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Burgundavia | highvoltage, jerome is knee-deep in edubuntu stuff | 02:30 |
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Burgundavia | highvoltage, rob^ and mgalvin are working on the faqguide | 02:31 |
Burgundavia | highvoltage, and I will be working on the quicktour tomorrow | 02:31 |
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Burgundavia | mdke, is there much difference between the two T43's | 04:43 |
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Burgundavia | jdub, hey | 06:11 |
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Madpilot | hi all | 06:13 |
Madpilot | rob^: you around? | 06:13 |
Burgundavia | jdub, I specifically asked for a UI freeze for us because the theme changed at the last minute in Hoary | 06:13 |
jdub | the engine won't be changing | 06:14 |
Burgundavia | but the look might | 06:14 |
Burgundavia | all I care about is for screenshots | 06:14 |
jdub | in large part, it won't | 06:14 |
jdub | ui freeze doesn't cover artwork | 06:14 |
Burgundavia | oh | 06:14 |
jdub | but in general, the basic building blocks are set | 06:14 |
Burgundavia | that was my understanding | 06:14 |
Burgundavia | 29th probably wont give us enough time to take all the screenshots that might have changed for all translations | 06:15 |
Burgundavia | I thought we had a month for the translators to do that | 06:15 |
jdub | the engine won't change | 06:16 |
Burgundavia | but the look will | 06:16 |
jdub | that doesn't mean anything | 06:16 |
Burgundavia | yes it does | 06:16 |
jdub | dude | 06:16 |
jdub | the gtk theme won't change | 06:16 |
jdub | the metacity theme may change | 06:16 |
jdub | (but i doubt it) | 06:17 |
Burgundavia | jdub, I hear you. in my screenshooters hat, I am saying, I don't care about what actaully changes | 06:17 |
jdub | most of it will be nailed down before the 29th | 06:17 |
Burgundavia | I am merely saying that that the 29th is probably too late for us | 06:17 |
jdub | yes, you do care about what actually changes | 06:17 |
jdub | because the majority of screenshots you can take without caring | 06:17 |
Burgundavia | sorry, bad wording | 06:17 |
jdub | there are very few screenshots that should include: | 06:18 |
jdub | - background | 06:18 |
jdub | - application / file manager icons | 06:18 |
jdub | - splash screen (none, really) | 06:18 |
jdub | - usplash (none, really) | 06:18 |
jdub | etc. | 06:18 |
Burgundavia | ouch | 06:18 |
Burgundavia | I totally misunderstood UI freeze | 06:19 |
Burgundavia | I thought it meant that the UI was not going to change, period | 06:19 |
Burgundavia | the look and the code was set | 06:19 |
jdub | no | 06:19 |
jdub | the UI will not change | 06:19 |
jdub | the artwork may | 06:19 |
Burgundavia | yes, I thought UI included both | 06:19 |
jdub | but if you listen, you'll understand that the majority of screenshot subjects *won't* change | 06:19 |
Burgundavia | someone still needs to sort through and figure out | 06:20 |
Burgundavia | jdub, is humility going to be default? | 06:20 |
jdub | undecided | 06:21 |
Madpilot | don't you mean "Human" for a theme? | 06:21 |
Madpilot | or has that name changed too? | 06:21 |
jdub | Madpilot: it will be called human, yes | 06:21 |
Burgundavia | jdub, to be honest, I am deeply scared that we are going to repeat the Hoary mess. The theme changed at the last minute at made all of our screenshots look terrible | 06:21 |
Burgundavia | hence why we asked for UI freeze | 06:21 |
jdub | if we switch to the SVG theme as late as artwork freeze date, then there will only be very few screenshots you need to redo | 06:21 |
Burgundavia | yes, but we have to find them first | 06:22 |
jdub | it's not hard, dude | 06:22 |
jdub | if it's a full screen shot, or involves the file manager or panel menus, that'll change | 06:22 |
Burgundavia | gah | 06:23 |
Burgundavia | I just think we need a bit more certainty in this | 06:23 |
jdub | there should be very few of those in ubuntu documentation | 06:23 |
jdub | certainty: | 06:23 |
Burgundavia | we have 3 docs on the plan for release: | 06:23 |
jdub | the widget theme will not change from now | 06:23 |
Burgundavia | faqguide, quicktour, and edubuntu cookbook | 06:24 |
jdub | the metacity theme is wildly unlikely to change from now | 06:24 |
Burgundavia | jdub, I understand that the widget set will not change | 06:24 |
Burgundavia | I totally understand all the various parts, etc. | 06:24 |
Burgundavia | what I am saying is that the screenshot doesn't care what changes, if *one* thing in a screenshot changes, we need to reshot it | 06:24 |
