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[12:12] <Keybuk>          _    _ ___ ___ _
[12:12] <Keybuk>  ___ ___| |__/ |_  | _ ) |
[12:12] <Keybuk> (_-</ -_) '_ \ |/ // _ \_|
[12:12] <Keybuk> /__/\___|_.__/_/___\___(_)
[12:12] <Keybuk> METACITY KEEPS CRASHING
[12:13] <Lathiat> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14145
[12:13] <Lathiat> also
[12:13] <Lathiat> i doubt ghe has figlet on notify :)
[12:13] <slomo> Keybuk: same here... but nothing to get crazy about :P
[12:13] <Keybuk> no, but it makes me feel better
[12:13] <crispin> yeah, I see that too, I don't understand why a rebuild fixes (mostly?) though
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[12:14] <lllmanulll> Keybuk, Hey, seb128 is on holiday for a few days :)
[12:14] <Keybuk> I know
[12:14] <gratuit> I'm using breezy, and I'm noticing sevral bugs, how should I go about reporting them?
[12:15] <lllmanulll> Keybuk, should come back some time wednesday
[12:15] <lllmanulll> Keybuk, oh, all right :)
[12:15] <Keybuk> like I said, it just makes me feel better <g>
[12:15] <Keybuk> I'm on holiday too
[12:15] <lllmanulll> Keybuk, But never far away from keyboard :)
[12:17] <lllmanulll> gratuit, use https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/  but make sure that what you are going to report aren't know bugs
[12:17] <JanC> gratuit: bugzilla for things in main/restricted, malon for things in universe/multiverse
[12:17] <JanC> s/malon/malone/
[12:17] <gratuit> lllmanulll: yeah I just found it, I'm looking at the bug I was going to report now
[12:18] <lllmanulll> gratuit, Good, if you have anything else to add, you can post a comment
[12:18] <lllmanulll> gratuit, Otherwise, just be patient and it will hopefully get fixed
[12:19] <JanC> hm, how does a metacity crash look like ?  :)
[12:19] <HiddenWolf> if seb128 is on a holiday for a few days, can someone else check out why the hell rhythmbox won't start?
[12:19] <HiddenWolf> it crashes without error almost immediatly.
[12:19] <gratuit> JanC: what is malone?
[12:20] <JanC> https://launchpad.net/malone
[12:20] <HiddenWolf> gratuit, bugzilla but better. under development and used for universe/multiverse bugs already.
[12:25] <Keybuk> JanC: all your windows lose decoration, gain them again, and jump down and across slightly
[12:25] <mpt_> I'm installing Colony 3 right now and noticing lots of places where the text could be better. Is this worth bothering with at this point of the development, or is Breezy+1 much more likely to have a graphical installer?
[12:26] <jdub> mpt_: breezy+1 may have the livecd based installer
[12:26] <jdub> mpt_: worth noting down improvements though, but not sure if they'll get in (translations to worry about)
[12:27] <mpt_> yeah
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[12:27] <mpt_> ah, Breezy doesn't restart this laptop either
[12:28] <mjg59> mpt_: It fails in both Breezy and Hoary?
[12:28] <mpt_> yes
[12:29] <mpt_> but then, this is only second-stage installation, is that too early to tell?
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[12:29] <mjg59> mpt_: What hardware is it?
[12:29] <mpt_> mjg59: Toshiba Satellite, circa 2001 vintage
[12:29] <mjg59> Ah, right
[12:30] <mpt_> I'm sorry I never reported a bug earlier, no excuse really
[12:31] <mpt_> The most aggravating problem, though, is that the installer asked for my WEP key when this wireless network uses WPA
[12:31] <mjg59> We have no sensible WPA support yet
[12:32] <mjg59> No...
[12:32] <mjg59> Argh. Wrong window.
=== mpt_ wonders what his roommates are using, then :-)
[12:33] <mjg59> You can set it up manually in an awkward way
[12:33] <mjg59> But driver support is poor and the userspace tools are miserable
[12:34] <mpt_> UbzSpec!
[12:36] <mpt_> thanks for the info mjg59
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[01:03] <jdub> mpt: NM may get wpa support in breezy+1 timeframe.
[01:03] <jordi> jdub: J! D! U! B!
[01:03] <jordi> any news? :)
[01:03] <jdub> i kinda wanted to catch up with seb, carlos and koke
[01:03] <jordi> how's NM for Debian/Ubuntu coming along? Is it usable?
[01:04] <jdub> j^'s packages are pretty rad
[01:04] <jdub> hopefully we'll get them into universe for breezy
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[01:05] <Lathiat> if im using network manager
[01:05] <Lathiat> should i take the hotplug mapping out of interface
[01:05] <jdub> dunno
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[01:43] <Maynoth> hey can you guys help a noob
[01:43] <Maynoth> why is there no control panel applet to install/unistall programs?
[01:43] <Maynoth> why is there no control panel applet to install new drivers
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[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> Maynoth: because any drivers that are easy to install are already installed
[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> and that's not the way it works
[01:45] <HrdwrBoB> to install/uninstall programs/etc use the synaptic package manager
[01:45] <HrdwrBoB> under system->administration
[01:45] <Maynoth> do you guys think it will ever have a nice gui applet to install/unistall drivers and software
[01:47] <Maynoth> I really think more people would switch if that was an option
[01:47] <HrdwrBoB> Maynoth: there is a nice app installer
[01:47] <HrdwrBoB> and it's the default in breezy
[01:48] <HrdwrBoB> drivers are an entirely different kettle of fish
[01:48] <Maynoth> so the next version is going to have a better installer?
[01:48] <Maynoth> will it have options to unistall programs too?
[01:48] <HrdwrBoB> gnome-app-install
[01:48] <HrdwrBoB> it's in hoary too
[01:48] <HrdwrBoB> check it out
[01:49] <HrdwrBoB> anyway, this is the wrong channel for that, it's still #ubuntu stuff
[01:51] <Maynoth> they told me to get out
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[01:51] <Maynoth> :(
[01:52] <Maynoth> what new features is breezy going to have?
[01:52] <HrdwrBoB> Maynoth: have a look at the wiki, again, this is not talk for here
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[01:55] <mjg59> Ok, I've found the usplash problem
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[01:55] <jdub> there was a problem?
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[02:13] <mjg59> jdub: It breaks hibernate at the moment
[02:13] <mjg59> For a really subtle reason
[02:14] <mjg59> Of course, my current fix is a kernel patch...
[02:17] <jdub> d'oh
[02:17] <luis_> mjg59: man without fear.
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[02:28] <mjg59> I remove one line
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[02:28] <mjg59> I merely charge you $500 for knowing which one line to remove
[02:28] <luis_> man.
[02:28] <mjg59> Why must ftp.ubuntu.com be down? Why must Unix be so mean?
[02:29] <luis_> consulting truly is the way to go.
[02:29] <mjg59> luis_: Once I'm through this PhD, it's sorely tempting
[02:29] <mpt> So, that's what Breezy looks like
[02:29] <mpt> ... like Hoary
[02:29] <mjg59> mpt: Pretty much
[02:29] <mpt> What happened to those awesome new icons?
[02:29] <mjg59> Artwork isn't finished yet
=== mjg59 says, waiting for some Usplash pictographic love
=== mpt restarts to see the usplash
[02:30] <mpt> So gksudo alerts dim the rest of the screen now
[02:30] <tseng> its a non-event
[02:30] <mpt> that's a bit ... strange
[02:31] <mjg59> mpt: Nobody has ever offered me money to draw stuff.
[02:31] <mjg59> Usplash's current state represents that quite well :)
[02:31] <mpt> hey, radio buttons are black now
[02:31] <mpt> that's a change
[02:31] <daniels> mpt: if you accept that gksudo's going to grab your keyboard, it seems a little unintuitive to show the rest of the screen as if you can nusefully interact with it
[02:32] <mjg59> Oh, hmm.
=== mjg59 watches his machine fall over on hibernate
[02:32] <mjg59> Of course, this is running ndiswrapper and similar crack
[02:32] <mpt> daniels: If anything, I'd expect that to make the controls in every other window look insensitive, or at least (as an approximation) reduce their contrast
[02:33] <mpt> rather than making them darker
[02:33] <daniels> mpt: so ... every window still looks like it's activatable, but even if you do activate them, everything will be insensitive
[02:33] <mpt> Including the title bars, daniels :-)
[02:33] <daniels> mpt: gksudo is, right now, display-modal
[02:34] <mpt> Other major operating systems have display-modal dialogs, and (with the exception of the Shut Down dialog in Windows) they don't make the screen darker
[02:34] <mjg59> mpt: It's consistent with, say, the typing break lock
[02:35] <sladen> mjg59: are you using the Libretto at the moment with ndiswrapper?
[02:35] <mjg59> sladen: Nope
[02:35] <mjg59> sladen: I'm testing on an HP that has a keyboard big enough for me to type on
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[02:35] <mpt> ok, enough whining on my part, perhaps I can do something useful
[02:36] <daniels> must ... resist ... joke ...
[02:36] <mpt> mjg59: Is there a convenient wiki page or mailing list post describing the exact requirements for the usplash pictographic love?
[02:36] <mjg59> mpt: jdub has a spec that he's supposed to have passed on
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[02:38] <jdub> mjg59: the bug described it
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[02:38] <jdub> mjg59: i just told cliff what to do
[02:38] <mjg59> jdub: Rock
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[02:39] <mjg59> Incidentally, Breezy seems *much* better at suspend to disk
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[02:41] <bob2> and faster?
[02:42] <mpt> jdub: Does that mean it's being done already?
[02:42] <jdub> yeah
[02:43] <mjg59> Faster, yup
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[03:13] <jdub> mjg59: actually, ready for an image to play with? :)
[03:21] <jdub> mjg59: i just tested that image, it looks horrendous
[03:22] <jdub> mjg59: i think there's something funny going on with the xpm conversion
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[04:13] <tgall> hey ya jdub
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[04:39] <daniels> holy shit suse are nuts
[04:39] <daniels> they appear to have backported exa and pretty much the entirety of all the drivers
[04:39] <bob2> haha
[04:39] <tgall> heh
[04:39] <daniels> why they don't package 6.8.99.x rather than patch 6.8.2 to buggery is beyond me
[04:39] <lu|away> because they have a version freeze
[04:39] <daniels> jdub: please grab http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/pc_pcibus.diff and apply, see if that helps
[04:39] <lu|away> they have this bizarre notion of version freeze
[04:40] <bob2> haha
[04:40] <daniels> that's complete bullshit
[04:40] <daniels> they've backported r300 DRI
[04:40] <lu|away> where they can backport basically the whole damn thing of the next version, as long as the original tarball stays the same
[04:40] <daniels> and i915 DRI
[04:40] <bob2> "backport whatever, just don't BUMP THE VERSION"
[04:40] <lu|away> bob2: yup
[04:40] <daniels> if you're not going to respect version freeze, then don't respect version freeze
[04:40] <daniels> hmm
[04:40] <daniels> however, they still only have 225,000 lines of patches
[04:40] <daniels> we were up to about 280 at one point
[04:41] <tgall> well some people have weird ideas of "fun"
=== lu|away blinks
[04:41] <lu|away> 280_K_ lines of patches?
[04:41] <daniels> hold on
[04:42] <daniels> i swear the original tarball must have changed
[04:42] <daniels> they're patching exaPriv.h, which was most certainly *not* in 6.8.2
[04:42] <daniels> lu|away: yeah
=== lu|away puts X on my list of 'seriously broken projects'
[04:44] <daniels> oh, cute
[04:44] <daniels> they have an arseton of new files
[04:44] <daniels> in .tar.bz2
[04:45] <daniels> ADDING ORIGINAL TARBALLS == NOT FROZEN
[04:46] <bob2> maybe they have their own rpm dbs
[04:46] <bob2> that'd rock
[04:50] <caldwell_> any idea why i get this error when i build Xorg?  make[3] : *** No rule to make target `../../extras/rman/rman.c', needed by `rman.c'.  Stop.
[04:50] <caldwell_> or how to fix it?
[04:53] <daniels> caldwell_: ... try #xorg, maybe?
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[05:24] <wasabi_> Wow. This SATA DVD-drive I have simply doesn't appear in Ubuntu.
[05:25] <Lathiat> yeh sata cdroms are rather uneventful
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[05:30] <wasabi_> Not sure how to make it show up.
[05:38] <fabbione> morning
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[06:54] <pitti> Good morning
[06:54] <daniels> morning pitti
[06:55] <fabbione> hey pitti
[06:55] <pitti> Hi Daniel, hi Fabio
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[07:00] <pitti> hehe, SuSE wants to use pmount :-)
[07:00] <Lathiat> but submount is so cool
[07:01] <pitti> I used it the other day, right, it's nice
[07:01] <pitti> but needs to be configured for devices
[07:01] <pitti> so I guess SuSE is doing automatic conf file rewriting
[07:01] <Lathiat> eh i was joking anyway
[07:01] <Lathiat> pitti: heh
[07:02] <Lathiat> pitti: using their standard configuration & management system
[07:02] <pitti> but they autotool'ized my pmount and want me to adopt it *sigh*
[07:02] <Lathiat> no doubt :)
=== pitti hates autotools
[07:09] <jdub> pitti: hrm, so, can you check out avahi sometime when you have a moment?
