[12:02] <CarlFK> huh - reboot and now usb shows: 046d:092c Logitech, Inc.
[12:02] <CarlFK> which is close to USB ID 046d:0920...
[12:11] <CarlFK> oh good.  "Need to get 0B of archives."
[12:17] <ogra> Kamion, still around ? 
[12:24] <jordi> Does anyone know how the MoveToOFTC spec is progressing?
[12:25] <jordi> Ubuntu/Canonical stuff is the only stuff I can't easily get rid of to be feenode free.
[12:27] <kent> jordi, MoveToOFTC, what is that?
[12:28] <jordi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GetOffFreenodeSpec?highlight=%28freenode%29
[12:28] <Kamion> ogra: not really
[12:29] <Nafallo> jordi: wasn't that denied? :-)
[12:29] <Kamion> ogra: I'll read messages later
[12:29] <jordi> Nafallo: dunno.
[12:29] <jordi> It'd be sad.
[12:29] <Seveas> jordi, it's not progressing at all
[12:30] <ogra> Kamion, i just wanted to ask if you could have a quick look at the daily build script, it has stopped yesterday it seems
[12:30] <Seveas> in fact, Ubuntu is in the progress of registering as a group on freenode
[12:30] <jordi> because it'll totally defeat my struggle to get off this network
[12:30] <jordi> Seveas: urgh.
[12:30] <ogra> Kamion, for edubuntu indeed
[12:35] <bob2> bah
[12:35] <mdz> ogra: are you sure you have the same versions of everything on ltsp and the local install?
[12:36] <bob2> the battery applet stopped noticing that I have ac power
[12:36] <bob2> so I was fairly convinced my power supply was screwed until I ran "acpi -V"
[12:36] <ogra> i upgraded my local install before testing, the ltsp install is from this afternoon
[12:36] <bob2> also, -V = --version, kthxbye
[12:36] <ogra> so i'd suppose yes, the version is the same...
[12:36] <ogra> but i run a amd64 laptop as client... it could be arch specific
[12:37] <Kamion> ogra: this morning's build didn't happen because mdz was running a manual build at the time
[12:37] <ogra> (ltsp == i386, local == amd64)
[12:37] <mdz> ogra: wait, you are talking about two different machines?  if so, that isn't surprising
[12:37] <Kamion> ogra: it'll happen tomorrow assuming the same thing doesn't happen again
[12:37] <ogra> mdz, nope i talk about my laptop being used in i386 mode
[12:37] <Kamion> there's nothing actually wrong with the cron job
[12:37] <mdz> I thought you meant it was different on the same hardware as an LTSP client vs. a standard boot
[12:37] <ogra> Kamion, ok, just wanted to be sure to have a CD to look at tomorrow :)
[12:38] <mdz> Kamion: is there any particular reason that the daily builds are all scheduled separately?
[12:38] <mdz> Kamion: rather than just running everything sequentially starting at a given time
[12:38] <ogra> mdz, its the same HW, but different SW on top... 
[12:39] <mdz> ogra: try it with the same software
[12:39] <Kamion> mdz: not really, historical
[12:39] <ogra> hmm...
[12:39] <Kamion> plus I think different people wanted them at different times originally
[12:39] <ogra> do we have working liveCD builds currently?
[12:39] <Kamion> it would be quite irritating to have to wait for a load of jobs to complete before starting a manual one, though, rather than just waiting for one
[12:40] <Kamion> I think a master job would want to leave some space in betwen
[12:40] <Kamion> between
[12:47] <ogra> hey AndyFitz 
[12:47] <AndyFitz> g'day ogra
[12:47] <AndyFitz> ready for another drop ?
[12:48] <ogra> any news on the icon front ?
[12:48] <Nafallo> morning AndyFitz :-)
[12:48] <ogra> yeah, absolutely
[12:48] <AndyFitz> morning Nafallo
[12:48] <AndyFitz> ogra,  great I'll email you the tarball
[12:48] <ogra> yeah
[12:48] <ogra> AndyFitz, did you follow the latest ML thread ? 
[12:49] <ogra> i'm not sure if i like the idea of a fullscreen splash...
[12:50] <ogra> especially since it doesnt scale... you'll need a huge pic 
[12:50] <mdz> ogra: the current i386 live build works (or the most recent one I tried)
[12:50] <AndyFitz> holy crap. that was a splash ?  I only had time to look at the picture.  I thought it was a GDM login 
[12:51] <ogra> mdz, just downloading to test with it... but it looks like it will take some hours, i have no live to rsync here
[12:51] <ogra> AndyFitz, nope that was a proposal for a fullscreen splash
[12:51] <AndyFitz> I do like apple's policy of taking a snapshot of the desktop (and each blank application window ) and loading it next time to hide all that yucky widget loading in the background 
[12:51] <AndyFitz> ogra,  I'll try one at my resolution and see if it works  ( I'm kinda scared )
[12:52] <ogra> yes, i think the splash has to be something around 2048 width at least... 
[12:52] <ogra> to cover all resolutions...
[12:52] <ogra> this will load slooow
[12:53] <opi> Rosetta is additive
[12:53] <mdz> ogra: what are the edubuntu blockers for preview?
[12:54] <ogra> mdz, sorting the preseeding ... i didnt want to abuse Kamion today already but have it on my list for tomorrow...
[12:54] <mdz> ogra: what needs to be changed with the preseeding?
[12:54] <mdz> ogra: everything else works?
[12:55] <ogra> mdz, edubuntu-server is not in the default install, ltsp-build-client should run automatically, postfix should be preseeded for local transport only
[12:55] <ogra> mdz, additionally the current default should move to an optional workstation install
[12:56] <ogra> mdz, edubuntu-artwork isnt completely sorted since i have to sort out which license it has to be under (almo is on it with sabdfl)
[12:56] <ogra> s/almo/elmo
[12:56] <mdz> ogra: postfix?
[12:57] <ogra> mdz, yes, something depends on it... i'll have to touch the server seed anyway, i'll look if i can get rid of it
[12:57] <mdz> ogra: don't install postfix by default
[12:58] <ogra> mdz, how do i supress it if a server package depends on it... 
[12:58] <mdz> ogra: you fix the server package
[12:58] <ogra> let me look which, one second
[12:58] <mdz> or don't install it
[12:58] <Burgundavia> jdub, are the p.g.o rss feeds dead?
[12:58] <ogra> mdz ok
[12:59] <ogra> mdz, mysql ... 
[01:00] <mdz> ogra: fix it or don't install it; we don't want an MTA by default
[01:00] <ogra> mdz, but that can go since we dont have mediawiki and moodle works with either postfix or mysql... i preferred postfix from the start...
[01:00] <pitti> ogra: sure that you don't mean postgresql?
[01:00] <mdz> postfix or mysql?
[01:00] <ogra> pitti, err, yes
[01:00] <ogra> mdz, i meant postgres... sorry
[01:01] <mdz> ogra: you meant postgresql from the beginning? or only in your last sentence?
[01:01] <ogra> only in the last sentence
[01:01] <ogra> mysql depends mailx, mailx depends <anymailserver>
[01:02] <ogra> that draws in postfix... i'm just changing the seed
[01:04] <AndyFitz> ogra,  unless there is a way to size the splash resolution from the gnome-set resolution   the login splash is absurd
[01:05] <ogra> yup
[01:05] <AndyFitz> I'll be right back
[01:07] <ogra> sabdfl, wb
[01:07] <sabdfl> breezy update went fine. well done guys
[01:08] <sabdfl> now running warty->hoary->breezy
[01:16] <pitti> sabdfl: does hal run properly after you rebooted your box? elmo did a h->b upgrade today, which broke
[01:17] <mdz> mako: do you have some clarity on the input method situation yet?
[01:18] <mdz> sabdfl: if you have an IDE disk, check that you didn't end up with DMA disabled
[01:18] <sabdfl> mdz: how do i check?
[01:18] <sabdfl> pitti: hmm... /etc/init.d/dbus restart shows hal restarting
[01:18] <sabdfl> but
[01:18] <zyga> pitti: if you have a moment I'd like to ask you about an issue with various .po files I tried to explain yesterday
[01:19] <sabdfl> on loging, i get a dialog warning abut not being able to talk to HAL
[01:19] <pitti> sabdfl: $ sudo hdparm /dev/hda
[01:19] <pitti> sabdfl: you get that dialog before or after restarting dbus?
[01:19] <sabdfl>  using_dma    =  1 (on)
[01:19] <sabdfl> pitti: after a reboot
[01:19] <bob2> is dbus still restartable at all?
[01:19] <sabdfl> on login
[01:19] <sabdfl> hey bob2!
[01:19] <ogra> bob2, why shouldnt it ? 
[01:20] <sabdfl> restarting dbus gives 4 [ ok ] 's
[01:20] <pitti> sabdfl: ok, I ask because many apps don't reconnect to hal after you restart it
[01:20] <ogra> bob2, its not nice to do it... but you can :)
[01:20] <pitti> sabdfl: ok, so it wasn't running properly after system boot?
[01:20] <bob2> ogra: I saw talk on the dbus list of not supporting it at all
[01:20] <pitti> sabdfl: this sounds like elmo's problem, I try to reproduce it tomorrow
[01:20] <bob2> heya sabdfl
[01:20] <pitti> sabdfl: thanks
[01:21] <ogra> bob2, yes, in the future... currently you can still do it.. and things like network-manager do it by default for example...
[01:21] <bob2> ah, I see
[01:21] <pitti> bob2: right, we eventually gave up restarting it automatically on upgrades since all of the upstreams are against us
[01:21] <pitti> and we can't patch the world
[01:22] <bob2> yeah :|
[01:22] <mdz> mako: all I have ever seen so far is "this works for my use case"
[01:22] <pitti> ogra: no, don't; you will break the desktop if you restart dbus now
[01:22] <ogra> pitti, we can, we are just not enough yet :)
[01:22] <ajmitch> pitti: ouch - restarting dbus is needed for more & more stuff :(
[01:22] <ogra> ajmitch, nope
[01:22] <ajmitch> ogra: no?
[01:22] <ogra> ajmitch, the opposite is right
[01:22] <pitti> ajmitch: don't, at least not in breezy
[01:23] <mdz> pitti: er, so upstream expects that whenever dbus is upgraded, the user must reboot?
[01:23] <ajmitch> ogra: the opposite just doesn't work in some cases
[01:23] <mdz> that seems arrogant
[01:23] <pitti> mdz: yes, sadly
[01:23] <bob2> mdz: yes
[01:23] <ajmitch> ogra: take avahi for example - dbus won't pick up the new avahi info when it is installed
[01:23] <pitti> mdz: there was a long and heated discussion about it, and we tried to defend our strategy
[01:23] <bob2> it seemed to be a SuSe guy in favour of it
[01:23] <ogra> ajmitch, at least for registering new services it works
[01:23] <pitti> mdz: eventually we got gnome-volume-manager and update-notifier right
[01:23] <bob2> guess they're not used to incremental upgrades ;)
[01:24] <ogra> ouch
[01:24] <ajmitch> ogra: I prefer not to get involved in such things, really :)
[01:24] <pitti> mdz: but that still left us with a plethora of dbus-using apps that don't reconnect
[01:25] <pitti> ok, good night guys; I'm terribly tited
[01:25] <pitti> tired, even
[01:25] <bob2> seeya, pitti
[01:25] <pitti> d'oh
[01:25] <jdub> pitti: night :)
[01:25] <ogra> night pitti 
[01:25] <bob2> hehe
[01:25] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[01:25] <pitti> Hi jdub
[01:25] <ogra> morning jdub
[01:26] <bob2> jdub: de-ensconse yourself
[01:26] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[01:27] <sabdfl> mdz: will call now
[01:27] <_derek__> mdz: are you around?
[01:28] <mdz> _derek__: yes, but about to receive a phone call
[01:29] <_derek__> mdz: alright, no biggie, let me know when you have a minute
[01:32] <pef> I leave, good night !
[01:37] <jdub> jbailey: around?
[01:43] <_derek__> anyone know what wnck-applet is? or what package its in?
[01:44] <ogra> gnome-applets ? 
[01:44] <_derek__> ogra: so thats in main not universe?
[01:45] <ogra> most liekly, yes
[01:46] <_derek__> so i don't think thats fubaring my comp
[01:46] <ogra> some people call it the tasklist ;)
[01:46] <ogra> or bar...
[01:47] <_derek__> call what the tasklist?
[01:47] <_derek__> oh
[01:47] <_derek__> wnk-applet
[01:47] <_derek__> gotcha
[01:50] <_derek__>   can anyone post what a normal .xsession-errors should look like?
[01:50] <bob2> ideally empty
[01:50] <_derek__> hmmm, ideally, yes, in practical implementations is it?
[01:51] <opi> or with some warning if you try to use unsupported modules
[01:51] <opi> mostly warnings
[01:51] <_derek__> according to mdz, mine looks like it started x normally, but i have a lot of errors
[01:51] <bob2> X itself doesn't say anything there
[01:52] <bob2> s/X/the X server/
[01:52] <ogra> that goes to /var/log, but stops if the X server is up
[01:52] <_derek__> hmm, my /var/log shows it being up, so what would the xsession-errors pertain to?
[01:52] <_derek__> just gdm?
[01:53] <ogra> your X session...
[01:53] <ogra> no matter if gdm, kdm or xdm ;)
[01:53] <bob2> X clients
[01:53] <_derek__> hmmm, ok
[01:55] <_derek__> what do errors like this mean:
[01:55] <_derek__> _IceTransTransNoListen: unable to find transport: tcp
[01:55] <_derek__> _IceTransmkdir: ERROR: euid != 0,directory /dev/X will not be created.
[01:55] <_derek__> _IceTransmkdir: ERROR: Cannot create /dev/X
[01:56] <bob2> is /tmp normal?
[01:56] <_derek__> are you asking me? i have no idea if it is or isn't
[01:57] <ogra> i wonder what app needs tcp for a X connection... tcp is disabled by default ...
[01:58] <bob2> I was guessing that /tmp might be trashed
[01:58] <bob2> so ICE went to using tcp instead of a fifo
[01:58] <ogra> so this error is normal, but there obviously is a bug in an X app
[01:58] <bob2> or socket or whatever
[01:58] <_derek__> bob2: how do i fix that?
[01:58] <ogra> ah, as fallback you mean
[01:58] <bob2> yeah
[01:59] <ogra> _derek__, look if /tmp or the partition holding it is full
[02:00] <_derek__> ogra: as in tmpfs?
[02:00] <bob2> no
[02:00] <_derek__> cuz i have one partition
[02:00] <bob2>  /tmp is by default on /
[02:00] <_derek__> and that has 30gigs free
[02:00] <_derek__> yeah
[02:00] <bob2> and ls -ld /tmp
[02:01] <_derek__> _IceTransTransNoListen: unable to find transport: tcp
[02:01] <_derek__> _IceTransmkdir: ERROR: euid != 0,directory /dev/X will not be created.
[02:01] <_derek__> _IceTransmkdir: ERROR: Cannot create /dev/X
[02:02] <_derek__> sorry for the wront c/p
[02:02] <_derek__> drwxrwxrwt  10 root root 98304 2005-08-30 19:44 /tmp
[02:06] <_derek__> bob2, ogra does that look ok?
[02:07] <ogra> yup
[02:07] <_derek__> so now i basically have to go one by one removing packages from universe until i find it?
[02:07] <_derek__> what is causing it?
[02:08] <bob2> er, no
[02:08] <_derek__> bob2: mdz reccomended removing all universe apps
[02:08] <bob2> hah
[02:08] <_derek__> bob2: i really didn't want to do that
[02:10] <_derek__> bob2: so what do you have in mind?
[02:10] <bob2> strace'ing things until you find it
[02:11] <bob2> or poking /tmp more
[02:11] <bob2> good luck
[02:11] <_derek__> stracing? 
[02:11] <bob2> the magic of strace
[02:11] <desrt> is there a registration fee for BelowZero?
[02:11] <Burgundavia> desrt, no
[02:12] <desrt> so what's this "sponsorship" deal?
[02:12] <Burgundavia> desrt, funding people to get there and stay there
[02:12] <desrt> ahh.  that's very generous
[02:12] <desrt> thanks for the info
[02:23] <_derek__> bob2: what do you mean by poking /tmp? i don't know what i am looking at in here
[02:29] <_derek__>  ogra, are you still around?
[02:29] <ogra> partially..
[02:29] <_derek__> are you able to give me anymore guidance
[02:30] <ogra> i have no idea what is causing it... i suspect a broken app... most likely from universe...
[02:30] <_derek__> ogra: would that show up in my ps aux?
[02:30] <ogra> you seem to have something running that needs a tcp X connection which is wrong...
[02:31] <ogra> probably...
[02:31] <mdz> _derek__: please take this to #ubuntu
[02:31] <_derek__> mdz: ok
[02:39] <ogra> whee, powerpc looks bad on the daily report ...
[02:41] <Nafallo> ogra: royal had no harddrive space a while :-)
[02:41] <ogra> yup
[02:41] <reb> can anyone tell me why metacity is dying on breezy?
[02:41] <reb> can't log into gnome, kde, xfce work fine
[02:41] <Nafallo> it isn't here :-)
[02:42] <ogra> it reflects very well in the daily build report of edubuntu here... 56 uninstallable packages for ppc
[02:42] <bob2>  /topic
[02:42] <reb> err sorry
[03:25] <mjg59> Robot101: I believe so
[03:30] <Robot101> mjg59: and the RTC?
[03:32] <mjg59> Robot101: Not yet
[04:07] <lunitik> just out of curiosity... are there technical reasons why Ubuntu still uses discover1 (1.7.6) when discover is at version 2.0.4?
[04:08] <lunitik> (2 seperate packages)
[04:08] <lunitik> discover 2.x is supposed to be much better... perhaps it will be more successful with soundcards?
[04:09] <jdub> lunitik: we don't really actively use discover at all
[04:10] <lunitik> jdub: I thought it was still used during install?
[04:37] <lunitik> hmm... one more thing... Davyd states in his preview of 2.12 that GNOME includes a clipboard feature now... however this doesn't seem to have gotten into Ubuntu... why is this?
[04:38] <daniels> lunitik: (btw, we only use discover1 to pick which video card to use, that's it)
[04:39] <lunitik> daniels: oh... many people (including myself with my old box) had issues with snd-via82xx with discover1 ... don't recall any issues with discover... this is why I brought it up...
[04:40] <lunitik> Seems almost all sound card issues in the help channel are related to that module though... at least 4-5 people in the last day have had the issue... no other cards seem to have this issue though afaik
[04:40] <jdub> lunitik: it is in breezy
[04:41] <jdub> lunitik: it's not a clipboard manager in the gui sense of the word
[04:41] <lunitik> jdub: I'm using Breezy... if it is there... its certainly not working....
[04:41] <daniels> lunitik: then it's nothing to do with discover vs discover1, because we use hotplug for that.  that being said, snd-via82xx always worked fine for me in my i386.
[04:42] <lunitik> (I just closed firefox, wanting to copy text to my Gaim convo... and it didn't work...)
[04:43] <lunitik> daniels: worked fine for me about 90% of my installs also... however, sometimes I encountered issues... and others are having simular ones...
