[12:37] <mpt> Burgundavia: What are you working on?
[03:10] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[03:14] <jsgotangco> i finally got to understand scrollkeeper
[03:18] <jsgotangco> jbailey, ping?
[03:21] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Pong
[03:21] <jbailey> Im' only here for a few minutes.  I also wanted to ask you for some more details of what you think could get done between now and release is mdz relaxes the freeze a bit for you guys.
[03:22] <jbailey> He's certain to ask that when I email him.
[03:22] <jsgotangco> clean up the CSS
[03:22] <jsgotangco> its not consistent
[03:22] <jsgotangco> i registered the docs last night in scrollkeeper
[03:22] <jsgotangco> they look horrible
[03:22] <jbailey> *lol*
[03:22] <jbailey> Really? =)
[03:22] <jsgotangco> About Ubuntu and FAQ Guide have 2 different CSS used
[03:23] <jsgotangco> (dunno why that happened)
[03:23] <jsgotangco> some parts of the doc in faqguide are quite unfriendly
[03:24] <jsgotangco> and bug corey about the quick tour
[03:24] <jsgotangco> as well as finish up release notes =)
[03:24] <jsgotangco> basically we have two docs that are shippable
[03:26] <jbailey> 'k
[03:26] <jbailey> My wife is calling me.  I'll be back in a bit. =)
[03:29] <ajmitch> hi jeff, jerome :)
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hey hey
[03:54] <Madpilot> hi jsgotangco
[03:57] <jsgotangco> hey Madpilot 
[03:57] <jsgotangco> whats up
[03:58] <Madpilot> not much, quick tour is XHTML 1.0 Strict now. Yay.
[03:58] <Madpilot> so the translator app will have an easier time of it.
[03:59] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, can you help out in taming our CSS?
[03:59] <jsgotangco> it seems every doc has its own CSS at the moment
[03:59] <jsgotangco> they don't jive at all, they look horrible in yelp, no consistency
[03:59] <Madpilot> I can have a look, sure
[04:00] <Madpilot> but I know nearly nothing about XML & stylesheets for XML...
[04:01] <Madpilot> an Ubuntu version of this would be kind of cool: http://people.debian.org/~debacle/refcard/refcard-en-a4.pdf
[04:01] <Madpilot> (post-Breezy, of course!)
[04:04] <jsgotangco> ahh like a cheat sheet
[04:04] <jsgotangco> ut can be done after of course as a project
[04:04] <Madpilot> yeah. that one folds up into a pamphlet
[04:05] <Madpilot> I was thinking that a CD-cover-sized one would be natural for Ubuntu - if it's good enough, bundle it with the Shipit CDs...
[04:05] <jsgotangco> i doubt that
[04:05] <jsgotangco> it'll add up more printing costs
[04:06] <Madpilot> true enough - just a thought, anyway.
[04:06] <Madpilot> Most of that debian refcard can be used as-is, I think
[04:07] <jsgotangco> we can still publish it of course, as a PDF
[04:08] <Madpilot> of course. I'll send something off to the mailing list about it
[04:09] <Madpilot> but not this week, I think. It's a post-Breezy project anyway
[04:10] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:10] <jsgotangco> we'll support in in 18 months so it can be released even a few weeks after Breezy =)
[04:11] <Madpilot> interesting - why do the Ubuntu docs use "C" for the English versions, instead of "en"?
[04:12] <jsgotangco> its a gnome thing
[04:12] <jsgotangco> for some reason i have no idea as well
[04:12] <jsgotangco> jeffsch asked me once about it
[04:12] <ajmitch> not just GNOME, iirc
[04:13] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:13] <ajmitch> I think it's a POSIX standard
[04:13] <Madpilot> one of those legacy things that dates back to the early 80s or something? ;)
[04:14] <ajmitch> most likely
[04:14] <Madpilot> heh
[04:15] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: where is the CSS for the various parts of the Ubuntu docs kept? I see a shortage of .css files in there so far...
[04:17] <Madpilot> or does XML do something different with CSS files?
[04:24] <jsgotangco> hmmm i would bet the make file generates the css
[04:24] <Madpilot> ack.
[04:24] <jsgotangco> unfortunately xslt is alien to me atm
[04:24] <Madpilot> I'm going to have to learn Docbook damn quick if that's the case... 
[04:25] <jsgotangco> the reason why im bugging about the HTML output is that the two docs look entirely different
[04:25] <jsgotangco> it shouldn't be the case
[04:26] <Madpilot> which two docs?
[04:27] <Madpilot> I invented the QuickTour's current appearance out of thin air, to be honest...
[04:27] <jsgotangco> about ubuntu and faqguide
[04:27] <jsgotangco> try building them
[04:28] <jsgotangco> make au
[04:28] <jsgotangco> make fagi386
[04:32] <Madpilot> never used make before - is there info in the wiki somewhere?
[04:32] <jsgotangco> u got the whole docs in svn?
[04:33] <jsgotangco> go to the gnome folder
[04:33] <Madpilot> yes, I've got everything thru svn; in the gnome folder now
[04:34] <jsgotangco> on terminal type make faqi386
[04:34] <jsgotangco> and make au
[04:35] <Madpilot> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/docbook.xsl"
[04:36] <Madpilot> and then it ends with: make: *** [au]  Error 5
[04:36] <jsgotangco> hmm you probably don't have docbook-xslt
[04:36] <Madpilot> I get something similar when I try make faqi386
[04:36] <Madpilot> shouldn't the xslt files be in the SVN too?
[04:36] <Madpilot> because I did svn up before I started trying make
[04:36] <jsgotangco> no its a separate package
[04:37] <jsgotangco> sudo apt-get install docbook-xsl
[04:37] <Madpilot> why isn't it in with the rest of the SVN stuff?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> because its a separate package
[04:38] <Madpilot> ack. OK, just a sec
[04:40] <rob^> hey, how did we go with the doc freeze? did it get extended or not?
[04:40] <jsgotangco> no idea yet
[04:40] <jsgotangco> gotta ask mdz
[04:41] <rob^> why did we want it again?
[04:41] <jsgotangco> well if you look at your faqguide, the wording is not yet consistent
[04:41] <jsgotangco> there are still some stuff that needs to be edited
[04:42] <jsgotangco> (like "go to Q.1" to "refer to the blah blah...")
[04:42] <rob^> ah. I might get onto the two doing the review and suggest no major changes, just fix whats there.
[04:42] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:42] <jsgotangco> if you got my email today, i also noticed the difference in the css used
[04:44] <rob^> jeffsh has been working on the css for the faq guide, which one are we going with though?
[04:44] <jsgotangco> hmmm lamont's postfix test package broke my system
[04:44] <jsgotangco> i like jeff's css
[04:44] <rob^> so do I
[04:44] <jsgotangco> its bold and clean
[04:44] <rob^> its very nice
[04:44] <jsgotangco> the faqguide looks rad in yelp
[04:44] <rob^> yep :)
[04:44] <jsgotangco> it took the whole space
[04:44] <jsgotangco> did you try it?
[04:44] <rob^> not today I havent
[04:45] <jsgotangco> did you see it in yelp?
[04:45] <rob^> ok, well I've gtg, I'll bbs
[04:45] <jsgotangco> see ya
[04:45] <rob^> the meeting is tomorrow isn't it?
[04:46] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:46] <jsgotangco> 14:00
[04:46] <rob^> yay midnight :)
[04:46] <rob^> then I have to get up at 7 the next day for sfd!
[04:46] <rob^> oh well, for the cause and all that 
[04:47] <rob^> ok cya
[04:48] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: finally got those two built - wow, I see what you mean about looking different...
[04:48] <jsgotangco> see?
[04:48] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:49] <jsgotangco> nasty
[04:49] <jsgotangco> yelp has its own stylesheets btw
[04:49] <jsgotangco> but considering how slooowww yelp renders lately the html route was actually smart move
[04:50] <Madpilot> about ubuntu also has no margins or padding - it runs text edge-to-edge, which makes for uncomfortable reading...
[04:51] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:53] <Madpilot> but the FAQ begins with this huge table of contents and copyright data, which isn't great either... 
[04:55] <jsgotangco> what do you suggest?
[04:56] <Madpilot> not sure. how about stealing some of the intro blurb stuff from about-ubuntu?
