=== macgyver2 [n=eric@unaffiliated/macgyver2] has joined #edubuntu === highvolt1ge [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #edubuntu === fersfeir [n=fernando@201.250.6.183] has joined #edubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #edubuntu === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-69-224-19-59.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #edubuntu === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.121.20.2] has joined #edubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #edubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #edubuntu [08:38] morning all === guim [n=glederer@104.241-200-80.adsl-fix.skynet.be] has joined #edubuntu [10:05] where the og? [10:06] hey [10:06] don't worry, he hasn't abandoned you yet [10:07] :) === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === pere_gone is now known as pere === ogra [n=ogra@p5089CE5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [11:28] grmblfjx === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #edubuntu [11:30] any better? [11:32] not really... [11:32] the line is stable, but the change they made keeps my router crashing now... [11:33] that sucks [11:33] yup [11:34] i'm sure it will sort eventually... but that will be the time i'm not in urgent need of the line... [11:34] do you feel the pressure lately? [11:35] sure... [11:35] every milestone in the schedule generates pressure :) [11:35] thats the usecase for milestones ;) [11:36] well yes i guess everyone who is actively involved is pressured now [11:36] yup === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089F180.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.60.217.240] has joined #edubuntu [11:43] ogra: hello [11:44] hey jane_ === JaneW gets rid of beard ;) [11:44] ewwww [11:44] hey I think I just found Luis Guillermo Sobalvarro [11:44] yay [11:45] who is he? artwork? === JaneW e-mails [11:45] yes [11:45] yep === jsgotangco submits artwork to JaneW under a different name then hides [11:46] heh [11:48] jsgotangco: don;t make my life ahrder than it already is [11:48] http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/edubuntu.png [11:48] jsgotangco: it won;t be used if we don;t know who you are... but if your pseudonym agrees to the licensing terms - that's fine ;) [11:49] thats the current wallpaper we have in edubuntu-artwork... but i didnt hear back from elmo yet about the licensing stuff :( [11:49] ogra: I found him on a KDE discussion group ;) [11:49] yeah [11:49] private eye JaneW :) [11:49] ogra: plain - but nice [11:50] ogra: is it your oen original work? [11:50] i said i wouldnt invest more then 10min :) [11:50] own [11:50] yup [11:50] cool [11:50] can we use it? [11:50] under the CC GNU GPL license terms? ;) [11:50] its a standard gimp filter... and a drop shadow for the logo... took a bit less then 10min [11:50] (I am still not certain that this license actually covers images) [11:51] i herby grant permission to use it under the terms of any free license you can imagine [11:51] and i confirm its my own work, not based on any other work except the logo :) [11:52] ok, now we have it in the irclogs ;) [11:52] what size should wall papers be? 1024 * 768(?) ? [11:52] 1600x1200 for normal screens and a version 1600x1000 for widescreens would be good [11:53] scaling up from 1024x786 can get ugly... scaling down looks better [11:54] ogra: speaking of which do we have to trademark the logo> [11:54] ? [11:54] (it doesnt really matter for a wallpaper like i did... but if you have details they might look blurry) [11:54] JaneW, i think thats a silbs job (and question) [11:54] ah 786 [11:54] hence ping in #c ;) [11:54] ah, didnt notice :) [12:01] done [12:11] ogra: dd you produce the wall appers at the bottom of http://www.edubuntu.org/Preview_Wallpaper_Examples? === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #edubuntu [12:12] JaneW, nope... highvoltage's work :) [12:26] see you guys i dont feel that well [12:27] ciao jsgotangco [12:30] hi there. i think i heard my name. [12:32] oh yes, those i did. they were just to encourage other people to put something together. [12:41] ok Steve Torrefranca has given us full use of his wall papers, and the one done by his daughter :) [12:42] ogra: do you need to see the proof or can I file it? [12:42] JaneW, mail it to elmo ? [12:42] the rocking horse is from a photo he took himself :). the girl etc were hand drwn by him... [12:42] yay [12:46] he is in taiwan atm, but said he'll make more for us once he is home [12:46] lunch time... === JaneW just tried to use gimp... I feel so inadequate now... [12:48] I just managed to get the hang of photoshop... [12:49] what are you attempting? [12:50] just playing, trying to make a