[12:04] <ajmitch> jbailey: yeah, he was in the channel a day or two ago
[12:04] <ajmitch> he doesn't need much mentoring, though
[12:08] <jbailey> Right, he made it through being a DD, so it shouldn't be much.'
[02:59] <mgalvin> hi all
[03:03] <jbailey> Heya
[03:08] <rmflagg> Does anyone know what could have happened when the "Default" or "Last" setting in GDM no longer functions?  GDM also no longer asks me if I want to change my default setting.
[05:00] <Burgundavia> are the planet.gnome rss feeds down for anyone else?
[05:24] <Burgundavia> how the hell do I commit to our svn server again?
[05:39] <jbailey> The Ubuntu-docs builds fine and appears to be reasonably correct.
[05:40] <jbailey> The kde directory doesn't build at all.  I'm getting XML errors, and there's two trivial bugs in the rules file.
[05:40] <jbailey> Right now, it's doing a make -C kde/, which isn't needed.
[05:40] <jbailey> By policy you have to be starting in the kde directory.
[05:40] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:40] <Burgundavia> our main kde person has apparently jumped ship (Sean Wheller)
[05:41] <jbailey> I can spend tomorrow doing cleanup work on it.
[05:41] <Burgundavia> that would be great
[05:41] <jbailey> But it would probably help if I had commit rights to the repository.
[05:41] <jbailey> How do I arrange that?
[05:41] <Burgundavia> talk to elmo
[05:41] <Burgundavia> I have no objections, and I doubt anyone else would
[05:41] <jbailey> Who's the team load for the docteam?  It would help to at least cc: the person on the email to elmo.
[05:42] <Burgundavia> we don't relaly have one
[05:42] <jbailey> But I'll upload ubuntu-docs in a moment, and clean it up during preview freeze so that everything looks at it right.
[05:42] <jbailey> Fair enough.
[05:43] <Burgundavia> cool
[05:43] <Burgundavia> can you do the yelp hacking as well?
[05:43] <jbailey> Yeah.
[05:46] <rob^> Burgundavia, when did sean leave?
[05:47] <Burgundavia> rob^, there is a post to the list
[05:47] <Burgundavia> he comes and gos
[05:47] <Burgundavia> rob^, a while back
[05:47] <rob^> just got in from work
[05:48] <rob^> back when he was going on about that open learning thing?
[05:48] <Burgundavia> earlier
[05:48] <rob^> must of missed it
[05:50] <rob^> did you know he wrote a book about Ubuntu recently?
[05:51] <Burgundavia> yes, I got the Toc for review
[05:51] <rob^> yeah same
[05:51] <Burgundavia> very much a Sean doc
[05:51] <Burgundavia> lots of verbage
[05:51] <rob^> yeah
[05:52] <rob^> it was very long, I thought they had sent me a copy of the actual book when I first opened it
[05:52] <jbailey> I've sent the request to elmo now.
[05:55] <rob^> jbailey, do you have elmos email address? I need to get a new password for svn
[05:55] <jbailey> james.troup@canonical.com
[05:56] <rob^> thanks
[05:58] <jbailey> Oh, I see.  This doc package will have to be done tomorrow.  mgavin's made an assumption about it being possible to have a deep debian/ directory which isn't strictly doable.
[06:39] <jeffsch> rob^: ping
[06:39] <rob^> jeffsch, pong
[06:39] <rob^> whats up?
[06:39] <jeffsch> i was just looking at the faq guide...
[06:40] <jeffsch> it has profiles for os="kde"
[06:40] <rob^> yes, some
[06:40] <rob^> brb
[06:40] <jeffsch> but do we actually produce a kde version?
[06:43] <rob^> no, not for breezy
[06:43] <rob^> the plan is to do a kde version, I have started some work on it but haven't had time to do heaps
[06:44] <rob^> I mean, you could, but it would mainly only be about gnome apps
[06:44] <rob^> at the moment
[06:45] <jeffsch> ok good. I'll ignore the kde stuff then.
[06:45] <rob^> yeah ok :)
[06:45] <rob^> making the package I take it?
[06:46] <jeffsch> i just made some big changes to getting-started.xml. Can you take a look at it?
[06:46] <rob^> ok 
[06:46] <jeffsch> rob^: no. not making any packages. just reviewing.
[06:46] <rob^> ok
[06:47] <jeffsch> i also wanna ask about question 1.5 on it. It says to use GnomeBaker instead of Nautilus.
