[12:24] <klepas> moin
[12:30] <EricV> Hello !
[12:30] <klepas> ni hao
[12:31] <klepas> in other word, hi. :-)
[12:31] <EricV> my chinese isnt very good ;) thanks !
[12:32] <EricV> you have a french name with an australian host, am i wrong ?
[12:34] <klepas> yep
[12:35] <klepas> I'm German, living in Aussie land (Canberra to be precise), got a French name, can speak a wee bit of Chinese and use Linux.
[12:35] <klepas> how's that mate?
[12:37] <EricV> :D
[12:37] <klepas> How about you?
[12:42] <EricV> I'have a french name, living near Paris ! I have to keep learning German ! And i use Hoary & Windows... I'm here to see what they are to say about Edubuntu, because i work for a humanitarian association, and we will bring computers to African schools. Maybe we will install edubuntu for them, because we aren't really happy of Windows...
[12:44] <EricV> And you what do you in Canberra ? do you work for ubuntu ?
[12:46] <klepas> Not as of yet
[12:47] <klepas> But I certainly am interested in offering my skills to the rather large and awesome repetoire of skills and abilities available within the Ubuntu community
[12:47] <klepas> :-)
[12:48] <klepas> Other than that, I've only got one accepted piece of work so far - a splash screen for JuK 2.3 which will be released with KDE 3.5 and maybe 4
[12:48] <klepas> and I do a lot of other art for myself and anyone else who happens to like it :-)
[12:49] <klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/about and http://wombat.nuxified.com/work
[12:49] <klepas> brb
[12:50] <klepas> back
[12:53] <EricV> ('m reading your websites)
[12:54] <klepas> :-) thank you
[12:56] <EricV> your splash screen for gimp is nice! do u use gimp for creating all your picts ?
[12:59] <klepas> yes
[12:59] <klepas> The GIMP and sometimes a little Inkscape
[12:59] <klepas> but otherwise, I am all for using open source apps
[01:01] <klepas> :-)
[01:01] <EricV> as powerful as apps like Photoshop ?
[01:02] <ogra> klepas, do you know art.ubuntu.com ? 
[01:02] <klepas> yes
[01:02] <klepas> I co-admin that :-)
[01:02] <ogra> fine :)
[01:02] <klepas> that I suppose is my only little contribution so far.
[01:02] <klepas> :-)
[01:04] <EricV> will you add new themes, soonly ?
[01:04] <klepas> *checks
[01:04] <EricV> (that's empty for the moment...)
[01:05] <klepas> one item
[01:05] <EricV> well that's a very new web site, i understand why it's not full...
[01:05] <klepas> Breezy Login Mockup 01  gdm_greeter
[01:05] <klepas> yea
[01:05] <klepas> and it is still missing a lot of functionality
[01:05] <EricV> anyway there are some nice background
[01:06] <klepas> but, alas I look forward to what it could mean!
[01:06] <klepas> i've done this one: http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/6
[01:06] <klepas> :)
[01:07] <klepas> brb - need to take out the trash
[01:07] <EricV> i've seen it on your blog !
[01:08] <klepas> :-)
[01:09] <EricV> well i'll be back in 40minutes
[01:15] <JaneW> I can't u/l to http://art.ubuntu.com/ anymore... where's u/l link gone?
[01:26] <ogra> JaneW, probably depending on the launchpad maintenance ? or is that over already ?
[01:26] <JaneW> it's over... 
[01:26] <ogra> i.e. no login, no upload...
[01:27] <ogra> ah, ok
[01:27] <JaneW> I can login, but there's no link (anymore) which says upload a new wallpaper...
[01:27] <ogra> hmm, and hno is on holiday
[01:28] <JaneW> nod
[01:28] <JaneW> I am wondering if anyone else can u/l
[01:28] <JaneW> Javacide added some yesterday...
[01:28] <klepas> W00t!
[01:28] <klepas> Ubuntu 6.04 ~ will be named Dapper Drake
[01:28] <klepas> awesome
[01:29] <JaneW> ahhh, I found something... ogra I think I worked it out, it's changed.
[01:29] <JaneW> yes
[01:29] <ogra> :)
[01:29] <JaneW> sounds a bit mandrakey
[01:29] <JaneW> ;P
[01:29] <ogra> heh
[01:30] <JaneW> I was expecting it to be Daper Dassie
[01:30] <klepas> hehe
[01:30] <klepas> Dassie souns nicer, imho
[01:30] <JaneW> but Dapper Drake has a nice ring to it.
[01:30] <JaneW> dassie is also native to SA
[01:30] <klepas> yea
[01:31] <klepas> both dapper and drake have nice meanings and work well together
[01:37] <spacey> what does Dapper mean?
[01:37] <spacey> sounds like a dutch word :)
[01:37] <Treenaks> spacey: dict ;)
[01:38] <spacey> oh its the same as in dutch
[01:38] <Treenaks> spacey: it is?
[01:38] <klepas> dapper means: Little and active; spruce; trim; smart; neat in dress or
[01:38] <klepas>    appearance; lively.
[01:38] <spacey> brave/dapper
[01:38] <JaneW> means brave etc
[01:39] <klepas> :-)
[01:40] <klepas> and a drake is the male of the duck kind
[01:40] <spacey> dappere eend :o)
[01:41] <Treenaks> spacey: woerd 
[01:41] <Treenaks> spacey: (male duck :))
[01:42] <spacey> :p
[01:42] <JaneW> Dapper:
[01:42] <JaneW>    1.
[01:42] <JaneW>          1. Neatly dressed; trim.
