/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/08/27/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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Burgundaviahighvoltage, jerome is knee-deep in edubuntu stuff02:30
Burgundaviahighvoltage, rob^ and mgalvin are working on the faqguide02:31
Burgundaviahighvoltage, and I will be working on the quicktour tomorrow02:31
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Burgundaviamdke, is there much difference between the two T43's04:43
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Burgundaviajdub, hey06:11
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Madpilothi all06:13
Madpilotrob^: you around?06:13
Burgundaviajdub, I specifically asked for a UI freeze for us because the theme changed at the last minute in Hoary06:13
jdubthe engine won't be changing06:14
Burgundaviabut the look might06:14
Burgundaviaall I care about is for screenshots06:14
jdubin large part, it won't06:14
jdubui freeze doesn't cover artwork06:14
Burgundaviaoh06:14
jdubbut in general, the basic building blocks are set06:14
Burgundaviathat was my understanding06:14
Burgundavia29th probably wont give us enough time to take all the screenshots that might have changed for all translations06:15
BurgundaviaI thought we had a month for the translators to do that06:15
jdubthe engine won't change06:16
Burgundaviabut the look will06:16
jdubthat doesn't mean anything06:16
Burgundaviayes it does06:16
jdubdude06:16
jdubthe gtk theme won't change06:16
jdubthe metacity theme may change06:16
jdub(but i doubt it)06:17
Burgundaviajdub, I hear you. in my screenshooters hat, I am saying, I don't care about what actaully changes06:17
jdubmost of it will be nailed down before the 29th06:17
BurgundaviaI am merely saying that that the 29th is probably too late for us06:17
jdubyes, you do care about what actually changes06:17
jdubbecause the majority of screenshots you can take without caring06:17
Burgundaviasorry, bad wording06:17
jdubthere are very few screenshots that should include:06:18
jdub- background06:18
jdub- application / file manager icons06:18
jdub- splash screen (none, really)06:18
jdub- usplash (none, really)06:18
jdubetc.06:18
Burgundaviaouch06:18
BurgundaviaI totally misunderstood UI freeze06:19
BurgundaviaI thought it meant that the UI was not going to change, period06:19
Burgundaviathe look and the code was set06:19
jdubno06:19
jdubthe UI will not change06:19
jdubthe artwork may06:19
Burgundaviayes, I thought UI included both06:19
jdubbut if you listen, you'll understand that the majority of screenshot subjects *won't* change06:19
Burgundaviasomeone still needs to sort through and figure out06:20
Burgundaviajdub, is humility going to be default?06:20
jdubundecided06:21
Madpilotdon't you mean "Human" for a theme?06:21
Madpilotor has that name changed too?06:21
jdubMadpilot: it will be called human, yes06:21
Burgundaviajdub, to be honest, I am deeply scared that we are going to repeat the Hoary mess. The theme changed at the last minute at made all of our screenshots look terrible06:21
Burgundaviahence why we asked for  UI freeze06:21
jdubif we switch to the SVG theme as late as artwork freeze date, then there will only be very few screenshots you need to redo06:21
Burgundaviayes, but we have to find them first06:22
jdubit's not hard, dude06:22
jdubif it's a full screen shot, or involves the file manager or panel menus, that'll change06:22
Burgundaviagah06:23
BurgundaviaI just think we need a bit more certainty in this06:23
jdubthere should be very few of those in ubuntu documentation06:23
jdubcertainty:06:23
Burgundaviawe have 3 docs on the plan for release:06:23
jdubthe widget theme will not change from now06:23
Burgundaviafaqguide, quicktour, and edubuntu cookbook06:24
jdubthe metacity theme is wildly unlikely to change from now06:24
Burgundaviajdub, I understand that the widget set will not change06:24
BurgundaviaI totally understand all the various parts, etc.06:24
