[12:23] <froud> can anyone clue me on the revision number before kubuntu profiling was removed?
[12:27] <froud> 1756?
[01:03] <froud> FAQ GUIDE FORK @ r 1757   http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-September/003550.html
[01:19] <trickie> hello all
[01:20] <trickie> i haven't been in here since the Hoary release
[01:20] <trickie> just wanted to say breezy looks cool
[01:20] <trickie> and the doc team seems to be doing some good work
[01:20] <trickie> congrats! 
[01:27] <Burgundavia> hey trickie, long time no see
[02:09] <trickie> Burgundavia, yeah good to be back
[02:09] <trickie> Burgundavia, i have some more free time again now, so i am tossing up whether to get back into the doc team
[02:10] <Burgundavia> trickie, you should, it is good for the sole
[02:11] <Burgundavia> or is it the soul?
[02:11] <trickie> Burgundavia, he he yes it is... i was bummed that i missed the whole breezy cycle... been watching from a distance
[02:36] <jsgotangco> morning
[03:28] <jsgotangco> hey rob^
[04:58] <carthik> Hi folks -- there was a guy at #ubuntu who installed breezy by accident -- since the download page lists breezy first.
[04:58] <carthik> Shouldnt the stable version be right on top? 
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> yes it should
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> I thought that had been fixed
[05:15] <HrdwrBoB> it came up yesterday
[05:17] <carthik> I stopped short of editing it since i wasn't sure i should do it without discussion - unsure of policies, in other words. Thanks, HrdwrBoB 
[08:32] <rob^> hi..
[08:32] <Madpilot> hi rob^
[08:32] <rob^> Madpilot hi
[08:36] <robitaille> Madpilot, so how was your brother talk?
[08:37] <robitaille> I didn't manage to make it to campus tonight...
[08:44] <Madpilot> robitaille: it went well, he had good slides and gave a pretty good talk
[08:44] <Madpilot> two talks actually, one about Ubuntu & the 2nd shorter one about Google SoC
[08:49] <Burgundavia> rob^, should I be hacking the QT in the branch or the trunk?
[08:50] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  sorry about missing your talk...it was a crazy night at home :(
[08:51] <Burgundavia> robitaille, np
[08:52] <Burgundavia> robitaille, I am sure I will give more
[08:52] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: you going to release the slides you used? CC-BY-SA and stick them up somewhere for the rest of the community to use?
[08:52] <Burgundavia> guess I should
[08:53] <Madpilot> I've got webspace if you need it - too back Ubuntu's FTP support bites so much...
[08:54] <Burgundavia> have we sorted out that is was not Ace of Space?
[08:55] <Madpilot> I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'll file a help ticket for more info on assigning FTP accounts...
[08:55] <Madpilot> you could always upload it to the U wiki as an attachement
[08:55] <rob^> Burgundavia, I would say you would be safe with the trunk, it can be copied to the branch when you are ready to release it
[08:55] <rob^> just let jbailey know what the go is
[08:56] <Burgundavia> rob^, ok
[08:57] <rob^> I have to get ready for night shift :( catch you all later
[09:16] <Burgundavia> thunderbird is even stupider. I learned today that it keeps all of its email in memory when running
[09:17] <Madpilot> so what happens to your email if your system shuts down unexpectedly? (power failure or something?)
[09:19] <rob^> have you tried sylpheed-claws?
[09:19] <robitaille> there is a copy of disk, hopefully relatively well insynch.  But  it's a lot faster to deal with large indexes if its all in memory.
[09:19] <Burgundavia> it is kept on disk, just kept in memory for searching purposes
[09:19] <rob^> lightweight, gtk+ nice email client
[09:20] <Madpilot> ah, OK. sounds like a good way to clog your RAM/swap, in any case...
[09:22] <robitaille> rob^,  never try  sylpheed-claws;  between tries at evolution/thunderbird evety fewmonths, I usually fall back at mutt for something simple
[09:27] <rob^> its very good, I've used it on a few low spec machines
[09:28] <robitaille> the sales pitch on its web site is pretty good.  
[10:20] <mdke> hi all
[10:20] <Burgundavia> salut mdke 
[10:20] <Burgundavia> hey froud, long time no see
[10:21] <mdke> hi Burgundavia, froud 
[10:21] <Burgundavia> mdke, the QT hacking I am going to do tomorrow. Breezy branch or trunk?
[10:22] <mdke> i would agree with rob
[10:22] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:22] <mdke> it's up to you as long as you know jbailey know if you want the doc to go into breezy
[10:22] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:22] <mdke> we have a quite large problem with the faqguide pot :/
[10:23] <Burgundavia> what sort of issues?
