hughsiemjg59: sorry, off the phone now12:02
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mjg59hughsie: No problem12:03
mjg59hughsie: I have an irritating feeling that hald-acpi-addon is just not being installed into the package12:03
hughsiemjg59: maybe. Mine isn;t being run too, and that's with CVS12:04
mjg59Well, the Debian hal binary package doesn't have it in12:05
mjg59Whereas it's certainly built12:05
infinitysivang : Add "-s main"... It's looking for debian-style components (non-free, contrib) otherwise.12:05
mjg59Oh, no, I'm being stupid - it's built and installed12:06
mjg59I just can't spell "addon"12:06
hughsiemjg59: heh12:06
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mjg59hughsie: Ok, so hal bug12:08
hughsiemjg59: yeh, just chasing12:08
hughsiemjg59: it runs, but exits. not cool.12:09
mdzmjg59: toshset is root-only, right?  no setuid madness or anything?12:12
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mjg59mdz: It just needs write access to the device node, so yeah12:13
mjg59Usplash suddenly looks sexy12:15
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mdzmjg59: I'm not sure why the module-init-tools message is broken12:21
mjg59mdz: Which one?12:22
mdzmjg59: I get "Loading modules..." in green hanging off the right side of the text box12:22
mjg59Oh, right12:22
mjg59Because it's too long, and stuff over there never gets blanked12:22
mjg59Possibly there should be some magic linebreaking support12:22
mdzmjg59: no, I also see "TEXT" flash by12:23
mjg59mdz: Ah - which version of usplash?12:23
mdzmjg59: 0.1-412:23
mjg59mdz: Fixed that today12:23
mdz            usplash_write "TEXT $@" || true12:23
mjg59It was happening when multiple writes went by before usplash was scheduled12:24
mdzoh, good, X doesn't start on my laptop anymore12:24
mjg59Grab the new one and watch the enhanced prettiness12:25
mdzdoing it12:25
mjg59Oh yes12:27
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mdzI get a colored band on the left side of the screen; is that intentional?12:27
mjg59Uhm. Mm?12:27
mjg59No, that shouldn't be happening12:27
mdzit's about the color of the "ubuntu" text12:27
mdzlight brown12:28
mdzI don't think it was happening, before, but it would ahve been hard to tell with the old background12:28
mjg59Let me take a look here12:28
mjg59No, I don't get that here12:29
mjg59I'll add linebreak support to deal with the longer lines12:30
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mdzmjg59: would a photo help?12:31
mjg59mdz: Sure, why not?12:31
mdzoh, hmm, I think I see what it is12:31
mdzI think it's a monitor adjustment problem12:31
mjg59Then we just need it to be started earlier in initramfs12:32
mdzwe should definitely do that12:32
mdzand modify initramfs to kill it if it drops to a shell12:32
mdzmaybe jbailey can add a hook for that12:33
mdzok, after readjusting my monitor it looks sweet again12:33
mjg59Just add it to the panic code12:33
mjg59Is Mark still at akadamy?12:33
mjg59He seems to be missing out on the sexiness12:35
mdzwhat are we going to do about usplash artwork for kubuntu?12:35
mdzwe should probably move the artwork out into ubuntu-artwork12:35
mjg59Hrm. Good question.12:35
mjg59jdub: We can still use another couple of colours in the artwork, if that'd help12:35
mdzmjg59: can we get anti-aliased fonts?12:35
mjg59mdz: Nngh.12:35
mjg59mdz: Not easily. We can probably get a more attractive one, though12:36
mjg59We can use any bdf font12:36
mjg59Anti-aliasing would require someone to write support for it in bogl12:36
mjg59(ie, not me)12:37
jbaileymdz, mjg59: Dropping to a shell is already handled by a 'panic' function.12:38
jbaileySo that part is easy.12:39
jbaileymjg59: Did you get usplash working in the init-top hook on that 0.25 I posted?12:39
mdzmjg59: could we choose a font with anti-aliasing built into it?  are the fonts grayscale?12:39
mjg59jbailey: Nope. Not sure what's up there.12:39
mjg59mdz: They're bitmap fonts12:39
mjg59I'm not sure if they're greyscale or not12:39
mdzmjg59: bitmap fonts can have anti-aliasing if they're grayscale12:39
jbaileymjg59: That's before any modules have been loaded at all.12:40
mdzwe need to make hotplug faster12:40
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HiddenWolfmdz s/hotplug/ubuntu12:43
mdzmjg59: the "ok" isn't green anymore12:43
mdzHiddenWolf: no, actually I meant what I wrote12:43
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mdzmjg59: also, ARGH TOSHSET BAD12:55
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mdzmjg59: it displays some blaring warning about how it's useless on ACPI-enabled kernels12:55
mdzmjg59: which is sort of unfriendly considering that our default kernels are ACPI-enabled12:55
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HiddenWolfmdz, lol, I was just about to mention that.12:55
mjg59mdThe green is removed, yeah. Jeff wasn't keen on it - it makes things visually noisier for no especially good reason12:56
mjg59mdz: Oh, crap. I'll hack that out.12:56
mjg59It's entirely wrong.12:56
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mjg59mdz: BDF appears to be b&w12:59
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mdzmjg59: is there a baz repository for acpi-support, or is the source tarball it?01:07
mjg59mdz: http://people.debian.org/~mjg59/acpi-support01:07
mjg59It's bzr rather than baz01:07
mdzmjg59: ok, I'll send you merge requests rather than uploading it in the future01:08
mjg59mdz: No problem01:08
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mjg59mdz: There's a usplash one there as well01:09
mdzmjg59: I just uploading acpi-support to fix its log_begin_msg01:10
mjg59mdz: Cool, thanks01:10
mjg59mdz: Could you possibly send me a diff?01:10
mdzmjg59: done01:11
mdzit's a one-liner01:11
mjg59mdz: Ta01:11
CarlFK_should a user be able to connect/disconnect a dialup ISP connection?  (sorry if this was answered, my connection is bouncing)01:11
mjg59CarlFK_: Using gnome-modem-applet, yeah01:11
mjg59Though it requires them to have sudo01:11
CarlFK_mjg59 - ok - I was thinking the sudo thing was bug01:12
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sebest_is the icon next to update-notified notification a bulb?01:13
mjg59sebest_: Yeah. It's to tell you that you have a message related to an update.01:15
sebest_mjg59, thanx, but i mean the notification from notify-daemon01:15
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CarlFK_mjg59 - do you know of any "official" like docs besides: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialUpSupport ?01:16
mjg59CarlFK_: Nope01:16
sebest_because i'm using the dbus api of notify-daemon on breezy and i can't set another icons other than the default bulb, so i wanted to know if update-notifier was able to do this01:16
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CarlFK_I am having trouble beliving noone is bothered by needing sudo to make a dialup connection01:16
mjg59Oh, right, I see what you mean01:17
mjg59No idea01:17
mjg59CarlFK_: Either it needs sudo, or it means that any user can override the default routing01:17
infinityCarlFK : Is it required even if you're in the dip group?01:17
mjg59infinity: Yes01:18
infinityErr, dialout.01:18
carstenhCarlFK_: never used dialup with ubuntu, but in debian you have to be in the group dip to be allowed to start a dialup connection as ordinary user01:18
mjg59infinity: It launches pppd directly, rather than using pon or poff01:18
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infinitymjg59 : Oh, yes, that would requite root.01:18
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infinityrequire, too.01:19
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infinityOh, for the love of...01:25
CarlFK_system, users and groups, user privs: "user can connect to the net using a modem" - shouldn't that remove the sudo requirement?01:25
infinitymjg59 : Why are we promoting things to main that are unbuildable? (toshset)01:25
infinitymjg59 : Doesn't build with g++4.0, the binary in the archive is still the one from hoary compiled with g++-3.301:26
mjg59infinity: Because it provides necessary functionality01:26
infinitymjg59 : Could we fix it to build? :)01:26
infinitymjg59 : It's unsupportable ATM, since it doesn't build with build-essential.01:26
mjg59CarlFK_: The mechanism used for connecting to the net via dialup requires root01:26
mjg59There's a good argument for providing a suid wrapper that's only executable by a subset of users01:27
mjg59But someone would need to implement that01:27
infinitymjg59 : Ahh, there's a patch in the Debian BTS to make it build.01:27
mjg59infinity: Excellent01:27
whiprushinfinity: kudos dude, you're a machine.01:27
infinitymjg59 : I'll upload a fix and stop bugging you.01:27
mjg59infinity: Thanks! :)01:28
infinityActually, I'll cheat and fake a sync of 1.69-201:28
infinityNo one look.01:28
CarlFK_mjg59 - so what does that "user priv: can connect..." option govern?01:28
mjg59CarlFK_: Sorry, I dropped off. Which bit are you referring to?01:28
CarlFK_system, users and groups, user privs: "user can connect to the net using a modem" - shouldn't that remove the sudo requirement?01:29
CarlFK_it is a checkbox in the user admin gui01:29
mjg59That refers to the pon/poff mechanism, not the one used by gnome-modem-applet01:29
CarlFK_ah, so if that is checked, they can use pon from a prompt? 01:29
mjg59They ought to be able to01:30
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infinityOn second though, we should just sync 1.70-101:33
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infinitymdz : Still around?01:33
ajmitchyay, more x breakage, using ls in /var/lib/dpkg/info sometimes isn't good01:33
infinitywhiprush : Which machinery are you referring to?... The cairo/glitz stuff?01:34
whiprushinfinity: yeah, you've been rebuilding stuff for what ... 7+ some days now?01:35
whiprushincluding the weekends.01:35
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infinitywhiprush : The only packages left to transition are oregano (needs to be updated for the new cairo API), fdclock (same), network-manager (out of sync with DBUS APIs), and gcc-snapshot (waiting on doko to roll a new CVS snap)... Everything else is fixed now.01:36
ajmitchinfinity: great, you're making the MOTUs redundant :)01:36
whiprushI was just noting your inhuman stamina.01:36
infinityajmitch : No, you guys getr to hunt down every FTBFS I leave in my dust.  Thpt. :)01:37
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infinityajmitch : oregano being a fine example.  I have no urge to fix it. :)01:37
ajmitchinfinity: that's the fun part01:37
ajmitchit's on my fixit list01:37
infinityajmitch : Don't worry about fdclock, daniels will update it from freedesktop CVS.01:38
infinityajmitch : cworth has already committed the required fixes.01:38
slomoinfinity: i already have... i only need someone to upload ;)01:38
ajmitchoregano will probably be a new upstream version to fix it01:39
infinityslomo : Oh, you already pulled cworth's fixes?01:39
slomoinfinity: sure01:39
ajmitchassuming I'm allowed 01:39
infinityslono : Cool.  Then find someone to upload for you.  I don't think daniels is overly protective of his clock. :)01:39
slomoinfinity: ok, i'll try :) but when you want to take a look: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=50901:40
infinitymjg59 : You should probbaly just request a sync of toshset 1.70-1 from Debian.  The only thing in the diff is the gcc-4.0 fixes, a manpage typo correction, and an added ID for another Toshiba laptop.01:44
infinitymjg59 : I can't see anyone disallowing a UVF exception on that.01:44
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mjg59infinity: Ok01:45
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mdzinfinity: yes01:55
infinitymdz : See above.  Permission to break UVF for toshset for gcc-4.0 fixes, a manpage correction, and one added device ID?01:56
infinitymdz : That's the entirety of the diff.01:56
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mdzinfinity: yes01:58
infinitymdz : Danke.01:59
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infinityelmo : Please sync toshset 1.70-1 from Debian, permission granted by mdz for UVF exception.01:59
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mdzinfinity: have you foregone your native timezone entirely?02:05
infinityNo, I'm still awake. :)02:05
infinityThe nap option is sounding good, but I may force myself to stay up.02:05
infinityI got a cold over the weekend, and was up all night coughing.02:06
infinityFigure I may as well work, since I couldn't sleep.02:06
mdzmjg59: still around?02:06
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mdzelmo: my word, cron.daily is a lot faster now02:11
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mjg59mdz: Hi02:13
mdzmjg59: wanted to talk about usplash and casper02:15
mdzmjg59: can't remember if you answered this already or not02:16
mdzdo I need to mess with any kernel modules, or can i just start usplash with the framebuffer set up by d-i?02:16
mjg59Assuming that d-i on the livecd loads vga16, that'll be fine02:18
mdzit does02:19
mdzI'm not sure it loads the other stuff that the initramfs usplash script does, though02:19
mjg59If it modprobes it, it'll be fine02:20
mjg59It insmods stuff by hand due to issues with modprobe at that point of initramfs02:20
mjg59(haven't tracked that down yet)02:20
mdzinfinity: so long as you've given up on sleep, can you tell me why pppconfig didn't build?02:22
mdzmjg59: ah, splendid02:22
jbaileymjg59: I think most of the need for that  is probably gone now.  There've been a few bugs fixed where it was spuriously adding .ko, or where it was losing modules on the way.02:23
infinitymdz : Uhh, cause it's not in wanna-build?02:24
infinitymdz : Which usually means it's arch:all (probably is), and is currently installed.02:24
mdzinfinity: interesting; it's been a cron.daily since I uploaded it, and it's in Sources02:24
mdzmjg59: so the only sticking point in usplash-for-casper is that udev will mount over /dev02:25
_derekmdz: thanks for the comment/reassigning of bug 1412002:25
mdzI suppose I could do what initramfs does, and move the mount over02:26
mdzbut that's more intrusive than I'd like02:26
mjg59mdz: Hmm02:26
mjg59mdz: Hrm.02:27
mdzI could invoke /etc/init.d/udev early, I guess02:27
mjg59There's not really a good way around that02:27
mjg59Basically, we need a fifo that'll be there from the point usplash is started until you finish writing to it02:27
infinitymdz : Hrm.  I don't see it in any logs on the i386 buildds... And it's not reigstered in w-b... Either it's waiting on another cron.daily to right itself, or something's very confused.02:27
mdzI think running /etc/init.d/udev start before usplash would be ok02:27
mdzinfinity: we'll find out in a few minutes, then02:28
mdzmuch usplash love landed in the last cron.daily02:28
infinityIndeed.  How fast is daily now?02:28
mdzinfinity: it was finished at :1102:28
infinityNot bad.02:28
mdzI'm not really sure; I just loaded up my "wait-for-cron.daily" finger macros and discovered it wasn't running02:29
infinityThat's a sign that we need to run it every 15 minutes instead.02:29
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mdzI don't think elmo has fully recovered from the 24h->30m transition yet02:32
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infinitymdz : I wonder if the jackass switchover may have goofed something with the hack used for arch:all building.02:44
infinitymdz : Still not listed in wanna-build.  I'll kick it manually, but remind me to poke elmo about it.02:44
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infinitymdz : Uploaded.02:47
jdubmjg59: yeah, have two spare on that image02:47
mdzinfinity: thanks, remember to poke elmo about it02:47
jdubmjg59: but it looks terrible when i use it with usplash02:47
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jdubjbailey: ahr?02:50
jbaileyjdub: Are you a pirate now? 02:50
jdubi am a pirate MAN02:50
jdubactually, i lie02:50
jdubi am a pirate ANDROID02:51
jbaileyHe is a pirate, horror!02:51
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jdubi am not a pirate horror02:51
jdubthough i can put on a horror face02:51
jdubyou were in #grub02:51
jbaileyjdub: You'd better on Hallowe'en. =)02:51
jbaileyjdub: stalker02:51
jdubthat means i'm going to ask you my hard question about grub02:51
jbaileyjdub: Alright.  But I'm best suited to answer questions about grub2 on powerpc. =)02:52
jbaileyjdub: And I occasionally help  the guy who's porting it to Sparc. 02:52
jdubwell, this is general02:52
jdubyou know that "i am about to do the following..." spew after the item is selected in grub?02:52
jdubit clears the screen, says, "Booting Pirate OS..."02:52
jduband then blah blah smeg irrelevant blather YELL YELL BIFF THWACK02:53
jdubcan we get rid of that? :-)02:53
jdublike, if quiet is in the boot line, never show it?02:53
jbaileyUmm,...  Parsing the kernel command line seems like the wrong way to determine that.02:53
jbaileyHow about if the menu wasn't shown or somethign ilke that?02:54
jdubwell, it could be an option for each stanza02:54
jdubeven if the menu was shown, i'd far prefer to see02:54
jdubgrub menu -> pause -> usplash02:54
jdubinstead of02:54
jdubgrub menu ->02:54
jdubbooting your os now ->02:54
jdubgrub process spew ->02:54
jdubuncompressing your os now ->02:55
jdubaudit 9823749823487 ->02:55
jbaileyI already asked benc and them about the audit line.02:55
jdubthe other distros that have evil bootsplash-in-kernel02:55
jdubonly show a flash of the yucky output02:55
jdubbut they are evil02:55
mjg59jdub: Mm?02:56
mjg59jdub: Have you tried the usplash I uploaded today?02:56
jduboh, no02:56
jdubi tried putting it in myself and it looked like baby spew after fingerpainting class02:56
mjg59There was a tiny bit of code hacking needed02:56
jbaileyjdub: So you want basically another command in there "stfu" or something like that to silence everything from the menu name to "booting your kernel" right?02:56
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mjg59apt-get install usplash lsb-base and then regenerate your initrd02:57
jdubjbailey: that'd be elite02:57
jdubmjg59: woohoo :-)02:57
jbaileyjdub: If I do this, will I get beaten by the mdz feature freeze stick of doom?02:57
mjg59jdub: Do it. POP THE TRUNK.02:57
jdubjbailey: it's totally a bug fix man02:57
whiprushtrunk monkey!02:57
mjg59We can hack grub to get rid of its output, and we can trivially fix the kernel to get rid of that fucking "initialising audit" crap02:58
jbaileyMhm.  02:58
jbaileyjdub: Do I get a bug number that I can close so that we keep this fiction going? =)02:58
jdubi think there is a bug in there somewhere about it, actually02:58
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mjg59jdub: How long until you get to test usplash?03:02
mjg59I don't want to miss your reaction03:02
jdubthere has been an OOo2 update03:03
mjg59Oh man03:03
mjg59And you're in bandwidth hell03:03
jdubnot so much these days03:03
jdub1.5MB down03:03
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mjg59Hmm. Better than me at the moment.03:04
mjg59That was bizarre.03:04
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jdubmjg59: well, that's 1.5MB within the country03:05
mjg59The TV suddenly said "Just do it, DO IT"03:06
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mdzmjg59: usplashoriffic casper uploaded03:09
infinityHrm, casper is arch:all too.03:09
infinityGuess we get to see if your ppconfig issue was an isolated incident.03:10
mdzat least, those of us who are still awake will03:10
mjg59mdz: Indescribable rock03:10
mjg59I need to sort the PPC usplash at some stage03:10
mjg59There's very little that needs to be done03:10
mjg59But someone needs to write a bogl_move routine for non-vga16 framebuffers03:11
infinityI'm still awake, technically.03:11
mdzinfinity: but I hope not for much longer03:11
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infinityI'm somewhere between "I should try to stay up all day, so I don't end up backawards" and "oh god, just let me die right now"03:12
mdzmjg59: the casper stuff is somewhat academic at this point because we have like a minute of (partly interactive) d-i spew before we can start it up, but it will make silbs happy03:12
infinityThe latter's likely to win at any moment.03:12
mjg59mdz: Yeah03:12
infinityBut not until I get casper for you.03:12
mjg59mdz: There's no way to tie it into d-i?03:12
mdzmjg59: for breezy+1 I think I am going to ditch d-i for the live CD03:12
mdzand just have a simple initramfs03:12
jdubmdz, mjg59: so how easy will it be to brand usplash on the livecd?03:12
jdubmdz: ooh!03:12
mdzjdub: same as branding it anywhere else03:13
jdubmdz: 'cept it's totally pre-cloop pain03:13
mjg59jdub: Is requiring a package rebuild ok?03:13
jdubmjg59: that's not so bad03:13
jdubbut it will also mean putting a new initrd on the non-cloop bit03:14
mjg59Hmm. Yes.03:14
mdzjdub: all it needs to do is load enough kernel stuff to find the CD-ROM and mount the cloop; casper can do everything else from inside there03:14
jdubmjg59: this is the bit that will make people scared a bit03:14
mjg59jdub: If it's going to be started in the initramfs, there's no obvious way around having the picture in the initramfs03:15
Lathiatoh no03:18
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Lathiatthe sptial mode discussion has errupted again03:18
HrdwrBoBspatial mode, home as desktop is winner for me03:18
wasabiI'd be for home as desktop if home didn't traditionally have other stuff.03:20
jdubLathiat: whereabouts?03:21
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jdubthat's just murray03:24
mjg59jdub: Well, he's got something of a point03:24
mjg59In three releases, we've shipped three different defaults03:24
mjg59And only one of them has matched upstream's03:24
Lathiatthe new tree thing brings up a new point03:25
wasabiOh geeze. Just as I get used to explaining to all my friends why spatial is better, and start to get some converts.03:25
Lathiatpersoanlly, i like browse mode, but thats just me03:25
wasabiI just "got used" to spatial.03:25
jdubmjg59: and this one is the right one, which we should've done last time (modulo browser improvements)03:26
jdubmjg59: his point about spatial is irrelevant03:26
jduband wrong03:26
mjg59jdub: I think this version is better than Hoary's. I'm pretty sure you argued in favour of spatial for Warty :)03:27
wasabiIt's funny to see everybody run to the other side of the room.03:27
jdubmjg59: nup03:27
jdubmjg59: i wasn't fully committed (because browse mode sucked back then), but i did push for browse03:28
infinityI like whatever mode shuts the most people up, because my file browser is gnome-terminal, cd, and ls.03:28
mjg59jdub: Ok, fair enough03:28
jdubmjg59: i've always loved spatial as a feature, but it punches real users in the face03:28
wasabiDefine "real users".03:29
jdubpeople who don't like technology for technology's sake, who use the computer to get their job done,  not for the sake of using their computer03:29
mjg59To be honest, I'm happy with either (I grew up with an OS that used something similar to spatial). The fact that we *keep changing* sucks.03:29
mjg59If there's a commitment to staying with browser mode in future, then fine03:30
jdubmjg59: sabdfl welcomes your blame :)03:30
mdzinfinity: if you need to kick casper, make sure you get 1.9 (not 1.8)03:30
mjg59It's not necessarily the mode I'll use, but I don't think it's a default people would be unhappy with03:30
wasabiOdd. All "real users" i've given spatial too... those who weren't proficcient in any previous OS, got their work done fine.03:30
mjg59wasabi: People will get their work done fine in either mode03:30
wasabiI guess.03:31
jdub"What are all these windows all over my screen?"03:31
jdubthat is why spatial is a cool feature for geeks, but is irrelevant for real users03:31
wasabiHey, I still have the opinion I had back when spatial was first introduced. I think it is BETTER for complete novices with no computer experience. Weither that is "real users" or not, i dunno.03:32
HrdwrBoBmy inlaws use spatial03:32
HrdwrBoBthey don't even notice03:32
wasabiMy MOM uses it.03:33
HrdwrBoBall they said was the computer seems faster since I put ubuntu on it03:33
wasabiDoesn't even know what the back button in a browser really does, though.03:33
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mdzinfinity: cron.daily finished in <4 minutes03:37