[04:44] <daniels> lunitik: specific bug reports would be nice, because 'sometimes I encountered issues, and others are having similar ones' isn't really that helpful tbh
[04:44] <lunitik> daniels: certainly, someone with the technical know how might want to look into it... 4-5 people in one day with the same issue is probably not a good sign  :)
[04:45] <lunitik> daniels: basically... according to all things you can look at... it _should_ have been working... /dev/dsp was there... user in audio group... module loaded etc... but no sound... hard to give further details when it appears there aren't any  :(
[05:06] <bddebian> Any C++ guru's awake?
[05:26] <infinity> Who is our resident java toolchain guru?
[05:26] <elmo> jbailey and wasabi
[05:27] <jdub> elmo's version of "NOT ME!"
[05:27] <bddebian> Heh
[05:27] <jbailey> infinity: Is this something worth staying awake for?
[05:27] <jdub> jbailey: oh, just to mention that scsi seems to be a sticking point in general for initramfs atm
[05:28] <jdub> jbailey: had some comments from vmware about it
[05:28] <bddebian> jbailey: No, but I'm sure mine is! ;-)
[05:28] <jdub> jbailey: we should hook up for that sysfs testing you watned to do
[05:28] <jdub> at a more appropriate juncture :)
[05:28] <jbailey> jdub: Right. There's a bug about vmware that's assigned to benc.  I don't have the number handy.  But it's to make the BusLogic PCI bits in the kernel actually provide a pci mapping.
[05:28] <jdub> aha, that'd be it
[05:28] <jbailey> jdub: Yup, had a friend over this evening.  About 4 hours before this time tomorrow work for you?
[05:29] <jdub> yeo
[05:29] <jdub> yep
[05:29] <jbailey> jdub: Your SATA stuff not working bothers me, since my SATA works.
[05:29] <jbailey> And the drivers do appear to be present.
[05:30] <jbailey> Oh well, sleep now.
[05:30] <jdub> night!
[05:32] <fabbione> morning
[05:32] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[05:32] <fabbione> jbailey: eh no.. you can't go to sleep before i wake up :)
[05:33] <infinity> jbailey : No, I'll bug wasabi instead. :)
[05:39] <elmo> nobody   19279  119  0.5  33720 20452 ?        R    04:39   0:02  \_ /usr/bin/rsync --no-detach --daemon --config /etc/rsyncd.conf
[05:39] <elmo> okay, what kind of math is that?
[05:39] <elmo> 119% CPU?
[05:44] <fabbione> meh..
[05:49] <robitaille> elmo I have a laptop with a battery fully-charged at 118%.  Must be Ubuntu's fuzzy math...
[05:56] <infinity> elmo : multiple CPUs, each accounting for 100%?
[06:43] <infinity> mdz : ping.
[06:43] <mdz> pong
[06:43] <infinity> Do you still maintain the whole mythtv dependency chain?
[06:43] <mako> mdz: on a certain level all we're every going to get is "this works for my case" in terms of input methods
[06:44] <infinity> mythgallery and mythmusic never got updated for the new mythtv dev packages.
[06:44] <mako> mdz: i think we should settle for the best integration with the range of libraries available and with gnome (and kde also if possible)
[06:44] <mdz> mako: for breezy I think it's too late for anything other than "this is the one true course we can all agree on"
[06:44] <mako> at the moment, that's SCIM, but every language is still going to need to be solved one-by-one.. sometimes more than once
[06:45] <mdz> mako: I don't think we should start bundling random packages because someone likes them, not now
[06:45] <jdub> IIIMF seems to be 'teh future'
[06:45] <mdz> infinity: depends on your notion of "maintain"
[06:45] <mako> the problem is that almost none of these solutions are mutually exclusive
[06:45] <mdz> infinity: I "maintain" them in my "spare time"
[06:45] <infinity> Yeah, I don't know anyone who uses Chinese inputs, so I have no hard data there, but SICM seems to do the job for japanese input.
[06:46] <mako> infinity: well, japanese with a backend.. often anthy
[06:46] <infinity> mdz : Right.  Any guesses about how badly they'll blow up if I just change the build-deps to use the new -dev packages, rather than finding 0.18 upstream sources for them?
[06:46] <mdz> infinity: badly
[06:46] <infinity> mako : Yes, SCIM+anthy was what was tested here with some success.
[06:46] <mdz> infinity: fortunately, I already packaged the new versions and they just need syncs
[06:46] <infinity> mdz : Ahh.  Cool.
[06:46] <mdz> infinity: deb-src http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/debian unstable mythtv
[06:47] <mdz> some of the ones that I don't use aren't quite right.  I need co-maintainers.
[06:48] <infinity> mdz : I don't see mythmusic and mythgallery there.  Are they deprecated, or lacking round tuits?
[06:48] <mdz> infinity: they should be there
[06:48] <mdz> infinity: well, mythgallery is a round tuit I tihnk
[06:48] <mdz> infinity: mythmusic has binaries but no source
[06:50] <infinity> Right, then.  I'll just leave them FTBFS for now.  Maybe you can poke an MOTU to do your dirty work for you. :)
[06:50] <mdz> infinity: all this interest in mythtv; want to be a co-mainatiner *nudge* *wink*
[06:51] <infinity> Is it non-free for reasons I'd have moral objections to, or just crazy patent issues or osmething similar?
[06:51] <infinity> I've been meaning to play with it at home, so I suppose if I actually find it useful, I could sign up.
[06:52] <jdub> does hppa not have a functioning installer?
[06:52] <jdub> in debian or ubuntu?
[06:53] <jdub> hrm, no there appears to be images on the debian site
[06:53] <jdub> weird
[06:54] <infinity> It works fine in Debian.
[06:54] <infinity> As an SCC in Ubuntu, I have no idea what its status is, but you should ask lamont if you're curious.
[06:54] <jdub> yeah
[06:54] <jdub> infinity: "port" :)
[06:55] <infinity> Tomato, Tomahto.
[06:55] <jdub> marketing nous, marketing mouse :)
[08:37] <pitti> Hi
[08:38] <pitti> infinity: any chance to get some security builds on *any* powerpc buildd?
[08:41] <sabdfl> daniels: good news, laptop hoary -> breezy update went fine, X Just Worked (tm)
[08:45] <tepsipakki> should usb card readers work out-of-the-box, ie. if I plug a card in it gets mounted?
[08:45] <daniels> sabdfl: excellent news
[08:45] <sabdfl> tepsipakki: yes, i believe so, file a bug and ping pitti if not
[08:45] <daniels> sabdfl: still having trouble with fglrx?
[08:45] <sabdfl> he will likely want to know the low-level usb and card details
[08:46] <sabdfl> daniels: yes
[08:46] <daniels> sabdfl: okay, I'll kick ATI
[08:46] <pitti> tepsipakki: right, they should; http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices
[08:46] <sabdfl> daniels: here's the situation
[08:46] <sabdfl> the new ATI package creator was smooth
[08:46] <pitti> tepsipakki: would be nice if you could do the steps there and file a bug (or just mail me the files)
[08:46] <sabdfl> except that i still had to compile the kernel source separately
[08:46] <tepsipakki> pitti: ok, so there's some daemon polling on them, because plugging the card does not create any usb-event.. ?
[08:47] <tepsipakki> pcmcia-reader seems to work just fine ;)
[08:47] <pitti> tepsipakki: yes, hal polls those devices to notice an insertion
[08:47] <tepsipakki> ok, will look into it
[08:47] <pitti> tepsipakki: you have a really up to date breezy?
[08:47] <daniels> sabdfl: interesting, that should Just Happen as part of the process
[08:47] <pitti> tepsipakki: I fixed some hotplug bugs recently
[08:48] <tepsipakki> updated yesterday
[08:48] <sabdfl> daniels: now, i have kernel module 8.16, and xorg-driver-fglrx 8.16
[08:48] <Lathiat> does the l-r-m stuff not work?
[08:48] <sabdfl> it starts fine, but I've noticed two problems
[08:48] <sabdfl> hmm... two problems, and a possible third
[08:48] <sabdfl> the first is that GL is not native,it's mesa
[08:49] <daniels> seb128: morning sabarino
[08:49] <sabdfl> i looked at dpkg -l libgl1-mesa
[08:49] <pitti> tepsipakki: that should be recent enough :-)
[08:49] <sabdfl> and noticed that the main libraries were diverted but the optimised ones were not
[08:49] <sabdfl> so i diverted them manually
[08:49] <daniels> sabdfl: hmm, they should be providing their own /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2
[08:49] <daniels> sabdfl: oh, right! optimised builds.  blah.
[08:49] <sabdfl> daniels: yes. so please could you make fglrx divert the optimised ones too?
[08:50] <sabdfl> and nudge ati with that bug?
[08:50] <sabdfl> however,
[08:50] <seb128> hey daniels pitti sabdfl
[08:50] <pitti> seb128!!!
[08:50] <pitti> welcome back
[08:50] <seb128> thanks ;)
[08:50] <sabdfl> sebmaster!
[08:50] <tepsipakki> pitti: lets hope its just some pseudo-user missing (yes, we have a perverse system for those)
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: you cheated, you uploaded some packages yesterday :)
[08:50] <sabdfl> daniels: even diverting them locally did not bring up GL however
[08:50] <daniels> sabdfl: sure
[08:50] <daniels> sabdfl: oh, interesting
[08:50] <sabdfl> i'm not sure why
[08:50] <pitti> tepsipakki: might be
[08:50] <daniels> sabdfl: actually, I think I have a fair idea
[08:51] <daniels> sabdfl: try dropping back to xserver-xorg 6.8.2-53
[08:51] <sabdfl> what's that?
[08:51] <daniels> sabdfl: i've pinged them about that problem too
[08:51] <sabdfl> daniels: i won't have time to do that, but if you could fix it in today's upload i'll test it tonight
[08:51] <sabdfl> so, second issue
[08:51] <sabdfl> DRI is inactive
[08:51] <sabdfl> disabled
[08:52] <sabdfl> in the Xorg.log.0 it talks about disabling it because it found DRI version 5.0.0 and was expecting 4.x
[08:52] <seb128> pitti: yeah, but all this shiny GNOME tarballs ... :p
[08:52] <sabdfl> which is interesting because it's their kernel driver, and their xorg driver, so i would think the version expectaction would be consistent
[08:52] <sabdfl> any idea?
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: I know that you can't resist the temptation
[08:53] <desrt> seb128; odd metacity crashes that go away when i dpkg-buildpackage from the sources for myself
[08:53] <sabdfl> desrt: it's the magic hand waving ;-)
[08:53] <desrt> seb128; basically, metacity crashes outright whenever a error dialog pops on the screen.  i see this with 'applet has quit unexpectedly dialogs'... tberman gets it when gaim tells him he got disconnected from the server
[08:54] <sabdfl> seb128: rhythmbox is crashing on breezy, is that a known issue?
[08:54] <Lathiat> desrt: yeh theres a bug about that
[08:54] <Treenaks> desrt: Gaim "You've been invited to <jabber channel>" dialogs make metacity crash too
[08:54] <Lathiat> desrt: ive been meaning ot get a more usefull backtrace
[08:54] <Lathiat> Treenaks: gajims do it too
[08:54] <Lathiat> as do variosu other dialogs
[08:54] <Lathiat> i rebuilt it with nostrip and its harder to make happen
[08:54] <desrt> Lathiat; i have a bug on gnome.org about it.  is there an ubuntu #?
[08:55] <daniels> sabdfl: right, the server has 5.0.0, but their client library is 4.0.x
[08:55] <daniels> sabdfl: there's no real difference though, so I've asked them for a recompile
[08:55] <desrt> ubuntu #14145
[08:55] <sabdfl> daniels: and the third problem is  this
[08:55] <sabdfl> the new driver/kernel mod comes up nicely on startup
[08:56] <sabdfl> but after X starts I'm unable to swtch to VT1-6
[08:56] <sabdfl> if I tr, the screen goes black
[08:56] <jdub> yo seb128!
[08:56] <sabdfl> then DPMS kicks in and it switches off
[08:56] <sabdfl> hey jdub
[08:56] <jdub> seb128: what do you think about reverting evo?
[08:56] <jdub> hey sabdfl 
[08:56] <seb128> sabdfl: yep, will be fixed within 1 hour with the new GTK
[08:56] <seb128> jdub: reverting?
[08:57] <daniels> sabdfl: hrm.  i think there's a bug open about that one upstream.
[08:57] <seb128> jdub: hey hey :)
[08:57] <jdub> seb128: going back to 2.2
[08:57] <daniels> sabdfl: i'll get together with them when they get into the office this morning.
[08:57] <seb128> desrt: weird
[08:57] <seb128> jdub: no way, why?
[08:57] <jdub> seb128: luis and i have been talking about doing it upstream, too
[08:57] <rob^> jdub, whats wrong with 2.3?
[08:57] <jdub> seb128: it's, ah, not wonderfully stable
[08:57] <fabbione> desrt: what happen if you build it in a clean chroot?
[08:57] <seb128> jdub: 2.2 neither
[08:57] <desrt> fabbione; hmmmm...?
[08:57] <desrt> fabbione; i -just- installed colony 3 tonight
[08:57] <jdub> seb128: ok, gotta go for a while, back later
[08:57] <Lathiat> has anyone noticed when replying to messages, sometimes you get a blank quote, sometimes you get somethign like a 'g' and soemtimes get the message? (evo)
[08:57] <seb128> jdub: k
[08:58] <fabbione> desrt: can you compare the build log from the one you do yourself and the one on the buildd?
[08:58] <seb128> Lathiat: maybe you select something? it quotes the selection
[08:58] <desrt> sure
[08:58] <fabbione> desrt: there might be a slighly difference, and spot the reason
[08:58] <rob^> Lathiat, no
[08:58] <desrt> personally, i'm suspicious that the ubuntu build cluster is cursed :)
[08:59] <desrt> will dpkg-buildpackage generate a log or do i redirect stdout/err?
[08:59] <Treenaks> desrt: Bring in the holy water & virgin blood!
[09:02] <pitti> Hi JaneW 
[09:02] <desrt> fabbione; k.. seriously... 1) where do i get the buildlog from the official package and 2) how do i make one for me?
[09:03] <fabbione> desrt: you do dpkg-buildpackage > log 2>&1
[09:03] <desrt> fabbione; you can do &>
[09:03] <fabbione> desrt: official logs are at: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
[09:03] <desrt> thanks :)
[09:03] <fabbione> desrt: whatever ;)
[09:05] <pitti> Moin mvo
[09:05] <mvo> hey pitti 
[09:05] <mvo> good morning all
[09:05] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:06] <desrt> this is a job for meld!
[09:06] <mvo> hey seb128, wb
[09:07] <mae> oooo I like the new usplash except on dual monitor the right screen is skewed :\ maybe thats just my CRT
[09:07] <mae> wasn't like that with text mode
[09:08] <hunger> mae: And it does not handle user input gracefully either,
[09:08] <mae> hunger, :) well nonetheless I think it is _very_ nice for the amount of time it was put together in
[09:08] <hunger> mae: I thought my box had hanged when nothig happened... I just had to switch to the proper VT to get to the input.
[09:08] <mae> and a much more elegant solution than the graphical boot of fedora where it launches a whole x-session
[09:09] <mae> it will be polished :d
[09:09] <desrt> fabbione; only superficial changes
[09:09] <hunger> mae: I am sure of that!
[09:09] <desrt> fabbione; like the names of my directories are different than the ones used on the build
[09:09] <desrt> fabbione; otherwise the same... right down to the warnings that gcc throws
[09:10] <fabbione> desrt: hmm weird
[09:10] <desrt> more like 'evil'
[09:11] <desrt> looks like i may want to set me up one of these chroot thingies
[09:12] <pitti> argh, toshset debconf foo on hoary->breezy
[09:12] <pitti> mjg59: here?
[09:12] <mdz> fabbione: the live cd builds are in progress
[09:13] <mdz> I probably won't stay awake until they finish, but the live builds are fairly foolproof
[09:13] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. i read that on #u-k
[09:13] <sabdfl> daniels: can we catch up quickly by phone?
[09:13] <mdz> when 20050831.1 appears on cdimage, they will be OK
[09:13] <fabbione> mdz: fine.. thanks
[09:14] <daniels> sabdfl: 'kay
[09:14] <mdz> fabbione: which can you test
[09:14] <mdz> ?
[09:14] <fabbione> mdz: i can test both as soon as they appear.. both install and live
[09:14] <mdz> fabbione: I mean which architectures?
[09:14] <mdz> I haven't started an install CD build yet
[09:14] <fabbione> only i386
[09:14] <fabbione> i don't have any others here...
[09:14] <mdz> ok
[09:15] <fabbione> and we don't build sparc .. so
[09:15] <sabdfl> daniels: 0210 or 8445?
[09:15] <mdz> we can't do parallel builds yet, so the install needs to wait until live is finished
[09:15] <fabbione> mdz: i will probably buy a ppc in not too long from now...
[09:15] <fabbione> yeps.. i know
[09:15] <daniels> sabdfl: 8445; 0210 doesn't get to me at all anymore
[09:16] <mvo> mdz: I can test i386 and amd64 
[09:17] <mdz> elmo: can we replace little with the same class of box that jackass is now?  :-P
[09:18] <pitti> daniels: file conflict between xrgb and xorg-common (/etc/X11/rgb.txt); known bug? it breaks the hoary>breezy upgrade
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: #14340
[09:19] <sivang> morning all
[09:20] <pitti> mdz: ok, thanks
[09:20] <pitti> Hi sivnag
[09:20] <pitti> sivang, even
[09:20] <sivang> pitti: =)
[09:22] <mae> what would cause both sound-juicer and rhythmbox to both crash on startup, could it be that the current gstreamer in breezy is borked?
[09:22] <seb128> sivang: hi, what have you changed on gnome-panel?
[09:23] <seb128> mae: GTK bug, will be fixed RSN (new package is building atm on my box)
[09:23] <mae> seb128, ahh fixed in gtk 2.8.3?
[09:23] <seb128> should be
[09:24] <mae> seb128, thats a relief, breezy was all working but i was really bummed i couldn't "juice" an album i just bought :0
[09:24] <seb128> we will be sure when the new version is here
[09:24] <sivang> seb128: I added launchpad integration to context menu of panel itself and applets that come in gnome-panel pkg
[09:24] <mae> :)
[09:24] <Treenaks> mae: there's always cdparanoia -Bvs ;)
[09:24] <sivang> seb128: how was your vacation?
[09:24] <mae> Treenaks, bleh, I am too used to using sound-juicer
[09:24] <seb128> sivang: have you pinged an usuability guy about that? (just curious)
[09:24] <daniels> pitti: already fixed
[09:24] <mae> i could brave using grip but i don't want to spend 30 mins configuring all the options how i want them.
[09:24] <rob^> is there something we need to do to enable usplash?
[09:25] <pitti> daniels: hm, then apparently not yet on today's CD
[09:25] <pitti> daniels: but that's fine, thanks
[09:25] <daniels> pitti: probably not; no worries
[09:25] <sivang> seb128: hrm, no, I'm sorry I probably had to ask jamesh before ...
[09:25] <daniels> pitti: you have a new upload hitting the really-old suite soon, too
[09:25] <pitti> ah, great
[09:25] <mae> just what is the "launchpad" what component is everyone referring i see this all over ubuntu.com
[09:25] <pitti> daniels: btw, our powerpc buildds are very unhappy, also with other uploads...