[01:42] <JaneW>          2. Very stylish in dress.
[01:42] <JaneW>    2. Lively and alert.
[01:42] <JaneW> [Middle English daper, elegant, probably from Middle Dutch dapper, quick, strong.] 
[01:54] <EricV> (re gentlemen)
[01:58] <JaneW> **REMINDER** Edubuntu meeting her in 2 mins
[01:59] <ogra> her ? 
[01:59] <ogra> whom ? 
[01:59] <ogra> does she look good ?
[01:59] <ogra> :)
[02:00] <Mithrandir> ogra: I thought you already had a "her"? :-)
[02:00] <ogra> i do... i was just courious :)
[02:00] <EricV> herE, i suppose...
[02:01] <JaneW> no it's ME
[02:01] <EricV> (i'm disapointed too..)
[02:01] <JaneW> TA DA!
[02:01] <EricV> ;)
[02:01] <ogra> ok, so she looks good ;)
[02:01] <JaneW> :P
[02:02] <jelkner> good morning all!
[02:02] <JaneW> ok I am ready
[02:02] <spacey> ok:)
[02:02] <JaneW> hi jelkner 
[02:02] <JaneW> where's flint?
[02:03] <jelkner> JaneW: hi, i only have 10 minutes before my students arrive
[02:03] <JaneW> oh right he;s moving isn't he?
[02:03] <jelkner> i can't speak for flint
[02:03] <JaneW> jelkner: well then SHOOT
[02:03] <jelkner> is there any way to narrow down which days are edubutu related at ubuntu below zero?
[02:04] <jelkner> btw. Edubuntu rocks!
[02:04] <JaneW> jelkner: I discussed this with mdz last night
[02:04] <JaneW> jelkner: RAD!
[02:04] <jelkner> and...?
[02:04] <ogra> yay jelkner, thanks ;)
[02:04] <JaneW> I was hoping we could plan as per my mail to you yesterday...
[02:04] <jelkner> but that is a whole week
[02:05] <JaneW> jelkner: I still think we can actually, but mdz doesn't want us to strictly limit ourselves to that...
[02:05] <JaneW> ok so the distro team is busy from Mon 31 Oct to Sat 6 Nov...
[02:05] <ogra> we'll have a dedicated edubuntu summit again later i guess
[02:05] <jelkner> wait, maybe i didn't see your mail from yesterday...
[02:05] <JaneW> The LTSP crew arrive on Thu 3 Nov
[02:06] <jelkner> what should i do?
[02:06] <JaneW> so I am thinking we should focus most of our edubuntu sessions in the overlap
[02:06] <JaneW> Thurs- Sat
[02:06] <ogra> the dostro team stays until 7th, that makes 4 days
[02:06] <ogra> distro even
[02:06] <JaneW> we may do some prelim talks in the days before that, but the meat will be near the end of the week, and in collaboration with the LTSP guys...
[02:06] <JaneW> does everyone agree?
[02:07] <JaneW> ogra: but so far the 7th is an 'off' day... we don;t want to take that away already!
[02:07] <Treenaks> (note: Sunday 6th is a day off now)
[02:07] <jelkner> can i do nov. 1 to 6 then?
[02:07] <ogra> JaneW, i thik all we do there will be very ltsp specific, since we'll have our normal edubuntu summit too 
[02:07] <JaneW> ogra: sides some of us will be there close to 3 weeks....
[02:07] <Treenaks> JaneW: the 8th is the off day?
[02:07] <Treenaks> JaneW: uh, 7th?
[02:07] <JaneW> sorry I am confussed re dates and days... Sun 6th is the day off
[02:08] <JaneW> thanks Treenaks 
[02:08] <ogra> JaneW, so app selection etc will happen on the edubuntu summit...
[02:08] <JaneW> jelkner: can you be there in that time?
[02:08] <ogra> but we can collect input in montreal indeed
[02:08] <JaneW> jelkner: 1-6th?
[02:08] <jelkner> JaneW: i can attend any 2 to 3 weekdays plus a weekend
[02:09] <jelkner> i just need to know now so i can apply for leave
[02:09] <JaneW> jelkner: since ogra and I have other comitments (Ubuntu, LP, scheduling etc etc) would you be willing to help us to lead, as you did so ably at UDU?
[02:09] <jelkner> sure
[02:09] <JaneW> cool
[02:09] <jelkner> just tell me the days, and i'm there
[02:09] <JaneW> jelkner: you can beat the content filtering drum again.... ;)
[02:10] <jelkner> i will!
[02:10] <JaneW> mdz reckons we have enough for a full edubuntu track...
[02:10] <jelkner> there are a lot of issues
[02:10] <jelkner> local access to usb devices
[02:10] <JaneW> so if I can get us a dedicated room (not sure what infrastructure we have yet), we can go made and schedule accordingly...
[02:10] <jelkner> sound
[02:10] <jelkner> etc.
[02:10] <ogra> jelkner, sound out of the box ;)
[02:10] <JaneW> s/made/mad
[02:10] <JaneW> java...
[02:11] <ogra> JaneW, we cant ship java
[02:11] <ogra> JaneW, we have it in multiverse, thats enough
[02:11] <jelkner> we can ship gnu java
[02:11] <JaneW> just thinking of the norwegian flash/java requirement for exams...
[02:11] <jelkner> and it is getting better all the time
[02:11] <ogra> jelkner, we do already... gcj is in
[02:11] <JaneW> anyway shall I try to get us a dedicated room?
