[12:10] <mpt> How to charge a documentation project? With a battering ram, and a large quantity of superb writing ready to use.
[12:11] <ranto> my english is not very good, what i mean is how to price it
[12:12] <ranto> i have to write a java tutorial with full copyright
[12:13] <ranto> and i don't know how much is the standard man/hour price
[12:15] <HrdwrBoB> ranto: in au we quoted $90/hr for coding
[12:15] <HrdwrBoB> settled at $75/hr
[12:18] <mpt> sorry for the joke
[12:18] <ranto> wow thats a lot :D
[12:18] <ranto> its ok, no problem!
[12:18] <HrdwrBoB> ranto: yeah it depends on the job
[12:19] <ranto> it's a java tutorial for japan
[12:19] <HrdwrBoB> but if you're experienced and delivering a finished product on a short contract basis
[12:19] <HrdwrBoB> you have to make your money somehow
[12:19] <ranto> i've 20 days to finish the job
[12:25] <ranto> HrdwrBoB: us dolars?
[12:30] <Madpilot> Australian dollars, I'm assuming - I think HrdwrBoB is in .au
[05:04] <jsgotangco> jdub, ping?
[05:12] <jdub> pong
[05:13] <jsgotangco> jdub, who built/updated the install guide in the breezy iso?
[05:13] <jdub> no idea
[05:14] <jsgotangco> hmm ask the list i guess?
[05:14] <jsgotangco> its the debian installer doc with an ubuntu flavour
[05:15] <mgalvin> jdub: Kamion i think
[05:15] <jdub> jsgotangco: it's probably colin
[05:15] <jsgotangco> most probably
[05:16] <jsgotangco> ill ask colin later
[05:25] <mpt> Morning all
[05:26] <mgalvin> morning mpt
[05:35] <jsgotangco> mpt, looked at your UbuntuHelp on baz
[05:35] <jsgotangco> what needs to be done there?
[05:40] <mpt> hi jsgotangco, pong :-)
[05:40] <mpt> thanks for looking at it
[05:41] <mpt> How recently did you merge? I mirrored quite a lot of changes about 14 hours ago
[05:41] <jsgotangco> i haven't merged yet
[05:41] <jsgotangco> im just followed your steps in the wiki
[05:42] <mpt> ah, ok
[05:42] <jsgotangco> since i don't know yet what needs to be done, most of the issues you raised are yelp stylesheets
[05:43] <mpt> So, baz merge mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0 should get you my latest changes
[05:43] <mpt> Yes, stylesheet niceties
[05:44] <mpt> So, what else is missing
[05:44] <mpt> The Breezy-specific stuff, basically
[05:44] <mpt> Since I only had the time+machine to consider installing Breezy as of Friday
[05:45] <mpt> and afaict the installer CDs have been pretty dodgy since then
[05:45] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:45] <mpt> So, stuff about setting up a firewall
[05:45] <mpt> and connecting to a wireless network
[05:45] <mpt> Actually, connecting to the Internet in general
[05:45] <mpt> I could find practically no information about that at all
[05:45] <jsgotangco> so we're aiming for a Yelp-aware doc?
[05:46] <mpt> except for the WiFiHowTo or whatever it's called on the wiki
[05:46] <mpt> I'm not sure what you mean by yelp-aware
[05:47] <jsgotangco> if it opens up in Yelp
[05:47] <jsgotangco> because Yelp is pretty dumb in other docbook tags
[05:47] <jsgotangco> sime
[05:47] <jsgotangco> some
[05:48] <mpt> yeah, I noticed
[05:48] <mpt> The to-do list on the wiki page are my biggest gripes
[05:51] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:51] <jsgotangco> is ubuntu-help my branch then?
[05:51] <mpt> Type "baz tree-version" (without quotes)
[05:51] <mpt> that'll tell you what your branch is
[05:52] <jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz tree-version
[05:52] <jsgotangco> jgotangco@gmail.com/help--0
[05:52] <mpt> ok
[05:52] <jsgotangco> err
[05:52] <jsgotangco> where is this?
[05:53] <mpt> Where on disk?
[05:53] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:53] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-help?
[05:53] <mpt> If you followed the instructions on the wiki it's in an ubuntu-help directory, yes
[05:54] <jsgotangco> ok what's the purpose of the archives folder then?
[05:54] <mpt> The archives folder records the various archives you have
[05:54] <mpt> For example in my ~/archives I have records for mpt@canonical.com (my Launchpad work) and mpt@myrealbox.com (my Ubuntu Help work)
[05:55] <jsgotangco> ok so actual editing is done on ubuntu-help right?
[05:55] <jsgotangco> i see
[05:55] <mpt> Yes, you just edit the files inside ubuntu-help
[05:55] <mpt> You can use "baz diff" to see what you've done
[05:55] <Flonne> Unpaid overtime == bad.
[05:55] <mpt> ("baz diff | less" if you've done a lot)
[05:56] <Flonne> I'll get back to work now.