[09:26] <pitti> out of memory, or something like that
[09:26] <seb128> sivang: jamesh is not an usuability guy afaik, that's just you make the context menu complicated by putting new items here
[09:26] <seb128> sivang: and that was not a part of the spec 
[09:27] <Lathiat> mae: launchpad.net
[09:27] <daniels> pitti: ouch
[09:27] <sabdfl> mae: http://launchpad.net
[09:27] <mae> ic
[09:28] <sivang> seb128: Well, I discussed patching the context menu with you, and we can get it off easily...just drop my patches
[09:28] <mae> is this like, (bugzilla meets gettext meets web-revision-control)-ng
[09:29] <sivang> seb128: (I don't recall you were opposing this, and if you did, I'm sorry I've probably missed that)
[09:29] <mae> or close :)
[09:29] <seb128> sivang: yeah, and I said I'm not convinced that's the right thing to do ... but whatever, let's wait for bugs
[09:29] <Treenaks> mae: nice tagline ;)
[09:29] <mae> hehe
[09:30] <tepsipakki> pitti: I think I found the culprit.. hal is not in plugdev-group ;)
[09:30] <pitti> ouch
[09:30] <pitti> tepsipakki: how did you install that machine?
[09:30] <tepsipakki> netboot
[09:30] <mae> bah! no wonder bugzilla.ubuntu.com seems so stagnant *just found out about launchpad*
[09:30] <tepsipakki> pitti: thats our fault
[09:31] <pitti> tepsipakki: I mean, clean breezy install or any upgrade?
[09:31] <sivang> seb128: who can we discuss this futher? I mean, I think the panel should be one clickable to launchapd, but if context menu is not the right thing, let's ask an expert , who are the other usability guys?
[09:31] <pitti> tepsipakki: you don't use /etc/groups?
[09:31] <tepsipakki> pitti: clean, but I mean that the passwd/group -files are rdist'd
[09:31] <seb128> sivang: mpt?
[09:31] <pitti> humm
[09:31] <pitti> tepsipakki: so adduser doesn't do anything on your system?
[09:31] <pitti> tepsipakki: that will break a whole lot of other things
[09:32] <seb128> mae: "stagnant"? ;)
[09:32] <sivang> seb128: k, I'll talk to him
[09:32] <seb128> thanks
[09:32] <mvo> is NM supposed as our long-term solution for dialup too?
[09:32] <tepsipakki> pitti: well, basically yes, but I've tried to make sure every pseudo-user is there
[09:32] <mae> err.. well actually nevermind no one seems to be using launchpad for bug tracking on breezy
[09:33] <tepsipakki> pitti: those files are created right after base-install, so adduser notices that hal is already there ;)
[09:33] <seb128> mvo: query doesn't work?
[09:33] <mae> gosh bugzilla needs a facelift though..
[09:33] <seb128> mvo: probably yep
[09:33] <tepsipakki> pitti: but yeah, it sucks right now. uids<200 should be left to the system
[09:33] <pitti> tepsipakki: oh, I see; but it tries "adduser hal plugdev" separately
[09:33] <Mithrandir> doko: why?  ia32-libs-openoffice.org is useful for ooo1 as well, and that doesn't require lib32gcj6.
[09:33] <seb128> arg
[09:33] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[09:33] <pitti> tepsipakki: < 1000 actually
[09:34] <seb128> "* Unregistered users cannot currently send private messages due to spambot problems. please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup )"
[09:34] <mae> get registered :)
[09:34] <sivang> lol
[09:34] <mae> I bet asuffield did that, hes a jerkoff
[09:34] <ivoks> and, what would registration accomplish?
[09:34] <tepsipakki> pitti: well, for real-users of course, but pseudo-users live under 1000
[09:34] <ivoks> we would have registred spamers :)
[09:35] <mae> hehe
[09:35] <mae> actually i'm glad they did that, yesterday i was idling about 10 hours came back with about 50 spambots msging me with porn links
[09:35] <mdz> fabbione: daily-live build finished
[09:35] <fabbione> mdz: perfect.. rsyncing now
[09:35] <desrt> seb128; it's perplexing that 2 official ubuntu releases in a row have the same problem, yet a dpkg-buildpacakge locally fixes it
[09:36] <Treenaks> desrt: the dailies aren't "official releases"
[09:36] <mdz> fabbione: install CDs are building now, but will take some time (jigdo etc.)
[09:36] <Treenaks> at least, not in the "it's supported" sense
[09:36] <fabbione> mdz: sure.. no problem
[09:36] <seb128> desrt: what pb?
[09:37] <desrt> seb128; the metacity thing
[09:37] <seb128> desrt: weird yep
[09:37] <desrt> i'm definitely too tired to think about it anymore.  nite :)
[09:37] <seb128> desrt: have you sent a backtrace upstream ?
[09:37] <seb128> 'night desrt
[09:37] <desrt> seb128; ya
[09:38] <desrt> seb128; but they think it's ubuntu's fault :)
[09:38] <seb128> desrt: why ?
[09:38] <crispin> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314442
[09:38] <seb128> desrt: bug number ?
[09:38] <desrt> seb128; because it only happens to breezy users
[09:38] <desrt> ya.  what he said :)
[09:39] <seb128> and nobody can get a debug backtrace?
[09:39] <seb128> that would be useful :)
[09:39] <desrt> nobody can get a non-official build to crash
[09:39] <desrt> even vanilla
[09:39] <desrt> nevermind with debug symbols
[09:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: is it a known issue that evince eats loads and loads and loads and loads of CPU time?
[09:40] <mvo> and crashes all the time?
[09:40] <desrt> anyway.  good luck :)
[09:40] <pitti> hm, is there any reason to keep mozilla-firefox in universe?
[09:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: not by me, or that's somewhere with the 300 bug mails I got since saturday
[09:41] <seb128> mvo: what crashes?
[09:41] <mvo> evince 
[09:41] <seb128> too many bugs for me; GNOME guys please go upstream
[09:41] <mvo> seb128: it crashs on quite a few of the documents I use
[09:41] <seb128> (note for desrt by example)
[09:42] <desrt> seb128; again -- bug doesn't occur upstream
[09:42] <seb128> thanks ;)
[09:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: heh, sorry, forgot you're backlogged. :-)
[09:42] <mvo> seb128: dholach will visit me today, I'll kick him to do bug triage :)
[09:42] <desrt> seb128; lending to my belief that the ubuntu buildservers are cursed :)
[09:42] <mvo> (but I'm afraid he has to prepare his thesis presentation)
[09:42] <desrt> seb128; you guys basically don't vendor patch evince at all (except launchpad stuff), yet i get the bug with the ubuntu package but not evince cvs
[09:43] <crispin> do the build servers use different compiler flags (and or compiler) from what locally built packages use ?
[09:43] <mdz> desrt: building cvs on ubuntu?
[09:43] <desrt> crispin; i just diff'd my build log of metacity against that of the buildserver... nothing except trivial changes
[09:43] <seb128> desrt: maybe fixed between current and CVS
[09:44] <desrt> seb128; the only thing that's changed is a darwin compatibility fix
[09:44] <seb128> weird
[09:44] <seb128> does it crashes on poppler ?
[09:44] <tepsipakki> pitti: yeah, now it works.. adding hal to plugdev and fiddling around a bit helped
[09:44] <desrt> no.  it looks like it has something to do with the egg recent document stuff
[09:45] <desrt> (it throws some console warnings just before the crash)
[09:45] <desrt> i'll look again tomorrow.  cheers.
[09:47] <pitti> sabdfl: your hal still doesn't start properly after system boot? can you please tell me the dbus version you upgraded to?
[09:48] <sabdfl> pitti: 0.36.2-0ubuntu1
[09:50] <sivang> infinity: is there a way to verify that that my debmirrored archive is current and consistent? rerun the creatino command?
[09:51] <pitti> sabdfl: ok, thanks
[09:51] <sabdfl> pitti: a bug in postgres breezy
[09:51] <sabdfl> it didnt install plpython, though that was installed on hoary
[09:51] <sabdfl> also, it seems to have lost tsearch
[09:52] <daniels> pitti: note that 0.36.2-0ubuntu1 moved the init script back to S12
[09:53] <pitti> daniels: I know, and that might break something
[09:53] <pitti> sabdfl: ok, I will add a transition package for it
[09:56] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[09:56] <mdz> yes?
[09:58] <doko> Mithrandir: could you update OOo1 to 1.1.4 for amd64? currently uninstallable.
[09:58] <Mithrandir> doko: sure.
[09:59] <doko> nice
[10:01] <daniels> pitti: i was pretty careful to remove all the old symlinks
[10:01] <daniels> pitti: (the transition from dbus-1 -> dbus left around dbus-1 symlinks also)
[10:02] <mdz> fabbione: yes?
[10:03] <mae> Is confirming bugs useful or is it better for me to look for new ones, or provide detailed bug reports for other confirmed bugs?
[10:05] <mae> is gtk 2.8.3 upped yet?
[10:07] <sivang> Kamion: I saw you added chrp boot option to debian-cd, do we have images ready already for testing?
[10:10] <infinity> pitti : ping.
[10:18] <pitti> hi infinity 
[10:19] <pitti> infinity: any chance to get the powerpc buildds running again?
[10:19] <seb128> mae: yep, why?
[10:19] <infinity> They are running.
[10:19] <mae> seb128, cuz i want to juice :)
[10:19] <mae> and i don't mean steroids
[10:20] <zyga> hello
[10:20] <pitti> infinity: but failing to build a couple of packages (out of memory?)
[10:20] <Treenaks> mae: eww!
[10:20] <seb128> infinity: thanks for all the glitz rebuilds ... not really needed because a new GNOME pile is planned before next week, but it's done now which is cool :)
[10:20] <infinity> seb128 : Well, a mess of stuff other than GNOME was broken too, and it was nice to get it all cleared up.
[10:22] <seb128> infinity: hum, there was any breakage out of the dep not required?
[10:22] <fabbione> daniels: xfs #14139 is an upstream bug.. it doesn't define -DFONTCACHE
[10:22] <fabbione> daniels: i am fixing it locally and let you know
[10:22] <seb128> just for my information :)
[10:23] <tepsipakki> pitti: do you know if CF-cards formatted in Canon digicameras should work? I'm not able to mount them, tried on 2.4.31 (sarge) and breezy
[10:23] <pitti> sabdfl: darn, the dbus version on the current CD is too old, so I upgraded hoary->0.35->0.36.2, which works; can you please send me the output of "ls -lR /etc/init.d /etc/rc2.d"?
[10:24] <infinity> seb128 : -EPARSE
[10:26] <seb128> infinity: there was any build breakage or something due to glitz, or that's just to get ride of the unneeded Depends on libgtliz1?
[10:26] <pitti> tepsipakki: no idea
[10:26] <pitti> tepsipakki: what does pmount -d device say?
[10:26] <infinity> seb128 : There were lots of mentions of glitz in .la files, causing other stuff to FTBFS.
[10:27] <infinity> seb128 : Took some effort to iron that out an all arches (some were worse off than others)
[10:27] <infinity> seb128 : Makes a good argument for versioned build-deps the next time you do that. :)
[10:27] <daniels> fabbione: okay, thanks
[10:28] <seb128> infinity: I've versionned most of main libs when doing it
[10:28] <seb128> infinity: will try to do better next time :)
[10:28] <jdub> lamont: ping
[10:28] <seb128> jdub: wb
[10:28] <jdub> yo seb128 
[10:28] <tepsipakki> pitti: hmm, can't test now, but I remember seeing on dmesg that no valid fat/vfat-partition was found
[10:29] <pitti> tepsipakki: ok, that's a more fundamental problem then
[10:29] <tepsipakki> pitti: I'll get another card to test later, the owner says that fc2/3/4 mounts it ok
[10:30] <seb128> jdub: so, what's up with evo?
[10:30] <seb128> jdub: evo is crap but that's not new ....
[10:30] <jdub> seb128: 2.3 seems quite a bit worse than 2.2
[10:30] <seb128> jdub: my bugzilla has no evidence of that
[10:31] <seb128> jdub: and dunno if you read the changelog for 2.3.8/1.3.8 the list of bugs fixed is impressive
[10:32] <tepsipakki> garr, when will gnome-screensaver be added to malone...
[10:33] <seb128> is there any packaging bug on it?
[10:33] <tepsipakki> I'm not sure
[10:34] <tepsipakki> it always locks the screen
[10:34] <Lathiat> i gave up on it, i was sick of it takign 10-30 seconds to show up the unlock dialog
[10:35] <tepsipakki> If the logout-thing works, it's a saviour
[10:35] <Lathiat> yeh its called ctrl+alt+backspace :)
[10:35] <seb128> tepsipakki: upstream bug
[10:36] <tepsipakki> ok, I'll bug them
[10:36] <Treenaks> pitti_: would it be possible/hard to make the "This device seems to be encrypted" dialog work the same as the gksudo one?
[10:36] <Treenaks> pitti_: I sometimes lose it now
[10:36] <tepsipakki> will there be a mass-migration from bugzilla to malone some time?
[10:36] <jdub> tepsipakki: yes
[10:37] <seb128> jdub: ping? :)
[10:37] <pitti> Treenaks: hm, can you please file a bug? I'm busy right now
[10:37] <tepsipakki> jdub: great
[10:37] <tepsipakki> jdub: i mean really ;)
[10:37] <jdub> seb128: yeah?
[10:38] <seb128> jdub: some point on this evolution discussion, some issues to point or something?
[10:38] <jdub> seb128: see gnome bugzilla
[10:39] <jdub> seb128: i'm not sure too many people file bugs when it seem so unstable
[10:39] <seb128> jdub: I do browse it quite often ...
[10:39] <seb128> jdub: it was the same for 2.2
[10:39] <zyga> pitti: do you have a moment?
[10:40] <pitti> zyga: well, just ask
[10:41] <Treenaks> pitti: ok
[10:41] <zyga> pitti: I'm trying to fix an issue with polish .po files of various packages, they were labeled as latin2 while in reality they were utf8, in effect many messages are corrupted
[10:41] <zyga> pitti: I can fix them but I wanted to ask you
[10:41] <seb128> jdub: anyway, reverting is not really an option. That would probably mean downgrading e-d-s too, which would break oo.o2, gnome-panel, etc
[10:41] <pitti> zyga: we need to fix them right in the source packages
[10:41] <zyga> pitti: do I have to get the source of every single package or is there any magic way I could get all the pl.po files?
[10:42] <jdub> seb128: we have to be prepared to do so, however
[10:42] <jdub> seb128: it may hurt, but we do need to be capable of doing it :)
[10:42] <zyga> and second issue, will fixing them in the source packages automatically fix them in rosetta?
[10:42] <pitti> zyga: you can get the pl.po files from language-pack-[gnome-] -pl[-base] 
[10:42] <seb128> jdub: are you kinding me?
[10:42] <jdub> .
[10:42] <jdub> seb128: in general
[10:42] <jdub> we need to be able to revert if necessary
[10:43] <seb128> we can't revert a central piece like this one week before the preview
[10:43] <pitti> zyga: you can change them, but in the end we do need to upload the actual source packages, not the langpacks
[10:43] <zyga> okay
[10:43] <seb128> most of the e-d-s libs have changed their API/soname
[10:43] <jdub> seb128: i'm bringing it up for thought
[10:43] <pitti> zyga: Rosetta will take the changes automatically, the langpacks will get the changes on next update
[10:43] <jdub> seb128: if it makes sense, we'd probably have to do it post-preview
[10:43] <seb128> jdub: yeah, "no way"
[10:43] <zyga> okay then, could I send you all modified po files?
[10:44] <seb128> jdub: it doesn't, there is no real issue on it, no reason to do that ...
[10:44] <pef> hello
[10:44] <jdub> seb128: we can't just reject these things out of hand
[10:44] <pitti> zyga: well, you can, but it will take me a while to actually process them
[10:44] <seb128> jdub: what "things"?
[10:44] <pitti> zyga: if you have some time, I'd rather take debdiffs of source packages :-)
[10:44] <jdub> seb128: if there was a choice between a painful reversion and a seriously broken piece of software, we'd have to choose reversion
[10:44] <seb128> jdub: we want with the new yelp without GNOME for previous one, we can ship the new evo as well for this one
[10:44] <Treenaks> pitti: (#14400, severity: enhancement)
[10:44] <pitti> zyga: but mailing me the files is fine
[10:44] <pitti> Treenaks: thanks
[10:45] <jdub> seb128: the new yelp wasn't broken
[10:45] <zyga> pitti: I'll try to my best, I'll check the langpacks now
[10:45] <jdub> seb128: it had a11y regressions
[10:45] <seb128> jdub: my point is that my box or bugzilla.ubuntu has no mention of the "seriously broken piece of software"
[10:45] <jdub> seb128: that's okay, but we need to be open to reversion if necessary
[10:45] <seb128> jdub: and evo dude have tackle like 100 bugs for 2.11.92
[10:46] <jdub> i am not suggesting we need to do it, i'm bringing it up for discussion
[10:46] <jdub> but in general (not about evolution), we do need to be open to reversion
[10:46] <seb128> yeah, but I don't get why we discuss it rather discussion reverting gnome-applets
[10:46] <seb128> right
[10:46] <jdub> because there is a strong feeling at the moment that evolution is not ready to ship
[10:46] <jdub> that is why i've brought it up
[10:47] <seb128> hum
[10:47] <seb128> from who and where?
[10:47] <seb128> I just would like to get a pointer to some discussion about that
[10:47] <jdub> bugsquad, luis, quite a lot of non-specific complaints
[10:47] <seb128> bah
[10:47] <jdub> luis is going to bring it up with r-t or d-d-l
[10:47] <seb128> that was the same for 2.2
[10:47] <jdub> not really
[10:48] <seb128> 2.2 was broken over what 2.3 is now
[10:48] <jdub> there was no strong suggestion that we not ship 2.2 last release
[10:48] <seb128> every single 2.1 tarball had RC issues 
[10:48] <jdub> ok
[10:48] <seb128> no; but there could have been
[10:48] <jdub> dude
[10:48] <jdub> i'm preparing you for what's coming
[10:48] <jdub> evo 2.4 may not ship with gnome 2.12
[10:48] <seb128> k, let's wait for this
[10:48] <jdub> we need to decide what we're going to do
[10:49] <seb128> you should rather prepare mdz
[10:49] <seb128> and I'm not taking the responsability to break the whole desktop like this
[10:49] <jdub> seb, i'm not saying we have to
[10:49] <jdub> i'm bringing it up for discussion
[10:49] <seb128> k
[10:49] <seb128> I'm strongly against it
[10:49] <seb128> let's discuss with luis when he's around
[10:50] <seb128> to know why he wants to bring that up
[10:50] <seb128> maybe with a list of show stoppers I'll be convinced :)
[10:52] <seb128> but I'm pretty convinced that 2.2 has the same amonth of issues
[10:52] <jdub> seb128: also, watch out, you are being hunted after being away on vacation
[10:52] <Keybuk> mmm, "seb128 season"
[10:53] <Keybuk> be dewy quiet, I'm hunting gtk bugz
[10:53] <seb128> jdub: I was away 4 days and ready mails on days 3 and 4 ... that's quite ok :)
[10:53] <jdub> there's sebs in them thar hills!
[10:53] <sivang> Keybuk: lol
[10:54] <seb128> jdub: anyway thanks for pointing the discussion, I'll ping luis when he's around
[10:54] <jdub> ok
[10:55] <seb128> jdub: I'm just a bit surprised because the evo guys tracked down a whole pile of bugs for some weeks, cleaned some hundred bugs to bugzilla and fixed like one hundred for 2.11.92
[10:56] <seb128> jdub: anyway we have time to figure
[10:56] <pitti> brb
[10:58] <mjg59> pitti: Hello
[10:58] <pitti> Hi mjg59 
[10:58] <fab_live> seb128: i am on livecd now.. the one from this morning.
