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| rob^ | couple of patches sent to the list, bbl | 01:48 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgundavia | rob^, applied | 02:20 |
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| mpt | Ugh ... yelp is very much slower under breezy | 04:29 |
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| jsgotangco | jbailey, ping? | 04:35 |
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| jbailey | jsgotangco: Hey! | 05:47 |
| jbailey | I'm back now. =) | 05:47 |
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| Madpilot | dog, there's a bumper crop of idiots over on #ubuntu tonight... | 05:49 |
| Madpilot | just had to vent, be back later... | 05:50 |
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| jsgotangco | jbailey, i guess you already know the ubuntu-quickguide breakage :) | 05:58 |
| jbailey | Yup, but that's not one of the docs you guys are doing for breezy, right? | 05:59 |
| jbailey | mdz dropped it from ubuntu-standard today. | 05:59 |
| jsgotangco | right | 05:59 |
| jbailey | Cool, so that's all sorted out then. | 05:59 |
| jbailey | I'm going to resend the request to get write access to the ubuntu-docs repo, it hasn't come through yet. | 06:00 |
| jsgotangco | you emailed elmo? | 06:00 |
| jbailey | Yes. | 06:00 |
| jbailey | But they've just moved to a queue-based system, so I've resent it to that. | 06:01 |
| jsgotangco | nice | 06:01 |
| jsgotangco | jeffsch, ping? | 06:01 |
| jbailey | I will ask mdz tomorrow about updating documentation until the release date. Is there anything else I need to handle while you guys are asleep? =) | 06:01 |
| jbailey | (It's midnight here. *g*) | 06:02 |
| jsgotangco | ahh | 06:03 |
| jsgotangco | hmm no just cleaning up some docs atm | 06:03 |
| jsgotangco | 2 days to go anyways | 06:03 |
| jsgotangco | hmm just one final question | 06:04 |
| jsgotangco | who's going to do the yelp/scrollkeeper work? | 06:05 |
| jbailey | I suspect I will be. | 06:05 |
| jbailey | I have main upload privs, so it makes sense, I think. | 06:05 |
| jsgotangco | ok would you be able to teach me or other guys here about this after the chaos? (as well as the packaging part) | 06:06 |
| jbailey | I shall do my best. =) I'm still not sure who all the 'guys around here' are. | 06:08 |
| jsgotangco | oh the active ones are just a handful (me, Burgundavia, jeffsch, mgalvin, jjesse, mdke) | 06:09 |
| jsgotangco | mpt helps as well | 06:09 |
| jsgotangco | oh and rob^ | 06:09 |
| jsgotangco | (sorry rob^ i fogot about you_ | 06:09 |
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| jsgotangco | im gonna grab lunch first brb =) | 06:11 |
| ajmitch | jbailey: I just recently started lurking | 06:12 |
| jbailey | ajmitch: Ah, the ever present Andrew. =) | 06:12 |
| === jbailey ducks. | ||
| ajmitch | of course ;) | 06:12 |
| ajmitch | I've had the misfortune of writing docs in the past | 06:13 |
| jbailey | I don't mind writing docs. I'm even passably good at it. | 06:13 |
| jbailey | There's usually just so much to do otherwise, too. | 06:13 |
| ajmitch | yeah | 06:14 |
| ajmitch | MOTU work is surprisingly time-consuming | 06:14 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 06:14 |
| jbailey | I imagine. | 06:14 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: Oh, that remnds me... Release notes. | 06:14 |
| jbailey | Is there a wiki page for it yet? | 06:14 |
| jbailey | If not, do you mind if I create one and announce it? | 06:14 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey, please do, the problem i have at the moment is i dont know where to start and what features, etc. | 06:15 |
| jbailey | I suspect the right thing to start with is to just get notes from the various uploaders on things that they know already will be an issue when upgrading. | 06:17 |
| jsgotangco | hmm and known bugs perhaps? | 06:17 |
| jsgotangco | the draft 2.12 release notes have such | 06:18 |
| jbailey | 2.12? | 06:18 |
| jbailey | Oh, you mean gnome? | 06:18 |
| jbailey | Status of sending notification mails: | 06:18 |
| jsgotangco | yes the one being done by luis (i think its already finished) | 06:18 |
| jbailey | [en] DanielHolbach, DanielRobitaille, AndrewMitchell: Mail sent OK | 06:18 |
| jbailey | ajmitch: Stalker. | 06:18 |
| ajmitch | jbailey: .* is great | 06:18 |
| jsgotangco | he's subscribed to all the wiki pages | 06:18 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: This doesn't refute my statement in any way... | 06:19 |
| ajmitch | of course not | 06:19 |
| ajmitch | now I just have to find out where you live & maybe visit :) | 06:19 |
