=== mvo goes to bed now [12:02] night mvo === GmanAFK is now known as Gman === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfvt [n=sfeehan@pool-71-241-137-217.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] daniels: if I rebuild xaw3d, then I get no libXaw3d.so.6.1 (as of early july, it appears) - is that expected? === infinito [n=infinito@75.Red-80-59-227.pooles.rima-tde.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Abandonando"] === ogra [n=ogra@p5089D034.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === camilotelles [n=Camilo@20132139198.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xTina [n=xTina@p54A259DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === albercomp [n=chatzill@pool-68-238-131-125.sea.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Olrik [n=ulrikulr@0x50c4b154.bynxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Olrik [n=ulrikulr@0x50c4b154.bynxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:01] jbailey: ping [01:02] jbailey: why is mdrun not used in the initrds to assemble /'s md by UUID instead of device name? [01:05] Robot101: ... [01:05] Robot101: I do use mdrun in the initramfs... [01:06] you may use it man, but do you UUUUUUSE it... maaaan? [01:06] jdub: Aren't you supposed to be asleep? [01:06] jbailey: oh... I was looking through p.u.c/~scott/patches/initrd-tools... but you've completely ditched mkinitrd? [01:06] jbailey: its 9am [01:06] it's 9am! === hypatia [n=mary@adsl-66-203.swiftdsl.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:06] not that i actually went to sleep at all [01:06] Robot101: Right. =) [01:06] regardless [01:07] it's 9am! [01:07] Robot101: Seeking testers for the stuff before I upload it to Debian, but I think I might just start doing it. [01:07] jbailey: I'll give it a whirl now [01:07] jdub, lifeless: It's 9am on a *Saturday* [01:07] SMELLY CANADIAN! [01:07] BACK IN YOUR BOX! [01:07] jbailey: I can't switch from my own kernel to a stock kernel because mine uses /dev/hdX for my SATA, the stock uses /dev/sdX [01:07] Only because I've been hauling boxes. [01:08] Robot101: And you have a dislike of using SCSI device names? =) [01:08] jbailey: no, the stock uses libata for my VIA SATA, and my kernel config predates libata and I never changed it yet [01:08] Ah. =) [01:08] So something that'll need to change eventually, just not right now. [01:09] now I'm bored of compiling kernels, and I certainly don't want to have to hand-compile a kernel that uses libata soley so that mkinitrd can write the correct devices into /script [01:09] Oh, I see. =) [01:09] Yeah, mkinitrd sucks for a number of reasons. [01:09] how much will I need to pull from breezy to make this go? [01:10] Gimme a sec, I'll see what I can assemble for you. [01:10] will it work with a stock debian kernel or do I need ubuntu's? [01:10] It occured to me that there isn't a suitable busybox in Debian. =( [01:10] Pretty much any kernel should do. [01:10] I've got breezy in sources.list [01:10] I'll throw a few things in and see what happens :) [01:10] klibc, busybox-cvs and initramfs-tools then === xTina_ [n=xTina@p54A2771F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xTina_ [n=xTina@p54A2771F.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:11] jbailey: what other stuff does mkinitramfs do that mkinitrd doesn't? some udev funk and acpi...? [01:12] jdub: are you coming to philly yet? [01:12] I think the only thing it does that mkinitrd doesn't is easy nfsroot. [01:12] Aside from that, it's just a much cleaner design. [01:13] I was having fun picking apart exactly what this initrd did [01:13] I had to scp it to my laptop because of course, my hand-rolled kernel on my desktop doesn't have cramfs either [01:13] :) [01:14] tseng: you going to pitch for it? :) [01:14] cramfs is teh suck too. === xTina [n=xTina@p54A2771F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === infinito [n=infinito@75.Red-80-59-227.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:16] jdub: dunno, im not really in philly proper [01:16] jdub: hannah is? [01:17] jbailey: how do I get this going then, just mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-1-k7 and give it a go? [01:18] Robot101: Basically, yup === mae [n=mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:19] You might not want to overwrite your working config. =) [01:20] well this is the point, initrd.img-2.6.12-1-k7 *doesn't* work :) [01:20] ;) [01:20] Kernel version too old. initramfs-tools requires at least 2.6.12. [01:20] egg... chicken... [01:20] Err. 2.6.12-1-k7 *is* 2.6.12... [01:21] yes but that's the kernel I'm trying to get working, not the one I'm running :D [01:21] Can you please check to see how you're tripping the version check? [01:21] It shouldn't be checking the running kernel. [01:21] Oh! [01:21] I see. [01:21] You didn't pass it a verison number. [01:21] That would be bad. [01:21] mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-1-k7 2.6.12-1-k7 === tritium [n=michael@pcp0011975002pcs.sandia01.