[12:12] <jbailey> mdke: He's in .nz
[01:10] <prawcess> If anyone is active in here, I have a documentation question
[06:04] <Burglaptop> hey all, sorry I missed the meeting, I had not internet at home
[06:05] <ajmitch> hi
[06:07] <Burglaptop> was most frustrating to have to internet at home
[06:07] <ajmitch> how are you, anyway?
[06:07] <Burglaptop> busy, and had a major blowout with my father
[06:07] <ajmitch> ouch
[06:08] <Burglaptop> but now relaxing with my GF at her house
[06:10] <Burglaptop> he just got back from SA, couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to work for a company that has software patents and creates non-free software
[06:28] <jsg_sfd> hey guys
[06:31] <Madpilot> hi all
[06:32] <Madpilot> did the meeting happen this morning?
[06:33] <jsgotangco> sure
[06:33] <jsgotangco> see emails
[06:33] <Madpilot> where are the logs for -meeting kept?
[06:35] <jsgotangco> err
[06:35] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[06:35] <robitaille> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[06:35] <jsgotangco> people.ubuntu.com/~fabionne
[06:35] <Madpilot> thanks
[06:41] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[06:41] <jsgotangco> its nice to be back in school
[06:41] <jsgotangco> (im in an sfd celebration)
[06:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[06:42] <jsgotangco> xorg update
[06:42] <jsgotangco> reboot
[06:50] <BurgLaptop> jsgotangco, so I got sponsored
[06:51] <jsgotangco> good for you
[06:51] <Madpilot> BurgLaptop: good to hear! anyone else from DocTeam going to make it?
[06:52] <BurgLaptop> jsgotangco, did you get funded?
[06:52] <jsgotangco> no
[06:52] <BurgLaptop> mdke cannot get time off, robitaille likewise
[06:52] <jsgotangco> me an ajmitch will start swimming tommorow
[06:52] <BurgLaptop> rob didn't apply
[06:52] <BurgLaptop> which leaves it down to me
[06:52] <jsgotangco> you're the only docteam core
[06:52] <jsgotangco> and jbailey
[06:54] <BurgLaptop> jsgotangco, sorry I couldn't make the meeting, no internet at my house
[06:54] <jsgotangco> its ok
[06:54] <jsgotangco> i wasn't really much enthusiastic about the meeting either
[06:54] <jsgotangco> wasn't a good day
[06:54] <BurgLaptop> ya, just read the log
[06:55] <jsgotangco> 2 of my cousins died in new orleans
[06:55] <BurgLaptop> ouch
[06:55] <BurgLaptop> were they able to get out in time?
[06:55] <jsgotangco> they're kids
[06:55] <BurgLaptop> s/not able/
[06:55] <BurgLaptop> that is even worse
[06:55] <jsgotangco> ya
[06:55] <jsgotangco> my uncle is ok but is not speaking
[06:56] <jsgotangco> my dad is with him atm
[06:56] <jsgotangco> well anyways
[06:56] <jsgotangco> i just left last night for some beers and when i came back online, everything was chaos
[06:57] <BurgLaptop> oh?
[06:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:57] <BurgLaptop> I heard about the xml issue
[06:58] <BurgLaptop> what is the web address of the svn repo again?
[06:58] <Madpilot> http://doc.ubuntu.com/gnome/quicktour/quicktour.html  - and back & down from there
[06:58] <BurgLaptop> not the built one, the actual repo
[06:59] <Madpilot> ah, sorry. check the wiki, I set it up once and forgot about it...
[07:01] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamRepository <-- BurgLaptop
[07:01] <BurgLaptop> ya, got it
[07:02] <BurgLaptop> just figuring out if the latest stuff I did got committed
[07:02] <BurgLaptop> it did, but the rebuild didn't work
[07:02] <BurgLaptop> mdke, for some reason the quicktour is not being rebuilt on doc.ubuntu
[07:03] <BurgLaptop> http://gobby.0x539.de/screenshots.html
[07:03] <BurgLaptop> that is very cool
[07:12] <Madpilot> You know, I just noticed that UserDocumentation has no links to any of the actual hardware pages, or any of the laptop pages...
