[02:30] <Burgundavia> highvoltage, jerome is knee-deep in edubuntu stuff
[02:31] <Burgundavia> highvoltage, rob^ and mgalvin are working on the faqguide
[02:31] <Burgundavia> highvoltage, and I will be working on the quicktour tomorrow
[04:43] <Burgundavia> mdke, is there much difference between the two T43's
[06:11] <Burgundavia> jdub, hey
[06:13] <Madpilot> hi all
[06:13] <Madpilot> rob^: you around?
[06:13] <Burgundavia> jdub, I specifically asked for a UI freeze for us because the theme changed at the last minute in Hoary
[06:14] <jdub> the engine won't be changing
[06:14] <Burgundavia> but the look might
[06:14] <Burgundavia> all I care about is for screenshots
[06:14] <jdub> in large part, it won't
[06:14] <jdub> ui freeze doesn't cover artwork
[06:14] <Burgundavia> oh
[06:14] <jdub> but in general, the basic building blocks are set
[06:14] <Burgundavia> that was my understanding
[06:15] <Burgundavia> 29th probably wont give us enough time to take all the screenshots that might have changed for all translations
[06:15] <Burgundavia> I thought we had a month for the translators to do that
[06:16] <jdub> the engine won't change
[06:16] <Burgundavia> but the look will
[06:16] <jdub> that doesn't mean anything
[06:16] <Burgundavia> yes it does
[06:16] <jdub> dude
[06:16] <jdub> the gtk theme won't change
[06:16] <jdub> the metacity theme may change
[06:17] <jdub> (but i doubt it)
[06:17] <Burgundavia> jdub, I hear you. in my screenshooters hat, I am saying, I don't care about what actaully changes
[06:17] <jdub> most of it will be nailed down before the 29th
[06:17] <Burgundavia> I am merely saying that that the 29th is probably too late for us
[06:17] <jdub> yes, you do care about what actually changes
[06:17] <jdub> because the majority of screenshots you can take without caring
[06:17] <Burgundavia> sorry, bad wording
[06:18] <jdub> there are very few screenshots that should include:
[06:18] <jdub> - background
[06:18] <jdub> - application / file manager icons
[06:18] <jdub> - splash screen (none, really)
[06:18] <jdub> - usplash (none, really)
[06:18] <jdub> etc.
[06:18] <Burgundavia> ouch
[06:19] <Burgundavia> I totally misunderstood UI freeze
[06:19] <Burgundavia> I thought it meant that the UI was not going to change, period
[06:19] <Burgundavia> the look and the code was set
[06:19] <jdub> no
[06:19] <jdub> the UI will not change
[06:19] <jdub> the artwork may
[06:19] <Burgundavia> yes, I thought UI included both
[06:19] <jdub> but if you listen, you'll understand that the majority of screenshot subjects *won't* change
[06:20] <Burgundavia> someone still needs to sort through and figure out
[06:20] <Burgundavia> jdub, is humility going to be default?
[06:21] <jdub> undecided
[06:21] <Madpilot> don't you mean "Human" for a theme?
[06:21] <Madpilot> or has that name changed too?
[06:21] <jdub> Madpilot: it will be called human, yes
[06:21] <Burgundavia> jdub, to be honest, I am deeply scared that we are going to repeat the Hoary mess. The theme changed at the last minute at made all of our screenshots look terrible
[06:21] <Burgundavia> hence why we asked for  UI freeze
[06:21] <jdub> if we switch to the SVG theme as late as artwork freeze date, then there will only be very few screenshots you need to redo
[06:22] <Burgundavia> yes, but we have to find them first
[06:22] <jdub> it's not hard, dude
[06:22] <jdub> if it's a full screen shot, or involves the file manager or panel menus, that'll change
[06:23] <Burgundavia> gah
[06:23] <Burgundavia> I just think we need a bit more certainty in this
[06:23] <jdub> there should be very few of those in ubuntu documentation
[06:23] <jdub> certainty:
[06:23] <Burgundavia> we have 3 docs on the plan for release:
[06:23] <jdub> the widget theme will not change from now
[06:24] <Burgundavia> faqguide, quicktour, and edubuntu cookbook
[06:24] <jdub> the metacity theme is wildly unlikely to change from now
[06:24] <Burgundavia> jdub, I understand that the widget set will not change
[06:24] <Burgundavia> I totally understand all the various parts, etc.
