/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/09/19/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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froudcan anyone clue me on the revision number before kubuntu profiling was removed?12:23
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froud1756?12:27
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froudFAQ GUIDE FORK @ r 1757   http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-September/003550.html01:03
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trickiehello all01:19
trickiei haven't been in here since the Hoary release01:20
trickiejust wanted to say breezy looks cool01:20
trickieand the doc team seems to be doing some good work01:20
trickiecongrats! 01:20
Burgundaviahey trickie, long time no see01:27
trickieBurgundavia, yeah good to be back02:09
trickieBurgundavia, i have some more free time again now, so i am tossing up whether to get back into the doc team02:09
Burgundaviatrickie, you should, it is good for the sole02:10
Burgundaviaor is it the soul?02:11
trickieBurgundavia, he he yes it is... i was bummed that i missed the whole breezy cycle... been watching from a distance02:11
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jsgotangcomorning02:36
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jsgotangcohey rob^03:28
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carthikHi folks -- there was a guy at #ubuntu who installed breezy by accident -- since the download page lists breezy first.04:58
carthikShouldnt the stable version be right on top? 04:58
HrdwrBoByes it should05:14
HrdwrBoBI thought that had been fixed05:14
HrdwrBoBit came up yesterday05:15
carthikI stopped short of editing it since i wasn't sure i should do it without discussion - unsure of policies, in other words. Thanks, HrdwrBoB 05:17
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rob^hi..08:32
Madpilothi rob^08:32
rob^Madpilot hi08:32
robitailleMadpilot, so how was your brother talk?08:36
robitailleI didn't manage to make it to campus tonight...08:37
Madpilotrobitaille: it went well, he had good slides and gave a pretty good talk08:44
Madpilottwo talks actually, one about Ubuntu & the 2nd shorter one about Google SoC08:44
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Burgundaviarob^, should I be hacking the QT in the branch or the trunk?08:49
robitailleBurgundavia,  sorry about missing your talk...it was a crazy night at home :(08:50
Burgundaviarobitaille, np08:51
Burgundaviarobitaille, I am sure I will give more08:52
MadpilotBurgundavia: you going to release the slides you used? CC-BY-SA and stick them up somewhere for the rest of the community to use?08:52
Burgundaviaguess I should08:52
MadpilotI've got webspace if you need it - too back Ubuntu's FTP support bites so much...08:53
Burgundaviahave we sorted out that is was not Ace of Space?08:54
MadpilotI'm pretty sure it's not, but I'll file a help ticket for more info on assigning FTP accounts...08:55
Madpilotyou could always upload it to the U wiki as an attachement08:55
rob^Burgundavia, I would say you would be safe with the trunk, it can be copied to the branch when you are ready to release it08:55
rob^just let jbailey know what the go is08:55
Burgundaviarob^, ok08:56
rob^I have to get ready for night shift :( catch you all later08:57
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Burgundaviathunderbird is even stupider. I learned today that it keeps all of its email in memory when running09:16
Madpilotso what happens to your email if your system shuts down unexpectedly? (power failure or something?)09:17
rob^have you tried sylpheed-claws?09:19
robitaillethere is a copy of disk, hopefully relatively well insynch.  But  it's a lot faster to deal with large indexes if its all in memory.09:19
Burgundaviait is kept on disk, just kept in memory for searching purposes09:19
rob^lightweight, gtk+ nice email client09:19
Madpilotah, OK. sounds like a good way to clog your RAM/swap, in any case...09:20
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robitaillerob^,  never try  sylpheed-claws;  between tries at evolution/thunderbird evety fewmonths, I usually fall back at mutt for something simple09:22
