[12:05] <mdz> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt updated with zope
[12:05] <mdz> doko: the xpdf deps need to go
[12:06] <mdz> Riddell: there are two deps of libkiten1  in http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt which have no main inclusion reports
[12:07] <mdz> Riddell: until they are reviewed and promoted, it is uninstallable
[12:07] <ogra> mdz, they shouldnt even be in there anymore
[12:07] <mdz> oh, I confused kiten with krita I think
[12:07] <ogra> mdz, they come from kdeedu...
[12:07] <mdz> ogra: well, they are there
[12:07] <mdz> apt-cache show libkiten1
[12:08] <ogra> hrm... i'll look ... i changed the edubuntu seeds yesterday to let them disappear there
[12:08] <mdz> they are not seed entries
[12:08] <mdz> they are dependencies
[12:09] <ogra> yup, i removed the binary deps that pulled them in
[12:09] <Riddell> ogra: did you update the meta-package?
[12:09] <ogra> Riddell, its not in the meta package...
[12:10] <ogra> its only in supported... elmo wanted me to clear the non used kdeedu apps from anastacia... since all were approved i put them into supported, but missed that one pulls libkiten in...
[12:17] <ogra> mdz, so how do i make kiten and friends go away ? i dont need them, they are in none of my seeds for edubuntu 
[12:17] <mdz> ogra: read the germinate output and see what pulls it in
[12:17] <ogra> ok
[12:18] <ogra> oh, how silly... i dont have kiten in supported, but kdeedu... hmpf...
[12:20] <HrdwrBoB> easier to fix than my problem, I have two physical kittens in my way
[12:22] <mdz> Kamion: groff is the only thing which uses libxp in main
[12:45] <sivang> night all!
[12:45] <jdub> 'night israel!
[12:45] <jdub> 'morning sydney!
[12:45] <Nafallo> morning jdub :-)
[12:47] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[12:48] <tseng> jdub: these panels are amazing
[12:48] <jdub> shush!
[12:48] <tseng> jdub: you will have to start jdub|tv up for us
[12:48] <tseng> to see you dance
[12:48] <jdub> that's cruel and unusual treatment!
[01:01] <jbailey> jdub: Somehow I can imagine you yelling "GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!"
[01:04] <jdub> i would record for you
[01:04] <jdub> but my voice is all croaky and gross
[01:04] <jdub> pipka gave me a cold!
[01:16] <jdub> ogra: ha ha conservative
[01:16] <ogra> :)
[01:17] <Kamion> mdz: I blame imake or something; it's not used explicitly as far as I can see
[01:19] <stub> I just upgraded to breezy, and had no Gnome sound. Turned out I had polypaudio installed rather than esound. Was this my fault from sometime in the past or is this an upgrade bug that needs reporting?
[01:21] <jdub> stub: that was a release-notes-only-able upgrade fix
[01:21] <stub> There are release notes? ;)
[01:27] <mdz> stub: with every milestone CD, yes
[01:27] <jbailey> stub: https://wiki.ubuntu.com//BreezyReleaseNotes =)
[01:27] <stub> Ahh... I just upgraded with synaptic, and google hasn't found the breezy release notes yet ;)
[01:34] <jdub> stub: it was a hoary preview -> final thing
[01:44] <sladen> yes, experienced 15283 when I was at my parents in Nottingham last week.
[01:49] <ogra> sladen, be happy you didnt experience 15284 *g*
[01:53] <Kamion> mdz: ok, I have a patch here which avoids the libXp linkage
[01:54] <mdz> Kamion: woo
[01:54] <Kamion> mdz: will I be able to sync past groff 1.18.1.1-9? the multibyte fixes are tasty and I've had no bug reports
[01:54] <mdz> how long has it stewed in sid?
[01:54] <Kamion> two weeks
[01:55] <Kamion> or just under, anyway
[01:55] <mdz> it makes me a bit nervous because it's such a build-depish thing
[01:55] <mdz> but if you're confident
[01:55] <mdz> and don't mind rolling it back if it blows up on us
[01:56] <Kamion> I'll check it over again to make sure the changes are as CJK-specific as I remember
[01:57] <Kamion> but certainly, all the code involved is mine anyway so for a change I understand the multibyte patches
[01:57] <sladen> ogra: hehe, some people are fairly detailed in their bug-reporting...
[02:00] <ajmitch> slightly too detailed
[02:00] <mdke>  [00:54:26]  < Kamion> mdz: will I be able to sync past groff 1.18.1.1-9? the multibyte fixes are tasty and I've had no bug
[02:00] <mdke> argh
[02:00] <mdke> sorry all
[02:01] <mdke> leaned on the mousepad
[02:02] <Ubuntu> it's very weird that I caught a msg fail to load general console font and t_kernel font ...[fail] , I looked through but couldn't find the reason to make a patch to fix, any1has anyidea?
[02:03] <mdke> on booting?
[02:03] <Ubuntu> yes
[02:03] <mdke> i get that too
[02:03] <mdke> i think it is usplash related
[02:03] <Ubuntu> I thought so
[02:03] <Ubuntu> u got any idea?
[02:04] <mdke> except for that, no. Will you file a bug?
[02:04] <mdz> mdke: it's already there
[02:04] <mdz> at least twice
[02:04] <mdz> so please don't
[02:04] <mdke> fair enough
[02:04] <mdz> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14691
[02:04] <mdke> by filing a bug, i meant, check bugzilla and then file if it's not there
[02:04] <mdke> :)
[02:06] <Ubuntu> got ya
[02:06] <Ubuntu> besides, I also found a problems, not sure I can call it a bug or not
[02:07] <Ubuntu> the fglrx-driver does not automatically put module 'fglrx' into /etc/module
[02:07] <mdz> that isn't a bug
[02:10] <Ubuntu> okay
[02:10] <Ubuntu> thx much mdz
[03:05] <desrt> mhmm
[03:07] <mxpxpod> is anyone else having problems with beagle starting?
[03:08] <sabdfl> hi folks. i see we don't have a protocol handler for irc:// in firefox. should we not have Gaim or Xchat setup to handle those URL's?
[03:09] <mdz> sabdfl: you scared them all away
[03:09] <mxpxpod> ooh, I love netsplits
[03:10] <sabdfl> slackers
[03:10] <mdz> xchat seems like a reasonable handler for that
[03:10] <bddebian> pfft
[03:10] <desrt> sabdfl; bugzilla :p
[03:10] <mdz> though I don't think it does anything sane if it's already running
[03:10] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl 
[03:10] <sabdfl> hi guys
[03:11] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl 
[03:11] <sabdfl> i ask because we have the irc URL for #ubuntu on the +gethelp pages in LP, but you only get an error if you click on them
[03:13] <desrt> sabdfl; what's the tone of the launchpad week at UBZ gonna be like?
[03:13] <ajmitch> is there a date by which we have to notify that we're coming to UBZ?
[03:13] <sabdfl> desrt: focused. we mainly work with specs not code, and we'll be trying to narrow down the scope of LP 2.x
[03:14] <desrt> but all about the webservice side of things, right?
[03:17] <slomo> elmo: ping?
[03:18] <sabdfl> desrt: yes
[03:23] <daniels> mjg59: can you please drop me an Xorg.0.log from your X300 that dies?  just want to pick out the model so I can special-case it for the time being
[03:43] <bddebian> Riddell: ping
[03:54] <jgorski> are fairly uninvolved ubuntu fans such as myself invited to UBZ?... i might be in the neighborhood at that time.
[03:55] <Lathiat> jgorski: anyone is welcome to attend
[03:55] <Lathiat> jgorski: it is however a developer oriented conference
[03:55] <daniels> it's more of a developer summit than a conference
[03:56] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I reckon you should just start swimming there
[03:56] <Lathiat> daniels: details, details
[03:56] <Lathiat> ajmitch: hrm, well if i start now..
[03:56] <Lathiat> maybe i can stuff myself in daniels' carry on luggage
[03:58] <jgorski> Lathiat: well. i'm looking to be more involved in any case... so, I'm glad it fairly open.
[04:06] <spstarr> uhm why do we have silly dependencies for kubuntu-desktop in -devel
[04:06] <spstarr> mdadm is needed for what reason? RAID is a desktop thing these days?
[04:11] <bob2> yeah, surely no one ever considered that ;)
[04:11] <spstarr> bob2?
[04:12] <Lathiat> spstarr: an extra 100K of used space killed your cat?
[04:12] <spstarr> i just dont want daemons running that aren't useful in ram
[04:12] <spstarr> not disk space, its about ram
[04:13] <bob2> they don't use ram
[04:13] <spstarr> mdadm does
[04:13] <jdub> if you don't have any raid devices, mdadm doesn't run
[04:13] <Lathiat> mdadm isnt an in memory thing it manages stuff in the kernel, and yes lots of people use raid etc on the desktop
[04:13] <spstarr> we can't make it a conditional dependency?
[04:13] <jdub> if you have raid devices, mdadm will run to monitor them
[04:13] <jdub> so it doesn't hurt at all :-)
[04:13] <bob2> spstarr: a) it doesn't run if you don't have raid devices, b) if it does run and doesn't get used, it will live in swap, not ram
[04:14] <Lathiat> spstarr: what is a 'conditional dependancy'
[04:14] <jdub> Lathiat: like pcmcia-cs, only installed if required
[04:14] <Lathiat> jdub: ah
[04:14] <spstarr> yeah
[04:14] <spstarr> a few packages should be conditional 
[04:15] <jdub> mdadm isn't
[04:15] <jdub> because it does the right thing
[04:15] <spstarr> that way, by default you install, but you allow people to remove them without removing 780MB of stuff
[04:15] <bob2> removing mdadm removes nothing aside from ubuntu-desktop
[04:15] <Lathiat> spstarr: err, removing mdadm wont remove a stack of stuff
[04:15] <spstarr> oh yes it does
[04:15] <Lathiat> ooh
[04:15] <Lathiat> i lied
[04:15] <Lathiat> it removes your kernel
[04:15] <jdub> there are very few things that need to be conditional
[04:15] <Lathiat> spstarr: its not hurting you, get over it. :)
[04:15] <spstarr> my kernel is non packaged so it won't bug me
[04:15] <jdub> Lathiat: for initramfs love
[04:16] <spstarr> but it removes kubuntu-desktop which removes all of Xorg and other stuff
[04:16] <Lathiat> spstarr: removing kubuntu-desktop wont remove anything
[04:16] <daniels> err, removing kubuntu-desktop does not remove Xorg
[04:16] <Lathiat> its a meta package that purely depends on other things to install them
[04:16] <spstarr> oh, i guess why it asked me to rip out 780MB?
[04:16] <jdub> spstarr: the bottom line is - if you need it, it runs. if you don't, it doesn't.
[04:16] <daniels> probably because of initramfs and the kernel
[04:17] <Lathiat> are you trying to use some kind of smart package management thats removing everything it depended on or something?
[04:17] <spstarr> now i have to put it back and its going to reinstall 789MB 
[04:17] <Lathiat> spstarr: apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop
[04:17] <spstarr> Lathiat, aptitude
[04:17] <Lathiat> spstarr: it wont do jack
[04:17] <spstarr> aptitude seems to think otherwise oddly
[04:18] <Lathiat> any which way
[04:18] <Lathiat> removing it is going to gain you 100K of disk space
[04:18] <Lathiat> i dont see how thats helpful
[04:18] <spstarr> but its fixing its self now, i'd still like to see some packages conditional for the next release coming 
[04:18] <Lathiat> spstarr: like what
[04:19] <spstarr> its not many
[04:19] <Lathiat> give a specific example
[04:20] <spstarr> evms/lvm
[04:20] <daniels> we've had this discussion before, and the consensus was that if you cared deeply about 200kB or whatever it is, then desktop metapackages are not for you
[04:20] <jdub> spstarr: again, if you don't need them, they don't run
[04:20] <spstarr> hmm
[04:20] <jdub> they're nicely short-circuited in their init scripts
[04:21] <jdub> we were very picky about this when we decided to ship great hardware support stuff by default
[04:21] <jdub> Lathiat: yeah! it is rad.
[04:21] <Lathiat> jdub: yeah?
[04:21] <bob2> people use it on laptops, even
[04:21] <Lathiat> but its gui is 1.2! ;p
[04:21] <jdub> i haven't fully transitioned, but will when i get my new controller/disks
[04:21] <Lathiat> (gtk)
[04:21] <spstarr> otherwise, breezy is just a breeze for release
[04:21] <jdub> i use the curses one :)
[04:22] <Lathiat> so what do i do to pull that up?
[04:22] <spstarr> i need to get my friend to test a bug i submitted for him for his qlogic scsi card blowing up with wrong kernel driver
[04:22] <Lathiat> evmsn apparently
[04:22] <jdub> yeah
[04:22] <spstarr> hopefully he can get the 4th drop 
[04:22] <Lathiat> jdub: so what does this let me do
[04:22] <HrdwrBoB> spstarr: hopefully he has another card
[04:22] <jdub> you can set up named storage sets
[04:22] <jdub> which can encompass raid, lvm, etc.
[04:23] <spstarr> HrdwrBoB, breezy loaded/loads the wrong driver 
[04:23] <jdub> really impressive
[04:23] <Lathiat> hrm
[04:23] <Lathiat> i'll have to play with it
[04:23] <spstarr> HrdwrBoB, ive been told its fixed in 4, so he needs to pull the ISO and let me know :)
[04:23] <HrdwrBoB> oh, so it didn't 'blow up'
[04:23] <spstarr> breezy found my qlogic 64bit scsi card no problem 
[04:23] <spstarr> HrdwrBoB, dont know he hasn't tried it yet
[04:23] <spstarr> the bug is NEEDMOREINFO state
[04:24] <Lathiat> has anyone looked into the bunch of people reporting poor hard disk performance in breezy?
[04:24] <spstarr> daniels: do we have a timetable for when Xorg 7.0RC0 packages will be added to the next drop?
[04:25] <Lathiat> i figure somethigns loading a generic ide module or something
[04:25] <bob2> haha
[04:25] <bob2> daniels: where's my x.org modular cvs packages??///
[04:25] <spstarr> bob2: I'd love those too
[04:25] <bob2> haha
[04:25] <daniels> bob2: stfu
[04:25] <spstarr> Xorg-HEAD is amazing right now
[04:25] <daniels> spstarr: 'sometime after breezy releases'
[04:25] <Lathiat> i want 3d support on my ati!
[04:25] <Lathiat> :)
[04:25] <spstarr> Lathiat: r300?
[04:25] <Lathiat> spstarr: ya
[04:25] <Lathiat> well, 3x0
[04:26] <spstarr> its awsome
[04:26] <Lathiat> 350 i think
[04:26] <spstarr> i get 30-40 fps for ppracer (tuxracer)
[04:26] <Lathiat> nice
[04:26] <spstarr> it varies on the course
[04:26] <Lathiat> i just want to play bzflag 
[04:26] <Lathiat> and supertuxkart
[04:26] <Lathiat> im sure it can manage those :)
[04:27] <spstarr> supertuxcart eh
[04:27] <Lathiat> yeh i've yet to try it
[04:27] <Lathiat> since neither my nvidia nor ati want to play ball atm
[04:28] <spstarr> actually, whats the next release name coming? :)
[04:28] <spstarr> or thats still secret
[04:29] <jdub> Lathiat: early initramfs-tools packages included generic ide modules in /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[04:29] <jsgotangco> i tried the binary drivers and they work well with me
[04:29] <spstarr> Lathiat, I have to mit im damin amazed upgrading from debian unstable to breezy was almost painless
[04:29] <spstarr> er admit
[04:29] <jsgotangco> although there is no way atm to switch displays with it
[04:31] <jdub> [4721900.431000]  hda: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
[04:31] <jdub> [4721910.431000]  hda: DMA timeout error
[04:31] <jdub> [4721910.431000]  hda: dma timeout error: status=0xd0 { Busy }
[04:31] <jdub> [4721910.431000] 
[04:31] <jdub> [4721910.431000]  ide: failed opcode was: unknown
[04:31] <jdub> [4721910.431000]  hda: DMA disabled
[04:31] <jdub> [4721910.481000]  ide0: reset: success
[04:31] <jdub> 
[04:31] <jdub> interesting
[04:31] <Lathiat> spstarr: you did that? wow im impressed it work, maybe thats why your tryign to remove 800M of stuff ;p
[04:31] <spstarr> Lathiat, well i had to downgrade GNU libc and such
[04:31] <spstarr> but, thats it
[04:32] <elmo> jdub: is that a powerbook?
