[12:25] <doko> mdz: bugs which should be fixed for breezy, should have severity major?
[12:26] <mdz> doko: severity reflects the bug's impact on Ubuntu and users, priority its relative importance compared to other bugs of the same severity, and target milestone which release it should be fixed in
[12:26] <mdz> for the release we try to minimize the number of bugs >= major
[12:27] <crispin> mdz: if that is the case, shouldn't bug 290 be at least major ? It stops my entire computer from booting
[12:27] <doko> mdz: i.e. 14092, which seems to be minor for devlopers, but it's annoying for a user
[12:27] <mdz> crispin: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs explains the severities
[12:27] <mdz> doko: ^^ also
[12:29] <mdz> crispin: how exactly does that bug prevent your computer from booting?  is it a diskless terminal?
[12:29] <doko> so does amd64 account for "a large portion of Ubuntu users" ?
[12:30] <crispin> no, but my network card isn't raised, which means NIS and NFS home dirs don't come up, and then one of the later init scripts locks up
[12:30] <crispin> I have had to manually add an extra init script to get the network card raised
[12:30] <mdz> doko: by downloads I think it's about 5-10%
[12:30] <crispin> bug 13832 was my original report
[12:30] <elmo> mdz: eh, downloads of what?
[12:30] <mdz> elmo: ISOs
[12:31] <mdz> via bittorrent
[12:31] <mdz> the last time I looked, which was admittedly a while ago
[12:31] <mdz> why, has it changed?
[12:31] <elmo> oh, I thought you meant apt
[12:32] <mdz> elmo: do you have those numbers?  that'd be a much larger sample size
[12:32] <elmo> i'm processing some now
[12:32] <elmo> on a 15Gb logfile.  yay lack of logrotate *cough*
[12:32] <mdz> yay for LFS support in apache
[12:33] <jdub> seb128: oh, can we just sync djvu from sid?
[12:34] <jdub> seb128: wanted to explicitly enable all of them (particularly pixbuf and tiff)
[12:34] <seb128> jdub: probably, I've not tried to build it yet but that should be fine
[12:34] <jdub> also looking  into t1
[12:34] <seb128> jdub: I've enable tiff afaik
[12:35] <seb128> jdub: did you ask mdz about djvulibre new version? it has a soname change but no rdepends out of evince 
[12:35] <jdub> yeah
[12:35] <jdub> elmo: please sync djvu from sid :-)
[12:35] <elmo> ok to override ubuntu changes?
[12:35] <jdub> seb?
[12:36] <jdub> hrm, i think that's going to be caught up with C++ transition issues
[12:37] <Nafallo> jdub: hi! do you have an ETA for the swedish mailinglist? :-)
[12:38] <seb128> elmo: yeah, go ahead
[12:38] <jdub> mailing lists is #1 on my list as soon as i start work ;)
[12:38] <seb128> Debian has transitionned too
[12:38] <jdub> (like, give me maybe 1/2 hour ;)
[12:38] <Keybuk> have we moved the mailing lists off rince yet?
[12:38] <Nafallo> jdub: hehe, oki nice :-)
[12:38] <elmo> 24032435 i386
[12:38] <elmo> 1249645 amd64
[12:38] <elmo>  392432 powerpc
[12:38] <elmo> Keybuk: no
[12:38] <jdub> Keybuk: nup
[12:38] <Keybuk> bwahaha, wasn't that supposed to happen ages ago?
[12:39] <jdub> also going to start a moderator team
[12:39] <elmo> Keybuk: yes
[12:39] <mdz> elmo: wow
[12:40] <elmo> yeah
[12:40] <mdz> that's quite different from my old numbers
[12:40] <Keybuk> good showing from amd64
[12:40] <mdz> amd64 is still about 5%
[12:40] <elmo> keybuk: 5% is good?
[12:40] <mdz> but powerpc is only about 1.5%
[12:40] <Keybuk> reasonably
[12:40] <jdub> there are so many OS X users to liberate though
[12:40] <mdz> rather than 4% or so that I saw before
[12:40] <mdz> maybe people are moving from ppc to i386
[12:41] <mdz> or maybe powerpc users are nuts about bittorrent
[12:41] <Keybuk> there's a limited market for amd64, those that have houses large enough to put them a long way away from the bedroom
[12:41] <mdz> or maybe a lot of powerpc users are on dialup
[12:41] <Keybuk> otherwise you roast in your bed, and can't sleep from the noise
[12:41] <mdz> computers don't belong in bedrooms
[12:41] <jdub> mdz: got any shipit arch stats?
[12:42] <elmo> Keybuk: eh, they're not any noiser than P4's ?
[12:42] <jdub> the only computer i'd consider putting in the bedroom is something for pia to plug her pda into
[12:42] <Keybuk> yes, but our primary market still haven't moved out from home ;)
[12:42] <elmo> and you can get amd64 laptops now
[12:42] <elmo> trying on a less "SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME" log file
[12:42] <mdz> jdub: no, I don't deal with shipit at all
[12:45] <Keybuk> seb128: nautilus is being very crashy today
[12:46] <seb128> not the first to say that :/
[12:46] <seb128> no issue here
[12:46] <seb128> ARG, I hate .la files
[12:47] <seb128> $ grep glitz /usr/lib/*.la | sed 's/:.*//' | uniq | wc -l
[12:47] <seb128> 31
[12:47] <Keybuk> seems to be when copying files about
[12:47] <seb128> if we stop building cairo with glitz we have to rebuild a whole stack on stuff in the right order again :/
[12:52] <Nafallo> mdz: okey to bring in kismet 2005.08.R1? fixes two CANs.
[12:52] <elmo> Nafallo: ask a MOTMOTU
[12:52] <mdz> Nafallo: doesn't matter to me; it's universe
[12:52] <Nafallo> ah, oki.
[12:52] <seb128> Keybuk, doko: mdz: we used to build cairo with glitz. Now a pile of stuff built with cairo have a .la mentionning glitz.la and we want to build cairo without glitz ... what would you do?
[12:53] <seb128> keep the libcairo-dev Depends on libglitz-dev time to rebuild to avoid the FTBFSes is ugly?
[12:53] <Keybuk> it's an interesting problem isn't it
[12:53] <Keybuk> rebuild cairo and everything upwards :-/
[12:54] <ajmitch> elmo: afaik it's ogra, dholbach & a couple of delegates for UVF exceptions, something we have to clear up
[12:54] <seb128> yeah, that's going to be a mess
[12:54] <Keybuk> hmm, and metacity just crashed too
[12:57] <jdub> in libtool would make sense too
[12:57] <jdub> maybe
[12:57] <Keybuk> no such thing as "as-needed" for static libs
[12:57] <seb128> jdub: do you have an opinion on cairo/glitz?
[12:57] <Keybuk> which is why you have to list all the dep tree in the .la file
[12:57] <Keybuk> if you wanted to link statically to a lib that links with cairo, you need to link in libglitz
[12:57] <seb128> we should just drop .la files
[12:57] <doko> seb128: grep the archive and re-upload all packages mentioning glitz
[12:57] <Keybuk> no, we shouldn't
[12:57] <Keybuk> it's there for a reason
[12:57] <seb128> doko: they have to build the right order
[12:57] <Keybuk> if you drop the .la files, drop the .a files too
[12:57] <jdub> Keybuk: ugh, yucky
[12:58] <seb128> that's going to break builds for a week again
[12:58] <jdub> perhaps .la files should describe both situations :)
[12:58] <doko> .la files are evil, they are even used for loading libs using dlopen ...
[12:58] <jdub> seb128: i thought it was a runtime depend, so i'm a tad shocked by this problem :)
[01:01] <seb128> mdz: around?
[01:01] <mdz> seb128: yes
[01:02] <seb128> mdz: did you read about the cairo/glitz issue?
[01:02] <mdz> seb128: reading
[01:02] <mdz> seb128: what is the reason for building without glitz?
[01:03] <seb128> "   * Removed glitz backend as currently experimental and unsupported"
[01:03] <seb128> the Debian maintainer did that
[01:03] <mdz> how many packages affected?
[01:03] <seb128> I've 31 .la files mentionning it on my box
[01:04] <seb128> that's not a runtime issue for apps
[01:04] <seb128> but that's going to break builds because of .la mentionning glitz and cairo not bringing it
[01:10] <mdz> seb128: the best choice would seem to be to rebuild
[01:10] <mdz> we have scripts for this
[01:10] <seb128> the number of packages is not the issue
[01:11] <seb128> I just wanted to make sure that you don't need to have everything installable from desktop today or something because it will take some hours to rebuild
[01:11] <seb128> let's go for it 
[01:11] <elmo> DO IT, POP THE TRUNK
[01:33] <seb128> elmo: pango1.0 sync from incoming please
[01:36] <elmo> seb128: done
[01:36] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[01:37] <mdz> new rule: no more exact versioned deps on arch: all by arch: any :-P
[01:38] <mdz> that's the only reason this is inconvenient
[01:39] <seb128> mdz: what should be used instead?
[01:39] <mdz> seb128: now that is the question
[01:39] <seb128> we already talked about that for libgnome etc with pkg-gnome guys
[01:40] <seb128> the out of sync arch any/all is an issue for buildds every time
[01:40] <mdz> maybe we should allow arch: all packages to be at different versions on different architectures
[01:40] <elmo> it can be fixed in the archive
[01:40] <mdz> so the old arch: all stays around until the new arch: any is built
[01:40] <elmo> yeah, I worked out how to do that in katie a while ago
[01:41] <mdz> I'll add it to my launchpad wishlist ;-)
[01:42] <mdz> what did my departure message say?  I switched desktops and back and xchat was GONE
[01:43] <carstenh> 01:41:49 -!- mdz [n=mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net]  has quit 
[01:43] <carstenh>           [Remote closed the connection] 
[01:43] <mdz> that's the second time it's done that
[01:44] <mdz> seb128: have you seen any other xchat crash reports?
[01:44] <seb128> just from people using a notify plugin for it
[01:44] <seb128> is that your case?
[01:44] <seb128> <-- mdz has quit (Remote closed the connection)
[01:44] <seb128> it said
[01:45] <mdz> I don't think I am using any notify plugins
[01:45] <mdz> the only plugin I have is topicdiff.py
[01:45] <seb128> so that's a new one ... run it under gdb so next time you get a bt :)
[01:45] <mdz> I am
[01:46] <mdz> no symbols, though
[01:52] <ajmitch> elmo: sync python-imaging from sid, please
[01:53] <ajmitch> elmo: ah, that's a main package..
[01:58] <elmo> ajmitch: if you're not a main uploader, pls proxy through/get approval from  someone who is then
[01:59] <ajmitch> elmo: I'll ask doko, it's his debian package
[01:59] <Keybuk> topicdiff.py is mine
[02:00] <Keybuk> so it is flawless
[02:00] <Keybuk> obviously
[02:00] <Keybuk> but, more to the point, nobody changed the topic before mdz crashed
[02:16] <mjg59> Hrm. acpi-support has hit the archive, but hasn't been built
[02:16] <mjg59> Where are the buildd logs?
[02:17] <elmo> people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/ somewhere
[02:17] <elmo> missing b-ds
[02:18] <seb128> elmo: gtk+2.0 sync from incoming please
[02:18] <mjg59> Oh, bugger. Yes.
[02:18] <mjg59> Hngh.
[02:20] <elmo> seb128: done
[02:21] <seb128> thanks
[02:21] <seb128> Keybuk: where is this topicdiff.py ? :)
[02:22] <Keybuk> www.netsplit.com/software/topicdiff I think
[02:23] <seb128> thanks
[02:23] <mjg59> elmo: I've got a kernel workaround for the nx6125 clock running too fast, I'm in touch with HP over the temperature breakage and daniel's almost got the X crashes
[02:23] <wohaah> mdz, dude
[02:23] <wohaah> are you there?
[02:24] <elmo> mjg59: sweet
[02:24] <elmo> it'd rock if we could get it not completely sucking for breezy
[02:25] <mjg59> elmo: If we can't get a new BIOS for it by Breezy, I'll stick in a DMI quirk to disable the APIC
[02:27] <schweeb> mjg59: I noticed in the acpi-support or acpid updates the other day, you put in some sata stuff... anything useful for those of us w/ sata hard drives in our laptops?
[02:27] <jdub> run_away_run_away()
[02:28] <mjg59> schweeb: Useful in what way?
[02:28] <schweeb> like spinning down the hdd w/ laptop mode or anything? (I seem to remember that not working)
[02:29] <mjg59> Yes, that should work
[02:29] <mjg59> Man. I can't remember whether I uploaded this package or not.
[02:30] <elmo> that's encouraging...
[02:30] <mdz> the only use for the otherwise obnoxious .upload file
[02:30] <mjg59> Ah. It seems that I didn't.
[02:30] <mjg59> How odd.
[02:31] <mjg59> I must have copied it over to test, and never actually uploaded it
[02:31] <schweeb> hrm, wonder why acpi-support .22 hasn't made it to the archive yet
[02:31] <mjg59> schweeb: Because I suck
[02:31] <mjg59> schweeb: .23 should do soon
[02:31] <schweeb> k
[02:32] <mjg59> Oh FFS
[02:32] <schweeb> sorry about your suckage, hope that improves soon :p
[02:32] <jdub> seb128: wow, i just rebuilt evince, and it very reliably crashes in libdbus-glib on startup :)
[02:32] <mjg59> The headers for the XTest extension *don't depend on the library*
[02:32] <carstenh> .23 of which package?
[02:32] <schweeb> carstenh: acpi-support
[02:33] <carstenh> ok, thanks. i have similar problems.
[02:33] <mjg59> Right. 0.24, then.
[02:33] <schweeb> rofl
[02:33] <seb128> jdub: weird, the current package is supposed to fix this bug. From where do you build?
[02:33] <mjg59> libxtst-dev *doesn't actually contain any headers*
[02:33] <jdub> seb128: building on my machine, 0.3.4-0ubuntu3
[02:33] <jdub> seb128: do i not have latest source?
[02:33] <seb128> jdub: could be an autogenerated .h file shipped with the tarball, current version has this issue but the debian/rules do a rm of it
[02:34] <jdub> ah, that's in this version
[02:34] <jdub> bong :)
[02:34] <seb128> jdub: that's the current version ... 
[02:34] <seb128> grumpf
[02:34] <seb128> I'll upload poppler now and then rebuild evince
[02:34] <seb128> s/upload/update/
[02:34] <jdub> hold on, probably a problem on my end
[02:35] <jdub> yeah, file was there due to configuration i did previously
[02:35] <seb128> why did you do to my nice package? :)
[02:35] <jdub> ha ha
[02:35] <seb128> that was the evil .h stricking back? :)
[02:35] <jdub> yeah
[02:35] <jdub> vicious
[02:36] <seb128> right
[03:10] <elmo> okay, who recommended beep?
[03:10] <whiprush> i think that was me
[03:10] <elmo> dude, this thing is teh suck
[03:10] <crimsun> beep-media-player?
[03:10] <elmo> it's got some insanely small window size and doesn't even support doubling
[03:11] <whiprush> well, it /is/ based on xmms
[03:11] <elmo> so on my 1600x1200 screen it's just not usable
[03:11] <elmo> xmms has 'double size' mode to make it usable on post-1985 computers
[03:11] <|QuaD-> daniels is in charge of xorg right?
[03:11] <mjg59> |QuaD-: Yeah
[03:11] <mjg59> But it's likely that he's asleep right now
[03:11] <|QuaD-> yeah... just checking
[03:11] <elmo> and fricking muine doesn't play any music
[03:11] <elmo> what's up with THAT?
[03:12] <|QuaD-> mjg59: does anyone else do xorg with daniels?
[03:12] <bob2> cplay, duh
[03:13] <crimsun> elmo: ctrl+d doesn't work?
[03:13] <elmo> crimsun: nope
[03:13] <crimsun> what the...
[03:13] <bur[n] er_> elmo: quod libet ?
[03:14] <daniels> of course, you could always try *asking* daniels if he's awake, rather than just assuming he is, before you go searching for others ...
[03:14] <elmo> bur[n] er_: say what now?
[03:14] <mjg59> daniels: Dude, you sleep less than me
[03:14] <mjg59> It's worrying
[03:14] <bur[n] er_> elmo: apt-cache show quod-libet
[03:14] <|QuaD-> daniels: haha... :) i am sorry
[03:14] <mjg59> Also, bloody hibernation
[03:14] <bob2> he subsitutes more sleep for whiskey than you
[03:14] <mjg59> For some reason it's unhappy with usplash
[03:14] <bur[n] er_> elmo: apt-cache show quodlibet
[03:14] <|QuaD-> daniels: are there any major problems with X currently that would make it crash when logging in wiht gdm?
[03:15] <mjg59> bur[n] er_: You've already said that
[03:15] <|QuaD-> i am using the nv drivers
[03:15] <bur[n] er_> mjg59: i mistyped ;)
[03:15] <mjg59> |QuaD-: When you say the nv drivers, you mean "nv" and not "nvidia", right?
[03:15] <|QuaD-> mjg59: yeah
[03:16] <mjg59> |QuaD-: In that case, it's probably best to file a bug
[03:17] <|QuaD-> mjg59: hmm, alrighty, i think its in my config file, but i wanted to know if there are any known bugs before i continue picking at my xorg.config
[03:22] <|QuaD-> should glx or glcore be enabled with nv drivers?
[03:22] <HrdwrBoB> no
[03:23] <|QuaD-> what about dri?
[03:23] <daniels> bob2: no, I don't drink whiskey at all
[03:24] <bob2> I meant 42 below
[03:24] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: so just drunk on love?
[03:24] <daniels> |QuaD-: i guess file a bug, yeah.  glx/glcore/dri won't make any difference, since nv doesn't use them.
[03:24] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: no, vodka, mainly.
[03:24] <|QuaD-> daniels: alright, if it doesn't work tonight, i will file a bug
[03:25] <|QuaD-> other than busid, driver, and identifier, is anything needed in device?
[03:25] <daniels> no
[03:27] <bob2> don't forget to put the busid in xorg.conf
[03:27] <bob2> it makes the driver work faster
[03:27] <|QuaD-> bob2: in the device section i have it
[03:27] <Keybuk> seb128: does evo use gnome-gpg?
