[12:11] <jdub> cripes, breezy-changes a-go-go!
[12:12] <mjg59> jdub: Whole lotta acpi love
[12:12] <jdub> rawk
[12:13] <jdub> hmm, looks like i'll be syncing OOo2 again. grr. ;)
[12:19] <Keybuk> heh
[12:19] <Keybuk> how far back you reading
[12:19] <Keybuk> it took me all weekend to get the words "Rebuild with the new cairo version." out of my head
[12:20] <jdub> heh
[12:20] <jdub> that was yesterday's seemingly never-ending update
[12:20] <jdub> today's is big too, given the new gnome releases
[12:20] <Keybuk> today had fabbione uploading every single file that used to be part of X as a separate package
[12:20] <Keybuk> xlogo
[12:20] <Keybuk> xlogo-manpage
[12:21] <Keybuk> xlogo-config-file
[12:21] <Keybuk> xlogo-changelog
[12:21] <jdub> xlogo-themes
[12:21] <Keybuk> xlogo-translations
[12:21] <rtcm> btw, would be nice to have a metapackage 'x-clients' or something
[12:21] <rtcm> to pull all of those
[12:21] <jdub> doesn't xbase-clients do that?
[12:21] <jdub> at least for the relevant ones?
[12:21] <rtcm> hmm maybe but I still had to install xlsfonts and xset
[12:22] <Keybuk> xlsfonts isn't that relevant these days
[12:22] <rtcm> but xset still is handy 
[12:22] <Keybuk> I think we actually disable bitmapped fonts in fontconfig now
[12:23] <Keybuk> is there anything xset does that gnomeyconfigshit doesn't?
[12:23] <Keybuk> I guess you can fiddle with the exact pitch and timbre of ^G, always useful
[12:25] <rtcm> sure, but sometimes when gnome catches me pants down, xset is nice to debug things. oh well not relevant, forget...
[12:27] <jdub> xset is useful to set up single purpose thin clients and the like
[12:27] <Keybuk> personally I think they should all be in one package; the loss from extra dpkg control files is probably already over-balancing the space savings
[12:28] <rtcm> actually xset is used in /etc/acpi/power.sh
[12:28] <jdub> seb128: having fun? :)
[12:29] <Keybuk> rtcm: heh, there's a bug there then
[12:30] <rtcm> Keybuk: and btw, xset as currently in breezy does no longer have the dpms option...
[12:30] <Keybuk> has anyone actually filed a bug on that?
[12:30] <elmo> postgres 13963 97.6  1.5 306292 32972 ?        R    21:37 110:32  \_ postgres: katie projectb [local]  DELETE                     
[12:31] <Keybuk> postgres rocks your world, and you know it
[12:32] <elmo> yes taking two hours to run a do-nothing DELETE query really does ROCK MY SOCKS
[12:32] <seb128> jdub: I hate firefox :p
[12:33] <seb128> jdub: out of this, yeah :)
[12:34] <jdub> seb128: just doing a big mirror sync now, the next one is going to be big too :)
[12:34] <seb128> I've just removed OO.o2 here to dist-upgrade :p
[12:37] <Keybuk> elmo: and that's just running katie
[12:37] <Keybuk> imagine how sweet launchpad is
[12:37] <Keybuk> maybe that's why launchpad _never_ DELETEs
[12:51] <pitti> elmo: is that without an index? (i. e. delete command with an indexed field in where)
[12:52] <elmo> I've no idea what it's doing
[12:52] <elmo> I'm waiting for it to finish so I can see what queries actually being run
[01:31] <mdz> seb128: are you working on launchpad-integration for firefox?
[01:32] <mdz> Mez: marginally; I don't have time for it
[01:33] <seb128> mdz: I've started to look on that but I've no clue on how firefox works
[01:33] <seb128> that's on my list for tomorrow/wednesday (ie: before UI freeze)
[01:35] <seb128> pitti: do you know how firefox menus work? :)
[01:35] <pitti> seb128: no, sorry
[01:35] <seb128> :(
[01:35] <pitti> seb128: usually quite well :-)
[01:44] <mdz> seb128: what about oo.o2?
[01:45] <doko> elmo, mdz: please remove amd64-libs, all packages are now sucessfully built using the biarch toolchain. should the replacement packages be promoted to main, or should they stay in universe?
[01:46] <pitti> yay
[01:47] <seb128> mdz: utch, was not listed on the wiki. I put that on my list for next 2 days too so. 
[01:47] <mdz> doko: do you have some bandwidth available to help with LPI of oo.o2?
[01:47] <seb128> doko: do you hack on oo.o2 by any chance? :)
[01:49] <doko> seb128: no, not much. mdz: bandwith = time? what is it about?
[01:49] <wasabi_> Cool noticed the xen upload.
[01:49] <seb128> doko: putting 2 menus item to the help menu for launchpad integration like on the other desktop apps
[01:52] <elmo> doko: what about ia64-libs?
[01:52] <doko> ugh, in every single OOo app ... 
[01:53] <seb128> doko: they probably build the help menu the same way for every one, no?
[01:53] <doko> elmo: I don't see any ia64-libs ...
[01:54] <elmo> ok, '-r libs' is a bad thing to ask madison
[01:54] <seb128> mdz: can we sync gaim-encryption/universe (2.37 to 2.38)? The current version crashes gaim
[01:54] <mdz> doko: what shall we do with mozilla-openoffice.org?
[01:54] <mdz> seb128: yes
[01:54] <seb128> thanks
[01:54] <seb128> elmo: please sync gaim-encryption
[01:54] <doko> mdz: I did promote to desktop, didn't I?
[01:55] <elmo> seb128: done
[01:55] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[01:55] <mdz> doko: it is still in anastacia as of the most recent germinate run
[01:55] <mdz> doko: ah, you wrote oo.o-mozilla rather than mozilla-oo.o
[01:55] <elmo> doko: oh, err, right I mean ia32-libs, of course
[01:56] <mdz> doko: fixing
[01:56] <doko> sorry
[01:57] <mdz> doko: well I agree that it is backwards :-)
[01:59] <mdz> elmo: hrmm, I just ran cron.sync and it seems to have missed the kubuntu seeds?
[01:59] <doko> elmo: ia32-libs cannot be dropped yet. we currently don't build glibc biarch, the ncurses/bzip2 packages are disabled for biarch and64, and there are probably more packages in ia32-libs. afaiu mdz doesn't want to push for it now
[01:59] <elmo> bah, I'm running cron.sync
[01:59] <mdz> elmo: oh, ok
[01:59] <elmo> yay lack of locking
[02:00] <mdz> elmo: it's ok actually I think
[02:00] <mdz> elmo: the anastacia run that cron.sync printed was fine
[02:00] <mdz> but then the one my cron job ran got the weird output
[02:00] <elmo> doko: why hasn't atlas gone away?
[02:01] <elmo> I thought that bunch of python syncs was meant to kill it, but numarray is still b-d-ing it
[02:03] <mdz> argh, oo.o wants to come back to main
[02:05] <doko> elmo: numarray came into the archive today. maybe it needs another anastacia run?
[02:05] <seb128> 'night
[02:05] <elmo> what the hells' going on
[02:05] <elmo> how did we ever kick it out?
[02:05] <elmo> kubuntu-desktop still depends on it
[02:05] <elmo> doko: no, I just checked breezy's sources file
[02:06] <elmo> err, I'm on crack. gar.
[02:06] <mdz> elmo: is that ia64 lagging again?
[02:07] <mdz> maybe we need to stop considering ia64
[02:07] <elmo> mkubuntu-desktop |       0.48 |        breezy | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[02:07] <elmo> the problem with not considering ports is that anasatcia then wants to demote all the arch specific stuff like elilo
[02:07] <mdz> elmo: 0.48 doesn't depend on openoffice.org
[02:08] <elmo> yeah, okay, I think our two cron.sync runs clashed in funky ways
[02:08] <elmo> openoffice.org                                | openoffice.org                  | kubuntu-desktop                         | Debian OpenOffice Team <debian-openoffice@lists.debian.org>                           |         6848108 |           28756
[02:08] <elmo> once this apt-ftparchive run is done, I'll rerun cron.sync
[02:09] <mdz> weird
[02:18] <Mez> mdz: It's coming up at the moment as not being compiled with any form of output
[02:19] <mdz> Mez: parse error
[02:19] <mdz> elmo: ready for cron.sync?
[02:19] <elmo> mdz: running it now
[02:19] <Keybuk> oh SWEEEEEEEEET @ ubuntu-devel
[02:19] <elmo> also adding some locking
[02:19] <Keybuk> someone's managed to get "eth1 mac 00:00:00:00:00:00" into their /etc/iftab
[02:19] <Keybuk> (rename the loopback device)
[02:20] <Mez> mdz: ?
[02:21] <Mez> mdz: I'm getting the error "2005-08-23 01:19:46.703 Not compiled with any useable video output method.
[02:21] <Mez> " when trying to run mythtv
[02:21] <mdz> elmo: is something strange happening with ports.u.c?  the metapackage update scripts are hemorrhaging packaging
[02:21] <mdz> s/packaging/packages/
[02:21] <mdz> Mez: that error message means what it says
[02:21] <elmo> mdz: ogra claims it's timeing out for him
[02:22] <elmo> mdz: maybe that's related?
[02:22] <mdz> it's not timing out for me, but I get W: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/breezy/main/binary-hppa/Packages.bz2 was corrupt
[02:22] <mdz> for everything on ports.u.c
[02:22] <Mez> mdz: yes, but i just recompiled it myself and it had opengl and x11 output added
[02:22] <mdz> Mez: then your build environment is not the same as the buildd environment
[02:23] <mdz> Mez: \sh touched it last
[02:23] <mdz> elmo: looks like maybe Release/Packages desync, assuming debootstrap checks that these days
[02:24] <elmo> god DAMN it
[02:24] <Mez> mdz: according to the output from configure in the buildd logs, it is... and both from the buildd and building myself are reporting same errors
[02:24] <elmo> why do I believe people when they say "please process it straight into main"
[02:24] <elmo> LIARS ALL OF YOU
[02:25] <elmo> mdz: aiee, germinate still thinks oo.o is a dependee of kubuntu-desktop
[02:25] <elmo> I hate it when the world goes mad
[02:25] <mdz> Mez: you cannot tell that from the build logs
[02:25] <jdub> jbailey: around?
[02:25] <mdz> Mez: and you  just told me a moment ago that it works when you build it yourself
[02:25] <Mez> mdz: no - I said it DOESNT work when I build it myself
[02:26] <Mez> I meant that ./configure shows those ...
[02:26] <Mez> for both myself and the buildd
[02:26] <mdz> Mez: I'm sorry but I don't have time to mess with it.  if you can't figure out the problem, ->#ubuntu-motu
[02:26] <mdz> it's a multiverse package
[02:26] <Mez> no probs mdz
[02:28] <mdz> elmo: the best part is that when debootstrap fails saying the Packages file is corrupt, it exits successfully
[02:28] <elmo> haha, neat
[02:28] <jdub> mdz: should we have debmirror in main?
[02:28] <elmo> I don't know how I can fix the desync on ports.u.c really
[02:28] <elmo> hum
[02:29] <jdub> $ lscomponent universe
[02:29] <jdub> adzapper
[02:29] <jdub> debmirror
[02:29] <jdub> liblockfile-simple-perl
[02:29] <jdub> mpg321
[02:29] <jdub> squidclient
[02:29] <jdub> xplanet
[02:29] <jdub> 
[02:29] <jdub> the perl module is for debmirror
[02:29] <jdub> squidclient should probably be in main with squid
[02:29] <jdub> the others aren't important
[02:29] <elmo> mdz: where's this script running and when?
[02:29] <mdz> elmo: is the packaged debmirror a sane and useful thing to use for mirroring ubuntu?
[02:29] <mdz> elmo: it's run by hand when preparing a new version of *-meta
[02:29] <mdz> ./update in the source package
[02:29] <jdub> you just pass ubuntu-sane command line options to it
[02:30] <jdub> debmirror --progress --verbose --nosource --host=archive.ubuntu.com --root=$ROOT --method=$METHOD --dist=hoary,hoary-updates,hoary-security,breezy,breezy-updates,breezy-security --section=main,restricted --ignore-missing-release --arch=i386 /srv/archive.ubuntu.com
[02:30] <elmo> mdz: it needs some defaults updated
[02:30] <mdz> elmo: it does debootstrap --arch %s --print-debs %s debootstrap-dir %s
[02:30] <elmo> mdz: but it's as useful as it is in Debian otherwise
[02:30] <mdz> elmo: how useful is it in Debian?  I don't use it
[02:31] <elmo> mdz: if you want to mirror just one suite, it's super useful; if you want to mirror one arch and not fuck around with annoying rsync include/exclude magic, it's sueful
[02:31] <mdz> is it the canonical way to mirror?  or do people mostly just use rsync?
[02:31] <mdz> ah
[02:31] <elmo> it's the de fact way to mirror partially
[02:31] <elmo> facto
[02:31] <elmo> full mirrors usually use rsync
[02:31] <elmo> I'd be more of a debmirror fan boy if it weren't for it's current Maintainer: field
[02:32] <jdub> also good for making update CDs :)
[02:32] <elmo> it was originally written by joeyh tho, not the current Maintainer:
[02:32] <tseng> jdub: hm is rsync open to all comers?
[02:32] <mdz> I think the trouble with debootstrap is that it doesn't do the max-age magic that apt does
[02:33] <mdz> so it doesn't deala with caches properly
[02:33] <mdz> it works more often when I don't pass it through squid
[02:33] <jdub> tseng: yeah
[02:36] <elmo> mdz: ok, kubuntu-desktop depends on openoffice.org on ia64
[02:36] <elmo> or is this why you're investigating the ports.u.c stuff?
[02:37] <elmo> and sparc for that matter
[02:40] <mdz> elmo: no, I just happened to be doing metapackage updates at the same time
[02:40] <mdz> elmo: but ia64 should get the same treatment as other ports.u.c citizens
[02:41] <elmo> mdz: the only one excluded is hppa
[02:41] <elmo> and that's because lamont kept having me flush the archive
[02:41] <mdz> elmo: actually now that I look...
[02:41] <elmo> I suppose I could  just drop ia64 and sparc and affirmative action their arch-spethial packages
[02:41] <mdz> I had assumed that ia64 was crap and couldn't manage to build a trivial package in 3 days
[02:41] <mdz> but in fact it WAS caused by the ports.u.c issue
[02:42] <mdz> kubuntu-meta didn't pick up that change for ia64 until I refreshed it just now
[02:42] <mdz> other arches got it when I did my august 12 update in fact
[02:42] <mdz> so 10 days would have been complete crap
[02:42] <mdz> but in point of fact I have no idea how this happened
[02:43] <mdz> anyway the kubuntu-meta upload I did 2 minutes ago will fix it
[02:43] <mdz> once it's built
[02:46] <elmo> ok, cool
[02:48] <mdz> elmo: how does the magic work to get the uber-germinate-output on jackass?
[02:48] <mdz> the union of ubuntu, edubuntu, kubuntu
[02:48] <elmo> mdz: it's all in cron.sync?
[02:48] <elmo> it's the >> DESKTOP and >> ALL stuff
[02:49] <mdz> oh
[02:49] <mdz> I would expect there to be lots of duplicates in ALL with this method
[02:49] <elmo> sure?
[02:50] <mdz> and there are, but I didn't notice before
[02:50] <elmo> but for what I use it for (generating Task: and anasatica), I don't care
[02:50] <mdz> I was wondering whether it would be easy to have anastacia know _which_ Supported seed it was talking about
[02:50] <elmo> hmm, yes, it would make tracking this down easier
[02:50] <elmo> fwiw, cron.sync keeps the indvidual ones in output/tmp/ to make trackbacking at least possible
[03:00] <elmo> Subcommand 'diff' doesn't accept option '-u [--show-updates] '
[03:00] <elmo> Q#"$YTG#2#R%
[03:04] <mdz> elmo: just whisper 'bzr' to yourself quietly until it passes; that's what I do
[03:14] <mdz> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:14] <mdz>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: contact-lookup-applet but it is not going to be installed
[03:14] <mdz>                   Depends: gnome-pilot-conduits but it is not going to be installed
[03:14] <mdz>   ubuntu-live: Depends: language-support-en but it is not going to be installed
[03:15] <mdz> ^^ livefs builds failing
[03:18] <mdz> language-support-en is due to openoffice.org-dictionaries binaries, which moved to universe
[03:18] <mdz> which makes no sense because they showed up in anastacia...
[03:19] <mdz> why does openoffice.org2-dictionaries not build anywhere near the same binaries as openoffice.org-dictionaries?
[03:20] <elmo> <random guess> wasn't that one of the problematic parts of oo.2, i.e. they needed java or something non-free or something?</>
[03:22] <mdz> dunno, but the suggests etc. on oo.o2 still point to the oo.o1 package
[03:22] <mdz> s
[03:22] <mdz> I'm moving it back to main for now and will email doko
[03:23] <mdz> gnome-pilot-conduits seems to be an amd64-specific problem
[03:23] <mdz> contact-lookup-applet is uninstallable everywhere according to ~cjwatson/testing/
[03:25] <mdz> this is causing the d-i kernel and livefs kernel to be out of sync, which is bad
[03:30] <jdub> hrm, ubuntu-minimal is not really all that minimal, hey
[03:34] <schweeb> does anyone know how often netboot images are built? were there some built for colony 3 or does it even matter?
[03:36] <Mez> schweeb, email cjwatson@ubuntu.com  - he's the DI person
[03:36] <schweeb> k
[03:38] <elmo> netboot images are built both daily and as part of a d-i upload
[03:38] <elmo> see dists/breezy/main/{daily-,}installer-$arch/
[03:52] <slomo> elmo: please sync gcl from debian... this version finally works with gcc 4.0
[03:56] <`anthony> So since the recent kernel upgrade, my ethernet is screwy. I move from work (where I use a wired ethernet with b44 driver) to home (where I use a wireless ipw2200 card). When I come back into the office now, I can't get dhclient to detect any packets from the ethernet, and have to reboot to make it better. Any ideas? should I log a bug?
[03:57] <Mez> `anthony, are you suspending? andare you bringing down the wireless
[03:57] <frest0n> hello i have a new patch i'd like to submit to the ubuntu team
[03:58] <Mez> frest0n, what package?
[03:58] <`anthony> Mez: Yes, suspending. And the wireless is down, and comes back after unsuspend, I then bring it down again.
[03:58] <Mez> hmm
[03:58] <frest0n> a patch to fix broken SSH package
[03:58] <Mez> suspending is probably the problem.. I've found it can cause problems
[03:58] <Mez> but ...
[03:58] <`anthony> Mez: plus of course I still get the 'lo' disappears after an unsuspend, but that's been there for ever.
[03:59] <Mez> `anthony, have you tried an
[03:59] <`anthony> Mez: But it worked fine until the most recent kernel upgrade.
[03:59] <Mez> sudo ifdown wlan0 
[03:59] <Mez> sudo ifup eth0
[03:59] <Mez> frest0n, wha'ts "broken"?
[03:59] <frest0n> using sudo has been deprecated in future ubuntu releases
[03:59] <`anthony> Tried that (well, using eth1, as that's the wireless card)
[03:59] <spacey> frest0n, is it?
[04:00] <Mez> frest0n, I seriously doubt that
[04:00] <`anthony> Just poking around now trying to figure out how to downgrade to the kernel I had a week ago now...
[04:00] <frest0n> yes because there is a better package that does the same thing
[04:00] <frest0n> "kde-super"
[04:00] <spacey> lol
[04:00] <Mez> jjg lsgdh] #
[04:02] <frest0n> ?
[04:02] <frest0n> kde-super accomplishes all of that sudo does but more securely
[04:02] <spacey> more securely?
[04:02] <frest0n> yes
[04:03] <spacey> why is that :p
[04:04] <Mez> frest0n, where did you get this info from: as I cant seem to find it anywhere
[04:04] <frest0n> um. rtfm
[04:05] <Mez> frest0n, so ... you got this from the .... manual?
[04:08] <jdub> frest0n: please don't say 'rtfm' in ubuntu forums
[04:09] <frest0n> why not?
[04:09] <frest0n> sometimes you gotta tell the n00bs to do that
[04:09] <jdub> no, you don't; it's inappropriate in the ubuntu community
[04:10] <frest0n> well go fuck yourself you self-righteous prick
[04:10] <jdub> well, that's very inappropriate
[04:10] <jdub> we have a code of conduct, please read it :)
[04:11] <jdub> it's important to maintain harmony in our community
[04:11] <frest0n> wtf?
[04:11] <frest0n> what kind of hippie BS is that?
[04:11] <Mez> frest0n, how is a MOTU a n00b?
[04:11] <frest0n> are you some kind of freakin flower child?
[04:12] <Mez> frest0n, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct/
[04:12] <jdub> no, this is how we ensure our community is open and approachable
[04:14] <frest0n> why?????
[04:14] <frest0n> redhat never needed this garbage
[04:14] <frest0n> wtf is all this crap needed for
[04:15] <jdub> we're a community project
[04:15] <lu|away> because having a community is a good thing? :)
[04:15] <HrdwrBoB> frest0n: rather than alienating new users, we try to help them, creating a bigger and nicer community
[04:16] <spacey> and its nicer in general ^_^
[04:56] <Keybuk> hmm, I really shouldn't listen to Radio 2 at this time of night
[04:56] <Keybuk> I'm getting weirded out by the fact the DJ sounds remarkably like Ronnie Corbet
[04:56] <LaserJock> does anybody know how I can see if someone is working on updating a package?
[04:57] <Keybuk> LaserJock: there isn't a way, first one to upload wins
[04:57] <Keybuk> other than asking here, of course
[04:58] <LaserJock> well, that kinda sucks, oh well. I just saw that Scigraphica has had its firs new release in 4 years and I thought it might be nice to update it
[04:58] <LaserJock> *first
[04:58] <Keybuk> we're past upstream version freeze now
[04:59] <LaserJock> I know, I was just wonderint how the process would go for Breezy+1 or breezy backports
[04:59] <elmo> well, scigraphica's in universe
[04:59] <Keybuk> if there's killer features, major bug fixes, or you can justify it somehow; you may be able to get it updated
[04:59] <elmo> and UVF isn't applied as strictly to universe
[05:00] <elmo> but it is a) modified for ubuntu, b) doesn't have a newer version in Debian anyway
[05:00] <Keybuk> * Tightened build-depend on defoma (>= 0.8,11ubuntu2)
[05:01] <LaserJock> well, i've never really done any real packageing but as I am a scientific linux user I kinda like haveing some of the newer scientific packages around
[05:01] <Keybuk> oh, there's some other stuff in an "ubuntu1" which for some reason, I never saw a changes file for
[05:03] <Mez> hmm - if I want to break UVF for universe to make something actually work... 
[05:03] <Mez> who do i speak to to try and get authorisation
[05:04] <jdub> Mez: it's not strictly enforced for universe
[05:04] <Mez> jdub: I know :d but it's still nice to get permission off of someone :D
[05:05] <LaserJock> I think the latest Scigraphica got some cool new stuff (GTK+2 instead of GTK+1 and has a new plugin system)
[05:05] <Keybuk> that's a good justification :p
[05:05] <Keybuk> mmm GTK+ 2
[05:11] <LaserJock> well, could I email the maintainer (David Schleef) and ask him? or is that rude ;-)
[05:12] <jdub> LaserJock: ds is a nice dude, if you updated to the new version and sent him a patch, i'm sure he'd appreciate it
[05:13] <Mez> does libxv need to be declared anywhere in your xorg.conf
[05:33] <caldwell_> i'm trying to figure out why X crashes when I use XVideo (using ati driver).  I ran gdb /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg-debug <pid> and opened Totem to crash it, but it didn't dump the core.  All i've got was a segmentation error and line number in radeon_video.c.  
[05:33] <caldwell_> Any ideas how i can figure out what causes it?
