[12:01] <mdz> ok, I'm going to just rsync everything down and be a seed myself
[12:01] <maswan> mdz: well, you can wat and we'll see if it managed to pick up on install-ppc too?
[12:03] <maswan> ok, I seem to be seeding everything now.
[12:03] <Nafallo> maswan: have you got seeds directly from the servers or something? :-)
[12:03] <maswan> Nafallo: I downloaded the isos from a certain mirror and then started running a seeding client.
[12:04] <Nafallo> maswan: at home or at univ? :-)
[12:04] <maswan> Nafallo: univ
[12:04] <Nafallo> or both? ;-)
[12:04] <Nafallo> ah, nice
[12:04] <maswan> my test client was at home
[12:04] <Nafallo> I will pick torrent later then :-)
[12:04] <Nafallo> maswan: we have the se.releases... in the topic on #ubuntu.se ;-)
[12:05] <maswan> elmo: anyway, even if you don't get your seeding working right now, the 6 isos are seeded and it shouldn't be a blocker as long as the tracker stays up.
[12:05] <mdz> this will take about an hour
[12:05] <elmo> maswan: yeah, I'm assuming it's good ATM
[12:06] <elmo> unless someone tells me otherwise
[12:06] <elmo> there really isn't much more I can do anyway
[12:06] <mdz> maswan: your seed seems to be working well for all 6 now
[12:06] <mdz> so we can go ahead with the announcement, thanks
[12:06] <maswan> mdz: yeah, your client might have been slow in re-requesting new peers from the tracker, or something
[12:07] <maswan> or something else broke. now it works anyway. :)
[12:07] <torkel> maswan: are you running any seeding client at HPC2N?
[12:07] <maswan> torkel: nope, just using the non-production filesystem on farbror.
[12:08] <dieman> damn thing wasn't setup right
[12:08] <torkel> maswan: oh, come on... we need to keep up with ACC wasting bandwidth :-)
[12:08] <mdz> announcement is away
[12:08] <dieman> mirror.cs will have the cdimage when its done
[12:09] <dieman> only coming in at 500kB/s tho
[12:09] <maswan> torkel: feel free? :)
[12:09] <Nafallo> torkel: rock! :-)
[12:09] <dieman> but thats just rsync from archive.ubuntu.com
[12:09] <Kamion> elmo: source torrents gone
[12:09] <torkel> maswan: not now. I'm heading to bed
[12:09] <Nafallo> dieman: you could use se.archive.ubuntu.com ;-). I would think those have more bandwidth :-P
[12:10] <maswan> ehm. s/archive/releases/, right?
[12:10] <Lathiat> nooo se.archive is so starved for bandwidth
[12:10] <dieman> there we go
[12:10] <Riddell> Kamion, mdz: anything to be done about amd64 kubuntu live?
[12:10] <Lathiat> it wasn't pushing 1.4gbit/s out last relase, oh no :)
[12:10] <Nafallo> ah, right :-)
[12:10] <Nafallo> releases
[12:10] <Nafallo> Lathiat: hehe
[12:10] <dieman> yeah, i only get 2.25 MB/sec from se
[12:10] <maswan> well, right now we don't have any offloading hosts, so it is just the ftp cluster and a torrent seeding machine.
[12:10] <dieman> i get 8MB/s from us
[12:11] <Kamion> Riddell: frankly right now I'm in the mood to pretend I never heard any failure reports :P
[12:11] <maswan> so we'll probably top out at 700Mbit/s or so.
[12:11] <dieman> scrach that, peaks to 30, and then slows way the heck down
[12:11] <dieman> yeah, back to 8MB
[12:11] <Kamion> elmo: I don't know if you need to manually kill ubuntu-5.10-preview-src-* from the tracker
[12:12] <elmo> Kamion: dude, so not touching this fragile POS
[12:12] <Kamion> will it get there on its own?
[12:12] <elmo> Kamion: how do you mean?
[12:12] <maswan> it's working right now
[12:13] <Kamion> elmo: does the tracker get restarted when files disappear due to a trigger from little?
[12:13] <elmo> Kamion: in theory yes
[12:13] <elmo> have you already triggered little?
[12:13] <elmo> from little
[12:13] <mdz> thanks to everyone who helped with the push for preview
[12:13] <Kamion> in theory and practice, theory and practice are the same thing? :)
[12:13] <Kamion> elmo: yes
[12:13] <elmo> kamion: doh
[12:13] <elmo> kamion: ok, so good news and bad news
[12:13] <mdz> Riddell: can look at it now that preview is wrapped
[12:13] <elmo> bad news is, trigger is broken. good news is, trigger is broken. 
[12:14] <sabdfl> well done everybody
[12:14] <Kamion> hee
[12:14] <elmo> kamion: ATM, the tracker/seeds are working - I kind of want to leave them that way for now
[12:14] <mdz> Riddell: burning one now
[12:14] <elmo> kamion: and restarting them wipes them out for a good 10 minutes, and it's at best 50/50 on whether you end up with a working tracker
[12:15] <elmo> mdz: let me know when I should unfreeze breezy uploads
[12:15] <mjg59> crimsun: Cool - could you add details to the wiki at some stage?
[12:15] <elmo> s/when/if/, I guess
[12:16] <mdz> elmo: was thinking maybe we should leave them frozen for a day or so that upgrades are stable, but if upgrades are already tricky, we might as well let the fixes in
[12:16] <mdz> mvo: what's the upgrade situation like, wrt to metapackages etc?
[12:17] <mvo> mdz: readahead/readahead-list needs to be fixed, then it should work well
[12:17] <elmo> mvo: another problem with CD based upgrade is, any file overwrite errors kill it dead
[12:17] <sabdfl> elmo: can i see the bandwidth chart?
[12:17] <elmo> and leave the system in a very confusing-to-the-user state
[12:17] <mdz> Riddell: it's booting just fine for me here
[12:17] <elmo> sabdfl: sec
[12:18] <mvo> elmo: hm, what packages give us file override errors? 
[12:18] <Riddell> mdz: spooky
[12:18] <Kamion> 4 bytes/sec up. man, I'm such a good seeder
[12:18] <elmo> mvo: oo2
[12:19] <mvo> mdz: one think we may want to consider before final is if the cd based dist-upgrade should rewrite the sources.list to the new distro as well
[12:19] <mvo> elmo: and the problem is that apt/synaptic stops at the override error?
[12:20] <elmo> mvo: they don't stop, they just disappear
[12:20] <maswan> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/monitordata/index.html.en
[12:20] <maswan> se.releases bandwidth graph
[12:20] <mvo> elmo: they *disappear*? the errors?
[12:20] <Lathiat> it already peaked up? ;p
[12:20] <elmo> mvo: all the windows associated with the upgrade process disappeared, AFAICR
[12:20] <mdz> Riddell: boots all the way into KDE with no problems
[12:21] <mdz> Riddell: usplash, sound, everything
[12:21] <maswan> Lathiat: yeah, I'm a bit surprised, but hey.. :)
[12:21] <elmo> mvo: unfortunately, silbs was trying to do something semi-urgent at the time, so I didn't can't rember the exact sequence of events :(
[12:21] <mdz> mvo: I think cd-based upgrade between releases needs more spec work
[12:21] <mvo> elmo: so IOWs it crashs?
[12:21] <elmo> mvo: yes
[12:21] <mvo> mdz: ok, I agree. that's something for UBZ
[12:21] <Kamion> mdz: SHIP IT
[12:22] <elmo> mdz: dude, CD based upgrade happens when you put a CD in the drive already?
[12:22] <elmo> even if we don't advertise it, people are going to use it
[12:22] <mvo> elmo: I'll do a test cd-upgade from hoary->breezy now to see if I can reproduce the crash
[12:23] <Riddell> mdz: does that mean we can release kubuntu breezy preview?
[12:23] <mvo> elmo: the upgrade itself should work fine, the problem is that it needs hand-holding after the package upgrade (i.e. updating the sources.list with the synaptic repository editor for example)
[12:24] <elmo> mvo: yeah
[12:24] <Kamion> elmo: one minor snag is, we're going to have to get Kubuntu torrents in there somehow
[12:24] <mdz> Riddell: as far as I'm concerned, kubuntu live amd64 is blessable
[12:24] <elmo> Kamion: meh, ok, well let me know when - I'll play manual trigger
[12:24] <mdz> Riddell: 26951ba02ef1f1696233efd3b07cfac7  breezy-live-amd64.iso
[12:24] <mdz> Riddell: that's what I tested
[12:25] <Kamion> Riddell: say the word
[12:25] <Riddell> Kamion: go
[12:25] <Burgundavia> ogra, http://www.advogato.org/person/bwh/diary.html?start=27
[12:26] <mvo> elmo: silbs did a cd-based upgrade from hoary to breezy and it crashed in the middle of it, right? (/me tries to reproduce now)
[12:26] <Kamion> publishing
[12:26] <ogra> Burgundavia, thanks
[12:27] <elmo> mvo: yes, but only when she hit a file overwrite in oo2
[12:27] <elmo> make sure your hoary has that installed
[12:27] <elmo> or you have some other file overwrite to hit :)
[12:27] <silbs> mvo: yes. I had a hoary version of oo2 installed (in addition to oo1).  It was dealing with that that caused confusion.
[12:28] <elmo> damn, I keep forgetting silbs lurks in here
[12:29] <silbs> just passing by on my way to bed, heard sirens and came to see.
[12:29] <Keybuk> by watching nautilus updating its thumbnails, I just learned an interesting thing about BMP files -- they're stored backwards
[12:29] <mvo> elmo, silbs: thanks! (/me has some pretty broken deps to test the error reporting/handling in synaptic, but it may be a bug in the hoary version or something)
[12:29] <mdz> elmo: yeah, better stop making fun of her
[12:29] <Kamion> from now on all my world-killing weapons will be kept a TOTAL SECRET
[12:30] <silbs> elmo, mdz: I'm leaving now. You can talk about me again.
[12:30] <silbs> congrats all, well done.
[12:30] <elmo> silbs: we'll be sure to do that, in a couple of hours, to make sure your laptop's noises are suitably irritating
[12:30] <fabbione> night guys
[12:30] <fabbione> thanks for the ride :)
[12:31] <mdz> night fabbione
[12:31] <mvo> night fabbione 
[12:32] <ogra> night fabio
[12:32] <mvo> elmo: is there already a bug open for that file-override errors in oo2? if not, I'll open one once I have triggered it :)
[12:32] <mdz> sabdfl,Kamion: who can update the website?
[12:33] <elmo> mvo: not yet no
[12:33] <Kamion> mdz: www.u.c?
[12:33] <mvo> elmo: ok, thanks
[12:34] <Kamion> I think I can, or at least I used to be able to
[12:35] <dieman> hrm, so has anyone figured out this libpangohack.so issue with openoffice and mixing 32 and 64 bit binaries?
[12:35] <Kamion> yes, I can - I'll tweak /download/
[12:35] <dieman> it tries to call 64 bit stuff to print, and it breaks badly
[12:35] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[12:35] <dieman> because of the preload
[12:35] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[12:36] <elmo> Kamion: btw, little's down to 30% free, fyi.  if you don't care, let me know what I should reset the yellow-line alarm %-free to
[12:38] <dieman> fuck this
[12:38] <dieman> im goig to patch pango in ia32-libs-gtk
[12:38] <dieman> all this hassle for a one-liner?
[12:39] <Kamion> elmo: 20%
[12:39] <Kamion> elmo: it should get healthier when we're not building 10 extra manual sets of images a day, though
[12:40] <Kamion> anyone want to inspect http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ ? my additions are deliberately fairly brief
[12:40] <Kamion> might want to be a bit more adverty though
[12:41] <jbailey> Kamion: Doesn't seem to contain the word 'preview'.  What are we looking for?
[12:41] <jbailey> Ah, the page to commit.
[12:41] <jbailey> =)
[12:42] <Kamion> jbailey: reload
[12:42] <jbailey> Kamion: It looks like hte preview is codenamed "Breezy Badger".  Just tryig to think of how to word it differently.
[12:43] <Kamion> jbailey: try now?
[12:44] <jbailey> Looks better.  Maybe make it "The Breezy Badger" to be consistant with the preview line?
[12:45] <Kamion> a news item wouldn't hurt either, but I have no idea how to do those
[12:45] <Kamion> jbailey: ok
[12:45] <BenC> hmm, doing "Restart" on breezy live-cd on my G5 just ends up dropping to a shell prompt
[12:45] <BenC> goes all the way to "Restarting System" and then doesn't
[12:46] <Kamion> does a normal 'reboot' or 'shutdown -r now' work?
[12:49] <sabdfl> Kamion: page looks good, thanks
[12:51] <Riddell> ogra: booting by typing workstation at yaboot didn't work
[12:51] <ogra> oh
[12:51] <dieman> Kamion: while you're there, could you fix ftp.cs.umn.edu ->mirror.cs.umn.edu?
[12:51] <ogra> Kamion, didnt you make the changes to yaboot ?
[12:52] <dieman> Kamion: i've emailed mirrors@ twice i think now.
[12:53] <ogra> Riddell, could you just do a normal install then ? 
[12:53] <Kamion> sabdfl: cool
[12:53] <Riddell> ogra: doing that, seems to be working so far (1/3rd through installing the base system)
[12:53] <ogra> ok
[12:53] <Kamion> dieman: ok, one sec
[12:53] <dieman> thanks
[12:53] <dieman> i want to kill the old mirror, and thats part of the reason i keep it around
[12:54] <dieman> i'll email -users sometime tonight about it changing too
[12:54] <Kamion> 404 Not Found
[12:54] <Kamion> The requested URL '/pub/ubuntu-releases/' was not found on this server.
[12:54] <dieman> ints ubuntu-rleeases
[12:54] <dieman> in the root
[12:54] <Kamion> ah, 'twas same on ftp.
[12:54] <dieman> mirror.cs.umn.edu/ubuntu-releases
[12:54] <Kamion> or not
[12:54] <dieman> no, its a change
[12:55] <Kamion> dieman: ok, cool, sorted
[12:55] <dieman> ok
[12:55] <dieman> thanks
[12:55] <Kamion> dieman: I see you have the preview already too, I'll put your mirror up at the top as well if that's ok
[12:55] <dieman> machine isn't as fast as the other us/se mirrors but its not bad
[12:55] <dieman> sure
[12:55] <dieman> it can do 100mbps
[12:55] <dieman> i need to get it a gigE card
[12:56] <Kamion> ogra: no, not yet
[12:56] <ogra> Kamion, none yet ? 
[12:56] <Kamion> $ grep edubuntu ubuntu/status
[12:56] <Kamion>   powerpc edubuntu bootloader config fixups (workstation)
[12:56] <Kamion> (my to-do list)
[12:56] <ogra> ok
[12:56] <dieman> it might still be rsyncing the
[12:57] <Kamion> sorry, I did mention it at the time and you didn't seem to be saying it was massively urgent so I put other things ahead of it
[12:57] <Kamion> dieman: looks complete at a quick glance
[12:57] <Kamion> dieman: could you configure it to honour the .htaccess files there?
[12:57] <Kamion> that way it'll get the pretty header and footer
[12:59] <dieman> ok
[12:59] <dieman> i'll move it to apache sometime, i guess
[12:59] <dieman> i dont know if thttpd will do it
[01:00] <Kamion> ah, didn't realise that was thttpd
[01:00] <Lathiat> did dbuds behavior change to allow anyone on the system bus
[01:00] <Kamion> not important enough to change your server arrangements just for that :)
[01:00] <Lathiat> *dbus
[01:02] <dieman> apache might just be fine on there, but i know thttpd is stupidly fast.
[01:04] <Kamion> certainly for static files it'll be a win over apache
[01:05] <Riddell> Kamion: what's the status of releasing kubuntu ISOs?
[01:06] <Kamion> Riddell: sorry, got distracted by other things - they're syncing to mirrors now
[01:06] <elmo> Kamion: I have a script for that ;)
[01:07] <Kamion> elmo: ... which mustn't have been run since hoary :P
[01:07] <Kamion> I'm nearly done anyway
[01:07] <Kamion> moving stuff from "Other mirrors" further up
[01:07] <elmo> Kamion: right
[01:08] <elmo> given releases hasn't changed since then ;P
[01:08] <Kamion> yeah, but the list of mirrors that managed to grab it has
[01:08] <Lathiat> .
[01:08] <Kamion> anyway, much better now, only three mirrors in the dead list at the bottom
[01:09] <Kamion> and the Norwegian mirror has the preview
[01:13] <Nafallo> hmm, I thought that was done with pulling :-P
[01:13] <Nafallo> or pushing rather...
[01:14] <Kamion> not all
[01:16] <tseng> jdub: ping
[01:17] <crimsun> mjg59: sure, will do
[01:18] <jdub> tseng: pong
[01:19] <tseng> jdub: so my blog was down for a few days
[01:19] <tseng> jdub: its back, p.u.c doesnt seem to care
[01:19] <tseng> jdub: (not picking up new posts)
[01:20] <Kamion> elmo: Kubuntu images are on our mirrors now though not the Swedish ones yet
[01:20] <elmo> nobody    1540  0.7  0.0   3680  1912 ?        SNs  00:12   0:03  \_ rsync --daemon
[01:20] <Kamion> so should be torrentable
[01:20] <elmo> they're syncing
[01:20] <elmo> oh, ok
[01:20] <Kamion> yeah, I'm not worried, the Swedish bit should've been in parens or something
[01:21] <elmo> torrent kicked
[01:21] <Kamion> cheers
[01:22] <Kamion> I really should've poolonly'd kubuntu a while ago, oh well
[01:22] <Riddell> Kamion: what's the url?
[01:22] <jdub> tseng: i don't have access to the planet install to fiddle :-|
[01:22] <Kamion> Riddell: http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/5.10/
[01:22] <tseng> jdub: ok rock on. other planets picked it right up
[01:22] <tseng> jdub: obviously no emergency, though
[01:22] <Kamion> Riddell: will only work some of the time, it's round-robin DNS and 2/6 have the files
[01:23] <Kamion> Riddell: make obvious changes to the URLs in the Ubuntu announcement to get explicit US and Sweden links, if you like
[01:24] <Kamion> http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/releases/kubuntu/5.10/ has got just install-amd64 so far
[01:24] <Kamion> http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/5.10/ is working on it
[01:25] <jdub> Lathiat: you became a member last week or so, right?
[01:25] <Lathiat> jdub: yup
[01:25] <Lathiat> last CC meeting, approved as MOTU last TB meeting
[01:25] <jdub> with the "best wiki home page ever" as i recall
[01:25] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:26] <mvo> elmo: filed #14997 about the ooo2 upgrade issue, no crash here, I'll try harder now (to make it crash)
[01:26] <Lathiat> silly redhat
[01:26] <desrt> mxpxpod; bug submitted
[01:27] <mxpxpod> desrt: awesome
[01:27] <mxpxpod> desrt: does it do it on i386?
[01:27] <desrt> x86 is fine
[01:28] <mxpxpod> lovely
[01:29] <jdub> Lathiat: do you have a hackergotchi?
[01:29] <mxpxpod> desrt: now, if we can just get it fixed somehow
[01:29] <Lathiat> jdub: umm, i have a southpark face
[01:29] <Lathiat> (no)
[01:29] <desrt> mxpxpod; i assigned the bug to martin pitt.  he owns an ibook
[01:29] <desrt> :)
[01:29] <mxpxpod> sweet
[01:30] <desrt> it'll probably be fixed in a day or two knowing how things go :P
[01:31] <mxpxpod> probably
[01:31] <mxpxpod> desrt: have you tried usplash?
[01:31] <mxpxpod> on ppc
[01:32] <jbailey> I should reboot and see what it looks like now.
[01:32] <desrt> no
[01:32] <desrt> is it special?
[01:32] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I'm not sure that it works
[01:32] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Oh?
[01:32] <jbailey> mxpxpod: What happens for you?
[01:32] <mxpxpod> jbailey: you can try it, but last time for me it just did the same thing as always
[01:32] <mxpxpod> this service starting...     [ok] 
[01:33] <jbailey> As always?  The code to make it work on ppc only went in last night. =)
[01:33] <mxpxpod> jbailey: yeah, I downloaded it this morning and tried it out
[01:33] <dieman> heh
[01:33] <dieman> someone just rsynced off of me
[01:33] <dieman> i think
[01:33] <dieman> nifty
[01:33] <Riddell> ogra: edubuntu powerpc installs and boots just the same as ubuntu (but the kdeedu installed)
[01:33] <dieman> was doing 8mbps or so
[01:33] <dieman> nothing like the se mirror :)
[01:33] <jbailey> Riddell: Doing kedubuntu as well?
[01:33] <Nafallo> dieman: ;-)
[01:34] <ogra> Riddell, yes, with the added artwork thats a workstation install...
[01:34] <mxpxpod> also, another oddity is that when I boot into linux, it says at the start: init: line 91 chmod doesn't exist on /
[01:34] <jdub> elmo: planet update please, when you have a moment :-)
[01:34] <Riddell> jbailey: breezy + 1 :)
[01:34] <ogra> Riddell, thanks for testing :)
[01:34] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Update your busybox-initramfs and regenerate the initramfs to solve that.
[01:34] <jdub> elmo: oh, wait a sec, mirror hasn't finished
[01:34] <Nafallo> jdub: did you ever add my blog btw? :-)
[01:35] <mxpxpod> jbailey: huh?
[01:35] <mxpxpod> jbailey: how do I regenerate my initramfs?
[01:35] <jdub> Nafallo: yep!
[01:35] <jbailey> mxpxpod: That chmod error should have been fixed about a week ago.
[01:35] <Nafallo> jdub: yay! I was holding off for an ack-mail ;-)
[01:35] <jbailey> mxpxpod: mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)
[01:35] <Nafallo> jdub: I should start blogging again soon then, and thanx and goodmorning :-)
[01:35] <Lathiat> jdub: thanks
[01:36] <jdub> hrm, having trouble mirroring
[01:36] <jbailey> mxpxpod: If you weren't regenerating your initramfs, then I'm surprised you saw any graphics screen at all on ppc...
[01:36] <mxpxpod> jbailey: didn't know that I had to update it
[01:37] <jbailey> mxpxpod: After the freeze is done, the new usplash package and such will try to update it automatically.
[01:38] <mxpxpod> wow, it takes a while to mkinitramfs
[01:39] <mxpxpod> ok, let's reboot and see what's up
[01:43] <Riddell> Kamion: are there any .torrent files for the Kubuntu CDs?
[01:44] <mxpxpod> jbailey: holy crap,that's sweet
[01:44] <Kamion> Riddell: sure, they should be on mirrors or syncing to them
[01:45] <TheMuso> Has anybody had trouble rsyncing the preview iso images? I get the message: skipping non-regular file "ubuntu-5.10-preview-install-i386.iso" when I try to fetch the image.
[01:46] <jbailey> mx|gone: =)
[01:46] <Kamion> TheMuso: ubuntu-5.10-preview-install-i386.iso is a symlink to ../.pool/somethingorother.iso - make your rsync follow symlinks?
[01:46] <mx|gone> jbailey: gotta get going... talk to you later
[01:47] <Kamion> -L
[01:47] <jbailey> mx|gone: Post preview it will update automatically.  Glad it works for you.
[01:47] <jbailey> mx|gone: Be well. =)
[01:47] <TheMuso> ah thanks.
[01:47] <mx|gone> jbailey: also, the chmod thing is fixed now
[01:47] <mx|gone> ok, now I'm really gone
[01:48] <mx|gone> jbailey: now, if we can just get pbbuttonsd to quit eating all the cpu on boot
[01:48] <mx|gone> :)
[01:49] <jbailey> mx|gone: Yes.  It only happens randomly for me here.
[01:54] <Riddell> Kamion: hmm, none of the mirrors have picked up any of the .torrent files
[01:55] <Nafallo> Riddell: http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/5.10/ yes, they have.
