[12:02] <hughsie> mjg59: sorry, off the phone now
[12:03] <mjg59> hughsie: No problem
[12:03] <mjg59> hughsie: I have an irritating feeling that hald-acpi-addon is just not being installed into the package
[12:04] <hughsie> mjg59: maybe. Mine isn;t being run too, and that's with CVS
[12:05] <mjg59> Well, the Debian hal binary package doesn't have it in
[12:05] <mjg59> Whereas it's certainly built
[12:05] <infinity> sivang : Add "-s main"... It's looking for debian-style components (non-free, contrib) otherwise.
[12:06] <mjg59> Oh, no, I'm being stupid - it's built and installed
[12:06] <mjg59> I just can't spell "addon"
[12:06] <hughsie> mjg59: heh
[12:08] <mjg59> hughsie: Ok, so hal bug
[12:08] <hughsie> mjg59: yeh, just chasing
[12:09] <hughsie> mjg59: it runs, but exits. not cool.
[12:12] <mdz> mjg59: toshset is root-only, right?  no setuid madness or anything?
[12:13] <mjg59> mdz: It just needs write access to the device node, so yeah
[12:15] <mjg59> Usplash suddenly looks sexy
[12:21] <mdz> mjg59: I'm not sure why the module-init-tools message is broken
[12:22] <mjg59> mdz: Which one?
[12:22] <mdz> mjg59: I get "Loading modules..." in green hanging off the right side of the text box
[12:22] <mjg59> Oh, right
[12:22] <mjg59> Because it's too long, and stuff over there never gets blanked
[12:22] <mjg59> Possibly there should be some magic linebreaking support
[12:23] <mdz> mjg59: no, I also see "TEXT" flash by
[12:23] <mjg59> mdz: Ah - which version of usplash?
[12:23] <mdz> mjg59: 0.1-4
[12:23] <mjg59> mdz: Fixed that today
[12:23] <mdz>             usplash_write "TEXT $@" || true
[12:23] <mdz> ah
[12:24] <mjg59> It was happening when multiple writes went by before usplash was scheduled
[12:24] <mdz> oh, good, X doesn't start on my laptop anymore
[12:25] <mjg59> Grab the new one and watch the enhanced prettiness
[12:25] <mdz> doing it
[12:27] <mdz> SEXY
[12:27] <mjg59> Oh yes
[12:27] <mdz> I get a colored band on the left side of the screen; is that intentional?
[12:27] <mjg59> Uhm. Mm?
[12:27] <mjg59> No, that shouldn't be happening
[12:27] <mdz> it's about the color of the "ubuntu" text
[12:28] <mdz> light brown
[12:28] <mjg59> Weird
[12:28] <mjg59> Uhm
[12:28] <mdz> I don't think it was happening, before, but it would ahve been hard to tell with the old background
[12:28] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:28] <mjg59> Let me take a look here
[12:29] <mjg59> No, I don't get that here
[12:30] <mjg59> I'll add linebreak support to deal with the longer lines
[12:31] <mdz> mjg59: would a photo help?
[12:31] <mjg59> mdz: Sure, why not?
[12:31] <mdz> oh, hmm, I think I see what it is
[12:31] <mdz> I think it's a monitor adjustment problem
[12:32] <mjg59> Then we just need it to be started earlier in initramfs
[12:32] <mdz> we should definitely do that
[12:32] <mdz> and modify initramfs to kill it if it drops to a shell
[12:32] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:33] <mdz> maybe jbailey can add a hook for that
[12:33] <mdz> ok, after readjusting my monitor it looks sweet again
[12:33] <mjg59> Just add it to the panic code
[12:33] <mjg59> Is Mark still at akadamy?
[12:34] <mdz> dunno
[12:35] <mjg59> He seems to be missing out on the sexiness
[12:35] <mdz> what are we going to do about usplash artwork for kubuntu?
[12:35] <mdz> we should probably move the artwork out into ubuntu-artwork
[12:35] <mjg59> Hrm. Good question.
[12:35] <mjg59> jdub: We can still use another couple of colours in the artwork, if that'd help
[12:35] <mdz> mjg59: can we get anti-aliased fonts?
[12:35] <mjg59> mdz: Nngh.
[12:36] <mjg59> mdz: Not easily. We can probably get a more attractive one, though
[12:36] <mjg59> We can use any bdf font
[12:36] <mjg59> Anti-aliasing would require someone to write support for it in bogl
[12:37] <mjg59> (ie, not me)
[12:38] <jbailey> mdz, mjg59: Dropping to a shell is already handled by a 'panic' function.
[12:39] <jbailey> So that part is easy.
[12:39] <jbailey> mjg59: Did you get usplash working in the init-top hook on that 0.25 I posted?
[12:39] <mdz> mjg59: could we choose a font with anti-aliasing built into it?  are the fonts grayscale?
[12:39] <mjg59> jbailey: Nope. Not sure what's up there.
[12:39] <mjg59> mdz: They're bitmap fonts
[12:39] <mjg59> I'm not sure if they're greyscale or not
[12:39] <mdz> mjg59: bitmap fonts can have anti-aliasing if they're grayscale
[12:40] <jbailey> mjg59: That's before any modules have been loaded at all.
[12:40] <mdz> we need to make hotplug faster
[12:43] <HiddenWolf> mdz s/hotplug/ubuntu
[12:43] <mdz> mjg59: the "ok" isn't green anymore
[12:43] <mdz> HiddenWolf: no, actually I meant what I wrote
[12:55] <mdz> mjg59: also, ARGH TOSHSET BAD
[12:55] <mdz> mjg59: it displays some blaring warning about how it's useless on ACPI-enabled kernels
[12:55] <mdz> mjg59: which is sort of unfriendly considering that our default kernels are ACPI-enabled
[12:55] <HiddenWolf> mdz, lol, I was just about to mention that.
[12:56] <mjg59> mdThe green is removed, yeah. Jeff wasn't keen on it - it makes things visually noisier for no especially good reason
[12:56] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, crap. I'll hack that out.
[12:56] <mjg59> It's entirely wrong.
[12:59] <mjg59> mdz: BDF appears to be b&w
[01:07] <mdz> mjg59: is there a baz repository for acpi-support, or is the source tarball it?
[01:07] <mjg59> mdz: http://people.debian.org/~mjg59/acpi-support
[01:07] <mjg59> It's bzr rather than baz
[01:08] <mdz> mjg59: ok, I'll send you merge requests rather than uploading it in the future
[01:08] <mjg59> mdz: No problem
[01:09] <mjg59> mdz: There's a usplash one there as well
[01:10] <mdz> mjg59: I just uploading acpi-support to fix its log_begin_msg
[01:10] <mdz> s/ing/ed/
[01:10] <mjg59> mdz: Cool, thanks
[01:10] <mjg59> mdz: Could you possibly send me a diff?
[01:11] <mdz> mjg59: done
[01:11] <mdz> it's a one-liner
[01:11] <mjg59> mdz: Ta
[01:11] <CarlFK_> should a user be able to connect/disconnect a dialup ISP connection?  (sorry if this was answered, my connection is bouncing)
[01:11] <mjg59> CarlFK_: Using gnome-modem-applet, yeah
[01:11] <mjg59> Though it requires them to have sudo
[01:12] <CarlFK_> mjg59 - ok - I was thinking the sudo thing was bug
[01:13] <sebest_> is the icon next to update-notified notification a bulb?
[01:15] <mjg59> sebest_: Yeah. It's to tell you that you have a message related to an update.
[01:15] <sebest_> mjg59, thanx, but i mean the notification from notify-daemon
[01:16] <CarlFK_> mjg59 - do you know of any "official" like docs besides: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialUpSupport ?
[01:16] <mjg59> CarlFK_: Nope
[01:16] <sebest_> because i'm using the dbus api of notify-daemon on breezy and i can't set another icons other than the default bulb, so i wanted to know if update-notifier was able to do this
[01:16] <CarlFK_> I am having trouble beliving noone is bothered by needing sudo to make a dialup connection
[01:17] <mjg59> Oh, right, I see what you mean
[01:17] <mjg59> No idea
[01:17] <mjg59> CarlFK_: Either it needs sudo, or it means that any user can override the default routing
[01:17] <infinity> CarlFK : Is it required even if you're in the dip group?
[01:18] <mjg59> infinity: Yes
[01:18] <infinity> Err, dialout.
[01:18] <carstenh> CarlFK_: never used dialup with ubuntu, but in debian you have to be in the group dip to be allowed to start a dialup connection as ordinary user
[01:18] <mjg59> infinity: It launches pppd directly, rather than using pon or poff
[01:18] <infinity> mjg59 : Oh, yes, that would requite root.
[01:19] <infinity> require, too.
[01:25] <infinity> Oh, for the love of...
[01:25] <CarlFK_> system, users and groups, user privs: "user can connect to the net using a modem" - shouldn't that remove the sudo requirement?
[01:25] <infinity> mjg59 : Why are we promoting things to main that are unbuildable? (toshset)
[01:26] <infinity> mjg59 : Doesn't build with g++4.0, the binary in the archive is still the one from hoary compiled with g++-3.3
[01:26] <mjg59> infinity: Because it provides necessary functionality
[01:26] <infinity> mjg59 : Could we fix it to build? :)
[01:26] <infinity> mjg59 : It's unsupportable ATM, since it doesn't build with build-essential.
[01:26] <mjg59> CarlFK_: The mechanism used for connecting to the net via dialup requires root
[01:27] <mjg59> There's a good argument for providing a suid wrapper that's only executable by a subset of users
[01:27] <mjg59> But someone would need to implement that
[01:27] <infinity> mjg59 : Ahh, there's a patch in the Debian BTS to make it build.
[01:27] <mjg59> infinity: Excellent
[01:27] <whiprush> infinity: kudos dude, you're a machine.
[01:27] <infinity> mjg59 : I'll upload a fix and stop bugging you.
[01:28] <mjg59> infinity: Thanks! :)
[01:28] <infinity> Actually, I'll cheat and fake a sync of 1.69-2
[01:28] <infinity> No one look.
[01:28] <mjg59> Haha
[01:28] <CarlFK_> mjg59 - so what does that "user priv: can connect..." option govern?
[01:28] <mjg59> CarlFK_: Sorry, I dropped off. Which bit are you referring to?
[01:29] <CarlFK_> system, users and groups, user privs: "user can connect to the net using a modem" - shouldn't that remove the sudo requirement?
[01:29] <CarlFK_> it is a checkbox in the user admin gui
[01:29] <mjg59> That refers to the pon/poff mechanism, not the one used by gnome-modem-applet
[01:29] <CarlFK_> ah, so if that is checked, they can use pon from a prompt? 
[01:30] <mjg59> They ought to be able to
[01:33] <infinity> On second though, we should just sync 1.70-1
[01:33] <infinity> mdz : Still around?
[01:33] <ajmitch> yay, more x breakage, using ls in /var/lib/dpkg/info sometimes isn't good
[01:34] <infinity> whiprush : Which machinery are you referring to?... The cairo/glitz stuff?
[01:35] <whiprush> infinity: yeah, you've been rebuilding stuff for what ... 7+ some days now?
[01:35] <whiprush> including the weekends.
[01:36] <infinity> whiprush : The only packages left to transition are oregano (needs to be updated for the new cairo API), fdclock (same), network-manager (out of sync with DBUS APIs), and gcc-snapshot (waiting on doko to roll a new CVS snap)... Everything else is fixed now.
[01:36] <ajmitch> infinity: great, you're making the MOTUs redundant :)
[01:36] <whiprush> I was just noting your inhuman stamina.
[01:37] <infinity> ajmitch : No, you guys getr to hunt down every FTBFS I leave in my dust.  Thpt. :)
[01:37] <infinity> ajmitch : oregano being a fine example.  I have no urge to fix it. :)
[01:37] <ajmitch> infinity: that's the fun part
[01:37] <ajmitch> it's on my fixit list
[01:38] <infinity> ajmitch : Don't worry about fdclock, daniels will update it from freedesktop CVS.
[01:38] <infinity> ajmitch : cworth has already committed the required fixes.
[01:38] <slomo> infinity: i already have... i only need someone to upload ;)
[01:39] <ajmitch> oregano will probably be a new upstream version to fix it
[01:39] <infinity> slomo : Oh, you already pulled cworth's fixes?
[01:39] <slomo> infinity: sure
[01:39] <ajmitch> assuming I'm allowed 
[01:39] <infinity> slono : Cool.  Then find someone to upload for you.  I don't think daniels is overly protective of his clock. :)
[01:40] <slomo> infinity: ok, i'll try :) but when you want to take a look: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=509
[01:44] <infinity> mjg59 : You should probbaly just request a sync of toshset 1.70-1 from Debian.  The only thing in the diff is the gcc-4.0 fixes, a manpage typo correction, and an added ID for another Toshiba laptop.
[01:44] <infinity> mjg59 : I can't see anyone disallowing a UVF exception on that.
[01:45] <mjg59> infinity: Ok
[01:55] <mdz> infinity: yes
[01:56] <infinity> mdz : See above.  Permission to break UVF for toshset for gcc-4.0 fixes, a manpage correction, and one added device ID?
[01:56] <infinity> mdz : That's the entirety of the diff.
[01:58] <mdz> infinity: yes
[01:59] <infinity> mdz : Danke.
[01:59] <infinity> elmo : Please sync toshset 1.70-1 from Debian, permission granted by mdz for UVF exception.
[02:05] <mdz> infinity: have you foregone your native timezone entirely?
[02:05] <infinity> No, I'm still awake. :)
[02:05] <infinity> The nap option is sounding good, but I may force myself to stay up.
[02:06] <infinity> I got a cold over the weekend, and was up all night coughing.
[02:06] <infinity> Figure I may as well work, since I couldn't sleep.
[02:06] <mdz> mjg59: still around?
[02:11] <mdz> elmo: my word, cron.daily is a lot faster now
[02:13] <mjg59> mdz: Hi
[02:15] <mdz> mjg59: wanted to talk about usplash and casper
[02:16] <mdz> mjg59: can't remember if you answered this already or not
[02:16] <mdz> do I need to mess with any kernel modules, or can i just start usplash with the framebuffer set up by d-i?
[02:18] <mjg59> Assuming that d-i on the livecd loads vga16, that'll be fine
[02:19] <mdz> it does
[02:19] <mdz> I'm not sure it loads the other stuff that the initramfs usplash script does, though
[02:20] <mjg59> If it modprobes it, it'll be fine
[02:20] <mjg59> It insmods stuff by hand due to issues with modprobe at that point of initramfs
[02:20] <mjg59> (haven't tracked that down yet)
[02:22] <mdz> infinity: so long as you've given up on sleep, can you tell me why pppconfig didn't build?
[02:22] <mdz> mjg59: ah, splendid
[02:23] <jbailey> mjg59: I think most of the need for that  is probably gone now.  There've been a few bugs fixed where it was spuriously adding .ko, or where it was losing modules on the way.
[02:24] <infinity> mdz : Uhh, cause it's not in wanna-build?
[02:24] <infinity> mdz : Which usually means it's arch:all (probably is), and is currently installed.
[02:24] <mdz> infinity: interesting; it's been a cron.daily since I uploaded it, and it's in Sources
[02:24] <mdz> 2.3.11ubuntu2
[02:25] <mdz> mjg59: so the only sticking point in usplash-for-casper is that udev will mount over /dev
[02:25] <_derek> mdz: thanks for the comment/reassigning of bug 14120
[02:26] <mdz> I suppose I could do what initramfs does, and move the mount over
[02:26] <mdz> but that's more intrusive than I'd like
[02:26] <mjg59> mdz: Hmm
[02:27] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm.
[02:27] <mdz> I could invoke /etc/init.d/udev early, I guess
[02:27] <mjg59> There's not really a good way around that
[02:27] <mjg59> Basically, we need a fifo that'll be there from the point usplash is started until you finish writing to it
[02:27] <infinity> mdz : Hrm.  I don't see it in any logs on the i386 buildds... And it's not reigstered in w-b... Either it's waiting on another cron.daily to right itself, or something's very confused.
[02:27] <mdz> I think running /etc/init.d/udev start before usplash would be ok
[02:28] <mdz> infinity: we'll find out in a few minutes, then
[02:28] <mdz> much usplash love landed in the last cron.daily
[02:28] <infinity> Indeed.  How fast is daily now?
[02:28] <mdz> infinity: it was finished at :11
[02:28] <infinity> Not bad.
[02:28] <mdz> s/at/before/
[02:29] <mdz> I'm not really sure; I just loaded up my "wait-for-cron.daily" finger macros and discovered it wasn't running
[02:29] <infinity> That's a sign that we need to run it every 15 minutes instead.
[02:32] <mdz> I don't think elmo has fully recovered from the 24h->30m transition yet
[02:43] <infinity> Hrm.
[02:44] <infinity> mdz : I wonder if the jackass switchover may have goofed something with the hack used for arch:all building.
[02:44] <infinity> mdz : Still not listed in wanna-build.  I'll kick it manually, but remind me to poke elmo about it.
[02:47] <infinity> mdz : Uploaded.
[02:47] <jdub> mjg59: yeah, have two spare on that image
[02:47] <mdz> infinity: thanks, remember to poke elmo about it
[02:47] <jdub> mjg59: but it looks terrible when i use it with usplash
[02:47] <infinity> :)
[02:50] <jdub> jbailey: ahr?
[02:50] <jbailey> jdub: Are you a pirate now? 
[02:50] <jdub> i am a pirate MAN
[02:50] <bddebian> heh
[02:50] <jdub> actually, i lie
[02:51] <jdub> i am a pirate ANDROID
[02:51] <jbailey> He is a pirate, horror!
[02:51] <jdub> i am not a pirate horror
[02:51] <jdub> though i can put on a horror face
[02:51] <jdub> anyway
[02:51] <jdub> you were in #grub
[02:51] <jbailey> jdub: You'd better on Hallowe'en. =)
[02:51] <bddebian> Uhm
[02:51] <jbailey> jdub: stalker
[02:51] <jdub> that means i'm going to ask you my hard question about grub
[02:51] <zul> yarrgh
[02:52] <jbailey> jdub: Alright.  But I'm best suited to answer questions about grub2 on powerpc. =)
[02:52] <jbailey> jdub: And I occasionally help  the guy who's porting it to Sparc. 
[02:52] <jdub> bum
[02:52] <jdub> well, this is general
[02:52] <jbailey> a'ight
[02:52] <jdub> you know that "i am about to do the following..." spew after the item is selected in grub?
[02:52] <jdub> it clears the screen, says, "Booting Pirate OS..."
[02:52] <jbailey> Yup
[02:53] <jdub> and then blah blah smeg irrelevant blather YELL YELL BIFF THWACK
[02:53] <jbailey> Mhm
[02:53] <jdub> can we get rid of that? :-)
[02:53] <jdub> like, if quiet is in the boot line, never show it?
[02:53] <jbailey> Umm,...  Parsing the kernel command line seems like the wrong way to determine that.
[02:54] <jbailey> How about if the menu wasn't shown or somethign ilke that?
[02:54] <jdub> well, it could be an option for each stanza
[02:54] <jdub> even if the menu was shown, i'd far prefer to see
[02:54] <jdub> grub menu -> pause -> usplash
[02:54] <jdub> instead of
[02:54] <jdub> grub menu ->
[02:54] <jdub> booting your os now ->
[02:54] <jdub> grub process spew ->
[02:55] <jdub> uncompressing your os now ->
[02:55] <jdub> audit 9823749823487 ->
[02:55] <jdub> usplash
[02:55] <jdub> :-)
[02:55] <jbailey> I already asked benc and them about the audit line.
[02:55] <jdub> the other distros that have evil bootsplash-in-kernel
[02:55] <jdub> only show a flash of the yucky output
[02:55] <jdub> but they are evil
[02:56] <mjg59> jdub: Mm?
[02:56] <mjg59> jdub: Have you tried the usplash I uploaded today?
[02:56] <jdub> oh, no
[02:56] <jdub> i tried putting it in myself and it looked like baby spew after fingerpainting class
[02:56] <mjg59> Yeah
[02:56] <mjg59> There was a tiny bit of code hacking needed
[02:56] <jbailey> jdub: So you want basically another command in there "stfu" or something like that to silence everything from the menu name to "booting your kernel" right?
[02:57] <mjg59> apt-get install usplash lsb-base and then regenerate your initrd
[02:57] <jdub> jbailey: that'd be elite
[02:57] <jdub> mjg59: woohoo :-)
[02:57] <jbailey> jdub: If I do this, will I get beaten by the mdz feature freeze stick of doom?
[02:57] <mjg59> jdub: Do it. POP THE TRUNK.
[02:57] <jdub> jbailey: it's totally a bug fix man
[02:57] <whiprush> trunk monkey!
[02:58] <mjg59> We can hack grub to get rid of its output, and we can trivially fix the kernel to get rid of that fucking "initialising audit" crap
[02:58] <jbailey> Mhm.  
[02:58] <jbailey> jdub: Do I get a bug number that I can close so that we keep this fiction going? =)
[02:58] <jdub> i think there is a bug in there somewhere about it, actually
[03:02] <mjg59> jdub: How long until you get to test usplash?
[03:02] <mjg59> I don't want to miss your reaction
[03:02] <jdub> well
[03:03] <jdub> there has been an OOo2 update
[03:03] <jdub> ;-)
[03:03] <mjg59> Oh man
[03:03] <mjg59> And you're in bandwidth hell
[03:03] <jdub> not so much these days
[03:03] <jdub> 1.5MB down
[03:04] <mjg59> Hmm. Better than me at the moment.
[03:04] <mjg59> That was bizarre.
[03:05] <jdub> mjg59: well, that's 1.5MB within the country
[03:05] <mjg59> Haha
[03:06] <jdub> ;-)
[03:06] <mjg59> The TV suddenly said "Just do it, DO IT"
[03:09] <mdz> mjg59: usplashoriffic casper uploaded
[03:09] <infinity> Hrm, casper is arch:all too.
[03:10] <infinity> Guess we get to see if your ppconfig issue was an isolated incident.
[03:10] <mdz> indeed
[03:10] <mdz> at least, those of us who are still awake will
[03:10] <mjg59> mdz: Indescribable rock
[03:10] <mjg59> I need to sort the PPC usplash at some stage
[03:10] <mjg59> There's very little that needs to be done
[03:11] <mjg59> But someone needs to write a bogl_move routine for non-vga16 framebuffers
[03:11] <infinity> I'm still awake, technically.
[03:11] <mdz> infinity: but I hope not for much longer
[03:12] <infinity> I'm somewhere between "I should try to stay up all day, so I don't end up backawards" and "oh god, just let me die right now"
[03:12] <mdz> mjg59: the casper stuff is somewhat academic at this point because we have like a minute of (partly interactive) d-i spew before we can start it up, but it will make silbs happy
[03:12] <infinity> The latter's likely to win at any moment.
[03:12] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[03:12] <infinity> But not until I get casper for you.
[03:12] <mjg59> mdz: There's no way to tie it into d-i?
[03:12] <mdz> mjg59: for breezy+1 I think I am going to ditch d-i for the live CD
[03:12] <mjg59> Ok
[03:12] <mdz> and just have a simple initramfs
[03:12] <jdub> mdz, mjg59: so how easy will it be to brand usplash on the livecd?
[03:12] <jdub> mdz: ooh!
[03:13] <mdz> jdub: same as branding it anywhere else
[03:13] <jdub> mdz: 'cept it's totally pre-cloop pain
[03:13] <mjg59> jdub: Is requiring a package rebuild ok?
[03:13] <jdub> mjg59: that's not so bad
[03:14] <jdub> but it will also mean putting a new initrd on the non-cloop bit
[03:14] <mjg59> Hmm. Yes.
[03:14] <mdz> jdub: all it needs to do is load enough kernel stuff to find the CD-ROM and mount the cloop; casper can do everything else from inside there
[03:14] <jdub> mjg59: this is the bit that will make people scared a bit
[03:15] <mjg59> jdub: If it's going to be started in the initramfs, there's no obvious way around having the picture in the initramfs
[03:15] <jdub> mmm
[03:18] <Lathiat> oh no
[03:18] <Lathiat> the sptial mode discussion has errupted again
[03:18] <HrdwrBoB> spatial mode, home as desktop is winner for me
[03:20] <wasabi> I'd be for home as desktop if home didn't traditionally have other stuff.
[03:21] <jdub> Lathiat: whereabouts?
[03:22] <jdub> oh
[03:24] <jdub> that's just murray
[03:24] <mjg59> jdub: Well, he's got something of a point
[03:24] <mjg59> In three releases, we've shipped three different defaults
[03:24] <mjg59> And only one of them has matched upstream's
[03:25] <Lathiat> the new tree thing brings up a new point
[03:25] <wasabi> Oh geeze. Just as I get used to explaining to all my friends why spatial is better, and start to get some converts.
[03:25] <Lathiat> persoanlly, i like browse mode, but thats just me
[03:25] <wasabi> I just "got used" to spatial.
[03:26] <jdub> mjg59: and this one is the right one, which we should've done last time (modulo browser improvements)
[03:26] <jdub> mjg59: his point about spatial is irrelevant
[03:26] <jdub> and wrong
[03:27] <mjg59> jdub: I think this version is better than Hoary's. I'm pretty sure you argued in favour of spatial for Warty :)
[03:27] <wasabi> It's funny to see everybody run to the other side of the room.
[03:27] <jdub> mjg59: nup
[03:28] <jdub> mjg59: i wasn't fully committed (because browse mode sucked back then), but i did push for browse
[03:28] <infinity> I like whatever mode shuts the most people up, because my file browser is gnome-terminal, cd, and ls.
[03:28] <mjg59> jdub: Ok, fair enough
[03:28] <jdub> mjg59: i've always loved spatial as a feature, but it punches real users in the face
[03:29] <wasabi> Define "real users".
[03:29] <jdub> people who don't like technology for technology's sake, who use the computer to get their job done,  not for the sake of using their computer
[03:29] <mjg59> To be honest, I'm happy with either (I grew up with an OS that used something similar to spatial). The fact that we *keep changing* sucks.
[03:30] <mjg59> If there's a commitment to staying with browser mode in future, then fine
[03:30] <jdub> mjg59: sabdfl welcomes your blame :)
[03:30] <mdz> infinity: if you need to kick casper, make sure you get 1.9 (not 1.8)
[03:30] <Lathiat> haha
[03:30] <mjg59> It's not necessarily the mode I'll use, but I don't think it's a default people would be unhappy with
[03:30] <wasabi> Odd. All "real users" i've given spatial too... those who weren't proficcient in any previous OS, got their work done fine.