[05:56] <mpt> heya Flonne
[05:56] <Flonne> Hi.
[05:56] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:56] <mpt> What kind of job?
[05:56] <Flonne> Techwriting, system document evaluation, and Python prototyping.
[05:57] <mpt> Someday I'll be good enough to be a professional tech writer
[05:57] <jsgotangco> mpt, so if i do some changes, i request you to merge to my archive?
[05:57] <mpt> jsgotangco: Correct
[05:58] <mpt> you commit them (baz commit -s "summary") and mirror them (baz archive-mirror), and then I can merge from them
[05:59] <mpt> And the same for my changes, you merge from those
[05:59] <mpt> Providing you agree with them, of course :-)
[06:00] <mpt> Flonne: How's the hand?
[06:02] <Flonne> It's better. I also got a chance to play with Yelp and XSL at work, so hopefully I'll find the problem soon.
[06:02] <Flonne> Thanks for asking.
[06:02] <jsgotangco> mpt, i like the structure
[06:03] <mpt> as in the sections and subsections?
[06:03] <jsgotangco> yes
[06:04] <mpt> Modelled loosely on the Gnome User Guide
[06:05] <jsgotangco> i noticed..the it still needs a lot of work though
[06:05] <mpt> yes
[06:05] <jsgotangco> i dont think this can be done by documentation freeze
[06:05] <jsgotangco> but its a nice start
[06:06] <mpt> Well, I guess that depends partly on the number of contributors :-)
[06:06] <jsgotangco> :)
[06:06] <jsgotangco> i'd like to work on it and learn baz more on the process
[06:06] <Flonne> It could be done if existing sources are mined for information and a few editors refine the content...
[06:06] <jsgotangco> Flonne, yeah we can pull info from the gnome user guide
[06:07] <jsgotangco> some from the faq guide being worked on and just detail it further
[06:08] <mpt> For me, where I've been writing topics the same as covered in the GUG, I'm pretty sure it's been faster for me to write from scratch
[06:08] <mpt> but I guess it might be different for other people
[06:08] <jsgotangco> i'll see what i can hack up later and request for a merge when i see you
[06:08] <mpt> excellent, thanks
[06:09] <jsgotangco> mpt, ok say we have 10 contributors, who manages the merge? only 1 person?
[06:09] <mpt> jsgotangco: How long ago did you grab the archive?
[06:09] <jsgotangco> mpt, last night, updated today
[06:10] <mpt> ok
[06:10] <Flonne> baz up ~= svn up?
[06:10] <mpt> No, there's no mainline for "up" to work from
[06:10] <jsgotangco> everyone has a copy
[06:10] <jsgotangco> there is no server copy
[06:10] <mpt> right
[06:10] <Flonne> Ah.
[06:11] <Flonne> I'll need to read about this system tomorrow.
[06:11] <jsgotangco> so it can be a bit confusing at the start
[06:11] <mpt> What usually happens, as far as I know, is that two or three people end up being the hub of the wheel
[06:11] <jsgotangco> the rest would request then
[06:11] <mpt> They pull in contributions from others
[06:11] <mpt> and constantly merge between themselves
[06:11] <jsgotangco> how is conflict resolved?
[06:11] <mpt> It helps if they're in different timezones :-)
[06:11] <jsgotangco> via the merge?
[06:11] <mpt> Yes
[06:12] <mpt> When you do a merge, it'll tell you if there were conflicts
[06:12] <mpt> the conflicted files will be prefixed with "C" in the listing instead of "M"
[06:12] <mpt> When you open them, you can see conflict markers which look roughly like this
[06:12] <mpt> <<<<<< TREE
[06:12] <mpt> your stuff here
[06:12] <mpt> [06:12] <mpt> the stuff you merged from here
[06:13] <mpt> >>>>>> MERGE-SOURCE
[06:13] <mpt> So for each of those sections, you can decide which bits should be retained
[06:13] <mpt> edit the files as appropriate
[06:13] <mpt> and once you've done that for all the conflicts, "baz resolved --all"
[06:14] <jsgotangco> hmm ok if you're merging my changes you'd do baz merge jgotangco@gmail.com/help--0 as well?
[06:14] <mpt> exactly
[06:14] <jsgotangco> i dont have a supermirror
[06:14] <mpt> You don't have an account on the supermirror?
[06:14] <Flonne> Hmm... 123 updates for Breezy today. Maybe I should revert.
[06:14] <mpt> jsgotangco: So is your archive public at all
[06:14] <jsgotangco> it won't let me do it if i follow your wiki
[06:14] <mpt> ?
[06:15] <mpt> really?
[06:15] <Flonne> amd64
[06:15] <jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz make-archive -m jgotangco@gmail.com sftp://jgotangco@gmail.com@mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/jgotangco@gmail.com
[06:15] <jsgotangco> Permission denied (publickey).
[06:15] <jsgotangco> Error reading from server
[06:15] <jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$
[06:15] <mpt> hmmmm
[06:15] <mpt> What's your Launchpad account name?
