[12:07] <jdub> jbailey: like, building the first basic cpio archive with tools (busybox and klibc, etc.) on the buildd, and then doing the module cpio archive on the client
[12:08] <jbailey> w00t /lastlog
[12:08] <jbailey> jdub: No.
[12:09] <jbailey> jdub: Fabio pointed out that it makes the story complicated for people who do home-built kernels if we're not careful about it.
[12:10] <jdub> jbailey: hrm, extra option on make-kpkg?
[12:11] <jdub> gotta run away to the country :-)
[12:11] <jdub> ciao!
[12:11] <lu|brb> slacker ;)
[12:11] <jbailey> jdub: 'bye. =)
[12:11] <jdub> it's pretty rad how i can hibernate windows on my desktop :-)
[12:14] <Keybuk> people who build their own kernels worryme
[12:14] <Keybuk> it was normal 10 years ago, but not today
[12:17] <maswan> well, it would be fun if the distribution kernel supported everything you needed. last time I checked at work, we were 2-3 things away from that though. :/
[12:17] <maswan> (we do have the policy of distribution kernel where available, for easier secuirty updates though)
[12:18] <torkel> maswan: I'm afraid we will never be able to run dist kernels everywhere...
[12:18] <maswan> torkel: yeah, I know
[12:19] <torkel> maswan: at least not until ClusterFs changes their mind :-(
[12:30] <tseng> evening sabdfl 
[12:30] <sabdfl> hey tseng
[12:43] <mdz> [2] +  Stopped                 tail -f log
[12:43] <mdz> (breezy-i386)mdz@concordia:~ $ fg
[12:43] <mdz> tail -f log
[12:43] <mdz> tail: cannot read realtime clock: Invalid argument
[12:43] <mdz> elmo: is that normal?
[12:50] <elmo> I dunno, amd64 has traditionally had troubles with the RTC
[12:50] <elmo> but I've never seen userland things like tail try to use it before
[12:51] <Keybuk> ok, the world has officially gone mad
[12:51] <Keybuk> someone stop it, I want to get off
[12:51] <Keybuk> this tin of tuna has written on it (and I'm not kidding); Allergy warning: CONTAINS FISH
[12:52] <elmo> dude, if daisyduke can think it's chicken...
[12:56] <opi> is Evolution broken for Breezy?
[12:59] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/contains-fish.jpg
[01:01] <opi> Keybuk, can be dangerus
[01:01] <Keybuk> IT'S A TIN OF TUNA!  OF COURSE IT CONTAINS FISH!
[01:02] <opi> Keybuk, well, maybe it's cat food? Cat food can contain tuna, but it's not a fish ;)
[01:02] <Keybuk> at least it doesn't say "May Contain Dolphin"
[01:02] <Nafallo> LOL
[01:02] <opi> Keybuk, it's missing the ,,Please, save the animals'' and ,,Don't eat me!'' tags, too
[01:20] <mdz> jbailey: so I've run into a situation where I need to be able to conditionalize the loading of a module in initramfs
[01:21] <mdz> jbailey: currently I just list the module in a modules.d file and everything is cool
[01:21] <mdz> jbailey: but I need to be able to either a) disable its inclusion in the initramfs at initramfs-build-time, or b) disable its loading at runtime
[01:33] <jbailey> mdz: You can do either.  Hooks are at buildtime and runtime.  Basically, they're shell scripts that have access to all of the functions that the main scripts do.
[01:34] <jbailey> mdz: If you look in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks,  you'll find the build time hooks that get called.
[01:35] <jbailey> Otherwise, you can also just drop a script in to the right directory in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ to get it called at the right time.
[01:38] <mdz> jbailey: if I understand correctly, being listed in modules.d means both inclusion in the ramfs and being loaded at runtime, so I don't think I have a choice
[01:45] <jbailey> mdz: You can put a thing in the hook script to "manual_add_modules FOO" to cause it to be included in the initramfs, and then modprobe the module in a runtime script
[01:47] <jbailey> force_load FOO causes it to be included and always loaded as if it were in modules.d
[01:54] <mdz> jbailey: thanks
[02:11] <mdz> jbailey: force_load didn't work for me
[02:11] <mdz> jbailey: it was not even copied into the initramfs
[02:12] <mdz> it certainly looks like it should though
[02:13] <segfault> sorry for the OT, but who is responsible for setting up mailing lists?
[02:14] <mdz> segfault: setting them up, or deciding whether they are appropriate?
[02:16] <segfault> well, both. i'd like to know if its possible to create a list for translations discussion, ubuntu-l10n-pt-br
[02:16] <mdz> segfault: community council
[02:17] <segfault> ok, i'll add to the agenda of the next meeting
[02:23] <segfault> is there any plan to include reiser4 support in the default kernel? or just when it gets into the vanilla kernel?
[02:24] <mdz> jbailey: it does get added to conf/modules, but the .ko isn't included in the fs
[02:24] <mdz> segfault: kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com
[02:26] <mdz> aha
[02:26] <mdz> force_load()
[02:26] <mdz> {
[02:26] <mdz>                 manual_add_modules ${module}
[02:26] <mdz>                 echo ${@} >>${DESTDIR}/conf/modules
[02:26] <mdz> }
[02:26] <mdz> jbailey: ${module} should be $1
[02:27] <mdz> that certainly took a long time to spot
[02:31] <jbailey> Hmm.  But then parameters to the module won't get included.
[02:31] <jbailey> I'm guessing that in the bit that loads them on I need to remember to filter the extra bits at that time.
[02:32] <womble> Does anyone else skim the thread subjects for "Colony CD 3" and get mental audio of Cartman singing "Swiss Colony Beef Log"?
[02:34] <mdz> jbailey: parameters?
[02:34] <mdz> jbailey: you told me to invoke force_load FOO, but that causes manual_add_modules to be invoked without arguments
[02:38] <Keybuk> womble: no.
[02:38] <Keybuk> ;)
[03:04] <jbailey> mdz: Right, Shouldn't answer questions while I'm on the phone.  =)  The idea is that you could say something like "3c509 io=0x280" and have it pass the parameter to the module.
[03:04] <jbailey> But I see what you mean.  manual_add_modules needs the ${1}
[03:04] <jbailey> I thought you mean on the echo line instead of the ${@}
[03:21] <elmo> hmm, anyone know off hand how to say either sort by or grep by line length without resorting to python/perl?
[03:25] <segfault> | wc -l | sort -n?
[03:26] <carstenh> echo -e "foo\nbarfoo" | egrep '^.{3}$'
[03:28] <carstenh> skip the $ if you want all lines with at a length of at least n 
[03:28] <elmo> carstenh: aha, thanks, good idea
[03:29] <elmo> segfault: wc would also have worked too, tnx
[04:09] <wasabi> Is there a general tutorial on programming pygtk? For instance, I am curious about actual project layout... not just how to code.
[04:10] <womble> wasabi: Different people will probably have wildly different ideas about how to structure their PyGTK projects.
[04:11] <womble> One of the benefits of OSS -- you get to look at lots of real-world examples to hone your own style.  <grin>
[04:12] <jp> congrats dudes, breezy is rocking a lot! thanks :)
[05:03] <seth_k> Treenaks, you about?
[05:07] <seth_k> Treenaks, if you see this, your PyBlosxom murdered Planet Ubuntu's RSS feeds. If you'll take a look, you'll notice that your DC:Creator is being returned as  Martijn van de Streek <martijn@foodfight.org>  and the carets are breaking the RSS feeds. Thanks!