[05:44] <Keybuk> s/ for irc//
[05:44] <jdub> i use it for multiple IM servers
[05:44] <jdub> it's not the most wonderful ui
[05:45] <crimsun> tbh (and I know this is off-topic) its layout seems more sane than x-chat's
[05:45] <jdub> but i look forward to galago fixing that
[05:45] <Keybuk> I want gossip-for-msn
[05:45] <jdub2> yeah
[05:45] <jdub2> have you see gajim?
[05:45] <Keybuk> I looked briefly, but didn't like it
[05:46] <jdub2> ui or code?
[05:46] <Keybuk> ui
[05:46] <Keybuk> I'm hoping for Robot101/robtaylor's effort
[05:46] <jdub2> libgaim based stuff?
[05:47] <Keybuk> rewriting gaim from the ground up based on dbus and stuff
[05:47] <jdub2> hopefully that involves some galago loving
[05:47] <daniels> \o/ dbus
[05:47] <Keybuk> lots of galago love
[05:48] <Keybuk> the intent is that it'd be for the 770
[05:48] <jsgotangco> i still like the simplicity of gossip
[05:48] <jdub2> aha
[05:48] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[05:48] <jdub2> if i could get network presence information going, that'd be even nicer
[05:48] <Keybuk> I wish they'd hurry up and release those things
[05:48] <jdub2> are they contracting for nokia too?
[05:49] <Keybuk> not sure, they were definitely trying to do that
[05:49] <jdub2> wonder what nokia would think about using aim/msn/etc
[05:49] <Keybuk> they had many meetings while in Helsinki
[05:49] <jdub2> nice
[05:50] <Keybuk> the nice thing about the 770 is you could be "always on" AIM/MSN just like SMS
[05:50] <jdub2> yeah
[05:50] <daniels> presuming you have blanket wifi coverage everywhere you visit
[05:50] <daniels> and don't leave home for more than four hours a stretch or whatever it is
[05:50] <Keybuk> daniels: it has bluetooth for phones too
[05:50] <wasabi> the nokia should be a cell phone.
[05:50] <Keybuk> so you can just use gprs
[05:50] <daniels> Keybuk: yeah, because that helps with battery life
[05:51] <Keybuk> wasabi: no point... nobody likes holding a brick to their ears
[05:51] <jdub2> it will be interesting to see how the product fares, and whether it pushes them towards open hardware/software for their phones
[05:51] <wasabi> Nobody told the SideKick guys.
[05:51] <lamont> mdz: anything else before I roll the livecd script?
[05:51] <lamont> (besides 13788)
[05:51] <Keybuk> the blackberry and hiptop suffer from being too small to be useful "devices"
[05:51] <jdub2> Keybuk: n770 with cellular bits in it, plus bluetooth earpiece
[05:51] <Keybuk> and communicator suffers from being too big to be useful phones
[05:51] <wasabi> Keybuk, I would seriously use the n770 with a bluetooth earpiece
[05:51] <wasabi> in a heartbeat
[05:51] <caldwell_> are you the -devel?
[05:51] <daniels> that is not an indictment on phones'pdas in generally
[05:51] <wasabi> yeah what jdub said
[05:52] <daniels> it's just an indictment of really big combos
[05:52] <daniels> you can make them small if you want to
[05:52] <wasabi> I like having that amount of funcationaly in a device, but yeah, I don't want to hold it to my ear.
[05:52] <jdub2> i think the failure is in the mobile user experience in general
[05:52] <daniels> the problem there wouldn't be size -- not in the least
[05:52] <daniels> it would be the price point you'd be at
[05:52] <Keybuk> jdub2: it'd be bigger and suckier on battery life, fwiu
[05:52] <Keybuk> in a few years, maybe
[05:52] <daniels> up with the ipaqs that do quad-band gprs as well, which is approximately $texas
[05:52] <daniels> Keybuk: again, bluetooth.  you lose.
[05:52] <jdub2> any of these mobile thingies are like little islands cut off from the rest of the digital planet
[05:52] <Keybuk> why is bluetooth "lose" ?
[05:53] <Keybuk> seems to work well for me, I use it for several things
[05:53] <wasabi> I will be buying a 770 as soon as I can.
[05:53] <wasabi> Simple as that.
[05:53] <wasabi> Heh.
[05:53] <wasabi> It'll be neat to customize it myself.
[05:53] <jdub2> i'm not sure it's going to have a huge consumer audience though
[05:53] <daniels> Keybuk: bluetooth loses on battery life
[05:53] <jdub2> so does wifi
[05:53] <Keybuk> daniels: why moreso than 802.11?
[05:54] <Keybuk> I'd have thought 802.11 was more loss because it's higher power
[05:54] <daniels> no more so than 802.11, but you were pushing bluetooth as 'blanket connectivity holy shit'
[05:54] <daniels> which, hate to break it to you, it isn't
[05:54] <daniels> because it dies before you've had your second drink
[05:54] <daniels> and your phone's dead from the bt as well, so you're in fact entirely uncontactable
[05:54] <Keybuk> my phone manages a day or more with my headset
[05:54] <wasabi> We should get blanket microwaves to power our devices.
[05:54] <Keybuk> my headset manages about the same time too
[05:55] <wasabi> Or I'd wear a solar panel on my head to keep it going
[05:55] <daniels> one day is abysmal battery life
[05:55] <Keybuk> I get maybe just a bit less than a day using phone+bluetooth from my laptop to get on the net (via gprs)
[05:55] <wasabi> My phone goes about 5 days.
[05:55] <daniels> i get seriously annoyed if I have to charge my phone more often than once a week
[05:55] <wasabi> No headset though
[05:55] <Keybuk> *shrug* it's a lot longer than the average interval between charges
[05:55] <Keybuk> I tend to plug it in whenever I'm at home
[05:56] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: my k700i needs charging at least twice a week
[05:56] <jdub2> also, power adapters need to die
[05:56] <jdub2> we should be charging everything with usb or something
[05:56] <Keybuk> jdub2: k750i does that :p
[05:56] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: mine goes about five to seven days between charges
[05:56] <jdub2> it's insane how many power adapters we have to deal with
[05:56] <Keybuk> I was very amused that it came with a USB adapter, and when plugged in both acts as a USB storage device (what doesn't, these days?) and charged from it
[05:56] <daniels> Keybuk: so you go somewhere for more than 12 hours and you're screwed
[05:56] <daniels> Keybuk: i love this universal connectivity plan
[05:56] <Keybuk> daniels: a day = 24
[05:57] <Keybuk> and I don't think I've ever spent 24 hours away from somewhere with a power socket
[05:57] <daniels> Keybuk: ok, so you're precluded from leaving your house for more than 24 hours if you want to remain contactable ...
[05:57] <wasabi> Keybuk, hahah
[05:57] <Keybuk> admittedly, there's a lot less places without them in the UK
[05:57] <Keybuk> (compared to .AU where there are areas larger than the UK without any power :p)
[05:57] <HrdwrBoB> also an inverter for the car helps with that
[05:57] <Keybuk> trains have power sockets, most malls have a phone charge point, etc.
[05:57] <jdub2> i am generally closer to a power point than a car ;-)
[05:58] <HrdwrBoB> though 12VDC->240VAC->5VDC and 16VDC is TERRIBLE ineffecient
[05:58] <HrdwrBoB> *Y
[05:58] <daniels> if your solution involves an inverter for my hypothetical car, you have lost
[05:58] <daniels> so far I'm needing to charge my 770 around six times a day, and my phone once a day
[05:58] <wasabi> Ahh good. Totem-gstreamer shows subtitles
[05:58] <daniels> doesn't sound like I can actually go anywhere in the first place, which seemed to be the point of this whole 'universal coverage' pallaver
[05:58] <Keybuk> who'd you blag a dev one off?
[05:59] <wasabi> And audio! 
[05:59] <lifeless> whats a 770 ?
[05:59] <wasabi> Yay totem-gstreamer has more features than totem-xine!
[05:59] <jdub2> lifeless: nokia 770
[05:59] <Keybuk> lifeless: www.nokia.com/770  and where have you been the past few months?
[05:59] <lifeless> the maemo thing ?
[05:59] <Keybuk> yah
[05:59] <jdub2> lifeless: the righteous hardware i mentioned in my talk the other night
[05:59] <lifeless> jdub2: you talked ?
[05:59] <wasabi> Can't seem to get the video's metadata though
[05:59] <lifeless> I was playing pool ;0
[05:59] <jdub2> i did a talk after pasc
[05:59] <lifeless> oh right yes, I remember that
[05:59] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: seven times a day?
[05:59] <lifeless> I just didn't know the number
[05:59] <daniels> Keybuk: i don't have one, I'm saying in this hypothetical world where I'm always reachable when I'm out, provided I bring two chargers and spend the whole night sitting near two power points
[06:00] <HrdwrBoB> *six
[06:00] <HrdwrBoB> hardly worth unplugging
[06:00] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: working from a battery life of four hours when actively using wifi
[06:00] <HrdwrBoB> oh, ouch
[06:00] <HrdwrBoB> wtf bother
[06:00] <wasabi> uh oh. Paused totem-gstreamer. Now I can't unpause it.
[06:00] <HrdwrBoB> better off with a real laptop
[06:00] <wasabi> totem-xine wins again
[06:00] <jdub2> HrdwrBoB: not once the mobile user experience is improved
[06:01] <Keybuk> daniels: four hours is more time than I'd generally spend out of the house with it
[06:01] <Keybuk> actively browsing
[06:01] <jdub2> i don't want to carry around a full laptop, but i do want to be connected
[06:01] <Keybuk> that's less than the amount of time to go shopping, or to go to the gym, etc.
[06:01] <Keybuk> it's more than, say, to go drinking and clubbing -- but I'm not going to be caring about connectivity doing that :p
[06:02] <Keybuk> going to London for a sprint, there's power on the trains and I'd be carrying charger anyway
[06:02] <HrdwrBoB> power on the trains is very cool, we're lucky if our trains have airconditioning, or in fact, GO
[06:02] <lifeless> Keybuk: actually, I recall you finding pubs with gpr
[06:03] <lifeless> s
[06:03] <lifeless> connectivity matters ;0
[06:03] <Keybuk> lifeless: pubs with wireless
[06:03] <Keybuk> they're pretty common in the UK
[06:03] <Keybuk> most chain pubs have it
[06:03] <Keybuk> but on a saturday night, that's not what I look for :p
[06:03] <Keybuk> (not that I go out these days, but you get the idea)
[06:03] <jdub2> looking for different chains
[06:03] <daniels> Keybuk: assuming people are sending you messages and shit and you're sending keepalives, you're going to spend more time with the radio on than off
[06:04] <Keybuk> daniels: right, but the four hours quoted is "radio on all the time"
[06:04] <daniels> i still think it's not even worth considering until that improves six-fold
[06:05] <Keybuk> zero-point-energy is the way forward
[06:05] <Keybuk> none of these silly chemical batteries
[06:05] <Keybuk> just tap the raw ambient energy of the universe
[06:05] <Keybuk> works everywhere without recharging :p
[06:05] <daniels> the 770 is an awesome device, and I'll certainly be getting one
[06:05] <jsgotangco> like a Seiko Kinetic watch
[06:05] <daniels> but like hell it's a solution for universal connectivity
[06:06] <daniels> if people need to SMS me when I'm out at a bar somewhere, they can SMS me
[06:06] <Keybuk> jsgotangco: that's just kinetic energy :p
[06:06] <daniels> right now, the whole IM solution you posited *does* *not* *work*
[06:06] <lifeless> keybuk zpe is most useful as a /dev/random provider ;0
[06:06] <jsgotangco> its good for a watch anways
[06:06] <mdz> lamont: nothing else in the livecd script queue at this time, thanks
[06:07] <Keybuk> daniels: why not?  given the constraints I gave (going shopping or to the gym)
[06:07] <lamont> mdz: ok
[06:07] <Keybuk> those are both well within the maximum battery life of the device
[06:07] <daniels> Keybuk: if you need to get to me so urgently that you can't wait until I've gone to the supermarket, you can bloody well call me, else it's not that urgent
[06:07] <daniels> Keybuk: it doesn't stand up to leaving the house for things that are not shopping or gym
[06:08] <Keybuk> such as?
[06:08] <Keybuk> maybe I'm getting old and not leaving the house much :p
[06:09] <daniels> put it this way
[06:09] <daniels> on saturday night, i went out.  i left the house for dinner at about 7, went to an awesome bar for belgian beer, then on to a cocktail bar, and i was home by about 4:30am.
[06:09] <daniels> that's a good 9.5 hours
[06:10] <daniels> if I wasn't working during the day and instead decided to go out, see some friends, do some random shopping, whatever, that could just as easily have been 16 or more hours
[06:14] <lamont> mdz: kubuntu build happened 1 hr ago with the old script, ubuntu & base will happen in 1 hr (and 1:45) with the new script.
[06:14] <lamont> mdz: want another kubuntu run with the new script?
[06:17] <Keybuk> OF COURSE, FIRST IT'D BE NICE IF MY F!*^CKING ISP COULD KEEP ME CONNECTED
[06:18] <daniels> Keybuk: your ISP is trying to tell you that your plan is the suck
[06:19] <Keybuk> I excluded Saturday nights from my plan
[06:19] <Keybuk> really, what I want to be able to do, is nip out and go to the gym in technical board meetings when pitti brings up the subject of language packs
[06:20] <ds> mdz: in your maintainer opinion, how would you rate user-mode-linux on a scale of rock-solid-stable to not-worth-the-bits-its-made-of?
[06:21] <daniels> mdz: please kick x-common into bugzilla as a component, and remove libgl*-xorg*
[06:21] <fabbione> morning
[06:21] <Keybuk> bella! fabbione!
[06:22] <dieman> nifty
[06:22] <dieman> just read a book proposal for a possible book on ubuntu.
[06:22] <dieman> pretty soon we will see 50-bazillion ubuntu books next to the fedora core ones.
[06:22] <dieman> (watch out)
[06:24] <fabbione> bella Scott
[06:26] <dieman> re: scrollback -- I just keep my fujitsu p7010 (mmm, new laptop) around with me and an EDGE card much of the time.  when I dont, just have the palm zire 72 and a bluetooth phone handy
[06:31] <lathiat> anyoen know mvo's email on bugzilla to assign a bug to him
[06:32] <jdub2> lathiat: just put in mvo, if it needs to disambiguate, it'll give you a nice page to do so
[06:32] <lathiat> jdub2: ah ok
[06:32] <lathiat> err
[06:32] <lathiat> i think fwmvo@yahoo.fr is not correct
[06:32] <jdub2> vogt
[06:33] <lathiat> michael.vogt ?
[06:33] <daniels> yeah
[06:33] <lathiat> thats better
[06:33] <lathiat> found michael.vogt@ubuntu.com
[06:33] <daniels> people assign shit to daniels at the time
[06:34] <daniels> i'm daniel.stone
[06:34] <lathiat> sorry random french yahoo person
[06:34] <jdub2> maybe we should stick in some aka fields :)
[06:34] <jdub2> malone will do that pretty nicely
[06:35] <jdub2> at least with email addresses
[06:36] <lathiat> yeh thatd be handy
[06:36] <lathiat> heh giving people lathiat@bur.st as an email
[06:36] <lathiat> they always ask if its .com
[06:36] <jdub2> i really like the existing bugzilla disambiguation stuff tho
[06:40] <Treenaks> jdub2: have you had time to look at planet ubuntu bugginess yet? :)
[06:41] <jdub2> nup
[06:41] <jdub2> elmo: please delete the planet ubuntu cache
[06:41] <mdz> daniels: I have resynced bugzilla with the germinate output and granted you editcomponents privileges
[06:41] <Treenaks> jdub2: thanks :)
[06:41] <mdz> lamont: I want another everything with the new script, if the desktop is installable now
[06:41] <mdz> lamont: it wasn't the last time I tried
[06:42] <mdz> ds: to be honest I stopped using it about a year ago and I can't give you a reasonable assessment of its status now.  at that time it had been stuck in an "incredibly useful if only..." state for quite some time
[06:43] <elmo> jdub2: err, won't that flood planet?
[06:43] <jdub> no
[06:43] <jdub> if you want, just kill the foodfight one
[06:43] <elmo> ok, done
[06:43] <jdub> thanks
[06:44] <Keybuk> is PU using Planet 0.1 or 1,0?
[06:44] <Treenaks> 1.0~pre1
[06:44] <jdub> Treenaks: i'd suggest you replace your rss flavour with mine, btw. yours is crack.
[06:44] <Treenaks> jdub: ok.. where do I find it?
[06:45] <jdub> www.gnome.org/~jdub
[06:45] <jdub> there's a hacks page linked from there
[06:50] <b3nw> fglrx is in breezy ya?
[06:50] <b3nw> in restricted modules
[06:50] <Treenaks> b3nw: yes
[06:50] <b3nw> hmm k thx 
[06:51] <Treenaks> whoa, feedvalidator.org is _slow_ today
[06:51] <Treenaks> jdub: but anyway, feed adapted & installed
[06:52] <jdub> lathiat: would it be possible to build without libdaemon, perhaps dropping the feature (running as a daemon)?
[06:53] <lathiat> jdub: does it really hurt?
[06:53] <Keybuk> libdaemon ?!
[06:54] <Keybuk> wtf ...
[06:54] <lathiat> actually libdaemon is one of the few actually required depednencies
[06:54] <lathiat> the rest just make it nicer. :)
[06:54] <jdub> lathiat: so if SMF on linux happens, most apps won't be forking and running as daemons in the traditional sense
[06:54] <lathiat> jdub: SMF?
[06:55] <jdub> lathiat: sun's very tasty init framework
[06:55] <lathiat> Keybuk: of libdaemon?
[06:55] <lathiat> jdub: interesting, all the apps will still need to run on other systems tho :)
[06:55] <Keybuk> lathiat: yeah; most "generic, done right" daemon code I've ever seen uses the same damned wrong example from Stevens
[06:55] <lathiat> Keybuk: hrm uh dunno
[06:55] <lathiat> Keybuk: whats the wrong bit? i'll look :)
[06:55] <Keybuk> (for handling CHLD signals)
[06:56] <Keybuk> assuming that the OS will issue a SIGCHLD for every child signal
[06:57] <lathiat> apt-get source libdaemon and have a look :)
[06:57] <lathiat> im not sure
[06:58] <fabbione> elmo: please reject bitmaps
[06:59] <fabbione> (forgot a B-D)
[07:01] <lathiat> does mut have a reply to all option?
[07:01] <jdub> lathiat: G
[07:02] <jdub> er, 'g'
[07:03] <Keybuk> lathiat: doesn't look like it includes child signal handling at all
[07:03] <Keybuk> always worth a giggle; Stevens apologised in UNP for the bogus code in APUE
[07:04] <fabbione> elmo: and xbiff please..
[07:05] <lamont> mdz: OK - dunno if kubuntu is installable, but I'll toss the script into the list
[07:06] <fabbione> elmo: ok.. reject only bitmaps.. xbiff is ok
[07:06] <lathiat> Keybuk: heh
[07:06] <lathiat> jdub: thanks
[07:06] <fabbione> elmo: sorry about the confusion
[07:07] <lamont> mdz:   ubuntu-live: Depends: language-support-en but it is not going to be installed
[07:07] <lathiat> ooh someones doing an LWN article
[07:08] <jdub> on avahi?
[07:09] <lathiat> yeh
[07:09] <jdub> very nice
[07:09] <jdub> joe or jon?
[07:10] <lathiat> joe
[07:10] <`anthony> daniels: a solution to your laptop power complaint? http://knowledgenews.net/moxie/discoveries/pee-is-for-power.shtml
[07:11] <lathiat> is there any way to detect when a machien goes to sleep?
[07:12] <lathiat> or at least, when it wakes up from
[07:13] <daniels> `anthony: heh
[07:15] <mdz> lamont: that's odd; I fixed that several hours ago
[07:16] <mdz> germinating...
[07:16] <lamont> well, that was the 0415DC kubuntu build with the old script
[07:16] <lamont> ubuntu-live is building now
[07:16] <lamont> that is, rootfs is
[07:16] <lamont> if that works, I'll fire off a kubuntu-live
[07:18] <lathiat> ooh kubuntu-desktop is installable again
[07:22] <fabbione> checking for setusercontext... no
[07:22] <fabbione> does anybody remember what provides that thing?
[07:24] <lathiat> it seems to be a bsd thing from google
[07:27] <fabbione> yeah thanks
[07:33] <mae> whats the status on howl
[07:33] <bob2> non-free
[07:33] <mae> ic
[07:35] <lathiat> mae: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
[07:36] <niran> is anyone else getting BadRequest X errors from pygtk programs on breezy?
[07:37] <mae> looks nice :)
[07:37] <mae> will avahi be in breezy or is it deferred to the next version?
[07:37] <lathiat> im hoping to sneak it into universe
[07:41] <mae> This sure is an exciting time for linux :) what with all the promising stuff up and coming that will attract new users... ubuntu for common people.. mono/ruby/python for developers.. and dbus/hal to implement a plethora of new technologies.. and _finally_ get laptops working decently with power management features
[07:41] <lathiat> wow, sabayon is cool
[07:41] <mae> ya sabayon is neat too :)
[07:45] <mae> it sure seems that we are gonna have a buttload of gtk sharp apps in a year or so
[07:50] <Keybuk> there's a buttload of them now
[07:52] <lathiat> jdub: 07:43 < CIA-2> gentoo: swegener * gentoo-x86/net-dns/avahi/avahi-0.1.ebuild:
[07:52] <lathiat> jdub: that was quick :)
[08:25] <mdz> infinity: how much more libgl transition stuff remains to be done?
[08:26] <infinity> mdz : For main, none.
[08:26] <mdz> infinity: ah, pike7.4 is in universe.  yay.
[08:26] <infinity> mdz : For universe, some stuff is still lagging behind on the last GLU transition from eons ago.
[08:26] <mdz> infinity: is someone on MOTU looking after it?
[08:27] <infinity> In the interest of not having half of universe FTBFS on our test runs, I figured I'd hit a bunch of them.
[08:27] <infinity> MOTU has a wiki page about it, but they don't appear to have done much so far.
[08:30] <infinity> Oh, and main is one binary build/upload (evolution-exchange on powerpc) away from being finished with the cairo2 transition too.  Yay.
[08:30] <infinity> If I hear the word "transition" again in this release cycle, I may scream.
[08:30] <infinity> That is all.
[08:31] <doko__> we're going to transition to zope2.8
[08:31] <mdz> infinity: it will feel good to have them all out of the way for dapper ;-)
[08:32] <infinity> dapper?
[08:33] <Treenaks> infinity: Dutch (probably Afrikaans too) for "brave" :)
[08:33] <mdz> doko: new oo.o2 build-deps? eh?
[08:34] <infinity> Treenaks : I know what the word "dapper" means, I was aksing for context.
[08:34] <Keybuk> infinity: breezy+1
[08:34] <mdz> infinity: er, i mean breezy+1. sshh. ;-)
[08:34] <infinity> ie: I assume this means that breezy+1 has been named "Dapper D___" while I wasn't paying attention to politics. :)
[08:34] <Keybuk> dragon, isn't it?
[08:34] <Keybuk> it might be donkey
[08:34] <Keybuk> it was silbs name, iirc
[08:35] <Keybuk> YOU CANNOT BLAME ME FOR THIS ONE
[08:35] <infinity> Dapper Donkey reminds me of Shrek.
[08:35] <ajmitch> it'll be all over the forums in 15 minutes then
[08:35] <Burgundavia> doubt it
[08:35] <Burgundavia> few of you read it and few from there come here
[08:36] <ajmitch> there are some
[08:36] <daniels> dapper donkey?
[08:36] <Keybuk> Treenaks: "smartly dressed" would be the English
[08:36] <doko> mdz: already in the OOo2 source, now built from system libraries
[08:37] <Treenaks> Keybuk: hmm
[08:37] <Burgundavia> dapper is also well mannered, usually applied to wealthy young ladies men
[08:38] <Treenaks> there used to be a Dutch TV series in the 1950s and 1960s called "Dappere Dodo"
[08:38] <Keybuk> mdz: any clue?