[04:32] <jdub> elmo: X300
[04:32] <elmo> oh, interesting
[04:32] <spstarr> i had to run a weird dpkg command to do it
[04:32] <spstarr> something i never saw before
[04:32] <jdub> intersting like "ouch"
[04:33] <spstarr> my .bash_history is gone so i cant tell you what ;/
[04:35] <Lathiat> gah this hard freeze on sata thingies is getting annoying
[04:35] <Lathiat> fabbione: what happened to that test kernel
[04:38] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I haven't seen it, I'll try & reproduce it tho
[04:38] <Lathiat> ajmitch: theres an open bug, apparently fixed, just no new kernel yet
[04:41] <sladen> I've had freezes here;  they seem to be more related to the PATA CDROM than the SATA laptop drive
[04:42] <spstarr> apt-get -o"Dir::Cache::archives=`pwd`" -o"Debug::NoLocking=true" -o"Dir::State::status=/dev/null" -d install ubuntu-base
[04:42] <spstarr> thanks to Seveas 
[04:42] <spstarr> :)
[04:43] <spstarr> i should add this all to the wiki
[04:43] <spstarr> how to upgrade from debian unstable to ubuntu breezy +
[04:44] <ajmitch> spstarr: it's dangerous :)
[04:44] <ajmitch> because it'll require a numver of downgrades in some situations
[04:44] <spstarr> wasn't for me at all other than udev causing the system to hang on boot
[04:44] <spstarr> ajmitch, i only downgraded gnu libc 
[04:44] <spstarr> the rest took itself out
[04:45] <spstarr> heh so i had downloaded 1.1G when it finished updating me
[04:45] <Lathiat> doesnt mean there arent other problems that cna cause conflicts later
[04:45] <spstarr> i removed the non -ubuntu* packages (the ones that conflicted me)
[04:45] <bddebian> elmo: Did you get my e-mail reply about oregano and vipec?
[04:46] <spstarr> so i have a 99% ubuntu breezy with some debian unstable floating around which will eventually get replaced as dependencies need
[04:46] <ajmitch> and you'll have config files that may or may not match the package versions you have installed
[04:46] <spstarr> 780 packages have #ubuntu# marked 
[04:46] <spstarr> ajmitch, it replaced most of them since i removed all system daemons except udev
[04:47] <spstarr> which appears broke for me (hangs forever so im using debian unstable version)
[04:47] <spstarr> 0.68
[04:48] <spstarr> ajmitch: i wouldn't expect much breakage since breezy has much of debian unstable 
[04:48] <spstarr> let's just say it's been a pleasent migration :)
[04:48] <Lathiat> spstarr: i would, it has alot of it but theres alot of differences, and intermixing package versions like that can have all sorts of unexpected results, a prime example being your broken udev as no one else has that problem
[04:49] <spstarr> well i am using mainline kernels off the shelf
[04:49] <Lathiat> so its not totally without pain, be warned :)
[04:49] <spstarr> well, 3 weeks so far, it's been just great
[04:50] <spstarr> as a former linuxfromscratch nut, i can picture almost all of the dependencies  in my head 
[04:50] <crimsun> you're using mainline kernels?
[04:51] <spstarr> oh yes
[04:51] <crimsun> I wouldn't be surprised if things mysteriously didn't work
[04:51] <spstarr> im glad ubuntu hasn't complained (other than udev)
[04:51] <spstarr> yeah
[04:53] <spstarr> i just have to switch back to Xorg-HEAD, 6.8.2 is killing my video card, the laptop fan is always on since redrawing text has to page the whole window up each time
[04:53] <spstarr> (in a konsole)
[04:55] <spstarr> hopefully the xkb stuff is unborked (pressing keys randomly resized the video for some reason)
[04:57] <daniels> works for me (modular tree, at least)
[04:57] <spstarr> building it all again now
[04:57] <spstarr> (in usr/local/X11R6)
[04:58] <spstarr> im wondering if i need to do some --prefix magic to tell it to look in usr/local for xkb config stuff instead of 6.8.2's version
[04:58] <daniels> you probably want the xkeyboard-config stuff
[04:59] <daniels> wa-hey!
[04:59] <spstarr> oh another module.
[04:59] <spstarr>  cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.freedesktop.org:/cvs/xorg -f co app data doc driver font lib proto util xserver
[04:59] <spstarr> if that's not in there, i will add to wiki
[04:59] <Lathiat> daniels: sweet?
[05:09] <spstarr> xkeyboard-config oh, thats an ubuntu package.. yea i got that, me watches build
[05:54] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:54] <fabbione> Lathiat: ping?
[05:55] <bddebian> Heya fabbione 
[05:55] <fabbione> hi bddebian 
[05:57] <Lathiat> fabbione: pong
[05:58] <fabbione> Lathiat: did you get to test the new kernel?
[05:58] <Lathiat> fabbione: ah i didnt get the url for it
[05:58] <fabbione> Lathiat: tsk :P
[05:58] <Lathiat> fabbione: i asked earlier
[05:58] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/linux-image-2.6.12-8-686_2.6.12-8.13_i386.deb <-
[05:59] <fabbione> i know know that it builds
[05:59] <Lathiat> wgrabbing now
[06:02] <Lathiat> fabbione: ok installing now.. just have to wait a few days and see what happens 
[06:03] <Lathiat> its frozen 3 times today so if it hasnt within a couple days it should be ok
[06:03] <fabbione> Lathiat: yup.. i am aware of that. thanks a lot
[06:03] <Lathiat> did mark have any luck?
[06:03] <infinity>  14:03:27 up 16:42,  6 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.14, 0.27
[06:03] <infinity> So far, so good.
[06:03] <infinity> But I'm not going to assume anything until it's been up another day or two.
[06:03] <fabbione> Lathiat: no idea.. 
[06:04] <Lathiat> cus his was a desktop issue now? until now i thought it seemed ot be only reported on dell laptops, but i have no idea of the underlying proble
[06:04] <Lathiat> m
[06:05] <infinity> Not a Dell here, my daily freezes have been on an IBM laptop.
[06:05] <Lathiat> ah ok
[06:05] <Lathiat> so its general then
[06:05] <infinity> But if it really is an SATA issue, then it could happen anywhere.
[06:05] <Lathiat> btw i thought we had the patch for SMART w/ SATA ?
[06:06] <fabbione> Lathiat: no.. we have "go to sleep SATA"
[06:06] <Lathiat> ah ok i knew about that one, just thought we had the smart one too
[06:08] <Lathiat> wonder if mjg59 had any luck with the dualpoint issue
[06:37] <infinity> mdz :ping.
[06:39] <mdz> infinity: pong
[06:40] <infinity> mdz : Can I get a UVF exception to toss php5 5.0.5 i. It's a bugfix only release, includes the XML_RPC security fix, and a few nasty fixes I would have pulled from CVS anyway.
[06:40] <infinity> s/i./in./
[06:41] <fabbione> infinity: if you want i can pre-test it
[06:41] <fabbione> my new server is running breezy and php5
[06:41] <fabbione> and i host a couple of php only sites
[06:42] <infinity> fabbione : Sure, it's been cooking in sid for a day or two with no bug reports yet.  I'll whip up the Ubuntu sync.  What arch is your server?
[06:42] <fabbione> i386
[06:42] <infinity> Alright.  I'll build binaries in a sec.
[06:42] <fabbione> infinity: is there any diff between breezy <-> sid packaging?
[06:42] <fabbione> if not i can just pull from sid
[06:43] <infinity> fabbione : Just disabling some stuff we don't have in main, otherwise it should be fine.
[06:43] <fabbione> infinity: ok. than i prefer to have the standard pkgs
[06:43] <fabbione> i am trying to avoid to clutter the machine too much :)
[06:43] <fabbione> since it's expected to run for at least the next 5/6 years
[06:46] <mdz> infinity: sounds reasonable; please arrange for test builds of the reverse build deps
[06:47] <infinity> Already tested, php5-dev appears to agree with it's reverse-build-deps just fine.
[06:48] <elmo> eh
[06:49] <elmo> was ipw an out of tree driver we merged in?
[06:49] <bob2> yes
[06:49] <fabbione> hey elmo
[06:49] <elmo> christing banans
[06:49] <elmo> hey fabbione
[06:49] <fabbione> elmo: what's the problem with ipw2x00?
[06:50] <elmo> no problem, I just didn't realise it was something we merged in out of tree
[06:50] <elmo> I assumed it was upstream
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: it's going upstream.. but it's taking a bit of time because of the ieee$whatevernum layer
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: i need your comment on #15237
[06:50] <elmo> fabbione: yeah, linus just merged it
[06:50] <fabbione> elmo: eheh
[06:52] <elmo> fabbione: hum, my comment beyond "we need to strip that file"?
[06:53] <fabbione> meh...
[06:54] <fabbione> that can be sort of an issue so close to release :/
[06:54] <fabbione> elmo: thanks...
[06:54] <elmo> well.
[06:54] <elmo> we can rebuild main at least, to make sure nothing breaks, FWIW
[06:55] <elmo> tho you just messed the latest b-at run of DOOM
[06:55] <fabbione> elmo: i dunno all the tetex internals.. i  am more worried about runtime breakage
[06:55] <elmo> tetex-extra is for freeekay stuff
[06:55] <fabbione> did i break what?
[06:56] <fabbione> when?
[06:56] <fabbione> how?
[06:57] <fabbione> elmo: how can i push to you a stripped version for b-at ?
[06:57] <elmo> well
[06:57] <elmo> we'll definitely be doing more main runs , like weekly, so can it wait for the next one?
[06:58] <elmo> if not I suppose I could pause this one, and restart it later today
[06:58] <fabbione> elmo: i am ok to wait.. given that i need to prepare the pkg first
[06:58] <fabbione> elmo: how can i push the pkg to you without uploading to the archive?
[06:58] <elmo> you don't
[06:59] <elmo> we have to strip this dude
[06:59] <elmo> if stuff breaks, we'll fix the stuff
[06:59] <elmo> so upload to the archive, and I'll sync from there
[06:59] <elmo> (that's how b-at works, it syncs from b)
[06:59] <elmo> anyway, I need to crash.  g'night
[07:00] <infinity> elmo : Oh, wait!
[07:00] <fabbione> elmo: ok.. good night
[07:00] <infinity> elmo : Can you sync php4 for me before you nap? :)
[07:00] <elmo> infinity: pls fix king's space again, bonus points for permanently, kthxbye
[07:00] <elmo> nap, pfft
[07:00] <infinity> Consider it done.
[07:00] <infinity> s/nap/slumber/
[07:01] <elmo> done
[07:01] <elmo> gone
[07:01] <infinity> Danke.
[07:04] <fabbione> ok... 
[07:05] <fabbione> we can drop tetex*
[07:06] <fabbione> grep "You are not allowed to change this file" * -ril | wc -l
[07:06] <fabbione> 33
[07:09] <[Chameleon] > my Breezy install doesn't have an /etc/modules.conf ... Is this normal?
[07:11] <Lathiat> [Chameleon] : yes
[07:11] <[Chameleon] > OK, do I do my configurations in some file under /etc/modules.d ?
[07:11] <[Chameleon] > it's not obvious which I am to modify
[07:11] <[Chameleon] > er, /etc/modprobe.d
[07:11] <[Chameleon] > :)
[07:12] <[Chameleon] > oh crud
[07:12] <[Chameleon] > n/m
[07:12] <Lathiat> [Chameleon] : what are you trying to d?
[07:12] <[Chameleon] > I see that it is modules I am needing to modify
[07:13] <[Chameleon] > GXine says: "If you are using the ide-cd module ensure
[07:13] <[Chameleon] > that you have the following entry in /etc/modules.conf:
[07:13] <[Chameleon] > options ide-cd dma=1"
[07:13] <fabbione> [Chameleon] , Lathiat: please move to #ubuntu
[07:13] <fabbione> it's offtopic here.. thanks
[07:13] <[Chameleon] > fabbione: sorry... I did try several times in #ubuntu, but nobody would help.
[07:25] <infinity> fabbione : Still want test binaries, or sould I just do a source upload?
[07:27] <fabbione> infinity: if you want me to test, i can.. up to you
[07:28] <doko> mdz: dropping xpdf-utils seems to be possible, although I'm not yet sure, if we need pdftohtml. but: pdftohtml is derived from xpdf-2.02, which should not enter main
[07:29] <doko> mdz: do you remember the reason why to drop xpdf-utils together with xpdf?
[07:30] <fabbione> we might have to drop tetex* from main
[07:31] <infinity> fabbione : I've tested enough here to satisfy myself, and my bandwidth sucks, so I'll just do the source upload. :)
[07:31] <fabbione> infinity: works for me
[07:33] <fabbione> mdz: can we get a picture of what would happen if we move tetex* out of main?
[07:33] <fabbione> s/main/archive.....
[07:33] <fabbione> or move it multiverse..
[07:33] <mdz> doko: the reason was that poppler provided the same functionality
[07:33] <mdz> doko: pitti added a program or two to it, iirc
[07:33] <mdz> fabbione: rdepends in germinate-output
[07:39] <fabbione> MEH
[07:39] <fabbione> i guess that's not an option
[07:40] <fabbione> not without killing docs on 3/4 of the archive
[07:44] <jdub> Just one question....The boot splash was the absolute best I've ever
[07:44] <jdub> seen anywhere, any distro.
[07:44] <jdub> Is this a part of Breezy now, or a future addition?
[07:44] <jdub> ^ ha ha
[07:46] <doko> mdz: hmm, didn't know that poppler uses the xpdf sources ...
[07:47] <jdub> doko: it's a fork
[07:51] <infinity> gh.
[07:51] <infinity> Argh, too.
[07:52] <infinity>  libghc6-cabal-dev is hosing buildd chroots.  Yay.
[07:52] <fabbione> infinity: how so?
[07:52] <infinity> See, for example: 
[07:53] <infinity> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tea/9.0-1/tea_9.0-1_20050913-0526-powerpc-failed.gz
[07:53] <infinity> It's sticking around half-installed, and killing all builds after the one that tried to install it.  YAY.
[07:54] <fabbione> meh
[07:55] <infinity> Oh, this is so broken in so many ways.
[07:56] <infinity> The postinst does a chmod +x on something in /usr/share/doc, then runs it.

[07:59] <pitti> Morning
[08:04] <ajmitch> hi pitti
[08:10] <infinity> Christ on crutches, there are a whole mess of ghc libs that are broken in cute and interesting ways.
[08:10] <infinity> ajmitch : Feel like being a productive MOTU today and fixing a mess of bugs?
[08:15] <ajmitch> infinity: sure, I might as well be productive for a change
[08:16] <infinity> :)
[08:16] <infinity> ajmitch : apt-get install libghc6-cabal-dev libghc6-hsql-dev ... Those are both broken.
[08:16] <infinity> In different ways.
[08:18] <ajmitch> such as?
[08:18] <infinity> postinsts failing in both cases, leaving the packages half-installed and hosing chroots.
[08:18] <ajmitch> how badly will I screw up my box like the buildd if I install?
[08:18] <infinity> Easy neough to purge the packages after the fact.
[08:18] <infinity> (Well, -hsql- may require some manual fiddling to purge..)
[08:20] <fabbione> bbl
[08:21] <ajmitch> rules & postinst look strange, for sure
[08:22] <infinity> The postinst is utter crack, but that's not the point.  The point is how it dies.  Debian bug #300461, if you're curious, but there's been no response to it.
[08:25] <ajmitch> I'll take a look at it
[08:25] <infinity> Danke.
[08:29] <pitti> elmo: please sync tdiary
[08:33] <ajmitch> looks like there's new code in haskell-cabal's darcs repo, so at least it's not forgotten
[08:46] <ajmitch> infinity: good news is that that package was never meant to work with ghc 6.4 :)
[08:46] <infinity> And the bad news?
[08:46] <ajmitch> the debian maintainer never bothered to upload any of his newer versions
[08:47] <ajmitch> simple to fix
[08:47] <infinity> If it's simple, pretty please fix it. :)
[08:47] <ajmitch> will upload asap
[08:47] <infinity> If you get a fixed package uploaded, I'll fasttrack it through the buildds ASAP, so I can then go around cleaning everything up. :/
[08:51] <infinity> ajmitch : Can you check on libghc6-* (whatveer apt-cache search shows you) as well, just for sanity's sake?
[08:51] <infinity> ajmitch ; The fact that my first random try (-hsql-dev) was also broken kinda freaks me out.
[08:52] <ajmitch> sure
[08:52] <ajmitch> cabal is a build system for this stuff, so it might be breaking the others
[08:52] <infinity> No, hsql appears to be broken due to the postgresql transition.
[08:53] <infinity> But the general feeling I get is that it's all rather old, crusty, and unmaintained in breezy (likely due to the fact that we bootstrapped ghc6 only recently...)
[09:11] <torkel> 1G
[09:36] <ajmitch> this package is certainly annoying
[09:36] <ajmitch> works fine if I build in-tree
[09:36] <ajmitch> produces a broken register.sh if I use pbuilder
[09:36] <infinity> Missing a build-dep?
[09:37] <infinity> Or just does something Very Wrong somewhere?
[09:37] <ajmitch> something Very Wrong, I suspect
[09:37] <ajmitch> no surprises there
[09:45] <crispin> daniels: btw, have you seen bug 15167 ?
[09:47] <daniels> crispin: hmm, turns out I forgot to dput it
[09:47] <daniels> actually, no
[09:47] <daniels> gar
[09:48] <daniels> weird
[09:48] <daniels> will look at it later
[10:10] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please melanie the readahead source package?
[10:17] <KwongPham> I need some confirmation about 
[10:18] <KwongPham> 'fglrx_xgamma' command
[10:18] <KwongPham> when I run it
[10:18] <KwongPham> it said it miss libxgamme libary file
[10:20] <Treenaks> KwongPham: file a bug please
[10:20] <hunger> Any chance of getting a updated ATI driver in breezy?