mdzthis new box rocks03:37
mdzinfinity: oh, it's a dual opteron with a decent raid card now.  no wonder.03:38
jbaileyJust saw the new usplash.  Purty. =)03:38
Lathiatssh dont spoil it :)03:39
jdubfor what it's worth, i replied to the original mail03:43
infinitymdz : Meh.  Same problem.  Needs a manual shove.  I'll be sure to deliver a WTF to elmo aboiut it when our timezones match again.03:44
tgall_fooevening jdub 03:44
mdzinfinity: how about sending an email?03:44
mjg59My AUNT TILLIE thinks that browser mode is worse than paedophiles03:44
infinitymdz : Well, yes, that works too. :)  Give me a break, I'm dead on my feet. :)03:46
jdubyo tgall_foo 03:46
mdzinfinity: you need to sleep more03:46
mdzinfinity: we'll need you in top shape for preview week03:46
mdz...which is next week03:47
jbaileyinfinity: So go exercise.03:47
infinitymdz : Mailed.03:48
infinitymdz : casper uploaded, I'm off to nap.03:48
mjg59Oh christ we're releasing preview next week?03:49
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martinaldis there any movement on bugs 11237 and/or 1352103:50
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jbaileymartinald: No.  I don't think there's anythign I can do under 11237 is done.03:52
jbaileymartinald: Well, I'm going to look at hwdetect03:52
jbaileySee if I can force load them, but in general the answer to your question is 'no'03:52
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mdzmartinald: generally, when the status of a bug changes, it is updated in bugzilla.  so there's no need to ask about bugs here; just add yourself to the CC list in bugzilla.03:59
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lifelessmdz: so for me to upload stuff to ubuntu .. I've signed the Coc, and am a DD now.04:02
lifelessmdz: what next ?04:02
mdzlifeless: apply to become a maintainer04:02
mdzlifeless: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate#code04:03
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lifelessmdz: so, care to suggest a mentor, or do I grab one at random ? 04:06
mdzlifeless: feel free to ask someone you know; you know enough ubuntu devlopers I expect ;-)04:07
mdzlifeless: otherwise, #ubuntu-motu04:07
lifelessI'll ask keybuk04:08
lifelesswhat is meant by 'substantial' - its used a lot in the process documentation ...04:08
mdzdepends on context04:09
lifelessother than being upstream for several packages, and being package maintainer for bicycle-repair, I'm not sure what stuff I can claim as being direct contributions to /Ubuntu/04:10
ajmitchlifeless: help out the MOTUs, please :)04:10
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lifeless'becoming a maintainer'04:10
lifeless^^ the context04:10
mdzsubstantial in the case of contributions to ubuntu means actual, concrete, observable work done on the distribution04:10
mdzof a significant magnitude04:11
jdubmdz: he maintains our revision control system? :)04:12
mdzjdub: the one that isn't used for ubuntu development yet? ;-P04:12
lifelessI guess I'm concerned that I won't be able to deliver that level of work in my spare time - as I definately won't be doing it during work.04:12
jdubi hear pitti uses it04:12
mdzpitti uses bzr04:12
lifelessmdz: which I am full time on ;004:12
Lathiatlifeless: ah you moved from baz?04:13
mdzI'm not trying to be difficult, but we can't offer maintainership to anyone based solely on being upstream for a package in Ubuntu04:13
lifelessbaz is in maintenance mode04:13
Lathiati tried bzr out yesterday with ajmitch, and we synced our repos over ipv6 :) woot.04:13
lifelessmdz: I know. I'm going down this path because you suggested someone in my team should do that so we can upload our own baz/etc packages.04:13
mdzlifeless: do you maintain the debian/* for baz?04:13
lifelessmdz: I maintain the master copy for it in baz itself, but bob2 has been the guy tweaking that for debian.04:14
mdzsince we use that verbatim, that'd be qualifying work04:14
jdubLathiat: OVER IPV6! THE FUTURE!04:14
lifelessI maintain bicycle-repair's debian package, which you also use verbatim.04:14
Lathiatjdub: YES!04:14
Lathiatso we coudl sync to our laptops on remote networks directly :)04:14
jbaileyLathiat: Ah, he hadn't said who that was with.04:15
Lathiatand im advertising my repository over mDNS/DNS-SD nto that its much use to anyone ;p04:15
jdubmdz: btw, j^ is going the motu route for n-m in universe04:15
Lathiatjdub: rock04:15
whiprushoh dudes, 3 laptops today with j^'s packages04:15
whiprushnothing but nice.04:15
jdubLathiat: mpool would be keen to get dns-sd support into bzr :)04:15
jdubwhiprush: UNPLUG!04:15
whiprushhe's even got the vpnc thing going on04:16
whiprushunfortunatly I can't test that04:16
Lathiatyeh if only my unis network worked with vpnc :(04:16
jdubwhiprush: "stargazing: cool stuff in the ubuntu universe" as a pre-breezy article04:16
whiprushjdub: just tell me what to do.04:16
Lathiati ethereald it, it seems to send th esame packet type, i'll have to figure out whats different04:16
lu|awaywhere are j^'s packages?04:16
whiprushI can do that + my 10x10 idea04:16
jdub## j^'s NetworkManager04:16
jdubdeb http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ ./04:16
=== lu|away can't risk having the network go down right now, but maybe later
lifelessmdz: so - baz's packaging, bicycle-repair's packaging are two packages. 04:16
jdubrock on :)04:17
jdubwhiprush: even just a list of cool stuff in universe would be a good start04:17
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whiprushgive me a day or two.04:17
Lathiatnow i just need to find ross04:17
whiprushlu|away: it has a startup script thing and everything04:18
whiprushyou just install, and go.04:18
lu|awaywhiprush: well, so, typically with NM I install, and 3-5 minutes later my kernel hangs04:18
whiprushit does the Right Thing inbetween suspends too04:18
lu|awayso until my fantasy football draft is complete I can't risk it. :)04:18
whiprushwhat wifi card?04:18
jdublu|away: what network cards do you have?04:19
whiprushsame problem04:19
whiprushuntil the other day04:19
lu|awaywhiprush: ?04:19
whiprushthe latest l-r-m has no problems for me04:19
whiprushthat used to happen to me04:19
whiprushrandom lockups when scanning04:19
whiprushor doing wifi-type stuff04:19
jdubyeah, it'll be up and down, just due to the combination of prop driver and n-m support for its breakages04:19
wasab1Hmm. jbailey, a week ago 2.5.12 was not putting evms support into the initramfs, did you ever hear about that?04:19
whiprushlatest updates should do the trick04:20
lu|awaywell, right, though other network management tools don't hurt atheros quite so bad as to hurt my kernel04:20
whiprushI feel your pain, I was close to buying a new card 04:20
lu|awaybut yeah, I'm glad to hear things have gotten worked around or whatever04:20
lu|awaythat is quite awesome04:20
jdubquick guide:04:20
jdubinstall n-m04:20
jdubremove /etc/rc*.d/*bind*04:20
jdubrestart dbus04:20
jdubstart nm-applet04:21
whiprushhmmm, I didn't have to mangle bind or dbus04:21
jdubyou can't run two binds at the same time :)04:21
jduband n-m really wants to be on the system dbus04:21
whiprushwell, I'm pretty sure most people won't have a bind running alreadt04:21
=== wasab1 raises hands.
jbaileywasab1: Yes, I know abaout that.04:21
=== lifeless thinks he chased mdz away :[
jdubwhiprush: when you reboot, and the bind startup scripts run bind, then you do :)04:22
jbaileywasab1: Do you do evms?  Will you be a guinea pig? =)04:22
wasab1jbailey: yes and sured.04:22
jbaileywasab1: Lovely!04:22
mdzlifeless: I have a ton of work to do; was there a question in there?04:22
whiprushjdub: saw your posts about that earlier, I've rebooted like 5 times, no difference, still just working04:22
jdubjbailey: oh crap, i haven't rebooted for you04:22
whiprushunless it's doing some something in the background it shouldn't be04:22
jbaileyjdub: It's all good.  I'm trying to remember off hand which bug was yours.. =)04:23
jbaileyDSDT handling?04:23
jdubwhiprush: sudo netstat -pan | grep $(pidof named)04:23
jdubjbailey: that one's fixed04:23
jdubjbailey: mdrun funniness on my server04:23
mdzlifeless: the next tech board meeting is 2005-09-06, but because of the preview release, it might be pushed out a week or more04:23
jbaileyOh right.  Where if the last device I touched wasn't raid then I assumed there was no raid in the system.04:23
jbaileyjdub: Ought to be fixed, I'd appreciate it when you have time.04:24
jdubi'll do it now04:24
jbaileyjdub: You just want to see the new usplash, admit it. =)04:24
wasab1evms should totally be the default vol management system. ;)04:24
jdubjbailey: no usplash on my server man04:24
lifelessmdz: I'm not in a rush. Just moving the process along. The question was 'is maintaining the base debian dir for baz, and the bicycle-repair package' qualifying work ?04:24
jdubi have to reboot my notebook too ;)04:25
mjg59jdub: Mirror sync not finished yet?04:25
jdubmjg59: finished, upgrading now04:25
jdubwill do notebook first04:25
jdubsleepyhead ;)04:25
mjg59jdub: I promise you a world of rock04:25
whiprushthis the new artwork?04:25
mdzlifeless: if they go verbatim into ubuntu, I'd say definitely04:25
mjg59whiprush: Yeah. Not finalised, but much better than what we had up to now04:25
mdzlifeless: if there's someone in between who is taking your work and making it suitable for ubuntu, I'd say it's more subjective04:25
mjg59whiprush: Also, lsb-base integration so text actually appears04:25
wasab1I don't want boot text. =(04:26
jdubwasab1: i'm working on mjg59 about that - wait for breezy+1 :)04:26
wasab1I only want text if something fails badly. heh.04:26
whiprushmjg59: rock04:26
lifelessbicycle-repair is used verbatim AFAIK. ditto bazaar, though bob2 does tweak it (as far as I know all he does is change the deb version to be not-an-upstream number.)04:26
mjg59jdub: It's arguably a bug that any text appears, so we can probably remove that04:27
lifelessmdz: thanks. I've got what I need to put stuff on the wiki page.04:27
mjg59Oh dear. It's going to be too hot here tomorrow.04:27
jdubmjg59: ... for breezy?! i thought we said--04:27
wasab1I'd like it to boot exactly like OS X does really.04:27
mjg59jdub: Did we? It's like a one line patch for the kernel, and a couple for grub04:27
jdubwasab1: OS X has boot text. ;-)04:27
wasab1Simple gray or otherwise colored screen until high res is avaiolable.04:27
wasab1Sorta. It has a progress bar.04:28
mjg59jdub: Oh, hang on, I see what you mean04:28
jdubmjg59: oh, no, wasab1 and i are talking about the usplash scrolly bits04:28
mdzwasab1: sure, all we need to do is develop a custom hardware platform for Ubuntu.  then we can get rid of all this conditional logic ;-)04:28
wasab1It doesn't have scrolling techy text.04:28
jdubbut the other stuff, totally agree04:28
jduband i asked jbailey about the grub spew04:28
mjg59jdub: Yeah. I still hold with what we agreed for now04:28
wasab1mdz: I recognize up to the bootloader we can do nothing. ;)04:28
jdubyeah, conditional logic is for girls04:28
jbaileyjdub: I looked and wasn't able to find a bugzilla entry.... =)04:28
wasab1but beyond that!04:28
jbaileyjdub: I *like* girls...04:28
mdzwasab1: there are things we can't do beyond that, too04:28
lu|awaywhat do I need to install to get the usplash sexiness?04:28
mjg59If someone rewrites a small amount of bogl, we can have anti-aliased text in usplash...04:29
wasab1Oh? Such as?04:29
mdzlu|away: ubuntu-desktop04:29
=== lu|away is now known as louie
mdzand 'linux'04:29
jbaileymjg59: Will that make it harder for me to port it to ppc?04:29
jdublouie: install usplash, then re-mkinitramfs -o /boot/<your-initrd-file>04:29
mjg59louie: More usefully, perhaps, usplash, lsb-base, initramfs-tools and dpkg-reconfigure your kernel04:29
wasab1I really don't want to see graphics until we have high res though. They just look nasty04:29
louiemjg59: thanks04:29
mjg59wasab1: Depending on boot, that could then result in a very long black screen04:30
jdubshould have all that stuff already04:30
mdzmjg59: I've now seen on three different displays; if the picture is not adjusted properly for whatever reason, the border area comes through as a light color04:30
mjg59wasab1: The Windows world deals with 640x480 in 16 colours04:30
mjg59mdz: Hrm04:30
mdzmjg59: any idea how we can make that black instead?04:30
wasab1THe windows world sucks. ;004:30
mjg59mdz: My only guess is that their might be a bit of overscan04:30
jbaileymjg59: I see the outside square as white here on my laptop too.04:30
jdubmdz, mjg59: hrm, perhaps we have to specify one index as the screen backgroudn too04:30
mjg59mdz: Easiest way around that is to make colour 0 black04:30
mdzmjg59: sounds fine to me04:30
louiejdub: I removed ubuntu-desktop a long time ago because, well, I wanted to see how much misc. puffery I could remove from the livecd, mostly, and decided to leave it off my machine, which is often low on space04:30
jdublouie: badness :)04:31
jdubmjg59: turns out shifting colours between indices is hard04:31
mjg59jdub: Dude, have you not rebooted yet?04:31
jdubmjg59: it's just shutting down atm04:31
mjg59jdub: I'll write a damn program to do it04:32
louiejdub: ubuntu-desktop depends on a lot of stuff which is totally unrelated to any sane meaning of the word 'desktop'04:32
mjg59The BBC news person has what looks like an X300 on the desk in front of him04:32
jdubmjg59: supposedly some gif toolkits do it04:32
HrdwrBoBlouie: postfix isn't needed on a desktop?04:32
jdublouie: agree.04:32
jdubHrdwrBoB: no, and we don't depend on it anymore04:32
mjg59louie: I think "desktop install" rather than "desktop environment"04:32
jdublouie: i want to move the python stuff to ubuntu-python04:32
louiemjg59: by either definition, it doesn't work04:33
=== jdub prepares for a ROCKS OFF experience
louiemjg59: all the misc. python stuff, for example?04:33
mjg59louie: Yeah, well04:33
jdubmjg59: ARGH!04:33
mjg59Hrm. Ok, it's not an X300. Previous generation Dell, though04:33
jdubmjg59: i have old poo artwork without scrolly bits!04:33
wasab1I wonder if there is any feasible way for me to mod my bios to remove all text.04:33
mjg59jdub: Dude, you have the wrong usplash and the wrong lsb-base, or you didn't mkinitramfs04:34
mjg590.1-6 is the usplash you need04:34
jdubi did all these things!04:34
mjg59It works for everyone else04:34
jdubfascist machine04:34
mdzjdub: perhaps you poked at the wrong kernel04:34
mdzdpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` && reboot04:34
jdubi did mkinitramfs04:34
mjg59jdub: I mean, dude, mdz has got it to work04:34
mjg59And everyone knows how he feels about graphics04:34
mdzyeah, and I'm pretty slow when it comes to computers04:35
jdubso with cfq04:35
jdubi get the gdm drumbeat before login:04:35
jdubthat's harsh04:35
whiprushbrrump bump04:35
mjg59That's because cfq eats babies04:36
jdubcfq was meant to fix the baby eating problem04:36
mjg59So, for reasons I don't understand, at 03:30 every morning, BBC news switches to PBS for half an hour04:36
louieso you can know how good you have it?04:36
mjg59Uh, not PBS. ABC.04:36
louiesort of like taking the children of the rich to tour homeless shelters?04:36
mdzcould someone figure out why gdm doesn't switch the console properly on the live CD anymore?04:37
mdzon shutdown?04:37
mdzit used to04:37
jdubuh oh04:37
=== jdub wonders which machine he's been upgrading.
mjg59mdz: We should add a shutdown and reboot init script for usplash, too04:37
jbaileywasab1: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/initramfs-tools_0.25_all.deb =)04:37
mdzmjg59: yes, but it looks like not for breezy04:37
jbaileywasab1: I've confirmed that it still boots my totally non-evms setup here, no idea beyond that.04:38
jbaileywasab1: It does load all the pieces on, though.04:38
jdubmjg59: toshset spews a debconf error about fully-enabled acpi machines04:38
mjg59jdub: YES, I KNOW04:38
jdubha ha04:38
mjg59(The baby Jesus weeps bitter tears)04:38
jdubanother gin and tonic04:39
mjg59mdz: Oh, that's a point. Can we grab 1.70-1 from Debian for toshset to fix gcc-4.0 FTBFS?04:39
jdubso apparently some major strains of malaria are resistant to quninine now04:39
mjg59There's basically no code changes other than that04:39
mdzmjg59: infinity already asked, and I said yes04:39
louiejdub: yeah, have been for at least a few years04:39
mjg59jdub: Bah. I'm being forced to drink myself through the mountain of Stella that got left here after the housewarming04:39
mdzmjg59: at least, I assume you were both talking about the same thing.  I don't remember which version he wanted04:39
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mdzstella is not a very good beer04:40
mjg59mdz: Yeah. Ok, cool - I missed you acking it04:40
mjg59mdz: I wholeheartedly agree04:40
louiejdub: they don't give the peace corps kids in africa quinine anymore04:40
mjg59But I only have one more can to get through, and then I have enough cupboard space to get something decent04:40
jdubmjg59: you let housewarmers bearing stella in the house?04:40
mdzmjg59: I have decided that talisker is worth having around, even if it isn't quite as good as cragganmore04:40
mjg59jdub: It was Phil Hands04:40
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jdubso building a custom kernel for ubuntu is a bit of a challenge these days04:41
jdubi imagine04:41
mjg59jdub: Yes04:41
=== jdub still complies with his oath
mjg59Got usplash yet?04:42
mdzyeah, what's taking so long?04:43
jdub"Apple Computer is preparing a major announcement next week, dropping hints of something as critical to the company's future as the release of the original iPod in 2001."04:43
mjg59That's crazy talk04:43
mjg59Or dreadful typing04:43
louiewhy wait that long?04:43
mjg59Inter-uterine ipod04:44
jdubmjg59: it wasn't a typo ;)04:44
mdzmjg59: that's what they call births in Australia04:44
mjg59mdz: Damnit.04:44
jdubsupposedly it's music related04:44
louieoh, right04:44
louiethis is when they announce all the major labels have told them to fuck off04:44
jdub^ ha ha ha04:45
mjg59jdub: Get usplash working, damnit04:45
whiprushjdub: you just had to defend why we're not shipping spatial by default.04:45
mdzjdub: stop changing the subject04:45
jdubmjg59: now i'm upgrading my laptop!04:45
whiprushwe're indeed in the outer limits.04:46
jdubmjg59: i must've been upgrading something else before04:46
mjg59"KDE uses C++ so it's less error prone and allows developers to concentrate on real work instead of fighting with libraries (and dependencies)"04:46
louieto be fair04:46
mjg59I must have missed all those C ABI transitions04:46
louieif I had a nickel for every time we had some stupid pointer-based-bullshit crash in bugzilla04:46
mjg59Except, no04:46
louieI'd not be worried about going back to work, or school04:47
mjg59That is, actually, a 4:0 ABI transition win for C++04:47
mdzlouie: yeah, good thing C++ doesn't use pointers04:47
HrdwrBoBI am not very keen on Gnome, because I hate depending on lots of different libraries with different evolutionary speeds04:47
jdubwhiprush: i've always loved the feature myself (to a certain extent), but understood its impact on real users04:47
jdublouie: ha ha C++ without pointers!@04:47
louieright, so, not the example I was searching for04:47
whiprushjdub: the one bummer with new browser, is that the sidebar isn't drag and dropabble.04:47
louieit's late, I'm tired ;)04:47
whiprushso it's like, so close.04:47
jdubwhiprush: yeah04:47
jdubgood bug :)04:47
mjg59Oh dear. ABC seem to be saying that the US is going to be bankrupt now.04:48
mjg59$67.20 a barrel? Ouch.04:48
louieit was up to $74 this morning at one point.04:48
=== jdub enjoys sogrady's style
jdubmu ha ha04:49
jdubmjg59: STATUS: mkinitramfs04:49
lifelessmjg59: goes around, comes around.04:49
mjg59louie: It's basically impossible for a third party to provide dynamically linked C++ binaries04:49
jdubmjg59: STATUS: reboot04:49
mjg59jdub: Hurrah04:49
louiemjg59: I'm not saying C++ is good04:49
louiemjg59: I'm just saying C really sucks04:50
mjg59louie: Oh, hell, yeah04:50
mjg59C really sucks04:50
jdubHOLY CRAP04:51
mjg59We win!04:51
jdubmjg59: ok, so the funny look must be the scaling on my LCD04:51
mjg59jdub: Only thing really left to fix is word wrapping04:51
louie#ubuntu: our pants are a mess04:51
mjg59Funny look?04:51
jdubmjg59: console scaling, makes it look, uh, badly anti-aliased04:51
mjg59Ah, yeah04:52
jdubwe can pass that off as a feature though04:52
mjg59That's massively hardware dependent04:52
jdubis it possible to turn off the scaling in userland?04:52
mjg59Yes. If we know how to speak to your specific bios.04:52
jdubsave state, turn it off, resume state04:52
jdubscrew that, then04:52
mjg59(So, uh, no)04:53
mjg59ACPI was a wonderful opportunity to standardise all of this04:53
mjg59But, damn.04:53
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jdubmdz: http://lwn.net/Articles/149564/04:53
jdubha ha h04:53
mjg59louie: I'm actually astonished at how bad ABC seems to be04:53
louiemjg59: the only news radio worth listening to in the US is NPR04:54
louieand even that is not nearly as good as BBC04:55
whiprushit's all about science friday.04:55
EvanCarrollI just found a pretty big bug in breezy, I was playing with debfoster, a utility that i never used before in ubuntu, when I asked it to purge the vlc package, in doing so all of the vlc dependenices not registered as dependencies elsewhere were removed, the result was quite odd, no sound using xine/alsa, like a problem with mpeg/mp3+avi/rm decoding in everything04:55
louiewhich probably would not be as good as circa-1985 apple tts reading the economist04:55
EvanCarrollThough i could see the motion picture, I coulden't hear the sound, and nothing spit out an error to stderr or though dialog, nothing in logs or anything04:55
louiewish me luck, usplash and n-m when I return04:56
louieeither that or DEATH04:56
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EvanCarrollthe only thing that produced sound was xmms with its alsa plugin, when i readded vlc for troubleshooting everything worked04:56
mjg59jdub: So how many sexiness points do we get for that?04:56
mjg59EvanCarroll: That's very odd.04:56
jdubmjg59: well, i'm rebooting again04:57
jdubif that's any indication04:57
mjg59I did that several times today04:57
jdubmjg59: the progress bar needs to be further down04:58
jdubmjg59: in between bottom of logo and top of text area04:58
mjg59Oh, the progress bar has been added?04:58
EvanCarrollmjg59: It is reproducable though, I can output the log of the things that vlc pkg added to my system, I would say all of its dependenices should be listed with other programs that could use them though, such as gxine04:58
mjg59I hadn't seen it working with those graphics yet04:58
mjg59Yeah, that's an easy fix04:58
EvanCarrollor at the very least amarok, kaffeine, and nautoplay04:59
mjg59Pls file bug kthxbi04:59
mjg59(Severity: BLOCKER)04:59
jdubmjg59: when would you expect it to dump you at normal output?04:59
jdubwith current version04:59
mjg59jdub: If something goes wrong04:59
mdzmjg59: hmm04:59
mjg59Unless an init script is taking too long05:00
mjg59I might want to extend the timeout05:00
mdzmjg59: I think busybox init is killing usplash05:00
mjg59mdz: Mm? Erk.05:00
mjg59mdz: How so?05:00
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mdzmjg59: well, it does more or less kill(-1)05:00
mdzmjg59: what I get is the usplash artwork, static and unchanging until X starts05:01
=== jdub reboots again
mdzfixing that is going to be a pain05:02
mjg59mdz: Oh, nngh.05:02
mjg59mdz: I haven't seen that. I get text here.05:02
mdzmjg59: on the live cd?05:02
mjg59Oh, no05:02
mjg59Sorry, was missing context05:02
jdubHDIO_SET_DMA failed: operation not permitted05:02
jdubsomething in my hdparm settings, i guess05:03
mdzmjg59: the live CD boots into d-i, which uses busybox init, then it tells busybox init to re-exec itself (along the way it kills everything but itself)05:03
mjg59jdub: That sounds like initramfs somehow missing your driver05:03
mjg59mdz: Hrm. Right.05:03
mdzmjg59: so either I'll need to hack up busybox, or create an init script for usplash so that it gets started after init05:03
mjg59mdz: Well. it /could/ just catch KILL...05:03
mdzmjg59: catch the uncatchable catch?05:03
mdzdream the impossible dream?05:04
mjg59Oh, damn, KILL is uncatchable?05:04
mjg59I forget which ones are and aren't05:04
jbaileyjdub: Take ide-generic out of your /etc/mkinitramfs/modules05:04
=== jbailey wanders off for food.