[02:11] <jelkner> ogra: yes, i know
[02:12] <ogra> jelkner, thats why we cant ship java ;)
[02:12] <JaneW> I have created a wiki page to start listing BOF topics...
[02:12] <JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
[02:12] <ogra> JaneW, good idea
[02:12] <JaneW> for edubuntu specifics...
[02:12] <ogra> (the room)
[02:12] <jelkner> JaneW: i still need a final decision on days
[02:12] <JaneW> here's another one, for general Ubuntu BOFs
[02:12] <JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
[02:12] <jelkner> you pick em, and i'll be there
[02:12] <jelkner> but i need to know
[02:12] <jelkner> now..
[02:13] <jelkner> and i need to go in 4 minutes...
[02:13] <JaneW> Well if we get our own room, and a complete edubuntu track, we can start on the Monday 31 Oct and end on Saturday 5 Nov
[02:13] <JaneW> not sure how wall to wall we'll be though
[02:13] <JaneW> we really need that BOF list, start filling that
[02:14] <JaneW> if you can be there at least Wed-Sat it would be great
[02:14] <JaneW> more would be a bonus...
[02:14] <JaneW> how does that sound?
[02:14] <ajmitch> JaneW: ah, the BOFs page is up for suggestions (for general ubuntu work)?
[02:14] <jelkner> more?
[02:14] <jelkner> i'm trying to minimize the number of days i'm away from students
[02:14] <jelkner> i don't mind working on sunday
[02:14] <JaneW> ajmitch: yes.
[02:14] <jelkner> that is better for me
[02:15] <jelkner> but i'd like to limit my weekdays to 3
[02:15] <JaneW> jelkner: yes but it's scheduled as an off/recreational day for everybody...
[02:15] <jelkner> ok
[02:15] <ogra> but please note while filling that we'll have an additional edubutnu summit thats less technical, we should concentrate onthe technical stuff at UBZ
[02:15] <ogra> hey li
[02:15] <ogra> flint1, even
[02:15] <JaneW> ogra: is another edubunut summit confirmed yet?
[02:15] <JaneW> hi flint1 
[02:15] <flint1> hey ollie, sorry I am late...
[02:15] <jelkner> so perhaps you don't need me for all those days
[02:16] <flint1> Hi there jane...
[02:16] <jelkner> i gotta run
[02:16] <jelkner> let's follow up by email
[02:16] <jelkner> thanks!
[02:16] <ogra> JaneW, we committed to have one every 6 months, i dont know if sabdfl's commitment still stands
[02:16] <flint1> hi jeff bye jeff...
[02:16] <JaneW> jelkner: if you can be there at least Wed-Sat it would be great (I can only reitterate that)
[02:16] <JaneW> ogra: we'll need to confirm before relying on it...
[02:17] <ogra> JaneW, yup... but t was the wording even before we started the last one...
[02:17] <Treenaks> sun/mon are planned for Ottawa, tue is travel back
[02:17] <flint1> did jeff go into the need for the "snow white" filter system?
[02:17] <JaneW> YES
[02:17] <JaneW> *cough* Bloody Americans *cough*
[02:17] <ogra> anyone interested in the technical status we're at ?
[02:17] <JaneW> ogra: yes please
[02:17] <flint1> absolutely
[02:18] <ogra> beware my paste !
[02:18] <ogra> Serious blocker bugs we have:
[02:18] <ogra> - #14967 - disappearing KDE menu items in the GNOME menu
[02:18] <ogra> - #12942 - NFS timeout causing second boot for thin clients
[02:18] <ogra> Normal bugs being resolved during development:
[02:18] <ogra> - ltsp-client-builder.udeb progress reporting is missing (time consuming to fix, every test needs a manual CD build)
[02:18] <ogra> - ltsp-server postinst needs to generate the dhcp.conf file dynamically according to the selected IP adress
[02:18] <ogra> Package bugs being resolved during development (to be solved this week):
[02:18] <ogra> - moodle www-config-common bug
[02:18] <ogra> - moodle security bug needs upgrade to v1.5.1
[02:18] <ogra> Improvements since preview:
[02:18] <ogra> - Missing default IP adress in the installer fixed
[02:18] <ogra> - the dhcp server doesnt ask questions anymore during install (big improvement, but needs the above ltsp-server fix too to work fully automatic)
[02:18] <ogra> - edubuntu-artwork now built to be used easily by all custom ubuntu distros
[02:18] <ogra> - schooltool fixed and in the default install now
[02:18] <ogra> - "Chicken Install" now possible :)
[02:18] <ogra> Things that "could" come (no promises, depending on amount of bugs and time):
[02:18] <ogra> - Probably a usplash pic reading edubuntu instead of ubuntu (if jbailey add the feature to usplash to be themeable)
[02:18] <ogra> - rebranding of the installer (ubuntu/edubuntu)
[02:18] <ogra> Note that we are at the very edge of CD space now (powerpc: 699MB, amd64: 647MB, i386: 635MB), 
[02:18] <ogra> all further additions will require to remove something !
[02:19] <Treenaks> ogra: remove ppc ;)
[02:19] <ogra> its tempting :)
[02:19] <sladen> ogra: the themeable bits need to go in for kubuntu too
[02:19] <ogra> but we had one user installing on a mac mini today :/
[02:20] <ogra> sladen, you mean usplash ? 
[02:20] <ogra> thats a nice to have, but no must...