[10:59] <pitti> mjg59: on hoary->breezy upgrade (probably also at clean install) I get a debconf note for toshset; known bug?
[10:59] <fab_live> i got "Hal cannot initialize" message at the loging
[10:59] <fab_live> login even
[10:59] <pitti> fab_live: sudo /etc/init.d/dbus cures it?
[10:59] <mjg59> pitti: Fixed
[10:59] <pitti> fab_live: if so, then I saw this somewhere
[11:00] <pitti> mjg59: ok, thansk
[11:00] <fab_live> pitti: dunno.. let me check..
[11:00] <pitti> fab_live: I'll try the current live - i386?
[11:00] <pitti> fab_live: check with "lshal" that it worked
[11:00] <Keybuk> jbailey: ping (when you're up)
[11:00] <fab_live> lshal prints tons of stuf--let me try logout/login again
[11:01] <tepsipakki> lathiat: I think your gnome-screensaver-dialog vomits a lot of pango-warnings (invalid utf-8 string passed to pango_layout_set_text)?
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: yes.. restarting dbus helps
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: ok, so hal wasn't running before
[11:03] <pitti> fabbione: i386?
[11:03] <fabbione> pitti: yes. i386
[11:03] <pitti> fabbione: anyway, I try today's live; I already tried a hoary->breezy upgrade to reproduce it, but failed (i. e. it worked)
[11:04] <fabbione> i didn't check hoary -> breezy.. only the live
[11:04] <fabbione>  682028 -rw-r--r--   1 root root  699566080 Aug 31 09:16 breezy-live-i386.iso
[11:04] <pitti> mjg59: btw, the point where I dropped out of usplash is "Calculating module dependencies" - it takes > 10 seconds
[11:04] <pitti> mjg59: so this is not an usplash bug, rather we should check what takes so long about module dep calc...
[11:04] <fabbione> 87a432ad8aefb4657cac27f58261ff1d  breezy-live-i386.iso
[11:05] <mjg59> pitti: Well, arguably it's a bootsplash bug
[11:05] <mjg59> Uh, usplash
[11:06] <pitti> mjg59: I think falling back to text mode by the watchdog is not entirely wrong
[11:06] <pitti> mjg59: maybe the timeout should just be increased then
[11:06] <mjg59> pitti: When we're expecting it to happen, it's reasonable
[11:06] <pitti> mjg59: but in any case speeding up (or maybe  caching) module dependency calculation would boost boot speed nicely
[11:07] <mjg59> Yes, but that's not necessarily brezyable
[11:07] <pitti> right
[11:08] <mvo> ping doko 
[11:10] <doko> mvo: pong
[11:11] <mvo> doko: I think I fixed the apt-listchanges problem, but I would like to know if the fix works for you as well
[11:12] <infinity> mvo : Am I the only person who thinks it's competely broken that update-manager can't handle dist-upgrade cases (specifically, addition of packages, not necessarily removal, since a kernel security update that bumps ABI will leave a majority of confused users vulnerable)
[11:13] <pitti> mvo: btw, removal would be nice as well - otherwise a hoary->breezy upgrade will still have xpdf & co
[11:13] <mvo> infinity: no, there is a bug open about it. we have a much improved u-m in cvs, but it didn't made it for breezy in time. 
[11:13] <mvo> pitti: u-m does not currently support dist-upgrades. but infinity is right, a normal upgrade is not sufficient for the kernel
[11:14] <infinity> mvo : Shame.  I don't suppose anyone could get a hack in just for the "add new packages" case, since for kernels this could be Really Bad?
[11:14] <zyga> mvo: hi
[11:14] <pitti> infinity: well, it is not that bad since most users will have the meta packages
[11:14] <mvo> infinity: I think someone should do that, yes (/me looks at it now)
[11:14] <infinity> pitti : Removal shouldn't be as big a deal, since I would hope people won't attempt hoary->breezy upgrades via update-manager.
[11:14] <infinity> pitti : The metapackage won't upgrade, that's the problem.
[11:14] <pitti> infinity: why not?
[11:15] <infinity> pitti : Requires new packages installed, update-manager tells you to "do something really complex" (run synaptic or apt-get)
[11:15] <mvo> infinity: could you test http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/apt-listchanges_2.59-0.2ubuntu4_all.deb please? and see it it fails for you?
[11:15] <Mirv> was there some specific contact for large scale Ubuntu CD shipments? I was contacted by one person who is interested in spreading Ubuntu to some Finnish schools (with additional guides etc.), and asked if there's some contact for this kind of CD shipments...
[11:16] <zyga> pitti: help the clueless, I built fixed packages with dpkg-buildpackage, now I should rename them (like --fixed suffix) apt-get source them again, dpkg-buildpackage them again AND finally run debdiff?
[11:16] <pitti> zyga: I /msg you
[11:17] <fabbione> hi Saba_Z 
[11:18] <Saba_Z> Hi
[11:19] <fabbione> Saba_Z: did you get my mail at the end?
[11:19] <fabbione> with the deb package?
[11:19] <Saba_Z> yes
[11:19] <fabbione> super
[11:19] <Saba_Z> with seb?
[11:19] <Saba_Z> when did you send it?
[11:19] <fabbione> eh i meant the sources for the deb
[11:20] <fabbione> yesterday ...
[11:20] <Saba_Z> Yes, I have recieved
[11:20] <fabbione> perfect...
[11:20] <infinity> mvo : Still segfaults for me, but that was expected, since my segv seems to be deep in python-gtk, not anything apt-listchanges is doing wrong.
[11:20] <fabbione> was it difficult to understand?
[11:21] <Saba_Z> that was ok, I had changed the package and send it
[11:21] <fabbione> Saba_Z: i just got the mail right now..
[11:21] <Saba_Z> just 5 minutes ago!
[11:21] <fabbione> give me 2 minutes to look at it
[11:21] <Saba_Z> ok
[11:22] <mvo> infinity: I was able to reproduce a segfault on my i386 here and the package fixed that one for me
[11:23] <infinity> mvo : Hrm.  Still breaks for me. :/
[11:23] <pitti> sabdfl: uh, the postgresql plpython transition is pretty tricky - hoary didn't have a separate package for the varios PG/PL{perl,python,tcl} languages; so I either force the installation of all extra packages during the transition, or leave it like it is now
[11:23] <infinity> mvo : So, we must have had two different segvs.
[11:23] <mvo> infinity: oh well :/
[11:23] <fabbione>                 grep -v "/etc/sbs/named.conf.sbs" "$BINDCONF" > "$tempfile"  || true
[11:23] <fabbione> Saba_Z: this is very dangerous to do
[11:24] <fabbione> specially followed by cp "$tempfile" "$BINDCONF"
[11:24] <infinity> mvo : I'm hoping it magically clears up as we get new GTK and new bindings uploaded, but if it's still happening after preview, I'll have to find someone with a giant brain to help me hunt it down beyond "oh look, the stack is smashed, yay"
[11:24] <fabbione> if the previous operation fails, you will get to copy an empty file over a valid config
[11:24] <mjr> 37
[11:25] <infinity> mvo : On the other hand, my problem would sort of go away if calling apt-listchanges from a console with frontend=pager didn't import gtk in the first place.
[11:25] <Saba_Z> =-O oh, yes. there was a problem on the last grep
[11:25] <rob^> is anyone else having problems with usplash not appearing on startup?
[11:25] <Saba_Z> I will correct it, and send you 
[11:25] <fabbione> Saba_Z: otherwise it looks fine.. i suggest you to grab another package that is under the GPL licence and see how the copyrigth file is structured
[11:25] <fabbione> because there is a shorter way than adding the overall GPL boilerplate ;)
[11:25] <fabbione> and you need to add your name there too
[11:26] <mvo> infinity: it has to do with the structure of apt-listchanges, I'm not sure it can be changed easily
[11:26] <fabbione> copyright != licence, but for our target, they stay in the same file
[11:26] <infinity> mvo : Ahh, suck.  Then I guess I need to work on finding the real bug. :)
[11:26] <rob^> guess not
[11:26] <Saba_Z> ok
[11:27] <Saba_Z> I will send it within 10 minutes :)
[11:27] <tseng> infinity: that gtk-sharp segv on the x86 buildd just fixed itself
[11:27] <fabbione> Saba_Z: oh hmm
[11:27] <fabbione> one second..
[11:27] <tseng> infinity: so, cheers.
[11:27] <Saba_Z> ok
[11:27] <kent> Are bugreports on breezy going to bugzilla.ubuntu.com, or is there some other prefered place? (Rhythmbox segfaults for me, and it seems to not be one of the reported bugs.. but Im unsure)
[11:27] <rob^> kent, it is reported
[11:27] <fabbione> if [ -n "$BINDCONF" ] ; then
[11:27] <fabbione>         if ! grep --quiet "/etc/sbs/named.conf.sbs" $BINDCONF; then
[11:27] <fabbione> this is correct...
[11:27] <mvo> infinity: I look at it again when I'm finished with update-manager
[11:28] <fabbione> you forgot to do the same for the last config file
[11:28] <fabbione> and there is another case we need to take into account...
[11:28] <fabbione> Saba_Z: let's imagine the user isntall sbs..
[11:28] <fabbione> but after he removes the sbs portion of config files from (for example) binds
[11:28] <fabbione> bind9
[11:29] <fabbione> at the first sbs upgrade, he will get them back
[11:29] <fabbione> so you need to ensure to add your sections only at install
[11:29] <fabbione> but not on upgrades.
[11:29] <Saba_Z> :-?
[11:30] <fabbione> ehhe ok.. example
[11:30] <Saba_Z> one second ...
[11:30] <fabbione> i install sbs
[11:30] <fabbione> sure..
[11:30] <kent> rob^, Thanks. I saw it now on bugzilla.  :)
[11:30] <rob^> np
[11:34] <Saba_Z> Can you please say the example :D 
[11:34] <Saba_Z> fabbione: Can you please say the example :D
[11:34] <fabbione> Saba_Z: yes.. you asked for a sec and i was waiting for you :)
[11:34] <fabbione> let's say:
[11:34] <fabbione> i install sbs
[11:34] <fabbione> the packages add its stuff to the different bind.conf.local or whatever...
[11:35] <fabbione> I, completely bastard admin, decide to remove the sbs entry from the bind config file because i want to manage it myself
[11:36] <fabbione> sometimes in the future you upload a new version of sbs
[11:36] <fabbione> and I decide to upgrade
[11:36] <fabbione> your postinst script will readd the sbs entry in bind.conf.local
[11:36] <fabbione> overriding my decision
[11:36] <fabbione> this is bad
[11:36] <fabbione> it shouldn't happen
[11:37] <fabbione> so we need to do in such a way that the bind.conf.local will be preserved properly across upgrades
[11:37] <Saba_Z> :-? so, is there any argument passed when upgrading ?
[11:37] <fabbione> (bind.conf.local like all the other config files)
[11:37] <fabbione> Saba_Z: yeps... 
[11:39] <fabbione> Saba_Z: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
[11:39] <Saba_Z> there is another problem, specially for webmin.catnames
[11:40] <Saba_Z> the file "webmin.catnames" can be empty
[11:40] <fabbione> what problem does that introduce?
[11:40] <Saba_Z> so on postrm, grep -v "wizard" /etc/webmin/webmin.catnames  returns false
[11:41] <fabbione> Saba_Z: check if the file is empty...
[11:41] <fabbione>        -s file
[11:41] <fabbione>               True if file exists and has a size greater than zero.
[11:41] <fabbione> you can use that instead of -e
[11:42] <Saba_Z> ok
[11:42] <fabbione> so if the file is empty you don't care to grep in it
[11:43] <Saba_Z> the file /etc/webmin/webmin.catnames is not empty, It has the line "wizards=Wizards" before removing the webmin-sb
[11:43] <Saba_Z> s/webmin-sb/webmin-sbs/;
[11:43] <fabbione> given that the user didn't change it manually...
[11:44] <fabbione> since it's conf file you cannot assume it has something in it
[11:45] <Saba_Z> If there was just the "wizards=Wizards" line, I should make it empty.
[11:45] <fabbione> Saba_Z: there is no need to special case it. if there is only that line, the grep will do
[11:45] <Saba_Z> the grep then returns false! that was the reason of adding || true to the lines
[11:46] <fabbione> it returns false on a match?
[11:46] <Keybuk> mvo, seb128: I've seen a bug about the non-shape-ness of the update-notifier notify bubble haven't I?
[11:46] <Saba_Z> yes :D and with synaptic, it fails on completely removing
[11:46] <daniels> /part/
[11:46] <daniels> hm
[11:47] <fabbione> Saba_Z: hmmmm weird.. 
[11:47] <fabbione> i would probably just throw away the return code...
[11:48] <mvo> Keybuk: do you run the latest notification-damoen (ubuntu9)? that should have fixed it
[11:48] <mvo> Saba_Z: what fails to complettly removal?
[11:49] <fabbione> mvo: no panic :)
[11:49] <fabbione> it's a postinst returning something wrong
[11:49] <mvo> fabbione: ah, thanks
[11:49] <fabbione> Saba_Z: well i think i know the problem.. 
[11:49] <Keybuk> mvo: yeah, is ubuntu9
[11:49] <fabbione> try adding exit 0 at the end of postinst and postrm
[11:50] <Keybuk> though I may not have seen one with that
[11:50] <fabbione> Saba_Z: i think i overlooked at them :)
[11:50] <mvo> Keybuk: and it the notification-daemon was restarted since the upgrade to ubuntu9?
[11:50] <Keybuk> maybe not
[11:50] <Saba_Z> ok :)
[11:50] <Keybuk> am doing an upgrade/reboot in a moment anyway, so will look then
[11:50] <mvo> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[11:50] <fabbione> Saba_Z: if there is nothing else urgent i would love to go and eat something..
[11:50] <fabbione> Saba_Z: and i will be back in 30/40 minutes
[11:50] <Diziet> Oh, hello Keybuk.  Did you get a chance to look at that email of mine about conffiles ?
[11:51] <Keybuk> Diziet: not yet :-/  they were quite detailed <g>
[11:51] <Saba_Z> ok, I will send the new package ;)
[11:51] <fabbione> Saba_Z: perfect!
[11:51] <Diziet> Do you mind if I just go ahead and do it ?
[11:51] <Keybuk> not at all, was kinda hoping you would :)
[11:52] <Diziet> Right, OK then :-).
[11:53] <Keybuk> you're already up to speed on the diagnostics
[11:58] <Kamion> sivang: as I said yesterday, this morning's CD builds should have the CHRP stuff I added; they seem to have completed successfully at around 09:23 London time
[12:01] <jdthood> mdz: In lsb-base, "Use type instead of which".  I am curious about why that change was necessary.
[12:01] <Keybuk> jdthood: which isn't a builtin
[12:02] <Kamion> people were having problems with separate /usr
[12:02] <Keybuk> and wasn't in $PATH at the time
[12:02] <Kamion> (IIRC)
[12:02] <jdthood> which is now in /bin/
[12:02] <jdthood> ... in Debian
[12:02] <pitti> Hi jdthood 
[12:02] <Keybuk> something like that, I read that bug almost two cups of coffee ago
[12:02] <jdthood> Anyway you have answered my question; thanks.
[12:04] <jdthood> $ dpkg -L debianutils|grep which
[12:04] <jdthood> /bin/which
[12:04] <jdthood> /usr/share/man/man1/which.1.gz
[12:04] <jdthood> /usr/share/man/fr/man1/which.1.gz
[12:04] <jdthood> /usr/bin/which
[12:04] <jdthood> The which program is in /bin/ in Ubuntu too.
[12:09] <jdthood> There was a discussion about type and which in debian-policy.  It was argued that which is better than type because the latter is implemented differently in different shells.
[12:10] <jdthood> What is "usplash_write"?
[12:10] <opi> Hi
[12:10] <jdthood> /lib/lsb/init-functions is testing for the availability of a "usplash_write" command.
[12:11] <sladen> jdthood: it's a safe pipe writer that doesn't complain if the pipe doesn't exist
[12:12] <jdthood> sladen: I presume it's an executable file, not a shell function?
[12:13] <pitti_live> fabbione: yep, I can reproduce the hal bug
[12:14] <jdthood> The potential advantage "type" has over "which" is that it finds shell functions.
[12:15] <jdthood> The disadvantage is the non POSIXness of "type" and its varying implementation.  Worrisome that it's used in a shell function library such as /lib/lsb/init-functions.
[12:17] <Mithrandir> is there any reason not to grab my "findcommand"?  It cuts the mustard for me.
[12:17] <Mithrandir> (http://err.no/dotfiles/environment has the definition)
[12:19] <jdthood> Mithrandir: Just that it's nice not to have to define a function before doing the equivalent of "which".
[12:20] <jdthood> Mithrandir: IIRC, findcommand does what "which" does, right?
[12:20] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > findcommand emacs
[12:20] <Mithrandir> /usr/bin/emacs
[12:20] <pitti_live> fabbione: hmm, it could help if dbus would actually be started at boot :-) it just doesn't install an rc2.d symlink...
[12:20] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > findcommand gobblygook
[12:20] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > echo $?
[12:20] <Mithrandir> 1
[12:20] <Mithrandir> it can also do stuff like:
[12:20] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > findcommand gobblygook1 gobblygook2 ls
[12:20] <Mithrandir> /bin/ls
[12:20] <ajmitch> elmo: sync f-spot from sid, please :)
[12:21] <jdthood> Mithrandir: Well, "which" does that too.  Except for the last one.  Nice feature.
[12:21] <Mithrandir> jdthood: I use it for stuff like "set XTERM to the first one of those terminal emulators"
[12:21] <fabbione> pitti_live: ehehehe
[12:21] <pitti_live> fabbione: good for daniels that he isn't online ATM :-)
[12:22] <fabbione> :)
[12:22] <jdthood> I am just raising the question here of why lsb-base has migrated from "which" to "type" even though the latter is less portable.
[12:23] <jdthood> But it's a minor issue, especially in Ubuntu context.
[12:23] <Kamion> I thought type was POSIX, but on inspection I see I was wrong
[12:23] <Kamion> perhaps init-functions should do as Mithrandir suggests; that's what I've done in similar contexts
[12:23] <Kamion> "which" broke for people. We got actual failure reports.
[12:24] <Kamion> I don't know the exact reasons because I didn't investigate in detail
[12:24] <jdthood> Kamion: Probably which was in /usr/bin/ in Hoary
[12:24] <Kamion> but it seems entirely reasonable to want to use builtins where possible
[12:24] <Kamion> jdthood: I don't think anyone involved was testing on hoary
[12:24] <Kamion> it seems highly unlikely, considering the context was usplash
[12:24] <infinity> Partial upgrades, if nothing has versioned deps on debianutils.
[12:25] <Kamion> but, could be I suppose
[12:25] <infinity> debianutils definitely installed which in /usr/bin only on hoary.
[12:25] <thesaltydog> jdthood, which is in /usr/bin in hoary..
[12:25] <infinity> So that's the most likely explanation.
[12:26] <jdthood> In Debian, the "which" program moved from /usr/bin/ to /bin/ just a bit too late for sarge.
[12:26] <Kamion> fair enough ...
[12:26] <infinity> Anyhow, with everyone and their dog always complaining that booting takes too long, I'm all for switching to shell builtins where we can.
