[12:47] <sabdfl> night all
[12:48] <mdz> night
[01:15] <jordi> kiko?
[01:16] <jordi> nite me too
[01:24] <Kinnison> night sabdfl 
[01:24] <Kinnison> sabdfl: see you tomorrow
[01:43] <kiko> jordi, darn. wanted to talk to you
[04:25] <Kinnison> spiv: I've added a branch to your queue, If you can, I'd appreciate a first review of the two so-far unreviewed branches I have in your queue
[04:26] <spiv> Ok.
[04:26] <Kinnison> spiv: thanks dude, you're a star
[04:26] <Kinnison> it's now 03:26 and I need to be up at 06:45 so I'm off to bed
[04:26] <Kinnison> ciao
[04:26] <spiv> Ouch.
[04:26] <spiv> Sleep well (and fast!)
[04:26] <Kinnison> thanks dude
[04:26] <Kinnison> ciao
[05:16] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Lots of small fixes suggested by people who tried shipit since it reached staging. r=kiko (patch-2413: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
[06:45] <tiago_> hello people. i have just joined launchpad.net to help with brazilian portuguese translation. but how can i do this gpg thing?? can someone help me?
[06:46] <spiv> tiago_: You don't need to worry about gpg to do the translation; if you've got that far you've signed up.
[06:47] <tiago_> well, ok then. I will start some work by now.
[06:47] <tiago_> thanks spiv! :)
[08:33] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2413 into production (patch-4: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com, stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
[08:40] <SteveA> morning
[08:41] <stub> yo
[08:54] <SteveA> did you try out the new servertest code?
[08:55] <sivang> Morning all
[08:58] <stub> Nope
[09:00] <SteveA> if it doesn't work this time, i'll have to actually stop the socket from listening altogether when there's too many tasks pending.
[09:00] <SteveA> right now, it accepts then immediately rejects before any writes or reads
[09:00] <SteveA> that might be not good enough
[09:06] <stub> Server value
[09:06] <stub>               Specify for how long Pound will  wait  for  a  server  response.
[09:06] <stub>               After  this  long has passed without the server sending any data
[09:06] <stub>               Pound will consider the response finished and abort the  connec
[09:06] <stub>               tion.  A  value  of  0 (default) implies waiting forever. Set it
[09:06] <stub>               higher if your server(s) occasionally time-out on a slow network
[09:06] <stub>               or are over-loaded.
[09:07] <SteveA> hmmm... but will launchpad still try to do the work?
[09:07] <SteveA> perhaps not, if pound's end of the connection is broken
[09:07] <stub> I suspect it will - Z3 won't notice the connection was dropped until it tries to send the reply.
[09:08] <stub> Argh - you are distracting me!
[09:08] <SteveA> from?
[09:20] <sabdfl> howdy all
[09:21] <SteveA> hey
[09:21] <sabdfl> jamesh: ping
[09:22] <stub> SteveA: Research on table statistics
[09:22] <stub> morning
[09:24] <jamesh> sabdfl: pong.
[09:24] <jamesh> I'm looking at your branch (among other things)
[09:24] <sabdfl> jamesh: cool, thanks, am hoping to land today with your comments
[10:07] <stub> SteveA: With the server test, Pound reports a (customizable) 500 error to the client when your server drops the connection.
[10:08] <SteveA> is that good enough?
[10:08] <stub> SteveA: Which is exactly the same as your first test server ;)
[10:08] <SteveA> oh
[10:08] <SteveA> darn
[10:08] <SteveA> so, i think i'll have to make it actually stop the socket listening.
[10:08] <SteveA> i'll do some more experimentation later on today.
[10:09] <stub> Yes. Otherwise Pound won't flag the server as down and will keep sending requests to it.
[10:09] <SteveA> ok
[10:09] <SteveA> jamesh: how's the max request length thing going?
[10:09] <stub> I'm not sure if it is really worth spending too much time on - so far, if one of our servers has locked like this the otherone does the same shortly afterwards. So the 500 could be fine for the time being.
[10:13] <SteveA> i think i know where to hook this in now
[10:13] <SteveA> so, let's have one more try, and then use the best approach so far
[10:43] <Burgundavia> jordi, ping
[10:48] <jordi> Burgundavia: pong
[10:49] <Burgundavia> jordi, do you have any ideas about translating screenshots and how to make that easy?
[10:50] <jordi> Burgundavia: yeah
[10:50] <jordi> http://live.gnome.org/ReleaseNotes_2fTranslating
[10:55] <Kinnison> Morning all
[10:56] <mdke> jordi, I have another quick question for you if you dont mind :/ sorry to bug you all the time
[10:56] <jordi> mdke: no probs
[10:57] <mdke> jordi, i've had an email from a persian guy who says in order to translate his language properly he needs to set the document as "rtl"
[10:57] <mdke> jordi, he wants to have the document as html directly so that he can do this, do you know if there is another solution so that he can translate in rosetta and we can still get xml back at the end of it?
