[12:03] <Nafallo> paolo-: badgers have those groups :-)
[12:04] <paolo-> haha.
[12:05] <mpt> Nafallo: Bugs of the form "This is all completely utterly wrong" don't tend to get fixed, that's not what a bug tracker's good for
[12:05] <seb128> mpt: what about saying what is wrong?
[12:06] <Nafallo> mpt: what seb128 said :-)
[12:06] <\sh> ok...4 hours to sleep
[12:06] <\sh> g'night guys
[12:06] <ogra__> night \sh
[12:06] <Nafallo> \sh: goodnight darling :-)
[12:06] <mpt> seb128: Hoary: "The tasks of copying music from a CD in uncompressed format, copying music from a CD in compressed format, playing music on a CD, and playing music on a hard disk are performed with ... four separate programs with four different interfaces: Nautilus, Sound Juicer, CD Player, and Music Player."
[12:06] <\sh> oh Nafallo good night kiss please...without this i can't sleep *lol*
[12:07] <mpt> seb128: afaict, Breezy is the same, except swapping Serpentine for Nautilus
[12:07] <\sh> now I can dream ;)
[12:08] <\sh> gone
[12:08] <Nafallo> *s*
[12:08] <Nafallo> mpt: you might play the music with sj now :-)
[12:08] <seb128> mpt: bah, different issue than dnd 
[12:08] <Nafallo> mpt: ... but I see what you mean :-)
[12:09] <ogra__> mpt: that was not swapping anything.... you couldnt burn audio CDs at all in hoary
[12:11] <Nafallo> burning wasn't in that list either :-)
[12:11] <ogra__> mpt: andserpentine was the only app that didnt duplicate any functionallity, that was my main reason to promote it... 
[12:13] <mpt> ogra__: I'm bothered almost as much by duplicate interface as I am by duplicate function
[12:13] <ogra__> mpt: where is either of them in serpentine ? 
[12:13] <mpt> Nautilus has UI for moving+copying items, renaming items, deleting items
[12:13] <seb128> rhythmbox can play music and record CDs
[12:13] <mpt> it can burn CDs of files
[12:14] <seb128> there is some patch for CD playing
[12:14] <ogra__> yes, thatworks with serpentine too... you can drag and drop audiofiles into serpentine as you can in nautilus
[12:14] <tseng> hm automounting is broken in my clean breezy install
[12:14] <tseng> anyone have a bug # for that
[12:14] <ogra__> tseng: pitti just uploaded the fix
[12:14] <tseng> haha rock on.
[12:14] <mpt> So almost all the extra that's needed is radiobuttons to choose between "Data CD" and "Music CD" in the burn dialog
[12:15] <ogra__> mpt: you have these buttons in the dialog that pops up if you put in a empty CD
[12:16] <mpt> A dialog pops up if you put in an empty CD? :-(
[12:16] <seb128> why not?
[12:16] <mpt> Maybe I'm just badly organized, but I have a bunch of CD-Rs and I forget which ones are empty and which aren't
[12:16] <mpt> So I put them in the computer to find out
[12:16] <mpt> I don't want a dialog popping up for every one.
[12:17] <ogra__> yes, isnt it nice, if you catch a empty one you can directly burn to it :)
[12:17] <seb128> how is it supposed to know if you want to record some datas or some music or some photos?
[12:17] <mpt> seb128: By my dragging those kind of files into its window!
[12:18] <ogra__> mpt: and you want justoverwrite your beloved titles by default if you put in a CD and click "burn" ?
[12:18] <mpt> ogra__: Sorry, I don't understand what you mean
[12:18] <mpt> "beloved titles"?
[12:19] <ogra__> mpt: how should nautilus handle your RWs that already have content ? 
[12:19] <seb128> mpt what window?
[12:19] <seb128> mpt: f-spot is used for photos by example
[12:19] <mpt> seb128: The CD's window.
[12:19] <ogra__> going your path would mean you overwrite the CDRW by default with the titles you drop into the burner window
[12:20] <seb128> there is no something like "the" window
[12:20] <seb128> different usecase, different UIs
[12:20] <mpt> seb128: Hooray! That's the problem I'm talking about.
[12:20] <mpt> It's all just putting stuff on a CD.
[12:20] <seb128> not really
[12:20] <mpt> ogra__: No it wouldn't, the existing items would show up in the window
[12:20] <ogra__> mpt: so you prefer a app like gnomebaker ?
[12:20] <seb128> f-spot is nice to manage photos for a CD
[12:20] <ogra__> or k3b even
[12:21] <mpt> seb128: Yes it is, but again, it annoys me that F-Spot's UI for renaming, deleting, copying etc is gratuitously different from Nautilus's.
[12:21] <mpt> Not that Nautilus's UI is a work of art, it's not
[12:21] <mpt> but neither is F-Spot's
[12:21] <mpt> and it's the inconsistency that annoys me.
[12:22] <seb128> mpt: you expect from a file manager to list exif datas, rotate photos, resize pictures, etc?
[12:22] <ogra__> mpt: true, butserpentine was the most consistent choice we could make UI wise
[12:23] <Cimmerian> ok, it says to report here. just installed breezy from breezy-install-i386.iso 20050816 and it didn't configure X. the xorg.conf file was empty. after putting in an old one, stuff seems to be running fine
[12:23] <ogra__> mpt: else you would see gnomebaker as the default burner... there simply isnt an app like you want yet
[12:23] <mpt> ogra__: I understand that, I know you're just choosing packages from upstream, that's why I didn't report a bug of the form "This is all terribly wrong"
[12:24] <mpt> seb128: Via a plug-in, yes.
[12:24] <mpt> seb128: Like Fontilus, but more sophisticated.
[12:24] <ogra__> Cimmerian: only 20050816 ? or was that a 20050816.X ?
[12:24] <mpt> Or like the "Cookies" window in Windows Explorer.
[12:25] <seb128> nautilus is moving away from doing everything to use external apps
[12:25] <ogra__> Cimmerian: i'm currently installing 20050816.8 wait 10 min and i can agree or not :)
[12:26] <mpt> seb128: By "everything" you mean displaying documents, right?
[12:26] <seb128> yeah
[12:26] <seb128> it's a file manager
[12:26] <mpt> seb128: And that's good
[12:26] <seb128> not an exif editor
[12:26] <mpt> but I'm not interested in "files" or "exif"
[12:26] <Cimmerian> well, i dl'ed it from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[12:26] <mpt> I have various collections of things on my disk
[12:26] <seb128> so you want to edit a photo, use f-spot or whatever
[12:27] <mpt> documents, photos, music, cookies, bookmarks, e-mail messages, address book cards
[12:27] <mpt> And the UI for deleting one of those things (for example) is different in every single case
[12:27] <Cimmerian> it also didn't boot the 2nd stage on first boot in a vmware virtual machine, but i filed a bug on that
[12:28] <Cimmerian> worked on my laptop
[12:28] <ogra__> ah, ok...
[12:28] <mpt> Nautilus is still showing me thumbnails of photos, and I can zoom them in and out, but I can't rotate them
[12:28] <seb128> so let's trash the mailer
[12:28] <seb128> and list mails as files and open then with gedit? :)
[12:28] <ogra__> seb128: nautilus for mail ?
[12:28] <ogra__> heh
[12:28] <mpt> seb128: yes, in the long term
[12:29] <mpt> but that's probably the hardest step
[12:29] <seb128> I'll have switched to an another before that :)
[12:29] <mpt> the easiest is making Nautilus able to burn CDs :-)
[12:29] <seb128> s/another/another OS/
[12:29] <seb128> I agree on that, that's file copying
[12:30] <ogra__> mpt: my inbox holds more then 70000 mails... i dont think a ui like a filemanager would be right for that
[12:30] <seb128> I don't agree on stuff like mail, a mailer is not a file-browser
[12:30] <ogra__> s/right/usable
[12:32] <mpt> sure, mail is one of the least definite examples
[12:32] <mpt> because it's almost as much about documents as it is about collections
[12:32] <mpt> I'd just like a "collection manager" instead of a "file manager"
[12:33] <seb128> different file types, different functions, different UIs
[12:33] <seb128> you don't manage mails the same way you manage photos
[12:33] <ogra__> or files
[12:34] <mpt> I'd certainly like to be able to apply the same emblems
[12:34] <ogra__> or oggs
[12:34] <ajmitch> eg, merge f-spot functionality into nautilus?
[12:34] <mpt> and to drag mail messages to folders with other documents in them
[12:34] <mpt> ajmitch: Have a plug-in for it
[12:35] <seb128> emblems can be the same, you just have to attach the data to the file
[12:35] <seb128> and that's the plan/what beagle/f-spot do
[12:42] <ogra__> mdz: no working Xconfiguration here
[12:42] <ogra__> mdz: not even a xorg.conf
[12:43] <ogra__> err, sorry, a 0 byte xorg.conf
[12:43] <mdz> ogra__: install or live, and have you tried to debug?
[12:43] <mdz> works fine for me here
[12:44] <ogra__> mdz: i386 install... just finished the install a min ago
[12:46] <ogra__> hmm, reconfigure worked fine ... looking in /var/log/debian-installer
[12:52] <jbailey> Are we safe to upload now without causing grief to the colony builds?
[12:54] <Cimmerian> yes, 0 byte xorg.conf, that's what i got
[12:55] <mdz> jbailey: no
[12:55] <Cimmerian> hmm, "New updates availabe", that's a big typo smacking you in the face
[12:56] <mdz> ogra__,Cimmerian: no questions asked?
[12:56] <Cimmerian> well, i just let it run and when i got back, it said X could not be started
[12:56] <ogra__> grmpf... is there any way to ready base-config.log ? its totally broken, one long line
[12:56] <ogra__> mdz: resolution was asked
[12:56] <Cimmerian> so i checked the logs and found a zero-length xorg.conf
[12:57] <mdz> ogra__: that's #13523
[12:57] <mdz> causing the question to be asked
[12:57] <mdz> but I certainly still got a valid config
[12:57] <mdz> ogra__: check /var/log/casper/post.log
[12:58] <ogra__> nocasper... i386 install ....
[12:58] <jbailey> mdz: Thanks.
[12:58] <mdz> ogra__: /var/log/installer/*
[12:59] <mdz> I already have one fix that I need to roll into a new CD build; if there are more to be found, now is the time to find them
[12:59] <ogra__> mdz: already looked there, grepping for xorg returns nothing....
[12:59] <ogra__> mdz: my best guess was to look in base-config.log 
[01:00] <ogra__> but this file is totally unreadable
[01:00] <mdz> ogra__: right, I meant base-config.log
[01:00] <mdz> ogra__: search for xserver-xorg
[01:05] <ogra__> nothing.... i guess its best to reinstall and watch the console output.... 
[01:05] <mdz> what console output?
[01:05] <ogra__> from base-config
[01:05] <mdz> that is what base-config.log is
[01:05] <mdz> the only thing you see on the console is a progress bar
[01:06] <mdz> are you sure you are using the right CD?
[01:06] <ogra__>  yes, .8
[01:06] <ogra__> from today
[01:06] <ogra__> there are no errors in base-config.log
[01:06] <mdz> I got a working xorg.conf on all 3 architectures
[01:07] <mdz> though it asked the mode question each time
[01:08] <mdz> ogra__: did you not see the progress bar?
[01:08] <jammcq_office> mdz: hey, any idea if the VIA CMOV issue in initramfs is fixed yet?  I can't find any mention of the bug in bugzilla
[01:08] <jammcq_office> and i'd like to test another workstation tonight
[01:08] <ogra__> mdz: sure... but on tty4 you get the output...
[01:08] <mdz> jammcq_office: it's in bugzilla; let me get the bug number
[01:08] <mdz> jammcq_office: it is definitely not fixed yet
[01:09] <mdz> jammcq_office: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13470
[01:10] <Cimmerian> Setting up xserver-xorg (6.8.2-49) ...
[01:10] <Cimmerian> xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keyboard/model not set.  Aborting.  Reconfigure
[01:10] <Cimmerian> the X server with "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" to correct this problem.
[01:10] <Cimmerian> xserver-xorg postinst warning: error while preparing new Xorg X server
[01:10] <jammcq_office> mdz: thanks
[01:10] <mdz> Cimmerian: what language did you use for the install?
[01:11] <Cimmerian> english language, norwegian keyboard
[01:11] <mdz> ok, must be layout-related then
[01:11] <mdz> dvorak works
[01:11] <ogra__> ah, yes, i recognized the german gnome langpacks had to be downloaded, is that intentional ? 
[01:12] <mdz> ogra__: unless pitti changed it recently, yes
[01:12] <mdz> that is not a blocker for colony 3 though
[01:12] <carstenh> hmm, via cmov issue sounds like the bug i got in -10
[01:12] <ogra__> nope... just an observation
[01:13] <mdz> carstenh: -10 of what?
[01:13] <carstenh> mdz: kernel-image-2.6...
[01:13] <mdz> X config being broken for most people is a blocker, though :-/
[01:13] <mdz> carstenh: that's not an Ubuntu package
[01:14] <carstenh> then -8, its the latest ubuntu version
[01:14] <mdz> the latest Ubuntu kernel is linux-image-2.6.12 version 2.6.12-6.10
[01:14] <ogra__> i'll do a reinstall and try to confirm that keyboard thing... my problem i, that the logfile is unusable, its a long single line with tons of escape sequences in it... i cant find a vim replace command to change it...
[01:14] <mdz> and unless you're moving the initramfs from one machine to another or using LTSP, you won't encounter #13470
[01:14] <carstenh> oh, i only remembered the 10, sorry.
[01:15] <mdz> ogra__: less +/xserver-xorg /var/log/base-config.log
[01:15] <Cimmerian> btw, the error was in base-config-pkgsel.log
[01:15] <mdz> ogra__: then press 'n' until you get to the interesting bit
[01:16] <ogra__> Cimmerian: i dont have this file
[01:16] <ogra__> fun
[01:17] <carstenh> mdz: JFYI: i got another error with .6-10
[01:18] <mdz> Cimmerian: please file this in bugzilla
[01:18] <mdz> carstenh: are you going to tell us what it is?
[01:18] <carstenh> mdz: wait a minute
[01:18] <ogra__> hmm, i'm blind...
[01:21] <carstenh> mdz: "/bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off" sorry, i had this on another pc that is 70km away and had to search my backups for the log
[01:21] <carstenh> mdz: but there was something before that
[01:21] <mdz> ogra__, Cimmerian: are either of you on powerpc by any chance?
[01:21] <ogra__> mdz: that less command works fo you ? 
[01:21] <carstenh> something i don't remember atm
[01:22] <ogra__> mdz: i386
[01:22] <Cimmerian> same here
[01:22] <mdz> carstenh: sorry, that isn't enough information.  file it in bugzilla if you can provide a complete report
[01:22] <mdz> oh, I think I see
[01:23] <mdz> Cimmerian: I think I see the problem, but the right solution isn't obvious, please do file in bugzilla
[01:23] <Cimmerian> ok, will do
[01:24] <mdz> send the bug# and I'll follow up there with my analysis
[01:25] <jbailey> jammcq_office: I have it fixed in my tree, waiting for the okay to upload to breezy again.
[01:25] <carstenh> Cimmerian: do you have a via samuel too?
[01:26] <carstenh> Cimmerian: and if yes does the latest kernel-image work on your box exept the bug you talked about?
[01:26] <jammcq_office> jbailey: AWESOME
[01:27] <jammcq_office> jbailey: i've added my email to the bug, so i'll get a notification when you update the bug
[01:28] <carstenh> hmm, let's fuck up my ubuntu-box with a on my box borken kernel :(
[01:28] <jbailey> jammcq_office: 'kay.  Would you be interested in testing a deb for me?
[01:28] <mdz> Cimmerian: hmm, on further examination I don't see how this happened
[01:28] <jbailey> mdz: Other button. =)
[01:29] <mdz> jbailey: we've been over this before
[01:29] <mdz> jbailey: control+W is a VERY BAD CHOICE for a shortcut key for "close window"
[01:29] <jbailey> Ayup
[01:29] <mdz> when it has traditionally been "delete word backward"
[01:29] <mdz> Cimmerian: any chance you could run through it again with DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes?
[01:30] <mdz> Cimmerian: you'll probably need to purge and reinstall it
[01:32] <ogra__> mdz: for me the dpkg-reconfigure worked fine.... i think its how base-config runs the x configuration
[01:32] <ogra__> but there is definately no error in my logfile... 
[01:33] <carstenh> mdz: unable to find volume group 301 ALERT! 301 does not exist, dropping a shell <- the first error message
[01:33] <mdz> ogra__: set DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes
[01:33] <ogra__> ok
[01:33] <mdz> I guess you'll need to edit base-config before rebooting or something
[01:34] <mdz> in /target
[01:34] <jammcq_office> jbailey: sure, in about 3 hours
[01:34] <ogra__> ah, i cant hand that to the installer ? 