[06:16] <mpt> Flonne: That might be a good thing :-)
[06:16] <jsgotangco> jgotangco@gmail.com
[06:17] <Flonne> The first sixty were Xorg input updates. That's a lot, considering xserver-xorg isn't one of the packages to be upgraded.
[06:18] <mpt> jsgotangco: Oh, you need your SSH key registered with Launchpad
[06:18] <jsgotangco> i see
[06:18] <jsgotangco> ahh
[06:18] <mpt> I think that's the problem
[06:18] <jsgotangco> i haven't done that
[06:18] <mpt> I'll put that on the wiki page
[06:19] <mpt> sorry, I went over those instructions with the lead baz hacker, but we both missed that step :-)
[06:19] <jsgotangco> You need to register an SSH key with Launchpad to be able to publish your Bazaar code branches in the Bazaar supermirror.
[06:19] <jsgotangco> right
[06:19] <jsgotangco> so that's why
[06:24] <mpt> Flonne: So now would be a bad time to install Breezy from scratch?
[06:25] <mpt> jsgotangco: wiki page fixed.
[06:26] <jsgotangco> alright ill try it out again now
[06:27] <Flonne> It's still holding back three packages... including Python.
[06:28] <jsgotangco> ill just make a small edit and commit
[06:28] <Flonne> I'm not sure about i386, but I'm going to replace my 64-bit Gentoo partition with Hoary so I can work.
[06:29] <mpt> jsgotangco: Committing you can do anyway, it's the archive-mirror that's the test :-)
[06:30] <jsgotangco> mpt, archive-mirror goes into my supermirror right?
[06:30] <mpt> goes to your account on the Supermirror, yes
[06:31] <jsgotangco> wooo Seg fault
[06:31] <mpt> erk
[06:31] <jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-help$ baz archive-mirror
[06:31] <jsgotangco> Enter passphrase for key '/home/jsg/.ssh/id_rsa':
[06:31] <jsgotangco> Segmentation fault
[06:31] <jsgotangco> so that's the test :)
[06:31] <mpt> oh man
[06:31] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, pong
[06:32] <jsgotangco> wow
[06:32] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, where have you been? roaming in the real world lately? :)
[06:32] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, at my gf's place
[06:32] <Burgundavia> which means my machine stays on
[06:32] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, my laptop is being held captive by customs
[06:32] <Burgundavia> ouch
[06:33] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, if they are asking for money, canonical should cover it. But you need to pay up front
[06:33] <jsgotangco> no worries though, claire to the rescue
[06:33] <jsgotangco> mpt, if i always get a segfault, i wont be able to mirror and you can't merge :)
[06:34] <mpt> jsgotangco: I realize that
[06:34] <mpt> I ... don't know why that could be happening
[06:35] <mpt> jsgotangco: Try using the ssh-add command
[06:35] <mpt> and then baz archive-mirror
[06:35] <mpt> That'll tell us what's segfaulting, ssh or baz
[06:36] <jsgotangco> i still segfault on baz
[06:36] <mpt> oh, sucks
[06:37] <jsgotangco> the authentication agent works
[06:40] <mpt> It seems pretty much all the Bazaar hackers are asleep/busy
[06:40] <mpt> Try asking in #bazaar in a few hours
[06:41] <mpt> Sorry I can't help you further
[06:41] <mpt> No response in there at the moment.
[06:42] <jsgotangco> its ok i'll just grab a bite first
[06:43] <mpt> There's always e-mail :-)
[06:43] <mpt> By default, "baz diff" gives you the diff since your last commit
[06:43] <jsgotangco> yes i did that
[06:43] <jsgotangco> its really nice
[06:43] <mpt> but "baz diff mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0" will give you the diff between yours and mine, regardless of whether you've committed or mirrored or whatever
[06:44] <jsgotangco> ahh
[06:44] <mpt> Also good for examining someone's changes to see if you want to merge them
[06:44] <jsgotangco> i see your 14 patches
[06:44] <mpt> It takes quite a bit longer than a normal diff, because it's comparing across the network
[06:49] <mpt> jsgotangco: Do you know how to use gdb?
[06:52] <Flonne> What problem?
[06:53] <Flonne> Yelp is still not accepting XSL, but I'll continue reading while downloading Hoary.
[06:54] <mpt> The baz problem
[06:55] <mpt> Though from "downloading Hoary" I guess you have slightly bigger issues to deal with :-)
[06:55] <Flonne> Well, I could install it from Knoppix, but I really want to get something done. :)
[06:59] <jeffsch> mpt: I get Permission denied (publickey) when trying to create supermirror
[06:59] <jeffsch> is that an ssh problem?