[01:56] <Riddell> Nafallo: I mean for kubuntu
[01:56] <Kamion> Riddell: it's not a problem, the other files you're seeing are all symlinks which confuses the ordering
[01:56] <Nafallo> Riddell: ah, that's not done syncing for se. :-)
[01:56] <Kamion> Riddell: and actually I just reloaded http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/5.10/ four times and saw torrents every time
[01:56] <Riddell> ok, I'll just be patient :)
[01:57] <Kamion> Riddell: the UK mirrors have them, the SE ones not yet
[01:58] <dieman> yay. 15mbps
[01:59] <Nafallo> Kamion: do you know if se. uses push to get the updates? :-)
[02:00] <Kamion> Nafallo: yes
[02:00] <Nafallo> thought so :-)
[02:00] <Kamion> Nafallo: 19:52 < elmo> Kamion: triggering syowa triggers us + se
[02:01] <Nafallo> yay! that's cool :-)
[02:02] <Nafallo> and then se triggers some other mirrors?
[02:02] <jdub> boh, can't get to preview through cdimage.ubuntu.com
[02:02] <Nafallo> jdub: to lazy to type releases? ;-)
[02:03] <jdub> sweden is giving me the flick doing that
[02:03] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:12] <jordi> mdz: you popped the trunk
[02:16] <mdz> jordi: yes
[02:17] <mdz> jordi: your turn
[02:17] <mdz> jordi: language pack exports from rosetta!
[02:18] <jordi> mdz: that should be done or about to be done 
[02:18] <mdz> jordi: I have heard this story before
[02:18] <desrt> is there a backlog of ubuntu packages somewhere?
[02:18] <desrt> like, an archive of all the previous versions
[02:18] <mdz> desrt: morgue.ubuntu.com
[02:18] <jordi> mdz: don't say you didn't get your apt patch
[02:18] <desrt> awesome!
[02:18] <jordi> even if you broke it a lot
[02:18] <mdz> jordi: I uploaded it
[02:18] <mdz> jordi: UNANNOUNCED
[02:19] <jordi> mdz: heh, funny, you got even more heat for the c++ stuff, didn't you? :)
[02:20] <mdz> jordi: I hate c++
[02:20] <mdz> jordi: want to maintain apt?
[02:20] <jordi> mdz: at most, I'd like to fix all those i18n bugs.
[02:21] <jordi> BUT IT REMAINS YOURS
[02:34] <Riddell> bah, none of the kubuntu torrents are working
[02:34] <bur[n] er> who wants that kubuntu stuff anyway? ;)
[02:42] <Keybuk> anyone else seen the mtr bug where it gets rather confused when you have more than one mtr banging away at the same host? :p
[02:57] <ogra> mdz, ping
[02:59] <BenC> anyone using mol?
[03:00] <ogra> BenC, there are some users on the ubuntu-users ML 
[03:00] <desrt> cdrtools is in serious need of an autoconf makeover
[03:02] <desrt> s/autoconf/automake/
[03:02] <Lathiat> BenC: what to use the wireless? ;p
[03:06] <desrt> this schily makefile system is _the suck_
[03:08] <mdz> ogra: yes?
[03:09] <bddebian> mol?
[03:09] <ogra> mdz, so what do i do with edubuntu now ? 
[03:09] <Riddell> elmo: if you could seed the kubuntu torrents that would be great
[03:09] <mdz> ogra: what works and what doesn't?  what  blockers does it have?
[03:10] <elmo> Riddell: they are seede
[03:10] <elmo> d
[03:10] <ogra> mdz, the ppc yaboot changes arent in, i have found no amd64 tester yet (mvo wants to test tomorrow, he was to tired)
[03:10] <mdz> ogra: what has been tested, and what remains untested?
[03:10] <ogra> mdz, i386 is ok with two manual steps
[03:11] <mdz> ogra: 1. fix any blocker bugs, 2. test every iso, 3. release
[03:11] <ogra> mdz, ltsp-build-client needed a udeb 
[03:11] <BenC> I think I found what I need for mol to work
[03:11] <BenC> I was booting osx tiger with it, and mol needs a patch
[03:11] <jsgotangco> ogra, you mean by amd64, on the server? i can grab an iso now
[03:11] <ogra> mdz, the source is up for review through Kamion... on rookery
[03:12] <ogra> jsgotangco, that'd be cool... 
[03:12] <ogra> mdz, additionally the patch update i sent you for ltsp would be needed for a complete automatic install...
[03:13] <ogra> mdz, the missing pieces are listed on http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
[03:15] <mdz> ogra: check the restart patch into baz, upload ltsp and tell me where to merge it from
[03:15] <ogra> mdz, did you chack my ltsp archive ? i'm not sure if i did it right
[03:15] <ogra> check even
[03:15] <mdz> ogra: for the mirror stuff, you ought to be using the apt cache.  all of the debs are already copied to the hard drive, so there is no reason to tell the user to reinsert the CD
[03:16] <ogra> mdz, i do it before reboot with the udeb, "Build LTSP chroot" is also a point in the installer menu...
[03:16] <mdz> ogra: your email has a patc hattached to it
[03:16] <mdz> ogra: not an archive or a url for an archive
[03:16] <ogra> mdz, about a week before...
[03:17] <tseng> mdz: would it be possible to have katie mails redirected temporarily while my server is dead?
[03:17] <tseng> mdz: it would be good to know where uploads are going
[03:17] <mdz> ogra: I don't have it
[03:17] <ogra> mdz, ... when you asked me for an arch repo
[03:17] <mdz> ogra: if you are blocked on me looking at something, you need to give me the information now, not send me looking for it.  i don't have time
[03:17] <jcole> how do i make apt install suggests/recommended packages automatically?
[03:18] <mdz> tseng: what?
[03:18] <ogra> mdz, from my mail from aug 30: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/archive/ogra@ubuntu.com--ltsp
[03:18] <tseng> mdz: my mail server is dead, as a side effect i dont get mails from katie. is there a way to send them somewhere else for now?
[03:18] <mdz> ogra: baz merge ...?
[03:18] <mdz> tseng: just for you? no, I doubt it
[03:19] <mdz> tseng: they'll be queued and sent whenyou r server comes back up
[03:19] <tseng> mdz: ok, thanks. hopefully tommorow then.
[03:19] <mdz> tseng: you can read breezy-changes meanwhile
[03:19] <tseng> mdz: that works when things are accepted :)
[03:20] <jcole> i'll just write a script to parse the apt-get install simulate output...brb
[03:21] <mdz> ogra: I assume you mean ltsp--ogra--0
[03:21] <ogra> err, yes
[03:21] <mdz> ogra: that branch has a lot of other changes in it
[03:21] <mdz> I can't merge it as-is
[03:22] <mdz> forget it; I will commit the patch separately to my archive
[03:22] <ogra> hmm, but you wont have the themeable ldm from august then :/
[03:37] <mjg59> Damnit.
[03:37] <mjg59> The release is the week after Linuxexpo
[03:38] <jsgotangco> yay
[03:38] <mjg59> How was this DISASTER allowed to happen?
[03:38] <bddebian> heh
[03:38] <elmo> I blame www.dccalliance.biz
[03:38] <Nafallo> lol
[03:38] <mjg59> elmo: Seen http://lists.userlinux.com/pipermail/discuss/2005-September/007379.html ?
[03:39] <elmo> mjg59: oh yes
[03:41] <elmo> does anyone know how to stream from xmms to a shoutcast (or similar) server with ogg rather than mp3?
[03:42] <Lathiat> elmo: hrm
[03:42] <Lathiat> elmo: icecast i think does the ogg stuff
[03:42] <Lathiat> elmo: no idea about xmms
[03:47] <mjg59> Hm. Anyone know why the archive files from pipermail don't seem to be mboxes?
[03:47] <daniels> they're special
[03:56] <BenC> yay, mol booting macosx tiger
[03:56] <BenC> need to point mol maintainer to the patches
[03:57] <mjg59> Ah. I can download the entire archive.
[03:57] <mjg59> That'll do.
[04:29] <mp1> whoa, just reported bug 15000
[04:29] <infinity> And thanks to our community commitment to never have more than 15,000 bugs, we can now all stop working and shut down the archive.
[04:30] <infinity> \o/
[04:30] <bddebian> infinity: :-)
[04:30] <mpt> But you see, infinity, that's why Malone exists
[04:30] <mpt> So we can start again from #1
[04:30] <infinity> Clever.
[04:30] <bddebian> Not quite, we have several on Malone already too :-)
[04:31] <infinity> When Malone hits 15,000, do we switch to debbugs?
[04:31] <mpt> Yes, about 2000
[04:31] <Nafallo> lol
[04:31] <mpt> So Malone will last us for a few more months yet
[04:31] <bddebian> hehe
[04:31] <mpt> I reported Malone #1000, that was prize enough
[04:31] <slomo> daniels: regarding #14993... will you pull the via driver vom HEAD for breezy?
[04:31] <bddebian> heh
[04:32] <ajmitch> I guess quite a few of those 2000 bugs are from mpt anyway
[04:32] <bddebian> ajmitch: lol
[04:32] <mpt> Eventually I'll catch up to the 140 or so I reported about Mozilla
[04:33] <ajmitch> mpt: you're at 82, according to your karma page
[04:33] <ajmitch> so it won't take long
[04:34] <mpt> Yeah, but about 138 of those are about Launchpad itself
[04:34] <mpt> so they don't really count
[04:34] <mpt> er, about 78 of those, I mean
[04:34] <daniels> slomo: probably not, to be honest; not at this late stage
[04:34] <infinity> Yeah, I get 138 and 78 mixed up all the time, too.
[04:35] <daniels> slomo: it's a big change to backport, and the via driver is notoriously regression-happy
[04:37] <slomo> daniels: hm :(
[04:37] <slomo> daniels: that bugreport was by a friend of mine... that's why i ask ;)
[04:38] <slomo> daniels: i'll probably create some packages for him with the new driver then...
[04:39] <daniels> okay
[04:39] <daniels> i just can't guarantee that we won't be in regression city between preview and final if I backport it
[04:42] <slomo> yeah... i understand... would it help if i write upstream and ask if they can guarantee that there were no regressions?
[04:43] <mjg59> NO, NO, NO REGRESSIONS HERE
[04:43] <mjg59> Oh. You mean those regressions?
[05:02] <slomo> ok, let's build xorg ;)
[05:10] <khermans> how can I submit out sourceforge deb binary into the offical repos?
[05:10] <khermans> or how does this process work?
[05:41] <mdz> jbailey: have you changed your email preferences in bugzilla or something?  it says it is excluding you from mailings
[05:53] <jsgotangco> mdz, docs are frozen now
[05:53] <jsgotangco> we'll put up the pot files for translation
[05:54] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:54] <jsgotangco> morning fabbione
[05:58] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[06:13] <themikester60> does anyone have any news about the breezy preview?
[06:13] <daniels> what, other than 'it's out'?
[06:14] <infinity> themikester60 : /topic
[06:14] <themikester60> its not really support if i just ask for news
[06:15] <infinity> Further down the topic.
[06:15] <themikester60> ah right, i eat my words then sorry
[06:15] <daniels> themikester60: i think he was more talking about the bit where it says 'breezy preview is out', with a link to the ubuntu-announce list ...
[06:30] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[06:34] <fabbione> mdz: permission to upload fix for #14726, the submitter is right and it's one line change in an init script.
[06:37] <daniels> fabbione: mmm?
[06:37] <fabbione> daniels: did you have any time to look at xfs anymore?
[06:38] <fabbione> otherwise i can poke it today
[06:38] <daniels> not yet, sorry
[06:38] <fabbione> ok i am on it
[06:38] <fabbione> if that's ok with you
[06:38] <daniels> i had a quick look, but I've been more distracted with fixing the maintainer scripts for preview and also libxt
[06:38] <daniels> yeah, that's great, thanks a lot
[06:38] <fabbione> no problem
[06:38] <jammcq> mdz: hey, I build a breezy box tonight, plugged a thin client in, turned it on, and the sucker booted :)
[06:38] <fabbione> i have just been slightly busy with some -security stuff
[06:38] <fabbione> jammcq: yo :)
[06:39] <jsgotangco> yeah it works
[06:39] <jammcq> hey fabbione, how's it going?
[06:39] <jsgotangco> its actually fast
[06:39] <fabbione> jammcq: just woke up.. i barely feel alive
[06:39] <fabbione> you?
[06:39] <jammcq> heh, i'm just getting ready for bed
[06:39] <daniels> fabbione: (also I've been pretty sick for a while, so not been at full effectiveness)
[06:40] <mdz> jammcq: groovy
[06:40] <fabbione> daniels: yeah.. i have been sick too for almost a week...
[06:40] <fabbione> today i almost feel 100%
[06:40] <mdz> jammcq: in the excitement I forgot to tell you when preview was out; I guess you got the word though
[06:40] <jammcq> mdz: yeah, the docs don't say that you have to start dhcpd, portmap and nfs-kernel-server tho
[06:40] <fabbione> more energy and more power to do stuff
[06:40] <mdz> fabbione has been at death's door
[06:41] <mdz> jammcq: that's a bug I just fixed today
[06:41] <jammcq> mdz: ah, cool
[06:41] <jsgotangco> mdz, so edubuntu doesn't need any configuration anymore?
[06:41] <mdz> jammcq: dhcp and nfs-kernel-server, anyway.  you shouldn't have to touch portmap in any case
[06:41] <jammcq> and I saw that problem, where the first time I boot the client, it fails at the nfs mount.  But then I rebooted the client, and it worked fine
[06:41] <mdz> jsgotangco: you need to run ltsp-build-client manually for now, but ogra is working on that
[06:41] <jsgotangco> ahh
[06:41] <mdz> jammcq: yeah, that's a tricky one, that is
[06:42] <jsgotangco> i did his instructions last night and it worked nicely except i had to reboot the client
[06:42] <mdz> jammcq: nobody sees that problem in ltsp-land, eh?
[06:42] <jammcq> nope
[06:42] <jammcq> but overall, this is VERY impressive
[06:43] <mdz> it's pretty basic, but has a lot of potential
[06:43] <jammcq> yessir
[06:43] <mdz> montreal will be fun
[06:43] <jammcq> i'm anxious to see where we all go with it
[06:43] <mdz> we'll be able to get on with the more interesting stuff
[06:43] <jsgotangco> ive been testing some of the educ apps in edubuntu most of them already work
[06:43] <mdz> jsgotangco: I should hope so; it's quite late in the game ;-)
[06:44] <jsgotangco> its very much usable
[06:48] <jammcq> i'm gonna boot my main desktop via breezy, see how well it detects my 23" monitor.  brb
[06:50] <fabbione> mdz: sorry.. did you read my upload permission request? ntp lands in main...
[06:50] <mdz> fabbione: no, I didn't
[06:50] <fabbione> mdz: permission to upload fix for #14726, the submitter is right and it's one line change in an init script.
[06:51] <fabbione> (just copy/paste)
[06:51] <mdz> fabbione: yes, fine
[06:51] <fabbione> ok thanks
[06:51] <mdz> I scrolled up :-)
[06:51] <mdz> fabbione: uploads are still queued for now
[06:52] <fabbione> yeah i read that yesterday night
[06:55] <daniels> mdz: ping
[06:55] <mdz> daniels: I've been talking in the channel for the past 15 minutes...
[06:55] <daniels> mdz: in any case
[06:55] <daniels> mdz: permission to introduce a new binary package or three
[06:56] <mdz> daniels: specifically?
[06:56] <daniels> mdz: libfontcache is currently only being shipped libfontcache.so.x.x and libfontcache.so.x with libxfont
[06:56] <daniels> turns out xfs needs it to work properly, so I'd like to give it its own packages
[06:57] <fabbione> daniels:hold on.. i can probably workaround that 
[06:57] <mdz> I don't follow...what's being shipped in which package(s) currently, and what of that do you want to move to new packages?
[06:57] <daniels> mdz: libxfont1 ships libxfont.so.1 and libfontcache.so.1
[06:57] <mdz> or is it something we aren't shipping at all currnently?
[06:57] <daniels> mdz: there is no libfontcache.so
[06:59] <mdz> fabbione: ?
[06:59] <fabbione> mdz: that makes xfs build, but not link properly (there are no errors in the build log tho)
[06:59] <fabbione> so xfs fails to start
[06:59] <fabbione> mdz: i can workaround linking directly. probably
[06:59] <mdz> xfs is uiverse
[06:59] <mdz> universe
[07:00] <fabbione> mdz: yes and you still larted me for saying that a few days back :)
[07:00] <fabbione> mdz: so i am fixing an xfs bug that's the result of the first one
[07:00] <mdz> fabbione: this is a regression?
[07:01] <fabbione> mdz: compared to hoary, yes
[07:01] <fabbione> it doesn't start
[07:01] <mdz> argh
[07:01] <mdz> fabbione: what's your proposed workaround?
[07:01] <fabbione> mdz: let me see first what is required to fix it properly and if we can workaround it
[07:02] <fabbione> mdz: in theory just ld xfs /usr/lib/libxfontcache.so.0 should do
[07:02] <fabbione> that will avoid to add another set of pkgs...
[07:02] <fabbione> but it's HACKISH
[07:03] <fabbione> ok just gimme a few minutes to test.. ok?
[07:03] <mdz> why not just add a .so symlink to libxfont1?
[07:03] <mdz> we can split it up after breezy if that's the right long-term solution
[07:04] <daniels> i could add it to libxfont-dev if you liked
[07:04] <daniels> (the .so)
[07:05] <elmo> WTF.  WE'VE (preview-)RELEASED PEOPLE.  USE UP SOME BANDWIDTH ALREADY.
[07:05] <daniels> elmo: hey, I'm working on today's upload of xorg.  give it some time.
[07:05] <infinity> elmo : Aww, are you feeling underappreciated?
[07:05] <jdub> elmo: hasn't hit any of the news sites yet
[07:05] <fabbione> daniels: no.. it's not that..
[07:06] <fabbione> daniels: xfs is linked with libfontcache..
[07:06] <fabbione> daniels: i think it's a bug in libfontcache
[07:06] <daniels> fabbione: ...
[07:06] <da_bon_bon> hi all.. does breezy usplash need framebuffer console ?
[07:06] <daniels> fabbione: so the ld xfs /usr/lib/libfontcache.so.0 thing won't work
[07:06] <mdz> da_bon_bon: yep
[07:06] <daniels> da_bon_bon: well, yes
[07:06] <fabbione> ldd /usr/bin/xfs |grep cache
[07:06] <fabbione>         libfontcache.so.0 => /usr/lib/libfontcache.so.0 (0xb7cf4000)
[07:07] <fabbione> this is from the pkg in archive
[07:07] <fabbione> so it is linked with libfontcache
[07:07] <mdz> elmo: dude, we had three mirrors from the start, including us where people were actually awake at the time
[07:07] <da_bon_bon> mdz, daniels: sorry to be asking here .. but is i810 framebuffer console enabled ? i think there is a special driver for i810 fb else it wont work
[07:07] <daniels> da_bon_bon: it just uses vga, which works everywhere
[07:07] <mdz> da_bon_bon: it uses vga16fb, which works on i810
[07:07] <fabbione> brb
[07:07] <jammcq> ok, my Hp thin client booted, but the 23" flat panel wasn't very pretty
[07:07] <da_bon_bon> mdz: ok.. but vga16fb gives very less colors..
[07:07] <jammcq> not surprised tho
[07:08] <mdz> da_bon_bon: so it goes
[07:08] <da_bon_bon> daniels: vgafb wont work on i810
[07:08] <daniels> da_bon_bon: it works fine on my i855
[07:08] <mdz> da_bon_bon: yes, it does.
[07:08] <daniels> da_bon_bon: it works fine on many other i8xx devices out there
[07:08] <mdz> jammcq: does it not support DDC or something?
[07:08] <daniels> da_bon_bon: if you want a better resolution and accelerated drawing, and better colours, sure you need the i8xx fb
[07:08] <jammcq> hmm, dunno.  it's a fairly new monitor
[07:08] <daniels> da_bon_bon: but the i8xx fb driver doesn't work on any laptops.  so it's kind of useless.
[07:08] <mdz> jammcq: what's the size of the panel (pixels)?
[07:09] <jammcq> does a very nice 1920x1200 resolution, but in Breezy/ltsp it came up as 1280x1024
[07:09] <daniels> jammcq: 'wasn't very pretty'?
[07:09] <daniels> oh, right
[07:09] <mdz> daniels: shouldn't that work?
[07:09] <daniels> this is probably that hillarious thing where ddcprobe thinks it's an analogue monitor, so refuses to use the top res
[07:09] <jammcq> in my LTSP, I have a custom modeline I use for it
[07:09] <jammcq> I copied those entries over to breezy, but it didn't pick it up
[07:09] <daniels> mdz: in theory, yes.  in practice, I need to rewrite yet more chunks of ddcprobe.
[07:10] <mdz> jammcq: we don't have a mechanism for custom modelines yet
[07:10] <jammcq> mdz: ah, ok
[07:10] <daniels> jammcq: did it write out HorizSync and VertRefresh entries?  if so, nuke them (this is the expected -- shitty, but expected -- behaviour on amd64)
[07:10] <mdz> jammcq: I sent you a mail a while back with a list of which lts.conf parameters we'd implemented and asked which ones were most important...;-)
[07:10] <jammcq> daniels: umm, dunno.  I've since rebooted the client from my old ltsp server
[07:10] <jammcq> mdz: umm, yeah, I prolly have that email still :)
[07:11] <da_bon_bon> mdz: on i810 ?? what should i pass ? vga= ? in 791 it gives undefined mode number.
[07:12] <fabbione> re
[07:12] <jammcq> the boot time of the clients is still a bit strange.  my 1ghz Via booted in about 1 minutes. which isn't too bad.  My 733mhz transmeta took about 5 minutes to boot
[07:12] <da_bon_bon> daniels: it is not useless for all i810 users .. but as ubuntu must cater to laptop community, i am not arguing :)
[07:12] <jammcq> both of those workstations take about 30 seconds on LTSP-4.1
[07:13] <jammcq> it spent about 90 seconds in the 'Starting Hotplug'
[07:14] <mdz> jammcq: it loads all drivers which are available for the hardware, even if we don't actually have a chance of using it yet (e.g., USB, audio, etc.)
[07:14] <mdz> some of them take a few seconds to load
[07:14] <mdz> 90 seconds for hotplug is excessive, though
[07:14] <jammcq> but the 1ghz box is like 5 times faster.  seemed odd
[07:14] <mdz> there's a flag in /etc/default/hotplug or such that you can set to make it more verbose
[07:15] <jammcq> ah, that would be good, so we can track what it is doing
[07:15] <jammcq> i'll try that tomorrow
[07:15] <mdz> on an installed system, you can boot in recovery mode and it should be verbose; no convenient way to do that on a thin client though
[07:15] <jammcq> what determines 'recovery mode' ?
[07:15] <jammcq> a kernel cmdline paramter?
[07:16] <mdz> recovery mode = single-user mode
[07:16] <mdz> that's what the default grub menu calls it
[07:17] <jammcq> ah, 'single' on the kernel cmdline
[07:17] <jammcq> that's easy to add to the pxelinux.cfg/default file
[07:21] <mdz> jammcq: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14979
[07:21] <mdz> jammcq: my definition of 'convenient' is more like something I could easily explain over the phone to someone who didn't already know where to go ;-)
[07:22] <jammcq> heh
[07:22] <mdz> daniels: dude, you have people complaining both about refresh rates being too high AND too low
[07:22] <daniels> mdz: tell me about it
[07:22] <daniels> mdz: THIS REFRESH IS JUST RIGHT!! WTF I DEMAND A REFUND
[07:23] <daniels> mdz: that's what I'm waiting for
[07:23] <daniels> mdz: though I'm cheerfully ignoring the '85Hz at a minimum but always 100Hz if possible' insanity
[07:23] <desrt> people complain about refresh rates too high?
