[02:21] <Madpilot> anyone here? how do I change the email address my Ubuntu wiki/doc-list stuff comes to?
[02:56] <Madpilot> anyone able to tell me how to change my email address for the -docs list?
[03:07] <mpt> Madpilot: Look at the List-Info header for any mailing list message you receive
[03:07] <Madpilot> mpt: thanks
[04:03] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
[04:03] <jsgotangco> hi
[04:06] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille 
[04:07] <robitaille> hello Burgundavia 
[04:07] <jsgotangco> hmm im beginning to like OOo 2
[04:08] <jsgotangco> hmm i didnt know there was a kubuntu shop
[04:09] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  to continue on a discussion from the other night, here is the blog entry from joey hess about Ubuntu I mentioned: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/ubuntu_braindump-2004-10-21-00-43.html
[04:10] <robitaille> jsgotangco:  happy birthday! 
[04:10] <jsgotangco> robitaille, thanks
[04:13] <Burgundavia> robitaille, thanks for the info
[04:13] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, Madpilot, myself and robitaille got together the other night at Madpilot's place
[04:15] <Burgundavia> is the wiki down for anyone else?
[04:15] <Madpilot> yeah, the first Victoria Ubuntu meet - it was good to meet robitaille & spread cat5 all over my living room (no wireless here...)
[04:15] <jsgotangco> oohh so you finally had your first loco meeting
[04:15] <Madpilot> the wiki works fine here, Burgundavia
[04:15] <jsgotangco> our first loco meeting didnt have any computers at all (just beer)
[04:15] <Madpilot> we had computers but no beer (I was out...)
[04:15] <Madpilot> ;)
[04:16] <jsgotangco> robitaille, i've read this before somewhere..hmmm
[04:19] <jsgotangco> is it a good idea to show the latest breezy crack in a linuxworld talk?
[04:19] <Burgundavia> ok, now it works
[04:19] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, absolutely
[04:20] <robitaille> Madpilot:  ah...that's why I had to beg for water a couple of hours in the meeting :)
[04:20] <robitaille> a Victoria loco team has a nice ring to it :)  
[04:21] <Madpilot> robitaille: heh. sorry about that - I was getting pretty dry from all the talking myself by the time you all left
[04:22] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, what's our showstopper features? Gnome 2.12, OOo 2, KDE 3.x, LTSP, anything more?
[04:22] <Burgundavia> QuickTourDraft?
[04:22] <jsgotangco> right
[04:22] <robitaille> Evince!
[04:23] <jsgotangco> well i can't fit all those in one slide
[04:23] <jsgotangco> robitaille, Evince is part of 2.12
[04:23] <Madpilot> laptop support?
[04:23] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, right
[04:23] <jsgotangco> (with emphasis on rigorous testing)
[04:23] <Burgundavia> I got the basic html/css stuff going last night
[04:23] <Burgundavia> be porting the contents tonight and then into SVN RSN
[04:24] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: want to send me the HTML/CSS for a look & polishing?
[04:28] <Burgundavia> is one my laptop
[04:28] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[04:29] <jsgotangco> does anyone know what version of KDE we are shipping
[04:29] <Burgundavia> 3.4.2
[04:29] <jsgotangco> gotcha confirmed
[04:31] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: if you're going to send me the HTML/CSS, pls send to my gmail addy (or have you already?)
[04:32] <Burgundavia> not yet
[04:32] <Burgundavia> I will go offline for a short while
[04:57] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEyeCandy
[04:58] <Burgundavia> cool
[04:58] <Burgundavia> maybe swap the order, so that adding it before how to make it?
[04:58] <Madpilot> good point
[05:18] <mpt> Anyone here know if NetworkManager is going to make Breezy?
[05:18] <mpt> I'm trying to write instructions on how to connect with WPA in NetworkManager-less system, and it's horrid
[05:25] <robitaille> is there an easy way to lock a wiki page.  People keep adding themselves to the end of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Requests
[05:28] <Madpilot> robitaille: maybe you should add a big piece of text at the top AND bottom of the page saying it's closed?
[05:29] <robitaille> Madpilot:  yeah...that's what I was thinking.  I'll make it obvious, and point them to the correct testing page.