Burgundaviawhat I am saying is that the screenshot doesn't care what changes, if *one* thing in a screenshot changes, we need to reshot it06:24
Burgundaviaand so do all the translators06:25
jdubthen i don't think you really understand at all06:25
jdubthe two artwork items that will affect the vast majority of screenshots are the gtk+ and metacity themes06:25
Burgundaviayes06:25
jdubthose are enormously unlikely to change06:25
jdubthus, most of your screenshots, from UI freeze, will not have to be reshot06:25
Burgundaviaa metacity theme change like we had in Hoary would be a total disaster06:26
jdubthe metacity theme didn't change in hoary06:26
jdubthe gtk+ theme did06:26
Burgundaviaok06:26
jdubbut complaining about what happened in hoary is irrelevant06:26
jdubas above, the only one that may change is the metacity theme, and even that is vastly unlikely06:27
BurgundaviaI realize that06:27
jdubfrom that, we have:06:27
jdub- possible icon theme change06:27
jdub- definite background change06:27
jdubboth of which impact only a small number of screenshots06:27
Burgundaviajdub, I accept your reassurance but will reserve judgement until I see the actual changes06:28
jdubperhaps it would be wise to take the above on board and look at which screenshots will be effected06:29
BurgundaviaI will parse through the faqguide tomorrow06:29
BurgundaviaI also plan to write most of the quicktour tomorrow06:30
jdubif any involve panel menus or are full screen shots unnecessarily, they can be zapped06:30
Burgundaviaa quick parse of the quicktour as it exists shows that about 1/4 would have to replaced with an icon theme change06:32
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Burgundaviamorning jsgotangco 06:55
jsgotangcohi!06:55
BurgundaviaI have a free day tomorrow to actually write!06:56
jsgotangcolol how is your new job?06:56
Burgundaviaquicktour should be mostly done by tomorrow this time06:56
Burgundaviatiring but still interesting06:56
jsgotangcoi'm sorry if i haven't devoted that much time for the quick tour06:56
jsgotangcoi am trying to divide my time between commits and real life06:57
Burgundavianp06:57
BurgundaviaI had no free time last week either06:57
Burgundaviaonly able to install Colony 3 last night06:57
jsgotangcoi was trying to do a small article similar to the gnome preview for breezy06:57
jsgotangcomy M2 doesn't like Ubuntu one bit06:58
Burgundaviaouch06:58
Burgundaviamine even hibernates now!06:58
jsgotangcoeither that or it just dislikes X.org06:58
jsgotangcomine does too06:58
jsgotangcoeven brightness works06:58
jsgotangcomost of the function keys are useless though06:58
Burgundaviatosh seesm to have a bunch crazy 3rd party utils06:59
Burgundaviamost of them are crap06:59
jsgotangcoX still has a lot of issues from Colony 3, even the scroll wheel of a usb mouse doesnt work06:59
Burgundaviamy docking station is mostly useless06:59
Burgundaviapower works through it but not much else07:00
jsgotangcowow you have a doc?07:00
jsgotangcoi must admit though, this M2 beside me is really nice for a windows laptop07:00
BurgundaviaI even have atheros inside07:01
Burgundaviaso I can get my wireless working easily07:01
jsgotangcojeezz how big is that machine07:01
Burgundavia4.9 pounds07:01
Burgundavia15" screen07:01
jsgotangcoim not sure what mine uses but wireless works out of the box07:01
Burgundaviathink you have atheros as well07:01
jsgotangcowidescreen?07:01
Burgundaviayes, 1280x76807:02
jsgotangcocrap07:02
jsgotangcothat's a multimedia hound07:02
Burgundaviait was even detected correctly in Hoary and Breezy07:02
Burgundaviaand sound was as well07:03
jsgotangcodo you have a good sound system or a generic one?07:03
jsgotangcomine is basically a business model07:03
Burgundaviabasic, mine is also a business model07:04
jsgotangcodid you experience having your screen all fuzzy and garbled in hoary at default?07:04
jsgotangcomine does, it only works on 800x600 should I file a bug for it? the thing works in breezy at 102407:05
Burgundavianope07:05
BurgundaviaI got lucky with my laptop07:06
jsgotangconice..mine is starting to be a PITA07:06