[06:47] <rob^> I was going for more a dedicated app rather then nautilus
[06:48] <rob^> its what I use, but either way would suffice
[06:48] <Burgundavia> if you have an iso, right-clicking works
[06:48] <Burgundavia> as gnome-baker needs to be installed
[06:48] <jeffsch> ah. Maybe add Nautilus as an additional method
[06:48] <Burgundavia> umm, there is no need for gnomebaker
[06:49] <rob^> your talking about How do I burn the ISO onto a CD-R(W)?
[06:49] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:50] <rob^> yeah, the nautilus way would be easier for that
[06:50] <jeffsch> ok. i will change it.
[06:50] <rob^> ok np
[06:51] <jeffsch> i also changed the style of the question, from "how to..." to "how do I..."
[06:51] <jeffsch> if there is any reason to keep, "how to..." then i can change it back
[06:51] <Burgundavia> there are a lot of How to
[06:51] <rob^> most of that was a hang over from ubuntuguide
[06:52] <Burgundavia> maybe a general search replace for them might be good
[06:52] <rob^> yep
[06:52] <jeffsch> some are "how do I" and some are "How can I..."
[06:52] <Burgundavia> hardware 5 (palmos devices) is completely wrong
[06:53] <rob^> I dont own a palm so I couldnt check that
[06:53] <Burgundavia> I do, will check it with my laptop
[06:53] <rob^> ok thanks
[06:54] <jeffsch> Burgundavia: you will fix it then?
[06:54] <Burgundavia> do we not have a section for the ATI drivers?
[06:54] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, yes
[06:54] <rob^> ditto
[06:54] <Burgundavia> hmm, maybe the first item on user admin should not be "how to enable root account"
[06:55] <rob^> heh
[06:55] <rob^> it is a FAQ though
[06:55] <Burgundavia> we are also promoting Ubuntu Best Practices, which is sudo
[06:56] <Burgundavia> rob^, the sound stuff needs to extensively overhauled
[06:57] <Burgundavia> because esd has undergone some major changes in Breezy
[06:57] <rob^> yes, its changed a bit now
[06:57] <Burgundavia> I have the latest right now
[06:57] <rob^> but they have only been recent
[06:57] <Burgundavia> the dmix stuff? that is a least a month old
[06:57] <rob^> I have been going nuts tracking all the changes lately
[06:58] <jeffsch> Burgundavia: you can fix that stuff too then
[06:58] <Burgundavia> ahh
[06:59] <Burgundavia> rob^, to answer my previous question, is there an ATI section?
[06:59] <rob^> not currently
[06:59] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:00] <Burgundavia> BinaryDriverHowto/ATI is pretty good
[07:00] <Burgundavia> rob^, do you want me to tell you the changes or just make them?
[07:00] <rob^> go ahead
[07:02] <Madpilot> dumb newbie-to-SVN question: once all that stuff is on my computer, I can just open the files normally, right? the tutorial isn't totally clear to me...
[07:03] <rob^> I just sent some diffs in, dam my svn account
[07:04] <jeffsch> Madpilot: yep. just open and modify in place.
[07:04] <Madpilot> OK, thanks
[07:06] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, you want to apply those patches?
[07:06] <jeffsch> rob^: you can't remember your password? It should be in the email elmo sent you
[07:06] <jeffsch> Burgundavia: ok
[07:06] <rob^> yes, its encrypted with my gpg key which I no longer have
[07:07] <jeffsch> :(
[07:07] <rob^> tell me about it
[07:07] <rob^> thats why you haven't seen much work from me in the last week or so
[07:08] <Burgundavia> rob^, why do the DVD stuff point at RestrictedFormats>
[07:08] <Burgundavia> ?
[07:08] <rob^> after some advice I got from mdke and others it was recommended that we point users to the wiki when it comes to things like this
[07:09] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:09] <Burgundavia> fair enough
[07:09] <rob^> due to the legal issues with using/distributing libdvdcss2
[07:09] <rob^> covering our asses mainly
[07:10] <rob^> same with w32codecs and libdivx4linux
[07:10] <ajmitch> even that is dubious, I heard
[07:10] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:11] <Burgundavia> I am thinking we should just kill this section on sound
[07:11] <Burgundavia> because dmix replaces all of it
[07:11] <rob^> now that it has been fixed up, I agree
[07:11] <Burgundavia> the only thing we should keep is the flash one
[07:11] <Burgundavia> sudo ln -fs /usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesd.so.1
[07:11] <Burgundavia> that one
[07:13] <rob^> hmm scorched3d still has dependencies problems
[07:13] <Burgundavia> so, any objections to renaming 
[07:13] <Burgundavia> "How to configure sound to work properly in GNOME?" to "How do I get sound working with Flash?" and removing all but that section?
