[12:13] <marco_g> hi
[12:14] <marco_g> Hopefully this is the right channel for my question.
[12:14] <marco_g> I am a GRUB (GRUB2) developer and looking for some advise.
[12:15] <marco_g> On the grub-devel mailinglist we had a discussion about what kind of features the new GRUB should have so a nice interface can be implemented.
[12:15] <marco_g> But that is a discussion between developers, which can be rather useless I guess. I hope you guys can have a look at the discussion (there are archives) and share your ideas.
[12:16] <marco_g> In case ubuntu developers are interested to cooperate with GRUB developers.
[12:23] <AndyFitz> marco_g this is a great topic for discussion.   could you point me to the archives ?
[12:25] <marco_g> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2005-08/msg00104.html
[12:25] <marco_g> It's all in this thread.
[12:25] <marco_g> The first email is not really interesting, it is about a patch.
[12:26] <marco_g> But the following discussion is also about what should be present for a nice interface.
[12:27] <AndyFitz> yeah  its totally confusing .  but the rest of the thread is quite interesting
[12:27] <marco_g> Currently GRUB (even the old GRUB used in ubuntu) has no fancy interface at all. The interface some distributions use are some ugly patches, etc.
[12:28] <marco_g> Ubuntu uses one of these patches, now we want good support in upstream.
[12:28] <AndyFitz> yeah fedoras one is quite yuck ( however nicer since we get that vga-image love )
[12:29] <AndyFitz> I'm actually using  fedoras grub modified with a ubuntu theme ;)  ( I dual boot for work )
[12:30] <marco_g> :-)
[12:30] <AndyFitz> so its only possible to have vga at the bootloader ?.  thats fair enough.  the Usplash guys have that same problem
[12:30] <marco_g> We will have VESA support, which is even better.
[12:30] <AndyFitz> OMFG  I just read that
[12:30] <AndyFitz> !!!!!!!!!
[12:31] <AndyFitz> to a graphics guy  this is like turning grapes into a fine wine.. and then getting drunk
[12:32] <marco_g> lol
[12:32] <marco_g> VESA means that you can have all kinds of graphics modes.
[12:33] <marco_g> The GRUB Legacy patches for the splashimages have all kinds of weird limitations AFAIK.
[12:34] <marco_g> AndyFitz: So what would be interesting for us are the two following things:
[12:35] <marco_g> 1) What do you think of all the existing graphical bootloaders (patches for GRUB Legacy, lilo)
[12:35] <marco_g> 2) What can we do to make a fancy interface?
[12:35] <ogra> marco_g, VESA wont be in ubuntu
[12:36] <marco_g> ogra: What do you mean?
[12:36] <ogra> we have to bear with vga16fb
[12:36] <marco_g> ogra: Why?
[12:36] <ogra> we wont accept VESA in ubuntu
[12:36] <marco_g> Why not?
[12:36] <ogra> because suspend/resume doesnt work on the majority ofsystems with VESA
[12:36] <ogra> thats why usplash is vga16fb
[12:37] <marco_g> ogra: In that case ubuntu can use the other video drivers in GRUB2.
[12:37] <marco_g> ogra: Why doesn't suspend/resume work?
[12:38] <marco_g> And why is that a problem for a bootloader?
[12:38] <ogra> marco_g, talk to mjg59 about that.... i'm not the suspend/resume guy :)
[12:38] <marco_g> Can you point me to some discussion about that topic?
[12:38] <marco_g> ok, I will :)
[12:38] <ogra> there was one on the ubuntu-devel list
[12:39] <ogra> where he explained it a bit...
[12:42] <marco_g> ok
[12:59] <ogra> marco_g, mjg59 is in #ubuntu-devel currently
[01:05] <AndyFitz> marco_g   aaahh this is what I remember from a conversation from mjg59
[01:06] <AndyFitz> hes the fun police when it comes to non-vga16fb
[01:06] <AndyFitz> 1 I think the existing implementations are better than what we have now .  but id like vesa  ( although its not going to happen )
[01:07] <ogra> i'm not sure if it applies for the bootloader too though... but you will need to switch to vga16fb as soon as the kernel is responsible... that will look like crap...
[01:07] <AndyFitz> 2 id really like it to use the same format ( visually )  as the Usplash bootloader  when displaying text / using colours from the palette 
[01:17] <marco_g> ogra: I have /query'ed him. It won't be a problem if we switch back to VGA before booting the kernel.
[01:19] <ogra> it will look very ugly :) 
[01:20] <marco_g> I do not know :)
[01:22] <ogra> switching from full color to 16 color will look ugly :) 
[01:25] <marco_g> Right.
[01:25] <marco_g> But I think 16 colors are also possible from GRUB using the vga driver.
[01:25] <marco_g> Not that I would use it myself. :)
[01:26] <ogra> heh
[01:27] <ogra> 16 colors look ok if you got a high resolution :) but we only have 640x480 available ...
[01:27] <marco_g> Right...
[01:27] <ogra> so you get hit by the dithering right in the face *hudder*
[01:28] <marco_g> Hi-res 16 colors is also VESA.
[01:28] <marco_g> Well, I assume ubuntu will use high res, 32 bits colors on other non-VESA systems. :)
[01:29] <marco_g> PPC, etc.
[01:31] <marco_g> But if you guys have any suggestions about a nice interface, please contact me (IRC or metgerards@student.han.nl) or the GRUB developers (grub-devel@gnu.org, you have to be subscribed before you can post :-/)
[01:31] <AndyFitz> ogra,  well not really dithering  just the biliniear blurring
[01:32] <ogra> heh, yes
[01:32] <ogra> ugliness... in any case :)
[01:32] <AndyFitz> marco_g  fore the artTeam preferred stuff  it would really be cool to be the same as Usplash.   as far as text  font layout positioning and colours
[01:34] <marco_g> AndyFitz: Do you have any screenshots of that?
[01:34] <ogra> marco_g, there is no artwork yet
[01:35] <ogra> just a placeholder....
[01:35] <AndyFitz> marco_g,  sadly no because Usplash isnt finished.  it would be best to talk to mjg59    but I can do a mockup
[01:35] <AndyFitz> at 640x480 16
[01:36] <ogra> i wonder if we could have a widescreen image that gets cut down dynamically to 640x480.... on my widescreen display it looks terrible stretched
[01:51] <AndyFitz> ogra,  I have a widescreen too.  matthew said it would be possible
[01:52] <AndyFitz> for Usplash.  but this was a long time ago ( mentioned at UDU )
[01:52] <ogra> great :)