[07:09] <jdub> pitti: for security and sanity - let Lathiat know what you think? :)
[07:10] <pitti> jdub: avahi?
[07:10] <Lathiat> pitti: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
[07:10] <pitti> oh, howl take 2?
[07:10] <rob^> elmo, ping
[07:10] <Lathiat> pitti: you could say that
[07:11] <Lathiat> pitti: nothing to do with howl other than sharing the same spec, however
[07:11] <pitti> jdub, Lathiat: but none of this is breezy stuff, I presume?
[07:11] <Lathiat> not for main
[07:13] <pitti> jdub: are you the right person for #13328?
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[07:29] <rob^> is dbus working in breezy today?
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[07:36] <Burgundavia> jdub, what is the saga with add/remove programs. Is it now not going to be a the root of Applciations?
[07:42] <rob^> I mentioned it in the FAQ Guide for Breezy, but due to the fact it can't install a lot of things I used Synaptic when writing it
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[08:09] <sivang> morning all
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[08:10] <rob^> In Breezy I went to System -> Administration -> Networking, changed my hostname, rebooted, my window borders are all screwed up (they are all green). b.u.c?
[08:15] <siretart> morning
[08:15] <siretart> bob2: around?
[08:16] <siretart> bob2: can you at least tell me the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz you will be using for lyx? I'd upload then a -0ubuntu1 version, which can be synced over by your package...
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[08:18] <rob^> grr
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[08:44] <dholbach> good morning
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[08:58] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[08:58] <dholbach> hey pitti :)
[08:59] <pitti> argh, can someone please stop these /msg spam?
[08:59] <Treenaks> pitti: /mode +E
[08:59] <Treenaks> uh
[08:59] <Treenaks>  /umode +E
[08:59] <pitti> that means?
=== pitti googles
[09:00] <pitti> thanks
[09:00] <dholbach> pitti: according to GermanTeam you seem to have new ubuntu fans in dresden :)
[09:00] <Treenaks> pitti: usermode +E means only identified users can msg or something
[09:00] <pitti> dholbach: some folks from LinuxInfoTag already asked me for coming
[09:01] <dholbach> oh cool
[09:01] <Treenaks> pitti: read lilo's cruft in the message window
[09:01] <pitti> dholbach: unfortunately I will be at UBZ at that time
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[09:01] <pitti> Thanks Treenaks 
[09:02] <dholbach> pitti: next time then :)
[09:03] <dhonn> 2.6.13 is out.  will ubuntu 5.10 ship it?
[09:03] <pitti> dhonn: no
[09:04] <pitti> dhonn: the kernel will only receive stabilization and security fixes
[09:05] <pvanhoof> On my breezy, /dev/hdc (cdrom/dvd) device isn't readable for the desktop users
[09:05] <pvanhoof> how can I fix this? (workaround, a better one than doing chmod 777 /dev/hdc)
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[09:06] <dholbach> good morning mvo
[09:07] <dhonn> 5.10 is going to ship gnome 2.12, is that even stable?
[09:07] <dholbach> pvanhoof: add them to group "cdrom"?
[09:07] <Treenaks> dhonn: yes
[09:09] <pitti> dhonn: that's a particular exception we do; it will be stable at the time we ship preview
[09:12] <doko_> good morning
[09:12] <dholbach> doko: good morning!
[09:12] <dholbach> doko: is your cold any better?
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[09:12] <mvo> hey dholbach, morning all
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[09:13] <doko> yep, the drugs did help lowering the temperature
[09:13] <dholbach> super
[09:14] <sivang> morning dholbach 
[09:14] <pitti> daniels: do you plan to upload a new dbus shortly?
[09:14] <dholbach> hi sivan :)
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[09:15] <Treenaks> sivang: are you coming to BelowZero?
[09:16] <pitti> daniels: (for #14178)
[09:16] <pitti> daniels: if you don't have pending changes, I can do it myself
[09:17] <daniels> pitti: if it's not crucial to fix (i.e. you can wait about 18h), wait for me to upload 0.36.1
[09:18] <daniels> pitti: i got uvf-exception approval from mdz
[09:18] <pitti> daniels: oh, ok
[09:18] <pitti> daniels: that's fine; I reassign the bug to you then?
[09:18] <daniels> pitti: sure
[09:20] <mvo> elmo: please sync scite from debian
[09:22] <pitti> elmo: simpleproxy sync, please
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[09:24] <zyga> mvo: hello
[09:25] <mvo> zyga: hi
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[09:44] <pitti> infinity: btw, ok to upload the new pkgstripgranslations?
[09:47] <infinity> pitti : Oh, yes, the changes have been rolled out on the buildds for a while, let 'er rip.
[09:48] <infinity> pitti L They should just magically switch over to using the new format when it shows up.
[09:48] <infinity> pitti : In theory.
[09:48] <infinity> pitti : We'll see. :)
[09:48] <pitti> ok, thanks :-)
[09:49] <pitti> infinity: btw, rather than taking the biggest one, the more scientific method would be to take the union of all
[09:49] <pitti> infinity: so, in theory, if there are per-arch domains, we get them all
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[09:49] <pitti> (that would be incredibly crackful, though, and probably never happens anyway)
[09:50] <infinity> Well, what we're doing right now is just taking all of them. :)
[09:50] <infinity> Where to go from here is up to you guys.
[09:50] <pitti> infinity: I mean for import into langpack-o-matic and Rosetta; so far I only took one random arch
[09:51] <infinity> (In fact, you and the rosetta guys should probably look at the lamont's scripts and move those to a more service-centric location, doing what you want them to do)
[09:51] <infinity> There's more than enough things running out of ~lamont on various machines that don't have to be. :)
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[09:53] <pitti> infinity: well, in fact we could move it to /srv/langpacks... on rosetta and the import could just download the tarballs from *.buildd directly
[09:54] <pitti> infinity: then I could export the merged tarballs over http for rosetta import
[09:54] <pitti> infinity: so you didn't change lamont's scripts? (i. e. you didn't need to?)
[09:58] <infinity> pitti : AFAICT, I don't need to.  We'll see if I'm terribly wrong about that in a little while.
[09:58] <infinity> (If I am, it's no big deal, since we don't lose any data, as the originals all sit on the buildds, not rookery)
[09:59] <infinity> pitti : But yes, if you want to import directly from the buildds, I have no issues with that.  The middle-man appears to only exist for the sake of turning 4 langpakcs into 1, which we seem to no longer want (or, at least, we don't want it without first comparing them)
[10:00] <pitti> infinity: right, so we could get rid of ~lamont and that superfluous copy step in one shot
[10:00] <infinity> pitti : Adding some more smarts to the import process is The Right Direction to go anyway, since if we add uploading of langpacks to DAK, it's not going to do the sorting for you, it's going to need one per arch (as we have now)
[10:01] <pitti> EPARSE
[10:01] <pitti> well, more like, I didn't understand that
[10:01] <infinity> We don't want to make katie do the 4->1 langpack thing.  We just want katie to accept the files and give them to you.
[10:01] <pitti> infinity: ah, that one, right
[10:01] <infinity> So you need the 4 unique filenames, and you need to have your own import intelligence to deal with them.
[10:01] <pitti> yes, makes sense
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[10:04] <dholbach> hellas infinity
[10:08] <infinity> dholbach : Yo.
[10:08] <dholbach> :)
[10:10] <infinity> dholbach : Do have any overwhelming urge to smack the Debian XFCE maintainers around for doing something really dumb?
[10:11] <dholbach> infinity: jani and crimsun are our MOTUs taking care of xfce
[10:11] <infinity> dholbach : xfce4-mcs-manager-dev depends on libxfce4mcs-dev (>= ${Source-Version}), but they're not built from the same source.  So, stuff breaks horribly if they aren't always uploaded together, even if you're only fixing a bug in one.
[10:11] <dholbach> infinity: i'll write them a mail
[10:11] <infinity> dholbach : Forward this to them, then. :)
[10:11] <dholbach> will do
[10:12] <infinity> dholbach : It's a simple hack to add something that detects "Upstream-Version" in debian/rules, then fills that in for .substvars, which is probably what the Debian guys wanted.
[10:12] <infinity> dholbach : Cause having the exact debian revisions tightly bound like that is just... Wrong.
[10:12] <infinity> </rant>
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[10:13] <siretart> infinity: same issue to moagg and moagg-date, btw
[10:13] <pitti> Hi sjoerd 
[10:13] <siretart> s/date/data/
[10:13] <sjoerd> pitti: mornig
[10:14] <infinity> siretart : Please fix it and file a bug with Debian with a patch.  Pretty please.  Having packages split like that when they all have to be updated together ANYWAY is so obviously pointless.
[10:14] <infinity> siretart : dpkg-parsechangelog -> echo "Upstream-Version=<whatever>" foo.substvars -> use "Upstream-Version" in debian/control instead of Source-Version.
[10:15] <infinity> siretart : Fairly simple to hack up correctly.
[10:15] <daniels> infinity: errr
[10:15] <daniels> infinity: just pass -VUpstream-Version=$(UPSTREAM_VERSION) to dh_gencontrol
[10:15] <infinity> daniels : I skipped some steps, I assume siretart's smart enough to get there.
[10:15] <infinity> daniels : <shrug>... Either one works.
[10:15] <siretart> infinity: I'm currently at work, so I cannot doi it right now. Will put it on my list. 
[10:15] <siretart> infinity: I'm honoured :)
[10:16] <infinity> daniels : Same end effect.
[10:16] <sjoerd> pitti: do you know why dbus-sessionbus-checkuid.patch was dropped from the ubuntu dbus package, couldn't find that in the changelog..
[10:16] <pitti> sjoerd: no idea, please ask daniels
[10:16] <sjoerd> daniels: ? :)
[10:16] <daniels> sjoerd: hullo :)
[10:16] <pitti> sjoerd: AFAIR that was backported from stable
[10:16] <daniels> sjoerd: i guess you mean the gid-hecking stuff?
[10:17] <daniels> sjoerd: if it was gid-checking, the entire codepath got dropped upstream
[10:17] <sjoerd> it's the patch that prevents other users to connect to your session bus
[10:17] <sjoerd> added in 0.34-1ubuntu4
[10:18] <sjoerd> daniels: it still applies in 0.36.1 so, i doubt that codepath was dropped
[10:19] <dholbach> infinity: there's even a motuxfce team in malone :)
[10:19] <dholbach> infinity: but i wrote the mail alread
[10:19] <mvo> ping jdub 
[10:19] <infinity> dholbach : Fancy, thanks.
[10:19] <infinity> dholbach : Just ran accross that while clearing up cairo/glitz issues and it irked me. :)
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[10:19] <daniels> sjoerd: oh.  the checkuid thing was fixed upstream already.  unless something's gone horribly wrong.
[10:19] <dholbach> infinity: you ROCK! :)
[10:20] <sjoerd> daniels: maybe it was fixed in some other way then.. because the patch still applied cleanly
=== daniels stares at session.conf and frowns.
[10:21] <daniels> sjoerd: thanks, good catch.  i'll check into it now.
[10:21] <daniels> sjoerd: btw, I'm doing 0.36.1 packages.  time to move 0.3x to sid?
[10:21] <sjoerd> daniels: haha, no way
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[10:21] <sjoerd> daniels: oh, did you see my 0.36.1 package for debian :)
[10:21] <sjoerd> daniels: we're gonna move to 0.3x at the same time with gnome 2.12 probably..
[10:22] <daniels> oh *dear*.
[10:22] <daniels> oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
[10:23] <daniels> joey only applied the patch to 0.2x's branch.
[10:23] <sjoerd> woops
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[10:23] <daniels> sjoerd: are your .36.1 packages in experimental?
[10:23] <sjoerd> daniels: yes
[10:24] <sjoerd> well incoming atm maybe
[10:24] <sjoerd> got the mail that it came out of new this morning, so probably still incoming
[10:24] <sjoerd> the debian dir is also in pkg-utopia svn btw
[10:25] <infinity> Yupm there it is in ACCEPTED.
[10:25] <pitti> Hi carlos 
[10:25] <carlos> pitti, hi
[10:27] <daniels> sjoerd: i've hit upstream about it, too.  thanks a lot for the catch.
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[10:28] <pitti> sjoerd: did you use lsb init scripts in experimental?
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[10:28] <sjoerd> pitti: yup
[10:29] <pitti> daniels: ok, then it almost seems that we can just sync from experimental?
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[10:31] <sjoerd> gotta go, class in 15 min.. later 
[10:33] <daniels> oh, okay
[10:33] <daniels> pitti: i'll look at the interdiff, but it's tomorrow
[10:33] <daniels> pitti: i need to have an xorg upload done today
[10:33] <pitti> daniels: sure, no hurry; just a general question :-) thansk
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[10:40] <daniels> pitti: cool
[10:40] <daniels> sjoerd: later on -- thanks
[10:42] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync gaim-irchelper and glademm from sid and remove glademm from the blacklist - seems upstream works on it again and users want it
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[11:01] <pitti> Hi jdthood 
[11:01] <jdthood> hoi
[11:03] <zyga> how do I correctly describe launchpad bug?