[07:09] <wasabi> What would be the proper way to return the system's dist (hoary, breezy, etc) from the command line?
[07:10] <elmo> /etc/lsbsomething
[07:10] <wasabi> ahh yes
[07:11] <wasabi> lsb_release or something
[07:11] <thoreauputic> lsb_release -a (for all info)
[07:11] <Treenaks> seth_k: ok, thnx
[07:11] <thoreauputic> as a command
[07:13] <seth_k> cheers Treenaks
[07:13] <seth_k> good to see you on Planet now btw :)
[07:13] <Treenaks> 1/q seth_k 
[07:13] <Treenaks> uh
[07:18] <Treenaks> seth_k: see pm :)
[07:20] <seth_k> apologies Treenaks if you had a question, I got disconnected. Did you want to ask something?
[07:27] <rob^> is gnome-app-install prefered over synaptic in breezy?
[07:30] <Treenaks> rob^: depends on what you want to do :)
[07:30] <rob^> write about installing applications in Yelp
[07:30] <Treenaks> ask the docteam then :)
[07:30] <rob^> I am the lead author of the faq guide
[07:31] <rob^> thats odd, I did a search for ssh in gnome-app-install for "ssh" and it turned up nothing
[07:31] <Treenaks> rob^: gnome-app-install doesn't contain everything
[07:32] <rob^> yeah.. hmm
[07:35] <elmo> CRITICAL - 580 processes running 
[07:35] <elmo> GOOD MORNING FABBIONE
[07:35] <fabbione> ahha
[07:35] <fabbione> morning elmo :)
[07:35] <fabbione> i am only at -j150
[07:35] <fabbione> it can't be only me
[07:36] <fabbione> elmo: did you tell Karl not to worry about these general warnings? ;)
[07:38] <fabbione> i didn't expect you to be up at this time of the day
[07:38] <fabbione> mdz: wake up dude?
[07:50] <wasabi> Pygtk folks: I am trying to take some binary data and turn it into a pixbuf or something suitable for putting in a GtkImage widget.
[07:50] <wasabi> I know the mime type only.
[07:55] <mdz> fabbione: yes?
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: i think i have a fix for unionfs.. i am building a test kernel for you
[07:57] <fabbione> if that works, you can blame unionfs upstream...
[07:58] <fabbione> what i see is that unionfs_delete_inode doesn't lock the kernel like all the others 2983 FS do
[07:58] <fabbione> and it doesn't trunkate the inode before such operation
[07:58] <fabbione> that might lead to a race in certain operations
[07:58] <fabbione> = oops
[07:58] <fabbione> i can't be 100% sure.. but we can give it a shot
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: what falvour do you need to test?
[08:00] <fabbione> so i can probably speed up the build
[08:00] <fabbione> (i need to go away anyhow)
[08:05] <mdz> fabbione: I've implemented a workaround in ltsp
[08:05] <mdz> to avoid using unionfs at all
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: meh.. i would still like to see if the fix work
[08:05] <mdz> fabbione: but nonetheless, this works 100% in 2.6.12-6.10, and 0% in 2.6.12-7.11
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: yes i got that from the bug report..
[08:06] <mdz> I didn't see any changes which looked relevant, but it is difficult to see which actual files in the kernel tree change from one revision to another
[08:06] <mdz> do you have some tools which do this?
[08:06] <mdz> it is especially hard when 400k lines of diff are uploaded in one revision
[08:06] <fabbione> mdz: compare the 2 linux-tree ?
[08:06] <fabbione> mdz: i would have uploaded early and with less changes, but we had colony 3 in the way
[08:06] <mdz> fabbione: apply the patches in both places and diff -ru?
[08:07] <mdz> I suppose that works
[08:07] <fabbione> mdz: the 2 linux-tree have already the patches applied...
[08:07] <fabbione> so you just need to rediff it
[08:07] <mdz> oh, they do?  I thought they weren't applied until the build
[08:07] <fabbione> linux-tree is already patched iirc.. 
[08:07] <fabbione> it's in the description
[08:08] <fabbione> + we ship the patch on top of upstream
[08:08] <fabbione> Package: linux-source-2.6.12
[08:08] <fabbione> Description: Linux kernel source for version 2.6.12 with Ubuntu patches
[08:09] <mdz> fabbione: BenC was able to reproduce this on different hardware, by the way, I don't think it's related to acpi or otherwise hardware related
[08:09] <mdz> fabbione: that is the description for the binary package; are the patches applied in the source package as well?
[08:09] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. if you can tell me what flavour you need, i can give you a module to test right now
[08:10] <mdz> 386
[08:10] <fabbione> mdz: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.12 -> patches are in debian/patches
[08:10] <mdz> ltsp only uses generic kernels
[08:10] <fabbione> apt-get install linux-source-2.6.12 patches are applied
[08:10] <mdz> fabbione: right, apt-get install linux-source-2.6.12 gets you the current version only
[08:10] <mdz> which doesn't help to diff between two versions
[08:11] <mdz> but if there is a rules target to apply all the patches, I can use that
[08:11] <fabbione> fabbione@concordia:~/deve/linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12/debian/build/build-386/fs/unionfs/unionfs.ko 
[08:11] <fabbione> mdz: grab that one and tell me if it works
[08:12] <fabbione> mdz: use the morgue to get the old version.. 
[08:12] <fabbione> or get it from baz..
[08:12] <fabbione> but than you will need to build it
[08:13] <fabbione> or use the target monolith in the source
[08:13] <mdz> why would I want to build it?
[08:13] <fabbione> apt-get source...
[08:13] <mdz> I just want to diff the source
[08:13] <fabbione> ./debian/rules monolith
[08:13] <mdz> isn't there a debian/rules target to apply all patches?
[08:13] <fabbione> and than diff
[08:13] <fabbione> yes
[08:13] <fabbione> i am just writing it to you
[08:13] <fabbione> the above
[08:13] <mdz> apply all patches = "monolith"??
[08:13] <fabbione> make the monolith in the old and new
[08:13] <mdz> how about "patch"
[08:13] <fabbione> monolith does something more...
[08:14] <fabbione> mdz: there is also patch, but please use monolith
[08:14] <fabbione> if you want to get extraheadakes use patch
[08:14] <fabbione> up to you..
[08:14] <mdz> ok, so you do have a target called patch, but it doesn't work right?
[08:14] <mdz> or what?
[08:14] <fabbione> mdz: i don't recall all the details right now. there is some extra stuff done by monolith
[08:15] <fabbione> it's ages i don't touch that stuff
[08:15] <fabbione> or even look at it
[08:15] <mdz> fabbione: were you able to reproduce the unionfs bug?
[08:15] <fabbione> no because i woke up 2 hours ago...
[08:15] <fabbione> and it's saturday morning.. and i absolutely need to go and take a break for we
[08:15] <mdz> yes, it's nearly midnight on friday here
[08:16] <mdz> the module from concordia breaks in exactly the same way as the old one
[08:16] <fabbione> ok..
[08:16] <mdz> but it's ok, forget it
[08:16] <mdz> I have a contingency plan
[08:16] <mdz> I am ditching unionfs
[08:16] <fabbione> ok..
[08:16] <fabbione> even better...