[07:13] <rob^> no, go ahead
[07:14] <ajmitch> rob^: oh? motu bug then
[07:14] <rob^> libwxgtk2.4 (>= 2.4.2.6ubuntu1) but it is not installable
[07:14] <Madpilot> Scorched3d better be workign in Breezy - it's the only reason I need a 3d card... ;)
[07:15] <ajmitch> rob^: right, I'll fix that up when I get home
[07:15] <rob^> yeah, I added it to the game section in the FAQ Guide..
[07:15] <rob^> ajmitch, ok thanks
[07:15] <ajmitch> it looks to be fixed, but the fix failed to build :)
[07:15] <rob^> hah
[07:16] <rob^> remove clipboard and smeg, yep I was going to do that myself
[07:18] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:19] <Burgundavia> is there a &smeg for the smeg menu item?
[07:20] <Burgundavia> rob^, ^
[07:21] <rob^> Applications -> System Tools -> Smeg Menu Editor
[07:21] <rob^> heh, you mean in the .xml
[07:21] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:21] <rob^> if it isn't in there, then most likely no
[07:22] <rob^> matt went through and did them
[07:22] <Burgundavia> where do I add them?
[07:23] <rob^> gnome/menus/C
[07:24] <Burgundavia> hmm, so I added smeg.xml
[07:25] <Burgundavia> but it still is spitting errors out at me
[07:26] <rob^> just do something like <para os="gnome"> &smeg; </para>
[07:26] <rob^> I think you may need to include it at the beginning of faqguide.xml
[07:26] <Burgundavia> nope, need to edit gnome-menus.ent
[07:27] <rob^> oh, sorry you need to edit gnome/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent
[07:27] <rob^> ah yeah
[07:27] <Madpilot> For XHTML docs, should I be using "charset=UTF-8" instead of "charset=ISO-8859-1"?
[07:27] <rob^> which would include it
[07:28] <Burgundavia> ah
[07:28] <Burgundavia> there is arlready something
[07:28] <rob^> Madpilot, yep
[07:28] <Burgundavia> &menu-editor
[07:28] <Madpilot> rob^: thanks
[07:28] <rob^> ah
[07:29] <rob^> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
[07:29] <rob^> bbs
[07:30] <Burgundavia> tips and tricks 6 and 7
[07:31] <Burgundavia> killall nautilus and gnome-panel
[07:31] <Burgundavia> these are horrible hackish solutions we shouldn't promote
[07:36] <Madpilot> but sometimes needed, no? esp. when adding things to the panels?
[07:36] <Burgundavia> no
[07:36] <Burgundavia> gamin now works
[07:36] <Madpilot> rob^: this is actually an XHTML doc still, not XML - I'm going to leave converting it to full XML to someone who knows XML...
[07:36] <Burgundavia> and killing gnome-panel causes all kinds of joy
[07:37] <Madpilot> but it's now fully w3c-compliant XHMLT 1.0 Transitional, FWIW...
[07:38] <Burgundavia> which?
[07:38] <Burgundavia> tips and tricks 20 (synaptic is quite redundant)
[07:39] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: the Quick Tour - I've been finishing the code for it off
[07:39] <Burgundavia> cool
[07:39] <Madpilot> adding DocTypes and all the good stuff we left off when we first hacked it together
[08:03] <rob^> back
[08:04] <rob^> synaptic?
[08:04] <rob^> 10.22 should be removed
[08:05] <rob^> redundant
[08:06] <rob^> and 10.23 would be better done with either synaptic or apt-get/aptitude
[08:06] <rob^> the uninstall bit anyway
[08:08] <rob^> Burgundavia, you will also need to do a find and remove for the answers that refer to killall gnome-panel too
[08:08] <Burgundavia> ya
[08:08] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[08:08] <Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco 
[08:08] <rob^> hi jsgotangco 
[08:08] <Burgundavia> rob^, what is the link for that?
