right.02:50
ograhighvoltage, edubuntu doesnt :)02:50
Petarisogra: so ldm is standalone then, right?02:50
highvoltagehow's ldm? i think i'll go look for a site.02:51
ograPetaris, ldm is a complete new login manager implementation in python02:51
ograhighvoltage, there is no site.... 02:51
ograits included in the ltsp package...02:51
Petarisby the by ldm needs to be prettified, is there any easy way to tweak how it looks?02:51
highvoltageogra: is ldm only used in edubuntu atm? i haven't seen it anywhere before.02:52
Petarisbrb02:52
ograi'll write some instructions... you have to chroot into the ltsp environment and install another gtk engine to change the theme... for now we go with our default theme only02:52
ograhighvoltage, mdz wrote it... i wrote the gui...02:52
ograits not fifnished yet02:52
highvoltagewow.02:53
ograand, yes, only in edubuntu ltsp02:53
highvoltagei've just started the download of the new cd.02:53
highvoltagei really want to see this.02:53
ograhighvoltage, wait for the next CD or rsync the updae to it... the current one is still broken... next is likely to be installable02:54
highvoltagehow does it's theming work? I suppose it won't use something big like the xml layouts that gdm uses.02:54
highvoltageis it diffult to fix? the last one i downloaded i could get more or less booting.02:54
ograi hardcoded the theme engine it uses.... but you can change the gtkrc... i'll build a config file for the theme soon...02:55
ograit somehow looks like the gdm classic greeter with a theme...02:55
highvoltageaah. so you get a background and a logo? :P02:57
ogracurrently a black background and a login box02:58
mhzogra: once edubuntu is installed, is there a GUI for LSTP or it is just a matter of running ltsp tools? Also, after installing, where do we set the option to install edubuntu onto the clients?03:03
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Petarisok, back03:04
PetarisI had to make coffee03:04
Petaris:)03:04
ogramhz, there is no option to install anything on the clients... why would you want that ? 03:04
ograthey netboot from the server and open a ssh tunnel.... through this they run a x session on the server03:05
mhzyes03:05
ograi started a admin tool, since teachertool doesnt work for us, but it doesnt look like i have enough time left to get it ready...03:05
=== Petaris thinks of what his next step should be
Petarishrmm03:06
mhzI may have understood wrong, but I do rememeber after last wed meeting here, someone mentioned it is possible to install linux onto the clients using Edubuntu03:06
ograyou can do a standalone workstation install (for teachers at home) and a standalone ltsp server install for now in this release...03:07
mhz?03:07
ograoter features will be added in breezy+103:07
=== mhz trying to understand right this time
ogramhz, our target is to have a standalone ltsp/diskles client install out of the box... additionally you can install a version without the server stuff thats a standalone workstation03:08
mhzyes, I get that part03:09
Petarisok, first thing to fix - Fonts in firefox03:09
ograwe dont support any mid sized clients yet03:09
=== mhz looking in his logs to find out the guilty one:)
ograi.e. ltsp clients with disks... you will need to do that manually in this release.... it will be a feature of the next one03:10
Petarisogra: the firefox font issue is because of the languagepack issue right?03:10
ograPetaris, i dont have it, so i dont know... buit its likely to be a ff/cairo problem... 03:10
mhzogra: Aug 10 08:45:28 <Kamion>        you should be able to test netboot installs if you boot with apt-setup/universe=true, plus the other Edubuntu preseeds that are on the CD03:15
mhz mhz: there's a netboot.tar.gz in /ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/ or somewhere like that in the archive03:15
ogramhz, that was about how to work around the CD brakage at this time, it has nothing to do with client installations03:15
mhzthat is still chineese to me03:15
mhzahhhhh03:16
mhzso I am still forced to boot from CD03:16
mhz?03:16
mhzor other media03:16
mhzor from Windows03:16
ogra?? 03:17
ografor the client ? 03:17
mhzyes03:17
ograit boots via PXE from the network by default... you dont install anything on it03:17