[05:34] <jsgotangco> mpt, im afraid it was deferred since NM is still quite immature
[05:35] <mpt> woo. hoo.
[05:35] <mpt> ok
[05:35] <jsgotangco> mpt, i believe my baz experience is caused by an old version hence i upgraded
[05:36] <mpt> ah
[05:36] <mpt> Maybe you got the version in main because of my initial incorrect instructions
[05:36] <mpt> rather than the version on bazaar.canonical.com
[05:36] <jsgotangco> yes so basically 1.5 should address it (although i haven't tested yet)
[05:37] <mpt> robitaille: For goodness sake, the page still says "we'll be sending some machines to community members". Before adding big text to the top and bottom, why not just fix the out-of-date info? :-)
[05:39] <mpt> not to mention complaining that people are adding themselves to the bottom of a table where the page says "please add yourself to the table below"
[05:40] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeFoot -> are we doing this in Breezy?
[05:41] <Madpilot> I"ve already done it to my Hoary install, just for fun
[05:41] <jsgotangco> i believe mpt griped about it after hoary got released
[05:42] <Madpilot> actually, I should edit GnomeFoot, because the Ubuntu forums have an easier way of doing it...
[05:45] <robitaille> mpt:  first line in bold characters: "This pages is left for the archive. At the current time, no new people will be accepted"
[05:46] <robitaille> personally I would be tempted to simply delete it...
[05:46] <jsgotangco> err where is the temp cache of firefox?
[05:47] <mpt> robitaille: Even so, no point in having it self-contradictory
[05:47] <mpt> but I've fixed the page now
[05:47] <robitaille> jsgotangco:  ~/.mozilla/firefox/[something random] /Cache
[05:48] <mpt> robitaille: Is there a separate page listing the people who actually got the laptops? (As opposed to the entire laptop testing team?)
[05:49] <Madpilot> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[05:50] <mpt> ah, so the page can be nuked then
[05:50] <mpt> I second your proposal robitaille
[05:50] <mpt> Do we have a thirder?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> mpt, Nm will not make Breezy
[05:54] <Burgundavia> mpt, code is not mature enough. Expect it for +1
[05:55] <Madpilot> mpt: you mean nuke the whole /Requests page?
[05:55] <mpt> Madpilot: yes
[05:56] <mpt> Burgundavia: Do you concur?

[05:56] <robitaille> Madpilot: yes.  It is there only for historical purposes.  People keep adding themselves even with the warnings.  And anyway we now have to add big bold links to the LaptopTestingTeam page
[05:56] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, mpt nuke the existing content and leave it as "Requests are closed"
[05:59] <mpt> 'tis done.
[06:00] <Burgundavia> http://verbosio.mozdev.org/
[06:01] <mpt> Darn, I thought you were pointing to some cool plug-in for helping writers pare down their words
[06:43] <Burgundavia> grr
[06:43] <Burgundavia> xchat doesn't handle the network going away very well
[06:46] <Madpilot> what are you doing? swapping one plug back and forth between desktop & laptop?
[06:47] <HrdwrBoB> hey
[06:47] <HrdwrBoB> some people can't afford network cables
[06:50] <Madpilot> routers are a good thing, too (but not very cheap, and they've stayed expensive while other stuff gets cheaper...)
[06:50] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:50] <Burgundavia> I have lots of cable
[06:50] <Burgundavia> should string it now
[06:52] <Madpilot> man - cheapest 10/100 router I can see at either of my usual online comp stores is ~$50 Cdn
[06:52] <Madpilot> which is exactly what I paid for mine two-three years ago... ick
[07:05] <mpt> ok, silly question
[07:05] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, you can get cheaper. 24 for a wired one
[07:05] <mpt> Where should my GPG fingerprint and public key live?
[07:05] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:05] <Burgundavia> .gpg?
[07:05] <Burgundavia> .gnupg
[07:05] <mpt> what's the exact filename? :-)
[07:06] <rob^> .gnupg
[07:06] <Burgundavia> secring.gpg?
[07:06] <rob^> look at the files under there
[07:06] <mpt> yes, I've already got that far
[07:07] <rob^> cant you just import the key?
