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| Burgundavia | rob^, join the club, I did the same thing with my old gpg key | 03:17 |
|---|---|---|
| rob^ | heh | 03:45 |
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| nickrud | anyone working tonight? | 04:11 |
| Madpilot | working? not really, just passing through | 04:12 |
| nickrud | hi Madpilot | 04:12 |
| Madpilot | hi nickrud | 04:12 |
| nickrud | I've actually begun to have some free time recently, so I've been rebuilding some of my old docs on the wiki | 04:13 |
| nickrud | The thing is, I'm also not sure just where the least effort will get the most results :) | 04:14 |
| Madpilot | You can always visit CategoryCleanup to see the pages most in need of help | 04:14 |
| nickrud | That's why I picked the voodoo thing as my learning page, it was in that list. It's a long one. | 04:15 |
| Madpilot | the whole laptop thing is going berzerk - most of the stuff in RecentChanges is laptops... cool | 04:16 |
| nickrud | don't have one of those. | 04:16 |
| Madpilot | I've sort of "adopted" the Apache pages, and BasicCommands | 04:16 |
| Madpilot | no, just a desktop here too | 04:16 |
| nickrud | I used BasicCommands for cleaning up the aptitude page. I'm also wondering about the style guide. | 04:17 |
| nickrud | and, of course, doc book. Is there a good book on that? | 04:17 |
| nickrud | paper. | 04:18 |
| Madpilot | no idea, I've barely skimmed the style guide myself, and never touched docbook | 04:18 |
| nickrud | One thing I've picked up while dabbling in debian is, patches are welcome, and just fixes might get done | 04:19 |
| nickrud | It's a reasonable attitude. | 04:19 |
| Madpilot | O'Reilly publish a "definitive guide to Doc Book", $36 USD though | 04:20 |
| Madpilot | http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/docbook/index.html | 04:20 |
| nickrud | let's see, $26 in '00, and $36 in '05: cheap docs | 04:21 |
| Madpilot | OReilly isn't cheap, but they're damn good. My (few) O'Reilly books are always in use... | 04:22 |
| nickrud | One, on bash. It's travelled a lot :) | 04:22 |
| Madpilot | my O'Reilly CSS book is my web design bible... | 04:23 |
| nickrud | That's what you do? | 04:24 |
| Madpilot | not professionally | 04:25 |
| Madpilot | semi-pro | 04:25 |
| Madpilot | I maintain a couple of relative's websites, and a bunch of my own | 04:25 |
| Madpilot | http://www.warbard.ca/ | 04:26 |
| nickrud | I know that place, I was there a while back. I got paid for fun. | 04:26 |
| Madpilot | yeah, I get paid to experiment with HTML/CSS. nice extra money | 04:26 |
| nickrud | back then, it was forth, believe it or don't. | 04:27 |
| Madpilot | cool. | 04:27 |
| Madpilot | maintaining my stepmother's small-business site is more like work, though. I didn't build it, and the code is really, really bad | 04:28 |
| Madpilot | 20+ nested tables per page, so any small change takes forever... :( | 04:28 |
| Madpilot | what were you programming in forth? | 04:29 |
| === nickrud kicks dan, who uses some winki-dink windows web page creator, which cannot accept clean html | ||
| Madpilot | hey, it's Frontpage, or whatever awful Whizzy editor was used on my stepmom's store site! <gag, retch, spit> | 04:30 |
| nickrud | www.usmisson.org. look at that. | 04:30 |
| === nickrud waits with resignation. | ||
| Madpilot | typo in that URL? get "no such server" here | 04:31 |
| nickrud | as usual | 04:31 |
| nickrud | www.usmission.org | 04:31 |
| Madpilot | wow, what a classic piece of 1997-98 web design! (sorry, but it's true!) | 04:33 |
| nickrud | yup | 04:34 |
| nickrud | you pinned it pretty well, i think. | 04:34 |