mhzi know03:17
ograasll installed stuff is on the server03:17
mhzbut IF I need to install onto thinclients?03:17
ograall even03:17
ograyou dont03:18
mhzI do03:18
mhz:)03:18
mhzLTSP is about not installing, I get that03:18
ograif a privileged user installs something on the clients, he effectively installs on the server03:18
mhzbut IF I do need to install linux on the clients?03:18
ograwhy ? 03:19
ograyou dont need *any* OS on the clients03:19
mhzbecause in Chile, some schools come with MS windows (based on a stupid agreement with MS and Gov)03:19
ograjust a PXE capable network card... all your softeare is on the server03:19
mhzand some people still prefer to give Teachers and students the option to work on a network (LTSP would be great for that) and also to work off network (may take the pc home for a weekend)03:20
mhzfor those OFF network, I'd need a quick install option03:21
ograyes, the single workstation i mentioned before...03:22
mhzI am presenting a project to Chilean Gov. about giving Teachers laptops (600 MHz, 192 MB, 12 GB HDD)03:22
ograits just not possible to combine it, you can only use either one... 03:22
mhzok, I get that too03:22
ograthats on our roadmap for breezy+1 as i said03:22
mhzbut these thin laptops have only HD, no Cd nor Floppy03:23
mhzok.03:23
mhzso let me see If I understand right this time:03:23
PetarisAnyone know if it is possible to get ltsp to authenticate off of ActiveDir?03:23
ograok, for these you can do a netboot install 03:23
ograPetaris, not yet... also a breezy+1 feature...03:23
mhzogra: now you got me confused again03:23
mhz:D03:24
mhzso let me see If I understand right this time:03:24
mhzEdubuntu is designed 100% LTSP,03:24
Petarisogra: your kidding right?  You think it will be possible?03:24
ogramhz, you can install a linux system over the network.... this info is totally independent from all edubuntu talk03:24
ograyou can use even a netboot image to install edubuntu03:24
Petarisogra: I was seriously consider switching to eDirectory to be able to authenticate03:25
ograbut you cant use a standalone installed edubutnu system to connect to a ltsp server for now03:25
mhzogra: yes, but to do that, clients still need to get to the server side and get it from there, otherwise, they continue booting from windows and therefore, no install will proceed03:25
ograPetaris, we'll most likely have a LDAP/Kreberos environment in breezy+1 so it should be possible03:26
mhzso Edubuntu is ONLY LTSP so far, and may include Server Boot Install capabilities in the future03:26
mhzogra: is that correct?03:26
ogramhz, they need to boot the installer from the network... but thats only about installing, not about working03:26
mhzyes03:26
Petarisogra: cool03:26
mhzogra: and to do that, PXE is just the 1st step. the server side has to be preconfigured to provide the netboot files03:27
ograyes03:28
mhzand that is not on this current Edubuntu scope, right?03:28
ograits not in edubutnu scope at all... thats basic installation stuff...03:28
mhzyes03:28
mhzso I have finally cleared my confussion03:28
mhzsorry for the 'mess'03:29
ograyou just need the netboot image from the installer... what you install with it is up to you03:29
mhzhehehe03:29
mhzyes03:29
Petarisogra: I uninstalled the mozilla-firefox package and installed the firefox package and now I have fonts03:29
ograbut it would probably a interesting idea to have a option on the server for that... we have a spec for network wide installs that may cove it03:29
mhzbut still, for school options, that means I will have to provide 2 settings: Edubuntu (LTSP) and Debian BootServer03:30
ograPetaris, hwere did you get mozilla-firefox ?? thats not a breezy package03:30
mhzogra: please, understand that I am only talking from a Chilean teacher perspective03:30
ogramhz, as an option...03:30
ograwhy should i build a special boot server, ltsp has everything in place (tftp etc) it could be possible to have an option on the server, no need for a extra machine...03:31
mhzthat was my initial idea that started this confussion03:32
ograi'll consider it for breezy+1 but its not there now...03:32
mhzokidoki03:32
ograand i think its covered by the mentioned spec03:32
mhzI am glad you clarified that to me03:32