[07:07] <mpt> I guess so
[07:07] <Burgundavia> mpt, seahorse is a nice gui program to handle keys
[07:07] <mpt> why didn't I think of that
[07:08] <mpt> thanks rob^ and Burgundavia
[07:08] <rob^> http://webber.dewinter.com/gnupg_howto/english/GPGMiniHowto.html#toc8
[07:08] <rob^> thats a good howto
[07:09] <rob^> umm elmo takes care of svn access doesn't he?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> indeed
[07:09] <rob^> I need a new password
[07:09] <Burgundavia> ping him
[07:10] <rob^> hes not here
[07:10] <Burgundavia> he is in -devel
[07:10] <rob^> yeah
[07:10] <rob^> I just noticed
[07:11] <mpt> ffs
[07:12] <Madpilot> mpt: you mean the virtual desktop switcher? :)
[07:13] <mpt> yes
[07:13] <rob^> heh
[07:13] <Burgundavia> mpt, I used to think that the virtual desktop thingy was bad for new users, but then I saw the feedback we got when it was suggest we remove it
[07:13] <Burgundavia> mpt, now I think I need more empirical evidence
[07:14] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: in other words, you need to see how Andrea reacts to it?
[07:14] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, ya
[07:14] <Madpilot> badly, I'm thinking
[07:14] <Burgundavia> and more
[07:14] <Burgundavia> I don't know that
[07:15] <mpt> Burgundavia: I;m very used to that kind of feedback
[07:15] <Burgundavia> the thread that was started about it suggested that virtual desktops were easier to understand than main task bars
[07:15] <Burgundavia> mpt, regardless, I would like to see more useful feedback
[07:15] <mpt> I guess the Firefox maintainers are too
[07:15] <Burgundavia> other than people saying "it is not useful"
[07:15] <Burgundavia> mpt, tabbed browsing?
[07:16] <mpt> no, things like everything people want to add to the context menus
[07:16] <Burgundavia> the context menus in FF are total crack
[07:16] <mpt> yeah
[07:17] <mpt> they should have just followed my spec :-)
[07:17] <mpt> but, they're not as bad as those in the Mozilla suite were.
[07:17] <Burgundavia> 12 items by default?
[07:17] <mpt> the Firefox devs have had a lot of practice at saying "no"
[07:17] <Burgundavia> indeed
[07:17] <mpt> as can be seen in their original manifesto
[07:18] <mpt> And I would disagree with people saying virtual desktops are "not useful"
[07:18] <mpt> I'm sure they are useful, for some people
[07:18] <mpt> but not for the sort of people who don't have the skill and courage to configure stuff like that
[07:19] <mpt> therefore they should be something you turn on, not something you turn off
[07:19] <Burgundavia> one major flaw with the desktop switcher is that it doesn
[07:19] <Madpilot> in Breezy are they on or off by default?
[07:19] <Burgundavia> t show you what application is focused on that desktop
[07:19] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, on
[07:19] <mpt> on
[07:20] <Burgundavia> likely one of the major discussions at Montreal
[07:22] <mpt> Was anything like that discussed at Sydney?
[07:22] <Burgundavia> no idea, ask jerome
[07:23] <mpt> The Ubuntu default panel setup could do with a fair bit of improvement
[07:23] <Burgundavia> we don't change much from default
[07:23] <Burgundavia> s/default/upstream default
[07:28] <mpt> hmm, gpg doesn't trust it
[07:28] <mpt> that could be a problem
[07:28] <rob^> check out that howto
[07:41] <rob^> hey, I just sent a patch for the faq guide to the list due to not having commit access until elmo resets my password, can someone apply it for me
[07:44] <Burgundavia> rob^, quite coincidentally, I was just thinking about documenting gstreamer-plugins-multiveres
[07:45] <rob^> yeah, I was doing some asking around
[07:45] <rob^> I asked about gstreamer0.8-lame not being there
[07:46] <rob^> 2 days later it was
[07:48] <rob^> grr I'm having some real issues with cdrecord
[07:50] <rob^> blanking cdrw's isn't working
[10:53] <jsgotangco> hey all
[10:53] <rob^> hey
[10:55] <jsgotangco> rob^: so you did loose your account
[10:57] <rob^> no
[10:58] <rob^> just didn't write down my password and had to do a reinstall
[10:59] <mdke> uhoh
[10:59] <mdke> still got your key?
