[12:04] <mpt> http://www.apple.com/macosx/ <-- excellent writing
[12:04] <mpt> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/topten.mspx <-- good writing
[12:05] <Burgundavia> how does mine compare with those efforts?
[12:05] <mpt> a little behind the Windows one
[12:05] <mpt> but it's easily improvable
[12:08] <mpt> Ok, you have "Built on the power of GNOME"
[12:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:08] <mpt> That isn't "Built On the Power of GNOME", because that would look silly, right? :-)
[12:08] <mpt> So the other headings should be consistent
[12:08] <Burgundavia> ya
[12:08] <Burgundavia> will do
[12:09] <mpt> Find out the number of applications available in gnome-app-install that aren't installed by default, and mention that in the "Easy Software Installation" section
[12:09] <Burgundavia> a huge number, thousands
[12:10] <Burgundavia> but in g-a-i, several hundred
[12:10] <Burgundavia> "Browse through and install from the hundreds of programs in the Ubuntu software catalogue, for no cost."
[12:12] <mpt> the sentence "And it's all absolutely free." should be in there somewhere, perhaps :-)
[12:12] <mpt> "no cost" is a bit of a negative way of putting it
[12:12] <Burgundavia> "Add a new game, text editor or program with a single click. Browse through and install from the hundreds of programs in the Ubuntu software catalogue. And it's all absolutely free."
[12:12] <mpt> much better
[12:13] <mpt> Not all of the sections need screenshots
[12:13] <mpt> For example, Gaim isn't the prettiest app in the world
[12:13] <Burgundavia> no
[12:13] <mpt> So instead you might have its icon, hugging the icons for AIM, YM, ICQ, MSN, and the others in some way
[12:13] <Burgundavia> what else should I put in it's place?
[12:14] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:14] <Burgundavia> might those logos present a copyright issue?
[12:14] <Burgundavia> also, I cannot draw
[12:14] <mpt> hum, trademark, perhaps
[12:15] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:15] <mpt> "View documents with Evince" is very uninteresting, unless you can come up with some stats for how much faster it is than Adobe Reader
[12:15] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:16] <Burgundavia> "View documents in a snap with Evince"
[12:16] <mpt> or "PDFs just got faster"
[12:17] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:17] <Burgundavia> evince only appears once, in the about box
[12:18] <Burgundavia> it is a true non-app-app. It doesn't even have a preferences dialog
[12:18] <mpt> What's the deadline for this document?
[12:18] <mpt> Do PostScript files open in Evince too? (I don't have Breezy here at work)
[12:20] <Burgundavia> mpt, sort of today-ish, but I am going to push our string freeze
[12:20] <Burgundavia> and yes, PS's do as wel
[12:21] <Burgundavia> what about "Viewing PDF's just got faster"
[12:21] <mpt> It's a shame that only OO.o prints to PDFs, everything else to PS
[12:21] <Burgundavia> cups-pdf should probably be installed by default
[12:22] <mpt> Now that I've gone through the whole thing, you probably want separate pages for each of the major sections
[12:22] <Burgundavia> mpt, shall we raise that at UBZ (assuming I am there)?
[12:23] <mpt> I'm not sure what I could contribute to that, except to say "yes, it should be"
[12:23] <Burgundavia> that is sometimes all that is needed
[12:38] <Burgundavia> mpt, I have to run. If you have any other changes, simply PM me
[12:39] <mpt> ok
[12:39] <Burgundavia> bloody work
[12:52] <rob^> hmm, the faq guide is looking pretty good in yelp now :)
[12:52] <rob^> and omg it doesn't crash!
[12:55] <jbailey> =)
[12:56] <rob^> yay I am so tired now!
[01:02] <jbailey> rob^: That's with the css update?
[01:20] <rob^> jbailey, yes
[01:21] <rob^> 4171
[01:29] <jbailey> 4171?
[02:13] <robotgeek> hi all
[02:16] <robotgeek> can i add breezy stuff to the wiki? that's the only OS I am running
[02:44] <robotgeek> hi, can i try writing some documentation for multisync?
[02:44] <jsgotangco> hey
[02:44] <jsgotangco> there is none?
[02:45] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: hi
[02:45] <jsgotangco> hi
[02:47] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, feel free to do so if there is none at the moment
[02:49] <robotgeek> i looked at the docteam projects, i did not see any.
[02:49] <robotgeek> neither on the wiki
[02:56] <jsgotangco> because its application-specific
[02:56] <jsgotangco> upstream may have documentation for that
[03:13] <jsgotangco> mdke, ping?
[03:36] <robotgeek> cool, i guess i will look it up there then. if not i'll write it up and then contact you guys. 
[03:36] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, sure, its best to contribute to multisync itself as well
[03:37] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: as in?
[03:37] <robotgeek> contribute to multisync documentation directly?
[03:37] <jsgotangco> yes why not?
[03:37] <jsgotangco> all distributions will benefit from it for sure
[03:37] <jsgotangco> not just ubuntu
[03:38] <robotgeek> sure, hadn't thought abt it, it definetly needs some amt of documenting!
[03:39] <robotgeek> cool, will do that, and probably keep the ubuntu specific things for ubuntu
[03:39] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:39] <jsgotangco> i was the one who was supposed to do testing in multisync but i just have too many things in my hands atm
[03:39] <jsgotangco> i did the pda spec
[03:39] <robotgeek> oh, it has a spec too?
[03:39] <jsgotangco> let me find that
[03:40] <jsgotangco> it should be revived for Breezy +1
[03:40] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PDASupport
[03:40] <robotgeek> no harm in getting it ready
[03:41] <jsgotangco> how mature is multisync to be promotedto main?
[03:42] <robotgeek> hmmm..
[03:43] <robotgeek> except for lack of documentation, everything else worked out of the box
[03:43] <jsgotangco> what device areyou using
[03:43] <jsgotangco> sycn to evo2?
[03:43] <robotgeek> i am using a sony ericsson t 637
[03:43] <robotgeek> yeah, sync to evo2
[03:43] <jsgotangco> hmmm i'll probably revive this for next release then
[03:44] <jsgotangco> if it works out of the box, that's a good sign
[03:44] <robotgeek> just lack of documentation left me searching left and right
[03:46] <robotgeek> but once i figured out what to do, it works fine
[03:47] <robotgeek> anyways, i'll be here after an hour or so, need to cook :)
[03:58] <jsgotangco> hmmm for some reason make faqi386 takes forever
[06:13] <robotgeek> hi, is there a single package i can install for the doc tools?
[06:13] <robotgeek> er, docbook-tools
[06:20] <jsgotangco> brb
[07:57] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: ping
[07:58] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, pong
[07:59] <robotgeek> hi all
[07:59] <Madpilot> hi robotgeek
[08:00] <robotgeek> working on a wiki article, i dunno if i am stepping on any toes!
[08:00] <Madpilot> the wiki is pretty much open territory, AFAIK
[08:00] <Madpilot> what're you working on?
[08:01] <robotgeek> an article on MultiSync howto
[08:01] <Madpilot> what's multisync?
[08:01] <robotgeek> still working on it, far from complete
[08:01] <robotgeek> multisync is a program to sync phones
[08:01] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultisyncHowto
[08:01] <robotgeek> how do i add screenshots?
[08:01] <Madpilot> cool. my cel phone is very old tech, no PC connection at all!
[08:02] <Madpilot> screenshots - just a sec, I'll have a look thru the help stuff for you. 
[08:02] <robotgeek> mine uses bluetooth
[08:03] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnLinking <-- images are in the first part of this page
[08:03] <robotgeek> i even went thru this link. the only problem with a wiki is that sometimes, i overlook stuff!
[08:04] <Madpilot> the editing help sections really aren't well laid out...
[08:04] <robotgeek> and i just link to someplace else? no upload and stuff?
[08:04] <Madpilot> no, you upload and then link it to the page you want it to appear on
[08:05] <robotgeek> okay, so someplace like imageshack is fine?
[08:05] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, no, you upload to the wiki
[08:05] <Madpilot> the ubuntu wiki can host it's own pictures
[08:05] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia - missed your pong at the top there
[08:06] <robotgeek> where's the upload button?
[08:06] <robotgeek> :)
[08:06] <Madpilot> see the dropdown menu near the top of the page?
[08:07] <Madpilot> one of those is "Attachments" which is actually the upload function...
[08:07] <robotgeek> okay, got it..it's hidden away :)
[08:07] <Madpilot> yeah
[08:07] <robotgeek> thanks!
[08:07] <Madpilot> I was beating my head against that too...
[08:37] <BeerDump> hmmm
[08:37] <Burgundavia> beerdump?
[08:38] <Madpilot> jgotangco: just back from the pub? ;)
[08:38] <jgotangco> heh
[08:38] <jgotangco> we're now frozen =)
[08:38] <jgotangco> with the exception of Quick Tour
[08:38] <Madpilot> cool
[08:39] <Madpilot> now we can start arguing about breezy+1 docs! ;)
[08:39] <jgotangco> no
[08:39] <jgotangco> we argue first about translation and the CSS
[08:39] <Madpilot> ah, OK.
[08:39] <Madpilot> so the CSS doesn't count as part of the frozen docs?
[08:39] <jgotangco> we're only on string freeze
[08:39] <jgotangco> yes
[08:39] <jgotangco> because we have to give way for translators
[08:40] <Madpilot> that's seperation of presentation & content at work
[08:40] <jgotangco> yes
[08:40] <jgotangco> its all good
[08:41] <Madpilot> so is the plan to thrash QuickTour, AboutUbuntu and the FAQ into one coherent visual whole before Breezy release?
[08:41] <jgotangco> should be
[08:41] <Burgundavia> sabdfl was asking about using some of the ubuntu css
[08:41] <jgotangco> we still have a month
[08:41] <jgotangco> sure
[08:42] <jgotangco> the hacked plone css?
[08:42] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: the ubuntu.com site css?
[08:42] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, yes
[08:50] <Madpilot> OK, that's both amusing and not good....
[08:51] <Madpilot> www.ubuntu.com fails W3C Validator checks...
[08:52] <Madpilot> repeated abuse of a poor "id" tag, and some HTML->XHTML errors...
[08:54] <Madpilot> and about a dozen CSS files, including one Opera-specific one (for presentation, which only Opera does so far...)
[09:01] <jsgotangco> oh! we have a meeting later!
[09:01] <Madpilot> when is later?
[09:02] <Madpilot> nevermind, just found the Calendar wiki page again
[09:03] <Madpilot> 1400Z is 0700 local, so I'm unlikely to be present... not a morning person
[09:03] <jsgotangco> hmm im beginning to like this css thing
[09:03] <Madpilot> CSS is cool - what're you working on?
[09:04] <robotgeek> question: how comprehensive should an article on the wiki be? what can i assume?
[09:05] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultisyncHowto
[09:05] <jsgotangco> im found it
[09:05] <jsgotangco> im looking at it atm
[09:05] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, just playing aroud with the css in svn
[09:05] <Madpilot> robotgeek: your screenshots should probably use the default Ubuntu themes
[09:06] <robotgeek> hmm, had forgotten about that...i use openbox
[09:07] <Madpilot> robotgeek: can you reboot into Gnome just for the screenshots?
[09:07] <robotgeek> can do
[09:07] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:07] <jsgotangco> use Human
[09:08] <robotgeek> okay, but mainly...is it fair to assume that bluetooth works, or should i write up a wiki on that too. most of my knowledge on that comes from the forums thread
[09:12] <Madpilot> there don't seem to be any Bluetooth howtos on the wiki yet, robotgeek
[09:15] <robotgeek> there aren't any, so i might as well right one up
[09:17] <robotgeek> i am just going to include what i did to get it working, some one else can add some more info later
[09:17] <mdke> morning
[09:17] <Madpilot> hi mdke
[09:17] <mdke> how are things?
[09:17] <Madpilot> robotgeek: cool, whatever you start is more Bluetooth info than the wiki has now, anyway!
[09:18] <robotgeek> :)
[09:18] <robotgeek> back to work on it again, i guess
[09:18] <robotgeek> gonna read a little slashdot on the way!
[09:21] <jsgotangco> hey mdke 
[09:21] <jsgotangco> mdke, i made one itsy bitsy edit after your pot but i generated it again
[09:22] <jsgotangco> so we're now completely frozen
[09:22] <mdke> ok
[09:22] <mdke> the pots were just testing anyhow
[09:22] <mdke> which pot did you regenerate?
[09:22] <jsgotangco> about-ubuntu
[09:22] <mdke> ok
[09:22] <jsgotangco> are we going to feed the pots to rosetta?
[09:23] <mdke> later today I hope
[09:23] <jsgotangco> did you get your dsl already?
[09:23] <mdke> yeah it came early
[09:24] <jsgotangco> nice
[09:24] <jsgotangco> we can now worry about the css
[09:24] <mdke> do we have a list of the packages we need to put in rosetta?
[09:24] <jsgotangco> jbailey packaged not i
[09:25] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:25] <mdke> sorry
[09:25] <Burgundavia> well printing the quicktour sort of worked
[09:25] <mdke> s/packages/documents
[09:25] <Burgundavia> the background colour died, and images look like shit
[09:26] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: background colour usually isn't printed w/ HTML
[09:26] <jsgotangco> for some reason, the makefile for about-ubuntu doesn't get the image at all
[09:26] <Burgundavia> the images also get divided between pages
[09:27] <Burgundavia> but the coloured header css came through
[09:27] <jsgotangco> hi enrico
[09:27] <mdke> heh
[09:28] <mdke> mdz has done a lot of work on that announcement, we can use it for releasenotes
[09:28] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:28] <mdke> Burgundavia, maybe you can use it for the quicktour too?
