=== ogra [n=ogra@p5089F8E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@cpc3-lich4-3-0-cust227.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@p5487E82D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Riddell-1wa [i=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sladen_ [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === smurfix [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === SloMo_ [n=slomo@p5487D886.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ajmitch__ [n=ajmitch@203.89.166.146] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.111.160.232] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:47] hey everyone === Unfrgive1 [n=ankur@202.76.176.94] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.111.160.232] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@dyn127.roaming.few.vu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@dsl-084-059-071-032.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mitsuhiko [n=blackbir@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === terrex [n=terrex@84-122-73-155.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.111.160.232] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@p5089EEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Simira [n=rpGirl@150.84-48-74.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.111.160.232] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["This] === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.111.160.232] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@dyn127.roaming.few.vu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.111.160.232] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089ED5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089F37D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089D107.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mitsuhiko [n=blackbir@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jbailey_ [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@p5089E335.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jbailey_ [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@cpc3-lich4-3-0-cust227.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@cpc3-lich4-3-0-cust227.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@cpc3-lich4-3-0-cust227.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@cpc3-lich4-3-0-cust227.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === janeW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-155-105.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@ipd50ab46e.speed.planet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:09] does anyone know who I have to ask for a very urgend shipit order? [05:17] mitsuhiko, IIRC, if you email shipit@ubuntu.com, you can explain to them what you need. [05:18] jbailey: thx. will try === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@p5089E335.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hadi57 [n=al_moghr@83.136.8.206] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hadi57 [n=al_moghr@83.136.8.206] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@cpc3-lich4-3-0-cust227.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mitario [n=michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mdz_ [n=mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === martinald [n=martin@80.229.237.12] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:15] hi [08:15] am i too late for tech board meeting? [08:16] martinald: No, you're early. [08:16] martinald: "date --utc" is a good way to find out the current time. [08:17] whoops. of cours [08:17] =) [08:27] martinald: if you need to track different timezones frequently, gworldclock is nice as well === ogra is preparing a .desktop file for gworldclock [08:28] it annoys me since ages that this is missing... [08:31] ogra++ [08:31] mvo: i'll check it out [08:32] i can do n. american timezones instictively but european/'middle of the atlantic ones' always get me confused :) [08:32] the UI needs some love IMO, but it's a good start [08:48] is MichielSikkes here? === mbreit [n=mo@p54875816.