[10:23] <froud> mdke: what problem
[10:24] <mdke> i'm trying to track it down
[10:24] <mdke> i'm not sure if there is a problem with the pot or with rosetta
[10:26] <mdke> i can't see anything wrong with the pot
[10:26] <mdke> so maybe it is rosetta
[10:26] <froud> what is the complaint?
[10:26] <mdke> i have to show it to you
[10:27] <mdke> but launchpad is offline right now
[10:27] <froud> Hmm ok
[10:27] <froud> "NEVER come up with a product and then try to find a market. Ever."
[10:27] <froud> Instead of :
[10:27] <froud> Sell your market what they want to buy.
[10:30] <froud> whew, why was the breezy branch made on the whole repos
[10:30] <froud> is edubuntu going as a package
[10:31] <froud> I know kubuntu is a package by is not introduced to the distro in the same way as ubuntu-docs
[10:31] <froud> seems overkill to svn copy * of trunk, no?
[10:32] <mdke> eh?
[10:32] <froud> wagga wagga why have edu and kub in ubu breezy branch, just makes to many leaves for the branch
[10:33] <froud> b btr 2 svn cp what ubu needs to breezy branch, no?
[10:33] <mdke> ok i think i've understood you
[10:33] <mdke> but talking in full sentences would really help
[10:34] <mdke> yes, jbailey copied the whole of trunk
[10:34] <mdke> i suppose he will cut out what he doesn't need eventually
[10:34] <froud> yah, but when :-)
[10:34] <mdke> i don't know
[10:34] <mdke> why?
[10:34] <froud> better do do it at start, you see even tough you will prune and clean, you dont reallydelete
[10:35] <froud> you just remove from head :-)
[10:35] <froud> making log and scroll back big
[10:35] <froud> not a problem, just not optimal on server usage or disk space :-)
[10:36] <froud> also I see changes in branches/breezy we will want those in trunk sometime
[10:36] <froud> is somebody following the branch and trunk and making sure they can merge branches back to trunk later
[10:37] <froud> would be shame to have limux in trunk breezy + 1 :-)
[10:38] <mdke> yes
[10:38] <mdke> of course that will be done
[10:39] <froud> ok, just making sure
[10:39] <froud> :-)
[10:40] <froud> not sure if people r aware of issues like this, so better to say something than shutup and then have the problem to manage later ;-)
[10:41] <mdke> rebooting
[10:47] <mdke> gonna try recreating the pot with the gnome-doc-utils from breezy
[10:47] <mdke> perhaps this issue is caused by the version in hoary
[10:47] <froud> Uhm you should be using KDESDK
[10:48] <mdke> interesting use of the phrase "you should be"
[10:48] <froud> xml2pot from kde sdk is what we used last time
[10:48] <froud> we had problems with gdoc utils
[10:48] <mdke> yeah I know
[10:49] <mdke> this time we went with gnome-doc-utils
[10:49] <froud> oh well, up to you, whatever works
[10:49] <mdke> brb
[10:49] <froud> bitch the pdf transform for FAQ is not able to do its thang due to duplicate id values
[10:50] <froud> but doc is valid, IOW there are no dupes. Now where is the problem
[10:55] <mdke> no idea
[11:00] <_froud_> "There is a connection you feel to the paper and the letters as they press down in a clickety clack chorus that instantly makes you feel alive, like a writer creating a literary classic like the immortal's, Hemingway, Steinbeck, and Faulkner.
[11:00] <_froud_> 
[11:00] <_froud_> Their thoughts and ideas will live forever because they created beautiful works that touched the hearts and minds of generations. 
[11:00] <_froud_> Sure, these days everyone has a computer with all the bells and whistles, but if you really want to connect with your 'inner muse' you'll discover the soul of the writer that can only be found when you can let your fingers dance across the keys of a genuine, honest-to-goodness-just-like-the-good-old -days-typewriter.
[11:09] <mdke> _froud_, what problems did you have with gnome-doc-utils?
[11:10] <mdke> froud, ^
[11:10] <froud> as I recall the pot files had poor syntax
[11:11] <froud> how does the new version look, better?
[11:11] <mdke> than what?
[11:11] <froud> than the first 
[11:11] <mdke> sorry I don't understand the question
[11:11] <froud> previous pot file make by prev doc utils
[11:11] <mdke> ah
[11:11] <mdke> the same
[11:12] <froud> and when you use xml2pot from kde?