[08:39] <mdz> Keybuk: Norm
[08:39] <mdz> if I recall correctly
[08:39] <Keybuk> no, Norm is the dragon painted on the outside
[08:39] <mdz> oh, they're different?
[08:39] <Keybuk> yeah, they have different names
[08:39] <mdz> well hell
[08:39] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/travel/2005/australia/canonical-one/canonical-one-022.jpg
[08:39] <Keybuk> ^ norm (and elmo)
[08:40] <Treenaks> Konqi?
[08:40] <Burgundavia> only 51 hits for dapper dragon
[08:40] <Keybuk> no, it's a girl's name iirc
[08:40] <lifeless> its a girl
[08:40] <lifeless> definately
[08:40] <Keybuk> lifeless: can you remember what she's called?
[08:41] <lifeless> nope
[08:41] <lifeless> ;[
[08:41] <lifeless> :[
[08:41] <Burgundavia> 1 hit for donkey
[08:41] <Burgundavia> which apparently is a piece of music by Harold Brunt
[08:42] <lifeless> dapper dildo ?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> 2 hits for that
[08:43] <infinity> elmo / mdz : Is cron.daily not completing?... I've had binary uploads that (afaik) aren't NEW that have been sitting in "Uploaded" for ages.
[08:44] <Burgundavia> mdz, when is the official announcement of the name, etc?
[08:44] <Keybuk> I didn't think we ever officially announced the names, they just turned up on the archive
[08:45] <Keybuk> admittedly, this was last time due to a heavy period of trying to change the name before anyone found out about it
[08:45] <Burgundavia> the breezy one?
[08:45] <pitti> Good morning
[08:45] <Keybuk> breezy was very nearly _bendy_ badger
[08:45] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:45] <Keybuk> and before that was grumpy groundhog
[08:46] <daniels> yes, and after that effort, we let scott into the distro team
[08:46] <daniels> obviously our hiring policies have slipped
[08:46] <daniels> Keybuk: and no, jdub emailed one of the lists and said '... announcing breezy badger!'
[08:46] <Keybuk> not my fault
[08:46] <Burgundavia> they can't have slipped that far, they haven't hired me
[08:46] <daniels> Keybuk: hoary and breezy were both announced when they were open for the ravenous hordes
[08:46] <Keybuk> I was indicating how silly our release names could get
[08:47] <Keybuk> Mark just liked my example
[08:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's why it's better you stay silent once in a while ;)
[08:47] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, it might be the end of it all
[08:47] <mdz> Keybuk: and in spite of this you were snatched from the jaws of launchpad
[08:48] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, just might be. Canonical should hire you
[08:48] <fabbione> mdz: can you please REJECT bitmaps?
[08:48] <Keybuk> mdz: I served my time, my debt to the community, etc.
[08:48] <infinity> fabbione : Why?  Just upload a fixed one.
[08:48] <mdz> fabbione: my katie-fu is weak
[08:48] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[08:48] <fabbione> infinity: too lazy... 
[08:49] <mdz> fabbione: 3 hours ago I might have summoned the chi to do it
[08:49] <infinity> You're... Too lazy to upload a package with fixed build-deps, so you'd rather have someone reject it?
[08:49] <infinity> Dude.
[08:49] <infinity> Wow.
[08:49] <infinity> Buck passing has never been this good.
[08:49] <mdz> fabbione: is this the same xbitmaps which anastacia wants to move to universe?
[08:49] <fabbione> infinity: it's because i already have -1 resigned..
[08:49] <fabbione> mdz: bitmaps B-D xbitmaps
[08:49] <infinity> And you can't reversion it to sometihng like, oh, I dunno, -2?
[08:50] <Keybuk> oh, baz was waiting for me to enter a passphrase; makes a change for _it_ to be waiting for _me_
[08:50] <fabbione> mdz: and why did xbitmaps landed in main in the first place?
[08:50] <mdz> fabbione: not sure, that's elmo magic
[08:50] <daniels> i asked for xbitmaps to move to main
[08:50] <fabbione> infinity: there is for sure something wrong with daily. i did an upload 40 minutes ago and didn't show up yet
[08:50] <daniels> because xbase-clients or something will depend on bitmap which will dpeend on xbitmaps
[08:51] <fabbione> ahhh
[08:51] <infinity> mdz : Can you check if cron.daily on jackass is hitching up and hating life?
[08:51] <fabbione> mdz: i only have one package left out of all that mess
[08:51] <mdz> infinity: I can make a reasonable effort in that direction
[08:51] <daniels> s/move to/be placed in/
[08:51] <fabbione> mdz: that'd be xdm that's a massive FTBFS
[08:52] <infinity> mdz : Hey, it's either you, or you give me access to jackass and we can hear elmo sobbing from overseas.
[08:52] <mdz> infinity: queue/accepted is looking awfully full
[08:53] <infinity> I suspected this, yes.
[08:53] <infinity> Looks like it hasn't been running for hours.
[08:53] <infinity> (Or HAS been running for hours, which would be even worse)
[08:54] <mdz> E: gnbd-client in breezy is in the overrides more than once.
[08:54] <mdz> starting at ~0700
[08:54] <fabbione> i swear that's not my fault
[08:54] <mdz> BST
[08:54] <mdz> this happened once before
[08:55] <fabbione> gnbd-client is from RH cluster suite
[08:56] <daniels> fabbione: so you broke the archive
[08:56] <fabbione> meh no
[08:56] <fabbione> i blame the GTK interface to katie
[08:56] <mdz> elmo should be awake in a couple of hours
[08:56] <Keybuk> hmm, I got some changes files only 25 and 30 minutes ago
[08:57] <Keybuk> in fact, the last three changes files are all from infinity
[08:57] <mdz> this isn't something I want to screw with at this time of night
[08:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: it looks like some goes, others don't
[08:57] <Keybuk> yeah
[08:57] <mdz> Keybuk: things are getting ACCEPTed, but after that...
[08:57] <Keybuk> elmo probably needs to stroke it lovingly
[08:57] <Keybuk> actually, given how fast our days go by, it could just be katie's time of the month
[08:58] <infinity> mdz : elmo's only been idle for 2 hours, I don't think he's coming back anytime soon.
[08:59] <mdz> infinity: oh, this could totally be his fault then :-P
[08:59] <infinity> mdz : Quite possibly, yes. :)  You don't trust your ftpmaster-fu enough to fix the overrides?
[09:00] <mdz> infinity: no
[09:01] <mdz> first I would have to learn where they are stored
[09:01] <mdz> ok, so I think I figured that out, but using vi on them is an entirely different story
[09:02] <doko> pitti: please could you review the first three items in MainInclusionReportOOo2Deps ?
[09:02] <daniels> mdz: natalie does that, doesn't it?
[09:03] <daniels> mdz: (it comes from the db, and gets synced to text files later.)
[09:03] <mdz> natalie and I have not been introduced yet
[09:03] <daniels> natalie, mdz.  mdz, natalie.
[09:03] <daniels> natalie likes thai food and long walks along the beach.
[09:04] <daniels> mdz likes walking up walls with his feet and quirky electronic music.
[09:04] <daniels> now go!
[09:04] <pitti> doko: gar, I saw the new b-deps; will review them asap
[09:05] <mdz> daniels: I don't know about natalie, but I'm not slutty enough to get intimate after that introduction
[09:05] <doko> pitti: the first three are needed for the next upload
[09:06] <daniels> mdz: you don't have to get intimate, just take her out to dinner and bring some gerberas or something.
[09:06] <Keybuk> touch dak/rohypnol
[09:06] <daniels> Keybuk: this is why you are not allowed near our archive tools.  bad scott.
[09:07] <Keybuk> hey, I set up our original katie installing ya know
[09:07] <daniels> that would explain why it's now broken :P
[09:07] <Burgundavia> mdz, was serpentine not moved to desktop seed?
[09:07] <Keybuk> ok, so elmo laughed and immediately wiped it and started again
[09:07] <Keybuk> but hey, that's just a detail
[09:07] <daniels> haha
[09:07] <Keybuk> the funny thing is he actually asked if it'd be ok
[09:08] <mdz> Burgundavia: ages ago
[09:08] <mdz> Burgundavia: er
[09:08] <mdz> no, that was to supported
[09:08] <mdz> ogra: PING
[09:08] <pitti> hi carlos 
[09:08] <carlos> pitti, hi
[09:09] <mdz> Burgundavia: are you planning to stay awake until ogra wakes up? ;-)
[09:09] <Burgundavia> mdz, possibly
[09:09] <Burgundavia> we do live in the same timezone
[09:10] <mdz> I thought this was already done
[09:10] <mdz> and ogra marked it done on the goals page
[09:11] <jsgotangco> its not in Colony 3
[09:11] <Burgundavia> mdz, if I see him I will check with him about it
[09:12] <mdz> jsgotangco: yes, clearly it isn't
[09:13] <\sh> morning
[09:15] <\sh> hmmm...I think our customers are loving me now...just destroyed the SDT
[09:15] <lathiat> jbailey: about ?
[09:29] <Mithrandir> good morning
[09:29] <Treenaks> hi
[09:29] <sivang> morning all
[09:30] <sivang> does anybody know what should I do if I try to run gnomemeeting inside a chroot, and it can't find gconf keys? (I installed some gconf packages, it didn't work)
[09:32] <sivang> error is "GnomeMeeting got an invalid value for the GConf key "/apps/gnomemeeting/general/gconf_test_age"."
[09:36] <mvo> morning seb128 
[09:37] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:37] <pitti> Hi seb
[09:39] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:46] <sivang> bon jour seb128 , moins pitti, mvo 
[09:47] <sivang> seb128: I get this when trying to test my hack on gnomemeeting under the chroot "GnomeMeeting got an invalid value for the GConf key "/apps/gnomemeeting/general/gconf_test_age".
[09:47] <sivang> seb128: I seem to have the gconf packages installed, what's missing?
[09:48] <daniels> yo yo sebarino, pitti, mvo
[09:49] <Mithrandir> elmo: can you sync older versions?  I would like to have ia32-libs-gtk 4 synced into hoary-updates.
[10:00] <seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 -R /app/gnomemeeting should have a lot of keys
[10:03] <Treenaks> ok, who broke the wiki? :)
[10:03] <seb128> you? ;)
[10:03] <Treenaks> seb128: nah, not likely
[10:03] <seb128> not me neither :)
[10:04] <Treenaks> seb128: I'm not saying it was you
[10:04] <robitaille> Treenaks:  according to #launchpad "launchpad going down for a production update"
[10:04] <Treenaks> robitaille: ah... ok
[10:04] <sivang> seb128: bah, it's empty
[10:04] <seb128> Treenaks: I've not said you did :)
[10:04] <seb128> sivang: killall gconfd-2 and try again ?
[10:04] <pitti> "The authentication database is temporarily unavailable. Anonymous access only."
[10:05] <pitti> hmmm?
[10:05] <sivang> seb128: k
[10:05] <pitti> this trashed my current wiki edits
[10:05] <sivang> well, they should have announced in advance, no?
[10:05] <pitti> does anybody screw on the wiki ATM?
[10:05] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:05] <Treenaks> We were just in the process of re-planning the DutchTeamSpurt
[10:05] <Burgundavia> lp has gone down for a production update
[10:05] <Treenaks> because it was in the weekend of 5-6 November
[10:06] <sivang> seb128: I guess it gets confused by the chroot? should it be bound to the host system's gconf database or doesn't it matter?
[10:06] <pitti> hrmpf
[10:07] <sivang> seb128: i kilall'd , still no go
[10:07] <seb128> sivang: what are you trying to do with a chroot?
[10:08] <seb128> sivang: the schemas has to be installed, the package does that
[10:10] <pitti> doko, mdz: hunspell, mythes, and portaudio are fine for main (and required for ooo build); I just can't update the wiki right now
[10:10] <fabbione> mdz: still around?
[10:10] <pitti> doko, mdz: I filed two bugs for hunspell and mythes to build shared libs; if that happens by breezy, main inclusion is fine
[10:14] <doko> pitti: ok, I'm addressing this for this week.
[10:14] <pitti> thanks
[10:14] <\sh> grmpf...fixing gwydion-dylan
[10:15] <Burgundavia> ogra, !
[10:16] <Burgundavia> ogra, should serpentine not be in desktop seed and thus installed by default?
[10:16] <ajmitch> morning ogra 
[10:16] <ogra> morning
[10:16] <Burgundavia> ogra, oh and good morning
[10:16] <pitti> Hi ogra 
[10:16] <ogra> Burgundavia, isnt it ? 
[10:16] <Burgundavia> ogra, nope
[10:16] <ogra> hey pitti 
[10:17] <Burgundavia> mdz asked me to talk to you about it
[10:18] <jsgotangco> its not in colony
[10:18] <ogra> hmm, i thought it was seeded long ago
[10:18] <Burgundavia> so did mdz
[10:24] <sivang> seb128: can I apt-cache search for the schems packages?
[10:25] <seb128> there is no schemas package
[10:25] <seb128> the schemas is a file shipped with the apps
[10:26] <sivang> seb128: I see, so the gnomemeeting package should have installed that, apparently.
[10:29] <seb128> it does
[10:29] <seb128> dunno what you hack with your chroot
[10:33] <sivang> I didn't hack it much, really, even when installing the package from the archive I get this error
[11:01] <mvo> ping ogra 
[11:01] <ogra> pong mvo
[11:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: can you test with a newer ia32-libs, please?
[11:05] <ogra> Mithrandir, sure :)
[11:09] <jdub>  /lastlog jdub
[11:09] <jdub> bah
 jdub: you are such an aussie poofter
[11:10] <ajmitch> heh
[11:11] <jdub> heh
[11:11] <Burgundavia> jdub, have had a chance to look at the -users issue?
[11:19] <jdub> Burgundavia: i'll reset the password
[11:20] <Burgundavia> jdub, ok, cheers. FF also has a lovelly bug about saving only one admin password for all pages
[11:21] <Mithrandir> seb128: you mind if I do contact-lookup-applet, or are you already on it?
[11:22] <daniels> BenC: g'morning.  any chance I could convince you to merge some happy fun DRM patches so we get r300 DRI support as well as fix a few stability issues?
[11:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: what about it?
[11:23] <lathiat> as would i
[11:26] <sivang> Gman: interesting, can this log be sent to a file? ;-)
[11:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: it needs a rebuild, it appears
[11:45] <seb128> new libebook soname?
[11:45] <seb128> go ahead if you want, I was planning to wait on the new version
[11:46] <lathiat> *again* ?
[11:46] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok
[11:47] <ogra> elmo, ping
[11:47] <pitti> ogra: version?
[11:47] <\sh> infinity: ping...wxwidgets 2.6. looks like it's missing one pango magic dep
[11:47] <ogra> 0.67
[11:47] <ogra> pitti, i have nothing from katie
[11:48] <seb128> is firefox fixed for the people who had it crashing on pangoxft yesterday ?
[11:48] <ogra> u ubuntu-meta_0.67.tar.gz upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:05 2005
[11:48] <ogra> u ubuntu-meta_0.67.dsc upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:06 2005
[11:48] <ogra> u ubuntu-meta_0.67_source.changes upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:06 2005
[11:48] <ogra> s ubuntu-meta_0.67_source.changes upload.ubuntu.com Tue Aug 23 11:03:06 2005
[11:48] <lathiat> mm bluez security bug
[11:48] <\sh> seb128: i will test it on kde after lunch
[11:48] <pef> hello
[11:48] <Mez> ogra: can I get permission to break UVF in universe for the mythtv stuff
[11:49] <\sh> Mez: which version?
[11:49] <ogra> Mez, isnt that main ? 
[11:49] <\sh> Mez: 0.18.1?
[11:49] <pitti> ogra: I can't see any reason
[11:49] <lathiat> ogra: its multiverse
[11:49] <\sh> ogra: no universe
[11:49] <Mez> 0.18.1
[11:49] <ogra> pitti, me neither
[11:49] <\sh> Mez: doesn't work either for ppc/amd64
[11:49] <ogra> Mez, rationale ? 
[11:49] <lathiat> Mez: that fix the amd6t4 stuff?
[11:49] <pitti> ogra: it's in REPORT, but neither accepted nor rejected
[11:50] <ogra> pitti, strange....
[11:50] <Mez> oh, I didnt know it didnt work on amd64
[11:50] <Mez> :(
[11:50] <\sh> Mez: I checked on ravel for amd64...same issue as for 0.18
[11:50] <Mez> ogra: my rationale is that it isnt compiled with any video output methods
[11:50] <pitti> ogra: ok, that's elmoish
[11:50] <Mez> so you cant actually watch TV
[11:50] <ogra> i would have thought katie is broken, but other uploads seem to work
[11:50] <pitti> ogra: pitti@jackass:/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/queue $ find -name ubuntu-meta*0.67*  did not reveal anything
[11:51] <Mez> (and it's in multiverse)
[11:51] <Mez> # breezy (graphics): 0.18-2ubuntu2 [multiverse] 
[11:51] <Mez> Binary packages: libmyth-0.18, libmyth-0.18-dev, mythtv, mythtv-backend, mythtv-common, mythtv-database, mythtv-debug, mythtv-doc, mythtv-frontend
[11:51] <pitti> ogra: maybe you forgot to kiss her this morning? :-)
[11:51] <ogra> Mez, if yu dont break it, go for it
[11:51] <pitti> lathiat: hm? which one?
[11:51] <ogra> pitti, ahh, i knew this would have consequences :)
[11:52] <Mez> ogra: well I've got it working on my system
[11:52] <Mez> just by using mdz's package and canging a couple of B-Ds ...
[11:52] <Mez> but if it's broken on amd64 ... should I/
[11:52] <\sh> Mez: the problem is not i386
[11:52] <\sh> Mez: i386 works even on 0.18
[11:52] <Mez> \sh: no - the current package isnt compiled with a suitable video out
[11:52] <\sh> Mez: ppc amd64 is the problem with this damn assembler stuff...
[11:53] <ogra> Mez, find someone with TV card on amd64 and verify that it works first
[11:53] <\sh> ogra: how if it's ftbfs
[11:53] <ogra> ah
[11:53] <\sh> libavcodec issue
[11:53] <ogra> i thought its broken.... so make it compile first :)
[11:54] <Mez> ogra: I dont have access to an amd64 system (atm) and I wouldnt know how to fix it if I did
[11:54] <\sh> well...I'm not the assembler guy...atleast not on amd64 or ppc ;-) mdz as maintainer should do this...but he is to busy
[11:55] <Mez> ogra: the current version ftbfs on amd64 - yes?
[11:55] <ogra> no idea, look at the build logs
[11:55] <\sh> Mez: chekc the buildlogs..use the date from the build log I gave u yesterday
[11:55] <lathiat> pitti: DSA 782-1
[11:56] <Mez> \sh :P It was rhetorical
[11:56] <Mez> It ftbfs for amd64 and ppc at the moment already...
[11:56] <Mez> I dont know how to fix that,
[11:56] <Mez> but - I've fixed it so that it is useable
[11:57] <\sh> u fixed i386..
[11:57] <ogra> please fix the ftbfs too... look for patches
[11:57] <pitti> lathiat: ok, that's the old one I already checked; thanks
[11:57] <\sh> ok..lunch time
[11:57] <ogra> ...the world is ful of them :)
[11:57] <ogra> full even
[11:57] <lathiat> pitti: ah ok
[11:58] <Mithrandir> ogra: any luck with newer ia32-libs? *nag*
[11:59] <ogra> Mithrandir, if you tell me where to get them ... i have the latest version is what apt tels me
[11:59] <Mithrandir> ogra: hm, and you don't have a libxml2.so.2 in /usr/lib32 then?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > dpkg -L ia32-libs | grep libxml
[11:59] <Mithrandir> /usr/lib32/libxml2.so.2.6.20
[11:59] <Mithrandir> /usr/lib32/libxml2.so.2
[12:00] <ogra> ii  ia32-libs      1.4ubuntu1     ia32 shared libraries for use on amd64 and i
[12:00] <ogra> ogra@honk:~/ubuntu-seeds $ ls /usr/lib32
[12:00] <ogra> libgcc_s.so.1  libstdc++.so.6  libstdc++.so.6.0.5  libz.so.1  libz.so.1.2.3
[12:00] <ogra> thats all
[12:00] <Mithrandir> ogra: please do an apt-get --reinstall install ia32-libs
[12:04] <ogra> Mithrandir, now its populated... i wonder how all the libs disappeared
[12:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: me too, if you find out, please tell me
[12:05] <ogra> Mithrandir, but still
[12:05] <ogra> /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin.real: error while loading shared libraries: libstlport_gcc.so.4.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[12:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: reinstall ia32-libs-openoffice.org as well
[12:05] <ogra> and above, libpangohack cant be preloaded.... same error as before...
[12:06] <Mithrandir> something has nuked your /usr/lib32
[12:06] <Mithrandir> more or less
[12:06] <ogra> yup, and according to the bug i'm nt the only one....
[12:06] <sedak> ogra, when you'll have some spare time, could you please review the rtl8180-kernel package on REVU ?
[12:07] <Mithrandir> ogra: well, I don't see it, so it's a bit hard for me to track down.
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: would I disturb you if I uploaded a new gnome-vfs2?
[12:08] <seb128> pitti: nop, there is no new version for this one atm, go ahead :)
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: the new semantics of leaving the drive icons around clashes with ejecting USB devices
[12:09] <seb128> how so?
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: you can't remount an ejected device
[12:09] <pitti> seb128: it is powered off, you need to replug it to mount it again
[12:09] <seb128> put it back to the drive, g-v-m mounts it, no?
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: so I would like to drop our eject hack in g-vfs and replace it with a proper fdi in hal
[12:10] <seb128> how did it use to work?
[12:10] <seb128> seems nice
[12:10] <fabbione> Mithrandir: did you find the oneliner for e2fsprogs?
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: previously, gvfs removed icons for unmounted devices
[12:10] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, and I added it too.
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: but now they stay around - try with your usb key
[12:10] <fabbione> Mithrandir: perfect thanks
[12:10] <seb128> pitti: it still does, no?
[12:10] <pitti> seb128: the icon offers to mount it after eject, but that fails
[12:11] <seb128> pitti: I've tried with a fat partition and a CD
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: fat partition on usb stick?
[12:11] <Mithrandir> bah, the build log isn't on p.u.c yet?
[12:11] <seb128> no, windows partition on my hdd
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: sure, these can't be ejected
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: the general idea of leaving the icons is nice
[12:11] <seb128> but when unmounted they are not listed
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: but eject clashes with this
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: I hope that only our patch causes this misbehaviour
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: I'll check this
[12:12] <seb128> k
[12:13] <ogra_> my broken DSL slowly starts to annoy me
[12:14] <ogra_> Mithrandir, ia32-libs-gtk needed to be reinstalled too
[12:15] <volvoguy> hey, will you guys beat me up if i ask a question about breezy's installer and my Canonical laptop? i'm getting anxious that i've had it almost two weeks with no success installing so far. 
[12:17] <Mithrandir> ogra_: hence my suspicion that something's eaten your /usr/lib32
[12:17] <ogra_> yup
[12:19] <ogra_> but it seems to work fine now...only some warnings on the console
[12:19] <ogra_> (soffice.bin.real:29760): Gdk-WARNING **: Error converting from UTF-8 to STRING: Conversion from character set 'UTF-8' to 'ISO-8859-1' is not supported
[12:20] <Mithrandir> ogra_: yeah, that's because access to gconv stuff isn't done Right.
[12:20] <seb128> mvo: your "Add/Remove programs" change is ugly :/
[12:22] <mvo> seb128: because it is in the root of the menu?
[12:25] <seb128> mvo: because it makes the menu twice larger than before here
[12:25] <seb128> mvo: depending on how scale the translation, but it's larger with .de or .en too
[12:25] <ogra> yes, its huge with .de
[12:27] <shawarma> I'm trying to track down a bug in X.org. It wasn't there in Hoary, but I don't know at which revision it started... Are the revisions between -10 and -50 availble somewhere somehow?
[12:28] <ogra> shawarma, that'd be a book....