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:53] mdz_: he's Mitario in #ubuntu-devel [08:53] mdz_: and he'll be around for the meeting [08:53] mvo: thanks [08:54] mdz_: hi yes, Mako told me to do it, because on the previous CC meeting they defereed me because of an incomplete CC board members [08:55] mdz_, mako told me to add myself to the TB meeting because my future tasks would also involve technical and maintainer-like stuff [08:55] Mitario: either you are applying for membership or maintainership; if you are applying for membership (as your agenda item says) then you don't need TB approval at all [08:56] mdz_: mako (and mark) told us to apply for membership today on tb-meeting... [08:56] mdz_, I'm not sure anymore what I'm applying for now. I wanted to be a member, and what I understood of mako, they would vote for my membership === mako [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:56] ha mako [08:56] greetings === Mitario is confused :) [08:56] mdz_, it was maks call, mako will be around [08:56] marks even [08:57] mako is here, but sabdfl will not be === mvo gives his vote to Mitario [08:57] heh :) === ogra gives his vote to mvo === mvo giggles [08:57] (do with it what you like ;) ) [08:57] shit [08:57] we can't do it today than === mvo just gives it back [08:58] hmm :( [08:58] when mark suggested we put it off to today, i suspect he would, y'know be here [08:58] we don't have quorum for the cc without him [08:58] well I could also apply for maintainer, it was one of the tasks I was going to apply for after being member anyways [08:59] but i thought you need to be member for it [08:59] Mitario: same problem here... === Mitario heard the MOTU need some help [09:00] yeah === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:00] i'm not sure what to tell you guys.. mark suggested we do it here but without him here we simply don't have enough people to vote as the CC [09:00] hmm [09:00] okay [09:00] Mitario, we'll have a MOTU meeting tomorrow [09:01] ogra, oh, MOTU maintainers arent voted for at the TB? [09:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting === Mitario thought he say something like that on the wiki [09:01] Mitario, sure they are [09:01] ok :) [09:01] but MOTUs can also sponsor your uploads... [09:01] true true [09:02] well, i'm not sure what to do now :) [09:02] wether to add myself to maintainercandidates or not [09:02] Mitario: MOTU is a separate process from membership [09:02] do it :) [09:02] Mitario: you should add yourself to maintainercandidates after you have worked with MOTU long enough for others to speak on your behalf === \sh [n=sh@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:03] mdz_, ok i'll just need to contribe some MOTU stuff first then === Mitario primary interest on maintainer behalf was update-* [09:03] but I guess that's far away because it needs upload access to main then.. [09:04] Mitario: well, you contributed a lot to ubuntu already [09:04] <\sh> g'evening [09:05] mvo, hmm, so what to do next :/ [09:05] I guess you are a bit of a special case, but you got my vote for MOTU and I'm more than happy to sponsor your work [09:06] mvo, Mitario MOTU is about showing your packaging skills [09:06] ogra, I'm a debian maintainer :) [09:06] if you already have proven them that should be enough... [09:06] Mitario, thats what i mean [09:06] well was actually, I orphaned the package [09:07] ok i'll just add myself to the list, let the TB decide [09:07] and if not I'll just do some unofficial MOTU for the time being [09:12] <\sh> Mitario: would be nice to have u for MOTU for some time...ajmitch and you can give us more advice for packaging and for reviewing the packages at http://siretart.tauware.de/revu :) [09:12] sure :) [09:13] has the meting started? [09:13] <\sh> no [09:13] 2000 UTC [09:13] <\sh> 20:00 UTC [09:13] <\sh> in 47 mins [09:13] 45mins to go [09:13] oh :) [09:13] k === terrex [n=terrex@84-122-73-155.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mitario [n=michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-085-062.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Simira [n=rpGirl@150.84-48-74.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sistpoty [n=nobody@DSL01.83.171.160.5.NEFkom.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:56] Heya [09:56] hi pitti [09:59] hey [10:00] mdz_: meeting now? [10:00] <\sh> g'evening jane :) so late? :) [10:03] \sh: sadly yes ;) [10:03] hi [10:03] \sh" still it's far better than last week's 22:00 UTC.. [10:04] <\sh> JaneW: hehe..:) I know :) but until today I had a really bad week starting..and it started with saturday :( [10:04] <\sh> so I'm tired :( [10:05] \sh" I am actually having a better week this week, the clouds have silver linings again [10:05] that can go too far, when you start seeing silver linings in mushroom clouds, you need to ease back on the drugs [10:06] pitti: yep [10:06] <\sh> hehe [10:06] JaneW: so I assume sabdfl will not be joining us === Keybuk feigns shock [10:07] welcome to the tech board meeting, everyone [10:07] he's in SA right now, isn't he? [10:07] mdz_: I honestly have no idea, I didn;t even realise we were in the same country atm - till ogra said so [10:07] JaneW: oh, there was a rumour that you might know [10:07] mdz_ i assumed she was at the same meetng [10:07] mdz_: though he is likly to be at dinner with someone... [10:08] I've pinged BenC [10:08] I did bump into an ex-school teacher if his in the supermarket earlier though... [10:08] hi [10:08] Mitario: we resolved that you don't need to be considered by TB yet, right? [10:08] is MoritzBreit here? === BenC [n=bcollins@216.144.233.50] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:08] orga: co-incidentally he may get involved in edubuntu ^^ [10:08] members need to appear before the CC, not the TB [10:08] mdz_: yes I am [10:08] mbreit: ^^ [10:09] mdz_, actually, I added myself to MaintainerCandidates :) if thats fine [10:09] randomly, did iwj apply yet? [10:09] Keybuk: I think we had an ad hoc meeting [10:09] strting the m68k port? [10:09] anyway, BenC is first up [10:09] mdz_: BTW we got all the oragne off the BreezyGoals page, but some yellow (WIP) still remains... but only under duress [10:09] BenC is the new kernel team lead [10:10] and we thought it might be nice if he were able to upload the kernel === BenC waves [10:10] will he fix upstream bug #2664? :o) [10:10] would be pretty hard otherwise :-) [10:10] Hi benc [10:10] or is that still mjg59-land === juliux|HSV [n=juliux@141.30.211.85] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:10] Keybuk: we aren't allowed to accept bribes :-P [10:11] /m Keybuk I charge $100 for personal bug fixes [10:11] damn [10:11] oops === lamont [n=lamont@15.238.5.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:11] mdz_, he did for my maintainership (lemme know ehn you ant that pint :P) [10:11] would anyone like to speak regarding BenC before we vote? [10:11] what about fabbione threatening my life if he has to upload another kernel ever again? [10:11] (j/k) [10:11] Keybuk: So is that a vote for or against benc? [10:11] Keybuk: BenC can probably do that [10:11] Keybuk: that's extortion. completely different., [10:12] ah, and that's ok is it. *makes notes for future reference* :p [10:12] ok, votes? [10:12] ++ from me [10:12] +1 here as well [10:12] ++ [10:12] and sabdfl is absent [10:12] BenC: welcome aboard [10:12] thanks [10:12] BenC: what's your launchpad userid? [10:13] like as in gpg id, or my machine login username? [10:13] BenC: like launchpad.net/people/foo [10:14] launchpad.net, that's a new thing to me [10:14] ok, you don't seem to have one yet [10:14] do I need to create an account on there? [10:14] BenC: yes, create one and then tell me what its name is later [10:14] BenC, you should also sign the Code of Conduct there :) [10:14] Mitario: you're up next [10:14] oki [10:15] that's fast :) [10:15] Mitario: you're applying for MOTU? [10:15] yeah guess so, update-manager/notifier would be a longer way right? [10:15] Mitario, MOTU is the road to main ;) [10:15] Mitario: MOTU would be the first step [10:15] oki :) [10:15] MOTU it is then [10:16] ok === ogra would be fine with approval wrt update-* and DD experience [10:16] Mitario: oh, you are a DD? [10:16] and mvo's vote as well :) [10:16] DM, never signed up for DD, because I got sponsored (paul van tilburg) [10:16] it doesn't say on your page [10:16] ah [10:17] didn't know any use for it to be DD [10:17] it doesn't? about BMP? [10:17] or which page do you mean? [10:17] I work with Mitario for some time now and I can only recommend him [10:17] it doesn't say that you were a DD [10:17] but that's because you weren't :-) [10:17] precisely :) [10:17] mvo: Mitario has worked with you on update-manager, yes? [10:18] <\sh> mvo: we will see how many packages he will love ;) [10:18] mdz_: yes, we work on update-manager and update-notifier together [10:18] would you recommend him for motu? [10:18] Keybuk: yes [10:18] <\sh> but with the experience as DM he will be a good support for MOTU [10:18] and ogra as well? [10:18] <\sh> +1 from me [10:18] yup [10:18] +1 [10:18] ++ from me [10:19] +1 based on the recommendations of mvo and ogra [10:19] Mitario: congratulations and welcome [10:19] thank you :) [10:19] welcome Mitario [10:19] :) [10:19] Mitario: make sure you create an account in launchpad [10:19] <\sh> welcome Mitario and join #ubuntu-motu to start work... [10:19] mdz_, yeah it's michiel [10:19] congrats Mitario [10:19] launchpad id = michiel [10:19] we're now using launchpad to manage the workflow of maintainer/member processes [10:19] great [10:19] i see [10:20] MartinAlderson wanted to discuss the desktop theme [10:20] Mitario, and sign the CoC :) for membership [10:20] ogra, already did so :) [10:20] is he present? [10:20] martinald: ping? [10:20] hi! [10:20] yes. [10:21] have you guys read the wiki page? [10:21] yes [10:21] martinald, blue ? [10:21] *shudder* [10:21] Ubuntu's unique branding is important to the project [10:22] how? [10:22] and the desktop artwork is part of that [10:22] martinald: it is part of our identity [10:22] we are using clearlooks, so the way the interface works is going to be the same [10:22] we've just tweaked the colours a bit [10:23] http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/cl_human.png [10:23] vs. [10:23] martinald, also the ubuntu clearlooks has some usability improvements (bold bars on selected tabs) and some beautification for selected list entrys [10:23] http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/cl_default.png [10:23] martinald: it is how ubuntu is recognized, and recognition strengthens the community [10:23] (for those playing a long at home) [10:23] i really do doubt that any user has joined ubuntu simply because of the desktop theme [10:23] martinald: that isn't what I said, but it's always possible :-) [10:24] martinald, it was one reason i did (clearlooks wasnt in warty though, but the colors were attracting me too) [10:24] well guys i have tried to get some marketing effort of the ground [10:24] <--- lokes brown desktops very much :) [10:24] isnt the whole color scheme based off it being "earthy" etc? [10:24] likes even [10:24] but it's very hard to do this when you seem to be trying to make it totally unmarketable [10:24] Mez: that was part of the Human concept, yes [10:24] why is it "totally unmarketable" ? [10:24] I dont particularly like th brown desktop, but it works well for ubuntu. [10:24] martinald: we're here to listen to you; there's no reason to be hostile [10:25] sorry. what i mean is that brown isn't a good colour for a desktop [10:25] if you want to present your ideas here, we do ask that you do it rationally and calmly [10:25] <\sh> martinald: hmmm...I have some users at the company...they love the brownish theme of ubuntu... [10:25] martinald, shipit sent out more then a million CDs, i wouldnt call that unmarketable [10:25] it inspires nothing. blue inspires confidence and security. brown doesn't. [10:25] martinald: if you're interested in trying a different colour scheme, the newly formed art team is the best place to discuss it [10:25] martinald, it's not compulsory to use the brown interface :D [10:25] Mez, for many users they will not understand how to change it [10:25] martinald, blue is cold and inhuman imho [10:26] the reason it's brown at the moment is because _everything_else_ is blue [10:26] there has been both positive and negative feedback about the default colour scheme; it's largely a matter of taste [10:26] martinald, then isnt it simplky better to help improve the documenation so they do ? [10:26] The colour scheme is secondary to the issue of making it harder for screenshots + consistency [10:26] you can have warm greens or reds, but blue is always cold and tehnically === pitti did not like the brown neither at first, but now he actually does [10:26] an Ubuntu desktop stands out in screenshots, photos or as you walk by the monitor, simply because of the difference of colour [10:26] martinald: brown mostly doesn't inspire anything because researchers in color psych have focused on primary colors :-P [10:26] actually, that's not the reason it's "brown", just !blue [10:27] <\sh> Keybuk: u have something against KDE? ;) [10:27] \sh: lots of things, but now is not the time or the place for them ;) [10:27] \sh: lol [10:28] <\sh> ok..go on? [10:28] \sh: I have lots of things against KDE too - but i use it :P ... I think that the blue/brown difference between ubuntu and kubuntu is a good thing [10:28] the actual color scheme used is an art team matter that we don't need to discuss here [10:28] ubuntu isnt the default color to make it stick out ... :D which is good :D [10:28] sorry i shouldn't of raised the colourscheme [10:28] martinald, the theme is the face of our distro ... most of us like it, marketing seems t work very well with it, where is the reason to change it ? [10:28] the matter at hand is whether we should forego the idea of having a default theme which is unique to Ubuntu [10:28] martinald: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam is the wiki page of the Art Team, who will be coming up with new icons, colours and cute things [10:28] if I have understood correctly [10:29] yes correctly [10:29] correct* [10:29] I may not have a vote, but IMO a specialized default theme is good [10:29] it really is a pain documenting ubuntu with screenshots [10:29] several custom themes would be even better [10:29] martinald: do you represent the documentation team in this opinion? [10:30] I haven't heard this sentiment from them before [10:30] and this shows in the masses of documentaion with missing/no images [10:30] dont most of the doc team use ubuntu? [10:30] in which sense? creating documentation on Ubuntu for other distributions, or using documentation created on other distributions on Ubuntu [10:30] Mez: yes, most of the ubuntu documentation team uses ubuntu... [10:30] mdz_: no, there was noone on the ubuntu-doc team when i went 3 times before this meeting [10:30] but someone in ubuntu-devel agreed [10:30] and i am currently doing some documentation work myself === mitsuhiko [n=blackbir@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:31] mdz_, yes, then screenshotting for them shoudnt be a problem [10:31] Mez: my point was that if we see a new feature in gnome 2.12 [10:31] martinald, who agreed? [10:31] i have to upgrade to breezy which is unstable and not very good to do stable work like documnation on [10:32] if this is a common sentiment within the documentation team, i would like to hear more voices [10:32] sorry, i just got back, screenshoots is not a problem for us, and yes most of us use ubuntu, i like the brown, its unique to ubuntu [10:32] martinald, then let others take the screenshot - someone who breezy is working for, or download the scheme and apply it === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089D79C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:32] but if i could copy and paste the plentiful existing screenshots from gnome then i could have a start at documenting with screenshots and tweak it later when breezy is stabler [10:32] martinald: maybe it would help to start a discussion on the ubuntu-doc mailing list, if you're having trouble reaching people on IRC [10:32] Mez: it raises the barrier and the ubuntu doc team is vastly understaffed at the moment imo === ivoks [n=ivoks@lns01-1747.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:32] martinald: when I discussed this with the documentation team last, we agreed that it was sufficient to agree on UI and artwork deadlines in the release schedule, in order to give them time to do screenshots [10:33] but there was no issue with the theme at that time [10:33] that deadline is about 5 weeks away now, isn't it? [10:33] hrm [10:33] martinald, but is that a reason to give up our face ? [10:33] it depends. do you want more documentation? [10:33] Keybuk: UI freeze is 2 days away [10:33] the artwork is more like 5 weeks [10:34] the screenshots is not what is holding up any of the docs [10:34] mgalvin: taking screenshots is boring and tedious [10:34] martinald: sorry, I don't understand why you can't copy and paste the existing gnome screenshots? === mgalvin goes to read the rest conversation since i missed most of it [10:34] because they use the default theme [10:34] but is that worth giving up a well recognized branding ? [10:34] of course we want more documentation, but if your position is that the human theme is a major obstacle to creating new documentation, I'm not entirely convinced [10:34] which is only marginally different from the Human one [10:35] mdz_: it's a factor in it [10:35] and the screenshots could be replaced before artworkfreeze easily enough by the doc team [10:35] keybuk: because i assume that you want screenshots that represent ubuntu [10:35] during development, it doesn't really matter whether the colours are off [10:36] martinald: if you like, we can take a vote on this now, or we can discuss this again when we have more representation from the documentation team [10:36] the doc team can fix that before release [10:36] martinald, is it not possible to download and install the human theme? [10:36] <\sh> hmmm....the functionality is not changing with the theme, right? so documentation of the functionality has nothing to do with the theme...and the doc team could use different color/style themes [10:36] <\sh> and I think breezy is stable enough to do some doc work with it.. [10:36] we're mostly hypothesizing here without input from more people