| mpt | How to charge a documentation project? With a battering ram, and a large quantity of superb writing ready to use. | 12:10 |
|---|---|---|
| ranto | my english is not very good, what i mean is how to price it | 12:11 |
| ranto | i have to write a java tutorial with full copyright | 12:12 |
| ranto | and i don't know how much is the standard man/hour price | 12:13 |
| HrdwrBoB | ranto: in au we quoted $90/hr for coding | 12:15 |
| HrdwrBoB | settled at $75/hr | 12:15 |
| mpt | sorry for the joke | 12:18 |
| ranto | wow thats a lot :D | 12:18 |
| ranto | its ok, no problem! | 12:18 |
| HrdwrBoB | ranto: yeah it depends on the job | 12:18 |
| === avanspronsen [n=andrewv@69.156.155.107] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| ranto | it's a java tutorial for japan | 12:19 |
| HrdwrBoB | but if you're experienced and delivering a finished product on a short contract basis | 12:19 |
| HrdwrBoB | you have to make your money somehow | 12:19 |
| ranto | i've 20 days to finish the job | 12:19 |
| === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| ranto | HrdwrBoB: us dolars? | 12:25 |
| Madpilot | Australian dollars, I'm assuming - I think HrdwrBoB is in .au | 12:30 |
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| jsgotangco | jdub, ping? | 05:04 |
| jdub | pong | 05:12 |
| jsgotangco | jdub, who built/updated the install guide in the breezy iso? | 05:13 |
| jdub | no idea | 05:13 |
| jsgotangco | hmm ask the list i guess? | 05:14 |
| jsgotangco | its the debian installer doc with an ubuntu flavour | 05:14 |
| mgalvin | jdub: Kamion i think | 05:15 |
| jdub | jsgotangco: it's probably colin | 05:15 |
| jsgotangco | most probably | 05:15 |
| jsgotangco | ill ask colin later | 05:16 |
| === mpt [n=mpt@200-153-203-88.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mpt | Morning all | 05:25 |
| mgalvin | morning mpt | 05:26 |
| === avanspronsen [n=andrewv@69.156.155.107] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | mpt, looked at your UbuntuHelp on baz | 05:35 |
| jsgotangco | what needs to be done there? | 05:35 |
| mpt | hi jsgotangco, pong :-) | 05:40 |
| mpt | thanks for looking at it | 05:40 |
| mpt | How recently did you merge? I mirrored quite a lot of changes about 14 hours ago | 05:41 |
| jsgotangco | i haven't merged yet | 05:41 |
| jsgotangco | im just followed your steps in the wiki | 05:41 |
| mpt | ah, ok | 05:42 |
| jsgotangco | since i don't know yet what needs to be done, most of the issues you raised are yelp stylesheets | 05:42 |
| mpt | So, baz merge mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0 should get you my latest changes | 05:43 |
| mpt | Yes, stylesheet niceties | 05:43 |
| mpt | So, what else is missing | 05:44 |
| mpt | The Breezy-specific stuff, basically | 05:44 |
| mpt | Since I only had the time+machine to consider installing Breezy as of Friday | 05:44 |
| mpt | and afaict the installer CDs have been pretty dodgy since then | 05:45 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 05:45 |
| mpt | So, stuff about setting up a firewall | 05:45 |
| mpt | and connecting to a wireless network | 05:45 |
| mpt | Actually, connecting to the Internet in general | 05:45 |
| mpt | I could find practically no information about that at all | 05:45 |
| jsgotangco | so we're aiming for a Yelp-aware doc? | 05:45 |
| mpt | except for the WiFiHowTo or whatever it's called on the wiki | 05:46 |
| mpt | I'm not sure what you mean by yelp-aware | 05:46 |
| jsgotangco | if it opens up in Yelp | 05:47 |
| jsgotangco | because Yelp is pretty dumb in other docbook tags | 05:47 |
| jsgotangco | sime | 05:47 |
| jsgotangco | some | 05:47 |
| mpt | yeah, I noticed | 05:48 |
| mpt | The to-do list on the wiki page are my biggest gripes | 05:48 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm | 05:51 |
| jsgotangco | is ubuntu-help my branch then? | 05:51 |
| mpt | Type "baz tree-version" (without quotes) | 05:51 |
| mpt | that'll tell you what your branch is | 05:51 |
| jsgotangco | jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz tree-version | 05:52 |
| jsgotangco | jgotangco@gmail.com/help--0 | 05:52 |
| mpt | ok | 05:52 |
| jsgotangco | err | 05:52 |
| jsgotangco | where is this? | 05:52 |
| mpt | Where on disk? | 05:53 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 05:53 |
| jsgotangco | ubuntu-help? | 05:53 |
| mpt | If you followed the instructions on the wiki it's in an ubuntu-help directory, yes | 05:53 |
| jsgotangco | ok what's the purpose of the archives folder then? | 05:54 |
| mpt | The archives folder records the various archives you have | 05:54 |
| mpt | For example in my ~/archives I have records for mpt@canonical.com (my Launchpad work) and mpt@myrealbox.com (my Ubuntu Help work) | 05:54 |
| jsgotangco | ok so actual editing is done on ubuntu-help right? | 05:55 |
| jsgotangco | i see | 05:55 |
| mpt | Yes, you just edit the files inside ubuntu-help | 05:55 |
| mpt | You can use "baz diff" to see what you've done | 05:55 |
| Flonne | Unpaid overtime == bad. | 05:55 |
| mpt | ("baz diff | less" if you've done a lot) | 05:55 |
| Flonne | I'll get back to work now. | 05:56 |
| mpt | heya Flonne | 05:56 |
| Flonne | Hi. | 05:56 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 05:56 |
| mpt | What kind of job? | 05:56 |