[12:26] <Kamion> I'd definitely import the guts of which as a function, one way or another
[12:26] <Kamion> after all the current /usr/bin/which started out as exactly that
[12:26] <jdthood> Tes
[12:26] <jdthood> s/T/Y/
[12:27] <jdthood> Hmm...
[12:27] <jdthood> Unpacking replacement linux-image-686 ...
[12:27] <jdthood> Setting up linux-image-2.6.12-8-686 (2.6.12-8.12) ...
[12:27] <jdthood> cpio: ./etc/udev/rules.d/001.rules: No such file or directory
[12:27] <jdthood> Eww.
[12:28] <infinity> Blame jbailey.
[12:28] <jdthood> Is this something I want to investigate just before lunch?
[12:29] <jdthood> ~$ ls -l /etc/udev/rules.d/001.rules
[12:29] <jdthood> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 18 2005-07-07 13:03 /etc/udev/rules.d/001.rules -> ../alsa-base.rules
[12:29] <jdthood> WTF?
[12:30] <Kamion> I hate Ctrl-\
[12:30] <Keybuk> *sulk* depmod took too long
[12:30] <Diziet> k: You hate C-\ ?  I like it.
[12:31] <Kamion> I hit it by accident a lot when aiming for C-z
[12:31] <Diziet> stty it somewhere else ?
[12:31] <Diziet> Oh, I know what your problem is.  You have ctrl in the wrong placew.
[12:32] <Keybuk> what's C-\ ?
[12:32] <Keybuk> other than the key to make dselect core dump? :p
[12:32] <Kamion> Diziet: position of Ctrl isn't relevant, it's that \ and z are adjacent
[12:32] <koke> well, on spanish keyboards is worse, it's Ctrl+AltGr+
[12:32] <Kamion> but yeah, I keep meaning to stty it, I'd just have to do it everywhere or I'd get even more confused
[12:33] <koke> you need two hands for it
[12:33] <infinity> Then get a better keyboard, where \ is over [enter] , where it belongs.
[12:34] <Diziet> Aaargh, I HATE bugzilla !
[12:34] <tseng> its nice to know where my " and # 's are
[12:34] <Nafallo> Diziet: word
[12:34] <Keybuk> tseng: " should be above 2 ... see ascii(7) if you don't believe me <g>
[12:35] <tseng> Keybuk: not on any keyboard ive ever owned :)
[12:35] <tseng> until this one
[12:35] <infinity> mvo : Hrm, I think the last GTK upload made my python-gtk segv go away.
[12:36] <jdub> mjg59: "New IrDA Spec Shoots for 100Mbit/s Data Rate"
[12:36] <jdub> mjg59: "Of note, existing IrDA-enabled devices can be upgraded to the new protocol, thus offering the opportunity to accelerate the IrDA data transfer rates of devices in the field via a software update."
[12:36] <jdub> :-)
[12:37] <Nafallo> wow
[12:37] <jdub> let's be getting some of THAT!
[12:37] <Nafallo> 100Mbit to my cellphone would be... necessary ;-)
[12:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: unfortunately ascii(7) also argues for # above 3
[12:37] <jdub> might make irda useful
[12:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: sssh
[12:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: that's an entirely _separate_ issue <g>
[12:42] <Lathiat> hrm ive got firefox installed on a machien without ubuntu-desktop and it has no fonts
[12:42] <Lathiat> missing font deps or something?
[12:43] <Lathiat> no text anywhere at all
[12:44] <pitti> Lathiat: do you have firefox or mozilla-firefox?
[12:44] <zyga> pitti: would you mind if I were to convert all latin2 .po's to utf-8?
[12:44] <Lathiat> pitti: firefox im fairly sure but elt me look
[12:44] <Lathiat> ah i see
[12:45] <Lathiat> i have mozilla-firefox
[12:45] <Lathiat> it was a hoary upgrade
[12:45] <pitti> zyga: well, not just for the sake of it, that creates unnecessary work
[12:45] <Lathiat> on a box with xfce
[12:45] <Lathiat> that should be fixed...
[12:45] <Lathiat> in cases where ubuntu-desktop isnt installed
[12:45] <zyga> pitti: okay - ignore it then
[12:45] <pitti> Lathiat: hm, then you didn't have the metapackage installed?
[12:45] <Lathiat> pitti: no
[12:45] <pitti> Lathiat: ubuntu-desktop, that it
[12:45] <pitti> is
[12:45] <Lathiat> pitti: i dont have room on this machien to do that...
[12:45] <pitti> Lathiat: ok; I asked for the removal of mozilla-firefox several times, I will poke elmo again
[12:45] <Lathiat> pitti: if its removed will firefox be installed?
[12:46] <pitti> Lathiat: it creates nothing but confusion, and m-f is an old and insecure version
[12:46] <Lathiat> pitti: (thsi was an upgrade from hoary, so taht woudl explain why i have mozilla-firefox)
[12:46] <pitti> Lathiat: not automatically; maybe instead of dropping it, we should upload an empty transition package that depends on firefox
[12:46] <Lathiat> ok so firefox works fine
[12:46] <Lathiat> pitti: thats what im thinking...
[12:49] <pitti> sabdfl, elmo, fabbione: new dbus uploaded, that should fix the hal failure you saw
[12:55] <infinity> pitti : Note that an empty metapackage is no different from just having the package named "mozilla-firefox" in the first place, which egs the question "why did we rename it?"
[12:55] <pitti> infinity: right, I thought of dropping the current m-f source package and have firefox spit out an empty m-f package
[12:56] <infinity> pitti : (I've heard arguments in the past that packages names can be considered interfaces, and are hence both uncopyrightable and untrademarkable, but this is the wrong place to discuss that)
[12:56] <pitti> infinity: IIRC it was renamed due to trade mark issues
[12:56] <infinity> pitti : Right, but the empty package would still be mozilla-firefox, you see what I'm driving at?
[12:56] <pitti> infinity: right, but at least new installs won't see it
[12:56] <Mithrandir> infinity: I think mofo is ok with it, as long as we're doing it as part of a transition.
[12:56] <Mithrandir> infinity: at least that's the impression I've gotten from them.
[12:56] <pitti> infinity: and it would be in universe anyway
[12:57] <infinity> If I had to guess, I'd bet they would have been fine with the package name not changing at all, so long as the application branding didn't use the mozilla name, but who knows.
[12:57] <pitti> infinity: no idea about that, really
[12:57] <infinity> pitti : Having it in universe is little or no help, since you want it there to upgrade people who had a package installed from main in hoary.
[12:57] <pitti> infinity: hm, right
[12:58] <pitti> infinity: so without the ubuntu-desktop metapackage, current upgrades are hosed completely...
[12:58] <infinity> pitti : Pretty much, yes.  Without a transitional package, things will be very broken.
[12:58] <pitti> elmo: please sync postgresql and postgresql-common from Debian incoming
[12:59] <pitti> infinity: what would you prefer, one additonal deb from firefox, or an empty m-f source package?
[01:00] <infinity> pitti : I don't suppose it's a question of what I prefer.
[01:00] <pitti> no, just collecting opinions
[01:00] <infinity> pitti : Generating it from the firefox source is the path of least resistance.
[01:00] <pitti> I'd rather drop m-f source completely
[01:01] <pitti> ack
[01:01] <infinity> OTOH< generating it from an empty m-f source is a nice way to make sure m-f doesn't accidentally get unblacklisted and synced. :)
[01:02] <pitti> infinity: won't the generated debs collide anyway then?
[01:03] <pitti> it also has the advantage that I don't need to bother anybody to remove the m-f source package
[01:03] <Kamion> elmo: please sync binfmt-support 1.2.5
[01:05] <seb128> pitti: shouldn't the translations be fixed from rosetta now instead of patching the packages?
[01:05] <Kamion> elmo: man-db 2.4.3-2 as well, please; the col fix is good for many languages
[01:06] <pitti> seb128: well, yes, but (1) rosetta will import them and (2) I still don't get rosetta exports
[01:06] <seb128> pitti: are you sure for (1)? I thought that rosetta changes have priority over the .po 
[01:07] <seb128> ie: if you have different rosetta and po strings it uses the rosetta one
[01:07] <infinity> ... Assuming they're not fuzzy?
[01:07] <pitti> seb128: hm, that shouldn't be the case; I'll ask carlos
[01:07] <pitti> I didn't change the actual strings, but the header
[01:07] <seb128> pitti: that's what carlos said to me
[01:07] <seb128> k
[01:07] <pitti> the strings were unicode, the header stated latin2
[01:08] <pitti> seb128: ok, I will poke him to change that :-)
[01:08] <seb128> pitti: he he
[01:09] <Saba_Z> fabbione: what should be the content of license.txt? :)
[01:12] <frans-th> hi all
[01:20] <Lathiat> pitti: question
[01:20] <Lathiat> pitti: why do we have mozilla-thunderbrid
[01:20] <Lathiat> pitti: instead of 'thunderbird' ?
[01:20] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: because it hasn't been renamed yet.
[01:21] <Lathiat> right
[01:21] <pitti> Kamion: is it possible that the current install CDs don't install language-support-en accidentially?
[01:21] <pitti> Lathiat: I really don't know, I didn't rename firefox in the first place
[01:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: they do install them; I just did an install now.
[01:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, checking #14392
[01:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: but it seems like apt-cdrom isn't able to pass the question to the frontend properly, so you need to pop the media into the drive after booting to make it work correctly.
[01:23] <sivang> Mithrandir: where are you with Xen suport goal? I saw it was deferred, will it be open again for specing and work sometime soon?
[01:23] <Mithrandir> pitti: I can do a test install without a network connection, if you'd like?
[01:23] <Kamion> pitti: I think the root problem is that archive-copier doesn't follow dependencies when deciding what packages to copy where
[01:23] <Mithrandir> sivang: yes, I'm hoping we'll have something for breezy+1
[01:24] <Kamion> so it copies language-support-en.deb but not its dependencies, so apt prompts
[01:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: well, it's not that urgent, let's just check at the next regular test install (I will do it, too)
[01:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, would it be possible to get archive-copier to rather do an apt-get --download-only run instead of copying by itself?
[01:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that runs the risk of running into an apt CD prompt at an even more inconvenient point, doesn't it?
[01:27] <Mithrandir> Kamion: not if you make sure to mount the cd already.
[01:27] <Kamion> yeah, I guess
[01:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: archive-copier can mount the cdrom at /target/cdrom, chroot into /target and do apt-get --download-only (or aptitude, probably)
[01:28] <Kamion> the alternative (and probably less intrusive at this point) would be to add Task: headers on the CD for stuff that's a dependency of language-support-*
[01:28] <Kamion> we could have germinate work that out
[01:28] <fabbione> Saba_Z: apt-get source redhat-cluster-suite and look to debian/copyright
[01:29] <fabbione> Saba_Z: do something along those lines and it would be perfect
[01:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: mhm, with preview close and all that.
[01:35] <Kamion> yeah ...
[01:36] <Kamion> although it will involve some very hairy germinate use
[01:52] <doko> mvo: do you ping me all the time, or is this some kind of irc spammer?
[01:52] <mvo> doko: it was me, I wanted you to test the apt-listchnages package and see it curses the segfault
[01:53] <doko> mvo: I did reply, didn't you get the answer?
[01:53] <mvo> doko: no, I didn't get the answer
[01:53] <doko> mvo: now?
[01:53] <mvo> doko: no
[01:54] <mvo> doko: do you not have a registered nick? maybe freenode is blocking you?
[01:54] <doko> mvo: no, should I?
[01:54] <seb128> doko: yeah, as mvo said, freenode blocks query from not registred users now
[01:54] <seb128> doko: look on your server tab, you should have some msg about that
[01:55] <seb128> you got one every time you try to speak to somebody by query
[01:55] <jbailey> Keybuk: pong
[01:56] <Keybuk> jbailey: gah, get me as I'm going to lunch, why don't you? :p
[01:56] <Keybuk> around in an hour?
[01:56] <jbailey> Keybuk: Yup. =)
[01:56] <mvo> doko: does the package work for you?
[01:56] <doko> mvo: yes
[01:57] <Keybuk> (context: looks like there's still a udev+initramfs bug out there)
[01:57] <mvo> doko: thanks
[01:59] <doko_>  /msg nickserv link doko dedacon
[02:27] <pef> does linux-kernel 2.6.13 will be include into breezy before release ?
[02:27] <ivoks> i don't think so
[02:29] <pitti> definitively not
[02:29] <zul> no it wont
[02:41] <ivoks> elmo: openvpn needs sync from debian due security problems
[02:48] <pef> is it possible to use loop in a Makefile ? (debian/rules) like for dir in foo foo2 do cp $foo bin/$foo done ? I have a problem with the $dir var, don't know how to use it,$dir and $$dir won't work
[02:48] <Mithrandir> for dir in foo foo2; do cp $$foo bin/$$foo ; done should work fine
[02:51] <Kamion> $$foo -> $$dir there
[02:51] <Mithrandir> yeah, true
[02:53] <pef> works fine, thank you !
[02:54] <sivang> Mithrandir: is the spec going to be rediscussed at UBZ? (re: Xen)
[02:54] <Mithrandir> sivang: I don't know.
[03:01] <Mithrandir> that's like, 1990
[03:02] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: no, it'r "retro"
[03:11] <sivang> Treenaks: lol
[03:15] <bddebian> Morning
[03:16] <pef> bddebian: morning (what time have you got ?)
[03:17] <bddebian> 9:20am EDT
[03:18] <Diziet> keybuk: dpkg 1.13.11's configure.c has been put through some kind of mutant tab transformation.  What should I do about it ?
[03:18] <pef> 3:18 pm here :) big difference
[03:18] <Diziet> Setting my Emacs's tab-width to 2 for that file makes it looks sensible, but my diff is likely to be annoying somehow.
[03:19] <Keybuk> heh, wonder who did that
[03:20] <Keybuk> somewhen while it was in CVS
[03:20] <Keybuk> the source is such a mess coding-style-wise I wouldn't worry too much
[03:20] <Keybuk> nearly all the bits of code have a different style
[03:21] <Diziet> If you want to put it back, in this case sending it through expand -t2 will probably DTRT.
[03:22] <pitti> re
[03:29] <pitti> ogra: ping
[03:29] <ogra> pitti, pong
[03:29] <pitti>    * Added postgresql to server-i386, server-amd64, server-powerpc,
[03:29] <pitti>      server-ia64
[03:29] <pitti> ogra: you don't want that
[03:29] <ogra> wrong ? 
[03:30] <pitti> ogra: you want postgresql-8.0
[03:30] <ogra> ok, what do i want ? 
[03:30] <ogra> oki
[03:30] <pitti> ogra: postgresql is the transition package for hoary->breezy upgrades
[03:30] <pitti> and will pull in 7.4
[03:30] <ogra> pitti, is it safe to assume that moodle will work with 8.0 ?
[03:30] <pitti> ogra: yes
[03:30] <pitti> ogra: it is a client-side application, and the lipq API is the same for 7.4, 8.0, 8.1
[03:30] <ogra> pitti, i know, i was just carefully and thought postgresql will deal with it in the future too :)
[03:31] <ogra> i'll change it right away
[03:31] <pitti> ogra: no, postgresql will disappear after the breezy and etch release
[03:31] <pitti> (at least if we don't want to support upgrades with skipping releases)
[03:32] <tepsipakki> seb128: the gnome-screensaver locking is fixed in CVS, hopefully a new version is coming
[03:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: hmm?  I thought upgrades from any supported version to any supported version was supported?
[03:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: not sure, not in Debian at least; is that guaranteed somewhere?
[03:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: we can't support upgrades from warty forever...
[03:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: not in Debian, I was talking about Ubuntu.
[03:33] <pitti> right
[03:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: warty won't be supported forever. :-)
[03:33] <Kamion> pitti,Mithrandir: ok, I'm making good progress with the germinate/cdimage/archive-copier hacking to fix language-support copying
[03:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, so warty->breezy+1 is the maximum
[03:33] <pitti> Kamion: you rock :-)
[03:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: breezy+1 will be more painful, with a five year release cycle, but ISTR not the same guarantee being given there.
[03:34] <seb128> tepsipakki: cool
[03:35] <tepsipakki> unfortunately the fix for gnome-session-save did not make it in 2.12, so the logout-button doesn't really work
[03:37] <tepsipakki> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149447 that's the fix for gnome-session-save.. too much for breezy?
[03:39] <seb128> tepsipakki: it's useful to do what?
[03:39] <tepsipakki> for classrooms.. to log out people
[03:39] <tepsipakki> who left the session locked
[03:40] <tepsipakki> xlock has had that feature, xscreensaver no
[03:40] <tepsipakki> that's why I'm particularly interested in g-s ;)
[03:42] <tepsipakki> seb128: I might test that first..
[03:42] <seb128> tepsipakki: yep, would be nice to try it first
[03:46] <Lathiat_> gnomescreensaver is slow and keeps not bringing the unlock dialgo up :\
[03:46] <ogra> Lathiat_, it will be better if we ship it in breezy+1 ;)
[03:48] <tepsipakki> lathiat: maybe you missed my message, but the reason is in pango
[03:48] <Lathiat_> tepsipakki: oh?
[03:48] <seb128> pango what?
[03:48] <tepsipakki> try running it from a console and you'll see
[03:49] <tepsipakki> it makes _a_lot_ of warnings
[03:49] <Lathiat_> warnings dont mean its broken? ;p
[03:49] <tepsipakki> invalid utf-8 string passed to pango_layout_set_text
[03:49] <infinity> mvo : You are THE Man.
[03:49] <tepsipakki> that's what it complains
[03:49] <tepsipakki> lathiat: it doesn't do that on my laptop ;)
[03:49] <Keybuk> seb128: every time metacity crashes, I'm putting aside a beating for you
[03:50] <tepsipakki> but on a desktop comp yes
[03:50] <Keybuk> ;)
[03:50] <Lathiat_> Keybuk: haha
[03:50] <seb128> Keybuk: nobody is able to get a correct backtrace, so stop complaining and get one :p
[03:50] <mvo> infinity: it's a bit half-assed, but should work in the common cases (libapt is a pain sometimes)
[03:51] <seb128> Keybuk: s/correct/debug/
[03:51] <Keybuk> seb128: tell me how
[03:51] <Keybuk> would starting it in gdb be sufficient
[03:51] <seb128> rebuild the package with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="noopt nostrip"
[03:51] <seb128> install it
[03:51] <seb128> switch to an another X or VT
[03:51] <seb128> attach gdb on it
[03:51] <Keybuk> can't I just start it to replace the running one?
[03:51] <Keybuk> inside gdb
[03:51] <seb128> switch back
[03:52] <infinity> mvo : Half-assed is fine, I figure just adding (but never allowing removing) packages shouldn't be TOO much hassle.
[03:52] <seb128> if you do that you are screwed when it crashes
[03:52] <seb128> because your window manager hangs due to gdb
[03:52] <Keybuk> that's ok
[03:52] <seb128> so you can't type "bt" of do anything
[03:52] <infinity> mvo : (I would have just piped the output of apt-get -s dist-upgrade and parsed it, so y'know, good thing you did something more reasonable) :)
[03:52] <Keybuk> I was thinking of running it on vt1
[03:53] <seb128> Keybuk: anyway, just do a debug build and attach it with gdb as you want ... nobody has got a crash with a home built version
[03:53] <seb128> Keybuk: I'm running it with gdb since this morning by example
[03:53] <mvo> infinity: heh :) [well, only adding, no removing is unfortunately not as trivial as I had hoped but it may be just me overlooking something in libapt] 
[03:53] <Keybuk> interesting
[03:53] <Keybuk> have you pushed a rebuild through ?
