[12:04] <Kamion> mdz: yo
[12:05] <mdz> Kamion: hi
[12:06] <ajmitch> morning
[12:09] <Kamion> mdz: do you have a preliminary list of preview blockers? I'm way, way behind on the bug list
[12:13] <mdz> Kamion: get usplash enabled by default, fix the virtual console switching problems on the live cd, and fix the language-support-* problem
[12:16] <mdz> Kamion: I'm behind on installer bugs, too, but the basics were working fine as of Colony 3
[12:22] <mdz> Kamion: any clear blockers on your end?
[12:23] <Kamion> I've just uploaded archive-copier 0.3.0, which should fix the language-support-* in conjunction with germinate and cdimage changes I made earlier today; but the .0 reflects a lack of testing in the context of the installer
[12:24] <Kamion> mdz: there are various bugs about magic-resize causing parted_server to crash or otherwise falling over, which concern me quite a bit
[12:26] <mdz> Kamion: I think a Colony this week would be a good idea as preparation for preview
[12:26] <Kamion> agreed
[12:26] <Kamion> I'll see what I can do tomorrow
[12:26] <mdz> current i386 live CD is working on my laptop, modulo the console switching bugs
[12:27] <mdz> which is encouraging in the face of allthe apparent X autodetection regressions
[12:40] <mdz> mjg59: around?
[12:40] <mjg59> mdz: Hi
[12:40] <mdz> mjg59: so I dug a bit into this VT switching problem
[12:40] <mdz> and it's clearly impossible that this is happening
[12:40] <Kamion> well, the right way to install usplash by default on first boot, if you don't want it as part of minimal, is probably to create a usplash-udeb that installs it in a base-installer hook
[12:41] <Kamion> and make that priority standard
[12:41] <mdz> X only does VT_WAITACTIVE _immediately_ (next statement) after VT_ACTIVATE
[12:41] <Kamion> I don't know if that's packaging overkill though
[12:41] <mdz> the race should be incredibly small
[12:41] <mjg59> mdz: Nngh
[12:41] <mjg59> mdz: But it doesn't seem to happen off hard drive
[12:41] <mdz> mjg59: right
[12:41] <mdz> and it doesn't happen if we QUIT usplash
[12:41] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:42] <mdz> of course, on the hard drive, X starts first
[12:42] <mdz> while on the live CD, usplash seems to timeout first
[12:42] <mjg59> Mm.
[12:42] <mjg59> Can you hack usplash, extend the timeout and see how it behaves?
[12:42] <mdz> I wonder if I could get it to happen on the hadr rdive
[12:42] <mdz> hard drive
[12:42] <mdz> maybe decrease the usplash timeout to <= X startup time
[12:42] <mdz> or that
[12:43] <mdz> easier to mess around on the hard drive than on the live cd
[12:43] <mjg59> Do you want me to add support for changing the timeout?
[12:43] <mjg59> It'd probably make it easier to test
[12:43] <mdz> a command line parameter would be quite handy
[12:43] <mjg59> I can give you either a command line parameter or a usplash_write command
[12:43] <mdz> you haven't seen this happen yet, have you?
[12:43] <mjg59> Nope
[12:44] <mdz> if you could download a live CD and try it, I'd be interested to know a) that it's not just me, and b) if seeing it gives you any ideas
[12:44] <mjg59> Hm. No blank CDs, I'm afraid.
[12:44] <mjg59> (Need to rectify that at some point)
[12:44] <mdz> tricky
[12:44] <Nafallo> mjg59: that's what CD-RWs are for indeed :-)
[12:45] <CarlFK> hows the pxe boot live CD coming?
[12:46] <CarlFK> i vaugly remember a few months ago someone having some interest in it, and sayind "shouldn't be to hard"
[12:46] <mdz> CarlFK: it's still perfectly workable in concept but nobody has written the code
[12:46] <mdz> and it's certainly not a priority for me
[12:46] <CarlFK> heh - like many thiungs. 
[12:46] <CarlFK> understood
[12:47] <mdz> would be handy to have xserver-xorg-dbg on the live CD so I could trace this out
[12:47] <CarlFK> doesn't apt-get work?
[12:48] <mdz> it's too late by that point
[12:48] <CarlFK> ah.
[12:48] <mdz> I need it when usplash is still running
[12:48] <mdz> though maybe I could simulate it by starting usplash again later
[12:48] <mdz> in fact I should try that in the non-livecd environment right now
[12:48] <Kamion> you could write a post.d script to apt-get install it, I'd've thought
[12:49] <mdz> Kamion: that's true too
[12:51] <mdz>         Identifier      "ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon Mobility 9000 (M7 LW)"
[12:51] <mdz>         Driver          "cirrus_laguna"
[12:51] <tseng> a clever pairing, at least
[12:52] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:55] <mdz> I can't get this to happen outside of the live CD at all
[12:56] <mjg59> Hrm.
[12:56] <mdz> mjg59: QUIT should have the same effect as the timeout, right?
[12:56] <mjg59> mdz: I think so. Let me check.
[12:56] <tseng> mjg59: hibernate is still broken across the board, correct?
[12:56] <mdz> looks like it
[12:57] <mjg59> tseng: Depends. Hang on.
[12:58] <mjg59> tseng: The fix I sent to Ben isn't in the changelog, so I guess so
[12:58] <tseng> win
[12:58] <tseng> ill test it again for good luck
[12:58] <mjg59> I'll chase up Ben
[12:59] <mdz> yay gdb
[12:59] <mdz>  /build/buildd/gdb-6.3/gdb/linux-nat.c:495: internal-error: wait returned unexpected status 0x4057f
[01:01] <mdz> gdb can't debug Xorg-debug
[01:02] <mdz> can someone try the current daily live CD for me?
[01:02] <mdz> I need to know if this is just some incredibly lucky race on my hardware
[01:02] <mdz> i386 or amd64 is fine
[01:03] <elmo> well, I can in 50 minutes...
[01:04] <Kamion> elmo: re your powerpc lvm bug, installation on lvm isn't supported yet on powerpc so I'll probably just disable that option
[01:04] <Kamion> elmo: have you tried it on i386/amd64 recently?
[01:04] <elmo> Kamion: not yet
[01:05] <elmo> we're planning on starting breezy server testing tomorrow and/or whenever next colony is
[01:06] <slomo> hm, is someone with an ibook g4 here who runs an (fairly) up to date breezy with initramfs and the like?
[01:08] <crimsun> tritium has an ibook or an imac, I don't remember which
[01:08] <tritium> hmm?  I have a new 20" iMac...
[01:08] <tritium> What's up?
[01:09] <mdz> Kamion: it was suggested that perhaps the lvm option should be less obvious; I'm inclined to agree if that's easy to do
[01:09] <crimsun> tritium: slomo was asking for someone with an ibook g4
[01:10] <tritium> Oh, okay.  hoary and breezy kernel panic on the new iMac, so I can't put ubuntu on it yet anyway
[01:10] <Kamion> mdz: I do think it gets in the way too much as it is given that we decided not to make it the default, but I'm unsure as to where else to put it
[01:10] <slomo> tritium: for breezy what panic do you get? something about unable to mount root fs?
[01:11] <tritium> slomo, sounds right.  It has been a while since I tried it.  I'll try again if you like.
[01:12] <slomo> tritium: would be perfect :) i talked to the kernel guys already but they couldn't reproduce my problem and had no idea what was wrong
[01:13] <tritium> Okay, I'll download a daily image and give it a try.  It'll be a few hours before I'm back, and can give you an update, slomo 
[01:13] <slomo> tritium: ok, fine :) i also tried the daily a few hours ago and it didn't work for me... colony 3 don't work too... only colony 2 ;)
[01:14] <tritium> slomo, okay, will do.
[01:14] <slomo> tritium: thanks :)
[01:15] <tritium> slomo, No problem :)  Both install and live?
[01:16] <slomo> tritium: i only tried install... but as rescue mode and installer are working i see no reason why the live cd shouldn't work ;)
[01:17] <tritium> okay, grabbing install CD now
[01:18] <slomo> and i install again from colony 2 ;) i need the ibook tomorrow :/
[01:20] <tritium> slomo, you might also ask nalioth what he's tried with all his powerpc machines.  He's a good resource
[01:20] <mdz> Kamion: I think I'd prefer that usplash just deal with being installed after the kernel
[01:21] <mdz> Kamion: my only reservation is that regenerating the initramfs can be risky
[01:22] <Kamion> mdz: I didn't realise that there was a problem there; I was simply referring to the task of getting it installed on first boot
[01:25] <slomo> tritium: thanks :) i'll do tomorrow
[01:25] <mdz> Kamion: it's certainly the simplest solution: have usplash re-mkinitramfs in its postinst
[01:25] <StrikeForce> hey all
[01:25] <mdz> mjg59: what do you think?
[01:26] <StrikeForce> I uploaded a package that was in main to revu can someone revu it please?
[01:26] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. Which kernel would it change?
[01:27] <mdz> mjg59: the one the default symlink points to
[01:27] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[01:27] <mdz> we do default symlinks on powerpc too, right?
[01:27] <mjg59> Yeah, I'm good with that
[01:27] <slomo> mdz: yes
[01:27] <Kamion> mdz: yes; just note that on some arches they're in / and on others they're in /boot
[01:28] <Kamion> for historical reasons
[01:28] <mjg59> mdz: There's a bzr repository at people.debian.org/~mjg59/usplash
[01:28] <mjg59> I'm too tired to write code that might break someone's boot right now :)
[01:31] <mdz> mjg59: ok, this is interesting
[01:31] <mdz> mjg59: it's only ~4 seconds after gdm startup that I see the console switch
[01:31] <mdz> not 15
[01:32] <mdz> and it's going back to vt2, which is where it was when usplash was started
[01:32] <mjg59> mdz: Hrm. Then I suspect something nasty in the usplash vt switch signal logic
[01:33] <mdz> mjg59: I have an strace from the X server if that interests you
[01:33] <mdz> I'm not even entirely surely that usplash is exiting; it's difficult to check at that stage
[01:33] <mdz> I don't know why else I would go to vt2 though
[01:34] <mdz> OH
[01:34] <mdz> what does usplash od if it gets an invalid progress value?
[01:34] <mdz> well, bother, it just ignores it as it should
[01:34] <mjg59> Uhm. Unsure.
[01:34] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:35] <mjg59> mdz: The thing I'd recommend looking at is the bogl code that handles VT switches
[01:35] <mdz> mjg59: but I don't know what would be triggering a vt switch
[01:35] <mdz> does usplash catch any signals?
[01:35] <mjg59> Yes
[01:36] <mjg59> It registers USR2 for VT switches
[01:36] <mdz> hmm, I don't know what would be sending it USR2
[01:36] <mjg59> The kernel
[01:36] <mdz> oh?
[01:36] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:36] <mjg59> Check the code in bogl.c
[01:36] <mjg59> There's an ioctl to request a signal on VT switches
[01:37] <mdz> oh, VT_SETMODE
[01:37] <sladen> mjg59: you don't need to use the ioctl;  you can echo an escape string to the console
[01:37] <sladen> mjg59: == saves being root
[01:37] <mdz> that explains it
[01:37] <mdz> mjg59: I thought you were just hanging around and timing out, and at that time checking if there had been a vt switch
[01:38] <mjg59> Ah, nope
[01:38] <mdz> so it's entirely reasonable that this could be racy
[01:38] <mdz> since X's VT_ACTIVATE should trigger the signal
[01:39] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah - sorry, I thought you realised that that was what it was doing
[01:39] <mjg59> The idea is that someone can press ctrl+alt+f1 and get back to the normal console
[01:40] <mdz> mjg59: shouldn't that Just Work?
[01:40] <mdz> oh, I suppose not, if it'd continue drawing
[01:40] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:40] <mdz> what does VT_RELDISP do?
[01:41] <mdz> ah, tells the kernel it's OK to switch
[01:44] <mdz> mjg59: so the SIGUSR2 triggers bogl's handler, which cleans itself up and tells the kernel it's OK to switch, and also interrupts the select loop and causes usplash to exit?
[01:44] <sladen> mdz: it's an ack/disallow from userspace to the kernel before a switch is actually made
[01:44] <mjg59> mdz: I think it just exits itself, doesn't it?
[01:44] <mjg59> I'll admit to not having checked over that code path very well
[01:45] <mdz> mjg59: vt_switch() seems to just enable/disable bogl stuff
[01:45] <mdz> mjg59: presumably select(2) returns -EINTR or so, and you break out of the loop on any error from select
[01:45] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:45] <mjg59> I'd guess
[01:45] <mdz> aha
[01:45] <mdz> yep
[01:45] <mdz> -> ERESTARTNOHAND
[01:46] <mdz> mjg59: this is so a usplash bug :-P
[01:46] <mjg59> Haha
[01:46] <mdz> it shouldn't try to switch consoles if the reason that we're exiting is because the user switched consoles
[01:46] <mjg59> I've never claimed that my software is bugfree
[01:46] <mjg59> Nngh. Right.
[01:47] <mdz> mjg59: a quick test confirms that if I start usplash and hit ctrl+alt+f3, I still end up back at vt2
[01:48] <mdz> I'll see what I can do with it
[01:48] <sladen> mjg59: if you don't request the VT_POSSESION (in bogl) then switching will just happen on its own
[01:49] <mjg59> sladen: bogl needs to know to stop drawing to the framebuffer
[01:49] <Lathiat_> hrm, my firefox freezes up whenever i click on a download link of some kind
[01:53] <Lathiat_> hrm itneresting, and you cant run official builds now because libXp.so.6 doesnt exist
[01:53] <sladen> mjg59: yeah, urm.  I just had the parent loop and poll the current VT
[01:53] <mjg59> sladen: Sounds racey
[01:54] <sladen> mjg59: indeed
[02:21] <elmo> wow, live cd is painfully slow on this laptop
[02:21] <elmo> is breezy's slower or is it the cdrom and/or lack of memory (256) in this machine?
[02:22] <TerminX> I could see GNOME on 256 megs being pretty slow..
[02:22] <mdz> elmo: it's lack of DMA on the CD
[02:22] <elmo> this is nowhere near gnome
[02:22] <elmo> mdz: ok, well, it booted, but X failed to start
[02:22] <TerminX> oh.
[02:23] <elmo> mdz: "sh: getconfig: command not found"
[02:23] <mdz> getconfig?
[02:23] <TerminX> I made the assumption that you were talking about slow to use, not that it was sitting there trying to boot and failing to start X and stuff :)
[02:23] <mdz> no clue what that is
[02:23] <elmo> shall I file a bug?
[02:23] <mdz> sure, why not
[02:23] <mdz> where did you see that error?
[02:24] <mdz> mjg59: usplash 0.7-1 uploaded, diff en route to your mailbox
[02:24] <elmo> mdz: I got a "X failed to start, do you want to see the log" dialog, and I'm in that
[02:24] <elmo> so I assume /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[02:24] <mdz> elmo: oh
[02:25] <mdz> that's X's way of telling you that xorg.conf doesn't exist, I think
[02:25] <mdz> so check /var/log/casper/post.log
[02:25] <mdz> which contains the debug output from trying to configure X
[02:25] <elmo> cirrus_laguna?
[02:25] <mdz> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14450
[02:26] <elmo> ok, so it probably all falls apart from therE?
[02:27] <mdz> well, for me, it still generated a valid (but incorrect) xorg.conf
[02:27] <mdz> do you have /etc/X11/xorg.conf or no?
[02:27] <elmo> no
[02:27] <elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/post.log
[02:27] <elmo> (hey, networking works ;)
[02:28] <mdz> ++ expr ' @ 60Hz' / 20
[02:28] <mdz> expr: non-numeric argument
[02:28] <mdz> sounds like you have another bug on top of that one
[02:29] <elmo> what's that the sh -x output of?
[02:29] <mdz> xserver-xorg.config
[02:30] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[02:31] <mdz> now that I've had to learn about Linux VT switching anyway, maybe I can find out why gdm's shutdown vt switching is broken on the live CD
[02:34] <elmo> hmm, i can't reproduce it on the command line, how annoying
[02:36] <mjg59> elmo: If you're on the laptop you borrowed, can you try gnome-power-manager?
[02:37] <elmo> mjg59: yeah, once I've finished retrying the live CD
[02:37] <elmo> mjg59: the hot key to suspend worked tonight tho when I left the office
[02:37] <elmo> but lid close still didn't
[02:39] <mjg59> elmo: Yeah, it won't do
[02:39] <mjg59> g-p-m ought to let you configure that
[02:40] <mdz> elmo: new jackass is LOVE
[02:41] <elmo> yeah, it rocks.  I love DL385's
[02:42] <elmo> hmm, this sucks
[02:42] <mdz> except for that /dev/cciss madness
[02:42] <elmo> I retried live CD, and now I can't get off of the "Failed to start the X server" dialog VT
[02:42] <mdz> yeah, that happens
[02:42] <elmo> yeah, that's annoying, I can't get snmpd to like it
[02:42] <mjg59> elmo: Yes, I've had that happen
[02:42] <mdz> there's a bug in bugzilla somewhere
[02:43] <mdz> elmo: alt+sysrq+r
[02:43] <elmo> ok, I'm going to throw this bug at daniel, he may be able to recognise it from post.log; i can always retry later if he can't
[02:43] <mdz> the keyboard gets left in raw mode sometimes
[02:43] <elmo> WTF is sysrq on a laptop?
[02:43] <mdz> mine is labeled "sysrq" :-P
[02:43] <mdz> but then, I buy IBM
[02:43] <elmo> oh, yes, so it is
[02:43] <elmo> it's a dark room :P
[02:43] <mdz> Fn+PgUp
[02:44] <mdz> a clever choice, given that it's easy to find in the dark
[02:44] <elmo> hmm, it's Fn+Delete here, but it's not doing anything
[02:45] <mdz> Fn+PgUp on thinkpads turns on the light
[02:45] <mdz> the hunt-and-peck light
[02:45] <mjg59> elmo: You tend to need to do vn+alt+sysreq+(release fn)+key
[02:45] <mjg59> Otherwise fn modifies the other key as well
[02:45] <elmo> christ
[02:46] <elmo> nope, no love
[02:46] <elmo> I got it to eject the CD while  bashing stuff tho
[02:50] <jdub> elmo: you running vmware at the DC?
[02:50] <Lathiat_> is anyoen else experiencing serious gamin problems?
[02:50] <Lathiat_> most of the time its not working, and when ti gets really bad, attempts to connect to the socket hang which breaks half thea pplication on the desktop at startup
[02:50] <Lathiat_> and this has only been the last week or so its been this bad
[02:51] <jdub> mdz: http://www.m17n.org/mcpp/index_eng.html
[02:52] <elmo> jdub: not yet; we are at the office
[02:52] <jdub> elmo: oh, for desktops?
[02:52] <jdub> dude
[02:52] <jdub> journalists are posting their articles to sounder now
[02:57] <mdz> 456456456
[02:57] <mdz> oop
[02:59] <jdub> that's the NSA's phone number!
[02:59] <jdub> quick, tackle mdz!
[03:00] <mdz> thas'[
[03:00] <mdz> that's me trying to learn a kinesis keyboard
[03:01] <elmo> mjg59: hum
[03:01] <jdub> what's a kinesis keyboard?
[03:01] <elmo> mjg59: "Battery Charge Monitor" has quit unexpectedly, when I installed g-p-m
[03:01] <jdub> elmo: did dbus/hal restart?
[03:01] <Lathiat_> elmo: might be due to dbus restarting
[03:01] <Lathiat_> lag
[03:02] <elmo> eww, do we really need bubble pop up spam for the language pack stuff?
[03:02] <elmo> jdub: yes
[03:02] <jdub> language pack spam? what does that one say?
