[02:00] <JaneW>  **REMINDER** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting here - NOW
[02:00] <JaneW> hello
[02:00] <ogra> hi
[02:01] <ogra> looks like a rather small meeting today :)
[02:01] <Treenaks> ogra: only you? :)
[02:01] <ogra> Treenaks, and you :)
[02:01] <ogra> oh, and flint
[02:01] <ogra> hi flint 
[02:01] <flint> Good Morning from DC...
[02:02] <JaneW> hi flint
[02:02] <flint> yes ollie, I bring greetings from elkner who is actually working!
[02:02] <flint> Hi jane!
[02:02] <ogra> yeah, we talked last night
[02:02] <ogra> (my night)
[02:02] <ogra> :)
[02:02] <flint> no ollie, elkner whined at you and you were kind enough to listen....
[02:02] <JaneW> ok so where are we
[02:03] <JaneW> what happened with kamion's build in the end?
[02:03] <ogra> JaneW, near our first completely working CD
[02:03] <JaneW> define near...?
[02:03] <JaneW> I like the completely working part...
[02:03] <ogra> that one failed, but we'll go on building until its in shape... i wont stop nagging him today ;)
[02:03] <JaneW> good ;)
[02:04] <flint> we are about to start another server install.  The Idea is each server is the latest build.
[02:04] <JaneW> we need to update the BreezyGoals page with progress
[02:04] <ogra> its the only missing bit, the apps should all be ready, artwork has to move to main to get on the CD but thats trivial
[02:04] <JaneW> for Matt et al
[02:04] <ogra> yup, as soon as i can offer a Cd we'll move to green :)
[02:04] <JaneW> great
[02:05] <JaneW> so is the server side still a problem?
[02:05] <flint> We were also beating up matt regarding inconsistencies in the install and live breezy builds.
[02:05] <ogra> thats good...
[02:05] <ogra> ha also urgently need ltsp feedback...
[02:05] <flint> ...well it is even more complicated than that...
[02:05] <ogra> needs even
[02:06] <JaneW> ogra: the main inclusion reports https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
[02:06] <JaneW> I see one server package was rejected
[02:06] <JaneW> one still needs work
[02:06] <JaneW> any issues with either of those?
[02:06] <ogra> mediawiki is dropped... i havent udate yet
[02:06] <ogra> updated
[02:07] <ogra> pitti didnt want it and mdz says we didnt make commitments at the summit, it was rather a survey in his eyes
[02:07] <JaneW> oic...
[02:07] <JaneW> I know a lot of ppl were *happy* at the prospect of it being in
[02:07] <JaneW> and doesn;t moodle require it?
[02:07] <JaneW> or am I confussed?
[02:08] <ogra> so mediawiki is out of discussion... unfortunately moin is very hard to install with the current package
[02:08] <ogra> moodle is standalone
[02:08] <JaneW> oic, ok good
[02:08] <ogra> wikipedia requires mediawiki
[02:08] <ogra> so users have to install it from universe...
[02:08] <ogra> its there, just not in the default install
[02:09] <ogra> i had to cut down the sipped languages for now, else the Cd explodes...
[02:10] <ogra> shipped even
[02:10] <ogra> we currently have en, de, fr and es 
[02:10] <flint> sorry interrupted by crane company representative...
[02:11] <JaneW> can we get moin in?
[02:11] <JaneW> we'll have to have a wiki...
[02:11] <JaneW> sabdfl won't approve it without ;)
[02:11] <JaneW> ogra: wasn;t it wikipedia that needs media wiki?
[02:11] <ogra> if the CD turns out good, i'll see that we'll have a parallel DVD build... but i'd like to keep the CD
[02:11] <JaneW> I am sure something needed it? or was it just our summit attendee's preference...?
[02:11] <ogra> [14:08]  <ogra> wikipedia requires mediawiki
[02:12] <flint> you are going to love this...  Implementation Plan: Phase 1 - Infrastructure, specifies in section 2,Web content filtering will be an essential component of Edubunt as a requirement.
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: es=? 
[02:13] <flint> In Amerika all classroom sites must maintain filtering capability, it is federal law.
[02:14] <ogra> JaneW, spanish
[02:14] <JaneW> ok good, we need spanish :)
[02:14] <ogra> flint, i cant do anything about it...
