[01:48] <rob^> couple of patches sent to the list, bbl
[02:20] <Burgundavia> rob^, applied
[04:29] <mpt> Ugh ... yelp is very much slower under breezy
[04:35] <jsgotangco> jbailey, ping?
[05:47] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Hey!
[05:47] <jbailey> I'm back now. =)
[05:49] <Madpilot> dog, there's a bumper crop of idiots over on #ubuntu tonight...
[05:50] <Madpilot> just had to vent, be back later...
[05:58] <jsgotangco> jbailey, i guess you already know the ubuntu-quickguide breakage :)
[05:59] <jbailey> Yup, but that's not one of the docs you guys are doing for breezy, right?
[05:59] <jbailey> mdz dropped it from ubuntu-standard today.
[05:59] <jsgotangco> right 
[05:59] <jbailey> Cool, so that's all sorted out then.
[06:00] <jbailey> I'm going to resend the request to get write access to the ubuntu-docs repo, it hasn't come through yet.
[06:00] <jsgotangco> you emailed elmo?
[06:00] <jbailey> Yes.
[06:01] <jbailey> But they've just moved to a queue-based system, so I've resent it to that.
[06:01] <jsgotangco> nice
[06:01] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, ping?
[06:01] <jbailey> I will ask mdz tomorrow about updating documentation until the release date.  Is there anything else I need to handle while you guys are asleep? =)
[06:02] <jbailey> (It's midnight here. *g*)
[06:03] <jsgotangco> ahh
[06:03] <jsgotangco> hmm no just cleaning up some docs atm
[06:03] <jsgotangco> 2 days to go anyways
[06:04] <jsgotangco> hmm just one final question
[06:05] <jsgotangco> who's going to do the yelp/scrollkeeper work?
[06:05] <jbailey> I suspect I will be.
[06:05] <jbailey> I have main upload privs, so it makes sense, I think.
[06:06] <jsgotangco> ok would you be able to teach me or other guys here about this after the chaos? (as well as the packaging part)
[06:08] <jbailey> I shall do my best. =)  I'm still not sure who all the 'guys around here' are.
[06:09] <jsgotangco> oh the active ones are just a handful (me, Burgundavia, jeffsch, mgalvin, jjesse, mdke)
[06:09] <jsgotangco> mpt helps as well
[06:09] <jsgotangco> oh and rob^ 
[06:09] <jsgotangco> (sorry rob^ i fogot about you_
[06:11] <jsgotangco> im gonna grab lunch first brb =)
[06:12] <ajmitch> jbailey: I just recently started lurking
[06:12] <jbailey> ajmitch: Ah, the ever present Andrew. =)
[06:12] <ajmitch> of course ;)
[06:13] <ajmitch> I've had the misfortune of writing docs in the past
[06:13] <jbailey> I don't mind writing docs.  I'm even passably good at it.
[06:13] <jbailey> There's usually just so much to do otherwise, too.
[06:14] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:14] <ajmitch> MOTU work is surprisingly time-consuming
[06:14] <jsgotangco> hmm
[06:14] <jbailey> I imagine.
[06:14] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Oh, that remnds me...  Release notes.
[06:14] <jbailey> Is there a wiki page for it yet?
[06:14] <jbailey> If not, do you mind if I create one and announce it?
[06:15] <jsgotangco> jbailey, please do, the problem i have at the moment is i dont know where to start and what features, etc.
[06:17] <jbailey> I suspect the right thing to start with is to just get notes from the various uploaders  on things that they know already will be an issue when upgrading.
[06:17] <jsgotangco> hmm and known bugs perhaps?
[06:18] <jsgotangco> the draft 2.12 release notes have such
[06:18] <jbailey> 2.12?
[06:18] <jbailey> Oh, you mean gnome?
[06:18] <jbailey> Status of sending notification mails:
[06:18] <jsgotangco> yes the one being done by luis (i think its already finished)
[06:18] <jbailey> [en]  DanielHolbach, DanielRobitaille, AndrewMitchell: Mail sent OK
[06:18] <jbailey> ajmitch: Stalker.