[08:09] <rob^> it will look something like:
[08:09] <rob^>                             <listitem os="gnome">
[08:09] <rob^>                                 <para>Read <xref linkend="refreshgnomepanel"/>
[08:09] <rob^>                                 </para>
[08:09] <rob^>                             </listitem>
[08:09] <rob^> all that will have to be removed
[08:10] <Burgundavia> how do I grep all the files in a dir?
[08:10] <rob^> umm..
[08:10] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: -R 
[08:10] <Madpilot> resursive
[08:10] <Madpilot> recursive, even...
[08:10] <rob^> find '*.xml' -exec something..
[08:11] <rob^> to remove all that
[08:11] <rob^> probaby need a couple of regexes
[08:11] <Burgundavia> that is very odd
[08:12] <jsgotangco> err guys we are about to package some stuff for the preview release jbailey is the one helping out
[08:12] <rob^> or you could just pop open gedit and do it
[08:12] <jsgotangco> im not familiar how it was done in hoary..anyone have a clue?
[08:12] <Burgundavia> the diff in the emails says I removed this line "<question>" just above "<para>How to install/uninstall .deb file?</para>", but it isn't removed in my version
[08:12] <Burgundavia> can someone svn up and confirm that>
[08:12] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:12] <rob^> hold on
[08:14] <rob^> I got:
[08:14] <rob^>                         <question>
[08:14] <rob^>                                 <para>How to install/uninstall .deb file?</para>
[08:14] <rob^>                         </question>
[08:14] <Burgundavia> ok, that is correct
[08:14] <rob^> after a svn up
[08:14] <Burgundavia> the diff in the email is wrong
[08:14] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, ewww on the ubuntu logo
[08:15] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it is a hacked
[08:15] <Burgundavia> version. I am going to take the svg and export tot eh correct size
[08:15] <Burgundavia> "my Ubuntu" or just "Ubuntu">?
[08:15] <jsgotangco> Ubuntu
[08:15] <rob^> hmm so I see
[08:16] <rob^> svn is on crack
[08:16] <Madpilot> "my <anything>" is far too Microsoft-like...
[08:16] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: the messy Ubuntu logo on the quick tour is actually my fault, but it is just a placeholder...
[08:17] <jsgotangco> that was awful
[08:17] <Burgundavia> even MS is dropping My for Vista
[08:18] <rob^> vista is such a crap name for an OS
[08:18] <rob^> I still refer to it as "longhorn"
[08:18] <rob^> which is almost as crap..
[08:18] <Madpilot> Virusta...
[08:19] <rob^> but then theres "Ubuntu".. :)
[08:19] <ajmitch> which at least means something
[08:20] <rob^> zingggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
[08:20] <rob^> yeah, I know
[08:21] <Madpilot> I still might register "www.windowsvirusta.com", if only for the pleasure of selling it back to MS... ;)
[08:22] <rob^> you might get a free xbox and mcse like that mike rowe soft kid
[08:22] <Madpilot> then I could ebay the Xbox and get something useful...
[08:23] <rob^> its "Vista" anyway
[08:23] <HrdwrBoB> wow, a free MCSE
[08:23] <HrdwrBoB> I wouldn't take it free
[08:24] <jsgotangco> its free its still good
[08:24] <jsgotangco> its still worth something to other employers
[08:24] <rob^> thats right
[08:24] <Burgundavia> anybody else think that Installing Applications is far too wordy?
[08:24] <HrdwrBoB> yes, but I don't want to work with windows :)
[08:24] <rob^> Burgundavia, the phrase?
[08:25] <Burgundavia> no, the section
[08:25] <HrdwrBoB> I could probably get an MCSE, and I'm about that level, but argh
[08:25] <rob^> HrdwrBoB, nither do many of the rest of us, but that tends to be where the work and money is
[08:25] <Burgundavia> indeed
[08:25] <Burgundavia> but the jobs suck
[08:25] <jsgotangco> its still money
[08:25] <jsgotangco> all of us need it one way or another
[08:26] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:26] <rob^> yep, hence I lock my self in my unix server room as much as I can
[08:26] <jsgotangco> i actually did a demo of the OpenCD to a group of students yesterday
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> rob^: there's plenty (and more everyday) of linux work around
[08:26] <rob^> Burgundavia, you should have seen how wordy it used to be
[08:27] <Burgundavia> ouch
[08:27] <rob^> HrdwrBoB, yes but most jobs require you to have ms certs also
[08:29] <rob^> I removed about 40% of what used to be there
[08:30] <rob^> the first question was twice as long as that before
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> rob^: not in my experience
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> though I'm in sysdamin in australia
[08:34] <rob^> so am I
[08:34] <rob^> its just who I do it for is different
[08:35] <rob^> then the norm, anyway
[08:36] <rob^> grr this lack of commit access really sucks
[08:37] <Burgundavia> where are the menu entries again?