[09:28] <robitaille> the announcement seems a lot more technical than the quicktour
[09:28] <mdke> yeah
[09:29] <robitaille> but I think they wanted it technical
[09:29] <Burgundavia> the release notes for the preview are aimed at a more techinical audience
[09:29] <Burgundavia> I expect the actual release to be slightly less technical
[09:29] <Burgundavia> mdke, work on waht?
[09:29] <jsgotangco> i'll add mdz's notes on the releasenotes wiki jbailey did
[09:29] <mdke> good idea
[09:30] <Burgundavia> mdke, incorporating the stuff from the release notes into the quicktour? I already parsed through it to see if there was anything we needed to
[09:30] <Burgundavia> add
[09:30] <mdke> Burgundavia, i meant from mdz's preview announcement, but as robitaille says, it might be a bit technical
[09:30] <mdke> sounds like jjesse wants to change kquickguide
[09:30] <jsgotangco> another purpose of relesae notes is to add known bugs
[09:31] <jsgotangco> mdke, i talked to Riddell about it, he's ok with it
[09:31] <jsgotangco> kubuntu rarely gets translated he says
[09:32] <mdke> i think that translators will appear
[09:32] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[09:32] <jsgotangco> i feel so bad about leaving the kubuntu quick guide
[09:33] <jsgotangco> can't blame sean either if he didn't feel like finishing kde docs
[09:33] <mdke> nope
[09:33] <mdke> although he kinda slid out without saying anything
[09:34] <jsgotangco> hmmm riddell didn't say anything about adept
[09:34] <Burgundavia> you really need someone who has used the latest kde to develop a marketing guide forf it
[09:34] <mdke> isn't it worth freezing the kquickguide?
[09:34] <mdke> i know the thing that needs updating is quite important, but still, it might be better than nothing?
[09:34] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:34] <Burgundavia> mdke, is there anything worth freezing?
[09:35] <jsgotangco> about kubuntu is usable
[09:36] <jsgotangco> edubuntu has no freeze
[09:36] <mdke> Burgundavia, sure, about-ubuntu, faqguide
[09:36] <mdke> how is the quicktour getting on?
[09:36] <Burgundavia> mdke, I was talking about the kquicktour
[09:36] <mdke> ah
[09:36] <mdke> apparently the doc is finished except for the package manager
[09:37] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, are you going to wait for artwork freeze to get screenshots?
[09:37] <Burgundavia> mdke, coming. Is there any way trigger an update on the preview?
[09:37] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:37] <jsgotangco> ickkk
[09:37] <jsgotangco> whyyy?
[09:37] <mdke> Burgundavia, yes we can upload a new pot to rosetta
[09:37] <jsgotangco> we're still using chocolate
[09:37] <jsgotangco> err human
[09:37] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, are we changing icon theme? What about wallpaper?
[09:38] <mdke> i hope there will be new wallpaper
[09:38] <jsgotangco> you can ask volvoguy and AndyFitz
[09:38] <Burgundavia> mdke, no, http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/quicktour/quicktour.html this page. Can i trigger a rebuild of it>
[09:38] <jsgotangco> they're supposed to be responsible for that
[09:38] <mdke> Burgundavia, i'll do it now
[09:38] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, jdub said they were thinking about it
[09:38] <jsgotangco> ok
[09:38] <jsgotangco> oh well rather
[09:39] <enrico> jsgotangco: hi!
[09:39] <mdke> ciao enrico 
[09:39] <Burgundavia> they had not yet decided if they were going to switch to humilty icons (which I personally hate)
[09:39] <enrico> hi all!
[09:39] <Burgundavia> salut enrico 
[09:41] <jsgotangco> how do you incorporate the pot?
[09:41] <jsgotangco> transform it?
[09:41] <mdke> what do you mean incorporate?
[09:42] <jsgotangco> wrong word
[09:42] <jsgotangco> how do make the pot file an xml again
[09:42] <mdke> same command
[09:42] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[09:42] <mdke> --help
[09:42] <jsgotangco> all those translated files need an omf for sure
[09:44] <Burgundavia> mdke, can you trigger that rebuild again, I forgot to commit the changes
[09:44] <mdke> we'll need to make separate packages
[09:44] <mdke> Burgundavia, sure
[09:44] <mdke> what's the latest revision?
[09:45] <mdke> 1752?
[09:45] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:45] <mdke> ok building
[09:47] <mdke> where does ubuntu-docs install our documents?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> ugh, xscreensaver is butt ugly
[09:47] <mdke> matt@kallisto:/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> mdke, you apply for sponsorship to UBZ?
[09:48] <jsgotangco> im not in breezy
[09:49] <mdke> Burgundavia, no
[09:49] <mdke> is jbailey around?
[09:49] <Burgundavia> mdke, why not?
[09:50] <mdke> Burgundavia, i won't be able to get off work
[09:50] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:50] <ajmitch> that's a shame
[09:50] <mdke> sadly
[09:50] <Burgundavia> that sucks
[09:50] <mdke> i'm only starting the job next week ;)
[09:50] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:51] <mdke> Burgundavia, i imagine you will stick up for us?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> I only just started the job, but I made my leave at the end of Oct. a condition of the job
[09:51] <mdke> heh
[09:51] <Burgundavia> mdke, I hope I get sponsorship
[09:51] <mdke> Burgundavia, i'm sure you will
[09:51] <mdke> so our packaged docs seem to go here: 
[09:51] <mdke> so our packaged docs seem to go here:  [08:50:51]   * ajmitch thinks the doc team needs a good representation at UBZ :)
[09:51] <mdke> sorry
[09:51] <mdke>  [08:51:02]  < mdke> Burgundavia, i imagine you will stick up for us?
[09:51] <mdke> argh
[09:51] <mdke> bad paste
[09:51] <ajmitch> and I've already booked time off for LCA in january :)
[09:52] <mdke> so our packaged docs seem to go here: /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C
[09:52] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:52] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: I have to book in well ahead
[09:52] <mdke> isn't it a bit odd to have both en and C which specify language?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> wow, the bloody touchpad works again
[09:52] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: daniels reverted the driver
[09:52] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, ya, saw the change
[09:52] <jsgotangco> mdke, i don't think it helps at all with html, only xml docs
[09:53] <jsgotangco> but our make does output with C so
[09:53] <mdke> jsgotangco, yeah, C is fine, but why both?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> hmm, nothing installed by default
[09:53] <mdke> seems an unnecessary way to lengthen the address
[09:53] <Burgundavia> the faqguide didn't make preivew?
[09:53] <mdke> Burgundavia, it's there
[09:53] <mdke> just not in yelp
[09:53] <mdke> matt@kallisto:/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en$ ls
[09:53] <mdke> about-ubuntu  faqamd64  faqppc  quicktour
[09:53] <mdke> default.css   faqi386   images  release-notes
[09:54] <jsgotangco> mdke, we can edit the script
[09:54] <jsgotangco> (but the script editors are always out)
[09:54] <mdke> jsgotangco, well we need to sort it out quick because the firefox home page will be based on that address
[09:54] <jsgotangco> mmmmm
[09:54] <jsgotangco> good point
[09:54] <mdke> what time zone is jbailey in?
[09:54] <jsgotangco> -4
[09:54] <Burgundavia> mdke, I just installed preview and /usr/share/doc has no ubuntu-doc in it
[09:54] <mdke> Burgundavia, ah i have it on my breezy here
[09:55] <Burgundavia> mdke, fresh install?
[09:55] <mdke> Burgundavia, yes, from colony 2
[09:55] <mdke> ubuntu-docs with an "s"?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> just testing hibernate, just a sec
[09:56] <ajmitch> fyi I have /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs
[09:57] <robitaille> I don't have /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc nor /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs either on my fresh install of preview
[09:57] <mdke> hmm
[09:57] <Burgundavia> colony 4 was intalled the quickguide
[09:57] <Burgundavia> I think they yanked that but forgot to readd our doc
[09:57] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, that was a bug
[09:57] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:57] <ajmitch> I don't see any package depending on the quick guide
[09:57] <jsgotangco> it made the cd installable
[09:57] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, it was fixed
[09:58] <mdke> yah it's fixed
[09:58] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: ok..
[09:58] <ajmitch> I'll do a preview install later tonight
[09:58] <jsgotangco> quickguide back then was a dependency of ubuntu-desktop
[09:58] <Burgundavia> holy shit a lot of people are subbed to the LaptopTestingTeam page
[09:59] <mdke> Burgundavia, i've rebuilt the preview docs
[09:59] <jsgotangco> yes
[09:59] <jsgotangco> i did .*
[09:59] <Burgundavia> mdke, hmm
[09:59] <mdke> did it work?
[09:59] <Burgundavia> ok, this is cool --> http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/simple-things-2005-09-09-08-45
[10:00] <Burgundavia> do we have a meeting this morning?
[10:00] <mdke> later
[10:00] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:00] <Burgundavia> arghh..
[10:00] <mdke> i can't make it though
[10:00] <Burgundavia> alright then, I need to crash
[10:00] <ajmitch> night Burgundavia 
[10:00] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: another 0700-our-time-zone one :)
[10:01] <mdke> Burgundavia, did the rebuild work?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> mdke, didn't seem to
[10:01] <jsgotangco> are you rebuilding on doc.ubuntu.com?
[10:01] <mdke> yes
[10:02] <mdke> something wrong with the Makefile maybe
[10:02] <mdke> maybe jeffsch can sort it out
[10:05] <jsgotangco> mdke, are we feeding to rosetta?
[10:05] <mdke> when we have a complete list of documents that need to go, I'll build pots for them and upload
[10:06] <jsgotangco> ok
[10:06] <jsgotangco> so the plan is that
[10:06] <mdke> or rather, give them to jordi to upload
[10:06] <jsgotangco> we'll have translators do it with rosetta?
[10:06] <mdke> yeah
[10:06] <mdke> are there any disadvantages of that?
[10:07] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+translations
[10:07] <jsgotangco> no
[10:07] <jsgotangco> let's have it available on that link
[10:07] <mdke> we can't choose where to have it available
[10:07] <mdke> but it will be there
[10:08] <mdke> it will be here:
[10:08] <mdke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs
[10:08] <mdke> (i think)
[10:08] <jsgotangco> not bad
[10:10] <mdke> it will be the same as with hoary
[10:10] <jsgotangco> ok so that means we'll be able to clean up our svn later
[10:10] <mdke> if you make sure that you get a list of frozen documents at the meeting, I'll do it tonight when i get home
[10:10] <jsgotangco> sure
[10:10] <jsgotangco> let me build all docs now
[10:11] <mdke> use the preview server!
[10:11] <jsgotangco> no!
[10:11] <mdke> it's working, just not the quicktour
[10:11] <mdke> why?!
[10:11] <jsgotangco> i like my builds
[10:11] <mdke> ok
[10:11] <jsgotangco> they're the same right?
[10:11] <mdke> yes
[10:11] <jsgotangco> i changed the css for about ubuntu
[10:11] <mdke> :)
[10:12] <jsgotangco> can you give me access soon?
[10:12] <jsgotangco> i want to change that frontpage
[10:12] <mdke> i can give you access now
[10:12] <jsgotangco> i can't change it now
[10:12] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:12] <mdke> the server area is owned by the user "ubuntu-docs" so I'll just give you the password for that user and you can log in and change it directly
[10:12] <jsgotangco> something is wrong with that makefile
[10:13] <jsgotangco> it didn't pull th elogo
[10:13] <mdke> alternatively, change the frontpage and send it to me and I'll upload
[10:13] <jsgotangco> okay
[10:14] <mdke> PM
[10:18] <Madpilot> good night all, need to crash. I'll try and make the meeting at 1400Z, but no promises
[10:18] <jsgotangco> okay
[10:18] <jsgotangco> if you're not there, we'll make sure your vote doesn't count
[10:18] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:18] <jsgotangco> joke
[10:19] <Madpilot> 1400Z = 0700PDT, it's currently 0120PDT
[10:19] <jsgotangco> bahh
[10:19] <mdke> night Madpilot 
[10:19] <Madpilot> anyway, see you all later
[10:19] <jsgotangco> i slept at 2:30am and woke up at 7
[10:20] <mdke> rebooting
[10:23] <jsgotangco> mdke, how updated is the doc.ubuntu.com builds?
[10:24] <mdke> i did gnome/ ten minutes ago
[10:24] <mdke> if you want to do them again
[10:24] <mdke> as ubuntu-docs, go to ~
[10:24] <jsgotangco> ahh so its manually triggered?
[10:24] <mdke> then run ./svn_up
[10:24] <mdke> and ./copy_blah
[10:24] <mdke> nope it is run every day automatically
[10:25] <mdke> but corey asked me to do it again now so I did
[10:25] <jsgotangco> ahhh the kde docs are already local now
[10:25] <jsgotangco> before they pointed to sean
[10:25] <mdke> yeah it's all there
[10:26] <mdke> although if you go to doc.ubuntu.com/kde, you get an annoying page which points you to sean's server
[10:27] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:27] <jsgotangco> where the heck are our docs
[10:27] <jsgotangco> in breezy
[10:28] <jsgotangco> it seems not installed in preview
[10:28] <mdke> jeez you're like an echo
[10:28] <jsgotangco> it was somewhere before
[10:28] <mdke> it's fixed now though
[10:28] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[10:28] <mdke> i bugged Kamion and he added it to a seed
[10:28] <jsgotangco> oh
[10:28] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:28] <jsgotangco> i remember
[10:29] <jsgotangco> he demoted it to universe because of the breakage
[10:29] <jsgotangco> that package badly needs updating on the info
[10:29] <mdke> by the way
[10:30] <mdke> another thing you _must_ remember to do at the meeting
[10:30] <jsgotangco> mm?