[02:14] <flint> Elkner asked me to ask about this.
[02:14] <ogra> flint, it has to wait until breezy+1 
[02:14] <flint> so i asked...
[02:14] <ogra> i told him yesterday.-
[02:14] <JaneW> and Matt told you on monday afair
[02:15] <JaneW> or one day tis week at any rate
[02:15] <flint> sorry to whine about this, but who is designing/building this part, and could a proto be available.
[02:15] <ogra> flint, i'll see if i can manage to get a default blacklist packaged 
[02:15] <ogra> flint, thats me too, since nobody wanted the task
[02:15] <flint> ollie, you is wonderful...
[02:15] <JaneW> we simply had far too many 'essential' goals for breezy
[02:15] <magnon> I would _guess_ that if it's federal law to have filtering (never heard about that) - it would have some requirements to the filter?
[02:16] <magnon> which would be beyond a "default blacklist"
[02:16] <ogra> sure
[02:16] <JaneW> which were impossible to complete in the given time with the resources available
[02:16] <flint> If I have time, and do not run out of money I would like to collaborate.
[02:16] <ogra> but its more than we have now
[02:16] <JaneW> flint: take a look at the deferred table on... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyGoals
[02:16] <magnon> also, tuning a filter is an immense amount of work - I've had lots of problems with for isntance political information that students have needed, have been blocked out
[02:17] <JaneW> flint: and those are thing we thought would be in - there's another list of things that were postponed upfront...
[02:17] <ogra> flint, you can currently install squid and squidguard from universe, all thats missing is a blacklist package... we'll have to work out a good default cofiguration for breezy+1 and probably a gui
[02:17] <flint> Jane, the reason that sabdfl has you around is you husband his resources as if they were your own.
[02:17] <JaneW> magnon: exactly, we have had lengthy debates about this
[02:17] <flint> dansguardian is also out there.  I am thinking a shell script...
[02:17] <JaneW> flint: hey leave my husband out of this ;)
[02:18] <ogra> flint, dansguardian is a bit problematic with its distribution license afaik
[02:18] <flint> dear, i am the one they call skinflint.
[02:18] <magnon> danguardian is license problematic, yes
[02:18] <magnon> dans*
[02:18] <flint> thanks for the tip about dansguardian.
[02:18] <JaneW> magnon: do you have anything in your installations?
[02:19] <ogra> flint, currently its not worse than a redhat system, i dont think their squidguard is configured by default...
[02:19] <ogra> next release will be a lot better wrt content filtering
[02:19] <JaneW> also this requirement seems specific to the states...
[02:19] <magnon> I haven't been setting up anything but the firewall, my colleague has worked a lot with the filtering also when he worked at a school
[02:20] <macgyver2> it also seems quite hand-wavy...first section: http://www.ala.org/ala/pla/plapubs/technotes/internetfiltering.htm
[02:20] <magnon> but I think he used some dansguardian, as it was an on site installation
[02:20] <ogra> having a proxy is halpful in any country... if you switch on filtering is up to you ;)
[02:20] <magnon> they are always on a secondary box though
[02:20] <ogra> but lets keep on topic, we dont work on content filtering this release anymore
[02:20] <ogra> (except probably packaging a blacklist package for universe)
[02:21] <magnon> last comment - dans guardian has a weird exception, it is released under the gpl for noncommercial use - distributing that in edubuntu would be hard
[02:21] <JaneW> ogra: yes good point
[02:21] <JaneW> let's stay current for now
[02:21] <JaneW> we'll discuss this again when we have a 'completely working CD'
[02:21] <magnon> good idea :)
[02:21] <ogra> magnon, why ? we dont sell edubuntu and dont plan to
[02:21] <ogra> yup
[02:21] <ogra> which should appear within the next 30min
[02:22] <JaneW> magnon: no money will change hand, except possiblu for support or customisation never for the code
[02:22] <ogra> JaneW, keep it on ice...
[02:22] <ogra> this takes time... i have to sync and test install it...
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: you like to keep us on the edge of our seats don't you ? ;)
[02:23] <ogra> heh
[02:23] <ogra> i cant speed it up, sorry...
[02:24] <ogra> get me a bigger line over here and i can test faster
[02:24] <ogra> ... but the build report should already say something... 
