/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/09/18/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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womblemako: Did you get a chance to review my wiki page for completeness?01:58
makowomble: no, i haven't had an opportunity02:00
womblemako: 'k.  thanks.02:00
wombleI'll live until the next meeting, and work up a bit more credit.  <grin>02:01
makoKamion: do you know where elmo or or sabdfl is?02:02
Kamionelmo got to bed pretty late last night judging from /whois; I'll SMS him in a moment02:04
Kamionno idea about sabdfl02:04
makoKamion: /me can go find his phone and sms mark02:06
KamionI've got my phone here, I'll do it now02:06
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Kamionmako: SMSed mark02:07
Kamionhi elmo02:07
makoKamion: sounds good02:07
elmomark won't be able to make it02:07
makoelmo: hola02:07
Kamionah, ok02:07
elmoADSL is down for all of South Ken02:08
elmoso both home and office are broken for him02:08
makoquite annoying02:08
makowell lets move on then.. hopefully BT or whoever is at fault will fix it :)02:08
smurfixhe could use his phone ;-)02:08
makogreetings everyone02:08
makonow would be a good time to state your name for the log02:09
=== mako is Benjamin Mako Hill
=== smurfix is Matthias Urlichs
=== Yann2 is Yann Hamon
=== kobold is Fabio Tranchitella
=== titus` is David Larlet
=== ogra is Oliver Grawert
=== Kamion is Colin Watson
=== segfault is Carlos Santiviago
=== Ju is Julien Rottenberg
makowell, this looks like it will be a short meeting02:10
Kamion(yay)02:10
makoif you are on the agenda as a new member candidate, please go ahead and prepare (in advance) a short summary of the things you've done for ubuntu so far02:10
=== \sh is StephanHermann
makoand the things you plan to do in the future or the places you want to do take ubuntu02:11
Yann2(if theree's some time left at the end of the agenda, some questions of the locoteams of yesterday are still without answer)02:11
makoyour record and your vision02:11
makoYann2: yes, that should be fine02:11
makoin any case.. 02:11
makosmurfix: no new loco teams this meeting?02:11
makonone of the agenda02:11
smurfixI was on holiday the last two weeks02:11
ographew, the proposed members list is looong02:12
smurfixI'll get them rallied for next time02:12
makosmurfix: sounds good :)02:12
makoa little bit of late (norther hemisphere) summer lull is appreciated :)02:12
makoin terms of new members02:12
mako3 people were deferred last time02:13
makoi didn't see any of their names in the intro02:13
ogramako, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/02:13
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ogramako, thats the new list afaik02:13
makoogra: i think people still need to add themselves to the agenda02:14
elmoogra: that doesn't supersede the agenda02:14
ograhmm, ok, i understood it different...02:14
makoogra: you declare your intention on that page and then add yourself to the agenda when you can attend02:14
makoogra: very few people on that list are here02:15
ograok02:15
smurfixNB, somebody should go through the proposed people there and enable those that already *are* members (like myself ;-)02:15
sivanghi all02:15
smurfixs/enable/approve02:15
sivanghey mako 02:15
=== mako coughs
makosmurfix: yes, ok :)02:15
makosivang: hey there02:15
makook02:15
elmoactually, seriously02:15
makois DankoAlexeyev RobertStoffers or JonathanJesse here?02:15
elmoif someone wants to volunteer to go through the list of proposed people and work out who should be approved, based on previous CC meetings, that'd be great02:16
elmoany takers?02:16
sivangmako: is there any way around lp\s signing CoC for getting approved as a member in lp? (and being able to use the u.c mail alias)02:16
elmosivang: no02:17
elmosivang: if signing the CoC in LP isn't working for you, ping the LP team about getting it fixed02:17
elmosivang: if that doesn't work, talk to me or sabdfl02:17
makoi have at least two different launchpad accounts and can never remember which one does what02:18
makoneither seem to be able to change this02:18
makogrr02:18
elmomako: change which?02:18
makoapproving members02:19
makoanyway02:19
makolets move on02:19
makoit's not worth wrestling with lp in the meeting02:19
makoalright02:19
=== smurfix vanishes for 10min or so
makodanko, robert, or jonathan?02:19
makono02:19
sivangelmo: we'll do, thanks02:19