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:21] It doesn't attempt to parse your output filename, it assumes you want the running kernel version. [01:22] trundle trundle... === albercomp [n=chatzill@pool-68-238-131-125.sea.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Robot101 reboots :) === mpt [n=mpt@200-158-81-92.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:24] well that's a bit of an arse === Lathiat_ [i=lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:24] it loaded the right module which has just wedged [01:24] sata_via... tum ti tum [01:25] then ata1: dev 0 ATA, max UDMA/133, 160086528 sectors [01:25] and then locked up === Robot101 tries with no apic, that's never worked properly on his box [01:26] jbailey: rock, it worked! === otavio[off] is now known as otavio [01:29] jbailey: aha, /dev/pts isn't mounted [01:30] jbailey: is that usually in fstab on ubuntu? [01:30] hmm... no... [01:32] Umm, I think udev might mount that? [01:33] No, mountvirtfs does [01:33] that's odd [01:34] Swiching to stock kernels now should be as simple booting with it and changing the root= line in grub, I think. [01:35] with mkinitramfs you mean [01:35] Right. [01:35] I didn't need to change the root line because it's still /dev/md0 [01:35] still puzzled by the pts lackage [01:35] Oh, I see. =) [01:36] I hadn't realised you were on raid. === Mitario [n=michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:36] So in that case, yes, you shouldn't have to change anything. [01:36] It'll just autodetect all of that. [01:36] Mitario: you in amsterdam? [01:36] jdub, umm, 'bout 50km [01:36] well the reason mkinitrd didn't work was because a) it didn't load my sata driver plus b) it hardcoded the path to my SATA drives as hdX [01:36] jdub, 1 hour by train :) [01:36] jdub, or do you actually mean now? [01:37] jbailey: can I put something in kernel-img.conf to use mkinitramfs from now on? [01:37] Mitario: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BadgerBadgerBadgerTour [01:37] Robot101: Right. There's none of that hardcoded in there. [01:37] Robot101: Ubuntu's kernels will do it automatically. I don't think Debian's kernels have the hack, but they might. Try adding: "ramdisk = /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs [01:37] " [01:38] ISTR Fabio sent it off to Manoj, but I didn't track if it was accepted or not. [01:38] jdub, ah cool! well, I can always drop by :) [01:38] Mitario: rad :) [01:38] jbailey: the funny thing is, mkinitrd will work for now... :) [01:38] actually, it might be too shit to work out that sda and sdb are from sata_via [01:38] scratch that, it is. [01:39] That logic always scared me. It was so bloody fragile. [01:39] oh well, every time I pull down a stock kernel the next reboot will be an "oh shit" :) [01:39] until we burninate mkinitrd === jbailey checks which channel we're in. [01:40] Oh good. [01:40] I can safely encourage you to just use Ubuntu here. =) [01:40] feh :P [01:41] its tempting actually, but I think at some point I'll go Xen and run debian and ubuntu at the same time :) [01:41] but probably sit at ubuntu and have debian in the background [01:41] :) [01:41] just because I can really... [01:42] ISTR a recent announcement saying that we're going to Xenify our stuff sometime. [01:42] yeah, xen 3.0 actually works now [01:42] Ah, handy. [01:42] like acpi, apm and stuff === jbailey checks for ppc support/ [01:42] I'm surprised ppc support has been so long coming [01:43] ooh, the Debian images do have ramdisk = === Robot101 fixinates [01:43] jdub: i cant comment on your blog post about pyjamas [01:43] jdub: it is calling out to me [01:43] xen-3 is out? [01:43] elmo: poorly phrased, I meant xen 3.0 will actually work on most hardware [01:43] Hm, is there a known bug with dpkg > 1.10.27ubuntu1 (e.g. the one built against the fixed zlib) that causes the unpacking step of apt-get install kubuntu-desktop on a fresh system to fail reliably (but sometimes with different packages) if dpkg has been updated beforehand? [01:44] I tried it repeatedly on multiple systems with automated installs -- if I insert a dist-upgrade before installing kubuntu-desktop, the installation fails in 90% of the attempts, if I keep the old dpkg until kubuntu-desktop has been installed it works 100%. [01:44] Robot101: Anyhow, anything esle you need? I think I'm otherwise going to wander away for the evening. [01:44] jbailey: no I'm hugely grateful, and encourage you to spread mkinitramfs far and wide :) === Robot101 qualifies above remark about PPC support in Xen by adding that when Xen