[03:29] <seb128> no that I know of
[03:29] <seb128> why?
[03:30] <jdub> Keybuk: i thought you could configure the gpg command?
[03:31] <Keybuk> oh, just wondering
[03:31] <elmo> 36251592 i386
[03:31] <elmo> 1888596 amd64
[03:31] <elmo>  563622 powerpc
[03:31] <elmo> ^-- other half of archive.u.c
[03:31] <elmo> i.e very similar
[03:33] <|QuaD-> lets see if my config is working :)
[03:36] <whiprush> > I will be in MI on Thursday (25Aug) thru Friday.  I am going to Brief
[03:36] <whiprush> > the Australian Army guys on their tank buy.
[03:38] <whiprush> >  bad paste, sorry
[03:38] <bob2> I hope you're not leaking classifed info
[03:38] <whiprush> heh, nah ...
[03:38] <HrdwrBoB> everyone knows we're buying M1s
[03:38] <bob2> btew
[03:38] <bob2> fridge me up
[03:39] <whiprush> bob2: ask Mr. Dub.
[03:39] <|QuaD-> daniels: you still awake?
[03:39] <bob2> there's a band here called Dubba Rukki
[03:39] <bob2> jdub should hook up with them
[03:40] <|QuaD-> Symbol __glXgetActiveScreen from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdri.a is unresolved!
[03:40] <whiprush> dude, so check this out. 10 days before release, we should do a "ten reasons to use Ubuntu" list.
[03:40] <whiprush> 10 x 10.
[03:40] <whiprush> 10 reasons every day
[03:40] <|QuaD-> that cmoes out in in my xorg.0.log file
[03:40] <bob2> is archive.ubuntu.com missing packages or something?
[03:41] <jdub> whiprush: rock. write up some lists. :)
[03:41] <whiprush> I'm on it.
[03:41] <Keybuk> ouch, trying to spool dvd over USB 1.x is painful
[03:43] <whiprush> jdub: hey is the official firefox icon in colony3 a mistake? or is that all worked out?
[03:45] <|QuaD-> Skipping "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libfb.a:fbmmx.o":  No symbols found <-- is another error in my xorg.0.log
[03:45] <jdub> whiprush: the trademark icon was incorrectly (and violationarily!!11) shipped in gnome-icon-theme ;-)
[03:46] <whiprush> :-/
[03:46] <ajmitch> jdub: oh that's a shame, I hoped it was there to stay
[03:46] <whiprush> for a second there it seemed like everyone was on the same side.
[03:46] <whiprush> but that's just crazy talk
[03:46] <jdub> well, we may just get it sorted for breezy
[03:46] <jdub> properly
[03:46] <jdub> we'll see :)
[03:46] <jdub> luckily it will be a tiny change in debian/rules if we are allowed to :)
[03:53] <daniels> |QuaD-: the first error means that you never bothered uninstalling nvidia-glx, but it shouldn't cause problems
[03:53] <daniels> |QuaD-: the second warning is utterly harmless
[03:58] <|QuaD-> daniels: ok, i filed a bug
[03:58] <|QuaD-> my first bug ever filed 
[03:58] <|QuaD-> i hope i did it right
[03:59] <|QuaD-> gtg for now
[04:00] <|QuaD-> ttyl
[04:29] <shaya> anyone seen mdz in a bit?
[04:29] <mdz> I have
[04:30] <shaya> :)
[04:31] <fabbione> morning guys
[04:44] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[05:13] <jsgotangco> hi all
[05:14] <ajmitch> hi jsgotangco 
[05:14] <lifeless> ./win 18
[05:16] <fab_live> mdz: LIVE looks very very good :)
[05:17] <fab_live> one problem only, given 2 nics in the box, it did attempt to init the wrong one...
[05:17] <fab_live> other than that.. 100% success :)
[05:19] <mdz> fabbione: which one is the wrong one?
[05:19] <mdz> fabbione: it should try one, and if it works, use it, otherwise try the next
[05:20] <fabbione> mdz: it did try to init eth1 and failed (no dhcp on that vlan)
[05:20] <fabbione> and eth0 was unconfigured
[05:20] <mdz> interesting
[05:20] <fabbione> it didn't attempt to init it at all
[05:20] <mdz>  /var/log/installer/syslog would be interesting
[05:21] <fabbione> meh ok..
[05:21] <fabbione> wait
[05:21] <fabbione> i was rebooting already to install ltsp
[05:21] <fabbione> but X res and all other stuff were perfect
[05:24] <`anthony> So is there an easy way to downgrade my kernel to the version before last week's security update? It's completely screwed up unsuspend on this machine.
[05:24] <`anthony> (logging a bug about it now)
[05:29] <fabbione> mdz: do you mean /var/log/casper/syslog.gz ???
[05:29] <fabbione> because there is no such installer/syslog...
[05:29] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[05:29] <mdz> fabbione: that is a saved copy of /var/log/installer/syslog from d-i
[05:29] <elmo> `anthony: the hoary kernel will still be available in the pool
[05:29] <elmo> as opposed to the version in hoary-security
[05:29] <fabbione> mdz: ok..
[05:30] <elmo> it will of course be at the very least local-rootable tho
[05:30] <`anthony> elmo: Hm. So if I comment out the hoary-security from apt, and re-run apt-get update, it will offer the older one?
[05:30] <`anthony> elmo: I can handle local-rootable over "have to reboot twice a day"
[05:31] <elmo> apt won't offer to downgrade stuff without mucking around with pinning
[05:31] <elmo> you might be best off just downloading the relevant deb by hand and installing it with dpkg
[05:31] <elmo> (icky i know)
[05:31] <fabbione> mdz: Aug 25 03:23:28 netcfg[12158] : INFO: eth0 is disconnected. (MII)  
[05:31] <fabbione> mdz: we can't rely on MII info 
[05:31] <fabbione> for 2 reasons:
[05:32] <fabbione> a) not all cards are MII 100% compatible
[05:32] <mdz> fabbione: dude, that has been the same since Warty
[05:32] <elmo> `anthony: it seems very strange that a  hoary-security kernel update would make your box unstable
[05:32] <fabbione> b) in my specific case the switch takes longer to negotiate
[05:32] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't have this switch in warty
[05:32] <fabbione> mdz: this is a GigaEth connected to a 10/100MB switch
[05:33] <fabbione> it just takes longer to negotiate
[05:35] <mdz> my laptop is gige and connected to a 10/100 switch, and the MII test works fine
[05:36] <fabbione> mdz: is your switch a cisco 2924 ? and do you have a inter gigabit?
[05:36] <mdz> no
[05:36] <fabbione> intel even
[05:36] <mdz> and yes
[05:37] <mdz> it is an intel gige, but the switch is not a cisco
[05:37] <fabbione> mdz: mii works here too after they negotiate
[05:37] <mdz> that is a very expensive switch to use at home ;-)
[05:37] <`anthony> elmo: bug 14124 has the details.
[05:37] <fabbione> mdz: it depends .. i got a bunch for free...
[05:37] <fabbione> mdz: some with fibers :)
[05:37] <mdz> I would not mind a free cat 2924 if you have extra :-)
[05:38] <mdz> I am out of ports on my netgear
[05:38] <mdz> how many is "a bunch"?
[05:38] <fabbione> mdz: i have one or two 2916 with 16 Fast + 2 expansions slots (and i have a few expansion with 2x100 FC each)
[05:39] <fabbione> mdz: + two or 3 c19xx but they are only 24 Eth + 2 Fast
[05:40] <fabbione> mdz: anyway how can i easily add a MII larger timeout?
[05:40] <fabbione> mdz: like testing the mii for a few secs before giving up?
[05:43] <carstenh> `anthony: you could use "apt-get install package=version" when you want to skip pinning
[05:43] <elmo> oh, yeah good point
[05:43] <`anthony> elmo: the version in pool appears to be the same as the version from the kernel upgrade
[05:43] <carstenh> hmm, and set it to hold afterwards... 
[05:44] <elmo> linux-image-2.6.10-5-686 |  2.6.10-34 |         hoary | i386
[05:44] <elmo> linux-image-2.6.10-5-686 | 2.6.10-34.4 | hoary-security | i386
[05:44] <elmo> `anthony: ^--
[05:45] <mdz> fabbione: there is no timeout; I think it just checks once
[05:45] <mdz> fabbione: you could have it check in a loop for 3 seconds or something
[05:45] <fabbione> mdz: yeah the latter is what i meant..
[05:47] <`anthony> elmo: ah. my reeding skillz gud. 
[06:07] <Burgundavia> mdz, with UbuntuExpress not making, are the windows programs still going to be ont he livecd?
[06:09] <mdz> Burgundavia: of course; we never planned to remove them
[06:09] <mdz> even if ubuntuexpress had been ready
[06:09] <Burgundavia> mdz, ok, just checking for the Quick Tour
[06:10] <mdz> Burgundavia: is that published somewhere yet?
[06:10] <Burgundavia> QuickTourDraft for a rough online and the writing
[06:10] <Burgundavia> going into SVN sometime later this week
[06:16] <elmo> `anthony: better?
[06:20] <`anthony> dunno. going to try suspending now.
[06:21] <`anthony> elmo: huzzah. downgrading to -34 makes it work again.
[06:22] <elmo> well huzzah for you, sucks for us ;-P
[06:25] <`anthony> Yes, yes it does. If someone wants to try building kernels to fix the problem, let me know and I'll try them out.
[06:25] <Burgundavia> mdz, I though LP integration was supposed to have bug filing link as well?
[06:25] <Burgundavia> mdz, and how mature in Get Help going to be? should it be promoted?
[06:29] <mdz> Burgundavia: "get help" is going to include a path to report a bug if appropriate
[06:29] <mdz> probably through a support system first
[06:30] <Burgundavia> ala bug-buddy-style?
[06:30] <Burgundavia> is LP integation in general mature enough to be promoted?
[06:31] <mdz> Burgundavia: as much as Breezy is, yes ;-)
[06:31] <mdz> the launchpad pages don't do much yet, but they will by the time we release 5.10
[06:31] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:31] <Burgundavia> I was talking about for the release
[06:31] <mdz> ko
[06:31] <mdz> ok
[06:32] <Burgundavia> the Quicktour is designed so that with a few modification, you guys can take it to a show and use it there
[06:32] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:33] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, hard
[06:33] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:33] <jsgotangco> it would be a PITA to make the tables alone
[06:33] <jsgotangco> that's why i was asking you before
[06:39] <jtan325> is there a way to dpkg-buildpackage without the -k option, i.e. it looks up your id in a file or env. variable?
[07:03] <Keybuk> mdz: definitely looks like there's a "udev is dropping shit on the floor" problem, doesn't there
[07:09] <Burgundavia> mdz, was evince removed from the menus intentionally?
[07:11] <\sh> morning
[07:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: why bother doing it in docbook at all?
[07:13] <Burgundavia> seb128, UI freeze is tomorrow. https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12145 is simple rename of the serpentine menu item to be more useful. Can it pushed in?
[07:13] <Burgundavia> jdub, I am not going to
[07:13] <jdub> yay
[07:13] <Burgundavia> jdub, html and then from html to pdf
[07:13] <Burgundavia> if needed
[07:14] <jsgotangco> jdub, such a bother for an article
[07:14] <Burgundavia> going to get my web-savvy brother to help me with kickass css
[07:15] <Burgundavia> jdub, I was also thinking we could feed each piece into the fridge
[07:15] <Burgundavia> jdub, one section/day
[07:15] <mdz> Burgundavia: I don't know; that'd be a seb128 question
[07:15] <Burgundavia> mdz, ok
[07:15] <mjg59> mdz: Argh, the bugs!
[07:15] <mdz> mjg59: you're telling me
[07:15] <jdub> Burgundavia: chat to whiprush about his ten day lead up idea
[07:15] <Burgundavia> jdub, can do
[07:16] <jdub> Burgundavia: it'll fit in very nicely with that
[07:16] <mdz> we were sort of asking for it by sending out laptops and telling people to file bugs, though
[07:16] <Burgundavia> mdz, indeed
[07:16] <jsgotangco> mjg59 said anything that doesn't work
[07:16] <ajmitch> mdz: the laptops are appreciated though (when they arrive)
[07:17] <Burgundavia> jdub, have you checked out the lastest stuff on QuickTourDraft?
[07:17] <jsgotangco> (its pretty rad now)
[07:17] <Burgundavia> jdub, read the rough work section at the very bottom
[07:18] <mjg59> mdz: Well, yes
[07:19] <mjg59> mdz: It's gradually getting under control, though I'm going to have to chase down some suspend issues
[07:19] <jdub> Burgundavia: no, but i will - thanks
[07:20] <Burgundavia> whiprush, ping
[07:21] <jblack> Burgandavia: When you're done with whiprush, mind if we have a chat? 
[07:21] <Burgundavia> jbailey, available now
[07:21] <jblack> cool.
[07:22] <jdub> Burgundavia: hmm, need to refocus on benefits, not features :)
[07:22] <jblack> By any chance, are you familiar with the work that I do? 
[07:22] <jdub> Burgundavia: give me a few minutes, will chat on -doc
[07:22] <ajmitch> jblack: I thought you were mark, not jeff? :)
[07:22] <Burgundavia> jblack, yes, to a certain extent
[07:22] <jblack> ajmitch: Long story. :) 
[07:23] <jblack> burgundavia: COol. Yeah. I work on bazar interests, which is a tool ubuntu works on and is about to push very hard. 
[07:23] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:23] <jblack> I heard a nasty rumor, though, that the ubuntu docs are in subversion? 
[07:23] <Burgundavia> yes they are
[07:23] <jsgotangco> jblack, true
[07:23] <Burgundavia> shall we move to -doc?
[07:24] <jblack> Sure. :) 
[07:27] <mdz> mjg59: if you'd like me to sort/tag these differently, let me know
[07:27] <\sh> good morning jblack :)
[07:27] <Burgundavia> mjg59, mdz do we want to sort laptop and laptop-trivial
[07:27] <Burgundavia> because some things really are
[07:28] <Burgundavia> mdz, mjg59 never mind, it is late and I am an idiot
[07:29] <\sh> whats up with debian bts
[07:30] <\sh> grrrr...libdv ftbfs on amd64
[07:30] <fabbione> mdz: the last LTSPHowTo is still https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo? i recall something with thinclient in the name...
[07:31] <mdz> fabbione: ThinClientHowto, oddly enough ;-)
[07:31] <fabbione> ah here is.. the "C" in client.. that's it
[07:31] <mdz> fabbione: please add a link from LTSPHowTo to ThinClientHowto, while you're there
[07:31] <mdz> similar to the ThinClientHowto->LTSPHowTo link
[07:34] <Keybuk> hmm, I have a nasty hunch about this udev problem
[07:35] <mdz> down to 31 messages in ubuntu-bugs
[07:35] <mdz> that is a new record since hoary I think
[07:35] <fabbione> mdz: yup
[07:35] <mdz> and a high note on which to go to bed
[07:35] <mdz> tomorrow is carpet day
[07:35] <mdz> night all
[07:35] <Keybuk> nite dude
[07:35] <Mithrandir> carpet day?
[07:35] <mdz> the day when carpet is installed in my office and I can move back into it
[07:36] <Mithrandir> ah, ok.
[07:36] <fabbione> mdz: eheh congratulation :)
[07:36] <fabbione> mdz: night.. (btw there is already a link to LTSPHowTo from ThinClient)
[07:36] <\sh> Mithrandir: please install libpopt-dev on ravel, breezy chroot :) thx :)
[07:36] <fabbione> the other is done
[07:37] <Mithrandir> \sh: done
[07:37] <\sh> Mithrandir: u rock :)
[07:41] <robitaille> humm...when is the doc team meeting?  25th or 26th?  wiki + agenda has 26th.  topic in #u-meeting has 25th
[07:42] <robitaille> [sorry wrong channel] 
[07:45] <\sh> Mithrandir: after breakfast :) please install as well automake-1.9 into ravels breezy chroot :) thx :)
[07:52] <Mithrandir> done (automake1.9)
[07:54] <\sh> thx :)
[08:04] <\sh> hmmmm..
[08:05] <\sh> /usr/bin/ld: .libs/vlc_x86_64.o: relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against `dv_vlc_class_index_mask' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[08:06] <\sh> and at least this object file isn't compiled with -fPIC..
[08:06] <\sh> and I don't know where to enable this 
[08:06] <\sh> in Makefile.am
[08:08] <\sh> mdz: is it ok with you to break UVF if a new upstream version fixes FTBFS (for main) (source package libdv)
[08:10] <Burgundavia> mjg59, your latest acpi update broken stuff, like rebooting
[08:10] <fabbione> jamesh: you will need to backport only the fix required
[08:10] <fabbione> ^ \sh
[08:12] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Yeah, yeah
[08:12] <mjg59> Burgundavia: More usefully - yeah, I think I know where the problem is
[08:12] <mjg59> I'll dig into it now
[08:12] <mjg59> (It's fixed rather more than it's broken, so)
[08:12] <Burgundavia> mjg59, cheers!
[08:13] <mjg59> Basically, there's a stack of device_suspend calls that shouldn't be there
[08:15] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:15] <mjg59> Hmm. Maybe not.
[08:15] <mjg59> Oh argh goddamnit
[08:15] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Ok. Do you have a machine that no longer reboots?
[08:16] <Burgundavia> mjg59, indeed
[08:17] <Burgundavia> or not, hmm
[08:17] <mjg59> Mm?
[08:18] <Burgundavia> it just rebooted correctly
[08:18] <mjg59> Ah
[08:18] <Burgundavia> let me a test a few more times
[08:18] <mjg59> Latest kernel?
[08:18] <Burgundavia> absolutely latest as of 4 hours ago and you haven't updated anything since then
[08:18] <mjg59> Indeed
[08:19] <mjg59> 108 bugs found.
[08:20] <\sh> fabbione: this will be a hard backport..
[08:20] <\sh> fabbione: asm stuff 
[08:20] <jsgotangco> you have a docking station? "$??$^"$^~~
[08:21] <Burgundavia> the only that works through it is power currently
[08:21] <Burgundavia> not even usb works
[08:21] <Burgundavia> mjg59, ok, file that bug under Could Not Replicate
[08:22] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Joy
[08:22] <mjg59> The docking station on mine works fine...