makokobold: you're up02:20
makokobold should be Fabio Tranchitella02:20
Kamiondoko: can you say a few words about kobold as your SoC student?02:20
koboldmako: yes.02:20
makokobold: tell us what you've done with ubuntu so far and what your vision of the future is02:21
dokoKamion: unfortunately I can't tell anything bad ;-)02:21
makodoko: damn :)02:21
koboldI've worked on Ubuntu zope packages for the Google Summer of Code project, and my mentor is doko.02:21
koboldOur goal was the integration between debian and ubuntu about zope packaging ..02:21
dokohe did prepare the zope* packages, updated zope products, and extended dzhandle (zope-common) to the specs that we did extend on debconf02:21
Kamiondoko: well, that's a good start :)02:22
koboldwith the support of a common team.02:22
koboldI packaged zope2.8, plone2.1 and CPS, other than some minor changes within zope-common and zope-debhelper.02:22
elmoFWIW, I haven't really examined the packages closely, but I've seen there's a non-trivial amount of it, and I'm glad to see the divergence between ubuntu and debian zope packaging being fixed02:23
koboldelmo: I think we should try to join the effort, and the SoC project has been a great opportunity to do so.02:23
dokoelmo: yes, that was the goal, having a common packaging base02:23
koboldI'm the maintainer of plone and related packages in Debian, too, and having a common base-set for both distros is a great thing.02:24
makokobold: so, are you going to be continuing this work in ubuntu not that your SoC work is done?02:24
makoi agree that the work on common packages is a fantastic step02:24
koboldmako: sure, this is my main interest.02:24
makogreat02:25
makokobold: well, thank you so much for your contributions02:25
makoare you looking to try your hand in other areas in ubuntu as well or have you not thought that far forward yet? :)02:25
koboldMy main goal would be to establish and support a common team between Debian, Ubuntu and other deb-based distros, maybe not only about Zope packaging.02:25
koboldmako: not, I haven't thought that yet.02:25
makokobold: wonderful. we need as many people like you as we can get02:25
koboldI've still some minor things to do about zope/plone.. ;)02:26
makokobold: also, you didn't mention where you where you are from :)02:26
koboldI live half time in Italy (Turin), half time in the south of Hungary (Pcs)02:26
makoare you involved in loco teams yet in either place?02:27
koboldMy hungarian is far from being perfect... and about italian, I'm not involved (yet).02:27
makokobold: alright then02:28
=== mako is happy with approving kobold for membership
makoKamion, elmo ?02:28
koboldmako: thanks a lot.02:28
Kamionyes, definitely02:28
elmoack02:28
koboldKamion, elmo: thanks.02:28
makokobold: welcome! :)02:28
ajmitchkobold: great to have you as a member :)02:28
makoas soon as i figure out how to get lp working again, i'll approve you :)02:29
dokokobold: congrats :)02:29
ograwelcome kobold 02:29
\shwelcome kobold :) nice to have u onboard02:29
kobold\sh, doko, ogra, ajmitch: thanks!02:29
makois there anybody else here for membership that was not on the agenda?02:29
makoalright then, moving on02:29
makosegfault: you have the next agenda item02:29
=== ajmitch pinged rob, no response
segfaultok02:30
Kamionmako: I'll do it now seeing as I figured out how to earlier02:30
makoKamion: thanks :)02:30
makoKamion: you should approve smurfix while you are in there :)02:30
segfaultwell, first i'd like to apologize for not being able to show in the last meeting.02:30
makosegfault: it's fine. that's why we have meetings at different times.. not everyone can make all of them02:30
Kamionmako: already did earlier02:31
Kamion(done)02:31
makoKamion: thanks02:31
segfaultas i can see, what i asked ia already being done, lists for translations discussion, like ubuntu-l10n-es02:31
segfaulti created one in listas.prognus.com.br, but however i think its better to have all lists in one place, lists.ubuntu.com02:31
=== mako nods to segfault
segfaulthehe02:32
makosegfault: so basically you asked for language specific l10n lists, someone was uncomfortable with this asking you to use transloator and loco lists, and then somebody got convinced and the lists started being created?02:32
segfaultyeah, i guess so02:32
makosegfault: if that's the case, it sounds like your problem has been solved :)02:32
makosegfault: anything else on the topic that needs to be discussed?02:33