mdzjdub: DELETE /etc/mkinitramfs/modules05:04
jdubwell, it even happens post-boot05:04
mdzjdub: and then re-mkinitramfs05:04
mjg59jdub: Once ide-generic has bound, nothing else can grab the controller05:04
wasab1I don't suppose anybody knows hwo to make NFS not require reverse DNS?05:05
mjg59wasab1: Check /etc/hosts.deny05:05
=== jdub lines ducks up for another reboot ;)
wasab1Check for what?05:06
mjg59wasab1: man hosts.deny05:06
wasab1Well, the file is empty.05:07
mjg59Unsure, then05:07
wasab1It seems to be part of NFS itself.05:08
mjg59Not to the best of my knowledge05:08
mjg59Though I haven't touched NFS since 2002, thankfully05:08
=== mjg59 enjoys no longer being a sysadmin
wasab1I'm open to alternatives. =(05:08
mdzlamont-away: around?05:10
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jdubmjg59: magical05:11
jdubi'm reboooting again05:11
mjg59jdub: ?05:11
jdubi just got my first complete usplash run05:12
mjg59Are you addicted?05:12
jdubso i'm going to watch it again05:12
jdubmjg59: mm, and that choice of red wasn't offensive05:13
=== jdub is pleased
mjg59jdub: I think this is a historic victory05:14
fabbionemjg59: yo05:14
mjg59fabbione: Hi05:14
fabbionemjg59: i think i need a new laptop.. what brand would you suggest?05:14
fabbione(amd64/TONS of RAM/no need of big hd/possibly nice big screen)05:15
mjg59fabbione: If you've got enough, IBM05:15
mjg59There are no good amd64 laptops yet05:15
fabbionemjg59: i only have one.. i don't make laptop collection as you do...05:15
danielsfabbione: he meant enough money05:16
mjg59IBM are expensive, but the T series is *very* good05:16
mjg59Toshiba are probably the best of the rest, if you go for their business machines05:16
fabbionemjg59: how much are we talking about +/-?05:16
mjg59fabbione: 1500 Euros or so 05:17
mjg59At a guess?05:17
mjg59I don't really know what they go for in the Eurozone05:17
fabbionemjg59: eheh ok :) an estimate is more than fine05:17
mjg59You could get the same CPU and RAM for much less, but it wouldn't be as well made05:17
jdubmjg59: use your BBC words05:18
jdubthis is AN historic victory05:18
mjg59I REFUSE.05:18
fabbionemjg59: hmmm they have IBM R50 and T42..05:18
mjg59fabbione: T4205:19
jdubfabbione: the samsung-rebadged Dells are good (currently the Dell X1 / Samsung Q20)05:19
mjg59The R series is cheap rubbish05:19
fabbionemjg59: and they are almost the same prices as PowerBooks ....05:19
mjg59They're nicer than Powerbooks05:19
jdubthey're just like the IBMs without the bowel pain05:19
mjg59No T43s?05:19
danielsjdub: ps: when talking to an irishman, possibly refrain from mentioning 'your' BBC05:19
fabbionemjg59: i am surrounded by i386 :)05:19
mjg59fabbione: Haha05:19
mjg59fabbione: Well, Powerbook means PCMCIA or USB wireless05:19
mjg59The only AMD64 from a big name manufacturer yet is from HP, and it's not very nice05:20
fabbionemjg59: if i need to spend that amount of money, i would go for a powerbook.. i hounestly expected to be cheaper05:20
fabbionemjg59: i saw the ACER ferrari?05:20
fabbionemjg59: yeah usb/pcmcia doesn't scare me05:20
mjg59fabbione: If you buy an Acer, I will fly to your home and punch you in the face05:20
jdubyou are buying a cadaver :)05:20
fabbionemjg59: gotcha :)05:20
mjg59And will never reply to your bugs05:20
mjg59fabbione: You remember how much crack acerhk was?05:21
fabbionemjg59: yes yes..05:21
fabbionewasn't a powerbook g4 2Ghz around?05:22
mjg59fabbione: Now imagine a whole laptop of that much crack05:22
fabbioneor the top was 1.67?05:22
jdubmjg59: congrats05:22
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jdubmjg59: usplash is aesthetically beautiful, and technically non-objectionable05:22
fabbionemjg59: yes.. i gotcha from "the i will fly there and kill you of the slowest painfull death" ;)05:22
mjg59jdub: It was a lovely spec to implement05:23
mjg59fabbione: The Dutch government wants to stop foreigners buying drugs there05:23
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louieI probably should not have tempted the fates.05:23
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fabbionemjg59: well we still have kernel source printed on thin cigarette paper.. just refill it with tobaccos.. that will do :)05:24
mjg59jdub: Any more impossibilities you want implemented before release?05:28
jdubit is love05:28
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danielsmjg59: also, I want a pony05:28
wasabijbailey: no luck.05:28
jdubwe can worry about scrolly bits for breezy+1 ;)05:28
wasabiSays no root device, can't find /dev/evms/root05:29
jbaileywasabi: Can you try rebooting, add the word 'break' to the kernel command line.  It should drop you to a shell.05:29
jbaileywasabi: Take a look in /dev/evms, does it exist?  What's in there?05:29
wasabilemmie grab other comp05:30
jbaileyIf nothing, trying running /sbin/evms_activate05:30
jbaileywasabi: Cool.05:30
jdubjbailey: ok, time to reboot my server :)05:31
jbaileyjdub: Cool.  Hopefully get you and wasabi happy and then I'll go to bed. =)05:32
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=== fabbione starts to make bubbles on the powerbook
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=== jbailey blinks nervously.
wasabiNo /dev/evms and no /sbin/evms_activate05:34
jbaileyWell, the second is the cause of the first..05:34
wasabireverse that.05:35
wasabiYeah, you're right.05:35
wasabiDamn backwards logic!05:35
wasabiOh hey, my iBook apparently can sleep and can wake up now.05:35
wasabibut it can't REALLY wake up. it wakes up and goes to console with kernel messages printed out05:35
wasabiand I can't switch to X05:35
wasabiI can plug/unplug a usb device though and see that it's responsive.05:36
jbaileywasabi: Are you able to boot the system the rest of the way up?05:36
fabbionewasabi: hand me 3000 Euros and i will happily test on my new shiny powerbook :)05:36
wasabijbailey, i can switch back to oter kernel.05:36
jbaileywasabi: Please.  We need to figure out why evms_activate didn't get included.  It's in mine here.05:37
mdzmjg59: ok, so I changed it to start usplash after udev instead, which is not so bad05:37
jbaileyOf course, I get "Error returned from evms_open_engine(): No such file or directory". but I'm hoping that just means that I don't have any evms volumes.05:37
mdzmjg59: but on the live CD, X can take longer than the timeout to start05:37
wasabiI get big errors like that.05:37
wasabiOn the old kernel.05:37
mdzmjg59: and I seem to end up back at a text console rather than on the VC where X is running05:38
wasabiUnable to create lock file, might be dupe instances, etc.05:38
wasabiAlways just ignored them.05:38
mjg59mdz: Ok05:38
mdzmjg59: usplash tries to switch back to VC#1 or VC#<previous> when it times out, right?05:38
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mjg59mdz: Hrm. If X hasn't changed VT, then usplash will exit back to its VT, and I guess that X might notice that the VT has changed again05:38
jbaileyjdub: And?05:38
wasabijbailey, I'm up.05:38
mdzmjg59: yeah, I think it's taking >=15 seconds just to read all of the X server garbage off of the CD, before it starts doing anything05:39
mjg59Yeah. usplash -c opens a new VT. If it times out or gets a QUIT message, it switches back to the old one.05:39
jdubjbailey: lovely :-)05:39
jbaileywasabi: 'kay, can you make sure that you have a file /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hook/evms05:39
jbaileyjdub: Cool. =)05:39
jdubjbailey: /init: 89: chmod: not found05:39
mdzmjg59: should gdm tell usplash to quit?05:39
mjg59mdz: Ok. We can either increase the timeout generically, or I can give you a command to alter the timeout on the fly05:39
jdubjbailey: known?05:39
jbaileyjdub: Yup, I know about that one.05:39
wasabijbailey, I do not.05:39
mjg59mdz: Hrm. That doesn't sound like the right answer.05:39
mdzmjg59: I wouldn't know what to set the timeout to05:39
jdubjbailey: tops - thanks! :)05:39
jbaileywasabi: 'kay, so I apparently gave you the wrong initramfs-tools deb, gimme a sec. =)05:39
wasabihehe k05:39
jdubjbailey: btw, should i need sata_sil/sd_mod in /etc/mkinitramfs/modules?05:40
jbaileyjdub: Nope.05:40
mdzmjg59: apart from that, it works (or would work, if the latest casper would build without infinity)05:40
mjg59mdz: Rock05:40
jbaileyjdub: Mind doing another reboot test with that gone?05:40
mjg59mdz: Well, if it's got as far as gdm, then it's unlikely that anything is going to explode05:40
=== jdub furrows brow.
jdubok :)05:41
jbaileywasabi: New version posted.05:41
mdzI guess usplash still isn't working for jdub, if he's complaining about that chmod error05:41
wasabisame version?05:41
jbaileymdz: It's his server, he probably isn't running usplash on it.05:41
mdzoh, I see05:42
jbaileyI should upload the new busybox that fixes that.05:42
jbaileywasabi: Yup.05:42
mjg59usplash doesn't use chmod any more05:42
jbaileymjg59: initramfs-tools does.05:42
mjg59But one of the chmod errors used to be from usplash05:43
fabbionemdz: why xdm has been promoted to main?05:43
mdzfabbione: I don't know; perhaps elmo processed it straight into main05:45
fabbionemdz: ok.....05:45
=== ajmitch remembers to file a bug on xdm
fabbionemdz: if there is no good reason, it should land in universe, as it was for warty and hoary05:46
mdzfabbione: I already moved it05:46
mdzit was on anastacia's list05:46
fabbionemdz: perfect. thanks05:46
mdzfabbione: which you can always find at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt (updated every 15 minutes)05:46
fabbionemdz: yes, i recall the URL.. but that won't give me an explanation if somebody asked for it to be specifically forced in main...05:47
jbaileywasabi: How's it going?05:48
fabbionemdz: probably rman can be demoted too. It was a Xfree/Xorg B-D05:49
=== fabbione checks
mdzfabbione: I already tried; it needs elmo love05:49
fabbioneyeah it can go..05:50
fabbionehmm why elmo love?05:50
fabbioneah i guess for the links, and move stuff around...05:50
wasabijbailey, it has it05:51
wasabijbailey, about to reboot05:51
jbaileywasabi: lovely, thanks.05:51
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louieso, X wasn't starting because my mouse device got renamed from /dev/input/mice to /dev/input/mouse005:53
louieknown bug?05:53
louie(or NOTABUG?)05:53
mjg59louie: Erm. The two devices aren't the same thing.05:54
mjg59/dev/input/mice should exist05:54
mjg59It multiplexes the stream from every mouse input device05:54
mjg59mouse0 is the input from a single mouse05:54
louie /dev/input/mice does not exist, and replacing one with the other in my xorg.conf got me a working system, so... 05:54
jbaileylouie: The udev upload I just did should have fixed that.05:54
louiejbailey: the missing /dev/input/mice, you mean?05:55
jbaileylouie: right.05:55
louieah, thanks.05:55
jbaileylouie: #12915 for reference.05:56
mjg59Jesus. Have we really gone though about 15,000 bugs in a year05:57
mjg59That's not too bad05:57
wasabisynaptic should remember the size of the last Packages and Sources files that were downloaded.05:58
wasabiAnd use that to prime the progress bar.05:58
jbaileywasabi: Does that mean the reboot was succesful? =)05:58
wasabiHaving a progress bar that hits 100% and goes back to 50% over and over again is a bit annoying.05:58
=== jbailey is going to turn into a pumpkin shortly.
wasabijbailey, naw, means I'm updating my laptop.05:58
wasabiNo work05:58
wasabiEngine: Unable to open the control node for Device-Mapper05:59
wasabiThe Engine will run without Device-Mapper support.05:59
wasabiError returned from evms_open_engine(): No such file or directory05:59
wasabiit's missing dmsomething. ;)05:59
jbaileywasabi: can you check /proc/modules for dm_mod ?06:00
wasabiHmm. When runnign with break, it's not there, but it looks like break stops initrd launching06:01
jbaileywasabi: Right.  Didn't it drop you to a shell when it couldn't mount root? =(06:02
wasabiNope. It said it was.06:02
wasabiBut it just left me at the error line06:02
louieblah, nm is not happy to be running under jhbuild. looks for the system dbus somewhere in my jhbuilt root. anyone know how to fix that?06:02
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jbaileywasabi: Run scripts/local-top/lvm and then scripts/local-top/evms please?06:03
wasabiin break?06:03
wasabisame error on evms06:04
jbaileyThe whole error, include the device-mapper bits?06:04
jbaileyOh - of course.06:05
jbaileylvm isn't causing dm-mod to be loaded for you.06:05
wasabiThe error from evms.06:05
jbaileyCan you modpribe dm_mod please06:05
jbaileyand then try /sbin/evms_activate06:05
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wasabievms_activate gave me the no such file or directory error06:06
wasabibut not the Engine! error06:06
windubso that would be a big fat ugly NoBurger06:06
wasabiAnd /dev/evms now exists, with only one file. /dev/evms/dm06:06
windubjbailey: it spewed about changing roots and stuff06:06
jbaileywindub: Err.. What? =)06:06
jbaileywindub: Oh, removing the sata module?06:07
windubjbailey: pulling sata_sil/sd_mod from modules resulted in very unhappy initramfs06:07
wasabiOn this other system, my SATA DVD drive doesn't appear at all.06:07
=== louie is now known as lu|sleep
jbaileywindub: I need to pass out soonish.  Are you able to take some time with me on this tomororw night?06:08
jbaileywindub: It won't be a whole series of rebooting, mostly just walking sysfs to find out why it's not discovering this.06:08
windubfwiw, this machine is piix on the mobo, sil pci card, boots from sil06:08
jbaileyRight, but it should load both of those.06:08
windubheh, now it's reconstructing my one disk raid array ;)06:09
windubhrm, and couldn't mount my other raid array06:10
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jbaileywasab1: Thanks.  Now that I see that I get the same message as you, I can trace it.06:12
jbaileywasab1: Should be in either 0.25 or 0.26.  Depends if I need to push something for 0.25 sooner than evms is ready.06:12
jbaileyAnd with that, g'night all. =)06:12
bddebiangnight Jeff06:16
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lamont-awaymdz: just home06:38
lamont-awayand wandering back and forth for a bit06:43
whiprushjdub: ping06:49
jduber, brb06:49
jdubjust to make things difficult ;)06:49
jdub(phone)] 06:49
whiprushtell me of large appliances that keep things cold.06:49
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robitailleice boxes?06:52
whiprushsort of.06:52
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ajmitchmorning pitti 07:00
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Mithrandirmdz: (re 13905): I'm handling it today, I didn't make it yesterday, but it's top priority once I get into the office.07:03
pittiHi folks07:10
Mithrandirhi pitti07:11
pittiHi Tollef07:11
fabbionehey pitti07:11
xhakerudev doesn't set my cd recorder permission right07:13
xhakerany info on that?07:13
xhakeri couldn't record a CD, before chmodding 777 /dev/hdc07:14
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pittixhaker: known bzg07:36
pittixhaker: #14226, will be fixed soon07:36
sivanganybody has id what debmirror wants? Won't mirror without dists/breezy/main/binary-powerpc/Packages.gz signature in Release at /usr/bin/debmirror line 1174.07:37
sivangI use:debmirror /home/vmware/mirror -h archive.ubuntu.com -s main -r /ubuntu -d breezy -a powerpc07:37
xhakerdidn't thought of searching :s sorry and by the way, scite is not yet synced with debian07:37
sivangpitti: morning07:37
sivangpitti: d'ya get my email?07:37
pittiHi Sivan07:37
pittisivang: just started reading mail 30 seconds ago07:38
\shmjg59: for what do i need toshset_07:38
\shonly 20 minutes left to leave for breakfast07:38
sivangpitti: k :)07:39
jdubpitti: do you maintain pmount TODO stuff in bugzilla, or on a wiki or in the tarball or something?07:41
pittixhaker: should be solved in udev (0.060-1ubuntu10)07:43
pittijdub: right in bzr: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/pmount/TODO07:43
sivangpitti: anyway I sent you a link to the debdiff, if you have time you can ping me in about 1.5 hours I'll be at work an able to respond to feedback07:45
=== sivang away out
=== Keybuk has a half-finished zsh completion for bzr now
ajmitchKeybuk: know of any bash completion for it yet?07:46
pittijdub: the list doesn't contain the stuff from bug reports, btw07:47
Keybukajmitch: *shrug* I've never used bash in earnest07:47
ajmitchI've yet to play with zsh07:47
jdubpitti: haven't got anything in there about smb/nfs :-)07:52
jdubpitti: or images (iso/img)07:52
pittijdub: #1179607:53
pittijdub: why smb? smbclient works fine, doesn't it?07:53
jdubpitti: mounting smb shares as seamlessly as media devices07:55
pittijdub: hm, ok07:56
pittijdub: back in warty, we explicitly removed the setuid bit from smbmount :-)07:56
pittibut that was to get rid of suid bits, not particularly to disable smb mounts by users07:57
danielsKeybuk: have you already got bored, thrown it away, and rewritten it, or does that come later?07:58
pittielmo: please sync phpldapadmin simpleproxy07:58
jdubpitti: i should chat to you about this some time07:59
jdubpitti: maybe we should meet in some place easy for both of us to get to in the next couple of months07:59
jdublike montreal07:59
jdubthat seems simple07:59
jdubi know07:59
pittiright :-)07:59
jdubmaybe we should *all* go to montreal07:59
pittigreat idea!!!07:59
pittibut it's friggin' cold there...08:00
pittiand my laptop produces almost no heat08:00
pittiok, I could compile firefox in an endless loop...08:00
ajmitchpitti: don't do that to your poor laptop08:01
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Keybukdaniels: bash?08:22
KeybukI've always just used zsh08:22
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Keybukand ksh before that08:22
danielsKeybuk: ... okay, but why are you telling that to me?08:23
Keybuk<daniels> Keybuk: have you already got bored, thrown it away, and rewritten it, or does that come later?08:24
Keybukunless I mis-understood the sarcasm08:24
danielsKeybuk: i was talking about your zsh completions08:26
Keybukoh, right08:26
KeybukI was going to give it to you, so you could split it into 100 different packages08:27
danielsdude, don't look at me for the xorg app stuff08:27
danielsit might be instructive to check the changed-by field on all those uploads08:27
Keybukis the current code, it does completion of command names and a few of the arguments now08:28
pittiargh, dpkg conffile question for Xman08:28
danielspitti: dpkg bug, harass keybuk08:28
Keybuk*shrug* dpkg bug you knew about before you broke X :)08:29
pittiI also got questions for two other x clients08:29
pittiwell, as long as they don't appear in the hoary->breezy upgrade...08:29
danielsKeybuk: and again, 'might be instructive to check the changed-by field on all those uploads'08:29
danielsi've nothing to do with xman08:29
danielspitti: they won't from hoary->breezy, by a very curious quirk of dpkg08:29
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jdubpitti: hmm, i have two CDs listed in computer:///08:40
jduband only one cd drive08:40
jdubthey appear to be displaying the same thing08:40
=== jdub ejects
pittijdub: hm, can you please mail me your "lshal" output?08:40
pittijdub: oh, btw...08:40
pittijdub: does eject work for you? also for usb sticks?08:41
pittijdub: it was broken for a while, but now it works fine for me again08:41
jdubeject with the desktop icon context menu just worked then08:41
pittijdub: just want to confirm #504908:41
pittijdub: ok, fine08:41
jdubaha, and i still have two devices08:41
=== jdub gets lshal
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jdubpitti: done08:42
Burgundaviadaniels, you actually post in the forums?08:42
danielsBurgundavia: i troll for bugs around preview releases08:43
Burgundaviadaniels, ah, that explains it08:43
Treenaksdaniels: do you have any idea about the HP/Synaptics issue?08:43
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bob2someone should run a tutorial to teach people how to file bugs or something08:44
bob2run it over msn, I mean08:44
Treenaksbob2: oh, like Simon Tatham?08:44
pittibob2: right; "only file bugs if you have a proper explanation in plain text and diff -u format" :-)08:44
Treenakspitti: +patch08:45
danielsTreenaks: which one?08:45
Treenaksdaniels: the one about all taps being middleclicks08:45
Treenaksdaniels: which is teh suck08:45
danielsTreenaks: yeah, I saw it, but -synaptics hasn't changed in *ages*08:45
danielsTreenaks: so if it's recent breakage, I'd be looking at the kernel08:45
Treenaksdaniels: it's recent hardware08:45
Treenaks(i.e. canonical-supplied)08:46
danielsmaybe synaptics 0.14.x fixes it08:46
Treenaksdaniels: also, it works fine on my _other_ laptop08:46
jdubmjg59: are you asleep?08:47
pittijdub: odd, it seems that you get one icon for the storage device, and one for the volume on it08:48
pittijdub: but you said this lshal was issued *after* you ejected the disc?08:48
jduboh, well08:48
jdubi ejected, then put it back in08:48
pittiah, ok08:48
jdubjust to see if i still had two disks08:49
pittithen it's at least not completely broken :-)08:49
jdubyeah, that would be alarming08:49
pittijdub: can you mail me lshal without a cd inserted, for comparison?08:49
jdubi believe so08:49
Treenaksdaniels: it might be fixed in 0.14.2+08:49
Treenaks- Ignore the finger count from synaptics touchpads if the finger08:50
Treenaks  pressure is below finger_high. Some touchpads (for example, the one08:50
Treenaks  found on HP Pavilion 2028) report an unreliable finger count when08:50
Treenaks  the finger pressure is very low.08:50
jdubmmm, finger.08:51
danielsTreenaks: 'kay, I'll look into it08:51
Treenaksdaniels: I'll attach this to the report08:51
danielsTreenaks: thanks08:51
jdubpitti: sent08:52
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rob^are there any problems with xorg in breezy at the moment?08:57
rob^I just noticed there are a lot of updates08:57
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danielsthere will continue to be lots and lots of updates right through to breezy08:58
rob^yeah, nothing of note though?08:58
danielsnot yet08:59
Treenaksdaniels: how about http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14159 ;)08:59
rob^hmm 09:00
danielsTreenaks: hotkey-setup is matt's baby, not mine09:00
danielsTreenaks: (but yes, complete crack)09:00
Treenaksdaniels: yeah, but as they're not quite standard keys..09:01
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pittijdub: just to be clear, you get two icons even if the CD-ROM is ejected?09:03
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jdubpitti: no09:05
jdubpitti: icons disappear properly09:05
jdubpitti: but when mounted, i have two icons09:05
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jdubyeah, just to make sure09:05
jdubsame thing happens with non-ubuntu cd09:06
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jsgotangcois that for today's build?09:06
pittijdub: ok, I will eyeball the gnome-vfs2 code09:06
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Belutzanyone work in canonical? :)09:07
pittiBelutz: quite a few09:07
jsgotangcoi've seen some09:07
Belutzpitti: what if i'm going to open official support for ubuntu in indonesia?09:08
Belutzi'm sorry, but this is out of topic from the channel09:08