[08:16] <mdz> we obviously can't rely on it
[08:16] <fabbione> it's too fragile
[08:17] <fabbione> it didn't even compile for a long while on ppc
[08:17] <fabbione> anyway.. i am off... have a good weekend guys
[08:17] <mdz> bye
[08:42] <mdz> infinity: did you see the oo.o2 failure already?
[08:43] <mdz> infinity: seems like it might be something similar to the cairo fixes you're making
[08:44] <pef> hello
[09:08] <infinity> mdz : Will look into it.
[09:08] <mdz> infinity: short version:   mozilla-dev: Depends: mozilla-browser (= 2:1.7.11-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[09:08] <infinity> Alright, easy enough to hunt down.
[09:11] <infinity> There are still ~100 packages depending on libcairo1, so I expect some archive weirdness while I sort out the build failures and finish seb's transition.
[09:12] <infinity> No big deal.
[09:14] <\sh> infinity: send me a list with packages MOTUs could work on...
[09:14] <\sh> infinity: will deal with it a little bit later..need to go to office...the pope and his energy is erasing our dtv smartcards *grmpf*
[09:15] <infinity> \sh : apt-cache rdepends libcairo1, and see if it's in section universe/* ? :)
[09:15] <\sh> infinity: yeah...I'm just lazy ,-)
[09:15] <infinity> \sh : Most of it just needs to be retries on the buildds in the right order though, so probably not muhc for you to help with unless you see obvious breakage (like what I just fixed with firefox and oregano)
[09:15] <infinity> s/retries/retried/
[09:17] <\sh> infinity: k...will deal with it when I'm back home...It's 7:17 UTC and office called me 6:00 UTC... that'll be a bad day
[09:17] <Treenaks> I see lots of black "flicker" in firefox (since the cairo update I think)
[09:18] <infinity> Treenaks : firefox hasn't been updated for the new cairo yet.  Wait for it to build, installe the new one, then complain if it still sucks. :)
[09:18] <\sh> ok...gentlemen see u later
[09:18] <Treenaks> infinity: ok :)
[09:19] <infinity> (But yes, I've noticed newly-started windows seem to start out as big black rectangles, etc.. Though only with mozilla-based apps, in my case thuderbird and firefox)
[09:19] <infinity> I'm waiting for the transition to be done before I pass a verdict on that, though.
[09:19] <Treenaks> EEK.. that usplash ubuntu-logo.. on my 1024x768 laptop.. stretched.. without antialiasing
[09:19] <Treenaks> *shudder*
[09:20] <infinity> mjg59's already admitted to not being much of an artist. :)
[09:20] <infinity> I'm sure AndyFitz will provide us with something prettier in fairly short order, but it's more important to get the technical side hammered out first (so we know if we can even ship the feature)
[09:21] <Treenaks> infinity: oh sure..
[09:21] <Treenaks> infinity: but the scaling is the problem here :)
[09:21] <Treenaks> infinity: siliconmotion = sucky hardware :)
[09:36] <highvoltage> Treenaks: the resolulution is 640x480 at that stage.
[09:37] <infinity> highvoltage : Yes, but the laptop isn't.
[09:37] <infinity> At any rate, a slightly less ugly logo will help a bit, but stretching laptop displays pretty much always looks crap.
[09:39] <mdz> infinity: you could script that a lot sooner than waiting for me to add it to apt
[09:39] <infinity> Yeah, it generally involves a Ctrl-C, followed by expletives, followed by downloading a previous version of the source so I have an orig.tar.gz, then the current again.
[09:39] <infinity> It's the Ctrl-C and swearing bit I'd like to avoid.
[09:40] <mdz> scripts usually don't swear ;-)
[09:40] <wasabi> Apple has it figured out.
[09:40] <infinity> You haven't read any of mine..
[09:40] <wasabi> They don't boot with a logo.
[09:40] <wasabi> They boot with the simpliest two tone animation they can.
[09:41] <wasabi> We should boot with nothing but a small spinning Ubuntu logo haha
[09:41] <mdz> the ubuntu logo doesn't spin
[09:41] <infinity> We could boot with a compuer with a happy face on the monitor.  No one's ever done THAT before.
[09:41] <wasabi> haha
[09:41] <mdz> my apple booted with a logo the last time I checked
[09:42] <infinity> And when the boot fails, switch it to a sad face, with NO OTHER EXPLANATION.
[09:42] <infinity> That would rock.
[09:42] <wasabi> mdz, os x. It's just a small spinning graphic.
[09:42] <mdz> wasabi: not the version I have
[09:42] <wasabi> ?
[09:42] <mdz> it's a grayscale logo in the center of the screen
[09:42] <wasabi> me grabs iboko
[09:43] <wasabi> oh. i dont even have os x. doh.
[09:44] <highvoltage> wasabi: i took away my bootsplash by just appending vga=791 to my kernel line :)
[09:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: we could play a sound as well
[09:45] <infinity> Mithrandir : Now you're talking.
[09:45] <infinity> Maybe some sort of distinctive chord, played through the internal speaker.
[09:46] <Mithrandir> yeah
[09:46] <infinity> It'll be revolutionary.
[09:46] <Mithrandir> that'll sound _great_ on boomboxes like the x86-es.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> getting to .ca is cheap, it appears.
[09:47] <infinity> Not for me. :/
[09:47] <infinity> Getting anywhere from .au isn't cheap though.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> that's because .au is on the wrong side of the planet. :-)
[09:48] <robitaille> getting from one side of .ca to the other side is not that cheap... 
[09:49] <Mithrandir> getting from .no to .ca is ~4kNOK which is about 500EUR.
[09:51] <robitaille> my sister just did it (.ca to .ca), and she paid the equivalent of 450EUR.  
[09:51] <robitaille> but I could get free hotel my parent place...
[10:00] <Mithrandir> just tell them that you're at a developer gathering which takes up all the time?
[10:04] <wasabi> grrr.
[10:04] <wasabi> evms seg faulting. =(
[11:08] <infinity> Who is doing all the liblaunchpadintegration stuff?
[11:10] <Mithrandir> infinity: I think it's a mvo/jamesh/seb128 thing
[11:11] <Mithrandir> at least, they were talking about it on -meeting 20 hours ago
[11:15] <infinity> Right, well, it's broken.  I'll poke someone.
[11:15] <Treenaks> ooh! pokeage
[11:30] <Treenaks> infinity: I have the new firefox, and it still does the black areas thing
[12:15] <n> I've just tried the latest opensuse beta and I'm very impressed with its 'Suspend to disk' shutdown/boot feature which has halved my boot time. Will breezy implement this too?
[12:24] <wasabi> oh noes.
[12:24] <wasabi> i think evms may have clobbered my data.
[12:25] <wasabi> this is not good. *panic*
[12:40] <Nermal> any ideas if gaim 1.5.0 will be added to breezy before release ?
[12:41] <Nermal> or is there a package freeze in effect yet ?>
[01:09] <mez_> elmo, ping
[02:00] <teprrr> so hmm, what's this stuff about libxcursor-dev doesn't include libXcursor.la file anymore? how should I be able to compile stuff now?
[03:45] <d> I'm currently running Kubuntu Hoary w/ KDE 3.4.2. If I upgrade the kernel, will a 'Suspend to disk' option appear under the KDE shutdown menu? What kernel version do I need?
[04:07] <infinity> teprrr : You don't need .la files to compile anything..