[06:24] <Burgundavia> what I am saying is that the screenshot doesn't care what changes, if *one* thing in a screenshot changes, we need to reshot it
[06:25] <Burgundavia> and so do all the translators
[06:25] <jdub> then i don't think you really understand at all
[06:25] <jdub> the two artwork items that will affect the vast majority of screenshots are the gtk+ and metacity themes
[06:25] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:25] <jdub> those are enormously unlikely to change
[06:25] <jdub> thus, most of your screenshots, from UI freeze, will not have to be reshot
[06:26] <Burgundavia> a metacity theme change like we had in Hoary would be a total disaster
[06:26] <jdub> the metacity theme didn't change in hoary
[06:26] <jdub> the gtk+ theme did
[06:26] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:26] <jdub> but complaining about what happened in hoary is irrelevant
[06:27] <jdub> as above, the only one that may change is the metacity theme, and even that is vastly unlikely
[06:27] <Burgundavia> I realize that
[06:27] <jdub> from that, we have:
[06:27] <jdub> - possible icon theme change
[06:27] <jdub> - definite background change
[06:27] <jdub> both of which impact only a small number of screenshots
[06:28] <Burgundavia> jdub, I accept your reassurance but will reserve judgement until I see the actual changes
[06:29] <jdub> perhaps it would be wise to take the above on board and look at which screenshots will be effected
[06:29] <Burgundavia> I will parse through the faqguide tomorrow
[06:30] <Burgundavia> I also plan to write most of the quicktour tomorrow
[06:30] <jdub> if any involve panel menus or are full screen shots unnecessarily, they can be zapped
[06:32] <Burgundavia> a quick parse of the quicktour as it exists shows that about 1/4 would have to replaced with an icon theme change
[06:55] <Burgundavia> morning jsgotangco 
[06:55] <jsgotangco> hi!
[06:56] <Burgundavia> I have a free day tomorrow to actually write!
[06:56] <jsgotangco> lol how is your new job?
[06:56] <Burgundavia> quicktour should be mostly done by tomorrow this time
[06:56] <Burgundavia> tiring but still interesting
[06:56] <jsgotangco> i'm sorry if i haven't devoted that much time for the quick tour
[06:57] <jsgotangco> i am trying to divide my time between commits and real life
[06:57] <Burgundavia> np
[06:57] <Burgundavia> I had no free time last week either
[06:57] <Burgundavia> only able to install Colony 3 last night
[06:57] <jsgotangco> i was trying to do a small article similar to the gnome preview for breezy
[06:58] <jsgotangco> my M2 doesn't like Ubuntu one bit
[06:58] <Burgundavia> ouch
[06:58] <Burgundavia> mine even hibernates now!
[06:58] <jsgotangco> either that or it just dislikes X.org
[06:58] <jsgotangco> mine does too
[06:58] <jsgotangco> even brightness works
[06:58] <jsgotangco> most of the function keys are useless though
[06:59] <Burgundavia> tosh seesm to have a bunch crazy 3rd party utils
[06:59] <Burgundavia> most of them are crap
[06:59] <jsgotangco> X still has a lot of issues from Colony 3, even the scroll wheel of a usb mouse doesnt work
[06:59] <Burgundavia> my docking station is mostly useless
[07:00] <Burgundavia> power works through it but not much else
[07:00] <jsgotangco> wow you have a doc?
[07:00] <jsgotangco> i must admit though, this M2 beside me is really nice for a windows laptop
[07:01] <Burgundavia> I even have atheros inside
[07:01] <Burgundavia> so I can get my wireless working easily
[07:01] <jsgotangco> jeezz how big is that machine
[07:01] <Burgundavia> 4.9 pounds
[07:01] <Burgundavia> 15" screen
[07:01] <jsgotangco> im not sure what mine uses but wireless works out of the box
[07:01] <Burgundavia> think you have atheros as well
[07:01] <jsgotangco> widescreen?
[07:02] <Burgundavia> yes, 1280x768
[07:02] <jsgotangco> crap
[07:02] <jsgotangco> that's a multimedia hound
[07:02] <Burgundavia> it was even detected correctly in Hoary and Breezy
[07:03] <Burgundavia> and sound was as well
[07:03] <jsgotangco> do you have a good sound system or a generic one?
[07:03] <jsgotangco> mine is basically a business model
[07:04] <Burgundavia> basic, mine is also a business model
[07:04] <jsgotangco> did you experience having your screen all fuzzy and garbled in hoary at default?