was released, a security reasearch team chipped in and said "oh yeah we've been doing that on PPC for 2 years, we'll merge it in" [01:47] team in IBM, even [01:48] Robot101: Lovely. Yeah, I need to get around to merging that in to Debian. *sigh* Too much to do. =) [01:49] jbailey: anything I can help with? [01:50] jdub: couldn't tempt you up to cambridge for bit when you're in london? :) [01:50] Robot101: If you'd be willing to help negotiate adding busybox-initramfs to whichever busybox is being maintained, that would be lovely. [01:50] jdub: add * drink ale with debian-uk in cambridge :) [01:50] In Ubuntu, busybox-cvs is more recent, but I think the busybox package is a better choice in Debian. [01:51] Robot101: i'll put a ? ;) [01:51] Robot101: If someone is actively caring about this, it's incentive to beat klibc into shape. initramfs-tools is just a simple upload. [01:51] jdub: post to debian-uk@chiark.greenend.org.uk and fix a date :) [01:52] jdub: or badger people in #debian-uk on OFTC [01:52] you said badger [01:52] "Catch up with RobertMcQueen, ColinWatson and the whole Cambridge debian-uk mafia?" [01:52] ^ haw haw === tseng does the peewee bit about running around screaming [01:52] jdub: I'm not a very high ranking member of the UK cabal :D [01:53] Robot101: anyway, you should post :) [01:53] jdub: to what, my blog? :) [01:53] debian-uk :) [01:53] oh right [01:53] I thought you'd found a comical hackergotchi for me :D [01:54] http://images.google.com/images?q=robot [01:54] :) [01:54] jdub: any particular date preference? [01:55] jbailey: ahh, I worked out the pts problem [01:55] jbailey: it's because I've not been able to upgrade udev :) === infinito [n=infinito@75.Red-80-59-227.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:55] jbailey: because of being on <2.6.12 === Robot101 tries that [01:56] Our udev doesn't have that deficiency.. =) [01:56] We stopped taking newer versions of udev intentionally so that upgrades from Hoary to Breezy wouldn't suck. [01:57] ahh === Robot101 upgrades to breezy's udev [01:57] There's some clever features in the newer udev that if you've never had, you won't miss. =0 [01:57] clever? [01:58] jbailey: Keybuk explained it the other day but I forgot what it was [01:58] desrt: Where, there's bits like /dev/by-label and /dev/by-uuid [01:58] oh yeah, it deprecates almost all of hotplug because the kernel tells udev enough information to just read modules.foo itself and get the right module [01:59] so then you can put coldplug on [01:59] jbailey; oh. that's really cute. [01:59] I think there's some other bits that can use the new socket interface of getting events from the kernel to react a bit more cleanly. [01:59] and be done with hotplug entirely [01:59] Right, we do that in the initramfs. [01:59] Which is why it requires 2.6.12 =) [01:59] do what, coldplugging? [01:59] Yeah. [01:59] hi! [01:59] does anyone know what signal send gnome session to apps when closing? [01:59] i need to make some actions on my program before closing session... [02:00] so does that mean I can just take hotplug off my system if I have a sufficiently new udev? :) [02:00] That's why it was able to detect everything for you, it doe sit all at boot time and just loads up most of the modules to give itself the most choice at bootup. [02:00] infinito; see the topic [02:00] Robot101: No, the ide bus is still not covered. [02:00] i think SCSI is now, though. [02:00] ah, you need a newer udev to be able to install coldplug [02:00] what happens if you coldplug twice? :) [02:01] desrt: i'm writing an app for ubuntu, is that included on ubuntu-development?? [02:01] infinito; cool. what app? [02:01] Robot101: Nothing bad. The module is already loaded. [02:01] desrt: a webcam activity monitor applet === Robot101 toasts hotplug... pile of crap [02:02] infinito; i think you're pretty much screwed if you're an applet :( [02:02] actually let me test if I get any ptys :) [02:03] infinito; consider making a note about your desired use case on the AppletsRevisited page of the gnome wiki [02:04] desrt: well, in fact is not an applet, is a tray icon that notifies when your webcam is on [02:04] jbailey: does it do everything, including sound etc? [02:04] jbailey: (in the initrd) [02:04] Robot101: No, just storage and network. [02:04] mm. [02:04] And framebuffer and acpi. =) [02:05] infinito; either way, i don't think applets or tray icons get asked nicely when the session is about to end [02:05] infinito; the best you can do is probably register a signal on the 'destroyed' event of your eggtrayicon widget [02:05] desrt: eh? [02:05] infinito; btw. this isn't really related to ubuntu development [02:05] desrt: if it's a GnomeProgram you can use the gnome_session_* stuff [02:06] desrt: ok, sorry, thanks anyway :) [02:06] it probably emits