| Flonne | Techwriting, system document evaluation, and Python prototyping. | 05:56 |
| mpt | Someday I'll be good enough to be a professional tech writer | 05:57 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, so if i do some changes, i request you to merge to my archive? | 05:57 |
| === mpt realizes he was actually a professional tech writer once, earning NZ$15/hour | ||
| mpt | jsgotangco: Correct | 05:57 |
| === Flonne isn't making too much... but all work is done with FreeBSD, so it's fine. | ||
| mpt | you commit them (baz commit -s "summary") and mirror them (baz archive-mirror), and then I can merge from them | 05:58 |
| mpt | And the same for my changes, you merge from those | 05:59 |
| mpt | Providing you agree with them, of course :-) | 05:59 |
| mpt | Flonne: How's the hand? | 06:00 |
| Flonne | It's better. I also got a chance to play with Yelp and XSL at work, so hopefully I'll find the problem soon. | 06:02 |
| Flonne | Thanks for asking. | 06:02 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, i like the structure | 06:02 |
| mpt | as in the sections and subsections? | 06:03 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 06:03 |
| mpt | Modelled loosely on the Gnome User Guide | 06:04 |
| jsgotangco | i noticed..the it still needs a lot of work though | 06:05 |
| mpt | yes | 06:05 |
| jsgotangco | i dont think this can be done by documentation freeze | 06:05 |
| jsgotangco | but its a nice start | 06:05 |
| mpt | Well, I guess that depends partly on the number of contributors :-) | 06:06 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 06:06 |
| jsgotangco | i'd like to work on it and learn baz more on the process | 06:06 |
| Flonne | It could be done if existing sources are mined for information and a few editors refine the content... | 06:06 |
| jsgotangco | Flonne, yeah we can pull info from the gnome user guide | 06:06 |
| jsgotangco | some from the faq guide being worked on and just detail it further | 06:07 |
| mpt | For me, where I've been writing topics the same as covered in the GUG, I'm pretty sure it's been faster for me to write from scratch | 06:08 |
| mpt | but I guess it might be different for other people | 06:08 |
| jsgotangco | i'll see what i can hack up later and request for a merge when i see you | 06:08 |
| mpt | excellent, thanks | 06:08 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, ok say we have 10 contributors, who manages the merge? only 1 person? | 06:09 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: How long ago did you grab the archive? | 06:09 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, last night, updated today | 06:09 |
| mpt | ok | 06:10 |
| Flonne | baz up ~= svn up? | 06:10 |
| mpt | No, there's no mainline for "up" to work from | 06:10 |
| jsgotangco | everyone has a copy | 06:10 |
| jsgotangco | there is no server copy | 06:10 |
| mpt | right | 06:10 |
| Flonne | Ah. | 06:10 |
| Flonne | I'll need to read about this system tomorrow. | 06:11 |
| jsgotangco | so it can be a bit confusing at the start | 06:11 |
| mpt | What usually happens, as far as I know, is that two or three people end up being the hub of the wheel | 06:11 |
| jsgotangco | the rest would request then | 06:11 |
| mpt | They pull in contributions from others | 06:11 |
| mpt | and constantly merge between themselves | 06:11 |
| jsgotangco | how is conflict resolved? | 06:11 |
| mpt | It helps if they're in different timezones :-) | 06:11 |
| jsgotangco | via the merge? | 06:11 |
| mpt | Yes | 06:11 |
| mpt | When you do a merge, it'll tell you if there were conflicts | 06:12 |
| mpt | the conflicted files will be prefixed with "C" in the listing instead of "M" | 06:12 |
| mpt | When you open them, you can see conflict markers which look roughly like this | 06:12 |
| mpt | <<<<<< TREE | 06:12 |
| mpt | your stuff here | 06:12 |
| mpt | ====== | 06:12 |
| mpt | the stuff you merged from here | 06:12 |
| mpt | >>>>>> MERGE-SOURCE | 06:13 |
| mpt | So for each of those sections, you can decide which bits should be retained | 06:13 |
| mpt | edit the files as appropriate | 06:13 |
| mpt | and once you've done that for all the conflicts, "baz resolved --all" | 06:13 |
| jsgotangco | hmm ok if you're merging my changes you'd do baz merge jgotangco@gmail.com/help--0 as well? | 06:14 |
| mpt | exactly | 06:14 |
| jsgotangco | i dont have a supermirror | 06:14 |
| mpt | You don't have an account on the supermirror? | 06:14 |
| Flonne | Hmm... 123 updates for Breezy today. Maybe I should revert. | 06:14 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: So is your archive public at all | 06:14 |
| jsgotangco | it won't let me do it if i follow your wiki | 06:14 |
| mpt | ? | 06:14 |
| mpt | really? | 06:15 |
| Flonne | amd64 | 06:15 |
| jsgotangco | jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz make-archive -m jgotangco@gmail.com sftp://jgotangco@gmail.com@mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/jgotangco@gmail.com | 06:15 |
| jsgotangco | Permission denied (publickey). | 06:15 |
| jsgotangco | Error reading from server | 06:15 |
| jsgotangco | jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ | 06:15 |
| mpt | hmmmm | 06:15 |
| mpt | What's your Launchpad account name? | 06:15 |
| mpt | Flonne: That might be a good thing :-) | 06:16 |
| jsgotangco | jgotangco@gmail.com | 06:16 |