[02:20] <Treenaks> sladen: they need a blue usplash? :)
[02:20] <ogra> we dont need to hide our inheritance
[02:20] <sladen> ogra: I think riddell is keen ;-)
[02:21] <ogra> sladen, depends if jbaileys fix gets accepted before release... so i dont bet on it now
[02:21] <sladen> who did the artwork, it's probably almost scriptable to render the logo, add a gradient and select the appropriate colour palette
[02:22] <sladen> ogra: and if not, usplash can be split into a usplash andan usplash-artwork which differnet packages can provide
[02:22] <JaneW> ogra: how's #14967 going?
[02:22] <Treenaks> sladen: yeah, get it in a vector format and use kdrive + cairo to get the image up 8)
[02:23] <ogra> JaneW, slow, its not easily reproducable... i hope i can build an alliance wit riddel, since he's affected too
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: you saw that Petter found it too...
[02:23] <flint1> 14967 is one of those that jeff was whining about... 
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: hmmm
[02:23] <ogra> JaneW, as i said yesterday, i'm trying to find a inotify specialist to help there...its not solvable by us alone i think
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: do you know anyone who fits the bill?
[02:24] <JaneW> mdz reckoned such a person was not easy to find...
[02:24] <ogra> JaneW, nope, probably BenC has enough kernel insight or fabbione ...
[02:24] <ogra> i'll run around and poke several people after the meeting
[02:25] <JaneW> ogra: ok thanks
[02:25] <flint1> what about Johnathan?
[02:25] <JaneW> ogra: what did you think of the feedback from the mac mini guy today?
[02:25] <JaneW> He seemed to have some valid points
[02:26] <ogra> JaneW, no idea what he did, thats all normal distro stuff that fails, not edubuntu specific... i tend to poit him to bugzilla
[02:26] <ogra> JaneW, but nothing we can solve in edubuntu specifically
[02:26] <flint1> we have not tested using the mac as a client, does this actually work?
[02:27] <ogra> flint1, ltsp-server is missing the feature to build the chroot for a different arch yet, mdz promised it would come before release... then it should work
[02:27] <flint1> thanks for the update my man.  Fantastic!
[02:28] <ogra> i think its a bit tricky to implement, will take time for him
[02:28] <ogra> which is rare onhisside)
[02:28] <ogra> bah,whereismyspacekeygone?
[02:28] <flint1> how many mdz clock ticks is edubuntu eating?  like half?
[02:29] <JaneW> lol@ogra
[02:29] <ogra> i doubt it...except the sleepless nights probably
[02:29] <JaneW> flint1: something like that
[02:29] <ogra> (space works again :))
[02:29] <flint1> he really hates getting my 08:00 PST calls...
[02:29] <ogra> heh
[02:29] <JaneW> flint1: that's NOT a good idea!
[02:29] <ogra> understandable
[02:29] <flint1> space....the final frontier
[02:30] <JaneW> don't phone prga at that time (UTC) either
[02:30] <flint1> ah, if i cannot piss off mdz then what use am i?
[02:30] <JaneW> flint1: that's actually pretty easilly achievable atm - we can all do it well ;)
[02:30] <JaneW> ok what's next, orga any more to report?
[02:31] <ogra> nope, the above is my final list
[02:31] <JaneW> Has everybody seen the cool artwork in http://art.ubuntu.com/ ?
[02:31] <ogra> if we have solved this, we are release ready
[02:31] <JaneW> I am very impressed with our community artwork
[02:31] <JaneW> esp Steve Torrefranca - he is very good.
[02:31] <JaneW> ogra: np then '
[02:31] <JaneW> )
[02:31] <ogra> i'm not really impressed by the badger backgrounds...
[02:32] <ogra> the badger is neat but i the background hurts my eyes afetr some time
[02:33] <flint1> the angle here is the saturation in these graphics will appeal to younger children
[02:33] <ogra> to coulored, to wild to use as a real background... the icons will disappear in the coulorfullness...
[02:33] <ogra> you wont be able to distinguish the icons from the background easily...
[02:34] <flint1> as you appeal to older and still older students, you will want to change the style.
[02:34] <ogra> i'm not talking about taste
[02:35] <flint1> with luck we can start an amusement park called "badger world" and make a packet.
[02:35] <ogra> its simply not usable, try to clutter your desktop with icons and use this background... go away over the weekend and try to find a particular icon again
[02:35] <ogra> they get swallowed, its to colorful
[02:35] <flint1> there is a great deal to be said for human brown.
[02:35] <JaneW> from a kids point of view they are great i.e. I love them :)
[02:36] <JaneW> I am using one right now :)
[02:36] <JaneW> they are cheerful
[02:36] <flint1> Ollie, you see these through the eyes of a grown man.  Go find a child and do a test.
[02:36] <JaneW> ogra: ah but you keep a cluttered desktop ;)
[02:36] <ogra> JaneW, i'm talking about usability... not taste, i know kids like it colorful, but we shouldnt provide defaults that are hardly working with usablility requirtments
[02:36] <sladen> this is the same reason that kids love comic sans... prettiness and I'm sure they're young eyes can cope with the strain
[02:37] <sladen> s/they're/their/
[02:37] <JaneW> sladen: I agree
[02:37] <flint1> I swear Ollie, as we get older our sensitivity to color saturation dramaticallly increases...
[02:37] <ogra> flint1, again, its not about taste...
[02:37] <JaneW> esp when alcohol is involved....
[02:37] <ogra> another color would probably sole it already
[02:37] <flint1> lol
[02:37] <ogra> solve
[02:38] <JaneW> ogra: atm I have one icon in each of the quilted squares, it's funky ;)
[02:38] <ogra> and note, we wont be able to include any background we have, there is not enough space... we are on the very edge
[02:38] <flint1> the angle I see is that you could tell what grade or form a classroom was just through the graphic displayed
[02:39] <JaneW> the space issue sucks... I believe kubuntu is battling too...