[10:21] <infinity> hunger : Yes, it's happening.,
[10:21] <hunger> Maybe that problem will go away then, too;-)
[10:21] <hunger> infinity: Great! And sl-modem-deaemon was updated, too!
[10:22] <hunger> infinity: linux-restricted-modules are getting really useable again. Thanks for fixing that.
[10:22] <infinity> Not much I did to make them useable.
[10:22] <infinity> I think my name is in the changelog all of once.
[10:23] <hunger> infinity: Well, you gave me the good news, you get the fame;-)
[10:23] <hunger> infinity: Now if only I could use the lrm...
[10:24] <hunger> infinity: Got to build all that stuff myself since the breezy kernel is not stable for my system.
[10:27] <infinity> ajmitch : Any progress?
[10:29] <infinity> hunger : What happens on your system?
[10:31] <hunger> infinity: It is just plain unstable... longest uptime with a ubuntu kernel is about 3h.
[10:32] <infinity> hunger : Does it lock up hard, does it panic, oops repeatedly..?
[10:32] <hunger> infinity: Hard lockup. 2.6.13 is rock solid. I guess it is due to PCIe support.
[10:32] <infinity> hunger : SATA?
[10:33] <hunger> infinity: Laptop with SATA, PCIe and all the other new stuff.
[10:33] <infinity> hunger : Same her, an IBM T43 in my case.
[10:33] <infinity> hunger : s/her/here/
[10:33] <infinity> hunger : i686?
[10:33] <hunger> infinity: T43p here;-)
[10:33] <infinity> hunger : Can you test this kernel for us?
[10:33] <infinity> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/linux-image-2.6.12-8-686_2.6.12-8.13_i386.deb
[10:34] <infinity> (I've been running on my machine for about a day with no lockups yet)
[10:34] <hunger> infinity: sure... on friday or so.
[10:34] <infinity> Kay, the more people who say it's all good, the better.
[10:34] <hunger> infinity: I probably won't have network access with the laptop till then.
[10:34] <infinity> If my machine stays up for another day or two, I'm calling it "good", though.
[10:35] <hunger> infinity: It will be better than the "normal" ubuntu kernel in any case;-)
[10:35] <hunger> infinity: 2.6.13 is a nice kernel, dunno whether I'll head back for some modules I build myself already anyway.
[10:36] <infinity> We'd still appreciate the testing, though, even if you dont plan on running the stock kernel.
[10:36] <infinity> Pretty please. :)
[10:37] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[10:37] <jsgotangco> i can prolly test that deb now
[10:37] <jsgotangco> and make it run for a few days
[10:38] <hunger> infinity: Sure, I will test it once I can get my laptop online again.
[10:38] <fabbione> guys feel free to test it
[10:38] <fabbione> but remember that's not final.. do there might be more changes before release
[10:38] <fabbione> so remember to upgrade it
[10:39] <hunger> infinity: It sucks that I have no internet here... well except for my tiny little tunnel through the firewall of this bank;-)
[10:40] <jsgotangco> hmm is it usable in hoary? or do i have to install it in breezy
[10:41] <infinity> breezy would be preferable.  Brrezy kernels on hoary break things in subtle ways.
[10:44] <fabbione> infinity: they break. full stop
[10:44] <fabbione> there are too many pkgs you need from breezy
[10:45] <fabbione> i need to figure a way to make the kernel for release+1 completely uninstallable on release
[10:46] <infinity> Versioned dep on lsb-release, but.. Uhh.. Please don't. :)
[10:46] <infinity> That's just vile.
[10:46] <fabbione> infinity: no, that's too easy to workaround
[10:46] <fabbione> i need something really hardcore
[10:48] <hunger> fabbione: apt-get -y distupgrade in pre-inst? ;-)
[10:49] <fabbione> hunger: no. that won't work because the pkg db is locked during an installation and it can't be made available to another session at the same time
[10:49] <fabbione> i was more thinking of an hash on some files...
[10:49] <fabbione> checked at boot time..
[10:49] <hunger> fabbine: Forcing an upgrade is *REALLY* evil, too;-)
[10:49] <fabbione> and that will kprint the hell of warnings everywhere.
[10:50] <hunger> fabbione: Which files are guaranteed to stay stable during a releasecycle?
[10:50] <fabbione> till you will be so tired of them that you must reboot with the proper kernel :)
[10:50] <fabbione> hunger: a bunch
[10:51] <fabbione> on fresh install i could just use sources.list
[10:51] <fabbione> so as soon as you add one extra repo, i will refuse to boot :P
[10:52] <hunger> fabbione: Require a TPM and use the trusted grub;-)
[10:52] <hunger> fabbione: Imagine all the PR: "Ubuntu looks down software even before MS managed to do it!" ;-)
[10:52] <fabbione> that won't work either.. grub loads dynamically a set of files
[10:52] <Treenaks> hm, my laptop has a TPM chip...
[10:53] <fabbione> Treenaks: quite a lot do...
[10:53] <Treenaks> fabbione: linuxbios + TPM :)
[10:53] <sivang> morning all
[10:53] <hunger> fabbione: Not the trusted one... loads only stuff that matches MD5 sums that are locked to a TPM.
[10:53] <sivang> (or g'afternoon)
[10:53] <Treenaks> hey sivan
[10:53] <sivang> yo Treenaks 
[10:53] <sivang> fabbione: hello
[10:53] <fabbione> hi sivang
[10:53] <hunger> Treenaks: Linuxbios is not TPM compatible AFAIK.
[10:54] <Mithrandir> fabbione: uhm, what are you trying to accomplish?
[10:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: make impossible to backport kernel for release foo into release bar
[10:54] <Treenaks> hunger: ... yet ?
[10:54] <hunger> Mithandir: Stop people from using kernels know to be incompatible with their release.
[10:54] <Mithrandir> fabbione: as long as people have the source, you've lost.
[10:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: clearly.. kernel developers should be able to do so
[10:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: never talked about source :P
[10:55] <fabbione> sabdfl: hey.. did you get to test the kernel by any chance?
[10:55] <hunger> Mithrandir: I think fabbione wnats to stoip ubuntu people using ubunut kernel debs only.
[10:55] <fabbione> hunger: uh?
[10:56] <hunger> aehm... stop them using incompatible kernel debs of course:-)
[10:56] <fabbione> hunger: no, i don't want people to run breezy kernel in warty (for example)
[10:56] <fabbione> becuase it breaks
[10:56] <sabdfl> fabbione: +1 so far, am trying to arrange some stress testing today
[10:56] <Mithrandir> fabbione: fix the incompatibilities, then.
[10:56] <sabdfl> continuous LP "make check" runs should do it ;-)
[10:56] <fabbione> and people are not always aware of all the subtle breakage that can happen with kernel/userland mistmatch
[10:56] <hunger> fabbione: Yeap: Ypou want to stop people from using kernel debs that are known to break their release.
[10:56] <fabbione> Mithrandir: you can't
[10:57] <fabbione> sabdfl: cool! thanks for testing
[10:57] <fabbione> hunger: exactly.
[10:57] <fabbione> hunger: it's not meant to be in bad way
[10:57] <fabbione> it's meant to protect user to do stupid things
[10:57] <hunger> fabbione: Which was what I was trying to say to Mithrandir (and obviously failed to convey).
[10:57] <fabbione> sabdfl: ehehhe.. 
[10:58] <fabbione> i need to checkout LP once for fun
[10:58] <Mithrandir> fabbione: express it in the package dependency system
[10:58] <hunger> LP?
[10:59] <Mithrandir> hunger: no, I think you/he is trying to solve the problem in the wrong way.
[10:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it can be easily overriden
[10:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, and so?
[10:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that won't solve the problem
[10:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: dude, people can fuck their system if they try hard to .  You can't stop them.
[10:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that's true.. 
[11:00] <Mithrandir> make it obvious that it's what they're doing, but if they proceed, well, then they do it at their own risk.
[11:00] <hunger> fabbione: I think Mithrandir has a point: You can't stop people from being stupid. You just should try to protect them by default.
[11:00] <[Chameleon] > fabbione: can you simple parse the /etc/lsb-release file and check version in a pre-install script?
[11:01] <hunger> fabbione: If someone forces a kernel to get installed then he must expect problems... and he will probably mess with your hashes or whatever you come up with, too.
[11:01] <[Chameleon] > s/simple/simply
[11:01] <Mithrandir> making it ~impossible to do stupid things makes it similarly hard to do clever things
[11:01] <fabbione> [Chameleon] : there are tons of way to do that. i need find a reliable one that can't be easily overriden, until you really know what you are doing
[11:02] <fabbione> i do expect people to be able to bypass it
[11:02] <fabbione> but not the average foo user
[11:02] <[Chameleon] > fabbione: you can just prompt. "Are you sure?" then again "Are you REALLY sure?! This is unsupported!"
[11:02] <[Chameleon] >                   ^ and WILL break things!
[11:02] <fabbione> [Chameleon] : the prompt/warning is not the issue.. but how to gather the info required...
[11:02] <[Chameleon] > normal users will heed warnings
[11:03] <[Chameleon] > parse the release file. that's simple enough
[11:03] <[Chameleon] > IMHO
[11:03] <fabbione> [Chameleon] : yes.. but that's easy enough to be overridden :)
[11:03] <fabbione> that's the whole point
[11:03] <Mithrandir> fabbione: why is that a problem, really?
[11:04] <fabbione> Mithrandir: because a lot of users have been playing backports, broken their systems and come back with the most desperate bugs that nobody was able to understand
[11:04] <fabbione> till we figured their were running whatever unknown backport repository
[11:04] <fabbione> = a lot of time spent for really hard to support configs
[11:04] <hunger> fabbione: I think it would be better if you could collect data about the release for the bugreport so that you know you can close it because the users were stupid.
[11:05] <bob2> refuse to fix weird bugs unless you see a sources.list ad dpkg -l output
[11:05] <fabbione> hunger: eh.. if it only was that simple...
[11:05] <fabbione> they still reopen bugs and complain and blablabla
[11:06] <hunger> fabbione: Sure... but what makes you think making it harder for them to install a broken kernel will stop stupid people from being a pain?
[11:06] <fabbione> hunger: it's a balance 
[11:06] <fabbione> i make it harder for him to break his system
[11:07] <Mithrandir> I guess the backporters are just going to rip out that protection anyhow
[11:07] <fabbione> i warn him a few extra times
[11:07] <fabbione> at that point i feel much less guilty to wave him kthxbye
[11:07] <hunger> fabbione: You come up with something clever... next day there will be a wiki page about how to get around the fabbione-bossyness and the day after you get your bugreports.
[11:08] <hunger> fabbione: There will be some namecalling about you taking the freedom to ruin your system, too.
[11:09] <fabbione> hunger: that's the same kind of namecalling when we smash systems by mistake
[11:09] <fabbione> so they have no point in the latter
[11:09] <[Chameleon] > back, was taking care of laundry
[11:09] <fabbione> yes.. there might be a wiki page...
[11:10] <[Chameleon] > um, I think that if you throw up warnings for ppl trying to override, you've done due dilligence
[11:10] <fabbione> [Chameleon] : right..
[11:11] <sivang> pitti: [Chameleon]  pointed out out to me the other day, about the non showing "enable IPP browsing in g-c-m" , I discovered it was eventually due to not running as root or sudo'd , why is g-c-m not asking to gain sudo rights anymore?
[11:11] <sivang> pitti: so the scripts are now there, but unless you sudo g-c-m you cannot use it
[11:17] <pitti> sivang: g-c-m was never supposed to run as root
[11:17] <pitti> sivang: as long as the user is in group lpadmin, he can talk to cups
[11:17] <[Chameleon] > should users be in that group by default?
[11:18] <bob2> they are
[11:18] <pitti> [Chameleon] : the first user is
[11:18] <[Chameleon] > I didn't have to modify my groups in Hoary to modify the Detect LAN Printers option
[11:18] <[Chameleon] > hmm
[11:19] <[Chameleon] > my user is marked as having the priveledge to setup printers.
[11:19] <[Chameleon] > yet running the System > Admin > Printing app does not prompt for a password and does not display the menu for LAN Detection
[11:20] <[Chameleon] > (unless run from terminal with sudo)
[11:21] <[Chameleon] > just tried on my wife's Ubuntu machine. It does not prompt (as you said), but the Detect LAN Printers menu is available.
[11:21] <[Chameleon] > Hoary
[11:25] <Mithrandir> mvo: what's the state of the patch in the last message in 8265?
[11:27] <sivang> pitti: sure, but then it can't access /usr/share/cups I think
[11:27] <sivang> pitti: so we might want to make this location chgrp'd for lpadmin ?
[11:28] <pitti> sivang: hm? /usr/share/cups is world readable
[11:28] <sivang> pitti: weird, I get permission denied
[11:28] <sivang> pitti: I'll recheck
[11:28] <[Chameleon] > paul@Chameleon:/usr/share$ ls -l | grep -i cups
[11:28] <[Chameleon] > drwxr-xr-x     9 root root  4096 2005-09-05 02:41 cups
[11:28] <sivang> pitti: do you get the LAN detection menu ?
[11:29] <pitti> sivang: hum, no
[11:29] <pitti> sivang: somehow this has broken
[11:29] <sivang> pitti: ok, I will try to find it and fix it then
[11:29] <mvo> Mithrandir: pretty good, I can upload it today 
[11:29] <Mithrandir> mvo: thanks
[11:29] <pitti> sivang: ah, I know the reason
[11:29] <sivang> pitti: ok, what is it ? :)
[11:29] <pitti> sivang: -rw-------  1 cupsys lpadmin 22911 2005-06-23 13:49 /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
[11:30] <sivang> bah
[11:30] <pitti> sivang: this file needs to be 640, not 600
[11:30] <sivang> pitti: so lpadmin could write to it as well..?
[11:30] <pitti> sivang: no, not write, but read
[11:30] <pitti> 640, not 660
[11:31] <sivang> pitti: oh, since you write changes to the included snippet.
[11:31] <pitti> sivang: no, that requires root privs (g-c-m asks for gksudo, remember?(
[11:32] <sivang> pitti: since I upgraded to breezy it never asked me..
[11:33] <[Chameleon] > ditto
[11:33] <[Chameleon] > didn't need priveledges in Hoary
[11:33] <sivang> pitti: ah no, you're right. we didn't get the menu item so there was no need :)
[11:36] <[Chameleon] > changing that file is not enough
[11:36] <[Chameleon] > it seems
[11:36] <[Chameleon] > I changed the permissions, which did cause the menu item to show up
[11:36] <[Chameleon] > It is currently enabled due to my setting it under sudo previously
[11:37] <[Chameleon] > however, when I then try to modify that setting, I am prompted by gksudo, which I proceed through, then a dialog box warning of security implications is shown...
[11:38] <pitti> [Chameleon] : that's fine
[11:38] <[Chameleon] > Neither OK or Cancel result in the option being altered
[11:38] <[Chameleon] > that's what is not fine
[11:38] <sivang> hmm
[11:38] <pitti> uh, not? please file a bug about that then
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > OK
[11:39] <sivang> [Chameleon] : assign it to me , if you may :)
[11:39] <pitti> I'm currently busy, will deal with that later
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > sivang: I don't have the ability to assign bugs it seems.
[11:39] <sivang> [Chameleon] : ah ok
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > when I tried before, it said I could not
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > but, I will CC you
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > :)
[11:39] <sivang> [Chameleon] : thanks
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > np
[11:39] <pitti> [Chameleon] : don't worry, I will see the bug no matter who it is assigned to
[11:39] <[Chameleon] > thank you both
[11:39] <\sh> morning
[11:40] <sivang> [Chameleon] : thank you for spotting this up
[11:40] <[Chameleon] > np
[11:40] <sivang> pitti: can you assign it to me when you see it?
[11:40] <[Chameleon] > we can thank my wife! she's the printer!
[11:40] <[Chameleon] > I hate paper.
[11:40] <[Chameleon] > hehe
[11:40] <pitti> sivang: for my sake, but I think I have a fairly good idea where to look for the bug
[11:40] <Treenaks> [Chameleon] : you married a printer?!
[11:41] <[Chameleon] > LOL, might as well have...
[11:41] <[Chameleon] > our office is covered in paper!
[11:41] <\sh> seb128_: ping can I send a SIGUSR2 to the gamin server and to the gnome-panel as gamin client to get a good debug output? 
[11:43] <sivang> pitti: ok then, np
[11:43] <seb128_> \sh: should do the trick yep
[11:45] <\sh> seb128_: I see it now
[11:46] <\sh> seb128_: when we're talking about /usr/share/applications does it mean "check recursively" for the gamin_server?
[11:48] <doko> infinity, lamont: what's the current state of OOo2? if it's currently not building, please retry it, some error during the setup of the b-d's
[11:49] <pef> hi
[11:49] <[Chameleon] > hello
[11:49] <\sh> moins mvo 
[11:49] <mvo> \sh: hi
[11:51] <sivang> hey mvo 
[11:55] <mvo> sivang: hi
[11:55] <seb128_> \sh: probably not
[11:57] <\sh> seb128_: ok...I see that it tries to examine the /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu but I don't see gamin pulling any kde-applications.menu...that could mean, that gnome-panel doesn't request those files?