| Flonne | The first sixty were Xorg input updates. That's a lot, considering xserver-xorg isn't one of the packages to be upgraded. | 06:17 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: Oh, you need your SSH key registered with Launchpad | 06:18 |
| jsgotangco | i see | 06:18 |
| jsgotangco | ahh | 06:18 |
| mpt | I think that's the problem | 06:18 |
| jsgotangco | i haven't done that | 06:18 |
| mpt | I'll put that on the wiki page | 06:18 |
| mpt | sorry, I went over those instructions with the lead baz hacker, but we both missed that step :-) | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | You need to register an SSH key with Launchpad to be able to publish your Bazaar code branches in the Bazaar supermirror. | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | right | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | so that's why | 06:19 |
| mpt | Flonne: So now would be a bad time to install Breezy from scratch? | 06:24 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: wiki page fixed. | 06:25 |
| jsgotangco | alright ill try it out again now | 06:26 |
| Flonne | It's still holding back three packages... including Python. | 06:27 |
| jsgotangco | ill just make a small edit and commit | 06:28 |
| Flonne | I'm not sure about i386, but I'm going to replace my 64-bit Gentoo partition with Hoary so I can work. | 06:28 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: Committing you can do anyway, it's the archive-mirror that's the test :-) | 06:29 |
| === jeffsch [n=jeffsch@fatwire-204-126.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | mpt, archive-mirror goes into my supermirror right? | 06:30 |
| mpt | goes to your account on the Supermirror, yes | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | wooo Seg fault | 06:31 |
| mpt | erk | 06:31 |
| jsgotangco | jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz archive-mirror | 06:31 |
| jsgotangco | Enter passphrase for key '/home/jsg/.ssh/id_rsa': | 06:31 |
| jsgotangco | Segmentation fault | 06:31 |
| jsgotangco | so that's the test :) | 06:31 |
| mpt | oh man | 06:31 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, pong | 06:31 |
| jsgotangco | wow | 06:32 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, where have you been? roaming in the real world lately? :) | 06:32 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, at my gf's place | 06:32 |
| Burgundavia | which means my machine stays on | 06:32 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, my laptop is being held captive by customs | 06:32 |
| Burgundavia | ouch | 06:32 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, if they are asking for money, canonical should cover it. But you need to pay up front | 06:33 |
| jsgotangco | no worries though, claire to the rescue | 06:33 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, if i always get a segfault, i wont be able to mirror and you can't merge :) | 06:33 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: I realize that | 06:34 |
| mpt | I ... don't know why that could be happening | 06:34 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: Try using the ssh-add command | 06:35 |
| mpt | and then baz archive-mirror | 06:35 |
| mpt | That'll tell us what's segfaulting, ssh or baz | 06:35 |
| jsgotangco | i still segfault on baz | 06:36 |
| mpt | oh, sucks | 06:36 |
| jsgotangco | the authentication agent works | 06:37 |
| mpt | It seems pretty much all the Bazaar hackers are asleep/busy | 06:40 |
| mpt | Try asking in #bazaar in a few hours | 06:40 |
| mpt | Sorry I can't help you further | 06:41 |
| mpt | No response in there at the moment. | 06:41 |
| jsgotangco | its ok i'll just grab a bite first | 06:42 |
| mpt | There's always e-mail :-) | 06:43 |
| mpt | By default, "baz diff" gives you the diff since your last commit | 06:43 |
| jsgotangco | yes i did that | 06:43 |
| jsgotangco | its really nice | 06:43 |
| mpt | but "baz diff mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0" will give you the diff between yours and mine, regardless of whether you've committed or mirrored or whatever | 06:43 |
| jsgotangco | ahh | 06:44 |
| mpt | Also good for examining someone's changes to see if you want to merge them | 06:44 |
| jsgotangco | i see your 14 patches | 06:44 |
| mpt | It takes quite a bit longer than a normal diff, because it's comparing across the network | 06:44 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: Do you know how to use gdb? | 06:49 |
| === mpt wonders if Flonne will have the same problem | ||
| Flonne | What problem? | 06:52 |
| Flonne | Yelp is still not accepting XSL, but I'll continue reading while downloading Hoary. | 06:53 |
| mpt | The baz problem | 06:54 |
| mpt | Though from "downloading Hoary" I guess you have slightly bigger issues to deal with :-) | 06:55 |
| Flonne | Well, I could install it from Knoppix, but I really want to get something done. :) | 06:55 |
| jeffsch | mpt: I get Permission denied (publickey) when trying to create supermirror | 06:59 |
| jeffsch | is that an ssh problem? | 06:59 |
| === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mpt | jeffsch: I've just updated the instructions to mention that you need to register your SSH key with Launchpad | 07:00 |
| mpt | jsgotangco had the same problem | 07:00 |
| mpt | soryr | 07:00 |
| mpt | sorry, even | 07:00 |