[10:59] <rob^> nup
[11:00] <rob^> lost that too
[11:00] <rob^> I was playing with my fonts and broke something
[11:00] <mdke> oh no
[11:00] <rob^> it was late.. I wasn't thinking.
[11:00] <mdke> always backup your key
[11:01] <mdke> have you got a revocation cert.
[11:01] <rob^> maybe..
[11:01] <rob^> I did make one
[11:01] <mdke> ok cool
[11:01] <mdke> well for now we are happy to apply your patches
[11:01] <mdke> its no problem
[11:02] <rob^> hmm I must have nuked that too
[11:02] <mdke> i'll bbl
[11:02] <mdke> sorry I haven't done any reviewing of the faqguide yet
[11:02] <rob^> thats ok
[11:03] <mdke> i'm moving house so it's gonna be a bit tricky right now
[11:03] <jsgotangco> hey mdke
[11:03] <jsgotangco> im quite busy myself
[11:03] <mdke> jsgotangco, hi, i'm just on my way off
[11:03] <jsgotangco> i have yet to finish my slides
[11:04] <rob^> any one have any idea how to flip upside down and inverse a video?
[11:04] <rob^> we recorded an install using vmware, but it turned out weard
[11:14] <jsgotangco> i'll review your docs later
[11:14] <rob^> cool
[11:18] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:18] <jsgotangco> i see you have made an Ubuntu presentation before
[11:18] <rob^> yep
[11:18] <rob^> :)
[11:18] <jsgotangco> i need it for LinuxWorld
[11:18] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:18] <rob^> cool go right ahead
[12:36] <klepas> moin moin
[12:37] <rob^> .
[12:37] <Madpilot> ?
[12:38] <rob^> "
[12:38] <Madpilot> |
[12:38] <rob^> !
[12:38] <rob^> yay lets chew logs
[12:39] <klepas> hey guys
[12:39] <rob^> hi
[12:39] <Madpilot> someone from the UK just created this quite, quite clueless page on getting to the Montreal confrence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/TravelHints
[12:39] <rob^> heh
[12:40] <Madpilot> there isn't any point in flying to Halifax if you're going to Montreal, it's still another 2+ hrs by air Halifax->Montreal...
[12:40] <Madpilot> I'm not sure how impolite I should be in pointing this out...
[12:41] <rob^> just add it to the page....
[12:41] <Madpilot> am doing that - trying to get Air Canada's useless website to work with Opera to get actual travel times...
[12:46] <klepas> do any of you folks know what happened to the art team as of late?
[12:57] <klepas> anyone home?
[12:58] <Madpilot> hi
[10:01] <mpt> Burgundavia, NetworkManager wiki page seems to need updating :-)
[10:11] <Burgundavia> mpt, not surprised
[10:29] <Burgundavia> mpt, g-a-i is not a userfacing name
[10:30] <Burgundavia> mpt, and g-a-i is most there for SoftwareManager
[10:35] <mpt> "most there"?
[10:35] <Burgundavia> mostly there
[10:36] <Burgundavia> it needs some work with UI and some corner cases (multimedia codecs, etc.)
[10:40] <mpt> If there still needs to be two other graphical programs doing intersecting jobs, I'd disagree with that "mostly" :-)
[10:41] <Burgundavia> you think g-a-i should also do updating?
[10:41] <Burgundavia> that is not hard, just have a button inside it call the update manager
[10:41] <mpt> No, I think what I wrote in the spec
[10:42] <mpt> That doesn't solve the problem, it's still multiple interfaces
[10:42] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:42] <mpt> This isn't like, say, Gimp, which can perform hugely complicated tasks, so you might reasonably ship a simple paint program as well (but notice that Ubuntu doesn't)
[10:43] <mpt> even installing and uninstalling packages is a pretty trivial task
[10:43] <Burgundavia> there is no simply paint program for linux
[10:53] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences?action=diff
[10:53] <Burgundavia> is that stuff in our svn?