[03:30] <mjg59> wasabi: People will get their work done fine in either mode
[03:31] <wasabi> Yeah.
[03:31] <wasabi> I guess.
[03:31] <jdub> "What are all these windows all over my screen?"
[03:31] <jdub> that is why spatial is a cool feature for geeks, but is irrelevant for real users
[03:32] <wasabi> Hey, I still have the opinion I had back when spatial was first introduced. I think it is BETTER for complete novices with no computer experience. Weither that is "real users" or not, i dunno.
[03:32] <HrdwrBoB> my inlaws use spatial
[03:32] <HrdwrBoB> they don't even notice
[03:33] <wasabi> My MOM uses it.
[03:33] <HrdwrBoB> all they said was the computer seems faster since I put ubuntu on it
[03:33] <wasabi> Doesn't even know what the back button in a browser really does, though.
[03:37] <mdz> infinity: cron.daily finished in <4 minutes
[03:37] <mdz> this new box rocks
[03:38] <mdz> infinity: oh, it's a dual opteron with a decent raid card now.  no wonder.
[03:38] <Lathiat> haha
[03:38] <jbailey> Just saw the new usplash.  Purty. =)
[03:39] <Lathiat> ssh dont spoil it :)
[03:43] <jdub> for what it's worth, i replied to the original mail
[03:44] <infinity> mdz : Meh.  Same problem.  Needs a manual shove.  I'll be sure to deliver a WTF to elmo aboiut it when our timezones match again.
[03:44] <tgall_foo> evening jdub 
[03:44] <mdz> infinity: how about sending an email?
[03:44] <mjg59> My AUNT TILLIE thinks that browser mode is worse than paedophiles
[03:46] <infinity> mdz : Well, yes, that works too. :)  Give me a break, I'm dead on my feet. :)
[03:46] <jdub> yo tgall_foo 
[03:46] <mdz> infinity: you need to sleep more
[03:46] <mdz> infinity: we'll need you in top shape for preview week
[03:47] <mdz> ...which is next week
[03:47] <jbailey> infinity: So go exercise.
[03:48] <infinity> mdz : Mailed.
[03:48] <infinity> mdz : casper uploaded, I'm off to nap.
[03:49] <mjg59> Oh christ we're releasing preview next week?
[03:50] <martinald> hi
[03:50] <martinald> is there any movement on bugs 11237 and/or 13521
[03:52] <jbailey> martinald: No.  I don't think there's anythign I can do under 11237 is done.
[03:52] <jbailey> martinald: Well, I'm going to look at hwdetect
[03:52] <jbailey> See if I can force load them, but in general the answer to your question is 'no'
[03:59] <mdz> martinald: generally, when the status of a bug changes, it is updated in bugzilla.  so there's no need to ask about bugs here; just add yourself to the CC list in bugzilla.
[04:02] <lifeless> mdz: so for me to upload stuff to ubuntu .. I've signed the Coc, and am a DD now.
[04:02] <lifeless> mdz: what next ?
[04:02] <mdz> lifeless: apply to become a maintainer
[04:03] <lifeless> ok
[04:03] <mdz> lifeless: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate#code
[04:06] <lifeless> mdz: so, care to suggest a mentor, or do I grab one at random ? 
[04:07] <mdz> lifeless: feel free to ask someone you know; you know enough ubuntu devlopers I expect ;-)
[04:07] <lifeless> ;)
[04:07] <mdz> lifeless: otherwise, #ubuntu-motu
[04:08] <lifeless> I'll ask keybuk
[04:08] <lifeless> what is meant by 'substantial' - its used a lot in the process documentation ...
[04:09] <mdz> depends on context
[04:10] <lifeless> other than being upstream for several packages, and being package maintainer for bicycle-repair, I'm not sure what stuff I can claim as being direct contributions to /Ubuntu/
[04:10] <ajmitch> lifeless: help out the MOTUs, please :)
[04:10] <lifeless> 'becoming a maintainer'
[04:10] <lifeless> ^^ the context
[04:10] <mdz> substantial in the case of contributions to ubuntu means actual, concrete, observable work done on the distribution
[04:11] <mdz> of a significant magnitude
[04:12] <jdub> mdz: he maintains our revision control system? :)
[04:12] <mdz> jdub: the one that isn't used for ubuntu development yet? ;-P
[04:12] <jdub> :-)
[04:12] <jdub> details
[04:12] <lifeless> I guess I'm concerned that I won't be able to deliver that level of work in my spare time - as I definately won't be doing it during work.
[04:12] <jdub> i hear pitti uses it
[04:12] <jdub> ;-)
[04:12] <mdz> pitti uses bzr
[04:12] <mdz> ;-)
[04:12] <lifeless> mdz: which I am full time on ;0
[04:13] <Lathiat> lifeless: ah you moved from baz?
[04:13] <mdz> I'm not trying to be difficult, but we can't offer maintainership to anyone based solely on being upstream for a package in Ubuntu
[04:13] <lifeless> baz is in maintenance mode
[04:13] <Lathiat> i tried bzr out yesterday with ajmitch, and we synced our repos over ipv6 :) woot.
[04:13] <lifeless> mdz: I know. I'm going down this path because you suggested someone in my team should do that so we can upload our own baz/etc packages.
[04:13] <mdz> lifeless: do you maintain the debian/* for baz?
[04:14] <lifeless> mdz: I maintain the master copy for it in baz itself, but bob2 has been the guy tweaking that for debian.
[04:14] <mdz> since we use that verbatim, that'd be qualifying work
[04:14] <jdub> Lathiat: OVER IPV6! THE FUTURE!
[04:14] <lifeless> I maintain bicycle-repair's debian package, which you also use verbatim.
[04:14] <Lathiat> jdub: YES!
[04:14] <Lathiat> so we coudl sync to our laptops on remote networks directly :)
[04:15] <jbailey> Lathiat: Ah, he hadn't said who that was with.
[04:15] <Lathiat> and im advertising my repository over mDNS/DNS-SD nto that its much use to anyone ;p
[04:15] <jdub> mdz: btw, j^ is going the motu route for n-m in universe
[04:15] <Lathiat> jdub: rock
[04:15] <whiprush> oh dudes, 3 laptops today with j^'s packages
[04:15] <whiprush> nothing but nice.
[04:15] <jdub> Lathiat: mpool would be keen to get dns-sd support into bzr :)
[04:15] <jdub> whiprush: UNPLUG!
[04:15] <jdub> *sha-wing!*
[04:16] <jdub> REPLUG!
[04:16] <jdub> *sha-wing!*
[04:16] <whiprush> he's even got the vpnc thing going on
[04:16] <whiprush> unfortunatly I can't test that
[04:16] <Lathiat> yeh if only my unis network worked with vpnc :(
[04:16] <jdub> whiprush: "stargazing: cool stuff in the ubuntu universe" as a pre-breezy article
[04:16] <whiprush> jdub: just tell me what to do.
[04:16] <Lathiat> i ethereald it, it seems to send th esame packet type, i'll have to figure out whats different
[04:16] <lu|away> where are j^'s packages?
[04:16] <whiprush> I can do that + my 10x10 idea
[04:16] <jdub> ## j^'s NetworkManager
[04:16] <jdub> deb http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ ./
[04:16] <whiprush> good?
[04:16] <lifeless> mdz: so - baz's packaging, bicycle-repair's packaging are two packages. 
[04:17] <jdub> rock on :)
[04:17] <jdub> whiprush: even just a list of cool stuff in universe would be a good start
[04:17] <whiprush> give me a day or two.
[04:17] <Lathiat> now i just need to find ross
[04:18] <whiprush> lu|away: it has a startup script thing and everything
[04:18] <whiprush> you just install, and go.
[04:18] <lu|away> whiprush: well, so, typically with NM I install, and 3-5 minutes later my kernel hangs
[04:18] <whiprush> it does the Right Thing inbetween suspends too
[04:18] <lu|away> so until my fantasy football draft is complete I can't risk it. :)
[04:18] <whiprush> what wifi card?
[04:19] <jdub> lu|away: what network cards do you have?
[04:19] <lu|away> atheros
[04:19] <whiprush> same problem
[04:19] <whiprush> until the other day
[04:19] <jdub> oh.
[04:19] <lu|away> whiprush: ?
[04:19] <whiprush> the latest l-r-m has no problems for me
[04:19] <whiprush> that used to happen to me
[04:19] <whiprush> random lockups when scanning
[04:19] <lu|away> nice.
[04:19] <whiprush> or doing wifi-type stuff
[04:19] <jdub> yeah, it'll be up and down, just due to the combination of prop driver and n-m support for its breakages
[04:19] <wasab1> Hmm. jbailey, a week ago 2.5.12 was not putting evms support into the initramfs, did you ever hear about that?
[04:19] <wasab1> 2.6.12.
[04:20] <whiprush> latest updates should do the trick
[04:20] <lu|away> well, right, though other network management tools don't hurt atheros quite so bad as to hurt my kernel
[04:20] <whiprush> I feel your pain, I was close to buying a new card 
[04:20] <lu|away> but yeah, I'm glad to hear things have gotten worked around or whatever
[04:20] <lu|away> that is quite awesome
[04:20] <jdub> quick guide:
[04:20] <jdub> install n-m
[04:20] <jdub> remove /etc/rc*.d/*bind*
[04:20] <jdub> restart dbus
[04:20] <wasab1> bah.
[04:21] <jdub> start nm-applet
[04:21] <whiprush> hmmm, I didn't have to mangle bind or dbus
[04:21] <jdub> you can't run two binds at the same time :)
[04:21] <jdub> and n-m really wants to be on the system dbus
[04:21] <whiprush> well, I'm pretty sure most people won't have a bind running alreadt
[04:21] <jbailey> wasab1: Yes, I know abaout that.
[04:22] <jdub> whiprush: when you reboot, and the bind startup scripts run bind, then you do :)
[04:22] <jbailey> wasab1: Do you do evms?  Will you be a guinea pig? =)
[04:22] <wasab1> jbailey: yes and sured.
[04:22] <jbailey> wasab1: Lovely!
[04:22] <mdz> lifeless: I have a ton of work to do; was there a question in there?
[04:22] <whiprush> jdub: saw your posts about that earlier, I've rebooted like 5 times, no difference, still just working
[04:22] <jdub> jbailey: oh crap, i haven't rebooted for you
[04:22] <whiprush> unless it's doing some something in the background it shouldn't be
[04:23] <jbailey> jdub: It's all good.  I'm trying to remember off hand which bug was yours.. =)
[04:23] <jbailey> DSDT handling?
[04:23] <jdub> whiprush: sudo netstat -pan | grep $(pidof named)
[04:23] <jdub> jbailey: that one's fixed
[04:23] <jdub> jbailey: mdrun funniness on my server
[04:23] <mdz> lifeless: the next tech board meeting is 2005-09-06, but because of the preview release, it might be pushed out a week or more
[04:23] <jbailey> Oh right.  Where if the last device I touched wasn't raid then I assumed there was no raid in the system.
[04:24] <jbailey> jdub: Ought to be fixed, I'd appreciate it when you have time.
[04:24] <jdub> yeah
[04:24] <jdub> i'll do it now
[04:24] <jbailey> jdub: You just want to see the new usplash, admit it. =)
[04:24] <wasab1> evms should totally be the default vol management system. ;)
[04:24] <jdub> jbailey: no usplash on my server man
[04:24] <lifeless> mdz: I'm not in a rush. Just moving the process along. The question was 'is maintaining the base debian dir for baz, and the bicycle-repair package' qualifying work ?
[04:25] <jdub> i have to reboot my notebook too ;)
[04:25] <mjg59> jdub: Mirror sync not finished yet?
[04:25] <jdub> mjg59: finished, upgrading now
[04:25] <jdub> will do notebook first
[04:25] <jdub> sleepyhead ;)
[04:25] <mjg59> jdub: I promise you a world of rock
[04:25] <whiprush> ooh
[04:25] <whiprush> this the new artwork?
[04:25] <mdz> lifeless: if they go verbatim into ubuntu, I'd say definitely
[04:25] <mjg59> whiprush: Yeah. Not finalised, but much better than what we had up to now
[04:25] <mdz> lifeless: if there's someone in between who is taking your work and making it suitable for ubuntu, I'd say it's more subjective
[04:25] <mjg59> whiprush: Also, lsb-base integration so text actually appears
[04:26] <wasab1> I don't want boot text. =(
[04:26] <jdub> wasab1: i'm working on mjg59 about that - wait for breezy+1 :)
[04:26] <wasab1> I only want text if something fails badly. heh.
[04:26] <wasab1> cool
[04:26] <whiprush> mjg59: rock
[04:26] <lifeless> bicycle-repair is used verbatim AFAIK. ditto bazaar, though bob2 does tweak it (as far as I know all he does is change the deb version to be not-an-upstream number.)
[04:27] <mjg59> jdub: It's arguably a bug that any text appears, so we can probably remove that
[04:27] <lifeless> mdz: thanks. I've got what I need to put stuff on the wiki page.
[04:27] <mjg59> Oh dear. It's going to be too hot here tomorrow.
[04:27] <jdub> mjg59: ... for breezy?! i thought we said--
[04:27] <wasab1> I'd like it to boot exactly like OS X does really.
[04:27] <mjg59> jdub: Did we? It's like a one line patch for the kernel, and a couple for grub
[04:27] <jdub> wasab1: OS X has boot text. ;-)
[04:27] <wasab1> Simple gray or otherwise colored screen until high res is avaiolable.
[04:28] <wasab1> Sorta. It has a progress bar.
[04:28] <mjg59> jdub: Oh, hang on, I see what you mean
[04:28] <jdub> mjg59: oh, no, wasab1 and i are talking about the usplash scrolly bits
[04:28] <mdz> wasab1: sure, all we need to do is develop a custom hardware platform for Ubuntu.  then we can get rid of all this conditional logic ;-)
[04:28] <jdub> yeah
[04:28] <wasab1> It doesn't have scrolling techy text.
[04:28] <jdub> but the other stuff, totally agree
[04:28] <jdub> and i asked jbailey about the grub spew
[04:28] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah. I still hold with what we agreed for now
[04:28] <wasab1> mdz: I recognize up to the bootloader we can do nothing. ;)
[04:28] <jdub> yeah, conditional logic is for girls
[04:28] <jbailey> jdub: I looked and wasn't able to find a bugzilla entry.... =)
[04:28] <wasab1> but beyond that!
[04:28] <jbailey> jdub: I *like* girls...
[04:28] <mdz> wasab1: there are things we can't do beyond that, too
[04:28] <lu|away> what do I need to install to get the usplash sexiness?
[04:29] <mjg59> If someone rewrites a small amount of bogl, we can have anti-aliased text in usplash...
[04:29] <wasab1> Oh? Such as?
[04:29] <mdz> lu|away: ubuntu-desktop
[04:29] <mdz> and 'linux'
[04:29] <louie> hrm.
[04:29] <jbailey> mjg59: Will that make it harder for me to port it to ppc?
[04:29] <jdub> louie: install usplash, then re-mkinitramfs -o /boot/<your-initrd-file>
[04:29] <mjg59> louie: More usefully, perhaps, usplash, lsb-base, initramfs-tools and dpkg-reconfigure your kernel
[04:29] <wasab1> I really don't want to see graphics until we have high res though. They just look nasty
[04:29] <louie> mjg59: thanks
[04:30] <mjg59> wasab1: Depending on boot, that could then result in a very long black screen
[04:30] <jdub> should have all that stuff already
[04:30] <mdz> mjg59: I've now seen on three different displays; if the picture is not adjusted properly for whatever reason, the border area comes through as a light color
[04:30] <mjg59> wasab1: The Windows world deals with 640x480 in 16 colours
[04:30] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm
[04:30] <mdz> mjg59: any idea how we can make that black instead?
[04:30] <wasab1> THe windows world sucks. ;0
[04:30] <mjg59> mdz: My only guess is that their might be a bit of overscan
[04:30] <jbailey> mjg59: I see the outside square as white here on my laptop too.
[04:30] <jdub> mdz, mjg59: hrm, perhaps we have to specify one index as the screen backgroudn too
[04:30] <mjg59> mdz: Easiest way around that is to make colour 0 black
[04:30] <mdz> mjg59: sounds fine to me
[04:30] <louie> jdub: I removed ubuntu-desktop a long time ago because, well, I wanted to see how much misc. puffery I could remove from the livecd, mostly, and decided to leave it off my machine, which is often low on space
[04:31] <jdub> louie: badness :)

[04:31] <jdub> mjg59: turns out shifting colours between indices is hard
[04:31] <mjg59> jdub: Dude, have you not rebooted yet?
[04:31] <jdub> mjg59: it's just shutting down atm
[04:32] <mjg59> jdub: I'll write a damn program to do it
[04:32] <louie> jdub: ubuntu-desktop depends on a lot of stuff which is totally unrelated to any sane meaning of the word 'desktop'
[04:32] <mjg59> The BBC news person has what looks like an X300 on the desk in front of him
[04:32] <jdub> mjg59: supposedly some gif toolkits do it
[04:32] <HrdwrBoB> louie: postfix isn't needed on a desktop?
[04:32] <jdub> louie: agree.
[04:32] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: no, and we don't depend on it anymore
[04:32] <mjg59> louie: I think "desktop install" rather than "desktop environment"
[04:32] <jdub> louie: i want to move the python stuff to ubuntu-python
[04:33] <louie> mjg59: by either definition, it doesn't work
[04:33] <louie> mjg59: all the misc. python stuff, for example?
[04:33] <mjg59> louie: Yeah, well
[04:33] <jdub> mjg59: ARGH!
[04:33] <mjg59> Hrm. Ok, it's not an X300. Previous generation Dell, though
[04:33] <jdub> mjg59: i have old poo artwork without scrolly bits!
[04:33] <wasab1> I wonder if there is any feasible way for me to mod my bios to remove all text.
[04:34] <mjg59> jdub: Dude, you have the wrong usplash and the wrong lsb-base, or you didn't mkinitramfs
[04:34] <mjg59> 0.1-6 is the usplash you need
[04:34] <jdub> i did all these things!
[04:34] <mjg59> It works for everyone else
[04:34] <jdub> fascist machine
[04:34] <mjg59> WONTFIX, NOTABUG
[04:34] <jdub> heh
[04:34] <mdz> jdub: perhaps you poked at the wrong kernel
[04:34] <mdz> dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` && reboot
[04:34] <jdub> i did mkinitramfs
[04:34] <mjg59> jdub: I mean, dude, mdz has got it to work
[04:34] <mjg59> And everyone knows how he feels about graphics
[04:35] <mdz> yeah, and I'm pretty slow when it comes to computers
[04:35] <jdub> wow
[04:35] <jdub> hey
[04:35] <jdub> random
[04:35] <jdub> so with cfq
[04:35] <jdub> i get the gdm drumbeat before login:
[04:35] <jdub> that's harsh
[04:35] <whiprush> brrump bump
[04:36] <mjg59> Hrm
[04:36] <mjg59> That's because cfq eats babies
[04:36] <jdub> cfq was meant to fix the baby eating problem
[04:36] <mjg59> So, for reasons I don't understand, at 03:30 every morning, BBC news switches to PBS for half an hour
[04:36] <louie> so you can know how good you have it?
[04:36] <mjg59> Uh, not PBS. ABC.
[04:36] <louie> sort of like taking the children of the rich to tour homeless shelters?
[04:37] <mdz> could someone figure out why gdm doesn't switch the console properly on the live CD anymore?
[04:37] <mdz> on shutdown?
[04:37] <mdz> it used to
[04:37] <jdub> uh oh
[04:37] <mjg59> mdz: We should add a shutdown and reboot init script for usplash, too
[04:37] <louie> uh
[04:37] <jbailey> wasab1: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/initramfs-tools_0.25_all.deb =)
[04:37] <mdz> mjg59: yes, but it looks like not for breezy
[04:38] <jbailey> wasab1: I've confirmed that it still boots my totally non-evms setup here, no idea beyond that.
[04:38] <jbailey> wasab1: It does load all the pieces on, though.
[04:38] <jdub> mjg59: toshset spews a debconf error about fully-enabled acpi machines
[04:38] <mjg59> jdub: YES, I KNOW
[04:38] <jdub> ha ha
[04:38] <mjg59> (The baby Jesus weeps bitter tears)
[04:39] <jdub> another gin and tonic
[04:39] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, that's a point. Can we grab 1.70-1 from Debian for toshset to fix gcc-4.0 FTBFS?
[04:39] <jdub> so apparently some major strains of malaria are resistant to quninine now
[04:39] <mjg59> There's basically no code changes other than that
[04:39] <jdub> quinine
[04:39] <mdz> mjg59: infinity already asked, and I said yes
[04:39] <louie> jdub: yeah, have been for at least a few years
[04:39] <mjg59> jdub: Bah. I'm being forced to drink myself through the mountain of Stella that got left here after the housewarming
[04:39] <mdz> mjg59: at least, I assume you were both talking about the same thing.  I don't remember which version he wanted
[04:40] <mdz> stella is not a very good beer
[04:40] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah. Ok, cool - I missed you acking it
[04:40] <mjg59> mdz: I wholeheartedly agree
[04:40] <louie> jdub: they don't give the peace corps kids in africa quinine anymore
[04:40] <mjg59> But I only have one more can to get through, and then I have enough cupboard space to get something decent
[04:40] <jdub> mjg59: you let housewarmers bearing stella in the house?
[04:40] <mdz> mjg59: I have decided that talisker is worth having around, even if it isn't quite as good as cragganmore
[04:40] <mjg59> jdub: It was Phil Hands
[04:41] <jdub> so building a custom kernel for ubuntu is a bit of a challenge these days
[04:41] <jdub> i imagine
[04:41] <mjg59> jdub: Yes
[04:42] <mjg59> Got usplash yet?
[04:43] <mdz> yeah, what's taking so long?
[04:43] <jdub> "Apple Computer is preparing a major announcement next week, dropping hints of something as critical to the company's future as the release of the original iPod in 2001."
[04:43] <mjg59> Tablet?
[04:43] <jdub> BABIES TO RECEIVE IPOD INTERFACE AT BRIS
[04:43] <mjg59> BRIS?
[04:43] <mjg59> That's crazy talk
[04:43] <mjg59> Or dreadful typing
[04:43] <louie> why wait that long?
[04:44] <mjg59> Inter-uterine ipod
[04:44] <jdub> mjg59: it wasn't a typo ;)
[04:44] <mjg59> iuPod
[04:44] <mdz> mjg59: that's what they call births in Australia
[04:44] <mjg59> mdz: Damnit.
[04:44] <jdub> supposedly it's music related
[04:44] <jdub> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Apple_hints_at_big_music_announcement/0,2000061702,39209327,00.htm?feed=rss
[04:44] <louie> oh, right
[04:44] <louie> this is when they announce all the major labels have told them to fuck off
[04:44] <louie> :)
[04:45] <jdub> http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/swinger?entry=towards_humanity_oh_my
[04:45] <jdub> ^ ha ha ha
[04:45] <mjg59> jdub: Get usplash working, damnit
[04:45] <whiprush> jdub: you just had to defend why we're not shipping spatial by default.
[04:45] <mdz> jdub: stop changing the subject
[04:45] <jdub> mjg59: now i'm upgrading my laptop!
[04:46] <whiprush> we're indeed in the outer limits.
[04:46] <jdub> mjg59: i must've been upgrading something else before
[04:46] <mjg59> "KDE uses C++ so it's less error prone and allows developers to concentrate on real work instead of fighting with libraries (and dependencies)"
[04:46] <mjg59> ?
[04:46] <louie> well
[04:46] <louie> to be fair
[04:46] <mjg59> I must have missed all those C ABI transitions
[04:46] <louie> if I had a nickel for every time we had some stupid pointer-based-bullshit crash in bugzilla
[04:46] <mjg59> Except, no
[04:47] <louie> I'd not be worried about going back to work, or school
[04:47] <mjg59> That is, actually, a 4:0 ABI transition win for C++
[04:47] <mdz> louie: yeah, good thing C++ doesn't use pointers
[04:47] <HrdwrBoB> I am not very keen on Gnome, because I hate depending on lots of different libraries with different evolutionary speeds
[04:47] <jdub> whiprush: i've always loved the feature myself (to a certain extent), but understood its impact on real users
[04:47] <jdub> louie: ha ha C++ without pointers!@
[04:47] <louie> right, so, not the example I was searching for
[04:47] <whiprush> jdub: the one bummer with new browser, is that the sidebar isn't drag and dropabble.
[04:47] <louie> it's late, I'm tired ;)
[04:47] <whiprush> so it's like, so close.
[04:47] <jdub> whiprush: yeah
[04:47] <jdub> good bug :)
[04:48] <mjg59> Oh dear. ABC seem to be saying that the US is going to be bankrupt now.
[04:48] <mjg59> $67.20 a barrel? Ouch.
[04:48] <louie> it was up to $74 this morning at one point.
[04:48] <jdub> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tecosystems?m=808
[04:49] <jdub> mu ha ha
[04:49] <jdub> mjg59: STATUS: mkinitramfs
[04:49] <lifeless> mjg59: goes around, comes around.
[04:49] <mjg59> louie: It's basically impossible for a third party to provide dynamically linked C++ binaries
[04:49] <jdub> mjg59: STATUS: reboot
[04:49] <mjg59> jdub: Hurrah
[04:49] <louie> mjg59: I'm not saying C++ is good
[04:50] <louie> mjg59: I'm just saying C really sucks
[04:50] <mjg59> louie: Oh, hell, yeah
[04:50] <mjg59> C really sucks
[04:51] <jdub> HOLY CRAP
[04:51] <mjg59> We win!
[04:51] <jdub> MY PANTS ARE A MESS!
[04:51] <jdub> mjg59: ok, so the funny look must be the scaling on my LCD
[04:51] <mjg59> jdub: Only thing really left to fix is word wrapping
[04:51] <louie> #ubuntu: our pants are a mess
[04:51] <mjg59> Funny look?
[04:51] <jdub> mjg59: console scaling, makes it look, uh, badly anti-aliased
[04:52] <mjg59> Ah, yeah
[04:52] <jdub> we can pass that off as a feature though
[04:52] <mjg59> That's massively hardware dependent
[04:52] <jdub> is it possible to turn off the scaling in userland?
[04:52] <mjg59> Yes. If we know how to speak to your specific bios.
[04:52] <jdub> save state, turn it off, resume state
[04:52] <jdub> oh
[04:52] <jdub> screw that, then
[04:53] <mjg59> (So, uh, no)
[04:53] <mjg59> ACPI was a wonderful opportunity to standardise all of this
[04:53] <mjg59> But, damn.