[07:00] <mpt> jeffsch: I've just updated the instructions to mention that you need to register your SSH key with Launchpad
[07:00] <mpt> jsgotangco had the same problem
[07:00] <mpt> soryr
[07:00] <mpt> sorry, even
[07:00] <jeffsch> hmmm... i see that, but there is no "SSH Keys" on the right of my launchpad page
[07:01] <mpt> yes there is, I can see it from here
[07:01] <mpt> https://launchpad.net/people/jeffsch
[07:01] <mpt> between "Bugs Reported" and "GPG Keys"
[07:02] <jeffsch> ahhh. silly me... i was looking at the launchpad homepage, and not MY launchpad page :)
[07:02] <mpt> ok, good point
[07:05] <jeffsch> might also be useful to mention that "baz make-archive -m your@e-mail.address etc etc" is all one line, and not two lines
[07:07] <mpt> done.
[07:07] <mpt> ok, 2am, I'd better sleep or I'll be late for work yet again
[07:08] <Flonne> I don't seem to have encountered any problems while setting up a baz account.
[07:09] <jsgotangco> creating a supermirror relies on an ssh key
[07:09] <mpt> Flonne: I meant when doing archive-mirror
[07:11] <jeffsch> ok, i have to generate an ssh key: which is better - rsa or dsa?
[07:11] <Flonne> I'd need something to commit. I'll do that at work. You need sleep.
[07:11] <jdub> jeffsch: dsa
[07:12] <mpt> 'night, people
[07:12] <highvoltage> night mpt
[07:12] <Flonne> G'night.
[07:12] <jeffsch> night
[07:13] <jsgotangco> night
[07:13] <jsgotangco> mpt, thanks
[07:13] <mpt> jsgotangco: So if you want to, you can e-mail a diff
[07:13] <jsgotangco> ok
[07:13] <mpt> if you get no luck in #bazaar
[07:19] <jeffsch> jdub: how long for the ssh public key to work its way through the launchpad system?
[07:19] <jeffsch> i still get Permission denied (publickey).
[07:19] <jsgotangco> hmm
[07:19] <jsgotangco> it just worked for me instantly
[07:19] <jsgotangco> after uploading my ssh key
[07:20] <jeffsch> doh! my bad. hold on a sec...
[07:23] <jeffsch> ok. it worked. I only changed two of the three "your@e-mail.address". tsk tsk
[07:24] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:26] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: what up with styleguide? a while ago you said something about making pdf available
[07:27] <jeffsch> i want to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StyleGuide with appropriate info
[07:27] <jsgotangco> ouch
[07:28] <jsgotangco> i havent fop'ed it yet!
[07:28] <jsgotangco> sorry
[07:28] <jeffsch> np
[07:28] <jeffsch> i can prolly get around to it myself.
[07:28] <jsgotangco> and i don't have anywhere to put the PDF either
[07:28] <jeffsch> only thing is, where to put it?
[07:28] <jeffsch> oh
[07:29] <jsgotangco> should have been on the linode but only mdke has access to it at the moment for all i know
[07:29] <jeffsch> ok. so next time you see mdke, ask him about it - i will ask too
[07:30] <jsgotangco> ok
[07:30] <jdub> jeffsch: shuoldn't take long at all
[07:31] <jeffsch> yeah... turned out to be my fault
[09:37] <Madpilot> how long did that take?
[09:37] <Burgundavia> a couple of hours
[09:37] <Madpilot> not too bad, then
[09:37] <Burgundavia> only 319
[09:39] <Madpilot> must have been lots of glance-and-delete to get thru 319 in only a couple hours
[09:39] <Burgundavia> most are bug email
[09:40] <Madpilot> are you on #ubuntu now? following Determinist's "what Linux should do" rant? 
[09:41] <Burgundavia> yes, but not actively following it
[09:42] <Madpilot> can you send me a gmail invite? they still don't seem to be accepting regular signups
[09:43] <jsgotangco> i can send you one
[09:43] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: that was actually meant for Burgundavia, but whatever! yh728@victoria.tc.ca  - you two can race to see which gets to me first... ;)
[09:43] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, done
[09:43] <jsgotangco> there
[09:43] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: thanks
[09:49] <Burgundavia> bloody hell. Meeting in 6 hours
[09:49] <Madpilot> that's early...
[09:49] <jsgotangco> what meeting?
[09:49] <Burgundavia> 14:00 UTC
[09:50] <Burgundavia> oh wait, 1 day and 6 hours
[09:50] <Madpilot> bit of a difference. still too early in the morning
[09:50] <Burgundavia> need to be up early that morning anyway
[10:54] <mdke> jsgotangco, yo
[10:55] <jsgotangco> hi
[10:55] <mdke> aha
[10:55] <mdke> hello
[10:55] <mdke> saw a highlight from you about the linode?
[10:55] <jsgotangco> been busy?
[10:55] <mdke> yeah
[10:55] <mdke> looking for a place to live
[10:55] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[10:55] <mdke> wassup?
[10:55] <jsgotangco> well me an jeffsch are stumped on where to put our PDF on styleguide
[10:55] <mdke> ok
[10:56] <mdke> what are the options?
[10:56] <mdke> build/gnome?