[07:23] <HrdwrBoB> how could you POSSIBLY have a refresh rate too high
[07:24] <desrt> (other than, the obvious problem that your monitor doesn't dig)
[07:24] <daniels> because it's not the highest possible resolution omg
[07:24] <desrt> ah
[07:24] <HrdwrBoB> unless your monitor is a hojillion years old and squeals like a stuck pig if it's higher, in which cash you deserve it to explode
[07:24] <desrt> crts are best run at one or two steps down from max
[07:24] <desrt> lcd should very obviously be at absolute max
[07:24] <mdz> daniels: for breezy+1, what would it take to push this all out to the desktop and just let the user pick what they want?
[07:24] <HrdwrBoB> oh, I'd rather have 1280x1024 at 60hz interlaced than 1024x768@85hz
[07:24] <mdz> that little xrandr thing in gnome is a good start on it
[07:25] <desrt> mdz; ya... that's always a thought
[07:25] <daniels> mdz: they can do it today if they want
[07:25] <desrt> give them whatever the hell you feel like and if they don't like it they have a nice friendly app to do it themselves
[07:25] <daniels> mdz: doing this *properly* with multiple monitors (which I'm currently blueskying about in #freedesktop with a couple of others) is much, much harder
[07:26] <mdz> daniels: they can do it only at the session level, and they can't really change the refresh rate
[07:26] <daniels> mdz: in general, I was extremely skeptical of the ability of the current configuration infrastructure to hold together to hoary
[07:26] <daniels> mdz: xorgautoconfiguration would be an *excellent* start
[07:26] <mdz> forgetting about multiple monitors for now, it would be nice if we could just configure the X server to allow all available modes and let the user pick
[07:26] <daniels> for the general case, we do that
[07:26] <daniels> the only freak cases are shitty laptop chipsets and amd64 desktops
[07:27] <daniels> although, to be fair, there is one case we don't handle
[07:27] <daniels> which is the highest resolution when we've determined n-1 would be best
[07:27] <daniels> right now X's metric for resolutions is highest -> best
[07:27] <fabbione> daniels: libfontcache is miscompiled :) it's missing the -DFONTCACHE.. exactly like xfs was
[07:27] <daniels> so if we put them all in, you'd always get the absolute highest thingo
[07:27] <daniels> resolution
[07:27] <daniels> fabbione: okay
[07:28] <fabbione> daniels: so the missing -DFONTCACHE in xfs seems to me like a consequence to libfontcache being miscompiled
[07:28] <fabbione> daniels: anyway.. looking more deep into it
[07:28] <mdz> hmm, I guess my refresh rate widget is not so useful because I lack DDC
[07:29] <mdz> daniels: we don't have a way to set the default for the server, only for a particular user's session
[07:29] <mdz> so e.g. the login screen still always gets the default mode, no?
[07:29] <infinity> Yeah, I whined abou tthis to daniels earlier.
[07:29] <daniels> fabbione: new package on the way
[07:29] <daniels> mdz: right
[07:29] <mdz> infinity: that's a GNOME issue
[07:29] <fabbione> daniels: wait.. let me finish to check please
[07:29] <daniels> mdz: xorg configuration is currently hillarious
[07:29] <infinity> mdz : Oh, I know, it wasn't "in his capacity as X guy", just whining in general. :)
[07:30] <mdz> daniels: it would be fly if we could add colour depth to that dialog
[07:30] <daniels> we don't have any runtime configuration infrastructure at all (xrandr is ... it's a start, but not a patch on what we need)
[07:30] <daniels> mdz: HA HA HA HA
[07:30] <daniels> mdz: yeah
[07:30] <daniels> mdz: run-time depth switching doesn't happen
[07:30] <mdz> obviously we can't switch depth o the fly
[07:31] <daniels> okay
[07:31] <mdz> X being the lovable old curmudgeon that it is
[07:31] <mdz> but to let the user change it would be huge
[07:31] <daniels> mmm
[07:31] <mdz> even if they have to reboot
[07:32] <mdz> ideally we'd like to decouple the "these are the capabilities of your hardware etc." stuff (xorg.conf) from the "my display preferences" stuff
[07:32] <fabbione> daniels: ok.. i can cofirm that adding -DFONTCACHE to CFLAGS option to libxfont fixes the problem.
[07:32] <daniels> right
[07:32] <daniels> that would indeed kick arse
[07:32] <mdz> and set the latter somewhere other than a crazy config file
[07:32] <fabbione> daniels: it would be still good to get the fixes in the right order.. like libxfont to set that properly
[07:32] <fabbione> daniels: xfs doesn't need to be rebuilded
[07:32] <mdz> if the tool were extended to have some way to set up a default config for gdm...
[07:33] <mdz> then it wouldn't be too crazy to expect it to be able to pass -depth or whatever too
[07:33] <daniels> i think we'd perpetually be maintaining that as our hack on top of the gnome applet
[07:33] <daniels> because then you're tying your gnome session to gdm
[07:33] <daniels> fabbione: i've already committed the fix to cvs :P
[07:33] <fabbione> daniels: ok...
[07:34] <mdz> I don't see why it couldn't go upstream
[07:34] <mdz> the 
[07:34] <fabbione> daniels: please take to check if xfs still requires -DFONTCACHE
[07:34] <fabbione> daniels: and so on...
[07:34] <daniels> mdz: because it's suddenly wildly incorrect if you don't use gdm
[07:34] <daniels> fabbione: xfs still requires -DFONTCACHE
[07:34] <mdz> it could have two tabs, for setting your user settings and the system-wide settings
[07:34] <mdz> daniels: people who install non-default X display managers can cope
[07:35] <daniels> mdz: this is not a problem for ubuntu
[07:35] <daniels> mdz: it's more of a problem for gnome
[07:35] <fabbione> daniels: ok.. than just upload libxfont with -DFONTCACHE (recheck the B-D because i didn't)
[07:35] <mdz> there are already other bits of gnome config which assume you're using gdm
[07:35] <daniels> i've committed the right fix upstream (the AC_DEFINE was wrong), so I'll just push that up
[07:36] <daniels> mdz: which bits?
[07:39] <daniels> fabbione: um, I checked the Build-Deps when I uploaded it
[07:40] <mdz> daniels: administration->login screen setup, e.g.
[07:40] <daniels> mdz: right, but that's explicitly gdm setup
[07:40] <daniels> mdz: it's not X setup in general
[07:40] <mdz> I don't think it's a biggie
[07:40] <daniels> mdz: i don't think it's not useful -- not in the least -- but I'm not sure it'll work as is
[07:40] <mdz> if they care, they can hide the widgets if not running under gdm
[07:41] <daniels> how do we detect that we're managed, aside from RUNNING_UNDER_GDM=True in /etc/environment? :P
[07:42] <mdz> something like that
[07:42] <daniels> ow, my head
[07:42] <mdz> gnome stuff knows that it's runniing under gdm already
[07:42] <mdz> e.g. the new login, reboot/shutdown, etc.
[07:43] <mdz> and if they're not, they hide
[07:43] <mdz> under gdm, logout gives you options; under ltsp, it just logs you out
[07:47] <fabbione> lamont-away: ping?
[07:48] <daniels> mdz: hm, okay
[07:49] <Mithrandir> Riddell: what do you need help for wrt kubuntu/amd64?
[07:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: he needed help testing the ISOs which have since been released
[07:51] <Mithrandir> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20050908.2/ ?
[07:52] <fabbione> infinity: i am on #14844 if you are busy...
[07:56] <doko> are there reasons (besides UVF), that we do not upgrade valgrind to 3.0? in that case I would like to package valgrind3 with a different source package name to have a version for amd64
[07:57] <Mithrandir> doko: it has been discussed to just sync it, iirc
[07:57] <Mithrandir> doko: did you see my question about http://err.no/patches/bcel_5.1-4ubuntu2_5.1-4ubuntu3_ftbfs_ant_compiler.diff yesterday?
[07:58] <doko> Mithrandir: sorry, no, I didn't (had two nicks in use yesterday). will look at it today
[07:58] <fabbione> mdz: permission to upload iproute (#14844) the patch makes sense and it's trivial to understand
[07:58] <fabbione> (2 oneliners in 2 files)
[07:58] <doko> Mithrandir: what was the outcome of the discussion?
[07:58] <Mithrandir> doko: thanks.
[07:59] <Mithrandir> doko: I can't remember.
[07:59] <Mithrandir> doko: iirc, either mdz or Kamion was involved in the discussion.
[08:01] <mdz> fabbione: yep
[08:01] <mdz> Mithrandir: that url is not familiar
[08:01] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[08:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: what's the right one, then?
[08:05] <doko> Mithrandir: the bcel fix looks fine
[08:06] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'm saying that I don't think I was involved in a discussion about that patch
[08:07] <doko> mdz: no, the valgrind thing
[08:07] <Mithrandir> mdz: I didn't imply you were; that was about valgrind.
[08:07] <Mithrandir> mdz: sorry for the confusion
[08:07] <Mithrandir> doko: I've also looked a bit at the ecj-bootstrap FTBFS and it seems like gcj has problems with too many input files or something like that?
[08:07] <mdz> I don't recall a conversation about a new valgrind source either
[08:08] <Mithrandir> sorry, it was jdub
[08:09] <Mithrandir> mdz: as well as 18:20 < jdub> mdz: ross burton has asked for a sync of valgrind to more sanely d
[08:09] <Mithrandir> ebug gnome things that are affecting us, Riddell is checking if the reverse-depe
[08:09] <Mithrandir> nds works with it, and Mithrandir suggests the amd64 camp will have a debugging
[08:09] <Mithrandir> orgy if it goes in - your thoughts?
[08:09] <Mithrandir> thursday a week ago.; TZ is CEST
[08:12] <mdz> what are the reverse deps?
[08:12] <Mithrandir> kcachegrind or something like that, iirc
[08:14] <mdz> new valgrind is ok with me if it doesn't break any packages which depend on it
[08:14] <Mithrandir> ok, I'll test that, then
[08:31] <pitti> Good morning
[08:31] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[08:31] <fabbione> hi pitti
[08:31] <Burgundavia> pitti, is moz going to support the 1.0.x branch of FF or are you going to have put 1.5 in breezy/hoary/warty?
[08:32] <pitti> Burgundavia: I really hope they support 1.0.x further 
[08:32] <Burgundavia> pitti, ouch, I don't envy your job
[08:33] <pitti> I hope that enough vendors have that problem so that moz upstream will see the necessity
[08:40] <pitti> Hi Kamion 
[08:42] <doko> Mithrandir: the ecj-bootstrap thing is a regression, I don't know, when it did stop working, I couldn't find anything yet yesterday looking at it.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> doko: I don't know the gcj source, but all the smoking guns point in that direction.  It should be possible to add a workaround to ecj-bootstrap, but that's really the wrong place to fix it.
[08:44] <pitti> new hal coming - daniels, infinity, jdub something new for you to play with :-)
[08:44] <Burgundavia> pitti, 0.5.4?
[08:44] <pitti> Burgundavia: no, new patches to 0.5.3
[08:44] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:44] <pitti> Burgundavia: upstream version freeze :-/
[08:46] <doko> Mithrandir: yes, and it builds ok on amd64 ...
[08:46] <doko> ohh, wait that was too quick :-/
[08:47] <infinity> pitti " Fun.
[08:47] <infinity> s/"/:/
[08:47] <Mithrandir> doko: uhm, no?  It fails in the first round of compiles, but gcj doesn't return non-zero when a file fails to compile, so make just continues.
[08:49] <doko> mdz: is the preview freeze for the pending uploads over?
[08:50] <infinity> doko : Preview is released, so you do the math. :)
[08:51] <ondrej> mornin', just quick question.  Is "breezy" in Breezy Badger meant as "windy" or as "jolly"...
[08:51] <ondrej> ?
[08:51] <ondrej> or "jovial"?
[08:52] <infinity> mdz : Can I get a UVF exception for PHP 5.0.5 (bugfix-only release, I can let it cook in sid for a week first, if you prefer)
[08:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: "bugfix-only" means they've only removed three features, changed behaviour of half a dozen and added a few new libraries to the testsuite?
[08:53] <infinity> Mithrandir : No, it actually seems to be bugfix-only, this time.
[08:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: amazing.  Have they taken a rock to the head or something?
[08:53] <infinity> Mithrandir : I think they're busy doing the real breakage on the PHP 5.1 branch (which is in beta right now), so they're distracted from messing up 5.0.x
[08:54] <Mithrandir> ah, makes sense
[09:04] <wickedpuppy> hi guys does anyone knows how is /lib/modules/<kernel> is generated ? by what program ?
[09:08] <infinity> wickedpuppy : With the exception of the "volatile" modules (which are linked by lrm-manager on boot), everything else is built as part of the stock kernel builds.
[09:08] <wickedpuppy> but what if the kernel is downloaded and built with genkernel ?? then genkernel builds those modules as well ?
[09:09] <infinity> If you configure it to build modules, yes.
[09:09] <infinity> wickedpuppy : These questoins would probably be better in #ubuntu
[09:10] <wickedpuppy> ah i know ... but i thought you guys are doing dev
[09:11] <wickedpuppy> thanks
[09:11] <wickedpuppy> :P
[09:12] <robitaille> what's the ETA for the official announcement of the next release name?  I just noticed that someone started using it in the bugzilla :)
[09:18] <pitti> daniels: seeing the new xorg release, may I bitch you about adding the CAN numbers again?
[09:23] <infinity> s/weened/weekend/
[09:27] <dholbach> good morning
[09:28] <pitti> Hi dholbach, hi seb128  - good morning to the Gnominators
[09:28] <pitti> Hey enrico 
[09:29] <dholbach> merci beaucoup pitti - how is it going?
[09:30] <pitti> fine, got a good night's sleep, as opposed to the previous night
[09:39] <enrico> hi pitti!
[09:40] <fabbione> bella enrico
[09:53] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[09:57] <mdke> who has a preview install?
[09:57] <mdke> can they please see if ubuntu-docs is installed?
[09:59] <robitaille> mdke,  it seems to be available, but it didn't install by default on my laptop
[09:59] <mdke> hmm
[10:00] <HrdwrBoB> I do, but I upgraded
[10:01] <infinity> fabbione : pong.
[10:03] <fabbione> infinity: mind if i look around some of the FTBFS bugs?
[10:03] <fabbione> most of them are assigned to you
[10:03] <infinity> fabbione : The more, the merrier.
[10:03] <fabbione> infinity: hehe ok
[10:03] <infinity> fabbione : I know, Mithrandir's already got free reign on them.
[10:04] <fabbione> infinity: ok i will coordinate with him
[10:04] <infinity> fabbione : You may want to co-ordinate with him to make sure you don't duplicate effort, but I'm officially weekending right now, so you won't step on my toes.
[10:04] <fabbione> infinity: have fun and enjoy
[10:04] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i am looking at 13684
[10:05] <Kamion> mdke: ubuntu-docs isn't in any seed
[10:05] <Mithrandir> fabbione: have fun
[10:05] <mdke> Kamion, do you know the reason?
[10:05] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ehehe it looks pretty simple problem.. freetds is buggy :)
[10:06] <Kamion> mdke: no
[10:06] <mdke> ok
[10:06] <mdke> Kamion, can someone fix it?
[10:07] <Kamion> oh, we used to have ubuntu-quickguide in desktop, and then that got renamed
[10:07] <Kamion> or removed or superseded or whatever
[10:08] <Kamion> mdke: fixed
[10:08] <mdke> awesome thanks
[10:09] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it's not a simple problem.  It's an API change.
[10:10] <carlos> seb128, it's a pity I cannot complain about firefox to you... now that the panel does not crash....
[10:10] <seb128> :)
[10:10] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes i know.. i was just kidding because the freetds maintainer is vorlon :)
[10:10] <lifeless> moin
[10:10] <mvo> carlos: for ff just complain to dholbach :p
[10:11] <dholbach> mvo: wait until i see you next
[10:11] <carlos> mvo, I know, but that's not so fun ;-)
[10:11] <dholbach> thank you carlos
[10:11] <seb128> carlos: come on, dholbach is a fun guy too
[10:11] <carlos> seb128, I didn't say that he's not fun :-)
[10:11] <seb128> and he's really looking forward debugging ff
[10:12] <dholbach> seb128: you're playing with the fire
[10:12] <carlos> seb128, but I don't want to scare him so early
[10:12] <pitti> dholbach: beware, mvo has a club^Whockey bat :-)
[10:12] <mvo> dholbach: the the fire-fox ;)
[10:13] <mvo> pitti: and experience in melee fighthing^W^Wplaying
[10:14] <dholbach> just to be 100% sure - main is open again, right?
[10:14] <pitti> dholbach: yeah, upload new craaaack
[10:15] <dholbach> ROCK
[10:15] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i think the easiest solution for breezy is to drop the freetds support...
[10:16] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the API change is immense
[10:18] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yeah, that's a viable course, I think
[10:18] <mvo> ping ogra 
[10:20] <infinity> Mithrandir, fabbione : Wait, leave the freetds-related bug to me.  I co-maintain freetds, I should be able to have a look at it.
[10:22] <WaterSevenUb> Hey guys. "Hibernate the computer" and "Suspend to the computer" are not translatable in gnome-session. 05_translations.diff however contains patches for some languages. Can someone help me out implementing the patch for my language? The patch is very easy but I have some doubts.
[10:22] <Mithrandir> infinity: it's the libgda2 bug.
[10:22] <infinity> Mithrandir : Yeah, I see that.
[10:22] <fabbione> infinity: ok.. it's a bit API change in freetds.. freetds is ok.. libgda2 freetds plugin needs almost a full rewrite
[10:23] <fabbione> infinity: and you are supposed to be weekending by now
[10:23] <infinity> fabbione : It's probably not as bad as it looks at first glance.  I'll poke at it, and if I give up, I can dro ptds support (but I'd prefer not to)
[10:23] <fabbione> ok
[10:23] <infinity> Yes, I'm weekending.  Watch me weekend.  Woo, woo.
[10:23] <fabbione> fabbione@cerberus:/usr/src$ rm libgda2* freetds* -rf
[10:23] <fabbione> fabbione@cerberus:/usr/src$ 
[10:23] <fabbione> problem solved
[10:24] <infinity> :)
[10:24] <mvo> seb128: do you have a idea about #14998? it looks like the gtk icon-theme changed bug, but I wonder how it can happen during the upgrade
[10:24] <WaterSevenUb> pitti,mvo,seb128?:) 
[10:24] <pitti> yes?
[10:26] <seb128> ?
[10:26] <seb128> use rosetta
[10:27] <seb128> mvo: why should it no happen during the update? it's trigerred by the icon changes, so by the packages upgrade
[10:28] <mvo> seb128: I was under the impression it was a new bug in gtk2.7, no?
[10:29] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, the strings I mentioned are not in the PO file so they can't be translated through rosetta. Under debian/patches in 05_translations.diff however some guys solved the problem, when building, their .PO files include these strings. I want to do the same.
[10:29] <seb128> mvo: not sure
[10:29] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: how so? they should be listed by the pot file, lemme have a look on it
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: that leaves the problem ... how to fix the crash?
[10:30] <seb128> mvo: you can't ... does it happen a lot?
[10:31] <mvo> seb128: it seems to be happening on each hoary->breezy upgrade with synaptic *cough*
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: if the issue if hoary's gtk beeing bugged that would require patching it and doing an hoary-update upload
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: arg
[10:31] <mvo> seb128: yeah. pretty anoying :(
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: why didn't we get any bug about that before?
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: I have no idea, but doko and silbs reported the crash and I can reproduce it here too
[10:33] <seb128> mvo: the fix is probably quite small; maybe you can look if it applys on 2.6.n from hoary
[10:34] <infinity> Even if it does apply, good luck getting all hoary users to update with hoary-updates before they upgrade to breezy. :/
[10:35] <mvo> infinity: oh yes :/
[10:36] <sivang> moring all
[10:36] <sivang> cd testing still ongoing?
[10:36] <infinity> So, for "nontechnical desktop users", we can force "upgrade this package first, before you even attempt any other system upgrades"
[10:37] <pitti> sivang: preview is released
[10:37] <hunger> infinity: Yes! There is no problem that can't be solved by adding another layer of abstraction:-)
[10:37] <Kamion> all problems can be solved by adding an additional level of abstraction
[10:37] <Kamion> snap
[10:37] <infinity> (Somewhat akin to Windows Update updating itself before doing anything else)
[10:37] <sivang> pitti: ah cool, so we can go on with the remaining uploads from before preview freeze ?
[10:38] <Kamion> sivang: yes, we're back to feature freeze status
[10:38] <Kamion> sivang: although uploads are still being held for approval for the moment, just in order to give people a chance to have a stable preview archive for a bit
[10:39] <Kamion> boring == good
[10:39] <Kamion> (spot the release manager mentality)
[10:39] <infinity> Kamion : yeah, it's not an idea I feel very good about, but it sure beats telling users they're on their own with broken dist-upgrades, cause they didn't read the release notes first, etc.
[10:39] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, be right back.
[10:40] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, I agree with you
[10:40] <infinity> If we can figure out a way to enforce "release-note-isms" (ie: upgrade this first, do that dance, then do a dist-upgrade), that would rock.
[10:41] <Kamion> ogra: speaking of freezes, am I to put Edubuntu CDs on releases.ubuntu.com before we unfreeze?
[10:41] <seb128> carlos: rosetta only has hoary .pot files?
[10:41] <sivang> Kamion: Where do we hold our release notes? I think we oughta mention that LVM issue that I experienced last night, I'd hate to see unsuspecting desktop users bump into this..:)
[10:41] <fabbione> wow.. down to 252 Maj bugs from 270 of 4 hours ago
[10:41] <fabbione> not too bad
[10:41] <fabbione> sivang: what LVM problem did you see?
[10:42] <fabbione> sivang: did you open a bug for it?
[10:42] <infinity> fabbione : No fair, you're cherry-picking all the INVALID imported bugs, aren't you? :)
[10:42] <fabbione> infinity: i didn't say why the count is going down..
[10:42] <Kamion> sivang: don't know, doc team should be taking care of that
[10:42] <sivang> fabbione: not yet, I will go open a bug about it now, unless you want to hear me first and tell me probably that this is not a bug :)
[10:42] <fabbione> i just said it is going down
[10:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 2419 seems to be fixed?
[10:42] <sivang> Kamion: k
[10:42] <mvo> infinity: I guess we would need some dist-upgrade hints file. but there are more practial problems. e.g. for this gtk+ bug it would require to first upgdate libgtk, then restart synaptic/pm-of-choice so that it actually uses the new libgtk and then continue. certainly doable but...
[10:42] <fabbione> infinity: neither i did say that i did it or who has to be credited ;)
[10:43] <carlos> seb128, no, it also has breezy
[10:43] <carlos> seb128, why?
[10:43] <seb128> carlos: I don't find them
[10:43] <fabbione> sivang: well open the bug.. and i will look at it
[10:43] <carlos> seb128, ?
[10:43] <sivang> fabbione: ok, guess better that way then on IRC.
[10:43] <seb128> carlos: https://launchpad.net/products/gnome-session has only hoary on the left pane
[10:43] <seb128> "Template "gnome-session-2.0" in Ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog package "gnome-session""
[10:44] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/products/gnome-session/+translations
[10:44] <seb128> "Template "gnome-session-2.0" in Ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog package "gnome-session""
[10:44] <seb128> 
[10:44] <seb128> carlos: where are they hidden? :)
[10:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: good point, thanks, closed
[10:44] <carlos> seb128, we promote Hoary vs. breezy
[10:45] <carlos> seb128, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gnome-session/+pots/gnome-session-2.0
[10:45] <carlos> seb128, the main problem is that we don't have yet the publishing information inside launchpad
[10:45] <fabbione> infinity: but if you prefer i can leave you all these little boring bugs.. :P
[10:45] <carlos> seb128, the usual path is look for a package at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources
[10:45] <seb128> carlos: where does I find gnome-session-2.0 2.12.0 pot file?
[10:46] <carlos> seb128, anyway, you also have https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+translations
[10:46] <infinity> mvo : Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was referring to.  So we'd update only gtk/synaptic (and deps), then respawn synaptic.  Or something equally hideous.