[11:58] <seb128_> no
[11:58] <seb128_> the .menu defines the categories, the structure of the menu etc
[11:58] <seb128_> gnome-panel use the GNOME layout, not the KDE
[11:59] <\sh> seb128_: ok..so everything which is defined in these xdg menu files and has a match in the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/ should be pulled in...even those kde/*.desktop ones 
[12:01] <seb128_> the code has some special case for KDELegacy
[12:01] <seb128_> gnome-menus has a debian/patches/03_kde-legacydirs.diff
[12:01] <seb128_> -  <KDELegacyDirs/>
[12:01] <seb128_> but I don't think that's the issue
[12:01] <seb128_> some users have the issue with pan too
[12:01] <mvo> mjg59: is there a way to detect that usplash is runing?
[12:01] <seb128_> which is installed to /usr/share/gnome/apps/Internet/
[12:01] <mvo> mjg59: in a init script that is
[12:02] <\sh> seb128_: in the /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu there are the LegacyDirs defined
[12:02] <\sh> seb128_: <LegacyDir>/usr/share/gnome/apps</LegacyDir>
[12:02] <seb128_> I know
[12:02] <seb128_> and KDE has a special one coded from the sources too
[12:03] <mjg59> mvo: No. Why?
[12:03] <mjg59> Well, other than pidof usplash
[12:03] <mvo> mjg59: for #14691
[12:04] <\sh> seb128_: so where do I have to look ;) or do u have a suspicion?
[12:04] <mvo> mjg59: I would like to skip setting the console-font for vc0 if usplash is runing
[12:04] <seb128_> \sh: no suspision, no
[12:04] <mjg59> mvo: Uhm. So is the call only relevant if it's a VGA terminal, or is it just the difference between graphical and text mode?
[12:05] <mvo> mjg59: it looks like it's the difference between graphical or text-mode 
[12:05] <\sh> seb128_: i will restart the session now..to see what it does in the beginning
[12:06] <seb128> k
[12:07] <\sh> brb
[12:07] <mjg59> mvo: pidof is about the best I can offer you, I'm afraid
[12:07] <mvo> mjg59: ok, fair enough
[12:07] <mjg59> More sensible would be to check whether the screen is in graphical mode and not error in that case, I'd guess - that way it doesn't end up being usplash specific
[12:08] <mvo> mjg59: right, I'll have a closer look
[12:10] <\sh> seb128: I have it
[12:10] <\sh> seb128: when I restarted the complete sessions I can see that gnome-panel is trying to fetch all dirs (even the subdirs like kde or Development) 
[12:11] <\sh> seb128: now I'm waiting for the disappearing
[12:11] <seb128> k
[12:13] <mvo> mjg59: does usplash do any video mode switching on it's own?
[12:14] <mjg59> It uses bogl
[12:15] <mjg59> Which does, by the looks of it
[12:18] <mvo> mjg59: looking at the code it's doing a lot of interessting things. haven't seen so many outbs in a while :)
[12:18] <mjg59> vga16 is like that, sadly
[12:20] <mvo> mjg59: so it looks like it's setting up it's very own video mode and bypassing the framebuffer more or less? 
[12:41] <\sh> seb128: disappeared ;)
[12:46] <\sh> seb128: u need the debug file to see it happening?
[12:49] <mjg59> mvo: You have to for vga16
[12:50] <mjg59> The only thing the driver gives you is access to the framebuffer
[01:04] <seb128> \sh: probably yep
[01:08] <\sh> seb128: done it's attached to #14967
[01:09] <jordi> doko: dude?
[01:09] <jordi> doko: you ping me and never replied
[01:09] <seb128> jordi: are you registred? maybe he didn't get your pong
[01:09] <jordi> doh
[01:10] <jordi> fucking stupid thing
[01:10] <jordi> doko: ah well. I had an ispellcat nearly ready for upload.
[01:10] <jordi> I just had to fix an issue with the has autogeneration.
[01:14] <hunger> Can I change the resolution used by usplash somehow?
[01:17] <mvo> hunger: no
[01:21] <hunger> mvo: Are you sure? I read something like "use center 640x480 pixels independent of fb size" or something similar.
[01:22] <hunger> mvo: In the changelog that is... don't have my laptop handy, can't check right now though.
[01:24] <pitti> infinity: any chance to disable royal? I still need to g-b packages...
[01:25] <mvo> hunger: it uses vga16, I don't think you will be able to change the resolution. the change you mentioned seem to be cfb (powerpc) specific
[01:25] <mvo> hunger: or is your laptop a ppc?
[01:25] <hunger> mvo: Oh, that explains it then:-)
[01:26] <hunger> mvo: Nope. I had assumed usplash to use the fbdev, not vga16.
[01:26] <mvo> hunger: ok :) 
[01:30] <\sh> infinity: can u give me a short update on ghc6 upload? :) 
[01:30] <Diziet> What's our usual approach to new bugfix upstreams of say firefox ?
[01:31] <doko> jordi: sorry, anyway. Thought you wouldn't mind that much about the NMU.
[01:31] <jordi> doko: nope.
[01:32] <seb128> \sh: 
[01:32] <seb128> inotify: resource /usr/share/applications/kde went away. Adding it to missing list
[01:32] <seb128> inotify: Emitting Deleted on /usr/share/applications/kde
[01:32] <seb128> inotify: got an event for unknown wd 55
[01:32] <seb128> \sh: seems to be an inotify bug
[01:32] <\sh> seb128: hmm
[01:32] <bob2> firefox's concept of "bugfix releases" is pretty broad
[01:32] <Kamion> hunger: that change was generic, but vga16 framebuffers are always 640x480 so it's a no-op there. If usplash ever starts using other framebuffer types on i386/amd64, it will apply to them
[01:32] <bob2> including "breaking extension API"
[01:33] <Kamion> Diziet: roughly "treat with extreme caution, especially if it's firefox, but sometimes we have to give up because its security fixes are impossible to backport"
[01:33] <\sh> seb128: ok..now you have your bad boy ;)
[01:34] <pitti> Diziet: for breezy we should generally allow them, to make further backporting easier
[01:34] <Kamion> we've been burnt before by taking a firefox bugfix release at the last minute
[01:34] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[01:34] <\sh> seb128: but what if gnome-panel as gamin client is adding those dirs again? it should, right?
[01:34] <Kamion> but as pitti says we may not get a choice
[01:34] <pitti> it was a similar hell to make warty halfway work again with the 0.9.3->1.0.6 upgrade
[01:34] <jordi> pitti: what can we do about the Kurdish guys not having a locale?
[01:35] <pitti> jordi: add it to libc?
[01:35] <seb128> \sh: no it should not, inotify/gamin said the directory went away, no point to monitor a non-folder
[01:35] <jordi> pitti: who writes it? :)
[01:35] <jordi> pitti: got my email/know anything about CAN assignment?
[01:36] <pitti> jordi: I got your mail, looked fine. You didn't get an answer yet?
[01:36] <\sh> seb128: as this is not the truth...inotify is in the kernel, right?
[01:36] <mjg59> Yes
[01:36] <jordi> pitti: no
[01:36] <sivang> mjg59: it's a kernel interface right?
[01:37] <seb128> \sh: right, but maybe that's a bug with the gamin code for inotify
[01:37] <jordi> pitti: I guess I should upload now.
[01:37] <pitti> jordi: I think you should get an answer by this evening, but if you already want to upload, just go ahead
[01:37] <mjg59> sivang: Yes
[01:37] <pitti> jordi: you can always add the CAN to the changelog later
[01:37] <Diziet> kamion: Hmm.  I've just had an email from them about their `upcoming 1.0.7 security release'./
[01:37] <jordi> pitti: I will then.
[01:39] <seb128> \sh: could you package gamin 0.1.6 and figure if you get the issue with it?
[01:39] <\sh> Mithrandir / maswan: can u please install on ravel breezy chroot: debmake glade-2 bison
[01:40] <pitti> Diziet: any concrete date?
[01:40] <\sh> seb128: I can try :) 
[01:40] <seb128> \sh: I planned to not upgrade because 0.1.5 works quite fine and new version has a bunch of changes/rewrittable but that's worth knowing if it fixes it
[01:41] <Diziet> pitti: They're freezing today.
[01:41] <pitti> Diziet: ok, so it has a chance to go into Breezy?
[01:41] <Diziet> They're asking me `do I mind if they don't include this fix' (the textarea segfault) which obviously I don't mind but I think they're probably making a mistake.
[01:41] <Diziet> Well, yes, but I'm not sure how late we'd want to take one.
[01:41] <pitti> Diziet: the 1.0.6->1.0.7 upgrade should be much less painful than warty's beta version juggling
[01:42] <seb128> Diziet: you are maintaining firefox package atm?
[01:42] <pitti> Diziet: if they release by next week, that should be fine
[01:43] <Diziet> I haven't found out their schedule yet, but I would have hoped they would.
[01:43] <\sh> seb128: working on it...
[01:43] <seb128> \sh: thanks
[01:43] <seb128> \sh: according to the code the debug is when inotify send a delete signal for the folder... I'm wondering why that happens
[01:44] <seb128> \sh: have you an idea on what trigger the bug? dist-upgrade? package install or removal?
[01:44] <Kamion> elmo: please sync groff 1.18.1.1-10 from incoming; mdz OKed it last night
[01:44] <\sh> seb128: nothing...I just restarted the session...and did nothing at all...running gnome-terminal, firefox and evolution
[01:45] <\sh> seb128: did gam_inotify.c: In function 'mask_to_gam_event':
[01:45] <\sh> gam_inotify.c:259: error: 'IN_MOVE_SELF' undeclared (first use in this function)
[01:45] <\sh> gam_inotify.c:259: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
[01:45] <Kamion> 2005-09-13 11:36:18 GMT Colin Watson <colin.watson@canonical.com>       patch-153
[01:45] <\sh> say anything to you?
[01:45] <Kamion>     Summary:
[01:45] <Kamion> ogra: ^--
[01:45] <Kamion>       Edubuntu: re-enable IP address preseeding (requires cdebconf 0.84ubuntu6); switch to 192.168.0.2 to work around netcfg bug
[01:45] <ogra> yay
[01:45] <ogra> Kamion, thanls a lot :)
[01:45] <ogra> thanks even
[01:45] <Kamion> no problem
[01:46] <ogra> Kamion, i have some reports that the server bootoption doesnt work for the CD ... did you disable it ? 
[01:47] <Diziet> pitti, Kamion: thanks.  We'll see what they say.
[01:47] <Kamion> ogra: you told me to rename it to edubuntu
[01:47] <ogra> i'm not particulary after having a server option on the Cd if it generates work, but i'll have to fix the introduction text...
[01:47] <seb128> \sh: nop
[01:47] <Kamion> ogra: if you want me to re-add a server option, I'll do that
[01:48] <Kamion> ogra: (server meaning "base system only")
[01:48] <ogra> Kamion, if its easy done, yes, if it takes time, no, then i'll just submit a fixed intro text
[01:48] <ogra> yup...
[01:48] <Kamion> it's straightforward, I'll do it now
[01:48] <ogra> ok, thanks
[01:48] <\sh>  IN_MOVE_SELF the same as IN_DELETE_SELF
[01:48] <\sh> hmmm
[01:48] <seb128> Diziet: could you push this change with the next upload: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8680 ? xfce guys would be happy to have a desktop running without gnome libs used
[01:49] <Diziet> seb: Looking at it now.
[01:50] <mvo> Kamion: do you have a idea how we could fail more gracefully in #13713? some sort of timeout maybe?
[01:50] <seb128> Diziet: the changed the dh_install to exclude imgicon, modified the .install ... and there is probably a Replaces to put too. That should get ride of the firefox depends on GNOME
[01:50] <seb128> Diziet: thanks
[01:50] <\sh> seb128: i have to patch this 
[01:51] <\sh> seb128: it pulls in linux/inotify.h but #define IN_MOVE_SELF           0x00000800      /* Self was moved */
[01:51] <\sh> is not defined in there
[01:52] <Diziet> seb: That doesn't look too hard.  Sure, I'll put it in my upload this afternoon.
[01:52] <seb128> Diziet: thank you
[01:52] <Diziet> I'll let you know if I come across a snag that means I have to bail on it.
[01:53] <seb128> k
[01:53] <Kamion> ogra: done
[01:53] <Kamion> mvo: perhaps you could just fail rather than prompting if stdin is not a tty, and I could redirect aptitude's stdin from /dev/null in base-config?
[01:55] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[01:56] <\sh> ok..restarting session
[01:56] <\sh> brb
[01:59] <mvo> Kamion: I could change that in aptitude (it has it's own MediaChange code). would that mean that cd-only server installs always fail? because there is no network fallback for the needed packages?
[02:00] <Kamion> mvo: no, CD-only server installs still copy a few .debs to the hard disk so that it all works
[02:00] <Kamion> mvo: it only breaks if (a) there's a bug or (b) if you deliberately skip the code that makes it work, as some people seem to feel the need to do :-)
[02:01] <\sh> seb128: strange...sending SIGUSR2 to the new gamin doesn't give me any debug output file anymore
[02:03] <mvo> Kamion: ok, that sounds reasonable, thanks. I'll add a comment to the bug and implmenent the needed change in aptitude
[02:04] <Kamion> mvo: Great, thanks. There's nothing else in apt/aptitude that will fall over if I redirect stdin from /dev/null, is there?
[02:04] <Kamion> actually I guess I could just try that out now
[02:04] <mvo> Kamion: I don't think there will, but it's certainly better if you try it :)
[02:05] <seb128> \sh: there is no upstream bug about that :/
[02:05] <seb128> \sh: how quick do you have the issue? does it happen with the "pan" entry too?
[02:06] <\sh> seb128: it takes sometime...for the last debug session it was 30 mins
[02:06] <seb128> \sh: I maybe known why I've not the issue, I still use 2.6.12-3-k7
[02:06] <seb128> s/known/know/
[02:06] <seb128> lemme try with an update linux package
[02:06] <seb128> if that's it, that due to inotify code
[02:07] <\sh> seb128: ok...I don't get a debug output at all...so I'm just waiting for something to happen ;)
[02:07] <seb128> that's fine too
[02:07] <seb128> \sh: we just need to know if that happens with it too
[02:07] <Kronoss> hi
[02:08] <\sh> seb128: yeah
[02:16] <pablof> what filesystem i use mounting initrd ?
[02:19] <\sh> seb128: inotify: resource /usr/share/gnome/apps/Applications went away. Adding it to missing list
[02:19] <\sh> inotify: Emitting Deleted on /usr/share/gnome/apps/Applications
[02:19] <\sh> inotify-missing: add - /usr/share/gnome/apps/Applications
[02:19] <\sh> inotify: got IGNORED event for unknown wd 23
[02:21] <seb128> \sh: how did you got the debug mode?
[02:21] <\sh> seb128: it took some time that gamin was creating it
[02:22] <seb128> \sh: that's not the same message than before ... does it bug or not?
[02:22] <\sh> seb128: not now
[02:23] <\sh> seb128: I'm waiting for the kde stuff
[02:23] <seb128> do you have pan installed?
[02:23] <\sh> seb128: no...but I can...moment
[02:23] <seb128> yes please
[02:24] <seb128> so you can note if it has the same issue than KDE entries
[02:24] <\sh> seb128: but with 0.1.6 i have panel crashes again :
[02:24] <\sh> (
[02:25] <seb128> not cool
[02:26] <\sh> that's right
[02:28] <hunger> fabbione: Where was that kernel of yours again?
[02:28] <hunger> fabbione: The one we should test with SATA?
[02:28] <spacey> mvo, you there?
[02:29] <fabbione> hunger: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/
[02:29] <hunger> fabbione: Thanks!
[02:29] <fabbione> hunger: linux-image-2.6.12-8-686_2.6.12-8.13_i386.deb
[02:30] <mvo> spacey: yes
[02:32] <spacey> mvo, remember what we talked about friday?
[02:33] <mvo> spacey: about the i18n patches?
[02:33] <spacey> no
[02:33] <ivoks> fabbione: sata problems?
[02:33] <mvo> spacey: then no, please help me :)
[02:33] <spacey> about working on ubuntu for my school/study
[02:33] <mvo> spacey: right, rings a bell now
[02:34] <spacey> i got reply from my school, and its probably OK. But need to state my activities clearly, and need someone for guidance/supervising. and the difficulty should be high enough
[02:34] <spacey> you know who i should contact about this?
[02:34] <mvo> spacey: I think JaneW might be a good person to talk to
[02:35] <mvo> JaneW: around?
[02:36] <spacey> oh and i have to learn something new.
[02:36] <mvo> spacey: but I think that shouldn't be a prolbem. at least the "learn something new and it must be difficult" bits ;)
[02:37] <mvo> spacey: the good thing is that you can more-or-less choose what to work on (or at least in what area). do you already thought about what interessts you most?
[02:38] <JaneW> yes
[02:40] <JaneW> mvo: with a month to the release will anyone be prepared to act as a mentor?
[02:40] <JaneW> mvo: even the Google SoC was tough at times and that's already wrapped
[02:40] <mvo> JaneW: *nod*, we probably can't do that before the release. spacey, when does your work has to start?
