=== Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Traxer|off [i=traxer@shell6.powershells.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === fs [i=fs@213.178.77.98] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === crimsun [n=crimsun@sh.nu] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-078-153.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@c5100BC63.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === lamont-away [n=lamont@192.34.35.16] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-078-153.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@c5100BC63.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Traxer|off [i=traxer@shell6.powershells.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === crimsun [n=crimsun@sh.nu] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-064-242.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@c5100BC63.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === jbailey [n=jbailey@24.203.249.139] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === chmj [n=chmj@wbs-146-138-192.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === fs [i=fs@213.178.77.98] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@81.0.188.99] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === BenC [n=bcollins@216.144.233.50] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === fs [i=fs@213.178.77.98] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [02:43] heylo [02:46] yummy...spam [05:03] morning [05:09] Eh... You're early... [05:10] yes [05:10] i couldn't sleep this night? [05:10] Dont confuse me like that. It's still an hour until bedtime. =) [05:10] jbailey: any news about binutils? [05:10] ehhehe [05:10] fabbione: No, last I saw was the elmo told doko that he was working on an update for it. [05:11] ok... [05:11] That was last Friday or so, though. [05:11] yes i recall that [05:11] I was offline the whole weekend, pretty much. [05:11] so was i === Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-136-96.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-136-96.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === Seveaz [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === luke_ [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [02:16] i got a freaking song in my head === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [02:25] what song ? [02:26] zul: Sean Paul? =) [02:26] "let's get it on 'till the early morn..." [02:33] hell no.. [02:34] its like "we are on drugs...we are alll on drugs...do you like drugs..." cant remember where i heard it though === jbailey [n=jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [03:55] yo [03:57] hey fabbione how goes it? [03:58] zul: as usual :) [03:58] you? [03:58] good...laptop is suppose to arrive today [04:00] ehehe lucky you === jbailey [n=jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [04:05] the irony is that my package is probably the last one to be deliviered [04:07] zul: why? [04:07] just my luck and the way the day is going so far [04:07] ahhh [04:46] fabbione? [04:51] its smaaaaaaallllll [04:53] zul: Got it, then? [04:54] BenC: ? [04:59] hey [04:59] how long will you be around? [04:59] also, is your OCFS2 stuff done and ready in the repo? [05:00] BenC: the last update is in baz. [05:01] i will be around for another 2/3 hours [05:01] BenC: we will need another update later anyway === desrt hits benc over the head with inotify [05:02] BenC: http://oss.oracle.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=544 and http://oss.oracle.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=558 [05:02] BenC; i just posted a patch to bugzilla... it'd be really awesome if it was in the next build [05:02] BenC: otherwise we are fine imho [05:02] BenC: upstream is working on it right now and we have a test setup at the DC. [05:02] ubuntu's inotify is broken [05:02] BenC: there is also 2.6.12.6 out... [05:02] yeah [05:03] desrt: what's broken with it? [05:03] fabbione; it reissues watch descriptors [05:03] fabbione; due to an off-by-one error (one-liner patch) [05:03] desrt: bug #? [05:03] http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14364 [05:03] desrt: ah ok.. is the fix upstream already? [05:03] yes [05:03] in 2.6.13 [05:03] perfect [05:04] robert love also just personally looked over the bug report and told me it looks OK [05:04] fabbione: that's a question I had, how do we move to new kernels, if at all? [05:04] are we at a stage where breezy is just going to be 2.6.12? [05:04] BenC: yes.. breezy is going to be .12 [05:04] BenC: Preview Freeze is in 2 days [05:05] so i'd say we talk with mdz before uploading this kernel === mdz [n=mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [05:05] spooky [05:05] before uploading 