[11:04] <zyga> the 'system error' page is quite lacking on details
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[11:06] <mdke> zyga, just tell them what you do and what happens, they can look in the logs
[11:07] <zyga> mdke: ok, I did that
[11:07] <mdke> zyga, you can also see if anyone is around to help in #launchpad
[11:07] <zyga> good idea, thanks
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[11:31] <dholbach> see you all later again *wave*
[11:41] <siretart> cu dholbach 
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[11:48] <spayne> i think there is an issue with hotplug/modprobe and ndiswrapper
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[11:48] <spayne> it looks as if it isn't loaded the ndiswrapper.ko module on boot
[11:48] <spayne> so the startup locks upon "Loading Modules..."
[11:50] <sivang> jdub: so, already knows how to crete the boot images , all lfet is just to put this into CONF.sh of our debian cd
[11:50] <sivang> jdub: (tgall knows, that is)
[11:51] <Treenaks> spayne: Please file a bug, instead of complaining here
[11:52] <azeem> http://www.murrayc.com/blog/tech/2005-08-29-11-30
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[11:54] <daniels> argh
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[11:54] <daniels> when do we get an oo.o2-amd64 update?
[11:54] <Treenaks> azeem: he's right
[11:54] <daniels> ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable on amd64 atm
[11:55] <spayne> Treenaks: i did two weeks ago and nothing has happened
[11:55] <Treenaks> spayne: that doesn't mean nothing will happen eventually
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[11:57] <spayne> eventually?
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[11:57] <spayne> breezy is out in a month
[11:57] <Treenaks> spayne: yes.. guess what we do just before release?
[11:57] <spayne> Bug Day?
[11:58] <Treenaks> spayne: more like a bug month:)
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[12:16] <pef> hi
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[12:34] <pvanhoof> Is making bugzilla.ubuntu.com slow a way to make sure we don't submit a lot bugs?
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[12:35] <pvanhoof> sometimes it's awfully slow
[12:35] <Lathiat> pvanhoof: heh try viwing the page source for the enter bug page
[12:36] <pvanhoof> ubuntu bugzilla devs: try making sure it loads fast. It's not that the enter bug page really has to be complicated or huge
[12:36] <pvanhoof> omg. it loads ALL components in some EMBEDDED java script
[12:37] <Lathiat> yuh
[12:37] <pvanhoof> people get shot for that at my company
[12:37] <pvanhoof> they just bypass any justice system here .. they get immediatly shot
[12:37] <pvanhoof> in the head, and if not dead .. shot again
[12:37] <Lathiat> what if theyre still not dead?
[12:38] <pvanhoof> then .. they get the chance to correct it .. (with the brains they have left)
[12:39] <pvanhoof> they could at least try to consider ajax if they really want to do it that way 
[12:39] <pvanhoof> and if ajax is to hard .. put it in a .js file
[12:39] <pvanhoof> that way it'll be cached between different pageviews
[12:39] <pvanhoof> *sigh* .. so far for "intelligent" opensource developers at ubuntu's web services
[12:41] <daniels> no work has gone into bugzilla for ages
[12:41] <daniels> it's all about malone
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[12:41] <daniels> so judging launchpad based on how bz's been mangled is rather unfair
[12:42] <pvanhoof> and they should remove the fact that the "Package" textbox is required. Not a single normal user "knows" how to use that
[12:42] <pvanhoof> daniels, it's not about being unfair. For MOST people (with internet connections of today), it's simply unusable this way
[12:43] <daniels> ah, that's where all my multiseat uploads have gone
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[12:44] <daniels> pvanhoof: i know it's shit, dude
[12:44] <daniels> pvanhoof: i spent months bitching about this while I was on dialup
[12:44] <pvanhoof> :(
[12:44] <daniels> pvanhoof: but saying 'ubuntu's web service team sucks, look at bugzilla' is really, really unfair.
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[12:45] <pvanhoof> I'm not saying they suck. I said they made a very unintelligent decision when they decided to put all components in an embedded javascript
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[12:46] <daniels> pvanhoof: that was not the launchpad team.
[12:47] <j^> that should be ajax as used on http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1&hl=en
[12:47] <daniels> pvanhoof: entirely separately to launchpad, we used to have a bugzilla maintainer.  back then, he made the decision to do the javascript thing.  he was not ever a part of the launchpad team.  entirely unrelated.
[12:47] <pvanhoof> ok
[12:47] <pvanhoof> never said that "launchpad" did this
[12:47] <daniels> j^: i'm sure patches would be welcome.  do it against the bugzilla codebase, submit it upstream, and everyone wins.
[12:48] <daniels> pvanhoof: ubuntu has nothing else to do with a web services team.
[12:48] <pvanhoof> daniels, for a user of the system, it doesn't matter "who" did it
[12:48] <pvanhoof> or "how" the team is called
[12:48] <pvanhoof> the fact is .. it doesn't work
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[12:49] <pvanhoof> it takes ages to submit a bug because of that component list .. which is a stupid feature anyway
[12:49] <pvanhoof> not a single mortal normal user will submit bugs .. I thought ubuntu was about Humanity to others .. or.. creating a system that is usable for everybody. Including bug reporting
[12:50] <pvanhoof> or is bug reporting only for the elite who have great internet connections?
[12:50] <daniels> pvanhoof: i know it's crap, but you're not being at all helpful here.
[12:51] <daniels> pvanhoof: malone is fine for reporting bugs, and bugzilla has been slated for imminent death for, oh, about a year now.
[12:51] <j^> pvanhoof and do you think this is the biggest problem to fix in ubuntu right now, or is it a minor glich?
[12:51] <daniels> pvanhoof: if you want to actually be productive, try using malone and report bugs on it.
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[12:51] <pvanhoof> maline.ubuntu.org ?
[12:51] <pvanhoof> malone.ubuntu.org ..
[12:52] <j^> https://launchpad.net/
[12:52] <daniels> http://www.launchpad.net/malone/
[12:52] <pvanhoof> j^, problems can be solved in parallel. It's not because this isn't the biggest problem .. that it's unimportant or to be queued 
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[12:53] <daniels> pvanhoof: try not having a bugzilla maintainer.  anyway, as I said, if you want to be useful rather than just randomly bitching on IRC, try either doing the AJAX stuff against upstream Bugzilla, or filing bugs against Malone.
[12:54] <HiddenWolf>  /umode +CE
[12:54] <j^> pvanhoof never said that, but you made it sound as if this was not fixed ubuntu would not be "a system that is usable for everybody"
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[12:55] <pvanhoof> j^, Well, if ubuntu wants to be usable for everybody, I think you guys should make that Malone thing the default for bugreporting
[12:55] <pvanhoof> or fix that bugzilla flaw
[12:55] <pvanhoof> because the default for bug reporting is not usable at this moment
[12:56] <pvanhoof> I'd like to close the discussion
[12:56] <j^> pvanhoof thats the plan, but it might take some more time
[12:56] <daniels> pvanhoof: the plan is to move to Malone
[12:56] <pvanhoof> that is good
[12:56] <daniels> pvanhoof: closing the discussion is a good idea, since it hasn't achieved anything.
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[01:02] <hunger> Hi there.
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[01:03] <HiddenWolf> pitti: ping?
[01:04] <HiddenWolf> daniels: nvidia drivers don't work for me, but I guess I'm not the only one? (6600GT, using nvidia driver sends my monitor to sleep mode)
[01:05] <HrdwrBoB> HiddenWolf: do you have enough power?
[01:05] <daniels> HiddenWolf: uhm, I dunno.  ask nvidia?
[01:05] <HrdwrBoB> AGP 6600GT?
[01:05] <HiddenWolf> HrdwrBoB, I'd say so. it's pci-express.
[01:05] <HrdwrBoB> ah, that should be ok, I've just ahd a few issues with my agp 6600gt
[01:06] <HiddenWolf> daniels, you mean they'd actually care about a bug report @ nvidia? ;)
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[01:07] <pitti> HiddenWolf: pong
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[01:08] <hunger> pitti: Did you look into my cryptodisk script yet?
[01:08] <HiddenWolf> pitti: #14226, anything else you need?
[01:09] <pitti> hunger: no, sorry, but we are in feature freeze for some weeks anyway
[01:09] <pitti> HiddenWolf: just saw your bug reply
[01:10] <daniels> HiddenWolf: i dunno
[01:10] <pitti> HiddenWolf: so you installed from scratch? without any dist-upgrade?
[01:10] <pitti> HiddenWolf: I'm currently installing the i386 daily, I will look at it
[01:10] <pitti> HiddenWolf: might very well be that udev doesn't ship the file any more (we had a similar bug recently)
[01:11] <HiddenWolf> I filed the bug installing a 28aug daily from scratch on a brand new harddisk even. Then I tried mounting an audio cd, and cdplayer told me I didn't have permissions to read the disk.
[01:12] <HiddenWolf> I since reverted to colony3, and dist-upgraded from there, which fixed a load of crap for me.
[01:12] <zyga> when are translations frozen?
[01:12] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, then I guess some udev update just dropped the file
[01:12] <HiddenWolf> zyga, sept1 is string freeze, translations will be updated throughout the release probably?
[01:13] <zyga> HiddenWolf: they are? I never noticed any updated translations
[01:13] <pitti> zyga: there have been several language pack updates recently
[01:14] <HiddenWolf> *argh!*
[01:14] <HiddenWolf> I spent an hour or so getting my tvtuner to work yesterday, and now after a reboot, I don't have sound again.
[01:14] <zyga> pitti: are they in any special repo? 
[01:14] <pitti> zyga: no, ubuntu main
[01:14] <zyga> strange
[01:15] <pitti> zyga: language-pack-[gnome-] -<lang>
[01:15] <pitti> zyga: please use the language selector :-)
[01:15] <zyga> pitti: language selector for hoary? :)
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[01:15] <pitti> zyga: ah, hoary - no there haven't been any updates
[01:15] <zyga> BTW: it really rocks :)
=== Gman is now known as GmanZZ
[01:16] <zyga> so after the release breezy's translations are frozen, right?
[01:16] <pitti> zyga: well, the original strings are, not the translations
[01:17] <HiddenWolf> zyga, language packs should be updated.
[01:17] <pitti> zyga: there will be updates after release
=== pitti kicks udev's braindead postinst really hard
[01:17] <zyga> pitti: so if I translate a package in rosetta now it will be updated in hoary (language packs that is)
[01:17] <pitti> zyga: yes, as soon as rosetta export actually works
[01:17] <zyga> pitti: excelent!
[01:17] <pitti> zyga: I made a few attempts, but so far export is still broken
[01:18] <zyga> :-)
[01:18] <zyga> anyway if that's WIP it will be operationan one day
[01:18] <zyga> operational even
[01:19] <pitti> zyga: yes, archive-wise hoary updates are prepared and ready to go
[01:22] <doko> anybody knows where seb128 is?
[01:22] <pitti> doko: yes, vac until tomorrow
[01:22] <doko> ohh
[01:23] <doko> pitti: do you know, if we already have translations for the two lpi items?
[01:23] <pitti> doko: I guess not
[01:24] <pitti> but maybe Rosetta knows them already`
[01:24] <pitti> ?
[01:24] <pitti> hey, my i386 install finished
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[01:25] <ogra> doko, feeling better ?
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[01:26] <doko> ogra: drugs are ok ...
[01:27] <ogra> doko, did you recognize that the blackdown packages are compiled with XPrint support (so nothing mozilla related works, i.e. plugins)? anything we can do about that ? 
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[01:27] <doko> ogra: please file a bug report
[01:28] <ogra> doko, dholbach will be soon around the corner... we'll send him to you to be helpful ;)
[01:28] <ogra> (mix your drugs and such ;) )
[01:29] <janimo> any MOTUs with some free time on their hand - does such a motu even exist ;) ? - want to revu xubuntu-meta? End of spam
[01:30] <janimo> sorry wrong channel
[01:30] <HiddenWolf> daniels, There is nothing you can do about nvidia drivers, so I have to bitch to nvidia?
[01:31] <daniels> HiddenWolf: well, it's not like I can fix the problem ... same with fglrx
[01:31] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hmm, clean install from today's iso: I do get the 020_permissions.rules symlink
[01:33] <HiddenWolf> pitti, perhaps today's udev fixed it?
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/ | #ubuntu is temporarily open to registered users only to prevent spam bots. /msg nickserv help to regist
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by tseng at Sat Aug 27 16:31:34 2005
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[01:35] <pitti> HiddenWolf: nope, that fixed another bug; also, today's update is not yet on the CD
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[01:35] <HiddenWolf> Hm. Well, then I'd say check what differs between colony3 and today?
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[01:36] <HiddenWolf> pitti, Hm. Well, then I'd say check what differs between colony3 and today?
[01:37] <pitti> HiddenWolf: but you said colony 3 worked for you?
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[01:37] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hm, it seems the installer downloaded new packages off the network, so I already do have udev 0.060-1ubuntu8
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[01:37] <pitti> HiddenWolf: which version do you have?
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[01:38] <HiddenWolf> pitti, Version: 0.060-1ubuntu9
[01:38] <HiddenWolf> hidde@system:~$ /etc/udev/rules.d/020_permissions.rule
[01:38] <HiddenWolf> bash: /etc/udev/rules.d/020_permissions.rule: No such file or directory
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[01:38] <HiddenWolf> haven't rebooted tho
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[01:39] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, I have ubuntu8
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[01:39] <pitti> HiddenWolf: the udev postinst is braindead, I will try to whack some sense into it, but that's nontrivial due to conffile migratio
[01:39] <pitti> n
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[01:41] <HiddenWolf> pitti, anything i can do to to help you track it?