[12:28] <ogra> shawarma, changelogs.ubuntu.com might help you
[12:30] <shawarma> ogra: What is that? It's not the /debian dir from the different package revisions, is it=
[12:30] <shawarma> ?
[12:30] <shawarma> No, the rules script is at least not there..
[12:31] <mvo> seb128, ogra: hm, what can we do? it looks ok on my english desktop
[12:31] <Diziet> Does anyone know who's been working on network-manager recently ?
[12:31] <mvo> Diziet: thom and then adam conrad IIRC
[12:31] <ogra> Diziet, err wasnt that you ?
[12:31] <daniels> Diziet: it got deferred to breezy+1
[12:32] <tseng> j^ has some nice work in his baz archive
[12:32] <Diziet> ogra: For a bit, yes, but not in the last couple of weeks.
[12:32] <ogra> ah
[12:32] <tseng> it would be good if someone could maybe throw that in
[12:32] <tseng> so we ship with something that at least runs
[12:32] <tseng> (thanks ian)
[12:32] <seb128> mvo: shame on you, non-english speaker should use translated version so we notice issues :)
[12:32] <seb128> mvo: not sure there is something to do, that's just ugly
[12:33] <Diziet> dan: Ahm.  There are some bugs in the bugzilla about the fact that it basically doesn't work.  Should I count those as low priority then ?
[12:33] <seb128> mvo: french version is 14 chars longer than any other entry
[12:34] <seb128> mvo: Add/Delete are short words in english but that's not the case for all the languages :/
[12:34] <daniels> Diziet: i believe they should be ignored for breezy, but check with mdz.
[12:35] <mvo> seb128: hm, yes
[12:35] <Diziet> dan: I see.  Where's the canonical location of this information ?  Surely these decisions should be written down somewhere ...
[12:36] <tseng> network-manager is still in universe, is there any chance we can upload j^'s packages?
[12:36] <tseng> (that work)
[12:36] <ogra> seb128, correct your language :p
[12:36] <shawarma> Hm.... There's no way to find e.g. a xorg 6.8.2-11 build?
[12:36] <Diziet> On BreezyGoals it's listed as FAILED.
[12:37] <daniels> shawarma: ... no, -11 has more or less been gone for ages.
[12:37] <Diziet> So I suppose that's good enough for me.
[12:37] <daniels> Diziet: yeah, I guess BreezyGoals.
[12:37] <shawarma> daniels: I see.
[12:38] <shawarma> daniels: I have a problem with the i810 driver in X.org in Breezy. Everything was fine in Hoary. I wanted to try to narrow down where it went wrong, so I wanted to find the incremental changes between the different revisions... There's no way to do that, is there?
[12:40] <ogra> pitti, i think there is more broken then only my ubuntu-meta upload.... the last build log is from 06:15 UTC this morning... i guess katie has a bad day...
[12:41] <daniels> shawarma: not really ... what's the problem?
[12:42] <shawarma> daniels: It SIGABRTs. Autodetection works fine, but as soon as it actually is going to start, if gives me a "*** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (fasttop): 0xblahblah" or something.
[12:43] <Diziet> Woah, weird.  I submitted additional comments to one bug and Bugzilla then shows me the next bug along !
[12:43] <shawarma> Diziet: That's what bugzilla does. they call it a feature.
[12:43] <shawarma> Diziet: PITA if you ask me.
[12:44] <Diziet> We already knew they're not on the same planet as the rest of us.  Oh well.
[12:44] <daniels> shawarma: i've heard of that happening, and may have the fix in hand.  can you please bounce me the full log (daniel.stone@ubuntu.com)?
[12:45] <shawarma> daniels: It's right here: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12716
[12:45] <shawarma> daniels: Complete with backtrace and everything. :-D
[12:46] <daniels> shawarma: excellente.  i'll ping you when I have new packages for you to try.
[12:50] <Mithrandir> hm, why isn't the testing stuff done more often than just daily?
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: is something like formatLength = snprintf(NULL, 0, "%%.%ds\n%%%ds", (int) (ch - help), indentLength); a valid way to count the chars which will go into the string?
[01:26] <Keybuk> whuuhhh?
[01:27] <Mithrandir> (it appears to _work_, but I wonder if it's legal)
[01:27] <Keybuk> you want to read something that is format %.999s\n%999s ?
[01:27] <Keybuk> or am I confused to buggery?
[01:27] <Mithrandir> I want to format the output of pkg-config's help
[01:27] <Keybuk> you're making a format string?
[01:27] <Mithrandir> yes
[01:27] <Keybuk> why not just use a positional parameter for the length?
[01:29] <Keybuk> printf ("%.*s\n%*s", (int)(ch - help), string, indentLength, otherString)
[01:29] <Keybuk> or whatever
[01:29] <Keybuk> * is "take the width of this from the next int argument"
[01:29] <Mithrandir> is that portable?
[01:29] <Keybuk> afaik.
[01:29] <Mithrandir> (this is pkg-config, so I care a bit about portability)
[01:30] <Keybuk> it's specified in K&R
[01:30] <Keybuk> it may not be portable pre-ANSI, but I've never cared about C that old
[01:30] <Mithrandir> well, I don't care about pre-ANSI, but I care about glibcisms, for instance.
[01:31] <Keybuk> it's certainly not a glibcism
[01:31] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks
[01:32] <Keybuk> I once got a bug (on dircproxy) that it didn't compile with a pre-ANSI C compiler
[01:32] <Mithrandir> I hope you laughed in response?
[01:33] <Keybuk> I closed it claiming that pre-ANSI compilers didn't count as C compilers
[01:33] <Mithrandir> yay, seems to work.  Thanks a lot.
[01:46] <pitti> hi carstenh 
[01:46] <carstenh> hi pitti 
[01:52] <franst> hi all
[01:52] <franst> anyone here can help me to mirror ubuntu repo to my server, the internet in this country is suck
[01:53] <carstenh> irc'ing as root does not make that much sense
[01:53] <ogra> carstenh, depends for whom ;)
[01:53] <franst> ok 
[01:53] <franst> how you know i am a root ???
[01:53] <carstenh> 13:52:09 -!- franst (root) [n=root@202.73.108.220]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:53] <siretart> franst: we know everything about you ;)
[01:53] <ogra> carstenh, the script kiddies love it if you do that ;)
[01:53] <franst> oh :P
[01:53] <franst> hehe sorry
[01:54] <franst> sorry
[01:54] <franst> i relogin :)
[01:54] <carstenh> :)
[01:54] <franst> i will back
[01:54] <siretart> isn't he cute ;)
[01:54] <ogra> heh
[01:56] <frans-th> hi all
[01:56] <frans-th> i am back
[01:56] <frans-th> again, can anyone help me to mirror ubuntu repo here?
[01:56] <frans-th> or am i in the wrong forum?
[01:57] <siretart> frans-th: whats exactly your problem? 
[01:58] <frans-th> my country internet is not good,
[01:58] <frans-th> i want to mirror all ubuntu repo, security, universe to my pc
[01:58] <frans-th> everytime i install ubuntu, need to connect to ubuntu server, that is slow and hurting here
[01:58] <frans-th> can help?
[01:58] <frans-th> right now i must waith for 8 hours or more for update of ubuntu
[01:59] <pvanhoof> frans-th, you know rsync?
[01:59] <carstenh> frans-th: i guess siretart wanted to hear something like "debmirror does not work because bla" oder "which tool do i have to use"
[01:59] <siretart> frans-th: err, archive.ubuntu.com is available over http, ftp and rsync. did you try setting up a mirror?
[01:59] <frans-th> i use ftp right now
[02:00] <frans-th> just copy the ftp to my server
[02:00] <frans-th> but still need confirmation from you
[02:00] <pvanhoof> frans-th, rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ /home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/
[02:00] <siretart> frans-th: ubuntu is free software. you don't need to ask for permission to mirror
[02:00] <ogra> apt-proxy would be an option too
[02:01] <siretart> frans-th: it is nice when you tell the ftp team that you host a reliable mirror in order to get listed on the websites
[02:01] <pvanhoof> I don't recommend this one: rsync --recursive --links --exclude=*installer-* --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu /home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/archive.ubuntu.com/
[02:01] <pvanhoof> it'll need huge amounts of diskspace :)
[02:02] <frans-th> anyway, i am a team in indonesia
[02:02] <siretart> frans-th: security updates aren't mirrored usually for obvious reasons..
[02:02] <frans-th> IGOS, Indonsia Goes Open Source
[02:02] <carstenh> pvanhoof: i could also partially mirror it, i.e. only i386 and amd64
[02:02] <siretart> cool
[02:02] <carstenh> s/i/you/
[02:02] <frans-th> i am the one that responsibility to manage the repo of open source esp debian here
[02:02] <frans-th> but i am fedora and new ubuntu user :(
[02:03] <frans-th> so i am in study to mirror the server
[02:03] <frans-th> our server will be under IIX, so only indoensian can access it faster
[02:03] <frans-th> pvanhoof: your rsycn syntact is error
[02:03] <frans-th> the rsycn said need spesific filename
[02:04] <pvanhoof> hmm, it does work for me
[02:04] <frans-th> frans@spirit:~/repo$ rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/
[02:04] <frans-th> receiving file list ... done
[02:04] <frans-th> client: nothing to do: perhaps you need to specify some filenames or the --recursive option?
[02:04] <frans-th> rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(723)
[02:04] <frans-th> frans@spirit:~/repo$
[02:04] <pvanhoof> btw, at this moment  rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ is using 31 GB for me
[02:04] <carstenh> wouldn't debmirror the right tool for this job?
[02:04] <ogra> yup
[02:04] <frans-th> 31 GB:) cool i have 100 GB totally
[02:04] <pvanhoof> frans-th, the --recursive is added 
[02:04] <frans-th> is debmirror is ok ?
[02:05] <siretart> carstenh: debmirror is great for partial mirrors. I understand frans-th wants a full mirror
[02:05] <pvanhoof> frans-th, note that rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu could become more than 100gb
[02:05] <carstenh> siretart: ok, i guess you are right
[02:05] <frans-th> what is the difference between archive ubuntu with debian repo? 
[02:06] <frans-th> 100GB :(
[02:06] <pvanhoof> frans-th, your rsync command that you pasted ..
[02:06] <siretart> frans-th: the name and the content. ah, yes the number of architectures and the size
[02:06] <pvanhoof> you didn't append the destination
[02:06] <lathiat> if you want to sync specific parts of ubuntu, use debmirror
[02:06] <pvanhoof> you omited the space
[02:06] <frans-th> siretart: ??? cannot understand
[02:06] <frans-th> what is difference between speciic part with rsync?
[02:06] <pvanhoof> frans@spirit:~/repo$ rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/ should be frans@spirit:~/repo$ rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases /home/mirror/ubuntu/public_html/releases.ubuntu.com/
[02:06] <daniels> is it wrong to start gdb under gdb to find out why it segfaults when you attach to Xorg?
[02:07] <siretart> frans-th: the layout is very similar between debian and ubuntu mirrors. we are both using the same archive software, called 'dak'
[02:07] <frans-th> pvanhoof: ?? space??
[02:07] <frans-th> dak???
[02:07] <frans-th> walah walah :(
[02:07] <frans-th> what is that?
[02:08] <pvanhoof> " "
[02:08] <siretart> frans-th: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/dak
[02:08] <frans-th> so, any tips for me for developing a good linux system for this country?
[02:08] <pvanhoof> daniels, gdb /usr/bin/gdb ; set args /usr/bin/gedit ; run, does work here :)
[02:09] <frans-th> anyway, right now here, i am using synaptic to ubuntu.com server..
[02:09] <frans-th> i see ubuntu team manage the upgrade right
[02:09] <pvanhoof> frans-th, do this.. (copy paste it)
[02:10] <pvanhoof> cd $HOME
[02:10] <frans-th> so, how to make if i am install the ubuntu again, this process can be not repeated again
[02:10] <pvanhoof> mkdir mirror
[02:10] <pvanhoof> cd mirror
[02:10] <pvanhoof> rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ .
[02:10] <pvanhoof> don't forget the last character, the "." character
rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ .</copypaste>
[02:10] <frans-th> receiving list file :P
[02:10] <pvanhoof> there you go
[02:10] <frans-th> how big is this?
[02:11] <pvanhoof> 31g
[02:11] <frans-th> 31g :)
[02:11] <frans-th> ok ok
[02:11] <pvanhoof> to get an update
[02:11] <pvanhoof> cd $HOME/mirror
[02:11] <pvanhoof> rsync --recursive --links --hard-links --times --verbose --compress --update rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ .
[02:11] <frans-th> finished?
[02:11] <pvanhoof> it will only fetch "the changes"
[02:11] <frans-th> how can it is fast
[02:11] <pvanhoof> no that's impossible
[02:11] <frans-th> igdo
[02:11] <frans-th> lrwxr-xr-x          35 2005/01/15 08:49:54 warty/warty-release-install-powerpc.list -> ../.pool/warty-install-powerpc.list
[02:11] <frans-th> lrwxr-xr-x          39 2005/01/15 08:49:54 warty/warty-release-install-powerpc.template -> ../.pool/warty-install-powerpc.template
[02:11] <frans-th> lrwxr-xr-x          28 2005/01/15 08:49:54 warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso -> ../.pool/warty-live-i386.iso
[02:11] <frans-th> -rw-r--r--       25943 2004/10/26 00:28:57 warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso.torrent
[02:11] <frans-th> sent 74 bytes  received 7194 bytes  440.48 bytes/sec
[02:11] <frans-th> total size is 10010263427  speedup is 1377306.47
[02:12] <frans-th> frans@spirit:~/repo$
[02:12] <frans-th> see
[02:12] <frans-th> finished.
[02:12] <pvanhoof> oh .. perhaps like this
[02:12] <frans-th> :P
[02:12] <pvanhoof> euh .. no
[02:12] <pvanhoof> you only received the symlinks
[02:12] <frans-th> so?
[02:12] <sivang> frans-th: where from?
[02:12] <frans-th> i am from indonesia, jakarta city
[02:12] <frans-th> why
[02:12] <frans-th> there is a debian mirror here, kuya.vlsm.org
[02:12] <frans-th> but no ubuntu :P
[02:13] <frans-th> but kuya server is not up to date :(
[02:14] <frans-th> pvanhoof? r u there
[02:14] <pvanhoof> frans-th, if I do exactly the same ,, I start receiving files in a directory ".pool/:
[02:14] <pvanhoof> ".pool/"
[02:14] <pvanhoof> warty/warty-release-live-i386.iso -> ../.pool/warty-live-i386.iso
[02:14] <pvanhoof> .htaccess
[02:14] <pvanhoof> .pool/MD5SUMS
[02:14] <frans-th> pvanhoof: you right, i got that too
[02:15] <frans-th> MOTD: Welcome to the rsync archive at Academic Computer Club, Ume\uffff University.
[02:15] <frans-th> receiving file list ... done
[02:15] <frans-th> drwxr-sr-x        8192 2005/08/23 19:08:00 .
[02:15] <frans-th> -rw-r--r--         348 2005/04/08 11:10:38 .htaccess
[02:15] <frans-th> drwxr-sr-x        8192 2005/05/12 18:41:17 .pool
[02:15] <frans-th> -rw-r--r--         787 2005/05/12 18:41:17 .pool/MD5SUMS
[02:15] <frans-th> -rw-r--r--         189 2005/05/12 18:41:34 .pool/MD5SUMS.gpg
[02:15] <frans-th> -rw-r--r--      192274 2005/04/07 23:40:20 .pool/ubuntu-5.04-dvd-amd64.list
[02:15] <frans-th> -rw-r--r--       23003 2005/04/07 12:35:57 .pool/ubuntu-5.04-dvd-amd64.manifest
[02:15] <frans-th> i copy and paste the end of the rsync
[02:15] <pvanhoof> no
[02:15] <pvanhoof> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl 
[02:15] <pvanhoof> use that
[02:15] <Mithrandir> frans-th, pvanhoof: can you please take this elsewhere, it's not related to the development of Ubuntu.
[02:15] <frans-th> anyway i am using ubuntu hoary here. how can there is a warty repo also
[02:16] <pvanhoof> frans-th, please ask on #ubuntu
[02:16] <frans-th> sorry
[02:16] <frans-th> i asked in the first chat, is this a right room.. i will move sorry
[02:16] <pvanhoof> ask for the instruction on getting a mirror of the repo using rsync
[02:17] <frans-th> :P
[02:17] <frans-th> ok ok
[02:19] <frans-th> pavnhoof?
[02:19] <frans-th> anyway is this forum for remastering ubuntu?
[02:23] <Mithrandir> frans-th: no.
[02:38] <\sh> seb128: firefox works again on kde
[02:38] <\sh> seb128: thx for the patc
[02:38] <\sh> h
[02:38] <seb128> np
[02:40] <elmo> grr, who broke dak
[02:41] <ogra_> YAY elmo !
[02:44] <ogra_> elmo, katie somehow swallowed a ubuntu-meta upload this morning for me... (0.67)
[02:44] <infinity> ogra_ : Shh, he knows.
[02:44] <infinity> elmo : mdz wasn't confident enough to fix the overrides, so he left it for you.  Not sure who broke them in the first place. :)
[02:45] <ogra_> oh, i'll shut up then...
[02:49] <\sh> elmo: if u r on the overrides...please let "njam" go through :) thx :)
[02:49] <elmo> njam        | 1.21-0ubuntu1 | source | 1 hour old
[02:49] <elmo> please don't harass me about stuff that's hours old
[02:49] <\sh> elmo: no i don't :) 
[02:50] <elmo> \sh: no, seriously, you are.  I don't care how well intentioned it is.  but by asking, you're taking up my time by forcing me to look to see if I missed it
[02:50] <\sh> elmo: if this was the case..I'
[02:50] <\sh> m sorry about that..that was not the intention...
[02:50] <elmo> infinity/whoever: for the record if a package is killing jennifer, it's pretty much always going to be safe to just move the package out of the way
[02:51] <\sh> infinity: wxwidgets2.6 looks like there is something wrong with the pango lib
[02:51] <\sh> and gwydion-dylan is a beast
[02:52] <infinity> elmo : Ahh, mdz's diagnosis wasn't clear enough to point at a package being at fault, he seemed to think it was an override issue.
[02:52] <pitti> hi again
[02:53] <lathiat> oops
[02:53] <infinity> pitti : Congrats.
[02:54] <pitti> well, it's up again (obviously, I have network :-) )
[02:54] <infinity> \sh : Hold off on wxwidgets, we can revisit it later.  Getting the gwydion mess sorted would be pretty fabulous, though.
[02:55] <\sh> infinity: I'm compiling it now in a chroot jail because it has problems with those nasty shlibs
[03:00] <infinity> elmo : Will the queues and wanna-build return to sanity after the :03 run?
[03:01] <elmo> infinity: yes
[03:01] <elmo> or at least I assume so, I'm going to wait and see before I head into the office
[03:03] <infinity> \sh : While you're worrying about transitions, BTW, anything in universe that depends on libcairo1 needs to be rebuilt for libcairo2.
[03:03] <\sh> elmo: please send me your snailmail address :) thx :)
[03:03] <Mithrandir> infinity: seb128 asked people to hold off stuff a little bit, I think?
[03:03] <infinity> \sh : Most of those are straight rebuilds with no actual changes, so they should be simple, though there may be a lot of them.
[03:03] <infinity> Mithrandir : ... He did?
[03:04] <\sh> infinity: yeah...I will push it to motu..and take some...I hope i have next week some kind of network at the training hotel
[03:04] <infinity> Mithrandir : I finished main for seb... Not sure what we'd be waiting on now.
[03:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: when/what did I asked?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> uhm, that was on Saturday; just ignore me.
[03:04] <seb128> I replied on the list to the guys who listed most of the pile of package I uploaded with doko's tools for rebuild
[03:04] <Mithrandir> ahkay
[03:05] <seb128> but package which are not been updated have to be fixed
[03:05] <infinity> Ahh, mister impatient.  Yes, I remember him. :)
[03:05] <seb128> I wonder why the rdepends didn't list everything
[03:05] <infinity> seb128 : After the next successful cron.daily, main is (finally) finished.
[03:05] <seb128> thanks infinity
[03:05] <infinity> seb128 : Was just waiting on a few binary builds on powerpc.
[03:06] <infinity> And for a brief moment, ubuntu-desktop should be installable on all 3 release arches again.
[03:06] <infinity> I wonder how long that will last this time.
[03:08] <infinity> seb128 : Yes, well, "stares at everyone" is a les confrontational way of saying "stares at seb128"
[03:08] <infinity> s/les/less/
[03:08] <seb128> ;)
[03:09] <Diziet> Damn.  gs-esp 7.07.1-9ubuntu4 doesn't compile on sarge and my two breezy installs are still downloading updates ...
[03:09] <sivang> seb128: do you have any special setup for being able to run gnomemeeting from the chroot ?
[03:09] <seb128> I don't use chroot
[03:10] <seb128> why do you need a chroot?
[03:10] <sivang> seb128: work's machine, can't have breezy on it, and it's busy doing other stuff as well :)
[03:10] <\sh> sivang: dchroot -c breeyz -d ?
[03:10] <slomo> elmo: can you remove gcl from dep-wait for ppc? was just a temporary problem with the postinst script of tetex-bin which works in my pbuilder chroot
[03:10] <\sh> it uses your X server for displaying X clients
[03:10] <sivang> \sh: ?
[03:11] <infinity> slomo : That request should be aimed at me.
[03:11] <sivang> \sh: can you please install gnomemeeting inside your dchroot if you have one, and tell me how to overcome the gconf problem?
[03:11] <\sh> sivang: hmmm...
[03:11] <sivang> \sh: :)
[03:12] <slomo> infinity: oh, sorry :/ can you please do it then? :)
[03:12] <seb128> sivang: you just have to register a schemas file, that's trivial
[03:12] <infinity> slomo : For the record, it wasn't dep-waited, just plain failed.  It'll build after the next successful cron.daily (which should be pretty soon)
[03:12] <seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 --install-schema-file
[03:12] <sivang> seb128: why didn't the pgk insitallation of gnomemeeting take care of this?
[03:13] <slomo> infinity: sorry again ;) then i'll just wait... thanks anyway
[03:13] <\sh> sivang: working for me in chroot
[03:14] <seb128> sivang: it does
[03:14] <sivang> seb128: then I wonder why it doesn't happen to me on my dchroot...grumpf
[03:15] <sivang> seb128: should I use the schema file from the source pkg, or take the one from the pkg cache?
[03:15] <seb128> ls /usr/share/gconf/schemas ...
[03:22] <Diziet> Wurghle!  gcc is printing garbage in its warning messages.  ./src/zfdecode.c: In function <crap>    etc.
[03:27] <\sh> pitti: where r u living?
[03:28] <pitti> \sh: Dresden, at a point without DSL
[03:28] <\sh> wow...
[03:28] <pitti> we have the world's most modern telephone network, you know...
[03:28] <\sh> because your ip goes through pironet-ndh cologne
[03:28] <pitti> that's why I can't get DSL here
[03:28] <tseng> anyone know something about new dell servers and hoary?
[03:29] <\sh> pitti: that's not true :) 
[03:29] <tseng> perc 4 raid controller seems unrecognized
[03:29] <pitti> \sh: for me it is WLAN -> 5 GHz beam -> ethernet -> SDSL
[03:29] <\sh> pitti: the hardware is a bit more expensive for dsl over fiber
[03:29] <\sh> VST2Home connection i mean ,-)
[03:30] <pitti> Morning otavio 
[03:35] <pitti> Moin jbailey_ 
[03:35] <jbailey_> Moin, Martin
[03:41] <Diziet> `./src/gxicolor.c:120: warning: M-bM-^@M-^XvdiM-bM-^@M-^Y may be used uninitialized in this function'.  Nice compiler.  Time for a bug report.
[03:48] <pvanhoof> we need Canonical employees for assisting a responsible of the Indonesian government getting to set up a mirror in their country.
[03:49] <pvanhoof> one of the major problems is bandwidth
[03:49] <pvanhoof> well, international bandwidth
[03:49] <pvanhoof> it would be nice to get them a disc with some initial packages for hoary and warty, and let them (with limited bandwidth) rsync updates
[03:49] <pvanhoof> who should the responsible contact for this?
