=== theantix [n=henry@168-103-148-90.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:06] martinald: what kind of reply do you expect? version? if it's installable? [12:06] is it going to be shipped with breezy? [12:07] yep [12:07] ah k [12:07] martinald: http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/o/openoffice.org2/openoffice.org2_1.9.121-1ubuntu11/changelog [12:08] cool. will it be out of beta by the time breezy is released? [12:08] that's probably a question for oo.o2 guys :) [12:09] right, let's say it's not - will updated versions be backported for breezy [12:10] martinald, we only backport security and dataloss fixes.... everything beyond that would be a question to the backports team guys [12:11] hm [12:11] like in debian [12:11] is this policy going to change? I asked a while about it and iirc there was going to be some discussion about it [12:11] we are 2 months before 5.10 and people already want to backport stuff ... [12:11] a stable release is sable... [12:11] stable even [12:12] seb128, yes *sigh* [12:12] martinald: backports are here for people who wants to update to new versions === rbelem [n=rodrigo@201008169142.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:12] martinald, thats why there is a backports team now [12:12] yes, for example let's say it doesn't ship and there is a few critical bugs that are neither security nor dataloss but provide serious pain for a good chunk of users [12:13] we backport fixes [12:13] does that mean users will have to actively go out and install backports? === jcole [n=jcole@atlwebproxy2.core.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] as opposed to just clicking on the ubuntu update applet [12:13] no, fixes are backported for such bugs [12:13] martinald, we have a official backports team, no need to "go out" [12:13] how do i trick apt into thinking a dependency exists? === michele [n=michele@host4-177.pool8256.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] you don't [12:14] seb128: sure, but let's say there was a problem with the word importer that was neither dataloss nor security but failed on a quite a few documents [12:14] jcole, dependencys are there for a reason [12:14] would you backport the fix for that? [12:14] martinald: not for a stable release [12:14] don't you think that's a huge problem? === luis [n=louie@c-66-31-46-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] martinald: since the patch for that is probably > 1000 lines [12:15] ogra: ya, but apt doesn't see a virtual package that is installed... so i need to tell apt it is installed (cause it really is) [12:15] martinald: new versions also give new bugs [12:16] i thought it was something like... apt-get install synaptic -o APT::Get::Fake-Provides="libapt-pkg-libc6.3-5-3.9" [12:17] seb: true. but say you ship openoffice 1.9.151 or something, but it has a bug that stops a lot of word documents opening, but it's fixed in openoffice 2.0. surely it would be a better idea to ship that update? [12:17] jcole, rather reinstall the virtual package so that apt sees it [12:17] martinald: if you would allow such updates, what would make a stable release stable? [12:17] ogra: --reinstall ? [12:18] martinald, how do you guarantee that the 90 language packs we ship for it still work, how do you make sure it doesnt break other things ? === Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] martinald: this has been discuted again and again, you have to put limits. Everybody clames that the new version of his favorite software fixes some stuff ... but experience shows it brings also new issues [12:18] good point. but surely suggesting users have to wait 6 months to get major bugs fixed is a problem [12:18] martinald, a stable release has recieved months of bugfixing and testing work... why should we break that ? [12:19] martinald, major bugs get fixes [12:19] martinald: that's why we try to fix major bugs *before* the release [12:19] i've just pointed out a bug that wouldn't probably get fixed... [12:19] martinald: you are basically saying "the version from 2 weeks before 2.0 is total crap and they automagically changed that in 2 weeks because they changed the number to 2.0" [12:19] no i'm not [12:19] i'm saying there is likely to be bugfixes in the final release [12:19] martinald: and new bug will not be grabbed [12:20] martinald: you can say that for any new version of a sotfware, it's supposed to fix bugs ... [12:20] yes but generally new software fixes bugs surely [12:20] martinald, you showed today that you dont like our theme, our color selection and our policy to handle stable releases, may i ask what you like on ubuntu ? [12:20] martinald: you need to run a siftware some time to know it's stable [12:20] that's uncalled for, i was simply debating ogra [12:20] just out of interest ... [12:21] martinald: if a bug is really annoying to a lot of users it will be spotted and fixed before the release [12:21] what do i like? many things. i love the hardware detection, installer, use of latest gnome etc etc [12:21] martinald, thanks :) [12:22] elmo: please sync bb from debian (aalib and slang2 transition, ftbfs fix for gcc 4.0) [12:22] rtcm: we both know that sometimes bugs that are critical will be unspotted [12:22] martinald: btw, if you do want new versions, breezy is for you :-) But today you told us that it is too unstable [12:22] pitti: there is a bug in colony 3 which means i can't boot it [12:22] martinald, critical bugs recieve fixes, even in stable releases [12:22] that's why i'm trying the nightly cd [12:22] martinald: that's exactly what would happen if we put new versions into stable releases [12:23] surely a new openoffice bug wouldn't break booting? [12:23] martinald: no but it could crash by example [12:23] martinald: it pulls in new dependencies, and so on, so it might break your desktop, which is equally bad [12:23] martinald: some new stable firefox broke extensions by example [12:23] martinald, but who guarantees that it doesnt break all docs out there for example, because the fix breaks doc handling ... [12:24] seb128: meh [12:24] martinald: right, ffox is a nice example [12:24] the problem is that on windows or mac you could get a binary and install it if you wanted it fixed, but you can't do that on linux [12:24] martinald: we *did* put a new upstream version into stable, and it caused lots of trouble [12:24] pitti: true [12:24] martinald, you can, thats why we hae a backports team... [12:25] ogra: ok, but does the backports team backport every new release of main software? [12:25] martinald: epiphany broke, some extensions broke, some packages were rendered ftbfs, enigmail broke after tbird upgrade, etc. [12:25] but that doesnt guarantee the stability we can guarantee after months of work [12:25] martinald: once you start, you are in a mess [12:25] martinald: if you want every new version don't use stable [12:25] martinald, the team backports waht gets requested by users [12:25] pitti: epiphany/warty is still b0rked (now than you speak about that) [12:26] martinald: well, you can grab binaries from OOo's website and install those [12:26] seb128: yes, just thought about that [12:26] martinald, but it cant track sideeffects and doesnt test as intensive as we do it [12:26] martinald: so you can have the latest version, as you do on mac and win [12:26] what i mean is that say i have a buisness customer is using xyz package which has a bug in hoary which is uncommon but for him means that ubuntu is unusable [12:26] but the bug is not common enough for it to be backported [12:26] what does he do? [12:26] martinald: then a specific backport is what he needs [12:27] martinald: if you sell service you can backport fixes for issues reported by users [12:27] martinald: major software like gaim, ffox, etc. is usually backported === dredg finally loses his temper with the whole 'trying to do things with the network at boot time when there is no network' [12:27] seb: ok, ignore customer, replace it with 'friend' [12:27] a small script running ethtool suits my purposes for now [12:27] martinald: do a backport yourself or ask for one :-) [12:28] i can't backport myself. and there isn't any demand from the community to do it (being a very uncommon bug) [12:28] but between now and the kickoff for breezy+1 i think i'll be trying to come up with a single standard way of testing for a network link [12:28] on mac/windows i could say 'ok, just go to www.project.net and install the latest version over the top' [12:28] martinald, if you ask the backports team, it will do the backport fo you [12:28] martinald: you can do the same with Ubuntu [12:28] thats what its there for [12:29] or you can always hire somebody to do the backport... [12:29] fine, say it's a charity then [12:29] well... is network-manager in universe or main? [12:29] and what ogra said, that's what I meant with " martinald: do a backport yourself or ask for one :-)" [12:29] what you want backporteD [12:29] martinald: what do you do on IE when outlook has a bug not fixed by MS ? [12:29] Mez: TEH WORLD [12:29] Mez: nevermind, just theory :-) [12:29] seb: that's different. [12:29] Mez, nothing yet, but martinald will ask you for openoffice as soon as breezy is released ;) [12:29] martinald: but you see, the backport guys are listening :-) [12:30] martinald, email me - martin@sourceguru.net or ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com regarding backports stuff [12:30] ogra: lol === sean_ [n=sean@d209-107-101-94.abhsia.telus.