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[01:42] <pitti> HiddenWolf: beat up Marco d'Itri to do sensible packaging? :-) /me runs
[01:43] <HiddenWolf> pitti, sorry, I'm a pacifist. ;)
[01:43] <pitti> HiddenWolf: me too, that's the problem :-)
[01:43] <pitti> anyway, I will look into it
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[01:43] <pitti> but first, lemme take a look at eject
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[01:43] <HiddenWolf> pitti, no rush.
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[01:46] <pitti> brb
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[02:00] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hmm, the symlink is correct for me, but the group of the cdrom device is indeed wrong
[02:03] <HiddenWolf> pitti, what does the symlink do really? (yes, I'm dumb. ;) )
[02:03] <pitti> HiddenWolf: it just makes /etc/udev/permissions.rules actually evaluated
[02:03] <pitti> ... being ...
[02:04] <HiddenWolf> pitti, you're the language pack guy right?
[02:04] <pitti> yes
[02:05] <HiddenWolf> pitti, any reason why in my english-only install I get fonts from Arabic to Swahili?
[02:05] <pitti> yes
[02:05] <pitti> HiddenWolf: we want to display all content correctly
[02:05] <pitti> HiddenWolf: "english install" means english desktop "translations" and english input support
[02:05] <pitti> but we don't want to cripple content display
[02:06] <HiddenWolf> Right, but would it be possible to get all those fonts out of my openoffice font lists then? It makes changing the font a pain, since half of them look like gibberish to me.
[02:06] <pitti> hm, no idea
[02:07] <HiddenWolf> s/openoffice/texteditor
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> doko: any clue? ^^
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[02:10] <doko> HiddenWolf: no
[02:10] <HiddenWolf> bummer
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/ | #ubuntu is temporarily open to registered users only to prevent spam bots. /msg nickserv help to regist
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by tseng at Sat Aug 27 16:31:34 2005
[02:12] (HiddenWolf/#ubuntu-devel) doko, mind if I file a bug to that extent?
[02:12] (mpt/#ubuntu-devel) eh, that's interesting
[02:12] (siretart/#ubuntu-devel) ogra: around?
[02:12] (mpt/#ubuntu-devel) Yesterday, I had X but not usplash. Today I have usplash but no X.
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[02:13] <doko> HiddenWolf: implement FontHandling, or how this breezy goal is named.
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/ | #ubuntu is temporarily open to registered users only to prevent spam bots. /msg nickserv help to regist
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by tseng at Sat Aug 27 16:31:34 2005
[02:14] (ogra/#ubuntu-devel) siretart, hey, thanks...
[02:14] (ogra/#ubuntu-devel) siretart, i thought lbxp was dead ...
[02:14] (ogra/#ubuntu-devel) libxp even
[02:14] (HiddenWolf/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: hidde@system:~$ /etc/udev/rules.d/020_permissions.rules
[02:14] (HiddenWolf/#ubuntu-devel) bash: /etc/udev/rules.d/020_permissions.rules: Permission denied
[02:15] (HiddenWolf/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: just the group then.
[02:15] (siretart/#ubuntu-devel) ogra: it is dead, but still in xorg cvs
[02:15] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, so we two have the same situation. I just wanted to assert that :-)
[02:15] <siretart> ogra: daniels suggested to package it and have it around in universe for binary shit like this
[02:15] <ogra> siretart, but the clean fix would be to fix the java package :)
[02:15] <mpt> daniels: It says "Failed to start the X server", etc, and the text frame uses lots of s, s, and s, and becomes unresponsive
[02:15] <ogra> at least its a start :)
[02:16] <daniels> mpt: need an Xorg.0.log
[02:16] <siretart> ogra: but still I wonder why no binaries are available: http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/source/libxp
[02:16] <mpt> daniels: and that would be in /var/logs/ ?
[02:16] <daniels> ogra: fixing java would be nice, certainly ...
[02:16] <siretart> according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libx/libxp/6.2.0-0ubuntu1/ it got built
[02:16] <siretart> but there is no binary in the archive. huh?!
[02:16] <daniels> siretart: possibly binary NEW
[02:17] <daniels> mpt: /var/log/, yes
[02:17] <ogra> daniels, yes, but i dont hav access to the source, we only have the blackdown binary packages currently...
[02:17] <daniels> ogra: exactly
[02:17] <fabbione> daniels: ehy dude
[02:17] <daniels> fabbione: sup
[02:17] <fabbione> -54.. did you fix the MANIFEST for sparc? ;)
[02:17] <siretart> daniels: who could check this?
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[02:18] <daniels> fabbione: yes, I said that I fixed it a while ago, when you last asked me about it :P
[02:18] <fabbione> daniels: given i had to do a vi on the fly while building -53 ;)
[02:18] <daniels> siretart: probably elmo when he wakes up, but he was up until stupid o'clock fixing jackass
[02:18] <fabbione> daniels: there was no track in the changelog.. sooooo....
[02:18] <siretart> ok
[02:20] <HiddenWolf> doko, ok, i'll live with it
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[02:27] <opi> Hi
[02:29] <marcin_ant> hi all
[02:30] <marcin_ant> I got a problem with wireless network interface on breezy
[02:30] <marcin_ant> I need to configure this NIC as dhcp client and in ad-hoc mode
[02:30] <opi> iface wlan0 dhcp won't work?
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[02:30] <opi> Oh, ad-hoc.. 
[02:31] <marcin_ant> the problem is that wireless-mode ad-hoc in /etc/network/interfaces doesn't want to work
[02:31] <opi> marcin_ant: man interfaces says nothing at all?
[02:31] <opi> marcin_ant: TBH, I always created my own script for WiFi in /etc/init.d ;)
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[02:31] <marcin_ant> opi, it says to add wireless-mode ad-hoc
[02:32] <marcin_ant> opi, but after boot my nic is in managed mode and doesn't want to connect
[02:32] <marcin_ant> opi, when I iwconfig eth1 mode ad-hoc
[02:32] <marcin_ant> and dhclient eth1 
[02:32] <marcin_ant> then everything is ok
[02:32] <opi> maybe there's an error in /etc/init.d/networking?
[02:33] <marcin_ant> opi, hmm I need to take a look at this script
[02:33] <opi> marcin_ant: if everything fails, you can try dirty hack, throw .sh script into if-pre-up
[02:34] <j^> marcin_ant you have to set ssid before you can set ad-hoc. so it should be
[02:34] <j^> wireless-essid Wireless
[02:34] <j^> wireless-mode ad-hoc
[02:34] <marcin_ant> j^, I got this like you said 
[02:34] <marcin_ant> j^, and it worked on hoary
[02:34] <marcin_ant> j^, but doesn't want on breezy
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[02:36] <opi> marcin_ant: maybe you should poke around Bugzilla
[02:36] <opi> marcin_ant: maybe it's filled bug?
[02:37] <marcin_ant> opi, I'll try
[02:37] <marcin_ant> opi, but in fact I even don't know where is ubuntu bugzilla
[02:38] <marcin_ant> opi, anyway I'll try to add iwconfig eth1 mode ad-hoc somewhere to run this script before ifup
[02:39] <j^> pre-up iwconfig ...
[02:39] <j^> could work
[02:39] <j^> (in interfaces)
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[02:41] <marcin_ant> j^, /etc/init.d/networking fails always when I add something to interfaces....
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[02:46] <opi> marcin_ant: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[02:52] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, so you are sure that ubuntu6 worked?
[02:53] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I haven't tried any breezy before Colony3.
[02:53] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, thanks; 
[02:55] <HiddenWolf> pitti, sorry for giving you that impression. I ment: On my colony3 install I could at least acces(automount) the disc without chowning them, which I couldn't under the 26aug daily.
[02:55] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, so what I meant was that the device permissions were ok?
[02:56] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I guess so, yes.
[02:58] <pitti> darn
[02:59] <pitti> does anybody still have a copy of the udev_0.060-1ubuntu6 source package?
[02:59] <pitti> Keybuk: you maybe? since you touched it recently
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[03:02] <siretart> elmo: around? - do you happen to know what's up with libxp? it seems to be accepted (got that mail), it has been built, but there are no binary packages in the archive. did I do something stupid?
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:irc.freenode.net] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/ | #ubuntu is temporarily open to registered users only to prevent spam bots. /msg nickserv help to regi
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[03:28] <HiddenWolf> Gees, what a mess. :)
[03:29] <opi> HiddenWolf: ;-)
[03:30] <opi> HiddenWolf: we're all vitims of spam wars 
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[03:31] <pitti> HiddenWolf: can you please verify that the permissions are correct when restarting udev?
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[03:35] <pitti> brb
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[03:36] <HiddenWolf> opi, it's just sick that someone would spam freenode.
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[03:40] <pitti> HiddenWolf: can you please put your udev deb somewhere?
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[03:43] <sivang> tgall_foo: ping
[03:44] <sivang> tgall_foo: when you created your IBM booting images, did you use an archive mirror, if so, was it local or on the web?
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[03:53] <sivang> tgall: ping again, did yu catch my last question ?
[03:57] <tgall> morning sivang 
[03:58] <tgall> sivang, as to how did those combo of flags come about ?
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[04:08] <Mitario> mvo, yay! cheers :)
[04:09] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[04:09] <mvo> how are you? 
[04:09] <Mitario> mvo, hey :)
[04:09] <Mitario> just noticed      - fix the "window is incorrectly drawn on first run" bug (#14006) :)
[04:09] <Mitario> mvo, i'm very good, you?
[04:10] <mvo> Mitario: I think I fixed that bloody bug in the notification daemon that caused the double drawn notification for update-notifier :)
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[04:10] <Mitario> yeah :)
[04:10] <Mitario> great!
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[04:11] <mvo> Mitario: oh, nice! 
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[04:26] <sivang> tgall: haven't tested them alone yet, I've been trying to hack on debian-cd to have those flags in for building images, troulbe is that I think debian-cd expects me to have a complete mirror on the local disk to run
[04:27] <tgall> sivang: ah ..  yeah I haven't started to hack on debian cd quite yet...    my experiences with livecd etc creation is all based on gentoo from which I hail,  just started to get into the swing of things to learn about debian packaging and building
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[04:28] <tgall> sivang, I know those mkisofs flags work tho ...    were you around when jdub and I were talking about the other bits you need to get an IBM chrp/rpa ppc64 box to boot off iso ?
[04:28] <sivang> tgall: not quite. I recall he told me you two had success rolling them on, would you mind sharing with me the missing bits?
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[04:29] <tgall> sivang: np .. sounds like maybe I ought to throw it into the wiki!
[04:29] <tgall> sivang: I personally haven't rolled a ubuntu cd yet ... but I'm burning to come up to speed to be able to do that
[04:29] <sivang> tgall: how did you get your image made eventually? uncompressing the content of a livecd and preparing it with mkisofs like the way you described in your mail to -devel ?
[04:29] <sivang> tgall: me too :)
[04:30] <sivang> tgall: we can start the inofficial IBM CHRP Ubuntu team :)
[04:30] <tgall> basically on IBM boxen (32 and 64 bit)  by convention they look for a script  ppc/bootinfo.txt
[04:30] <tgall> sivang: I'm all for that
[04:30] <tgall> the bootinfo.txt script is a bit too long to c/n/p in here tho
[04:30] <sivang> tgall: I'll start a quick page  on the wiki, then send you the link so you can outline the instructions there
[04:31] <tgall> and in that script basically you point at a yaboot that has had addnote run over it (addnote comes with yaboot)
[04:31] <sivang> tgall: ah, I think I saw that bootinfo.txt file in the howto jdub pointed a link for me
[04:31] <sivang> tgall: what'a addnote role?
[04:31] <tgall> sivang: throws a little elf record at the front that the open firmware loader needs
[04:32] <sivang> tgall: ah like the first bits the loader JUMPs to ?
[04:33] <tgall> no doesn't contain code to execute
[04:33] <tgall> more of a packaging issue which is rather silly
[04:33] <tgall> IBM OF looks for it ... apple OF expects it not to be there
[04:33] <sivang> tgall: I see. ok then, I guess I can read about it at penguinppc.org
[04:33] <sivang> tgall: thanks for the explenations
[04:36] <tgall> sure ting
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[04:54] <HiddenWolf> Who maintains pppoeconf?
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[05:04] <sivang> tgall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOnThePseries?action=show now you're turn to outline how to create a boot iamge manually :)
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[05:24] <pitti> HiddenWolf: FYI, it is not an udev regression; I suspect something else, I need to grab jbailey for that
[05:24] <HiddenWolf> pitti, right. Thanks for the positive action. :)
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[05:25] <pitti> HiddenWolf: this one makes me drive up the wall
[05:25] <HiddenWolf> pitti, If I could code my way out of a wet paper bag, I'd help. Sorry. :$
[05:27] <pitti> HiddenWolf: I suspect that initramfs-tools breaks it somehow, but I need to talk to Jeff to find out details
[05:30] <HiddenWolf> pitti, you rock.
[05:30] <hunger> pitti: Was this about /dev/input/mice not working?
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[05:31] <HiddenWolf> hunger, no, about /dev/cdrom being owned by root instead of cdrom.
[05:31] <pitti> hunger: it was about "devices have the wrong permisssions" (#14226), not sure whether this also affects your problem
[05:31] <pitti> HiddenWolf: it's not just cdrom, but all block devices
[05:31] <HiddenWolf> pitti, ok, sorry.