[02:39] <ogra> (except we drop ppc)
[02:39] <JaneW> can we shave anything anywhere?
[02:39] <JaneW> ogra: doit!
[02:39] <JaneW> ;)
[02:39] <ogra> if we'd rop ppc we'd have 50MB on amd64 and 70 on x86 :)
[02:40] <ogra> JaneW, so you'll answer all the complaints from mac users ? 
[02:40] <spacey> ogra, sounds fair enough ;)
[02:40] <ogra> they should have at least the standalone workstation install...
[02:40] <JaneW> sure, dear mac user, get a proer PC *hide*
[02:40] <ogra> heh
[02:41] <sladen> ogra: just make the ppc CD bigger eg. 700MB and keep the other two at 650MB
[02:41] <ogra> sladen, it *is* 700MB
[02:41] <ogra> sladen, all images of edubuntu are
[02:41] <ogra> we are at 699MB on ppc
[02:42] <sladen> bling!
[02:42] <flint1> so the graphics are limited on the power pc.  big deal!
[02:42] <flint1> how is the i386 loading?
[02:42] <ogra> flint1, ?
[02:43] <flint1> I thought that you had cd load problems on the power pc distro.  did i get this right?
[02:43] <flint1> by load i mean size
[02:43] <ogra> nope, we have space probs on ppc
[02:43] <ogra> ah, yes
[02:44] <ogra> x86 is around 640MB
[02:44] <flint1> ppc is power pc yes?
[02:44] <ogra> a bit less...
[02:44] <ogra> yp
[02:44] <ogra> yup even
[02:44] <flint1> ok then - i also mislabled x386 as i386, my bad.
[02:44] <ogra> ppc is traditionally bigger... an i dont want to drop it if possible
[02:45] <ogra> flint1, call it sa you like ... i386 is the right technical term...
[02:45] <ogra> i'm just to lazy to type powerpc :)
[02:45] <flint1> interesting, when I took assembler i always thought motorola code was more compact...
[02:46] <flint1> I remain a motorola bigot!
[02:46] <ogra> ppc has some tools and kernels the others dont have
[02:46] <flint1> thus it comes down to balance, now your build script for ppc is out of whack from amd and i386.
[02:47] <ogra> the size difference isnt avoidable...
[02:47] <flint1> I honestly have never booted ppc ubuntu.
[02:47] <ogra> flint1, i have no influence on build scripts
[02:47] <flint1> gotcha, you just control what is in the build tree.
[02:48] <ogra> thast all automated... i only can influence the app selection... i could drop some apps from ppc, but we already are down to the bare minimum
[02:48] <ogra> so the user experience wouldnt be the same... i' like to avoid that
[02:49] <ogra> we have all apps in by realease and have still a good Cd for all arches, we just wont be able to provide a ton of artwork
[02:49] <flint1> as I am in the process of moving from DC to Vermont, my mac stuff is packed and in a quarry near Montpelior.  I cannot test or investigate ppc matters until later this month.
[02:50] <ogra> i doubt there will be problems with ppc... it works in ubuntu, so it should work for us as well
[02:50] <flint1> seems to me we are either killing artwork or language overlays.  Language overlays always win.
[02:51] <ogra> mdz already said he cant imagine MACs in school environment, he wouldnt object to drop ppc... but i do...
[02:51] <rickfitz> I assume this only affects the server. Could still use mac clients on an i386 server?
[02:51] <ogra> flint1, we only have one language packa left on the CD , there is nothing you cold drop...
[02:52] <ogra> rickfitz, if the missing --arch feature is added to ltsp-build-client, yes
[02:52] <flint1> as servers macs are not so popular in these parts.  As clients mdz is wrong.
[02:52] <ogra> rickfitz, but that doesnt affect the ppc CD
[02:52] <ogra> rickfitz, since you will build it on a i386 server
[02:52] <ogra> (which requires the i386 CD)
[02:53] <flint1> on another topic not related to edubuntu, ...Elkner and I had a big fight over printer drivers...
[02:53] <ogra> ppc is only interesting for ppc servers and ppc standlone workstations...
[02:53] <JaneW> does anybody know how the docs are loking, jsgotngco has been owrking on them...
[02:54] <ogra> flint1, thats something we inherit 100% from ubuntu... if you find bugs, please file them in ubuntu
[02:54] <flint1> very impressive typos accompanying your discussion of docs jane...
[02:54] <JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
[02:54] <flint1> gotcha ollie.
[02:54] <JaneW> flint1: I tent to hit the right keys, just not in the right order... can you tell I have a wonderful musical ability too? ;)
[02:55] <flint1> is Colin's stuff updated to current release?
[02:55] <ogra> flint1, whats colins stuff ? 
[02:55] <JaneW> flint1: I don't think so, he has all but vanished...?
[02:55] <ogra> i never heard abou that ? 
[02:56] <flint1> Step-by-step LTSP setup by Colin Applegate
[02:56] <flint1> Colin went to college and likely got a girlfriend...
[02:56] <ogra> oh, the hoary stuff...
[02:56] <ogra> we should tag that deprecated
[02:57] <flint1> Jane this is not misogyny it is reality...
[02:57] <flint1> I will read it over and determine if we can update it in the current context.
[02:58] <ogra> flint1, some stuff about sound on the thin client and local NW acess would be cool, thats something we dont provide in this relese
[02:58] <ogra> s/NW/HW
[02:58] <ogra> flint1, i think colin had some ideas there
[02:59] <flint1> ah yes, the two hard nut, local access////
[02:59] <rickfitz> I was going to ask about sound. How far off is that?