segfaultyes, now who is in charge of lists administration?02:33
makosegfault: jdub02:33
makosegfault: i'm an admin for many lists02:33
makomeaning i can approve messages and such02:33
makobut i can't create new lists02:33
segfaultand how about making one list not "private"?02:34
segfaultwe have a list called ubuntu-br, but it doesn't show in the main page02:34
makosegfault: go to the lists info page and find the email address of the admin in the footer02:34
makosegfault: and then email that person02:34
segfaultok02:34
makothe non-english lists will not be maintained by jdub or me but rather by some speaker of the language02:35
segfaultand one last question, how i can get an ubuntu.com email? :)02:35
makoelmo?02:35
ograsegfault, you get it if you are member02:35
ograsegfault, automatically assigned to your launchpad account02:35
segfaulthumm02:36
makoogra: does that actually work now?02:36
ogramako, apparently02:36
makowow :)02:36
segfaulti am acctually a member, but didn't know that02:36
segfaultwill test, then02:36
makosegfault: well, don't feel too bad. i didn't know it either :)02:36
ogramako, at least  handfull of MOTUs told me it works02:36
makoi mean, i knew it was supposed to work02:36
ajmitchmako: we heard at last week's TB meeting02:36
makoi didn't know it *actually* worked :)02:36
makoajmitch: well that's excellent02:36
ajmitchmako: don't sound so surprised at stuff working ;)02:36
makoajmitch: i've been here longer than you ;)02:37
ajmitchyeah :)02:37
makoanyway, is Christian Bjlevik around?02:37
makosegfault: well, thanks for showing up :)02:37
segfaultrcpt to:<segfault@ubuntu.com>02:38
makosegfault: i'm glad to hear the list issue is already tackled02:38
\shmako: it's nafallo...02:38
segfault250 Ok: queued as C1075B6846D02:38
segfaultwell, looks like its working02:38
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makosegfault: killer02:38
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makoNafallo: he appears :)02:38
ajmitchNafallo: welcome :)02:38
makoalright02:38
Nafallohi all! :-)02:38
Nafallosup? :-)02:38
makoHow to handle roles when the owner of it is on vacation? (ChristianBjlevik)02:38
segfaultthanks02:38
makoi seem to remember this was about something in specific02:38
Nafalloah, yes.02:38
makowas it smurf and DNS issues?02:39
Nafalloubuntu-se.org needs to be moved to the new dedicated servers ip.02:39
Nafallobut I think smurfix handles that, and he is still on vac, no?02:39
makosmurfix is here :)02:39
makoso if he's on vacation he's doing a poor job of it02:40
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elmoyes, ubuntu.com email works for all maintainers who have a signed CoC in LP02:40
smurfixback02:40
elmoe.g. even smurfix's and kobold's work now ;-P02:40
smurfixelmo: cool02:40
makovery cool02:41
koboldelmo: does fabio.tranchitella@ubuntu.com work, too?02:41
elmokobold: just lpname@ubuntu.com02:41
Nafalloanyway, this happens on lot of other stuff aswell. as soon as the owner of the thing goes away things stalls. we should have some overlaying priviliege owner or something...02:41
Nafallosmurfix: yay! glad to see you back :-)02:41
koboldelmo: ok02:41
KamionNafallo: depends on the type of "thing" ...02:41
makoNafallo: ok, everyone agrees that parallelizing things is a good idea02:41
elmokobold: which is 'kobold' for you - sorry, there were too many problems with first.last@ and internationalization02:41
NafalloKamion: indeed, but in this case dns-servers should have more admins ;-)02:42
makoNafallo: but this is going to be a constant struggle02:42
koboldelmo: no problem, just curious about that..02:42
makowe can say "everything should be doable by two people" but that won't make it happen :)02:42
smurfixWRT DNS, I'll probably switch to secure DNS updates and let the people in question do their zones themselves02:42
makosmurfix: excellent02:42
Nafallomako: does it have to be? :-) can't we just see to that the duties of the person on vacation can be appointed to another person during that time?02:43
makoNafallo: that should handle DNS02:43
Nafallosmurfix: yay! rock on :-)02:43
elmoNafallo: it's not realistic to assume that everything can and should have multiple redundant backups02:43
elmobecause it ignores all the fun trust and expertise issues02:43
elmoit's much better to deal with stuff on a case-by-case basis, as and when needed02:44
