[12:08] <jbailey> I seem to be able to resolve www.ubuntu.com, but not archive.ubuntu.com, anyone else seeing this
[12:08] <jbailey> ?
[12:09] <lllmanulll> Works with me
[12:09] <lllmanulll> tiramisu ~/icons>ping archive.ubuntu.com
[12:09] <lllmanulll> PING archive.ubuntu.com (82.211.81.151) 56(84) bytes of data.
[12:09] <lllmanulll> 64 bytes from 82.211.81.151: icmp_seq=1 ttl=48 time=45.7 ms
[12:09] <lllmanulll> 64 bytes from 82.211.81.151: icmp_seq=2 ttl=48 time=44.3 ms
[12:09] <lllmanulll> --- archive.ubuntu.com ping statistics ---
[12:09] <lllmanulll> 2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 1001ms
[12:09] <lllmanulll> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 44.316/45.025/45.734/0.709 ms
[12:09] <lllmanulll> tiramisu ~/icons>
[12:10] <jbailey> Thanks, seems to work now.  Weird.
[12:10] <mpt> lllmanulll unclogged it
[12:11] <lllmanulll> Right :)
[12:11] <lllmanulll> Hey, anybody knows what's up with the Google's Summer of Code project ?
[12:11] <lllmanulll> I've been trying to contact seb128 all day, but he's unreachable
[12:13] <mpt> lllmanulll: seb128 was here until 8 hours ago
[12:14] <ajmitch> morning
[12:14] <mpt> timezone problems, perhaps
[12:15] <lllmanulll> Well, he came online a few times, but didn't respond to my /query
[12:15] <lllmanulll> And we're on the same timezone
[12:15] <lllmanulll> Anyway, nevermind :)
[12:15] <Kamion> perhaps try mail instead
[12:39] <zul> is the wiki down?
[12:40] <elmo> works for me?
[12:40] <zul> hmm....that sucks
[12:40] <mjg59> WORKSFORME NOTABUG
[12:42] <Burgundavia> zul, others have been reporting issues with the wiki
[01:14] <sladen> gah, why do I have too many channels?
[02:21] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, synaptic didn't make it yet into Rosetta?:)
[03:43] <lamont> mdz: I have a list of libglitz.la depending packages that I need to discuss with seb128, and then probably upload a few of them for rebuilds to finish that transition completely
[03:44] <lamont> just as an oh-by-the-way
[03:45] <lamont> (sadly, gcc-4.0 and gimp appear to be on that list - hence my need to talk with seb128 before I go fixing things..)
[03:50] <lamont> mdz/seb128: specifically, the following packages (in at least 1 of the 3 architectures) have /usr/lib/*.la files which contain the string "libglitz.la", but do not Depend on any libglitz package:
[03:50] <lamont> dia-newcanvas gcc-4.0 gcompris gimp gtkgl2 gtkglext libctk libquicktime libsigcx somaplayer
[04:01] <lllmanulll> Lots of people need seb128 now :)
[04:03] <lamont> lllmanulll: well, truthfully speaking, I could just upload -build kicks of all of those (and it's possible that I will need to), but I'd like to check first.
[04:08] <lamont> queue forms to the left. :-)
[04:09] <dereks> lamont: haha
[04:10] <lllmanulll> hehe, I guess he's sleeping, and will come back in about 6 hours ? :)
[04:10] <lamont> sounds about right
[04:11] <lllmanulll> But he's my 'mentor' for the Google 'Summer of Code' program, which deadline is about... huh... right now
[04:11] <bddebian> Doh
[04:11] <lllmanulll> Couldn't get to him for the whole day, must have been pretty busy
[04:17] <dereks> lllmanulll: what was your project?
[04:20] <lllmanulll> dereks, "Gnome panel enhancements"
[04:20] <lllmanulll> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomePanelEnhancementsIdeas
[04:36] <ryanthiessen> lllmanulll: looks great
[04:36] <lllmanulll> ryanthiessen, Thanks :)
[04:39] <ryanthiessen> it's a small thing compared to the rest of what you did, but I'm quite looking forward to the separator :-)
[04:39] <lllmanulll> Ah :)
[04:39] <lllmanulll> Unfortunately, I don't think it will make it for breezy
[04:39] <ryanthiessen> d'oh
[04:40] <lllmanulll> Well, I guess it's up to seb128 :)
[04:40] <lllmanulll> But the freeze are already passed, aren't they ?
[04:40] <lllmanulll> s/freeze/freezes
[04:40] <ryanthiessen> so much of the great SoC projects didn't make breezy :-(
[04:40] <lllmanulll> Right... The freezes were a bit early
[04:41] <lllmanulll> But breezy++ will be even better :)
[04:42] <ryanthiessen> it's going to just miss firefox 1.5 too, I imagine there will be a lot of people using backports
[04:42] <lllmanulll> Well, I need some sleep now (4:42 am here)  :)
[04:43] <ryanthiessen> g'night 
[04:43] <lllmanulll> If seb128 comes back, tell him I desperately need him :-p
[04:43] <lllmanulll> Good night :)
[04:44] <jsgotangco> mm?
[04:44] <jsgotangco> we have firefox 1.0.6
[04:45] <jbailey> Are newer firefox revisions really adding that much that people are desperate to get them?
[04:45] <ajmitch> new shiny things
[04:45] <xhaker> jbailey, check the ff roadmap
[04:47] <xhaker> but i wouldn't say desperate.. but if breezy ships with 1.5 then it has 100+ points.. heh
[04:47] <xhaker> has=would have
[04:47] <jsgotangco> we have a freeze schedule
[04:47] <ajmitch> xhaker: rather unlikely, I'd say
[04:47] <jsgotangco> not a good idea to go against it
[04:47] <xhaker> i'm not the one bringing this up
[04:48] <xhaker> i've just given my opinion
[04:48] <jbailey> xhaker: I've always found the firefox plans a bit weak,  since they say things like 'feature complete', witout providing a URL to the list of features. =)
[04:49] <xhaker> jbailey, i think they've improved a bit now, with this deer park 
[04:49] <xhaker> should i call it approach?
[04:49] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[04:49] <ryanthiessen> jbailey: the feature I'd like most is that the dialog box popups are replaced by error pages -- but I'm not arguing against the freeze
[04:49] <xhaker> they look like they care now
[04:50] <jbailey> Cool.
[04:50] <jbailey> I have to admit to using ephy, so it's alwyas the core bits that I want.
[04:50] <jbailey> And I've been pining for useful svg for years, another few months won't hurt me. =)
[04:50] <xhaker> not only that, the new engine, the svg support, the fixed back/forward behavior.. to name a few 
[04:51] <ryanthiessen> jbailey: I use ephy too -- and when it's built against ff1.5 it will get that feature too :-)
[04:51] <lamont> jdub: you awake?
[04:51] <xhaker> ryanthiessen, you can have the error pages now, just have to edit some wierd key
[04:51] <jbailey> lamont: He was at like 2pm our time.
[04:52] <jbailey> rebooting, justasec
[04:55] <jdub> lamont: i am now!
[04:55] <jdub> lamont: thanks very much!
[04:55] <lamont> jdub: ??
[04:55] <jdub> lamont: was a lovely dream about fountains and meadows!
[04:55] <jdub> and WATERFALLS!
[04:55] <jdub> AND THEN YOU COME AND WAKE ME UP!
[04:55] <lamont> what - computer beeps and wakes you up???
[04:55] <jdub> heh
[04:55] <jdub> no
[04:55] <lamont> you should mute that when you sleep...
[04:55] <jdub> i am just having a morning hate
[04:56] <lamont> heh
[04:56] <lamont> but I should be able to subscribe the hacky-address
[05:02] <lamont> success. :-)
[05:05] <ryanthiessen> xhaker: do you recall what that key is?
[05:07] <xhaker> browser.xul.error_pages.enabled
[05:07] <xhaker> set to true
[05:07] <ryanthiessen> thanks!
[05:07] <xhaker> the only gripe i have with it is that the address changes in the editbox
[05:07] <xhaker> try it and you'll see what i mean
[05:10] <xhaker> haha, ryanthiessen i have just discovered another way :P
[05:10] <ryanthiessen> xhaker: you mean the address bar?  it's not doing that for me right now...
[05:10] <xhaker> it used to
[05:10] <xhaker> i didn't enable it before because of that
[05:11] <xhaker> i'm trying out tor.. and it spits out a nice 403 page in the browser too :P
[05:15] <wasabi> jdub: nm rewriting resolv.conf sucks because it also overwrites nameservers added by VPNs. THAT"S WHY. I had forgotten my real reason earlier. ;)
[05:15] <jbailey> wasabi: C'mon, tell us how you really feel. =)
[05:15] <wasabi> Haha.
[05:16] <wasabi> I had just brought up how that annoyed me a few days ago, but I couldn't remember WHY
[05:16] <jbailey> It also would toast any other resolv options that folks wanted in there by hand.
[05:16] <jdub> wasabi: the whole point of NM rewriting resolv.conf and using bind is to handle complex situations like internet+VPN name resolution
[05:16] <wasabi> Well, that doesn't work, right now, because VPNs don't yet play nice. =/
[05:17] <wasabi> Or do they and mine is just broke?
[05:17] <jdub> mmm, hopefully soon there'll be better support for static profile configuration and things like openvpn
[05:17] <jdub> indeed, it could be very soon if you wrote it! :)
[05:17] <wasabi> RIght now I use pon, it uses resolvconf
[05:17] <wasabi> so it merges with my existing config.
[05:17] <wasabi> ANd it works great, until nm clobbers resolvconf
[05:18] <jdub> and NM is *intended* to be a whole new world
[05:18] <jdub> you could either:
[05:18] <jdub> a) add better support for static profiles
[05:18] <jdub> b) add support for whatever vpn software you're using
[05:19] <wasabi> What are the deficienes with resolvconf, so I can think NM is better?
[05:19] <wasabi> deficiencies.
[05:19] <jdub> resolv.conf won't let you use different DNS servers for different networks
[05:19] <wasabi> I mean resolvconf without the .
[05:20] <jdub> it's mostly irrelevant
[05:20] <wasabi> Oh?
[05:20] <jbailey> jdub: Err..  Are you planning on chewing on glibc's resolver code with this?
[05:20] <jdub> jbailey: hrm?
[05:21] <wasabi> So... I know you might think this is silly.
[05:21] <wasabi> But can bind start on !53?
[05:21] <jbailey> Perhaps you mean something different by that.  I interpreted what yousaid as "I have two interfaces, ppp0 to the Internet, and eth0 to my local lan.  I can refer traffice for ppp0 to an external nameserver, and traffic for eth0 to an internal nameserver based on routing"
[05:21] <wasabi> And can glibc know of it?
[05:21] <wasabi> I realize bind is a much better resolver engine than plain ol resolv.conf
[05:21] <jdub> jbailey: yeah
[05:21] <wasabi> But I do run some local copies of bind for test configs and stuff.
[05:21] <bob2> wasabi: why? bind it to localhost.
[05:22] <jdub> (which is what NM does with it)
[05:22] <wasabi> Yes, but I run my own copy of bind.
[05:22] <wasabi> Sometimes. For development stuff.
[05:22] <jdub> sudo netstat -pan | grep $(pidof named)
[05:22] <wasabi> I guess I could run my own copy on !localhost heh
[05:23] <bob2> yeah
[05:23] <jdub> wasabi: make a new lo on 127.0.0.2 :-)
[05:23] <wasabi> oh!
[05:23] <wasabi> Hah! 
[05:23] <wasabi> Great idea!
[05:23] <wasabi> Thinking outside the box!
[05:23] <bob2> haha
[05:24] <wasabi> Such a crazy concept never occured to me.
[05:24] <bob2> good thing they gave a whole /8 to loopback
[05:24] <jdub> Kamion: ping
[05:24] <wasabi> I don't think I have ever considered making a new lo for anything ever.
[05:26] <wasabi> I have no complaints now.
[05:26] <wasabi> Carry on.
[05:27] <wasabi> jbailey: man-di has sort of taken over Eclipse and I'm letting him, in Debian anyways. He's sorta working on it a lot now, and I just don't have time.
[05:28] <wasabi> Soon as he gets his feature complete with mine, and breezy is out, i'll sync it.
[05:28] <jdub> sometimes it is painful watching technology changes in progress, NM is a rough one
[05:28] <wasabi> Work is just kicking my ass.
[05:29] <wasabi> Wonder if I can make NM run on .2 heh
[05:29] <wasabi> brb
[05:39] <xhaker> wonder if NM should always run on .2
[06:14] <hub> ghawd
[06:14] <hub> I have to repatch pmount
[06:14] <hub> I hate filenames in uppercase
[06:35] <jsgotangco> what the heck i see jdub, bob2 and chmj  in the xscreensaver prompt
[06:36] <lamont> specifically, my fix for 14130
[06:36] <Burgundavia> lamont, I have one
[06:36] <lamont> Burgundavia: wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/postfix_2.2.4-1ubuntu2 and install it - it shouldn't ask you any questions
[06:37] <lamont> (this is assuming that you haven't mucked with debconf priorities, and that you still have the hoary version of postfix installed beforehand)
[06:38] <Burgundavia> lamont, I have a pure hoary install, just a sec
[06:39] <lamont> cool... if it does ask for mailer type, then I'll go ahead and make myself a fresh install to play with
[06:39] <Burgundavia> lamont, getting a 404
[06:40] <lamont> gah
[06:41] <lamont> Burgundavia: wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/postfix_2.2.4-1ubuntu2_i386.deb
[06:41] <lamont> :-(
[06:47] <lamont> daniels: imlib+png2 build says: In file included from cache.c:5:
[06:47] <lamont> gdk_imlib_private.h:104: error: syntax error before 'XShmSegmentInfo'
[06:49] <lamont> p.u.c/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/i/imlib+png2/1.9.14-16.2ubuntu2/imlib+png2_1.9.14-16.2ubuntu2_20050901-1255-i386-failed.gz 
[06:51] <jsgotangco> lamont, installed
[06:51] <jsgotangco> i get a postfix configuration
[06:52] <lamont> jsgotangco: you got a question?
[06:52] <lamont> sigh
[06:52] <lamont> well, that's something for my list tomorrow then
[06:52] <jsgotangco> yep postfix configuration screen
[06:54] <lamont> grumble
[07:18] <jdub> at least one of the gtk2hs guys uses ubuntu :-)
[07:18] <jdub> http://www.haskell.org/gtk2hs/gallery/Cairo-demo/Cairo_demo_8
[07:18] <jdub> (the dude doing cool cairo work!)
[07:19] <whiprush> rock

[07:22] <whiprush> jdub: I think mjg59 is a bad influence on me.
[07:24] <jsgotangco> pretty long blog for anger
[07:25] <whiprush> yeah
[07:25] <whiprush> ok, so feel good story of the day, I showed my boss the new usplash stuff.
[07:26] <whiprush> And he was like "feel free to not get charged vacation time for your next ubuntu trip."
[07:26] <whiprush> schwing!
[07:26] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:29] <jdub> whiprush: woo!
[07:29] <jdub> whiprush: "oh, by the way boss, THAT'LL BE IN OCTOBER! THANKS!"
[07:30] <jsgotangco> jdub, you are so prominent on the xscreensaver prompt heh
[07:30] <whiprush> me too.
[07:30] <whiprush> I thought g-s was the default until I did a fresh install the other day
[07:30] <Burgundavia> xscreensaver is so 90's
[07:30] <jsgotangco> this was during the smackdown at the hotel
[07:31] <jsgotangco> everyone was kinda drunk already
[07:31] <whiprush> then I realized I had switched to it previously.
[07:31] <Burgundavia> whiprush, I hear rumours of it being default for .14
[07:31] <whiprush> I would welcome that.
[07:32] <jdub> jsgotangco: scary.
[07:32] <Burgundavia> along with g-p-m and fusa
[07:32] <whiprush> Burgundavia: oooh oooh, NetworkManager too
[07:32] <whiprush> by then it should be in great shape
[07:32] <jsgotangco> "someone else" doesn't jive
[07:32] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:33] <jsgotangco> "login as a new user" perhaps?
[07:33] <whiprush> I hate the lull periods before a release. It tends to make you go "ooh, +1 will just be so awesome."
[07:34] <jsgotangco> well that's the time people clean up
[07:34] <jsgotangco> for end users they just wait...
[07:34] <Burgundavia> oh god xscreensaver is a cludge
[07:35] <whiprush> jdub: so apprently calvin@novell is converting his desktop to ubuntu so they can provide ifolder packages.
[07:35] <Burgundavia> whiprush, you serious?
[07:35] <whiprush> yep.
[07:35] <Burgundavia> nice
[07:35] <jsgotangco> ifolder crack
[07:36] <whiprush> I was surprised to find quite an iFolder
[07:36] <whiprush> presence on the ubuntu site.  I'm hoping to build packages for all of
[07:36] <whiprush> our stuff and place them on our web site so people can just add it to
[07:36] <whiprush> their apt sources.
[07:36] <jdub> whiprush: like most of the rest of them ;)
[07:36] <whiprush> yeah
[07:36] <whiprush> I hung out with one of their hula interns, at boston they can run whatever they want
[07:36] <jdub> we should invite him to join MOTU instead of maintaining a separate repo
[07:37] <Mithrandir> whiprush: we should MOTUise him, yes
[07:37] <whiprush> apparently ubuntu is the overwhelming favorite.
[07:37] <whiprush> I believe Martin has been corresponding with them over email.