=== Burgundavia needs to send another email around to clarify things
jsgotangco(its so light though)07:07
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, you forgot something on the template07:07
jsgotangcoFrequency Scaling07:07
Burgundaviaand lid close07:07
Burgundaviaemail me07:07
jsgotangcook07:07
jsgotangcoubuntu-laptop list doesn't seem to be working yet07:07
Burgundaviayou missed the fun on #ubuntu-laptop07:08
jsgotangcowhat happened?07:08
jsgotangcoyou don't want mjg59 to get pissed07:08
jsgotangcohaha07:09
Burgundaviasad, actually07:10
jsgotangcodoes he have an idea that sarge uses our X?07:10
Burgundaviano idea07:10
jsgotangcowe hae the most beautiful X in the world at the moment07:10
Burgundaviathe newest07:10
Burgundaviathe only one even close is Gentoo07:10
jsgotangcothe clarity in breezy is outstanding07:11
Burgundaviajsgotangco, I also learned somethign I don't like today07:11
jsgotangcowhat is that?07:11
Burgundaviajsgotangco, UI freeze is not the end of all changes to look07:12
jsgotangco@%!$^07:12
Burgundaviathat is the artwork freeze, which is Sept 29th07:12
jsgotangcoholy crap what does that make us then07:12
Burgundaviajdub and I had a discussion about it07:12
Burgundaviawe disagreed on what it meant07:12
jsgotangcowe're going to end up making notes and disclaimers that our frozen docs are not the final ones07:12
BurgundaviaI looked at the quicktour07:13
Burgundaviaif the icon set changes (which it might), we will need to reshoot about 1/4 of the stuff07:13
Burgundaviaanything further is going to suck more07:13
BurgundaviaI thought you raised this at UDU (not blaming you)07:14
jsgotangcoI did07:14
jdubjsgotangco: Burgundavia is making a big deal about very little07:14
jsgotangcoit is something that can be workable given our time07:14
Burgundaviawe will see how it flows07:15
jsgotangcoeven at the start all our docs have disclaimers on such if i remember correctly07:15
jsgotangcobut a properly written doc have very little use of graphics to make a statement IMO07:16
jsgotangcoits still the same instructions07:16
Burgundaviayes, the strings shouldn't have to change07:16
Burgundaviathe UI is not to shift07:16
Burgundaviaso mostly it is just a communications things07:17
Burgundaviawe need to get the word out to the translators and then get those screenshots back in07:17
jsgotangcoi'm sure there won't be any radical changes in the UI/Artwork that generally borks our work07:17
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nickrudBurgundavia, I couldn't resist having the only aptitude page :)07:52
Burgundavianickrud, was that you? nicely written stuff07:53
Burgundaviais it linked from User Documentation?07:53
jsgotangco?07:53
nickrudIt's from memory, mostly. I lost nearly all my history when I just moved.07:54
nickrudI've also been working on the voodoo3 page :)07:55
Burgundaviamight be nice to have the best practices stuff on UserDocumentation07:55
Burgundaviaand secondary stuff on a catchall page07:55
Burgundaviaso we would have 2 links instead of 3007:55
Burgundaviafor each section07:56
nickrudI have no problem with that; synaptic is gone, I guess, so, what's for the nearly competent like myself :)07:56
Burgundaviaproblem is that we have too many ways to doing it07:57
Burgundaviasynaptic sucks but gnome-app-install has some nasty corner issues07:57
Burgundavialike codecs07:57
nickrudI've looked at the faq that just got published; maybe somewhere in that07:57
nickrudand I've not used gnome-app-install, so have no comment07:58
MadpilotI was wondering about this new app-install thing and stuff like codecs - why wasn't Synaptic just polished instead?07:58
Burgundaviabecause synaptic sucks and is in C07:58
Burgundaviapython is much faster to code in07:58
Burgundaviaand synaptic is very powerful07:58
nickrudall the search things I look for were in synaptic, but I don't python.07:59
Burgundaviag-a-i is a very nice program07:59
Madpilotbut if stuff like codecs aren't going to be in app-install - because they have no need for a .desktop file - ppl are going to be using Synaptic anyway, or the CLI...07:59
