[01:58] <womble> mako: Did you get a chance to review my wiki page for completeness?
[02:00] <mako> womble: no, i haven't had an opportunity
[02:00] <womble> mako: 'k.  thanks.
[02:01] <womble> I'll live until the next meeting, and work up a bit more credit.  <grin>
[02:02] <mako> Kamion: do you know where elmo or or sabdfl is?
[02:04] <Kamion> elmo got to bed pretty late last night judging from /whois; I'll SMS him in a moment
[02:04] <Kamion> no idea about sabdfl
[02:06] <mako> Kamion: /me can go find his phone and sms mark
[02:06] <Kamion> I've got my phone here, I'll do it now
[02:07] <Kamion> mako: SMSed mark
[02:07] <Kamion> hi elmo
[02:07] <mako> Kamion: sounds good
[02:07] <elmo> mark won't be able to make it
[02:07] <mako> elmo: hola
[02:07] <Kamion> ah, ok
[02:08] <elmo> ADSL is down for all of South Ken
[02:08] <elmo> so both home and office are broken for him
[02:08] <mako> quite annoying
[02:08] <mako> well lets move on then.. hopefully BT or whoever is at fault will fix it :)
[02:08] <smurfix> he could use his phone ;-)
[02:08] <mako> greetings everyone
[02:09] <mako> now would be a good time to state your name for the log
[02:10] <mako> well, this looks like it will be a short meeting
[02:10] <Kamion> (yay)
[02:10] <mako> if you are on the agenda as a new member candidate, please go ahead and prepare (in advance) a short summary of the things you've done for ubuntu so far
[02:11] <mako> and the things you plan to do in the future or the places you want to do take ubuntu
[02:11] <Yann2> (if theree's some time left at the end of the agenda, some questions of the locoteams of yesterday are still without answer)
[02:11] <mako> your record and your vision
[02:11] <mako> Yann2: yes, that should be fine
[02:11] <mako> in any case.. 
[02:11] <mako> smurfix: no new loco teams this meeting?
[02:11] <mako> none of the agenda
[02:11] <smurfix> I was on holiday the last two weeks
[02:12] <ogra> phew, the proposed members list is looong
[02:12] <smurfix> I'll get them rallied for next time
[02:12] <mako> smurfix: sounds good :)
[02:12] <mako> a little bit of late (norther hemisphere) summer lull is appreciated :)
[02:12] <mako> in terms of new members
[02:13] <mako> 3 people were deferred last time
[02:13] <mako> i didn't see any of their names in the intro
[02:13] <ogra> mako, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/
[02:13] <ogra> mako, thats the new list afaik
[02:14] <mako> ogra: i think people still need to add themselves to the agenda
[02:14] <elmo> ogra: that doesn't supersede the agenda
[02:14] <ogra> hmm, ok, i understood it different...
[02:14] <mako> ogra: you declare your intention on that page and then add yourself to the agenda when you can attend
[02:15] <mako> ogra: very few people on that list are here
[02:15] <ogra> ok
[02:15] <smurfix> NB, somebody should go through the proposed people there and enable those that already *are* members (like myself ;-)
[02:15] <sivang> hi all
[02:15] <smurfix> s/enable/approve
[02:15] <sivang> hey mako 
[02:15] <mako> smurfix: yes, ok :)
[02:15] <mako> sivang: hey there
[02:15] <mako> ok
[02:15] <elmo> actually, seriously
[02:15] <mako> is DankoAlexeyev RobertStoffers or JonathanJesse here?
[02:16] <elmo> if someone wants to volunteer to go through the list of proposed people and work out who should be approved, based on previous CC meetings, that'd be great
[02:16] <elmo> any takers?
[02:16] <sivang> mako: is there any way around lp\s signing CoC for getting approved as a member in lp? (and being able to use the u.c mail alias)
[02:17] <elmo> sivang: no
[02:17] <elmo> sivang: if signing the CoC in LP isn't working for you, ping the LP team about getting it fixed
[02:17] <elmo> sivang: if that doesn't work, talk to me or sabdfl
[02:18] <mako> i have at least two different launchpad accounts and can never remember which one does what
[02:18] <mako> neither seem to be able to change this
[02:18] <mako> grr
[02:18] <elmo> mako: change which?