| Madpilot | the construction of the maps is sort of cool - absolutely-positioned divs to get the blinking gifs where they're needed | 04:34 |
| Madpilot | but those blinking gifs... are blinkin' awful... | 04:34 |
| nickrud | lol | 04:34 |
| Madpilot | ;) | 04:34 |
| nickrud | I *always* apologize when I point people at that. | 04:35 |
| Madpilot | heh | 04:35 |
| Madpilot | actually, as a method of constructing that sort of "imagemap" type thing, the absolutely positioned divs are a good idea | 04:36 |
| Madpilot | it just need a graphics cleanup, badly... | 04:36 |
| nickrud | yeah, it hasn't changed for a long time. | 04:36 |
| Madpilot | lots of websites around like that | 04:37 |
| Madpilot | great burst of enthusiasm at the start, then it gathers virtual dust | 04:37 |
| nickrud | It's work, I'll grant you that. | 04:37 |
| Madpilot | especially making graphics changes | 04:38 |
| nickrud | Getting that last thing right. | 04:38 |
| Madpilot | graphics are way, way more work than code | 04:38 |
| nickrud | if you mean creation, it's generally more than work, I think | 04:38 |
| nickrud | I use free graphics, me. | 04:39 |
| Madpilot | home graphics is 1/3rd artistry, 1/3 knowing your program (the GIMP or PS), and 1/3rd code work | 04:40 |
| nickrud | ok, it's 2/3's work :) | 04:40 |
| Madpilot | and 3x harder than just coding! | 04:41 |
| mpt | arrrrrhhhh | 04:41 |
| === mpt runs into a Java applet on usmission.org | ||
| nickrud | which one? | 04:41 |
| mpt | http://www.usmission.org/KansasCity.html | 04:41 |
| Madpilot | one oddity on that mission site is the mix of divs and tables - with no need for tables at all... | 04:41 |
| mpt | awww, it does a fancy fade effect | 04:42 |
| mpt | how cute | 04:42 |
| Madpilot | a fancy fade effect with really, really blurry graphics | 04:42 |
| nickrud | excuse me, I have to go load java. be back. | 04:42 |
| Madpilot | and then a huge chunk of text that's actually an image - that's not cool either... | 04:43 |
| mpt | heh | 04:43 |
| mpt | Anyone remember Corel Office for Java? | 04:43 |
| Madpilot | Corel what for where? ;) | 04:43 |
| mpt | It took about 10~15 minutes to start up | 04:44 |
| Madpilot | full Java apps can do that on slow machines... | 04:45 |
| rob^ | yep | 04:45 |
| Madpilot | we use a Java app at work - staff-side at the library - that is glacial to start, even on the new machines we've got | 04:46 |
| Madpilot | it's painful... | 04:46 |
| Madpilot | need food and drink - bbl | 04:47 |
| nickrud | I hope no one thinks I had anything to do with that site ;P | 04:48 |
| Madpilot | not your design work, then? ;) | 04:49 |
| nickrud | I couldn't even get the simple pages I wanted loaded onto the site, so no. | 04:50 |
| Madpilot | ah well | 04:51 |
| Madpilot | I finally talked my stepmother into letting me rebuild her business site this fall, so it'll be cleaner & faster, both to load and to update | 04:51 |
| nickrud | me, I talked the board into rebuilding my foundation. Now people won't trip. | 04:52 |
| rob^ | bbs | 04:52 |
| nickrud | One more time increment freed :) | 04:53 |
| nickrud | so, I guess I'll look around the cleanup category, and see what I see. | 04:54 |
| rob^ | grr@wget segfaulting | 05:49 |
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| klepas | !info gaim | 09:10 |
| klepas | wait | 09:10 |
| klepas | this is not the cli is it... :-P | 09:10 |
| Madpilot | ubotu doesn't hang out here, try the main channel! | 09:14 |
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| jsgotangco | /j | 05:23 |
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