[04:53] <jdub> mdz: http://lwn.net/Articles/149564/
[04:53] <jdub> ha ha h
[04:53] <jdub> a
[04:53] <mjg59> louie: I'm actually astonished at how bad ABC seems to be
[04:54] <louie> mjg59: the only news radio worth listening to in the US is NPR
[04:55] <louie> and even that is not nearly as good as BBC
[04:55] <whiprush> it's all about science friday.
[04:55] <EvanCarroll> I just found a pretty big bug in breezy, I was playing with debfoster, a utility that i never used before in ubuntu, when I asked it to purge the vlc package, in doing so all of the vlc dependenices not registered as dependencies elsewhere were removed, the result was quite odd, no sound using xine/alsa, like a problem with mpeg/mp3+avi/rm decoding in everything
[04:55] <louie> which probably would not be as good as circa-1985 apple tts reading the economist
[04:55] <EvanCarroll> Though i could see the motion picture, I coulden't hear the sound, and nothing spit out an error to stderr or though dialog, nothing in logs or anything
[04:55] <louie> OK
[04:56] <louie> wish me luck, usplash and n-m when I return
[04:56] <louie> hopefully
[04:56] <louie> either that or DEATH
[04:56] <EvanCarroll> the only thing that produced sound was xmms with its alsa plugin, when i readded vlc for troubleshooting everything worked
[04:56] <mjg59> jdub: So how many sexiness points do we get for that?
[04:56] <mjg59> EvanCarroll: That's very odd.
[04:57] <jdub> mjg59: well, i'm rebooting again
[04:57] <jdub> if that's any indication
[04:57] <mjg59> Haha
[04:57] <mjg59> I did that several times today
[04:58] <jdub> mjg59: the progress bar needs to be further down
[04:58] <jdub> mjg59: in between bottom of logo and top of text area
[04:58] <mjg59> Oh, the progress bar has been added?
[04:58] <EvanCarroll> mjg59: It is reproducable though, I can output the log of the things that vlc pkg added to my system, I would say all of its dependenices should be listed with other programs that could use them though, such as gxine
[04:58] <jdub> yeah
[04:58] <mjg59> I hadn't seen it working with those graphics yet
[04:58] <mjg59> Yeah, that's an easy fix
[04:59] <EvanCarroll> or at the very least amarok, kaffeine, and nautoplay
[04:59] <mjg59> Pls file bug kthxbi
[04:59] <mjg59> (Severity: BLOCKER)
[04:59] <jdub> mjg59: when would you expect it to dump you at normal output?
[04:59] <jdub> with current version
[04:59] <mjg59> jdub: If something goes wrong
[04:59] <mdz> mjg59: hmm
[05:00] <mjg59> Unless an init script is taking too long
[05:00] <mjg59> I might want to extend the timeout
[05:00] <mdz> mjg59: I think busybox init is killing usplash
[05:00] <mjg59> mdz: Mm? Erk.
[05:00] <mjg59> mdz: How so?
[05:00] <mdz> mjg59: well, it does more or less kill(-1)
[05:01] <mdz> mjg59: what I get is the usplash artwork, static and unchanging until X starts
[05:02] <mdz> fixing that is going to be a pain
[05:02] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, nngh.
[05:02] <mjg59> mdz: I haven't seen that. I get text here.
[05:02] <mdz> mjg59: on the live cd?
[05:02] <mjg59> Oh, no
[05:02] <mjg59> Sorry, was missing context
[05:02] <jdub> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: operation not permitted
[05:03] <jdub> something in my hdparm settings, i guess
[05:03] <mdz> mjg59: the live CD boots into d-i, which uses busybox init, then it tells busybox init to re-exec itself (along the way it kills everything but itself)
[05:03] <mjg59> jdub: That sounds like initramfs somehow missing your driver
[05:03] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. Right.
[05:03] <mdz> mjg59: so either I'll need to hack up busybox, or create an init script for usplash so that it gets started after init
[05:03] <mjg59> mdz: Well. it /could/ just catch KILL...
[05:03] <fabbione> morning
[05:03] <mdz> mjg59: catch the uncatchable catch?
[05:04] <mdz> dream the impossible dream?
[05:04] <mjg59> Oh, damn, KILL is uncatchable?
[05:04] <mdz> yes
[05:04] <mjg59> I forget which ones are and aren't
[05:04] <jbailey> jdub: Take ide-generic out of your /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[05:04] <mdz> jdub: DELETE /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[05:04] <jdub> well, it even happens post-boot
[05:04] <mdz> jdub: and then re-mkinitramfs
[05:04] <mjg59> jdub: Once ide-generic has bound, nothing else can grab the controller
[05:05] <jdub> oh
[05:05] <jdub> badness
[05:05] <wasab1> I don't suppose anybody knows hwo to make NFS not require reverse DNS?
[05:05] <mjg59> wasab1: Check /etc/hosts.deny
[05:06] <wasab1> Check for what?
[05:06] <mjg59> wasab1: man hosts.deny
[05:07] <wasab1> Well, the file is empty.
[05:07] <mjg59> Unsure, then
[05:08] <wasab1> It seems to be part of NFS itself.
[05:08] <mjg59> Not to the best of my knowledge
[05:08] <mjg59> Though I haven't touched NFS since 2002, thankfully
[05:08] <wasab1> Heh.
[05:08] <wasab1> I'm open to alternatives. =(
[05:10] <mdz> lamont-away: around?
[05:11] <jdub> mjg59: magical
[05:11] <jdub> i'm reboooting again
[05:11] <mjg59> jdub: ?
[05:12] <jdub> i just got my first complete usplash run
[05:12] <mjg59> Are you addicted?
[05:12] <mjg59> Haha
[05:12] <jdub> so i'm going to watch it again
[05:12] <mjg59> Rock
[05:13] <jdub> mjg59: mm, and that choice of red wasn't offensive
[05:14] <mjg59> jdub: I think this is a historic victory
[05:14] <fabbione> mjg59: yo
[05:14] <mjg59> fabbione: Hi
[05:14] <fabbione> mjg59: i think i need a new laptop.. what brand would you suggest?
[05:15] <fabbione> (amd64/TONS of RAM/no need of big hd/possibly nice big screen)
[05:15] <mjg59> fabbione: If you've got enough, IBM
[05:15] <mjg59> There are no good amd64 laptops yet
[05:15] <fabbione> mjg59: i only have one.. i don't make laptop collection as you do...
[05:16] <daniels> fabbione: he meant enough money
[05:16] <mjg59> IBM are expensive, but the T series is *very* good
[05:16] <mjg59> Toshiba are probably the best of the rest, if you go for their business machines
[05:16] <fabbione> mjg59: how much are we talking about +/-?
[05:17] <mjg59> fabbione: 1500 Euros or so 
[05:17] <mjg59> At a guess?
[05:17] <mjg59> I don't really know what they go for in the Eurozone
[05:17] <fabbione> mjg59: eheh ok :) an estimate is more than fine
[05:17] <mjg59> You could get the same CPU and RAM for much less, but it wouldn't be as well made
[05:18] <jdub> mjg59: use your BBC words
[05:18] <jdub> this is AN historic victory
[05:18] <mjg59> I REFUSE.
[05:18] <fabbione> mjg59: hmmm they have IBM R50 and T42..
[05:19] <mjg59> fabbione: T42
[05:19] <jdub> fabbione: the samsung-rebadged Dells are good (currently the Dell X1 / Samsung Q20)
[05:19] <mjg59> The R series is cheap rubbish
[05:19] <fabbione> mjg59: and they are almost the same prices as PowerBooks ....
[05:19] <mjg59> Yeah
[05:19] <mjg59> They're nicer than Powerbooks
[05:19] <jdub> they're just like the IBMs without the bowel pain
[05:19] <mjg59> No T43s?
[05:19] <daniels> jdub: ps: when talking to an irishman, possibly refrain from mentioning 'your' BBC
[05:19] <fabbione> mjg59: i am surrounded by i386 :)
[05:19] <mjg59> fabbione: Haha
[05:19] <mjg59> fabbione: Well, Powerbook means PCMCIA or USB wireless
[05:20] <mjg59> The only AMD64 from a big name manufacturer yet is from HP, and it's not very nice
[05:20] <fabbione> mjg59: if i need to spend that amount of money, i would go for a powerbook.. i hounestly expected to be cheaper
[05:20] <fabbione> mjg59: i saw the ACER ferrari?
[05:20] <jdub> powerbook
[05:20] <jdub> sheesh
[05:20] <fabbione> mjg59: yeah usb/pcmcia doesn't scare me
[05:20] <mjg59> fabbione: If you buy an Acer, I will fly to your home and punch you in the face
[05:20] <jdub> you are buying a cadaver :)
[05:20] <fabbione> mjg59: gotcha :)
[05:20] <mjg59> And will never reply to your bugs
[05:21] <mjg59> fabbione: You remember how much crack acerhk was?
[05:21] <fabbione> mjg59: yes yes..
[05:22] <fabbione> wasn't a powerbook g4 2Ghz around?
[05:22] <mjg59> fabbione: Now imagine a whole laptop of that much crack
[05:22] <fabbione> or the top was 1.67?
[05:22] <jdub> mjg59: congrats
[05:22] <jdub> mjg59: usplash is aesthetically beautiful, and technically non-objectionable
[05:22] <fabbione> mjg59: yes.. i gotcha from "the i will fly there and kill you of the slowest painfull death" ;)
[05:23] <mjg59> jdub: It was a lovely spec to implement
[05:23] <mjg59> fabbione: The Dutch government wants to stop foreigners buying drugs there
[05:23] <fabbione> CRAP
[05:23] <louie> I probably should not have tempted the fates.
[05:24] <fabbione> mjg59: well we still have kernel source printed on thin cigarette paper.. just refill it with tobaccos.. that will do :)
[05:28] <mjg59> jdub: Any more impossibilities you want implemented before release?
[05:28] <jdub> no
[05:28] <jdub> it is love
[05:28] <daniels> mjg59: also, I want a pony
[05:28] <wasabi> jbailey: no luck.
[05:28] <jdub> we can worry about scrolly bits for breezy+1 ;)
[05:29] <wasabi> Says no root device, can't find /dev/evms/root
[05:29] <jbailey> Hmm
[05:29] <jbailey> wasabi: Can you try rebooting, add the word 'break' to the kernel command line.  It should drop you to a shell.
[05:29] <jbailey> wasabi: Take a look in /dev/evms, does it exist?  What's in there?
[05:30] <wasabi> lemmie grab other comp
[05:30] <jbailey> If nothing, trying running /sbin/evms_activate
[05:30] <jbailey> wasabi: Cool.
[05:31] <jdub> jbailey: ok, time to reboot my server :)
[05:32] <jbailey> jdub: Cool.  Hopefully get you and wasabi happy and then I'll go to bed. =)
[05:34] <wasabi> No /dev/evms and no /sbin/evms_activate
[05:34] <jbailey> Well, the second is the cause of the first..
[05:34] <jbailey> Hmm
[05:35] <wasabi> reverse that.
[05:35] <wasabi> Heh
[05:35] <wasabi> Err
[05:35] <wasabi> Yeah, you're right.
[05:35] <wasabi> Damn backwards logic!
[05:35] <wasabi> Oh hey, my iBook apparently can sleep and can wake up now.
[05:35] <wasabi> but it can't REALLY wake up. it wakes up and goes to console with kernel messages printed out
[05:35] <wasabi> and I can't switch to X
[05:36] <wasabi> I can plug/unplug a usb device though and see that it's responsive.
[05:36] <jbailey> wasabi: Are you able to boot the system the rest of the way up?
[05:36] <fabbione> wasabi: hand me 3000 Euros and i will happily test on my new shiny powerbook :)
[05:36] <wasabi> jbailey, i can switch back to oter kernel.
[05:37] <jbailey> wasabi: Please.  We need to figure out why evms_activate didn't get included.  It's in mine here.
[05:37] <mdz> mjg59: ok, so I changed it to start usplash after udev instead, which is not so bad
[05:37] <jbailey> Of course, I get "Error returned from evms_open_engine(): No such file or directory". but I'm hoping that just means that I don't have any evms volumes.
[05:37] <mdz> mjg59: but on the live CD, X can take longer than the timeout to start
[05:37] <wasabi> I get big errors like that.
[05:37] <wasabi> On the old kernel.
[05:38] <mdz> mjg59: and I seem to end up back at a text console rather than on the VC where X is running
[05:38] <wasabi> Unable to create lock file, might be dupe instances, etc.
[05:38] <wasabi> Always just ignored them.
[05:38] <mjg59> mdz: Ok
[05:38] <mdz> mjg59: usplash tries to switch back to VC#1 or VC#<previous> when it times out, right?
[05:38] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. If X hasn't changed VT, then usplash will exit back to its VT, and I guess that X might notice that the VT has changed again
[05:38] <jbailey> jdub: And?
[05:38] <jbailey> =)
[05:38] <wasabi> jbailey, I'm up.
[05:39] <mdz> mjg59: yeah, I think it's taking >=15 seconds just to read all of the X server garbage off of the CD, before it starts doing anything
[05:39] <mjg59> Yeah. usplash -c opens a new VT. If it times out or gets a QUIT message, it switches back to the old one.
[05:39] <jdub> jbailey: lovely :-)
[05:39] <jbailey> wasabi: 'kay, can you make sure that you have a file /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hook/evms
[05:39] <jbailey> jdub: Cool. =)
[05:39] <jdub> jbailey: /init: 89: chmod: not found
[05:39] <mdz> mjg59: should gdm tell usplash to quit?
[05:39] <mjg59> mdz: Ok. We can either increase the timeout generically, or I can give you a command to alter the timeout on the fly
[05:39] <jdub> jbailey: known?
[05:39] <jbailey> jdub: Yup, I know about that one.
[05:39] <wasabi> jbailey, I do not.
[05:39] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. That doesn't sound like the right answer.
[05:39] <mdz> mjg59: I wouldn't know what to set the timeout to
[05:39] <jdub> jbailey: tops - thanks! :)
[05:39] <jbailey> wasabi: 'kay, so I apparently gave you the wrong initramfs-tools deb, gimme a sec. =)
[05:39] <wasabi> hehe k
[05:40] <jdub> jbailey: btw, should i need sata_sil/sd_mod in /etc/mkinitramfs/modules?
[05:40] <jbailey> jdub: Nope.
[05:40] <mdz> mjg59: apart from that, it works (or would work, if the latest casper would build without infinity)
[05:40] <mjg59> mdz: Rock
[05:40] <jbailey> jdub: Mind doing another reboot test with that gone?
[05:40] <mjg59> mdz: Well, if it's got as far as gdm, then it's unlikely that anything is going to explode
[05:41] <jdub> ok :)
[05:41] <jbailey> wasabi: New version posted.
[05:41] <mdz> I guess usplash still isn't working for jdub, if he's complaining about that chmod error
[05:41] <wasabi> same version?
[05:41] <jbailey> mdz: It's his server, he probably isn't running usplash on it.
[05:42] <mdz> oh, I see
[05:42] <jbailey> I should upload the new busybox that fixes that.
[05:42] <jbailey> wasabi: Yup.
[05:42] <mjg59> usplash doesn't use chmod any more
[05:42] <jbailey> mjg59: initramfs-tools does.
[05:43] <mjg59> Yeah
[05:43] <mjg59> But one of the chmod errors used to be from usplash
[05:43] <fabbione> mdz: why xdm has been promoted to main?
[05:45] <mdz> fabbione: I don't know; perhaps elmo processed it straight into main
[05:45] <fabbione> mdz: ok.....
[05:46] <fabbione> mdz: if there is no good reason, it should land in universe, as it was for warty and hoary
[05:46] <mdz> fabbione: I already moved it
[05:46] <mdz> it was on anastacia's list
[05:46] <fabbione> mdz: perfect. thanks
[05:46] <mdz> fabbione: which you can always find at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt (updated every 15 minutes)
[05:47] <fabbione> mdz: yes, i recall the URL.. but that won't give me an explanation if somebody asked for it to be specifically forced in main...
[05:48] <jbailey> wasabi: How's it going?
[05:49] <fabbione> mdz: probably rman can be demoted too. It was a Xfree/Xorg B-D
[05:49] <mdz> fabbione: I already tried; it needs elmo love
[05:50] <fabbione> yeah it can go..
[05:50] <fabbione> hmm why elmo love?
[05:50] <fabbione> ah i guess for the links, and move stuff around...
[05:51] <wasabi> jbailey, it has it
[05:51] <wasabi> jbailey, about to reboot
[05:51] <jbailey> wasabi: lovely, thanks.
[05:53] <louie> hrm.
[05:53] <louie> so, X wasn't starting because my mouse device got renamed from /dev/input/mice to /dev/input/mouse0
[05:53] <louie> known bug?
[05:53] <louie> (or NOTABUG?)
[05:54] <mjg59> louie: Erm. The two devices aren't the same thing.
[05:54] <mjg59> /dev/input/mice should exist
[05:54] <mjg59> It multiplexes the stream from every mouse input device
[05:54] <mjg59> mouse0 is the input from a single mouse
[05:54] <louie>  /dev/input/mice does not exist, and replacing one with the other in my xorg.conf got me a working system, so... 
[05:54] <jbailey> louie: The udev upload I just did should have fixed that.
[05:55] <louie> jbailey: the missing /dev/input/mice, you mean?
[05:55] <jbailey> louie: right.
[05:55] <louie> ah, thanks.
[05:56] <jbailey> louie: #12915 for reference.
[05:57] <mjg59> Jesus. Have we really gone though about 15,000 bugs in a year
[05:57] <mjg59> ?
[05:57] <mjg59> That's not too bad
[05:58] <wasabi> synaptic should remember the size of the last Packages and Sources files that were downloaded.
[05:58] <wasabi> And use that to prime the progress bar.
[05:58] <jbailey> wasabi: Does that mean the reboot was succesful? =)
[05:58] <wasabi> Having a progress bar that hits 100% and goes back to 50% over and over again is a bit annoying.
[05:58] <wasabi> jbailey, naw, means I'm updating my laptop.
[05:58] <wasabi> No work
[05:59] <wasabi> ALERT!
[05:59] <wasabi> Engine: Unable to open the control node for Device-Mapper
[05:59] <wasabi> The Engine will run without Device-Mapper support.
[05:59] <wasabi> Error returned from evms_open_engine(): No such file or directory
[05:59] <wasabi> it's missing dmsomething. ;)
[06:00] <jbailey> wasabi: can you check /proc/modules for dm_mod ?
[06:01] <wasabi> Hmm. When runnign with break, it's not there, but it looks like break stops initrd launching
[06:02] <jbailey> wasabi: Right.  Didn't it drop you to a shell when it couldn't mount root? =(
[06:02] <wasabi> Nope. It said it was.
[06:02] <wasabi> But it just left me at the error line
[06:02] <jbailey> Hmm.
[06:02] <louie> blah, nm is not happy to be running under jhbuild. looks for the system dbus somewhere in my jhbuilt root. anyone know how to fix that?
[06:03] <jbailey> wasabi: Run scripts/local-top/lvm and then scripts/local-top/evms please?
[06:03] <wasabi> in break?
[06:03] <jbailey> Yup
[06:04] <wasabi> same error on evms
[06:04] <jbailey> The whole error, include the device-mapper bits?
[06:05] <jbailey> Oh - of course.
[06:05] <jbailey> lvm isn't causing dm-mod to be loaded for you.
[06:05] <wasabi> The error from evms.
[06:05] <jbailey> Can you modpribe dm_mod please
[06:05] <jbailey> and then try /sbin/evms_activate
[06:06] <wasabi> evms_activate gave me the no such file or directory error
[06:06] <wasabi> but not the Engine! error
[06:06] <windub> so that would be a big fat ugly NoBurger
[06:06] <wasabi> And /dev/evms now exists, with only one file. /dev/evms/dm
[06:06] <windub> jbailey: it spewed about changing roots and stuff
[06:06] <jbailey> windub: Err.. What? =)
[06:07] <jbailey> windub: Oh, removing the sata module?
[06:07] <windub> jbailey: pulling sata_sil/sd_mod from modules resulted in very unhappy initramfs
[06:07] <wasabi> On this other system, my SATA DVD drive doesn't appear at all.
[06:07] <wasabi> Alas.
[06:08] <jbailey> windub: I need to pass out soonish.  Are you able to take some time with me on this tomororw night?
[06:08] <windub> sure
[06:08] <jbailey> windub: It won't be a whole series of rebooting, mostly just walking sysfs to find out why it's not discovering this.
[06:08] <windub> fwiw, this machine is piix on the mobo, sil pci card, boots from sil
[06:08] <jbailey> Right, but it should load both of those.
[06:09] <windub> heh, now it's reconstructing my one disk raid array ;)
[06:10] <windub> hrm, and couldn't mount my other raid array
[06:10] <windub> interesting
[06:12] <jbailey> wasab1: Thanks.  Now that I see that I get the same message as you, I can trace it.
[06:12] <wasab1> okay!
[06:12] <jbailey> wasab1: Should be in either 0.25 or 0.26.  Depends if I need to push something for 0.25 sooner than evms is ready.
[06:12] <jbailey> And with that, g'night all. =)
[06:13] <wasab1> Night!
[06:16] <bddebian> gnight Jeff
[06:38] <lamont-away> mdz: just home
[06:43] <lamont-away> and wandering back and forth for a bit
[06:49] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[06:49] <jdub> pong
[06:49] <jdub> er, brb
[06:49] <jdub> just to make things difficult ;)
[06:49] <jdub> (phone)] 
[06:49] <whiprush> tell me of large appliances that keep things cold.
[06:52] <robitaille> ice boxes?
[06:52] <whiprush> sort of.
[07:00] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: (re 13905): I'm handling it today, I didn't make it yesterday, but it's top priority once I get into the office.
[07:10] <pitti> Hi folks
[07:11] <Mithrandir> hi pitti
[07:11] <pitti> Hi Tollef
[07:11] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:13] <xhaker> udev doesn't set my cd recorder permission right
[07:13] <xhaker> any info on that?
[07:14] <xhaker> i couldn't record a CD, before chmodding 777 /dev/hdc
[07:36] <pitti> xhaker: known bzg
[07:36] <pitti> xhaker: #14226, will be fixed soon
[07:37] <sivang> anybody has id what debmirror wants? Won't mirror without dists/breezy/main/binary-powerpc/Packages.gz signature in Release at /usr/bin/debmirror line 1174.
[07:37] <sivang> I use:debmirror /home/vmware/mirror -h archive.ubuntu.com -s main -r /ubuntu -d breezy -a powerpc
[07:37] <xhaker> didn't thought of searching :s sorry and by the way, scite is not yet synced with debian
[07:37] <sivang> pitti: morning
[07:37] <sivang> pitti: d'ya get my email?
[07:37] <pitti> Hi Sivan
[07:38] <pitti> sivang: just started reading mail 30 seconds ago
[07:38] <\sh> mjg59: for what do i need toshset_
[07:38] <\sh> ?
[07:38] <\sh> only 20 minutes left to leave for breakfast
[07:39] <sivang> pitti: k :)
[07:41] <jdub> pitti: do you maintain pmount TODO stuff in bugzilla, or on a wiki or in the tarball or something?
[07:43] <pitti> xhaker: should be solved in udev (0.060-1ubuntu10)
[07:43] <pitti> jdub: right in bzr: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/pmount/TODO
[07:45] <sivang> pitti: anyway I sent you a link to the debdiff, if you have time you can ping me in about 1.5 hours I'll be at work an able to respond to feedback
[07:46] <ajmitch> Keybuk: know of any bash completion for it yet?
[07:47] <pitti> jdub: the list doesn't contain the stuff from bug reports, btw
[07:47] <Keybuk> ajmitch: *shrug* I've never used bash in earnest
[07:47] <ajmitch> I've yet to play with zsh
[07:52] <jdub> pitti: haven't got anything in there about smb/nfs :-)
[07:52] <jdub> pitti: or images (iso/img)
[07:53] <pitti> jdub: #11796
[07:53] <jdub> aha
[07:53] <pitti> jdub: why smb? smbclient works fine, doesn't it?
[07:55] <jdub> pitti: mounting smb shares as seamlessly as media devices
[07:56] <pitti> jdub: hm, ok
[07:56] <pitti> jdub: back in warty, we explicitly removed the setuid bit from smbmount :-)
[07:57] <pitti> but that was to get rid of suid bits, not particularly to disable smb mounts by users
[07:58] <daniels> Keybuk: have you already got bored, thrown it away, and rewritten it, or does that come later?
[07:58] <pitti> elmo: please sync phpldapadmin simpleproxy
[07:59] <jdub> pitti: i should chat to you about this some time
[07:59] <jdub> pitti: maybe we should meet in some place easy for both of us to get to in the next couple of months
[07:59] <jdub> like montreal
[07:59] <jdub> that seems simple
[07:59] <jdub> i know
[07:59] <pitti> right :-)
[07:59] <jdub> maybe we should *all* go to montreal
[07:59] <pitti> great idea!!!
[08:00] <pitti> but it's friggin' cold there...
[08:00] <pitti> and my laptop produces almost no heat
[08:00] <pitti> ok, I could compile firefox in an endless loop...
[08:01] <ajmitch> pitti: don't do that to your poor laptop
[08:22] <Keybuk> daniels: bash?
[08:22] <Keybuk> I've always just used zsh
[08:22] <Keybuk> and ksh before that
[08:23] <daniels> Keybuk: ... okay, but why are you telling that to me?
 Keybuk: have you already got bored, thrown it away, and rewritten it, or does that come later?
[08:24] <Keybuk> unless I mis-understood the sarcasm
[08:26] <daniels> Keybuk: i was talking about your zsh completions
[08:26] <Keybuk> oh, right
[08:27] <Keybuk> I was going to give it to you, so you could split it into 100 different packages
[08:27] <Keybuk> zsh-completion-bzr-add
[08:27] <Keybuk> zsh-completion-bzr-remove
[08:27] <Keybuk> zsh-completion-bzr-status
[08:27] <Keybuk> zsh-completion-bzr-inventory
[08:27] <Keybuk> etc.
[08:27] <daniels> dude, don't look at me for the xorg app stuff
[08:27] <daniels> it might be instructive to check the changed-by field on all those uploads
[08:28] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software/_bzr
[08:28] <Keybuk> is the current code, it does completion of command names and a few of the arguments now
[08:28] <pitti> argh, dpkg conffile question for Xman
[08:28] <daniels> pitti: dpkg bug, harass keybuk
[08:29] <Keybuk> *shrug* dpkg bug you knew about before you broke X :)
[08:29] <pitti> I also got questions for two other x clients
[08:29] <pitti> well, as long as they don't appear in the hoary->breezy upgrade...