| jbailey | ajmitch: It's about 20 minutes from the UBZ site. | 06:20 |
| jbailey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes | 06:21 |
| jsgotangco | oh so you're in motreal | 06:21 |
| ajmitch | nice | 06:21 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: Yup | 06:21 |
| jbailey | ajmitch: Yeah, I'll be sleeping at home. =) | 06:21 |
| jsgotangco | ajmitch, we have an alternative place just in case | 06:21 |
| ajmitch | jsgotangco: great, I'm still holding out for sponsorship, which closes in a couple of days | 06:22 |
| ajmitch | so I might find out if I'm going in a few weeks | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | same here | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | *cross fingers* | 06:22 |
| LaserJock | Hi! I have a question about the docs projects. Do they coenside with the Ubuntu releases? | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, yes | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, but we'll have previews in later milestones for sure | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, http://doc.ubuntu.com has some previews at the moment | 06:23 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: Where are you? | 06:24 |
| LaserJock | How long does it take to do the docs? I mean, there seems to be a fair amount of fluidity in Breezy still. How do you handle changes even at the end? | 06:24 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, we have a freeze date, unfortunately, it doesn't work well with docs | 06:25 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey, Manila, Philippines | 06:25 |
| jbailey | Cool. | 06:25 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, we only know definite changes by Preview Freeze (although not always the case) | 06:25 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, unless the changes are sweeping, we edit docs as the build goes.. | 06:27 |
| jeffsch | jsgotangco: you called? | 06:28 |
| jsgotangco | jeffsch, yep if you're not busy | 06:28 |
| jeffsch | shoot | 06:28 |
| jsgotangco | jeffsch, i was trying to rip off your html/pdf script for edubuntu but no success i wanted to ask how big a work it would be to include edubuntu in our big make file | 06:29 |
| jsgotangco | and have results go to build | 06:29 |
| jsgotangco | and just the results to ogra | 06:29 |
| jeffsch | you want html and pdf, or just html? | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | we prefer both | 06:30 |
| jsgotangco | i know the pdf needs apache fop | 06:31 |
| jsgotangco | ill just grab a sandwhich brb | 06:31 |
| LaserJock | I don't suppose one of you wiki gurus could drop by http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists and see if the formatting is correct? I made quite a few changes and I was my first wiki edit | 06:33 |
| jbailey | Time for bed. See you later! | 06:35 |
| jeffsch | LaserJock: if it looks good to you, then the formatting is correct | 06:36 |
| LaserJock | lol, OK | 06:36 |
| jeffsch | :) | 06:36 |
| LaserJock | well, there were a bunch of links to wiki pages that didn't exist and so I removed those. I was hoping that they weren't there for a reason | 06:40 |
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| jeffsch | jsgotangco: are you there? | 07:52 |
| jsgotangco | hi | 07:55 |
| jsgotangco | jeffsch, sorry i was just trying to do something on the other laptop | 07:56 |
| jeffsch | np | 07:56 |
| jsgotangco | whats up | 07:56 |
| jeffsch | i took a look at edubuntu files | 07:57 |
| jeffsch | i don't think it's a good idea to add edubuntu to our big makefile | 07:57 |
| jeffsch | edubuntu should have its own | 07:57 |
| jsgotangco | oh i don't mind really, i just couldn't make it work (add images for example) | 07:58 |
| jsgotangco | i will take a look again at the big makefile and see how it works | 07:58 |
| jeffsch | getting the images into a pdf is a bit more work than getting them into html | 07:59 |
| jsgotangco | would the html be easier? the pdf can be done afterwards | 08:00 |
| jeffsch | iirc, it's not just the makefile: you need a custom xslt also | 08:00 |
| jsgotangco | i see | 08:00 |
| jeffsch | html would be easier, for sure | 08:00 |
| jeffsch | when do you need it by? | 08:00 |
| jsgotangco | we're not really contrained by the date, ogra has no freeze for edubuntu | 08:01 |
| jeffsch | ok. i try to come up with something by the end of next weekend | 08:02 |
| jsgotangco | gee thanks jeff i appreciate that | 08:03 |
| jsgotangco | im just stumped on how the images are not included at all | 08:03 |
| jeffsch | say, do you know why the language is 'C' instead of 'en'? | 08:04 |
| jsgotangco | its the gnome convention right? | 08:05 |