[07:37] <whiprush> I'm idling in #ifolder, I will mention it to calvin soon.
[07:37] <jsgotangco> Mez did the backport right?
[07:37] <whiprush> No
[07:38] <whiprush> It's a pain right now
[07:38] <jsgotangco> ahh
[07:38] <whiprush> they're working on making it more better repackageable though.
[07:38] <whiprush> For one, their simple server is now a seperate package, etc.
[07:39] <whiprush> which would open the whole thing up for easy deployment, right now you have to build the server out of cvs, etc.
[07:39] <Burgundavia> the other thing that could use some repackagable love is banshee
[07:39] <whiprush> well, they've patched stuff up to make it easier to build in ubuntu
[07:40] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: tseng is on it
[07:40] <whiprush> they're really receptive to us at the moment
[07:40] <whiprush> tseng is all over it
[07:40] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: don't worry, the mono team is rocking at the moment
[07:40] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, cool. Muine is pissing me off right now
[07:40] <Mithrandir> is iFolder stuff going to be in breezy (universe)?
[07:40] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: tell me your problems..
[07:40] <whiprush> I kind of feel bad for them, right now it seems that our users are more receptive to their projects than the opensuse community
[07:41] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: could be, if it's ready & we get an exception for it
[07:41] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: well, if nothing depends on it, it's an easy exception. :-)
[07:41] <whiprush> Mithrandir: it's a bitch to build, you'll have to ask tseng. I'm not holding my breath
[07:41] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, the notification area control causes muine is sef fault
[07:42] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: yeah, we've got some freeze policies for universe though
[07:42] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: ok, amd64?
[07:42] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, i386
[07:42] <ajmitch> hm, filed a bug on it?
[07:43] <ajmitch> sadly most of the mono apps got demoted to universe due to various reasons
[07:44] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, not yet. I didn't get very good feedback from tseng about bug filing on muine. I think he also dislikes Malone
[07:44] <ajmitch> he doesn't like the unreproducible bugs 
[07:44] <ajmitch> I'll also watch muine bugs, though
[07:45] <Burgundavia> I need to test on my fresh breezy install box
[07:45] <ajmitch> right
[07:45] <Burgundavia> then I will file
[07:45] <Burgundavia> but I cannot get my laptop online at home, due to my ISP
[07:46] <HrdwrBoB> due to your ISP?
[07:46] <ajmitch> that's unfortunate
[07:46] <whiprush> jdub: so ... large appliances that cool things. Update?
[07:46] <jdub> working on it
[07:46] <Burgundavia> MAC acdy restirction, only 2 machines get real address. I am too broke to buy a router
[07:46] <whiprush> cool.
[07:46] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: we'll have to ship you one
[07:46] <ajmitch> :)
[07:46] <Burgundavia> only have a hub right now
[07:47] <ajmitch> the other boxes are running linux?
[07:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:47] <Burgundavia> I really should set up my desktop box to be a router, but meh
[07:47] <ajmitch> why not play the one-armed router hack, and use NAT?
[07:48] <Mithrandir> or just do MAC spoofing
[07:48] <Burgundavia> laziness
[07:48] <ajmitch> or better, have 2 NICs in the box
[07:48] <tepsipakki> argh.. why oh why does wlan-modules get loaded before wired ones..
[07:48] <Burgundavia> and I don't know where my extra NICs are
[07:51] <ajmitch> hm, using my camera as usb mass storage device doesn't work when its battery is flat, what a pain 
[07:52] <pitti> Morning
[07:52] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[07:52] <ajmitch> how are you?
[07:53] <jbailey> pitti: Hey..
[07:53] <jbailey> pitti: Your update actually even works better than the previous one =)
[07:53] <jbailey> pitti: A number of strings that weren't showing up localised before now are =)
[07:53] <whiprush> pitti!
[07:54] <pitti> Hi ajmitch 
[07:54] <pitti> ajmitch: great, thanks! :-)
[07:54] <pitti> jbailey: wow, that's really unexpected... :-)
[07:54] <pitti> hi whiprush 
[07:54] <jbailey> pitti: I thought it might be. =)
[07:55] <pitti> Hi daniels! Just replied to the X breakage mail
[07:57] <carstenh_> morning pitti
[07:57] <pitti> Hi carstenh_ 
[07:57] <pitti> carstenh_: do you have fire for me? :-)
[07:58] <carstenh_> pitti: not yet, after the breakfast :)
[07:59] <whiprush> jdub: volvoguy is local to me and I just caught up on their list; if they need hosting then I've jsut mailed him offering unlimited hosting for whatever they need.
[08:01] <whiprush> hmm, has the art team been that hard up for hosting?
[08:02] <jdub> nup
[08:02] <jdub> they seem to think they're waiting for art.ubuntu.com to go live, but they don't actually need it to do artwork :)
[08:02] <whiprush> oh I see.
[08:03] <wasab1> Do we have a methodology for packaging add-on modules and making sure they get compiled for each new kernel release?
[08:03] <wasab1> For instance, mac-on-linux.
[08:03] <jdub> wasab1: no, we've tried very hard to avoid it
[08:04] <jdub> putting all our modules in the linux-image build
[08:04] <wasab1> Ahh.
[08:04] <wasab1> Can MOL fit in there?
[08:05] <wasab1> And, ancilliary to this question, I am trying to compile MOL and cannot figure out how to get it to install into /lib/2.6.12-7-powerpc, long name, etc.
[08:05] <wasab1> make-kpkg is not agreeing
[08:05] <CarlFK> are the torrents at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current actually being used?  I get the feeling nothing is seeding them
[08:05] <jdub> CarlFK: possibly not; ask elmo or Znarl 
[08:06] <wasab1> Bah. I am this |  | close to just hand moving them in there.
[08:06] <jdub> wasab1: you have to change the version in the makefile
[08:06] <jdub> i forget
[08:06] <jdub> long time since i've built my own
[08:06] <jdub> YAY!
[08:06] <wasab1> Agreed, Yay.
[08:06] <wasab1> Too bad these modules aren't in the archive. =(
[08:07] <CarlFK> wow - 550K/s eta 20 min to wget the live image.  who cares about BT?  ;)
[08:08] <wasab1> Hmm.
[08:08] <wasab1> .torrent files should support a HTTP file path in them, in case of no seeds.
[08:08] <wasab1> Byte-range gets could be used.
[08:09] <wasab1> Would make a torrent self seeding.
[08:09] <CarlFK> well, that assumes 2+ extra steps: tweek the torrent, tweek the client, put the file on a web server
[08:10] <CarlFK> I think it would make more sense for the person creating the torrent to just seed it ;)
[08:10] <wasab1> sure, but HTTP can be mirrored, like Ubuntu is.
[08:10] <wasab1> I guess you could run seeds on each mirror. Anyways, just sounds like a nice little feature.
[08:10] <CarlFK> the mirros could just be BT clients
[08:11] <tepsipakki> kamion: around?
[08:13] <jdub> HA HA HA HA HA
[08:13] <jdub> whiprush: "hope fumes"
[08:13] <jdub> ha ha ha ha
[08:13] <whiprush> :(
[08:13] <whiprush> It's not funny.
[08:13] <CarlFK> here is my idea how to use BT to replace the current mirror system: http://p2p.noreply.org/p2p/DirDistribution
[08:13] <whiprush> I really do hope
[08:14] <pitti> elmo: polygen sync, please
[08:18] <pitti> elmo: affix sync, please
[08:24] <pitti> Moins mvo
[08:25] <pitti> elmo: zsync sync, please
[08:26] <ajmitch> hi mvo 
[08:27] <mvo> hey pitti, hi ajmitch 
[08:27] <mvo> good morning all
[08:28] <pitti> elmo: python2.3 sync, too (that was the last one for today, promised :-) )
[08:29] <ajmitch> elmo: and for me, scummvm & f-spot sync
[08:29] <pitti> jbailey: do you know whether ia32-libs will disappear by breezy?
[08:31] <pitti> jbailey: I'm asking because it still has a vulnerable zlib version, so whether I need to fix it or not
[08:46] <pef> morning
[08:46] <pitti> Hi pef
[08:50] <tepsipakki> bah, there seems to be no way to tell the kernel to load e100 before orinoco on install?
[08:54] <JaneW> hey doko
[08:54] <JaneW> :)
[08:56] <doko> good morning, JaneW, yes I've network access again, the central access point of my provider in Berlin was damaged ...
[08:58] <JaneW> doko: sounds bad - glad you managed to get back...
[09:04] <pitti> Hi doko
[09:05] <desrt> doko; so what's the story with this mouse wheel business?
[09:10] <pitti> Hey seb128 
[09:11] <seb128> hey hey pitti
[09:11] <pitti> Hi kronoss 
[09:11] <kronoss> hi pitti 
[09:13] <doko> desrt: tell me, what information you need? did you get feedback from the other guys?
[09:13] <desrt> doko; was it on the bug?
[09:13] <desrt> doko; it'd be good if you can identify what event devices corresponds to your mouse and see if wheel events register there
[09:14] <desrt> doko; basically, one by one run hd /dev/input/event0, event1, event2 etc
[09:14] <desrt> and move the mouse around to see
[09:14] <seb128> desrt: so this wm crasher is an upstream issue :)
[09:14] <desrt> then once you find it see if wheel events are reported
[09:14] <desrt> seb128; yes it is.  and there's a patch available
[09:15] <desrt> 315000 iirc
[09:15] <seb128> I've just read elijah's and yours comment
[09:15] <seb128> thanks guys
[09:15] <desrt> thank the guy who found it :P
[09:15] <desrt> i tried looking for it for about an hour... i was just lost
[09:20] <desrt> doko; wb.
[09:20] <desrt> doko; did yo catch the instructions?
[09:23] <doko> desrt: didn't save them, I'll try a clean install first, to rule out upgrade problems, but not today
[09:24] <desrt> doko; k.
[09:48] <sivang> morning all
[09:49] <sivang> anybody has an idea why when you don't have enough room on /boot, and you were attempting kernel upgrade which failed in the middle, you get left without network getting weird erros of permission denied when trying to get a lease?
[09:49] <sivang> (/me is curious to understand how that works)
[09:52] <sivang> I was getting the permission denied errors although I was root, on the SIOCSIFADDR and freinds..
[09:57] <sivang> seb128: morning, did you get my email from a couple of days ago about the gimp?
[10:06] <seb128> sivang: probably, was that something that should get a reply?
[10:07] <thesaltydog> Just upgraded from hoary to breezy with a dist-upgrade. I am experiencing a tremendous performance loss. Each disk access is longer, even starting the terminal takes twice than before..
[10:13] <sivang> seb128: not really, just one more thing - should I continue with gnome-applets? (or is it too late now since we're reaching/in preview freeze)
[10:14] <seb128> sivang: you can continue for after preview
[10:15] <sivang> seb128: k, cool. I'd be interested in seeing your patch to gimp, are you making a plugin for it, or just going to plain hackish way? ;)
[10:16] <seb128> sivang: I'm not going to write a plugin for sure, why should I?
[10:16] <sivang> seb128: I second that, but when I discussed that with neo over #gimp, he said that would be the best way to allow it to stand future changes and patches, and would be much easier to maintain since the core is likely to change...
[10:17] <thesaltydog> There is a bug in pango that has been fixed few days ago (Gnome Bug 312075). This bug makes Anjuta unusable. Is it going to be fixed in Breezy too?
[10:18] <seb128> sivang: yeah, I agree, but writting a plugin is some work
[10:18] <seb128> thesaltydog: are pango guys going to roll a new tarball?
[10:19] <thesaltydog> I am not in contact with them, just trying to use my Anjuta and found this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312075
[10:19] <seb128> thesaltydog: 312075 states that's no a pango bug
[10:19] <doko> seb128: did you get my message yesterday about the untranslated messages in gnome-panel (Applications/Places/System)? They are translated in the de.po file, but appear untranslated in the panel
[10:19] <thesaltydog> seb128, they say there is a pacth.
[10:19] <seb128> "Both scintilla and Anjuta were fixed and released recently.
[10:19] <seb128> "Both scintilla and Anjuta were fixed and released recently."
[10:19] <seb128> for anjuta yep
[10:19] <seb128> not pango
[10:20] <seb128> doko: nop
[10:20] <sivang> seb128: oh well, maybe if we see that it's being broken in the future, we'll make a plugin out of it..
[10:20] <seb128> doko: what de.po file?
[10:20] <thesaltydog> seb128, sorry I was believing that scintilla widget was something related to pango
[10:20] <seb128> thesaltydog: np, but it's not
[10:20] <seb128> sivang: like for every single other patch
[10:21] <thesaltydog> seb128, anyway.. could I count again on my anjuta in the near future, or should I switch back to hoary?
[10:21] <sivang> seb128: right ;)
[10:21] <doko> seb128: there's only one in gnome-panel?
[10:21] <seb128> thesaltydog: ask on #ubuntu-motu, that's an universe package
[10:21] <thesaltydog> seb128, ok
[10:22] <seb128> doko: gnome-panel doesn't ship any .po, they are stripped by language-packs ... do you use a language-packs, a local build ... ?
[10:22] <pitti> Connecting to cdimage.ubuntu.com|82.211.81.176|:80... failed: Connection refused.
[10:22] <pitti> hmmm
[10:22] <pitti> who killed cdimage?
[10:28] <ogra> Kamion, ping
[10:30] <jdub> elmo: planet update whenever you're ready
[10:30] <jdub> elmo: it's for tin tin
[10:31] <pitti> ogra: ah, the http proxy of my provider died, apparently
[10:31] <ogra> heh
[10:31] <pitti> not funny...
[10:32] <ogra> cant you work around that ? 
[10:32] <sivang> pitti: you should switch the another
[10:32] <pitti> sivang: there is no other provider, otherwise I would have done that ages ago
[10:33] <doko> seb128: according to pitti, language packs are not yet merged from rosetta ...
[10:33] <doko> seb128: I'm just wondering, why it's available in french, but not in german ...
[10:34] <doko> where's the difference?
[10:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, last night's server install seems broken, dash isn't copied in.
[10:34] <sivang> pitti: :(
[10:34] <sivang> doko: lol
[10:34] <seb128> doko: pitti creates language packs by hand
[10:35] <seb128> doko: strace -e open gnome-panel and grep for gnome-panel.mo to know which one it tries to open
[10:35] <seb128> doko: gnome-panel-2.0.mo
[10:42] <sivang> pitti: what's does the guy mean in #12694 with "Remote CUPS queue" ?
[10:43] <pitti> sivang: well, a remote CUPS server
[10:43] <sivang> pitti: ah, like a another machine running cups and the client uses IPP to send printjobs to?
[10:43] <doko> seb128: hmm, how to start gnome-panel with strace? it wants to restart itself ...
[10:44] <pitti> sivang: yes
[10:44] <pitti> sivang: still remember your "Remote CUPS server" patch for g-c-m?
[10:44] <sivang> pitti: yes ofcourse :)
[10:45] <seb128> doko: gnome-session-remove gnome-panel && strace ...
[10:45] <sivang> pitti: it was also 50% yours 
[10:46] <pitti> the backend, yes
[10:48] <ajmitch> pitti: language-selector is yours?
[10:48] <sivang> seb128: what other interesting args does gnome-session have? ;)
[10:48] <sivang> ajmitch: mvo's I think
[10:48] <ajmitch> ok
[10:48] <pitti> ajmitch: mvo
[10:48] <seb128> sivang: that's not an argument
[10:49] <seb128> sivang: gnome-session-remove is a binary
[10:49] <sivang> seb128: doh! sorry, what other interesting binaries then? =)
[10:49] <seb128> dpkg -L gnome-session | grep bin
[10:51] <sivang> seb128: bye
[10:51] <doko> hmm, looks like you can't play that gnome-session-remove game repeatedly
[10:51] <seb128> doko: only if it's startedby the session
[10:52] <seb128> doko: other way it doesn't restart and you don't need it
[10:54] <doko> pitti: why are my locale.gen settings overwritten by installing language packs???
[10:55] <pitti> doko: hm, they shouldn't be overwritten, just some added
[10:57] <doko> pitti: but if there's already a de_DE.UTF-8, it's appended again, and again, and again. I use dpkg-reconfigure locales to get rid of them, and with the next update they appended again :-(
[11:04] <Burgundavia> seb128, are we going with totem-gstreamer or -xine for breezy?
[11:05] <doko> pitti: nice game, with every install/update of a language package, they are appended ...
[11:06] <thesaltydog> after a breezy upgrade from hoary, I am experiencing a great disk performance loss. Whast am I missing?
[11:07] <doko> seb128: ok, I was fooled by the menu items beeing translated, without having language packs installed ...
[11:08] <sivang> pitti_laptop: do you remember what my GUI patch required in order to show the Global Setttings menu entry?
[11:08] <sivang> pitti_laptop: (i.e. something from cups..)
[11:10] <ajmitch> elmo: sync of anjuta from unstable, also
[11:14] <sivang> pitti: what packages includes the backend scripts you did that my gui patch looks for?
[11:14] <pitti> sivang: cupsys
[11:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can I just fix 9213, or do you have some testing you might want to do for that?  I have a patch already
[11:18] <chmj> pitti: ping 
[11:18] <pitti> hi chmj 
[11:20] <sivang> bah! here that irssi gnome-terminal bug again :-/
[11:21] <sivang> pitti: cupsys seem to not have those files, do you have them on your machine?
[11:22] <pitti> sivang: d'oh, indeed - where did they go???