[08:29] <daniels> Keybuk: and again, 'might be instructive to check the changed-by field on all those uploads'
[08:29] <daniels> i've nothing to do with xman
[08:29] <daniels> pitti: they won't from hoary->breezy, by a very curious quirk of dpkg
[08:40] <jdub> pitti: hmm, i have two CDs listed in computer:///
[08:40] <jdub> and only one cd drive
[08:40] <jdub> they appear to be displaying the same thing
[08:40] <pitti> jdub: hm, can you please mail me your "lshal" output?
[08:40] <pitti> jdub: oh, btw...
[08:41] <pitti> jdub: does eject work for you? also for usb sticks?
[08:41] <pitti> jdub: it was broken for a while, but now it works fine for me again
[08:41] <jdub> eject with the desktop icon context menu just worked then
[08:41] <pitti> jdub: just want to confirm #5049
[08:41] <pitti> jdub: ok, fine
[08:41] <jdub> aha, and i still have two devices
[08:41] <jdub> rad
[08:42] <jdub> pitti: done
[08:42] <Burgundavia> daniels, you actually post in the forums?
[08:43] <daniels> Burgundavia: i troll for bugs around preview releases
[08:43] <Burgundavia> daniels, ah, that explains it
[08:43] <Treenaks> daniels: do you have any idea about the HP/Synaptics issue?
[08:44] <bob2> someone should run a tutorial to teach people how to file bugs or something
[08:44] <bob2> run it over msn, I mean
[08:44] <Treenaks> bob2: oh, like Simon Tatham?
[08:44] <Treenaks> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[08:44] <bob2> haha
[08:44] <pitti> bob2: right; "only file bugs if you have a proper explanation in plain text and diff -u format" :-)
[08:44] <bob2> haha
[08:45] <Treenaks> pitti: +patch
[08:45] <daniels> Treenaks: which one?
[08:45] <Treenaks> daniels: the one about all taps being middleclicks
[08:45] <Treenaks> daniels: which is teh suck
[08:45] <daniels> Treenaks: yeah, I saw it, but -synaptics hasn't changed in *ages*
[08:45] <daniels> Treenaks: so if it's recent breakage, I'd be looking at the kernel
[08:45] <Treenaks> daniels: it's recent hardware
[08:46] <Treenaks> (i.e. canonical-supplied)
[08:46] <daniels> maybe synaptics 0.14.x fixes it
[08:46] <Treenaks> daniels: also, it works fine on my _other_ laptop
[08:47] <jdub> mjg59: are you asleep?
[08:48] <pitti> jdub: odd, it seems that you get one icon for the storage device, and one for the volume on it
[08:48] <jdub> rad!
[08:48] <pitti> jdub: but you said this lshal was issued *after* you ejected the disc?
[08:48] <jdub> no
[08:48] <jdub> oh, well
[08:48] <jdub> i ejected, then put it back in
[08:48] <pitti> ah, ok
[08:49] <jdub> just to see if i still had two disks
[08:49] <pitti> then it's at least not completely broken :-)
[08:49] <jdub> :-)
[08:49] <jdub> yeah, that would be alarming
[08:49] <pitti> jdub: can you mail me lshal without a cd inserted, for comparison?
[08:49] <jdub> i believe so
[08:49] <Treenaks> daniels: it might be fixed in 0.14.2+
[08:50] <Treenaks> - Ignore the finger count from synaptics touchpads if the finger
[08:50] <Treenaks>   pressure is below finger_high. Some touchpads (for example, the one
[08:50] <Treenaks>   found on HP Pavilion 2028) report an unreliable finger count when
[08:50] <Treenaks>   the finger pressure is very low.
[08:51] <jdub> mmm, finger.
[08:51] <daniels> Treenaks: 'kay, I'll look into it
[08:51] <Treenaks> daniels: I'll attach this to the report
[08:51] <daniels> Treenaks: thanks
[08:52] <jdub> pitti: sent
[08:57] <rob^> are there any problems with xorg in breezy at the moment?
[08:57] <rob^> I just noticed there are a lot of updates
[08:58] <daniels> there will continue to be lots and lots of updates right through to breezy
[08:58] <rob^> yeah, nothing of note though?
[08:59] <daniels> not yet
[08:59] <Treenaks> daniels: how about http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14159 ;)
[09:00] <rob^> hmm 
[09:00] <daniels> Treenaks: hotkey-setup is matt's baby, not mine
[09:00] <daniels> Treenaks: (but yes, complete crack)
[09:01] <Treenaks> daniels: yeah, but as they're not quite standard keys..
[09:01] <daniels> 'quite'
[09:03] <pitti> jdub: just to be clear, you get two icons even if the CD-ROM is ejected?
[09:05] <jdub> pitti: no
[09:05] <jdub> pitti: icons disappear properly
[09:05] <jdub> pitti: but when mounted, i have two icons
[09:05] <pitti> ok
[09:05] <jdub> yeah, just to make sure
[09:06] <jdub> same thing happens with non-ubuntu cd
[09:06] <jsgotangco> is that for today's build?
[09:06] <pitti> jdub: ok, I will eyeball the gnome-vfs2 code
[09:07] <Belutz> anyone work in canonical? :)
[09:07] <pitti> Belutz: quite a few
[09:07] <jsgotangco> i've seen some
[09:08] <Belutz> pitti: what if i'm going to open official support for ubuntu in indonesia?
[09:08] <Belutz> i'm sorry, but this is out of topic from the channel
[09:09] <jsgotangco> Belutz, Ubuntu Marketplace in the Ubuntu website has details on how to do it
[09:09] <Belutz> jsgotangco: ok, i'm goign to look at it
[09:12] <jsgotangco> hi sivang 
[09:12] <Keybuk> random debconf error during upgrade: "Your kernel has ACPI enabled.  Unfortunately toshset is not fully functional on ACPI-enabled kernels".
[09:13] <Belutz> thx all
[09:14] <jdub> Keybuk: mjg59 knows about it. loudly.
[09:14] <sivang> jsgotangco: hey :)
[09:15] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Toshiba?
[09:15] <Treenaks> The Dutch version of that message is full of grammatical errors
[09:16] <Keybuk> jdub: yes, he just got a critical bug about it too :p
[09:17] <Keybuk> (but I don't even own a Toshiba)
[09:18] <daniels> mdz: btw, xkeyboard-config 0.6-1 fixes your dvorak ralt problem
[09:24] <dholbach> hi
[09:24] <sivang> hey dholbach 
[09:24] <jsgotangco> dholbach!
[09:24] <jdub> morning dholbach 
[09:24] <dholbach> morning sivang, jsgotangco :)
[09:24] <dholbach> jeff!
[09:24] <jdub> dholbach: how did thesis stuff go?
[09:24] <dholbach> jdub: i have presentation on friday
[09:24] <jdub> ooer
[09:25] <jsgotangco> ooohhh good luck!
[09:25] <jdub> and when i say ooer
[09:25] <jdub> i mean BOOYAKASHA
[09:25] <dholbach> *jitter* *tremble*
[09:25] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[09:26] <dholbach> elmo, infinity: do you happen to know what happened to my clamtk 2.06 upload?
[09:26] <pitti> dholbach: good luck and rock'em :-)
[09:26] <dholbach> hey martin
[09:26] <dholbach> how are you all? :)
[09:26] <pitti> dholbach: it was accepted according to the log
[09:27] <pitti> clamtk_2.06-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[09:27] <pitti> ACCEPT
[09:27] <pitti> dholbach: ^ this version?
[09:27] <dholbach> yes, i received the mails as well
[09:27] <dholbach> yes, it seems to never have been built
[09:27] <dholbach> at least there are no logs and no new version in the archive
[09:27] <sivang> dholbach: I've had my first FTBFS this morning, but besides that, everything's coolo :)
[09:28] <dholbach> sivang: there are a lot of "first times" :)
[09:28] <sivang> dholbach: yeah, and for some, Nth times :)
[09:29] <dholbach> "doesnt build at all", "builds only on arch X", "uploaded to wrong host", "upload not signed", ...
[09:29] <dholbach> hi carstenh 
[09:29] <carstenh> hi dholbach 
[09:29] <dholbach> carstenh: i'm in trier now as well :)
[09:30] <dholbach> carstenh: but will leave this afternoon
[09:30] <sivang> dholbach: yeah...
[09:31] <sivang> infinity is probably sleeping now, right?
[09:32] <Keybuk> There's something delightfully retro about that usplash font
[09:33] <pef> hi
[09:34] <xhaker> Keybuk, isn't it nice? :P
[09:41] <dholbach> hey mvo
[09:42] <pitti> Hi mvo
[09:42] <pitti> mvo: thanks for fixing u-n
[09:43] <mvo> hi dholbach, pitti 
[09:43] <mvo> pitti: yes, I'm pretty happy that it is fixed now, took me a bit to find the problem
[09:44] <pitti> mvo: was it a startup race condition with dbus?
[09:45] <mvo> pitti: it was a race between gtk and x that caused the shape extension not to work on the first run
[09:45] <pitti> carstenh: ping
[09:45] <carstenh> pitti: pong
[09:45] <pitti> mvo: ouch
[10:04] <jdub> daniels: is it sane for xorg.conf not to have a Module section?
[10:04] <jdub> when it was built by dpkg-reconfigure?
[10:06] <tepsipakki> what's the reason for running lrm-manager with --quick on boot?
[10:07] <tepsipakki> I'd like my nvidia binary-driver to be available on boot
[10:07] <jdub> it's built for you on boot
[10:09] <dholbach> morning doko
[10:09] <tepsipakki> jdub: no it isn't
[10:10] <tepsipakki> lrm-manager: ld: not found (or something)
[10:10] <jdub> tepsipakki: ls /lib/modules/2.6.12-7-686/volatile/
[10:10] <jdub> ah
[10:10] <jdub> something interesting is wrong, then
[10:10] <tepsipakki> I filed a bug on that some time ago
[10:10] <hunger> tepsipakki: Install binutils-static and replace ld with ld_static
[10:10] <tepsipakki> i know how to fix it for me ;)
[10:11] <tepsipakki> but would like to get the fix in ;)
[10:11] <hunger> tepsipakki: There are two bugs open about this issue IIRC, ask daniels, he should know for sure;-)
[10:12] <lifeless> dholbach: why are you assigning baz bugs ?
[10:12] <jdub> it builds the modules in l-r-m for you, at boot
[10:12] <dholbach> lifeless: they were all in the unassigned view
[10:13] <dholbach> lifeless: i thought it'd be better for them to be assigned to bazaar-developers
[10:13] <lifeless> please don't
[10:13] <lifeless> unassigned means noone has taken responsibility for them
[10:13] <dholbach> lifeless: what should i do with them?
[10:13] <lifeless> leave them unless you plan to work on them
[10:14] <dholbach> hmhmhmhmhm
[10:14] <lifeless> now all the ones you had edit _incorrectly_ show as being worked on by the baz team,.
[10:14] <daniels> jdub: 'no'
[10:14] <hunger> jdub: Why aren't the modules build at install time?
[10:14] <dholbach> lifeless: isnt the "accepted" bit what you are talking about?
[10:14] <lifeless> and I've got to get someone to go through and put them back to unassigned. 
[10:14] <daniels> jdub: still with fiddy-foah?
[10:15] <jdub> yes, -54 on my desktop - nvidia, x86, etc.
[10:15] <dholbach> lifeless: i don't want a needless discussion, just to make sure i get it right
[10:16] <jdub> it's rather bizarre running a server without SHAPE
[10:16] <daniels> jdub: output of DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=developer DEBUG_XORG_DEBCONF=developer sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg, pls
[10:16] <daniels> jdub: but ISTR this being a Debconf bug
[10:16] <lifeless> dholbach: actually, its different again, I just looked (I was alerted by email) - you are assign the work in the distro to the upstream team.
[10:16] <dholbach> lifeless: these are the only ones i can assign :)
[10:17] <lifeless> dholbach: So the right thing to do if you want upstream to work on it is to 'request a fix upstream'
[10:17] <jdub> daniels: you want the output?
[10:17] <lifeless> dholbach: 'accepted' means that the person assigned the bug has agreed. 'assignment' is asking a specific person to fix it in a specific context.
[10:18] <jdub> o/~ when you call my name, it's like a little prayer o/~
[10:18] <daniels> jdub: yeah
[10:18] <dholbach> lifeless: i see - it's just that bugs that are unassigned tend to get lost, assigned bugs are bugs that a team or somebody is aware of, accepted bugs from my point of view are bugs that are "taken care of"
[10:18] <lifeless> they cannot get lost - they are tied to bazaar, to the team, already.
[10:18] <lifeless> unassigned -> lost is a bugzilla thing, not malone ;0
[10:19] <dholbach> lifeless: i will leave the next bazaar bugs alon
[10:19] <dholbach> e
[10:19] <lifeless> dholbach: thanks. If you want a bazaar bug fixed, just do the 'request a fix in upstream', and/or get someone on the team to agree to tackle the bug, then they can assign it to themselves or ask you to assign it to them.
[10:20] <dholbach> lifeless: i wanted to make sure that the team knows of the bugs, nothing else
[10:20] <Mithrandir> dholbach: they probably know how to search for bugs in "bazaar". :-P
[10:21] <lifeless> dholbach: to make sure we know of bugs in bazaar, all you need to do is ensure there is an 'Ubuntu upstream' entry in the 'needs fixing in' column.
[10:21] <dholbach> Mithrandir: a mail in my inbox is a step closer to fixing the bug :)
[10:21] <lifeless> dholbach: I get a mail on evey bug when its filed against bazaar upstream.
[10:21] <Mithrandir> dholbach: that's not everyone's workflow.
[10:21] <dholbach> Mithrandir: that's what i just learnt
[10:21] <doko> >   * Add java-gcj-compat again as alternative for lib32gcj6 as per
[10:21] <doko> >     Matthias' advice.
[10:22] <dholbach> lifeless: i won't pester you guys again :)
[10:22] <doko> Mithrandir: I said: add it, not replace it
[10:22] <lifeless> dholbach: I'm very happy to have you helping with bug management.
[10:22] <lifeless> dholbach: things that are useful are reviewing bugs from old versions to see if they are fixed,
[10:22] <Mithrandir> doko: eh, yes?  I haven't replaced it, I've added it.
[10:23] <lifeless> dholbach: and taking ownership of bugs (assigning them to you ;)) followed by a patch ;0
[10:23] <Mithrandir> doko: if you want it done differently, you should either provide a diff, explain it properly or fix it yourself.
[10:24] <lifeless> dholbach: take bug 1534 for example.
[10:24] <lifeless> dholbach: its not listed as needing a fix in 'upstream bazaar'.
[10:24] <lifeless> dholbach: requesting an upstream fix there would be a useful thing to do, as it would make it visible to us.
[10:25] <dholbach> i see
[10:25] <doko> Mithrandir: sorry, that's not the tone I would expect. the java stuff is called as an external process, and it's used by dlopening libgcj. So we need both, not an alternative. The changelog doesn't say so.
[10:27] <fabbione> lifeless, dholbach: can you please stop playing ping pong with the bugs i did open in malone?
[10:27] <fabbione> they are either assigned or not
[10:27] <fabbione> lifeless: also.. why should they be unassigned?
[10:28] <dholbach> fabbione: i wanted to assign them to the team, but lifeless didn't like that - he wants upstream bugs not ubuntu bugs
[10:28] <fabbione> lifeless: they clearly are upstream bug dude.. did you at least read them?
[10:28] <lifeless> fabbione: team assignments are useless.
[10:28] <dholbach> fabbione: sorry for flooding your inbox - i thought it would help in the process
[10:29] <fabbione> the fact that they arrived as ubuntu is becauseat the time there was no clear idea on how to use malone
[10:29] <lifeless> fabbione: they mean nothing, we need individual assignment.
[10:29] <lifeless> fabbione: thats fine, this is nothing to do with the bug content, its to do with the workflow for getting them fixed.
[10:29] <lifeless> and assigning to team ensures they will be ignored violently.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> doko: there's no way to express that in the packaging system.
[10:29] <lifeless> because folk look for unassigned bugs, and bugs assigned to them individually. 
[10:30] <Mithrandir> doko: you can't say "use ( lib32gcj6 and java-gcj-compat ) or j2sdk"
[10:30] <lifeless> the Right Way to say 'upstream need to deal with this' is to request an upstream fix, and sure - they way they were entered may be improvable, but it doesn't change what we currently see.
[10:32] <doko> Mithrandir: lib32gcj6 | j2sdk, java-gcj-compat | j2sdk  comes close.
[10:32] <madduck> that's a pretty obvious plagiarism...
[10:32] <madduck> canonical should sue their asses!
[10:33] <Mithrandir> doko: why doesn't lib32gcj6 depend on java-gcj-compat if it's needed?
[10:34] <doko> Mithrandir: it's not needed. It would be needed, if we had a 32bit gij-4.0 on amd64.
[10:35] <Keybuk> madduck: *shrug* we don't actually know who invented their logo first
[10:36] <Keybuk> it'd be fairly ironic to go blasting in with all guns blazing, to discover that they commissioned it four years ago and only just got around to using it
[10:36] <Keybuk> and then have to change _our_ logo
[10:36] <lifeless> msn spaces ?
[10:36] <Mithrandir> lifeless: spaces.msn.com
[10:36] <madduck> lifeless: spaces.msn.com
[10:37] <lifeless> holy shite
[10:37] <lifeless> thats uncanny
[10:37] <Mithrandir> doko: first you're saying that's it's needed, then that it's not.
[10:38] <Keybuk> lifeless: did you not see that last year when it got noticed?
[10:38] <sivang> pitti: how can I see the new build log of gnome-panel ?
[10:38] <pitti> sivang: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gnome-panel/2.11.92-0ubuntu5/gnome-panel_2.11.92-0ubuntu5_20050830-0838-i386-successful.gz
[10:39] <pitti> daniels: ah, new dbus - sync was not possible?
[10:39] <sivang> pitti: yay :)
[10:39] <madduck> Keybuk: ah, so this has been known for a while?
[10:40] <Keybuk> madduck: yeah, 6mnths to a year
[10:40] <madduck> ic
[10:40] <Keybuk> it could also be simply parallel evolution
[10:40] <madduck> come on...
[10:40] <sivang> pitti: btw, why does it have hwdb is as it's virtual host? :)
[10:41] <Keybuk> it's not exactly a non-obvious logo
[10:41] <madduck> either they copied from ubuntu, or the dude who did the ubuntu logo "got inspired" by them.
[10:41] <madduck> Keybuk: it's the exact same concept, size, orientation.
[10:41] <doko> Mithrandir: no, OOo2 uses java in two ways. One way is to dlopen the libgcj library. For that case we need the lib32gcj6 library. In the other case, it's calling gij (separate process), using the native 64bit libgcj6.
[10:41] <pitti> sivang: it was just available for it :-) it's ogra's private nice hack
[10:41] <madduck> Keybuk: but let's not waste our time over this.
[10:41] <Keybuk> the orientation is actually not an accident
[10:41] <madduck> Keybuk: rather, let me ask some hct questions...
[10:41] <Keybuk> just about every other way up, it looks like one guy is on top, or one is the bottom in a threesome
[10:41] <Keybuk> it's about the only way you can draw that without it looking silly :p
[10:41] <madduck> Keybuk: :)
[10:42] <madduck> Keybuk: mirrored along the vertical axis would work.
[10:42] <Keybuk> then it'd look like the Canonical logo
[10:43] <madduck> Keybuk: so hct... you read?
[10:43] <madduck> ready
[10:43] <Keybuk> sure
[10:43] <madduck> Keybuk: aegis has this great concept of associating workflow states with changesets
[10:43] <madduck> and someone said that hct does that too.
[10:44] <Keybuk> how do you mean?
[10:44] <madduck> you can flag a changeset (new, under inspection, testing, final, ...)
[10:44] <Keybuk> there's support for that kind of thing in Launchpad
[10:44] <madduck> and then you can e.g. get a snapshot of the tree with only final changeesets
[10:45] <madduck> launchpad... for issues, yeah.
[10:45] <Keybuk> but only at the branch level, iirc
[10:45] <madduck> no, i mean in the SCM
[10:45] <madduck> yeah, and at changeset level.
[10:45] <madduck> so nothing in hct?
[10:45] <Keybuk> nope, nothing like that in hct
[10:45] <Keybuk> it'll probably support the lp branch label stuff, when we can come up with some use cases for it
[10:45] <daniels> pitti: haven't looked at it yet, tbh
[10:45] <madduck> lp?
[10:45] <Keybuk> launchpad
[10:46] <madduck> doh
[10:46] <daniels> pitti: i have syncing with debian on my agenda for dbus and mesa though
[10:46] <Keybuk> hct doesn't really work (despite its name) at the changeset level
[10:47] <Keybuk> it does the exact opposite; it works with collections of inter-related branches
[10:48] <Keybuk> an hct operation might be "take what's new in the equivalent RedHat source package and add it to my local one"
[10:48] <Keybuk> though it's obviously moving changesets about underneath, it doesn't talk about them to you
[10:48] <Keybuk> it talks about new patch branches, and stuff
[10:49] <Keybuk> it says "Debian added 04-fix-something-silly.patch" rather than anything else
[10:53] <carstenh> hmm, i remeber to have seen a filename like this in a debian source package
[10:53] <madduck> Keybuk: and what is sourcerer?
[10:55] <carstenh> a bit different, but debian floks seem to like the word silly: ./iptables-1.3.3/patches/s390/005-atomic_t_silly_hack.patch
[10:55] <Keybuk> sourcerer is the source-package import tool
[10:56] <daniels> jdub: so, uhm
[10:56] <madduck> import to the supermirror?
[10:56] <madduck> Keybuk: ?
[10:56] <daniels> jdub: could you please edit /var/cache/debocnf/config.dat, and change the seen flag of xserver-xorg/config/modules to false?
[10:56] <daniels> jdub: then reconfigure, and see if you get a proper modules section again
[10:56] <Keybuk> madduck: import into baz archives
[10:56] <Keybuk> as well as linking up the dots to previous imports, upstream tarballs, cvs, etc.
[10:57] <madduck> ah, ok. with the hct-style branches?
[10:57] <madduck> so sourcerer actually calls dpkg-source?
[10:57] <Lathiat> sourcerer? heh
[10:57] <dholbach> brb
[10:57] <Keybuk> no, it has it's own implementation of it (la la la, See Keybuk NIH)
[10:59] <madduck> Keybuk: will hct be any useful without the super mirror?
[10:59] <daniels> Keybuk: you're even worse than KDE
[11:00] <Keybuk> madduck: it's not useful without Launchpad or source packages imported with Sourcerer
[11:00] <Keybuk> at some point it'll grow a "start a new source package" mode, but it doesn't have that yet
[11:06] <madduck> Keybuk: and if it starts a new source package, how does it do it then? indpendently from launchpad?
[11:06] <madduck> i am asking because while hct looks promising, it's very ubuntu-centric. i am investigating a way to do something similar for debian, but without the requirement for a centralised architecture...
[11:06] <Keybuk> it's initially ubuntu-centric, yes
[11:07] <Keybuk> though it's designed to be useful for everyone
[11:07] <Keybuk> the requirement for a centralised architecture is necessary, because unless you co-operate on file-ids each system wouldn't be able to share patches
[11:08] <Keybuk> if your Debian baz archives for pmount use different file-ids than Ubuntu's baz archives -- you can't swap patches
[11:29] <hunger> Is launchpad down?
[11:35] <lifeless> Keybuk: no I didn't
[11:36] <Keybuk> lifeless: tsk, you need to spend more time reading e-mail, or something
[11:36] <lifeless> !
[11:46] <lifeless> is there a tool to complement dchroot that setups the config file and chroots ? Perhaps a wrapper around debootstrap ?
[11:47] <fabbione> lifeless: i don't agree with the way you handled 223
[11:48] <fabbione> lifeless: given that it is a bug
[11:48] <fabbione> noise in BTS is normal
[11:48] <lifeless> noise in BTS is harmful, and not normal.
[11:48] <fabbione> or you prefer to hide problems to users and get duplicates?
[11:49] <lifeless> I'm not deleting the bug description, or removing it from the db.
[11:49] <lifeless> I'm marking it accurately.
[11:50] <fabbione> REJECTing a bug means saying that's not a bug..
[11:50] <lifeless> but if you want to reopen it again in ubuntu, sure, I won't turn this into a bts war
[11:50] <fabbione> so either malone needs a more appropriate status
[11:50] <fabbione> or it has to stay as NEW
[11:50] <lifeless> its not new, its been triaged, and an action decided.
[11:50] <fabbione> lifeless: the bug is not ubuntu specific..
[11:51] <lifeless> if it was bugzilla, I'd say 'wontfix'
[11:51] <lifeless> perhaps you could file a bug on malone if you feel strongly about this.
[11:52] <dholbach> morning ogra
[11:53] <ogra> wow, who made this new usplash graphics ? 
[11:53] <sladen> andyf I think
[11:54] <ogra> its really cool...
[11:54] <ogra> sadly my widescreen display streches it 
[11:54] <kronoss> where can be seen the new graphics?
[11:58] <ogra> kronoss, dont you read ubuntu-devel ?  there isa step by step guide
[12:02] <mvo> mjg59: should new usplash bugs be assigned to you?
[12:02] <mvo> ogra: it's pretty cool the new usplash!
[12:02] <ogra> yeah
[12:11] <pitti> hmm, is that just me, or does usplash drop back to text mode *very* soon again?
[12:13] <mvo> pitti: I have it until X is started here
[12:14] <pitti> mvo: hm, that looks like a bug then; thnaks
[12:15] <Lathiat> drops back into text mode fairly soon here too..
[12:15] <Lathiat> or at least it used to
[12:15] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I'll chuck 14239 in your direction; I think it's initramfs-related.
[12:16] <mvo> fabbione: could you please test traceroute on your sparc and tell me if it faults with a bus error? a traceroute www.debian.org should be enough
[12:17] <carlos> mvo, hi, around?
[12:17] <mvo> carlos: yes
[12:17] <sladen> pitti: there's a watchdog of about 10seconds
[12:17] <carlos> mvo, I need that you change the synaptic's po directory layout
[12:18] <sladen> pitti: eg. fdisk 
[12:18] <pitti> sladen: hm, no init script takes so long for me
[12:18] <mvo> carlos: in what way and why? isn't it a fairly standard layout?