[10:46] <carlos> seb128, upstream one? we don't have it on Rosetta
[10:46] <infinity> mvo : Not doable now anyway, as the code would never get into hoary, and we woudn't have time to do it for breezy either, but maybe someone could think of some clever hint hooks for breezy+1
[10:46] <seb128> carlos: no, 5.10 ones
[10:47] <carlos> seb128, breezy
[10:47] <carlos> seb128, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gnome-session/+pots/gnome-session-2.0/+export
[10:47] <infinity> fabbione : Heh.  I don't care who does the cherry-picking.  Triaging needs to be done, regardless.  Go nuts. :)
[10:47] <carlos> seb128, select the potemplate
[10:47] <mvo> infinity: yes, hints would be really good. another ubz topic
[10:48] <carlos> and you will get it by email
[10:48] <dholbach> does a CC on bugzilla need to have a bugzilla account?
[10:48] <seb128> carlos: k, that's a pain to find
[10:48] <fabbione> infinity: so stop complaining on what i am cherry picking :P
[10:48] <carlos> seb128, ?
[10:48] <carlos> seb128, it's a normal 'download' action
[10:48] <carlos> seb128, anyway, why do you want the .pot file?
[10:48] <seb128> carlos: https://launchpad.net/products/gnome-session should have both distro on the left pane
[10:48] <carlos> seb128, usually you get your language's .po file...
[10:48] <seb128> carlos: I don't care of the pot
[10:48] <carlos> seb128, dude, same issue raised by jordi yesterday. Ask sabdfl about that...
 seb128, the strings I mentioned are not in the PO file so they can't be translated through rosetta. Under debian/patches in 05_translations.diff however some guys solved the problem, when building, their .PO files include these strings. I want to do the same.
[10:49] <seb128> carlos: that's the issue
[10:49] <carlos> seb128, that's something you need to talk with Martin then
[10:49] <seb128> carlos: and I want to check if current po files have the Hibernate string by example
[10:49] <carlos> seb128, hte .pot file should be updated every time a build is raised
[10:49] <seb128> carlos: yeah, that's why I search the pot
[10:50] <seb128> to know if it's correct or not
[10:50] <carlos> seb128, if rosetta is missing strings means that the .pot is not being regenerated
[10:50] <seb128> I'm not blaming rosetta, I'm searching for the pot to know it it's correct or not :)
[10:50] <seb128> graa
[10:50] <seb128> you can't search for a string from the UI?
[10:52] <carlos> not yet
[10:52] <carlos> seb128, we have a spec for that but it's not implemented
[10:52] <seb128> k
[10:52] <seb128> and there is no "next" on the bottom of the page
[10:53] <seb128> man, I'm going to fill some bugs :)
[10:53] <mvo> silbs: could you please do a "reload" in synaptic and tell me if the "couldn't stat waring" goes away then?
[10:53] <carlos> seb128, the 'next' thing is a lost subject, we talked about that already and decided to leave it as it's atm.
[10:54] <seb128> carlos: that sucks :(
[10:54] <seb128> I translate, go to the bottom
[10:54] <seb128> then I need to go up again just to go to the next page
[10:54] <carlos> seb128, people loses translations if they click over it instead of the submit button and the submit button does the same if you don't add translations so...
[10:54] <carlos> seb128, dude, if you translate.... you need to click over the button....
[10:54] <carlos> or you lose your translations
[10:55] <seb128> I don't translate
[10:55] <carlos> seb128 I translate, go to the bottom
[10:55] <carlos> seb128 then I need to go up again just to go to the next page
[10:55] <carlos> seb128, you do
[10:55] <carlos> :-)
[10:55] <seb128> I'm looking on all the pages to find Hibernate because there is no search
[10:55] <jordi> hear, hear :)
[10:55] <seb128> graa, and it's damn slow to go to the next page
[10:55] <carlos> seb128, the submit button should work for you, without changes, the button does the same
[10:56] <seb128> that's not obvious
[10:56] <jsgotangco> carlos, jordi hi, we're about to test our pot file for the documents we made do we give them to you or upload them to rosetta?
[10:56] <seb128> and since I don't want to change anything
[10:56] <seb128> I don't submit anything
[10:56] <seb128> k, I found the string
[10:56] <jordi> jsgotangco: add them to wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaImportQueue
[10:56] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: rosetta has the strings
[10:57] <mdke> jsgotangco, it's under control
[10:57] <carlos> seb128, we choose the less data lose solution... anyway, complain with a bug report, the button label should be changed if it's not good enough
[10:57] <mvo> seb128: I looked at the gtk+ 2.6 source and I'm pretty sure that's the bug
[10:57] <mdke> jsgotangco, i spoke to jordi yesterday to arrange it
[10:57] <seb128> mvo: k
[10:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: mind if I fix the missing dependency bug in pygtk?
[10:57] <seb128> carlos: k
[10:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13992
[10:57] <carlos> seb128, also, you need to navigate that way because the lack of the search form
[10:58] <carlos> seb128, when we add it you will not do that so often
[10:58] <jsgotangco> ok
[10:58] <seb128> Mithrandir: not at all
[10:58] <seb128> carlos: right
[10:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: great, uploaded. :-P
[10:58] <seb128> carlos: other point, is there a way to change the "10 strings by page"?
[10:59] <seb128> Mithrandir: thanks
[10:59] <carlos> seb128, yes, but not from the web UI
[10:59] <carlos> seb128, it's an 'advanced' feature
[10:59] <jdub> yay, i had my first gam_server cpu/memory blowout!
[11:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: have you seen the window change applet become massively unhappy and eating all the cpu it can find (on only one core, but still)
[11:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: nop
[11:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's very reproducible here, but I wondered if it was known before I start spending time tracking it down.
[11:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, I'll see if I can get you a useful backtrace, then
[11:01] <seb128> no it's not
[11:01] <seb128> but because it's because of your wm :)
[11:02] <Kamion> yay, lots more shiny mirrors picking up the preview
[11:02] <Kamion> although mostly European for the moment; the Australian, African, and Canadian mirrors are part-way through
[11:03] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync sgml2x
[11:03] <Kamion> JaneW: 09:41 < Kamion> ogra: speaking of freezes, am I to put Edubuntu CDs on releases.ubuntu.com before we unfreeze?
[11:03] <pitti> Kamion: hm, are uploads still hand-approved? it almost seems to
[11:03] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[11:04] <mdke> silbs, thanks for your documentation bugs
[11:04] <Kamion> won't stay that way, it's just to get a bit of stability around the preview
[11:04] <pitti> ah, because of edubuntu, I see
[11:04] <Kamion> pitti: not really
[11:04] <Kamion> well, I suppose we might want to do an emergency rebuild of Edubuntu, but I'm going to hurt people if that's the case
[11:04] <ogra> Kamion, we are allowed to finish first
[11:04] <Kamion> ogra: as in the ltsp-client-builder stuff?
[11:05] <Kamion> or just what you had yesterday?
[11:05] <ogra> Kamion, jup and and edubuntu-artwork :)
[11:05] <Kamion> ogra: did mdz say the archive was staying frozen until you were done, then?
[11:05] <pitti> darn, I was already uploading happily - sorry
[11:06] <pitti> Hi mdz
[11:06] <Kamion> pitti: it's all held in a queue, don't worry
[11:06] <Kamion> morning/evening mdz
[11:06] <mvo> pitti: no problem, it's won't processed
[11:06] <pitti> Kamion: I know, but it will make things complicated if we need to fix something already uploaded for Edubuntu
[11:06] <Kamion> yes
[11:08] <mvo> is there any reason for us to keep the old readahead around and not make readahead-list the new (and only) readahead package?
[11:09] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, You are right, sorry. When I do apt-get source gnome-session why the .PO files don't trace Rosetta?
[11:10] <Mithrandir> sound-juicer segfaults
[11:11] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: "trace"?
[11:12] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: rosetta import the .po files from the packages and we are going to make language-packs from rosetta
[11:12] <seb128> but that doesn't work yet
[11:12] <seb128> carlos: when will rosetta gives language-packs?
[11:12] <Mithrandir> why is gdb such a POS when it comes to debugging threads?
[11:13] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, equal..... I am confused by the fact that the original english strings are not the same in the source and in rosetta.
[11:13] <carlos> seb128, I'm doing final changes to be able to create them
[11:13] <carlos> seb128, on Monday I think kiko will give to martin a new language pack from Rosetta to test it
[11:15] <carlos> pitti, btw, should we talk today, I ping you yesterday but seems like you were a bit busy
[11:15] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: original == upstream? The ubuntu patches have some new strings
[11:15] <JaneW> Kamion: hi
[11:17] <JaneW> Kamion: I need ogra to decide that but edubuntu is conspicuous in it's absence from the preview announcments...
[11:19] <ogra> mvo, pong
[11:20] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, k, I appreciate your help.
[11:20] <Kamion> ogra: I've updated debian-cd to fix Edubuntu bootloader configuration on powerpc; your next CD build will have that
[11:20] <WaterSevenUb> seb128, thx.
[11:20] <ogra> Kamion, WOW...
[11:20] <seb128> np
[11:20] <ogra> Kamion, else we would have dropped ppc...
[11:20] <Kamion> JaneW: I've cleared it up with ogra, thanks
[11:21] <Kamion> ogra: can't have that ;)
[11:21] <ogra> i thought so, thanks a lot :)
[11:21] <JaneW> Kamion: many thanks :)
[11:21] <Kamion> pitti: I can always (I think) reject something if absolutely necessary
[11:23] <Kamion> ogra: do you need ltsp 0.54?
[11:23] <Kamion> (see breezy-changes, it's in the queue)
[11:23] <ogra> Kamion, yup
[11:23] <ogra> it has the necessary changes
[11:23] <Kamion> mdz: your changelog entry does not tally with the actual diff
[11:24] <Kamion> mdz: "Restart nfs-kernel-server and dhcp3-server on installation" vs. restarting nfs-kernel-server on removal
[11:24] <ogra> Kamion, thats my patch
[11:24] <Kamion> well, I'll approve it and you lot can see whether it works
[11:24] <Kamion> ogra: why does the changelog disagree with the change?
[11:24] <ogra> Kamion, it restarts nfs on both and dhcp on install
[11:24] <sivang> seb128: did you finish with gimp ? can we upload my last bit of lpi (gnome-applets) ?
[11:24] <Kamion> ogra: that's not what the diff says
[11:25] <ogra> hmm
[11:25] <Kamion> +           invoke-rc.d nfs-kernel-server reload
[11:25] <Kamion> that's all the diff adds
[11:25] <Kamion> (on postrm remove)
[11:25] <seb128> sivang: no and no
[11:25] <ogra> Kamion, there must be a change in postinst too (the more important one...)
[11:25] <Kamion> I've approved 0.54, you can check for yourself in fifteen minutes when it hits the archive
[11:26] <ogra> Kamion, any idea why edubuntu-meta's update script still tells me edubuntu-artwork is unavailable ? 
[11:27] <Kamion> because you didn't wait as long as I told you to wait
[11:27] <Kamion> 10:11 <Kamion> update -meta again the next time the archive updates (about 30 minutes)
[11:27] <Kamion> it is now 10:27
[11:27] <ogra> oops, ok
[11:27] <ogra> i need a coffee to wake up i think
[11:27] <Kamion> cron.daily happens at :03 and :33, takes some minutes
[11:28] <Kamion> we can run it manually in emergencies but I prefer not to :)
[11:40] <sivang> fabbione: check bug #15017
[11:40] <Mithrandir> hmm
[11:40] <Mithrandir> if you set your clock 30 minutes back, the download stats in firefox stops working
[11:41] <fabbione> Kamion: permission to upload gail to fix 14598. missing one B-D. no other changes
[11:41] <Kamion> fabbione: seems unlikely Edubuntu will want to upload that, so sure
[11:42] <HiddenWolf> who owns dh@mailempfang.de ?
[11:42] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: dholbach
[11:42] <jsgotangco> that's dholbach 
[11:42] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[11:42] <HiddenWolf> dholbach, if you upload something that fixes a bug, close it. ;)
[11:42] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, thanks
[11:43] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: what are you referring to?
[11:43] <HiddenWolf> 14823
[11:43] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: xchat? serpentine? i will wait until they built on all architectures :)
[11:47] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: but if i forget to close bugs in the future, be sure to remind me ;-p
[11:47] <HiddenWolf> dholbach, heh, I'm not browsing all bugs just yet. :)
[11:48] <seb128> dholbach: you should rather close on upload
[11:48] <HiddenWolf> dholbach, *g* Wrong move that, I don't understand the technicalities of 70% of them. ;)
[11:48] <dholbach> seb128: i don't promise users "it all works", until it really all works :)
[11:49] <ogra> HiddenWolf, oh, you are our new bugmaster ? 
[11:49] <seb128> dholbach: if you are sure you'll manage not forget any bug this way, good luck :p
[11:49] <HiddenWolf> ogra, preferably not, I'm starting my second bachelor year monday. :)
[11:50] <dholbach> seb128: i'll see how it works :)
[11:50] <seb128> dholbach: and the bug is actually closed by the upload, if that FTFBS it's an another issue
[11:51] <sivang> Kamion: so no uploads from now on, or will it be ok again in a couple of days?
[11:52] <Kamion> sivang: will be OK in a bit
[11:52] <fabbione> Kamion: i hate you... Mid-air collision detected!
[11:52] <Kamion> that partman-auto-lvm bug?
[11:52] <fabbione> yes
[11:52] <fabbione> ok hold on..
[11:53] <fabbione> Kamion: i will recommit my comments and answer to your question
[11:53] <sivang> fabbione: can I help on that one ? :)
[11:53] <sivang> fabbione: (interested to learn the technicalities invloved.....)
[11:54] <mjr> a,24
[11:56] <fabbione> sivang: we might get that thing fixed for breezy+1
[11:57] <fabbione> but not for breezy
[11:57] <fabbione> partman-auto-lvm is special
[11:58] <fabbione> sivang, Kamion: you both got spam^Wmail from bugzilla...
[11:58] <sivang> fabbione: yay :)
[11:59] <fabbione> sivang: cool, eh?
[11:59] <fabbione> isn't it?
[12:02] <sivang> fabbione: yes, indeed 
[12:03] <sivang> fabbione: I'd thank my love for LVMs for helping me find this bug, either way we should mention something on the release notes, right?
[12:11] <dholbach> bdftopcf  will have to be promoted to main,  unifont  and  xfonts-terminus  build-depend on it
[12:11] <fabbione> sivang: i need to think about it first
[12:12] <ogra> Kamion, added the missing bit to ltsp and uploaded, can you please wave through if it shows up ?
[12:13] <fabbione> Kamion: what reference do you have for lilo supporing booting from LVM?
[12:13] <fabbione> because there is only one entry in CHANGES
[12:14] <Kamion> grep -i lvm *
[12:14] <Kamion> ?
[12:14] <Kamion> loads of stuff in geometry.c
[12:14] <Kamion> plus I'm fairly sure I did it with a test Ubuntu install ages ago
[12:16] <fabbione> Kamion: it doesn't support LVM2
[12:16] <Kamion>    * Added edubuntu-artwork to desktop-amd64, desktop-ia64, desktop-
[12:16] <Kamion>      sparc, desktop-hppa
[12:16] <Kamion> ogra: what about powerpc?
[12:16] <Kamion> fabbione: ah
[12:16] <fabbione> #define MAJOR_LVM       58 /* Logical Volume Manager block device */
[12:16] <fabbione> this is coming from 2.4 kernels
[12:16] <ogra> Kamion, eek...
[12:16] <fabbione> LVM1...
[12:17] <fabbione> and LVM2 uses 254
[12:17] <fabbione> at least that's what i can see here
[12:18] <ogra> Kamion, the archive seems under heavy load, now i cant even run the update script... only corrupt Packages.bz2 files, sigh
[12:19] <fabbione> Kamion: there are also some other checks that lilo does and might easily fail
[12:19] <HiddenWolf> daniels, bug 11161 is still listed as need info, do you need any more?
[12:20] <fabbione> Kamion: see geo_get( in gemoetry.c
[12:21] <fabbione> Kamion: so if we want to assume that lilo can boot from lvm, we can reassign the bug to lilo :)
[12:22] <HiddenWolf> daniels, and i think 8438 can be closed...
[12:23] <jdub> seb128: can we get gnome-bluetooth 0.6 into breezy, and make sure nautilus-sendto is built against it? the tarball is on f.g.o, not edd's site
[12:23] <pitti> fabbione: kernel update is out, thank you for preparing it!
[12:23] <ogra> daniels, around ? 
[12:23] <fabbione> pitti: no problem.. thanks to you
[12:23] <seb128> jdub: no
[12:23] <Kamion> fabbione: or lilo-installer to make it fail on 2.6 or something, don't care either way
[12:24] <seb128> jdub: it's an universe package and we nautilus-sendto is a main package
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: only libgnomebt (and source, obviously) will have to go into main
[12:24] <seb128> jdub: that would require moving gnome-bluetooth, but when I asked to people on charge of that like 2 weeks ago they said it's not ready for that
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: we don't have to worry about the other functionality
[12:24] <seb128> jdub: gnome-bluetooth too
[12:24] <jdub> we can leave it in universe :)
[12:25] <seb128> so we can't Build-Depends on it
[12:25] <Lathiat> but nautilus-sendto is in main
[12:25] <jdub> seb128: we'd build-depend on libgnomebt-dev
[12:25] <fabbione> ROFTL at 15020
[12:25] <seb128> jdub: doesn't matter, the source is still gnome-bluetooth
[12:25] <Kamion> - -- Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>  Fri,  9 Sep 2005 03:58:21 +0200
[12:25] <Kamion> + -- Oliver Grawert <ogra@localhost>  Fri,  9 Sep 2005 03:52:16 +0200
[12:25] <Kamion> weird
[12:26] <Kamion> (edubuntu-meta 0.23's diff to the changelog entry from 0.22)
[12:26] <pitti> Riddell: is CAN-2005-2097 (the xpdf disc consumption issue) fixed in breezy's kdegraphics?
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: that would require to move the source package
[12:26] <Mithrandir> grrrr.
[12:26] <Mithrandir> dvd-rw doesn't work :/
[12:26] <ajmitch> iirc gnome-bluetooth is still a bit immature
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: yes, the source would move into main, i don't think that's a huge problem (particularly given bluetooth goal)
[12:26] <ogra> Kamion, err...
[12:26] <jdub> ajmitch: gnome-bluetooth itself, yes
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: (do you use debdiff before uploading?)
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: people working on it have raised objections when I asked a few weeks ago
[12:26] <seb128> jdub: you will have to make a wiki page and speak with mdz/pitti about it
[12:27] <jdub> seb128: g-b or the library (which is all n-st needs)?
[12:27] <seb128> I've no bluetooth stuff here, I'm not going to argue for it without playing with it
[12:27] <tseng> jdub: every source package.
[12:27] <ogra> Kamion, nope, but i unset DEBEMAIL to make sure i dont upload broken stuff before looking at the changelog
[12:27] <seb128> jdub: g-b
[12:27] <seb128> that's a source package
[12:27] <jdub> tseng: different question :)
[12:27] <tseng> ok.
[12:27] <jdub> seb128: the problems are with g-b itself, not the library (which is also in the package)
[12:28] <Riddell> pitti: KDE up to 3.4.1, so yes as breezy has 3.4.2
[12:28] <seb128> jdub: we can't move the lib without moving the source package too, and if we move the source package we have to assure security, quality, etc
[12:28] <Kamion> ogra: running debdiff is always a good idea
[12:28] <ogra> oki
[12:28] <seb128> jdub: if you feel that's not an issue just make a wiki page for it and ping mdz/pitti 
[12:28] <Kamion> just to make sure you're uploading what you think you're uploading
[12:28] <pitti> Riddell: ok, thanks
[12:29] <mjr> (so, how about compiling a universe nautilus-sendto-bluetooth that replaces nautilus-sendto)
[12:29] <sivang> fabbione: so, it seems lilo should have faild when it just continued?
[12:30] <seb128> mjr: I would rather get g-b moved if it's ready
[12:30] <seb128> duplication of same sources to build with different options is not nice
[12:30] <fabbione> sivang: it seems so.. yes
[12:31] <mjr> seb128, yah, I'm just assuming it isn't, since there seems to be such opinions around
[12:31] <seb128> jdub: I'll start by updating g-b to 0.6, let me know if you poke mdz about moving it to main please
[12:31] <mjr> haven't tried, I probably should though
[12:32] <sabdfl> seb128: please could you get Terminal and Filebrowser changes in asap, see what the fallout is? thanks
[12:33] <sabdfl> seb128: also, please could you rename Smeg menu editor to "Desktop Menu Editor"
[12:33] <sabdfl> and cc mdz, doct team on notice of that
[12:33] <seb128> sabdfl: sure, I'll do that right now
[12:33] <sabdfl> thank you
[12:34] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[12:34] <sabdfl> sorry for the late changes, hopefully we have enough time for translations
[12:34] <sabdfl> hey fabbione
[12:34] <seb128> sabdfl: the nautilus entry change has been made 2 days ago
[12:34] <sabdfl> nautilus entry change?
[12:34] <seb128> sabdfl: the gt one too, but dholbach accidently reverted it, I'm changing it again
[12:34] <sabdfl> gotcha
[12:34] <seb128> sabdfl: filebrowser
[12:34] <seb128> it's already moved to accessories
[12:35] <sabdfl> mdke: ping
[12:35] <dholbach> seb128, sabdfl: sorry for that - just didn't notice it
[12:35] <sabdfl> dholbach: np
[12:35] <Kamion> seb128: bug #15011 is for the menu editor change BTW
[12:37] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[12:46] <sivang> ah, good to be back
[12:49] <sivang> fabbione: and can you tell now if it just ignored my instruction to install on /dev/hda5 and not on the MBR? (it sure seemed so)
[12:50] <fabbione> sivang: that's something i have no idea about
[12:50] <fabbione> that's lilo-installer in anycase
[12:53] <sivang> fabbione: I see ok, well, I'd be interested in helping out on this multiple bugs sprung bug....:-) (I'll go read poke partman-lvm-auto)
[12:54] <sivang> morning mdz 
[12:54] <seb128_> sabdfl, Kamion: "Menu Editor" or "Desktop Menu Editor"?
[12:56] <Keybuk> mdz: yikes, you're up early!
[12:56] <Keybuk> seb128: "Applications Menu Editor", surely? :p
[12:56] <Keybuk> we don't have a Desktop menu
[12:56] <jdub> seb128: just "menu editor"
[12:56] <seb128_> Keybuk: sabdfl asked for "Desktop Menu Editor" and the bug state "Menu Editor"
[12:57] <seb128_> jdub: what I thought, but making sure :)
[12:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: autoreconnecting client I think
[12:57] <jdub> Keybuk: we do have a desktop menu, but it's not editable ;)
[12:57] <sivang> lol
[12:57] <seb128_> jdub: GNOME has one, we do have a System menu
[12:58] <jdub> yep
[12:58] <jdub> that's why it makes even less sense
[12:58] <jdub> seb128_: we have a "desktop" menu, gnome has a "desktop" menu and a "Desktop" menu
[12:58] <jdub> neither are editable
[12:58] <jdub> :-)
[12:58] <seb128_> right :p
[01:01] <mdke> sabdfl, hi?
[01:01] <ogra> Kamion, udeb updated, do you want me to upload it to rookery again or do you want to review it in the queue ? 
[01:04] <Kamion> ogra: upload it to rookery and I'll give it a final check over
[01:04] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[01:04] <jdub> seb128: don't make any changes based on my answer, however - you need to talk to sabdfl directly
[01:05] <seb128> jdub: waiting on his reply to upload, don't worry :)
[01:06] <ogra> Kamion, i left out the mirror/suite for now, its unlikely that we run this udeb from anywhere else than the install CD ...