[01:35] <carstenh> jbailey: do you have something to to with initrd? if yes does volume group 301 tell you something?
[01:35] <jbailey> carstenh: I do, and no... Not off hand. 
[01:36] <carstenh> jbailey: i get this error-message when booting the latest ubuntu-kernel on my via samuel
[01:37] <carstenh> jbailey: can you tell me which information should be appended in a bug-report in this case?
[01:37] <mdz> ogra__: it needs to be set in the environment of xserver-xorg.config and xserver-xorg.postinst
[01:37] <ogra__> ok
[01:38] <jbailey> carstenh: Can you give me the exact text of the error message?
[01:39] <carstenh> jbailey: device-mapper initializied .... \n unable to find volume group "301" \n Done. \n ALERT! 301 does not exist. dropping a shell!
[01:40] <mdz> jbailey: I get something similar, but non-fatal and with "hda6" (root device) being interpreted as a volume group name
[01:40] <mdz> carstenh: so I assume you're passing "root=301" on the command line
[01:41] <carstenh> jbailey: and then Busybox bla... \n /bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off
[01:41] <jbailey> carstenh: cat /proc/cmdline ?
[01:41] <Cimmerian> #13532
[01:41] <carstenh> mdz: i use lilo, but the is iirc nothing like this in my lilo.conf
[01:42] <jbailey> Ah, lilo remapps the root= to a number.  That bug was already filed.
[01:42] <carstenh> jbailey: it does not have a keyboard, wait a minute
[01:42] <mdz> carstenh: boot in recovery mode, the kernel prints a line like "Kernel command line: ..."
[01:42] <Cimmerian> i get that unable to find volume group "hdc2" , but the boot continues anyway
[01:42] <jbailey> carstenh: No, I think that tells me enough right at the moment that you use lilo.
[01:42] <mdz> Cimmerian: right, because hdc2 is a valid device name
[01:42] <mdz> while 301 isn't
[01:43] <mdz> initramfs and lilo are currently incompatible I think
[01:43] <mdz> s/initramfs/&-tools/
[01:43] <mdz> ogra__, Cimmerian: I have a patch for you guys to test
[01:43] <Cimmerian> in vmware i get an error, i'll see if i can get a working setup to find what driver is needed fort that later
[01:43] <mdz> ogra__, Cimmerian: just be sure NOT to run dpkg-reconfigure, since that will destroy the state we need to test
[01:43] <ogra__> ok
[01:43] <mdz> I guess you can always purge/reinstall xserver-xorg though
[01:43] <jbailey> Cimmerian: Cool, thanks.
[01:44] <carstenh> jbailey: ... root=301
[01:45] <carstenh> jbailey: auto BOOT_IMAGE=Linux ro root=301 is the complete output of cat /proc/cmdline
[01:45] <ogra__> .....copying remaining packages .... *yawn*
[01:46] <carstenh> mdz: i guess i don't need to boot the recovery-mode anymore
[01:47] <Cimmerian> could the vmware error be caused by the virtual disk being scsi?
[02:04] <mdz> ogra__: it would have been sufficient to purge and reinstall xserver-xorg
[02:04] <ogra__> i'm nearly done now...
[02:08] <ogra__> mdz: i'm at tty4 now and see a lot of debconf output.... tty1 is waiting for resolution input... anything special i should look for in the debconf stuff? 
[02:08] <mdz> ogra__: I'd just like a copy of the debug output
[02:09] <mdz> /var/log/base-config.log is fine
[02:09] <ogra__> ok, thats should be in the baseconfig log anyway....
[02:10] <ogra__> haha
[02:10] <ogra__> dexconf error
[02:10] <ogra__> cannot generate configuration file
[02:10] <ogra__> mdz: same error as Cimmerian had
[02:11] <mdz> ogra__: please send me the whole log
[02:11] <ogra__> yep
[02:11] <mdz> I need the debug output
[02:11] <ogra__> you'll get it, dot worry , but i'm happy i could see an error finally.... less wasnt helpful at all 
[02:11] <mdz> less works fine for me; I use it on base-config.log all the time
[02:12] <ogra__> hmm... searching for xserver did return nothing... but as i said, my logfile is one long singel line.... with tons of escape sequences in it
[02:13] <mdz> no it isn't
[02:13] <ogra__> probably caused by my locale
[02:13] <mdz> oh, maybe it is with the progress bar now
[02:13] <ogra__> it is... you'll see it
[02:13] <mdz> it's not very useful for it to store the progress bar output; it should save the aptitude output instead
[02:14] <ogra__> that'd be ailly, i'd assume it logs the tty4 output, not tty1
[02:14] <ogra__> aptitude has its own log here
[02:14] <ogra__> s/ailly/sily
[02:14] <ogra__> grmpf
[02:14] <mdz> if it's all escape sequences and no aptitude/dpkg output, then it's almost certainly the progress bar
[02:14] <mdz> you can 'cat' it and see
[02:15] <mdz> anyway, please send whichever log has the xorg debug output in it :-)
[02:15] <ogra__> i'll try as soon as the install is done
[02:15] <ogra__> yup :)
[02:18] <Cimmerian> yeah, when i did a grep on the file, i saw the progressbar
[02:19] <ogra__> a grep ? 
[02:20] <Cimmerian> yes, grep xserver-xorg base-config.log
[02:20] <ogra__> oh, scrollkeeper registration seems broken as well... a lot of xml errors suddenly....
[02:21] <ogra__> wow, indeed
[02:22] <ogra__> yeah and piping it to less brings up rthe esc sequences....
[02:22] <ogra__> fun to read that...
[02:26] <mdz> ogra: can I get that debug output please?
[02:26] <ogra> mdz, snet
[02:26] <ogra> sent even
[02:26] <mdz> thanks
[02:27] <ogra> had to change to a usable mailer first :) 
[02:29] <mdz> ogra: please send /var/cache/debconf/config.dat also
[02:29] <ogra> ok
[02:32] <mdz> this log does not have the debug output from xserver-xorg.config, only from postinst
[02:32] <ogra__> hmm, i exported  DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes on top of base-config
[02:33] <mdz> it has part of it
[02:33] <mdz> xserver-xorg config note: autodetected X server driver: mga
[02:33] <mdz> it ends after that
[02:33] <mdz> even though that is only halfway through the script
[02:33] <ogra> mdz, want ssh acess ? 
[02:33] <mdz> ogra: ok
[02:36] <mdz> ogra: you still have my key?
[02:37] <mdz> ogra: I sent it again anyway
[02:37] <mdz> ogra: please file a bug about this: xserver-xorg config note: no video driver modules found in
[02:37] <mdz>    /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers
[02:37] <mdz> I think it is unrelated, but seems like a bug anyway
[02:38] <mdz> hmm, maybe not
[02:38] <mdz> those files will never be there on initial install, but will be on upgrades
[02:39] <mdz> it should probably be smarter, but not worth spending time on it right now
[02:42] <ogra_> GRR
[02:50] <mdz> ok, confirmed the bug
[02:50] <mdz> there is supposed to be a sanity check for this but it isn't working
[02:50] <ogra_> ah
[02:50] <mdz> is this in bugzilla yet?
[02:51] <mdz> 13532
[02:51] <ogra_> no idea, only the bug Cimmerian filed i guess...
[02:51] <ogra_> yup, thats it
[02:55] <mdz> ogra_: ok, please test if X starts with the current xorg.conf on the system
[02:57] <ogra__> eeks... /etc/X11/default-display-manager: File not found
[02:57] <ogra__> startx works tough .... with 2 nice xterms
[02:59] <mdz> maybe default-display-manager was broken by my --force-depends action
[02:59] <mdz> but it does generate a config file with my patch
[02:59] <ogra__> it worked before... so it must be you
[02:59] <ogra__> :)
[03:04] <mdz> uploading xorg_6.8.2-50
[03:04] <ogra_> yay
[03:09] <ogra_> mdz, if you dont need me anymore i'd go to bed now (working since 17h) ...
[03:10] <mdz> ogra_: good night
[03:10] <ogra_> mdz, could i ask for a favor ? could you trigger a new edubuntu daily if the fix is up ? 
[03:11] <Keybuk> oh good, so the one remaining source import on my list of bugs turns out to be a baz bug
[03:11] <Keybuk> there had to be one in there somewhere
[03:11] <Keybuk> console-tools? nobody uses that anyway, right
[03:19] <bytee> quick question. making a small change in a LiveCD (like removing a 2MB package), seems to be a major change in the ISO (i.e. if you rsync, it may take 500MB of changes). anyone know why?
[03:21] <Keybuk> cause filesystems aren't generally designed to cause minimum changes
[03:28] <bytee> thats when i thought xdelta might help; but it didn't
[03:28] <mdz> ogra_: I think so, yes
[03:29] <mdz> bytee: the free space in the filesystem still contains the old data
[03:29] <Keybuk> xdelta isn't actually really any more or less clever than diff
[03:52] <mgalvin> just a heads up... 20050616.8 i386 install worked just fine for me
[03:54] <mgalvin> mouse wheel scrolling is still not enabled during the install, gotta go do that myself
[04:06] <mdz> mgalvin: thanks
[04:07] <mgalvin> np
[04:50] <mpt> AndyFitz!
[04:52] <jammcq> mdz: hey, jbailey gave me an updated initramfs package, I installed it. how do I re-generate the initramfs for the ltsp client?
[05:06] <mdz> jammcq: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-6-386
[05:08] <jammcq> mdz: thanks
[05:08] <mdz> jbailey: we probably ought to include a script in initramfs-tools to make that easy
[05:09] <jbailey> mdz: For ltsp specifically or just one in general?
[05:09] <jammcq> i've got a real nice Via 1ghz machine with PXE that i'm gonna test in a few minutes
[05:09] <mdz> jbailey: one in general, though it's more interesting for ltsp because `uname -r` doesn't give you the kernel you want
[05:12] <jbailey> mdz: It would be easy enough to add a default of some sort to assume /boot/initrd.img-${version}.  Right now -o is the only non-optional command line.  I think I just need to come up with another option of some sort so that running "mkinitramfs" on its own doesn't suddeny cause your bootup files to get overwritten.
[05:14] <jdub> mdz: what time is it there?
[05:15] <mdz> jdub: 2015
[05:15] <jdub> thanks
[05:16] <mdz> jdub: TZ=America/Los_Angeles date
[05:16] <jdub> haha
[05:16] <jdub> "oh, underscore"
[05:16] <jdub> :-)
[05:19] <mdz> jdub: TZ=Am<tab>/Los<tab> ;-)
[05:27] <jammcq> jbailey: if yer still awake,  your new initramfs seems to work here :)
[05:27] <jdub> mdz: i fart in your shell's direction!
[05:27] <jammcq> mdz: I can boot a Via 1ghz thin client, from power-on, to GUI login prompt in 1:24
[05:28] <jammcq> and you haven't even tuned it for speed yet :)
[05:28] <jbailey> jammcq: Awesome!  I'm glad it's working!
[05:29] <jdub> :-)
[05:29] <jammcq> heh
[05:29] <jdub> hrm, ignoring lack of kernel involved in that... ;)
[05:29] <jdub> linuxbios looks really sweet now
[05:29] <jdub> they're using it in missiles
[05:30] <mpt> It's times like these I wish wiki.ubuntu.com's FortuneCookies page wasn't read-only
[05:30] <Keybuk> I love the way Dan Jacobson not only files lots of trivial bugs
[05:30] <Keybuk> but duplicates himself
[05:37] <jammcq> jbailey: bad news, i spoke too soon
[05:37] <jbailey> jammcq: Oh?
[05:37] <jammcq> apparently, my Via doesn't have a problem, but sbalneav is still having a problem with his 533mhz via
[05:38] <jammcq> I sent him my iniramfs image, and it still fails for him
[05:38] <sbalneav> Evening all!
[05:38] <jbailey> jammcq: Do you know if it's failing in the same way?
[05:38] <jbailey> And speaking of... =)
[05:38] <infinity> jbailey : Fix all my bugs too!!11@@
[05:38] <sbalneav> jbailey: Hey Jeff!  Yeah, failing the same way.
[05:40] <jbailey> sbalneav: So it doesn't drop you to a shell or anytyhing, right?
[05:41] <crimsun> hmm, is this the lvm issue?
[05:41] <jbailey> sbalneav: Can you please go into an empty subdirectory and do zcat  INITRAMFS | cpio -i
[05:41] <jbailey> Make sure it's empty, it unpacks in the current directory
[05:41] <sbalneav> jbailey: No.  It doesnt.  OK, will do.
[05:42] <jbailey> crimsun: The one where it copes poorly with VGs with -'s in it?
[05:42] <crimsun> jbailey: right
[05:42] <jbailey> crimsun: Or do you have a different issue?
[05:42] <jbailey> crimsun: Yeah, I think I decided that if it fails I'm going to fall back to a vgchange -ay for now.
[05:42] <jbailey> I'm going to sleep on it though.
[05:43] <crimsun> jbailey: cool
[05:43] <jbailey> It's either that or just try adding segments of it until I get a match.
[05:43] <jbailey> I don't do a vgchange -ay right now because in a multipath setup, not all the paths might be available, so there's a risk of confusing lvm.
[05:43] <sbalneav> jbailey: Done.
[05:44] <jbailey> sbalneav: Can you look in the lib subdir and see if libc.so.6 is in there?
[05:44] <jbailey> Or if it's buried in a lib/tls directory somewhere?
[05:45] <sbalneav> jbailey: it's in /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
[05:45] <jbailey> sbalneav: And this is the initramfs file that jammcq sent you, or did you generate one on your own again?
[05:46] <jbailey> If it's the same one, then jammcq's machine shouldn't have booted with it in that place.
[05:46] <jammcq> jbailey: just figured out the 1ghz Via is quite a bit different from the 533
[05:47] <jammcq> mine supports CMOV, the 533 doesn't
[05:47] <infinity> Yes, very much so.
[05:47] <jbailey> Ah, via finally grew the useful instructions, eh?
[05:47] <sbalneav> This is one that jammcq sent me.  But it looks as if his version of processor DOES support the cmov instruction.
[05:47] <infinity> jbailey : Yes, the latest ones off the line are a whole new core and seem to be significantly spiffier in a variety of ways.
[05:47] <jbailey> But still, 0.21 is supposed to unconditionally not use that.  The testcase I have here does
[05:47] <jammcq> jbailey: spoken like a true canadian
[05:48] <jammcq> ok, running of the 0.21 is confusing me
[05:48] <jbailey> Hmm.
[05:48] <jammcq> mdz says to run it chrooted to /opt/ltsp/i386
[05:48] <jammcq> BUT
[05:48] <jbailey> Yeah
[05:48] <jbailey> Did you install the initramfs-tools in that chroot? =)
[05:48] <jammcq> how would it then drop the files into /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp ?
[05:48] <jammcq> jbailey: nope, but sbalneav did
[05:49] <jbailey> Sounds like there's a couple steps that might need to be done then.
[05:49] <sbalneav> I did it in the chroot environment.
[05:50] <jammcq> when you run that dpkg-reconfigure in the chroot, where is it supposed to drop the new initramfs ?
[05:50] <jbailey> The dpkg -i was done in the chroot as well?
[05:50] <jbailey> jammcq: It would have to be in the chroot.  It can't see out.
[05:50] <infinity> jammcq : In /boot/ in the chroot.
[05:50] <infinity> jammcq : Well, in /boot/, if that's what /etc/kernel-img.conf says.
[05:51] <sbalneav> yup.  Copied the .deb to /opt/ltsp/i386, chrooted there, dpkg -i initramfs-tools....deb, dpkg-reconfigure initramfs-tools.
[05:51] <sbalneav> That was the sequence from my end
[05:51] <infinity> That shouild be dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-6-686 (or whatever image you have installed)
[05:51] <infinity> dpkg-reconfigure initramfs-tools won't do much for you.
[05:52] <jammcq> doh
[05:52] <infinity> jbailey : I want a "regenrate initramfs for every image I have installed" options.
[05:53] <infinity> jbailey : Like mkinitramfs -a --force --yes-i-know-this-may-leave-me-with-no-way-to-boot, or something.
[05:53] <jammcq> how does the new kernel and initramfs image get from /opt/ltsp/i386/boot to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp ?
[05:53] <jammcq> which is where tftpd serves it up from
[05:54] <infinity> No idea, but mdz's only been idle for 7 minutes, maybe he can explain it. :)
[05:54] <infinity> When I did tftp/nfsroot stuff back in the day, I used to do all my chroot maintenance through a wrapper that would copy stuff around as a last step.
[05:55] <jbailey> infinity: What should it do?  Any file that matches '/boot/initrd.img-PATTERN' ?
[05:56] <infinity> Alternately, if /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp and /opt/ltsp/i386 share a similar layout, one could bind-mound them to make sure they're always in sync.  THat could be clever. :)
[05:56] <jbailey> Hates the bind mounts.