[10:30] <mdke> is to ask jbailey about the weird address for the docs
[10:30] <jsgotangco> the /usr/share/doc/bla/blah/blah/C/index.html?
[10:30] <jsgotangco> its the make file
[10:30] <mdke> /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C
[10:31] <jsgotangco> /usr/share/doc is natural
[10:31] <mdke> I think the fact that there is /en/ and /C/ will cause problems about where the translations will go
[10:31] <jsgotangco> the makefile should be fixed
[10:31] <jsgotangco> thats one thing i noticed when i did a scrollkeeper register 2 days ago
[10:32] <jsgotangco> the OMF file wouldn't matter really but
[10:32] <jsgotangco> it doesn't really look good
[10:32] <mdke> i think we should get rid of /en/ and keep /C/
[10:32] <jsgotangco> i try not looking at the make atm
[10:32] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper and docbook are very new to jbailey
[10:32] <mdke> ok but can you raise it at the meeting?
[10:32] <jsgotangco> sure
[10:33] <mdke> also perhaps announce the meeting on the list?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> ok
[10:33] <mdke> it's late notice... but still
[10:33] <mdke> might help
[10:33] <jsgotangco> i'll send one now with my brand new ubuntu.com email *bling*
[10:33] <mdke> ah
[10:33] <mdke> gimme
[10:33] <jsgotangco> yours should run now
[10:33] <mdke> what is my address?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> did you sign the CoC on lp?
[10:33] <mdke> yes
[10:34] <jsgotangco> what's your username
[10:34] <mdke> please don't let it by my launchpad username
[10:34] <jsgotangco> ah let me check
[10:34] <mdke> by/be
[10:34] <jsgotangco> mdke?
[10:34] <jsgotangco> haha
[10:35] <jsgotangco> oh my 
[10:35] <mdke> this is me: https://launchpad.net/people/gulliver666
[10:35] <jsgotangco> guliver666@ubuntu.com
[10:35] <jsgotangco> great
[10:35] <jsgotangco> let me try that
[10:35] <mdke> ok so if I change my LP username, will it change that email redirect?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> no idea
[10:35] <jsgotangco> can you try looking into your default lp email if something came in
[10:36] <jsgotangco> ah i got a failure
[10:36] <jsgotangco> goodie
[10:36] <jsgotangco> i think its best you ask elmo
[10:36] <mdke> hmm
[10:36] <mdke> i'm sure he has more important things to worry about
[10:36] <mdke> how did you set yours up?
[10:36] <jsgotangco> oh he emailed me about it
[10:36] <jsgotangco> robitaille has his ready as well
[10:37] <jsgotangco> its just a forwarder but pretty nifty
[10:37] <mdke> well if I wasn't emailed about it, I guess that means it wasn't set up right?
[10:38] <jsgotangco> no he emailed me because i haven't signed the CoC on lp
[10:39] <mdke> ah
[10:39] <mdke> what is your address?
[10:39] <jsgotangco> jgotangco@ubuntu.com
[10:39] <mdke> confusing
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ok going to send email about the meeting later
[10:39] <mdke> great
[10:39] <jsgotangco> why do?
[10:39] <jsgotangco> why so?
[10:39] <mdke> no js
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:39] <jsgotangco> well
[10:39] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[10:40] <jsgotangco> let me edit the agenda first
[10:40] <jsgotangco> it'll be easy
[10:41] <jsgotangco> (just about the freeze, css and the location)
[10:41] <jsgotangco> (as well as the pots)
[10:41] <mdke> great
[10:44] <mdke> ok fortunately it is very easy to change username
[10:45] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:45] <jsgotangco> is quicktour frozen?
[10:45] <jsgotangco> (string-wise that is)
[10:45] <mdke> not to my knowledge
[10:46] <jsgotangco> grrr
[10:46] <mdke> haha
[10:46] <mdke> did you see silbs' bug just now?
[10:46] <mdke> 15013
[10:50] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:50] <jsgotangco> lemme check
[10:50] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:50] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:50] <jsgotangco> well yes
[10:50] <jsgotangco> that's the one we're talking about later right
[10:51] <jsgotangco> let me answer this bug
[10:53] <jsgotangco> wonder where silbs is
[10:53] <mdke> also 15014
[10:53] <mdke> i've replied to that one
[10:54] <jsgotangco> gahhhh silbs
[10:55] <jsgotangco> hmm i see carlos
[10:55] <jsgotangco> let's grab him
[10:56] <mdke> why?
[10:56] <jsgotangco> just want to ask
[10:56] <mdke> i spent ages bugging them yesterday
[10:56] <mdke> no need to do it again
[11:00] <jsgotangco> sorry
[11:00] <jsgotangco> hm
[11:02] <mdke> np
[11:02] <mdke> getting them in rosetta won't be a problem
[11:02] <mdke> don't worry about it
[11:02] <mdke> i've done another cheeky edit to aboutubuntu
[11:02] <mdke> after silbs' bug 15014
[11:03] <jsgotangco> the link?
[11:03] <jsgotangco> ok
[11:03] <jsgotangco> better now than in the coming days
[11:03] <mdke> i added the link to participate
[11:06] <mdke> we'll regenerate the pots just before uploading to rosetta anyhow so it should be fine
[11:06] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:07] <mdke> jsgotangco, did you manage to test your ddclient package?
[11:07] <jsgotangco> you added it in global ent?
[11:07] <mdke> yes
[11:07] <jsgotangco> i did
[11:07] <jsgotangco> it segfault this 2am
[11:07] <mdke> works?
[11:07] <mdke> ah damn
[11:07] <jsgotangco> i will try again later
[11:07] <mdke> ;)
[11:07] <mdke> the debian maintainer seems to be dead
[11:07] <jsgotangco> thank the saviour that i am idle lately
[11:07] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:08] <ajmitch> :)
[11:08] <mdke> i may have to install ddclient the old fashioned way
[11:08] <jsgotangco> hey
[11:08] <mdke> i really need it
[11:08] <jsgotangco> i like my about ubuntu style
[11:08] <ajmitch> mdke: ddclient is universe?
[11:09] <jsgotangco> what's wrong with it
[11:09] <jsgotangco> silbs find it too long?
[11:09] <mdke> ajmitch, yes but the version is very old
[11:09] <mdke> ajmitch, i need a newer one to work with dnspark.com
[11:09] <ajmitch> mdke: no newer version in debian?
[11:09] <mdke> and the debian maintainer hasn't updated it
[11:09] <mdke> for like a year
[11:09] <mdke> ajmitch, if you could, you would be my favourite person
[11:10] <jsgotangco> not me anymore???
[11:10] <mdke> joint equal favourite person
[11:10] <ajmitch> mdke: ok, website url?
[11:10] <mdke> ajmitch, the debian bug is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=279542
[11:10] <ajmitch> thanks
[11:10] <jsgotangco> ok i leave it to mr. gnu
[11:11] <mdke> ajmitch, website is http://ddclient.sf.net i think
[11:11] <ajmitch> debian Big Maintainer Lock
[11:11] <jsgotangco> yay
[11:11] <mdke> what is that?
[11:13] <mdke> jsgotangco, re: the length of about ubuntu, I don't think we can do a lot about it, especially since the document is not only intended as the firefox homepage
[11:13] <mdke> what is Breezy +1 called?
[11:13] <jsgotangco> hey i only made it nice to read before it was terribly un friendly
[11:14] <mdke> i don't think it's too long dude
[11:14] <ajmitch> I've heard the name 'dapper' bounced about a bit
[11:14] <ajmitch> seems to hardly be a secret now :)
[11:14] <mdke> yeah i heard that
[11:14] <mdke> what animal?
[11:15] <ajmitch> no idea
[11:15] <mdke> hmm
[11:15] <mdke> deer?
[11:15] <mdke> dinosaur?
[11:15] <jsgotangco> hhmmm
[11:15] <mdke> dog?
[11:15] <mdke> donut
[11:16] <jsgotangco> for some reason OOo 2 makes really terrible PDFs when there are pngs and transparency involved
[11:18] <ajmitch> mdke: built a package for you to test
[11:18] <mdke> wow
[11:19] <mdke> ajmitch, i'll get to it later on, i should go now
[11:19] <mdke> ajmitch, email?
[11:20] <mdke> i'm matthew.east@breathe.com
[11:20] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.dyndns.win.co.nz/debuild/ubuntu/tmp/ddclient_3.6.6-1_all.deb
[11:20] <ajmitch> ok, email if you want
[11:20] <mdke> that's fine I'll download it now and test later
[11:20] <ajmitch> ok
[11:20] <mdke> thanks VERY much
[11:21] <mdke> heh
[11:21] <mdke> is that an ubuntu package or debian?
[11:21] <ajmitch> sigh
[11:21] <ajmitch> it's an ubuntu versioned package
[11:21] <ajmitch> but would run fine on debian
[11:22] <mdke> ok will try!
[11:22] <mdke> thanks
[11:27] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, i didn't get sponsored heh
[11:27] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: ah well
[11:28] <ajmitch> I guess we'll just have to swim over :)
[11:28] <jsgotangco> you too?
[11:28] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:28] <jsgotangco> we can do UDU 2
[11:28] <ajmitch> I got the email from claire
[11:28] <ajmitch> it's a shame you're not going
[11:28] <ajmitch> since the doc team will be a bit thin on the ground
[11:28] <jsgotangco> ahh no regrets
[11:29] <jsgotangco> we have nice laptops
[11:29] <ajmitch> yeah, I've got a laptop :)
[11:29] <ajmitch> & it's faster than my old one :)
[11:30] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:31] <jsgotangco> i was looking at the mail before it opened
[11:31] <jsgotangco> i was suspicious because it started with
[11:31] <jsgotangco> "i hope you are enjoying the laptop..."
[11:31] <ajmitch> hehe..
[11:31] <ajmitch> mine was titled 'UBZ'
[11:31] <ajmitch> nothing about a laptop
[11:34] <mdke> well we should email claire to ask that they take into account the fact that the docteam should have some representation
[11:34] <mdke> because if corey doesn't get sponsored either... we're in trouble
[11:35] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:35] <ajmitch> the MOTU team  is represented by canonical employees now
[11:35] <mdke> i can email if you like, since I didn't ask for sponsorship
[11:36] <jsgotangco> nahh its ok
[11:36] <jsgotangco> claire isn't into the technical things
[11:36] <jsgotangco> its best to tell mdz
[11:36] <mdke> ok
[11:37] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, is dholbach already employed?
[11:37] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: I think so
[11:37] <mdke> --> gone again
[11:37] <jsgotangco> ah right
[11:37] <ajmitch> not sure if he's told people 
[11:37] <jsgotangco> ogra too
[11:37] <ajmitch> ogra has been employed for months
[11:41] <GranMaestro> hi there, has anybody seen Matthew around this morning?
[11:41] <jsgotangco> Matthew who
[11:41] <jsgotangco> East?
[11:41] <jsgotangco> Thomas?
[11:41] <GranMaestro> yuo
[11:41] <GranMaestro> mdke
[11:41] <jsgotangco> just ping him he's online
[11:41] <ajmitch> he left < 10 minutes ago
[11:41] <GranMaestro> auch
[11:42] <GranMaestro> does he normally reply to email?
[11:42] <jsgotangco> sure
[11:42] <GranMaestro> I sent him one a couple of days ago but no reaction
[11:42] <jsgotangco> regarding what
[11:42] <GranMaestro> firewire install and bood for a imac
[11:42] <jsgotangco> (maybe i could help)
[11:43] <GranMaestro> can you help?
[11:43] <jsgotangco> oohhh
[11:43] <jsgotangco> sorry
[11:43] <GranMaestro> eheh
[11:43] <GranMaestro> come on don't make me cry :D
[11:44] <GranMaestro> jsgotangco: could you pls pass me a working email address for mdke?
[11:44] <jsgotangco> matthew.east@breathe.com
[11:44] <GranMaestro> I have used the following matthew.east.ubuntu@breathe.com
[11:45] <jsgotangco> oh they're just the same
[11:45] <GranMaestro> perhaps that's the problem
[11:45] <jsgotangco> he uses both
[11:45] <GranMaestro> will try yours, perhaps it got lost in spam mail
[12:21] <jsgotangco> ok guys see you later at the meeting im just going to the pub
[01:01] <mdke> GranMaestro, i replied to your second one
[01:02] <mdke> first one got lost in a lot of mail, sorry
[01:04] <mdke> i'm afraid I can't help you though
[01:05] <mdke> rob^, can you remember to comment on your wiki edits so that the people subscribed to the page can see what's going on?
[01:05] <rob^> mdke, ok, I just made one small change
[01:05] <mdke> heh
[01:06] <rob^> it just conflicted, so I fixed it
[01:06] <mdke> with docteam projects the diff is always too complicated to figure out what the change was
[01:06] <mdke> because of those weird tables
[01:06] <rob^> yeah, I just changed "Review" to "Finished" for the faq guide
[01:07] <mdke> great
[01:08] <mdke> would you mind glancing over the faqguide.pot to make sure that it's all in there?
[01:08] <mdke> i was a bit confused about which files in generic/faqguide/C/ were used, and which weren't
[01:08] <rob^> yeah, oh one thing, I was just reading the faq guide and noticed a mistake
[01:08] <mdke> is it a big one?
[01:09] <rob^> 2.5
[01:09] <mdke> ?
[01:09] <rob^> I just copied what corey wrote
[01:09] <rob^> "When you see this popup, click Show me.."
[01:10] <rob^> thats wrong, it says something else where you need to click
[01:10] <mdke> you can fix it if you like
[01:10] <rob^> can I still do that?