[11:23] <sivang> pitti: I don't know I was shocked they see they vanished , spotted that out when firing up g-c-m from terminal
[11:23] <pitti> sivang: I'll look at it ASAP, but not now; can you please file a bug?
[11:24] <sivang> pitti: ofcourse
[11:24] <pitti> sivang: thanks
[11:26] <zyga> pitti: ping
[11:28] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[11:28] <zyga> pitti: hi, there are more problems with messed up pl.po files
[11:29] <zyga> pitti: I've loaded and fixed another one: kcheckgmail
[11:29] <zyga> pitti: would you take a patch?
[11:29] <Kamion> jdub: pong
[11:29] <Kamion> tepsipakki: yo?
[11:29] <sivang> pitti: bug filed
[11:29] <Kamion> ogra: pong
[11:30] <pitti> zyga: sure
[11:30] <zyga> pitti: I've got a little perl script that can fix this kind of mess if anything else comes up
[11:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, I think something's busted with server installs, although dash is an odd place for it to happen
[11:30] <sivang> pitti: I wasn't able to assign it directly to you, is this new in b.u.c ?
[11:30] <zyga> pitti: ok I'll mail you the diff
[11:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: if you've got a fix for that cp thing, please absolutely feel free to go ahead
[11:30] <pitti> sivang: hm, shuold work, anyway, I assign it myself
[11:30] <Kamion> might want to chuck it upstream too, though I haven't checked their svn lately
[11:32] <ogra> Kamion, what do i have to do to get edubuntu-server back on the CD again ? it vanished
[11:32] <zyga> pitti: mail away
[11:33] <Kamion> ogra: you need to prod me to run 'baz update' on cdimage *cough*
[11:33] <Kamion> ogra: (done)
[11:33] <ogra> heh
[11:33] <ogra> Kamion, what about the preseeding ? 
[11:34] <zyga> pitti: if you want the script it's here: http://www.suxx.pl/tools
[11:34] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, Hi! How do you decide which langpacks ship with the ISO's? How many are shipped nowadays?
[11:34] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: not many any more, since CD space is short; I hope to be able to add some more soon
[11:35] <zyga> pitti: how about putting *only* language-selector .mo files and running it automatically on first run?
[11:35] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, can you give me one number?:) is portuguese one of them? are you based in something like this: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0775272.html?
[11:35] <sivang> Kamion: what would be the right way to invoke build.sh from debian cd to try and build an image? (I have the mirror locally) 
[11:35] <zyga> (sane for CD version)
[11:36] <pitti> zyga: I don't understand
[11:36] <Kamion> sivang: don't
[11:36] <zyga> pitti: don't ship langpacks on the cd - they will most likely be outdated and will take up space
[11:36] <Kamion> sivang: better start from the wrapper scripts in colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0
[11:36] <pitti> zyga: oh, we need to, for people without network
[11:36] <zyga> pitti: ship only all .mo files for language-selector and auto-run it on first login
[11:36] <Keybuk> so, forgive me for being newbie team member, but PreviewFreeze means no uploads unless approved right?
[11:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes
[11:37] <zyga> pitti: then make langpack-cd :)
[11:37] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: pt is shipped on install i386 and amd64, and on live pwerpc and ia64
[11:37] <ogra> i've seen no mail calling out the freeze though...
[11:37] <Kamion> ogra: oops, ok, looking now
[11:37] <ogra> normally mdz sends one
[11:38] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, pt (Portugal) or pt_BR ? 
[11:38] <ogra> Kamion, could you trigger a testbuild afterwards ?
[11:38] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: that contains both
[11:38] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: we only split per-languge, not per-country in addition
[11:39] <pitti> zyga: that collides with our principle of shipping only one CD
[11:39] <zyga> pitti: true
[11:39] <sivang> Kamion: thanks, I want to be able to continue cherry-picking should the current flags won't suffice for CHRP booting
[11:39] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, ok... If I download now the daily build of Breezy I should have a full support of Portuguese? I think I saw a big problem so I need to test it now :)
[11:40] <sivang> pitti: maybe we can hook up some script to get a dbus event and restart cups everytime this happens?
[11:40] <sivang> pitti: (e.g., a new printer is connected)
[11:40] <sivang> pitti: s/dbus/hal/
[11:40] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: if you grab the i386 or amd64 one, yes, it will be there
[11:41] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[11:41] <pitti> sivang: no, that would be crap
[11:41] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, ok... see you in a few minutes .
[11:41] <pitti> sivang: we need to fix the bug, not work around it
[11:41] <ogra> Kamion, yay :-D thanks
[11:41] <Kamion> sivang: you can have a look at how build-image-set in cdimage invokes it
[11:41] <pitti> sivang: the bug is not in cupsys, I thinkj
[11:41] <pitti> sivang: it's somewhere in the gnome level
[11:41] <Kamion> I use build_all.sh though
[11:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the missing dash is an archive-copier problem, it seems.
[11:42] <Kamion> ogra: is the edubuntu.seed you sent me meant to be a renaming of the previous server.seed?
[11:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but archive-copier shouldn't really be doing anything much for server installs
[11:42] <ogra> Kamion, that should be the default seed, not matter how you name it :) 
[11:42] <Kamion> oh, no, sorry, not true
[11:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it copies discover1, but not its deps.
[11:42] <Kamion> ogra: I mean, you don't want workstation.seed to install the server, right?
[11:43] <ogra> Kamion, and the current edubuntu.seed should become workstation and be optional
[11:43] <sivang> pitti: ah I recall you already tried tracing this one, right?
[11:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, blah, I think I understand
[11:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, that's fixable fairly easily
[11:43] <pitti> sivang: no, not really
[11:43] <ogra> Kamion, but i want the server to be the default
[11:43] <sivang> pitti: eh then I mistook that for another bug, sorry
[11:44] <Kamion> ogra: hmm, I'll have to do isolinux/yaboot config fixups then, ugh
[11:44] <ogra> s/server/server+desktop
[11:45] <ogra> Kamion, sorry for that ...
[11:48] <Kamion> ogra: done, amd64/i386 bootloader configs fixed up but not powerpc yet
[11:49] <ogra> Kamion, ok, im only after a working i386 for now... 
[11:49] <sivang> Kamion: I guess just attempting to run this snippet together with creating the CDIMAGE_ROOT won't do much good? ;)
[11:49] <Keybuk> seb128: d'oh, of course, -g forces all variables to be zero-initialised
[11:50] <Keybuk> possibly one of gcc's least helpful behaviours
[11:51] <pitti> Keybuk: wow, thanks for that hint; that could explain a whole lot of heisenbugs I recently saw...
[11:51] <Keybuk> that totally explains the metacity crash
[11:52] <Keybuk> and why it went away when it was compiled for debugging
[11:52] <zyga> pitti: could you explain something to me
[11:52] <pitti> sure
[11:52] <zyga> pitti: yesterday I've manually checked every .po in all langpacks and kde-i18n packages (for polish)
[11:53] <zyga> pitti: why kcheckgmail not among them?
[11:53] <zyga> s/why/why was/
[11:53] <pitti> hm, lemme look
[11:53] <Kamion> sivang: which snippet?
[11:53] <pitti> kcheckgmail |    0.5.0-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe Sources
[11:53] <pitti> zyga: universe packages are not handled by langpacks, just main
[11:54] <pitti> zyga: universe debs ship their own mo files
[11:54] <jsgotangco> ok this works
[11:54] <zyga> pitti: so all universe packages need to be checked manually
[11:54] <pitti> zyga: I suppose, yes
[11:54] <pitti> well...
[11:54] <zyga> pitti: any advice on how to pull all sources from universe repo?
[11:54] <pitti> zyga: I could make it a bit easier for you
[11:54] <pitti> zyga: we indeed import all translations, we just ship main translations in langpacks
[11:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: wow, really? Is that documented?
[11:55] <pitti> zyga: if you are fine with a slightly older tarball (about a week old), I can give you everything
[11:55] <zyga> pitti: all I need are pl.po's for everything - a script can check them automatically and generate fixed ones
[11:55] <zyga> pitti: fine - those errors are probably way older
[11:56] <pitti> zyga: ok: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/breezy-current.zip
[11:56] <zyga> thanks :)
[11:56] <pitti> zyga: that will always contain the most recent archive of all po files
[11:56] <pitti> zyga: generated daily usually, just not right now since we changed the import process
[11:56] <pitti> zyga: beware: 240 MB
[11:56] <Keybuk> Kamion: I don't think so ... I just noticed it once
[11:56] <zyga> pitti: thats fine :)
[11:57] <JaneW> seb128: ping
[11:57] <zyga> pitti: eta 35min, I'll ping you if anything needs fixing
[11:58] <Kamion> ogra: edubuntu rebuild in progress
[11:58] <JaneW> seb128: hello, I was just wondering if you have an update on LaunchpadIntegration. Sivang was asking about it the other day too. Is it ready to progress to green yet?
[11:59] <ogra> Kamion, yay, thanks :)
[11:59] <ogra> JaneW, ^^^
[12:01] <JaneW> YAY :))
[12:02] <tepsipakki> kamion: just needed to know if it is possible to change the order of the network interfaces on install
[12:02] <tepsipakki> kamion: but it seems no
[12:03] <tepsipakki> kamion: at least on my thinkpad the orinoco gets eth0 when I'd like the e100 to have it
[12:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: given the code
[12:04] <Keybuk> int main() { int a; a+=1; printf("%d\n", a); return 0 }
[12:04] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% gcc -O2 -fPIC example.c
[12:04] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% ./a.out
[12:04] <Keybuk> -1208167843
[12:04] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% gcc -g -O0 -fPIC example.c
[12:04] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% ./a.out
[12:04] <Keybuk> 1
[12:05] <Diziet> -davenant:d> gcc -Wall -O1 example.c 
[12:05] <Diziet> example.c: In function `main':
[12:05] <Diziet> example.c:1: warning: implicit declaration of function `printf'
[12:05] <Diziet> example.c:1: warning: `a' might be used uninitialized in this function
[12:05] <Diziet> After I fixed your syntax error.
[12:06] <Keybuk> Diziet: right, it's just an example to show gcc's idiotic "zero-initialise variables in -g so the bugs go away"
[12:06] <Diziet> Or am I missing your point ?
[12:06] <Diziet> It does what ?
[12:06] <Keybuk> see above ... with just -O2 you get a random number
[12:07] <Keybuk> but with -g -O0 you get 1, because the uninitialised variable is set to zero anyway
[12:07] <Keybuk> "gcc is your friend, oh yes"
[12:07] <Diziet> You're changing the -O and the -g at the same time.
[12:07] <Keybuk> right, it's an effect of both
[12:07] <Robot101> Keybuk: an effect of either, or both together? what does -g -O2 do?
[12:07] <Kamion> tepsipakki: not easily; it's just whatever order they get hotplugged in
[12:07] <Keybuk> Robot101: dunno, didn't ever investigate that much
[12:07] <Keybuk> it's not documented behaviour
[12:08] <Keybuk> it's just something gcc does
[12:08] <Keybuk> -O2 or -g -O0 are the two common compilation options
[12:08] <Keybuk> usually you do the latter when something compiled with the former crashes -- and then the bugs go away
[12:08] <Robot101> except Debian builds everything -g -O2 then strips it, don't we?
[12:08] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% gcc -g -O2 example.c
[12:08] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% ./a.out
[12:08] <Keybuk> -1208593827
[12:09] <Robot101> so it's orthogonal to -g, removing zero initialisation is an optimsation
[12:09] <Diziet> In my tests it depends only on -O.
[12:09] <Robot101> but this is a good reason to use compiler warnings and listen to them :P
[12:09] <Keybuk> it could be just the -O, yeah
[12:10] <Keybuk> -O0 (this is the default) ... No it's not!  You changed the default in 4.0 you fools
[12:10] <Diziet> -O1 is sufficient to make it `work'.  And this is probably accidental.
[12:10] <Diziet> To be fair -O0 produces code so verbose it's hard to read the asm by hand.
[12:10] <tepsipakki> kamien: yeah.. a pity
[12:11] <tepsipakki> kamion: now that I have two nic:s, I need to preseed which one to use, and that is quite tricky because all desktops use eth0 ;)
[12:12] <tepsipakki> but doable
[12:12] <tepsipakki> just some blood, sweat and tears
[12:15] <Diziet> The bugzilla is sending me all of these n-m bugreports, which I plan to ignore until breezy+1.  What should I do with them in the bugzilla ?
[12:15] <Keybuk> LATER/REMIND?
[12:16] <Diziet> What does that do ?
[12:16] <Diziet> It would be better if I could somehow send them to the MOTU whose package it is.
[12:16] <Keybuk> nothing in particular, now I think about it
[12:16] <Kamion> IME bugzilla's LATER resolution is a good way to lose stuff
[12:16] <Kamion> Diziet: I can change the default assignee if I know who it should be
[12:17] <Kamion> and you can certainly reassign the existing ones
[12:18] <Diziet> default assignee> Yes, that would be nice but there seems to be no way to find out who to pick !
[12:18] <Diziet> I remember having an IRC conversation with various people yesterday.
[12:18] <Diziet> Why oh why oh why don't we use the Maintainer field ?
[12:18] <Kamion> it was j^, if I remember correctly; let me try and hunt down who that is
[12:18] <Diziet> Oh, yes, it was.
[12:19] <Diziet> Deciding the bug destination based on chasing up the person behind an IRC nick remembered from the previous day hardly seems like a sane process !
[12:19] <Kamion> yeah, I know
[12:20] <Kamion> actually I'm chasing up the URL to his packages and I'll fish it out of the changelog there
[12:20] <Kamion> Jan Gerber
[12:21] <Kamion> I'll mass-reassign all the existing bugs
[12:21] <Kamion> oh, he doesn't have a bugzilla account
[12:22] <Kamion> mutter
[12:23] <Diziet> For future reference, could I do the mass reassign myself next time ?
[12:23] <Kamion> you should be able to, yes
[12:23] <Kamion> find the "change several bugs at once" link
[12:23] <Kamion> (on any bug list)
[12:24] <Diziet> I don't have one of those.
[12:24] <Diziet> AFAICT.
[12:25] <Kamion> go to "Prefs" and then "Permissions"; does it mention "editbugs"?
[12:25] <Diziet> No, only canconfirm.
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: IIRC you can grant people editbugs; could you do so for Diziet? e-mail address in /msg
[12:26] <thesaltydog> my breezy upgrade from hoary is very sloooow. 40 seconds to open an openoffice document, 8 seconds to open a terminal, 7 seconds to open nautilus... where should I start investigating?
[12:27] <thesaltydog> logs look apparently good..
[12:29] <zyga> mvo: morning :)
[12:30] <mvo> hey zyga 
[12:32] <mvo> hey pitti, thanks for your mail
[12:38] <pitti> mvo: how was it?
[12:38] <pitti> mvo: 1.0 I hope :-)
[12:39] <Kamion> ogra: new edubuntu install CDs up
[12:39] <ogra> Diziet, done
[12:39] <mvo> pitti: not quite but close enough! he did pretty well and had nice latex-beamer slides
[12:39] <Kamion> hmm, but still no edubuntu-server, d'oh
[12:40] <JaneW> hmmm
[12:41] <ogra> hmm, and the report somewat exploded...
[12:41] <ogra> oh, mostly ppc... nm
[12:42] <ogra> Kamion, indeed i want netcfg/disable_dhcp; sorry, my fault
[12:42] <mvo> pitti: about this aptitude problem, can you still reproduce it? 
[12:42] <Kamion> ogra: you managed to overflow the CD size on all three architectures, that's why :)
[12:43] <ogra> what is the current allowed size ? i can live with 800MB images :)
[12:43] <Kamion> though I think something else is wrong too
[12:43] <Kamion> CD 1 filled with 647467976 bytes ... (limit was 653262848)
[12:43] <JaneW> kamion: ping
[12:43] <Kamion> 800MB overflows all physical CDs I'm aware of ...
[12:43] <Kamion> JaneW: yes?
[12:43] <ogra> can we make that at least 700 ?
[12:44] <JaneW> kamion: sorry to bug, I know you are V.busy atm, but many of your goals are still listed as WIP in BreezyGoals, I was owndering if there are any updates...?
[12:44] <Kamion> ogra: I'll see what I can do, but you're 91MB over the limit on amd64, 74MB on i386, 112MB on powerpc
[12:44] <Kamion> JaneW: I've been on vacation
[12:44] <JaneW> Kamion: yes I know
[12:44] <ogra> Kamion, that was expected....
[12:44] <Kamion> and firefighting since then, so most of my goals are in the same state as they were at feature freeze
[12:45] <JaneW> Kamion: mdz wanted all goals off WIP (after Feature Freeze) yours are conspicously still there - but I know you have mitigating circumstances ;)
[12:45] <JaneW> Kamion: as long as mdz accpets that, I won't bug you about them ;)
[12:46] <Kamion> I'll talk to mdz about what the status of BrandingForDerivatives should be
[12:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir was looking at MountingHDDFilesystems, but I don't know how far he got
[12:46] <Kamion> the PackageSelection ball isn't really in my court any more
[12:46] <Kamion> mvo: PackageSelection?
[12:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: AIUI, it got lost in feature freeze, so I stopped working on it.
[12:48] <Kamion> JaneW: the live CD part of MountingHDDFilesystems is already listed under deferred goals; do I need to do anything to the non-deferred line in the wiki page?
[12:48] <Kamion> ogra: the CDs won't work at all reliably until they're under the limit, one way or another
[12:49] <ogra> so we'll have to switch to dvd it seems
[12:50] <JaneW> Kamion: is the stuff in the non-deferred line done?