[08:22] <Burgundavia> testing some shutdowns now
[08:23] <\sh> and grrr seb128
[08:23] <\sh> any popup in gnome let my desktop switchjump to another desktop
[08:25] <\sh> but 
[08:25] <Burgundavia> mjg59, where do shutdown messages about pcmcia get logged?
[08:26] <\sh> fabbione: regarding libdv...setting gcc-3.4 as build-dep on amd64 and everything is fine...is it ok as well for the apps depending on this to use this lib compiled against gcc-3.4?
[08:26] <fabbione> \sh why not backporting only the fix?
[08:27] <fabbione> hard != impossible
[08:28] <\sh> fabbione: because it's more then a fix...and I can't test it actually on amd64...so for me it better to have a working "old lib" but tested then to backport asm crack
[08:28] <fabbione> \sh make your choise.. is it a c++ lib? or only C? in the latter switching compiler is an okish compromise
[08:28] <fabbione> if it's a c++ lib, no.. you need to backport the fix
[08:29] <\sh> fabbione: libdv is plain c
[08:29] <\sh> + asm of course
[08:30] <\sh> and I was the stupid idiot who touched it, so I have to fix it somehow
[08:31] <pitti> G'morning!
[08:31] <\sh> moins pitti :)
[08:31] <Burgundavia> pitti, I am truly sorry you have to support mediawiki. It is too bad that moin really sucks as a userinteface and mediawiki doesn;t
[08:32] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Uhm. /var/log/daemon.log, IIRC
[08:32] <mjg59> But I'm not sure of that
[08:35] <Burgundavia> mjg59, that is the correct log
[08:36] <\sh> I'll go for gcc-3.4 and check if I have the time to backport 0.104 asm crack
[08:42] <fabbione_ltsp> not bad :)
[08:43] <pitti> Burgundavia: :+/
[08:43] <pitti> Hi fabbione_ltsp 
[08:45] <fabbione_ltsp> hey pitti
[08:48] <fabbione> jammcq: ping?
[09:00] <siretart> morning
[09:00] <\sh> hey siretart 
[09:00] <\sh> mvo: moins
[09:00] <siretart> woah, we have j2re1.4 now in universe?!
[09:00] <siretart> wasn't the license just crack?
[09:01] <siretart> huhu mvo
[09:03] <mvo> good morning siretart 
[09:03] <infinity> The license is crack, that's why it's in multiverse.
[09:03] <\sh> mvo: come on dude..6:00 localtime == office time ,-) I already did my work for today ,-)
[09:03] <siretart> I thought it is crack as in 'unredistributable'
[09:04] <phlaegel> siretart: it's blackdown java, not sun
[09:04] <infinity> I'd have to re-read it, but I'm pretty sure it's only unredistributable without permission.  And we may well have gotten said permission.
[09:05] <siretart> in that case, can we also put libdvdcss in multiverse?
[09:05] <infinity> And we very much don't guarantee that multiverse or restricted are redistributable by anyone other than Ubuntu/Canonical.
[09:05] <mvo> \sh: my local time starts at 9 ;)
[09:05] <\sh> mvo: u should work for your provider *eg*
[09:05] <siretart> infinity: thats great news for our users!
[09:06] <mjg59> Bwahahahahaha
[09:07] <\sh> siretart: I don't want to have libdvdcss...it would be much nicer to have it as a "legalized piece of software for linux dvd players"
[09:08] <infinity> Indeed, the problem with CSS isn't the distributability of the code (copyright-wise), it's that people don't really want to get sued for doing so.
[09:08] <infinity> (Or criminally prosecuted, in some jurisdictions)
[09:09] <daniels> mjg59: (bastard)
[09:09] <\sh> yes...the illegal status of dvdcss is the problem
[09:09] <daniels> \sh: there is no 'legalized piece of software for linux dvd players', nor is there like ly to be until dvda does a complete backflip
[09:10] <\sh> daniels: that's what I meant...
[09:10] <Burgundavia> daniels, was there a discussion somewhere about scrolldown the side of touchpads?
[09:10] <infinity> Or until we pay gods of money to the right people for every CD we press, and forbid redistribution of those compnents without licensing fees.
[09:10] <pitti> launchpad-integration 0.0patch26+mvo7-0ubuntu3  - yay version numbers 
[09:10] <infinity> YAY.
[09:10] <infinity> s/gods/gobs/
[09:11] <daniels> Burgundavia: not that I can remember
[09:11] <jdub> daniels: there absolutely are legal dvd programs for linux
[09:11] <Burgundavia> daniels, shall I raise it on the -devel list? (I happen to think that it is a sane default)
[09:11] <jdub> daniels: there are just no FOSS ones
[09:13] <\sh> infinity: what are the costs? I mean, a special ubuntu dvd player with legal decss code would be a "damn, those people did it again" PR gag...1 EUR/USD/currency fee to get the license payment back..
[09:14] <infinity> \sh : Paying would set a precedent that no one wants.  It tells people that we think it's A-OK to strangle software freedom with patent licenses and crackpot anti-cirucumvention legislation in the name of profit.
[09:14] <mjg59> Nnnngh.
[09:14] <infinity> Also, this becomes wildly off-topic, methinks.
[09:15] <\sh> infinity: yes...working on libqt3c102-mt unmet deps
[09:16] <jdub> \sh: see section 7 of the GPL (sure, we could use software with another license, but keep it in mind)
[09:17] <\sh> jdub: I wasn't thinking about the license right now..I was thinking: provide the linux users a "legally usable dvd player software for linux including decss" (completly different from ubuntu distribution)
[09:17] <\sh> jdub: but this is really OT :) forget everything...I need coffee
[09:17] <jdub> \sh: fluendo is working on proprietary dvd plugins for gstreamer
[09:17] <jdub> they are going to support ubuntu
[09:18] <\sh> jdub: include decryption?
[09:18] <jdub> of course
[09:19] <jdub> that's the whole point :)
[09:21] <mjg59> *Half* of my open and non-needinfo bugs have been opened in the past week
[09:21] <Burgundavia> they are only going to get worse
[09:22] <mjg59> Yes
[09:22] <mjg59> Yes, they are
[09:31] <infinity> \sh : Argh, dude, don't upload new sources to force a retry of failed builds, just ask me to retry them.
[09:31] <daniels> jdub: foss> that was kind of implied
[09:32] <daniels> Burgundavia: i honestly don't think it's worth it -- we went through it before, and it's one of those things where you just have to pick some arbitrary default and accept that half of the people will love it and half of the people will think it's shit
[09:32] <Burgundavia> daniels, indeed
[09:33] <jsgotangco> daniels, but some models do have their touchpads with scroll indicators
[09:33] <daniels> jsgotangco: we have no way to detect that
[09:33] <jsgotangco> ahh
[09:34] <daniels> jsgotangco: so we're going to have to pick one default that's sensible for both ones with a little ridge separationg the touchpad and the scroll area, and without
[09:34] <jsgotangco> ok i won't file a bug then :)
[09:35] <pef> hi
[09:38] <mjg59> Oh man
[09:38] <mjg59> I should really stop dealing with Bugzilla when I'm drunk
[09:39] <mjg59> I write entirely sensible things that I have no recollection of writing
[09:42] <Treenaks> mjg59: better than writing gibberish
[09:43] <mjg59> 84 bugs dealt with
[09:45] <fabbione> mjg59: i just reassinged one from acpi to linux with you in CC
[09:45] <pitti> elmo: please sync postgresql-7.4 postgresql-8.0 postgresql-common from unstable; I'd also like to sync plr; it is a new upstream version, but universe, and the current plr package does not work at all with the new postgresql structure
[09:47] <Mithrandir> daniels: is current breezy known not to autodetect modes (i386) correctly?  I got a question about it with today's daily.
[09:47] <siretart> err, does anyone know where libxp6 did go?
[09:48] <daniels> Mithrandir: *shrug*, usual disclaimer about xorg.conf, xorg.0.log, etc, applies
[09:48] <daniels> siretart: it went to a better place.  we don't support xprint now.
[09:49] <siretart> daniels: well, is there any possibility to get it backs for 'legacy' apps like java plugin?
[09:49] <Mithrandir> daniels: I'm still in the middle of the install and this used to work on live, at least.  It only asked about modes, not about driver and stuff, so I guess ddcprobe had a bad day.
[09:49] <daniels> Mithrandir: quite possibly
[09:49] <siretart> daniels: javaplugin from blackdown makes firefox crashing instantly because of no libxp.so.6 available
[09:49] <daniels> siretart: if so, it'll have to be an motu thing
[09:50] <siretart> daniels: where are the sources?
[09:50] <siretart> universe is ok
[09:50] <Mithrandir> we kinda need the hooks support in dpkg, this install has been stalling for ten minutes regenerating font caches.
[09:50] <mjg59> Bwahahahaha.
[09:50] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I guess you missed the discussion about that at debconf?
[09:50] <daniels> siretart: http://xorg.freedesktop.org, look at the modular developers' guide, you want proto/Print and lib/Xp
[09:51] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: indeed I missed it.  Anything useful came out of it?
[09:51] <mvo> daniels: do you happen to know if the r300_demo application (from r300.sf.net) should run on a current breezy kernel/Xorg?
[09:51] <siretart> daniels: I assume there are no debian packages available yet and I have to look at them myself, right?
[09:51] <mjg59> Ok, down to 58 bugs I'm supposed to be doing something about
[09:51] <Keybuk> a couple of different ways of doing that kind of thing were discussed
[09:51] <Keybuk> and I rather liked the one iwj/wiggy came up with in a taxi but never wrote down
[09:52] <Keybuk> packages can ship a hook script (e.g. /var/lib/dpkg/info/fontconfig.hook) and specify when that hook gets run (files going into /usr/share/fonts)
[09:53] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:53] <mvo> good morning seb128 
[09:53] <seb128> hey pitti mvo
[09:54] <jdub> 5000+ people on ubuntu-announce these days :-)
[09:55] <daniels> mvo: no, and it won't
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: hm? you just got up, didn't you?
[09:55] <mvo> daniels: is it a matter of updateing my dri radeon driver? 
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: time for another funny day full of bug reports^W^Wfunny development
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: yeah, but I went to bed at 5am, damn .la files
[09:56] <jdub> bum, this machine has suse on it
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jdub, where are you>
[09:56] <jdub> sitting on my couch
[09:56] <daniels> mvo: you'd need to update the drm in the kernel and the ddx in xorg.  the ddx stuff won't happen because xorg is now frozen.  no r300 for breezy, sorry.
[09:56] <Burgundavia> daniels, shucks
[09:57] <jdub> booting a fairly loud openpower 710 p series machine
[09:57] <jdub> which is going to have an ubuntu enema very soon
[09:57] <mjg59> daniels: Got a report of an identical X300 failure on an x86 HP
[09:57] <seb128> pitti: after uploading cairo 1.0 at midnight I notice than the Debian maintainer turn the glitz backend of because it's experimental and upstream recommend it for stability reason ... the stuff is that ~30 .la file mention glitz.la and I wanted to rebuild pango/gtk and fix the gnome standard libs before going to bed ... oh joy
[09:57] <mvo> daniels: ok, thanks. the stupid ati binary driver hangs for me when I try to use it and I was kind of hoping for free 3d :) breezy+1 then
[09:58] <daniels> mjg59: sounds about right.  i think I know how to ward off the problem, being to idle the engine before we set up for solidfillrect calls.  nasty as hell though.
[09:58] <pitti> seb128: sounds like fun
[09:58] <mjg59> mvo: Of course, with the modular tree it's easy enough for someone to provide external packages
[09:58] <daniels> mjg59: (and slow, but beats hung)
[09:58] <seb128> pitti: yeah, now I really hate .la files :)
[09:58] <daniels> mvo: indeed.  sorry.
[09:58] <mjg59> daniels: Well, turning off Screen2Screen is *slow*
[09:58] <daniels> mjg59: yes, but that's breezy+1
[09:58] <pitti> seb128: they are for libtool, right? what do they do exactly?
[09:59] <mjg59> daniels: Mm? We're not modular for Breezy?
[09:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: I think they're there to annoy seb128, mostly.
[09:59] <daniels> mjg59: right.  so idling the engine is cheaper than disabling it altogether, but not ideal.
[09:59] <daniels> mjg59: no.
[09:59] <mjg59> daniels: When in the past 12 hours did that change?
[09:59] <pirroH> strange problem with breezy here, suddenly fs has become read only (simple ext3)
[09:59] <daniels> mjg59: shortly before I went to bed last night
[09:59] <seb128> pitti: dunno what they do exactly out of creating issues, other distro just trash them 
[10:00] <mjg59> daniels: Right. Do we get the BIOS crack shit for i855?
[10:00] <pitti> seb128: maybe we should change cdbs to not ship la files then?
[10:00] <Mithrandir> pitti: eh, .la files are spawns of libtool, not cdbs
[10:00] <seb128> or a dh_something :)
[10:00] <daniels> mjg59: don't know, I've been told that xorg is now in polar freeze.  so I guess not, but I'll try like hell.
[10:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: libtool is not used to make packages :p
[10:01] <mjg59> daniels: Ok. Thanks.
[10:01] <seb128> pitti: Debian policy is to ship them, but yeah
[10:01] <infinity> policy says nothing about .la files.
[10:01] <infinity> Unless you meant "common Debian practice".
[10:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: I know, but cdbs would be a pretty convenient place to kill them off for a large number of packages
[10:02] <infinity> And I say the best way to make that practice uncommon is to just stop shippin ghtme.
[10:03] <daniels> dh_dielibtooldie
[10:03] <daniels> i've stopped shipping them for everything in x
[10:12] <siretart> daniels: Xp was no problem in finding, but I fail to find proto/Print. Where is it? is it really necessary? a first build seemed to go fine
[10:16] <Mithrandir> uhm, xresprobe wasn't installed.  that might be the reason
[10:16] <lathiat> yes i had that problem
[10:16] <lathiat> because its not in the seed
[10:16] <lathiat> ^ maybe
[10:16] <lathiat> pitti: heh
[10:17] <mvo> hehe
[10:17] <Mithrandir> lathiat: yeah, it should probably be seeded
[10:17] <lathiat> probably? :)
[10:18] <Mithrandir> :-P
[10:23] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you know the reason for xresprobe not being seeded?
[10:23] <Mithrandir> that is, not in the desktop seed
[10:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: no idea; nobody added it?
[10:24] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's an xorg-server Depends:
[10:24] <fabbione> no need to seed it
[10:24] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no, it's a recommends
[10:24] <fabbione> it's pulled in automatically
[10:24] <pitti>  xresprobe |   0.4.18-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
[10:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's in main
[10:24] <lathiat> its in the ubuntu-live seed
[10:24] <lathiat> but not desktop
[10:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's ship and live, but not desktop
[10:24] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ah ship will push it to CD automatically... why does it need to be in desktop?
[10:25] <Mithrandir> fabbione: because it's not installed at the moment, which means xserver-xorg's postinst won't have it -> question asked
[10:25] <fabbione> Mithrandir: installed where? i just did a breezy install 
[10:25] <Mithrandir> fabbione: by a default desktop install
[10:26] <fabbione> i did that....
[10:26] <fabbione> but it was via network...
[10:27] <edd> seb128: ping?
[10:27] <seb128> edd: pong
[10:27] <edd> seb128: hey. my breezy font prefs are going mad right now. is this a known problem or shall i file bug with more data? the main issue is that it disrespects my hinting settings
[10:28] <seb128> GTK 2.8.1 is bugged, 2.8.2 should fix it
[10:28] <seb128> what version do you have ?
[10:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: are you sure xresprobe was not installed at all?
[10:28] <edd> seb128: 2.8.1-1
[10:28] <seb128> update
[10:28] <seb128> :)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes.
[10:29] <edd> seb128: thanks. btw, firefox still disrespects the hinting prefs before this was a problem, but i guess that's not your issue...
[10:29] <fabbione> Mithrandir: is xresprobe on the cd?
[10:29] <seb128> edd: nop, I use epiphany ... :)
[10:29] <edd> seb128: yeah, i went back to ephy for this reason (wow, and it's way faster!)
[10:29] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if so it could be base-config that lost the bits to install xresprobe
[10:30] <Mithrandir> fabbione: nope, it's not there.
[10:31] <carlos> pitti, hi, morning
[10:31] <carlos> pitti, around?
[10:31] <pitti> Hey carlos, sure :-)
[10:31] <pitti> with the birds
[10:31] <carlos> pitti, http://mawson.ubuntu.com/~carlos/
[10:32] <Mithrandir> so, why is the package not on the cd even when it's seeded as ship?
[10:32] <pitti> WOW
[10:32] <carlos> pitti, new and fresh language packs, could you test them and tell me the error you find?
[10:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: could be cd overflow
[10:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: during the hoary release, we had a similar problem
[10:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: checking for that already.
[10:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: a few packages flowed to the 2nd cd and broke X
[10:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, I think so; du -sh /media/cdrom gives me 641MB
[10:33] <pitti> carlos: sure, doing that now. Thanks!
[10:33] <carlos> pitti, thank you
[10:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, 650 MB for the whole image is the hard limit
[10:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: can you rather look at the raw iso image?
[10:33] <carlos> I think there are still some errors related with '\n', I'm debugging that already
[10:33] <Mithrandir> -rw-rw-r--   1 tfheen  tfheen  645M 2005-08-24 09:35 breezy-install-i386.iso
[10:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: does anybody notice this or should I nag somebody?  (FSOS)
[10:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: Kamion can check for this, but I don't think the cronjob pushes a notification
[10:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: that size should be fine, though
[10:35] <\sh> seb128: I have some strange issues with switching desktops when popups are popping up 
[10:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: well, Colin is on vacation.
[10:36] <Keybuk> \sh: metacity crashes?
[10:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: mdz is the guy
[10:36] <\sh> Keybuk: no..just switching from actual desktop to another one and back to actual one
[10:36] <Keybuk> oh, I've had a few metacity crashes when doing things like switching desktops
[10:37] <\sh> Keybuk: and only automatically when a popup is showing up
[10:37] <Keybuk> WHAT IS THAT NOISE )!()"$(!$"
[10:37] <Keybuk> I'm going to go on a campaign against any app that makes a beep or sound of any description without a visual clue alongside it
[10:37] <\sh> infinity: *grmpf* sorry...I just had my head somewhere else :( 
[10:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: your network connection jumping up and down?  Similar to the pcmcia insert/eject sound?