[07:05] <jsgotangco> mine does, it only works on 800x600 should I file a bug for it? the thing works in breezy at 1024
[07:05] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:06] <Burgundavia> I got lucky with my laptop
[07:06] <jsgotangco> nice..mine is starting to be a PITA
[07:07] <jsgotangco> (its so light though)
[07:07] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, you forgot something on the template
[07:07] <jsgotangco> Frequency Scaling
[07:07] <Burgundavia> and lid close
[07:07] <Burgundavia> email me
[07:07] <jsgotangco> ok
[07:07] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-laptop list doesn't seem to be working yet
[07:08] <Burgundavia> you missed the fun on #ubuntu-laptop
[07:08] <jsgotangco> what happened?
[07:08] <jsgotangco> you don't want mjg59 to get pissed
[07:09] <jsgotangco> haha
[07:10] <Burgundavia> sad, actually
[07:10] <jsgotangco> does he have an idea that sarge uses our X?
[07:10] <Burgundavia> no idea
[07:10] <jsgotangco> we hae the most beautiful X in the world at the moment
[07:10] <Burgundavia> the newest
[07:10] <Burgundavia> the only one even close is Gentoo
[07:11] <jsgotangco> the clarity in breezy is outstanding
[07:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I also learned somethign I don't like today
[07:11] <jsgotangco> what is that?
[07:12] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, UI freeze is not the end of all changes to look
[07:12] <jsgotangco> @%!$^
[07:12] <Burgundavia> that is the artwork freeze, which is Sept 29th
[07:12] <jsgotangco> holy crap what does that make us then
[07:12] <Burgundavia> jdub and I had a discussion about it
[07:12] <Burgundavia> we disagreed on what it meant
[07:12] <jsgotangco> we're going to end up making notes and disclaimers that our frozen docs are not the final ones
[07:13] <Burgundavia> I looked at the quicktour
[07:13] <Burgundavia> if the icon set changes (which it might), we will need to reshoot about 1/4 of the stuff
[07:13] <Burgundavia> anything further is going to suck more
[07:14] <Burgundavia> I thought you raised this at UDU (not blaming you)
[07:14] <jsgotangco> I did
[07:14] <jdub> jsgotangco: Burgundavia is making a big deal about very little
[07:14] <jsgotangco> it is something that can be workable given our time
[07:15] <Burgundavia> we will see how it flows
[07:15] <jsgotangco> even at the start all our docs have disclaimers on such if i remember correctly
[07:16] <jsgotangco> but a properly written doc have very little use of graphics to make a statement IMO
[07:16] <jsgotangco> its still the same instructions
[07:16] <Burgundavia> yes, the strings shouldn't have to change
[07:16] <Burgundavia> the UI is not to shift
[07:17] <Burgundavia> so mostly it is just a communications things
[07:17] <Burgundavia> we need to get the word out to the translators and then get those screenshots back in
[07:17] <jsgotangco> i'm sure there won't be any radical changes in the UI/Artwork that generally borks our work
[07:52] <nickrud> Burgundavia, I couldn't resist having the only aptitude page :)
[07:53] <Burgundavia> nickrud, was that you? nicely written stuff
[07:53] <Burgundavia> is it linked from User Documentation?
[07:53] <jsgotangco> ?
[07:54] <nickrud> It's from memory, mostly. I lost nearly all my history when I just moved.
[07:55] <nickrud> I've also been working on the voodoo3 page :)
[07:55] <Burgundavia> might be nice to have the best practices stuff on UserDocumentation
[07:55] <Burgundavia> and secondary stuff on a catchall page
[07:55] <Burgundavia> so we would have 2 links instead of 30
[07:56] <Burgundavia> for each section
[07:56] <nickrud> I have no problem with that; synaptic is gone, I guess, so, what's for the nearly competent like myself :)
[07:57] <Burgundavia> problem is that we have too many ways to doing it
[07:57] <Burgundavia> synaptic sucks but gnome-app-install has some nasty corner issues
[07:57] <Burgundavia> like codecs
[07:57] <nickrud> I've looked at the faq that just got published; maybe somewhere in that
[07:58] <nickrud> and I've not used gnome-app-install, so have no comment
[07:58] <Madpilot> I was wondering about this new app-install thing and stuff like codecs - why wasn't Synaptic just polished instead?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> because synaptic sucks and is in C
[07:58] <Burgundavia> python is much faster to code in
[07:58] <Burgundavia> and synaptic is very powerful
[07:59] <nickrud> all the search things I look for were in synaptic, but I don't python.
[07:59] <Burgundavia> g-a-i is a very nice program
[07:59] <Madpilot> but if stuff like codecs aren't going to be in app-install - because they have no need for a .desktop file - ppl are going to be using Synaptic anyway, or the CLI...