Burgundavia | and so do all the translators | 06:25 |
jdub | then i don't think you really understand at all | 06:25 |
jdub | the two artwork items that will affect the vast majority of screenshots are the gtk+ and metacity themes | 06:25 |
Burgundavia | yes | 06:25 |
jdub | those are enormously unlikely to change | 06:25 |
jdub | thus, most of your screenshots, from UI freeze, will not have to be reshot | 06:25 |
Burgundavia | a metacity theme change like we had in Hoary would be a total disaster | 06:26 |
jdub | the metacity theme didn't change in hoary | 06:26 |
jdub | the gtk+ theme did | 06:26 |
Burgundavia | ok | 06:26 |
jdub | but complaining about what happened in hoary is irrelevant | 06:26 |
jdub | as above, the only one that may change is the metacity theme, and even that is vastly unlikely | 06:27 |
Burgundavia | I realize that | 06:27 |
jdub | from that, we have: | 06:27 |
jdub | - possible icon theme change | 06:27 |
jdub | - definite background change | 06:27 |
jdub | both of which impact only a small number of screenshots | 06:27 |
Burgundavia | jdub, I accept your reassurance but will reserve judgement until I see the actual changes | 06:28 |
jdub | perhaps it would be wise to take the above on board and look at which screenshots will be effected | 06:29 |
Burgundavia | I will parse through the faqguide tomorrow | 06:29 |
Burgundavia | I also plan to write most of the quicktour tomorrow | 06:30 |
jdub | if any involve panel menus or are full screen shots unnecessarily, they can be zapped | 06:30 |
Burgundavia | a quick parse of the quicktour as it exists shows that about 1/4 would have to replaced with an icon theme change | 06:32 |
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Burgundavia | morning jsgotangco | 06:55 |
jsgotangco | hi! | 06:55 |
Burgundavia | I have a free day tomorrow to actually write! | 06:56 |
jsgotangco | lol how is your new job? | 06:56 |
Burgundavia | quicktour should be mostly done by tomorrow this time | 06:56 |
Burgundavia | tiring but still interesting | 06:56 |
jsgotangco | i'm sorry if i haven't devoted that much time for the quick tour | 06:56 |
jsgotangco | i am trying to divide my time between commits and real life | 06:57 |
Burgundavia | np | 06:57 |
Burgundavia | I had no free time last week either | 06:57 |
Burgundavia | only able to install Colony 3 last night | 06:57 |
jsgotangco | i was trying to do a small article similar to the gnome preview for breezy | 06:57 |
jsgotangco | my M2 doesn't like Ubuntu one bit | 06:58 |
Burgundavia | ouch | 06:58 |
Burgundavia | mine even hibernates now! | 06:58 |
jsgotangco | either that or it just dislikes X.org | 06:58 |
jsgotangco | mine does too | 06:58 |
jsgotangco | even brightness works | 06:58 |
jsgotangco | most of the function keys are useless though | 06:58 |
Burgundavia | tosh seesm to have a bunch crazy 3rd party utils | 06:59 |
Burgundavia | most of them are crap | 06:59 |
jsgotangco | X still has a lot of issues from Colony 3, even the scroll wheel of a usb mouse doesnt work | 06:59 |
Burgundavia | my docking station is mostly useless | 06:59 |
Burgundavia | power works through it but not much else | 07:00 |
jsgotangco | wow you have a doc? | 07:00 |
jsgotangco | i must admit though, this M2 beside me is really nice for a windows laptop | 07:00 |
Burgundavia | I even have atheros inside | 07:01 |
Burgundavia | so I can get my wireless working easily | 07:01 |
jsgotangco | jeezz how big is that machine | 07:01 |
Burgundavia | 4.9 pounds | 07:01 |
Burgundavia | 15" screen | 07:01 |
jsgotangco | im not sure what mine uses but wireless works out of the box | 07:01 |
Burgundavia | think you have atheros as well | 07:01 |
jsgotangco | widescreen? | 07:01 |
Burgundavia | yes, 1280x768 | 07:02 |
jsgotangco | crap | 07:02 |
jsgotangco | that's a multimedia hound | 07:02 |
Burgundavia | it was even detected correctly in Hoary and Breezy | 07:02 |
Burgundavia | and sound was as well | 07:03 |
jsgotangco | do you have a good sound system or a generic one? | 07:03 |
jsgotangco | mine is basically a business model | 07:03 |
Burgundavia | basic, mine is also a business model | 07:04 |
jsgotangco | did you experience having your screen all fuzzy and garbled in hoary at default? | 07:04 |
jsgotangco | mine does, it only works on 800x600 should I file a bug for it? the thing works in breezy at 1024 | 07:05 |
Burgundavia | nope | 07:05 |
Burgundavia | I got lucky with my laptop | 07:06 |
jsgotangco | nice..mine is starting to be a PITA | 07:06 |
=== Burgundavia needs to send another email around to clarify things | ||
jsgotangco | (its so light though) | 07:07 |