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [12:30] martinald: how so? [12:30] martinald: there is some case you have bugs and that's all [12:30] because in my scenario there is a fix availiable but due to the OS i'm running it's not available. in that situation there is no fix available regardless of OS [12:30] martinald: you can't fix every single minor bug happening for anyone [12:31] martinald, but we just prove that it *is* available... Mez will backport what you ask for [12:31] "ask your local backports dealer" [12:31] hehe :-) [12:31] martinald, the app just wont be as heavily tested as the one in the release [12:32] martinald: use unstable so [12:32] :) [12:32] ogra: ok. but what happens if mez for whatever reason can't or won't backport [12:32] martinald: so you have every new version, good way to learn that they don't only fix bugs [12:33] martinald: ask/pay another person to do it for you [12:33] martinald, if he won't just poke him even more or send him some rowdys :) [12:33] seb128: and that's GOOD [12:33] ;) [12:33] seb128: imagine what happened if, say, from warty on all upstreams only fixed bugs [12:33] seb128: breezy would be bug free, boring, and we would be jobless [12:33] yeah [12:33] martinald, if he cant, he has the whole distro team to ask for help [12:34] pitti: why do you think I break the panel? Want to keep my job :p [12:34] hah, i *knew* its intended [12:34] well maybe you have me convinced that backports is a good idea [12:34] *g* [12:34] and that i'm fretting over nothing :) [12:34] i assume backports are not turned on by default? [12:35] nop [12:35] how hard is it to add backports? [12:35] for the average user [12:35] martinald, but for your customer, it will be you who has the risk for newly introduced bugs... [12:35] add 1 lines to the sources [12:35] 1 line [12:35] and click on synaptic update [12:35] ok that's too complex for most users [12:36] (people are never happy) [12:36] clicking two times ? is to hard for an admin in a company at your customer ? [12:36] i'm not saying for me ogra, i'm saying for mrs joe smith who has a problem with openoffice and would like the fix that is waiting in backports [12:36] mr* [12:36] martinald: is it easier to go after some random installer on the net and clicking through an installer wizard? [12:37] rtcm, yes [12:37] martinald: synaptic is not harded than a website [12:37] I don't agree [12:37] martinald: if it's too complex to add backports, then it's maybe too complex/worrying to actually install/use backports? [12:37] I mean, backports do not have the same level of QA as the rest of the archive [12:38] martinald: upgrading software to new versions on a stable system is not a good idea that's why it doesn't work out of the box [12:38] well i was thinking there should be a checkbox in the update-manager saying 'Would you like Ubuntu to search for updates which don't impede security or dataloss'? [12:38] or something [12:38] IMHO you can't have dead-easy and cuting-edge [12:39] martinald: you want to push people to unstability and new bug, feel free but don't expect the distro to do that for you [12:39] well this is the problem [12:39] use unstable if you want that [12:39] if you don't solve this then there will be a large amount of users who don't understand computers very well but have broken software [12:39] and they go to the software site and they are told there is an update available [12:39] but they don't know how to get it [12:40] they don't bring new bugs and keep the stable tested version [12:40] that's good :) [12:40] martinald: btw, you can enable backports in synaptic (or at least it would be easy to allow that) [12:41] GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS! [12:41] pitti: synaptic is still too complex for most regular users to use [12:41] HEY HEY HEY jdub [12:41] Hey jdub [12:41] mornign jdub [12:41] martinald: these users just use the stable version and the security updates === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089D124.