[12:02] <amu> lewion: ?
[12:02] <lewion> amu, srry wrong channel
[12:02] <amu> maybe not at once, maybe hours/days later :D
[12:16] <gdh> hm, here's a question.. since upgrading to breezy, my boot-time mounts in fstab are failing at startup ... e.g. "//eddie/mp3     /mnt/mp3        smbfs   guest,uid=gdh,rw        0       1" .. it's like the network stack isn't initialised yet.. if I do 'sudo mount -a'  they mount fine :/
[12:23] <amu> gdh: could you add a comment to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3910
[12:24] <NigeyUK> heya
[12:25] <NigeyUK> is any1 else here having problems using kopete and the msn plugin?
[12:26] <gdh> amu: eek someone read my mind :)
[12:27] <kkathman> I dont have a prob with msn and kopete..but I dont use it constantly either
[12:28] <NigeyUK> hmm, tried 2 different accounts, and googling seems to suggesta known problem, will amsn run on kubuntu instead of using kopete ?
[12:38] <_alexandros> NigeyUK upgrade your kopete, I had the same problem until I upgrade
[12:38] <NigeyUK> ahh, ill try now
[12:39] <_alexandros> it is nice to have all your accounts in one place :)
[12:39] <NigeyUK> yup :)
[12:39] <NigeyUK> hmmz, removing kopete to install a new version is gona break stuff according to kynaptic
[12:40] <alexandros> nope don't remove it
[12:40] <alexandros> are you using kynaptic?
[12:40] <NigeyUK> only sometimes, prefer to use the terminal though
[12:41] <alexandros> just  do a upgrade packages, then commit changes
[12:41] <NigeyUK> ah oki
[12:41] <NigeyUK> im having such a blonde day today :s
[12:41] <alexandros> lol
[12:42] <NigeyUK> like ive been staring at x-chat for 20mins and still not sussed out changing the font size lol
[12:43] <alexandros> you are using xchat, have you tried konversation?
[12:43] <NigeyUK> yer, was using konversation until bout 30mins ago, always prefered xchat though 
[12:44] <alexandros> true
[12:44] <NigeyUK> ah that worked now
[12:44] <NigeyUK> cheers :D
[12:44] <alexandros> :-)
[12:44] <alexandros> have you got dvd to playback?
[12:45] <NigeyUK> yups
[12:45] <NigeyUK> 2nd thing i do when i install linux, bugger everything else lol
[12:46] <alexandros> lol
[12:46] <alexandros> can you help me I am unable to get it to work
[12:46] <alexandros> I have installed the libdvdcss2
[12:46] <NigeyUK> sure
[12:47] <alexandros> but no joy
[12:47] <alexandros> thank
[12:47] <NigeyUK> i simply followed the ubuntuguide.org section on dvd playback and xine-ui and it worked first time
[12:48] <alexandros> you are using ubuntu?
[12:48] <alexandros> disreguard
[12:49] <NigeyUK> kubuntu but the dvd part is pretty much generic and works on both kubuntu and ubuntu
[12:56] <alakhia> hi ... does anyone know how to enable direct rendering?
[12:56] <NigeyUK> ati or nvidia ?
[12:57] <alakhia> no idea ... i have an ibm thinkpad
[12:57] <alakhia> how do i find out which card i have?
[12:58] <NigeyUK> try lspci
[12:58] <NigeyUK> or check /var/log/Xorg.0.log and itll be in there
[12:58] <alakhia> that tells me: VGA compatible controller: S3 Inc. 86C270-294 Savage/IX-MV
[12:59] <gdh> mm, rawk :)
[12:59] <NigeyUK> Savage 4
[12:59] <NigeyUK> ew
[12:59] <gdh> direct rendering as in OpenGL / 3D ?
[12:59] <alakhia> why? no driver support?
[12:59] <gdh> I doubt that card has any 3D support worth talking about.
[01:00] <alakhia> yup ... i'm using mesa drivers and doing everything in software
[01:00] <alakhia> watching movies is slow!
[01:00] <alakhia> esp full screen
[01:00] <gdh> movies is 2D and the realm of the XVideo extension
[01:00] <gdh> nothing to do with OpenGL...
[01:00] <alakhia> hmmm
[01:00] <gdh> You should at least get proper overlay support with the savage driver
[01:00] <alakhia> so, why is it so slow
[01:01] <gdh> what does 'xvinfo' suggest?
[01:01] <gdh> lots of info ?
[01:01] <gdh> or 'no adapter present' ?
[01:01] <alakhia> tells me "Adaptor #0: "Savage Streams Engine"
[01:02] <gdh> goes on for ages to talk about XV_AUTOPAINT_COLOURKEY and all kinds of 'client settable attribute' ?
[01:02] <gdh>         guid: 59555932-0000-0010-8000-00aa00389b71
[01:02] <gdh>         bits per pixel: 16
[01:02] <gdh> and so on ?
[01:02] <alakhia> gives me 63 lines of output
[01:02] <gdh> yeh xv support is present, then
[01:03] <alakhia> lots of ids with guid, bits, planes, ...
[01:03] <gdh> what CPU is in the notebook?
[01:03] <NigeyUK> hmm dvd being slow..
[01:03] <alakhia> but kaffiene is very slow
[01:03] <NigeyUK> could be dma is not enabled
[01:03] <alakhia> when I use mplayer, it is fast enuf
[01:03] <gdh> and yeh, DMA is the standard response :)
[01:03] <NigeyUK> :p
[01:03] <gdh> try 'hdparm -d 1 /dev/hdc' 
[01:03] <gdh> assuming hdc is your cd rom drive
[01:04] <alakhia> says dma is off
[01:04] <alakhia> and: HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Permission denied
[01:04] <gdh> that's standard (and probably a stupid default to have :)
[01:04] <gdh> yeh 'sudo hdparm...'
[01:04] <gdh> and type YOUR password
[01:04] <alakhia> cool, now on
[01:05] <alakhia> ok, that's it?
[01:05] <gdh> should be
[01:05] <gdh> try to play another DVD
[01:05] <gdh> or the same one :)
[01:05] <gdh> I hope breezy puts DMA mode on by default
[01:06] <alakhia> yeah, much better
[01:06] <gdh> the number of machines whcih would have problems with it must surely be tiny compared with the number of people who think 'Kubuntu is shit slow at playing DVDs' and throw it in the bin
[01:06] <alakhia> thanks guys
[01:06] <gdh> cool :)
[01:07] <alakhia> do i need to turn on dma everytime i log in or reboot?
[01:07] <gdh> every time... but you can use /etc/hdparm.conf :)
[01:07] <gdh> and that will do it at boot time
[01:07] <NigeyUK> do we get a prize now ?
[01:07] <NigeyUK> :D
[01:08] <alakhia> hehehe! Sure!
[01:08] <alakhia> what would you like?
[01:09] <alakhia> i added "/dev/cdrom { dma = on }" to my conf file
[01:11] <NigeyUK> :D
[01:11] <gdh> Shouldbe fine - watch out for 'Setting disc parameters...' next time you reboot - since that'll be hdparm processig that config file
[01:12] <alakhia> sounds neat :)
[01:12] <NigeyUK> im very surprised by the amount of howtos and guides on ubuntu and kubuntu
[01:13] <NigeyUK> seems even more community supported than fedora
[01:13] <gdh> fedora is a pack of RH tossers who can't be bothered learning anything better :)
[01:13] <NigeyUK> yups
[01:13] <gdh> full of half-arsed implementation of apt and other Debian stuff
[01:13] <NigeyUK> ok, java took me bloody ages to instal on here earlier, but its bareable
[01:14] <gdh> Yeh, the sooner the GNU java compiler is usable, the better
[01:14] <gdh> although it would be better still if people used C# and .NET / Mono than Java :)
[01:14] <NigeyUK> definately, was a long dubius process i think some complete newbies may be put off by it
[01:14] <gdh> something that's fully Free and fully supported already
[01:14] <NigeyUK> i like mono
[01:15] <gdh> I like it in concept- just having some pain with it at work :)
[01:15] <gdh> developing in Visual Studio and making it run on Mono - not quite as fluid as I hoped it'd be.
[01:16] <NigeyUK> ouch sounds painful
[01:16] <gdh> you bet - thankfully we have a new guy starting on Tuesday who's done VS, .NET and Mono
[01:16] <gdh> so I'm hoping he'll be able to teach me how it all works
[01:17] <NigeyUK> ahhh, those people are few and far between
[01:19] <gdh> Yep, supposedly 'one of the top 10 .NET coders in the UK' according to our IT manager
[01:19] <gdh> .... yeh.. exactly :)
[01:19] <NigeyUK> :o
[01:19] <NigeyUK> expensive to! lol
[01:19] <gdh> cynic? me? feh :)
[01:19] <NigeyUK> haha
[01:19] <NigeyUK> ok im still not seeing font settings in xchat .. eh?!
[01:20] <gdh> I only use Konversation :)
[01:20] <gdh> Used xchat for a couple of years, and I do remember seeing font settings there...
[01:20] <NigeyUK> i may well revert if theyre gonna keep making xchat so it takes an hour to change the sodding font size!
[01:21] <gdh> If you use KDE you might as well keep to KDE apps to keep the look-and-feel uniform
[01:21] <NigeyUK> guess so
[01:21] <NigeyUK> wont be many apps on here that arent kde apps
[01:21] <NigeyUK> i do however like to have fonts that dont give me eyestrain! lol
[01:30] <alakhia> ok ... one more question: how do i suspend my laptop?
[01:31] <alakhia> doing "apm -s" doesn't work
[01:31] <alakhia> and acpi doesn't have anything similar
[01:54] <alakhia> this is weird: when I changed my shell to tcsh, i couldn't login to kde
[02:20] <Fenix> saludos
[02:21] <Fenix> una pregunta como configuro la resolucion del monitor ya que solo me aparece disponible en 640x400
[02:21] <Fenix> y quisiera colocarlo en 800x600 o en 1024
[02:22] <gdh> hm, #kubuntu-es, por favor :)
[02:23] <gdh> If you can speak English, we can maybe help :)
[02:24] <gdh> Problems with X will affect Ubuntu, too.
[02:25] <Fenix> as I form the resolution of the monitor in kubuntu since single it appears to me in 640x400
[02:25] <gdh> What kind of video card do you have?
[02:26] <gdh> if you don't know, just type 'lspci' in a Konsole ... 
[02:26] <gdh> My guess it's an Intel 865/875.
[02:27] <Fenix> I have an integrated card is one intel 845 gvr has 64 of video and the monitor is a HP of 14 inches
[02:28] <gdh> Would you normally use 800x600 or 1024x768 ?
[02:30] <Fenix> in other operating systems I use of 800x600 1024x768 and but high it is with kubuntu that does not allow me but of 640x400 as I form it
[02:31] <gdh> OK, I had this problem with my Intel 865 at work.. maybe your 845 has the same problem... I fixed it by doing "sudo kedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[02:31] <gdh> and adding this line to the 'Section "Monitor"'
[02:31] <gdh>         HorizSync       30.0 - 80.0
[02:32] <gdh> then restart X (/etc/init.d/kdm restart from teh console)
[02:37] <ikkys> hi folks
[02:37] <ikkys> is gnome or kde better?
[02:38] <gdh> Enlightenment or XFCE are better than either.
[02:38] <ikkys> why?
[02:38] <gdarel> How do I nstall a RPM file?
[02:39] <gdh> ikkys: Honestly, with a channel called *K*ubuntu, what did you expect the standard response to be? :)
[02:39] <pax> ikkys: best way to find out is to try both
[02:40] <pax> gdarel: install alien if you dont have it
[02:40] <ikkys> hmmm, well, guess have to try myself
[02:40] <pax> !alien
[02:40] <ubotu> it has been said that alien is a program to convert RPMs to DEBs. Can give problems. Website: http://www.kitenet.net/programs/alien/
[02:40] <alexandros> use the alien to convert the rpm todeb
[02:41] <pax> ikkys: yes, desktops are a matter of personal choice :c)
[02:43] <pax> ikkys: here's a shot for ya http://ninux.net/files/ubuntu.png
[02:43] <NigeyUK> pax how'd you get the transparent konsole ?
[02:44] <pax> NigeyUK: using konsole?
[02:44] <NigeyUK> yer
[02:44] <pax> settings > configure console > shema
[02:44] <pax> and chose Transparent Konsole
[02:44] <NigeyUK> ohh
[02:45] <ManLord> ----------"application/oclet-stream could not be found"---------- What does this error message mean?? please help, I get it all the time
[02:45] <Rogue_Jedi_X> Anyone know if I can make kmail ask me which smtp server to use when I send email messages? I have to SMTP servers set up
[02:45] <Rogue_Jedi_X> *two
[02:46] <gdh> Rogue_Jedi_X: Click View-> Mail transport when you compose a new mail
[02:46] <pax> Rogue_Jedi_X: chose the appropriate 'Identity' (assuming you set that up already)
[02:46] <gdh> Rogue_Jedi_X: That will let you choose the smtp server :)
[02:47] <Rogue_Jedi_X> Thanks
[02:47] <pax> ManLord: how do you get that error, konqueror?
[02:48] <ManLord> Pax: yes every time i open konqueror or konqueror related things
[02:49] <ManLord> Pax: like Kontact
[02:50] <pax> ManLord: just a file association thingy
[02:50] <ManLord> how to fix??
[02:50] <pax> ManLord: this should fix you up http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/64/2005/06/3/333886
[02:51] <_john> hey, i have a question about GRUB
[02:52] <_john> I installed Slacware on hdc
[02:52] <_john> *slackware
[02:52] <_john> but it isnt appearing in GRUB on bootup
[02:52] <_john> how do i get it to appear?
[02:53] <pax> you should ask in slack channel, but why don't you just edit /boot/grub/menu.lst ;-)
[02:53] <_john> i probably should :D
[02:53] <_john> but where is the slackware channel <_<
[02:54] <_john> do i just do /join slack
[02:54] <_john> ?
[02:54] <pax> ##slackware
[02:55] <ManLord> ?
[02:55] <_john> k
[02:55] <pax> yes ManLord?
[02:55] <pax> I'd appreciate it if you talk to me here in the channel :c)
[02:56] <ManLord> how to write like you do? 
[02:56] <ManLord> here in the channel?
[02:56] <pax> write what mate?
[02:56] <ManLord> it's red when you talk to me, what's the command for that
[02:56] <pax> ManLord: instead of private messages, I prefer to help you here if I can :)
[02:57] <pax> ManLord: if you are sing konversation, it just highlights lines with your nickname (red)
[02:57] <ManLord> aha.. i did belive it was some sort of /whisper command...
[02:57] <Rogue_Jedi_X> Ctrl+K and selecting red works too :)
[02:58] <ManLord> thanks for the help pax
[02:58] <pax> ManLor: not at all <- your nick is wrong so this line not red :)
[03:01] <ManLord> pax: but when i type "/msg pax msg" isn't the message in this channel?
[03:01] <ManLord> or do you get it in another tab?
[03:02] <pax> yes I do.
[03:02] <ManLord> ok
[03:02] <ManLord> i see
[03:06] <Rogue_Jedi_X> Any idea why Konversation was hogging up almost all CPU time after I left it on for a few days? I had to restart it to work normally again
[03:14] <arcanistherogue> hey, ih ave a question about grub
[03:14] <arcanistherogue> how do i tell which hard drive is /dev/hdd?  like (hd0,0) (hd2,0), which one is /dev/hdd?
[03:16] <pax> I'd use <TAB> and let grub list them then chose the right one
[03:20] <arcanistherogue> pax: how do i do that?
[03:27] <ManLord>  My maxtor onetouch external firewire drive doesn't get recognised in ubuntu, only if i select restart. not on a clean boot, there is no sda units popping up when i plug it in
[03:27] <ManLord> help anyone
[03:29] <arcanistherogue> i dunno
[03:29] <arcanistherogue> edit /etc/fstab?
[03:29] <arcanistherogue> i dont know what you would put though
[03:29] <ManLord> i know that part
[03:29] <ManLord> but the problem is that the disk doesn't even get recognized
[03:29] <ManLord> only if i boot, then reboot
[03:30] <gdh> a firewire device seems very exotic to most users :)
[03:30] <gdh> for whom USB is the norm
[03:31] <ManLord> :) i nedd it because of the long cable.. but it's actually an USB2/firewire disc
[03:31] <ManLord> need
[03:31] <gdh> the joys of physical constraints =)
[03:33] <ManLord> i'll soon buy a cheap computer and connect it to that one, and just access it thru wireless.. hate cables... :)
[03:35] <ManLord> and with the coming of the wireless usb hubs i have heard of, it'll soon only be the powercable that's connected.. hehe
[03:41] <ManLord> what happening people?
[03:44] <gdh> sleep and drunkenness, mostly.
[03:45] <ManLord> aha
[03:46] <ManLord> when is the next kunbuntu being released?
[03:46] <gdh> mid october
[03:46] <ManLord> version+
[03:46] <ManLord> ?
[03:48] <gdh> 5.10
[03:48] <gdh> Releases are squarely YY.MM
[03:48] <ManLord> squarely?
[03:48] <gdh> Breezy is 05.10, hoary 05.04 (april 05) ...  warty was 04.10 (october 2004)
[03:49] <ManLord> 4 time a year?
[03:49] <gdh> twice a year :)
[03:49] <ManLord> ok
[03:49] <ManLord> from 4.10 to 5.04 and now just 5.10?
[03:50] <gdh> Yes, the version number is constructed from the year and the month
[03:50] <gdh> nothing to do with 'major reelase' and 'minor release'
[03:51] <ManLord> aha.. hehe 
[03:51] <ManLord> didn't know
[03:57] <cfreeman> I'm running Kubuntu; I'm trying to run mysql-query-browser, but I'm running into glibc dependency problems (2.3.2 vs 2.3.4)
[03:57] <cfreeman> When I try "apt-get upgrade glibc", or "apt-get upgrade libc", it simply doesn't find anything
[03:58] <gdh> libc6
[03:59] <gdh> although I doubt you'll find new versions :)
[03:59] <cfreeman> Question: I believe that I need to upgrade from glibc-2.3.2 to glibc-2.3.4, but apt-get won't easily find 2.3.4. How could I upgrade?
[03:59] <cfreeman> Am I stuck building glibc from source?
[04:01] <gdh> good god don't go there
[04:01] <gdh> rebuild the package you want under your current environment
[04:03] <cfreeman> ok. What's broken btw 2.3.2 and 2.3.4? (too numerous to mention?)
[04:03] <gdh> I don't understand the question
[04:04] <cfreeman> Well, I'm presuming that there's a major compatibility problem between 2.3.2 and 2.3.4. Or am I wrong?
[04:04] <gdh> no, just if you've found a (probably breezy) deb package for mysql-query-browser it'll be expecting a different libc6
[04:05] <gdh> yes http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=mysql-query-browser seems to back this up
[04:06] <gdh> this is a GTK app - you might have better luck on #ubuntu asking how to backport the breezy 1.1.12 version to hoary.
[04:06] <cfreeman> thanks. I get the feeling that I've just found myself in dependency hell. :-) It's a relatively new install. :-)
[04:06] <linuxgeekery> Hey guys! What's the X11 Devel package in apt?
[04:07] <gdh> you could always dist-upgrade to breezy :)
[04:07] <gdh> the Big Freeze has already happened so things are much more stable now
[04:07] <linuxgeekery> anyone?
[04:07] <cfreeman> My experience is mostly RH, so how would I dist-upgrade to breezy? 