| jeffsch | hmmm... i see that, but there is no "SSH Keys" on the right of my launchpad page | 07:00 |
| mpt | yes there is, I can see it from here | 07:01 |
| mpt | https://launchpad.net/people/jeffsch | 07:01 |
| mpt | between "Bugs Reported" and "GPG Keys" | 07:01 |
| jeffsch | ahhh. silly me... i was looking at the launchpad homepage, and not MY launchpad page :) | 07:02 |
| mpt | ok, good point | 07:02 |
| jeffsch | might also be useful to mention that "baz make-archive -m your@e-mail.address etc etc" is all one line, and not two lines | 07:05 |
| mpt | done. | 07:07 |
| mpt | ok, 2am, I'd better sleep or I'll be late for work yet again | 07:07 |
| Flonne | I don't seem to have encountered any problems while setting up a baz account. | 07:08 |
| jsgotangco | creating a supermirror relies on an ssh key | 07:09 |
| mpt | Flonne: I meant when doing archive-mirror | 07:09 |
| jeffsch | ok, i have to generate an ssh key: which is better - rsa or dsa? | 07:11 |
| Flonne | I'd need something to commit. I'll do that at work. You need sleep. | 07:11 |
| jdub | jeffsch: dsa | 07:11 |
| === mpt commits himself to unconsciousness | ||
| mpt | 'night, people | 07:12 |
| highvoltage | night mpt | 07:12 |
| Flonne | G'night. | 07:12 |
| jeffsch | night | 07:12 |
| jsgotangco | night | 07:13 |
| jsgotangco | mpt, thanks | 07:13 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: So if you want to, you can e-mail a diff | 07:13 |
| jsgotangco | ok | 07:13 |
| mpt | if you get no luck in #bazaar | 07:13 |
| jeffsch | jdub: how long for the ssh public key to work its way through the launchpad system? | 07:19 |
| jeffsch | i still get Permission denied (publickey). | 07:19 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 07:19 |
| jsgotangco | it just worked for me instantly | 07:19 |
| jsgotangco | after uploading my ssh key | 07:19 |
| jeffsch | doh! my bad. hold on a sec... | 07:20 |
| jeffsch | ok. it worked. I only changed two of the three "your@e-mail.address". tsk tsk | 07:23 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 07:24 |
| jeffsch | jsgotangco: what up with styleguide? a while ago you said something about making pdf available | 07:26 |
| jeffsch | i want to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide with appropriate info | 07:27 |
| jsgotangco | ouch | 07:27 |
| jsgotangco | i havent fop'ed it yet! | 07:28 |
| jsgotangco | sorry | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | np | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | i can prolly get around to it myself. | 07:28 |
| jsgotangco | and i don't have anywhere to put the PDF either | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | only thing is, where to put it? | 07:28 |
| jeffsch | oh | 07:28 |
| jsgotangco | should have been on the linode but only mdke has access to it at the moment for all i know | 07:29 |
| jeffsch | ok. so next time you see mdke, ask him about it - i will ask too | 07:29 |
| jsgotangco | ok | 07:30 |
| jdub | jeffsch: shuoldn't take long at all | 07:30 |
| jeffsch | yeah... turned out to be my fault | 07:31 |
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| === Burgundavia has finally cleared his mail backlog | ||
| Madpilot | how long did that take? | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | a couple of hours | 09:37 |
| Madpilot | not too bad, then | 09:37 |
| Burgundavia | only 319 | 09:37 |
| Madpilot | must have been lots of glance-and-delete to get thru 319 in only a couple hours | 09:39 |
| Burgundavia | most are bug email | 09:39 |
| Madpilot | are you on #ubuntu now? following Determinist's "what Linux should do" rant? | 09:40 |
| Burgundavia | yes, but not actively following it | 09:41 |
| Madpilot | can you send me a gmail invite? they still don't seem to be accepting regular signups | 09:42 |
| jsgotangco | i can send you one | 09:43 |
| Madpilot | jsgotangco: that was actually meant for Burgundavia, but whatever! yh728@victoria.tc.ca - you two can race to see which gets to me first... ;) | 09:43 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot, done | 09:43 |
| jsgotangco | there | 09:43 |
| Madpilot | Burgundavia: thanks | 09:43 |
| Burgundavia | bloody hell. Meeting in 6 hours | 09:49 |
| Madpilot | that's early... | 09:49 |
| jsgotangco | what meeting? | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | 14:00 UTC | 09:49 |
| Burgundavia | oh wait, 1 day and 6 hours | 09:50 |
| Madpilot | bit of a difference. still too early in the morning | 09:50 |
| Burgundavia | need to be up early that morning anyway | 09:50 |
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| === Seveas [n=seveas@ksl403-uva-141.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mdke | jsgotangco, yo | 10:54 |
| jsgotangco | hi | 10:55 |
| mdke | aha | 10:55 |
| mdke | hello | 10:55 |
| mdke | saw a highlight from you about the linode? | 10:55 |
| jsgotangco | been busy? | 10:55 |
| mdke | yeah | 10:55 |
| mdke | looking for a place to live | 10:55 |
| jsgotangco | oh yeah | 10:55 |
| === mpt [n=mpt@200-153-203-88.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mdke | wassup? | 10:55 |
| jsgotangco | well me an jeffsch are stumped on where to put our PDF on styleguide | 10:55 |
| mdke | ok | 10:55 |
| mdke | what are the options? | 10:56 |
| mdke | build/gnome? | 10:56 |
| jsgotangco | make pdf on styleguide | 10:56 |