rob^its very good, I've used it on a few low spec machines09:27
robitaillethe sales pitch on its web site is pretty good.  09:28
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mdkehi all10:20
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Burgundaviasalut mdke 10:20
Burgundaviahey froud, long time no see10:20
mdkehi Burgundavia, froud 10:21
Burgundaviamdke, the QT hacking I am going to do tomorrow. Breezy branch or trunk?10:21
mdkei would agree with rob10:22
Burgundaviaok10:22
mdkeit's up to you as long as you know jbailey know if you want the doc to go into breezy10:22
Burgundaviaok10:22
mdkewe have a quite large problem with the faqguide pot :/10:22
Burgundaviawhat sort of issues?10:23
froudmdke: what problem10:23
mdkei'm trying to track it down10:24
mdkei'm not sure if there is a problem with the pot or with rosetta10:24
=== Burgundavia needs to crash, night
mdkei can't see anything wrong with the pot10:26
mdkeso maybe it is rosetta10:26
froudwhat is the complaint?10:26
mdkei have to show it to you10:26
mdkebut launchpad is offline right now10:27
froudHmm ok10:27
froud"NEVER come up with a product and then try to find a market. Ever."10:27
froudInstead of :10:27
froudSell your market what they want to buy.10:27
froudwhew, why was the breezy branch made on the whole repos10:30
froudis edubuntu going as a package10:30
froudI know kubuntu is a package by is not introduced to the distro in the same way as ubuntu-docs10:31
froudseems overkill to svn copy * of trunk, no?10:31
mdkeeh?10:32
froudwagga wagga why have edu and kub in ubu breezy branch, just makes to many leaves for the branch10:32
froudb btr 2 svn cp what ubu needs to breezy branch, no?10:33
mdkeok i think i've understood you10:33
mdkebut talking in full sentences would really help10:33
mdkeyes, jbailey copied the whole of trunk10:34
mdkei suppose he will cut out what he doesn't need eventually10:34
froudyah, but when :-)10:34
mdkei don't know10:34
mdkewhy?10:34
froudbetter do do it at start, you see even tough you will prune and clean, you dont reallydelete10:34
froudyou just remove from head :-)10:35
froudmaking log and scroll back big10:35
froudnot a problem, just not optimal on server usage or disk space :-)10:35
froudalso I see changes in branches/breezy we will want those in trunk sometime10:36
froudis somebody following the branch and trunk and making sure they can merge branches back to trunk later10:36
froudwould be shame to have limux in trunk breezy + 1 :-)10:37
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mdkeyes10:38
mdkeof course that will be done10:38
froudok, just making sure10:39
froud:-)10:39
froudnot sure if people r aware of issues like this, so better to say something than shutup and then have the problem to manage later ;-)10:40
mdkerebooting10:41
mdkegonna try recreating the pot with the gnome-doc-utils from breezy10:47
mdkeperhaps this issue is caused by the version in hoary10:47
froudUhm you should be using KDESDK10:47
mdkeinteresting use of the phrase "you should be"10:48
froudxml2pot from kde sdk is what we used last time10:48
froudwe had problems with gdoc utils10:48
mdkeyeah I know10:48
mdkethis time we went with gnome-doc-utils10:49
froudoh well, up to you, whatever works10:49
mdkebrb10:49
froudbitch the pdf transform for FAQ is not able to do its thang due to duplicate id values10:49
froudbut doc is valid, IOW there are no dupes. Now where is the problem10:50
mdkeno idea10:55
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_froud_"There is a connection you feel to the paper and the letters as they press down in a clickety clack chorus that instantly makes you feel alive, like a writer creating a literary classic like the immortal's, Hemingway, Steinbeck, and Faulkner.11:00
_froud_11:00
_froud_Their thoughts and ideas will live forever because they created beautiful works that touched the hearts and minds of generations. 11:00