signals to tell you gnome is closing down [02:06] Robot101; can trays that don't have their own main windows be gnome programs? [02:06] hrm [02:06] desrt, Robot101: it's python [02:07] sure, but you should still be able to use libgnome... === Robot101 pokes [02:07] :) === desrt gets ready to go out [02:07] infinito; good luck [02:07] desrt: thanks [02:08] Evening [02:11] do we have a trivial tag or equiv in our bugzilla? [02:12] 'tag' ? [02:12] in debbugs, you can assign tags to bugs, 'patch', 'trivial', 'unreproducible' etc. [02:12] oh right, that form. [02:12] uhm, you could abuse milestones, but thats all that comes to mind [02:12] and I do mean ABUSE [02:12] ah, easyfix keyword [02:13] (or 'patch', but in this case 'easyfix' is actually better [02:13] infinito: libgnomeui gets you session management [02:14] Robot101: under python as well? [02:14] dunno [02:16] I don't see why python wouldn't bind session management [02:18] infinito: gnomeclient is what you want [02:18] http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/libgnomeui/GnomeClient.html [02:19] Robot101: umm thanks, im gonna take a look at it... [02:19] infinito: gnome_init or similar establishes a connection to the session manager [02:19] infinito: then you can get a gnomeclient object and bind signals on it [02:20] infinito: like "die" :) [02:20] Robot101: that's what i was reading [02:21] afternoon [02:21] it's not tied to GnomeProgram (which would make little sense really) [02:21] jbailey: yeah, newer udev mounts /dev/pts for me :) [02:29] anyone know why permissions on a bunch of device nodes get screwed when the mplayer package upgrades? === Lathiat [n=lathiat@202.92.213.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir|Away [i=aegir@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sjg [n=jason@67.126.87.116] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === otavio_ [n=otavio@201.10.58.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvolt1ge [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvolt2ge [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-devel === otavio [n=otavio@201.10.58.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bradb [n=bradb@modemcable033.209-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bradb [n=bradb@modemcable033.209-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === sfvt [n=sfeehan@pool-71-241-137-217.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:29] breezy live booting: "no eathernet found, but firewire was" no eathernet is correct, but there isn't any firewire either. [03:30] is bugzilla still the place? === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === avanspronsen [n=andrewv@Toronto-HSE-ppp3866743.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir|Away [n=aegir@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:54] Robot101: Right, but it's mountcirtfs that does it... === OddAbe19 [n=OddAbe19@pcp02542642pcs.lncstr01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:56] jbailey: but it didn't when I had udev <060 [03:59] Add set -x to the top of S02mountvirtfs? [03:59] Robot101: Otherwise known as bug reports welcome. =) [04:01] breezy live doesn't put my old P2 laptop into 1024x768 - is this worth bugging? === Lathiat [i=lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:20] will kernel 2.6.12 bring me something in Ubuntu ? [04:21] compared to 2.6.10? [04:23] hot chicks [04:23] riches beyond your wildest dreams [04:23] I have plenty of that already [04:23] what else? === dereks [n=derek@pcp0011385359pcs.ebrnsw01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:31] 2 more === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === malvo1 [n=macca@pool-71-103-7-181.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === otavio [n=otavio@unaffiliated/otavio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === malvo1 [n=macca@pool-71-103-7-181.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dooglus [n=dooglus@rincevent.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:07] hi === Aegir|Away [i=aegir@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lathiat [i=lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:20] mdz: yes [05:20] lamont-away: i don't know === Aegir|Away is now known as Aegir [05:25] daniels: Don't suppose you had any joy poking the X300 stuff any further? === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:31] mjg59: i haven't had any time, sorry [05:33] daniels: Ok, no problem [05:33] daniels: I should file a bug about it, really... [05:34] mjg59: i suspect ati don't care because they submit everything via the cp instead of via mmio, so getting r300 dri support in might neatly skirt the problem ;) [05:36] daniels: Haha [05:36] Though it would also require PCI express DRI... [05:37] But you think it's just a matter of syncing the engine in the right place? [05:37] mjg59: oh, yeah, duh [05:37] mjg59: well, idling the engine *works*, but it's usually a workaround for something else (usually an asic bug) [05:37] it slaughters performance [05:38] normally ATI are able to let us know what the particular hardware bug is and how they worked around it, but no more, it seems [05:39] Hm. [05:39] Still better than switching off acceleration completely, right? [05:39] Can you make it specific to the X300? [05:43] yeah, worst-case scenario is that I just have an if block which defaults accel to false on the x300, true otherwise [05:57] Ok, cool === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jk- [n=jk@ppp58-189.