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:41] martinald: ok, but for these users it is also too dangerous to confront them with backports in the first place [12:41] seb128: right [12:41] pitti but on windows/mac users do this all the time [12:42] with very little trouble [12:42] why should it be different on linux? [12:42] and they complain all the time about stuff not working right [12:42] martinald: no, they don't [12:42] I don't agree with the very little trouble === mvo thinks that might be the reason why those systems are so wonderfully stable [12:42] they get bugs, they complain, etc [12:42] i think you'll find they do [12:42] martinald: in fact many of them don't ever install *any* software [12:42] pitti: that isn't true either [12:42] martinald, most win users i know still run win98 [12:42] martinald: my mother, the folks in my father's company, etc. - they don't touch anything [12:43] martinald: you are speaking about people going on the web to get new software, these people are able to click on 2 synaptic options [12:43] ok fair enough but you are not looking at the bigger picture [12:43] martinald: many people aren't version junkies - they use what they have and get used to bugs and itches [12:43] martinald, with the SW they had on it in the first place [12:43] the fact is the majority of windows users use XP [12:43] which is very stable [12:43] it's true. for the majority of users who do X number of tasks, provided that nothing breaks they will never change the software [12:43] i doubt that === AndyFitz [n=andy@CPE-203-51-237-217.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] no, in companies etc. many folks still use 2K or even 98 [12:43] pitti: look at the statistics [12:44] well over 60% of windows machines are XP [12:44] martinald: 40% is a good part [12:44] and all new computers are sold with xp now, or 95% [12:44] martinald, in my last company XP was a no go, they still use 2k all over the place and that wnt change the next years [12:44] martinald: and how many corporate XP users will ever touch the software? === michele [n=michele@host4-177.pool8256.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [12:44] martinald: most of them can't even [12:44] corporate is not the same [12:44] also private ones [12:44] my whole family never touches their boxes [12:45] why should they? [12:45] well 80m+ users have installed firefox [12:45] martinald: my gf had used Debian in a pre-woody version for 3 years without touching anything [12:46] fair enough pitti you can throw all this anecdoatal evidence at me but i am telling you the raw statistics [12:46] martinald: your statistics [12:46] martinald, which statistics ? [12:46] martinald, 80 downloads and anyway, they installed FF because the builtin browser is crap === _mvo_ [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] have links ? [12:46] martinald: most version and install junkies are young home users [12:46] www.spreadfirefox.com [12:46] martinald: which know a bit about computers [12:47] martinald, about 95% of users using XP [12:47] martinald: whoever is able to download new windows software and find/install cracks for it certainly knows how to enable backports for Ubuntu [12:47] i said 95% of new computers are sold with XP [12:47] not the firefox promotion page, and please no microsofty study [12:47] right [12:47] that's a guess [12:47] martinald: hear pitti, he's reaching the point now [12:47] martinald: that's true, but doesn't change our claim [12:47] martinald, so why do you say its based on statistics ? [12:48] if its a guess === pitti speaks about stable versions and uploads PostgreSQL 8.1 alpha to Debian experimental :-) [12:48] hihi [12:48] do you honestly think that less than 95% of new computers sold with windows are not sold with XP? [12:48] martinald: I don't doubt that [12:48] martinald, you said most users *use* XP [12:48] and i will provide statistics [12:48] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp [12:48] and that i doubt very much [12:48] bit biased that one [12:49] martinald: but most of its users won't fiddle with their configs, also not in XP [12:49] give me a real statistic, including all continents [12:49] ogra_: even if they did, it doesn't change our target user for stable releases [12:49] whether the stable version is called hoary, 2K or XP is irrelevant [12:49] many people just stay with what they have [12:50] martinald: by beeing a new version addict you get bugs for sure [12:50] pitti, nope, and its hilarious offtopic for this channel anyway, lets stop it *now* [12:50] (apart from computer freaks, of course) [12:50] ogra_: ok, rikght :-) [12:50] ;) [12:51] http://wesnerm.blogs.com/net_undocumented/2005/07/windows_markets.html [12:51] which says xp is at ~40% [12:51] so i was slightly wrong [12:52] but it shows that only 5% of users use 95 and 98 [12:52] perhaps someone can clear this up for me: what is the target audience of ubuntu? [12:52] that means 60% of users use software > 5 years old [12:53] use an OS > 5 years old [12:53] right [12:53] many will stick with windows 2000 precisely because it lets them run all their new software [12:53] if software forced them to upgrade to XP they would [12:53] but that will be similar for Office etc. [12:53] well i don't know [12:53] i shall see :) [12:53] martinald: sane people I believe :-) === mvo__ [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:54] i