BurgundaviaI was thinking about that07:59
Burgundaviayou can create a .desktop file that doesn't add anything to the menu08:00
Burgundaviathus add .desktop files to all the codec packages08:00
nickrudhave to look, I guess, it's breezy :)08:00
Madpilota desktop-less .desktop file? interesting...08:00
nickrudg-a-i only does things with a .desktop?08:01
nickrudso, l~g~sgnome is still useful :)08:01
Madpilotnickrud: that's what I was reading - I don't run Breezy myself08:01
Burgundaviag-a-i is for end users08:02
Burgundaviaour parents and siblings08:02
Madpilotend users need codecs, though08:02
Burgundavia(excepting my sibling)08:02
nickrudand aptitude is what we use to keep those end users happy.08:02
Burgundaviayes they do, that is why these corner cases need to be solved08:02
Burgundaviag-a-i is far from a finished product08:02
Madpilotisn't aptitude a CLI thing? alternate to apt-get?08:04
Burgundaviayes08:04
Madpilotso... Synaptic is being depreciated in favour of an app (g-a-i) that won't have everything Syn does, and a return to the CLI? seems like a step backward08:05
Burgundaviano08:05
nickrudnot necessarily,08:06
Burgundaviasynaptic is not going anywhere for breezy08:06
BurgundaviaI expect to see it disappear from the default instlal for +1 or +208:06
Burgundaviaas g-a-i fills in the holes08:06
nickrudso, will etch ever be a basis for ubuntu ;D08:06
Burgundaviano08:07
nickrudoh08:07
Burgundaviaubuntu is based on sid, which is newer than etch08:07
nickrud?08:07
nickrudnext sid freeze, etch is.08:07
Burgundaviasid is unstable, etch is testing (the next stable)08:07
Burgundaviapackages go from experimental --> sid (unstalbe) --> etch (testing)08:08
Burgundaviaand then etch gets released08:08
Burgundaviaand we get a new testing08:08
Burgundaviasid is rolling08:08
nickrudsid breaks my toys, he's done it before. Breezy is meaner :)08:08
jsgotangcowe always use sid08:08
jsgotangcohmm toshiba has this transparent network config thingy that gets washed away in a white background in windows :)08:10
Burgundaviaand the stupid custom default control panel that gets launched with the toshiba assist button08:10
Madpilotjsgotangco: a triumph of graphical design & UI design! ;)  </sarcasm>08:11
Burgundaviajsgotangco, you need to email me about whatever I missed on the laptop page08:14
nickrudSo, a serious question. I've been looking for an actual place to contribute, and working with docs seems useful08:14
Madpilotnickrud: there's always wiki stuff that needs editing!08:14
rob^owwww my butt hurts so much!08:14
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, you or the list?08:15
Burgundaviajsgotangco, me08:15
jsgotangcook08:15
Burgundaviajsgotangco, I am going to compile a list and send it around08:15
rob^stupid weak desk at work08:15
jsgotangcowhat's the use of the Pause/Break key?08:16
Burgundaviafor old dos apps08:16
Burgundaviathe stop the output flow so you could read it08:16
jsgotangcoyou forgot to add if parallel port works08:17
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, sent08:17
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Burgundaviajsgotangco, cheers08:17
Burgundaviarobitaille, are you still up or is this an autoconnect?08:17
jsgotangcoi'll move to the M208:17
jsgotangcoi'm tired of playing with windows already08:18
robitailleI'm up.  I had to reboot from Hoary to Breezy to test something. And once again experiencing multiple gnome-panels crashes....08:18
jsgotangcoMadpilot, cheers to your first email :)08:18
Burgundaviafun08:18
Burgundaviadon't think I will shut down my machine tonight08:18
jsgotangcohas anyone experienced stage 2 hanging at 91%08:19
BurgundaviaI had to burn 3 discs before I got one that installed08:19
jsgotangcodid you do integrity check?08:20
Madpilotjsgotangco: got that already? cool08:20
jsgotangcoour list is quite fast08:20
Burgundaviaok that was wierd08:20
BurgundaviaI got the email from jdub replying to the email about Avahi before I got the original email08:21
jsgotangcothat's really fast08:21