[04:56] <jsgotangco> that would undermine the purpose of about ubuntu
[04:56] <rob^> heh, still couldn't think of anything to write for that Madpilot? ;)
[04:57] <Madpilot> rob^: nope, and it's still bugging me!
[04:57] <rob^> I thought so
[04:58] <Madpilot> heh.... I still think the FAQ looks too... sterile, I guess would be the word. I know a mountain of work has gone into it, but it doesn't show on that intro page right now
[04:58] <jsgotangco> intro page?
[04:59] <jsgotangco> ahh the first page
[04:59] <Madpilot> the index page of the FAQ
[04:59] <rob^> whats jeffsh, name? jeff?
[04:59] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:59] <rob^> :)
[05:02] <jsgotangco> hmm mdz is aiming preview sep 8
[05:02] <jsgotangco> that's today
[05:03] <jsgotangco> or tommorow in the west
[05:04] <ajmitch> that is correct
[05:04] <ajmitch> which is why the MOTUs have been sleepless trying to get universe into shape ;)
[05:13] <Madpilot> once the "Draft" wallpaper is gone from the FAQ, will it just be plain white?
[05:15] <jsgotangco> arrgghh the Draft is still there?
[05:17] <Madpilot> yes
[08:16] <Burgundavia> rob^, ping
[08:16] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia 
[08:16] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, what
[08:16] <Burgundavia> s up?
[08:16] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[08:16] <jsgotangco> just finishing up on the scrollkeeper thing
[08:17] <jsgotangco> we need a consistent CSS for the HTML docs
[08:17] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:18] <jsgotangco> have you read my email?
[08:18] <Burgundavia> yeas
[08:18] <Burgundavia> do I need to do that for the quicktour?
[08:18] <jsgotangco> it can be done
[08:19] <jsgotangco> wow my ubuntu.com email now works
[08:19] <Burgundavia> mpt, ping
[08:19] <Burgundavia> mpt, that should probably be pong
[08:19] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i would prefer the Quick Tour to be the FF frontpage
[08:19] <Burgundavia> instead of about ubuntu?
[08:20] <jsgotangco> hmm maybe that's not a good idea
[08:20] <Burgundavia> the quicktour already has some of it
[08:20] <Burgundavia> I can link to it in the first page
[08:21] <Burgundavia> http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/archives05/2005/09/web-standards-are-your-responsibility
[08:22] <mpt> Burgundavia: really?
[08:22] <Burgundavia> mpt, you asked me what I am working on. Currently review of the faqguide and finalizing the quick tour
[08:23] <mpt> oh, ok
[08:23] <Burgundavia> mpt, why do you ask?
[08:24] <Burgundavia> mpt, I haven't had a chance to pull down ubuntu-help and start playing with that. On my list after doc freeze
[08:25] <mpt> Burgundavia: I was just interested because you were talking about motivating yourself to work
[08:26] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: great web-standards article, thanks.
[08:26] <Burgundavia> mpt, I was having a hard time this morning before work. I am feeling better now
[08:29] <jsgotangco> jeffsch!
[08:29] <jeffsch> howdy
[08:29] <jsgotangco> did you see my email?
[08:30] <jeffsch> looking for it now... gmail is slow right now
[08:32] <jeffsch> hmmm... after 5 minutes of waiting, gmail says unable to perform operation, try later
[08:33] <jeffsch> ah ok. there it is.
[08:35] <jeffsch> when should i remove the draft background from faqguide?
[08:36] <Madpilot> before final release? ;)
[08:36] <jsgotangco> well we could remove it now
[08:36] <jsgotangco> but then preview relesae is now being built....
[08:37] <ajmitch> as we speak
[08:37] <ajmitch> :)
[08:37] <jsgotangco> ye
[08:37] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:37] <jsgotangco> that means another rsync
[08:37] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, what do you think of installing-applications right now?
[08:37] <jsgotangco> the problem is that the docs use different css
[08:38] <jeffsch> Burgundavia: i haven't had a chance to look at it for a coupla days
[08:38] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, I did a major hack last night, removed a bunch of things
[08:42] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: you can change ubuntu-doc/gnome/libs/aboutubuntu.css
[08:42] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, what do you think of the idea of the quicktour as the default FF homepage?
[08:44] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, good idea if we can have FF open up on first boot
[08:44] <jeffsch> hmmm.... there's no place to go to from the quicktour is there? no links to elsewhere, right?
[08:44] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, currently no, but I can add them
[08:46] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, jsgotangco what the legal requirements with the old stuff in our repos (the quickguide, etc.)
[08:47] <jeffsch> what do you mean by legal requirements?
[08:47] <jsgotangco> legal?
[08:47] <Burgundavia> do we need to keep them?
[08:47] <Burgundavia> can we shuffle them into a archive?
[08:47] <jsgotangco> no we'll create a branch for old stuff
[08:48] <jsgotangco> old stuff gets branched
[08:48] <jsgotangco> jbailey will help us clean up
[08:48] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:48] <jsgotangco> branching would be better than deleting the stuff
[08:48] <Burgundavia> yelp actually renders the quicktour faster than FF
[08:48] <jsgotangco> sure
[08:48] <Burgundavia> 1.5 seconds for yelp and 4 for FF
[08:48] <jsgotangco> yelp is pretty fast with html
[08:48] <jsgotangco> the faqguide was very smooth after registering
[08:50] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, how much of this gloria stuff is smoke and how much is fire?
[08:52] <jeffsch> ok, i just removed the draft watermark. if you need to put it back, change faqguide-html-cust.xsl
[08:52] <jeffsch> <xsl:param name="draft.mode" select="'no'"/> becomes
[08:52] <jeffsch> <xsl:param name="draft.mode" select="'yes'"/>
[08:52] <jeffsch> and that's all there is to it.
[08:53] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, the impeachment?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, ya
[08:53] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, majority of the people think she cheated outright
[08:53] <jsgotangco> but she has hold of congress so
[08:54] <jsgotangco> she's probably the most powerful woman in asia at the moment
[08:54] <jsgotangco> i think she's 4th in the world for women
[08:55] <Burgundavia> ok, I need specific feedback on the quicktour
[08:55] <Burgundavia> the lead section "About Ubuntu
[08:55] <Burgundavia> "
[08:55] <Burgundavia> anything you would add/remove from there?
[08:55] <Burgundavia> 2nd thing
[08:56] <Burgundavia> What you think of the line "Ubuntu: It's Great" for the start of the general Ubuntu features
[08:56] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, have you consulted davyd?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, why?
[08:57] <jsgotangco> just ask his opinion he's the one doing a lot for gnome pr you know
[08:57] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, doing so
[08:57] <Burgundavia> salut rob^ 
[08:57] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille 
[08:57] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, ok i'll check the xsl
[08:58] <robitaille> hello Burgundavia 
[09:01] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, won't it be possible to use the same CSS for all?
[09:02] <jeffsch> yeah it's possible.
[09:02] <jeffsch> anything's possible, given enough time and effort
[09:02] <jsgotangco> ok what should i do to make About Ubuntu and FAQ Guide consistent
[09:02] <Burgundavia> we talking applying the same css to the quicktour/faqguide and about? or just about and faqguide?
[09:03] <jeffsch> for now though, if you want the CSS to be the same for faqguide and about ubuntu
[09:03] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, all docs should be consistent
[09:03] <jsgotangco> they look silly
[09:03] <jeffsch> just clobber the aboutubuntu.css with the faqguide.css
[09:03] <jsgotangco> the faqguide output looks rad
[09:03] <jsgotangco> while aboutubuntu is just plain ugly
[09:05] <Burgundavia> aboutubuntu is much too wordy
[09:05] <Madpilot> I prefer the aboutubuntu appearance myself, except for the lack of margins
[09:05] <Burgundavia> for that matter ubuntu.com is much too wordy
[09:06] <jsgotangco> bleah its what we have for now and let's improve on it instead of changing
[09:06] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:06] <Burgundavia> mpt has a spec for UBZ about changing ubuntu.com
[09:06] <jsgotangco> sure
[09:06] <jsgotangco> but thats a month from now
[09:07] <jsgotangco> let's fix the css first =_
[09:07] <jsgotangco> )
[09:09] <jsgotangco> err guys
[09:09] <jsgotangco> css thoughts?