2.6.12-8.12? [05:05] yeah, very === sivang [n=sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [05:05] mdz: BenC and I were wondering if we can upload 2.6.12-8 [05:06] or do you prefer us to wait after Preview Freeze? [05:06] here's the thing, I want to get 2.6.12-8.12 uploaded because of the recent ABI changes [05:06] BenC: we should get the inotify fixes and 2.6.12.6 in too [05:06] yeah [05:06] since we break the ABI, it's a good idea to push the crack in [05:07] I would prefer that you do it now [05:07] I was thinking of holding off for some more fixes to go in (mjg sent me a lot yesterday) [05:07] do matthew's fixes change the ABI still further? [05:07] so do the 8.12 now, and then 8.13 in a few days will be ok? [05:07] no [05:07] yes, that's fine [05:08] though I'm considering doing a Colony on thursday [05:08] so not thursday [05:08] BenC: if you commit everything in today i can do the ABI dance tomorrow as soon as i wake up [05:08] a lot of these fixes would be nice if you are doing a Colony [05:08] that would make us gain 12 hours [05:08] and make Colony for thursday [05:08] yeah, we can tag team it [05:09] mdz: would that work for you? [05:09] what time do you wake up, I really want to do most of the next upload to get the system down, but have you around to answer questions [05:10] BenC: it depends.. usually around 4 UTC [05:10] but we need to get elmo or Kamion or mdz around to NEW the packages [05:10] + we need to prebuild them everywhere to get the new ABI [05:10] brb [05:10] so that's around midnight for me [05:11] I can do that [05:11] mmm. thanks for the fast response, guys :) [05:12] desrt: I see the patch, and it looks good to me [05:12] fabbione: what time UTC would that be? [05:12] BenC; :) [05:12] mdz: i wake up at 4 UTC.... [05:12] cheers [05:12] mdz: so if BenC will do everything and i only need to be around.. [05:13] mdz: i'd say we can finish in the usual 4/6 hours if there is an ftp-master around [05:13] BenC: if you want to upload all yourself, we can gain quite a lot of time... [05:13] main thing I need help with is creating the source package, and make sure I have put everythign together right [05:14] BenC: that's the easiest part :) [05:14] yeah, but do I need to kill off any baz stuff in the debian tree? [05:14] BenC: that's even easier ;) [05:15] BenC: you got the source package with the debian/ dir from baz... [05:15] and I do the dpkg-buildpackage -S, right? [05:15] cd .. [05:15] dpkg-source -b -i linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12 [05:15] mkdir temp [05:15] cd temp [05:15] dpkg-source -x ../linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-8.XX.dsc [05:15] TADA [05:16] no more baz crap in the debian dir :) [05:16] cd linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12 [05:16] ah, so dpkg-source does it [05:16] dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -m'Ben I rock Collins' -k$yourkeyid [05:16] done ;) [05:16] upload to jackass.ubuntu.com in ftp.. no need to use any fancy dir [05:17] BenC: iirc there is a flag that you can pass to dpkg-buildpackage directly... [05:17] but i can never remember it [05:17] it's probably -i [05:17] what's the i386 dev machine name? [05:17] concordia [05:17] yeah, I think it is [05:17] that's it, thanks [05:17] use linux32 dchroot -c breezy-i386 [05:17] it's an amd64... [05:17] alright, I'll do these patches, test build, and then upload later today [05:18] so you get both at the price of one ;) [05:18] BenC: that's ok.. remember to commit everything in baz ;) [05:18] mdz: anyone be around, so 21:00 UTC? [05:18] say* [05:19] BenC: 2100 today, or 2100 tomorrow? [05:19] today [05:19] less than 6 hours [05:19] ok [05:19] I'll be around, certainly [05:19] BenC: i won't be around at that time.... [05:19] so you will have to do it yourself... [05:19] fabbione: no problem, I think I got all I need [05:19] but i am sure you can manage fine... [05:19] thanks [05:19] make sure elmo will be around to do the byhands [05:20] mdz: will you take care of NEW? [05:20] BenC: also.. ask Kamion (since he is around) to prepare d-i... [05:20] BenC: if he can... [05:21] otherwise i can do it for you now... [05:21] fabbione: I can process new binaries, but elmo should do the d-i processing [05:21] mdz: yeps.. [05:21] fabbione: but if we need elmo anyway, he can do all of it at once [05:21] so there is no point in splitting it between the two of us [05:22] mdz: right :) but if both of you know.. it's better... we are not depended on one that can actually die from one sec to another because of a lightning stroke... [05:22] elmo will be around [05:22] and still make Colony [05:23] BenC: i did forward you a mail on how to bump the ABI in D-I [05:23] did you check with elmo if you your upload privileges have been