[03:02] <elmo> "we split into gnome, kde, everything else, kthxbye"
[03:02] <jdub> oh no
[03:03] <mdz> jdub: www.kinesis.com
[03:04] <jdub> is it pictured on the front page?
[03:04] <jdub> this keyboard gives me license to say things like "dude" and "tubular"
[03:04] <lifeless> tubular dudes ?
[03:04] <jdub> like totally
[03:05] <mdz> jdub: this one is an old one
[03:05] <mdz> but similar
[03:05] <mdz> it makes me slow
[03:06] <elmo> mjg59: eek, is g-p-m the "power preferences" thing?
[03:06] <jdub> and the 'new' battery applet
[03:06] <Lathiat_> heh cute, someone attempting to brute force an ssh password to my box tried the username "dbus"
[03:06] <jdub> not that i think anyone wants to use it
[03:07] <jdub> and the power prefs is crazy
[03:07] <desrt> Lathiat; they hope you are beyond stupid
[03:07] <jdub> Lathiat_: that's like, critical mass or something
[03:07] <Lathiat_> desrt: obviously
[03:07] <desrt> gpm is interesting
[03:08] <elmo> that keyboard looks beyond weird
[03:08] <desrt> the one thing i don't understand about gpm is why it is a session daemon
[03:11] <mdz> elmo: pitti uses one now
[03:11] <jdub> itanium solutions alliance!
[03:12] <ajmitch> afternoon
[03:12] <mdz> obsolescence alliance!
[03:12] <jdub> yesterday's news consortium!
[03:13] <elmo> got ipw chipsets are so freakin lame
[03:14] <elmo> they're still broken in breezy :(
[03:14] <Lathiat_> as in intel?
[03:15] <jdub> dude, centrino is teh mighty!
[03:15] <jdub> mine is working ok
[03:16] <elmo> jdub: every ipw in the office breaks, like daily
[03:16] <Lathiat_> my ipw2200 ahs always worked
[03:16] <Lathiat_> it had some problems back in the early ipw2200 driver days
[03:16] <Lathiat_> where it randomly stopped working
[03:16] <Lathiat_> but seems fine these days
[03:17] <jdub> hrm
[03:17] <jdub> d'oh ;)
[03:20] <Lathiat_> that didnt show up before i rebooted presumably because gamin is the suck
[03:31] <elmo> ah, hmm, I take it back, that was in fact my netgear WAP breaking.  yay.
[03:32] <zul> my ipw2200 works
[03:36] <Lathiat_> elmo: ah, heh
[03:46] <mdz> elmo: it does still spew firmware errors
[04:03] <jdub> mjg59: around?
[04:07] <jbailey> jdub: yoyosup!
[04:08] <jdub> morning jbailey 
[04:08] <jbailey> So I'm curious about your SCSI woes. 
[04:09] <jbailey> They ought not to happen anymore...
[04:09] <jbailey> So I'm surprised that they do.
[04:09] <jdub> how soon is anymore?
[04:10] <jbailey> A few weeks ago.
[04:10] <jbailey> So I'm clearly wrong. =)
[04:10] <jdub> aha
[04:10] <jdub> ;-)
[04:11] <jdub> just upgrading that machine now, with -8 abi kernsl
[04:11] <jdub> kernels
[04:12] <jbailey> Cool.  I'm curious about your SCSI card.
[04:12] <jdub> it's a sata_sil
[04:12] <jdub> elcheapo
[04:12] <jdub> 0000:00:0d.0 RAID bus controller: Silicon Image, Inc. (formerly CMD Technology Inc) SiI 3112 [SATALink/SATARaid]  Serial ATA Controller (rev 02)
[04:13] <Lathiat_> mmm fakeraid
[04:13] <jdub> yeah, i don't use that poo
[04:13] <Lathiat_> you can get cardbus cards witht hat chipset
[04:13] <Lathiat_> for $44!
[04:13] <Lathiat_> with two ports
[04:13] <jbailey> jdub: Raid.  But the question is why isn't the pci scan  picking up the scsi card?
[04:13] <Lathiat_> and yuo can get external sata caddies for $50
[04:13] <Lathiat_> im gonna get a coulpe + a controller, beats firewire or usb :)
[04:14] <jbailey> jdub: Can you look in /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0d.0 for me?
[04:15] <jbailey> jdub: In there, there should be a 'modalias' file.
[04:15] <jbailey> I'd like to know what's in it.
[04:16] <jbailey> (This is from the running system)
[04:17] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah
[04:17] <mjg59> elmo: Gah. It probably restarts dbus
[04:17] <jdub> $ cat /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0d.0/modalias
[04:17] <jdub> pci:v00001095d00003112sv00001095sd00006112bc01sc04i00
[04:17] <jbailey> And this is i386, right?
[04:18] <jdub> yeah
[04:18] <jdub> it's like *so* run of the mill machine
[04:18] <jdub> p2 bx chipset
[04:18] <jbailey> The top entry in modules.alias ought to match that.
[04:18] <jbailey> So iz not a kernel bug.
[04:19] <jbailey> jdub: Do you have multiple machines?
[04:20] <jdub> jbailey: not similar
[04:20] <jdub> oh
[04:20] <jdub> well
[04:21] <jdub> actually i do have another mobo and cpu around
[04:21] <jdub> but probably no box and psu
[04:21] <jdub> :-)
[04:21] <jdub> oh, and i don't have another machine with sata atm
[04:21] <jbailey> No, I more mean, are you able to be interactive with me during the boot process?
[04:21] <jdub> oh
[04:21] <jdub> yes
[04:21] <jdub> it just provides dns ;)
[04:22] <jdub> it is not the fw
[04:22] <mjg59> jdub: Pong?
[04:23] <jdub> mjg59: sorry, doing four conversations at once
[04:23] <jdub> mjg59: i have new image to send you in a little while if you want to play
[04:23] <jbailey> jdub: sata_sil is included in the initramfs, so it should be safe to take out of the modules.  We'll be able to load it by hand.
[04:23] <jbailey> jdub: As always, make a backup
[04:23] <jbailey> mkinitramfs -o /boot/FOO isn't a bad idea for playing. =)
[04:23] <jdub> ;-)
[04:24] <mjg59> jdub: Ok, rock
[04:25] <jdub> jbailey: ok, verified it's in my current initrd
[04:25] <jbailey> Even without it in /etc/mkinitramfs/modules ?
[04:25] <jdub> oh
[04:25] <jdub> boh
[04:25] <jbailey> ;)
[04:26] <jdub> cp initrd.img-2.6.12-8-686 SAFEWORD
[04:26] <jdub> ;-)
[04:27] <Lathiat_> heh
[04:27] <squinn> and i'm now legal on the interweb!
[04:27] <squinn> yay
[04:27] <squinn> or at least in utc time i am
[04:27] <lifeless> erm, I so don't want to know what that means.
[04:27] <squinn> i'm 13.
[04:27] <squinn> as of 9/1
[04:28] <jdub> root@katia:/tmp/cock # find | grep sata_sil
[04:28] <jdub> ./lib/modules/2.6.12-7-686/kernel/drivers/scsi/sata_sil.ko
[04:28] <jdub> root@katia:/tmp/cock # find | grep sd_mod
[04:28] <jdub> ./lib/modules/2.6.12-7-686/kernel/drivers/scsi/sd_mod.ko
[04:28] <jdub> 
[04:28] <jdub> jbailey: looks ok
[04:28] <jbailey> Lovely.
[04:28] <jdub> now you're going to make me reboot
[04:28] <jbailey> So if you could reboot and add 'break' to the kernel command line...
[04:28] <jbailey> Well, you needed to anyway for the -8 upgrade.
[04:29] <jbailey> So no sympathy. ;)
[04:29] <jbailey> See.  I seem to remember him saying that he had a *different* box to test on...
[04:30] <windub> naw, i had a mobo and chip
[04:30] <jbailey> Yup, that's pretty much what my backscroll said.
[04:30] <jbailey> So why did he log off again? =)
[04:30] <jbailey> Sheesh, some people's coworkers.
[04:30] <windub> because i run irssi on my server
[04:31] <jbailey> Unhuh, sure.
[04:31] <jbailey> You're just making me feel guilty for you running windows.
[04:31] <jbailey> BUT IT WONT WORK.
[04:31] <windub> haha
[04:31] <windub> no, i've been running windows here and there on my desktop every now and then
[04:31] <jbailey> The correct hemisphere awakes, I see.
[04:32] <jbailey> Yeah, I've got MS Exchange disks on the way so that I can actually troubleshoot evo-exchange. 
[04:32] <jbailey> *sigh*
[04:32] <lifeless> ewww
[04:32] <lifeless> don't do it. you'll feel dirty
[04:32] <ajmitch> jbailey: some of us have been awake for hours :)
[04:32] <jbailey> ajmitch: You never sleep, so you're removed from the set to avoid skewing the sample.
[04:32] <mjg59> daniels: Do we have a fake X server that supports DAMAGE in the archive?
[04:32] <jbailey> windub: I have one.  It just runs a ppc processor. =)
[04:32] <jbailey> So sad. =)
[04:32] <windub> :-)
[04:32] <lifeless> windub: you need to prove the existence of a real machine powerful enough to do that first.
[04:32] <windub> ok, different errors this time
[04:33] <jbailey> windub: Ooo oo ooo..  
[04:33] <jbailey> Wiat, you got errors/
[04:33] <jbailey> did you remember to add 'break' to the kernel command line?
[04:33] <windub> buttloads of could not load /lib/modules/.../modules.dep
[04:33] <windub> yes
[04:33] <jbailey> Umm.
[04:33] <jbailey> So did the depmod -a not fire for you?
[04:33] <jbailey> are you at a shll prompt?
[04:33] <windub> yeah
[04:34] <windub> i can't scroll back very far :|
[04:34] <jbailey> Can you try depmod -a and tell me what happens?
[04:34] <windub> oh
[04:34] <windub> dude
[04:34] <jbailey> Not worried about that, but I might hack in some more debugging bits in initramfs for you.
[04:34] <windub> my fault
[04:34] <jbailey> It is?
[04:34] <jbailey> =)
[04:34] <windub> i mkinitramfs without specifying version while i was running the old kernel
[04:34] <windub> hold on
[04:34] <jbailey> Ahah.  Yeah that would suck. =)
[04:35] <jbailey> Sorry, I should've thought about that. =)
[04:35] <windub> <- i'm with stupid
[04:35] <jbailey> windub: I wouldn't like to be near your belle when you said that.
[04:36] <jbailey> I suspect that he violence travels in ever expanding waves...
[04:36] <jbailey> +r
[04:36] <elmo> THE ITCHY AND SCRATCHY SHOW
[04:36] <daniels> mjg59: no
[04:36] <daniels> mjg59: hassle ross to get xfake into the archive STAT
[04:36] <daniels> mjg59: also xephyr
[04:37] <windub> pia's in the loungeroom atm, actually
[04:38] <mjg59> We seem to have everything we need in order to build xfake
[04:38] <mjg59> elmo: Yeah, it's the power-preferences thing
[04:38] <mjg59> When that's running, you can tell it to suspend on lid close
[04:46] <windub> jbailey: ok, booting again with break
[04:46] <windub> no errors at all, dumped to shell :-)
[04:47] <jbailey> windub: Lovely, cat /proc/modules please, let's see if your sata bit is in there?
[04:47] <windub> yeah
[04:47] <windub> sd_mod and sata_sil
[04:47] <jbailey> Sounds like. =)
[04:47] <windub> perhaps you fixed it by looking at it
[04:48] <jbailey> It's the great part about sharing a name.  Perhaps we are more powerful because we can channel one another's fixit-fu.
[04:48] <windub> ha ha ha ha
[04:48] <windub> ok
[04:48] <windub> i get two mdadm started messages
[04:48] <windub> md0 2 drives -> wrong!
[04:48] <windub> md1 1 drive out of 2
[04:49] <windub> mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: no such file or directory
[04:49] <windub> mounting /dev on /root/dev failed: no such file
[04:49] <windub> kernel panic
[04:49] <windub> 
[04:49] <windub> so
[04:49] <windub> my md0 doesn't have two drives
[04:49] <windub> md0 = 1 disk sata
[04:49] <windub> md1 = 2 disk pata (mobo)
[04:50] <windub> so it's detecting them the wrong way around :|
[04:50] <jbailey> Oh, they're changing order on you?
[04:50] <jbailey> Hmm
[04:50] <jbailey> Bugger.
[04:51] <jbailey> I had tried really hard to avoid that problem.
[04:51] <jbailey> If I hadn't, I could've greatly simplified the script.
[04:51] <windub> i'm not even using the pata md1 atm :-)
[04:51] <jbailey> Well, there's probably bugger all I can do about it. =(
[04:52] <jbailey> I don't knwo of anyway of detecting which raid device should be associated with which thing if mdrun isn't doing it.
[04:52] <windub> why did it work with the initrd?
[04:52] <windub> probably for the same reason it works when i load the modules explicitly
[04:54] <jbailey> Right.  It'll be a module load order.
[04:55] <jbailey> Oh, I bet...
[04:55] <windub> didn't it run mdrun on particular devices in order?
[04:55] <jbailey> I detect the IDE drives before I detect the SCSI ones.
[04:55] <jbailey> You mean the old initrd?
[04:55] <jbailey> It let the kernel assemble it for us.
[04:55] <windub> the md script in your initramfs
[04:55] <jbailey> With initramfs, that's now all in userspace.
[04:55] <windub> oh yeah
[04:56] <jbailey> /sbin/mdrun /dev
[04:56] <jbailey> That's all I do.
[04:56] <windub> i thought you were looping around /dev/hd* /dev/sda* stuff as well in there
[04:56] <jbailey> All the walking over the devices is to determine the raid levels so that we modprobe raid1, etc.
[04:56] <lifeless> userspace good. mmmm
[04:57] <windub> ok, the detect raid level loop does that
[04:57] <jbailey> And then after that I just run mdrun.
[04:58] <jbailey> But I called the script in particular so that the raid devices would get detected the same as before. =(
[04:58] <windub> reckon mdadm --examine starts raid devices?
[04:58] <jbailey> It ought not to - it should just tell me what's in the raid superblock.
[04:59] <windub> hrm, mdrun -> was it ever used before initramfs?
[04:59] <jbailey> Only to start up raid for devices who's modules weren't built into the system.
[04:59] <jbailey> So hmm.
[05:00] <jbailey> Maybe it wasn't doing this magic for us.
[05:00] <windub> need magic!
[05:00] <jbailey> Part of what appears to suck is that the preferred minor is wrong on my local setup anyway.
[05:00] <windub> so this is almost certainly mdrun
[05:00] <jbailey> Can you do an mdadm -E /dev/sd${fOO} and look at the preferred minor for me?
[05:00] <jbailey> Is it right?
[05:01] <windub> sec, i'll have to reboot with break
[05:01] <jbailey> No, you can do it from a running syste.
[05:01] <windub> hard from a kernel panic shell ;-)
[05:01] <jbailey> Eh?
[05:01] <jbailey> Oh, it wouldn't have dropped to a shell because the root exists.
[05:01] <jbailey> Hmm
[05:01] <jbailey> I should have a panic in there for that, too.
[05:02] <jbailey> I guess that gets as far as mounting the drive, and then realises that there's no /sbin/init
[05:02] <windub> preferred minor = 0
[05:03] <jbailey> So it would be right for you?
[05:03] <daniels> mjg59: yes, all the pre-reqs are in the archive.  ross was coming up with xserver packages a while back, so yeah, harass him about getting 'em into universe.  (NOT MAIN)
[05:03] <windub> um
[05:04] <windub> jbailey: yes, that's right
[05:04] <windub> jbailey: but the preferred minor on my other disks is 0 too
[05:04] <jbailey> Oh really?
[05:04] <jbailey> Joy.
[05:05] <jbailey> But...
[05:05] <jbailey> Why would module load order make a difference?
[05:05] <windub> ... kernel detection?
[05:05] <jbailey> Your SATA stuff shows up as /dev/sd* and your PATA stuff as /dev/hd* right?
[05:05] <windub> yeah
[05:05] <jbailey> The assembly is done in userspace by a shellscript.
[05:05] <windub> and the kernel *doesn't* do autodetection anymore?
[05:06] <jbailey> Right.  That whole step is skipped as soon as you use an initramfs.
[05:06] <windub> ok
[05:06] <windub> hmm
[05:06] <windub> md0 == /dev/sda1, failed
[05:06] <windub> md1 == /dev/hda, /dev/hdc
[05:06] <ajmitch> jbailey: it's part of your secret plan to make things more hurd-like?
[05:07] <jbailey> ajmitch: Secret?  Who's keeping it a secret?
[05:07] <jbailey> ajmitch: Linux sucks in so many ways, and is great in one amazing way:  It works.
[05:07] <jbailey> Unfortunately, it's the way that counts.
[05:07] <windub> religion is off-topic on #u-d ;-)
[05:07] <ajmitch> it's the things that can't be said about the hurd, sadly
[05:08] <jbailey> windub: It's not religion, I'm authoritative. =)
[05:09] <windub> ok, anything else i can do now?
[05:09] <windub> or should i reboot and commit to my uptime? ;)
[05:10] <jbailey> No, probably nothign at the moment.
[05:10] <Burgundavia> windub, are the p.g.o rss feeds broken?
[05:10] <jbailey> Any tests I do, I'll do here on my md setup first.
[05:10] <windub> Burgundavia: yes
[05:10] <windub> jbailey: ok, ta
[05:10] <Burgundavia> windub, ah, ok. np
[05:11] <windub> but there is a problem :)
[05:11] <fabbione> morning
[05:11] <windub> jbailey: uh oh
[05:12] <windub> jbailey: i just modprobed sd_mod and sata_sil
[05:12] <windub> jbailey: and then ran mdrun, and it came up with the same :)
[05:12] <jbailey> *cry*
[05:13] <windub> ok, it did the right thing
[05:13] <windub> if modules has sata_sil and sd_mod, it does the right thing
[05:18] <jbailey> Well, by the earlier point when you can drop to a shell, it's already done modules detection.
[05:18] <jbailey> So somehow the orderng is dependant on the order the modules are loaded.
[05:18] <jbailey> Suck, but at least we know that it's not a sata problem.
[05:19] <jdub> right
[05:21] <jdub> mjg59: mailed
[05:23] <jbailey> mjg59: I had an evil thought the other day for initramfs / usplash replacement / regeneration.
[05:23] <jbailey> I don't know how ugly this is, I suspect very.
[05:24] <jbailey> But if the usplash initramfs were concatinated as a second cpio tarball, it could be added on after, and possibly swapped out.
[05:24] <jdub> :-)
[05:24] <jdub> that'd be rad
[05:24] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok. Does that /work/ ?
[05:24] <jdub> much easier to work with for the livecd too
[05:24] <jdub> how do you specify multiple cpios?
[05:25] <jbailey> mjg59: concatinating cpio.gz files?  Yeah, I tested it.
[05:25] <jbailey> jdub: Literally just cat them together.
[05:25] <jdub> oh, can't you not concatenate?
[05:25] <mjg59> jbailey: Well, if you can write up what needs doing, I can take a look at it
[05:25] <jdub> i thought you could use a list of cpios too
[05:26] <jbailey> initramfs-tools is theoretically already setup for working with overlays like that.  *that* is totally untested, though. =)
[05:26] <Lathiat_> same as gzip
[05:26] <jbailey> Cool my "jdub mounts the wrong filesystem" hack drops me to a shell now.
[05:26] <Lathiat_> you can just concat thema nd they unzip as one
[05:26] <jbailey> jdub: You'd need the bootloader to assemble them for you.
[05:26] <jbailey> jdub: I'd love to do that, but it still needs a fallback case then for incapable bootloaders.
[05:27] <jbailey> jdub: Until we have grub2 running everywhere... =)
[05:27] <jbailey> Lathiat_: Ah?  I didn't know that.