[09:10] <Madpilot> use the ubuntuguide CSS for everything, but with the QuickTour coloured header tags
[09:11] <jsgotangco> err how do i do that =)
[09:13] <Madpilot> not sure of the docbook/XML details, but copy the aboutubuntu css, replace the h1,h2,h3<etc> styles with the ones from QuickTour's embedded CSS?
[09:13] <Madpilot> oh, and add margins all around the aboutubuntu CSS, it really needs them...
[09:14] <Burgundavia> what do you people think of the Ubuntu logo/strapline in the quicktour?
[09:15] <Burgundavia> it is currently 700px wide, which is going to look bad on smaller screens
[09:15] <Madpilot> looks fine to me - it'll look big on 800x640 screens, but there's fewer and fewer of them around, thank dog...
[09:15] <Madpilot> how tall is it?
[09:15] <Burgundavia> not very, no idea
[09:16] <jsgotangco> this css thing is way over my head
[09:16] <jsgotangco> (its been years since i did this)
[09:16] <jsgotangco> but i will do it
[09:18] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: CSS I can manage, it's the XML/Docbook side that I'm behind on...
[09:18] <Madpilot> let me have a look at the aboutubuntu css for a second
[09:20] <Burgundavia> grrr
[09:20] <Burgundavia> ok, this thing is bloody transparent, but is showing as grey
[09:21] <Madpilot> the ubuntu strap png?
[09:21] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:21] <Burgundavia> both yelp and FF render the background as grey
[09:22] <Burgundavia> should I render a new version with a white background?
[09:22] <Madpilot> the one currently in the SVN seems to work OK in Opera & hoary's yelp
[09:22] <Burgundavia> must be a new gecko issue
[09:22] <Burgundavia> let me get my new version into svn
[09:22] <Madpilot> leave it transparent, we've been talking about changing the whole background colour, remember?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:23] <Burgundavia> grr, it is being rendered as having a grey background
[09:23] <jsgotangco> the png?
[09:23] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:23] <jsgotangco> it sucks
[09:24] <Madpilot> OK, I just noticed that the faqguide.css uses the same brown colour for headers (h1, h2, etc) and links, which I don't think is too cool...
[09:24] <Burgundavia> I just rendered one from the svg to the proper size, but it displays the same issue
[09:25] <Burgundavia> oh, that is it
[09:25] <Burgundavia> grr
[09:25] <Burgundavia> our style sheet is defining a grey background
[09:25] <Madpilot> ha
[09:26] <Madpilot> just checked, and I was wrong - I'm getting a grey background in Opera/Hoary as well. damn.
[09:26] <Burgundavia> then I typed "background-colour" and it barfed at that
[09:26] <Burgundavia> commmitted the fix
[09:26] <Madpilot> in css, just use background in the body tag
[09:27] <Madpilot> no such thing as background-color anymore
[09:27] <Madpilot> which fix?
[09:27] <Burgundavia> the background-color is on the image tag
[09:28] <Madpilot> huh?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> .main img {
[09:28] <Burgundavia> 	background-color: #F1F1F1;
[09:28] <Madpilot> THAT's the DAMN problem!
[09:28] <Madpilot> I'd forgotten that there's a pale grey background behind every image in that quick guide!
[09:28] <Burgundavia> should I just drop that whole line?
[09:29] <Burgundavia> 	<img src="UbuntuStrapLogo.png" style="width:700px;border:0;background-color: #FFFFFF;" alt="" title="Ubuntu: Linux For Human Beings logo" />
[09:29] <Burgundavia> I just did that to hack around it
[09:29] <Madpilot> no wonder we can't get the transparent image to show clear!
[09:29] <Madpilot> that'll do
[09:29] <jsgotangco> it works now
[09:29] <Madpilot> inline styles are more specific  that embedded, so it'll override.
[09:30] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, can you confirm that works in Opera?
[09:30] <Madpilot> yeah, it's fixed. nice and transparent.
[09:31] <Burgundavia> but that breaks if we change the background colour
[09:31] <Burgundavia> can I set the background to be transparent?
[09:32] <Madpilot> just a second, let me check something
[09:32] <Burgundavia> what do people think of FFFFE5?
[09:32] <Burgundavia> for a background colour
[09:33] <Madpilot> for the whole quicktour doc?
[09:34] <Burgundavia> YES
[09:34] <Burgundavia> oops
[09:34] <Madpilot> sure
[09:35] <Madpilot> OK, here's how to fix the images - it's easier for me to tell you than it is to generate a diff here
[09:35] <Burgundavia> not on the palette
[09:35] <Burgundavia> but nothing on the palette really looks good
[09:35] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: find the ".main img" tag on the quicktour stylesheet
[09:35] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:36] <Madpilot> delete both the "background-color<etc>" and the "border<etc" lines. leave the padding line
[09:36] <Madpilot> then you can shorten the style in the ubuntu logo to just the height & width
[09:37] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:38] <jsgotangco> guys don't you think the ubuntu logo is too large
[09:38] <Madpilot> that nukes the grey background that was screwing up our transparent png
[09:38] <jsgotangco> i'm in 1024x768 and it took a quarter of the FF screen
[09:38] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:38] <Madpilot> looks fine here, but I do run 1200x1024..
[09:38] <jsgotangco> 1200 =(
[09:39] <Burgundavia> ok, shrunk it to 400px wide
[09:39] <Madpilot> OK, just resized Opera quickly - yeah, it is too big!
[09:39] <Burgundavia> ok, 400px version hitting the repos
[09:40] <Madpilot> how about getting the faq and aboutubuntu using the same coloured headers as quickguide? 
[09:41] <Madpilot> I like them - but they were my idea - and I think they give a nice tie-in with the Ubuntu logo
[09:41] <jsgotangco> do they look nice with Human?
[09:42] <jeffsch> i have to sleep... only got a couple hours last night, and have to get up early again... cya's
[09:42] <jsgotangco> night jeff
[09:42] <Madpilot> night jeffsch
[09:43] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: alongside the default Ubuntu desktop themes, you mean? 
[09:43] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:43] <Madpilot> Just a sec, I'll reset my theme
[09:43] <jsgotangco> the overall look and feel
[09:46] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:47] <Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/ubuntuQT.png  <-- current QT w/ Human (in Opera) - I think it looks fine alongside the brown
[09:48] <jsgotangco> it looks too white
[09:48] <jsgotangco> (the background)
[09:48] <Madpilot> it's very white. trouble is that the Ubuntu-palette-tan is really too dark, I think.
[09:49] <jsgotangco> it doesn't jive with human
[09:49] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[09:49] <jsgotangco> but text doesn't jive with darker backgrounds either
[09:51] <Madpilot> actually, if we use #d9bb7a as a background, it might work. it's a U-palette colour, and subdued enough - and light enough - that it might work
[09:52] <Madpilot> screenshot in a second
[09:52] <Burgundavia> I tried that, found it too dark
[09:55] <Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/QT2.png <-- with d9bb7a
[09:56] <Madpilot> I like it; there is a paler palette colour but I think that one is too pinkish
[09:57] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[09:57] <jsgotangco> its ok for quick tour
[09:57] <Burgundavia> ok, it will go in
[09:57] <Madpilot> a bit much for the whole faq/about section, you think?
[09:57] <jsgotangco> but not for the text-savvy faqguide
[09:58] <Burgundavia> hmm, the orange on that becomes quite hard to read
[09:59] <Madpilot> the orange we're using for h1? yeah, it is a bit.
[09:59] <Burgundavia> should I revert back to FFFFE5?
[10:00] <Madpilot> maybe
[10:00] <Madpilot> how about a different colour for the h1 instead?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> what is the background colour for the login screen?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> it fades from white to that colour
[10:01] <Burgundavia> s/that colour/d9bb7a
[10:02] <Madpilot> hmm? do you mean "is that colour d9bb7a? no idea, I autologin! ;)
[10:03] <Madpilot> the colour on the right-hand side of the ubuntu.com top banner is almost certainly d9bb7a
[10:04] <Burgundavia> what about doing a band at the top of the quicktour, ala the webpage?
[10:05] <Madpilot> sure - have a look at the website, and steal their code and images.