[10:56] <jsgotangco> make pdf on styleguide
[10:56] <jsgotangco> but it needs apache fop
[10:56] <mdke> what is that?
[10:57] <mdke> it needs it to build?
[10:57] <jsgotangco> http://xml.apache.org/fop/
[10:57] <jsgotangco> just the pdf
[10:57] <jsgotangco> the make html works
[10:57] <mdke> ok is this apache fop in Ubuntu?
[10:58] <jsgotangco> nope
[10:58] <mdke> damn
[10:58] <mdke> so what do we do?
[10:59] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:59] <jsgotangco> i can make a PDF on oxygen
[10:59] <jsgotangco> and just upload it
[10:59] <mdke> hmm
[10:59] <mdke> it would be better to have it automated on the server tho no?
[11:00] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:00] <jsgotangco> but jeff's script needs fop
[11:00] <mdke> if we can get it building and into the "make all" then it will get copied with the rest
[11:00] <mdke> jsgotangco, we can install fop on the server?
[11:00] <jsgotangco> you have root
[11:01] <mdke> yes, and henrik
[11:01] <jsgotangco> we'd like to release StyleGuide 
[11:01] <mdke> i'll install it then
[11:01] <jsgotangco> ok
[11:01] <mdke> will you put the make target into "all"?
[11:02] <jsgotangco> all our docs?
[11:02] <mdke> jsgotangco, there is currently a make all in the /gnome/ folder
[11:02] <mdke> if you can add the styleguide, it will get built automatically with the others
[11:03] <mdke> actually it doesn't make sense to put it under gnome/
[11:03] <jsgotangco> i can try im not too familiar with the other scripts, only jeff's
[11:03] <mdke> i can do a separate cronjob if you like
[11:03] <mdke> but it would be best to have one make target that builds both html and pdf, what do you think?
[11:04] <jsgotangco> sure that's the best route actually i will just compare the scripts that we have
[11:05] <mdke> ok
[11:05] <mdke> leave the existing ones, and make one that calls both?
[11:05] <jsgotangco> well that should be our end goal
[11:05] <jsgotangco> is that linode in hoary?
[11:07] <mdke> it runs hoary
[11:08] <jsgotangco> ackkk styelsheet borkage
[11:10] <mdke> where should I install fop?
[11:12] <mdke> looks like I just have to untar the binary somewhere convenient, if you tell me the right address for your scripts, I'll do it there
[11:12] <jsgotangco> im trying to remember where i put it then
[11:13] <mdke> ok cool
[11:18] <mdke> i've changed my mind
[11:18] <mdke> i'm gonna install from source, that way all the paths should be right
[11:18] <jsgotangco> wha?
[11:19] <mdke> the make pdf script seems to need fop.sh, so building from source should ensure that that script is installed in the right place
[11:19] <mdke> or no?
[11:19] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:20] <mdke> actually... building it requires java
[11:20] <mdke> jsgotangco, lemme know where you have it installed and I'll install it now
[11:20] <mdke> also, do a "locate fop.sh"
[11:22] <mdke> looks like I need java anyway
[11:23] <mdke> jeez is there no other way to build pdf?
[11:23] <Burgundavia> xml2pdf?
[11:24] <mdke> i dunno anything about it
[11:25] <Burgundavia> part of the xml2 package
[11:26] <mdke> that does sound a bit more convenient
[11:26] <mdke> jsgotangco?
[11:26] <Burgundavia> just call it as part of a script
[11:26] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco has used it for edubuntu stuff I think
[11:26] <jsgotangco> sorry i was downstairs
[11:27] <jsgotangco> no i used a Java ide for that
[11:27] <mdke> if we can do xml->pdf without installing java and a non-packaged library, that would be a bit more convenient no?
[11:27] <jsgotangco> it should be
[11:27] <jsgotangco> i'm trying to install the binary on this machine and it just fails
[11:28] <mdke> ok can you let me know via email? maybe Sean will be able to help
[11:28] <jsgotangco> ok i'll just email later
[11:29] <mdke> i'll set up the server this evening if so
[11:29] <mdke> i'll get it building html already
[11:29] <mdke> (also if you do a make all target, that would rock)
[11:30] <mdke> argh
[11:30] <mdke> what does he use for building the html?
[11:30] <mdke> make: xmllint: Command not found
[11:30] <jsgotangco> on what?
[11:30] <jsgotangco> styleguide?
[11:30] <jsgotangco> make html works for me
[11:31] <mdke> yeah
[11:31] <jsgotangco> without any other app
[11:31] <mdke> seems not to use the same tool as the other docs
[11:31] <mdke> it uses something the linode doesn't have installed yet
[11:31] <jsgotangco> its basic docbook stylesheets
[11:31] <jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-doc/styleguide$ make html
[11:31] <jsgotangco> xmllint --dtdvalid /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid styleguide.xml
[11:31] <jsgotangco> xsltproc -o ../build/styleguide/styleguide.html /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/docbook.xsl styleguide.xml
[11:32] <mdke> dude
[11:32] <mdke> the other docs build, this doesn't. So it _must_ be using a different tool to them
[11:32] <mdke> because the linode doesn't have the xmllint progra installed
[11:32] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:32] <mdke> i'll try and install it if you like, but it would seem sensible to build all the docs the same way
[11:32] <jsgotangco> what is the syntax of the other docs?