[10:38] <Keybuk> it's a very quiet "bidong" kind of noise
[10:39] <HiddenWolf> keybuk, start with ripping the system beeps out of email clients then.
[10:39] <Keybuk> don't have one running
[10:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: could you log in to jabber
[10:40] <\sh> hmm...my jabber roster grew since the day before last
[10:41] <Keybuk> FOUND IT
[10:41] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: thanks!
[10:41] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: np
[10:41] <Keybuk> it's a beep to tell you someone's logged in to jabber
[10:41] <Mithrandir> how annoying.
[10:41] <Mithrandir> use guifications.
[10:41] <Keybuk> gossip has guifications?
[10:41] <Mithrandir> nah, gaim has guifications.
[10:41] <Keybuk> but gaim sucks
[10:42] <Mithrandir> gossip should be able to get them for breezy+1, if grim manages to finish guifications3
[10:42] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, don't all IM clients suck?
[10:42] <Mithrandir> since that'll be a more generic notification framework.
[10:43] <Keybuk> I like gossip, it's almost entirely bling free
[10:43] <Keybuk> it gives you a window with a list of names in, and a window to type in
[10:43] <Keybuk> which is about all I want
[10:43] <lathiat> i like gajim
[10:43] <lathiat> not really used gossip tho
[10:43] <lathiat> but sucks less than gaim
[10:43] <Keybuk> Robot101 and robtaylor__  need to finish their dbus rewrite
[10:44] <lathiat> theyre writing one?
[10:44] <lathiat> heh i was playing writin ga new dbus client library last night
[10:44] <lathiat> thats like, thread safe and not stupid
[10:44] <HiddenWolf> The only reason I stick to gaim is that it connects to just about any protocol. :)
[10:44] <Keybuk> dbus rewrite of gaim
[10:44] <lathiat> ah
[10:45] <fabbione> elmo: something is badly wrong with archive...
[10:45] <fabbione> elmo: hoary seems to be uninstallable via network..
[10:46] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, hoary?
[10:46] <\sh> Keybuk: try out gajim ,-)
[10:47] <jdub> hrm
[10:47] <Mithrandir> fabbione: elmo won't be around for six hours or so
[10:47] <Keybuk> \sh: I saw screenshots, I didn't like
[10:47] <jdub> anyone know how to do the equivalent of stop-a with openfirmware?
[10:47] <\sh> Keybuk: it supports now real TLS handshakes, gpg-agents, and dns svr records 
[10:47] <\sh> and it's python
[10:47] <Keybuk> \sh: but it looks like bling
[10:47] <\sh> wth is bling?
[10:47] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: yes.. hoary.. i got a bunch of 404 and a set of security updates on hold...
[10:47] <Keybuk> bling is bad
[10:47] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i know, but he reads the backlog..
[10:48] <lathiat> bling is good!
[10:48] <\sh> Keybuk: actually...it's just like PSI for KDE ,-)
[10:48] <Keybuk> no, bling is _really_ bad
[10:48] <fabbione> now if only this damn FB didn't kill the scrollback, i could have paste more info
[10:48] <lathiat> no bad bling is bad. :)
[10:48] <Keybuk> bling is always bad
[10:48] <lathiat> never
[10:48] <Keybuk> bling is unnecessary
[10:48] <\sh> translate bling ,-)
[10:48] <seb128> \sh: why do you fork gajim to use debhelper when Debian has the same version using cdbs ?
[10:48] <Keybuk> \sh: did you ever watch the A-Team?
[10:49] <\sh> seb128: asterix didn't have cdbs for 0.7.1...and I was faster with 0.8...but I will merge back with his style..but offer more features then debian...it's all discussed in the background :)
[10:49] <HiddenWolf> \sh, bling: lots of unneeded glitter/glamour -> bells and whistles
[10:49] <HiddenWolf> \sh, IE, over the top.
[10:49] <\sh> Keybuk: I only know mr. t and his gold chains ,-)
[10:50] <\sh> Keybuk: and a lot of "bullets" in a-team
[10:50] <Keybuk> \sh: the exact thing I was looking for -- Mr T is bling
[10:50] <seb128> \sh: hum, k
[10:50] <Keybuk> lots of gold chains, and "ya whuh fool"
[10:50] <Keybuk> desktop bling is a UI with lots of gold chains, and rings and stuff
[10:52] <\sh> seb128: asterix packages gajim for debian ( and he had a sponsor) and he is dev for this project
[10:53] <seb128> \sh: k, and he used cdbs :)
[10:53] <Keybuk> but did he inhale?
[10:54] <\sh> seb128: this is build-dep from 0.7.1: Build-Depends: debmake, python2.4-dev, libgtk2.0-dev, python-gtk2-dev, libgtkspell-dev, gettext, libxss-dev
[10:54] <\sh> i don't see any cdbs in there :)
[10:55] <seb128> \sh: "   * use cdbs" that's 0.8.0
[10:55] <seb128> :p
[10:55] <\sh> seb128: 0.8.0 came too late...my package was already in our archives
[10:55] <seb128> k
[10:56] <fabbione> hmm 
[10:56] <\sh> seb128: i saw it yesterday the first time in debian...and I mailed him directly
[10:56] <fabbione> did we get a hoary-update for openoffice?
[10:56] <fabbione> or a security update?
[10:58] <fabbione> Package: myspell-en-gb
[10:58] <fabbione> Version: 20030813-3ubuntu1
[10:59] <fabbione> there is no such version ....
[10:59] <fabbione> that's from the Packages.gz (hoary/main)
[11:02] <seb128> jdub: can we move Add/Remove Programs out of the application menu?
[11:02] <jdub> seb128: we just moved it there :)
[11:02] <seb128> jdub: it's just ugly with non-short locales ("Add" is short in english by example so you don't notice it, but with fr locales by example the menu twice larger)
[11:02] <fabbione> yeps..
[11:02] <fabbione> the file disappeared
[11:02] <seb128> yeah, and that's ugly ugly
[11:03] <jdub> seb128: not too concerned if you move it to the admin menu
[11:03] <jdub> seb128: i'm not convinced the current incarnation is really ready for mass public exposure
[11:03] <fabbione> elmo: myspell-en-gb_20030813-3ubuntu1_all.deb file disappeared from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/o/openoffice.org-dictionaries/
[11:04] <fabbione> elmo: the Package file reports it correctly, but the file isn't there anymore.
[11:04] <seb128> jdub: good. I'm not convinced too since the package discriptions are not translated ...
[11:04] <seb128> descriptions
[11:04] <jdub> yeah
[11:05] <seb128> you have translated titles and english description which is ... weird ...
[11:05] <seb128> mvo: please move it to admin :)
[11:06] <mvo> seb128: System/Admin then?
[11:06] <seb128> right
[11:06] <seb128> like synaptic
[11:06] <mvo> seb128: I'll just revert my gnome-menus change then
[11:11] <niran> is there any work being done on getting debian package descriptions translated?
[11:12] <sabdfl> niran: ask about that in #launchpad
[11:12] <sabdfl> specifically, ask carlos
[11:12] <niran> sabdfl, ok, thanks
[11:13] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl 
[11:13] <sabdfl> hiya jsgotangco
[11:14] <carlos> niran, https://launchpad.net/products/ddtp-ubuntu/
[11:15] <niran> carlos, oh, that's pretty nifty
[11:15] <jsgotangco> hi ogra 
[11:16] <sabdfl> niran: check the templates on the left of the page
[11:16] <ogra> hello wonderful world of isdn :(
[11:17] <seb128> carlos: the template for main gives " Sorry, a system error occurred"
[11:18] <Treenaks> ogra: you know "ISDN" means "It Still Does Nothing", right?
[11:18] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[11:19] <ogra> Treenaks, at least it works ... even if it eats my salary within one hour :/
[11:20] <\sh> strike...\sh c++ fixing hour
[11:20] <carlos> seb128, I see...
[11:21] <carlos> hmmm
[11:22] <seb128> carlos: morning BTW :)
[11:22] <carlos> seb128, morning
[11:26] <Keybuk> \sh: aptitude purge g++ ... fixed!
[11:26] <jdub> anyone familiar with linux on ibm pseries machines?
[11:26] <\sh> Keybuk: yes ;)
[11:27] <fabbione> jdub: sivang
[11:27] <jdub> ahr
[11:27] <seb128> jdub: did you get this djvulibre sync?
[11:27] <jdub> seb128: i requested it
[11:27] <seb128> k
[11:28] <jdub> fabbione: do you know if kamion has used one before?
[11:28] <fabbione> no idea.. i don't think so
[11:28] <fabbione> if you are talking about LPAR, then no
[11:29] <siretart> daniels: I packaged now libxp6, I took the skeleton if libxrandr
[11:29] <xerox> Hi.
[11:30] <xerox> Is an uninstallable package worth filing a bug report?
[11:30] <siretart> daniels: I am a bit confused about the part proto/Print you told me earlier. nevertheless, the java plugin works with my libxp6 package
[11:30] <siretart> daniels: if you don't object, I'd upload it to universe now
[11:33] <jdub> hmm
[11:33] <jdub> so the machine doesn't seem to be recognising the OS on the CD
[11:33] <hawk_78> Hi!
[11:33] <fabbione> jdub: yes, it's some kind of issue with the bootloader.
[11:33] <fabbione> jdub: but Kamion has no experience on it
[11:34] <hawk_78> Anyone knows where doko is? I need to talk to him.
[11:35] <jdub> fabbione: bum. red hat and suse work on it. gar! ;-)
[11:35] <jdub> and the suse install on here seems terribly b0rk
[11:36] <fabbione> jdub: i think Kamion said that he was going to look at it, but they build the CD in a completely different way
[11:36] <fabbione> i am not sure he managed to look at it before marriage
[11:36] <jdub> ouch
[11:36] <jdub> hmm, well i have access to one now
[11:37] <fabbione> jdub: patches are always welcome :)
[11:37] <jdub> 8)
[11:37] <fabbione> jdub: you should check the differences between the CD's
[11:37] <fabbione> that will be a good point to start from
[11:37] <jdub> i'll have to find some RH or SuSE CDs
[11:37] <fabbione> and see how yaboot is installed/configured
[11:48] <fabbione> mjg59: how can i disable usplash at boot? i don't need to kill it 100%, just disable it for one boot..
[11:49] <fabbione> mjg59: it's a good idea if you can test a hoary perfectly clean install to breezy upgrade.. usplash has been spitting out a lot of errors that i can't even grab because they scroll behind and away as soon as X start...
[11:50] <mjg59> fabbione: New upload should sort most of that
[11:50] <fabbione> mjg59: ok
[11:50] <mjg59> If you remove the splash parameter, it won't run
[11:50] <mjg59> But 0.1-2 will sitll load vga16fb
[11:50] <Mithrandir> mjg59: what's an easy way to trace wtf vbetool is doing?
[11:51] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Hook into the interrupt execution handler and print out what it's doing
[11:51] <mjg59> BBL
[11:51] <Mithrandir> ok, thx
[11:51] <fabbione> mjg59: ok thanks...
[11:52] <fabbione> now... there is an alsa problem upgrading from hoary to breezy that can be seen only once at the first boot into breezy...
[12:01] <Diziet> fab: Shame you can't strace init, really :-).
[12:02] <\sh> g'day JaneW 
[12:03] <JaneW> hi \sh
[12:03] <Keybuk> Diziet: you can ;)
[12:04] <Keybuk> replace /sbin/init with a shell-script
[12:04] <Diziet> Yes, but then init won't have pid 1 and it will do something stupid.
[12:04] <Keybuk> exec strace init
[12:04] <Keybuk> well, yes, that doesn't quite work
[12:05] <Keybuk> what you could do is fork in the script and wait for the parent to change to init,and then strace it
[12:05] <Keybuk> with the parent doing exec init to keep init as pid=1
[12:05] <Diziet> The kernel stops you ptraceing init.
[12:05] <Keybuk> you could comment that code out ;)
[12:05] <Diziet> :-).  You could do it with subterfugue perhaps.
[12:05] <lathiat> pff comment
[12:05] <lathiat> binary patch
[12:07] <Keybuk> though quite a bit happens before init these days
[12:12] <Keybuk> Diziet: do you know much about it?
[12:12] <Diziet> Not much.  AIUI it's very similar to initrd.
[12:13] <Keybuk> hmm
[12:13] <Keybuk> there's a bunch of recent bugs that devices just aren't appearing in /dev
[12:13] <jdub> it's just a simpler initrd, basically
[12:13] <Keybuk> they seem to co-incide exactly with the move to initramfs
[12:14] <Diziet> What kind of devices not appearing in /dev ?  We're not using devfs so why wouldn't they always be there ?
[12:14] <Keybuk> we use udev
[12:14] <Diziet> Augh.
[12:14] <Keybuk> things like input/mice, rtc, hdd, etc.
[12:14] <Keybuk> those are all created by udevstart, which is being done in initramfs
[12:14] <Diziet> What, before / is mounted ?
[12:15] <Keybuk> I was wondering whether initramfs is started a bit earlier in the kernel ... so there's a chance it's not fully up
[12:15] <Keybuk> yeah
[12:15] <Keybuk> crazy, eh? :p
[12:15] <Diziet> So how could it create the devices on / ?
[12:15] <Keybuk> /dev is a ram disk
[12:15] <Keybuk> the mount just gets moved over
[12:15] <Keybuk> tmpfs on /dev type tmpfs (rw,size=10M,mode=0755)
[12:15] <jdub> Keybuk: dunno about concretely earlier, but certainly faster
[12:16] <Diziet> ramdisk> Cripes, so it is.
[12:16] <Diziet> And yes, initramfs starts very early I think.  You should run the udev setup after most of the probey stuff.
[12:16] <Diziet> It's all modularised now, so you should expect to have to load relevant modules.
[12:17] <Keybuk> yeah, it's all a bit odd
[12:17] <Diziet> I remember fighting with this stuff on liberator.  There's some tool whose name I've forgotten which looks through your lspci and looks them up to see what modules to load.
[12:17] <Keybuk> hotplug does something like that
[12:17] <Diziet> It might have been hotplug.
[12:18] <Keybuk> though iterates /sys
[12:18] <Keybuk> rather than just using lspci
[12:18] <Diziet> /sys, lspci> all the same really.
[12:18] <Keybuk> this is all changing anyway, the kernel's actually outputting a useful $MODALIAS variable now
[12:18] <Keybuk> so "load relevant module" just turns into "modprobe $MODALIAS"
[12:19] <Keybuk> rather than needing things like grepmap or the hotplug shell to work it out
[12:19] <Diziet> Perhaps the modules haven't finished setting up by the time the udev setup runs.
[12:20] <Diziet> I think that the forensics I'm doing here are too hard.  I'm going to redo my hoary -> breezy upgrade with the whole thing under strace.
[12:20] <Keybuk> yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking about
[12:20] <Keybuk> I suspect we're racing the kernel :-/
[12:22] <Keybuk> the fact there's some "sleep" in here worries me already
[12:22] <Diziet> Except strace is too buggy.
[12:31] <Mithrandir> mjg59: dude, bambam is broken on x86 with lrmi as well
[12:31] <Mithrandir> mjg59: or actually, x86emu works, lrmi is b0rked
[12:36] <dholbach> hi
[12:36] <mbreit> hi dholbach
[12:37] <dholbach> hi moritz
[12:41] <dholbach> hi seb128 
[12:41] <seb128> hey dholbach
[12:41] <seb128> k, totem plugin crashed my box
[12:42] <seb128> after waiting 5 min to get a ps I rebooted
[12:42] <dholbach> ouch
[12:43] <mbreit> btw: here has the clearlooks-olive theme gone to?
[12:43] <dholbach> elmo: do you happen to know what happened about slomo's (sebastian droege's) account?
[12:47] <mbreit> seb128: why are all the /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks-* files missing in latest gtk2-engines-clearlooks?
[12:48] <seb128> $ ls /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks/
[12:48] <seb128> gtk-2.0  index.theme  metacity-1
[12:48] <seb128> they are not here
[12:49] <j^> seb128 not Clearlooks/ but /Clearlooks-*
[12:49] <mbreit> i mean /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks-Olive/* for example
[12:49] <seb128> there is no Clearlooks-*
[12:49] <mbreit> seb128: there was in gtk2-engines 2.6.5-0ubuntu1..
[12:50] <seb128> upstream drop them when they moved the it to gnome-themes
[12:50] <seb128> mbreit: no way, 2.6.5 is the gtk-engine version
[12:51] <mbreit> seb128: dpkg -L gtk2-engines-clearlooks with gtk2-engines-clearlooks 2.6.5-0ubuntu1 installed shows me all the files
[12:51] <seb128> that's the current version
[12:51] <seb128> what is your issue if all the files are here with the current version?
[12:51] <mbreit> lol... okay, i just saw it... but an amd64 (same version) they are missing
[12:52] <seb128> /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[12:52] <seb128> /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/engines/libclearlooks.so
[12:52] <seb128> that's what it's supposed to ship
[12:52] <seb128> and that's all
[12:52] <seb128> what 2.6.5 deb has other files?
[12:53] <mbreit> on x86 it ships  /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks-Olive/gtk-2.0/gtkrc as well (as an example)
[12:53] <seb128> no
[12:53] <seb128> $ dpkg -c gtk2-engines-clearlooks_1%3a2.6.5-0ubuntu1_i386.deb | grep Olive
[12:53] <seb128> $
[12:54] <mbreit> ahh... okay, i have gtk2-engines-clearlooks 0.6.2-1 from the clearlooks-package installed on x86... my mistake
[12:54] <seb128> yeah, that was the pre-GNOME version
[12:54] <mbreit> but anyway... the update to 2.6.5 broke my gnome-desktop...
[12:54] <seb128> they dropped the variant when they moved it to the new place
[12:54] <sedak> seb128, are you in charge of anjuta for ubuntu ?
[12:55] <seb128> sedak: no, it's an universe stuff, ask #ubuntu-motu
[12:55] <sedak> i see that you've been assigned to one of its bug ...