[05:27] <Lathiat_> jbailey: yeh
[05:27] <Lathiat_> so if what you say works
[05:27] <Lathiat_> apparently cpio archives can be concatted too
[05:28] <Lathiat_> since thats basically what you end up with
[05:28] <Lathiat_> i think it works with tar too 
[05:28] <jbailey> Oh, but it gunzips them as one file.
[05:28] <Lathiat_> yeh
[05:28] <jbailey> Hmm
[05:28] <Lathiat_> crap sticks
[05:28] <Lathiat_> i ran out of disk space
[05:28] <jbailey> I need to rip them apart and replace one of them, possibly in the middle for this idea.
[05:29] <jbailey> Hmm.  Apparetnly fsck is longer than usplash's patience on my box.
[05:29] <desrt> Lathiat_; be careful
[05:29] <Lathiat_> desrt: of what?
[05:29] <Lathiat_> root doesnt have any files on /home :)
[05:29] <desrt> Lathiat_; -m 8 reduces filesystem fragmentation
[05:29] <Lathiat_> probably
[05:29] <Lathiat_> but i want more disk space damnit ;p
[05:29] <desrt> if you have no reserved blocks then you get more fragmentation :P
[05:30] <Lathiat_> guess i should clean up a bit ;p
[05:30] <desrt> see also: drives are cheap :)
[05:30] <Lathiat_> see also: im broke
[05:30] <desrt> :(
[05:30] <Lathiat_> and its a laptop, new disk for a laptop isnt so cheap
[05:30] <desrt> ow
[05:31] <Lathiat_> i want to get a sata cardbus card ($44!) and a sata external caddy ($50!) and then a sta drive
[05:31] <desrt> sata cardbus... wow
[05:31] <jdub> oh man, ETA for my new LCD is 14th :-|
[05:31] <Lathiat_> yeh and its cheap as
[05:31] <Lathiat_> i want so bad
[05:31] <Lathiat_> two ports
[05:31] <desrt> jdub; apple or dell?
[05:31] <Lathiat_> sata sil
[05:31] <jdub> dell
[05:31] <desrt> 20 or 24?
[05:31] <jdub> with another 20% off too
[05:31] <jdub> 24
[05:31] <desrt> sweet :)
[05:31] <Lathiat_> jdub: nice
[05:32] <jdub> buy before sept 2 for a $1440 24" *very* HQ LCD :)
[05:32] <desrt> is that AU$?
[05:32] <jdub> yeah
[05:32] <desrt> hmm
[05:32] <jbailey> desrt: .au$ same as ours.
[05:32] <desrt> jbailey; a bit less
[05:32] <jbailey> For UDU it was a literal 1.0 exchange.
[05:32] <desrt> it's like 93 or something
[05:33] <jdub> only our colours are better
[05:33] <desrt> pfah
[05:33] <desrt> your money is plastic
[05:33] <jdub> jbailey: you guys are plastic now too, right?
[05:33] <desrt> jdub; heck no
[05:33] <jbailey> Nope.
[05:33] <jbailey> Still cotton and hemp, iirc.
[05:33] <jdub> savages
[05:33] <jbailey> jdub: We're *hippies*
[05:33] <jbailey> get it right.
[05:33] <jbailey> and pass me the bong.
[05:33] <fabbione> jbailey: initramfs'ed sparc rebooting now...
[05:33] <desrt> "paper plastic or rubber" falls apart when you don't have paper anymore
[05:35] <Lathiat_> whoever wrote ethereal is a god
[05:37] <Burgundavia> jdub, this art.gnome.org stuff reminds me of the docteam stuff we went through earlier
[05:37] <Burgundavia> jdub, make that art.ubuntu
[05:42] <Lathiat_> curious... if i dont have a route out an interface for an ip range and i get a multicast packet it isnt given to me
[05:42] <Lathiat_> err, for that ip range the packet came from.
[05:44] <fabbione> jbailey: would you accept an initramfs bug on sparc?
[05:45] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes.  Depending on what it is, it might get fixed in the upload planned shortly.
[05:46] <jbailey> shortly, like I'm testing some more evms bits, and then I'm uploading. =)
[05:46] <fabbione> jbailey: see /msg
[05:46] <fabbione> the output on console is not 100% clear
[05:46] <jbailey> It's clear to me. =)
[05:47] <fabbione> jbailey: note that the harddisks are recognized..
[05:47] <fabbione> and one fs is mounted..
[05:47] <fabbione> they are scsi disks..
[05:47] <fabbione> so probably it doesn't load sd_mod ?
[05:47] <jbailey> Hmm.
[05:47] <jbailey> It might be that your SCSI disks are spinning up too slowly.
[05:48] <fabbione> that's very possible
[05:48] <fabbione> jbailey: let me boot with the old kernel and add a sleep..
[05:48] <jbailey> fabbione: Yup.
[05:48] <jbailey> Add it to /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions
[05:48] <jbailey> Just add it to the top of "scsi_boot_events"
[05:49] <jbailey> If there's any way taht I can detect that the bus scan isn't finished, I'm all ears.
[05:49] <fabbione> jbailey: yups..
[05:49] <jbailey> I have an arbitrary sleep 2 in there right now, which is probably totally not good enough.
[05:50] <fabbione> MEEEEEHHHH
[05:50] <fabbione> go silo!
[05:50] <fabbione> it doesn't let me switch to the old kernel
[05:50] <jbailey> Add break to the kernel command line.
[05:50] <jbailey> All the modules are there, you should be able to do this all by hand.
[05:51] <jbailey> FWIW, grub2 on sparc will load the kernel, it just won't run it. =)
[05:51] <jbailey> No elf64 support yet, coming soon. =)
[05:52] <fabbione> eheh
[05:53] <jbailey> In fact, doing it through the initramfs would be a nice proof.
[05:53] <jbailey> Although, hmm.  If it mounted the filesystem, I wonder what the problem really is.
[05:53] <jbailey> Are you raid or anything crazy like that?>
[05:53] <fabbione> nope
[05:53] <fabbione> plain disks
[05:54] <jbailey> fabbione: Cool, can you hop in, in "break" mode, and figure out why /root doesn't contain that new filesystem, even though it says you mounted one?
[05:55] <fabbione> jbailey: as it is now, silo/OBP is not allowing me to select anything at boot
[05:55] <fabbione> and i am trying to figure out why
[05:55] <jdub> mjg59: did you see that 100mbs irda stuff?
[05:55] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah
[05:55] <mjg59> No idea what needs doing to support it
[05:57] <jdub> probably driver foo
[05:59] <fabbione> jbailey: i have a bed feeling about all of this... and not only initramfs fault..
[05:59] <phlaegel> ok, so how do I enable usplash? dpkg-reconfigure on the kernel image doesn't work.
[05:59] <whiprush> n/win 11
[05:59] <whiprush> oops
[06:00] <jbailey> fabbione: Sure, but if you can get to a shell in the initramfs, life becomes happier... =)
[06:00] <fabbione> jbailey: dude... i have problems even to use the OBP
[06:00] <fabbione> the issue is a few layers before that
[06:01] <jbailey> Oh.
[06:01] <jbailey> suck
[06:01] <fabbione> it looks like something did fry badly
[06:02] <jdub> oh man
[06:02] <jdub> daniels: duuuude
[06:02] <jdub> daniels: "Not all X developers are entirely supportive of Jon's position. The administrator of freedesktop.org, where Jon's document is hosted, posted a dismissive response and promptly shut down Jon's account, making the document unavailable. It has since been restored, but that action (ostensibly taken for other reasons) added an unpleasant note to the debate."
[06:02] <jdub> ...!
[06:06] <mjg59> It's all a conspiracy
[06:08] <phlaegel> does usplash work with lilo?
[06:11] <mjg59> Yes
[06:11] <phlaegel> what do I have to do to enable it?
[06:12] <mjg59> Pass the splash argument on the kernel command line
[06:13] <phlaegel> I should be able to do that at the lilo prompt, right? I tried that and got nothing
[06:14] <mjg59> There's nothing in the code that cares in the slightest what bootloader you use
[06:14] <mjg59> As long as there's the splash argument, and as long as it's in the initrd, it ought to work
[06:15] <mjg59> Oh, and as long as you're not using vga=foo
[06:16] <phlaegel> I didn't thing bootloader would matter. but I've rebuilt the initrd, I'm not using vga=x, and passed splash, and nothing has worked...
[06:16] <phlaegel> *think
[06:19] <mjg59> phlaegel: No idea whatsoever, then
[06:24] <phlaegel> ok, adding it to append= works, but it's a bit messy :-)
[06:25] <mjg59> phlaegel: lilo is, in general
[06:25] <phlaegel> true
[06:46] <daniels> jdub: yes, jon has a flair for flat-out lying
[07:00] <daniels> jdub: (smirl, not corbet -- i have no issues with jon corbet, who was just presenting it as it was told him.)
[07:14] <mae> Breezy is starting to look _very_ nice
[07:50] <pef> morning
[08:15] <zyga> hello
[08:18] <jdub> mjg59: that splash i sent looks mighty fine
[08:18] <jdub> mjg59: what do you think about shifting the progress bar down the the bottom of the screen, say, 5px high
[08:18] <jdub> ?
[08:18] <jsgotangco> the black one?
[08:18] <jdub> sent a new revision to mjg for integration
[08:18] <jsgotangco> ahh
[08:44] <sabdfl> mdz: morning
[08:46] <jdub> morning sabdfl 
[08:46] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[08:47] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl 
[08:47] <sabdfl> moin moin guys
[08:54] <tritium> slomo, ping
[09:11] <tritium> jdub, per the community council meeting on the 30th, can you give thoreauputic, nalioth, and apokryphos access level 10 on #ubuntu when you get a chance?
[09:11] <bob2> apokryphos?
[09:11] <bob2> he/she doesn't seem *that* active
[09:11] <tritium> sabdfl gave him +1
[09:12] <bob2> why?
[09:12] <tritium> Not sure.  I wasn't there.  I was just talking to nalioth, and he mentioned it.
[09:12] <bob2> hrm
[09:12] <bob2> I should go to meetings
[09:12] <tritium> I'm viewing the irc logs now
[09:13] <tritium> bob2, right about 11:50 on the 30th is what I'm referring to
[09:13] <jdub> tritium: url/
[09:13] <jdub> ?
[09:14] <tritium> jdub, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-08-30.html
[09:14] <jdub> thanks
[09:14] <bob2> erk
[09:14] <tritium> thank you too
[09:15] <tritium> bob2, do you have reservations?
[09:17] <bob2> just don't see them around giving accurate advice that much
[09:17] <bob2> but meh
[09:17] <bob2> both seem quite nice, tho
[09:19] <tritium> yes
[09:19] <sabdfl> bob2: you're welcome to have ops too if you want
[09:19] <bob2> sabdfl: I do
[09:20] <bob2> (already)
[09:20] <bob2> and many days are the most active person there
[09:20] <sabdfl> both of you?
[09:20] <sabdfl> bob1 and bob2?
[09:21] <jdub> hrm, seveas is not around
[09:24] <Treenaks> jdub: he will be in a few minutes :)
[09:24] <bob2> bob1 still does svn stuff with perl
[09:24] <tritium> thanks, jdub
[09:24] <jdub> ok
[09:24] <jdub> i gave seveas level 29 access
[09:24] <jdub> but can't give him 30
[09:24] <jdub> which he needs to add opers
[09:25] <jdub> gar :|
[09:25] <Treenaks> jdub: I had that problem on -nl as well
[09:25] <jdub> freenode really is annoying these days
[09:25] <siretart> morning
[09:27] <siretart> bob2: around? any news about lyx?
[09:27] <tritium> bob2, sorry that I've been less active ever since my thesis defense.  I'm strictly forbidden from using IRC at work.
[09:31] <Keybuk> Diziet: interesting
[09:32] <Treenaks> seveas will be back around 13:00 UTC
[09:38] <sivang> Morning everybody!
[09:38] <Treenaks> hey sivang
[09:38] <sivang> hey Treenaks 
[09:39] <Treenaks> sivang: new language doesn't mean "new keyboard"
[09:39] <sivang> Treenaks: right :)
[09:39] <Treenaks> sivang: usually not
[09:41] <jdub> sivang: that'd be useful
[09:46] <sivang> jdub: maybe we could improve that for breezy+1 ;-) I'd all those people annoyed by not having the hebrew input support by default..
[09:47] <Treenaks> sivang: there's a keyboard chooser in the installer which should detect that
[09:47] <jdub> sivang: definitely worth a bug report :)
[09:48] <sivang> jdub: sure, I was trying to get confirmation for that, and I just did =)
[09:54] <tritium> slomo, no more kernel panics on iMac G5 with 20050831.1 install-powerpc64.  Any luck with the ibook?
[09:55] <sivang> jdub: did you test the CHRP imagens yest?
[09:55] <jdub> sivang: no, won't have access to hardware for a little while
[09:56] <jdub> visiting ibm on monday though, so may take a cd along
[09:59] <tritium> good night
[10:11] <seb128> Keybuk: so this wm crasher?
[10:12] <Keybuk> seb128: I see your point
[10:12] <Keybuk> it's been running under gdb for 24 hours now, and hasn't crashed yet
[10:12] <seb128> Keybuk: weird bug, isn't it :)
[10:13] <Lathiat_> yeh
[10:13] <Lathiat_> Keybuk: oh, tip:
[10:13] <Lathiat_> Keybuk: dont run that gdb session in your xsession ;p
[10:13] <Keybuk> Lathiat_: I know that :p  it's on vt1
[10:13] <Lathiat_> hell that even backfired on me once
[10:13] <Keybuk> seb128: other strange bug for you
[10:13] <Lathiat_> for some reason i couldnt switch vts
[10:13] <Keybuk> I don't seem to have an ssh-agent
[10:14] <Keybuk> it's _running_ but nothing has the environment for it
[10:14] <Keybuk> no, wait
[10:14] <Keybuk> I know
[10:15] <Keybuk> because I ran metacity in a vt, when it starts a terminal (by shortcut key), there's no ssh info in its environment
[10:15] <thesaltydog> New baobab version 1.1.0 is up on debian pool main since today. Will the new version be automatically synced in Breezy, or does it need some "human" interaction?
[10:15] <seb128> Keybuk: right
[10:15] <Lathiat_> thesaltydog: We are in upstream version freeze, unless theres a good reason it wont go in.
[10:15] <jdub> thesaltydog: automagic syncs stopped at UpstreamVersionFreeze
[10:15] <jdub> thesaltydog: you'll have to request a sync (after testing)
[10:16] <jdub> thesaltydog: since it's in universe, it'll probably go in
[10:16] <thesaltydog> jdub, with whom I have to speak?
[10:16] <jdub> thesaltydog: elmo
[10:16] <Treenaks> and mdz?
[10:16] <jdub> not for universe
[10:16] <Treenaks> oh right
[10:16] <thesaltydog> jdub, ok, I'll look for elmo. Thanks.
[10:16] <siretart> thesaltydog: is this universe?
[10:17] <thesaltydog> siretart, yes.
[10:17] <siretart> thesaltydog: why do you need the new version? which important bugs does the new release fix?
[10:17] <thesaltydog> siretart, no bugs. Just a big program enhancement. New features.
[10:18] <thesaltydog> siretart, I have added a full file-search capability, auto-monitoring of volumes and directory changes, etc..
[10:18] <siretart> thesaltydog: sorry. UVF is about stabilizing, and not letting new crack with potential bugs in. we need the time to fix existing bugs
[10:18] <Mithrandir> mvo: hmm, daily install didn't work; hung on untrusted packages question (about language-pack-no).  Just killing aptitude and letting it be restarted fixed the problem.
[10:18] <siretart> thesaltydog: I would therefore not approve the new version
[10:19] <thesaltydog> siretart, ok. Users will download the package from debian.
[10:19] <siretart> thesaltydog: hey, we are relasing in a few weeks, we can backport the package from breezy+1 to breezy after that
[10:19] <infinity> "few weeks"?
[10:19] <thesaltydog> siretart, ok.
[10:19] <Lathiat_> 6 or so now isnt it?
[10:20] <siretart> infinity: < 8 weeks is a "few" for me ;)
[10:20] <Mithrandir> mvo: and the update-notifier should probably have a busy mouse cursor while it's launching, as it is confusing the way it is now.
[10:21] <infinity> siretart : So, did you get assigned as the gateway for UVF exceptions in universe, then?
[10:21] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, is that not a gksu issue?
[10:21] <thesaltydog> siretart, but after release, the version update will be automatic or should I ask for?
[10:21] <siretart> infinity: actually, ogra is, but he has delegates, and yes, he appointed me as one of the delegates
[10:22] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: possibly.
[10:22] <infinity> siretart : Neat.  How do you feel about me updating php4 to the (now well-tested, given its age) 4.4.0 version in Debian?
[10:22] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, because in breezy gksudo is very slow
[10:22] <Lathiat_> its ok, only mum said no, you can  still go ask dad before mum tells dad she said no
[10:22] <infinity> siretart : It will require me rebuilding any out-of-tree extensions, but you know I have no issues with rebuilding stuff. :)
[10:23] <siretart> thesaltydog: not fully automatic, because we have diffs to the debian version. we have to merge new debian upstreams manually, but we will
[10:23] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: well, it should still show a progress thingy, since it takes a few seconds on a freshly installed XP2400+ system here.
[10:23] <thesaltydog> siretart, ok, thanks. Have a good day.
[10:23] <mvo> Mithrandir: the untrusted prompt in aptitude usually means that something went wrong before, e.g. a failed aptitude update
[10:24] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, yes it does
[10:24] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, there is a bug open for a the stupidly long wait time, just a sec
[10:24] <siretart> infinity: well, you are maintainer of php4, and know really more about the consequences of this upgrade. I should ask therefore you ;)
[10:24] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: not when launched from the update-notifier tray applet, it doesn't.
[10:24] <Mithrandir> mvo: hmm, I can do a new test install and see.
[10:24] <zyga> where is the language-selector template in rosetta?
[10:25] <infinity> siretart : Yes, but I don't want to just shove it in without approval from someone else.  If it was for main, I'd be asking mdz. :)
[10:25] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12183
[10:25] <mvo> Burgundavia: the stupid long wait comes from gksudo 
[10:25] <Burgundavia> mvo, yes
[10:26] <mvo> Mithrandir: that would be nice, also my daily-image should be heere soon too
[10:26] <fabbione> hey mvo
[10:26] <mvo> hey fabbione 
[10:26] <siretart> infinity: I don't know and don't use php4 that much, and would need to do some research about changes from 4.3 to 4.4. if you think we should have it in breezy because it fixes bugs and does not harm existing application, I'd trust you that you do the right thing.
[10:26] <fabbione> mvo: as i wrote to you.. gdb hangs..
[10:26] <fabbione> there is no backtrace
[10:27] <mvo> fabbione: yes, I got that message. what arch is that hang happening on?
[10:27] <fabbione> mvo: still sparc...
[10:27] <infinity> siretart : Alright.  I'll exercise my own judgement then.  First, I need to figure out why we still have a few bits from php4 hanging around in main instead of universe, though. :/
[10:27] <siretart> infinity: but rather talk to ogra about this, since as far as I know, he uses php4 for edubuntu
[10:27] <infinity> siretart : No, php5 is used for edubuntu.
[10:27] <infinity> siretart : And php5 is in main.
[10:27] <siretart> ah. I see.
[10:30] <infinity> Oh, feh.
[10:35] <zyga> mvo: where is the language selector package?
[10:37] <mvo> zyga: it's in my baz archive: michael.vogt@ubuntu.com--2005/language-selector--main--0
[10:38] <zyga> mvo: thanks, I was looking for it in rosetta but this will do fine :)
[10:38] <zyga> mvo: is your baz repo tla compatible?
