/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/09/14/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== mitsuhiko [n=blackbir@213.33.95.56] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089F70F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== panickedthumb [n=travis@rad-va-20-pc-163.cablenet-va.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
jbaileyw/in 3204:10
=== robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dholbach [i=foobar@dyn228-075.dsl.ligado.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dholbach [i=foobar@dyn228-075.dsl.ligado.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]
=== mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ksl403-uva-132.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== magnon [n=magnon@photogeeks/magnon] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== doko_ [n=doko@dsl-084-059-088-248.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== praetorian [n=praetori@unaffiliated/praetorian] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ksl403-uva-132.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== magnon [n=magnon@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ksl403-uva-132.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089D2AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089FB08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@info1-171.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
jbaileyfoo03:33
=== jbailey [n=jbailey@128.100.103.99] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== jbailey [n=jbailey@128.100.103.99] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
ograbar ?03:35
=== ajmitch nods
ajmitchogra: don't forget baz03:35
jbaileySounds like a great idea03:35
ograheh03:35
ajmitchFri Sep  9 13:35:41 UTC 200503:35
ajmitchoops03:35
ajmitch:)03:35
jbaileyThe problem is that my irssi seems to have opened a query window to the channel separate from my channel window.03:35
ajmitchhow odd03:35
jbaileyBut soon I will be rid of this thing again.03:35
ajmitchso meeting is in ~25min03:36
jbaileyIt looks like xmove might have what I want. =)03:36
=== ajmitch should go & drown his sorrows instead :)
=== lamont [n=lamont@15.238.5.62] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
jsgotangcoi think i had too much alcohol03:54
rob^hmm beer03:55
jjessemmmm beer03:55
rob^knocked a few back myself earlier03:56
jbaileyI haven't.  But it's 10am, and now's probably not the right time to start.03:56
=== jbailey looks at the bottle of maple whiskey.
jbaileyYeah, still probably better not to. ;)03:57
ajmitchsounds tasty though03:58
rob^dunno, when I was younger we had a early morning (read 11am) drink as a "hangover cure"03:59
jsgotangcoalrigntt03:59
jjessejbailey:  mix crown royal and mrs. butterworth03:59
rob^shall we get this show on the road?03:59
jsgotangcoare we starting or are we being overruled atm03:59
jbaileyoverruled how?03:59
rob^by what?03:59
jbaileyOr do you mean by the drinking discussion?.04:00
rob^haha04:00
jsgotangcoheh04:00
jsgotangcoalright04:00
jsgotangcohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda04:00
jsgotangcowe have 6 points to discuss04:00
jsgotangcohmm04:00
jsgotangcomake that 504:00
rob^should be fun :)04:00
rob^?04:00
jsgotangcowho's here04:00
rob^which one are we killing?04:00
=== jsgotangco is JeromeGotangco
=== rob^ RobertStoffers
=== jbailey JeffBailey
=== dholbach [i=foobar@dyn228-075.dsl.ligado.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
jsgotangcojust 3?04:01
jbaileymdke: *poke*04:01
=== sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== _jeff [n=jeffsch@fatwire-201-134.uniserve.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdflhi all04:02
ajmitchhi04:02
jsgotangcohi sabdfl04:02
mdkemattheweast04:02
=== jsgotangco is preparing his pick axe
rob^hi sabdfl 04:02
=== sabdfl puts on teflon
jsgotangcoalright seems like a good presence04:02
rob^fire away jsgotangco 04:02
jbaileyIs someone going to post a summary to -devel after?04:02
jsgotangco1. Packaging/Format changes04:02
rob^jbailey, might be a good idea04:03
jsgotangcojbailey: fire away04:03
jbaileyLovely.  It seems that we discovered this morning that the HTML format isn't suitable for the translators.04:03
jbaileyLuckily for us, the source format, docbook, is.04:03
jbaileySo the upshot is that we need to go back to that style and tie that into yelp instead.04:04