[12:55] <seb128> mbreit: upstream decision
[12:55] <sedak> ok
[12:55] <seb128> sedak: the one with pango?
[12:55] <sedak> yes
[12:55] <sedak> and there is a new upstream version that correct the problem
[12:56] <mbreit> seb128: but this is a serious bug when upgrading... i found out that switching to another theme solved all my problems, but will the avarage user understand that as well?
[12:56] <seb128> the bug is assigned to me because the guy bugged on pango
[12:56] <sedak> ah ok
[12:56] <seb128> mbreit: average users don't use unstable version
[12:56] <seb128> mbreit: and the human theme has no issue
[12:56] <sedak> actually, it seems it was anjuta the probleme because the new version work
[12:57] <sedak> i'll ask the motus
[12:57] <seb128> thanks
[12:57] <mbreit> seb128: i know, but if a user select clearlooks-olive as a theme and then upgrade to breezy (when it's released)....?
[12:57] <seb128> mbreit: does hoary ship this one?
[12:58] <mbreit> clearlooks-olive as a theme? yes, i think so
[12:58] <seb128> he's screwed
[12:58] <seb128> nothing I can do about it
[12:58] <seb128> upstream dropped it
[12:59] <mbreit> hmm... not good... it really broke everything here...
[12:59] <Diziet> Is someone already looking into the weird splash screen effect ?
[12:59] <Diziet> (That was discussed here yesterday.)
[01:00] <seb128> what sort of effect?
[01:00] <mbreit> seb128: every second gtk-program segfaults..
[01:00] <seb128> mbreit: changing your theme is not that a big deal
[01:00] <mbreit> seb128: nautilus won't run..
[01:00] <seb128> mbreit: what version of libgtk2.0 do you have?
[01:01] <seb128> libgtk2.0-0
[01:01] <Diziet> I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to look like but I'm sure this is wrong.  I get a splash-screen like affair with a strange blank rectangle in part of the bottom half of the screen.
[01:01] <mbreit> seb128: 2.8.2-1
[01:01] <seb128> mbreit: get a backtrace for upstream, your issue is not known
[01:01] <Diziet> Conversation yesterday suggests that it's supposed to be for scrolling console output.
[01:01] <mbreit> seb128: as i said, changing the theme is not a big deal, but the user has to know that changing the theme helps..
[01:01] <seb128> mbreit: you didn't say it crash
[01:02] <seb128> mbreit: it's just supposed to change the look and that's what it does for other people
[01:03] <mbreit> seb128: hmm... okay... hopefully it will do it even on amd64 after release ;)
[01:04] <seb128> do you have a backtrace of these crash?
[01:04] <mbreit> no, i have not... i will try to reproduce it somehow..
[01:07] <HiddenWolf> gnagnagna: 'Mogelijk toch overname Antonveneta door ABN Amro'
[01:11] <HiddenWolf> whoops
[01:11] <HiddenWolf> sorry
[01:12] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: ELANGUAGE
[01:12] <mbreit> seb128: sorry, i can't reproduce it... with another user on xnest it works... just uses the gtk-default-theme...
[01:12] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks, shush
[01:19] <mbreit> seb128: is there any chance that Clearlooks-Olive comes back? or should i prepare a new package for universe? (i would really like to have that theme in breezy...)
[01:20] <Mithrandir> mjg59: hmm, what about the case where all available versions of vbetool breaks?
[01:20] <Mithrandir> mjg59: 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R200 QL [Radeon 8500 LE]  is the card, arch is x86
[01:22] <daniels> Mithrandir: then your BIOS sucks
[01:22] <Mithrandir> daniels: as in motherboard bios?
[01:22] <Mithrandir> or video bios?
[01:22] <daniels> Mithrandir: video BIOS
[01:23] <Mithrandir> I'll find some random other card, then
[01:36] <seb128> mbreit: do a new package probably
[01:39] <mbreit> seb128: if there are more people missing that theme... i don't want to break FF just for me ;)
[01:42] <Mez> mdz: why did you change a bug assigned to me over to Riddell? 
[02:20] <mvo> ping Mithrandir 
[02:20] <Mithrandir> yes?
[02:20] <mvo> Mithrandir: I just read your install report
[02:20] <mvo> is the language-support-en package on the cd you used?
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: it's in ship
[02:21] <lathiat> hrm
[02:21] <lathiat> somethings happene dto xine/totem-xine
[02:21] <lathiat> when fullscreen you get lines adn stuff appearign through things
[02:21] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'm not sure, since that machine is busy trying to boot the live cd atm
[02:22] <mvo> Mithrandir: did you do anything after the intall with apt (i.e. apt-get update)? or is it still in the same state that it was when it hanged
[02:22] <Mithrandir> mvo: I tried to do an apt-get update, which might have been what solved it.
[02:22] <Mithrandir> mvo: I can retry the install, if you'd like.
[02:22] <mvo> pitti: yes, it should be on the cd, but aptitude really shouldn't prompt for something untrusted because it's available from the trusted cd
[02:23] <pitti> right
[02:23] <mvo> Mithrandir: apt-get update probably fixed it. is there something "special" about your machine? two nice interfaces for example?
[02:24] <mvo> Mithrandir: I have seen this problem before, it happend when there was no network in stage2 and base-config (or apt-setup) tried to do a apt-get update
[02:24] <Mithrandir> mvo: no, single network interface on that machine.
[02:24] <mvo> Mithrandir: and working network in stage2?
[02:25] <Mithrandir> mvo: given that apt-get update worked, yes
[02:25] <pitti> carlos: you have firewire, right?
[02:25] <mvo> Mithrandir: right, thanks. I'll  do a testinstall now too to see if I can reproduce it
[02:26] <carlos> pitti, yeah, I have a pending email about that from you...
[02:26] <pitti> carlos: can you please /msg me "ls -l /sys/bus/"?
[02:27] <carlos> I'm not using that computer atm
[02:27] <carlos> will do it after lunch (I'm in a meeting atm)
[02:29] <pitti> carlos: oh, ok
[02:31] <pitti> carlos: nevermind, I got it already
[02:32] <carlos> pitti, ok
[02:40] <jordi> heh, according to the Cyborg Generator,..
[02:40] <jordi> S.A.B.D.F.L.: Synthetic Artificial Battle and Dangerous Fighting Lifeform
[02:40] <pitti> ouch
[02:40] <fabbione> ehhehe hi jordi
[02:40] <jordi> carlos: dude, when does the status page update?
[02:40] <jordi> ffs
[02:41] <jordi> I've been waiting for an update all morning
[02:41] <jordi> (I mean GNOME's)
[02:41] <ajmitch> hey jordi 
[02:41] <carlos> jordi, three times/day
[02:41] <jordi> hi andrew
[02:42] <jordi> carlos: dude
[02:42] <jordi> for catalan that should be 2 times every hour
[02:43] <carlos> jordi, I'm working on near realtime updates...
[02:43] <carlos> jordi, but still need days with 48hours :-)
[02:50] <jordi> carlos: free time is overrated
[02:50] <jordi> just DO IT
[03:06] <Mithrandir> mjg59: when vbetool fails _the same way_ in 32 bit and 64 bit mode, (using the x86emu mode in the 64 bit case), is it then ok?
[03:14] <pvanhoof> lynx-qt depends on libaiksaurus0c102
[03:14] <pvanhoof> however
[03:14] <pvanhoof> libaiksaurus0 replaces it
[03:14] <pvanhoof> makes it impossible to sanely install lyx-qt (or any other lyx related package)
[03:15] <pvanhoof> same for
[03:15] <pvanhoof> libqt3c102-mt
[03:15] <pvanhoof> and
[03:15] <pvanhoof> libqt3-mt
[03:15] <\sh> pvanhoof: this is universe..
[03:15] <\sh> pvanhoof: and yes we know about it
[03:15] <pvanhoof> ok. is there a workaround?
[03:16] <\sh> pvanhoof: yes...fix it, provide a debdiff, and put it on wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps
[03:16] <pvanhoof> :p
[03:16] <\sh> (with your Name)
[03:16] <\sh> pvanhoof: or wait until we fix it...
[03:16] <siretart> elmo: around?
[03:16] <\sh> (what we're doing in the meantime)
[03:16] <pvanhoof> getting the source :)
[03:17] <pvanhoof> how do I make a debdiff and in what file are the dependencies written?
[03:18] <siretart> pvanhoof: there is no lynx-qt
[03:18] <pvanhoof> lyx-qt
[03:18] <siretart> pvanhoof: I already fixed it for me, but bob2 promised me to upload a fixed version to unstable
[03:18] <pvanhoof> actually, I just wanted to install lyx
[03:18] <siretart> pvanhoof: I'd rather sync his version
[03:19] <siretart> pvanhoof: lyx is b0rken in breezy. we need 1.3.6
[03:19] <pvanhoof> ok
[03:19] <pvanhoof> then I'll just wait for you guys :)
[03:20] <pvanhoof> ok then :). is there an alternative for \pagebreak in latex? I want a block of content to never split (when a page breaks) :)
[03:20] <pvanhoof> (which is why I wanted to install lyx)
[03:20] <pvanhoof> :p
[03:21] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Probably, though we've managed to get it to behave differently in LRMI and x86emu modes
[03:22] <pitti> pvanhoof: why not enclose it in a quote or figure block?
[03:22] <Mithrandir> mjg59: well, it refuses to work on my radeon 7000, it crashes the same way on my 8500.
[03:22] <pitti> pvanhoof: btw, that's #ubuntu
[03:22] <pvanhoof> a quote block doesn't break?
[03:22] <pvanhoof> pitti, yah yah :) but you guys broke lyx! :)
[03:22] <pitti> pvanhoof: last time I had that problem that worked
[03:23] <pitti> pvanhoof: we didn't -- lyx is universe
[03:25] <\sh> pvanhoof: please join -motu if you have some problems with the universe repository...-devel is not the right channel
[03:29] <lathiat> seb128: ping
[03:31] <seb128> lathiat: pong
[03:32] <doko> elmo, mdz: please promote mdbtools, bsh and javacc to main, reviewed by pitti. current OOo2 build fails
[03:32] <lathiat> seb128: are you aware of this constant metacity crashing?
[03:32] <pitti> lathiat: it doesn?
[03:32] <seb128> no
[03:32] <lathiat> hrm ok
[03:32] <seb128> no bug, no crash here
[03:32] <pitti> WMF too
[03:32] <seb128> no bug, no fix
[03:32] <slomo> lamont: please remove xawtv and bb from dep-wait
[03:32] <lathiat> anyone using gajim?
[03:32] <lathiat> it seems to trigger it most often
[03:32] <lathiat> when it pops its dialogs ups
[03:33] <pitti> lathiat: gaim, you mean? I use it
[03:33] <lathiat> pitti: no, gajim
[03:33] <lathiat> with a j
[03:33] <lathiat> nm 
[03:33] <lathiat> i'll file a bug when it happens next
[03:33] <pitti> uh, so that wasn't a typo, sorry
[03:33] <seb128> pitti: a new pygtk jabber stuff
[03:34] <dholbach> pvanhoof: texdoctk might now
[03:34] <dholbach> pvanhoof: texdoctk might know
[03:34] <pitti> dholbach: Hi! btw, I gave him some hints in #ubuntu
[03:34] <dholbach> pitti: hey martin :)
[03:36] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[03:36] <Mitario> hi mvo 
[03:42] <sivang> seb128: I'm gonna give gnomemeeting last try today, but I have not yet succeded, do you like to try yourself?
[03:42] <seb128> I can do it if you want
[03:43] <sivang> seb128: I'd like to try another time , I will let you know around evening if I cannot ok?
[03:43] <sivang> seb128: (I had problem with the menu structer not being of GTK_MENU, so I am going to try a cast)
[03:43] <seb128> sivang: k
[03:47] <sivang> seb128: I'm curious, have you finished with firefox already, if so was it alot of work?
[03:49] <seb128> I'm working on it
[03:49] <sivang> seb128: is it much trouble? (firefox's code always sounds scary :) )
[03:50] <seb128> it doesn't work for the moment no
[03:53] <Diziet> mjg59: Did you see my messages ^ up there about usplash ?
[03:54] <Mithrandir> mjg59: so, just plain vbetool vbestate save > /tmp/vbestate ; vbetool post ; vbetool vbestate restore < /tmp/vbestate seems not to do the completely right thing even on my x40.  It's supposed to leave the display in the mode it was in before running the command?
[03:54] <sivang> seb128: I see, well I'll not bug you and let you continue ...
[03:55] <lathiat> ok,free tip of the day: don't run gdb on metacity inside the X session metacity is running on
[03:55] <seb128> lathiat: sure, you lock your wm which is quite useful to use your desktop :p
[03:55] <sivang> lathiat: lol, that's today's 50c :)
[03:56] <Diziet> Woah, heavy hail here suddenly.
[03:56] <sivang> lathiat: maybe you can run gdb from one of the text tty, and CTRL+ALT+F(n) to switch 
[03:56] <lathiat> and even after killing gdb/metacity, it still wouldnt go :)
[03:56] <lathiat> sivang: yeh thats what i'll try now ;p
[03:56] <lathiat> ok so who here has jabber/google talk thats not on my list
[03:56] <lathiat> i need to add someoen to trigger this popup box which crashes it reliably
[03:56] <sivang> lathiat: I have jabber, just not google's
[03:56] <lathiat> i said or
[03:56] <lathiat> :)
[03:56] <lathiat> i i said /
[03:57] <lathiat> oops
[03:57] <lathiat> either is fine im on both
[03:57] <Diziet> And lightning too.
[03:57] <sivang> lathiat: what's wrong with metacity that yu need to gdb it?
[03:58] <lathiat> sivang: it crashes 
[03:58] <lathiat> whenever gajim pops up one of its dialogs
[03:59] <j^> the "battery at -1 minutes" dialog crashes it too
[03:59] <lathiat> and of course
[03:59] <lathiat> it didnt do it then
[04:01] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ideally, but once X has run that doesn't seem to necessarily be the case
[04:01] <mjg59> And you may need to hit return
[04:02] <mjg59> Diziet: Uhm. Sorry, no - I haven't got all of the scrollback. What was the issue?
[04:02] <sivang> lathiat: ah, joy
[04:02] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I get a prompt back and things seems to work, but my screen is full of green and blue vertical bars.  They go away if I C-l or reset or something like that.  Is that good, then?
[04:02] <lathiat> 9
[04:02] <Diziet> Well, basically, I don't know what it's supposed to look like but it definitely looks weird.  There's a sort of cream-coloured logo screen with a strange blank paler rectangle in the bottom half.
[04:02] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Uh. Not something I've seen.
[04:02] <mjg59> Diziet: What hardware is this?
[04:02] <Diziet> The blank rectangle looks like it's supposed to have something in it.
[04:02] <mjg59> Yes
[04:03] <Mithrandir> mjg59: same thing on my x40 and this other gf5600 fx
[04:03] <mjg59> The rectangle is for the text from the init scripts that will appear once /dev migration works
[04:03] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Is this the vbetool in the archive or the bambam one?
[04:03] <Mithrandir> mjg59: archive.
[04:03] <mjg59> Oh. Ok.
[04:03] <Mithrandir> I can try bambam if you think that works better.
[04:03] <Diziet> Desktop with an Intel motherboard and onboard video.
[04:03] <mjg59> Diziet: Ok. That sounds correct.
[04:03] <mjg59> The picture will look more attractive soon, and the box will contain stuff soon.
[04:03] <Diziet> Well, it doesn't _look_ correct.  It looks like something malfunctioned.
[04:04] <Diziet> Oh, right, if you already know the box is empty and are going to fill it then that's fine :-).
[04:04] <Diziet> I'll stop nagging.
[04:04] <Diziet> But in the meantime we could put `this space will be filled RSN' in it :-).
[04:05] <mjg59> I'm planning on chasing Jeff over it
[04:05] <Diziet> OK.
[04:05] <Mithrandir> mjg59: http://err.no/pictures/2005-08-25/medium/DSC01192.JPG is a picture.
[04:05] <mjg59> Once that works, it's a trivial patch to lsb-init to make stuff start appearing
[04:05] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ooh, cool
[04:05] <jbailey> mjg59: I have the migration stuff tested here.
[04:05] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Very odd
[04:05] <mjg59> jbailey: Ooh, rock
[04:05] <mjg59> jbailey: When can you upload? :)
[04:06] <Diziet> mith: Wow, it doesn't do that to me :-).
[04:06] <jbailey> mjg59: Gimme an hour for another round of testing?
[04:06] <mjg59> jbailey: Sure, no problem
[04:06] <Mithrandir> mjg59: X has ran, yes.
[04:06] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ah. Try saving the state before X has run
[04:06] <mjg59> And then always use that state file
[04:07] <Mithrandir> mjg59: hmm, that's going to be hard, this is the live cd, but I'll try.
[04:07] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, right. Wurgh.
[04:08] <Thunder000> hello. For some reason Breezy didn't detect my laptop DVDRW during installation.
[04:09] <Thunder000> My laptop is Acer TravelMate 4152LMi
[04:09] <mjg59> Thunder000: Please file a bug
[04:09] <mjg59> If you can include lspci and dmesg output, that would be great
[04:09] <Thunder000> the DVDRW is SlimType SOSW-833S
[04:10] <hawk_78> Acer laptops are a nightmare!
[04:10] <lathiat> mjg59: so, can vga16fb draw to an offscreen framebuffer
[04:10] <lathiat> mjg59: and then switch to it
[04:10] <lathiat> mjg59: so the splash screen appears instantly rather than seeign it draw down the screen? :)
[04:10] <mjg59> lathiat: A good question. I have no idea. I'm pretty sure bogl doesn't support it.
[04:10] <lathiat> that sucks
[04:11] <Thunder000> mjg59: how do I include lspci and dmesg output ? when it is not installing ?
[04:11] <lathiat> seb128: bah, debugging metacity is pain
[04:11] <lathiat> seb128: now when it crashy, i couldnt switch to my console
[04:11] <mjg59> Thunder000: Oh, right, it's that level of failure to detect? Please just file a bug against debian-installer, then
[04:12] <seb128> lathiat: ctrl-alt-F2 should still work
[04:12] <lathiat> seb128: as opposed to F1?