mhzbecause I was designing my presentation based on that DUAL capability :D03:32
mhzand now it's only LTSP03:33
ogras/now/currently03:33
ogra;)03:33
mhzactually one of the openings was "the solution to schools lab and teachers problems"03:33
mhzit still is a solution, just not the total solution03:34
mhzbut the begining03:34
ograyes, its our first release.... we start small...03:34
mhzBasically, my concern is that "Edulinux" is being developed by the Gov and some people, based on RedHat.03:35
mhzIn chile, we have set up a ubuntu community03:35
ograover how many releases can you upgrade that without a complete reinstall ?03:35
mhzand a free software for education community. So Edubuntu was the ideal link03:36
ograthe big drawback of RPM based systems is the upgradebility03:36
mhzindeed03:36
ograyou can upgrade a debian system over several releases without even thinking about it... its just one command...03:36
highvoltageogra: most rpm systems aren't too bad imho. you can even use apt. it still doesn't beat a debian system...03:37
mhzhence one of the projects I am on at the moment, was to actually provide Pcs + LSTP + InstallationServer + Support + Training03:37
highvoltageogra: i think that's also an overstatement. i upgraded a potato box to sarge and did have few, minor issues.03:37
mhzall in one simple pack03:37
ograhighvoltage, the question is, does issuing "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and going away for 1h work ? 03:37
ograhighvoltage, yes, because you missed woody03:38
mhzogra: good point03:38
mhzyou need to go step by step03:38
ograyou need to upgrade to the next version, if you do that you mostly dont even need to touch the box, its ready after a reboot03:38
highvoltageogra: i've done it before from FC1 to FC3 for a school, and it worked.03:38
highvoltageI also used it on a SuSE box from SuSE 9.0 to 9.3. that also went fine.03:39
ograhighvoltage, thats very rare03:39
mhzis 9.0 to 9.3 the same as 8.0 to 9.0 ??03:39
ogra(working SuSE upgrades)03:39
highvoltageogra: i'm not arguing with you. I just think that it's a bit of an overstatement to say that you don't even have to think about it.03:39
mhzI mean in terms of version03:39
highvoltagethere are often things to consider.03:40
ograhighvoltage, but its true03:40
ograhighvoltage, did you try to upgrade warty to hoary ? its 3 commands and you are set...03:40
mhzif you go from Xfree to x.org? yes, things to consider03:40
ograno touching of the system at all03:40
ogramhz, nope03:40
highvoltagemhz: xfree to xorg went smooth form me.03:41
mhzogra: highvoltage: things to consider = 99% freedom to 100% freedom03:41
mhz:)03:41
highvoltageogra: i've dist-upgraded between knoppix -> sarge -> sid -> warty -> back to sid again, without much problems. I have lots of faith in APT.03:42
highvoltagehowever,03:42
ogramhz, highvoltage we (ubuntu) guaratee that upgardes between nonmodified releases work out of the box 03:42
highvoltagei've dist-upgraded on servers before and for some reasons postfix won't work.03:42
highvoltageand that needed some fixing.03:42
mhzI have gone from potato to woody with no issues, and from woody to sarge with no issues03:42
ograhighvoltage, if you use knoppix as a base your system is broken before you start03:42
highvoltageogra: ok, i'll accept that.03:42
Petarisogra: with apt03:42
highvoltageogra: it is?03:43
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ograhighvoltage, yes, a knoppix installation has not much to do with a debian system anymore... they just copy over the CD to HD ...03:43
ograwith a lot of incompatibility03:43
ograsince its not designed as a install system03:44
highvoltageogra: the dpkg databases, etc are all still intact, and dist-upgrades to other debian systems went well for me.03:44
highvoltagebut yes, i agree with you.03:44
ograbtw the path knoppix -> sarge -> sid -> warty cant work03:45
highvoltageogra: i promise you it did.03:45
ograyou end up with a debian system with some warty packages03:45
ograit didnt03:45
ograyou had a mixed system03:45
highvoltageokay. perhaps i did. now that i think of it, i remember seeing a knoppix in the init line when it booted.03:46
ograsid is/was newer then warty except for a period of 2 months... apt doesnt downgrade without being forced03:46