jsgotangco(it always has been)04:04
=== jsgotangco dies
jbaileyErr.04:04
jbaileyMedical emergency?04:04
rob^well I have observed that qanda tags that the faq guide uses now work properly in yelp04:04
rob^with out crashing etc either04:04
jbaileyCool.04:04
jsgotangcorob^: breezy yelp?04:04
rob^mdke is now removing the kde profile04:04
mdkei'm done04:05
mdke*pants*04:05
jbaileySo, since I'm the uploader I'll work with mdke and get that in as soon as the lockdown is finished.04:05
rob^jsgotangco, The FAQ Guide, which is breezy help04:05
mdkejbailey, i know nothing about packaging sadly04:05
jsgotangcorob^: i mean did you test it in yelp in breezy04:05
rob^jsgotangco, yes04:05
jbaileymdke: Ah, didn't you do the packaging that I worked from?04:05
mdkejbailey, nope sorry04:05
rob^jsgotangco, I'm looking at it now04:05
jbaileyMy mistake, I'll look it up.04:05
jbaileyPackaging is something I do in my sleep, so no big deal.04:05
jsgotangcook so we're going back to docbook...04:06
mdkejbailey, but anyone in #ubuntu-docs can help with things04:06
jbaileyMy biggest concern at this point is divergeance between the package and the svn tree, since I still don't have write access.04:06
jsgotangcojbailey: i'll give you my account04:06
mdkejbailey, perhaps elmo can be poked?04:06
rob^mdke, good luck :)04:06
jbaileyjsgotangco: I really phear that ide.04:06
jbailey+a04:06
jsgotangcono need to poke i'll just give him my account04:06
jbaileyIt's just *so* the wrong answer.04:06
jsgotangcook04:07
jsgotangcothe svn tree is sooo unfriendly in packaging04:07
jbaileyjsgotangco: Are you going to be on again tonight?  I'll try to ask elmo directly online today.04:07
jsgotangcoits a pain04:07
rob^mdke, have you commited?04:07
jbaileytonight, meaning your tomorrow morning. =)04:07
mdkerob^, yeah04:07
rob^k checking now04:07
jsgotangcojbailey: i'll be out early for SFD04:08
jsgotangcoif i get wifi04:08
jbaileydict SFD?04:08
rob^jsgotangco, same, 8am start04:08
jsgotangcook wait a bit04:08
jsgotangcowe're going too far04:08
rob^ah crap, the Makefile just segfaulted04:08
Mithrandirjbailey: software freedom day.04:08
jsgotangcoso what's the thing with Packaging/Format changes04:08
jsgotangcorevert to XML again?04:08
rob^err04:09
jbaileyjsgotangco: Well, this is realted in that I want to commit the packaging bits to SVN as we go.04:09
jbaileyBut yes, revert to XML again.04:09
jbaileyUpload when lockdown is removed.04:09
sabdfla couple of questions04:09
jsgotangcooh well04:09
jsgotangcosabdfl: shoot04:09
mdkesabdfl, on the about-ubuntu doc, see my post in -devel04:09
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-9-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
jsgotangcogood thing im kinda drunk04:10
mdkelol04:10
sabdflso, with xml, do we get the crappy CSS that yelp supports?04:10
sabdflbecause the docs could look a lot better, and yelp is no help04:11
jsgotangcoyelp has its own stylesheets yes 04:11
rob^hmm mdke looks like your sed regex didn't work as you expected04:11
rob^its left heaps of crud in the files04:11
sabdflsecond. i can't remember. so about the formatting, can we do no better than yelp currently?04:11
mdkerob^, no way, i just used gedit's replace04:11
jsgotangcohmmmm04:11
jsgotangcoi've been playing around with yelp lately04:12
rob^mdke, its got "<<<<<<< .mine" all through it04:12
jsgotangcothe stylesheets alone are so slow....04:12
rob^and other crud04:12
jsgotangcozz04:12
mdkerob^, can you give me an example?04:12
jsgotangcoi've seen docs in breezy yelp that render more than  5 secs.04:12
jbaileyrob^: Local merge issues?  Try rm'ing the file and svn up'ing?04:12
jeffschif we use xml in yelp, then we use yelp's css04:13
rob^ok04:13
mdkeyeah i think jbailey is right04:13
jeffschthe only way around that is html04:13
mdkeand html breaks translations04:13
jsgotangcolike i said in my emails ealier, yelp today is slower than ever04:13
jeffschmdke: how?04:13
rob^jsgotangco, not for me it isn't04:13
jeffschthe po files are created from the xml04:13
mdkejeffsch, because they can't get yelp to display the default locale html file 04:13
mdkeonly the english one04:13
mdkeseb128 can explain better04:14
jsgotangcorob^: strange i have 1gb of ram04:14
rob^I have 512 and several things including ff open04:14
mdkejeffsch, yeah it's not the po files, but the final html files that are the problem04:14
