=== Liz [n=Liz@static-203-87-81-158.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@bl5-223-101.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dand [n=dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has joined #ubuntu-doc === avanspronsen [n=andrewv@Toronto-HSE-ppp3866743.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:37] hi Burgundavia === Burglaptop [n=corey@S0106001217da6aab.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:13] can anyone confirm if our PPC runs on non-apple hardware (like Pegasos, Power, etc) [04:18] jbailey, ping? [04:19] jsgotangco: pong [04:19] ahh [04:19] jbailey, any success? [04:20] jsgotangco: Still beating on it. There will be an upload before I go to sleep. [04:20] i just updated some pages now [04:21] Cool, I'll repull svn one more time then. [04:21] I've still mostly been just thinking. [04:22] The problem is that the current svn layout isn't ideal for making packages. [04:22] hmm what is the ideal layout? its always been like that when i came [04:22] (it actually needs housekeeping) [04:23] It should be easy to see things as -common, -kde, and -gnome [04:23] ((or kubuntu-, ubuntu-, etc...) [04:23] The problem is that as soon as something references a file in its parent directory, that will break when packaged. [04:23] Unless the whole thing is thrown into one large source package. [04:24] The problem with one large source package is that it's very hard not to accumulate WIP cruft in there. [04:24] we're being convinced to move away from svn and go baz after this so that it will also give us a window to clean up the stuff [04:24] I think what I'll probably do for this upload is make it one large source package of just the directories that I care about (ubuntu, kubuntu if I can get the KDE stuff to build) [04:24] because at the moment, its one big lump [04:25] of interconnected cruft [04:25] Ugh. When are you planning on doing that? [04:25] If it's reasonable to wait until bzr has a decent centralised model, you are probably best to do that. [04:25] there is no date yet [04:25] If you're not familiar with baz, it's possibly not worth learning all the nuiances. [04:26] well its actually acceptable to just go bzr we'll just have to clean up the current svn for now [04:26] I really enjoy using bzr, but the centralised model isn't in yet. [04:26] svn actually works for us at the moment [04:26] Right, and cleaning up svn is easy enoug. [04:26] (the bigger issue is having people stay and contribute) [04:27] What I would do is probably svn mv it all to a branch point called '/branches/old_cruft', and copy bits into where you want it to be, and fix the links up as a single changeset. [04:27] Probably take one or two people working together about a day to do and then it's out of your way. [04:28] what sean did before after warty was branch to a new set then merged to trunk [04:29] Either is fine. I like moving all the cruft out of the way and starting with a clean slate just moving in what I want, so that I'm cherrypicking in, not decrufting out. [04:30] The nice part is that you always have the history to go back to if you forget something. [04:30] And if you forget something and don't notice... Who cares? =) [04:30] hmm ok i'll put that in todo after everything is settled down [04:30] Sure. [04:30] I suspect that I'll probably be available to help you guys and such after too. [04:30] rad [04:31] i'll lurk for a while its morning here so just ping me just in case thanks [04:31] I tend to silently watch the docteam meetings in #ubuntu-meeting anyway.. =) [04:31] 'kay, will do. [04:31] I'm just finishing up some glibc testing before I start the serious work. [04:31] It's mostly been just poking around and such in the meantime. [04:31] But this upload is a before-I-sleep-tonight task. [04:57] hmm whats going on with the make files in svn at the moment? [04:59] in fact, whats going on with svn in general? [05:04] mmm? === jsgotangco didnt change anything in the make file [05:05] warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/profile-chunk.xsl" [05:05] compilation error: file libs/gnome-ubuntu.xsl line 5 element import [05:05] xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/profile-chunk.xsl [05:05] make: *** [faqi386] Error 5 [05:05] when doing "make faqi386" [05:07] where do you do a make? [05:07] gnome/ [05:08] hmm do you have docbook-xsl? [05:09] hmm let me check.. [05:09] nope === rob^ forgets he did a reinstall [05:10] ok, it seems to be working now :) [05:10] thanks [05:10] np === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:26] wow, the trailer for Aeonflux looks terrible [05:27] the trailer for what? [05:27] on totem? [05:27] or the trailer itself? [05:27] Aeonflux [05:28] i didnt like aeonflux in the first place [05:28] http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/paramount/aeon_flux/ [05:28] a life action film? [05:28] ya [05:29] with Charlize Theron === Burgundavia needs to hug the totem plugin authors [05:29] hmm i should watch that [05:30] looks missable, really... === Madpilot needs to get the totem plugins working in Opera... [05:30] no i'll just watch charlize === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:30] yah, OK, she's decorative, at least [05:30] hmm she looks terrible with that hair [05:31] you were watching her hair? :) [05:31] and that's no aeon flux costume :) [05:32] is the an anime or something that Hollywood's got their paws on? [05:33] its not really anime [05:33] more of like anime-inspired [05:33] aeon flux is relatively old [05:33] to put the revhistory on another page, do we just change the templates/makefile? [05:34] and the main character was always in compromising positions [05:34] as opposed to compromising costumes? [05:35] Madpilot, that as well :) [05:41] Burgundavia, ping [05:43] rob^, pong [05:43] hi [05:43] you need an ATI section written for the FAQ guide? [05:43] Madpilot told my you own an ATI graphics card [05:43] yeah, I was about to add the instructions from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI === Burgundavia observes that so does Madpilot [05:44] I cant check if they work though [05:44] they do [05:44] in Breezy at least [05:44] yeah, but I don't run Breezy... [05:45] ok, well I'll add it, let me know if you have any problems [05:45] thanks [05:45] I can check what you write [05:45] cool, ok [05:46] the most common trip up is the Option "UseInternalAGPGART" "no" addition that is needed [05:54] is that option in there by default or do you need to add the whole thing? [05:54] no [05:55] I think that option is only relevant to those (like me) who run NForce2 mobos still [05:55] do you add it in: Section "Device" [05:57] that is only needed for certain chipsets [05:57] primarily the nforce2, probably the most common budget chipset [05:57] Section "Device" [05:57] Identifier "ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon 9600 XT (RV350 AR)" [05:57] Driver "fglrx" [05:57] BusID "PCI:3:0:0" [05:57] Option "UseInternalAGPGART" "no" [05:57] EndSection [05:57] sorry for the dump, but that's where the internalAGPGART line fits [05:59] hmmm... and I just realized that PCI bit on the BusID line - shouldn't that be AGP something? [05:59] thanks === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:11] when making the faq guide I'm getting a lot of this: [06:12] The shade.verbatim parameter is deprecated. Use CSS instead, [06:12] for example: pre.screen { background-color: #E0E0E0; } [06:12] whats going on there? [06:12] are you in hoary? [06:12] no, Breezy [06:13] hmmm it probably has a new xsl version? [06:13] I also noticed that tags are not shading the background like they used to [06:13] yelp rendering is quite different as well in breezy [06:14] yeah [06:14] (still slow though) [06:14] I'm just viewing this through ff though [06:15] i guess the make needs to be updated post-breezy [06:15] yeah [06:16] jbailey is willing to help us clean out the svn after all the chaos to make things much easier for us [06:16] packaging-wise as well [06:16] looking forward to it [06:16] so most probably we'll branch the old stuff [06:17] instead of them staying stagnant in trunk [06:19] rob^: you want to move the rev history? [06:19] np [06:19] yep, so it doesn't appear on the front page [06:19] thanks [06:20] it is an entity. see faqguide.xml, and move &revhistory; to wherever you want [06:20] yeah I was thinking that [06:21] ughhh the docbook xml by OOo 2 is ugly [06:22] does anyone else think that the faqguide style could use some improvement? [06:22] i'm talking about fonts, colours, etc [06:22] jeffsch, yess [06:22] yelp in breezy is now using gecko [06:22] I'm addressing one of the issues in the patch I just sent to the list [06:24] i'm thinking a sans serif font would be better [06:24] and better spacing between Q's and A's [06:24] and ubuntu colour scheme [06:24] yeah, I would agree with that jeffsch [06:24] yeah [06:24] would an inline css work? [06:25] jsgotangco, jeffsch shall I apply those patches? [06:25] Burgundavia: go for it [06:25] i haven't seen my email feel free to do so if its valid [06:25] patch simpler than patch -p0 blah blah blah [06:26] man I really need a new password.. [06:26] jeffsch, i'm going to add a simple docbook chapter on the styleguide soon [06:26] jeffsch, eventually the styleguide can be our handbook [06:26] jsgotangco: wait until after release... [06:26] yep [06:27] we have time [06:27] we also need a "how to write procedures" part in the style guide [06:27] but all in good time [06:28] you mean step by step procedures? [06:28] yeah [06:28] rob^, which global.ent are you applying this against? [06:28] rob^, the one in generic/libs? [06:28] no [06:28] libs/ [06:28] im just looking at random entries in the gdp handbook [06:29] gadzooks! there's more than one global.ent? [06:29] yeah [06:29] its a mess [06:29] wow [06:29] where is the other one? [06:29] generic/libs/ [06:30] err isn't that the real global.ent? [06:30] will all the links are in the former [06:30] well* [06:30] err wait a minute [06:31] they have always been [06:31] can we just merge them? [06:31] there's only one global.ent [06:31] the one in generic/libs is generic.ent [06:31] not in our svn [06:32] are you certain [06:32] i only have one global.ent [06:32] oops, one is global [06:32] err wait [06:32] we do have 2 global.ent [06:32] whew! I have only one globa.ent as well [06:32] but the other one is in learnlinux [06:32] I'm showing two here, fwiw [06:32] there is libs/global.ent and generic/libs/generic.ent [06:32] the other global.ent isnt really used [06:33] both serve the same purpose [06:33] one in /libs and one in /generic/learnlinux/C [06:33] but we only need one [06:33] oh shit, theres three? [06:33] the other one isn't used really [06:33] it just came in after the merge [06:34] but generic.ent should be merged with only the real global.ent [06:34] ackk more housekeeping... === jsgotangco gonna eat first [06:34] brb [06:34] ok [06:35] but don't merge yet... we don't know what will break if we do [06:35] yes [06:35] after wards [06:39] ok, this weekend i'm gonna try building a style into the xslt customization layer for the faqguide [06:39] the style will be based on the quick tour style [06:40] sounds intresting [06:40] bbs [06:40] cool [06:40] if it works :) [06:40] cool. I may have started something with the styling of that quick tour... === Burgundavia really must work on the quicktour [06:41] yes, you must. It is supposed to be your pet project, after all... :) [06:53] The generated index.html referes to aboutubuntu.css [06:53] hmm [06:53] Ah, under gnome/libs [06:53] The Makefile doesn't install it. [06:53] =) [06:53] for the quicktour, I inlined the css, as it is designed to be distributed outside our controlled environment [06:54] embedded. inline CSS is slightly different [06:54] [06:54] ok [06:55] Madpilot: What's the difference? [06:55] inline styles are right in each seperate tag. Text here is inline [06:56] embedded is the whole stylesheet stuck up in the header of the page [06:56] embedded is declared at the top most of the document right? [06:56] jsgotangco: yes, like the quick tour [06:56] Ah, thanks. [06:57] embedded css is much more manageable then [06:57] much more so [06:57] although nothing beats have a separate .css file [06:57] external stylesheets (standard "foo.css" stuff) are even better, esp. with more than one page... [06:57] s/have/having [06:57] How ought someone to get to the Release notes and stuff? What should take them to that or the FAQ for their architecture? [06:58] the release notes isn't updated at all [06:58] It says 5.10 at the top, I'm happy for now. =) [06:59] because it was only referenced from the external entity [06:59] eh [06:59] Ah, I see. [06:59] This is intended to be the page that FireFox opens to by default. [07:00] no that's About Ubuntu [07:00] i believe the one in hoary was done by the artwork people [07:01] Right, it's in the artwork package. [07:01] Doens't much make sense to have it there, except to minimise the branding headache [07:01] But anyone serious about branding will want to repalce ubuntu-docs anyway. [07:02] jbailey: re: aboutubuntu.css. do you need the makefile to copy it over? i can add it if you need it [07:02] jeffsch: I'll hack around it in the package for now, but it would be good to have it in there. [07:03] As I"m digging through this, I'm getting a clearer idea of the stuff that should be in common. [07:03] ok, i can add it eventually, instead of immediately then [07:03] I haven't looked at how the style sheets are broken out, though. They appear to be single style sheets per thing, rather than a common 'ubuntu' look, and then per-page love. [07:03] The directories are also a bit tossed up by the looks of it. [07:03] it's a mess, no doubt [07:04] Ahaha, funny. The faqi386 refers to an image on the web. === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:05] jbailey: you mean the img link is a full URL, not local? ouch [07:05] jbailey: where? the "draft" background is on the web, but it will be coming off [07:05] Right, for the draft background. [07:05] jeffsch: Except that I'm uploading the package in hopefully aout 20 minutes =) [07:05] yeah the funky draft image [07:06] But so far it looks like the faqguides have the navigation locally and in the right plcae. [07:06] So I just need to adjust aboutubuntu's expectations of life. [07:08] Why was latin-1 chosen for the target character set? [07:08] Was it to make lynx browsing easier for the C locale docs? [07:11] jbailey: to dump the draft image for your build, in libs/common-cust.xsl, change the line [07:11] [07:11] doh! spoke to soon... hold on a sec [07:12] =) === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:16] Ah, IconUbuntu.png just isn't installed. Easy enough. [07:16] So it seems like about-ubuntu's Makefile is just not complete for now. [07:17] Easy enough to fix on the next pass. [07:17] But I'm still curious how the user is supposed to find these docs... [07:18] what do you mean? [07:18] Well, there's a set of faqs and the 'about Ubuntu' page. [07:18] I can register them with doc-base. [07:19] But I suspect that the type of user who can figure out using things that know about doc base probably isn't looking for our FAQ. [07:19] the faq guide should pop up when people hit yelp [07:19] Ah, okay. [07:19] well not just the faqguide [07:20] yes, we need to do something that also links to the other doc or two we are including also [07:20] what are we releasing with