[11:12] <mdke> i haven't got it
[11:13] <mdke> it requires me to install 99 packages
[11:13] <froud> jahmaaan
[11:40] <dholbach> hi
[11:41] <mdke> hiya
[12:24] <klepas> moin
[12:25] <mdke> hiya
[12:26] <klepas> don't recall meeting you afore
[12:26] <klepas> so, greetings. :-)
[12:28] <mdke> hello :)
[12:28] <mdke> name is matt
[12:28] <klepas> name is Pascal
[12:28] <mdke> welcome to the docteam
[12:28] <klepas> thanks
[12:28] <klepas> I pop in here every-so-often
[12:28] <klepas> :-)
[12:28] <klepas> eventually i intend to help out
[12:31] <klepas> i reckon i could learn with saying 'no' to a lot of requests made to me.
[12:31] <klepas> would cut down on the workload... :-)
[12:32] <mdke> yeah me too
[12:34] <klepas> You are in a similar strife, eh?
[12:34] <mdke> yep
[12:35] <klepas> *Chuckles*
[03:51] <mdke> what the hell is sean doing
[04:10] <jjesse> his own thing
[04:11] <mdke> indeed
[04:14] <mdke> he exasperates me
[04:17] <highvoltage> mdke: you're not the first who have said that :)
[04:21] <mdke> i'm sure
[04:35] <jsgotangco> hi all
[04:39] <jsgotangco> mdke: more pot bugs huh
[04:39] <mdke> yes
[04:40] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[04:41] <mdke> i think we have them licked, but uploading a new pot to rosetta may wipe out a lot of translations, I'm not sure
[04:42] <mdke> sean has been playing around with things but has not told us what he is doing, which is annoying
[04:42] <mdke> hopefully in the end we will figure something out
[04:42] <jsgotangco> it really annoys me
[04:43] <jsgotangco> i just came from LinuxWorld with no net access all day so i am now catching up atm
[04:43] <jsgotangco> hopefully tommorow i get wifi over there
[04:43] <mdke> :)
[04:43] <jsgotangco> mdke: a new pot will destroy all existing work right
[04:44] <mdke> some things should get merged
[04:44] <mdke> i'm not 100% sure how that is done tho
[04:45] <mdke> i'm hoping to ask jordi
[04:45] <mdke> but in any case, I don't really see how it can be avoided
[04:45] <mdke> we _have_ to upload a new pot
[04:46] <jsgotangco> hrmmm is there a way to test the pot like validating it before sending it to rosetta?
[04:46] <mdke> yes, sean in his last email suggested there was
[04:46] <mdke> but he didn't say how
[04:47] <mdke> i've asked in my last email
[04:47] <jsgotangco> grrr it seems he is doing it on purpose to show how weak we are in some areas
[04:47] <mdke> yes
[04:48] <jsgotangco> what a git
[04:48] <mdke> i don't mind, but what annoys me is that he does things without saying what he is doing
[04:48] <mdke> that is unprofessional
[04:48] <mdke> especially where it involves doing the opposite of what was discussed
[04:50] <jsgotangco> i'd like to kick him off the list but that is not the proper way
[04:50] <mdke> hmm
[04:51] <mdke> if he becomes more disruptive, removing svn access would be a possibility I suppose, if discussed in a team meeting and/or CC
[04:51] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:52] <jsgotangco> me an jbailey are discussing about brainstorming after release for UBZ
[04:52] <jsgotangco> we'll sort this out
[04:52] <mdke> good
[04:53] <mdke> we need a stable working methodology otherwise each release cycle will be mayhem
[04:53] <jsgotangco> yup
[04:54] <jsgotangco> sorry mdke i can't help much on this regard, pots are still a mystery to me
[04:54] <mdke> np
[04:55] <mdke> hmm
[04:56] <jsgotangco> is dapper drake really the name?
[04:56] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[04:56] <jsgotangco> i just read the email
[04:57] <mdke> yes
[04:58] <jjesse> yup it is
[05:00] <jsgotangco> wtf is sean even responding in english
[05:01] <jjesse> grin no english that i understand
[05:05] <mdke> sort of stream of consciousness
[05:05] <mdke> anyway, we are getting somewhere
[05:16] <mdke> jordi says that the existing translations will be kept if the strings are identical
[05:16] <mdke> so we should consider uploading a new pot
[05:17] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:17] <jsgotangco> do you have a new pot already?