jbaileymdke, seb128: Is there the possibility of hacking it for breezy+1 to support .LANG.html like apache does for auto selection, or do you think it would be too hard?04:15
jsgotangcoi don't really mind yelp it's what we have....html is a workaround, but has navigation issues....04:15
mdkejbailey, over my head I'm afraid04:15
jeffschso in addition to being a rotten help viewer, yelp is also a rotten html viewer04:15
seb128mdke: the issue is not to display the file. But yelp work with/index xml files04:16
jsgotangcowhen yelp renders html it takes over the whole screen04:16
jsgotangcoand with a doc like the faqguide, you'll need to maximize the screen...04:16
jsgotangcoi've tested it 3 days ago...04:17
jsgotangcothat's why my concern was the css04:17
mdkeanyway the docs should be ok to ship with xml04:17
jsgotangcoi really hated the result04:17
mdkefor the firefox homepage we'll need html though04:17
jsgotangcothat's not a problem04:17
jsgotangcowe just dump everyting in /usr/share/doc04:17
jbaileymdke: Does the doc-team maintain that?  It's from the ubuntu-artwork package.04:17
jsgotangcothe omf file should do the trick for yelp04:18
mdkejbailey, yes, firefox needs to be changed to point to the ubuntu-docs version04:18
jsgotangco(editing the main yelp frontpage is another story)04:18
mdkejbailey, bug is open04:18
jbaileymdke: 'k.  /me TODOs that.04:18
jsgotangcok are we done with this topic?04:18
mdkei think so04:18
jsgotangcowe go back to xml04:18
=== jsgotangco sheeshh
mdkebest thing is if jbailey works with seb128 to make sure it will work04:19
mdkebecause i don't understand anything here04:19
jsgotangcook FAQ Guide Profile changes04:19
=== mitsuhiko [n=blackbir@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
rob^ok04:19
jsgotangcoseems it is being done atm04:19
rob^mdke and myself have started it04:19
mdkeyes04:19
mdkeit's done except for fixing a weird validation problem that we can't figure out04:20
rob^we are removing the kde profile from the faq guide, this can be done as a different doc later04:20
jsgotangcongghh04:20
jbaileyjsgotangco: Can we recap the TODOs from that?  Package upload with XML, change Firefox/Ephy to use ubuntu-docs start page.  Was there anything else as an action action item?04:20
rob^there is also the issue with the archs04:20
mdkejbailey, the aboutubuntu doc needs to be there as html too, for firefox04:20
jsgotangcojbailey: that's it atm...the CSS for aboutubuntu can be done04:20
jbailey'k thanks.04:21
jsgotangcoi've been playing around the CSS04:21
rob^there is no difference between the i386, amd64 and ppc archs for the FAQ Guide04:21
rob^this could all be the same package04:21
rob^but in future there may most likely be differences04:22
jsgotangcook go on i'm getting something to drink04:22
rob^however none of this was profiled04:22
rob^so which way do we go?04:22
mdkejbailey, the other thing was, i noticed that the address for the docs was a bit odd, it has both /en/ and /C/ in it, is that intentional?04:22
jbaileymdke: I took it from the package build.04:23
mdkehmm04:23
jbaileymdke: I'll ask in the other channel, I don't think that needs meeting time.04:23
mdkeagain seb128 can probably tell you which is right04:23
jeffschC is the locale that C language programs default to04:24
jeffschwe really should be using en instead04:24
jsgotangcoC the programmiongg lnguage?04:24
mdkehaving both means its difficult to figure out where to put the translations04:24
jsgotangcoshie04:24
jsgotangcono it shouldnt be04:25
jsgotangcolook at  hoary04:25
jbaileyThe C locale is just the default on a Posix system.  It's traditionally english and uses the ASCII character set.04:25
jsgotangcoits all in one folder04:25
jsgotangcoC, tl, xh, et...04:25
jsgotangcoexcedpt that every omf points to a different folder04:25
jeffschwe're stuck with C for now, switching to en is a big job and should be left for after breezy release04:25
jsgotangcoalthough en is what docbook/xslt recognizes04:26
jsgotangcoso to recap FAQ Guide is being de-profiled04:26
mdkejeffsch, my point is that the docs are in /usr/share/docs/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C/ now, are both en and C needed? if so, where do the translations go?04:26
jsgotangcoi'm loving every minute04:26
rob^jsgotangco, yep, to use xml we have to04:27
jsgotangcobloody hell its like june all over again04:27
jsgotangcoi guess there's no string freeze atm04:27