MadpilotI've gotten u-doc email out of order as well, actually08:21
Madpilotgets very confusing - I barely know what's going on at the best of times! ;)08:22
Burgundaviagmail actually threaded that one correctly08:22
Burgundaviait is the gnome mail servers, they are wierd right now08:22
jsgotangcowhat gnome list are you in?08:22
Burgundaviadesktop-devel, nautilus, multimedia, muine08:23
jsgotangcognome-marketing is fun08:23
Burgundaviaoh and that too08:23
Burgundaviaand doc and doc-utils08:23
robitaillehow many lists are you on Burgundavia?  Just the ubuntu ones are overwehelming me...08:26
Burgundaviarobitaille, I just unsubscribed from the bugzilla, that was killing me08:27
Burgundaviaaside from that, the 3 biggest are inkscape-devel, desktop-devel and ubuntu-devel08:27
BurgundaviaI am subscribed but don't follow -users08:27
robitailleI quickly scanned the bugzilla list on a daily basis;  I have been back into doing more bug triage in recent days in both bugzilla and malone.08:28
Burgundaviaprobably 2508:28
robitailleI have nearly stopped follwoing -users and #ubuntu; just too much high-volume, and too much noice.08:28
jsgotangcoi haven't done anything in malone yet08:28
robitailleMalone is getting nicer every day.08:29
Burgundaviayes08:29
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Burgundaviathe other thing I totally neglect is the Canadian loco team. No time for that08:29
Burgundaviaoh, wallace and gromit film!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/4167392.stm08:29
jsgotangcoi keep getting confused on the # and British pound key08:32
Madpilotjust did a significant cleanup of this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptitudeSurvivalGuide - it matches the conventions of BasicCommands now08:32
Burgundaviathe # is also called a pound on the telephone, just to be confusing08:32
BurgundaviaMadpilot,  looks good08:34
Madpilotthanks08:34
Madpilothow much "Canadian localization" do we really need, anyway? Perhaps, "Welcome to Ubuntu, eh?" :)08:34
Burgundavialoco teams are also marketing teams08:35
BurgundaviaMadpilot, my crazy inuktitut idea08:36
jsgotangcois that your gift to Nunavut08:37
jsgotangcoheh08:37
Burgundaviaya08:37
Madpilotright, got it. There's no reason the Inuktitut idea won't work, you just need to convince a couple of governments of that!08:38
Burgundaviathis is looking sweet --> https://launchpad.net/products/bazaar08:38
BurgundaviaI understand a lot of legwork has already been done08:38
jsgotangcoyeah baz rocks08:38
jsgotangcotill i segfault08:38
jsgotangcoi must malone it08:38
Burgundaviano, the launchpad page08:38
jsgotangcoohh08:39
Burgundaviabut yes, baz rocks08:39
robitailleMadpilot: and convince the local people that they need Linux :)08:39
Burgundaviagive them free computers with edubuntu and inuktitut08:39
jsgotangcohow about the fonts?08:39
Burgundaviaevery school in Nunavut08:39
Burgundaviaseveral exist08:39
Burgundaviamandrake has one08:39
jsgotangcoGPL'ed?08:39
jsgotangcoeven LGPL would do08:39
Burgundaviaunknown about DFSG-free or not08:39
robitailleBurgundavia:  yeah...I have been using bazaar-ng for a while at work; works great08:40
Burgundaviarobitaille, just you?08:40
jsgotangcobzr already?08:40
robitailleBurgundavia:  just me;  I use it to track changes in some code of mine08:41
Burgundaviacool08:41
Burgundaviabzr is going to be baz2 and be ready by April 200608:41
jsgotangcoyeah08:42
Burgundaviain time from Breezy+108:42
robitaillebut it's usable now (at least for my needs)08:42
jsgotangcobaz would be ready in a few weeks08:42
Burgundaviajsgotangco, do you follow daily crack or what is in breezy?08:43
Burgundaviavote dammit --> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/100000708:43
jsgotangconot really i don't have that much stuff to break in the first place08:45
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, does your A5 connect to an AP via Gnome?08:45
Burgundavianever tried it yet08:45
Burgundaviagoing to try tomorrow08:45
robitailleBurgundavia:  the current numbers for that vote are probably the real numbers.08:45
