[12:10] <elmo> robitaille: err?
[12:11] <jbailey> elmo: Can you pls. sync bzr from Debian unstable?
[12:12] <elmo> [BLACKLISTED - LOOP BACK]  Daniel Robitaille: <robitaille@ubuntu.com> --> robitaille@ubuntu.com. [276] 
[12:12] <elmo> robitaille: ^--
[12:14] <dmk> good night all
[12:15] <robitaille> elmo,  I switched my prefered LP to my ubuntu address.... I guess your cron job didn't like it.  I'll switch it back to something else
[12:17] <elmo> robitaille: well, it's a forwarding service - it'll forward it to whatever your prefered email is?
[12:17] <elmo> robitaille: or did you not want an ubuntu.com email?
[12:18] <siretart> elmo: btw, do members get automatically @ubuntu.com emails or is there manual interaction involved?
[12:18] <elmo> siretart: it's an automated cron job
[12:18] <elmo> well, that's not quite true
[12:18] <elmo> semi-automated
[12:19] <siretart> running how ofen?
[12:19] <siretart> ah.. I see
[12:19] <elmo> not sure yet, probably hourly or so
[12:19] <robitaille> elmo I wanted people to see my ubuntu address only when looking at my LP page;  I have switched LP back to another address
[12:19] <robitaille> so hopefully my @ubuntu address will come back in a hour
[12:21] <elmo> robitaille: ah, hmm
[12:22] <elmo> FWIW, there's a spec to not let you do that, although I can see why you'd want to
[12:23] <ogra> mvo, hey, also on isdn ? 
[12:23] <Nafallo> hmm, we should be able to mark which addresses should be shown.
[12:23] <Nafallo> and the ubuntu.com one could popup when you are a member :-)
[12:24] <mvo> ogra: i hate my regular network
[12:24] <black_> hello peope
[12:24] <black_> people
[12:24] <mvo> (and it hates me too apparently)
[12:24] <ogra> mvo, me too
[12:24] <black_> someone speak spanish?
[12:25] <black_> y need an X file explorer to install in my ubuntu hoary
[12:25] <ogra> mvo, poke \sh to poke the ISP guys :)
[12:25] <black_> which you recomend?
[12:25] <\sh> I just read it
[12:25] <HrdwrBoB> black_: #ubuntu-es
[12:25] <\sh> but I'm on holiday ,-)
[12:25] <HrdwrBoB> or #ubuntu
[12:25] <Nafallo> black_: #ubuntu probably :-)
[12:25] <HrdwrBoB> this isn't a support channel
[12:25] <black_> ok
[12:25] <black_> sorry
[12:25] <black_> you are rigth
[12:26] <mvo> ogra: it looks like it's my router ... I'm too tired to look into it right now
[12:26] <elmo> jbailey: done
[12:26] <ogra> mvo, for me the DSLAM in the headend died again it seems... 
[12:26] <jbailey> elmo: Thanks.
[12:27] <mvo> ogra: again? didn't it died last week?
[12:27] <ogra> mvo, apparently its still not fixed completely... the line drops once every two days for some hours...
[12:30] <\sh> good night gentlemen :)
[12:30] <mvo> \sh_away: good night
[12:30] <ogra> night \sh 
[12:35] <mdz>  *    GDMflexiserver - run a flexible server
[12:35] <mdz>  *    (c)2001 Queen of England
[12:35] <mdz> I didn't know her majesty had contributed to gdm
[12:37] <ogra> lol
[12:37] <Lathiat> haha
[12:38] <Keybuk> the gdm author is nuts
[12:38] <Keybuk> I figured he was 12 from his changelog entries
[12:38] <Keybuk> but he's actually a 50yo college professor or something
[12:38] <carlos> mvo, pong
[12:40] <mvo> carlos: I wanted to ask about the synaptic pot-file changes (only one per directoty), but that can wait until tomorrow
[12:40] <carlos> mvo, ok
[12:41] <robitaille> mdz,  maybe gdm was partly written by someone working for the english government?  At work, whatever I code for the Canadian government is also copyright by the crown, i.e, the queen of england
[12:45] <robtaylor> mm. i get bus errors in gtk today, is that known about?
[12:48] <jdub> Keybuk: george is our age (but no longer maintains gdm)
[12:48] <jdub> Keybuk: he's also a crazy czech
[12:48] <jdub> deeply, deeply crazy
[12:58] <mdz> Kamion: weird, just switching to vt1 and back before shutdown makes everything work for me
[12:58] <mdz> BenC: around?
[12:59] <mdz> BenC: I need a kernel perspective on this vt switching issue on the live CD
[01:26] <lamont__> and I bet the answer is "no"
[01:40] <mdz> Kamion: what is happening in my case is that it is ending up on vt2 rather than vt1
[01:41] <mdz> I sort of suspect a race between X and gdm both trying to go back to the old vt
[01:41] <mdz> gdm tries to switch to vt1 and succeeds, but I am on vt2 when the smoke clears
[01:42] <mdz> vt2 is the console used for the boot process because vt1 is mangled by bterm
[01:42] <mdz> switching to vt1 before starting X would be a workaround
[01:46] <mdz> I think X might need the same treatment I gave usplash, to avoid going back to the old vt if it's been changed by the user since starting
[01:54] <jdub> ha ha
[01:55] <jdub> someone's got their RT replying to ubuntu-users
[02:26] <ogra> yay, no overflowed edubuntu CDs anymore and a empty report :)
[02:27] <bddebian> ogra: Nice
[02:28] <ogra> yup
[02:36] <bddebian> elmo: you around?
[02:36] <elmo> kind of
[02:37] <bddebian> Do you know if you have my key already or do I need to mail keyring?
[02:39] <elmo> mail to keyring
[02:39] <bddebian> OK, thx
[02:40] <bddebian> Done
[02:40] <desrt> it's comical how non-functional freenode is
[02:41] <bddebian> desrt: ?
[02:41] <desrt> it's blocking me from sending private /msg's
[02:41] <ogra> desrt, register
[02:41] <bddebian> Is your nick registered?
[02:41] <desrt> because privmgs spam has become a problem
[02:41] <desrt> no.  it's not.
[02:41] <Lathiat> you ened to register with nickserv
[02:41] <Lathiat> and you can set unfiltered on to receive messages from non-registered users
[02:42] <Lathiat> desrt: and to be honest, every network has the same problem, its a shame its apparently gotten so bad they had to go this far
[02:42] <Lathiat> bags nto running a 25,000 user network
[02:42] <desrt> you just can't /ignore that guy
[02:43] <bddebian> hehe
[02:43] <desrt> the ignore is good for like 2 and a half minutes until he comes up with a new standard hostmask format
[02:43] <Lathiat> his hostmask is pretty constant, ti did change recently
[02:44] <Lathiat> anyway off to uni i go
[02:44] <desrt> Lathiat; cheers
[02:46] <bddebian> Damnit, now why doesn't tagcoll show up in the archive?
[02:48] <bddebian> Sources shows 1.3-1 and the buildlogs are OK but the binaries are still 0.99 ??
[02:48] <Lathiat> bddebian: how long since it built? takes a bit of time for things to go through you know
[02:50] <bddebian> 21:22
[02:52] <bddebian> Maybe it's just because I annoyed elmo today? :-)
[02:53] <ogra> did you ?
[02:53] <bddebian> I think a little.  But they were all valid sync requests afaict.  Though I am disappointed with regina-normal.
[02:59] <bddebian> Hmm, same for stellarium but I don't even see the -3 buildlogs for stellarium.
[02:59] <bddebian> lamont: ping
[03:01] <bddebian> Damn I hate this time of day
[03:24] <bddebian> There is a bug on Malone (2077) requesting an update of libdv which is in main.  Before I get in trouble again, how should this be handled?
[03:25] <bddebian> Same for lirc
[03:28] <mjg59> http://lists.userlinux.com/pipermail/discuss/2005-September/007376.html is fun
[03:28] <mjg59> No idea why it ended up on the Userlinux list
[03:28] <mjg59> (Userlinux summary: Still no userlinux)
[03:30] <bddebian> Heh
[03:33] <jdub> daniels: ping
[03:34] <daniels> jdub: represent
[03:34] <jdub> daniels: dude, my i855crt stuff still isn't working right
[03:35] <jdub> i get hideous colours on my vga output
[03:35] <daniels> define 'hideous colours'
[03:35] <mjg59> jdub: Uhm, yeah, that actually seems to be usplash
[03:35] <daniels> and when did it stop 'working right'?
[03:35] <daniels> oh, sweet, SEP
[03:35] <jdub> daniels: long before guadec
[03:35] <mjg59> Oh, maybe not, then
[03:35] <mjg59> Hurrah. Not my fault.
[03:35] <jdub> daniels: because i talked to you about it then, too
[03:35] <daniels> jdub: my powers of recall are weak
[03:35] <jdub> though it appeared to be some strange interaction with a second screen then
[03:36] <mjg59> daniels: I get it too - switch to CRT out and the background colours are psychadelic
[03:36] <jdub> hideous colours == washed out, psychadelic, rainbow, etc.
[03:37] <jdub> (means i can't use my laptop for presentations)
[03:37] <daniels> wow, sweet
[03:37] <mjg59> daniels: Test on your X40
[03:37] <daniels> i think I have an idea of what that might be
[03:37] <mjg59> I'm not using i855crt any more, and it still happens
[03:38] <daniels> mjg59: not using i855crt -> dual head defined in xorg.conf?
[03:38] <mjg59> daniels: No
[03:38] <mjg59> daniels: Hitting fn+f7
[03:38] <mjg59> The BIOS does the switch now
[03:38] <jdub> mine doesn't do that
[03:39] <mjg59> jdub: Yours should do
[03:39] <jdub> daniels: is it configuration fixable?
[03:39] <jdub> mjg59: nein
[03:39] <jdub> fn-f8 on mine, doesn't do anything
[03:39] <mjg59> jdub: Uhm. It's worked fine for me on previous X300s.
[03:40] <jdub> maybe if i've been abusing i855crt it won't work?
[03:40] <mjg59> Hm. Possible.
[03:40] <mjg59> jdub: You've seen that weird Tom Lord email on userlinux-discuss?
[03:41] <jdub> yeah
[03:41] <jdub> funny
[03:41] <bob2> no
[03:41] <bob2> echan
[03:43] <jdub> i should probably get a move on
[03:43] <jdub> mjg59: nm/nm-applet doesn't survive sleep
[03:44] <jdub> and of course, restarting nm means restarting dbus
[03:44] <mjg59> jdub: nm? Nothing to do with me, I'm afraid
[03:44] <jdub> which is VERBOTEN
[03:44] <jdub> mjg59: no, but you may have insight to help fix it
[03:44] <mjg59> But the version in the archive survives fine here
[03:44] <jdub>  *** 0.4.1+cvs20050817-1 0
[03:44] <jdub>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[03:44] <jdub>      0.4.1+cvs20050618-3 0
[03:44] <jdub>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
[03:44] <jdub> 
[03:44] <jdub> hmm
[03:45] <jdub> must have newer from j^
[03:45] <mjg59> Yeah, I have the archive one
[03:45] <mjg59> Which occasionally disconnects me from the world, but other than that seems to work
[03:45] <mjg59> Also, you should play with gnome-power-manager
[03:45] <jdub> i did a bit
[03:46] <daniels> maybe it's time for another pull from HEAD, because fn+f7 is okay here
[03:46] <jdub> but a while back
[03:46] <jdub> ok, gotta go
[03:47] <daniels> jdub: wait
[03:47] <daniels> jdub: i demand to know the version of xserver-xorg-driver-i810
[03:47] <jdub> mjg59: oh!
[03:47] <jdub> mjg59: it is because i am on my base station
[03:47] <mjg59> daniels: Hmm. Yeah, it's ok here too now.
[03:47] <jdub> mjg59: and it seems to break all of that
[03:47] <jdub> daniels: 6.8.2-56
[03:48] <jdub> mjg59: it doesn't do anything when i press sleep, either
[03:48] <mjg59> jdub: On the dock? Suck.
[03:48] <mjg59> I don't /remember/ that being a problem
[03:49] <daniels> okay, so i855crt is broken, but fn+f7 is okay
[03:49] <daniels> i *think* I know what this is
[03:49] <jdub> mjg59: can i help through figuring out dock stuff?
[03:53] <daniels> sweet jesus
[03:53] <mjg59> jdub: Hm. Running the latest kernel?
[03:53] <jdub> latest breezy bits
[03:53] <mjg59> Can you grab http://free.linux.hp.com/~awilliam/acpi/dev_acpi/dev_acpi-20041026.tar.bz2 and build the userspace stuff
[03:54] <mjg59> Then run eventwatch
[03:54] <mjg59> Wait for the initial splurge to die down, then try pressing keys and see if anything gets generated
[03:55] <mjg59> You know what the best thing about having had no mail today is?
[03:55] <mjg59> I haven't got a new bug yet
[03:56] <daniels> right, i855-crt is out of sync with the new pipe handling code
[03:56] <jdub> hrm, how do i get a modules/*/build directory again?
[03:56] <daniels> tbh, I have no desire to fix it, since fn-fX should work and work better
[03:56] <mjg59> jdub: You shouldn't need one
[03:57] <mjg59> Just do make eventwatch
[03:57] <jdub> yeah, it wants dev_acpi built
[03:58] <mjg59> Nngh
[03:58] <mjg59> Hack teh makefile
[03:58] <mjg59> Or install linux-headers-`uname -r`
[03:58] <jdub> nono, it *really* wants dev_acpi
[03:58] <jdub> #include "dev_acpi.h"
[03:58] <jdub> #define DEVICE "/dev/acpi"
[03:59] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah. That's fine, but it doesn't need it *built*
[03:59] <mjg59> dev_acpi is in the kernel
[03:59] <jdub> hrm
[04:00] <jdub> hrm
[04:00] <jdub> eventwatch.c:36:27: error: acpi/acconfig.h: No such file or directory eventwatch.c:37:33: error: acpi/platform/acenv.h: No such file or directory
[04:00] <jdub> yeah, need headers
[04:01] <mjg59> Hngh.
[04:01] <mjg59> Right.
[04:01] <jdub> dum de dum
[04:01] <daniels> i need to turn more xorg problems into acpi problems
[04:02] <jdub> daniels: there's still an i855crt problem!
[04:02] <daniels> jdub: fuck i855crt
[04:02] <jdub> heh
[04:02] <daniels> jdub: it's a really nasty hack
[04:02] <jdub> ie. once fn-f8 works, you don't care?
[04:02] <daniels> yeah
[04:02] <jdub> ok
[04:02] <daniels> because fn-f7 works here
[04:02] <mjg59> We mostly needed i855crt because the BIOS stuff was broken in older i810 driver code
[04:03] <mjg59> Now it has more int10 goodness!
[04:03] <daniels> keeping the i855crt codebase painfully in sync with the i810 driver is not my idea of a good time
[04:03] <daniels> mjg59: don't make me quote you on that
[04:03] <mjg59> daniels: You can't see my facial expression
[04:03] <jdub> sec
[04:03] <jdub> cab
[04:03] <jdub> will do rest on the way ;)
[04:04] <mjg59> Heh
[04:04] <mjg59> See you
[04:04] <daniels> mjg59: la la la la I'm not listening
[04:06] <bddebian> heh
[04:07] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[04:07] <jdub> eh
[04:07] <jdub> slow
[04:07] <jdub> mjg59: nothgng when ipess keys
[04:08] <jdub> still in dock
[04:08] <jdub> in cab
[04:09] <jdub> ping anyone?
[04:10] <desrt> pong?
[04:10] <bob2> mjg59 may be looking for more whiskey to ease the int10 pain
[04:10] <jdub> ah thanks
[04:11] <jdub> yay gprs
[04:11] <jdub> boo mjg59 
[04:11] <mjg59> jdub: Hm.
[04:11] <jdub> heh
[04:11] <mjg59> jdub: Fn+escape doesn't produce anything?
[04:11] <jdub> my volume things work
[04:11] <jdub> fn-esc is suspend, doesn't work
[04:12] <mjg59> And nothing in eventwatch?
[04:12] <jdub> no output
[04:12] <mjg59> Gah
[04:12] <mjg59> No idea, I'm afraid
[04:12] <jdub> anything else that gets output?
[04:12] <jdub> closing lid doesn't
[04:12] <mjg59> Does closing the lid lock the screen?
[04:12] <jdub> no
[04:14] <jdub> will reboot in dock to make sure
[04:14] <daniels> yay acpi broken
[04:14] <bob2> this with your x1?
[04:14] <mjg59> jdub: Ok. Does pressing the sleep key cause interrupt 9 to increment?
[04:14] <jdub> hold on
[04:14] <jdub> eventmode is in D state
[04:14] <jdub> bob2: x300
[04:15] <jdub> can't kill it
[04:16] <jdub> er, eventwatch
[04:16] <jdub> rebooting
[04:23] <marcin_ant> hi all
[04:24] <marcin_ant> could someone tell me why nautilus-sendto on breezy doesn't have bluetooth support?
[04:25] <marcin_ant> is this unstable or something? or just it compiled without bluetooth and no one cares?
[04:25] <ajmitch> bluez-utils was only recently promoted to main
[04:25] <ajmitch> does the nautilus-sendto code depend on gnome-bluetooth?
[04:25] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, the thing is that nautilus-sendto depends on gnome-bluetooth
[04:25] <shackan> it does
[04:26] <marcin_ant> and it doesn't compile with bt support because there is no gnome-bluetooth.pc file in gnome-bluetooth package
[04:26] <ajmitch> and gnome-bluetooth is in universe
[04:26] <marcin_ant> (propably it requires some gnome-bluetooth headers or something)
[04:26] <ajmitch> I don't believe it's being promoted to main, as it's quite late in the cycle
[04:27] <jsgotangco> why not? its just not going into our feature
[04:28] <marcin_ant> so because gnome-bluetooth is not in main repository then you don't have bt support in nautilus-sendto?
[04:28] <ajmitch> marcin_ant: didn't you say that nautilus-sendto required gnome-bluetooth to compile?
[04:29] <marcin_ant> it requires to compile BT plugin
[04:29] <ajmitch> right, so as it stands now, we won't have it
[04:29] <shackan> it's optional, it has also email and IM plugins afaik
[04:29] <ajmitch> that decision may change
[04:30] <shackan> until when may this change ?
[04:30] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, so it pretty sucks that you don't include pretty nice feature to your package only because you don't like it's dependency
[04:31] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, and in fact I could understant this
[04:31] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, but then it could be nice to have something like nautilus-sendto-bluetoothplugin package in universe 
[04:31] <ajmitch> marcin_ant: yes, and that could be possible
[04:32] <shackan> sad to admit it's partially my fault
[04:32] <Lathiat> it would have to be a separate source package, however
[04:32] <ajmitch> something similar was done with php4 packaging
[04:32] <Lathiat> and gstreamer-plugins
[04:32] <ajmitch> I'd like to see it, as I've got some bluetooth devices
[04:32] <shackan> ajmitch, I was the student assigned to bluetooth support
[04:33] <ajmitch> shackan: ah right
[04:33] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, another thing that bluetooth support is on top of breezy goals in wiki...
[04:33] <shackan> (for that Google thingie)
[04:33] <Lathiat> shackan: were you not able to complete it?
[04:33] <ajmitch> marcin_ant: yes, and feature freeze began last month - things not ready by then didn't make it in
[04:33] <shackan> spent time writing the dbus bluetooth daemon from scratch
[04:33] <ajmitch> shackan: ouch :)
[04:34] <shackan> you bet
[04:34] <marcin_ant> shackan, and what it gives to end user?
[04:34] <marcin_ant> shackan, for example I wish to have pretty simple feature from my k700i cell phone in ubuntu
[04:35] <marcin_ant> shackan, this feature is an access to files stored on my phone via bluetooth and ftp protocol
[04:35] <marcin_ant> shackan, in windows I got shortcut in windows-explorer (bluetooth places) and I can copy/move/remove files just like on ftp account
[04:35] <mdz> daniels: what is the ATI driver/DRI version mismatch that was mentioned in the colony 4 thread
[04:35] <mdz> ?
[04:36] <shackan> to the programmer, it gives an easier api to handle those devices than the actual low level bluez, and a clear separation of the core stuff from the gui tools, so we can have a Gtk gui and a Qt one without changing the underlying stuff
[04:36] <marcin_ant> shackan, is there a chance to have this functionality with nautilus? obex/ftp protocol?
[04:36] <shackan> marcin_ant, you ever tries the obexftp gnome-vfs module ?
[04:36] <shackan> *tried
[04:37] <marcin_ant> shackan, no I use gnome-obex-send and gnome-obex-server
[04:37] <mdz> daniels: never mind, saw the bug
[04:37] <marcin_ant> shackan, is this the same?
[04:37] <shackan> marcin_ant, what you mention is gnome-bluetooth, which is very limited right now
[04:38] <daniels> mdz: i have the fix (new l-r-m with the nvidia and fglrx stuff) in hand, just need a couple of people to get back to me on nvidia legacy stuff
[04:38] <marcin_ant> shackan, apt-getting obexftp
[04:38] <Lathiat> daniels: will do so this afternoon
[04:38] <Lathiat> daniels: however, im fairly sure its the kernel driver that has a cry given it has the pci ids and writes in dmesg
[04:38] <ajmitch> marcin_ant: understood, I have the same model phone beside me on the desk :)
[04:39] <ajmitch> daniels: how legacy do you need?