rob^its a shame jdub and others are not here to explain it better04:28
jsgotangcoi'm not bitter about it...it should really have been xml in the first placee...but its already september can't blame anyone right now04:28
mdkejsgotangco, well the strings can still be frozen, the packaging can be sorted out04:28
mdkei want to get the files to translation ASAP04:29
rob^argg who wrote that vaildation script anyway?04:29
mdkeno idea04:29
jsgotangcosure...im just too tired atm..i've been fixing those docs for weeks...04:29
jbaileyjsgotangco: Right.  Through Breezy+1 I want to do weekly uploads of the doc-team package, so that these things get caught earlier.04:29
rob^the output from it sucks!04:29
rob^it explains nothing04:30
mdkejbailey, that would be great04:30
jsgotangcowhoever is going to UBZ, please plan this in a BOF04:30
jsgotangcoPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE04:30
mdkeno one :(04:30
jbaileyjsgotangco: Which this?04:30
jbaileyJust so I can get it right, since I'll be there.04:30
jsgotangcothe whole doc process04:30
rob^yes, now one is going :(04:30
jbailey(Too many threads to follow at once here)04:30
rob^err no one that is04:30
jsgotangcoi've been working on docs since the start and its really frustrating to come up to like this in the end04:31
jsgotangcoi just felt the smackdown04:32
jsgotangcoi'll just work on my edubuntu stuff till then04:32
rob^there was an hour long discussion in #u-d about it with seb128, jdub etc04:32
jbaileyjsgotangco: =(  That's part of why I want to integrate everything from teh beginning of the release as opposed to the last moment of preview freeze.04:33
jbaileyjsgotangco: We'll catch so many things way earlier then.04:33
mdkeanyway, we can sort it out04:33
rob^yeah04:33
jsgotangcojbailey: growing pains indeed04:33
=== Deepy [i=Dreamcas@85.11.204.88] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
mdkewhat still needs to be sorted out?04:34
=== rob^ throws a book at this stupid vaildate script
jsgotangcoanyways, the rest in the agenda has no use for now04:34
Deepydamn, why can i never find the help when i need it :P04:34
Deepy#ubuntu unable to join channel (address is banned)04:34
jbaileyjsgotangco: I can also serve a bit as a coding bitch for docteam related things.04:34
jsgotangcothanks04:34
rob^jsgotangco, yes, your right04:35
jsgotangcoi'll probably just stay in the sides for now and just do the other stuff...04:35
rob^jsgotangco, don't get bitter about it04:35
jsgotangcorob^: can't do anything about it now04:36
jsgotangcono use either04:36
rob^we have to change a few things, but its not that much work04:36
jsgotangconp04:36
rob^and apart from the faq guide you have until next release to get things sorted04:36
rob^the quickguide doesn't matter, its only small and not finished yet anyway04:37
jsgotangcook so anything else04:37
jsgotangcothe rest of the agenda aren't worth discussing anymore04:37
rob^until we get this figured out, the rest of the agenda is pointless04:38
jbailey'kay.  Who will summarise this and sent to u-d?04:38
jsgotangcoi'm sorry i'm just not up to it atm04:38
jsgotangcosorry guys04:38
rob^I can if you want04:38
jsgotangcodo it04:38
jbaileyrob^: Would you mind?  I'd prefer it was someone who's been involved with the doc team longer than I have been. =)04:38
rob^ok04:39
jsgotangcoboy this day really sucks...04:39
mdkejsgotangco, don't worry04:39
mdkeget some green tea04:39
jsgotangcoalright then04:40
jsgotangcothanks guys04:40
rob^yeah, my wife says chocolate helps too04:40
jsgotangcolet's just meet again in 2 weeks04:40
jsgotangcorob^: i'm a diabetic04:40
=== jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation]
rob^jsgotangco, well. yeah, I guess not :)04:41
jsgotangcosorry if i can't be of any use right now 04:41
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@info1-171.info.com.ph] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
rob^wow he took that bad04:42
rob^considering mdke and myself are doing the work04:43
mdke:(04:43
rob^anyway..04:43
jeffschso are we done here then?04:45
rob^yep04:48
mdkelooks like it04:49
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@196.36.161.235] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Bye"]
=== jeffsch [n=jeffsch@fatwire-201-134.uniserve.ca] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["gone]
=== segfault [i=carlos@prognus.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