[12:50] <Kamion> JaneW: yes
[12:50] <JaneW> Kamion: if so it can go green (one of the 3 shades) :)
[12:50] <JaneW> Kamion: great, is it still being tested or fully complete?
[12:51] <JaneW> Kamion: I'll update it for you.
[12:51] <Kamion> JaneW: no need, doing it now
[12:52] <Kamion> I've just set it to implemented for the moment, will decide more fully later
[12:52] <JaneW> great thanks
[12:52] <JaneW> Kamion: perfect thanks
[12:52] <Kamion> ogra: 100MB or so doesn't seem like an insurmountable barrier; you have lots of language packs in ship still, for instance
[12:53] <ogra> in the end we will have *all* langpacks in :)
[12:53] <zyga> pitti: ping
[12:53] <Kamion> or you could lose thunderbird
[12:53] <ogra> so we'll end up with dvd anyway...
[12:53] <Keybuk> Kamion: what installs hfsplus, hfsutils, grub, initrd-tools, language-pack-gnome-en, linux-*, openoffice.org, openoffice.org-gtk-gnome ?
[12:53] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[12:53] <Keybuk> they're installed on this system, but aren't deps of any of the meta packages
[12:53] <ogra> hmm, dropping thunderbird is a good idea :)
[12:53] <zyga> pitti: just a thought: would hevily compressed .po files be smaller than .mo files?
[12:54] <pitti> zyga: I doubt it
[12:54] <zyga> pitti: I'm thinking about compiling .mo during install 
[12:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: debootstrap, debootstrap, grub-installer, base-installer, base-config, base-installer, used to be ubuntu-desktop, used to be ubuntu-desktop
[12:54] <pitti> zyga: no, that would be evil
[12:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: the first two are an anomaly because we don't have architecture-specific priorities (katie limitation)
[12:55] <ogra> Kamion, i'll look what i can drop for now, i'll poke you again for a rebuild later
[12:55] <Kamion> ok
[12:55] <michele> hello
[12:55] <Keybuk> and the last two could have been a mismatch between Task: and the meta-packages?
[12:56] <michele> pitti, I read in the AudioInfrastucture page "hack ALSA's OSS emulation to support opening /dev/dsp multiple times and route it through dmix"
[12:56] <michele> pitti, has that been implemented?
[12:56] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, I've just tested breezy... it seems that the problem, also present in Hoary is that when I choose Portuguese, and Portugal in the installation, by default it is installed Portuguese (Brazil), which imho is bad in the user perspective.
[12:56] <pitti> michele: no, it was determined to be impossible
[12:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes, possible, especially if you did a netboot install since amd64 still had openoffice.org (1) until recently
[12:56] <Keybuk> this was a netboot onto i386
[12:56] <Kamion> and architecture-specific Task fields don't work either
[12:56] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: right, but that's rather an installer bug
[12:56] <michele> pitti, oh sad. thanks
[12:56] <Kamion> pitti: ?
[12:57] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: the language package offers both countries, it's just a matter of what is installed in /etc/environment
[12:57] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, also... I was asked during installation that I should connect to the network as usual for full language support, although... in the end... it was present langpack and gnome pack.
[12:57] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, should I file a bug or contact someone?
[12:57] <Kamion> pitti: never heard of that bug
[12:57] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: that's fine
[12:57] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: language-support-pt isn't on the CD
[12:57] <Kamion> no room
[12:57] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: that does not refer to language-pack-*, but to language-support-*
[12:57] <Keybuk> ok, cool
[12:57] <Diziet> I wish I knew what `space alien' means in the partitioner :-).
[12:57] <Kamion> Diziet: there's a help button somewhere
[12:57] <Mithrandir> Diziet: uhm, context?
[12:57] <Mithrandir> ah, that one.
[12:57] <Keybuk> was just updating my keybuk-* packages and wondered whether I'd installed those over-enthusiastically
[12:58] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: so you really chose Portugal as country and have pt_BR.UTF-8 in /etc/environment?
[12:58] <Kamion> it's one of the Anton-Zinoviev-thought-it-was-pretty partman runes
[12:58] <Mithrandir> those icons are slightly hard to guess.
[12:58] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, let me check;)
[12:58] <WaterSevenUb> LANGUAGE="pt_PT:pt"
[12:58] <WaterSevenUb> LANG="pt_PT.UTF-8"
[12:59] <WaterSevenUb> but I am pretty sure the translations are not the ones for Portuguese (Portugal)!
[12:59] <WaterSevenUb> just looking to synaptic they are in Portuguese (Brazil).
[12:59] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: ok, so at least that part worked fine
[01:00] <sivang> whee I just saw the new screensaver login , kool :)
[01:00] <Kamion> there's mostly-solid-face (keep existing data on partition), skull-and-crossbones (format partition that already has data on it), mostly-hollow-face (format blank partition)
[01:00] <sivang> was it a SoC of someone?
[01:00] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:00] <jsgotangco> no that was during UDU
[01:00] <jsgotangco> the great smackdown
[01:00] <Kamion> I think sticking to the letters that it uses on serial console installs would've been better personally
[01:00] <sivang> jsgotangco: really? who worked on it?
[01:00] <Kamion> K, F, f respectively
[01:01] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, (language-selector was not working too ... maybe normal still)
[01:01] <jsgotangco> no idea but obviously you see jdub, bob2 and chmj
[01:01] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, so what can be wrong?
[01:01] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: what *is* wrong actually? the translations itself?
[01:01] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: it could be that there simply aren't any pt_PT translations
[01:01] <Kamion> so it's using pt_BR as a fallback?
[01:02] <pitti> yes, that's entirely possible
[01:02] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, no.... Synaptic and others are using pt_BR. In Hoary I am using the same applications in pt_PT, I guess the translations should be there.
[01:03] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: right, there is a pt_PT synaptic
[01:03] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: I /msg you
[01:03] <ajmitch> a user should not be allowed to lock the screen on the live cd... because it's not letting me back in :)
[01:05] <Diziet> Oh, what I'm calling space-alien might be skull-and-crossbones.
[01:07] <pitti> ogra: yay new screensaver
[01:07] <ogra> :)
[01:07] <pitti> Hi jdthood 
[01:07] <jdthood> hiya
[01:07] <tepsipakki> kamion: is there currently something wrong with parted.udeb?
[01:08] <Kamion> tepsipakki: not to my knowledge
[01:08] <tepsipakki> it fails on me, but I'll recheck its not the hd
[01:09] <seb128> doko: k
[01:09] <ajmitch> partman appeared to hang for me, but I haven't tested if it's due to a dodgy CD burn
[01:09] <seb128> Keybuk: oh, right
[01:10] <seb128> JaneW: I guess we can change it right, will do
[01:10] <zyga> ajmitch: switch to vt1, passwd ubuntu
[01:10] <zyga> pitti: could langpacks use bzip2 to compress .mo files?
[01:11] <ajmitch> zyga: it wasn't terribly urgent, I'm just waiting for dd to finish copying the whole drive contents :)
[01:11] <JaneW> seb128: great, thanks :)
[01:11] <Keybuk> seb128: I guess you've seen the patch on upstream gnome's bugzilla for metacity?
[01:13] <pitti> zyga: they already do
[01:18] <tepsipakki> kamion: for some reason the hd is not recognized. worked yesterday, and I can boot the previous installation
[01:20] <seb128> Keybuk: yep, I'm pondering patching or waiting for the new tarball
[01:22] <pitti> ogra, mvo, doko: http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~goehlert/misc/plaetzchen.gif
[01:23] <ogra> pitti, sweet :)
[01:23] <mvo> pitti: haha, great :)
[01:25] <sivang> pitti: what does it say?
[01:25] <pitti> sivang: it's a babelfish-ish translation of an english cookie error message; only for Germans, I'm afraid
[01:26] <tepsipakki> kamion: hoary install works, so it's the hardware detection bit that is broken
[01:30] <tepsipakki> kamion: by "yesterday" I mean the version that was mirrored here yesterday morning (~07:00 UTC)
[01:33] <pitti> doko: do you have some time to debug that locale.gen issue?
[01:35] <Kamion> tepsipakki: feel free to file a bug on the hw-detect component, attaching /var/log/syslog from the installer
[01:36] <Kamion> tepsipakki: it might well be a kernel bug though; hardware detection is mostly a hotplug job nowadays
[01:36] <tepsipakki> uhm, remembered that the netboot-image is a couple of days old..
[01:37] <ogra> Kamion, i took out all langs except en, de, fr and es for now and removed thunderbird, epiphany and the GL screensavers, do you think thats enough ?
[01:38] <ogra> ...having screensaers installed at all is silly btw... since they are disabled in ltsp anyway now
[01:40] <siretart> infinity: I see that you synced ghc6
[01:40] <Kamion> ogra: don't know, we'll find out on the next build
[01:40] <ogra> Kamion, after the updated metapackage is in the archive... i'll ping you...
[01:41] <infinity> siretart : Yes, I'm going to bootstrap with that version, PLEASE don't intruduce a new ghc upstream.
[01:41] <Kamion> oh damn, now I see why server wasn't getting added to the CDs
[01:41] <ogra> why ?
[01:41] <Kamion> fixing
[01:41] <ogra> ah, good :)
[01:41] <Kamion> I forgot a line in tasks/Edubuntu_breezy
[01:41] <infinity> siretart : This will be "Good Enough" for breezy, we can break the world with new upstream after breezy+1 opens.
[01:41] <siretart> infinity: sistpoty already prepared a solution for this
[01:42] <siretart> infinity: he basically packaged a snapshot of ghc6, which builds with gcc-4.0
[01:42] <infinity> siretart : Yes, and I'm asking, PLEASE don't do that.
[01:42] <infinity> siretart : Those snapshots have known problems.
[01:43] <infinity> siretart : 6.4, however, is known to be just fine, and won't introduce any new FTBFS bugs to deal with.
[01:43] <ivoks> ahm...
[01:43] <ivoks> in breezy is mozilla-firefox package that installs by default
[01:43] <ajmitch> ah, so we shoudl just get on with fixing the packages that build-dep on ghc6 then
[01:43] <Kamion> ogra: another build's in progress
[01:43] <siretart> infinity: ok, this means that we are better off with ghc 6.4 even if that means that we build them with gcc-3.3
[01:43] <ivoks> problem is... that firefox is useless on 30 computers i just installed (i can't see any text/menus)
[01:44] <infinity> siretart : In the end, it's all universe stuff, and you guys can do what you want, but I've been tracking ghc stuff for months, and I'm pretty confident that you'll be in a world of hurt if you upgrade to a snapshot.
[01:44] <ajmitch> infinity: it just would have been nice to hear that you were going to do this
[01:44] <infinity> siretart : If you're willing to defer to my judgement on this one, I'll bootstrap the version I just sycned, and you'll be on your way.
[01:44] <ajmitch> so we didn't have to spend the time looking into it
[01:44] <infinity> ajmitch : I hadn't planned on it until the change was made in Debian.
[01:44] <siretart> infinity: aah, ok. in this case, thanks for the information. all we wanted is a installable and working ghc6 in universe
[01:45] <infinity> ajmitch : Sorry. :/
[01:45] <ivoks> ok... bugzilla :)
[01:45] <ajmitch> infinity: it's ok
[01:45] <infinity> siretart : If you guys are sure you can restabilise the haskell world after introducing a new upstream, I can bootstrap that for you instead, but this route is much less hassle.
[01:45] <ajmitch> a working ghc6 is a definite plus
[01:45] <jbailey> pitti: ia32-libs will still be around for breezy.  amd64-libs is gone, though.
[01:46] <ajmitch> since we've got users who must have darcs yesterday
[01:46] <siretart> infinity: I thought that gcc-3.4 (or 4.0) was a requirement. therefore we concentrated on the new snapshot
[01:46] <infinity> Yeah, darcs is about the only reason I currently care about haskell as well (well, that and the fact that there's a LARGE tangle of stuff that's FTBFS waiting on ghc...)
[01:47] <siretart> jepp
[01:47] <Kamion> ogra: I've bumped you to 700MB CDs as well
[01:47] <infinity> siretart : There's no C++ code in ghc, so it's safe to use 3.3
[01:47] <ogra> Kamion, thanks :)
[01:47] <siretart> infinity: cool :)
[01:48] <ajmitch> great, hopefully a lot of the FTBFS stuff will just fall out with a rebuild
[01:48] <ogra> i wonder if you even still can buy 650 MB CD media... it seems ages ago that i had such a small one around here
[01:49] <infinity> ajmitch : Most of it will fall into line with zero effort, yes.
[01:49] <infinity> ajmitch : There's a few circular deps tangled up with ghc6 that need to be done at the same time, and I'll do those myself, the rest should just require rebuilds to get them in line.
[01:49] <ajmitch> infinity: thanks
[01:50] <ajmitch> I'm glad the mono bootstrapping is far less work now, compared to a mess like ghc6
[01:50] <infinity> ghc6 would be simple, if it wasn't for the gmp3 split.
[01:50] <doko> pitti: locale.gen: it's on my list, but I'm unsure how we should support "I only want to keep one of the de/fr locales"
[01:51] <infinity> But no big deal.
[01:51] <Kamion> ogra: yes, definitely. I think most of my plain CDs are
[01:51] <Kamion> some older drives, too ...
[01:51] <tepsipakki> kamion: yes, now it works with the latest netboot-image, d'uh
[01:52] <Kamion> tepsipakki: what were you using before?
[01:54] <tepsipakki> some image dated earlier this week, I think
[01:54] <tepsipakki> does netboot support usplash?-)
[02:02] <Kamion> it's in desktop the same way it is on CD install
[02:02] <Kamion> +s
[02:04] <tepsipakki> but is it in the netboot-initrd?-)
[02:05] <tepsipakki> so I can just see the nice logo while installing (preseeded)
[02:08] <Kamion> no, usplash is not in any installer initrd
[02:11] <pitti> doko: that's another issue, I'm mainly interested in the duplication bug now; I replied to the bug report
[02:25] <torkel> ogra: did you ever manage to convince elmo to do a sync of openafs from Debian unstable?
[02:25] <jordi> jdub: people keep asking me when we get a list. Do you have some estimation on how much longer it'll take to get resolved?
[02:26] <jordi> jdub: if we know that ubuntu-l10n-* is the way we want to do it, can we get mine created and get the others renamed another day?
[02:27] <ogra> torkel, 1.3.82-1 is in... 
[02:27] <jdub> jordi: yes, going to sort them tonight
[02:28] <Kamion> ogra: new Edubuntu CDs up
[02:28] <torkel> ogra: the kernel module will probably not build with 2.6.12, which makes the whole package more or less useless
[02:28] <jordi> jdub: hmm, tonight is probably pretty soon for ya, right?
[02:29] <jordi> jdub: thanks dude
[02:29] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[02:29] <sivang> jdub: my IBM contact re: box borrowing is out of the office, she's going to be back around 4th september, then I'll update again
[02:31] <pitti> carlos: here?
[02:31] <carlos> pitti, hi
[02:31] <carlos> pitti, yes
[02:31] <ogra> Kamion, is there any log wher i can find out more about the report ? i.e. whats holding back edubuntu-desktop on i386 suddenly ? 
[02:32] <jdub> Kamion: where is the baz repo for seeds?
[02:32] <ogra> Kamion, nm, found it
[02:34] <torkel> ogra: getting 1.4RC1 on breezy would be a really good thing as it works with 2.6.12
[02:35] <ogra> torkel, seems ok to me... 
[02:35] <ogra> elmo, can you sync openafs from debian unstable please ? 
[02:36] <torkel> ogra: thanks a lot
[02:37] <ogra> torkel, wait till its synced before cheering
[02:38] <torkel> ogra: I trust in you getting it synced :-)
[02:40] <pitti> lamont-away: ping
[02:41] <Kamion> ogra: not really unfortunately
[02:42] <Kamion> ogra: but I bet the CD overflowed; when that happens, the report is essentially garbage
[02:42] <ogra> Kamion, but it looks very good... 
[02:42] <ogra> oh
[02:42] <ogra> can you find that out anywhere ? 
[02:42] <ogra> i though i could just drop epydoc and am done... the report looks quite good for i386
[02:43] <zyga> pitti: how about creating region CDs?
[02:43] <Kamion> ogra: amd64 is about 6MB over; powerpc is about 50MB over; i386 fits
[02:43] <jdub> ok dudes
[02:43] <jdub> i need a little bit of help
[02:43] <ogra> Kamion, yay... thats what i wanted to hear :)
[02:43] <Kamion> zyga: we'd rather other people do that; our CD creation resources are getting strained as it is
[02:43] <zyga> pitti: like north america, south america, europe (could be split up) and so on
[02:43] <jdub> in october/november, i am going to be spreading the love
[02:43] <pitti> zyga: we discussed about it, but first it is against the one-cd philosophy, sencond, it would require us to test 200 images rather than 4
[02:43] <mjg59> jdub: All over our faces?
[02:43] <zyga> Kamion: resources == creating pressed cds or making iso images?
[02:44] <Kamion> zyga: both, plus testing as pitti mentions
[02:44] <zyga> Kamion: I see :/
[02:44] <pitti> jdub: shall we help you carrying 200 boxes of ubuntu cds?
[02:44] <ogra> Kamion, let me rip out epydoc and i'll ping you agian for a rebuild... i think then i'm done for today (if this thing installst then)
[02:44] <jdub> mjg59: possibly. london is on the itinerary.
[02:44] <jdub> i need a name for the tour
[02:44] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, looks like it
[02:44] <zyga> Kamion: what it the average number of CDs ordered daily?