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jsgotangcoBelutz, Ubuntu Marketplace in the Ubuntu website has details on how to do it09:09
Belutzjsgotangco: ok, i'm goign to look at it09:09
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=== sivang --> back
jsgotangcohi sivang 09:12
Keybukrandom debconf error during upgrade: "Your kernel has ACPI enabled.  Unfortunately toshset is not fully functional on ACPI-enabled kernels".09:12
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Belutzthx all09:13
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jdubKeybuk: mjg59 knows about it. loudly.09:14
sivangjsgotangco: hey :)09:14
TreenaksKeybuk: Toshiba?09:15
TreenaksThe Dutch version of that message is full of grammatical errors09:15
Keybukjdub: yes, he just got a critical bug about it too :p09:16
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Keybuk(but I don't even own a Toshiba)09:17
danielsmdz: btw, xkeyboard-config 0.6-1 fixes your dvorak ralt problem09:18
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sivanghey dholbach 09:24
jdubmorning dholbach 09:24
dholbachmorning sivang, jsgotangco :)09:24
jdubdholbach: how did thesis stuff go?09:24
dholbachjdub: i have presentation on friday09:24
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jsgotangcoooohhh good luck!09:25
jduband when i say ooer09:25
jdubi mean BOOYAKASHA09:25
dholbach*jitter* *tremble*09:25
pittiHey dholbach 09:25
dholbachelmo, infinity: do you happen to know what happened to my clamtk 2.06 upload?09:26
pittidholbach: good luck and rock'em :-)09:26
dholbachhey martin09:26
dholbachhow are you all? :)09:26
pittidholbach: it was accepted according to the log09:26
pittidholbach: ^ this version?09:27
dholbachyes, i received the mails as well09:27
dholbachyes, it seems to never have been built09:27
dholbachat least there are no logs and no new version in the archive09:27
sivangdholbach: I've had my first FTBFS this morning, but besides that, everything's coolo :)09:27
dholbachsivang: there are a lot of "first times" :)09:28
sivangdholbach: yeah, and for some, Nth times :)09:28
dholbach"doesnt build at all", "builds only on arch X", "uploaded to wrong host", "upload not signed", ...09:29
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dholbachhi carstenh 09:29
carstenhhi dholbach 09:29
dholbachcarstenh: i'm in trier now as well :)09:29
dholbachcarstenh: but will leave this afternoon09:30
sivangdholbach: yeah...09:30
sivanginfinity is probably sleeping now, right?09:31
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KeybukThere's something delightfully retro about that usplash font09:32
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xhakerKeybuk, isn't it nice? :P09:34
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dholbachhey mvo09:41
pittiHi mvo09:42
pittimvo: thanks for fixing u-n09:42
mvohi dholbach, pitti 09:43
mvopitti: yes, I'm pretty happy that it is fixed now, took me a bit to find the problem09:43
pittimvo: was it a startup race condition with dbus?09:44
mvopitti: it was a race between gtk and x that caused the shape extension not to work on the first run09:45
pitticarstenh: ping09:45
carstenhpitti: pong09:45
pittimvo: ouch09:45
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jdubdaniels: is it sane for xorg.conf not to have a Module section?10:04
jdubwhen it was built by dpkg-reconfigure?10:04
tepsipakkiwhat's the reason for running lrm-manager with --quick on boot?10:06
tepsipakkiI'd like my nvidia binary-driver to be available on boot10:07
jdubit's built for you on boot10:07
dholbachmorning doko10:09
tepsipakkijdub: no it isn't10:09
tepsipakkilrm-manager: ld: not found (or something)10:10
jdubtepsipakki: ls /lib/modules/2.6.12-7-686/volatile/10:10
jdubsomething interesting is wrong, then10:10
tepsipakkiI filed a bug on that some time ago10:10
hungertepsipakki: Install binutils-static and replace ld with ld_static10:10
tepsipakkii know how to fix it for me ;)10:10
tepsipakkibut would like to get the fix in ;)10:11
hungertepsipakki: There are two bugs open about this issue IIRC, ask daniels, he should know for sure;-)10:11
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lifelessdholbach: why are you assigning baz bugs ?10:12
jdubit builds the modules in l-r-m for you, at boot10:12
dholbachlifeless: they were all in the unassigned view10:12
dholbachlifeless: i thought it'd be better for them to be assigned to bazaar-developers10:13
lifelessplease don't10:13
lifelessunassigned means noone has taken responsibility for them10:13
dholbachlifeless: what should i do with them?10:13
lifelessleave them unless you plan to work on them10:13
lifelessnow all the ones you had edit _incorrectly_ show as being worked on by the baz team,.10:14
danielsjdub: 'no'10:14
hungerjdub: Why aren't the modules build at install time?10:14
dholbachlifeless: isnt the "accepted" bit what you are talking about?10:14
lifelessand I've got to get someone to go through and put them back to unassigned. 10:14
danielsjdub: still with fiddy-foah?10:14
jdubyes, -54 on my desktop - nvidia, x86, etc.10:15
dholbachlifeless: i don't want a needless discussion, just to make sure i get it right10:15
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jdubit's rather bizarre running a server without SHAPE10:16
danielsjdub: output of DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=developer DEBUG_XORG_DEBCONF=developer sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg, pls10:16
danielsjdub: but ISTR this being a Debconf bug10:16
lifelessdholbach: actually, its different again, I just looked (I was alerted by email) - you are assign the work in the distro to the upstream team.10:16
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dholbachlifeless: these are the only ones i can assign :)10:16
lifelessdholbach: So the right thing to do if you want upstream to work on it is to 'request a fix upstream'10:17
jdubdaniels: you want the output?10:17
lifelessdholbach: 'accepted' means that the person assigned the bug has agreed. 'assignment' is asking a specific person to fix it in a specific context.10:17
jdubo/~ when you call my name, it's like a little prayer o/~10:18
danielsjdub: yeah10:18
dholbachlifeless: i see - it's just that bugs that are unassigned tend to get lost, assigned bugs are bugs that a team or somebody is aware of, accepted bugs from my point of view are bugs that are "taken care of"10:18
lifelessthey cannot get lost - they are tied to bazaar, to the team, already.10:18
lifelessunassigned -> lost is a bugzilla thing, not malone ;010:18
dholbachlifeless: i will leave the next bazaar bugs alon10:19
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lifelessdholbach: thanks. If you want a bazaar bug fixed, just do the 'request a fix in upstream', and/or get someone on the team to agree to tackle the bug, then they can assign it to themselves or ask you to assign it to them.10:19
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dholbachlifeless: i wanted to make sure that the team knows of the bugs, nothing else10:20
Mithrandirdholbach: they probably know how to search for bugs in "bazaar". :-P10:20
lifelessdholbach: to make sure we know of bugs in bazaar, all you need to do is ensure there is an 'Ubuntu upstream' entry in the 'needs fixing in' column.10:21
dholbachMithrandir: a mail in my inbox is a step closer to fixing the bug :)10:21
lifelessdholbach: I get a mail on evey bug when its filed against bazaar upstream.10:21
Mithrandirdholbach: that's not everyone's workflow.10:21
dholbachMithrandir: that's what i just learnt10:21
doko>   * Add java-gcj-compat again as alternative for lib32gcj6 as per10:21
doko>     Matthias' advice.10:21
dholbachlifeless: i won't pester you guys again :)10:22
dokoMithrandir: I said: add it, not replace it10:22
lifelessdholbach: I'm very happy to have you helping with bug management.10:22
lifelessdholbach: things that are useful are reviewing bugs from old versions to see if they are fixed,10:22
Mithrandirdoko: eh, yes?  I haven't replaced it, I've added it.10:22
lifelessdholbach: and taking ownership of bugs (assigning them to you ;)) followed by a patch ;010:23
Mithrandirdoko: if you want it done differently, you should either provide a diff, explain it properly or fix it yourself.10:23
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lifelessdholbach: take bug 1534 for example.10:24
lifelessdholbach: its not listed as needing a fix in 'upstream bazaar'.10:24
lifelessdholbach: requesting an upstream fix there would be a useful thing to do, as it would make it visible to us.10:24
dholbachi see10:25
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dokoMithrandir: sorry, that's not the tone I would expect. the java stuff is called as an external process, and it's used by dlopening libgcj. So we need both, not an alternative. The changelog doesn't say so.10:25
fabbionelifeless, dholbach: can you please stop playing ping pong with the bugs i did open in malone?10:27
fabbionethey are either assigned or not10:27
fabbionelifeless: also.. why should they be unassigned?10:27
dholbachfabbione: i wanted to assign them to the team, but lifeless didn't like that - he wants upstream bugs not ubuntu bugs10:28
fabbionelifeless: they clearly are upstream bug dude.. did you at least read them?10:28
lifelessfabbione: team assignments are useless.10:28
dholbachfabbione: sorry for flooding your inbox - i thought it would help in the process10:28
fabbionethe fact that they arrived as ubuntu is becauseat the time there was no clear idea on how to use malone10:29
lifelessfabbione: they mean nothing, we need individual assignment.10:29
lifelessfabbione: thats fine, this is nothing to do with the bug content, its to do with the workflow for getting them fixed.10:29
lifelessand assigning to team ensures they will be ignored violently.10:29
Mithrandirdoko: there's no way to express that in the packaging system.10:29
lifelessbecause folk look for unassigned bugs, and bugs assigned to them individually. 10:29
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Mithrandirdoko: you can't say "use ( lib32gcj6 and java-gcj-compat ) or j2sdk"10:30
lifelessthe Right Way to say 'upstream need to deal with this' is to request an upstream fix, and sure - they way they were entered may be improvable, but it doesn't change what we currently see.10:30
dokoMithrandir: lib32gcj6 | j2sdk, java-gcj-compat | j2sdk  comes close.10:32
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madduckthat's a pretty obvious plagiarism...10:32
madduckcanonical should sue their asses!10:32
Mithrandirdoko: why doesn't lib32gcj6 depend on java-gcj-compat if it's needed?10:33
dokoMithrandir: it's not needed. It would be needed, if we had a 32bit gij-4.0 on amd64.10:34
Keybukmadduck: *shrug* we don't actually know who invented their logo first10:35
Keybukit'd be fairly ironic to go blasting in with all guns blazing, to discover that they commissioned it four years ago and only just got around to using it10:36
Keybukand then have to change _our_ logo10:36
lifelessmsn spaces ?10:36
Mithrandirlifeless: spaces.msn.com10:36
madducklifeless: spaces.msn.com10:36
lifelessholy shite10:37
lifelessthats uncanny10:37
Mithrandirdoko: first you're saying that's it's needed, then that it's not.10:37
Keybuklifeless: did you not see that last year when it got noticed?10:38
sivangpitti: how can I see the new build log of gnome-panel ?10:38
pittisivang: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gnome-panel/2.11.92-0ubuntu5/gnome-panel_2.11.92-0ubuntu5_20050830-0838-i386-successful.gz10:38
pittidaniels: ah, new dbus - sync was not possible?10:39
sivangpitti: yay :)10:39
madduckKeybuk: ah, so this has been known for a while?10:39
Keybukmadduck: yeah, 6mnths to a year10:40
Keybukit could also be simply parallel evolution10:40
madduckcome on...10:40
sivangpitti: btw, why does it have hwdb is as it's virtual host? :)10:40
Keybukit's not exactly a non-obvious logo10:41
madduckeither they copied from ubuntu, or the dude who did the ubuntu logo "got inspired" by them.10:41
madduckKeybuk: it's the exact same concept, size, orientation.10:41
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dokoMithrandir: no, OOo2 uses java in two ways. One way is to dlopen the libgcj library. For that case we need the lib32gcj6 library. In the other case, it's calling gij (separate process), using the native 64bit libgcj6.10:41
pittisivang: it was just available for it :-) it's ogra's private nice hack10:41
madduckKeybuk: but let's not waste our time over this.10:41
Keybukthe orientation is actually not an accident10:41
madduckKeybuk: rather, let me ask some hct questions...10:41
Keybukjust about every other way up, it looks like one guy is on top, or one is the bottom in a threesome10:41
Keybukit's about the only way you can draw that without it looking silly :p10:41
madduckKeybuk: :)10:41
madduckKeybuk: mirrored along the vertical axis would work.10:42
Keybukthen it'd look like the Canonical logo10:42
madduckKeybuk: so hct... you read?10:43
madduckKeybuk: aegis has this great concept of associating workflow states with changesets10:43
madduckand someone said that hct does that too.10:43
Keybukhow do you mean?10:44
madduckyou can flag a changeset (new, under inspection, testing, final, ...)10:44
Keybukthere's support for that kind of thing in Launchpad10:44
madduckand then you can e.g. get a snapshot of the tree with only final changeesets10:44
madducklaunchpad... for issues, yeah.10:45
Keybukbut only at the branch level, iirc10:45
madduckno, i mean in the SCM10:45
madduckyeah, and at changeset level.10:45
madduckso nothing in hct?10:45
Keybuknope, nothing like that in hct10:45
Keybukit'll probably support the lp branch label stuff, when we can come up with some use cases for it10:45
danielspitti: haven't looked at it yet, tbh10:45
danielspitti: i have syncing with debian on my agenda for dbus and mesa though10:46
Keybukhct doesn't really work (despite its name) at the changeset level10:46
Keybukit does the exact opposite; it works with collections of inter-related branches10:47
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Keybukan hct operation might be "take what's new in the equivalent RedHat source package and add it to my local one"10:48
Keybukthough it's obviously moving changesets about underneath, it doesn't talk about them to you10:48
Keybukit talks about new patch branches, and stuff10:48
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Keybukit says "Debian added 04-fix-something-silly.patch" rather than anything else10:49
carstenhhmm, i remeber to have seen a filename like this in a debian source package10:53
madduckKeybuk: and what is sourcerer?10:53
carstenha bit different, but debian floks seem to like the word silly: ./iptables-1.3.3/patches/s390/005-atomic_t_silly_hack.patch10:55
Keybuksourcerer is the source-package import tool10:55
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danielsjdub: so, uhm10:56
madduckimport to the supermirror?10:56
madduckKeybuk: ?10:56
danielsjdub: could you please edit /var/cache/debocnf/config.dat, and change the seen flag of xserver-xorg/config/modules to false?10:56
danielsjdub: then reconfigure, and see if you get a proper modules section again10:56
Keybukmadduck: import into baz archives10:56
Keybukas well as linking up the dots to previous imports, upstream tarballs, cvs, etc.10:56
madduckah, ok. with the hct-style branches?10:57
madduckso sourcerer actually calls dpkg-source?10:57
Lathiatsourcerer? heh10:57
Keybukno, it has it's own implementation of it (la la la, See Keybuk NIH)10:57
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madduckKeybuk: will hct be any useful without the super mirror?10:59
danielsKeybuk: you're even worse than KDE10:59
Keybukmadduck: it's not useful without Launchpad or source packages imported with Sourcerer11:00
Keybukat some point it'll grow a "start a new source package" mode, but it doesn't have that yet11:00
madduckKeybuk: and if it starts a new source package, how does it do it then? indpendently from launchpad?11:06
madducki am asking because while hct looks promising, it's very ubuntu-centric. i am investigating a way to do something similar for debian, but without the requirement for a centralised architecture...11:06
Keybukit's initially ubuntu-centric, yes11:06
Keybukthough it's designed to be useful for everyone11:07
Keybukthe requirement for a centralised architecture is necessary, because unless you co-operate on file-ids each system wouldn't be able to share patches11:07
Keybukif your Debian baz archives for pmount use different file-ids than Ubuntu's baz archives -- you can't swap patches11:08
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hungerIs launchpad down?11:29
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lifelessKeybuk: no I didn't11:35
Keybuklifeless: tsk, you need to spend more time reading e-mail, or something11:36
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lifelessis there a tool to complement dchroot that setups the config file and chroots ? Perhaps a wrapper around debootstrap ?11:46
fabbionelifeless: i don't agree with the way you handled 22311:47
fabbionelifeless: given that it is a bug11:48
fabbionenoise in BTS is normal11:48
lifelessnoise in BTS is harmful, and not normal.11:48
fabbioneor you prefer to hide problems to users and get duplicates?11:48
lifelessI'm not deleting the bug description, or removing it from the db.11:49
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lifelessI'm marking it accurately.11:49
fabbioneREJECTing a bug means saying that's not a bug..11:50
lifelessbut if you want to reopen it again in ubuntu, sure, I won't turn this into a bts war11:50
fabbioneso either malone needs a more appropriate status11:50
fabbioneor it has to stay as NEW11:50
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lifelessits not new, its been triaged, and an action decided.11:50
fabbionelifeless: the bug is not ubuntu specific..11:50
lifelessif it was bugzilla, I'd say 'wontfix'11:51
lifelessperhaps you could file a bug on malone if you feel strongly about this.11:51
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dholbachmorning ogra11:52
ograwow, who made this new usplash graphics ? 11:53
sladenandyf I think11:53
ograits really cool...11:54
ograsadly my widescreen display streches it 11:54
kronosswhere can be seen the new graphics?11:54
ograkronoss, dont you read ubuntu-devel ?  there isa step by step guide11:58
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mvomjg59: should new usplash bugs be assigned to you?12:02
mvoogra: it's pretty cool the new usplash!12:02
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=== pitti tests new usplash
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pittihmm, is that just me, or does usplash drop back to text mode *very* soon again?12:11
mvopitti: I have it until X is started here12:13
pittimvo: hm, that looks like a bug then; thnaks12:14
Lathiatdrops back into text mode fairly soon here too..12:15
Lathiator at least it used to12:15
Mithrandirjbailey: I'll chuck 14239 in your direction; I think it's initramfs-related.12:15
mvofabbione: could you please test traceroute on your sparc and tell me if it faults with a bus error? a traceroute www.debian.org should be enough12:16
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carlosmvo, hi, around?12:17
mvocarlos: yes12:17
sladenpitti: there's a watchdog of about 10seconds12:17
carlosmvo, I need that you change the synaptic's po directory layout12:17
sladenpitti: eg. fdisk 12:18
pittisladen: hm, no init script takes so long for me12:18
mvocarlos: in what way and why? isn't it a fairly standard layout?12:18
carlosmvo, instead of having two .pot files there, please, create a po-manual or manual-po or something like that and move there that .pot file12:18
carlosmvo Rosetta is not able to handle directories with multiple .pot files and that's preventing to have breezy's synaptic imported into Rosetta12:19
mvocarlos: rosetta does not like two pot files in the same dir?12:19
carlosmvo, we will add that support in the future, but I don't think we will have it before breezy12:20
mvocarlos: ok, I'll have a look today. it's a bit of a pain this xmldoc stuff, I'll see what I can do12:20
carlosmvo, thank you very much12:20
mvocarlos: how did that work before btw? my layout didn't changed in quite a while12:20
carlosmvo, that's new for breezy, right?12:21
carlosmvo, we don't have any breezy version imported for synaptic I just detected it because an user asked me for synaptic12:21
mvocarlos: oh, ok12:21
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carlosmvirkkil, thank you12:26
mvocan I just close auto-imported bugs from debian that do not affect our release-architectures? (we have two major bugs open that seems to only affect sparc)12:30
ograpitti, are you sure you use the latest usplash (did you regenerate the initrd ?)12:30
kokemvo: BTW https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic fails :(12:32
kokeI guess spanish translation is outdated12:32
mvokoke: yes, I send a mail to the administator of the machine12:33
JaneWBREEZYGOALS - are there any new status updates to the BreezyGoals? Some are still listed as WIP, even though the Preview Freeze is in 2 days time....12:33
mvoI want to have it in baz, but apparently the import keeps failing12:34
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kokemvo: are you the current maintainter of gnome-app-install in gnome-cvs?12:40
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janimomdz, ping12:41
mvokoke: yes, but the current development is happening in baz12:41
chmjshackan: ping 12:41
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kokemvo: I know, but translation is happening in cvs12:41
mvokoke: yes, that's pretty bad. I need to reimport the current code into cvs12:42
kokeok, but it's string freeze now, isn't it?12:42
mvokoke: yes12:43
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sivangJaneW: did you get an update about lpint ?12:46
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LaschWproducer preinstalation framework? Are there any plans for a producer preinstallation framework for breezy which will be offererd to hardware vendors??12:53
JaneWsivang: no...12:54
Dizietmdz: ping12:55
mvoDiziet: he's probably sleeping12:55
dholbachha... lunch :)12:57
mvohmmm, lunch12:58
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MithrandirLaschW: yes.  OEMInstall01:00
LaschWMitario: Ahh, thats what I'm looking for. Is there a place where I may find more infos?01:01
LaschWMithrandir:  Ahh, thats what I'm looking for. Is there a place where I may find more infos?01:02
MithrandirLaschW: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OEMInstaller is the spec01:02
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LaschWMithrandir: Thanks! Seems to be in a very early state?01:05
MithrandirLaschW: it should be implemented, but I don't know if anybody has used it yet.01:05
elmodoko: ?01:05
MithrandirLaschW: Colin Watson is the guy who've been working on it, he doesn't seem to be around now (I though he should be back today, but apparently not).  You might want to chat with him.01:06