can't find any stats on office marketshare === mvo__ goes to bed now because his network hates him anyway [12:55] mvo__, and i thought my line was crappy today... [12:55] good idea [12:55] night all [12:55] good night everynody [12:55] ok night guys [12:55] ogra_: usually it's not _that_ bad. but tonight ... oh well [12:56] mvo__, they changed the dslam two days ago here... i drop once an hour since... [12:56] mvo__, night :) [12:56] it was just pointed out to me that our kernel is built with 3.4, but our default compiler is 4.0 [12:56] jdub, yes [12:56] we don't really have a nice way of getting, say, "kernel-build-essential" ;) [12:56] that'll be a gotcha for some users [12:56] jdub, poke fabbione [12:57] night ogra_ (and everyone) === Kronoss [n=kronoss@FW-7-250.go.retevision.es] has left #ubuntu-devel ["exit(0)"] === AndyFitz [n=andy@CPE-203-51-237-217.qld.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mitsuhiko is now known as mitsuhikod === rbelem is now known as rbelem-afk === dmk [n=dmk@host81-156-29-150.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dmk [n=dmk@host81-156-29-150.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === jcole [n=jcole@atlwebproxy2.core.hp.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:16] jdub, should we put a seperator between the categories and g-a-i on the applications menu? It looks quite quished [01:16] the separator was intended - if it's not there, please file a bug [01:16] Hmm. So me and my boss (long time UI designer) just sat down in front of OS X and argued about UI design. [01:17] It has occured to me that listing Home Directory in the Places menu is not helpful. [01:17] OS X does it too. ;) [01:18] jdub, is that -menus or g-a-i? [01:20] wasabi: you have to have *some* way to get to home, so... where else are you going to put it? :/ [01:21] Why? [01:21] What do you need to use your home directory for? [01:21] Yeah this argument sucks. [01:22] Okay, my reason for bringing this up is because my boss expressed confusion at there being two differnet ways to get to Documents [01:22] And he wasn't sure what the difference between the folders were. [01:22] Weither one was for everybody, or one was for just himself. [01:22] home directory should be desktop [01:23] that solves that problem [01:23] but makes a lot of people whinge [01:23] my desktop would be too cluttered [01:23] spacey: that's not an inherent problem with it [01:23] wasabi_: I'm pretty sure this has been done to death upstream in gnome, and this was the only way for the desktop and unix to meet in the middle ;-) [01:24] that's a problem with how you manage files [01:24] yeah [01:24] heh [01:24] HrdwrBoB, i know your right :D [01:24] I just enjoy the UI paradigm arguments usually. [01:24] wasabi_: did you find any low-hanging fruit in OS X that we could borrow for ubuntu? [01:25] the last time I looked at it, it seemed like the major differences between it and gnome fell under the category of "bling" [01:25] mdz, pop-ups for fn keys [01:25] since I've changed home to be desktop, I use nautilus a lot more, since I can actually get to all my files in a sensible logical way from all access methods [01:25] Well, one of the next complains was about what happens with unknown file systems. OS X fails this. You download a .sit file. [01:25] And try to open it. [01:25] And a new user is going to be confronted with a list of possible programs to open it with. [01:25] Burgundavia: how does that work? [01:25] And most of them are going to be useless. [01:26] is the default for images now gthumb? [01:26] mdz, when you hit a fn key (brightness or sound), it pops something up showing the change [01:26] And it will be set to open by default, by default. [01:26] because the default image viewer is completely useless [01:26] mdz, we already have a mute one [01:26] Burgundavia: we only recently got the keys working at all ;-) [01:26] on laptops anyway [01:26] We don't allow unknown file types to be open at all on a double click. [01:26] just noticed that [01:26] mdz_, hey, I shot for the moon. LEO is not far enough [01:26] Our error message just sucks. [01:27] wasabi, the huge one? [01:27] Can't Display Location \ Couldn't display "/home/jhaltom/ssl/ISIdatapro.key". [01:27] No, that one sucks too, btw === rbelem-afk is now known as rbelem [01:27] mdz_, have you seen our mute key pop-up [01:28] no [01:28] I don't have a mute key [01:28] ah [01:29] Burgundavia: i "designed" that mute key popup [01:29] tseng, it is quite nice, one minor bug [01:29] Burgundavia: it sucked worse before, i filed a bug on several inconsistancies [01:29] i think it was hadess fixed it up [01:29] tseng, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14062 [01:30] Burgundavia: panel [01:30] why did you report it there, out of curiosity [01:30] jdub, I will change it then [01:30] tseng, I have never seen it, though it was something mjg59 did [01:30] Burgundavia: no, that was part of the old bug [01:30] ok [01:30] what would happen was, it set the volume to zero [01:30] tseng, got a bug # for me? [01:30] as "mute" [01:30] ah [01:31] now it really mutes it and saves the stat [01:31] e [01:31] I have a better idea [01:31] i guess you want to go one step further and *look* like mute = 0 volume [01:31] it should show you the level, but grey it out [01:31] becaute mute != 0 volume [01:31] mdz: hi! is it a possibility that some apps could have built earlier on amd64 than i386 and then still have got libcairo1 depends (timer-applet for instance)? [01:31] HrdwrBoB, yes it does [01:31] HrdwrBoB: right. [01:31] from a user perspective it is [01:32] Nafallo: it's fairly unlikely; the usual method is to wait for the package to be built on all 3 architectures and then do the transition [01:32] as a user, I also want to know what the volume is though [01:32] Nafallo: if there is a specific case you're referring to, please name it [01:32] mdz: I did, timer-applet on amd64 depends on libcairo1 here. [01:32] there may still be packages in universe which haven't transitioned yet [01:32] Burgundavia: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140937 [01:33] it was rebuilt as ubuntu2, but on amd64 that depends on libcairo1 it seems. [01:33] Ok I have low hanging fruit, mdz. [01:33] Nafallo: that's because -0ubuntu2 hasn't built on amd64 yet [01:34] OS X has the dock bar. One of the things that makes it way better than any window list is you know that when you put an icon on it, it stays where you left it. If you put it way to the left, it stays there. And it lets you quickly open your programs. [01:34] tseng, where both the bug reported and your bug fixed? [01:34] It's annoying using a windows list where the order of the icons is based on the order you open the programs. [01:34] mdz: aha. that was to easy to figure out for me I guess ;-) [01:34] Burgundavia: yes [01:34] mdz: thanx :-) [01:34] tseng, ok [01:34] Possible solution: Let users drag window list buttons to different positions. [01:34] And remember them. Somehow. [01:35] tseng, mine is actually about the visual state, not about what it actually does [01:35] Burgundavia: it makes alot more sense to file your bug @ gnome than ubuntu to me [01:35] Nafallo: in fact it failed to build on amd64 and powerpc both [01:35] http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/timer-applet/1.1-0ubuntu2/ [01:35] tseng, I would have, but I didn't realize that it was a non-ubuntu specific thing [01:35] Burgundavia: ok. [01:35] Probably just store something like "this app should be at position 4" and do a best effort to fulfill that. [01:36] or maybe "this app should be to the left of this other app and to the right of this one". [01:36] tseng, so the control-center actually provides the pop-up? [01:36] Burgundavia: yes [01:36] yay, amd64 livefs build is working again [01:36] or it did however many releases ago i filed that bug === Nafallo smells give-backs :-P [01:37] Nafallo: i smell i told you it was ftbfs :P [01:37] tseng: did you? :-) [01:37] something like that, yes. [01:38] but im starving, better go === dooglus [n=dooglus@rincevent.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:39] I'm not sure I would want to call that ftbfs :-P [02:23] anyone notice metacity crashing all over the place? === dredg shakes head [02:23] anything in .xsession-errors? [02:24] not about that [02:26] i'm afraid that i've no idea === rtcm [n=jman@217.129.142.72] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gasman [n=Joe@bgp996736bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jammcq [n=jam@pcp09011044pcs.watrfd01.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ealden [n=ealden@219.90.91.173] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Robinho_Peixoto [n=robinho@201.32.141.247] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vuntz_ [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gasman [n=Joe@bgp996736bgs.nanarb01.mi.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [03:18] mozilla-openoffice.org -> tell me this is not a plugin for viewing OOo documents in the web browser... [03:18] the description hints at that, but doesn't really confirm the suspicion === lexhider [n=lexhider@220.235.212.61] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lexhider [n=lexhider@220.235.212.61] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [03:30] Eh. That plugin sounds sucky. [03:30] I am really getting PISSED at the totem plugin. [03:30]