[04:08] <gdh> cfreeman: In that case, it's best to wait for breezy release
[04:08] <gdh> (mid october)
[04:08] <gdh> linuxgeekery: xlibs-dev ?
[04:08] <cfreeman> I'll trudge along the compile-from-source route for now. Thanks for you help.
[04:08] <gdh> linuxgeekery: or x-dev ?
[04:09] <gdh> I just did apt-cache search x11 development
[04:09] <linuxgeekery> gdh: it's x-dev
[04:13] <cfreeman> Next question: how hard would it be to install glib2?
[04:16] <gdh> I have no idea what that is
[04:30] <delltony> not sure where to ask this being moto4lin is a linux software where can you find mods for the motorola phone i'm just wanting to change the retarded default ringtone for the bluetooth
[05:37] <nicksirZ> I had to use kdesu kcontrol to unlock admin mode in KDE Control Center, however it isn't working now, it stays locked, can anybody help me?
[05:46] <nicksirZ> sudo kcontrol isn't unlocking Control Center
[05:46] <nicksirZ> please help
[07:41] <_ali> hi what is the locate where all my downloaded packages are stored ? 
[07:42] <_ali> i mean when i did apt-get install kubuntu-desktop ? where are my files stored now ? 
[07:58] <skyred> what is linux programming?
[07:59] <arcanistherogue> that can be interpereted in many ways
[07:59] <arcanistherogue> programming on linx?
[07:59] <arcanistherogue> *linux?
[07:59] <arcanistherogue> or maybe programming the linux kernel or making your own distro?
[08:37] <leus> Hi, How can I get midnight commander?
[08:47] <kismet> can someone point me in the right direction, i'm trying to get my second monitor working on KDM here
[08:47] <ctw> leus: apt-cache search midnight
[08:48] <ctw> sudo apt-get install mc
[08:48] <ctw> kismet: you need to edit your xorg.conf
[08:48] <ctw> details depend on your graphics card
[08:48] <kismet> i've been trying, but no luck so far
[08:49] <ctw> when I set up mine, I had some extensive googling to do
[08:49] <ctw> what graphics card to you have?
[08:49] <kismet> nvidia 5900 FX
[08:51] <ctw> here is my xorg.conf
[08:51] <ctw> http://rafb.net/paste/results/tjcESw54.nln.html
[08:51] <ctw> ymmv
[08:52] <ctw> its for the nvidia GeForce MX4000
[08:52] <ctw> if this doesn't help, try googling for some of the xorg.conf entries
[08:52] <ctw> good luck
[08:53] <kismet> i've seen some folks mention XF86Config, but i haven't got that...
[08:56] <ctw> yeah, XF86Config is for the XFree x-server
[08:56] <ctw> you've got the x.org x-server
[08:56] <ctw> xf86config is to xfree what xorg.conf is to x.org
[08:57] <ctw> the syntax is very similar
[08:57] <ctw> xfree is older, but seems to be dying out 
[08:57] <ctw> almost all linux distributions have switched to x.org
[08:58] <Johnny-> What is the best laptop for Kubuntu?
[08:58] <Johnny-> Is Apple any good? :/
[08:59] <ctw> you might be able to use the same entry that somebody else used in xf86config, but just tell people that you have x.org and not xfree
[08:59] <ctw> I've installed ubuntu on an iBook once -- worked great!
[08:59] <ctw> I just couldn't get the modem to work right
[09:00] <ctw> it was recognized and dialed, but could not establish a connection
[09:00] <Johnny-> Hmmm...does Kubuntu support wlan?
[09:00] <ctw> it worked fine under OSX
[09:00] <ctw> if you get an older (used) Apple it will work, but the new aiport xtreme cards don't work afaik
[09:00] <Johnny-> And what wlan card brand is linux supported ?
[09:01] <ctw> hp has some laptops that supposedly work very well with ubuntu (they have a special version of ubuntu / special packages for these laptops) ... do a search on ubuntuforums.org
[09:02] <ctw> there is plenty of info on that
[09:02] <ctw> you can always go to a store with a live-cd and try it out ...
[09:02] <ctw> I've got to go ... good luck!
[09:03] <Johnny-> Okey :)
[09:05] <kismet> so then do i reboot, or...?
[09:14] <hettar> Johnny-: The intel ipw2200 wireless cards work well
[09:14] <hettar> Just don't get a broadcom wireless card.
[09:14] <lammah> hello
[09:17] <Johnny-> Ok :D
[09:53] <spiral> hi
[10:01] <bjv> i apt-got an nfs deamon, and set up the shared file systems with the gui..
[10:01] <bjv> something is wrong though, how do i check the configurations of the deamon?
[10:24] <bjv> well, finding the config was easy enough. :p
[10:24] <bjv> it looks:
[10:24] <bjv> *(rw,async,all_squash)/ *(async)
[10:24] <bjv> /home/minister/lfs/sources/ *(rw,async,all_squash)
[10:25] <bjv> but when i try to mount internalip:/home/blahblah/sources i get a 'permission denied'
[10:25] <bjv> what else must be set up?
[10:42] <[czech] mila> hello
[10:52] <fatejudger> somehow the windows boot option in GRUB disappeared
[10:52] <fatejudger> does anyone know much about GRUB?
[12:04] <LaoV> hi guys..i'm getting: "Kernel panic - not syncing : VFS : Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)"
[12:04] <LaoV> can anyone pls help
[12:05] <Chousuke> LaoV: Did you compile your own kernel?
[12:06] <LaoV> no i did not
[12:06] <Chousuke> 'k.
[12:07] <Chousuke> that message usually means your kernel doesn't support the filesystem
[12:07] <Chousuke> or that it's corrupted
[12:07] <LaoV> all i did was an update from synaptic
[12:07] <Chousuke> in the former case it's usually because a newbie configured his own kernel and forgot to inlcude support for the filesystem, or that the initrd file was not loaded.
[12:08] <Chousuke> do you use grub or lilo?
[12:08] <LaoV> grub
[12:09] <Chousuke> synaptic should configure grub automatically :/
[12:09] <Chousuke> You might try running sudo update-grub 
[12:10] <LaoV> would that command work if i'm not in bash?
[12:11] <Chousuke> any shell will do
[12:12] <LaoV> i can't get past the grub though
[12:13] <Chousuke> oh, bah
[12:13] <Chousuke> doesn't the grub menu show the old kernel?
[12:13] <Chousuke> press esc or so
[12:14] <Chousuke> ... mething when grub loads to bring up the menu if it doesn't show up by default
[12:14] <LaoV> it shows only one kernel, one with recovery mode and one memtest
[12:15] <Chousuke> ehm
[12:15] <Chousuke> can't remember grub
[12:16] <LaoV> any suggestions?
[12:17] <Chousuke> well, you could look at the boot menu options and see what parameters they have
[12:17] <Chousuke> do they define initrd etc.
[12:17] <fatejudger> there is a recovery mode
[12:17] <Chousuke> it may not work either.
[12:17] <Chousuke> and do they define the boot partition correctly
[12:18] <LaoV> root (hd0,0)
[12:18] <Chousuke> ok, so that hda1
[12:18] <Chousuke> any mention of initrd?
[12:18] <LaoV> yup..
[12:18] <Chousuke> well?
[12:18] <LaoV> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.10-5-386
[12:18] <Chousuke> looks legit.
[12:19] <LaoV> kernel /boot/vmlinux-2.6.10-5-386
[12:19] <Chousuke> wait, hmm...
[12:19] <LaoV> root=/dev/hdc1 ro quiet splash
[12:19] <sorush20> I keep getting spam how can I stop IRC spam
[12:19] <Chousuke> grub had something about roots
[12:19] <fatejudger> does anyone else have a problem with flash having no sound and being really unstable in firefox?
[12:20] <Chousuke> fatejudger: disable esd
[12:20] <fatejudger> esd?
[12:20] <sorush20> fatejudger: I have the same problem... 
[12:20] <Chousuke> never mind, this is #kubuntu  :P
[12:20] <fatejudger> ?
[12:20] <Chousuke> disable artsd :P
[12:20] <fatejudger> what is artsd?
[12:20] <Chousuke> a sound daemon
[12:21] <Chousuke> allows sound in many simultaneous programs.
[12:21] <fatejudger> won't that affect sound in other programs?
[12:21] <Chousuke> yes.
[12:21] <Chousuke> :P
[12:21] <Chousuke> the firefox flash plugin completely sucks.
[12:22] <Chousuke> it's non-free too, so you can only blame macromedia.
[12:22] <sorush20> Chousuke: what flash player do you use
[12:22] <fatejudger> yeah
[12:22] <fatejudger> well
[12:22] <LaoV> chousuke: still here :-)
[12:22] <Chousuke> sorush20: I'm not running #ubuntu
[12:22] <fatejudger> now flash is silent
[12:22] <Chousuke> -#
[12:22] <Chousuke> :P
[12:22] <fatejudger> and is still crashing
[12:22] <fatejudger> this is fucked up
[12:23] <sorush20> Chousuke: what are you running.. 
[12:23] <Chousuke> LaoV: is /dev/hdc1 your root? :P
[12:23] <fatejudger> I can't get a single plugin to work correctly in firefox
[12:23] <Chousuke> sorush20: OS X 
[12:23] <fatejudger> I can't play media
[12:23] <fatejudger> like
[12:23] <fatejudger> Real Video
[12:23] <fatejudger> or Windows Media
[12:23] <LaoV> chousuke: yes...i have not changed anything manually
[12:23] <fatejudger> nothing
[12:23] <Chousuke> LaoV: Weird. :/
[12:23] <LaoV> i've tried it with hda too
[12:24] <Chousuke> LaoV: is hda1 your /boot partition? what is your boot partition?
[12:25] <LaoV> i don't have a seperate /boot only /=hdc1, /usr=hdc3 and /home=hdc4
[12:25] <Chousuke> so uh.
[12:25] <Chousuke> why do you have root(hd0,0)? :<
[12:25] <fatejudger> hasn't anybody figured out the whole plugin thing for firefox yet?
[12:25] <sorush20> fatejudger: you need to install xine mozilla plugin.. 
[12:26] <fatejudger> ?
[12:26] <Chousuke> what's /dev/hda1?
[12:26] <fatejudger> I hope that's a package
[12:26] <sorush20> fatejudger: there is a mplayer plugin for mozilla but it crashes to my experience... just search for it on the xine webiste.. and on the synaptic packages.. 
[12:26] <LaoV> isn't hdc1 = hd0,0 in grub
[12:27] <fatejudger> kaffeine-mozilla package?
[12:27] <sorush20> http://xinehq.de/index.php/home
[12:27] <sorush20> fatejudger: kaffeine-mozilla yes.. that uses zine.. 
[12:28] <Chousuke> LaoV: no
[12:28] <Chousuke> it's hda1
[12:28] <fatejudger> nice
[12:28] <fatejudger> that package worked
[12:28] <Chousuke> hdc1 would be hd(2,0)
[12:28] <fatejudger> thanks
[12:28] <fatejudger> it's weird though
[12:28] <fatejudger> it just offloads everything to the external program
[12:28] <Chousuke> (starts from zero, remember)
[12:28] <nikkia> Chousuke: not, necessarily
[12:28] <Chousuke> and (hd2,0) even
[12:28] <sorush20> fatejudger: you can type my name when you want to talk to me by typing the first few letters of my name and then pressing the tab button.. that will bring up my name like sorush20: and you can wirte to me .. 
[12:29] <fatejudger> wow
[12:29] <fatejudger> that's pretty cool
[12:29] <Chousuke> nikkia: well, if you bios settings are correct :P
[12:29] <sorush20> fatejudger: did it work.. 
[12:29] <fatejudger> I always thought I had to type it in manually
[12:29] <fatejudger> sorush20:  yeah, it did
[12:29] <fatejudger> sorush20: thanks
[12:29] <nikkia> Chousuke: the hd? ordering in grub on a running system, may not match the ordering at boot time
[12:29] <fatejudger> sorush20: I still can't figure out that flash thing
[12:29] <fatejudger> sorush20: how are you playing flash in Linux?
[12:29] <nikkia> Chousuke: for example, at run time, my boot drive (/dev/sda1) shows up as hd3,0, at boot time, its hd0,0
[12:29] <nikkia> Chousuke: it has everything to do with the boot sequence of multiple controllers
[12:30] <sorush20> fatejudger: I'm trying to work it out my self.. Im sure it will come down to just a single string in a config file about the mozilla flash player.. 
[12:30] <Chousuke> nikkia: Ok. Well, grub does suck :P
[12:30] <nikkia> my BIOS initialises boot in the sequence SATA, PATA, PATA_promise,  linux initialises them in PATA, PATA_promise, SATA
[12:30] <fatejudger> sorush20: well I've tried google it
[12:30] <fatejudger> sorush20: I can't seem to find anything helpful
[12:30] <nikkia> Chousuke: i had to end up creating 'this_is_sda1' and 'this_is_hde1' files in the roots so i could distinguish them in grub
[12:31] <nikkia> since both hde and sda have 3 partitions, root, swap, home
[12:31] <sorush20> fatejudger: I know this can be annoying when you are viewing a flash site that has sound... 
[12:31] <fatejudger> sorush20: well a few of them crash on me
[12:31] <fatejudger> sorush20: including homestarrunner
[12:31] <Chousuke> nikkia: freaky
[12:32] <nikkia> Chousuke: it took me close to 3 hours to get grub working after installing the SATA drive (because it was trying to load stage1.5 from the wrong partition)
[12:32] <fatejudger> sorush20: are you playing flash in konq or something?
[12:32] <Chousuke> Linux is still a bit difficult to fix if you get trouble
[12:32] <nikkia> Chousuke: in the end, i had to use a grub boot CD
[12:33] <Chousuke> nikkia: right.
[12:33] <nikkia> its probably a good idea for everyone to make a grub boot CD :)
[12:33] <sorush20> fatejudger: no just mozilla.. 
[12:33] <nikkia> it can get you out of some nasty situations
[12:34] <fatejudger> sorush20: you mean mozilla doesn't have this problem, but firefox does?
[12:34] <sorush20> fatejudger: no I meant firefox.. and yes I have the problem.. too.. 
[12:34] <Chousuke> Ubuntu is IMHO the best desktop linux distro there is, but I think a couple more releases are needed.
[12:34] <fatejudger> sorush20: I get that you have the problem, but how exactly do you have a workaround
[12:35] <nikkia> Chousuke: its not bad, but i'm not using it on my desktop :)
[12:35] <fatejudger> sorush20: and is this only a problem in kubuntu?
[12:35] <Chousuke> nikkia: :)
[12:35] <Chousuke> nikkia: Me neither. I used to, but then my PC broke and I bought a used powerbook
[12:35] <sorush20> fatejudger: you mean viewing the flash sites is not a problem.. but I still haven't been able to hear sound form the sites.. 
[12:36] <buz> sound it seems to work for me with flash
[12:36] <buz> sometimes id prefer it wouldnt
[12:36] <nikkia> Chousuke: i switched to LFS because i needed a) cutting edge Gutenprint, b) jack integration at a far lower level than [k] ubuntu's builds allow, c) realtime-lsm  (for jackd)
[12:36] <nikkia> the only distro that comes close to satisfying those requirements, is linspire, and 'no thanks' :)
[12:37] <Chousuke> nikkia: hah :D
[12:37] <nikkia> (well, ok, i could use a debian base with demudi, perhaps, but that doesn't satisfy gutenprint)
[12:37] <Chousuke> nikkia: you're a sound pro or something?
[12:37] <nikkia> Chousuke: not a pro, but i do music stuff, amateur-ly, yes
[12:38] <Chousuke> what about DeMuDi?
[12:39] <nikkia> Chousuke: it would satisfy some of the issues, but still mean the packages wouldn't be built with jack support, and mixing kubuntu with a debian kernel is probably a nightmare waiting to happen
[12:39] <nikkia> Chousuke: and it wouldn't satisfy the gutenprint requirement
[12:39] <Chousuke> I see.
[12:40] <nikkia> Chousuke: i'm not sure how much of stuff like kdelibs DeMuDi provides, either
[12:40] <Chousuke> LFS is nice like that.
[12:40] <Chousuke> complete control.
[12:40] <fatejudger> yeah
[12:40] <nikkia> it might be that it'd satisfy getting jack running, but not necessarily mean i had KDE using jack optimally
[12:40] <fatejudger> more like complete waste of time
[12:40] <Chousuke> fatejudger: not for some people
[12:40] <fatejudger> maybe if I was jobless and had oodles of time
[12:40] <Chousuke> fatejudger: like nikkia
[12:40] <fatejudger> I barely have enough time to fix these stupid issues with firefox
[12:40] <fatejudger> where macromedia doesn't find linux important
[12:41] <fatejudger> and gives out crap plugins
[12:41] <nikkia> fatejudger: it took me about 4 hours to get a base LFS installed, another 2 on a seperate day to get KDE working, beyond that I could just set off stuff compiling while I was doing other stuff
[12:41] <nikkia> and getting the base working was a bit multitasked, because i got that running in vmware, then transferred the disk contents over
[12:42] <Chousuke> Do you know what I would like?
[12:42] <fatejudger> sounds you know what you're doing
[12:42] <fatejudger> unlike me
[12:42] <fatejudger> you probably just ignore problems
[12:42] <fatejudger> that bother the hell out of me
[12:42] <fatejudger> like
[12:43] <fatejudger> no sound in flash
[12:43] <Chousuke> That someone took the Linux kernel, GNU tools, a window manager and GNUStep, made it feature complete and good-looking and created a distro based on that 
[12:43] <nikkia> fatejudger: granted, i've been using linux for 13 years, and in the early days, 'build it yourself' was pretty much the only way, so LFS isn't what i'd call daunting to me
[12:43] <nikkia> Chousuke: they did, its called gnustep
[12:43] <Chousuke> no Gnome, no KDE, no alternate window managers. just a tightly integrated GNUStep/Linux environment.
[12:44] <Chousuke> nikkia: It's just not complete :(
[12:44] <nikkia> Chousuke: i have the gnustep livecd here somewhere on my drive
[12:44] <nikkia> Chousuke: the deal breaker in your wishlist tho, is 'made it .... good-looking'
[12:44] <nikkia> that's not something that can be applied to GNUstep in any sense atm :)
[12:45] <Chousuke> well, someone has made patches and a very nice looking theme.
[12:45] <nikkia> really? about time! :)
[12:45] <Chousuke> but you need to recompile it to change the theme :P
[12:45] <nikkia> IMO, GNUstep looks uglier than the original NeXTstep, and thats saying something
[12:45] <Chousuke> nikkia: it has the potential of looking very good.
[12:46] <nikkia> Chousuke: of course it does, OS X is a very nice looking version of NeXTstep :)
[12:46] <Chousuke> yes. :)
[12:46] <nikkia> Chousuke: but 'potential' doesn't make it look nice *now* :)
[12:46] <Chousuke> I'd like if they took out X from linux and replaced it with something better for GNUstep.
[12:46] <Chousuke> like Xgl :P
[12:46] <fatejudger> why are you guys complaining about distros when you can get Kubuntu?
[12:46] <nikkia> i thoguht Xgl was dead
[12:47] <fatejudger> it's probably the best compromise I've come across so far
[12:47] <Chousuke> It kind of is :/
[12:47] <fatejudger> almost as fast as slackware
[12:47] <fatejudger> easy to use like suse
[12:47] <Chousuke> but someone should revive it(TM)
[12:47] <fatejudger> debian package system
[12:47] <fatejudger> I mean
[12:47] <Chousuke> fatejudger: but it has KDE :/
[12:47] <fatejudger> that's as good as it gets
[12:47] <Chousuke> KDE doesn't work for me.