[01:10] <mdke> we haven't uploaded the pot files to rosetta yet so yeah
[01:11] <mdke> also, if you can get rid of the files in the directory that aren't used, that would be good
[01:11] <rob^> ok, will do shortly
[01:11] <mdke> thanks
[01:40] <rob^> mdke, will it effect the .pot in anyway if I change the sections in the faq guide from "review" to "finished"?
[01:43] <mdke> i'll be regererating the .pot anyhow
[01:43] <mdke> go ahead
[01:43] <rob^> ok thanks
[01:47] <rob^> hmm, is it status="finished" or "complete"?
[01:47] <rob^> hi jjesse 
[01:47] <jjesse> morning rob^ 
[01:48] <mdke> rob^, complete i think
[01:48] <mdke> check DocteamWork
[01:48] <rob^> yeah it is.. dang
[01:49] <mdke> do a find/replace
[01:49] <rob^> I am
[01:49] <rob^> i just did it with finished
[01:49] <rob^> :(
[01:50] <mdke> careful not to replace every instance of "finished" in the guide ;)
[01:50] <rob^> no, replacing "status="finished""
[01:51] <mdke> :)
[01:51] <rob^> umm with "complete" though
[01:51] <mdke> heh
[01:51] <mdke> status=complete
[02:01] <rob^> mdke, I just sent the last few changes to the list with a list of files that need to be removed
[02:02] <mdke> k
[02:02] <rob^> can't do it myself :(
[02:04] <sabdfl> hi all
[02:04] <mdke> rob^, is the add/remove documents documented in the faq guide?
[02:04] <mdke> how much work would it be to adapt the document if the menu entry was renamed and moved?
[02:04] <rob^> its mentioned, but because it does not install all the packages we need I used synaptic instead
[02:05] <mdke> ah
[02:05] <rob^> not much at all
[02:05] <mdke> sabdfl, so from our point of view you can probably go ahead and move/rename it
[02:05] <rob^> hi sabdfl 
[02:05] <sabdfl> hi guys
[02:05] <mdke> sabdfl, but the sooner we know, the sooner we can make the changes
[02:05] <sabdfl> ok, thanks very much
[02:05] <rob^> mdke, for sure, I would prefer it
[02:05] <rob^> removed that is
[02:06] <mdke> rob^, they are thinking of putting it back in the applications menu and giving it a shorter name
[02:06] <mdke> the idea is good IMO
[02:06] <rob^> I think it is too, but I hate the layout of it
[02:06] <rob^> its very messy
[02:06] <rob^> they should break it up more like synaptic
[02:07] <mdke> sabdfl, so can you give us the decision as soon as it is taken?
[02:07] <sabdfl> mdke: yes, today, either way
[02:07] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl 
[02:07] <mdke> great
[02:08] <sabdfl> hey ajmitch
[02:09] <GranMaestro> mdke: great to see you online :-D
[02:10] <GranMaestro> Have sent you a couple of mails in PM but got no reaction watsoever
[02:10] <rob^> hey I was talking to the guys in #svn, apparently svn can do branches like bazzar can
[02:11] <GranMaestro> sabdfl: are you still there?
[02:11] <mdke> GranMaestro, i replied to your last email
[02:12] <mdke> i didn't get any PM's
[02:12] <mdke> rob^, i've made the same mistake as yesterday :/
[02:12] <GranMaestro> mdke: thank you for replying I'll check straight away
[02:12] <mdke> rob^, can we resolve in the same way
[02:12] <rob^> haha.. ok, I'll email you my wcs
[02:12] <mdke> ?
[02:12] <rob^> yeah
[02:12] <mdke> sorry
[02:12] <rob^> its ok :)
[02:13] <GranMaestro> mdke: btw your are difficult to catch those days
[02:13] <mdke> GranMaestro, yep
[02:13] <GranMaestro> mdke: no mail in the box :-(
[02:13] <mdke> although to be fair, you've only ever sent me two emails, and I replied to the second one
[02:14] <sabdfl> GranMaestro: yes
[02:14] <mdke> GranMaestro, you are Pieterjan Lansbergen right?
[02:14] <GranMaestro> mdke: I see, is that to my gmail account yup
[02:14] <GranMaestro> sono io :-D
[02:14] <mdke> GranMaestro, no to ath.cx
[02:14] <mdke> at 10.51 BST today
[02:14] <sabdfl> mdke, rob^: decision was to move Add/Remove Programs to the Applications menu, called "Add Applications"
[02:15] <rob^> thanks sabdfl 
[02:15] <GranMaestro> should be pj at pjl.ath.cx let me doublecheck
[02:15] <mdke> cheers sabdfl 
[02:15] <rob^> mdke, I'll make the required changes then email you my working copies
[02:15] <GranMaestro> mdke: anyway do you think you can help with the FW issue?
[02:15] <mdke> GranMaestro, fraid not, I know nothing about it
[02:16] <GranMaestro> auch
[02:16] <mdke> rob^, better to email now, I'm about to go to lunch
[02:16] <GranMaestro> mdke: somebody must have the know how.. :-(
[02:16] <mdke> GranMaestro, you should try the ubuntu support mailing lists
[02:17] <GranMaestro> mdke: the Wiki was pointing to a solution and I thought you had direct experience
[02:17] <rob^> hmm, someone reviewing must have killed it
[02:17] <sabdfl> hey guys
[02:17] <sabdfl> something else i'd like to discuss, should be easy changes
[02:17] <rob^> yep
[02:18] <mdke> GranMaestro, fraid not, I didn't write that wiki page
[02:18] <sabdfl> the "About Ubuntu" page
[02:18] <GranMaestro> mdke: sounds like YDL is the place where to look further as all the Ubuntu people do is starting the external linux from the internal one
[02:18] <mdke> sabdfl, shoot
[02:18] <sabdfl> currently, that's in ubuntu-artwork, right?
[02:18] <jdub> yes
[02:19] <mdke> although there is a bug open about that
[02:19] <mdke> it should be moved to ubuntu-docs
[02:19] <sabdfl> well, it's also the FF home page, right?
[02:19] <mdke> as soon as we know the local address for it
[02:20] <mdke> yes, see http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3985
[02:20] <sabdfl> who wants to own that doc? i'd like it to really look beautiful for Breezy
[02:20] <sabdfl> it needs:
[02:20] <sabdfl>  - the current Ubuntu CSS and look
[02:20] <GranMaestro> mdke: not that it matters at this stage but your mail didn't arrive, could you pls check for future ref if you don't mind?
[02:20] <rob^> mdke, the section on add/remove applications has been removed during the review, so no changed needed
[02:20] <sabdfl>  - simpler text, more like the www.ubuntu.com initial paragraphs and commitment
[02:20] <jdub> sabdfl: so are you unassigning this from me now?
[02:21] <mdke> sabdfl, the doc is finished and frozen
[02:21] <sabdfl>  - more pictures, perhaps some screenshots from the quickguide
[02:21] <mdke> see also bugs 15013 and 15014 from silbs
[02:21] <mpt> GranMaestro: hi
[02:21] <sabdfl>   - no version-specific information
[02:21] <sabdfl> mdke: can i see it?
[02:21] <GranMaestro> mpt: hi there
[02:21] <mdke> yeah
[02:22] <jdub> sabdfl: firefox /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[02:22] <mdke> yep
[02:22] <mdke> although that is not the most recent version
[02:22] <jdub> it could do with a lot of removals
[02:22] <sabdfl> not found
[02:23] <jdub> got ubuntu-docs installed?
[02:23] <sabdfl> is it the same as file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[02:23] <mpt> GranMaestro: I don't know anything about installing Firewire, sorry
[02:23] <jdub> no
[02:23] <mpt> GranMaestro: I haven't seen your message, but I have ~180 unread, so probably I just haven't got to it yet
[02:23] <GranMaestro> somebody has gotta know something about it.. :-D
[02:23] <mdke> sabdfl, no you have to install ubuntu-docs
[02:23] <sabdfl> jdub: how did "About Ubuntu" get dropped from the System menu?
[02:23] <jdub> similarish content, similar old style
[02:23] <rob^> GranMaestro, yes I do
[02:24] <sabdfl> mdke: will that be installed by default? a dependency of ubuntu-desktop?
[02:24] <mdke> that is fixed already yeah
[02:24] <GranMaestro> mpt: I wrote to mdke, no you :-)
[02:24] <sabdfl> mdke: what is fixed already?
[02:24] <jdub> sabdfl: perhaps the file location check has been changed
[02:24] <mdke> the dependency is fixed already
[02:24] <mdke> --> food
[02:25] <rob^> GranMaestro, try this for a start: http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/faqi386/C/ch07.html#id3245330
[02:25] <rob^> yeah, its a kludge but what else can you do?
[02:25] <sabdfl> jdub: about ubuntu, please?
[02:25] <jdub> sabdfl: hmm?
[02:25] <GranMaestro> Well, just a general question to everybody reading. Who do you think is knowleadgeable about FireWire on Ubuntu-PPC and can be contacted?
[02:25] <sabdfl> jdub: answer my question
[02:25] <jdub> sabdfl: i did
[02:26] <GranMaestro> rob^: thks :-D
[02:26] <jdub> 22:24 < jdub> sabdfl: perhaps the file location check has been changed
[02:26] <jdub> i'm checking with seb atm
[02:26] <rob^> GranMaestro, np, its a start
[02:26] <sabdfl> mdke: i'm up to date, and ubuntu-docs is not installed
[02:27] <GranMaestro> rob^: I am afraid it doesn't apply to me however, tks anyway
[02:27] <rob^> GranMaestro, yeah, like I said thats about all I know
[02:27] <rob^> you need at least the ieee1394
[02:27] <rob^>  and ohci1394 kernel modules
[02:28] <rob^> GranMaestro, ask in #ubuntu
[02:28] <GranMaestro> One thing still puzzles me: Somebody has gotta know, how, but Who??
[02:28] <GranMaestro> rob^: I'll
[02:28] <rob^> its not really a discussion for here
[02:28] <GranMaestro> I agree just started here as I was chasing mdke
[02:28] <rob^> ok
[02:29] <mdke> sabdfl, pendingupload
[02:29] <mdke> kamion fixed it this morning
[02:30] <mdke> latest version of the doc is at
[02:30] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[02:30] <rob^> dang, I didn't get sponsored..
[02:30] <ajmitch> another one :(
[02:30] <mdke> rob^, no one from the doc team has got sponsored
[02:30] <ajmitch> soon there won't be any doc team there
[02:30] <rob^> yeah? that sucks
[02:30] <jdub> mdke: will any of the file locations change in the next ubuntu-docs update?
[02:31] <mdke> unless corey did
[02:31] <mdke> jdub, yeah they may
[02:31] <jdub> mdke: hrm, ok
[02:31] <mdke> jdub, it will be finalised before the end of the day I hope
[02:31] <jdub> ok
[02:31] <mdke> i'll post it to that bug report when it is?
[02:33] <jdub> thanks - seb needs to know to change gnome-panel
[02:33] <jjesse> anyone got some time to whip up some upgrade notes and post them on the wiki?
[02:33] <rob^> yeah I suppose I do
[02:33] <mdke> sabdfl, those comments on about ubuntu are valid and have been made by silbs in her bugs reports, but we can't drastically change about-ubuntu now, doc freeze is past and we need to get the doc to translation ASAP
[02:33] <mdke> the css will be addressed though
[02:33] <rob^> jjesse, what did you have in mind?
[02:34] <jjesse> on #kubuntu this morning there is lots of talk about breezy which is nice, just trying to find out when i have time to upgrage
[02:34] <rob^> jjesse, like features and stuff, or a howto?
[02:34] <jjesse> rob^: people on #kubuntu are asking do i have to download the cd to upgrade, can i just change my sources.list or is there something else that i need to 
[02:34] <jjesse> do
[02:35] <jjesse> rob^: maybe something like HoaryUpgradeNotes (i think that's the warty -> hoary) upgrade section
[02:35] <rob^> jjesse, ok, I'll check it out
[02:37] <rob^> brb
[02:39] <sabdfl> mdke: if it hasn't started heavy translation, i'd like to climb in and edit it now
[02:39] <sabdfl> is it in a baz archive i can get?
[02:39] <mdke> it's in our svn repository
[02:39] <jdub> sabdfl: so, again, task is not assigned to me anymore?
[02:40] <mdke> sabdfl, i'll apply a patch if you make one
[02:40] <mdke> but please bear in mind that it is not only the firefox home page
[02:40] <sabdfl> jdub: the task for the document which is currently accidentally dropped form the menu, is also in at least three different places on the hard drive according to three different apps, is not publicly visible, does not currently use the ubuntu css? yes
[02:41] <mdke> sabdfl, again, this sort of thing is best done before freeze
[02:41] <sabdfl> mdke: as far as i can tell the doc is not even VISIBLE at freeze time
[02:41] <sabdfl> so it's hard to have commented on it
[02:41] <mdke> erm
[02:42] <sabdfl> i can work quickly and efficiently, and we'll all be pleased by the results
[02:42] <mdke> sabdfl, the document has not changed greatly since appearing in Hoary
[02:42] <sabdfl> where can i get the latest version in revision control?
[02:42] <sabdfl> mdke: it really needs to!
[02:42] <mdke> sabdfl, i take your points, but it is very late. Gimme a sec and i'll link you
[02:42] <sabdfl> thanks
[02:43] <mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/gnome/aboutubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml
[02:43] <mdke> sabdfl, ^
[02:43] <mdke> but please don't blame us that the document has not been ready to comment on, cos we've done our best
[02:44] <mdke> and it's been in hoary for 6 months
[02:44] <sabdfl> mdke: no blame here, i'd just like to get it, edit it, and check it off my list
[02:44] <sabdfl> guys, baz is so much better than svn... 