wall paper - I was also trying to put one of sebastein's badgers in it - then I was going to ask him if we could do something like that, or if he would fix/improve it... [12:51] I like the Breezy nerd pic...http://sloss.free.fr/breezy/BB_nerd.png [12:51] He would probably do a wallpaper in either Illustrator or Inkscape [12:52] Badger is SVG already === JaneW tend to use photos as wallpapers.... [01:05] ah, well [01:06] you'd just have to render Badger in different sizes :) [01:06] (for different wallpaper sizes) [01:10] i.e. through the export function in inkscape ;) [01:11] or import function in GIMP :P [01:12] :) [01:14] is it possible to turn a raster image into a vector image somehow (even if you loose some detail)? [01:14] potrace :) [01:15] there are other tools as well === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #edubuntu [02:24] highvoltage: ping [02:25] JaneW: pong [02:26] JaneW: nice wiki changes [02:27] highvoltage: thanks :) [02:27] highvoltage: still wiaitng for elom so I can get meaningful fortunecookies up... [02:31] ah i see. it's an immutable page. i wonder why. [02:46] yup *shrug* [02:46] I tried making a FortunCookies2 page and pointing the macro at that, but it didn't work... [02:46] brb (kids-school) === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #edubuntu === JessicaX^ [n=Admin@86.112.134.35] has joined #edubuntu [03:33] Hurray! [03:34] Hello there ;0 [03:34] I'm here to help :) [03:36] highvoltage: /ogra: do we have the latest gnome icons? Olafur Arason sent them to me and i don;t know what to do with them... [03:39] Sorry, is edubuntu using gnome? [03:40] yes [03:40] Ah [03:40] It's just, i've migrated schools before.. most of them wanted KDE because it's more windows-like [03:43] Plus, the applications are more friendly to children.. i think i had something somewhere about the effect phsychologically of children with monochrome colours as opposed to colour === ogra [n=ogra@pD9FAB391.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:44] It's all in the mind, asy they say :) [03:45] Anyways, i'll come back soon, going for a cappuchino with my muim [03:45] mum* [03:45] =) === JessicaX^ [n=Admin@86.112.134.35] has left #edubuntu [] [03:47] ack too late... [03:47] highvoltage: /ogra: do we have the latest gnome icons? Olafur Arason sent them to me and i don;t know what to do with them... [03:49] JaneW: afaik, we'll be using the gartoon gnome icon theme in edubuntu, although, it doesn't look like the current version uses it. === ogra [n=ogra@pD9FAB641.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu === sexcopter8000m [n=james@82-34-47-19.cable.ubr01.chel.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #edubuntu === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === Rondom [n=andreas@A49f8.a.pppool.de] has joined #edubuntu === pere is now known as pere_gone === ogra [n=ogra@pD9FAB412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [06:22] ogra: how is the CD doing these days? [06:22] im itching to start testing :) [06:23] tomorrows could be good... i cant test currently, i'm online via very unstable isdn ... [06:23] ok === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #edubuntu [06:31] daily iso is not very nice [06:31] not at the moment [06:32] its a pain [06:33] hehe [06:34] yesterdays was quite ok... if you follow the notes [06:37] hmmm notes [06:37] /topic ? [06:38] i don't see any relevant notes, :o [06:38] ...to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting ... [06:38] it started X automaticly btw unlike in the notes [06:38] yup, that was fixed since === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.37.110.197] has joined #edubuntu === P3L|C4N0 o/ Hi people === P3L|C4N0 :) === JessicaX^ [n=Admin@86.112.134.35] has joined #edubuntu [07:00] Hey again === OChaos [n=Organize@user130x253.esgvrop.k12.ca.us] has joined #edubuntu [07:09] I have the artcile about Children and colors, etc === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #edubuntu [07:27] Heya === danjules [n=dan@24.215.14.137] has joined #edubuntu [07:36] children and colors? [07:36] Yes [07:36] Well, as you know, Gnome isn't as "colourful" as KDE [07:36] sounds very schteiner to me :) [07:37] link to the article? [07:37] GNOME can indeed be colorful, and KDE looks horrid in general to me, but anyway :P [07:38] magnum [07:38] although I do believe it's important to have the computer as a tool and rather have a healthy monitor etc. than having the right colors, they can paint the room instead :) [07:38] I'm serious, if you're looking into educational, the OS isn't the only thing [07:38] Well, where's this article then?:) [07:38] Disability Requirements, etc have to be taken into consideration [07:42] You have