[07:13] <BurgLaptop> hmm
[07:13] <BurgLaptop> that might be a bug
[07:13] <BurgLaptop> I haven't done anything on the wiki is a month or so
[07:14] <Madpilot> I'm going to do some editing on UserDocs in a minute - which is the best, most newbie-friendly "will my laptop work" page to link to?
[07:16] <BurgLaptop> HardwareSupport
[07:16] <Madpilot> thnx
[07:17] <Madpilot> I'd also forgotten that there is an entire CategoryHardware...
[07:40] <Madpilot> hmmm... half the pages on HardwareSupport don't seem to be listed in CategoryHardware... nice bug...
[08:09] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhyIDontUbuntu    off course if you are really avoiding Ubuntu, you're most likely not going to discover that wiki page :)
[08:10] <Madpilot> I wondered about that one... ;)
[08:11] <Madpilot> I'm going berzerk thru the Hardware pages - lots of quick fixes & categorization, mostly
[08:34] <Madpilot> OK, berserking thru Hardware is done. firing all that stuff into RecentChanges might get some other ppl working on that stuff!
[08:58] <Madpilot> robitaille: your "help the printers" blog post has been good - there's about twice the # of printers there now, compared to before your post
[09:00] <robitaille> yeah I saw that.....my desktop main hard drive decided to switch to read-only mode a few minutes ago.  Probably not a good sign for the hardware...
[09:04] <Madpilot> robitaille: yikes. Time to start burning backup CDs, or rig a connection to your laptop!
[09:10] <robitaille> that's what I'm doing.  last full backups were 6 days ago.  But I managed to copy home directories to the laptop to get the recent changes.  Now I'm rebooting with thelive Cd to see what's going with that 4-year old HD
[09:15] <robitaille> interesting.  No error on the drive.  kernel bug?  motherboard problem?   humm...
[09:16] <robitaille> I'm a bit paranoid with backups; especially since we gota digital camera, and pictures are going on that computers; multiple backups; off site copies, etc. I don't trust technology
[09:26] <robitaille> nope...my drive seem to have died.  I guess there goes part of my Saturday to rebuild that machine :(
[09:27] <Madpilot> well, that sucketh mightily. how much data have you (likely) lost?
[09:34] <robitaille> none really.  if the backups work of course.  I guess my breezy test partition isn't backup, that's about it.    It's kind of nice to have the laptop has a 2nd computer in the house
[09:45] <robitaille> well, the drive is alive now after a long fsck session.  Ironically, most (all?) errors found where in my svn directory of the ubuntu-docs :)
[09:45] <robitaille> but I'm not sure I really trust it anymore...
[09:46] <Madpilot> yeah, I've got two 4-5yr old drives beside my desk in the same state - I think they work, but no way am I trusting them with data again...
[09:57] <Madpilot> robitaille: did Corey tell you he's giving a talk @ VLUG this coming Tuesday night? On Ubuntu, of course
[09:58] <robitaille> he sent an email to the ubuntu-ca list about it :)
[09:58] <Madpilot> I guess I should get myself on that list sometime soon...
[09:59] <robitaille> very high traffic...3 emails in September
[09:59] <Madpilot> I think I can handle that... ;)
[09:59] <robitaille> including the one by your brother
[10:12] <mdke> hi all
[10:12] <mdke> nice one burgs on sponsorship
[10:12] <jsgotangco> nice
[10:12] <jsgotangco> man i just finished speaking to 200 people
[10:12] <jsgotangco> im still at the avr
[10:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:13] <jsgotangco> hey mdke 
[10:13] <mdke> :)
[10:13] <mdke> how did it go?
[10:13] <jsgotangco> oh it was fun
[10:14] <jsgotangco> public speaking is a talent of mine
[10:14] <jsgotangco> so far sfd here is going great
[10:15] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco 
[10:15] <ajmitch> good to hear it's going well
[10:16] <mdke> nice one matey
[10:16] <mdke> there are none here
[10:19] <mdke> now then
[10:19] <jsgotangco> thats strange
[10:19] <mdke> should I make some pots for any kubuntu docs?