| jsgotangco | but it needs apache fop | 10:56 |
| mdke | what is that? | 10:56 |
| mdke | it needs it to build? | 10:57 |
| jsgotangco | http://xml.apache.org/fop/ | 10:57 |
| jsgotangco | just the pdf | 10:57 |
| jsgotangco | the make html works | 10:57 |
| mdke | ok is this apache fop in Ubuntu? | 10:57 |
| jsgotangco | nope | 10:58 |
| mdke | damn | 10:58 |
| mdke | so what do we do? | 10:58 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 10:59 |
| jsgotangco | i can make a PDF on oxygen | 10:59 |
| jsgotangco | and just upload it | 10:59 |
| mdke | hmm | 10:59 |
| mdke | it would be better to have it automated on the server tho no? | 10:59 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 11:00 |
| jsgotangco | but jeff's script needs fop | 11:00 |
| mdke | if we can get it building and into the "make all" then it will get copied with the rest | 11:00 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, we can install fop on the server? | 11:00 |
| jsgotangco | you have root | 11:00 |
| mdke | yes, and henrik | 11:01 |
| jsgotangco | we'd like to release StyleGuide | 11:01 |
| mdke | i'll install it then | 11:01 |
| jsgotangco | ok | 11:01 |
| mdke | will you put the make target into "all"? | 11:01 |
| jsgotangco | all our docs? | 11:02 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, there is currently a make all in the /gnome/ folder | 11:02 |
| mdke | if you can add the styleguide, it will get built automatically with the others | 11:02 |
| mdke | actually it doesn't make sense to put it under gnome/ | 11:03 |
| jsgotangco | i can try im not too familiar with the other scripts, only jeff's | 11:03 |
| mdke | i can do a separate cronjob if you like | 11:03 |
| mdke | but it would be best to have one make target that builds both html and pdf, what do you think? | 11:03 |
| jsgotangco | sure that's the best route actually i will just compare the scripts that we have | 11:04 |
| mdke | ok | 11:05 |
| mdke | leave the existing ones, and make one that calls both? | 11:05 |
| jsgotangco | well that should be our end goal | 11:05 |
| jsgotangco | is that linode in hoary? | 11:05 |
| mdke | it runs hoary | 11:07 |
| === mdke looks for instructions on how to install fop | ||
| jsgotangco | ackkk styelsheet borkage | 11:08 |
| mdke | where should I install fop? | 11:10 |
| mdke | looks like I just have to untar the binary somewhere convenient, if you tell me the right address for your scripts, I'll do it there | 11:12 |
| jsgotangco | im trying to remember where i put it then | 11:12 |
| mdke | ok cool | 11:13 |
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| mdke | i've changed my mind | 11:18 |
| mdke | i'm gonna install from source, that way all the paths should be right | 11:18 |
| jsgotangco | wha? | 11:18 |
| mdke | the make pdf script seems to need fop.sh, so building from source should ensure that that script is installed in the right place | 11:19 |
| mdke | or no? | 11:19 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 11:19 |
| mdke | actually... building it requires java | 11:20 |
| === mdke goes back to the binary | ||
| mdke | jsgotangco, lemme know where you have it installed and I'll install it now | 11:20 |
| mdke | also, do a "locate fop.sh" | 11:20 |
| mdke | looks like I need java anyway | 11:22 |
| mdke | jeez is there no other way to build pdf? | 11:23 |
| Burgundavia | xml2pdf? | 11:23 |
| mdke | i dunno anything about it | 11:24 |
| Burgundavia | part of the xml2 package | 11:25 |
| mdke | that does sound a bit more convenient | 11:26 |
| mdke | jsgotangco? | 11:26 |
| Burgundavia | just call it as part of a script | 11:26 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco has used it for edubuntu stuff I think | 11:26 |
| jsgotangco | sorry i was downstairs | 11:26 |
| jsgotangco | no i used a Java ide for that | 11:27 |
| mdke | if we can do xml->pdf without installing java and a non-packaged library, that would be a bit more convenient no? | 11:27 |
| jsgotangco | it should be | 11:27 |
| jsgotangco | i'm trying to install the binary on this machine and it just fails | 11:27 |
| mdke | ok can you let me know via email? maybe Sean will be able to help | 11:28 |
| jsgotangco | ok i'll just email later | 11:28 |
| mdke | i'll set up the server this evening if so | 11:29 |
| mdke | i'll get it building html already | 11:29 |
| mdke | (also if you do a make all target, that would rock) | 11:29 |
| mdke | argh | 11:30 |
| mdke | what does he use for building the html? | 11:30 |
| mdke | make: xmllint: Command not found | 11:30 |
| === mdke grumbles | ||
| jsgotangco | on what? | 11:30 |
| jsgotangco | styleguide? | 11:30 |
| jsgotangco | make html works for me | 11:30 |
| mdke | yeah | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | without any other app | 11:31 |
| mdke | seems not to use the same tool as the other docs | 11:31 |
| mdke | it uses something the linode doesn't have installed yet | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | its basic docbook stylesheets | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-doc/styleguide$ make html | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | xmllint --dtdvalid /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid styleguide.xml | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | xsltproc -o ../build/styleguide/styleguide.html /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/docbook.xsl styleguide.xml | 11:31 |