[06:18] <ajmitch> jbailey: .* is great
[06:18] <jsgotangco> he's subscribed to all the wiki pages
[06:19] <jbailey> jsgotangco: This doesn't refute my statement in any way...
[06:19] <ajmitch> of course not
[06:19] <ajmitch> now I just have to find out where you live & maybe visit :)
[06:20] <jbailey> ajmitch: It's about 20 minutes from the UBZ site.
[06:21] <jbailey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[06:21] <jsgotangco> oh so you're in motreal
[06:21] <ajmitch> nice
[06:21] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Yup
[06:21] <jbailey> ajmitch: Yeah, I'll be sleeping at home. =)
[06:21] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, we have an alternative place just in case
[06:22] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: great, I'm still holding out for sponsorship, which closes in a couple of days
[06:22] <ajmitch> so I might find out if I'm going in a few weeks
[06:22] <jsgotangco> same here
[06:22] <jsgotangco> *cross fingers*
[06:22] <LaserJock> Hi! I have a question about the docs projects. Do they coenside with the Ubuntu releases?
[06:22] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, yes
[06:22] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, but we'll have previews in later milestones for sure
[06:23] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, http://doc.ubuntu.com has some previews at the moment
[06:24] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Where are you?
[06:24] <LaserJock> How long does it take to do the docs? I mean, there seems to be a fair amount of fluidity in Breezy still. How do you handle changes even at the end?
[06:25] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, we have a freeze date, unfortunately, it doesn't work well with docs
[06:25] <jsgotangco> jbailey, Manila, Philippines
[06:25] <jbailey> Cool.
[06:25] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, we only know definite changes by Preview Freeze (although not always the case)
[06:27] <jsgotangco> LaserJock, unless the changes are sweeping, we edit docs as the build goes..
[06:28] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: you called?
[06:28] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, yep if you're not busy
[06:28] <jeffsch> shoot
[06:29] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, i was trying to rip off your html/pdf script for edubuntu but no success i wanted to ask how big a work it would be to include edubuntu in our big make file
[06:29] <jsgotangco> and have results go to build
[06:29] <jsgotangco> and just the results to ogra
[06:30] <jeffsch> you want html and pdf, or just html?
[06:30] <jsgotangco> we prefer both
[06:31] <jsgotangco> i know the pdf needs apache fop
[06:31] <jsgotangco> ill just grab a sandwhich brb
[06:33] <LaserJock> I don't suppose one of you wiki gurus could drop by http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists and see if the formatting is correct? I made quite a few changes and I was my first wiki edit
[06:35] <jbailey> Time for bed.  See you later!
[06:36] <jeffsch> LaserJock: if it looks good to you, then the formatting is correct
[06:36] <LaserJock> lol, OK
[06:36] <jeffsch> :)
[06:40] <LaserJock> well, there were a bunch of links to wiki pages that didn't exist and so I removed those. I was hoping that they weren't there for a reason
[07:52] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: are you there?
[07:55] <jsgotangco> hi
[07:56] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, sorry i was just trying to do something on the other laptop
[07:56] <jeffsch> np
[07:56] <jsgotangco> whats up
[07:57] <jeffsch> i took a look at edubuntu files
[07:57] <jeffsch> i don't think it's a good idea to add edubuntu to our big makefile
[07:57] <jeffsch> edubuntu should have its own
[07:58] <jsgotangco> oh i don't mind really, i just couldn't make it work (add images for example)
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i will take a look again at the big makefile and see how it works
[07:59] <jeffsch> getting the images into a pdf is a bit more work than getting them into html
[08:00] <jsgotangco> would the html be easier? the pdf can be done afterwards
[08:00] <jeffsch> iirc, it's not just the makefile: you need a custom xslt also
[08:00] <jsgotangco> i see
[08:00] <jeffsch> html would be easier, for sure
[08:00] <jeffsch> when do you need it by?
[08:01] <jsgotangco> we're not really contrained by the date, ogra has no freeze for edubuntu
[08:02] <jeffsch> ok. i try to come up with something by the end of next weekend
[08:03] <jsgotangco> gee thanks jeff i appreciate that
[08:03] <jsgotangco> im just stumped on how the images are not included at all
[08:04] <jeffsch> say, do you know why the language is 'C' instead of 'en'?