[03:50] <daniels> mmm, they really do have absolutely no international bandwidth
[03:51] <paulproteus> They have 56 kilobits per second.
[03:51] <apokryphos> speedy
[03:51] <Diziet> I'm reminded again why I should package up magicmirror.
[03:51] <Diziet> I don't think that's enough to maintain a mirror, is it ?
[03:51] <apokryphos> But national bandwidth they can get isn't too bad. 100 megabits/sec
[03:51] <pvanhoof> daniels, indeed. Their national bandwidth is good enough (I'm assuming)
[03:51] <paulproteus> In fact, there is more international bandwidth available, but the government is only allocating this much to the project.  (National telco, blah blah.)
[03:51] <daniels> pvanhoof: itr's not great, but it actually works
[03:52] <pvanhoof> anyway, I think the solution is to send them a disc with initial packages (perhaps a preinstalled harddisk or a server)
[03:52] <paulproteus> It wouldn't be enough to maintain a live-updated mirror of non-released distros (i.e., breezy currently), but released distros can be bootstrapped by CD/DVD and then they could rsync updates with little trouble.
[03:52] <pvanhoof> and let them (with limited bandwidth -56k-) rsync the updates of only hoary and warty (and when breezy is released, also breezy)
[03:53] <pvanhoof> frans-th all: my email is frans@intercitra.com ...
[03:53] <pvanhoof> :p
[03:53] <apokryphos> ta-da
[03:53] <frans-th> hi there, i hear that indonesian case mention here
[03:53] <frans-th> :)
[03:54] <pvanhoof> frans-th, yes well .. contact the people at canonical and explain the situation (in detail)
[03:55] <frans-th> are they here?
[03:55] <pvanhoof> some might be here, but it's better to contact them by email
[03:55] <frans-th> i think this room is not for mirror chat :) 
[03:55] <pvanhoof> no it's not, indeed
[03:55] <frans-th> i did email them, to info@canonical.com
[03:55] <tseng> info@ will be routed properly
[03:55] <frans-th> ok :) i did email them
[03:56] <frans-th> i think i just wait they reply, and of course the DVD for mirror :)
[03:56] <thoreauputic> does canonical have access to indonesian speakers? I would facilitate things it seems to me...
[03:56] <thoreauputic> s/I/it
[03:56] <frans-th> if finished, i think the promotion will star, and hopefully the others island will copy not only the hoary installer or live cd ,but the mirror.
[03:57] <frans-th> no one every promote that there is a mirror CD
[03:57] <pvanhoof> try the gnome translator project :)
[03:57] <frans-th> thoreau: indonesian speaker:_ 
[03:59] <frans-th> r u there, or am i disc?
[03:59] <thoreauputic> no we see you frans-th  :)
[03:59] <frans-th> hehe, last time disc without reason
[03:59] <frans-th> anyway. 
[04:00] <frans-th> i will in this chat room tomorrow..
[04:00] <pvanhoof> Bangalore, isn't that a city in indonesia?
[04:00] <frans-th> must make  proposal :) for my life...
[04:00] <pvanhoof> (just wondering :p)
[04:00] <frans-th> bangalore in india, 
[04:00] <thoreauputic> pvanhoof: india :)
[04:00] <pvanhoof> aha :)
[04:00] <frans-th> indonesia is far from there, near singapore..
[04:01] <frans-th> near malaysia, in north of australia
[04:01] <frans-th> you can go to bali :) the cool island :) 
[04:01] <pvanhoof> ok
[04:01] <thoreauputic> frans-th: :)
[04:02] <pvanhoof> ah yes, Ic. it's the islands above australia
[04:02] <frans-th> if you visit jakarta, will be shock, crowded :)
[04:02] <pvanhoof> don't you guys get bandwidth from australia? :)
[04:02] <frans-th> :) alot australian there :)
[04:02] <frans-th> but in jakarta.
[04:02] <thoreauputic> pvanhoof: Indonesia has one of the largest populations on earth :)
[04:02] <frans-th> there is a bandwidht from australia, but of course expensive..
[04:02] <doko> seb128: libcairo2-dev should depend on libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev
[04:03] <pvanhoof> yeah, it's the country I always try to capture first when playing RISC
[04:03] <frans-th> indonesia have 250 millions citizen, 22 million sinternet user, :) less linux, and 90% pirating windows :P
[04:03] <pvanhoof> :p
[04:03] <doko> seb128: ahh, no better libglitz-glx1-dev
[04:03] <frans-th> but sun microsystems love indonesia, their product Java is our island.
[04:03] <seb128> doko: why?
[04:04] <seb128> doko: it depends on libglitz1-dev
[04:04] <frans-th> ok, all, thxfor the chat, i will back tomorrow, must go..
[04:04] <thoreauputic> see you frans-th :)
[04:04] <frans-th> i think i will prepare the PC for mirror, i will update later
[04:04] <frans-th> i think i cannot do anything just waith canonical send the mirror CD.. 
[04:04] <frans-th> but my question will they?
[04:05] <doko> seb128: but libglitz1-dev doesn't depend on libglitz-glx1-dev
[04:05] <Mithrandir> frans-th: your questions are not appropriate for this channel; this channel is about ubuntu development.
[04:05] <pvanhoof> frans-th, they will answer
[04:07] <doko> but libglitz-glx1-dev depends on libglitz1-dev
[04:07] <paulproteus> Are there any developers around who know the current state of the multiseat udeb/package, or its future in Breezy?  It seems to be basically a stub in Hoary.  If testers are wanted, I can sign up.
[04:07] <thoreauputic> Mithrandir: that's true - but he desperately needs help for his country and it seems reasonable to seek contacts with canonical employees
[04:07] <apokryphos> Mithrandir: another LoTR fan; great to see. :p
[04:07] <fabbione> paulproteus: you are welcome to take over the source and keep developing it
[04:07] <daniels> frans-th: saya berbahasa indonesia ... sedikit.  kalau anda menulis surat ke pada info@canonical.com, surat ke pada anda ada dituils.
[04:07] <daniels> frans-th: er, 'ditulis'
[04:07] <frans-th> :) hehe thx
[04:07] <Mithrandir> thoreauputic: there are canonical people in #ubuntu, and mailing info@canonical is just fine.  Going completely offtopic about other stuff in here is not.
[04:07] <frans-th> daniels: i did email them
[04:08] <daniels> frans-th: cool
[04:08] <thoreauputic> Mithrandir: OK 
[04:08] <pitti> mvo: you broke my hal-device-manager!!!
[04:08] <Mithrandir> thoreauputic: there's enough traffic in here with just on-topic stuff, and all the chatter makes it hard to do real development.
[04:08] <thoreauputic> Mithrandir: pont taken
[04:09] <thoreauputic> point*
[04:09] <seb128> doko: why should it Depends on libglitz-glx1-dev ?
[04:09] <mvo> pitti: I did?
[04:09] <paulproteus> fabbione: Well, I was hoping there was already someone else doing some development on it, that's all. :)
[04:09] <doko> because it has glitz support compiled in?
[04:09] <fabbione> paulproteus: not anymore..
[04:10] <seb128> doko: and libglitz1-dev doesn't do the job?
[04:10] <pitti> seb128: cool, after a few bug fixes, gnome-vfs works really cool and well :)
[04:10] <doko> no, not for opengl support
[04:10] <seb128> pitti: you rock :)
[04:10] <thoreauputic> Mithrandir: I hardly ever speak out in here - I think the priorities for Ubuntu are always human - but I will not say any more about it
[04:10] <frans-th> ok, bye all, thx for tthe time, will update soon
[04:10] <seb128> doko: cairo.pc doesn't Depends on glitz-glx
[04:11] <Mithrandir> daniels: do you have any idea about 13587?  I think it may be xprint-related and in that case, it's not our bug.
[04:11] <doko> hmm, so if I want cairo for glx, I have to add the b-d for every package ... 
[04:12] <seb128> doko: I'm not sure than forcing glx from cairo is the thing to do
[04:12] <seb128> you can build without glx
[04:12] <seb128> so technically that's not a Depends
[04:14] <seb128> hey jordi
[04:16] <mvo> pitti: seems to work fine here?
[04:16] <mvo> ping jdub 
[04:16] <daniels> Mithrandir: hard to tell
[04:17] <daniels> doko: you don't want to force the glitz backend for cairo
[04:17] <daniels> doko: if we have our whole desktop gl-rendered -- which means lots and lots of clients -- you'll get a deadlock in a couple of minutes on every desktop
[04:17] <mvo> pitti: please update your liblaunchpad-integration
[04:17] <daniels> doko: so if you do it, I'll have to kill you
[04:18] <janimo> daniels, any idea if/when xorg-driver-synaptics is going to be updated to 0.14.X as the xfree86 package was?
[04:18] <doko> daniels: OOo2 requires cairo and glitz, there's currently no way without glitz
[04:18] <seb128> doko: glitz or glitz-glx ?
[04:19] <doko> glitz-glx
[04:19] <mjg59> daniels is right. The DRI drivers just aren't robust enough.
[04:19] <doko> (if we enable that at all)
[04:19] <daniels> doko: no way without glitz?!?!??!?!
[04:19] <daniels> WHAT CRACK ARE THE SMOKING
[04:19] <mjg59> Try running two copies of glxgears simultaneously on i810
[04:19] <daniels> I WOULD LIKE FOUR
[04:19] <mjg59> Watch deadlock occur in ~5 seconds
[04:19] <doko> daniels: yes, but without cairo as well
[04:20] <daniels> doko: wtf?
[04:20] <doko> it's just the presentation module ...
[04:20] <daniels> mjg59: actually, it doesn't seem to deadlock here
[04:20] <mjg59> daniels: Oh, that's fun. Maybe it's just i915 hardware.
[04:21] <mjg59> Or maybe it was glmatrix, or something. I was able to reproducibly kill i915 with two clients, but I can't remember /which/ two clients
[04:21] <mjg59> daniels: Oh, linuxwacom upstream have rotation support now. It ought to be buildable against the modular tree, I guess
[04:22] <mjg59> Unless it does stupid shit, in which case I'll have to fix it
[04:24] <daniels> mjg59: that's next on my list to look at
[04:30] <pitti> brb
[04:42] <elmo> \sh: err
[04:42] <elmo> njam: executable-not-elf-or-script /usr/share/njam/levels/readme.txt
[04:42] <elmo> \sh: why are you overriding that rather than just fixing it?
[04:43] <\sh> grmpf...I missed that one...
[04:43] <\sh> and 4 other reviewers as well..*sigh*
[04:43] <janimo> \sh, do you have to specify the manpage name explicitely?
[04:43] <ogra> \sh, missed while overriding ? 
[04:43] <ogra> heh
[04:44] <\sh> ogra: I created the package how many months ago? and now I fixed some stuff on it :)
[04:44] <ogra> ;)
[04:44] <\sh> ogra: and copy & paste and repeat is nice on a dir list ,-)
[04:45] <janimo> \sh does the desktop description stil say cross-plattform clode? instead of cross-platform clone
[04:46] <\sh> not anymore
[04:47] <\sh> janimo: siretart.tauware.de/revu/ we need some good eyes 
[04:47] <janimo> \sh also the manpage question above?
[04:47] <janimo> I actually looked at the package today and spotted the overrides too but wasn't able to login and leave comments (my fault)
[04:48] <janimo> \sh btw I need some good eyes on xubuntu-meta on revu ;)
[04:48] <janeW> ajmitch: ping
[04:49] <\sh> janimo: janimo what do u mean with "do you have to specify the manpage name explicitely?" I create the manpage out of the sgml source
[04:49] <janeW> ajmitch: what's the status of SELinux? Implemented or deferred?
[04:49] <janimo> I mean there's a man file under debian
[04:49] <janeW> mvo: ping
[04:49] <janimo> whereas dh_installman should just guess the name of it 
[04:49] <tseng> janeW: deferred
[04:49] <janimo> if it's just one binary package generated
[04:49] <tseng> janeW: for selinux
[04:49] <janeW> mvo: CDRomAuthentication.  Implemented or deferred?
[04:49] <janeW> tseng: ok thanks
[04:49] <janimo> so is there a need for explicitly naming it
[04:50] <\sh> janimo: no...the njam.1 was accidently there...I removed it because it's generated from sgml
[04:50] <janimo> ah ok 
[04:51] <\sh> elmo: can I redo the upload without source now, or should I re-sourceupload?
[04:51] <janeW> mjg59: ping
[04:51] <mjg59> janeW: Hi
[04:51] <janeW> mjg59: hello.
[04:51] <janimo> \sh is there a ned for the file njam.manpages I meant?
[04:52] <janimo> s/ned/need/
[04:52] <mvo> janeW: implemented but not in the archive yet
[04:52] <janimo> if it's only one manpage called the same as the binary package
[04:52] <janeW> mjg59: is anyone coordinating the laptop testing?
[04:52] <elmo> \sh: i accepted the version you uploaded, it wasn't enough to reject, you can just do an ubuntu2 whenever
[04:52] <mjg59> janeW: Yeah
[04:52] <infinity> \sh : If a -sa upload was rejected, you need to do another -sa.
[04:52] <mjg59> janeW: (me)
[04:52] <janeW> mjg59: i.e. do you need any help with thyat?
[04:52] <infinity> \sh : Oh, but elmo didn't reject it, so don't listen to me. :)
[04:52] <\sh> elmo: thx :)
[04:52] <mvo> janeW: I'll make sure it either enters today or gets deferred 
[04:52] <mjg59> janeW: Uhm. That would possibly be helpful.
[04:53] <\sh> elmo: I owe u a couple of beers :) 
[04:53] <janeW> mvo: ok thanks - any chance you can do the wiki update before the TB later?
[04:53] <mjg59> janeW: Somebody really needs to be able to collate the data into a useful format before the release
[04:53] <mvo> janeW: I will do that
[04:53] <janeW> mjg59: I am a little swamped with these goal updates, but could you possibly send me a mail explaining what's in progress and I can check and update etc for you?
[04:54] <janeW> mjg59: I could probably help you with that...
[04:54] <janeW> mjg59: can we chat tomorrow?
[04:54] <janeW> mjg59: I guess this is one goal that is still WIP, and is justified as such - right?
[04:54] <janimo> elmo, any policy on syncing from debian experimental? mutt-ng would be nice to have in breezy universe
[04:54] <mjg59> janeW: Ok, no problem
[04:54] <mjg59> janeW: Yeah
[04:55] <elmo> janimo: universe policies are basically up to the MOTMOTU, but AFAIK there's nothing against syncing from experimental
[04:55] <janimo> elmo, can you lease sync mutt-ng then?thanks
[04:56] <\sh> hmmm...
[04:56] <\sh> mutt is in main, right?
[04:57] <janeW> what's happened to dholbach  - I haven;t seen him here recently...
[04:57] <mvo> \sh: mutt-ng is a fork (seperate source package)
[04:57] <janeW> seb128: ping
[04:57] <janeW> seb128: current status of GnomePanelEnhancements ? Isn't that implemented now?
[04:57] <mvo> janeW: moving
[04:57] <\sh> mvo: I know :) I'm using it from experimental
[04:57] <janimo> \sh mutt-ng is another package
[04:57] <\sh> janeW: I will visit him on the 3rd in berlin his new home
[04:57] <mvo> \sh: you use it? is it good?
[04:58] <\sh> mvo: different..i like the imap cache stuff and also the sidebar for the imap folders
[04:58] <janimo> I am interested in the nntp support
[04:58] <\sh> janimo: nntp? use slrn ,-)
[04:59] <sivang> seb128: grr, I installed all the schems and still gnomemeeting won't run.
[04:59] <janimo> it's nicer in the same app
[04:59] <\sh> mvo: but mutt has also some new patches for sidebars and stuff
[04:59] <\sh> mvo: i think they will "backport" some patches from mutt-ng
[04:59] <janimo> \sh manpage question above ;)
[04:59] <\sh> janimo: fixed :)
[04:59] <janeW> mvo \sh: oh dear...
[04:59] <janimo> \sh ok thanks
[05:00] <janeW> does anybody know the status of ExpandingUniverse & GraphicalPartitioningTool? They need to move off WIP...
[05:00] <ogra> janeW, ExpandingUniverse is hopefully never finished... at least thats our target
[05:00] <\sh> janeW: ogra
[05:01] <janeW> ogra: mdz doesn't like that answer... we tried that ;)
[05:01] <janeW> doko: ping
[05:01] <\sh> ogra: how many motus we have now?
[05:01] <ogra> janeW, but thats what the spec says
[05:01] <mvo> janeW: I can call dholbach if it's urgent. he won't have net access until tomorrow/thursday 
[05:01] <ogra> janeW, its misplaced at the goals page, i say that since the release cycle began
[05:01] <\sh> mvo: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/61-Back-to-the-90s.html
[05:01] <janeW> mvo: I just need to know if those 2 goals are considered implemented, or if they (or parts of them) need to be deferred...
[05:02] <janeW> ogra: is it not linked to the breezy cycle?
[05:02] <doko> janeW: pong
[05:02] <ogra> janeW, nope
[05:02] <mvo> janeW: I'll give him a call
[05:02] <ogra> janeW, expanding universe means that we try to get more packages in in every release
[05:02] <janeW> doko: hello - we need to address your WIP goals before the TB meeting later, and decide if they are implemented or deferred (or both)
[05:03] <janeW> ogra: ok, is what needs to be done now done?
[05:03] <janeW> ogra: because then we can can it implemented - for these purposes
[05:03] <doko> janeW: ok
[05:03] <seb128> janeW: I've updated the wiki yesterday evening for that, that didn't work?
[05:03] <ogra> janeW, if you only refer to the tools with that, mvo and dholbach wrote some tools to import www.apt-get.org packages into universe... this part is done definately
[05:03] <janeW> doko: sorry to nag but Matt wants them all off WIP 
[05:03] <seb128> sivang: you just have to install the gnomemeeting one
[05:04] <doko> janeW: no problem
[05:05] <janeW> doko: thank you, do you know what to do if something is as done as it;s going to get, but there are parts deferred?
[05:05] <janeW> seb128: sorry I was looking at an unrefreshed tab - apologies and thanks
[05:06] <seb128> janeW: np :)
[05:06] <Diziet> I've been investigating a bug the bugzilla has assigned to me (13771) and, as it goes, it Works For Me.  The symptoms the submitter describes don't occur on my own breezy system.  What state should I leave the bug in ?
[05:06] <janeW> Riddell-1wa: ping
[05:06] <Diziet> For comparison: If it were a Debian BTS report I would probably mail the submitter and expect to close the bug soon.
[05:06] <doko> janew: please enlighten me
[05:07] <seb128> Diziet: the bug has useful comments and backtrace of the issue I would let it open
[05:07] <mvo> janeW: have him on the phone. GraficalPartitionTool was part of ubuntu-express and that is deferred IIRC
[05:07] <janeW> doko: what we are doing when as much of a goal has been implemented as is going to be, we move it to green, and then add a line in the deferred table detailing the section that didn't get done and isn't going to be done now...
[05:08] <ogra> mvo, is it ? 
[05:08] <mitsuhiko> sorry for asking here, but whom can I ask for a very quick order of ubuntu cd's?
[05:08] <sivang> janeW: when is the tb meeting on?
[05:08] <janeW> mvo: oic, ok, and expandinguniverse, as done as it's going to be for now?
[05:08] <mvo> ogra: according to breezy goals page 
[05:08] <janeW> sivang: 20:00 UTC
[05:08] <ogra> mvo, the mails sent from the spanish guys to -devel sound different
[05:08] <ogra> mvo, i agree with the goals page :)
[05:09] <sivang> seb128: I did sudo gconftool-2 --install-schema-file /usr/share/gconf/schemas/gnomemeeting.schemas, and it seemed like it installed a ton of stuff. still no go
[05:09] <janeW> infinity: PIng
[05:09] <janeW> infinity: the SoundEvents goals needs to be updates before the TB at 20:00UTC please.
[05:09] <ogra> mjg59, sorry, i didnt notify you yet, power-manager is deferred... its too network-manager like... i cant make the arch work easy with our implementation...
[05:10] <seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 -R /apps/gnomemeeting is still empty?
[05:11] <Diziet> Argh, that's nice.  Bugzilla can have races when you submit comments too and gives you invidious choices when it happens.
[05:11] <ogra> mjg59, i.e. the only possibility to make commands work is via the system wide running power-manager in the dbus backend... you cant easily make this talk to the users session... and hughsies implementation requires even that it runs suid root
[05:11] <mvo> janeW: ExpandingUniverse is something in between according to daniel. we wrote a script that fetches everything from apt-get.org and tries to build it. but all the packages need review from MOTUs and that will take time until the release. Matt is aware of that.
[05:11] <mjg59> ogra: Ok. Knowing this earlier would have been helpful.
[05:11] <mjg59> ogra: I'll look at the situation today
[05:11] <janeW> mvo: I made it 'implemented' should I put it back to WIP?
[05:11] <mjg59> ogra: Is the latest code in the archive?
[05:11] <ogra> mjg59, sorry, i spent the whole weekend on it..
[05:12] <ogra> mjg59, yup
[05:12] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, thanks
[05:12] <sivang> seb128: no, it has a bunch of stuff now
[05:12] <mvo> janeW: probably not, I guess there is enough done to justify "implemented"
[05:12] <janeW> mvo: good
[05:12] <ogra> mjg59, imho former versions without all the dbus front/backend separation would rather have worked, but they had no other functionallity since the code wasnt mature enough
[05:13] <mjg59> ogra: What user is the back-end running as? Surely it should be root anyway?
[05:13] <seb128> sivang: and you still have the same error ?
[05:13] <ogra> mjg59, root
[05:13] <janeW> ogra: can we add a line to the edubuntu notes, so Matt can see where it is?
[05:13] <sivang> seb128: yes
[05:13] <mjg59> ogra: Right. So why does it need to talk to the user's session?
[05:14] <ogra> JaneW, edubuntu-desktop only waits for a last pitti review of python-sqlite, then this one is done... foe edubuntu server some reviews are pending and the changes to moodle will be done this week... edubuntu artwork is nearly done...
[05:14] <infinity> JaneW : Oh, joy.
[05:14] <seb128> sivang: and the key from the error has what value ?
[05:14] <JaneW> I'll come back at 19:30 UTC or so, to follow up. Thanks for the updates all.
[05:14] <seb128> sivang: rm .gconf/apps/gnomemeeting/, maybe it wrote some wrong value becaue you didn't have the schema
[05:14] <JaneW> infinity: thought you;d like that ;)
[05:15] <JaneW> ogra: I'll put that in thanks
[05:15] <JaneW> ogra: any idea when we can justify it as implemented?
[05:15] <ogra> mjg59, i can either run the pm-scripts hughsie planned suid root or i can rewrite the frontend to talk to gdm to call the gdm functions... the latter is my preferred way, but doesnt work with this architectire
[05:16] <mjg59> ogra: We don't need to call the pm scripts - we can use pmi
[05:16] <ogra> mjg59, which still would require some kind of suid stuff
[05:16] <mjg59> ogra: Why? It'll be run sa root by the backend, surely?
[05:16] <ogra> yes
[05:16] <mjg59> So why does it need to be suid?
[05:17] <ogra> because else pmi doesnt work 
[05:17] <mjg59> pmi needs to be run as root
[05:17] <mjg59> The backend is running as root
[05:17] <ogra> you have to call it as root
[05:17] <mjg59> What's the issue here?
[05:17] <ogra> try it...
[05:17] <mjg59> ogra: No, *tell me what the problem is*
[05:18] <ogra> just running as root doesnt seem enough...
[05:18] <doko> seb128: is there a reason, why libglitz-glx1-dev is not in main?
[05:18] <mjg59> (Sorry, that sounded far harsher than I meant it to)
[05:18] <mjg59> ogra: That suggests that something else is broken
[05:18] <mjg59> But there's no inherent architectural problem here
[05:19] <ogra> mjg59, imho there is...