[05:17] <mdke> yes
[05:17] <mdke> made from the faqguide from branches/breezy
[05:17] <jsgotangco> nice
[05:17] <jsgotangco> it will probably work
[05:18] <mdke> it will work but we will get one single file out of the translations (e.g. faqguide.tl.xml)
[05:18] <jsgotangco> yuck that will take forever to load in yelp
[05:18] <jsgotangco> but then if it works...
[05:19] <mdke> i'm not sure
[05:21] <jsgotangco> mmm they seem to be preparing BOFs now for ubz
[05:26] <jsgotangco> hey jordi
[05:27] <jordi> hi guys
[05:27] <mdke> hiya
[05:27] <mdke> my head is spinning a bit right now
[05:28] <jordi> hehe
[05:28] <jordi> don't worry. You're on track :)
[05:28] <jordi> mdke: do you have a g-d-u makefile setup now?
[05:28] <mdke> nope
[05:28] <mdke> not much chance that we can do that
[05:28] <mdke> maybe for breezy+1
[05:29] <jordi> with that in place (as directed in the gnome wiki), this is a piece of cake provided your files are using xinclude correcty.
[05:29] <jordi> really?
[05:29] <jordi> it'd only be a change to the build system, with quite some benefits i guess
[05:29] <mdke> i don't have the time to investigate that now...
[05:29] <jordi> I can help.
[05:29] <mdke> also it would be a very drastic change at late notice
[05:30] <jordi> re: that, I don't know the freeze policy so I don't have an opinion.
[05:30] <mdke> i think we should stick to doing the pot manually for now
[05:32] <jordi> ok.
[05:32] <mdke> anyhow we have xincludes working properly, so the next question is, should we use -e to resolve entities
[05:32] <mdke> sean says no
[05:32] <mdke> danilo says yes
[05:32] <jordi> I erally recommend moving to the standard make setup, but it's too late, it's too late.
[05:32] <jordi> gnome uses -e
[05:32] <jordi> danilo wrote the tool, in part.
[05:33] <jordi> so you decide :P
[05:33] <mdke> heh
[05:33] <jsgotangco> ho ho
[05:33] <jordi> if ! test -d bg/; then mkdir bg/; fi
[05:33] <jordi> if test -f "C/release-notes.xml"; then d="../"; else d=".././"; fi; \
[05:33] <jordi> if ! test -f bg/bg.po; then \
[05:33] <jordi>   (cd bg/ && \
[05:33] <jordi>     `which xml2po` -e ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/rni18n.xml ${d}C/rndocs.xml ${d}C/rninstallation.xml ${d}C/rnusers.xml ${d}C/rnadmins.xml ${d}C/rndevelopers.xml > bg.po); \
[05:33] <mdke> jordi, is it correct to say that if there are a number of entities in the pot file which have the same string, they will only get translated once in rosetta?
[05:33] <jordi> else \
[05:33] <jordi>   (cd bg/ && \
[05:33] <jordi>     `which xml2po` -e -u bg ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/rni18n.xml ${d}C/rndocs.xml ${d}C/rninstallation.xml ${d}C/rnusers.xml ${d}C/rnadmins.xml ${d}C/rndevelopers.xml); \
[05:33] <jordi> fi
[05:33] <jordi> oops, big paste, sorry.
[05:34] <jordi> this is a snippet of the gnome build
[05:34] <jordi> then it does
[05:34] <jordi> if test -f "C/release-notes.xml"; then d="../C/"; else d=".././C/"; fi; \
[05:34] <jordi> (cd bg/ && \ export PYTHONPATH=/home/jordi/cvs/gnome/2.12/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/../../../../../www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes; \ `which xml2po` -e -p bg.po ${d}release-notes.xml > release-notes.xml)
[05:35] <jordi> (cd bg/ && \ export PYTHONPATH=/home/jordi/cvs/gnome/2.12/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/../../../../../www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes; \ `which xml2po` -e -p bg.po ${d}rni18n.xml > rni18n.xml)
[05:35] <jordi> and then once for the rest of files.
[05:35] <jordi> all of those calls use -e
[05:35] <mdke> yeah
[05:36] <mdke> jordi, my question?
[05:36] <mdke> jordi, is it correct to say that if there are a number of entities in the pot file which have the same string, they will only get translated once in rosetta?
[05:36] <jordi> mdke: correct
[05:36] <jordi> they should and can only appear once in the pot file: check that if you want
[05:36] <mdke> what about if it appears in a different package?
[05:37] <mdke> so if two documents use the same entity
[05:37] <jordi> in a pot or po file, if you get a duplicate msgid gettext errors out and you're in trouble.