[10:05] <Madpilot> sorry, I'm going to have to call it a night. been a long day and I work in less than 8hrs
[10:05] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:06] <Madpilot> 9-5 bites... ;)
[10:07] <Madpilot> OK, I will see you all around
[10:07] <Madpilot> good night
[10:11] <rob^> Burgundavia, pong
[10:12] <Burgundavia> rob^, do you think installing applications needs more work?
[10:12] <rob^> only minor touch-ups, I like how it is now
[10:12] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:13] <rob^> a few things need rapping in <application> tags and stuff
[10:14] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:41] <mdke> omg
[10:41] <rob^> ?
[10:41] <mdke> did you guys see http://www.ubuntux.org/
[10:42] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:42] <rob^> whats that about?
[10:42] <mdke> another forking of resources it seems
[10:42] <rob^> yeah..
[10:42] <rob^> look at the side panel
[10:42] <mdke> lots of docs
[10:42] <Burgundavia> rob^, mdke, you guys use evolution?
[10:42] <mdke> yes
[10:42] <rob^> yes
[10:43] <rob^> hmm some of that stuff is really bad..
[10:43] <Burgundavia> I need a tag line for the quicktour
[10:43] <rob^> lots of links to the wiki too, whats the point?
[10:43] <Burgundavia> "Read your email in evolution"
[10:43] <Burgundavia> doesn't really do evo justice
[10:43] <rob^> well, thats what it does :)
[10:44] <rob^> maybe you can play the outlook angle
[10:44] <Burgundavia> yes, but is also does calendaring and address book
[10:44] <rob^> connect to imap servers etc etc
[10:44] <rob^> yes that too
[10:44] <Burgundavia> the tag line needs to be about 5-10 words
[10:44] <Burgundavia> VERB with APPLICATION
[10:44] <rob^> quote from that site "Next follow the instructions on the Ubuntu Wiki.
[10:44] <rob^> "
[10:45] <mdke> i think you need the word office in there
[10:45] <mdke> can't think how though
[10:45] <rob^> like, what the, batman?!?
[10:47] <jsgotangco> organise your life with Evolution
[10:47] <mdke> lol
[10:47] <mdke> be one with your computer with Evolution
[10:48] <rob^> Evolution: your personal assistant.
[10:49] <jsgotangco> Keep track of your activities and correspondence with Evo
[10:49] <jsgotangco> ditch the Keep
[10:49] <jsgotangco> grrr this is like gnome-marketing
[10:49] <jsgotangco> except we're docs not marketing
[10:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:50] <rob^> is there something you could steal from them?
[10:50] <jsgotangco> http://www.gnome.org/projects/evolution/
[10:53] <jsgotangco> Organise and collaborate with Evolution
[10:55] <Burgundavia> Email, Organize and collaborate with Evolution?
[10:55] <mdke> nice
[10:56] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:56] <mdke> have you got something for the language-selector in quicktour?
[10:56] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:56] <jsgotangco> organize and collaborate are corporate terms
[10:56] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:56] <Burgundavia> are our docs US or Int. english?
[10:57] <jsgotangco> i'd rather go international
[10:57] <Burgundavia> but organize is US
[10:57] <jsgotangco> but the press usually uses US
[10:57] <mdke> i've seen a lot of Z's in our docs
[10:58] <Burgundavia> ya
[10:58] <Burgundavia> as a Canuck, I move between the two quite easily
[10:59] <mdke> is there something about usplash in there too?
[10:59] <mdke> sorry for dumb questions
[10:59] <Burgundavia> not currently
[10:59] <Burgundavia> like menu editing, it is not a "feature"
[10:59] <jsgotangco> don't think its really a feature
[10:59] <Burgundavia> it is just something that people expect to hapen
[10:59] <mdke> hmm
[10:59] <mdke> maybe you're right
[11:08] <rob^> hey what do you guys think about the 2001 Holden Astra?
[11:09] <rob^> heh
[11:09] <rob^> a car
[11:09] <rob^> http://content2.dealernet.com.au/vfile/image/webpage/stock/640x480/300058.jpg
[11:10] <Burgundavia> don't exist in Canada
[11:10] <rob^> probably not, it might be called something different over there
[11:11] <Burgundavia> likely
[11:11] <rob^> I think they might be called Buick or something?
[11:11] <Burgundavia> hmm, doesn;t look like a buick
[11:11] <Burgundavia> buick's are huge Amurican cars
[11:11] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have to crash, is 2am here
[11:12] <rob^> ok, night
[11:12] <Burgundavia> feel free to work on the quicktour
[11:12] <Kinnison> night burgey
[11:12] <rob^> yeah, they are buick
[11:12] <jsgotangco> Holdens are nice
[11:12] <rob^> yeah, it looks pretty sweet
[11:13] <jsgotangco> i wish i could get one over here i just bought a 2004 Kia Picanto
[11:13] <rob^> with $1.30/L fuel here atm I want to trade in my petrol-munching V6 ford
[11:13] <jsgotangco> its understandable
[11:13] <jsgotangco> my car is 1.1 petrol
[11:14] <rob^> the Holden Astra is 1.8
[11:14] <jsgotangco> that's big
[11:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:14] <jsgotangco> i'd rather get a really small car
[11:15] <rob^> compared to my ford with 4.something L ford it isnt
[11:16] <jsgotangco> are you looking for a hatchback or a convertible?
[11:16] <rob^> hatchback
[11:16] <rob^> 4 door, got kids and stuff
[11:16] <jsgotangco> yeah hatchbacks are for families
[11:16] <rob^> or is it 5 door?
[11:16] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:16] <rob^> one at the back
[11:17] <jsgotangco> 5 door is the correct term
[11:17] <rob^> yeah
[11:17] <rob^> I have to see the scary bank manager tomorrow :''(
[11:17] <jsgotangco> i believe jdub owns a barina
[11:18] <jsgotangco> (it was really small)
[11:18] <rob^> they are
[11:18] <rob^> like a human sardine can
[11:19] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:19] <jsgotangco> we fit
[11:19] <jsgotangco> au cabs are huge though
[11:19] <rob^> not in the little cars
[11:20] <rob^> there is heaps of 6 cyl fords and holdens at the car yards atm, very few 4 cyl ones
[11:20] <rob^> the are almost the same price year for year model
[11:20] <rob^> pretty funny really
[11:21] <jsgotangco> when i was in sydney i was always looking at the showrooms at kings cross
[11:26] <rob^> what.. designed only for IE 5.5 only, we cannot offer you a quote online? Yeah, well your not getting my business then!
[12:30] <mdz> where can I find the release notes work in progress?
[12:32] <mdke> mdz, it hasn't started yet properly. everything we have is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/release-notes/C/release-notes.htm
[12:32] <mdke> i think it hasn't been updated since hoary though
[12:32] <mdz> 404
[12:32] <mdke> works here
[12:32] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/release-notes/C/release-notes.html
[12:32] <mdke> sorry bad paste
[12:32] <mdz> ok, I thought that if you had something it would help in preparing the preview announcement
[12:33] <mdke> mdz, we have something else hang on
[12:34] <mdke> damn haven't got a preview of it
[12:34] <mdke> mdz, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/gnome/quicktour/quicktour.html
[12:34] <mdke> sorry, it's not on our preview server
[12:35] <mdz> weird, firefox renders thatt page as plain text, not html
[12:35] <mdke> here too
[12:35] <mdke> it's a svn server
[12:35] <mdz> the server is sending content-type text/plain
[12:35] <mdz> ah
[12:35] <mdke> mdz, download it and open it locally
[12:35] <mdz> most of those items aren't new in breezy
[12:36] <mdke> i'll copy it to our preview server
[12:36] <mdke> mdz, burgundavia is working on that doc, perhaps email him via the list with comments?