[10:40] <mvo> zyga: I'm not sure, I just used the defaults
[10:42] <infinity> doko : Dude.  Is the gij-4.0 postinst supposed to segv, or am I just lucky?
[10:42] <Mithrandir> infinity: it's a feature. :-P
[10:43] <Mithrandir> doko: hmm, about ooo-mozilla-amd64 / 14434 ; could you please respond on that one?
[10:43] <infinity> Maybe if I'm lucky, it's the same GTK breakage I was seeing on my base system, and an upgrade will make it magically go away...
[10:43] <zyga> mvo: here? http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/arch/ubuntu/ 
[10:46] <doko> infinity: which architecture?
[10:47] <doko> Mithrandir: yes, thinko. should be closed.
[10:47] <infinity> i386
[10:47] <doko> infinity: does it? never seen ...
[10:47] <doko> infinity: it crashes on m68k, but you should be used to it ...
[10:48] <mvo> zyga: yes
[10:49] <pitti> Good morning
[10:50] <seb128> hey hey pitti
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: today I start later than you :) well, I got lost on my morning biking tour
[10:52] <seb128> pitti: bah, I've started around 8am but I'm away for ~1h now, go to swimm, that's good with this weather :)
[10:52] <mvo> doko: avm-isdn work fine with fritz-pci and pcmcia, well done
[10:52] <pitti> seb128: enjoy
[10:53] <zyga> mvo: expect pl.po as usual later during the day, thanks :)
[10:53] <infinity> doko : Hrm, a dist-upgrade didn't fix it.  Yay.
[10:53] <seb128> pitti: thanks :)
[10:53] <mvo> zyga: thank you
[10:55] <infinity> doko : Nevermind.  libgcj6 got corrupted somehow.  Feh.
[10:56] <doko> mvo: thanks for checking the pcmcia stuff!
[10:56] <Mithrandir> mvo: now it's hanging on language-support-en. :-/
[10:56] <Mithrandir> mvo: why on earth is really apt-cdrom used when it's all precopied?
[10:57] <jsgotangco> mine hangs as well
[10:57] <mvo> Mithrandir: the problem is that it's not precopied
[10:58] <jsgotangco> (today's build even)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> mvo: my file system seems to disagree with you.
[10:58] <zyga> mvo: viet nam it two words?
[10:58] <mvo> Mithrandir: I had that yesterday and /var/cache/apt/archives missed e.g. mozilla-locale-en
[10:58] <Mithrandir> at least, I have a /var/cache/apt/archives/language-support-en_20050818_all.deb
[10:58] <mvo> zyga: probably not
[10:59] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes, but you probably miss some dependencies of it
[10:59] <Mithrandir> mvo: hmm, 'k.
[10:59] <mvo> Mithrandir: could you please check that?
[10:59] <zyga> mvo: I'll fix it
[11:00] <mvo> Mithrandir: it's pretty anoying, I added support for kamion to detect media-change on the apt status-fd, but that's only a workaround, not a real fix
[11:00] <mvo> zyga: thanks
[11:00] <mvo> Mithrandir: do you think we could make archive-copier a bit smarter?
[11:01] <Mithrandir> mvo: that would be good, yes.  I think Kamion did some work on it last night, but it's either not on the CD or not smart enough.
[11:01] <zyga> mvo: hmm it actually might be two words... 
[11:02] <sivang> jdub: are you going to get the test suits, or going to sign the certification?
[11:02] <mvo> zyga: have you looked it up in dict?
[11:02] <doko> elmo, Kamion, mdz: please demote neon0.23 to universe, OOo1, which was the only user, is in universe now.
[11:03] <zyga> mvo: google
[11:03] <Mithrandir> mvo: all its dependencies are missing
[11:03] <zyga> and gnome-dict applet
[11:03] <mvo> Mithrandir: 'k
[11:03] <mvo> zyga: thanks
[11:03] <zyga> it's corect 
[11:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is archive-copier still dumb or not yet on the daily cd?
[11:07] <mvo> Mithrandir: the changelog indicates that it's clever now
[11:08] <Mithrandir> apparently not very. :-P
[11:11] <doko> pitti, seb128: are rosetta translations for gnome already imported into the language packs?
[11:12] <pitti> doko: nope, that still doesn't work
[11:13] <sivang> Treenaks: what's the package name for the lanuguage configurator?
[11:13] <pitti> sivang: language-selector
[11:13] <sivang> pitti: thanks, is it ubuntu specific?
[11:13] <pitti> sivang: yes, by now
[11:13] <pitti> sivang: since we are the only distro which has langpacks
[11:14] <sivang> pitti: :)
[11:14] <doko> infinity: please build maxdb-buildtools on amd64 and ia64
[11:14] <sivang> pitti: I saw it triggers installation of gnome lanugage packs as well, are those also ubuntu made?
[11:14] <pitti> ywp
[11:15] <pitti> yes, even
[11:16] <infinity> doko : It's only registered in wanna-build on i386.  I assume it's in Packages-arch-specific?
[11:16] <infinity> lucifer:~/build/dak/srcdep/> grep maxdb Packages-arch-specific
[11:16] <infinity> %libdbd-maxdb-perl: i386                                              # [ANAIS] 
[11:16] <infinity> %maxdb-7.5.00: i386 amd64 ia64                                        # [ANAIS] 
[11:16] <infinity> %maxdb-buildtools: i386                                               # [ANAIS] 
[11:17] <infinity> doko : Should libdbd-maxdb-perl and maxdb-buildtools both be updated to i386 amd64 ia64, then?
[11:17] <doko> Package: maxdb-buildtools
[11:17] <doko> Architecture: i386 amd64 ia64
[11:17] <doko> probably, ia64 and amd64 support was added some months before
[11:17] <doko> yes, and maxdb-7.5.00
[11:18] <infinity> doko : maxdb-7.5.00 is already okay, according to the above grep.
[11:18] <doko> fine
[11:18] <melodie> hello :)
[11:18] <infinity> doko : They'll build automagically after elmo sync P-a-s with Debian.
[11:19] <doko> infinity: they are built in Debian ...
[11:19] <melodie> I wanted to bring a news about Xorg, plus one question about next release version
[11:19] <infinity> doko : Must have been built by hand, then.
[11:19] <melodie> the new about xorg concerns the next release that will be about the same time as official Breezy
[11:20] <melodie> #
[11:20] <melodie> XX Oct 2005: X11R6.9/X11R7 Release
[11:20] <melodie> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/X11R6970ReleasePlan
[11:21] <infinity> elmo : Please sync the maxdb-related changes I just made to Debian's Packages-arch-specific
[11:21] <melodie> I thought it is intersting as I saw on the archieve ml the version discussed about is a 6.8
[11:21] <infinity> elmo : Also, yellow appears to be down. :/
[11:24] <sivang> pitti: so you had to make a distinction between console apps .po's and gnome apps ?
[11:24] <pitti> sivang: we split out gnome and KDE to properly support Kubuntu
[11:25] <melodie> someone could inform me about the very next after Colony 3 ? read about one that could come out on Sept 8 th (?)
[11:25] <melodie> I'd need the info for a doc I'm helping to, and do not find the info on the net again...
[11:26] <melodie> :)
[11:26] <pitti> melodie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[11:27] <melodie> oh thks!
[11:27] <pitti> melodie: Sept 8 is the preview release, but there will certainly be a colony 4 before
[11:27] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[11:27] <melodie> thank you pitti :)
[11:34] <zyga> hmm
[11:34] <zyga> I've just noticed that the keyboard driver in hoary is broken
[11:34] <Mithrandir> mjg59: did you see the post about "swap space manager" on debian-devel three weeks ago?  Would it be possible to get resume from swapfiles working?
[11:34] <zyga> I'm not sure which part but I cannot enter polish capital letters correctly
[11:35] <zyga> shift + alt + l = 
[11:35] <zyga> but in only works when I do
[11:35] <zyga> caps lock
[11:35] <zyga> alt + l 
[11:35] <zyga> shift + alt + l = L (no / across)
[11:35] <Mithrandir>  works for me.
[11:35] <zyga> I'd like to file a bug but I'm not sure to which pachage
[11:35] <zyga> hmm
[11:35] <Mithrandir> as in shift-alt or alt-shift
[11:36] <Mithrandir> this is in a norwegian layout, though.
[11:36] <zyga> maybe it's locale dependent?
[11:36] <zyga> hmm no wait !
[11:36] <zyga> it's even stranger
[11:36] <zyga> it works in x-chat but fails to work in gnome-terminal
[11:36] <zyga> my locale is pl_PL.UTF-8
[11:37] <jdub> jsgotangco: i think your style guide announcement would be more appropriate on ubuntu-news
[11:37] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:37] <jsgotangco> jdub, sorry about that, will push it there next time
[11:42] <sivang> hey jsgotangco 
[11:43] <siretart> infinity: in -motu we just talked about php 4.4: < ogra_> siretart, see php updates as generally granted ;)
[11:43] <siretart> infinity: I think this is what you wanted to hear ;)
[11:43] <HiddenWolf> seb128, could you read 14323, I think gtk is not playing nice.
[11:44] <jsgotangco> sivang, hi!!!
[11:46] <melodie> a nice day to all, till next time :)
[11:46] <melodie> bye-bye
[11:49] <mvo> seb128: has your SoC student compelted the work on the "can-this-user-do-sudo" program/script?
[11:51] <sivang> jsgotangco: whassup? :)
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, I'm getting [failed]  messages for 'configuring network' en 'syncronising to ntp' during init, but my network works just fine, regular dhcp.
[11:55] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: and why do you ask me?
[11:56] <ogra> Kamion, did you get my mail about the edubuntu seeds ? 
[11:56] <infinity> siretart, ogra : Thanks.  I'll wait until I get all of php4 completely shoved out of main (a few packages still accidentally depended on it) before I go syncing with Debian.
[11:57] <Lathiat_> Does anyone know the story with libxp?
[11:59] <fabbione> anyway i must go offline
[11:59] <fabbione> i don't feel good at all
[11:59] <mvo> get well fabbione 
[12:01] <fabbione> cya
[12:08] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, you just oploaded dhcp did you? :)
[12:09] <Diziet> dpkg's build system is on crack.
[12:09] <Diziet> ../../src/archives.c:320: error: 'nifd' undeclared (first use in this function)
[12:09] <Diziet> ...
[12:09] <Diziet> touch build-tree/build-stamp
[12:09] <Diziet> -anarres:dpkg-1.13.11> echo $?
[12:09] <Diziet> 0
[12:09] <daniels> Diziet: *SHOCK*
[12:11] <pitti> Hi jdthood 
[12:11] <jdthood> hi ho
[12:14] <sabdfl> hey pitti
[12:19] <Keybuk> Diziet: so your idea is to never remove conffiles from status & list even after the package has removed them -- and just record them as obsolete.
[12:22] <Diziet> Yes.
[12:23] <Diziet> They'd disappear from status and list if some other package took them over.  Otherwise they'd stay on the disk and in dpkg's records.
[12:23] <Keybuk> this means that if the conffile turns up again, either in the package or another one, we have the md5sum it used to be
[12:25] <Keybuk> right?
[12:26] <Diziet> Right.
[12:26] <Diziet> The only downside is that if (for example) the obsolete file is part of an package which ends up in state config-files, the user might purge it.
[12:26] <Diziet> If the file really is obsolete then it gets deleted, which is right.
[12:26] <Diziet> But the file might not be obsolete; it might be script-handled by the new package.
[12:27] <Diziet> But who goes around purging old obsolete packages, anyway ?
[12:27] <Mithrandir> *hand*
[12:27] <Mithrandir> :-P
[12:27] <Keybuk> _o/
[12:27] <jsgotangco> bye
[12:28] <Keybuk> that kind of thing happens a lot, usually when someone takes a perfectly sane "postgresql" package and turns it into "postgresql-7.4"
[12:29] <Keybuk> (or bind -> bind8 + bind9 )
[12:29] <Diziet> Indeed so.
[12:29] <Keybuk> people purge the old one, and they'd lose the config files for the new one
[12:29] <Keybuk> I guess it'd be safer to just not remove obsolete files on purge
[12:29] <Mithrandir> which makes them angry.
[12:29] <daniels> the semantics I would expect would be that dpkg keeps a conffile record around while the package still exists
[12:29] <daniels> s/package/file/
[12:29] <daniels> so, if /etc/X11/rgb.txt is owned and xorg-common gets removed (non-purge), the record stays
[12:29] <Keybuk> which is the current behaviour, it's still sucky, but it least it breaks in known ways
[12:30] <daniels> if xrgb gets installed and starts providing /etc/X11/rgb.txt, I would expect that the conffile record get removed from xorg-common and move to xrgb
[12:30] <daniels> if xrgb gets purged, I would expect that the conffile record disappears
[12:30] <Keybuk> daniels: right.
[12:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: how hard would it be to add dynamic registration and unregistration of files?
[12:30] <Diziet> keybuk: The file only gets wrongly removed on purge if the file went from conffile to script-maintained in the same upgrade as it changed packages.
[12:30] <Keybuk> why the same upgrade?
[12:30] <pitti> Keybuk: the postgresql 7.5 upgrade package will clean up, btw
[12:30] <Diziet> Err, no, I'm wrong: also if it went to script-maintained before it changed packages.
[12:30] <Keybuk> wouldn't it happen at any point before?
[12:30] <pitti> Keybuk: s/upgrade/transition/
[12:31] <Keybuk> xorg-common ships /etc/X11/rgb.txt as a conffile
[12:31] <Keybuk> then in an update, turns it into script-managed
[12:31] <Keybuk> and then xrgb ships it as a script-managed file
[12:31] <Keybuk> xorg-common gets purged (maybe we're using something else) ... it'd take /etc/X11/rgb.txt with it
[12:31] <Keybuk> pitti: you know I just love to pick on you <g>
[12:31] <Diziet> keybuk: Exactly the problem case, yes.
[12:31] <daniels> how about you don't purge it if the md5sum is different
[12:32] <daniels> or, at least, prompt on purge if the md5sum is different
[12:32] <pitti> Keybuk: sure :-) I'm glad to be useful as bad example :-)
[12:32] <Diziet> That doesn't help.  The maintainer scripts might have carefully avoided touching the file.
[12:32] <Keybuk> daniels: still doesn't help ... it might just be not different
[12:32] <daniels> Keybuk: *shrug*, 'you get what you deserve'
[12:32] <Diziet> One option would be just not to delete the file on purge - just forget about it.
[12:32] <Keybuk> that option certainly doesn't change anything
[12:32] <daniels> Diziet: so then what does purge have over remove?
[12:33] <Keybuk> we don't delete obsolete conffiles now
[12:33] <pitti> daniels: prompting would be so evil - when I say "purge", I usually mean it...
[12:33] <Keybuk> daniels: this is only about obsolete conffiles -- things that were conffiles once, but aren't anymore
[12:33] <Diziet> In the future there should be a way for a package to say `this used to be a conffile and now it's known to be obsolete'.
[12:33] <daniels> pitti: beats prompts on upgrades
[12:33] <daniels> Keybuk: so how do you know they've changed hands?
[12:33] <Keybuk> we don't
[12:33] <pitti> daniels: right, but it's still evil...
[12:33] <daniels> Keybuk: i.e. if, as you say, xrgb ships rgb.txt from postinst, rather than as a conffile
[12:33] <daniels> Keybuk: so you have no way to separate the cases of orphaned, and 'obsolete'
[12:33] <infinity> script-generated files aren't currently owned by anyone, so nothng really changes there if you just mark it obsolete.
[12:34] <Mithrandir> daniels: it'd work fine if you could register and unregister conffiles in a postinst.
[12:34] <infinity> Unless we grow some way to take ownership of generated files.
[12:34] <Mithrandir> we kinda want that anyway, don't we?
[12:35] <Keybuk> additional file registration is planned, but it's a while off
[12:36] <infinity> It shouldn't be terribly difficult, why "a while off"?
[12:36] <Keybuk> because I have a day job? :p
[12:37] <infinity> So make a case for this dpkg functionality being a killer required feature for breez+1. :)
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: so it's more "patches accepted"?
[12:37] <Diziet> inf: `shouldn't be terribly difficult'> dpkg has to cope with an awful lot of shit.  It's about 60% error handling and half of the remainder is edge cases.
[12:39] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm vaguely trying to avoid getting dpkg development driven by Ubuntu because Mark wants different things than Debian
[12:39] <infinity> Good point.
[12:39] <Keybuk> which isn't a bad thing, but I like to keep the boxes separate
[12:40] <lifeless> big box little box, big box little box
[12:42] <daniels> is it bigger than a bread box?
[12:44] <Keybuk> it's bigger than a baby's arm
[12:48] <Mithrandir> we should have a "bug closed due to submitter vanishing off the face of the earth" resolution type in bugzilla
[12:48] <Lathiat_> WONTFIX, SUBMITTERVANISHED
[12:48] <infinity> close -> HITBYBUS
[12:48] <infinity> (That string really should allow free-form entry)
[12:49] <jdthood> In the meantime, should one use "INVALID"?
[12:49] <infinity> mdz : Permission to unseed pike7.6-doc from supported?... It's the only thing holding pike7.6 in main, from my reading of germinate output.
[12:50] <infinity> Well, being hit by a bus could make the submitter and invalid, so that would work.
[12:50] <infinity> s/and in/an in/
[12:50] <daniels> ba-doom-CSSH
[12:50] <jdthood> infinity: good 'un
[12:51] <daniels> get ready for lots of X hilarity this evening.  would be nice to get as much testing as possible before preview release, so get your breezy boxes all up to date and ready to be brok^W^Wtest.
[12:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's *supposed* to be cleverer now, but the .0 on the version number indicates general untestedness
[12:51] <Lathiat_> daniels: whatcha doing?
[12:52] <daniels> Lathiat_: modular server.
[12:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'll poke at it once the ISOs sync down, or if you want to have a look, edit archive-copier.postinst to remove the rm -rf of the working directory
[12:52] <Lathiat_> daniels: btw, any idea fi that synaptics update had the fix for "double tapping" on alps touchpads? (e.g. being able to dobule tap and drag to do a selection)
[12:52] <daniels> Lathiat_: from looking at the changelog, it appears to have, yes
[12:52] <Lathiat_> thanks
[12:54] <Mithrandir> Kamion: wamerican seems to be missing still
[12:54] <Mithrandir> (for instance)
[12:54] <Mithrandir> from the to-copy file
[12:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: check whether it's got Task: .*language-support-en?
[12:56] <infinity> Kamion : Oh hey, now that you're back, are you playing RM again?
[12:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: looks like it.
[12:56] <Kamion> infinity: er, depends how hard the question is
[12:56] <infinity> Kamion : If so, see my question to mdz above about pike7.6-doc. :)
[12:56] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, got it, just haven't had time to sit down and parse it yet
[12:57] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu.seed seems not to be the default....
[12:57] <Kamion> infinity: yes, go ahead and unseed it
[12:57] <ogra> i dont see any options set in there (i.e. the hostname)
[12:57] <Kamion> ogra: I'll deal with your mail later today, I promise
[12:58] <ogra> Kamion, thanks....
[01:00] <infinity> Kamion : Also, with recent archive changes, it looks like the remainder of php4 crap can finally leave main for universe.  Do you feel like doing the ftp-masterish things required to make that happen?
[01:00] <infinity> Kamion : (that includes the php4 source, yay)
[01:00] <pitti> \o/
[01:02] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:~$ sudo -u katie katie/anastacia | grep php4
[01:02] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:~$
[01:03] <infinity> Is that cron driven?
[01:03] <Kamion> unless the changes postdate the most recent cron.sync (nine hours ago or so)?
[01:03] <infinity> Yeah, I just re-germinated locally a few minutes ago. :)
[01:03] <infinity> The changes are maybe an hour old.
[01:03] <Kamion> ah, ok, I'll rerun cron.sync after this cron.daily
[01:04] <infinity> This sync should allow you to demote both php4 and pike7.6
[01:04] <siretart> Lathiat_: what is it with libxp?