[05:56] <jbailey> I'm still bitter about wiping my homedir by accident.
[05:56] <jdub> *ow*
[05:56] <infinity> jbailey : I wiped my home directory in the great bind mount fire of... Uhh... April.
[05:57] <infinity> jbailey : But I later discovered it in another chroot.  (!)
[05:57] <jbailey> Ahahaha.
[05:57] <sbalneav> jbailey: yeah that was it.  Didn't even think about the sanity of reconfigureing the tools, and not the kernel.  Fixded.
[05:57] <jbailey> sbalneav: Sweet!
[05:57] <jbailey> I like that answer. =)
[05:57] <infinity> (The kernel, in its infinite wisdom, decided that its canonical home was no longer /home, but /chroot/woody/home)
[05:58] <infinity> jbailey : 'rm -rf /chroot/potato' left me with no more home anywhere, except one in the woody chroot.  Very weird behavior.
[05:58] <jbailey> So hmm..  mkinitramfs --regenerate --all --no-warranty?
[05:58] <jdub> jbailey: --do-not-pass-go
[05:59] <jbailey> jdub: Well, I'd generally hope that it would actually work. =)
[06:01] <infinity> jbailey : Oh, and to finish the story and cement your hatre of bind mounts, /chroot is a seperate fielsystem, so that rm -rf actually MOVRF my /home to another disk.
[06:02] <sbalneav> Booted.  Sitting at a breezy desktop.
[06:02] <infinity> MOVED, eve.
[06:02] <jbailey> infinity: Ah cool.  Yeah, the separate filesystem saved me for all of my Ubuntu hacking stuff.
[06:02] <jbailey> infinity: That had been mounted under my home dir.
[06:02] <jbailey> sbalneav: Awesome!
[06:02] <Keybuk> people who use "rm -rf" deserve everything they get!
[06:03] <jbailey> sbalneav: This'll be in the archive tomorrow sometime.
[06:03] <jbailey> Keybuk: I saw a great piece of embroidery at the SIPB lag at MIT: "rm is forever"
[06:03] <Keybuk> though I do often wish for a "don't traverse mounts" option for rm
[06:03] <sbalneav> Keybuk: Yeah, much faster to do a cat /dev/null > /dev/hda :)
[06:03] <Keybuk> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda  is more traditional
[06:04] <jbailey> /dev/zero
[06:04] <infinity> Keybuk : A -x option equivalent to du would be nice.
[06:04] <jbailey> I think pulling from /dev/null should give an EOF right away.
[06:04] <Keybuk> infinity: you have a distro, get the patch-gun out
[06:04] <infinity> Keybuk : But, du -x doesn't seem to respect bind mounts anyway.
[06:06] <Keybuk> THIS IS SO FUCKING BROKEN I ... oh, I can fix it! :D
[06:12] <lifeless> jbailey: it does doesn't it ? dev null is empty, dev zero is 000's.
[06:22] <fabbione> morning
[06:23] <jbailey> Fabio's here, it's officially time to go to bed. =)
[06:23] <fabbione> ehehhe
[06:23] <fabbione> night jb :)
[06:31] <Keybuk> heh, yeah, I try and use that metric too
[06:31] <Keybuk> and if I miss that one, it's cron.daily
[06:31] <Keybuk> Subject: dpkg_1.13.11_i386.changes ACCEPTED
[06:31] <Keybuk> \o/ clearly bed-time
[06:32] <infinity> Yeah, I go to bed 48 times a day, at :03 and :33.
[06:32] <infinity> cron.daily rules.
[06:32] <Keybuk> there's a name for that
[06:32] <Keybuk> Polyphasic sleep?
[06:32] <infinity> Slut?
[06:32] <infinity> Oh, or that one.
[06:33] <infinity> I assume that new dpkg incorporated Kamion's Replaces fix from Ubuntu?
[06:33] <Keybuk> it did, yeah
[06:33] <Keybuk> though I doubt it'll hit Ubuntu because it's full of scary other fixes
[06:33] <Keybuk> like fixing the fact that dpkg's error unwinding has never worked
[06:34] <infinity> Yeah, reading the changelog now.
[06:34] <infinity> I mostly wanted to see Colin's fix in Debian, so tjhis is good enough for me.
[06:34] <infinity> It also means that dselect will finally do the C++ transition.  \o/
[06:39] <jdub> mdz: yes :-)
[06:41] <jdub> mdz: and you'll need to use it if you want to chat now (going away from terminal)
[06:47] <Treenaks> jdub: am I on planet ubuntu yet? :)
[07:38] <pitti> Morning!
[07:38] <pitti> fabbione: Herbert agreed to do the Hoary kernel as well
[07:38] <fabbione> pitti: ah cool... i was going to start today on it
[07:38] <fabbione> but that's EVEN SO MUCH BETTER :)
[07:38] <pitti> hehe
[07:41] <infinity> pitti : Oh, given our current stance on mozilla-* security, shoudl i just close 12865?
[07:43] <pitti> infinity: a patch system would still be nice, but this would rather be a bug for the debian maintainer, I guess
[07:44] <pitti> infinity: doing it on our own would be just messy...
[07:52] <fabbione> pitti: i am still missing a CAN number...
[07:53] <fabbione>         . Fix x86_64 memleak from malicious 32bit elf program.
[07:53] <fabbione>         (CAN-2005-XXXX)
[07:54] <pitti> fabbione: I will ask for one, but don't delay the upload just for that
[07:54] <fabbione> i need to wait for mdz to release colony 3 anyway
[07:56] <pitti> ah, ok
[07:56] <pitti> CAN requested
[07:58] <fabbione> thanks
[08:45] <siretart> morning
[08:46] <pitti> Hi siretart 
[08:46] <pitti> Moin JaneW 
[08:48] <siretart> hm. can anyone confirm this is indeed an arch repository? http://pkg-lyx.alioth.debian.org/devel/
[08:48] <JaneW> moin moin pitti ;)
[08:48] <siretart> I'm having problems checking it out
[08:48] <siretart> :(
[08:49] <Lathiat> anyone know that recently new ext3 driver for windows
[08:49] <Treenaks> siretart: Guessing archive format as tla 1.0. This is normal with old archives, you can ignore it unless other errors occur.
[08:49] <Lathiat> ah i foudn it
[08:50] <siretart> Treenaks: I always get 'PANIC: Invalid archive given', when trying to rbrowse. how to check it out?
[08:50] <JaneW> pitti: can I ask you about PrintingRoadmap quickly, it seems agreed that the majority of it will be deferred, but mdz said that 'the one piece of that which we should attempt is hplip support out of the box' Do you know if anyone can or will do that in time for Breezy?
[08:50] <fabbione> pitti: can you please ask Herbert to check this patch: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2005/07/msg00231.html ?
[08:51] <Treenaks> siretart: that works for me
[08:51] <Treenaks> siretart: but baz get telsl me:
[08:51] <Treenaks> archive not registered: rweir@ertius.org--2004-debian
[08:51] <fabbione> pitti: we are affected by that problem and it's a one liner that would fix raid memory leak
[08:51] <Treenaks> siretart: so there's a redirect somewhere?
[08:52] <Treenaks> siretart: but rweir _sounds_ like bob2, so ask him :)
[08:52] <siretart> Treenaks: I have no idea. I try to fix lyx for ubuntu, and found that. I hoped that would be the archive of the lyx packaging team
[08:52] <siretart> bob2: around?
[08:54] <pitti> JaneW: I can't test it, don't have such a printer; in theory, doko, daniels, and mdz can do it
[08:54] <JaneW> pitti: ok, in the mean time I'll move the rest to deferred...
[08:55] <infinity> daniels doesn't have a printer.
[08:55] <pitti> not any more? hm, ok
[08:55] <pitti> he had in the past
[08:55] <infinity> Not since he moved out of his father's house.
[08:55] <pitti> ah, ok
[08:55] <pitti> I don't have a printer any more since my flatmate moved to Switzerland
[08:55] <pitti> fabbione: I'll check
[08:55] <Treenaks> I have 2 broken printers..
[08:55] <pitti> fabbione: ah, got the last CAN, I mail you
[08:56] <fabbione> pitti: perfect
[08:56] <doko> pitti: yes, I can do that ... (I should have been quiet about my printer :-/)
[08:59] <jane_> got disconnected - mutter
[08:59] <jane_> doko: are you prepared to do it, and do you have capacity? (please please please)
[09:00] <jane_> did colony 3 release yet? (the topic implies not)
[09:00] <doko> jane_: who can say no to that ... 
[09:02] <jane_> doko: yay, thanks *hug*
[09:06] <jane_> doko: can I mark it as WIP? (chancing my luck now! *duck)
[09:07] <doko> jane_: yes
[09:07] <jane_> doko: *bounce* you rock
[09:18] <jsgotangco> hi sabdfl
[09:19] <pitti> Moin seb128
[09:19] <pitti> elmo: please sync pstotext
[09:20] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:21] <pitti> sjoerd: here by chance?
[09:21] <sjoerd> pitti: yeah
[09:21] <pitti> cool
[09:22] <pitti> darn, where's daniels
[09:22] <pitti> anyway
[09:22] <pitti> sjoerd: yesterday, seb128 and me talked again about not restarting dbus and hal on upgrades
[09:22] <pitti> sjoerd: I was finally convinced about it
[09:22] <pitti> sjoerd: what would you think about the Debian side?
[09:23] <sjoerd> about not restarting it you mean ?
[09:23] <pitti> yes
[09:23] <pitti> more and more upstreams use dbus, and we can't keep up with patching them all
[09:23] <sjoerd> it sucks, but your right
[09:23] <pitti> even right now we only patched g-v-m and update-notifier
[09:23] <pitti> gvfs, panel, etc. still break
[09:24] <seb128> pitti: <daniels>       i'm trying not to ship *any* .la's
[09:24] <seb128> pitti: (dbus.la bug)
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok, so on purpose
[09:24] <seb128> yep
[09:24] <seb128> you can read the changelog, I put them back to fix some build, and out again and rebuilt n-c-b/hal
[09:25] <seb128> if an another .la mention it we just have to push a rebuild
[09:25] <seb128> (was just to mention it, didn't want to break your dbus/hal discussion)
[09:26] <pitti> seb128: ah, I read it again, thanks
[09:26] <seb128> I comment on bug?
[09:26] <pitti> seb128, sjoerd: well, we all seem to agree about dbus
[09:26] <pitti> seb128: let's just close it as NOTABUG then
[09:26] <seb128> I'll ask if there is a .la mentionning it, that would mean a package to rebuild
[09:27] <seb128> but right
[09:27] <seb128> sjoerd: you agree with not restarting?
[09:28] <sjoerd> I agree with the fact that we can't patch everything out there...
[09:29] <seb128> right
[09:29] <sjoerd> i still think that it's a stupid mentality from dbus upstream :)
[09:29] <pitti> sjoerd: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13312, btw
[09:30] <pitti> sjoerd: I agree, it's a lazy school of thought
[09:30] <pitti> sjoerd: I don't like it either, but reality is just against us, I'm afraid
[09:30] <sjoerd> yup
[09:30] <seb128> I kind of understand them ... they prefer to put this amount of work to something else
[09:31] <sjoerd> so for dbus 0.3x and hal 0.5.x i'll just follow ubuntu's path of not restarting...
[09:31] <sjoerd> probably have some time next week to sink ubuntu's packages into debian experimental again..
[09:31] <seb128> sjoerd: do we have an i386 build now? :)
[09:31] <pitti> sjoerd: ok
[09:32] <sjoerd> seb128: nope, just sparc and ppc
[09:32] <seb128> bah
[09:32] <pitti> sjoerd: I can build i386 packages on my server if wanted
[09:32] <pitti> but isn't experimental autobuilt now?
[09:32] <seb128> not for i386 apparently
[09:32] <sjoerd> apparently not
[09:32] <sivang> morning all
[09:33] <pitti> sjoerd: ok, ping me, I'll build them
[09:33] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:33] <infinity> I should set up an i386/experimental buildd.
[09:33] <seb128> pitti: so many people use i386 that nobody bother to do an autobuilder for it :)
[09:33] <sjoerd> every dd who's interested can do a binary-only build for x86, i don't really care 
[09:33] <sivang> hey pitti , what's up?
[09:33] <infinity> AFAIK, there isn't one.
[09:33] <sjoerd> apparently nobody cared enough for the dbus experimental package :)
[09:33] <seb128> yeah
[09:35] <seb128> hi JaneW
[09:35] <JaneW> hi seb
[09:36] <sjoerd> seb128: the suckiest part of it all is that more dbus services will come and if one of them dies/restarts your complete desktop could misbehave
[09:36] <sjoerd> but well, can't fix the whole world :)
[09:36] <seb128> I've tried to argue with upstreams/redhat/suse guys some days ago
[09:37] <seb128> hitting a wall is the same
[09:37] <sjoerd> yeah i know
[09:37] <JaneW> doko: OOLocalisation is one of the only pending goals left. I see you are waiting on responses etc, but do you think anything will get done on this in time for Breezy? or is it another defer candidate?
[09:44] <doko> JaneW: I'll update the status, that is mostly done
[09:44] <JaneW> doko: great, want me to do it for you? I am busy editing...
[09:45] <doko> JaneW: ok, I want to talk with carlos first
[09:46] <JaneW> doko: ok
[09:52] <siretart> infinity: do you know about libdps-dev? In debian, it is build by xorg, I miss it in breezy
[09:52] <siretart> infinity: I found a package in universe (pstoedit) which build depends on it, perhaps there are more
[09:55] <infinity> siretart : It's gone, completely, including upstream.
[09:55] <infinity> siretart : Anything build-depending on it should be taught not to.
[09:55] <siretart> i.e. be removed?
[09:55] <infinity> siretart : Debian won't have it as soon as they move to Xorg 6.9 or 7.0, 6.8 was the last release that had it.
[09:56] <siretart> hm
[09:58] <infinity> siretart : There is no free implementation of DPS in any xserver, so any client linking to that library can't actually USE it to display anything anyway.
[09:58] <infinity> siretart : Teach the packages to not use those features, and you're golden.
[10:00] <seb128> pitti: xorg issues with your amd64 liveCD?
[10:01] <infinity> siretart : At a quick glance, pstoedit doesn't actually appear to directly link or call anything in dps, so you should be able to just drop the build-dep.
[10:01] <siretart> infinity: I try with pstoedit
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: yes, that stopped me pretty early
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: mdz fixed that last night, IIRC
[10:02] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I'm waiting for a new CD, I had the same issue with the amd64 liveCD this night
[10:02] <pitti> Hi chmj 
[10:02] <pitti> chmj: I checked the bluez-utils vuln again, warty and hoary are not affected
[10:03] <pitti> chmj: can you please add the CAN number to the changelog on your next upload?
[10:03] <siretart> infinity: what do you know, you are perfectly right!
[10:03] <siretart> infinity: thanks!
[10:04] <lifeless> is breezy considered dogfoodable now ?
[10:04] <pitti> lifeless: upgrade should work reasonably
[10:05] <infinity> lifeless : Works For Me(tm)
[10:08] <seb128> is there an "official" way to make an /etc file not a conffile?
[10:08] <seb128> or should I hack <package>/DEBIAN/conffiles?
[10:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, why do you want to do that?
[10:08] <seb128> because the gdm Debian maintainer does it for a file
[10:09] <seb128> and we have a dpkg question on upgrade
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: usually files shipped in debs are conffiles
[10:09] <seb128> yeah, but I'm not going to argue with the Debian maintainer
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: if not, you need to ship it in /usr/share, and cp it in the postinst
[10:09] <seb128> and hoary has this file as not a conffile
[10:10] <JaneW> has anyone seen  Unfrgiven around recently?
[10:10] <seb128> the gdm Debian package does "perl -pi -e 's#^/etc/gdm/factory-gdm.conf\n##sm' debian/gdm/DEBIAN/conffiles
[10:10] <seb128> "
[10:10] <pitti> seb128: just do [ -e /etc/file ]  || install -m 644 /usr/share/gdm/file /etc/file
[10:10] <pitti> or so
[10:10] <seb128> pitti: as ugly as the conffiles hack imho :)
[10:10] <pitti> seb128: the best way would be to transition it to become a conffile
[10:10] <pitti> that would solve the problem once and for all
[10:11] <pitti> but is tricky to do
[10:11] <seb128> "transition"?
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: hard because you can't tell whether it was changed
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: however, you can hardcode the md5sum of the unmodified file into the preinst
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: so check the md5dum in preinst, and if it matches, just delete it
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: then you won't get a question if you never touched it
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: however, that only works if the file didn't change too often in the past
[10:13] <seb128> right
[10:13] <seb128> not the case for this one
[10:13] <\sh> morning
[10:13] <seb128> it contains the gdm config
[10:13] <seb128> so every time an option has been changed it moved
[10:14] <seb128> I'll do the same as the Debian package probably
[10:15] <pitti> seb128: so the perl hack is done in debian/rules? or in postinst?