jsgotangcomine doesn't connect at setup at all08:46
jsgotangcoit got detected as eth008:46
jsgotangcodo people actually live in nunavut?08:46
Burgundaviajsgotangco, yes08:47
Burgundaviarobitaille, huh?08:47
Burgundaviaabout 30k --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut08:48
jsgotangcojeezz08:48
jsgotangcojust for the canucks out there, I am seriously thinking of moving to Victoria08:49
Burgundaviasweet08:49
robitailleBurgundavia:  30% gnome, 50% KDE...sounds about right08:49
Burgundaviarobitaille, for an online survey, sure08:49
robitailleBurgundavia:  do you have better numbers?08:49
Madpilotjsgotangco: cool08:49
Burgundaviarobitaille, I don't trust online surveys08:50
Burgundaviatoo easy to stack08:50
robitaillejsgotangco:  at this rate, forget the Canadian loco team, let's create a Victoria Loco team08:50
Burgundaviawe already have 308:50
Madpilotrobitaille: only *after* we actually manage to meet in person! ;)08:50
jsgotangcohah08:50
Burgundaviarobitaille, tux magazine is also heavily pro-KDE08:51
robitailleyeah yeah...it will happen one day.  maybe we should plan a bug night or something08:51
jsgotangcoyeah tux magazine is so Linspire08:51
Burgundaviahttp://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-May/msg00087.html08:51
robitailleBurgundavia:  numbers I had heard before were 50%-66% KDE08:51
Madpilotrobitaille: beer, pizza & laptops? (I don't have a laptop, but I've got a good house to host stuff in right now!)08:52
robitailleat work we are a KDE/Mandriva shop...I'm probably the only gnome person around08:52
Burgundaviahttp://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-August/msg00098.html08:52
jsgotangcohmm they haven't thought of cutting you in half yet08:52
jsgotangcorobitaille, same with my last employer they are very heavy into Qt08:53
jsgotangcoi felt so alone that I decided not to continue my contract08:53
jsgotangcowell its not just about it anyways :)08:53
HrdwrBoBhehe08:53
Burgundaviajsgotangco, have you found a new job yet?08:53
robitaillein our case, it's simply that that sysadmin like Mandrake.  (but he has been trying Kubuntu at home this weekend...)08:53
jsgotangcono I'm still open at the moment08:54
robitailleMadpilot:  yeah, sounds good. Has too be after 8pm for me...after kids go to bed :)08:54
jsgotangcomy birthday is soon hopefully i get a new one08:54
HrdwrBoBargh KDE08:54
Burgundaviathursday night this week?08:55
Madpilotrobitaille: I can do that, tend to be a nightowl anyway... and Burgundavia appears to thrive on very little sleep... ;)08:55
Burgundaviajust need to check my work schedule before I completely commit to that08:55
jsgotangcowhat do you do there?08:56
Madpilotcool. I'll even drag the router upstairs so ppl can connect without unplugging my box08:56
Madpilot(no wireless here... )08:56
Burgundaviahmm08:56
Burgundaviano internet for me then08:57
Burgundaviamy wireless works in ubuntu, but not my wired08:57
Burgundaviastrange reversal08:57
Madpilotthat's exactly the opposite of the standard complaint over on #ubuntu...08:58
BurgundaviaI got lucky with atheros and unlucky with some new gigabit nic08:58
robitailleMadpilot: hopefully  my laptop will be in town soon.  it should be any days now.08:58
jsgotangcomine is just good for Windows08:59
jsgotangconothing works 08:59
jsgotangcoeven hoary is horribly borked08:59
robitaillejsgotangco:  I'm afraid mine will be similar.  A google search for my model type turns out very minimal (and unsuccesful) results.  At least windows will work will I will in bug reports and play around with it.09:01
jsgotangcomine is only good for playing games09:02
jsgotangcoit has an attitude of not wanting to reboot in Ubuntu09:03
jsgotangcoso i had to pull out the battery every now and then during an install/reboot09:03
Burgundaviahmm, googling for linux tecra a5 gives me nothing useful but \sh's blog09:03
Burgundaviaand some RH4/5 install stories09:04
Burgundaviaon other tecras09:05
jsgotangcoyeah09:05
jsgotangconot really that useful09:05