[02:45] <jdub> last month, i was thinking of calling it the "northern tornado tour"
[02:45] <Kamion> zyga: lots. I don't have the figures.
[02:45] <jdub> but, ah, events have made that somewhat offensive
[02:45] <Kamion> zyga: it consumes quite a lot of money
[02:45] <zyga> Kamion: I wonder i sending free CDs is wise in the long term... 
[02:45] <jdub> (i was hoping to make a  refernece to breezy, but anyway)
[02:45] <jdub> so my fallback is the BadgersBadgersBadgersTour
[02:45] <zyga> Kamion: they should be like $1 so that people who don't need them won't bother
[02:46] <Kamion> zyga: consider it marketing
[02:46] <jdub> anyoen else have ideas?
[02:46] <Kamion> it's cheaper than many marketing campaigns, and astonishingly effective
[02:46] <zyga> Kamion: well so far you are doing quite okay :)
[02:46] <mjg59> jdub: Pants Off 2005?
[02:46] <jdub> zyga: we've shipped 3 million hoary CDs
[02:46] <jdub> zyga: half that of warty CDs
[02:46] <Kamion> jdub: Badgers->Badger would make that more pronounceable
[02:47] <tseng> BadgerBadgerMushroom
[02:47] <jdub> Kamion: but less people would go to badgersbadgersbadgers.com ;)
[02:47] <zyga> Kamion: in poland there are about 3 linux magazines - none of them ever shipped with ubuntu cd, lots of fedora core, makdrake, freebsd (I know it's not linux), slackware and aurox (polish redhat clone)
[02:47] <zyga> jdub: wow, that's *alot*
[02:47] <jdub> tseng: was thinking about something Schnakey
[02:48] <Treenaks> jdub: "Expedition: Northern Hemisphere"
[02:51] <zyga> jdub: did you try to contact any gov officials to get ubuntu into schools?
[02:51] <jdub> zul: nice seeing lots of you in the kernel changelogs :-)
[02:51] <jdub> zyga: there is a lot of ubuntu in schools, as it happens
[02:52] <jdub> in some cases, we are working with governments and businesses to make it happen
[02:52] <jdub> in others, we just get to hear the success stories :)
[02:52] <Treenaks> jdub: and the pictures that go with them :)
[02:52] <jdub> yes
[02:52] <jdub> lots of gdm glow pr0n :-)
[02:52] <zyga> jdub: is there any info about per-country progress? I'd like to know how my country is doing
[02:53] <jdub> zyga: not directly - are you on the ubuntu-pl loco team?
[02:54] <zyga> jdub: you mean in rosetta? yes - anything else - no
[02:54] <jdub> zyga: lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-pl
[02:55] <Kamion> ogra: we should fix python-epydoc, too ...
[02:55] <Kamion> causes problems for Ubuntu
[02:56] <ogra> oh, ok... but i focus to have a working CD for now, there are testers waiting... i'll look at epydoc directly afterwards :)
[02:56] <zyga> jdub: I know that's offtopic but the page defaults to iso-8859-1 instead of -2 even though meta key is okay :/
[02:57] <Kamion> oh, python2.4-epydoc just needs to be promoted to main
[02:59] <ogra> oh
[02:59] <ogra> it wasnt already ? wher does it cme from ? 
[02:59] <ogra> Kamion, can you do that ? then i'll change my seed back
[03:00] <ogra> hmm, anastacia is dead it seems
[03:01] <Kamion> ogra: (a) epydoc got uploaded recently, check breezy-changes, (b) yes, doing now, please revert the seed change, (c) I was just running cron.sync and may have intersected with mdz's cron job
[03:01] <ogra> ah, good
[03:02] <Kamion> Migrated python2.4-epydoc_2.1-9ubuntu1_all.deb from universe to main in breezy suite.
[03:04] <elmo> Riddell: ?
[03:05] <ogra> Kamion, as soon as it hits main, i'd be ready for another build
[03:06] <ogra> (seeds are ready)
[03:08] <Kamion> sure
[03:08] <ogra> thanks :)
[03:09] <ogra> hmm, i wonder if i really need emacs in edubuntu
[03:10] <Treenaks> ogra: only if you want to corrupt lots of poor unsuspecting souls ;)
[03:10] <ogra> Treenaks, in a classroom ? 
[03:10] <Treenaks> ogra: ... even more
[03:10] <Treenaks> then
[03:11] <ogra> Treenaks, i doubt it... and its about 20MB i could save
[03:20] <bddebian> Hello
[03:30] <WaterSevenUb> kamion,pitti, it looked like the problem was only affecting synaptic. I'm going to file a bug.
[03:31] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I've fixed the localechooser bug that made it happen, so the synaptic bug is not so urgent any more
[03:31] <Kamion> -Portuguese;1;pt;pt_PT.UTF-8;pt;PT;pt:pt_BR:en_GB:en;kbd=lat0-sun16(utf8)
[03:31] <Kamion> +Portuguese;1;pt;pt_PT.UTF-8;pt;PT;pt_PT:pt:pt_BR:en_GB:en;kbd=lat0-sun16(utf8)
[03:31] <Kamion> thanks for your patience
[03:32] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, you mean it's not urgent because it's going to use pt despite the fact that it has the translation named pt_PT?
[03:33] <Kamion> no, I mean it's not urgent because I fixed localechooser to list pt_PT ahead of pt in LANGUAGE
[03:33] <Kamion> (though that will only take effect on fresh installs, of course; for existing installs, edit /etc/environment and add pt_PT: in front of the first pt
[03:33] <Kamion> )
[03:34] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, ah, ok:) 
[03:34] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, thanks guys.
[03:34] <pitti> Kamion: that still confuses me, though; why do we need to prefer one over the other? wouldn't that just chnage the bug the other waay round?
[03:35] <Kamion> pitti: no, there's a separate Portuguese (Brazilian) option in the installer
[03:35] <pitti> Kamion: ah, ok. Makes sense then
[03:35] <pitti> thanks
[03:35] <Kamion> and that puts pt_BR:pt:pt_PT in LANGUAGE, so I just changed the Portugal one to match that
[03:35] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: thanks for your efforts to check that
[03:35] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, you are welcome.
[03:42] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu too ? 
[03:42] <lamont-away> pitti: ack
[03:45] <pitti> lamont-away: Hi, how are you? I sent you mail in the meantime
[03:45] <lamont-away> pitti: ok - I'll look at my email
[03:46] <Kamion> ogra: it's building; haven't decided what to do about it wrt C4 yet
[03:47] <ogra> Kamion, thats my job, if its good, i'll copy it to rookery, that one is linked from the edubuntu tzesting docs
[03:48] <ogra> but it looks very good (at least for i386) i hope epydoc wont overflow x86 now
[03:53] <fsmw> jdub, hi
[03:53] <fsmw> is here something from ubuntu installer team?
[03:54] <fsmw> somebody
[03:55] <Robinho_Peixoto> hi
[03:56] <jdub> fsmw: Kamion is the man to speak to :-)
[03:57] <fsmw> thanks jdub 
[03:57] <fsmw> Kamion, ping!
[03:57] <Robinho_Peixoto> i am create a patch for the Bug 14523 bug i don't know wath the file put on bugzilla. A new esound_0.2.36-1ubuntu5.diff.gz or the patch for esound_0.2.36-1ubuntu5.diff.gz. Sorry, i don't speak english.
[03:58] <seb128> Robinho_Peixoto: a patch with your changes is fine
[03:59] <Robinho_Peixoto> i will put a new esound_0.2.36-1ubuntu5.diff.gz
[04:00] <fsmw> where can i find the source code for ubuntu-installer?
[04:04] <fsmw> should i use debian-installer from its subversion copy?
[04:08] <jdub> fsmw: all of the source packages of all the components :)
[04:15] <fsmw> jdub, how can install that sources?
[04:15] <jdub> fsmw: apt-get source ...
[04:15] <jdub> fsmw: but tehre are a lot of packages :)
[04:15] <fsmw> humm, i want to fix some translations in d-i
[04:16] <fsmw> i'm seeing that typos from 4.10 and still are in breezy
[04:16] <fsmw> so i want to send a patch
[04:16] <mjg59> jbailey: Around?
[04:16] <fsmw> i guess that i need .po files from d-i
[04:18] <jbailey> mjg59: Yup, 'sup?
[04:19] <mvo> jdub: IIRC it is in rosetta
[04:21] <pitti> does anybody know how I can check the validity of a file descriptor without actually reading from it? something like peek()?
[04:22] <mjg59> jbailey: Bad things happen to USB if we resume from hibernation with USB modules loaded
[04:22] <pitti> oh, there is pread()
[04:22] <mjg59> jbailey: Would it be possible to hack the resume script to unload USB before attempting to resume?
[04:23] <jbailey> mjg59: What does that do if you're running off of usb harddrive?
[04:23] <mjg59> jbailey: We don't support suspending to USB devices anyway
[04:23] <jbailey> Or I guess it's screwed anyway at this point...
[04:23] <mjg59> Ideally we'd attempt to resume before loading the USB modules, but I don't know how practical that is
[04:23] <Kamion> fsmw: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/installer-po/, more or less
[04:24] <Kamion> fsmw: if they're translations that are also present in the Debian installer, it is MUCH easier for me if you can get them fixed upstream; I'm not good at acting as a go-between for translations into languages I don't speak
[04:24] <jbailey> mjg59: 'kay, so, hmmm..
[04:24] <mjg59> Otherwise they get loaded, unloaded and loaded on a normal boot
[04:24] <Kamion> ogra: if it's part of Colony 4, by definition it goes into the release directory on cdimage; if you want to make releases not part of the Colony series, you're welcome
[04:24] <jbailey> I guess the question there is to walk through all of the usb bus, and unload those drivers, and then try to guess what the usb controller modules might be?
[04:25] <jbailey> mjg59: I can hardcode a list for now, I guess.
[04:25] <mjg59> jbailey: It's only the hcd drivers that are the problem
[04:25] <fsmw> Kamion, i'm looking for some typos in spanish translation so i guess that i'll look in es.po
[04:25] <Kamion> fsmw: indeed
[04:25] <fsmw> let me check what happens there
[04:25] <mjg59> jbailey: As I said, ideally we'd be able to split the hardware detection into built-in disk and hotplug hardware sections, and resume from disk between the two of those
[04:25] <ogra> Kamion, my tests go a bit further then just installing a desktop, i dont want to slow down the colony releases...
[04:25] <fsmw> Kamion, is that the only one .po file in the instaler?
[04:26] <Kamion> ogra: ok, in that case perhaps it's better for you to do it independently
[04:26] <Kamion> fsmw: that's a collated .po file made up of all the others put together
[04:26] <fsmw> ok
[04:26] <jbailey> mjg59: Lemme think through this and catch up with you.  What do you mean by 'built-in disk', like modules compiled into the kernel?
[04:26] <mjg59> jbailey: Like a disk that's actually *in* the hardware
[04:26] <ogra> Kamion, thats what i thought... i think mdz isnt happy about it, but i'd rather not have impact on the normal release process
[04:26] <mjg59> So native IDE or SCSI controllers
[04:26] <mjg59> Not USB or Firewire
[04:27] <jbailey> mjg59: So before I walk the usb bus?  That's doable, I guess.  We'd still have to unload ?hci_hcd, though.
[04:28] <mjg59> jbailey: Hm. 
[04:28] <fsmw> Kamion, on the other hand i get some english dialog in breezy even if i choose spanish, i'm installing from CD-i386
[04:28] <Kamion> fsmw: that's not a surprise, our translations have never been complete because we changed strings from Debian
[04:28] <Kamion> we've been trying to reduce the size of the delta there
[04:28] <zyga> fsmw: what message is that?
[04:28] <Kamion> I'm happy to take translations for Ubuntu-local strings
[04:29] <fsmw> Kamion, is there a way to help with that?
[04:29] <jbailey> jbailey: Unless there's some sort of information in /sys that will tell me that it's a nic or a storage controller?
[04:29] <jbailey> mjg59: ^^
[04:29] <Kamion> fsmw: yes, send me translations :)
[04:29] <jbailey> I'm losing it.
[04:29] <fsmw> zyga, i found a typo that say "Comproando ..." should say "Comprobando", but i can't find that string in the .po file
[04:29] <Kamion> fsmw: I just fixed that earlier today; somebody else reported it
[04:29] <bddebian> jbailey: losing? ;-)
[04:29] <jbailey> bddebian: Shush, you.
[04:29] <jbailey> ;)
[04:29] <zyga> fsmw: grep the .mo files
[04:29] <mjg59> jbailey: /sys/bus/pci/*/class
[04:29] <mjg59> devices/*/class, rather
[04:30] <Kamion> fsmw: it's in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/base-config-po/
[04:30] <fsmw> Kamion, ok i see, that typo was in the last two ubuntu releases.
[04:30] <jbailey> mjg59: 'kay. Hmm
[04:30] <jbailey> That could actually be nice a few ways.
[04:30] <Kamion> fsmw: yes, it came from an Ubuntu-specific translation and nobody corrected it until the other day ...
[04:30] <jbailey> I could generate a queue of them, and defer some of the loading to the local and nfs scripts.
[04:30] <jbailey> That way the nfs mount doesn't bother loading local devices, and local doesn't bother with NICs.
[04:31] <fsmw> i see it, i was looking to patch it, is there some file not translated to spanish?
[04:31] <Kamion> I don't understand
[04:31] <jbailey> mjg59: A concern I have about delaying the loading of the usb controller is that I already have to have a sleep 2 in there to let the usb bus scan catch up in case there's a device on there.
[04:31] <mjg59> jbailey: Hmm.
[04:32] <mjg59> jbailey: The timing ought to work out the same overall, though - we're effectively just reordering stuff
[04:32] <jbailey> That would be resume faster, but possibly cause me to have to up the timeout since we'd be just waitingon the controller.
[04:32] <jbailey> Right 'cept that the bus scan happens while other thing happens right now.
[04:32] <mjg59> Ah
[04:32] <mjg59> Well, the unplug/replug dance would also be bad
[04:32] <mjg59> It gives a small race
[04:32] <jbailey> Yeah.
[04:33] <jbailey> Noone I've asked has been able to tell me how to tell if a bus scan is completed from userspace.
[04:33] <Kamion> fsmw: look for fuzzy or untranslated messages in the two URLs I gave above, as well as http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/shadow-po/
[04:33] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, anything with a class of 0x01.... is a storage controller
[04:33] <Kamion> fsmw: then send me the updated .po files and I'll merge them after the preview release
[04:33] <mjg59> 0x02.... is a network controller
[04:33] <Kamion> cjwatson@ubuntu.com
[04:33] <fsmw> ok Kamion
[04:33] <mjg59> See /usr/include/linux/pci_ids.h
[04:33] <jbailey> mjg59: 0x01 for all of SCSI, IDE and SATA?
[04:34] <mjg59> jbailey: Let me check for SATA, certainly SCSI and IDE
[04:34] <jbailey> If you don't have one handy, I can hop onto one.
[04:34] <Kamion> fsmw: as I said, it tends to make my life more difficult if you change already-translated messages that come from Debian; if you could send changes to that upstream, I'd greatly appreciate it
[04:35] <fsmw> i see you mean, send the translations to debian team?
[04:35] <jbailey> Looks like class 0x01018f
[04:36] <Kamion> fsmw: yeah, the Last-Translator: field and/or debian-i18n@lists.debian.org
[04:36] <fsmw> ok
[04:36] <fsmw> thanks!
[04:36] <mjg59> jbailey: SATA has the same class as IDE
[04:36] <Kamion> thanks to you
[04:36] <fsmw> btw thanks for your work at ubuntu, is really great
[04:36] <jbailey> Oh, I see. I didn't see the ... after your 0x01 =)
[04:39] <jdub> fsmw: how are we doing in chile? popular?
[04:39] <fsmw> jdub, we're giving ubuntu cd's in our GNOME meetings, we're doing one GNOME meeting by month
[04:39] <fsmw> next one will be september 10
[04:39] <jdub> awesome!
[04:40] <jdub> SOFTWARE FREEDOM DAY!
[04:40] <Robinho_Peixoto> what the command do you use for create a patch ?
[04:40] <fsmw> of course meetings are arround the country
[04:40] <jbailey> mjg59: I'll have to think about how to rearrange this then to split that up.  Right now the resume stuff happens in local-premount, by which time all the usb bits have to be loaded for booting.
[04:40] <Kamion> Robinho_Peixoto: diff -Nru or similar
[04:40] <fsmw> unfortunatly i miss the last one, and due to the death of my brother in law i don't know if i'll attend to the next one
[04:40] <Kamion> between old and new trees
[04:40] <mjg59> jbailey: Yeah
[04:41] <Robinho_Peixoto> Kamion: The result is very different
[04:41] <mjg59> jbailey: If we unload and reload there, then you have no idea how long the bus rescan is going to take, which is a pain if / is on USB
[04:41] <fsmw> on the other hand i use ubuntu at the university so my students use it too ;-)
[04:41] <Kamion> Robinho_Peixoto: different from what?
[04:41] <Kamion> and in what way?
[04:42] <lamont-away> daniels: ping
[04:42] <jbailey> mjg59: Right, lots of suckage.
[04:42] <jbailey> I'd have to do something clever like reload only if there was an image in the swapfile.
[04:43] <jbailey> Doable, but way too fUgly.
[04:43] <Kamion> Sigh. I should really learn to run CD builds under screen.