[05:19] <seb128> doko: not seeded, no Depends on it I guess
[05:19] <daniels> doko: from a stability point of view, I'd much rather OpenOffice didn't use Cairo at all, rather than using GL
[05:19] <mjg59> ogra: We need to run a command as root. That command should be run by the backend. The backend is running as root.
[05:19] <tseng> is the amd64-xeon kernel smp?
[05:19] <ogra> mjg59, the right way to implement it secure would be to handle this stuff in the frontend and use the gdm implementation from gnome-session
[05:19] <mjg59> There may be an implementation issue, but architecturally we have all the parts we need
[05:19] <mjg59> ogra: No - we already depend on these scripts being runnable as root
[05:20] <infinity> tseng : I'm pretty sure it is, yes.
[05:20] <mjg59> Unless your concern is that the backend may not be sufficiently secure
[05:20] <tseng> infinity: great, thanks.
[05:20] <infinity> tseng : Under the assumption that no one owns only one Xeon.
[05:20] <ogra> mjg59, i'll look into it again, but i dont think its right as it is
[05:20] <mjg59> ogra: Ok. I'll play with it now
[05:20] <mjg59> ogra: Oh, it has missing build-depends by the looks of it...
[05:20] <tseng> infinity: it would be fairly hard to find a UP box I think.
[05:21] <ogra> mjg59, gnome-power-manager ? 
[05:21] <mjg59> (Or, at least, insufficiently tight - it's complaining about a missing dbus-binding-tool"
[05:21] <mjg59> Yeah
[05:21] <ogra> mjg59, and power-manager ? 
[05:21] <ogra> mjg59, not gnome-power
[05:21] <ogra> they are different packages
[05:22] <mjg59> ogra: gnome-power-manager is the frontend and power-manager the backend?
[05:22] <ogra> yup
[05:22] <mjg59> ogra: Should they be out of sync, version-wise?
[05:22] <ogra> nope
[05:22] <mjg59> Well, they seem to be. Hang on, let me recheck.
[05:22] <ogra> i only packaged one version of the,
[05:22] <ogra> them
[05:23] <mjg59> Power-manager seems to be 0.1.1. gnome-power-manager seems to be 0.1.2
[05:23] <ogra> yup
[05:23] <mjg59> That's correct?
[05:23] <ogra> yup
[05:23] <mjg59> So they should be out of sync? :)
[05:24] <ogra> power-manager only has had one release and will die with hal 0.5.4 according to highsie
[05:24] <mjg59> Ok
[05:24] <mjg59> Which we're not getting, right?
[05:24] <ogra> not for breezy... 
[05:25] <ogra> its not released upstream yet
[05:25] <mjg59> Ok
[05:26] <wasabi_> heh my hoary cds arrived last night
[05:26] <mjg59> Uhm. Which package should dbus-binding-tool be in?
[05:27] <chrissturm> wasabi, today cdt 3.0 for eclipse was released. did you see it?
[05:27] <ogra> its a build dependency of gnome-power-manager... wait, i'll look it up
[05:28] <ogra> mjg59, dbus-1-utils,
[05:28] <mjg59> ogra: That should be a versioned build-depends
[05:29] <mjg59> Needs to be >=0.35 by the looks of it
[05:29] <ogra> we only have dbus 0.35
[05:29] <ogra> its a breezy package...
[05:30] <mjg59> ogra: build-dependencies should prevent the package being built on a setup where that building will fail
[05:30] <seb128> we had 0.32
[05:30] <seb128> some people may still have it installed
[05:30] <ogra> seb128, i packaged it after dbus was 0.35
[05:30] <wasabi_> great
[05:30] <wasabi_> cnn.com now freezes firefox
[05:30] <seb128> and? some people have not upgraded for weeks
[05:30] <wasabi_> and epiphany refuses to open
[05:30] <seb128> the Build-Depends have to reflect what is required
[05:31] <ogra> seb128, i try to avoid versioned depends where i can... but ok
[05:31] <seb128> what is wrong to version correctly?
[05:31] <mjg59> ogra: Consider the case where someone wants to build the package on something other than Breezy
[05:32] <mjg59> ogra: Thanks
[05:37] <lathiat> 9/whois cvd
[05:37] <lathiat> bah
[05:37] <mjg59> ogra: gnome-power-dbus-test --doNACK
[05:37] <mjg59> Testing NACK with monitor
[05:37] <mjg59> Caught remote method exception net.sf.GnomePower.Error: Unknown method name 'ActionRegister' on interface 'net.sf.GnomePower'
[05:38] <ogra> mjg59, power-manager is installed ? 
[05:38] <ogra> and works ? 
[05:38] <mjg59> power-manager is installed, but does not appear to work
[05:38] <mjg59> (it's certainly not running)
[05:38] <ogra> hmpf
[05:38] <ogra> works here
[05:39] <ogra> ps ax|grep Power ?
[05:39] <ogra> should give you /usr/sbin/PowerManager
[05:39] <mjg59> Oh, no, sorry, it is running
[05:40] <mjg59> But gnome-power-dbus-test doesn't work
[05:40] <ogra> it relies on working pm-scripts, you get the error if they arent there
[05:40] <mjg59> ?
[05:40] <mjg59> That's, uh, crack.
[05:40] <mjg59> Right.
[05:40] <ogra> look at the source package of power-manager
[05:40] <ogra> there are example scripts
[05:40] <mjg59> (If it needs something, why is it not expressed as a dependency?)
[05:41] <ogra> what we'd have to do would be to write a script that calls pmi hibernate... 
[05:41] <ogra> because thats the part thats up to us to write... and the part that has to run suid root
[05:41] <mjg59> ogra: Why does it have to run suid root? It's run by a program that's running as root.
[05:41] <ogra> and the part that made me refuse and defaer it
[05:43] <ogra> create a script called /usr/sbin/pm-suspend that calls pmi suspend, make it suid root, it will work... thats the arch hughsie built for redhat... if i dont make it suid root, it doesnt work...and i get the same error you get with your dbus test
[05:43] <mjg59> ogra: You can't make scripts suid
[05:43] <mjg59> It doesn't work
[05:44] <mjg59> Linux ignores the suid bit on scripts
[05:44] <ogra> but PowerManager apparently not
[05:44] <mjg59> All it does is g_spawn_command_line_async (path, NULL)
[05:45] <Diziet> Dammit, that fb driver problem has affected my actual install and not just the boot media, now.
[05:45] <mjg59> Diziet: fb driver problem?
[05:45] <Diziet> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12849
[05:46] <mjg59> Ah, ok. Yes, that's a usplash bug. I'll upload a fixed one later.
[05:46] <\sh> guys...who is responsible now for shipit? 
[05:48] <pitti> \sh: marilize and maybe still mako
[05:48] <Diziet> Just before the display vanishes it prints  [hex numbers]  somethinglisted   (I only get to see it for a fraction of a second.)
[05:49] <\sh> pitti: there r some guys who need at least 200 ubuntu cds for linuxinberlin event
[05:49] <Diziet> This bug must have been introduced for me during the last two weeks.
[05:49] <mjg59> Diziet: Easiest workaround for now is to remove usplash and rebuild initramfs
[05:49] <mjg59> ogra: Error: The name net.sf.GnomePower was not provided by any .service files
[05:50] <ogra> mjg59, its in the PowerManager services file
[05:50] <\sh> pitti: and shipit doesn't respond...8.9. it's starting
[05:50] <Diziet> Damn, and now I've let it resume my Debian install and I'll have to hibernate it again.
[05:50] <mjg59> ogra: Oh, sorry, hadn't restarted gnome-power-manager
[05:50] <Diziet> In fact, it seems to have contrived to make my Debian install not resume !
[05:50] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, having fixed it to refer to pmi rather than the pm-scripts, I still get that error from gnome-power-dbus-test
[05:51] <ogra> mjg59, it works here as i described above...
[05:51] <mjg59> ogra: In what way?
[05:52] <Diziet> Bugger.
[05:52] <mjg59> ogra: Setting the suid bit on pmi makes no difference
[05:53] <mitsuhiko> \sh: shipit never responded to any of my requests
[05:54] <ogra> create a pm-shutdown script that calls /usr/sbin/halt, make it suid root (yes i know....) and your system shuts down if you select the option from the context menu in the trayicon
[05:54] <mjg59> ogra: As far as I can tell, there's no part of the code that does anything to check whether a script is suid or not (which is a good thing)
[05:54] <mjg59> ogra: I've removed all references to pm-sutdown
[05:55] <mjg59> "A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file"
[05:55] <mjg59> ?
[05:55] <\sh> mvo: ping...can u call dholbach and ask him if he has some hoary x86 cds as spare left?
[05:55] <mjg59> ogra: A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file
[05:55] <mvo> \sh: pong
[05:56] <\sh> s/can/could/ :)
[05:56] <ogra> mjg59, as i said, that disappears if you make the script sui root (yes... i know...)
[05:56] <mjg59> ogra: No it doesn't
[05:56] <ogra> it does here
[05:56] <mjg59> ogra: The script is suid
[05:57] <ogra> if i create a pm-shutdown script here, that simply calls halt, i can shut down my system with the context menu from the trayicon
[05:58] <mitsuhiko> arr. why do i write memos...
[05:59] <\sh> mitsuhiko: ist schon gut...er wird angerufen und wir fragen nach
[06:00] <mjg59> ogra: I suspect an issue with PowerManager's dbus policy script
[06:00] <ogra> mjg59, might be, but t works here the described way
[06:02] <ogra> mjg59, i simply dont think its right as it is... 
[06:02] <ogra> mjg59, thats why i set it to deferred
[06:02] <mjg59> ogra: Yes, it plainly doesn't work at the moment. But the reasons you've given make no sense.
[06:02] <ogra> mjg59, every user will be able to run PowerCmd shutdown from the commandline
[06:02] <mjg59> ?
[06:03] <mjg59> It *doesn't require suid scripts*
[06:03] <ogra> err PowerManagerCmd
[06:03] <mjg59> Yes.
[06:03] <ogra> mjg59, it only works if the scripts are suid root here... it doesnt if not...
[06:03] <mjg59> Except they can't at the moment, because the security policy appears to be wrong
[06:04] <Diziet> mjg: I don't think this is a usplash bug.  It happens before the normal scrool of bootup messages.
[06:05] <mjg59> Diziet: It's a usplash bug. As a result of it, initramfs loads vga16fb on boot.
[06:05] <mjg59> It's in the package, not the binary
[06:05] <ogra> mjg59, i can tell only what i observed... and that was the reason for me to set it to deferred
[06:05] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, I'm working on it
[06:05] <Diziet> mjg: Right.
[06:06] <ogra> mjg59, additionally i dont think the separation into session and system service is right... we should just have a tool that calls the gdm functions *in* the users session without requiring any system service
[06:07] <mdz_> morning
[06:07] <mdz_> pitti: here?
[06:07] <Diziet> mdz: Hello.
[06:08] <mdz_> Diziet: welcome!
[06:09] <Diziet> Thanks.  At last !
[06:09] <Diziet> mjg: OK, I give up.  _How_ do I rebuild my initramfs ?
[06:10] <mvo> good monring mdz_ 
[06:10] <ogra> hi mdz_ 
[06:10] <mdz_> ogra,JaneW: ExpandingUniverse had specific goals for the breezy cycle, including bringing in apt-get.org
[06:11] <jbailey> Diziet: Do you have a running system?
[06:11] <Diziet> jb: Yes.  I have network access (ssh) to it right now.  I can't see the console.
[06:11] <ogra> mdz_, ok, then its implemented... mvo and dholbach developed the infrastructure
[06:11] <Diziet> mdz: I've been sorting stuff out here and working on a few of the bugs that the bugzilla has for me.  Many of them are to do with networkmanager, which AIUI has been postponed ?
[06:11] <jbailey> Diziet: Cool, so as root, just run "mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)"
[06:11] <Diziet> I found mkinitramfs but I really need a script to provide the rune.
[06:11] <Diziet> script> or you, apparently :-).
[06:11] <jbailey> I serve where I may. =)
[06:12] <mdz_> Diziet: networkmanager didn't make it
[06:12] <Diziet> Mmm.  Sorry I wasn't able to get further with it.
[06:12] <Diziet> Well, it produced no output and we'll see what it does now ...
[06:12] <mdz_> we have a better understanding of where it needs to go for breezy+1 now at least
[06:13] <Diziet> jb,mjg: Thanks, that has solved that problem for the moment.
[06:13] <mdz_> and it will get attention early in the release cycle and go in early next time
[06:13] <pitti> mdz_: Morning; yes
[06:13] <mdz_> Diziet: do you have your hardware sorted?
[06:13] <mjg59> How can I get a list of currently running interfaces on dbus?
[06:13] <Diziet> Well, I thought so but I just updated it earlier today and now it doesn't work any more :-/.
[06:13] <mdz_> pitti: will you roll new language-support-* to remove the oo.o-dictionaries deps?
[06:13] <Diziet> Coo, now X doesn't start.
[06:14] <ogra> Diziet, with what error
[06:14] <ogra> (we are all well trained for X breakage now ;) )
[06:14] <pitti> mdz_: yes, I can do this
[06:14] <pitti> mdz_: 10 minutes?
[06:14] <Diziet> `Failed to start the X server' and a mangled dialog prompt asking me whether I want to see the error message, all splashed over the top of the text-mode login screen.
[06:15] <mdz_> pitti: that would be good
[06:15] <ogra> Diziet, and if you say yes there and scroll down ? 
[06:15] <Diziet> I can't say yes because getty is getting my keystrokes.
[06:15] <Diziet> I'm looking in /var/log now.
[06:15] <mvo> mdz_: do you have time for some talking about apt?
[06:15] <ogra> sounds like a xkb issue
[06:16] <Diziet> My xkb was broken and I (perhaps foolishly) tried to fix my keymap.
[06:16] <Diziet> (Using the pontyclicky xkb ui in gnome)
[06:16] <daniels> ... how ... did you try to fix your xkb?
[06:16] <daniels> bounce me an xorg.conf and an xorg.0.log and I'll have a look
[06:16] <ogra> Diziet, tried sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg ? 
[06:16] <Diziet> If I say `Xorg' from the command-line it works.
[06:17] <ogra> Diziet, do you have a xorg.conf in your home dir ?  i was struck by this on the weekend, it seems to read that
[06:17] <ogra> daniels, btw, is that intentional ?  ^^
[06:17] <daniels> ogra: yes
[06:17] <ogra> ouch
[06:17] <Diziet> gdm/:0.log contains the line  /etc/X11/X is not executable  and nothing else.
[06:18] <janimo> daniels, should I file a bug on updating xorg-driver-synaptics to the same version that was supported by xfree86-driver-synaptics?
[06:18] <daniels> Diziet: /usr/bin/X11 probably isn't a symlink to /usr/bin.  you'll want to make it so.
[06:18] <Diziet> Xorg seems to have moved to ...    err, wot ?
[06:18] <daniels> janimo: it's ok, I'll get to it
[06:18] <ogra> daniels, i happen to store my nv config from my laptop on my desktop (mga) i had some funny hours finding out about the glu eroors that suddenly appeared
[06:18] <Diziet> Indeed it isn't.
[06:18] <janimo> daniles, so no bugreport then, thanks
[06:18] <Diziet> What was supposed to sort that out ?
[06:18] <daniels> Diziet: xorg is /usr/bin/Xorg, and /etc/X11/X is a symlink to /usr/bin/X11/Xorg.  /usr/bin/X11 should be a symlink to /usr/bin.
[06:19] <daniels> Diziet: x-common, but apparently the logic there needs to be in postinst rather than preinst.
[06:19] <Diziet> /usr/bin/X11 is a directory, here.
[06:19] <Diziet> postinst rather than preinst> Really ?
[06:19] <daniels> right.  should be a symlink to /us/rbin.
[06:19] <daniels> well, so I'm told.
[06:20] <Diziet> You mean it should be in the preinst instead of the postinst.
[06:20] <daniels> it *is* in the preinst.
[06:20] <Diziet> The x-common I have here has no preinst.
[06:20] <mdz_> mvo: ok
[06:21] <Diziet> 1.05
[06:21] <daniels> Diziet: no, it got moved to postinst.  blah.
[06:21] <Diziet> I'm looking at that code now and it looks right.
[06:22] <pitti> doko: if myspell doesn't work with ooo2, then we should actually drop all myspell-lang packages, not just the ones which are built from ooo-dictionaries, right?
[06:22] <Diziet> Perhaps dpkg removed the link because it thinks it's an empty directory.
[06:22] <Diziet> Is there a bug report about this problem ?
[06:23] <daniels> Diziet: not yet, no
[06:23] <Diziet> I'll investigate and file one.
[06:23] <infinity> Erm, if it's in postinst, it should be working fine... Unless there's no file there at all, and the symlink isn't being created in that case.
[06:23] <infinity> Which would be a bug.
[06:23] <infinity> Wait...
[06:23] <infinity> daniels : Do you also SHIP a symlink in the package, or just create it in postinst?... For the postinst trick to work, you also need ot ship it.
[06:24] <daniels> appears to be shipped
[06:24] <doko> pitti: why doesn't it work?
[06:24] <seb128> elmo: goffice libgsf xicc syncs please (I got approval from mdz)
[06:24] <infinity> (So, the way it works is that dpkg refuses to replace a directory with a symlink, then you blow it away and create it... But subsequent upgrades just get the symlink from the package)
[06:24] <Diziet> I reinstalled x-common and that fixed it.
[06:24] <daniels> yeah, the symlink's shipped as well
[06:24] <infinity> daniels : Fun.
[06:24] <pitti> doko: dunno, when mdz asked whether openoffice.org-dictionaries works with ooo.2, you said no
[06:25] <infinity> I should look at all these directoy<-> symlink transitions again before we do the preview release.
[06:25] <mdke> does anyone know if there is a more comprehensive list of current metapackages than on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MetaPackages ? 
[06:25] <infinity> Can someone file a bug about that and assign it to me? :)
[06:25] <doko> pitti: the hypenation patterns ...
[06:26] <Diziet> inf: Surely that should result in a failed install, not an apparently successful one with a wrong answer ?
[06:26] <pitti> doko: ok, so ooo.2 still uses myspell and *can* use the packages generated by ooo-dictionaries?
[06:26] <pitti> doko: in that case we should leave ooo-dicts in main, right?
[06:26] <doko> pitti: the myspell-de: yes.
[06:26] <Diziet> inf: look again> I think that's the right answer.  I can't reproduce the bug.
[06:27] <Diziet> Should I file it anyway ?
[06:27] <pitti> mdz_: ok, then it doesn't really make sense to throw out myspell-*, since they still work
[06:27] <Diziet> Damn, and my XKB bug has gone away too.
[06:28] <Diziet> I hate these things that vanish when you look at them.
[06:28] <mdz_> Diziet: sounds like a good time to do some upgrade testing
[06:28] <pitti> Diziet: welcome to the Heisenbug :-)
[06:28] <Diziet> These were all in upgrades from Colony 2, which is probably less than helpful overall.
[06:28] <infinity> Diziet : Don't file a bug about your specific issue if you can't reproduce it, but a general "look at all the X directory<->symlink migration stuff and make sure it's sane before preview release" bug assigned to adconrad@ would be nice.
[06:29] <Diziet> inf: OK.
[06:30] <infinity> Diziet : And yes, a variety of things have been buggered ina variety of ways (including breakage in those migrations) in the life of breezy.  We'll support hoary->breezy upgrades, and probably everything from Colony3 to Final, but I doubt anyone will put much effort into supporting upgrades from breezy installations oldr than Colony3.
[06:30] <Diziet> Quite so.
[06:33] <pitti> jbailey: any eta for the glibc upload, so that the new langpack patch can be tested more widely?
[06:34] <jbailey> pitti: Right, I was trying to ping you on the weekend.  I don't have an email from you with the patch yet.
[06:34] <jbailey> pitti: Sorry, had slipped my mind when I saw you online yesterday.
[06:34] <pitti> jbailey: I put it into the bts
[06:34] <pitti> jbailey: no worries, it's not that urgent; I was just curious :-)
[06:34] <pitti> jbailey: #11344, you are in CC
[06:35] <jbailey> pitti: Oh, it's not assigned to me, so I didn't see it in my search.
[06:35] <mdz_> pitti: doko said that they didn't work
[06:36] <jbailey> pitti: Does this replace the current dpatch file, or is it in addition to?
[06:36] <doko> mdz_, pitti: preparing a new upload only building the myspell packages
[06:36] <pitti> mdz_: right, the hyphenation packages don't, but the myspell ones do
[06:36] <pitti> mdz_: I elmininated the hyphenation dependencies in l-s a while ago
[06:36] <pitti> jbailey: replaces
[06:37] <pitti> jbailey: I know, they look entirely different, but without timestamp comparison, it can be done in a much more sane way
[06:37] <jbailey> pitti: =)
[06:39] <mdz_> doko: if we need to keep the package anyway, I see no benefit in crippling it
[06:39] <mjg59> Ok, that's working better.
[06:39] <ogra> mjg59, got it  ? 
[06:39] <mjg59> ogra: Well, the daemon
[06:40] <ogra> mjg59, working with pmi ? 
[06:41] <mjg59> Yes
[06:41] <ogra> wow
[06:41] <mjg59> Now I just need to figure out why g-p-m won't work
[06:42] <lathiat> acpid needs to realise when the power is unplugged
[06:42] <lathiat> while your asleep
[06:42] <mjg59> lathiat: It should do so now
[06:42] <lathiat> mjg59: oh nice
[06:42] <mjg59> (in Breezy)
[06:42] <lathiat> thats always pissed me off
[06:43] <doko> mdz_: licence problems, i.e. GPL, relicensed by somebody as LGPL, at least for the german hyphenation patterns
[06:47] <mdz_> doko: aren't they just data anyway?
[06:48] <doko> mdz_: does this matter for the license?
[06:49] <mdz_> doko: LGPL vs. GPL doesn't seem different for data
[06:51] <infinity> Man, are we going to get rid of this ugly Xscreesaver unlock dialog before preview release?
[06:51] <lathiat> i heard someone say no at some point
[06:51] <ogra> infinity, depends if mdz considers it a feture
[06:51] <lathiat> i wish we would
[06:51] <lathiat> the hoary one was so nice
[06:51] <lathiat> it was so pretty
[06:51] <infinity> I'm indifferent about the hoary one, but it was certainly less ugly than the default upstream one.
[06:52] <doko> mdz_: are hyphenation patterns written in/for LaTeX code or data? I don't know ...
[06:53] <ogra> infinity, lathiat the one i have here is even more pretty, but there was a decision for gnome-screensaver that was reverted later i'm unsure what to do now...
[06:53] <lathiat> ogra: well, while gnome-screensaver is nice
[06:53] <lathiat> if my disk is being hammered, it should not take 25 seconds to display the unlock dialog
[06:54] <infinity> ogra : Talk really fast, and pray that mdz sees the lack of prettiness as a regression worth fixing, I guess.  And test your local patch A LOT to make sure it's not broken before you beg to have it allowed in.
[06:55] <infinity> Oh Christ, it's 2:55am.. Where does the time go?
[06:55] <lathiat> if only it was daniels, you could just say "ooh its shiny" and it would go in
[06:56] <infinity> Now now, we're not shipping luminocity or anything.
[06:56] <daniels> hah.
[06:56] <daniels> infinity: (that's what you think.)
[06:56] <mjg59> ogra: Dude, these packages could never have worked together
[06:56] <mjg59> One defines PM_DBUS_PATH as "/PMObject" and one as "/net/sf/PowerManager"
[06:56] <lathiat> ok i updated hal and it restarted dbus
[06:56] <lathiat> i thought we werent doing that anymore
[06:56] <ogra> mjg59, which one does what ? 
[06:57] <lathiat> this somehow also made metacity crash
[06:57] <pitti> lathiat: one last time
[06:57] <ogra> mjg59, the latter is right
[06:57] <pitti> lathiat: the last restart is caused by the *old* hal version that still restarted
[06:57] <mdz_> ogra: how intrusive are the changes?
[06:57] <mdz_> ogra: can't we revert to the one we had in hoary?