[07:59] <Burgundavia> I was thinking about that
[08:00] <Burgundavia> you can create a .desktop file that doesn't add anything to the menu
[08:00] <Burgundavia> thus add .desktop files to all the codec packages
[08:00] <nickrud> have to look, I guess, it's breezy :)
[08:00] <Madpilot> a desktop-less .desktop file? interesting...
[08:01] <nickrud> g-a-i only does things with a .desktop?
[08:01] <nickrud> so, l~g~sgnome is still useful :)
[08:01] <Madpilot> nickrud: that's what I was reading - I don't run Breezy myself
[08:02] <Burgundavia> g-a-i is for end users
[08:02] <Burgundavia> our parents and siblings
[08:02] <Madpilot> end users need codecs, though
[08:02] <Burgundavia> (excepting my sibling)
[08:02] <nickrud> and aptitude is what we use to keep those end users happy.
[08:02] <Burgundavia> yes they do, that is why these corner cases need to be solved
[08:02] <Burgundavia> g-a-i is far from a finished product
[08:04] <Madpilot> isn't aptitude a CLI thing? alternate to apt-get?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:05] <Madpilot> so... Synaptic is being depreciated in favour of an app (g-a-i) that won't have everything Syn does, and a return to the CLI? seems like a step backward
[08:05] <Burgundavia> no
[08:06] <nickrud> not necessarily,
[08:06] <Burgundavia> synaptic is not going anywhere for breezy
[08:06] <Burgundavia> I expect to see it disappear from the default instlal for +1 or +2
[08:06] <Burgundavia> as g-a-i fills in the holes
[08:06] <nickrud> so, will etch ever be a basis for ubuntu ;D
[08:07] <Burgundavia> no
[08:07] <nickrud> oh
[08:07] <Burgundavia> ubuntu is based on sid, which is newer than etch
[08:07] <nickrud> ?
[08:07] <nickrud> next sid freeze, etch is.
[08:07] <Burgundavia> sid is unstable, etch is testing (the next stable)
[08:08] <Burgundavia> packages go from experimental --> sid (unstalbe) --> etch (testing)
[08:08] <Burgundavia> and then etch gets released
[08:08] <Burgundavia> and we get a new testing
[08:08] <Burgundavia> sid is rolling
[08:08] <nickrud> sid breaks my toys, he's done it before. Breezy is meaner :)
[08:08] <jsgotangco> we always use sid
[08:10] <jsgotangco> hmm toshiba has this transparent network config thingy that gets washed away in a white background in windows :)
[08:10] <Burgundavia> and the stupid custom default control panel that gets launched with the toshiba assist button
[08:11] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: a triumph of graphical design & UI design! ;)  </sarcasm>
[08:14] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you need to email me about whatever I missed on the laptop page
[08:14] <nickrud> So, a serious question. I've been looking for an actual place to contribute, and working with docs seems useful
[08:14] <Madpilot> nickrud: there's always wiki stuff that needs editing!
[08:14] <rob^> owwww my butt hurts so much!
[08:15] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, you or the list?
[08:15] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, me
[08:15] <jsgotangco> ok
[08:15] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am going to compile a list and send it around
[08:15] <rob^> stupid weak desk at work
[08:16] <jsgotangco> what's the use of the Pause/Break key?
[08:16] <Burgundavia> for old dos apps
[08:16] <Burgundavia> the stop the output flow so you could read it
[08:17] <jsgotangco> you forgot to add if parallel port works
[08:17] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, sent
[08:17] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, cheers
[08:17] <Burgundavia> robitaille, are you still up or is this an autoconnect?
[08:17] <jsgotangco> i'll move to the M2
[08:18] <jsgotangco> i'm tired of playing with windows already
[08:18] <robitaille> I'm up.  I had to reboot from Hoary to Breezy to test something. And once again experiencing multiple gnome-panels crashes....
[08:18] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, cheers to your first email :)
[08:18] <Burgundavia> fun
[08:18] <Burgundavia> don't think I will shut down my machine tonight
[08:19] <jsgotangco> has anyone experienced stage 2 hanging at 91%
[08:19] <Burgundavia> I had to burn 3 discs before I got one that installed
[08:20] <jsgotangco> did you do integrity check?
[08:20] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: got that already? cool
[08:20] <jsgotangco> our list is quite fast
[08:20] <Burgundavia> ok that was wierd
[08:21] <Burgundavia> I got the email from jdub replying to the email about Avahi before I got the original email
[08:21] <jsgotangco> that's really fast
[08:21] <Madpilot> I've gotten u-doc email out of order as well, actually
[08:22] <Madpilot> gets very confusing - I barely know what's going on at the best of times! ;)
[08:22] <Burgundavia> gmail actually threaded that one correctly
[08:22] <Burgundavia> it is the gnome mail servers, they are wierd right now
[08:22] <jsgotangco> what gnome list are you in?