[02:59] <ogra> i'll solve both for breezy+1 it wasnt  onthe plan for breezy...
[03:00] <rickfitz> That's good
[03:00] <flint1> I really like the fact that you can alt <F> to a character screen on the clients.  
[03:01] <flint1> when you do this on a client, are you logging into the server or the local?
[03:01] <ogra> currently using something like NAS should be the way to go... but we have no sane default setup yet and i personally would love to tunnel the sound throughssh like we do with the graphicsalready
[03:01] <ogra> flint1, thats local
[03:01] <ogra> and there is no user by default, so you cant get in anyway
[03:02] <flint1> I noticed...
[03:02] <ogra> we should probably drop a "DontZap" option in the xorg.conf to avoid the switching at all
[03:03] <ogra> currently its helpful if you set a root PW in the chroot, you can login and read logs on the client... good for debugging
[03:03] <flint1> how hard would it be to grant local access, if there is a working linux partition on the local machine?
[03:03] <flint1> I am talking breezy+1 stuff here now.
[03:03] <ogra> flint1, you'd have to have an nfs server on the client and mount it on the server, i dont se any other solution currently
[03:04] <ogra> for breezy+1 i'll look into all solutions available...
[03:04] <flint1> ...makes my head hurt to think of it.
[03:04] <ogra> yes, its a back and forth through the network...
[03:05] <ogra> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre3/29050-3.png
[03:05] <ogra> jdub just posted that in -devel :) ^^^
[03:06] <flint1> This is illustrative of my argument with Elkner, the printer worked for everything but the printer variable was set wrong for the PDF viewer, his position is that due to this lack of 100% operation he would prefer none.  I say keep the alt screens active, they represent a promise of future funcionality, 
[03:06] <ogra> you mean the console ? 
[03:07] <ogra> that'd be hard to maintain for a normal teacher...
[03:07] <flint1> yes, any young mind evil enough to find the local console may be able to eventually solve the problem...
[03:07] <ogra> you have to login into the chroot to make changes, all is commandline work ...
[03:08] <ogra> flint1, nope, you cant login, there is no user and root is locked
[03:08] <ogra> no way to log in...
[03:08] <flint1> yes, I can see the point from the teachers side, a kid putting the machine in console mode effectively broke the client.
[03:08] <ogra> flint1, you cant
[03:08] <ogra> its technically not possible...
[03:09] <flint1> is this a bug or a feature?  i reluctantly vote bug.
[03:09] <ogra> except you poked around in the chroot manually indeed
[03:09] <ogra> flint1, its a security requirement...
[03:09] <flint1> nah, i just hit ctl alt <F1>
[03:09] <ogra> no bug, rather a feature
[03:10] <ogra> flint1, and ? what do you do there ?
[03:10] <flint1> I was, a dicipline problem in school myself...
[03:10] <flint1> looked at a console login, that was all that I could do.
[03:10] <ogra> you can see the console, thats all..
[03:10] <flint1> so you say you can make this fuctionality which leads no where go away?
[03:10] <ogra> as i said, i think about adding a "DontZap" option to xorg.conf for release, currently its needed for debugging
[03:11] <ogra> s/debugging/easier debugging/
[03:11] <flint1> amen to that DontZap for release...
[03:11] <ogra> i'll tald to mdz about it...
[03:11] <ogra> talk
[03:12] <flint1> no, s/talk/wake up and talk/ :^)
[03:12] <ogra> heh
[03:13] <flint1> neat.  I will look over colin's documentaion.  I can mark depreciated till it is updated please let me know if I should do this.
[03:13] <ogra> flint1, if it helps our users, DOIT ! :)
[03:13] <flint1> ok then.
[03:14] <ogra> flint1, so we wont see colin at UBZ ?
[03:14] <flint1> I will track my boy down figure this out, and report back.
[03:15] <ogra> :)
[03:15] <flint1> This whole going to class thing can be a real constraint.
[03:15] <ogra> oh, we lost jane
[03:15] <flint1> we put jane to sleep?
[03:15] <ogra> who closes the meeting now ? OMG, we're stck in this meeting forever
[03:16] <flint1> jeez, you start talking about caracter mode and jane goes away.  How GUI!
[03:16] <ogra> ah, the mistress is back :)
[03:16] <flint1> I feel the spiked heels once again!
[03:16] <ogra> lol
[03:16] <spacey> btw will translations be ok for edubuntu?
[03:17] <spacey> applications/places/system is not translated atm
[03:17] <spacey> the least i would expect :)
[03:17] <ogra> spacey, everything we inherit from ubuntu will be ok...
[03:17] <spacey> yeah ok its ubuntu part
[03:17] <ogra> all the other stuff needs to be handled...
[03:18] <spacey> btw are there any ideas on how to handle if all the kids want to use the same login? its not possible is it?
[03:18] <flint1> it is not possible is correct
[03:18] <ogra> spacey, nope
[03:18] <flint1> Elkner has been known to set up numerically related logins
[03:18] <spacey> because the kids are too retarded to remember logins
[03:18] <flint1> (the security geek within me cringes)
[03:19] <spacey> guess we will make logins per pc
[03:19] <flint1> that works, post the login on the pc
[03:19] <spacey> yeah
[03:19] <flint1> the eventual deal here is to give each munchkin their own personal directory space...