jsgotangco | Burgundavia, you forgot something on the template | 07:07 |
jsgotangco | Frequency Scaling | 07:07 |
Burgundavia | and lid close | 07:07 |
Burgundavia | email me | 07:07 |
jsgotangco | ok | 07:07 |
jsgotangco | ubuntu-laptop list doesn't seem to be working yet | 07:07 |
Burgundavia | you missed the fun on #ubuntu-laptop | 07:08 |
jsgotangco | what happened? | 07:08 |
jsgotangco | you don't want mjg59 to get pissed | 07:08 |
jsgotangco | haha | 07:09 |
Burgundavia | sad, actually | 07:10 |
jsgotangco | does he have an idea that sarge uses our X? | 07:10 |
Burgundavia | no idea | 07:10 |
jsgotangco | we hae the most beautiful X in the world at the moment | 07:10 |
Burgundavia | the newest | 07:10 |
Burgundavia | the only one even close is Gentoo | 07:10 |
jsgotangco | the clarity in breezy is outstanding | 07:11 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, I also learned somethign I don't like today | 07:11 |
jsgotangco | what is that? | 07:11 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, UI freeze is not the end of all changes to look | 07:12 |
jsgotangco | @%!$^ | 07:12 |
Burgundavia | that is the artwork freeze, which is Sept 29th | 07:12 |
jsgotangco | holy crap what does that make us then | 07:12 |
Burgundavia | jdub and I had a discussion about it | 07:12 |
Burgundavia | we disagreed on what it meant | 07:12 |
jsgotangco | we're going to end up making notes and disclaimers that our frozen docs are not the final ones | 07:12 |
Burgundavia | I looked at the quicktour | 07:13 |
Burgundavia | if the icon set changes (which it might), we will need to reshoot about 1/4 of the stuff | 07:13 |
Burgundavia | anything further is going to suck more | 07:13 |
Burgundavia | I thought you raised this at UDU (not blaming you) | 07:14 |
jsgotangco | I did | 07:14 |
jdub | jsgotangco: Burgundavia is making a big deal about very little | 07:14 |
jsgotangco | it is something that can be workable given our time | 07:14 |
Burgundavia | we will see how it flows | 07:15 |
jsgotangco | even at the start all our docs have disclaimers on such if i remember correctly | 07:15 |
jsgotangco | but a properly written doc have very little use of graphics to make a statement IMO | 07:16 |
jsgotangco | its still the same instructions | 07:16 |
Burgundavia | yes, the strings shouldn't have to change | 07:16 |
Burgundavia | the UI is not to shift | 07:16 |
Burgundavia | so mostly it is just a communications things | 07:17 |
Burgundavia | we need to get the word out to the translators and then get those screenshots back in | 07:17 |
jsgotangco | i'm sure there won't be any radical changes in the UI/Artwork that generally borks our work | 07:17 |
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nickrud | Burgundavia, I couldn't resist having the only aptitude page :) | 07:52 |
Burgundavia | nickrud, was that you? nicely written stuff | 07:53 |
Burgundavia | is it linked from User Documentation? | 07:53 |
jsgotangco | ? | 07:53 |
nickrud | It's from memory, mostly. I lost nearly all my history when I just moved. | 07:54 |
nickrud | I've also been working on the voodoo3 page :) | 07:55 |
Burgundavia | might be nice to have the best practices stuff on UserDocumentation | 07:55 |
Burgundavia | and secondary stuff on a catchall page | 07:55 |
Burgundavia | so we would have 2 links instead of 30 | 07:55 |
Burgundavia | for each section | 07:56 |
nickrud | I have no problem with that; synaptic is gone, I guess, so, what's for the nearly competent like myself :) | 07:56 |
Burgundavia | problem is that we have too many ways to doing it | 07:57 |
Burgundavia | synaptic sucks but gnome-app-install has some nasty corner issues | 07:57 |
Burgundavia | like codecs | 07:57 |
nickrud | I've looked at the faq that just got published; maybe somewhere in that | 07:57 |
nickrud | and I've not used gnome-app-install, so have no comment | 07:58 |
Madpilot | I was wondering about this new app-install thing and stuff like codecs - why wasn't Synaptic just polished instead? | 07:58 |
Burgundavia | because synaptic sucks and is in C | 07:58 |
Burgundavia | python is much faster to code in | 07:58 |
Burgundavia | and synaptic is very powerful | 07:58 |
nickrud | all the search things I look for were in synaptic, but I don't python. | 07:59 |
Burgundavia | g-a-i is a very nice program | 07:59 |
Madpilot | but if stuff like codecs aren't going to be in app-install - because they have no need for a .desktop file - ppl are going to be using Synaptic anyway, or the CLI... | 07:59 |
Burgundavia | I was thinking about that | 07:59 |
Burgundavia | you can create a .desktop file that doesn't add anything to the menu | 08:00 |