segfaultis the meeting over? :P05:15
rob^yeah05:15
rob^it was kind of a non event05:15
rob^we are shipping xml now..05:16
segfaultnice. is there any list of what needs to be translated?05:16
rob^it will pretty much only be the FAQ Guide05:16
rob^we are getting the .xml up to scratch right now05:17
=== mdke_ [n=matt@81-178-149-216.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
rob^yeah no good mdke 05:17
rob^err05:18
=== mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
segfaultare you guys uploading ubuntu-doc to breezy branch?05:21
rob^yeah, I think jbailey is doing it05:22
jbaileyYup05:22
jbaileyI'll probably get SVN access today, in which case I'll do a breezy branch for the packaging, and start helping with the cleanup of the trunk.05:23
segfaultshould i wait your upload to start translating? or i can get the sources from other place?05:24
=== mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
mdkesegfault, please wait until we upload to rosetta and announce on the translators lists05:24
segfaultno problem.05:25
mdke:)05:26
mdkeshouldn't be long now05:26
=== \sh [n=sh@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Simira [n=rpGirl@214.84-48-74.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jdub [n=jdub@218.214.67.227] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.34] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== dholbach [i=foobar@dyn228-075.dsl.ligado.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]
=== jeang [n=jeang@c6-dbn-237.absamail.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jeang [n=jeang@c6-dbn-237.absamail.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== Lathiat [i=lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== terrex [n=terrex@84-122-83-29.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== Seveas` [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== slomo [n=slomo@p5487F777.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== nkour [n=nkour@ppp48-adsl-231.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
\shhi nkour 09:02
sabdflhi guys, what's up?09:03
\shnkour: mark == sabdfl 09:03
sabdfl\sh said you were curious about rosetta?09:04
nkoursabdfl, hi man. congratulations on the trip to universe and on the successful management of Canonical09:04
sabdflwe're all on a trip through the universe ;-)09:04
nkourwhich supports Ubuntu09:04
nkoursabdfl, yes but you are lucky to have seen the opposite. 09:05
nkourof what we see09:05
sabdfland the support of Ubuntu is more a labour of fun than profit! hopefully we'll make it sustain itself someday09:05
\shok...i have to do some uploads ... I think you can do without me :) thx sabdfl for your time :)09:05
sabdflok, thanks \sh09:06
nkoursabdfl, we are just curious why LP is not free09:06
sabdflnkour, slomo: do you have specific questions i can help with?09:06
sabdflok09:06
sabdflLP has some commercial services - for companies that want to make derivatives of ubuntu09:06
slomosabdfl: i'm just here for listening :)09:06
nkoursorry to take your time for that it was not intented but \sh doesn't know :)09:06
sabdflwe haven't announced those because they are not ready09:06
sabdflbut essentially its one of the ways we will compete with sourceforge, redhat, progeny09:07
nkourok but you also work/test  closely with Ubuntu09:07
sabdflyes, ubuntu gets to use it all for free09:07
nkourand you grab POT/po for example ..09:07
nkourfor Rosetta09:07
sabdflyes09:07
nkourI'm not a laywer but what does GPL say?09:08
nkouron that*09:08
=== hawke [n=hawke@208.255.6.238] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
nkourI mean aren't po GPL work?09:08
sabdflGPL talks about redistribution09:08
sabdflso, if you take a GPL work, change it, and *share* it, you need to share the changes too09:09
sabdflin the case of LP, the code has never been released09:09
nkouryes I'm aware09:09
sabdflwell09:09
sabdflbits have been released, under the GPL09:09
nkouryes I"m aware of that too09:09
nkourI think it's very wise that all is GPL asap though.. I do not understand why it has to be ready to do so09:09
sabdflnkour: some parts of LP will be commercial services, for companies that produce their own versions of Linux09:10
nkourI always thought the power of FLOSS is that community can fix bugs, atm we have to ask a closed-circle of devs09:10
nkoursabdfl, so that disallows you to release the others part as GPL?09:10