[04:11] <Alex> Evenin'
[04:15] <ogra> infinity, could you have a look if my schoolbell/tool uploads ended up in the queue ? i seem to have wrongly assumed that jinty (schoolbell/tool maintainer) is whitelisted...
[04:48] <_d4vid> re all
[04:50] <_d4vid> play Sonny Black und Saad - fickdeinemutterslang
[04:51] <tseng> please turn that off.
[04:53] <infinity> ogra : Erm, which queue would that be?
[04:54] <ogra> infinity, upload ? 
[04:54] <ogra> pitti, hey
[04:54] <infinity> ogra : If it's not on -changes, I can't see it.  (ie: anything in queue/new is out of my jurisdiction)
[04:54] <pitti> Moin
[04:54] <ogra> infinity, oh, ok
[04:54] <ogra> infinity, thanks then
[04:54] <infinity> Yo pitti.
[04:55] <ogra> pitti, new schooltool/bell have no more debian dirs in orig.tar.gz :)
[04:55] <pitti> infinity: saw your uploads, will do them now. THanks a lot
[04:56] <infinity> pitti : NP.  Just needed to find a spare moment to do them.  Sorry for the delay. :/
[05:43] <pitti> (quit
[05:43] <theantix> heh
[06:31] <Mitario> hi everyone
[06:31] <bur[n] er> hola
[06:49] <infinity> seb128 : Want to look at totem's build failure and fix it?... Looks related to liblaunchpadintegration.
[06:49] <seb128> yeah, I've that on my list?
[06:49] <seb128> s/?/!/
[06:50] <seb128> infinity: have you planned to kick the libcairo stuff that stopped on pixman issue?
[06:50] <seb128> should I give you a list ?
[06:50] <infinity> seb128 : What is/was the issue?
[06:50] <seb128> cairo used to depends on libpixman
[06:50] <infinity> seb128 : And I can keep throwing stuff back over and over again, but it'd be nice if you told me it was going to work this time. :)
[06:51] <seb128> and now they have a copy of it (for stability reason, they don't want to expose cairo to pixman changes)
[06:51] <infinity> Ew.
[06:51] <seb128> so libcairo.la dropped the reference to libpixman
[06:51] <seb128> but a lot of other .la got the reference to it before
[06:51] <infinity> (.la files are evil)
[06:51] <seb128> since cairo doesn't grab libpixman
[06:51] <seb128> the builds break on the .la
[06:52] <infinity> But, uhm.  Dude.  Ew.  We're supposed to try to rid the world of statically bundled libraries, not introduce more.
[06:52] <seb128> with the eel2/nautilus/... list I give you that's fine now
[06:52] <seb128> we just need to push a rebuild for everything that had this issue
[06:52] <infinity> Well, I gave everything back after eel2/nautilus, so anything that's failed again is failed for all new issues...
[06:53] <seb128> weird
[06:53] <seb128> the daily build log pages has very few try for i386
[06:53] <infinity> I'll give it one more try.
[06:53] <infinity> My list may also be incomplete.
[06:53] <seb128> file-roller as an example
[06:53] <seb128> no retry since the 18th
[06:53] <seb128> and we fixed that yesterday, the 19th
[06:53] <seb128> I've a list of such example if you want ...
[06:53] <infinity> Yeahp, no file-roller in my list.  I rule.
[06:54] <infinity> If you have a complete list, by all means give it to me. :)
[06:55] <seb128> not really, I've a list of main packagew where binary_version != source_version
[06:57] <infinity> That list is about 500 source packages long.
[06:57] <infinity> (300 and something on i386, I guess)
[06:57] <seb128> clearlooks epiphany-browser evolution-exchange file-roller gconf-editor gnome-media gnome-netstatus gnome-panel gnome-pilot gnome-python gnome-python-extras gnome-system-tools gnopernicus gst-plugins0.8 nautilus-sendto
[06:57] <infinity> And not much help. :)
[06:57] <seb128> you can kick that
[06:58] <infinity> Alright, I added that to list of stuff I punted a few minutes ago.
[06:59] <infinity> We'll see what build after the next cron.daily.
[06:59] <infinity> s/build/builds/
[06:59] <jay> I'm trying to use the netboot images and I've tried 8/17, 8/18, 8/19, and current, but they all seem to fail in the same way though Colony 3 didn't.  Are any of these equivalent to Colony 3?
[07:00] <infinity> seb128 : Oh, want to look at oregano, too?  Looks like it's dying on cairo API breakage.
[07:01] <seb128> infinity: vte rhythmbox control-center gthumb gaim metacity vim 
[07:01] <seb128> these still depends on cairo1 too, probably to kick
[07:02] <infinity> seb128 : file-roller built.  Looks good.
[07:02] <seb128> rock
[07:02] <seb128> infinity: I'll have a look on cairo, I've noticed it ... but totem first :)
[07:03] <infinity> s/cairo/oregano/
[07:03] <infinity> I assume.
[07:03] <seb128> correct
[07:03] <seb128> totem builds fine here and on concordia
[07:05] <eruin> /usr/X11R6/bin/fglrxconfig
[07:05] <eruin> /usr/X11R6/bin/fglrxinfo
[07:05] <eruin> should I file a bug against this? seems wrong to have bin files nowhere near the path
[07:07] <infinity> seb128 : Using the same versions of all the build-deps (and clean chroots)?
[07:08] <infinity> seb128 : Looks like a missing -llaunchpadintegration somewhere to me.
[07:08] <seb128> infinity: no, I'm trying the chroot now. But the package a configure.ac change and a autoconf update ...
[07:11] <mdz> jay: netboot images won't ever be equivalent to CD images, because they're incomplete
[07:11] <mdz> jay: they will rely on the current state of the mirror at the time you install them
[07:14] <jay> mdz: should a bug be reported on it or is it currently a WIP still?
[07:14] <mdz> jay: it hasn't really seen any testing from our side; it depends on what the failure is
[07:15] <mdz> if it's just uninstallable packages, that's normal
[07:15] <jay> mdz:  a message box comes up (when the partitioner is about to start) that says:    ???   ????  <go back> <continue>  and it just infinite loops
[07:15] <seb128> ./configure: line 19903: PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG: command not found
[07:15] <seb128> hum
[07:16] <mdz> jay: that's deserving of a bug report, but be sure it isn't already reported
[07:16] <mdz> seb128: aclocal && autoconf?
[07:16] <jay> mdz: alright i'll check again to make sure.  thanks
[07:17] <seb128> mdz: no sure if that's normal, that happens on the totem build log but doesn't stop anything
[07:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, it doesn't stop anything?  It surely should?
[07:18] <ogra> mdz, could you move gnuchess and libassetml1 to main, they are approved in the main inclusion queue and would avoid the constant gcompris spam in the buildlogs
[07:20] <mdz> ogra: gcompris spam in buildlogs?
[07:20] <seb128> ./configure: line 19903: PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG: command not found
[07:20] <seb128> checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
[07:20] <seb128> ...
[07:20] <seb128> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/totem/1.1.4-0ubuntu2/totem_1.1.4-0ubuntu2_20050820-0952-i386-failed.gz
[07:20] <ogra> mdz, yes... http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/
[07:21] <ogra> gcompris cat build without gnuchess... but gets retried every 30 min it seems
[07:21] <wasabi> =( I think evms just friend my 500GBs of movies.
[07:21] <wasabi> fried
[07:21] <mdz> oh, in the gcompris build logs :-)
[07:21] <ogra> cant even
[07:21] <Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, there's something funky in how that configure was created.