[10:16] <seb128> debian/rules after dh_installdeb
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: ah, so after DEBIAN/conffiles is generated... how ugly
[10:16] <seb128> yeah
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: Debian should fix this - this file should be a conffile
[10:17] <seb128> yeah, Debian should have a correct gdm package
[10:17] <seb128> ie: not outdated for 1 6 month
[10:17] <seb128> and with a proper packaging and not all the changes to the diff.gz
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: ah, I remember, this was a messy package... :-(
[10:18] <seb128> yeah, that's still
[10:18] <Lathiat> blah the installer decided to use lilo instead of grub and then the boto breaks due to the lilo/initramfs thing
[10:19] <Lathiat> Anyone noticed the first time DHCP happens in the installer it never works for them? same thing happens on the livecd, it never works i retry or do it manually an dit works instantly
[10:19] <chmj> pitti: pong, ok will do
[10:19] <pitti> $ sudo dpkg -P --force-depends --force-remove-essential login
[10:19] <pitti> uuh...
[10:20] <mvo> Lathiat: dhcp seems to work fine here on my test-install
[10:20] <Lathiat> mvo: hrm
[10:20] <pitti> Lathiat: for me, too
[10:20] <Lathiat> happens every single time without fail
[10:20] <pitti> mvo: btw, I still don't get a correct position for the u-n notification
[10:21] <pitti> mvo: it points too far to the left, and the arrow is at the standard position
[10:21] <pitti> mvo: I though you fixed the arrow?
[10:21] <mvo> pitti: what version? I uploaded 0.40.4 yesterday
[10:21] <pitti> mvo: oh, ok, I'll upgrade
[10:21] <pitti> mvo: I though you fixed this in n-d
[10:21] <mvo> pitti: yes, I fixed the arrow, the next problem is to figure where to actually point to :)
[10:21] <mvo> and that needs to be done in u-n
[10:22] <pitti> mvo: updated, restarted, still wrong position
[10:22] <mvo> during startup it give some funny values when the widget is asked for it's position (-1,-1;0,0,-1,1187 ...)
[10:22] <pitti> mvo: want a screenshot?
[10:22] <mvo> pitti: yes please (you restarted u-n)?
[10:23] <pitti> mvo: yes, killall and restart
[10:23] <mvo> hrm, bad. a screenshot would be nice. what arch?
[10:23] <pitti> mvo: amd64 :-)
[10:24] <pitti> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/shots/u-n-pos.png
[10:24] <Treenaks> pitti: Maybe there are x-chat updates?
[10:24] <Treenaks> *hide*
[10:25] <Lathiat> the notifier dialogs dont scale for DPI
[10:26] <Lathiat> cus when my DPI is at 120 they almost hit the edge
[10:26] <Lathiat> possibly because its being squashed up against the side to try stick the arrow on the udpate notifier
[10:26] <Lathiat> without moving the arrow
[10:26] <mvo> pitti: I assume your notification-daemon is at the latest version?
[10:26] <pitti> mvo: oops, I have 0.2.2-0ubuntu1 
[10:27] <pitti> that was a test version
[10:27] <pitti> sorry
[10:27] <mvo> pitti: no problem 
[10:27] <seb128> evince really rocks
[10:27] <mvo> Lathiat: there are still arrow placement issues when the position is e.g. at the very, very far end of the right-hand side
[10:27] <seb128> the text selection is rocking
[10:27] <mvo> Lathiat: (and on a lot of other places too)
[10:28] <pitti> mvo: works now, rock! (and sorry for the noise)
[10:29] <mvo> pitti: no worries :)
[10:31] <seb128> grumpf
[10:31] <seb128> pitti: does "gdmflexiserver --xnest" still open this selection list ofr you?
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: right now I only get an error dialog "new display could not be started"
[10:33] <srijith> read from forum that you guys are looking for laptop testers
[10:33] <srijith> is that still on or are there enough tesrers?
[10:33] <srijith> s/tesrers/testers
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: if I choose "new login" from the menu, I still get the selection list
[10:34] <seb128> grumpf
[10:34] <seb128> oh right
[10:34] <seb128> interesting
[10:34] <seb128> thanks :)
[10:35] <seb128> I was trying with --xnest
[10:39] <mdz> seb128: new live CDs building now
[10:39] <seb128> mdz: cool
[10:39] <mdz> should fix the X issue
[10:40] <mdz> I don't think I will stay awake for them, though
[10:40] <seb128> I'm ready to sync/try :)
[10:40] <mdz> but I would like to know if they work for you
[10:42] <seb128> mdz: when should the new image be available?
[10:42] <mvo> mdz: is it a know problem that the language-pack-gnome-en-{base} are missing on the install cd?
[10:43] <mdz> mvo: dunno, ask pitti
[10:43] <mdke> after a dist-upgrade from colony 2, I get 4 grub entries instead of 2, 2 for the 2.6.10 kernel, and 2 for the 2.5.12 kernel: is this problem known?
[10:43] <mdz> seb128: the live builds are fairly quick; should be ~10m
[10:43] <pef> hi
[10:43] <mvo> mdz: I just did a test-install and it hangs because it wants to fetch them from the net
[10:43] <mdz> it will be 20050817
[10:44] <seb128> cool
[10:44] <mdz> mvo: why hangs?
[10:44] <mvo> mdz: for some reason a apt-get update failed and no gpg signatures are available anymore. then aptitude prompts and the installer can't cope with that
[10:45] <pitti> mvo: ah, I'll seed them
[10:45] <mvo> (prompts for unauthenticated packages)
[10:46] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[10:46] <pitti> mvo: hm, the powerpc install cd is already full, so there's only room for gnome-en
[10:46] <pitti> mvo: (gosh, there was space before, who filled it???)
[10:47] <mdz> pitti: first come, first served ;-)
[10:47] <mvo> pitti: I didn't :) (/me whistles innocently)
[10:48] <mvo> mdz: I guess the real fix is to make libapt smarter about failed updates? (recheck the available signatures against a failed download or make the whole operation either all or nothing)?
[10:49] <pitti> mdz: ok, I throw some other langpacks off the powerpc CD, it does not make sense to have the base, but not the gnome translation
[10:49] <mdz> mvo: the update should fail if the .gpg retrievals failed for a non-transient reason
[10:50] <mvo> hm, why does base-config try a aptitude update before it has network...
[10:50] <mvo> mdz: ok, I have a look at this today
[10:51] <seb128> mdz: is that ok to package the new djvulibre? It has a new soname, but nothing out of evince use it, and the current evince what a new version of nothing (we can also build evince without djvulibre)?
[10:52] <seb128> (after colony 3)
[10:57] <mdz> seb128: does evince require the latest djvulibre?
[10:57] <seb128> w/what/want/ on my previous sentence
[10:57] <seb128> "evince wants a new version of nothing (we can also build evince without djvulibre)"
[10:58] <mvo> hm, stage2 seems to not bring up the network but tries to get various stuff from the net
[10:59] <dholbach> hey
[11:00] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[11:00] <jsgotangco> hi
[11:00] <dholbach> hey martin, michael, jerome! how are you guys? :)
[11:00] <ogra_> wohoo dholbach
[11:01] <dholbach> oliver! :)
[11:01] <sivang> mdz: are you ok with me trying to patch default applets for lpint until UI freeze? 
[11:01] <siretart> huhu dholbach!
[11:01] <sivang> dholbach: hey :)
[11:02] <mdz> seb128: live CD builds are up
[11:02] <dholbach> hi everybody - i've good news: i'll bring my thesis to printing and binding today :-D
[11:03] <mdz> sivang: applets, such as which?
[11:03] <jdub> elmo: planet update please :-)
[11:03] <ajmitch> dholbach: great! :)
[11:03] <sivang> mdz: those that come with the gnome-panel package, mostly
[11:03] <pitti> mvo: seeding completed
[11:03] <jsgotangco> nice
[11:03] <siretart> dholbach: congratulations!
[11:03] <siretart> :)
[11:04] <dholbach> thanks :)
[11:04] <pitti> dholbach: contrats, great to hear!
[11:04] <pitti> dholbach: when you will defend it?
[11:04] <dholbach> pitti: september, 2nd
[11:05] <jdub> dholbach: woohoo!
[11:05] <mvo> dholbach: I'll be in the crowd that listens
[11:05] <Nafallo> jdub: you got my mailinglist-request? :-)
[11:05] <jsgotangco> dholbach, i will slay a goat and burn it as an offering to your success heh
[11:05] <jdub> Nafallo: yes, will sort out when ig et home tonight
[11:05] <Nafallo> jdub: kewl :-)
[11:06] <dholbach> pitti: i'll move to berlin, work on another project with my dad and prepare the presentation in between - so i'll still be busy :)
[11:06] <dholbach> jdub: mine too? :)
[11:06] <jdub> dholbach: same answer :-)
[11:06] <dholbach> jsgotangco: that's too kind of you :)
[11:06] <ajmitch> dholbach: well done on getting it finished
[11:06] <dholbach> i'm so relieved already
[11:06] <jsgotangco> finishing a thesis is always feels good
[11:06] <infinity> mdz : If you're building livecds based on the images that built 3 hours ago, you're probably missing your /dev/tty* fix, which I think was uploaded after that.
[11:06] <jsgotangco> (of course there's still the defense..but)
[11:07] <Nafallo> dholbach: nice one indeed :-)
[11:07] <mdz> infinity: I put a workaround into casper
[11:07] <sivang> mdz: for starters; clock, fish, notification_area, wncklet
[11:07] <infinity> mdz : Ahh, if it's fixed in casper, then perhaps I should pull the makedev fix.  This does only affect livecds, afterall.
[11:07] <seb128> mdz: cool, /me sync
[11:07] <mdz> infinity: it's sort of a corner case, but I think it's broader than live CDs
[11:07] <mdz> I'm not sure where best to fix it at this point
[11:08] <mdz> but it's time to sleep
[11:08] <mdz> sivang: let's talk about it in 7+ hours
[11:08] <ogra_> can someone explain me how i trigger a cd build for edubuntu ? 
[11:08] <seb128> mdz: about djvulibre?
[11:08] <seb128> mdz: let's talk about it later if you want, there is no hurry that's for after colony 3 anyway
[11:08] <jdub> mdz: were you intending to call earlier?
[11:08] <mdz> ogra_: you ask me, or colin when he isn't off getting married
[11:09] <mdz> seb128: yes, let's talk about it after I've slept
[11:09] <ogra_> mdz, is this much work ? or could yu do it? i'd like to benefit from thecolony base
[11:09] <mdz> jdub: I'd never successfully gotten in touch with you via that number and was wondering if I should delete it from my directory
[11:09] <sivang> mdz: sure, thanks
[11:09] <mdz> ogra_: there is no colony 3 yet
[11:09] <ogra_> oops
[11:10] <\sh> grmpf..what was the daily iso download url again?
[11:10] <ogra_> ok then...
[11:10] <sivang> mdz: night :)
[11:10] <mdz> night all
[11:10] <ogra_> night mdz 
[11:10] <dholbach> good night mdz
[11:10] <jdub> mdz: oh. i don't roam.
[11:10] <\sh> g'night mdz
[11:10] <ogra_> \sh, cdimage.ubuntu.com
[11:10] <mvo> good night mdz
[11:10] <\sh> ogra_: thx
[11:10] <jsgotangco> night
[11:10] <seb128> 'night mdz
[11:12] <fabbione> elmo: can you please lart katie to stop spamming me with that UNACCEPTED message
[11:12] <fabbione> night mdz
[11:12] <dholbach> hi fabbione :)
[11:14] <fabbione> hi dholbach 
[11:18] <\sh> ok...putting windwos xp again on this baby...and then trying new daily iso...for resizing ntfs partition
[11:35] <sivang> \sh: so now you are logged from a laptop ?
[11:36] <\sh> sivang: I'm on my hp nc6000
[11:36] <\sh> sivang: and I'm playing with the portege
[11:36] <volvoguy> \sh, don't say that word. :)
[11:37] <ogra_> playing or protege ? 
[11:37] <volvoguy> portege.
[11:37] <volvoguy> the bane of my existance.
[11:37] <seb128> trying the liveCD, brb
[11:38] <sivang> volvoguy: Aaaron! I've never caught you on IRC before :) How have you bee ?
[11:38] <sivang> s/bee/been/
[11:38] <\sh> volvoguy: believe me...it's just like a good looking girl...it looks nice..but it's a nasty b*tch sometimes ,-)
[11:38] <volvoguy> sivang, i'm still alive. still sore with back problems. trying to get back into the swing of things with the laptop and art teams.
[11:39] <volvoguy> \sh, i'm just bitter. i'm not even remotely close to getting Breezy installed on mine.
[11:39] <\sh> volvoguy: which one u have?
[11:39] <\sh> the S100?
[11:39] <sivang> \sh: what's portege ?
[11:40] <volvoguy> \sh, the Portege S100
[11:40] <volvoguy> sivang, Toshiba laptops.
[11:40] <\sh> sivang: toshiba portege r200
[11:40] <sivang> volvoguy: ah, cool
[11:40] <volvoguy> it's a kick-butt machine, but almost a little too  new for ubuntu thus far. 
[11:41] <\sh> volvoguy: well..u have a cdrom at least
[11:41] <volvoguy> sata drives connected to an intel chipset that does software raid (or some such thing)
[11:41] <jdub> volvoguy: have you checked the bios for sata/pata compatilibity mode options
[11:42] <volvoguy> \sh, yeah. the colony 2 live cd doesn't start x, but i just downloaded a nightly to try.
[11:43] <\sh> volvoguy: u see...I don't have one...;-) I just borrowed an usb dvd from a friend :)
[11:43] <pitti> jdub: I'm going to change dbus and hal now to not restart on upgrade; any objections?
[11:43] <volvoguy> jdub, the bios warns that all the data on the drive will be wiped if i convert it to a non-raid device. i could try that, but i thought part of the goal was to try to get breezy working on these out of the box - ie. leaving windows and resizing the NTFS partition.
[11:43] <\sh> volvoguy: forget it..the first thing i did...remove windows, cause resizing wasn't working
[11:44] <\sh> volvoguy: but I'll try resizing just now with new daily iso...
[11:44] <volvoguy> \sh, at the moment that's irrelevant because the installer doesn't recognize a hard disc. i could wipe it, change it to a non-raid disk, install windows and then start from there. 
[11:45] <\sh> do it :)
[11:45] <jdub> pitti: !!!
[11:45] <\sh> ok..lunch time...laters
[11:45] <volvoguy> if jdub or the laptop leaders give me the ok, i'll start right now. :)
[11:46] <Lathiat> mm
[11:46] <Lathiat> sata
[11:46] <Lathiat> i bet
[11:46] <volvoguy> Lathiat, yep. it's a sata drive.
[11:46] <Lathiat> laptop.. raid.. ? wah?
[11:47] <volvoguy> Lathiat, that's what i said. without removing the DVD/CDRW drive, you can add a second hard drive and do raid 1 or 0.
[11:47] <Lathiat> ah
[11:47] <Lathiat> crack smoking
[11:47] <volvoguy> i think i'll save that for the next major release. :)
[11:48] <Lathiat> so how will making it non-raid work?
[11:49] <jdub> it's the sata/pata stuff that really matters
[11:49] <volvoguy> the theory is that it's the new-fangled Intel software raid and chipset that is making the drive invisible to the installer.
[11:49] <Lathiat> ah
[11:49] <volvoguy> there are only two options in the bios for the HDD - RAID or JBOD. 
[11:50] <jdub> hrm, pia had one of these monsters
[11:50] <Lathiat> love the technicaly terms there
[11:50] <Lathiat> JBOD
[11:50] <volvoguy> PITA is what I say. :)
[11:52] <volvoguy> actually, i popped in here for a quick script question. i have a folder of svgz files that i want to convert to (gunzipped) svg files. any idea how i could do that recursively over a couple folders with hundreds of files? 
[11:53] <Mithrandir> find -name \*.svgz -print0 | xargs -0 gzip -d ?
[11:53] <volvoguy> lemme try. 
[11:55] <volvoguy> example result: gzip: ./zip.svgz: unknown suffix -- ignored
[11:56] <Mithrandir> try to add -f ?
[11:56] <Treenaks> add -Ssvgz
[11:56] <Treenaks> or -S""
[11:56] <volvoguy> to which part?
[11:56] <ogra_> the end
[11:56] <Treenaks> volvoguy: the gunzip/gzip part
[11:57] <volvoguy> -f gives same results.
[11:57] <Treenaks> volvoguy: try the -S
[11:57] <volvoguy> same.
[11:58] <volvoguy> like so, right? "find -name \*.svgz -print0 | xargs -0 gzip -d -S""
[11:59] <ogra_> take rather the -Ssvgz
[12:00] <volvoguy> like so? "find -name \*.svgz -print0 | xargs -0 gzip -d -Ssvgz" ?