[02:19] <mako> approving members
[02:19] <mako> anyway
[02:19] <mako> lets move on
[02:19] <mako> it's not worth wrestling with lp in the meeting
[02:19] <mako> alright
[02:19] <mako> danko, robert, or jonathan?
[02:19] <mako> no
[02:19] <sivang> elmo: we'll do, thanks
[02:20] <mako> kobold: you're up
[02:20] <mako> kobold should be Fabio Tranchitella
[02:20] <Kamion> doko: can you say a few words about kobold as your SoC student?
[02:20] <kobold> mako: yes.
[02:21] <mako> kobold: tell us what you've done with ubuntu so far and what your vision of the future is
[02:21] <doko> Kamion: unfortunately I can't tell anything bad ;-)
[02:21] <mako> doko: damn :)
[02:21] <kobold> I've worked on Ubuntu zope packages for the Google Summer of Code project, and my mentor is doko.
[02:21] <kobold> Our goal was the integration between debian and ubuntu about zope packaging ..
[02:21] <doko> he did prepare the zope* packages, updated zope products, and extended dzhandle (zope-common) to the specs that we did extend on debconf
[02:22] <Kamion> doko: well, that's a good start :)
[02:22] <kobold> with the support of a common team.
[02:22] <kobold> I packaged zope2.8, plone2.1 and CPS, other than some minor changes within zope-common and zope-debhelper.
[02:23] <elmo> FWIW, I haven't really examined the packages closely, but I've seen there's a non-trivial amount of it, and I'm glad to see the divergence between ubuntu and debian zope packaging being fixed
[02:23] <kobold> elmo: I think we should try to join the effort, and the SoC project has been a great opportunity to do so.
[02:23] <doko> elmo: yes, that was the goal, having a common packaging base
[02:24] <kobold> I'm the maintainer of plone and related packages in Debian, too, and having a common base-set for both distros is a great thing.
[02:24] <mako> kobold: so, are you going to be continuing this work in ubuntu not that your SoC work is done?
[02:24] <mako> i agree that the work on common packages is a fantastic step
[02:24] <kobold> mako: sure, this is my main interest.
[02:25] <mako> great
[02:25] <mako> kobold: well, thank you so much for your contributions
[02:25] <mako> are you looking to try your hand in other areas in ubuntu as well or have you not thought that far forward yet? :)
[02:25] <kobold> My main goal would be to establish and support a common team between Debian, Ubuntu and other deb-based distros, maybe not only about Zope packaging.
[02:25] <kobold> mako: not, I haven't thought that yet.
[02:25] <mako> kobold: wonderful. we need as many people like you as we can get
[02:26] <kobold> I've still some minor things to do about zope/plone.. ;)
[02:26] <mako> kobold: also, you didn't mention where you where you are from :)
[02:26] <kobold> I live half time in Italy (Turin), half time in the south of Hungary (Pcs)
[02:27] <mako> are you involved in loco teams yet in either place?
[02:27] <kobold> My hungarian is far from being perfect... and about italian, I'm not involved (yet).
[02:28] <mako> kobold: alright then
[02:28] <mako> Kamion, elmo ?
[02:28] <kobold> mako: thanks a lot.
[02:28] <Kamion> yes, definitely
[02:28] <elmo> ack
[02:28] <kobold> Kamion, elmo: thanks.
[02:28] <mako> kobold: welcome! :)
[02:28] <ajmitch> kobold: great to have you as a member :)
[02:29] <mako> as soon as i figure out how to get lp working again, i'll approve you :)
[02:29] <doko> kobold: congrats :)
[02:29] <ogra> welcome kobold 
[02:29] <\sh> welcome kobold :) nice to have u onboard
[02:29] <kobold> \sh, doko, ogra, ajmitch: thanks!
[02:29] <mako> is there anybody else here for membership that was not on the agenda?