[02:25] <magnon> just assume a worst case scenario already :)
[02:25] <JaneW> ogra: move to a bigger town :P
[02:25] <JaneW> *joke*
[02:26] <flint> we will stand by and build/test with your latest this afternoon ollie.
[02:26] <ogra> JaneW, i'll probably do soon
[02:26] <ogra> GF wants to buy a house...
[02:26] <JaneW> s/on/one
[02:26] <ogra> JaneW, i doubt you offended him :) 
[02:26] <ogra> he wanted to go drinking
[02:26] <JaneW> I think I did
[02:26] <JaneW> but maybe he was just looking for an excuse ;)
[02:27] <flint> on the other hand I am very hurt :^)
[02:27] <JaneW> anyway so are we assuming today;s CD is good or not?
[02:27] <JaneW> because that will determine what to discuss next...
[02:27] <JaneW> flint: I know you'll cope ;)
[02:28] <ogra> i do... i wont stop working on it with Kamion... so if he doesnt stop, it should be good to go today
[02:28] <flint> zimmerman and elkner were conflicted on the installation documentation.  elkner liked ollie
[02:28] <JaneW> ok, so the CD will be good, what then?
[02:28] <JaneW> what's required next?
[02:28] <ogra> mdz didnt like mine because it had an error in the beginning, but thats fixed long ago
[02:28] <magnon> testing?
[02:28] <JaneW> yes the docs, why didn;t Matt like olis install notes?
[02:28] <ogra> getting the artwork on it ...
[02:28] <magnon> and then testing^infinity
[02:29] <JaneW> ok, well then there shouldn't be a problem
[02:29] <JaneW> ogra: ok, and do you have all the artwork you need?
[02:29] <JaneW> I have been soliciting for more, but no luck so far
[02:29] <JaneW> and my own attempt was pitiful
[02:29] <magnon> did you get any response from the badger guy?
[02:29] <JaneW> yes once the CD is good TEST TEST TEST
[02:30] <JaneW> magnon: no :((
[02:30] <ogra> JaneW, edubuntu-artwork currently has a gdm theme, a wallpaper and splash... it sets the icon theme and gdm thme in the postinstall... thats all...i'll add other walpaper over time
[02:30] <JaneW> ogra: ok
[02:31] <JaneW> I mailed Sebastein Loss 4 times, to get some nice mascot stuff... but nothing yet.
[02:31] <magnon> I thought you mentioned that he was going away?
[02:32] <ogra> grmpf...
[02:33] <ogra> the CD is done... it would be good if not someone had made python-epydoc uninstallable ... argh
[02:34] <ogra> i dont even know what python-epydoc is .... grmbl
[02:34] <flint> all hell is breaking out at my house!!!
[02:36] <JaneW> fint: why?
[02:37] <JaneW> ogra: problem?
[02:37] <ogra> JaneW, easy to work around with another rebuild.... but odd...
[02:38] <flint> you would not believe it.  I can sound the all clear now...
[02:38] <ogra> but http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20050902.2/report.html looks very good
[02:38] <ogra> (note that i'm concentrating on i386 only
[02:38] <ogra> )
[02:39] <ajmitch> ogra: looking very good indeed
[02:39] <ogra> ajmitch, if i remove epydoc its a release :)
[02:39] <ogra> but i rather find out what breaky epydoc...
[02:39] <ogra> breaks even
[02:40] <JaneW> ogra: will you look at the other builds once i386 is behaving ?
[02:40] <ogra> JaneW, sure... but most of this stuff will sort itself...
[02:40] <JaneW> ora: good!? :P
[02:40] <ogra> powerpc is missing the fixes from kamion...
[02:40] <ajmitch> ogra: yes, strange, since py-epydoc installs ok here
[02:40] <ogra> many errors there are inherited from ubuntu... 
[02:41] <ogra> they just dont show up there, because we have other default packages
[02:41] <flint> breezy is at least installing...
[02:42] <flint> what i mean is you do not have to install hoary and upgrade any more.
[02:44] <flint> Jane, on another topic, what is the edubuntu mafia doing in Montreal?
[02:45] <JaneW> flint: drinking prolly ;)
[02:46] <ogra> smoking too
[02:46] <ogra> ;)
[02:46] <flint> ...what was that Argintenian drink?  I was thinking that with mcquillin and everyone there we (or maybe you) should think agenda. :^)
[02:47] <flint> or am i jumping the gun?