[02:44] <mdke> k
[02:45] <mdke> silbs made some comments on the file about a month ago in the list which we acted upon straight away
[02:45] <mdke> if you send a patch, we'll apply it
[02:46] <sabdfl> hmm... is the canonical version the XML one?
[02:46] <sabdfl> why not an HTML page?
[02:46] <mdke> dude
[02:46] <mdke> please!
[02:47] <sabdfl> just curious. is this docbook-xml?
[02:47] <mdke> yep
[02:47] <mdke> it can be transformed into html and other formats
[02:47] <mdke> we ship in html
[02:47] <mdke> and it is easier for making po files and pdf's and so on to work in xml
[02:47] <sabdfl> ok
[02:47] <jdub> mdke: btw, we're just getting the first sign of pushback on the whole "ship html" mess :)
[02:48] <sabdfl> svn co, then svn diff?
[02:48] <rob^> jdub, what like?
[02:48] <mdke> jdub, ?
[02:48] <jdub> "why can't i have my nice translated document when i click About Ubuntu like i did in hoary?"
[02:48] <mdke> sabdfl, if you just edit the file and make a patch normally, then send to docteam list, we'll apply it
[02:49] <mdke> jdub, the answer is "the doc hasn't been translated yet", not "because the docteam ships in html"
[02:49] <jdub> mdke: it's both
[02:49] <mdke> jdub, how so?
[02:50] <jdub> because it doesn't integrate with the help readers, we can't make the about ubuntu launcher a simple "load this document" and get the right translation for the user's locale
[02:50] <rob^> hmm..
[02:50] <mdke> that is odd
[02:50] <sabdfl> mdke: the ubuntu logo that it is referring to is an old version
[02:50] <jdub> i tried to explain it way back when
[02:51] <mdke> sabdfl, the css and logo hasn't yet been sorted
[02:51] <jdub> why going for the lowest common denominator was a bad idea
[02:51] <sabdfl> ok
[02:51] <rob^> is yelp still crashing with qanda tags?
[02:51] <rob^> and does it display them properly yet?
[02:51] <mdke> jdub, why doesn't it work with html
[02:51] <jdub> mdke: because there is no magic "where do i get my translations" with html
[02:52] <mdke> you can't point them to /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/about-ubuntu/LOCALE/index.html?
[02:52] <jdub> rob^: doubt it
[02:52] <rob^> jdub, thats half the reason html was chosen
[02:52] <jdub> mdke: we'd have to put additional smarts  into every single thing that launches docs, instead of using the existing infrastructure
[02:52] <jdub> rob^: yes, and one i suggested was a bit frivolous
[02:52] <mdke> jdub, dude don't start.
[02:53] <mdke> you intervened occasionally in irc and kept promising to write emails that never came
[02:53] <mdke> i don't remember this problem being raised
[02:53] <jdub> i sent two lengthy emails about it
[02:53] <jdub> one of which mentioned the translation issue
[02:54] <jdub> though not as specific as this (which is the most visible case)
[02:54] <mdke> hmm
[02:54] <mdke> well the meeting decision was unanimous
[02:54] <rob^> do we have time to get our docs working in Yelp?
[02:54] <mdke> we couldn't think of one single disadvantage
[02:54] <rob^> as xml?
[02:55] <mdke> no point crying over spilt milk anyhow
[02:55] <jdub> mdke: hey, not like that at all
[02:55] <jdub> there are lots of disadvantages :)
[02:56] <jdub> rob^: docbook could be shipped with the packages, in the correct places for use in yelp/khelpcenter
[02:56] <mdke> jdub, well we weren't aware of any when we made the decision in the meeting, because I remember it was a really easy one and everyone was unanimous
[02:56] <mdke> ok i'm going to back out of this
[02:57] <seb128_> so, who broke the documentation? :)
[02:57] <jdub> mdke: unfortunately, much of it was informed by sean, without any reference to the developers
[02:57] <rob^> jdub, would it look the same?
[02:57] <mdke> i'll check email this evening and see if the docs are ready for translating
[02:57] <jdub> rob^: it would be rendered with yelp css
[02:57] <jdub> rob^: the other docs that have qanda probably wouldn't work
[02:57] <rob^> jdub, let me have a look
[02:57] <sabdfl> mdke: how do i make a web link in docbook?
[02:57] <rob^> brb
[02:57] <mdke> jdub, and you picked 4 months after the decision was taken to start complaining?
[02:57] <mdke> sabdfl, <ulink url="address">link</ulink>
[02:58] <seb128_> mdke: complaining about what? html format?
[02:58] <mdke> yeah
[02:58] <jdub> mdke: i raised my concerns many times leading up to the decision, i was overruled, and have raised it now to demonstrate a real effect on users (and a regression)
[02:58] <seb128_> mdke: I just complained because I noticed we have big regressions on the desktop 
[02:58] <sabdfl> mdke: thanks muchly
[02:58] <seb128_> mdke: that just br0ke translations
[02:58] <mdke> seb128_, in terms of packaging docs best thing is to talk to jbailey who has been helping us with the packaging
[02:58] <rob^> just checking out the faqguide xml in yelp, it actually works pretty good now
[02:59] <mdke> seb128_, the intention was to ship translations as html too
[02:59] <rob^> and renders properly
[02:59] <seb128_> mdke: yelp is much better integrated and point to the right locale
[02:59] <rob^> the only thing causing it issues is the ubuntu/kubuntu profiles
[02:59] <sabdfl> is there a good docbook viewer?
[02:59] <seb128_> mdke: a browser entry would open the en version
[02:59] <sabdfl> to test my work?
[02:59] <mdke> sabdfl, yelp
[02:59] <seb128_> sabdfl: yelp? 
[02:59] <jdub> sabdfl: you can use yelp
[02:59] <rob^> yep
[03:00] <seb128_> mdke: html for translations is a big regression
[03:00] <mdke> seb128_, so there is no solution?
[03:00] <seb128_> mdke: ship xml like for hoary
[03:00] <seb128_> mdke: it's amazing you guys just broke it without even mailing ubuntu-devel before
[03:00] <mdke> erm
[03:00] <seb128_> html doesn't work for GNOME
[03:00] <mdke> mdz was involved in the decision
[03:01] <jdub> mdke: (sorry to raise it again, i know it's an ugly issue, but after being overruled so strongly i think it's reasonable to come back and demonstrate the failures of the decision)
[03:01] <seb128_> still, we have one list to communicate
[03:01] <rob^> can we tell yelp which profile to use?
[03:01] <seb128_> such discussion should have a notice on it
[03:01] <mdke> if someone had said, as jdub says he did, "translations will break", we would never have made that decision
[03:01] <rob^> if so, I can't see why we can't use xml.
[03:01] <jdub> rob^: i don't think so
[03:01] <seb128_> if somebody would have send a mail on the devel list people knowing would had a chance to comment
[03:01] <rob^> I could remove the kubuntu profile, might take a day or two
[03:02] <seb128_> sure by making decision on your corner you have no feedback
[03:02] <mdke> seb128_, i asked mdz "should we discuss with the technical board", he said, no problem
[03:02] <jdub> rob^: but you could process each profile into a separate document
[03:02] <mdke> anyway
[03:02] <mdke> how can we fix this?
[03:02] <seb128_> mdke: you didn't say him that would be an issue for translations neither
[03:02] <rob^> jdub, it would be cleaner like that
[03:02] <mdke> seb128_, i didn't know
[03:02] <seb128_> mdke: that's why you should have asked to some people before making decisions
[03:02] <jdub> rob^: (i tend to think profiles are overengineered for this anyway)
[03:02] <rob^> mdke, we could just remove kubuntu profile from the faq and ship in xml, yelp now renders properly
[03:02] <seb128_> mdke: can't we just roll back to the hoary packages format?
[03:02] <mdke> seb128_, the announcement was made on the devel list too but I guess no one saw it
[03:03] <mdke> seb128_, better talk to jbailey about it
[03:03] <jbailey> I'm here.
[03:03] <mdke> the xml files are there, but we will need to edit the faqguide as rob^ says
[03:03] <seb128_> mdke: the style guide?
[03:04] <rob^> the style guide isn't shipped is it?
[03:04] <jdub> seb128_: the reason why the discussion went haywire was because it was turned into a silly gnome vs. kde "let's make it generic" mess, which screwed everyone
[03:04] <seb128_> jdub: KDE can't work with docbook files?
[03:04] <jdub> seb128_: so, at the time, it was better to make a decision and get on with it
[03:04] <jbailey> rob^: About, faq, and quicktour only in the ubuntu-docs package.
[03:04] <jdub> seb128_: they develop with docbook, but ship modified html
[03:04] <rob^> seb128_, no yelp had problems with qanda tags
[03:05] <rob^> which the faq uses
[03:05] <rob^> but it seems to be fixed now
[03:05] <mdke> ok i'm going to leave you guys too it because I am late for an appointment
[03:05] <jdub> seb128_: there were some specious incompatibility issues (the least specious of which was qanda) with yelp
[03:05] <seb128_> rob^: you should have raised the issue when it was time to fix yelp for 5.10
[03:05] <seb128_> rob^: good so
[03:05] <jdub> rob^: i did say to you guys that it would be fixed :-)
[03:05] <seb128_> later mdke
[03:05] <rob^> I rased the issue with the rest of the docteam, but was told not to worry because we would ship html
[03:05] <mdke> try and talk about solutions though please
[03:06] <jbailey> seb128_: This will also be helped in that I plan to make weekly uploads through the next release so that we get the state of the documentation as it changes.
[03:06] <mdke> also seb128_ there is a docteam meeting in about an hour so hopefully it can be sorted out during that
[03:06] <jdub> jbailey: need to ship docbook in the same directories as we did with hoary, same as all other gnome docs
[03:06] <mdke> bye all
[03:06] <rob^> cya mdke 
[03:06] <jbailey> jdub: Is this permanent, or a hack for breezy?
[03:07] <seb128_> thanks mdke, later
[03:07] <seb128_> jbailey: permanent
[03:07] <jdub> jbailey: it really ought to be permanent, but i guess that's up to the doc team
[03:07] <seb128_> jbailey: that's what GNOME uses
[03:07] <jdub> given that the decision was made here previously
[03:07] <jbailey> jdub: Judging by seb's reaction, I'm guessing it's not. =)
[03:07] <rob^> we will discuss it in the meeting in an hour
[03:07] <jdub> jbailey: well, seb can sometimes even be blunter than i ;)
[03:07] <rob^> I can't see why we can't ship xml now, so we may 
[03:08] <seb128_> jbailey: sorry, I don't like to discover b0rkage because people just take decisions without noticing people concerned (ie: the desktop team)
[03:08] <jbailey> rob^: IIRC, one of the documents doesn't exist in docbook, only html.
[03:08] <rob^> jbailey, yes, but its only a new half finished doc
[03:08] <rob^> we can just scrap it and redo in xml
[03:09] <rob^> the quicktour
[03:09] <jbailey> Ah, the short one.
[03:09] <jbailey> Not so bad. =)
[03:09] <rob^> yep
[03:09] <jbailey> How are translations handled for this?  Do they come in the language packs?
[03:09] <jdub> rob^: we probably don't need to install quicktour on the disk...
[03:09] <rob^> jdub, no your right
[03:10] <rob^> I say maybe just have it available on the web site when its done
[03:10] <jdub> jbailey: no, not at the moment
[03:10] <seb128_> jbailey: no
[03:10] <rob^> only a few people will use it
[03:10] <jdub> jbailey: dpkg -L gedit-data
[03:10] <jbailey> Le paquet gedit-data n'est pas install.
[03:10] <jdub> rob^: what's the easiest way to suck down all the docs?
[03:10] <rob^> the user guide when thats done for next release (hopefully) will be better and more in depth anyway
[03:10] <jbailey> jdub: Did you mean a different package?
[03:11] <jdub> jbailey: just so you see the layout
[03:11] <seb128_> jbailey: gnome-panel-data
[03:11] <rob^> jdub, its blown out to about 200mb due to people uploading crap
[03:11] <jdub> rob^: ouch
[03:11] <seb128_> jbailey: just example of apps shipping translated xml files
[03:11] <jdub> jbailey: see under /usr/share/gnome/help
[03:11] <jbailey>  /gnome/help and /omf both?
[03:11] <seb128_> yeah
[03:11] <jbailey> seb128_: Ugh.  Whill those be split out for dapper?
[03:12] <seb128_> 'dapper'? 
[03:12] <rob^> jdub, when we change to bazzar I hope none of that crap makes it across
[03:12] <jdub> seb128_: breezy+1 :)
[03:12] <rob^> jdub, svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
[03:12] <jbailey> rob^: It'll be gone before then.  I'm just waiting for write access to the svn.
[03:12] <seb128_> oh, it has a name ? :)
[03:12] <jdub> it's bizaare that they're not already split
[03:12] <seb128_> jbailey: not afaik ... maybe want to speak to pitti/carlos about that
[03:12] <jdub> rob^: this will be 200MB? :)
[03:12] <rob^> jbailey, I'm just waiting for a new password and I will be too
[03:12] <rob^> jdub, yep
[03:13] <rob^> you could decend into the directories and pull down just parts of it
[03:13] <rob^> generic/faqguide for example
[03:13] <jbailey> rob^: who are you working with, elmo?
[03:13] <jdub> ta
[03:14] <rob^> jbailey, yes, elmo controls the access
[03:14] <jbailey> 'kay, I'll poke him again then.
[03:14] <rob^> thanks
[03:14] <jdub> yay, fixage!
[03:14] <rob^> I did about an hour ago, no reply 
[03:15] <jbailey> seb128_: 'kay.  I'm just curious how much random weight gnome-docs-{en,fr,etc} would save.