[04:39] <daniels> ajmitch: not supported by the current driver
[04:39] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, nice :)
[04:39] <daniels> ajmitch: perfect!
[04:39] <marcin_ant> ajmitch, and how you transfer files to and from this phone?
[04:39] <daniels> ajmitch: could you please try to modprobe nvidia from the current version (7667 or 7674, the former is in l-r-m) and tell me if the kernel driver bombs or not?
[04:39] <shackan> obex ftp is just a cli program, like your command line ftp, more or less ( only that directory listing is formatted and xml-like format :) I don't know if there's a package for the vfs module ( I haven't tried it anyway, just studied its source code )
[04:40] <ajmitch> daniels: I'll have to do it later, since it's my home box, running 2.6.12-6
[04:40] <ajmitch> and all I can say at the moment is that it works on that kernel
[04:41] <marcin_ant> shackan, right - I cannot see obexftp gnome-vfs package too
[04:42] <daniels> ajmitch: sure
[04:42] <daniels> ajmitch: okay, thanks
[04:42] <marcin_ant> anyway it could be nice have two things in ubuntu 1. nautilus-sendto with BT support
[04:42] <shackan> I wanted to do that, but run out of time with other things
[04:43] <marcin_ant> and 2. some gui tool to scan bt neighbourhood, and scan available services and for example mount obexftp device as yet another 'drive'
[04:43] <shackan> ah, that one can be done
[04:43] <shackan> I'm already on it actually
[04:43] <shackan> only the 'mount' part is missing
[04:44] <marcin_ant> of course propably support for com ports via BT and gprs connectivity is more important
[04:45] <marcin_ant> but I could say that support for syncml via bluetooth in evolution is important too
[04:46] <marcin_ant> shackan, I know how to scan devices with gnome-bluetooth manager - but it doesn't show available services
[04:46] <shackan> http://shackan.altervista.org/service_panel.png
[04:46] <shackan> take a look
[04:46] <marcin_ant> shackan, and I can scan these services with cli tools
[04:46] <shackan> I know
[04:47] <marcin_ant> shackan, but I don't know how to mount this obexftp device...
[04:47] <shackan> I had to do that without cli tools
[04:47] <shackan> and I relegated all the low level stuff to my daemon now
[04:47] <marcin_ant> shackan, is this bluetooth browser available somewhere?
[04:49] <shackan> yes, but installation of gui and daemon is a but cumbersome now, since I didn't have time to write the debs
[04:49] <marcin_ant> shackan, (btw I know that I shouldn't talk about it out loud but today I installed SP2 on my XP box and MS drivers for MSI6967 BT dongle... really great stuff, good and intuitive UI)
[04:50] <ajmitch> shackan: hand the deb creation to MOTUs who might have some spare time for it
[04:50] <marcin_ant> shackan, any repository? cvs/svn?
[04:50] <ajmitch> shackan: no guarantees of getting in, but we'll try :)
[04:50] <shackan> if you convince my menthor to give me the money I can continue development :)
[04:51] <shackan> marcin_ant, http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/bluetool/trunk/ but I discourage you to checkout
[04:51] <marcin_ant> shackan, btw did you get money from google? (just courious)
[04:51] <shackan> of course not
[04:52] <marcin_ant> shackan, of course not yet or of course not because it didn't qualify to get money?
[04:52] <shackan> seems I've worked two months 24/7 for free (anyway, I'm getting OT)
[04:53] <marcin_ant> in fact I think that this SoC thing is pretty strange - a lot of PR on start
[04:53] <marcin_ant> and then it is absolutely quiet...
[04:53] <shackan> it couldn't get production level stuff by 1st september, and apparently unlike other google projects couldn't continue it after deadline
[04:54] <marcin_ant> shackan, I see
[04:55] <marcin_ant> shackan, btw where are you from? italy?
[04:55] <shackan> anyway I wish I hadn't written 14000 lines of code for nothing, but mine its just a rant
[04:55] <shackan> yes, italy
[04:55] <wasabi> For nothing?
[04:55] <wasabi> You have 14,000 lines of code. That's not nothing.
[04:55] <shackan> wasabi, they dont pay the rent
[04:56] <marcin_ant> wasabi, you cannot give this code at shop for food ;)
[04:56] <mjg59> shackan: There was a deadline. That's the way the world works.
[04:59] <marcin_ant> I wonder if there is some bounty available from canonical for further development on this BT project
[05:00] <mjg59> marcin_ant: It's quite likely that there will be. Bluetooth support on the desktop is greatly lacking.
[05:00] <shackan> that's not the point, today I found out with my menthor that if I had spoken earlier about my being late on schedule they could have let me through, but since I'm bloody dumbass and I was aiming too high even hoping to get it on time...
[05:00] <jsgotangco> marcin_ant, its in the wiki BreezyBounties
[05:00] <marcin_ant> jsgotangco, sure but as google bounty
[05:00] <jsgotangco> ah
[05:01] <jsgotangco> 14,000 lines of code can still be used for Breezy +1
[05:01] <marcin_ant> and in fact I'm not interested since it is too difficult for me - but I would like to work on calendarsynchronization bounty
[05:02] <marcin_ant> anyway does anyone here know something about money from canonical?
[05:03] <bob2> it tastes better than regular money
[05:03] <shackan> jsgotangco, they can be used for what you want, you can also print them and use it as toilet paper as far as I'm concerned, I got the good news today and I don't care anymore about what will come of that
[05:03] <marcin_ant>  shackan, could get 4500 from google - and propably canonical bounties are not so high
[05:03] <mjg59> marcin_ant: The right way to work on the calendar synchronisation stuff is to get involved in opensync
[05:03] <shackan> uhm, "good news" was ironical of course
[05:03] <mjg59> marcin_ant: If there is any more money, already having written some code will make it much more likely that you'll be picked
[05:03] <shackan> marcin_ant, seems I can't get google money anymore
[05:04] <shackan> but, again, I'm getting OT here
[05:05] <marcin_ant> mjg59, well the thing is that calendar synchronization is breezy bounty (related with opensync and evo) and it is propably gnome bounty (novell)
[05:05] <marcin_ant> mjg59, (but I'm not sure if it is still available)
[05:06] <mjg59> marcin_ant: As a summer of code bounty? No. But as an Ubuntu one, almost certainly
[05:06] <marcin_ant> mjg59, I've been talking with jbailey about it some time ago and I thing that problem is that propably no one knows what is this goal about
[05:06] <mjg59> marcin_ant: Basically, make opensync work
[05:07] <marcin_ant> mjg59, no CalendarSynchonization wasn't google bounty
[05:07] <ajmitch> opensync packages will be built for debian real soon now, according to their list
[05:07] <mjg59> marcin_ant: Get opensync into a state where it supports syncml, whatever protocol it is that WinCE uses, and PalmOS
[05:07] <Lathiat> funky
[05:07] <Lathiat> opensync is looking good
[05:07] <shackan> I didn't have anything about calendar synchronization
[05:07] <Lathiat> irmc would be nice too
[05:07] <ajmitch> Lathiat: yeah, I've been on their list watching since it started up
[05:07] <mjg59> And can synchronise all of those against Evo
[05:08] <marcin_ant> mjg59, syncml synchronization is one thing
[05:08] <marcin_ant> mjg59, and this bounty http://www.gnome.org/bounties/Calendar.html#127538 is propably a little different
[05:09] <mjg59> Yes, that's quite different
[05:09] <mjg59> Though it could probably be done via opensync
[05:09] <marcin_ant> mjg59, and afaik there are two different ideas - ical and caldav
[05:09] <mjg59> marcin_ant: Yeah. They're not what the Ubuntu bounty is about.
[05:09] <marcin_ant> mjg59, well true
[05:10] <marcin_ant> mjg59, the only thing is to write plugins to opensync
[05:11] <shackan> bah, its 5:10 am anyway
[05:11] <marcin_ant> mjg59, anyway I need to go to bed
[05:11] <mjg59> marcin_ant: And integrate into the desktop
[05:11] <marcin_ant> shackan, hehe we are in the same time zone ;)
[05:11] <shackan> :)
[05:11] <shackan> you from?
[05:11] <marcin_ant> shackan, and we should better go to sleep
[05:11] <marcin_ant> shackan, Poland
[05:12] <shackan> bah, I've coded until 5am for two months
[05:12] <shackan> it's hard to regain regular sleeping habits
[05:12] <marcin_ant> shackan, I usually goto bed at 4 am... coding at night ;)
[05:13] <shackan> moreover, disappointment for being fired today took my appetite and sleep far far away
[05:13] <shackan> but we're OT again...
[05:13] <mpt> shackan needs a hug
[05:14] <mpt> well, yeah, that too
[05:14] <bob2> I bet mpt is good at both
[05:14] <marcin_ant> so we need to launch #ubuntu-money channel :)
[05:14] <mpt> bob2: Sweet-talking will get you nowhere
[05:16] <daniels> mjg59: oh, by the way
[05:16] <daniels> mjg59: there should be a new shiny interesting option in i810-land for you, I think
[05:17] <bob2> what is fn-f3 supporsed to do, anyway?
[05:17] <mjg59> daniels: Mmm?
[05:17] <daniels> mjg59: ah, nevermind
[05:17] <mjg59> Damnit, don't tempt me like that
[05:18] <daniels> need to harass alanh to commit vesa-mode-table-rewriting
[05:18] <mjg59> Nnngh.
[05:18] <mjg59> Yes.
[05:18] <mjg59> It *works*
[05:18] <mjg59> Pls provide code k thx bi
[05:20] <daniels> he
[05:20] <daniels> h
[05:20] <daniels> i'll ask him today
[05:44] <daniels> i swear if anyone else bzip2s a Xorg.0.log, I'm going to explode
[05:44] <HrdwrBoB> lol
[05:48] <Lathiat> daniels: .. ?
[05:48] <dilinger> actually, scratch that.  cpuinfo claims it supports mmx
[05:50] <Lathiat> daniels: uh, why?
[05:52] <daniels> Lathiat: because it's a pain in the arse for me to look at the log
[05:52] <daniels> Lathiat: it's a false economy, since all you save is like 50kB, and attachments aren't mailed out to people
[05:52] <Lathiat> heh
[05:52] <Lathiat> well uh
[05:52] <Lathiat> i'll rzip my next one 
[05:52] <Lathiat> :)
[05:54] <daniels> don't compress it at all
[05:54] <daniels> just attach
[05:56] <mjg59> I'll pad it with nulls
[05:57] <daniels> mjg59: i know you do it because you care
[05:57] <bddebian> mjg59: :-)
[06:05] <bur[n] er> would a nautilus bug be pertinent for ubuntu bugs or should I go straight to gnome's bugzilla?  it's just sftp:// crash happy, even in 2.12
[06:08] <desrt> Failed to fetch http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/universe/source/Sources.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[06:08] <desrt> O_o
[06:10] <robitaille> bur[n] er,  depends; do you think it is an ubuntu-specific bug, or gnome specific.  If you're not sure, just fill up a bugzilla bug report.
[06:20] <lamont> bddebian: pong
[06:21] <bddebian> Doh, how'd I know you'd pong when I was going to bed.. :-)
[06:22] <bddebian> lamont: Is ctsim and/or stellarium hung up?
[06:23] <robitaille> bur[n] er,  he still plays for them last time I heard.   
[06:24] <lamont> universe/science/stellarium_0.6.2-3ubuntu1: Dep-Wait by buildd+king [optional:out-of-date] 
[06:24] <lamont>   Dependencies: xlibmesa-gl-dev
[06:24] <lamont> bddebian: so is that something that's fixed and clearing will help?
[06:25] <bddebian> Well I had elmo sync -3 from Debian, then -3ubuntu1 should fix the xlibmesa-gl-dev dep..
[06:25] <lamont> ok
[06:26] <lamont> bddebian: cleared
[06:26] <bddebian> Kick-ass, thanks lamont Did ctsim even show up.
[06:26] <bddebian> Whoops, sorry, nm
[06:26] <lamont> it's marked installed...
[06:26] <bddebian> Hmm, OK.  Thanks again.  Gnight
[06:28] <crimsun> argh
[06:51] <Burgundavia> Kamion, thanks for the hint
[07:04] <fabbione> morning
[07:07] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[07:12] <fabbione> desrt: sorry that i had to go away so fast yesterday
[07:13] <fabbione> what were you looking for?
[07:13] <desrt> fabbione; patch testing :P
[07:13] <desrt> it's damned difficult to find someone with an acpi laptop and a few spare minutes
[07:14] <fabbione> i have a laptop, but it's very old...
[07:15] <desrt> it's ok
[07:15] <desrt> martin will probably be awake soon
[07:15] <desrt> then he can deal with it :P
[07:16] <fabbione> ok :)
[07:17] <desrt> it's sort of a shame that the lot of us own powerbooks/ibooks :P
[07:17] <fabbione> desrt: i am planning to buy one soon
[07:17] <daniels> just get an x40
[07:17] <fabbione> daniels: no.. i want a powerbook
[07:18] <fabbione> i need something != i386 | m68k
[07:18] <desrt> fabbione; i tried to get mjg59 to buy me one.  i was too late though :(
[07:19] <fabbione> desrt: don't be upset ... plenty of people didn't get one.. me included
[07:20] <daniels> fabbione: ... why?
[07:20] <fabbione> daniels: because i have like 8 i386 at home...
[07:20] <fabbione> i want something that's not i386
[07:20] <desrt> get a tadpole :)
[07:21] <fabbione> new arch .. new problems .. new challenges
[07:21] <daniels> getting other architectures at home would seem to be a better solution
[07:21] <daniels> since you always have other machines to use at home when something goes arong
[07:21] <daniels> wrong, even
[07:21] <daniels> not so on the road
[07:21] <daniels> and i386 is the only way to get a laptop that's both reliable and not shit
[07:21] <fabbione> daniels: the same way i fix i386, i can fix ppc
[07:22] <PlutoPrime> I'm on a pentium m laptop right now
[07:22] <fabbione> daniels: if the hw breaks down, there is not much you can do anyway
[07:23] <bur[n] er> as much as i prefer amd, pentium m's are the best... good battery life & speed & temp & fan noise is low
[07:24] <PlutoPrime> I was watching the cpu-step meter and watching a movie full screen was stuck at 600mhz which I found impressive... glad the desktop x86 is getting speed-step
[07:24] <PlutoPrime> save a lot of power and noise
[07:25] <pitti> Good morning
[07:25] <daniels> pitti: morning
[07:25] <desrt> pitti; word.
[07:25] <Chipzz> fabbione: I have sparc and pa-risc here :P
[07:25] <Chipzz> and an m68k xterm
[07:26] <daniels> i have our three supported architectures here, so I'm happy
[07:26] <Chipzz> (as a matter of fact of have more running non-i386 than running i386 :)
[07:26] <daniels> (i386 laptop, amd64 desktop, powerpc desktop machine that's not used as a desktop, sparc that just runs sid)
[07:27] <Chipzz> oh and an arm (I think) linksys accesspoint :)
[07:27] <Chipzz> if that counts
[07:28] <Chipzz> (it runs linux though :P)
[07:28] <fabbione> daniels: i only have i386/sparc/m68k... hence the need to add a ppc
[07:28] <fabbione> Chipzz: hppa and ia64 will come soon i hope
[07:28] <Treenaks> daniels: PCIE ATI cards not having DRI is a known bug?
[07:28] <daniels> fabbione: don't forget amd64
[07:28] <Chipzz> fabbione: I think I should be able to obtain an alpha
[07:29] <fabbione> daniels: yeah.. one thing at a time :)
[07:29] <daniels> Treenaks: yeah, we don't have PCIE support in the DRM, which sucks
[07:29] <Chipzz> m68k/ppc should be easy
[07:29] <desrt> daniels; did you get a chance to test that patch?
[07:29] <Treenaks> daniels: ok
[07:29] <fabbione> Chipzz: eh.. alpha has been donated to me, but it never arrived here :(
[07:29] <Chipzz> I think the hardest would be mips and mipsel
[07:30] <daniels> desrt: no, not yet
[07:30] <Chipzz> I had the chance to buy and SGI once, but I didn't have the money back then :/
[07:30] <fabbione> Chipzz: ps2 has mips
[07:30] <daniels> mips and mipsel don't even really work anyway
[07:30] <pitti> jdub: is your double CD-ROM problem solved in gnome-vfs2 2.12.0-0ubuntu1?
[07:30] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:31] <pitti> Hi my dear fabbione! :-)
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: i think you forgot to forward the patch in attachment to BenC
[07:31] <Chipzz> daniels: well there are buildd's for them, so I suppose they do... ;P
[07:31] <desrt> pitti; there's some acpid loving for you in bugzilla
[07:31] <pitti> fabbione: uh, did I?
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: anyway the agreement is that i will do hoary and he will do breezy
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: it looks like..
[07:31] <pitti> fabbione: ok, I send him the patch
[07:31] <pitti> desrt: cool! I do that immediately after preview
[07:31] <Chipzz> hmmm s390
[07:32] <Chipzz> what's that even?
[07:32] <desrt> pitti; might want to wait for some testing, actually...
[07:32] <desrt> pitti; so far, completely untested :P
[07:32] <Chipzz> fabbione: as the main processor or as a coprocessor?
[07:33] <daniels> Chipzz: yes, but that's no great metric.  all of the mipsel binaries uploaded during a two or three-month period once were completely broken.
[07:33] <fabbione> Chipzz: main afaik
[07:33] <fabbione> Chipzz: i have a ps2 here, but no money to buy the linux kit
[07:33] <daniels> Chipzz: and the toolchain breaks so frequently on mips* that you're lucky if half the archive builds.  look at the built-package stats for them.
[07:33] <Chipzz> daniels: well that's the toolchain, not linux itself ;P
[07:33] <daniels> Chipzz: s390 is a mainframe, you don't want that
[07:34] <Chipzz> *g*
[07:35] <Chipzz> daniels: weird, as a lot of textbooks take mips as the example to explain computer (processor) architecture
[07:35] <daniels> Chipzz: yes, and a lot of people use modular kernels as a nice computer science example in academia.
[07:35] <Chipzz> "Computer Architecture - A Quantitative Approac" which is laying next to my bed does, for example
[07:36] <Chipzz> daniels: good point :)
[07:43] <jdub> pitti: looks good to me
[07:44] <pitti> jdub: yay
[07:47] <PlutoPrime> I was wondering is hal 0.54 going to make it to breezy?
[08:07] <pitti> PlutoPrime: probably not, I rather backport now
[08:11] <jdub> ogra: when will xscreensaver get s/Someone else.../Switch user.../ ? :)
[08:12] <bob2> is that picture of me going to last in to the final release of breezy?
[08:12] <jdub> no, ogra's asked for new images
[08:12] <bob2> dang
[08:13] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:13] <tritium> daniels: got a minute?
[08:14] <Treenaks> picture of bob2?!
[08:14] <Nafallo> /note to self: _sleep_ in the nights, be _awake_ in daytime
[08:15] <Nafallo> Treenaks: apt-get install gnome-screensaver ;-)
[08:15] <jsgotangco> Treenaks, yeah, you'll see bob2, chmj and jdub
[08:15] <Treenaks> Nafallo: unless you're planning on migrating to the other side of the planet
[08:15] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: *eep*
[08:15] <fabbione> Nafallo: hey.. did you get my messages from yesterday?
[08:15] <jsgotangco> that was probably taken after the smackdown in UDU
[08:15] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: I want UBZ :)
[08:15] <bob2> I look too concious for it to be UDU
[08:16] <Nafallo> fabbione: mplayer? yepp. uploaded some hour or so after that.
[08:16] <fabbione> Nafallo: ok
[08:16] <Nafallo> * The "fabbione told me to..." release.
[08:16] <Nafallo> :-)
[08:16] <fabbione> oh yeah i see it now
[08:16] <fabbione> i missed the mail to -changes
[08:17] <Nafallo> hmm, evo needs hilight-support then ;-)
[08:17] <Treenaks> Are there python-bindings for the plugin layer yet?
[08:18] <Nafallo> hmm, I'll have to find my coffeine-pills
[08:19] <Treenaks> Nafallo: whoa, that's strong coffee then
[08:19] <Nafallo> Treenaks: 200mg should do ;-)
[08:21] <bob2> I'm not sure if it's creepier that you remember it or that I do
[08:23] <daniels> tritium: sort of
[08:23] <daniels> tritium: what's up?
[08:23] <daniels> jsgotangco: i think jbailey's in that picture too
[08:24] <jdub> i thought it was mvo
[08:24] <daniels> oh yeah
[08:24] <daniels> yeah, it is
[08:24] <daniels> i started off thinking it was jbailey and ended up with probably-mvo
[08:24] <tritium> daniels: I'm testing a Toshiba Tecra A2.  Blacklisting evdev restores speed/tapping to my touchpad (re: #14480)
[08:25] <Nafallo> marilize: hi! what's the status on the 400 CDs? are they sent?