[02:29] <mako> alright then, moving on
[02:29] <mako> segfault: you have the next agenda item
[02:30] <segfault> ok
[02:30] <Kamion> mako: I'll do it now seeing as I figured out how to earlier
[02:30] <mako> Kamion: thanks :)
[02:30] <mako> Kamion: you should approve smurfix while you are in there :)
[02:30] <segfault> well, first i'd like to apologize for not being able to show in the last meeting.
[02:30] <mako> segfault: it's fine. that's why we have meetings at different times.. not everyone can make all of them
[02:31] <Kamion> mako: already did earlier
[02:31] <Kamion> (done)
[02:31] <mako> Kamion: thanks
[02:31] <segfault> as i can see, what i asked ia already being done, lists for translations discussion, like ubuntu-l10n-es
[02:31] <segfault> i created one in listas.prognus.com.br, but however i think its better to have all lists in one place, lists.ubuntu.com
[02:32] <segfault> hehe
[02:32] <mako> segfault: so basically you asked for language specific l10n lists, someone was uncomfortable with this asking you to use transloator and loco lists, and then somebody got convinced and the lists started being created?
[02:32] <segfault> yeah, i guess so
[02:32] <mako> segfault: if that's the case, it sounds like your problem has been solved :)
[02:33] <mako> segfault: anything else on the topic that needs to be discussed?
[02:33] <segfault> yes, now who is in charge of lists administration?
[02:33] <mako> segfault: jdub
[02:33] <mako> segfault: i'm an admin for many lists
[02:33] <mako> meaning i can approve messages and such
[02:33] <mako> but i can't create new lists
[02:34] <segfault> and how about making one list not "private"?
[02:34] <segfault> we have a list called ubuntu-br, but it doesn't show in the main page
[02:34] <mako> segfault: go to the lists info page and find the email address of the admin in the footer
[02:34] <mako> segfault: and then email that person
[02:34] <segfault> ok
[02:35] <mako> the non-english lists will not be maintained by jdub or me but rather by some speaker of the language
[02:35] <segfault> and one last question, how i can get an ubuntu.com email? :)
[02:35] <mako> elmo?
[02:35] <ogra> segfault, you get it if you are member
[02:35] <ogra> segfault, automatically assigned to your launchpad account
[02:36] <segfault> humm
[02:36] <mako> ogra: does that actually work now?
[02:36] <ogra> mako, apparently
[02:36] <mako> wow :)
[02:36] <segfault> i am acctually a member, but didn't know that
[02:36] <segfault> will test, then
[02:36] <mako> segfault: well, don't feel too bad. i didn't know it either :)
[02:36] <ogra> mako, at least  handfull of MOTUs told me it works
[02:36] <mako> i mean, i knew it was supposed to work
[02:36] <ajmitch> mako: we heard at last week's TB meeting
[02:36] <mako> i didn't know it *actually* worked :)
[02:36] <mako> ajmitch: well that's excellent
[02:36] <ajmitch> mako: don't sound so surprised at stuff working ;)
[02:37] <mako> ajmitch: i've been here longer than you ;)
[02:37] <ajmitch> yeah :)
[02:37] <mako> anyway, is Christian Bjlevik around?
[02:37] <mako> segfault: well, thanks for showing up :)
[02:38] <segfault> rcpt to:<segfault@ubuntu.com>
[02:38] <mako> segfault: i'm glad to hear the list issue is already tackled
[02:38] <\sh> mako: it's nafallo...
[02:38] <segfault> 250 Ok: queued as C1075B6846D
[02:38] <segfault> well, looks like its working
[02:38] <mako> segfault: killer
[02:38] <mako> Nafallo: he appears :)
[02:38] <ajmitch> Nafallo: welcome :)
[02:38] <mako> alright
[02:38] <Nafallo> hi all! :-)
[02:38] <Nafallo> sup? :-)
[02:38] <mako> How to handle roles when the owner of it is on vacation? (ChristianBjlevik)
[02:38] <segfault> thanks
[02:38] <mako> i seem to remember this was about something in specific
[02:38] <Nafallo> ah, yes.