[12:47] <fatejudger> KDE is awesome
[12:47] <fatejudger> why?
[12:47] <Chousuke> well, it lacks a feature.
[12:47] <fatejudger> I use Linux BECAUSE of KDE
[12:47] <fatejudger> what feature is that?
[12:47] <Chousuke> input modules
[12:47] <fatejudger> ?
[12:47] <nikkia> fatejudger: the problem with [k] ubuntu is the same problem as curses all debian based distros - hideously out of date packages in many cases :/
[12:47] <Chousuke> they will be in KDE4 though
[12:48] <Chousuke> so maybe I'll try it when KDE4 is released.
[12:48] <fatejudger> Gentoo then
[12:48] <fatejudger> you can use that one program
[12:48] <fatejudger> what do they call it?
[12:48] <Chousuke> input modules are part of QT
[12:48] <nikkia> fatejudger: if you're going to suggest 'checkinstall' then that only works on simple packages
[12:48] <Chousuke> the library KDE is based on.
[12:48] <fatejudger> no
[12:48] <fatejudger> I use checkinstall
[12:48] <fatejudger> that's not just for Gentoo
[12:49] <Chousuke> nikkia: Ubuntu does not have out-of-date packages.
[12:49] <Chousuke> it just doesn't have the bleeding edge.
[12:49] <nikkia> Chousuke: oh no? check out sqlite3 or kvirc
[12:49] <fatejudger> Kubuntu and Ubuntu are identical
[12:50] <nikkia> Chousuke: both are OVER A YEAR OLD
[12:50] <fatejudger> omg
[12:50] <fatejudger> those are stupid packages though
[12:50] <Chousuke> nikkia: duh.
[12:50] <fatejudger> and you seem to be adept at compiling stuff
[12:50] <fatejudger> so why not
[12:50] <fatejudger> compile stuff
[12:50] <fatejudger> and use checkinstall
[12:50] <fatejudger> and if checkinstall doesn't work
[12:50] <Chousuke> ubuntu 5.4 is half a year old. :P
[12:50] <fatejudger> which is the case for some things
[12:50] <nikkia> fatejudger: try replacing gimpprint with gutenprint
[12:51] <fatejudger> nikkia: try expanding your sources.list to include universe
[12:51] <nikkia> the only way you can do it, is to break the package system
[12:51] <Chousuke> nikkia: well, if you need bleeding edge then ubuntu is not for you. 
[12:51] <Chousuke> nikkia: but 90% of people do not need bleeding edge
[12:51] <fatejudger> more than that
[12:51] <fatejudger> I mean
[12:51] <nikkia> because gimpprint is a core package that kubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop depend on
[12:51] <fatejudger> why do you need stuff that new?
[12:51] <fatejudger> why is it THAT inportant?
[12:51] <fatejudger> *important
[12:51] <nikkia> fatejudger: because gimpprint doesn't support my printer?
[12:51] <Chousuke> nikkia: debianise gutenprint and make it provide gimpprint :)
[12:52] <Chousuke> entirely possible.
[12:52] <nikkia> Chousuke: yeah, thats the only way you could do it
[12:52] <fatejudger> oh and the Gentoo thing
[12:52] <fatejudger> is called "Emerge"
[12:52] <nikkia> Chousuke: but debianising something isn't a quick job
[12:52] <Chousuke> nikkia: it's not that difficult either.
[12:52] <Chousuke> depends on the package of course.
[12:53] <fatejudger> checkinstall makes things easy
[12:53] <nikkia> Chousuke: it can be, if you're talking about something with split binary/lib/dev/doc packages
[12:53] <fatejudger> most packages work with it
[12:53] <Chousuke> nikkia: perhaps.
[12:53] <fatejudger> what the hell do you need all of this stuff for nikkia?
[12:53] <fatejudger> I mean really
[12:53] <fatejudger> what do you do
[12:53] <fatejudger> that is so important
[12:53] <fatejudger> that it requires stuff so new
[12:53] <Chousuke> fatejudger: Don't use that argument now.
[12:53] <nikkia> fatejudger: as i said, gimpprint doesn't support my printer
[12:53] <fatejudger> that you have to take hours out of your day
[12:53] <Chousuke> nikkia obviously has special needs :)
[12:54] <fatejudger> yeah
[12:54] <fatejudger> apparently
[12:54] <fatejudger> gimpprint
[12:54] <fatejudger> I don't even know what that is
[12:54] <Chousuke> it's drivers for printers
[12:54] <nikkia> fatejudger: then you're not in a very good position to tell  me wtf to do, are you ?
[12:54] <fatejudger> I thought that CUPS handled that stuff
[12:54] <Chousuke> CUPS needs the drivers.
[12:54] <jatc> how can i configure a lcd in kubuntu?
[12:54] <Chousuke> :P
[12:54] <fatejudger> hmm
[12:54] <fatejudger> well then get windows
[12:54] <fatejudger> lol
[12:55] <nikkia> fatejudger: CUPS only supports a handful of dot-matrix printers natively, it relies on back-end drivers, which gimpprint (and other packages) provide
[12:55] <fatejudger> well
[12:55] <fatejudger> my HP 932c works well with it
[12:55] <fatejudger> and I can share it over my network
[12:55] <fatejudger> so I'm happy
[12:55] <nikkia> fatejudger: you're probably using gimpprint
[12:55] <fatejudger> I don't use funny printers
[12:55] <fatejudger> that need bleeding edge drivers
[12:55] <Chousuke> Everyone is not you :)
[12:55] <fatejudger> I do use alsa
[12:56] <fatejudger> which kind of sucks
[12:56] <fatejudger> I had to do some upgrading
[12:56] <fatejudger> compiling
[12:56] <fatejudger> which Kubuntu didn't really like
[12:56] <fatejudger> I think I fixed the sound issue in firefox
[12:56] <fatejudger> but I need to restart to make sure
[12:57] <fatejudger> since the sound got fucked up when I killed that process
[12:57] <fatejudger> the artsd thing
[12:57] <Chousuke> I just wish every software would just work(TM)
[12:59] <Chousuke> OS X kind of does; though it did crash once for some unknown reason. :| And it's not always as flexible as I would like it to be.
[12:59] <Chousuke> But it's good.
[01:00] <fatejudger> so my video card wasn't supported by Kubuntu
[01:00] <fatejudger> so I downloaded this driver from NVidia
[01:00] <nikkia> Chousuke: it'll never happen when you have x,000 packages provided by different groups all trying to co-exist happily, there will always be some interoperability issues
[01:00] <fatejudger> and now it shows their stupid logo
[01:00] <fatejudger> every time I boot up
[01:00] <fatejudger> what the hell is up with that?
[01:00] <nikkia> fatejudger: read the nvidia readme, it tells you how to turn it off
[01:00] <Chousuke> nikkia: yeah .(
[01:00] <fatejudger> really?
[01:01] <Chousuke> But let us not forget that eye candy makes it all good 
[01:01] <fatejudger> nikkia: well that doesn't really help me now
[01:01] <Chousuke> anyway, now I'm off. 
[01:01] <fatejudger> nikkia: I don't remember the directory
[01:01] <fatejudger> nikkia: well all of the docs are
[01:01] <fatejudger> *where
[01:02] <fatejudger> holy crap I'm tired
[01:02] <nikkia> fatejudger: you can read it on their website
[01:02] <fatejudger> I found it
[01:02] <fatejudger> slocate
[01:03] <Millox> fatejudger: I actually think that logo is good
[01:03] <NigeyUK> you can turn that logo off btw
[01:03] <Millox> my experience is that showing whether the nvidia driver is loaded or some other is real good
[01:03] <fatejudger> yeah, I know
[01:03] <fatejudger> why?
[01:04] <NigeyUK> cause it tells you if the drivers installed properly :P
[01:04] <fatejudger> Option "NoLogo" "boolean"
[01:04] <fatejudger> yeah well
[01:04] <Millox> I've had problems with it that makes everything break, or x to use another driver... which defineately isn't ood
[01:04] <fatejudger> my screensaver tells me that
[01:04] <fatejudger> it lags the fuck out if they aren't
[01:04] <NigeyUK> heh yer, 2fps OpenGL screensavers
[01:04] <Millox> hehe
[01:05] <nikkia> fatejudger: please watch your language, this is a family-friendly channel
[01:05] <Millox> I would like to know if the driver isn't loaded properly before the screensaver kicks in
[01:05] <NigeyUK> same here, i dont see a problem with the logo, its not intrusive and only shows for a few seconds :S
[01:07] <dv_> hi
[01:07] <fatejudger> nikkia: right... because all of my little cousins are linux gurus
[01:07] <dv_> I am using the kubuntu desktop on a laptop, and theres the "LCD Off" "LCD On" message popping up frequently
[01:07] <nikkia> fatejudger: they are the channel rules, not mine
[01:07] <dv_> and I cant find out how to disable it
[01:08] <fatejudger> nikkia: yeah, I figured that much
[01:08] <fatejudger> nikkia: probably some bot that will kick me after a certain number of words
[01:08] <nikkia> fatejudger: no, it takes an op to enforce the rules, but you get warned first, like you just did :P
[01:09] <dv_> anyone with an idea?
[01:09] <NigeyUK> dv_ how do you mean lcd on / off ?
[01:12] <fatejudger> so about that flash sound thing
[01:12] <fatejudger> there was a topic about it
[01:12] <fatejudger> on linuxquestions.org
[01:12] <fatejudger> someone said to disable DSP
[01:12] <fatejudger> FIREFOX_DSP="none"
[01:12] <dv_> NigeyUK, "display changed: lcd off" for example
[01:12] <fatejudger> by creating a file called
[01:12] <fatejudger> .firefoxrc
[01:13] <fatejudger> in the home directory
[01:13] <fatejudger> but that doesn't seem to work
[01:13] <dv_> the forums say something about kmilo, but I cant edit the config file
[01:13] <dv_> besides, I wonder if disabling kmilo is harmful
[01:13] <NigeyUK> hm il take a look, no used lcd though so prolly better if you ask some1 who has used it
[01:14] <thoreauputic> !seen apokryphos
[01:14] <ubotu> apokryphos <n=dw@host-87-74-35-180.bulldogdsl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #kubuntu, 1d 13h 39m 7s ago, saying: 'ooo family here, be back in a bit. '.
[01:15] <thoreauputic> ah... family
[01:16] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i dunno, he said something about going on holiday, but i'd have imagined he'd have said something first, but you never know
[01:17] <thoreauputic> nikkia: not to worry :)
[01:17] <thoreauputic> nikkia: how dare he have a life ? *g*
[01:18] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i don't think its so much him having a life, as his parents forcing one upon him :P
[01:18] <thoreauputic> hahah !
[01:18] <thoreauputic> no doubt ...
[01:19] <thoreauputic> nikkia: do you have one of these skype thingies?
[01:19] <nikkia> nope, sorry
[01:20] <fatejudger> omg
[01:20] <fatejudger> I just figured out how to fix the flash thing
[01:20] <fatejudger> this is the weirdest fix too
[01:20] <fatejudger> artsdsp /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox
[01:20] <fatejudger> that's how
[01:20] <thoreauputic> OK - I'm just playing with it: new toy syndrome...
[01:20] <fatejudger> you start firefox with that command
[01:20] <fatejudger> and it works
[01:20] <thoreauputic> fatejudger: that makes sense actually
[01:21] <fatejudger> right
[01:21] <fatejudger> the only problem is
[01:21] <fatejudger> the sound is off
[01:22] <fatejudger> at least on homestarrunner.com
[01:22] <fatejudger> does this mean that I should start firefox with that command from now on?
[01:22] <fatejudger> or is there a different way to do it?
[01:22] <thoreauputic> fatejudger: if it works, why not edit the menu/ launcher and add it ?
[01:24] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: I could
[01:25] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: I just wanted there to be some internal way to fix it
[01:25] <fatejudger> without other programs involved
[01:26] <ailleantsian> is there any way to force boot up of my sound ?
[01:26] <thoreauputic> *shrug* it's the nix way really, isn't it? connecting one tool to another to achieve your ends...
[01:26] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: I guess so
[01:26] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: seems kind of stupid though
[01:27] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: a bunch of people are talking about some other fix though
[01:27] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: disabling something called DSP in Firefox
[01:27] <fatejudger> FIREFOX_DSP="none"
[01:27] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: but that doesn't work for me at least
[01:28] <thoreauputic> fatejudger: is  ps aux | grep foo stupid ? I don't see the need to dig when you have a working solution, personally
[01:28] <nikkia> thoreauputic: pidof foo   is even better :)
[01:29] <thoreauputic> nikkia: true, assuming you only want the pid :)
[01:29] <nikkia> thoreauputic: true
[01:29] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: it isn't completely working
[01:30] <fatejudger> thoreauputic: like I said before, the sound isn't in sync
[01:30] <nikkia> fatejudger: it won't be, it'll be offset by whatever latency your arts config introduces
[01:30] <nikkia> which by default is, iirc, 232mS
[01:31] <fatejudger> but it is
[01:31] <fatejudger> I just watched
[01:31] <fatejudger> a cartoon
[01:31] <fatejudger> homestarrunner.com
[01:31] <fatejudger> and it isn't in sync
[01:31] <thoreauputic> nikkia: heheh - do you just carry those kinds of numbers around in your head ?
[01:31] <fatejudger> yeah seriously
[01:31] <nikkia> thoreauputic: yes
[01:31] <nikkia> thoreauputic: you'd be surprised how often the 'audio isn't in sync' issue comes up here, actually
[01:31] <fatejudger> nikkia: well it isn't
[01:32] <thoreauputic> nikkia: you're off the scale on geek points ;)
[01:32] <fatejudger> nikkia: try running it yourself
[01:32] <nikkia> fatejudger: i just said it won't be in sync
[01:32] <nikkia> its offset by whatever your arts latency is
[01:32] <fatejudger> nikkia: oh great
[01:32] <nikkia> either change arts' config to reduce latency, or live with it
[01:32] <fatejudger> nikkia: so there is no way to fix it?
[01:32] <nikkia> fatejudger: there are several ways to 'fix' it, each has its own pros and cons
[01:33] <fatejudger> nikkia: well if you could just change the latency in the arts config
[01:33] <fatejudger> nikkia: why is there even a latency to begin with?
[01:33] <thoreauputic> nikkia: but I understand what you mean - I used to be a photographer and could quote all kinds of obscure stats about film development etc
[01:33] <nikkia> fatejudger: because arts buffers audio to reduce the chances of audio buffer stalls
[01:33] <fatejudger> ?
[01:34] <fatejudger> nikkia: and what exactly are audio buffer stalls?
[01:34] <nikkia> thoreauputic: god, i still carry some of those stats - times for developer/fixer for each process, mostly - and i haven't done any darkrroom stuff in 2-3 years :)
[01:34] <nikkia> thoreauputic: used to do D76 and C41, so still have those numbers in my head :)
[01:35] <thoreauputic> nikkia: heheh - yeah, I had my own D76 1:1 recipes for each film :)
[01:35] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i only ever used one brand, so wasn't an issue
[01:36] <fatejudger> nikkia: google doesn't say anything about these buffer stalls
[01:36] <nikkia> fatejudger: in the 'sound system' part of the control center, it shows you how many buffers, and the latency involved,  are assigned
[01:36] <thoreauputic> nikkia: my work involved a lot of low light (theatre photography) so I used P3200 T-Max and TMY 400 for publicity shots etc...but this is *way* off-topic ;)
[01:37] <nikkia> and you can change it there too, but less buffers == more chance of a buffer stall == more chance of pops and clicks
[01:37] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i always used ilford
[01:37] <nikkia> (for D76)
[01:38] <fatejudger> nikkia: can you change the latency in there?
[01:38] <thoreauputic> nikkia: Ilford made nice films - but nothing comparable to P3200 at the time
[01:38] <nikkia> fatejudger: you can change the number of buffers assigned, which changes latency, yes
[01:39] <nikkia> thoreauputic: at least with D76 you didn't have to worry about temperature so much :)
[01:40] <nikkia> the problem with C41 was always keeping everything at 38C all the time
[01:41] <thoreauputic> nikkia: oh, I was a stickler for accuracy - theatre photography is an unforgiving discipline and I needed to standardiseeverything do I could produce results in minimum time
[01:41] <fatejudger> nikkia: I see what you mean about advantages and disadvantages
[01:41] <fatejudger> nikkia: it makes these blips every so often
[01:41] <nikkia> fatejudger: those are buffer stalls
[01:41] <fatejudger> nikkia: yeah
[01:42] <fatejudger> nikkia: it still isn't perfectly in sync
[01:42] <nikkia> fatejudger: the other solution, is to avoid arts completely, and a) setup dmix, b) wrap firefox direct to alsa instead of via arts
[01:43] <fatejudger> dmix?
[01:43] <nikkia> (you can still leave arts doing KDE sound via alsa, if dmix is setup right)
[01:43] <nikkia> fatejudger: its a software sound mixing feature in alsa
[01:43] <nikkia> fatejudger: but its not enabled by default on [k] ubuntu
[01:43] <thoreauputic> nikkia: E-6 (transparency) was even less forgiving than C-41
[01:43] <nikkia> !dmix
[01:43] <ubotu> rumour has it, dmix is at http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/index.php/Setting_up_Dmix_for_ALSA
[01:44] <nikkia> once you've done that, if you start firefox using 'aoss' instead of 'artsdsp' then firefox's dsp access will be wrapped to alsa
[01:46] <nikkia> without dmix though, only one application can use alsa at a time, which means you have to turn off arts (or enable auto-sleep mode for arts, but that doesn't guarentee that arts will be sleeping at the point you start firefox), and you'd be unable to use any other sound program while running firefox
[01:48] <fatejudger> wow
[01:48] <fatejudger> that sucks
[01:48] <fatejudger> dmix seems to have a buffer too though
[01:48] <fatejudger> so that won't be of any help
[01:49] <thoreauputic> fatejudger:  jackd can do minimum latency, but setting it up isn't easy (for me anyway)
[01:49] <fatejudger> great
[01:50] <fatejudger> why is it so easy to play flash in windows
[01:50] <fatejudger> but impossible to get this working in linux?
[01:50] <fatejudger> all I want to do is watch homestar and I have to go through all of this crap to get there
[01:50] <fatejudger> I might as well just watch it on my Windows dual boot
[01:50] <thoreauputic> fatejudger: macromedia have little interest in linux, I guess
[01:50] <Fraeon> Err...it doesn't download the Flash plugin on Frefox?
[01:50] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i think linspire pushing jackd as the solution to linux audio might end up trickling down to the other distros in 6-12 months
[01:51] <Fraeon> Firefox, that is...
[01:51] <fatejudger> Fraeon: you have to manually install it
[01:51] <fatejudger> how does this whole dmix thing work?
[01:51] <nikkia> and low-latency is just one of jack's many advantages :)
[01:51] <Fraeon> Hmmm...
[01:51] <fatejudger> I don't know how to start up multiple instances of alsa with it
[01:51] <nikkia> fatejudger: you don't, once its configured right, all alsa access goes via dmix automatically
[01:51] <fatejudger> well maybe in the next version of kubuntu
[01:52] <fatejudger> I'll be fortunately enough to experience it
[01:52] <Fraeon> That's awfully weird. Firefox should download it automatically...