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [n=Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Rotund [n=joe@207-118-214-144.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === Firetech [n=Firetech@h53n1fls301o1100.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-071-131.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ohphracku [n=zombie@cpe-66-87-4-181.ut.sprintbbd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pef [n=loic@lns-vlq-39f-81-56-130-224.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chris38-home [i=Christia@LSt-Amand-152-31-21-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:53] hello [08:59] hello [08:59] what are 'Release' files? [09:00] I'm translating the installer and I've found some messages I cannot really understand: 'Failed getting Release signature file ${SUBST0}.' === ivoks [n=ivoks@lns01-0521.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jk- [n=jk@ppp58-189.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:27] mjg59: does usplash use double-buffering? [09:28] you *can't* double-buffer with vga, can you? [09:29] fill a couple of registers, poke an int, rinse, repest [09:30] ew, ok. [09:30] I thought you still had an fB? [09:30] s/B/b/ [09:31] i thought vga had more than 1 screen [09:31] Mithrandir: well, you do have an fb, but at a fundamental level, the fb still has to draw with poke-poke-int-poke-poke-int-poke-poke-int [09:32] Mithrandir: you can't just draw offscreen and tell the card to scan out from that buffer now [09:32] (nice as that would be) === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.111.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:34] daniels: you should be able to map the fb, and then just memcpy onto it. :-) [09:35] Mithrandir: hah. not how vga works. [09:35] daniels: vga sucks, then [09:35] :-) [09:36] its interesting, mjg59 reckons that in most cases that vesa breaks suspend and that vga16 works, yet in my case vesa works and vga16 always screws my consoles up. :) [09:36] i seem to always get thigns upside down === lionel_ [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:54] Mithrandir: well, duh [09:56] daniels: any reason why /dev/input/mice doesn't default to ExplorerPS2, but ImPS2? [09:57] (changing it makes my MX518's side buttons work correctly) === hunger [n=hunger@p54A62A73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dand [n=dand@freenet.cs.utt.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:09] Mithrandir: need to establish whether or not it breaks non-explorers === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === janimo [n=jani@catv3EC94ACF.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:11] daniels: so if I can verify that it works correctly with a ps2 and usb mouse, it's ok? [10:11] Mithrandir: go and find the cheapest, shittiest, oldest ps/2 mouse you can see [10:11] Mithrandir: test it with 50 or those [10:11] I generally don't have shitty hardware. :-P [10:12] shit, I just trew a crate of those out last month. literally. [10:12] Mithrandir: i noticed those [10:14] I mean, why would you save old, shitty, cheap hardware? ;-) === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:14] mvo: the language-selector UI needs some love, I think. [10:15] mvo: if you don't make any changes, "Ok" is a noop === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:15] mvo: should it possibly be "apply changes" and "quit" depending on whether you have done any changes or not? [10:15] s/and/or/ [10:16] Mithrandir: yes, it should probably just set the ok button to insensitiv if nothing changed [10:17] Mithrandir: did you noticed other problems as well with it? [10:17] mvo: the norwegian setup is wrong, since there is not a "Norwegian" language, there are two forms of norwegian, which should be treated as two languages for all practical reasons. [10:18] mvo: I think setting the button to insensitive is wrong; an application should be quittable without using the wm decorations. [10:20] mvo: morning :) [10:21] mvo: I'd love to hack language-selector === carlospc [n=carlospc@85.136.53.174] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:22] zyga: go for it :) === Valandil [n=chrys@dsl-084-056-088-152.