[10:19] <jsgotangco> mdke, i'm much better now compared last night
[10:20] <jsgotangco> hey ajmitch 
[10:20] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: great :)
[10:20] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, want to start swimming tommorow/
[10:20] <mdke> good man
[10:20] <ajmitch> sure
[10:20] <ajmitch> I found it'd cost me $3000NZ to fly to toronto & back
[10:20] <jsgotangco> ackkk
[10:20] <ajmitch> so swimming should get me fit by the time we reach montreal
[10:21] <mdke> my god
[10:21] <ajmitch> through panama & up the east coast, then? ;)
[10:21] <mdke> there must be a cheaper way than that
[10:21] <ajmitch> mdke: hardly
[10:21] <mdke> gosh
[10:21] <ajmitch> I live in New Zealand
[10:21] <Madpilot> ajmitch: and Toronto is still another flight away from Montreal...
[10:21] <ajmitch> Madpilot: I know, but the website didn't let me select montreal
[10:21] <jsgotangco> if we ride a boat, it would be cheaper
[10:21] <mdke> even so, 3000 bucks is a lot
[10:21] <ajmitch> mdke: certainly
[10:21] <ajmitch> that's a months wages, before tax
[10:21] <jsgotangco> oh well...
[10:21] <jsgotangco> yeah
[10:22] <jsgotangco> Corey Burger will uphold the Dokteam kause
[10:22] <mdke> ok so my question?
[10:22] <mdke> should I make some pots for any kubuntu docs?
[10:22] <jsgotangco> no
[10:22] <jsgotangco> its sooo spotty
[10:23] <jsgotangco> i pimped the idea to riddle to  add the doks later
[10:23] <jsgotangco> and let me polish it up first
[10:23] <mdke> k
[10:24] <mdke> bbl
[10:24] <ajmitch> so what can someone like me help with?
[10:24] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, the admin guide
[10:25] <jsgotangco> for breezy +1
[10:25] <ajmitch> ok, has that been started?
[10:25] <jsgotangco> just a draft
[10:25] <jsgotangco> not much content, just a TOC
[10:25] <ajmitch> better than nothing
[10:26] <ajmitch> admin from what perspective? sysadmin & a bunch of desktops, or server admin?
[10:26] <jsgotangco> sure
[10:26] <jsgotangco> sysadmin, server admin
[10:27] <jsgotangco> hmm why is it "Add Applications" in the Applications menu again?
[10:28] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: sabdfl wanted it back in
[10:28] <ajmitch> I saw him asking seb128 for it
[10:28] <jsgotangco> on that area???
[10:28] <jsgotangco> what a sucky place to put it
[10:28] <jsgotangco> although in a new user mind set, that's a wow
[10:28] <ajmitch> the new add applications util does look much nicer, too
[10:29] <ajmitch> a bit of a mess on my box
[10:29] <jsgotangco> hmmm Terminal is an accessory
[10:29] <jsgotangco> oh well
[10:29] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:30] <ajmitch> so much junk in this menu here :)
[10:44] <jsgotangco> mdke, ping?
[02:59] <jsgotangco> hi all
[03:32] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Hi. =)
[03:34] <jsgotangco> hi jbailey sorry about last night
[03:41] <jsgotangco> jbailey: you mind if i add mdz's email announcement on Breezy Preview as part of relase notes?
[03:41] <jsgotangco> (the technical stuff anyways)
[03:46] <mdke> sounds like a plan
[03:46] <jbailey> jsgotangco: No worries.
[03:46] <jbailey> Why would I mind?
[03:46] <jsgotangco> you started the wiki page
[03:47] <jbailey> Sure, but it's intended to be a palce where people can put things, we just didn't have a better forum.
[03:47] <jbailey> Reminds me that it should get announced to ubuntu-devel
[03:47] <mdke> i might do a hoary->breezy this coming week so I'll be happy to help out a bit with releasenotes
[03:47] <jbailey> Sweet.
[03:47] <jsgotangco> i'll do some stuff on BreezyReleaseNotes now
[03:47] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Thanks!