highvoltagebut the dist-upgrades did go fine, and the system looked and worked like an ordinary ubuntu machine.03:46
highvoltageah, this was also more than a year ago.03:47
ograyes, but you have mostly debian systems in there03:47
highvoltageor at least, when i upgraded to sid, that was before warty03:47
ograi'm cursing people doing that a lot, because they send totally broken hwdb entrys to me that confuse everything (debians hal is newer, but missing all hwdb enhancements)03:47
ograand that goes for the majority of packages...03:48
highvoltage i don't do that on any machines anymore, though.03:48
ograeven if it looks like a ubuntu system, it will break heavily at one place or you end up with a plain debian03:48
highvoltageback then it was just upgrading the various systems that i had to ubuntu.03:49
highvoltagesince then i've done some cleanups and re-installed.03:49
ograone upgrade will pull in a wrong library... 03:49
ograthat will break everything...03:49
highvoltagewill apt allow that though? i mean, it knows what versions of libraries programs need to run?03:49
ograbreezy will be eve worse ( but hopefully wont work at all) since we already use a new gcc and libc...03:50
jsgotangcoyay03:50
ograhighvoltage, apt relies on the sanity of the archive... thats only guven if you dont mix your surces.list entrys between different distributors03:50
highvoltagethat i understand. do you think ubuntu-debian compatibility will get worse, or better, as time goes by?03:50
jsgotangcoi love to being in this growing confusion03:51
ograthey are two different things all devs shout very loud not to mix ubuntu and debian packages since warty is out... its proven to brak at some point03:51
ograi.e. we use language packs, debian doesnt... that *must* break....03:52
ograour libc is compiled with gcc, debian just starts that transition03:53
ogras/gcc/gcc403:53
!lilo:*! Hi all. We had some compile difficulties on the testnet and we're now ready to reup.03:53
ograour c++ librarys have totally different binary names03:53
highvoltagelong term though, is it likely to get worse, or better?03:54
ograwe have a totally different Xserver implementation03:54
ograit will stay the same, dont use debian packages in ubuntu atll03:54
ograall03:54
highvoltagei mean, debian might implement the language packs, etc too in the future, and they might plan their releases in such a way to maitain compatibility (big job probably)03:54
ograwe use our own build system, we'll never be 100% compatible... and our schedule doesnt match any debian schaduel so either we or they are bnewer03:55
highvoltageok.03:55
highvoltagei accept it, but i'll admit that i don't like it.03:56
jsgotangcoyou can also think that we're too advanced for debian itself at the moment :)03:56
ograits not possible to be binary compatible all over the place between the two different approaches... one is always ahead of the other.... debian is behind us currently, but will pass us after release03:57
jsgotangcoyes but by then we have another one in development because we're alway in sid03:58
ograjsgotangco, yes, i talk about releases03:58
jsgotangcoahh03:58
PetarisI liked portage far better than apt04:09
Petarisright, now to create a standard interface04:17
PetarisWhere can I set-up default profile info for the dumb-clients04:17
PetarisI suppose I create a user and modify that profile then point all ltsp users at that profile?04:18
Petarishighvoltage: how do you handle logins?04:19
Petarisdo you asign usernames and passwords, or do you have just one generic username/password or do you use autologin?04:20
highvoltagePetaris: nothing fancy. usually pam, sometimes a little NIS where appropriate, sometimes ldap.04:20
highvoltagein tuxlabs, we create default guest acounts04:20
highvoltagetux1, tux2, tux3, etc.04:20
Petarisok04:20
highvoltageso that kids can start using the lab the minute we're done. after that the teachers and computer prefects need to add more users.04:21
Petarisdo you have them login or does it just automatically login on boot04:21
highvoltagemanually log in.04:21
ograin edubuntu, just create the users with the user management tool from the admin desktop04:21
ograevery user you create has access ...04:21