_froud_Sure, these days everyone has a computer with all the bells and whistles, but if you really want to connect with your 'inner muse' you'll discover the soul of the writer that can only be found when you can let your fingers dance across the keys of a genuine, honest-to-goodness-just-like-the-good-old -days-typewriter.11:00
mdke_froud_, what problems did you have with gnome-doc-utils?11:09
mdkefroud, ^11:10
froudas I recall the pot files had poor syntax11:10
froudhow does the new version look, better?11:11
mdkethan what?11:11
froudthan the first 11:11
mdkesorry I don't understand the question11:11
froudprevious pot file make by prev doc utils11:11
mdkeah11:11
mdkethe same11:11
froudand when you use xml2pot from kde?11:12
mdkei haven't got it11:12
mdkeit requires me to install 99 packages11:13
froudjahmaaan11:13
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dholbachhi11:40
mdkehiya11:41
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klepasmoin12:24
mdkehiya12:25
klepasdon't recall meeting you afore12:26
klepasso, greetings. :-)12:26
mdkehello :)12:28
mdkename is matt12:28
klepasname is Pascal12:28
mdkewelcome to the docteam12:28
klepasthanks12:28
klepasI pop in here every-so-often12:28
klepas:-)12:28
klepaseventually i intend to help out12:28
klepasi reckon i could learn with saying 'no' to a lot of requests made to me.12:31
klepaswould cut down on the workload... :-)12:31
mdkeyeah me too12:32
klepasYou are in a similar strife, eh?12:34
mdkeyep12:34
klepas*Chuckles*12:35
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mdkewhat the hell is sean doing03:51
jjessehis own thing04:10
mdkeindeed04:11
mdkehe exasperates me04:14
highvoltagemdke: you're not the first who have said that :)04:17
mdkei'm sure04:21
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jsgotangcohi all04:35
jsgotangcomdke: more pot bugs huh04:39
mdkeyes04:39
jsgotangcohrmmm04:40
mdkei think we have them licked, but uploading a new pot to rosetta may wipe out a lot of translations, I'm not sure04:41
mdkesean has been playing around with things but has not told us what he is doing, which is annoying04:42
mdkehopefully in the end we will figure something out04:42
jsgotangcoit really annoys me04:42
jsgotangcoi just came from LinuxWorld with no net access all day so i am now catching up atm04:43
jsgotangcohopefully tommorow i get wifi over there04:43
mdke:)04:43
jsgotangcomdke: a new pot will destroy all existing work right04:43
mdkesome things should get merged04:44
mdkei'm not 100% sure how that is done tho04:44
mdkei'm hoping to ask jordi04:45
mdkebut in any case, I don't really see how it can be avoided04:45
mdkewe _have_ to upload a new pot04:45
jsgotangcohrmmm is there a way to test the pot like validating it before sending it to rosetta?04:46
mdkeyes, sean in his last email suggested there was04:46
mdkebut he didn't say how04:46
mdkei've asked in my last email04:47
jsgotangcogrrr it seems he is doing it on purpose to show how weak we are in some areas04:47
mdkeyes04:47
jsgotangcowhat a git04:48
mdkei don't mind, but what annoys me is that he does things without saying what he is doing04:48
mdkethat is unprofessional04:48
mdkeespecially where it involves doing the opposite of what was discussed04:48
jsgotangcoi'd like to kick him off the list but that is not the proper way04:50
mdkehmm04:50
mdkeif he becomes more disruptive, removing svn access would be a possibility I suppose, if discussed in a team meeting and/or CC04:51
jsgotangcosure04:51
jsgotangcome an jbailey are discussing about brainstorming after release for UBZ04:52
jsgotangcowe'll sort this out04:52
mdkegood04:52
mdkewe need a stable working methodology otherwise each release cycle will be mayhem04:53
jsgotangcoyup04:53
jsgotangcosorry mdke i can't help much on this regard, pots are still a mystery to me04:54
mdkenp04:54
mdkehmm04:55
jsgotangcois dapper drake really the name?04:56
jsgotangcooh wait04:56
jsgotangcoi just read the email04:56
mdkeyes04:57
jjesseyup it is04:58
jsgotangcowtf is sean even responding in english05:00
jjessegrin no english that i understand05:01
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mdkesort of stream of consciousness05:05
mdkeanyway, we are getting somewhere05:05