[08:05] <jsgotangco> its the gnome convention right?
[08:05] <jeffsch> yeah, as far as i know
[08:05] <jeffsch> but i don't know why they do it
[08:05] <jsgotangco> that's the only thing i know
[08:06] <jsgotangco> en is much better i guess
[08:06] <jeffsch> i think the only reason we use C is because gnome does
[08:06] <jeffsch> we even seem to use C on the kde docs
[08:08] <jsgotangco> hmmm lemme switch first
[08:19] <Madpilot> hi robitaille
[08:20] <robitaille> hello Madpilot 
[08:21] <Madpilot> remind me where the Breezy timetable wiki page is? can't find it right now...
[08:22] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[08:23] <Madpilot> thanks. Trying not to get the flu here, neurons not firing like they should be...
[08:23] <Burgundavia> ok, random cool thing
[08:23] <Burgundavia> http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=5142
[08:25] <Madpilot> that is very cool. I want a monitor that I can just thumbtack to the wall & use!
[08:44] <Madpilot> OK, that's wierd. O'Reilly publish *two* different books, both titled "Linux Cookbook"... 
[09:52] <rob^> anyone around?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:53] <jsgotangco> hi
[09:53] <jsgotangco> seems someone is messing up the wiki again
[09:53] <rob^> whats elmos email address, I need to get this access to svn fixed up
[09:53] <Burgundavia> oh?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> I haven't editing much in about a month
[09:53] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, LooksLikeThis
[09:53] <jsgotangco> HomepageTemplate
[09:54] <Burgundavia> rob^, just ping him
[09:54] <jsgotangco> must be some newbie mistake
[09:54] <rob^> hes asleep and I can never catch him on here
[09:54] <rob^>  [elmo]  is away (schleep)
[09:54] <rob^> :)
[09:54] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:55] <rob^> ah crap, I gtg to work..
[09:55] <jsgotangco> rob^, night shift?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, just caught sabdfl asking for UI changes
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I asked them to CC the doc list
[09:56] <Burgundavia> sabdfl seb128: can we please move the Terminal and File Browser to Accessories, rather than System Tools?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> seb128 sabdfl: sure, I'll do that this morning
[09:57] <rob^> jsgotangco, yep, 12 hour one
[09:58] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, he doesn't have a choice heh
[09:58] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no, but we have a UI freeze for a reason
[09:59] <Burgundavia> because sabdfl pulled the same shit last release
[09:59] <jsgotangco> tell that to the sabdfl
[09:59] <rob^> heh
[09:59] <jsgotangco> he's not called sabdfl for nothing
[09:59] <rob^> yep
[09:59] <jsgotangco> even his nick means something
[09:59] <Burgundavia> Burgundavia seb128, sabdfl when you ask for UI changes after UI freeze date please CC the doc list so that we can adjust docs as needed
[10:00] <rob^> ok, I'm going to work.. have fun.
[10:00] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, its just 2 icons no big deal
[10:00] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  what's the story about UI changes?
[10:00] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, until the user goes looking for the terminal
[10:00] <Burgundavia> robitaille, sabdfl seb128: can we please move the Terminal and File Browser to Accessories, rather than System Tools?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, if I hadn't happen to see it, there would be no way to know what happens
[10:01] <jsgotangco> sure
[10:01] <Burgundavia> what if this happens after our string freeze
[10:01] <jsgotangco> we'll all see it
[10:01] <Burgundavia> then we are screwed
[10:01] <jsgotangco> on 2 icons?