[03:20] <ogra> the gconf database is bound to a user... if you log in twice, you loose the gconf settings for this user, i'd give every pupil a login... so tey keep their personal sttings all the time and learn to handle passwords etc responsible
[03:20] <flint1> that becomes like their locker, or their desk.
[03:20] <spacey> ogra, they are to young and not 100% so that won't work
[03:20] <ogra> flint1, thats what /home is for...
[03:20] <ogra> flint1, i wouldnt do anything additionally...
[03:20] <\sh> spacey: how old are they? My son was loosing his password one time when he was 6 
[03:20] <flint1> ollie home is exactly what I ment...
[03:21] <ogra> ah :)
[03:21] <spacey> \sh, its a primary school
[03:21] <ogra> so 6-10 ?
[03:21] <spacey> and the kids are like i said not 100%, school for difficult learning/behavior kids
[03:21] <\sh> spacey: yes....my son was dealing with computers at his primary school...
[03:21] <flint1> these are not munchkins yet, these stacy are ankle-biters...
[03:21] <spacey> flint1, :)
[03:21] <spacey> lol
[03:22] <flint1> go with the map to machines, and allude to giving them their own space.  This could be and educational avenue.
[03:22] <\sh> spacey: this is a good approach..give them something like a "businesscard" with their usernames and password
[03:22] <\sh> thats what we did in primary school
[03:22] <spacey> \sh, i will remember that :) 
[03:22] <spacey> sounds like something that might work
[03:23] <flint1> The sooner and ankle-biter develops an electronic identity, the sooner they graduate to munchkin status.
[03:23] <ogra> flint1, do you know if elkner tested my themeable login app ? 
[03:23] <spacey> at least for the older grades
[03:23] <flint1> oh boy,  am i in trouble...
[03:23] <spacey> anyway we don't have to reset the passwords if they forget, the local school employee will do that
[03:23] <\sh> spacey: it works as well for smaller kiddings...and also for difficult learning/behaviour kids...
[03:24] <ogra> i think i couls add something like usb key or smartcard authentication to it... but i need tests tests tests to have it in breezy+1
[03:24] <flint1> I swear I will test it by tomorrow!  A MIGHTY OATH!!!
[03:24] <\sh> ogra: the kids need an approach, it should handled as a game
[03:24] <flint1> ollie this I&A question is most delicate.  It relates to child development as much as technology.
[03:25] <flint1> Ollie the game idea is facinating... What is your angle?
[03:25] <Mithrandir> ogra: I think adding getting opensc support integrated into breezy+1 would rock.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> ogra: only problem is the cards cost a little bit each, and so do the readers.
[03:26] <ogra> i nearly rewrote gdm for that temeable ldm thing... now adding features should be easy... 
[03:26] <flint1> opensc is not for either ankle-biters or munchkins, is if for the next level after?
[03:26] <ogra> flint1, \sh make some mockups how it should be, i can build it in...
[03:27] <\sh> Mithrandir: thinking about those sun solaris enterprise extention..
[03:27] <Mithrandir> flint1: opensc is a framework for smartcards.
[03:27] <ogra> (or write ups if no mockups)
[03:27] <JaneW> hi...
[03:27] <flint1> yea i got opensc,
[03:27] <Mithrandir> flint1: so it would be sunray-like, except you wouldn't have to buy sun and run solaris.
[03:27] <\sh> ogra: it's nothing technical...this is educational and psychological approach ;) 
[03:27] <ogra> its a feature i'm missing since ages in gdm...
[03:28] <ogra> \sh, yes, make me a step by setp list how such a game should look like
[03:28] <Mithrandir> flint1: if we manage to get nx rocking for breezy+1, it'll mean you can disconnect your session and such too
[03:28] <flint1> keep in mind that spacey's question related to very young children.  in the case of these very young you map to the machine and go on with education.
[03:28] <\sh> ogra: how did u start in primary school?
[03:28] <\sh> u got your card with your name ;) and you were responsible for this card
[03:28] <ogra> flint1, as i said, if i get a writeup how such a game should look like, i can implement it
[03:29] <\sh> and u were proud to have this card
[03:29] <flint1> lemme think abou this game idea some more ollie...
[03:29] <ogra> oki
[03:29] <spacey> Mithrandir, FreeNX works in breezy perfectly
[03:29] <flint1> suppose you could not join the "game" unless you had an identy (eg I&A)
[03:29] <spacey> got it installed succesfully on Edubuntu server as well
[03:30] <ogra> spacey, its not even *in* breezy
[03:30] <spacey> ogra, well external repo ;)
[03:30] <spacey> but it works
[03:30] <spacey> :p
[03:30] <ogra> i know... that has a reason, you know ? 
[03:30] <Mithrandir> spacey: the packaging sucks.  Which is why I'm working on fixing that.
[03:30] <spacey> second X codebase?
[03:30] <ogra> spacey, see Mithrandir 
[03:30] <flint1> i believe that someone has been at the apt repository, FreeNX is a good thing.
[03:30] <spacey> Mithrandir, the packaging is ok i think, i don't mean the one in backupports repo
[03:31] <spacey> oh the packaging in general
[03:31] <flint1> spacy, have you looked at someting called "teacher tool"?
[03:31] <spacey> yeah that might be true
[03:31] <spacey> flint1, nop, i should?
[03:31] <ogra> flint1, doesnt work with our ltsp implementation
[03:32] <flint1> it may be broken right now, look carefully.
[03:32] <flint1> it allowed the teacher to display to all desktops as well as lookin in on any desktop.
[03:32] <flint1> way better than a video projector.