[08:25] <daniels> tritium: hrm.  and you've got xorg-driver-synaptics 0.14.3+revertedto+0.13.6-0ubuntu1 installed?
[08:26] <daniels> tritium: if so, then I'll cheerfully declare it a kernel bug and move on with my life
[08:26] <tritium> daniels: let me verify that...
[08:26] <niran> wow. if i scroll gedit too fast, it crashes. fun.
[08:27] <jsgotangco> i still have 0.14.3-1ubuntu1
[08:28] <tritium> daniels: no, 0.14.3-1ubuntu1
[08:30] <daniels> hrm, 'sec
[08:31] <tritium> sure
[08:32] <daniels> okay, new version uploaded that should fix -0ubuntu1's FTBFS :P
[08:33] <tritium> okay
[08:33] <jsgotangco> k we'll just wait
[08:33] <marilize> Nafallo: Hi, email address you placed the order with?
[08:33] <tritium> thanks, daniels 
[08:34] <tritium> I'll try that, and not blacklist evdev
[08:36] <tritium> hey dholbach :)
[08:36] <dholbach> good morning
[08:36] <dholbach> hey michael
[08:36] <daniels> ;win 38
[08:36] <dholbach> hey daniel :)
[08:36] <Nafallo> marilize: nafallo@magicalforest.se for SFD
[08:37] <Mithrandir> \sh_away: pong
[08:37] <Nafallo> marilize: so if they are not sent, there is not much point in doing so :-P
[08:37] <dholbach> morning tollef
[08:37] <jsgotangco> Nafallo, burn 'em!
[08:38] <Nafallo> jsgotangco: 400 CDs on a laptop? :-P
[08:38] <jsgotangco> oh
[08:38] <jsgotangco> you can start now
[08:39] <Nafallo> we do have 100 copies of TheOpenCD :-P
[08:39] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: ey! :-)
[08:40] <marilize> Nafallo: you'le get if early next week, too late?
[08:40] <Nafallo> marilize: SFD is this weekend
[08:44] <wickedpuppy> hi guys does anyone here know who should i contact for bootloading ubuntu ??
[08:44] <Treenaks> wickedpuppy: what do you mean?
[08:44] <Treenaks> wickedpuppy: a bug in the bootloader?
[08:44] <marilize> Nafallo: I'll have to speak to Mako to see if he can do something for you....
[08:44] <Treenaks> wickedpuppy: preloaded ubuntu on new systems?
[08:46] <Nafallo> marilize: send him with the cds? :-)
[08:46] <marilize> Nafallo: maybe with a rocket :)
[08:46] <Nafallo> hehe
[08:47] <jsgotangco> good luck on taking him out of boston heh
[08:47] <Nafallo> jsgotangco: ;-)
[08:48] <tritium> good night
[09:04] <Nafallo> pitti: ? anything special on them? :-)
[09:05] <pitti> Nafallo: well, if everything goes well, they become the preview isos
[09:05] <pitti> (I assume)
[09:05] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:05] <jsgotangco> i just rsync'ed and it works nicely
[09:05] <Nafallo> pitti: yay! :-)
[09:05] <Treenaks> colony4 is broken on my old laptop
[09:06] <Treenaks> it stalls in stage2 when "Downloading 854 of 858 (0s remaining)"
[09:06] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[09:06] <jsgotangco> that is strange
[09:06] <Treenaks> when running aptitude
[09:06] <jsgotangco> it should have been solved a few days after Colony 3
[09:07] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: this is a very old/slow machine
[09:07] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: 600MHz
[09:08] <jsgotangco> wow just like my PDA
[09:08] <jsgotangco> (well almost)
[09:11] <ajmitch> Treenaks: perhaps a re-burn is in order
[09:12] <Treenaks> ajmitch: this CD worked last night on my OTHER laptop
[09:12] <ajmitch> or check the cd integrity, since I had that problem & a new cd made it all happy
[09:12] <ajmitch> that's the other laptop :)
[09:12] <ajmitch> some drives don't like some cds
[09:13] <Mithrandir> mvo: it appears that the update-notifier notification isn't xinerama-aware?
[09:14] <Treenaks> ajmitch: it's ancient, so it might not like this CDRW
[09:14] <ajmitch> Treenaks: I think we should be booting off usb storage ;)
[09:15] <Treenaks> ajmitch: no way
[09:15] <Treenaks> ajmitch: the thing only has 1 USB port, and it's USB 1.1
[09:15] <mvo> Mithrandir: possible, what are the symptoms?
[09:15] <rob^> juat a quick question: does gstreamer0.8-dvd do the same job as libdvdcss/2?
[09:16] <bob2> no
[09:16] <Mithrandir> mvo: the notification is spread across both monitors.
[09:16] <rob^> so we are still having issues with dvd playback then 
[09:16] <rob^> ?
[09:17] <Treenaks> rob^: patent-wise: yes
[09:17] <bob2> yes, ubuntu cannot play encrypted dvds
[09:17] <bob2> and probably never will be able to
[09:17] <rob^> ok thanks.. just checking incase I had to change the faq
[09:17] <ajmitch> rob^: bug various governments to let us
[09:17] <rob^> (before freeze)
[09:17] <rob^> ajmitch, yeah
[09:18] <jsgotangco> start with au
[09:18] <jsgotangco> and the other au state
[09:20] <mvo> Mithrandir: that sounds like a bug in the notification-daemon. would you mind to file a bug?
[09:21] <Mithrandir> mvo: willdo
[09:23] <dholbach> morning seb128! :)
[09:24] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks
[09:26] <pitti> Hi seb128
[09:26] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[09:26] <dholbach> pitti: :)
[09:38] <sivang> hey dholbach , pitti , seb128 
[09:39] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:39] <dholbach> hey sivang 
[09:41] <ajmitch> hi sivang 
[09:45] <sivang> hey ajmitch 
[09:45] <sivang> ajmitch: 'sup ?
[09:46] <ajmitch> sivang: package fixing :)
[09:46] <sivang> ajmitch: cool, I need to let someone review my gnome-applets patch, lpi is almost all over the place :)
[09:47] <ajmitch> heh
[09:47] <sivang> jdub: I've forwarded you the reply I got from my IBM contact, let me know if this helps.
[09:51] <pef> hi
[09:51] <ajmitch> hi pef 
[09:55] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
[09:55] <dholbach> hey carstenh :)
[09:55] <carstenh> hi pitti, hi dholbach 
[09:55] <pitti> Kamion: will we get a new CD set today, or shall we go and mass-test  20050906.1 as preview candidate?
[09:56] <pitti> well, no, that would miss some gnome packages
[10:00] <daniels> pitti: security releases aren't automated at the embargo date, right?
[10:00] <pitti> daniels: no
[10:00] <daniels> pitti: good
[10:05] <mvo> Kamion: is it too late for http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/1972?
[10:08] <daniels> tritium: cool, thanks
[10:10] <tepsipakki> hmm, should the gnome-menu-names be translatable?
[10:10] <tepsipakki> applications, places, system
[10:13] <tepsipakki> I got a complaint from a colleague (fedora-fan) that the finnish translation is not complete, but he tried hoary and I'm now testing colony4-live
[10:13] <tepsipakki> and gnome-2.12 should have 100% complete Finnish translation..
[10:23] <seb128> hi pitti dholbach sivang mvo etc 
[10:23] <dholbach> hehe :)
[10:27] <seb128> mdz: around?
[10:30] <mdz> seb128: yes
[10:31] <seb128> mdz: gnumeric is not technically a part of GNOME but could we update from 1.5.4 to 1.5.5? Or after preview?
[10:31] <mdz> seb128: but only for a short                     
[10:31] <mdz> time
[10:32] <mdz> seb128: after preview, yes
[10:32] <seb128> mdz: btw we have GNOME 2.12.0 now, everything is uploaded
[10:32] <seb128> k, thanks
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: you rock
[10:33] <mdz> seb128: excellent
[10:33] <daniels> Kamion: damn your ability to discern the difference between the numbers 8 and 0
[10:33] <infinity> seb128 : Poke me violently if any of it isn't building.
[10:34] <torkel> seb128: is there any reason why gnome-screensaver is not compiled to look for xscreensaver hacks?
[10:34] <mvo> mdz: if you have time (probably after preview) it would be nice if you could have a look at #14842 and tell me what you think about it
[10:34] <seb128> torkel: because the focus is/was GNOME 2.12 and nobody spend some work on it to figure what to do for that
[10:35] <seb128> infinity: thanks  according to the build logs everything is fine
[10:35] <seb128> pitti, mdz: thanks :)
[10:35] <mdz> mvo: we could revert the rename
[10:36] <mdz> mvo: it was sort of pointless
[10:36] <seb128> jamesh: ping?
[10:36] <mvo> mdz: ok, that sounds good to me. shall I do that now or after preview?
[10:36] <torkel> seb128: there is a configure option for it. Rodrigo Moya added support for it in 0.0.10
[10:36] <mdz> mvo: after
[10:36] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[10:36] <seb128> torkel: I know, but I'm just too busy with GNOME 2.12.0 atm to work on this 
[10:36] <torkel> seb128: k
[10:36] <seb128> torkel: xscreensaver should be splitted too
[10:37] <seb128> torkel: to make a -data package
[10:37] <seb128> but that's for after 5.10
[10:38] <Mez> mdz: out of curiosity: seeing as breezy is already in UVF ... when can we start doing breezy backports, and will we be able to keep abckportinhg to hoary too (through direct upload or similar)
[10:38] <seb128> breezy backports ...
[10:38] <daniels> breezy isn't even released!!
[10:38] <seb128> what do you want to backport? there is no new distro
[10:38] <infinity> Mez : Where would we backport them FROM?
[10:39] <Mez> infinity: I'm on about after release when things start rolling for breezy +1
[10:40] <Mez> (aka - after breexy+1 starts - how long is it going to take for the infrastructure to be shuffled wound ot allow backports for breexy)
[10:41] <Mez> infinity: did you get round to bootstrapping mono for backports yet?
[10:45] <dholbach> infinity: could you give gnome-cups-manager back?
[10:48] <sivang> dholbach: are you going to work on #6224 ?
[10:49] <seb128> mdz: maybe we want to consider the patch from #14579 before preview? 
[10:50] <infinity> Mez : Ugh, no.  Been too busy with breezy work, sorry.  I have an email with detailed directions in my INBOX, right?
[10:50] <Mez> should have
[10:50] <Mez> I snt it 11 days ago
[10:50] <dholbach> sivang: not yet - i'm updating a bunch of packages
[10:54] <slomo> hi... do we have someone here who can help me with cvs? :) i need to checkout a whole repository with all changes until a given date
[10:54] <bob2> this doesn't sound like an ubuntu-development question
[10:55] <infinity> dholbach : Given back.
[10:55] <seb128> slomo: man cvs, / "-D"
[10:55] <dholbach> infinity: thank you
[10:55] <slomo> seb128: thanks, i'll try :)
[10:58] <ogra> bob2, convince elmo to close his april 1st bug to keep your pic in the screensaver :)
[10:58] <mdz> seb128: it looks mostly like refactoring. what is the substance of the change?
[10:59] <fabbione> hey mdz.. 
[10:59] <fabbione> still awake?
[10:59] <infinity> dholbach : Dude, fast-user-switch-applet tries to install files into the base system.  BAD.
[10:59] <infinity> dholbach : See the failed build logs.
[10:59] <mdz> Mez: backports for breezy should be possible in a similar timeline as uploads to breezy+1
[10:59] <dholbach> infinity: updated it already, thanks
[11:00] <mdz> fabbione: I spoke 20 seconds before you asked, so yes ;-)
[11:00] <fabbione> mdz: well you might as well woke up earlier than usual _P
[11:00] <fabbione> mdz: clearly i saw you are here...just surprised about the time ;)
[11:00] <mdz> I am about to go to sleep
[11:00] <fabbione> mdz: good night
[11:01] <mdz> back in 7
[11:01] <Mez> mdz: sweet - do we have a name for breezy+1 yet
[11:01] <mdz> night
[11:01] <fabbione> Mez: nonameyet
[11:01] <Mez> fabbione: :P
[11:05] <seb128> mdz: creating new group instead of using the existant one
[11:06] <seb128> mdz: if you have several instance of the same apps (ie: opening several epiphany windows or nautilus windows), the differents windows should not use the action group
[11:06] <ogra> night mdz
[11:06] <seb128> s/the action group/the same action group/
[11:07] <seb128> mdz: is that ok if I get an approval of jamesh on the patch too?
[11:14] <sivang> seb128: discussing lpi stuff, or other interesting GUI issues?
[11:14] <seb128> sivang: what?
[11:15] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, is it ok to remove "ubuntu" reference in PT translation of .desktop file of "hwdb-client"? Otherwise is too long: "Base de dados de dispositivos Ubuntu" I think.
[11:16] <\sh> morning
[11:16] <ogra> WaterSevenUb, yup, thats ok.... 
[11:16] <WaterSevenUb> ogra, thanks :)
[11:16] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: yes, it will be removed upstream anyway (right, ogra?)
[11:16] <ogra> WaterSevenUb, i'll do a de-branding upload after preview anyway
[11:17] <\sh> grmpf.
[11:19] <ajmitch> \sh: good morning ;)
[11:19] <\sh> hey ajmitch 
[11:28] <sivang> seb128: nothing sorry, I bursted into discussion. 
[11:31] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, hhhmm.... GIMP is prepared for translation of .desktop through the POT file but that little necessary string is not translated in this file:-) The main template of GIMP is not available in Rosetta so ... one should be patient until it is or can I send an updated .po file?
[11:31] <sivang> seb128: tell me how that looks? http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/lpint/gnome-applets/ , if you need a debdiff as well, I will make one.
[11:32] <mvo> carlos: gimp is not available in rosetta?
[11:33] <carlos> mvo, don't know, It should unless it has any problem with the automatic imports
[11:33] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: you could just update the pt.po file, does that sound ok?
[11:33] <\sh> hmmm..is it normal, that evolution takes a century to realize that a network is not available anymore?
[11:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok to upload http://err.no/patches/siege_2.61-1_2.61-1ubuntu1_etc_siegerc_ftbfs.diff ?
[11:33] <Lathiat> evolution sucks at thigns like that
[11:34] <seb128> sivang: seems to be ok, but priority is on the CD for this week and GNOME 2.12 atm, I'll work on this later
[11:34] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, well... it sounds ok to me if sounds ok to Carlos :)
[11:35] <\sh> Lathiat: any workarounds? socket timeout adjustments or something? 
[11:36] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, it's ok, Rosetta will get it with the next import
[11:37] <Lathiat> \sh: yeh use thunderbird ;p
[11:37] <Kamion> mvo: that synaptic change is post-preview now, I think
[11:38] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[11:38] <Kamion> Mithrandir: looks like post-preview
[11:38] <Kamion> damnit, if I paid *attention* to my live CD testbed it would help
[11:39] <dholbach> brb
[11:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.
[11:39] <Kamion> pitti: I doubt this morning's CDs will be final; we may get final ones out later today
[11:39] <pitti> Kamion: ok, thanks; I test them anyway to check for other issues
[11:40] <Kamion> (the browser start page)
[11:40] <daniels> Kamion: um, xorg -58 may be very, very helpful to have for preview
[11:41] <\sh> Lathiat: ah know...when kmail ;)
[11:41] <Kamion> daniels: yes, doors aren't quite shut yet
[11:41] <\sh> s/know/no/ ,-)
[11:42] <daniels> Kamion: okay, cool.  i think it should fix the most of these mysterious failed-to-create-config-file failures, although fucked if I know why they haven't been occurring since warty if the breakage I diagnosed is the root of all our problems (I just sledgehammer-fixed it).
[11:46] <\sh> daniels: did u know about those xterm enhancements of SuSE? (u-bugs: #11316)
[11:47] <daniels> \sh: that's why I assigned it to you ;) i don't really care too much about it, which is why I procrastinated fixing it
[11:48] <\sh> daniels: well...he should send me those app-defaults to have a look...
[11:48] <daniels> he did :P it's in the original submission
[11:48] <daniels> *charClass:  33:48,37:48,43:48,45-47:48,64:48,126:48,95:48
[11:51] <\sh> daniels: I know, but I'm lazy ;) I will include it and test it this afternoon..right now I'm too lazy ;)
[11:52] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, what about firefox.desktop, ok to send too?:) 
[11:54] <\sh> argl..whats up with my dsl
[11:56] <doko> mvo: the avm capi stuff doesn't work for me well. On the combined card, I get the ISDN connection, but no DSL connection
[11:58] <sivang> seb128: sure np, thanks. I'l ping you up if I do any changes to it until then. Regarding the CD - you mean testing the installer etc? 
[11:59] <seb128> cf topic
[11:59] <pitti> Kamion: initrd-tools fails to install on powerpc, which yields a nasty installer error; known issue or shall I file a bug?
[11:59] <infinity> Why is the installer installing it at all?
[11:59] <Kamion> pitti: the error message might say it's initrd-tools but it's lying
[12:00] <Kamion> (which is because the alternatives involved losing translations)
[12:00] <pitti> Kamion: the log complains that usplash was not found
[12:00] <Kamion> heh
[12:00] <Kamion> ok, will fix
[12:00] <pitti> but I guess that's unimportant
[12:00] <Kamion> that probably makes it fail
[12:00] <pitti> Kamion: you know the cause? or do you need any logs?
[12:01] <pitti> bootstrap.log doesn't actually look bad
[12:01] <Kamion> I know the cause, fixing, thanks
[12:01] <pitti> ok, great
[12:02] <daniels> Kamion: the xorg change, while small, localised, and obviously correct to mine eyes, hasn't been *rigorously* tested, so if you could ping me when you have images so I can test, that'd be great, thanks
[12:04] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[12:04] <pitti> Hi jdub
[12:04] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[12:04] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[12:04] <pitti> it's always refreshing to see you :-)
[12:04] <bob2> jdub: plug in the webcame!
[12:04] <ajmitch> a good jolt to wake us up :)
[12:04] <jdub> bob2: ha ha
[12:04] <jdub> bob2: didn't bring it
[12:05] <bob2> jdub: bah
[12:05] <jdub> but you are on the big screen at the sydney gnome release party :-)
[12:05] <jdub> SAY HELLO
[12:05] <bob2> jdub: I want to party vicariously
[12:06] <daniels>  __  __ _____ _     ____   ___  _   _ ____  _   _ _____   _  _   
[12:06] <daniels> |  \/  | ____| |   | __ ) / _ \| | | |  _ \| \ | | ____| | || |  
[12:06] <daniels> | |\/| |  _| | |   |  _ \| | | | | | | |_) |  \| |  _|   | || |_ 
[12:06] <daniels> | |  | | |___| |___| |_) | |_| | |_| |  _ <| |\  | |___  |__   _|
[12:06] <daniels> |_|  |_|_____|_____|____/ \___/ \___/|_| \_\_| \_|_____|    |_|  
[12:06] <daniels> 
[12:07] <daniels>  _  __   _______ 
[12:07] <daniels> | | \ \ / /  ___|
[12:07] <daniels> | |  \ V /| |_   
[12:07] <daniels> | |___| | |  _|  
[12:07] <daniels> |_____|_| |_|    
[12:07] <daniels> 
[12:07] <daniels> er, whoops, thought this was a rather different -- significantly less on-topic -- channel.  sorry. :)
[12:07] <daniels> but my point holds.
[12:07] <pitti> daniels: "lyf"?
[12:08] <daniels> pitti: ppl wot uze 4 r mre lkly 2 uze 'lyf' 2
[12:08] <lifeless> rotfl
[12:08] <pitti> daniels: 4h, 1 s33
[12:08] <bob2>       _      _                _                            
[12:08] <bob2>   ___| |_ __| |     __ _  ___| |_   _   _  ___  _   _ _ __ 
[12:08] <bob2>  / __| __/ _` |    / _` |/ _ \ __| | | | |/ _ \| | | | '__|
[12:08] <bob2> | (__| || (_| |_  | (_| |  __/ |_  | |_| | (_) | |_| | |   
[12:08] <bob2>  \___|\__\__,_( )  \__, |\___|\__|  \__, |\___/ \__,_|_|   
[12:08] <bob2>               |/   |___/            |___/                  
[12:08] <lifeless> HELLO
[12:08] <bob2>               _                         
[12:08] <bob2> __      _____| |__   ___ __ _ _ __ ___  
[12:08] <bob2> \ \ /\ / / _ \ '_ \ / __/ _` | '_ ` _ \ 
[12:08] <bob2>  \ V  V /  __/ |_) | (_| (_| | | | | | |
[12:08] <lifeless> ...
[12:08] <bob2>   \_/\_/ \___|_.__/ \___\__,_|_| |_| |_|
[12:08] <daniels> (what have I started.)
[12:08] <bob2> 
[12:09] <pitti> Hi lifeless, welcome to the channel of love
[12:09] <lifeless> apparnetly :)
[12:09] <shackan> what's up this morning ?
[12:09] <lifeless> a party
[12:09] <daniels> figlet
[12:09] <dholbach> GNOME 2.12 - woohoo :)
[12:09] <shackan> is it "let your 4 yo son play with the keyboard" day ?