LaschWMithrandir: I'm discussing this with a hardware vendor in the moment. Seems that they are interested in such a tool.01:06
MithrandirLaschW: excellent!  We're very much interested in getting into touch with vendors who want to preinstall Ubuntu.01:07
LaschWMithrandir: Me too. I'm looking for a job and that might be a chance to get a foot on deck...01:08
dokoelmo: pong01:08
elmodoko: is calling this package  python-pylib really appropriate?  it seems to stomp all over the python namespace01:09
elmodoko: and the README.Debian is kind of lame - I don't know if it ends up getting installed or not tho01:10
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slomoelmo: any news with Mitario's, ivok's and my upload rights?01:11
dokoelmo: the package is requested by salgado, I know, that whole package looks insane, no wonder that nobody did try to package it. it doesn't bloat the namespace however. each and every module is contained in the 'py' package, so you have to explicitely import 'py.*'01:13
elmodoko: sorry I don't mean python namespace, I really mean debian packaging namespace01:13
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elmoslomo: I'll look at it when I'm caught up01:14
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ivokselmo: thanks01:14
slomoelmo: thanks :)01:15
ivoksnow we are intrusive :)01:15
dokoelmo: I don't know, how to name it else... the author writes about it as a bunch of useful stuff ... any other suggestions? (http://codespeak.net/py/current/doc/)01:15
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ograelmo, any idea why libxp doesnt show up in the archive ? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libx/libxp/ according to the logs it has built ages ago http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libx/libxp/6.2.0-0ubuntu1/01:16
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ograKamion, !!01:17
ograKamion, congrats etc...01:17
Kamionhi, thanks01:17
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elmoogra: becuase siretart uploaded the source with a lower version than the current binaries01:17
mvohey Kamion, welcome back!01:17
Kamionlooks like I'll be spending the guts of today sorting through e-mail01:17
elmo     libxp | 6.2.0-0ubuntu1 | breezy/universe | source01:18
elmo    libxp6 |   6.8.2-10 |         hoary | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc01:18
mvoelmo: can you please sync scite from debian? 01:18
siretartelmo: so I'll reupload with an epoch?01:18
ivokssiretart: you stilly man :)01:18
elmosiretart: a higher version number somehow; not sure if an epoch is appropriate or not01:18
ograsiretart, only with a higher number01:18
elmoepochs are for life, not just for christmas01:18
elmomvo: done01:19
siretartah. ok. will do. sorry for the mess01:19
mvoelmo: thanks :)01:19
dokoMithrandir: OOo2 amd64 loads, but I only see the non-gnome skin, although the OOo2-gnome package is installed01:20
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Mithrandirdoko: what does ldd /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/libvclplug_gtk680li.so| grep -i found say?01:22
siretartelmo: could you please sync java-package (for more jdk supported) and arch-buildpackage (for better baz support) from unstable?01:22
dokoMithrandir: libcairo.so.2 => not found01:25
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ograKamion, we'll have a lot to sort for the edubuntu CDs this week (just a warnig :) )01:27
sivangJaneW: besides two more packages, the spec is done - I updated the wiki page for it, you can look at it and see what's done. I mailed seb last week about the gimp, and I can take care of the other remaining package if this can expemt from FF01:27
fabbioneHey Kamion !01:28
sivangKamion: YO! :)01:28
sivangKamion: did you enjoy your vacation?01:28
pvanhoofCurrent rhythmbox is extremely unstable (in breezy)01:29
pvanhoofas in .. unusable unstable01:29
Mithrandirdoko: weird; I wonder why it's trying to get libcairo2 for you; here it's libcairo101:30
Mithrandirdoko: I'll see if I can reproduce it01:30
Kamionogra: sure01:31
ograKamion, :)01:31
Kamionsivang: definitely01:31
dokoMithrandir: old references to libcairo1? that one cannot be built anymore in breezy01:32
Mithrandirdoko: so? :-)  It's still in ia32-libs, iirc01:32
dholbachhave a nice day01:32
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sivangKamion: cool, btw - it seems we've figured the right flags to pass mkisofs for pSeries booting, I am going to test them when I get my local mirror complete. (currently downloading) the trouble is, I wasn't able where in CONF.sh I can add those..(talking about debian-cd)01:33
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ograhmm, damned, after dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` my ltsp server tries to netboot now.... something is very wrong here...01:34
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Kamionsivang: not CONF.sh; just edit tools/boot/breezy/boot-powerpc01:34
Mithrandirdoko: bingo, I see it too.  Thanks.01:36
sivangKamion: set_mkisofs_opts file is also of no relevance ?01:37
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elmosiretart: debian doesn't have a java-package newer than 0.2401:38
elmo0.25 sorry01:38
jbaileyMithrandir: Cool, looks like missing driver.01:38
Mithrandirelmo: could you please sync mercurial from Debian?  It seems to be missing in breezy.01:39
elmoMithrandir: done01:40
elmosiretart: arch-buildpackage done01:40
Mithrandirjbailey: yeah, I figured it'd be something like that, but you know the code way better, so easier for you.01:40
Mithrandirelmo: excellent, thanks.01:40
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siretartelmo: sorry, it is still in incoming.debian.org/java-package_0.26.dsc01:41
siretartI mixed up the debian dinstall run01:41
jbaileyMithrandir: Yup.  In the next version of two, I'm going to add a HACKING file with clearer instructions as to what's where.01:43
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elmosiretart: done01:45
sivangKamion: in boot-powerpc you have $N.mkisofs_opts , do you just echo the flags there as it seems from the script?01:45
Mithrandirdoko: hmm, even with nothing missing, it doesn't look very good :-/01:45
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JaneWsivang: ok thanks - did seb respond?01:46
sivangJaneW: not yet, he is on vacation IIRC01:46
sivangJaneW: should be back tommorow, IIRC :)01:47
siretartelmo: thank you very much. I owe you much more than a beer (or othere preferred beverage)!01:47
Mithrandirdoko: does http://err.no/tmp/ia32-libs-gtk_7_amd64.deb fix it for you?01:50
pittiHi Kamion, welcome back!01:51
DizietDammit, Debian's various gs 8's have crashy problems in ppc too.01:51
DizietAnd I'm forgetting to have lunch.01:54
Mithrandirdoko: if that fixes it for you, I'm going to upload that.01:55
dokoMithrandir: that does work, but I still see the white text on a grey ground. did you add the gtk themes, as martink suggested?01:55
Mithrandirdoko: no, I didn't pay well enough attention; where was that?01:55
Kamionsivang: right01:56
dokomartink: what was your other suggestion with setting some environment variable?01:56
Mithrandirdoko: the suggestion from martink, not the bug. :-)01:56
dokoahh, I think, adding the .so from the thinice(?) theme?, then he suggested setting a GTK_THEME_PATH variable (or something like that). I don't remember ...01:58
Mithrandirwas it here, or somewhere else?01:58
Mithrandirhere as in #ubuntu-devel01:59
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Mithrandirdoko: yay, that fixed it.02:05
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dokoMithrandir: nice :)02:06
martinkclearlooks, not thinice ;)02:07
Mithrandirdoko: uploading ia32-libs-gtk_7 now, please test and give feedback.02:07
Mithrandirmartink: yeah, I picked clearlooks.02:07
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JaneWBREEZYGOALS - are there any new status updates to the BreezyGoals? Some are still listed as WIP, even though the Preview Freeze is in 2 days time....02:11
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sivangKamion: k, thx02:13
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JaneWpitti:  yeah yours are looking GOOD. :)02:19
JaneWpitti: in fact would you like some more? *run*02:19
pittiJaneW: I already have enough bugs, thanks :-)02:20
mptpittti: Should the event-notifier idea described in http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-June/008392.html become a UBZ BoF? or is it already implemented/obsolete?02:22
pittimpt: I would love to get a BoF for it02:22
Mithrandirguifications3  should be able to be a all-singing, all-dancing notification thingy.02:23
Robot101watch out for guifications, it might be on complete crack02:23
JaneWpitti: darn, ok02:24
MithrandirRobot101: nah, grim is fairly sane and a good programmer.02:24
Robot101Mithrandir: it looks very overengineered for a "show foo to the user" system :P02:24
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Robot101Mithrandir: I prefer the look of the libnotify/notification-daemon stuff02:25
MithrandirRobot101: slightly, possibly.  But it's really cool, too.02:25
Robot101although I don't know what the fashion of the minute is in GNOME02:25
Robot101they're flaming about it I think02:25
mptmmm, guifications looks nice (at least on the screenshot level)02:29
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mptmore effective than trying to stuff notifications into a tiny panel, at least02:42
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Mithrandirmpt: I wonder if notifications can be (ab)used for general system monitoring stuff as well; "your ~ is nearly full" and so on.02:44
ograMithrandir, YES !!!02:45
mptMithrandir: Definitely02:45
ograbut you can already do this with zenity ....02:46
Mithrandirmpt: but those should be visible for different users, and be some kind of sticky.02:46
mptI've just been suffering that in OS X, which is throwing up alerts telling me my HD is nearly full when I'm in the middle of something mouse-intensive02:46
ograit has notification opportunitys since ages02:46
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mptIt's good that it's telling me, not so good that it's in an alert02:46
sivangMithrandir: are you working on imelementing that ?02:47
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sivangMithrandir: sounds cool02:47
mptMac OS 8~9 used little yellow floating windows for things like that02:47
Mithrandirsivang: I'm just packaging guifications, I'm not a developer on it.02:47
ograsivang, there are several frontends... whats missing is a backend02:47
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sivangogra: ah I see, and guifications is frontend to ?02:48
ograzenity, guifications, notification-daemon, event-notifier....02:48
lu|sleepso, does n-m bounce the network like a cheap whore for anyone else?02:49
ograall there waiting for your input :)02:49
sivangogra: sure and they are all frontends to inotify?02:49
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Mithrandirsivang: guification is a framework for doing it.02:49
ograsivang, what has inotify to do with that ? 02:49
sivangMithrandir: k02:49
sivangogra: you said those were all frontends, who's the backend?02:50
ograsivang, inotify is a kernel interface...02:50
ogra[14:47]  <ogra> sivang, there are several frontends... whats missing is a backend02:50
sivangogra: i know, I though those were used as frontends to that kenrel interface at thge backend02:50
sivangogra: DoH ! :_02:50
ograwrite one :) 02:50
sivangogra: gotta learn to read between the lines...02:50
sivangogra: gotta spec it first :)02:51
ograsomething for UBZ then :)02:51
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sivangogra: so currently, what do they use as their current backends? (I mean, we do have some of them on our desktop)02:52
ograsivang, whatever wants to send a notification to the user....02:52
ograwe dont have much yet on our desktop... 02:53
ograthe update-manager/notifier stuff, gnome-power uses it... i'm not aware of anything else currently02:53
sivangogra: I see, so we need a unified backend that exposes the same API and request events, instead of waiting to recieve them?02:54
ograthey all have these backends02:54
ograthere is just not much what uses them02:55
ograsivang, we only need apps that feed them... 02:56
mvoogra: pitts detection of additional usb audio hardware uses it too afaik02:57
ograi.e. a diskwatcher app that monitors your disk via inotify and sends a warning to notification-daemon02:57
ograat a certain amount of disk usage...02:57
sivangogra:so  apps = backends?02:58
ogramvo, oh, yes... i seldom change audio devices over here....02:58
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mvoheh, same here02:58
ograsivang, you got it :)02:58
ograsivang, notification-daemon and friends are just tools waiting for input... but there is not much that feeds them...02:59
ograand the final decision what wil enter upstream is still going on afaik02:59
sivangogra: I'm dum, but when explained slowly I get things :)03:00
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lu|sleepj^: have you had reports of network-manager taking the wireless connection down every few minutes? Just for a few seconds each time, but long enough to be spectacularly irritating03:01
dokomvo: apt-listchanges does segfault on amd6403:01
mvodoko: every time? or only in a minimal chroot?03:02
infinitydoko : Same thing on i386, but he can't reproduce it.  It's also not apt-listchanges, but python2.4-gtk, afaict.03:02
infinitydoko : I can segv with just "python ; import gtk"03:02
j^lu|sleep i read about that on the network-manager list, it might be a problem with some wifi cards, do you have an a/b/g card?03:02
sivangogra:<simpletone mode> so we need a list of stuff most wanted by people that want to know about their systems, and seek implementation. </simpletone mode>03:03
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infinitymvo : It's in my base system where it segfaults, in the minimal chroot, it hangs but doesn't die.03:03
lu|sleepj^: atheros, which I'm pretty sure has no g03:03
lu|sleepbut I might be wrong on that03:03
mvoinfinity: it does segfault on your normal install?03:03
infinitymvo : Yes.03:03
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j^lu|sleep if you right click the applet and switch off scanning it should stop disconnecting03:03
j^right there are issues with atheros03:03
mjg59atheros can't scan while associated03:04
infinitymvo : Also, the core from that "import gtk" is just a few thousand lines of obviously very smashed stack, so not very helpful. :/03:04
mjg59So presumably it's decided that dropping the interface to scan is sensible03:04
mjg59Rather than, say, cracked in the head03:04
luis_I don't have the applet running, since it fails to find the system dbus (looks for it in my jhbuild root for some reason)03:04
mvoinfinity: hrm, I can't reprdocue it on my two systems here (up-to-date breezy, upgraded today) :/03:05
infinitymvo : Want an ccount on a machine where it's happening?03:05
j^luis_ well you have to install dbus service files for NM03:05
j^in ubuntu that is in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/03:05
j^NetworkManager.conf and nm-applet.conf03:05
mvoinfinity: maybe, probably03:06
luis_j^: they are installed; I assume you mean I can edit them to point at the proper system bus?03:06
j^luis_ right, if nm-applet can not talk to NM via dbus, your dbus instance might not have picked it up03:07
j^or you are not in the plugdev group03:07
jdubuntz untz untz03:08
jdubhey hey j^03:08
j^hey jdub 03:08
sivangyo jdub 03:08
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j^jdub http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=51403:08
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mjg59If people could test that when it hits the archive, I would love them forever03:09
jdubmjg59: woo03:10
jdubmjg59: usplash looks a bit funny on my desktop03:10
jdubmjg59: non-black border (easy fix), also looks a bit uncentred03:11
jdubthe border only appears at top and left03:11
mjg59jdub: Ok. I think we'll need to shift black to colour 0.03:11
mvomjg59: it seems to be not working on my X30 (but it may be me)03:11
mjg59mvo: usplash?03:11
mvomjg59: yes03:11
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sivangjdub: I'm preparing a local mirror, when gonna try plunge tgall's flags into debian-cd and see waht comes out :)03:11
jdubmjg59: black or bg?03:12
Mithrandirjordi: is it on purpose that movemail isn't sgid mail?03:12
mjg59jdub: Background03:12
jdubsivang: cool03:12
mvomjg59: I used to boot with vga=771, but I removed the vga line and I botted with 785 as welll without getting a splash03:12
mjg59mvo: You've installed usplash and regenerated your initramfs?03:12
Mithrandirpitti: would you be ok with movemail (in mailutils) installed sgid mail?  it's fairly useless without that bit.03:13
j^it works on my x30, but its only a 640x480 image on a 1024x768 screen03:13
mjg59j^: Yes, that's correct03:14
j^mjg59 its also small03:14
pittiMithrandir: right; there was a recent vuln in that, but I asked for sync03:14
mvomjg59: yes, usplash is 0.1-6 (as on my other machine where it works fine). I'm regenerating my initramfs again 03:14
jdubmjg59: also, i'm getting an error on the 'generating console font' thigny03:14
ograj^, it uses vga16fb ....03:14
Mithrandirpitti: it's universe, though.03:14
Mithrandirpitti: and I haven't audited it, just asking first.03:15
pittiMithrandir: right, but I don't care about universe :-)03:15
pittiwell, at least not at the level I care for main03:15
mjg59j^: We either have small usplash or we have non-working suspend03:15
Mithrandirpitti: mpe.  :-)  I was more interested if you were going to run screaming away or if it was on the level of "sure, whatever". :-)03:15
mjg59jdub: Yes, I need to look into that03:15
mvojdub: that error is reported as #1435003:15
=== j^ goes in the sun and dreams of bootscreens like http://www.neystadt.org/john/album/London2003/DSCN1246-London-Eye-Wheel.JPG
pittiMithrandir: the latter :)03:15
ograj^, fix the heardware vendors ;)03:16
ograhardware even03:16
j^mjg59 i am more interested in suspend(though i still use apm) than i am in a bootsplash03:16
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mvoj^: acpi s3 works pretty well on the x30 these days03:17
j^thanks the the former i do not see the second that often03:17
jdubmvo: aha!03:17
j^mvo better than apm?03:17
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mvoj^: I think so, yes. 2.6.12 comes back very quickly from sleep. you need to pass acpi_sleep=s3_bios on the kernel commandline though03:17
mvomjg59: should #14350 be assinged to you?03:18
j^mvo no problems with broken X after resume?03:18
j^no hang every 10th suspend?03:18
mvoj^: no, I used it daily, travel with it etc. works really well in my experience03:19
j^i think its suspend with ethernet cable, resume without. bang!03:19
=== j^ tries
zulwhat kind of network cable?03:20
zulgrrrr...network card03:20
mjg59mvo: It's a duplicate03:20
j^zul e10003:21
jordiMithrandir: could be an oversight from the move to cddbs03:21
j^but it works right now with apm03:21
jordican you fil a bug?03:21
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Mithrandirjordi: it appears that it can call out to dotlock, but doesn't.03:23
Mithrandirjordi: (which is sgid mail)03:23
jordiis this 0.6.90?03:23
Mithrandir(or, 1:0.6.90-1)03:24
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jordihmm, -2 should have important fixes for imap4d03:25
jordijust for the record :)03:25
Mithrandirjordi: ok; so we want to sync that?03:25
jordilet me check something.03:26
jordiis MU in breezy, or universe?03:26
pittijordi: both :-)03:26
Mithrandirjordi: universe03:27
jordii meant main :)03:27
jordiMithrandir: -2 should be good03:27
jordiI seem to have -3 unreleased with a related fix for the testsuite, but it's not important03:27
Mithrandirhm, should we wait for that?03:28
jordiI could upload right away.03:28
jordi+  * debian/patches/05_imap4d_bad_uid.patch: fix the imap4d testsuite to03:28
jordi+    match the uid behaviour.03:28
jordiit's just this03:29
Mithrandirok, goodie.  And then please get it synced. :-)03:29
jordiI'll say here03:29
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jordiMithrandir: why do you say movemail should be sgid?03:33
Mithrandirjordi: how is it going to dotlock else?03:33
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lu|awayget thee to a real desktop OS03:40
ograjdub, complain at pitti ;)03:40
=== pitti protects his ears and agrees to jdub
jdubno, it's not his fault03:40
jordioh dude03:40
jdubtoo many people shitting in the swamp for just one man03:40
jordiI'm out of here03:40
jdub(even if that man is the inimitable pitti)03:40
ograjdub, sure, he didnt rewrite it :)03:40
jordiMithrandir: yeah03:41
TreenaksWasn't ALSA supposed to be this phoenix?03:41
pittiTreenaks: in a century, maybe03:41
Treenakspitti: urgh03:41
jordiTreenaks: let's say it's taking some time to rise :)03:41
pittiTreenaks: in fact it works quite well on the cards where it works at all03:41
pittiTreenaks: unfortunately there are too many cards it doesn't work on...03:41
j^mvo my x30 does not sleep if i press Fn-F403:42
j^and with acpi the disk is checkted even without power03:42
Treenakspitti: nice03:42
j^mjg59 is it a known problem that uspalsh goes away at the time / is mounted?03:42
pittij^: see ubuntu-devel, happens to several people03:42
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mjg59j^: Make sure you have the latest lsb-base03:45
mvoj^: hm, workf here (Fn-F4)03:45
j^sudo /etc/acpi/sleep.sh also does nothing03:47
mvoj^: oh, please have a look at /etc/defaults/acpi-support 03:48
j^mjg59 lsb-base is 3.0-1ubuntu403:48
mvothere should be a ACPI_SLEEP=true in it03:48
jdubj^: eh, rock! next stop, motu land! :)03:51
j^mvo that helps indeed :)03:53
mvoj^: :)03:53
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pittiHi jbailey 04:01
jbaileyHeya Martin04:01
pittijbailey: "testhaus"?04:01
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jbaileypitti: my ia64 box is hosted at a university in Toronto, and that's the DNS name the sysadmin gave it.04:02
lamont-awaywb Kamion 04:02
pittijbailey: sounds German :-)04:02
pittiHi lamont-away 04:02
jbaileypitti: I IRC from there when I might be rebooting a bunch so that I can run it in screen.04:02
jbaileypitti: He might be.  Generally Russ and I speak French. =)04:03
DizietIs there anyone here who knows about alignment constraints on ppc ?04:03
jbaileyDiziet: To what level of detail?04:03
DizietThe compiler aligns a jmp_buf to 16 bytes.  Is that necessary ?  An optimisation ?04:04
jbaileyDiziet: I think 16 byte alignment is required for altivec things.04:05
jbaileySo it's convenient to just do it all the time to save handling it if you're going through an altivec routine.04:06
DizietThe gs source code (all versions AFAICT) makes (according to a comment) the assumption that sizeof(a struct containing a couple of shorts and a pointer has) % alignof(jmp_buf) == 0.04:06
jbaileyErr..  Have to ask doko to be sure - I didn't think there was a promise ever on struct size, just starting pointer...04:06