[07:21] <seb128> Mithrandir: why ?
[07:21] <mdz> ogra: gnuchess is not in http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[07:21] <Mithrandir> seb128: because it's an unexpanded macro
[07:22] <mdz> ogra: gcompris does not build-depend on it
[07:22] <Mithrandir> seb128: from pkg.m4:
[07:22] <Mithrandir> AC_DEFUN([PKG_CHECK_EXISTS] ,
[07:22] <Mithrandir> [AC_REQUIRE([PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG] )dnl
[07:22] <Mithrandir> but for some reason, PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG wasn't expanded.
[07:22] <mdz> ogra: unless you changed that just today
[07:22] <mdz> jammcq: hey
[07:22] <ogra> mdz, err, nope.. it depends on it, but doesnt build depend...
[07:22] <seb128> Mithrandir: what is charged to expand it?
[07:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's missing from aclocal.m4
[07:23] <mdz> ogra: what depends on it?
[07:23] <ogra> gcompris 
[07:24] <ogra> afaik...
[07:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: but gets added if I run aclocal-1.7 by hand
[07:24] <mdz> mizar:[/etc/gdm]  apt-cache show gcompris | grep gnuchess
[07:24] <mdz> zsh: done       noglob apt-cache show gcompris |
[07:24] <mdz> ogra: it looks like someone uploaded a new version with a new build-dep on gnuchess
[07:25] <mdz> since the last germinate
[07:25] <ogra> mdz, thats very strange
[07:25] <ogra> seb128, that was your upload i assume then
[07:25] <mdz> does it have some evil automatic modification of control?
[07:26] <ogra> hmm, it shouldnt... no control.in afaik... lest me pull the source
[07:26] <mdz> the source is huge
[07:26] <ogra> yup
[07:27] <ogra> mdz, i'm getting used to huge sources with edubuntu ... see nvu :/
[07:27] <jammcq> mdz: ho
[07:27] <seb128> ogra: what my upload, of what?
[07:27] <seb128> ogra: the cairo upload are "no changes upload"
[07:27] <ogra> seb128, gcompris rebuild for cairo....
[07:27] <seb128> that's just "apt-get source .. dch"
[07:28] <ogra> strange
[07:28] <ogra> i'll look at the source and fix whats necessary...
[07:29] <\sh> this is not my day
[07:29] <\sh> 4 hours in the morning, now 4 hours in the evening...I didn't get any sleep..but work for the company
[07:30] <infinity> mdz : Once the last libgl1-xorg deps are dead in main (which should be true in a cron.daily or two), I assume I have a green light to fix {ed,k,}ubuntu-meta? (-desktop depends on libgl1-xorg)
[07:30] <mdz> ogra: gcompris is scheduled for demotion to universe
[07:30] <mdz> according to anastacia
[07:30] <infinity> mdz : Uploads are signed and queued, just waiting untul the new X builds, which kills libgl1-xorg from the x-window-system-core metapackage (which -desktop also depends on)
[07:30] <ogra> mdz, why ? 
[07:30] <ogra> mdz, it was approve already
[07:30] <mdz> ogra: packages only go in main when they are seeded, or a dependency of a seeded package
[07:31] <mdz> (do I need to add that to /topic?)
[07:31] <mdz> infinity: wtf is that doing in a seed?
[07:31] <infinity> mdz : Send it out in a "tips for new employees" brochure when people sign on.
[07:31] <mdz> infinity: oh, indirectly through the metapackage
[07:31] <ogra> mdz, ah... i commented it to have edubuntu-desktop installable again... until all other deps are approved too
[07:31] <ogra> (which is done)
[07:32] <mdz> ogra: don't do that
[07:32] <ogra> mdz, Kamion told me so... sorry
[07:32] <infinity> mdz : Actually, I have NO idea why it's ALSO depended on by the -desktop metapackages, since the metapackages depend on x-window-system-core, which in turn depends on GL.  Hrm.  I could/should just kill the dep completely, rather than switching it.
[07:32] <mdz> infinity: the metapackages are generated straight from the seeds, so if there's a direct dep (and it wasn't hand hacked), someone seeded it
[07:33] <\sh> hmmm...
[07:33] <\sh> usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libgfx_gtk.so: undefined symbol: pango_xft_get_font_map
[07:33] <\sh> nice
[07:33] <mdz> ./desktop: * libgl1-xorg # depended upon by libgl1-xorg-dri, but lsb dep on virtual libgl1 makes it ordering-dependent
[07:33] <infinity> mdz : Looks like a longstanding thing.  I see in the changelog where the xlibmesa-gl dep was switched to libgl1-xorg.  Weird.
[07:34] <mdz> infinity: so it's a workaround for lsb confusing germinate
[07:34] <infinity> mdz : lsb depends on libgl1-mesa | libgl1 ... (well, it does now, used to be libgl1-xorg | libgl1)
[07:34] <mdz> oh
[07:34] <infinity> mdz : Either way, doesn't germinate prefer the first alternate, and go with that?
[07:34] <mdz> then we can remove that
[07:34] <mdz> infinity: yes, but lsb used to depend on "libgl1"
[07:34] <infinity> Ahh.  Well, fixed now.
[07:35] <mdz> infinity: let's wait for the dust to settle before changing the seed, but I think we can remove that
[07:35] <infinity> Kay, but I will need to change the metpackages by hand, then, or people will have conflicting packaging on their hands.
[07:36] <infinity> (Which I was prepared to do anyway, I didn't realise they were automated via the seeds)
[07:36] <infinity> In retrospect, I suppose that should have been obvious.
[07:36] <mdz> ogra: ah, I see, the dep isn't new; it was just broken when gcompris was moved to main, and by removing it from the seed, you caused germinate to ignore its deps, so they never showed up for promotion to main
[07:37] <ogra> mdz, ok... i'll re add it to the desktop seed....
[07:37] <mdz> infinity: apt-get source ubuntu-meta && cd ... && ./update && build
[07:37] <mdz> ogra: _all_ of its deps have approved reports now?
[07:37] <ogra> mdz, yup
[07:37] <ogra> mdz, i'm only missin 3 server reports and have two packages that need work, then edubuntu is sorted
[07:38] <infinity> mdz : Slick.  But if you're saying I should keep the change out of the seeds for now, I assume I should just hand-hack desktop-* for now, then ./update in a later upload after the dust has indeed settled and the seeds have been shuffled?
[07:38] <mdz> infinity: no, go ahead and change the seed, but change the package name rather than removing it entirely for now
[07:39] <infinity> mdz : Ahh, check.  Consider it done.
[07:39] <mdz> infinity: you need to wait up to 10 minutes or so for the seeds to be refreshed at ~cjwatson before running update
[07:39] <mdz> which is really a bug which should be fixed
[07:39] <mdz> but pretty much everything which looks at the seed does that
[07:39] <mdz> s/seed/seeds/
[07:39] <infinity> Fair nuff.  I'm waiting on some builds anyway, so it's no big deal.