the high-contrast themes and things like that [07:42] but I didnt think that far, gnome in general has good accessibility [07:43] Yeah, but [07:43] magnum, i worked with a friend migrating Windows Server's and school system to Linux [07:43] mag_non_ [07:43] Almost all the schools decided on KDE, because it seems to have the clearest graphics, and seems it would be easier for children to identify, because at young ages, they have a tendancy to be concerned with aesthetics, and not the inner workings of it [07:43] :P [07:44] But, if you dont want to listen, i wont bother talking [07:45] I want to listen.... as I'll be giving a sales pitch to my superintendent later next week... =) [07:45] Yes, I am listening [07:45] Good, because you'll want to listen [07:46] I did it for money to live, and i know for a fact, it seemed too "monochrome" out of the box for most headmasters [07:46] but you can tab-complete my nick properly, at least it gives me a highlight so I can see you address me [07:46] They liked KDE, mainly because out of the icons and semanticity [07:47] I understand the project is probably one of the first of it's kind, but still, start as you mean to go on [07:47] Saying to a school "Yeah, but this is open source, not windows" wont sell it at all [07:47] Neither will "Well, i like it" [07:48] i don't see the point of this discussion since both have themes [07:48] just FYI, skolelinux used KDE and it looked completely horrid in my opinion [07:48] it's a matter of configuration [07:48] yes, like danjules says [07:48] Both "themes" ? [07:48] saying "We can make this look exactly how you wish" sells. [07:48] Yes, but it's what they want [07:48] If they dont like it, they wont have it [07:48] saying "It's preconfigured for disabled students out of the box" sells too [07:49] open source wont sell it to them [07:49] cheaper price will [07:49] open source = cheaper TCO in most circumstances [07:49] JessicaX^: it will and it is [07:49] Actually I have some customers who specifically wanted open source [07:49] Yeah, i know [07:49] I'm sorry, but i've seen similar projects, i'm just making sure you know [07:50] I thought i'd give some advice, seen as i've actually done it [07:50] you talked about an article [07:50] where is the article? [07:51] it's more important to see what is wrong with GNOME and improve it, than look to KDE - themeing is possible [07:51] I'm just saying [07:51] JessicaX^: you have a valid point: kde is more colourful and probley does look better to childere [07:51] If so, i'd like to make a KDE branch-off if you're not considering it [07:51] n [07:51] danjules: not my experience :/ [07:51] I want to help, of course, i like projects that dive into such areas [07:51] just making sure you've got your goggles on :) [07:51] but gnome, like kde, can be configured in anyway the user wishes [07:52] JessicaX^: Should not be hard to merge edubuntu with kubuntu [07:52] feel free :P [07:52] Yes, but as a rule of thumb, i've found KDE is usually easier to configure than gnome [07:52] I won't do it, KDE is ech. [07:52] JessicaX^: last time you used gnome? [07:52] if colors are the only argument to switch, its invalid [07:53] danjules [07:53] 3 seconds ago [07:53] ;) [07:53] again [07:53] _you mentioned an article_ [07:53] Yes, i'm looking for it! [07:53] Relax [07:54] ok [07:54] I'm not trying to undermine anything, dont get so stressed [07:54] let me know then [07:54] instead of ignoring my question :P [07:54] "(18:52:20) magnon: I won't do it, KDE is ech." [07:54] Ech? [07:54] Ecchi? As in gay? [07:54] no, ech = eww [07:54] unlikable [07:54] etc. [07:54] fugly [07:55] Well, thats just your opinion [07:55] of course [07:55] If you want choice, then it's strange to dwell on gnome [07:55] :) [07:55] have I ever said I need choice? [07:55] I made choices long ago, and they support me very well [07:56] Nono [07:56] I dont mean you [07:56] I mean, the target consumer for edubuntu [07:56] I am a target consumer, if you wish [07:56] I like potatoes, but that doesnt mean everyone does [07:56] my customers are edubuntu consumers [07:56] Eh? [07:57] Well, it just seems to me you think i'm speaking jibberish or something [07:57] they are generally non-computer savvy people, and I find they get their way around gnome easier than kde. [07:57] what, that I have customers that use Ubuntu? [07:57] I'm not a Canonical representative :) [07:57] ... so? [07:57] What does that have to do with what i'm talking about? [07:58] Just because you have customers that use Ubuntu, doesnt mean EVERYONE wants to use it [07:58] no, so? [07:58] It's just like me saying, i like anime, so everyone else MUST like anime [07:58] no it's not [07:59] 19:56:45 < JessicaX^> If you want choice, then it's