| jeffsch | yeah, as far as i know | 08:05 |
| jeffsch | but i don't know why they do it | 08:05 |
| jsgotangco | that's the only thing i know | 08:05 |
| jsgotangco | en is much better i guess | 08:06 |
| jeffsch | i think the only reason we use C is because gnome does | 08:06 |
| jeffsch | we even seem to use C on the kde docs | 08:06 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm lemme switch first | 08:08 |
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| Madpilot | hi robitaille | 08:19 |
| robitaille | hello Madpilot | 08:20 |
| Madpilot | remind me where the Breezy timetable wiki page is? can't find it right now... | 08:21 |
| robitaille | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule | 08:22 |
| Madpilot | thanks. Trying not to get the flu here, neurons not firing like they should be... | 08:23 |
| Burgundavia | ok, random cool thing | 08:23 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=5142 | 08:23 |
| Madpilot | that is very cool. I want a monitor that I can just thumbtack to the wall & use! | 08:25 |
| Madpilot | OK, that's wierd. O'Reilly publish *two* different books, both titled "Linux Cookbook"... | 08:44 |
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| rob^ | anyone around? | 09:52 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 09:52 |
| jsgotangco | hi | 09:53 |
| jsgotangco | seems someone is messing up the wiki again | 09:53 |
| rob^ | whats elmos email address, I need to get this access to svn fixed up | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | oh? | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | I haven't editing much in about a month | 09:53 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, LooksLikeThis | 09:53 |
| jsgotangco | HomepageTemplate | 09:53 |
| Burgundavia | rob^, just ping him | 09:54 |
| jsgotangco | must be some newbie mistake | 09:54 |
| rob^ | hes asleep and I can never catch him on here | 09:54 |
| rob^ | [elmo] is away (schleep) | 09:54 |
| rob^ | :) | 09:54 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 09:54 |
| rob^ | ah crap, I gtg to work.. | 09:55 |
| jsgotangco | rob^, night shift? | 09:55 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, just caught sabdfl asking for UI changes | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, I asked them to CC the doc list | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | sabdfl seb128: can we please move the Terminal and File Browser to Accessories, rather than System Tools? | 09:56 |
| Burgundavia | seb128 sabdfl: sure, I'll do that this morning | 09:56 |
| rob^ | jsgotangco, yep, 12 hour one | 09:57 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, he doesn't have a choice heh | 09:58 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, no, but we have a UI freeze for a reason | 09:58 |
| Burgundavia | because sabdfl pulled the same shit last release | 09:59 |
| jsgotangco | tell that to the sabdfl | 09:59 |
| rob^ | heh | 09:59 |
| === Burgundavia is getting angry | ||
| jsgotangco | he's not called sabdfl for nothing | 09:59 |
| rob^ | yep | 09:59 |
| jsgotangco | even his nick means something | 09:59 |
| Burgundavia | Burgundavia seb128, sabdfl when you ask for UI changes after UI freeze date please CC the doc list so that we can adjust docs as needed | 09:59 |
| rob^ | ok, I'm going to work.. have fun. | 10:00 |
| jsgotangco | Burgundavia, its just 2 icons no big deal | 10:00 |
| robitaille | Burgundavia, what's the story about UI changes? | 10:00 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, until the user goes looking for the terminal | 10:00 |
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| Burgundavia | robitaille, sabdfl seb128: can we please move the Terminal and File Browser to Accessories, rather than System Tools? | 10:00 |
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| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, if I hadn't happen to see it, there would be no way to know what happens | 10:01 |
| jsgotangco | sure | 10:01 |
| Burgundavia | what if this happens after our string freeze | 10:01 |
| jsgotangco | we'll all see it | 10:01 |
| Burgundavia | then we are screwed | 10:01 |
| jsgotangco | on 2 icons? | 10:01 |
| === jsgotangco thinks not | ||
| Burgundavia | umm, applications are moving menus | 10:02 |
| jsgotangco | have you noticed how books always do not seem to reflect the actual stuff especially on technical references | 10:02 |
| Burgundavia | that means if we reference them (which we do), then we have to make the necessary changes | 10:02 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco, that is because they don't release with the product, we do | 10:02 |