[05:31] <hunger> Oh. haven't noticed that yet:-)
[05:32] <pitti> no need to excuse :-)
[05:32] <hunger> But then I have not used my cdrom since I installed hoary:-)
[05:32] <HiddenWolf> The first thing I did was pop in a cd, since rhythmbox isn't working at all at the moment.
[05:33] <HiddenWolf> ubuntu then promptly told me I couldn't play my cd. :P
=== hunger finds /dev/input/mice missing much more enraging anyway: X won't start without me doing an udevstart beforehand.
[05:33] <pitti> hunger: could indeed be the same bug
[05:33] <dilinger> $#@!$
[05:33] <dilinger> --- Unregistered users cannot currently send private messages due to spambot problems. please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup )
[05:33] <dilinger> i hate this network
[05:33] <pitti> fabbione: do you happen to know about the guts of initramfs?
[05:33] <HiddenWolf> bah, is daniels gone?
[05:34] <dilinger> pitti: hiya.  are you familiar w/ CAN-2005-2655?
[05:35] <pitti> Hi dilinger 
[05:35] <zul> dilinger: maybe you should register then
[05:36] <pitti> dilinger: never heard of
[05:36] <dilinger> pitti: alright.  pitti@canonical.com, right?
[05:36] <dilinger> or is it mpitt?
[05:37] <pitti> dilinger: martin.pitt@u.c
[05:37] <pitti> dilinger: pitti could also work
[05:38] <pitti> brb
[05:40] <dilinger> zul: because i have no desire to register my nick w/ an irc network and have unregistered people not able to msg me
[05:40] <sivang> dilinger: just register ? :)
[05:41] <sivang> dilinger: woops, terrible latency problem
[05:41] <dilinger> it's yet another stupid password to remember
[05:41] <sivang> true...I just got used to it by now..
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[05:47] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, around?
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[05:52] <lamont-away> elmo: please sync ixbiff_0.03d (fixes ftbfs in breezy)
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[05:53] <lamont-away> elmo: dvi2dvi_2.0alpha-5.1 looks like a good candidate as well, although it contains a bit more code cleanup than just the bare minimum...
[05:55] <infinity> elmo / mdz : xdriinfo needs to be pushed through NEW for xbase-clients to be installable again, pretty please.
[05:55] <siretart> lamont-away: hi. is it possible that a package got build but it's binaries did not go into the archive yet because it is in Binary NEW? can you check that or is elmo the only person to do that?
[05:55] <siretart> s/to do/who can do/
[05:56] <infinity> siretart : Yes, it's possible.  Which package?
[05:56] <lamont-away> siretart: anyone can verify that the package was uploaded (buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.$ARCH, state==Uploaded)
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[05:57] <lamont-away> from there, why it's not in the archive requires looking at the appropriate overrides file in archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices
[05:57] <lamont-away> that is, to confirm that it truely is 'NEW' (missing from the overrides file)
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[05:58] <lamont-away> someone with shell access to the master archive (not infinity/me) can actually go look and see what queue it's in...
[05:58] <lamont-away> there are other reasons that it might not be in the archive, but those are the usual ones...
[05:58] <siretart> it is package libxp
[05:59] <siretart> lamont: it has been built sucessfully on all archs, and I got a mail from katie that it got ACCEPTED
[05:59] <siretart> lamont: but its binary packages are not yet in the archive
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[06:01] <siretart> and there is no entry in the override file at all. does this mean it is in binary NEW?
[06:02] <siretart> gn8 infinity 
[06:02] <infinity> siretart : Yes.
[06:02] <siretart> ah. ok
[06:02] <siretart> I thought I did something stupid
[06:02] <siretart> :)
[06:05] <lamont> elmo: please sync evolver_2.23-1.1 (fixes ftbfs)
[06:05] <lamont> siretart: your ACCEPTED mail says that the source was accepted into the archive
[06:05] <lamont> if it's not in the overrides file, then it's NEW
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[06:06] <siretart> ok. learned another thing for today :)
[06:06] <siretart> so I'll wait for another few days. no problem
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[06:10] <mdz_> infinity: done
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[06:19] <bddebian> Hello
[06:23] <pitti> Hi mdz_ 
[06:23] <lamont> elmo: please sync tint_0.03b (fixes ftbfs)
[06:23] <_derek> daniels: ping
[06:24] <mdz_> pitti: hi
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[06:25] <_derek> can anyone tell me if any work has been done on bug 14120
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[06:29] <tgall> sivang, ping 
[06:30] <lamont> elmo: please sync nntp_1.5.12.1-19 (ftbfs)
[06:30] <pitti> mdz_: is there anybody else apart from jbailey who knows about the guts of initramfs?
[06:32] <lamont> elmo: ipchains_1.3.10-16 looks sync-able as well (a couple other minor-nit bugs fixed too)
[06:34] <lamont> elmo: mmv_1.01b-12.2 fixes ftbfs
[06:34] <mdz_> pitti: I do
[06:37] <HiddenWolf> Who maintains ppp(oeconf)
[06:37] <HiddenWolf> ?
[06:38] <lamont> HiddenWolf: it says this for Debian:  Maintainer: Eduard Bloch <blade@debian.org>
[06:38] <lamont> for ubuntu?  whoever fixes it, I expect
[06:38] <HiddenWolf> lamont, so who do I talk to if I want it to start earlier during init?
[06:39] <lamont> dunno
[06:39] <lamont> if it needs to start earlier in general, I'd probably start a discussion with Eduard
[06:40] <HiddenWolf> lamont, piont is that if one uses ppp, ntp will always time out, just because ntp gets run before ppp. That's silly.
[06:40] <lamont> and a pretty good argument
[06:42] <mdz> infinity: are xdriinfo binaries inbound?
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[06:44] <HiddenWolf> mdz, just showed up on -changes...
[06:45] <mdz> HiddenWolf: that was the soruce
[06:45] <mdz> source
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[06:48] <siretart> HiddenWolf: Eduard Bloch is Zomb on irc, btw
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[06:51] <HiddenWolf> siretart, we'll see. I might get flamed again for running Ubuntu tho. :)
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[06:54] <sivang> tgall: pong
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[06:56] <sivang> anyone to review and upload http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/lpint/gnome-panel/my_lpint_gnome-panel-crack.diff for me?
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[06:58] <sivang> hmmm, guess I'll email pitti with the debdiff then
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[07:18] <mvo> ogra: ping
[07:20] <tvo> mdz: ping
[07:20] <mdz> tvo: pong
[07:20] <tvo> mdz: is it possible to get a new version of kio-locate into main ?
[07:21] <mvo> mdz: what do I do with automatically imported bugs from bugs.d.o against universe packages? just clossing with "universe" as tag?
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[07:28] <mdz> tvo: subject to release criteria, yes
[07:28] <mdz> mvo: universe or NOTWARTY
[07:28] <mdz> mvo: (notwarty suppresses all further mail)
[07:28] <mvo> mdz: done, thanks
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[07:30] <BrightLight> Hello. Ubuntu installer is unable to find my Slimtype DVDRW (Laptop-Acer TravelMate 4152Lmi). Is there any other way to install Ubuntu ?
[07:30] <tvo> mdz: where to find those?
[07:30] <mdz> tvo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
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[07:31] <mdz> tvo: if the new version is exclusively a bugfix release, that would be a good candidate
[07:36] <infinity> mdz : xriinfo binaries are all uploaded...
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[07:36] <infinity> xriinfo, too.
[07:36] <infinity> Argh.  xDriinfo.
[07:36] <tvo> mdz: it depends on what you'd call a bugfix. I'd say it could do, but who am I to say so..
[07:36] <infinity> Note to self: If you're awake at3:30am because you can't chake a cough, that's not a good time ot be working or communicating.
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[07:38] <tvo> mdz: detailed changelog --> http://home.casema.nl/vollebregt/soc/changelog-kio-locate--tvo--0.2.html
[07:39] <mdz> infinity: did you have any luck with usplash?
[07:40] <infinity> usplash is a "This Morning" thing.
[07:40] <tvo> mdz: to summarize: no new features, just changed behaviour and bugfixes
[07:40] <infinity> (I took an actual weekend for once, then Monday was "jackass was down and stuff was goofy" day)
[07:41] <infinity> So, Tuesday (which happens in a few hours, it looks like) is "make usplash and lsb love each other day"
[07:41] <tgall> sivang, still out there ?
[07:42] <mdz> infinity: oh, I thought you had been working on it already on Friday
[07:42] <infinity> I tihnk it was Saturday already when I said I'd play with it, though my mental calendar may be off.
[07:42] <infinity> (Well, my Saturday is your Friday, so that always confuses)
[07:43] <mdz> tvo: looks OK except patch-3; how intrusive is that
[07:43] <mdz> tvo: ?
[07:43] <infinity> Anyhow, I see no reason why I shouldn't have something working and reasonably tested today.
[07:44] <jbailey> infinity: The one line patch that mjg59 gave me for when we were doing the initramfs testing shows that it all seems to work in its basic form at least.
[07:44] <infinity> jbailey : <nod>, it certainly appears to.
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[07:47] <tvo> mdz: I'd say not-intrusive, large part of the code it added already existed (and was tested). For enduser, it's just a change in UI (output only)
[07:47] <sivang> tgall: now I am, but going out in about 10 minutes
[07:48] <tgall> heh
[07:48] <tgall> go figure!
[07:48] <sivang> tgall: what? :)
[07:48] <sivang> tgall: (I was out taking some dinner, and then I Have a couple of arrangements to do)
[07:48] <tgall> I was going to ask you did you get that wiki page started ?
[07:48] <sivang> tgall: already there :)
[07:48] <tgall> great,  what's the name 
[07:49] <tgall> ?
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[07:50] <ogra> mvo, late pong
[07:58] <mjg59> jdub: We've got three more colours to play with, dude
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[08:05] <mdz> tvo: OK, sounds reasonable
[08:06] <jbailey> mdz: ping?
[08:06] <tvo> mdz: can you do a sponsored upload too or should I ask someone else?
[08:06] <mdz> tvo: please ask someone else; don't you have a mentor assigned?
[08:06] <mdz> jbailey: why is it that you often seem to ping me when I've already spoken in the channel a few seconds before 
[08:07] <mdz> jbailey: :-)
[08:07] <tvo> mdz: yes, he's pretty busy with aKademy, but I'll ask him anyways
[08:07] <jbailey> mdz: Synchronicity? =)
[08:07] <mdz> jbailey: well, there's no need to ping if I'm obviously here.  fire away :-)
[08:07] <infinity> mdz : ping.
[08:08] <jbailey> mdz: Do you have brainspace for questions on 14242 right now?  Or, I can reply in the bug.
[08:08] <mdz> jbailey: happy to talk about it here, but please follow up to 14242 as well so that pitti gets copies
[08:08] <mdz> oh, thinking of a different bug
[08:08] <mdz> jbailey: I was thinking of #14226, which is much more important at the moment
[08:10] <sivang> tgall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOnThePseries
[08:11] <mdz> jbailey: does my suggested solution in 14226 make sense to you?
[08:12] <jbailey> mdz: The tmpfs has to move from the initramfs to keep the socket for usplash up.  I'll have to figure out why it's not firing on other systems.  On mine, when I  checked it was still calling the udevstart, and seemed to be fine.
[08:12] <jbailey> mdz: So I don't tink stopping and starting is the right solution.
[08:12] <mdz> jbailey: that was pitti's proposal.  mine is in comment #7
[08:13] <sivang> tgall: I'm out talk to you when I'm home
[08:13] <jbailey> mdz: Yes, that would work.
[08:14] <HiddenWolf> Oh my, I found a critical bug. ;)
[08:14] <jbailey> Funny that I had originally created the .initramfs-tools as a way for me to tell when people had actually updated to the new initramfs or not. =)
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[08:20] <mdz> mjg59: I think we need to increase the usplash timeout
[08:20] <mdz> mjg59: the lrm init script seems to take longer than the timeout to complete
[08:21] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, that's easy enough
[08:24] <mdz> mjg59: I think it might help if that init script actually printed something; I've made it do so
[08:25] <mjg59> mdz: Do we have usplash support in the lsb scripts now?
[08:25] <mdz> still, it seems pretty feasible for it to take >15 seconds just for the meat on slow hardware, considering that it runs depmod
[08:25] <mdz> lsb (3.0-1ubuntu4) breezy; urgency=low
[08:25] <mdz>   * Basic usplash integration
[08:25] <mdz>  -- Matt Zimmerman <mdz@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:20:00 -0700
[08:25] <mjg59> Sure. Want me to bump it, or should I add support for setting it via usplash_write?
[08:25] <mdz> mjg59: care to take a look before I upload it?
[08:25] <mjg59> Then it could be extended when it's expected to take longer, and shortened otherwise
[08:26] <mjg59> mdz: Sure
[08:26] <mdz> mailed
[08:26] <mjg59> Thanks
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[08:26] <mdz> I haven't looked at anything but the success case yet
[08:26] <mdz> so I'm not sure if the mapping makes sense in the other cases
[08:29] <BenC> what package creates Xorg.conf?