[02:39] <mako> was it smurf and DNS issues?
[02:39] <Nafallo> ubuntu-se.org needs to be moved to the new dedicated servers ip.
[02:39] <Nafallo> but I think smurfix handles that, and he is still on vac, no?
[02:39] <mako> smurfix is here :)
[02:40] <mako> so if he's on vacation he's doing a poor job of it
[02:40] <elmo> yes, ubuntu.com email works for all maintainers who have a signed CoC in LP
[02:40] <smurfix> back
[02:40] <elmo> e.g. even smurfix's and kobold's work now ;-P
[02:40] <smurfix> elmo: cool
[02:41] <mako> very cool
[02:41] <kobold> elmo: does fabio.tranchitella@ubuntu.com work, too?
[02:41] <elmo> kobold: just lpname@ubuntu.com
[02:41] <Nafallo> anyway, this happens on lot of other stuff aswell. as soon as the owner of the thing goes away things stalls. we should have some overlaying priviliege owner or something...
[02:41] <Nafallo> smurfix: yay! glad to see you back :-)
[02:41] <kobold> elmo: ok
[02:41] <Kamion> Nafallo: depends on the type of "thing" ...
[02:41] <mako> Nafallo: ok, everyone agrees that parallelizing things is a good idea
[02:41] <elmo> kobold: which is 'kobold' for you - sorry, there were too many problems with first.last@ and internationalization
[02:42] <Nafallo> Kamion: indeed, but in this case dns-servers should have more admins ;-)
[02:42] <mako> Nafallo: but this is going to be a constant struggle
[02:42] <kobold> elmo: no problem, just curious about that..
[02:42] <mako> we can say "everything should be doable by two people" but that won't make it happen :)
[02:42] <smurfix> WRT DNS, I'll probably switch to secure DNS updates and let the people in question do their zones themselves
[02:42] <mako> smurfix: excellent
[02:43] <Nafallo> mako: does it have to be? :-) can't we just see to that the duties of the person on vacation can be appointed to another person during that time?
[02:43] <mako> Nafallo: that should handle DNS
[02:43] <Nafallo> smurfix: yay! rock on :-)
[02:43] <elmo> Nafallo: it's not realistic to assume that everything can and should have multiple redundant backups
[02:43] <elmo> because it ignores all the fun trust and expertise issues
[02:44] <elmo> it's much better to deal with stuff on a case-by-case basis, as and when needed
[02:44] <Kamion> Nafallo: we can say that as general policy but it still has to be done, and you have to find somebody else willing, appropriate, and able to take over, and you have to realise it's going to be a problem ahead of time, etc. - it's something we can try to improve but it's not something we can say "henceforth it will be this way and everything will be fine", if you see what I mean
[02:44] <mako> Nafallo: i think that's already the case. that's basically the last item in the CoC
[02:44] <smurfix> Nafallo: I already did delegate root on my box to somebody, he could have done an update if urgent. It was just a small matter of asking the right people who that person is ;-)
[02:44] <Nafallo> smurfix: who is somebody? ;-)
[02:44] <mako> Nafallo: should have asked that like 3 weeks ago :)
[02:45] <Kamion> it's certainly good to have good records of who does what so that we have a better chance of spotting problems ahead of time
[02:45] <Nafallo> anyway, this point was to raise discussion :-)
[02:45] <Kamion> in this case it sounds like the right people didn't know ahead of time, but we'll know next time - until a different person goes on holiday :-)
[02:45] <mako> Nafallo: so perhaps one constructive idea is to come up with a plan for documenting these things
[02:46] <mako> Nafallo: and then to go around to places you see as single points of failure and making sure that they participate in creating that documentation
[02:46] <mako> Nafallo: you put it somewhere like on the wiki
[02:46] <mako> we'll just put the root pw for smurfix's machine on the wiki
[02:46] <mako> problemed solved
[02:46] <Nafallo> mako: right! :-)
[02:47] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:47] <mako> Nafallo: so, since this is something that you have been thinking about
[02:48] <ajmitch> smurfix: no?