[01:52] <Fraeon> Really, don't know what's the problem.
[01:52] <nikkia> fatejudger: be grateful you're using the kubuntu build of firefox
[01:52] <fatejudger> why?
[01:52] <nikkia> the native firefox build from mozilla uses esd for sound access, which means YET MORE buffers :)
[01:52] <fatejudger> lol
[01:53] <fatejudger> I don't see why the video doesn't communicate with the sound stuff
[01:53] <fatejudger> and just
[01:53] <thoreauputic> esd needs to die a horrible death 
[01:53] <fatejudger> match the video to the buffer
[01:53] <nikkia> thoreauputic: indeed
[01:53] <fatejudger> ok
[01:53] <fatejudger> I just implemented dmix
[01:53] <fatejudger> now
[01:53] <fatejudger> how do I restart stuff
[01:53] <Fraeon> This automatic font scaling in KDE on the other hand...
[01:53] <nikkia> fatejudger: its not that simple, sadly
[01:53] <nikkia> fatejudger: all audio systems need *some* buffers
[01:54] <nikkia> because you can't transfer data to a sound chip at 1 sample at a time
[01:54] <nikkia> jack cheats, and relies mostly on running in priviledged code (realtime-lsm) to achieve higher priority than most other processes, and so can get away with insanely small buffers (3 buffers by default, about 1mS latency)
[01:55] <nikkia> there is a downside to how jack does that though...
[01:56] <nikkia> it means that apps using jack typically also run in realtime priority, which gives them a little more dangerous access to the system
[01:56] <fatejudger> nikkia: do I still have to start firefox with that hack?
[01:56] <fatejudger> or do I start it normally now?
[01:57] <nikkia> its not an issue for pro-audio apps, which is what jack is designed for, but it is an issue if you directly wrap firefox, so you'd typically set up something like arts or esd with very low latency, and outputting to jack (arts/esd would run in priviledged priority, but they're a client-server architecture, so clients would run normally)
[01:57] <nikkia> fatejudger: you need to start it with the aoss hack, instead of the artsdsp hack
[01:57] <fatejudger> aoss hack?
[01:58] <fatejudger> nikkia: how do I do that?
[01:58] <nikkia> fatejudger: instead  of using artsdsp to send dsp access to arts, you use aoss to send dsp access to alsa
[01:58] <nikkia> fatejudger: 'aoss firefox'
[01:58] <fatejudger> ok
[01:58] <fatejudger> well
[01:58] <fatejudger> that didn't work so well
[01:59] <fatejudger> nikkia: it doesn't output sound anymore
[01:59] <fatejudger> I created that file
[01:59] <fatejudger> asound.conf
[01:59] <nikkia> then you probably haven't setup dmix right
[01:59] <fatejudger> and put all of that text in there
[01:59] <fatejudger> it says I needed to restart alsa applications
[02:00] <nikkia> fatejudger: did you restart KDE? if arts is still accessing alsa then dmix won't be in use yet
[02:00] <fatejudger> After editing these files, you need only to restart the ALSA application(s).
[02:00] <fatejudger> oh ok
[02:00] <fatejudger> so restart my computer
[02:00] <fatejudger> I get it
[02:00] <nikkia> no, just KDE
[02:00] <fatejudger> I can't do that
[02:00] <fatejudger> I can either
[02:00] <nikkia> log out, and back in
[02:00] <fatejudger> restart my computer
[02:00] <fatejudger> or log out
[02:00] <fatejudger> oh ok
[02:00] <fatejudger> log out
[02:00] <fatejudger> but
[02:00] <ilba7r> any one can help with cpy freq scaling?
[02:00] <fatejudger> that doesn't shut down X
[02:00] <fatejudger> it just goes to that KDE splash screen
[02:00] <fatejudger> with the login
[02:00] <nikkia> fatejudger: shouldn't matter, X itself doesn't do sound
[02:00] <fatejudger> ok
[02:01] <fatejudger> brb then
[02:01] <nikkia> oops, just realised, i could have walked him thru restarting arts :)
[02:01] <nikkia> still, not a good idea, kubuntu's arts has a 'bug'
[02:01] <nikkia> it sometimes locks up the system if you try to restart it :)
[02:02] <fatejudger> nikkia: so all of these times I've been restarting my computer
[02:02] <fatejudger> nikkia: I didn't really have to?
[02:02] <nikkia> fatejudger: probably
[02:02] <nikkia> fatejudger: there's really very little in linux that requires a reboot
[02:02] <nikkia> fatejudger: but sometimes, its just easier to reboot than work out how to restart the single thing you need to restart
[02:02] <fatejudger> yeah
[02:02] <fatejudger> ok
[02:02] <fatejudger> still isn't working
[02:02] <fatejudger> I'm gonna try restarting this time
[02:03] <fatejudger> brb
[02:05] <fatejudger> nikkia: well that didn't work
[02:05] <fatejudger> nikkia: I guess I'm basically screwed then
[02:06] <fatejudger> nikkia: it says I only needed to set that up
[02:07] <fatejudger> if ALSA didn't support dmix
[02:07] <fatejudger> predefined dmix plugin by using "plug:dmix" as the virtual ALSA device.
[02:08] <fatejudger> what is that?
[02:08] <fatejudger> plug:dmix
[02:23] <yrjo> i installed kubuntu today
[02:24] <yrjo> first the display was blank
[02:25] <ilba7r> what do you mean the dispaly was blank?
[02:26] <yrjo> black display only cursor was blinking
[02:27] <ilba7r> it did not load x then
[02:27] <ilba7r> thats not right
[02:27] <ilba7r> check if the cd is defective
[02:27] <fatejudger> no kidding
[02:27] <ilba7r> fatejudger perhaps you can be of better help at least i tried
[02:28] <yrjo> i had to disable my ati Rage Pro card first
[02:28] <fatejudger> that's what I would have told him
[02:28] <ilba7r> ok i have my own troubles with ubunto now so i leave him in your care
[02:28] <yrjo> now its okay
[02:28] <fatejudger> what's okay?
[02:29] <yrjo> i am now in kubuntu
[02:29] <fatejudger> so it just took awhile to load then?
[02:29] <yrjo> yes i didnt know it takes so long a time
[02:29] <fatejudger> it doesn't
[02:30] <fatejudger> it should be pretty damn fast
[02:30] <fatejudger> when I switched from windows
[02:30] <fatejudger> there wasn't much of a difference
[02:30] <fatejudger> how long did it end up taking?
[02:30] <fatejudger> could be like a
[02:30] <fatejudger> first time boot thing
[02:30] <yrjo> about 5 minutes
[02:30] <fatejudger> wow
[02:30] <fatejudger> that's quite a long time
[02:30] <fatejudger> you running it on some crappy box?
[02:31] <yrjo> ywes dell optiflex
[02:31] <fatejudger> well
[02:31] <fatejudger> if it's REALLY crappy
[02:31] <fatejudger> KDE may be too much for it
[02:31] <fatejudger> how fast is it?
[02:31] <yrjo> 655Mhz
[02:31] <KWizzard> y0, pls what is the address of that repository at acm.cs.edu?
[02:32] <yrjo> i dont know
[02:33] <fatejudger> umm
[02:33] <fatejudger> 655 isn't THAT bad
[02:33] <fatejudger> maybe it was a first time boot thing
[02:33] <fatejudger> you don't really have to restart your computer though
[02:33] <fatejudger> so it won't be like you'll have to deal with it
[02:33] <yrjo> yes it was fat first boot
[02:34] <fatejudger> you restarted?
[02:34] <yrjo> yes
[02:34] <fatejudger> and?
[02:34] <fatejudger> how fast was it?
[02:35] <yrjo> first it loaded all text then i ended to black display
[02:35] <yrjo> then i had to disable ati rage pro in the bios
[02:36] <fatejudger> so now
[02:36] <KWizzard> pls, I need that repo, but cannot find it on google
[02:36] <fatejudger> how is it?
[02:36] <fatejudger> dude
[02:36] <fatejudger> wtf do you need the repository for?
[02:36] <fatejudger> there are tons of them
[02:36] <fatejudger> tons
[02:36] <fatejudger> go download on one of the other ones
[02:36] <KWizzard> azureus, for example
[02:36] <yrjo> know it works somehow
[02:36] <fatejudger> what about azureus?
[02:36] <KWizzard> want it :D
[02:36] <fatejudger> well
[02:36] <fatejudger> download it
[02:36] <KWizzard> lol
[02:36] <fatejudger> azereus.sf.net
[02:36] <fatejudger> that's what I did
[02:37] <fatejudger> Ktorrent blows
[02:37] <fatejudger> Azereus is the best
[02:37] <fatejudger> on any OS
[02:37] <fatejudger> those developers
[02:37] <apokryphos> If you don't mind everything else having to run slow so you can download a few torrents, sure
[02:37] <fatejudger> are seriously talented
[02:37] <KWizzard> yep, and there is hoary-extras repo, but I do not know the address
[02:37] <apokryphos> and if you always want all the contents of a torrent
[02:37] <fatejudger> well
[02:37] <apokryphos> !hoary-extras
[02:37] <fatejudger> it may take up a decent amount of resources
[02:37] <ubotu> it has been said that hoary-extras is see  http://backports.ubuntuforums.org ; example hoary repo: deb http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/ hoary-extras main universe multiverse restricted
[02:37] <fatejudger> but
[02:37] <fatejudger> the interface
[02:37] <fatejudger> and features
[02:37] <fatejudger> I mean
[02:37] <fatejudger> they're incomparable
[02:37] <apokryphos> fatejudger: no, it takes up *loads* of resources. A silly amount.
[02:38] <fatejudger> well
[02:38] <apokryphos> Try putting in 8 torrents to download
[02:38] <fatejudger> I guess that depends on how you run it too
[02:38] <fatejudger> did you install the proprietary version of Java?
[02:38] <apokryphos> KTorrent is improving at a much faster rate than Azureus, by a long shot.
[02:38] <fatejudger> did you get the proprietary version of java though?
[02:38] <apokryphos> and, the interface, the UI is much cleaner in KTorrent... not sure what you're talking about.
[02:39] <apokryphos> me? Yes, of course.
[02:39] <fatejudger> yeah
[02:39] <fatejudger> well
[02:39] <KWizzard> where is ktorrent?
[02:39] <fatejudger> it shoudl run fine
[02:39] <fatejudger> you have to dl it
[02:39] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: hi :)
[02:39] <apokryphos> !ktorrent
[02:39] <ubotu> KTorrent is a KDE torrent Client. See: http://ktorrent.pwsp.net/index.php?page=downloads ; Ubu repository: deb http://dinton.no-ip.org/ kubuntu main
[02:39] <apokryphos> fatejudger: err, thanks, I know. Fire up azureus, put 8 torrents in, and tell me it's running fine then
[02:39] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: heyhey :)
[02:40] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: do you have skype? I'm playing with my new toy...
[02:40] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: Kopete has it, doesn't it?
[02:41] <apokryphos> never really used it though; how is it?
[02:41] <thoreauputic> no, skype is a separate thing
[02:41] <thoreauputic> it's bloody amazing IMO :)
[02:41] <nikkia> ahhh, afternoon apokryphos
[02:42] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: ooo, what's good about it?
[02:42] <apokryphos> nikkia: allo allo
[02:42] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: deb http://download.skype.com/linux/repos/debian/ stable non-free  << /etc/apt/sources.list line
[02:42] <nikkia> thought you might have popped off on your holidays without saying bye :P
[02:42] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: voice over IP
[02:43] <apokryphos> ohh
[02:43] <apokryphos> nikkia: yesterday was the wedding!!!
[02:43] <apokryphos> really really amazing time :)
[02:44] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: thanks; trying it now.
[02:44] <thoreauputic> :)
[02:44] <thoreauputic> you can try calling me - search for thoreauputic
[02:44] <KWizzard> I fount it
[02:44] <KWizzard> deb http://acm.cs.umn.edu/ubp/ hoary-backports main universe multiverse restricted
[02:44] <KWizzard> deb http://acm.cs.umn.edu/ubp/ hoary-extras main universe multiverse restricted
[02:45] <apokryphos> I don't have a [working]  mic :/
[02:45] <apokryphos> KWizzard: yes, I did link you to it before.
[02:45] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: ah...
[02:45] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: that's a pity
[02:45] <KWizzard> lol
[02:46] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: I managed to dig out a cheapy I had lying around ;)
[02:47] <apokryphos> Heh. Might have to look for one too later.
[02:47] <apokryphos> or maybe just hitting this one we have here hard enough will make it work
[02:47] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: if you want to test that you can hear, at least, I can call you: just /msg me your skype name
[02:48] <apokryphos> Cool. Seem to be downloading from slow sever; only hitting 78 KB/s :P
[02:48] <apokryphos> ok, installing.
[02:48] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: hah - on a goodday I get 5k on dialup !
[02:48] <apokryphos> 8)
[02:49] <apokryphos> Hm, it's not starting up. No Terminal output too :/
[02:49] <apokryphos> oh wait, yes it is :D
[02:50] <thoreauputic> give it time - takes a while to get going :)
[02:50] <apokryphos> username... apokryphos!
[02:50] <thoreauputic> :)
[02:50] <thoreauputic> OK hang on
[02:51] <apokryphos> oop, cousins are back. Will have to go in a sec. ;-)
[02:51] <thoreauputic> ringing...
[02:51] <apokryphos> picked up!
[02:51] <apokryphos> I sure can ;-)
[02:51] <apokryphos> nice
[02:51] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: aha
[02:51] <apokryphos> can I reply through there?
[02:52] <apokryphos> daimm, it's pretty clear eh?
[02:52] <apokryphos> and I can speak faster than I can type :P
[02:53] <fatejudger> apokryphos: ktorrent has no details
[02:53] <fatejudger> apokryphos: you can't look at the details of a file
[02:53] <fatejudger> apokryphos: it's peers
[02:53] <fatejudger> apokryphos: it has no features
[02:53] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: got the IM ?
[02:53] <apokryphos> yeah, sure itd oesn't.
[02:53] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: nope...
[02:53] <thoreauputic> hmm
[02:53] <fatejudger> apokryphos: well where are they then?
[02:53] <fatejudger> apokryphos: I don't see them
[02:54] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: yup
[02:54] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: not getting my messages through Skype?
[02:54] <thoreauputic> yep got two so far :)
[02:55] <Fraeon> Ick. This is a dumb question...
[02:55] <Fraeon> ...where do I reset Quanta's settings?
[02:57] <Fraeon> Never mind. Got it myself.
[02:57] <fatejudger> is there a way to seed for a certain amount of time
[02:57] <fatejudger> before shutting off the torrent?
[02:57] <fatejudger> I want to seed some
[02:57] <fatejudger> but not
[02:57] <fatejudger> to the point where I go over my bandwidth limit
[02:59] <nikkia> feh, /me stares at her torrent that's seeded 1GB since yesterday :)
[03:19] <nikkia> hmmm
[03:21] <Fraeon> PHP? Done. 
[03:21] <Fraeon> Oops, wrong channel.
[03:21] <Fraeon> Just had that set up, though. 
[03:23] <seaLne> anyone having problems with koffice in breezy?
[03:34] <jannov> hello guys
[03:35] <jannov> i have problem with compiling wine, can i post log here ?
[03:36] <nikkia> jannov, no, use a pastebin
[03:36] <nikkia> i doubt anyone will want to help tho, wine is in the repositories, and compiling wine by hand has never been easy
[03:36] <jannov> can u explain a little ?
[03:37] <nikkia> !pastebin
[03:37] <ubotu> pastebin is, like, totally, a site where you can post large texts and screenshots so you don't flood the channel. You can find it at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl
[03:37] <jannov> okay
[03:45] <jannov> is worth upgrade to latest Kde ?
[03:46] <jannov> i posted it, under jannov, if u can please look and give me some help
[03:47] <guille> holaaa
[03:54] <jannov> noone can help me ?
[03:59] <hussam> jannov: what do you need help with?
[03:59] <jannov> i donno what i can do with one error while compiling
[04:00] <N17R0> read the README, u probably missing some libs
[04:00] <N17R0> or u some --prefix
[04:00] <N17R0> *use
[04:01] <jannov> ./tools/wineinstall   i trying this, this is some autoinstaller
[04:02] <p0z3r> what regenerates the /etc/resolv.conf nameservers file?
[04:03] <p0z3r> I've had some difficulty with using my wireless card and getting dhcp to work b/c of it not getting regenerated correctly.
[04:04] <jannov> i posted error http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/1684
[04:07] <N17R0> jannov try: sudo ldconfig
[04:07] <N17R0> then try again, I dunno if this helps
[04:11] <nikkia> p0z3r: dhclient/dhclient3/pump generates /etc/resolv.conf unless it is told not to
[04:12] <p0z3r> nikkia: any reason why using a wifi card would not regenerate those nameservers?
[04:12] <nikkia> p0z3r: yes...
[04:13] <nikkia> p0z3r: sometimes the dhcp client never succeeds on wifi, for some reason
[04:13] <nikkia> usually, i find pump is the most common cause of that, and uninstalling pump/installing dhclient3 fixes it
[04:13] <nikkia> afaik, though, hoary doesn't install pump by default
[04:13] <p0z3r> nikkia: ah, that explains it.  I was using ifup to try to bring up the interface to have it never succeed.
[04:13] <nikkia> p0z3r: do a ps -aux and see if the dhcp lookup is still running
[04:16] <p0z3r> nikkia: dhclient3 is running on two interfaces, no dhcp lookup.
[04:16] <nikkia> p0z3r: that IS a dhcp lookup
[04:17] <nikkia> p0z3r: i didn't say 'dhclient3' because there are at least 3 programs that can do a dhcp lookup :)
[04:17] <p0z3r> nikkia: gotcha.
[04:17] <p0z3r> well it's still running.
[04:17] <nikkia> p0z3r: kill them
[04:17] <p0z3r> I was just having so many problems with it not auto populated the nameservers and the route.
[04:18] <nikkia> p0z3r: thats because those 2 dhclient3's are resetting the files
[04:18] <nikkia> kill the outstanding dhclient3's, then try bringing up the interface again - assuming you have it configured right now
[04:19] <p0z3r> nikkia: well I have the laptop working now here b/c I edited the resolv.conf with the nameservers that I use here.
[04:19] <p0z3r> so maybe I should just close those services and install pump instead.
[04:19] <nikkia> no
[04:21] <nikkia> p0z3r: dhclient3 will work fine, once the wifi is configured right
[04:22] <nikkia> most likely, those were left behind from when you had the essid or wep key wrong
[04:22] <p0z3r> nikkia: now how to we guarantee that the wifi will be configured right for example if I'm in an airport or a hotel that I don't know anything about the network.
[04:23] <delltony> anyone know the package to download to get all the kde headers?
[04:23] <nikkia> p0z3r: you can't, the only option if that is a serious issue, is to not bring the interface up by default
[04:23] <nikkia> p0z3r: using pump instead will NOT help you in that situation, in fact, it may make things far worse
[04:24] <p0z3r> nikkia: understandable.  so basically any laptop using a wireless card is subject to the same problems I'm having.
[04:24] <nikkia> p0z3r: there may be a dhclient3 config option to force it to give up after a specific number of tries, that might be worth having
[04:24] <nikkia> p0z3r: yes
[04:25] <nikkia> p0z3r: if you need to roam between a lot of base stations that all have different essids/wep keys, you probably will be limited to using kwifimanager to manage the interface
[04:26] <nikkia> p0z3r: using a static configuration for your wifi interface would help there, to a degree
[04:26] <p0z3r> nikkia:  it was occuring between open networks with no wep keys.. I'll just have to 'man dhclient3' to read up on this.