Burgundavia | thus add .desktop files to all the codec packages | 08:00 |
nickrud | have to look, I guess, it's breezy :) | 08:00 |
Madpilot | a desktop-less .desktop file? interesting... | 08:00 |
nickrud | g-a-i only does things with a .desktop? | 08:01 |
nickrud | so, l~g~sgnome is still useful :) | 08:01 |
Madpilot | nickrud: that's what I was reading - I don't run Breezy myself | 08:01 |
Burgundavia | g-a-i is for end users | 08:02 |
Burgundavia | our parents and siblings | 08:02 |
Madpilot | end users need codecs, though | 08:02 |
Burgundavia | (excepting my sibling) | 08:02 |
nickrud | and aptitude is what we use to keep those end users happy. | 08:02 |
Burgundavia | yes they do, that is why these corner cases need to be solved | 08:02 |
Burgundavia | g-a-i is far from a finished product | 08:02 |
Madpilot | isn't aptitude a CLI thing? alternate to apt-get? | 08:04 |
Burgundavia | yes | 08:04 |
Madpilot | so... Synaptic is being depreciated in favour of an app (g-a-i) that won't have everything Syn does, and a return to the CLI? seems like a step backward | 08:05 |
Burgundavia | no | 08:05 |
nickrud | not necessarily, | 08:06 |
Burgundavia | synaptic is not going anywhere for breezy | 08:06 |
Burgundavia | I expect to see it disappear from the default instlal for +1 or +2 | 08:06 |
Burgundavia | as g-a-i fills in the holes | 08:06 |
nickrud | so, will etch ever be a basis for ubuntu ;D | 08:06 |
Burgundavia | no | 08:07 |
nickrud | oh | 08:07 |
Burgundavia | ubuntu is based on sid, which is newer than etch | 08:07 |
nickrud | ? | 08:07 |
nickrud | next sid freeze, etch is. | 08:07 |
Burgundavia | sid is unstable, etch is testing (the next stable) | 08:07 |
Burgundavia | packages go from experimental --> sid (unstalbe) --> etch (testing) | 08:08 |
Burgundavia | and then etch gets released | 08:08 |
Burgundavia | and we get a new testing | 08:08 |
Burgundavia | sid is rolling | 08:08 |
nickrud | sid breaks my toys, he's done it before. Breezy is meaner :) | 08:08 |
jsgotangco | we always use sid | 08:08 |
jsgotangco | hmm toshiba has this transparent network config thingy that gets washed away in a white background in windows :) | 08:10 |
Burgundavia | and the stupid custom default control panel that gets launched with the toshiba assist button | 08:10 |
Madpilot | jsgotangco: a triumph of graphical design & UI design! ;) </sarcasm> | 08:11 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, you need to email me about whatever I missed on the laptop page | 08:14 |
nickrud | So, a serious question. I've been looking for an actual place to contribute, and working with docs seems useful | 08:14 |
Madpilot | nickrud: there's always wiki stuff that needs editing! | 08:14 |
rob^ | owwww my butt hurts so much! | 08:14 |
jsgotangco | Burgundavia, you or the list? | 08:15 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, me | 08:15 |
jsgotangco | ok | 08:15 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, I am going to compile a list and send it around | 08:15 |
rob^ | stupid weak desk at work | 08:15 |
jsgotangco | what's the use of the Pause/Break key? | 08:16 |
Burgundavia | for old dos apps | 08:16 |
Burgundavia | the stop the output flow so you could read it | 08:16 |
jsgotangco | you forgot to add if parallel port works | 08:17 |
jsgotangco | Burgundavia, sent | 08:17 |
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Burgundavia | jsgotangco, cheers | 08:17 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, are you still up or is this an autoconnect? | 08:17 |
jsgotangco | i'll move to the M2 | 08:17 |
jsgotangco | i'm tired of playing with windows already | 08:18 |
robitaille | I'm up. I had to reboot from Hoary to Breezy to test something. And once again experiencing multiple gnome-panels crashes.... | 08:18 |
jsgotangco | Madpilot, cheers to your first email :) | 08:18 |
Burgundavia | fun | 08:18 |
Burgundavia | don't think I will shut down my machine tonight | 08:18 |
jsgotangco | has anyone experienced stage 2 hanging at 91% | 08:19 |
Burgundavia | I had to burn 3 discs before I got one that installed | 08:19 |
jsgotangco | did you do integrity check? | 08:20 |
Madpilot | jsgotangco: got that already? cool | 08:20 |
jsgotangco | our list is quite fast | 08:20 |
Burgundavia | ok that was wierd | 08:20 |
Burgundavia | I got the email from jdub replying to the email about Avahi before I got the original email | 08:21 |
jsgotangco | that's really fast | 08:21 |
Madpilot | I've gotten u-doc email out of order as well, actually | 08:21 |
Madpilot | gets very confusing - I barely know what's going on at the best of times! ;) | 08:22 |