[08:23] <Burgundavia> desktop-devel, nautilus, multimedia, muine
[08:23] <jsgotangco> gnome-marketing is fun
[08:23] <Burgundavia> oh and that too
[08:23] <Burgundavia> and doc and doc-utils
[08:26] <robitaille> how many lists are you on Burgundavia?  Just the ubuntu ones are overwehelming me...
[08:27] <Burgundavia> robitaille, I just unsubscribed from the bugzilla, that was killing me
[08:27] <Burgundavia> aside from that, the 3 biggest are inkscape-devel, desktop-devel and ubuntu-devel
[08:27] <Burgundavia> I am subscribed but don't follow -users
[08:28] <robitaille> I quickly scanned the bugzilla list on a daily basis;  I have been back into doing more bug triage in recent days in both bugzilla and malone.
[08:28] <Burgundavia> probably 25
[08:28] <robitaille> I have nearly stopped follwoing -users and #ubuntu; just too much high-volume, and too much noice.
[08:28] <jsgotangco> i haven't done anything in malone yet
[08:29] <robitaille> Malone is getting nicer every day.
[08:29] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:29] <Burgundavia> the other thing I totally neglect is the Canadian loco team. No time for that
[08:29] <Burgundavia> oh, wallace and gromit film!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/4167392.stm
[08:32] <jsgotangco> i keep getting confused on the # and British pound key
[08:32] <Madpilot> just did a significant cleanup of this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptitudeSurvivalGuide - it matches the conventions of BasicCommands now
[08:32] <Burgundavia> the # is also called a pound on the telephone, just to be confusing
[08:34] <Burgundavia> Madpilot,  looks good
[08:34] <Madpilot> thanks
[08:34] <Madpilot> how much "Canadian localization" do we really need, anyway? Perhaps, "Welcome to Ubuntu, eh?" :)
[08:35] <Burgundavia> loco teams are also marketing teams
[08:36] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, my crazy inuktitut idea
[08:37] <jsgotangco> is that your gift to Nunavut
[08:37] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:37] <Burgundavia> ya
[08:38] <Madpilot> right, got it. There's no reason the Inuktitut idea won't work, you just need to convince a couple of governments of that!
[08:38] <Burgundavia> this is looking sweet --> https://launchpad.net/products/bazaar
[08:38] <Burgundavia> I understand a lot of legwork has already been done
[08:38] <jsgotangco> yeah baz rocks
[08:38] <jsgotangco> till i segfault
[08:38] <jsgotangco> i must malone it
[08:38] <Burgundavia> no, the launchpad page
[08:39] <jsgotangco> ohh
[08:39] <Burgundavia> but yes, baz rocks
[08:39] <robitaille> Madpilot: and convince the local people that they need Linux :)
[08:39] <Burgundavia> give them free computers with edubuntu and inuktitut
[08:39] <jsgotangco> how about the fonts?
[08:39] <Burgundavia> every school in Nunavut
[08:39] <Burgundavia> several exist
[08:39] <Burgundavia> mandrake has one
[08:39] <jsgotangco> GPL'ed?
[08:39] <jsgotangco> even LGPL would do
[08:39] <Burgundavia> unknown about DFSG-free or not
[08:40] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  yeah...I have been using bazaar-ng for a while at work; works great
[08:40] <Burgundavia> robitaille, just you?
[08:40] <jsgotangco> bzr already?
[08:41] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  just me;  I use it to track changes in some code of mine
[08:41] <Burgundavia> cool
[08:41] <Burgundavia> bzr is going to be baz2 and be ready by April 2006
[08:42] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:42] <Burgundavia> in time from Breezy+1
[08:42] <robitaille> but it's usable now (at least for my needs)
[08:42] <jsgotangco> baz would be ready in a few weeks
[08:43] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you follow daily crack or what is in breezy?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> vote dammit --> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000007
[08:45] <jsgotangco> not really i don't have that much stuff to break in the first place
[08:45] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, does your A5 connect to an AP via Gnome?
[08:45] <Burgundavia> never tried it yet
[08:45] <Burgundavia> going to try tomorrow
[08:45] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  the current numbers for that vote are probably the real numbers.
[08:46] <jsgotangco> mine doesn't connect at setup at all
[08:46] <jsgotangco> it got detected as eth0
[08:46] <jsgotangco> do people actually live in nunavut?