[04:43] <fsmw> Kamion, as i see you have some files not updated, there are some typos fixed in d-i svn
[04:44] <Kamion> fsmw: the last mass sync we did was in July
[04:44] <fsmw> i see
[04:44] <Kamion> since that was upstream version freeze, we haven't been routinely pulling in new translations since then
[04:44] <Kamion> and it gets quite difficult to do so as code and English strings diverge along with translated strings ...
[04:52] <hmrocha> hello
[04:53] <hmrocha> i updated my breezy packages yesterday and today i noticed that "lock screen" is different
[04:53] <hmrocha> it's great btw
[04:54] <hmrocha> but it would be much better if you could add the amount of time the computer has been locked
[04:56] <jdub> herzi: how up to date is your hula package in universe?
[04:59] <mvo> Kamion: amd64 install is coming along nicely here, all langpack dependencies work fine now! 
[04:59] <herzi> jdub: not really
[04:59] <Kamion> mvo: great, thanks
[04:59] <herzi> we should try to get alex' packages into universe
[05:01] <mvo> Kamion: I have prepared a new notification-daemon that fixes some arrow drawing problems. is this something for after preview or can I do a upload before?
[05:01] <mdz> morning
[05:02] <mvo> good morning mdz
[05:03] <herzi> jdub: i can work on that this weekend
[05:05] <bddebian> Morning mdz
[05:06] <Kamion> mvo: is that the thing where sometimes the notes end up in the top left-hand corner of the screen?
[05:07] <mvo> Kamion: that and when the notification applet is placed in the bottom
[05:07] <Kamion> mvo: I think that's OK, if that's the only change
[05:08] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[05:12] <jdub> herzi: no pressure, just interested ;)
[05:27] <Kamion> damnit, powerpc daily overflows by 4MB or so
[05:27] <Kamion> mdz: it's really getting tempting to kill thunderbird from the powerpc CD
[05:31] <Kamion> mdz: (it's either that, or language packs like Japanese, German, and French ...)
[05:31] <tortoise_> can someone confirm this bug for me, searching using the gnome search tool always searches your home directory what ever directory one selects for searching.
[05:31] <mdz> Kamion: fine with me
[05:31] <mdz> Kamion: likewise for emacs
[05:32] <jdub> Kamion: removing gimp would give you a nice boost
[05:32] <jdub> Kamion: i'd prefer to see it out of the desktop seed than not shipping thunderbird on the cd
[05:32] <herzi> svenl: ping
[05:32] <Kamion> jdub: removing stuff from desktop on one architecture is harder
[05:32] <jdub> Kamion: happy for it to be done for all
[05:32] <Kamion> you serious?
[05:32] <jdub> yes
[05:32] <Kamion> gimp seems fairly headline
[05:32] <jdub> it's also not fairly GCF :)
[05:33] <jdub> (greatest common factor)
[05:33] <Kamion> two mail clients is not GCF
[05:33] <Kamion> one mail client is GCF
[05:33] <jdub> Kamion: though, and it pains me to say it, i understand people choosing thunderbird over evo :)
[05:34] <Kamion> what should people use to crop photos?
[05:34] <jdub> gthumb
[05:34] <Kamion> hmm
[05:34] <jdub> f-spot
[05:34] <Kamion> f-spot isn't on the CD
[05:34] <jdub> details
[05:34] <Kamion> important ones :)
[05:34] <jbailey> jdub: I have to admit last I used the moz email client was pre mozilla-1.0
[05:34] <jdub> ;-)
[05:34] <jbailey> jdub: And *boy* was it bad. =)
[05:35] <Kamion> GCF-wise, I feel happier about removing emacs than either gimp or thunderbird
[05:35] <jdub> jbailey: thunderbird is OE to evolution's O (ie. far more attractive to most people)
[05:35] <Kamion> although I admit to being a vi bigot
[05:35] <elmo> I'm an emacs bigot
[05:35] <elmo> and I'd be much happier to see emacs go than gimp or thunderbird
[05:35] <jdub> Kamion: yeah, seems sensible (much bigger too)
[05:35] <wasab1> Apple figured it out.
[05:36] <jbailey> jdub: Ah interesting.  I wonder if I would find that, given that I dislike FireFox's UI and prefer ephy.
[05:36] <elmo> I think jdub's entirely wrong about gimp too; it may not be "GCF", but it's a real win having it on the CD
[05:36] <wasab1> Mail.app is a simple client, but also a kick ass corporate client.
[05:36] <jdub> elmo: it's one of the first i'd remove when we have real pressure
[05:36] <jdub> definitely emacs is more appropriate to remove first
[05:36] <svenl> herzi: pong ...
[05:36] <bddebian> emacs should be stricken from the planet
[05:36] <mvo> daniels: around?
[05:36] <jdub> jbailey: do you like IMAP that doesn't work like sucking uluru through a straw?
[05:37] <Kamion> emacs21 it is, powerpc CD only
[05:39] <Kamion> FirstAgainstTheWall++, by the way - I have to make this kind of decision at short notice moderately often when trying to get CDs out, and it'd be nice if the priority order for removal got some consideration rather than just whatever people around on IRC at the time happen to think :)
[05:39] <jdub> ok, will do it some time :)
[05:39] <jdub> maybe make it a small UBZ BOF
[05:40] <Kamion> also, make smaller packages kthxbye
[05:40] <jdub> s/BOF/session/
[05:40] <jdub> j00 must add 7zip support to dpkg!!!111
[05:40] <jbailey> jdub: Sure. =)  I've worked with the evo folks a few times to help with bugs.
[05:40] <Kamion> naw, man, zoo is the way forward
[05:41] <elmo> FirstAgainstTheWall needs some better rationalization than "I don't think many people use it"
[05:41] <jdub> if the rationalisation were as such, we should remove from the CD straight away, rather than putting it on a priority list :)
[05:43] <herzi> svenl: you told me about an image to set up the pegasos the way it was delivered, can you give me access to that image?
[05:43] <Kamion> well, no, it does make sense to fill the CDs
[05:43] <Kamion> but we need to know what falls off first
[05:43] <elmo> jdub: that's a nice attitude and all but it's entirely disconnected from the reality of what's on our CD
[05:43] <jdub> we have > 650MB of GCF worthy packages :)
[05:44] <jdub> elmo: wow, i don't think so - and i don't think organic growth since warty has had a negative impact on it either
[05:45] <jdub> our desktop seed is remarkably focused
[05:45] <svenl> herzi: no chance. i can make you available the newer version though.
[05:45] <elmo> haha
[05:45] <svenl> herzi: what do you want exactly though ? It is something like 3GB of data in total.
[05:46] <herzi> well, i'd like to be able to re-stage it before i start to start modifying the stuff (re-partitioning, etc)
[05:46] <herzi> svenl: it would be okay if you can burn it on a dvd and give it to me once we meet again
[05:47] <svenl> herzi: ah, ok.
[05:47] <svenl> herzi: well, my problem is with my upload, but i have the (newer) images at ppczone, in separate pieces though.
[05:48] <ogra> Kamion, :(
[05:48] <ogra> Kamion, still no edubuntu-server installed...
[05:48] <Kamion> ogra: which version?
[05:49] <ogra> Kamion, and the late command to build the ltsp client wasnt called
[05:49] <ogra> Kamion, .3
[05:50] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu-server is on the CD, but doesnt get copied to disk... the ltsp stuff gets copied but not configured by base-config
[05:50] <svenl> herzi: you do know how to build ubuntu-installer ? 
[05:51] <Kamion> ogra: check /preseed/edubuntu.seed on the CD, make sure it looks right
[05:52] <ogra> yup, a second...
[05:52] <Kamion> ogra: then e.g. 'echo GET base-config/late_command | debconf-communicate' please
[05:52] <Lathiat> mjg59: so, i definately get a lid up event but it doesnt wake my screen up, i can tell cus if i put my switch down, then hit the keyboard to unactivate it then watching the log i lift the switch back up and an event fires
[05:53] <ogra> Kamion, the edubuntu.seed looks ok
[05:53] <ogra> Kamion, but it doesnt seem to get run by default....
[05:53] <Kamion> oh, meh, I'm a moron
[05:54] <Kamion> that has never worked for edubuntu
[05:54] <Kamion> fixing
[05:54] <Kamion> look for DEFAULT_PRESEED in debian-cd/tools/boot/breezy/* and you should see the problem fairly quickly
[05:55] <ogra> Kamion, where would i find that dir ? 
[05:55] <Kamion> ogra: never mind
[05:55] <Kamion> (but colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/debian-cd--ubuntu--0)
[05:55] <ogra> :)
[05:55] <ogra> ah
[05:55] <mjg59> Lathiat: Ok. Can you stick a set -x in /etc/acpi/lid.sh and see what code it executes when you open the lid?
[05:56] <Kamion> ogra: fixed, will do you another rebuild once cdimage isn't maxed out doing other things
[05:56] <ogra> oki
[05:56] <Lathiat> [Fri Sep  2 23:56:33 2005]  received event "button/lid LID 00000080 0000000b"
[05:56] <Diziet> My debconf database has an entry in it owned by `unknwon'.
[05:56] <ogra> ping meif its there :)
[05:56] <Lathiat> [Fri Sep  2 23:56:53 2005]  received event "button/lid LID 00000080 0000000c"
[05:56] <Lathiat> (down, up)
[05:57] <Kamion> debconf (1.4.51) unstable; urgency=low
[05:57] <Kamion>   * Colin Watson
[05:57] <Kamion>     - Fix spelling of "unknown" in copied database items with no owners.
[05:57] <Kamion>  -- Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>  Wed,  8 Jun 2005 23:03:01 -0400
[05:57] <Kamion> Diziet: ^--
[05:58] <Kamion> ogra: I'll be gone by then, as I'm going to watch a play this evening; I'll kick it off before I leave but you'll have to watch for it yourself
[05:58] <Diziet> k: Aha.  Should we have that in breezy ?
[05:58] <pef> someone can help me about the GLUTransition ?
[05:58] <Lathiat> pef: whats up'
[05:58] <Kamion> Diziet: yes; stuff copied as part of the hoary install will still have it though. It's not really worth the trouble of a migration script as far as I know.
[05:59] <Diziet> Right.
[05:59] <Diziet> Oh, yes, there it is.
[05:59] <Kamion> (did you just find it while browsing?)
[06:01] <pef> Lathiat: I have xlibmesa-gl | libgl1, xlibmesa-glu | libglu1 as recommends in a debian/control file, shoud I replace them with libgl1-mesa | libgl, libglu1-mesa | libglu ?
[06:02] <pef> Lathiat: the problem is with libgl1 and libglu1
[06:02] <Lathiat> pef: oh you have something with dependencies not just build-deps?
[06:02] <Lathiat> pef: what package?
[06:03] <pef> Lathiat: galan (and I find this strange in Recommends field, no ?)
[06:03] <Lathiat> interesting
[06:03] <Diziet> Ahhh, I seee.  It's asking me once about the ispell dictionary and once about the wordlist.  I think that's silly.
[06:04] <Lathiat> pef: thats... most interesting
[06:05] <Lathiat> pef: ask infinity or daniels im not totally sure 
[06:05] <Lathiat> pef: but sounds possibly ok
[06:05] <Kamion> Diziet: there's something generally wrong with the dictionaries-common infrastructure - it should apparently be inheriting default answers from the installer (e.g. en_GB => wbritish, that sort of thing), but isn't
[06:06] <pef> Lathiat: so libgl and libglu will be another non currently existent packages
[06:06] <Diziet> k: That would be sensible.
[06:06] <Diziet> Do you know who's looking into this, if anyone ?
[06:06] <Lathiat> pef: so, libglu1-mesa | libglu1, libgl1-mesa | libgl1
[06:06] <Lathiat> pef: i think
[06:06] <ogra> Kamion, ok, thanks for all
[06:06] <Kamion> Diziet: I sent a mail to ubuntu-devel and dict-common-dev earlier today about it, and got a reply from one of the dict-common-dev maintainers
[06:07] <mjg59> Lathiat: Did you put the set -x in the script file? You should get more output than that
[06:07] <Kamion> Diziet: I won't have time to look at it more until Monday, though; I've just applied a band-aid to get us past the next CD release. As far as I know nobody else is looking at it.
[06:07] <pef> Lathiat: ok, thanks, will ask to Daniel for confirmation
[06:07] <Lathiat> mjg59: yeh there is i can msg it to you
[06:07] <Lathiat> mjg59: doesnt seem to give any more output than with +x tho
[06:08] <mjg59> Lathiat: Hm.
[06:08] <Kamion> Diziet: if you're talking about a first-time install, I suspect the problem is that dictionaries-common's guessing doesn't work if dictionaries-common is installed in one apt run and then the wordlists themselves are installed in a second apt run.
[06:08] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/lid.txt
[06:08] <daniels> mvo: hm?
[06:08] <Kamion> This happens in our scenario, because we install the desktop first and then language-support-* after that
[06:08] <mjg59> Lathiat: Uh. Put set -x in the file, don't chmod -x it :)
[06:09] <Lathiat> oh
[06:09] <Kamion> (they're in separate runs so that the desktop still gets installed even if language-support-* is uninstallable)
[06:09] <pef> daniels: I have a problem with GLUTransition
[06:09] <Lathiat> like, put "set -x" on a line at the top?
[06:09] <mvo> daniels: I send you a mail about a dri problem on the r200 because I thought you might be sleeping or something 
[06:09] <mjg59> Lathiat: Yeah
[06:09] <mjg59> Lathiat: Just after the /bin/bash bit
[06:10] <rubenv> Lathiat: I tested your i8k suspend config again
[06:10] <Lathiat> updated
[06:10] <lamont-away> Kamion: mdz: if a package is FTBFS in the archive (but binaries are present), can I still upload fixes for the FTBFS?
[06:10] <Lathiat> rubenv: no luck?
[06:10] <daniels> mvo: ah, okay
[06:10] <Lathiat> rubenv: works for me ;p
[06:10] <daniels> pef: do tell
[06:10] <lamont-away> given the freeze and all that
[06:10] <rubenv> Lathiat: doesn't work here, but the opposite config does work
[06:10] <rubenv> Lathiat: what bios have you got?
[06:10] <Lathiat> rubenv: A14
[06:10] <Lathiat> rubenv: A13 also works
[06:10] <rubenv> hmmm, mine has an A12
[06:11] <mjg59> Lathiat: The xscreensaver-command -deactivate bit really should be turning your screen back on
[06:11] <pef> daniels: oups, misunterstood, think you are dholbach, sorry ;)
[06:11] <Kamion> mjg59: from that log it looks like 'su - $USER' should be 'su $USER'
[06:11] <rubenv> I never update my bios (no win), but my replaced bios came with A12
[06:11] <Lathiat> mjg59: well uh, it doesnt? ;p
[06:11] <Diziet> k: No, I'm talking about an upgrade from hoary.
[06:12] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah, true
[06:12] <Kamion> Diziet: oh, um, ok; that could be related but I don't know anything about that scenario
[06:12] <rubenv> Lathiat: we need a third opinion ;-)
[06:12] <mjg59> Lathiat: Well, it's documented as ding so and works here...
[06:12] <daniels> pef: no worries!
[06:12] <Kamion> mjg59: could make a difference if :0.0 is owned by a different user?
[06:12] <Diziet> k: OK, well, I'll put it on my list of things to investigate.
[06:12] <Kamion> Diziet: congratulations, you're looking into it ;-)
[06:12] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah, but I can't see any way that that could be happening
[06:12] <mjg59> Kamion: In that case there'd have been an error from xscreensaver-command
[06:13] <Kamion> ah, yes
[06:13] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm
[06:13] <hmrocha> do you think you could show the amount of time the computer has been lock in the new "lock screen" image?
[06:14] <hmrocha> it would be a great feature for my faculty
[06:14] <Lathiat> mjg59: so what does hitting the keyboard do
[06:14] <Kamion> lamont-away: if they're fixing only the FTBFS, and fixing that doesn't involve major changes (like binaries jumping from a much older version because no version since then managed to build), I'd say that's fine
[06:15] <ogra> hmrocha, its a very intrusive change to do that, we are near preview release...
[06:16] <Lathiat> mjg59: well, xset dpms force on works
[06:16] <Lathiat> (xscreensaver-command --activate; sleep 2; xset dpms force off; sleep 5; xscreensaver-command --deactivate; xset dpms force on)
[06:16] <lamont-away> Kamion: I'm thinking trivial stuff like missing build-deps/missing includes
[06:17] <lamont-away> Kamion: these are the breezy-autotest failures: we have a binary with that version in the archive, but it is now FTBFS if you try to rebuild
[06:17] <lamont-away> (and it's also probably just plain FTBFS for poor little hppa/sparc)
[06:18] <mjg59> Lathiat: Hmm. If you edit lid.sh and put an xset dpms force on just above the xscreensaver bit, does it work?
[06:18] <Diziet> The xserver-xorg config script tries to build a list of available drivers by looking in /usr/lib/xorg etc. in its config script.
[06:19] <Lathiat> mjg59: yep
[06:19] <Kamion> Diziet: whoa, no wonder it doesn't work
[06:19] <mjg59> Lathiat: Ok
[06:19] <mjg59> Lathiat: It seems that xscreensaver doesn't always succeed in doing the dpms transition itself
[06:20] <Kamion> lamont-away: fine for the next couple of days anyway; after that we do have to lock down more so that we have consistent CD images everywhere
[06:20] <lamont-away> Kamion: OK.
[06:20] <lamont-away> Kamion: scream when we lockdown, OK?