[03:47] <mdke> cool
[03:48] <mdke> jsgotangco, we can integrate it into the xml version at a later stage
[03:48] <jsgotangco> yes of course
[03:48] <jsgotangco> shouldn't be difficult
[03:48] <jbailey> Maybe make a note in the XML as to the date that you've copied the stuff from the wiki page?
[03:48] <jsgotangco> we'll need devel help in a few weeks to get the known issues
[03:48] <jbailey> Then you can use the revision control stuff in the wiki to figure out what  needs to be moved over.
[03:49] <mdke> good plan
[03:49] <jsgotangco> ok i'll just dump stuff first
[03:49] <jsgotangco> and announce to list
[03:49] <mdke> i still have really disappointing fonts on both my breezy systems
[03:49] <jsgotangco> that good?
[03:49] <mdke> yeah
[03:49] <jsgotangco> argghh
[03:50] <jsgotangco> i gave out a copy of breezy preview to some peers this afternoon and they seem to be teary-eyed
[03:50] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:50] <jsgotangco> we gave out a hundred ubuntu cds
[03:50] <jsgotangco> probably twice on the opencd
[03:50] <mdke> nice
[03:51] <jbailey> Is teary-eyed a good thing?
[03:51] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:51] <jbailey> Oh good. =)
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i asked a copy of linspire though
[03:54] <mdke> s/asked/burnt?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:42] <jsgotangco> mdke: ping?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> jbailey: ping?
[05:20] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Heya
[05:24] <jsgotangco> jbailey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[05:24] <jsgotangco> jbailey: just make a quick run through and i'll send to ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-devel later
[05:32] <jbailey> Grammar nit, I think:
[05:32] <jbailey> We hope you enjoy Ubuntu 5.10: The Breezy Badger release.
[05:32] <jbailey> Should probably be:
[05:32] <jbailey> We hope you enjoy the release of Ubuntu 5.10: The Breezy Badger
[05:32] <jbailey> or something like that.
[05:32] <jbailey> I don't think the word 'release' is part of the codename.
[05:32] <jsgotangco> ahh
[05:32] <jsgotangco> right
[05:32] <jsgotangco> everything is still draft anwyays
[05:33] <jbailey> The bug filing should probably  include a note about malone as well as bugzilla.  I don't know how to make that clear, though.
[05:33] <jbailey> (Since I get it wrong on occasion...)
[05:33] <jsgotangco> im told that main bugs go to bugzilla
[05:33] <jsgotangco> (should)
[05:33] <jbailey> Right
[05:33] <jsgotangco> and universe/everything else to malone
[05:33] <jbailey> But does the user know what that means?
[05:34] <jsgotangco> i always subscribe to the thought that we should only limit to main
[05:34] <jbailey> 'k
[05:34] <jbailey> I haven't through it through.
[05:34] <jsgotangco> i'll send to list later and call for help
[05:34] <jsgotangco> i'll limit it to ubuntu-doc first
[05:35] <jsgotangco> then once the others start editing it up, we'll open it to devel'
[05:35] <jsgotangco> what you think
[05:35] <jsgotangco> ?
[05:35] <jbailey> But this generally looks good.  You're awesome. =)
[05:35] <jbailey> Yes.
[05:35] <jsgotangco> nahh
[05:35] <jbailey> We need developers to start making notes soonish.
[05:35] <jbailey> Esp if we want to have any hopes of getting this translated.
[05:36] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:37] <jsgotangco> ok i'll announce the draft wiki to devel in 2 days im sure there will be edits by then
[05:37] <jbailey> Cool.
[05:38] <Liz> good job guys
[05:38] <Liz> nite 
[05:38] <jsgotangco> nite
[05:38] <jsgotangco> Liz
[05:41] <jsgotangco> heh im just doing a pattern with how luis did the 2.12 notes
[05:41] <jsgotangco> or was it murray
[05:41] <jsgotangco> hmm
[05:51] <_pir> helo
[05:51] <_pir> any one here can help?..
[05:51] <_pir> How do I disable all the support to MS network neighborhood ? 
[05:53] <highvoltage>  just use nfs?