[08:37] <rob^> gnome/ something
[08:50] <Burgundavia> wow security is full of crap
[08:51] <rob^> yeah just a bit
[08:51] <rob^> I think it should be scraped and redone
[08:51] <rob^> but like I said, no commit password :(
[08:51] <Burgundavia> honestly, there isn't anything more than the following two things
[08:51] <Burgundavia> 1. Keep up to date
[08:51] <Burgundavia> 2. Don't install software from untrusted sources
[08:52] <rob^> when it comes to Linux, yes they are the two key things
[08:52] <Burgundavia> shall I burn it down to those 2?
[08:52] <Burgundavia> and maybe one about adding a firewall
[08:52] <rob^> but some of the other things are important when going to a LUG meeting with your box :)
[08:53] <Burgundavia> if you go to lug meetings, you should know what to do
[08:53] <rob^> kill nessus too
[08:53] <rob^> heh yeah
[08:53] <Burgundavia> and you are unlikely to be looking at this doc for advice
[08:53] <rob^> you haven't seen some of the members of my lug
[08:53] <rob^> its half tafe students
[08:54] <Madpilot> just sent the Quick Tour diff off to the list, fully of shiny XHTML goodness
[08:54] <Madpilot> rob^: tafe students? who/what is tafe?
[08:55] <Burgundavia> rob^, so can I go to town on the security section?
[08:55] <rob^> yep
[08:56] <rob^> tafe students are like adult student things
[08:56] <rob^> umm like poor mans uni/collage
[08:57] <rob^> its a funny thing
[08:57] <HrdwrBoB> heheh
[08:57] <rob^> you can do an IT diploma there
[08:57] <Madpilot> adult continuing ed, like?
[08:57] <HrdwrBoB> Madpilot: not really
[08:57] <HrdwrBoB> Madpilot: but some of them
[08:57] <HrdwrBoB> Madpilot: more like... vocational skills
[08:58] <HrdwrBoB> tafe also does the trade stuff
[08:58] <Madpilot> ah, OK. 
[08:58] <HrdwrBoB> chippies, sparkies, etc
[08:58] <rob^> yep
[08:58] <HrdwrBoB> my mother works at a tafe teaching english to migrates and illiterate people
[08:58] <jsgotangco> that doesnt sound so bad its still education
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> jsgotangco: yeah but it won't get you anywhere professionally
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> in terms of IT
[08:59] <jsgotangco> oh its that bad then
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> it's not necessarily bad, but it's not valued by most employers for anything over a gopher position
[08:59] <rob^> yeah I did an it diploma many years ago, tell me bout it
[09:01] <rob^> its kind of the equiv of doing a trade
[09:01] <Madpilot> I was looking at the web design diploma at our local college, and it really seems more like a Macromedia diploma...
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[09:02] <Madpilot> plus the fact that the web design program's servers have now been down for a week+ doesn't inspire confidence!
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> it might teach YOU how to do things
[09:02] <HrdwrBoB> but that's all it's ultimately for
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> my problem is I'm biased towards professional IT, and as such discount tafe stuff mostly offhand, plus I'm a bit of an arsehole
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> so take it all with a grain of salt :)
[09:08] <jsgotangco> wow lock screen now works
[09:08] <jsgotangco> even sound mute
[09:08] <jsgotangco> !!!
[09:11] <Burgundavia> grr
[09:11] <Madpilot> ?
[09:11] <Burgundavia> generic/faqguide/C/security.xml:44: parser error : Entity 'firestarter' not defined
[09:11] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, toshiba hotkeys
[09:12] <Burgundavia> but it freaking works!!!
[09:12] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: ah, OK...
[09:16] <Burgundavia> ok I have a conflict
[09:16] <Burgundavia> validate is spitting up an error at me, but the doc works
[09:17] <Burgundavia> should I commit?
[09:17] <Madpilot> hmmm... does ./validate.sh work on HTML/XHTML docs as well as XML?
[09:17] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, faqguide?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:17] <Burgundavia> the error I just posted
[09:17] <jsgotangco> are you validating security.xml itself?