[02:41] <spacey> it would start in november till end of januari
[02:42] <ajmitch> so around the time of UBZ, I guess
[02:42] <mvo> spacey, JaneW: that should match pretty well with our development cycle
[02:42] <spacey> have to look up the exact dates, but it ends end of jan. and it its like 9 weeks
[02:43] <spacey> starts in november i'm sure
[02:44] <JaneW> mvo, spacey : that;s good news :)
[02:44] <JaneW> spacey: you should probably try for a bounty...?
[02:45] <JaneW> spacey: assuming you have some skills already...
[02:45] <spacey> JaneW, i'll look at that as well, but besides that i would like to master packaging stuff, generel development. school demands that i need to learn something new in any way
[02:46] <spacey> JaneW, my coding skills are quiet limited unfortunately
[02:46] <\sh> seb128: until now, no disappearing ... but I can see some issues, that inotify wants to delete the dirs..but readds them again
[02:47] <mvo> spacey: may I ask what school/subject you do? 
[02:48] <hunger> fabbione: Running your kernel now. Let's see how stable it is:-)
[02:48] <spacey> Informatica (dutch name), IT stuff, i can code somewhat but not my strong point, but i know the basics
[02:49] <fabbione> hunger: thanks for testing
[02:49] <seb128> \sh: k, so inotify has some issue and gamin handle that it seems?
[02:50] <\sh> seb128: looks like...0.1.6 that is now
[02:50] <spacey> mvo, as a side job i deploy linux stuff, and in general i'm at least advanced user/admin, but want to pick up the development stuff, would be great if i can do that for school/ubuntu
[02:50] <\sh> seb128: and for 0.1.6 u have to patch something in server/gam_inotify.c
[02:50] <seb128> \sh: but you get panel crashes?
[02:50] <\sh> seb128: when I installed pan
[02:51] <seb128> do you have the backtrace?
[02:52] <\sh> seb128: from panel? no :( 
[02:52] <\sh> seb128: I try to reproduce it now
[02:53] <spacey> JaneW, bounties mostly seem for breezy/advanced coding stuff atm
[02:53] <seb128> \sh: I've a 5M debug file with no "went away" message running for like an hour
[02:53] <\sh> seb128: hmmm....
[02:53] <\sh> seb128: what is it...really strange
[02:54] <\sh> seb128: aha..
[02:54] <\sh> seb128: I removed pan and all the good stuff is disappearing ;)
[02:54] <\sh> weired
[02:54] <seb128> you get the bug?
[02:54] <\sh> seb128: yes
[02:55] <seb128> I'm installing linux-image-2.6.12-8-k7 atm
[02:55] <seb128> I bet it's a inotify bog
[02:55] <\sh> seb128: should I send u the file or attach it to the bugzilla entry?
[02:55] <seb128> bugzilla rather
[02:55] <\sh> k
[02:56] <spacey> mvo, should be something to do right? :o
[02:57] <pitti> ogra: is universe frozen in any way? i. e. would it hurt if I uploaded the package from my SoC student to universe?
[02:58] <mvo> spacey: there is plenty to do, you may look at the specs on the wiki or start by stoping over at ubuntu-motu and help with e.g. transitions to get a feeling for the various things to do :)
[02:58] <ogra> pitti, if it doesnt brak anything else, its fine to upload
[02:58] <ogra> break even
[02:59] <pitti> ogra: no, it's just a new application
[02:59] <ogra> pitti, go ahead then :)
[02:59] <\sh> seb128: done
[03:00] <spacey> mvo, specs for breezy+1 or what do you mean? i will try to make a list of things i can do, could you review it if i finished to see if i missed some possibilities?
[03:03] <mvo> spacey: yes, I can do a review. how many hours/week will you have?
[03:04] <spacey> well normally a project would last for 9 weeks (officially 40 hours a week).
[03:05] <mvo> ok
[03:06] <spacey> but i guess it will be spread out a little more
[03:06] <Kamion> mvo: redirecting from /dev/null seems to be working OK, although I've yet to try an install that asks a debconf question
[03:06] <Kamion> if it works, I'll upload that
[03:06] <ajmitch> spacey: I guess you'd need to focus on some specific task, right?
[03:08] <spacey> ajmitch, well i don't think thats neccesary but at least some main tasks i guess
[03:08] <mvo> Kamion: thanks! apt is not dealing with with possibility of a cdrom method failing ATM, but I'm on it
[03:16] <infinity> Meh.
[03:16] <infinity> pitti : Is royal still acting up?
[03:16] <mdke>  [14:07:31]  < Bob_Sheep> aww
[03:16] <mdke> gah
[03:16] <mdke> i hate these touchpads
[03:17] <HrdwrBoB> all touchpads
[03:17] <HrdwrBoB> they suck
[03:17] <Lathiat> theyre better than nipples
[03:17] <mdke> i have hiccups and whenever I hiccup I risk pasting random stuff into the chan :(
[03:17] <Lathiat> take middle click off heh
[03:29] <linuxsbartley> I am trying to do a server install of 5.10 and then use xdm & xfce.  On 5.04 this was as simple as installing server, followed by x-window-system-core, xterm.  Then using Universe, installing xdm and xfce4 then rebooting.  The system would come back up w/ xdm & xfce.  On 5.10, I followed the exact same process.  The system tries to go to the xdm gui but fails and drops me to Alt-F8 w/ a message of "Starting X display manager.
[03:30] <linuxsbartley> I have done a dpkg -l on both installs and compared.
[03:30] <linuxsbartley> Nothing sticks out as "missing" from the 5.10 installation.
[03:30] <linuxsbartley> My logic tells me then that there is something wrong with the 5.10 xdm or some other package.
[03:31] <infinity> Does X work if you manually start it?
[03:31] <linuxsbartley> w/out xdm installed, I can get X to work.
[03:31] <linuxsbartley> i.e. I can manually start xfce
[03:31] <linuxsbartley> As soon as xdm is installed, xfce fails to start as well.
[03:32] <ogra> linuxsbartley, is the xinit package up to date ? there was a bug with Xsession not being executalble recently
[03:32] <ogra> afaik xdm aprses that...
[03:33] <ogra> parses too :)
[03:33] <linuxsbartley> hm.  Well, it was as of yesterday afternoon if the updated version was in the repository.
[03:34] <linuxsbartley> 1.0+0.99.1-2
[03:34] <ogra> yes, thats the fixed version
[03:35] <linuxsbartley> k. 
[03:38] <linuxsbartley> I have tried adding some echo "Reached Xaccess" >> /tmp/xdm.log  type commands to each of the xdm called scripts.  Nothing is output.  I have also started xdm manually with the -error switch to specify the error log file being /var/log/xdm.log.  When I do this, I do get some logged errors.
[03:40] <linuxsbartley> The first error is "Couldn't connect to PRNGD socket "/tmp/entropy": No such file or directory.
[03:41] <linuxsbartley> Then several messages about Skipping ".....": No symbols found
[03:41] <linuxsbartley> Several Warning: font renderer already registered
[03:42] <Zomb> hi
[03:42] <linuxsbartley> and finally, /usr/lib/X11/xdm/libXdmGreet.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory while loading /usr/lib/X11/xdm/libXdmGreet.so
[03:42] <sivang> hey Zomb 
[03:43] <ogra> linuxsbartley, locate libXdmGreet.so ??
[03:44] <linuxsbartley> ogra, does not exist
[03:44] <HiddenWolf> pitti, ?
[03:44] <Zomb> can someon give a hint how the Hoary live cd is created? I guess: Two PVs, the main file system located on one of them, the system installed there. Then the VG is stopped, then the snapshot is created using the space of the second PV. Then the VG is stopped, the first PV is compressed with cloop, the second (beeing a sparse file) is compressed and stored separately.
[03:44] <Zomb> correct?
[03:45] <pitti> HiddenWolf: yes?
[03:45] <HiddenWolf> pitti, I still have cd's being auto-mounted at boot. That isn't preferred behavior, right?
[03:46] <pitti> HiddenWolf: that's actually supposed to be like this
[03:46] <pitti> HiddenWolf: however, you can configure it in system -> prefs -> removable devices
[03:47] <seb128> pitti: hum, that's supposed to be like this?
[03:47] <HiddenWolf> pitti, it was my understanding what when you pop a cd in, it gets automounted, popped in your face, but when it is already in the drive at boot, it just gets mounted, and no nautilus popup.
[03:48] <pitti> seb128, HiddenWolf: yes, g-v-m attempts to mount all removable devices at startup
[03:48] <seb128> pitti: it should not open a nautilus window on them at login
[03:48] <pitti> HiddenWolf: ah, you mena the nautilus popup? yep, that's a bug
[03:48] <pitti> right
[03:48] <pitti> that's still on my list
[03:48] <seb128> k
[03:48] <pitti> got drawn away by security updates
[03:48] <seb128> if that's a bug for you all is fine :)
[03:48] <HiddenWolf> Oh, I thought you fixed it already, sorry. :)
[03:48] <seb128> I just parsed what you said as "NOTABUG" which supprised me
[03:51] <sivang> seb128: is g-v-m hard to debug?
[03:51] <pitti> sivang: no, it's fairly easy
[03:51] <seb128> ask pitti but I guess it's not
[03:52] <doko> lamont: does yaboot need the gcc-3.3 b-d, or does it work with gcc-3.4 as well?
[03:52] <sivang> pitti: you like strace at it or something?
[03:52] <pitti> sivang: no, gdb is much more fun - or just RTFS
[03:52] <seb128> there is a wiki page
[03:52] <bob2> oops, didn't mean to upgrade libc6
[03:53] <sivang> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices ?
[03:54] <pitti> sivang: yes, that's for answering bug reports
[03:54] <Kamion> Zomb: no, I don't think we use LVM in the process at all
[03:56] <seb128> pitti: what is weird for #13176 ?
[03:56] <Zomb> Kamion: what then?
[03:56] <TheMuso> q
[03:56] <pitti> seb128: see comment #14 - there " autoipod_command = nautilus %h"
[03:56] <Kamion> Zomb: I believe we create the tree with debootstrap/apt-get/etc., dd /dev/zero to a big file, mkfs, losetup, mount, rsync the tree into that mounted filesystem, partimage based on the previous image if we can, then create_compressed_fs
[03:57] <pitti> seb128: however, I have no idea where this setting comes from
[03:57] <pitti> seb128: the system gconf schema does not have it, and ~/.gconf neither
[03:57] <Kamion> doko: I don't want to change yaboot's compiler at this point in the release cycle; it's kinda delicate
[03:57] <Zomb> Kamion: maybe, but AFAIKS the devmapper is used on the live CD and you can modify files on it while the cloop-Image is read-only
[03:57] <Kamion> Zomb: you asked how the live CD was created, not how it runs
[03:58] <seb128> pitti: you asked for .gconf/desktop/gnome/gnome-volume-manager instead of .gconf/desktop/gnome/volume-manager no?
[03:58] <seb128> pitti: volume_manager rather
[03:58] <pitti> seb128: oh, wrong path then?
[03:58] <Zomb> Kamion: ok, alternative question: how is the cloop-Image integrated into the live filesystem
[03:58] <netstar> Where can I speak to people who know about the ppc release?
[03:58] <seb128> pitti: /desktop/gnome/volume_manager
[03:58] <HiddenWolf> netstar, just ask the question, or mail the mailing list.
[03:59] <seb128> pitti: and you ask for "ls .gconf/desktop/gnome/gnome-volume-manager
[03:59] <pitti> seb128: bah, /me stupid
[03:59] <seb128> "
[03:59] <Kamion> Zomb: see casper/pre.d/10filesystem in the casper source package
[03:59] <pitti> seb128: thanks :-)
[03:59] <seb128> pitti: np
[03:59] <Zomb> yeah, I will just study your initrd image
[03:59] <netstar> Does the ppc release support the new Imac G5's?
[03:59] <Kamion> we use dmsetup
[04:00] <Kamion> netstar: I don't know of a reason why it shouldn't, but Apple keep adding hardware to new models that Linux doesn't quite support yet so you'd have to try it and see
[04:00] <Kamion> netstar: try the live cd (boot with the 'live-powerpc64' option)
[04:01] <bddebian> Hello
[04:01] <Kamion> if that works it should be fine
[04:01] <netstar> Does the cd include enough software to compile my own kernel (ppc) ?
[04:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you don't mind me confirming d-i bugs?
[04:02] <linuxsbartley> ogra, any further ideas?  Or, do you know who would be able to help?
[04:02] <mvo> Kamion: with the patch for apt for #13713 the </dev/null fix should work (mdz will probably want to look at the diff first, but it should be sane)
[04:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no
[04:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: go ahead
[04:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oki, thanks.
[04:03] <netstar> Kamion, does the standard install cd include enough software to compile a kernel succesfully?  Or must more be downloaded?
[04:03] <Kamion> mvo: the </dev/null fix can happen first anyway, since the install already breaks at a CD prompt :-)
[04:05] <mvo> Kamion: right :) [fixing this fallback should fix debian #44135 as well and that a bug from 1999] 
[04:05] <Kamion> netstar: the install CD includes basic development tools (though they aren't all installed by default); those should be enough to compile a standard kernel although not enough to compile the Ubuntu kernel package
[04:05] <Kamion> I mean, not enough to build the full package; you should be able to build the actual kernel bit fine
[04:06] <Kamion> mvo: cool
[04:06] <netstar> okay, I'll probably be back later on to annoy you with more questions.
[04:06] <mvo> HiddenWolf: do you mind if I close #15059 ?
[04:06] <netstar> thanks
[04:06] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, bugs such as 2539 should be closed now that we use the non-antique kbd-chooser?
[04:06] <HiddenWolf> mvo, Not really
[04:06] <mvo> HiddenWolf: if you find more out about it, we can reopen always it :)
[04:07] <sivang> fabbione: how do you test partman-auto-lvm changes ? 
[04:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: er, if it works ... I have no idea whether it does or not. FWIW the keyboard names are mostly in console-data not kbd-chooser
[04:08] <Kamion> and I don't remember seeing that particular one changing
[04:09] <jkossen> hmm typo on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/releases/document_view: Upgrades will be supported from enteprise release to enterprise release. (s/enteprise/enterprise)
[04:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, perhaps I'm utterly mistaken then.
[04:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll see if I can reproduce
[04:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's powerpc-specific
[04:10] <Kamion> jkossen: thanks, fixed
[04:10] <HiddenWolf> mvo, exactly
[04:11] <jkossen> Kamion: nice :)
[04:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I know, which means I have to see if I can get my peg to install ubuntu
[04:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: er ... not sure if that'll help; looking at kbd-chooser/usb-kbd.c, it's probably Mac-specific
[04:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I've seen it on the peg before
[04:16] <Kamion> oh, ok
[04:16] <Mithrandir> but that could have changed,
[04:16] <Kamion> well, I'll have a look next time I do a test install on my powerbook
[04:37] <elmo> fabbione: ?
[04:37] <fabbione> elmo: ?
[04:38] <elmo> fabbione: am I good to do b-at?
[04:39] <fabbione> elmo: i didn't upload tetex yet. the problem is sort of bigger than i expected and my workstation died.. i will let you know later on.. but if you want to run, go ahead
[04:39] <fabbione> i must finish to rebuild my ws first
[04:39] <elmo> ok
[04:39] <spacey> mvo, i guess you can't read dutch? :o)
[04:39] <bddebian> elmo!
[04:40] <fabbione> elmo: as i understand it... as it is we can just remove tetex from the archive and see what breaks...
[04:40] <elmo> fabbione: this b-at is a full (i.e. +universe) run, so I'd like to get it started; there'll be a main only b-at run again soon tho
[04:40] <elmo> fabbione: ?!
[04:40] <fabbione> elmo: just start.. don't wait for me
[04:40] <fabbione> elmo: i found over 35 files inside tetex that are bad
[04:40] <elmo> christ
[04:40] <fabbione> they all report stuff like:
[04:41] <fabbione> licence foobar from tetex/latex.whever
[04:41] <fabbione> and 2 lines after:
[04:41] <fabbione> "You are NOT ALLOWED to modify this file"
[04:41] <fabbione> or
[04:41] <sivang> what's b-at ?
[04:41] <fabbione> "You are NOT ALLOWED to make money on top of this file"
[04:41] <fabbione> elmo: most of the stuff is in tetex-extra, but some of it is in tetex-basa
[04:42] <fabbione> base even
[04:42] <fabbione> so run for now, becuase if we need to kick tetex a bit out, we will need to work all together on it :)
[04:42] <elmo> bddebian: ?
[04:42] <fabbione> i won't be enough
[04:42] <elmo> sivang: breezy-autotest - test rebuilds of the archive
[04:42] <fabbione> anyway. i must get my ws fixed first
[04:42] <fabbione> just ping if you need something
[04:43] <bddebian> elmo: You are my hero. :-)  Did you get my huge e-mail last night?
[04:47] <elmo> bddebian: yeah, I'm still catching up on mail tho
[04:47] <bddebian> elmo: NP
[04:52] <elmo> Mithrandir: ?
[04:52] <elmo> Mithrandir: you broke *-desktop; either they need regenerated or readahead needs to provide readahead-list
[04:53] <bddebian> Riddell: ping?