[05:38] <jordi> mdke: documents as in different xml files for the same doc, or two documents different as the "ubuntufaq" and "wildflowersintexas"? :)
[05:38] <mdke> the latter
[05:38] <jordi> if the latter, Rosetta will suggest that the string was translated in some other place, but currently I don't think it'll automatically apply it
[05:38] <mdke> that is fine
[05:38] <mdke> ok i think we should go with -e then
[05:39] <jordi> that will happen when they work on the translation memory features, they have the base in rosetta, but no UI to use it yet.
[05:39] <jordi> good
[05:42] <mdke> ok i'll wait for sean to merge his xinclude improvements, then make the pot and upload it, and cross fingers
[05:42] <jordi> mdke: good luck. You know where I am.
[05:43] <jordi> And remember: switching to the "cool" build-sys is easy. I still think it'd be nice to try to get it accepted.:)
[05:49] <jsgotangco> my brain hurts
[05:57] <jsgotangco> oh well good night i have a long day ahead..
[06:59] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam%2e?action=show&redirect=AboutTheUbuntuCoreDocumentationProject
[07:07] <mdke> ?
[07:07] <jjesse> no clue what that is supposed to be
[07:07] <mdke> ah i see your point
[07:07] <mdke> odd
[07:09] <mdke> ah, it's the full stop
[07:10] <mdke> mpt, should be fixed now, nice spot
[07:45] <froud> mdke: you ok now
[07:48] <mdke> yeah i think we are good to go now
[07:48] <mdke> the new pot is enormous but still
[07:48] <mdke> everything will get translated
[07:48] <froud> well its is up to you, I would go with seperate pot files for sure
[07:49] <froud> but that is just me, you go fella
[07:49] <mdke> ok
[07:49] <mdke> thanks for your help
[07:49] <mdke> froud, one thing
[07:49] <froud> np
[07:49] <froud> yah
[07:49] <mdke> froud, the faqguide was not valid xml before your xinclude changes?
[07:49] <froud> not for what you needed
[07:50] <mdke> froud, how come the validate script didn't pick it up?
[07:50] <mdke> it doesn't follow entities right?
[07:50] <froud> the method of using external entities means that youcannot have a doctype decl on each of the xml instance except the first
[07:50] <mdke> right
[07:50] <rado_uk> Hi How can I connect to AOL via Ubuntu 5.04
[07:51] <froud> Therefore gnome doc utils sees all files except the first as invalid
[07:51] <mdke> rado_uk, try #ubuntu
[07:51] <mdke> or ring up AOL
[07:51] <mdke> froud, I see
[07:51] <mdke> thanks
[07:52] <rado_uk> ok cheers
[07:52] <froud> np, remember I may be busy but if you are ever really stuck just shout and shall appear
[07:52] <mdke> froud, ok thank you
[07:52] <mdke> yeah i know
[07:53] <mdke> froud, you have got the kfaqguide now right?
[07:53] <mdke> the faqguide for kubuntu was nowhere near ready so it made sense to purge it
[07:53] <froud> unfortunately, yes
[07:53] <froud> huh, bollocks
[07:53] <froud> faq guide was a downstream to kfaq
[07:54] <froud> opps upsteam
[07:54] <mdke> yes i understand that
[07:54] <froud> each time you chaps did something to gfaq, the kfaq got betta
[07:54] <mdke> gfaq was finished in time for string freeze, more or less
[07:54] <mdke> rob said that the kfaq was not ready to be released
[07:55] <froud> but no point k chaps doing all sorts of work when everyone at gnome had not stabled the gfaq
[07:55] <froud> mdke: k chaps not crital bout string
[07:55] <mdke> froud, then you should have clarified the freeze with mdz
[07:55] <mdke> a freeze is a freeze
[07:55] <froud> it would have been better if ppl asked me to impliment a 2 step solution
[07:55] <mdke> anyway, I can't discuss this right now
[07:56] <mdke> we'll talk about it another time
[07:56] <froud> mdke: freeze is freeze for you at gnome/ubuntu but way it is etup for kubuntu, we can go in at any time
[07:56] <mdke> take that up with mdz
[07:56] <froud> no need riddle controls that
[07:57] <mdke> as I said, I can't discuss this right now
[07:57] <mdke> another time
[07:57] <froud> yah yah oneday
[07:57] <froud> bye
[08:17] <highvoltage> who is froud?
[08:17] <mdke> froud is Sean
[08:18] <highvoltage> ah. so he's froud and venda? strange.
[08:18] <mdke> mainly froud