[12:18] <carlos> mvo, instead of having two .pot files there, please, create a po-manual or manual-po or something like that and move there that .pot file
[12:19] <carlos> mvo Rosetta is not able to handle directories with multiple .pot files and that's preventing to have breezy's synaptic imported into Rosetta
[12:19] <mvo> carlos: rosetta does not like two pot files in the same dir?
[12:20] <carlos> mvo, we will add that support in the future, but I don't think we will have it before breezy
[12:20] <mvo> carlos: ok, I'll have a look today. it's a bit of a pain this xmldoc stuff, I'll see what I can do
[12:20] <carlos> mvo, thank you very much
[12:20] <mvo> carlos: how did that work before btw? my layout didn't changed in quite a while
[12:21] <carlos> mvo, that's new for breezy, right?
[12:21] <carlos> mvo, we don't have any breezy version imported for synaptic I just detected it because an user asked me for synaptic
[12:21] <mvo> carlos: oh, ok
[12:26] <carlos> mvirkkil, thank you
[12:30] <mvo> can I just close auto-imported bugs from debian that do not affect our release-architectures? (we have two major bugs open that seems to only affect sparc)
[12:30] <ogra> pitti, are you sure you use the latest usplash (did you regenerate the initrd ?)
[12:32] <koke> mvo: BTW https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic fails :(
[12:32] <koke> I guess spanish translation is outdated
[12:33] <mvo> koke: yes, I send a mail to the administator of the machine
[12:33] <JaneW> BREEZYGOALS - are there any new status updates to the BreezyGoals? Some are still listed as WIP, even though the Preview Freeze is in 2 days time....
[12:34] <mvo> I want to have it in baz, but apparently the import keeps failing
[12:40] <koke> mvo: are you the current maintainter of gnome-app-install in gnome-cvs?
[12:41] <janimo> mdz, ping
[12:41] <mvo> koke: yes, but the current development is happening in baz
[12:41] <chmj> shackan: ping 
[12:41] <koke> mvo: I know, but translation is happening in cvs
[12:42] <mvo> koke: yes, that's pretty bad. I need to reimport the current code into cvs
[12:42] <koke> ok, but it's string freeze now, isn't it?
[12:43] <mvo> koke: yes
[12:46] <sivang> JaneW: did you get an update about lpint ?
[12:53] <LaschW> producer preinstalation framework? Are there any plans for a producer preinstallation framework for breezy which will be offererd to hardware vendors??
[12:54] <JaneW> sivang: no...
[12:55] <Diziet> mdz: ping
[12:55] <mvo> Diziet: he's probably sleeping
[12:57] <dholbach> ha... lunch :)
[12:58] <mvo> hmmm, lunch
[01:00] <Mithrandir> LaschW: yes.  OEMInstall
[01:01] <LaschW> Mitario: Ahh, thats what I'm looking for. Is there a place where I may find more infos?
[01:02] <LaschW> Mithrandir:  Ahh, thats what I'm looking for. Is there a place where I may find more infos?
[01:02] <Mithrandir> LaschW: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OEMInstaller is the spec
[01:05] <LaschW> Mithrandir: Thanks! Seems to be in a very early state?
[01:05] <Mithrandir> LaschW: it should be implemented, but I don't know if anybody has used it yet.
[01:05] <elmo> doko: ?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> LaschW: Colin Watson is the guy who've been working on it, he doesn't seem to be around now (I though he should be back today, but apparently not).  You might want to chat with him.
[01:06] <LaschW> Mithrandir: I'm discussing this with a hardware vendor in the moment. Seems that they are interested in such a tool.
[01:07] <Mithrandir> LaschW: excellent!  We're very much interested in getting into touch with vendors who want to preinstall Ubuntu.
[01:08] <LaschW> Mithrandir: Me too. I'm looking for a job and that might be a chance to get a foot on deck...
[01:08] <doko> elmo: pong
[01:09] <elmo> doko: is calling this package  python-pylib really appropriate?  it seems to stomp all over the python namespace
[01:10] <elmo> doko: and the README.Debian is kind of lame - I don't know if it ends up getting installed or not tho
[01:11] <slomo> elmo: any news with Mitario's, ivok's and my upload rights?
[01:13] <doko> elmo: the package is requested by salgado, I know, that whole package looks insane, no wonder that nobody did try to package it. it doesn't bloat the namespace however. each and every module is contained in the 'py' package, so you have to explicitely import 'py.*'
[01:13] <elmo> doko: sorry I don't mean python namespace, I really mean debian packaging namespace
[01:14] <elmo> slomo: I'll look at it when I'm caught up
[01:14] <ivoks> elmo: thanks
[01:15] <slomo> elmo: thanks :)
[01:15] <ivoks> now we are intrusive :)
[01:15] <doko> elmo: I don't know, how to name it else... the author writes about it as a bunch of useful stuff ... any other suggestions? (http://codespeak.net/py/current/doc/)
[01:16] <ogra> elmo, any idea why libxp doesnt show up in the archive ? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libx/libxp/ according to the logs it has built ages ago http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libx/libxp/6.2.0-0ubuntu1/
[01:17] <ogra> Kamion, !!
[01:17] <ogra> Kamion, congrats etc...
[01:17] <Kamion> hi, thanks
[01:17] <elmo> ogra: becuase siretart uploaded the source with a lower version than the current binaries
[01:17] <mvo> hey Kamion, welcome back!
[01:17] <Kamion> looks like I'll be spending the guts of today sorting through e-mail
[01:17] <ogra> argh
[01:18] <elmo>      libxp | 6.2.0-0ubuntu1 | breezy/universe | source
[01:18] <elmo>     libxp6 |   6.8.2-10 |         hoary | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[01:18] <siretart> whops
[01:18] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync scite from debian? 
[01:18] <ogra> heh
[01:18] <siretart> elmo: so I'll reupload with an epoch?
[01:18] <ivoks> siretart: you stilly man :)
[01:18] <elmo> siretart: a higher version number somehow; not sure if an epoch is appropriate or not
[01:18] <ogra> siretart, only with a higher number
[01:18] <elmo> epochs are for life, not just for christmas
[01:19] <ogra> evil
[01:19] <elmo> mvo: done
[01:19] <siretart> ah. ok. will do. sorry for the mess
[01:19] <mvo> elmo: thanks :)
[01:20] <doko> Mithrandir: OOo2 amd64 loads, but I only see the non-gnome skin, although the OOo2-gnome package is installed
[01:22] <Mithrandir> doko: what does ldd /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/libvclplug_gtk680li.so| grep -i found say?
[01:22] <siretart> elmo: could you please sync java-package (for more jdk supported) and arch-buildpackage (for better baz support) from unstable?
[01:25] <doko> Mithrandir: libcairo.so.2 => not found
[01:27] <ogra> Kamion, we'll have a lot to sort for the edubuntu CDs this week (just a warnig :) )
[01:27] <sivang> JaneW: besides two more packages, the spec is done - I updated the wiki page for it, you can look at it and see what's done. I mailed seb last week about the gimp, and I can take care of the other remaining package if this can expemt from FF
[01:28] <fabbione> Hey Kamion !
[01:28] <sivang> Kamion: YO! :)
[01:28] <sivang> Kamion: did you enjoy your vacation?
[01:29] <pvanhoof> Current rhythmbox is extremely unstable (in breezy)
[01:29] <pvanhoof> as in .. unusable unstable
[01:30] <Mithrandir> doko: weird; I wonder why it's trying to get libcairo2 for you; here it's libcairo1
[01:30] <Mithrandir> doko: I'll see if I can reproduce it
[01:31] <Kamion> ogra: sure
[01:31] <ogra> Kamion, :)
[01:31] <Kamion> sivang: definitely
[01:32] <doko> Mithrandir: old references to libcairo1? that one cannot be built anymore in breezy
[01:32] <Mithrandir> doko: so? :-)  It's still in ia32-libs, iirc
[01:32] <dholbach> have a nice day
[01:33] <sivang> Kamion: cool, btw - it seems we've figured the right flags to pass mkisofs for pSeries booting, I am going to test them when I get my local mirror complete. (currently downloading) the trouble is, I wasn't able where in CONF.sh I can add those..(talking about debian-cd)
[01:33] <dholbach> *wave*
[01:34] <ogra> hmm, damned, after dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` my ltsp server tries to netboot now.... something is very wrong here...
[01:34] <Kamion> sivang: not CONF.sh; just edit tools/boot/breezy/boot-powerpc
[01:36] <Mithrandir> doko: bingo, I see it too.  Thanks.
[01:37] <sivang> Kamion: set_mkisofs_opts file is also of no relevance ?
[01:38] <elmo> siretart: debian doesn't have a java-package newer than 0.24
[01:38] <elmo> 0.25 sorry
[01:38] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Cool, looks like missing driver.
[01:39] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please sync mercurial from Debian?  It seems to be missing in breezy.
[01:40] <elmo> Mithrandir: done
[01:40] <elmo> siretart: arch-buildpackage done
[01:40] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yeah, I figured it'd be something like that, but you know the code way better, so easier for you.
[01:40] <Mithrandir> elmo: excellent, thanks.
[01:41] <siretart> elmo: sorry, it is still in incoming.debian.org/java-package_0.26.dsc
[01:41] <siretart> I mixed up the debian dinstall run
[01:43] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Yup.  In the next version of two, I'm going to add a HACKING file with clearer instructions as to what's where.
[01:45] <elmo> siretart: done
[01:45] <sivang> Kamion: in boot-powerpc you have $N.mkisofs_opts , do you just echo the flags there as it seems from the script?
[01:45] <Mithrandir> doko: hmm, even with nothing missing, it doesn't look very good :-/
[01:46] <JaneW> sivang: ok thanks - did seb respond?
[01:46] <sivang> JaneW: not yet, he is on vacation IIRC
[01:47] <sivang> JaneW: should be back tommorow, IIRC :)
[01:47] <siretart> elmo: thank you very much. I owe you much more than a beer (or othere preferred beverage)!
[01:50] <Mithrandir> doko: does http://err.no/tmp/ia32-libs-gtk_7_amd64.deb fix it for you?
[01:51] <pitti> re
[01:51] <pitti> Hi Kamion, welcome back!
[01:51] <Diziet> Dammit, Debian's various gs 8's have crashy problems in ppc too.
[01:54] <Diziet> And I'm forgetting to have lunch.
[01:55] <Mithrandir> doko: if that fixes it for you, I'm going to upload that.
[01:55] <doko> Mithrandir: that does work, but I still see the white text on a grey ground. did you add the gtk themes, as martink suggested?
[01:55] <Mithrandir> doko: no, I didn't pay well enough attention; where was that?
[01:56] <Mithrandir> s/well/good/
[01:56] <doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/Screenshot.png
[01:56] <Kamion> sivang: right
[01:56] <doko> martink: what was your other suggestion with setting some environment variable?
[01:56] <Mithrandir> doko: the suggestion from martink, not the bug. :-)
[01:58] <doko> ahh, I think, adding the .so from the thinice(?) theme?, then he suggested setting a GTK_THEME_PATH variable (or something like that). I don't remember ...
[01:58] <Mithrandir> was it here, or somewhere else?
[01:59] <Mithrandir> here as in #ubuntu-devel
[01:59] <doko> here
[02:05] <Mithrandir> doko: yay, that fixed it.
[02:06] <doko> Mithrandir: nice :)
[02:07] <martink> clearlooks, not thinice ;)
[02:07] <Mithrandir> doko: uploading ia32-libs-gtk_7 now, please test and give feedback.
[02:07] <Mithrandir> martink: yeah, I picked clearlooks.
[02:11] <JaneW> BREEZYGOALS - are there any new status updates to the BreezyGoals? Some are still listed as WIP, even though the Preview Freeze is in 2 days time....
[02:13] <sivang> Kamion: k, thx
[02:19] <JaneW> pitti:  yeah yours are looking GOOD. :)
[02:19] <JaneW> pitti: in fact would you like some more? *run*
[02:20] <pitti> JaneW: I already have enough bugs, thanks :-)
[02:22] <mpt> pittti: Should the event-notifier idea described in http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-June/008392.html become a UBZ BoF? or is it already implemented/obsolete?
[02:22] <pitti> mpt: I would love to get a BoF for it
[02:23] <Mithrandir> guifications3  should be able to be a all-singing, all-dancing notification thingy.
[02:23] <Robot101> watch out for guifications, it might be on complete crack
[02:24] <JaneW> pitti: darn, ok
[02:24] <Mithrandir> Robot101: nah, grim is fairly sane and a good programmer.
[02:24] <Robot101> Mithrandir: it looks very overengineered for a "show foo to the user" system :P
[02:25] <Robot101> Mithrandir: I prefer the look of the libnotify/notification-daemon stuff
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Robot101: slightly, possibly.  But it's really cool, too.
[02:25] <Robot101> although I don't know what the fashion of the minute is in GNOME
[02:25] <Robot101> they're flaming about it I think
[02:29] <mpt> mmm, guifications looks nice (at least on the screenshot level)
[02:42] <mpt> more effective than trying to stuff notifications into a tiny panel, at least
[02:44] <Mithrandir> mpt: I wonder if notifications can be (ab)used for general system monitoring stuff as well; "your ~ is nearly full" and so on.
[02:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, YES !!!
[02:45] <mpt> Mithrandir: Definitely
[02:46] <ogra> but you can already do this with zenity ....
[02:46] <Mithrandir> mpt: but those should be visible for different users, and be some kind of sticky.
[02:46] <mpt> I've just been suffering that in OS X, which is throwing up alerts telling me my HD is nearly full when I'm in the middle of something mouse-intensive
[02:46] <ogra> it has notification opportunitys since ages
[02:46] <mpt> It's good that it's telling me, not so good that it's in an alert
[02:47] <sivang> Mithrandir: are you working on imelementing that ?
[02:47] <sivang> Mithrandir: sounds cool
[02:47] <mpt> Mac OS 8~9 used little yellow floating windows for things like that
[02:47] <Mithrandir> sivang: I'm just packaging guifications, I'm not a developer on it.
[02:47] <ogra> sivang, there are several frontends... whats missing is a backend
[02:48] <sivang> ogra: ah I see, and guifications is frontend to ?
[02:48] <ogra> zenity, guifications, notification-daemon, event-notifier....
[02:49] <lu|sleep> so, does n-m bounce the network like a cheap whore for anyone else?
[02:49] <ogra> all there waiting for your input :)
[02:49] <sivang> ogra: sure and they are all frontends to inotify?
[02:49] <ogra> NM
[02:49] <Mithrandir> sivang: guification is a framework for doing it.
[02:49] <ogra> sivang, what has inotify to do with that ? 
[02:49] <sivang> Mithrandir: k
[02:50] <sivang> ogra: you said those were all frontends, who's the backend?
[02:50] <ogra> sivang, inotify is a kernel interface...
[02:50] <ogra> [14:47]  <ogra> sivang, there are several frontends... whats missing is a backend
[02:50] <sivang> ogra: i know, I though those were used as frontends to that kenrel interface at thge backend
[02:50] <sivang> ogra: DoH ! :_
[02:50] <ogra> write one :) 
[02:50] <sivang> ogra: gotta learn to read between the lines...
[02:51] <sivang> ogra: gotta spec it first :)
[02:51] <ogra> something for UBZ then :)
[02:52] <sivang> ogra: so currently, what do they use as their current backends? (I mean, we do have some of them on our desktop)
[02:52] <ogra> sivang, whatever wants to send a notification to the user....
[02:53] <ogra> we dont have much yet on our desktop... 
[02:53] <ogra> the update-manager/notifier stuff, gnome-power uses it... i'm not aware of anything else currently
[02:54] <sivang> ogra: I see, so we need a unified backend that exposes the same API and request events, instead of waiting to recieve them?
[02:54] <ogra> they all have these backends
[02:55] <ogra> there is just not much what uses them
[02:55] <ogra> s/backends/APIs
[02:56] <ogra> sivang, we only need apps that feed them... 
[02:57] <mvo> ogra: pitts detection of additional usb audio hardware uses it too afaik
[02:57] <ogra> i.e. a diskwatcher app that monitors your disk via inotify and sends a warning to notification-daemon
[02:57] <ogra> at a certain amount of disk usage...
[02:58] <sivang> ogra:so  apps = backends?
[02:58] <ogra> mvo, oh, yes... i seldom change audio devices over here....
[02:58] <mvo> heh, same here
[02:58] <ogra> sivang, you got it :)
[02:59] <ogra> sivang, notification-daemon and friends are just tools waiting for input... but there is not much that feeds them...
[02:59] <ogra> and the final decision what wil enter upstream is still going on afaik
[03:00] <sivang> ogra: I'm dum, but when explained slowly I get things :)
[03:01] <lu|sleep> j^: have you had reports of network-manager taking the wireless connection down every few minutes? Just for a few seconds each time, but long enough to be spectacularly irritating
[03:01] <doko> mvo: apt-listchanges does segfault on amd64
[03:02] <mvo> doko: every time? or only in a minimal chroot?
[03:02] <infinity> doko : Same thing on i386, but he can't reproduce it.  It's also not apt-listchanges, but python2.4-gtk, afaict.
[03:02] <infinity> doko : I can segv with just "python ; import gtk"
[03:02] <j^> lu|sleep i read about that on the network-manager list, it might be a problem with some wifi cards, do you have an a/b/g card?
[03:03] <sivang> ogra:<simpletone mode> so we need a list of stuff most wanted by people that want to know about their systems, and seek implementation. </simpletone mode>
[03:03] <infinity> mvo : It's in my base system where it segfaults, in the minimal chroot, it hangs but doesn't die.
[03:03] <lu|sleep> j^: atheros, which I'm pretty sure has no g
[03:03] <lu|sleep> but I might be wrong on that
[03:03] <mvo> infinity: it does segfault on your normal install?
[03:03] <infinity> mvo : Yes.
[03:03] <j^> lu|sleep if you right click the applet and switch off scanning it should stop disconnecting
[03:03] <luis_> hrm
[03:03] <j^> right there are issues with atheros
[03:04] <mjg59> atheros can't scan while associated
[03:04] <infinity> mvo : Also, the core from that "import gtk" is just a few thousand lines of obviously very smashed stack, so not very helpful. :/
[03:04] <mjg59> So presumably it's decided that dropping the interface to scan is sensible
[03:04] <mjg59> Rather than, say, cracked in the head
[03:04] <luis_> I don't have the applet running, since it fails to find the system dbus (looks for it in my jhbuild root for some reason)
[03:05] <mvo> infinity: hrm, I can't reprdocue it on my two systems here (up-to-date breezy, upgraded today) :/
[03:05] <infinity> mvo : Want an ccount on a machine where it's happening?
[03:05] <j^> luis_ well you have to install dbus service files for NM
[03:05] <j^> in ubuntu that is in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/
[03:05] <j^> NetworkManager.conf and nm-applet.conf
[03:06] <mvo> infinity: maybe, probably
[03:06] <luis_> j^: they are installed; I assume you mean I can edit them to point at the proper system bus?
[03:07] <j^> luis_ right, if nm-applet can not talk to NM via dbus, your dbus instance might not have picked it up
[03:07] <j^> or you are not in the plugdev group
[03:08] <jdub> untz untz untz
[03:08] <jdub> hey hey j^
[03:08] <j^> hey jdub 
[03:08] <sivang> yo jdub 
[03:08] <j^> jdub http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=514
[03:09] <mjg59> If people could test that when it hits the archive, I would love them forever
[03:10] <jdub> mjg59: woo
[03:10] <jdub> mjg59: usplash looks a bit funny on my desktop
[03:11] <jdub> mjg59: non-black border (easy fix), also looks a bit uncentred
[03:11] <jdub> the border only appears at top and left
[03:11] <mjg59> jdub: Ok. I think we'll need to shift black to colour 0.
[03:11] <mvo> mjg59: it seems to be not working on my X30 (but it may be me)
[03:11] <mjg59> mvo: usplash?
[03:11] <mvo> mjg59: yes
[03:11] <sivang> jdub: I'm preparing a local mirror, when gonna try plunge tgall's flags into debian-cd and see waht comes out :)
[03:12] <jdub> mjg59: black or bg?
[03:12] <Mithrandir> jordi: is it on purpose that movemail isn't sgid mail?
[03:12] <mjg59> jdub: Background
[03:12] <jdub> sivang: cool
[03:12] <mvo> mjg59: I used to boot with vga=771, but I removed the vga line and I botted with 785 as welll without getting a splash
[03:12] <mjg59> mvo: You've installed usplash and regenerated your initramfs?
[03:13] <Mithrandir> pitti: would you be ok with movemail (in mailutils) installed sgid mail?  it's fairly useless without that bit.
[03:13] <j^> it works on my x30, but its only a 640x480 image on a 1024x768 screen
[03:14] <mjg59> j^: Yes, that's correct
[03:14] <j^> mjg59 its also small
[03:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: right; there was a recent vuln in that, but I asked for sync
[03:14] <mvo> mjg59: yes, usplash is 0.1-6 (as on my other machine where it works fine). I'm regenerating my initramfs again 
[03:14] <jdub> mjg59: also, i'm getting an error on the 'generating console font' thigny
[03:14] <ogra> j^, it uses vga16fb ....
[03:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's universe, though.
[03:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: and I haven't audited it, just asking first.
[03:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, but I don't care about universe :-)
[03:15] <pitti> well, at least not at the level I care for main
[03:15] <mjg59> j^: We either have small usplash or we have non-working suspend
[03:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: mpe.  :-)  I was more interested if you were going to run screaming away or if it was on the level of "sure, whatever". :-)
[03:15] <mjg59> jdub: Yes, I need to look into that
[03:15] <mvo> jdub: that error is reported as #14350
[03:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: the latter :)
[03:16] <ogra> j^, fix the heardware vendors ;)
[03:16] <ogra> hardware even
[03:16] <j^> mjg59 i am more interested in suspend(though i still use apm) than i am in a bootsplash
[03:17] <mvo> j^: acpi s3 works pretty well on the x30 these days
[03:17] <j^> thanks the the former i do not see the second that often
[03:17] <jdub> mvo: aha!
[03:17] <j^> mvo better than apm?
[03:17] <mvo> j^: I think so, yes. 2.6.12 comes back very quickly from sleep. you need to pass acpi_sleep=s3_bios on the kernel commandline though
[03:18] <mvo> mjg59: should #14350 be assinged to you?
[03:18] <j^> mvo no problems with broken X after resume?
[03:18] <j^> no hang every 10th suspend?
[03:19] <mvo> j^: no, I used it daily, travel with it etc. works really well in my experience
[03:19] <j^> i think its suspend with ethernet cable, resume without. bang!
[03:20] <zul> what kind of network cable?
[03:20] <zul> grrrr...network card
[03:20] <mjg59> mvo: It's a duplicate
[03:21] <j^> zul e100
[03:21] <jordi> Mithrandir: could be an oversight from the move to cddbs
[03:21] <j^> but it works right now with apm
[03:21] <jordi> can you fil a bug?
[03:23] <Mithrandir> jordi: it appears that it can call out to dotlock, but doesn't.
[03:23] <Mithrandir> jordi: (which is sgid mail)
[03:23] <jordi> is this 0.6.90?
[03:24] <Mithrandir> yes.
[03:24] <Mithrandir> (or, 1:0.6.90-1)
[03:25] <jordi> hmm, -2 should have important fixes for imap4d
[03:25] <jordi> just for the record :)
[03:25] <Mithrandir> jordi: ok; so we want to sync that?
[03:26] <jordi> let me check something.
[03:26] <jordi> is MU in breezy, or universe?
[03:26] <pitti> jordi: both :-)
[03:27] <Mithrandir> jordi: universe
[03:27] <jordi> i meant main :)
[03:27] <jordi> Mithrandir: -2 should be good
[03:27] <jordi> I seem to have -3 unreleased with a related fix for the testsuite, but it's not important
[03:28] <Mithrandir> hm, should we wait for that?
[03:28] <jordi> I could upload right away.
[03:28] <jordi> +  * debian/patches/05_imap4d_bad_uid.patch: fix the imap4d testsuite to
[03:28] <jordi> +    match the uid behaviour.
[03:29] <jordi> it's just this
[03:29] <Mithrandir> ok, goodie.  And then please get it synced. :-)
[03:29] <jordi> I'll say here
[03:33] <jordi> Mithrandir: why do you say movemail should be sgid?
[03:33] <Mithrandir> jordi: how is it going to dotlock else?
[03:40] <jdub> I HATE THE LINUX AUDIO STACK
[03:40] <jdub> LET US BURN IT INTO THE GROUND
[03:40] <lu|away> get thee to a real desktop OS
[03:40] <jdub> AND LET A BEAUTIFUL PHOENIX RISE
[03:40] <ogra> jdub, complain at pitti ;)
[03:40] <jdub> no, it's not his fault
[03:40] <jordi> oh dude
[03:40] <jdub> too many people shitting in the swamp for just one man
[03:40] <jordi> I'm out of here
[03:40] <jdub> (even if that man is the inimitable pitti)
[03:40] <ogra> jdub, sure, he didnt rewrite it :)
[03:41] <jordi> Mithrandir: yeah
[03:41] <Treenaks> Wasn't ALSA supposed to be this phoenix?
[03:41] <pitti> jdub: THEN GIVE US SOMETHING SANE, DUDE
[03:41] <pitti> Treenaks: in a century, maybe
[03:41] <Treenaks> pitti: urgh
[03:41] <jordi> Treenaks: let's say it's taking some time to rise :)
[03:41] <pitti> Treenaks: in fact it works quite well on the cards where it works at all
[03:41] <pitti> Treenaks: unfortunately there are too many cards it doesn't work on...
[03:42] <j^> mvo my x30 does not sleep if i press Fn-F4
[03:42] <j^> and with acpi the disk is checkted even without power
[03:42] <Treenaks> pitti: nice
[03:42] <j^> mjg59 is it a known problem that uspalsh goes away at the time / is mounted?
[03:42] <pitti> j^: see ubuntu-devel, happens to several people
[03:43] <lu|away> gah.
[03:43] <bddebian> Hello
[03:45] <mjg59> j^: Make sure you have the latest lsb-base
[03:45] <mvo> j^: hm, workf here (Fn-F4)
[03:47] <j^> sudo /etc/acpi/sleep.sh also does nothing
[03:48] <mvo> j^: oh, please have a look at /etc/defaults/acpi-support 
[03:48] <j^> mjg59 lsb-base is 3.0-1ubuntu4
[03:48] <mvo> there should be a ACPI_SLEEP=true in it
[03:51] <jdub> j^: eh, rock! next stop, motu land! :)
[03:53] <j^> mvo that helps indeed :)
[03:53] <mvo> j^: :)
[04:01] <pitti> Hi jbailey 
[04:01] <jbailey> Heya Martin
[04:01] <pitti> jbailey: "testhaus"?