[12:37] <mdz> mdke: we're going to put together a preview announcement; someone will want to merge that content into the release notes
[12:37] <mdz> since we'll basically be writing release notes for breezy
[12:38] <mdke> yeah that would be good
[12:38] <mdke> mdz, we'll need a partial extension of document freeze to do the release notes however
[12:39] <mdz> what happened?  I thought we agreed that this was a reasonable compromise between time for doc authors and translators
[12:39] <mdke> yeah
[12:39] <mdz> delaying the start of the freeze is unfair to translators
[12:39] <mdke> the other docs are ok I think... but releasenotes haven't been done
[12:39] <mdke> mdz, yeah I agree
[12:40] <mdz> any changes made during the freeze need to be brought to the attention of the translators so that they know they need to retranslate if they've already done it
[12:42] <mdke> we haven't yet opened anything for translation
[12:42] <mdke> it needs to go into rosetta, then we'll announce a call for translation
[12:42] <mdke> with your permission, we'll hold back on doing that for releasenotes, given that they haven't been written yet
[12:42] <mdz> up to you
[12:43] <mdz> just make sure your work gets uploaded to breezy regularly; jbailey can help 
[12:43] <mdke> ok
[12:43] <jsgotangco> hi
[12:43] <mdke> i haven't been in the loop lately, i don't know if an upload has been done yet
[12:43] <jsgotangco> sorry i was out
[12:43] <jsgotangco> jbailey uploaded faqguide and about ubuntu
[12:44] <jsgotangco> but hasn't registered them to scrollkeeper/yelp
[12:44] <mdke> as separate packages?
[12:44] <jsgotangco> no
[12:44] <jsgotangco> i think as ubuntu-doc
[12:44] <mdke> ah ok
[12:44] <mdke> bbbl
[12:44] <jsgotangco> if you notice my email today it was about registring the doc to scrollkeeper
[12:45] <jsgotangco> mdz, there's already new docs in the seeds, just not registered with sk and yelp
[12:49] <mdke> jsgotangco, will you email the list today about freezing the docs?
[12:49] <mdke> that way, we can try and get them ready for translation ASAP
[12:50] <jsgotangco> i will announce the freeze?
[12:50] <mdke> is it today?
[12:50] <jsgotangco> yes
[12:50] <mdke> maybe make it the last day for changes?
[12:50] <jsgotangco> okay
[12:50] <jsgotangco> hmmmm
[12:51] <mdke> i'll start bugging carlos about getting things in rosetta
[12:52] <jsgotangco> the faqguide is still incomplete atm because of the inconsistencies of the entries
[12:52] <jsgotangco> some still have the Q.x stuff
[12:52] <mdke> it's not releaseable?
[12:52] <jsgotangco> it is
[12:52] <jsgotangco> its just not consistent
[12:52] <mdke> oh
[12:52] <mdke> so what are we gonna do?
[12:53] <jsgotangco> hmm let me svn up and see the status
[12:53] <jsgotangco> i might be up all night just to edit them
[12:53] <jsgotangco> rob^, ping?
[12:53] <rob^> hi
[12:53] <rob^> yeah just been reading the scrollback
[12:53] <jsgotangco> how complete is the edited faqguide
[12:53] <rob^> I think that has been fixed now, let me just check
[12:59] <rob^> there are a few on Apache and streaming media server that need to be fixed
[12:59] <rob^> thats it, I'll do it now 
[01:00] <jsgotangco> ok please ping me when its done so i can announce the freeze for the two docs
[01:00] <rob^> ok np
[01:00] <jsgotangco> hmm
[01:00] <jsgotangco> wait you'll patch again
[01:00] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:00] <jsgotangco> ok
[01:00] <rob^> yeah :)
[01:01] <jsgotangco> ok i'll wait for the patch (im having a bad case of migraine now)
[01:01] <rob^> I just got back from the pub myself 
[01:01] <rob^> lucky I only had 1
[01:05] <mdke> jsgotangco, another thing to think about for the freeze is the kubuntu docs as well as the ubuntu ones
[01:05] <mdke> i gtg now
[01:12] <jsgotangco> mdke, i'll check the kubuntu doc in a minute
[01:23] <jsgotangco> arrghhh kubuntu still has some nasty doc errors
[01:24] <rob^> yep
[01:24] <jsgotangco> ok about kubuntu builds
[01:25] <jsgotangco> rob^, done
[01:25] <jsgotangco> ?
[01:25] <rob^> the only problem with breaking up the faq is trying to find which line has an error when you vailidate it :(
[01:26] <jsgotangco> usually its can be easily debugged if you tag it properly
[01:26] <rob^> we use the same tags so much that if you make lots of changes its a pain
[01:27] <jsgotangco> ok  kfaqguidei386 builds
[01:28] <rob^> it will be a very gnomeified kde guide though
[01:28] <rob^> not very many kde apps in it
[01:29] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[01:29] <jsgotangco> maybe we should not include kubuntu faqguide
[01:29] <jsgotangco> what you think
[01:29] <jsgotangco> it still has kynaptic
[01:29] <rob^> I think not
[01:29] <jsgotangco> include it?
[01:30] <rob^> can we release it later after release?
[01:30] <rob^> as an update or something to ubuntu-doc?
[01:30] <jsgotangco> no
[01:30] <jsgotangco> i doubt
[01:30] <rob^> well, I guess we have a choice
[01:31] <rob^> really I think it would confuse a lot of kde users
[01:31] <jsgotangco> we can make it a universe package though
[01:31] <rob^> wow my pc seems really slow after an update today..
[01:31] <jsgotangco> hmm i like the css of the kubuntu docs
[01:33] <jsgotangco> rob^, are you done?
[01:33] <rob^> hmm I still have 47mb ram free out of 512, evolution is taking forever
[01:33] <rob^> almost
[01:33] <rob^> one thing I have to add then that is it
[01:34] <jsgotangco> ok
[01:34] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[01:34] <jsgotangco> i only have 1 kubuntu doc
[01:34] <jsgotangco> still need to check that kqg
[01:34] <jsgotangco> mdke, ping?
[01:34] <mdke> ?
[01:34] <jsgotangco> what say you about kubuntu
[01:35] <jsgotangco> kfaqguide is really spotty
[01:35] <rob^> yes, because its not done
[01:35] <jsgotangco> kquickguide will need some editing that i can probably manage later
[01:35] <mdke> not sure, I haven't seen it.
[01:35] <rob^> I don't use kde and haven't had the time to do it
[01:35] <mdke> leave kfaqguide probably
[01:35] <rob^> yep
[01:35] <mdke> what about the userguide?
[01:35] <jsgotangco> kubuntu?
[01:35] <mdke> yes
[01:35] <jsgotangco> let me build that
[01:36] <mdke> jsgotangco, use the preview server dude
[01:36] <jsgotangco> its full of errors
[01:36] <mdke> doc.ubuntu.com/kde
[01:36] <jsgotangco> the thing won't build
[01:37] <rob^> hmm we havn't profiled for ppc yet..
[01:37] <jsgotangco> is this even updated?
[01:38] <rob^> should I include OSX .iso burning instructions that everyone can see?
[01:38] <rob^> or just leave it at windows and ubuntu
[01:38] <jsgotangco> ditch it if its going to take you some time
[01:38] <rob^> yeah.. I might not worry about it
[01:39] <mdke> the frontpage is an important issue because it should link to the other docs
[01:40] <rob^> the faqguide now validates ok, just gonna give it a quick build and read thru
[01:40] <jsgotangco> frontpage of yelp?
[01:40] <mdke> yes, we agreed it was to be the faqguide
[01:41] <rob^> yes
[01:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[01:42] <jsgotangco> it can be registered in yelp
[01:42] <jsgotangco> (no idea how to make it the frontpage)
[01:42] <jsgotangco> i can put it in the front as an index
[01:43] <mdke> yeah
[01:43] <mdke> but then links needs to be made, also the massive list of people's names needs to go
[01:43] <jsgotangco> people's names?
[01:44] <mdke> oh sorry
[01:44] <mdke> that has gone
[01:44] <mdke> great
[01:44] <rob^> all done :)
[01:44] <jsgotangco> mdke, did you see my email re: scrollkeeper?
[01:44] <rob^> the revision has also been moved
[01:44] <mdke> jsgotangco, yes
[01:44] <mdke> i really gtg now
[01:45] <jsgotangco> *groan*
[01:46] <jsgotangco> hmmm jjesse last updated the kquickguide
[01:46] <jsgotangco> but didn't validate sheeshh
[01:47] <rob^> hehe annoying hey?
[01:47] <jsgotangco> good thing its only one document
[01:47] <jsgotangco> ok let me fix this now
[01:51] <jsgotangco> i can't fucking find it
[01:51] <jsgotangco> grrr
[01:51] <jsgotangco> im getting pissed
[01:52] <rob^> ah wtf?