DizietThe sizeof that struct is 8.04:07
Diziet(according to gcc and gdb on davis's breezy chroot).  The alignof jmp_buf is 16.  So gs's assumption is false and the algorithm breaks.04:07
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DizietI haven't looked at the gs code in enough detail (yet) to see if it really makes the assumption claimed in the comment.  It's quite complex.  But, there are at least two separate comments saying the same thing.04:09
jbaileyDiziet: Are they intentionally padding the struct somehow, or just hoping that nothing ever needs more than 8 byte alignment?04:10
DizietHoping, AFAICT.04:10
DizietThe 8-byte struct has a big union in it but none of the things in the union is a jmp_buf.04:10
DizietI can't see anything resembling a coherent justification for this assumption.04:11
Kamionsivang: jdub referred me to the specification for /ppc/bootinfo.txt, so I'm adding that file to the CD images now04:11
Kamionsivang: and the -chrp-boot mkisofs option, too. Do you have anything else I need to add?04:12
DizietThe alignof jmp_buf is only relevant because jmp_buf is one of the things which can appear in some other giant union.  I think the assumption was probably reasonable before jmp_buf was added to that other union.04:12
jbaileyDiziet: What are they doing that requires them to know about the struct's alignment?04:12
jbaileySeems like a strange requirement.04:12
jbaileyOr is just for feeding stuff into the union across multiple structs or something?04:13
DizietIt has some very fancy memory management.  Justifiable in a PostScript interpreter, I think - I just wish they'd got it right.04:13
jdubKamion: ok, so you have the yaboot.chrp (addnoted)?04:14
DizietThere's something odd going on here, actually.  I can't remember the exact rules but I thought the alignment constraints were supposed to be identical for all structs.04:14
jdubKamion: do we have both 32 and 64 bit kernels on the install disk?04:14
jdubi guess that'd be pretty huge, with modules and all04:15
Kamionjdub: yes, we have both, and yaboot is always 32-bit04:15
jdubdon't want to boot the appropriate one?04:16
Kamionthe addnote thing is a bit difficult at the moment since there's no addnote binary available on i386; would require some weird hacking04:16
Kamionthe appropriate what?04:16
jdub32 or 64 bit kernel04:16
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jdubmaybe this is a suse hack04:16
Kamionwe don't attempt that on any architecture at the moment04:16
jdubtheir yaboot will happily choose04:16
Kamionsounds like a SuSE hack, ytes04:16
jdubimage[64bit] =inst6404:17
jdub  label=install04:17
Kamionno support for that in our yaboot to my knowledge04:17
DizietNo, in fact I'm wrong about structs.04:17
jdubsuse have so much crack04:17
jdubtgall said they have some kind of console detection patch in their kernel too04:18
Kamionthat would be a useful thing to grab for our yaboot, probably04:18
Kamionbut not critical, so I think probably post-breezy04:18
mjg59Kamion: Hey 04:20
Kamionsivang: -chrp-boot and /ppc/bootinfo.txt stuff committed to my debian-cd arch repository04:20
mjg59Kamion: You've seen the bug report about the weird Toshiba that has Intel SATA RAID by default?04:20
hungerAny chance of getting kernel 2.6.13 into breezy?04:20
pittihunger: nope04:20
mjg59hunger: No04:20
mjg59hunger: What's in 2.6.13 that you want?04:21
hungerToo bad... then I have to stick with custom kernels for a while longer.04:21
Kamionmjg59: #13506?04:21
fabbionehunger: what do you need from .13?04:21
hungerLongest Uptime I got with 2.6.12 is about 3h...04:21
fabbioneyou didn't answer the question..04:21
Kamionmjg59: I kind of failed to understand the bug, possibly because I have 900 other mails ;)04:22
hungerfabbione: And that is with your breezy kernel which is *way* more stable than the vanila 2.6.12 for me.04:22
fabbionehunger: and did you file a bug?04:22
fabbionedo you get OOPS'es?04:22
Kamionsivang: next CD images will have that, too04:22
fabbionehunger: are you using binary modules?04:22
hungerfabbione: I guess TG3 and SATA fixes.04:22
zulhunger: hell no04:23
mjg59Kamion: Oops. Yeah.04:23
fabbionehunger: i use TG3 and SATA here...04:23
hungerfabbione: I am doing so with my 2.6.13 kernel, but not with the breezy one.04:23
zulhunger: same here04:23
fabbionehunger:  16:23:32 up 9 days,  8:58,  9 users,  load average: 2.91, 3.88, 4.0004:23
fabbionehunger: and no problem at all04:23
hungerfabbione: I do not know what makes 2.6.13 work better!04:23
mjg59Kamion: It's got an Intel BIOS that (by default) does SATA RAIDing04:24
mjg59Kamion: So presumably the disk has some magic header 04:24
dokoMithrandir: what about adding a dependency on lib32gcj6 in ia32-libs-openoffice.org ?04:24
mjg59Kamion: It seems that we're not dealing with that. I guess it's something that device-mapper should be recognising04:24
j^Diziet at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=514 / http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ i have new NM packages04:25
hungerfabbione: If I'd know what was wrong I'd have tried to fix it... or at least filed bugreports.04:25
mjg59Kamion: As a result the partitioner isn't useful04:25
j^there is some confusion about if and what the right way would be to get them into universe04:25
Kamionmjg59: that or parted, I suppose04:26
DizietSo you know we've given up on n-m for Breezy main ?  We're still planning to have it in Breezy+1.04:26
ograj^, no confusion... i just dont want to break stuff in advance :)04:26
mjg59Kamion: Well, the partitions inside the RAID ought to look pretty normal04:26
DizietAnd I don't think that one will want BIND9.  It'll probably use some combination of resolvconf, dnsmasq and dbus.04:26
j^ogra the last 4 days i was told to go the motu route. what you bring up now is at best confusion04:26
ograj^, to make sure that doesnt happen you and Diziet should coordinate your work :)04:26
j^Diziet what is your current plan for NM?04:27
ograj^, sorry i had network probs the last week, i wasnt always around... who told you that ?04:27
DizietMy current plan is to ignore it while we're in the middle of the Breezy crunch, but that's not what you meant :-).04:27
Lathiatogra: oh you got your dsl fixed? ;p04:27
j^ogra jdub, slomo and others04:27
ograLathiat, its still not suitable to upload iso images :)04:28
Lathiatogra: heh04:28
jbailey~[6~[6~[6~/win 704:28
Lathiatjbailey: dont you hate that04:28
Lathiatjbailey: damn paste detection04:28
ograjdub, ?04:28
jdubogra: yeah04:28
jdubogra: what's the confusion here?04:28
Lathiatso.. i have a 5 page document from customs all of them telling me i owe them money... yet not anywhere can i see where to actually send said money04:29
pittiah, seb128 seems to be back :-)04:29
ograjdub, j^  works on a vanilla NM package he wants to get into universe... i know that the package we'll have in main in breezy+1 will have quite intrusive changes... i try to get both worlds together now04:29
ograjdub, Diziet is working on it for main04:29
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jdubogra: i can't see why we'd have intrusive changes, personally04:29
jdubbut regardless,04:29
jdubj^ has done extremely awesome work04:30
jdubit should be in universe04:30
DizietSo re n-m, the idea /I/ have is that in Breezy+1 we'll be using n-m and dnsmasq.  resolv.conf will mention only the local dnsmasq and n-m will drive dnsmasq somehow (either resolvconf or dbus).04:30
infinityDiziet : How do you propose to get bind9's network views (for VPNs and such) without using bind9?04:30
ograjdub, might be... but can you guarantee that a breezy+1 version Diziet reworked for us wont break all network setups out there ? 04:30
jdubDiziet: i don't think dnsmasq buys us anything04:30
DizietIt buys us not having BIND9.04:30
jdubogra: no, but that doesn't matter04:30
LathiatDiziet: but you add dnsmasq04:31
j^bind9 is in main04:31
jdubDiziet: that is not useful04:31
Dizietdnsmasq has some simple support for sending different queries to different places, AFAIAA.04:31
DizietNot having BIND9 isn't useful ?04:31
ograjdub, its still scheduled for breezy+1 so i'm carefull about such stuff04:31
infinityDiziet : What do you fear from bind9?04:31
jdubogra: there's no need - it's in universe04:31
DizietI've seen the source.  300kloc !04:31
j^if dnsmasq it would have to be the dbus enabled version which is currently worked on04:31
ograjdub, exactly... ;)04:31
j^resolvconf is out again04:31
Lathiatogra: why shouldnt we have working network-manager packages now for unvierse, just because we have plans for breezy+1...04:31
j^i do not see any place for resolvconf04:31
jdubogra: we ought to get it in now, get people who care to test it in preparation04:32
DizietI don't have an opinion about resolvconf vs dbus atm.  resolvconf did seem slightly less edificial.04:32
ograLathiat, i dont say we shouldnt have them, i say plaese coordinate the work between universe and main04:32
siretartDiziet: do you have any and if yes, what objections do you have about j^'s package for universe?04:32
Lathiatj^: so that your isnt broken by some other package updating it04:32
ograjdub, i'm not opposed to that... i'm just missing communication04:32
DizietDo I have any what ?04:32
Lathiatsince afaict pretty myuch everything usefull in debian suppots resolvconf04:32
ograDiziet, objections04:33
DizietThe standard way that resolvconf is supposed to work is totally broken.  You can't update resolv.conf on the fly like that and expect it to work.  All of that stuff about going and poking various applications is never going to get all of them and the result will just be flakey.04:33
DizietBut that doesn't mean we can't use it as an interface to drive dnsmasq.04:33
jdubDiziet: upstream have chosen to use bind for very good, thoroughly well discussed reasons04:34
jdubtossing bind (which will be the maximally tested configuration) for religious reasons is not all that sensible04:34
DizietI haven't looked at j^'s package for universe.  Are you asking me to review it ?  The real question is how badly things will break if and when we do something different in Breezy+1.04:34
jdub(i trust bind9 more than i trust other dns servers)04:34
Dizietjdub: I don't have time to get into BIND9 vs. XYZ right now.04:35
jdubif we need to do something different in breezy+1 (and i guarantee you n-m will be changing in the mean time anyway), we can say:04:35
jduba) n-m was in universe so we don't have to support upgrade issues04:35
jdubb) it's unlikely we're going to change anything that would effect the user-side configuration anyway04:36
jdubso stonewalling on putting it in *universe* for breezy seems like pointless wheel-spinning04:36
siretartDiziet: if you are intersted, j^ package can be seen here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=514 04:37
DizietI'm new here; the reason I'm hesitating giving my blessing is because I don't know really what the policy is.  Bear with me a moment while I get a handle on things, please ?04:37
siretartI think we should either remove n-m from breezy/universe now or take j^ updated package04:38
Dizietn-m in breezy/universe atm is pretty damn broken, certainly.04:38
siretartDiziet: sorry. I didn't want to do any preassure on you. take as much time you need to review and consider all opinions04:38
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eruinwill gtk 2.8.3 make it into breezy?04:39
elmohmm, someone upgrading from hoary is going to download oo1 from universe; I wonder if that's desirable and/or fixable04:39
Kamionit's true that it's officially Not A Problem (i.e. not release-critical) if upgrades from stuff formerly in universe fail; OTOH I'd still consider it a bug for that to happen, and I think it would depend on the severity of the upgrade breakage04:39
elmoeruin: if it's part of gnome 2.12, it will, yes04:39
jdubunderneath all of this is the continuing in-development nature of n-m - things *will* change04:39
Kamioni.e. if it's breakage that tells you that the upgrade isn't supported and you need to do stuff by hand, fine; if it silently breaks and clobbers lots of stuff, not so fine04:40
Dizietk: Would we prefer the current pretty broken situation to it at least sort of working in universe how even if that means breaking it later ?04:40
eruinelmo, okay, I was wondering because of bug #14251, which is solved in 2.8.304:40
Dizietk: Oh, right.  Well we can probably turn any hideous breaking into a dialogue :-).04:40
jdubDiziet: there is no solid indication that it will break for breezy+104:41
KamionDiziet: to a large extent it's up to the universe maintainers, but I think they're quite entitled to say that they want either something that works or nothing rather than a broken thing04:41
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KamionI have no opinion on whether we should have something that works or nothing other than to note that the latter will probably generate more whinemail :-)04:41
Kamions/works/sort of works/g04:42
Dizietjdub: Indeed so, but I don't want to be spending lots of effort in breezy+1 working out a smooth transition.04:42
=== ogra expects breakage with NM to be quite serious... for networking
Dizietk: :-).04:42
jdubDiziet: you're assuming breakage04:42
DizietI've been working on software for some years.  Yes, I do assume breakage :-).04:42
=== hunger just hopes NM does not break too much of his /e/n/i setup if it gets automagically installed.
jdubhunger: it uses it to seed configuration04:43
j^hunger thats breezy+1 so..04:43
jdubDiziet: you're assuming it in an unproductive way04:43
hungerjdub: Yeap... but not too well so far.04:43
jdubj^ has done an excellent job creating these packages04:43
jdubthey work really nicely04:43
jdubgetting them tested during breezy lifecycle will be a huge benefit04:43
DizietBut, I think the discussion has produced a clear answer in my mind, anyway: I don't have an objection to the MOTU's putting j^'s package in breezy universe.04:43
KamionI don't think we (i.e. Canonical staff) should be spending lots of time now reviewing stuff for universe that we know isn't going to make it into main for breezy04:44
Dizietk: Quite so.04:44
jdubanything we change below the user-side configuration is probably not going to have an enormous effect anyway, assuming we don't do insane things04:44
Kamionif the general approach seems to be tenable, letting the MOTUs get on with it is much better than spending time on code review04:44
hungerjdub: My dozend WLAN keys in /e/n/i is confusing NM a tiny little bit;-)04:44
Kamionmaybe with the odd check that whatever approach is being taken isn't digging us into an enormous pit we can't get out of somehow later04:45
jdubhunger: i was under the impression they would be ignored04:45
Dizietk: Right.04:45
j^hunger editing /e/n/i by hand to get your keys in was never supported by ubuntu anyway04:45
jdubKamion: (j^'s work is fully inline with what upstream are doing)04:45
Dizietjdub/ogra/j^/etc.> Is that all you want from me now ?  I'd like to get back to cursing GhostScript.04:45
hungerj^: Yeap... Basically WLAN was never supported.04:45
Kamionjdub: I hadn't checked so didn't want to assume any particular approach; I was trying to stick to generalities rather than getting into the detail of n-m04:46
hungerjdub: Yeap... but "mappings" does confuse NM.04:46
siretartogra: ?04:46
ograKamion, jdub, Diziet, all i was requesting before even thinking about including j^'s package was that at least the main maintainer and the universe maintaine have talked with each other, i didnt want a review or anything... MOTU can handle that themselves ;)04:46
hungerjdub: Expecially when the mapping is using a iwlist scan result;-)04:47
ograi just hate duplicate work... 04:47
ogra...through missing communication...04:47
jdubogra: unfortunately, we duplicated j^'s work for a while there too :-) so now we're pretty much sorted, i hope04:47
Dizietogra: Right, that's sensible.  And thanks for bringing it up.04:48
ograha ha 04:49
jdubMigrating old dbus init symlinks to runlevel 12 ...04:50
jdubupdate-rc.d: /etc/init.d/dbus exists during rc.d purge (continuing)04:50
jdubuh oh04:50
jdubmay we live in interesting times04:50
ograerr, EWRONGWIN04:50
pittielmo: can I please have the gnumeric build deps in concordia's breezy?04:50
sivangdo we have a community council meeting today?04:52
Lathiatsivang: yes in about 5 hours04:53
LathiatTue Aug 30 14:53:17 UTC 200504:53
Lathiaterr, 7 ?04:53
Lathiatno, 504:53
jbaileyLathiat: Pick a timezone, any timezone. =)04:54
Lathiatmine, 4am :(04:54
sivangLathiat: k, thanks04:55
elmopitti: done04:55
pittielmo: thanks04:55
mdzjanimo: yes?05:04
mdzDiziet: yes?05:05
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fabbionemdz: /j #ubuntu-kernel please05:05
fabbionemorning :)05:05
janimomdz, sent mail to u-d, regarding /usr/bin/which in usplash integration in lsb-scripts05:05
janimomdz, it's not in the path but called as which so it generates errors on the screen05:05
Dizietmdz: Hello.  Just wanted to talk to you about gs; things have moved on a bit.05:05
mdzjanimo: works fine here05:06
DizietI've found what I think is the problem afflicting all ppc gs's.05:06
mdzjanimo: with which init script are you having problems?05:06
DizietSeeing that even Debian's gs-gpl 8 crashed showed that the diffs were a red herring.  Presumably our gs-esp 8 only works by chance.05:07
janimohmm, I am not sure the errors were pointing to /lib/lsb/init-functions or something05:07
janimolines looking like if which usplash >/dev/null .....fi05:07
mdzKamion: welcome back05:07
janimoand which not being found05:07
janimoI updated usplash and lsb-init and initramfs as mjg59 asked05:08
janimoI am not fully dist-upgraded so maybe some scripts are not uptodate then if you say it works for you05:09
mjg59mdz: Oh, this'll presumably be stuff that gets run before /usr is mounted?05:10
mjg59janimo: You have /usr on a separate partition?05:10
pittiHi mdz 05:10
mjg59pitti: hal doesn't send acpi events05:10
pittimjg59: do you use a python client?05:10
mjg59pitti: In fact, none of the addons ever seem to run properly05:10
janimomhg59, nope05:10
mjg59janimo: What shell is /bin/sh ?05:11
mjg59Uhm. Which is a bash builtin.05:11
janimoI thought it would call which form debianutils05:11
mjg59pitti: Uh. This is running hald in verbose mode and lshal monitoring05:11
janimothen I am not sure why this happens.05:12
mjg59pitti: If you stop acpid, restart hal and then press the power button, you should get a hal event05:12
pittimjg59: ok, because python clients are broken atm05:12
mdzmjg59: yes, it should probably handle it more gracefully05:12
janimoIf it reoccurs I'll try debugging it I won;t be on this machine for about a week05:12
mdzmjg59: I'm not particularly interested in doing a dance to try to make it work on systems with a separate /usr05:13
mdzpitti: morning05:13
pittimjg59: you mean, you monitor with dbus-monitor, not lshal? or you compare lshal before and after?05:13
janimomjg59, when I say which in bash it calls /usr/bin/which05:13
mdzmjg59: I didn't think which was a bash builtin05:13
mjg59janimo: Oh, ups. Sorry, I'm running zsh.05:13
Kamionmdz: hiya05:13
janimomdz,mjg59 it's not a separate partition05:13
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mdzjanimo: <mdz> janimo: with which init script are you having problems?05:14
Kamionmjg59: which is definitely not a bash builtin; look at /usr/bin/which to see how to do it in portable sh ...05:14
mdzjanimo: I'm asking which init scripts are producing the errors05:14
janimobut in the lsb-functions scripts I see other binaries in /usr/bin are called from there explicitely only which isn't05:14
mdzjanimo: many init scripts mangle the PATH05:14
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Kamionmjg59: often, 'type' is good enough, and you don't need anything more complex05:14
mdzjanimo: those hardcoded paths in there are bugs05:15
Kamionmjg59: (type is portable as long as you avoid weirder options)05:15
mdzI'm just not fixing them until after the release05:15
mjg59pitti: Well, dbus-monitor shows nothing either05:15
janimomdz, I don't know which initscripts called lsb-functions I didn;t look05:15
janimoas I said they may not be uptodate if it works for you05:15
mjg59pitti: If I run hald in verbose mode, I get output whenever the battery status changes. I don't get output when I push a button05:15
mdzjanimo: they all do.  I'm asking which ones printed errors.05:15
Kamionmjg59: (I usually do 'if type foo >/dev/null 2>&1; then ...; fi'05:15
mdzjanimo: I haven't made any changes which would cause a change in that05:16
janimoI mean I don;t know which printed the errors ;)05:16
mjg59Kamion: Heh. This is mdz's code :)05:16
mdzjanimo: could you find out, please?05:16
pittimjg59: hm, has that ever worked, i. e. is a recent regression?05:16
janimoOk I'll reboot and try to look05:16
mjg59pitti: It's supposed to work05:16
janimoback in 10 minutes05:16
mdzjanimo: thanks05:16
mjg59pitti: Otherwise gnome-power-manager can't work05:16
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pittimjg59: for testing, how can I stop the power button from shutting down my machine?05:16
mjg59pitti: Stop acpid05:17
pittiah, ok05:17
mjg59pitti: You'll then need to restart hal, because it will have bound to the acpid socket rather than /proc/acpi/event05:17
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ograpitti, cant you just press your lid button ?05:20
pittiogra: I mean on my desktop; my laptop will sleep on power button/lid, but of course I can stop pbbuttonsd there and test it on powerpc as well05:21
mjg59I've no idea whether hal is supposed to deal with button press events on PPC05:22
pittiguys, I need some minutes to finish the gnumeric security update, I will test that later05:22
mdzDiziet: so you're saying we don't actually want the new gs-esp now?05:24
JaneWBREEZYGOALS - Please update the status on any BreezyGoals which have made progress in the past week. Some are still listed as WIP, even though the Preview Freeze is in 2 days time.... 05:24
Dizietmdz: I think that's right.  I'm doing some tests on my new build and will let you know later.05:27
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janimomdz, I couldn't reproduce :(. Usplash bails out after battery checking but no sign of which errors as last time05:29
janimoI get instead if it's any use /init: line 89 chmod not found on one of the last lines05:29
mdzjanimo: I don't know what the problem is, then05:30
mdzbut it isn't your PATH05:30
ograi get the same here... i think jbailey said something about the chmod stuff yesterday05:31
janimoI probably need a full dist-upgrade05:31
ivoksno one has problems with ACPI since update today?05:31
fabbioneelmo: pcre3_4.5-1.1ubuntu0.5.04_sparc.changes UNACCEPT <-05:31
fabbioneelmo: sorry but i am not sure i can do anything for it05:31
elmoI've just killed it anyway05:31
fabbioneelmo: thanks05:32
fabbioneis there anything else i need to do?05:32
fabbionei am not even sure why i get it...05:32
pittifabbione: this was very odd - it arrived quite late, and then I couldn't release it05:32
elmono, nothing you need to do05:32
fabbioneelmo: ok thanks05:32
elmofabbione: you get it because that part of dak sucks05:32
mdzelmo: did you find out what was happening with arch: all builds?05:32