[04:12] <Mithrandir> mjg59: the Acer has a SATA DVDRW, I think.
[04:13] <lathiat> Mithrandir: oh thats gonna be nice
[04:13] <Mithrandir> lathiat: as in "doesn't work", sure.
[04:13] <lathiat> Mithrandir: yeh 'zactly
[04:14] <seb128> lathiat: no, any F
[04:15] <lathiat> seb128: hrm
[04:15] <lathiat> se	weird
[04:15] <lathiat> maybe it wasnt metacity that went bang then
[04:15] <lathiat> blah
[04:15] <lathiat> i'll attach gdb over ssh from another machien this time
[04:18] <sivang> lathiat: mybe something in x itself
[04:20] <lathiat> ok who else wants to add me to jabber
[04:26] <lathiat> yay go ta backtrace
[04:26] <Mithrandir> mjg59: hah, same thing with a pre-X-saved-vbestate.
[04:27] <Mithrandir> mjg59: but the machine has had a framebuffer up, does that matter?
[04:27] <mvo> seb128: it looks like #14006 is actually a gtk bug ... downgrading to 2.6.4 made the problem go away
[04:30] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, vga16fb?
[04:30] <mjg59> Yeah, that might do it
[04:30] <Mithrandir> mjg59: "live cd", whatever that gives me.
[04:31] <mjg59> Uhm. Christ knows.
[04:31] <mjg59> It's probably vga16fb, but could you check?
[04:31] <seb128> mvo: not cool
[04:31] <Mithrandir> mjg59: vgafb and vesafb are both loaded.
[04:31] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I can retry with d-i/framebuffer=off though
[04:32] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Which one has a usage count of 1?
[04:32] <mvo> seb128: no, looks tricky :/
[04:32] <Mithrandir> mjg59: vga16fb
[04:32] <martink> doko, I have another idea for ooo-amd64 themes: (copy the 32bit engine to /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/engines and) export GTK_PATH=/usr/lib32/gtk-2.0 before starting an ooo application
[04:32] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ok
[04:51] <Thunder000> is there a way to insall ubuntu using a network installation ?
[04:52] <AnnoyWolf> Thunder000, yes, possible, but ask in #ubuntu
[04:55] <GNULinuxer> is there any status page for the ubuntu graphical installer?
[05:02] <HiddenWolf> GNULinuxer, if it's not on the wiki, it's not there
[05:03] <GNULinuxer> HiddenWolf: I want to beta test the installer
[05:32] <dholbach> jdub: ping
[05:32] <seb128> pitti: bugzilla is up again
[05:33] <dholbach> does anybody know how to let mailman accept *@random.host.com on a moderated list?
[05:33] <Mez> dholbach: it's not that hard
[05:34] <Mez> one sec, lemme load up a mailing list
[05:34] <dholbach> Mez: can you lead me to the option - subscribing *@bugs.launchpad.net didnt work
[05:35] <Mez> privacy options -> sending filters -> Non-member Filters-> accept_these_non_members
[05:35] <Mez> in there I have 
[05:35] <Mez> ^(.*)ubuntu.com
[05:40] <dholbach> Mez: super... thank you very much
[05:40] <dholbach> universe-bugs@ is now operational!
[05:40] <dholbach> thanks jdub too :)
[05:49] <mdz> doko: done
[05:49] <pitti> Morning mdz
[05:49] <dholbach> hi mdz 
[05:49] <mdz> Mithrandir,pitti: CD problem?
[05:50] <mdz> morning
[05:50] <pitti> mdz: I suspected CD overflow, just as we had in Hoary (this also killed xresprobe), but that doesn't seem to be the case
[05:51] <mvo> hey mdz, good morning
[05:53] <mdz> 281 new bug mails overnight, yay
[05:54] <dholbach> mdz: universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com is now operational too, but i guess you read that in the backlog already :)
[05:55] <Diziet> Is keybuk about ?
[05:56] <_derek_>  /topic
[05:56] <_derek_> blah
[05:56] <_derek_> sorry
[05:58] <HiddenWolf> mdz, good to see you're keeping busy. :)
[06:00] <mdz> pitti: the CD did overflow
[06:01] <pitti> mdz: hm, Tollef told me it was 645 MB?
[06:02] <Mez> mdz: I'm wondering if I can get permission to break UVF for katapult (I'll need someone to sponsor it)
[06:03] <Mez> We've fixed a couple of bugs that are pretty useful :D
[06:03] <Diziet> I think I have an oddity in dpkg conffile processing so I'm reading the dpkg bugslist.  It's remarkably full of a lot of crap.
[06:03] <Diziet> And real bugs too.  Lovely mixture.
[06:04] <mdz> pitti: 
[06:04] <mdz> + Trying to add mozilla-thunderbird...
[06:04] <mdz>   @dep before checklist = mozilla-thunderbird
[06:04] <mdz>   @dep after checklist = mozilla-thunderbird
[06:04] <mdz> CD 1 filled with 647962888 bytes ... (limit was 653262848)
[06:04] <mdz> Limit for CD 2 is 671088640.
[06:05] <mdz> pitti: mozilla-thunderbird was larger than the space remaining on the CD
[06:05] <pitti> mdz: ah, so this is from non-intelligent ordering
[06:05] <pitti> ok
[06:05] <pitti> mdz: how much more is required?
[06:05] <mdz> debian-cd is not the sharpest tool in the shed
[06:06] <pitti> mdz: I can trash some langpacks
[06:06] <mdz> CD 2 will only be filled with 25983558 bytes ...
[06:06] <mdz> !
[06:06] <pitti> GASP
[06:06] <pitti> how on earth could this grow by 20 MB in three days???
[06:06] <pitti> that would mean to kill almost all langpacks
[06:07] <mdz> hmm
[06:07] <mdz> linux-kernel-headers appeared on the CD
[06:07] <mdz> that wasn't there yesterday
[06:07] <pitti> that's only required for development...
[06:08] <mdz> maybe it overflowed yesterday too
[06:08] <mdz> because it should have been there, as part of build-essential
[06:08] <pitti> grumpf
[06:08] <pitti> we already totally castrated the live cd, language-wise
[06:09] <pitti> well, for the live CD we should probably rather kill the win software
[06:09] <pitti> no sense to support this corner case and make it so much less useful to demonstrate Ubuntu IMHO
[06:10] <pitti> but I'll mail u-d about that
[06:10] <pitti> mdz: so shall I kill some langpacks for now? or maybe tbird?
[06:10] <mdz> pitti: I'm looking at it to try to see what happened
[06:10] <pitti> ok, thanks
[06:12] <mdz> it has been overflowing for days
[06:12] <mdz> this really should error out :-(
[06:13] <Amaranth> woo, i got mIRC to install
[06:13] <Amaranth> hi guys, long time no type
[06:13] <tseng> Amaranth: um.
[06:13] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth, mirc is windows, right?
[06:13] <Amaranth> yes
[06:13] <mdz> libgl1-mesa-dri is HUGE
[06:13] <Amaranth> i'm at school
[06:13] <HiddenWolf> de
[06:13] <tseng> Amaranth: http://www.silverex.org/news/ < save yourself
[06:14] <Amaranth> tseng: It can install into one random folder and run without any extra stuff?
[06:14] <tseng> i believe so
[06:14] <Amaranth> oh, and does it come in as a zip file?
[06:14] <tseng> no
[06:14] <mdz> we could drop emacs from the CD
[06:15] <Amaranth> tseng: Then I'm stuck. :/
[06:15] <mdz> seb128: do we need desktop-base?  it seems to only contain debian branding
[06:16] <seb128> mdz: no
[06:16] <seb128> we can trash it
[06:16] <mdz> seb128: something depends on it
[06:17] <mdz> we should use bzip2 for linux-headers
[06:17] <mdz> fabbione: around?
[06:17] <mdz> python-numeric's deps are huge too
[06:17] <seb128> mdz: gnome-session Depends on it, but I can change that
[06:17] <mdz> all that atlas/lapack stuff
[06:18] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[06:19] <comic> hello, I have a problem with amsn shows east error to me
[06:19] <comic> /home/comic # amsn
[06:19] <comic> Application initialization failed: this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black"
[06:19] <comic> Error in startup script: can't invoke "wm" command:  application has been destroyed
[06:19] <comic>     while executing
[06:19] <comic> "wm state . withdraw"
[06:19] <comic>     (file "amsn" line 43)
[06:21] <Diziet> Should I expect to get correct information from   http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/python/python-imaging / Download python-imaging [list of files]    ?
[06:22] <mdz> 5.7M linux-headers-2.6.12-7_2.6.12-7.11_i386.deb  4.7M linux-headers.deb
[06:22] <mdz> there's 1M savings on the CD right there
[06:22] <mdz> Diziet: no
[06:22] <Diziet> I see.  OK.  It might be a good idea to remove it.
[06:26] <Amaranth> that's better
[06:26] <hawk_78> How do find which pid is using a kernel module, please?
[06:26] <Amaranth> if i compress the firefox and xchat dirs then extract them to the local computer to run them, i have enough space on my network share
[06:26] <hawk_78> I don't remenbere the command to use!
[06:27] <pitti_live> Hi
[06:27] <pitti_live> seb128: hmm, the trash applet crashed immediately at session start, known bug?
[06:27] <Amaranth> hi
[06:27] <pitti_live> seb128: (current live CD)
[06:28] <seb128> pitti_live: no, backtrace?
[06:28] <pitti_live> seb128: tricky at session start, but let me try it again
[06:29] <seb128> pitti_live: no bug-buddy dialog?
[06:29] <pitti_live> seb128: nope
[06:30] <pitti_live> seb128: although b-b is installed
[06:30] <Diziet> Who's in charge of python-imaging ?  It has a mistake in the python2.3 package that gets spat into universe (it has file overlaps with the _all.deb in main).
[06:31] <dholbach> Diziet: we need to sync the debian version, ajmitch told me
[06:32] <pitti_live> seb128: hmm, what's the binary name for the trash applet? I can't find it in the "Add to panel" dialog either
[06:32] <Diziet> dholbash: I see.  Is someone on the case ?
[06:33] <seb128> pitti_live: /usr/lib/gnome-applets/trashapplet
[06:33] <hawk_78> Python modules can now be built using easy-deb from pypi.
[06:33] <dholbach> Diziet: elmo can sync it, but he doesnt seem to be around
[06:33] <dholbach> Diziet: i will double check and write him a mail
[06:33] <hawk_78> easy-deb creates debs with a python egg inside.
[06:34] <hawk_78> it can be used to allow multiple parallel versions of hte same module
[06:34] <hawk_78> (I'm the author :-))
[06:34] <Diziet> dh: Ta.
[06:37] <jdthood> pitti_live: How is asoundconf coming?
[06:39] <pitti_live> jdthood: I mailed you recently
[06:39] <pitti_live> jdthood: first version is ready, but not for Breezy unfortunately
[06:39] <jdthood> pitti_live: Oh?  I didn't get your mail!
[06:40] <pitti_live> jdthood: not? odd...
[06:40] <pitti_live> jdthood: I bounce it
[06:41] <pitti_live> jdthood: can you please ping me again in ~half an hour? I'm currently debugging sth on the live cd
[06:41] <mdz> infinity/lamont-away: can you confirm that oo.o2 is building
[06:41] <mdz> pitti_live: what's happening?
[06:42] <pitti_live> mdz: trash applet crashes immediately
[06:42] <pitti_live> mdz: btw, I still get the resolution question on the live CD, but xresprobe is installed
[06:44] <mdz> pitti_live: check /var/log/casper/post.log
[06:44] <mdz> hawk_78: that's interesting
[06:45] <mdz> hawk_78: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonModulePackaging
[06:45] <hawk_78> That was my target!
[06:45] <mdz> hawk_78: oh, what is your name?
[06:46] <mdz> hawk_78: are you the student who has been working with doko through google?
[06:46] <hawk_78> I'm the SoC student: Vincenzo
[06:46] <mdz> ok
[06:46] <mdz> welcome :-)
[06:46] <hawk_78> Thank you!
[06:46] <mdz> hawk_78: is there a web page where we can read about your implementation?
[06:47] <hawk_78> Not yet, but I have uploade the project on pypi...
[06:48] <hawk_78> there is a readme file inside the distribution...
[06:48] <hawk_78> I'm waiting sf to approve my project
[06:49] <hawk_78> The best resources to understand my job are from setuptools documentation: http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools
[06:50] <hawk_78> easy-deb uses setuptools to create eggs...
[06:51] <hawk_78> but this belongs to the project page, not to this channel, right?
[06:54] <mdz> hawk_78: both are OK
[06:54] <hawk_78> I have a little set of packages made using easy-deb... one of them is PIL
[06:54] <mdz> hawk_78: I would like to read about how to use your tools
[06:54] <mdz> i.e., documentation
[06:55] <Diziet> Ahhh, I see what's happening with xinitrc now.
[06:55] <Diziet> xbase-clients gets upgraded to the version without it and so dpkg forgets about the fact that xinitrc was ever a conffile owned by anyone.
[06:55] <hawk_78> mdz: I can send you the readme and the --help output.
[06:55] <mdz> hawk_78: send it to ubuntu-devel, please, for the benefit of others
[06:56] <hawk_78> ok...
[07:12] <jdthood> Diziet: Were you bitten by Debian bug #163657?
[07:12] <hawk_78> done...
[07:12] <hawk_78> I also updated the pypi page with the same info.
[07:13] <hawk_78> http://www.python.org/pypi/easydeb
[07:13] <mdz> hawk_78: thanks
[07:14] <hawk_78> to test the project you can download from :
[07:14] <hawk_78> deb http://hawk.linuxpratico.net/pypi ./
[07:14] <hawk_78> deb-src http://hawk.linuxpratico.net/pypi ./
[07:14] <mdz> hawk_78: this looks very nice!
[07:14] <mdz> hawk_78: have you had fun with the project?
[07:15] <hawk_78> I had a lot!
[07:15] <hawk_78> The fun part was to make it autpackage itself!
[07:16] <mdz> hehe
[07:16] <mdz> hawk_78: I was going to ask how we would package easydeb itself ;-)
[07:16] <mdz> pitti: did you get my bugzilla comment before leaving the live CD?
[07:17] <mdz> pitti: you can get additional debug output from xresprobe
[07:17] <pitti> mdz: no?
[07:17] <hawk_78> I'm still waiting doko to say it is really ok. So if anyone wants to test/help/suggest... Please do it!
[07:17] <mdz> XRESPROBE_DEBUG=yes xresprobe nv
[07:17] <pitti> mdz: ok, same bug seems to occur in my installed system
[07:17] <pitti> so I do it just here
[07:18] <pitti> mdz: looks still boring...
[07:18] <pitti> $ sudo ddcprobe
[07:18] <pitti> VESA BIOS Extensions not detected.
[07:18] <pitti> hmm, maybe something is more deeply broken here...
[07:18] <mdz> pitti: it leaves the X logfile behind in /tmp
[07:19] <mdz> check that
[07:19] <pitti> mdz: ok, booting back to the live CD
[07:24] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: ping
[07:25] <siretart> wow. I'm impressed
[07:25] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: pong
[07:25] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: You had touchpad click = middleclick problems too?
[07:25] <siretart> the wifi light of my madwifi card now blinks exactly then when there is traffic going over the air
[07:25] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: (it seems my touchpad is doing that..)
[07:25] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: given that I haven't had a touchpad for five years or so, no, I don't think so.
[07:26] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: hm.. then who was it :)
[07:26] <Diziet> jdthood: No, #108587.
[07:26] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I don't know, but I dislike touchpads, so.. :-)
[07:27] <Diziet> #163657 looks annoying too.
[07:27] <jdthood> Diziet: ah, yes, that was the one I was really looking for
[07:27] <Treenaks> We need a "search" option for lists.ubuntu.com
[07:27] <Treenaks> or get them google listed
[07:27] <Diziet> Although: can someone coherently explain to me what these `transitional smoothing' packages are for ?
[07:27] <HiddenWolf> Diziet, smoothing transitions, obviously!
[07:27] <Diziet> They seem to have arisen a few years ago and been a very infectious meme.
[07:27] <Mithrandir> Diziet: smoothing transitions?
[07:28] <Diziet> Thanks everyone for your detailed description of the problem.
[07:28] <HiddenWolf> Diziet, sorry, but that was asking for it. ;)
[07:28] <dholbach> Diziet: it's for having proper upgrade paths (across releases)
[07:29] <Mithrandir> Diziet: once in a while, packages go away and instead of just leaving the user with the old package, a transitional package will depend on the new package so no functionality is lost.
[07:29] <Diziet> Is this a workaround for Replaces not having the right effect on package selection ?
[07:29] <Mithrandir> I think so, yes.
[07:29] <Diziet> Then we should fix Replaces, surely.  In dselect and I suppose apt too.
[07:30] <Mithrandir> it's useful until that happens.
[07:30] <Diziet> It's been around for years!
[07:30] <Mithrandir> Replaces or transitional packages?
[07:30] <Mithrandir> (both, I assume)
[07:30] <Diziet> Because if we fix #108587 in the way described then it will produce two prompts when a locally-modified conffile is part of a package that `goes transitional' IYSWIM.
[07:31] <Diziet> These transitional packages.  You would think that _someone_ would have fixed the root cause by now!
[07:31] <Robot101> Diziet: no people wrote deborphan instead, to remove them when the transitional package doesn't need to be installed any more :P
[07:32] <Mithrandir> Diziet: people are crap at removing crap, they just add more around it.
[07:32] <dholbach> Robot101: if replaces should work and the automagic dependencies removal is in apt, we should all be happy :)
[07:33] <Robot101> dholbach: automagic dependencies removal is in aptitude, because dpkg doesn't have a store for whether or not you explicitly requested a package or whether it was installed to satisfy dependencies
[07:33] <pitti_live> hrmpf, live CD boot takes ages...
[07:33] <Robot101> dholbach: which has the bad side-effect that if you don't use aptitude and try it, it wants to remove everything :P
[07:33] <HiddenWolf> pitti_live, is that news?
[07:33] <dholbach> Robot101: it should be in apt - it exists, but not in the archive yet
[07:33] <jdthood> Transitional packages are sometimes needed in order to satisfy versioned Dependencies.
[07:33] <jdthood> Diziet: Yes, ISWYM.