[02:47] <ogra> JaneW, Kamion means the CD (i386 at least) is good with the next build... i wouldnt start premature champaign orgys, but it looks like we'll be partially green this evening
[02:47] <ogra> powerpc and amd64 have a size problem
[02:48] <flint> how bad a size problem?
 ogra: amd64 is about 6MB over; powerpc is about 50MB over; i386 fits
[02:48] <ogra> amd64 should be easy... i'll find something to drop...
[02:49] <ogra> powerpc hasnt the installer fixes yet...
[02:49] <ogra> so that might change
[02:49] <ogra> jsgotangco, hey, how was thebeer
[02:49] <flint> 50 megs is pessimistically 10 percent...
[02:49] <jsgotangco> salut
[02:49] <jsgotangco> its raining so hard i wasn't able to go out at all
[02:49] <ogra> flint, as i said, there are fixes in the installaer part mising, Kamion didnt do the yaboot update yet
[02:49] <jsgotangco> i had to be content with the cheap wine given to me 3 days ago
[02:50] <magnon> does Edubuntu nescessarily have to hold the 1-cd limit?
[02:50] <ogra> flint, so the 50MB might actually be smaller
[02:50] <magnon> or is the discussion about Breezy in general
[02:50] <jsgotangco> ideally, but not necessarily
[02:50] <flint> the deal at the conference was that we could consider DVD.  Over to you Jane.
[02:50] <ogra> magnon, we are going for a DVD anyway... but i'd like to keep the CD around
[02:50] <magnon> well, going for a dvd wouldnt get you slaughtered for making a double cd set
[02:51] <flint> I am still trying to get over it not fitting on a floppy :^)
[02:51] <ogra> worst case i'll cut the CD down to english only with a language install optin over network
[02:51] <magnon> at least not for Edubuntu, as for me that would be considered an "addon" with extra software
[02:51] <magnon> ogra: may I suggest you include languages we know will be used a lot in countries that might not have very good inet access? :)
[02:51] <ogra> flint, just develop a new and shiny copression algorhitm ;)
[02:52] <flint> ...a 5.25" floppy!  Ollie, is there any magic compression that does character sets really well?
[02:52] <ogra> magnon, we'll have *all* 90 langs on the DVD
[02:52] <magnon> and then scrap things like german, swedish, danish on the cd
[02:52] <jsgotangco> scrap german *gasp*
[02:52] <flint> harsh!  
[02:52] <ogra> flint,  i doubt it, thats why i said develop one ;)
[02:52] <magnon> jsgotangco: you can download it :)
[02:53] <flint> as they say in german "crap"
[02:53] <jsgotangco> tell that to the german who is developing it right now
[02:53] <magnon> :O
[02:53] <ogra> magnon, i just ct down the langs anyway... we currently ship only en, de, fr and es
[02:53] <magnon> jsgotangco: Norwegian isn't in the CD distro, but I'd be all for scrapping it if you included portuguese and spanish etc.
[02:53] <flint> no the internationalization is a foundation of this org.
[02:53] <ogra> s7ct/cut/
[02:53] <flint> loose applications rather than language capability.
[02:54] <flint> wait...why not esperanto?
[02:54] <magnon> because noone talks esperanto? :)
[02:54] <magnon> pardon, but I like being ignorant from time to time
[02:54] <Treenaks> magnon: that's why it's needed in schools 8)
[02:54] <magnon> :)
[02:55] <ogra> guys, the DVD will have them all... no need for discussion ;)
[02:55] <magnon> ;)
[02:55] <magnon> ogra: our ancient servers dont have dvd-roms!
[02:55] <magnon> *sue canonical*
[02:56] <flint> how much are the language files in size?  
[02:56] <magnon> we're obliged by federal law to use servers from the viking age to honor our ancestors
[02:56] <flint> zimmerman indicated that on the distro they were like 50 percent of the payload.