[08:29] <ivoks> xserver-xorg
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[08:29] <BenC> hmm, didn't seem to create it for me
[08:30] <ivoks> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
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[08:32] <mjg59> mdz: The failure case should probably be FAILURE, not STATUS
[08:32] <mdz> mjg59: won't that print the message at the right side?
[08:32] <mdz> I think log_failure_msg is used for longer messages
[08:32] <mdz> like "I'm fucked because my config file is broken"
[08:33] <mjg59> Oh, right, I see
[08:33] <BenC> dpkg-reconfigure worked
[08:33] <mdz> BenC: fresh install or upgrade?
[08:33] <mjg59> Yeah. Looks good in that case.
[08:33] <mdz> mjg59: looking into sysv-rc integration now
[08:34] <mdz> need a way to count the number of words in a string using only posix sh without /usr
[08:34] <BenC> wow, that was bad...xserver-xorg picked the vmware module for my nvidia geforce4
[08:34] <mdz> hmm, though I guess we did agree that usplash would just lose if /usr was != /
[08:35] <mdz> mjg59: could we have usplash print something in the text box immediately after starting up?  there's quite a delay between usplash startup and the first init script
[08:35] <mjg59> mdz: can do
[08:35] <mdz> mjg59: how early does it get started?  could we actually have initramfs init display progress messages to usplash?
[08:36] <mjg59> At the moment it's started towards the end of initramfs
[08:36] <mdz> detecting hardware, etc.
[08:36] <mdz> ah
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[08:36] <mjg59> Probably best to talk to Jeff about whether it could be done earlier
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[08:40] <mdz> jbailey: ^^^
[08:41] <jbailey> Where does it need to be started?
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[08:42] <mdz> jbailey: it would be nice if it could be started early enough to display progress info for the rest of the initramfs process, see above
[08:42] <BenC> mdz: fresh install
[08:42] <mdz> BenC: daily?
[08:43] <BenC> mdz: well, fresh install of hoary (server), and then a dist-upgrade to breezy, and then manual install of xserver-xorg
[08:43] <hmrocha> hello, i don't know if this is the right channel
[08:43] <BenC> I can go back and try a fresh install of breezy daily and see if it does the same, but I suspect the xserver-xorg scripts will do the same thing
[08:43] <mdz> BenC: you probably forgot to preinstall xresprobe/mdetect
[08:43] <hmrocha> the group "plugdev" is the group that allows a user to mount a removable usb disk ?
[08:43] <BenC> it detected the nvidia card correctly
[08:44] <BenC> the name and PCI slot atleast
[08:44] <mdz> BenC: you said you didn't even have a xorg.conf
[08:44] <BenC> yeah, those two packages weren't installed
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[08:44] <BenC> so I guess that's the reason
[08:47] <jbailey> mdz, mjg59: If we do it sooner, hmm.
[08:47] <mdz> BenC: the .config script should print a warning in that case
[08:47] <jbailey> It could be put in init-top, but I'd need to mount the /dev tmpfs sooner.  So far you'd just lose /dev/console, but that can be made by hand.
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[08:51] <spayne> it is about this ndiswrapper problem because i think i might know the answer
[08:51] <spayne> whoops!
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[08:52] <mdz> mjg59: so about the progress bar
[08:52] <mdz> mjg59: it looks like sysvinit makes it rather difficult for us to get the overall number of steps in advance
[08:53] <mdz> since we go first to runlevel S, then someplace else, and I don't think we know "someplace else" in advance without, say, parsing inittab and /proc/cmdline and duplicating its logic
[08:53] <mdz> mjg59: I've got a nice progress bar for rcS though
[08:55] <mdz> I suppose we could say that the first 50% is rcS and the other 50% for whatever runlevel we end up in
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[08:58] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[08:58] <jbailey> /dev/console is always c5,1 right?  /me check lanana
[08:58] <mjg59> mdz: What did you want me to do about the timeout - increase it statically, or give you a command to increase it on the fly?
[08:59] <mdz> mjg59: I'm not sure what the best way would be to deal with it
[08:59] <mdz> ideally we shouldn't have a timeout at all, of course
[08:59] <mjg59> It's easy to remove the timeout
[08:59] <mdz> mjg59: how about a "PING" which says "I'm alive, please reset the timeout"
[08:59] <mjg59> The reason for having it was in case something dies in init
[08:59] <mjg59> mdz: That'll work already
[08:59] <mdz> but doesn't print anything
[08:59] <mdz> oh, ko
[08:59] <mdz> ok
[09:00] <mjg59> The timeout is just implemented as a select loop - sending it a command it doesn't understand will reset it
[09:03] <spayne> who mantains hotplug btw?
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[09:04] <jbailey> spayne: There's a few of us who've hacked on it.  What do you need?
[09:05] <spayne> just my ndiswrapper problem - i have discovered it is the problem of hotplug not loading the module
[09:07] <jbailey> spayne: Can hotplug detect the need to load ndiswrapper?  I've never used it.
[09:07] <spayne> jbailey: gernally adding a line to /etc/modules tells it to and it works
[09:07] <jbailey> Right.  And it's not loading it in /etc/modules?
[09:07] <jbailey> s/in/from/
[09:07] <spayne> jbailey: but for some reason, when i do that, it locks on "Starting Hotplug..."
[09:07] <spayne> jbailey: it is not loaded by default
[09:08] <jbailey> spayne: If you modprobe it by hand does it work?
[09:08] <spayne> yes
[09:08] <mdz> mjg59: I suppose we should start using the -novtswitch stuff too...
[09:08] <spayne> jbailey: it works no problem when doing that
[09:08] <mdz> though even if we do that, the progress bar is never going to reach the top in the default configuration
[09:09] <jbailey> Hmm.  module-init-tools is what should be loading everything from there, not hotplug.
[09:10] <spayne> jbailey: i assume it is hotplug because when i just install ndiswrapper and create the link, the system fails on "Loading Modules.."
[09:10] <spayne> jbailey: but when I add the line to /etc/modules, it fails on "Starting hotplug..."
[09:10] <martinhj> jbailey: you know, I can't use lilo when I boot with a initramfs image.. works fine with a initrd image
[09:10] <martinhj> jbailey: have you noticed?
[09:11] <mjg59> martinhj: If you haven't filed a bug, then the answer is probably "no"
[09:11] <jbailey> martinhj: When was the last time you tried?  All the lilo issues that I know about were fixed near the end of last week.
[09:11] <pitti> Hi jbailey 
[09:11] <jbailey> Oh, look, a screen full of yellow. =)
[09:11] <jbailey> pitti: Heya Martin. =)
[09:11] <spayne> jbailey: any ideas why?
[09:12] <spayne> jbailey: i also compiled the newer 1.3rc1 modules and it still failed
[09:12] <spayne> jbailey: which means it isn't ndiswrapper
[09:12] <pitti> jbailey: shall I fix that new initramfs/udev bug or do you want to?
[09:12] <jbailey> spayne: Not without doing some further tracing.  I don't know ndiswrapper at all.  When you say that you install it and it fails with "Loading Modules", that's the ndiswrapper startup script?
[09:12] <martinhj> jbailey: you know, it's because of the lvm stuff.. you told me to use initramfs-tools 0.23 and it worked
[09:13] <jbailey> pitti: I've got another patch for udev, so I can just as easily.  I'm going to take mdz's idea and just special case it.
[09:13] <mjg59> When you modprobe ndiswrapper, it does funky stuff involving filesystem access
[09:13] <pitti> jbailey: right, thanks
[09:13] <pitti> jbailey: that was a hard one...
[09:13] <spayne> jbailey: it must be because when i remove the device, it says "ndiswrapper failed to load the windows driver"
[09:13] <jbailey> pitti: Yeah, I had gone over that stuff, and for some reason had the impression that it should be calling udevstart correctly.  Sorry for the hassle.
[09:14] <jbailey> spayne: This is despite it not loading?
[09:14] <martinhj> now I have tried to use both 0.23 and 0.24 to create a initramfs image but I can't use the lilo command to update the mbr
[09:14] <martinhj> boot works fine
[09:14] <jbailey> spayne: Or did it load once succesfully?
[09:14] <spayne> jbailey: it has never loaded succesfully on the 2.6.12 kernels
[09:14] <spayne> jbailey: only on the old 2.6.10 hoary ones
[09:14] <jbailey> martinhj: So when it was working before, it wasn't with lilo?
[09:14] <spayne> jbailey: despite it not loading, the ndiswrapper rror appears
[09:15] <martinhj> jbailey: yes, but I need to boot with a initrd-image to use the lilo user space program
[09:15] <mdz> mjg59: usplash integration goodness uploaded
[09:15] <martinhj> when I do that, I can use initramfs images to boot just fine
[09:15] <jbailey> martinhj: Oh?  Okay, so the initramfs bit is working, it's lilo that's unhappy.  Got it. =)
[09:15] <mjg59> mdz: Rocking
[09:16] <mdz> jbailey: I encountered #14242 on my laptop as well
[09:16] <jbailey> martinhj: Can you paste me the error message in a /msg?  We'll see if it's something obviousish.
[09:16] <jbailey> mdz: Were they both upgraded from Warty?
[09:16] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[09:16] <martinhj> jbailey: yeah sorry, I was typing before thinking makeing everything a little bit unclear:-)
[09:16] <mdz> who runs packages.ubuntu.com?
[09:17] <pitti> slomo: here?
[09:17] <jbailey> mdz: initramfs-tools populated the /etc/initramfs/modules from /etc/initrd/modules so help make sure the system is bootable.  Warty's install used to include ide-generic in there.
[09:17] <slomo> pitti: yes
[09:17] <jbailey> martinhj: It's okay, I'm threading quite heavily at the moment, too. =)
[09:17] <pitti> slomo: I try to make pgadmin 3 work with the wxgtk 2.6
[09:17] <pitti> slomo: so far it wanted 2.5
[09:17] <spayne> jbailey: is there any way of getting more detail from the output?
[09:17] <pitti> slomo: "configure: error: you need to install the stc package from wxWindows/contrib/src/stc"
[09:17] <pitti> slomo: however, there is no -contrib for 2.6, only for 2.4
[09:17] <spayne> jbailey: if you are busy, ping me when you have a free moment we can talk
[09:17] <mdz> jbailey: we should explicitly exclude ide-generic, ide-disk, ext2 and ext3 from that migration
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[09:18] <jbailey> mdz: Will do/
[09:18] <pitti> slomo: any idea about that?
[09:18] <slomo> pitti: no idea... i don't really know anything about wx ;) i just fixed something to let it compile again
[09:19] <pitti> slomo: ah, ok; I just looked in the changelog :-)
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[09:19] <pitti> doko: do you know about wxgtk?
[09:19] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
[09:19] <carstenh> hi pitti 
[09:20] <CarlFK> before I start filing bug reports (not even sure on what yet...) should a user be able to start/stop a modem connection to the Internet without sudo?
[09:20] <jbailey> martinhj: Can you please file that in bugzilla, and assign it to me?  I don't understand why lilo would give dev-mapper ioctl errors.  Might be something crazy with using /dev/root and lvm rather than some name it knows about.
[09:21] <martinhj> I don't know.. it's strange since it works if I use initrd image
[09:21] <martinhj> I can try to diff the loaded modules
[09:22] <jbailey> spayne: I'm just trying to think of the best way of doing this.  If you can modprobe it by hand, then it seems like it might be trying to do something special, or locking something.
[09:22] <martinhj> jbailey: what do I pick to assign it to you?
[09:22] <jbailey> martinhj: There's a box to put an email address in the assigned to bit.  Please put jbailey@ubuntu.com in there.
[09:22] <martinhj> ok, I will
[09:23] <jbailey> Thanks
[09:24] <spayne> jbailey: although, when modprobing by hand, i need to insert it, modprobe and remove it about three times to get it working
[09:24] <martinhj> jbailey: what package should I assign it to? lvm, lilo, something to do with mkinitramfs?
[09:24] <spayne> jbailey: but i have had to do this on other distros - not just ubuntu
[09:24] <jbailey> martinhj: Erm.  You ask hard questions.
[09:25] <jbailey> martinhj: Make it initramfs-tools for now so that it shows up on my quick searches.
[09:25] <jbailey> spayne: Have you seen http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9942 ?  Is there a different between on battery and not?
[09:25] <martinhj> jbailey: but I can't set it assigned to you email address.. I'll put it in "cc"
[09:26] <spayne> jbailey: none at all
[09:26] <jbailey> martinhj: 'k, thanks.  That might be one of the new permissions things that got put in.
[09:26] <jbailey> spayne: Part of what I'm looking for is to match it problems that others are reporting.  ndiswrapper is common enough that I'm worried that your problem might not be generic...
[09:27] <jbailey> spayne: As in, it might be specific to your laptop / card / driver / zodiac sign.
[09:27] <jbailey> spayne: Since we're dealing with binary drivers there, it could be quite difficult to troubleshoot.
[09:27] <mjg59> jbailey: Well, we have the source to ndiswrapper, at least
[09:28] <jbailey> mjg59: Oh, I'm not giving up yet.  I'm just surprised to not get any other hits with the same problem.
[09:28] <spayne> jbailey: i can imagine
[09:28] <jbailey> mjg59: Want an untested initramfs that mounts /dev earlier?  You can move your usplash file to init-top instead of init-premount then.
[09:29] <mjg59> jbailey: Sure, give me a moment - I'm just about to do a usplash upload
[09:29] <sladen> again?