[06:57] <pitti> lathiat: yes, it breaks gnome-vfs2
[06:57] <mjg59> ogra: I'll upload fixed versions now
[06:57] <lathiat> pitti: hrm, ok
[06:57] <mjg59> ogra: power-manager has the wrong one
[06:57] <ogra> mdz_, nope... this one makes xscreensaver ftbfs
[06:57] <ogra> mjg59, thats bad
[06:58] <ogra> mdz_, due to the changes jwz and debian made
[06:58] <mdz_> ogra: how intrusive are the changes for your new dialog?
[06:58] <ogra> mdz_, the new one is a reimplementation of the hoary one with some changes..
[06:59] <mdz_> ogra: if you will fix xscreensaver to only blank on LTSP clients first, it's OK with me
[06:59] <ogra> mdz_, not more then the hoary ones, i.e. changing fonts to xft and re-adding xpm functionallity jwz ripped out
[07:00] <ogra> mdz_, why must that be on ltsp ? the screensavers work fine for me on ltsp ...
[07:00] <mdz_> ogra: they consume massive amounts of network bandwidth
[07:00] <ogra> oh, ok... 
[07:00] <mdz_> ogra: if the LTSP_CLIENT environment variable is set, it should blank instead
[07:00] <ogra> (i only test with one client here ENOHW)
[07:01] <mdz_> ogra: even with one client it maxes out the client's port for me
[07:01] <ogra> ok, i'll look into it how hard that is to implement, i'l mail you at least tomorrow 
[07:01] <mdz_> we default to some pretty heavy screensavers
[07:01] <ogra> yup
[07:01] <infinity> That's an understatement.
[07:02] <ogra> mdz_, my client has a 1GB network card and is my amd64 laptop ... its not really underpowered ;)
[07:02] <infinity> It's not a quesiton of power.
[07:02] <infinity> Drawing screensavers over the network is just plain DUMB.
[07:03] <ogra> infinity, sure... a question of network power...
[07:03] <infinity> "Hi, we have 50 clients with the screen locked, doing nothing, but somehow our switched GigE network is maxed."
[07:03] <mdz_> I use my laptop for testing, and it maxes out a 100mbit network port (and that still isn't enough to get more than a few fps in a GL screensaver)
[07:03] <daniels> i think they should all do local rendering using mesa's xlib target
[07:03] <daniels> none of this indirect rendering crap.  do it all client-side and just blit the raw pixels over the network.
[07:04] <shaya> hi, I just did a fresh install of breezy, and when I run emacs I get
[07:04] <shaya> spotter@dent:~$ emacs
[07:04] <shaya> Undefined color: "black"
[07:04] <shaya> mean anything to anyone?
[07:04] <daniels> shaya: sudo apt-get install xrgb
[07:04] <shaya> :)
[07:04] <daniels> on that note, I'm going to bed
[07:04] <infinity> Oh, I guess I don't have to.
[07:05] <ogra> urgh, xrgb is separate too  
[07:05] <ogra> ?
[07:05] <shaya> thanks
[07:05] <shaya> hmm
[07:05] <shaya> too late
[07:05] <shaya> seems like I have to restart X to get this to work
[07:05] <shaya> hmph
[07:06] <lamont-away> hrm.. how long ago did apt get tilde-support - clear back before woody released?
[07:07] <ogra> lamont-away, woody ? 
[07:07] <madduck> clear back?
[07:07] <madduck> lamont-away: it was added while apt in sarge was frozen.
[07:07] <mdz_> lamont-away: no
[07:08] <mdz_> madduck: no it wasn't; it's in sarge
[07:08] <fabbione> mdz: i did merge 1.1.1 in the kernel. it's an ABI change as i predicted. If that's ok with you and BenC i can do the dance tomorrow
[07:08] <mdz_> it was added in 0.5.5
[07:08] <lamont-away> mdz_: but certainly not woody.  gotcha
[07:08] <mdz_> and fixed up in later versions
[07:08] <madduck> Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:15:33 +0200 Wichert Akkerman <wichert@deephackmode.org>
[07:09] <fabbione> BenC: otherwise you can do it as you prefer
[07:09] <mdz_> fabbione: I need working CDs before we churn again
[07:09] <madduck> you're right.
[07:09] <fabbione> mdz_: ETA?
[07:09] <mdz_> fabbione: are the livefs builds working?
[07:09] <fabbione> mdz_: i have no power to check.. no idea
[07:09] <mdz_> fabbione: yesterday's CDs had a kernel mismatch between d-i and the livefs due to the abi change and desktop being uninstallable
[07:10] <mdz_> so they were broken
[07:10] <fabbione> d-i has been updated..
[07:10] <fabbione> did elmo process it?
[07:10] <mdz_> fabbione: sure you do; you set up an rsync job to have the latest live CD images on hand right? :-P
[07:10] <mdz_> looks like it is still failing, at least it is out of date
[07:10] <mdz_> fabbione: the installer was updated, but the livefs build failed.  not an elmo thing
[07:11] <fabbione> mdz_: ok, but can we see what fails to fix it?
[07:11] <mdz_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[07:11] <mdz_>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: contact-lookup-applet but it is not going to be installed
[07:11] <mdz_>   ubuntu-live: Depends: language-support-en but it is not going to be installed
[07:11] <mdz_> E: Broken packages
[07:11] <mdz_> I pasted it last night before I crashed
[07:11] <fabbione> mdz_: i don't read backlogs that go over my scroll buffer..
[07:12] <mdz_> I asked several times for the livefs build logs to be published with the package build logs, but I don't think it has happened
[07:12] <fabbione> mdz_: ok.. i guess we will wait for the ABI change, but we can't wait too long
[07:13] <fabbione> mdz_: that thing needs to go in
[07:13] <infinity> seb128's currently churning the archive (again) with GNOME uploads.
[07:13] <infinity> That makes -desktop generally unhappy for days. :/
[07:13] <mjg59> Woo
[07:13] <ogra> mjg59, success ? 
[07:13] <mdz_> it looks like desktop is installable now, but not language-support-*
[07:13] <ogra> YAY !!!!!
[07:13] <mdz_> elmo: I moved that back into main yesterday to try to fix this
[07:14] <elmo> mdz: say what?
[07:14] <infinity> Oh, indeed.
[07:14] <mdz_> elmo: openoffice.org-dictionaries went main->universe->main
[07:14] <mdz_> madison currently admits that myspell-en-gb is in main, but it seems to be missing from Packages
[07:15] <mdz_> oh, interesting, because the file is missing from the pool
[07:15] <elmo> aiee
[07:15] <elmo> and it's the only one too
[07:16] <mdz_> doko is going to upload a new version anyway
[07:16] <mdz_> doko: ETA for that?
[07:16] <doko> 30 minutes
[07:18] <elmo> what the fcuk is going on
[07:20] <mjg59> ogra: I'll upload later this evening
[07:20] <ogra> mjg59, ok...
[07:21] <ogra> mjg59, i'll have to add a call for the screensaver properties...
[07:21] <ogra> mjg59, anything else UI wise thats missing ? 
[07:22] <infinity> ogra : Are we talking about the "Power Preferences" capplet here?
[07:22] <ogra> infinity, yup
[07:22] <ogra> infinity, gnome-power-manager
[07:22] <ogra> infinity, mjg59 just saved it from getting deferred
[07:22] <infinity> ogra : It seems to be missing (from the Windows world) actions for "low battery" and "critical battery" (with options to raise alarms, sleep/hibernate the system, etc)
[07:22] <elmo> mdz: dude, this deb isn't even in the morgue - I've never seen dak lose a file like this before
[07:23] <elmo> did you teri it last night?
[07:23] <ogra> infinity, are we talking about the same thing ? 
[07:23] <ogra> infinity, thats exactly what gnome-power-manger adds 
[07:23] <mdz_> elmo: yeah, I probably fat-fingered removing the symlinks or something
[07:23] <mdz_> since it had already moved once
[07:23] <infinity> ogra : Oh, then I'm looking at something more useless. :)
[07:23] <infinity> ogra : Let me find this g-p-m and run it.
[07:24] <infinity> Oh, it doesn't actually run.  Right.  I'll have to look at it after mjg59 fixes it.
[07:24] <ogra> infinity, gnome-power-manger and power-manager, not the older gnome-power (if its still there, i asked almo for removal)
[07:24] <ogra> elmo even
[07:25] <infinity> ogra : Yeah, I was looking at "gnome-power-preferences", since that's the capplet I have in my menus.
[07:25] <infinity> ogra : My bad.
[07:26] <infinity> ogra : You probably need a smooth upgrade path to both remove gnome-power and migrate any reusable settings over.
[07:26] <ogra> infinity, most likely you still run the old one... 
[07:26] <ogra> infinity, gnome-power wasnt functional at all... 
[07:26] <infinity> Oh, it was just pretty, but didn't do anything?
[07:26] <ogra> yup
[07:27] <infinity> Cool.  Then no migration required.
[07:27] <ogra> heh
[07:27] <infinity> Lucky you.
[07:27] <ogra> lol
[07:28] <ogra> it was completely redesigned between the two releases ...
[07:29] <ogra> mjg59, i think we should supress the installation of PowerManagerCmd so only a logged in desktop user can actually shut down the machine... it doesnt feel right to have a commandline option that enables *every* user to shut down the machine...
[07:30] <mdz_> ogra: what is the final word on power management configuration?  it is late
[07:30] <infinity> We already allow anyone to shut down the machine from GDM without logging in.
[07:31] <ogra> mdz_, i already added it to deferred since i couldnt get it working... mjg59 just fixed it... so it might go to implemented finally...
[07:31] <mdz_> mjg59: ?
[07:31] <mdz_> it depends on how intrusive the changes are
[07:32] <ogra> its two parts, similar arch to network manager
[07:32] <mdz_> oh god
[07:32] <ogra> yup
[07:32] <infinity> But not nearly as vile and intrusive.
[07:32] <infinity> For obvious reasons.
[07:32] <ogra> session based frontend+gui and a system based daemon listening on debis for commands from the frondend
[07:33] <ogra> d-bus
[07:33] <ogra> sorry
[07:34] <pitti> sleep well, infinity 
[07:34] <ogra> night infinity 
[07:35] <infinity> Oh, pitti's here.  That reminds me.
[07:35] <pitti> infinity: what's up? will it hurt?
[07:35] <infinity> pitti : I didn't tear PCRE out of apach2 until 2.0.53.  That means warty's apache2 needs an update for those PCRE vulns.
[07:36] <pitti> infinity: oh, great
[07:36] <pitti> infinity: ok, thanks for the reminder
[07:36] <sean__> is it alright to idle in heree?  wouldnt mind seeing the behind the scenes ;) 
[07:36] <infinity> NP.  I knew something was nagging at the back of my mind.
[07:37] <ogra> sean__, sure
[07:37] <sean__> thanks :)
[07:41] <infinity> Wow, reading old changelogs is embarassing.
[07:41] <infinity> apache2 (2.0.53-5ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low
[07:41] <infinity>   * Remove /etc/apache2/conf.d/charset on purge. 
[07:41] <infinity> apache2 (2.0.53-5ubuntu2) hoary; urgency=low
[07:41] <infinity>   * Really remove /etc/apache2/conf.d/charset on purge, rather than just writing about it in the changelog. 
[07:41] <infinity> And now, bed for real.
[07:41] <infinity> pitti : If you don't have time for that update, ping me and I'll do it in the morning.  Otherwise, have fun.
[07:41] <\sh> grmpf
[07:41] <\sh> i need a switch
[07:41] <\sh> or a linksys wrt54G
[07:41] <\sh> infinity: shortly..what about cairo trans?
[07:42] <\sh> I counted about 50 packages (no sort on universe or main now) 
[07:42] <infinity> \sh : All of main is transitioned.  Anything in universe depending on libcairo1 is fair game (check first to see if it's already been uploaded, but is FTBFS)
[07:43] <infinity> \sh : Try to keep dependency ordering sane, so you don't have to do excessive uploads to get it right, but most packages should just be upload-and-forget.
[07:43] <\sh> infinity: sure...I will prepare everything..so I can move it towards motu meeting tomorrow..
[07:44] <ogra> \sh, are we through with the slang2 stuff in universe ? i somehow lost the overview for this one
[07:44] <infinity> \sh : Fantastic.  This should be a top priority for you guys, since libcairo1 is completely dropped from the archive, so anything depending on it is uninstallible.
[07:44] <\sh> ogra: also not
[07:44] <ogra> *sigh*
[07:45] <\sh> we have to split up groups...dude :)
[07:45] <ogra> yep
[07:45] <infinity> ogra, \sh : If anything in the slang2 transition is waiting on action from me (rebuilds, etc), let me know.
[07:45] <ogra> and stop fiddling with all the NEW stuff... 
[07:45] <ogra> (as i preach since weeks)
[07:46] <\sh> ogra: i'm working as well on gwzdion-dylan
[07:46] <\sh> aeh
[07:46] <\sh> -z+y
[07:46] <\sh> it takes hours to compile 
[07:46] <\sh> and I hope i fixed now the damn shlibdeps
[07:46] <\sh> completly borked
[07:47] <infinity> \sh : You do use ccache, right?
[07:47] <\sh> infinity: no...
[07:47] <infinity> You really should.
[07:48] <\sh> infinity: during my holidays i will try to get a nice desktop station here...i'm really annoyed working with this laptop
[07:48] <mxpxpod> ogra: are you working on gnome-power for ubuntu?
[07:48] <ogra> mxpxpod, mjg59 just took over
[07:49] <mxpxpod> ogra: thanks
[07:50] <ogra> mxpxpod, at least for the backend integration... package stuff and UI and the other unimportant things might still be mine...
[07:50] <ogra> :)
[07:51] <mxpxpod> ogra: heh, I'll talk to mjg59 
[07:51] <mxpxpod> I'm wondering if I'll still need pbbuttonsd after we get gnome-power working correctly
[07:52] <ogra> oh, yes, thats rather a mjg59 question, but i guess yes...
[07:52] <mxpxpod> man, I hate pbbuttonsd
[07:52] <mxpxpod> whenever I reboot, it uses 100% cpu until I restart pbbuttonsd
[07:52] <ogra> gnome-power is only a frontend to the powermanagement already in place
[07:53] <Mithrandir> mdz_: do you know the reason for Colin's testing scripts just being run in the morning?
[07:53] <ogra> its rather generic, the backend is still distro specific
[07:54] <mxpxpod> ogra: I think the thing about pbbuttonsd that bugs me the most is that it does all the other stuff besides powermanagement
[07:55] <adriyel> hey guys, I need some help
[07:55] <ogra> doko, could it be that your temporary ooo2 amd64 package touched /usr/lib32 anyhow ? (#13986)
[07:55] <adriyel> I run Ubuntu amd64, Athlon3500, and a GeForce 6800GT
[07:55] <adriyel> I've had firefox randomly crash, to the point that it required a process kill
[07:56] <adriyel> someone with similar hardware has had the same problem
[07:56] <{Seb}> adriyel: #ubuntu
[07:56] <adriyel> we've deleted profiles, reinstalled firefox, everything
[07:56] <adriyel> Seb, where the crap do you think I came from?
[07:56] <infinity> adriyel : Please read the topic.
[07:56] <adriyel> I came here to report it
[07:56] <mdz_> Mithrandir: britney is run from cron.daily...
[07:56] <{Seb}> adriyel: use the bugzilla then
[07:56] <sean__> #ubunutu sent them here :p
[07:56] <adriyel> hello sean
[07:56] <Mithrandir> mdz_: hm, ok, so it was just because katie was ill today, then.
[07:57] <ogra> adriyel, this is a development channel, please keep the support stuff in #ubuntu and use bugzilla for bugs
[07:57] <adriyel> ...sounds like the "not my job" syndrome, I get that at work
[07:57] <adriyel> thanks guys, I'll go back to Gentoo, g'day.
[07:57] <mdz_> adriyel: don't take it personally.  you're only being asked to use the appropriate forums for this topic
[07:58] <doko> ogra: oh, that's easy, lib32gcc1 did remove that directory ... it's fixed now
[07:58] <ogra> doko, ahhh :) yay, great...
[07:58] <Mithrandir> ogra: care to close that bug, then?
[07:58] <ogra> Mithrandir, will do :)
[07:58] <adriyel> and I have used the appropiate forums, to no avail
[07:58] <Mithrandir> excellent.
[07:59] <Mithrandir> adriyel: I've seen firefox be a bit unstable on amd64 lately as well, but I haven't had the time to investigate it yet.
[07:59] <adriyel> thank you mithrandir, thats what I wanted to hear
[07:59] <adriyel> its a problem with the AMD64 version, as I suspected
[07:59] <Mithrandir> adriyel: I'm hoping to be able to do that over the coming days; If you see a pattern in what causes crashes, please file a bug.
[07:59] <adriyel> I do see a pattern, thats why the other person affected with this said he would file it
[07:59] <mdz_> you said it was random
[07:59] <adriyel> sigh, it crashed again
[08:00] <adriyel> pseudo-random
[08:00] <adriyel> If I let it just sit on the home page
[08:00] <Mithrandir> "firefox crashes occaasionally" isn't very useful, but if it's "firefox crashes on this or that page", then it's more useful
[08:00] <adriyel> it will typically crash within a minute to 10 minutes
[08:00] <mdz_> Mithrandir: if you want to help adriyel diagnose this problem, please do it in #ubuntu
[08:00] <adriyel> there is no particular web page guys
[08:00] <adriyel> it just sits there, and the next time I switch to the window, it crashes
[08:00] <Mithrandir> adriyel: /queery
[08:12] <sean__> so is there any way the non-programming folk can help u developers?
[08:12] <pitti> sean__: lots of :-)
[08:12] <slomo> infinity: you got mail... the wxwidgets2.6 debdiff
[08:13] <pitti> sean__: help us testing current CDs on various hardware, report bugs, triage bugs if you want, help users, join the documentation team, translate, etc. pp.
[08:14] <sean__> i was looking into advocacy in my area, would love to get on that side of things, im limited hardware wise, 333mhz celeron / 64mb ram lol
[08:14] <mvo> sean__: people looking over the bugs in bugzilla are most welcome 
[08:15] <\sh> ok...need to buy some tobacco
[08:15] <\sh> brb
[08:15] <sean__> ill do anything, just gotta point me in the right direction :) love this distro
[08:16] <\sh> elmo: thanks :)
[08:16] <\sh> elmo: u rock 
[08:53] <mdz_> Mitario: you added an agenda item to TechnicalBoardAgenda which says it has to do with the Community Council
[08:55] <mdz_> mako: ping
[08:56] <mako> mdz_: yes
[08:56] <mdz_> mako: is there going to be a surprise CC preemption of the TB meeting today?
[08:56] <mdz_> mako: (see #-meeting)
[08:57] <\sh> mbreit has to be approved as member and actually as motu...this is the only thing we discussed at last CC
[08:57] <mbreit> \sh: we discussed to also approve the other member candidates today?
[08:57] <elmo> we don't have enough people
[08:57] <doko> mdz_: please could you promote portaudio and mythes to main, reviewed by pitti (OOo2 build-deps)?
[08:57] <elmo> kamion's away, and so is sabdfl
[08:58] <mdz_> doko: did you already upload the version with the new deps?
[08:58] <mdz_> it wasn't in germinate as of the last run
[08:58] <mdz_> I'm re-germinating now
[08:58] <mdz_> elmo: cron.sync.lock()
[08:58] <doko> mdz_: yes, 2ubuntu1 is uploaded
[08:59] <elmo> mdz: cron.sync has locking now
[08:59] <mdz_> seb128: desktop is uninstallable due to gnome-terminal and gedit
[08:59] <mdz_> seb128: I need new livefs images today
[09:00] <\sh> elmo: I think the decision was made already or? we wanted to be sure that he stays with his work
[09:00] <\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-08-16.html
[09:01] <mdz_> doko: done
[09:02] <seb128> mdz_: I've been uploading the whole day, I'll look on the build logs now
[09:02] <seb128> just back from dinner
[09:03] <mjg59> ogra: I'm about to do a power-manager upload
[09:03] <ogra> yay
[09:03] <ogra> mjg59, i owe you one
[09:03] <mjg59> mdz_: ogra marked power-manager as deferred - I've managed to find the bug that was responsible for it breaking
[09:04] <doko> slomo: please could you send me the wxwidgets diffs? infinity is asleep ...
[09:04] <ogra> mjg59, it still has to pass pitti in this new architecture
[09:04] <mdz_> mjg59: I thought it was just a desktop app; if it's a daemon etc. that's a bit much
[09:04] <ogra> mjg59, the old arch was approved, but that was only a frontend
[09:04] <mdz_> seb128: i386 seems to have built ok, but both amd64 and powerpc failed
[09:05] <ogra> mdz_, i think if pitti approves it, it is ok...
[09:05] <slomo> doko: http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/wxwidgets2.6_2.6.1.1.1ubuntu2.debdiff
[09:05] <mdz_> eek
[09:05] <mdz_> powerpc:
[09:05] <mdz_> Unpacking libmng1 (from .../libmng1_1.0.8-1_powerpc.deb) ...
[09:05] <mdz_> dpkg-deb: subprocess <decompress> killed by signal (Segmentation fault)
[09:05] <mdz_> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libwmf0.2-7_0.2.8.3-2_powerpc.deb (--unpack):
[09:05] <mdz_>  subprocess dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2
[09:05] <mjg59> mdz_: Hmm. I was under the impression that the design was always for it to end up that way
[09:05] <slomo> doko: it's just a patch from the wxwidgets cvs to allow compilation with gtk 4.0
[09:05] <slomo> doko: gtk 2.8 even
[09:05] <mdz_> mjg59: I mean as a freeze exception
[09:05] <elmo> mdz: that can probably just be given back
[09:05] <mjg59> mdz_: The only means of communication is over dbus, so it /shouldn't/ (ha ha ha) be a security issue
[09:05] <elmo> what package is it?
[09:05] <mdz_> elmo: I thought that went away with ppc64?
[09:05] <mdz_> elmo: it was the livefs build
[09:05] <elmo> we don't have ppc64 yet
[09:06] <mdz_> ah
[09:06] <elmo> due to 13628 
[09:06] <elmo> or whatever it is
[09:06] <mdz_> mjg59: it's not so much a security issue as a complexity issue
[09:06] <mjg59> mdz_: It's a daemon that sits on dbus and executes a small set of commands as root if signalled
[09:07] <mdz_> mjg59: it's august 23rd
[09:07] <mjg59> Well, yes, that is true
[09:07] <seb128> mdz_: "  libgnomeui-dev: Depends: libgnomeui-0 (= 2.11.2-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed" ... I guess that's out of sync arch any/all for libgnome, it needs a retry
[09:07] <mdz_> seb128: retrying powerpc and amd64
[09:08] <seb128> thanks
[09:08] <mdz_> lamont-away: W: http://jackass.ubuntu.com/dists/breezy/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz was corrupt
[09:08] <mdz_> and yet the script exited successfully
[09:10] <elmo> mdz: the mail processing stuff picks it up AFAIK
[09:10] <mdz_> elmo: for the buildds you mean?
[09:11] <mdz_> mjg59: does your tablet work apply to the "Colony 3 on tc1100" report on -devel?
[09:11] <elmo> err, yeah.  soryr I guess you mean livecd
[09:12] <mdz_> phew, I thought you were saying that lamont had some procmail of DOOM for the livecd too
[09:14] <mjg59> mdz_: Nothing I've done would improve that situation yet
[09:14] <mdz_> mjg59: which tablet is it that you have?
[09:14] <mjg59> Those sound like generic Colony 3 bugs
[09:14] <mjg59> I've got an 1105, which is a cost-reduced 1100
[09:14] <mjg59> Stuff I'm working on at the moment would mean the tablet would work out of the box
[09:15] <mjg59> elmo: Can you sync hotkey-setup?
[09:15] <mjg59> Unless it's the same version, in which case I missed dinstall and will ask you again tomorrow :)
[09:19] <mdz_> mjg59: how are we going to handle the platforms where vga16fb doesn't work, for usplash?  do we need to blacklist certain graphics cards?  laptop models?