[04:26] <nikkia> p0z3r: ie you define your 'home' config as static, and then dhclient isn't going to get involved if you power-on away from home, but you'd still need to setup the wifi settings with kwifimanager
[04:27] <p0z3r> nikkia: I found kwifimanager to not help very much.
[04:27] <p0z3r> I've not upgraded, so maybe that's the problem.
[04:27] <delltony> dang this guy has the same exact problem i have is there not a fix for it http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=290653#post290653
[04:28] <p0z3r> I'm using the 5.04 Kubuntu.
[04:28] <nikkia> p0z3r: its going to be your only option... /etc/network/interfaces isn't designed for configurations that change often
[04:28] <nikkia> (it does support the concept of profiles, which can be switched between, but its still not very useful if you're only in an AP's range once :)
[04:28] <p0z3r> nikkia: okay, thanks for the insight this morning.
[04:40] <_jeff> hey guys
[04:41] <_jeff> im having a problem with ati control
[04:43] <delltony> anyone able to install kde development libs?
[04:43] <phaleon2> hi all 
[04:46] <phaleon2> i got a big problem here with kubuntu 5.04 it seems that either Xorg or Xfree server crash in random way 
[04:48] <phaleon2> when this is an hour I am on kubuntu it crash , dont know why 
[04:49] <phaleon2> I dont think it is the memory cause I got a mandrake on a an other part of the hard drive and it doesnt crash
[04:49] <phaleon2> can somebody give some hints ? 
[04:50] <phaleon2> I got no error message 
[05:00] <Chameleon22> howdy all
[05:00] <Chameleon22> i dont recall the name, but its like wallpaper type of thing, sits on the desktop and shows weather or what ever... anyone remember the name/url?
[05:01] <p0z3r> Chameleon22: SuperKaramba
[05:02] <Chameleon22> thanks
[05:02] <p0z3r> http://kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=23258
[05:02] <p0z3r> and more themes can be found on kdelook.org
[05:03] <Chameleon22> p0z3r, i was thinking about gdesklets 
[05:04] <_ali> hi anyone using qemu ?
[05:04] <_ali> i am getting following error
[05:04] <p0z3r> Chameleon22: ah okay.
[05:05] <_ali> Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
[05:05] <_ali> Xlib: No protocol specified
[05:05] <_ali> Could not initialize SDL - exiting
[05:10] <thoreauputic> !qemu
[05:10] <ubotu> I guess qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo or http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=200357&postcount=1
[05:20] <__fer__> hello
[05:24] <dazjorz> Heya
[05:24] <dazjorz> I've got compile problems with PHP
[05:24] <dazjorz> http://pastebin.com/348461
[05:25] <dazjorz> could someone help me with that ...?
[05:27] <dazjorz> ...Plz
[05:28] <thoreauputic> any reason why you want to compile php ? there are php packages in the repositories...
[05:28] <dazjorz> because I've got 2 servers
[05:28] <dazjorz> one is the normal, the second is my personal server
[05:28] <dazjorz> and I want that to support PHP too
[05:28] <dazjorz> and the only way to make that one support php is by doing it like this
[05:29] <thoreauputic> !info php4
[05:29] <ubotu> php4: (server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (meta-package)), section web, is optional. Version: 4:4.3.10-10ubuntu4 (hoary), Packaged size: 1 kB, Installed size: 24 kB
[05:29] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: .
[05:30] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: listen to what I said
[05:30] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: I want it to support PHP too
[05:30] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: I've got php installed already, for server 1
[05:30] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: and, next to that, I want it to support things that can only be supported by compiling
[05:30] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: what you said is triumphantly unclear, sorry
[05:31] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: What in the sentance of "I want to install PHP a second time for another server, thttpd, and can only do that through compiling" do you not get..>?
[05:31] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: *plonk*
[05:32] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: So... What do I do to solve that problem? 
[05:32] <dazjorz> thoreaputic: I'm currently doing configure with these vars...:
[05:33] <dazjorz> ./configure  --prefix=/privateserver --with-thttpd=../../thttpd/thttpd-2.21b/ --with-config-file-path=/privateserver/lib/php --with-zlib --with-bz2 --with-gd=/privateserver/lib --with-ttf=/privateserver --with-mysql --with-mysql-sock=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock --disable-rpath --disable-ipv6 --enable-static --enable-roxen-zts --enable-track-vars --enable-force-cgi-redirect --with-gettext --with-mysql=/usr/bin --with-jpeg-dir=../../thttpd-gd/gd-2.0.33/jpe
[05:33] <dazjorz> httpd-gd/gd-2.0.33/png/libpng-1.2.8 --with-xpm-dir=../../thttpd-gd/gd-2.0.33/xpm/xpm-3.4g/lib --with-freetype-dir=../../thttpd-gd/gd-2.0.33/freetype/freetype-2.1.10 --with-ftp
[05:34] <dazjorz> and it gives this
[05:34] <dazjorz> checking for XpmFreeXpmImage in -lXpm... (cached) yes
[05:34] <dazjorz> checking for FreeType 1 support... no - FreeType 2.x is to be used instead
[05:34] <dazjorz> configure: error: Unable to find gd.h anywhere under /privateserver/lib
[05:34] <dazjorz> after a while
[05:36] <dazjorz> ......... thoreauputic stay here please
[05:43] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: Comon dude
[05:43] <dazjorz> stay !
[05:43] <dazjorz> I need your help
[05:45] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: ajj comon
[05:47] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: I suggest you join #php - I can't really help you : compiling php5 stuff involves things that aren't in Ubuntu as far as I know
[05:47] <stoeptegel> amu: did i spoke to you yesterday about my "artifact" prob? i believe that was you right?
[05:48] <stoeptegel> amu: just wanted to say that latest build didn't solved the problem
[05:48] <dazjorz> thoreaputic: ##php: no answer
[05:49] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: could you please go to #ubuntu and unban + -q me
[05:49] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: I'm not an op - sorry
[05:49] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: then ask someone, for example Seveas...
[05:49] <dazjorz> it's been long enough now
[05:50] <thoreauputic> why were you +q ed?
[05:50] <dazjorz> because he asked me and Chris to stop talking offtopic, I did, Chris didn't, so I put him on ignore
[05:50] <dazjorz> then I asked twice how to de-ignore him and he +q'ed me for asking that twice
[05:52] <Jatos> hi
[05:53] <Jatos> just come back from france
[05:53] <Jatos> and  back to my broadband...
[05:54] <dazjorz> haha
[05:54] <dazjorz> welcome back
[05:56] <dazjorz> stoeptegel ? :S
[05:57] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: send Seveaz a memo - his nick is changed I think (not seveas)
[05:58] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: Seveas was blocked on the memoserv...
[05:58] <thoreauputic>  -z not -s
[05:58] <dazjorz> yah
[06:01] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: OK I dropped a line in #ubuntu - I guess it's up to Seveaz now
[06:01] <Tm_T> hi kids
[06:02] <dazjorz> hi father
[06:02] <dazjorz> hi dad ;)
[06:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi Tm_T
[06:02] <Tm_T> Kamping_Kaiser: o/
[06:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> :o
[06:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> havent seen you for a while
[06:05] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: i'm still banned. Can't you ask seveaz why i'm still banned ?
[06:06] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: he didn't respond, so... maybe he's afk
[06:06] <dazjorz> can you try more when he comes back ?
[06:07] <dazjorz> plz?
[06:07] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: I think you are overestimating my influence with the ops ;)
[06:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[06:07] <Jatos> hi
[06:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> thoreauputic: why arent you an op?
[06:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> your there when i got to bed and then wehn i log in again :)
[06:08] <thoreauputic> Kamping_Kaiser: I've applied for Ubuntu membership, but I guess I would need to be invited ;)
[06:08] <Jatos> ubuntu membership?
[06:09] <thoreauputic> Jatos: yes, to become an op you have to be a member first - they decide if you are worthy :)
[06:09] <thoreauputic> Jatos: contributions to the community etc..
[06:09] <Jatos> are
[06:10] <Jatos> what happens when your a member?
[06:10] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol. thoreauputic I'll back you, I'm not a desider thought :)
[06:10] <thoreauputic> Jatos: I've no idea yet ;) I just got asked to apply...
[06:10] <thoreauputic> so I did
[06:10] <Jatos> kk
[06:11] <Jatos> do you have to be a member to help develop ubuntu?
[06:11] <dazjorz> Jatos: I guess you get access to all beta's and need to do overwork with developing ubuntu
[06:12] <thoreauputic> Kamping_Kaiser: I've never been an op, so I have much to learn if they decided to ask me to be one 
[06:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> thoreauputic: learn how to ban and your set ;)... mind you, i just worked how to op myself, so i cant talk
[06:13] <thoreauputic> Jatos: I think you can help with MOTU stuff without being a member first
[06:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> afaik you can
[06:13] <delltony> any developers here?
[06:14] <thoreauputic> Kamping_Kaiser: heh - well xchat has a button that says "ban" - would that do? <j/k>
[06:14] <Tm_T> Kamping_Kaiser: yeah, I'm occasional Demon ] ;=
[06:14] <Tm_T> delltony: ?
[06:14] <delltony> i need the kde developement headers and all
[06:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> thoreauputic: lol. 
[06:15] <delltony> but for some reason i can't seem to get them via apt i get dependencies out the butt
[06:15] <Tm_T> delltony: install kde-devel package
[06:15] <NigeyUK> painful
[06:15] <delltony> like libxml2 and libxsomething anyother
[06:15] <delltony> when i try that
[06:15] <Tm_T> hum, breezy?
[06:15] <delltony> Depends: libxml2-dev but it is not going to be installed
[06:15] <delltony>  Depends: libxslt1-dev but it is not going to be installed
[06:15] <delltony> that
[06:15] <delltony> and no hoary
[06:16] <Jatos> whats motu?
[06:16] <Jatos> oh and btw when is breezy going to become the current version
[06:16] <NigeyUK> octoberish i think ... ?
[06:17] <delltony> hopefully it will upgrade easier than warty to hoary did
[06:17] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: I don't see you on the #ubuntu ban list
[06:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> Jatos:  oct
[06:17] <delltony> i borked my install 3 times before figurinig it out
[06:17] <NigeyUK> lol
[06:17] <delltony> the backports hosed it
[06:17] <Jatos> oct???
[06:17] <NigeyUK> i couldnt even install warty
[06:17] <NigeyUK> didnt like the radeon :s
[06:17] <gdh> Jatos: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[06:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> jatos, october
[06:18] <delltony> well i even downgraded the backports
[06:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> 10th month of 05
[06:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> 5.10
[06:18] <delltony> but the apt-get dist-upgrade just totally borked me going to hoary
[06:18] <Jatos> oh sorry, I was using my brain then
[06:18] <delltony> so i just installed a clean version of the iso
[06:19] <delltony> but Tm_T any suggestions?
[06:19] <delltony> i can't seem to get that metapackage to install
[06:19] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: I'll try again then
[06:19] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: #ubuntu - you're banned from that channel
[06:19] <Tm_T> delltony: um, sorry no :/
[06:20] <delltony> thats cool thans
[06:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> thoreauputic: are you in Aus?
[06:22] <thoreauputic> Kamping_Kaiser: yup
[06:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> go to bed ;)
[06:23] <thoreauputic> heh
[06:23] <NigeyUK> is there any way to change Flash font settings ?
[06:39] <Tm_T> erh
[06:40] <Tm_T> yes, modify flash animation
[06:40] <Tm_T> ;p
[06:40] <NigeyUK> :p
[06:51] <Auxin> hi @ everybody..
[06:51] <Auxin> how do i add a repository from my harddisc ?!
[06:52] <Kamping_Kaise1> pardon?
[06:52] <Auxin> well
[06:52] <Auxin> you haven't understood?
[06:52] <Auxin> ok
[06:52] <Kamping_Kaise1> no, sorry
[06:52] <Auxin> i want to add a source
[06:52] <Auxin> in synatpic
[06:52] <Auxin> this source should be my harddisc..
[06:53] <Auxin> e.g. /home/~/Deb
[06:53] <Auxin> you understand?
[06:53] <Kamping_kaiser> you have a deb and you want to instal lit?
[06:53] <Kamping_kaiser> oh, you have files there?
[06:53] <Auxin> ja
[06:53] <Auxin> yes
[06:53] <Auxin> :D
[06:53] <Kamping_kaiser> how many :)?
[06:53] <Auxin> hm at moment not many
[06:53] <Auxin> but soon :)
[06:53] <Kamping_kaiser> ah :o ok :)
[06:53] <Auxin> so i want synaptic to use these files
[06:54] <Kamping_kaiser> i advise against trying to set up a small mirror... it doesnt work :)
[06:54] <Auxin> really?
[06:54] <Kamping_kaiser> try putting the files in /var/cache/apt/archives/
[06:54] <Kamping_kaiser> Auxin: yeh, proper mirrors are hard :)
[06:55] <Auxin> can't i add a folder in the sources?
[06:56] <Auxin> a new one..
[06:56] <Auxin> i can't belive..
[06:56] <Kamping_kaiser> not unless I'm very very wrong in *my* understanding of how apt works
[06:57] <Auxin> i think .. u still havn't understood me.. :D
[06:57] <Auxin> ^
[06:57] <Auxin> fuck its hard to explain in english...
[06:58] <Auxin> so one more time.. I've got a folder where my deb's are in... i want to say synaptic to use this folder as a source...
[06:58] <Kamping_kaiser> maybe, but watch out, the ops don't like swearing :)
[06:58] <Kamping_kaiser> Auxin: i think i understand, and i don't think you can. you can install the debs using dpkg, but not synaptic
[06:59] <Auxin> lol ;)
[06:59] <Auxin> ok 
[06:59] <Kamping_kaiser> ;)
[06:59] <Kamping_kaiser> you know how to use dpkg ?
[06:59] <Auxin> of course..
[07:00] <Kamping_kaiser> cool :)
[07:00] <Kamping_kaiser> and no of course, not everyone does :P
[07:00] <Auxin> :D
[07:00] <Auxin> but it might be cooler to use the downloaded deb's with synaptic
[07:00] <Kamping_kaiser> :)
[07:00] <Auxin> but if it doesn't work
[07:00] <nikkia> Auxin: the problem is the rest of the infrastructure that you're missing
[07:00] <Auxin> y?
[07:01] <nikkia> Auxin: ie, the package lists, the distro structure, etc
[07:01] <Auxin> ok
[07:01] <Auxin> of course..
[07:01] <Kamping_kaiser> yeh, what she said :)
[07:02] <Auxin> everything allright..
[07:02] <Auxin> anyway .. thx for helping ;)
[07:02] <Kamping_kaiser> have fun 
[07:03] <Auxin> hm
[07:03] <Auxin> heh one more interesting question..
[07:03] <Auxin> what to use? wine or a emulator like vmware?
[07:04] <Kamping_kaiser> depends what for
[07:04] <dazjorz> is there a program like paint for Linux ?
[07:04] <dazjorz> very easy image painting ?
[07:04] <Tm_T> Krita
[07:04] <Tm_T> gimp is easy
[07:04] <Tm_T> it is
[07:04] <nikkia> dazjorz: there's a few, KolourPaint is the most obvious
[07:05] <nikkia> (as its installed as part of KDE)
[07:05] <jpatrick> yeah KolourPaint
[07:05] <dazjorz> nikkia: Thanks a lot :)
[07:05] <nikkia> Tm_T: Krita is more of a PSP equivalent
[07:05] <dazjorz> nikkia: If I remember good, you don't like to be called dude, so uhm... Thanks a lot, miss :)
[07:05] <nikkia> dazjorz: np
[07:05] <Kamping_kaiser> night all good luck and have fun
[07:05] <nikkia> nite Kamping_kaiser
[07:05] <dazjorz> nikkia: Oooh yes this is exactly what I was looking for !
[07:06] <dazjorz> nikkia: Wine nor Cedega worked with mspaint.exe
[07:06] <Tm_T> heh
[07:06] <Tm_T> not yet
[07:06] <Tm_T> but will be
[07:06] <Tm_T> I hope
[07:06] <Auxin> Kamping_kaiser, wtf.. what time is it   @ u?
[07:06] <Tm_T> maybe I've been playing with those apps too long
[07:06] <Kamping_kaiser> Auxin: 02:39 am
[07:06] <Auxin> oh hell
[07:06] <Auxin> :D
[07:06] <nikkia> Tm_T: well, cloning PSP seems to be the most obvious goal, thats what i was hinting at really
[07:06] <Tm_T> I used PSP from 4.x to 9.01 or something
[07:06] <Auxin> ok good n8
[07:06] <Kamping_kaiser> lol
[07:06] <Auxin> << 7:06 pm
[07:06] <nikkia> Tm_T, given that i can't bear PSP, that means that Krita is a no-go for me :)
[07:07] <Kamping_kaiser> Auxin: oh lol
[07:07] <nikkia> as long as they don't mess up the UI on gimp tho, i'm happy :)
[07:07] <Tm_T> Kamping_kaiser: btw you propably will see me more often here next week, we are installing phoneline&dsl any day now
[07:07] <nikkia> Kamping_kaiser: damn it, stop living in weird timezones with *:30 offsets!!
[07:08] <Kamping_kaiser> Tm_T: cool, and nikkia, lol. sorry ;)
[07:08] <Tm_T> dazjorz: =)
[07:08] <nikkia> (NZ i'm guessing)
[07:08] <Tm_T> dazjorz: miss xD
[07:08] <Auxin> sihit.. i need sound here...
[07:09] <Tm_T> nikkia: I used to use PSP, but it's not best way to do things...
[07:09] <Auxin> do anybody of u know.. if there are some in here who use ppc and kubuntu?
[07:09] <nikkia> Tm_T, I always found the MDI interface painful
[07:09] <nikkia> TM_T, part of that might be being used to PS on Macs
[07:09] <Tm_T> heh
[07:09] <nikkia> (photoshop is NOT a MDI app natively, despite what people claim when bashing gimp :)
[07:10] <dazjorz> Tim_T: Nikkia is a woman. Thats why I call her miss instead of dude. It's not a man-to-man joke ;)
[07:10] <Tm_T> hehe
[07:10] <Tm_T> gimp is pretty good afterall
[07:10] <dazjorz> Nikkia: Is it me or does 'woman' sound a bit... uh
[07:10] <Tm_T> dazjorz: yea, but I can still find it amusing
[07:10] <nikkia> dazjorz: just you, i think, 'girl' would sound worse :P
[07:11] <dazjorz> nikkia: Hmm, I think girl sounds a lot more positive then woman...
[07:11] <Tm_T> nikkia: hi girl, wazzup ;) ;)
[07:11] <Tm_T> ;--P
[07:11] <Auxin> lmao
[07:11] <dazjorz> Tim_T: That way it sounds like you want to fuck ;)
[07:11] <jpatrick> hmm.. pictures have stopped working in Konqueror
[07:11] <Tm_T> yuk
[07:11] <Tm_T> dazjorz: clean your mouth!