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mdkejordi says that the existing translations will be kept if the strings are identical05:16
mdkeso we should consider uploading a new pot05:16
jsgotangcohmmm05:17
jsgotangcodo you have a new pot already?05:17
mdkeyes05:17
mdkemade from the faqguide from branches/breezy05:17
jsgotangconice05:17
jsgotangcoit will probably work05:17
mdkeit will work but we will get one single file out of the translations (e.g. faqguide.tl.xml)05:18
jsgotangcoyuck that will take forever to load in yelp05:18
jsgotangcobut then if it works...05:18
mdkei'm not sure05:19
jsgotangcommm they seem to be preparing BOFs now for ubz05:21
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jsgotangcohey jordi05:26
jordihi guys05:27
mdkehiya05:27
mdkemy head is spinning a bit right now05:27
jordihehe05:28
jordidon't worry. You're on track :)05:28
jordimdke: do you have a g-d-u makefile setup now?05:28
mdkenope05:28
mdkenot much chance that we can do that05:28
mdkemaybe for breezy+105:28
jordiwith that in place (as directed in the gnome wiki), this is a piece of cake provided your files are using xinclude correcty.05:29
jordireally?05:29
jordiit'd only be a change to the build system, with quite some benefits i guess05:29
mdkei don't have the time to investigate that now...05:29
jordiI can help.05:29
mdkealso it would be a very drastic change at late notice05:29
jordire: that, I don't know the freeze policy so I don't have an opinion.05:30
mdkei think we should stick to doing the pot manually for now05:30
jordiok.05:32
mdkeanyhow we have xincludes working properly, so the next question is, should we use -e to resolve entities05:32
mdkesean says no05:32
mdkedanilo says yes05:32
jordiI erally recommend moving to the standard make setup, but it's too late, it's too late.05:32
jordignome uses -e05:32
jordidanilo wrote the tool, in part.05:32
jordiso you decide :P05:33
mdkeheh05:33
jsgotangcoho ho05:33
jordiif ! test -d bg/; then mkdir bg/; fi05:33
jordiif test -f "C/release-notes.xml"; then d="../"; else d=".././"; fi; \05:33
jordiif ! test -f bg/bg.po; then \05:33
jordi  (cd bg/ && \05:33
jordi    `which xml2po` -e ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/rni18n.xml ${d}C/rndocs.xml ${d}C/rninstallation.xml ${d}C/rnusers.xml ${d}C/rnadmins.xml ${d}C/rndevelopers.xml > bg.po); \05:33
mdkejordi, is it correct to say that if there are a number of entities in the pot file which have the same string, they will only get translated once in rosetta?05:33
jordielse \05:33
jordi  (cd bg/ && \05:33
jordi    `which xml2po` -e -u bg ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/rni18n.xml ${d}C/rndocs.xml ${d}C/rninstallation.xml ${d}C/rnusers.xml ${d}C/rnadmins.xml ${d}C/rndevelopers.xml); \05:33
jordifi05:33
jordioops, big paste, sorry.05:33
jordithis is a snippet of the gnome build05:34
jordithen it does05:34
jordiif test -f "C/release-notes.xml"; then d="../C/"; else d=".././C/"; fi; \05:34
jordi(cd bg/ && \ export PYTHONPATH=/home/jordi/cvs/gnome/2.12/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/../../../../../www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes; \ `which xml2po` -e -p bg.po ${d}release-notes.xml > release-notes.xml)05:34
jordi(cd bg/ && \ export PYTHONPATH=/home/jordi/cvs/gnome/2.12/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/../../../../../www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes; \ `which xml2po` -e -p bg.po ${d}rni18n.xml > rni18n.xml)05:35
jordiand then once for the rest of files.05:35
jordiall of those calls use -e05:35
mdkeyeah05:35
mdkejordi, my question?05:36
mdkejordi, is it correct to say that if there are a number of entities in the pot file which have the same string, they will only get translated once in rosetta?05:36
jordimdke: correct05:36
jordithey should and can only appear once in the pot file: check that if you want05:36
mdkewhat about if it appears in a different package?05:36
mdkeso if two documents use the same entity05:37
jordiin a pot or po file, if you get a duplicate msgid gettext errors out and you're in trouble.05:37
jordimdke: documents as in different xml files for the same doc, or two documents different as the "ubuntufaq" and "wildflowersintexas"? :)05:38