[02:48] <mako> Nafallo: maybe you can push that?
[02:48] <mako> Nafallo: i think with a little bit of cat herding, you could create a useful set of resources that would save many pepple much time and frustration :)
[02:48] <Nafallo> mako: sure. right now I wonder who delegates dedicated server. hno73 is on vacation, no? ;-)
[02:49] <mako> Nafallo: add that to the list :)
[02:49] <mako> Nafallo: cool :)
[02:49] <Nafallo> mako: yepp :-)
[02:49] <mako> Nafallo: can we move on?
[02:49] <mako> anything else?
[02:49] <Nafallo> mako: sure. I had what I came for ;-)
[02:49] <mako> Next Item Is: Software Freedom Day reports from locoteams, let's hear what happened!
[02:49] <mako> anyone have anything to report
[02:49] <mako> because i do
[02:49] <Nafallo> for Sweden, nothing yet.
[02:50] <mako> handed out about ~400 ubuntu CDs
[02:50] <mako> didn't manage to get any SFD CDs
[02:50] <Nafallo> yay
[02:51] <mako> had ~7-8 people
[02:51] <Nafallo> SFD == TheOpenCD?
[02:51] <mako> yes
[02:51] <Nafallo> oki
[02:51] <mako> we talked to most people we gave the CDs
[02:51] <mako> one person saw the CDs in my hand and asked "is that an ubuntu CD?"
[02:51] <mako> several people who were already ubuntu users approached us as well
[02:51] <mako> which was pretty cool
[02:52] <mako> and it seemed like almost everyone knew firefox
[02:53] <mako> we gave away loads of x86 and many PPC CDs and almost no AMD64
[02:53] <mako> the fun part was trying to guess the mac users
[02:53] <mako> i got pretty good at it
[02:53] <segfault> there were no langpacks in the livecd
[02:53] <segfault> :(
[02:53] <segfault> besides en.
[02:53] <mako> the fashionable and arty people all use macs
[02:53] <ogra> segfault, no space
[02:53] <mako> like Kamion and elmo
[02:54] <segfault> yeah, i know..
[02:54] <Nafallo> hehe, and the hardcores use amd64, no? ;-)
[02:54] <mako> Nafallo: something like that :)
[02:54] <mako> well apparently *nobody* does :)
[02:54] <ogra> hey
[02:54] <mako> we gave away like 2 :)
[02:54] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:55] <Nafallo> the hardcore users already got ubuntu installed ;-)
[02:55] <mako> ogra: i think it's clear that a random sample of ubuntu users has more amd64 users than a random sample of people on the street :)
[02:55] <mako> in any case
[02:55] <ogra> :)
[02:55] <mako> i know we sent many cds to other teams
[02:55] <mako> so i think if we multiply my experience times a couple hundred, you have a vision of how things went :)
[02:55] <mako> pretty cool
[02:55] <segfault> /w/window prev
[02:55] <segfault> ops.
[02:56] <mako> smurfix: LoCoTeamMeeting: find a (new) date, find who's responsible for these items at Canonical etc.
[02:56] <smurfix> yes
[02:56] <smurfix> we tried to hold a loco meeting yesterday
[02:56] <Kamion> mako: arty> haha
[02:56] <smurfix> see the LoCoTeamMeeting page
[02:57] <smurfix> unfortunately it seems that the announcement didn't arrive at the mailng list for whatever reason
[02:57] <mako> Kamion, elmo: you guys are practically painters
[02:57] <smurfix> so we couldn't actually get anything done
[02:57] <elmo> ... man, only a student for a couple of weeks, and he's already high
[02:57] <elmo> ;-P
[02:57] <mako> smurfix: you going to reschedule?
[02:58] <smurfix> Yann2: anything you want to add?