[05:53] <jsgotangco> in a pure nix environment, nfs is your answer
[05:54] <_pir> I just need pure TCP-IP , and that's it... 
[05:56] <_pir> is ther any "network client " (like in windows ) that is sharing something in my computer?
[05:56] <jsgotangco> none
[05:56] <_pir> or samba client that can be disabled?
[05:56] <jsgotangco> just remove it if you don't need it
[05:56] <jsgotangco> its just added there because most poeple need it
[05:57] <jsgotangco> but nothing is shared by default if you mean like the hidden admin shares of a windows box
[05:57] <_pir> ok, how do I remove the samba client...
[05:58] <jsgotangco> _pir: this isn't a support channel but just remove smb-client or what package is that i don't even remember
[05:58] <_pir> ah... 
[05:58] <_pir> is there any support channel?
[05:59] <jsgotangco> better ask #ubuntu
[05:59] <_pir> thanks.
[07:42] <karlheg> initramfs-tools: I've some patches soon; can they get into it in time?
[07:42] <karlheg> One change in particular: the scripts in /etc/mkinitramfs/ are not getting copied to the initramfs right now.  I want to make that happen, plus move them to /etc/mkinitramfs/scripts/*.
[07:43] <karlheg> I've learned a few things by using it and setting up some special stuff for my laptop; it requires 855resolution be run, for instance, to get full resolution from the LCD, since the BIOS does not have the mode it needs and Xorg won't go that high without the hack.  It must be run in initramfs prior to resume from suspend.
[07:44] <karlheg> I've got some WIP that I can email soon; hopefully by the end of the day.
[07:47] <jbailey> karlheg: Sure.  What can be accepted depends on the change.  The only featurish thing I can accept is evms or cryptroot fixes (since those are really regressions against Hoary), and the evms part I have basically done.
[07:47] <jbailey> The scripts not being copied sounds like a bug, I'd love to see that.
[07:47] <jbailey> I don't know what 855resolution is.
[07:47] <karlheg> Another thing is that when a script is named with a '-' character in it, the dependancy stuff bombs with:
[07:48] <karlheg> eval: 1: array_lucgm-mtrr-hack=: not found
[07:48] <karlheg> (etc)
[07:48] <karlheg> PANIC: Circular Dependancy ... : Exit.
[07:48] <karlheg> Kernel Panic: Attempt to kill init.
[07:49] <karlheg> You can't boot anymore without rescue media.  I will try and fix that today.  It's next up.
[07:49] <karlheg> If the scripts are named with '_' instead, it works fine.
[07:50] <karlheg> I think there's got to be a fail-safe like in MSDOS / Windows 98 where you can say yes or no to each of those scripts or something.
[07:50] <karlheg> Maybe I can implement that.
[07:50] <karlheg> Also, I want to s/version/VERSION/g for the exported variable.  I will look at the scripts that are already out there to see if it's used much yet.
[07:51] <jbailey> We can't easily change the variable names at this point.
[07:51] <jbailey> LTSP might depend on it, and it's a maze of stuff.
[07:51] <karlheg> If so, then I'll export both for now or something.  I noticed that at least one script that is there does not use 'copy_exec', but instead uses 'install -D'.  It happens to work since the libc is all it depends on, but really should use the interface function.
[07:52] <jbailey> The failsafe really ought always to work, I'd love to see patches for that.
[07:52] <karlheg> I'll grab a copy and check it, plus network with them to see if they need anything else.
[07:52] <jbailey> Yup, some of the scripts were written as I was developping some of those hooks, so... =)
[07:52] <jbailey> Updates to those would be lovely.
[07:52] <karlheg> :-)
[07:52] <jbailey> I need to write a HACKING document for initramfs-tools.
[07:53] <jbailey> And maximillian said he had a manpage for me for initramfs.conf(8)
[07:53] <jbailey> So I should poke him for that.
[07:53] <karlheg> Well, anything that uses it ought to Depend on initramfs-tools, so I should be able to get a list of packages to be checked over.
[07:53] <jbailey> I've also got a new tool update-initramfs  that's used for updating them when usplash and other things are installed.