[09:18] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:18] <jsgotangco> try validating faqguide.xml instead
[09:18] <Burgundavia> just did, that works
[09:19] <jsgotangco> it should work because security.xml is not a complete docbook 
[09:19] <jsgotangco> it just starts with <chapter>
[09:20] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[09:20] <jsgotangco> i get tons of errors
[09:21] <jsgotangco> cleanup the unknown entity called "refreshgnomepanel"
[09:21] <jsgotangco> its an unkown ID
[09:21] <Burgundavia> grr
[09:22] <Burgundavia> need to kill those
[09:22] <jsgotangco> (no idea where that entity is )
[09:22] <Burgundavia> dead
[09:22] <jsgotangco> "refreshgnomepanel" is the only thing you need to kill
[09:22] <Burgundavia> I already did
[09:22] <jsgotangco> commit again and i'll check
[09:22] <Burgundavia> but the references are not
[09:23] <jsgotangco> its still there
[09:23] <jsgotangco> in a big number of lines
[09:28] <jsgotangco> i can fix this but i'll have to open up all the docs and check
[09:29] <Burgundavia> already did
[09:30] <jsgotangco> ahh there its now clean
[09:31] <jsgotangco> ahh right daniels said it was fixed already on -56 but the repo still hasnt refreshed
[09:31] <jsgotangco> it still has -54
[09:32] <rob^> ah the joys of having kids
[09:37] <Madpilot> rob^: what were they lighting on fire this time? ;)
[09:37] <rob^> nah mainly puking all over me
[09:38] <Madpilot> we talking "quite ill" or "very very small"?
[09:38] <rob^> very wise :P
[09:38] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: I really, really can't see C as a a mom, it just doesn't compute...
[09:39] <rob^> very very small
[09:39] <rob^> well one is
[09:39] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, no
[09:40] <Burgundavia> how do I apply a diff?
[09:41] <jsgotangco> kids are great
[09:41] <jsgotangco> especially when they say i love you daddy
[09:41] <jsgotangco> people who didnt expererience being parents wont know the feeling
[09:41] <Burgundavia> of vomit on their clothes, that is
[09:42] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: is that before or after they puke?
[09:42] <jsgotangco> neither
[09:42] <jsgotangco> if its your kid you wouldn't mind
[09:42] <jsgotangco> children are after all very vulnerable
[09:42] <jsgotangco> thats why the world made parents to protect them
[09:44] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, how do I apply a diff?
[09:45] <jsgotangco> patch -p0 patch.diff file.xml
[09:45] <jsgotangco> wait
[09:46] <jsgotangco> file.xml first then patch.dff
[09:46] <jsgotangco> robitaille, you're not serious
[09:46] <rob^> heh yep
[09:46] <robitaille> :)
[09:50] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, applied
[09:50] <Madpilot> thanks
[09:51] <Madpilot> svn up - lots of stuff - how come neither FF nor Opera can parse some of those xml files?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, do you follow doc-team commits?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, they are docbook
[09:52] <Madpilot> and DocBook isn't XML as regular browsers understand it, right?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> it is a type of XML
[09:56] <Madpilot> nevermind, just found the wiki info on opening stuff in Yelp...
[09:57] <jsgotangco> the new OOo 2 can actually save documents as docbook
[09:57] <rob^> breezy decided to install both OOo1 and OOo2 the other day
[09:57] <Madpilot> that's cool, and will make things much easier for Doc teams everywhere, I hope...
[09:58] <rob^> heh we will see about that..
[09:58] <rob^> could make things worse
[09:59] <rob^> like Burgundavia said
[09:59] <Madpilot> yeah, if it cranks out buggy code, then it's worse than useless...
[09:59] <rob^> just look at wysiwyg html editors
[09:59] <Madpilot> rob^: exactly...
[10:02] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, are updates supposed to be seen instantly after uploading or is there a certain amount of time that it gets updated?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, updates to Ubuntu?
[10:03] <jsgotangco> yes Breezy specifically
[10:03] <Burgundavia> there is a nightly cron job to apt-get update
[10:04] <Burgundavia> as for telling the user, I think the icon-thingy polls about every 5 minutes
[10:04] <Burgundavia> doesn't update, just looks to see if there are some indicated by a previous update
[10:04] <jsgotangco> nvm, daniels' update just appeared
[10:04] <Burgundavia> there is also a complicate schedule for building
[10:04] <jsgotangco> this should fix my Xorg now
[10:05] <Burgundavia> things are build and then twice an hour moved to the repos
[10:05] <jsgotangco> well the daily build is scheduled
[10:05] <Burgundavia> 03 and 33
[10:06] <Madpilot> need sleep - having to work at 0900 bites. g'night, all
[10:06] <jsgotangco> hmm at least an hour and a half after upload
[10:17] <rob^> heh
[10:17] <Burgundavia> ?