[08:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[08:47] <Burgundavia> robitaille, huh?
[08:48] <Burgundavia> about 30k --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut
[08:48] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[08:49] <jsgotangco> just for the canucks out there, I am seriously thinking of moving to Victoria
[08:49] <Burgundavia> sweet
[08:49] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  30% gnome, 50% KDE...sounds about right
[08:49] <Burgundavia> robitaille, for an online survey, sure
[08:49] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  do you have better numbers?
[08:49] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: cool
[08:50] <Burgundavia> robitaille, I don't trust online surveys
[08:50] <Burgundavia> too easy to stack
[08:50] <robitaille> jsgotangco:  at this rate, forget the Canadian loco team, let's create a Victoria Loco team
[08:50] <Burgundavia> we already have 3
[08:50] <Madpilot> robitaille: only *after* we actually manage to meet in person! ;)
[08:50] <jsgotangco> hah
[08:51] <Burgundavia> robitaille, tux magazine is also heavily pro-KDE
[08:51] <robitaille> yeah yeah...it will happen one day.  maybe we should plan a bug night or something
[08:51] <jsgotangco> yeah tux magazine is so Linspire
[08:51] <Burgundavia> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-May/msg00087.html
[08:51] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  numbers I had heard before were 50%-66% KDE
[08:52] <Madpilot> robitaille: beer, pizza & laptops? (I don't have a laptop, but I've got a good house to host stuff in right now!)
[08:52] <robitaille> at work we are a KDE/Mandriva shop...I'm probably the only gnome person around
[08:52] <Burgundavia> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-August/msg00098.html
[08:52] <jsgotangco> hmm they haven't thought of cutting you in half yet
[08:53] <jsgotangco> robitaille, same with my last employer they are very heavy into Qt
[08:53] <jsgotangco> i felt so alone that I decided not to continue my contract
[08:53] <jsgotangco> well its not just about it anyways :)
[08:53] <HrdwrBoB> hehe
[08:53] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, have you found a new job yet?
[08:53] <robitaille> in our case, it's simply that that sysadmin like Mandrake.  (but he has been trying Kubuntu at home this weekend...)
[08:54] <jsgotangco> no I'm still open at the moment
[08:54] <robitaille> Madpilot:  yeah, sounds good. Has too be after 8pm for me...after kids go to bed :)
[08:54] <jsgotangco> my birthday is soon hopefully i get a new one
[08:54] <HrdwrBoB> argh KDE
[08:55] <Burgundavia> thursday night this week?
[08:55] <Madpilot> robitaille: I can do that, tend to be a nightowl anyway... and Burgundavia appears to thrive on very little sleep... ;)
[08:55] <Burgundavia> just need to check my work schedule before I completely commit to that
[08:56] <jsgotangco> what do you do there?
[08:56] <Madpilot> cool. I'll even drag the router upstairs so ppl can connect without unplugging my box
[08:56] <Madpilot> (no wireless here... )
[08:56] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:57] <Burgundavia> no internet for me then
[08:57] <Burgundavia> my wireless works in ubuntu, but not my wired
[08:57] <Burgundavia> strange reversal
[08:58] <Madpilot> that's exactly the opposite of the standard complaint over on #ubuntu...
[08:58] <Burgundavia> I got lucky with atheros and unlucky with some new gigabit nic
[08:58] <robitaille> Madpilot: hopefully  my laptop will be in town soon.  it should be any days now.
[08:59] <jsgotangco> mine is just good for Windows
[08:59] <jsgotangco> nothing works 
[08:59] <jsgotangco> even hoary is horribly borked
[09:01] <robitaille> jsgotangco:  I'm afraid mine will be similar.  A google search for my model type turns out very minimal (and unsuccesful) results.  At least windows will work will I will in bug reports and play around with it.