Petariswhat user managemnet tool?04:21
Petarisuseradd?04:22
Petaris:p04:22
=== Petaris is not running gnome, :)
ograsad04:22
ograbecause that tool is tailored for ubuntu/edubuntu04:22
ograinstall gnome-system-tools and use the user-admin tool04:23
Petarisuseradd can be your friend too :)04:23
ograyou can have different profiles there04:23
Petarisogra: will that install gnome as well?04:23
ograsure, but adding a user tzo the right groups can be a PITA04:23
ogragnome libs04:24
Petarislets see, they need audio and what else?04:24
Petaristhey don't need wheel04:24
Petarisor cdrom04:24
Petarisor burning04:25
Petarishrm04:25
PetarisI think they only need audio unless there is an ltsp group04:25
Petarishighvoltage: do you use independant user profiles or do you have all accounts reference the same profile?04:26
highvoltageindependent.04:26
Petarisor do you reference a template04:26
Petarisahh04:26
highvoltagea template, called skeletux. although it's very messy at this stage.04:27
Petarisdo you have a shared storage space?04:27
highvoltageyes.04:27
Petarishmm04:27
highvoltage/home/shared, and there's a shortcut on the desktop to it, which is also a samba share.04:27
Petariscool04:27
Petaristhats what I was thinking of doing04:27
ograhighvoltage, would you like to take a look at sabayon ? we'll most likely use it for the privileged stuff....04:28
highvoltageogra: okay, i made a note of it. i have meetings tonight and tomorrow night, so i'll be able to look at it on thursday.04:29
jsgotangcoogra: are we including sabayon?04:29
ograhighvoltage, take your time... it would just be nice to have somebody additionally looking at it... i'll do it anyway...04:29
highvoltageogra: JaneW says you're taking too much on for yourself :)04:30
ograjsgotangco, a thing i'll still have to discuss with mdz, but its the tool that comes near a kiosk mode  :)04:30
jsgotangcoindeed04:30
highvoltageok. gtg now. take care everyone!04:31
ograciao highvoltage 04:31
jsgotangcociao04:31
highvoltageciao ogra and jsgotangco 04:31
Petarislatter highvoltage04:31
highvoltagel8r Petaris 04:31
Petarissome day I really need to learn how to spell, hehe04:32
ograPetaris, edubuntu will come with a lot of spellchecking capabilitys ;)04:33
Petarishaha, good04:33
JaneWnod04:35
Petarishttp://www.projectblackdog.com/site/product.html04:36
Petarischeck this out04:36
Petarisoff topic I know, but cool none the less04:37
=== mhz rebooting to test touchpad off
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mhzjsgotangco: I read your email about svn for cookbook source04:52
mhzit was you, weren't you?04:53
jsgotangcohi04:57
jsgotangcomhz: you have a better idea?04:57
mhzwell, I was/am the one suggesting Moin :)04:59
jsgotangcoyes im aware of that, what im asking is if its workable in our current moin04:59
jsgotangcobecause we only have a few weeks before documentation freeze05:01
jsgotangcomhz: ?05:08
=== mhz sorry on the phone
jsgotangcok05:09
JaneW*** Reminder MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 22:00 UTC Wednesday 17 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting. ***05:15
JaneWtomorrow05:15
ogra_afkhopefully with a working CD :)05:16
jsgotangcogrr05:16
jsgotangco2205:16
jsgotangcothat's 6am05:16
JaneWsigh it was meant to be a BETTER time for you05:17
ogra_afkmake it 2305:17
=== ogra_afk is now known as ogra
jsgotangcono i'll just try to wake up early05:18
JaneW11pm!05:18
JaneWYAWN05:18
jsgotangcohuh?05:18
ograJaneW, hey, i have some at 1am :)05:18
jsgotangcoits already 11pm on my side now05:18
LinuxJonesJaneW, what timezone is UTC for what area ?05:18
jsgotangcoi don't even feel sleepy05:19
ograLinuxJones, date -u 05:19
JaneWUTC is universal time05:19
JaneW= GMT05:19
LinuxJonesahh ty05:19
JaneWLinuxJones: where are you?05:19
LinuxJonesJaneW, Eastern Canada in the Atlantic Time Zone05:20
JaneWomg I thought I made it 20:00 - 22:00 is 12am!05:20
JaneWcan we change it to 20:00? or any other time?05:21
ograsure05:21
jsgotangco20 is 4am05:21
jsgotangcosure05:21
ograheh05:21
JaneWgah!05:21
mhzre05:21
JaneWok make some suggestions05:21
ograjsgotangco, so you can decide to stay up long or stand up early05:21
mhzLOL05:22
LinuxJonesheh05:22