[01:07] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[01:07] <pitti> Keybuk: just replied to your hct mail - ENOCASEYLOGIN
[01:07] <ogra> Kamion, uploaded for review :)
[01:07] <Keybuk> yes, I just replied to it
[01:08] <Kamion> erk, cdebconf's debconf-copydb is trashing translated fields in the target templatedb
[01:08] <Kamion> no wonder we're having localisation problems
[01:08] <Kamion> ogra: I wonder why you're bothering with an .orig.tar.gz
[01:09] <Kamion> ogra: if I were you I'd just call it version 0.1.0 and make it native
[01:09] <ogra> Kamion, i'm just used to it :)
[01:09] <Kamion> ogra: hm - bump Priority: to standard please
[01:09] <Kamion> so that it's used by default if it's on the image
[01:10] <ogra> Kamion, target is to merge it into ltsp later anyway...
[01:10] <ogra> ok
[01:10] <ajmitch> fyi, the MOTU crew are organising a bug day on the 17th, in #ubuntu-bugs
[01:10] <ajmitch> just a heads up (I'll send a mail out soon)
[01:10] <ogra> :)
[01:10] <Kamion> ogra: oh, ltsp-build-client could take a while, couldn't it? how about a progress bar?
[01:11] <Kamion> (even if that progress bar does have to sit at 0%, it's better than a blank screen)
[01:11] <ogra> Kamion, i tried, i didnt manage to get it right and the time is short...
[01:11] <ogra> hmm
[01:11] <ogra> Kamion, what about doing it right post preview ? 
[01:11] <Kamion> ogra: add an ltsp-client-builder/progress template, Type: text, _Description: Building LTSP chroot...
[01:11] <ogra> rather than having a 0% bar
[01:12] <Kamion> ogra: in debian/postinst, before apt-install ltsp-server, do 'db_progress START 0 2 ltsp-client-builder/progress'
[01:12] <Kamion> ogra: after the apt-install, do 'db_progress STEP 1'
[01:13] <Kamion> ogra: after ltsp-build-client, do 'db_progress STEP 1' and 'db_progress STOP'
[01:13] <Kamion> ogra: that's not ideal, but really a blank screen for that long will make people think the installer's crashed
[01:14] <fabbione> sivang: partman-auto-lvm needs a good rewrite and better integration with other d-i modules, like partman-auto and lvm
[01:15] <Kamion> ogra: also, "a LTSP" -> "an LTSP" in ltsp-client-builder.templates
[01:15] <ogra> ah, i missed the second one ...
[01:15] <ogra> changes uploaded
[01:20] <Kamion> ogra: "Type: text", not "Type: text, "
[01:21] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync postgresql-8.0? it fixes paths of some include files which render some packages FTBFS; no other changes that affect Ubuntu (just mips and m68k fixes)
[01:21] <\sh> btw...how expensive is beer in Canada?
[01:21] <ogra> \sh, ;)
[01:22] <Kamion> ogra: change that and I think it's fine to upload to the archive
[01:22] <ogra> Kamion, ok, thanks...
[01:22] <\sh> I have to know it ;) because then I do a lot more night work ;) too many people to drink with ;)
[01:23] <ogra> Kamion, done :)
[01:23] <maswan> they do 18MByte/s each btw
[01:23] <ogra> Kamion, any additional action required for edubuntu-meta ? (why do i always type meat first?)
[01:24] <Kamion> ogra: no, that's fine; please add ltsp-client-builder to the edubuntu installer seed, though
[01:24] <ogra> oh, yes
[01:24] <Kamion> ogra: hmm, I guess workstation installs want to preseed ltsp-client-builder/run=false?
[01:24] <ogra> yup
[01:26] <ogra> oh, and i need one change to the language stuff in preeseed, how does it behave if a package isnt there ? does it just ignore that ? gcompris-sounds-$LL moved to the archive, i'd like to add it with the other language pack stuff
[01:26] <ogra> but the number of langs is limited... so many of them would fail
[01:32] <Kamion> ogra: could you make that post-preview, please? it's a bit complicated
[01:32] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[01:32] <Kamion> thanks - requires weird cdimage changes and stuff
[01:34] <ogra> ok, seed change committed, as soon as it shows up, and if edubuntu-meta 0.34 and the udeb in the archive we can have a testbuild :)
[01:35] <ogra> oh, ltsp-client-builder hangs in NEW :/
[01:35] <ogra> indeed
[01:38] <pitti> lifeless: here?
[01:38] <lifeless> nope
[01:38] <lifeless> hes not here
[01:38] <lifeless> hes inane
[01:39] <Kamion> ogra: preseed change done
[01:39] <lifeless> erm.
[01:39] <lifeless> and insane
[01:39] <Kamion> ogra: I'm shepherding ltsp-client-builder through NEW, I just got interrupted by a phone call that's all
[01:39] <ogra> Kamion, thanks, i'll ping if everything has built
[01:40] <Kamion> it'll hit NEW again for the binaries
[01:40] <ogra> oh
[01:40] <Kamion> but that's ok
[01:41] <ogra> i always thought if you un-NEW the source its enough...
[01:41] <jbailey> mdz: Yes - I use queries and sort by last-changed-date so that I can easily see which bugs have changed.  It's a bit annoying that bugzilla announces that.
[01:41] <Kamion> ogra: no, separate override tables
[01:42] <ogra> ah
[01:42] <Kamion> NEW just means that an object isn't in the overrides
[01:42] <lifeless> pitti: pong
[01:43] <Diziet> `Bugzilla has suffered an internal error.'  Joy
[01:43] <ogra> Diziet, file a bug :p
[01:44] <pitti> lifeless: do you still have troubles with your CF card in breezy? (#12526)
[01:44] <lifeless> pitti: dont know yet, haven't tried breezy. will the livecd tell me ?
[01:44] <pitti> lifeless: yes, that should work fine
[01:45] <pitti> lifeless: the handling of removable devices is exactly the same in live and install
[01:45] <lifeless> ok, let me see if I have a cf on me
[01:45] <HiddenWolf> pitti, are floppies supposed to automount?
[01:46] <lifeless> nope
[01:46] <pitti> HiddenWolf: well, I'm not sure, they might be polled by hal
[01:46] <lifeless> I'll test when I get home, unless someone here has a cf card
[01:46] <jbailey> HiddenWolf: On ia32?  I don't think there's an event for floppies in the hardware.
[01:46] <pitti> HiddenWolf: however, I don't have a floppy in either my desktop nor my server nor my laptop
[01:46] <pitti> jbailey: hal might poll
[01:46] <HiddenWolf> pitti, 14778
[01:46] <jbailey> pitti: *puke*
[01:47] <HiddenWolf> I've got one, for bios upgrades. :)
[01:47] <pitti> HiddenWolf: anyway, clicking on the drive mount applet is certainly fine
[01:47] <jbailey> Hmm.  My alpha has a floppy drive in it. =)
[01:47] <pitti> for such an ancient method of storing data...
[01:48] <HiddenWolf> I'm trying to find bugs where I can provide useful information so some of these need info/unconfirmed bugs get fixed.
[01:49] <ogra> EEK
[01:49] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-September/010621.html
[01:49] <pitti> HiddenWolf: I think #14778 is something different
[01:50] <HiddenWolf> pitti, yup, but I can't confirm it. My floppy worked fine.
[01:50] <pitti> HiddenWolf: blkid works fine, I'm still waiting for the lshal output
[01:50] <pitti> HiddenWolf: however, I will ask him for pmount -v
[01:51] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I don't suppose my hal and pmount would be useful then?
[01:52] <pitti> HiddenWolf: if it works for you, then rather not... I followed up
[01:52] <HiddenWolf> pitti, ok
[01:52] <pitti> HiddenWolf: if you start hald in debugging mode, does it repeatedly call the floppy probe?
[01:53] <Lathiat> daniels: is there any chance of that nv overlay bug being fixed? (is it fixed upstream?)
[01:53] <HiddenWolf> wtf: opening system > administration > printers > "error loading files into library" "home/hidde/.gnome2_private" is a directory. file:///home/hidde/.gnome2_private"
[01:53] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I've never started hald in debugging mode, afaik.
[01:54] <pitti> HiddenWolf: wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices, part 2
[01:55] <HiddenWolf> pitti, with a floppy inserted I suppose?
[01:57] <HiddenWolf> pitti, doesn't poll at all.
[01:58] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ok, thanks for checking. it would probably be too ugly anyway
[01:58] <HiddenWolf> pitti, np
[01:59] <HiddenWolf> Who is the cups guy?
[01:59] <pitti> I did some fixes in the past
[01:59] <pitti> HiddenWolf: but your issue looks like "ITZ GTK BUG"
[01:59] <HiddenWolf> any clue why I get that error message I wrote above?
[02:00] <HiddenWolf> It's new, was messing a lot with a printer that won't do duplex yesterday.
[02:00] <chmj> dir
[02:00] <pitti> file
[02:00] <chmj> oops 
[02:00] <infinity> 'dir'?
[02:00] <infinity> Tsk.
[02:00] <pitti> socket!
[02:01] <seb128> pitti: I love you too :p
[02:01] <pitti> seb128: SCNR :-)
[02:01] <infinity> deltree /y c:\windows
[02:01] <infinity> Oh man, why do we ship the "dir" binary in Ubuntu?... I'm ashamed.
[02:01] <chmj> infinity: why ? 
[02:01] <infinity> (Yes, I know it's just a hardlink to ls, that's not excuse)
[02:02] <pitti> HiddenWolf: this is gnome-cups-admin, I assume you get the same when calling it from the command line?
[02:02] <HiddenWolf> pitti, wrong instruction in that wiki page: /etc/init.d/dbus-1 is just dbus in breezy. I'll fix it.
[02:02] <chmj> I use -> alias dir'ls -al -color' 
[02:02] <infinity> chmj : Encourages people to not learn UNIX commands? :)
[02:02] <pitti> HiddenWolf: well, it was dbus-1 for hoary
[02:02] <HiddenWolf> pitti, haven't tried, i'm far from an expert.
[02:02] <pitti> HiddenWolf: lemme fix it
[02:04] <HiddenWolf> pitti, seb128, that error doesn't reproduce now I open g-c-m a second time...
[02:04] <pitti> HiddenWolf: btw, restarting dbus breaks your desktop session
[02:04] <pitti> HiddenWolf: reload
[02:05] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I'll log out.
[02:05] <HiddenWolf> brb
[02:05] <ajmitch> pitti: yep, and dbus does allow reloading of the config via dbus-send
[02:05] <sabdfl> jdub, seb128, mdz: i have one further change to propose
[02:06] <sabdfl> already discussed with the doc team, they can handle it
[02:06] <sabdfl> its a double change
[02:06] <sabdfl> Add/Remove Programs needs to be at the bottom of the Applications menu
[02:06] <ajmitch> pitti: I got avahi installed & working without dbus restart thanks to Lathiat 
[02:06] <sabdfl> also, it needs a new name, that won't ExplodeOnTranslationToFrench
[02:06] <sabdfl> seb128: what is "Add Applications" in French?
[02:06] <ogra> sabdfl, or german...
[02:07] <HiddenWolf> pitti, seb128, one time weirdness only, it seems.
[02:07] <sabdfl> ogra: DasIstVerboten!
[02:07] <ogra> sabdfl, "Programme hinzuggen/entfernen" is very long
[02:07] <ogra> *hinzufgen
[02:07] <sabdfl> drop the entfernen
[02:07] <sabdfl> seb128: ^?
[02:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: gdmflexiserver -n looks a bit weird in a multihead setup
[02:08] <pitti> sabdfl: but users will also want to remove software...
[02:08] <sabdfl> pitti: less so, and that behaviour is obvious once you've used the tool
[02:08] <pitti> ogra: btw, you use dhcp3-server? did you recently had any problems with it? it somehow stopped working for me since maybe two weeks ago
[02:08] <pitti> sabdfl: true
[02:09] <lamont-away> fabbione: pong
[02:09] <ogra> pitti, for ltsp it works fine
[02:09] <sabdfl> Applications -> Add Applications is hugely discoverable
[02:09] <pitti> ogra: ok, I check it on my end nevertheless
[02:09] <fabbione> lamont-away: yo.. meh i already did.. it was about that heap corruption in iproute
[02:09] <maswan> oh. mozilla release too.
[02:09] <sabdfl> elmo: ping
[02:09] <lamont-away> fabbione: ah - I have a patch prepared, was waiting for preview to hit - or did you already upload?
[02:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: http://err.no/tmp/flexiserver-wide.png
[02:10] <fabbione> lamont-away: i used your patch and uploaded
[02:10] <lamont-away> fabbione: cool
[02:10] <jdub> sabdfl: i'd prefer it there (and designed it to be so), but giving it the right name and allowing for translations is a difficult issue
[02:10] <fabbione> lamont-away: i was going trough all the maj or > today
[02:10] <fabbione> lamont-away: but the patch is definetely sane..
[02:10] <lamont-away> fabbione: ok... and you used round 2 of my patch from that bug, yes?
[02:11] <fabbione> lamont-away: yup.. of course.. i did also check for other calloc calls outside tc/
[02:11] <ogra> pitti, note that i only use it in ltsp with a *very* simple setup, not for anything else here... 
[02:12] <pitti> ogra: for me too, I just assign an IP and nameserver to my laptop
[02:12] <pitti> my house server still runs woody
[02:12] <seb128> sabdfl: sorry, was focussing on the other chan
[02:12] <seb128> sabdfl: we did this change and rolled back
[02:13] <seb128> sabdfl: Add/Remove Applications is too long and ugly ... you want only "Add Applications"?
[02:13] <pitti> "Software installation"?
[02:13] <sabdfl> what's the translation for "Add Applications" in French?
[02:13] <pitti> hm, too generic
[02:13] <sabdfl> pitti: i want to follow the "Applications" cue from the top
[02:13] <ogra> pitti, thats synaptic ...
[02:13] <seb128> sabdfl: Ajouter des applications
[02:14] <sabdfl> ok, that'll do
[02:14] <sabdfl> DOIT
[02:14] <ogra> :)
[02:14] <seb128> sabdfl: which is fine. Add/Remove Applications would be "Ajouter/Supprimer des applications" which start beeing long and ugly :p
[02:14] <sabdfl> ok
[02:14] <seb128> mvo: could you change the menu entry title according to that?
[02:15] <jdub> all of this will go away when we don't have silly menus anymore :-)
[02:15] <sabdfl> mvo: it needs to be at the bottom of the Applications menu
[02:15] <sabdfl> doc team is briefed
[02:15] <mvo> seb128: yes
[02:15] <seb128> mvo: I'll update gnome-menus
[02:15] <sabdfl> jdub: which package contains the About Ubuntu page? The firefox home page?
[02:16] <mvo> sabdfl: ok
[02:16] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[02:16] <jdub> sabdfl: ubuntu-artwork, but the doc guys have theirs in about-ubuntu
[02:16] <jdub> sabdfl: firefox was being updated to point to / depend on it
[02:16] <sabdfl> jdub: can you resolve that, please, and get the page updated?
[02:16] <sabdfl>  - new Ubuntu CSS
[02:16] <sabdfl>  - not version specific
[02:17] <jdub> i believe the doc team about-ubuntu stuff is version specific
[02:18] <Lathiat> pitti: i emailed you about not needing to restart dbus
[02:18] <pitti> Lathiat: I saw it, thanks
[02:19] <Lathiat> pitti: so, is there any reason we can't do this in our various packages?
[02:20] <Lathiat> i plan to add this to avahis postinst
[02:20] <pitti> Lathiat: of course we should do it where necessary
[02:20] <pef> hello !
[02:20] <pitti> Lathiat: however, e. g. notification-daemon does not even need that
[02:20] <Lathiat> pitti: I think it should be done in anything that installs a system.d config file
[02:20] <Lathiat> for whatever reason
[02:20] <Lathiat> notification-daemon does do that
[02:21] <Lathiat> not sure why
[02:21] <Lathiat> since it uses the session bus exclusively
[02:21] <pitti> Lathiat: so we only need to do it in hal, I suppose
[02:22] <seb128> Mithrandir: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303801
[02:22] <Lathiat> pitti: and bluez-utils
[02:22] <Lathiat> theresa lso a bunch of universe packages that could do with it
[02:22] <Lathiat> i propse to replace their restarts with this command
[02:22] <Lathiat> would that be a problem
[02:23] <ajmitch> Lathiat: want to get a list of dbus users so we can fix them?
[02:23] <pitti> Lathiat: hal doesn't restart itself or dbus any more
[02:23] <Lathiat> ajmitch: i have a partial list
[02:23] <ajmitch> great
[02:23] <Lathiat> pitti: ok, but reloading the config can't hurt
[02:23] <ajmitch> might as well get them fixed up asap so we can test them
[02:23] <Lathiat> yeh
[02:23] <Lathiat> dhcdbd sucks
[02:23] <ajmitch> heh
[02:23] <Lathiat> it installs an allow * for everything
[02:23] <Lathiat> i made a new woen for it
[02:23] <Lathiat> i wshould send it upstream
[02:23] <Lathiat> silly redhat
[02:25] <jdub> seb128: did the system > about ubuntu file location change?
[02:25] <Mithrandir> daniels: any thoughts on  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303801
[02:25] <Mithrandir> daniels: I think the suggestion that Xnest do something sensible seems good
[02:25] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks
[02:25] <seb128> np
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Riddell: how are font fallbacks handled in KDE?
[02:26] <Mithrandir> Riddell: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14690
[02:26] <seb128> jdub: what package used to ship it?
[02:27] <seb128> jdub: I guess it has been accidently dropped
[02:27] <jdub> seb128: whoa, now it's doing yelp ghelp:about-ubuntu
[02:27] <HiddenWolf> pitti, seb128, at the moment when there is a cd/usbdrive in the pc when you boot, the first thing gnome does is pop up a wndow displaying it's contents. Isn't this wrong? It's hal coming up, not the cd being inserted. The user knows it's there already, no need to pop it in their faces.
[02:27] <ogra> Kamion, could you have another look at ltsp-client-builder ? there seems to be no build attempt yet
[02:27] <Riddell> Mithrandir: it's handled by Qt, and should do intelligent things when it can't find the character in the current font
[02:27] <seb128> jdub: since hoary
[02:27] <jdub> seb128: one of the panel patches was dropped?
[02:27] <Mithrandir> Riddell: apparently, it doesn't.
[02:28] <seb128> jdub: I doubt it, lemme have a look
[02:28] <pitti> HiddenWolf: hm, that isn't meant to happen, right
[02:28] <Kamion> ogra: it's built, binaries in NEW, I'll process them
[02:28] <ogra> ah
[02:28] <elmo> sabdfl: ?
[02:28] <sabdfl> Kamion: please could you add ubuntu-doc as a dependency of ubuntu-desktop
[02:28] <HiddenWolf> pitti, file one on hal then?
[02:29] <sabdfl> elmo: is there a problem with the mail server?
[02:29] <ogra> Kamion, then i'm ready to go with a cdimage testbuild :)
[02:29] <pitti> HiddenWolf: gnome-volume-manager, please
[02:29] <jdub> sabdfl, Kamion: ubuntu-docs
[02:29] <HiddenWolf> pitti, right, sorry
[02:29] <Kamion> sabdfl: I already seeded it earlier today, it'll be added automatically the next time we update ubuntu-meta
[02:29] <pitti> HiddenWolf: no worries, I can always reassign it
[02:29] <sabdfl> Kamion: k thanks
[02:29] <HiddenWolf> pitti, learning here. ;) I mean to help, not to cause work.
[02:29] <elmo> sabdfl: not that I can see?  several people logged on and I can connect
[02:29] <Kamion> ogra: please remove ${misc:Depends}, it isn't really appropriate for udebs
[02:29] <ogra> oki
[02:30] <pitti> HiddenWolf: oh, good bug reports are always helpful :-)
[02:30] <seb128> jdub: the menu entry is placed if DATADIR"/gnome/help/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml" exists
[02:30] <sabdfl> elmo: imaps is not working from here
[02:30] <jdub> seb128: yeah, which no longer exists
[02:30] <seb128> jdub: somebody changed this file (location)
[02:30] <elmo> sabdfl: are you still using the port 8001 hack?
[02:30] <jdub> seb128: /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[02:30] <seb128> jdub: which one should be used?
[02:30] <HiddenWolf> pitti, that's why I browse bugzilla to learn and improve/help by providing info. ;)
[02:30] <jdub> at least for now
[02:30] <elmo> sabdfl: if so, please undo that, and try again
[02:30] <seb128> jdub: that sucks
[02:30] <seb128> jdub: that's a regression
[02:31] <fabbione> sabdfl: works fine from here
[02:31] <pitti> HiddenWolf: right, many bug reports are poor and cannot be reproduced, or lack necessary info
[02:31] <sabdfl> e
[02:31] <seb128> jdub: there is no way to translate it like that ...
[02:31] <jdub> seb128: those might change again - perhaps wait for the next ubuntu-docs release
[02:31] <jdub> seb128: i know, that's one of the sucky things about going with html
[02:31] <seb128> jdub: we had translations for hoary
[02:31] <seb128> jdub: we do we have this regression?
[02:32] <sabdfl> elmo: no joy, on 993 or 8001
[02:32] <HiddenWolf> pitti, Give me a list of those, and I'll happily work down them Bugzilla search isn't that useful, and plain unfriendly.
[02:32] <seb128> s/we/why/
[02:32] <ogra> Kamion, do you need a new upload now for that ?
[02:32] <pitti> HiddenWolf: search for bugs tagged "NEEDINFO"
[02:32] <jdub> seb128: because the doc team want to ship html, not docbook
[02:32] <seb128> that's not going to work
[02:32] <HiddenWolf> pitti, won't work.
[02:32] <Kamion> ogra: I think it will probably be OK anyway, but yes please, just in case
[02:32] <pitti> HiddenWolf: oh, NEEDINFO and open
[02:33] <ogra> done
[02:33] <seb128> pitti: I've the issue with CD automounted on login and opening a nautilus window if you want to debug it with me
[02:33] <HiddenWolf> pitti, still getting unconfirmed bugs too, then.
[02:33] <HiddenWolf> seb128, want me to file a bug still?
[02:35] <Mithrandir> Riddell: can you reproduce the problem?
[02:36] <HiddenWolf> pitti, seb128: Bug 15028
[02:36] <Kamion> Mithrandir: problem with that debconf-copydb change you made a few weeks back
[02:37] <pitti> HiddenWolf: thanks
[02:37] <pitti> seb128: that bug is for me
[02:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: cdebconf doesn't understand non-UTF-8-encoded translations in the templatedb, so when you save the (debconf-generated) templatedb, it wipes out all the translations
[02:37] <HiddenWolf> pitti, greedy one! ;)
[02:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (not sure why all rather than just nearly all, since there *are* one or two UTF-8-encoded translations in there - but never mind)
[02:37] <pitti> HiddenWolf: g-v-m is my toy, and only mine! :)
[02:38] <HiddenWolf> pitti, haha
[02:38] <HiddenWolf> pitti, seriously, searching for "NEEDINFO" open nets me 200 bugs, most assigned, unconfirmed, barely any on NEED
[02:39] <jbailey> Kamion: How much love do you think cdebconf would take to actually make it usable?
[02:39] <jbailey> I guess split between coding / politics. =)
[02:39] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've changed debconf-copydb again to only save the templatedb if something changed, which should make the problem crop up a bit less often at least, and I think for now we just have to ensure that the target templatedb always has the copied template
[02:39] <Kamion> jbailey: not particularly politics, just lots of work. not willing to commit to a particular number
[02:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm..  I thought it didn't really copy the translations at all?
[02:39] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yes
[02:39] <jbailey> Kamion: Do you have a not-less-than guess?
[02:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it certainly ought to at least try, since it's just loading and saving the templatedb and cdebconf handles translations in its own templatedb just fine
[02:40] <pitti> HiddenWolf: WFM - https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEEDINFO&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdty
[02:40] <pitti> pe=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
[02:40] <pitti> oops
[02:40] <pitti> sorry
[02:40] <Kamion> jbailey: wouldn't like to do it inside three months
[02:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, it's probably just getting annoyed at non-UTF8, then.
[02:40] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay.
[02:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: iirc, cdebconf is fairly utf8-centric
[02:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it definitely skips non-UTF-8 templates entirely
[02:40] <HiddenWolf> pitti, thanks, I just found edit search. :)
[02:40] <pitti> HiddenWolf: I just selected "NEEDINFO" in the "status" filter
[02:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm thinking of making it at least store non-UTF-8 templates so that it can load/save them cleanly, even if it does nothing with them itself
[02:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I guess converting all templates to utf8 is a bit too much work?