working on documentation [10:36] keybuk: documentation is something that should be really easy to get started on. do a page now and then leave and do some more in a few weeks === robitaille thinks this discussion should have been done on the doc mailing list [10:37] and documentation tends to be best done by people who are not highly technical and therefore won't want to install an unstable branch [10:37] breezy is plenty stable to work on, i have been using it for weeks [10:37] martinald, I really dont see why it;s bnot possible to download and install human [10:37] martinald, you know that acomplete new default icon theme is planned ? gnome screenshots will be worthless if it makes it into breezy [10:37] right, but I really don't see why screenshots being blue or brown is causing a problem for people getting started on documentation? [10:37] \sh: it reduces consistency. users will be confused to why some screenshots or blue and some are brown [10:37] gah [10:37] I'm off [10:37] have fun all [10:38] ogra_: that would be a terrible idea. i really hope that does not go through. [10:38] martinald, lots of people working very hard on it since before hoary... [10:38] Have there been any actual user problem reports about that? If so, I haven't noticed... [10:38] we should wrap this up. I'm happy to defer a vote until a future meeting in order to allow time to get more input from the documentation community [10:38] martinald, and i actually hope we once can get rid of the dusty gnome icons [10:38] martinald: even thought the screenshot are tedious, it will not take long to do if we split up the work load [10:39] mgalvin: the documentation team is vastly understaffed. it needs to be made easier to join and contribute [10:39] having unique artwork is very important and worth the extra work imho [10:39] mdz_: me also, we should get the doc team and art teams in for this -- it's their area of expertise [10:39] its very easy to contrib, just sumit patches === ogra_ guesses you can do all needed screenshots for the docs in one afternoon if you know what you need [10:39] ogra_: i would hope ubuntu would liase with gnome upstream to fix any issues with artwork instead of forking [10:40] ogra_: i'm not denying that, but it raises the barrier to entry which is not needed [10:40] Keybuk: agreed [10:40] mdz_: agreed also [10:40] how is taking screenshots a barrier? [10:40] martinald, but the reasons you give are a bit weak in my eyes... screenshots are easily done if you have a detailed plan what you need [10:41] martinald: matthew east and corey burger are good contacts for the doc team [10:41] martinald: let me know if you have trouble getting a discussion going [10:41] martinald, volvoguy and AndyFitz for the art team [10:41] martinald: you can reach me at mdz@ubuntu.com [10:41] andy fitz-simon is a good contact for the art team [10:41] mgalvin: as i've said twice now, screenshots are often of new features which are not in the stable build of ubuntu and it would really help if we could use existing gnome ones [10:42] martinald: start up a thread on -doc, i am sure everyone would reply [10:42] ok, that's the end of the published agenda [10:42] does anyone have any other business to discuss? [10:42] martinald, but how should gnome shots reflect new features we develop in ubuntu ? [10:42] right ok i'll do that [10:42] mdz_, did we go over the regular maintainer candidates ? [10:42] ogra_: because 99% of the time gnome features are exactly the same as ubuntu and it would save time/effort [10:43] ok thanks for discussing guys [10:43] ogra_: yes === ogra_ cant remember seeing comadreja or bddebian discussed for example [10:43] <\sh> hmmm..what about mbreit? [10:43] \sh, CC issue [10:43] ogra_: they weren't on the agenda? [10:44] <\sh> mdz_: they are [10:44] <\sh> MaintainerCandidates [10:44] mdz_, they are on maintainer candidates [10:44] \sh: i thought i need to be a member first? and since mark is not here [10:44] they also aren't here === sistpoty waves [10:44] <- stefan Potyra [10:44] <\sh> mbreit: I read the log from last CC like that, that he agreed if you do constant work [10:44] ok, some people were on the main agenda while others were only on MaintainerCandidates [10:44] let's go down the list [10:44] RajasekarKarthik? [10:45] no idea, never sen him [10:45] sistpoty: ok, you're next [10:45] <\sh> I don't know him either... [10:45] Stefan Potyra applying for MOTU [10:45] sistpoty has a good history of contributions [10:45] i'd lik to see more packaging from sistpoty [10:46] but his revu