[07:40] <\sh> infinity: make that firefox works again ;)
[07:42] <ogra> ARGH
[07:42] <ogra> arch_run_editor: please set $EDITOR
[07:42] <ogra> i hate baz for not falling back to a default $EDITOR
[07:42] <ogra> GRR
[07:45] <mdz> ogra: don't forget to merge ubuntu->edubuntu seeds from time to time
[07:45] <mdz> I have been doing it for you
[07:45] <ogra> mdz, i just did that 5 mins ago before the commit... hopefully they dont clash now
[07:46] <mdz> I just removed a package from supported
[07:46] <mdz> every time we do that, we need to merge or it doesn't take effect
[07:46] <ogra> yup, Kamion explained that to me... sorry for being so slow in understanding the anactacia stuff
[07:46] <ogra> but i thin i got it now
[07:47] <ogra> think even
[07:48] <mdz> I have tried to add some documentation as we go
[07:48] <mdz> hopefully the procedure on maininclusionqueue is clear now
[07:48] <ogra> and i finally convinced edubuntu-server to be on the CD.... :)
[07:48] <mdz> we should document the metapackage stuff somewhere
[07:49] <mdz> Mithrandir: where is your unionfs casper branch again?
[07:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: tollef.fog.heen@canonical.com/casper--unionfs--0
[07:56] <infinity> ogra : You may want to sync your seeds again, then.
[07:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
[07:59] <mdz> Mithrandir: I've made a breezy branch and merged that into mainline, thanks
[07:59] <mdz> (that = your unionfs branch)
[08:02] <ogra> infinity, thanks
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: I thought unionfs was breezy+1?
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: since it didn't make FF
[08:04] <mdz> Mithrandir: right.  I've created a breezy branch, and I've merged your changes onto mainline (not the breezy branch)
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: ah, then I understand. :-)
[08:06] <infinity> mdz : Now that xorg's libraries have all been fully modularised, would it not be a good idea to stop explicitly seeding them all, and let germinate just do its job figuring out what we actually need?
[08:06] <mdz> infinity: them all?  are we doing that for something other than libgl?
[08:06] <elmo> we shouldn't seed any libraries IMO
[08:07] <infinity> mdz : I just noticed that supported pretty much has everything that used to be generated from xorg source explicitly seeded.
[08:07] <mdz> elmo: we only do it where germinate does the wrong thing and it's hard to fix
[08:07] <mdz> infinity: oh, you mean the -dev/-dbg packages
[08:07] <infinity> Including some stuff we don't actually ship anymore.
[08:08] <mdz> right, I've been clearing that stuff out as I notice it, but we need to do a thorough audit for stuff which is only in main due to a -dev package in supported
[08:08] <elmo> archive not registered: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:08] <elmo> how the christing bananas did baz lose that?
[08:09] <infinity> mdz : Yeah, a mess of dev stuff, it looks like.  Isn't germinate supposed to DTRT with build-deps for dev packages?
[08:09] <mjg59> mdz: Can we shift toshset to main in the near future?
[08:10] <mdz> infinity: it does.  however, we found that in the end we had a whole bunch of -dev packages ending up in extra because we were using one binary from the source and not others
[08:10] <mdz> mjg59: wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionQueue
[08:10] <mdz> er
[08:10] <mdz> UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[08:13] <ogra> err, the packagenamed in the seeds are source packages, right ? has someone a suggestion why i am told that gartoon isnt available ... ? its definately there...
[08:13] <ogra> packagenames indeed
[08:15] <mjg59> elmo: Can you sync toshset from unstable?
[08:16] <infinity> ogra : No, seeds are binary packages.
[08:17] <ogra> eeek... ok
[08:17] <ogra> i'm silly, ignore me... *sigh*
[08:17] <infinity> (I expected them to be a mix of source/binary, like Packages-arch-specific when I first looked at them, and was disappointed to find out they weren't)
[08:21] <ogra> indeed its logical to have the binary names in there, since you might not want all binarys from one source in main....
[08:22] <infinity> Right, but since you may also want the complete source, a P-a-s style %source notation would be nice.
[08:22] <infinity> Oh well.
[08:23] <tseng> that would avoid things like changing binary package names around and having things suddenly demoted to universe
[08:23] <tseng> leaving stupid people like me fairly confused
[08:24] <infinity> It would also cover the "we want all the -dbg/-dev package for libfoo installed" case, without naming them all.
[08:24] <infinity> But it's a put up or shut up thing, I'm sure, and I haven't even looked at germinates code yet.
[08:25] <infinity> s/germinates/germinate's/
[08:33] <leonel> so ... to upgrade from hoary new install  to breezy  just  apt-get dist-upgrade ?   
[08:35] <mdz> leonel: #ubuntu, please
[08:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: what's the difference between pkgconfig and pkg-config?
[08:39] <infinity> elmo : Is jackass still running on only one CPU?
[08:40] <infinity> mdz : Gratuitous renaming.  The latter is the canonical name, I believe.
[08:40] <infinity> At least, I think that's the direction I renamed the CVS module...
[08:41] <mdz> ogra: schoolbell has an inclusion report but is not seeded
[08:43] <ogra> mdz, its only a dependency from schooltool which is pending, since sadfl requested a new upstream version first... i told pitti to wait until thats in (got the new source today from jinty and uploaded)
[08:44] <ogra> mdz, we only need libschoolbell...
[08:45] <ogra> s/from/of
[08:45] <mdz> ogra: I've promoted everything which was approved and in anastacia
[08:45] <ogra> mdz, thanks a lot :)
[08:45] <mdz> but there are several extraneous reports for packages which are not seeded
[08:46] <ogra> from edubuntu ? 
[08:47] <mdz> yes, mostly
[08:47] <mdz> scons ftgl blender kio-apt xaos gnuchess libassetm1 schoolbell
[08:47] <ogra> they are in the package i just upload
[08:47] <ogra> i uncommented evrything now... 
[08:48] <mdz> package?
[08:48] <ogra> execpt nvu
[08:48] <ogra>    * Added gcompris to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
[08:48] <ogra>    * Added tuxpaint to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
[08:48] <ogra>    * Added blender to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
[08:48] <ogra>    * Added gnome-icon-theme-gartoon to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64,
[08:48] <ogra>      desktop-powerpc
[08:48] <ogra>    * Added tuxmath to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
[08:48] <mdz> ogra: I don't understand.  did you add those by hand?
[08:48] <ogra>    * Added xaos to desktop-i386, desktop-amd64, desktop-powerpc
[08:48] <mdz> blender is in universe
[08:49] <mdz> tuxpaint is in universe
[08:49] <mdz> xaos is in universe
[08:49] <mdz> the update script doesn't add packages which are not in main.  how did you do this?
[08:49] <ogra> they are in the seeds
[08:50] <mdz> please tell me what you did
[08:50] <ogra> i had uncommented them temporarily
[08:50] <mdz> in edubuntu-meta
[08:50] <ogra> i ran the update script after updating the seeds
[08:50] <mdz> ARGH
[08:50] <mdz> you added universe to the update script??
[08:50] <ogra> nope
[08:50] <mdz> someone did
[08:50] <ogra> i didnt touch the update script ecept uncommenting the unsupported arches as you told me
[08:51] <ogra> ok, from the beginning:
[08:51] <mdz> someone did, and it wasn't me or colin
[08:52] <ogra> 1. i added everything to the seeds and ran the update script for the first time... this left edubuntu-desktop and -server uninstallable for weeks...
[08:52] <ogra> 2. Kamion told me to comment the unneeded stuff for now...
[08:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: pkgconfig is the old, deprecated source package name.