[12:00] <ogra_> yup
[12:00] <volvoguy> same.
[12:01] <Treenaks> unknown suffix?
[12:01] <ogra_> ah...
[12:01] <ogra_> -S .svgz
[12:01] <volvoguy> gzip: ./zip.svgz: unknown suffix -- ignored
[12:01] <Treenaks> volvoguy: what ogra_ said
[12:01] <volvoguy> that stripped the extension completely.
[12:02] <ogra_> did it also unpack it ? 
[12:02] <volvoguy> they're indeed unpacked though. 
[12:02] <ogra_> :)
[12:03] <volvoguy> so what's the easy way now to add ".svg" to the end?
[12:04] <volvoguy> remember, i'm a graphic designer. using my right brain makes my head hurt. :)
[12:06] <volvoguy> i don't suppose it's as easy as "mv * *.svg"?
[12:07] <Treenaks> find -type f -exec mv \{} \{}.svg
[12:07] <Treenaks> I _think_
[12:07] <volvoguy> find: missing argument to `-exec'
[12:08] <Treenaks> uh yes
[12:08] <Treenaks> add \; to the end of that
[12:08] <Treenaks> find -type f -exec mv \{} \{}.svg \;
[12:08] <volvoguy> beautiful!
[12:08] <volvoguy> thanks guys! :)
[12:09] <Treenaks> ;)
[12:09] <volvoguy> :) thanks. 
[12:10] <volvoguy> while i'm in here, are any of you developer types close enough to the laptop testing team to give me the go-ahead to wipe this hard drive and start from scratch? 
[12:16] <dholbach> see you later
[12:16] <jsgotangco> bye daniel
[12:16] <dholbach> bye jerome :)
[12:16] <volvoguy> guess not, but that's ok. i'll just keep an eye on the bug i filed. thanks for the file manipulating help Treenaks. i'm off to sleep. 
[12:18] <volvoguy> g'night all! :)
[12:21] <seb128> mdz: the amd64 liveCD works fine for me now
[12:21] <seb128> (the french version is no really frenchy though)
[12:22] <ogra_> seb128, the gnome-langpacks arent on the CD yet...
[12:22] <seb128> I've noticed 
[12:24] <seb128> pitti: I've not really debugged but GNOME volumes have issues on the liveCD
[12:24] <pitti> ogra_: fixed in the seeds
[12:25] <seb128> the CD was named "cdrom" instead of "Ubuntu 5.10 amd64" by example
[12:25] <ogra_> oops
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: ok, I'll look at this
[12:26] <daniels> pitti: ping
[12:26] <pitti> Hi daniels 
[12:26] <seb128> hey daniels
[12:26] <daniels> hi all
[12:27] <ogra_> mvo, looks like #13496 still occurs.... jsgotangco just tried a test install... i'll try to check if its still this bug, burning....
[12:27] <daniels> pitti: i'm not really convinced on the dbus thing to be honest
[12:27] <pitti> daniels: I don't like it either
[12:27] <pitti> daniels: but seb128 and some other guys finally convinced me yesterday
[12:27] <pitti> daniels: it's ugly, but reality is against us :-(
[12:27] <Lathiat> what dbus thing?
[12:27] <daniels> Lathiat: not restarting it on upgrades
[12:27] <Lathiat> ah right
[12:28] <daniels> pitti: but then we get horrible cases like where you can't open new connections to the bus on some upgrades because it's too old
[12:28] <Lathiat> sounds like an idea to me
[12:28] <ogra_> pitti, daniels, err, how am i supposed to add a service to system.d without restarting ? 
[12:28] <seb128> I don't like guys, but I've enough to fight with upstream for that and we are all busy enough without having to patch all over the place against upstream
[12:28] <seb128> s/like/like that too/
[12:28] <pitti> ogra_: just start the service itself, e. g. /etc/dbus/event.d/20hal start
[12:28] <daniels> seb128: g-v-m upstream at least seemed willing to take our patch if it was clean, and gnome-power already got fixed
[12:29] <ogra_> pitti, thanks :)
[12:29] <pitti> daniels: hm? I recently talked to g-v-m upstream, and they rejected it
[12:29] <ogra_> daniels, ??
[12:29] <daniels> pitti: on utopia-list?
[12:29] <seb128> daniels: previous g-v-m upstream, fejj is ... no comment
[12:29] <daniels> ogra_: hm?
[12:29] <pitti> I got a whole bunch of "you are wrong" messages...
[12:29] <ogra_> daniels, gnome-power got fixed ? 
[12:29] <daniels> seb128: fejj maintains it?
[12:29] <pitti> daniels: yes
[12:29] <seb128> daniels: he's doing the work now yeah
[12:29] <daniels> ogra_: desrt said he was writing code to fix it, at any rate
[12:29] <seb128> daniels: they moved the evo team on the desktop
[12:29] <ogra_> daniels, i package it... 
[12:29] <daniels> seb128: oh.  yeah, I see.
[12:30] <daniels> seb128: fair enough then.
[12:30] <ogra_> daniels, hughsie (upstream) didnt say such a thin...
[12:30] <pitti> daniels: desrt agreed for battery applet, but he is opposed to it, too
[12:30] <ogra_> thing
[12:30] <daniels> ogra_: sorry, too late at night.  -battery-applet, not -power.
[12:30] <pitti> daniels: but gvfs and panel still break
[12:30] <seb128> daniels: walters complained too on #gnome-hackers some days ago
[12:30] <ogra_> ah... i was starting to get worried :)
[12:30] <pitti> ogra_: btw, for a true .service you don't need to restart dbus at all, it will just work
[12:31] <ogra_> pitti, ok... i took NM as example for my postinst....
[12:31] <seb128> daniels: and apps will keep using dbus for new stuff and we will have to keep patching other stuff, and get upstream angry when then get bugs due to that, etc
[12:31] <Lathiat> pitti: that doesnt suit all applications
[12:31] <pitti> Lathiat: "that" == ?
[12:31] <daniels> pitti: eep
[12:31] <daniels> seb128: yeah, I saw the scrollback on -hackers
[12:31] <Lathiat> pitti: activating a service when needed
[12:32] <daniels> seb128: i suppose it's a fair cop if we've decided we were fighting a losing battle, I was just really hoping we'd ... well, not lose it
[12:32] <seb128> daniels: imho we have better to do that fighting for months on that
[12:32] <pitti> Lathiat: right, e. g. hal is not a .service, so it has to start/stop itself
[12:32] <Lathiat> e.g. avahi, wants to be running all the time because it needs to respond to its name, etc
[12:32] <Lathiat> not just when an application wants it
[12:32] <seb128> daniels: we are all busy, upstream/redhat/suse guys are against us ... that's not an "easy to win" one
[12:32] <daniels> seb128: mmm
[12:32] <daniels> seb128: yeah
[12:33] <pitti> daniels: I hoped the same
[12:33] <pitti> daniels: it reminds me of win2k: "one reboot for each change" :-(
[12:33] <daniels> seb128: i just think this whole 'dbus is a core service omg' thing is complete crack, and a stupid cop out that just lets you be lazy and write terrible code
[12:33] <Lathiat> its worse nwo i isntalled windows today and some stupid applicatiom nthat was workign wanted me to reboot, i went ot windows update and it told me i had to reboot before i can do updates.
[12:34] <seb128> daniels: yeah, but there was already a lot of Debian/upstream talks on the topic, they are obviously not going to change (cf the discussion with walters)
[12:34] <daniels> seb128: yeah.  sigh.
[12:34] <Lathiat> does breezy-install-i386 20050817.1 fix the lilo/root= thing ?
[12:36] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync clamav and pstotext? (both security issues in universe)
[12:54] <seb128> elmo: please drop evolution-data-server1.2 and pyphany
[01:00] <mvo> seb128: is there a new gtk+ release yet that fixes the "g_assert(child->parent == GTK_WIDGET(container))" problem yet?
[01:01] <seb128> mvo: 2.8.0
[01:01] <seb128> mvo: but needs to update cairo, needs to change soname, need to rebuild 200 packages ... have to run FAST from mdz 
[01:01] <ogra_> hmm... without all the whitespace changes the patch would be half the size...
[01:02] <mvo> seb128: oh, this issue :) after colony, right?
[01:02] <seb128> mvo: yep
[01:02] <Lathiat> heh im just reading it atm too
[01:02] <seb128> mvo: feel free to upload the new cairo now, but I'll not do it :)
[01:02] <Lathiat> whats the patch achieve/
[01:03] <mvo> seb128: I value my good relation with matt too high for that :)
[01:03] <seb128> ah ah
[01:08] <mvo> seb128: what bug did you see today with the amd64 live cd? 
[01:08] <mvo> iirc you talked about it this morning with mdz
[01:08] <seb128> mvo: the one from this night, or the new one from this morning?
[01:09] <seb128> the first chocked on a keyboard issue, blocked on the xorg config
[01:09] <mvo> seb128: I tried the new one from this morning and it failed on configuring X
[01:09] <seb128> the new one works quite fine, some desktop issue but no big deal
[01:09] <seb128> oh?
[01:09] <mvo> seb128: I'll try again and see if I got the very latest
[01:10] <seb128> what md5?
[01:10] <daniels> jdub: dpkg-deb: building package `mgp' in `../mgp_1.11b-5_i386.deb'.
[01:10] <seb128> mvo: 55ba21f1533d77bb60eec3138521251c here
[01:11] <tepsipakki> oh yeah, hoary-cd
[01:11] <tepsipakki> doh
[01:12] <tepsipakki> ..'s arrived, all 750 of them
[01:12] <Nafallo> 750?! yay :-)
[01:12] <tepsipakki> =)
[01:13] <tepsipakki> we'll be handing them out to students
[01:16] <hmrocha> i'm installing ubuntu on my college pc's right now :)
[01:17] <hunger> How is the graphics driver for X selected in ubuntu?
[01:18] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I had a older image, getting the new one now
[01:18] <mjg59> mdz: I've filed a bug which references it
[01:18] <daniels> hunger: handwaving and trickery
[01:18] <mjr> hunger, IIRC, with discover
[01:18] <seb128> mvo: np
[01:19] <hunger> mjr: That is what I thought before I went over to daniels interpretation;-)
[01:19] <seb128> daniels: is there any way to force/change the xorg resolution on an hoary liveCD? It does 640x480 where the warty one does 1024x768 on the same box
[01:19] <hunger> mjr: I do not have discover installed, so I think that is not it... or maybe I messed up my install again;-)
[01:20] <mjr> well... handwaving it is then
[01:21] <daniels> seb128: nope.  let me guess, integrated intel desktop chipset?
[01:21] <daniels> hunger: mostly discover1
[01:21] <hunger> daniels: Hmmm.... I do not have that installed... seems like I messed too much with the system again.
[01:23] <seb128> daniels: not happening to me, I've asked to note the video card type, I'll let you know ... is there any workaround known for these ones?
[01:24] <daniels> seb128: not really.  and my uploads to hoary-updates seem to keep wandering ... sigh.
[01:25] <seb128> daniels: k, thanks anyway
[01:25] <seb128> I was thinking that maybe there is a boot option to say to use the vesa or something :)
[01:26] <daniels> seb128: it would be neat, yeah.  maybe xserver-xorg/use_sync_ranges=true?
[01:27] <seb128> I note that to try
[01:29] <pitti> daniels, seb128: *sigh* it's done
[01:31] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[01:31] <mvo> daniels: btw, why do you seem to dislike glxinfo? 
[01:34] <kagou> hi
[01:35] <kagou> hi pitti , udev last upgrade is ok ;)
[01:35] <pitti> Hi kagou 
[01:35] <pitti> :-)
[01:38] <kagou> pitti, i'v posted comments to request upgrade of udev for bugs that i think they are depending on the yesterday bug
[01:38] <pitti> kagou: me too, I saw it :-)
[01:38] <kagou> :p
[01:39] <pitti> ok, have to go, cu later
[01:40] <kagou> cu
[01:40] <desrt> pitti; hey?
[01:47] <sivang> jdub: Do you have your OSCon presentation somewhere online?
[01:48] <desrt> pitti; just a headsup for when you get back... i don't know if this is the expected behaviour or not (because of the transition): http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/1323
[01:54] <pitti> desrt: hm, no, it's certainly not
[01:55] <pitti> desrt: I'll look at it later
[01:55] <pitti> I test the live cd now and then I need to go
[02:07] <pitti_live> seb128: I currently test the amd64 live cd, hotplug stuff works dine
[02:07] <mvo> hey pitti_live !
[02:07] <pitti_live> seb128: fine, even. What was your problem?
[02:08] <pitti_live> mvo: I have a short bug list: video mode question, long hang with no apparent progress, kernel notification, missing gnome langpacks
[02:08] <pitti_live> the rest seems to work just fine
[02:09] <Lathiat> first 3 i reported on the ml, x86 too
[02:09] <Lathiat> this dhcp thing is annoying me
[02:09] <Lathiat> who knows about d-i network stuff?
[02:09] <pitti_live> Lathiat, dhcp works fine here
[02:09] <Lathiat> if i stasrt a dhclient on the terminal why d-i is trying to dhcp
[02:09] <Lathiat> it keeps doing nothing just like the installer
[02:09] <seb128> pitti_live: the liveCD label on the desktop/computer was "cdrom"
[02:09] <pitti_live> Lathiat, langpacks are already fixed
[02:09] <Lathiat> as soon as the installer stops dhcping
[02:09] <Lathiat> it gets an offer instantly
[02:09] <Lathiat> but buggered if i know why
[02:09] <seb128> pitti_live: on my install it's "Ubuntu 5.10 amd64"
[02:09] <pitti_live> seb128: oh, right, labels are broke
[02:09] <Lathiat> i just did an i386 install 
[02:10] <Lathiat> with 17.1
[02:10] <Lathiat> worked great
[02:10] <pitti_live> seb128: will look at it 
[02:10] <Lathiat> one thing i noticed
[02:10] <seb128> pitti_live: "yelp" summary is empty here too
[02:10] <Lathiat> boot now takes like 5-10 extra seconds to start
[02:10] <pitti_live> seb128: but not now, really gotta grab my bike and go now
[02:10] <Lathiat> i think its the initramfs doing something
[02:10] <seb128> pitti_live: and my network was not configured, I had to run dhclient
[02:10] <Lathiat> seb128: same here
[02:10] <seb128> later pitti_live
[02:10] <Lathiat> seb128: it actually ran here, but it doesnt get an ip
[02:10] <Lathiat> just like the installer
[02:10] <Mithrandir> how often is the live initrd rebuilt?
[02:10] <Lathiat> always works the second time
[02:11] <pitti_live> seb128, sudo /etc/init.d/dbus cures it -- I saw that many times in bug reports
[02:11] <pitti_live> bye
[02:13] <daniels> fwiw, the video mode question thing is a debconf problem
[02:21] <Lathiat> hrm...
[02:21] <Lathiat> we have a real firefox icon on the panel
[02:21] <Lathiat> isnt that bad?
[02:24] <seb128> this has been fixed with gnome-icon-theme 2.9.91
[02:24] <paolo> Why is bad?
[02:24] <seb128> copyright issue
[02:24] <paolo> Hmpf.
[02:25] <Lathiat> yeh
[02:25] <Lathiat> traemark thingy
[02:25] <Lathiat> ok thanks seb128 
[02:25] <Lathiat> also, do you know about the icon size thing?
[02:25] <Lathiat> has that been fixed?
[02:25] <seb128> not yet
[02:26] <seb128> but will be for 5.10 for sure
[02:26] <Lathiat> is someone capable working on it?
[02:26] <seb128> 90% fixed atm
[02:26] <Lathiat> ok
[02:30] <Lathiat> hrm, muine and rhythmbox seem to have stopped responding to play/pause/next/prev
[02:35] <seb128> Lathiat: I had some such issue with rb, I've launched totem to try ... that worked, and then rb was working too
[02:35] <Lathiat> hrm
[02:35] <seb128> Lathiat: if you can debug it you are welcome
[02:35] <Lathiat> totem doesnt work here either
[02:35] <Lathiat> hrm
[02:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: how and when are the live initrd (no, not the cloop) rebuilt?  I need a rebuilt one with cdebconf 0.84ubuntu2 before I can upload the fixed casper.
[02:40] <Lathiat> daniels: yay
[02:40] <Lathiat> i can fix vflib3 and associated crap now
[02:40] <daniels> it seems to work for basic (well, psychotic -- autoconf generating Imakefiles from Imakefile.ins) builds, when I tested with mgp and a couple of others
[02:41] <daniels> let me know if it's broken in more complex cases, but I don't expect it will be
[02:41] <\sh> daniels: i had problems installing libgl1-xorg-dri...it wanted to overwrite one file out of xmesalib-dri
[02:41] <\sh> daniels: forgot a replaces for this package?