[07:11] <dazjorz> but 'woman' sounds like it's something ugly, etc.... strange
[07:12] <Auxin> wtf... why is my connection so slow.. :/
[07:12] <dazjorz> Auxin: Cuz... your connection is... slow ? ^^
[07:12] <dazjorz> Auxin: I made that up whole by myself ! :D
[07:12] <Auxin> lol
[07:12] <Tm_T> nikkia: and just kick me when I'm too irritating
[07:12] <nikkia> i bet my boss is going to send me these code changes at about midnight, and expect me to integrate them by morning
[07:13] <Auxin> fuck
[07:13] <nikkia> Auxin: language!
[07:13] <Auxin> sry
[07:13] <Auxin> << has no java..
[07:13] <dazjorz> haha
[07:13] <dazjorz> Auxin: java.sun.com
[07:13] <Auxin> so azureus can'T work...
[07:13] <Tm_T> :/
[07:13] <dazjorz> Auxin: It has an automatic java installer file
[07:14] <Auxin> really?
[07:14] <dazjorz> Auxin: Download the auto .bin file, do chmod +x on it, then run it
[07:14] <dazjorz> Auxin: I'm using Azureus myself too, and it works perfect :)
[07:14] <nikkia> dazjorz: using make-jpkg would be more sensible
[07:14] <dazjorz> nikkia: make-jpkg ?
[07:14] <dazjorz> nikkia: java package ?
[07:14] <nikkia> takes a java .bin and turns it into a debian package
[07:15] <nikkia> !java
[07:15] <ubotu> from memory, java is to install Java please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[07:15] <dazjorz> nikkia: .........Really? Great, never heard of that ! Though, the .bin file is to be executed, and it works like that, I don't know why someone would want to spend time on converting when it doesn't actually makes any difference in installing....
[07:15] <Auxin> Grrrr
[07:15] <nikkia> its probably mentioned on there
[07:15] <Auxin> bbl
[07:15] <nikkia> dazjorz: it makes it easier to remove it, later
[07:15] <nikkia> dazjorz: and makes it easier to upgrade too
[07:15] <dazjorz> nikkia: Ah, that explains :)
[07:15] <dazjorz> nikkia: Didn't know about htat.
[07:15] <dazjorz> that*
[07:15] <dazjorz> !make-jpkg
[07:15] <ubotu> dazjorz: What?
[07:16] <dazjorz> !nothing
[07:16] <ubotu> No idea, dazjorz
[07:16] <nikkia> it might be called build-jpkg or something
[07:16] <dazjorz> ubotu, nothing is Nothing.
[07:16] <ubotu> dazjorz: okay
[07:16] <dazjorz> !nothing
[07:16] <dazjorz> ...
[07:16] <dazjorz> nvm.
[07:16] <nikkia> as i said, its probably mentioned on that page :)
[07:16] <jpatrick> I think you have to add <info>
[07:16] <dazjorz> !nothing
[07:16] <ubotu> [nothing]  Nothing.
[07:16] <dazjorz> !nothing
[07:17] <nikkia> ah, its not, they just suggest adding the repositories that contain the java packages :)
[07:17] <nikkia> dazjorz: there, read that bit:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaPackageBuildNewVersions
[07:19] <dazjorz> what's fakeroot ?
[07:19] <nikkia> dazjorz: its a program that fakes root access for some things that think they need to be run as root when they don't really
[07:19] <dazjorz> haha
[07:19] <dazjorz> cool
[07:20] <thoreauputic> nikkia: wonderfully concise and circular ;)
[07:20] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i don't think its circular
[07:20] <thoreauputic> nikkia: OK, just concise then :)
[07:21] <dazjorz> haha
[07:21] <dazjorz> the GD library in PHP is great
[07:21] <dazjorz> ..just wanted to say that ^^
[07:21] <nikkia> dazjorz: ah, you finally figured out why your building wasn't working ? :)
[07:24] <dazjorz> Yeh
[07:24] <dazjorz> I was using an extern GD library
[07:24] <dazjorz> some guys told me, after 30 minutes, that that wasn't a great idea :S
[07:24] <dazjorz> but the PHP site itself links to the GD lib site
[07:25] <dazjorz> so... I still don't get why, they don't like telling you why you need to so something on most channels, "just do it"
[07:26] <dazjorz> By the way.... It's odd that a shitload piece of C++ code can create a new language like PHP... that really WORKS like that....
[07:27] <dazjorz> Damn, the GD explanation isn't in my PHP book :(
[07:27] <dazjorz> so I need to take it off the site
[07:28] <nikkia> iirc, there was/is a project to self-host php
[07:28] <dazjorz> I'm self hosting PHP
[07:28] <dazjorz> hehe
[07:28] <dazjorz> oh you mean the docs ?
[07:29] <dazjorz> yeah, they are available for download, and in php.ini you can set where you saved them so that if a function fails, you automatically get a link to that function in the manual !! :)
[07:29] <dazjorz> thats very very handy
[07:29] <nikkia> no, when talking about languages, self-hosting means the language being written in the language itself
[07:29] <dazjorz> oooooh
[07:29] <dazjorz> but.... ?? :S
[07:29] <nikkia> so, a C compiler written in C is self-hosting, but, something like PHP being written in C or C++ isn't
[07:30] <dazjorz> uhmm
[07:30] <dazjorz> what is the point of self hosting haha
[07:30] <dazjorz> I mean, why would you create PHP with PHP
[07:30] <dazjorz> that you create a C compiler in C is only handy when there are more functions etc. in the compiler
[07:30] <nikkia> dazjorz: it makes it much easier to port the language to a new environment, and it generally improves the ability to further develop the language
[07:30] <dazjorz> like, a C compiler in another language can compile a little bit of C
[07:30] <dazjorz> and then a new C compiler within C, can have more functions
[07:31] <dazjorz> but with PHP, there is no such thing....
[07:31] <nikkia> dazjorz: a given language's fans are generally going to be more comfortable programming in that language, if the language can be expressed in itself, then its fans can extend and fix that language better
[07:31] <dazjorz> I mean, you can create functions and stuff, but you just make that file and edit something in php.ini and you have all functions in all your files
[07:32] <dazjorz> Ah yes
[07:32] <dazjorz> I think I get what you mean...
[07:33] <nikkia> with languages that don't provide a compiled form, you can sometiimes minimalise the core language, and have a compiler that produces C code for those core functions, then still write the main language/libraries in itself
[07:33] <dazjorz> so, you can create a new language that is very much like PHP itself, and the processing and coding happens in PHP again
[07:35] <dazjorz> is it possible to create a file, with in that the PHP code and some needed stuff, and the PHP code that you want to be executed ?
[07:35] <dazjorz> so that if you execute the file, you need nothing, because it loads PHP and executes the code in it automatically ?
[07:35] <nikkia> dazjorz: no idea, probably
[07:36] <dazjorz> is it that what you mean ?
[07:36] <dazjorz> I think C++ isn't quite comfortable
[07:36] <dazjorz> so if you write a PHP "compiler" with code next to it...
[07:36] <dazjorz> that would be incredibly handy
[07:44] <nikkia> evening apokryphos
[07:44] <jpatrick> hello apokryphos 
[07:44] <apokryphos> Hola hola =)
[07:45] <jpatrick> hola
[07:45] <apokryphos> Cousins/uncle/aunty just left. Little sad :)
[07:45] <apokryphos> jpatrick, nikkia: how are both of you fine people? :)
[07:45] <jpatrick> Not bad
[07:45] <nikkia> fighting with paypal :/
[07:45] <jpatrick> KXDocker is working now
[07:46] <apokryphos> jpatrick: nice! Whatdu do?
[07:46] <apokryphos> nikkia: how come?
[07:46] <nikkia> apokryphos: forgot my password, again
[07:46] <apokryphos> :/
[07:46] <jpatrick> The HD and network icons won't go away :/
[07:46] <nikkia> actually, it would seem i hadn't, but it refused to log me in
[07:46] <jpatrick> i have to right -> remove from dock every time it starts
[07:46] <apokryphos> jpatrick: on the desktop?
[07:46] <nikkia> as the 'change password' function refuses to change TO the password i tried *shrug*
[07:47] <apokryphos> it should save the settings...
[07:47] <apokryphos> nikkia: it doesn't provide a reason?
[07:47] <jpatrick> Yeah I change it in Alias options
[07:47] <hussam> guys, is there any easy way to scan the system for broken symlinks?
[07:47] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: my skype is flashing, in the tray icon... does that mean something>?
[07:47] <nikkia> hussam, yeah, the accounting package that runs by default and sends you emails about 'hanging symlinks'
[07:48] <nikkia> hussam: i forget its name, but run that manually and it'll tell you
[07:48] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: it means there's an unread message I think
[07:48] <dazjorz> Apokryphos! Haven't seen you in quite a while
[07:48] <dazjorz> ^^
[07:48] <hussam> nikkia: I found this in /var/mail/hussam: mandb: warning: /usr/share/man/man1/x-terminal-emulator.1.gz is a dangling symlink
[07:48] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: probably me asking for approval ;)
[07:49] <nikkia> hussam, thats the one
[07:49] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: ah, so I see.
[07:49] <apokryphos> dazjorz: hey :). Yeah, been slightly busy the past few days... my sister just got married. =)
[07:49] <nikkia> hussam: those messages are generated by a scanner run by cron.daily, i forget the name of the program tho
[07:49] <dazjorz> congratulations, apokryphos
[07:49] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: ah, thank you !
[07:49] <thoreauputic> ;)
[07:49] <dazjorz> it seems like that everyone is marrying these days, btw
[07:49] <hussam> nikkia: how would I fix that dangling symlink?
[07:50] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: heh, I couldn't bring it up. Of course I'll accept 8)
[07:50] <apokryphos> dazjorz: thanks; it was a really really great day :)
[07:50] <nikkia> hussam: remove it, and/or point it somewhere valid :)
[07:50] <dazjorz> apokryphos: good =)
[07:50] <dazjorz> apokryphos: what was it like ?
[07:50] <jpatrick> hmmm..
[07:50] <jpatrick> now kxdocker's icon on the sys tray's gone
[07:51] <apokryphos> dazjorz: the wedding was around three. Funny seeing how the English respond to the strange customs :P (we're Greek).
[07:51] <dazjorz> ah
[07:51] <apokryphos> dazjorz: reception at a Greek bar/tavern later on. Really great; got everyone to get up and do some Greek dancing
[07:51] <dazjorz> haha
[07:51] <apokryphos> good food, great people, happy time. Little more to ask for. 8)
[07:51] <dazjorz> and that was ? :)
[07:51] <jpatrick> food....
[07:51] <nikkia> apokryphos: everything greeks do is 'strange' to us, thats why we call strange things 'greek' :)
[07:51] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: looks like I have the apokryphos seal of approval - you show green now :)
[07:52] <apokryphos> jpatrick: chicken, lamb... great Greek cooking. ;-)
[07:52] <jpatrick> :9
[07:52] <apokryphos> dazjorz: nothing really! Haven't seen my cousins in a *long* time, but still got on really well with them. Major plus.
[07:52] <dazjorz> what is Greek dancing like ?
[07:52] <apokryphos> nikkia: it is all Greek to you :P
[07:52] <nikkia> apokryphos: indeed
[07:52] <nikkia> apokryphos: we won't go into the other thing british people call greek :P
[07:53] <apokryphos> dazjorz: seemingly synchronized steps from left-to-right. But they never really are, really. :P Good dancing, though; makes social interaction trivial.
[07:53] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: sure. :) Gonna look for it in a bit =)
[07:53] <dazjorz> apokryphos: I used to learn Greek at school. The teacher still teaches me, but I don't learn anymore ;)
[07:53] <dazjorz> apokryphos: That was old-greek, by the way.
[07:53] <apokryphos> nikkia: /me ponders... I have no idea
[07:53] <nikkia> dazjorz: modern, or classical ?
[07:53] <nikkia> apokryphos: best for /msg
[07:54] <dazjorz> nikkia : classical ==> old-greek
[07:54] <dazjorz> actually <==> or ==
[07:54] <apokryphos> dazjorz: ancient Greek, ah -- yes, some schools still do it. I can make out quite a bit of it, but not too much. Kind of comparable to Middle-English to modern
[07:54] <dazjorz> yeah
[07:55] <nikkia> as i understand it, the primary reason for teaching classical greek anywhere, is still religious related  - the bible was written in classical greek
[07:55] <dazjorz> apokryphos: I'm at a school type in the Netherlands, it's called Gymnasium (and no, that's not the same as a (classical) greek gymnasium, it's the highest type of school that's here) and that's the only type of school that teaches latin and greek too
[07:55] <hussam> nikkia: is it safe to remove the file /usr/share/man/man1/x-terminal-emulator.1.gz ?
[07:55] <apokryphos> nikkia: the Septuagint, yes, but I don't think it's by any means the main reason
[07:56] <nikkia> hussam: *shrug*
[07:56] <dazjorz> yea, my class sometime wonders why we learn latin and greek... the teachers say "it could be handy in your later career"
[07:56] <dazjorz> hussam: why would you want that ?
[07:56] <nikkia> dazjorz: i think thats a subtle way of saying you're all losers that'll end up having to become priests :)
[07:56] <apokryphos> nikkia: Greek is a major language, really. Latin pretty much is derived from it, and from Latin comes many others. Needless to say, Greece was a major capital of art, literature etc etc for quite long. Its affect on fields like Philosophy and architecture is still, well, very prevalent. :)
[07:56] <dazjorz> nikkia: Uhh... I don't hope so.... ;)
[07:56] <apokryphos> They revolutionized the western world, there's no question about that.
[07:57] <nikkia> apokryphos: the schools that teach classical greek, all tend to be catholic schools, i'm sure 'religion' is the main reason
[07:57] <dazjorz> apokryphos --> nikka: Agreed.
[07:57] <dazjorz> nikkia*
[07:57] <nikkia> most non-private schools gave up on greek decades ago :)
[07:57] <hussam> dazjorz: it's a dangling symlink
[07:57] <thoreauputic> nikkia: well, some people still translate Homer, and that's hardly "religious" ;)
[07:57] <nikkia> apokryphos: i'm not saying greek has no bearing on linguistics, just that the reason it is taught now, seems to be religious in nature
[07:58] <apokryphos> nikkia: correlation doesn't imply causation, for one; though they're not all Catholic, really. :)
[07:58] <dazjorz> nikkia: As you say, my school was something like a church in the old days....
[07:58] <apokryphos> nikkia: erm, when they learn to read Plato and Aristotle in school? Not likely. :)
[07:58] <dazjorz> hussam: It's a man page. Shouldn't matter. But, where is it pointing to?
[07:58] <apokryphos> nikkia: they don't learn Koine Greek; they learn Classical Greek.
[07:59] <dazjorz> nikkia & apokryphos: I think the main reason that the gymnasium teaches greek, is that most kids who go to gymnasium, really WANT to learn greek and latin etc.
[07:59] <dazjorz> nikkia & apokryphos: It's like a rule
[07:59] <hussam> dazjorz: to /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator.1.gz
[07:59] <thoreauputic> most priests/ministers learn New Testament Greek, which isn't classical greek
[07:59] <dazjorz> nikkia & apokryphos: Also, some careers want you to have the gymnasium diploma, and if you want the gymnasium diploma, you need to have done greek and latin
[08:00] <hussam> dazjorz: and /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator.1.gz itself points to another nonexinsting files
[08:00] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: precisely
[08:00] <dazjorz> hussam: Allright... It seems to be a manpage, that should be no problem, but why do you want to delete it ?
[08:01] <thoreauputic> hmm - apparently New Orleans is about to be hit by a cyclone
[08:01] <dazjorz> haha
[08:01] <hussam> dazjorz: because I thought it was not safe to have dangling symlinks, but if it's not a problem, I won't remove it.
[08:01] <thoreauputic> Hurricane Catrina
[08:02] <dazjorz> oooh, i thought you meant cyclope, thoreauputic,... Talking about greek ;)
[08:02] <nikkia> hussam, dangling symlinks are a potential security problem, but only 'potential' don't overly worry about them
[08:02] <dazjorz> hussam: It's no problem if a manpage is a dangling symlink. It would be a greater problem if it would be in /bin, /lib, and other important dirs
[08:02] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: in most parts of the world hurricanes are now called cyclones
[08:03] <dazjorz> hussam: It only becomes a problem when some program really requires you to have that certain manpage, but since it's just a manual page, I don't think that any program will require it...
[08:03] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: I made something about hurricanes for geography last year
[08:03] <nikkia> dazjorz: i can actually see one potential problem from a dangling manpage symlink
[08:04] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: they're called differently all over the world, like Japan: typhoons, but in America they're still called hurricanes
[08:04] <dazjorz> nikkia: and that is ?
[08:04] <hussam> nikkia, dazjorz : ok thanks for the explanation. I really appreciate your help. :)
[08:04] <jpatrick> food.... brb
[08:04] <dazjorz> hussam: no problem, but wait a sec, maybe nikkia's going to say something important
[08:04] <nikkia> dazjorz: ie, make the target of the symlink another symlink to /etc/shadow, since the man-db update process is usually run as root, it would index the shadow password file as root, thus succeed in reading it, and then possibly expose passwords via man -k/apropos
[08:04] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: right - I was in a tropical cyclone in Fiji some years ago - it's scary stuff
[08:05] <nikkia> dazjorz: its a long shot, but it IS a potential exploit
[08:05] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: eek !!...
[08:05] <dazjorz> nikkia: Uhh.... I don't get it, but if it is a potential exploit, then maybe it's better if Hussam deletes it
[08:06] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i lived thru a cat 3 hurricane when i was in the US, both fun and not-fun at the same time :)
[08:06] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: we had hurricane shutters like picket fences - flying coconuts hitting them make rather a loud noise ;)
[08:06] <nikkia> dazjorz: depends, putting that second symlink in would probably require root access anyway
[08:06] <thoreauputic> nikkia: it's OK if you are prepared
[08:06] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: scary...
[08:06] <nikkia> dazjorz: but i supppose that could be achieved by another exploit somewhere
[08:07] <dazjorz> nikkia: lol, if an exploit can do something with root access, then I think it doesn't need to do something like that to get root access, because he already has it....
[08:07] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i was prepared... but not quite prepared to see water oaks bent horizontal in the wind :)
[08:07] <nikkia> dazjorz: depends
[08:07] <nikkia> dazjorz: an exploit may exist that can create a file that doesn't exist, as root, but not read/overwrite a file as root
[08:07] <thoreauputic> nikkia: yeah, it's pretty amazing, the force of it - and it sounds like a jet at take off
[08:08] <nikkia> dazjorz: i'm not saying its likely, just pointing out a potential problem with assuming 'nah, its only a manpage'
[08:08] <dazjorz> nikkia: ok...
[08:08] <dazjorz> hussam: you'd better delete that file though
[08:08] <dazjorz> hussam: it could be exploited
[08:09] <thoreauputic> nikkia: we had the leeward windows open to equalise pressure so the roof wouldn't get sucked off :/ 
[08:09] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i managed to have to go to hospital because of the hurricane i stayed thru :P
[08:09] <nikkia> thoreauputic: for a really really silly reason :)
[08:10] <nikkia> thoreauputic: i stood on a rusty nail while trying to nail boards over the windows 2 days before it hit :P
[08:10] <thoreauputic> nikkia: wow - you weren't hurt I hope?