JaneWwe haven;t given the Americas a chance yet (all meetings being at 12:00UTC so far)05:22
JaneWbut that works well for me05:22
jsgotangcoJaneW: i prefer to say to myself that i live in the wrong place at the moment, working with you gusy05:22
jsgotangcoguys05:22
JaneWluckilly I am in the middle of everyone so it's never TOO bad05:22
ograJaneW, since k12 is our main target, we should start caring for the americans soon :)05:23
JaneWok so what time are we doing it?05:23
mhzI live in South America, chile. so 22PM UTC would be 18 PM ???05:23
JaneW22:00?05:23
ograafter release this meetings will get fuller i guess05:23
jsgotangcoindeed05:23
JaneWmhz: I think so05:24
JaneWjsgotangco: will you be there at 22:00? cos if not I'm moving it to 20:00 - ok?05:24
jsgotangco22 is fine with me05:24
JaneWdang05:24
JaneWok05:24
jsgotangcobut you should consider the majority05:25
jsgotangcoso if its 20, i will try05:25
jsgotangcowe don't meet every now and then05:25
JaneW4am? that's just mean05:25
mhz4am? just perfect for a mokaccino05:26
mhz:)05:26
jsgotangcoJaneW: thank the saviour that i don't live in Sydney05:26
mhzI endup a class at 18:00 :(05:26
JaneWmhz: local time in Santiago is 4 hours behind UTC05:26
mhzyep05:27
mhzbut not in ubunut wiki server :)05:27
JaneWmhz so you want it earlier or later?05:28
=== JaneW must go in 5 mins
jsgotangcohttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2005&month=8&day=17&hour=22&min=0&sec=005:28
ograJaneW, and miss all the fun today ? 05:28
mhzI prefer a bit later so I can get to it, but I am usually almost zero help :D05:28
JaneWogra: what time does the fun start?05:29
=== JaneW does not want to miss yoga again... my sanity needs it
ograJaneW, if mdz gets up ? 05:29
jsgotangcoyeah05:29
JaneWogra: lol05:29
jsgotangcoyoga05:29
JaneWI'll try to pop in later, but it looks to be a LATE night tomorrow...05:29
jsgotangcoyou don't look like a yoga person05:29
JaneWyes05:29
jsgotangcoto me05:29
ograquoting #u-d topic: Colony 3 will release today: don't break anything05:29
JaneWjsgotangco: I don't? ;)05:30
=== JaneW has been doing yoga for 7.5 years :P
ograjsgotangco, huh ? how do "yoga persons" look ? like walking nodes ? 05:30
jsgotangcohmm so you can bend yourself silly?05:30
ogras/nodes/knots05:30
jsgotangcolike a twister champ?05:30
JaneWjsgotangco: but I counter balance that with kata box - so I can relax and/or beat people up depending on which urge is stronger ;P05:30
=== ogra makes note not to mess with JaneW in RL ...
JaneWlol05:31
ogra:)05:31
JaneWogra: you;re far to nice to beat up :)05:31
JaneWbesides I can only do it if there's music with the right beat playing!05:31
ograhehe.... my GF would say different sometimes :)05:31
=== jsgotangco gets this urge to finish his edubuntu commitment on time
JaneWhehehe05:32
JaneWok I must go, I guess the meeting time stays as is...05:32
ograyup, have fun... and dont forget: "only bend, dont break" ;)05:33
jsgotangcoshe must have very strong bones05:34
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jsgotangcogood night05:53
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Petarishrm, why can't I find blackdown in apt05:54
Petariswhat is used for java?05:54
ogra__should be in multiverse05:54
PetarisI'll check my sources.list file05:55
PetarisI have no multiverse05:55
Petarishrm05:55
ogra__add it05:56
Petariswhat mirror should I add?05:56
ogra__blackdown is supposed to be there for breezy, i'm not sure if it got moved there aleready05:56
Petarisjust use the us.archive.org mirror?05:56
ogra__yup05:57
Petarisok05:57
Petarisapparently not ther yet05:59
Petariss/ther/there05:59
ogra__nope, i just asked doko in #ubuntu-devel ... its not in yet06:00
Petarisbugger, I need it to run jedit06:00
Petarisguess I'll just have to use nano for now06:01
ogra__there is a Java wikipage, look at that one for blackdown sources.list entrys06:01
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mptJust what the world needs, three ogras06:02
ogra__heh06:03
ogra__there he goes06:03
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highvoltagehmmm... i upgraded to hoary latest and now thunderbird doesn't start up. any idea?06:26
highvoltagealt+f2 and alt+tab doesn't work either.06:38
ogra__nope, ask pitti, i think he made the updated apckages for hoary06:41