[09:30] <martinhj> jbailey: it's commited
[09:30] <jbailey> martinhj: Thanks.  I'll chew on it a bit more later today.
[09:30] <mjg59> jbailey: Oh, one thing I meant to ask. Which was the right hook for "install this module, but don't modprobe it"?
[09:31] <jbailey> manual_add_modules
[09:32] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, that's what I thought. Cool.
[09:32] <jbailey> mjg59: The other one is cleverly named force_load.  I will put a HACKING file together soonish for it.
=== mjg59 uploads a more attractive usplash
[09:33] <jbailey> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/initramfs-tools_0.25_all.deb
[09:33] <Treenaks> mjg59: more attractive? new image? :)
[09:33] <mjg59> Treenaks: Indeed
[09:33] <Treenaks> whoa
[09:36] <zyga> pitti: ping
[09:37] <mjg59> jbailey: Heh. It might be nice to have a /dev/null at that point:)
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[09:37] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[09:37] <Simira> anyone, what's this ubotu-bot good for?
[09:37] <zyga> pitti: there are some problems with polish translations
[09:37] <zyga> pitti: I'm working on resolving them on #launchpad
[09:38] <zyga> pitti: short story: incorrectly tagged .po files produce corrputed stuff in rosetta
[09:38] <zyga> pitti: I've written a small script that converts all latin-2 .po files to utf8 
[09:38] <jbailey> mjg59: Bah. =)
[09:38] <jbailey> Actually, hmm.
[09:38] <pitti> zyga: can we please discuss this tomorrow? I'm about to leave
[09:38] <jbailey> I don't think you have /dev/null at that point now. =)
[09:38] <zyga> pitti: as carlos suggested I've downloaded language-pack and -support source packages
[09:38] <zyga> pitti: okay :>
[09:38] <zyga> just a short question, ok?
[09:39] <zyga> what's a .poe file? they seem to be in language-support files and are identical to .po
[09:39] <mjg59> jbailey: I get an error about /dev/null not existing, which seems slightly odd since I don't reference it anywhere in my script file
[09:39] <jbailey> mjg59: YezBoz.
[09:39] <mjg59> Oh, I guess it might be from one of the functions
[09:41] <jbailey> mjg59: New 0.25 version on people.
[09:41] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, will grab in a second
[09:45] <mjg59> jbailey: Hmm. Interesting. No errors, but silent usplash failure to start.
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[09:49] <sivang> tgall: ping again, I'm back
[09:52] <mdz> there's a new one: "Ubtuntu"
[09:53] <louie> 'ubuntu, but with more T'?
[09:54] <azeem> louie: that's ututoe, or whatever it's called
[09:54] <azeem> more t's, not more Ubuntu
[09:58] <sivang> what is Ubtuntu ?
[09:59] <bddebian> You mean Utnubu ?
[10:00] <tgall> sivang: pong!
[10:00] <mpt> "More tea?" "Please."
[10:01] <sivang> tgall: yeah, at least we sync up :)
[10:01] <tgall> this is true!
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[10:01] <tgall> sivang: do you have any idea who does "official" isos or anything ?
[10:01] <sivang> tgall: I bet this is Kamion (Colin Watson)
[10:02] <sivang> tgall: but he is probably away for some holiday, I think I've heared he should return on wedensday or something
[10:02] <tgall> great
[10:02] <tgall> be nice to see if we can start to get the ppc64 ibm support into some builds
[10:02] <sivang> tgall: we should then ping him up and let him have a round on the mkisofs flags, that should get us up and running with daily builds
[10:02] <sivang> tgall: yeah
[10:02] <tgall> sivang, yup that'd be perfect!
[10:04] <sivang> tgall: my hacking attempts on debian-cd weren't that fruitful, mdz -- do you have an exact minute to spare?
[10:04] <mdz> sivang: exact?
[10:04] <mdz> sivang: Ubtuntu is a misspelling of "Ubuntu" that I had not seen before
[10:05] <tgall> heh .. sounds like something my 2 year old would say
[10:05] <sivang> mdz: eh :) well, I was more going to ask if you know if debian-cd must have a local mirror to use, or can it use other means to produce images from?
[10:06] <mdz> sivang: it needs a local mirror
[10:06] <mdz> at least, I have never seen it used any other way
[10:06] <sivang> mdz: ok, so then I guess deb-partialmirror is my freind
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[10:10] <sivang> mdz: thx
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[10:11] <tgall> sivang, i haven't started tring to grok debiancd ...  that's on the menu for this evening
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[10:12] <tgall> sivang: I gather from your comments that one either has to build all the packages that will go onto the cd local on your box or pick them up off a mirror 
[10:12] <tgall> ?
[10:13] <sivang> tgall: well, from my understanding you need to prepare a local mirror to use, and hack CONF.sh (That's a file in the debian-cd tree) to include the neccessary mkisofs flags.
[10:13] <sivang> tgall: there's a utility that mirros the archive where you tell it, sec
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[10:15] <mdz> jbailey,mjg59: we need to work out a way for usplash to cause the initramfs to be generetaed when it is installed/upgraded
[10:15] <spayne> why have some of the clearlooks engines been removed?
[10:16] <spayne> although the new Clearlooks engine is a nice blue (better than the previous one)
[10:16] <jbailey> mdz: I've tried to think about this a couple times.  The problems is that there's no promises about the users kernel.  Can we make an assumption that they'r'e going to reboot into the current kernel and that it's a Standard Ubuntu Kernel?
=== jbailey hates custom kernels.
[10:17] <wasab1> It should be PACKAGED
[10:17] <wasab1> I think that's a reasonable assumption!
[10:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think it's spelt "hooks". :-)
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[10:18] <wasab1> Can you rebuild all initramfs for all installed kernel packages?
[10:19] <infinity> Yes, you can, but it's also not a very smart idea.
[10:19] <mdz> jbailey: no, the process needs to be coordinated with the kernel packages
[10:19] <mdz> jbailey: e.g., the kernel drops a file someplace saying "I need to be kicked when initramfs changes"
[10:19] <infinity> That means that upgrading initramfs-tools or usplash could potentially render the whole system unbooteable, because all your working initrds could go away.
[10:19] <jbailey> wasab1: Sure, the formula of installed kernel package to initramfs name is easy.  But breaking standby rescue kernels could be... sad.
[10:19] <wasab1> Hmm.
[10:19] <jbailey> BenC: ping? ^^
[10:19] <wasab1> usplash should be disabled for rescue kernels then?
[10:20] <mdz> jbailey: by default, we provide the vmlinuz/initrd.img symlinks
=== wasab1 shrugs.
[10:20] <mdz> jbailey: we should only touch that kernel
[10:20] <wasab1> I'm just the penut gallary.
[10:20] <jbailey> wasab1: It's not just usplash.  It's any case where someone keeps a safe kernel around.
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[10:21] <mjg59> wasab1: It already is
[10:21] <jbailey> Ugh, there's two places in the udev init script where it checks to see if /dev is a tmpfs.  I had only caught one of them before.
[10:21] <jbailey> At least that's not evidence of my insanity.
[10:25] <sivang> tgall: I am going to prepare a an archive copy using  debpartial-mirror, then play with debian-cd on it (I'm preparing it now)
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[10:25] <tgall> sivang, hope it all works well!   I figured I'd dive into this, this evening
[10:26] <sivang> tgall: Cool :) I will be able to test that only tommorow, when I'm near the machine , I will just have the repo ready :)
[10:27] <infinity> Hrm.  Is a postinst that fails because the user deleted a conffile "wrong", or has the user just shot himself in the foot and all bets are off?
[10:27] <sivang> tgall: tommorow means about 9 to 10 hours from now for me
[10:27] <tgall> sivang, ah .. you must be in europe!
[10:27] <tgall> evening for me means in about 5 hours
[10:29] <sivang> tgall: mail me / add to the wiki page if you have any progress
=== kent_ is now known as kent
[10:30] <tgall> sivang, shall do!
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[10:33] <hughsie>  anyone got an asus or ibm laptop that they use /proc/acpi to change the brightness for?
[10:33] <hughsie> I've written a toshiba backend for hal, but i don;t have asus or ibm hardware
[10:34] <Burgundavia> hughsie, LaptopTestingTeam for contact inof
[10:34] <Makako> hughsie: I have an ASUS L3800C
[10:34] <Burgundavia> hughsie, those sort of things can be tested with these people --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[10:34] <sivang> tgall: great, thx
[10:35] <hughsie> Burgundavia: thank, checking now
[10:35] <hughsie> Makako: how do you change your brightness on your asus?
[10:36] <Makako> With the keyboard. :)
[10:36] <Makako> cat /proc/acpi/video/VGAC/LCD/brightness sez: <not supported>
[10:37] <hughsie> Makako, what about echo "4" > /proc/acpi/asus/brn?
[10:38] <Makako> works
[10:38] <infinity> mdz : Dude, you forgot to bump all the binary package revisions in debian/rules in your lrm uploads.
[10:38] <hughsie> sweet.
[10:38] <infinity> mdz : Binary uploads are being rejected.
[10:39] <hughsie> Makako, i'm adding SetLCDBrightness() to HAL
[10:39] <hughsie> so we can do platform neutral adjustments
[10:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping?
[10:39] <Burgundavia> hughsie, your laptop work rocks.
[10:39] <mjg59> hughsie: There's support for some Sonys, too
[10:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: what's happening with #13905?
[10:39] <mdz> infinity: I fucking hate that thing
[10:39] <hughsie> mjg59: what module?
[10:40] <mjg59> hughsie: sony_acpi
[10:40] <infinity> mdz : Me too.  Shall I fix it to not require voodoo on every upload?
[10:40] <hughsie> Burgundavia: thanks!
[10:40] <hughsie> mjg59: thanks.
[10:40] <infinity> mjg59 : Have you noticed that usplash is FTBFS?
[10:40] <mjg59> Can't remember if it's mainline
[10:40] <mjg59> infinity: Oh, crap. Now what?
[10:40] <hughsie> mjg59: do you own such a beauty?
[10:40] <Makako> hughsie: How are you achieving platform neutral support?
[10:40] <mjg59> hughsie: Nope
[10:40] <mdz> infinity: YES
[10:40] <mjg59> hughsie: Panasonic_acpi, too
[10:40] <hughsie> Makako: thru hal, and clever method support
[10:40] <mdz> infinity: or at the very least it should blow up if you try to build a different source version with identical _minor
[10:40] <hughsie> like power management
[10:41] <hughsie> mjg59: thanks
[10:41] <infinity> mdz : Yeah, I'll just fix it up the same way I fixed up apache1.3 (which used a very similar scheme... I blame Fabio..)
[10:41] <Makako> hughsie: Ah, so SetLCDBrightness() does the dirty work of platform specific parameters
[10:41] <hughsie> Makako, exactly, and thats the bit I'm coding now :-)
[10:41] <Makako> Very nice
[10:41] <infinity> mdz : It'll be a day or two down the TODO though, so you may want to just upload with bumped minors for now. :)
[10:42] <hughsie> Makako: you can help if you wish
[10:42] <infinity> mjg59 : usplash.c:67: error: 'logfile' undeclared (first use in this function)
[10:42] <Makako> hughsie: It would be a pleasure
[10:42] <mjg59> infinity: Yeah, got it
[10:42] <mdz> infinity: done
[10:42] <Burgundavia> hughsie, when you have some packages to test or need some feedback of any kind, use the laptop testing mailing list or #ubuntu-laptop
[10:43] <hughsie> Makako: could you find (google is your friend) how we can change the brightness for acpi_sony, acpi_panasonic, acpi_ibm like this link does for asus : http://www.taupro.com/wiki/ChemBook/LCDdisplayPowerConfiguration
[10:44] <hughsie> Burgundavia: I tend to send all patches to hal-devel - i'm quite a regular there
[10:44] <mjg59> hughsie: It's probably worth noting that these methods tend to be flaky
[10:44] <mjg59> hughsie: They don't usually work on all machines
[10:44] <hughsie> mjg59: but better than /proc/acpi/video
[10:44] <mjg59> Oh, yes
[10:44] <hughsie> mjg59: wrapping this in HAL-foo allows the backend to change tosysfs and not impact userspace at any time
[10:45] <crispin_> hughsie: I can't see any way through acpi on my IBM x31
[10:45] <hughsie> (when the acpi kernel guys feel like it that is)
[10:45] <hughsie> crispin_: /proc/acpi/ibm?
[10:46] <crispin_> nothing in there looks like the LCD brightness
[10:46] <mjg59> hughsie: ibm-acpi only has brightness control if the experimental option is passed
[10:46] <hughsie> mjg59: sounds good. more ppl will clamour for that feature
[10:46] <mjg59> hughsie: Oh, we have g-p-m in an almost usable state in Breezy - however, it doesn't seem to get any button events
[10:47] <hughsie> mjg59: yes, i see! Are you using a new 2.6.13?
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[10:47] <mjg59> No
[10:47] <hughsie> sometime in 2.6.12rcX they changed to using the generic hotkey that broke hal pretty bad
[10:47] <mjg59> Yeah, we disable that
[10:47] <hughsie> and Andrew and Linus got mad at Larry, and he changed it back
[10:47] <mjg59> That's not the problem
[10:48] <hughsie> does hal get the event?
[10:48] <HiddenWolf> Guys, that new xorg pulls in 52 packages on a dist-upgrade. Is that ok?