[12:09] <Mithrandir> jdub: ENOBEER!
[12:10] <Mithrandir> (at least here)
[12:10] <\sh> dholbach & seb128: congrats you rock :) 
[12:10] <dholbach> \sh: thank you :)
[12:10] <pitti> Kamion: I now get a question with a list of available kernels; is that just a consequence of the second try (after the failed first attempt) or a genuine new bug?
[12:10] <marcin_ant> shackan, it's propably "let your 2 yo old doughter and 12 yo old son play with the keyboard" day ;)
[12:11] <shackan> good morning marcin_ant 
[12:11] <marcin_ant> shackan, yo
[12:11] <marcin_ant> shackan, I'm up (at last)
[12:11] <shackan>  I see
[12:11] <pitti> Kamion: probably the former, so nevermind
[12:12] <sivang> OMG, daniels what the hell? :)
[12:13] <sivang> daniels: how do you make thos big letters?
[12:14] <JaneW> bob2!
[12:14] <bob2> janew!
[12:14] <pitti> sivang: figlet
[12:14] <JaneW> :)!
[12:14] <daniels> bob2: clearly, the correct reponse is /exec -o figlet janew\!
[12:14] <bob2> JaneW: better start work on your visa ;)
[12:14] <sivang> hAPPY GNOME RELEASE DAY EVERYBODY!
[12:14] <JaneW> I am, I am!
[12:15] <JaneW> bob2: but I hear Canadian's are more welcoming of South Africans than Australians are :P
[12:15] <JaneW> bob2: and the visa form is only 2 pages long (not *11*)
[12:15] <bob2> JaneW: hey, I offered to smuggle you in a suitcase if claire gave me a round the world ticket
[12:16] <JaneW> ;)
[12:16] <bob2> clearly .au is 11/2 times more awesome than canadia
[12:16] <daniels> yes, because clearly what all the Australians need is *more* time on a plane.
[12:16] <jdub> seb128: did you see fer's releases?
[12:17] <Mithrandir> blender is warn-o-rama
[12:18] <spayne> seb128: i got the Clearlooks Metacity problem sorted
[12:18] <spayne> ogra: i got the Clearlooks Metacity problem sorted
[12:19] <ogra> spayne, what wa it ?
[12:19] <ogra> was even
[12:20] <spayne> ogra: I had to reinstall from Colony 4 - i think it was an Xorg problem
[12:20] <spayne> ogra: as some other problems have gone as well
[12:21] <seb128> jdub: on #commits only, is there any tarball somewhere?
[12:21] <Kamion> hunger: making jokes with customs officers is strictly for those who don't actually mind whether they get into the country or not
[12:21] <spayne> ogra: i think it was the Xorg installed with C3 that caused it
[12:21] <seb128> spayne: what wasit?
[12:22] <spayne> seb128: well, i don't actually know but i suspect it was Xorg because the system which had the latest packages
[12:22] <spayne> seb128: transparencies didn't work and the metacity had this problem
[12:22] <seb128> k
[12:23] <spayne> seb128: but thanks anyway ;-)
[12:23] <seb128> jdub: that's ok now
[12:24] <\sh> daniels: this charClass is it: double-click and highlite, or mouse-hover and highlite?
[12:27] <pitti_live> ogra: hm, it seems that thunderbird is not on the live CD; I thought it was?
[12:28] <ogra> pitti_live, it is in ship
[12:28] <Kamion> pitti_live: yes, the kernel question is a consequence of the debconf priority being dropped due to the earlier failure; not a bug
[12:39] <hunger> Kamion: I fully agree... I never joke while in an airport. Not even about fellow travelers:-)
[12:41] <Kamion> Hmph. I have a working live CD with most things happening on tty1 (yay) but for some reason X can't start (boo)
[12:44] <pitti> Kamion: hm, which arch? I just tested amd64 and powerpc, both worked fine (modulo the shutdown vt issue)
[12:45] <Diziet> If I ask the submitter of a bug for more information, I put the bug in NEEDINFO.  Should I also assign it to the submitter ?
[12:46] <infinity> No.
[12:46] <infinity> Unless you also expect the submitter to upload a fix.
[12:46] <Diziet> Right.
[12:48] <Kamion> pitti: i386; it works fine without my hacks
[12:48] <Kamion> pitti: the shutdown vt issue is what I'm working on
[12:58] <Diziet> Bugzilla really does encourage vacuous bug reports.
[01:04] <Kamion> Grr, and when I turn on gdm's debug support it all works. I think it must be a timing thing.
[01:08] <Diziet> I assume it's not rude to refer people to http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html.
[01:09] <Kamion> not if done politely :-)
[01:09] <Diziet> :-).
[01:10] <daniels> Kamion: did you see the if (!first) suggestion for gdm?
[01:10] <ogra> Diziet, also https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs
[01:10] <jsgotangco> daniels, 2 X updates in less than 2 hours? im impressed =)
[01:10] <Kamion> daniels: yeah, but it seems orthogonal to the thing mdz asked me to look at
[01:11] <Kamion> ogra: isn't that for people doing bug triage, not for people reporting bugs?
[01:11] <ogra> Kamion, its called helping with bugs ;)
[01:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: how do you feel about breaking UVF for blender?  it fixes the FTBFS.
[01:17] <Diziet> HelpingWithBugs> Ah, useful, thank you.  Kamion: for me to read, not for the submitters :-).
[01:17] <ogra> Mithrandir, ftbfs ? 
[01:17] <daniels> Kamion: hmm?  it seems to wait until X has finished until gdm itself shuts down, which would presumably fix the problem ...
[01:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: fails to build from source.
[01:17] <ogra> Mithrandir, i know what that means...
[01:17] <ogra> when blender entered edubuntu it built ? 
[01:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: no longer
[01:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14594
[01:18] <daniels> Kamion: (if the problem is, as mdz says, gdm dies and switches to vt1, then X dies and switches to vt2)
[01:18] <infinity> Failed during -autotest.
[01:18] <Kamion> Diziet: ah :)
[01:18] <Diziet> Those standard responses suggest to read a GNOME HOWTO which links directly to Gnome's bugzilla.  Surely this will result in misdirected reports ?
[01:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't object, but after preview please
[01:19] <ogra> Mithrandir, oh, ok ... if Kamion agrees...
[01:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, post-preview.
[01:19] <Kamion> daniels: yes, but I'm working on trying to make the startup sane (i.e. use tty1)
[01:19] <Kamion> daniels: either approach would fix the problem, and ideally we'd do both
[01:19] <Diziet> Do we have a `bugzilla helper' of our own ?
[01:20] <Diziet> If not then our standard responses should probably refer to SGT's essay and not to the Gnome pages.
[01:20] <Kamion> daniels: making the startup sane would mean that X would switch back to vt1 rather than vt2 which would resolve the clash with gdm
[01:21] <ogra> Diziet, we want our own page one day... there was just nobody finding the time yet
[01:21] <daniels> Kamion: right, which would be best from my angle at least
[01:21] <daniels> Kamion: with my current, er, arrangement, I don't have time to be attacking complex and hairy bugs like this
[01:21] <Diziet> ogra: Right.  Mind if I change the wiki page BugResponses to refer to SGT's essay instead of the Gnome one ?
[01:22] <ogra> Diziet, please let this approve by mdz, he choose to link the gnome page there on advice of seb128_ 
[01:23] <Diziet> ogra: OK.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: http://err.no/patches/unifont_1.0-1_1.0-1ubuntu1_builddep_ftbfs.diff ; ok to upload after preview is out?
[01:38] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sure
[01:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm just nagging you because mdz's mail to -devel said everything had to be approved; I can ask later if you get interrupted by it.
[01:39] <ogra> Mithrandir, or collect a list to mail it ? ;)
[01:40] <Mithrandir> ogra: bah, I don't like mail
[01:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no, that's fine
[01:40] <ogra> heh
[01:40] <Kamion> I'm capable of ignoring IRC while working if necessary ;)
[01:41] <mvo> is installing onto s-ata (with both p-ata and s-ata drives in the machine) supposed to work? it hangs here after the first reboot ..
[01:42] <Kamion> infinity: what was the nature of germinate's conniption fit? (qt-x11-free)
[01:42] <Kamion> at this point seed workarounds are probably better than uploads
[01:42] <bob2> I cannot believe #1940 is still open
[01:43] <Kamion> mvo: I believe that's one of the hard cases in hotplug
[01:44] <mvo> Kamion: hm, do we have a open bug for it?
[01:44] <Kamion> mvo: dunno, I know that at least some of those cases were fixed in hoary
[01:44] <Kamion> isn't that what we held the hoary preview for, more or less?
[01:44] <Kamion> infinity: is vernadsky hooker ross yellow still the right list of buildds for daily d-i builds?
[01:45] <mvo> Kamion: hm, I think that was a different problem 
[01:45] <mvo> (not sure though)
[01:52] <mvo> Kamion: it looks like http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1750 (but I didn't changed the bios between cdrom boot and install). it seems like grub always give hda -> (hd0) even if the bios boots from s-ata first :/
[01:53] <Lathiat> mine says that too altho it works fine
[01:54] <Kamion> mvo: unfortunately I know of no fix, and it's even more difficult without appropriate hardware; if you want to investigate that one, you're very welcome
[01:54] <pef> a diff.gz of a source package contains autotools-dev stuff, can I do something ? (I'm packaging a new version)
[01:56] <mvo> Kamion: ok, I'll have a look 
[01:57] <Mithrandir> seb128_: you're probably already aware of it, but there's a new gnomemeeting out which should solve 11960
[01:58] <seb128_> Mithrandir: new gnomemeeting requires a new pwlib which is not packaged by Debian yet. And I don't use it, so I don't want to push that now ... feel free to do it if you use them and are ok with the new versions
[01:58] <Mithrandir> seb128_: I've used them in the past, at least, and that bug is at least marked as RC, so..
[01:59] <seb128_> Mithrandir: how is it RC?
[01:59] <Mithrandir> seb128_: hence my "marked as RC" instead of "is RC".
[02:00] <seb128_> yeah, but he's "major" with no milestone ... is that "marked as RC"? Anyway we will update gnomemeeting but after preview probably
[02:01] <Mithrandir> seb128_: well, it's one of the bugs which show up when I click the "RC bugs" search in bugzilla.
[02:01] <Mithrandir> seb128_: anyway, if you are on it and will fix in a bit, that's fine and I'll leave it to you
[02:02] <tepsipakki> hmm, any idea why I get MD5Sum mismatch from Packages.gz on our mirror although the mirror was just synced and the sums are the same?
[02:03] <tepsipakki> that's apt-get update complaining
[02:03] <seb128_> Mithrandir: right, the RC query match "major" too. Feel free to tackle it if you want, that's fine with me. If you don't we will get gnomemeeting updated before 5.10 anyway, so it'll get fixed
[02:05] <infinity> Kamion : That was just bringing back a patch that got dropped in the last QT upload.
[02:07] <infinity> Kamion : And yes, vernadsky(i386), ross(powerpc), yellow(amd64), hooker(ia64) are the current DI daily machines.
[02:07] <mvo> tepsipakki: are you behind a proxy/transparent-proxy?
[02:08] <Kamion> infinity: thanks, I like to check from time to time
[02:08] <tepsipakki> mvo: no
[02:08] <infinity> Kamion : Anyhow, the QT upload should be harmless, it only touched control.
[02:09] <infinity> Kamion : OTOH, germinate may have stopped fitting if we finally removed all the obsolete GL/GLU stuff from universe.  The previous uploads were operating under the assumption that we only want (primary) dependencies on the One True Mesa in main.
[02:09] <Kamion> you said germinate had a conniption fit, I was wondering what it was
[02:09] <Kamion> since we have some germinate workarounds in the seeds already
[02:09] <infinity> Kamion : And Qt is the only package in main that's regressed since those fixes were uploaded.
[02:10] <infinity> Kamion : It had connptions in the past.  TBH, I'm not sure if it still is having any.  (basically, bringing in more mesa stuff than we want, or trying to, because libqt3-mt-dev depended on old xlibmesa/*xorg* packages..)
[02:11] <Kamion> ok
[02:16] <tepsipakki> had to sync the mirror again, now it doesn't complain anymore..
[02:17] <tepsipakki> let the installations roll ;)
[02:19] <pitti> argh
[02:19] <pitti> mvo: ping
[02:20] <mvo> pitti: pong
[02:20] <pitti> mvo: just doing a hoary->breezy upgrade test (insert breezy CD, click automatic upgrade)
[02:20] <pitti> mvo: on upgrading libc6, I get the "Do you with to restart services" question
[02:20] <mvo> Kamion: test-install of current daily on amd64 w. sata works here (modulo the grub problem I'm looking at right now)
[02:21] <mvo> pitti: ok
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: but I don't see it unless I open the terminal
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: I had the terminal already open, though
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: will this just block forever until the user opens the terminal window and presses Enter?
[02:21] <mvo> pitti: hrm, right. it will open the terminal after ~30sec of no chnages on the terminal. but that's still pretty bad
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: ok, but that's at least a good fallback; thanks
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: much better than just sitting around indefinitely
[02:22] <mvo> pitti: do you think we could use debconf for the prompting?
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: it reacts to debconf?
[02:22] <mvo> pitti: *ick*, the hoary version may not have the timeout-handling yet
[02:22] <mvo> pitti: yes, it handles debconf with the gtk frontend
[02:22] <mvo> much nicer indeed
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: ah, ok
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: so eventually we should convert the libc question to debconf
[02:23] <Kamion> is attempting to use debconf at that point safe?
[02:23] <Kamion> (not saying it isn't, just checking)
[02:23] <Mithrandir> yeah, should be fine
[02:23] <pitti> at that point, the new libc is already fully installed
[02:23] <Kamion> k
[02:23] <pitti> Kamion: hoever, the apt process itself still uses the old one
[02:23] <Kamion> it still needs a fallback in case debconf is not installed, since libc6 is below debconf in the dependency chain
[02:24] <pitti> but since debconf communicates over a socket, that shouldn't lead to problems, or should it?
[02:25] <pitti> Kamion: hm, the fallback could just be to restart services (it's the default answer)
[02:25] <Kamion> debconf communicates over stdio not a socket
[02:25] <Kamion> and it is launched from the libc6 postinst
[02:25] <Kamion> or would be, if you used debconf there
[02:26] <pitti> anyway, I file a bug for later
[02:26] <Kamion> as in, debconf will be started up effectively at the start of the libc6 postinst
[02:26] <Kamion> and libc6.postinst will be run as a debconf confmodule
[02:28] <mjg59> Kamion: So, I think we tracked down the problem with the missing sata drive
[02:32] <pitti> jbailey: did you disable bz email? You should have been in CC for two bug mails, bug I always get "Excluding:  jbailey@ubuntu.com" on the confirmation page (#14889)
[02:33] <jbailey> pitti: I've disabled it for ones where it's assigned to me.  It should send them when it's CC:'d
[02:33] <jbailey> Which bug number?
[02:33] <pitti> jbailey: ah, ok, then it's not a bz bug
[02:33] <pitti> jbailey: #14889
[02:33] <jbailey> Wow, 15k bugzilla mails.
[02:34] <jbailey> Insane.
[02:34] <jbailey> pitti: Basically with all the cc:'s and such, my email gets swamped making it useless, so I rely on queries to show me what's changed since the last time I looked at the list.
[02:34] <jbailey> Order by last modified is sweet. =)
[02:37] <jbailey> pitti: To quickly answer the question here (I'll do so in the bug mail as well), nothing in Debian's "base" can use debconf.
[02:37] <zul> slacker
[02:37] <jbailey> Since debconf itself is not part of base.
[02:37] <pitti> jbailey: ah, right
[02:37] <pitti> jbailey: but we could use it if it is already installed?
[02:37] <jbailey> IF we don't have that constraint in Ubuntu, I'd love to convert it.
[02:38] <lamont> jbailey: but if present, you could use it...
[02:38] <Kamion> jbailey: (it's possible to use debconf optionally)
[02:38] <jbailey> We could, but then it's two code paths to maintain.
[02:38] <pitti> jbailey: basically we have the same, but we could check for it
[02:38] <jbailey> We (the Debian glibc team) had decided not to do this in order to encourage people to put debconf into base.
[02:38] <lamont> yeah, and 90% of the use would be down the debconf path, and get pre-prompted, etc,
[02:38] <Kamion> debconf is in base, actually, even in Debian; it's just not in required
[02:38] <jbailey> required, right.
[02:38] <Kamion> and actually, with new debootstrap it moved into required, although it's not clear whether it will stay there
[02:39] <jbailey> Exactly.  In practice it would be always used, which is sucky.
[02:39] <Kamion> but having libc6 depend on it will always be sticky, no matter what
[02:39] <jbailey> It's tempting to just add a depends on it, and let people slug it out on debian-devel. =)
[02:39] <Kamion> I really don't think it's safe for libc6 to depend on debconf
[02:39] <ajmitch> jbailey: no need to incite another flamewar
[02:39] <Kamion> way too circular
[02:40] <Kamion> that libc6 <-> libdb1-compat depends was bad enough
[02:40] <jbailey> Kamion: I don't see how it's any worse than depending on grep, sed, or awk (all of which we do)
[02:40] <Kamion> but debconf depends on a slew of other stuff
[02:40] <Kamion> jbailey: debconf isn't essential; grep, sed, awk are
[02:40] <jbailey> joeyh had suggested cdebconf
[02:40] <Kamion> cdebconf isn't up to the task
[02:40] <Kamion> not yet, at any rate
[02:40] <Kamion> maybe one day, but don't hold your breath too long
[02:40] <jbailey> Right.
[02:41] <jbailey> So I'll put this hack into Ubuntu it you want, but it likely wont' go into the Debian apckage.
[02:41] <Kamion> grep, sed, awk are all packaged such that they work while unconfigured
[02:41] <Kamion> it's not so easy to do that with debconf
[02:41] <jbailey> The solution so far for the installer was that it runs in non-interactive mode.
[02:41] <Kamion> and in fact sometimes it will definitely fail while unconfigured (although it falls back relatively safely to other things)
[02:42] <Kamion> worse, if you don't Depends: debconf, or if you have a circular dependency on debconf, you can't guarantee that debconf will be configured when your postinst is run
[02:43] <jbailey> Right, it would need to be setup to work in an unconfigured state.
[02:43] <Kamion> which can't be done at the moment because perl-modules doesn't work while unconfigured
[02:44] <Kamion> at least, not across major perl upgrades; which is pretty much unfixable as long as perl-base/perl-modules/perl are separate packages (there's always a point where perl-base is at 5.8 but perl-modules is still at 5.6, say)
[02:44] <jbailey> Right.
[02:44] <jbailey> And cdebconf is too far away to get something useful out of it.
[02:45] <sivang> Kamion: nice to finally look at garminate's code , and the funny readme there. 
[02:45] <pitti> jbailey: ok, if it's not feasible, just close it; for the breezy->breezy+1 upgrade, the problem is mitigated anyway by the automatic console opening
[02:46] <Kamion> cdebconf (a) has substantially lower code quality than debconf in many places; (b) is not nearly so well-tested; (c) has explicitly differing semantics in a few places (e.g. seen+backup handling); (d) isn't up to parity on frontend support
[02:46] <Kamion> sivang: the README is Scott's, not mine
[02:46] <Kamion> I've never got round to updating it
[02:47] <jbailey> pitti: It's not that it's not feasible.  I just worry about the untested code path in the future.
[02:47] <jbailey> AS I said, I'm willing to hack it for Ubuntu, I just likely won't put it into the Debian bits.
[02:47] <jbailey> I'd rather spend the spare time trying to make cdebconf work and solve the problem properly.
[02:51] <Kamion> 2004-04-24 01:20:37 GMT Scott James Remnant <scott@netsplit.com>        patch-3
[02:51] <Kamion>     Summary:
[02:51] <Kamion>       add README for LaMont
[02:52] <Keybuk> yeah, I just don't remember it being a "funny" one
[02:52] <jbailey> Kamion: Sure, but this is a sucky situation for other required packages.  Debian policy now has 'should' for the debconf requirement.  It needs to be made to work.  (which is why I say I'd rather spend my time in Debian doing so rather than hacking workarounds)
[02:53] <Keybuk> though I guess my ordinary writing style could be considered funny by some ;)
[02:54] <ivoks> daniels: ping
[02:55] <Kamion> jbailey: of course, it's always fine (and preferable) for required packages not to prompt at all where they can get away with it. :)
[02:55] <daniels> ivoks: mmm?
[02:56] <ivoks> daniels: i need you for a second...
[02:56] <daniels> ivoks: ...
[02:56] <ivoks> daniels: one user told me that after installing hoary he got 1900x1600 resolution with 60hz refresh rate
[02:56] <daniels> ivoks: right ...
[02:56] <daniels> ivoks: let me guess -- amd64?
[02:57] <ivoks> daniels: eh.. don't know arch...