[08:10] <thoreauputic> ah I see
[08:11] <hussam> dazjorz: I delete both /usr/share/man/man1/x-terminal-emulator.1.gz  and /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator.1.gz ? they are both broken and lead to the same nonexisting file
[08:11] <dazjorz> hussam: Yeah, that's a good idea
[08:11] <hussam> dazjorz: ok thank you very much
[08:11] <dazjorz> hussam: though, only the first file is easily exploited, the second file could be exploited too. It's no problem to delete them
[08:12] <dazjorz> i mean, could be used for exploiting
[08:12] <dazjorz> hussam: Thank nikkia, she has done the great part of the thinking behind this ;)
[08:13] <hussam> nikkia: thanks for the analysis and help :)
[08:13] <dazjorz> hehe
[08:17] <nikkia> cooking dinner now, idle for 30 minutes or so
[08:17] <dazjorz> nikkia: /away
[08:18] <dazjorz> nikkia: /away 1
[08:18] <jpatrick> I'm back
[08:20] <dazjorz> jpatrick: /away 0
[08:20] <dazjorz> ^^
[08:20] <NigeyUK> what are "held packages" in kynaptic ?
[08:21] <jpatrick> packages that aren't going to be install
[08:21] <jpatrick> installed*
[08:21] <NigeyUK> ahh oki
[08:26] <manolista> can I conver a 32bit installed kubuntu in a 64bit ubuntu?
[08:26] <manolista> convert*
[08:28] <_jeff> hey guys
[08:28] <_jeff> im having trouble compiling and installing themes
[08:28] <am> amu: you aboot?
[08:29] <apokryphos> _jeff: what's the problem
[08:30] <apokryphos> Mark Shuttleworth is at aKademy -- cool.
[08:30] <am> hmm anyone know how i can run the auto-x configure program that is run on installation?
[08:31] <apokryphos> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[08:31] <apokryphos> ....with a few more options
[08:31] <_jeff> apokryphos: whenever i try to install a theme it always fails
[08:31] <am> with a few more options?
[08:32] <apokryphos> _jeff: did you specify the prefix on the configure?
[08:32] <_jeff> apokryphos: no
[08:32] <_jeff> how do i?
[08:32] <thoreauputic> manolista: I think the answer would be "no"
[08:32] <manolista> I hope
[08:33] <apokryphos> _jeff: ./configure --prefix=/usr
[08:33] <_jeff> ok
[08:33] <Tm_T> ?
[08:33] <_jeff> ill try it
[08:34] <Tm_T> --prefix='kdeconfig --prefix' ?
[08:34] <Tm_T> or what it was
[08:34] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: prefix=/usr is deprecated for locally compiled stuff afaik
[08:34] <thoreauputic> /usr/local is usual
[08:34] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: why compile locally?
[08:34] <thoreauputic> ?
[08:35] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: why /usr/local? For themes /usr is best; haven't tried to put it in local/, could work...
[08:36] <_jeff> apokryphos: it said there was no acceptable c compiler found in $path
[08:36] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: hmm - OK - I don't compile themes so...
[08:36] <apokryphos> _jeff: sudo aptitude install build-essential
[08:37] <delltony> apokryphos, whats going on man
[08:37] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: you may be right since the theme engine needs to be where gnome expects to find it
[08:37] <_jeff> apokryphos: ok
[08:37] <apokryphos> Tm_T: `kde-config --prefix` which is /usr on Kubuntu, yes.
[08:37] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: or KDe :P
[08:37] <thoreauputic> or KDE indeed
[08:37] <thoreauputic> :)
[08:37] <apokryphos> delltony: hi :). All going well -- happy times here. You?
[08:38] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: of course, fluxbox doesn't have these problems ;)
[08:38] <delltony> about the same, hey you wouldn't know how to get kde-devel installed on ubuntu would you?
[08:38] <thoreauputic> !start a window manager war
[08:38] <ubotu> thoreauputic: Are you on ritalin?
[08:38] <delltony> trying to compile kmobiletools and i need the kde headers
[08:38] <apokryphos> delltony: sudo aptitude install kde-devel
[08:38] <thoreauputic> hahah
[08:38] <delltony> tried hat
[08:38] <delltony> i get the following 
[08:39] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: how does it handle themes? :P
[08:39] <delltony> kde-devel: Depends: kdesdk but it is not going to be installed
[08:39] <delltony>              Depends: kdelibs4-dev but it is not going to be installed
[08:39] <delltony>              Depends: kdebase-dev but it is not going to be installed
[08:39] <delltony>              Depends: libkonq4-dev but it is not going to be installed
[08:39] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: they are either a text file or a dir with a text file pointing at it
[08:39] <apokryphos> delltony: hm, that's an old error IIRC. You have 3.4.2?
[08:40] <Tm_T> 4?
[08:40] <apokryphos> Tm_T: just the name of the pack; not kde4
[08:40] <delltony> as in kde?
[08:40] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: better system, sounds like. I have zero idea how themes in KDE work; compiling ->  bad system.
[08:40] <delltony> i have 3.4.0
[08:40] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: and it calls them Styles, in the grand tradition of *nix *never* being consistent under any circumstances if it can help it ;-)
[08:41] <apokryphos> delltony: get 3.4.2; I think kde-devel might be in that repo too
[08:41] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: you cn write your own Style in fluxbox without too much effort
[08:41] <thoreauputic> *can
[08:41] <_jeff> apokryphos: i get this error now: checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths!
[08:41] <delltony> ok stupid question how do i upgrade it? i have been doing apt-get upgrade and nothing
[08:41] <apokryphos> _jeff: sudo aptitude install libx11-dev
[08:42] <apokryphos> ubotu: tell delltony about kde342
[08:43] <apokryphos> delltony: it should in theory be in backports; 3.5 when it comes out probably will be, I think.
[08:43] <Tm_T> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[08:43] <apokryphos> dist-upgrade is probably better, IIRC
[08:43] <delltony> ok  i didn't have the kubuntu repository
[08:43] <bazan> Hello
[08:43] <Tm_T> !kde342
[08:43] <ubotu> I guess kde342 is at http://kubuntu.org/hoary-kde-342.php
[08:43] <delltony> dist-upgrade will install breazy will it not
[08:43] <apokryphos> hi bazan 
[08:43] <bazan> what is the difference between univers and offical?
[08:44] <delltony> i dont' want breazy yet
[08:44] <thoreauputic> yes, only dist-up[grade will install new packages, as oposed to updates
[08:44] <apokryphos> bazan: things in official are supported by Ubuntu. Universe isn't.
[08:44] <am> apokryphos: ok now X is giving me this. AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0
[08:44] <thoreauputic> bazan: universe is community supported
[08:44] <apokryphos> ubotu: tell bazan about components
[08:44] <bazan> apokryphos: but univers is done by the same pesone as official?
[08:45] <apokryphos> bazan: not always/exactly. Check the link ubotu just gave you
[08:45] <thoreauputic> bazan: universe is done by the MOTU
[08:45] <bazan> MOTU ???
[08:45] <bazan> what is that?
[08:45] <apokryphos> delltony: it won't give you breezy
[08:45] <thoreauputic> !motu
[08:45] <ubotu> motu are the Masters of the Universe (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU)
[08:45] <thoreauputic> bazan: ^^^
[08:45] <apokryphos> am: autodetection apparently failed
[08:46] <delltony> dist-upgrade will not? 
[08:46] <delltony> i thought thats how you go from one distro to the next iirc thas how i did warty to hoary
[08:46] <apokryphos> delltony: if you don't add teh breezy repository -- no, never.
[08:46] <delltony> and so forth
[08:46] <thoreauputic> delltony: it only gives you breezy if you change sources
[08:46] <apokryphos> You have to first change your sources.list then dist-upgrade to get to breezy
[08:46] <thoreauputic> yup
[08:47] <_jeff> apokryphos now i get this error: checking for libz... configure: error: not found.
[08:47] <bazan> hum OK, thanks now it's very clear
[08:47] <apokryphos> _jeff: I'm sure you can guess what it means; not really cryptic
[08:48] <thoreauputic> _jeff: 99% of compiling errors like that mean you need a -dev package for a library
[08:48] <_jeff> apokryphos: i see 
[08:49] <thoreauputic> but of course 75.87% of statistics are wrong ;-)
[08:49] <_jeff> so, what do i do?
[08:49] <thoreauputic> _jeff:  apt-cache search libfoo-dev
[08:49] <_jeff> im trying to install tibilt theme 
[08:49] <_jeff> ok
[08:50] <Tm_T> theme?!
[08:50] <_jeff> i just did it and it just gave me another prompt
[08:50] <_jeff> yeah
[08:50] <Tm_T> style
[08:51] <Tm_T> I love tiblit
[08:51] <_jeff> yeah
[08:51] <_jeff> how do i install it?
[08:51] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: and 70% are made up on the spot :P
[08:51] <LikesLunch> Hi folks... i'm running (k)ubuntu and gnome apps take forever to start and don't load properly from KDE? gedit takes about 2 minutes to pop up, gnome-calculator doesn't seem to load any buttons, etc.... anybody seen anything like that?
[08:51] <apokryphos> nope; still pretty fast here
[08:52] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: well, 67.45% of people say so, but 89% of them are wrong as well ;-)
[08:52] <apokryphos> hehe
[08:52] <Tm_T> _jeff: you propably need to compile t
[08:53] <delltony> aww
[08:53] <delltony> ok thats good to know
[08:53] <delltony> i didn't realize that
[08:53] <delltony> thanks
[08:53] <delltony> damn i was way out of date like 200 upgrades when i added that repository :(
[08:53] <delltony> little off topic but anyone every bluejack a cellphone i found this application called mobiluck and its a little java applet that lets you send message to other phones without having to do the add contact or callendar trick
[08:54] <Tm_T> wtf
[08:54] <_jeff> Tm_T: how do i compile t?
[08:54] <apokryphos> _jeff: I told you how
[08:54] <apokryphos> you just need to get that package
[08:54] <apokryphos> _jeff: this place shouldn't be a substitute for putting in a bit of work yourself :P
[08:55] <_jeff> apokryphos: i did everything you told me. forgive me but im new
[08:56] <apokryphos> _jeff: there was surely a pattern in the errors that I'm sure you picked up :P
[08:56] <apokryphos> you probably want zlib-dev package or something
[08:56] <apokryphos> !find zlib
[08:56] <ubotu> Ubuntu Package Listing of 'zlib' (9 shown): libcompress-zlib-perl ;; libio-zlib-perl ;; libzlib-ruby ;; libzlib-ruby1.6 ;; libzlib-ruby1.8 ;; zlib-bin ;; zlib1g ;; zlib1g-dev ;; zlibc.
[08:56] <apokryphos> zlib1g-dev -- that's it, I imagine.
[08:56] <thoreauputic> _jeff: usually source code also comes with some info about what you need to compile it: or the info is on the website somewhere
[09:01] <_jeff> thoreauputic: the readme says to install i should: ./configure --prefix=`kde-config --prefix` [--disable-debug] 
[09:01] <_jeff> then underneath it says: [--enable-final] 
[09:01] <apokryphos> `kde-config --prefix` is /usr on Kubuntu
[09:02] <_jeff> ok
[09:02] <_jeff> ill try it
[09:13] <d3cay^> lo chann
[09:13] <apokryphos> d3cay^: hi there
[09:14] <d3cay^> any1 up to helpin a n00b get firefox installed on a fresh kubuntu install?
[09:14] <Tm_T> hi kids
[09:14] <Tm_T> =)
[09:14] <wong> anyone know upgrade firefox?
[09:14] <thoreauputic> d3cay^: sudo apt-get install mozilla-firefox
[09:14] <thoreauputic> d3cay^: or use kynaptic
[09:14] <wong> which way find installer
[09:14] <apokryphos> nikkia: hola!
[09:15] <nikkia> gah, i hate that about kvirc
[09:15] <d3cay^> ill give it a shot thoreauputic
[09:15] <nikkia> every window, except the help browser, closes when you click 'x'
[09:15] <d3cay^> brb
[09:16] <wong> thoreauputic is blocking messages from unidentified users. You must register and identify with NickServ before talking to this user.
[09:16] <wong> what ??
[09:16] <nikkia> the help window, however, doesn't, clicking 'x' there, closes the current channel window :P
[09:16] <thoreauputic> wong: right, I'm +CE
[09:16] <wong> open ur door
[09:16] <thoreauputic> wong: there have been a lot of spammer bots lately
[09:17] <thoreauputic> wong: it's usual to ask, rather than ordering
[09:17] <wong> i can't chat with u 
[09:17] <thoreauputic> wong: uh huh
[09:17] <thoreauputic> wong: you can in the channel
[09:17] <wong> ok
[09:17] <Tm_T> =)
[09:17] <Tm_T> he can't
[09:18] <Tm_T> ;-P
[09:18] <wong> which way go through find umbrello new version?
[09:18] <Tm_T> nikkia: welcome back :)
[09:18] <nikkia> gah, i was outbid on an ebay auction :(
[09:19] <d3cay^> thoreauputic: big thanx 
[09:19] <d3cay^> worked like a charm
[09:19] <d3cay^> :P
[09:19] <thoreauputic> d3cay^: the wonders of apt-get :)
[09:19] <d3cay^> heheh
[09:19] <d3cay^> stilll learnin but ya ive been usin that alot
[09:19] <d3cay^> :>
[09:20] <apokryphos> wong: umbrello what?
[09:20] <wong> thoreauputic: where   can upgrade firefox?
[09:20] <wong> umbrello 3..4.0
[09:20] <apokryphos> yes, what about it?
[09:20] <wong> it is a UML2.0
[09:20] <thoreauputic> wong: firefox is the latest version afaik
[09:21] <nikkia> apokryphos: i imagine he wants it, the one in the repositories is probably old :)
[09:21] <wong> where i can get it
[09:21] <apokryphos> wong: the main Kubuntu developer is the author fo Umbrello :)
[09:21] <thoreauputic> wtf is umbrello?
[09:21] <nikkia> thoreauputic: UML modeller/code-generator
[09:21] <thoreauputic> !info umbrello
[09:21] <ubotu> umbrello: (UML modelling tool and code generator), section universe/devel, is optional. Version: 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu5 (hoary), Packaged size: 1757 kB, Installed size: 4856 kB
[09:21] <thoreauputic> ah OK
[09:21] <dazjorz> I WANT TO GET ACCESS TO #UBUNTU !!!!
[09:21] <thoreauputic> non-coder here...
[09:21] <apokryphos> wong: looks like the latest version to me
[09:21] <dazjorz> BUT I'm BANNED :(:(:(
[09:22] <nikkia> wow, the package is described almost identical to what i said :)
[09:22] <apokryphos> dazjorz: please don't shout
[09:22] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: maybe you shouted too much ?
[09:22] <dazjorz> apokryphos: but I want to go to #ubuntu soooooooo bad
[09:22] <apokryphos> dazjorz: only makes it less hard for people to guess why you were banned :)
[09:22] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: I shouted ONE THING, because I needed the answer VERY FAST ...
[09:22] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: thats where I got banned for
[09:22] <apokryphos> dazjorz: you're shouting NOW
[09:22] <apokryphos> please don't
[09:23] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: is that normal ? getting banned for 1 sentance of shouting? Banned for over 2 weeks now ?
[09:23] <thoreauputic> dazjorz: well, you don't seem to have learnt from your experience
[09:23] <wong> hold on.. anyone know instaler gcc latest 1
[09:23] <apokryphos> dazjorz: it's not unheard of, by any means.
[09:23] <dazjorz> thoreauputic: ........ But I want to go to #ubuntu soooooooooooo much................................................
[09:23] <apokryphos> dazjorz: especially if people haven't changed in the meantime :P
[09:23] <dazjorz> ajj
[09:23] <thoreauputic> wong:  sudo apt-get install build-essential - unless you want gcc4
[09:24] <_root> hi
[09:24] <dazjorz> hi
[09:24] <apokryphos> dazjorz: ergh. The overuse of punctuation is extremely similar to shouting. Please don't do it. It's spammy
[09:24] <wong> thoreauptic: where i can find it >>gcc4
[09:24] <thoreauputic> _root: erm, any particular reason you are on IRC as root?
[09:24] <dazjorz> apokryphos: Ok... But... I still want to go to #ubuntu,... How do I make clear how much I want it
[09:24] <wong> izzit online
[09:24] <apokryphos> dazjorz: the amount that you want it is irrelevant
[09:25] <apokryphos> your conduct and behavior is
[09:25] <apokryphos> dazjorz: no, you just said earlier that it was because you were shouting.
[09:25] <d3cay^> im off to play some more thanx again thoreauputic
[09:26] <thoreauputic> wong: why do you need gcc4 ? But if you need it google could find it I'm sure
[09:26] <wong> sry.. i need 2 do some java in eclips
[09:26] <nikkia> wong, did you try searching for gcc-4 in the repositories ?
[09:26] <nikkia> wong, i suspect not, or else...
[09:26] <nikkia> !info gcc-4
[09:26] <wong> bt can't run application
[09:26] <nikkia> hmmm, its there somewhere
[09:26] <nikkia> !info gcc-4.0
[09:27] <ubotu> gcc-4.0: (The GNU C compiler), section universe/devel, is optional. Version: 4.0-0pre6ubuntu7 (hoary), Packaged size: 458 kB, Installed size: 3116 kB
[09:27] <nikkia> there we go
[09:27] <thoreauputic> nikkia: aha - didn't know gcc4 was in hoary!
[09:27] <nikkia> thoreauputic: its been in there ages
[09:27] <dazjorz> haha
[09:28] <thoreauputic> nikkia: I'm sure it has - I just didn't know, so thanks :)
[09:28] <dazjorz> btw. PHP is testing, its at 480 of 728
[09:28] <dazjorz> hey what ASCII sign is ^M
[09:28] <dazjorz> what does it do
[09:29] <dazjorz> he, wat doet die stoeptegel hier
[09:29] <Fraeon> Hmmm...
[09:29] <Fraeon> Tuxracer is discontinued but I heard there was a better version of it out there
[09:29] <nikkia> dazjorz: i was 'commenting' on your silly question about ^M
[09:29] <Fraeon> I just can't remember what it was called
[09:30] <dazjorz> allright
[09:30] <dazjorz> nikkia: I saw it in the less program
[09:30] <dazjorz> nikkia: So, what sign is it,
[09:30] <stoeptegel> dazjorz: looking for amu being allive
[09:30] <dazjorz> nikkia: in the less program, I saw a ^M
[09:30] <dazjorz> stoeptegel: amu ?
[09:30] <thoreauputic> !info tuxracer
[09:30] <ubotu> tuxracer: (3D racing game featuring Tux, the Linux penguin), section universe/games, is optional. Version: 0.61-6.4 (hoary), Packaged size: 498 kB, Installed size: 992 kB
[09:30] <nikkia> dazjorz: yes, i gathered that the first time you said it
[09:30] <dazjorz> haha
[09:30] <dazjorz> i'm gonna install that
[09:31] <nikkia> a complete picture of why you're banned in #ubuntu is really beginning to form :P
[09:31] <apokryphos> Not half as fun as here :D
[09:31] <stoeptegel> dazjorz: yes he gave me advise yesterday and i want to report te result...
[09:31] <dazjorz> stoeptegel: ok
[09:32] <Fraeon> apokryphos: Yeah, cause I'm not there ;)
[09:32] <thoreauputic> !seen amu
[09:32] <ubotu> amu is currently on #kubuntu
[09:32] <Fraeon> A channel is instantly transformed into a barrelful of laughs when I arrive
[09:32] <apokryphos> Fraeon: something was missing ;-)
[09:32] <thoreauputic> there you go
[09:33] <dazjorz> !tell amu about are-you-there
[09:33] <dazjorz> try that
[09:33] <apokryphos> dazjorz: please don't be annoying. If you want to speak to someone ping them, and wait for a response.