[02:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: don't really want to have to have all the iconv tables available
[02:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: dh_installdebconf could make sure DEBIAN/templates is in utf8.
[02:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we can start moving to that now I think (it's a po-debconf thing and there was a woody->sarge transition issue involved), but even so ...
[02:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I think making cdebconf barf at non-utf8 templates would make sense, but it should probably be discussed upstream
[02:43] <Kamion> no, the problem here is that it mangles all translations in the *debconf* templates.dat in the base system
[02:43] <Kamion> so we'd have to convert all packages there before it would start working, and this is causing a breezy-critical issue
[02:43] <Mithrandir> yup.
[02:44] <Kamion> (loss of translations in timezone/apt configuration)
[02:44] <Kamion> so, pain :)
[02:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: which is why I didn't suggest to do it _now_.
[02:44] <Kamion> :)
[02:44] <Kamion> fair enough
[02:44] <Mithrandir> you want me to hack in support for loading and storing non-utf8 templates?
[02:45] <Mithrandir> and just treating them as blobs?
[02:45] <Kamion> if you could, that'd be fantastic
[02:45] <Mithrandir> sure
[02:45] <Mithrandir> better than trying to debug Qt font fallback problems in Polish. :-P
[02:45] <Kamion> I think my r30448 should be enough to let me work around the issue for noe
[02:45] <Kamion> now
[02:45] <mvo> sabdfl: gnome-app-install changed and uploaded
[02:45] <Kamion> except that if somebody typos a preseed variable name, it might all come crashing down
[02:48] <Kamion> jbailey: the other problem with the cdebconf transition is that it's kind of all or nothing
[02:48] <Kamion> jbailey: we have to be very, very confident before switching
[02:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I think cdebconf should grow a test suite
[02:49] <Kamion> definitely
[02:49] <Kamion> it's got one you can drive by hand, but not a proper automated one
[02:50] <jbailey> Kamion: Right - I was more trying to decide if the target was something I should either hack on or shut up about. =)
[02:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: of course, we should be getting proper udebs of tzsetup and apt-setup and stuff in dapper, so we can lose this particular hack
[02:52] <ogra> oh, secret name leaking ? 
[02:52] <ogra> :)
[02:52] <Kamion> I don't even know if that name's final yet; it's just a handy working name
[02:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, but we use it for live as well
[02:53] <Kamion> yeah
[02:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and I don't think we want a xorg to begin creating udebs..
[02:53] <Mithrandir> not even "config-live-xsession"-style udebs
[02:53] <pitti> ogra: I hope it will change, "depper" sounds soo ugly at least in my ears.. - like the German "Depp"
[02:53] <ogra> yep
[02:53] <pitti> ogra: but I heard it from different sides already...
[02:53] <ogra> me too
[02:53] <Kamion> it's *a* not *e*
[02:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: dapper, not depper
[02:54] <mpt> Mithrandir: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94091
[02:54] <pitti> right, same thing though
[02:54] <ogra> but there is no difference in prononcation between the two in german
[02:54] <Kamion> Mithrandir: adding a debian-installer/keymap template to xserver-xorg.templates would be sufficient to work around this bug there
[02:54] <pitti> ogra: let's see what the second name is :-)
[02:54] <ogra> yup
[02:55] <ogra> donkey would be cool.... but its bad marketing wise :)
[02:55] <desrt> so.. if i get 2 emails about UBZ sponsorship i should ignore the first one? :)
[02:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and arguably correct anyway
[02:55] <pitti> ogra: it's not a hog...
[02:55] <pitti> well, badger isn't either
[02:55] <ogra> desrt, nope, you have to show up twice then ;)
[02:55] <desrt> ogra; one of them was a rejection :P
[02:55] <ogra> oh ...
[02:55] <desrt> (exactly one of them)
[02:56] <Mithrandir> mpt: not the same, but similar.  I had my time set back, which meant the progress meters just stopped.
[02:56] <\sh> desrt: ask claire ;)
[02:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'd argue; .debs shouldn't use the debian-installer/* namespace
[02:56] <ogra> desrt, i'd mail back and ask which one i should take serious
[02:56] <Kamion> Mithrandir: base-config does
[02:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: but it's a clean workaround.
[02:56] <Diziet> Cripes, the Flash player licence is evil.
[02:56] <ajmitch> desrt: hopefully that means you're going
[02:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: base-config is thpetul
[02:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and remember xserver-xorg is already looking at debian-installer/keymap
[02:57] <jbailey> Diziet: Catching up on your /.? =)
[02:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's perfectly legitimate for it to have the template for it as well, I think
[02:57] <desrt> ajmitch; i think i was going to go either way
[02:57] <Diziet> No, trying to fix mozilla bugs.  Why, are they discussing it on /. ?
[02:57] <jbailey> Someone claimed that the flash license prohibited you from installing it on a laptop.
[02:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and true, base-config is rather special in this regard ...
[02:57] <Diziet> I'm one of those weirdos who actually reads things before signing (or, in this case, clicking ok).
[02:57] <jbailey> Made front page for some reason.
[02:58] <ajmitch> jbailey: because it specifically mentioned desktop? 
[02:58] <jbailey> ajmitch: I don't remember.  I see the headlines on my google home page and didn't read further than the first line.
[02:59] <teprrr> hmm, how soon breezy will be out? just thinking will libgl/dri/gl stuff be usable by then?
[03:00] <Kamion> teprrr: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[03:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and, isn't b-c going away at some point anyway? :-)
[03:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: looking at != having the template itself, imo
[03:00] <Kamion> Mithrandir: theoretically yeah ...
[03:00] <Mithrandir> Kamion: anyway, I think we're mostly in agreement and there are more pressing issues, so
[03:00] <Kamion> that's some way in the future though, even in the best of all possible worlds :)
[03:00] <infinity> teprrr : It'll be fine.
[03:00] <pef> does gnome2.12 will be integrated into breezy before the release ?
[03:01] <Kamion> pef: it already has been.
[03:01] <teprrr> infinity, hmm..
[03:01] <Diziet> 14:00:50.722839 IP (tos 0x0, ttl  64, id 62596, offset 0, flags [DF] , proto: TCP (6), length: 60) 172.18.45.41.59448 > 192.168.0.201.443: S, cksum 0x2efc (correct), 2089739431:2089739431(0) win 5840 <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 8723421 0,nop,wscale 2> ???
[03:01] <pef> Kamion: wow, you are fast !
[03:01] <Kamion> pef: see the ubuntu-announce mailing list
[03:01] <pef> ok
[03:02] <HiddenWolf> pef, 2.11.9X has been in for a while, it was just a minor update to get 2.12 in. ;)
[03:02] <ivoks> hi
[03:02] <Diziet> Why is Firefox (or the plugin installer) trying to connect somewhere random in RFC1918 space ?
[03:04] <Diziet> I blame NAT.
[03:05] <HiddenWolf> seb128_, I've got a problem with device icons on the desktop showing in the wrong place. Half off the screen, for instance. Known?
[03:06] <seb128_> HiddenWolf: yep, known
[03:06] <HiddenWolf> browing gnome
[03:09] <seb128_> HiddenWolf: is that with nautilus 2.12? they fixed some placement issues
[03:10] <HiddenWolf> Yes it is.
[03:10] <HiddenWolf> seb128_, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45953
[03:11] <HiddenWolf> partial patch, but not "lazy-icon aware" so not commited, it seems.
[03:15] <HiddenWolf> seb128_, actually, patch that should work in a 23-aug-05 mail, but nothing followed up.
[03:16] <seb128_> the bug you pointed is not the bug you described
[03:17] <HiddenWolf> seb128_,isn't it?
[03:18] <seb128_> no
[03:18] <seb128_> the bug you pointed is device icons going on top of other icons
[03:18] <HiddenWolf> Hm. right you are.
[03:18] <HiddenWolf> Can't find the wrong placement then.
[03:20] <seb128_> HiddenWolf: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159621 by example, but this one is fixed now
[03:20] <HiddenWolf> seb128_, want a screenshot?
[03:20] <seb128_> HiddenWolf: no, I know the issue
[03:20] <seb128_> that's the same as on this bug
[03:21] <seb128_> but for the desktop
[03:21] <HiddenWolf> seb128_, and it's the desktop, not nautilus. ;)
[03:21] <seb128_> the desktop is nautilus
[03:21] <HiddenWolf> right.
[03:21] <HiddenWolf> so nautilus can look decent? ;)
[03:21] <seb128_> jamesh: ping?
[03:30] <Diziet> In fact, the reason why plugin downloading isn't working is because mozilla.org is giving out duff redirects.  Haven't they noticed ???
[03:30] <HiddenWolf> Diziet, moz.org has bigger problems. ;)
[03:32] <Diziet> Oh, Am I missing some news ?
[03:33] <ogra> Kamion, did you unqueue 0.1.0-2 ? 
[03:34] <Kamion> ogra: oh, drat, no, sorry - done now
[03:34] <ogra> thanks :)
[03:38] <pitti> bah, get-source takes ages...
[03:44] <pitti> Good morning lamont
[03:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: humm, it appears cdebconf explicitly doesn't allow you to set foo-$LANGCODE.nonutf-8 fields.
[03:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: so the loading probably fails, and when it's then written out again all the non-utf8 fields are dropped.
[03:48] <Kamion> right ...
[03:48] <dholbach> we're on LWN: http://lwn.net/Articles/150971/ - just a brief mention, but even so :)
[03:48] <Kamion> I think they're ignored on load
[03:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, load does a t->lset
[03:49] <teprrr> preview without working  opengl support, huh?
[03:49] <teprrr> or has it been fixed?
[03:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, and lset skips non-UTF-8 fields
[03:52] <teprrr> hmm, doesn't seem to work
[03:52] <lamont> morning pitti
[03:52] <lamont> pitti: you going to Oldenburg?
[03:53] <pitti> lamont: no, I have a long-standing family event at that time; joeyh and I agreed to an IRC meeting instead
[03:53] <lamont> ah, ok.  /me is going
[03:53] <lamont> need to book travel today
[03:53] <jbailey> lamont: To Oldenburg?
[03:53] <lamont> ya
[03:54] <jbailey> lamont: For d-i, obscure hardware, or the Java DevJam?
[03:54] <lamont> http://wiki.debian.net/?OldenburgSecuritySummit
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Kamion: humm, humm, so it should probably allow people to lset non-utf8 fields, then?  Or just add a "force" parameter to lset?
[03:54] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:54] <jbailey> Insane.  Ther'es *more* going on there?
[03:54] <jbailey> It was crazy last year as it was.
[03:54] <jbailey> I had a great time, though.
[03:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I was thinking the former
[03:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm trying to think of what, if anything, will break.
[03:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if the templates are ever printed, they might fuck the display totally
[03:56] <Kamion> cdebconf would definitely have to ensure never to *use* non-UTF-8 templates
[03:57] <lamont> s
[03:57] <ogra> lamont thats not this far... 
[03:57] <ogra> lamont, if it doesnt stop in any 4 house village, it should be around an hour
[03:58] <lamont> heh
[03:58] <lamont> jbailey: they're also working on non-i386 ports :-)
[03:58] <jbailey> lamont: YEah, that's how the whole thing started.  Obscure hardware hacking session.
[03:58] <jbailey> lamont: At this rate it's growing so much, joey will never be allowed to graduate.
[03:59] <lamont> hehe
[03:59] <lamont> ogra: cost estimate (WAG acceptable)
[03:59] <lamont> ?
[04:00] <ogra> hmm, 50 or less i think
[04:00] <ogra> for one direction
[04:01] <ogra> (cologne - frankfurt costs 58 it will be a bit less)
[04:08] <mdke> sabdfl, i can't apply that patch >_<
[04:08] <mdke> sabdfl, problem seems to be that the version number you worked from is not the latest one in my svn tree
[04:08] <mdke> sabdfl, just send me the whole file and I'll insert it?
[04:10] <sabdfl> mdke: sent
[04:10] <mdke> sabdfl, ty
[04:11] <mdke> sabdfl, uploaded
[04:12] <sabdfl> mdke: thanks muchly
[04:14] <spacey> canonical has an office somewhere?
[04:16] <mdke> spacey, yes
[04:16] <ogra> spacey, yes, one at freenode and a real one :)
[04:16] <spacey> hehe ;)
[04:16] <jdub> spacey: most of our offices are at our homes, but there is one in london, too. :-)
[04:16] <jdub> ogra: how many steps away from your office are you?
[04:16] <ogra> 0 ?
[04:16] <jdub> haha, not now ;)
[04:17] <spacey> canonical does internship kind of things? 
[04:17] <ogra> still only between 0 and 20 normally depends if i move out to the garden :)
[04:18] <anyw> hi
[04:19] <anyw> Is there anyone who has participed at the google summer of code here ?
[04:19] <anyw> breezy bounties
[04:20] <spacey> sabdfl, ? :D
[04:21] <mvo> spacey: it's easy to participate, help with bugs, become a motu etc
[04:22] <HiddenWolf> mvo, make me a motu! ;)
[04:22] <spacey> mvo, i would have to be able to convince my school that they give me study points for it
[04:22] <mvo> HiddenWolf: you aren't one already?
[04:23] <HiddenWolf> mvo, no. My coding skills are currently limited to "hello world" in 3 languages. 
[04:23] <HiddenWolf> mvo, looking to change that tho.
[04:24] <mvo> spacey: it sounds like it's worth a try, working on open-source is certainly a good way to get experience in international coding projects
[04:24] <pitti> HiddenWolf: is python amongst the 3? :-)
[04:24] <mvo> HiddenWolf: well, if python is among them, that's a start :)
[04:24] <HiddenWolf> pitti, mvo: you're in luck. :)
[04:25] <pitti> HiddenWolf: we have a small python project called "launchpad". Just fix all of its bugs and we give you 1.000 study points
[04:25] <spacey> mvo, thats why i ask :) but it think i need some agreement with for example canonical towards school
[04:25] <pitti> erm sorry - s/Hiddenwolf/spacey/
[04:26] <spacey> pitti, problem is i don't know python. not that i mind learning it.
[04:26] <pitti> spacey: just kidding :-) 
[04:26] <spacey> :p
[04:26] <anyw> Has anyone won an award?
[04:26] <mvo> spacey: I think that can be arranged, how big does your project has to be?
[04:27] <spacey> 1000 study points would be quite convienant? :p lots more then i can get with my whole study ;p
[04:27] <HiddenWolf> pitti, now name me a real small cute python project, and I'd be interested.
[04:27] <spacey> mvo almost 2 months
[04:27] <mvo> spacey: what language/topic? can you work on existing projects or will it need to be a new one?
[04:27] <HiddenWolf> pitti, and don't bribe me with pionts. I'd have a hard time to convince the Rotterdam School of Management that Linux even exists. ;)
[04:27] <ogra> damned, Kamion, ping
[04:28] <ajmitch> HiddenWolf: so help out the MOTUs, get fame & glory instead ;)
[04:28] <pitti> HiddenWolf: bribe them with a box of 100 Ubuntu CDs then 
[04:28] <ajmitch> you don't need points when you have the prestige of being a MOTU
[04:28] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I'd gladly put CD boxes outside of all major auditoriums, but I doubt it'd be appreciated. :)
[04:29] <HiddenWolf> ajmitch, motu doesn't pay rent, does it? ;)
[04:29] <anyw> please, I just want to know if anyone has won an award?
[04:29] <maswan> btw, working on offloading se.releases, it is getting silly slow now.
[04:29] <mvo> HiddenWolf: think of it as a long-term investment ;)
[04:29] <ajmitch> HiddenWolf: forget about such mundane things :)
[04:29] <mvo> anyw: what kind of award?
[04:29] <pitti> anyw: award about what?
[04:29] <HiddenWolf> ajmitch, I hate going hungry, sorry. :)
[04:29] <maswan> just takes a bit of time, since I need to update from se.archive. :)
[04:29] <ajmitch> HiddenWolf: so do I..
[04:30] <spacey> mvo, i have to talk with school about that, i guess it could be an existing one. For myself I would want to get to know ubuntu in and out in those two months, and get experience giving support and master packaging.
[04:30] <Kamion> ogra: ?
[04:30] <pitti> anyw: you mean got a bounty? yes, kronoss has, but he is not online ATM
[04:30] <HiddenWolf> mvo, I do. Just need to get some place to start. I don't work well on long-term goals. :)
[04:30] <ogra> Kamion, i just saw that i forgot schooltool, its in anastacia since a week waiting for main approval...
[04:31] <ogra> Kamion, could you process it ? its approved and everything since a while
[04:31] <dholbach> ha, new gnome-phone-manager - bluetooth fun :)
[04:32] <ajmitch> dholbach: oh great, I'll have to try it :)
[04:32] <Kamion> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue lists several Edubuntu items; is schooltool the only preview-critical one?
[04:32] <anyw> pitti, ok, how long he has worked for it ? on which project ?
[04:32] <pitti> anyw: #ubuntu, please
[04:32] <mitsuhiko> hi gys: http://releases.ubuntu.com/5.10/ <== all i get is 403 :(
[04:33] <ogra> Kamion, its not preview *critical* but its approved and everything i got in now i dont have to beg for later...
[04:33] <ogra> Kamion, i'd like to have it in...
[04:34] <ogra> Kamion, all the other stuff in the queue are "needs work" items or listed falsely (i.e. mediawiki should be rejected)
[04:34] <Kamion> ok, give me a few minutes until cron.daily finishes
[04:34] <ogra> Kamion, ta i'll fix the seeds
[04:35] <spacey> mvo i just mailed my school if they would allow such a thing. guess i have to wait for response.
[04:36] <Kamion> elmo: uh ... how did schooltool manage to end up without any source overrides?
[04:36] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:~$ sudo -u katie katie/teri -s breezy -c main -t schooltool
[04:36] <Kamion> E: schooltool doesn't exist in overrides for breezy.
[04:37] <Kamion> ogra: btw the longer this takes this afternoon, the less likely it is to get released today - I did a marathon yesterday, I don't want to do another one today
[04:38] <ogra> Kamion, only this piece... then we can directly start the cdbuild
[04:38] <Kamion> don't you need to modify edubuntu-meta again to get schooltool in?
[04:39] <Kamion> and by the way you don't need to comment stuff out of the server seed pending main inclusion - the update script will automatically exclude things not in main, now that it's been fixed not to look at universe
[04:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do you think anybody would be massively unhappy if I just ran indent over cdebconf?
[04:39] <pitti> ogra: do you need any main approvals?
[04:40] <ogra> pitti, nope
[04:40] <ogra> pitti, thanks
[04:40] <ogra> Kamion, yes, i need to modify edubuntu-meta again :/
[04:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: if you could pick a coding style that produces minimal diffs ...
[04:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, pick one, pick any.  It's a massive gob of coding styles already.
[04:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I was talking about in svn, really.
[04:41] <Kamion> yeah, I know
[04:42] <Kamion> and there are active committers (*cough*attilio*cough*) who wouldn't recognise a consistent coding style if it hit them in the face, and who are actively committing stuff that's all over the place
[04:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: mail -boot to make sure nobody has any outstanding major patches they want to merge first?
[04:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, I should catch up my massive chunk of unread mails there too, I guess.
[04:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: anyway, it's weekend for me now; I'll see what I can do over the weekend
[04:43] <Kamion> ok, cool
[04:44] <Diziet> I guess we're not likely to be out of freeze today ?
[04:44] <Kamion> Diziet: not in the sense that uploads will be processed automatically; but feel free to upload things if you don't mind them sitting in a queue for a bit
[04:45] <Kamion> ogra: if this isn't preview-critical, I'd rather we proceeded with CD builds without it
[04:45] <Diziet> Oh, good.
[04:45] <Kamion> ogra: otherwise I foresee a substantial part of my evening being eaten up by this
[04:45] <Diziet> I'll send the new mozilla this afternoon, then.
[04:45] <ogra> Kamion, ok... should i change the seeds back ? 
[04:46] <Nafallo> maswan: ping
[04:46] <Kamion> ogra: for now, yes please
[04:46] <Diziet> I want to get something out there with the textarea crash fixed before I start digging for more nontrivial bugs.
[04:46] <Kamion> I've done the main promotion, so you can reapply that right after release
[04:46] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[04:47] <ogra> Kamion, so if the seedchange is up you could pull the trigger :)
[04:47] <Kamion> ogra: when you commit it ...
[04:48] <ogra> sorry, my net hung a bit
[04:48] <ogra> its committed now
[04:48] <maswan> Nafallo: pong
[04:49] <Kamion> ogra: OK, CD builds running
[04:49] <Nafallo> maswan: is there something wrong with se.releases...
[04:49] <Nafallo> ?
[04:49] <maswan> Nafallo: you mean, there used to be something wrong?
[04:49] <Nafallo> maswan: people complain to me that it's down ;-)
[04:50] <Nafallo> maswan: it's awfully slow here :-). have you fixed it already?
[04:50] <maswan> Nafallo: one of the frontends rebooted, took the filesystem down a while with it. now the fs is up again, even if the one node might not have booted properly yet, most of it works.
[04:50] <Nafallo> maswan: oki, thanx :-)
[04:50] <maswan> Nafallo: We're working on getting a fixed gigE driver, we're currently running it on one to see if that one won't reboot as often.
[04:51] <Nafallo> maswan: yay! :-)
[04:51] <ogra> Kamion, thanks! :)
[04:54] <dholbach> Mithrandir: 14951 was assigned to you - unifont build-depends on  bdttopcf  which now is in a separate package (in universe) - i write the main inclusion report for it, ok?
[04:55] <Kamion> dholbach: that used to be in xutils (in hoary main) so I'll just promote it under obviousness rules
[04:55] <dholbach> Kamion: oh thank you - that's less painful for me :)
[04:56] <pitti> dholbach, Kamion: quick security and package check is fine
[04:57] <dholbach> pitti: thank you
[04:58] <elmo> kamion: because source is assumed from binary if it doesn't exist
[04:59] <seb128> Lathiat: ping?
[04:59] <Lathiat> seb128: pong
[04:59] <Kamion> elmo: oh, so moving binary then source caused problems?
[04:59] <seb128> Lathiat: what is debian/patches/01_gnome-ui-appbar-fix.patch from gnome-bluetooth for?
[04:59] <Lathiat> seb128: if i recall, the appbar type didnt exist or someting
[04:59] <elmo> can do, teri's override handling is pretty retarded
[05:00] <Lathiat> seb128: and as such it didnt work/run at all
[05:00] <elmo> ^-- kamion: 
[05:00] <jdub> http://www.tectonic.co.za/viewr.php?id=595
[05:00] <jdub> ^ :-) :-)
[05:00] <Lathiat> seb128: iirc python no longer wrapped it or something.. or i couldnt find it at the time
[05:00] <Lathiat> seb128: i totally forgot i ever made that
[05:01] <Kamion> elmo: ok, fixed (echo schooltool universe/misc | natalie -t dsc -c universe --add; teri -c main -t schooltool - seemed to work)
[05:01] <seb128> Lathiat: k, thanks .. upstream made some changes but not the same as you, so I was wondering
[05:01] <slomo> elmo: did ipod-sharp and libipoddevice arrive in NEW yesterday? i don't know because the maintainer address isn't mine (and isn't even whitelisted for katie) but the one from the debian mono group
[05:01] <Lathiat> seb128: ok, feel free to nuke it
[05:01] <seb128> Lathiat: we can probably go with upstream fix so
[05:01] <Lathiat> seb128: as long as it works
[05:01] <seb128> Lathiat: thanks
[05:01] <Lathiat> where was that patch?
[05:01] <Lathiat> in debian or ubuntu?
[05:01] <seb128> yeah, was just not sure if you made that for cosmetic reason 
[05:01] <seb128> Lathiat: Ubuntu
[05:02] <Kamion> jdub: rock
[05:02] <Lathiat> seb128: does the new bluetooth manager do anything yet?