[01:04] <Lathiat_> siretart: just that various things (say, firefox (external builds)) are linked to it so nto having a copy is a bit of a pain
[01:05] <siretart> Lathiat_: external builds are not supported, are they? ;)
[01:05] <Lathiat_> no, just wonderign why it went really
[01:05] <siretart> Lathiat_: nevertheless, the blackdown java jre's are also linked to it, which is imo more pain
[01:05] <Lathiat_> indeed
[01:06] <infinity> Because xprint is evil, and we're ridding the world of it.
[01:06] <Lathiat_> and im sure many other things are too
[01:06] <siretart> Lathiat_: I therefore packaged and uploaded it. so you find it in universe
[01:06] <Lathiat_> siretart: ah, ok
[01:06] <pitti> elmo: drupal sync, please
[01:07] <siretart> pitti: have you any other questions about firefox security irw tabextensions?
[01:07] <infinity> Kamion : Erm, pike seed change just went in now, I had GPG prompting for a passphrase in the background... La la...
[01:07] <pitti> siretart: no, your explanation was good, I just didn't check it yet again
[01:07] <siretart> okay
[01:08] <siretart> pitti: do you happen to know what is it with the printing issue?
[01:08] <siretart> is it just some weird lib causing the segfaults or is the bug in firefox?
[01:08] <pitti> no idea
[01:09] <pitti> in breezy?
[01:09] <siretart> in hoary/security
[01:09] <siretart> there is a bugzilla report about this
[01:10] <siretart> #12965
[01:14] <Lathiat_> mjg59: setting up general console font seems to fail with usplash active
[01:14] <pitti> elmo: osh sync, pleas
[01:14] <Lathiat_> e
[01:14] <pitti> yes, thanks :-)
[01:14] <Lathiat_> ;p
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: php4-cgi php4-cli php4-common php4-dev pike7.6 pike7.6-core pike7.6-dev pike7.6-gdbm pike7.6-image binaries plus php4 source demoted
[01:17] <pitti> chmj: can you please check that http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bluez/utils/hcid/security.c?r1=1.36&r2=1.34&diff_format=u is applied in bluez-utils as  well?
[01:17] <Mithrandir> hm
[01:17] <Mithrandir> update-notifier in upper left corner
[01:18] <Lathiat_> daniels: oh yeh
[01:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, the notification or the whole icon ? 
[01:18] <Lathiat_> daniels: new synaptics totally screwed my alps
[01:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: the notification.
[01:18] <Lathiat_> daniels: its now *very* unsensitive moving wise, and if i double tap and move, the cursor moves in the wrong direction
[01:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, i have the notification left as well sometimes
[01:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: sounds like a bug
[01:19] <ogra> Mithrandir, i guess it needs a little delay until the notification icon is there
[01:19] <infinity> Kamion : pike7.6 source as well, or did something keep it in?
[01:19] <ogra> Mithrandir, yup
[01:19] <Mithrandir> ogra: care to file the bug, or should I?
[01:19] <chmj> pitti: ok, still waiting for mdz to approve UVFE
[01:19] <pitti> chmj: why? why not just apply the patch?
[01:19] <ogra> i can... i'm looking at boring compiler runs anyway
[01:19] <Mithrandir> ogra: great, thanks
[01:21] <chmj> pitti: the new version has more fixes including d-bus and memory allocation bug 
[01:23] <ogra> #14479 for mvo :)
[01:23] <Kamion> infinity: apparently something's keeping it in
[01:23] <infinity> Kamion : Hrm.  germinate seems to say it can go.
[01:24] <infinity> Kamion : I guess I'll need elmo for this, then?
[01:24] <infinity> Kamion : (No big deal, since elmo was the one adamant about removing pike in the first place)
[01:25] <Kamion> infinity: oh, I might have run cron.sync before your seed change
[01:28] <daniels> Lathiat_: sigh
[01:28] <Lathiat_> daniels: sorry to spoil your day
[01:28] <daniels> Lathiat_: ha ha ha ha ha
[01:28] <Kamion> infinity: you'll need to merge that change to kubuntu and edubuntu as well
[01:29] <Lathiat_> daniels: ;p
[01:29] <Kamion> infinity: want me to do that? I have all the trees handy
[01:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the problem with your language-support code in archive-copier seems to be that since one of the langpacks isn't available, it won't try any of the other ones.
[01:29] <sabdfl> Kamion: quick question on cd building, related to the xubuntu community request
[01:29] <sabdfl>  - can we build cd's that depend on universe packages
[01:29] <Riddell> we really should have a desktop-common seed so these things don't need to be syned so much
[01:30] <infinity> Kamion : Yeah, please.  Not sure why they aren't all subdirectories of the one seeds archive. :/
[01:30] <sabdfl>  - would it take a lot of your time to build those as well?
[01:30] <Kamion> sabdfl: I've just been talking to jdub about that
[01:30] <sabdfl> they would be unofficial, published but not supported
[01:31] <Kamion> sabdfl: a number of changes are required; firstly fairly trivial though slightly time-consuming stuff with hardcoded component names in various places; secondly I really don't want regular CD builds to have access to universe because not having universe packages on disk is a really useful guarantee that they can't be used for Ubuntu CD builds
[01:32] <Kamion> sabdfl: however the latter can probably be worked around by having a second archive mirror, assuming the disk space issues there aren't prohibitive
[01:32] <Kamion> sabdfl: apart from that it's probably about a day of work to set up
[01:33] <Lathiat_> pitti: iirc you had a list of security notices applying to universe stuff that werent looked at?
[01:33] <Kamion> sabdfl: I'm slightly concerned about resource usage on little, because it's beginning to get to the point where all the regular cron jobs are impeding our ability to do manual builds when we're in a hurry
[01:33] <Kamion> sabdfl: if it's a one-off before CD building moves to launchpad, I'm fine with it
[01:34] <mvo> ogra: do you have a screenshot? 
[01:34] <pitti> Lathiat_: yes: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html has all unfixed issues sorted by release and suite
[01:34] <Lathiat_> pitti: is anyone working on universe security?
[01:34] <Kamion> sabdfl: definitely *post*-preview would be nice though ;)
[01:34] <pitti> Lathiat_: in the past, yes, but not right now
[01:34] <pitti> Lathiat_: therefore a huge pile has accumulated
[01:35] <ogra> mvo, nope, and thats hard..... because the desktop is starting up at this moment...
[01:35] <ogra> mvo, it doesnt occur every time
[01:35] <ogra> and it doesnt occur in xnest...
[01:36] <ogra> mvo, basicall the popup is shwn directly below the main menu (on the left) while the panel isnt populated with anything
[01:36] <mvo> ogra: hm, ok. there is already a small delay, I can increase it a bit. what HW is that? your amd64 notebook?
[01:37] <ogra> and my ltsp testserver (i686 900Mhz, 256MB)
[01:37] <ogra> mvo, how small is the delay ?
[01:37] <mvo> ogra: ~0,5s-1s
[01:38] <ogra> heh, make it 5 or 10 sec...
[01:38] <Kamion> ogra: I don't understand the point of edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--breezy--0--patch-25; it seems actively counterproductive
[01:40] <Kamion> using metapackages in seeds in order to pull in other seeds makes the relationship between seeds and metapackages unpleasantly circular
[01:40] <Kamion> and unstable
[01:40] <slomo> mdz: hm... the ffmpeg source package is still in main... for binary packages: ffmpeg in universe, libpostproc-dev in multiverse, libavcodec-dev in universe...
[01:40] <Kamion> slomo: it's on the schedule for demotion
[01:40] <ogra> Kamion, ah, that is adding edubuntu-server to ship ? 
[01:41] <slomo> Kamion: ok, but nothing is holding it back?
[01:41] <ogra> Kamion, how do i get edubuntu-server on the CD ? mdz said he doesnt know and that seemed the only method that worked
[01:42] <jdub> Kamion, sabdfl: i think i can keep post-preview implementation of install/livecd builds sounding exciting, shouldn't be a problem
[01:44] <Kamion> ogra: the metapackages are generated from seeds, so using the metapackages *in* seeds gets pretty nasty. I'll have a look
[01:44] <Kamion> slomo: nope
[01:46] <sabdfl> Kamion: +1 on a second archive mirror for building non-official cd images
[01:46] <Kamion> slomo: I've demoted it now
[01:46] <ogra> Kamion, i think i should have a little germinate/seeds and CD buildscripts class given by you if the schedule permits it... there was nobody who could help me the last month... we need to spread the knowledge a bit :)
[01:46] <ogra> Kamion, i.e. after release....
[01:46] <Kamion> yeah, I think I'll do something at UBZ
[01:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: uhm, archive-copier doesn't seem to actually copy the .debs?
[01:46] <ogra> yeah
[01:46] <sabdfl> Kamion: +1 on post-preview
[01:47] <Kamion> Mithrandir: just looking now ... I could easily have broken it
[01:47] <Kamion> ogra: I think it should just be a matter of educating cdimage about edubuntu seeds
[01:48] <ogra> Kamion, yes, and i dont know how to do that :)
[01:48] <sabdfl> jdub: they should keep banging on the packages as fast as possible
[01:48] <sabdfl> not wait for the cd builds
[01:48] <slomo> Kamion: thanks :)
[01:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sorry, I'm blind.
[01:49] <Kamion> ogra: right; fortunately I do :)
[01:49] <ogra> :)
[01:49] <Kamion> cdimage/bin/list-seeds is a bit unpleasant
[01:49] <ogra> where would i find that dir ? 
[01:50] <Kamion> colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0
[01:50] <Kamion> I've just modified it to add server to edubuntu install CDs
[01:50] <ogra> ah, ok
[01:50] <ogra> ok, i'll change the ship seed back then
[01:50] <Kamion> ok, and the STRUCTURE file
[01:50] <Kamion> thanks
[01:51] <ogra> no, thanks to you.... :)
[01:51] <ogra> Kamion, i felt quite lost the last weeks, feels good to have you around again
[01:53] <jdub> sabdfl: the packages are all good :)
[01:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's copying wamerican to /var/cache/archive-copier/ship/ here
[01:58] <Mithrandir> *sigh*; the cd I have is with an old archive-copier. :-(
[01:59] <Mithrandir> argle.
[01:59] <Kamion> ah
[01:59] <Mithrandir> I suck
[02:00] <Kamion> you must've rsynced before the CD build happened
[02:00] <Mithrandir> isn't that supposed to happen at like 0600 UTC or so?
[02:00] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/cdimage>$ grep ' ubuntu cron.daily$' etc/crontab
[02:00] <Kamion> 21 8 * * *      for-project ubuntu cron.daily
[02:01] <Kamion> usually finishes at 0920 or so
[02:01] <Mithrandir> what TZ is that?  UTC?
[02:01] <Kamion> London
[02:01] <Kamion> datacentre time, IOW
[02:01] <Mithrandir> hm, I thought I synced a little later than that, but I can't have.
[02:01] <Mithrandir> oh well.
[02:06] <sivang> mpt: morning
[02:06] <mpt> hi sivang
[02:06] <sivang> mpt: how are you? are you in for a UI usability question? ;)
[02:06] <mpt> sure, usability questions 'r us
[02:07] <sivang> mpt: lol
[02:07] <sivang> mpt: right click the panle context menu, do you the lpi items there?
[02:08] <mpt> sivang: No, I'd expect them to go in the same menu the "Help" item is in currently
[02:08] <mpt> i.e. in Breezy, "System"
[02:09] <mpt> to be consistent with other apps
[02:09] <slomo> Kamion: can you also demote the following packages to multiverse (they are the ones holding ffmpeg/libavcodec-dev in universe) and have no other packages depending on them: gem, gnusound, lynkeos.app, motion, opencv, smilutils
[02:09] <Kamion> slomo: this stuff all shows up automatically; see http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[02:10] <Kamion> there is generally no need to explicitly tell me/others about them
[02:10] <Kamion> oh, sorry, you said multiverse. are the licences non-free?
[02:11] <Kamion> I prefer not to touch the universe/multiverse distinction; talk to elmo about that
[02:11] <slomo> Kamion: no but ffmpeg has support for some "funny" formats with ugly patents
[02:11] <slomo> Kamion: ok, i'll do
[02:12] <Mithrandir> hm, is usplash supposed to have a white border?
[02:12] <slomo> elmo: do you have some minutes for me? ;) i want to move some stuff from universe to multiverse
[02:13] <mpt> sivang: is that ok?
[02:14] <jbailey> Mithrandir: mjg59 said that was being fixed.
[02:14] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Colour #1 in the pallette is currently white, so things just need reorganising.
[02:15] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok
[02:15] <tepsipakki> does /etc/init.d/pppd-dns and dns-clean do the same thing?
[02:15] <Mithrandir> jbailey: uhm, aren't you supposed to write american english, not british english?
[02:16] <infinity> Mithrandir : Well, no, he's not American.
[02:16] <Mithrandir> infinity: canadian, close enough.
[02:16] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Shouldn't you be off celebrating Oktoberfest or something?
[02:16] <sladen> Mithrandir: he comes from Canadia, they seem to speak a strange combination of 19th century French and Victorian English
[02:17] <Mithrandir> jbailey: is that already?  We usually don't have that here until it actually _is_ october.. :-P
[02:17] <jbailey> (I figure the distance between Canada and the US is about the same as .no and .de... *g*)
[02:17] <daniels> sladen comes from Cambridge, they seem to speak a strange combination of 19th century French and German
[02:17] <jbailey> Mithrandir: In seriousness, Webster's destruction of the English language wasn't even intended for non-American audiences.
[02:17] <jbailey> s/even/ever/ afaik.
[02:17] <sladen> feh, I come from Nottingham and Robin Hood wouldn't be seen dead speaking the Queen's English
[02:18] <jbailey> It's turned into a standard language, but at the time, it happened largely because he was writing the dictionary, AFAIK.
[02:18] <Mithrandir> It has been observed that most people don't speak English while dead.
[02:18] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Get a better seer. =)
[02:18] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ook
[02:18] <sladen> :)
[02:18] <jdub> sladen: see r-t or d-d-l lists
[02:19] <sladen> jdub: can you remember which month?
[02:20] <jdub> last
[02:20] <jdub> look for baton
[02:21] <slomo> jbailey: hi ;) i'm back to 2.6.12-3-powerpc on my ibook :P do you think we get this fixed somehow for breezy?
[02:22] <jbailey> slomo: One can hope.  But given that your initramfs appears to be correct, I can only ask the kernel folks what's going on.
[02:22] <jbailey> I need an error message.
[02:22] <slomo> jbailey: do we have someone i can talk to who knows everything about the ppc kernel? ;)
[02:22] <slomo> jbailey: sure... wait a moment
[02:22] <sladen> jdub: "baton" was the word, ta!
[02:22] <jbailey> Is the bug in bugzilla?  If yes, what number, I should add myself to the cc: list.
[02:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: there does still seem to be something wrong, though
[02:23] <slomo> jbailey: no, i haven't done a bugreport yet... most of my problems are solved faster in irc ;)
[02:24] <jbailey> Right.  But with this one in bugzilla, it'll get better attention.
[02:24] <slomo> jbailey: ok, i'll create one :) i have nothing todo anyway until elmo responds ;)
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: so you'd like me to do a test install and poke at it?  I can do that, but if not, I'll see if x86emu wants to play ball with me today.
[02:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we can race, if you like - I'm poking at it at the moment
[02:25] <Lathiat_> whos the person who looks after hoary-backports?
[02:26] <ogra> Lathiat_, MEZ
[02:26] <Lathiat_> got an email?
[02:26] <Lathiat_> want to look at getting some security stuff looked at
[02:26] <slomo> jbailey: what package? linux-meta?
[02:27] <pitti> Lathiat_: parse error
[02:27] <Lathiat_> pitti: heh, security, backports? ;p
[02:28] <ogra> Lathiat_, <martin@sourceguru.net> or <ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com>
[02:28] <pitti> Lathiat_: ah, this was for Mez, I see
[02:28] <Lathiat_> ogra: thanks
[02:28] <jbailey> slomo: Even against initramfs-tools for now.
[02:28] <jbailey> slomo: I can take care of getting it assigned and such correctly.
[02:30] <Mitario> mako, ping
[02:31] <hub> hi
[02:31] <hub> is it me or my breezy upgrade is sort of broken
[02:31] <hub> I don't have any icon displayed
[02:31] <pitti> hub: occurred to me, too; I changed to the default theme to fix it
[02:31] <ogra> hub, we sell them sparately now... as add ons ;)
[02:32] <hub> ah
[02:32] <hub> that does the job
[02:32] <hub> pitti: thanks for the tipe
[02:32] <ogra> hub, which icon theme did you use before ? 
[02:33] <Lathiat_> f**k i just got a metacity crash and i didnt have gdb running on it
[02:33] <hub> clearlooks
[02:33] <hub> and now clearlooks
[02:33] <ogra> hub, icon theme ? 
[02:34] <hub> ogra: I just selected the gnome theme clearlooks
[02:34] <ogra> ah...
[02:34] <hub> and all that was with it
[02:34] <pitti> Lathiat_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/packages/crashrep/  :-)
[02:34] <hub> ogra: so it messed the icons I'd say, but now it works
[02:34] <seb128> hub, pitti: they dropped the clearlooks icon theme when they moved it to gnome-themes
[02:34] <Lathiat_> pitti: wassat do?
[02:34] <pitti> seb128: will that be an issue for hoary upgrades or just break intra-breezy ones?
[02:35] <hub> seb128: ah, make sense
[02:35] <slomo> jbailey: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14485
[02:35] <pitti> Lathiat_: that's my alpha-demo-snapshot crash reporting agent
[02:35] <pitti> Lathiat_: install the two debs, and on every segfault you will get a report in /tmp/crashrep.application.*
[02:35] <pitti> Lathiat_: it also tries to get a stacktrace
[02:35] <ogra> pitti, we'll just have to set a default icon theme for clearlooks then... seb128 shouldnt that automatically fall back to gnome if its missing ?
[02:35] <seb128> pitti: likely to be an issue for people using clearlooks
[02:35] <Lathiat_> pitti: ooh
[02:36] <hub> ah well
[02:36] <pitti> Lathiat_: prototype for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports
[02:36] <hub> so it is sort of a bug
[02:36] <ogra> seb128, i thought the theme selector cares for such occurences
[02:36] <pitti> Lathiat_: I just did not get very far (GUI stuff and so on)
[02:36] <Lathiat_> ahah it just crashed again
[02:36] <seb128> /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks/index.theme is to change probably
[02:36] <pitti> seb128: many people will do that 
[02:36] <Lathiat_> but, it seems it didnt build with debug symbols
[02:36] <Lathiat_> doh
[02:37] <seb128> pitti: I know, you are welcome to fix it, I've too many bugs to tackle everything alone
[02:37] <ogra> seb128, i'll do... i have to do some accumulated artwork stuff anyway over the weekend
[02:37] <seb128> thanks
[02:37] <ogra> :)
[02:37] <seb128> pitti: clearlooks is the not the default theme though, human doesn't have this issue
[02:38] <seb128> "IconTheme=gnome"
[02:38] <seb128> hum, the index.theme has it
[02:38] <hub> I don't like "human" colors
[02:38] <hub> but that is just me
[02:39] <ogra> btw, shouldnt we set our Human defaults in /usr/share/gconf/cdd.defaults ?
[02:39] <ogra> i think its not done currently
[02:39] <seb128> we don't use cdd atm afaik
[02:39] <ogra> seb128, edubuntu does :)
[02:39] <seb128> right, but that probably makes sense to use the libgnome patch as Ubuntu
[02:40] <seb128> rather than unpatching libgnome to change the cdd then
[02:41] <ogra> yup
[02:43] <Lathiat_> is building DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip the right thign to do to get a package with debuggign symbols?