elmoand having it spam the maintainer forces us to fix it ;)05:32
elmomdz: yes, it got broke by the change in architecture; I've fixed it05:32
mdzelmo: thanks05:32
fabbioneelmo: ahahah05:33
elmotho, with a 30min cron.daily the spam goes from mildly irritating to rude and unpleasant05:33
fabbioneelmo: i didn't get that mail so often....05:33
fabbioneonly 4/5 times probably...05:34
elmooh, that's because you were only getting it when pitti tried to amber it05:34
fabbioneand i recall it from a couple of days ago...05:34
pittifabbione: oh, sorry :-/05:34
elmobut non-security uploads UNACCEPTS _will_ happen every 30 mins05:34
fabbioneso it has been ambered or did you just kill it?05:34
elmoso they make lamont cry05:34
fabbionepitti: don't worry dude...05:34
elmoI killed it, it's obsoleted by a newer source security upload05:34
fabbioneelmo: perfect.. thanks05:34
pittifabbione: interesting ways to send you mail :-)05:35
fabbionepitti: via amber? ;)05:35
fabbionepitti: it was enough the crack :05:35
pittifabbione: do you always get mail when I release sparc updates?05:35
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fabbionepitti: yes.. i get the ACCPTED message that usually i don't care to read05:36
mjg59ivoks: What sort of problem?05:39
mdzKamion: /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/debootstrap/breezy-amd64: line 3: finddebs_style: command not found05:40
mdzKamion: is that important?05:40
ivoksmjg59: hal-addon-acpi lock /proc/acpi/event05:40
ivoksmjg59: and acpid can't start cause of that05:40
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pittimjg59: doesn't work in hoary either05:40
mjg59ivoks: Interesting.05:41
ivoksmjg59: s/lock/locks/05:41
mjg59pitti: No, that doesn't surprise me05:41
pittimjg59: well, hal 0.5.4 has tons of bug fixes and also ACPI updates05:41
mjg59pitti: But it's *supposed* to05:41
pittimjg59: I will try it05:41
mjg59ivoks: Now, that's interesting.05:42
mjg59ivoks: Do you still have hal-addon-acpi running?05:42
ivoksmjg59: yes... locking event :)05:42
mjg59ivoks: And what version of hal?05:42
mjg59ivoks: We're currently discussing the problem that this doesn't seem to work for anyone else05:42
ograpitti, there was no functional code in hoary for acpi/hal stuff05:42
ivoksmjg59: (0.5.3-0ubuntu10)05:42
mjg59ivoks: Ok, thanks05:42
ivoksmjg59: just did reinstall of hal and acpid... no changes05:43
mjg59ivoks: No, I wouldn't expect there to be05:43
ograpitti, but 0.5.3 is supposed to work...05:43
mdzKamion,mjg59: switched from 'which' to 'type' in init-functions, rc and rcS05:43
mdzsince it's a built-in and should be faster05:43
pittiogra: hmm, no idea then05:43
mdzthough which *is* in fact in /bin05:43
=== phlaegel_ is now known as phlaegel
ivoksmjg59: me too, but i messed a lot with acpi, so i wanted to get clean configs...05:44
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjg59pitti: Ok. hald-addon-acpi should be running. It isn't.05:44
pittimjg59: right, neither it does for me05:44
mjg59pitti: That's a bug05:45
pittimjg59: I only have hald-addon-storage05:45
Kamionmdz: annoying but unimportant05:45
mjg59pitti: I don't even have that, but still05:45
Kamionmdz: it makes the are-all-debootstrapped-packages-there? check not work, but that check doesn't matter much any more now we have automagic debootstrap05:45
ogramjg59, i have it and it runs.05:46
ogramjg59, but i still dont get acpi events05:46
mjg59ogra: It's running? In the background?05:46
ograogra@honk:~/edubuntu-artwork-0.1.0 $ ps ax|grep acpi05:46
ogra    7 ?        S<     0:00 [kacpid] 05:46
ogra 4409 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/acpid -c /etc/acpi/events -s /var/run/acpid.socket05:46
ogra 4645 ?        S      0:00 hald-addon-acpi05:46
mjg59ogra: Can you strace it and see if it's getting events?05:46
mjg59ogra: My suspicion is that it may not be sensible enough to have bound to the acpid socket05:46
ograhmm, is it supposed to talk to acpid ? i thought it reads from proc ? 05:47
mdzhas anyone tested a daily install CD recently?05:47
mjg59ogra: It can't read from proc if acpid has already bound to the event file05:47
ogramdz, my last edubuntu was on sunday...05:48
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mdzogra: we need tests with the new xorg05:48
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ogramdz, on edubuntu desktop-base seems gone, any idea why ? 05:48
ogramjg59, ah, ok05:49
mdzKamion: hmm05:49
mdzKamion: [1] -  5685 Stopped (tty input)     cron.daily-live05:49
mdzKamion: I usually run it in the background without issue05:49
ivoksogra: mjg59 if acpid is started before dbus, then it's ok05:49
mjg59ivoks: Yes, that's what I'd expect05:49
mjg59ivoks: But right now I'm trying to track down why this doesn't actually seem to work at all for most people05:49
mdzKamion: happened at this point: Running tools/boot/breezy/boot-powerpc 1 /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/tmp/breezy-powerpc/CD105:49
ivokscause dbus is S12 and acpid S20? :)05:50
mvomdz: I downloaded one today but haven't managed to test it yet. should I do that now?05:50
mjg59ivoks: No05:50
ivoksogra: when was last time you reboot your breezy?05:50
mjg59ivoks: Because hal is broken05:50
mjg59ivoks: I'll fix your bug once I've worked out what's wrong with hal05:50
ograivoks, ~ 2h ago for usplash testing05:51
ivoksogra: ok...05:51
mdzKamion: maybe your yaboot changes?05:51
mdzmvo: please05:51
Kamionmdz: could be, let me have a look05:52
Kamionmdz: did the change to cdimage user happen without incident?05:52
pittimjg59: 05:53
pitti29379: 17:52:37.803: addon-acpi.c:115: Cannot open /proc/acpi/event: Permission denied - trying /var/run/acpid.socket05:53
pitti29379: 17:52:37.803: addon-acpi.c:127: Cannot open /var/run/acpid.socket - bailing out05:53
mdzKamion: the cron jobs seem to have been working, yes05:53
mjg59pitti: Ok. Now, why is that failing?05:53
mdzKamion: I've still been running ad-hoc builds as mdz05:53
=== mjg59 looks
pittiodd, since it is 66605:53
pittimjg59: just to be clear, it is supposed to take the socket, not the proc file, right?05:54
DizietHow strange.  Now I can't get gs-esp to build from source on i386.  I'm sure it worked yesterday.  (But perhaps that was on sarge not breezy.)05:54
mjg59pitti: If acpid is running, it should take the socket05:54
pittimjg59: oops, yes05:54
mjg59If acpid is not running, it should open /proc/acpi/event05:54
pittimjg59: I stopped it05:54
mjg59Right. What user does hald run as?05:54
pittimjg59: hal05:54
Kamionmdz: could you ctrl-c your build so I can try it out?05:54
mjg59Ok. It's not going to be able to open /proc/acpi/event05:54
pittimjg59: I stopped acpid to not shutdown my box when I press the power button05:54
pittimjg59: right05:54
ivokspitti: 666? here is 400...05:55
mdzKamion: done05:55
pittisrw-rw-rw-  1 root root 0 2005-08-30 12:09 /var/run/acpid.socket05:55
ivoksah, socket...05:55
pittiivoks: yes, /proc/acpi/event05:55
mjg59pitti: Ok. hal needs to be started after acpid05:55
mjg59Otherwise it does stupid stuff05:55
pittimjg59: ok, any chance I can run acpid without shutting down my box?05:56
mjg59pitti: Yes, just move /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh05:56
ogramjg59, note that it will slow down the boot for about 4secs, i did tests for hwdb in hoary...05:56
mjg59ogra: What will?05:56
ogra(running acpid before hal)05:56
mjg59ogra: We either run acpid before hal or hal doesn't work as it's supposed to05:57
mvonautilus-cd-burner hates me today and refues to burn on my cdrw 05:57
ograacpid is run after gdm currently 05:57
mjg59ogra: We have a choice between correct or slow.05:57
pittimjg59: right, now it works05:57
mjg59pitti: No, it doesn;t05:57
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mjg59pitti: acpi events aren't sent05:57
=== mvo goes back to cdrecord
pittimjg59: the connection, I meant05:57
mjg59pitti: Ah :)05:58
mjg59pitti: Sorry, yes.05:58
ogramjg59, i just wanted to point that out, since my patches were rejected by thom in hoary because of this..05:58
mjg59Seems to work for me, too05:58
pittimjg59: also events05:58
pittisignal sender=:1.7 -> dest=(null destination) interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition05:58
pitti string "ButtonPressed"05:58
pittistring ""05:58
pittimjg59: ^thats what hal sends for the power button05:58
=== mjg59 watches g-p-m work
Lathiatmjg59: like, work work?05:59
mjg59Lathiat: Like, work work05:59
Lathiatas in all the options?05:59
pittimjg59: humm, so we need hald running before gdm, otherwise we could see races at session start05:59
mjg59I pressed the power button and g-p-m gave me a notification05:59
pittimjg59: so we don't have much of a choicee05:59
mjg59pitti: Yeah05:59
mdzKamion: looks like this could happen if none of the cases in the if/elif at line 94 trigger05:59
mjg59I'll upload a fixed acpid05:59
mjg59Oh. Hrm.06:00
mdzKamion: of course, I'd think that CDIMAGE_LIVE would be true...06:00
mjg59What's the right way of changing startup priority?06:00
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pittimjg59: it takes maybe 0.3 seconds here to start up, not much of a regression...06:00
ivoksok, then that's fixed...06:00
pittimjg59: dbus recently did it06:00
pittimjg59: maybe steal from daniel's postinst :-)06:00
mjg59pitti: Presumably postinst has to deal with the case?06:00
pittiI guess06:00
mjg59Hm. dbus doesn't seem to have anything to handle it in its postinst06:01
Kamionmdz: reproduced, thanks for the hint - looks plausible06:01
ogramjg59, dh_installinit ??06:01
Kamionmdz: judging from ps that's not it, though06:02
mjg59ogra: That's fine for new installs06:02
pittiogra: you have to preserve local symlink configurations06:02
mjg59ogra: I don't think it can handle the case of something changing06:02
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ograhmm, how does dbus do it then ? 06:02
pittimjg59: I /msged you the postinst code of dbus06:03
mjg59My dbus must predate that06:04
Kamionmdz: fixed now, I think; testing06:04
dokoogra: do you need schooltool and schoolbell in main for edubuntu?06:07
pittistill, the hal 0.5.4 changes look tempting...06:08
slomoelmo: the ppc buildds are broken... no space left... see this for example: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/h/hasciicam/0.9.1-1.1ubuntu1/hasciicam_0.9.1-1.1ubuntu1_20050830-1646-powerpc-failed.gz06:09
=== jordi giggles at his quotes file.
jorditoo bad seb isn't here.06:10
jordi15:55 <@seb128> I'm pretty sure that's not a gtk bug06:10
jordihe really said it06:10
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DizietNo, this new ppc binary is fundamentally hosed.  Less so than it was, but still fundamentally hosed.06:11
Kamionoh ye hideous screaming gods, 1120 new messages in breezy-changes06:13
Kamionyou lot have been busy06:13
NafalloKamion: lol, that's a nice way to put it ;-)06:14
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sivangerr, gods?06:16
NafalloKamion: welcome back btw :-)06:17
Kamionmdz: ok, fixed, try again06:17
pittiNafallo: btw, I noticed some recent security uploads from you to breezy; please always prefer a package sync over an -ubuntu upload06:21
Nafallopitti: talking about kismet?06:22
pittiNafallo: yes, that was it06:22
Nafallopitti: I've tried to find insolated patches, but I haven't had any luck :-/06:22
pittiNafallo: I meant, you used the Debian version and uploaded it as ubuntu1, right?06:23
infinityslomo : Fixed.06:23
sivanginfinity: I got over that issues I had with debmirror, apparently ftp was blocked here so I used --method=ftp06:24
pittiNafallo: no, for breezy (i. e. unstable), syncing from Debian is preferred over patching06:24
slomoinfinity: thanks :) can you start a rebuild for hasciicam / aatv / mono? they failed because of that06:24
Nafallopitti: yepp, took the debian version and merged our changes.06:24
KamionKeybuk: I guess making binfmt-support depend on lsb-base was too hard? ;-)06:24
infinityslomo : Are those the only ones?06:25
pittiNafallo: according to the changelog there aren't any Ubunut changes06:25
slomoinfinity: wait06:25
Nafallopitti: let me check :-)06:25
KeybukKamion: mm06:25
Keybukoops :)06:25
slomoinfinity: uh... much more06:26
slomoinfinity: everything from kvpnc to mmv06:27
slomoinfinity: mmv is 13:08 GMT06:27
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gans10can someone help me in #ubuntuppc06:28
slomoinfinity: but there were some successull ppc builds in that time... hmm06:28
infinityslomo : Obviously, there are three ppc buildds, only one was out of space.06:28
gans10i have a problem booting liveppc cd06:28
elmowow, my terminal is entirely SNAFU after a breezy upgrade06:28
slomoinfinity: shall i make a list of all failed packages or is this easier for you?06:29
infinityslomo : I like lists.06:29
Nafallopitti: wow! I seemed to have dropped them :-(. I guess I should fix that.06:29
gans10can someone help me in #ubuntuppc06:29
gans10i have a problem booting liveppc cd06:29
=== Nafallo hugs REVU
pittiNafallo: dropped the changes, or just the changelog?06:29
elmoonly within the running screen session tho06:29
elmoho hum06:29
Nafallopitti: the changelog, I knew what changes we did by heart already :-)06:30
infinityelmo : How much do I have to bribe you to get more disk space in royal? :)06:31
infinityelmo : Alternately, I should make sure *-desktop is uninstallable most of the time, so the livecd builds fail and don't fill the fs.06:31
Kamiongans10: don't see why it needs a separate channel06:31
Kamiongans10: are you using a G5?06:31
gans10something withxorg06:32
gans10it flashes several times06:32
Kamionah, probably not something I know about then unfortunately06:32
mvomdz: installing now (stage2), got a debconf message from toshset that it will not work :)06:32
infinitymvo : mjg59's already been larted for that.06:33
mvoinfinity: heh, ok06:33
DizietOK, so what will go wrong if my jmp_buf's are not 16-byte aligned on ppc ?06:35
elmoinfinity: it has a 3rd drive06:35
KamionKeybuk: also your change has Nathaniel-esque set -e breakage :-P I'm incorporating it into Debian at the moment, and will fix it06:35
elmoinfinity: problem is, I need to wipe + reinstall to add it06:35
elmomjg59: is the plan for that text in usplash to always be there?06:35
mjg59elmo: Always be there in what way?06:35
elmomjg59: (that text == the Starting service ..., stuff)06:35
infinityelmo : I could just mount it to ~buildd/public_html, for livcd+translation export.06:35
infinityelmo : For now, anyway.06:36
mjg59elmo: It may be dropped after Breezy, but we'll probably keep it for now06:36
KeybukKamion: meh, I cargo-culted that stuff mostly from another one06:36
elmowell, hum, sure06:36
elmo^-- infinity: sorry06:36
elmomjg59: hum, ok, silbs is concerned that makes usplash kind of like normal boot except with a progress bar ;)06:37
elmooh, well, as I can HEAR from her NOISY client, silbs is here, so I'm sure she can speak for herself ;)06:37
silbselmo: quit talking about me and the noise won't bother you06:37
DizietCan I compile a specific program without altivec support ?06:38
mjg59elmo: Heh. If there's consensus that the text shouldn't be there, we can probably remove it06:38
DizietBecause this 16-byte-aligned jmp_buf violates too many assumptions in gs.06:38
infinityelmo : Do you trust me to abuse root for that, or will you do it when you find a round tuit?06:38
KamionDiziet: -mno-altivec06:38
Kamiongive that after any -mcpu06:39
elmoinfinity: I'm on it06:39
silbsmjg59: it was just my first reaction to see usplash for the first time.  Gut reaction more than a thoughtful consensus. 06:39
infinityelmo : rock.06:39
mjg59silbs: At the moment we don't really have any infrastructure for passing on failures to the user06:39
Dizietk: And this is allowed ?  I mean, I can do that in Breezy ?06:39
mjg59I can think of a couple of ways to hack around it, but nothing terribly breezyable06:39
KamionDiziet: oh, yes, that's fine06:40
elmocfdisk on the Xserves is amusingly SNAFU06:40
elmoit reckons / is all free space06:40
mjg59Oh argh why does PowerManager not create a pidfile?06:40
Kamionelmo: mac-fdisk?06:40
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Kamioncfdisk probably expects PC-style partition tables or something06:40
elmoKamion: yeah, I guess - I wish cfdisk would be less unhelpful tho06:40
Dizietk: Excellent.06:40
Kamionthere are two partition table types in common use on powerpc, which is painful06:40
=== mvo watches breezy installing with progress bar in the downloading languges mode ... sweet
elmoboggle, this "blank" hard drive from Apple has a non-empty HFS partition06:41
silbsmjg59: breezyable is the name of the game these days. If it's not in that category,then no need to talk about it now :)06:41
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infinityelmo : fdisk is the only way to go on PPC.. I don't know why we even ship cfdisk.06:42
infinityelmo : fdisk appears to be smart enough to figure out apple and PC style tables.06:42
DizietHrm.  -mno-altivec doesn't seem to change the compiler's idea of the alignment for jmp_buf.06:43
mjg59Oh, FFS.06:43
KamionDiziet: -mabi=no-altivec maybe?06:43
elmoinfinity: cfdisk is useful for e.g. usb sticks06:43
Kamionif not that, it must be something other than AltiVec06:44
Dizietk: google seems to suggest that produces an incompatible abi which will therefore break.06:44
mvoping jamesh 06:44
infinityelmo : If cfdisk was rewritten to just be a shell frontend to libparted, I'd probably like it better, cause it would stop doing silly things like claiming a disk is empty. :)06:44
DizietOh, no, the stupid gs build system doesn't pass my flags to genarch.06:44
DizietTo gcc when building genarch, I mean.06:44
infinityAnyhoo.  Off to bed in an attempt to get back in my own timezone.06:45
infinityelmo : Thanks in advance for making royal happy.06:45
infinity(Or, happier, anyway)06:45
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DizietBut anyway, -mabi=no-altivec doesn't change the alignment of a jmp_buf either.06:46
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=== infinity looks at his laptop on his lap, his lack of power cord, and the battery applet that claims "no battery present / running on AC power"
infinityUh huh.06:47
elmoinfinity: partition's ready, /dev/sdc206:48
ogra_ltspmdz, for my fresh installed ltsp client X autodetection didnt work it seems...06:48
elmoinfinity: do you want me to mv public_html's contents there?06:48
mvoKamion: the install is hanging with apt/aptitude asking for a cdrom. it looks like mozilla-firefox-locale-en was not copied onto the hd (but is available on the cd)06:48
mdzogra_ltsp: I haven't changed anything06:48
mdzogra_ltsp: did it ever work on this client?06:48
ogra_ltspmdz, what about x packages ? 06:49
infinityelmo : If you wouldn't mind, that would be cool.  I should go find a bed.06:49
mdzogra_ltsp: I didn't change the X packages either06:49
infinityelmo : And if you do it, I can blame you if things go missing. :)06:49
ogra_ltspmdz, sure until yesterday06:49
ogra_ltspmdz, the client has versioned deps ? 06:49
ogra_ltspthere was an X upload recently... 06:49
mdzogra_ltsp: yes...06:50
mvoKamion: I pass a "need cdrom" question on the status-fd in apt easily if you need that06:50
mdzogra_ltsp: if it isn't working for you, then you should file a bug06:50
dholbachslomo: did you write that transitions page?06:50
ogra_ltsphmm, strange then...06:50
mdzogra_ltsp: you know how to debug it, right?06:50
slomodholbach: yes06:50
dholbachslomo: thank you for that - i linked it on MOTUTodo06:50
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Kamionmvo: yes, that would very much help06:50
ogra_ltspmdz, the X startup ? 06:51
mdzogra_ltsp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingXAutoconfiguration06:51
mdzogra_ltsp: then file a bug against xserver-xorg06:51
mdzogra_ltsp: it will automatically be assigned to daniels06:51
Kamionmvo: it's possible that language-* copying isn't working right; just before I left, I noticed that it didn't follow dependencies06:52
slomodholbach: can you check whether i got the status of the transitions in main right?06:52
ogra_ltspKamion, mdz, can anybody tell me why desktop-base is gone from edubuntu iso's since saturday ? or tell me where to look for the reason ? 06:52
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mdzogra_ltsp: /usr/share/gnome-session/changelog.Debian.gz06:53
mdzogra_ltsp: why?06:53
DizietAha!  Found the problem in the gs bugzilla.  http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=68764306:53
ogra_ltspgnome-session breaks on it...06:53
dholbachslomo: seems ok to me, but will doublecheck next week06:54
slomodholbach: thanks :)06:54
mdzogra_ltsp: gnome-session is working fine here06:54
mdzogra_ltsp: perhaps you could do some analysis and file a bug?06:54
ogra_ltspmdz, it requires some files in place that arent there... i need to do a new install to get the error... last time i was on it, i was dragged away by initramfs-tools probs06:54
mdzogra_ltsp: perhaps your gnome-session is old06:55
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mdzogra_ltsp: you need 2.11.91-0ubuntu306:55
mdzogra_ltsp: <mdz> ogra_ltsp: /usr/share/gnome-session/changelog.Debian.gz06:55
mvomdz, Kamion: modulo the missing "language-*" stuff the install worked finetest-install was sucessfull here 06:55
mdzmvo: thanks06:56
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=== xhaker is away (Away, bnc logging)
elmomdz: pls don't trigger any powerpc livecd builds06:56
dholbachinfinity: with whom would i arrange a test-rebuild of the archive? with you? or does lamont still that kind of thing?06:58
=== mjg59 has almost wonderfully working g-p-m
pittimjg59: cool07:01
mjg59Only issue is that it doesn't seem to be responding to sleep key events07:01
mjg59Oh, hang on, I know07:01
mjg59That'll be ibm-acpi07:02
mvoelmo: can I please get python-apt in the breezy chroot on concordia?07:02
=== mjg59 pokes
elmomvo: installing07:02
mvoelmo: thanks07:02
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sivangdholbach: test rebuild of the *whole* archive ? :)07:03
dholbachsivang: that's what lamont did for hoary07:03
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sivangdholbach: wow, that oughtta to take some time07:04
Amaranthcouple days07:04
mjg59pitti: Hal probably needs support to recognise various vendor hotkeys as sleep buttons07:06
mdzmjg59: so I'm not entirely sure what's happening with usplash vs. X on the live CD07:07
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mjg59mdz: Hm07:07
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mjg59mdz: What sort of symptoms?07:07
mdzmjg59: so usplash goes along fine until gdm starts07:07
mdzmjg59: the CD churns away as X is being read in parallel with all the readahead stuff07:07
ogra_ltspmdz, ok, xorg checked, it detects vmware instead of nv here... reproducable...07:07
mdzmjg59: the usplash timeout presumably expires, and I end up at a text-mode login07:08
mjg59mdz: Right07:08
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mdzmjg59: then X gets around to starting up, but doesn't switch consoles07:08
mjg59mdz: Ok07:08
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mdzmjg59: does X have some sort of paranoia check where it could notice a console switch before it has even switched itself?07:08