[09:02] <jsgotangco> mine is only good for playing games
[09:03] <jsgotangco> it has an attitude of not wanting to reboot in Ubuntu
[09:03] <jsgotangco> so i had to pull out the battery every now and then during an install/reboot
[09:03] <Burgundavia> hmm, googling for linux tecra a5 gives me nothing useful but \sh's blog
[09:04] <Burgundavia> and some RH4/5 install stories
[09:05] <Burgundavia> on other tecras
[09:05] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:05] <jsgotangco> not really that useful
[09:05] <Burgundavia> http://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nstoshibaPTA50A-02D00D.html
[09:05] <Burgundavia> sweet
[09:07] <jsgotangco> i will probably try Fedora on this later and see if I get the same result
[09:07] <jsgotangco> im not convinced that its an Ubuntu issue on mine
[09:07] <jsgotangco> hmm maybe i should do it in sarge instead
[09:07] <Burgundavia> ok this is just sad http://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nslinuxcomp.html
[09:07] <Burgundavia> see what they rate as excellent
[09:09] <jsgotangco> Suspend/Resume functionally not working
[09:09] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:09] <Madpilot> that's a pretty low definition of "excellent" - ouch
[09:09] <jsgotangco> i would remove suspend/resume
[09:09] <HrdwrBoB> http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000004
[09:09] <HrdwrBoB> hahahaha
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> ase closed on tuxmagazine
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> case
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> ubuntu isn't even on that list
[09:10] <Burgundavia> they had a new poll
[09:10] <Burgundavia> that listed it as Kubuntu/Ubuntu
[09:10] <Burgundavia> very odd way to do it
[09:10] <Burgundavia> but they closed that one
[09:10] <jsgotangco> they are better off being titled as Linspire magazine
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> nor is MEPIS
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> ? I got to that via their front page
[09:10] <HrdwrBoB> oh, bizarre
[09:13] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, this page explains why what I got was radically different from what I thought I was getting --> http://www.networkworld.com/weblogs/cool/2005/009222.html
[09:13] <Burgundavia> there are 2 versions
[09:14] <jsgotangco> do you have a british keyboard?
[09:14] <Burgundavia> no
[09:14] <jsgotangco> arrghh
[09:14] <Burgundavia> no, 2 very very differnet models
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> ahhh
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> yeah different
[09:14] <Burgundavia> under the same name
[09:14] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[09:14] <Burgundavia> very very dumb marketing
[09:14] <jsgotangco> thats stupid
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> I bought an X40 today for $AU1050
[09:14] <Madpilot> Toshiba got too lazy to invent a second name?
[09:14] <Burgundavia> I guess so
[09:15] <jsgotangco> the A5 i saw here wasn't widescreen either
[09:15] <jsgotangco> HrdwrBoB, looks reasonable
[09:15] <Burgundavia> they are both the same size I think
[09:15] <Burgundavia> should probably move my wiki page
[09:19] <Burgundavia> ok, page moved
[09:20] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTitle  <-- that's cool
[09:21] <Burgundavia> already installed it
[09:21] <Burgundavia> quite nice
[09:21] <Madpilot> the world needs more good Free fonts
[09:24] <Burgundavia> indeed
[09:24] <Burgundavia> the advantage with free is that the body is never getting smaller
[09:28] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, your A5 has a US  keyboard?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> no, UK
[09:33] <Burgundavia> ouch laptop memory is not cheap
[10:02] <mdke> Burgundavia, afaik not much, the wifi card is different at least. Other than that I have no idea
[10:02] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:02] <jsgotangco> i wanna cry
[10:03] <mdke> hey jsgotangco 
[10:03] <jsgotangco> even doing an iwconfig eth0 essid "ap" won't work
[10:03] <jsgotangco> hi
[10:03] <jsgotangco> and im still in hoary
[10:04] <mdke> what's the error?
[10:04] <jsgotangco> it won't associate with the AP
[10:05] <mdke> yes, but what error? look in dmesg
[10:06] <jsgotangco> hmm let me check if i turn off the kill switch
[10:09] <Burgundavia> mdke, ok. I just discovered that there are at least 5 or 6 versions of the a5
[10:09] <mdke> heh
[10:09] <Burgundavia> at they are completely different
[10:10] <Burgundavia> processor, video card, wifi card, etc.
[10:10] <mdke> :(
[10:10] <mdke> bad naming conventions obviously
[10:10] <Burgundavia> I am glad I have this version
[10:10] <Burgundavia> the other has an intel chipset wireless
[10:11] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:11] <mdke> i think mine does
[10:11] <jsgotangco> maybe that's my problem
[10:11] <mdke> it is ipw2200
[10:11] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:11] <jsgotangco> it should work on mine then
[10:11] <jsgotangco> but it didn't see the AP from the start
[10:11] <mdke> jsgotangco, have you tried setting the channel manually?
[10:11] <jsgotangco> i haven't ill compare the setting on the other laptop
[10:12] <jsgotangco> i did try to force essid and access point on iwconfig
[10:12] <mdke> try the channel too
[10:13] <jsgotangco> wireless should work even if it was named eth0?