[01:52] <jsgotangco> i still dont have your patch
[01:52] <rob^> have you seen the sun-j2re1.5 package, is that now java included in Ubuntu?
[01:53] <jsgotangco> eh?
[01:53] <jsgotangco> we dont have java
[01:53] <jsgotangco> we have blackbox in multiverse
[01:53] <rob^> check it out
[01:53] <rob^> The Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment contains the Java virtual machine,
[01:53] <rob^> runtime class libraries, and Java application launcher that are
[01:53] <rob^> necessary to run programs written in the Java progamming language
[01:53] <rob^> (this includes the Java 2 Plug-In for Netscape and Mozilla
[01:53] <rob^> browsers).
[01:53] <rob^> This package has been automatically created with java-package (0.25build1).
[01:53] <jsgotangco> where did you get that
[01:53] <rob^> ah ignore me
[01:54] <rob^> I am dumb, thats a package I made
[01:54] <jsgotangco> kquickguide won't be coming in its too messy
[01:55] <jsgotangco> unless jjesse reads emai llater
[01:56] <rob^> hang on, just reading thru fixing up any last inconsistancies
[02:02] <rob^> just a question, you want to remove all Q4 type links, even on the same page?
[02:03] <jsgotangco> what did jeffsch do
[02:03] <rob^> he did half and half, its kind of messed up
[02:03] <rob^> I will fix it
[02:03] <jsgotangco> i know
[02:03] <jsgotangco> that's what i was saying about consistency
[02:03] <rob^> I kind of wish he left it now
[02:03] <jsgotangco> i didnt involve myself because i might conflict with someone else
[02:03] <jsgotangco> rob^, yeah 
[02:04] <jsgotangco> it does look good though
[02:05] <rob^> yes, might take me 30min-an hour to fix this though
[02:05] <jsgotangco> ill give you my account if you need it
[02:06] <jsgotangco> i need to test something
[02:06] <jsgotangco> brb
[02:06] <jsgotangco> i'll send an email later regarding the freeze
[02:07] <jsgotangco> since sept. 8 is still not done in other parts of the globe, we're still relatively safe =)
[02:07] <rob^> ok I'll be here until the faq is done
[02:11] <gvrocha> Does anyone knows how hot a processor can get while not too loaded? I have just run acpi to find out mine is at 66C while not too loaded...
[02:12] <gvrocha> Is there anyway I can control the fan from the command line? Mine does not seem to ever be getting to the high speed...
[02:36] <jsgotangco> mdz, i've already announced the freeze by the end of the day and will only allow exceptions upon confirmation to you
[02:36] <jsgotangco> s/to/from
[02:37] <jsgotangco> jjesse, 
[02:37] <jsgotangco> right
[02:37] <jjesse> yes
[02:37] <jsgotangco> just the man we need
[02:37] <jjesse> oh boy :)
[02:37] <jsgotangco> kquickguide is it done?
[02:38] <jjesse> it was until it was just decided to move from knyaptic to adept
[02:38] <jjesse> so that has to be redone
[02:38] <jjesse> but then it will be done
[02:38] <jsgotangco> can you do it before the day ends?
[02:38] <jsgotangco> today is supposed to be freeze
[02:39] <jsgotangco> see my email
[02:39] <jsgotangco> jjesse, and the doc doesn't validate atm
[02:39] <jsgotangco> i tried building it
[02:39] <jjesse> to be honest i haven't worked much on it
[02:39] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of taking a stab at it but no idea where to start and don't want to undermine your work
[02:39] <jjesse> i take it froud has stopped doing docs? he did all of it the first time
[02:40] <jsgotangco> jjesse, can it be included for release?
[02:40] <jsgotangco> froud is not active anymore
[02:40] <jjesse> when is end of day?
[02:40] <jsgotangco> today =)
[02:40] <jsgotangco> sept. 8
[02:40] <jjesse> well end of day in what time zone?
[02:40] <jsgotangco> oh don't worry about the timezone
[02:41] <jsgotangco> just today =) to wherever you are
[02:41] <jjesse> grin
[02:41] <jsgotangco> because the docs need to be translated
[02:41] <jsgotangco> if the kquickguide isn't really reliable, we'll just pass on it
[02:41] <jjesse> to be honest i doubt i will have much time to work on it the only change that i have seen is adept
[02:41] <jjesse> so we just need to rip out kynaptic and put in adept
[02:41] <jsgotangco> i have no idea
[02:42] <jjesse> that's what i'm saying is what needs to be changed in 
[02:42] <jjesse> riddell just mentioned yesterday that it was going to be incldued on #kubuntu
[02:42] <jsgotangco> i have no idea about adept at all
[02:44] <jjesse> let me see how my day at work goes and i'll try to hack at it while i work
[02:45] <jsgotangco> ok please email the list about it if its going in or not
[02:45] <jsgotangco> i appreciate it
[02:45] <jjesse> no problem
[02:45] <jjesse> am i the only one doing kubuntu docs?
[02:46] <jsgotangco> unfortunately, yes
[02:46] <jjesse> wow i didn't realize that
[02:46] <jsgotangco> let me check on riddel
[02:48] <jsgotangco> if he's ok with no freeze, we'll fix the doc
[02:49] <jjesse> i see that chat on #kubuntu
[02:49] <jjesse> i'll try and get kquickguide done first and then move on 
[02:49] <jjesse> i guess i wasn't aware that i was the only kubuntu doc writer :(
[02:50] <jsgotangco> sorry about that i was quite busy with other stuff
[02:50] <jjesse> no worries i'll just trudge along
[02:52] <rob^> bloody gedit, buggy piece of crap
[02:53] <rob^> fuck, I just lost 10 mins worth of work :(
[02:55] <jsgotangco> k at least we have some more time for kubuntu
[02:56] <jsgotangco> i better take a rest first before i just drop
[02:56] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Good night. =)
[02:56] <jsgotangco> gahhh
[02:56] <jsgotangco> jbailey hi
[02:56] <jsgotangco> did you read my email?
[02:56] <jbailey> (I'm in exactly the wrong timezone for you guys, aren't I?)
[02:56] <jsgotangco> jbailey, no worries its only 9pm
[02:56] <jsgotangco> just been in irc all day
[02:56] <jbailey> Nope, I see it there, though.
[02:56] <jsgotangco> its about the scrollkeeper thing
[02:57] <jsgotangco> we still have the freeze for today
[02:57] <jbailey> I can take care of that packaging.
[02:57] <jbailey> Even with a freeze, I don't think there's any problem in normalising CSS and adding this to Yelp.
[02:57] <jbailey> (Since they aren't strings)
[02:57] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:59] <jsgotangco> jbailey, i have no idea how to register the doc in sk/yelp during stage 2
[02:59] <jbailey> I'm just trying to find it in the backscroll for the email to mdz.  Yous aid that your biggest worry was CSS and the scrollkeeper for the freeze rather than actual documentation changes, yes?
[02:59] <jbailey> Or were there doc changes, too?
[02:59] <jbailey> stage 2?
[03:00] <jbailey> You mean of the installer?
[03:00] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:00] <jbailey> I think just doing it in the postinst and doing the trick that other apps use if scrollkeeper isn't installed yet should work fine.
[03:00] <jbailey> cdbs / debhelper already have that magic.
[03:00] <jsgotangco> ahh
[03:00] <jsgotangco> im not worried about the css
[03:00] <jsgotangco> its already fixed atm
[03:01] <jsgotangco> just needs polishing to other docs
[03:01] <jbailey> Now that you've done that hackery, I'm not worried aboutyelp.
[03:01] <jbailey> So what else is there for documentation changes?
[03:01] <jsgotangco> just release notes now
[03:01] <jsgotangco> mdz was looking for it
[03:01] <jsgotangco> ngghhh
[03:01] <jbailey> If there isn't enough to bug mdz about, we can take the time in the next couple of weeks to get everything cleaned up in prep for dapper
[03:01] <jbailey> Release notes?  At this stage?
[03:01] <jbailey> That's insane.
[03:01] <jsgotangco> right
[03:02] <jbailey> The whole point of release notes are generally things that you can't know at this point, you would've documented / fixed them.
[03:02] <jsgotangco> i've indicated release notes as an exception to the freeze
[03:02] <jsgotangco> because of its nature
[03:03] <jsgotangco> other than that we're relatively safe
[03:03] <jbailey> Cool.