[04:55] <Riddell> bddebian: hi
[04:55] <bddebian> Riddell: Heya.  I'm a little lost (not surprising).  Isn't debtags supposed to provide libdebtags1-dev and libdebtags1-pic?
[04:56] <mbreit> elmo: could you sync ardour from debian unstable please? thanks!
[04:56] <Riddell> bddebian: libdebtags1 should do that
[04:57] <bddebian> Riddell: Sorry, that is what I meant. but the source doesn't show that and we dont have libdebtags1-pic?
[04:57] <elmo> why do you need a -pic?
[04:57] <bddebian> packagesearch 2.0 from Debian
[04:57] <elmo> they're got a very limited use case
[04:57] <Riddell> there's no -pic, but libdebtags1-dev is there
[04:57] <Riddell> it's a static library
[04:58] <bddebian> I guess I could just do packagesearch 1.3 as MoM asks but it seems stupid when 2.0 is there.
[04:59] <Riddell> elmo: could you sync ttf-dejavu (or is there some reason it hasn't been synced?)
[04:59] <elmo> Riddell: we stopped auto-syncing stuff months ago?
[05:01] <Riddell> elmo: it must be newer than I thought then.  could you do it manually?
[05:02] <Riddell> bddebian: packagesearch only build-dep on libdebtags1-dev
[05:02] <Riddell> and qt4 excitingly
[05:03] <bddebian> Riddell: 2.0?
[05:04] <Riddell> yes
[05:04] <Riddell> 2.0.1
[05:04] <bddebian> Ahh, it when to 2.0.1 two days ago.. :-)
[05:05] <bddebian> Err went even
[05:05] <Riddell> fast paced this stuff
[05:06] <bddebian> No shix
[05:14] <mdz> morning
[05:15] <bddebian> Hello mdz
[05:15] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[05:16] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync tdiary? it fixes a security issue and also removes files with problematic licenses
[05:16] <bddebian> mbreit: Are you working on ardour for unmetdeps or the Malone bug?
[05:16] <bddebian> Or both? :-)
[05:17] <bddebian> Heh, packagesearch 2.0.1 FTBFSs..
[05:28] <Riddell> bddebian: what's up with it?
[05:31] <lamont> doko: for breezy, it requires gcc-3.3 (too late to change)
[05:31] <hunger> hey! Apt's print-uris rocks!
[05:31] <Diziet> Wergh.  The entry for `terminal' has disappeared from my testbed's applications menu !
[05:32] <mbreit> bddebian: both
[05:32] <bddebian> mbreit: Great :-)
[05:33] <bddebian> Riddell: packagesearchimpl.cpp:937: error: invalid use of undefined type 'struct Tagcoll::HandleMaker<std::string>'
[05:34] <Diziet> Does anyone have any idea what might cause that ?  I can live without it but if I think it should be investigated.
[05:35] <bddebian> Welcome sabdfl
[05:36] <sabdfl> hey guys
[05:36] <bddebian> Hey, what if I'm a girl? ;-)
[05:37] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[05:38] <Lathiat> sabdfl: did you try that new kernel?
[05:38] <seb128> hi sabdfl
[05:38] <sabdfl> Lathiat: so far so good, yes
[05:38] <sabdfl> working for you?
[05:39] <sabdfl> hey seb128. feeling successfully older and wiser?
[05:39] <Lathiat> yeh good so far, see in a couple days i guess
[05:39] <seb128> sabdfl: kind of :)
[05:39] <hunger> fabbione: Your new kernel seems stable so far.
[05:39] <pitti> I just peeked in #u-meeting, will we have a meeting today?
[05:39] <seb128> Diziet: it's under the Accessories category?
[05:40] <hunger> fabbine: I'm keeping the HD busy, no problem yet.
[05:40] <fabbione> hunger: it's not my kernel. i only builded a snapshot of BenC work
[05:41] <hunger> fabbione: Feel free to s/your/whoever/. Fact is: It is way more stable for me than the "normal" breezy kernel.
[05:42] <hunger> fabbione: Whoever made it: He did good work. Thanks BenC.
[05:42] <Diziet> Oh, it used to be in System Tools.  It's not an Accessory.
[05:42] <seb128> Diziet: sabdfl requested to get it moved to Accesories (same for the file-browser icon)
[05:43] <Diziet> I see.
[05:43] <Diziet> I still think it's wrong, but there you go.
[05:44] <ivoks> terminal
[05:44] <ivoks> ?
[05:44] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:44] <Diziet> Yes, terminal.
[05:45] <ivoks> imho, it shouldn't be in system tools in first place... since it isn't system tool
[05:45] <ivoks> it's more accessorie
[05:45] <jsgotangco> just like how windows treats dos as an accessory?
[05:45] <ivoks> :)
[05:46] <ivoks> terminal and ms-dos prompt are one, and DOS is something other
[05:46] <Diziet> Isn't it ?  It seems like one to me.  While it's traditional of pointyclicky UIs to make the CLI hard to find, it's less usual of them to trivialise it.
[05:47] <ivoks> i don't care where it is... it's allways on my win+x :)
[05:48] <Diziet> I think of `accessory' as something like a calculator.  A small and pretty simple thing that even a naive user might easily use often.
[05:48] <ivoks> someone who knows UI better should decide aoubt that, and i'm sure sabdfl didn't go to access without consultation
[05:49] <Diziet> Anyone here got an amd64 install ?  Does the current firefox work at all ?
[05:49] <mvo> Diziet: you mean the ubuntu12 version?
[05:50] <Diziet> Yes.
[05:50] <mbreit> Diziet: works fine here
[05:50] <pitti> Diziet: works fine here
[05:50] <ivoks> so... amd64 builder is on strike? :)
[05:50] <pitti> mbreit: :-)
[05:50] <mvo> Diziet: seems to work ok here
[05:51] <Diziet> OK.  Hmm, thanks.
[05:51] <sabdfl> Diziet, ivoks, more controversial is the removal of Root Terminal. you guys have any opinion on that?
[05:52] <ivoks> never used that one..
[05:52] <pitti> gksudo in the menus and sudo in the shell works so well
[05:52] <jsgotangco> sudo works most of the time
[05:52] <pitti> and we should discourage permanent root terminals anyway
[05:52] <pitti> so, sabdfl++
[05:53] <ivoks> yeah... sabdfl++ :)
[05:53] <ogra> ++
[05:53] <Diziet> sabdfl: Um, what was the reason for it ?
[05:53] <Diziet> I assumed that it was something to do with not confusing the easily-confused.
[05:53] <Diziet> But if it's for `security reasons' then I think it's pretty bogus, really.
[05:54] <pitti> Diziet: no, not for security reasons; just to educate people to not type commands as root when not necessary
[05:55] <pitti> Diziet: if you have a root shell, then people could get used to "let's just take this terminal for everything"
[05:55] <Diziet> I see.  That sounds like `educating' people into `security'-consciousness.
[05:55] <pitti> Diziet: something along that line, yes
[05:55] <pitti> Diziet: do you disagree with that?
[05:55] <Diziet> I'm afraid so, yes.
[05:55] <pitti> Diziet: hm, so you think we should keep the root terminal?
[05:56] <pitti> what is the use case for that?
[05:57] <Diziet> (a) Saves typing if you know what you're doing (rather than terminal followed by sudo bash).  (b) Sysadmin unfamiliar with our system setup choices may not know that we prefer sudo and may (for example) try su etc.  `root terminal' in the menu advertises to them what they need nice and easily.
[05:58] <pitti> Diziet: well, our installer points out that there is no root, and sysadmins shuold generally know about the implications anyway
[05:58] <pitti> we should care more for inexperienced users IMHO
[05:58] <jsgotangco> pitti ++
[05:58] <ivoks> if they do custom install, they can create root password, iirc
[05:58] <ogra> and (a) is solved by sudo -s more easily
[05:58] <pitti> Diziet: but in the end, I don't mind either way
[05:59] <mpt> If there is a use case for it, perhaps add a menu item to do the proper incantation (sudo -i $SHELL, or whatever it is) to one of the menus in the terminal itself, rather than encouraging people to open a terminal and then think "oh crap, this isn't the one I wanted"
[05:59] <jsgotangco> the root account can be easily activated by experienced users
[05:59] <ivoks> maybe under system -> administration?
[05:59] <spacey> there is a root terminal in the menu...
[05:59] <spacey> right?
[05:59] <jsgotangco> spacey: deprecated
[06:00] <ogra> spacey, thats what we're talking about
[06:00] <spacey> oh ok:p i also use `sudo -s`
[06:00] <Diziet> mpt: One of the menus in the terminal itself ?  Who's going to look there ?
[06:00] <mpt> Someone pointed out on ubuntu-doc that people often get the incantation wrong, they don't know about the -s
[06:00] <Diziet> My (b) use case involved a sysadmin who doesn't know how we set things up.  Note that such a person might not have been the person who installed it.
[06:01] <Diziet> You've come and tried to fix other people's computers before now, right ?  It would be nice if the system made that relatively convenient.
[06:01] <pitti> right
[06:01] <pitti> but we shouldn't encourage it
[06:01] <Diziet> Shouldn't encourage what ?  Having a root terminal open ?
[06:01] <pitti> yes
[06:02] <ivoks> maybe pop-up with warning?
[06:02] <Diziet> I disagree.  There's nothing wrong with having a root terminal open.
[06:02] <pitti> programs with elevated privileges under X are a PITA in the first place
[06:02] <ogra> ivoks, eek
[06:02] <mpt> Diziet: Would patching su to print an explanation work better?
[06:02] <pitti> so we should minimize them
[06:02] <spacey> Diziet, if he doesn't know how to set up stuff.. should he be root? ;p
[06:02] <ivoks> ogra: :)
[06:02] <Diziet> mpt: That's a kludge, for us failing to provide the UI cue in the right place.
[06:02] <Diziet> Not that it wouldn't help.
[06:03] <pitti> Diziet: as soon as you have a program running as root under X, all other user processes have, too - bad for trojans and such
[06:03] <Diziet> spacey: Eh ?  You've never fixed someone else's computer running some strange distro you've not seen before ?
[06:03] <pitti> Diziet: in the end, I think we should fix su anyway, we planned to do this for a long time
[06:03] <pitti> Diziet: so, if su sees that root is disabled, it should point to sudo
[06:04] <pitti> (but that is orthogonal to the topic)
[06:04] <Diziet> pitti: If we're trying to defend against other programs in the session stuffing stuff into that window I think we're being overparanoid.  There are much worse things to worry about - the fact that the user is using a browser in the same account as sysadmin at all.
[06:04] <ivoks> don't forget, there is still problem with gksu, not reading sudoers like it should :/
[06:04] <ivoks> gksudo, not gksu
[06:04] <spacey> Diziet, sorry, all people i know are running ubuntu (or winxp). but sudo is not such a unknown command..
[06:04] <Diziet> spacey: Yes, but it would be nice just to make things smooth and easy.  That's what we're trying to do, right ?
[06:05] <pitti> Diziet: I see your point, it's a tradeoff
[06:05] <Diziet> What's the downside ?
[06:05] <pitti> between cautious education and easy maintenance
[06:05] <Diziet> Someone makes a virus that takes over the user's firefox and uses the running root terminal to help do something nasty ?
[06:05] <pitti> erm, educating cautiousness, I mean
[06:05] <mvo> ivoks: gksu can't read sudoers, at least not with the current design
[06:06] <Diziet> I think this `educating' people not to have a root terminal open is nonsense.
[06:06] <pitti> mvo: but mvo can determine whether root has a password
[06:06] <ivoks> mvo: ok, that's good to know...
[06:06] <spacey> Diziet, well this one person in thousand might as well read a few lines of documentation and know sudo. pretty convienant to use, but i understand your point ofcourse
[06:07] <hunger> Diziet: If you are afraid of that: Run firefox as a different user.
[06:07] <ivoks> mvo: since sudo someapp works ok, and gksudo someapp doesn't (if someapp is NOPASSWD in sudoers)
[06:07] <mvo> pitti: gksu can? how?
[06:07] <Diziet> hunger: Well, of course.  But that's too inconvenient for the average user (we have decided).
[06:07] <pitti> mvo: su can
[06:07] <seb128> Diziet: about the Accessories category upstream take it too for lusers tools, some GNOME guys condider it's for stuff who have a real life equivalent (dictionnary, calculator, notepad, ...)
[06:07] <pitti> mvo: not gksu, of course; but we are talking about people who enter "su" into terminals and fail
[06:07] <mvo> ivoks: yes, the problem is that gksudo just calls sudo, it has no other rights than the user 
[06:07] <hunger> Diziet: Using a root terminal is too, so do not worry too much about that.
[06:08] <mvo> ivoks: sudo is not very friendly when it comes to being embedded
[06:08] <ivoks> mvo: i see, thanks for clarification
[06:08] <mvo> pitti: yes, that's something we can fix
[06:08] <Diziet> seb: I think that most users - particularly people who aren't familiar with the system - will consider a CLI as a system tool because it's a thing that `system people' use to do `system things'.
[06:08] <mvo> ivoks: I haven't looked into the NOPASSWD issue, I was under the impression that recent version of gksudo have fixed that, but apparently they don't 
[06:08] <Diziet> ie things they don't understand.
[06:09] <Diziet> For the same reason experts look for expert tools like CLI in scary sounding places like `system tools'.
[06:09] <Diziet> `Accessories' should be full of harmless but useful trivia.
[06:09] <ivoks> mvo: if gksudo asks pass before it sends it to sudo, then problem is obvius, and i think that's the case...
[06:09] <seb128> Diziet: I quite agree with that
[06:10] <Diziet> Did we have some UI expert tell us otherwise, in fact ?
[06:10] <pitti> Diziet: I think keeping the root terminal in the system tools menu (and having the normal Terminal in accessories, like now) is a good compromise
[06:10] <Diziet> Splitting them up is a bad idea.
[06:10] <pitti> Diziet: you just suggested doing so
[06:11] <pitti> Diziet: keep system admin tools in one scary menu, and generally useful things in another
[06:11] <seb128> pitti, mvo, Mithrandir: you guys have an amd64 right? Sombody wants to take over http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14903 ? That's firefox crashing with the totem video plugin (seems to be reproducible when doing "previous page" from a video)
[06:11] <ivoks> mvo: yes... easy to demonstrate :)
[06:11] <ivoks> mvo: for app that's NOPASSWD, you can enter worng password in gksudo
[06:11] <ivoks> mvo: it would still open that app
[06:11] <Diziet> My argument above was about both root and non-root terminals.
[06:11] <Diziet> CLI = Command Line Interpreter.
[06:11] <pitti> Diziet: right, but a normal terminal is much more useful than a root terminal
[06:12] <pitti> Diziet: for example, users will need it to type things we ask them to (for debugging)
[06:12] <pitti> and many will eventually want to explore some CLI bits
[06:12] <Diziet> Yes.  And we're `system people' who ask them to do `system things' like debugging, for which they will need `system tools'.
[06:12] <pitti> I just want to scare them off a root terminal
[06:13] <mvo> ivoks: hm, I just tested it for the current gksudo in breezy and it seems to work as excepted (not asking for a passwd)
[06:13] <floo> hi guys :) i used usplash but usplash is not on my fullscreen (1024x768) its work @ fb16? can usplash  work in 1024? sorry for my english :)
[06:13] <pitti> mpt: what does our UI expert say to the terminal/root terminal story? :-)
[06:13] <jsgotangco> scary
[06:13] <mvo> floo: usplash will do only 640x480
[06:13] <floo> damn
[06:13] <ivoks> mvo: did you use any other app with gksudo before?
[06:13] <hunger> floo: I was told it can't.
[06:13] <pitti> floo: usplash is designed for one fixed resolution
[06:13] <floo> =/
[06:14] <floo> bootsplash didn't work because its not under udev :/
[06:14] <ivoks> mvo: try that on fresh login
[06:14] <mvo> ivoks: I don't think so, I did sudo -k before and tried it on a new vt as well
[06:14] <floo> +work
[06:14] <netstar> Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the ppc-64 kernel config file used for the kernel in the lastest preview breezy release?
[06:15] <sabdfl> Diziet: it's to simplify things. there is now one obvious way to get to a terminal. and the docs can focus on one way to escalate privileges: sudo
[06:15] <mvo> ivoks: tried that too, now difference
[06:15] <sabdfl> for clever people, it's not hard to setup their own panel icon that does exactly what they want
[06:15] <pitti> mdz: no meeting today?
[06:15] <ivoks> mvo: no or now? :)
[06:16] <Diziet> sabdfl: But there are numerous system tools in the `System' menu which also escalate privileges.
[06:16] <sabdfl> and "Accessories" is a good place, because a Terminal is not something to be scared of, or embarrassed about, it's just a tool
[06:16] <mvo> ivoks: no :) works as excepted, no password prompt and runs as root
[06:16] <sabdfl> like a calculator
[06:16] <mdz> pitti: this week is CC, no?
[06:16] <ivoks> mvo: ok, promise me to try that after restart, ok? :)
[06:16] <\sh> mdz: it was
[06:16] <sabdfl> mdz: i believe so
[06:16] <sabdfl> was?