[10:02] <Burgundavia> umm, applications are moving menus
[10:02] <jsgotangco> have you noticed how books always do not seem to reflect the actual stuff especially on technical references
[10:02] <Burgundavia> that means if we reference them (which we do), then we have to make the necessary changes
[10:02] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that is because they don't release with the product, we do
[10:03] <jsgotangco> its not like people are going to be completely lost with some small UI changes
[10:03] <Burgundavia> yes they are
[10:03] <robitaille> terminal has always been in system tools in gnome for as long as remember it.  It has always annoyed me :)
[10:03] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:04] <Burgundavia> I am not talking about the specific change, I am talking about the break in UI freeze and how it affects us
[10:04] <Burgundavia> and that we need to stand up and shout about it
[10:08] <jsgotangco> :P
[10:08] <jsgotangco> i got the smackdown so i'll just say yes
[10:09] <robitaille> actually I wonder if more terminal users will be annoyed with Breezy since the right-click menu doesn't have terminal  anymore
[10:09] <Burgundavia> and no run-applications
[10:10] <Burgundavia> these are all good things in the long term, but are going to feel back for the traditional linux market
[10:10] <Burgundavia> s/back/bad
[10:11] <robitaille> by the way, why is firefox not displaying an html-formatted page when clicking on https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/gnome/quicktour/quicktour.html
[10:11] <Burgundavia> no idea
[10:11] <robitaille> some mime issue on the html server side
[10:12] <robitaille> ?
[10:12] <Burgundavia> probably because the most likely thing people want to do is view the code, not the formatted stuff
[10:12] <jsgotangco> hmm we have a problem on this
[10:12] <jsgotangco> doc.ubuntu.com can do this for us
[10:12] <robitaille> except when you tell people to look at the page for comment.  Then it is annoying
[10:12] <jsgotangco> but only mdke and hno73 has access
[10:12] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:13] <Burgundavia> neither of which are currently very active
[10:13] <jsgotangco> hno73 is just an email away
[10:13] <jsgotangco> he just finished art.ubuntu.com
[10:13] <Burgundavia> ya
[10:14] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  in that quick tour, I would drop some of the Gaim protocols "Gadu-Gadu, Groupwise and Napster" and replace by others;  99% of people have never heard of the last 3, and Napster has a certain negative conotation with some people
[10:14] <Burgundavia> robitaille, I just copied it from somebody else
[10:14] <Burgundavia> I can do that
[10:15] <Burgundavia> robitaille, don't you have svn access?
[10:15] <robitaille> yes I do.
[10:15] <Burgundavia> then hack away
[10:16] <Burgundavia> I am not working on the quicktour at the moment
[10:16] <robitaille> been busy ....and it's getting late.   It's just something I noticed earlier today
[10:16] <Burgundavia> Gadu-gadu is basically the only thing the polish use, from what I understand
[10:16] <robitaille> didn't know that
[10:17] <Burgundavia> if people don't understand it, they are likely to simply ignore it
[10:17] <Burgundavia> but I will drop napster
[10:17] <Burgundavia> groupwise is useful for pointy-haired types
[10:18] <robitaille> pointy-haired types would probably banned gaim in the workplace :)
[10:18] <Burgundavia> right
[10:18] <robitaille> going to bed...
[10:19] <Burgundavia> in any case, committed, thanks for the catch
[10:58] <Burgundavia> rob^, I am about half done the install-applications rework
[10:58] <Burgundavia> rob^, need to sleep now, will not get to it for another 24 hours, so feel free to jump in
[03:02] <Diziet> Hello.  I have a problem with ubuntu-doc and ubunut-quickguide which seems to be related to rearrangements/renamings.
[03:02] <jbailey> Diziet: I'm probably still the right person to ask for now.  The folks in this channel all seem to live around .au's timezone.
[03:02] <jbailey> Diziet: ubuntu-quickguide doesn't exist anymore, it's not one of the documents being produced for breezy.
[03:09] <Diziet> So it's just gone and the package should go ?
[03:10] <Diziet> But the sources are still in ubuntu-docs ?
[03:10] <Diziet> Because if you upgrade from hoary, it gets left on your system but it's broken.
[03:11] <jbailey> Right.  Should I conflict against it?
[03:11] <jbailey> The source isn't supposed to still be in there.  I forgot to pluck it out at 2am or whenever it was that I uploaded it./
[03:12] <Diziet> Well, is it actually wrong for breezy ?
[03:12] <Diziet> I mean, the content.
[03:13] <jbailey> No idea.  I haven't reviewed the content.  I reconfirmed last night that thte document isn't intended for Breezy, though.
[03:13] <mdke> hi all
[03:13] <jbailey> I'm helping them with technical bits atm, not actually  doing the docs.