[03:03] <jbailey> I haven't seen a respone to my request for access yet.  What URL do you use for accessing svn?  I'd like to try it before I ask again.
[03:04] <jsgotangco> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[03:04] <jsgotangco> use my account if you want i dont mind
[03:04] <jbailey> Username and pass, or ssl cert?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> l/p
[03:04] <rob^> jsgotangco, ok all I need to do now is a quick proof read then I will email the patches
[03:05] <jsgotangco> ok i will wait
[03:05] <rob^> ah crap I missed one!
[03:07] <jsgotangco> hey George^Deka 
[03:07] <rob^> serves me right for letting two people go..
[03:08] <jsgotangco> rob^, ?
[03:08] <rob^> well the intention was good, but omg they messed it up
[03:09] <jjesse> the faqguide or something else?
[03:09] <rob^> faq guide
[03:09] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:09] <jsgotangco> its terribly inconsistent now
[03:09] <rob^> its almost fixed :)
[03:11] <jsgotangco> i gotta take a nap first
[03:11] <jsgotangco> jjesse, you still got svn access?
[03:12] <jjesse> yeah
[03:12] <jsgotangco> jjesse, can you patch a diff?
[03:12] <jjesse> yeah i can, not right now as i'm in windows andm y svn stuff is on my linux partittion
[03:12] <jjesse> but i can
[03:13] <jsgotangco> ok i need a favor, im in a terrible state atm i need to rest, if i don't get to patch rob^ 's diff can you do it if you are not busy?
[03:13] <jsgotangco> don't do it if you can't i can do it later
[03:13] <jjesse> sure no problem did rob^ already upload the diff?
[03:13] <jsgotangco> i just have to go offline for a while
[03:13] <rob^> no not yep
[03:13] <rob^> yet
[03:13] <jbailey> afk for a bit
[03:13] <jjesse> ok go offline for a while and if i have a chance i'll upload it when it comes out
[03:14] <jsgotangco> jjesse, thanks i'll look into the other kubuntu docs later
[03:14] <jsgotangco> we'll sort it out by this weekend
[03:14] <jsgotangco> ktnxbi
[03:26] <rob^> what is the update application called?
[03:27] <_jjesse> in ubuntu or kubuntu?
[03:27] <rob^> ubuntu
[03:27] <_jjesse> ubuntu it synatpci right? or did they change it?
[03:27] <rob^> the one that appears when you click show me on that popup
[03:28] <George^Deka> ubuntu update manager
[03:28] <rob^> thanks George^Deka 
[03:28] <jjesse> grin I haven't used ubuntu in awhile
[03:29] <George^Deka> i only knew cause i went and found it - i dont use it cause im on silly dial up - damn telstra !
[03:50] <jjesse> at least i'm not the only dial up user :(
[04:14] <rob^> is anyone here?
[04:14] <rob^> can we get the sections of the GNU GFDL on the one link (not expanded like they are now)?
[04:33] <gvrocha> Does anyone knows how hot a processor can get while not too loaded? I have just run acpi to find out mine is at 66C while not too loaded...
[04:34] <rob^> gvrocha, try #ubuntu
[05:01] <rob^> ping mpt
[05:03] <rob^> can someone commit those patches for me?
[05:03] <mpt> rob^: pong
[05:03] <rob^> mpt, ^
[05:04] <jjesse> did you send them to the list? i didn't see any patches come across
[05:04] <mpt> rob^: I don't have svn access, if that's what you're asking
[05:05] <rob^> yes
[05:05] <rob^> mpt, oh sorry
[05:05] <rob^> the faq guide is done now
[05:05] <rob^> once those patches are commited :)
[05:05] <jjesse> congrats
[05:05] <mdke> lemme see what I can do
[05:06] <rob^> wtf?
[05:06] <rob^> Your mail to 'ubuntu-doc' with the subject
[05:06] <rob^>     Faq Guide Finished
[05:06] <rob^> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval
[05:06] <rob^> the attachments must be too big
[05:06] <rob^> :)
[05:06] <rob^> ah: Message body is too big: 83765 bytes with a limit of 40 KB
[05:06] <mdke> yeah there is a limit
[05:06] <mdke> post the attachments individually?
[05:06] <rob^> will it still get thru?
[05:07] <mdke> if they are smaller than 40kb
[05:07] <mdke> they'll get through
[05:08] <rob^> ok holdon
[05:16] <rob^> that should be all nine of em
[05:17] <mdke> right I'll have a look
[05:18] <rob^> ok, the only thing I haven't done in those patches is mark all the sections "finished", apart from that its done
[05:18] <mdke> ok
[05:20] <mdke> rob^, what is the quick and easy command to apply em?
[05:21] <rob^> umm
[05:21] <rob^> jjesse, whats the easy way to apply diffs?
[05:23] <mdke> i'll figure it
[05:28] <rob^> dam, there are no svn docs on the website!
[05:29] <rob^> how stupid
[05:31] <rob^> apparently you just use patch
[05:31] <mdke> got it
[05:31] <mdke> i've done the first 4
[05:31] <mdke> revision 1738
[05:32] <rob^> cool
[05:34] <mdke> grr
[05:34] <mdke> can't get the fdl one to work
[05:34] <rob^> hmm
[05:34] <rob^> its in a different directory
[05:34] <mdke> yeah
[05:34] <mdke> i'm trying in the right folder
[05:35] <rob^> odd
[05:35] <rob^> what is it saying?
[05:35] <mdke> nothing, it just stops
[05:35] <mdke> hang on
[05:38] <mdke> they are just stopping...
[05:38] <mdke> matt@kallisto:~/ubuntu-docs/trunk/generic/faqguide/C$ patch -p0 > hardware.xml.diff 
[05:39] <rob^> I wonder if it is the revision number
[05:39] <mdke> perhaps because of the different revision
[05:39] <rob^> yeah
[05:39] <rob^> perhaps you needed to apply them all at once
[05:39] <rob^> just revert the four that you did, once you get all nine then patch it
[05:40] <mdke> how do I revert?
[05:40] <rob^> hmm.. good question
[05:40] <rob^> I know how to do it locally
[05:41] <mdke> i could try and edit the patch revision number?
[05:41] <rob^> I'll ask in #svn
[05:41] <rob^> might work, might cause pain though
[05:42] <mdke> doesn't seem to work
[05:43] <rob^> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch04s04.html#svn-ch-4-sect-4.2
[05:43] <rob^> check that out
[05:44] <rob^> reverting that commit might be painful too
[05:44] <mdke> let's try
[05:45] <rob^> ok
[05:45] <mdke>  svn merge -r 1738:1737 https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[05:45] <mdke> i tried that
[05:45] <rob^> sounds about right
[05:46] <rob^> did you do the rest?
[05:46] <mdke> doing it
[05:46] <rob^> ie svn status, svn diff etc
[05:46] <rob^> ah ok
[05:46] <mdke> i get the feeling it won't help though
[05:47] <mdke> ok i've reverted the changes, but the revision number is now 1739 :(
[05:47] <rob^> bugger..
[05:47] <rob^> what if I email you my working copies, you copy/paste then do a commit on them?
[05:48] <mdke> ok
[05:48] <mdke> matthew.east@breathe.com
[05:48] <rob^> ok hold on
[05:49] <mdke> sorry about this
[05:49] <rob^> nah np
[05:49] <rob^> we are both learning :)
[05:49] <mdke> yep
[05:49] <mdke> no idea if copy and paste will work
[05:50] <rob^> I think it might
[05:52] <mdke> hope so
[05:52] <mdke> let's have this email
[05:52] <rob^> gone
[05:52] <mdke> here it is
[05:53] <mdke> all the way around the world
[05:53] <rob^> I .tar.gz the faq guide WCs
[05:54] <mdke> works
[05:54] <rob^> nice!!
[05:54] <mdke> lemme do them all
[05:55] <mdke> ok done at revision 1741
[05:55] <mdke> phew
[05:55] <mdke> sorry about that
[05:55] <mdke> nice work!
[05:55] <rob^> :)
[05:56] <mdke> you can go to bed now...
[05:56] <rob^> yay
[05:56] <rob^> so tired..
[05:56] <mdke> i'll keep an eye on the cricket
[05:57] <rob^> oh I forgot about that
[05:57] <rob^> how are things going?