| mdke | dude | 11:32 |
| mdke | the other docs build, this doesn't. So it _must_ be using a different tool to them | 11:32 |
| mdke | because the linode doesn't have the xmllint progra installed | 11:32 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 11:32 |
| mdke | i'll try and install it if you like, but it would seem sensible to build all the docs the same way | 11:32 |
| jsgotangco | what is the syntax of the other docs? | 11:32 |
| mdke | not sure | 11:33 |
| mdke | you have to look at the makefiles | 11:33 |
| mdke | in gnome/ and kde/ | 11:33 |
| Burgundavia | night all | 11:33 |
| jsgotangco | hmm ok | 11:33 |
| mdke | jsgotangco, anyway for now I've installed xmllint and it works | 11:34 |
| jsgotangco | let me check this, i see some stuff on themake file | 11:34 |
| mdke | ok I've set up a cronjob to build the styleguide and serve it | 11:38 |
| mdke | for now it is just doing "make html", when you set up a "make all" i'll change it | 11:38 |
| mdke | http://65.19.178.132/styleguide/ | 11:38 |
| jsgotangco | ok i'll test it first | 11:38 |
| mdke | cool, let me know via email | 11:38 |
| mdke | looks great btw | 11:39 |
| jsgotangco | hmm there's make sg | 11:40 |
| jsgotangco | but no pdf | 11:40 |
| jsgotangco | its all html make | 11:40 |
| mdke | ? | 11:40 |
| mdke | there is a make pdf in the styleguide folder | 11:40 |
| mdke | if you get jeffsch on it, he'll sort it out I'm sure | 11:41 |
| jsgotangco | no in the big makefile in gnome | 11:41 |
| mdke | ah | 11:41 |
| jsgotangco | he probably mixed up on the 2 scripts | 11:41 |
| mdke | if I were you I'd remove references to the styleguide in gnome/ because it is separate really | 11:41 |
| jsgotangco | and forgot about the big script | 11:41 |
| mdke | that is probably deprecated | 11:41 |
| mdke | best thing is to have a "make all" target in the styleguide/ makefile | 11:41 |
| jsgotangco | make html on styleguide goes into build as well? | 11:42 |
| mdke | yes | 11:42 |
| mdke | OUTFILE = ../build/styleguide/styleguide | 11:42 |
| mdke | it goes into build/styleguide | 11:42 |
| jsgotangco | right | 11:42 |
| jsgotangco | so that works | 11:42 |
| jsgotangco | hrmm | 11:42 |
| mdke | yep | 11:42 |
| jsgotangco | wonder what is wrong with the other make i did | 11:43 |
| mdke | we can just email jeffsch | 11:43 |
| mdke | maybe ask if he can build the pdf without using fop, via some other tool that doesn't require installing java | 11:43 |
| jsgotangco | it built nicely on my ide though :) | 11:44 |
| mdke | and then if he can do a make all target | 11:44 |
| mdke | sure | 11:44 |
| mdke | if there is no other way to build pdf, then we will have to install java and fop on the server | 11:44 |
| mdke | i'm sure Sean will know the best way | 11:44 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 11:44 |
| mdke | maybe investigate this xml2pdf thing | 11:45 |
| jsgotangco | ok i'm going out for a walk first | 11:46 |
| mdke | cool | 11:46 |
| mdke | see ya later | 11:46 |
| jsgotangco | i've been in this room for hours | 11:46 |
| jsgotangco | nothing else to do | 11:46 |
| mdke | heh | 11:46 |
| mdke | see you on email | 11:46 |
| mdke | need to go and look at some more houses | 11:46 |
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | This channel tries to follow the tradition of the #gnome-love channel on irc.gimp.net, all new comers and questions are welcomed, as long as you follow the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first. | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by mdke at Mon Jun 20 20:43:03 2005 | ||
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| mgalvin | morning all | 03:31 |
| rob^ | morning | 03:32 |
| rob^ | doesnt look like there is going to be enough people to approve membership to CC at this meeting | 03:32 |
| rob^ | dam it | 03:32 |
| mgalvin | for who | 03:33 |
| rob^ | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda | 03:33 |
| rob^ | I think they need 3 acutal members or something | 03:33 |
| mgalvin | did they already speak to you? | 03:33 |
| rob^ | I spoke to them | 03:34 |
| mgalvin | hm, this meeting was to early in the am for me to get to all of it, did anyone give you +1 | 03:37 |
| mgalvin | who was around | 03:37 |
| rob^ | I asked, the said "go for it" | 03:37 |
| rob^ | its still going now | 03:38 |
| mgalvin | i am there to +1 for you | 03:43 |
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| mgalvin | they are doing members now | 03:43 |
| rob^ | thanks | 03:43 |
| rob^ | yep | 03:43 |
| jsgotangco | members? | 03:43 |
| mgalvin | think they just called on u | 03:43 |
| mgalvin | CC meeting | 03:43 |
| jsgotangco | oh there's a CC now? | 03:44 |
| rob^ | JonathanJesse | 03:44 |
| rob^ | yep | 03:44 |
| mgalvin | yup | 03:44 |
| jsgotangco | i forgot its tuesday | 03:44 |
| mgalvin | i missed the first half, to early for me | 03:45 |
| mpt | hi jsgotangco, any luck with baz? | 03:45 |
| jsgotangco | i still segfault | 03:46 |
| jsgotangco | i didnt see the baz people online either | 03:46 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: Did you get a backtrace? | 03:46 |
| jsgotangco | err why should i do that? | 03:47 |
| mpt | to debug the crash with | 03:48 |