[02:43] <Lathiat_> and woudl work with cdbs stuff?
[02:43] <seb128> usually it work yeah
[02:43] <Lathiat_> hrm, didnt seem to work on metacity
[02:43] <seb128> works fine for GNOME packages
[02:43] <seb128> you can use noopt too
[02:44] <seb128> it does
[02:44] <seb128> I've used it yesterday
[02:44] <Lathiat_> does it not work with debuild vs dpkg-byuildpackage or something?
[02:45] <Mithrandir> debuild might be stripping DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
[02:45] <seb128> I use debuild and it works fine
[02:45] <Lathiat_> hrm, well i'll rebuild adn see what happens
[02:46] <jdub> mjg59: oh. dude.
[02:46] <jdub> http://www.popies.net/ams/
[02:46] <jdub> http://www.kernelthread.com/software/ams2hid/
[02:46] <jdub> :-)
[02:46] <jdub> http://wingolog.org/pub/gdbinit <- rad!
[02:46] <Lathiat_> haha
[02:46] <Treenaks> jdub: is that like rml's IBM motion sensor crack?
[02:46] <Kamion> debuild isn't supposed to strip DEB_*
[02:46] <ogra> YIPPIE
[02:47] <Treenaks> ogra: !?
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: deuglified again?
[02:47] <Lathiat_> http://www.atoker.com/tmp/protection.png 
[02:47] <ogra> pitti, long ago
[02:47] <Treenaks> Lathiat_: ! :)
[02:47] <Robot101> Lathiat_: lol
[02:48] <Lathiat_> hehe, alp posted that into #gnome-hackers the other day, had much class :)
[02:48] <ogra> but a requirement for the upload was that i get it to respect LTSP_CLIENT which only worked until the first unlock attempt
[02:48] <ogra> i just found the function that respawns the hack...
[02:48] <ogra> and it works :)
[02:49] <Lathiat_> yay
[02:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: what's the failure you're seeing?  It looks good to me?
[02:50] <jdub> jbailey: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14477
[02:50] <jdub> jbailey: is that very kernel or very initramfs?
[02:50] <zul> i think very initramfs
[02:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: w{american,british}.deb at least seem to be getting removed from /var/cache/apt/archives/ after base-config moves them in there
[02:51] <Kamion> I don't understand why
[02:51] <Kamion> oh, plus I get a dictionaries-common question
[02:51] <jdub> Lathiat_: that's offensively non-HIG-compliant
[02:51] <jdub> Lathiat_: i'm going to yell at alp
[02:51] <Kamion> hey, now it installs cleanly apart from the question; I don't understand this
[02:52] <Lathiat_> jdub: haha
[02:52] <slomo> jbailey: i have some news for you ;) i finally tested latest initramfs with 2.6.12-3-powerpc and i get exactly the same error... so it should be initramfs' fault
[02:52] <Lathiat_> /usr/bin/metacity: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
[02:52] <Lathiat_> yay
[02:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: /var/cache/apt/archives/ only goes up to pppdcapiplugin
[02:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: full disk?
[02:53] <jbailey> slomo: No, it could still be the kernel's fault.  that was when we switched to initramfs.
[02:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no
[02:53] <Kamion> 6GB free
[02:53] <jbailey> If the kernel was broken after that point for loading an initramfs, it's certainly going to be broken before.
[02:53] <slomo> jbailey: ok
[02:55] <jbailey> jdub: Hard to say.  Looks like he needs the driver blacklisted for him on certain hardware.
[02:57] <Kamion> and in fact language-support-en failed to install correctly, although base-config *cough* ignores that
[02:58] <jbailey> jdub: It still might be kernelish, but I've grabbed the bug for now.
[02:58] <Mithrandir> apt should have better timeout detection
[02:59] <Mithrandir> allow me to correct myself: apt should _have_ timeout detection.
[02:59] <Lathiat_> oh it gets there
[03:00] <Lathiat_> give it 5 minutes or so
[03:01] <mjg59> jdub: ?
[03:02] <Mithrandir> Kamion: wbritish and friends are in /var/cache/apt/archives here, as files, not symlinks (which is what archive-copier seems to have put there)
[03:04] <Kamion> *symlinks*?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> yup
[03:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: what stage of the install are you at?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> I'm done with the install now.
[03:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh no, actually, that's correct
[03:04] <Mithrandir> archive-copier makes symlinks from /var/cache/archive-copier/ship (and so on) to /var/cache/apt/archives
[03:05] <Kamion> no, archive-copier does not
[03:05] <Kamion> base-config/lib/menu/archive-copier does
[03:05] <Kamion> # Make cached packages that aren't installed by default visible to
[03:05] <Kamion> # apt, but only symlink them so that 'apt-get clean' doesn't remove
[03:05] <Kamion> # them.
[03:05] <Kamion> I guess that could be the problem
[03:05] <Kamion> but it seems a bit of a stretch
[03:07] <Mithrandir> well, it seems to work here (using Norwegian as the installation language)
[03:07] <Kamion> ah, try English
[03:08] <Kamion> the Norwegian language-support-* isn't on the CD so it's not as good a test
[03:08] <Mithrandir> well, it installs the language-support-en as well as language-support-no
[03:09] <Kamion> archive-copier doesn't copy them though - I think that's a bug
[03:09] <Kamion> so it's probably downloading language-support-en from the network
[03:10] <Mithrandir> no, it's not
[03:10] <Mithrandir> not for me, at least.
[03:11] <jdub> elmo: ping
[03:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: are you sure your CD is up-to-date?
[03:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes
[03:11] <Kamion> oh, localechooser/supported-locales might list en
[03:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I can try an English install and see if I can get it to break.
[03:12] <Kamion> yeah, it does, that would explain it
[03:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: please
[03:12] <Kamion> this breakage is weird - I'm going to try running pkgsel under strace
[03:22] <tepsipakki> how the heck do I disable gdmflexiserver?
[03:22] <tepsipakki> without uninstalling Xnest
[03:23] <seb128> you probably don't
[03:23] <infinity> Kamion : Oh, can you NEW the php5-syck binaries?
[03:23] <thesaltydog>  just installed breezy and getting a lot of "Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by Xlib at /usr/lib/perl5/Gtk2.pm line 59" messages...
[03:23] <Treenaks> what's your locale? :)
[03:24] <thesaltydog> it_IT
[03:24] <sivang> mpt: It's ok, it is just that I'd need to drop all of my patches and my work was redundent. I wish I had asked you that before..
[03:24] <thesaltydog> Treenaks, obviously in Hoary was working fine.
[03:24] <tepsipakki> seb128: actually, setting FlexibleXServers=0 in gdm.conf helped. oh well
[03:24] <lamont-away> seb128: got a minute:
[03:24] <lamont-away> ?
[03:25] <sivang> seb128: how can we make someone click way through to gnome-panel's lp page from teh System menu?
[03:25] <thesaltydog> Treenaks, I have seen this: Bug #13724 and it looks like mine..
[03:25] <lamont-away> seb128: nm
[03:26] <Treenaks> thesaltydog: isn't that a feature?
[03:26] <thesaltydog> Treenaks, pardon?
[03:28] <bddebian> Hello
[03:28] <Treenaks> thesaltydog: well, I mean, hoary is supposed to be UTF-8, and breezy even more
[03:29] <thesaltydog> Treenaks, yes infact my default is it_IT.UTF-8
[03:29] <Kamion> infinity: done, I think. the straight-to-universe NEW procedure hurts my brane
[03:30] <Treenaks> thesaltydog: is that defined in locale.gen?
[03:30] <bddebian> brain :-)
[03:30] <Kamion> bddebian: deliberate misslepping
[03:30] <bddebian> Ahh :-)
[03:30] <thesaltydog> Treenaks, of course
[03:30] <Kamion> I think it's a reference but I can't remember to where
[03:31] <lamont-away> fabbione: #14130 - what was the debconf question, do you remember?
[03:32] <sivang> mpt: the thing is, going the way so it seems to me excludes the appelts and the panel from even considered from being opened in launchapd, presentationally there's nothing that pops it to the user other then the context menu...
[03:33] <seb128> lamont-away: pong
[03:33] <seb128> sivang: you don't?
[03:34] <sivang> seb128: sorry, I lost context, can say again?
[03:34] <seb128> tepsipakki: k
[03:34] <lamont-away> seb128: was there a {gnome,$mumble} library that was missing a Depends: libglitz recently?  or am I just special?
[03:35] <lamont-away> hence the nm right after the ping... :)
[03:36] <tepsipakki> seb128: actually Xnest is not even installed
[03:37] <jdub> lamont-away: i got more memory for my D370
[03:38] <jdub> lamont-away: i think some of it is bung, but i'll figure out which
[03:38] <seb128> lamont-away: no, cairo used to build with it, and a bunch of .la got a mention to glitz.la
[03:38] <seb128> lamont-away: so when cairo stopped depending on it ...
[03:38] <Diziet> Dammit, I wish apt would let you dpkg -i while it was downloading stuff.
[03:38] <seb128> lamont-away: is there any issue remaining due to that?
[03:39] <pitti> Diziet: BAL - big apt lock :-)
[03:39] <seb128> sivang: sivang seb128: how can we make someone click way through to gnome-panel's lp page from teh System menu?
[03:39] <Diziet> I wouldn't mind if it just took out its _own_ lock.  But it stole dpkg's too.
[03:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: apart from the dictionaries-common question, I can't reproduce any problems.
[03:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and wbritish is not downloaded; it's the copied version which is installed.
[03:40] <sivang> seb128: I see, so we should leave gnome-panel and applets out of lpi ?
[03:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, this is truly weird then
[03:41] <infinity> seb128, lamont-away : That's all cleared up on the primary arches, but I assume hppa and sparc may still see some fallout for a bit, if they're backlogged.
[03:42] <lamont-away> seb128: that answers my question - I can deal with it from here.
[03:42] <lamont-away> infinity: yeah - this is on hpap
[03:42] <lamont-away> hppa
[03:42] <jdub> seb128: is the gksu full screen dimming scary stuff going to stay?
[03:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's a bit hard to diagnose a problem you're the only one seeing. :-P
[03:43] <bddebian> heh
[03:43] <seb128> jdub: ask mvo, he puts it and kind of maintain gksu :)
[03:43] <sivang> jdub: scares me as well ;)
[03:43] <mvo> jdub: it's in from upstream, I don't really care wheter to have it in or not
[03:44] <seb128> sivang: what do you want to let away from lpi and why?
[03:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'll keep hammering at it
[03:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks for the data points, though
[03:47] <sivang> seb128: 15:39 < seb128> sivang: sivang seb128: how can we make someone click way through to gnome-panel's lp page from teh System menu?
[03:47] <mpt> sivang: sorry about that ... it has been illustrated in the spec for a couple of months now (albeit that the menu has the wrong title)
[03:47] <robertj> the nightly live cds are supposed to have usplash now right?
[03:48] <sivang> seb128: 15:33 < seb128> sivang: you don't?
[03:48] <mpt> jdub: So it's not just me who thinks that's really weird? phew, I thought I was alone in the world :-)
[03:48] <mpt> sivang: oh, the page for gnome-panel itself?
[03:49] <sivang> mpt: it's cool, basically drop 2 patches that's all - but I return to my question, how would then people be pushed into opening gnome-panle's and the applet's page in launchpad?
[03:49] <mpt> sivang: yeah, I suppose that belongs in the context menu
[03:49] <sivang> mpt: yeah ;)
[03:49] <sivang> mpt: THANK you!
[03:49] <infinity> I like the full screen dimming, but I'm not too keen on the fact that it seems to take a few seconds before it does anything at all.
[03:49] <sivang> :)
[03:49] <mpt> sivang: Sorry, I thought you meant the page for Ubuntu-in-general
[03:50] <seb128> sivang: copying the sam sentence will not change my question, I don't parse them correctly
[03:50] <jdub> mvo: perhaps we should change it to set an urgent hint, and not do the dimming
[03:51] <mvo> jdub: do you want it fixed before preview?
[03:51] <jdub> mvo: if you have time, that would be great :)
[03:51] <seb128> jdub: it has the first plan and the lock anyway, effect or not, no need to set any hint imho
[03:52] <jdub> seb128: it might help if the window pops up somewhere weirdly
[03:52] <seb128> hum
[03:52] <jdub> seb128: given that it has a keyboard grab
[03:52] <mpt> It's always in the middle of the screen, though, right?
[03:52] <seb128> it pop first plan centered
[03:52] <jdub> mpt: well, at the moment it is
[03:52] <mvo> and it should set keep_above() already too
[03:52] <mpt> so what would "weirdly" be?
[03:52] <seb128> the question is effect or not
[03:52] <seb128> no need of any hint
[03:53] <jdub> mpt: when we turn off the dimming and fully controlled borderless window positioning
[03:53] <seb128> it'll still be centered and on first plan
[03:53] <jdub> it may appear in places the user doesn't look at immediately
[03:53] <jdub> seb128: ok
[03:53] <seb128> it was this way for hoary, no?
[03:54] <jdub> yeah
[03:54] <bddebian> Sorry for asking in here vs. motu but how do I go about resolving some of my issues with unmet deps or debian merges where deps or build-deps are missing from the archive??
[03:55] <seb128> bddebian: example?
[03:55] <bddebian> yaprimaxgui needs pxscan (multiverse)
[03:58] <bddebian> libdebtags1 is another
[04:02] <sivang> mpt: ;)
[04:02] <sivang> seb128: k, np, mpt has answered what I asked, sorry for bugging you
[04:07] <Lathiat_> man, having your touchpad movement at a 1:1 ratio in physical size sucks
[04:07] <Treenaks> Lathiat_: touch screen 8)
[04:08] <Lathiat_> heh
[04:08] <Lathiat_> well th synaptics driver broke bad
[04:08] <Lathiat_> in the latest upload
[04:08] <Lathiat_> the mouse even decides to move in the opposite direction sometimes
[04:08] <Treenaks> Lathiat_: well, the old one broke clicking on my HP
[04:08] <Treenaks> s/clicking/tapping
[04:09] <Lathiat_> heh
[04:09] <Lathiat_> thats not so bad trust me ;p
[04:09] <Treenaks> Lathiat_: tel mjg59 ;)
[04:10] <Lathiat_> well i whinged to daniels im sure he'll look at it :)
[04:20] <doko> seb128: gnome-panel has the three "top" menu items translated (at least I can find them in the de.po file), but doesn't show these items, they are shown in plain en.
[04:22] <mvo> Kamion: has preview-freeze already started? or will it start at 00:00UTC (or some other time) today?
[04:26] <tepsipakki> daniels: why does xorg-driver-synaptics depend on xserver-xorg?
[04:27] <tepsipakki> i need that driver, but can't uninstall all the unneeded servers etc
[04:28] <daniels> tepsipakki: should be -core, but if you're concerned about like 2.5MB ...
[04:29] <tepsipakki> well, -core seems to depend on xserver-xorg as well ;)
[04:30] <tim1> hello
[04:31] <tim1> does anybody know why xorg-driver-fgrlx depends on ALL other xorg drivers?
[04:31] <Diziet> Joy.  My new dpkg creates a status file that makes old dpkg coredump.
[04:31] <tim1> I would have to install 50+ drivers for hardware i don't have to use fglrx
[04:32] <daniels> look, seriously, I'm only going to say this once
[04:32] <daniels> the point of creating xserver-xorg-core and splitting it wasn't so you could uninstall stuff
[04:32] <daniels> if you're worried about like 15MB, you can find it much easier in other places
[04:32] <sabdfl> the point is to accelerate the development
[04:32] <chmj> shackan: ping 
[04:32] <tepsipakki> well, why does xserver-xorg say that it is a dummy package, that you can remove if not needed ?-)
[04:33] <sabdfl> because each of these packages can have a separate team, or additoinal contributors
[04:33] <rtcm> daniels: btw, any idea why the sis driver has almost 3 MB while I have one from the original authos with about 600 kb?
[04:33] <sabdfl> smaller uploads, smaller teams, modular will be a big win from a community development point of view
[04:33] <sabdfl> it will be easier to find contributors for a driver, or a library, than the whole hog
[04:34] <tepsipakki> I know the benefits, just wondered those silly dependencies
[04:34] <tim1> ok, got it, I didn't ask this because i was worried about some dis space, I actually thought it would be a bug
[04:34] <bddebian> seb128: No thoughts on what I should do?
[04:34] <daniels> the point is two-fold: a) accelerate development, b) make updates easier to do as only one package changes ratehr than all of them (think: security)
[04:35] <daniels> rtcm: i suspect we're stripping it sub-optimally
[04:35] <sladen> tepsipakki: is
[04:36] <sladen> tepsipakki: it's a virtual package that does nothing more than depend on all the separate parts---means you can type 'apt-get install xserver-xorg' rather than having to type 'apt-get install {50 different packages}'
[04:37] <tepsipakki> i know... the description just should be changed, if it in fact cannot be removed
[04:38] <bddebian> Man and here I thought it was just daniels that hated me :-(
[04:38] <bddebian> :-)
[04:42] <slomo> daniels: at least on ppc the /etc/X11/X link points to something non-existant (/usr/bin/X11/Xorg iirc)... has to be /usr/bin/Xorg imho
[04:43] <daniels> slomo: /usr/bin/X11 should be a symlink to /us/rbin
[04:44] <slomo> daniels: it isn't for me... it's an empty directory. (this installation was an update from colony 2 to current breezy)
[04:46] <daniels> slomo: #13379, hoping to fix it this weekend
[04:46] <daniels> we're hitting weird semantics of dpkg
[04:47] <slomo> daniels: ok... thanks :)
[04:50] <pablof> hi, how can i suggest one package for multiverse repository ?
[04:51] <lamont-away> in debian/config, is it trivial to distinguish upgrade from fresh install?
[04:53] <ogra> pablof, put it on the UniverseCandidates wikipage...
[04:54] <pablof> ogra: ok, thanks
[04:54] <carlos> mvo, hi
[04:54] <bddebian> lamont-away: So buy her a new one :-)
[04:54] <lamont-away> I meant the generic grandma
[04:54] <mvo> hey carlos, is there a problem with import language-selector into rosetta?
[04:55] <bddebian> lamont-away: Ohh, hehe
[04:55] <carlos> mvo, seems like there is a problem, yes
[04:55] <carlos> I think I got the source code last month and I didn't see any .pot file
[04:55] <carlos> mvo, am I wrong?
[04:55] <mvo> carlos: apt-get source language-selector gives me po/language-selector.pot 
[04:56] <carlos> mvo, since when?
[04:56] <carlos> I mean is it new?
[04:56] <mvo> carlos: ~14 Jun (according to the changelog)
[04:56] <carlos> wow
[04:56] <mvo> :)
[04:56] <carlos> ok, then I checked another package....
[04:56] <mvo> carlos: could you please have a look if it can be imported now? 
[04:56] <zyga> ah here you are :-)
[04:57] <zyga> I didn't notice
[04:57] <mvo> carlos: the initial version did not contain a pot file, that might have been the problem
[04:57] <carlos> mvo, sure. Anyway, for the future, you don't need to create a product on launchpad to get an Ubuntu package translated
[04:57] <carlos> zyga, ;-)
[04:57] <mvo> carlos: yeah, I know that now, thanks
[04:59] <carlos> ok, the problem is that we don't have any language-selector inside launchpad's database
[04:59] <mvo> carlos: please ping me if there still is a problem
[04:59] <zyga> mvo, carlos: thank you both for your help :)
[04:59] <carlos> mvo, sure
[04:59] <mvo> zyga: thanks for telling us about the problem
[05:15] <Kamion> mvo: later today AFAIK
[05:15] <Diziet> keybuk: ping
[05:16] <Keybuk> Diziet: yup
[05:16] <Diziet> Hi.  So I have a patch (or will do shortly).