[08:52] <ogra> 3. i uncommented what was approved
[08:53] <mdz> ogra: the very first version of edubuntu-meta has universe in the update script
[08:53] <mdz> this is wrong
[08:53] <mdz> no wonder its packages were uninstallable for months
[08:54] <ogra> hmm... i didnt touch it... i'm pretty sure... but its enabled here too... strange
[08:54] <mdz> ogra: who made the package, if not you?
[08:54] <ogra> i took ubuntu-meta....
[08:54] <mdz> ...which does not and has never had universe in the update script...
[08:54] <ogra> hmm... 
[08:55] <ogra> i really cant remember touching the update script except when you told me ....
[08:55] <ogra> i correcte it now
[08:55] <ogra> corrected even
[08:56] <mdz> ogra: please don't upload
[08:56] <mdz> I will fix it
[08:56] <mdz> did you already upload a 0.10?  I don't see it in the queue or in the archive
[08:56] <mdz> forget it; I'll upload 0.11
[08:57] <ogra> no, i just killed the upload and wiped the -0.10 dir
[08:57] <mdz> 0.11 uploaded
[08:58] <ogra> ok, thanks.... sorry for making so much fuss, but i still dont know how universe got in there...
[08:58] <mdz> ogra: the update script is written so that it doesn't add packages to the dependencies unless they are in main
[08:58] <mdz> ogra: for the express purpose of avoiding the package being uninstallable
[08:58] <mdz> you disabled that check by adding universe
[08:58] <ogra> yes, i understand that...
[09:01] <infinity> Meh.  I spend all day berating people for not testing before uploading, then catch myself doing it twice in a row.  Perhaps I'll take myself out back and shoot myself.
[09:04] <mdz> ogra: I imagine that you thought it should be there because some of the packages you wanted were in universe
[09:04] <mdz> but the packages are designed to work within main, and all edubuntu packages should be in main
[09:05] <mdz> we talked about that, but perhaps it was after you created the package
[09:05] <ogra> mdz, might be, but i *absolutely* cant remember editing it... thats what bothers me...
[09:06] <\sh> mjg59: u rock
[09:06] <\sh> and I packaged gajim 0.8 right now...and it's the best gtk jabber client I know now
[09:06] <\sh> just PSI for gtk
[09:07] <\sh> with dbus capabilities
[09:07] <\sh> and written in python
[09:08] <mdz> mjg59: what are we going to do about swsusp vs. kernel mismatches for breezy?
[09:10] <mdz> mjg59: ideally we ought to refuse to suspend if the new default kernel is different from the old default kernel; that won't catch all cases but I think they probably deserve what they get if they explicitly choose a different kernel
[09:10] <mdz> mjg59: unfortunately I don't see a way to make it work nicely without parsing menu.lst
[09:10] <Keybuk> ya know, once again I'm reminded of one thing about GNOME that *really* needs to be fixed
[09:10] <Keybuk> apps that don't save their config/state when you logout while they're running
[09:14] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah. Something needs to deal with grub.
[09:46] <{Seb}> it seems flashplayer-mozilla has gone from multiverse
[09:46] <{Seb}> in breezy
[09:46] <{Seb}> sorry - ignore that
[09:58] <mdz> mjg59: mailed you a gross hack
[09:59] <Mez> elmo: can you whitelist muszilla@users.sourceforge.net if he's not whitelisted already
[10:00] <mjg59> mdz: Heh. Right, I'll check it out later on
 and I packaged gajim 0.8 right now...and it's the best gtk jabber client I know now
[10:00] <JanC> c66l8
[10:01] <mjg59> If people could test http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/tmp/irda-setup.sh I would love them forever
[10:01] <mdz> mjg59: if you know how to look up symbols inside a vmlinuz, it could be made quite a lot more accurate by extracting system_utsname
[10:01] <JanC> hm, that should have been "cool!" (keyboard fucked up again)
[10:01] <mjg59> mdz: Not off the top of my head
[10:02] <Mithrandir> mjg59: 22:02:06 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
[10:02] <mdz> I suppose it'd be a matter of un-gzipping the right bit and correlating with System.map
[10:02] <mdz> but I'm far too lazy
[10:03] <\sh> guys...I'm surprised...gnome looks better then a week ago
[10:05] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Uhm. Try again?
[10:05] <mjg59> Oh. That's odd.
[10:05] <Mithrandir> still 403
[10:05] <mjg59> It's a+w
[10:05] <mjg59> Hrm.
[10:05] <mjg59> Lose the .sh at the end
[10:06] <mjg59> Something on the server doesn't like shell screipts
[10:06] <mjg59> ogra: Looks like your machine ought to be using nsc-ircc
[10:06] <Mithrandir> mjg59: got it
[10:07] <Mithrandir> mjg59: how do you want me to test it?  Apart from running it and seeing it complain about missing setserial, I mean. :-P
[10:07] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Heh. Install setserial, run it, tell me what /var/run/irdadev looks like
[10:08] <Mithrandir> mjg59: you'll break my suspend now, you know that?
[10:08] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, probably
[10:08] <Mithrandir> Illegal UART type: undefined
[10:08] <Mithrandir> irda-setup: line 63: true=false: command not found
[10:08] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > cat /var/run/irdadev
[10:08] <Mithrandir> /dev/ttyS1 sir
[10:09] <mjg59> Whoops
[10:09] <mjg59> Excessive $
[10:09] <Mithrandir> you haven't tested this on your x40 at all? :-P
[10:09] <mjg59> I have, but you have a later BIOS version
[10:10] <mjg59> So it actually works for you
[10:10] <mjg59> Mine has broken IR
[10:10] <Mithrandir> ah, ok
[10:10] <Mithrandir> mine has spoken with my phone on several occasions
[10:11] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Can you grab it again and retry?
[10:11] <Mithrandir> cat /var/run/irdadev
[10:11] <Mithrandir> irda0 fir
[10:11] <Mithrandir> no error messages
[10:11] <mjg59> Ok, that looks better
[10:11] <mjg59> Rock
[10:11] <mjg59> Now I just need more PNP IDs
[10:11] <mjg59> And to rewrite irda-utils
[10:18] <\sh> mjg59: what u need? I have this nc6000 with the smsc-ircc2 chipset which is not working 
[10:20] <mjg59> \sh: If you run the code from http://www.csai.unipa.it/peri/toshsat1800-irdasetup/ does smsc-ircc2 work?
[10:21] <\sh> mjg59: I tried...never successfull
[10:22] <\sh> but I will give it a try again...
[10:22] <\sh> I think I should take the time to test irda on the portege
[10:23] <mjg59> \sh: You've seen http://people.debian.org/~pxt/nc6000/ ?
[10:24] <desrt> what do y'all think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CACertInclusion
[10:25] <\sh> mjg59: not until now :)
[10:25] <\sh> mjg59: I will give it a try tomorrow morning :)
[10:25] <\sh> right now I need to test gajim
[10:25] <mjg59> desrt: It would currently involve changing the name of Firefox to something else
[10:26] <desrt> mjg59; isn't that why we already call it "firefox" instead of "mozilla firefox" and use a different icon?