[11:33] <mdke> not sure
[11:33] <mdke> you have to look at the makefiles
[11:33] <mdke> in gnome/ and kde/
[11:33] <Burgundavia> night all
[11:33] <jsgotangco> hmm ok
[11:34] <mdke> jsgotangco, anyway for now I've installed xmllint and it works
[11:34] <jsgotangco> let me check this, i see some stuff on themake file
[11:38] <mdke> ok I've set up a cronjob to build the styleguide and serve it
[11:38] <mdke> for now it is just doing "make html", when you set up a "make all" i'll change it
[11:38] <mdke> http://65.19.178.132/styleguide/
[11:38] <jsgotangco> ok i'll test it first
[11:38] <mdke> cool, let me know via email
[11:39] <mdke> looks great btw
[11:40] <jsgotangco> hmm there's make sg
[11:40] <jsgotangco> but no pdf
[11:40] <jsgotangco> its all html make
[11:40] <mdke> ?
[11:40] <mdke> there is a make pdf in the styleguide folder
[11:41] <mdke> if you get jeffsch on it, he'll sort it out I'm sure
[11:41] <jsgotangco> no in the big makefile in gnome
[11:41] <mdke> ah
[11:41] <jsgotangco> he probably mixed up on the 2 scripts
[11:41] <mdke> if I were you I'd remove references to the styleguide in gnome/ because it is separate really
[11:41] <jsgotangco> and forgot about the big script
[11:41] <mdke> that is probably deprecated
[11:41] <mdke> best thing is to have a "make all" target in the styleguide/ makefile
[11:42] <jsgotangco> make html on styleguide goes into build as well?
[11:42] <mdke> yes
[11:42] <mdke> OUTFILE = ../build/styleguide/styleguide
[11:42] <mdke> it goes into build/styleguide
[11:42] <jsgotangco> right
[11:42] <jsgotangco> so that works
[11:42] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[11:42] <mdke> yep
[11:43] <jsgotangco> wonder what is wrong with the other make i did
[11:43] <mdke> we can just email jeffsch
[11:43] <mdke> maybe ask if he can build the pdf without using fop, via some other tool that doesn't require installing java
[11:44] <jsgotangco> it built nicely on my ide though :)
[11:44] <mdke> and then if he can do a make all target
[11:44] <mdke> sure
[11:44] <mdke> if there is no other way to build pdf, then we will have to install java and fop on the server
[11:44] <mdke> i'm sure Sean will know the best way
[11:44] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:45] <mdke> maybe investigate this xml2pdf thing
[11:46] <jsgotangco> ok i'm going out for a walk first
[11:46] <mdke> cool
[11:46] <mdke> see ya later
[11:46] <jsgotangco> i've been in this room for hours
[11:46] <jsgotangco> nothing else to do
[11:46] <mdke> heh
[11:46] <mdke> see you on email
[11:46] <mdke> need to go and look at some more houses
[03:31] <mgalvin> morning all
[03:32] <rob^> morning
[03:32] <rob^> doesnt look like there is going to be enough people to approve membership to CC at this meeting
[03:32] <rob^> dam it
[03:33] <mgalvin> for who
[03:33] <rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[03:33] <rob^> I think they need 3 acutal members or something
[03:33] <mgalvin> did they already speak to you?
[03:34] <rob^> I spoke to them
[03:37] <mgalvin> hm, this meeting was to early in the am for me to get to all of it, did anyone give you +1
[03:37] <mgalvin> who was around
[03:37] <rob^> I asked, the said "go for it"
[03:38] <rob^> its still going now
[03:43] <mgalvin> i am there to +1 for you
[03:43] <mgalvin> they are doing members now
[03:43] <rob^> thanks
[03:43] <rob^> yep
[03:43] <jsgotangco> members?
[03:43] <mgalvin> think they just called on u
[03:43] <mgalvin> CC meeting
[03:44] <jsgotangco> oh there's a CC now?
[03:44] <rob^> JonathanJesse
[03:44] <rob^> yep
[03:44] <mgalvin> yup
[03:44] <jsgotangco> i forgot its tuesday
[03:45] <mgalvin> i missed the first half, to early for me
[03:45] <mpt> hi jsgotangco, any luck with baz?
[03:46] <jsgotangco> i still segfault
[03:46] <jsgotangco> i didnt see the baz people online either
[03:46] <mpt> jsgotangco: Did you get a backtrace?
[03:47] <jsgotangco> err why should i do that?
[03:48] <mpt> to debug the crash with
[03:48] <mpt> or more precisely, for the Bazaar hackers to debug the crash with
[03:48] <jsgotangco> baz makes a log on that?