[07:53] <karlheg> Great!
[07:54] <karlheg> I reinstalled my laptop to get past the Breezy Xorg breakage.  I installed Hoary and did an upgrade.  It worked perfectly.
[07:54] <jbailey> Nice!
[07:54] <jbailey> I'm just doing my wife's machine atm.
[07:55] <karlheg> ... except for the problems due to hardware eccentricities... this box does not work right with HIGHMEM support enabled; I have to hack the MTRR to get it working, since for some reason it comes up with all caching off.
[07:55] <karlheg> It works fine with the 1GLOWMEM patch; makes the entire first Gb be lowmem.
[07:55] <karlheg> But that's not right in the general case.
[07:57] <sladen> jbailey: excellent!
[07:58] <sladen> jbailey: how does that work btw?  How are you selecting which kernels to rebuild for?
[08:02] <karlheg> It's a simple script that uses 'echo' to reset /proc/mtrr from init-top.
[08:02] <karlheg> I've not rebuilt any kernels yet; the 1glowmem patch is out there; it's ultra simple.
[08:03] <jbailey> sladen: I will by default rebuild the current one, pointed to by the /vmlinu[xz]  symlink
[08:04] <jbailey> sladen: If the symlink is not present, I will rebuild the highest versioned one.
[08:04] <jbailey> sladen: There are two tests:
[08:04] <jbailey> 1) This utilty must have made the initramfs originally.
[08:04] <jbailey> 2) The initramfs must not have changed since.
[08:12] <sladen> yup, that makes sense as long;  as don't have a problem boot-strapping the initramfs in the first place
[08:13] <sladen> jbailey: would it makes sense it allow it to take a parameter;  and check whether stdin is a TTY so that it can warn the user and provider a hint along with available kernels
[08:15] <jbailey> Warn them of what?
[08:15] <jbailey> That it's being regenerated?
[08:18] <karlheg> bbl; girlfriend conversation... Will be free to work again soon.
[09:11] <karlheg> Back.
[09:11] <karlheg> So for test #2 there, perhaps the mkinitramfs ought to put an identifier stamp file into the image?
[09:12] <karlheg> If it's the first file of the cpio somehow, perhaps it can be "magic number", iff gzip will give deterministic result... ?
[09:13] <karlheg> That implies using a library rather than the cpio tool, perhaps, or to generate the cpio via a 'find' command that elides the special file, including it "by hand" as the first file, prior to the 'find' list?
[10:00] <BurgLaptop> mdke, ping
[10:13] <jbailey> karlheg: For test #2, I just store a sha1sum in /var/lib/initramfs-tools
[10:13] <jbailey> karlheg: Far less hassle.
[10:15] <karlheg> Ah, ok, so done at mkinitramfs time; right.
[10:15] <karlheg> Is Matthew Garrett here?
[10:15] <karlheg> Do you know his IRC handle?
[10:16] <jbailey> mjg59, and he's not here.
[10:16] <jbailey> Why?
[10:16] <karlheg> found him in #ubuntu-devel.
[10:16] <karlheg> (see you there)
[10:33] <mdke> BurgLaptop, ?
[10:35] <BurgLaptop> mdke, the doc.ubuntu quicktour doesn
[10:35] <BurgLaptop> 't seem to have built fromt he latest svn
[10:36] <mdke> oh shit yes
[10:36] <mdke> the reason is that the makefile is not properly sorted
[10:36] <mdke> it should remove the build/quicktour files before copying them over
[10:37] <mdke> but I didn't know how to do it so I didn't set that
[10:37] <BurgLaptop> ah, ok
[10:37] <mdke> maybe have a word with jeffsch?
[10:37] <BurgLaptop> ok
[10:37] <mdke> sorry about that :/
[10:38] <BurgLaptop> not a major issue right now
[10:39] <mdke> k
[10:39] <mdke> i'll do it manually whenever i can
[10:39] <mdke> gtg
[10:40] <BurgLaptop> ok
[10:54] <BurgLaptop> salut robitaille 
[10:56] <robitaille> bonjour BurgLaptop