[09:33] <thoreauputic> ;)
[09:33] <dazjorz> try !tell amu about are-you-there
[09:33] <dazjorz> apokryphos: Ping them ?
[09:34] <apokryphos> dazjorz: i.e. do a X: hi, are you there? ...and nothing more.
[09:34] <Fraeon> thoreauputic just proved my point :>
[09:34] <dazjorz> apokryphos: when they come back, they won't see that, because it was probably said a looooooooooooooooong time ago
[09:34] <apokryphos> gah
[09:34] <dazjorz> :)
[09:34] <nikkia> dazjorz: some of us use irc clients that popup a notification window on whichever desktop we're working on :P
[09:35] <dazjorz> Konversation ?
[09:35] <nikkia> hell no
[09:35] <dazjorz> Konversation only has the option to popup a window when someone says your name
[09:35] <dazjorz> which means, even when you're currently looking at it
[09:35] <nikkia> some of us use real irc clients :P
[09:35] <apokryphos> you'd have to be gone for *ages* for a message in Kubuntu to no longer show under Konversation
[09:35] <apokryphos> i.e. a few days
[09:36] <apokryphos> bugging people repeatedly is going to be annoying, not more else.
[09:36] <apokryphos> nikkia: some of us use aesthetically pleasing ones, too :D
[09:37] <nikkia> apokryphos: the one i use is just as pleasing, depending on theme in use
[09:39] <Tm_T> irssi <3
[09:39] <Fraeon> FemaleDogX <3
[09:40] <Tm_T> bah
[09:40] <Tm_T> bitchx :/
[09:41] <nikkia> kvirc heart 
[09:41] <nikkia> no crappy <3 icon needed here :P
[09:41] <thoreauputic> !start an IRC client war
[09:41] <ubotu> xchat is better than konversation !
[09:42] <Fraeon> It would be...if it were done on QT ;>
[09:42] <jpatrick> what does that <3 mean?
[09:42] <Fraeon> jpatrick: less than three
[09:42] <nikkia> thoreauputic: ubotu's 'wars' are rarely convincing, he always chooses something like that, or 'vi is better than edlin' :)
[09:42] <thoreauputic> nikkia: true enough ;)
[09:43] <nikkia> i bet if you tell him to start a browser war, he uses 'firefox is better than telnet port 80' :P
[09:43] <Xorlev> nikkia: Not everyone has that character :P
[09:43] <thoreauputic> hahah
[09:43] <Fraeon> !start a browser war
[09:43] <ubotu> Fraeon: I give up, what is it?
[09:43] <thoreauputic> nikkia: what's wrong with telnet? /me ducks and runs
[09:43] <Xorlev> jpatrick: Either less than three, or a crude heart :P
[09:43] <thoreauputic> :D
[09:43] <nikkia> thoreauputic: as a debug tool, not much, tbh
[09:43] <jpatrick> okay
[09:43] <Xorlev> telnet...eeevil.
[09:44] <Xorlev> Why use insecure telnet, when you can use SSH?
[09:44] <nikkia> Xorlev: because ssh'ing to port 80 doesn't yield much
[09:44] <nikkia> Xorlev: context of the conversation is everything!
[09:44] <Xorlev> :P
[09:45] <Xorlev> Telnet can be useful too at times I admit.
[09:46] <nikkia> Xorlev: its a great debugging tool, i don't install telnetd anymore tho
[09:46] <Xorlev> Correction then, telnetd is evil :P
[09:46] <thoreauputic> !start a browser war
[09:46] <ubotu> lynx  is way better than  mozilla  !
[09:46] <nikkia> heh
[09:47] <Xorlev> OMGWTFBBQ! Mozilla is so totally better than Pepsi!
[09:47] <thoreauputic> feel free to edit the factoid... *g*
[09:47] <nikkia> oh no, the lilo fanbois have invaded /.
[09:47] <Xorlev> Pepperjack is much better than Mozilla ^_^
[09:48] <nikkia> thoreauputic: w3m is better than firefox, now there's one thats actually arguable :)
[09:48] <thoreauputic> heh
[09:49] <nikkia> (the 'graphics in an xterm' hack for w3m is genius, IMO)
[09:56] <Fraeon> Hmmm...there's one thing that I hate in KDE
[09:56] <Fraeon> The automatic font scaling
[09:56] <Fraeon> When you switch resolutions
[10:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: definitely
[10:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: how did the work go? The one you had to do by Friday
[10:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: he'll be well tanked up by now tho, i bet
[10:01] <nikkia> apokryphos: i've spent most of today waiting for my bosses changes to the code :P
[10:01] <apokryphos> heh
[10:01] <nikkia> apokryphos: he said he was going to modify the compensation (stuff that deals with money in/out) part for me, so i didn't need to work on it
[10:01] <chx> how could I tell dhclient not to delete nameserver 127.0.0.1 from resolv.conf?
[10:01] <nikkia> at midnight last night, he emailed me saying it was 'pretty much done, i'll send it tomorrow'
[10:01] <nikkia> i'm still waiting :P
[10:02] <nikkia> chx, there's an undocumented command in /etc/network/interfaces to add a nameserver to the list, i think its dns-nameservers
[10:02] <apokryphos> slcaker indeed!
[10:02] <nikkia> chx, failing that, you can switch to a static resolv.conf by telling dhclient not to request the dns values
[10:03] <chx> nikkia: I think I'd prefer the latter -- do you know what should I write into dhclient.conf ?
[10:03] <nikkia> (or you can even tell dhclient to prepend items to the list it gets back, i think that IS documented, in the manpage for dhclient.conf
[10:03] <nikkia> chx, edit the dhclient.conf, and there should be a list of items to request, just remove the one that has dns in it's keyword
[10:03] <chx> prepend [ option declaration ]  ; <= that one i saw
[10:04] <chx> prepend nameserver 127.0.0.1?
[10:04] <nikkia> close
[10:04] <nikkia> prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
[10:04] <chx> ahhhh
[10:05] <nikkia> apokryphos: i know very well he'll email me the changes at midnight->1am, and expect them integrated tomorrow morning at 9am :P
[10:05] <chx> nikkia: thanks
[10:05] <apokryphos> nikkia: what, you need sleep? :D
[10:05] <nikkia> apokryphos: i've already said to him that i've made substantial changes to the code that he's altering, and that i plan to hand merge them, i can't just copy his classes over mine
[10:06] <nikkia> apokryphos: well, i certainly don't 'need' a bank holiday, it'd seem, so needing sleep is probably a stretch of the imagination too :)
[10:06] <apokryphos> ah, tomorrow? Forgot.
[10:07] <nikkia> apparently :)
[10:08] <apokryphos> nikkia: do you get lieu days or whatever for your BHs?
[10:08] <nikkia> ahahahhaha, no
[10:08] <nikkia> officially, i'm 'not working' :)
[10:08] <apokryphos> heh
[10:09] <nikkia> just like how officially, i've had every weekend off since may
[10:09] <apokryphos> The company sure would get a mighty blow if you left 8)
[10:10] <nikkia> apokryphos: that'd be why when they were saying that they were going to move office, and i kicked up a fuss about how it was a 'kick in the nuts' (just a phrase) as far as i was concerned, he told me 'we'll do ANYTHING to keep you here'
[10:10] <apokryphos> It all of course makes more sense now, yes. =)
[10:10] <nikkia> i don't drive, so its important to me that my office is within walking distance
[10:10] <Fraeon> You shouldn't use the phrase "a kick in the nuts" if you don't have any nuts people can kick to. ;(
[10:11] <apokryphos> Fraeon: why not?
[10:11] <nikkia> Fraeon: in that case, i'm sure we can demand back usage of a lot of phrases that men use when they shouldn't :)
[10:11] <apokryphos> even most English swearwords (or derogatory remarks) are things that are either just weird, or biologically impossible
[10:11] <apokryphos> s/weird/pleasurable
[10:12] <nikkia> apokryphos: indeed, i can think of one off the top of my head that fits 'pleasurable' :)
[10:12] <Fraeon> "fucknuts"?
[10:13] <apokryphos> ones I won't mention in here :D
[10:13] <Fraeon> Maybe we should start saying "you bundle of wood!"
[10:13] <nikkia> Fraeon: that just annoys squirrels
[10:13] <nikkia> (the nuts one)
[10:14] <Fraeon> Some may consider me nuts for doing this, but I'm installing IE on Wine
[10:14] <Fraeon> Again the nuts came up
[10:14] <nikkia> 'you spend all summer burying the darned things, then some pesky human goes and makes them taste funny!' (and yes, i'm aware that squirrels don't spend much time burying nuts really)
[10:15] <nikkia> (and i'm also aware that the majority of squirrels around the world don't bury nuts at all :)
[10:16] <Fraeon> Hmmm...fails at 40%
[10:19] <jpatrick> apokryphos: is there any way of moving KXDocker to the top of the screen?
[10:20] <Fraeon> What are all the addons people use to get those Mac desktops on KDE?
[10:20] <Fraeon> KXDocker is one, I heard some use Karamba...
[10:20] <Fraeon> But what else?
[10:21] <Fraeon> Oh, and now I can browse the web with IE like 90% of the people
[10:21] <Fraeon> Although I only installed it because a program I need to run on wine needs it
[10:24] <jpatrick> I like KXDocker coz it's fast
[10:24] <apokryphos> jpatrick: no, I don't think you can. Docks are pretty much always at the bottom
[10:24] <jpatrick> Noooo!!
[10:25] <apokryphos> I've only ever used it briefly though; I'd have to try it again to be sure.
[10:25] <apokryphos> Fraeon: karamba is good for many things
[10:25] <jpatrick> There's an option to move it but it's greyed out >:(
[10:25] <Blissex> Fraeon: have you got unlimited memory and CPU to spare? then go ahead and ask in #KDE about EYE CANDY! :_)
[10:26] <Tm_T> don't do it
[10:26] <Fraeon> If I had that to spare, I'd be using Vista Beta 1
[10:26] <apokryphos> Blissex: it's not that bad, really :D. Though it's pretty bad
[10:26] <jpatrick> Vista :P
[10:26] <Tm_T> I keep noose ready for everyone who's asking eyecandy
[10:27] <jpatrick> apokryphos: why what would happen?
[10:27] <apokryphos> Blissex: doing 30 or so dcop calls a second used to bring at least SK 0.6 (hope I'm remembering the versions here) to its knees
[10:27] <apokryphos> jpatrick: SK was/is notorious for being CPU-intensive
[10:27] <Blissex> apokryphos: you need to try transparency and shadows then :-)
[10:27] <apokryphos> Blissex: tried; though doesn't seem to work with current Xorg
[10:28] <apokryphos> annoying, because I wanted to try transparency with just windecs to see how it ran. 
[10:28] <Blissex> apokryphos: and perhaps use E 0.17 instead of KWin :-)
[10:28] <Blissex> apokryphos: they seem to work here... With KDE 3.4.2, but amazingly slowly (I haven't installed thw accel driver).
[10:28] <apokryphos> erm, 0.36 not 0.6
[10:28] <apokryphos> Blissex: I haven't even tried it without the accel driver :P
[10:29] <apokryphos> not that I would; I'd imagine it'd be very slow. I hope this issue becoems fixed eventually in Breezy (it's still currently broken)
[10:29] <nikkia> apokryphos: NeXTstep invented the concept of the dock... and it's dock was .... on the right hand side
[10:30] <apokryphos> hah
[10:30] <apokryphos> KDE's old QuickLaunch was actually a semi-dock. 
[10:30] <apokryphos> though I do actually prefer the new hover-over affect (some hate it with passion)
[10:31] <nikkia> apokryphos: see: http://www120.pair.com/mccarthy/nextstep/intro.htmld/desktop1.gif
[10:31] <apokryphos> unfortunate for them; the idea is used much more in kicker in 3.5
[10:31] <nikkia> (there's actually 2 docks there, in fairness)
[10:31] <apokryphos> ah, I see.
[10:31] <riddlebox> is kubuntu the most up to date debian distro?
[10:32] <apokryphos> riddlebox: it's the quickest-kde-updating debian-based distro, if that's what you're asking.
[10:32] <nikkia> riddle, depends if there's been a knoppix release recently
[10:32] <riddlebox> can you still use the debian repositories then? or does kubuntu/ubuntu have their own?
[10:33] <apokryphos> it has its  own
[10:33] <nikkia> [k] ubuntu have their own
[10:33] <riddlebox> so are all the packages that are in debian's repositories available then
[10:33] <apokryphos> nikkia: read the latest dot article? Shuttleworth doing a talk at aKademy :D. I found that pretty cool
[10:33] <nikkia> it would be nice if the packages were more debian-compatible, but that'd probably mean being stuck with Xfree :)
[10:33] <apokryphos> riddlebox: pretty much
[10:34] <riddlebox> hrmm thanks
[10:34] <nikkia> apokryphos: of course not, i only ever read it when you twist my arm into it :P
[10:35] <apokryphos> nikkia: why not -- it's interesting, really! I guess only if you're interested in the world of kde
[10:35] <apokryphos> though it seems to be down again... great.
[10:35] <nikkia> apokryphos: *shrug* its just not something i read on my own volition, don't know why
[10:35] <nikkia> i usually find it interesting when i get there, however
[10:36] <nikkia> except tonight, cos its not loading :P
[10:37] <apokryphos> nikkia: you're more interested in non-DE related stuff; 'cos you're among the old fogies :D
[10:38] <nikkia> among?
[10:38] <nikkia> i'm working to enslave them and make them my army of the undead to do my bidding!
[10:38] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: I resemble that remark! :P
[10:38] <apokryphos> nikkia: you're not alone, yes!
[10:38] <apokryphos> hehe
[10:38] <apokryphos> thoreauputic: you do? But you like fluxbox :D
[10:39] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: I'm definitely an old fogie...
[10:39] <thoreauputic> ;-)
[10:39] <nikkia> real old fogies use fvwm and bemoan the fact it isn't 'fast' anymore :P
[10:39] <apokryphos> didn't mean old, age-wise. nikkia here is pretty young; I meant in the world of Linux -- she's been w/ith it for some time 8)
[10:40] <nikkia> apokryphos: i'm not that young :/
[10:40] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: :)
[10:40] <apokryphos> nikkia: yeah, you are :P
[10:40] <nikkia> balls!
[10:40] <nikkia> 6 minutes left on an auction and the price just shot up
[10:40] <apokryphos> nikkia: always the way
[10:41] <thoreauputic> nikkia: actually real old fogies reminisce about IBM 360s , punch cards and PDP-11 s ;-)
[10:41] <nikkia> thoreauputic: Mmmmm, 36-bit goodness
[10:41] <nikkia> TOPS-20 beats all!
[10:41] <apokryphos> real, real old fogies reminisce about the good ol' calculator
[10:41] <apokryphos> pascal-style
[10:41] <nikkia> altho VMS comes close
[10:42] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: calculators? whatever happened to slide rules ?
[10:42] <nikkia> thoreauputic: besides, i tend to find that DEC-based old fogies pretty much evenly divide between PDP-8 weenies and PDP-11 fans :)
[10:42] <apokryphos> if you ask me, I still prefer the Abacus... don't know why these yougins are comin' out with all this other stuff
[10:42] <apokryphos> no need
[10:42] <nikkia> altho the PDP-10 is better than them both, but we have less loving :(
[10:43] <thoreauputic> apokryphos: abacus? You were lucky... we had to count toes and fingers in my day!
[10:43] <apokryphos> hehe
[10:43] <EasterSunshine> apokryphos: were you the dude that said you installed ubuntu on someone's comp, with an ssh server and remote desktop server?
[10:43] <apokryphos> no
[10:43] <nikkia> thoreauputic: and used base-12 ? *gd&r*
[10:43] <EasterSunshine> oh
[10:44] <apokryphos> sticks with leaves does the job just fine
[10:44] <apokryphos> freakin' stone age
[10:44] <thoreauputic> nikkia: base twelve *and* base twenty - not to mention base 21 for Guineas !
[10:44] <Tm_T> :/
[10:45] <jpatrick> :\
[10:45] <nikkia> so you admit you have 12 fingers and 12 toes ? :)
[10:45] <apokryphos> :|
[10:45] <thoreauputic> nikkia: pounds, shillings and pence!
[10:45] <thoreauputic> nikkia: I prefer not to check my toes these days - not a pretty sight ;p
[10:46] <Blissex> nikkia: I used to love Twenex
[10:46] <nikkia> Blissex: we all did
[10:46] <Blissex> nikkia: user space paging and all that -- I could cry :-)
[10:46] <nikkia> Blissex: only the heathens liked TOPS-10
[10:47] <nikkia> Blissex: and lets not mention those godless druids and their 8/11s
[10:47] <Tm_T> wtf
[10:48] <Blissex> nikkia: 11s had their own reason to exist, for the poor masses.
[10:51] <nikkia> blissex, indeed
[10:51] <Blissex> nikkia: I keep a photo of my favourite 11/34 running 2.9BSD framed on the stand next to my bed :-)
[10:52] <nikkia> Blissex: i never had favorites, just a nice big cluster
[10:52] <jpatrick> anyone here know how Katapult works?
[10:52] <nikkia> Blissex: mostly VAXen, but there were a handful of PDPs in there
[10:53] <thoreauputic> heh - *nothing* has happened in #ubuntu-devel for over an hour - that's some kind of record
[10:54] <apokryphos> they must all be at aKademy :D
[10:54] <Tm_T> hoh
[10:55] <Tm_T> =)
[10:55] <nikkia> Blissex: i always found that you could tell dedicated VAXen/PDP system admins by 1) how much their total annnual license for the OS was, 2) how low a number their DECnet was :)
[10:56] <nikkia> we were on spur 8 with a vendor ID of 3, iirc
[10:56] <nikkia> (which means were were the 3rd UK company to sign up for DECnet :)
[11:39] <penguinboy> hey hey hey
[11:40] <penguinboy> anyone here?
[11:40] <Tm_T> never
[11:40] <penguinboy> lol
[11:40] <penguinboy> a question......games is not showing up in my K Menu.....how can I add it?
[11:41] <Tm_T> yeah, keep using "lol" and I'll stick it right back to your arse
[11:41] <penguinboy> oh yeah????
[11:41] <Caedmon> Got a bit of an issue.. When KDE started up, it said sound couldn't run because /dev/dsp didn't exist.. Any clue how I could fix this?
[11:42] <Tm_T> Caedmon: uhm, nice
[11:43] <penguinboy> wanna tackle the K Menu prob????
[11:44] <NigeyUK> penguinboy, what games?
[11:44] <penguinboy> a question......games is not showing up in my K Menu.....how can I add it?
[11:44] <penguinboy> the games catefory
[11:44] <NigeyUK> you installed the games package from kynaptic ?
[11:44] <penguinboy> like graphics, internet, multimedia, office, system
[11:45] <Tm_T> penguinboy: try kappfinder
[11:46] <penguinboy> thanks Tm_T....kappfinder worked great!!!
[11:47] <Caedmon> No ideas on why /dev/dsp doesn't exist, or how I could fix my sound issue?
[11:47] <Tm_T> np
[11:48] <NigeyUK> Caedmon, what soundcard ?
[11:49] <Caedmon> SB Audigy 2
[11:49] <NigeyUK> ah.. www.ubuntuforums.org theres a big sticky there related to the audigy 2
[11:51] <Caedmon> Aha