sabdflno, we could certainly release parts of it09:10
sabdflbut they would not compile and run09:11
sabdfland that's no fun09:11
sabdflwe've said it will be released if canonical fails09:11
sabdfland over time, as we can componentise it, we will release the components that have no competitive advantage09:11
sabdfli would love to release the regitry TODAY09:11
sabdflbut it's deeply integrated, it would not be possible without lots of work09:11
sabdflto extract the registry from the rest of it09:12
nkoursabdfl, yes at least you could put a timeplan of when you will consider LP ready for GPL?09:12
sabdflit will take years09:12
sabdfland as we gpl some parts, we will develop new pieces09:12
nkoursabdfl, or else it sounds as an excuse to many ears [and you're clever I do not have to say that] 09:12
sabdflwell - we publish all of the data in launchpad09:13
sabdfltranslations come out as po files every day09:13
sabdflso nobody is dependent on it to get their data out09:13
nkouryes apparently you also test on Ubuntu so that makes integration with your ubuntu and non-free LP not very logical09:13
sabdfltest on ubuntu?09:14
=== dkirov [n=dkirov@cable-84-43-159-140.mnet.bg] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
nkourwell I hear that you plan to integrate a python module about auto adding LP support to a gtk app for example09:14
nkours/I hear/I saw/09:14
nkouryou not you personally09:14
sabdflyes, LP has api's and if we release code to talk to those API's it will be free code09:14
nkourbut that can be considered cool etc.. anyways at least page should say: "LP will not be GPL until years to come?"09:15
sabdflbut - bits of it are already gpl09:15
sabdflwe have released tons of code, and will continue to do so09:15
dkirovsabdfl, what stops you make it all GPL?09:15
sabdfldkirov: competition with progeny, redhat, novell09:16
nkour<sabdfl> nkour: some parts of LP will be commercial services, for companies that produce their own versions of Linux09:16
nkourdkirov, *09:16
dkirovcompetition in what way. Who will make more code on non GPL? I cannot get it09:16
sabdflit's like altavista, or google. they use free software, they release a lot of code, but they keep their core competitive advantage closed until it makes sense to them to release it09:17
sabdfldkirov: there are lots of companies making custom distros09:17
sabdflthere are free tools to do so09:17
sabdflwe will offer a web based service to automate a lot of it09:17
dkirovsabfl, with google it is different, because they don;t release this code09:17
sabdfland charge for that service09:17
dkirovthey use free software for their needs, which is one of the freedoms09:17
sabdfldkirov: they release some code, but not the code that they believe gives them a competitive advantage09:17
sabdflsame with lp09:17
sabdflwe release some code09:18
sabdflbut not the pieces that we consider to give us a competitive advantage09:18
sabdfli hope that this will allow us to get ubuntu to be sustainable, so it doesn't need ongoing interest from me - i can go back to space09:18
dkirovwhich is not GPL. I cannot understand how can you release code, which you plan to GPL and not make it GPL from the beginning09:18
sabdfland leave mdz & team to make ubuntu better, funding themselves09:18
sabdfldkirov: we have not released LP09:19
sabdflif you own code, you can release pieces of it09:19
dkirovso it means that there is no LP ?09:19
sabdfldkirov: ?09:20
sabdfllaunchpad.net09:20
sabdfl    def process(self, bug):09:20
sabdfl        # we are not creating, but we need to find the bug from the bug num09:20
sabdfl        return getUtility(IBugSet).get(bug)09:20
sabdfl        assert IBugLinkTarget.providedBy(self.context)09:20
sabdfl        return self.context.linkBug(content)09:20
sabdfloops09:20
dkirovsorry, is LP only web based. Someone told me that it comes on ubunto09:20
sabdfli just released some code ;-)09:20
sabdflyes, LP is web based09:20
sabdflwe have never released code under a non-free licence09:21
dkirovso, it is independent of the distro?09:21
sabdflyes09:21
sabdflit's not on the cd09:21
sabdflit's on our servers09:21
sabdflthere is a library in ubuntu that lets the ubuntu apps connect to launchpad, and that library is of course free too09:21
dkirovsabdfl, ok09:22
sabdflno worries. we will never introduce non-free apps to ubuntu09:22
nkoursabdfl, ok09:22