ogra__packages too06:41
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mdz   * Added openssh-server to server-i386, server-amd64, server-powerpc10:56
mdz   * Added dhcp3-server to server-i386, server-amd64, server-powerpc10:56
mdzogra: ^ ???10:56
ogramdz, sure... we want ltsp out of te box, dont we ? ltsp-server only has arecommends for openssh-server10:57
mdzogra: ltsp-server doesn't give you ltsp out of the box10:59
mdzthat is what ltsp-standalone-server is10:59
ograoops... so dhcp is to much, i see10:59
mdzit is not only too much, it won't work, because dhcp3-server will be unconfigured11:00
ograi'll create a config with the -config package later... for testing users can modify the file from /etc/ltsp11:01
mdzwhy would you want to do something different than what Ubuntu is doing?11:01
ogramdz, how else should i get ltsp out of the box ? i need a working dhcp.conf11:03
ogras/dhcp.conf/dhcpd.conf11:04
mdzogra: that is what ltsp-server-standalone does11:04
mdzthat is what the file in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is11:05
ograhmm, not for me yet... how does it determine the ip range etc ? additionally the tftp server is disabled by default and portmap blocks nfs connections11:05
ograso i will have to make some basic changes for a working config... at least thats what i expirienced here until now...11:06
ograi didnt know you intended to change nfs and tftp services with ltsp-server-standalone... so these are bus then...11:07
ograbugs even11:07
mdzogra: ltsp-server has configured nfs exports since version 0.2511:16
mdzogra: in June11:16
mdzogra: and tftp requires no configuration11:16
ograit does, in /etc/defaults ... its disabled...11:16
ograat least for me... even after installing l-s-s11:17
ograthe exports are configured fine, but the nfs-kernel-server isnt started and portmap still listens on lo for me...11:18
mdzogra: the default for portmap should be to listen on all interfaces11:18
ograOPTIONS="-i 127.0.0.1"11:19
ografrom /etc/default/portmap11:19
ogra#Defaults for tftpd-hpa11:19
ograRUN_DAEMON="no"11:19
ograOPTIONS="-l -s /var/lib/tftpboot"11:19
mdzthen someone broke it11:20
mdzRUN_DAEMON is irrelevant11:20
mdzit runs from inetd by default11:20
ografrom /etc/default/tftpd-hpa11:20
mdzbut please do fix portmap11:20
mdzit was only set to 127.0.0.1 for fam in hoary11:20
ogradid we exclude it in breezy from the desktop ? 11:21
mdzit is in universe11:23
ograah, found it11:23
mdzand has been for months11:23
ograNFS is explicitly not here, because it brings in nasties like portmap, and because the network will need to be running before it can be used, so we may as well put that in Supported.11:23
ogragreat :)11:23
ogramdz, portmap isnt in universe... (luckily... i was fearing another main inclusion report already) its just not in base anymore...11:32
ogras/base/minimal11:33
=== mpt realizes the Edubuntu spec never got personal use cases
mdzogra: ?11:34
mdzogra: fam is in universe11:34
mdzogra: portmap was part of desktop in hoary because we had fam in desktop, and fam required portmap11:34
mdzso we changed portmap to listen only on localhost by default for security reasons11:34
mdznow we don't have fam in desktop anymore (it's moved to universe), and portmap's default was supposed to be changed back11:35
ograyep... i was reading the above as portmap is in universe... which shocked me a bit :)11:35
ogrampt, our two current usecases are one classroom (ltsp standalone setup) or teachers home (workstation standalone setup) thats what we worked out at the summit for the first release... 11:37
ogra(teachers home can as well be pupils home indeed)11:38
mdzI just uploaded portmap fixing the default11:38
mdzthat was supposed to change months ago and I thought it had11:38
ograoh, i was just on it11:38
ograi bet someone thinks he has changed that....11:39
ograif [ "$1" = "configure" ]  && [ -n "$2" ]  && dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt "5-7ubuntu2"; then11:39
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mdzthat's for upgrades11:42
mdzthe default in debian/templates was wrong11:42
ograah, yes11:43
PetarisWell I'm off12:02
Petarisbye all12:02

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