[06:20] <Lathiat> mjg59: any chance of making that    
[06:21] <mjg59> Lathiat: Yeah, just including it now
[06:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: .. the default ;p
[06:21] <Kamion> lamont-away: yeah; I should imagine on Monday/Tuesday we'll want to just stop making changes so we can sit and test
[06:21] <Lathiat> sorry my ssh got cut off
[06:21] <lamont-away> Kamion: ok
[06:21] <jdub> it'll grow back
[06:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: thanks
[06:21] <Diziet> daniels: ping
[06:23] <daniels> Diziet: be quick
[06:25] <daniels> Diziet: i'm just on my way out to bed
[06:25] <Diziet> Ah, hello :-).
[06:26] <Diziet> You made a change to xorg:
[06:26] <Diziet>   * Fix module searching in xserver-xorg.config.in (closes: Ubuntu#14430).
[06:26] <Diziet> But 14430 is something about gksudo.
[06:26] <Riddell> elmo: pong
[06:26] <daniels> Diziet: maybe 24340?
[06:26] <daniels> er, 14340
[06:27] <Diziet> That looks more like it.
[06:27] <Kamion> #14340 was the xorg-commin typo
[06:27] <Diziet> Oh, so it is.
[06:27] <Diziet> Did you change it to make it run find in /usr/lib/xorg/modules in the config script, or did it do that already ?
[06:27] <elmo> Riddell: could you take a look at the noatun-plugins bug pls?
[06:27] <elmo> Riddell: should be easy transition thing
[06:27] <daniels> Diziet: i changed it to deal with /usr/lib/xorg/modules earlier
[06:27] <elmo> I'd assign it to you, but someone fascisifed our bugzilla
[06:27] <daniels> Diziet: i fixed it to ... well, to work ... in -55
[06:27] <daniels> or -56 or whatever
[06:28] <daniels> it's definitely bedtime
[06:28] <Riddell> elmo: what's the bug number?
[06:28] <daniels> seb128: btw, you're right about that gnome-applets/xkb bug, could you please close it as it's fixed by now
[06:28] <Diziet> OK.  I'll try to catch you about this on Monday.  I don't want to just start messing with things until I understand why they're the way they are.
[06:28] <Kamion> daniels: that seems optimistic in a .config script
[06:28] <Kamion> which runs before unpack ...
[06:28] <elmo> Riddell: 14552
[06:29] <Diziet> Let the poor guy go to bed :-).  I've got plenty else I can be faffing with.
[06:29] <daniels> Kamion: i guess that would explain why we always fall back to the architecture default list.
[06:29] <daniels> Kamion: it's a brandenism
[06:29] <Diziet> I noticed it because it prints an error message.
[06:29] <Kamion> well, "runs before unpack" -> "sometimes runs before unpack", anyway
[06:29] <daniels> Diziet: oh, sweet.  what's the error message?
[06:29] <Kamion> yeah, what the man said, get some sleep
[06:29] <Diziet> During hoary -> breezy.
[06:30] <daniels> Kamion: obviously we need to have xserver-xorg p-d on all the drivers then.
[06:30] <Diziet> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/somthing: ENOENT
[06:30] <Diziet> and then it carries on anyway.
[06:30] <Kamion> daniels: that doesn't help for .config
[06:30] <daniels> Diziet: okay, I'll probably just 2>/dev/null that one
[06:30] <Diziet> No no no.
[06:30] <Kamion> it's run before *anything's* unpacked
[06:30] <daniels> Kamion: oh right, some times it gets run bef ... yeah, that
[06:30] <mvo> mdz: can you please change the default gnome-app-install bugzilla qa-contact to "niran@niran.org"?
[06:30] <daniels> Diziet: (we do find /usr/X11R6/modules/ /usr/lib/xorg/modules/ -name '*_drv.*'
[06:31] <Diziet> Indeed.  But in this case, /usr/lib/xorg/modules doesn't exist.
[06:31] <daniels> right
[06:31] <Diziet> Yet.
[06:31] <Diziet> This is just fundamentally incorrect.
[06:31] <Diziet> If you need information about what's installed, you have to do it in postinst.
[06:31] <daniels> Diziet: /usr/lib/xorg/modules only exists in our brave new modular server world
[06:31] <daniels> Diziet: we don't *need* it as such, but it is nice
[06:31] <Kamion> ([ -d /usr/X11R6/modules ]  && find /usr/X11R6/modules/ ...; [ -d /usr/lib/xorg/modules/ ]  && find /usr/lib/xorg/modules/ ...), anyway
[06:31] <elmo> Kamion: any objection to me removing anything but the current installer image from hoary + warty?
[06:31] <daniels> Diziet: it's not mine, I inherited it and tweaked it
[06:32] <elmo> kamion: i.e. trash daily-installer-* and the T-1 and T-2 in installer-*
[06:32] <daniels> but I think I'll probably end up moving all of .config to .postinst
[06:32] <Diziet> Definitely don't just 2>/dev/null the messages.  That's just a recipe for deeper mysteries.
[06:32] <Kamion> elmo: let me just check the .jigdo files
[06:32] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, but getting the output right (it's multiply sedded and grep -v'ed) was enough of a pain in the arse that this was easier
[06:32] <daniels> anyway, 0234
[06:32] <Diziet> Anyway, do you want me to pass the buck to you or do you want me to put it on my todo list ?
[06:32] <daniels> this seems to be my bedtime of choice
[06:32] <daniels> Diziet: pass the buck, it's a quick fix
[06:33] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm, open screen -> screensaver comes on, dont unlock -> close screen -> screen doesnt go off -> open again, unlock... after a few seconds the screen blacks
[06:33] <Diziet> I'm not sure I approve of your quick fix, but fair enough.  It'll avoid me building X here :-).
[06:33] <daniels> Diziet: i have a different quick fix in mind
[06:33] <daniels> -d /foo && PATHS="/foo"; -d /bar && PATHS="$PATHS bar"; find $PATHS -name ...
[06:34] <daniels> foop
[06:34] <Kamion> elmo: warty jigdos say installer-*/20040801ubuntu20; hoary jigdos say installer-*/20041227ubuntu24
[06:34] <Diziet> danies: Sounds more sensible, yes.
[06:34] <Kamion> elmo: anything else for warty/hoary is fine to trash
[06:34] <Kamion> well, morgue, anyway :)
[06:34] <Diziet> I'll file a Debian bug about the fundamentally wrong thing.
[06:34] <mjg59> Lathiat: Ah. Interesting.
[06:35] <mjg59> Lathiat: Sounds like an xscreensaver bug
[06:35] <ogra> mjg59, ?
[06:35] <elmo> Kamion: excellent, thanks
[06:35] <mjg59> ogra: Hi
[06:35] <ogra> hey mjg59 
[06:36] <ogra> Lathiat, open screen == open lid ?
[06:37] <silbs> how many languages are on the CDs we ship? And is that number the same for live and install?
[06:37] <silbs> (I'm updating the copy on the physical CD sleeves and would like to mention languages)
[06:38] <Kamion> silbs: no, quite different, and it varies by architecture too, and I don't think we can give a concrete answer for the breezy release yet
[06:38] <mjg59> ogra: It sounds like xscreensaver queues lock requests, rather than ignore them if it's already locked
[06:38] <silbs> Kamion: how about a vague number, e.g., "more than X"?
[06:38] <ogra> mjg59, *sigh*
[06:38] <Riddell> elmo: that's part of kdeaddons which is the last part of the kde 3.4.2 upload that I'm about to get to nowish
[06:39] <silbs> (where hopefully X can be something like 10, not 1 or 2)
[06:39] <ogra> mjg59, this code is so odd...
[06:39] <Riddell> mdz: the kdebase upload was part of kde 3.4.2 which was started ages ago but was waiting on xmkmf.  am I ok to finish it with kdeaddons and kdeartwork?
[06:39] <Kamion> silbs: 12 for install/i386, 1 for live/i386
[06:39] <ogra> powerpc has 2 less
[06:40] <ogra> and amd64 has 12 too on install if i can count
[06:40] <Kamion> amd64's the same for install and live; bizarrely live/powerpc has 12
[06:40] <ogra> heh
[06:41] <Lathiat> ogra: yeh
[06:41] <Kamion> live/amd64 and live/i386 are both slightly larger than live/powerpc at the moment; I'm not sure where the difference lies
[06:41] <Lathiat> mjg59: is it? is xscreensaver what initially blanks the screen?
[06:41] <Kamion> oh, many fewer X drivers
[06:41] <silbs> Kamion: thanks
[06:42] <mdz> Riddell: we are in preview freeze now; are they critical for preview?
[06:42] <Lathiat> mjg59: ok so 
[06:42] <Kamion> silbs: I do think we need to get that number up, but I don't know where to get the space from at the moment
[06:42] <Lathiat> mjg59: the xset dpsm force off should still work
[06:42] <Lathiat> mjg59: which, it doesnt
[06:42] <Kamion> going back to the FirstAgainstTheWall thing from earlier
[06:42] <Kamion> python-* would be an obvious place to start, but I like having my job ;)
[06:42] <ogra> Lathiat, xscreensaver handles dpms itself additionally... probaly they clash
[06:43] <Lathiat> ogra: ah ok
[06:43] <Lathiat> ogra: be nice if that worked
[06:43] <mjg59> Lathiat: Mm?
[06:43] <jdub> Kamion: there are some python things that could be stripped tho
[06:43] <mjg59> Lathiat: I'm afraid I don't understand the current situation
[06:43] <Kamion> jdub: well, I agree, but I always thought that
[06:43] <ogra> Lathiat, i'll look at it, but i cant promise anything...
[06:43] <mjg59> Lathiat: You close, open, close, open, unlock and then it relocks?
[06:43] <Lathiat> ogra: ok
[06:44] <ogra> mjg59, its a dpms problem...
[06:44] <Lathiat> mjg59: no
[06:44] <mjg59> Lathiat: Ah
[06:44] <ogra> it doesnt lock again, but blanks
[06:44] <Lathiat> mjg59: i close, open, the unlock dialog comes up, i then close it again, the dpms doesnt turn it off
[06:44] <mjg59> I've misunderstood
[06:44] <Lathiat> however when i do finally disactivate the screensaver
[06:44] <Lathiat> some kind of queued dpms off happens
[06:44] <Lathiat> so im gussing that screenblank doesnt return
[06:44] <mjg59> Lathiat: Oh. Christ.
[06:44] <Riddell> mdz: depends if slang transition is critical
[06:44] <Lathiat> until it unlocks
[06:45] <Lathiat> err, the xscrenesaver part of screenblank
[06:45] <mjg59> Lathiat: Uhm. Yeah, which still sounds like an xscreensaver problem. Hrmph.
[06:45] <mjg59> Possibly that should just be backgrounded
[06:46] <Lathiat> i'll test that
[06:46] <mjg59> Which would then unambiguously make it an screensaver problem, and so not my problem :)
[06:46] <mjg59> Lathiat: Just background the xscreensaver bit of it
[06:47] <Lathiat> yep
[06:47] <Lathiat> that works
[06:47] <mjg59> Lathiat: Ok, cool
[06:47] <mdz> Riddell: I wouldn't say so
[06:47] <mdz> Riddell: how are the kubuntu CDs looking?
[06:48] <Riddell> mdz: ok, so post preview then?
[06:48] <Riddell> mdz: I havn't been able to test them, no cd burner here (kde conference)
[06:48] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think about increasing the size limit in debian-cd?   both for purposes of error checking and having working images, it is better to have an oversized iso than an incomplete one
[06:49] <mdz> Riddell: oh, I thought you were back.  when do you return?
[06:49] <mdz> Riddell: the kubuntu CDs haven't seen much love, and time is short for preview
[06:49] <Riddell> mdz: sunday, this week is hacking week
[06:49] <Kamion> mdz: can I think about that later? I have to be five minutes' drive away in ten minutes' time
[06:50] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[06:50] <mdz> Kamion: will mail a reminder
[06:50] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu builds ? 
[06:50] <Kamion> ogra: give me a second already
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: I have Edubuntu and Ubuntu CD builds running at the moment
[06:50] <ogra> Kamion, err, mdz can do that too, right ? 
[06:50] <ogra> ah, ok
[06:51] <mdz> yes
[06:51] <ogra> mdz, but they are already running apparently :)
[06:51] <Kamion> mdz: the Ubuntu build I did just now was bad for a couple of reasons, but the next one should be OK; if people could test that this evening, I'd appreciate it
[06:51] <pef> why some packages haven't the same name when I try to fetch them using aptitude ? (apt-get source iris works, but aptitude download iris not, aptitude download xmms-iris works)
[06:51] <Kamion> I'll test it myself when I get back later
[06:51] <Kamion> pef: source packages and binary packages often have different names.
[06:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we should make d-i support multiple heads. :-P
[06:52] <pef> Kamion: ok, thanks !
[06:52] <ogra> mdz, if Kamion's change works the edubuntu CD is in preview state for amd64 and i386 ... ppc has a size problem i'll have to solve
[06:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: haha
[06:53] <Kamion> pef: (it's not about apt-get vs. aptitude - aptitude's download command fetches binary packages rather than source packages)
[06:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I think we might need to teach the linux console about multiple heads first, though. :-)
[06:53] <pef> Kamion: is there a particular reason fo this difference of name ?
[06:54] <jdub> Mithrandir: but i've heard kernel hackers referring to the linux console as a multiheaded beast!
[06:54] <Kamion> pef: source packages often generate multiple binary packages
[06:54] <pef> Kamion: oh right, I now understand, thank you !
[06:54] <Mithrandir> jdub: my new setup here is _really_ sweet.  2 nice 17" LCDs and a dualcore athlon64.
[06:54] <jdub> oof. yum.
[06:55] <Kamion> pef: also, the source package is often just called whatever upstream call it, while the binary package may conform to some particular naming scheme (like libfoo-bar-perl for Perl modules)
[06:55] <Mithrandir> I've just borrowed a 3800+ for a week until my CPU arrives, then I'll have a 4400+
[06:55] <Kamion> although practice there varis
[06:55] <Kamion> varies
[06:56] <jdub> my eyes will be bursting with delight
[06:56] <jdub> instead of pain
[06:56] <jdub> ;-)
[06:57] <Mithrandir> jdub: passive CPU cooler, passive cooling on graphics card, just two 12cm case fans and the really, really silent PSU fan.
[06:57] <Mithrandir> :-)
[06:59] <jdub> passive cooling == RAWK
[07:02] <elmo> err
[07:02] <elmo> this new xscreensaver lock thing is temporary right?
[07:02] <Diziet> mdz: Did Keybuk talk to you about my dpkg conffiles fix ?
[07:03] <mjg59> elmo: ?
[07:04] <ogra> elmo, feel free to submit new artwork, i ave no objection to change the pic
[07:04] <pef> bye !
[07:05] <elmo> ogra: dude, I don't want to submit new artwork - I want us to use something !April-1st
[07:06] <mirak> hi
[07:06] <bddebian> Hello mirak
[07:07] <mirak> I have some questions about initrd and kernel modules
[07:07] <ogra> elmo, if anybody submits a 90 color indexed xpm with the right size to me, i'm fine with changing it ... and other suggestions are welcome too ...
[07:07] <mirak> who loads the initrd, is it the kernel or the bootloader ? 
[07:08] <mirak> how the bootloader manage to read all the linux file systems ?
[07:08] <mjg59> mirak: The bootloader
[07:08] <mjg59> mirak: By having code to do so
[07:09] <mdz> Diziet: no
[07:09] <mdz> Diziet: sounds like a post-preview change to me, though
[07:09] <mirak> mjg59: I am still iinvestingating why this G3 can't boot ubuntu kernel 2.6.12-8
[07:09] <Diziet> OK.  I don't have much of an opinion.  It's mainly to smooth upgrades.
[07:10] <mjg59> mirak: If it's failing because it can't find the root filesystem, it's almost certainly an initramfs-tools bug
[07:10] <mirak> mjg59: how can I know if the module for the ide device is in the initrd ?
[07:10] <mirak> can I mount the initrd
[07:10] <mirak> ?
[07:10] <mjg59> mirak: Assuming you're using initramfs-tools, it's just a gzipped cpio archive
[07:11] <mirak> mjg59: i don't use such tools, it's the kernel I got with apt-get
[07:11] <mjg59> mirak: Which will be using initramfs-tools, assuming you're up to date
[07:11] <mirak> ok
[07:12] <mjg59> ogra: I'm not sure about the "someone else" thing
[07:12] <mirak> what is a cpio archive ?
[07:12] <ogra> mjg59, talk to mpt
[07:13] <mdz> daniels: find: /usr/lib/xorg/modules: No such file or directory
[07:13] <mdz> daniels: is that expected?
[07:13] <ogra> mjg59, its his wording
[07:13] <Diziet> How strange.  The openoffice.org2-l10n-en-gb postinst seems stuck talking to CUPS via HTTP.
[07:13] <mjg59> mdz: Already been covered
[07:13] <mdz> ok
[07:13] <mjg59> ogra: And I really do follow elmo's opinion on the graphic, I'm afraid...
[07:13] <ogra> mjg59, and he insisted he doesnt like the word user in any dialog... as well as "new login"
[07:14] <mjg59> ogra: Also, the bullet points for the text aren't centred
[07:14] <ogra> bullet points ???
[07:14] <mirak> mjg59: how to extract it ? :(
[07:14] <mjg59> ogra: The circles that appear when you type
[07:14] <mjg59> mirak: Using cpio
[07:14] <ogra> mjg59, thats a trivial change
[07:14] <mdz> mjg59: did you and jbailey decide how to get usplash->mkinitramfs going?