[04:02] <jbailey> pitti: my ia64 box is hosted at a university in Toronto, and that's the DNS name the sysadmin gave it.
[04:02] <lamont-away> wb Kamion 
[04:02] <pitti> jbailey: sounds German :-)
[04:02] <pitti> Hi lamont-away 
[04:02] <jbailey> pitti: I IRC from there when I might be rebooting a bunch so that I can run it in screen.
[04:03] <jbailey> pitti: He might be.  Generally Russ and I speak French. =)
[04:03] <Diziet> Is there anyone here who knows about alignment constraints on ppc ?
[04:03] <jbailey> Diziet: To what level of detail?
[04:04] <Diziet> The compiler aligns a jmp_buf to 16 bytes.  Is that necessary ?  An optimisation ?
[04:05] <jbailey> Diziet: I think 16 byte alignment is required for altivec things.
[04:06] <jbailey> So it's convenient to just do it all the time to save handling it if you're going through an altivec routine.
[04:06] <Diziet> The gs source code (all versions AFAICT) makes (according to a comment) the assumption that sizeof(a struct containing a couple of shorts and a pointer has) % alignof(jmp_buf) == 0.
[04:06] <jbailey> Err..  Have to ask doko to be sure - I didn't think there was a promise ever on struct size, just starting pointer...
[04:07] <Diziet> The sizeof that struct is 8.
[04:07] <Diziet> (according to gcc and gdb on davis's breezy chroot).  The alignof jmp_buf is 16.  So gs's assumption is false and the algorithm breaks.
[04:09] <Diziet> I haven't looked at the gs code in enough detail (yet) to see if it really makes the assumption claimed in the comment.  It's quite complex.  But, there are at least two separate comments saying the same thing.
[04:10] <jbailey> Diziet: Are they intentionally padding the struct somehow, or just hoping that nothing ever needs more than 8 byte alignment?
[04:10] <Diziet> Hoping, AFAICT.
[04:10] <Diziet> The 8-byte struct has a big union in it but none of the things in the union is a jmp_buf.
[04:11] <Diziet> I can't see anything resembling a coherent justification for this assumption.
[04:11] <Kamion> sivang: jdub referred me to the specification for /ppc/bootinfo.txt, so I'm adding that file to the CD images now
[04:12] <Kamion> sivang: and the -chrp-boot mkisofs option, too. Do you have anything else I need to add?
[04:12] <Diziet> The alignof jmp_buf is only relevant because jmp_buf is one of the things which can appear in some other giant union.  I think the assumption was probably reasonable before jmp_buf was added to that other union.
[04:12] <jbailey> Diziet: What are they doing that requires them to know about the struct's alignment?
[04:12] <jbailey> Seems like a strange requirement.
[04:13] <jbailey> Or is just for feeding stuff into the union across multiple structs or something?
[04:13] <Diziet> It has some very fancy memory management.  Justifiable in a PostScript interpreter, I think - I just wish they'd got it right.
[04:14] <jdub> Kamion: ok, so you have the yaboot.chrp (addnoted)?
[04:14] <Diziet> There's something odd going on here, actually.  I can't remember the exact rules but I thought the alignment constraints were supposed to be identical for all structs.
[04:14] <jdub> Kamion: do we have both 32 and 64 bit kernels on the install disk?
[04:15] <jdub> i guess that'd be pretty huge, with modules and all
[04:15] <Kamion> jdub: yes, we have both, and yaboot is always 32-bit
[04:16] <jdub> don't want to boot the appropriate one?
[04:16] <Kamion> the addnote thing is a bit difficult at the moment since there's no addnote binary available on i386; would require some weird hacking
[04:16] <Kamion> the appropriate what?
[04:16] <jdub> 32 or 64 bit kernel
[04:16] <jdub> maybe this is a suse hack
[04:16] <Kamion> we don't attempt that on any architecture at the moment
[04:16] <jdub> their yaboot will happily choose
[04:16] <Kamion> sounds like a SuSE hack, ytes
[04:16] <Kamion> yes
[04:17] <jdub> image[64bit] =inst64
[04:17] <jdub>   label=install
[04:17] <jdub> etc
[04:17] <Kamion> no support for that in our yaboot to my knowledge
[04:17] <Diziet> No, in fact I'm wrong about structs.
[04:17] <jdub> suse have so much crack
[04:18] <jdub> tgall said they have some kind of console detection patch in their kernel too
[04:18] <Kamion> that would be a useful thing to grab for our yaboot, probably
[04:18] <Kamion> but not critical, so I think probably post-breezy
[04:20] <jdub> yeah
[04:20] <mjg59> Kamion: Hey 
[04:20] <Kamion> sivang: -chrp-boot and /ppc/bootinfo.txt stuff committed to my debian-cd arch repository
[04:20] <mjg59> Kamion: You've seen the bug report about the weird Toshiba that has Intel SATA RAID by default?
[04:20] <hunger> Any chance of getting kernel 2.6.13 into breezy?
[04:20] <pitti> hunger: nope
[04:20] <mjg59> hunger: No
[04:21] <mjg59> hunger: What's in 2.6.13 that you want?
[04:21] <hunger> Too bad... then I have to stick with custom kernels for a while longer.
[04:21] <Kamion> mjg59: #13506?
[04:21] <fabbione> hunger: what do you need from .13?
[04:21] <hunger> Longest Uptime I got with 2.6.12 is about 3h...
[04:21] <fabbione> you didn't answer the question..
[04:22] <Kamion> mjg59: I kind of failed to understand the bug, possibly because I have 900 other mails ;)
[04:22] <hunger> fabbione: And that is with your breezy kernel which is *way* more stable than the vanila 2.6.12 for me.
[04:22] <fabbione> hunger: and did you file a bug?
[04:22] <mjg59> jkamYeah
[04:22] <fabbione> do you get OOPS'es?
[04:22] <Kamion> sivang: next CD images will have that, too
[04:22] <fabbione> hunger: are you using binary modules?
[04:22] <hunger> fabbione: I guess TG3 and SATA fixes.
[04:23] <zul> hunger: hell no
[04:23] <mjg59> Kamion: Oops. Yeah.
[04:23] <fabbione> hunger: i use TG3 and SATA here...
[04:23] <hunger> fabbione: I am doing so with my 2.6.13 kernel, but not with the breezy one.
[04:23] <zul> hunger: same here
[04:23] <fabbione> hunger:  16:23:32 up 9 days,  8:58,  9 users,  load average: 2.91, 3.88, 4.00
[04:23] <fabbione> hunger: and no problem at all
[04:23] <hunger> fabbione: I do not know what makes 2.6.13 work better!
[04:24] <mjg59> Kamion: It's got an Intel BIOS that (by default) does SATA RAIDing
[04:24] <mjg59> Kamion: So presumably the disk has some magic header 
[04:24] <doko> Mithrandir: what about adding a dependency on lib32gcj6 in ia32-libs-openoffice.org ?
[04:24] <mjg59> Kamion: It seems that we're not dealing with that. I guess it's something that device-mapper should be recognising
[04:25] <j^> Diziet at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=514 / http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ i have new NM packages
[04:25] <hunger> fabbione: If I'd know what was wrong I'd have tried to fix it... or at least filed bugreports.
[04:25] <mjg59> Kamion: As a result the partitioner isn't useful
[04:25] <j^> there is some confusion about if and what the right way would be to get them into universe
[04:26] <Kamion> mjg59: that or parted, I suppose
[04:26] <Diziet> So you know we've given up on n-m for Breezy main ?  We're still planning to have it in Breezy+1.
[04:26] <ogra> j^, no confusion... i just dont want to break stuff in advance :)
[04:26] <mjg59> Kamion: Well, the partitions inside the RAID ought to look pretty normal
[04:26] <Diziet> And I don't think that one will want BIND9.  It'll probably use some combination of resolvconf, dnsmasq and dbus.
[04:26] <j^> ogra the last 4 days i was told to go the motu route. what you bring up now is at best confusion
[04:26] <ogra> j^, to make sure that doesnt happen you and Diziet should coordinate your work :)
[04:27] <j^> Diziet what is your current plan for NM?
[04:27] <ogra> j^, sorry i had network probs the last week, i wasnt always around... who told you that ?
[04:27] <Diziet> My current plan is to ignore it while we're in the middle of the Breezy crunch, but that's not what you meant :-).
[04:27] <Lathiat> ogra: oh you got your dsl fixed? ;p
[04:27] <j^> ogra jdub, slomo and others
[04:28] <ogra> Lathiat, its still not suitable to upload iso images :)
[04:28] <Lathiat> ogra: heh
[04:28] <jbailey> ~[6~[6~[6~/win 7
[04:28] <jbailey> Feh
[04:28] <Lathiat> jbailey: dont you hate that
[04:28] <Lathiat> jbailey: damn paste detection
[04:28] <ogra> jdub, ?
[04:28] <jdub> ogra: yeah
[04:28] <jdub> ogra: what's the confusion here?
[04:29] <Lathiat> so.. i have a 5 page document from customs all of them telling me i owe them money... yet not anywhere can i see where to actually send said money
[04:29] <pitti> ah, seb128 seems to be back :-)
[04:29] <ogra> jdub, j^  works on a vanilla NM package he wants to get into universe... i know that the package we'll have in main in breezy+1 will have quite intrusive changes... i try to get both worlds together now
[04:29] <ogra> jdub, Diziet is working on it for main
[04:29] <jdub> ogra: i can't see why we'd have intrusive changes, personally
[04:29] <jdub> but regardless,
[04:30] <jdub> j^ has done extremely awesome work
[04:30] <jdub> it should be in universe
[04:30] <Diziet> So re n-m, the idea /I/ have is that in Breezy+1 we'll be using n-m and dnsmasq.  resolv.conf will mention only the local dnsmasq and n-m will drive dnsmasq somehow (either resolvconf or dbus).
[04:30] <infinity> Diziet : How do you propose to get bind9's network views (for VPNs and such) without using bind9?
[04:30] <ogra> jdub, might be... but can you guarantee that a breezy+1 version Diziet reworked for us wont break all network setups out there ? 
[04:30] <jdub> Diziet: i don't think dnsmasq buys us anything
[04:30] <Diziet> It buys us not having BIND9.
[04:30] <jdub> ogra: no, but that doesn't matter
[04:31] <Lathiat> Diziet: but you add dnsmasq
[04:31] <j^> bind9 is in main
[04:31] <jdub> Diziet: that is not useful
[04:31] <Diziet> dnsmasq has some simple support for sending different queries to different places, AFAIAA.
[04:31] <Diziet> Not having BIND9 isn't useful ?
[04:31] <ogra> jdub, its still scheduled for breezy+1 so i'm carefull about such stuff
[04:31] <infinity> Diziet : What do you fear from bind9?
[04:31] <jdub> ogra: there's no need - it's in universe
[04:31] <Diziet> I've seen the source.  300kloc !
[04:31] <j^> if dnsmasq it would have to be the dbus enabled version which is currently worked on
[04:31] <ogra> jdub, exactly... ;)
[04:31] <j^> resolvconf is out again
[04:31] <Lathiat> ogra: why shouldnt we have working network-manager packages now for unvierse, just because we have plans for breezy+1...
[04:31] <j^> i do not see any place for resolvconf
[04:32] <jdub> ogra: we ought to get it in now, get people who care to test it in preparation
[04:32] <Diziet> I don't have an opinion about resolvconf vs dbus atm.  resolvconf did seem slightly less edificial.
[04:32] <ogra> Lathiat, i dont say we shouldnt have them, i say plaese coordinate the work between universe and main
[04:32] <siretart> Diziet: do you have any and if yes, what objections do you have about j^'s package for universe?
[04:32] <Lathiat> j^: so that your 127.0.0.1 isnt broken by some other package updating it
[04:32] <ogra> jdub, i'm not opposed to that... i'm just missing communication
[04:32] <Diziet> Do I have any what ?
[04:32] <Lathiat> since afaict pretty myuch everything usefull in debian suppots resolvconf
[04:33] <ogra> Diziet, objections
[04:33] <Diziet> OIC.
[04:33] <Diziet> The standard way that resolvconf is supposed to work is totally broken.  You can't update resolv.conf on the fly like that and expect it to work.  All of that stuff about going and poking various applications is never going to get all of them and the result will just be flakey.
[04:33] <Diziet> But that doesn't mean we can't use it as an interface to drive dnsmasq.
[04:34] <jdub> Diziet: upstream have chosen to use bind for very good, thoroughly well discussed reasons
[04:34] <jdub> tossing bind (which will be the maximally tested configuration) for religious reasons is not all that sensible
[04:34] <Diziet> I haven't looked at j^'s package for universe.  Are you asking me to review it ?  The real question is how badly things will break if and when we do something different in Breezy+1.
[04:34] <jdub> (i trust bind9 more than i trust other dns servers)
[04:35] <Diziet> jdub: I don't have time to get into BIND9 vs. XYZ right now.
[04:35] <jdub> if we need to do something different in breezy+1 (and i guarantee you n-m will be changing in the mean time anyway), we can say:
[04:35] <jdub> a) n-m was in universe so we don't have to support upgrade issues
[04:36] <jdub> b) it's unlikely we're going to change anything that would effect the user-side configuration anyway
[04:36] <jdub> so stonewalling on putting it in *universe* for breezy seems like pointless wheel-spinning
[04:37] <siretart> Diziet: if you are intersted, j^ package can be seen here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=514 
[04:37] <Diziet> I'm new here; the reason I'm hesitating giving my blessing is because I don't know really what the policy is.  Bear with me a moment while I get a handle on things, please ?
[04:38] <siretart> I think we should either remove n-m from breezy/universe now or take j^ updated package
[04:38] <ogra> siretart++
[04:38] <Diziet> n-m in breezy/universe atm is pretty damn broken, certainly.
[04:38] <siretart> Diziet: sorry. I didn't want to do any preassure on you. take as much time you need to review and consider all opinions
[04:39] <eruin> will gtk 2.8.3 make it into breezy?
[04:39] <elmo> hmm, someone upgrading from hoary is going to download oo1 from universe; I wonder if that's desirable and/or fixable
[04:39] <Kamion> it's true that it's officially Not A Problem (i.e. not release-critical) if upgrades from stuff formerly in universe fail; OTOH I'd still consider it a bug for that to happen, and I think it would depend on the severity of the upgrade breakage
[04:39] <elmo> eruin: if it's part of gnome 2.12, it will, yes
[04:39] <jdub> underneath all of this is the continuing in-development nature of n-m - things *will* change
[04:40] <Kamion> i.e. if it's breakage that tells you that the upgrade isn't supported and you need to do stuff by hand, fine; if it silently breaks and clobbers lots of stuff, not so fine
[04:40] <Diziet> k: Would we prefer the current pretty broken situation to it at least sort of working in universe how even if that means breaking it later ?
[04:40] <eruin> elmo, okay, I was wondering because of bug #14251, which is solved in 2.8.3
[04:40] <Diziet> k: Oh, right.  Well we can probably turn any hideous breaking into a dialogue :-).
[04:41] <jdub> Diziet: there is no solid indication that it will break for breezy+1
[04:41] <Kamion> Diziet: to a large extent it's up to the universe maintainers, but I think they're quite entitled to say that they want either something that works or nothing rather than a broken thing
[04:41] <Kamion> I have no opinion on whether we should have something that works or nothing other than to note that the latter will probably generate more whinemail :-)
[04:42] <Kamion> s/works/sort of works/g
[04:42] <Diziet> jdub: Indeed so, but I don't want to be spending lots of effort in breezy+1 working out a smooth transition.
[04:42] <Diziet> k: :-).
[04:42] <jdub> Diziet: you're assuming breakage
[04:42] <Diziet> I've been working on software for some years.  Yes, I do assume breakage :-).
[04:43] <jdub> hunger: it uses it to seed configuration
[04:43] <j^> hunger thats breezy+1 so..
[04:43] <jdub> Diziet: you're assuming it in an unproductive way
[04:43] <hunger> jdub: Yeap... but not too well so far.
[04:43] <jdub> j^ has done an excellent job creating these packages
[04:43] <jdub> they work really nicely
[04:43] <jdub> getting them tested during breezy lifecycle will be a huge benefit
[04:43] <Diziet> But, I think the discussion has produced a clear answer in my mind, anyway: I don't have an objection to the MOTU's putting j^'s package in breezy universe.
[04:44] <Kamion> I don't think we (i.e. Canonical staff) should be spending lots of time now reviewing stuff for universe that we know isn't going to make it into main for breezy
[04:44] <Diziet> k: Quite so.
[04:44] <jdub> anything we change below the user-side configuration is probably not going to have an enormous effect anyway, assuming we don't do insane things
[04:44] <Kamion> if the general approach seems to be tenable, letting the MOTUs get on with it is much better than spending time on code review
[04:44] <hunger> jdub: My dozend WLAN keys in /e/n/i is confusing NM a tiny little bit;-)
[04:45] <Kamion> maybe with the odd check that whatever approach is being taken isn't digging us into an enormous pit we can't get out of somehow later
[04:45] <jdub> hunger: i was under the impression they would be ignored
[04:45] <Diziet> k: Right.
[04:45] <j^> hunger editing /e/n/i by hand to get your keys in was never supported by ubuntu anyway
[04:45] <jdub> Kamion: (j^'s work is fully inline with what upstream are doing)
[04:45] <Diziet> jdub/ogra/j^/etc.> Is that all you want from me now ?  I'd like to get back to cursing GhostScript.
[04:45] <hunger> j^: Yeap... Basically WLAN was never supported.
[04:46] <Kamion> jdub: I hadn't checked so didn't want to assume any particular approach; I was trying to stick to generalities rather than getting into the detail of n-m
[04:46] <hunger> jdub: Yeap... but "mappings" does confuse NM.
[04:46] <jdub> ahr
[04:46] <jdub> yeah
[04:46] <siretart> ogra: ?
[04:46] <ogra> Kamion, jdub, Diziet, all i was requesting before even thinking about including j^'s package was that at least the main maintainer and the universe maintaine have talked with each other, i didnt want a review or anything... MOTU can handle that themselves ;)
[04:47] <hunger> jdub: Expecially when the mapping is using a iwlist scan result;-)
[04:47] <ogra> i just hate duplicate work... 
[04:47] <ogra> ...through missing communication...
[04:47] <jdub> ogra: unfortunately, we duplicated j^'s work for a while there too :-) so now we're pretty much sorted, i hope
[04:48] <ogra> yup
[04:48] <Diziet> ogra: Right, that's sensible.  And thanks for bringing it up.
[04:49] <ogra> ha ha 
[04:50] <jdub> Migrating old dbus init symlinks to runlevel 12 ...
[04:50] <jdub> update-rc.d: /etc/init.d/dbus exists during rc.d purge (continuing)
[04:50] <jdub> uh oh
[04:50] <jdub> may we live in interesting times
[04:50] <ogra> err, EWRONGWIN
[04:50] <pitti> elmo: can I please have the gnumeric build deps in concordia's breezy?
[04:52] <sivang> do we have a community council meeting today?
[04:53] <Lathiat> sivang: yes in about 5 hours
[04:53] <Lathiat> Tue Aug 30 14:53:17 UTC 2005
[04:53] <Lathiat> err, 7 ?
[04:53] <Lathiat> no, 5
[04:54] <jbailey> Lathiat: Pick a timezone, any timezone. =)
[04:54] <Lathiat> mine, 4am :(
[04:55] <sivang> Lathiat: k, thanks
[04:55] <elmo> pitti: done
[04:55] <pitti> elmo: thanks
[05:04] <mdz> janimo: yes?
[05:05] <mdz> Diziet: yes?
[05:05] <fabbione> mdz: /j #ubuntu-kernel please
[05:05] <mdz> morning
[05:05] <fabbione> morning :)
[05:05] <janimo> mdz, sent mail to u-d, regarding /usr/bin/which in usplash integration in lsb-scripts
[05:05] <janimo> mdz, it's not in the path but called as which so it generates errors on the screen
[05:05] <Diziet> mdz: Hello.  Just wanted to talk to you about gs; things have moved on a bit.
[05:06] <mdz> janimo: works fine here
[05:06] <Diziet> I've found what I think is the problem afflicting all ppc gs's.
[05:06] <mdz> janimo: with which init script are you having problems?
[05:07] <Diziet> Seeing that even Debian's gs-gpl 8 crashed showed that the diffs were a red herring.  Presumably our gs-esp 8 only works by chance.
[05:07] <janimo> hmm, I am not sure the errors were pointing to /lib/lsb/init-functions or something
[05:07] <janimo> lines looking like if which usplash >/dev/null .....fi
[05:07] <mdz> Kamion: welcome back
[05:07] <janimo> and which not being found
[05:08] <janimo> I updated usplash and lsb-init and initramfs as mjg59 asked
[05:09] <janimo> I am not fully dist-upgraded so maybe some scripts are not uptodate then if you say it works for you
[05:10] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, this'll presumably be stuff that gets run before /usr is mounted?
[05:10] <mjg59> janimo: You have /usr on a separate partition?
[05:10] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[05:10] <mjg59> pitti: hal doesn't send acpi events
[05:10] <pitti> mjg59: do you use a python client?
[05:10] <mjg59> pitti: In fact, none of the addons ever seem to run properly
[05:10] <janimo> mhg59, nope
[05:11] <mjg59> janimo: What shell is /bin/sh ?
[05:11] <janimo> bash
[05:11] <mjg59> Uhm. Which is a bash builtin.
[05:11] <janimo> hmm
[05:11] <janimo> I thought it would call which form debianutils
[05:11] <mjg59> pitti: Uh. This is running hald in verbose mode and lshal monitoring
[05:12] <janimo> then I am not sure why this happens.
[05:12] <mjg59> pitti: If you stop acpid, restart hal and then press the power button, you should get a hal event
[05:12] <pitti> mjg59: ok, because python clients are broken atm
[05:12] <mdz> mjg59: yes, it should probably handle it more gracefully
[05:12] <janimo> If it reoccurs I'll try debugging it I won;t be on this machine for about a week
[05:13] <mdz> mjg59: I'm not particularly interested in doing a dance to try to make it work on systems with a separate /usr
[05:13] <mdz> pitti: morning
[05:13] <pitti> mjg59: you mean, you monitor with dbus-monitor, not lshal? or you compare lshal before and after?
[05:13] <janimo> mjg59, when I say which in bash it calls /usr/bin/which
[05:13] <mdz> mjg59: I didn't think which was a bash builtin
[05:13] <mjg59> janimo: Oh, ups. Sorry, I'm running zsh.
[05:13] <Kamion> mdz: hiya
[05:13] <janimo> mdz,mjg59 it's not a separate partition
[05:14] <mdz> janimo: <mdz> janimo: with which init script are you having problems?
[05:14] <Kamion> mjg59: which is definitely not a bash builtin; look at /usr/bin/which to see how to do it in portable sh ...
[05:14] <mdz> janimo: I'm asking which init scripts are producing the errors
[05:14] <janimo> but in the lsb-functions scripts I see other binaries in /usr/bin are called from there explicitely only which isn't
[05:14] <mdz> janimo: many init scripts mangle the PATH
[05:14] <Kamion> mjg59: often, 'type' is good enough, and you don't need anything more complex
[05:15] <mdz> janimo: those hardcoded paths in there are bugs
[05:15] <Kamion> mjg59: (type is portable as long as you avoid weirder options)
[05:15] <mdz> I'm just not fixing them until after the release
[05:15] <mjg59> pitti: Well, dbus-monitor shows nothing either
[05:15] <janimo> mdz, I don't know which initscripts called lsb-functions I didn;t look
[05:15] <janimo> as I said they may not be uptodate if it works for you
[05:15] <mjg59> pitti: If I run hald in verbose mode, I get output whenever the battery status changes. I don't get output when I push a button
[05:15] <mdz> janimo: they all do.  I'm asking which ones printed errors.
[05:15] <Kamion> mjg59: (I usually do 'if type foo >/dev/null 2>&1; then ...; fi'
[05:15] <Kamion> )
[05:16] <mdz> janimo: I haven't made any changes which would cause a change in that
[05:16] <janimo> I mean I don;t know which printed the errors ;)
[05:16] <mjg59> Kamion: Heh. This is mdz's code :)
[05:16] <mdz> janimo: could you find out, please?
[05:16] <pitti> mjg59: hm, has that ever worked, i. e. is a recent regression?
[05:16] <janimo> Ok I'll reboot and try to look
[05:16] <mjg59> pitti: It's supposed to work
[05:16] <janimo> back in 10 minutes
[05:16] <mdz> janimo: thanks
[05:16] <mjg59> pitti: Otherwise gnome-power-manager can't work
[05:16] <pitti> mjg59: for testing, how can I stop the power button from shutting down my machine?
[05:17] <mjg59> pitti: Stop acpid
[05:17] <pitti> ah, ok
[05:17] <mjg59> pitti: You'll then need to restart hal, because it will have bound to the acpid socket rather than /proc/acpi/event
[05:20] <ogra> pitti, cant you just press your lid button ?
[05:21] <pitti> ogra: I mean on my desktop; my laptop will sleep on power button/lid, but of course I can stop pbbuttonsd there and test it on powerpc as well
[05:22] <mjg59> I've no idea whether hal is supposed to deal with button press events on PPC
[05:22] <pitti> guys, I need some minutes to finish the gnumeric security update, I will test that later
[05:24] <mdz> Diziet: so you're saying we don't actually want the new gs-esp now?
[05:24] <JaneW> BREEZYGOALS - Please update the status on any BreezyGoals which have made progress in the past week. Some are still listed as WIP, even though the Preview Freeze is in 2 days time.... 
[05:27] <Diziet> mdz: I think that's right.  I'm doing some tests on my new build and will let you know later.
[05:29] <janimo> mdz, I couldn't reproduce :(. Usplash bails out after battery checking but no sign of which errors as last time
[05:29] <janimo> I get instead if it's any use /init: line 89 chmod not found on one of the last lines
[05:30] <mdz> janimo: I don't know what the problem is, then
[05:30] <mdz> but it isn't your PATH
[05:31] <ogra> i get the same here... i think jbailey said something about the chmod stuff yesterday
[05:31] <janimo> I probably need a full dist-upgrade
[05:31] <ivoks> no one has problems with ACPI since update today?
[05:31] <fabbione> elmo: pcre3_4.5-1.1ubuntu0.5.04_sparc.changes UNACCEPT <-
[05:31] <fabbione> elmo: sorry but i am not sure i can do anything for it
[05:31] <elmo> I've just killed it anyway
[05:32] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[05:32] <fabbione> is there anything else i need to do?