[10:26] <mjg59> desrt: No
[10:26] <mjg59> It's called "firefox" rather than "mozilla firefox" to indicate that it's not the official build. Changing the default SSL certificates would require changing it away from firefox
[10:26] <desrt> that's extremely harsh
[10:27] <mjg59> Yeah
[10:28] <Mithrandir> cacert is pushing for their root cert to be included upstream, though
[10:29] <desrt> ya
[10:29] <desrt> someone just gave me a link to a ranting blog entry
[10:29] <desrt> i'm not sure what to make of it, but it sounds like mozilla are being dickslaps about it
[10:30] <desrt> http://blog.cacert.org/2005/07/81.html
[10:30] <tseng> eh, not everyone trusts cacert
[10:31] <Mithrandir> tseng: their CA policy is just fine, IMO, but they're on crack wrt some of the GPG stuff
[10:32] <mjg59> Mozilla won't accept the CA root certificate until they're satisfied that they hand it out sensibly
[10:33] <tseng> their blog is funny
[10:33] <desrt> and up to here, sensibly ~= "with a large fee for services rendered"
[10:34] <tseng> capitalism == bad, and wep can be cracked in "minutes"
 eh, not everyone trusts cacert
[10:35] <JanC> I don't trust verisign...
[10:35] <desrt> ya
[10:35] <JanC> if _I_ can get a cert for a (not yet) existing company, everybody can...
[10:36] <desrt> SSL is only vaguely trustworthy as an authentication method
[10:36] <tseng> eh, i dont "trust" anyone that isnt a well established business for some time *AND* has a valid cert
[10:36] <tseng> but thats probabyl a different issue
[10:36] <desrt> "valid" according to what?
[10:36] <desrt> some other business says "oh ya.. you can trust these guys"
[10:37] <tseng> yes
[10:37] <desrt> ...
[10:37] <\sh> hmmm....
[10:37] <\sh> /usr/include/python2.4/pyconfig.h:835:1: warning: "_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined
[10:37] <\sh> how can I get rid of this error?
[10:37] <azeem> it's a warning
[10:38] <\sh> yeah...is there a way of getting rid of it?
[10:38] <tseng> desrt: the cert validating amazon.com doesnt protect me 100% from someone squatting on it from the begining
[10:38] <tseng> desrt: but it does offer you something for MiM or similar
[10:43] <Mithrandir> tseng: do you think it's by accident that all the canonical certs are self-signed even though sabdfl did Thawte?
[10:43] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: erm. it is, actually. i think we're starting to get a few from komodo now :-)
[10:43] <\sh> LOL
[10:44] <tseng> :)
[10:44] <tseng> comodo I think
[10:44] <sabdfl> we tried to get some from thawte but they proved too difficult to deal with
[10:44] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: we are?  Amazing :-)  Might get rid of some of those multiple ssl vhosts on the same ip as well in the process?
[10:44] <\sh> sabdfl: u r surprising me every single time u r appearing from nowhere ,-)
[10:45] <sabdfl> currently appearing from my kitchen
[10:45] <desrt> just get certs from cacert
[10:45] <Mithrandir> \sh: I think his IRC client went "bling" when I said his name.
[10:45] <sabdfl> \sh: ^
[10:45] <sabdfl> tho i was just in another window, hacking on my w/e gift to the launchpad team
[10:45] <mdz> sabdfl: fingers bleeding yet?
[10:46] <sabdfl> mdz: somewha
[10:46] <sabdfl> t
[10:46] <\sh> Mithrandir: hmmm....or sabdfl wrote an irssi plugin for sending out sms to his mobile when his name is hilighted 
[10:46] <sabdfl> silbs doesn't believe i can add an LP subsystem in a weekend
[10:46] <Mithrandir> \sh: he doesn't use irssi, TTBOMK
[10:46] <\sh> no irssi? come on...,-)
[10:46] <mdz> sabdfl: "can" or "should"? ;-)
[10:47] <\sh> hmmm....rhythmbox and rbscrobbler are not running anymore together
[10:48] <\sh> ah now...it lost the password somehow
[10:49] <desrt> \sh; oh.  they were deprecated
[11:09] <\sh> ogra__: how many gnome/gtk uploads I should do per release cycle?
[11:10] <ogra__> \sh, as many as you like indeed :)
[11:10] <ogra__> mjg59, thanks for the info.. i'll check if i can use nsc-ircc
[11:10] <\sh> ogra__: check this out: throw away gaim ,-) use gajim ;) http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/81-Gajim-The-PSI-on-Gnome.html
[11:11] <mjg59> ogra__: Could you try running http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/tmp/irda-setup and tell me what /var/run/irdadev looks like afterwards?
[11:12] <ogra__> mjg59, yup... downloading that was the last thing i tried before my wlan broke :) tryin again now...
[11:12] <mjg59> ogra__: The name's a bit misleading - this will only set up IRDA, not actually start it
[11:12] <mjg59> I need to modify irda-utils to handle that
[11:17] <ogra__> mjg59, setserial isnt installed by default it seems
[11:17] <mjg59> ogra__: Indeed
[11:18] <ogra__> [84615.106088]  nsc_ircc: Unknown parameter `0'
[11:18] <ogra__> (dmesg output)
[11:19] <mjg59> ogra__: Gah.
[11:19] <mjg59> ogra__: Edit it and change "OPTIONS=0" to OPTIONS=""
[11:20] <ogra__> [84650.513255]  nsc-ircc, Found chip at base=0x02e
[11:20] <ogra__> [84650.513268]  nsc-ircc, driver loaded (Dag Brattli)
[11:20] <ogra__> [84650.515628]  IrDA: Registered device irda0
[11:20] <ogra__> [84650.515654]  nsc-ircc, Found dongle: HP HSDL-1100/HSDL-2100
[11:20] <ogra__> looks good
[11:20] <mjg59> ogra__: Rock
[11:20] <mjg59> ogra__: What does /var/run/irdadev have?
[11:20] <mjg59> And what hardware is this?
[11:20] <ogra__> irda0 fir
[11:21] <ogra__> still my amd64 laptop (acer Aspire 1520)
[11:21] <mjg59> Cool
[11:21] <mjg59> That all looks good
[11:21] <torkel> same for me, with a Thinkpad T40
[11:22] <torkel> [4582947.644000]  nsc-ircc, Using dongle: IBM31T1100 or Temic TFDS6000/TFDS6500
[11:23] <seth_k> Treenaks, planet RSS still dead, don't think you changed the right bits :(
[11:24] <mjg59> torkel: Rocking
[11:24] <mjg59> Basically, what this does is look through your PNP data and try to find an IR device
[11:24] <torkel> mjg59: nice
[11:24] <mjg59> If it finds a fast IR device, it works out which serial port it's attached to and turns off the UART
[11:24] <mjg59> Then it loads the driver
[11:25] <mjg59> If the driver loading fails, or if it can't work out which driver to use, it sets the serial port up to match the PNP data
[11:25] <mjg59> Then it records this information in a format that can be parsed by irda-utils when it starts up
[11:26] <mjg59> Basically, all SIR ports (and most FIR ones) have a PNP of PNP0510 or PNP0511 associated with them
[11:26] <mjg59> So this is actually fairly easy
[11:26] <mjg59> No idea why nobody's written it before
[11:26] <ogra__> heh...
[11:26] <mjg59> Most FIR ones have a model specific thing that lets you work out the chip, too
[11:38] <sabdfl> mdz: you may have a point
[11:40] <mjg59> Damni. No, acpipnp is missing entries on some machines.
[11:52] <Nafallo> LOL
[11:53] <mdz> elmo: hpoj seems to need some help getting back into universe
[11:53] <bob_too> you got is working?
[11:53] <bob_too> wrong channel sorry
[11:53] <ogra> yay, ltsp-client is installable again... finaly