[02:41] <Lathiat> daniels: any chance of glxinfo? (or is there another way to see if you have dri - for laptop testing)
[02:41] <daniels> +Package: libgl1-xorg-dri
[02:41] <daniels> +Conflicts: xlibmesa3 (<< 4.2.1-5), xlibmesa3-gl, xlibmesa-dri
[02:41] <daniels> +Replaces: xlibmesa3 (<< 4.2.1-5), xlibmesa3-gl, xlibmesa-dri
[02:41] <daniels> +Provides: xlibmesa-dri
[02:41] <daniels> \sh: if there's a problem, it's not mine
[02:42] <\sh> daniels: it was -49 
[02:42] <\sh> strange
[02:42] <daniels> Lathiat:   * Start building glxinfo from progs/xdemos, and stuff it in libgl1-mesa;
[02:42] <daniels>     introduce Build-Depends on freeglut3-dev.
[02:42] <Lathiat> on nice
[02:42] <Lathiat> know what i want before i ask, yay
[02:43] <Lathiat> daniels: what package?
[02:43] <\sh> Unpacking libgl1-xorg-dri (from .../libgl1-xorg-dri_6.8.2-50_i386.deb) ...
[02:43] <\sh> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libgl1-xorg-dri_6.8.2-50_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/gamma_dri.so', which is also in package xlibmesa-dri
[02:44] <daniels> \sh: ok, busted in -49.  transient error, libgl1-mesa-dri will be getting rid of it soon anyway.
[02:44] <daniels> Lathiat: that's from my local mesa changelog; not yet uploaded
[02:44] <Lathiat> daniels: ok cool
[02:44] <Lathiat> cheers
[02:44] <hunger> \sh: upgrade worked fine here...
[02:45] <daniels> hunger: no, turns out it really is my problem, but it's already fixed locall
[02:45] <\sh> hunger: on my other install as well...but this install here...is anything but fault-tolerant ,-)
[02:45] <hunger> daniels: Well, I am on -50... maybe that's it.
[02:45] <\sh> daniels: ok..only a matter of time...I just thought, my install is b0rked
[02:47] <infinity> \sh : Just remove xlibmesa-dri in the same apt run.
[02:47] <hunger> daniels: Thanks for not breaking xkb for the last couple of weeks. It is so much easier to appreciate your work when X actually starts up;-) Looks like you got over the rough spots... upgrades have been pretty smooth for me lately.
[02:47] <infinity> \sh : "apt-get --purge install libgl1-xorg-dri xlibmesa-dri-" (note the trailing "-")
[02:48] <infinity> \sh : That'll fix you for now, and the mesa uploads/transition in the next few days will fix it permanently.
[02:48] <daniels> hunger: any time
[02:48] <\sh> infinity: that was my next step to remove it..but I wasn't sure, if it was a bug or just a glitch in the matrix ,-)
[02:56] <\sh> later dudes
[02:59] <Lathiat> seb128: are you aware of any problems with the disk mounter applet?
[02:59] <seb128> no
[02:59] <Lathiat> ok i'll file bugs then
[03:00] <seb128> oh, one "labels suck"
[03:00] <Lathiat> nah
[03:00] <seb128> about what?
[03:00] <Lathiat> like it crashes when i select my hard drive
[03:00] <Lathiat> also it hasnt realised my drive is unmounted even after restarting it
[03:00] <Lathiat> does it use hal?
[03:00] <seb128> yep
[03:00] <Lathiat> wonder if dbus restarted
[03:00] <seb128> did you upgrade dbus/hal?
[03:00] <Lathiat> might reboot first
[03:00] <Lathiat> yeh i think it did
[03:01] <seb128> that's exactly why pitti changed it to not restart on update this morning
[03:01] <Lathiat> heh
[03:01] <Lathiat> right
[03:01] <Mithrandir> oh, shiny.
[03:01] <Mithrandir> _shiny_.  amd64 valgrind released a short while ago
[03:01] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: nice
[03:02] <daniels> woo
[03:04] <ogra_ltsp> seb128, i have a lot of xml errors at the end of the install from misformatted gnome-games helpfiles...
[03:04] <ogra_ltsp> seb128, is that known ? 
[03:04] <seb128> no
[03:04] <ogra_ltsp> ok
[03:05] <ogra_ltsp> Mithrandir, your telcos have a funny sense of humor.... http://zontik.de/uploads/1116202837_cd.jpg
[03:05] <Lathiat> haha ogra_ltsp 
[03:06] <fabbione> eheh
[03:06] <fabbione> ogra: what about adding desktop-sparc to edubuntu-meta ?
[03:07] <Nafallo> lol
[03:07] <ogra_ltsp> fabbione, i had it in, it always broke my updates, i'll add it in the end again
[03:07] <Mithrandir> ogra_ltsp: heh, such things happen, I guess
[03:07] <fabbione> ogra_ltsp: broke in what way?
[03:08] <ogra_ltsp> fabbione, the metapackage update script very often timed out on ports.ubuntu.com and i was to lazy to fix it every time... 
[03:08] <fabbione> AH
[03:08] <fabbione> but ports.u.c sits just close to archive...
[03:08] <ogra_ltsp> fabbione, so i'll add it again for the final package...
[03:08] <fabbione> it's at the datacenter
[03:09] <ogra_ltsp> yes, but either it times out or Packages.gz is corrupted
[03:09] <fabbione> hmm ok...
[03:09] <ogra_ltsp> same for hppa and ia64
[03:09] <fabbione> i suspect a mirroring issue from jackass
[03:09] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[03:10] <ogra_ltsp> that'd be quite expensive... we have no multiarch ltsp yet
[03:10] <ogra_ltsp> so all the clients have to be sparc too :)
[03:10] <Mithrandir> heh
[03:10] <fabbione> ehehhe
[03:10] <ogra_ltsp> but could be funny though... for recycling cheap old sparc HW
[03:11] <fabbione> bbl
[03:13] <chmj> is there anyone hacking thunderbird ? 
[03:14] <elmo> fabbione: ?
[03:15] <seb128> elmo: could you drop evolution-data-server1.2 and pyphany please? :)
[03:35] <infinity> chmj : Define "hacking thunderbird"... I've done a few uploads.
[03:37] <ogra> hmm, does anybody know which part of the seeds is finally responsible for including stuff on the cd ? i'm trempted to edit STRUCTURE to add my server seed to edubuntu but i'm not sure
[03:37] <ogra> s/trempted/tempted
[03:38] <fabbione> elmo: can you see any problem on ports mirror.. as ogra described?
[03:38] <elmo> fabbione: there's nothing wrong with ports
[03:38] <chmj> infinity: its just that its terribly broken (instant crashes), but i see most of the bugs have been assigned to tfheen
[03:38] <fabbione> elmo: ok..
[03:39] <fabbione> ogra: fix your connection :P
[03:39] <elmo> seb128: why for each?  [I may have missed it earlier, if you already said] 
[03:39] <ogra> fabbione, it works for everything else... and mostly even on the second try... but since the other arches come first i have to wait 10min until i see it failing
[03:40] <fabbione> ogra: ok.. i will look at it
[03:41] <seb128> elmo: evolution-data-server1.2 (http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9779), that was a evolution-data-server rename sync from Debian
[03:41] <infinity> chmj : On which dist?... I run it 24/7 on breezy with no problems.
[03:41] <ogra> fabbione, as i said, its no biggie, i'll add it later again...
[03:41] <seb128> elmo: pyphany is deprecated by epiphany-browser now which has the same feature 
[03:43] <elmo> seb128: done
[03:43] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[03:44] <ogra> elmo, did you recognize the blackdown request yesterday ? 
[03:45] <Mithrandir> daniels: 9984 is marked pendingupload, have you just forgotten to close it?
[03:46] <siretart> daniels: infinity: libforms-dev places its headers to /usr/X11R6/include/X11. shouldn't they go to /usr/include?
[03:47] <daniels> siretart: what are they doing in the X11/ namespace in the first place??
[03:48] <siretart> daniels: you are the X11 god, not me :)
[03:48] <daniels> Mithrandir: er yeah, thanks
[03:48] <daniels> siretart: it should have its own namespace, not leech off <X11/...>
[03:49] <infinity> Hysterical raisins, I'd assume.
[03:49] <siretart> so it should be modified to install libs and headers to /usr, right?
[03:49] <infinity> Heck, the thing was binary-only non-free crap until recently.
[03:49] <daniels> siretart: yeah
[03:49] <daniels> infinity: there are toolkits other than gtk and qt?
[03:51] <daniels> no wait, sorry
[03:51] <daniels> motif rules the world
[03:51] <daniels> all hail motif
[03:52] <j^> daniels now i understand why ubuntu ships with a motif theme for qt by default
[03:53] <ogra> j^, yes, our KDE team is to slow... they are still working on implementing KDE in real motif
[03:53] <j^> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2724
[03:54] <j^> ogra i dont care about kde, i care about qt apps used from the default ubuntu desktop: gnome
[03:59] <Lathiat> daniels: hrm, im not getting a ZAxisMapping, known ?
[03:59] <daniels> lathi	yes
[03:59] <Lathiat> okie
[04:00] <pitti> Hi
[04:01] <ogra> pitti, ho
[04:01] <siretart> daniels: where has xmkmf gone?
[04:01] <daniels> siretart: into a package called 'xmkmf', cunningly
[04:02] <Nafallo> where is those binarys anyway? :-)
[04:02] <Lathiat> building or NEW i suspect
[04:02] <siretart> daniels: which you uploaded just 2h ago, I see
[04:02] <Nafallo> NEW then
[04:03] <\sh> and my ntfs partition can't be resized
[04:03] <siretart> ok. I modified libforms1, but it needs xmkmf. will need to wait for the binaries, then
[04:03] <daniels> it already got source-NEWed, but it's only recently finished building
[04:03] <daniels> give it a while
[04:03] <\sh> error: /lib/partman/automatically_partition/80custom/choices
[04:03] <\sh> " 10resize_use_free/do_option
[04:04] <\sh> " 10resize_use_free/do_option: IN: VIRTUAL 32256-60011642879
[04:04] <\sh> parted_server: Read Command: VIRTUAL
[04:04] <\sh> the device 32256-60011642879 is not opened
[04:05] <\sh> parted_server: line 1081: CRITICAL ERROR!!!
[04:05] <\sh> now I can copy and paste this text into bugzilla
[04:05] <pitti> infinity: just sent you a mail wrt. a bug in the php patch
[04:06] <ziaee> +2
[04:08] <infinity> pitti : I'm backporting from 1.4.0 anyway, since sesser's patch didn't apply cleanly, so it's not really a problem.
[04:10] <daniels> ajmitch: i'm bound to forget by the time you wake up, so basically, looking at symlink-mesa.sh, it looks like it should be a builddir thing rather than srcdir, especially as it's called from configure.  so I changed it to run in builddir and changed all the INCLUDEs in GL/**/Makefile.am.  mind if I commit?
[04:10] <daniels> argh, wrong channel
[04:10] <daniels> ajmitch: nm
[04:19] <pitti> infinity: ok, just checking
[04:25] <infinity> Oh, feh.  More PHP bugginess.
[04:26] <siretart> jbailey: around?
[04:26] <jbailey> siretart: Yup
[04:27] <siretart> jbailey: just wanted to poke you another time about subversion's javahl ;)
[04:27] <Lathiat> hrm, would it be such a stupid idea to include kernel headers by default?
[04:27] <Lathiat> for example, im at uni and i need the cisco vpn client to connect, and i cant install the headers unless i get on the vpn, which i need the headers for. (had that happent to me last week)
[04:28] <jbailey> siretart: Thanks. =)
[04:28] <ogra> Lathiat, they are on the CD
[04:28] <siretart> jbailey: I yesterday I had to fight with suse, which ships with prebuilt javahl (most probably built with sun jdk): result: segfaults :/
[04:28] <Lathiat> didnt have the cd at uni 
[04:29] <Lathiat> just wondering if theres an overly compelling reason not to
[04:29] <Lathiat> i guess theres no compiler either
[04:29] <ogra> on the CD 
[04:29] <siretart> jbailey: to be serious: whats left to do so we can have javahl in ubuntu's svn?
[04:29] <ogra> its all there ;)
[04:29] <Lathiat> like i said
[04:29] <jbailey> siretart: I expect it's a matter of just twiddling the build-deps and enabling it at this point.
[04:29] <Lathiat> its more the off-guard situations like this, where you might not have a cd :)
[04:30] <siretart> jbailey: I send you a debdiff, that packaged worked in pbuilder for me that time
[04:30] <siretart> didn't check if there was another subversion update since then, though
[04:31] <jbailey> siretart: It shouldn't be too drastic of a change either wya.
[04:31] <ogra> Lathiat, easy to solve... never leave your home without ubuntu CD.... if you dont need it you can still give it away ;)
[04:31] <Lathiat> heh
[04:31] <infinity> Lathiat : Desktop systems shouldn't have a compiler or any -dev packages installed by default.  Carrythe CD around if you think you may need to compile stuff. :)
[04:31] <Lathiat> infinity: well my point is, i didn't expect to, but i needed to compile the cisco vpn driver.
[04:31] <Lathiat> anyway
[04:31] <Lathiat> i wish vpnc worked at my uni
[04:31] <Lathiat> the cisco vpn driver is a pos
[04:32] <Lathiat> tseng: heh, the 'enable beagle on start', actually writes out ~/.runbeagle, which is suse specific 
[04:34] <infinity> Lathiat : Curious, both the cisco closed source client and vpnc work at my girlfriend's university.
[04:34] <infinity> Lathiat : Perhaps you could talk to the IT people to have them tweak settigns on the VPN to get vpnc to work with it...
[04:34] <mvo> seb128: IIRC your SoC student worked on a way to figure if a given user is a sudoer. how is that progressing?
[04:35] <Lathiat> infinity: any idea what needs tweaking?
[04:35] <ogra> oh, yes, its a feature edubuntu needs too...
[04:35] <Lathiat> infinity: vpnc seems to send the same initial packet
[04:35] <ogra> seb128, ^^
[04:35] <Lathiat> infinity: but nothing comes back
[04:35] <Lathiat> it confuses me
[04:35] <Lathiat> must be something slightly different
[04:35] <Lathiat> or i was half dead when looking at tcpdump
[04:35] <seb128> mvo: need to ask him again, he's working on other stuff atm
[04:36] <seb128> mvo: he mailed the sudo list and is kind of waiting for a reply
[04:36] <mdke> is there something wrong with the fonts in breezy at the moment? I just installed it and a lot of the fonts seem out of proportion with each other, or am I imagining it?
[04:36] <ogra> seb128, that was about disabling admin tools in the menu too, right ? 
[04:37] <seb128> yeah, the menu hidding already works
[04:37] <ogra> yay
[04:37] <mvo> seb128: k
[04:37] <seb128> you just have to put X-Ubuntu-RootRequired=yes on the .desktop
[04:37] <seb128> and it's masked for non-group-admin users
[04:38] <mvo> seb128: does it only hide it? or does it run the command with gksudo as well?
[04:40] <ogra> seb128, has daniles given any ETA for xnest ? i'd love to have sabayon available for my edubuntu testers
[04:40] <seb128> mvo: the "easy" way would be to use "listpw=never" by default, which allow to do a "sudo -l" without a password
[04:40] <seb128> ogra: xnest is fixed, I've sabayon ready to upload but I'm waiting on colony3 for changes
[04:40] <seb128> I can push sabayon if needed
[04:41] <ogra> seb128, that'd be great, since i want to manke ubuntu colony3 to be edubuntu colony1 :)
[04:41] <ogra> make even
[04:41] <seb128> current builds seems to work, I'm not sure there will an another set of CD, but let's upload
[04:42] <ogra> yeah...
[04:42] <ogra> if mdz complains, just point him to me... i take responsibility for that...
[04:42] <mvo> seb128: hm, we would have to modify the sudoers file for that? btw, does this desktop key only hide menu-entry? or does it run the command with gksudo as well?
[04:44] <seb128> mvo: yeah, the default option are here, no? It just hide, the gksudo bit require gnome-panel changes too and the feature freeze came quickly
[04:45] <mvo> seb128: ok, that's fine. I was just curious about the behaviour of the key
[04:48] <opi> Hey
[04:51] <mjg59> Keybuk: You pang last night?
[04:51] <Keybuk> I did, I filed a bug too
[04:52] <mjg59> Against?
[04:52] <Keybuk> unknown/hotkey-setup
[04:52] <Keybuk> basically I have a list of hotkeys from my HP, and wanted to check with you before adding them to hotkey-setup
[04:53] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[04:53] <mjg59> Keybuk: Looks good
[04:53] <Keybuk> shall I just go ahead and do it?
[04:54] <mjg59> Yeah
[04:54] <doko> pitti: what does a main inclusion report for dictionaries have to consist of?