[04:17] <jjesse> morning
[04:17] <rob^> morning
[04:25] <jjesse> did my commit to svn come across? i made some changes to kuserguide, but haven't seen the normal email (i'm subscribed to that list that sends out changes)
[04:25] <mpt> jsgotangco: No, you need to use gdb for it, that's why I asked you earlier if you knew how to use gdb
[04:26] <rob^> jjesse, yes
[04:26] <rob^> 1595
[04:26] <jjesse> thansk rob^ 
[04:27] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:27] <jsgotangco> i only see enrico's
[04:27] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:27] <jsgotangco> wait
[04:27] <jsgotangco> right
[04:28] <jsgotangco> mpt: i'll check it later then
[04:28] <jsgotangco> im getting a bit sleepy
[04:28] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:53] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:53] <rob^> night all
[05:54] <mgalvin> g'night
[06:34] <rwabel> @RobertStoffers: why did you remove the ubuntuguide link? It's still a ressource! Could u next time comment the change you made
[06:34] <rwabel> why isn't it possible to revert the last change on the UserDocumentaion?
[06:34] <highvoltage> rwabel: ubuntuguide is not seen as a reliable link, it also doesn't offer explanations.
[06:39] <mdke> rwabel, it is always possible to revert
[06:40] <mgalvin> highvoltage: why is ubuntuguide not seen as reliable? "many" people have found it "very" useful
[06:40] <mdke> it is a good link and should be there
[06:40] <mdke> and it is especially bad that there was no comment made when editing that page
[06:41] <highvoltage> the ubuntu community says that ubuntu-guide should not be recommended. it says so somewhere in the wiki too.
[06:41] <mgalvin> i don't understand why people, especially the nun don't like ubuntuguide, so many new users have stayed with ubuntu b/c of it
[06:41] <highvoltage> i'll search for the link quickly...
[06:41] <mgalvin> yea, the nun
[06:41] <mdke> highvoltage, the ubuntu community?
[06:41] <mdke> that depends how you define community dude
[06:41] <mgalvin> just the nun say that iirc
[06:41] <highvoltage> mdke: true
[06:42] <mgalvin> most of the community absolutely love it
[06:42] <mdke> if you include the thousands and thousands of users of the ubuntuguide, you're gonna struggle to make your point
[06:42] <mdke> although we have some problems with the guide, i don't hesitate to recommend it for many things
[06:43] <mdke> rwabel, reverted
[06:43] <highvoltage> i don't know ubuntuguide, so i don't have any gripes with it. i know that i've seen many, many times, that people on the ubuntu irc channels say that you should avoid ubuntuguide.
[06:43] <mdke> yeah for some things it is not great
[06:43] <mdke> but for others it is
[06:44] <mdke> people on irc channels can get a bit high and mighty sometimes
[06:44] <mgalvin> yea the people on #ubuntu saying that are nun members and they don't represent the majority... of course it has pros and cons but the pros seem to outweigh the cons
[06:46] <highvoltage> ah yes, the bot on ubuntu says this when you ask about ubuntuguide:
[06:46] <highvoltage> 18:45 < ubotu> somebody said ubuntuguide was a set of instructions with no explanation. Please do not advise people to use ubuntuguide.  Advise https://wiki.ubuntu.com instead. The official FAQ Guide will be released with Breezy, stay tuned
[06:46] <mdke> bah
[06:47] <mdke> if I wanted to set up Samba I would use it
[06:47] <mdke> or something like that
[06:47] <mdke> as I say, they get a bit high and mighty on #ubuntu sometimes
[06:48] <mdke> gah
[06:51] <mdke> mgalvin, does the faq guide need any proof reading?
[06:51] <mgalvin> mdke: yup
[06:51] <mdke> is it ready for that?
[06:52] <mgalvin> mostly yes, feel free to start proofing
[06:53] <mdke> cool
[06:53] <mdke> i guess the relevant sections are marked review/
[06:53] <mdke> ?
[06:53] <mgalvin> thats the status' right?
[06:53] <mgalvin> no that are not marked
[06:54] <mdke> ah
[06:54] <mgalvin> just about the whole thing is done
[06:54] <mgalvin> java still needs to be worked, but i will have that done soon
[06:54] <mdke> ok marks some sections "review" and I will do a bit
[06:54] <mdke> marks/mark
[06:55] <mgalvin> ok, i will mark those as soon as i get a chance... at work right now
[06:55] <mdke> cool
[06:56] <mdke> i have plenty to do on this damn laptop but i haven't done any doc work for ages so it will be nice to do some reviewing
[07:53] <jjesse> afternoon
[07:55] <judax> Hi
[07:57] <jjesse> how ofen does the preview site get updated?  
[08:15] <rwabel> mdke: thanks for reverting, in my case there has only been revert links for the other changes
[08:16] <rwabel> highvoltage: doesn't matter if it doesn't offer explanations. It's another ressource. It's no bad. And there has been a long discussion about it. It's an external link and not supported by ubuntu people but it's a know ressource
[08:18] <highvoltage> rwabel: i didn't say it was a bad resource.