strange to dwell on gnome [07:59] it is like says, all the people i work for like gnome, therefore i give them gnome [07:59] I'm not going to argue, because seems to be since step #1 you didnt want to listen to what i had to say [07:59] ^I just simply rebuted that statement, and said that my customers who have gnome, have had the choice, and they chose gnome [07:59] but I'm having dinner now [08:00] Yes, i know you said that [08:00] I'm just saying, the customers I had preferred KDE [08:00] Afformentioned customers being educational institutions [08:00] i'm out [08:01] I'm just going to shut up [08:01] Just ignore what i said === Marky [n=chatzill@61.247.44.23] has joined #edubuntu === Marky [n=chatzill@61.247.44.23] has left #edubuntu [] [08:55] JessicaX^: Same as my afformentioned customers, they chose gnome, also being educational [08:56] the point is thouhg, that Ubuntu and therefore Edubuntu is a Gnome-centered OS, therefore me supporting Edubuntu would naturally make me choose Gnome [08:56] if I sell Edubuntu services, I wouldn't even give the customer the choice, because simply I cannot work on KDE, it's not my profession [08:56] if you want to create a kedubuntu, go ahead, it's free software [08:56] skolelinux.org is a distribution based on debian using KDE for edu too [08:58] when it comes to the coloring, it's a non-problem, as gnome is fully themeable and so is KDE [08:58] although the definition of "fully" might be arguable [09:25] Heh === bdoin [n=coudoin@blagnac-1-82-228-70-121.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #edubuntu [09:26] I'm not going to bother, you seem to know everything, so [09:26] I'll just idle [09:26] :) === jeang [n=jeang@c2-dbn-86.absamail.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.194.221] has joined #edubuntu [10:16] does anyone know where to send the hardware database file when it doesn't go automatically? [10:16] Hmm? [10:17] when you run the "Ubuntu Device Database" program it generates a hardware database file. [10:17] it is usually sent in automatically [10:17] but sometimes that fails, and you are advised to email it in as an attachment [10:18] but once you click "OK", the address to send it to is gone [10:18] jelkner, it normally lands in my mailbox ;) [10:18] send it to hwdb.ubuntu.com [10:18] oh, can i send it to you then? [10:18] yup [10:18] which do you prefer? [10:18] doesnt matter :) [10:18] ok [10:19] ogra: do you have a few minutes now to talk about a few edubuntu topics? [10:19] sure [10:19] i won't be able to make tomorrow's meeting [10:19] i'm back at school already [10:19] no problem [10:20] i've started in on some documents [10:20] ah, great [10:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeffreyElkner [10:20] one is specifically a list of the hardware we are using [10:21] mdz has been bugging us for it [10:21] moodle with zope ? wow [10:21] i figured using the hardware database id's would be helpful to you... is that true [10:21] moodle and zope on the same server, that's all [10:21] ah, i thought you made moodle run through zope [10:22] no [10:22] it's really about apache virtual domains [10:22] i got both apps to run through our fire wall on port 80 [10:22] currently the hwdb isnt too halpful, its just a very huge collection of files... i wanted to start to work on the database server as soon as edubuntu is in a good state... === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu [10:23] but the data will be in there, yes? [10:23] yup [10:23] when you get around to it, i mean [10:23] and it looks like we will soon be able to access our own database file through the app [10:24] i have about 100 000 files curretnly... that isnt even searchable anymore... it urgently needs SQL [10:24] ah [10:24] will there be an easy way to move the data? [10:24] into an sql db i mean [10:24] thats next on my list... since Kamion is back again i think we'll have sorted the CD this week completely... [10:25] i'll write some scripts... [10:25] cool [10:25] thats not to hard... a good DB design is harder [10:25] good luck with that [10:25] it will be a big help [10:25] and will certainly take more time [10:25] yup... [10:26] i want to submit bugzilla reports [10:26] Did i hear SQL ? [10:26] go ahead, file them :) [10:26] but it would be so much easier if a user could submit a report that was connected to data you already had about the machine [10:27] maybe it could even be a feature of the hardware database app? [10:27] yup, i had a lot of plans for it for breezy already, but then edubuntu came :) so i'm lagging a bit with the hwdb [10:27] ok, let me let that one go then [10:28] next issue... [10:28] update of the DB records was one :) [10:28] what is the current prefered way to install an edubuntu