[10:13] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:14] <Burgundavia> only the madwifi stuff sets it as ath and if you wired isn't working, then it will take the first slot
[10:14] <jsgotangco> my wired is eth1
[10:14] <Burgundavia> there was some issues with that
[10:14] <Burgundavia> interfaces switching back and forth with names
[10:15] <Burgundavia> might be resolved now
[10:16] <jsgotangco> shouldn't forcing the essid work?
[10:19] <jsgotangco> how do i force it from "unassociated" to IEEE 802.11b?
[10:21] <mdke> you can't force it to associate ;)
[10:21] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:21] <jsgotangco> it doesn't work
[10:21] <mdke> jsgotangco, has it ever worked?
[10:21] <jsgotangco> no
[10:21] <jsgotangco> although its detected
[10:21] <mdke> because on hoary, mine only worked when I switched it on, if I took it down again, it would never go back up
[10:21] <jsgotangco> does yours have a kill switch?
[10:22] <mdke> it has a hotkey for it
[10:22] <jsgotangco> dmesg says that i have to turn off the kill switch
[10:22] <mdke> hmm
[10:22] <mdke> if I were you i'd install breezy :)
[10:23] <jsgotangco> breezy is PITA more
[10:23] <mdke> oh dear
[10:23] <jsgotangco> stage 2 doesn't even finish
[10:23] <mdke> bad cd?
[10:23] <jsgotangco> so i have a messed up GDM
[10:23] <jsgotangco> no
[10:23] <jsgotangco> i've burned 5 of them and tested on another machine
[10:23] <mdke> worked ok here
[10:23] <mdke> damn
[10:23] <jsgotangco> reboot doesn't work on breezy
[10:24] <jsgotangco> hmm dmesg says the kill switch is on, but its already turned off
[10:24] <jsgotangco> my unit has a lot of windows niceties
[10:25] <Burgundavia> hmm, the totem-moz plugin die for anybody else?
[10:29] <jsgotangco> lol the hoary setup wants the kill switch to be turned on
[10:30] <mdke> do either of you guys know the file I have to edit to enable suspend to ram?
[10:30] <Burgundavia> hmm, epiphany still sucks
[10:30] <Burgundavia> too bad
[10:30] <jsgotangco> hmm i have an Intel Pro/Wireless 2200BG
[10:30] <jsgotangco> this should work *groan*
[11:04] <nickrud> I was just about to go to bed, but: epiphany sucks?
[11:05] <Burgundavia> I find it so
[11:05] <Burgundavia> needs some polish
[11:05] <nickrud> ah, we'll have to have this talk later :)
[11:06] <Burgundavia> I would love to use, but not yet
[11:06] <Burgundavia> they are making great strides
[11:06] <nickrud> just give me a plugin that 'saves ths group of tabs as a a category', and I'll be happy
[11:06] <Madpilot> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28038&PHPSESSID=1e6669a95537e2c58495cd7fee13caab  <-- pretty cool
[11:07] <Madpilot> nickrud: you mean "save sessions"? Opera does that...
[11:07] <Burgundavia> epip also does it
[11:07] <Madpilot> doesn't Firefox?
[11:07] <Burgundavia> no
[11:07] <nickrud> yeah, but I do like the way epiphany searches the bookmarks and history as you type
[11:08] <Burgundavia> that is cool
[11:09] <nickrud> but the single hierarchy in the bookmark editor kinda sucks
[11:09] <Madpilot> Epiph doesn't allow folders in the bookmark file?
[11:10] <nickrud> anyway, my workday starts about 3 hours from now. 
[11:10] <nickrud> Madpilot, no, just one level of aggregation.
[11:10] <Madpilot> sleep might be a good idea
[11:10] <nickrud> And, it's gonna be a busy day. good night :)
[11:10] <Madpilot> only one level? yikes. I go three layers deep in parts of my Opera bkmrk file...
[11:58] <Madpilot> g'night, all
[11:58] <rob^> night
[08:54] <carthik> hello - a quick question - can someone give me an estimate of the number of man hours a document like the adminguide will take to be created?
[08:55] <Madpilot> "more than you think"?
[08:55] <Madpilot> ;)
[08:56] <Burgundavia> 50 or 60?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> the quicktour has already taken me around 15
[08:57] <carthik> 50 or 60 hours for the whole admin guide?
[08:57] <carthik> I am trying to estimate how much time would be required to write a guide myself
[08:57] <carthik> not related to ubuntu - for another OS project...
[08:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:58] <Burgundavia> to write test and edit, probably around that
[09:00] <carthik> thanks guys
[09:00] <Burgundavia> np
[09:01] <Madpilot> "more than you think" sounds about right, then...
[09:01] <Burgundavia> yes, lots more than you think