[02:56] <ogra> yup
[02:56] <magnon> also, axe training is obligatory from age 8
[02:56] <flint> ah, federal law rears its ugly head again
[02:56] <jsgotangco> it'll fit in the dvd for sure but with our current size, there were a few times that the cd got overcrowded
[02:57] <jsgotangco> lang packs are huge
[02:57] <JaneW> sorry was lagged
[02:57] <ogra> jsgotangco, i just have set the limit to 700 MB and its still to small for ppc and amd64
[02:57] <magnon> but to be honest
[02:57] <JaneW> sorry but we won;t actaully get any CDs or DVDs initially
[02:57] <flint> zimmerman whined about this lang pack size issue...a lot!
[02:57] <JaneW> we have not been given a budget
[02:57] <ogra> even with only 4 langpacks
[02:57] <JaneW> but we have to make sure they can d/l and be cut to CDs/DVDs
[02:57] <magnon> will edubuntu at this release be used by people who aren't already somewhat proficient? as it's somewhat clear it won't be polished...
[02:58] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco :/
[02:58] <flint> the way out is that i386 is released on cd and amd and ppc are on dvd.
[02:58] <ogra> i'll think about splitting in a install and a lang CD, but the DVD will requre less work...
[02:58] <JaneW> magnon: lol
[02:58] <JaneW> TROLL
[02:58] <magnon> I'm trying to be realistic :p
[02:58] <ogra> flint, either all or none... i cant split up by arch
[02:58] <flint> we in DC love complicated unsatisfactory compromises... I see your point.
[02:59] <ogra> flint, but having a additional DVD for i386 wont do no harm
[03:00] <JaneW> flint: go it, it was a Mojito!
[03:00] <flint> dvd was an option that sbdafl embraces, I still want the floppy option.
[03:01] <ogra> flint i'll see what i can do...
[03:01] <JaneW> ogra: I think that makes sense for the laguage CD to be an extension
[03:01] <ogra> are you fine with a 600 floppy install ? 
[03:01] <ogra> flint, ^^ ?
[03:01] <magnon> to continue on my trollinig, I'll have to be leaving this incredibly constructive meeting in a few minutes :P
[03:01] <JaneW> service the main languages on the first CD and the smaller langauages on the other, it will dramaticall reduce the number of second CDs required.
[03:01] <magnon> *trolling
[03:01] <flint> seriously, on the topic of floppy, we actually ended up trying to install breezy on a machine that had no bios boot for cd.  Remember the old rawrite boot floppy?
[03:02] <JaneW> magnon: I meant a literal Norwegian troll btw ;)
[03:02] <magnon> hehe
[03:02] <flint> There is no troll like Norwegian troll...
[03:02] <magnon> flint: please, don't mention floppies
[03:02] <magnon> I hate them :(
[03:03] <flint> doesn't everyone, until they are the only option, then we find love in our hearts.
[03:03] <JaneW> flint: it's unlikley we'll ship a ~500 diskset in 5,25' floppy!
[03:03] <magnon> kids steal floppies
[03:03] <magnon> (true!)
[03:03] <flint> na i am whining about breezy needing that option for really funky machines.
[03:03] <jsgotangco> err guys is this a meeting?
[03:04] <magnon> jsgotangco: up to several people are gathered here, speaking together, I'd say yes :)
[03:04] <ogra> JaneW, but you can do nifty marketing stuff with 500 floppys :)
[03:04] <JaneW> jsgotangco: it was, but you weren't here to control us...
[03:04] <magnon> ogra: treasure hunt ^^
[03:04] <flint> if ollie is getting an iso out the door, why slow him down?
[03:04] <ogra> yeah
[03:04] <jsgotangco> JaneW: understandable since i'm difficult to begin with
[03:04] <JaneW> ok ogra you can go.. if you want to
[03:04] <JaneW> jsgotangco: just slap me please
[03:04] <ogra> flint, you can neither speed up nor solw down ... i'm totally depenent on our scripts
[03:05] <flint> 500 floppies, we could do a mosaic, or a puzzle!
[03:05] <ogra> slow even
[03:05] <JaneW> jsgotangco: and then cheer up, and don;t be cross with me anymore
[03:05] <JaneW> please
[03:05] <JaneW> flint: frisbees!
[03:05] <flint> the old saying is "if you want it bad, you get it bad" let them run...
[03:06] <JaneW> flint: not hugely areodynamic though, but they fly ok, and take eyes out...
[03:06] <flint> staple them together for clothing or shelter.
[03:06] <flint> nasa likely will use them as a cost effective replacement for shuttle tiles...