[05:17] <Diziet> Should I upload a new 1.13.10ubuntu into breezy ?  Should I do anything with the Debian version ?
[05:17] <Diziet> Are you planning to put 1.13.11 into breezy ?  Maybe we should.
[05:17] <Keybuk> I suspect we'll need to test the batch a bit more before putting it into breezy
[05:17] <Keybuk> check with mdz what he feels
[05:17] <Keybuk> 1.13.11 isn't going into breezy
[05:17] <Diziet> 1.13.11> shame, but there you go :-).
[05:17] <Keybuk> submit the patch to the Debian BTS, I'll check it out and upload it with the next version of dpkg into Debian -- probably in a week or so
[05:18] <Diziet> OK.  Willdo.  I'll install it on a few of my installs here too.
[05:18] <Keybuk> *nods* I've promised bubulle a week of freeze to get the translations up to date ya see <g>
[05:19] <Diziet> I would like to get this patch into the preview release because it fixes a spurious conffile prompt in hoary->breezy.
[05:19] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:19] <Kamion> preview freeze is today, so it'll require manual review / exception etc.
[05:20] <Keybuk> but if I mentioned that having such a massive number of people upgrading to test it was a good thing, mdz would do his nut and have a heart-attack
[05:20] <Keybuk> so I won't mention that :)
[05:20] <bddebian> hehe
[05:21] <daniels> heh
[05:21] <daniels> preview freeze
[05:22] <Diziet> I don't know if this patch will apply cleanly to .10ubuntu.
[05:23] <Keybuk> should do ... there wasn't that much of a change
[05:23] <Diziet> The changelog .10 to .11 looks big.
[05:23] <jlj> http://nanocrew.net/?p=129
[05:34] <Diziet> k: it does.  The BTS will have the patch soon.
[05:36] <zyga> carlos: < > are displayed as &lt; &gt; is that intentional?
[05:39] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, I've got conclusive evidence of weirdness here
[05:39] <Kamion> Mithrandir: 'grep wamerican_ pkgsel.trace' goes:
[05:40] <Kamion> 26584 execve("/usr/bin/apt-extracttemplates", ["apt-extracttemplates", "/var/cache/apt/archives/wamerican_5-4_all.deb"] , [/* 32 vars */] ) = 0
[05:40] <Kamion> 26584 open("/var/cache/apt/archives/wamerican_5-4_all.deb", O_RDONLY) = 3
[05:40] <Kamion> 26728 execve("/usr/bin/dpkg", ["/usr/bin/dpkg", "--status-fd", "19", "--unpack", "/var/cache/apt/archives/aspell-en_6.0-0-5_all.deb", "/var/cache/apt/archives/mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb_1.0.4lang20050515-1ubuntu3_all.deb", "/var/cache/apt/archives/myspell-en-gb_20050823-1ubuntu1_all.deb", "/var/cache/apt/archives/myspell-en-us_20050823-1ubuntu1_all.deb", "/var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org2-l10n-en-gb_1.9.125+2.0b
[05:40] <Kamion> 26728 stat64("/var/cache/apt/archives/wamerican_5-4_all.deb", 0xbfb77488) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[05:40] <Kamion> and nothing else should be running at that point
[05:43] <carlos> zyga, It depends on the package that you translate. Sometimes it is and others it's not. I think we have a bug report about that already
[05:45] <zyga> carlos: msgid is displayed as  &lt;foo&gt; but the mgstr textarea contains <foo>
[05:46] <carlos> zyga, URL?
[05:46] <zyga> carlos: one moment please, I'm translating several things in paralell
[05:46] <zyga> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gaim/+pots/review-breezy-gaim-1/pl/+translate
[05:46] <zyga> message number: 1105
[05:47] <zyga> carlos: check the source of that fragment - i think that's clear now :)
[05:48] <carlos> zyga, in general, please avoid to translate the review-* potemplates
[05:48] <zyga> carlos: & is not escaped in msgstr
[05:48] <zyga> msgid has: &amp; but msgstr has plain &
[05:48] <carlos> zyga, which message number?
[05:48] <zyga> :)
[05:48] <zyga> 1105
[05:50] <zyga> carlos: I'll file a bug if you say so
[05:50] <carlos> I think there is already one
[05:50] <carlos> look for it first, please
[05:51] <zyga> checking
[05:53] <Diziet> k: This is a weird `file goes missing between apt and dpkg' bug you've got ?
[05:54] <zyga> carlos: no such bug reported
[05:54] <Diziet> It did that to me too but I couldn't reproduce it.
[05:54] <zyga> carlos: I was only checking open bugs
[05:54] <carlos> hmm
[05:54] <carlos> ok file a new one
[05:54] <carlos> I will set it as duplicated
[05:54] <carlos> with next bug triadge
[05:55] <zyga> k
[06:00] <zyga> carlos: did you managed do look the original msgstr up? I'd like to be sure
[06:01] <carlos> zyga, yes, it's a bug 
[06:01] <Kamion> Diziet: it's during installation, so I'm more inclined to blame something weird in base-config to start with
[06:01] <carlos> zyga, the msgid is correct, the msgstr is not
[06:02] <zyga> k, filing now
[06:02] <Diziet> kamion: It happend to me in my hoary->breezy test upgrade.
[06:02] <Kamion> it's very reproducible but unfortunately the test cycle is ~30mins
[06:02] <Diziet> But only once.
[06:02] <Kamion> it's the same set of files every time here
[06:02] <jdub> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/CoolConfigurations
[06:02] <jdub> lots of ubuntu ;)
[06:03] <Kamion> almost as if something else is running apt in parallel
[06:03] <Diziet> I ran apt-get dist-upgrade in an ssh session and it did that, first off, for linux-kernel-headers.
[06:05] <tseng_> Kamion: can we sync monodoc 1.0.6-3 (new revison) from debian to fix file conflicts?
[06:05] <tseng_> slomo: er, explain this to me again
[06:05] <tseng_> slomo: its making new packages, and they conflict with the others with the same files?
[06:05] <slomo> tseng_: our monodoc contains the gtk#, gecko, nunit docs in monodoc-manual...
[06:06] <tseng_> yes.
[06:06] <slomo> tseng_: the one in debian puts them into different packages which conflict on the 2.0 packages for these docs
[06:06] <slomo> tseng_: otherwise you "can" install the 1.0 and 2.0 doc package and get an error because some files already exist
[06:06] <tseng_> does 2.0 docs cover both?
[06:07] <slomo> tseng_: no
[06:07] <Kamion> tseng_: if the package split in -3 is OK and if you don't mind throwing away the Ubuntu changes, sure
[06:07] <seb__> daniels: around?
[06:07] <slomo> tseng_: but that can't be done better... bug in monodoc design
[06:07] <tseng_> yep
[06:08] <daniels> seb128: mmm?
[06:09] <slomo> tseng_: sorry for beeing this short... i'm currently learning maths ;)
[06:09] <tseng_> slomo: did you check the ubuntu diff?
[06:09] <slomo> tseng_: no... will you or shall i?
[06:09] <tseng_> can you please
[06:10] <tseng_> im quite busy
[06:10] <slomo> tseng_: me too ;) but i'll try
[06:10] <tseng_> if it looks like we can drop it we can tell elmo that Kamion and I agree
[06:12] <tseng_> slomo: i think my changes were just pulling stuff out of SVN and shipping it vs syncing an already-in-debian package
[06:12] <seb128> daniels: I've reassigned this bug to you
[06:12] <seb128> daniels: there is no dvorak mention from GNOME, and that's not the bug
[06:12] <seb128> daniels: an another guy hijacked the bug with his borked xorg.conf part, but the applet is an user stuff and doesn't change xorg.conf
[06:13] <Diziet> Aaargh!  Bloody awful patch buildsystems!  dpatch has buggered this source tree.
[06:13] <slomo> tseng_: i don't know... you shipped a missing-files.tar ;)
[06:14] <tseng_> it looks ok to drop to me
[06:14] <slomo> dito
[06:14] <tseng_> ill mail elmo
[06:14] <tseng_> and then leave
[06:14] <slomo> ok, fine :)
[06:14] <tseng_> thanks.
[06:14] <jdub> elmo: what are the chances of a valgrind sync?
[06:15] <elmo> jdub: mdz's call?  it has one reverse build-depend, kdesomthing or other
[06:15] <elmo> I suspect if someone confirmed kdesomethingorother still build with new valgrind, mdz would be more willing to consider it
[06:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and it's not being caught by the "clean up archive-copier" stuff?
[06:16] <jdub> Riddell: ping
[06:16] <Diziet> And why oh why does the default /etc/profile have umask 022 ?
[06:16] <jdub> elmo: ta
[06:16] <elmo> jdub: somethingorother == network, FWIW
[06:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the trace comes after that
[06:17] <Riddell> jdub: pong
[06:17] <Mithrandir> Diziet: why shouldn't it?
[06:17] <Kamion> last thing mentioning pptp-linux_ is the mv cleaning up /var/cache/archive-copier/ship/, yet that's gone missing too
[06:17] <jdub> Riddell: reckon kdesomethingorother will work with new valgrind?
[06:17] <daniels> seb128: dude, it's the gnome keyboard thingy that's setting his layout to dvorak
[06:17] <Riddell> kcachegrind
[06:17] <daniels> seb128: now, tbh, I don't know whether this is a list in gnome-applets or whether xk-c needs a kick up the arse, but it's certainly not xorg proper
[06:18] <jdub> jbailey: do you want to own grub bugs?
[06:18] <Riddell> jdub: I'll take a look now while I wait for qt to compile
[06:18] <Riddell> don't see any reason why not
[06:19] <jdub> Riddell: thanks
[06:19] <Mithrandir> if we got newer valgrind, much happiness will ensue in the amd64 camp.
[06:19] <jdub> Mithrandir: will you all be like \o/ ?
[06:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh my god, I think I just guessed what it is and it's horrible
[06:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: have a look at /etc/cron.daily/apt
[06:20] <Mithrandir> jdub: it's "valgrind exists" vs "valgrind doesn't exist", so yes. :-)
[06:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you're kidding me.
[06:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: cron.daily ran during my base-config run (from anacron)
[06:20] <Mithrandir> ewwwww
[06:20] <Kamion> I spy a smoking gun
[06:20] <jdub> mdz: ross burton has asked for a sync of valgrind to more sanely debug gnome things that are affecting us, Riddell is checking if the reverse-depends works with it, and Mithrandir suggests the amd64 camp will have a debugging orgy if it goes in - your thoughts?
[06:20] <Keybuk> ...and wiped your apt cache? :p
[06:20] <Kamion> correct
[06:20] <Kamion> well, partially
[06:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that's utterly, utterly, utterly crack.  I guess I wasn't bitten because my machine was faster, or something.
[06:21] <Kamion> I imagine it's something to do with age/size of the .debs
[06:21] <Keybuk> isn't it a bit of a d'oh to be running cron during an install anyway? :)
[06:21] <Mithrandir> jdub: apt-cache rdepends?
[06:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: cron is configured by that stage - I don't see why it's actively bad
[06:21] <Diziet> mith: umask> Shared filespaces and personal groups.  Surely you've been exposed to this argument before ?
[06:22] <Kamion> yeah, I think it's deleting all .debs over 30 days old
[06:23] <Mithrandir> Diziet: well, that's a point, but iirc sshd (among other things) will be really, really unhappy if you don't chmod g-w ~/.ssh and such.  It's easy enough to change for people who want that.
[06:23] <Kamion> and since I use cp -a, the timestamp from the archive is preserved
[06:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that's an sshd bug, I keep meaning to fix that
[06:23] <jdub> Mithrandir: probably
[06:23] <jdub> Mithrandir: more likely it was a brainfart
[06:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: how, really?
[06:23] <Kamion> in fact I did fix some of that recently
[06:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: did you have your release blockers chat with mdz yesterday or is that for today?
[06:23] <Diziet> mith: sshd should be fixed too.
[06:23] <Kamion>   * Allow ~/.ssh/config to be group-writable, provided that the group in
[06:23] <Kamion>     question contains only the file's owner (closes: #314347).
[06:24] <mdz> morning
[06:24] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yesterday
[06:24] <Keybuk> morning Mr. Z
[06:24] <Mithrandir> speak of the devil.  Hi mdz.
[06:24] <Kamion> I couldn't convince upstream of the need for that sshd fix though
[06:24] <daniels> christ, the east coast is waking up
[06:24] <daniels> er, west cosat, even
[06:24] <Diziet> -chiark:~> grep -i mode /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[06:24] <Diziet> StrictModes no
[06:24] <Mithrandir> daniels: quick, go to bed.
[06:24] <daniels> oh whatever
[06:24] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah
[06:24] <Diziet> It would be nice if you could say  StrictModeUmask 002
[06:25] <Keybuk> so zsh gets upset if you run compinit twice
[06:25] <Keybuk> which is somewhat odd, but hey
[06:25] <jbailey> jdub: What do you mean? =)
[06:26] <daniels> seb128: it's too late for me to think more about 14365 now
[06:26] <jdub> jbailey: currently grub bugs go to debzilla
[06:26] <jbailey> jdub: Is that Ubuntueze for /dev/null?
[06:26] <jdub> /dev/muck
[06:26] <Kamion> jbailey: close enough
[06:26] <daniels> seb128: i'd say 'i think you're right', but I might regret it in the morning
[06:27] <jbailey> jbailey: Given that I've known all of grub's upstream over its history, I'm probaby the most qualified for them.
[06:27] <jbailey> 'want', might be too strong of a word. =)
[06:27] <jbailey> But sure. =)
[06:27] <jdub> now that you've convinced yourself
[06:27] <jdub> convince me ;)
[06:27] <Kamion> mdz: what's the best way to disable /etc/cron.daily/apt temporarily? I can think of at least four variously hacky ways
[06:28] <jdub> schwing!
[06:28] <jbailey> jdub: I also already have a pile of grub bugs, more won't hurt. =)
[06:28] <jbailey> ... much
[06:30] <Keybuk> ok, figured it.  by running compinit in my zshrc after adding ~/.zsh to fpath so my _bzr function could be found ... it decides to bitch about the writableness of .zsh/_bzr and stamp all over .zcompdump when I run sudo
[06:30] <Keybuk> which is odd, but hey
[06:30] <Keybuk> replacing it with just compdef worked
[06:30] <Keybuk> zsh is weird sometimes
[06:34] <jdub> mjg59: so how'd you fix the colour?
[06:34] <mjg59> jdub: Got a gimp palette from the picture, swapped the colours by hand, changed the picture to RGB and then reindexed it to the new palette
[06:36] <mjg59> www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/tmp/ubuntu.png
[06:36] <wasabi> Can we animate that?
[06:36] <wasabi> Ya know how OS X starts with the light screen, with only the little twirlly thing in the middle rotating colors?
[06:36] <wasabi> I want to do that with the Ubuntu logo.
[06:36] <wasabi> Have the brown shades rotate around.
[06:38] <jbailey> y'mean make Mark, Matt and James dance in circles?
[06:38] <wasabi> Totally.
[06:38] <wasabi> Without shirts, no less.
[06:38] <Keybuk> sorry, I'm veto'ing any attempt to get James topless
[06:39] <zul> ditto
[06:40] <jbailey> wasabi: Sounds like you have to appeal to the sabdfl or give it up. =)
[06:41] <jdub> mjg59: what do you think about making the progress bar a ~5px line at the very bottom
[06:41] <jdub> ?
[06:41] <mjg59> jdub: Could do
[06:41] <mjg59> For now I've just moved it below the logo
[06:42] <Keybuk> that might look sexy, or it might not be obvious what's happening
[06:42] <jdub> Keybuk: mmm
[06:42] <jdub> plus it won't be at the edge on wacky screens anyway
[06:42] <jdub> hard to use the edge for much
[06:42] <Keybuk> indeed
[06:43] <Keybuk> it floats in the middle on my old laptop as it is
[06:43] <jdub> Keybuk: what do you think of the current artwork?
[06:43] <Keybuk> I'd like a box around the bar, so you can tell how far it's going to go
[06:43] <jdub> (latest usplash upload is the same, just a bit cleaner)
[06:43] <Keybuk> other than that, I thought it was simple and elegant
[06:43] <Keybuk> with slightly retro fonts that I found rather appealing
[06:44] <jdub> or maybe a non-black background for the prog bar
[06:44] <Keybuk> I didn't agree with puppy at all
[06:44] <jdub> light beige on dark beige
[06:44] <Keybuk> it has to be a black background
[06:44] <jdub> i think a single line box will look a bit poxy
[06:45] <Keybuk> possibly, if it were very dark brown
[06:45] <jdub> d
[06:45] <Keybuk> the queue can be almost subliminal, just as long as it gives the brain something to measure against
[06:45] <jdub> trough?
[06:46] <jdub> the slot bit
[06:46] <Keybuk> if it was light on dark, it'd look a bit odd
[06:46] <Keybuk> more like a moving shutter than a progress bar
[06:46] <jdub> oh
[06:46] <jdub> perhaps if we had a rounded box
[06:46] <jdub> ala winxp ;)
[06:47] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2005/usplash/winxp-professional.jpg
[06:47] <Mithrandir> which isn't a progress bar, just a moving thingie
[06:47] <jdub> yeah, but look at the trough :)
[06:48] <mirak> hi
[06:48] <mirak> anyone is responsible of ppc kernel builds ?
[06:48] <Keybuk> the trough is black
[06:48] <mirak> otherwise b&w G3 won't boot because they will not initialise the ide harddrive
[06:48] <mirak> hum sorry
[06:48] <mirak> wrong paste
[06:48] <jdub> Keybuk: "the rounded border around the trough"
[06:48] <mirak> the cmd646 module must be built into the kernel, otherwise you can't boot on blue & white G3
[06:49] <mirak> if the initrd is on the /dev/hdc, you can't boot
[06:49] <daniels> seb__: also, hillarious metacity bug if you can reproduce
[06:49] <mjg59> mirak: Hmm? Why?
[06:49] <daniels> seb__: have your current command in the window title, and then run a REALLY long command
[06:50] <Diziet> daniels: I just fixed up your broken gsfonts-x11 upload, FYI :-).
[06:50] <daniels> seb__: you'll end up with all the text overlapping each other -- it looks like it wraps, but on to the same
[06:50] <daniels> line
[06:50] <daniels> Diziet: um, I uploaded gsfonts-x11?
[06:50] <Diziet> gsfonts-x11 (0.17ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[06:50] <Diziet>  -- Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@ubuntu.com>  Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:05:31 +1000
[06:50] <Diziet> That's you, isn't it ?
[06:51] <mirak> mjg59: because, the G3 avec two ide controlers, one for the harddrives, and one for the cdrom or other hard drive, zip whtaver
[06:51] <daniels> Diziet: thanks, in any case
[06:51] <Diziet> You changed the depth of the symlinks, but they were all relative so you should have changed the number of ../'s in them too.
[06:51] <mirak> mjg59: if cmd646 is not built into the kernel, you won't get the root device, since it's on what the system is on
[06:51] <Diziet> NP.  I just thought I should let you know.
[06:51] <daniels> Diziet: cool
[06:52] <mirak> mjg59: you won't get the initrd either
[06:52] <mjg59> mirak: What does that have to do with whether it's in the initrd or not?
[06:52] <mjg59> The kernel doesn't read the initrd off disk
[06:52] <mjg59> The bootloader does
[06:54] <mirak> mjg59: ok, so cmd646 is probably not into initrd as well
[06:54] <mirak> I don't know but it doesn't work
[06:54] <mjg59> mirak: Right. That sounds quite possible
[06:54] <Kamion> Mithrandir: to be more exact, you have to be unlucky enough for cron.daily to run between update-notifier being configured and the end of pkgsel, I think
[06:54] <Kamion> anyway, fixing now
[06:54] <mjg59> mirak: The person to talk to is jbailey
[06:54] <Kamion> that should deal with a lot of semi-unreproducible base-config bugs
[06:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: how are you fixing it?