fixed? [05:23] s/fixed/granted... [05:23] good question [05:25] ARGH.. brb.. wife is in high bitching mode today [05:25] elmo claims no knowledge of me being ok'd to do uploads :) [05:25] so I guess that's a no [05:26] fabbione: raise the pimp hand, and then...do as your told like a good husband :) [05:27] he's going to take care of it though [05:30] re [05:30] eheheh [05:39] BenC: ok.. so i am good to go that you will do all of it... [05:39] if something breaks down horribly, i will be around at 4 UTC :) [05:39] or on a plane to somewher without IP [05:40] hehe [05:45] BenC: then carpet bomb his house [05:45] zul: how do you think I got him to act so quickly? [05:45] elmo's are very furry and flamable [05:46] lol [05:46] ahha === zul is installing breezy on his new laptop [05:46] zul: you got it??? === BenC knows james would hate that joke :) [05:46] ahhaha [05:49] fabbione: came like an hour ago [05:50] zul: is it nice? [05:50] ok, wont be paying attention to IRC for the next few hours [05:51] BenC: just answer my question [05:51] which one? [05:51] if you are going to collect the ABI for all 6 arches, or do i need to take care of SCC [05:51] I'll collect them [05:51] perfect! [05:51] or attempt to anyway [05:51] Kamion also wants me to do linux-meta [05:51] BenC: well you have i386/amd64/ppc/ia64 at the DC [05:52] you miss sparc/hppa [05:52] BenC: yes. linux-meta and linux-restricted-modules are in the list of pkgs that we discussed on irc... [05:52] kernel -> linux-restriceted-modules -> linux-meta -> d-i [05:52] fabbione: very nice [05:52] zul: eheh enjoy it :) [05:52] zul: i am considering to buy a powerbook... [05:52] oh i will...now i can code in the basement during the summer [05:53] I need to get a laptop before UBZ [05:53] BenC: and a passport :) [05:53] donations accepted [05:54] BenC: talk to mjg59 for one.. on what to get ;) [05:54] BenC: same here... [05:54] i dont need a passport i just need sponsorshipt [05:55] zul: send me your laptop, and consider it done :) [05:55] :P [05:55] im off for lunch...biab [05:56] later zul [06:40] that is a nice laptop but i have to put it away since i need to work [08:09] BenC: Did you see the conversation in #ubuntu-devel yesterday about needing to find a way of asking the currently running kernel to regenerate its initramfs? [08:10] jbailey: you will need to explain me tomorrow why you want something like that... [08:11] i gotta run now.. [08:11] fabbione: By edit of my boss. =) [08:11] edict, rather. [08:11] yes ok.. to achieve what? [08:12] So that new usplashes can update the initramfs. [08:13] they can do it, even without asking the kernel to regenerate the initramfs [08:13] they just have to call the correct mkinitramfs [08:13] Right, except that they have no good way of knowing who's running, who's installed, etc. [08:13] I think the right solution is initramfs bootloader magic, perhaps. [08:14] i wonder why the kernel-team has been never asked to look at the usplash implementation... [08:14] u <- userland :) [08:14] fix it there :P [08:15] now i don't want to sound silly, but people have been pushing crack into the kernel.. [08:15] Bzzt. initramfs belongs to the kernel, you produce it so nothing else should touch it. [08:15] without the kernel team being exactly informed [08:15] jbailey: yes.. usplash is touching initramfs [08:15] that's part of why I like the idea of bootloader assembly. [08:15] and now the kernel team needs to find a solution for what i believe is a design error.. [08:15] That means that the kernel wouldn't have to do that assembly - takes responsibility for it away from you. [08:16] anyway.. i think i am too tired to appreciate usplash, given that it doesn't even work on my machines :) [08:16] Eh, really? [08:16] better to go and get some food [08:16] How does it fail? [08:16] Enjoy, Fabio. [08:16] jbailey: i don't get anything displayed [08:16] And hello from Angie. =) [08:17] give a hug to her :) [08:17] cya === lamont [n=lamont@15.238.5.156] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [08:40] jbailey: there is no way the kernel can address that problem, if not providing an extra info to usplash like: touch /lib/kernel/2.6.12-8.isanofficialubuntukernel [08:40] at that point usplash can parse that dir and update the specific initramfs [08:41] dir or configfile or whatever.. but i guess you get the idea [08:41] jbailey: have you tried out those xen packages from ubuntu-devel? [08:43] zul: I've not. [08:44] fabbione: The kernel could take an md5sum at generation time, and regenerate the version of the initrd pointed to by /initrd.img iff the md5sum still matches. [08:45] jbailey: i don't see how that can help.. the kernel is not supposed to touch stuff... [08:45] and it's truely pointless to ask the kernel to do a job that userland