[03:15] <seb128_> jbailey: maybe 50M on a desktop install
[03:16] <jbailey> So probably worth it for people apt-get upgrading in .au. ;)
[03:16] <rob^> jdub, yep, they should be
[03:17] <rob^> jdub, the kubuntu version might have been done on time if this were originally the case
[03:17] <jdub> rob^: sorry, missed the context?
[03:18] <rob^> jdub it's bizaare that they're not already split
[03:18] <rob^> ^^
[03:18] <jdub> ah, i meant the translations via language packs
[03:18] <rob^> ah ok sorry :)
[03:18] <jdub> but yes, same thing for the profiled docs ;)
[03:18] <jdub> too much overengineering
[03:19] <rob^> yep
[03:24] <jbailey> Is there a posted agenda for the DT meeting?
[03:24] <rob^> yes
[03:25] <rob^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
[03:26] <jdub> jbailey: you adding packaging/shipping changes to it?
[03:27] <jbailey> jdub: Yup
[03:27] <jdub> ok
[03:28] <rob^> jjesse, I have something basic for you at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyUpgradeNotes
[03:30] <rob^> jbailey, can we move the packaging changes to the top, it will effect some of the others
[03:30] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:30] <jbailey> rob^: Sure.  I assumed that whoever was chairing the meeting would order them at the beginning.
[03:30] <rob^> its usually top down
[03:30] <jsgotangco> what is this about?
[03:30] <rob^> jsgotangco, you will see come the meeting
[03:30] <rob^> shipping in xml
[03:31] <jsgotangco> gahhhhh
[03:31] <jdub> hrh
[03:31] <jdub> heh
[03:31] <jsgotangco> i really don't mind xml
[03:31] <jjesse> rob^: that looks great thanks :)
[03:31] <jbailey> rob^: Are you moving it or shall I?
[03:31] <jsgotangco> except that it will entail a lot of changes
[03:31] <rob^> jbailey, you can if you want
[03:31] <jjesse> rob^:  sorry i didn't have time this mroning, busy @ work
[03:31] <rob^> jjesse, np
[03:32] <jbailey> rob^: Done
[03:32] <rob^> thanks jbailey 
[03:33] <mdke> back
[03:33] <rob^> hi mdke 
[03:34] <mdke> rob^, just applied your working copy
[03:34] <rob^> thanks mdke 
[03:34] <rob^> I can help out with the packaging in future if needed, I know the basics
[03:34] <rob^> thought I might mention that
[03:34] <jbailey> rob^: Cool.
[03:34] <mdke> what else needs doing to ship faq in xml?
[03:34] <jbailey> rob^: The three of us can play together then.
[03:34] <rob^> mdke, just remove the kubuntu profile
[03:34] <mdke> it needs to be deprofiled?
[03:35] <rob^> yep
[03:35] <mdke> ok
[03:35] <mdke> can it be done today?
[03:35] <rob^> maybe
[03:35] <rob^> its almost midnight here
[03:35] <jsgotangco> i just left in a few hours for some beers and this channel looks totally different now
[03:35] <mdke> yeah we've had some issues
[03:35] <rob^> sfd tomorrow..
[03:35] <rob^> yep
[03:35] <jdub> jsgotangco: too many beers? :)
[03:36] <jsgotangco> jdub: its not a good day for me
[03:36] <jdub> rob^: you celebrating sfd?
[03:36] <rob^> jdub, yes, installfest
[03:36] <jdub> rad
[03:36] <mdke> rob^, so what do you think we should do with the kde profiling?
[03:36] <rob^> me being the local ubuntu guru and all ;P
[03:37] <jdub> i am donning my orange overalls and doing CDs/talks love ;)
[03:37] <rob^> mdke, kill it, it more a hinderance then a help
[03:37] <jbailey> mdke: What does that mean?
[03:37] <jdub> rob^: where are you based?
[03:37] <jbailey> jdub: Orange?
[03:37] <rob^> jdub, australia, Townsville
[03:37] <jdub> jbailey: *very* orange :-)
[03:37] <jdub> rob^: oh!
[03:37] <jbailey> jdub: Are you wearing them on your tour?
[03:37] <jdub> elite :-)
[03:37] <rob^> hehehe
[03:37] <jdub> jbailey: i guess i'll have to take them :)
[03:37] <ajmitch> more australians :)
[03:38] <mdke> rob^, what about the arch profiling?
[03:38] <rob^> mdke, there isn't any at the moment
[03:38] <rob^> all three are the same
[03:38] <jbailey> ajmitch: I keep forgetting that there's more to .au than Sydney.
[03:38] <mdke> rob^, ouch
[03:38] <rob^> yep
[03:38] <rob^> sean left it in a mess
[03:38] <jbailey> It's the problem with only having visited one building^Wcity.
[03:38] <mdke> can we stop building three copies then?
[03:38] <ajmitch> heh, yeah
[03:38] <jdub> jbailey: ha ha ha
[03:39] <mdke> maybe jbailey can sort that
[03:39] <rob^> mdke, yes we can
[03:39] <mdke> great
[03:39] <jbailey> mdke: I'm ever your slave.  What do you need?
[03:39] <mdke> lol
[03:39] <rob^> but if we want different faqs for the three archs then yeah..
[03:39] <mdke> jbailey, the current packaging has three editions of the faq guide, separated by arch, apparently they are all the same
[03:40] <jbailey> ah, really?
[03:40] <jdub> way too complicated
[03:40] <jsgotangco> gimme a few minutes tonight is friday and i have to go to the family altar and offer something for my ancestors then we go to meeting
[03:40] <mdke> if we ship the faqguide as xml then this won't be a problem i guess
[03:41] <mdke> but we need to remove the kubuntu profiling right?
[03:41] <rob^> mdke, yes, otherwise you get things like "ubuntukubuntu" happening
[03:41] <mdke> gah
[03:41] <rob^> very ugly
[03:42] <mdke> let's start eliminating it?
[03:42] <rob^> the meeting is in 15 mins
[03:42] <rob^> I guess I can start
[03:43] <rob^> :)
[03:43] <mdke> i'll help
[03:43] <mdke> what do I search for
[03:43] <rob^> things like:
[03:43] <rob^> <phrase os="kde">kubuntu</phrase>
[03:43] <rob^> &ubuntu;&kubuntu;
[03:44] <mdke> k
[03:44] <mdke> which file shall i start on?
[03:44] <mdke> gimme a short one :)
[03:44] <jsgotangco> tsk...
[03:44] <jsgotangco> i've seen this before
[03:44] <rob^> actually I can probably get it done pretty quickly
[03:44] <rob^> give me 5 minutes
[03:45] <mdke> i'm starting on applications.xml
[03:45] <rob^> ok, I'll do faqguide.xml
[03:45] <mdke> finished!
[03:45] <mdke> there was only one...
[03:45] <rob^> i had 24
[03:46] <mdke> ok hardware.xml
[03:46] <rob^> ok done faqguide.xml
[03:46] <rob^> ah crap, I got to svn up
[03:47] <mdke> none there
[03:47] <rob^> there isn't much
[03:47] <mdke> hardware and preface done
[03:47] <rob^> like I said, if the kubuntu and ubuntu faq guides were different documents more would have been done
[03:47] <rob^> its pretty easy actually
[03:48] <mdke> upgrading-ubuntu done
[03:48] <jsgotangco> bahhh
[03:48] <jsgotangco> (who's idea was html in the 1st place)
[03:48] <mdke> lol
[03:48] <rob^> seans
[03:48] <mdke> you know full well
[03:48] <mdke> i liked the idea though
[03:48] <mdke> because I had no idea it would break translations
[03:48] <jsgotangco> i was against it from the start
[03:49] <rob^> oh, its horrible to work with anyway
[03:49] <jdub> it was very silly :)
[03:49] <mdke> troubleshooting.xml done
[03:49] <jsgotangco> jdub: a word would have been more helpful earlier
[03:49] <rob^> you have to keep in mind so much crap so not to mess things up
[03:49] <jdub> jsgotangco: i tried, was overruled :|
[03:49] <mdke> tips and tricks.xml done
[03:49] <rob^> mdke, you might as well do them all :)
[03:50] <mdke> ok
[03:50] <rob^> rather then me email you my changes etc
[03:50] <rob^> there is only like 8 documents, and its just search and replace
[03:50] <rob^> or remove
[03:51] <rob^> umm, you will also need to remove everything rapped in tags with os="kde" too
[03:51] <mdke> k
[03:51] <mdke> remove the whole thing?
[03:51] <rob^> there shouldn't be too much
[03:51] <mdke> or just the tag?
[03:51] <rob^> no, everything rapped in that tag
[03:51] <mdke> ok
[03:52] <jsgotangco> alright guys 8 minutes
[03:52] <rob^> there is a separate paragraph for gnome
[03:52] <jdub> jsgotangco: u-m?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> jdub: ahr
[03:55] <jsgotangco> 4 minutes
[03:56] <sabdfl> ok, i've edited up the doc
[03:56] <sabdfl> svn diff gives a simple diff, will that be ok?
[03:56] <mdke> should be
[03:57] <sabdfl> mdke: email addr?
[03:57] <sabdfl> m.e.u@breathe.com?
[03:58] <mdke> sabdfl, yeah that's fine
[03:58] <sabdfl> sent
[03:58] <sabdfl> thanks guys
[03:58] <mdke> i am crazy editing something else right now so gimme a bit
[03:59] <sabdfl> ping me if there's anything controversial in my changes
[03:59] <jsgotangco> #u-m time
[03:59] <sabdfl> i've shortened the front page, expanded some of the others
[04:01] <rob^> anyone else for the meeting!?
[04:01] <mdke> sabdfl, ok
[04:02] <mdke> rob^, i am gonna concentrate on removing this profiling
[04:02] <rob^> ok
[04:02] <rob^> thanks :)
[04:02] <rob^> let me know if you need anything
[04:03] <mdke> rob^, does ./validate faqguide.xml check all the files?
[04:03] <rob^> yes
[04:03] <rob^> all the relevent ones
[04:03] <mdke> crap
[04:03] <mdke> one error
[04:03] <rob^> you may have to remove entries from faqguide.xml for the files you rm'ed
[04:04] <mdke> the error is in this line apparently:
[04:04] <mdke> <book lang="&language;" id="x01">
[04:04] <mdke> can you check it for me?
[04:04] <mdke> svn up && ./validate.sh etc
[04:15] <mdke> rob^, any luck?
[04:16] <rob^> yep
[04:16] <rob^> but now I'm getting:
[04:16] <rob^> ./validate.sh generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml
[04:16] <rob^> generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml:31: element book: validity error : Element book content does not follow the DTD, expecting ((title , subtitle? , titleabbrev?)? , bookinfo? , (dedication | toc | lot | glossary | bibliography | preface | chapter | reference | part | article | appendix | index | setindex | colophon)*), got (title bookinfo preface chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter CDATA chapter a
[04:16] <rob^> ppendix appendix )
[04:16] <rob^> Document generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml does not validate
[04:16] <mdke> that is what I get
[04:16] <mdke> any idea what is wrong?
[04:18] <rob^> its weard how it bums out midway thru the tag
[04:19] <mdke> weird that that wasn't there before as well
[04:20] <jeffsch> i just did make faqi386 and it built fine. I haven
[04:20] <jeffsch> i havent' looked at the result yet
[04:20] <jeffsch> revision 1765
[04:20] <rob^> yeah, it will still build with those errors
[04:21] <mdke> use ./validate.sh
[04:22] <jeffsch> why not just leave it? the kde profile doesn't break anything. there's no point pulling hair over it atm
[04:23] <mdke> well it gives you ubuntukubuntu all over the place
[04:23] <mdke> and SynapticKynaptic
[04:23] <rob^> jeffsch, we cant spesify which profile when using xml
[04:23] <jeffsch> argh. stoopid yelp.
[04:23] <rob^> s/spesify/specify
[04:24] <mdke> anyway, it's all removed now, except for that validation error
[04:29] <mdke> any ideas?
[04:30] <rob^> I'm trying to decypher the error message
[04:30] <mdke> it is line 31 it doesn't like right?
[04:31] <rob^> that error usually means there are tags in the wrong order
[04:31] <mdke> yeah
[04:31] <rob^> but the way it explains it sucks
[04:33] <jeffsch> it got some data outside of a tag
[04:34] <jeffsch> CDATA is not allowed in the tag <book>
[04:34] <mdke> jeffsch, CDATA?
[04:35] <jeffsch> yes. read the output from the script
[04:35] <jeffsch> got (title bookinfo preface chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter chapter CDATA chapter
[04:35] <jeffsch> CDATA is character data
[04:36] <jeffsch> so there are some characters that are not enclosed within tags somewhere in the document
[04:36] <mdke> that is gonna be hard to pin down?
[04:37] <jeffsch> the brute force way is to do it by eye. it could take 5 seconds or 5 minutes 
[04:37] <jeffsch> a script genius or a sed artist could do it much faster though :)
[04:38] <jeffsch> i am neither :(
[04:38] <mdke> crap
[04:38] <mdke> can we tell which chapter it is in?
[04:39] <rob^> <book lang="&language;" id="x01">
[04:39] <rob^> thats the tag
[04:40] <jeffsch> it's somewhere in the faqguide.xml file... the validate script won't read in the other files
[04:40] <mdke> sure?
[04:41] <jeffsch> yep
[04:41] <jeffsch> maybe do an svn diff.
[04:41] <rob^> I've seen this before now that you mention it, grr
[04:43] <rob^> grouphug.us
[04:44] <jsgotangco> oh don't worry about me
[04:44] <jsgotangco> it just happened that a lot of things happened to me
[04:44] <jsgotangco> not just here but irl
[04:44] <mdke> well don't worry about Ubuntu things
[04:44] <jsgotangco> i just found out yesterday that 2 of my cousins are dead in N.O.