[06:55] <mirak> I forgot to say the problem is on breezy new kernels
[06:55] <Keybuk> jdub: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ubuntu-bar.png  is kinda what I was thinking
[06:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sticking a bunch of stuff in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99base-config to effectively disable /etc/cron.daily/apt, and removing that file when I'm done
[06:55] <slomo> Keybuk: looks nice :)
[06:55] <mirak> jbailey: hey, are you there ?
[06:56] <Kamion> fortunately update-notifier is only installed as part of desktop, which simplifies the problem somewhat
[06:56] <Keybuk> you could probably use an even darker colour for the trough border too, it only needs to be subliminal
[06:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: evil
[06:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: but I guess it works.
[06:56] <Kamion> all the other solutions I could think of were worse
[06:56] <Kamion> this at least doesn't involve mucking around with other packages' files
[06:57] <jdub> Keybuk: gotcha
[06:57] <Diziet> kamion: Can't we fix the cron.daily/apt to look at the ctime too ?
[06:58] <Kamion> Diziet: I have to disable it anyway; I don't want it to do an apt-get update run in the middle of the installation
[06:58] <Kamion> with hindsight, that explains other bugs
[06:58] <Diziet> apt-get update>   Urgh!
[06:58] <Diziet> But it should definitely be fixed not to look at the ctime.
[06:58] <Diziet> (as well)
[06:58] <Diziet> I mean, _to_ look at the ctime.
[06:59] <Kamion> mm, yes, I agree
[07:01] <Mithrandir> hm, I should look at the Xen d-i integration stuff tomorrow or so.
[07:12] <Lathiat_> mjg59: sweet, my laptop lcd actually turns off now, however
[07:12] <Lathiat_> mjg59: i have to move the mouse to bring it back on
[07:12] <Lathiat_> mjg59: known?>
[07:12] <Lathiat_> mjg59: (when i open the lid, it should pop up straight away me thinks)
[07:14] <Amaranth> should it?
[07:14] <Amaranth> i don't think windows does that
[07:14] <Lathiat_> i think it should
[07:14] <Lathiat_> if i open my lid
[07:15] <Lathiat_> i more than likely want to use my laptop
[07:15] <Lathiat_> so the screen should turn back on
[07:15] <Lathiat_> it used to
[07:17] <Kamion> Lathiat_: it gets bad on laptops with faulty lids ...
[07:17] <Lathiat_> Kamion: ah
[07:17] <Kamion> dunno if that's the reason though
[07:17] <Lathiat_> be nice if it was at least an option then
[07:17] <Lathiat_> but i can see the reasoning there
[07:18] <Lathiat_> tho those laptops suck
[07:18] <Lathiat_> ;p
[07:18] <Kamion> in my case it's not so much due to the laptop sucking as it is due to a small child knocking the laptop off the desk and it incurring a four-foot drop onto the floor
[07:18] <Kamion> quite impressed it survived otherwise unscathed actually
[07:20] <mjg59> Lathiat_: Uh. In what situation?
[07:20] <Lathiat_> mjg59: opening my laptop lid
[07:21] <Lathiat_> the screen stays (presumably dpms) off
[07:21] <Lathiat_> turns on as soon as i move the mouse or whatever
[07:21] <Treenaks> Kamion: http://www.atoker.com/tmp/protection.png
[07:21] <Lathiat_> Treenaks: :)
[07:22] <mjg59> Lathiat_: Sounds like we're not getting a lid event when you open the lid
[07:22] <Lathiat_> mjg59: oh?
[07:22] <Lathiat_> mjg59: thats quite possible actually i used to have problems with it not vtswitching back
[07:22] <CarlFK> Kamion - what is the preseed line I need to select a dictionary?
[07:22] <Lathiat_> how do i debug that?
[07:22] <Lathiat_> (sometimes it worked, sometimes it didnt
[07:23] <Kamion> CarlFK: that question isn't supposed to be asked; it will be suppressed
[07:23] <Kamion> Treenaks: heh
[07:23] <CarlFK> Kamion - ok, Ill keep hitting enter
[07:23] <mjg59> Lathiat_: Easiest way is to check /var/log/acpid
[07:23] <mjg59> It'll log each event it handles
[07:24] <Kamion> CarlFK: but look at the wamerican/wbritish .config scripts and you should be able to work it out
[07:24] <ogra> Treenaks, i didnt know you had a SoC project :)
[07:24] <Treenaks> ogra: I don't... just repasting links :)
[07:24] <ogra> hehe
[07:24] <CarlFK> hitting enter a few times sounds easier ;)
[07:24] <ogra> Treenaks, i know :)
[07:24] <Lathiat_> mjg59: hrm, it seems to
[07:24] <Lathiat_> nto quite sure whats what really
[07:24] <Treenaks> Kamion: have you seen #14007 (WEP/restricted mode b0rkage in installer)
[07:24] <Lathiat_> but it seems to execute lid.sh twice
[07:24] <Lathiat_> due to the lid button
[07:25] <Kamion> Treenaks: yes
[07:25] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok :)
[07:43] <Chipzz> hi... sorry for asking this, I tried a while ago on #ubuntu, nut no-one could answer my question there... I have been running breezy since hoary was released, but somehow I'm missing the splash-screen image file... can anyone tell me what package generates it? I have checked packages.ubuntu.com, but no success
[07:44] <CarlFK> Chipzz - figure out what isn't doing what it should be and file a bug report
[07:44] <Chipzz> CarlFK: that is /exactly/ the problem - I do not know against which package to file a bug
[07:45] <Chipzz> the boot splash image is .xpm.gz file somewhere in /boot, so I suppose it is actually generated
[07:45] <CarlFK> if onone answers, take a guess.  it will get corrected.
[07:45] <jdub> Chipzz: it's compiled into usplash
[07:46] <jdub> we're not using evil bootsplash at all
[07:46] <Chipzz> jdub: dunnow what exactly is used
[07:47] <ryanthiessen> Chipzz, instructions here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-August/010208.html
[07:47] <Chipzz> ryanthiessen: thx a lot!!! :)
[07:47] <jdub> Riddell: it is slightly challenging, requiring a usplash rebuild at this stage
[07:47] <jdub> Riddell: have you redone the kubuntu logo with the new ubuntu font (particularly the k)?
[07:48] <Riddell> jdub: didn't even know there was a new font
[07:49] <Riddell> jdub: where to find it?
[07:49] <jdub> Riddell: apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
[07:50] <Chipzz> ryanthiessen: hmmm, I have apt-get installed usplash, lsb-base and initramfs-tools are up to date, but it still cant find an image :/
[07:50] <Chipzz> root@Vertex:~ # dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-7-686
[07:50] <Chipzz> ...
[07:50] <Chipzz> Searching for splash image... none found, skipping...
[07:52] <jdub> Chipzz: run mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd...<yourkernelversion>
[07:52] <jdub> Chipzz: there is no separate image file
[07:52] <jdub> Chipzz: i believe that reference is from grub
[07:52] <Riddell> jdub: new valgrind looks fine, kcachegrind uses callgrind which doesn't like valgrind 3 but debian doesn't pacakge callgrind so it's no loss.  and the kdesdk-scripts rdepend is fine
[07:52] <jdub> Riddell: tops
[07:52] <Chipzz> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/usplash > that would explain
[07:52] <jdub> mdz: approval for valgrind sync?
[07:53] <Chipzz> jdub: it is
[07:56] <Chipzz> hmmm... no luck... still no splash image found
[07:56] <mjg59> Lathiat_: You get two lid events, one on close and one on open?
[07:56] <Chipzz> ow wait
[07:57] <Riddell> jdub: is there actually any difference in that font?
[07:57] <ryanthiessen> Chipzz: that splash image refers to grub, not usplash
[07:59] <Chipzz> ryanthiessen: yes, but that was exactly my question... I don't have /boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz ... so what package takes care of installing that file?
[07:59] <Keybuk> hmm, random
[08:00] <Keybuk> should we change the grub image to be like the usplash one?
[08:00] <lamont> seb__: aroudn?
[08:00] <Chipzz> hmm lemme reboot to check
[08:00] <Chipzz> BBIAB
[08:00] <jdub> Riddell: yes, quite substantial
[08:00] <jdub> Keybuk: i'm actually playing with that now :)(
[08:01] <jdub> Chipzz: nothing installs that file
[08:01] <Chipzz> so how does it get there?
[08:01] <jdub> it doesn't
[08:01] <jdub> we don't ship a grub splash
[08:01] <lamont> infinity: you awake?
[08:01] <Chipzz> so that message actually doesn't relate to the boot splash?
[08:01] <ryanthiessen> Chipzz: if you want one, download one or make one and put it there :-)
[08:02] <jdub> Chipzz: not at all, that's what i said :)
[08:02] <Chipzz> fsck
[08:02] <Chipzz> firefox just crashed on me :P
[08:02] <Chipzz> ah well
[08:03] <jbailey> I didn't think we did a grub image on Breezy install...
[08:03] <jbailey> Seems like it just risks complicateing serial setups.
[08:04] <jbailey> Or console over ethernet
[08:04] <jdub> we don't
[08:04] <Mitario> mako, ping
[08:05] <lamont> jdub: how much do you know about cairo vs glitz and what should/shouldn't need libglitz to build?
[08:05] <Chipzz> the boot splash worked :)
[08:05] <Chipzz> very nice :)
[08:05] <jdub> lamont: nothing should use libglitz to build at this stage
[08:05] <lamont> sigh
[08:06] <Chipzz> thx people! :)
[08:07] <jdub> it's way sassy
[08:08] <jdub> it has the sass
[08:08] <pitti> bah, daniels completely broke my X :-(
[08:14] <Keybuk> well, that totally barried the world
[08:14] <bddebian> barried?
[08:14] <Keybuk> yes
[08:14] <Keybuk> network wouldn't work, then gdm wouldn't start
[08:14] <jbailey> bddebian: It's okay.  Hey means "Barri", not "Barry".  We're still not out to get you. ;)
[08:15] <bddebian> You mean buried?
[08:15] <bddebian> heh
[08:15] <Keybuk> no, barried
[08:15] <ogra> *g*
[08:15] <Keybuk> gone the way of the Barry
[08:15] <bddebian> doh
[08:15] <pitti> jbailey: may I humbly ask again for the plan of the libc update? we getting damn close to freezes now...
[08:15] <Keybuk> it's a British thing
[08:15] <jbailey> pitti: Today, if possible.
[08:15] <bddebian> Barry is bad?
[08:15] <pitti> jbailey: ah, good
[08:16] <jbailey> pitti: I got involved in some docteam stuff which is also due in about the same timeframe. =)
[08:16] <Keybuk> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=barried
[08:17] <bddebian> Wow: barry: Someone who reeks of awesomeness.
[08:18] <jbailey> bddebian: I's also a joint of marijuana. =)
[08:18] <bddebian> Aye :-)
[08:18] <bddebian> Damn now I really feel unworthy.  I can't even live up to my own name :-)
[08:19] <jbailey> We'll wrap you in cigarette paper for Hallowe'en...  That way I won't be the only one dressed up at UBZ. =)
[08:19] <Keybuk> what you dressing up as?
[08:25] <jbailey> Keybuk: Dunno yet.  It's about the range where I shold probably start thinking about it, though.
[08:25] <jbailey> It's really annoying to try and pick the morning of the 31st.
[08:26] <Keybuk> hehe
[08:26] <Keybuk> depends on the form for dressing up
[08:26] <Keybuk> some of the stuff I own wouldn't make it through customs
[08:26] <jbailey> Coming into Canada, or returning home?
[08:27] <Keybuk> yes
[08:27] <jbailey> Canadian customs folks aren't that picky unless you've got things made from endangered species.
[08:27] <sivang> jbailey: lol
[08:27] <jbailey> *US* customs, you have a much greater risk of 'crimes of moral turpitude' or some such like that.
[08:28] <Keybuk> hehe
[08:28] <Keybuk> That's used for WHAT?! :p
[08:33] <sivang> jbailey: that terminal problem still hasn't been resovled, right?
[08:34] <sivang> I am still getting this on my irssi terminal
[08:37] <jbailey> sivang: Terminal problem?
[08:37] <jbailey> "I'm not dead yet!"
[08:37] <sivang> jbailey: you recall that irssi terminal screen erasing it self with blue background?
[08:37] <jbailey> Ah, yes.  that still occurs.
[08:37] <sivang> jbailey: anyway, I have to run again :-(
[08:37] <sivang> see you all tommorrow
[08:38] <bddebian> Later sivang
[08:54] <bddebian> jbailey: And you wonder why I have a complex ;-P
[08:54] <jbailey> =)
[09:07] <jdub> hrm, i don't have maila ccess atm
[09:07] <jdub> can someone mail ubuntu-uk and sounder with this?
[09:07] <jdub> http://linuxworldexpo.co.uk/content/view/37/77/
[09:07] <jdub> ^ would be good to have an ubuntu stand in the .org
[09:07] <jdub> Keybuk: ping?
[09:09] <Keybuk> jdub: pog
[09:09] <jdub> n/m, i can post
[09:09] <Keybuk> we're so far ahead of you, we're practically IN THE FUTURE
[09:09] <Keybuk> there's no room in the .org stand
[09:09] <jdub> oh
[09:09] <Keybuk> Jane confused matters by trying to talk to the organisers, who want us to have a ker-$$$ stand instead
[09:09] <jdub> oh
[09:09] <jdub> JANE!
[09:10] <Keybuk> we might be able to stick a bloke in an Ubuntu t-shirt on the end of the Debian stand
[09:10] <jdub> Keybuk: gnome stand is always a fair shot too
[09:10] <Keybuk> yeah
[09:10] <jdub> helps if you're me
[09:10] <Keybuk> actually, Brian hasn't got back to me yet, I should beat him up :p
[09:10] <jdub> ;-)
[09:11] <Keybuk> you've not met Brian Teeman have you?  he's a cool guy; does the .org pavilion every year
[09:11] <jdub> nup
[09:12] <Mithrandir> hmm, october 5th to 6th.
[09:12] <jdub> funny, if i arranged my travel slightly differently, i could've come :)
[09:13] <Keybuk> does remind me that we need to ring the nice lady at the Amsterdam House again
[09:14] <Keybuk> she usually does us a very good deal
[09:18] <Keybuk> why?
[09:18] <elmo> it's shiny
[09:20] <Keybuk> for those who spend all day at home polishing it?
[09:20] <Mithrandir> does there exist any other reason to do stuff than shinyness?
[09:21] <elmo> Mithrandir: the other kind of shiny.  $$$
[09:21] <zul> Mithrandir: because its 3l33t
[09:21] <Keybuk> you can't talk, multi-arch-boy ;)
[09:22] <slomo> elmo: did you already read my query?
[09:22] <edwarddes> if your looking to run xen on your laptop, see the announcement on ubuntu-devel maining list about my summer of code work
[09:22] <jdub> edwarddes: i did, and it's making me itch!
[09:22] <elmo> slomo: eh, pls mail me, I'm busy now and this doesn't look simple or obvious
[09:23] <jdub> unfortunately, i have a policy of only running ubuntu-shipped kernels
[09:23] <slomo> elmo: ok, will do
[09:23] <edwarddes> you may run into issues using the basic kernel configs i provided with laptop hardware
[09:23] <jdub> well, more an oath than a policy
[09:23] <edwarddes> oh, well, if it makes you happier, im working on a more ubuntuish kernel config to ship with it
[09:25] <jdub> it's not really possible to build xen modules separately, is it?
[09:25] <mdz> lamont: ?
[09:25] <elmo> jdub: no
[09:25] <elmo> or more to the point, you need to patch the kernel regardless
[09:25] <Mithrandir> jdub: it's not a module.
[09:25] <edwarddes> no, it modifies a bunch of the i386 arch stuff
[09:25] <Mithrandir> edwarddes: which kernel version have you based it on?
[09:26] <jdub> will there be a day when all kernels are xenabled?
[09:26] <jdub> or are there good reasons to pick and choose
[09:26] <jdub> ?
[09:26] <edwarddes> people are working on merging the xen patches into the mainline kernel tree
[09:26] <Mithrandir> jdub: which is why I think the work done by benno is really nice.  It requires a minimal patch to the kernel and gives you the same performance as Xen.
[09:26] <edwarddes> but you cant have a kernel that will run on native hardware and one that will run on the xen hypervisor
[09:27] <jdub> Mithrandir: hmm. i should check up on what he's doing
[09:27] <jdub> Mithrandir: will be intersting for breezy+1
[09:27] <edwarddes> but once the xen support is in all the kernel releases, it would be simple to modify the ubuntu kernel config and just rebuild with xen
[09:28] <Mithrandir> jdub: http://l4ka.org/projects/virtualization/afterburn/
[09:29] <wasabi> So has anybody actually used Xen to boot windows or are teh mods to extensive to do?
[09:29] <wasabi> without source etc 
[09:29] <edwarddes> with the new VT-x or pacifica extensions that will be availible soon from intel and amd it will work
[09:29] <Mithrandir> wasabi: the mods aren't redistributable.
[09:29] <wasabi> Ahh.
[09:30] <wasabi> So I can find them, somewhere. ;)
[09:30] <edwarddes> they facilitate full virtualization at a hardware level
[09:31] <wasabi> Awesome.
[09:31] <wasabi> Can't wait.
[09:35] <pitti> To continue, enter "Ja"; to abort, enter "Nein": Ja
[09:35] <pitti> bah, that looks *so* ugly
[09:35] <pitti> yay partial l10n
[09:35] <ogra> pitti, not for your granny ;)
[09:36] <ogra> at least you get that its asking for Ja or Nein even if you dont understand english :)
[09:36] <pitti> yes, and granny won't have a clue what is the correct answer...
[09:36] <bddebian> heh
[09:36] <ogra> ;)
[09:53] <slomo> elmo: sent the mail... when you have further questions just ask here :)
[10:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: luma upstream is asking if we can sync from Debian.  It should be safe, according to him.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: (it's a merge, 'cause of the python version.), but would you mind?
[10:16] <ogra> anything that depends on it ?
[10:16] <Mithrandir> python-smbpasswd, it seems
[10:17] <ogra> i.e. anything that could break or cause extra work ?
[10:17] <Mithrandir> it's just a recommends, not a depends
[10:17] <Mithrandir> so I doubt it
[10:17] <ogra> go for it :)
[10:21] <Mithrandir> willdo
[10:27] <kayfelix> hey people. I have a sound problem. Everything is there, running, looking peachy... but no sound. System beep works over the speakers though, so im pretty sure HW is all setup and working. Its an AC'97 Realtek onboard soundcard on an ASROCK K7S41GX mainboard, im running kubuntu and to be honest, am completely at a loss as to what to do next.
[10:27] <ivoks> that too :)
[10:28] <ogra> :)
[10:29] <ivoks> if only nvidia would open source it's drivers :)
[10:31] <ivoks> you know there is a bounty 30.000$
[10:31] <ivoks> for person that will make nvidia driver S3 suspend and bring it back to life
[10:33] <bddebian> Heya Seveas
[10:34] <Seveas> hi barry
[10:45] <mpt> npnufn
[10:48] <ivoks> mpt: bad day? :)
[10:50] <mpt> ivoks: No, I just noticed that word in the splash screen :-)
[10:50] <mpt> ubuntu
[10:50] <mpt> npnufn
[10:50] <ryanthiessen> ha!
[10:50] <ivoks> :)
[10:51] <chmj> mpt: that ubuntu when you read it upside down
[10:56] <bddebian> Apparently you people don't have enough to do. ;-P
[10:56] <lamont> hrm... so all these i386 packages that have libglitz.la in their .la files, but no Depends: libglitz1-dev, I can do -build uploads of without anyone screaming, yes?