work is great and brought MOTU a big step forward [10:46] sistpoty: can you tell us about your work so far? [10:46] there isn't much on your wiki page [10:46] about packages made? [10:47] well, haven't done really many packages, rather trying to fix some things on unmetdeps... apart from that i try to concentrate on revu2 [10:47] development work that you have done in Ubuntu [10:47] sistpoty, you should list even the unmet deps packages you fixed [10:47] its packaging work [10:47] what sort of work have you done on those two projects? [10:47] <\sh> sistpoty and siretart are the hard devs for revu and revu2...which is a really amazing tool and speeds up our reviewing work [10:49] I'd like to see more packaging work before approving for upload [10:49] same here... but kudos for revu [10:49] while your development work looks good, packaging can be a bit more subtle and it can take a little time to pick it up [10:49] sistpoty: we appreciate the work you have done on revu; it seems to be very successful [10:50] thanks, got no problem with that ;) [10:50] work with motu and have stuff sponsored in, and I'm sure you'll be ready in no time! [10:50] sistpoty: the idea of applying for MOTU membership is to participate directly in packaging work through uploads, though, and we don't have much information about that aspect of your work or your plans for it [10:51] is it possible i could ask one thing while I'm here? [10:51] sistpoty: would you like to come back at some point in the future? [10:51] sure... i really enjoy packaging and helping out MOTU's where i can [10:51] martinald: a quick question, yes; we can't get bogged down in a discussion at this point though [10:51] is there any screenshots/more info about the OEMinstaller? [10:51] sistpoty: let's defer the decision for now, then [10:52] mdz_: agreed [10:52] martinald: that would be more appropriate to ask on #ubuntu-devel; we need to continue with the meeting here [10:52] mdz_, JorgeDaza is already motu [10:52] martinald: Kamion is the best person to talk to about it, but he's away on holiday until monday [10:52] mdz_, (comadreja) [10:52] right ok thanks. [10:53] ogra_: ok, so we should move on to BarrydeFreese? [10:53] yup [10:53] <\sh> bddebian [10:53] I seem to recall considering him at some point in the past [10:53] whom i'd love to see approved avan in absence [10:53] <\sh> he can't be here because of family business...3 kids [10:53] even [10:54] <\sh> he did a great job during MoM [10:54] has he applied for MOTU in the past? [10:54] <\sh> yes [10:54] mdz_: 2005-07-26 [10:54] yes, and he was approved [10:54] he did a lot of work for MOTU helps out where he can and i trust his packaging skills... he was ver patient and is in the team since quite some time (several months) [10:54] crimsun, nope he was deferred [10:55] ogra_: oh, due to absence? === mdz_ checks the log [10:55] <\sh> crimsun: no [10:55] crimsun, nope, because he felt not ready iirc [10:55] <\sh> crimsun: we wanted to see more of his packaging skills [10:55] mdz_: around 10:30 [10:56] Keybuk: yeah, skimming [10:56] ok, so he was deferred pending more information it looks like [10:56] <\sh> yeah [10:56] <\sh> and I uploaded a lot of stuff for him [10:57] and since then, you (\sh and ogra) have both been pleased with his work? [10:57] ogra_: When Barry takes to something, he tends to stick around with it for years. He's been doing little jobs for a few GNU projects I'm involved with for a long time. [10:57] he is very anxious to do something wrong and handles all tasks very carful [10:57] yup [10:57] jbailey: so you would support him as MOTU as well? [10:57] <\sh> mdz_: he is very carefull and is asking before he is doing something wrong [10:57] mdz_: Yes. He's very careful and is always good about asking for help when he gets in over his head with a problem. === ajmitch would also support him, after working with him for a bit on MOTU work [10:58] Keybuk: vote? [10:59] I'd like to wait until he's around, there's some stuff he said he'd be doing and I want to check what he feels about it before I decide. [10:59] so I vote for defer until he's present [10:59] Keybuk: Might be hard for him to attend a TB meeting given the time of day. [11:00] it sounds like he has made a positive impression within the team since his last appearance [11:00] yup [11:01] <\sh> yeah...he is a team player actually I worked very good with him... [11:01] the official process is to appear "in person" for consideration by the TB, but we have considered others without their presence [11:01]