[04:44] <mdke> they will sort themselves out
[04:45] <mdke> shit sorry about that
[04:45] <jbailey> Ouch.
[04:45] <jsgotangco> and things haven't been good at home as well
[04:45] <jsgotangco> so what i've been doing here was sort of an escape
[04:45] <jsgotangco> (a productive one at that)
[04:46] <mdke> rob^, i was thinking perhaps we should revert the faqguide changes and start again with removing the profiling
[04:46] <rob^> yeah, might be easier :(
[04:46] <rob^> umm hang on
[04:46] <rob^> before you do
[04:46] <rob^> let me try one last thing
[04:47] <mdke> by the way there are some validation problems in rescue-mode.xml which weren't caused by me
[04:47] <mdke> missing entities
[04:47] <mdke> ditto applications.xml
[04:47] <rob^> I just removed some cruft and the problem went away
[04:47] <rob^> now just a few easier problems to solve
[04:48] <mdke> maybe the entities are defined in faqguide.xml?
[04:48] <mdke> all the files seem to give errors validating
[04:50] <rob^> mdke, you dont vailidate them all, only faqguide.xml
[04:50] <rob^> it pulls them all in
[04:50] <mdke> jeffsch said that that only validates that file, not the others
[04:50] <rob^> yes
[04:50] <rob^> it isn't a complete docbook document without faqguide.xml
[04:50] <mdke> so did you solve the problem with faqguide.xml?
[04:50] <rob^> hmm...
[04:51] <jeffsch> if you validate faqguide.xml, then it won't catch the errors in applications.xml
[04:51] <rob^> it should
[04:51] <rob^> it pulls it in
[04:52] <jeffsch> rob^: <mdke> by the way there are some validation problems in rescue-mode.xml
[04:52] <jeffsch> rob^: it should. it's what you would expect, but it does not :(
[04:52] <rob^> I think the problem is that not all of the profile is removed
[04:52] <mdke> jeffsch, maybe those problems are due to the fact that it is not complete on its own
[04:54] <mdke> it is when it refers to entites in other documents
[04:58] <rob^> yay got it
[04:58] <rob^> I can get it to vailidate if i comment out the following in faqguide.xml:
[04:58] <rob^> 	&rescue-mode;
[04:58] <rob^> 	&tips-and-tricks;
[04:58] <rob^> 	&troubleshooting;
[04:58] <rob^> 	&upgrading-ubuntu;
[04:58] <rob^> 	&cc-by-sa;
[04:58] <rob^> 	&fdl; -->
[05:00] <jbailey> *lol*
[05:00] <rob^> hehe
[05:00] <jbailey> So if you remove the document?;)
[05:00] <rob^> ok minus fdl and rescue mode
[05:01] <jbailey> It would be vaguely satisfying if the FDL wouldn't validate.
[05:01] <rob^> hahahaha
[05:02] <jeffsch> it's catching the CDATA after the 11th chapter tag...
[05:02] <rob^> the last chapter?
[05:03] <rob^> yep
[05:04] <rob^> comment it out, and it validates np
[05:04] <jeffsch> there it is! 
[05:04] <jeffsch> upgrading-ubuntu.xml
[05:04] <rob^> yep
[05:04] <rob^> got it
[05:04] <rob^> a stray "kub"
[05:04] <rob^> what a pita
[05:05] <mdke> sorry about that!!!
[05:05] <mdke> thanks
[05:05] <rob^> ok, well I have also remove more of the profile whist I was at it
[05:05] <rob^> so do you want to commit mine?
[05:06] <mdke> sure
[05:06] <mdke> is it a new account you need, or just the old password?
[05:06] <rob^> old password
[05:07] <rob^> have new gpg key though if thats needed again
[05:07] <mdke> ah
[05:07] <jeffsch> rob^: have you ever used esvn? 
[05:07] <mdke> send me the new patch if you want
[05:07] <jeffsch> if you have backups, the svn password is stored in the clear
[05:07] <jsgotangco> esvn saves the password in clear text
[05:07] <jeffsch> in esvnrc
[05:07] <rob^> jeffsch, I tried it, but find it easier just to use the command line
[05:08] <jeffsch> so if you can find the old esvnrc, you should be able to get the password from it
[05:08] <rob^> which file does it store it in?
[05:08] <rob^> under /home?
[05:08] <jsgotangco> .esvnrc
[05:08] <jeffsch> in $HOME/.qt/esvnrc
[05:08] <jsgotangco> .qt rather
[05:09] <rob^> hmm no qt
[05:10] <rob^> grr I didn't copy it to the new drive
[05:10] <rob^> its a long shot
[05:10] <jsgotangco> don't you backup your home with the hidden files
[05:11] <rob^> not all of them
[05:11] <jsgotangco> doh
[05:12] <rob^> ok got the dvd, lets see
[05:13] <rob^> nup, its goneske
[05:14] <rob^> I have what I think is my old pub key
[05:16] <rob^> nope, no good, sorry
[05:19] <rob^> heh
[05:21] <rob^> ah crud, the credits etc page is all screwed up in yelp
[05:22] <jeffsch> yelp sucks man. it's the worst help viewer on the planet
[05:22] <rob^> yeah not wrong
[05:22] <jeffsch> it's why we wanted to release html in the first place
[05:22] <rob^> but we need to release xml
[05:22] <rob^> maybe ubuntu need to sponsor someone to fix it
[05:23] <jeffsch> if we release xml, yelp screws it up
[05:23] <jsgotangco> yelp is slooowwwww
[05:23] <jeffsch> if we release html, yelp screws it up
[05:23] <jeffsch> we can't win
[05:23] <rob^> what other choices do we have?
[05:23] <jeffsch> we can only do the "least worst"
[05:23] <rob^> is there a better help viewer somewhere?
[05:23] <mdke> too late for that
[05:23] <mdke> gnome uses yelp
[05:24] <rob^> yes
[05:24] <rob^> well what do the gnome docers do with it?
[05:24] <mdke> rob^, did you send the fix for the faqguide?
[05:24] <rob^> they must hate it also?
[05:24] <jsgotangco> yelp is the gnome help viewer.
[05:24] <jsgotangco> ...
[05:24] <rob^> mdke, the credits/licence page needs fixing
[05:24] <jbailey> mdke: Do you have the bug number for the firefox start page?  I can't fnd it in bugzilla.
[05:25] <mpt> rob^/mdke: This is all looking very familiar :-)
[05:25] <mdke> jbailey, #3985
[05:25] <mdke> mpt, yeah
[05:25] <jbailey> Oh, is it a malone bug?
[05:25] <jsgotangco> mpt: deja vu 6 months ago
[05:25] <rob^> heh
[05:25] <mdke> jbailey, nope bugzilla
[05:26] <jsgotangco> bugzilla reset?
[05:26] <mdke> it's an old bug
[05:27] <mdke> maybe there are others too
[05:28] <jbailey> I've assigned it to me now.
[05:28] <mdke> cool
[05:29] <jsgotangco> try looking for old unresloved bugs under enrico
[05:29] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[05:29] <jsgotangco> we changed that already
[05:30] <jeffsch> ok gotta run. cya's later
[05:30] <jbailey> Hmm, mdz had assigned it to iwj this morning for some reason.
[05:31] <jbailey> Ah well, it's assigned to me now. =)
[05:33] <jsgotangco> hey jbailey also did Ubuntu Marketplace tee hee
[05:34] <mdke> it was assigned to iwj because he's the ff maintainer i think
[05:35] <jsgotangco> maybe i should have myself listed in marketplace
[05:36] <jsgotangco> wtf
[05:37] <jsgotangco> WhyIDontUbuntu ?
[05:37] <jsgotangco> ahh
[05:37] <jsgotangco> its a good cause
[05:39] <rob^> hmm
[05:39] <rob^> yelp is slow at rendering now for me
[05:39] <jsgotangco> TOLD YA
[05:39] <rob^> hehe
[05:40] <rob^> bloody dodgy piece of sw
[05:41] <jsgotangco> well Shaun McCance is actually a good guy
[05:41] <jsgotangco> that badly needs help
[05:41] <jsgotangco> IMO
[05:41] <rob^> hehe
[05:41] <rob^> is it me or does the front page of the faq look kind of bland in yelp?
[05:41] <jsgotangco> he called for help for Gnome 2.12 user guide a few days ago
[05:41] <rob^> he should get the viewer fixed first :P
[05:42] <jsgotangco> its actually updated
[05:42] <rob^> can we alter the css for yelp at all?
[05:43] <jsgotangco> with some work yes
[05:43] <jsgotangco> i did try it a few months ago
[05:43] <rob^> how hard is it?
[05:43] <jsgotangco> even actually updating the whole front page
[05:43] <jsgotangco> rob^: you know how scrollkeeper works?
[05:43] <rob^> no idea
[05:44] <jsgotangco> start there ;)
[05:44] <rob^> can we somehow get the css that was created for html and stick it in yelp?
[05:44] <jsgotangco> no
[05:44] <rob^> fark
[05:44] <jsgotangco> its not just like that
[05:44] <rob^> what a crap piece of sw
[05:44] <jsgotangco> actually its not
[05:44] <jsgotangco> its actually nice
[05:45] <jsgotangco> it just needs severe tweaking on the transformation
[05:45] <jsgotangco> its actually much better than khelpcenter imo
[05:45] <rob^> yay I love how it renders <literallayout> all messed up!
[05:46] <jsgotangco> me and sean used to call work in yelp as "dumbing down"
[05:47] <jsgotangco> but i got interested on it on finding workarounds
[05:47] <jsgotangco> because of its docbook limitations
[05:47] <rob^> yeah I'm doing that now
[05:47] <jsgotangco> try doing a footnote, its going to be a pain :)
[05:48] <rob^> not going to bother
[05:48] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:49] <jsgotangco> that's why i always code with yelp as least common denominator
[05:49] <jsgotangco> if it doesnt look good in yelp, its no good
[05:49] <rob^> it shouldn't be that way
[05:49] <jsgotangco> yelp is more like a book viewer if you notice
[06:04] <rob^> ok, one question then I will have the final xml files ready for translation and everything:
[06:05] <rob^> can we make the front page of the faq guide look nicer?
[06:05] <jsgotangco> how did you fix the structure
[06:05] <jsgotangco> i don't have my svn in this box
[06:06] <jsgotangco> generally the first page will show the TOC and an intro text if you included one
[06:06] <rob^> well, we moved thing like rev history, authors etc to another page
[06:06] <rob^> at the moment its an ugly toc and thats it
[06:06] <jsgotangco> you put that on your first page
[06:06] <jsgotangco> yelp puts that in a separate page
[06:07] <jsgotangco> like i said, yelp is more of a book viewer
[06:08] <rob^> eg
[06:08] <rob^>         <abstract>
[06:08] <rob^>             <para>This document is a compilation of questions that are commonly
[06:08] <rob^>                 asked by users who are new to Ubuntu and the
[06:08] <rob^>                 answers to these questions.</para>
[06:08] <rob^>         </abstract>
[06:08] <rob^> doesn't appear on the first page
[06:09] <rob^> publisher and author should probably too
[06:09] <rob^> ah i see
[06:09] <jsgotangco> it goes in a preface page
[06:09] <jsgotangco> "About this document"
[06:10] <jsgotangco> you can make workaround by imitating the way gnome docs do it
[06:10] <jsgotangco> usually at the end
[06:10] <jsgotangco> refer to a standard gnome doc
[06:18] <rob^> hmm looks like there is nothing I can do about it
[06:20] <rob^> ok looks like I am done
[06:23] <mdke> how are we looking?
[06:24] <rob^> Just want to change one last thing, then we are done
[06:24] <mdke> great
[06:24] <mdke> so we can _really_ freeze strings?
[06:24] <rob^> hehe yeah
[06:24] <mdke> phew
[06:24] <mdke> good work
[06:30] <jsgotangco> wonder if sean still looks at chat logs
[06:31] <rob^> ?
[06:31] <jsgotangco> just a thought
[06:31] <mdke> hmm
[06:31] <mdke> we need to look over the new about-ubuntu
[06:31] <mdke> i've seen a typo already
[06:32] <jsgotangco> can you generate a page preview
[06:32] <mdke> open it with yelp?
[06:32] <jsgotangco> no i want to see it in a browser
[06:33] <jsgotangco> im staying in another house for a while, i didnt bring my laptop with svn
[06:33] <mdke> ok
[06:33] <jsgotangco> i'd like to see sabdfl's changes
[06:35] <jsgotangco> (i've already optimized those tags for yelp even before)
[06:36] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/about-ubuntu/C/
[06:37] <mdke> Warning: image file '../../images/C/UbuntuLogo.png' not found.
[06:37] <rob^> how can I get the abstract to show up somewhere?
[06:37] <mdke> what is that one about?
[06:37] <jsgotangco> it actually reads nicely now
[06:37] <jsgotangco> oh crap
[06:38] <jsgotangco> i forgot to add that to svn
[06:38] <jsgotangco> it didnt upload then
[06:38] <jsgotangco> you can just get corey's ubuntu logo in quicktour and rename it
[06:38] <jsgotangco> its the same logo anyways
[06:39] <jsgotangco> hmm
[06:39] <jsgotangco> i like the way he re-structed the pgae
[06:39] <rob^> ok, the front page is kind of boring (blame yelp), but its done. 
[06:40] <rob^> quote milhouse "It took seven 
[06:40] <rob^> hours, but we did it. It's done! "
[06:40] <rob^> (actually it took longer then that the last two nights)
[06:41] <jsgotangco> add a logo or something to make the frontpage look a bit brighter
[06:41] <rob^> yes.. but we've got to shoot it from different angles, again and again and again!