Burgundavia | gmail actually threaded that one correctly | 08:22 |
Burgundavia | it is the gnome mail servers, they are wierd right now | 08:22 |
jsgotangco | what gnome list are you in? | 08:22 |
Burgundavia | desktop-devel, nautilus, multimedia, muine | 08:23 |
jsgotangco | gnome-marketing is fun | 08:23 |
Burgundavia | oh and that too | 08:23 |
Burgundavia | and doc and doc-utils | 08:23 |
robitaille | how many lists are you on Burgundavia? Just the ubuntu ones are overwehelming me... | 08:26 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, I just unsubscribed from the bugzilla, that was killing me | 08:27 |
Burgundavia | aside from that, the 3 biggest are inkscape-devel, desktop-devel and ubuntu-devel | 08:27 |
Burgundavia | I am subscribed but don't follow -users | 08:27 |
robitaille | I quickly scanned the bugzilla list on a daily basis; I have been back into doing more bug triage in recent days in both bugzilla and malone. | 08:28 |
Burgundavia | probably 25 | 08:28 |
robitaille | I have nearly stopped follwoing -users and #ubuntu; just too much high-volume, and too much noice. | 08:28 |
jsgotangco | i haven't done anything in malone yet | 08:28 |
robitaille | Malone is getting nicer every day. | 08:29 |
Burgundavia | yes | 08:29 |
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Burgundavia | the other thing I totally neglect is the Canadian loco team. No time for that | 08:29 |
Burgundavia | oh, wallace and gromit film!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/4167392.stm | 08:29 |
jsgotangco | i keep getting confused on the # and British pound key | 08:32 |
Madpilot | just did a significant cleanup of this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptitudeSurvivalGuide - it matches the conventions of BasicCommands now | 08:32 |
Burgundavia | the # is also called a pound on the telephone, just to be confusing | 08:32 |
Burgundavia | Madpilot, looks good | 08:34 |
Madpilot | thanks | 08:34 |
Madpilot | how much "Canadian localization" do we really need, anyway? Perhaps, "Welcome to Ubuntu, eh?" :) | 08:34 |
Burgundavia | loco teams are also marketing teams | 08:35 |
Burgundavia | Madpilot, my crazy inuktitut idea | 08:36 |
jsgotangco | is that your gift to Nunavut | 08:37 |
jsgotangco | heh | 08:37 |
Burgundavia | ya | 08:37 |
Madpilot | right, got it. There's no reason the Inuktitut idea won't work, you just need to convince a couple of governments of that! | 08:38 |
Burgundavia | this is looking sweet --> https://launchpad.net/products/bazaar | 08:38 |
Burgundavia | I understand a lot of legwork has already been done | 08:38 |
jsgotangco | yeah baz rocks | 08:38 |
jsgotangco | till i segfault | 08:38 |
jsgotangco | i must malone it | 08:38 |
Burgundavia | no, the launchpad page | 08:38 |
jsgotangco | ohh | 08:39 |
Burgundavia | but yes, baz rocks | 08:39 |
robitaille | Madpilot: and convince the local people that they need Linux :) | 08:39 |
Burgundavia | give them free computers with edubuntu and inuktitut | 08:39 |
jsgotangco | how about the fonts? | 08:39 |
Burgundavia | every school in Nunavut | 08:39 |
Burgundavia | several exist | 08:39 |
Burgundavia | mandrake has one | 08:39 |
jsgotangco | GPL'ed? | 08:39 |
jsgotangco | even LGPL would do | 08:39 |
Burgundavia | unknown about DFSG-free or not | 08:39 |
robitaille | Burgundavia: yeah...I have been using bazaar-ng for a while at work; works great | 08:40 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, just you? | 08:40 |
jsgotangco | bzr already? | 08:40 |
robitaille | Burgundavia: just me; I use it to track changes in some code of mine | 08:41 |
Burgundavia | cool | 08:41 |
Burgundavia | bzr is going to be baz2 and be ready by April 2006 | 08:41 |
jsgotangco | yeah | 08:42 |
Burgundavia | in time from Breezy+1 | 08:42 |
robitaille | but it's usable now (at least for my needs) | 08:42 |
jsgotangco | baz would be ready in a few weeks | 08:42 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, do you follow daily crack or what is in breezy? | 08:43 |
Burgundavia | vote dammit --> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000007 | 08:43 |
jsgotangco | not really i don't have that much stuff to break in the first place | 08:45 |
jsgotangco | Burgundavia, does your A5 connect to an AP via Gnome? | 08:45 |
Burgundavia | never tried it yet | 08:45 |
Burgundavia | going to try tomorrow | 08:45 |
robitaille | Burgundavia: the current numbers for that vote are probably the real numbers. | 08:45 |
jsgotangco | mine doesn't connect at setup at all | 08:46 |
jsgotangco | it got detected as eth0 | 08:46 |