[03:32] <ogra> flint1, it monitors remote X11 sessions... we done even use X for transport in our ltsp...
[03:32] <flint1> I know, can we ever get that functionality back?
[03:33] <ogra> flint1, thats what SCP is planned for, but i havent had the time to finish it in time for breezy
[03:33] <flint1> another breezy +1 item then.
[03:33] <ogra> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre3/29050-3.png
[03:33] <ogra> oops
[03:33] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/SCP.png
[03:33] <ogra> thats what i meant...
[03:34] <flint1> very nice, and not very big as a file....
[03:34] <ogra> the network button will show a little screenshot of the desktop, the right pane will list all running apps with n option to stop them
[03:34] <spacey> nice
[03:34] <ogra> if you click the network button, the tool will automaticaly establish a VNC connection to the students desktp
[03:35] <ogra> 90% works, but the missing 10% are taking much time...
[03:35] <flint1> ollie if you implemented teachertool with FreeNX could teacher tool be made to work?
[03:35] <ogra> thats why it became a dapper item
[03:35] <spacey> ogra, available for testing?
[03:35] <ogra> flint1, implementing teacher tool would mean rewrite teacher tool
[03:36] <ogra> spacey, nope
[03:36] <ogra> flint1, thats more work than finishing SCP
[03:36] <flint1> ok, i know the original author
[03:36] <flint1> hey Johnathan
[03:36] <flint1> sorry jonathan...
[03:37] <flint1> gotta loose that "h"
[03:37] <ogra> where is our chairwoman ? 
[03:38] <ogra> JaneW, ? 
[03:38] <flint1> The student control panel is nice.  The viceral real time control that teachertool gave is potent.
[03:38] <flint1> bet she is making tea or some other such commonwealth activity...
[03:39] <ogra> flint1, its mainly incorporating all teacher tool functionality, just with the right backends for edubuntu...
[03:39] <ogra> flint1, yes, but i'm german... you know we germans need a leader ;)
[03:39] <flint1> can you actually share and view desktops?
[03:40] <JaneW> ogra: I'm multitasking but here...
[03:40] <ogra> flint1, the teacher can VNC to the pupils desktop...
[03:40] <flint1> ...give me one generation of german youth....
[03:40] <JaneW> this one hour meeting has a habit of dragging on to 2 hours at least...
[03:40] <flint1> I was writing up a high level wish list for edubuntu... any ideas
[03:40] <ogra> JaneW, since we drift into #edubuntu chatiing since 20min, cn we adjourn the meeting and move over to #edubuntu ? 
[03:41] <flint1> that's because I am always late!
[03:41] <JaneW> flint1: add to BOF list please, so it doesn;t get lost
[03:41] <flint1> bof url?
[03:41] <JaneW> I wish it would just work!
[03:41] <JaneW>  ;)
[03:41] <ogra> JaneW, what ? 
[03:41] <JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
[03:41] <flint1> Did you go and get tea jane?
[03:42] <flint1> thanks jane...
[03:42] <JaneW> flint1: not yet
[03:42] <JaneW> ogra: joke...
[03:42] <JaneW> ogra: that was my wish for the wish list (i.e. all the bugs could dissappear)
[03:42] <ogra> JaneW, i just didnt understand whatshould just work :)
[03:42] <ogra> JaneW, ah... at least we have it "chicken install" ready since todays build :)
[03:43] <ogra> i.e. put some seeds on the enter key, put a chicken in front of the pc and boot it with te edubuntu CD ... in one hour the chicken fnished your install
[03:43] <JaneW> lol
[03:44] <JaneW> ogra: will the chicken be cooked by the end too?
[03:44] <ogra> untested yet though
[03:44] <JaneW> that would be cool...
[03:44] <Mithrandir> ogra: does the partitioner default to "eat my partitions"?
[03:44] <ogra> lest see, thats an extra installer option, i'll talk to colin about a oven.udeb
[03:44] <flint1> the install works ok.
[03:44] <ogra> Mithrandir, its the same partitioner as ubuntu uses with the same defaults
[03:45] <Mithrandir> ogra: then you need to put some seeds on the left arrow key too
[03:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, ah, damned iforgot...
[03:45] <ogra> so only a 99.9% chicken install :)
[03:45] <flint1> if it is going to eat partitions, why not call it cookie_monster?  There are draditions...
[03:45] <ogra> lol
[03:46] <ogra> so can we close the meeting and move the common chatting over to #edubuntu ? 
[03:46] <ogra> JaneW, ^^ ?
[03:46] <JaneW> yes please
[03:46] <JaneW> ta
[03:46] <ogra> thanks jane
[03:47] <JaneW> thanks again for a great achievement with the preview
[03:47] <flint1> Ollie, I damed you with too faint praise, forgive me.
[03:47] <ogra> to be honest, todays daily is what i wanted for preview...
[03:47] <flint1> you done good Ollie.
[03:48] <ogra> its technically far beyond the preview
[03:48] <JaneW> cool
[03:48] <flint1> ok I'm outa here...later youse guys (and gals).
[03:49] <flint1> bye
[03:49] <JaneW> so Edubuntu 1.0 can be called the Pecking Chicken relase...
[03:49] <JaneW> bye
[03:49] <ogra> but we have only 6 bugs left now... so i look forward to release with a calming feeling...
[03:50] <ogra> (as long as we solve 14967 and 12942 during the net 4 weeks)
[03:50] <JaneW> nod
[06:22] <Yann2> hi
[06:22] <Yann2> i had a question.. who s in charge at canonical for shipit?
[06:26] <Lathiat> Yann2: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/shipit/