[06:42] <mdke> where can I get that logo that about-ubuntu needs?
[06:42] <mdke> i've fixed the typos i can see
[06:43] <jsgotangco> mdke: look at the quicktour folder, there's a png, copy it and rename
[06:43] <jsgotangco> its the same logo
[06:43] <mdke> ok
[06:43] <jsgotangco> thanks i should kick myself for not bringing my unit
[06:44] <mdke> i don't think it has committed
[06:45] <mdke> i did svn add on it but i don't think it uploaded
[06:45] <mdke> i got:
[06:45] <mdke> A  (bin)  ../../images/C/UbuntuLogo.png
[06:45] <mdke> oh i get it
[06:45] <mdke> sorry
[06:46] <mdke> done
[06:46] <jsgotangco> thanks
[06:46] <jsgotangco> although its strange
[06:46] <rob^> ok, I just sent the diffs to the mailing list
[06:46] <jsgotangco> the html output doesn't get the image either
[06:46] <jsgotangco> something must be wrong
[06:46] <mdke> it should get it now
[06:47] <rob^> ah shit
[06:47] <rob^> its not vailidating again
[06:47] <mdke> those diffs will not be on my latest revision anyhow :(
[06:48] <rob^> ?
[06:48] <mdke> 1768 is latest
[06:48] <rob^> grr
[06:49] <mdke> soz
[06:49] <mdke> still, i should be able to apply the patches anyway, it's crazy that I can't
[06:50] <jsgotangco> NICE!
[06:50] <mdke> we need drugs
[06:50] <rob^> LOVE!
[06:50] <rob^> COKE!
[06:50] <rob^> GRRR!
[06:51] <jsgotangco> ARGH!
[06:51] <jsgotangco> GYAH!
[06:51] <mdke> rob^, just do one big patch
[06:51] <rob^> wont svn up remove all my changes?
[06:51] <rob^> (I have a script that does individual ones)
[06:52] <mdke> argh
[06:52] <mdke> i don't think it should but I'm not 100%
[06:53] <mdke> jsgotangco, about-ubuntu now looks like this in yelp: http://www.mdke.org/About.png
[06:53] <mdke> shit
[06:53] <mdke> don't click
[06:53] <mdke> http://mdke.mine.nu/about.png
[06:54] <jsgotangco> yuck
[06:54] <mdke> yep
[06:54] <jsgotangco> is Welcome to Ubuntu a subtitle?
[06:55] <mdke> yes
[06:55] <mdke>     <title>
[06:55] <mdke>         <inlinemediaobject>
[06:55] <mdke>             <imageobject>
[06:55] <mdke>                 <imagedata fileref="../../images/&language;/UbuntuLogo.png" for$
[06:55] <mdke>             </imageobject>
[06:55] <mdke>         </inlinemediaobject>
[06:55] <mdke>     Welcome to Ubuntu
[06:55] <mdke>     </title>
[06:55] <jsgotangco> ahh
[06:55] <jsgotangco> that's the problem
[06:55] <jsgotangco> remove Welcome to ubuntu
[06:55] <mdke> ok
[06:56] <jsgotangco> under <title>, make a <subtitle> pair
[06:56] <mdke> put it in a separate para?
[06:56] <jsgotangco> no
[06:56] <mdke> ok
[06:56] <jsgotangco> Yelp renders <subtitle> differently
[06:56] <mdke> ok that works better
[06:57] <mdke> i have done so many commits today
[06:57] <rob^> ok
[06:57] <rob^> mine now validates
[06:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:57] <jsgotangco> i've already mastered the art of dumbed down docbook in yelp
[06:57] <rob^> now are we gonna fix this revision problem?
[06:57] <mdke> rob^, i can confirm that svn up doesn't lose your changes
[06:57] <mdke> lemme do one last commit
[06:57] <rob^> i'm gonna back up just in case
[06:57] <jsgotangco> mdke: <subtitle> usually renders in italics
[06:57] <rob^> k
[06:58] <mdke> great thanks jsgotangco 
[06:58] <mdke> committed
[06:59] <mdke> did we decide what docs I am making pots for, apart from au and faq
[06:59] <jsgotangco> that's the only one
[06:59] <jsgotangco> kubuntu is sooo spotty
[06:59] <jsgotangco> but i manage to get some time from Riddell
[07:00] <jsgotangco> did anyone hear from jjesse?
[07:00] <mdke> about-kubuntu?
[07:00] <jsgotangco> sure look at it
[07:00] <jsgotangco> you might end up editing it
[07:01] <rob^> ok, try that patch
[07:01] <mdke> k
[07:03] <rob^> w00t! I just got my svn password!
[07:03] <rob^> yay
[07:03] <rob^> shall I just commit?
[07:03] <mdke> yeah
[07:03] <mdke> i haven't got the email yet
[07:05] <rob^> ok done
[07:05] <rob^> that seemed to work
[07:05] <jsgotangco> rob^: 3am?
[07:05] <mdke> yep
[07:05] <mdke> nice one rob^ 
[07:06] <rob^> jsgotangco, yes, it is here
[07:06] <jsgotangco> i felt like i lost energy
[07:06] <jsgotangco> ahh dont mind me
[07:06] <mdke> hope that you get things sorted out mate
[07:06] <rob^> I think I'm going to be late to the installfest tomorrow
[07:07] <jsgotangco> wonder how pissed corey will be
[07:07] <rob^> catching up on sleep
[07:07] <mdke> lol
[07:07] <rob^> heh
[07:07] <mdke> night rob^ 
[07:07] <rob^> pretty, I'd say
[07:08] <jsgotangco> i'll probably roam around the woods after sfd
[07:08] <rob^> we have an all day installfest at the uni
[07:08] <rob^> crazy if you ask me, should have just made it 10-2 or something
[07:08] <jsgotangco> im supposed to speak to a group of students
[07:08] <mdke> here there is nothing happening
[07:08] <jsgotangco> but hmmm
[07:09] <jsgotangco> i suddenly feel like backing out
[07:09] <rob^> yeah, I got to speak with uni students
[07:09] <rob^> ah crap
[07:09] <rob^> I forgot to video the ubuntu install
[07:09] <rob^> dam it
[07:09] <rob^> anyone know when I could get a video of it?
[07:11] <rob^> ah fudge it
[07:11] <rob^> who cares
[07:11] <mdke> lol
[07:11] <rob^> night mdke, jsgotangco 
[07:11] <jsgotangco> night mate
[07:11] <mdke> sleep well!
[07:11] <mdke> thanks
[07:11] <jsgotangco> rob^: good job
[07:12] <rob^> thanks
[07:12] <rob^> cyas
[07:12] <jsgotangco> the faqguide is a good foundation doc that can be easily updated
[07:14] <mdke> ok i've emailed the list
[07:14] <mdke> if I got anything wrong, feel free to reply
[07:15] <jsgotangco> checking
[07:16] <jsgotangco> no email yet
[07:16] <mdke> got the address wrong
[07:16] <mdke> hang on
[07:17] <mdke> resent
[07:19] <mdke> -> gone
[07:20] <jsgotangco> wow in just a few hours, a ton of my work went up into smoke
[07:22] <jsgotangco> oh well
[07:38] <jbailey> Woot, got me svn write access.
[07:40] <jsgotangco> ahh
[07:40] <jbailey> For now, any objection to me doing a new branch for what's going into breezy?
[07:40] <jsgotangco> elmo got rob^'s account working again too
[07:40] <jsgotangco> feel free
[07:40] <jbailey> Then truck can be the re-arrange ground for everything else.
[07:41] <jbailey> What's branches/froud ?
[07:41] <jsgotangco> oh
[07:41] <jsgotangco> that's sean's branch before
[07:41] <jsgotangco> he doesn't come in anymore
[07:42] <jsgotangco> he used to be the docbook/svn guru
[07:42] <jbailey> svn cp https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk /repos/branches/breezy
[07:43] <jbailey> And then I'll mv things around until they're like we want them to be in the package?
[07:44] <jsgotangco> if it makes things easier, feel free
[07:44] <jbailey> Well, I just don't want to run over anything that hasn't been committed yet and such.
[07:44] <jsgotangco> there's not much to commit
[07:44] <jbailey> And I think that rearranging the trunk stuff will probably be invasive enough that it's best to just make it clear what's going into breezy, versus what's there going forward.
[07:45] <jbailey> But if you'd like me to do this a different way, I've no objections. =)
[07:45] <jsgotangco> i actually have no good idea at this point on how to do it
[08:09] <jsgotangco> ahh fudge i didnt notice it was already 2am
[08:11] <jsgotangco> good night anways
[08:24] <mdke> jbailey, can you email to the list to explain you've done that?
[08:24] <jbailey> mdke: Sure.
[08:24] <jbailey> ubuntu-docs@l.u.c?
[08:24] <mdke> great
[08:24] <mdke> ubuntu-doc no "s"
[08:25] <jbailey> Cool.
[08:25] <jbailey> I should subscribe to that, too.
[08:25] <jbailey> *sigh*
[08:25] <mdke> jbailey, will you be working in that branch now?
[08:25] <jbailey> I hate email lists. =)
[08:25] <mdke> filter it into a folder and look at it when you need it :D
[08:26] <jbailey> Yes, but the question is do you want to work in that branch directly for any translation updates, or should I pull them from the trunk.
[08:26] <mdke> yeah that was what I was gonna say
[08:26] <mdke> the translations you find in trunk now are for hoary
[08:26] <jbailey> Right.
[08:26] <jbailey> I tend to think that the right way to do it is to branch when you freeze the docs.
[08:26] <mdke> so any new translations or updates to the (frozen) documentation should be to branch I guess 
[08:27] <jbailey> Then translations all go onto the branch and the trunk can then get invasive changes without worries.
[08:27] <mdke> yeah i agree
[08:27] <jbailey> I'll post the suggestion to the list, and see how hard I get flamed. =)
[08:27] <mdke> you've done this before ;)
[08:27] <jbailey> Oh, a few times. ;)
[08:28] <mdke> ok let me get these pot files into rosetta
[08:29] <jbailey> docbook can be reduced to pot files?
[08:29] <jbailey> Cool.
[08:30] <mdke> yeah we're using gnome-doc-utils
[08:30] <mdke> or rather, i decided that yesterday
[08:31] <jbailey> Ahahah
[08:31] <mdke> before we used a kde util
[08:31] <jbailey> So how do we get the stuff out of rosetta?
[08:31] <mdke> jbailey, manually
[08:31] <mdke> we download the finished po files
[08:31] <jbailey> Hmm.
[08:32] <jbailey> Too bad, it would be nice to have some way for those to continue to get updated with the rest of the langpacks.
[08:32] <mdke> well...
[08:32] <mdke> no chance most translations will be finished for breezy IMO
[08:32] <mdke> so updates are the way forward
[08:32] <mdke> again, manually
[08:32] <mdke> unless you can figure out a way with pitti to do it automatically
[08:38] <mdke> afk
[10:23] <mdke> jbailey, here?
[10:23] <jbailey> mdke: yup
[10:23] <mdke> jbailey, someone spotted a typo in the about-ubuntu, where is it found in branch so I can fix it?
[10:24] <mdke> if that is possible...
[10:25] <mdke> jbailey, it doesn't seem to be there
[10:26] <jbailey> All I've done the the cp from the truck so far.  Had it been committed by that point?
[10:27] <mdke> tbh i can't see any of the docs in there
[10:27] <mdke> find doesn't show any about-ubuntu.xml
[10:27] <mdke> can't see the faqguide either
[10:28] <mdke> so I'll fix it in trunk
[10:29] <mdke> jbailey, is that ok?
[10:29] <jbailey> ./gnome/aboutubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml
[10:30] <mdke> i can't see it
[10:30] <mdke> ah
[10:30] <mdke> i haven't checked the whole thing out yet
[10:30] <mdke> it didn't download all of it >_<
[10:30] <jbailey> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/gnome/aboutubuntu/C/
[10:30] <jbailey> Ah, that would do it. =)
[10:30] <mdke> jbailey, ok so is it acceptable to fix the typo in both?
[10:30] <jbailey> I just used svn swtich to move over.
[10:31] <jbailey> You're welcome to just do it in the branch, I think, and then we can resync once more from the branch to the trunk when whatever rearrangements have been made.
[10:31] <mdke> ok
[10:31] <jbailey> That way you're not chasing things all over the place.
[10:32] <mdke> i'll just wait for it to download...
[10:32] <mdke> thanks jbailey 
[10:32] <jbailey> Glad to help.
[10:32] <mdke> jbailey, what did you think about the translation updates btw?
[10:32] <mdke> as per our chat above
[10:33] <jbailey> I think that there needs to be a better way.
[10:33] <mdke> if you can think of a way to make it happen, that would be really cool
[10:34] <jbailey> I'm all about people learning what they want, but I hate to see repetitive synchronisation tasks taken on if there's a way to automate them.
[10:34] <mdke> i agree
[10:35] <mdke> dunno how to do it though
[10:37] <jbailey> Well...
[10:37] <jbailey> The trick is probably to teach it about XML, honestly.
[10:38] <jbailey> Or to have some magic capture thing that generates the xml from the pofile based on a structure and register that with the langpack generator.
[10:38] <jbailey> All sorts of joyous things that are unlikely to be possible for breezy, but I'll talk to Martin this weekend or Monday to find out.
[10:39] <mdke> cool thanks
[10:42] <mdke> ok fixed that typo
[10:56] <mdke> ajmitch, around?
[10:58] <jbailey> Might be a touch early for him on a Sat morning.
[10:59] <mdke> what time zone is he?