| jsgotangco | its not like people are going to be completely lost with some small UI changes | 10:03 |
| Burgundavia | yes they are | 10:03 |
| robitaille | terminal has always been in system tools in gnome for as long as remember it. It has always annoyed me :) | 10:03 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 10:03 |
| Burgundavia | I am not talking about the specific change, I am talking about the break in UI freeze and how it affects us | 10:04 |
| Burgundavia | and that we need to stand up and shout about it | 10:04 |
| === Burgundavia goes back to writing installing-applications.xml | ||
| jsgotangco | :P | 10:08 |
| jsgotangco | i got the smackdown so i'll just say yes | 10:08 |
| robitaille | actually I wonder if more terminal users will be annoyed with Breezy since the right-click menu doesn't have terminal anymore | 10:09 |
| Burgundavia | and no run-applications | 10:09 |
| Burgundavia | these are all good things in the long term, but are going to feel back for the traditional linux market | 10:10 |
| Burgundavia | s/back/bad | 10:10 |
| robitaille | by the way, why is firefox not displaying an html-formatted page when clicking on https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/gnome/quicktour/quicktour.html | 10:11 |
| Burgundavia | no idea | 10:11 |
| robitaille | some mime issue on the html server side | 10:11 |
| robitaille | ? | 10:12 |
| Burgundavia | probably because the most likely thing people want to do is view the code, not the formatted stuff | 10:12 |
| jsgotangco | hmm we have a problem on this | 10:12 |
| jsgotangco | doc.ubuntu.com can do this for us | 10:12 |
| robitaille | except when you tell people to look at the page for comment. Then it is annoying | 10:12 |
| jsgotangco | but only mdke and hno73 has access | 10:12 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 10:12 |
| Burgundavia | neither of which are currently very active | 10:13 |
| jsgotangco | hno73 is just an email away | 10:13 |
| jsgotangco | he just finished art.ubuntu.com | 10:13 |
| Burgundavia | ya | 10:13 |
| robitaille | Burgundavia, in that quick tour, I would drop some of the Gaim protocols "Gadu-Gadu, Groupwise and Napster" and replace by others; 99% of people have never heard of the last 3, and Napster has a certain negative conotation with some people | 10:14 |
| Burgundavia | robitaille, I just copied it from somebody else | 10:14 |
| Burgundavia | I can do that | 10:14 |
| Burgundavia | robitaille, don't you have svn access? | 10:15 |
| robitaille | yes I do. | 10:15 |
| Burgundavia | then hack away | 10:15 |
| Burgundavia | I am not working on the quicktour at the moment | 10:16 |
| robitaille | been busy ....and it's getting late. It's just something I noticed earlier today | 10:16 |
| Burgundavia | Gadu-gadu is basically the only thing the polish use, from what I understand | 10:16 |
| robitaille | didn't know that | 10:16 |
| Burgundavia | if people don't understand it, they are likely to simply ignore it | 10:17 |
| Burgundavia | but I will drop napster | 10:17 |
| Burgundavia | groupwise is useful for pointy-haired types | 10:17 |
| robitaille | pointy-haired types would probably banned gaim in the workplace :) | 10:18 |
| Burgundavia | right | 10:18 |
| robitaille | going to bed... | 10:18 |
| Burgundavia | in any case, committed, thanks for the catch | 10:19 |
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| Burgundavia | rob^, I am about half done the install-applications rework | 10:58 |
| Burgundavia | rob^, need to sleep now, will not get to it for another 24 hours, so feel free to jump in | 10:58 |
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | This channel tries to follow the tradition of the #gnome-love channel on irc.gimp.net, all new comers and questions are welcomed, as long as you follow the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct first. | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by mdke at Mon Jun 20 20:43:03 2005 | ||
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| Diziet | Hello. I have a problem with ubuntu-doc and ubunut-quickguide which seems to be related to rearrangements/renamings. | 03:02 |
| jbailey | Diziet: I'm probably still the right person to ask for now. The folks in this channel all seem to live around .au's timezone. | 03:02 |
| jbailey | Diziet: ubuntu-quickguide doesn't exist anymore, it's not one of the documents being produced for breezy. | 03:02 |
| Diziet | So it's just gone and the package should go ? | 03:09 |
| Diziet | But the sources are still in ubuntu-docs ? | 03:10 |
| Diziet | Because if you upgrade from hoary, it gets left on your system but it's broken. | 03:10 |