KamionNafallo: we can say that as general policy but it still has to be done, and you have to find somebody else willing, appropriate, and able to take over, and you have to realise it's going to be a problem ahead of time, etc. - it's something we can try to improve but it's not something we can say "henceforth it will be this way and everything will be fine", if you see what I mean02:44
makoNafallo: i think that's already the case. that's basically the last item in the CoC02:44
smurfixNafallo: I already did delegate root on my box to somebody, he could have done an update if urgent. It was just a small matter of asking the right people who that person is ;-)02:44
Nafallosmurfix: who is somebody? ;-)02:44
makoNafallo: should have asked that like 3 weeks ago :)02:44
Kamionit's certainly good to have good records of who does what so that we have a better chance of spotting problems ahead of time02:45
=== mako nods to Kamion
Nafalloanyway, this point was to raise discussion :-)02:45
Kamionin this case it sounds like the right people didn't know ahead of time, but we'll know next time - until a different person goes on holiday :-)02:45
makoNafallo: so perhaps one constructive idea is to come up with a plan for documenting these things02:45
makoNafallo: and then to go around to places you see as single points of failure and making sure that they participate in creating that documentation02:46
makoNafallo: you put it somewhere like on the wiki02:46
makowe'll just put the root pw for smurfix's machine on the wiki02:46
makoproblemed solved02:46
Nafallomako: right! :-)02:46
Nafallohehe02:47
=== smurfix grabs his argument enhancer to convince mako that that's probably not a good idea
makoNafallo: so, since this is something that you have been thinking about02:47
ajmitchsmurfix: no?02:48
makoNafallo: maybe you can push that?02:48
makoNafallo: i think with a little bit of cat herding, you could create a useful set of resources that would save many pepple much time and frustration :)02:48
Nafallomako: sure. right now I wonder who delegates dedicated server. hno73 is on vacation, no? ;-)02:48
makoNafallo: add that to the list :)02:49
makoNafallo: cool :)02:49
Nafallomako: yepp :-)02:49
makoNafallo: can we move on?02:49
makoanything else?02:49
Nafallomako: sure. I had what I came for ;-)02:49
makoNext Item Is: Software Freedom Day reports from locoteams, let's hear what happened!02:49
makoanyone have anything to report02:49
makobecause i do02:49
Nafallofor Sweden, nothing yet.02:49
=== mako organized an event convenient located like 100 meters from my home in harvard square in cambridge/boston :)
makohanded out about ~400 ubuntu CDs02:50
makodidn't manage to get any SFD CDs02:50
Nafalloyay02:50
makohad ~7-8 people02:51
NafalloSFD == TheOpenCD?02:51
makoyes02:51
Nafallooki02:51
makowe talked to most people we gave the CDs02:51
makoone person saw the CDs in my hand and asked "is that an ubuntu CD?"02:51
makoseveral people who were already ubuntu users approached us as well02:51
makowhich was pretty cool02:51
makoand it seemed like almost everyone knew firefox02:52
makowe gave away loads of x86 and many PPC CDs and almost no AMD6402:53
makothe fun part was trying to guess the mac users02:53
makoi got pretty good at it02:53
segfaultthere were no langpacks in the livecd02:53
segfault:(02:53
segfaultbesides en.02:53
makothe fashionable and arty people all use macs02:53
ograsegfault, no space02:53
makolike Kamion and elmo02:53
segfaultyeah, i know..02:54
Nafallohehe, and the hardcores use amd64, no? ;-)02:54
makoNafallo: something like that :)02:54
makowell apparently *nobody* does :)02:54
ograhey02:54
makowe gave away like 2 :)02:54
Nafallohehe02:54
Nafallothe hardcore users already got ubuntu installed ;-)02:55
makoogra: i think it's clear that a random sample of ubuntu users has more amd64 users than a random sample of people on the street :)02:55
makoin any case02:55
ogra:)02:55
makoi know we sent many cds to other teams02:55
makoso i think if we multiply my experience times a couple hundred, you have a vision of how things went :)02:55
makopretty cool02:55
segfault/w/window prev02:55
segfaultops.02:55
makosmurfix: LoCoTeamMeeting: find a (new) date, find who's responsible for these items at Canonical etc.02:56
smurfixyes02:56
smurfixwe tried to hold a loco meeting yesterday02:56
Kamionmako: arty> haha02:56
smurfixsee the LoCoTeamMeeting page02:56
smurfixunfortunately it seems that the announcement didn't arrive at the mailng list for whatever reason02:57