[06:16] <\sh> 12UTC
[06:16] <mvo> mdz: it was today
[06:16] <\sh> today
[06:16] <seb128> sabdfl: GNOME guys tend to describe Accesories as stuff which have a real life equivalent: dictionnary, calculator, notepad, ...
[06:16] <ivoks> mvo: thing is that some PIDs are still in the air after you logout
[06:16] <jsgotangco> gyahhh
[06:16] <ogra> all over :)
[06:16] <jsgotangco> oh well
[06:17] <ivoks> mvo: and there is /tmp with your data
[06:17] <floo> usplash is on my laptop TFT very small :( its ugly... :(
[06:17] <ivoks> mvo: that happend to me to, after fresh login, it worked, but after restart - no
[06:17] <Diziet> sabdfl: I think that for most users a terminal is something they should have a healthy respect for.  And the whole point of the pointyclicky UI is to avoid them having to use it - based on the very premise that it's hard to use.
[06:17] <\sh> but my 2 1/2 hours sleep was good :)
[06:17] <Diziet> Now, it's true that there are things people need a terminal for but part of the point of the GUI is to minimise those.
[06:17] <floo> hi \sh :)
[06:17] <\sh> seb128: did u see this problem now with 2.6.12-8?
[06:17] <seb128> \sh: I don't get this away messages
[06:18] <Diziet> If you disagree with this then you don't need Gnome.
[06:18] <seb128> inotify: resource /var/lib/dpkg/status went away. Adding it to missing list
[06:18] <seb128> inotify: resource /etc/xdg/menus/debian-menu.menu went away. Adding it to missing list
[06:18] <seb128> is all what I get basically
[06:18] <seb128> and that's due to apt-get updates
[06:18] <\sh> seb128: strange...
[06:18] <seb128> ie: file moved/renamed
[06:18] <seb128> yeah
[06:18] <mvo> ivoks: I don't think so, the tickets are per-tty IIRC. but I'll check after my next reboot too
[06:18] <seb128> you are on x86?
[06:18] <\sh> seb128: yepp
[06:18] <Diziet> `System tools' is the nearest we have to an `expert' menu.
[06:19] <ivoks> mvo: thanks
[06:19] <\sh> floo: hi
[06:19] <mpt> pitti: I agree with sabdfl on this
[06:19] <Diziet> Also, `root terminal' ought to exist and has to be next to `terminal' and ought to be in `system tools', so `terminal' has to be there too.
[06:19] <Diziet> `Terminal' and `root terminal' should not be separated.
[06:19] <ivoks> mvo: (aren't per-tty since now it doesn't me for password from any tty)
[06:19] <sabdfl> Diziet: i disagree, i'm afraid
[06:20] <sabdfl> a GUI is wonderful, but so is a console
[06:20] <ivoks> mvo: 'ask' should somewhere in that line :)
[06:20] <ivoks> mvo: and 'be' in other :)))
[06:20] <sabdfl> rather than seeing it as a battle between them, we should understand that both will continue to evolve
[06:20] <sabdfl> i know a couple of Mac users who are now happy terminal users under mac OS X
[06:20] <sabdfl> Diziet: if you don't separate them it causes no end of confusion
[06:21] <sabdfl> we're going to stick with the current arrangement for Breezy, and review for +1
[06:21] <mvo> ivoks: care to join #gksu? I don't want to "spam" this channel too much
[06:21] <Diziet> sabdfl: I see.  Well, it's your decision but I still disagree.
[06:21] <\sh> seb128: I'm running the plain i386 kernel
[06:22] <sabdfl> Diziet: ok, please join in the followup discussion post-breezy
[06:22] <seb128> mpt: what do you think about launchpad entries on the right click menu of the panel?
[06:23] <sabdfl> seb128: which panel?
[06:23] <seb128> sabdfl: the GNOME one
[06:23] <seb128> the bar you have on the top and bottom of the screen
[06:23] <seb128> right click on a free space
[06:23] <sabdfl> ah
[06:24] <sabdfl> cool
[06:24] <mpt> seb128:sabdfl: I've already been asked this question :-) I agreed, because there's really no better place to put them
[06:24] <Diziet> sabdfl: Willdo.
[06:24] <sivang> seb128: true
[06:24] <sivang> seb128: I asked him :)
[06:24] <sivang> mpt: ;-)
[06:24] <seb128> mpt: k, I don't like to make menu longer
[06:24] <sabdfl> seb128: we need icons for those menu entries
[06:24] <seb128> sivang: right but you never communicate on what you do
[06:25] <seb128> sabdfl: do we have any artist for that? I'm not good at making icons :)
[06:25] <sivang> seb128: no I did :...-( I even talked with you about it on the sam eday
[06:25] <sabdfl> mpt: could you put seb128 onto the icons we use for translations and for tickets? i think we need ticket icons
[06:25] <seb128> sivang: you said you'll ask
[06:25] <sabdfl> let's use the ones we currently have in LP
[06:25] <sivang> seb128: and then I replied back that mpt was content with that change..
[06:25] <sivang> mpt: do you remember?
[06:25] <dieman> Kamion: btw, i put apache on mirror.cs.umn.edu now
[06:26] <dieman> Kamion: did some googling about thttpd/apache/etc
[06:26] <dieman> Kamion: looks like apache is a win due to persistent connections.
[06:26] <mpt> seb128: There is the problem that people might not understand the panel as being a distinct program by itself, though
[06:26] <dieman> didn't know thttpd can't do those :)
[06:26] <seb128> mpt: not a lot we can do about that
[06:27] <sivang> mpt: they will find this out when they click the context lp item, no?
[06:28] <sivang> sabdfl: is there going to be an open ticket function in each app as well?
[06:28] <mpt> sabdfl: I think gnome vastly overuses icons in menu items, but sure, I'll send them to seb128
[06:28] <sabdfl> sivang: not inside the app. the menu takes you to a "support overview", and from there you can open a ticket
[06:29] <sivang> sabdfl: I see, that will be under the "Get help" option right?
[06:29] <sabdfl> yup
[06:29] <sivang> cool
[06:30] <sivang> seb128: I even talked with you about gnome-applets that was deferred since you were too busy at that time..
[06:31] <seb128> sivang: I know that
[06:32] <seb128> sivang: but you tend to ping when you are done with your changes or the discussions instead of bringing discussions here when people concerned are here
[06:32] <seb128> sivang: no big deal, don't worry
[06:32] <pkern> (Bloody IRC client crashing away after sending a message)
[06:33] <mxpxpod> can someone with the most recent libevolution-cil try to start beagle? I'm getting a DllNotFound exception
[06:36] <sivang> seb128: ok, sorry for the troulbe, anyways. I will discuss this on u-d ml next time, it's probably better then IRC anyways..
[06:38] <seb128> sivang: don't worry, there is no trouble. But having everybody part of the discussion is better than having you pinging mpt and then pinging me, then I've to ping mpt or you to know what point you discussed, etc
[06:40] <mpt> seb128: Sorry for getting in the way
[06:41] <ivoks> bye
[06:42] <seb128> mpt: no, that's fine, thanks for give your advice on such questions
[06:55] <Reveng-ER> christel@freenode/staff/christel is a corrupt staff member. people on the staff social channel beg for modes and she is setting them just to read "christel we love you". do you all support such networks with corrupt staff members who set modes for personal pleasure?
[07:00] <\sh> Reveng-ER: wrong channel..has nothing to do with ubuntu
[07:05] <Mithrandir> elmo: readahead provides readahead-list?
[07:17] <\sh> elmo: please sync gtk-gnutella 0.95.4-1 from debian unstable (universe that is) thx :)
[07:19] <seb128> mpt, sivang: we have a complain about gnome-panel upstream because right click menu on the clock applet is too long with lpi items
[07:20] <Nafallo> mjg59: ping
[07:20] <mjg59> Hello
[07:20] <sivang> seb128: oh, why do upstream want it?
[07:20] <seb128> want what?
[07:20] <bddebian> Hello mjg59
[07:20] <Nafallo> mjg59: hi :-). can usplash handle interactive things like password-prompting?
[07:20] <sivang> seb128: sorry, you mean, GNOME upstream? they also use the patches?
[07:21] <mjg59> Nafallo: Not currently
[07:21] <mjg59> But it would be easy enough to implement
[07:21] <mjg59> If you need input, best thing to do is to explicitly kill usplash
[07:21] <seb128> no, gnome-panel upstream uses Ubuntu and right clicked on the clock
[07:21] <mjg59> (usplash_write "QUIT")
[07:22] <Nafallo> mjg59: I got a user running cryptsetup see, and I just uploaded a version that kills usplash if /sbin/usplash_write is executable :-).
[07:22] <sivang> seb128: ah, I saw , vuntz right?
[07:22] <seb128> correct
[07:22] <Nafallo> any way to start usplash after the script is done?
[07:22] <mjg59> Nafallo: It might be nice to check if it's running first and then restart it if so, but not too important
[07:23] <Nafallo> mjg59: naah. I'll just kill it for him then. the goal should be to enter the password inside usplash anyway :-)
[07:24] <Nafallo> mjg59: but not for breezy, I guess?
[07:30] <vuntz> hi
[07:30] <Kamion> dieman: mm, that's a matter of some debate - I don't think it's that cut-and-dried
[07:31] <sivang> mpt: seems that vuntz also thinks that patching the applets is ugly, what do you say? (for instance, clock applet)
[07:31] <vuntz> sivang: I think that dropping the patches for applets would be better, indeed
[07:31] <vuntz> sivang: but the users won't find any link to translate some applets, though
[07:31] <Kamion> dieman: it's true that a web server with keep-alive support will be able to give better performance on repeated requests, all other things being equal, by avoiding the extra connection setup and tear-down costs
[07:31] <sivang> vuntz: yes, that was guided me on my way to patch them...:-)
[07:32] <sivang> s/guided/guiding/
[07:32] <vuntz> brb
[07:32] <Kamion> dieman: but you have to offset that against thttpd being a select()-model web server which means that it will be able to cope with large numbers of concurrent connections considerably better than Apache
[07:33] <mjg59> Nafallo: Yeah
[07:34] <Kamion> dieman: there do exist keep-alive patches for thttpd; it's been a long time, but maybe I should get back into web server hacking and have a go at those
[07:35] <Kamion> Diziet: I'm told that the root terminal menu entry ran the terminal emulator as root as well as the shell; if we restore it, we should remember to fix that
[07:35] <Diziet> k: That's silly of it, indeed.  Note that it's still there, just disabled by default.  You can turn it on again with pointyclicky, I think.
[07:37] <Kamion> right, I haven't looked at the current state much yet ...
[07:39] <vuntz> sivang: maybe you could add lpi in the "add to panel" dialog?
[07:40] <sivang> vuntz: don't think it's a preoblem, but let us ask mpt first - he's the usabilty expert
[07:42] <sivang> mpt: actually not sure if it's suitable even there...where do you think it can be added? this is a list of aplets to add..
[07:42] <sivang> mpt: eithery way, let's wait for mpt.
[07:42] <sivang> errr
[07:42] <sivang> vuntz: those were for you ^^^
[07:42] <magnon> yet another ubuntu success story
[07:42] <magnon> or "how to exchange a faulty router within 3.5 minutes"
[07:46] <mpt> sivang: What I suggested in the mockup was that there be general items that took you to the pages for Ubuntu-as-a-whole
[07:47] <mpt> That, combined with a search function in Rosetta, would let you find badly-translated strings and correct them
[07:47] <mpt> or get help with Ubuntu in general
[07:48] <sivang> mpt: ok, so you would you second vuntz suggestion?
[07:49] <dieman> Kamion: heh, the machine is holding up fine with apapche
[07:49] <dieman> apache
[07:49] <dieman> i think i would only care if i had gigE on that box
[07:49] <mpt> sivang: Add it where? Buttons for such unimportant functions would be crack
[07:49] <sivang> mpt: In order to easily transalte the applets, and also not clutter the context menus we can drop individual applets supprt, leave it for the menu, and mention this somehwere in the docs possibly
[07:50] <mpt> and the dialog doesn't have menus
[07:51] <vuntz> what about using the items in the panel context menu for the applets and the panel?
[07:51] <vuntz> I'm not sure users will think that applets are not the same app as the panel
[07:52] <Nafallo> mpt: yay for search-function! :-)
[07:54] <Kamion> dieman: I used to be able to effectively disable Apache servers from an untrusted client with a trivial shell script and trivial bandwidth, even after they said they'd fixed that :-(
[07:54] <Kamion> (and not an exploit or anything, just connecting to them lots)
[07:55] <Kamion> but it's been a few years
[08:01] <sivang> mpt, vuntz : maybe we can start a thread about it , I need to run, but will be back in about 2 hours (train to catch)
[08:01] <sivang> mpt: or just let me know what you think is best, and I will make sure it's reflected in the pacakges
[08:02] <seb128> you guys can use bugzilla for that too
[08:02] <mpt> sivang: I'd rather just have a single item for the whole panel
[08:02] <mpt> vuntz is right, expecting people to distinguish between different parts of the panel is unreasonable
[08:02] <mpt> Some people have trouble even distinguishing between hardware and software...
[08:04] <sivang> mpt: no problem. so be it :)
[08:04] <sivang> mpt: so only the panel get's lpi love, and applet's context menu is free fo them , yes?
[08:04] <mpt> correct
[08:05] <sivang> mpt: cool hen, seb128: I will make a new pakcage and ping you for review/upload?
[08:05] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=system-help-menu.jpg was my original suggestion
[08:06] <seb128> sivang: that works, thanks
[08:07] <sivang> seb128: cool =) next time I don't move a mussle without writing to #u-d ;-)
[08:10] <doko> seb128: are defaults for printer drivers handled by gnome-cups-manager?
[08:13] <xxenon> I got no accents in breezy with a fr_CH keyboard...(driver kbd). Worked in hoary (driver keyboard)
[08:15] <mdz> Mithrandir,ogra,Riddell: please merge edubuntu and kubuntu seeds with ubuntu and upload new metapackages, to complete the readahead transition
[08:17] <fabbione> elmo: tetex panic seems to be finished...
[08:17] <fabbione> elmo: apparently we need to do nothing.
[08:23] <eruin> 7join #ubuntu-art
[08:24] <bddebian> whoops :-)
[08:25] <lamont> hrm... montreal is YUL, yes?
[08:25] <eruin> ;)
[08:27] <mdz> fabbione: gfs certainly spews a lot of warnings on amd64
[08:27] <Diziet> mdz: Shall I upload that dpkg with the conffiles fix tomorrow ?
[08:27] <fabbione> mdz: what kind of warnings?
[08:27] <fabbione> mdz: what config?
[08:27] <mdz> fabbione: fs/gfs_locking/lock_dlm/thread.c:133: warning: long unsigned int format, uint64_t arg (arg 3)
[08:28] <mdz> default ubuntu config
[08:28] <fabbione> at build time..
[08:28] <fabbione> yeah i told upstream..
[08:28] <mdz> Diziet: send me a debdiff, and if you don't hear from me by tomorrow, go ahead
[08:28] <fabbione> they say not to worry
[08:28] <Diziet> mdz: Willdo.
[08:29] <Diziet> You won't want to read the actual code though; it's a 610-line diff.
[08:30] <Diziet> (Debian #108587, for reference.)
[08:32] <sabdfl> elmo: what's a zombie process?
[08:33] <mdz> sabdfl: a process which has exited, but whose parent hasn't acknowledged it (yet)
[08:33] <ogra> sabdfl, a leftover from a dead process in the processlist afaik
[08:33] <mdz> tseng: mono-assemblies-base wants to move to universe, ack?
[08:33] <pitti> Hi again
[08:33] <sabdfl> mdz: ok, so i can not stress about that? noticed it on the stress test box
[08:33] <bddebian> Heya pitti
[08:33] <bddebian> Anyone know what xcontrib is/was?
[08:34] <mdz> sabdfl: if they're accumulating or something, that can indicate a bug, but seeing them from time to time is nothing to be concerned about
[08:34] <sabdfl> ok. there's just one, i'll give it a little time to get noticed
[08:38] <Diziet> mdz: YHM
[08:38] <mdz> Diziet: I check regularly throughout the day, thanks
[08:39] <Diziet> Noted.
[08:41] <tseng> mdz: afaik we arent building that anymore
[08:41] <tseng> mdz: eh, its a transition package.
[08:41] <mdz> tseng: did that just happen recently, past few days?
[08:41] <tseng> mdz: more like a month or two
[08:41] <tseng> mdz: its a dummy package.
[08:41] <mdz> tseng: is it there for upgrades from Hoary?
[08:41] <tseng> yes.
[08:42] <mdz> ok, I'll seed it for you then
[08:42] <tseng> thank you.
[08:42] <lamont> scrollkeeper-update -p /var/lib/scrollkeeper -o /build/buildd/gucharmap-1.4.4/debian/tmp//usr/share/omf/gucharmap
[08:43] <lamont>  /var/lib/scrollkeeper/scrollkeeper_docs: Permission denied
[08:43] <lamont> is that a scrollkeeper bug, or a buildd-config bug?
[08:43] <Diziet> Goodnight people.
[08:43] <mdz> Diziet: night
[08:44] <pitti> night Diziet 
[08:44] <ogra> night Diziet 
[08:44] <ogra> Diziet, and thanks for fixing 2679
[08:44] <ogra> :)
[08:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: refreshing the deps means it removes a load of stuff from -sparc and -hppa.