[05:32] <fabbione> i am not even sure why i get it...
[05:32] <pitti> fabbione: this was very odd - it arrived quite late, and then I couldn't release it
[05:32] <elmo> no, nothing you need to do
[05:32] <fabbione> elmo: ok thanks
[05:32] <elmo> fabbione: you get it because that part of dak sucks
[05:32] <mdz> elmo: did you find out what was happening with arch: all builds?
[05:32] <elmo> and having it spam the maintainer forces us to fix it ;)
[05:32] <elmo> mdz: yes, it got broke by the change in architecture; I've fixed it
[05:32] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[05:33] <fabbione> elmo: ahahah
[05:33] <elmo> tho, with a 30min cron.daily the spam goes from mildly irritating to rude and unpleasant
[05:33] <fabbione> elmo: i didn't get that mail so often....
[05:34] <fabbione> only 4/5 times probably...
[05:34] <elmo> oh, that's because you were only getting it when pitti tried to amber it
[05:34] <fabbione> and i recall it from a couple of days ago...
[05:34] <fabbione> ahh
[05:34] <pitti> fabbione: oh, sorry :-/
[05:34] <elmo> but non-security uploads UNACCEPTS _will_ happen every 30 mins
[05:34] <fabbione> so it has been ambered or did you just kill it?
[05:34] <elmo> so they make lamont cry
[05:34] <fabbione> pitti: don't worry dude...
[05:34] <elmo> I killed it, it's obsoleted by a newer source security upload
[05:34] <fabbione> elmo: perfect.. thanks
[05:35] <pitti> fabbione: interesting ways to send you mail :-)
[05:35] <fabbione> pitti: via amber? ;)
[05:35] <pitti> yes
[05:35] <fabbione> pitti: it was enough the crack :
[05:35] <fabbione> )
[05:35] <pitti> fabbione: do you always get mail when I release sparc updates?
[05:36] <fabbione> pitti: yes.. i get the ACCPTED message that usually i don't care to read
[05:39] <mjg59> ivoks: What sort of problem?
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/debootstrap/breezy-amd64: line 3: finddebs_style: command not found
[05:40] <mdz> Kamion: is that important?
[05:40] <ivoks> mjg59: hal-addon-acpi lock /proc/acpi/event
[05:40] <ivoks> mjg59: and acpid can't start cause of that
[05:40] <pitti> mjg59: doesn't work in hoary either
[05:41] <mjg59> ivoks: Interesting.
[05:41] <ivoks> mjg59: s/lock/locks/
[05:41] <mjg59> pitti: No, that doesn't surprise me
[05:41] <pitti> mjg59: well, hal 0.5.4 has tons of bug fixes and also ACPI updates
[05:41] <mjg59> pitti: But it's *supposed* to
[05:41] <pitti> mjg59: I will try it
[05:42] <mjg59> ivoks: Now, that's interesting.
[05:42] <mjg59> ivoks: Do you still have hal-addon-acpi running?
[05:42] <ivoks> mjg59: yes... locking event :)
[05:42] <mjg59> ivoks: And what version of hal?
[05:42] <mjg59> ivoks: We're currently discussing the problem that this doesn't seem to work for anyone else
[05:42] <ogra> pitti, there was no functional code in hoary for acpi/hal stuff
[05:42] <ivoks> mjg59: (0.5.3-0ubuntu10)
[05:42] <mjg59> ivoks: Ok, thanks
[05:43] <ivoks> mjg59: just did reinstall of hal and acpid... no changes
[05:43] <mjg59> ivoks: No, I wouldn't expect there to be
[05:43] <ogra> pitti, but 0.5.3 is supposed to work...
[05:43] <mdz> Kamion,mjg59: switched from 'which' to 'type' in init-functions, rc and rcS
[05:43] <mdz> since it's a built-in and should be faster
[05:43] <pitti> ogra: hmm, no idea then
[05:43] <mdz> though which *is* in fact in /bin
[05:44] <ivoks> mjg59: me too, but i messed a lot with acpi, so i wanted to get clean configs...
[05:44] <mjg59> pitti: Ok. hald-addon-acpi should be running. It isn't.
[05:44] <pitti> mjg59: right, neither it does for me
[05:45] <mjg59> pitti: That's a bug
[05:45] <pitti> mjg59: I only have hald-addon-storage
[05:45] <Kamion> mdz: annoying but unimportant
[05:45] <mjg59> pitti: I don't even have that, but still
[05:45] <Kamion> mdz: it makes the are-all-debootstrapped-packages-there? check not work, but that check doesn't matter much any more now we have automagic debootstrap
[05:46] <ogra> mjg59, i have it and it runs.
[05:46] <ogra> mjg59, but i still dont get acpi events
[05:46] <mjg59> ogra: It's running? In the background?
[05:46] <ogra> ogra@honk:~/edubuntu-artwork-0.1.0 $ ps ax|grep acpi
[05:46] <ogra>     7 ?        S<     0:00 [kacpid] 
[05:46] <ogra>  4409 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/acpid -c /etc/acpi/events -s /var/run/acpid.socket
[05:46] <ogra>  4645 ?        S      0:00 hald-addon-acpi
[05:46] <mjg59> ogra: Can you strace it and see if it's getting events?
[05:46] <mjg59> ogra: My suspicion is that it may not be sensible enough to have bound to the acpid socket
[05:47] <ogra> hmm, is it supposed to talk to acpid ? i thought it reads from proc ? 
[05:47] <mdz> has anyone tested a daily install CD recently?
[05:47] <mjg59> ogra: It can't read from proc if acpid has already bound to the event file
[05:48] <ogra> mdz, my last edubuntu was on sunday...
[05:48] <mdz> ogra: we need tests with the new xorg
[05:48] <ogra> mdz, on edubuntu desktop-base seems gone, any idea why ? 
[05:49] <ogra> mjg59, ah, ok
[05:49] <mdz> Kamion: hmm
[05:49] <mdz> Kamion: [1] -  5685 Stopped (tty input)     cron.daily-live
[05:49] <mdz> Kamion: I usually run it in the background without issue
[05:49] <ivoks> ogra: mjg59 if acpid is started before dbus, then it's ok
[05:49] <mjg59> ivoks: Yes, that's what I'd expect
[05:49] <mjg59> ivoks: But right now I'm trying to track down why this doesn't actually seem to work at all for most people
[05:49] <mdz> Kamion: happened at this point: Running tools/boot/breezy/boot-powerpc 1 /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/tmp/breezy-powerpc/CD1
[05:50] <ivoks> cause dbus is S12 and acpid S20? :)
[05:50] <mvo> mdz: I downloaded one today but haven't managed to test it yet. should I do that now?
[05:50] <mjg59> ivoks: No
[05:50] <ivoks> ogra: when was last time you reboot your breezy?
[05:50] <mjg59> ivoks: Because hal is broken
[05:50] <ivoks> ok
[05:50] <mjg59> ivoks: I'll fix your bug once I've worked out what's wrong with hal
[05:51] <ogra> ivoks, ~ 2h ago for usplash testing
[05:51] <ivoks> ogra: ok...
[05:51] <mdz> Kamion: maybe your yaboot changes?
[05:51] <mdz> mvo: please
[05:52] <Kamion> mdz: could be, let me have a look
[05:52] <Kamion> mdz: did the change to cdimage user happen without incident?
[05:53] <pitti> mjg59: 
[05:53] <pitti> 29379: 17:52:37.803: addon-acpi.c:115: Cannot open /proc/acpi/event: Permission denied - trying /var/run/acpid.socket
[05:53] <pitti> 29379: 17:52:37.803: addon-acpi.c:127: Cannot open /var/run/acpid.socket - bailing out
[05:53] <mdz> Kamion: the cron jobs seem to have been working, yes
[05:53] <mjg59> pitti: Ok. Now, why is that failing?
[05:53] <mdz> Kamion: I've still been running ad-hoc builds as mdz
[05:53] <pitti> odd, since it is 666
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: just to be clear, it is supposed to take the socket, not the proc file, right?
[05:54] <Diziet> How strange.  Now I can't get gs-esp to build from source on i386.  I'm sure it worked yesterday.  (But perhaps that was on sarge not breezy.)
[05:54] <mjg59> pitti: If acpid is running, it should take the socket
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: oops, yes
[05:54] <mjg59> If acpid is not running, it should open /proc/acpi/event
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: I stopped it
[05:54] <mjg59> Right. What user does hald run as?
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: hal
[05:54] <Kamion> mdz: could you ctrl-c your build so I can try it out?
[05:54] <mjg59> Ok. It's not going to be able to open /proc/acpi/event
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: I stopped acpid to not shutdown my box when I press the power button
[05:54] <pitti> mjg59: right
[05:55] <ivoks> pitti: 666? here is 400...
[05:55] <mdz> Kamion: done
[05:55] <pitti> srw-rw-rw-  1 root root 0 2005-08-30 12:09 /var/run/acpid.socket
[05:55] <ivoks> ah, socket...
[05:55] <ivoks> sorry
[05:55] <pitti> ivoks: yes, /proc/acpi/event
[05:55] <mjg59> pitti: Ok. hal needs to be started after acpid
[05:55] <ivoks> right
[05:55] <mjg59> Otherwise it does stupid stuff
[05:56] <pitti> mjg59: ok, any chance I can run acpid without shutting down my box?
[05:56] <mjg59> pitti: Yes, just move /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh
[05:56] <ogra> mjg59, note that it will slow down the boot for about 4secs, i did tests for hwdb in hoary...
[05:56] <mjg59> ogra: What will?
[05:56] <ogra> (running acpid before hal)
[05:57] <mjg59> ogra: We either run acpid before hal or hal doesn't work as it's supposed to
[05:57] <mvo> nautilus-cd-burner hates me today and refues to burn on my cdrw 
[05:57] <ogra> acpid is run after gdm currently 
[05:57] <mjg59> ogra: We have a choice between correct or slow.
[05:57] <pitti> mjg59: right, now it works
[05:57] <mjg59> pitti: No, it doesn;t
[05:57] <mjg59> pitti: acpi events aren't sent
[05:57] <pitti> mjg59: the connection, I meant
[05:58] <mjg59> pitti: Ah :)
[05:58] <mjg59> pitti: Sorry, yes.
[05:58] <ogra> mjg59, i just wanted to point that out, since my patches were rejected by thom in hoary because of this..
[05:58] <mjg59> Seems to work for me, too
[05:58] <pitti> mjg59: also events
[05:58] <pitti> signal sender=:1.7 -> dest=(null destination) interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition
[05:58] <pitti>  string "ButtonPressed"
[05:58] <pitti> string ""
[05:58] <pitti> mjg59: ^thats what hal sends for the power button
[05:58] <mjg59> Hurray!
[05:58] <ogra> geez
[05:59] <Lathiat> mjg59: like, work work?
[05:59] <mjg59> Lathiat: Like, work work
[05:59] <Lathiat> as in all the options?
[05:59] <pitti> mjg59: humm, so we need hald running before gdm, otherwise we could see races at session start
[05:59] <mjg59> I pressed the power button and g-p-m gave me a notification
[05:59] <pitti> mjg59: so we don't have much of a choicee
[05:59] <Lathiat> cool
[05:59] <mjg59> pitti: Yeah
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: looks like this could happen if none of the cases in the if/elif at line 94 trigger
[05:59] <mjg59> I'll upload a fixed acpid
[06:00] <mjg59> Oh. Hrm.
[06:00] <mdz> Kamion: of course, I'd think that CDIMAGE_LIVE would be true...
[06:00] <mjg59> What's the right way of changing startup priority?
[06:00] <pitti> mjg59: it takes maybe 0.3 seconds here to start up, not much of a regression...
[06:00] <ivoks> ok, then that's fixed...
[06:00] <pitti> mjg59: dbus recently did it
[06:00] <pitti> mjg59: maybe steal from daniel's postinst :-)
[06:00] <mjg59> pitti: Presumably postinst has to deal with the case?
[06:00] <pitti> I guess
[06:01] <mjg59> Hm. dbus doesn't seem to have anything to handle it in its postinst
[06:01] <Kamion> mdz: reproduced, thanks for the hint - looks plausible
[06:01] <ogra> mjg59, dh_installinit ??
[06:02] <Kamion> mdz: judging from ps that's not it, though
[06:02] <mjg59> ogra: That's fine for new installs
[06:02] <pitti> ogra: you have to preserve local symlink configurations
[06:02] <mjg59> ogra: I don't think it can handle the case of something changing
[06:02] <ogra> hmm, how does dbus do it then ? 
[06:03] <mjg59> Dunno
[06:03] <pitti> mjg59: I /msged you the postinst code of dbus
[06:04] <mjg59> Ah!
[06:04] <mjg59> My dbus must predate that
[06:04] <mjg59> Yes
[06:04] <Kamion> mdz: fixed now, I think; testing
[06:07] <doko> ogra: do you need schooltool and schoolbell in main for edubuntu?
[06:07] <ogra> yup
[06:08] <pitti> still, the hal 0.5.4 changes look tempting...
[06:09] <slomo> elmo: the ppc buildds are broken... no space left... see this for example: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/h/hasciicam/0.9.1-1.1ubuntu1/hasciicam_0.9.1-1.1ubuntu1_20050830-1646-powerpc-failed.gz
[06:10] <jordi> too bad seb isn't here.
[06:10] <jordi> 15:55 <@seb128> I'm pretty sure that's not a gtk bug
[06:10] <jordi> he really said it
[06:10] <dholbach> haha
[06:10] <Nafallo> lol
[06:11] <Diziet> No, this new ppc binary is fundamentally hosed.  Less so than it was, but still fundamentally hosed.
[06:13] <Kamion> oh ye hideous screaming gods, 1120 new messages in breezy-changes
[06:13] <Kamion> you lot have been busy
[06:14] <Nafallo> Kamion: lol, that's a nice way to put it ;-)
[06:16] <sivang> gos?
[06:16] <sivang> err, gods?
[06:16] <sivang> :)
[06:17] <Nafallo> Kamion: welcome back btw :-)
[06:17] <Kamion> mdz: ok, fixed, try again
[06:21] <pitti> Nafallo: btw, I noticed some recent security uploads from you to breezy; please always prefer a package sync over an -ubuntu upload
[06:22] <Nafallo> pitti: talking about kismet?
[06:22] <pitti> Nafallo: yes, that was it
[06:22] <Nafallo> pitti: I've tried to find insolated patches, but I haven't had any luck :-/
[06:23] <pitti> Nafallo: I meant, you used the Debian version and uploaded it as ubuntu1, right?
[06:23] <infinity> slomo : Fixed.
[06:24] <sivang> infinity: I got over that issues I had with debmirror, apparently ftp was blocked here so I used --method=ftp
[06:24] <pitti> Nafallo: no, for breezy (i. e. unstable), syncing from Debian is preferred over patching
[06:24] <slomo> infinity: thanks :) can you start a rebuild for hasciicam / aatv / mono? they failed because of that
[06:24] <Nafallo> pitti: yepp, took the debian version and merged our changes.
[06:24] <Kamion> Keybuk: I guess making binfmt-support depend on lsb-base was too hard? ;-)
[06:25] <infinity> slomo : Are those the only ones?
[06:25] <pitti> Nafallo: according to the changelog there aren't any Ubunut changes
[06:25] <ivoks> bye
[06:25] <Nafallo> ehm
[06:25] <slomo> infinity: wait
[06:25] <Nafallo> pitti: let me check :-)
[06:25] <Keybuk> Kamion: mm
[06:25] <Keybuk> oops :)
[06:26] <slomo> infinity: uh... much more
[06:27] <slomo> infinity: everything from kvpnc to mmv
[06:27] <slomo> infinity: mmv is 13:08 GMT
[06:28] <gans10> can someone help me in #ubuntuppc
[06:28] <slomo> infinity: but there were some successull ppc builds in that time... hmm
[06:28] <infinity> slomo : Obviously, there are three ppc buildds, only one was out of space.
[06:28] <gans10> i have a problem booting liveppc cd
[06:28] <elmo> wow, my terminal is entirely SNAFU after a breezy upgrade
[06:29] <slomo> infinity: shall i make a list of all failed packages or is this easier for you?
[06:29] <infinity> slomo : I like lists.
[06:29] <Nafallo> pitti: wow! I seemed to have dropped them :-(. I guess I should fix that.
[06:29] <gans10> can someone help me in #ubuntuppc
[06:29] <gans10> i have a problem booting liveppc cd
[06:29] <pitti> Nafallo: dropped the changes, or just the changelog?
[06:29] <elmo> only within the running screen session tho
[06:29] <elmo> ho hum
[06:30] <Nafallo> pitti: the changelog, I knew what changes we did by heart already :-)
[06:31] <infinity> elmo : How much do I have to bribe you to get more disk space in royal? :)
[06:31] <infinity> elmo : Alternately, I should make sure *-desktop is uninstallable most of the time, so the livecd builds fail and don't fill the fs.
[06:31] <Kamion> gans10: don't see why it needs a separate channel
[06:31] <Kamion> gans10: are you using a G5?
[06:31] <gans10> G4
[06:32] <gans10> something withxorg
[06:32] <gans10> it flashes several times
[06:32] <Kamion> ah, probably not something I know about then unfortunately
[06:32] <gans10> oh
[06:32] <gans10> ok
[06:32] <gans10> thanks
[06:32] <mvo> mdz: installing now (stage2), got a debconf message from toshset that it will not work :)
[06:33] <infinity> mvo : mjg59's already been larted for that.
[06:33] <mvo> infinity: heh, ok
[06:35] <Diziet> OK, so what will go wrong if my jmp_buf's are not 16-byte aligned on ppc ?
[06:35] <elmo> infinity: it has a 3rd drive
[06:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: also your change has Nathaniel-esque set -e breakage :-P I'm incorporating it into Debian at the moment, and will fix it
[06:35] <elmo> infinity: problem is, I need to wipe + reinstall to add it
[06:35] <elmo> mjg59: is the plan for that text in usplash to always be there?
[06:35] <mjg59> elmo: Always be there in what way?
[06:35] <elmo> mjg59: (that text == the Starting service ..., stuff)
[06:35] <infinity> elmo : I could just mount it to ~buildd/public_html, for livcd+translation export.
[06:36] <infinity> elmo : For now, anyway.
[06:36] <mjg59> elmo: It may be dropped after Breezy, but we'll probably keep it for now
[06:36] <Keybuk> Kamion: meh, I cargo-culted that stuff mostly from another one
[06:36] <elmo> well, hum, sure
[06:36] <elmo> ^-- infinity: sorry
[06:37] <elmo> mjg59: hum, ok, silbs is concerned that makes usplash kind of like normal boot except with a progress bar ;)
[06:37] <elmo> oh, well, as I can HEAR from her NOISY client, silbs is here, so I'm sure she can speak for herself ;)
[06:37] <silbs> elmo: quit talking about me and the noise won't bother you
[06:38] <Diziet> Can I compile a specific program without altivec support ?
[06:38] <mjg59> elmo: Heh. If there's consensus that the text shouldn't be there, we can probably remove it
[06:38] <Diziet> Because this 16-byte-aligned jmp_buf violates too many assumptions in gs.
[06:38] <infinity> elmo : Do you trust me to abuse root for that, or will you do it when you find a round tuit?
[06:38] <Kamion> Diziet: -mno-altivec
[06:39] <Kamion> give that after any -mcpu
[06:39] <elmo> infinity: I'm on it
[06:39] <silbs> mjg59: it was just my first reaction to see usplash for the first time.  Gut reaction more than a thoughtful consensus. 
[06:39] <infinity> elmo : rock.
[06:39] <mjg59> silbs: At the moment we don't really have any infrastructure for passing on failures to the user
[06:39] <Diziet> k: And this is allowed ?  I mean, I can do that in Breezy ?
[06:39] <mjg59> I can think of a couple of ways to hack around it, but nothing terribly breezyable
[06:40] <elmo> wow
[06:40] <Kamion> Diziet: oh, yes, that's fine
[06:40] <elmo> cfdisk on the Xserves is amusingly SNAFU
[06:40] <elmo> it reckons / is all free space
[06:40] <mjg59> Oh argh why does PowerManager not create a pidfile?
[06:40] <Kamion> elmo: mac-fdisk?
[06:40] <Kamion> cfdisk probably expects PC-style partition tables or something
[06:40] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, I guess - I wish cfdisk would be less unhelpful tho
[06:40] <Diziet> k: Excellent.
[06:40] <Kamion> there are two partition table types in common use on powerpc, which is painful
[06:41] <elmo> boggle, this "blank" hard drive from Apple has a non-empty HFS partition
[06:41] <silbs> mjg59: breezyable is the name of the game these days. If it's not in that category,then no need to talk about it now :)
[06:42] <infinity> elmo : fdisk is the only way to go on PPC.. I don't know why we even ship cfdisk.
[06:42] <infinity> elmo : fdisk appears to be smart enough to figure out apple and PC style tables.
[06:43] <Diziet> Hrm.  -mno-altivec doesn't seem to change the compiler's idea of the alignment for jmp_buf.
[06:43] <mjg59> Oh, FFS.
[06:43] <Kamion> Diziet: -mabi=no-altivec maybe?
[06:43] <elmo> infinity: cfdisk is useful for e.g. usb sticks
[06:44] <Kamion> if not that, it must be something other than AltiVec
[06:44] <Diziet> k: google seems to suggest that produces an incompatible abi which will therefore break.
[06:44] <mvo> ping jamesh 
[06:44] <infinity> elmo : If cfdisk was rewritten to just be a shell frontend to libparted, I'd probably like it better, cause it would stop doing silly things like claiming a disk is empty. :)
[06:44] <Diziet> Oh, no, the stupid gs build system doesn't pass my flags to genarch.
[06:44] <Diziet> To gcc when building genarch, I mean.
[06:45] <infinity> Anyhoo.  Off to bed in an attempt to get back in my own timezone.
[06:45] <infinity> elmo : Thanks in advance for making royal happy.
[06:45] <infinity> (Or, happier, anyway)
[06:46] <Diziet> But anyway, -mabi=no-altivec doesn't change the alignment of a jmp_buf either.
[06:47] <infinity> Uh huh.
[06:48] <elmo> infinity: partition's ready, /dev/sdc2
[06:48] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, for my fresh installed ltsp client X autodetection didnt work it seems...
[06:48] <elmo> infinity: do you want me to mv public_html's contents there?
[06:48] <mvo> Kamion: the install is hanging with apt/aptitude asking for a cdrom. it looks like mozilla-firefox-locale-en was not copied onto the hd (but is available on the cd)
[06:48] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: I haven't changed anything
[06:48] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: did it ever work on this client?
[06:49] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, what about x packages ? 
[06:49] <infinity> elmo : If you wouldn't mind, that would be cool.  I should go find a bed.
[06:49] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: I didn't change the X packages either
[06:49] <infinity> elmo : And if you do it, I can blame you if things go missing. :)
[06:49] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, sure until yesterday
[06:49] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, the client has versioned deps ? 
[06:49] <ogra_ltsp> there was an X upload recently... 
[06:50] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: yes...
[06:50] <mvo> Kamion: I pass a "need cdrom" question on the status-fd in apt easily if you need that
[06:50] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: if it isn't working for you, then you should file a bug
[06:50] <dholbach> slomo: did you write that transitions page?
[06:50] <ogra_ltsp> hmm, strange then...
[06:50] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: you know how to debug it, right?
[06:50] <slomo> dholbach: yes
[06:50] <dholbach> slomo: thank you for that - i linked it on MOTUTodo
[06:50] <Kamion> mvo: yes, that would very much help
[06:51] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, the X startup ? 
[06:51] <ogra_ltsp> sure
[06:51] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingXAutoconfiguration
[06:51] <ogra_ltsp> yup
[06:51] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: then file a bug against xserver-xorg
[06:51] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: it will automatically be assigned to daniels
[06:51] <ogra_ltsp> oki
[06:52] <Kamion> mvo: it's possible that language-* copying isn't working right; just before I left, I noticed that it didn't follow dependencies
[06:52] <slomo> dholbach: can you check whether i got the status of the transitions in main right?
[06:52] <ogra_ltsp> Kamion, mdz, can anybody tell me why desktop-base is gone from edubuntu iso's since saturday ? or tell me where to look for the reason ? 
[06:53] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: /usr/share/gnome-session/changelog.Debian.gz
[06:53] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: why?
[06:53] <Diziet> Aha!  Found the problem in the gs bugzilla.  http://bugs.ghostscript.com/show_bug.cgi?id=687643
[06:53] <ogra_ltsp> gnome-session breaks on it...
[06:54] <dholbach> slomo: seems ok to me, but will doublecheck next week
[06:54] <slomo> dholbach: thanks :)
[06:54] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: gnome-session is working fine here
[06:54] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: perhaps you could do some analysis and file a bug?
[06:54] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, it requires some files in place that arent there... i need to do a new install to get the error... last time i was on it, i was dragged away by initramfs-tools probs
[06:55] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: perhaps your gnome-session is old
[06:55] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: you need 2.11.91-0ubuntu3
[06:55] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: <mdz> ogra_ltsp: /usr/share/gnome-session/changelog.Debian.gz
[06:55] <mvo> mdz, Kamion: modulo the missing "language-*" stuff the install worked finetest-install was sucessfull here 
[06:56] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[06:56] <elmo> mdz: pls don't trigger any powerpc livecd builds
[06:58] <dholbach> infinity: with whom would i arrange a test-rebuild of the archive? with you? or does lamont still that kind of thing?
[07:01] <pitti> mjg59: cool
[07:01] <mjg59> Only issue is that it doesn't seem to be responding to sleep key events
[07:01] <mjg59> Oh, hang on, I know
[07:02] <mjg59> That'll be ibm-acpi
[07:02] <mvo> elmo: can I please get python-apt in the breezy chroot on concordia?
[07:02] <elmo> mvo: installing
[07:02] <mvo> elmo: thanks
[07:03] <sivang> dholbach: test rebuild of the *whole* archive ? :)
[07:03] <dholbach> sivang: that's what lamont did for hoary
[07:04] <sivang> dholbach: wow, that oughtta to take some time
[07:04] <Amaranth> couple days
[07:06] <mjg59> pitti: Hal probably needs support to recognise various vendor hotkeys as sleep buttons
[07:07] <mdz> mjg59: so I'm not entirely sure what's happening with usplash vs. X on the live CD
[07:07] <mjg59> mdz: Hm
[07:07] <mjg59> mdz: What sort of symptoms?
[07:07] <mdz> mjg59: so usplash goes along fine until gdm starts
[07:07] <mdz> mjg59: the CD churns away as X is being read in parallel with all the readahead stuff
[07:07] <mjg59> Ok...