[03:14] <jbailey> I could conflict against it, I guess.
[03:16] <Diziet> That seems wrong somehow.  The real incompatibility is with the lack of some other file.  Um, which I suppose might be in ubuntu-docs.  Let me check ...
[03:17] <mdke> how is the packaging going?
[03:19] <Diziet> The missing file is xincludes.mod which is in the source for 5.10-1 but doesn't seem to be in the .deb.  Without it, ubuntu-quickguide from hoary generates bunches of errors from scrollkeeper.
[03:19] <Diziet> In the source for ubunut-docs 5.10.
[03:19] <Diziet> I mean.  I don't know which binary it was in in hoary.
[03:20] <jjesse> i thought the quickguide wasn't in breezy
[03:20] <mdke> it shouldn't be
[03:20] <Diziet> It isn't.  But if you install hoary and then upgrade to breezy, nothing removes it.
[03:20] <mdke> i guess that should be easy to resolve right?
[03:20] <Diziet> I'm just trying to figure out which package ought to have the conflict.
[03:20] <mdke> ubuntu-docs i would say
[03:21] <mdke> the new quickguide (quicktour) should be in there
[03:21] <mdke> although i have been out of the loop for several days so i don't really know
[03:21] <Diziet> Oh, quicktour is the replacement for quickguide ?
[03:22] <mdke> yes
[03:23] <Diziet> Right.  Yes, then new ubuntu-doc should conflict with (old) ubuntu-quickguide.
[03:23] <Diziet> Also, I see that xinclude.mod was in the old ubuntu-doc .deb.
[03:23] <jbailey> What's xinclude.mod ?
[03:23] <Diziet> So, will one of you lot :-) add that conflict, or shall I ?
[03:24] <jbailey> Diziet: I don't think it's preview critical.  I will do it after the preview release.
[03:24] <mdke> maybe because in the old deb we used xml whereas for the new docs it should be html
[03:24] <Diziet> It's a file which includes files full of definitions of stuff.
[03:24] <Diziet> jbailey: Yes, you're probably right.  It only causes error messages to the install's stderr, but nothing actually bombs out.
[03:24] <Diziet> Yes, it's an XML thing.
[03:25] <jbailey> Diziet: For the installer?  How so?
[03:25] <Diziet> jbailey: Do you want me to file a bug ?
[03:25] <Diziet> WDYM `For the installer?' ?
[03:27] <jbailey> Diziet: I don't understand why the installer would spit out messages.  mdz dropped ubuntu-quickguide from the ubuntu-minimal package.
[03:29] <Diziet> If you upgrade from hoary.  I keep saying `if you upgrade from hoary' ...
[03:35] <Diziet> So, do you want me to file a bugzilla bug to remind you to add the conflict or will you remember anyway ? :-)
[03:35] <mdke> doesn't hurt to file one IMO
[03:36] <jbailey> Diziet: How do you use the installer to upgrade from Hoary.  Does it do that?
[03:40] <mdke> gtg
[03:41] <Diziet> jbailey: I used apt-get dist-upgrade in an ssh session.
[03:41] <Diziet> Not the installer. 
[03:43] <Diziet> After that, any invocation of scrollkeeper-rebuilddb produces huge amounts of guff.
[03:43] <Diziet> Are you saying that the installer would remove the obsolete package ?
[03:47] <jbailey> I'm not saying anything.  I was just curious why you said the installer was giving you messages on stderr.  But I see that it's to the "install's" stderr.
[03:47] <jbailey> So I misread, my bad. =)
[03:56] <Diziet> Right.  NP.  So did you want a bugzilla bug or not ?
[04:43] <jbailey> Diziet: Please.
[04:44] <jbailey> I use that as my work list.  Please assign it explicitly to jbailey@ubuntu.com
[04:47] <Diziet> I've already done that.  You should have it by now :-).
[04:47] <jbailey> Thanks, I'll take a look.
[04:47] <Diziet> 14816
[04:47] <jbailey> I disabled it so that it doesn't send me email when it's assigned to me. =)
[04:47] <jbailey> That way I see when someone has cc:'d me and such, but otherwsie I use my presaved queries as work lists.