[05:02] <Lathiat> seb128: if you need some testing i have a bluetooth laptop & phone, feel free to throw my way
[05:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (oh yeah, bdftopcf promoted)
[05:03] <dholbach> Lathiat: uploaded a new gnome-phone-manager some minutes ago :)
[05:03] <Lathiat> dholbach: cool
[05:04] <dholbach> and it didnt build GNA
[05:04] <seb128> Lathiat: dunno, I don't have bluetooth stuff .. jdub asked for an update to gnome-bluetooth 0.6, doing it now
[05:04] <torkel> jdub: we want/need HP _servers_ with Ubuntu, it's to hard to building laptop clusters :-)
[05:04] <jdub> torkel: soon, soon ;)
[05:05] <jdub> seb128: i'll happily test (we'll need a nautilus-sendto respin too)
[05:05] <ogra> torkel, whats wrong with laptop clusters :)
[05:05] <ogra> torkel, they even briong their own ups per node ;)
[05:05] <seb128> jdub: are you going to make a wiki page for g-b to main?
[05:06] <mdke> elmo, have you got a spare minute to make rob^ an svn commit account?
[05:06] <seb128> jdub: or the lib binary package
[05:06] <jdub> seb128: hrm, after testing, yeah
[05:06] <seb128> jdub: cool, thanks
[05:06] <torkel> ogra: you can't access the bios remotely :-)
[05:06] <ogra> torkel, hmm, true :)
[05:07] <torkel> ogra: and you don't need the monitor :-)
[05:07] <mdke> elmo, correction, give him his old password (he lost it)
[05:07] <ogra> torkel, as well as the keyboard or touchpad :)
[05:08] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/dsc02668.jpg <- lots of laptops being used as servers, theyre even HP :)
[05:08] <torkel> jdub: you never get back to us about kerbers/afs/...?
[05:08] <Lathiat> dont mind the windows one thats prominent, the rest ran debian or ubuntu :)
[05:08] <ogra> torkel, we have ocfs2 support in the kernel now ;)
[05:08] <jdub> torkel: hmm - sent request for info some time before my last trip
[05:09] <torkel> ogra: ocfs2 is not a // filesystem :-P
[05:09] <torkel> jdub: you did?
[05:09] <torkel> ogra: we want lustre...
[05:10] <maswan> torkel: or something else that is fast and doesn't dpeend on a SAN.
[05:10] <maswan> well, fast and stable, I guess. :)
[05:10] <jdub> torkel: i think june; don't have mail archives here, will fetch on monday
[05:11] <torkel> jdub: I think maswan sent you some info
[05:11] <jdub> earlier than that i htink
[05:11] <torkel> anyway... it is weekend now
[05:12] <jdub> torkel: clusterfs were not very responsive, btw
[05:12] <jdub> torkel: think we'll hve more leverage now though
[05:13] <jdub> maswan: do you like gfs?
[05:13] <maswan> yeah, I think I answered your questions. let me know if there is something unanswered I missed
[05:14] <maswan> jdub: gfs is aimed towards failover/redundancy when you have a san. not very close to our situation.
[05:14] <jdub> yeah
[05:15] <Nafallo> maswan: rock on! :-)
[05:23] <Riddell> pitti: do you know why hal depends on python-launchpad-integration?
[05:24] <ogra> Riddell, hal-device-manager should...
[05:24] <Nafallo> Riddell, ogra: don't you guys read breezy-changes? ;-)
[05:24] <pitti> Riddell, ogra: latest hal doesn't any more
[05:24] <pitti> it's just still stuck in the queue
[05:25] <pitti> blame mvo :-)
[05:25] <ogra> Nafallo, i'm concentrated on edubuntu today :)
[05:25] <Nafallo> ogra: :-)
[05:26] <Riddell> pitti: ah hah
[05:31] <ogra> Kamion, cdimages done, report is empty :) now cross your fingers that the installer changes work :)
[05:31] <ogra> rsyncing ...
[05:33] <seb128> jdub: hum. evolution changed its menu entry? I'm not sure, but it used to open on the groupware no?
[05:34] <jdub> seb128: the panel one? hrm, not too sure it matters
[05:34] <jdub> seb128: unless i'm misunderstanding you
[05:35] <seb128> jdub: the panel one ... we made an evolution-mail.desktop for a reason
[05:36] <seb128> jdub: but currently the upstream entry opens evolution with the previous mode .. not sure if that was the case before
[05:36] <jdub> pretty sure it was
[05:37] <jdub> we made the evolution-mail one for the 'internet' menu
[05:37] <seb128> yeah
[05:37] <jdub> so it was more obvious that it did email
[05:37] <seb128> but why do we keep the other one?
[05:37] <jdub> because it makes sense in that menu too ;)
[05:38] <seb128> shouldn't this one be a -c calendar or something?
[05:39] <jdub> hrm, no, it's good that it loads whatever the user was previously using
[05:40] <ogra> Kamion, ltsp-update-sshkeys is missing from the preseed file :/
[05:41] <Nafallo> seb128: have time to help me figure out what goes wrong with the mail-hotkey? :-)
[05:41] <Simira> ruffruff
[05:41] <seb128> Nafallo: not really
[05:42] <maswan> http://farbror.acc.umu.se/stats/monitordata/index.shtml
[05:42] <Nafallo> seb128: oki, ping me when you do :-)
[05:42] <seb128> Nafallo: I've a lot of bugs on my list, and this one requires some code debug probably ...
[05:42] <maswan> the test0 host is starting to pick up (getting redirects for i386-install only for now)
[05:42] <Nafallo> seb128: yepp, I'll try to remember to use the panelicon then :-)
[05:42] <seb128> Nafallo: thanks
[05:45] <Kamion> ogra: oh, damnit, sorry
[05:45] <Kamion> ogra: where should that go? in base-config/late_command?
[05:45] <ogra> Kamion, i'll test the current one
[05:45] <ogra> yup
[05:46] <ogra> Kamion, if the current one is ok and the command is in the next, i think we're fine...
[05:46] <Kamion> ogra: which architecture would you prefer me to test first? it will take a little while to rsync
[05:46] <ogra> i can only test i386 here, pick what you like :)
[05:46] <Kamion> I'll take powerpc then
[05:47] <ogra> Kamion, but clear wording from mdz was i386 is the only essential bit... 
[05:47] <Kamion> fine
[05:47] <ogra> the others are nice to haves :)
[05:47] <ogra> our announcement refers to that ...
[05:48] <Kamion> ogra: late_command updated, rebuilding
[05:48] <ogra> (and i dont want to eat more of your time than necessary, you already saved my ass )
[05:49] <mdz> ogra: what I said was that powerpc wasn't critical for preview
[05:50] <mdz> it's almost nonexistent in educational deployments from what I have heard
[05:50] <ogra> mdz, yes, sorry, wrong wording
[05:50] <mdz> amd64 is important
[05:50] <Kamion> argh
[05:50] <Kamion> although I do want to test powerpc due to the bootloader changes I did today which should make it work
[05:50] <jbailey> mdz: I'm surprised.  Apple used to cut some great deals for schools.
[05:50] <ogra> mdz, there are some imacs i heard... a WS install should be there at least
[05:51] <mdz> jbailey: on 68k hardware...;-)
[05:51] <pitti> Morning mdz
[05:51] <ogra> mdz, amd64 thin clients ? 
 dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/linux-kernel-headers_2.6.11.2-0ubuntu11_i386.deb (--unpack):
[05:51] <jbailey> I said nothing, you heard nothing, drop the thought from your mind....
  trying to overwrite `/usr/include/asm/bootsetup.h', which is also in package amd64-libs-dev
[05:51] <seb128> is that a known issue?
[05:51] <mdz> ogra: amd64 servers
[05:51] <seb128> upgrade from a hoary (maybe with some changes) to current
[05:51] <seb128> hi mdz
[05:51] <pitti> seb128: it's universe anyway
[05:51] <ogra> mdz, yes, but the client environment will be built for the same arch by default?
[05:52] <Kamion> well, the yaboot.conf on current powerpc images looks OK at least
[05:52] <mdz> morning all
[05:52] <ogra> morning mdz 
[05:52] <ogra> heh
[05:53] <seb128> mdz: is that ok to update gnumeric? They have rolled 1.5.90 and 1.6.0 is planned for next week? Bug fixes versions and we already have 1.5.n, so better to go with 1.6.0
[05:54] <dholbach> morning mdz
[05:55] <bddebian> Heya mdz
[05:55] <jsgotangco> he dholbach
[05:58] <mdz> seb128: to 1.5.90 or 1.6.0?
[05:58] <mdz> ogra: i386 thin clients with an amd64 server is a very important configuration that everyone tells us they want
[05:59] <mdz> ogra: therefore edubuntu needs to work on amd64
[05:59] <seb128> mdz: 1.5.3 to 1.5.90 now, and 1.5.90 to 1.6.0 next week
[05:59] <seb128> mdz: 1.5.90 is the candidate for 1.6.0
[05:59] <ogra> mdz, yes, but you'll have to set up the chroot manually then 
[06:00] <ogra> mdz, so its not the super duper fully automatic install anymore...
[06:00] <mdz> ogra: ...
[06:01] <ogra> writing CD ...
[06:01] <mdz> ogra: can you see the difference between "a manual step is required to set up the chroot" and "amd64 doesn't work"L
[06:01] <mdz> ?
[06:01] <ogra> mdz, sure...
[06:01] <mdz> ok
[06:02] <mdz> it needs to install
[06:02] <mdz> and we should provide documentation for the extra step required to set up for i386 thin clients
[06:02] <ogra> yup
[06:03] <ogra> we have a draft of the cookbook already, i'll add a section for that
[06:08] <jsgotangco> i thought you always burn slower
[06:08] <ogra> i burn at 8x, but the writer operates at 4x obviously...
[06:08] <ogra> it shows 4.2 currently
[06:09] <bddebian> elmo rocks
[06:14] <xTina> *sigh* I seem to be unable to completely turn off partman and all partitioning-related stuff in a breezy installation through a udeb exclude file in combination with a custom udeb that "provides" made-filesystems, mounted-partitions, partitioned-harddrives and created-fstab :(
[06:18] <eruin> did the fglrx fixes make it intime for preview?
[06:18] <eruin> ah, pendingupload
[06:18] <eruin> nm
[06:19] <slomo> hi... is there any good reason why lftp and gftp are compiled without ssl support? see https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12671 for example...
[06:19] <Nafallo> slomo: licenseissues AFAIK
[06:19] <Kamion> slomo: probably licensing, last I heard lftp was GPL with no licensing exception and didn't support gnutls, and openssl's licence is GPL-incompatible
[06:20] <Kamion> as in, explicitly so
[06:21] <slomo> huh... ok... didn't know that :/ so maybe something to bug upstream about?
[06:21] <Kamion> I suspect they've heard
[06:21] <Kamion> http://www.mail-archive.com/lftp@uniyar.ac.ru/msg02022.html
[06:22] <slomo> ok, thanks :)
[06:23] <Kamion> dunno about gftp
[06:23] <maswan> "3.2.0 is out and GNU TLS support is there" <- from that same thread
[06:23] <Nafallo> Kamion: same last time I bugged the debian maintainer about it ;-)
[06:23] <mdz> lamont: the process is "be careful and ask mdz if you are uncertain"
[06:24] <slomo> Kamion:  yes we have lftp 3.2.1... which could be compiled against gnutls... is this something we could get in breezy? lftp is main
[06:24] <Kamion> ogra: hmm, I get a bogus netcfg/get_ipaddress template displayed
[06:24] <Kamion> slomo: don't know
[06:25] <slomo> Kamion: who is to be asked for that? i can prepare a debdiff and everything ;)
[06:25] <Kamion> slomo: file a bug or something?
[06:25] <lamont> mdz: OK.  I just noticed that fabbione's upload for iproute, as well as a potential sync of blender are pending...
[06:26] <lamont> actually, fabbione's upload sent mail to -changes, but the bits aren't on archive.u.c yet
[06:26] <slomo> Kamion: there already is a bug... #12671
[06:26] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, strange i just had this step here, was working right
[06:26] <Kamion> ogra: can we take out those netcfg preseeds you had me add? I don't have time to figure out why I'm getting the debian-installer/dummy template displayed for them right now, and those preseeds are non-critical
[06:26] <mdz> lamont: uploads were approval-only during the critical time around preview
[06:27] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, but they work on i386... hard to decide...
[06:27] <Kamion> there is a substantial amount of lightning around here and my lights are flickering; if I go offline, I've probably lost either power or ADSL
[06:27] <lamont> ISTR he did it after preview (but before I woke up after-preview and was going to do it..)
[06:27] <lamont> anyway, must go pester people - back in a bit
[06:27] <Kamion> ogra: also the default answer to the gateway question is bogus because of a known netcfg bug when you preseed *.1
[06:27] <Kamion> for the IP address
[06:27] <mdz> lamont: "around" preview included a bit after.  it's flowing again now
[06:28] <ogra> Kamion, can you take it out on amd64 only ? 
[06:28] <Kamion> ogra: not easily
[06:28] <ogra> hm
[06:28] <Kamion> ogra: and you will hit said netcfg bug on i386 too
[06:28] <Kamion> the default gateway is set to "192.168.0."
[06:28] <ogra> the gw, yes...
[06:28] <Kamion> I'm strongly inclined to be conservative and remove them, and figure out the problem after preview
[06:29] <ogra> Kamion, installing will be more complicated, but ok...
[06:29] <Kamion> the results I am seeing here are not particularly user-friendly
[06:30] <Kamion> and surely 192.168.0.1 will not be compatible with many deployers' existing network layouts anyway
[06:30] <ogra> Kamion, standalone.... 
[06:30] <Kamion> this is the server install
[06:30] <ogra> Kamion, thats why i made this change in the beginning...
[06:31] <Kamion> so instead of going to the network admin and saying "what address should I enter?", they will see an address pre-filled and say "oh, I guess that's OK" and hit Enter; then they will have to figure out how to undo the damage later
[06:31] <Kamion> surely?
[06:32] <ogra> Kamion, take it out for now, i'll add a section to the installation notes with te default values
[06:32] <lamont> mdz: thanks
[06:33] <Kamion> ogra: done, rebuilding
[06:33] <ogra> Kamion, thanks... 
[06:35] <pitti> dholbach: hey, you packaged libpgtcl? rock
[06:36] <ogra> meh
[06:36] <MasterC> where do I get develpment support?
[06:36] <MasterC> +o
[06:36] <dholbach> pitti: ?
[06:36] <dholbach> pitti: you must have misread :)
[06:36] <ogra> Kamion, the udeb seems not to work :(
[06:37] <pitti> dholbach: oh, indeed -- sorry
[06:38] <Kamion> ogra: can you check whether /cdrom is actually mounted in the chroot?
[06:38] <ogra> it is, checked already
[06:42] <Kamion> hm, it's claiming ltsp-client-builder/run doesn't exist
[06:43] <ogra> strange, its in the templates
[06:43] <Kamion> ogra: oh, I see
[06:43] <ogra> whats wrong ? 
[06:43] <ogra> i dont see it
[06:43] <Kamion> ogra: you have to be careful about trailing whitespace at the ends of lines
[06:43] <ogra> oh no !
[06:44] <Kamion> ogra: you have a line between ltsp-client-builder/run and debian-installer/ltsp-client-builder/title that consists of just a single space
[06:44] <Kamion> I think that causes cdebconf to treat the two as one template
[06:44] <Diziet> Almost as bad as email headers.
[06:44] <ogra> hmm, for me there is no space...
[06:44] <Kamion> ogra: I'll upload the fix if you like
[06:44] <ogra> yup
[06:45] <Kamion> since my editor is clean about that sort of thing
[06:45] <ogra> i cant even se a space here, its a single line, vim beeps even if i try to move anywhere...
[06:46] <Kamion> ogra: try 'a' on that line
[06:46] <Kamion> you'll see the cursor move right one space
[06:46] <ogra> yup
[06:46] <Kamion> now Escape, and try 'a' on the other blank line
[06:46] <ogra> i see
[06:47] <ogra> odd
[06:47] <ivoks> hi
[06:47] <Kamion> ogra: uploaded
[06:48] <ogra> thanks
[06:51] <Kamion> ok, hacked around it for now
[06:51] <Kamion> we should get a PROGRESS INFO in there at some point, otherwise it looks a bit bare, but it'll do for the moment
[06:51] <Kamion> and ultimately there's really no reason we couldn't use debootstrap progress reporting
[06:51] <ogra> yup
[06:52] <ogra> thats what i wanted to do initially...
[06:52] <Kamion> yeah, takes time to get that right though
[06:52] <ogra> yup
[06:52] <Kamion> you'd probably want to depend on base-installer (which you're doing already) and use its templates for that
[06:53] <ogra> i'll look into it... after my nerves are usable again :)
[06:54] <Kamion> whoa, I was sitting on tty3 watching /var/log/messages, and the main d-i screen just flicked over onto it
[06:54] <ogra> oh, that shouldt happen, right ? 
[06:54] <Kamion> something must have managed to signal init from inside two chroots or something
[06:54] <Kamion> or fiddled with udev
[06:55] <ogra> as i said, they chroots are stacked :) 
[06:55] <ogra> the even
[06:55] <\sh> argl.
[06:55] <Kamion> stacking chroots makes little difference to anything
[06:56] <Kamion> you know, I can't help feeling that with so little visible progress, telling users to run a command after the install would actually be friendlier
[06:56] <Kamion> oh, and it breaks because X has to ask a question and you aren't doing the required passthrough magic to make that work
[06:56] <Kamion> so it's now stalled
[06:56] <ogra> :(
[06:57] <Kamion> that will happen on all amd64 and some i386
[06:57] <ogra> x shouldnt ask questions
[06:57] <Kamion> it does if it can't figure out the resolution itself, which happens on all amd64 and some i386
[06:57] <Kamion> you may never have seen it, but it's been that way since warty
[06:57] <ogra> it doesnt even need to be configured :/
[06:57] <Kamion> er, you're installing it
[06:58] <ogra> thats done by the client bootup script on the fly
[06:58] <Kamion> huh?
[06:58] <Kamion> test -z "$EARLY_PACKAGES" && EARLY_PACKAGES="x-window-system-core ltsp-client discover1 laptop-detect mdetect xresprobe"
[06:58] <ogra> yup
[06:58] <Kamion> they are installed by ltsp-build-client
[06:59] <Kamion> that's a very strange set of things to install anyway!
[06:59] <ogra> for the bootup process of the client....
[06:59] <Kamion> discover1 laptop-detect mdetect xresprobe should be installed before x-window-system-core, not alongside it
[06:59] <ogra> Kamion, its mdz's set and it works fine
[06:59] <Kamion> ogra: no, it really doesn't
[06:59] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[06:59] <mdz> hmm?
[07:00] <ogra> mdz, ltsp-build-client
[07:00] <mdz> hmm?
[07:00] <seb128> mdz: so about gnumeric? of for updates?
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: installing x-window-system-core along with all the other stuff that needs to be installed during xserver-xorg's preconfiguration isn't going to work
[07:00] <mdz> seb128: gnumeric should be ok; no reverse deps, right_
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: and installing xserver-xorg in the first stage isn't safe without a lot more code
[07:00] <mdz> Kamion: it does
[07:00] <xTina> Kamion: I think I just ran into a weird problem. Could you think of any reason why a breezy installation would run base-config/late_command twice?!?
[07:00] <pirroH> hello, someone uses apt-listbugs && ubuntu graphical updater?
[07:00] <Kamion> xTina: not now, sorry
[07:01] <ogra> Kamion, it works if you run it manually on the console, it also works if i do it in the installer manually from tty2
[07:01] <seb128> mdz: no, there is libgsf/goffice to update as well, but they are gnumeric part moved to libs and not used by other stuff for the moment (same situation as previous update) and nothing else affected 
[07:02] <Kamion> ogra: we cannot fix this today
[07:02] <mdz> seb128: those are deps, not reverse deps, right_
[07:02] <ogra> Kamion, damned...
[07:02] <seb128> mdz: correct
[07:02] <seb128> mdz: no rdepends
[07:02] <mdz> Kamion: what's the issue
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: xserver-xorg.config tries to use discover for autodetection, so it needs to be installed first for it to work optimally
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: I'm wondering why ltsp-build-client needs to install x-window-system-core at all
[07:02] <mdz> seb128: ok, please watch it carefully and make sure it isn't uninstallable for a significant amount of time
[07:03] <Kamion> mdz: we could avoid a lot of problems if it did not do so
[07:03] <mdz> Kamion: the X server configuration in the chroot is incidental; it isn't used for anything
[07:03] <mdz> Kamion: in fact I think it's rm -f'd later, or if not, it should be
[07:03] <seb128> mdz: sure, thanks
[07:03] <mdz> Kamion: all that matters is that it is noninteractive
[07:03] <mdz> Kamion: the real config is generated at client boot
[07:03] <Kamion> mdz: as it stands, installing x-window-system-core means that we have to go through all the passthrough rigmarole in order to make this work on amd64
[07:03] <\sh> anyone familiar with python-launchpad-integration?
[07:03] <Kamion> mdz: because xserver-xorg always asks a question there
[07:04] <mdz> Kamion: it installs with the noninteractive frontend
[07:04] <mdz> DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
[07:04] <mdz> export DEBIAN_FRONTEND
[07:04] <Kamion> mdz: well it's sitting here hung in xserver-common.config
[07:04] <mdz> Kamion: then something else is wrong; what's it doing?
[07:05] <ogra> mdz, chroot /target /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom >> /var/log/messages
[07:05] <Kamion> it's hung in read(), I can't tell otherwise
[07:05] <mdz> Kamion: read on which fd?
[07:05] <ogra> mdz, before this command the udeb installs ltsp-server
[07:06] <Kamion> process tree is apt-get -y install x-window-system-core ltsp-client discover1 mdetect xresprobe -> dpkg-preconfigure --apt -> xserver-common.config
[07:06] <Kamion> mdz: 0
[07:06] <mdz> Kamion: I agree about the lack of progress
[07:06] <mdz> it should either dump its messages to the console, or be run by hand
[07:06] <ogra> mdz, we can add it until final...
[07:06] <mdz> ogra: add what before final?
[07:07] <ogra> the missing progress stuff in the udeb
[07:07] <mdz> no, we won't
[07:07] <mdz> Kamion: does it work if you give it /dev/null as stdin?
[07:07] <ogra> Kamion, so is there a way to show the console output then ? 
[07:08] <Kamion> ogra: nothing else in d-i does that, I'm not convinced it will work with the terminal in the state it's in once bterm and cdebconf-newt are running on it
[07:08] <mdz> ogra: I said yesterday that using the cdrom is wrong, and it should be using the debs copied by archive-copier; did you fix that?
[07:09] <Kamion> mdz: I'm going to have to reboot to tell
[07:09] <mdz> Kamion: it certainly doesn't read from stdin when I run it
[07:09] <ogra> mdz, how ? should i generate Packages and Release files ? thats not right imho
[07:10] <Kamion> mdz: I'll get a DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer log
[07:10] <mdz> ogra: ejecting the CD and then telling the user to put it back in is unacceptable
[07:10] <ogra> mdz, yes, thus the udeb solution
[07:10] <Kamion> mdz: that was the point of doing this first-stage thing
[07:10] <Kamion> before the CD is ejected
[07:10] <mdz> ergh
[07:11] <mdz> that's suboptimal, but better than what I thought you were doing
[07:11] <Kamion> I think it's the correct approach, long-term anyway
[07:12] <mdz> oh, so this is running under cdebconf-with-debconf-confmodule, not plain debconf
[07:12] <mdz> as in casper
[07:12] <ogra> i think mdz's approach is better, but i have no idea how to solve it without generating the needed archive files
[07:12] <ogra> it'll be much faster to install from HD
[07:12] <mdz> ogra: the same way that "apt-get install ssh" works
[07:12] <mdz> without asking for the CD
[07:12] <Kamion> oh, crap, I bet it needs 'unset DEBIAN_HAS_FRONTEND' and stuff
[07:12] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[07:13] <mdz> it'll be trying to start a new frontend in the chroot
[07:13] <ogra> mdz, but it requires a mirror (and being online), doesnt it ? 