[03:53] <seb128> yeah
[03:54] <infinity> mvo : Overlooking what?... That libapt is fairly useless?
[03:54] <Keybuk> uh, gnome-pkg-tools wants me to install exim !?"!?$!$
[03:54] <seb128> Keybuk: it has been rebuilt to get ride of glitz Depends a few days ago
[03:55] <mvo> infinity: yeah, something along that lines. That it likes playing "cripple mr. onion" with me maybe
[03:55] <infinity> Cripple... Mr.. Onion?
[03:55] <mvo> infinity: you don't read discworld novels, do you? nevermind then :)
[03:55] <infinity> That's got to be some crazy German pop culture reference.
[03:55] <infinity> Oh.  Or Discworld.  Also something I'm not into. :)
[03:56] <tepsipakki> seb128: the patched gnome-session-save worked fine ;)
[03:56] <seb128> cool
[03:56] <infinity> Keybuk : Deep enough down in it's dependencies, I find an m-t-a dep, but not exim..
[03:58] <Keybuk> exim provides m-t-a
[03:59] <infinity> Keybuk : Well, yes, ut that hardly constitutes a dependency on "exim".
[03:59] <Keybuk> syndicate ubuntu% file =metacity
[03:59] <Keybuk> /usr/bin/metacity: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
[03:59] <Keybuk> ok
[03:59] <Keybuk> infinity: I don't want an m-t-a on this box <g>
[03:59] <Keybuk> at least, I'm trying to hold out as long as I can without one
[03:59] <infinity> Keybuk : nullmailer or ssmtp
[04:00] <infinity> (depending on whether you want something that functions or not)
[04:00] <Treenaks> mtacity?
[04:00] <infinity> Oh, apparently they both work.  For some reason, I always assumed nullmailer mailed ot /dev/null... Never read the description until today.,  Go me.
[04:00] <mvo> Kamion: I'm looking into the "media-change" message for the status-fd now. will you be able to send a "\n" to aptitudes stdin? 
[04:00] <Keybuk> yeah, I'm away
[04:01] <Keybuk> uh
[04:01] <Keybuk> aware that they exist
[04:01] <Keybuk> never looked to see which supports smtp-auth
[04:02] <Treenaks> Keybuk: postfix does :)
[04:02] <Kamion> mvo: I might have to create a named pipe to do it, but I think it should be possible
[04:03] <Keybuk> Treenaks: I asked the maintainer how to configure it, and he said "uhhhhh"
[04:03] <Keybuk> that filled me with confidence
[04:03] <Keybuk> and exim excites me with its 4,000 config files
[04:03] <Treenaks> Keybuk: It's 4 lines of postconf, 1 line of echo and 1 line of postmap
[04:04] <Treenaks> Keybuk: (after dpkg-reconfigure -> satellite system)
[04:04] <Keybuk> I don't want an MTA on here, I want mail to get sent to a smarthost and that's it
[04:05] <pitti> infinity: still here?
[04:06] <pitti> infinity: lamont's script for importing langpack tarballs seems to have stopped since 20050826; so I take it that I just pull the tarballs from the buildds myself?
[04:07] <infinity> Keybuk : ssmtp.conf(5) leads me to believe it support both SMTP AUTH and TLS.
[04:07] <Keybuk> yeah
[04:08] <Keybuk> otoh, why does subversion-tools _ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE_ an mta? :
[04:08] <Keybuk> that should be a Recommends at most <g>
[04:08] <Lathiat_> use fakes ;p
... Who knows.
[04:09] <infinity> pitti : Well, it probably means I was wrong about the script not needing modification.  But if you're ready tp pull from the buildds directly, that's better anyway. :)
[04:09] <Keybuk> Lathiat_: well, I just stuck something on the end of status by hand
[04:09] <Keybuk> cat >>/var/lib/dpkg/status <<EOF
[04:09] <Keybuk> Package: mail-transport-agent
[04:09] <Lathiat_> Keybuk: eeww ;p
[04:09] <Keybuk> Status: install ok installed
[04:09] <Keybuk> Version: 1
[04:10] <Keybuk> 
[04:10] <hmrocha> hello
[04:10] <Keybuk> EOF
[04:10] <Keybuk> :p
[04:10] <hmrocha> how can i change the user that is allowed to mount the usb devices?
[04:10] <hmrocha> i tried in /etc/udev/udev.rules
[04:10] <hmrocha> changed from plugdev to students
[04:10] <hmrocha> but it didn't work
[04:11] <Mithrandir> hmrocha: just add the relevant people to the plugdev group.
[04:11] <hmrocha> Mithrandir, i tried that, but all users are stored in AD, and getent passwd doesn't return all the users
[04:11] <hmrocha> but that's what i did
[04:12] <Keybuk> plugdev is hard-coded into pmount, isn't it?
[04:12] <hmrocha> Keybuk, it shouldn't be
[04:12] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no, but it's just executable by group plugdev.
[04:12] <pitti> Keybuk: no, why?
[04:12] <Mithrandir> hmrocha: you could also use dpkg-statoverride and change the group pmount belongs to.
[04:12] <Keybuk> ah, that's it then
[04:12] <hmrocha> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sd[a-z] *", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/removable.sh %k", RESULT="1", NAME="%k", MODE="0640", GROUP="plugdev"
[04:12] <hmrocha> this is from udev.rules
[04:13] <pitti> right
[04:13] <pitti> but not in pmount
[04:13] <hmrocha> i hope that works, this is getting me a lot of trouble
[04:13] <hmrocha> some users can't mount their usb disks
[04:13] <pitti> Keybuk: the device group matters for hal (hal needs to be in the group of the devices it should know about)
[04:14] <pitti> but it doesn't matter at all for pmount
[04:14] <jdub> (YAY PMOUNT!)
[04:14] <hmrocha> i'll change the group that pmount belongs too
[04:15] <Keybuk> hmrocha: make sure hal is in your students group too
[04:15] <pitti> jbailey: it can't be that bad if Gentoo and even SuSE adopt it, and RedHat wants to, too :-)
[04:15] <Keybuk> SuSE broke it though <g>
[04:15] <tseng> suse is still using submount
[04:15] <pitti> Keybuk: well, they asked me to adopt their autocrap stuff
[04:15] <tseng> unfortaunately
[04:15] <jdub> is jbailey dissing pmount?
[04:16] <Keybuk> they took out the fstab code, didn't they?
[04:16] <pitti> jdub: "dissing"?
[04:16] <jdub> tseng: the ximians will get it through
[04:16] <jdub> pitti: disrespecting
[04:16] <pitti> Keybuk: no that I know
[04:16] <tseng> jdub: i dunno dude
[04:16] <tseng> jdub: its getting close to the wire with no luck yet
[04:16] <CarlFK> 5 min old breezy install, logged in as user, dialog: "failed to init HAL, OK"
[04:16] <pitti> CarlFK: right, already fixed
[04:16] <jdub> tseng: oh, not for 10
[04:16] <tseng> jdub: i beat up on snorp and abock daily
[04:16] <jdub> you beat up on the wrong people!
[04:16] <pitti> jdub: I don't know why jbailey should, maybe ask him directly?
[04:16] <tseng> i know
[04:16] <CarlFK> pitti - good.  then I wont fight with bugzilla ;)
[04:16] <tseng> but i already deal with them
[04:17] <jdub> pitti: you were just telling him it can't be that bad
[04:17] <tseng> jdub: who do we beat up over this Crystal abortion?
[04:17] <Keybuk> jdub: no, pitti just needs his <Tab> key removed until he learns to be more careful where he points it <g>
[04:17] <pitti> CarlFK: tomorrow's CD will work again, and if you just dist-upgrade, it will work, too
[04:17] <jdub> oh
[04:17] <hmrocha> Keybuk, ok, i'll do that
[04:17] <jdub> misfired tab completion
[04:17] <tseng> jdub: and why isnt planet gnome flaming it silly
[04:17] <CarlFK> pitti - dist-upgrade now or tomorow?
[04:17] <pitti> jdub: ETABUSAGE, sorry :-/
[04:17] <jdub> tseng: well, because most people on pgo don't really care about suse ;)
[04:17] <pitti> CarlFK: now should work, you need dbus 0.36.1-0ubuntu2
[04:18] <jdub> pitti: i'm pimping it everywhere :)
[04:18] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, just restored completion_amount=0 again :-)
[04:19] <Keybuk> you haven't got anywhere in the world unless you've been flamed on Planet GNOME
[04:19] <Keybuk> usually by someone who preaches it about a week later
[04:21] <CarlFK> same breezy install, no dist..up yet: juser@dhcp179:~$ sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list
[04:21] <CarlFK> I enter the pw, and it returns me to the prompt.  
[04:21] <CarlFK> vi alone brings up vi
[04:22] <CarlFK> vi /etc/apt/sources.list (no sudo) brings up the file readonly (as it should)
[04:22] <CarlFK> never mind
[04:22] <CarlFK> user isn't in suders.
[04:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: got a second?
[04:24] <Diziet> keybuk: There's a bunch of code in processarc.c which deals with statting all of the old files and comparing it to the stat of each new file to see if actually some of the `disappearing' files are the same although they have different names due to symlinks.
[04:24] <ogra> CarlFK, the user doesnt need to be in sudoers
[04:24] <Diziet> Do you know where it came from ?  It's rather strange.
[04:24] <CarlFK> because this box was built with a preseed file, a root pw, user and userpw were set.  any idea how to have the install add the user to sudoers?
[04:24] <Diziet> If it came from somewhere silly then I'll just assume that I'm right and it's wrong.  But if it came from somewhere sensible I should worry that I'm missing something.
[04:24] <ogra> CarlFK, your sudoers file should have a line like: %admin  ALL=(ALL) ALL
[04:24] <ogra> CarlFK, and the user should be in the admin group
[04:25] <Keybuk> Diziet: which lines?
[04:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 13920; verified, seems to be fixed by setting STATE to 8, not 9 on line 317 and 327 of passwd.config.  Seems sane to you?
[04:25] <hmrocha> Keybuk, it didn't work, i'll try changing udev.rules and restarting udevd, hald and hotplug
[04:26] <CarlFK> ogra - in a default install, is the user in the admin group?  I thought the insatller just put the username in sudoers
[04:26] <ogra> CarlFK, that was warty ;)
[04:27] <ogra> CarlFK, we have the admin group since hoary
[04:27] <Keybuk> Diziet: 609-647 ?
[04:27] <CarlFK> ogra - ah. thanks.  good idea ;)
[04:28] <CarlFK> ogra - so shouldn't that line be in my sudoers? 
[04:28] <ogra> yup
[04:28] <CarlFK> or do I just get "root    ALL=(ALL) ALL" because I setup a root pw via the preseed file?
[04:28] <Diziet> Yes, around there.
[04:28] <ogra> CarlFK, i have both in a new install
[04:29] <Diziet> For example, it does rmdir(foo).  And then later in if (ENOTDIR) it goes stat(foo) and checks S_ISDIR.
[04:29] <ogra> CarlFK, i'm not sure how it gets handled on installation ...
[04:29] <Diziet> If the rmdir fails ENOTDIR and the stat succeeds then it must not be a dir ...
[04:29] <Diziet> And it goes on trying to delete the file after failing to stat it, which seems rather enthusiastic.
[04:30] <CarlFK> maybe I should get my preseed file a bit more in line with a default install.
[04:30] <Keybuk> +  * Merge patches from Ben Collins <bcollins@debian.org>:
[04:30] <Keybuk> +    + fix windowresizing in dselect
[04:30] <Keybuk> +    + when upgrading check if a file is not also in the new package before removing
[04:30] <Keybuk> +	  it, so we don't remove new files due to symlinks confusing us
[04:30] <Keybuk>  Tue Oct 12 17:15:08 CEST 1999 Wichert Akkerman <wakkerma@debian.org>
[04:31] <Diziet> Right, I'll assume I'm right, then :-).  Thanks.
[04:31] <Diziet> I also rather dislike:
[04:31] <Diziet>       if (donotrm) continue;
[04:31] <Diziet>       {
[04:31] <Diziet> Recipe for confusion.
[04:32] <mvo> Kamion: would a message like "media-change:$medium:$drive" (e.g. "media-change: Ubuntu 5.10 _Breezy_ : /cdrom") be ok for you? Or should I also send someting human-readable
[04:32] <pitti> elmo: please sync openvpn
[04:32] <Keybuk> waaaaaah
[04:33] <Keybuk> that is horrible
[04:33] <Keybuk> dpkg has lots of things like that
[04:33] <Keybuk> people just inserting code randomly into functions
[04:34] <hmrocha> i'll try rebooting, if this doesn't work, i don't know how i can let users use ubuntu :(
[04:35] <Keybuk> hmrocha: put them into the plugdev grop?
[04:35] <Keybuk> uh, group
[04:35] <hmrocha> Keybuk, i'll try to explain my set up
[04:35] <hmrocha> Keybuk, all users are stored in AD
[04:36] <Keybuk> "AD" ?
[04:36] <hmrocha> i did a very ugly hack that used "getent passwd", with awk to get the username, and add all users to the plugdev group
[04:36] <hmrocha> Microsoft Active Directory
[04:36] <hmrocha> all computers boot from PXE
[04:36] <Keybuk> so you're using nsswitch 
[04:36] <Keybuk> with something like passwd: active-directory ?
[04:36] <hmrocha> yes, nsswitch and kerberos, exactly
[04:36] <Keybuk> right
[04:36] <Keybuk> can't you just do group: active-directory too
[04:36] <Keybuk> and add them to the plugdev group that way?
[04:37] <hmrocha> i don't know :(
[04:37] <hmrocha> everytime a computer is turned on, it prompts the user for winxp or ubuntu
[04:37] <Diziet> Also, if you have a set-id special file it fails to chmod it 0, chmodding it to remove the set-id instead.
[04:38] <hmrocha> they choose ubuntu, it gets downloaded from the server and installed locally (not really like this, but it's something like this)
[04:38] <Keybuk> otherwise change the plugdev in both places in /etc/udev/permissions.rules, use dpkg-statoverride to change the group of /usr/bin/pmount and /usr/bin/pumount, and make sure hal is in the new group too
[04:38] <Keybuk> ...
[04:38] <Keybuk> though I don't understand how you can have this magic "students" group, yet can't have a "plugdev" one
[04:38] <hmrocha> Keybuk, i didn't use dpkg-statoverride, i used chgroup students plugdev
[04:39] <hmrocha> i have a plugdev group, but i want all users that belong to students, to also belong to plugdev
[04:39] <hmrocha> but uid and gid are stored in AD
[04:39] <Keybuk> you can't do that in UNIX
[04:39] <Keybuk> groups can't be nested
[04:40] <hmrocha> can i do that with ACL ?
[04:40] <Mithrandir> not with any regular NSS module, at least. :-P
[04:40] <Keybuk> it sounds like you need to add all your students to plugdev in AD
[04:41] <hmrocha> Keybuk, that's what i don't know how to do
[04:41] <Mithrandir> hmrocha: just make a plugdev group in the domain manager and then add everybody to it?
[04:42] <Diziet> Is this an NT support channel, suddenly ?
[04:42] <hmrocha> Diziet, not, i'm just trying to swith my faculty from mandrake to ubuntu
[04:42] <Diziet> Ahh.  OK, sorry.
[04:42] <hmrocha> *switch
[04:43] <Diziet> I should go back to my (well, Ben Collin's, it seems) code.
[04:43] <Diziet> Collins's.
[04:44] <hmrocha> Mithrandir, i'll try that
[04:52] <xhaker> hello all
[04:52] <xhaker> is the Services thingy working?
[04:52] <xhaker> it didn't disabled the ntpdate service :S
[04:52] <ivoks> xhaker: #ubuntu is the right channel
[04:53] <xhaker> it is not
[04:53] <ivoks> :) ok
[04:53] <xhaker> Services in breezy man
[04:53] <xhaker> there is a new app/let
[04:53] <ogra> xhaker, support questions for any release go to #ubuntu
[04:54] <ogra> that has nothing to do with breezy/non breezy....
[04:55] <xhaker> since here is where the developers are i thought i would share that it doesn't work here.. and learn if the behavior is known
[04:55] <xhaker> looks to me that you're all a little pissed of with somebody today
[04:55] <ogra> did you look in bugzilla for bugs about it ? 
[04:55] <xhaker> :)
[04:55] <hmrocha> Mithrandir, i added my student user to the plugdev group in AD, i'll check if it worked
[04:56] <xhaker> i don't know the name of the thing.. i'm checking the ps aux now
[04:56] <ogra> xhaker, i dont know why you think that, i only said that breezy support questions go to #ubuntu too, to correct your assumption that #ubuntu is not for breezy support
[04:57] <xhaker> services-admin
[04:57] <elmo> Kamion: ?
[04:58] <xhaker> ogra, and you assumed i was asking for support, i know how to disable ntpdate. i was just leeting you all know and possibly the dev behind it
[04:58] <xhaker> wow
[04:58] <xhaker> leeting = letting
[04:58] <xhaker> lol
 xhaker: #ubuntu is the right channel
 it is not
 :) ok
 Services in breezy man
[04:58] <xhaker> ohh, now i realize how you could think that :P sorry
[04:58] <ogra> :)
[04:58] <xhaker> i was a bit strict there
[04:59] <ogra> if you look for a bug, look for gnome-system-tools, its a part of it
[05:05] <nomed^> hi all
[05:05] <nomed^> where can i find the breezy usplash?
[05:05] <mjg59> nomed^: In Breezy
[05:05] <bddebian> Hello nomed^
[05:05] <ogra> apt-get install usplash ;)
[05:06] <ogra> nomed^, mjg59 wrote a fine guide to the ubuntu-devel ML
[05:07] <nomed^> ok thanks
[05:09] <xhaker> seb already filled the bug :P
[05:11] <hmrocha> Mithrandir, i found a better way, i changed the group to "students" but added a suid bit
[05:11] <hmrocha> it's working perfectly
[05:11] <hmrocha> ubuntu for everyone now! :)
[05:11] <hmrocha> i'm very happy
[05:23] <Keybuk> hmm
[05:23] <Keybuk> there's some annoying new interaction between zsh and sudo in breezy
[05:24] <Keybuk> it bitches about "insecure directories and files" and then my ~/.zcompdump gets overwritten
[05:25] <zyga> hello
[05:25] <zyga> I'm looking for the source of a popup dialog that appears on hoary after inserting breezy install cd
[05:25] <zyga> It does not appear to be anywhere on the cd
[05:26] <ogra> zyga, update-manager
[05:26] <Mitario> zyga, can you provide a screenshot? maybe I can recognize it
[05:26] <zyga> sure
[05:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes, looks like I forgot to renumber those at some point
[05:26] <zyga> one moment
[05:26] <Kamion> mvo: that's OK, although if you want to provide a pre-l10ned message so that I don't have to deal with the translation that's fine with me too :)
[05:27] <Kamion> mvo: although you'd have to make sure that the message never contained newlines, probably
[05:27] <zyga> http://www.suxx.pl/breezy-popup-dialog
[05:27] <Kamion> elmo: ?
[05:27] <zyga> ogra: are you sure?