[07:34] <pitti_live> HiddenWolf, worse than hoary in any case
[07:34] <HiddenWolf> pitti_live, gasp, that's impossible, isn't it?
[07:34] <pitti_live> oh, and I really like having *two* mixer applets :-)
[07:34] <Robot101> Diziet: oh yeah, lack of versioned provides is the other problem :)
[07:35] <Robot101> Diziet: how's your DNS server coming along? :)
[07:35] <Diziet> No, the biggest problem is lack of Breaks.
[07:35] <pitti_live> mdz: hm, so which file in /tmp is interesting for that? I don't see anything particularly interesting
[07:35] <jdthood> It should be added to #108587 that dpkg should be smart enough to ask only one question when a modified conffile is abandoned and adopted in the same run.
[07:35] <Diziet> If we had Breaks then everyone wouldn't be doing the TOTALLY INSANE Conflicts << thing.
[07:35] <Diziet> jdt: In this case apt spoils that because it's not the same run.
[07:36] <jdthood> Diziet: Ooo.  I haven't heard about Breaks before.
[07:36] <Diziet> If you do it in the same run then it'll probably DTRT because it's all done during conffile resolution at the end, ie during configuration.
[07:36] <Diziet> Breaks is a hypothetical field the specification of which is fairly obvious.  If A breaks B then B can't be configured if A is installed.
[07:37] <Diziet> If A is not not-installed or config-files, that is.
[07:37] <jdthood> Diziet: So the double question will appear only on an apt run?
[07:37] <Diziet> I think so./
[07:37] <Diziet> s,/,,
[07:37] <Diziet> I haven't tested it.  I'll fix #108587 tomorrow and find out :-).
[07:37] <Robot101> thanks apt. thapt.
[07:38] <jdthood> Diziet: In that case perhaps dpkg could gain a "don't ask about abandoning conffiles" option which apt would use.
[07:38] <jdthood> Hmm.  But how would it know that the option was needed in a particular case?
[07:38] <Robot101> jdthood: no, that's "adding more crap"
[07:39] <mdz> pitti_live: DEBUG_XRESPROBE=yes sudo xresprobe nv
[07:39] <mdz> pitti_live: then it will tell you the path
[07:39] <Robot101> jdthood: apt should just invoke dpkg properly :P
[07:39] <jdthood> Robot101: What is properly?
[07:39] <Robot101> no more than once unless it has a good reason to distrust dpkg's ordering of operations
[07:40] <pitti_live> mdz: nope :/
[07:40] <jdthood> Diziet: How is "Breaks" supposed to work?
[07:40] <Diziet> jdt: apt, option needed> It couldn't.  It just can't be done right.
[07:41] <Diziet> jdt: It causes dpkg to deconfigure (if you've got that turned on) when the breaking package is installed, or to prevent installation of the breaking package (if deconfiguration is forbidden).
[07:41] <mdz> pitti_live: hmm, maybe that is only for LCDs
[07:42] <pitti_live> mdz: I do have a TFT
[07:42] <Diziet> Breaks would replace nearly every current use of Conflicts <<.
[07:42] <mdz> pitti_live: see /usr/share/xresprobe/xprobe.sh
[07:42] <Diziet> You'd say  Breaks: depender (<< ...)   rather than  Conflicts: depender (<< ...)
[07:42] <Diziet> And it would never try to make it remove depender or impose installation ordering.
[07:42] <pitti_live> mdz: I did a followup to #14151
[07:43] <mdz> pitti_live: yes, the "not cleaning up after Xorg" means it did not run the server
[07:43] <mdz> pitti_live: it used DDC instead
[07:44] <pitti_live> mdz: and DDC does not seem to work
[07:44] <mdz> pitti_live: did it work before?
[07:44] <pitti_live> mdz: I use DVI now, may that be the reason?
[07:44] <mdz> pitti_live: oh, you changed hardware
[07:44] <mdz> pitti_live: well yes, that could be related ;-)
[07:44] <pitti_live> mdz: I never really installed breezy on this box
[07:44] <mdz> pitti_live: or booted breezy live?
[07:44] <pitti_live> I tried several times, but it always failed
[07:45] <lathiat> Anyone know about the glitz stuff? I'm fixing libgnomemm2.0 and while creating the libtool archive for gnomemm it whinges it cant find the glitz la
[07:45] <pitti_live> mdz: I booted it a couple of times before, and always got asked, yes
[07:45] <jdthood> Diziet: So depender would be deconfigured, not removed?
[07:45] <lathiat> and i cant see any references to glitz so im not entirely sure whats up
[07:45] <pitti_live> mdz: but it's a hardware specific bug and no regression, that's fine; I'll try with the hoary live
[07:46] <Diziet> jdt: If necessary, yes.  It would be reconfigured later in the usual course of events.
[07:46] <jdthood> Diziet: Ah, so it would be deconfigured but not marked 'deinstall'?
[07:47] <pitti_live> brb
[07:47] <Diziet> jdt: Indeed so.
[07:47] <Diziet> It would be marked desired to be installed.
[07:48] <jdthood> Diziet: I have seen this proposal before but this is the first time I understand it.
[07:48] <jdthood> Diziet: Is there a wish for it in the Debian BTS?
[07:50] <Diziet> jdt: I don't remember.  It's hardly the kind of thing that needs/wants a bug report.
[07:50] <Diziet> But, no, there isn't.
[07:51] <jAvier0> hi, is here anyone who works with the ubuntu trademark stuff?
[07:54] <jdthood> Diziet: There are already requests for Previously:, Affects:, Suggests-Remove:, Recommends-Remove:, Successor-Of:, Pre-Super-Conflict:, ...
[07:55] <Robot101> Smokes-Crack-With: ...
[07:55] <dholbach> hahaha :)
[07:56] <Diziet> Yes.  But I'm not on crack.  I've had this conversation with other actual dpkg maintainers and they agree with me :-).
[07:56] <Diziet> Most of these additional ideas are barking and usually stem either from a lack of understanding of the existing features or in some cases from some missing stuff (like proper Replaces handling by dselect and apt).
[07:57] <Robot101> aye
[07:58] <Diziet> Lack of hooks or something like it is annoying too.
[07:58] <Diziet> Breaks at least has a specification in some mailing list archive.
[07:58] <Diziet> Unfortunately hooks doesn't - Wichert and I designed it on a cab ride back to an airport some years ago and forgot to write it down.
[08:04] <infinity> mdz : Building on i386 and powerpc, failed on ia64 (as usual), and dep-wait on amd64 (will look into that right now)
[08:05] <mdz> infinity: amd64 should simply fail (or not be tried at all)
[08:07] <infinity> mdz : Well, the broken dep-wait did have that effect. :)
[08:08] <infinity> mdz : If it really shouldn't be tried at all on amd64/ia64, we should change the architecture field so the buildds drop it on the floor.
[08:08] <infinity> mdz : Or toss it in Packages-arch-specific.
[08:08] <mdz> we hope that one day it will work on amd64, but it isn't expected to yet
[08:09] <infinity> Yeah.  Fair enough.
[08:09] <infinity> It fails on ia64 in the first 7 minutes, so it's hardly a bother to have it try there.
[08:09] <infinity> Not sure how far into the build amd64 gets.  We'll see.
[08:11] <phlaegel> jdub: ping
[08:15] <infinity> Oh, wow, that dep-wait on amd64 was "correct"... In other words, there's a typo in debain/control.
[08:17] <infinity> unixodbc-dev (>= 2.8.11) [amd64] 
[08:17] <infinity> That probably should be (>= 2.2.11-8)
[08:18] <infinity> But if it's expected to fail on amd64 later anyway, it's hardly the end of the world.
[08:20] <infinity> doko : See above about openoffice.org2's broken build-dep ---^
[08:21] <slomo> seb128: gnome-volume-properties has a bug: for scanners it has yast2 as default command
[08:21] <seb128> slomo: you want to speak to pitti 
[08:21] <seb128> he's the maintainer for it
[08:22] <slomo> seb128: ok, i'll wait until he returned... thanks :)
[08:23] <seb128> np
[08:24] <elmo> infinity/lamont: I'm about to reboot the firewall that among other things is the choke for the buildds
[08:24] <mdz> infinity: I think at this point it actually builds on amd64, but doesn't work
[08:24] <elmo> shout now if that's crtically bad
[08:24] <mdz> infinity: we should probably do something to ensure it doesn't upload broken binaries
[08:25] <infinity> elmo : Doesn't bug me any.
[08:25] <infinity> mdz : Well, a completely unsatisfiable build-dep does the trick there. :)
[08:26] <mdz> infinity: it does seem likely that oo.o will start working on amd64 before unixodbc reaches 2.8.11...
[08:26] <mdz> but it's hardly optimal ;-)
[08:26] <infinity> slomo : Did you do the xawtv upload?
[08:27] <slomo> infinity: dholbach uploaded it but i made the change
[08:28] <infinity> slomo : Instead of guessing where the app-defaults file will go and then moving it (which you'll notice isn't really all that deterministic), you should just build-dep on imake, which configure uses to put the app-defaults file in the right place.
[08:28] <infinity> slomo : At least, it looks that way to me, from reading a build log quickly.  You might want to actually read configure and see how it determines the path.
[08:28] <slomo> infinity: thanks... good to know :)
[08:29] <infinity> slomo : Note that the build failed on amd64 due to your patch.
[08:29] <infinity> slomo : I'll be around for a bit, if you want to hack up a changed package and have me look it over and sponsor it.
[08:30] <slomo> infinity: i'll do in a few minutes... thanks :) and this app-defaults file was the minor part of my previous change ;)
[08:31] <infinity> slomo : Yes, obviously it was a minor part, it just happens to be the reason it now fails to build. :)
[08:37] <slomo> infinity: you said a build-depend on imake would solve this... but it doesn't... the configure of xawtv looks whether /etc/X11/app-defaults exists and sets the dir to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults otherwise
[08:38] <slomo> infinity: would it be ok to create the directory before calling configure or do you want a better fix?
[08:38] <\sh> seb128: can u tell me what this is..i'm getting it when i start rhythmbox
[08:38] <\sh> The error was 'BadIDChoice (invalid resource ID chosen for this connection)'. (Details: serial 23 error_code 14 request_code 1 minor_code 0)
[08:40] <seb128> \sh: no clue, seems to be an xorg issue
[08:40] <\sh> hmm..
[08:40] <\sh> it's yesterdays daily
[08:40] <\sh> with todays updates
[08:41] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14123 is a known GTK crasher, will be fixed with 2.8.3
[08:41] <seb128> your error is not known
[08:43] <phlaegel> seb128: is nautilus supposed to be sorting uppercase before lowercase now?
[08:43] <\sh> hmm....what's the best way to debug it? gdb rhythmbox --sync?
[08:43] <slomo> infinity: ok, ignore the last thing i've said... seems like i have to patch configure
[08:47] <infinity> slomo : If you patch configure, make sure to also patch configure.in, so regenrating won't kill your changes.  And touch the files in the right order so they don't get regerated on build...
[08:47] <infinity> slomo : In other words, that kinda a pain in the butt for a single fix. :)
[08:48] <slomo> infinity: sure... i've patched configure now to use /etc/X11/app-defaults without checking anything... ok with you?
[08:48] <Diablo-D3> is the breezy source apt sources on archive.u.c fubar?
[08:49] <Diablo-D3> keeps having md5sum mismatch
[08:49] <infinity> slomo : Have you patches configure.ac too?
[08:49] <slomo> infinity: yes
[08:49] <infinity> slomo : And have you ensured that the build won't try to regenerate configure if the timestamps are goofy?
[08:49] <slomo> infinity: i'm currently trying that... i hope it works...
[08:50] <infinity> slomo : See /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian (the section on "timestamp skews") for hints.
[08:51] <seb128> phlaegel: depending of the locale I gues
[08:51] <seb128> guess
[08:53] <infinity> slomo : A simpler way to go, rather than patching configure (and all the hassles that come with that) sould just be to "sed -i -e 's,@resdir@,/etc/X11' Makefile.in"
[08:53] <slomo> infinity: well the configure patch works ;)
[08:54] <infinity> slomo : But it's much more intrusive to patch configure (and do it right, without introducing a build-dep on autotools)
[08:54] <phlaegel> seb128: hm. en_CA? :-) it never used to, until maybe a few weeks ago.
[08:55] <slomo> infinity: it works without regenerating anything and without autotools in build-depends... but you decide ;) i can also patch the Makefile.in
[08:55] <seb128> phlaegel: the sort has been fixed during 2.11
[08:55] <infinity> slomo : Make sure you have no autotools installed, the "touch configure.ac ; dpkg-buildpackage"
[08:56] <elmo> mjg59: around?
[08:56] <infinity> slomo : Then realise that timestamps can get messed up when unpacking sources, leading to that situation.
[08:56] <mjg59> elmo: Hi
[08:56] <slomo> infinity: the one with configure patch: http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/xawtv_3.94-1ubuntu4.debdiff
[08:56] <seb128> phlaegel: cd http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172690
[08:56] <elmo> mjg59: hey, have you tried latest breezy kernel with your nx6215?
[08:56] <slomo> infinity: imho everything is working correctly there
[08:56] <mjg59> elmo: Yeah
[08:56] <elmo> we're getting /dev/hda1 does not exist on boot
[08:56] <mjg59> Oh. Uh. Weird.
[08:56] <mjg59> Oh, are you on the latest initramfstools?
[08:56] <mjg59> If not, it won't load atiixp
[08:57] <elmo> mjg59: yeah, crack of the cron.daily breezy
[08:57] <mjg59> And explosion
[08:57] <elmo> easy to hack around?
[08:57] <mjg59> Hm. Actually, maybe I forced that myself
[08:57] <mjg59> jbailey: Have you added atiixp to initramfs-tools yet?
[08:57] <jbailey> mjg59: Yes, it's in the copy that you have.
[08:57] <mjg59> elmo: Yeah, I added it to /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[08:58] <mjg59> Or wait for Jeff to upload the crack he's just been feeding me
[09:00] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, we win
[09:00] <jbailey> Yay!
[09:01] <elmo> mjg59: hmm, same erro for us
[09:02] <mjg59> elmo: You regenerated the initramfs?
[09:02] <elmo> well, err no ;)
[09:02] <jbailey> =)
[09:02] <phlaegel> seb128: I'm talking about the first letter of the filenames... like directory B coming before directory a.
[09:02] <elmo> sorry I avoid init*
[09:02] <elmo> how do I do that?
[09:03] <mjg59> elmo: mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r`
[09:03] <jbailey> elmo: mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)
[09:03] <elmo> thanks
[09:03] <jbailey> elmo: If you're doing it for not the running kernel, "mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r) $(uname -r)" will tell it what version of modules to use.
[09:04] <seb128> phlaegel: I've no opinion on the question. What does "ls -l" do?
[09:04] <elmo> christ, I'm confused, how do I do this not from within that kernel, as I obviously can't boot the current initramds?
[09:05] <mjg59> mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-7-amd64-whatever 2.6.12-7-amd64-whatever
[09:05] <elmo> ok
[09:05] <highvoltage> elmo: christ: no such nick or channel
[09:06] <lathiat> he's forsaken us
[09:06] <infinity> slomo : Okay, I just tested to make sure I'm not talking out of my ass.
[09:06] <phlaegel> seb128: nautilus and ls do the same thing now... but nautilus used to be different, mixing upper and lowercase. I was just wondering if it was on purpose, since I liked it the old way :-)
[09:06] <slomo> infinity: otherwise i also have a version with patched Makefile.in flying around... choose one ;)
[09:07] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, can you upload that initramfs-tools at some stage?
[09:07] <jbailey> mjg59: Yup.  I'm just gluing in I think the last bit to make lilo users happy.
[09:07] <infinity> slomo : "apt-get --purge remove autoconf autoconf2.13 ; apt-get swource xawtv ; cd xawtv-*; debian/rules work ; touch work/xawtv*/configure.ac ; debian/rules build" and watch it fail, cause it wants to regen configure.
[09:07] <jbailey> Because I *love* string manipulation in shell.
[09:07] <seb128> phlaegel: that's the bug I pointed. glib has a function for that now which makes the behaviour the same for everything and nautilus uses it
[09:07] <jbailey> =)
[09:07] <infinity> slomo : That's precisely what I was warning against.
[09:07] <mjg59> jbailey: I've uploaded usplash that'll work with it
[09:08] <infinity> slomo : I'll just upload with the patched Makefile.in, but I wanted to make you aware of the configure timestamp issue, cause it bites our buildds a fair amount, and MOTU in general seems to be blissfully unaware of it.
[09:08] <slomo> infinity: ok... so at the same location the one which patches just the Makefile.in
[09:09] <elmo> mjg59/jbailey: thanks, working now
[09:09] <mjg59> elmo: Rock
[09:09] <slomo> infinity: thanks... i thought i would be enough to look at the build and whether one can see something regenerating something else
[09:09] <jbailey> elmo: Cool.
[09:09] <phlaegel> seb128: ah, ok. so it is on purpose. thanks.
[09:09] <mjg59> elmo: If you want X to work, add Option  "XaaNoScreenToScreenCopy" "True" to the device section of xorg.conf
[09:11] <elmo> should an atheros madwifi thing get auto-hotplugged?
[09:11] <elmo> it looks like link-on-boot worked, but it's not being loaded
[09:11] <mjg59> Should do
[09:11] <mjg59> But you'll need an ath0 entry in /etc/network/interfaces
[09:11] <mjg59> Unless it's not being loaded at all, in which case - uhm.
[09:12] <infinity> slomo : Uploaded.  I recommend reading README.Debian from autotools-dev and committing most of it to memory.  A lot of autotools weirdness can mess with builds in rather seemingly nondeterministic ways.
[09:13] <mjg59> Usplash love!
[09:13] <infinity> Usplash hate!
[09:14] <mjg59> Bah
[09:14] <elmo> mjg59: yeah,X seems to work now, thanks
[09:14] <mjg59> Now all I need to do is figure out why it doesn't work on hibernate
[09:14] <infinity> mjg59 : Does usplash repect "splash" in /proc/cmdline yet?
[09:14] <slomo> infinity: thanks... will do later :) now i've to search for some food ;)
[09:14] <elmo> does lspci use an internal or kernel database?