[03:06] <ogra> you can ship them different colored and tie them together like apatchwork blanket
[03:06] <ogra> edubuntu quilt release :)
[03:07] <flint> guys i just mentioned the old boot floppy, am i a bad man?
[03:07] <ogra> flint, only in Kamions eyes (our installer god)
[03:07] <flint> sorry s/guys/guys and ladies/
[03:07] <JaneW> flint: you know you are
[03:08] <JaneW> ok do we have anything else to discuss
[03:08] <JaneW> which is actually relevant?
[03:08] <flint> edubuntu class machines, being ltsp class beasts tend to have all the bangs and whistles including boot cds
[03:09] <JaneW> flint: and you can d/l and span-disk copy to floppy if you so chose... good luck
[03:09] <flint> the filter machines (code named "snow-whites" by me) are another story.
[03:09] <ogra> who here needs/uses emacs in his/her classroom ? 
[03:09] <flint> those are for a future release...
[03:09] <magnon> ogra: I used to have it, but they would never run Linux
[03:09] <ogra> flint, do you know if elkner uses emacs for teaching ? 
[03:09] <magnon> used for musical education
[03:10] <jsgotangco> err don't remove emacs please....
[03:10] <ogra> its huge... it would make amd64 installable
[03:10] <flint> he never uses it but, emacs is pretty flexable in size.
[03:10] <jsgotangco> for the sake of free software zealotry....
[03:10] <flint> xemacs is bigger than regular emacs
[03:10] <ogra> yup
[03:10] <magnon> what would free software be without zealots
[03:10] <magnon> emacs sucks, btw
[03:10] <magnon> :D
[03:11] <flint> rms would not be pleased if we did not pay him some homage
[03:11] <flint> word on that, but those that do are zealots.
[03:11] <JaneW> ogra: ok lets get the build built and we'll be green by monday?
[03:11] <JaneW> ogra: we must update BreezyGoals notes too
[03:11] <ogra> JaneW, we'll be green with the next build 
[03:11] <JaneW> today?
[03:12] <magnon> umm... what about letting RMS write a short story and place it linked on the desktop by default
[03:12] <ogra> JaneW, foe i386 at least, yes
[03:12] <ogra> i'll call out todays CD as milesone release i think
[03:12] <JaneW> :)
[03:12] <flint> labor day in Amerika.  Meaningless holiday since the unions have been busted by bush.
[03:12] <ogra> jsgotangco, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
[03:13] <ogra> pick an alternative 
[03:13] <jsgotangco> ahh
[03:13] <flint> is emacs ok or do you need xemacs?
[03:13] <ogra> jsgotangco, i need 50 MB for powerpc and 6 for amd64
[03:13] <jsgotangco> errr why is there bluez
[03:13] <ogra> flint, i'm a vi guy i dont need emacs at all..
[03:13] <jsgotangco> can bluez you don't need that on a server
[03:13] <ogra> jsgotangco, its in ubuntu-desktop its iherited from there
[03:14] <ogra> jsgotangco, i have both, servers and clients
[03:14] <jsgotangco> arrghh
[03:14] <flint> ok lets not start all that again. :^)   Anyway, you are a vim guy.
[03:14] <ogra> if you stumble about something obvious and big, tell me
[03:15] <flint> like i said the elkner and I will be installing whatever iso we find monday.
[03:15] <JaneW> ok, I must go fetch my boys
[03:15] <ogra> JaneW, have fun :)
[03:15] <magnon> I must go meet up with some friends that I almost forgot
[03:15] <magnon> *hugs* :D
[03:15] <flint> i swear he is daft.  He will take your distro and go production with it.
[03:15] <magnon> I'll be back for uber testing on monday
[03:15] <flint> the boys are most important jane.
[03:15] <ogra> flint, i'll send an announcement to the ML if it i386 CD is done
[03:16] <ogra> flint, it should be in a state where he can do that already... 
[03:16] <flint> we will receive it, and download it courtesy of the Arlington OC-1.
[03:16] <flint> damn I love a plan!
[03:17] <flint> are we all out of here?  I am.
[03:17] <ogra> :)
[03:17] <ogra> i'll watch the CD building ...
[03:17] <JaneW> magnon: deal
[03:17] <JaneW> see ya in a few
[03:17] <JaneW> *running now*
[03:17] <flint> later.