mdkethe latter05:38
jordiif the latter, Rosetta will suggest that the string was translated in some other place, but currently I don't think it'll automatically apply it05:38
mdkethat is fine05:38
mdkeok i think we should go with -e then05:38
jordithat will happen when they work on the translation memory features, they have the base in rosetta, but no UI to use it yet.05:39
jordigood05:39
mdkeok i'll wait for sean to merge his xinclude improvements, then make the pot and upload it, and cross fingers05:42
jordimdke: good luck. You know where I am.05:42
jordiAnd remember: switching to the "cool" build-sys is easy. I still think it'd be nice to try to get it accepted.:)05:43
jsgotangcomy brain hurts05:49
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jsgotangcooh well good night i have a long day ahead..05:57
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mpthttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam%2e?action=show&redirect=AboutTheUbuntuCoreDocumentationProject06:59
mdke?07:07
jjesseno clue what that is supposed to be07:07
mdkeah i see your point07:07
mdkeodd07:07
mdkeah, it's the full stop07:09
mdkempt, should be fixed now, nice spot07:10
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froudmdke: you ok now07:45
mdkeyeah i think we are good to go now07:48
mdkethe new pot is enormous but still07:48
mdkeeverything will get translated07:48
froudwell its is up to you, I would go with seperate pot files for sure07:48
froudbut that is just me, you go fella07:49
mdkeok07:49
mdkethanks for your help07:49
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mdkefroud, one thing07:49
froudnp07:49
froudyah07:49
mdkefroud, the faqguide was not valid xml before your xinclude changes?07:49
froudnot for what you needed07:49
mdkefroud, how come the validate script didn't pick it up?07:50
mdkeit doesn't follow entities right?07:50
froudthe method of using external entities means that youcannot have a doctype decl on each of the xml instance except the first07:50
mdkeright07:50
rado_ukHi How can I connect to AOL via Ubuntu 5.0407:50
froudTherefore gnome doc utils sees all files except the first as invalid07:51
mdkerado_uk, try #ubuntu07:51
mdkeor ring up AOL07:51
mdkefroud, I see07:51
mdkethanks07:51
rado_ukok cheers07:52
froudnp, remember I may be busy but if you are ever really stuck just shout and shall appear07:52
mdkefroud, ok thank you07:52
=== froud is a bit pissed bout the kubuntu purge from faq
mdkeyeah i know07:52
=== froud thinks the devs just copped out
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=== mdke shakes his head
mdkefroud, you have got the kfaqguide now right?07:53
mdkethe faqguide for kubuntu was nowhere near ready so it made sense to purge it07:53
froudunfortunately, yes07:53
froudhuh, bollocks07:53
froudfaq guide was a downstream to kfaq07:53
froudopps upsteam07:54
mdkeyes i understand that07:54
froudeach time you chaps did something to gfaq, the kfaq got betta07:54
mdkegfaq was finished in time for string freeze, more or less07:54
mdkerob said that the kfaq was not ready to be released07:54
froudbut no point k chaps doing all sorts of work when everyone at gnome had not stabled the gfaq07:55
froudmdke: k chaps not crital bout string07:55
mdkefroud, then you should have clarified the freeze with mdz07:55
mdkea freeze is a freeze07:55
froudit would have been better if ppl asked me to impliment a 2 step solution07:55
mdkeanyway, I can't discuss this right now07:55
mdkewe'll talk about it another time07:56
froudmdke: freeze is freeze for you at gnome/ubuntu but way it is etup for kubuntu, we can go in at any time07:56
mdketake that up with mdz07:56
froudno need riddle controls that07:56
mdkeas I said, I can't discuss this right now07:57
mdkeanother time07:57
=== froud hugs Riddell
froudyah yah oneday07:57
froudbye07:57
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highvoltagewho is froud?08:17
mdkefroud is Sean08:17
highvoltageah. so he's froud and venda? strange.08:18
mdkemainly froud08:18
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