[07:07] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, ok, xorg checked, it detects vmware instead of nv here... reproducable...
[07:08] <mdz> mjg59: the usplash timeout presumably expires, and I end up at a text-mode login
[07:08] <mjg59> mdz: Right
[07:08] <mdz> mjg59: then X gets around to starting up, but doesn't switch consoles
[07:08] <mjg59> mdz: Ok
[07:08] <mdz> mjg59: does X have some sort of paranoia check where it could notice a console switch before it has even switched itself?
[07:09] <mdz> mjg59: clearly usplash is switching first, so I'd expect X to go ahead and switch after that, and win
[07:09] <mjg59> mdz: Unsure
[07:09] <mjg59> mdz: Can you try adding a usplash_write "QUIT" to the start of the gdm script and ensure that that's working ok?
[07:10] <mdz> mjg59: can do
[07:10] <mdz> I should check the X log also
[07:12] <mjg59> pitti: Actually, Hal needs quite a bit of loving in this respect
[07:13] <mjg59> Argh
[07:13] <mdz> mjg59: yes, an explicit usplash_write QUIT lets things end up in the right place
[07:13] <mdz> trying again without it to see if X says anything useful
[07:15] <elmo> btw, are we going to usplash shutdown?
[07:16] <mdz> elmo: sure, after breezy ;-)
[07:16] <mdz> we've pushed our luck far enough, I'd say
[07:17] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:17] <elmo> and/or ever turn most of the init.d stop scripts into no-ops?
[07:17] <mdz> mjg59: ok, very weird
[07:17] <elmo> mdz: heh, ok
[07:17] <mdz> mjg59: X log halts midstep with "(++) using VT number 7"
[07:17] <mdz> mjg59: and doesn't seem to proceed until I switch over to VT 7
[07:18] <mdz> mjg59: it's blocked in ioctl(3, VIDIOC_S_COMP or VT_WAITACTIVE
[07:18] <mdz> mjg59: FD 3 being /dev/tty7
[07:19] <mjg59> mdz: Hmm.
[07:19] <mjg59> mdz: That's with usplash?
[07:19] <mdz> mjg59: yes
[07:19] <mdz> that's after removing the workaround
[07:19] <elmo> hum, is it known the xscreensaver dialog has regressed?
[07:19] <mjg59> mdz: Right. I'm guessing some sort of race condition, but I'm not sure what.
[07:19] <elmo> I can't see in bugzilla but maybe I'm being stoopid
[07:20] <mdz> mjg59: I can understand X wanting to do a VT_WAITACTIVE, but surely it's doing a VT_ACTIVATE immediately before that, and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't work
[07:20] <Kamion> elmo: is shutdown slow enough to merit that? it seems a bit risky to just power off under the feet of a lot of daemons
[07:21] <elmo> Kamion: I don't have working suspend/resume, so yeah, I find shutdown annoyingly slow
[07:21] <elmo> but then I'm hyperactively impatient
[07:21] <mdz> mjg59: I guess it's possible that we're ending up with 1. X does VT_ACTIVATE 2. usplash does VT_ACTIVATE, 3. X does VT_WAITACTIVE [blocks] 
[07:21] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[07:22] <mdz> mjg59: what was the plan with -novtswitch?  do we have some reasonable way to determine which vt X is using, so we can switch there ourselves?
[07:22] <elmo> hey, this is breezy
[07:22] <elmo> maybe I do have working suspend/resume
[07:22] <mdz> elmo: yes, it is known, ogra and I talked about it and I thought he was going to upload it last week sometime
[07:22] <elmo> hmm, nope
[07:22] <sivang> elmo: can I get whitelisted or whatever neede to receive mails from your beloved katie?
[07:22] <elmo> ogra_ltsp: ?
[07:23] <elmo> sivang: email address?
[07:23] <ogra_ltsp> elmo, ?
[07:23] <elmo> ogra_ltsp: ^-- see mdz's comment?  shuold I file a bug?
[07:23] <sivang> elmo: sivan AT piware DOT de
[07:23] <mjg59> elmo: Hm. On PPC?
[07:24] <mjg59> mdz: I'm afraid I'm not sure what's going on there
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: no, i386, my powerbook is dead
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: HP Pavilion zt3000
[07:24] <ogra_ltsp> elmo, i have the lockscreen patch waiting on my disk... its blocked by a prerequisite mdz had for it i'm just figuring out
[07:24] <mjg59> elmo: What failure?
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: i.e. the office cast off
[07:24] <oceandead> just wondering - will breezy have built in support for rtl8180 
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: just doesn't suspend
[07:24] <mjg59> elmo: Have you edited /etc/default/acpi-support ?
[07:24] <ogra_ltsp> elmo, no need ofr a bug... it would be a duplicate anyway :)
[07:24] <elmo> ogra_ltsp: ok, as long as it doesn't get forgotten ;)
[07:24] <ogra_ltsp> s/ofr/for
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: no - should I have?
[07:24] <mjg59> elmo: Yes
[07:25] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: I think I asked you to upload the LTSP change at the same time
[07:25] <mdz> mjg59: the strange thing is that I only see one VT switch, not two
[07:25] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, you asked me to upload a ltsp change ? 
[07:25] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, ah, sorry, slow today
[07:25] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: for xscreensaver, yes
[07:26] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, exactly... but thats not ready 
[07:26] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: is it not trivial?  if (getenv("LTSP_CLIENT")) { force blanking mode }
[07:26] <ogra_ltsp> so the lockscreen is waiting... i think i got it done tomorrow... its scheduled for my nightshift today :)
[07:26] <elmo> mjg59: to enable SLEEP?  if so, after an /etc/init.d/acpid reload, still no love
[07:27] <ogra_ltsp> the "force blanking mode" isnt :)
[07:27] <mjg59> elmo: It shouldn't need a reload. What happens when you press the slepe key?
[07:27] <ogra_ltsp> i know how to do get a environment var :)
[07:27] <mjg59> If the answer is "absolutely nothing", can you try sudo /etc/acpi/sleep.sh ?
[07:28] <elmo>                                 ~.
[07:29] <mjg59> Helpful.
[07:29] <elmo> heh, woops :)
[07:29] <elmo> mjg59: hotkey does nothing
[07:29] <mjg59> elmo: Ok
[07:29] <elmo> mjg59: running the script by hand worked
[07:29] <mjg59> elmo: Are you on very latest breezy?
[07:29] <elmo> mjg59: updated like 30 mins ago
[07:29] <mjg59> elmo: Oh, I know. You'll need to restart gdm.
[07:29] <mjg59> (sorry)
[07:30] <elmo> shouldn't it suspend on laptop lid close, or am I AWTY-ing?
[07:30] <mjg59> elmo: Give me half an hour?
[07:30] <elmo> heh, sure, no problem sorry
[07:32] <mjg59> Argh, my acpi-support upload has stalled.
[07:32] <Diziet> Wahey!  A working-ish gs on ppc!
[07:32] <mjg59> Let's try that again
[07:32] <mjg59> There we go
[07:32] <Diziet> I did have to do this:
[07:32] <Diziet> #define setjmp(x)      (gsfix_orig_setjmp(find_jmp_buf((x))))
[07:32] <Diziet> et al.
[07:33] <jbailey> Diziet: Eww...
[07:34] <Diziet> It works, though.  gs never memcpy's a jmp_buf, so you can make a set of macros that work just like normal setjmp etc. but whose jmp_buf is (a) bigger but (b) has alignment 1.
[07:34] <mjg59> elmo: Ok. Once they've got through the buildds, grab acpid, acpi-support, powermanagement-interface and gnome-power-manager
[07:35] <elmo> mjg59: ok, cool, will do
[07:35] <elmo> ssh is exiting with exit code of 1 for me since I upgraded; anyone else seeing that?
[07:35] <elmo> seems only to be when using the nc proxycommand trick tho
[07:36] <mjg59> ogra_ltsp: Ok, g-p-m seems to be working sensibly now
[07:37] <mjg59> Though the sleep button stuff isn't terribly useful right now
[07:37] <mjg59> lid, power and hibernate look good
[07:37] <spayne> well done - the latest udev sorted out the mounting problems
[07:37] <spayne> now i can use the CD drive :-)
[07:38] <sivang> elmo: thanks :)
[07:38] <sivang> elmo: she just mailed me, I feel so special :-)
[07:38] <jbailey> spayne: Thanks.
[07:38] <jbailey> Seems to be fixed for some cases, just not all.
[07:38] <spayne> jbailey: but not ndiswrapper :-) 
[07:38] <ogra_ltsp> mjg59, wow, cool
[07:38] <spayne> jbailey: i'm on #ndiswrapper to see if they can tell me what the error message means
[07:38] <mjg59> ogra_ltsp: You should have a play later on
[07:39] <mjg59> ogra_ltsp: (needs a pile of stuff I uploaded just now)
[07:39] <ogra_ltsp> mjg59, i will...
[07:39] <ogra_ltsp> :)
[07:40] <ogra_ltsp> hmm, seems daniels changed the handling of discover for dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, that seems to make my card recognized wrong... but i dont get why it thinks it is vmware
[07:41] <ogra_ltsp> s/recognized/being recognized
[07:41] <elmo> mjg59: I've got lots of ACPI error spam in my dmesg; do you care?
[07:42] <mjg59> elmo: What sort?
[07:42] <mjg59> elmo: If it's about owner_ids, it'll be fixed in the next upload
[07:43] <doko> Riddell: in the latest OOo2 upload, there's a patch, which allows using addresses for i.e. form letters, which are taken from kaddressbook. I didn't check, if that actually works. Maybe you care ... ;)
[07:43] <lamont-away>  dholbach full rebuild requires that the test-archive be flushed and it's wanna-build db repopulated... both of those are archive-management tasks...
[07:43] <lamont-away> and a full rebuild was just done last week, iirc
[07:48] <elmo> oh, and yay
[07:48] <elmo> I can't cleanly shutdown after suspend/resume
[07:49] <dholbach> lamont-away: oh... i see, thanks for that - are the buildlogs in /Test/ as usual?
[07:49] <elmo> [4294932.334000]      ACPI-0423: *** Error: Handler for [EmbeddedControl]  returned AE_TIME
[07:49] <elmo> [4294932.334000]      ACPI-0509: *** Error: Method execution failed [\_SB_.C046.C059.C0EA.C132]  (Node cffb73a0), AE_TIME
[07:50] <elmo> mjg59: that kind of thing
[07:50] <dholbach> lamont-away: thanks, i will generate a todo list from that data
[07:54] <ivoks> that reminds me... sometimes after resume, some keys on keyboard don't work...
[07:55] <ivoks> and that's when i use hr or hr_US layout
[07:57] <Riddell> doko: cool, I'll give it a try
[07:58] <mjg59> elmo: Hrm. that's interesting
[07:59] <elmo> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/kern.log has more
[08:01] <fabbione> elmo: can we sync tailor from Debian -> universe? it looks an interesting piece of python code...
[08:02] <elmo> fabbione: done
[08:05] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[08:18] <slomo> mdz: did you read my mail regarding ffmpeg?
[08:20] <mdz> slomo: yes
[08:27] <ogra> grmpf... why doesnt pcmcia-cs notify me anymore before it shuts down my network on upgrade...
[08:28] <ivoks> :)
[08:33] <Treenaks> ogra: use cardbus! :P
[08:47] <ogra> Treenaks, pcmcia-cs used to ask before it shuts down the interfaces...
[08:48] <Treenaks> ogra: true..
[08:48] <Treenaks> ogra: but still, it's ancient :)
[08:48] <ogra> its what the default install choose here... i didnt touch it
[08:55] <Treenaks> no I mean hardware-wise
[09:02] <mdz> does anyone know a convenient shell idiom for capturing the exit status of the first command in a pipeline?
[09:04] <Kamion> I don't know any *convenient* ones; would you like an inconvenient one instead? :)
[09:05] <Kamion> CODE="$(((foo; echo $? >&3) | bar) 3>&1)"
[09:05] <Kamion> at least IIRC
[09:06] <Kamion> might need a few >/dev/null redirects and such
[09:06] <mdz> Kamion: I ended up moving the branch into a subshell
[09:08] <mdz> in this case I was lucky and it didn't matter that the conditional logic was executed in a subshell
[09:10] <mdz> bah, I just clobbered my /tmp testing mountall.sh
[09:10] <mdz> obviously "mountall" is a secret code for "mount the remaining filesystems AND THEN DELETE LOTS OF STUFF"
[09:11] <Lathiat> heh
[09:23] <mdz> jbailey: did you and mjg59 work out a way to get usplash activated upon install?
[09:23] <mdz> jbailey: that's necessary for preview
[09:24] <Kamion> mdz: I saw the mail about that; what's wrong with just sticking it in the minimal seed?
[09:24] <jbailey> mdz: No, I was chatting with Fabio about it a bit ago, though.
[09:25] <jbailey> To see if there was any reasonable way of doing it that way.
[09:28] <jbailey> mdz: It's not ideal, since it involves the kernel packaging at times other than reinstall, but it's hard to come up with a better solution.
[09:28] <Kamion> anyone here speak Chinese?
[09:29] <fabbione> Kamion: when i am drunk enough :P
[09:30] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/man-gb2312.gif
[09:30] <Mitario> hmm, the elipses are wrong in liblaunchpad
[09:31] <Kamion> wondering if that looks kinda right (from the point of view of line-wrapping, etc.)
[09:31] <Mitario> ellipses*
[09:31] <mdz> Kamion: usplash in the minimal seed seems a bit evil, don't you think?
[09:32] <Kamion> I suppose
[09:32] <Kamion> failing that it's easy to have a bit of code to apt-install it with a debconf question to let certain CD builds turn it back off, though
[09:32] <mdz> minimal isn't terribly minimal at the moment, but usplash seems out of place there
[09:33] <Kamion> though I don't know offhand where it might go; could just hack it into base-installer I guess
[09:33] <mdz> I'm not sure whether it's more or less evil than having usplash regenerate the initrd on install
[09:34] <sedak> fabbione, do you have some time to check if a module package is fine ?
[09:35] <fabbione> sedak: not today.. it's sort of late evening and i am going offline soon
[09:35] <sedak> ok
[09:35] <sedak> then another day :-)
[09:35] <fabbione> sedak: remind me in a day or two...
[09:36] <fabbione> please..
[09:36] <sedak> ok, no problem, i'll do that ^^
[09:36] <fabbione> thanks
[09:42] <ogra> hrm, now X thinks i have a cirrus_laguna card :/
[09:43] <HiddenWolf> ogra, get a screwdriver, and check, perhaps you'll be suprized. :)
[09:43] <ogra> HiddenWolf, i know that my laptop has a nvidia card ;)
[09:44] <ogra> xorg autodetection stopped working for me with -54 it seems... 
[09:45] <ogra> the weird stuff is, that the card gets detectd as vmware if i run the laptop as ltsp client, but as cirrus_laguna if i run dpkg-recionfigure locally...
[09:50] <wasabi> Is X going to be modularized into actually different development modules? So a single X change doesn't result in 60 packages being downloaded. ;)
[09:50] <ivoks> :)
[09:50] <ogra> wasabi, hasnt that already happened ? 
[09:51] <HiddenWolf> ogra, to an extent. :)
[09:51] <ogra> heh
[09:51] <dieman> grmbl
[09:51] <dieman> does breezy have ahci support?
[09:55] <eruin> How can I get involved in laptoptesting?
[09:55] <eruin> I've got a few spanking new laptops around here I'd like to contribute with
[09:56] <HiddenWolf> eruin, check on wiki.u.c/LaptopTestingTeam or the like of it.
[09:57] <eruin> cheers
[09:57] <HiddenWolf> np. :)
[09:59] <eruin> wikis really scare me
[09:59] <eruin> ;C
[10:00] <HiddenWolf> eruin, they're addictive. :)
[10:02] <eruin> heh, the lads at ECS say battery life of my current laptop is more than 3hrs
[10:03] <HiddenWolf> eruin, sure, if you leave it on the desktop, and only look at it. :)
[10:03] <eruin> btw, did the network-manager discussion in here earlier today lead to any conclusions affecting breezy?
[10:03] <eruin> HiddenWolf, thats when I get 2 1/2 tops
[10:03] <eruin> :P
[10:04] <HiddenWolf> eruin, but you've used it, they're using a brand new battery. :)
[10:04] <Burgundavia> eruin, what was the gist of the discussing?
[10:04] <dholbach> eruin: the package in debian built and works for me (not that i did a hardcore stress test)
[10:04] <dholbach> eruin: the package on REVU
[10:04] <dholbach> eruin: sorry
[10:05] <eruin> well, J^ has made some great packages at http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ (using these myself atm) and wanted to get them in to replace the broken stuff in universe
[10:05] <eruin> but the guy responsible for getting it into breezy+1 main atleast initially didn't like the idea
[10:06] <Burgundavia> eruin, dholbach who was that? mdz?
[10:06] <zanaga> i would be really happy if just bug #13070 was fixed.. 
[10:07] <zanaga> that would mean that we had an actual working network-manager
[10:07] <eruin> mainly because the packages he's working on don't use bind9 afaik, and he's afraid users having used the universe packages would face upgrade hell (or that he'd have to spend days to avoid that)
[10:07] <Burgundavia> ah
[10:07] <ogra> eruin, nope, i didnt like the idea, when i was asked to approve the universe package
[10:07] <mdz> eruin: that would have been Diziet
[10:07] <eruin> Diziet is the main lad
[10:07] <ogra> eruin, since main and universe devs didnt even know about each other
[10:08] <eruin> that's an interesting situation indeed
[10:08] <mdz> eruin: however, further discussion has moved back toward using bind9, but splitting up the bind9 package to avoid the current problems
[10:08] <mdz> eruin: not much will be done with it until after breezy
[10:08] <ogra> eruin, so i opposed to approve an upload before there wasnt some communication going on...
[10:09] <eruin> thanks for clearing this up - I lost my buffer...
[10:12] <j^> ogra to not further repeat this myth, i was in mail contact with ian before
[10:13] <j^> also with thom and adam
[10:13] <ogra> j^, you told me you didnt commiunicate with the amin devs and had n-m ready since warty
[10:13] <ogra> s/amin/main
[10:15] <j^> ogra i said he was not responsive and not intested in nm before b+1
[10:21] <eruin> eek, keyboard stopped responding when testing volume hotkeys
[10:27] <Lathiat> eruin: haha
[10:28] <eruin> volume down set the volume to 0 with that fancy gnome graphic on-screen, volume up set the volume to max (eek) and then the keyboard was dead ;-)
[11:12] <sabdfl> so guys, would today be a fun day to go hoary -> breezy on my laptop?
[11:12] <sabdfl> or would the fun be all twisted?
[11:12] <eruin> it'd be fun
[11:12] <dholbach> sabdfl: you'd get USPLASH! :)
[11:12] <eruin> though a fresh daily install would probably be more fun
[11:12] <eruin> does anyone in here know how to properly test suspend/hibernate/sleep features?
[11:13] <eruin> I'm completely at loss
[11:13] <sladen> eruin: System->Logout->Hibernate.  Wait.  Press power-switch.  Wait.  Does it look the same as 3minutes earlier ;-)
[11:14] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, do you have one of the machines that the TestingTeam has?
[11:14] <eruin> sladen, well, my screen goes blankand things get quiet
[11:14] <eruin> but then xscreensaver seems to kick in before things really die
[11:15] <eruin> I know I saw my hibernation led glow a week or so back
[11:15] <Burgundavia> eruin, hibernate takes a second and the screen blanks right away
[11:15] <sladen> eruin: ah, okay.  You probably need to pop along to #ubuntu-laptop with details of your machine
[11:15] <ivoks> eruin: same thing on my lap too
[11:15] <eruin> I
[11:15] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: X40
[11:15] <sabdfl> so, yes, probably
[11:16] <eruin> sladen, they don't seem very talkative in there today. I'll try again tomorrow ;)
[11:16] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, don't see an X40 on this list
[11:16] <sladen> ivoks: not coming out of hibernate?  Or never going to hibernate.  (Hibernate == machine fully switched off)
[11:16] <ivoks> not going to
[11:16] <ivoks> everything stops, but then wakes up before it ends
[11:16] <eruin> yeh, same story here
[11:17] <sladen> Burgundavia: mjg59 has an X40 so things should just work
[11:17] <Burgundavia> sladen, right
[11:17] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, in general, it seems safe to jump right now
[11:17] <sabdfl> mdz: any comments on the migrate-to-breezy-today plan?
[11:17] <ivoks> another thing is broken nvidia driver, but we can't do much here... and that's too bad
[11:17] <mdz> sabdfl: migrate what/whom to breezy today?
[11:18] <mdz> sabdfl: oh, you
[11:18] <mdz> sabdfl: do it
[11:18] <mdz> sabdfl: have you seen usplash yet? ;-)
[11:18] <dholbach> sabdfl: i have it on an x40 too - i upgraded my brothers computer (a k7) yesterday and they both run nicely
[11:18] <Nafallo> :-)
[11:18] <elmo> sabdfl: I upgraded this throw-away laptop today, it was relatively painless
[11:19] <sabdfl> ok. DOIT
[11:19] <Nafallo> sabdfl: w8 till after the meeting ;-)
[11:19] <sabdfl> Nafallo: oh ye of little faith
[11:19] <Robot101> mjg59: did you fix the bluetooth? :)
[11:19] <eruin> is usplash supposed to drop off long before gdm comes up?
[11:20] <Nafallo> :-)
[11:20] <Burgundavia> eruin, known bug
[11:20] <eruin> kk
[11:21] <_derek__> my X hasn't booted in 2 months :)
[11:26] <shackan> talking about hibernate, in the last days, after hibernating it reboots rather than power off
[11:26] <mdz> _derek__: which bug#?
[11:26] <_derek__> mdz: 14120
[11:26] <_derek__> i just filed it this w/e
[11:26] <_derek__> its not a big deal
[11:27] <_derek__> i have other boxes that aren't using gdm
[11:27] <mdz> _derek__: not being able to login for 2 months sounds like a big deal...
[11:27] <mdz> in that bug, it looks like X is starting fine
[11:27] <mdz> and that the problem is with GNOME
[11:27] <_derek__> mdz: hehe, well if it were my only computer it would be a problem, but i am using my other for the time being (till it gets ironed out)
[11:28] <_derek__> mdz: yeah, it is with gdm/gnome (not sure which)
[11:28] <mdz> _derek__: make sure the loopback interface (lo) is configured properly
[11:28] <mdz> it looks like you're running netapplet or something? you could try removing all the non-main packages you have installed
[11:28] <mdz> GNOME is working for others
[11:28] <_derek__> mdz: hmm, i am not home now, but when i get home i will, lemme see if my router will let me ssh in
[11:29] <_derek__> mdz: how do i know if my lo is configed properly?
[11:30] <lifeless> who is 'xavier poinsard' ?
[11:31] <mdz> _derek__: "ifconfig"
[11:31] <ogra> lifeless, you go for MOTU i heard ? 
[11:32] <sladen> shackan: there's various issues to do with power-off;  the method was power-off method was changed
[11:32] <lifeless> ogra: working through the process.
[11:33] <_derek__> mdz: my router isn't letting me to ssh to it, but if i have an lo on there, then it is all setup?
[11:34] <mdz> _derek__: no, it needs to have IP address 127.0.0.1, be set to "up", etc.
[11:34] <ogra> lifeless, so you just miss the first meeting that you need for approval
[11:34] <_derek__> mdz: ok, when I go home I will try that, then I will try removing all non-main packages (thats going to be fun :) )
[11:34] <lifeless> ogra: I know, I'm not rushing through.
[11:34] <ogra> ah, ok :)
[11:34] <sladen> Kamion: can d-i be made to worry if you don't have a swap device ...hibernate don't work otherwise
[11:34] <lifeless> ogra: I didn't have up the wiki page describing my exploits yet, for instance.
[11:35] <_derek__> does anyone here know "Sean D. Quinn", the other person who had the same problem, him and I can discuss it (if he uses irc)
[11:35] <ogra> ah, ok
[11:35] <_derek__> mdz: also, is there a gnome log for when it starts up?
[11:36] <Burgundavia> _derek__, he does. He sometimes hanges out in -doc, afaicr
[11:36] <mdz> _derek__: ~/.xsession-errors; I think you already sent it in
[11:36] <_derek__> Burgundavia: whats his nick?
[11:36] <Burgundavia> _derek__, he just joined
[11:37] <squinn> me?
[11:37] <_derek__> squinn: can I pm you?
[11:37] <squinn> sure
[11:37] <_derek__> mdz: thanks for your help, i will let you know what i find
[11:38] <Kamion> sladen: just needs a partman-basicfilesystems sync; it's on my to-do list
[11:38] <Kamion> need to give it a quick test first
[11:39] <_derek__> squinn: you have a pm
[11:40] <slomo> can someone tell me why mplayer failed on the buildds and works in pbuilder? it seems the buildds don't get the build-depends right...
[11:42] <ivoks> slomo: even LP doesn't like my GPG :))
[11:43] <slomo> ivoks: lol... but i had your problems too... i tried until it worked ;)
[11:45] <Nafallo> slomo: thank me for that ;-)
[11:45] <Nafallo> slomo: you have an  in your name, the bug and trying came from me ;-)
[11:46] <slomo> Nafallo: ?
[11:46] <slomo> Nafallo: ah... because of launchpad ;)
[11:46] <Nafallo> slomo: yea :-)
[11:47] <sladen> Kamion: okay, thanks
[11:47] <CarlFK> I pluged in a Logitec web cam, ran $ lsusb: it didnt report anything or return me to a prompt - is this a bug?
[11:48] <sladen> CarlFK: if the webcam is known to work, yes it is a bug
[11:49] <CarlFK> sladen - I was trying to see if it was on the list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsMultimediaWebCameras
[11:49] <CarlFK> so I can't tell if it is known or not
[11:49] <CarlFK> but I am sruprised that lsusb would "hang"
[11:50] <CarlFK> unpluging it didn't seem to help.  
[11:51] <dholbach> need to go... have a nice evening
[11:51] <sladen> CarlFK: is it spca5xx ?  I have feeling the driver maybe buggy;  it hung the machine when I yanked out a webcam using that module
[11:52] <CarlFK> box says "quick cam chat"
[11:52] <CarlFK> I don't see any model #
[11:52] <sladen> CarlFK: google for the FCC ID
[11:55] <CarlFK> where do I fidn the fcc id?
[11:56] <CarlFK> found the fcc compliance statement....
[12:00] <CarlFK> http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2204,CONTENTID=10034
[12:00] <CarlFK> that is the device