[08:18] <highvoltage> rwabel: other people have said so. like i said, i have no problems with ubuntu-guide.
[08:25] <mgalvin> is everyone one turing into business managers ;)
[08:27] <jjesse> what mgalvin ?
[08:28] <mgalvin> calling things/people/page/anything a "resource" is manager speak
[08:28] <mgalvin> just joking about mpt head exploding b/c of "resource"
[08:29] <jjesse> grin
[08:38] <mdke> jjesse, i updated it yesterday
[08:38] <jjesse> * thinks outside of the box
[08:38] <mdke> rwabel, you have to use the revert link on the version you want to revert to
[08:38] <mdke> rwabel, that's why the latest version has no revert link
[08:39] <mdke> jjesse, once we have an address for our linode server though, it will be updated daily automatically
[08:40] <mdke> jjesse, did you get the messages I just posted? not sure if you got disconnected first
[08:40] <jjesse> hmmm why do i always get disconnected
[08:40] <jjesse> last one i got was mpt transcending the paradigm
[08:40] <mdke> ok
[08:41] <mdke>  [19:38:03]  < mdke> jjesse, i updated it yesterday
[08:41] <mdke>  [19:39:10]  < mdke> jjesse, once we have an address for our linode server though, it will be updated daily automatically
[08:41] <jjesse> mdke thanks i was wondering how that worked as i had committed some changes and stuff
[08:41] <mdke> jjesse, if its to the kde stuff, Sean updates it quite regularly
[08:42] <jjesse> nod it was kde stuff
[08:42] <mdke> once we have an address for the linode, both kde and gnome will be updated every day tho
[08:42] <jjesse> is there a better preview then waiting for it to be updated?
[08:43] <jjesse> especially in kubuntu
[08:45] <mdke> you can build it yourself and view it
[08:45] <mdke> or view it directly as xml
[08:45] <mdke> to build, do "cd ubuntu-docs/trunk/kde"
[08:45] <mdke> then "make kall"
[08:45] <jjesse> make all or make kall?
[08:45] <mdke> kall sald
[08:45] <mdke> sadly
[08:46] <jjesse> hmm thats different then normal
[08:48] <jjesse> umm i just got lots of errors on the make kall for kuserguide
[08:48] <mdke> yeah it sucks. have a look in the makefile to find out how to build individual documents
[08:49] <jjesse> should i just post the errors in  an email to the doc list?
[08:50] <mdke> no
[08:50] <mdke> they are probably because you don't have stuff installed
[08:51] <jjesse> kuserguide/C/kuserguide.xml:6: parser warning : PEReference: %xinclude; not found
[08:51] <jjesse> %xinclude;
[08:51] <mdke> ah
[08:51] <mdke> that is an error in the xml
[08:52] <mdke> you should check the xml all the time as you work using the validate.sh script
[08:52] <mdke> e.g.
[08:52] <mdke> ./validate.sh kde/kuserguide/kuserguide.xml
[08:52] <mdke> those sorts of errors can go to the list yeah
[08:53] <jjesse> ok
[09:00] <rwabel> mdke: ah ok. thanks
[09:01] <rwabel> highvoltage: I know others are saying. That wasn't for me a reason to remove it. Acutally I prefer to have it as an external ressource. People can decide by themself if they want to use it or not :-)
[09:20] <highvoltage> rwabel: cool bananas.
[09:41] <rwabel> highvoltage: bananas?
[10:00] <mpt> Who here knows about the ubuntu-doc SVN repository?
[10:00] <mpt> mgalvin?
[10:01] <mgalvin> mpt: whats up
[10:02] <mpt> mgalvin: Is there a "viewsvn" for the repository?
[10:08] <mgalvin> i don't think so
[10:54] <mdke> mpt, what is viewsvn?
[10:54] <mpt> I don't know :-)
[10:54] <mdke> what do you want to do?
[10:54] <mpt> ddaa is currently trying to get ubuntu-doc imported into baz
[10:55] <mdke> ah
[10:55] <mpt> as Launchpad does for over 500 other projects developed in CVS/SVN
[10:55] <mdke> what does he want to do?
[10:55] <mpt> but ubuntu-doc caused a bug in the import process
[10:55] <mpt> otherwise it would have happened a couple of weeks ago
[10:55] <mdke> ok
[10:56] <mgalvin> viewsvn allows you to view an svn repository via a web interface
[10:56] <mdke> right
[10:56] <mgalvin> http://viewsvn.berlios.de/
[10:56] <mpt> and he was trying to understand the bug
[10:56] <mdke> you can view it at its address
[10:56] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/
[10:56] <mdke> does that help?
[10:56] <mdke> open in a browser
[10:57] <mdke> but elmo is the best person to help you understand the bug I think
[10:57] <mpt> yes, thanks