| mpt | or more precisely, for the Bazaar hackers to debug the crash with | 03:48 |
| jsgotangco | baz makes a log on that? | 03:48 |
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| jjesse | morning | 04:17 |
| rob^ | morning | 04:17 |
| jjesse | did my commit to svn come across? i made some changes to kuserguide, but haven't seen the normal email (i'm subscribed to that list that sends out changes) | 04:25 |
| mpt | jsgotangco: No, you need to use gdb for it, that's why I asked you earlier if you knew how to use gdb | 04:25 |
| rob^ | jjesse, yes | 04:26 |
| rob^ | 1595 | 04:26 |
| jjesse | thansk rob^ | 04:26 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | i only see enrico's | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | ahh | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | wait | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | right | 04:27 |
| jsgotangco | mpt: i'll check it later then | 04:28 |
| jsgotangco | im getting a bit sleepy | 04:28 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 04:28 |
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| jsgotangco | good night | 05:53 |
| rob^ | night all | 05:53 |
| mgalvin | g'night | 05:54 |
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| rwabel | @RobertStoffers: why did you remove the ubuntuguide link? It's still a ressource! Could u next time comment the change you made | 06:34 |
| rwabel | why isn't it possible to revert the last change on the UserDocumentaion? | 06:34 |
| highvoltage | rwabel: ubuntuguide is not seen as a reliable link, it also doesn't offer explanations. | 06:34 |
| mdke | rwabel, it is always possible to revert | 06:39 |
| mgalvin | highvoltage: why is ubuntuguide not seen as reliable? "many" people have found it "very" useful | 06:40 |
| mdke | it is a good link and should be there | 06:40 |
| mdke | and it is especially bad that there was no comment made when editing that page | 06:40 |
| highvoltage | the ubuntu community says that ubuntu-guide should not be recommended. it says so somewhere in the wiki too. | 06:41 |
| mgalvin | i don't understand why people, especially the nun don't like ubuntuguide, so many new users have stayed with ubuntu b/c of it | 06:41 |
| highvoltage | i'll search for the link quickly... | 06:41 |
| mgalvin | yea, the nun | 06:41 |
| mdke | highvoltage, the ubuntu community? | 06:41 |
| mdke | that depends how you define community dude | 06:41 |
| mgalvin | just the nun say that iirc | 06:41 |
| highvoltage | mdke: true | 06:41 |
| mgalvin | most of the community absolutely love it | 06:42 |
| mdke | if you include the thousands and thousands of users of the ubuntuguide, you're gonna struggle to make your point | 06:42 |
| mdke | although we have some problems with the guide, i don't hesitate to recommend it for many things | 06:42 |
| mdke | rwabel, reverted | 06:43 |
| highvoltage | i don't know ubuntuguide, so i don't have any gripes with it. i know that i've seen many, many times, that people on the ubuntu irc channels say that you should avoid ubuntuguide. | 06:43 |
| mdke | yeah for some things it is not great | 06:43 |
| mdke | but for others it is | 06:43 |
| mdke | people on irc channels can get a bit high and mighty sometimes | 06:44 |
| mgalvin | yea the people on #ubuntu saying that are nun members and they don't represent the majority... of course it has pros and cons but the pros seem to outweigh the cons | 06:44 |
| highvoltage | ah yes, the bot on ubuntu says this when you ask about ubuntuguide: | 06:46 |
| highvoltage | 18:45 < ubotu> somebody said ubuntuguide was a set of instructions with no explanation. Please do not advise people to use ubuntuguide. Advise https://wiki.ubuntu.com instead. The official FAQ Guide will be released with Breezy, stay tuned | 06:46 |
| mdke | bah | 06:46 |
| mdke | if I wanted to set up Samba I would use it | 06:47 |
| mdke | or something like that | 06:47 |
| mdke | as I say, they get a bit high and mighty on #ubuntu sometimes | 06:47 |
| === mdke does his third system restore in as many days | ||
| mdke | gah | 06:48 |
| mdke | mgalvin, does the faq guide need any proof reading? | 06:51 |
| mgalvin | mdke: yup | 06:51 |
| mdke | is it ready for that? | 06:51 |
| mgalvin | mostly yes, feel free to start proofing | 06:52 |
| mdke | cool | 06:53 |
| mdke | i guess the relevant sections are marked review/ | 06:53 |
| mdke | ? | 06:53 |
| mgalvin | thats the status' right? | 06:53 |
| mgalvin | no that are not marked | 06:53 |
| mdke | ah | 06:54 |
| mgalvin | just about the whole thing is done | 06:54 |
| mgalvin | java still needs to be worked, but i will have that done soon | 06:54 |
| mdke | ok marks some sections "review" and I will do a bit | 06:54 |
| mdke | marks/mark | 06:54 |
| mgalvin | ok, i will mark those as soon as i get a chance... at work right now | 06:55 |
| mdke | cool | 06:55 |
| mdke | i have plenty to do on this damn laptop but i haven't done any doc work for ages so it will be nice to do some reviewing | 06:56 |
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| jjesse | afternoon | 07:53 |
| judax | Hi | 07:55 |
| jjesse | how ofen does the preview site get updated? | 07:57 |
| rwabel | mdke: thanks for reverting, in my case there has only been revert links for the other changes | 08:15 |