[10:48] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: From Hoary? Yes.
[10:48] <mjg59> hughsie: What's the easiest way to tell?
[10:48] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, breezy upgrade
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[10:48] <infinity> HiddenWolf : Yes, it's normal.
[10:48] <rtcm> HiddenWolf: it's the x-base clients
[10:48] <infinity> HiddenWolf : It's all the "missing" binaries coming back to xbase-clients and xutils.
[10:48] <mjg59> hughsie: Well, to be fair, hal-device-manager isn't listing any ACPI devices
[10:49] <HiddenWolf> ah, ok.
[10:49] <mjg59> So it's presumably a hal problem
[10:49] <HiddenWolf> infinity, the last batch of things broken out, or the last things missing put back in?
[10:49] <hughsie> mjg59: what hal version?
[10:49] <mjg59> Give me a sec, just making sure I'm on the latest
[10:50] <hughsie> mjg59: hal has had *loads* of new stuff in 0.5.4
[10:50] <mjg59> hughsie: It's almost certainly not 0.5.4
[10:50] <mjg59> But I thought this stuff was supposed to be working ages ago?
[10:51] <hughsie> mjg59: 0.5.2 should have the acpi stuff
[10:51] <mjg59> 0.5.3
[10:51] <hughsie> could you do me a trace of hald --daemon=no verbose=yes please
[10:51] <mdz> does anyone here know about pppoe/pppoeconf?
[10:51] <mdz> I haven't had to use them in years
[10:52] <mdz> and there seems to be at least one problem being reported frequently
[10:53] <Nafallo> I've use them, I had to debug a problem with them this past weekend.
[10:53] <jbailey> mdz: Failing everything else, I think bradb's provider might still do pppoe, I could try to sync up with him for troubleshooting.
[10:53] <infinity> Aww, crap.
[10:53] <mjg59> hughsie: Ah, hang on - it's probably because of the missing /proc/acpi/button crap
[10:54] <Nafallo> what's the problem?
[10:54] <mdz> Nafallo: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14102
[10:54] <hughsie> mjg59: yes, that's the change that Andrew went mad about
[10:54] <mjg59> Yeah, we've got that rectified as well
[10:54] <infinity> mdz : A mess of xbase-clients' dependencies ended up in universe (which, I suppose, is where they probably do belong, but..) and xbase-clients is either directly or indirectly a build-dep of many things in main.
[10:54] <mdz> Nafallo: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8568
[10:54] <mjg59> I'm just not running the latest kernel on this machine
=== mjg59 goes to find another one
[10:54] <hughsie> mjg59: okay, thanks :-)
[10:55] <infinity> mdz : Do we bring all those little apps back to main (so xbase-clients, which is in main, becomes installable again), or should I spend a mess of time hunting down every xbase-client dep and replacing it with something saner?
[10:55] <infinity> mdz : I assume a germinate run will just insist on promoting a bunch of stuff to main, due to xbase-clients and xutils pulling them in, which is probably the path of least resistance.
[10:55] <mdz> infinity: germinating
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[10:58] <mdz> mjg59: no main inclusion report for irda-utils; wasn't that one of yours?
[10:58] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, yes, good point
[10:58] <mjg59> mdz: Give me 5 minutes?
[10:58] <mdz> mjg59: sure
[10:59] <mdz> mjg59: otoh, toshset has one but it isn't seeded yet
[10:59] <HiddenWolf> Guys, I just noticed that grub doesn't pick up on my windows install anymore. update-grub removes it from the menu.lst even.
[11:00] <mjg59> mdz: toshset is depended on by the latest acpi-support, isn't it?
[11:00] <mjg59> If not, I've screwed up
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[11:01] <sivang> mdz: how do I tell debpartial-mirror to use breezy instead of sarge that is currently uses?
[11:01] <infinity> HiddenWolf : Was it listed before or after ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
[11:02] <ivoks> it removes it if it was before
[11:02] <HiddenWolf> infinity, before. usually, however (read hoary) grub picked up on my windows install and added it automaticly.
[11:02] <infinity> HiddenWolf : GRUB doesn't do any autodetection of Windows partition, only the installer does.  If you later accidentally move around the Windows entry in menu.lst so it's in the autogenerated area, it will go away on update-grub.
[11:02] <mdz> infinity: xbase-clients deps promoted to main
[11:02] <ivoks> HiddenWolf: nope, he added it after
[11:02] <mdz> infinity: should be much happier after cron.daily
[11:02] <infinity> mdz : Danke.
[11:03] <HiddenWolf> infinity, I added it with the boot tool in the menu, which added it before the end of the automagic list. This then got overwritten.
[11:03] <mdz> mjg59: not by the current version in the archive, no
[11:03] <HiddenWolf> I guess I need to file a bug on whatever that boot tool is named then?
[11:03] <infinity> HiddenWolf : Then the boot tool is the buggy applicatoin for adding it in the wrong place.  Fire away in bugzilla. :)
[11:03] <mdz> mjg59: (0.25)
[11:03] <HiddenWolf> infinity, what's the package?
[11:03] <mjg59> mdz: Grah. Crap.
[11:04] <infinity> HiddenWolf : dpkg -S /usr/bin/boot-admin
[11:04] <mjg59> hughsie: Ok, hal finds them, but g-p-m is still doing nothing
[11:06] <Nafallo> mdz: I have no clue about #14102 (I use hoary for my router), but couldn't #8568 be two default routes?
[11:06] <hughsie> mjg59: what event do you get with hal? can you do lshal --monitor plz
[11:07] <hughsie> and then hammer a button :-)
[11:07] <Nafallo> mdz: (not that i used kubuntu though ;-))
[11:07] <mjg59> hughsie: Nothing
[11:07] <mjg59> But it's getting ACPI battery events
=== Nafallo almost falls asleep at the keyboard
[11:08] <Nafallo> night guys
[11:09] <hughsie> mjg59: odd. you using acpid or plain /proc/acpi ?
[11:09] <mjg59>  /proc/acpi
[11:09] <hughsie> mjg59: odder
[11:09] <mjg59> I disabled acpid in order to stop it interfering
[11:09] <hughsie> sure, good more
[11:09] <hughsie> *move
[11:09] <hughsie> could you do hald --verbose plz
[11:10] <hughsie> and then hammer a button
[11:10] <hughsie> sounds like a hal bug
[11:10] <sivang> mdz: err, sorry, I found the conffile...never mind
[11:11] <mjg59> hughsie: Nothing
[11:12] <hughsie> mjg59: not cool.
[11:12] <hughsie> did acpid button event work?
[11:12] <mjg59> hughsie: Yup
[11:12] <mjg59> Just grabbing the latest package to confirm
[11:13] <hughsie> mjg59: you're right, hal's ignoring the events
[11:13] <mjg59> Ok, certainly not happening
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[11:16] <Mitario> hello
[11:17] <hughsie> mjg59: do you have hal-addon-acpi running?
[11:17] <ajmitch> morning
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[11:20] <mpt> mdz: Should the event-notifier idea described by pitti and yourself in http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-June/008392.html become a UBZ BoF?
[11:21] <mjg59> hughsie: No, it doesn't seem to have started it
[11:22] <mjg59> hughsie: In fact, it doesn't appear to be installed
[11:22] <HiddenWolf> mvo, your reply to 14228, what is that? a novel? ;)
[11:22] <HiddenWolf> mvo, cheers mate.
[11:23] <mvo> HiddenWolf: heh :) it's a tricky problem
[11:24] <mvo> HiddenWolf: what do you think about it? which one of the alternatives do sound good to you?
[11:24] <HiddenWolf> mvo, heh, yeah. Left me puzzled. I was about to start downloading a hoary kernel for my breezy upgrade. ;)
[11:25] <HiddenWolf> I'd say put it in a package, and get that package into warty/hoary as well, just to make sure. But I'm not the expert, just the guy that ran into it and knew where to file a report.
[11:25] <infinity> No reason to bring the package back to older releases.
[11:25] <infinity> If ubuntu-desktop depends on it, you're good to go.
[11:26] <mvo> having a package does not feel right, but it would be a solution that works now(tm)
[11:27] <infinity> mvo : Well, the other option is just to smack all the default sources.list lines for breezy on the bottom of the existing file, so they now have both hoary and breezy (and can disable hoary on their own)... Ick.
[11:27] <infinity> Of course, you sitll need something to do that work.
[11:28] <mvo> infinity: yes, if we do that too often mmap will complain loudly ;)
[11:28] <infinity> :)
[11:28] <infinity> The default limit now is pretty huge.
[11:28] <infinity> I run with a sources.list that's unreasonably large at times.
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[11:29] <mvo> i can easily kill it with tranlated package descriptions
[11:29] <HiddenWolf> Oh, and guys. I just got kicked out of usplash (albeit old version) when fsck decided it needed to check my /home. Nearly gave me a heart-attack. :P
[11:29] <hughsie> mjg59: phone, sorry
[11:29] <mvo> but yes, the limit is good otherwise :)
[11:30] <infinity> HiddenWolf : usplash has a timeout where it drops to the console if it hasn't seen any input for a while.
[11:30] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Yeah, that could be improved
[11:30] <HiddenWolf> I was just pionting out the heart-attack factor. 
[11:31] <sivang> does anyone know if we have a baz version of debpartial-mirror that's used for Ubuntu somewhere?
[11:31] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, added
[11:31] <HiddenWolf> I'd say in this case, you should have usplash print a message "we're checking to see if the disc is ok, this might take a _long_ time"  - the checking filesystem message it displays now is rather unfriendly. :P
[11:31] <sivang> (the installable package is configured to use sarge, and when modified just stops after fetching Packags.gz files)
[11:33] <mvo> mdz: do you have a opinion on #14228 (I tossed around some ideas)? 
[11:35] <infinity> sivang : Try debmirror, it sucks (a little) less.
[11:36] <infinity> sivang : Or, if you just want to exclude some architectures, try this script, wiht appropriate values filled in:
[11:36] <infinity> sivang : http://www.us.debian.org/mirrors/anonftpsync
[11:37] <sivang> infinity: yes, I want to grab the main ppc64 archive
[11:37] <infinity> sivang : powerpc, you mean.  There is no ppc64. :)
[11:37] <sivang> infinity: ah right :)
[11:38] <sivang> infinity: also to change fetching code to suit ubuntu, I use http://archive.ubuntu.com/dist/breezy ?
[11:38] <infinity> You missed an ubuntu in that URL.
[11:38] <sivang> infinity: sorry, that is http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/
[11:39] <infinity> Basically, if you're modifying debian mirror scripts, s/debian/ubuntu/ should be enough to get you where you want to be.
[11:40] <sivang> infinity: that holds for debmirror *and* anonftpsync ?
[11:41] <mjg59> mdz: And new acpi-support fixes the toshset depends
[11:42] <sivang> infinity: thx so far :)
[11:43] <infinity> Our archive layouts are identical ({ubuntu,debian}/{pool,dists}), we just have different compnent names (which most mirror scripts don't take into account unless you specifically specify components) and different dists (same argument)
[11:44] <infinity> specifically specify?... Yay redundancy.
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[11:47] <sivang> infinity: lol, say, what does --root signifies?
[11:48] <sivang> (Won't mirror without dists/breezy/main/binary-powerpc/Packages.gz signature in Release at /usr/bin/debmirror line 1174.)
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[11:49] <sivang> I guessed this error has something to do with that argument. probably wrong
[11:51] <infinity> sivang : debmirror /path/to/mirror -h archive.ubuntu.com -r /ubuntu -d breezy -a powerpc
[11:51] <infinity> (Add "-s main" to that if you don't want universe, which you probably don't, cause it's HUGE)
[11:52] <mdz> mvo: I think the upgrade-via-CD system needs more discussion
[11:52] <mdz> mvo: we need to decide exactly what it should mean to "upgrade"
[11:52] <mdz> I feel like we need a higher level preference file
[11:52] <mdz> sources.list is too random
[11:53] <sivang> infinity: gee thanks, now I see that I invoked it completely differnt
[11:53] <infinity> You could just dump everything in sources.list and prefer a dist with a pin.  <shudder>
[11:53] <infinity> Not intuitive for users to diagnose when it goes horribly wrong.
[11:55] <sivang> infinity: err, keep getting the previous error - am I missing a signed key for the archive?
[11:55] <mvo> I get a bunch of conffile questions on my upgrade, about random files in /etc/X11/app-defaults. is this a known issue?
[11:56] <infinity> mvo : Yes.
[11:56] <mvo> infinity: thanks
[11:56] <infinity> mvo : It's because the apps went away for a while and then came back.  Should be a nonissue for hoary->breezy upgrades, where the conffiles will just be migrating between packages.
[11:56] <mvo> infinity: ah, it's that dpkg bug 
[11:58] <JanC> WTF, Mandriva releases a security update of python because of a bug in _pcre_ ?
[11:58] <sivang> infinity: anyway, I'm out (gotta get some sleep for today) I am awaying my client, so just msg me or something and I'll catch that in the morning
[11:58] <JanC> python doesn't use pcre AFAIK ?
[12:00] <infinity> mvo : Not a bug, really.
[12:00] <infinity> mvo : Oh, well, I guess one part of it may be a bug.  <ponders>... Anyhow, it's worked around in the release->release upgrade case, and we'll double-check that.