[04:54] <mjg59> Keybuk: Can you fix the init script so it actually runs hp.hk as well? 
[04:55] <ogra> doko, there is a howto
[04:55] <tseng> Lathiat: buh.
[04:55] <ogra> doko, or just copy ne from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
[04:56] <Keybuk> mjg59: needs a s!/etc!/usr/share! no?
[04:56] <mjg59> Keybuk: Hm. Isn't it just synced from Debian?
[04:57] <mjg59> In which case it ought to have /usr/share already
[04:57] <mjg59> But actually has /use/share
[04:57] <Keybuk> won't have been since UVF
[04:57] <mjg59> I asked elmo to pull it
[04:58] <Keybuk> there's 0.1-2 in both Debian and Ubuntu
[04:58] <mjg59> Keybuk: That's what I thought. Where's the etc in the init script?
[04:58] <Keybuk> 0.1-2 has /etc
[04:58] <mjg59> Uhm. Wurgh?
[04:58] <Keybuk> are you sure there's not a 0.1-3 on your disk that never got uploaded ? :)
[04:59] <mjg59> Yes
[04:59] <mjg59> The source I've just grabbed from archive.ubuntu.com has usr/share
[05:00] <Keybuk> ah, what's ./hotkey-setup
[05:00] <mjg59> Good question. No idea.
[05:00] <mjg59> (Other thank "broken")
[05:01] <mjg59> The init script is in debian/
[05:08] <mjg59> Keybuk: Dude, you've got the distribution wrong
[05:09] <Keybuk> yeah, noticed that <g>
[05:09] <Keybuk> shouldn't try an upload before coffee
[05:14] <siretart> infinity: as xmkmf is availabe now, I tried to build libforms1, but I get this in pbuilder: http://paste.debian.net/1582
[05:14] <siretart> infinity: any idea what this could be?
[05:26] <\sh> siretart: apt-file search date.def ?
[05:27] <\sh> xutils: usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/date.def
[05:28] <\sh> siretart: can be a wrong position for this file...check xorg.cf
[05:29] <siretart> \sh: in any case, this seems to my deeper xorg magic..
[05:30] <\sh> siretart: it looks like that some symlinks are missing, or the xorg transition is stucked there ,-)
[06:21] <aroman> hi
[06:22] <aroman> I have a Toshiba M40-JM8 laptop which does not work that great with ubuntu hoary. Breezy is near. How can I help to get this laptop to work out-of-the-box in breezy?
[06:22] <Lathiat> aroman: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[06:23] <aroman> Lathiat, thanks :)
[06:25] <aroman> I know this is a kernel problem that prevents me from getting this to work properly. Firewire... When any firewire-related module loads, poof :( Nobody Cared about IRQ 11, Disabling IRQ 11 Message. What's on IRQ 11? Well, networking... :(
[06:30] <Keybuk> christ, d-i partman is even scarier than I remember
[06:32] <\sh> Keybuk: kamion is working on the partman stuff in the installer? 
[06:35] <bddebian> Howdy
[06:45] <sivang> bddebian: hi barry, 'sup?
[06:46] <djpig> does anybody know why the Contents-* files for breezy aren't updated anymore? (apparently they haven't been updated since May, a packages.ubuntu.com user now noticed it and asked me about it)
[06:47] <ogra> hmm, they arent ? apt-file works fine here, doesnt that use them too ? 
[06:47] <siretart> ogra: yes, but the info is from may!
[06:48] <\sh> mvo: have fun :)
[06:49] <ogra> \sh, he plays "einradhockey"
[06:49] <ogra> \sh, (not joking)
[06:50] <\sh> ogra: as i said: have fun :) if I could ride "one wheel bicycle" I would do it as well :)
[06:50] <ogra> heh
[07:06] <ogra> hmm, does somebody know if pitti planned to come back today ?
[07:37] <Keybuk> hmm, that's weird
[07:37] <Keybuk> no usplash in fresh breezy install
[07:37] <mjg59> No
[07:37] <mjg59> It didn't get added to ship seed yet
[07:37] <Keybuk> isn't it a dep of ubuntu-desktop?
[07:38] <mjg59> Not as far as I know
[07:38] <Keybuk> must be
[07:38] <Keybuk> it's installed
[07:38] <Keybuk> it's just not starting
[07:38] <theantix> yes it is, I got it on an hoary->breezy upgrade
[07:39] <mjg59> Oh
[07:39] <mjg59> In that case it's because it's installed after the initramfs is made
[07:39] <Keybuk> that's what it looks like, yup
[07:39] <jbailey> Is there any way to tell apt that it should do if first iff it's available?
[07:42] <mjg59> jbailey: Not that I know of
[07:42] <jbailey> So many features that I don't care enough to implement. =)
[07:43] <sladen> jbailey: can you pre-depend?
[07:43] <mjg59> sladen: usplash shouldn't be a dependency
[07:43] <jbailey> sladen: No, usplash should be optional
[07:43] <jbailey> It's just that dpkg needs an ordering hint.
[07:44] <sladen> or a callback system so that the initramfs rebuild can be called after new files are placed under it
[07:45] <jbailey> sladen: Right.  The biggest risk is that a 1) a bad initramfs call could make the system unbootable. 2) There's no promise that they're using the default names for the initramfs, so I can't promise to regenerate it succesfully.
[07:45] <jbailey> Installing mkinitramfs doesn't actually generate an initramfs, right now it's the kernel package that does that.
[07:52] <\sh> and because of the actual kernel with usplash stuff in it. coming back hibernating from hibernating is not working...i have to test it on my nc6000 as well..
[07:53] <\sh> oh damn...I should not write and think and play with other things at the same time
[07:54] <ogra> \sh, that should work.. 
[07:54] <\sh> ogra: should but not on the toshiba one...with hoary == no problem...
[07:54] <ogra> hmm
[07:54] <\sh> w8...i will test it now
[07:55] <\sh> actually...vflib3 needs more kicks from me..so let me play hibernating ,-)
[07:55] <\sh> brb
[07:57] <sladen> \sh_away: if it worked under hoary, but not under breezy that's a bug and a regression
[07:57] <sladen> \sh_away: there's been some re-writing of interrupting handling I think which might have broken stuff
[07:57] <ogra> sladen, is it already supposed to work fine ? it doesnt here too on my amd64 lappie
[07:58] <adamh> I've installed libc6-dbg, but when I run my program (compiled with -g) in gdb, my stack traces show stuff like "#12 0xb7be24a0 in result.0 () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6" and I can't "list" the source code. Shouldn't it be "/usr/lib/debug/..."?
[07:58] <ogra> sladen, exactly mine stops with a APIC error... so i was suspecting the interrupt handling
[08:04] <\sh> re
[08:04] <ogra> ol
[08:04] <\sh> ok...it's going into hibernating mode...but it comes up and freezes the screen with garbage, when it goes into X
[08:05] <ogra> hmm
[08:05] <\sh> (on nc6000)
[08:06] <\sh> on portge I don't see it even going into hibernate mode
[08:06] <\sh> and when it comes back, it stops with some errors in the usplash thing..I can give u more informations when I'm back on breezy with this portege
[08:07] <\sh> hoary just works 
[08:12] <mjg59> \sh: There's a stack of stuff for suspend/resume fixes that just went into the kernel
[08:12] <mjg59> Should appear in the archive tomorrow (when it's built)
[08:12] <\sh> mjg59: good to know :)
[08:14] <mjg59> But yeah, there are known regressions at the moment
[08:14] <mjg59> Plus the PM scripts don't work properly yet
[08:40] <hunger> Could someone please sync monotone with debian? Thanks!
[08:40] <hunger> s/sync/update to the debian version/
[08:50] <lamont> hunger: there needs to be an actual bug that is fixed by the upgrade, etc, etc.
[08:50] <lamont> "because it's newer" doesn't count
[08:59] <\sh> sabdfl: ping
[09:07] <dieman> mmm
[09:07] <dieman> moved my ubuntu mirror to a slightly better machine
[09:14] <Keybuk> ouch
[09:14] <Keybuk> lethal bug:
[09:14] <Keybuk> go into gnome-terminal, edit current profile, colours, and pick a colour
[09:14] <Keybuk> then hover the mouse over the "Colour Name" box until the tooltip appears
[09:16] <seb128> stop searching bugs to flood my bugzilla :)
[09:16] <ogra> xhmm
[09:16] <ogra> stuck...
[09:16] <mdz> ogra: have you tested the latest install CD?  it should fix your issue but I would appreciate confirmation
[09:16] <seb128> mdz: the amd64 liveCD is fixed
[09:16] <ogra> mdz, yes, it did... 
[09:17] <mdz> excellent, thanks for testing
[09:17] <mdz> you tested i386?
[09:17] <ogra> mdz, also the next edubuntu is good to go i think :)
[09:17] <ogra> yep
[09:17] <mdz> I will re-test powerpc and amd64 installs, and all 3 live CDs
[09:17] <ogra> amd64 only live, i dont want to wipe my work machine
[09:17] <mdz> and if all goes well, colony 3
[09:18] <seb128> mdz: no running new CDs?
[09:18] <ogra> mdz, i want edubuntu-server on the CD do i have to add it to ship in STRUCTURE or only to the ship seed ?
[09:18] <seb128> mdz: the current ones have no gnome-language-packs 
[09:19] <seb128> mdz: ie: the desktop is not translated when you pick something else than english ... pitti fixed that today
[09:19] <seb128> not sure if you consider that as a stopper for a colony
[09:19] <ogra> seb128, it is if you have network enabled... i have a german desktop on my test install
[09:20] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm not deliberately finding them :)  I'm just doing a test reinstall and reconfigure of my laptop
[09:20] <ogra> seb128, this bug is real.. i just had to kill my terminal
[09:20] <seb128> I don't doubt of it
[09:21] <mdz> seb128: if I roll new CDs, will you re-test?
[09:21] <seb128> mdz: yep
[09:21] <mdz> every time we do a new build, we risk regressions.  the current one is pretty good
[09:21] <seb128> if you don't make 5 hours to make the CDs
[09:21] <seb128> s/make/take/
[09:21] <marcin> hi all
[09:21] <marcin> I got a question - there is Calendaring Synchronization goal for breezy
[09:22] <ogra> seb128, if yu kept your iso its a short resync :)
[09:22] <seb128> mdz: I had to run "sudo dhclient" to get an IP too, is that a known issue?
[09:22] <marcin> and there are plans to integrate support for ical and webcal for evo...
[09:22] <seb128> the stock boot didn't set up my eth
[09:22] <ogra> oops... 
[09:22] <ogra> seb128, dhcp ? 
[09:22] <seb128> didn't get an IP I mean
[09:22] <marcin> question is - are there any plans to provide syncml server for ubuntu?
[09:22] <seb128> ogra: no, I run dhclient on static config :p
[09:22] <ogra> seb128, worked for me on the install...
[09:23] <ogra> sorry, i'm blind :)
[09:23] <mgalvin> seb128: that happened to me the other day but it works correctly on the latest cd for me
[09:24] <Keybuk> seb128: the installer didn't set up ath0 for me, but did set up eth0
[09:24] <seb128> Keybuk: that was a liveCD, and I use eth1
[09:25] <mdz> seb128: no, that is not a known issue
[09:25] <mdz> seb128: does it work with the hoary live CD?
[09:25] <mdz> seb128,pitti: are the gnome laangpacks also missing from the live CD?
[09:26] <seb128> they are missing from the liveCD
[09:27] <mdz> ...
[09:27] <seb128> not sure for hoary, but I've both liveCD here and I can try now if you want
[09:27] <mdz> how does the gnome langpack installation work?
[09:27] <mdz> is it something which can be fixed by an upgrade?
[09:27] <mdz> if so, it is not a showstopper
[09:27] <seb128> pitti fixed that while you were sleeping afaik
[09:28] <seb128> kind of, that's a package to install ... but then you need to restart the apps
[09:28] <mdz> I understand, but it makes a difference how it was fixed
[09:28] <seb128> ie: panel, nautilus, applets needs to be killed
[09:28] <ogra> mdz, the install pulls them from the net in the last step... so you should be able to install them on the liveCD too
[09:28] <mdz> why did no one mention this yesterday?
[09:28] <ogra> i did
[09:28] <mdz> ogra: there is probably not space on the live CD
[09:28] <seb128> because yesterday one stopped on xorg config here
[09:28] <ogra> several times
[09:28] <seb128> ie: before getting the desktop
[09:28] <mdz> ogra: you said they were downloaded from the net
[09:28] <mdz> not that the desktop was not localized
[09:28] <ogra> mvo did too
[09:28] <mdz> downloading is fine
[09:29] <mdz> missing is not fine
[09:29] <ogra> mdz, yes, that was the case, but i didnt do an install without net access
[09:29] <mdz> are they installed from the net, or are they not installed at all?
[09:29] <mdz> if it only affects non-networked installs, it does not necessarily block colony 3
[09:29] <ogra> on install they are pulled from the net
[09:31] <mdz> ok, I'm happy to add that as a caveat to the announcement
[09:31] <seb128> fine with me
[09:31] <ogra> yup
[09:31] <seb128> mdz: 
[09:31] <seb128> ao 17 10:49:09 <pitti> mdz: ok, I throw some other langpacks off the powerpc CD, it does not make sense to have the base,
[09:31] <seb128> but not the gnome translation
[09:32] <seb128> that was from some minute before you went to bed
[09:32] <mjg59> mdz: How do you feel about patches to grub?
[09:32] <mvo> mdz: daily did not install for me with two network interfaces. but that's probably a rare case. the interfaces where swapped after the boot and that caused apttitude update to fail
[09:32] <ogra> mvo, we talk about the gnome langpacks
[09:33] <mvo> this lead to unauthenticated langpack-gnome-en packages and the installer hangs
[09:33] <mvo> ogra: it's related, because after the failed aptitude update nothing from the net was considered authenticated anymore
[09:33] <mvo> and because the langpack was feteched from the net the base-config package install hanged
[09:33] <ogra> yep... sorry i was to fast
[09:33] <mdz> mjg59: bugfix patches to grub would be grand
[09:33] <ogra> heh
[09:34] <mdz> +1 amd64 live
[09:34] <mjg59> mdz: I sent it upstream, but haven't heard anything back
[09:34] <mdz> mjg59: I am especially fond of patches which fix "error 22" and "error 18"
[09:34] <mjg59> Ah. This one doesn't do that.
[09:35] <mjg59> This one fixes "Hard drive error"
[09:35] <mdz> oh, that's also a good one
[09:35] <mjg59> 13511
[09:40] <ogra> elmo, could you sync openafs ? seems to fix a ftbfs
[09:41] <ogra> seb128, meh, sabayon ftbfs 
[09:41] <ogra> configure: error: Can't locate python headers
[09:42] <seb128> I'll fix it
[09:43] <ogra> mdz, so how do i get edubuntu-server on the CD now ? adding it o the ship list in STRUCTURE? 
[09:44] <mdz> ogra: I don't know
[09:44] <ogra> oh
[09:44] <ogra> hmm... ok then i'll go juggling :)
[09:45] <ogra> s/juggling/gambling
[09:45] <ogra> :)
[09:46] <\sh> hmmm...i need to set up dsl on this portege
[09:46] <\sh> to create a new bug entry
[09:47] <\sh> cause writing a kernel oops by hand is a paine
[09:47] <\sh> rb
[09:47] <\sh> brb
[09:50] <concept10> Could anyone give me a good link about upgrading to breezy and general info?
[09:52] <rob^> no
[09:52] <rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger
[09:53] <\sh> hmmm..
[09:53] <mdz> +1 powerpc live
[09:54] <mgalvin> concept10: this is not the channel for those discussions, please try asking on #ubuntu or on the mailing list
[09:54] <\sh> -- not configured madwifi device + iwlist ath0 scanning == segfault + kernel oops
[09:55] <theantix> \sh, yup
[09:56] <carstenh> concept10: if i were you i would wait till the release (unless you want to hunt bugs)
[09:56] <concept10> mgalvin, I asked because most people in the normal channel do not know about specifics, I wanted to know what is the up-to-date status of the transition of the C library.
[09:56] <\sh> what transition of the c lib?
[09:57] <\sh> u mean gcc4?
[09:57] <concept10> Yes.
[09:58] <concept10> \sh, I need a package that is only in breezy.  It probably wont break my system.  The package I need is cpufrequtils - I need to change the min/max values of my processor speed.
[09:58] <mgalvin> concept10: that is mostly done i think
[09:59] <ogra> concept10, why dont you just adjust the powernowd settings ? 
[09:59] <\sh> the c libs weren't that problem...only the g++ libs were transitioned with diff. package names...