[09:14] <mjg59> infinity: Yes
[09:14] <mjg59> elmo: Internal
[09:14] <elmo> 'cos even in breezy lspci doesn't recognise hardly anything on this machine
[09:14] <infinity> Oh, so I can install ubuntu-desktop finally without it making me want to kill myself.  Yay.
[09:14] <Diablo-D3> heh
[09:14] <Diablo-D3> infinity: yeah it got fixed
[09:15] <elmo> hmm, spoke too soon, X died already, meh
[09:15] <Diablo-D3> rotfl
[09:15] <mjg59> infinity: It also won't insmod vga16fb if you have vga= set
[09:15] <infinity> mjg59 : And I do.
[09:15] <infinity> mjg59 : So I guess I'm doubly insulated. :)
[09:15] <mjg59> infinity: So, there you go
[09:16] <mjg59> elmo: Possibly also Option          "XaaNoSolidFillRect" "True"
[09:17] <infinity> Is there any hope of having it use a non-vga16fb framebuffer if one has been selected (ie: with vga=)?
[09:17] <mjg59> infinity: Not trivially
[09:17] <infinity> Yeah, I assumed as much.
[09:17] <mjg59> Well, that's not strictly true
[09:17] <infinity> Oh well, I'd rather have a pretty console than a splash screen, so I know what my choice currently is.
[09:19] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, time to start integrating init scripts with usplash
[09:21] <mdz> mjg59: I was just thinking about that as I was lying awake last night
[09:21] <mjg59> Once Jeff uploads his new initramfs-tools
[09:22] <dholbach> mjg59: i guess he's just looking up a witty quote of oscar wilde 
[09:22] <jbailey> dholbach: *lol* Nah, it's already chosen. =)
[09:23] <dholbach> jbailey: you rock! :)(
[09:23] <jbailey> dholbach: Choosing the Oscar Wilde quote is what I do while I sit here and panic that I might have just caused hundreds of systems to fail to boot.
[09:23] <jbailey> dholbach: It sucks being a non-smoker sometimes.
[09:24] <mjg59> jbailey: Well, it's me who's left hacking on grub
[09:24] <dholbach> jbailey: i read a nice quote of oscar wilde on cigarettes a couple of days ago
[09:24] <infinity> mjg59  :Hacking on grub is a privilege.  If you tell yourself that over and over again, it still won't be true, but you may go numb.
[09:24] <jbailey> mjg59: True. =)  I wonder if glibc + initramfs makes up for grub.
[09:25] <jbailey> mjg59: Probably not, since at least if I screw up really badly, they can still boot into windows. =)
[09:26] <elmo> I thought broadcom wireless cards were generally atheros
[09:26] <elmo> am I on crack?
[09:26] <\sh> no
[09:26] <\sh> the broadcoms are not working with madwifi
[09:27] <\sh> but ndiswrapper and windows crack works
[09:27] <\sh> just tested it today 
[09:27] <mjg59> elmo: No, Broadcom are evil stuff
[09:27] <\sh> after this test..the nc6120 just burned away...memory burning error
[09:27] <mjg59> No specs, binary driver for Linux-mips
[09:28] <mjg59> \sh: ?
[09:28] <\sh> because my colleague used the wonderfull invention of a portreplicator of hp...
[09:28] <elmo> whine
[09:28] <mjg59> elmo: And HP BIOS-lock their wifi cards
[09:29] <\sh> i burned my nc6000 first, when i used this thingy...and then my boss...and now a new 6120 with different docking station but the same clip2burn system
[09:29] <mjg59> \sh: Wow. I haven't managed to explode anything with the docking stations yet
[09:30] <infinity> mdz : I have a girlfriend who's fluent in Japanese and spends a great deal of time using the Windows Japanese input methods.  Should I have her test drive the stuff mentioned in that -devel thread and see how hard it is to get any of it going?
[09:30] <\sh> mjg59: the nc6000 i have, after this I got a new mainboard, new cpu, new memory...at least everything new but the hd
[09:30] <\sh> mjg59: the hd broke 6 months later
[09:30] <mjg59> Haha
[09:31] <\sh> but the customer support service of hp is good...they came repaired..or shipped replacement
[09:31] <mdz> infinity: absolutely
[09:33] <\sh> mjg59: and now the same thing happend to my colleague..colony 3 installed on this and windows on the other part...when I felt the heat...I said directly: u used the docking station...made a memtest86 and boom memory errors en mass
[09:33] <dholbach> bbl
[09:33] <jbailey> Sweet!  lilo boots.
[09:33] <mjg59> Nngh
[09:33] <michele> hello
[09:33] <michele> wasn't breezy supposed to ship with gcc 3.4?
[09:34] <crimsun> no, gcc 4
[09:34] <jbailey> michele: Nope. https://wiki.ubuntu.com//ToolchainRoadmap
[09:34] <michele> hm, ok... I probably misread it. I thought it was reverted
[09:35] <jbailey> michele: The change from gcc-3.3 to gcc-4.0 was major enough that reverting it would almost be more work.
[09:40] <michele> jbailey: I guess so. I wonder what I've been smoking when I read that...
[10:20] <martinhj> ubuntu did not boot from my LVM disks after the Colony CD 3 install.. File bug?
[10:20] <martinhj> work around is to use initrd instead of initramfs
[10:23] <ryanthiessen> anyone else notice that nvidia-glx is uninstallable at the moment?
[10:23] <jbailey> mjg59: Uploaded.
[10:25] <mjg59> jbailey: Rock
[10:25] <mjg59> Now someone just needs to sort out the lsb stuff
[10:25] <jbailey> mjg59: Do you just need that one line added?
[10:25] <lathiat> jbailey: ping
[10:26] <lathiat> jbailey: do you remembe that issue we had with __u64
[10:26] <jbailey> lathiat: You  make it sound like I've only had one... =)
[10:26] <jbailey> lathiat: What's up?
[10:26] <lathiat> jbailey: haha well i was wondering if you could tell me if this is the same issue ->  http://bugs.archlinux.org/index.php?do=details&id=3106
[10:27] <mjg59> jbailey: One line added to each of the printing functions
[10:27] <jbailey> lathiat: Depending on which ANSI C you want, it could be.  C89 didn't have long long support, C99 does.
[10:27] <lathiat> jbailey: well this was with -std=c99
[10:27] <lathiat> jbailey: that it was failign so
[10:28] <infinity> ryanthiessen : Should be installible if you upgrade to the latest mesa.
[10:28] <jbailey> lathiat: Have you considered using the linux-libc-headers project for arch linux?  There's 2 or 3 distros now collaborating on it (We're one of them).
[10:28] <lathiat> jbailey: oh im not asocaited with them
[10:28] <mdz> pitti: did you make some changes to the seeds to try to free space on the install CD?
[10:28] <jbailey> lathiat: It's silly for each us of to duplicate the work.
[10:28] <lathiat> jbailey: i just reported the bgu because it broke avahi (my project)
[10:28] <jbailey> lathiat: Ah. =)
[10:28] <infinity> ryanthiessen : Oh, no it's not, cause that change got dropped.
[10:28] <lathiat> jbailey: and was hopign to provide them with a little more info
[10:28] <infinity> ryanthiessen : I'll upload a fix.
[10:28] <ryanthiessen> infinity: thanks
[10:28] <pitti_> mdz: not yet, since you said you wanted to look at it; shall I kick all langpacks?
[10:29] <mdz> martinhj: you can add any additional information you have to the existing bug, and add yourself to the CC list
[10:29] <mdz> pitti_: all? :-/
[10:29] <mdz> pitti_: I have looked at it, but the only significant addition I see is hplip, which accounts for about 6MB
[10:29] <pitti_> mdz: if we need 20 MB?
[10:29] <jbailey> lathiat: Yeah.  Basically long long is allowed in C99, and that construct allows for it.
[10:30] <lathiat> jbailey: and theirs doesnt?
[10:30] <lathiat> jbailey: hence the || STDC_VERSION 1999
[10:30] <jbailey> lathiat: Right, that's not in the upstream kernel.
[10:30] <lathiat> jbailey: ah
[10:31] <jbailey> I want to try and get some of those things in, but I suspect I'd need to go through the kernel janitors list.  I'm more hoping to convince other distros that linux-libc-headers is good enough to just use it.
[10:31] <jbailey> Perhaps if we have all of us maintaining it together we can get usable ABI headers.
[10:31] <martinhj> mdz: I havn't seen that bug?
[10:31] <martinhj> which is it?
[10:33] <jbailey> mjg59: Aww, this is pretty.
[10:34] <mdz> martinhj: look through http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=UPSTREAM&bug_status=PENDINGUPLOAD&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=initramfs-tools&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=initramfs-tools&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=initramfs-tools&field0-0-3=status_whiteboa
[10:34] <mdz> rd&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=initramfs-tools
[10:34] <mdz> martinhj: I think I saw such a bug there
[10:34] <mdz> martinhj: or ask jbaily
[10:34] <mdz> jbailey, even
[10:34] <jbailey> martinhj: 'sup?
[10:34] <mjg59> jbailey: ?
[10:34] <lathiat> jbailey: got a url / contact for that i can point them at?
[10:34] <jbailey> mjg59: Seeing text in the white box.
[10:35] <mdz> jbailey: martinhj ubuntu did not boot from my LVM disks after the Colony CD 3 install.. File bug?
[10:35] <mjg59> jbailey: Ah, cool
[10:35] <mdz> why does xchat no longer display <> around nicks?  that's annoying for cut and paste
[10:35] <sivang> mvo: ping, hi
[10:35] <jbailey> mdz, martinhj: Might be fixed by now.
[10:35] <sivang> mvo: what's with the scheme thingy in lpint? (curious) lpi.def or something
[10:35] <jbailey> martinhj: Got a moment to sit with me through testing it?  I cna usually tell quickly if it's a bug I've fixed already or not.
[10:36] <mdz> martinhj: yes, try regenerating your initramfs with initramfs-tools 0.23 and see if that fixes it
[10:36] <_derek_> did xen ever make it into breezy?
[10:36] <martinhj> jbailey: sure
[10:36] <jbailey> mdz: Do you have an old xchat conf file around?  If not, I can send you mine.
[10:36] <martinhj> mdz: never used initramfs
[10:36] <martinhj> will try
[10:36] <lathiat> jbailey: ?
[10:36] <jbailey> martinhj: Do you still have the colony CD handy?
[10:36] <mvo> sivang: hi, I'm just having dinner
[10:36] <mdz> jbailey: no, I don't.  but I don't think I changed it since it did that, either
[10:36] <jbailey> lathiat: I'm googling at the same time, I've just run out of hands. =)
[10:36] <lathiat> jbailey: haha sorry
[10:37] <martinhj> jbailey: yes
[10:37] <jbailey> lathiat: http://ep09.pld-linux.org/~mmazur/linux-libc-headers/
[10:37] <lathiat> jbailey: just thought you missed it ;p
[10:37] <mdz> jbailey: which config file should I be looking at?
[10:37] <jbailey> lathiat: It's all good. =)  Entirely possible. =)
[10:37] <jbailey> martinhj: If you can reboot, and at the prompt type 'rescue'
[10:37] <jbailey> martinhj: It'll step you through setting up your hardware and drop you at a prompt after a little bit.
[10:38] <martinhj> jbailey: only got one computer here, so you have to tell me first:-) (just moved from my parents house)
[10:38] <jbailey> mdz: ~/.xchat2/{colors.conf,pevents.conf}
[10:38] <martinhj> jbailey: or I can talk with you tomorrow and I can use a computer at campus
[10:38] <pitti_> mdz: are there any other overflows?
[10:39] <jbailey> mdz: Somewhere along the way xchat got rearranged to not have them and change all the colours.
[10:39] <jbailey> mdz: I restored my old ones from a backup, I can post for you if you'd like.
[10:39] <mdz> pitti_: amd64 and powerpc looked OK
[10:39] <mdz> jbailey: sure, then I can diff them against mine
[10:39] <sivang> mvo: ah ok, let me know if you can talk more today
[10:40] <jbailey> martinhj: Mmm...  Is this a fresh install that you don't mind blowing away?  If you have easy access to good bandwidth and a cd burner, it might be worth just burning a nightly CD tomorrow.
[10:40] <mvo> sivang: in a couple of minutes, sure
[10:40] <pitti> pitti: ok, threw out most of the langpacks
[10:41] <jbailey> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/colors.conf http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/pevents.conf
[10:41] <martinhj> jbailey: no problem, I got hoary, this breezy install I use now (where I use initrd instead of initramfs) and the fresh install
[10:41] <martinhj> jbailey: where do I get the nightly CDs?
[10:41] <Nafallo> madduck: cdimage.ubuntu.com :-)
[10:42] <martinhj> and when tomorrow is the one I should use ready?
[10:42] <jbailey> martinhj: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[10:42] <jbailey> martinhj: It looks like 9 or 10 hours from now...
[10:42] <jbailey> But I might have the timezone wrong. =)
[10:43] <pitti> elmo: please sync postgresql-common postgresql-7.4 postgresql-8.0
[10:43] <martinhj> yeah, I'm not sure either;-)
[10:43] <jbailey> martinhj: What problem kept you over on initrd for your current breezy install?
[10:44] <martinhj> the same, but I thought maybe it was fixed in colony 3(tried to talk about it once here, but probably the right people wasn't here then)
[10:44] <jbailey> If you're willing we can do the test easily enough from the current breezy system.
[10:45] <jbailey> martinhj: If you're using grub, we can easily switch it to use a temporary initramfs without affecting the known working one.
[10:45] <martinhj> for all new kernel releases which uses initramfs I have had problems
[10:45] <mdz> jbailey: 403
[10:45] <martinhj> I need lilo to boot lvm
[10:45] <jbailey> mdz: fixed.
[10:46] <jbailey> martinhj: 0.23 should fix your problem then.
[10:46] <martinhj>  /boot is in lvm to
[10:46] <mdz> aha
[10:46] <mdz>  event_name=Channel Message
[10:46] <mdz> -event_text=%C18%B%B$4$1%O%C18%O$t$2
[10:46] <mdz> +event_text=%C2<%O$1%C2>%O$t$2%O
[10:46] <jbailey> Mm, I didn't test with /boot on lvm.
[10:46] <martinhj> jbailey: ok, will try it..
[10:46] <jbailey> martinhj: If you're comfortable.
[10:47] <jbailey> martinhj: You can edit your lilo.conf to make a temporary setting that you can boot with.
[10:47] <jbailey> martinhj: Are you willing to try this?
[10:47] <mdz> jbailey: thanks
[10:47] <martinhj> jbailey: I know lilo from before:-)
[10:47] <jbailey> mdz: =)
[10:47] <jbailey> martinhj: Cool.
[10:47] <jbailey> martinhj: So if you do mkinitramfs -o /boot/myinitramfs
[10:48] <jbailey> martinhj: ...  I skipped astep.
[10:48] <jbailey> martinhj: apt-get upgrade and make sure you have the 0.23 of initramfs-tools
[10:50] <martinhj> jbailey: 0.23 isn't in my repository.. (I could try US)
[10:51] <infinity> Patience.  It was just uploaded.
[10:51] <jbailey> infinity: MUST.. HAVE.. LATEST.. CRACK!
[10:51] <jbailey> err
[10:51] <jbailey> =)
[10:52] <jbailey> martinhj: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/initramfs-tools_0.23_all.deb
[10:58] <pitti> g'night
[10:58] <slomo> pitti: gnome-volume-properties has a bug: as default action for scanners it calls yast2 which we don't have ;)
[10:58] <slomo> pitti: oh sorry... gn8 then :)
[10:58] <pitti> slomo: oh?
[11:00] <pitti> slomo: indeed - what would be appropriate? calling yast sounds as if it would be intended to be a configuration program...
[11:00] <slomo> pitti: no idea... do we have something that should be called when a scanner gets plugged in? just noticed this when looking at g-v-p... i don't even have a scanner ;)
[11:00] <pitti> slomo: shall it just call xsane?
[11:01] <pitti> slomo: me neither :-)
[11:01] <pitti> slomo: well, just calling xsane scans for devices, so it should be a reasonable default
[11:01] <slomo> pitti: ok :)
[11:03] <pitti> slomo: fixed and uploaded; thanks for the hint
[11:04] <slomo> pitti: np
[11:04] <pef> bye !
[11:04] <pitti> ok, good night, try 2
[11:08] <siretart> elmo: around? could you please sync mozilla-tabextensions from debian?
[11:08] <siretart> elmo: current firefox has problems with it. I just tested it with current firefox in breezy, works fine
[11:09] <elmo> siretart: pls request syncs by source package name in future
[11:09] <siretart> oh. its 'tabextensions'
[11:09] <siretart> will do. thanks!
[11:09] <elmo> done anyway
[11:11] <lathiat> infinity: could you giveback libgnomemm2.0 and ultrapoint ?
[11:24] <infinity> lathiat : Done.
[11:25] <lathiat> infinity: thanks
[11:31] <lathiat> infinity: ermm
[11:31] <lathiat> infinity: for maxima, it has a given back for i386 but no fail or success log
[11:31] <lathiat> infinity: whats that mean? (its from a few days ago, so i doubt its waiting?)
[11:41] <infinity> lathiat : Note the "wanna-build failed with status 65280"
[11:42] <infinity> lathiat : That means it tried to give it back, but failed miserably.
[11:42] <lathiat> infinity: erm, what causes that? :)
[11:43] <infinity> Lack of network connectivity?  General buggery?  Who knows.
[11:43] <lathiat> oh, ouch
[11:43] <infinity> Given back manually, though.
[11:43] <lathiat> well it could do with being given back again if you can make it work :)
[11:43] <infinity> The connectivity issue was obviously pretty short-lived, or nothing would be building right now at all. :)
[11:44] <lathiat> right
[11:46] <sivang> seb128: can you take a look at the menu data type of gnomemeeting, I keep getting GTK_IS_MENU assrtion failure, although I see it's a GtkWidget like lpi wants
[11:47] <sivang> seb128: I'll implement it manually if they are not comaptible
[11:47] <seb128> sivang: I'll have a look
[11:48] <sivang> seb128: thanks
[11:49] <sivang> seb128: (in my assertion faliure, I used _add_items)