Burgundaviahttp://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nstoshibaPTA50A-02D00D.html09:05
Burgundaviasweet09:05
jsgotangcoi will probably try Fedora on this later and see if I get the same result09:07
jsgotangcoim not convinced that its an Ubuntu issue on mine09:07
jsgotangcohmm maybe i should do it in sarge instead09:07
Burgundaviaok this is just sad http://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nslinuxcomp.html09:07
Burgundaviasee what they rate as excellent09:07
jsgotangcoSuspend/Resume functionally not working09:09
jsgotangcolol09:09
Madpilotthat's a pretty low definition of "excellent" - ouch09:09
jsgotangcoi would remove suspend/resume09:09
HrdwrBoBhttp://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/100000409:09
HrdwrBoBhahahaha09:09
HrdwrBoBase closed on tuxmagazine09:10
HrdwrBoBcase09:10
HrdwrBoBubuntu isn't even on that list09:10
Burgundaviathey had a new poll09:10
Burgundaviathat listed it as Kubuntu/Ubuntu09:10
Burgundaviavery odd way to do it09:10
Burgundaviabut they closed that one09:10
jsgotangcothey are better off being titled as Linspire magazine09:10
HrdwrBoBnor is MEPIS09:10
HrdwrBoB? I got to that via their front page09:10
HrdwrBoBoh, bizarre09:10
Burgundaviajsgotangco, this page explains why what I got was radically different from what I thought I was getting --> http://www.networkworld.com/weblogs/cool/2005/009222.html09:13
Burgundaviathere are 2 versions09:13
jsgotangcodo you have a british keyboard?09:14
Burgundaviano09:14
jsgotangcoarrghh09:14
Burgundaviano, 2 very very differnet models09:14
HrdwrBoBahhh09:14
HrdwrBoByeah different09:14
Burgundaviaunder the same name09:14
jsgotangcohmmm09:14
Burgundaviavery very dumb marketing09:14
jsgotangcothats stupid09:14
HrdwrBoBI bought an X40 today for $AU105009:14
MadpilotToshiba got too lazy to invent a second name?09:14
BurgundaviaI guess so09:14
jsgotangcothe A5 i saw here wasn't widescreen either09:15
jsgotangcoHrdwrBoB, looks reasonable09:15
Burgundaviathey are both the same size I think09:15
Burgundaviashould probably move my wiki page09:15
Burgundaviaok, page moved09:19
Madpilothttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTitle  <-- that's cool09:20
Burgundaviaalready installed it09:21
Burgundaviaquite nice09:21
Madpilotthe world needs more good Free fonts09:21
Burgundaviaindeed09:24
Burgundaviathe advantage with free is that the body is never getting smaller09:24
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, your A5 has a US  keyboard?09:28
Burgundaviano, UK09:28
Burgundaviaouch laptop memory is not cheap09:33
mdkeBurgundavia, afaik not much, the wifi card is different at least. Other than that I have no idea10:02
jsgotangcohmmm10:02
jsgotangcoi wanna cry10:02
mdkehey jsgotangco 10:03
jsgotangcoeven doing an iwconfig eth0 essid "ap" won't work10:03
jsgotangcohi10:03
jsgotangcoand im still in hoary10:03
mdkewhat's the error?10:04
jsgotangcoit won't associate with the AP10:04
mdkeyes, but what error? look in dmesg10:05
jsgotangcohmm let me check if i turn off the kill switch10:06
Burgundaviamdke, ok. I just discovered that there are at least 5 or 6 versions of the a510:09
mdkeheh10:09
Burgundaviaat they are completely different10:09
Burgundaviaprocessor, video card, wifi card, etc.10:10
mdke:(10:10
mdkebad naming conventions obviously10:10
BurgundaviaI am glad I have this version10:10
Burgundaviathe other has an intel chipset wireless10:10
jsgotangcohmm10:11
mdkei think mine does10:11
jsgotangcomaybe that's my problem10:11
mdkeit is ipw220010:11
jsgotangcohmm10:11
jsgotangcoit should work on mine then10:11
jsgotangcobut it didn't see the AP from the start10:11
mdkejsgotangco, have you tried setting the channel manually?10:11
jsgotangcoi haven't ill compare the setting on the other laptop10:11
jsgotangcoi did try to force essid and access point on iwconfig10:12
mdketry the channel too10:12
jsgotangcowireless should work even if it was named eth0?10:13
Burgundaviayes10:13
Burgundaviaonly the madwifi stuff sets it as ath and if you wired isn't working, then it will take the first slot10:14