[10:17] <rob^> working tomorrow
[10:17] <rob^> :)
[10:17] <jsgotangco> hmm its almost a month since i last worked in an office
[10:29] <Burgundavia> well, night all
[10:30] <rob^> night
[10:37] <jsgotangco> is it just me or are the fonts in frefox breezy look really vague in the wiki
[10:38] <rob^> yeah
[10:38] <rob^> msttcorefonts
[10:39] <jsgotangco> even white looks really washed up
[12:26] <jsgotangco> later guys im quite tired already
[12:27] <klepas> nn
[12:27] <klepas> :-)
[12:27] <rob^> cya
[03:11] <mgalvin> g'morning all
[03:12] <rob^> morning
[03:13] <rob^> hes*
[03:13] <highvoltage> hehe
[03:15] <rob^> i'm trying to get them to "hack" me
[03:15] <rob^> so far the best then can do is "scare" me with ctcps
[03:37] <jjesse> morning :)
[04:57] <jbailey> mgalvin: Around?
[05:22] <mgalvin> jbailey: hi, i am here
[05:26] <jbailey> mgalvin: Heya - The bits inside the gnome directory references things outside of it.
[05:26] <jbailey> So having the debian directory buried in there isn't really going to work.
[05:26] <mgalvin> yea, that the not normal part i was talking about
[05:27] <mgalvin> this is the way it has been for a while as far as i know, what would you recommend doing
[05:28] <jbailey> Do you intend for the KDE and Gnome ones to be the same source package?
[05:28] <jbailey> Or should they be completely separate and duplicate where needed?
[05:28] <jbailey> (Or have a common base for other things?)
[05:28] <jbailey> If you haven't thought about it, no worries. =)
[05:29] <mgalvin> gnome and kde are separate and the common stuff is the stuff we ref ..
[05:29] <jbailey> Right.
[05:29] <jbailey> It wants the stuff from ../
[05:29] <jbailey> Works fine when I build it from the svn tree.
[05:29] <jbailey> But the souce package doesn't have the final bits in it.
[05:31] <mgalvin> i guess it would be easier/quicker for now to just dup the common stuff for now, then later we can make a proper ubuntu-docs-common type package (or something similar)
[05:32] <jbailey> I can do both just as easily.
[05:32] <jbailey> So I'll aim for that then.  Hmm.
[05:32] <jbailey> Although I guess that means a source tree reorg...
[05:33] <mgalvin> ok, if you can whip up -common, that would be cool
[05:33] <mgalvin> yea which is something that would require a bit more discussion with the rest of the team
[05:35] <jbailey> 'k, I'll whip it up separate for now.  I'd like to just do -common so the ftp masters don't beat me.
[05:36] <jbailey> kde also didn't build, I'm guess I'll need to clean that up.
[05:36] <jbailey> I've asked for write access to the SVN repo.
[05:38] <mgalvin> sounds good, if you need anything committed to svn for now, let me know, i can commit it for you until your commit access is set up
[05:47] <jbailey> Cool.
[08:13] <jbailey> for the split into -common and such...
[08:13] <jbailey> During development, will it be acceptible to require that the -common package bits be installed into the  correct locations?
[08:14] <jbailey> I'm wondering how I'll ask the build to look *either* in ../common *or* in /usr/share/ubuntu-docs-common/...
[08:40] <mgalvin> jbailey: i would say ../common would be best for now
[08:40] <jbailey> Right, but the packages versions have to build based on stuff in /usr/share/...
[08:41] <jbailey> That's why I was originally wondering if it should be one big source package for all of the docs.
[09:24] <mgalvin> hmm, i don't have any objects to having everything in one package, but i don't how the other members would feel about that
[09:25] <mgalvin> jbailey: we don't have much time left to open a discussion about it, i would say just do what you need to do to get it to work and for breezy+1 we will come up with a better structure and packaging method
[09:26] <jbailey> 'kay.  I'll glue it all together as I want and get it uploaded.
[09:45] <mgalvin> great