| jbailey | Right. Should I conflict against it? | 03:11 |
| jbailey | The source isn't supposed to still be in there. I forgot to pluck it out at 2am or whenever it was that I uploaded it./ | 03:11 |
| Diziet | Well, is it actually wrong for breezy ? | 03:12 |
| Diziet | I mean, the content. | 03:12 |
| jbailey | No idea. I haven't reviewed the content. I reconfirmed last night that thte document isn't intended for Breezy, though. | 03:13 |
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| mdke | hi all | 03:13 |
| jbailey | I'm helping them with technical bits atm, not actually doing the docs. | 03:13 |
| jbailey | I could conflict against it, I guess. | 03:14 |
| Diziet | That seems wrong somehow. The real incompatibility is with the lack of some other file. Um, which I suppose might be in ubuntu-docs. Let me check ... | 03:16 |
| mdke | how is the packaging going? | 03:17 |
| Diziet | The missing file is xincludes.mod which is in the source for 5.10-1 but doesn't seem to be in the .deb. Without it, ubuntu-quickguide from hoary generates bunches of errors from scrollkeeper. | 03:19 |
| Diziet | In the source for ubunut-docs 5.10. | 03:19 |
| Diziet | I mean. I don't know which binary it was in in hoary. | 03:19 |
| jjesse | i thought the quickguide wasn't in breezy | 03:20 |
| mdke | it shouldn't be | 03:20 |
| Diziet | It isn't. But if you install hoary and then upgrade to breezy, nothing removes it. | 03:20 |
| mdke | i guess that should be easy to resolve right? | 03:20 |
| Diziet | I'm just trying to figure out which package ought to have the conflict. | 03:20 |
| mdke | ubuntu-docs i would say | 03:20 |
| mdke | the new quickguide (quicktour) should be in there | 03:21 |
| mdke | although i have been out of the loop for several days so i don't really know | 03:21 |
| Diziet | Oh, quicktour is the replacement for quickguide ? | 03:21 |
| mdke | yes | 03:22 |
| Diziet | Right. Yes, then new ubuntu-doc should conflict with (old) ubuntu-quickguide. | 03:23 |
| Diziet | Also, I see that xinclude.mod was in the old ubuntu-doc .deb. | 03:23 |
| jbailey | What's xinclude.mod ? | 03:23 |
| Diziet | So, will one of you lot :-) add that conflict, or shall I ? | 03:23 |
| jbailey | Diziet: I don't think it's preview critical. I will do it after the preview release. | 03:24 |
| mdke | maybe because in the old deb we used xml whereas for the new docs it should be html | 03:24 |
| Diziet | It's a file which includes files full of definitions of stuff. | 03:24 |
| Diziet | jbailey: Yes, you're probably right. It only causes error messages to the install's stderr, but nothing actually bombs out. | 03:24 |
| Diziet | Yes, it's an XML thing. | 03:24 |
| jbailey | Diziet: For the installer? How so? | 03:25 |
| Diziet | jbailey: Do you want me to file a bug ? | 03:25 |
| Diziet | WDYM `For the installer?' ? | 03:25 |
| jbailey | Diziet: I don't understand why the installer would spit out messages. mdz dropped ubuntu-quickguide from the ubuntu-minimal package. | 03:27 |
| Diziet | If you upgrade from hoary. I keep saying `if you upgrade from hoary' ... | 03:29 |
| Diziet | So, do you want me to file a bugzilla bug to remind you to add the conflict or will you remember anyway ? :-) | 03:35 |
| mdke | doesn't hurt to file one IMO | 03:35 |
| jbailey | Diziet: How do you use the installer to upgrade from Hoary. Does it do that? | 03:36 |
| mdke | gtg | 03:40 |
| Diziet | jbailey: I used apt-get dist-upgrade in an ssh session. | 03:41 |
| Diziet | Not the installer. | 03:41 |
| Diziet | After that, any invocation of scrollkeeper-rebuilddb produces huge amounts of guff. | 03:43 |
| Diziet | Are you saying that the installer would remove the obsolete package ? | 03:43 |
| jbailey | I'm not saying anything. I was just curious why you said the installer was giving you messages on stderr. But I see that it's to the "install's" stderr. | 03:47 |
| jbailey | So I misread, my bad. =) | 03:47 |
| Diziet | Right. NP. So did you want a bugzilla bug or not ? | 03:56 |
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| jbailey | Diziet: Please. | 04:43 |
| jbailey | I use that as my work list. Please assign it explicitly to jbailey@ubuntu.com | 04:44 |
| Diziet | I've already done that. You should have it by now :-). | 04:47 |
| jbailey | Thanks, I'll take a look. | 04:47 |
| Diziet | 14816 | 04:47 |
| jbailey | I disabled it so that it doesn't send me email when it's assigned to me. =) | 04:47 |
| jbailey | That way I see when someone has cc:'d me and such, but otherwsie I use my presaved queries as work lists. | 04:47 |
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