[02:57] <ivoks> daniels: will ask
[02:57] <daniels> ivoks: that happens on amd64, it sucks
[02:57] <ivoks> daniels: it's CRT, so 60hz is.. uhm :)
[02:57] <ivoks> daniels: ok
[02:58] <ivoks> daniels: thanks for your time and knowledge :)
[02:58] <daniels> np
[02:59] <daniels> time to make some soup to freeze and head to bed
[03:04] <tepsipakki> is this the right place to ask about U. Foundation and it's funding?
[03:04] <tepsipakki> my boss is a real ass(tm), and needs convincing
[03:05] <tepsipakki> oh, pardon my language
[03:05] <womble> tepsipakki: It's probably as good as place as any to ask.
[03:05] <tepsipakki> ok
[03:06] <pitti> mvo: did you see the mail on u-d about the untrusted language support packages? Does that problem really still exist? ("Problems during installing support for spanish language")
[03:06] <Diziet> Is there anyone who would like an extra pair of hands to help with something ?  I'm running out of todo list ...
[03:07] <Kamion> pitti: I was going to have a quick look at that today, but if somebody would like to check if that's reproducible that would be good
[03:07] <pitti> Kamion: I try at my next install, I'm currently doing an upgrade
[03:07] <lamont> pitti: if it's other than them hitting the window of a couple minutes every half hour...
[03:07] <mvo> Kamion, pitti: I have seen it, I can try to reproduce it now
[03:08] <pitti> mvo: I will also try, maybe it was really just a mirror race
[03:08] <Kamion> (please fire stuff in Diziet's direction if you're overloaded!)
[03:08] <pitti> Diziet: indeed I have something - you recently dealt with the dpkg conffile bug, right?
[03:08] <pitti> Diziet: on upgrade, I still the the Xman question
[03:09] <pitti> Diziet: (and Xmore, etc)
[03:09] <pitti> Diziet: the patch hasn't been applied yet? or doesn't it work?
[03:09] <Diziet> pitti: mdz decided it was too close to preview freeze to put it in.
[03:09] <Diziet> I've tested it myself and it does make the questions go away.
[03:09] <pitti> Diziet: ok, fine; will we see it for the final?
[03:09] <pitti> cool
[03:09] <Diziet> I'm certainly hoping so, but you'd have to talk to mdz :-).
[03:10] <pitti> ok, thanks
[03:10] <tepsipakki> well, on the press-release it is said that Mark made the initial funding, but what happens when that is spent, who or what is responsible for funding the Foundation?
[03:10] <tepsipakki> (duh, took a while to write)
[03:11] <bob2> emailing info@canonical.com might be simpler
[03:11] <tepsipakki> heh
[03:11] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
[03:17] <sivang> Kamion: in your scripts building images, does make -C britney/update_out expects the local mirror at /update_out ?
[03:17] <Diziet> I'd be happy to help.
[03:19] <Kamion> sivang: no, update_out's full of code
[03:19] <Kamion> sivang: at least provided you built the arch config from configs/devel
[03:21] <pitti> Diziet: do you happen to know about ethernet drivers? I got #14802 assigned for some reason, but I'm relatively clueless about it
[03:21] <mvo> Kamion: is it a known problem that resizing a ext3 partition does not show a progress bar? I remember a bugreport about it
[03:21] <pitti> Diziet: but nevermind if that is nothing for you
[03:22] <mvo> ping mjg59 
[03:23] <mvo> Kamion: thanks :)
[03:23] <Diziet> pitti: I can try and debug ethernet drivers if you like; not that it's my specialist topic or anything.  Tell you what, I'll take the buck and see where I get.
[03:24] <pitti> Diziet: this case is in fact a good use case for an "expert" list :-)
[03:24] <Kamion> (https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?keywords=installer&resolution=--- is the list of open installer bugs, FWIW.)
[03:24] <Kamion> Mostly I need to fix up the OEM installer harder and do something with the various recently-opened partitioning bugs.
[03:24] <bddebian> Morning
[03:24] <pitti> Hi bddebian 
[03:25] <Kamion> well, s/I need/somebody needs/
[03:25] <bddebian> Howdy pitti
[03:25] <pitti> Diziet: I think Kamion's bugs are certainly more important, though :-)
[03:25] <Diziet> pitt: Did you ask on #ubuntu-kernel about that ethernet driver bug ?  It looks like the kind of thing that someone will have seen before.
[03:25] <pitti> nope, I didn't touch the bug at all 
[03:26] <Diziet> k: Blimey, what a buglist.
[03:26] <bddebian> pitti: Is 7.5.8 gonna stay for postgre or will the default be 8 for breezy?
[03:26] <ajmitch> morning bddebian 
[03:26] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch.
[03:26] <pitti> daniels: after hoary->breezy upgrade I get the dreaded "Do you want the X or Gnome keyboard settings" dialog
[03:26] <Kamion> Things like #14204, #14236, #14564 are urgent to at least diagnose
[03:26] <Kamion> Diziet: tell me about it
[03:26] <pitti> oh, he is not here any more
[03:27] <pitti> bddebian: "postgresql" is just a transition package; postgresql-8.0 is available in main
[03:27] <pitti> bddebian: the transition package does a clean hoary->breezy upgrade, it is not suitable for installing from scratch
[03:28] <bddebian> pitti: Hmm.  Well my problem is with building postgresql-plruby which depends postgresql < 7.5.  Am I safe with 7.5.8 or should I try to build with 8?  Or do you want to take care of it? ;-)
[03:29] <Diziet> kamion: Some of those will require some to and fro with the submitters.  But I'm happy to take whichever of them you want rid of.
[03:29] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[03:30] <Diziet> The NTFS one should be quite easy for me to reproduce here.
[03:31] <pitti> mvo: when installing/upgrading without network, I only see "English" in the language selector, although there are more packs on the CD; known bug?
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: ah, I suppose you check for "language-support-*" and not for language-pack-*"?
[03:32] <mvo> pitti: yes, it checks what language are installable
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: with CD only that is quite confusing
[03:32] <mvo> pitti: IIRC it checks for both
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: not for me
[03:32] <bddebian> Any of you going to happen to look at Malone bugs too?  There are several main bugs on there also.
[03:32] <mvo> pitti: right. what should it do instead?
[03:33] <pitti> mvo: well, check for both pack and support and offer the installable ones
[03:33] <pitti> mvo: for the missing support packages there shoud not be a checkbox, of course
[03:34] <mjg59> Kamion: Does the installer actually include ahci.ko?
[03:34] <mvo> pitti: ok, I'm doing a install without network right now and I'll check it then (in spanish, it looks "interessting" for me :)
[03:34] <pitti> but at least I could install the translations
[03:34] <pitti> mvo: I do a german installation at the next opportunity, to check for the auth bug
[03:37] <bddebian> pitti: Are you ignoring me or do you just not want to answer that question? ;-)
[03:37] <pitti> bddebian: sorry, was busy
[03:37] <bddebian> pitti: NP.  I am just a nudge. :-)
[03:37] <pitti> bddebian: you shuold not depend on "postgresql" in the first place; depend on the matching postgresql-X.Y version instead
[03:38] <pitti> bddebian: since that is a server package, you need to build it for a particular server, or spit out packages for all available ones
[03:38] <Kamion> mjg59: <cjwatson@riva /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.12>$ for x in *.udeb; do dpkg -c "$x" | grep ahci; done
[03:38] <Kamion> mjg59: (i.e. "no")
[03:38] <Kamion> <cjwatson@riva /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.12>$
[03:38] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok. That may be our problem, then.
[03:38] <pitti> bddebian: I recently did it for "plr", maybe you want to steal some ideas from it
[03:38] <mjg59> Kamion: We should be including ahci, and ahci should be loaded before ata_piix is
[03:38] <bddebian> pitti: Well "I" don't but the package does. :-)  OK, thanks.
[03:39] <Kamion> Diziet: if you have an NTFS partition handy, you're certainly more than welcome to take that one
[03:39] <pitti> bddebian: in any case server-side extensions need serious rework, or you limit them to build for one particular version (8.0 preferably)
[03:39] <pitti> sjoerd: do you have a recent hal and dbus running on debian? does h-d-m react to new/removed devices?
[03:39] <Kamion> bddebian: I think I've looked for installer bugs in Malone precisely once ever
[03:40] <bddebian> Kamion: Well get to it. ;-)
[03:40] <Kamion> mjg59: I assume that should go in usb-modules, like it sounds?
[03:40] <Kamion> bddebian: main bugs should be filed in Bugzilla at the moment; then they will actually get to me.
[03:40] <mjg59> Kamion: No, it's a SATA driver
[03:40] <sjoerd> pitti: debian doesn't have python2.4-gnome2 yet, so i don't know
[03:40] <Kamion> mjg59: oh, ok, sata-modules then
[03:40] <bddebian> Kamion: I know but I have been trying to triage bugs on Malone and there are a TON of main bugs.
[03:40] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, ok
[03:41] <pitti> mvo: would you be fine to be the auto-assignee for language-selector, btw?
[03:41] <Diziet> Aaargh, I hate bugzilla.  I edited the wrong bug.
[03:41] <mjg59> Kamion: But then I don't know which one the installer will try to load first
[03:42] <Diziet> Or did I ?
[03:42] <Kamion> mjg59: it's up to hotplug
[03:42] <Kamion> not the installer
[03:42] <Diziet> No, bugzilla is just teleporting me away like it does and I'm unduly alarmed.
[03:42] <elmo> Diziet: bugzilla has a habit of dump you into the next bug in the list of bugs you were looking at after you commit a change 
[03:42] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah, right. Nngh.
[03:42] <mjg59> Kamion: This is almost certainly going to result in pain
[03:43] <Kamion> mjg59: can we tell the difference between machines that work with ata_piix and machines that don't by PCI id?
[03:44] <Kamion> bddebian: I honestly don't have time to poll for bugs in a bug tracker that isn't properly set up yet to mail bug reports to the proper people
[03:44] <Kamion> when it notifies me of my bugs, I'll pay attention to them
[03:44] <mjg59> Kamion: No
[03:45] <mjg59> Kamion: It's the same chip. It may be in one of two modes, depending on how the BIOS has programmed it and how it's wired up
[03:45] <mvo> pitti: yes
[03:45] <mjg59> ahci should always fail to load if it can't drive it
[03:45] <mjg59> The same doesn't seem to be true of ata_piix
[03:45] <pitti> Kamion: can you please set mvo as the default assignee for language-selector?
[03:46] <mvo> pitti, Kamion: I can do this myself, give me a minute
[03:46] <bddebian> Kamion: Understood, I am just frustrated with trying to understand what to do with those bugs.  I originally started moving them to bugzilla but it sounds like long-term goal is to use Malone anyway.  Just ignore me, I'm venting. :-)
[03:46] <pitti> mvo: oh, we can do that? how?
[03:46] <ogra> pitti, s/we/mvo/
[03:46] <Kamion> Diziet: (I'm assuming you meant to assign #14236 to you, so did so)
[03:46] <pitti> ogra: ah, nice
[03:46] <sivang> mvo: saw my addition tho the bug report about adding languages?
[03:46] <mvo> pitti: I asked mdz for various default assignement and he gave me compedit :)
[03:46] <ogra> pitti, he's privileged :)
[03:46] <Diziet> k: Yes, so I see.  Bugzilla was just confusing me gratuitously.
[03:47] <mvo> sivang: yes, haven't had time for it yet
[03:47] <pitti> ogra: /me bows :-)
[03:47] <ogra> pitti, me too for our new upcoming bugmaster *g*
[03:47] <\sh> ogra: bddebian? ,-)
[03:47] <ogra> \sh, mvo :)
[03:47] <ajmitch> ogra: you're handing it over to mvo ?
[03:48] <ogra> ajmitch, yup... done...
[03:48] <sivang> who is our new bugmaster?
[03:48] <ajmitch> yay, someone else to bug ;)
[03:48] <\sh> ogra: let bddebian do it ;) he knows now malone and how to triage and he will understand bugzilla afap
[03:48] <mvo> pitti: spanish install (without net, cd-only) worked without problems here, I'll answer the mail now
[03:48] <ogra> mvo, perfect !
[03:49] <pitti> mvo: ok, then that's certainly a mirror race then?
[03:49] <pitti> mvo: oh, wait
[03:49] <pitti> mvo: I thought this occurred when downloading language-support-en? so, with network?
[03:49] <pitti> mvo: s/en/es/
[03:49] <bddebian> Hey, what am I getting volunteered for now?? :-)
[03:49] <mvo> pitti: one problem may be a non-working network in stage2 (but a working one in stage1). this can lead to trouble like this
[03:50] <mvo> pitti: hm, I recheck
[03:50] <bddebian> lamont: ping
[03:51] <Kamion> mvo: could be related to the recent bugs about wireless configuration not getting carried over
[03:53] <mvo> Kamion: that sounds plausible. one problem is that a failed apt update will result in broken signatures :/
[04:00] <infinity> mvo : Which sucks, BTW.
[04:00] <infinity> mvo : Do you have a handle on a way to work around/fix that?
[04:01] <infinity> mvo : fe: download all lists to a tempt directory, verify them, and only move them in place if they verify?
[04:02] <elmo> hey did you guys see the bug lars reported on apache in debian about it mangling Releases.gpg?
[04:02] <Kamion> Does anyone here have a system that exhibits #13250?
[04:02] <infinity> elmo : I did, but I haven't had a chance to look at/verify it.
[04:03] <bddebian> Damn, I had a question for infinity about a Malone bug but now I can't remember the package. :-(
[04:04] <infinity> bddebian : php4, adding gdbm support?
[04:04] <infinity> (It's the only Malone bug assigned to me, afair, so that's a fair guess)
[04:04] <\sh> Kamion: I had this behaviour only one time: when my harddrive was changed and it wasn't connected properly ;)
[04:05] <infinity> elmo : mod_magic_mime is weird voodoo.  But adding control chars to the headers is probably not intended. :)
[04:05] <bddebian> infinity: Yeah, is that fixed?
[04:05] <\sh> elmo: can you please sync kxdocker-data (0.12-1) from debian unstable, thx (universe)
[04:05] <infinity> bddebian : No, it'll be fixed in the next Debian upload, and I'll sync it.
[04:05] <elmo> infinity: oh is it not something enabled by default?
[04:05] <infinity> elmo : No.
[04:05] <bddebian> infinity: OK, thanks
[04:06] <bddebian> elmo: Not to bug you, just asking.  Do you know if my key made it to keyring@ ?
[04:06] <elmo> infinity: oh, whine, I Was hoping it was the source of all our mirror out-of-sync problems ;-)
[04:06] <elmo> bddebian: I'll let you know when it is
[04:06] <bddebian> elmo: OK, thx
[04:06] <elmo> \sh: done
[04:06] <Kamion> \sh: probably a different bug then
[04:06] <\sh> elmo: thx :)
[04:06] <\sh> Kamion: yeah...the controller can't give the correct HD data to the kernel...hardware bug
[04:07] <Kamion> \sh: not all partitioner failures are #13250. :)
[04:07] <infinity> elmo : mime_magic shouldn't be enabled by default anywhere.  It's scary voodoo that uses file(1)-style heauristics to guess mime-types.
[04:07] <infinity> elmo : Which is hell on CPU load, among other things.
[04:07] <mvo> infinity: I have a fix that will just reverify the indexes after a failed/partial download. 
[04:07] <infinity> elmo : So, I doubt many mirrors would be anabling it.
[04:07] <\sh> Kamion: as I said :) the issue is the same..but the source of the problem was something else...
[04:07] <torkel> ogra: ping?
[04:08] <ogra> torkel, pong ?
[04:08] <infinity> elmo : However, "weird mirror sync issues" could be caused by people doing rsync runs that ignore timestamps.  daniels was doing that on our local mirror here, which breaks horribly, since Releases will almost always have identical file SIZE but new timestamps.
[04:09] <torkel> ogra: guess you know what I'm going to ask... :-)
[04:09] <infinity> elmo : Funny how those hashes are always the same length. :)
[04:09] <ogra> openafs ?
[04:09] <torkel> ogra: yeah
[04:09] <torkel> ogra: any news?
[04:10] <ogra> torkel, i had no time to testbuild it yet...
[04:11] <elmo> infinity: duh
[04:12] <torkel> ogra: ok. A sync from unstable should be enough, but I guess you want to do a build it yourself?
[04:12] <infinity> elmo : "duh" all you want, but he must have got the idea from somwhere, and I doubt he's the only one who does it. :)
[04:12] <ogra> torkel, i want to be sure it builds
[04:14] <Diziet> kamion: If I say `go back' in the partitioner, it seems to do the same as `done setting up the partition'.
[04:16] <mvo> Kamion: is there anything I can do to help you with #13489?
[04:17] <torkel> ogra: I does. I have been running a local build of it for almost two weeks. (including running the kernel module with 2.6.12-8)
[04:17] <Kamion> Diziet: the alternative, presumably, being "Cancel"?
[04:17] <torkel> ogra: and I'm currently rebuilding it in a pbuild, just to verify that i builds
[04:18] <torkel> not that I'm sure that I'm trustworthy enough...
[04:18] <Kamion> Diziet: I think that's arguably fair enough; it's a dialog that instantly applies its changes in several cases (e.g. when you're resizing)
[04:18] <Kamion> although partman does have provision for cancelling operations
[04:18] <Diziet> kamion: There isn't a `cancel'.  That looks like the cancel button but it doesn't do what cancel normally does.
[04:19] <Kamion> mm, I can see your point
[04:19] <Kamion> at the moment you have to explicitly undo changes from the main partman display
[04:20] <Kamion> but a more fine-grained per-partition undo would be useful
[04:21] <Lathiat> err
[04:21] <Lathiat> anyone ever seen sudo refuse to work because you adjusted yoru clock too far into the future?
[04:22] <Lathiat> i synced mine to the right time not it just says "timestamp too far in the future" whenever i try to do anything
[04:22] <Diziet> I don't mind whether it actually has a cancel, but it shouldn't have a button that looks like cancel but doesn't.
[04:22] <ogra> nope, only if no hostname is set
[04:22] <Lathiat> hostname is fine and even if thats buggere dup itl still work it just whinges lots
[04:22] <Lathiat> well.. this is usefull
[04:27] <infinity> Lathiat : In case the netsplit ate my response, "try sudo -k"
[04:28] <Kamion> Diziet: ok, it ought to be reasonably straightforward to disable backup for just that screen; could you file a bug on partman and I'll do that after preview?
[04:28] <Diziet> Did you see my comment about the partition listing, too ?
[04:28] <Kamion> No.
[04:28] <Diziet> > Also, the main screen has a `go back' which does something different to `undo' (= cancel) and `finish partitioning' (= confirm).  I think this is likely to be at odds with most users' mental model.
[04:28] <Diziet> > (by main screen I mean the list of partitions)
[04:29] <Diziet> (Why are we using this shit-for-brains network anyway?)
[04:29] <sivang> now when I tak on bugs, do I assign them to myself in launchapd or in b.u.c ? (for example, main bugs)
[04:30] <Kamion> Diziet: hmm, yes, backup in the whole of partman is pretty screwed and it could probably stand to be disabled there as well (although I'll have to check the exact details).
[04:30] <Diziet> I'll file a bug :-).
[04:30] <Diziet> In the ubuntu bugzilla ?
[04:31] <\sh> pitti: can u elaborate in a couple of sentences how the export of rosetta is working? and if it's possible to import .po files in rosetta ?
[04:31] <Diziet> Weird.  This NTFS partition shows up, with a mount point, etc., but when I select `Use as', NTFS isn't one of the options.
[04:31] <Kamion> The first half of the bug you mentioned is common to both Debian and Ubuntu; the second half may be partly Ubuntu-specific - so yes, the Ubuntu bugzilla's best.
[04:31] <pitti> \sh: in principle, rosetta will export a big tarball with all translations (optional: ... that changed after date X)
[04:32] <pitti> \sh: langpack-o-matic (a collection of scripts) will take this tarball and generate the language-pack-*[-base]  packages from that
[04:32] <pitti> \sh: however, the exported tarballs still have some flaws
[04:32] <\sh> pitti: what if there are already translated things (so .po files are existing in the upstream code), is it possible to import .po files?
[04:32] <pitti> \sh: you imnport po files to Rosetta for ages, BTW
[04:33] <pitti> \sh: Yes, Rosetta will merge them
[04:33] <Kamion> NTFS is a hard case, I think, since we don't know how to format it, so we can only offer it in "use as" if it's already NTFS
[04:33] <\sh> pitti: then there was a bug today ,-)
[04:35] <Kamion> Sweet! My fix for #14851 works fine now.
[04:35] <pitti> Kamion: congrats, nice to hear
[04:36] <Diziet> kamion: Indeed.  I suspect that this is where some of the problem is coming from.
[04:38] <Kamion> Diziet: I think we'll need to add support for ntfs to partman-basicfilesystems, cribbing from its existing code for ext2 and fat, and making sure that the valid_filesystems/ntfs script doesn't print anything when given the argument 'formatable' (sic)
[04:39] <Kamion> that would hopefully be sufficient ...
[04:45] <lamont> bddebian: si?
[04:46] <bddebian> lamont: Sorry man, can you please check geomview
[04:49] <lamont> you know, if the debian package has xlibmesa-gl-dev in it's build-depends, you can just upload the -ubuntu1 version without bothering with the sync, right?