[08:47] <ogra> Mithrandir, did you have a timeout during the ./update run ? 
[08:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: usually that means it failed to download the Packages files from ports
[08:47] <lamont> Mithrandir: mdz: doing another refresh in a few days should add them back without significantly impacting the first-class arch...
[08:47] <mdz> no idea why it happens; it's intermittent
[08:47] <ogra> Mithrandir, it happens quite often with ports
[08:47] <Mithrandir> ah, ok.
[08:47] <lamont> doh.  yeah.  what mdz said
[08:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: dumping the source tree and running it again often fixes it
[08:48] <Mithrandir> shouldn't it fail, rather?
[08:48] <mdz> yes
[08:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: which seeds were affected?
[08:48] <mdz> if it's minimal, that's debootstrap's bug
[08:48] <Mithrandir> yes, it's minimal
[08:48] <mdz> if not, possibly my bug
[08:48] <mdz> yeah
[08:48] <mdz> debootstrap doesn't fail properly
[08:49] <mdz> it didn't need to download the Packages file for --print-debs before, so this wasn't a problem
[08:49] <mdz> but it ought to be fixed now
[08:49] <Mithrandir> looks better now, so I'll upload this.
[08:50] <Mithrandir> ok, done
[08:51] <ogra> MS tried to employ esr o_O 
[08:51] <bddebian> Heh, that would be funny
[08:51] <ogra> http://esr.ibiblio.org/index.php?p=208
[08:51] <ogra> thats no joke
[08:53] <\sh> lolo
[08:54] <\sh> this is a good one ;)
[08:54] <ogra> yup :)
[08:54] <\sh> actually they were successful with drobbins ;)
[08:54] <Lathiat> hahaha
[08:55] <\sh> Lathiat: actually...they're not paying bad ;)
[08:56] <\sh> hmmm
[08:56] <\sh> I'm waering a MS shirt right now...shame
[08:56] <\sh> s/ae/ea/
[08:56] <mvo> \sh: they do (at least that's what I heard), but they issue stock to compensate that
[08:57] <\sh> mvo: lets say, daniel can take care about his wife and his children without a look on the cent ;)
[08:58] <mvo> \sh: hm, ok :)
[08:58] <bddebian> ogra: Yeah but ESR is as much of a nutjob as Gates ;-P
[08:58] <mdz> fabbione: is there some clarity on the tetex issues?
[08:58] <\sh> mvo: but trying to hire eric is really a joke ;)
[08:59] <mvo> \sh: yes, in every respect ;)
[08:59] <fabbione> mdz: yes, it's coming along
[09:01] <fabbione> mdz: it looks like it will explode in a big bubble of soap
[09:03] <\sh> hmmm...
[09:03] <pitti> Hi otavio 
[09:03] <\sh> where do i find now xfonts-cjk?
[09:04] <\sh> xfonts-intl-japanese ?
[09:05] <bddebian> \sh: Doesn't show on packages.u.c
[09:05] <fabbione> mdz: sorry.. did you write anything else about GFS more than the warning.. i did answer and lost my box all of a sudden..
[09:05] <mvo> seb128: about #13249, how does this notification look like? 
[09:05] <\sh> bddebian: xfonts-xjk is not there anymore...so it should be xfonts-intl-japanese
[09:06] <bddebian> xjk or cjk, you're confusing me.. :-)
[09:07] <\sh> cjk
[09:07] <\sh> sry
[09:08] <bddebian> ;-)
[09:11] <mdz> fabbione: no, I was just noticing it during a build
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: ok.
[09:12] <fabbione> BenC: when is the next kernel upload planned?
[09:13] <ogra> mdz, about dhcp3-server, i guess its ok if i set the two default postinst warnings from high to medium ? 
[09:19] <teprrr> hmm, looks like gl works fine but not in q2.. anyone does know anything about this? _glapi_Dispatch fails when it tries to load r200_dri.. xorg problem/proble in quake2's code?
[09:21] <seb128> mvo: pong
[09:21] <seb128> mvo: what notificiation?
[09:21] <seb128> mvo: the startup notification? it's the clock cursor
[09:29] <mvo> seb128: thanks, trying to reproduce it now. I assuem I have to start it from the panel?
[09:29] <ivoks> are translations on rosetta being forwared to upstream?
[09:29] <seb128> mvo: yep
[09:29] <mvo> seb128: hm, sorry. worksfortm
[09:29] <seb128> mvo: I've tried with the gdmsetup entry
[09:29] <seb128> first time it asks for the gksudo password
[09:30] <seb128> second time the windows list applet has "starting..." for 15s
[09:30] <seb128> and the apps has the busy pointer
[09:30] <mvo> seb128: funny, it is reproducable with the gdmsetup, but not with synaptic :)
[09:30] <seb128> weird
[09:30] <seb128> the bug was on g-s-t
[09:30] <seb128> and a friend pinged me about this with gdmsetup
[09:30] <seb128> and it happens only with gksudo
[09:31] <mvo> seb128: I can reproduce it on both g-s-t and gdm, but why not for synaptic. odd
[09:31] <seb128> so I thought it was for all the apps using it
[09:31] <mvo> seb128: do you think #15252 justifies a new upload?
[09:31] <seb128> maybe that's because synaptic rocks :)
[09:32] <seb128> mvo: I would say use it to collect translations and do an upload some days before 5.10
[09:32] <mvo> seb128: ok
[09:32] <seb128> mvo: but it should be listed by rosetta
[09:32] <mvo> seb128: all "my" apps (u-m,g-a-i,synaptic) work, I'll ignore the bug and pretend it's other peoples problem :P
[09:33] <seb128> ah ah
[09:33] <mvo> seb128: yes, some apps are not listed, I need to ping carlos about it
[09:34] <seb128> mvo: 
[09:34] <seb128> $ grep Notif synaptic.desktop
[09:34] <seb128> $
[09:34] <seb128> $ grep Notif gdmsetup.desktop
[09:34] <seb128> StartupNotify=true
[09:34] <seb128> 
[09:34] <seb128> maybe that's why?
[09:34] <mvo> *cough*
[09:34] <seb128> :)
[09:34] <mvo> yes, of course
[09:36] <mvo> Diziet: do you plan another firefox upload soon? I got a i18n update for it
[09:43] <lamont> hrm... should I get asked what dictionary I want on a hoary-> breezy upgrade?
[09:45] <lamont> Name: dictionaries-common/default-wordlist
[09:47] <seb128> lamont: that is known (been mentionned by several people on the list)
[09:47] <fabbione> good night guys
[09:47] <lamont> seb128: cool
[09:52] <ogra> seb128, how should i understand comment 2 in 15239 ?
[09:52] <ogra> whic settings do you mean ? 
[09:54] <seb128> ogra: bugzilla settings (priority, ...)
[09:54] <seb128> ogra: a stopper for edubuntu or kubuntu is not one for Ubuntu
[09:54] <ogra> err, yes, we talked about it already, sorry... i'm just digging through my important bugs list :)
[09:55] <seb128> ogra: \sh did some good work on it, seems to be an inotify bug, so not a gamin/GNOME one
[09:55] <ogra> seb128, bu it think its critical for ubuntu as well, i see it on ubuntu and edubuntu
[09:55] <ogra> seb128, yes, i noticed that... i already ordered 2 goldstarts at JaneW or you both ;)
[09:56] <seb128> ogra: that means we have to delay 5.10 if it's not fixed ... we probably don't
[09:56] <seb128> we have only 2 bugs
[09:56] <seb128> from your and \sh
[09:56] <ogra> seb128, it happens with every KDE app in the gnome menu
[09:56] <seb128> that's not that an issue for users
[09:56] <mdz> mvo: do we need to make a corresponding change to the kernel for the notification fix, or has that already been done?
[09:56] <seb128> ogra: Ubuntu don't ship with KDE apps
[09:56] <seb128> not "out of the box"
[09:56] <seb128> and it doesn't happen for me
[09:57] <\sh> ogra & seb128: one moment :)
[09:57] <seb128> so not for everybody
[09:57] <ogra> seb128, and i have had lots of reports on IRC
[09:57] <mvo> mdz: a single line needs to be added to the hook notitifcaton file of the kernel
[09:57] <\sh> it happens to any menu items which are subdirs of /usr/share/applications/
[09:57] <mvo> mdz: BenC knows about it
[09:57] <ogra> seb128, i get this report for nearly all new installs of edubuntu... 
[09:58] <seb128> sure, that's a stopper for edubuntu since you guys ship KDE stuff by default
[09:58] <ogra> seb128, and since we suport KDE apps, they should also work in GNOME, even if we dont ship them
[09:58] <seb128> would be nice
[09:58] <seb128> but I don't get the issue as said
[09:58] <seb128> so you will have to debug it
[09:59] <ogra> yup, its on my list...
[09:59] <mvo> mdz: if you have a moment, it would be nice if you could have a look at #13713 
[09:59] <\sh> seb128: what can trigger this behaviour? an client or inotify itself cause it's stoopid? ;)
[09:59] <\sh> s/an/a/
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: oh, I thought you had uploaded that already
[10:00] <seb128> \sh: dunno, I've the new linux for like 8 hours and no such issue
[10:00] <seb128> and no "moved away" log message
[10:00] <\sh> seb128: plain i386? 
[10:00] <seb128> k7 linux version
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: oh, this is a revision to the earlier patch
[10:00] <seb128> but i386 install
[10:01] <mvo> mdz: the media-change fix yes, if we want to have a simpler workaround we need some more support in apt because it does not support not-available cdroms
[10:01] <\sh> hmm...
[10:01] <doko> lamont, infinity: are the OOo2 b-d installation problems on the buildds buildd problems, or can I blame seb128 due to some new gnome stuff?
[10:01] <mvo> mdz: it's a new patch, it's needed if we want to just fail if a media-change would be needed
[10:01] <lamont> doko: blame seb128...  that'll give us time to figure out if you should or not.. :-)
[10:01] <\sh> seb128: and as add: with "pan" i don't have this issue
[10:01] <seb128> doko: there is no new GNOME stuff for a week and I've been tracking the builds
[10:02] <seb128> so blame lamont :)
[10:02] <mdz> mvo: looks ok
[10:02] <mdz> mvo: I think there is a debian bug open about this as well
[10:02] <\sh> seb128: and pan.desktop is in /usr/share/gnome/apps/Internet
[10:02] <torkel> doko: thanks for fixing gcc-3.4/libstdc++. We are now one big step closer to be able to deploy ubuntu on all our clusters
[10:02] <seb128> \sh: weird, I got a bug from a guy who has the issue with pan
[10:02] <mvo> mdz: yes, I put it in the changelog already :)
[10:02] <mvo> mdz: thanks!
[10:03] <\sh> hmm...I reinstall 0.1.5
[10:04] <\sh> grmpf...how can I downgrade *lol*
[10:04] <seb128> \sh: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14967 speaks about pan
[10:04] <seb128> "I have installed the pan news reader. Sometimes (it seems rather random at first
[10:04] <seb128> sight), pan does not appear in Gnome's application menu, sometimes it does"
[10:05] <\sh> seb128: I read the bugreport...but I installed pan after I updated to 0.1.6...so I have to downgrade now...and I don't want to screw my whole installation..
[10:06] <Nafallo> \sh: don't you have a canonical laptop to screw? ;-)
[10:06] <\sh> and when I want to remove libgamin0 and gamin now...it will remove my whole system
[10:06] <seb128> \sh: how screw?
[10:06] <seb128> \sh: apt-get install package=version
[10:07] <\sh> seb128: thx ;)
[10:07] <seb128> np
[10:07] <lamont> Setting up libgphoto2-2 (2.1.6-1ubuntu3) ...
[10:07] <lamont>  /var/lib/dpkg/info/libgphoto2-2.postinst: line 23: /etc/hotplug/usb/libgphoto2.usermap: No such file or directory
[10:07] <lamont> dpkg: error processing libgphoto2-2 (--configure):
[10:07] <lamont>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[10:07] <lamont> seb128: ^^^
[10:07] <seb128> lamont: blame pitti I guess
[10:07] <\sh> Nafallo: this is not what I want to do...u don't know how hard it is to have ubuntu on it again ;)
[10:07] <seb128> lamont: he did the upload
[10:08] <lamont> heh
[10:08] <Nafallo> \sh: I don't know that indeed :-P
[10:08] <seb128> pitti: booooog
[10:08] <lamont> we'll let doko blame pitti - same TZ and all that.
[10:08] <seb128> both .de
[10:08] <pitti> lamont: don't worry, I'm listening
[10:08] <lamont> heh
[10:08] <lamont> fix that.  kthxbye
[10:08] <seb128> :)
[10:08] <doko> ok, I'll wait with the phone call, until he's asleep 
[10:08] <Nafallo> lol
[10:09] <seb128> pitti: doko wants to hurt you
[10:09] <bddebian> Yikes
[10:09] <pitti> doko: I use to switch off my mobile at night anyway :-)
[10:09] <pitti> doko: but you can cry really loud in an email 
[10:09] <doko> did I? ;-)
[10:09] <pitti> doko: no, but maybe you will :-)
[10:10] <doko> there's a bug report about wav files embedded in .doc files. maybe I'll investigate ;)
[10:10] <pitti> :0B\n* .*kthxbye\n/dev/null
[10:14] <\sh> grmpf...
[10:14] <\sh> patching fixing patching fixing pointer to (unsigned int) casts *gnarf*
[10:18] <mdz> mjg59: shall we disable the hdparm -B business (regarding #6108)?
[10:24] <netstar> what;s the equivalent to /etc/rc.d/rc.local/
[10:26] <pitti> lamont, seb128: fixed libgphoto uploaded
[10:26] <seb128> pitti: rock
[10:27] <pitti> lamont: I was told that f-spot needs a g-b with the new libgphoto
[10:27] <lllmanulll> seb128, Hey :)
[10:27] <seb128> g-b?
[10:27] <seb128> lu lllmanulll
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: give-back
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: that what you always call "kick"
[10:36] <elmo> ogra: what's the status of kdeedu?
[10:36] <elmo> ogra: the kiten stuff is still showing up as wanting to be imported
[10:36] <ogra> huh ?
[10:37] <ogra> Binary only demotions to universe 
[10:37] <ogra> o kdeedu kiten libkiten-dev libkiten1                                {kdeedu}
[10:37] <ogra> elmo, whas wrong ?
[10:37] <elmo> ok - so you're happy for those to go?
[10:37] <ogra> yup
[10:38] <ogra> i only need parts of kdeedu, not the metapackage...
[10:43] <Nafallo> elmo: could you sync sbackup from unstable and new it?
[10:48] <doko> elmo: is poppler-utils stuck in new? the buildds tell, it's built
[10:48] <doko> pitti: anything found for idle?
[10:51] <netstar> where can I get mkinitrd from?
[11:01] <lamont> drivers/usb/input/hid-input.c: event field not found
[11:01] <lamont> I
[11:01] <lamont> 'm guessing that has something to do with the keyboard not working...
[11:07] <netstar> why mkinitramfs over mkinitrd?
[11:08] <thierry> I just aded a patch to ubuntu bug 14744. Simple and should apply on breezy so anyone to apply it?
[11:08] <netstar> do all ubuntu kernels require an initrd?
[11:35] <doko> lamont, infinity: please requeue OOo2, libgphoto-2 is built and in the archive
[11:36] <dieman> OOo2 uses libgphoto-2? yikes.
[11:39] <doko> no, just the bloody gnome dependency chain
[11:39] <ogra> mdz, ping
[11:41] <mdz> ogra: pong
[11:42] <ogra> mdz, i'd like to set all debconf questions in dhcp3-server to mediaum, would that be ok ? if we generate the /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf according to the ip that should work out of the box
[11:43] <mdz> ogra: yes
[11:43] <mdz> ogra: don't forget to make it not a conffile
[11:43] <ogra> fine, thanks... didnt want to make this change without approval
[11:43] <ogra> mdz, you mean the dhcp.conf ? 
[11:45] <slomo> elmo: ping?
[11:51] <netstar> hi
[11:51] <netstar> Where can I obtain a copy of the kernel configuration file used to make the ppc64 kernel in breezy?
[11:52] <pitti> netstar: in the installed system: /boot/config.*
[11:56] <netstar> yu
[11:56] <netstar> ty
[11:56] <netstar> initrd is always necessary for ubuntu?
[11:56] <netstar> oh well, here goes nothing...again
[11:57] <Surak> Hello
[11:58] <Surak> Is there a reason for the cd drives having dma disabled with breezy live?
[11:58] <Lathiat> dma on cds breaks on alot of hardware
[11:59] <Surak> Lathiat: does this still happens? 
[11:59] <Lathiat> yes
[11:59] <lamont> doko: oo.o2 given-back
[12:00] <Surak> Lathiat: it used to happen on older hardware - in fact, so old that gnome 2.x would be unusable with that :-) I'm curious about what kind of newer hardware still suffers from dma problems.
[12:01] <tseng> doko: mdz btw i have been using rrdtool 1.2.x for awhile now in production
[12:01] <Surak> I mean, older drives, which usually are at older computers. Does knoppix uses dma, isn't it?