mdzmjg59: clearly usplash is switching first, so I'd expect X to go ahead and switch after that, and win07:09
mjg59mdz: Unsure07:09
mjg59mdz: Can you try adding a usplash_write "QUIT" to the start of the gdm script and ensure that that's working ok?07:09
mdzmjg59: can do07:10
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mdzI should check the X log also07:10
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mjg59pitti: Actually, Hal needs quite a bit of loving in this respect07:12
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mdzmjg59: yes, an explicit usplash_write QUIT lets things end up in the right place07:13
mdztrying again without it to see if X says anything useful07:13
elmobtw, are we going to usplash shutdown?07:15
mdzelmo: sure, after breezy ;-)07:16
mdzwe've pushed our luck far enough, I'd say07:16
=== Nafallo loves usplash :-)
elmoand/or ever turn most of the init.d stop scripts into no-ops?07:17
mdzmjg59: ok, very weird07:17
elmomdz: heh, ok07:17
mdzmjg59: X log halts midstep with "(++) using VT number 7"07:17
mdzmjg59: and doesn't seem to proceed until I switch over to VT 707:17
mdzmjg59: it's blocked in ioctl(3, VIDIOC_S_COMP or VT_WAITACTIVE07:18
mdzmjg59: FD 3 being /dev/tty707:18
mjg59mdz: Hmm.07:19
mjg59mdz: That's with usplash?07:19
mdzmjg59: yes07:19
mdzthat's after removing the workaround07:19
elmohum, is it known the xscreensaver dialog has regressed?07:19
mjg59mdz: Right. I'm guessing some sort of race condition, but I'm not sure what.07:19
elmoI can't see in bugzilla but maybe I'm being stoopid07:19
mdzmjg59: I can understand X wanting to do a VT_WAITACTIVE, but surely it's doing a VT_ACTIVATE immediately before that, and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't work07:20
Kamionelmo: is shutdown slow enough to merit that? it seems a bit risky to just power off under the feet of a lot of daemons07:20
elmoKamion: I don't have working suspend/resume, so yeah, I find shutdown annoyingly slow07:21
elmobut then I'm hyperactively impatient07:21
mdzmjg59: I guess it's possible that we're ending up with 1. X does VT_ACTIVATE 2. usplash does VT_ACTIVATE, 3. X does VT_WAITACTIVE [blocks] 07:21
mjg59mdz: Yeah07:21
mdzmjg59: what was the plan with -novtswitch?  do we have some reasonable way to determine which vt X is using, so we can switch there ourselves?07:22
elmohey, this is breezy07:22
elmomaybe I do have working suspend/resume07:22
mdzelmo: yes, it is known, ogra and I talked about it and I thought he was going to upload it last week sometime07:22
elmohmm, nope07:22
sivangelmo: can I get whitelisted or whatever neede to receive mails from your beloved katie?07:22
elmoogra_ltsp: ?07:22
elmosivang: email address?07:23
ogra_ltspelmo, ?07:23
elmoogra_ltsp: ^-- see mdz's comment?  shuold I file a bug?07:23
sivangelmo: sivan AT piware DOT de07:23
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mjg59elmo: Hm. On PPC?07:23
mjg59mdz: I'm afraid I'm not sure what's going on there07:24
elmomjg59: no, i386, my powerbook is dead07:24
elmomjg59: HP Pavilion zt300007:24
ogra_ltspelmo, i have the lockscreen patch waiting on my disk... its blocked by a prerequisite mdz had for it i'm just figuring out07:24
mjg59elmo: What failure?07:24
elmomjg59: i.e. the office cast off07:24
oceandeadjust wondering - will breezy have built in support for rtl8180 07:24
elmomjg59: just doesn't suspend07:24
mjg59elmo: Have you edited /etc/default/acpi-support ?07:24
ogra_ltspelmo, no need ofr a bug... it would be a duplicate anyway :)07:24
elmoogra_ltsp: ok, as long as it doesn't get forgotten ;)07:24
elmomjg59: no - should I have?07:24
mjg59elmo: Yes07:24
mdzogra_ltsp: I think I asked you to upload the LTSP change at the same time07:25
mdzmjg59: the strange thing is that I only see one VT switch, not two07:25
ogra_ltspmdz, you asked me to upload a ltsp change ? 07:25
ogra_ltspmdz, ah, sorry, slow today07:25
mdzogra_ltsp: for xscreensaver, yes07:25
ogra_ltspmdz, exactly... but thats not ready 07:26
mdzogra_ltsp: is it not trivial?  if (getenv("LTSP_CLIENT")) { force blanking mode }07:26
ogra_ltspso the lockscreen is waiting... i think i got it done tomorrow... its scheduled for my nightshift today :)07:26
elmomjg59: to enable SLEEP?  if so, after an /etc/init.d/acpid reload, still no love07:26
ogra_ltspthe "force blanking mode" isnt :)07:27
mjg59elmo: It shouldn't need a reload. What happens when you press the slepe key?07:27
ogra_ltspi know how to do get a environment var :)07:27
mjg59If the answer is "absolutely nothing", can you try sudo /etc/acpi/sleep.sh ?07:27
elmo                                ~.07:28
elmoheh, woops :)07:29
elmomjg59: hotkey does nothing07:29
mjg59elmo: Ok07:29
elmomjg59: running the script by hand worked07:29
mjg59elmo: Are you on very latest breezy?07:29
elmomjg59: updated like 30 mins ago07:29
mjg59elmo: Oh, I know. You'll need to restart gdm.07:29
elmoshouldn't it suspend on laptop lid close, or am I AWTY-ing?07:30
mjg59elmo: Give me half an hour?07:30
elmoheh, sure, no problem sorry07:30
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mjg59Argh, my acpi-support upload has stalled.07:32
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DizietWahey!  A working-ish gs on ppc!07:32
mjg59Let's try that again07:32
mjg59There we go07:32
DizietI did have to do this:07:32
Diziet#define setjmp(x)      (gsfix_orig_setjmp(find_jmp_buf((x))))07:32
Dizietet al.07:32
jbaileyDiziet: Eww...07:33
DizietIt works, though.  gs never memcpy's a jmp_buf, so you can make a set of macros that work just like normal setjmp etc. but whose jmp_buf is (a) bigger but (b) has alignment 1.07:34
mjg59elmo: Ok. Once they've got through the buildds, grab acpid, acpi-support, powermanagement-interface and gnome-power-manager07:34
elmomjg59: ok, cool, will do07:35
elmossh is exiting with exit code of 1 for me since I upgraded; anyone else seeing that?07:35
elmoseems only to be when using the nc proxycommand trick tho07:35
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mjg59ogra_ltsp: Ok, g-p-m seems to be working sensibly now07:36
mjg59Though the sleep button stuff isn't terribly useful right now07:37
mjg59lid, power and hibernate look good07:37
spaynewell done - the latest udev sorted out the mounting problems07:37
spaynenow i can use the CD drive :-)07:37
sivangelmo: thanks :)07:38
sivangelmo: she just mailed me, I feel so special :-)07:38
jbaileyspayne: Thanks.07:38
jbaileySeems to be fixed for some cases, just not all.07:38
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spaynejbailey: but not ndiswrapper :-) 07:38
ogra_ltspmjg59, wow, cool07:38
spaynejbailey: i'm on #ndiswrapper to see if they can tell me what the error message means07:38
mjg59ogra_ltsp: You should have a play later on07:38
mjg59ogra_ltsp: (needs a pile of stuff I uploaded just now)07:39
ogra_ltspmjg59, i will...07:39
=== mjg59 goes to get a shower before heading out
ogra_ltsphmm, seems daniels changed the handling of discover for dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, that seems to make my card recognized wrong... but i dont get why it thinks it is vmware07:40
ogra_ltsps/recognized/being recognized07:41
elmomjg59: I've got lots of ACPI error spam in my dmesg; do you care?07:41
mjg59elmo: What sort?07:42
mjg59elmo: If it's about owner_ids, it'll be fixed in the next upload07:42
dokoRiddell: in the latest OOo2 upload, there's a patch, which allows using addresses for i.e. form letters, which are taken from kaddressbook. I didn't check, if that actually works. Maybe you care ... ;)07:43
lamont-away dholbach full rebuild requires that the test-archive be flushed and it's wanna-build db repopulated... both of those are archive-management tasks...07:43
lamont-awayand a full rebuild was just done last week, iirc07:43
elmooh, and yay07:48
elmoI can't cleanly shutdown after suspend/resume07:48
dholbachlamont-away: oh... i see, thanks for that - are the buildlogs in /Test/ as usual?07:49
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elmo[4294932.334000]      ACPI-0423: *** Error: Handler for [EmbeddedControl]  returned AE_TIME07:49
elmo[4294932.334000]      ACPI-0509: *** Error: Method execution failed [\_SB_.C046.C059.C0EA.C132]  (Node cffb73a0), AE_TIME07:49
elmomjg59: that kind of thing07:50
dholbachlamont-away: thanks, i will generate a todo list from that data07:50
ivoksthat reminds me... sometimes after resume, some keys on keyboard don't work...07:54
ivoksand that's when i use hr or hr_US layout07:55
Riddelldoko: cool, I'll give it a try07:57
mjg59elmo: Hrm. that's interesting07:58
elmomjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/kern.log has more07:59
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fabbioneelmo: can we sync tailor from Debian -> universe? it looks an interesting piece of python code...08:01
elmofabbione: done08:02
fabbioneelmo: thanks08:05
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slomomdz: did you read my mail regarding ffmpeg?08:18
mdzslomo: yes08:20
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ogragrmpf... why doesnt pcmcia-cs notify me anymore before it shuts down my network on upgrade...08:27
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Treenaksogra: use cardbus! :P08:33
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ograTreenaks, pcmcia-cs used to ask before it shuts down the interfaces...08:47
Treenaksogra: true..08:48
Treenaksogra: but still, it's ancient :)08:48
ograits what the default install choose here... i didnt touch it08:48
Treenaksno I mean hardware-wise08:55
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mdzdoes anyone know a convenient shell idiom for capturing the exit status of the first command in a pipeline?09:02
KamionI don't know any *convenient* ones; would you like an inconvenient one instead? :)09:04
KamionCODE="$(((foo; echo $? >&3) | bar) 3>&1)"09:05
Kamionat least IIRC09:05
Kamionmight need a few >/dev/null redirects and such09:06
mdzKamion: I ended up moving the branch into a subshell09:06
mdzin this case I was lucky and it didn't matter that the conditional logic was executed in a subshell09:08
mdzbah, I just clobbered my /tmp testing mountall.sh09:10
mdzobviously "mountall" is a secret code for "mount the remaining filesystems AND THEN DELETE LOTS OF STUFF"09:10
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mdzjbailey: did you and mjg59 work out a way to get usplash activated upon install?09:23
mdzjbailey: that's necessary for preview09:23
Kamionmdz: I saw the mail about that; what's wrong with just sticking it in the minimal seed?09:24
jbaileymdz: No, I was chatting with Fabio about it a bit ago, though.09:24
jbaileyTo see if there was any reasonable way of doing it that way.09:25
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jbaileymdz: It's not ideal, since it involves the kernel packaging at times other than reinstall, but it's hard to come up with a better solution.09:28
Kamionanyone here speak Chinese?09:28
fabbioneKamion: when i am drunk enough :P09:29
Mitariohmm, the elipses are wrong in liblaunchpad09:30
Kamionwondering if that looks kinda right (from the point of view of line-wrapping, etc.)09:31
mdzKamion: usplash in the minimal seed seems a bit evil, don't you think?09:31
KamionI suppose09:32
Kamionfailing that it's easy to have a bit of code to apt-install it with a debconf question to let certain CD builds turn it back off, though09:32
mdzminimal isn't terribly minimal at the moment, but usplash seems out of place there09:32
Kamionthough I don't know offhand where it might go; could just hack it into base-installer I guess09:33
mdzI'm not sure whether it's more or less evil than having usplash regenerate the initrd on install09:33
sedakfabbione, do you have some time to check if a module package is fine ?09:34
fabbionesedak: not today.. it's sort of late evening and i am going offline soon09:35
sedakthen another day :-)09:35
fabbionesedak: remind me in a day or two...09:35
sedakok, no problem, i'll do that ^^09:36
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ograhrm, now X thinks i have a cirrus_laguna card :/09:42
HiddenWolfogra, get a screwdriver, and check, perhaps you'll be suprized. :)09:43
ograHiddenWolf, i know that my laptop has a nvidia card ;)09:43
ograxorg autodetection stopped working for me with -54 it seems... 09:44
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ograthe weird stuff is, that the card gets detectd as vmware if i run the laptop as ltsp client, but as cirrus_laguna if i run dpkg-recionfigure locally...09:45
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wasabiIs X going to be modularized into actually different development modules? So a single X change doesn't result in 60 packages being downloaded. ;)09:50
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ograwasabi, hasnt that already happened ? 09:50
HiddenWolfogra, to an extent. :)09:51
diemandoes breezy have ahci support?09:51
eruinHow can I get involved in laptoptesting?09:55
eruinI've got a few spanking new laptops around here I'd like to contribute with09:55
HiddenWolferuin, check on wiki.u.c/LaptopTestingTeam or the like of it.09:56
HiddenWolfnp. :)09:57
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eruinwikis really scare me09:59
HiddenWolferuin, they're addictive. :)10:00
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eruinheh, the lads at ECS say battery life of my current laptop is more than 3hrs10:02
HiddenWolferuin, sure, if you leave it on the desktop, and only look at it. :)10:03
eruinbtw, did the network-manager discussion in here earlier today lead to any conclusions affecting breezy?10:03
eruinHiddenWolf, thats when I get 2 1/2 tops10:03
HiddenWolferuin, but you've used it, they're using a brand new battery. :)10:04
Burgundaviaeruin, what was the gist of the discussing?10:04
dholbacheruin: the package in debian built and works for me (not that i did a hardcore stress test)10:04
dholbacheruin: the package on REVU10:04
dholbacheruin: sorry10:04
eruinwell, J^ has made some great packages at http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ (using these myself atm) and wanted to get them in to replace the broken stuff in universe10:05
eruinbut the guy responsible for getting it into breezy+1 main atleast initially didn't like the idea10:05
Burgundaviaeruin, dholbach who was that? mdz?10:06
zanagai would be really happy if just bug #13070 was fixed.. 10:06
zanagathat would mean that we had an actual working network-manager10:07
eruinmainly because the packages he's working on don't use bind9 afaik, and he's afraid users having used the universe packages would face upgrade hell (or that he'd have to spend days to avoid that)10:07
ograeruin, nope, i didnt like the idea, when i was asked to approve the universe package10:07
mdzeruin: that would have been Diziet10:07
eruinDiziet is the main lad10:07
ograeruin, since main and universe devs didnt even know about each other10:07
eruinthat's an interesting situation indeed10:08
mdzeruin: however, further discussion has moved back toward using bind9, but splitting up the bind9 package to avoid the current problems10:08
mdzeruin: not much will be done with it until after breezy10:08
ograeruin, so i opposed to approve an upload before there wasnt some communication going on...10:08
eruinthanks for clearing this up - I lost my buffer...10:09
j^ogra to not further repeat this myth, i was in mail contact with ian before10:12
j^also with thom and adam10:13
ograj^, you told me you didnt commiunicate with the amin devs and had n-m ready since warty10:13
j^ogra i said he was not responsive and not intested in nm before b+110:15
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eruineek, keyboard stopped responding when testing volume hotkeys10:21
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Lathiateruin: haha10:27
eruinvolume down set the volume to 0 with that fancy gnome graphic on-screen, volume up set the volume to max (eek) and then the keyboard was dead ;-)10:28
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sabdflso guys, would today be a fun day to go hoary -> breezy on my laptop?11:12
sabdflor would the fun be all twisted?11:12
eruinit'd be fun11:12
dholbachsabdfl: you'd get USPLASH! :)11:12
eruinthough a fresh daily install would probably be more fun11:12
eruindoes anyone in here know how to properly test suspend/hibernate/sleep features?11:12
eruinI'm completely at loss11:13
sladeneruin: System->Logout->Hibernate.  Wait.  Press power-switch.  Wait.  Does it look the same as 3minutes earlier ;-)11:13
Burgundaviasabdfl, do you have one of the machines that the TestingTeam has?11:14
eruinsladen, well, my screen goes blankand things get quiet11:14
eruinbut then xscreensaver seems to kick in before things really die11:14
eruinI know I saw my hibernation led glow a week or so back11:15
Burgundaviaeruin, hibernate takes a second and the screen blanks right away11:15
sladeneruin: ah, okay.  You probably need to pop along to #ubuntu-laptop with details of your machine11:15
ivokseruin: same thing on my lap too11:15
sabdflBurgundavia: X4011:15
sabdflso, yes, probably11:15
eruinsladen, they don't seem very talkative in there today. I'll try again tomorrow ;)11:16
Burgundaviasabdfl, don't see an X40 on this list11:16
sladenivoks: not coming out of hibernate?  Or never going to hibernate.  (Hibernate == machine fully switched off)11:16
ivoksnot going to11:16
ivokseverything stops, but then wakes up before it ends11:16
eruinyeh, same story here11:16
sladenBurgundavia: mjg59 has an X40 so things should just work11:17
Burgundaviasladen, right11:17
Burgundaviasabdfl, in general, it seems safe to jump right now11:17
sabdflmdz: any comments on the migrate-to-breezy-today plan?11:17
ivoksanother thing is broken nvidia driver, but we can't do much here... and that's too bad11:17
mdzsabdfl: migrate what/whom to breezy today?11:17
mdzsabdfl: oh, you11:18
mdzsabdfl: do it11:18
mdzsabdfl: have you seen usplash yet? ;-)11:18
dholbachsabdfl: i have it on an x40 too - i upgraded my brothers computer (a k7) yesterday and they both run nicely11:18
elmosabdfl: I upgraded this throw-away laptop today, it was relatively painless11:18
sabdflok. DOIT11:19
Nafallosabdfl: w8 till after the meeting ;-)11:19
sabdflNafallo: oh ye of little faith11:19
Robot101mjg59: did you fix the bluetooth? :)11:19
eruinis usplash supposed to drop off long before gdm comes up?11:19
Burgundaviaeruin, known bug11:20
_derek__my X hasn't booted in 2 months :)11:21
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shackantalking about hibernate, in the last days, after hibernating it reboots rather than power off11:26
mdz_derek__: which bug#?11:26
_derek__mdz: 1412011:26
_derek__i just filed it this w/e11:26
_derek__its not a big deal11:26
_derek__i have other boxes that aren't using gdm11:27
mdz_derek__: not being able to login for 2 months sounds like a big deal...11:27
mdzin that bug, it looks like X is starting fine11:27
mdzand that the problem is with GNOME11:27
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_derek__mdz: hehe, well if it were my only computer it would be a problem, but i am using my other for the time being (till it gets ironed out)11:27
_derek__mdz: yeah, it is with gdm/gnome (not sure which)11:28
mdz_derek__: make sure the loopback interface (lo) is configured properly11:28
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mdzit looks like you're running netapplet or something? you could try removing all the non-main packages you have installed11:28
mdzGNOME is working for others11:28
_derek__mdz: hmm, i am not home now, but when i get home i will, lemme see if my router will let me ssh in11:28
_derek__mdz: how do i know if my lo is configed properly?11:29
lifelesswho is 'xavier poinsard' ?11:30
mdz_derek__: "ifconfig"11:31
ogralifeless, you go for MOTU i heard ? 11:31
sladenshackan: there's various issues to do with power-off;  the method was power-off method was changed11:32
lifelessogra: working through the process.11:32
_derek__mdz: my router isn't letting me to ssh to it, but if i have an lo on there, then it is all setup?11:33
mdz_derek__: no, it needs to have IP address, be set to "up", etc.11:34
ogralifeless, so you just miss the first meeting that you need for approval11:34
_derek__mdz: ok, when I go home I will try that, then I will try removing all non-main packages (thats going to be fun :) )11:34
lifelessogra: I know, I'm not rushing through.11:34
ograah, ok :)11:34
sladenKamion: can d-i be made to worry if you don't have a swap device ...hibernate don't work otherwise11:34
lifelessogra: I didn't have up the wiki page describing my exploits yet, for instance.11:34
_derek__does anyone here know "Sean D. Quinn", the other person who had the same problem, him and I can discuss it (if he uses irc)11:35
ograah, ok11:35
_derek__mdz: also, is there a gnome log for when it starts up?11:35
Burgundavia_derek__, he does. He sometimes hanges out in -doc, afaicr11:36
mdz_derek__: ~/.xsession-errors; I think you already sent it in11:36
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_derek__Burgundavia: whats his nick?11:36
Burgundavia_derek__, he just joined11:36
_derek__squinn: can I pm you?11:37
_derek__mdz: thanks for your help, i will let you know what i find11:37
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Kamionsladen: just needs a partman-basicfilesystems sync; it's on my to-do list11:38
Kamionneed to give it a quick test first11:38
_derek__squinn: you have a pm11:39
slomocan someone tell me why mplayer failed on the buildds and works in pbuilder? it seems the buildds don't get the build-depends right...11:40
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ivoksslomo: even LP doesn't like my GPG :))11:42
slomoivoks: lol... but i had your problems too... i tried until it worked ;)11:43
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Nafalloslomo: thank me for that ;-)11:45
Nafalloslomo: you have an  in your name, the bug and trying came from me ;-)11:45
slomoNafallo: ?11:46
slomoNafallo: ah... because of launchpad ;)11:46
Nafalloslomo: yea :-)11:46
sladenKamion: okay, thanks11:47
CarlFKI pluged in a Logitec web cam, ran $ lsusb: it didnt report anything or return me to a prompt - is this a bug?11:47
sladenCarlFK: if the webcam is known to work, yes it is a bug11:48
CarlFKsladen - I was trying to see if it was on the list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsMultimediaWebCameras11:49
CarlFKso I can't tell if it is known or not11:49
CarlFKbut I am sruprised that lsusb would "hang"11:49
CarlFKunpluging it didn't seem to help.  11:50
dholbachneed to go... have a nice evening11:51
sladenCarlFK: is it spca5xx ?  I have feeling the driver maybe buggy;  it hung the machine when I yanked out a webcam using that module11:51
CarlFKbox says "quick cam chat"11:52
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CarlFKI don't see any model #11:52
sladenCarlFK: google for the FCC ID11:52
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CarlFKwhere do I fidn the fcc id?11:55
CarlFKfound the fcc compliance statement....11:56
CarlFKthat is the device12:00

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