ubuntu again? [07:20] Right, so when I hit that lifesaver thing, I see right now that it says "Guide express Ubuntu". [07:20] rob^, faqguide and quicktour [07:20] So that link should be repointed I guess. [07:20] we'll probably still end up with the existing yelp front page and chunk the others [07:20] Burgundavia, thanks [07:22] either we can have something like we have now with just two links (one for the faq guide, one for the quick tour), or we can just have the faq guide appear and place a link in it to the quicktour [07:22] jbailey: the file is gnome/libs/common-cust.xsl [07:22] change to a 'no' [07:22] Cool, thanks. [07:22] how will the faqguide be included if its profiled? in html? [07:22] we have two common-cust.xsl files :( [07:23] yes, html it was decided [07:23] unless of cause the xml is appering properly, then we can review the decision [07:23] it probably wont [07:23] yeah [07:25] when is the document writing cutoff again? [07:26] 8 [07:26] ah [07:26] we're going to include some docs for preview release [07:26] yeah, I was hoping that [07:26] Artwork deadline is the 24th. [07:26] Is there a documentation freeze? [07:26] by some docs, you mean the faq guide and quickguide? [07:27] jbailey, sept. 8 [07:27] What I had talked about with mdz is that I want to get a weekly snapshot going from the docteam into the repository so that there isn't this mad rush next time [07:27] or quicktour even [07:27] jbailey, that should be the cawse [07:27] jbailey, yes, thats a good idea [07:27] jbailey, the problem was that documents arent properly spec'ed to begin with [07:27] so there is always a mad rush in the end [07:28] so docs should have milestone goals as well [07:28] for next release it should be better [07:28] Sure, it'll always get better. [07:28] even if it just contains TODO in the milestones [07:28] That's the great part about experience. =) [07:28] heh ype [07:28] yep [07:28] Well, and I suspect that there are some components of the specs that should have documentation as part of their completion tasks. [07:28] a weekly snapshot may force us to keep a decently organized svn repos! [07:28] yes [07:28] If the docs are being updated as it goes, and those have to be pushed into the framework, it'll make it easier to push it. [07:29] This quickguide isn't in the svn, is it? [07:29] Oh, I see it - under gnome. [07:29] jbailey, the quicktour just hit [07:29] yeah, it kind of reformed into the quick tour [07:30] So which one should I grab? [07:30] quicktour === jbailey has this urge to redo the makefile with automake. [07:30] But it's 01h30 and this is between me and bed. [07:30] ;) [07:31] heh watch you get no sleep because of it.. [07:32] At this point, I'm just dropping the docs into place. [07:32] I'll get yelp to use them and such tomorrow. === robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:59] Uploading. [07:59] cool [07:59] And with that, I think it's bedtime. [07:59] jbailey, thanks! [08:00] I'll nudge elmo about the svn access so that I can help you guys with thecleanup stuff. [08:00] jbailey, cool [08:00] Madpilot, you want to nudge elmo for commit access, it is fine with me [08:00] eventually [08:00] don't even have a PGP key generated yet [08:01] Madpilot, once you get used to Docbook a bit more [08:01] then get it [08:01] once I use Docbook at all, you mean! [08:01] submit some patches to the list [08:01] yeah, without knowing docbook its kind of useless having commit access [08:01] not really [08:01] the quicktour is html [08:01] and will stay that way [08:01] why? [08:01] I've been meaning to get some sort of handle on XML, so this is as good a reason as any [08:02] Madpilot, its fun [08:02] when we can't generate anything from it [08:02] because there is no reason to make it docbook [08:02] eg pdf [08:02] you can do pdf from html [08:02] yes [08:02] I think we can also do pot/po from it [08:03] ah ok, still.. [08:03] the gnome people have a better way on doing this stuff [08:03] (seen on the marketing list) [08:03] oh? [08:03] have you seen luis' email on the 2.12 release notes [08:04] yes, but mostly passed it by [08:04] well its now up for translation they gave a 7-day window [08:04] ah === Liz is away: I'm busy [08:09] Liz, aren't you always ;) [08:10] hmm lots of branching are happening on the gnome-doc list lately [08:12] how come? [08:12] all the branching for the new release must be announced to the -doc list [08:12] oh [08:12] I don't follow that list [08:13] as with any string changes after a certain point [08:13] i'm trying to learn their process [08:13] to suggest it for us? [08:13] they don't have one [08:13] seems so [08:13] fedora has a better structure [08:14] but the people here might find it too strict [08:14] red hat pays people to do docs [08:14] hence they have structure [08:14] yes my point exactly [08:14] heh [08:14] i was about to end that [08:15] i'll just ask questions about our performance after the chaos === Burgundavia has dramatic plans for breezy+1 [08:16] oh? [08:16] care to share it to the rest [08:16] most of them involve us writing less docs [08:16] a lot less [08:16] ok, but can I just say to you please discuss it first [08:16]