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:22] mvo: I hope it runs on hoary though :/ [10:23] zyga: uhh, it depends on a updated python-apt [10:23] Mithrandir: well, if "ok" is insensitiv, "cancel" is still available :) [10:23] mvo: installing breezy's .deb will probably pull everythin in [10:24] zyga: yes :/ [10:24] mvo: how about 'Apply changes' and 'Exit' [10:24] mvo: language-selector looks like a dialog, "Cancel" should undo the changes, really. [10:24] apply could become sensitive [10:24] Mithrandir: so it should just be "Norwegian Bokmal" and "N. Nynorsk" but not "Norwegian" ? [10:24] mvo: correct. [10:24] mvo: both should have fallbacks to no_NO [10:24] mvo: will python-apt work on hoary if I build the deb myself? [10:24] zyga: yes, it should be [10:25] mvo: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends} [10:25] (I just tried dpkg-buildpackage) [10:28] mvo: arghh... it depends on libapt-pgk-dev [10:31] mvo: It might just work... [10:31] zyga: yeah, it should === MagnusR [n=magru@85.194.14.142] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cassidy [n=cassidy@126.208-136-217.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:46] What do I need to do to make xdm install cleanly? Currently it exits postinst with status 1. [10:51] mvo: http://pastebin.com/353434 [10:51] mvo: tell me if it's okay to override those dependencies [10:53] zyga: it dosn't build with the old libapt-pkg-dev? [10:53] from hoary? === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D1F33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aric_ [n=Septor@EATcf-374p101.ppp15.odn.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:07] mvo: when you said it depends on new python-apt I assumed it needs all updated apt stuff === Aric_ is now known as Aric [11:09] zyga: you are right, it does. it needs >= 0.6.40 to build [11:10] anyone heard from DanielS when the next breezy Xorg packages will go up? === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sedak [n=fred@82-32-125-115.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === msturm [n=msturm@kbl-gs8065.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo needs to get some food === fred__ [n=fred@82-32-125-115.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [n=agp@cm-80.111.97.105.chello.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === olemke [n=olemke@p548936BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dand [n=dand@freenet.cs.utt.ro] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === carstenh [n=carstenh@mkfw.fh-trier.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === terrex [n=terrex@84-122-80-108.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:52] Hi [11:52] hi pitti [11:53] hi pitti [11:53] Hi guys [11:56] carstenh: could you sleep a bit? :) [11:56] pitti: sure :) [12:01] doko: thanks for building a mythes shlib :-) === kronoss [n=kronoss@FW-7-250.go.retevision.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:08] hi [12:09] Hi kronoss [12:11] morning all [12:11] pitti: aren't you taking a weekend time off? ;-) [12:13] sivang: yes, just some email reading :-) === herzi [n=herzi@p548DBCED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:27] jbailey: wow, mkinitramfs is very neat === highvolt1ge [n=Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:27] Robot101: what's neat about it ? [12:28] how flexible and elegant it is compared to mkinitrd [12:28] which is just a hairball of crap that doesn't actually work in any remotely interesting situations [12:28] Robot101: but it serves different purposes, no? [12:28] (*especially* when upgrading from a hand-rolled to a stock kernel) [12:29] Robot101: eh, so it allows some more corner cases , that's always nice === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-134-235.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:29] sivang: it makes an initrd.ing which brings up your hardware and mounts your / [12:29] sivang: it's a damn sight better at it than mkinitrd is [12:29] s/ing/img/ [12:30] Robot101: does it have anything to do with RAM ? =) (given it's name) [12:30] initramfs is just a better replacement for initrds in 2.6 kernels [12:31] Robot101: ah I see, so what does the ram in its name stands for? is it just its name? [12:31] sivang: same as in initrd, I guess [12:31] the kernel always has a rootfs, which is a RAM-based filesystem, and when given an initramfs image, which is a gzipped cpio thing, unpacks it into the rootfs [12:31] the r stands for ram [12:31] ram as in random access memory or something else? [12:32] ompaul: yep, I think so [12:32] azeem: k, thanks [12:32] initramfs lets you use as much space as you want, and its