jsgotangcomy wired is eth110:14
Burgundaviathere was some issues with that10:14
Burgundaviainterfaces switching back and forth with names10:14
Burgundaviamight be resolved now10:15
jsgotangcoshouldn't forcing the essid work?10:16
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jsgotangcohow do i force it from "unassociated" to IEEE 802.11b?10:19
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mdkeyou can't force it to associate ;)10:21
jsgotangcoheh10:21
jsgotangcoit doesn't work10:21
mdkejsgotangco, has it ever worked?10:21
jsgotangcono10:21
jsgotangcoalthough its detected10:21
mdkebecause on hoary, mine only worked when I switched it on, if I took it down again, it would never go back up10:21
jsgotangcodoes yours have a kill switch?10:21
mdkeit has a hotkey for it10:22
jsgotangcodmesg says that i have to turn off the kill switch10:22
mdkehmm10:22
mdkeif I were you i'd install breezy :)10:22
jsgotangcobreezy is PITA more10:23
mdkeoh dear10:23
jsgotangcostage 2 doesn't even finish10:23
mdkebad cd?10:23
jsgotangcoso i have a messed up GDM10:23
jsgotangcono10:23
jsgotangcoi've burned 5 of them and tested on another machine10:23
mdkeworked ok here10:23
mdkedamn10:23
jsgotangcoreboot doesn't work on breezy10:23
jsgotangcohmm dmesg says the kill switch is on, but its already turned off10:24
jsgotangcomy unit has a lot of windows niceties10:24
Burgundaviahmm, the totem-moz plugin die for anybody else?10:25
jsgotangcolol the hoary setup wants the kill switch to be turned on10:29
mdkedo either of you guys know the file I have to edit to enable suspend to ram?10:30
Burgundaviahmm, epiphany still sucks10:30
Burgundaviatoo bad10:30
jsgotangcohmm i have an Intel Pro/Wireless 2200BG10:30
jsgotangcothis should work *groan*10:30
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nickrudI was just about to go to bed, but: epiphany sucks?11:04
BurgundaviaI find it so11:05
Burgundavianeeds some polish11:05
nickrudah, we'll have to have this talk later :)11:05
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BurgundaviaI would love to use, but not yet11:06
Burgundaviathey are making great strides11:06
nickrudjust give me a plugin that 'saves ths group of tabs as a a category', and I'll be happy11:06
Madpilothttp://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28038&PHPSESSID=1e6669a95537e2c58495cd7fee13caab  <-- pretty cool11:06
Madpilotnickrud: you mean "save sessions"? Opera does that...11:07
Burgundaviaepip also does it11:07
Madpilotdoesn't Firefox?11:07
Burgundaviano11:07
nickrudyeah, but I do like the way epiphany searches the bookmarks and history as you type11:07
Burgundaviathat is cool11:08
nickrudbut the single hierarchy in the bookmark editor kinda sucks11:09
MadpilotEpiph doesn't allow folders in the bookmark file?11:09
nickrudanyway, my workday starts about 3 hours from now. 11:10
nickrudMadpilot, no, just one level of aggregation.11:10
Madpilotsleep might be a good idea11:10
nickrudAnd, it's gonna be a busy day. good night :)11:10
Madpilotonly one level? yikes. I go three layers deep in parts of my Opera bkmrk file...11:10
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Madpilotg'night, all11:58
rob^night11:58
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carthikhello - a quick question - can someone give me an estimate of the number of man hours a document like the adminguide will take to be created?08:54
Madpilot"more than you think"?08:55
Madpilot;)08:55
Burgundavia50 or 60?08:56
Burgundaviathe quicktour has already taken me around 1508:56
carthik50 or 60 hours for the whole admin guide?08:57
carthikI am trying to estimate how much time would be required to write a guide myself08:57
carthiknot related to ubuntu - for another OS project...08:57
Burgundaviayes08:58
Burgundaviato write test and edit, probably around that08:58
carthikthanks guys09:00
Burgundavianp09:00
Madpilot"more than you think" sounds about right, then...09:01
Burgundaviayes, lots more than you think09:01
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