[05:27] <zyga> ogra: I'm translating u-m regulary and I've never seen that message
[05:27] <Saba_Z> fabbione: hi!
[05:28] <ogra> zyga, pretty sure... either update-manager or -notifier
[05:28] <daniels> dear seb, i would really like it if my panel stopped crashing all the time, even when i'm not using the computer.  please make it so.  love, daniels
[05:28] <fabbione> Saba_Z: hey..
[05:28] <zyga> ogra: thanks I'll double-check
[05:28] <fabbione> Saba_Z: i just got your package.. is there any reason for moving postinst to preinst?
[05:28] <Saba_Z> for the upgrade problem
[05:29] <zyga> mvo: ping
[05:29] <Saba_Z> fabbione: the argument "upgrade" and "install" are passed to preinst
[05:29] <Kamion> zyga: update-notifier/src/hal.c
[05:29] <WaterSevenUb> zyga, ok ... I will check both now...
[05:29] <fabbione> Saba_Z: ohh eheheh hold on a sec :)
[05:29] <Mitario> ogra, probably notifier
[05:29] <mvo> zyga: pong
[05:29] <fabbione> Saba_Z: # postinst configure most-recently-configured-version 
[05:29] <ogra> Mitario, see Kamion ;)
[05:30] <Mitario> ogra, the quick bastard ;-)
[05:30] <fabbione> Saba_Z: if the package is installing most-recently-configured-version is empty
[05:30] <ogra> hehe
[05:30] <fabbione> Saba_Z: so you get something like if [ "$1" ]  && [ -z "$2" ] ; then
[05:31] <zyga> mvo: what is the status of u-m in cvs? is it frozen?
[05:31] <Saba_Z> :( :)
[05:31] <fabbione> Saba_Z: doing that stuff at preinst is more object of troubles than anything else because in a clean install of the system you might not have any of the other config files installed yet
[05:31] <Mitario> zyga, no
[05:31] <fabbione> Saba_Z: nothing to be sad :) i was a bit evil on this one ;)
[05:31] <fabbione> Saba_Z: but you did good :)
[05:32] <WaterSevenUb> zyga, in update-notifier template in Rosetta it isn't... did you find it?
[05:32] <fabbione> Saba_Z: it's not an easy catch at all
[05:32] <Saba_Z> thanks :)
[05:32] <fabbione> Saba_Z: a lot developer mess them in a much worst way thatn you did :)
[05:32] <zyga> WaterSevenUb: no, I'm still checking
[05:33] <zyga> mvo: was update-notifier split from update-manager?
[05:33] <zyga> (in cvs)
[05:33] <Mitario> it was never in one package
[05:33] <Saba_Z> fabbione:  Can I send the new version tommorow :) I 'm so sleepy!
[05:33] <zyga> Mitario: ah
[05:34] <mvo> zyga: it was always like this
[05:34] <zyga> what's the module name then, notifier?
[05:34] <fabbione> Saba_Z: sure. it's perfectly fine for me. it's the last bit that's missing :)
[05:34] <fabbione> Saba_Z: have a good night sleep and nice work :)
[05:35] <mvo> zyga: it's in a svn repository at oops.kerneljanitors.org
[05:35] <Kamion> I think it's always been broken
[05:35] <mvo> Kamion: I can do l10n too in the status-fd message if you want, that shouldn't be a problem
[05:35] <Saba_Z> fabbione: thanks, :) goodnight!
[05:35] <fabbione> night :)
[05:35] <WaterSevenUb> kamion,  you were refering with this -  update-notifier/src/hal.c to the string we were looking for?
[05:35] <zyga> mvo: is the cvs.gnome.org update-manager module still the current one?
[05:36] <CarlFK> installing breezy on a 40g drive that is all ntfs.  picked the first option "resize and use free space."  when I picked, the screen went blue with white bar at bottem.  that was about 5 min ago.  shouldn't there be some sort of "wokring..." message?
[05:36] <Kamion> mvo: if you've already got a translated message in apt, that would certainly be best
[05:36] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: yes
[05:36] <Kamion> CarlFK: probably, yes
[05:36] <mvo> zyga: yes, but the code is much ahead of the version in breezy (but not ready for breezy unfortunately)
[05:36] <Kamion> CarlFK: there are already open bugs about partman's ntfsresize support being inadequate in places
[05:36] <mvo> zyga: if you want to translate it, rosetta is probably the best choice right now
[05:36] <WaterSevenUb> zyga, it apparently is in update-notifier as kamion is saying.... but it isn't in the templates...  the question now is why?
[05:37] <Mitario> WaterSevenUb, maybe forgotton to l10nize?
[05:37] <zyga> mvo: one last question, do you plan to apply the i18n patches I've sent?
[05:37] <Mitario> eh i18nize whatever :)
[05:37] <zyga> WaterSevenUb: I'll try to check out the source for u-n in a moment, I've never used svn
[05:37] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: because po/POTFILES.in doesn't contain src/hal.c
[05:37] <Kamion> mvo: ^--
[05:37] <mvo> zyga: for update-manager? I haven't managed to look at them yet, but yes, very probably 
[05:37] <CarlFK> also, I don't see any disk io - does it crunch data for a while trying to fiugre out how to re-arange things?  or is it really hung?
[05:37] <mvo> Kamion: *ick* thanks
[05:37] <zyga> mvo: great, thanks!
[05:37] <Diziet> failed= "chmod";   ....     _(failed)    evil ?
[05:38] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, so what should be done, file a bug. Affirmative case, where?
[05:38] <Kamion> CarlFK: I don't know how the internals of ntfsresize work. Look at ps to see what's going on
[05:38] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I just told mvo about it above and he acknowledged it, so I imagine there's no need to file a bug anywhere
[05:39] <Kamion> Diziet: yes, evil; I doubt xgettext is going to manage to extract the translated string in that case
[05:39] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, mvo, thanks :)
[05:39] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: thanks for noticing
[05:39] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, will you reuse the translations already in Rosetta when you include that in the POT file?
[05:40] <zyga> mvo: err, is there any howto about that svn repo? the site seems slow or dead?
[05:41] <Diziet> xgettext greps the source for _("...") constructs, then ?  Should I     failed= _("chmod")  ?
[05:41] <CarlFK> Kamion - ps shows /bin/sh /lib/partman/automaticly_partition/resize
[05:41] <mvo> zyga: install subversion, than "svn co https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/upgrade-notifier/"
[05:41] <zyga> mvo, thanks again
[05:41] <mvo> zyga: your welcome
[05:41] <Diziet> The xgettext manpage and info page don't say what it does, unfortunately.
[05:42] <Kamion> Diziet: Yes, roughly. I'd question whether anyone will actually want to translate the string "chmod", though ...
[05:43] <Diziet> In this case it's sometimes "delete".
[05:44] <Kamion> Diziet: Is that string inserted into the middle of a sentence?
[05:45] <CarlFK> how do I find these partman bugs?  so far bugzilla says "no bugs" for everyting I search for
[05:45] <Diziet> Yes.  There are two sentences it appears in and they're very similar.
[05:45] <CarlFK> nm, found 32 bugs
[05:46] <Kamion> Diziet: then you should mark a format string representing the whole sentence as translatable, rather than trying to put the sentence together out of translatable pieces
[05:46] <Diziet> That's not possible because there's nowhere that knows the whole string.
[05:46] <Kamion> somebody might want to translate "chmod" to "change the mode of", and in (e.g.) German that might well involve putting "the mode of" before the filename and "change" after it.
[05:47] <Kamion> Correct internationalisation does often involve rejigging code, yes.
[05:47] <Diziet> Well, I could construct the English sentence out of pieces and then let the translators translate each version separately.  But there are about 6 or 8 cases.
[05:47] <Diziet> And you couldn't grep for them.
[05:48] <zyga> mvo: as usual I've found i18n stuff to fix, I'll send you a patch along with pl.po ASAP
[05:48] <Kamion> unfortunately that's usually the only approach that actually produces sanely translatable messages
[05:49] <Kamion> CarlFK: if .../automatically_partition/resize is showing in a ps listing and not ntfsresize, then it might be the resize script itself hanging
[05:49] <Kamion> CarlFK: I'd start by (a) looking through /var/log/partman and (b) putting 'set -x' near the top of the resize script, sort of in parallel
[05:49] <mvo> zyga: that's great, thanks
[05:50] <Kamion> I got larted recently by a Finnish translator for assembling a sentence out of pieces (although it was code I'd inherited, not written)
[05:50] <Diziet> Like this, then ?
[05:50] <Diziet>     char mbuf[250] ;
[05:50] <Diziet>     snprintf(mbuf, sizeof(mbuf), "failed to %s `%%.255s'", failed);
[05:50] <Diziet>     ohshite(_(mbuf),pathname);
[05:50] <mvo> Kamion: the default apt media-change string contains some \n :/. I need to build my own then
[05:51] <Kamion> Diziet: that won't work, would have to be _("failed to %s `%%.255s'")
[05:51] <mvo> Kamion: it will be a long message, is debconf able to wrap it?
[05:51] <Kamion> (and should that really be %% not %?)
[05:51] <Kamion> mvo: yes, debconf does its own wrapping
[05:51] <mvo> Kamion: ok, great
[05:51] <Kamion> Diziet: the thing inside _(...) ends up as the msgid in each .po file
[05:51] <Diziet> k: No, you don't understand.  So failed is something like "delete" or "chmod".
[05:52] <Diziet> mbuf ends up with  "failed to delete `%.255s'"  which is translatable.
[05:52] <Kamion> But the piece that extracts translatable strings does not run the code!
[05:52] <Diziet> You're saying that "failed to %s `%.255s'" isn't translateable.
[05:53] <Diziet> Indeed, as I said earlier `And you couldn't grep for them' to which you replied `unfortunately that's usually the only approach that actually produces sanely translatable messages'.
[05:53] <Kamion> since the first %s has a verb substituted into it, I'd say not.
[05:53] <Diziet> There's another place in the code where it says  "failed to %s old file `%.250s'"
[05:53] <Kamion> I would rewrite that as if (condition_for_delete) snprintf(mbuf, sizeof(mbuf), _("failed to delete `%.255s'")); else snprintf(mbuf, sizeof(mbuf), _("failed to chmod `%.255s'"));
[05:54] <Diziet> Cripes.
[05:54] <Diziet> That's insane.
[05:54] <Diziet> I have to replicate that code everywhere I use the thing that sets failed ?
[05:54] <Diziet> I could use a macro but then xgettext ....
[05:54] <CarlFK> Kamion -  "tail /var/log/partman" gives "parted_server: Line 
[05:54] <CarlFK> 1081. CRITICAL ERROR!!!  EXITING." as the last line. - which is http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13570
[05:54] <Kamion> well, you can do the snprintf yourself I suppose
[05:55] <Diziet> Do the snprintf myself ?  Eh ?
[05:55] <CarlFK> is that enough for me to change UNCONFIRMED to NEW?
[05:55] <Kamion> sorry, I have a small child crying at me, excuse incoherency
[05:55] <Diziet> *sympathy*
[05:56] <Kamion> that should've been "you can assign _(...) to a variable in each case and do the snprintf in one place later"
[05:56] <Kamion> but the bit inside _(...) generally cannot be split up or composed from natural-language pieces at run-time (obviously, substituting non-translatable things like filenames is OK)
[05:57] <Diziet> This is because of the limitations of xgettext ?
[05:57] <Diziet> And not for any other reason ?
[05:57] <Kamion> Diziet: no, it's because different languages might want to put the pieces you're trying to compose in a different order
[05:57] <Diziet> You're missing what I'm doing.
[05:57] <Kamion> "chmod" might well not be a single piece substitutable by one %s.
[05:58] <Kamion> the translation of "chmod", rather.
[05:58] <Diziet> If I compose /the piece inside/ _(...) out of English so that it makes an English sentence then the msgid will be always an English sentence with all the pieces substituted.
[05:58] <Diziet> So in my code with mbuf above, _(...) gets called like this _("failed to chmod `%.255s'") although the string inside ( ) is actually in mbuf.
[05:58] <Kamion> OK, I suppose that's down to the limitations of xgettext in that there does not currently exist a msgid extractor that analyses the code to determine all possible constructed msgids.
[05:59] <Diziet> I'd be happy to annotate my code suitably.  Provided it doesn't require me to replicate chunks of it !
[05:59] <Kamion> That extraction has to happen at build-time or else how do the translators know what to translate?
[06:00] <Diziet> Yes, but if the extractor were cleverer then I could annotate my code in a way that would allow the extractor to compute the set of possible messages.
[06:00] <Kamion> ah, I see what you're getting at
[06:01] <Diziet> What does xgettext currently do if you say  _(some expression it can't figure out)
[06:01] <Diziet> ?
[06:02] <Kamion> I think what I might do in your case is put the strings in #defines somewhere and assemble them inside a redundant gettext_noop() call somewhere; xgettext will be able to find the thing inside gettext_noop()
[06:03] <Kamion> currently do> ignore it, AFAIK
[06:04] <Kamion> the 'Preparing Program Sources' node of info gettext has various bits of useful advice
[06:04] <mvo> zyga: plesae do a svn up in the update-notifier dir, I added hal.c to POTFILES.in (and reworded a message)
[06:05] <zyga> mvo: k
[06:05] <zyga> mvo: I've noticed a very subtle issue
[06:05] <mdz> morning
[06:05] <zyga> mvo: i'm not sure you'd agree but here it goes:
[06:05] <jdthood> mornin'
[06:05] <zyga> when there are post update informations the tooltip says something like "click here to display post update info"
[06:06] <Mitario> mako, elmo ping
[06:06] <zyga> now the trick is: to correctly translate I need to know if there is one information or many 'informations' 
[06:06] <zyga> this becomes as subtle as 'informacj' (singular) vs 'informacje' (plural)
[06:07] <mdz> jdthood: the which->type change was a performance/simplicity thing
[06:07] <jdthood> mdz: Ah, OK
[06:07] <mvo> zyga: so it need to be a plural_gettext string? fine with me
[06:07] <zyga> mvo: do you know any way to run ./autogen.sh on  hoary and produce usable makefiles (for update-po and such)?
[06:07] <mdz> jdthood: some people were also having trouble with PATH; maybe they had older util-linux versions
[06:07] <zyga> mvo: yes, I'll pach this too
[06:07] <zyga> patch
[06:08] <Diziet> k: I'll do the thing with gettext_noop.  That'll at least twig the translators that there's something odd going on.
[06:08] <mdz> that could probably have been addressed with a dependency, but this method had other benefits
[06:08] <mvo> zyga: ./autogen.sh does not work on hoary for you?
[06:08] <zyga> mvo: no libnotify 
[06:08] <zyga> mvo: it's only in breezy
[06:09] <zyga> (i've resorted to cp random.po pl.po)
[06:09] <mvo> zyga: you need it only for i18n, right? just remove libnotify from configure.in (pkg_modules line)
[06:09] <Kamion> Diziet: right - sorry for the misunderstanding above
[06:09] <Diziet> Is N_( ) an alias for gettext_noop ?
[06:09] <Diziet> k: Thanks, NP.
[06:09] <zyga> mvo: smart, thanks
[06:09] <mvo> Diziet: yes
[06:12] <Kamion> well, typically you #define gettext_noop() and N_() yourself, but that's what xgettext expects, yes
[06:13] <Kamion> (info gettext, 'Comparing the Two Interfaces')
[06:21] <zyga> mvo:what do you mean by: "Click on the update item or the link to see the available Updates"
[06:21] <zyga> mvo: update item??
[06:21] <mvo> zyga: the little red icon that the arrow points at
[06:22] <zyga> mvo: I think I know where it appears but I'm puzzled about 'update item' what's that?
[06:22] <zyga> ah
[06:22] <zyga> sorry :)
[06:22] <zyga> now I understand
[06:22] <zyga> maybe that should be called 'update icon'?
[06:22] <Diziet> k: Something has already done N_ in dpkg.
[06:22] <mvo> zyga: right, that looks like a typo 
[06:22] <zyga> I'll fix it, thanks
[06:25] <mvo> good morning mdz, do you have a moment and if so, can I /msg you?
[06:25] <zyga> mvo: since this is not getting into breezy it's okay to break translations, right?
[06:26] <mvo> zyga: update-notifier is getting into breezy and we need to fix the strings today because tomorrow is string-freeze
[06:26] <mvo> s/getting/going/
[06:26] <zyga> mvo: argh... 
[06:27] <mvo> zyga: yeah :/
[06:27] <mdz> mvo: if it is about debian apt, I'm sorry but I haven't had time to think about it recently
[06:27] <zyga> I've improved some wording too, you may simply ignore that if you don't want to break too many translations
[06:28] <zyga> s/translations/existing translations/
[06:30] <mvo> mdz: yes, it's about that, sorry that I bug you about it. enrico was asking for a upload that fixes #321799 (it block his debtags work)
[06:30] <mvo> zyga: thanks, that should be ok (I'll look over it again)
[06:32] <mvo> Kamion: install-daily is hanging here, it looks like it's doing a "configure initial-passwd-udeb" ? a bad burn?
[06:33] <wasabi> Hmm. We don't have the jabberd2 aim/irc stuff packaged.
[06:33] <mdz> mvo: feel free to prepare an upload from your branch
[06:35] <mvo> mdz: thanks, I will do that. there are various fixes that piled up. can I do the upload or would you rather like to do the upload yourself (after you merged the branch into apt--main)?
[06:36] <mvo> anyone else tried daily install today?
[06:36] <fabbione> mvo: i am finishing the install right now
[06:36] <pitti> mvo: well, just upgrading from hoary to it
[06:37] <mvo> and you haven't noticed a hang? then I'll retry with a new cd
[06:37] <fabbione> mvo: no.. it's going pretty smooth
[06:37] <fabbione> mdz: for the livecd there was a dbus/hal problem that i believe pitti did fix with an upload...
[06:38] <pitti> yes, I did that today
[06:38] <fabbione> it probably affects install cd too
[06:38] <pitti> yep, it does
[06:38] <fabbione> didn't get there yet
[06:38] <mdz> pitti: which version(s) do we need?
[06:38] <pitti> mdz: dbus 0.36.2-0ubuntu2 had the fix, -0ubuntu1 broke it
[06:38] <pitti> s/had/has/
[06:39] <pitti> mdz: 0ubuntu1 missed the DEBHELPER token, so it simply didn't start
[06:41] <mdz> pitti: building new livefs images and install CDs
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think about having installerstage2progress use usplash?
[06:50] <zyga> mvo: POTFILES.in does not contain most of the .glade files, is this intentional?
[06:51] <mvo> zyga: probably not
[06:51] <zyga> mvo: fixed
[06:51] <mvo> zyga: thanks
[06:54] <zyga> mvo: "Please enter the root password to start the package manager", doesn't ubuntu use sudo and root is paswordless?
[06:58] <hughsie> anyone with an ibm, asus or panasonic laptop?
[06:59] <bddebian> I have a StinkPad
[06:59] <hughsie> if you have ibm, can you do a "cat /proc/acpi/ibm/brightness" pls
[06:59] <pef> can someone explains me why DMA is not enabled by default on drives ? (hdd and optical drives)
[06:59] <hughsie> i'm writing the lcd support for hal
[07:00] <mvo> zyga: yes, that should be "your password"
[07:00] <hughsie> Robot101: what make is a X40?
[07:00] <Robot101> hughsie: IBM
[07:00] <bddebian> hughsie: I don't have an ibm dir under acpi
[07:01] <hughsie> modprobe acpi_ibm?