[02:58] <mako> Yann2: please go ahead
[02:58] <mako> i'd like to come to the next one
[02:58] <Yann2> smurfix > not really, i thought maybe we could go through some of the locoteam meeting points, as long as canonical people are here
[02:59] <mako> Yann2: i really think it's another meeting
[02:59] <Yann2> well, go ahead :)
[02:59] <smurfix> esp. we would like to know who considers themselves responsible for some of the points on that agenda
[02:59] <mako> Yann2: i will make it to the next one if it's at a time that i can
[02:59] <smurfix> so that if they're not actually here at the moment we can grab them to find a convenient time
[02:59] <mako> ok, for trademark issues, you should coordinate with jane unless she delegates to someone else
[03:00] <mako> anyone using the mark should get a license from the the foundation/canonical
[03:00] <Yann2> already mailed, waiting for an answer
[03:00] <mako> it shouldn't cost anything but it's the best idea
[03:00] <mako> Yann2: right.. you seem to be the first person to do many things around here :)
[03:01] <mako> Yann2: which is totally great.. but it means you have to let people figure out exactly how it is done :)
[03:01] <mako> "Distribution of Cds and conference packs - logistics issues" should coordinate with marilize and with jane silber
[03:01] <fraide> hi every body...
[03:01] <mako> sibls and marilize.. or email info@shipit.ubuntu.com
[03:01] <mako> fraide: hey there
[03:01] <smurfix> mako: silbs ;-)
[03:01] <mako> SFD plans seems to be moot at this point
[03:02] <smurfix> mako: true -- don't know how that ended up there ;-)
[03:02] <mako> "Hosting: Ubuntu-provided vs. sponsored vs ..?" should be discussed with henrik and smurfix i guess.. if you need more authority, i'm not entirely sure who that would be.. it might have been me but i can't really speak for canonical any more
[03:03] <smurfix> henrik scheduled the last meeting with us, but he didn't show up
[03:03] <Yann2> it already was, I think we got some kind of arrangement
[03:03] <mako> Yann2: good
[03:03] <mako> if by "Relations to Canonical" you are also including relations to the rest of the ubuntu project and the foundation.. i may be able to help with that
[03:03] <mako> or jdub
[03:03] <mako> maybe
[03:03] <mako> that's my brainstorming
[03:03] <mako> none of those people have actually agreed to do it though :)
[03:03] <mako> but it's an idea of contacts
[03:04] <smurfix> OK, thanks, that helps a lot
[03:04] <mako> if they can't do it, they should be able to tell you who can
[03:04] <mako> smurfix: please announce the next meeting on -news or something
[03:04] <mako> smurfix: msg me if you need moderation for that list
[03:04] <Yann2> mako > a common contact for every locoteam stuff would be great
[03:04] <smurfix> will do
[03:05] <Yann2> quite complicated if each team has to mail 4 or 5 people to get information ;)
[03:05] <mako> Yann2: yes.. that's the locoteam list though, right?
[03:05] <mako> Yann2: you run into language issues quite quickly
[03:05] <smurfix> ... assuming all these people are on the list
[03:05] <Yann2> mako > i'm doing my best :p
[03:05] <mako> Yann2: or maybe i don't understand
[03:06] <mako> Yann2: in any case, lets discussd ita t the loco team meeting
[03:06] <mako> :)
[03:06] <mako> Yann2: next monday would work for me
[03:06] <mako> just throwing that out there :)
[03:06] <mako> smurfix: anything else on locos?
[03:06] <mako> because if not....
[03:06] <Yann2> I probably won't be there, but titus` might be. titus` ? :)
[03:06] <smurfix> mako: no -- next time
[03:06] <titus`> yes I can
[03:06] <mako> time for..  Any other business?
[03:06] <mako> titus`: cool
[03:07] <mako> going once
[03:07] <mako> going twice
[03:07] <mako> thanks for coming everyone
[03:08] <mako> two weeks from TODAY
[03:08] <mako> how about UTC20
[03:08] <\sh> yepp
[03:08] <\sh> fine
[03:09] <mako> anything later than that i probably won't make it
[03:10] <Yann_> re.. did I miss something ? -_-
[03:10] <\sh> Yann_: the end
[03:10] <Yann_> :D
[03:10] <mako> Yann2: not really, just the end of the meeting
[03:13] <mako> Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council
[03:13] <mako> whoops
[03:20] <Lathiat> A10