makoKamion, elmo: you guys are practically painters02:57
smurfixso we couldn't actually get anything done02:57
elmo... man, only a student for a couple of weeks, and he's already high02:57
elmo;-P02:57
makosmurfix: you going to reschedule?02:57
smurfixYann2: anything you want to add?02:58
makoYann2: please go ahead02:58
makoi'd like to come to the next one02:58
Yann2smurfix > not really, i thought maybe we could go through some of the locoteam meeting points, as long as canonical people are here02:58
makoYann2: i really think it's another meeting02:59
Yann2well, go ahead :)02:59
smurfixesp. we would like to know who considers themselves responsible for some of the points on that agenda02:59
makoYann2: i will make it to the next one if it's at a time that i can02:59
smurfixso that if they're not actually here at the moment we can grab them to find a convenient time02:59
=== mako nods
makook, for trademark issues, you should coordinate with jane unless she delegates to someone else02:59
makoanyone using the mark should get a license from the the foundation/canonical03:00
Yann2already mailed, waiting for an answer03:00
makoit shouldn't cost anything but it's the best idea03:00
makoYann2: right.. you seem to be the first person to do many things around here :)03:00
makoYann2: which is totally great.. but it means you have to let people figure out exactly how it is done :)03:01
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mako"Distribution of Cds and conference packs - logistics issues" should coordinate with marilize and with jane silber03:01
fraidehi every body...03:01
makosibls and marilize.. or email info@shipit.ubuntu.com03:01
makofraide: hey there03:01
smurfixmako: silbs ;-)03:01
makoSFD plans seems to be moot at this point03:01
smurfixmako: true -- don't know how that ended up there ;-)03:02
mako"Hosting: Ubuntu-provided vs. sponsored vs ..?" should be discussed with henrik and smurfix i guess.. if you need more authority, i'm not entirely sure who that would be.. it might have been me but i can't really speak for canonical any more03:02
smurfixhenrik scheduled the last meeting with us, but he didn't show up03:03
Yann2it already was, I think we got some kind of arrangement03:03
makoYann2: good03:03
makoif by "Relations to Canonical" you are also including relations to the rest of the ubuntu project and the foundation.. i may be able to help with that03:03
makoor jdub03:03
makomaybe03:03
makothat's my brainstorming03:03
makonone of those people have actually agreed to do it though :)03:03
makobut it's an idea of contacts03:03
smurfixOK, thanks, that helps a lot03:04
makoif they can't do it, they should be able to tell you who can03:04
makosmurfix: please announce the next meeting on -news or something03:04
makosmurfix: msg me if you need moderation for that list03:04
Yann2mako > a common contact for every locoteam stuff would be great03:04
smurfixwill do03:04
Yann2quite complicated if each team has to mail 4 or 5 people to get information ;)03:05
makoYann2: yes.. that's the locoteam list though, right?03:05
makoYann2: you run into language issues quite quickly03:05
smurfix... assuming all these people are on the list03:05
Yann2mako > i'm doing my best :p03:05
makoYann2: or maybe i don't understand03:05
makoYann2: in any case, lets discussd ita t the loco team meeting03:06
mako:)03:06
makoYann2: next monday would work for me03:06
makojust throwing that out there :)03:06
makosmurfix: anything else on locos?03:06
makobecause if not....03:06
Yann2I probably won't be there, but titus` might be. titus` ? :)03:06
smurfixmako: no -- next time03:06
titus`yes I can03:06
makotime for..  Any other business?03:06
makotitus`: cool03:06
makogoing once03:07
makogoing twice03:07
=== mako pounds the gavel
makothanks for coming everyone03:07
makotwo weeks from TODAY03:08
makohow about UTC2003:08
\shyepp03:08
\shfine03:08
makoanything later than that i probably won't make it03:09
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Yann_re.. did I miss something ? -_-03:10
\shYann_: the end03:10
Yann_:D03:10
makoYann2: not really, just the end of the meeting03:10
makoAgendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council03:13
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mako] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council
makowhoops03:13
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