jsgotangco | do people actually live in nunavut? | 08:46 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, yes | 08:47 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, huh? | 08:47 |
Burgundavia | about 30k --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut | 08:48 |
jsgotangco | jeezz | 08:48 |
jsgotangco | just for the canucks out there, I am seriously thinking of moving to Victoria | 08:49 |
Burgundavia | sweet | 08:49 |
robitaille | Burgundavia: 30% gnome, 50% KDE...sounds about right | 08:49 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, for an online survey, sure | 08:49 |
robitaille | Burgundavia: do you have better numbers? | 08:49 |
Madpilot | jsgotangco: cool | 08:49 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, I don't trust online surveys | 08:50 |
Burgundavia | too easy to stack | 08:50 |
robitaille | jsgotangco: at this rate, forget the Canadian loco team, let's create a Victoria Loco team | 08:50 |
Burgundavia | we already have 3 | 08:50 |
Madpilot | robitaille: only *after* we actually manage to meet in person! ;) | 08:50 |
jsgotangco | hah | 08:50 |
Burgundavia | robitaille, tux magazine is also heavily pro-KDE | 08:51 |
robitaille | yeah yeah...it will happen one day. maybe we should plan a bug night or something | 08:51 |
jsgotangco | yeah tux magazine is so Linspire | 08:51 |
Burgundavia | http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-May/msg00087.html | 08:51 |
robitaille | Burgundavia: numbers I had heard before were 50%-66% KDE | 08:51 |
Madpilot | robitaille: beer, pizza & laptops? (I don't have a laptop, but I've got a good house to host stuff in right now!) | 08:52 |
robitaille | at work we are a KDE/Mandriva shop...I'm probably the only gnome person around | 08:52 |
Burgundavia | http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-August/msg00098.html | 08:52 |
jsgotangco | hmm they haven't thought of cutting you in half yet | 08:52 |
jsgotangco | robitaille, same with my last employer they are very heavy into Qt | 08:53 |
jsgotangco | i felt so alone that I decided not to continue my contract | 08:53 |
jsgotangco | well its not just about it anyways :) | 08:53 |
HrdwrBoB | hehe | 08:53 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, have you found a new job yet? | 08:53 |
robitaille | in our case, it's simply that that sysadmin like Mandrake. (but he has been trying Kubuntu at home this weekend...) | 08:53 |
jsgotangco | no I'm still open at the moment | 08:54 |
robitaille | Madpilot: yeah, sounds good. Has too be after 8pm for me...after kids go to bed :) | 08:54 |
jsgotangco | my birthday is soon hopefully i get a new one | 08:54 |
HrdwrBoB | argh KDE | 08:54 |
Burgundavia | thursday night this week? | 08:55 |
Madpilot | robitaille: I can do that, tend to be a nightowl anyway... and Burgundavia appears to thrive on very little sleep... ;) | 08:55 |
Burgundavia | just need to check my work schedule before I completely commit to that | 08:55 |
jsgotangco | what do you do there? | 08:56 |
Madpilot | cool. I'll even drag the router upstairs so ppl can connect without unplugging my box | 08:56 |
Madpilot | (no wireless here... ) | 08:56 |
Burgundavia | hmm | 08:56 |
Burgundavia | no internet for me then | 08:57 |
Burgundavia | my wireless works in ubuntu, but not my wired | 08:57 |
Burgundavia | strange reversal | 08:57 |
Madpilot | that's exactly the opposite of the standard complaint over on #ubuntu... | 08:58 |
Burgundavia | I got lucky with atheros and unlucky with some new gigabit nic | 08:58 |
robitaille | Madpilot: hopefully my laptop will be in town soon. it should be any days now. | 08:58 |
jsgotangco | mine is just good for Windows | 08:59 |
jsgotangco | nothing works | 08:59 |
jsgotangco | even hoary is horribly borked | 08:59 |
robitaille | jsgotangco: I'm afraid mine will be similar. A google search for my model type turns out very minimal (and unsuccesful) results. At least windows will work will I will in bug reports and play around with it. | 09:01 |
jsgotangco | mine is only good for playing games | 09:02 |
jsgotangco | it has an attitude of not wanting to reboot in Ubuntu | 09:03 |
jsgotangco | so i had to pull out the battery every now and then during an install/reboot | 09:03 |
Burgundavia | hmm, googling for linux tecra a5 gives me nothing useful but \sh's blog | 09:03 |
Burgundavia | and some RH4/5 install stories | 09:04 |
Burgundavia | on other tecras | 09:05 |
jsgotangco | yeah | 09:05 |
jsgotangco | not really that useful | 09:05 |
Burgundavia | http://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nstoshibaPTA50A-02D00D.html | 09:05 |
Burgundavia | sweet | 09:05 |