[09:19] <mdz_> seb128: hmm, amd64 still uninstallable
[09:19] <mdz_> seb128: same error
[09:19] <mdz_> seb128: did something ftbfs?
[09:19] <mjg59> mdz_: It's laptop rather than graphics card specific, in almost all cases
[09:20] <mjg59> mdz_: For new installs and for hoary (assuming they've followed the docs), it should fail cleanly anyway
[09:20] <tvo> hi!
[09:20] <mjg59> (Assuming that they passed the recommended parameter to turn off vga16fb on install)
[09:20] <\sh> pitti: ping
[09:22] <mdz_> mjg59: how will hoary not lose?
[09:22] <seb128> mdz_: I'm reading the log of the day, doesn't seems so ... still libgnomeui not installable?
[09:22] <seb128> pitti: around?
[09:22] <mdz_> mjg59: are you going to look for debian-installer/framebuffer=false after install time too?
[09:23] <mdz_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[09:23] <mdz_>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: gedit but it is not going to be installed
[09:23] <mdz_>                   Depends: gnome-terminal but it is not going to be installed
[09:23] <mdz_> I don't have an amd64 chroot right now to trace it down
[09:23] <tvo> hi, I'd like to request a sync for dpkg
[09:23] <seb128> me neither
[09:23] <mjg59> mdz_: On Hoary installs, the docs say "pass vga=771 to disable vga16fb"
[09:24] <mdz_> tvo: I generally leave those to the dpkg maintainer
[09:24] <pitti> \sh, seb128: yes, at the phone. will ping you back
[09:24] <mjg59> mdz_: Rather than debian-installer/framebuffer=false
[09:24] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks. Do you have an amd64 chroot to know why libgnomeui-dev is not installable here?
[09:24] <mdz_> mjg59: hmm.  there must be some other documentation which says d-i/framebuffer=false
[09:24] <mdz_> I thought that was what the isolinux help said in fact
[09:24] <mjg59> mdz_: Warty said that
[09:24] <mjg59> Hoary's isolinux docs seem to have vga=771
[09:25] <mjg59> Non-latin installs don't work with framebuffer=false
[09:25] <mdz_> and vga=771 works on these funky laptops?
[09:25] <mdz_> on the lists and such i see people saying they used /framebuffer=false
[09:26] <Mithrandir> seb128:   gedit: Depends: gedit-common (= 2.11.91-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
[09:26] <mjg59> mdz_: Hm. Maybe the wiki says that, then
[09:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: for libgnomeui-dev ?
[09:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, for gedit
[09:26] <seb128> WTF
[09:26] <seb128> all come from libgnomeui-dev
[09:26] <mjg59> mdz_: vga=771 works pretty much everywhere (as does vga16fb). The failure cases don't seem to overlap.
[09:26] <seb128> can you figure why this one is not installable?
[09:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: arch: all vs !arch: all packages and depends = source-version
[09:26] <tvo> mdz_: do you know his nick?
[09:26] <mdz_> tvo: Keybuk
[09:27] <Mithrandir> root@golem:/# apt-cache show gedit | grep ^Vers
[09:27] <Mithrandir> Version: 2.11.91-0ubuntu2
[09:27] <seb128> Mithrandir: right, and the builds fail on libgnomeui-dev not beeing installable
[09:27] <tvo> Keybuk: ping
[09:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: then they need a kicking; it's installable for me.
[09:27] <mdz_> tvo:  a sync means to replace the ubuntu package with the version in Debian; that's definitely not appropriate for dpkg at this time
[09:27] <mdz_> tvo: can you be more specific about your goal?
[09:27] <seb128> Mithrandir: mdz just kicked and said it failed again
[09:28] <mdz_> Mithrandir: that's in a chroot?
[09:28] <seb128> let's wait for the build log
[09:28] <Mithrandir> mdz_: pbuilder login, yes
[09:28] <mdz_> what build log?
[09:28] <mdz_> powerpc just failed again too
[09:28] <seb128> gedit/gnome-terminal builds
[09:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: what is the package which FTBFS?
[09:28] <mdz_> Setting up dnsutils (9.3.1-2ubuntu1) ...
[09:28] <mdz_> /bin/sh: error while loading shared libraries: <D3>{<A1><9D>b+OP}l<AB>I/bU<E2>
 cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[09:29] <mdz_> royal needs an exorcism
[09:29] <seb128> Mithrandir: gedit/gnome-terminal builds
[09:29] <tvo> mdz_: yes, I tried to pbuilder build a package, but it doesn't work because dpkg-source has bug 318473
[09:29] <mdz_> elmo: does it help to reboot/spit/kick/etc.?
[09:29] <seb128> Mithrandir: they chocked on libgnomeui-dev which was due to libgnome any/all out of sync imho, let's wait for the retry
[09:29] <tvo> mdz_: this is supposed to be fixed in 1.13.11
[09:30] <elmo> mdz: hmm, if it can wait an hour or so, I'll go up to the DC and install a stock ppc64 kernel on it
[09:30] <mjg59> ogra: Uhm. Only remaining problem is that g-p-m doesn't actually seem to get any events
[09:31] <ogra> mjg59, hmm it pops up a message if i unplug my power here for example
[09:31] <mdz_> at least i386 succeeded
[09:31] <seb128> elmo: did you read the sync requestion from before?
[09:31] <mdz_> tvo: with which package?
[09:31] <mdz_> tvo: (with which package did you encounter the pbuilder issue)
[09:32] <tvo> mdz_: kio-locate
[09:32] <seb128> elmo: goffice libgsf xicc syncs please (I got approval from mdz)
[09:32] <ogra> mjg59, is your hal up to date ? 
[09:32] <mjg59> Ah - there is a newer version. Let me try that.
[09:33] <mdz_> tvo: imported as http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14052
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: seems to work fine here
[09:33] <mdz_> tvo: you can add yourself to CC and add your comments there
[09:33] <Mithrandir> seb128: gedit seems to build fine with pbuilder here.
[09:33] <mdz_> seb128: it works best to send email with the exact versions and CC me
[09:33] <elmo> seb128: done
[09:34] <seb128> pitti, Mithrandir: cool, thanks. So it should be fixed on retry from the buildds
[09:34] <seb128> mdz_: noted
[09:34] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[09:34] <mjg59> ogra: Went from ubuntu1 to ubuntu9
[09:34] <tvo> mdz_: ok, ty
[09:34] <mdz_> mjg59: but in any case this only affects people who were already screwed from the start when they booted the install CD, right?
[09:35] <mdz_> mjg59: so if they managed to finish the install in spite of that, they should be able to clean up after usplash too
[09:35] <ogra> mjg59, hmm, but the major version stays the same ? it should work...
[09:35] <mjg59> mdz_: Yeah
[09:35] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, I get a notification thing on AC change
[09:35] <slomo> doko: thanks for the upload :)
[09:36] <mjg59> ogra: Should I not be getting something for button presses?
[09:36] <ogra> ah, ok
[09:36] <ogra> mjg59, you should... i cant test it with my acer.... no acerhk in the kernel...
[09:36] <mjg59> ogra: acerhk should be back in Breezy
[09:37] <mjg59> Oh, my, but this is going to be pain
[09:37] <ogra> mjg59, i was hoping to be in the laptop testing team (since i was the fiorst one who subscribed) to be able to test such stuff
[09:37] <mjg59> ogra: But then you got hired :)
[09:37] <ogra> but i didnt get selected apparently
[09:38] <mjg59> Nobody on the payroll did
[09:38] <ogra> mjg59, oh, its a matter of being employed :) didnt know that
[09:38] <sean_> wow didnt realise you were all paid empolyees?
[09:38] <ogra> would have been very helpfull though
[09:38] <mjg59> Oh argh python doom
[09:38] <ogra> sean_, we arent *all*
[09:39] <mjg59> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/LaunchpadIntegration/_lpi.so: undefined symbol: launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename
[09:39] <mjg59> What should that be defined in?
[09:39] <sean_> oh ok :) got a nice mix, well props to the volunteers working on ubuntu :) and all the devel's, nice work guys + girls
[09:40] <ogra> mjg59, pythin-launchpadintegration or something like that
[09:40] <mjg59> Nngh eyestrain
[09:40] <ogra> python even
[09:40] <seb128> mjg59: 
[09:40] <seb128> $ nm -D /usr/lib/liblaunchpad-integration.so | grep set_source
[09:40] <seb128> 000012a0 T launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename
[09:40] <mjg59> ogra: That's where it comes from, but there must be something else that's providing that symbol
[09:40] <mdz_> Mithrandir: gedit and gnome-terminal are not installable in the master archive
[09:40] <mdz_> Mithrandir: maybe your chroot needs freshening?
[09:40] <mjg59> seb128: Ah - what package is that from?
[09:40] <seb128> liblaunchpad-integration0 > 0.0patch26
[09:41] <mjg59> python-launchpad-integration doesn't depend on it
[09:41] <seb128> kick mvo :)
[09:41] <seb128> he did this upload
[09:41] <mdz_> the dep isn't versioned
[09:41] <mjg59> mvo: python-launchpad-integration has inadequate dependencies
[09:41] <mdz_> kick the liblaunchpad-integratino0 maintainer
[09:41] <mjg59> Oh, shlibdeps?
[09:41] <mjg59> Nngh
[09:42] <mdz_> #DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_liblaunchpad-integration := -V 'liblaunchpad-integration'
[09:42] <bandini> could any non x86 breezy user launch 'gs-esp' and tell me if it segfaults for them? (looking at #13771)
[09:42] <seb128> mdz_: yeah, I've versionned since there was no API change since the first package
[09:42] <mjg59> ogra: Ah - I'm not getting the ACPI stuff in hal-device-manager for some reason
[09:42] <Mithrandir> mdz_: I just ran pbuilder update, so I doubt that.
[09:42] <seb128> mdz_: it was meant to be changed on API change, and mvo did this upload :)
[09:42] <mdz_> Mithrandir: try building a new chroot from scratch rather than upgrading; that's what the build does
[09:43] <seb128> mvo: should I fix it, or you are going to?
[09:44] <ogra> mjg59, then its a hal bug
[09:44] <mdz_> Mithrandir: just mailed you a copy of the log
[09:44] <mvo> seb128: if you have time feel  free, I will fix it otherwise
[09:44] <Mithrandir> mdz_: my chroot is a pbuilder chroot, which means it's fairly minimal, but sure, I can try strapping another one.
[09:44] <seb128> mvo: I'll do it now
[09:44] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah, probably. I'll worry about it later.
[09:44] <mdz_> Mithrandir: which mirror do you use?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> mdz_: archive.ubuntu.com
[09:45] <mvo> seb128: thanks!
[09:45] <mdz_> Mithrandir: that isn't necessarily the same as jackass, but it ought to be close enough
[09:45] <Keybuk> tvo: yo?
[09:45] <mdz_> Keybuk: #14052
[09:45] <seb128> mvo: you're welcome :) 
[09:46] <tvo> Keybuk: what mdz_ said :)
[09:46] <Keybuk> mdz_: we could sync those in, but there's some "fix some shit iwj wrote while on major crack ten years ago" stuff in there too
[09:46] <mdz_> seb128: gnome-games seems to have many scrollkeeper errors
[09:46] <mjg59> ogra: You still ought to get lid events. Do those trigger g-p-m?
[09:48] <mdz_> Keybuk: your changelog was fairly nonspecific; what's the actual bug which bit tvo?
[09:48] <Keybuk> I think I'd feel a little happier about just backporting the dpkg-source patches
[09:48] <mdz_> it was in a string of "fix a bunch of dpkg-source stuff"
[09:48] <Keybuk> bod wrote the dpkg-source extractor to be strict and fussy about filenames, and what could have an orig, and what could have a diff, etc.
[09:48] <seb128> mdz_: I'll have a look, that's ugly but doesn't break anything
[09:48] <Keybuk> so it'd only allow an orig if there was no revision, and only allow a diff if there was a revision, etc.
[09:48] <Keybuk> and he used if $revision ... which is false if revision is "0"
[09:48] <pitti> \sh: back, btw
[09:48] <mjg59> Anyway.
[09:48] <\sh> pitti: it's ok...I just had problems with debuild and fakeroot (btw...debuild -rfakeroot) doesn't work :)
[09:48] <ogra> mjg59, nope
[09:48] <mdz_> Keybuk: that's evil; there are plenty of packages with native version numbers and diffs
[09:49] <Keybuk> yup
[09:49] <mjg59> ogra: You get no lid events? Or g-p-m does nothing with them?
[09:49] <pitti> \sh: debuild uses it automatically
[09:49] <ogra> mjg59, where do i see them ? 
[09:49] <Keybuk> so I rewrote the code to basically allow most things
[09:49] <\sh> pitti: no...doesn't work :(
[09:49] <mjg59> ogra: /etc/init.d/acpid stop
[09:49] <mjg59> ogra: cat /proc/acpi/events
[09:49] <pitti> \sh: it does, that's one of the main features of debuild
[09:49] <\sh> pitti: it's going into the clean stage and complaining at dh_testroot 
[09:49] <mjg59> ogra: Press the lid switch
[09:50] <pitti> \sh: how on earth did you manage to break that???
[09:50] <\sh> pitti: not me...gwydion ;)
[09:50] <ogra> mjg59, cat: /proc/acpi/events: No such file or directory 
[09:50] <ogra> hmm
[09:50] <Keybuk> the "make unpack totally atomic" changes would be nice to get in too
[09:50] <\sh> pitti: dh_testdir
[09:50] <\sh> dh_testroot
[09:50] <\sh> dh_testroot: You must run this as root (or use fakeroot).
[09:50] <ogra> mjg59, ah, its event, not events here
[09:50] <Keybuk> (ie. "can't overwrite file" or "corrupt tarfile" etc. failures result in your system being in _exactly_ the same state it was before you begun unpacking the new binary)
[09:50] <mjg59> Ah, sorry, yes
[09:51] <ogra> mjg59, works
[09:51] <ogra> mjg59, but i'm not sure hal hands them over
[09:51] <mjg59> ogra: Ok. So either hal or g-p-m is broken.
[09:51] <mjg59> ogra: I'll take a look tomorrow, but if you have any time to have a play that would be great
[09:51] <Keybuk> oh, there's a securitah in there too
[09:52] <Keybuk> bah
[09:52] <Keybuk> elmo: sync dpkg ;)
[09:52] <jblack> keybuk: When you have a free moment, could I steal about ten of them from you? It'l help hct in the long run.
[09:52] <mjg59> ogra: New power-manager should work fine with existing g-p-m package
[09:52] <Keybuk> jblack: I have about ten free moments now, /msg ?
[09:52] <ogra> mjg59, all time you want (and edubuntu leaves me)
[09:52] <jblack> sure. :)
[09:52] <ogra> mjg59, have fun in the pub :)
[09:52] <ogra> mjg59, and thanks a lot :)
[09:54] <mvo> pitti: there is no language-pack-kde-af?
[09:55] <seb128> mvo: launchpad-integration fixed
[09:55] <mvo> seb128: thanks!
[09:55] <seb128> np
[09:55] <pitti> mvo: hm, apparently not
[09:55] <pitti> mvo: is kde-i18n-af very new?
[09:55] <mvo> pitti: don't know, I was just asking for the language-selector
[09:56] <mvo> I need to know if I should just silently ignore non-existing language-pack packages
[09:56] <mvo> or if I should report the package as missing
[09:56] <pitti> mvo: in general, ignore
[09:57] <mdke> does anyone else think there is something strange about the fonts in breezy firefox? mine are a bit weird and it's difficult to distinguish bold text from regular
[09:57] <pitti> mvo: but thanks for the hint
[09:57] <Keybuk> mdz: you ok with a dpkg sync?
[09:57] <mdz_> Keybuk: not with the information I currently have available. are you?
[09:57] <Keybuk> well, I think there's enough in 1.13.11 to be useful for us
[09:57] <Keybuk> lots of bug fixes, mostly
[09:58] <Mithrandir> mdz_: well, even with a freshly bootstrapped chroot it works fine
[09:58] <mvo> pitti: ok, I'll do that now
[10:01] <sean_> how do i post a temporary fix for a bug on the wiki?
[10:02] <ogra> Mithrandir, is this norwegian ? http://www.edubuntu.org/ForSide
[10:02] <pitti> sean_: you don't rather want to attach the patch into bugzilla?
[10:03] <sean_> ive never dealt with bugzilla
[10:04] <sean_> this is day 3 on ubunutu... been using slackware :( 
[10:04] <\sh> slackware doesn't have a bts?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes, but it's capitalised incorrectly.
[10:05] <mdke> no one on my firefox question? i have it on both my breezy systems
[10:05] <ogra> Mithrandir, it shouldnt exist at all ;) thats the error :)
[10:05] <mdz_> Keybuk: how has it held up in debian so far?
[10:05] <sean_> nope, not 9.1 anyway, was what i was runnign
[10:05] <mdz_> Mithrandir: I'm flabbergasted
[10:06] <mdz_> Mithrandir: it's failed 7 times in a row
[10:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, thanks for looking
[10:06] <mdz_> BenC: ->#ubuntu-meeting
[10:06] <Mithrandir> mdz_: I'll look at the log, then
[10:07] <Keybuk> mdz_: there's been no non-trivial bugs filed on it since release -- usually the killers show up within a week
[10:08] <sean_> i posted it on /frontdesk for now, ill RTFM on bugzilla, and start learning how to use it
[10:10] <ogra> doko, did you recongize my blackdown mail to elmo and you ? 
[10:11] <doko> ogra: and?
[10:11] <ogra> doko, you didnt answer... i asked which version and from where exactly we need....
[10:13] <doko> ahh, ok, latest version: deb http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian unstable non-free  / version 1.4.2.02-1
[10:13] <ogra> doko, can you mail that so elmo doesn miss it ? 
[10:14] <ogra> to make sabdfl happy...
[10:14] <doko> or your favourite mirrir at http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/java-linux-d2.html
[10:14] <doko> yes, will do
[10:14] <ogra> thanks :)
[10:21] <mvo> pitti: just FYI language-support-da is not installable right now 
[10:21] <pitti> thanks
[10:39] <Mithrandir> mdz_: installing _gedit_ won't work, but it shouldn't fail to build is what I was trying to say.
[10:39] <sean_> any thing i should know before i make a breezy upgrade? <doing it via apt-get upgrade-dist>
[10:39] <mdz_> Mithrandir: the issue is with the livefs build, which involves installing packages, not building them
[10:40] <mdz_> so whatever has been built and is currently in the archive is uninstallable
[10:40] <mdz_> that's the problem
[10:41] <Mithrandir> mdz_: it appears that the gedit and gnome-terminal builds just have to be retried
[10:44] <{Seb}> tseng has told me but can i confirm
[10:44] <mvo> sean_: you should know that it's not yet save for a production system
[10:44] <doko> seb128, daniels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/OOo2/  if you could have a look at the cairo enabled build ...
[10:44] <Mithrandir> lafinity: could you please retry the gedit and gnome-terminal builds?
[10:44] <{Seb}> gmime, gtk-sharp2 and evolution-sharp will be updated for Breezy fina?>
[10:44] <{Seb}> so Beagle 0.0.13.1 will run (when it comes)
[10:46] <{Seb}> does the feature freeze stop this?
[10:48] <ajmitch> I guess it'd depend if they were all moved back to universe
[10:48] <{Seb}> if there were?
[10:48] <{Seb}> if they weren't?
[10:49] <ajmitch> then it'd be easier to break upstream version freeze
[10:49] <ajmitch> if they are in universe
[10:49] <slomo> ajmitch: they will move to universe soon afaik
[10:49] <Burgundavia> beagle is going to stay in universe
[10:49] <{Seb}> none of them are IIRC
[10:49] <{Seb}> yes, but the packages it depends are aren't
[10:49] <ajmitch> beagle is currently in universe
[10:49] <{Seb}> gmime, gtk-sharp, evolution-sharp are the ones that need updating
[10:49] <ajmitch> I know
[10:49] <{Seb}> i'm not bothered about beagle packages
[10:49] <{Seb}> are those packages going to be updated?
[10:50] <ajmitch> gtk# is finally api frozen
[10:50] <{Seb}> gtk-sharp2 though
[10:50] <Burgundavia> {Seb}, anything in universe can be updated until the very end
[10:51] <{Seb}> gtk-sharp2 is is main
[10:52] <{Seb}> does that mean it won't be updated?
[10:52] <{Seb}> lbevolution-cil is also in main
[10:52] <{Seb}> but gmime isn't
[10:52] <{Seb}> does that mean gmime could be updated at the others not Burgundavia?
[10:53] <Burgundavia> {Seb}, there is talk of moving gtk-sharp2 back to universe
[10:53] <{Seb}> what about the others?
[10:53] <{Seb}> libevolution-cil mainly :-)
[10:53] <Burgundavia> no idea
[10:53] <Burgundavia> talk to tseng or mdz 
[10:54] <{Seb}> tseng is away
[10:55] <slomo> {Seb}: libevolution-cil depends on gtk# so it will be moved too i think
[10:55] <{Seb}> back into universe?
[10:56] <slomo> {Seb}: yes
[11:07] <sean_> so you guys keep a changelog somewhere?
[11:09] <torkel> sean_: changelog of what?
[11:09] <sean_> of the work thats done in here, and where packages are going etc?
[11:12] <torkel> most of the future ideas, plans, etc are in the wiki
[11:13] <mdke> sean_, you can find changelogs of the individual packages at changelogs.ubuntu.com or on the breezy-changes mailing list
[11:13] <sean_> oh ok, so you guys all kinda use that as your hub then
[11:13] <sean_> booya, that helps :) gonna have to subscribe to that list :)
[11:14] <sean_> thanks :)
[11:17] <doko> elmo: please dist-upgrade davis/breezy and install render-dev ant libportaudio-dev libmythes-dev libglitz-glx1-dev mdbtools-dev bsh
[11:19] <elmo> doko: done
[11:25] <mdke> sean_, there are some other mailing lists you might be interested in, see lists.ubuntu.com
[11:26] <Mithrandir> well, bed and such.
[11:30] <sean_> thanks mdke  :) much apreciated
[11:32] <elmo> mdz: you aren't planning on any special livecd/d-i action in the next 4-5 hours right?
[11:32] <elmo> on the buildds I mean
[11:32] <rtcm> doko: there is a bug in the hplip init script
[11:32] <rtcm> doko: hplip is running as root, where it shouldn't
[11:33] <rtcm> doko: i'll bug report
[11:33] <doko> rtcm: bug report number?
[11:33] <doko> ah, ok. thanks
[11:34] <rtcm> doko: 14061
[11:35] <rtcm> doko: while we are at it, isn't there a way to run these daemons only if an HP printer is connected?
[11:37] <doko> rtcm: honestly, I don't know. Please make this a separate report
[11:39] <mdz_> elmo: I am trying to get updated livefs builds on all architectures
[11:39] <elmo> mdz: oh, meh
[11:39] <mdz_> elmo: mithrandir said gedit and gnome-terminal needed retries
[11:39] <elmo> mdz: well, FYI all 3 powerpcs are on ppc64, but the live-cd build scripts will need some linxu32 love
[11:40] <mdz_> elmo: powerpc and i386 succeeded
[11:40] <elmo> ok
[11:40] <mdz_> elmo: can you retry those builds if they haven't done so on their own yeT?
[11:41] <elmo> on all arches?
[11:42] <mdz_> elmo: amd64, apparently
[11:42] <mdz_> according to Mithrandir before he went to bed
[11:44] <elmo> argh jackass is so god damn slow
[11:44] <elmo> hmm, I suppose I could give it's second CPU back;)
[11:45] <elmo> mdz: given back
[11:45] <elmo> mdz: [going home, will be back in 30 mins or so] 
[11:49] <tseng> bah {Seb}
[11:49] <martinald> hi. is there ubuntu nightly cds?
[11:51] <pitti> martinald: depends on your definition of night :-) but there is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[11:51] <martinald> many thanks :)
[12:04] <seb128> mdz: they both built on amd64, is -desktop installable now?
[12:04] <martinald> another quick question :- what is the status of openoffice2 on breezy?