[04:49] <lamont> (making sure that you use the debian .orig.tar.gz, of course
[04:49] <bddebian> lamont: The ubuntu1 version should be using libgl1-mesa-dev
[04:49] <lamont> right.
[04:49] <bddebian> lamont: I didn't sync that one
[04:49] <lamont> ah, ok
[04:50] <mjg59> elmo: Haha
[04:50] <bddebian> I synced stellarium only because -3 fixed an gcc4 build failure
[04:51] <Kamion> mdz: please merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--vtfix--0
[04:51] <mjg59> elmo: I was wondering why Bruce had suddenly gained a London phone number
[04:51] <Kamion> mdz: (I've uploaded that)
[04:51] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[04:51] <mjg59> sabdfl: Having fun?
[04:52] <sabdfl> busted
[04:52] <mjg59> Haha
[04:52] <silbs> mjg59: we all enjoyed it
[04:52] <sabdfl> we're pretty much in hysterics over here
[04:52] <mjg59> You had me going for a bit
[04:52] <Keybuk> didn't they split up? :p
[04:53] <Keybuk> bddebian: me too, I wouldn't worry about it
[05:00] <infinity> Kamion : Speaking of NTFS, after preview, I'd like to get a newer ntfstools in and stress-test it to hell and back.
[05:00] <infinity> Kamion : Our version is a bit crusty, and the Debian maintainer seems to have recently woken up from a deep slumber and uploaded newer stuff to sid.
[05:01] <bddebian> heh
[05:02] <pitti> Kamion: time for new images then?
[05:08] <sabdfl> mjg59: you denialist, we totally had you hooked
[05:09] <mjg59> sabdfl: Haha
[05:09] <sabdfl> did I not hang up the phone properly?
[05:09] <bddebian> WTH is C++abi2-dev ?
[05:09] <mjg59> sabdfl: No
[05:09] <sabdfl> oops
[05:09] <mjg59> sabdfl: You said "It was good to get to speak to you" and then elmo exploded
[05:10] <sabdfl> i pressed a button, we thought we'd hung up
[05:10] <Kamion> pitti: soon, yeah
[05:10] <mjg59> Haha
[05:10] <sabdfl> great site, btw
[05:10] <dholbach> re
[05:10] <mjg59> Of course, it's entirely plausible that I /will/ get a phonecall from Bruce...
[05:11] <sabdfl> more likely ian
[05:12] <Kamion> oh man, you used a speakerphone for a troll call? :)
[05:12] <Keybuk> has mjg59 been blogging again?
[05:13] <HiddenWolf> It's so nice to be out of the loop. ;)
[05:13] <sivang> HiddenWolf: indeed :)
[05:13] <mjg59> Keybuk: www.dccalliance.biz
[05:14] <HiddenWolf> Lost connection to MySQL server during query in /home/osnews/web/connect.php on line 11
[05:14] <sivang> sabdfl: yo, 'sup? what is this all about? :-)
[05:14] <sabdfl> Kamion: well, wanted the rest of the office to hear both sides. but then cocked up the hangup.
[05:14] <Kamion> mjg59: score
[05:14] <jdub> wow. .biz.
[05:14] <sabdfl> sivang: just fun and games
[05:15] <sivang> sabdfl: hehe :) and the talked Bruce, is Prens presumably
[05:15] <sabdfl> i can't wait for dcc.xxx
[05:15] <sivang> ops I think I misspelled his name
[05:15] <jdub> mjg59: ha ha ha
[05:15] <jdub> mjg59: nicely done
[05:16] <ogra> *grin*
[05:16] <jdub> nicely as in evil
[05:18] <Diziet> mjg59++
[05:19] <Keybuk> I'm so glad I put down my drink before I read that
[05:19] <Keybuk> mjg59: you are a very bad man
[05:19] <\sh> mvo: ping where is "Translate this Application" from launchpad integration translated? ,-)
[05:20] <sivang> \sh: which app?
[05:20] <\sh> sivang: firefox
[05:20] <sivang> \sh: oh :-)
[05:20] <sivang> \sh: not yet imported in I think
[05:20] <\sh> sivang: is it translated in ff for ff or it's globally translated for the launchpad integration stuff?
[05:21] <sivang> \sh: sorry? 
[05:21] <\sh> sivang: I think this string "Translate this Application" is inside of the launchpad integration libs
[05:21] <sivang> \sh: it is
[05:21] <sivang> \sh: what do you want with it?
[05:21] <\sh> sivang: and not related to one application like firefox...because I have it in every app
[05:22] <sivang> \sh: sure, that's was the main design goal :)
[05:22] <\sh> sivang: there was a question from a upstream dev, where those things are translated..
[05:22] <sivang> \sh: in the launchpad integration translation domain
[05:22] <\sh> ok..
[05:22] <sivang> \sh: sorry, in the lpi helper lib translation domain
[05:23] <sivang> \sh: so if it will appear in launchpad eventually, it would probably fall under the translation page of pkg "liblaunchpad-integration" or something similar
[05:23] <\sh> sivang: good :) sounds promising :)
[05:25] <sivang> \sh: it is , actually it sets the grounds to add any menu item we want from a central location, after the application have been patched with it. the actions themselves are controlled from the helper lib.
[05:25] <\sh> sivang: yeah..I'm implementing it later this evening in gajim ;)
[05:29] <elvirolo> hi all
[05:30] <bddebian> Hello elvirolo
[05:30] <elvirolo> is it a known bug that the network settings cannot be changed (in kcontrol) ? if I change the settings from dhcp to static IP, for instance, and then apply the settings, it goes back to dhcp
[05:32] <sivang> \sh: is it universe pkg?
[05:33] <sivang> \sh: in any case, if you need help, let me know
[05:34] <Lathiat> hrm is it just me... or does PPPoE no longer bring up the interface it wants to use
[05:34] <\sh> sivang: 1) yes universe 2) I had a talk with mvo how to integrate it nicely in python :) not a big issue i think
[05:34] <Lathiat> and it did in hoary
[05:35] <sivang> \sh: ah nice, so you're using the python bindings.
[05:35] <\sh> sivang: yeah..gajim is a jabber client in python :)
[05:36] <sivang> \sh: cool :)
[05:38] <\sh> sivang: Nafallo and I are working on it together with upstream to get it into main for breezy+1 ;-) and it's a base for doing some really nasty stuff together with shtoom ;)
[05:39] <\sh> sivang: lets say: if Google comes asap with a XMPP JEP for SIP Signalling then we can merge two application into one :) 
[05:41] <sivang> \sh: ah, nice, shtoom is for Voip right? 
[05:41] <\sh> sivang: yepp
[05:41] <sivang> \sh: as for the other buzz words, I don;t know any of them apart for maybe SIP :)
[05:42] <\sh> sivang: I mean we're here completly alone, so I can reveal my plans here without revealing any secrets: Nafallo and I are planning the World Domination ,-)
[05:42] <sivang> \sh: ok ok, but what are XMPP JEP ?
[05:42] <sivang> \sh: sorry for my ignorance, but i's rather wide..:)
[05:42] <\sh> sivang: standards for IETF XMPP Protocols...they are proposals
[05:43] <sivang> \sh: ah, so you're taking me in the recursive acronym definition, aren't ya? :-)
[05:43] <Nafallo> hmm
[05:43] <Nafallo> xchat needs gpg-support ;-)
[05:44] <sivang> Nafallo, \sh : kidding + tired
[05:44] <\sh> sivang: Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP)
[05:44] <\sh> sivang: that's the protocol behind jabber 
[05:44] <sivang> \sh: I see, that will be very nice then. This is already a breezy+1 goal? (I wasn't aware that we had started setting up goals for that)
[05:45] <dholbach> infinity: do i get  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/  right? there are currently 1061 packages test-built and >95% built nicely?
[05:45] <\sh> sivang: well...ShtoomVoip was a breezy goal and defered to breezy+1
[05:45] <\sh> sivang: I took it over from thom
[05:46] <\sh> sivang: so it will stay for breezy+1 and I hope I get a running environment for it in a short time...
[05:46] <lamont> dholbach: it's like this:
[05:46] <lamont> Total 27 package(s) in state Building.
[05:46] <lamont> Total 14 package(s) in state Dep-Wait.
[05:46] <lamont> Total 2 package(s) in state Failed.
[05:46] <lamont> Total 1016 package(s) in state Installed.
[05:46] <lamont> Total 2 package(s) in state Uploaded.
[05:46] <lamont> Total 1061 package(s)
[05:46] <Lathiat> \sh: i'd consider using gnomemeeting now that it has SIP
[05:46] <pitti> seb128_, dholbach: do you plan a poppler sync with Debian soon, or a normal upload? I'm asking because of #14524; it's easy and no big deal, and does not warrant an extra upload
[05:46] <dholbach> lamont: yes, that's where i got my information from
[05:47] <Lathiat> \sh: shtoom has some nasty problems, like 2second audio delay on intel laptop sound chipsets
[05:47] <lamont> 27 failures (since the buildd's are basically done), 14 packages that depwaited... if they aren't also dep-wait in breezy, then that's a failure too.;
[05:47] <\sh> Lathiat: no...shtoom is python so it was sabdfl idea ;) 
[05:47] <Lathiat> \sh: sure, but it sucks
[05:47] <Lathiat> gnomemeeting doesnt suck
[05:47] <lamont> 2 packages that were marked failed, and 2 that failed to make it into the archive --> bad packaging
[05:47] <\sh> Lathiat: no it's working at least with my voip provider ;)
[05:47] <seb128_> pitti: I've uploaded poppler today ...
[05:47] <Lathiat> \sh: the ui is horrid, i get  2 seconds audio delay on both my laptops which makes it useless, its prone to randomly dying
[05:48] <pitti> seb128_: synced with Debian?
[05:48] <Lathiat> i mean i'd like to see it work nice...
[05:48] <bddebian> lamont: Can you make a list so I can check if any are mine?
[05:48] <\sh> Lathiat: the UI we will take care about it
[05:48] <lamont> dholbach: for that list, Failed --> not ours --> arch not in arch list
[05:48] <seb128_> pitti: no, but do we care about this bug? I would close it
[05:48] <Lathiat> the audio delay is the killer.. i was chatting with one of the devs and they have no idea
[05:48] <pitti> seb128_: as I said, it's not a big deal
[05:48] <\sh> Lathiat: thats alsa 
[05:48] <lamont> bddebian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/breezy.all.i386 is the list
[05:48] <bddebian> Oh
[05:48] <Lathiat> \sh: sure, but it needs to work..
[05:48] <pitti> seb128_: just wanted to know whether there was a pending upload, but ok; I downgrade it
[05:48] <seb128_> pitti: close it
[05:48] <dholbach> lamont: so the rest is yet to come
[05:48] <\sh> Lathiat: yes...and it depends on python-alsa stuff
[05:49] <lamont> but with only 1061 packages, you'll find that there are no universe packages there...
[05:49] <Lathiat> \sh: so python-alsa sucks?
[05:49] <seb128_> pitti: we don't care, it's transitionned on all arch and we will sync later, no need to keep bugzilla noise
[05:49] <pitti> seb128_: ok
[05:49] <mpt> \sh / Nafallo: Will either of you be at UBZ?
[05:49] <\sh> Lathiat: all codecs are plugged into shtoom 
[05:49] <lamont> dholbach: only 1061 source packages exist in that archive --> universe wasn't imported yet, and probably won't be until post-preview release
[05:49] <dholbach> lamont: i thought there 'd be some heavy complete rebuild action going on
[05:49] <\sh> mpt: if I can get a sponsorship I hope yes
[05:49] <dholbach> lamont: i see - thank you :)
[05:50] <\sh> mpt: if not, I hope nafallo can go
[05:50] <Lathiat> \sh: and if so, what can be done about it?
[05:50] <\sh> Lathiat: kick upstream for python-alsa ;9
[05:51] <lamont> dholbach: with 3 buildd's per architecture, it goes pretty fast, but they all take 30 packages or so at a shot, so it can slow down the throughput of a single (critical for preview release) package if they're chunking through a full universe rebuild.
[05:51] <lamont> of course, that's just my guess...
[05:51] <bddebian> Heh, none of them are mine :-)
[05:51] <dholbach> lamont: sounds reasonable
[05:52] <lamont> bddebian: if you drop the "Test/" from that, then you get the real archive status
[05:52] <lamont> and, of course s/i386/$whatever/
[05:52] <lamont> :-)
[05:53] <Lathiat> lamont: is it possible to restrict it to 2 of the 3 or something?
[05:54] <lamont> Lathiat: there are several main packages that take hours to build.
[05:54] <lamont> but yes, it would be possible
[05:54] <\sh> Lathiat: but we will work closely with `anthony and the other guys from shtoom together
[05:54] <lamont> just annoying
[05:55] <Lathiat> \sh: ok well i'd love to see it work, if i can be of any assistance on that audio problem.. be good to get it solved.
[05:56] <Nafallo> \sh: you know I can't go to UBZ
[05:56] <bddebian> lamont: What are you trying to say? ;-)
[05:56] <Nafallo> :-/
[05:56] <lamont> bddebian: many of your questions to me of late could be answered by looking at p.u.c/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.*
[05:57] <lamont> with the knowledge that bad dep-waits don't clear automatically, and that packages marked Building are either Building or Failed.
[05:57] <lamont> (in fact, that's how I've been answering them....
[05:58] <bddebian> lamont: OK, sorry, I'll do my own looking from now on.
[05:58] <lamont> bddebian: I don't mind the occasional question, so no big deal
[05:59] <jdub> seb128_: ping
[05:59] <seb128_> jdub: PONG
[06:00] <jdub> seb128: hey - have you built fer's latest releases?
[06:00] <jdub> not worried about packages, just whether you've built them or not
[06:00] <\sh> Nafallo: ah yes...
[06:01] <\sh> Nafallo: I forgot
[06:01] <\sh> Nafallo: so we have to find a backup ,-)
[06:01] <\sh> ogra: ;)
[06:01] <seb128> jdub: they have been packaged/uploaded yep
[06:01] <seb128> jdub: you want to force them for 2.12.0 without doing a build with them? :)
[06:01] <\sh> or i have to win a price in the lottery asap ;)
[06:02] <bddebian> \sh: :-)
[06:02] <jdub> seb128: yes, wanted to konw if they've been tested
[06:03] <dholbach> jdub: what do you think of us - building is ok... but testing???
[06:03] <bddebian> lamont: Is there anyway to tell when these were submitted? I.E. torcs is Dep-Wait?
[06:03] <lamont> sigh... what did dpkg --print-gnu-build-architecture turn into?  Keybuk ?
[06:04] <lamont> bddebian: well, sorta..
[06:04] <lamont> buildLogs/t/torcs contains a directory-per-version.  The hightest version number (not alpha sort, dpkg order...) will be the last time the package was tried...
[06:05] <lamont> dep-waited packages are never tried until the dep-wait is cleared (either by the package arriving in the archive, or me pretending it's available)
[06:05] <seb128> jdub: you are rolling GNOME 2.12.0 yourself ?
[06:06] <jdub> seb128: just checking for the GNOME release
[06:06] <elmo> mvo: did you have any luck  diagnosis silbs stuff?
[06:06] <elmo> s/stuff/upgrade problems/
[06:06] <tseng> jdub: are we there yet?
[06:06] <mvo> elmo: yes, we fix it after preview
[06:07] <seb128> jdub: k
[06:07] <jdub> tseng: on the way
[06:07] <mvo> elmo: #14842 (if you are interessted)
[06:09] <bddebian> lamont: Can't be. buildlogs/t/torcs says ubuntu2 and the Dep-Wait is on ubuntu4.  Or am I confused again?
[06:09] <lamont> bddebian: new uploads of a dep-waited package are _NOT_ even tried --> no log
[06:10] <lamont> so ubuntu2, if you look at the log, will show that it failed for want of the dep-waited package.
[06:10] <lamont> dep-wait target, rather
[06:10] <lamont> so -ubuntu3 and -ubuntu4 have never been tried.
[06:10] <bddebian> Ahhh
[06:10] <lamont> if your upload fixed the bad build-dep, then you have to poke lamont/infinity to get it cleared.
[06:11] <bddebian> I don't remember which revision I uploaded at this point, that was ages ago. :-)
[06:11] <lamont> bddebian: OTOH, if it really does need that package before it builds, then fixing said package so that it finally arrives in the archive will automatically release torcs for building.
[06:12] <elmo> mvo: ok, cool, thanks
[06:12] <elmo> mvo: btw the bug doesn't mention synaptic
[06:12] <elmo> mvo: which also has the problem, and synaptic's the default PM (right?)
[06:13] <lamont> dpkg --contents xaw3dg_1.5+E-8_i386.deb | grep -v usr/share
[06:13] <lamont> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-09-07 10:07:39 ./
[06:13] <lamont> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-09-07 10:07:39 ./usr/
[06:13] <lamont> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-09-07 10:07:38 ./usr/X11R6/
[06:13] <lamont> what's wrong with that picture? :-)
[06:13] <mvo> elmo: it's really a bug in the dist-upgrade code in apt, the "correct" package would be "libapt-pkg" or something like that. but I can add that info too
[06:13] <bddebian> lamont: Well plib1.8.3-pic isn't in the archive, it's replaced by 1.8.4-pic so what do I need to do?
[06:13] <jdub> lamont: the date, clearly.
[06:13] <elmo> mvo: I don't mean the package so long as your description; but I don't mind, as long as you're aware :)
[06:13] <lamont> jdub: I was kinda hoping the package would contain a .so and such, you see.  So were all the packages that Build-Depend on it...
[06:14] <lamont> bddebian: assuming that the package doesn't build-depend: plib1.8.3-pic, you poke me to pretend that plib1.8.3-pic is available.  which I will now do.
[06:15] <mvo> elmo: I added a short comment, but the fact that apt/synaptic<->aptitude use different dist-upgrade algorithms gives me a headache since some time now, so I won't forget :)
[06:15] <lamont> bddebian: done
[06:15] <elmo> heh, ok
[06:26] <ogra> Kamion, is making my ltsp-client-builder udeb depending on archive-copier ok as i understand the udeb order in the installer is done via dependencys ? 
[06:30] <ogra> Kamion, if i'm wrong, how do i make sure the udeb gets installed while the CD is still mounted ?
[06:31] <Keybuk> lamont: dpkg-architecture ...
[06:32] <Diziet> lamont: Dammit, does no-one know about `set -e' any more ?
[06:36] <\sh> elmo: ping -> legal question regarding debian packages distributed-net (http://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/distributed-net)
[06:36] <\sh> or anyone else with legal background ;)
[06:36] <mjg59> \sh: Yup?
[06:36] <elmo> don't trust him
[06:36] <\sh> mjg59: are we allowed to distribute this package as well, or is it debian only?
[06:36] <elmo> he's with the dccallaince
[06:37] <\sh> because there is a note in the debian/copyright file
[06:37] <elmo> \sh: we can't distribute stuff with a license specific to debian
[06:37] <elmo> I excluded a bunch of stuff from the initial non-free import for that reason
[06:37] <\sh> elmo: ahhh...thats why gkrelldnet is in ubuntu but distributed-net as install-dep not
[06:38] <\sh> hmmmm...
[06:39] <Diziet> What I really need is a dvd of the breezy preview to prime my local mirror.
[06:39] <Diziet> That is, one including universe.
[06:39] <Kamion> ogra: that sounds inappropriate; use XB-Installer-Menu-Item in your control file as well
[06:39] <mjg59> \sh: Doesn't look like it
[06:39] <Kamion> ogra: er, "as well" -> "instead
[06:39] <Kamion> "
[06:40] <ogra> Kamion, thanks :)
[06:40] <mjg59> elmo: Hater
[06:40] <Kamion> Diziet: partman's sh use is generally abysmal, much worse than the rest of the installer
[06:40] <\sh> elmo/mjg59: do u think we can get an acknowledgement from upstream for including it? or is it at all against the ubuntu copyright policy?
[06:40] <ogra> Kamion, but that means my template file has to have a menu entry etc, right ? 
[06:40] <Kamion> ogra: just make sure it's before prebaseconfig
[06:40] <ogra> oki
[06:40] <Kamion> ogra: yes, "Build LTSP chroot" should be a step in the main menu
[06:40] <ogra> oki
[06:41] <Kamion> ogra: feel free to run the source package past me when you have something to show
[06:41] <ogra> Kamion, any cool way to test it without an extra build ? 
[06:41] <elmo> \sh: you could if you want - but is it really relevant these days and/or worth spending time on?
[06:41] <lamont> Keybuk: thanks
[06:41] <lamont> Diziet: heh
[06:41] <ogra> Kamion, i'll have, tonight
[06:41] <\sh> elmo: if it's my will I could send gkrelldnet to the morque ,-)
[06:42] <Diziet> -anarres:work> find partman-* -type f | xargs egrep -l '^#! ?/bin/sh$' | xargs egrep -L 'set -e' | wc -l
[06:42] <Diziet> 151
[06:42] <ogra> Kamion, s/build/cdbuild
[06:42] <Kamion> ogra: it's a bit awkward for udebs containing templates
[06:42] <\sh> elmo: cause a package which is not installable is a foobar package imho
[06:45] <Kamion> ogra: you can modify a CD image locally to add your udeb, and boot with anna/choose_modules=ltsp-installer (or whatever)
[06:45] <HiddenWolf> seb128, ping
[06:45] <ogra> Kamion, ok, thanks...
