=== dand [n=dand@83.103.205.136] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:17] rob^, join the club, I did the same thing with my old gpg key [03:45] heh === nickrud [n=aias@adsl-69-152-229-9.dsl.snantx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:11] anyone working tonight? [04:12] working? not really, just passing through [04:12] hi Madpilot [04:12] hi nickrud [04:13] I've actually begun to have some free time recently, so I've been rebuilding some of my old docs on the wiki [04:14] The thing is, I'm also not sure just where the least effort will get the most results :) [04:14] You can always visit CategoryCleanup to see the pages most in need of help [04:15] That's why I picked the voodoo thing as my learning page, it was in that list. It's a long one. [04:16] the whole laptop thing is going berzerk - most of the stuff in RecentChanges is laptops... cool [04:16] don't have one of those. [04:16] I've sort of "adopted" the Apache pages, and BasicCommands [04:16] no, just a desktop here too [04:17] I used BasicCommands for cleaning up the aptitude page. I'm also wondering about the style guide. [04:17] and, of course, doc book. Is there a good book on that? [04:18] paper. [04:18] no idea, I've barely skimmed the style guide myself, and never touched docbook [04:19] One thing I've picked up while dabbling in debian is, patches are welcome, and just fixes might get done [04:19] It's a reasonable attitude. [04:20] O'Reilly publish a "definitive guide to Doc Book", $36 USD though [04:20] http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/docbook/index.html [04:21] let's see, $26 in '00, and $36 in '05: cheap docs [04:22] OReilly isn't cheap, but they're damn good. My (few) O'Reilly books are always in use... [04:22] One, on bash. It's travelled a lot :) [04:23] my O'Reilly CSS book is my web design bible... [04:24] That's what you do? [04:25] not professionally [04:25] semi-pro [04:25] I maintain a couple of relative's websites, and a bunch of my own [04:26] http://www.warbard.ca/ [04:26] I know that place, I was there a while back. I got paid for fun. [04:26] yeah, I get paid to experiment with HTML/CSS. nice extra money [04:27] back then, it was forth, believe it or don't. [04:27] cool. [04:28] maintaining my stepmother's small-business site is more like work, though. I didn't build it, and the code is really, really bad [04:28] 20+ nested tables per page, so any small change takes forever... :( [04:29] what were you programming in forth? === nickrud kicks dan, who uses some winki-dink windows web page creator, which cannot accept clean html [04:30] hey, it's Frontpage, or whatever awful Whizzy editor was used on my stepmom's store site! [04:30] www.usmisson.org. look at that. === nickrud waits with resignation. [04:31] typo in that URL? get "no such server" here [04:31] as usual [04:31] www.usmission.org [04:33] wow, what a classic piece of 1997-98 web design! (sorry, but it's true!) [04:34] yup [04:34] you pinned it pretty well, i think. [04:34] the construction of the maps is sort of cool - absolutely-positioned divs to get the blinking gifs where they're needed [04:34] but those blinking gifs... are blinkin' awful... [04:34] lol [04:34] ;) [04:35] I *always* apologize when I point people at that. [04:35] heh [04:36] actually, as a method of constructing that sort of "imagemap" type thing, the absolutely positioned divs are a good idea [04:36] it just need a graphics cleanup, badly... [04:36] yeah, it hasn't changed for a long time. [04:37] lots of websites around like that [04:37] great burst of enthusiasm at the start, then it gathers virtual dust [04:37] It's work, I'll grant you that. [04:38] especially making graphics changes [04:38] Getting that last thing right. [04:38] graphics are way, way more work than code [04:38] if you mean creation, it's generally more than work, I think [04:39] I use free graphics, me. [04:40] home graphics is 1/3rd artistry, 1/3 knowing your program (the GIMP or PS), and 1/3rd code work [04:40] ok, it's 2/3's work :) [04:41] and 3x harder than just coding! [04:41] arrrrrhhhh === mpt runs into a Java applet on usmission.org [04:41] which one? [04:41] http://www.usmission.org/KansasCity.html [04:41] one oddity on that mission site is the mix of divs and tables - with no need for tables at all... [04:42] awww, it does a fancy fade effect [04:42] how cute [04:42] a fancy fade effect with really, really blurry graphics [04:42] excuse me, I have to go load java. be back. [04:43] and then a huge chunk of text that's actually an image - that's not cool either... [04:43] heh [04:43] Anyone remember Corel Office for Java? [04:43] Corel what for where? ;) [04:44] It took about 10~15 minutes to start up [04:45] full Java apps can do that on slow machines... [04:45] yep [04:46] we use a Java app at work - staff-side at the library - that is glacial to start, even on the new machines we've got [04:46] it's painful... [04:47] need food and drink - bbl [04:48] I hope no one thinks I had anything to do with that site ;P [04:49] not your design work, then? ;) [04:50] I couldn't even get the simple pages I wanted loaded onto the site, so no. [04:51] ah well [04:51] I finally talked my stepmother into letting me rebuild her business site this fall, so it'll be cleaner & faster, both to load and to update [04:52] me, I talked the board into rebuilding my foundation. Now people won't trip. [04:52] bbs [04:53] One more time increment freed :) [04:54] so, I guess I'll look around the cleanup category, and see what I see. 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