server? [10:29] oh, btw, i was planning a local server too, you could use it in your school if you have a lot different HW ... === Rondom [n=andreas@Bd175.b.pppool.de] has joined #edubuntu [10:29] local server? [10:29] back [10:29] my current preferred way is to use the daily CD and install edubuntu-server manually afterwards, this should change with tomorrows build [10:30] then i'll wait until tomorrow [10:30] a local hwdb SQL server for the support team at your site [10:30] the previous way worked, the server we setup a few weeks back is working fine [10:30] but i want to test the newer install preceedure when it is ready [10:30] i *hope* its all sorted ;) Kamion changed the missing bits [10:31] yup... [10:31] the deadline for me is next monday on the next one [10:31] it was planned from the beginning that you only need the CD if you got no network access [10:31] and before software freedom day on the one after that [10:31] that would be great! [10:32] so i'll check in with you again tomorrow to see if it is ready to be tested [10:32] i'll do my best :) [10:32] i started an apcsc java page on the wiki [10:32] cross your fingers my DSL works again tomorrow :/ [10:32] i see it :) [10:33] i'm going to use the blackdown packages === Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #edubuntu [10:33] 4. search for j2se (or j2re) in synaptic [10:33] 5. install them ;) [10:33] yea, i did that [10:33] very easy [10:33] the only pain is the docs [10:34] that requires you to download a zip file from sun, change it's ownership to root.root, and put it in /tmp [10:34] argh [10:34] are they redistributable by license ? [10:35] nope [10:35] bah [10:35] or at least i don't think so [10:35] hopefully, by next year we can use gcj [10:35] the only real problem for the class is going to be the marine biology case study [10:36] which requires the graphics libraries to work [10:36] i think gcj is already usable... the prob is the missing plugin === LinuxJones [n=willy@blk-222-89-108.eastlink.ca] has joined #edubuntu [10:37] i haven't tested it, but i heard much of swing is not there yet [10:37] ah, yes... swing [10:37] the marine biology case study requires that [10:38] and that is a big component of the curriculum [10:38] and the test [10:38] so no way to avoid it [10:38] anyway, one last question and i need to get back to working on this stuff.. [10:39] i want to make a little how-to on doing recovery using the ubuntu-live cd [10:39] have you played with recovery mode yet ? [10:39] no [10:39] how? [10:40] its undocumented, i think just recovery on the CD bootprompt [10:40] which, live or install? [10:40] s/recovery/"recovery" [10:40] install worked for me recently... === bdoin [n=coudoin@blagnac-1-82-228-70-121.fbx.proxad.net] has left #edubuntu ["Client] [10:41] are you familiar with rescue mode on fedora? [10:41] nope [10:41] it is really nice [10:41] my last time i saw a fedora was when 7.1 was new [10:41] you take the install cd and type "linux rescue" [10:41] or redhat... [10:42] oh, this goes back to redhat 8.0 [10:42] i think its the same with our installer currently... i forgot what i have done exactly === JessicaX^ slaps jelkner with a FOSS bat [10:42] the nicest thing about it is that it searches for linux installs and mounts the device on which it finds one [10:43] then a simple chroot and you are ready to rock [10:43] try ours its quite similar [10:43] so we need to document it then! [10:43] Hey again [10:43] :) [10:44] yeah [10:44] JessicaX: hi! [10:44] i'll try it out [10:44] you just type "recovery" at the boot prompt, like "server"? [10:45] yes, i think thats what i did or "linux recovery" i'm not sure anymore its a while ago [10:46] i'll try both, and let you know if it works [10:46] will edubuntu be discussed in montreal? [10:46] it will complain at the wrong one :) [10:47] i think so [10:47] Hello [10:47] :O [10:47] i was to ask about that tomorrow [10:48] JessicaX: why did you slap me with a FOSS bat? [10:48] i would like to go, but i'll need to begin making plans soon [10:49] i guess Jane is the one to ask about that, but she just timed out :) [10:50] I love FOSS bats [10:50] =/ [10:50] JessicaX: and i like being hit with them! === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu [10:51] ok, time to get back to installing, testing, and documenting [10:51] jelkner, i'll ask her about it tomorrow... i dont know any official plans... but since the ltsp crew is there too we should meet up, even if the focus for breezy+1 isnt on ltsp anymore [10:51] Then we're set? [10:51] what do you mean, this is only the begining? [10:51] JessicaX: absolutely! [10:52] target for this release was only one classroom [10:52] target for the next is the whole school... [10:52]