[05:57] <mdke> great first day
[05:57] <mdke> we're batting 288 for 5
[05:57] <mdke> it's been up and down
[05:57] <rob^> england?
[05:57] <mdke> your pie-eating, cheating son of a pirate Warne is doing well though
[05:57] <rob^> hehe
[05:57] <rob^> thats a good score though
[05:58] <mdke> the pitch is pretty solid
[05:58] <rob^> looks like you might win one finally
[05:58] <mdke> nah it's way too early for that
[05:58] <rob^> yeah
[05:58] <mdke> it's an average score i reckon
[05:59] <rob^> if you get bored, feel free to change "review" to "finished" on the faq guide ;)
[05:59] <rob^> yeah, expect australia to come out swinging
[05:59] <mdke> ok
[06:00] <rob^> cool
[06:00] <mdke> night mate
[06:00] <rob^> time for bed, gotta see the bank manager for my car loan tomorrow at 9am
[06:00] <rob^> :(
[06:00] <rob^> night, and thanks for ya help
[06:00] <mdke> good luck with that
[06:32] <jjesse> back sorry bout that
[08:36] <jjesse> updated kquickguide and it succesffuly built for me
[08:36] <jjesse> don't know what to do w/ it now :(
[09:44] <mdke> jjesse, 
[09:44] <mdke> around?
[09:45] <jjesse> yup
[09:45] <mdke> your last email to the list doesn't make sense
[09:45] <mdke> what is the question?
[09:46] <jjesse> besides making the changes  for adept in the kquickguide anything else need to get finished for kubuntu for doc string freeze day?
[09:46] <jjesse> adept being the new package management that will replace kynaptic
[09:46] <mdke> aha
[09:46] <mdke> basically, whatever document you can get ready to be released
[09:46] <mdke> on the kde side, what documents are finished?
[09:48] <jjesse> that is really it jscgotanco (spelling?) and i talked this morning, looking to see what else we talked about
[09:48] <jjesse> but i think right now kquickguide is it
[09:48] <mdke> about kubuntu?
[09:48] <Burgundavia> mdke, in terms of the quicktour and the doc freeze, the wordage is quite small. And the screenshots have to wait until Art Freeze at the end of the month
[09:48] <jjesse> yeah about kunbutnu
[09:49] <jjesse> man i'm having typing problems today
[09:49] <mdke> Burgundavia, well the screenshots won't get translated anyway
[09:49] <Burgundavia> mdke, look odd if a serbian doc has english screenshots
[09:49] <mdke> Burgundavia, yep, but what can you do
[09:49] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:49] <mdke> what state is the doc in now?
[09:50] <Burgundavia> one major push to get it done
[09:50] <Burgundavia> write the evo section, and then think hard about each section, possibly rearrange
[09:50] <mdke> got any time today?
[09:50] <Burgundavia> yes, right now
[09:51] <mdke> ok then I won't take up your time talking :D
[09:51] <Burgundavia> right
[09:51] <mdke> i'm gonna keep testing these pot's
[09:51] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:51] <Burgundavia> can you gen some pots of the quicktour
[09:51] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:53] <mdke> we can try
[09:53] <Burgundavia> it is strict XHTML, so it should work
[09:54] <mdke> also, we need to add it to the build stuff so that it get's built with gnome/$ make all
[09:55] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:55] <Burgundavia> I have no idea how to do that
[09:55] <mdke> i think i can do it
[09:55] <mdke> what files are needed
[09:55] <Burgundavia> for the pot?
[09:55] <mdke> the css is in the html itself right?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> just quicktour.html
[09:56] <mdke> ok and the screenshots?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> ya, embedded css
[09:56] <Burgundavia> don't have any yet
[09:56] <Burgundavia> also need the logo
[09:56] <mdke> where will they be?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> in the same folder
[09:56] <mdke> ok that is easy
[09:56] <mdke> everything in the same level
[09:57] <Burgundavia> the doc is meant to exist out of our controlled environment and thus I put all the stuff in one folder
[09:58] <mdke> that looks ok
[09:58] <mdke> i will edit the Makefile
[10:02] <mdke> done
[10:03] <Burgundavia> guy asks on the local lug list about linux and laptops
[10:03] <Burgundavia> and both robitaille and myself repsond with LaptopTestingTeam
[10:03] <Burgundavia> within 5 minutes of the mail hitting the list
[10:06] <mdke> you shouldn't be reading email!
[10:06] <Burgundavia> ouch
[10:06] <Burgundavia> alright, alright, going back to work
[10:07] <mdke> Burgundavia, html2po seems to work fine
[10:08] <mdke> no idea how it got on my system, but it seem to do the trick
[10:09] <mdke> the opposite (po2html) isn't on my system :(
[10:10] <Burgundavia> mdke, if I add more images to the quicktour, will they get built?
[10:10] <mdke> yeah it is set to copy the whole directory to build/
[10:10] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:11] <mdke> lemme run the build on the preview server
[10:16] <Burgundavia> ok, that looks like crap
[10:23] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/quicktour/
[10:24] <Burgundavia> nice
[10:24] <Burgundavia> how often is that preview generated?
[10:24] <mdke> daily
[10:28] <mdke> Burgundavia, can I suggest a colon instead of ... after Ubuntu in the AboutUbuntu section of the quicktour?
[10:29] <Burgundavia> sure
[10:52] <mdke> --> bed
[10:53] <mdke> night all
[10:53] <Burgundavia> mdke, night
[11:24] <judax> saw on the list that kquickguide was not validating, fixed it
[11:27] <Burgundavia> judax, thanks
[11:27] <judax> np
[11:33] <Burgundavia> salut rob^ 
[11:33] <rob^> hi Burgundavia 
[11:34] <rob^> some dhead started cutting tiles at 6:30am this morning
[11:34] <Burgundavia> ouch
[11:34] <rob^> wait until I finish nightshift at 6:30 on the next sunday.. 
[11:35] <rob^> gonna get out the mower
[11:35] <Burgundavia> rofl
[11:35] <rob^> and the wippersniper
[11:35] <rob^> umm snipper
[11:52] <mpt> sniper
[11:53] <Burgundavia> mpt, http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/quicktour/quicktour.html
[11:54] <mpt> Burgundavia: You want copyediting?
[11:54] <Burgundavia> mpt, yes
[11:54] <mpt> that does look pretty elegant, indeed
[11:55] <mpt> Ubuntu is an operating system that doesn't announce itself, so for the first sentence try "The Ubuntu team" or something like that
[11:56] <Burgundavia> "The Ubuntu team is proud to announce our 5.10 release, named Breezy Badger. Read on to find out about what makes Ubuntu  great, plus see the latest new features in 5.10."
[11:56] <mpt> yes
[11:56] <mpt> It's not exactly the most exciting paragraph in the world, but never mind that for now :-)
[11:56] <mpt> "is releases" -> "is released"
[11:57] <Burgundavia> oops, Madpilot pointed that out eariler but I forgot about it
[11:58] <mpt> The phrase "with support for eighteen months" is missing at least one word. With free support from Canonical? That can't be right. Perhaps "with security updates provided for eighteen months after each release"?
[11:59] <mpt> "Ubuntu: It's great" --> ""
[11:59] <Burgundavia> just kill that sentence?
[11:59] <mpt> "3 menus" --> "three menus"
[11:59] <Burgundavia> I wasn't to keen on it myself
[11:59] <mpt> yes, kill it unless there's something interesting to put there
[12:00] <Burgundavia> my only major concern right now is that we mix what is good about Ubuntu with what is good in Breezy
[12:01] <mpt> Well, how much of your target audience is people currently using 5.04 or 4.10, how much is people currently using some other Free OS, and how much is people currently using Windows/Mac OS?
[12:01] <Burgundavia> that is hard
[12:01] <mpt> "System allows you to" --> "And System lets you"
[12:01] <mpt> What's the purpose of this document?
[12:01] <mpt> Is it marketing?
[12:02] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:02] <mpt> So is it going to go on ubuntu.com?
[12:02] <Burgundavia> no idea
[12:02] <Burgundavia> I would like it to
[12:02] <Burgundavia> another likely target is the fridge
[12:02] <Burgundavia> I am also trying to make a pdf out of it