[06:45] <Kamion> Diziet: just don't start looking at shell quoting in partman :-/
[06:46] <mdz> morning
[06:46] <ogra> Kamion, err, all udebs i have looked at contain debconf templates 
[06:46] <Kamion> elmo: could you switch dists/breezy/Release to say "Preview", please?
[06:46] <mjg59> jbailey: Did you have a chance to think about the USB/hibernate interaction?
[06:46] <ogra> morning mdz 
[06:46] <Kamion> ogra: that may be true
[06:46] <bddebian> Hello mdz
[06:47] <Kamion> ogra: (and really I mean "debconf templates not already in udebs that anna can load for you", but never mind)
[06:47] <seb128> HiddenWolf: pong 
[06:47] <jdub> mdke: ping
[06:47] <Kamion> mdz: can we lock down unapproved uploads now until preview release?
[06:47] <Diziet> kamion: Shell quoting is going to be less of a problem, surely ?  Most of the values it deals with are identifier-like.
[06:48] <Diziet> mdz: Hello.
[06:48] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I have a .sxc file that defaults to file-roller when I press enter on it in Nautilus.
[06:48] <elmo> Kamion: done
[06:48] <mdz> elmo: thanks
[06:48] <Kamion> Diziet: most of, but not all - I had to fix a bug recently in the handling of partition labels
[06:48] <elmo> that was done to the Releases string change
[06:48] <elmo> not the lock down
[06:49] <elmo> but lock down is easy to do
[06:49] <HiddenWolf> seb128, nautilus recognises it correctly as an openoffice calc file, btw
[06:49] <Diziet> kamion: Niiice.
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: feeling good about the resolution of 14851?
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: did you happen to check it into arch for me to merge?
[06:49] <seb128> HiddenWolf: is that a zip file too?
[06:50] <jbailey> mjg59: I don't think there's much to think about.  I'll have to attempt the recover before I init USB and suck it up that we have no way of knowing whether the bus scan is complete.
[06:50] <HiddenWolf> seb128, yes, all ooo files are .zips in disguise, but I'd expect it to default to OOO2-calc since it's installed.
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: 15:51 < Kamion> mdz: please merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--vtfix--0
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: I'm just running it through on amd64 now
[06:50] <elmo> \sh:  there's a bunch of packages like that, i.e. alot of what came from contrib in Debian
[06:51] <elmo> \sh: but whether you guys want to keep them or not, is ultimately up to you
[06:51] <seb128> HiddenWolf: right click on the file, properties, open with
[06:51] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I know, but shouldn't that be default?
[06:52] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok
[06:52] <seb128> HiddenWolf: sure it is, but your description it no useful
[06:52] <seb128> HiddenWolf: please open a bug with a file example
[06:52] <mdz> I haven't tested the live cd on powerpc in a while; hope it still works
[06:52] <HiddenWolf> seb128, right.
[06:52] <\sh> elmo: I will discuss this during motu meeting..
[06:52] <Kamion> mdz: nor I, actually, I'll do so in a moment
[06:53] <Kamion> I had difficulty with the last test I did on powerpc though; I think my CD drive needs cleaning
[06:53] <seb128> are we going to have a language-pack update before preview?
[06:54] <Kamion> seb128: pitti left earlier, so that may be difficult; I don't know if anyone else can drive the langpack-o-matic
[06:54] <mdz> elmo: please do the lock down
[06:55] <xTina> *sigh* is there something wrong with dpkg 1.10.27ubuntu1.1? I'm getting random unpacking errors when doing fully automated and thus repeatable installs ("no such file or directory", "free(): invalid pointer", "dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile returned error code 2" ...). I ran installations on multiple machines in parallel, some went just fine, while others got tons of error when unpacking the packages. If I don't dist-upgrade before i
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: I'll do a test once we have images with casper 1,12
[06:56] <seb128> Kamion: hum, right, thanks
[06:56] <mdz> xTina: you saw those errors on more than one machine?
[06:56] <xTina> mdz: Yes, I did.
[06:56] <Kamion> mdz: I've just started a livefs build; I'll do CD builds after that
[06:56] <HiddenWolf> seb128: Attachment #3593  to Bug #14905 Created
[06:56] <xTina> mdz: I've been at this problem for more than 3 days now :(
[06:56] <seb128> HiddenWolf: thanks
[06:56] <xTina> mdz: I have a lab with 74 machines I'm trying to install Ubuntu on.
[06:56] <mdz> Kamion: is everything up-to-date buildd-wise?
[06:57] <mdz> xTina: it hasn't happened to me anywhere
[06:57] <Kamion> mdz: I haven't checked
[06:57] <elmo> mdz: just mian?
[06:57] <mdz> elmo: yes
[06:59] <Kamion> no, stuff like libgnome is still building, so we'll need another round of builds later
[06:59] <xTina> mdz: It seems to happen when I try to install tons of packages in one swoop, like apt-get install kubuntu-desktop. Then unpacking fails at random packages, sometimes on almost all machines, sometimes on none. The only reliable way to avoid is, is to not upgrade before doing those custom installs. Which strongly makes me suspect something's wrong with dpkg.
[06:59] <elmo> mdz: done
[06:59] <Kamion> xTina: worth trying 1.10.27ubuntu2?
[07:00] <Kamion> (hoary-updates)
[07:00] <xTina> Kamion: Doesn't make a difference, tried that.
[07:00] <Kamion> ok
[07:00] <Kamion> (of course that wouldn't be as random as what you're describing)
[07:00] <Diziet> Random errors is very strange.
[07:00] <mdz> xTina: it sounds awfully like a hardware problem
[07:00] <Diziet> Very tempting to blame the hardware.
[07:01] <Kamion> are all the machines identical (in terms of vendor, components, etc.)?
[07:01] <xTina> yep
[07:01] <xTina> Well, some have a DVD burner, but they fail too.
[07:01] <Kamion> I'm thinking more of CPU, RAM, disk
[07:01] <mjg59> xTina: It's possible that there's a kernel issue with the hardware
[07:01] <xTina> yeah, that's all the same
[07:02] <Kamion> or filesystem problems?
[07:02] <mjg59> xTina: sometimes motherboard chipsets behave in slightly odd ways
[07:02] <mdz> 1.1 was just a recompile of ubuntu1 anyway
[07:02] <mjg59> xTina: It would be helpful if you could test Breezy on one of the machines and see if it exhibits the same symptoms
[07:02] <xTina> might be, but as I said, nothing happens unless I dist-upgrade before apt-get install'ing our list of additional packages.
[07:02] <mjg59> Hmm
[07:02] <Kamion> have you tried things like compiling a kernel on them?
[07:03] <mdz> xTina: there are a lot of packages other than dpkg which would be upgraded
[07:03] <Kamion> that used to be a pretty good stress-test of RAM, although perhaps not so much any more
[07:03] <xTina> mjg59: I tried that, but the netinstall that's on the colony-3 CD complains about not being able to download additional kernel modules.
[07:03] <xTina> mdz: You mean when doing the dist-upgrade after a plain hoary install?
[07:03] <Kamion> xTina: the netboot installer goes out of date quickly; use the one in the archive (/dists/breezy/main/installer-*/current/)
[07:04] <Kamion> xTina: or the one on Colony 4 will be fine
[07:04] <pef> bye
[07:04] <Kamion> mdz: live/i386 and live/amd64 are both fine with the #14851 fix
[07:05] <xTina> Kamion: ok, I will try that
[07:05] <seb128> HiddenWolf: that's because default list point to openoffice1 apps, will be updated
[07:05] <HiddenWolf> seb128, right.
[07:05] <seb128> carlos: pong
[07:07] <mdz> Kamion: fantabulous, thanks for that
[07:08] <Kamion> burning live/powerpc now to have a look
[07:10] <Diziet> mdz: I sent you a mail about wanting more stuff to do.  Since then I asked Kamion and have ended up reading lots of partman code.  But I still think it would be good for me to have (say) more bugs to deal with or something.
[07:12] <Kamion> mdz: I can borg Diziet into installer hacking if you *like*, but "here, take some of my bugs" isn't necessarily an appropriate response from a mentor when asked for help finding stuff to do :-)
[07:12] <sivang> oh not again..
[07:12] <Kamion> oops, he's split
[07:12] <Diziet> Joy.
[07:12] <sivang> Kamion: why not, pitti tells me that all the time :)
[07:13] <Kamion> mdz: I can borg Diziet into installer hacking if you *like*, but "here, take some of my bugs" isn't necessarily an appropriate response from a mentor when asked for help finding stuff to do :-)
[07:13] <ogra> hrm
[07:13] <Diziet> mdz: Did you see my earlier comment ?  I'll repeat it ...
[07:13] <Diziet> > mdz: I sent you a mail about wanting more stuff to do.  Since then I asked Kamion and have ended up reading lots of partman code.  But I still think it would be good for me to have (say) more bugs to deal with or something.
[07:13] <Kamion> sivang: sure, but Diziet's being paid and so people might be entitled to have other plans
[07:13] <mdz> Diziet: there are *lots* of bugs in bugzilla; how can it be that you don't have enough?
[07:14] <Diziet> Should I be tra...  damn.
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: it's not exactly obvious where effort should most effectively be applied, if you're floating rather than having a list of stuff assigned to you by default
[07:14] <mdz> Diziet: you should be subscribed to ubuntu-bugs
[07:15] <Diziet> Yes, I am, and I've been looking at the traffic there.  See my mail.
[07:15] <bddebian> Kamion: Amen to that :-)
[07:15] <Robot101> Diziet: go and convince the Debian kernel team they want to use mkinitramfs and not any other weird thing :)
[07:15] <Diziet> Of the traffic there that's not people discussing bugs they're already working on, it's just the odd `New:' bug really.
[07:15] <Kamion> Diziet: that said, search for high-severity bugs ...
[07:15] <mdz> Diziet: a New bug which is assigned to debzilla is up for grabs
[07:16] <sivang> Robot101: lol :)
[07:16] <mdz> highest impact bugs deserve highest priority
[07:17] <Diziet> Bugzilla has the `RC Bugs' list.  Am I supposed to be trawling through that ?
[07:18] <Diziet> The proportion of bugs assigned to debzilla is pretty low.
[07:18] <Diziet> And many of those seem to be really poor reports to which the best response is a polite version of `please send an actual bug report'.
[07:20] <jdub> Kamion: scotch on the rocks!
[07:20] <Diziet> Also, am I supposed to be making a distinction between things in main and things in universe ?
[07:21] <ogra> jdub, *shudder* ... you put frozen water into scotch ? 
[07:26] <sivang> mdz: do you consider printing bugs important (most of the bugs on g-c-m are low prio for example) , or is there areas requiring more attention?
[07:27] <mdz> sivang: it depends on the bug
[07:28] <mdz> Diziet: that's a big part of triage, and it's work which needs to be done
[07:28] <mdz> Diziet: incomplete bug reports need to be improved or rejected
[07:28] <mdz> I'll respond to your email when I can
[07:28] <mdz> Diziet: HelpingWithBugs covers some of this, too
[07:29] <Diziet> Yes, I read that, but it's more a suggestion of things to do to bugs rather than a way to choose bugs to pay attention to.
[07:29] <Diziet> triage> Sure.  If that's what you want me to be doing I can do that.  Is the bugzilla `RC Bugs' list a sensible place to start ?
[07:30] <Kamion> When I'm doing general triage, I generally either start with the RC bugs list or with a particular set of packages that interest me.
[07:31] <sivang> mdz: I'd like to take on #6224, but I'd like to know if it is important enough.
[07:31] <mdz> sivang: I'm unable to reproduce that bug; I replug my printer all the time
[07:37] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, apt-get source debconf - has the pt.po and the strings "ubuntu configuration" which are the ones that appear in the post-install of breezy... assuming that is the correct package I'm looking at and assuming that there are translations, why are there not being used during install?
[07:37] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: there's a bug in debconf->cdebconf passthrough; I noticed it myself the other day. I'll dig into it and fix it after preview
[07:38] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, the problem is related to that bug?
[07:38] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: the problem *is* that bug :-)
[07:38] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, lol... and is that related to the "time zone configuration" not being translated too?
[07:38] <Kamion> yeah, same bug
[07:39] <sivang> mdz: so we can tag it EWORKFORME ?
[07:39] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, ok, I can rest in peace now:)
[07:39] <Kamion> anything that's run in /target rather than in the main installer environment seems to be having translation troubles
[07:39] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: hang on though, you said "post-install"; at what stage exactly did you see "Ubuntu configuration"?
[07:40] <mdz> sivang: no, we should ask for more information and a test with breezy
[07:40] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, after the reboot after installation, when the system is booting for the first time appears a graphical interface which on top says "ubuntu configuration".
[07:41] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, "time zone configuration" problem is before reboot of course....
[07:41] <Kamion> graphical? really?
[07:41] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, eheh... ok..... pseudo graphical? :)
[07:41] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, I mean... not black and white text;)
[07:42] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: ah, that is a different bug
[07:42] <sivang> mdz: ok, sure. then I'll try to reproduce and /or ask for specific brand fo the printer in question, maybe it is a make specific issue
[07:43] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: debconf is incorrectly having its translations stripped and put into language packs, which aren't installed yet at that stage
[07:44] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, hhmm... I'm lost. "Time zone configuration" problem is related to the above problem you mentioned before and "Ubuntu configuration" to the one you just mentioned?
[07:44] <Kamion> debconf-i18n rather
[07:44] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: correct
[07:44] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: sorry, when you first mentioned the bug with "Ubuntu Configuration" I assumed it was pre-reboot
[07:45] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, thanks. Should we take any step to get "ubuntu configuration" bug solved? The first one I assume it will be corrected by you after preview....
[07:46] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I've just sent mail to Martin Pitt about the second bug
[07:46] <Kamion> he should be able to deal with it shortly
[07:46] <xTina> btw, is http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs01.html the newest version of this document, or is there a newer one somewhere?
[07:46] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, thanks:) 
[07:46] <Kamion> xTina: yeah, that's current
[07:46] <WaterSevenUb> monteiro, kamion rocks;)
[07:46] <monteiro> yes ;)
[07:46] <Kamion> although it is also out of date according to one of my bug reports; I need to look over it
[07:47] <xTina> Kamion: Hm. Preseeding the locale as it's described there doesn't seem to work for me in colony-4.
[07:47] <xTina> Kamion: Also, that URL: http://www.debian.org/releases/breezy/example-preseed.txt probably isn't correct ;)
[07:47] <Kamion> xTina: yeah, that's one of the out-of-date bits - change "preseed/locale" to "debian-installer/locale"
[07:47] <Kamion> xTina: heh, true - I'll fix all that up at the same time, thanks
[07:48] <xTina> Kamion: ah, ok :)
[07:49] <Kamion> most of the rest looks moderately reasonable
[07:49] <Diziet> Do we care about a missing build-depends on a package implied by ubuntu-base ?
[07:49] <phlaegel> desrt: ping
[07:49] <desrt> pong
[07:50] <xTina> Kamion: I guess there's no significant changes in regard to partman's handling of expert recipes in breezy, or is there?
[07:50] <phlaegel> I take it you're the gnome-applets release guy?
[07:50] <Kamion> Diziet: yes, if it's not a direct/indirect dependency of build-essential
[07:50] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, at a give stage during breezy installation appears the message "Download language support" or something similar... any idea what is the package responsible for this? We are suspecting that there is a problem also... but needs further investigation.
[07:50] <desrt> phlaegel; ya.  is there a problem? :/
[07:50] <Kamion> Diziet: the buildds don't install all of ubuntu-base
[07:50] <Diziet> kamion: is there an easy way to tell ?
[07:50] <Kamion> xTina: no
[07:51] <phlaegel> desrt: wondering about bug 12573... the stock applet is completely useless as is
[07:51] <desrt> ubuntu bug?
[07:51] <\sh> xTina: tuxtina.de? 
[07:51] <phlaegel> desrt: I was surprised to see it release with it :-) 
[07:51] <phlaegel> desrt: yep
[07:51] <Kamion> Diziet: if it's Priority: required (according to Packages) or in the buildd list near the top of /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy, it's build-essential
[07:51] <xTina> \sh: yep
[07:52] <desrt> uhhh
[07:52] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: archive-copier; that's translated into pt_BR but not pt
[07:52] <desrt> phlaegel; ya.  that's pretty freakin' serious
[07:52] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: happy to take a pt.po for that at cjwatson@ubuntu.com
[07:52] <\sh> xTina: interessting documents on your page :) 
[07:52] <desrt> phlaegel; it will be fixed for breezy.  thanks for bringing it to my attention.
[07:52] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, eheh... you were fast;)
[07:53] <phlaegel> desrt: no problem :-)
[07:53] <xTina> \sh: what in particular?
[07:53] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: well, I wrote archive-copier ...
[07:53] <\sh> xTina: linuxinstallation_folien.pdf e.g.
[07:53] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, still.. you guessed it;)
[07:54] <\sh> xTina: update this one for ubuntu now ,)
[07:55] <xTina> \sh: Oh, we did our last install party with ubuntu as the default distribution. It just wasn't me who did the slides ;)
[07:56] <\sh> xTina: but looks like :)
[07:56] <sivang> seb128: so we will get gnome-applets last drop for lpi after preview?
[07:57] <xTina> \sh: 2001? Our last install party was in 2004 :)
[07:57] <dholbach> mdz: i will upload glibmm and libgnomevfsmm next week, ok? those two just dropped in this evening
[07:57] <xTina> \sh: http://fachschaft.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/studium/infmisc/archiv/ws04/installparty.pdf
[07:58] <Diziet> So I have an alleged FTBFS bug, imported from bugzilla, about a missing build-depends on bzip2 (which doesn't appear to be build-essential).  But the current source appears to have been built successfully by our buildd.
[07:58] <\sh> xTina: I should take a better look on the statusline of my ff
[07:58] <mdz> dholbach: seb128 said everything was uploaded
[07:58] <mdz> dholbach: for 2.12.0
[07:59] <dholbach> mdz: those are not of major importance - c++ bindings
[07:59] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, there is a warning # THIS FILE IS AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED FROM THE MASTER FILE
[07:59] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, should we be worried about this or just make .po file?
[07:59] <mdz> dholbach: are they 2.12.0 or not?
[07:59] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: don't worry about it, I'll take care of it
[07:59] <dholbach> mdz: and the changes are mostly the the version number
[07:59] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, ok... give us 15 minutes;)
[07:59] <Diziet> Should I upload a new version with it fixed (after the preview is out) ?
[08:00] <\sh> gnarf...I'm not a wiki editor 
[08:00] <Kamion> Diziet: yes, that would be appropriate after preview; the buildds don't always start from a totally clean slate
[08:00] <Diziet> k: Right.
[08:01] <Kamion> (Launchpad buildds will start from a clean chroot every time, I'm told.)
[08:01] <mdz> dholbach: is there any hope of fixing xchat so that it doesn't continue pulsing the taskbar forever and ever?
[08:02] <dholbach> mdz: will have a look around
[08:03] <tritium> I've already gotten used to Alt-Tabbing away from and back to xchat to eliminate the pulsing
[08:05] <ogra> seb128, see the pre last paragrph: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-September/000488.html
[08:05] <ogra> its still there :/
[08:05] <ogra> even on new installs
[08:05] <desrt> phlaegel; i've found the patch that introduced the regression
[08:05] <desrt> phlaegel; if push comes to shove, i'll just back out the patch
[08:06] <mdke> jdub, still here?
[08:06] <jdub> mdke: yeah
[08:06] <mdke> jdub, sup?
[08:06] <jdub> mdke: what's with the 'misleading information' stuff on BBBT page?
[08:06] <\sh> mdz: use irssi
[08:07] <mdke> jdub, nothing really, I just removed "ItalianTeam" because people might think that the locoteam will be there. No biggie
[08:08] <mdke> I have this error which is blocking my dist-upgrade in breezy http://pastebin.com/357252 I can't see anything in bugzilla, is it known?
[08:09] <Keybuk> mdke: isn't known; but looks like libdjvulibre15 needs to conflict/replace libdjvulibre1
[08:09] <mdke> Keybuk, i'll file a bug then. Do you know how I can workaround it?
[08:10] <Keybuk> that's strange ...
[08:11] <Keybuk> it already does have one
[08:11] <Keybuk> what version of libdjvulibre1 do you have installed?  (dpkg-query -W libdjvulibre1)
[08:11] <mdke> libdjvulibre13.5.14-5
[08:11] <jdub> mdke: that was my impression
[08:11] <jdub> mdke: that members of the loco team would be coming along
[08:12] <mdke> jdub, i thought it was open to all italian community members... the guy who wrote you is not in the team
[08:12] <mdke> so i figured to leave it open to more people, i'd remove the "team" reference
[08:13] <mdke> one out of four of us in the locoteam can make it I think
[08:13] <jdub> isn't the loco team open to anyone interested in ubuntu in italy?