nkoursabdfl, do you plan to go back to space?09:22
sabdfli just turned down a request from a company that wants its app in main, and is non-free09:22
sabdfli told them multiverse09:22
sabdflnkour: yes, in time. if we make a success of ubuntu09:22
sabdflwould you like to come along?09:23
nkoursabdfl, well. who wouldn't? and I do not feel special so I take that as a nice gesture :)09:23
nkoursabdfl, what I never understood is this: you were born in a rich family?09:23
nkourand if yes, how come you got involved with GNU/Linux and not golf? :)09:24
nkoursabdfl, anyways I even read the fight about you or not you being the first african in space :)09:24
nkoursabdfl, keep it up man and I hope all goes well. thanks for your time09:25
sabdflthanks guys09:25
sabdflnkour: no, i was born into a middle class family09:25
sabdfli was very lucky during the 1990's, at the start of the .com boom09:25
sabdfli learned about SSL and PKI and crypto, and built a business called Thawte, from the garage09:25
sabdflvery lucky09:26
nkouroh yes that Thawte rings a bell :)09:26
=== Mez [n=Mez@cpc4-lich4-3-0-cust247.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sabdflstay well09:26
sabdflback to my code now09:26
nkoursabdfl, enjoy09:26
sabdflhey Mez09:26
sabdflsee you at UBZ!09:26
Mezevening mark, nice interview in PC Format ... I just read09:27
Mezsabdfl - was the see you at UBZ to me? or someone else?09:27
ograheh09:27
sabdflMez: you, dude09:27
Mezwoah...09:27
\shsabdfl: thx for your time...09:28
MezI've been away all week... didn't know I'd been sponsored09:28
\shMez: you don't read mail? :)09:28
MezI havent had net access for 2 weeks09:28
MezI'm just downloading my mail now09:28
=== sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
Mezdownliading mesage 269 of 222609:32
\shMez: wow09:32
Mezyeah09:33
Mezbeen away since last tuesday and look what happens09:33
Mezhmm..09:33
Mezpoop...09:33
MezI dont have a laptop09:33
=== nkour [n=nkour@ppp48-adsl-231.ath.forthnet.gr] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
Mezwhen/where were sponsorship things talked about09:36
Mezin public?09:36
Mezcause I wanna read logs09:36
\shMez: in private09:38
\shMez: but I just got a adrenalin kick this morning ;)09:38
Mez\sh: you're going too?09:39
Mezwell I need to wait for this email09:39
Mezlol09:39
Mezand find out what I need 09:39
\shMez: Yes ;) my flights are booked already :)09:39
Mezlol09:39
\shedward is fast..and claire is very helpfull I must say09:39
Mezhmm... if I'm being sponsored does that mean I have to pay then get reimbursed or something?09:39
Mez*shrugs*09:40
MezI'll wait for the email09:40
\shMez: you can adjust the flight dates..and you have to pay the days before or after...09:40
Mez??09:40
MezI have to pay what ?09:40
\shMez: ok..arrival is 29...(officially)09:40
\shso if you want to come on the 2609:40
\shyou have to pay 3 nights in some hotel09:41
\sh(which is very expensive in the holliday inn ;)))09:41
Mezah, wouldnt be able to afford that :P09:41
\shbut from the 29 to the pointed out date...it's sponsored09:41
\shI'm leaving on the 6th09:41
Mezwhat exactly is actually paid for by canonical ( or more to the point, what do I need to pay for)09:42
=== slomo [n=slomo@p5487F777.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["when]
\shflight, hotel, and breakfast? i don't know...the evening amusement with your motu dudes you have to pay...or I ,-)09:42
\shflight and hotel yes..breakfast is standard for the hotel...so ask claire ,-)09:43
Mez*shrugs*09:43
MezI'll wait for the email09:43
Mez(wish this net was faster)09:43
\shMez: but I will work some more nightshifts this month..so I can pay all the beer which I promised to mdz/elmo/daniels/etc.pp.09:43
=== Mez has only promised kamion a beer :D
Mezs/kamion/keybuk09:44
\shMez: ;)09:44
Mezbut, I wont be able to buy beer there anyways09:45
\shMez: we will find a solution09:46
=== Mez is a lil too young
=== LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-010-203.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== LaschW [n=laschw@dyndsl-085-016-010-203.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 12 Sep 19:00 UTC: Loco Teams Meeting | 13 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU
=== ogra [n=ogra@p5089FB08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting []
=== hawke [n=hawke@208.255.6.238] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!