[07:13] <mdz> ogra: install ubuntu and then sudo apt-get install ssh
[07:13] <ogra> mdz, i know what happens... 
[07:13] <mdz> ogra: it installs from the cache.  you have never done this_
[07:13] <Kamion> mdz: other way round, the problem is that it's *failing* to start the noninteractive frontend in the chroot
[07:14] <mdz> ogra: apparently not, if you think it requires being online
[07:14] <Kamion> and is trying to talk to the main frontend, ignoring DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
[07:14] <ogra> mdz, ltsp-build-client runs an apt-get update, doesnt it ? 
[07:14] <mdz> ogra: yes
[07:15] <mdz> so does d-i
[07:16] <ogra> hmm, so i should supress it if in installer mode and copy over the d-i generates sources.list
[07:16] <Kamion> no?
[07:16] <ogra> what else ? 
[07:17] <Kamion> I'm trying the various env -u bits now
[07:17] <Kamion> same as base-config/casper do
[07:19] <mdz> ogra: forgot to baz add ltsp-server-standalone.postinst
[07:19] <mdz> I
[07:19] <mdz> didn't notice you were creating a new file
[07:20] <mdz> ogra: please please please make branches instead of sending patches
[07:20] <ogra> its in now, i hope it doesnt cause confusion in yur tree
[07:20] <\sh> nice...gajim has launchpad integration ,-)
[07:20] <ogra> mdz, i'll do... let me survive this CD first ...
[07:22] <Kamion> ok, that's working
[07:22] <mdz> ogra: I already fixed it in my tree.  I'm talking about in the future.
[07:22] <ogra> mdz, promised
[07:23] <ogra> Kamion, hero !
[07:24] <Kamion> ogra: may I upload this?
[07:24] <Kamion> -chroot /target /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom >> /var/log/messages
[07:24] <Kamion> +env -u DEBIAN_HAS_FRONTEND -u DEBIAN_FRONTEND \
[07:24] <Kamion> +       -u DEBCONF_REDIR -u DEBCONF_OLD_FD_BASE \
[07:24] <Kamion> +       chroot /target /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom \
[07:24] <Kamion> +       >> /var/log/messages 2>&1
[07:24] <ogra> Kamion, what a question, if it works :)
[07:24] <mdz>  /var/log/messages is the wrong place for that output
[07:24] <Kamion> mdz: it's where other similar output in the installer goes.
[07:24] <Kamion> so for consistency's sake, I beg to differ
[07:25] <mdz> oh, that's outside of the chroot
[07:25] <Kamion> yes
[07:25] <mdz> never mind
[07:25] <Kamion> ideally it'd all go to syslog eventually so that we only have one file to inspect when stuff goes wrong, but anyway
[07:25] <Kamion> ok, uploaded, install is at apt configuration
[07:28] <Kamion> second-stage question from dhcp-server
[07:29] <ogra> yup
[07:29] <Kamion> and two largely pointless notes
[07:30] <xTina> Hm. Base-config seems to be run twice. Weird.
[07:30] <bddebian> elmo: ping
[07:34] <linuxsbartley> Breezy loaded.  Boot gets most of the way in and hangs at: Starting periodic command scheduler.....mon...rface daemon...
[07:34] <linuxsbartley> press enter and I get login
[07:34] <linuxsbartley> oops.  meant press alt-f1 and get login
[07:35] <linuxsbartley> alt-f8 shows this message as last entry.
[07:35] <linuxsbartley> only error showing is the t_kernel_font one.
[07:36] <Kamion> xTina: note that late_command is just evaled directly, not (yet) in a subshell or anything
[07:36] <Kamion> xTina: so if you fiddle with the environment, or cd without cding back at the end, or whatever, you'll confuse base-config
[07:36] <Kamion> that was just fixed in Debian today
[07:37] <mdz> Kamion: do server installs install usplash now?
[07:37] <Kamion> mdz: yes, mistakenly
[07:37] <Kamion> mdz: I'll do something about that next week
[07:37] <mdz> Kamion: that's linuxsbartley's problem, I expect
[07:38] <mae> I know this is kind of O/T but do you guys know if that new ipod nano uses flash memory or the micro drives?
[07:38] <xTina> Kamion: Was that different in hoary?
[07:38] <Kamion> xTina: don't believe so, no
[07:38] <xTina> Kamion: Hm. Weird. I believe that if I'm cd'ing I always remember the owd and go back. But I'll check again, just to make sure.
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: I'm running out of time I can dedicate to shepherding Edubuntu builds this evening, because Kirsten is ill and I need to do things around the house for her; can you take over any CD builds that are needed?
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: SMS me when it's ready to publish and I can do that
[07:40] <Kamion> ltsp-client-builder 0.1.0-4 should be OK I think
[07:40] <Kamion> modulo poor progress reporting
[07:41] <seb128> dholbach: ping?
[07:43] <Kamion> OK, successful Edubuntu/amd64 install, but I haven't yet tested its LTSP functioning
[07:43] <dholbach> seb128: pong
[07:43] <Kamion> and for that matter I only have one amd64 box
[07:43] <seb128> dholbach: do you use ldap? :)
[07:43] <dholbach> seb128: i tried to use it, but failed miserably
[07:44] <dholbach> and not just once :)
[07:44] <seb128> dholbach: k, so this gdm bug is not for you neither :p
[07:44] <dholbach> sorry
[07:44] <Kamion> ogra: you need to update the homepage in edubuntu-artwork to talk about 5.10 and Breezy, not 5.04 and Hoary
[07:44] <dholbach> seb128: maybe some of the sun upstream guys know
[07:44] <Kamion> ogra: (both title and header)
[07:44] <ogra> Kamion, yup
[07:44] <seb128> dholbach: I've forwarded it :)
[07:44] <ogra> Kamion, i didnt expect to have the artwork in already...
[07:44] <seb128> dholbach: no pb, don't worry
[07:47] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[07:48] <mdz> ogra: say when
[07:48] <ogra> mdz, ok...
[07:48] <ogra> as soon as the new udeb is there
[07:49] <mdz> mjg59_: as a safeguard, we ought to have something at the end of the boot process which kills usplash
[07:49] <mdz> mjg59_: in the event that the user decides to remove gdm or such (or gets usplash installed unexpectedly, as in current server installs)
[07:50] <mjg59_> mdz: Ok, that's easy enough
[07:51] <Diziet> My new firefox packages have a package mozilla-firefox which exists to cause the installation of firefox during upgrades.  Does anything need to be done to get that .deb included in the main distribution ?
[07:52] <Diziet> (not having to upload giant binaries)++
[08:09] <dholbach> good bye
[08:13] <mdz> jbailey: did "Starting Ubuntu..." go missing in the initrd->initramfs transition?
[08:13] <mdz> jbailey: we ought to say something there, since there is a noticeable delay before usplash starts
[08:13] <mdz> it can be quite long on systems with SCSI especially
[08:14] <sladen> it was originally just an 'echo' statement in the first line of the initrd that said ''starting initrd-tools 1.2.3''
[08:14] <jbailey> mdz: Yes, it's not in there because it wasn't trivially brandable.  Is lsb_release -i branded for kubuntu/edubuntu?
[08:14] <mdz> sladen: until Warty, when it said "Starting Ubuntu..."
[08:15] <mdz> jbailey: something neutral is fine
[08:15] <carstenh> .oO(Starting...)
[08:15] <jbailey> "
[08:15] <mdz> starting up, loading, please wait, etc.
[08:16] <mdz> I'll
[08:16] <sladen> jbailey: could you fish it out from lsb_release when he initramfs is rebuilt---it's being rebuilt for usplash to be installed anyway
[08:16] <ogra> mdz, the udeb is in the archive, you can pull the trigger
[08:16] <mdz> do the same with casper
[08:16] <jbailey> sladen: That's what I wsa thinking.  But if it's not branded there, then there's no point.
[08:17] <jbailey> Also, I think the idea is to get usplash starting very soon there, so it might not matter much at that point.
[08:17] <Keybuk> I'd suggest "Starting, please wait ..." as people might be confused by "Loading"
[08:17] <Keybuk> it's a bit of an 80s term
[08:17] <mdz> ogra: building
[08:17] <ogra> mdz, thanks :)
[08:17] <Keybuk> LOAD ""
[08:17] <mdz> jbailey: it'll matter for breezy
[08:19] <jbailey> mdz: I mean, there's not much point in branding it, if usplash will start soon after.  The usplash graphic should be enough to customise.
[08:20] <mdz> jbailey: agreed
[08:21] <mdz> "Loading, please wait..." seems reasonable.
[08:24] <doko> mdz, elmo: please promote libmythes0 to main, needed for the next OOo2 build
[08:27] <mdz> doko: please only ask one of us, so that we don't both try to do it
[08:27] <mdz> doko: done
[08:30] <tvo> anyone knows how to set up a sid pbuilder chroot in breezy?
[08:30] <doko> mdz: ok, if you have time, the gcc-3.4/gcc-4.0 documentation can be promoted as well, including gnat-4.0, gnat-3.4, libgnat-4.0, libgnat-3.4. can we still target plone in main for breezy?
[08:30] <ogra> tvo, wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[08:31] <tvo> ogra: I followed that and setup a hoary and breezy succesfully, but the sid one fails..
[08:31] <mdz> doko: wait for anastacia to get manageable again (elmo is working on it) before seeding plone, so that we can easily see what it pulls in and verify the  reports
[08:32] <mdz> doko: if the documentation is already seeded, it will be promoted by the normal process
[08:32] <mdz> if it isn't seeded, seed it
[08:32] <doko> it already is.
[08:35] <mdz> hmm, my anastacia cron job is broken
[08:36] <mdz> elmo: IOError: [Errno 2]  No such file or directory: '/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/sync/germinate/output//all_edubuntu_breezy_i386'
[08:37] <elmo> sorry, I ran cron.sync by hand
[08:37] <elmo> I guess it raced with your cron job 
[08:38] <mdz> ah, ok
[08:39] <mdz> I thought it might have been broken since moving to the new box or something
[08:39] <mdz> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[08:41] <spayne> will Mono be updated to 1.1.9
[08:44] <mdz> jbailey: casper uploaded with "Loading, please wait..."
[08:44] <slomo> spayne: not for breezy
[08:44] <spayne> oh bollox
[08:50] <jbailey> mdz: Cool.  Do you want this change uploaded now by itself, or with other changes when the lockdown is over?
[08:50] <mdz> jbailey: it's already over
[08:51] <jbailey> 'k
[08:51] <mdz> Keybuk: is that MOM item in the topic still accurate?
[08:53] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, sadly
[08:53] <Keybuk> once we're down to less than 1-in-10 being fucked, then I'll remove it
[08:54] <Keybuk> that'll probably happen once dapper starts up
[08:54] <Keybuk> though that's going to be slightly painful :-/
[08:55] <mdz> Keybuk: a pity, because it's too long
[09:17] <slomo> elmo: thanks :)
[09:20] <bddebian> slomo: ?
[09:22] <bddebian> slomo: Ahh.. :-)
[09:22] <bddebian> Yeah thanks elmo, you kick arse! 
[09:22] <mdz> Diziet: let's talk about your pending dpkg changes the next time we're both around
[09:22] <mdz> Diziet: or send me email
[09:31] <Kamion> Diziet: To get mozilla-firefox in main, it's enough to add it to the supported seed; see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement
[09:38] <Lathiat> Kamion: is this to make it a virtual package to install firefox?
[09:38] <Kamion> Lathiat: "virtual package" has a specific technical meaning which is different, but I know what you mean, and yes
[09:38] <Kamion> ogra: have you started syncing the new CD build?
[09:38] <Lathiat> Kamion: so while were here, can you explain the different?
[09:38] <Lathiat> *difference
[09:39] <ogra> Kamion, already installing
[09:39] <Kamion> Lathiat: a virtual package is one mentioned in a real package's Provides field
[09:39] <Kamion> (a real package is a .deb)
[09:39] <Lathiat> ah right
[09:39] <Lathiat> whats the name for packages that just install toher thigns etc?
[09:40] <Kamion> Lathiat: there are two more fine-grained distinctions: "mixed virtual", i.e. one that's both mentioned in Provides and is a real package, and "pure virtual", one which is only mentioned in Provides
[09:40] <Kamion> Lathiat: dummy package or transitional package (in the mozilla-firefox case above, where you're transitioning from one name to another name and the packaging system needs a bit of help)
[09:40] <Kamion> Lathiat: or metapackage, if it's something like x-window-system-core or ubuntu-desktop
[09:41] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah ok thanks
[09:59] <ogra> Kamion, i'm in base-config :-D
[10:01] <ivoks> i have one question for wich i need advisory
[10:01] <ivoks> in universe is package ssh-krb5, wich provides ssh-client and ssh-server with kerberos
[10:02] <ivoks> since some packages in main depend on ssh-client or ssh-server, could we repackage ssh-krb5 so it provides those packages, and replaces ssh-client and ssh-server from main?
[10:05] <Kamion> nooooooooo
[10:05] <ivoks> ok
[10:05] <ivoks> hehe
[10:05] <Kamion> please leave that particular situation alone, it's very messy and complicated
[10:05] <ivoks> then you could take ssh-krb5 :)
[10:05] <ivoks> ok
[10:05] <Kamion> I don't use kerberos so I'm not a good maintainer for it
[10:06] <ivoks> all right
[10:06] <Kamion> but the ssh-krb5 maintainer in Debian specifically asked me not to incorporate the kerberos patch into openssh for now, saying it wasn't ready
[10:07] <Kamion> ogra: you forgot to define the log() function, so the workstation install fails
[10:07] <ogra> oh no
[10:08] <Kamion> uploading fix
[10:08] <Kamion> sorry, I should've spotted that one while reviewing
[10:08] <ogra> i shouldnt have forgot it ...
[10:08] <Kamion> 0.1.0-5 fixes
[10:08] <ogra> *forgotten
[10:08] <ogra> otherwise this looks good
[10:10] <ogra> Kamion, cant we just redirect stdout to the frontend to shouw the lines and drop the progress bar ? so you see at least its working...
[10:10] <Kamion> ogra: try it yourself with a test image, but I really have my doubts whether that will work
[10:10] <ogra> Kamion, i'll do
[10:11] <Kamion> if it works, sure; it's horrible, but ...
[10:11] <ogra> why is it horrible ? i mean to have it look the same, just without progressbar
[10:11] <Kamion> you will have to redirect to /dev/tty1 or /dev/vc/1 or whatever, not just let it pass through to stdout
[10:12] <Kamion> oh, er, you mean just pass each one through as a PROGRESS INFO or something?
[10:12] <ogra> yes...
[10:12] <Kamion> er, ok, if you think you can write that code quickly and make it robust
[10:12] <Kamion> many of the lines will be blank, of course
[10:13] <ogra> Kamion, pattern matching... it only needs to match certain expressions (Configuring, Installing etc)
[10:13] <ogra> this would bring more output to the user and i dont thin its to hard to write...
[10:15] <Kamion> it's horrible because we have infrastructure for doing this properly
[10:15] <Kamion> but in any case, whatever you want, as I say you'll have to do it entirely yourself
[10:15] <ogra> yup
[10:15] <Kamion> and remember internationalisation
[10:15] <Kamion> so pattern matching will not be appropriate
[10:17] <Kamion> free hint, the way to display arbitrary text in a progress bar is to use ${LINE} (or similar) in the template you display with PROGRESS INFO and use SUBST to replace it with the current line
[10:19] <ogra> oki
[10:19] <Kamion> ivoks: (though actually, as I've just been reminded, it may be OK to get some Kerberos support into mainline openssh soon. not for breezy, but perhaps breezy+1)
[10:23] <ogra> brb
[10:35] <Mez> whiprush, ping
[10:35] <ivoks> Kamion: ok, but what to tell this guy that wants -krb5, and doesn't want to loose half on other apps? :)
[10:40] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, ping
[10:42] <ivoks> bye all
[10:43] <pef> bye !
[10:43] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, /etc/X11/Xsession is not executable :(
[10:44] <eruin> why aren't there templates for, say, synaptic in rosetta?
[10:44] <mdke> eruin, #launchpad is the channel
[10:44] <eruin> woops, sry
[10:45] <mdke> np
[10:46] <mirak_> hi
[10:46] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, can you revert that to x-session-manager ?
[10:46] <mirak_> when I download kernel source 2.6.12, how can I make the source evolve to 2.6.12-8 level ? so it's like the headers ?
[10:48] <lu|away> j^: trying to debug a n-m problem- any idea how I can tell what dns servers bind is checking against?
[10:49] <eruin> mirak_, check your pm ;-)
[10:50] <mirak_> you can talk here
[10:50] <ogra_ltsp> Kamion, if you didnt trigger the cdbuild fro the log() change yet, dont do it, ltsp doent work currently
[10:50] <mirak_> how to apply the patches to the kernel ?
[10:50] <mdke> mirak_, not really, it is a question for #ubuntu
[10:50] <mirak_> mdke: but I think the answer belongs here ^^
[10:50] <mirak_> or would come from here
[10:51] <mirak_> i asked on #ubuntu first
[10:51] <mirak_> but there is only incompetent people
[10:51] <mirak_> like me ;)
[10:56] <eruin> anyone know tollef fog heens nick or where to catch him on irc?
[10:57] <slomo> eruin: Mithrandir 
[10:58] <eruin> cheers
[11:07] <torkel> jdub: probably. With HP in the loop, clusterfs is probably more intrested in supporting Ubuntu
[11:08] <torkel> jdub: we have also been poking them few times :-)
[11:09] <mdz> ogra: it certainly is executable here
[11:09] <mdz> ogra: if it isn't, it's a bug
[11:10] <ogra> it isnt in my new install
[11:10] <ogra> dmaned
[11:10] <ogra> damned even
[11:10] <mdz> ogra: confirmed in my new install too
[11:11] <mdz> ogra: needs to be fixed in xinit
[11:11] <mdz> ogra: needs special treatment for upgrades as well, since it's a conffile
[11:12] <ogra> *  Install xinitrc from old xbase-clients also (closes: Ubuntu#13331).
[11:12] <ogra> that might be it
[11:12] <mdz> I don't think so
[11:13] <mdz> I think that it was probably forgotten when the package was split
[11:13] <mdz> xinitrc and Xsession are different
[11:15] <ogra> phew, xserverrc isnt executable either
[11:20] <mirak_> what compiler is used to compile breezy ?
[11:20] <mirak_> breezy kernels
[11:20] <Nafallo> 3.4
[11:20] <mirak_> k
[11:23] <Mez> mdz: little bit of news for you... novell want to "officially" support iFolder on ubuntu
[11:24] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS! (SPECIAL SFD EDITION!)
[11:26] <tseng> jdub: hi
[11:26] <Nafallo> jdub: morning :-)
[11:26] <tseng> jdub: im not feling the love
[11:27] <tseng> Mez: um
[11:27] <tseng> Mez: hth would that work?
[11:27] <Mez> tseng: how do you mean?
[11:27] <tseng> ouch!
[11:27] <tseng> Mez: well we cant distribute it, as we've learned
[11:27] <tseng> Mez: and we cant sanely package it
[11:27] <Mez> we cant distribute, but it'll be from thair apt repos
[11:28] <tseng> er, I guess
[11:28] <tseng> works for me, then
[11:28] <Mez> and we can sanely package it, they took my bug reports and fixed most of it
[11:28] <Mez> it's semi-sane now
[11:28] <tseng> ah great
[11:28] <Mez> and they've asked me to maintain
[11:28] <tseng> good work then.
[11:28] <jdub> slomo, tseng: yay banshee!
[11:28] <tseng> jdub: yay!
[11:29] <slomo> jdub: :)
[11:29] <slomo> jdub: works for you?
[11:29] <jdub> slomo: installing now
[11:29] <slomo> jdub: ubuntu2?
[11:30] <jdub> slomo: has it built yet?
[11:30] <jdub> ooh, yes :)
[11:30] <Mez> tseng: forwarded you email regarding crappy stuff they fixed
[11:30] <slomo> jdub: sure... is already in the archives... but it just adds a depend on libsqlite3-0 which was missing before
[11:34] <ogra> mdz, hmm, daniels just installs it in the xinit.install file... if its upgrade critical, shouldnt it be in postinst with a check ?
[11:35] <mdz> ogra: config files are installed with mode 644 by default
[11:35] <mdz> ogra: Xsession is special because it is a script
[11:36] <mdz> ogra: you need to override the permissions in the .deb for new installs, and add an upgrade test with chmod in postinst to fix it for upgrades
[11:36] <ogra> ah, ok... 
[11:37] <mdz> Mez: interesting; is there a press release or other url about it?
[11:37] <tseng> Mez: my mail server is dead :(
[11:37] <mdz> ogra: if you need help with it, ask jbailey or wait for daniels
[11:37] <tseng> Mez: but ill get it eventually. thanks.
[11:37] <ogra> mdz, ok
[11:38] <Mez> mdz: not at the moment, it's all in private emails between me and the lead... though they're actually developing on breezy, which is good :D
[11:38] <mdz> Mez: very cool
[11:39] <tseng> Mez: thats awesome
[11:39] <Mez> mdz/tseng: http://forge.novell.com/pipermail/ifolder-dev/2005-September/001021.html
[11:40] <Mez> they mention developing on breezy there
[11:40] <tseng> Mez: its cool to see that we are now a top mono distro
[11:40] <Mez> tseng: and it's all your fault
[11:41] <tseng> Mez: novell makes a tough contest.
[11:41] <Mez> how do you mean?
[11:41] <tseng> the upstream and the packager share an office :P
[11:42] <Mez> ??
[11:42] <tseng> elite, kernel panic on my laptop testing box
[11:42] <tseng> Mez: ok.. novell distributes suse, they employee most mono devs..
[11:42] <tseng> Mez: connection? yes.
[11:42] <Mez> ah
[11:42] <Mez> ok
[11:42] <Mez> :P
[11:42] <Mez> now I get you
[11:42] <tseng> cheers
[11:43] <torkel> Mez: are there .debs of ifolder available anywhere?
[11:43] <Mez> torkel, not atm
[11:43] <Mez> but, spayne has made nice howtos on how to build it
[11:44] <torkel> k
[11:44] <Mez> torkel, lemme find the link
[11:44] <Mez> torkel, Client: http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/blog/?p=164
[11:44] <Mez> Server: http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/blog/?p=165
[11:44] <spayne> http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/blog/?p=164
[11:45] <spayne> oh well :-)
[11:45] <torkel> Mez: thanks
[11:45] <Mez> spayne, too slow
[11:53] <Riddell> Mithrandir: looks like the Qt Eastern European issue is down to Qt being not as intelligent as I had 
[11:53] <Riddell> assumed
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> mdz, can we put a limit on the size of the apt cache, is there a timeout after which stuff automatically gets cleaned?
[11:54] <Kamion> somebody said something to me after I last spoke, but I didn't see it due to a power cut
[11:55] <ogra> Kamion, was me i guess
[11:55] <Kamion> (I only saw the red indicator on the disconnected ssh session on my laptop)
[11:55] <Kamion> anyway, post-power-cuts I'm off to bed, so others will have to take care of any CD builds you need
[11:55] <ogra> Kamion, i wanted to stop you starting the cdbuild for the log() patch since i have another bug
[11:55] <ogra> Kamion, thats ok, i'll only need one last one, i guess mdz can do this...
[11:56] <ogra> Kamion, thank you very bery much for all the help, i wouldnt gotten here without you
[11:56] <ogra> *have gotten
[11:58] <Kamion> mdz: in case you want to release the Edubuntu preview without me, you want 'for-project edubuntu publish-release daily 20050909.4 install yes preview' (or whatever the datestamp will be), check over cdimage/www/simple/edubuntu/, 'sync-mirrors' when happy
[11:58] <Kamion> ogra: that's ok
[11:59] <Kamion> mdz: I've set up the bits of the directory structure that still need to be done by hand (fortunately, not a lot)