can and in a much simpler way [08:45] Eh? === jbailey smokes some of Fabio's pipe [08:45] This is all packaging. =) [08:46] jbailey: ok.. as i understand it: [08:46] - kernel is installed [08:46] - usplash is installed [08:46] now.. [08:46] initramfs needs to be updated by usplash... [08:46] right? [08:46] Well, it needs updating because of a usplash update. [08:46] because each time usplash is update, the user need to reconfigure the kernel as it is now [08:47] perfect.. than we agree [08:47] Right, except that the kernel owns the initramfs [08:47] Or rather, the kernel package owns the initramfs. =) [08:47] wrong... [08:47] the kernel package generates the initramfs [08:47] it doesn't own it [08:47] Sure it does. The 'touched it last' rule. [08:47] it creates it :) [08:47] What I think could happen is that as soon as you create it, you generate an md5sum hash of it. [08:48] yes, but what is the problem you want to address? [08:48] The problem that you don't know if the user has touched it in the meantime. [08:48] you want to avoid usplash updating an initramfs [08:49] The usplash has no way of knowing that information. It doesn't touch the initramfs at all atm. [08:49] hmmm jeee.... [08:50] well what kind of changes do we expect from user to initramfs? [08:50] via /etc/mkinitramfs ? [08:50] Dude, who knows? =) [08:50] These are *users* we're talking about. =) [08:50] yeah ok.. we will need to change this rule for breezy+1 [08:51] But this mechanism could be used to update lvm, evms, or *mumble*. [08:51] we can't keep working around all possible combinations.. especially in front of a 3/5 years support [08:51] Right. I'd love to see it done as boot time assembly. [08:51] you mean bulding the initramfs at boot time? [08:52] i have a better idea :) [08:52] Right, by the bootloaders. [08:52] I have this vague idea that we could do something like: [08:53] Have grub assemble the initramfs at boottime based on whatever modules seem obvious. [08:53] jbailey: grub for i386.. what about the others? [08:53] As part os S99make_it_possible_to_recover_my_system, then generate a static version of that initramfs. [08:53] That way there's a recovery option that should be guaranteed to work. [08:53] jbailey: i have a better idea... [08:53] Sure. =) [08:53] let's hack on http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/tcc/tccboot.html [08:54] so that it includes an lspci [08:54] we will build the kernel from sources at boottime [08:54] with the proper hw configuration [08:54] we will build everything inline [08:54] and all the devices that we know can't be inside a pc.. as modules [08:55] :) [09:06] we should build the whole kernel as just objects and then do linking on install :) [09:07] BenC: that's too easy :) [09:07] it's more fun to build it from sources [09:07] what would be nice, actually, is if the device driver objects were the same whether they were module targets or built-in targets [09:07] just the linking would be different [09:08] hmmmm [09:08] you can probably achieve that... [09:08] yeah, would require a change in the module abi I'm sure [09:08] nope... [09:09] it's easier than you think... [09:09] afaik the stuff you build inline are all the objects compiles at STAGE1 of the kernel [09:09] modules get STAGE1 -> STAGE2 [09:10] yeah, but module.h changes a lot of stuff (init/remove) depending on -DMODULE [09:10] in stage2 from the object created in STAGE1, the .mod.c gets created, builded and linked... [09:10] I think the driver object is actually a bit different [09:10] it could be [09:10] they may have thought of this when they did the 2.6 kbuild system [09:10] if you look in a mod.c that's created by that file we fixed for sparc... [09:11] you see exactly the module interface... [09:11] it's worth a try.. also because it's pretty easy [09:11] well if the entire module abi is in the .mod.c, then there you have it [09:12] BenC: the only thing i am afraid is code that does: [09:12] someone just needs to write the tools and logic to do an install time linking of a static kernel, with modules just for things like hotpluggable devices [09:12] ifdef CONFIG_FOO=m [09:12] endif [09:12] or something like that [09:12] yeah, I think ieee1394 may have (or maybe it's gone now) things like that [09:13] there's also the ones that have hardcoded "#ifdef MODULE" [09:13] yeah i have seen a bunch of those [09:14] I think the scsi layer is littered with them [09:14] which defeats most of the advantage of it === Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-kernel [09:14] yeps [09:48] later === doko [n=doko@dsl-084-059-064-242.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === mdz [n=mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-kernel === fs [i=fs@213.178.77.98] has joined #ubuntu-kernel