jsgotangco | i will probably try Fedora on this later and see if I get the same result | 09:07 |
jsgotangco | im not convinced that its an Ubuntu issue on mine | 09:07 |
jsgotangco | hmm maybe i should do it in sarge instead | 09:07 |
Burgundavia | ok this is just sad http://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nslinuxcomp.html | 09:07 |
Burgundavia | see what they rate as excellent | 09:07 |
jsgotangco | Suspend/Resume functionally not working | 09:09 |
jsgotangco | lol | 09:09 |
Madpilot | that's a pretty low definition of "excellent" - ouch | 09:09 |
jsgotangco | i would remove suspend/resume | 09:09 |
HrdwrBoB | http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000004 | 09:09 |
HrdwrBoB | hahahaha | 09:09 |
HrdwrBoB | ase closed on tuxmagazine | 09:10 |
HrdwrBoB | case | 09:10 |
HrdwrBoB | ubuntu isn't even on that list | 09:10 |
Burgundavia | they had a new poll | 09:10 |
Burgundavia | that listed it as Kubuntu/Ubuntu | 09:10 |
Burgundavia | very odd way to do it | 09:10 |
Burgundavia | but they closed that one | 09:10 |
jsgotangco | they are better off being titled as Linspire magazine | 09:10 |
HrdwrBoB | nor is MEPIS | 09:10 |
HrdwrBoB | ? I got to that via their front page | 09:10 |
HrdwrBoB | oh, bizarre | 09:10 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, this page explains why what I got was radically different from what I thought I was getting --> http://www.networkworld.com/weblogs/cool/2005/009222.html | 09:13 |
Burgundavia | there are 2 versions | 09:13 |
jsgotangco | do you have a british keyboard? | 09:14 |
Burgundavia | no | 09:14 |
jsgotangco | arrghh | 09:14 |
Burgundavia | no, 2 very very differnet models | 09:14 |
HrdwrBoB | ahhh | 09:14 |
HrdwrBoB | yeah different | 09:14 |
Burgundavia | under the same name | 09:14 |
jsgotangco | hmmm | 09:14 |
Burgundavia | very very dumb marketing | 09:14 |
jsgotangco | thats stupid | 09:14 |
HrdwrBoB | I bought an X40 today for $AU1050 | 09:14 |
Madpilot | Toshiba got too lazy to invent a second name? | 09:14 |
Burgundavia | I guess so | 09:14 |
jsgotangco | the A5 i saw here wasn't widescreen either | 09:15 |
jsgotangco | HrdwrBoB, looks reasonable | 09:15 |
Burgundavia | they are both the same size I think | 09:15 |
Burgundavia | should probably move my wiki page | 09:15 |
Burgundavia | ok, page moved | 09:19 |
Madpilot | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTitle <-- that's cool | 09:20 |
Burgundavia | already installed it | 09:21 |
Burgundavia | quite nice | 09:21 |
Madpilot | the world needs more good Free fonts | 09:21 |
Burgundavia | indeed | 09:24 |
Burgundavia | the advantage with free is that the body is never getting smaller | 09:24 |
jsgotangco | Burgundavia, your A5 has a US keyboard? | 09:28 |
Burgundavia | no, UK | 09:28 |
Burgundavia | ouch laptop memory is not cheap | 09:33 |
mdke | Burgundavia, afaik not much, the wifi card is different at least. Other than that I have no idea | 10:02 |
jsgotangco | hmmm | 10:02 |
jsgotangco | i wanna cry | 10:02 |
mdke | hey jsgotangco | 10:03 |
jsgotangco | even doing an iwconfig eth0 essid "ap" won't work | 10:03 |
jsgotangco | hi | 10:03 |
jsgotangco | and im still in hoary | 10:03 |
mdke | what's the error? | 10:04 |
jsgotangco | it won't associate with the AP | 10:04 |
mdke | yes, but what error? look in dmesg | 10:05 |
jsgotangco | hmm let me check if i turn off the kill switch | 10:06 |
Burgundavia | mdke, ok. I just discovered that there are at least 5 or 6 versions of the a5 | 10:09 |
mdke | heh | 10:09 |
Burgundavia | at they are completely different | 10:09 |
Burgundavia | processor, video card, wifi card, etc. | 10:10 |
mdke | :( | 10:10 |
mdke | bad naming conventions obviously | 10:10 |
Burgundavia | I am glad I have this version | 10:10 |
Burgundavia | the other has an intel chipset wireless | 10:10 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 10:11 |
mdke | i think mine does | 10:11 |
jsgotangco | maybe that's my problem | 10:11 |
mdke | it is ipw2200 | 10:11 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 10:11 |
jsgotangco | it should work on mine then | 10:11 |
jsgotangco | but it didn't see the AP from the start | 10:11 |
mdke | jsgotangco, have you tried setting the channel manually? | 10:11 |
jsgotangco | i haven't ill compare the setting on the other laptop | 10:11 |
jsgotangco | i did try to force essid and access point on iwconfig | 10:12 |
mdke | try the channel too | 10:12 |
jsgotangco | wireless should work even if it was named eth0? | 10:13 |
Burgundavia | yes | 10:13 |
Burgundavia | only the madwifi stuff sets it as ath and if you wired isn't working, then it will take the first slot | 10:14 |