| rwabel | highvoltage: doesn't matter if it doesn't offer explanations. It's another ressource. It's no bad. And there has been a long discussion about it. It's an external link and not supported by ubuntu people but it's a know ressource | 08:16 |
| highvoltage | rwabel: i didn't say it was a bad resource. | 08:18 |
| highvoltage | rwabel: other people have said so. like i said, i have no problems with ubuntu-guide. | 08:18 |
| === mpt 's head explodes at all the occurrences of the word "resource" | ||
| mgalvin | is everyone one turing into business managers ;) | 08:25 |
| jjesse | what mgalvin ? | 08:27 |
| mgalvin | calling things/people/page/anything a "resource" is manager speak | 08:28 |
| mgalvin | just joking about mpt head exploding b/c of "resource" | 08:28 |
| jjesse | grin | 08:29 |
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| === mpt transcends the paradigm | ||
| mdke | jjesse, i updated it yesterday | 08:38 |
| jjesse | * thinks outside of the box | 08:38 |
| mdke | rwabel, you have to use the revert link on the version you want to revert to | 08:38 |
| mdke | rwabel, that's why the latest version has no revert link | 08:38 |
| mdke | jjesse, once we have an address for our linode server though, it will be updated daily automatically | 08:39 |
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| mdke | jjesse, did you get the messages I just posted? not sure if you got disconnected first | 08:40 |
| jjesse | hmmm why do i always get disconnected | 08:40 |
| jjesse | last one i got was mpt transcending the paradigm | 08:40 |
| mdke | ok | 08:40 |
| mdke | [19:38:03] < mdke> jjesse, i updated it yesterday | 08:41 |
| mdke | [19:39:10] < mdke> jjesse, once we have an address for our linode server though, it will be updated daily automatically | 08:41 |
| jjesse | mdke thanks i was wondering how that worked as i had committed some changes and stuff | 08:41 |
| mdke | jjesse, if its to the kde stuff, Sean updates it quite regularly | 08:41 |
| jjesse | nod it was kde stuff | 08:42 |
| mdke | once we have an address for the linode, both kde and gnome will be updated every day tho | 08:42 |
| jjesse | is there a better preview then waiting for it to be updated? | 08:42 |
| jjesse | especially in kubuntu | 08:43 |
| mdke | you can build it yourself and view it | 08:45 |
| mdke | or view it directly as xml | 08:45 |
| mdke | to build, do "cd ubuntu-docs/trunk/kde" | 08:45 |
| mdke | then "make kall" | 08:45 |
| === mdke winces | ||
| jjesse | make all or make kall? | 08:45 |
| mdke | kall sald | 08:45 |
| mdke | sadly | 08:45 |
| jjesse | hmm thats different then normal | 08:46 |
| jjesse | umm i just got lots of errors on the make kall for kuserguide | 08:48 |
| mdke | yeah it sucks. have a look in the makefile to find out how to build individual documents | 08:48 |
| jjesse | should i just post the errors in an email to the doc list? | 08:49 |
| mdke | no | 08:50 |
| mdke | they are probably because you don't have stuff installed | 08:50 |
| jjesse | kuserguide/C/kuserguide.xml:6: parser warning : PEReference: %xinclude; not found | 08:51 |
| jjesse | %xinclude; | 08:51 |
| mdke | ah | 08:51 |
| mdke | that is an error in the xml | 08:51 |
| mdke | you should check the xml all the time as you work using the validate.sh script | 08:52 |
| mdke | e.g. | 08:52 |
| mdke | ./validate.sh kde/kuserguide/kuserguide.xml | 08:52 |
| mdke | those sorts of errors can go to the list yeah | 08:52 |
| jjesse | ok | 08:53 |
| rwabel | mdke: ah ok. thanks | 09:00 |
| rwabel | highvoltage: I know others are saying. That wasn't for me a reason to remove it. Acutally I prefer to have it as an external ressource. People can decide by themself if they want to use it or not :-) | 09:01 |
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| highvoltage | rwabel: cool bananas. | 09:20 |
| === highvoltage goes to bed... | ||
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| rwabel | highvoltage: bananas? | 09:41 |
| mpt | Who here knows about the ubuntu-doc SVN repository? | 10:00 |
| mpt | mgalvin? | 10:00 |
| mgalvin | mpt: whats up | 10:01 |
| mpt | mgalvin: Is there a "viewsvn" for the repository? | 10:02 |
| mgalvin | i don't think so | 10:08 |
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| mdke | mpt, what is viewsvn? | 10:54 |
| mpt | I don't know :-) | 10:54 |
| mdke | what do you want to do? | 10:54 |
| mpt | ddaa is currently trying to get ubuntu-doc imported into baz | 10:54 |
| mdke | ah | 10:55 |
| mpt | as Launchpad does for over 500 other projects developed in CVS/SVN | 10:55 |
| mdke | what does he want to do? | 10:55 |
| mpt | but ubuntu-doc caused a bug in the import process | 10:55 |
| mpt | otherwise it would have happened a couple of weeks ago | 10:55 |
| mdke | ok | 10:55 |
| mgalvin | viewsvn allows you to view an svn repository via a web interface | 10:56 |
| mdke | right | 10:56 |
| mgalvin | http://viewsvn.berlios.de/ | 10:56 |
| mpt | and he was trying to understand the bug | 10:56 |
| mdke | you can view it at its address | 10:56 |
| mdke | https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/ | 10:56 |
| mdke | does that help? | 10:56 |
| mdke | open in a browser | 10:56 |
| mdke | but elmo is the best person to help you understand the bug I think | 10:57 |
| mpt | yes, thanks | 10:57 |
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