[07:01] <hughsie> modprobe ibm_acpi, sorry
[07:01] <hughsie> Robot101: what about you?
[07:01] <bddebian> Nope, neither
[07:03] <Robot101> hughsie: sorry, had to unsleep and hook it up to charge
[07:03] <Robot101> robot101@theta:~$ ls /proc/acpi/ibm
[07:03] <Robot101> bay  bluetooth  dock  driver  hotkey  light  video
[07:03] <hughsie> Robot101: cat /proc/acpi/ibm/* pls
[07:04] <Robot101> http://pastebin.com/351122
[07:06] <doko> third time that firefox crashes today on amd64 ...
[07:06] <hughsie> Robot101: obv. ubuntu doesn't switch on the experimenatal stuff
[07:06] <Robot101> hughsie: actually this is a sarge box, but I've got ubuntu's kernel and acpi-support
[07:07] <hughsie> can you put experimental=1 in your modprobe command and reload ibm_acpi
[07:07] <Robot101> (which means my hald crashes at bootup for no apparent reason, but I can't upgrade it because of dbus)
[07:09] <Diziet> keybuk: this status-fd conffile prompt doesn't carry all of the information that the dpkg-issued prompt does.
[07:09] <Keybuk> that's true
[07:09] <Keybuk> it carries enough for what mvo wanted it for though, I guess
[07:10] <Diziet> Do you know what that was ?
[07:10] <Robot101> hughsie: http://pastebin.com/351126
[07:10] <Keybuk> it's used to hide dpkg output during the installer and synaptic
[07:10] <Diziet> It's not good enough to ask the user the question.
[07:10] <zyga> mvo: patch away
[07:10] <Diziet> Oh, just for answering automatically ?
[07:10] <Keybuk> I think they use it to switch back to the dpkg console
[07:10] <Keybuk> more as a "dpkg needs to ask something" than anything else
[07:10] <Diziet> Ah, right.
[07:11] <Diziet> I see it doesn't suppress the dpkg-generated messages.
[07:11] <Keybuk> yeah
[07:11] <mvo> Keybuk, Diziet: it should carry enough information. I hide the dpkg prompt and display a gtk dialog
[07:11] <Keybuk> it's just so you can hide the usual scroll
[07:11] <Keybuk> oh, there you go, he does something else
[07:11] <hughsie> Robot101: thanks, it would apear your laptop doesn;t support brightness!
[07:11] <hughsie> Robot101: what kernel you running?
[07:11] <mvo> it does not supress because a terminal (vte) is still runing (because postinst script do nasty things sometimes that require a terminal)
[07:12] <mvo> Diziet: what information is missing?
[07:12] <Robot101> hughsie: it's definitely in the ibm_acpi 0.8 module?
[07:12] <Robot101> hughsie: 2.6.12-6-686
[07:12] <hughsie> Robot101: definatly. I'll ask davidz as I *know* he got this to work.
[07:12] <hughsie> thanks for your help tho
[07:13] <mvo> (it's very likely that I overlooked something, I haven't dived deep into dpkg
[07:13] <Kamion> mvo: I've never seen that myself, although I haven't tried today's
[07:13] <Diziet> Well, if you wanted to be able to automatically answer the question, it should contain the `what' information, ie cfof_... flags.
[07:13] <Kamion> mdz: I doubt that would be sufficient for anything more than the default case
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: i.e. as soon as, say, xserver-xorg needed to ask a question, I'd have to drop back to debconf anyway, and I don't really want to deal with *any* extra complexity there
[07:14] <mvo> Kamion: looks like a bad burn, the second run I'm workig fine so far
[07:14] <Kamion> mvo: ah good, thanks
[07:14] <Diziet> I've just had a horrid thought.  How can dpkg tell the difference between `this conffile is removed from the package and its conffiles and so the user should be asked whether to remove it' and `this conffile is now going to be handled by the maintainer scripts and dpkg should leave the existing one in place'.
[07:14] <Robot101> hughsie: np, feel free to ping if you want anything else tested... or happen to know why http://pastebin.com/351131 happens :D
[07:15] <Robot101> hughsie: (when hald starts, it makes it crash... 0.4.7-3sarge1 though, but dbus foo makes it hard to upgrade)
[07:16] <hughsie> Robot101: okay, will do. and your trace... are you running a tainted kernel?
[07:16] <Robot101> nope
[07:16] <hughsie> hmm. hald shouldn;t do that...
[07:17] <Robot101> it is hella old and my kernel is 0-day breezy crack, but I'd like to know the path of least resistance to having sarge but have all my hardware work too :)
[07:17] <zyga> mvo: will you apply the patch before midnight?
[07:18] <hughsie> Robot101: you can't use the ubuntu dbus?
[07:18] <mvo> zyga: yes
[07:18] <mdz> Kamion: good point
[07:18] <Robot101> hughsie: 0.3x is incompatible with 0.2x, it would mean pulling essentially the whole of breezy
[07:19] <Robot101> hughsie: and I have a seperate partition for that, and it's utterly broken :P
[07:19] <hughsie> Robot101: I thought that would be the case.
[07:20] <mvo> Diziet: I don't understand why I would want to automatically answer it? isn't that the job of dpkg? The status is only send if dpkg prompts at the terminal and then the submitted information is enough, no?
[07:21] <Diziet> I naively assumed that the status-fd stuff was supposed to let you completely bury dpkg :-).
[07:21] <mvo> Kamion: daily install fine so far except the cdrom prompting because "mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb" is not copied by archive-copier
[07:21] <mvo> Diziet: oh, right :) unfortunatly *cough* not
[07:22] <Robot101> mjg59: I realised that having sarge and breezy share the same swap partition doesn't break swsusp provided I have the same kernel on both. the initrd of whichever boots first will just clobber the running system with the suspended one... theoretically
[07:22] <Robot101> mjg59: so I'll resume sarge and be in breezy, or vice versa :D
[07:23] <Kamion> mvo: right, I'm working on that right now
[07:23] <mvo> Kamion: sure, it was just FYI
[07:26] <jbailey> Robot101: Resumng wit hthe wrong partition is bad fu, in general.
[07:27] <jbailey> Nothing good can come of it.
[07:27] <Robot101> oh I know :)
[07:27] <pef> bye !
[07:34] <Diziet> keybuk: see my latest mail.
[07:34] <fabbione> dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.diff'
[07:34] <fabbione> hmm
[07:35] <pitti> fabbione: where did the .gz go?
[07:35] <fabbione> pitti: that's what i am trying to undestand
[07:35] <fabbione> it's the build log of kio-locate on sparc
[07:35] <Keybuk> fabbione: update dpkg to 11
[07:35] <fabbione> that seems to be ok on other arches..
[07:35] <Keybuk> or ubuntu2
[07:35] <Keybuk> depending on whether it's a Debian or Ubuntu buildd
[07:36] <fabbione> Keybuk: ah ok.. thanks
[07:36] <fabbione> it's a mix..
[07:36] <Keybuk> and send a small tac-nuke to bod
[07:36] <fabbione> i will just install one :)
[07:36] <Keybuk> pitti: it can be either diff.gz or diff.bz2
[07:37] <fabbione> mehhhhh
[07:38] <fabbione> this update would cost me a lot...
[07:38] <fabbione> given that apt-ftparchive goes in bus error with new glibc
[07:41] <Kamion> fabbione: changelog suggests that new apt-listchanges works around that?
[07:43] <fabbione> Kamion: oh.. i didn't check in a long while.. 
[07:43] <fabbione> thanks for noticing :)
[07:43] <mvo> fabbione: apt-listchanges segfaults for you?
[07:45] <fabbione> mvo: apt-ftparchive
[07:45] <fabbione> well we will see in not too long from now :)
[07:46] <fabbione> i an upgrading the box
[07:46] <fabbione> am even
[07:47] <mdz> Kamion: another cron.daily?
[07:47] <mdz> Kamion: I had just finished building a set
[07:47] <mdz> Kamion: we need a live build when you're finished
[07:48] <mjg59> Robot101: True
[07:49] <mvo> fabbione: if it still segfaults, could you please send me a backtrace?
[07:49] <Kamion> mdz: testing fixes for install CD breakage
[07:49] <Robot101> mjg59: unless I boot a new kernel by mistake, when it will ignore the swsusp image, and swapon and nuke it just after it craps up the journalling filesystem... so either way it /should/ work
[07:50] <mdz> Kamion: how do you feel about a colony tomorrow?
[07:50] <Kamion> mdz: not enough data yet
[07:50] <Kamion> may be able to answer you later tonight
[07:50] <fabbione> mvo: sure..
[07:51] <fabbione> if still segafault the roof of your house will be bombed with lightnings
[07:51] <fabbione> mvo: because that will kill my local cache :)
[07:52] <mvo> *cough*
[07:52] <mdz> Kamion: I was feeling pretty good about it mondayish
[07:52] <mdz> let me know
[07:53] <Kamion> mdz: I'm out of your way now; go ahead and cron.daily-live
[07:53] <mdz> Kamion: launched, thanks
[07:54] <Kamion> mdz: the language-support-* copying mess is release-critical, I think; lots of bugs about that
[07:55] <hunger> Hey, X came up without me having to run udevstart to generate /dev/input/mice! Thanks for working on that!
[07:57] <hunger> Damn... you are busy! I updated less than 4h ago and already there are abaut 40MiB new packages!
[07:58] <pitti> hunger: nice that the new udev works :-)
[07:59] <xhaker> today is the last day of summer of code isn't it?
[08:00] <mdz> Kamion: will you still be around a bit later?  we should review blockers for preview
[08:02] <Kamion> mdz: I'll be out for the next hour or so returning hired glasses from the wedding reception, and then making dinner for the child; but I'll be back after that
[08:03] <hunger> Is xdm broken or did I break my config again? It fails in postinst with status 1.
[08:03] <mdz> Kamion: ok, ping me if you're available, otherwise, we'll talk in your morning
[08:04] <fabbione> mvo: still bus error :/
[08:05] <Kamion> hunger: bug #14412
[08:06] <fabbione> mvo: what can i do to help debugging?
[08:07] <mvo> fabbione: a backtrace would be good 
[08:07] <hunger> Could someone please add an if [ -d /dev/hda ] ; then ... fi around the hdparm stuff in /etc/init.d/acpi-support?
[08:08] <hunger> My laptop has no hda and the script keeps nagging about that.
[08:08] <ivoks> hi
[08:10] <mjg59> hunger: There's only one reference to hda in acpi-support, and it won't be triggered unless you've altered your configuration
[08:11] <mjg59> Try upgrading
[08:12] <hunger> mjg59: acpi-support runs hdparm twice.
[08:14] <mjg59> hunger: Where?
[08:14] <hunger> mjg59: In fact two in start and one in stop...
[08:14] <mjg59> hunger: No it doesn't
[08:15] <hunger> mjg59: It does here... let me check where that file comes from...
[08:15] <mjg59> hunger: Which file?
[08:16] <hunger> mjg59: /etc/init.d/acpi-support lines 22,23 and 34.
[08:17] <hunger> mjg59: Just purged and reinstalled... it is there.
[08:17] <mjg59> hunger: My apologies, you're entirely right
[08:17] <mjg59> hunger: Please file a bug, I'll fix that
[08:17] <hunger> mjg59: Thanks!
[08:22] <hunger> mjg59: #14431
[08:27] <mjg59> hunger: Thanks!
[08:28] <Robot101> mjg59: did you fix the RTC thing? :P
[08:29] <mjg59> Robot101: Not yet
[08:29] <Robot101> mjg59: can you set the RTC to wake you from sleep after a fixed period of time?
[08:30] <mjg59> Robot101: Yes
[08:30] <mjg59> See /proc/acpi/alarm
[08:30] <Robot101> mjg59: or when the battery gets down to a particular level? :)
[08:30] <mjg59> No
[08:30] <Robot101> aww
[08:30] <mjg59> That's hardware dependent
[08:30] <mjg59> Most modern machines seem to resume shortly before the abttery runs out
[08:30] <elmo> eh, am I being particulary stupid or something; a web browser should respect /etc/hosts right?
[08:31] <hunger> elmo: depends on your resolver config IIRC.
[08:31] <Robot101> elmo: modulo proxy settings...?
[08:31] <fabbione> elmo: nsswitch.conf? or whatever is called?
[08:31] <mjg59> elmo: Mozilla certainly used to have its own resolver
[08:32] <fabbione> night everybody
[08:32] <fabbione> cya tomorrow
[08:33] <sabdfl> night fabbione
[08:34] <ivoks> fabbione: bye
[08:34] <pitti> cu fabbione 
[08:40] <slomo> hi... can someone with main upload rights upload this for me? fixes FTBFS and is a really small change... http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/mono_1.1.8.2-1ubuntu4.debdiff
[08:41] <Diablo-D3> hey all
[08:42] <pitti> tseng: here to help slomo?
[08:42] <Diablo-D3> No one seen daniels lately?
[08:42] <Diablo-D3> he asked me to "output of DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=yes sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg, please."
[08:42] <pitti> nope, he is certainly deep asleep
[08:42] <tseng> pitti: sure
[08:42] <tseng> pitti: whats up?
[08:42] <Diablo-D3> how would one do that and still be able to control debconf?
[08:42] <pitti> tseng: see slomo above
[08:42] <slomo> pitti: tseng is busy atm ;) otherwise he would've uploaded it already
[08:43] <pitti> tseng: ah, ok
[08:43] <tseng> ah i told him i was just leaving
[08:43] <Diziet> I should stop and log off, really.
[08:43] <Diziet> Then I can have dinner.
[08:43] <pitti> slomo: ok, I can do that
[08:43] <slomo> pitti: thanks :)
[08:43] <Diablo-D3> anyone?
[08:43] <tseng> thanks pitti, later all
[08:45] <Diziet> Goodnight everyone.
[08:45] <pitti> night Di
[08:45] <pitti> night Diziet 
[08:45] <Diablo-D3> beuler?
[08:46] <pitti> slomo: uploaded
[08:47] <slomo> pitti: thanks
[09:30] <sivang> does anybody esle try to msg nicksrv without success?
[09:31] <sivang> pitti: do you have any specific g-c-m stuff you'd like me to have a look at, or should I just browse the ones assigned to you?
[09:41] <sladen> Robot101: grep . /proc/acpi/ibm/*   is good
[09:41] <sladen> hughsie: on ThinkPad's the brightness is hardware controlled and pass though 3 bits in the /dev/nvram
[09:46] <hughsie> sladen: davidz has a /proc/acpi/ibm/brightness file
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> you know
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> openbox rocks
[09:46] <hughsie> sladen: perhaps a newer ibm_acpi?
[09:52] <CarlFK> breezy: "cannot touch `x': Read-only file system" but mount shows /dev/sda1 on /media/sda1 type ntfs (rw)
[09:52] <CarlFK> shouldn't mount show (ro) ?
[09:53] <sladen> CarlFK: good point
[09:54] <CarlFK> but i did mount it with the mount command, so I am not sure what could be done about it
[09:58] <Robot101> jdub: ping
[09:58] <Robot101> jdub: what's the deal with mdnsresponder in sid?
[10:05] <elmo> christ, bugzilla searching is teh useless
[10:06] <sivang> elmo: you have hard time finding stuff by package? I also get annoyed by that
[10:06] <sivang> elmo: it seems to ignomre my serach phrase
[10:07] <slomo> mdz: will we get something done with ffmpeg for breezy? seems like our version is also the cause for mplayer crashing on ac3 audio... but i'm not entirely sure yet
[10:08] <mdz> slomo: if kino is changed not to use it, it will fall out of main naturally
[10:08] <mdz> assuming nothing else depends on it
[10:08] <mdz> I'm happy to move it if kino is changed, but I don't know what the effect on kino would be
[10:09] <pitti> mdz: are you opposed to adding postgresql-pl{perl,python} to the seeds? These packages were split out of the main server package in breezy
[10:10] <slomo> mdz: the only effect on kino would be possible slower dv decoding on non-x86 architectures (i don't know if this is still valid... that was 2003 iirc). it would loose no features
[10:10] <mdz> pitti: no
[10:10] <mdz> slomo: ok
[10:10] <pitti> mdz: ok, thanks
[10:10] <mdz> pitti: could you review slomo's patch and upload it if you agree?
[10:11] <pitti> mdz: sure
[10:11] <pitti> slomo: which patch?
[10:11] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[10:11] <mdz> pitti: forwarding it to you now
[10:11] <slomo> pitti: http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/kino_0.75-7ubuntu1.debdiff
[10:12] <slomo> mdz: will i get preview freeze exception for changing ffmpeg and recompile everything against the new one?
[10:12] <mdz> slomo: since nothing in main is affected, the preview freeze doesn't apply
[10:12] <sivang> pitti: I can handle #11282 unless we want it handled upstream, pretty trivial i guess
[10:13] <slomo> mdz: oh, i thought preview freeze applies also to universe... thanks for clarifying this :)
[10:13] <mdz> slomo: MOTU are free to set their own schedule for universe; if there is a policy in place then it comes from MOTU and not from me
[10:14] <pitti> sivang: sure, that's easy; just send the patch upstream as well :-)
[10:14] <slomo> mdz: ok, i'll talk to ogra about that
[10:18] <sivang> pitti: funny, there is a lot of space down the dialog , I wonder how no one thought aobut using it before L:)
[10:21] <elmo> did these ttf fonts always take so long to run their postinsts?
[10:21] <Mithrandir> elmo: we have a fair amount more of them now, I think.
[10:22] <pitti> slomo: ok, so kino works as before without libavcodec?
[10:24] <slomo> pitti: i didn't test it (i have no dv encoded stuff lying around) :( but this is from kino's configure: "--with-avcodec       Use FFMPEG libavcodec for DV video decoding instead of libdv."
[10:24] <pitti> slomo: ok, I just read the mail you sent to Matt; the reasons sound sane
[10:25] <pitti> slomo: and thanks for eliminating static libraries! :)
[10:26] <slomo> pitti: np :) so you will upload this?
[10:27] <pitti> slomo: yes, doing now
[10:27] <slomo> pitti: thanks :)
[10:27] <pitti> slomo: *removing* packages from main is something I always like to do :-) It happens seldom enough
[10:28] <elmo> mjg59: ?
[10:28] <slomo> mdz: and please care that ffmpeg gets into multiverse, not universe ;) otherwise we won't be able to use marillat's package and can't support aac through faad2 for example
[10:29] <pitti> slomo: if ffmpeg is not actually used any more anyway, why should we care?
[10:29] <pitti> slomo: or can it be used dynamically?
[10:29] <mdz> slomo: I will
[10:29] <slomo> pitti: it is used by some multiverse stuff (transcode, mplayer, smilutils, ....)
[10:32] <hunger> Is NM updated again? j^ did lots of work on it from what I heared.
[10:32] <slomo> hunger: afaik it only waits for someone to upload it ;)
[10:33] <pitti> slomo: Accepted kino 0.75-7ubuntu1 (source)
[10:34] <slomo> pitti: :)
[10:37] <slomo> elmo: can you remove the old mplayer binaries from the archive for breezy? mplayer-custom, mplayer-amd64, mplayer-686, mencoder-k7, mencoder-custom, mencoder-amd64
[10:37] <mdz> pitti: new install and live CDs are now up with dbus 0.36.2-0ubuntu2
[10:49] <sivang> night all
[11:06] <dieman> yay, came back to one of my old bugs and fixed it. :)