jsgotangco | my wired is eth1 | 10:14 |
Burgundavia | there was some issues with that | 10:14 |
Burgundavia | interfaces switching back and forth with names | 10:14 |
Burgundavia | might be resolved now | 10:15 |
jsgotangco | shouldn't forcing the essid work? | 10:16 |
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jsgotangco | how do i force it from "unassociated" to IEEE 802.11b? | 10:19 |
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mdke | you can't force it to associate ;) | 10:21 |
jsgotangco | heh | 10:21 |
jsgotangco | it doesn't work | 10:21 |
mdke | jsgotangco, has it ever worked? | 10:21 |
jsgotangco | no | 10:21 |
jsgotangco | although its detected | 10:21 |
mdke | because on hoary, mine only worked when I switched it on, if I took it down again, it would never go back up | 10:21 |
jsgotangco | does yours have a kill switch? | 10:21 |
mdke | it has a hotkey for it | 10:22 |
jsgotangco | dmesg says that i have to turn off the kill switch | 10:22 |
mdke | hmm | 10:22 |
mdke | if I were you i'd install breezy :) | 10:22 |
jsgotangco | breezy is PITA more | 10:23 |
mdke | oh dear | 10:23 |
jsgotangco | stage 2 doesn't even finish | 10:23 |
mdke | bad cd? | 10:23 |
jsgotangco | so i have a messed up GDM | 10:23 |
jsgotangco | no | 10:23 |
jsgotangco | i've burned 5 of them and tested on another machine | 10:23 |
mdke | worked ok here | 10:23 |
mdke | damn | 10:23 |
jsgotangco | reboot doesn't work on breezy | 10:23 |
jsgotangco | hmm dmesg says the kill switch is on, but its already turned off | 10:24 |
jsgotangco | my unit has a lot of windows niceties | 10:24 |
Burgundavia | hmm, the totem-moz plugin die for anybody else? | 10:25 |
jsgotangco | lol the hoary setup wants the kill switch to be turned on | 10:29 |
mdke | do either of you guys know the file I have to edit to enable suspend to ram? | 10:30 |
Burgundavia | hmm, epiphany still sucks | 10:30 |
Burgundavia | too bad | 10:30 |
jsgotangco | hmm i have an Intel Pro/Wireless 2200BG | 10:30 |
jsgotangco | this should work *groan* | 10:30 |
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nickrud | I was just about to go to bed, but: epiphany sucks? | 11:04 |
Burgundavia | I find it so | 11:05 |
Burgundavia | needs some polish | 11:05 |
nickrud | ah, we'll have to have this talk later :) | 11:05 |
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Burgundavia | I would love to use, but not yet | 11:06 |
Burgundavia | they are making great strides | 11:06 |
nickrud | just give me a plugin that 'saves ths group of tabs as a a category', and I'll be happy | 11:06 |
Madpilot | http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28038&PHPSESSID=1e6669a95537e2c58495cd7fee13caab <-- pretty cool | 11:06 |
Madpilot | nickrud: you mean "save sessions"? Opera does that... | 11:07 |
Burgundavia | epip also does it | 11:07 |
Madpilot | doesn't Firefox? | 11:07 |
Burgundavia | no | 11:07 |
nickrud | yeah, but I do like the way epiphany searches the bookmarks and history as you type | 11:07 |
Burgundavia | that is cool | 11:08 |
nickrud | but the single hierarchy in the bookmark editor kinda sucks | 11:09 |
Madpilot | Epiph doesn't allow folders in the bookmark file? | 11:09 |
nickrud | anyway, my workday starts about 3 hours from now. | 11:10 |
nickrud | Madpilot, no, just one level of aggregation. | 11:10 |
Madpilot | sleep might be a good idea | 11:10 |
nickrud | And, it's gonna be a busy day. good night :) | 11:10 |
Madpilot | only one level? yikes. I go three layers deep in parts of my Opera bkmrk file... | 11:10 |
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Madpilot | g'night, all | 11:58 |
rob^ | night | 11:58 |
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carthik | hello - a quick question - can someone give me an estimate of the number of man hours a document like the adminguide will take to be created? | 08:54 |
Madpilot | "more than you think"? | 08:55 |
Madpilot | ;) | 08:55 |
Burgundavia | 50 or 60? | 08:56 |
Burgundavia | the quicktour has already taken me around 15 | 08:56 |
carthik | 50 or 60 hours for the whole admin guide? | 08:57 |
carthik | I am trying to estimate how much time would be required to write a guide myself | 08:57 |
carthik | not related to ubuntu - for another OS project... | 08:57 |
Burgundavia | yes | 08:58 |
Burgundavia | to write test and edit, probably around that | 08:58 |
carthik | thanks guys | 09:00 |
Burgundavia | np | 09:00 |
Madpilot | "more than you think" sounds about right, then... | 09:01 |
Burgundavia | yes, lots more than you think | 09:01 |
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