[07:14] <mjg59> ogra: I think they ought to be centred vertically in the box
[07:14] <mjg59> mdz: Not yet
[07:15] <Lathiat> mjg59: i noticed that on my screen, the progressbar cuts into the reeflection, however on my friends it doesnt, any idea?
[07:15] <mjg59> ogra: I don't think it helps that the "Someone else" button looks quite like a text entry field 
[07:15] <mjg59> Lathiat: Upgrade usplash and regenerate your initrd
[07:15] <ogra> mjg59, ok, i'll put it on my list for after preview.... probably someone from the art team submitted a new picture by then and i can do both in one change
[07:15] <mirak> mjg59: why do they use cpio and not gzip ?
[07:15] <Lathiat> mjg59: how recent was that changed?
[07:16] <Lathiat> cus i did that yesterday
[07:16] <ivoks> ogra: could you help me with something?
[07:16] <Lathiat> i'll try again
[07:16] <ogra> mjg59, thst the button from the clearlooks theme...
[07:16] <mjg59> Lathiat: Yesterday
[07:16] <ivoks> ogra: on #ubuntu-motu?
[07:16] <Lathiat> mjg59: ok
[07:16] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah. But on that background, it looks like a text entry widget.
[07:16] <mdz> mjg59: we need either that (preferable) or a workaround for the install, for preview
[07:16] <mdz> jbailey: ping
[07:16] <mjg59> mirak: It's a gzipped cpio file
[07:16] <mjg59> mirak: That's used because that's what the kernel understands
[07:17] <mjg59> ogra: Hm. Who are the people in the picture?
[07:17] <ogra> mjg59, http://www.grawert.net/020505%20059.jpg
[07:18] <mirak> mjg59: ok thanks I extracte it :p
[07:18] <mirak> extracted
[07:18] <sladen> ''CEO looks on as Ubuntu hackers stop off for some quick fun''
[07:19] <ivoks> elmo: please, don't ignore me :) could you remove mozilla-firefox from universe in breezy? it's obsolete (ogra said it's ok)
[07:19] <ogra> mjg59, if too many people complain i'll probably just switch to a plain color or so
[07:19] <mjg59> ogra: I think a plain background with the Ubuntu logo would be fine
[07:20] <ogra> but boring
[07:20] <mjg59> Yeah
[07:20] <mjg59> But the default artwork we ship /is/ fairly boring
[07:20] <ogra> mjg59, i'd like something as cool as your usplash pic ;)
[07:20] <ogra> mjg59, thats not boring at all...
[07:21] <ogra> mjg59, but i was hoping someone from the art team might have something nice... so lets see and wait...
[07:22] <ivoks> usplash is awsome!
[07:25] <mirak> mjg59: I don't know what's wrong because the module is in
[07:28] <mirak> jbailey: hey
[07:30] <mjg59> mirak: Then file a bug against initramfs-tools
[07:30] <mirak> mjg59: what bug can it be ?
[07:30] <mirak> I don't understand where it can come from
[07:30] <mjg59> mirak: I've no idea. I don't maintain that package.
[07:30] <mirak> can you explain just a bit what the tools have to with that ?
[07:31] <mirak> because the kernel is in the initrd
[07:31] <mirak> hem the module
[07:31] <mirak> cmd64x
[07:31] <mjg59> mirak: Right, so it should be getting loaded and work. Except it isn't.
[07:31] <mirak> but it doesn't seems it's loaded at all
[07:31] <mjg59> mirak: Which means there's a bug in initramfs-tools
[07:31] <mirak> ah
[07:31] <mirak> ok
[07:31] <mjg59> So please file a bug against initramfs-tools
[07:43] <jbailey> mdz: pong
[07:43] <jbailey> mirak: Hello
[07:48] <jbailey> mirak: Lemme make sure I understand the backscroll right: The driver is in the initramfs-tools and not getting loaded?  Does it drop you to a shell prompt?
[07:54] <Diziet> No, it's definitely a space alien and not a skull-and-crossbones.  But it's on the partitions it's going to erase.
[07:58] <elmo> doko: or here even - please de-seed libneon23-dev
[07:59] <Diziet> Ah, elmo, got you !
[07:59] <mdz> jbailey: we need an answer for this usplash/initramfs issue 
[07:59] <Diziet> Are you going to sort me out some md5sums files or shall I do my plan B ?
[07:59] <doko> elmo: ok
[07:59] <jbailey> mdz: For being able to rip and replace the usplash bits in the initramfs, right?
[08:00] <elmo> Diziet: your md5sums broke ftp-master :P
[08:00] <Diziet> Oops.
[08:00] <elmo> Diziet: anyway, check out archive.ubuntu.com now, it has them
[08:00] <Diziet> So it does, excellent.  (I'm sure it didn't a day or two ago ...).
[08:01] <Diziet> Oh, damn, I forgot to ask for a find-ls.  (How come you don't have a find-ls ?  Does noone use Lee McLoughlin's mirror on debiand-format archives any more?)
[08:02] <infinito> anyone here does know about d-bus?
[08:02] <Diziet> I've half-read some of the manuals ...
[08:02] <sladen> jbailey/mdz: for the moment could you just have a small packages that depends on usplash, linux-image-xxx.yyy and initramfs and regenerates the initramfs.  You can come up with something better later
[08:03] <Diziet> inf: Are you seeing a usage message during dbus configure ?
[08:03] <mdz> jbailey: for getting it enabled immediately when usplash is installed, and updated when usplash is updated
[08:04] <infinito> Diziet: no, i just want to know if it can be used to mintor if a device is being used
[08:04] <elmo> Diziet: you mean ls-lR?
[08:04] <elmo> Diziet: does 'mirror' need the uncompressed version, or can I ship with just .gz?
[08:04] <elmo> Diziet: and no, AFAIK most people use rsync or debmirror these days
[08:04] <ogra> infinitdbus only forwards messages between processes
[08:05] <ogra> infinito, you can have two apps (one that monitors, one that displays) using dbus indeed
[08:05] <infinito> ogra: uff yes..... excuses.... i didnt remember
[08:05] <Diziet> elmo: ls-lR or find-ls; either will do for me or Lee McLoughlin's program (which is not what I'm using).  And gzipped is fine.
[08:05] <Diziet> I'm going to package up magicmirror because it's incredibly cool.
[08:05] <infinito> ogra: whats the best way to see if /dev/video is being used?
[08:06] <mdz> jbailey: it seems increasingly reasonable for usplash to regenrate the initramfs for the default kernel if it is an official initramfs kernel
[08:06] <hunger> mjg59: Great solution for the acpi-support with hda problem! Works great!
[08:06] <ogra> infinito, lsof probably, or fuser
[08:06] <ivoks> elmo: thank you :)
[08:06] <Diziet> magicmirror can dedupe via hardlinks across mirrors of different things.  Just the thing for n debian-derivatives.
[08:07] <sladen> what about having the kernel package install an alternatives script that usplash can call if it exists...
[08:07] <mdz> jbailey: the only issue would be determining whether that is true
[08:07] <infinito> ogra: thanks :)
[08:08] <mdz> jbailey: if necessary, patch kernel-package to provide that information via a public interface
[08:08] <jbailey> mdz: Right, but the kernel could drop an md5sum /var/lib or something to track whether it generated the initramfs or not.
[08:08] <jbailey> And then anything interacting with it could update that easily enough.
[08:08] <mdz> jbailey: right, all this would be wrapped in an update-initramfs script anyway
[08:09] <mdz> of which newer versions can be pulled in by future kernels if we decide to implement that
[08:09] <mdz> jbailey: this should be your top priority as it is preview-critical
[08:09] <jbailey> a'ight
[08:10] <jbailey> mjg59: Bah. ;)
[08:11] <elmo> Diziet: ok, there's a ls-lR.gz now, or whenever the archive next pulses
[08:11] <Diziet> elmo: Excellent, thank you very much.
[08:13] <siretart> elmo: I really don't want to annoy you, but could you have a look at the keys of ivoks and slomo? they both have quite a backlog of package that they want uploaded...
[08:13] <jbailey> elmo: Thanks.
[08:17] <jbailey> mdz: As part of this, should initramfs-tools update the current initramfs when it's upgrade too?  It's all the same mechanism at that point.
[08:21] <mdz> jbailey: that sounds sensible
[08:21] <mdz> jbailey: during the freeze we won't be making disruptive changes to initramfs, and during development, it'll help get immediate testing for your changes
[08:39] <mdz> jbailey: I wouldn't feel comfortable about this with mkinitrd, but mkinitramfs is thankfully a lot more deterministic
[08:39] <jbailey> *lol*
[08:42] <mvo> ping jamesh (not sure what TZ you are currently in)
[08:55] <Riddell> elmo: can you update the chroot on novo
[08:58] <elmo> Riddell: hum, doing
[08:58] <jdub> http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/blog/projects/ubuntu/1125687160
[08:58] <jdub> ^ READ IT AND WEEP
[09:00] <Nafallo> jdub: that's not northern, Sweden is northern ;-)
[09:38] <jdub> argh, i just got four autoreplies from my announce mail
[09:38] <jdub> and all four were from germans!
[09:40] <ogra> jdub, not me :)
[09:40] <sivang> jdub: what was the announce email about?
[09:41] <jdub> sivang: http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/blog/projects/ubuntu/1125687160
[09:41] <ogra> sivang, ubuntu-devel :)
[09:41] <jdub> BadgerBadgerBadgerTour!
[09:41] <ogra> yay
[09:41] <sivang> ogra: ah yaya!!
[09:41] <sivang> whee
[09:41] <sivang> jdub: are you coming here sometime soon? ;)
[09:42] <jdub> sivang: heh, not on the plan so far, but maybe :)
[09:42] <jdub> sivang: get ilug to send a petition ;)
[09:42] <sivang> jdub: I'll try that, yeah
[09:42] <Treenaks> jdub: Care to celebrate my birthday in Amsterdam? (18-oct) :)
[09:43] <Treenaks> jdub: over a beer
[09:43] <Treenaks> jdub: (that's in the middle of EuroOSCON)
[09:47] <Treenaks>  I'll mail it :)
[09:48] <lamont> ENOPITTI
[09:52] <jdub> Treenaks: rock on :)
[09:52] <jdub> Treenaks: put yourself on the wiki page :)
[10:10] <hmrocha> hello
[10:11] <hmrocha> is it possible that you add a timer to lock screen? so that the users know for how long the computer has been locked?
[10:16] <bur[n] er> hmrocha: i think at this stage in the game, a new feature might be out of the question
[10:16] <hmrocha> but the new lock screen was added yesterday!
[10:17] <bur[n] er> really?  i thought there was a feature freeze
[10:18] <hmrocha> i updated the packages last night and today, when i locked the screen, it appeared a box asking for a password and a new button to let me switch to another user
[10:18] <mvo> bur[n] er: that was sort of a exception, it was just re-added and is around since hoary (more a regression-bugfix than a feature)
[10:18] <hmrocha> it's a great feature being able to switch to another X session
[10:19] <mvo> hmrocha: ^----
[10:19] <hmrocha> mvo, what's that?
[10:20] <mvo> hmrocha: I was answering to the "but we are in feature-freeze" questions some lines below :)
[10:20] <mvo> (just to bring it to your attention)
[10:20] <hmrocha> ok
[10:20] <mvo> and not below but above :)
[10:21] <hmrocha> i'll wait for the feature to be included in a future version :)
[10:22] <hmrocha> breezy is much better then hoary :)
[10:22] <mvo> hmrocha: you may want to file a wishlist bug, but it's likely that the next release will use gnome-screensaver instead of the current xscreensaver 
[10:22] <ogra_ltsp> very likely
[10:23] <mvo> even that :)
[10:23] <ogra_ltsp> ;)
[10:23] <hmrocha> where can i file a wishlist bug?
[10:25] <mvo> hmrocha: bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[10:25] <hmrocha> thanks
[10:47] <hmrocha> are you thinking about including beagle by default in the next version of ubuntu?
[10:47] <mpt> ogra_ltsp: If it's any consolation, OS X also queues lock requests rather than ignoring them if it's already locked. The other day kiko fiddled with the catch on my iBook's lid, and sent it into a *permanent* loop of sleep -> unlock dialog -> sleep -> unlock dialog -> sleep -> ...
[10:48] <mpt> ogra_ltsp: Do you have a screenshot handy of the current unlock dialog? (My Breezy laptop's at home)
[10:48] <ogra_ltsp> mpt, i dont think xscreensaver does, that was a wrong assumption from mjg59 for a different problem...
[10:49] <ogra_ltsp> mpt, currently not... i'll take one for you as soon as i can (xnest doesnt work on ltsp)
[10:49] <mpt> "Someone Else..." works only if the person currently logged in has their name in big letters at the top
[10:50] <ogra_ltsp> it has...
[10:50] <mvo> hmrocha: beagle is available in universe
[10:50] <mpt> otherwise, it's "else what??", so "New Login..." would indeed work better
[10:50] <mpt> It's also very weird to have a button for starting a new session but not a button for resuming the existing one, but you can't do anything about that right now
[10:50] <ogra_ltsp> its the same dialog i showed on the mockup screenshot before, just the unlock button is missing and the someone else button moved to the middle
[10:51] <hmrocha> mvo, i know, i'm running it
[10:52] <mpt> ogra_ltsp: :-/ I can understand why people would look at it and go "huh"
[10:52] <mpt> ogra_ltsp: In that case, perhaps it should be moved right under the name
[10:52] <ogra_ltsp> mpt, in fact i already have a bug "please change that background pic"
[10:53] <ogra_ltsp> above the password stuff ... ugh...
[10:53] <bur[n] er> lol
[10:53] <ogra_ltsp> thats a lot of work.... moving stuff around there isnt really easy
[10:54] <ogra_ltsp> (not a lot of work, but time consuming)
[10:55] <mpt> Sorry, if I'd known the OK button wasn't going to be possible, I would have moved the other one from the outset
[10:56] <mpt> roll on gnome-screensaver :-)
[10:56] <ogra_ltsp> mpt lets talk about changes after preview, i cant (shouldnt) change it now anyway
[10:56] <mpt> sure
[10:59] <mvo> mdz: could you please make "kov@debian.org" the default qa contact for gksu bugs?
[11:00] <mdz> mvo: you now have editcomponents privileges and can do it yourself ;-)
[11:01] <mvo> mdz: I can? then I will do that, thanks :)
[11:01] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, edubuntu starts looking really good :)
[11:02] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, two little glitches left... (dhcp server doesnt start after installation and base-config/late-command ltsp-build-client isnt run yet)
[11:02] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, else its in its ready
[11:03] <ogra_ltsp> s/in its//
[11:06] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: ltsp-server-standalone should restart dhcp3-server in its postinst; if you could send me a tested patch that would be great
[11:06] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, i'll do but tomorrow...
[11:06] <mdz> yep
[11:06] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, could the nfs timeout be on the server side?
[11:06] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: glad to hear it's looking good
[11:07] <mdz> I'll see if i can try an install over the weekend
[11:07] <ogra_ltsp> i think if i have another short session with kamion about base-config we're done
[11:07] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: it's possible, but traffic traces seem to point to a client fault
[11:08] <ogra_ltsp> i think i saw it go away when i restarted portmap, i'll do some tests tomorrow
[11:18] <mvo> ping ogra_ltsp 
[11:19] <ogra_ltsp> pong mvo
[11:19] <mvo> ogra_ltsp: do you got the /msg I send you?
[11:19] <ogra_ltsp> mvo, about the cat ? 
[11:20] <ogra_ltsp> mvo, grmpf
[11:20] <ogra_ltsp>  Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
[11:20] <ogra_ltsp> heh
[11:21] <mvo> ogra: oh, right
[11:42] <zyga> hello everyone
[11:42] <zyga> 2 hours on the bike after several years hurts :)
[11:45] <mvo> hey zyga!
[11:46] <zyga> mvo: hey, what's up? :)
[11:47] <mvo> zyga: the usuall dance at freeze time, bugs bugs bugs :)
[11:47] <zyga> mvo: did you hear about that issue with language-selector, it's supposed to pull country codes from some country-code package
[11:47] <zyga> :-))
[11:47] <zyga> good I'm not maintaining any package :)
[11:48] <mvo> zyga: not sure, do oyu have a bug-number at hand?
[11:48] <zyga> mvo: I'm not sure if anyone filed a bug
[11:49] <zyga> mvo: I cannot remember who told me about it, carlos or jordi probably
[11:49] <mvo> zyga: right now language-selector has it's own languages file for the mapping. that may be improved, right
[11:49] <mvo> zyga: thanks, I'll get in touch
[11:50] <zyga> mvo: does that mean l-s could jus dgettext(country_pack, country_name) ?
[11:51] <mvo> zyga: the language file does only contain some mapping information (to map language-codes to human readable strings)
[11:52] <zyga> mvo: yeah I know - I read the source
[11:53] <zyga> mvo: but that means you could drop the sed scripts making .pot files and just pull everything from country-something 
[11:53] <zyga> (assuming that they have everything that is)
[11:53] <zyga> I'm not sure about the languages though
[11:54] <mvo> zyga: good question, I'm not sure (and too tired) TBH
[11:55] <mvo> zyga: do you think we could talk about it tomorrow again? it was a long day
[11:55] <zyga> mvo: sure, I was just going to bed myself :)
[11:55] <zyga> till tomorrow then
[11:58] <mvo> zyga: cheers