writable [12:32] Robot101: how's that? [12:32] and you don't give the kernel a filesystem image, you give it a cpio.gz essentially === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:33] initrd sets you up a ramdisk device of a certain size, and unzips the initrd into it, then mounts that filesystem [12:33] so you only have as much space as your filesystem image === AstralJava [n=jaska@83.102.38.17] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul is very upset today }:-) where would I find the person with the authority (say it like they do in south park) or even the interest to figure out why I can't connect to the torrent service to hand away more ubuntu - I have to upload something so kanotix is winning for the first time in months today [12:34] Robot101: what was the obsticle in making it variable size that initramfs overcame ? [12:34] sivang: tmpfs/ramfs/rootfs lets you store filesystems in the VFS file caches basically [12:35] sivang: so it's like a cache of files off disk filesystems, without a disk === marcin_ant [n=marcin@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:35] sivang: so unless you place a limit on its size, your filesystem is as big as you have free virtual memory === Lathiat_ [i=lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sebest [n=chatzill@sebest.ovibes.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:36] Robot101: right. makes sense. And initrd was just plain file that was read from disk in boot time, which entitled the size barrier? [12:36] sivang: whereas for an initrd image, the ramdisk is a pretend block device the kernel sets up for you, and they have a fixed size === daniels [n=daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [12:37] sivang: the choice of using cramfs for the image makes for smaller initrds, but means that this pre-/ root filesystem can't be written, so the first thing that happens in the initrd is mounting up a load of tmpfs filesystems and copying stuff around [12:37] sivang: anyway, the use of initramfs in the kernel instead of initrd isn't the reason that mkinitramfs is better than mkinitrd === jlj [n=agp@cm-80.111.97.105.chello.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:38] Robot101: then what is the reason? =) [12:38] woah. vdk is a beast.. [12:38] sivang: the reason is that mkinitrd is a crap fragile hack which produces initrds that don't reliably initialise your hardware and mount your / :P [12:38] Robot101: that's I've seen , that's probably because of all the loosy file copies and the size constraints no? [12:38] sivang: no, that's because mkinitrd is just crap [12:39] Robot101: say, as a side note, are you familiar with PKG_CHECK_MODULES directive in autoconf configure files? [12:39] sivang: you could very easily put most of the clue in mkinitramfs's images into an initrd, but there'd be no point [12:39] sivang: not really, sorry :-/ [12:40] Robot101: k, np , guess I'm off to the autoconf channle [12:40] wow, there is one? === mjr [i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:42] Robot101: apparetly, there is only one person in there, so I asked aways in #gnu as well === Elleo [n=Elleo@shellsong.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [n=slomo@p5487E151.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@p5089EE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@host76-81.pool8257.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@host76-81.pool8257.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mxpxpod [n=bryan@unaffiliated/mxpxpod] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:08] is this a good place do ask where does g-n-m take information about active interfaces ? it's not e-n-i because it shows devices not mentioned in the interfaces file, and it's not hal for the same reason, and it's not ifconfig because it does not show all the interfaces ifconfig shows, so how does it work or where can I ask ? === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-157-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:11] shackan: I guess "all of the above" applies. [01:12] ugh [01:12] shackan: It definitly gets static configuration from /e/n/i from what I learned here. [01:12] shackan: But it does do additional device discovery. [01:12] shackan: Yeah, I know... it sucks. [01:13] I hope it could just use hal === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:13] shackan: Dynamic stuff defined in /e/n/i is ignored... [01:13] that's what it's meant to do.. [01:14] ok, briefly, I want a particular interface to show up in the manager [01:14] shackan: ifupdown stores state on interfaces in /var somewhere [01:14] shackan: Well, it is meant to configure interfaces. I do not care where it does store its configuration, but I hate it to be in several places. [01:14] Robot101: /etc [01:14]