[09:59] <ogra> concept10, rather then switching to a unstable system
[09:59] <mgalvin> concept10: upgrading to breezy is easy if you want to just do it
[10:00] <concept10> ogra, let me try with powernowd I just printed the manpage
[10:00] <mgalvin> breezy has been really starting to stablize recently
[10:00] <mdz> +1 i386 live
[10:00] <carstenh> concept10: maybe rebuilding cpufrequtils in breezy is worth a try
[10:00] <rob^> is gparted part of the CD installation yet?
[10:01] <mgalvin> concept10: vi /etc/apt/sources.list ... %s/hoary/breezy/g
[10:01] <ogra> concept10, look in /etc/init.d/powernowd there you can adjust the options at the top
[10:01] <concept10> Okay, thanks guys, let me see what I come up with.
[10:02] <carstenh> s/breezy/hoary/
[10:02] <mgalvin> er yea, oops
[10:11] <KHI> hi, is this where i can help on the laptop team, or at least talk with some of the members?
[10:12] <\sh> KHI: #ubuntu-laptop
[10:12] <rob^> KHI, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger
[10:12] <concept10> mgalvin, for the life of me, I cannot find where to adjust the min/max processor values. :(
[10:13] <rob^> KHI, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[10:13] <rob^> sorry..
[10:13] <KHI> ok
[10:13] <KHI> going
[10:13] <KHI> it's alright, lol
[10:13] <KHI> I just wanted to see if there was a spot for panasonic mobiles, or if there's been much of a request for them.
[10:13] <KHI> i'll look it over now though.
[10:13] <\sh> KHI: join #ubuntu-laptop pls
[10:14] <KHI> thank you
[10:14] <ogra> concept10, powernowd only adjusts the throttling etc.. but you can work with the values there
[10:16] <concept10> ogra, for some reason 100% is only 1.59Ghz, I have a 2.66Ghz processor, it only scales as low as 199Mhz, im just looking to change the min/max values, I know it can be done, I just dont know where.  
[10:17] <concept10> powernowd only lets you adjust the percentage not the actual values
[10:18] <ogra> ah, thats rather a kernel thing then... what kind of proc is that ? may amd64 is caller 3200+ but doesnt go above 2200Mhz... amd always measured the relation to intel
[10:18] <ogra> s/may/my
[10:18] <ogra> called...
[10:19] <Simira> \sh : colony 2 worked fine!
[10:20] <mdz> +1 powerpc install
[10:21] <\sh> Simira: with what?
[10:21] <concept10> ogra, the processor is a mobile p4 2.66 with speedstep, I know it will go to 2.66 because it does in windows, I guess cpufrequtils is the only way to change the values.  The AMD64 3200+ is only a comparision rating, not the actual speed   
[10:22] <ogra> concept10, yup, thats what i maent...
[10:22] <concept10> I guess im going to have to build cpufrequtils on hoary
[10:22] <ogra> pull the breezy sourcepackage and try if it builds..
[10:22] <concept10> Okay, thanks for the help anyway.
[10:23] <ogra> concept10, you could ylso ask Mez, he's responsible for backports
[10:23] <ogra> s/ylso/also
[10:26] <mdz> mjg59: grub patch is fine for breezy post-colony3
[10:26] <mjg59> mdz: Cool
[10:26] <mdz> mjg59: which, with any luck, will be in about 15 minutes
[10:26] <mdz> assuming the release scripts work
[10:30] <ogra> i'd appreciate if this could be delayed until the next edubuntu build has run
[10:31] <mdz> +1 i386 install
[10:31] <ogra> whats missing now ? amd64 install ? 
[10:31] <mdz> nope
[10:31] <mdz> that's 6/6
[10:31] <ogra> yay
[10:31] <mvo> cool
[10:31] <ogra> we got a badger colony :)
[10:32] <ogra> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger 
[10:32] <Nafallo> COLONY! :-)
[10:33] <ogra> schhhhnake
[10:33] <\sh> what?
[10:33] <Mez> ogra: sorry what ?
[10:34] <\sh> now tell me guys, I just downloaded this morning latest iso..and this is obsolete now?
[10:34] <ogra> GUYS
[10:34] <mdz> elmo: around?
[10:34] <ogra> you dont know the breezy dance ?
[10:35] <ogra> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
[10:35] <tseng> badger badger badger!
[10:35] <ogra> YEAH
[10:37] <mdz> the torrent tracker seems to be down
[10:38] <mdz> that's the only thing blocking colony 3
[10:38] <Simira> \sh : with my faulty laptop
[10:38] <ogra> do we really need torrent for a colony ?
[10:38] <\sh> Simira: oh ehehe...which one?
[10:38] <mdz> it would be preferable, both for us and for the users
[10:39] <mdz> it's not a strict blocker, but I'd like to wait a bit and see if elmo can look at it
[10:39] <\sh> ogra: i can put a mirror up on my server..but then my friends will kill me ;)
[10:39] <ogra> sure but i bet we can go without it for now and have a tracker up tomorrow
[10:39] <mdz> it's already published, I'm just holding the announcement
[10:40] <Simira> \sh: colony 2 on hp nc8230
[10:40] <\sh> Simira: then test latest build ;)
[10:46] <ogra> yay yay yay+
[10:47] <\sh> mdz: ROCK'N'Roll
[10:47] <Treenaks> gah
[10:47] <Treenaks> just tested /current from today :)
[10:49] <\sh> Treenaks: welcome to the real world :)
[10:50] <Treenaks> \sh: Is it too late to take the blue pill then?
[10:50] <\sh> Treenaks: hmmm..yes
[10:50] <Treenaks> \sh: hmm..
[10:51] <Simira> \sh: second thing tomorrow morning (after breakfast)
[10:54] <siretart> badger badger!
[10:54] <xerox> badger badger badger
[10:56] <Treenaks> MUSHROOM
[10:56] <mdz> Treenaks: /current is identical to colony 3
[10:56] <Treenaks> mdz: cooless
[10:56] <Treenaks> +n
[10:59] <madduck> are there any more details known about the ubuntu conference yet?
[10:59] <madduck> (the one in the fall that is?)
[11:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: when and how is the live initrd rebuilt?
[11:21] <mjg59> Oh damnit.
[11:22] <mjg59> I don't understand this at all.
[11:22] <Nafallo> mako: ping
[11:24] <mako> Nafallo: yes
[11:24] <Nafallo> mako: the image on the cd-covers. can I find those somewhere for our SFD banners? :-)
[11:24] <Nafallo> s/those/this/
[11:25] <mako> Nafallo: i don't actually have them and had some difficulty getting them in the warty time frame.. jdub would probably the person to ask
[11:25] <Nafallo> mako: oki, thanx :-)
[11:25] <Nafallo> jdub: ping :-)
[11:30] <wasabi_> Does it seem to anybody that it would be a good idea to record the apt- key used to install each package?
[11:30] <wasabi_> And only allow updates within the same key.
[11:33] <mdz> Mithrandir: the live initrd is identical to the install initrd
[11:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: well, when and how is that rebuilt, then?
[11:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: I need an updated cdebconf into the initrd before I upload the fixed casper
[11:35] <jbailey> lamont: You mean at build time on the local machine?
[11:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's built by cron jobs on the buildds and uploaded as a byhand bundle
[11:36] <mdz> I also have a trigger I can use to force a new build
[11:36] <lamont> jbailey: yes
[11:36] <mdz> (daily cron jobs)
[11:36] <lamont> jbailey: failing that, at runtime on the target machine
[11:36] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, so really-daily or 30-minute-daily?
[11:37] <jbailey> lamont: Depend on lsb and use lsb_release -i ?
[11:37] <lamont> Mithrandir: debian-installer daily build is truly daily, as are livecd rootfs builds
[11:38] <mdz> Mithrandir: really-daily
[11:38] <jbailey> lamont: Hmm, lsb_release is in it's only lsb-release package.
[11:38] <lamont> although, d-i build happens on a diff machine, and later than the livecd builds
[11:38] <jbailey> lamont: Probably exactly for that.
[11:38] <Mithrandir> ok, when-daily?
[11:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: I've tested my changes on one machine here and they work, would you be fine with me uploading them or should I hold it off?
[11:39] <lamont> #15 4 * * *             /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD kubuntu
[11:39] <lamont> #15 6 * * *             /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD ubuntu
[11:39] <lamont> #0 7 * * *              /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD base
[11:39] <lamont> #15 6 * * *             /home/buildd/bin/BuildDI
[11:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: are they in a baz branch?
[11:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: not yet, but that's easily fixed.
[11:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: if not, please put them in one so that I can easily merge them; then it doesn't matter who uploads it
[11:39] <carstenh> wasabi_: this would make upgrades impossible if a key has expired or compromised after i installed a package. i don't think this would be that good.
[11:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: casper is in matt.zimmerman@canonical.com/casper--main--0
[11:40] <wasabi_> hmmm.
[11:40] <jdub> http://pida.berlios.de/index.php/PIDA:Screenshot
[11:40] <lamont> jbailey: making lsb-release essential would be bad though, yes?
[11:40] <jdub> PIDA looks rad
[11:40] <jdub> embedded vim!
[11:40] <jdub> hey lamont!
[11:40] <lamont> jdub!!
[11:40] <lamont> sup man?
[11:40] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[11:40] <wasabi_> carstenh, or by keys signed by the original key?
[11:40] <jdub> lamont: dude, i did a talk last night
[11:40] <lamont> kewl!
[11:40] <jdub> lamont: i mentioned you and hppa in the same sentence, and everyone in the room was laughing. it was a bit surreal.
[11:41] <lamont> hrmpf
[11:41] <jdub> ;-)
[11:41] <lamont> what was the topic?  ubuntu in general?
[11:41] <carstenh> wasabi_: does this make it more secure if a key has been compromised?
[11:41] <lamont> and what audience?
[11:41] <Nafallo> I can see: JDUB :-)
[11:41] <jdub> i did a quick rehash of my OSCON talk at the SLUG Debian SIG
[11:41] <wasabi_> carstenh, no, it makes it more secure to deal with multiple repositories.
[11:41] <wasabi_> carstenh, of different trust levels.
[11:41] <lamont> jdub: heh
[11:41] <jbailey> lamont: Not really.  The package contains a shell script, some conffile in /etc, a man page and the usual /usr/share/doc noise.
[11:41] <Nafallo> jdub: the image on the cd-covers. can I find this somewhere for our SFD banners? :-)
[11:41] <lamont> jbailey: on debian?
[11:41] <jdub> so "running with scissors: life on the bleeding edge", covering GNOME and Ubuntu 
[11:41] <carstenh> wasabi_: JFYI: i'm the wrong guy to talk about this. this are just my meaningless opinions :)
[11:42] <wasabi_> carstenh, for instance. If I want to install a certain piece of software from a third party repository... I don't want to give them the ability to override Ubuntu packages.
[11:42] <wasabi_> Yeah.
[11:42] <jbailey> lamont: It appears to exist on both Debian and Ubuntu.
[11:42] <lamont> jbailey: this is util-linux's init.d scripts, you see...
[11:42] <jdub> Nafallo: the circle of friends?
[11:42] <Nafallo> jdub: yepp :-)
[11:42] <jdub> Nafallo: wait, don't you guys have SFD CD artwork?
[11:42] <mr_mojo> hi
[11:42] <carstenh> wasabi_: imho then you should use pinning for that
[11:42] <mr_mojo> is there any effort to implement incremental file transfers for apt-get?
[11:42] <Nafallo> jdub: we where to late and had to use shipit :-/
[11:43] <wasabi_> carstenh, perhaps. That might work fine.
[11:43] <jdub> Nafallo: d'oh
[11:43] <jbailey> lamont: Sure.  lsb-release is even in /bin
[11:43] <jdub> Nafallo: um, so, jane.silber@canonical.com
[11:43] <Nafallo> jdub: we didn't have a LoCo at that time ;-)
[11:44] <opi> jdub, thanks for Planet changes (URI to our Planet:-)
[11:44] <carstenh> wasabi_: it would also make publishing private repositories more complicated
[11:44] <Nafallo> jdub: the picture aren't anywhere else? we have an artist for the banners and stuff already. or are there official material we should use?
[11:44] <lamont> jbailey: I'll hold off on doing that for a bit, and let the diff be more than just the changelog
[11:44] <wasabi_> carstenh, good.
[11:44] <jdub> opi: ah, good, hadn't seen the change land yet :)
[11:44] <carstenh> wasabi_: ... since everybody that oofers a private repository has to know that and handle it correctly
[11:44] <wasabi_> carstenh, we don't want private repositories to easily overwrite ubuntu packages without no interaction.
[11:44] <wasabi_> imo
[11:44] <jdub> Nafallo: jane can send you the image
[11:45] <jdub> Nafallo: alternatively, you could grab the circle image from the HumanCircle gdm theme
[11:45] <Nafallo> jdub: oki :-). will try the second alternative first. thanx
[11:45] <carstenh> wasabi_: then maybe offically repositories should be pinned with a higher priority per default
[11:46] <wasabi_> Hmm.
[11:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com/casper--debconf-copydb--0 ; http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/archives/tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com
[11:46] <opi> jdub, http://bronikowski.com/?menu=single&id=127 ;)
[11:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: ouch
[11:47] <mdz> C   casper/post.d/20xconfig
[11:47] <mdz> C   debian/changelog
[11:47] <wasabi_> Hmmm.
[11:47] <wasabi_> I guess that is actually good enough.
[11:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: where did you branch from?
[11:47] <wasabi_> Ya know, I just short circuited my entire argument.
[11:47] <carstenh> wasabi_: i did not have much time to think about it. maybe i'll find that idea great after sleeping a night. this are just my priviate opinions and maybe you should talk to someone else about this.
[11:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: the one you mentioned; baz branch matt.zimmerman@canonical.com/casper--main--0 tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com/casper--debconf-copydb--0
[11:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: oops, my mirror was out of date
[11:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: please merge with main and resolve the conflicts
[11:49] <lamont> hrm... lsb-release is Depend'ed on by:   lsb lsb-release ubuntu-base ubuntu-desktop update-manager update-notifier
[11:49] <carstenh> wasabi_: on the other hand if i use backports.debian.org (don't know if ubuntu has something similar) i want this packages to override the offical packages.
[11:50] <jdub> hmm, i should try a breezy install
[11:50] <mdz> jdub: yes, you should
[11:50] <carstenh> wasabi_: so enforcing a higher pinning for offical stuff might not that good too 
[11:51] <wasabi_> carstenh, i've got a little piece of sample code I am working with that adds support for .apt files. The .apt file contains a gpg key and archive path and packages to install. When you launch one it asks you to trust the key and installt he packages.
[11:51] <jdub> mdz: should i try a ppc one?
[11:51] <wasabi_> The idea will be for ISVs to provide easy installs of third party applications.
[11:51] <mjg59> What's the mapping between kernel keycodes and X keycodes?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: done; I removed your makedev hack since infinity has fixed it in a better way in makedev for the next livecd image.
[11:51] <mdz> jdub: take your pick
[11:52] <opi> mdz, should I try ppc one on Pegasos, or yaboot will still not work?
[11:52] <jdub> i'd rather not, i still have a warm place in my heart for my toilet seat ibook, i'd rather not bash it to pieces
[11:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: agreed
[11:53] <Nafallo> hmm, the people looked up in gdm and down on the cd ;-)
[11:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: hmm, doesn't this make the progress bar look a bit strange?
[11:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think so?
[11:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: it would display the same message for both pre.d/20xconfig and post.d/20xconfig
[11:53] <carstenh> wasabi_: hmm, this might be worth discussing with apt's upsteam. maybe you should file a wishlist bug for that or talk to him dircetly if he has some time.
[11:53] <mdz> maybe the first one is fast enough that it isn't noticeable though
[11:54] <wasabi_> carstenh, I've talked with mov a lot. I was just considering the security implications.
[11:54] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think it'll be quick enough, but feel free to rename the first stage.
[11:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: merged, renamed, mirrored
[11:57] <carstenh> wasabi_: i don't know who mov is. i guess i can't help you further and hope hearing my opinions has helped you a little bit :)
[11:57] <mdz> s/mirrored/mirroring/
[11:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: will you do the upload as well?  It's midnight and I've had a few beers so I think I'm off to bed.
[11:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: I thought it needs to wait for the new cdebconf anyway
[11:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: it needs the new cdebconf, yes.
[11:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: 0.84ubuntu2?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> yes
[11:59] <mdz> should probably wait until tomorrow to be sure
[11:59] <Mithrandir> ok, sure.
[12:00] <jdub> yes! xmkmf!
[12:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: is there anything in particular you want me to concentrate on tomorrow?  I've started trying to get the RC bug count down so far, but if you want me to look at other stuff, please tell me.
[12:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: I've contemplated beginning to hack on partman-evms as well, for breezy+1
[12:02] <mdz> Mithrandir: bugzilla
[12:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: bugzilla is naturally what I go by for RCness, yes.
[12:03] <mdz> Mithrandir: should get more particular than that as I'm able to process the bug list, set severities and assign bugs
[12:03] <Mithrandir> sounds fine.