[08:13] <mdke> Keybuk, what is the bug #?
[08:14] <Keybuk> +Conflicts: libdjvulibre1 (= 3.5.14-6), libdjvulibre1c2
[08:14] <Keybuk> +Replaces: libdjvulibre1 (= 3.5.14-6), libdjvulibre1c2
[08:14] <Keybuk> weird
[08:14] <mdke> jdub, the team is made up of 4 members, a bit like the Community Council. The community in general is open to anyone interested in ubuntu in Italy
[08:14] <Keybuk> it has a specific version of the next one
[08:14] <Keybuk> mdke: no bug#, just looking at the package changelog
[08:14] <Keybuk> file a bug saying those conflict/replace needs to be a little less specific ;)
[08:14] <Keybuk> or if mdz approves, I can just fix that now <g>
[08:14] <mdke> Keybuk, ok shall I file it against libdjvulibre1c2?
[08:15] <jdub> mdke: weird :)
[08:15] <Keybuk> this isn't a hoary->breezy bug though, it's a part-breezy -> breezy
[08:15] <\sh> cxx trans
[08:15] <mdz> Keybuk: then it should wait until after preview
[08:15] <Keybuk> agreed
[08:16] <mdke> jdub, the community got big so we developed that system
[08:16] <mdke> jdub, i made a translation explaining it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianCommunityStructure
[08:16] <Keybuk> . o O { my god, that's a difficult package name to type! }
[08:17] <mdke> yeah
[08:18] <Keybuk> mdz: actually, it does affect hoary->breezy too by the looks of it
[08:18] <Keybuk> that needs to be a <= not an =
[08:18] <Keybuk> (hoary's package includes the conflicting file too)
[08:19] <mdz> Keybuk: since uploads are locked down, go ahead and upload
[08:19] <mdke> Keybuk, ok i've filed it at #14909
[08:19] <seb128> mdz, dholbach: speaking about what? *mm?
[08:19] <mdz> Keybuk: if we have to process other uploads anyway, we'll let it in
[08:19] <mdz> seb128: yep
[08:19] <dholbach> seb128: yep
[08:20] <mdke> jdub, feedback on the system is always appreciated :)
[08:20] <seb128> mdz: they are not a part of the desktop, but a part of the bindings platform .... we have GNOME 2.12.0 (desktop)
[08:20] <mdke> Keybuk, i'd still appreciate a workaround if you know one, I can't dist-upgrade and it's a few weeks since my last one
[08:21] <seb128> not sure on how much about *mm stuff, they are not used a lot
[08:21] <seb128> ogra: what about this mail?
[08:21] <Keybuk> mdke: dpkg --force-depends --remove libdjvulibre1
[08:21] <Keybuk> mdke: dpkg --unpack /var/cache/apt/archives/libdjvulibre15_*.deb
[08:21] <seb128> oh, the education menu, not sure about it
[08:21] <Keybuk> (in that order -- then run the upgrade again)
[08:22] <ogra> seb128, the dissapearing menu stuff
[08:22] <seb128> sivang: what about applets?
[08:22] <mdke> Keybuk, magic, cheers
[08:22] <seb128> ogra: if you have the issue you are welcome to track it
[08:22] <seb128> jdub: around?
[08:22] <mdz> Kamion: are those livefs builds finished?
[08:22] <ogra> seb128, i'll do... its just strange, since it only disappears occasionally...
[08:23] <HiddenWolf> seb128, nautilus doesn't update file size regularly for me. Only when I bring it up after minimised or when manually refreshing it. known bug?
[08:23] <ogra> seb128, there is no pattern for it...
[08:23] <HiddenWolf> seb128, watching a file download...
[08:24] <seb128> HiddenWolf: what file size? properties one?
[08:24] <HiddenWolf> seb128, 'size' column in nautilus
[08:25] <seb128> HiddenWolf: not sure abou that, search on bugzilla.gnome.org, there is probably a bug about it
[08:25] <HiddenWolf> seb128, i'll browse
[08:26] <seb128> mdz: bindings are mm, java, perl, pygtk .. we have pygtk uptodate and I would say others don't really matter. If dholbach wants to update *mm that's fine (and is no likely to break something since they are not used a lot and frozen upstream too) but that can wait after preview
[08:26] <jdub> seb128: yo
[08:26] <seb128> jdub: do we care about *mm 2.12.0 tarballs?
[08:27] <seb128> jdub: have bindings the same schedule as the desktop for GNOME ?
[08:28] <Lathiat> seb128: i thought some of that got uploaded already?
[08:28] <jdub> seb128: yes
[08:28] <jdub> seb128: murray's were late
[08:28] <mdke> i'm also getting update errors with console-data, base-config and ubuntu-minimal. These have been here for at least a month, is everyone else getting em?
[08:28] <dholbach> Lathiat: most of it, two are missing
[08:29] <elmo> mdz/kamion: 'helena -m breezy' does something useful
[08:29] <seb128> jdub: "yes we care" or "yes that's the same schedule" or "yes to both"? :)
[08:30] <jdub> seb128: yes to both ;)
[08:30] <seb128> bah
[08:30] <seb128> k :)
[08:30] <mdke> ah it is bug #13134 but it doesn't seem to have been assigned to anyone yet
[08:36] <seb128_> grumpf, dsl hangup
[08:38] <mdz> jdub: in this case, care implies "care for preview purposes"
[08:39] <jdub> which is a no
[08:39] <seb128_> mdz: does anybody out of pitti has language-pack clue? The current GNOME translations are quite laggy and that would be nice to have them updated
[08:39] <mdz> seb128_: no, I don't think anyone else can build them at this time
[08:39] <mdz> lamont: ?
[08:40] <mdz> seb128_: have all 2.12 packages been built?
[08:40] <lamont> mdz: I'm not sure - I might be able to figure it out, but I wasn't instructed or anything...
[08:40] <seb128_> mdz: yep
[08:40] <mdz> lamont: where does it live and how do I get access to it?
[08:41] <lamont> the un-merged tarballs are http://people/~lamont/translations/....
[08:41] <lamont> but those need to be merged, and I'm still not clear on the algorithm that pitti has planned for that...
[08:42] <mdz> sent an SMS to pitti
[08:42] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, you have email :)
[08:43] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, sorry for taking 30 min instead of 15 ;)
[08:44] <mvo> mdz: I can call pitti on his mobile if you want
[08:45] <mdz> mvo: does he not receive SMS?
[08:45] <mdz> mvo: sure, try him
[08:45] <mdz> he is calling me now
[08:45] <mvo> mdz: ok
[08:48] <desrt> BenC; sup
[08:49] <mdz> ok
[08:50] <mdz> language pack story: we can't build updated langpacks until pitti makes some fixes to the scripts
[08:50] <jdub> gnome 2.12 has been released
[08:50] <dhonn> cool
[08:50] <jdub> the very loud second hand is ticking now :-)
[08:50] <mdz> so we can proceed with testing candidates tonight, and if all goes well, we can roll in updated langpacks in the morning, do another test cycle and go
[08:50] <mvo> congrats jdub 
[08:50] <mdz> jdub: congratulations
[08:51] <dhonn> http://gnome.org/
[08:54] <seb128_> jdub: congrats :)
[08:54] <ogra> yay jdub 
[08:54] <jdub> seb128_: give elijah the love this time 'round :-)
[08:54] <dhonn> always on time 
[08:55] <mdz> has anyone had hotplug exceed the default usplash timeout?
[08:55] <mdz> or anything other than module-init-tools?
[08:55] <desrt> when is preview happening?
[08:56] <ogra> desrt, tomorrow if we match the schedule
[08:56] <desrt> seb128_; i have a fix for one of your bugs that you might want to consider, then
[08:56] <seb128_> desrt: consider for when?
[08:56] <desrt> seb128_; for preview
[08:57] <ogra> that must be a very serious one then :)
[08:57] <seb128_> desrt: which one? I doubt we do new uploads now, that would delay the CD build probably
[08:57] <desrt> oh.  ok.  forget it then
[08:57] <seb128_> what is the bug?
[08:57] <desrt> the fix will be in 2.12.1 anyway
[08:57] <desrt> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12573
[08:57] <seb128_> I've no stopper on my list
[08:57] <desrt> gtik basically completely doesn't work
[08:57] <desrt> but not many people use it :P
[08:57] <seb128_> oh, right
[08:58] <seb128_> that's a detail :)
[08:58] <desrt> :)
[08:58] <seb128_> will be fixed for 5.10 anyway
[08:58] <desrt> ya
[08:58] <desrt> davyd and i are gonna try and get 2.12.1 out on time for 5.10
[09:00] <seb128_> the schedule is made to ship 5.10 with GNOME 2.12.1
[09:00] <seb128_> so if you roll the tarball for GNOME 2.12.1 that's ok
[09:08] <mdz> slomo: what was the date of the tech board meeting where you proposed yourself for MOTU?
[09:09] <slomo> mdz: uh... wait... the tb meeting just before july 27th iirc
[09:10] <mdz> slomo: I need the exact date
[09:10] <ogra> mdz, he was added to the motu group on aug 25th, since the meeting must have been tuesday, it was the 22th
[09:11] <slomo> mdke: 26th
[09:11] <Lathiat> check the wiki logs :)
[09:11] <slomo> mdz even...
[09:11] <ogra> err 23th
[09:11] <slomo> ogra: my logs say 26th ;)
[09:11] <ogra> oh, didnt we meet on tuesday ?
[09:12] <ogra> slomo, but i dont add people in advance to the motu group.... 
[09:13] <mdz> slomo: thanks
[09:13] <slomo> ogra: jul 26th
[09:13] <ogra> ergh, ok
[09:14] <slomo> ogra: np :)
[09:14] <mpt> jdub: In gnome.org/index.html, change "550" to "401"
[09:15] <mpt> otherwise the "smoother graphics & antialiasing" is unintentionally amusing
[09:16] <bddebian> elmo: pingeage
[09:17] <jdub> mpt: it's updating right now
[09:17] <jdub> thank you
[09:18] <jdub> fiftieth time
[09:21] <ogra> jdub, btw, did you see this bug ? http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14622
[09:22] <dholbach> brb
[09:23] <froud> whose the address for training and certification development?
[09:24] <jbailey> froud: What are you looking for?  There's a few different people.
[09:24] <froud> who is the head?
[09:25] <jdub> froud: speak to jane silber/
[09:25] <froud> kk
[09:25] <froud> thx
[09:26] <bddebian> elmo: If/when you come around can you please sync libdebtags1, debtags, and tagcoll 1.4 from experimental.  I have been asked to bring in 1.4 rather than try to merge debtags 1.3.  Thanks a million.
[09:35] <Kamion> mdz: oh yeah, ages ago
[09:35] <Kamion> mdz: is this a preview-candidate install CD build happening now?
[09:39] <Kamion> mdz: live/powerpc wouldn't start X for me (claiming bogus PCI bus ID), but I don't trust my results there because I was getting EIO on /usr/bin/less and /bin/more
[09:40] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[09:41] <mdz> Kamion: live build is already done, burning ow
[09:41] <mdz> now
[09:41] <mdz> OW BURNING
[09:41] <lu|release> there are creams for that now.
[09:42] <tseng> mdz: ive been hacking on livecds all day, i can now partially appreciate your painful burden
[09:42] <tseng> edit, compress, mkiso, burn, test, rinse, repeat
[09:43] <lu|release> tseng: another mono livecd?
[09:43] <mdz> tseng: x3 architectures ;-)
[09:43] <lu|release> tseng: and apologies in advance; I could not fix beagle on the gnome liveCD in time. :/
[09:43] <jdub> how well does your burner cope after the rinse stage?
[09:43] <tseng> lu|release: a demo for work
[09:43] <tseng> lu|release: damn, too bad.
[09:43] <tseng> jdub: after a bit of sizzling it seems to do alright
[09:44] <lu|release> tseng: yeah
[09:44] <lu|release> tseng: next release I guess
[09:44] <lu|release> (which probably won't be my baby, for better or for worse)
[09:44] <tseng> lu|release: jhill is hacking on another
[09:44] <tseng> lu|release: (mono cd)
[09:45] <lu|release> tseng: cool
[09:45] <mvo> ping mjg59 
[09:45] <mjg59> Hi
[09:46] <mvo> mjg59: I was wondering if it would be worthwhile to use the lrmi code to help grub figuring the device_map. what do you think?
[09:46] <mjg59> mvo: If there are any BIOS calls that would help, then probably
[09:47] <mjg59> But bear in mind that lrmi is x86 only - it won't work on amd64
[09:48] <mvo> mjg59: yes, that is essentially the problem. figure the bios disk order (#1750). I have some prototype code (based on vbetool), but I seem to be unable to give the thing a real-mode buffer where the bios can write the drive info into :/
[09:49] <mjg59> mvo: Where's the code?
[09:49] <mvo> mjg59: on my hdd, I can put it on people.u.c if you are interessted/have time
[09:50] <mjg59> mvo: Please - I can take a quick look now
[09:51] <mvo> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/vbetool-0.3.tar.gz
[09:51] <mvo> mjg59: hm, I should probably rename that :)
[09:52] <mvo> mjg59: http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-0715.htm
[09:52] <mjg59> mvo: The LRMI_alloc_real should do what you want, I think
[09:52] <mvo>  is the relevant real-mode interrupt
[09:53] <mvo> mjg59: I use it and get "invalid parameter", no idea currently why
[09:53] <mjg59> mvo: Hrm. No real idea then, I'm afraid
[09:54] <mvo> mjg59: ok, thanks for having a look
[09:56] <mdz> Kamion: framebuffer on powerpc seems hosed
[09:57] <mdz> Kamion: at the point where it used to switch to vt2, the display remains unchanged (progress bar at 100%) and the console is unusable
[09:57] <mdz> it was this kind of behavior that caused me to use vt2 originally; I'm surprised it worked for you on i386/amd64
[10:14] <Kamion> mdz: I think it must have worked for me because usplash cleared all the debris out of the way
[10:14] <Kamion> but it definitely did work
[10:15] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, got the email?
[10:15] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I've been busy sorting out a child's dinner.
[10:16] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, :)
[10:17] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: so thank you, and yes I've got it - probably won't be able to deal with it until tomorrow though
[10:18] <Kamion> mdz: I'm surprised though, killing bterm did seem to help
[10:18] <Kamion> but perhaps usplash obscured the issue
[10:19] <mdz> Kamion: so it seems that we either need to fix bterm to clean up after itself, figure out how to clean up after it in casper, or fix this in X
[10:19] <mdz> or perhaps get usplash working on powerpc ;-)
[10:20] <Kamion> the latter's kind of a tempting approach
[10:20] <Kamion> because I don't see why it should be hard - after all it just uses bogl, which works fine on powerpc
[10:20] <Kamion> mjg59: what problems did you run into making usplash work on powerpc?
[10:21] <mdz> Kamion: something about the framebuffer mode
[10:21] <Kamion> oh, bogl_move
[10:21] <mdz> Kamion: I assume when it worked for you, the first few startup messages were obscured, though?
[10:21] <mdz> i.e., you never saw "Starting Ubuntu..."
[10:22] <Kamion> mdz: yeah
[10:22] <Kamion> I didn't really register that at the time, because that situation seemed preferable :)
[10:22] <jbailey> Kamion: It actually crashes usplash from a null pointer dereference.
[10:22] <Kamion> i.e. no text console
[10:24] <mdz> Kamion: it does eventually start X of course, but I doubt many people would wait that long
[10:24] <Kamion> mdz: on powerpc?
[10:25] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[10:25] <Kamion> mdz: an alternative hack is to have the last thing on the progress bar be "Starting live system, please wait..."
[10:25] <mdz> it's just the console output which is hosed; it still boots
[10:25] <mdz> Kamion: haha
[10:25] <Kamion> so even if it doesn't get cleaned up, at least it says "please wait"
[10:27] <Kamion> ok, how hard can it be to implement move on cfb
[10:28] <jbailey> Kamion: mjg59 said that it should be just a memmove with some fiddling to take colour depth into account.
[10:28] <ogra> mdz, i called out a contest for the screensaver dialog background...3 submissions so far...
[10:29] <Kamion> jbailey: the vga16 version isn't even that clever - it's pixel-by-pixel
[10:32] <mjg59> Kamion: The only issue is implementing the move function
[10:32] <mjg59> Possibly also something to deal with centring the picture
[10:32] <Kamion> ok, I'll hide in a cave and do that then
[10:32] <Kamion> but first, COFFEE
[10:41] <mdz> Kamion: did you happen to test with framebuffer=false?
[10:43] <Kamion> mdz: no
[10:43] <Kamion> does it break hideously? :(
[10:44] <mdz> no, I'll test that, then
[10:44] <mdz> haven't tried it ye
[10:44] <mdz> t
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: heh, works, but ends up with white text on a BRIGHT RED background for the boot
[10:49] <mdz> Kamion: did you remove the reset call which was there?
[10:50] <Kamion> what reset call where?
[10:50] <Kamion> there was a clear, I left that alone
[10:58] <pitti> mdz: howdy, going to fix langpacks now :-)
[10:59] <Kamion> mjg59: what's the easiest way to test usplash without having to install it and reboot and stuff?
[11:00] <dholbach> hey pitti 
[11:02] <jbailey> mjg59: Run usplash &, and call usplash_write "STATUS $@"
[11:02] <jbailey> mjg59: Replace $@ with text you want to appear.
[11:03] <jbailey> Kamion: ^^
[11:03] <jbailey> I'll figure out who I'm talking to yet.
[11:06] <pitti> Kamion: new pkgstriptranslations uploaded (with debconf-i18n blacklist)
[11:07] <pitti> Kamion: is this preview-critical? if so, I ask lamfinity to install it ASAP and upload a new debconf
[11:07] <Kamion> jbailey: hmm. well, that hung my system
[11:07] <Kamion> pitti: no, it's not
[11:07] <Kamion> it can wait until after preview, when I'll need to upload debconf at some point anyway
[11:08] <Kamion> (probably)
[11:12] <Kamion> oh, no, sort of working now
[11:13] <mjg59> Backgrounding usplash from an interactive shell tends to work badly
[11:14] <mjg59> Kamion: You probably want to ssh in and test it
[11:16] <Kamion> I've been doing sudo sh -c './usplash & sleep 1; ./usplash_write stuff; sleep 1; ...; wait'
[11:16] <Kamion> text drawing doesn't seem to be working, and as you say nor is centring
[11:17] <Kamion> at least PROGRESS works though
[11:18] <mjg59> Text drawing will do a move call first
[11:18] <mjg59> So if that's going wrong, it may well segfault
[11:19] <Kamion> it's not segfaulting at least
[11:29] <pef> hello
[11:32] <mdz> pitti: good morning :-)
[11:32] <pitti> Hi mdz
[11:33] <mdz> Kamion: updated translations aren't necessarily critical for preview, but awfully nice to have
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: were you able to confirm one way or another whether X was borked on one of your systems?
[11:36] <pitti> mdz: I have two options: build packs from scratch to make them smaller and make elmo cry, or build updates which make them bigger and throw out some from CDs
[11:37] <mdz> pitti: what is the basis of elmo's crying?
[11:38] <pitti> mdz: a big mirror hit mostly
[11:38] <mdz> pitti: the pain will not last
[11:38] <hughsie> mjg59: i hear you patched g-p-m to do some cool ubuntu'y stuff. you got a link to the diff?
[11:38] <mdz> we need to roll new packs when we have a high volume of changes; it's part of the design
[11:39] <pitti> yep
[11:42] <mdz> pitti: we'll have to do it again when we get rosetta exports, presumably
[11:42] <CarlFK> justs installed breezy.  logged in as user, did: system, admin, users.  ksudo: entered something (not sure what). dialog went away, no message, no User/groups dialog.  waited 10 seconds.  try again: sys/admin/users - this time no ksudo, no dialog, no Users - nothing.  (repeated 3 times just to be sure.
[11:42] <pitti> yes, therer is certainly a fair number of accumulated updates
[11:42] <CarlFK> any idea whas going on?
[11:43] <Kamion> mdz: unfortunately not
[11:44] <Kamion> mdz: I think there's only one translation affected in practice by the debconf-i18n thing pitti mentioned, and I don't think it's important enough to go through that dance
[11:44] <Kamion> but langpacks, certainly
[11:44] <mdz> Kamion: I'm not concerned about the debconf thing, but all the upstream translations we're currently missing because langpacks are outdated
[11:45] <mvo> CarlFK: what happens if you run ksudo user-admin in a termianl? any usefull output
[11:45] <mdz> they're supposed to get us more up-to-date translations, not fewer ;-)
[11:45] <mdz> mvo,CarlFK: #ubuntu, please
[11:45] <CarlFK> checking...
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: definitely
[11:48] <dholbach> brb
[11:49] <doko> xchat is quitting on it's own ... hrm ...
[11:50] <mdz> mjg59: do you know what it is that bterm isn't doing at shutdown which leaves the console in a broken state?
[11:57] <Kamion> mjg59: ok, so move works now, it's just the text drawing that mysteriously doesn't work
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> doko, you are the OO.org guy, right?