[10:58] <jordi> mdke: I can't see why he'd need to do this. Why can't he do po->xml and then let xml renderers do the rtl thing?
[10:58] <mdke> i don't know how it works
[10:58] <mdke> jordi, is it ok if I cc: you into the email correspondence?
[10:58] <jordi> he basically wants text to flow from right to left, like in hebrew, arabic...
[10:58] <jordi> mdke: sure
[11:00] <sivang> Kinnison: hey daniel , 'sup?
[11:00] <Kinnison> hey sivang. Not much, working hard on 2h30m of sleep :-)
[11:01] <mdke> jordi, thanks yet again
[11:02] <Kinnison> spiv: What is the rationale for __metaclass__ = type vs. inherit-from-object ?
[11:06] <spiv> Kinnison: One is consistency with all our other code.  The other is that this way you can't accidentally forget to inherit from object, then spend an hour wondering why @property silently doesn't work.
[11:06] <bob2> hmm
[11:06] <bob2> doesn't forgetting that __metaclass__ declaration have the same problem?
[11:06] <Kinnison> spiv: I see
[11:07] <Kinnison> spiv: It's just the most confusing of the coding requirements we have from my PoV :-)
[11:08] <spiv> bob2: Yes, but that shouldn't happen, because all new python files should start their life with the contents of standard_template.py ;)
[11:08] <spiv> bob2: And it's only one line to remember, rather than on every single class declaration.
[11:08] <bob2> ah, heh
[11:08] <bob2> true
[11:09] <spiv> Kinnison: There are arguments the other way, but the main thing at this stage is that we've made that decision, it's worked well for us so far, and consistency is important :)
[11:10] <bob2> is there a test for this? ;)
[11:10] <Kinnison> I'm just an object-pascal programmer at heart, so the idea that you always need something to inherit from makes sense to me, and that if you have nothing better you inherit from object makes sense to me
[11:10] <spiv> Just try to get in the habit of doing :r standard_template.py when you start a new python file ;)
[11:10] <Kinnison> spiv: -ESYNTAX
[11:11] <spiv> Or whatever the elisp equivalent may be.
[11:11] <lifeless> Kinnison: read a file into the current buffer
[11:11] <Kinnison> lifeless: aah, gotcha
[11:11] <lifeless> without changing the buffers identity
[11:12] <spiv> :help :r    ;)
[11:12] <Kinnison> M-x insert-file RET /path/to/standard_template.py RET
[11:12] <Kinnison> :-)
[11:12] <Kinnison> Or C-x i /path/to/standard_template.py RET
[11:12] <lifeless> see, emacs is easier
[11:12] <lifeless> honest
[11:12] <jordi> kiko-zzz: whenever you're up, I'm around
[12:22] <sivang> lifeless: ipython is love , I'm now using it solely to workout and self explore the core api and selected sysprogramming modules :=)
[12:22] <Kinnison> my body is rebelling against my unruly facial hair
[12:22] <jordi> what time is today's meeting?
[12:22] <Kinnison>  /topic | espgrep meeting
[12:22] <Kinnison> Developers' meeting, Thursday 15 Sep, 12:00 UTC
[12:24] <jordi> err, woops. Thanks
[01:00] <Kinnison> spiv: Any word on the Release stuff?
[01:00] <spiv> Kinnison: Just got back from dinner, doing it now.
[01:01] <Kinnison> spiv: oh right, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your food
[01:06] <segfault> is LP completely written in python?
[01:07] <Kinnison> The main app is, yes
[01:07] <Kinnison> Some bits of the subsystems are in shell
[01:08] <spiv> Plus a makefile ;)
[01:08] <spiv> If you want to be really complete.
[01:09] <SteveA> segfault: LP uses various libraries and infrastructure that is mostly python.  there is some C.
[01:27] <segfault> for making the web interface, what does it use? i mean, what python libs
[01:28] <Kinnison> lots of them really
[01:28] <Kinnison> Erm, pytz, pyme, zope, pygettextpo, and more
[01:28] <niemeyer> Bom dia! :)
[01:28] <Kinnison> oi niemeyer.
[01:31] <Kinnison> SteveA: should I post my time notes as separate days, or all in one?
[01:31] <SteveA> activity reporting?
[01:31] <SteveA> separate days
[01:31] <Kinnison> aye
[01:31] <Kinnison> okies
[01:31] <SteveA> launchpad meeting in about half an hour
[01:31] <SteveA>  /msg me items
[01:32] <segfault> so, it mainly uses zope for presentation stuff.
[01:33] <SteveA> it uses zope3 for the web application
[01:33] <SteveA> the security infrastructure, and the component architecture
[01:36] <sivang> Kinnison: do you use the Zope auto presentation capabilites  or control yourselfs how LP displays data, fields, classes ?
[01:36] <Kinnison> I don't have a clue
[01:36] <SteveA> we use the zope widget and forms stuff quite a bit
[01:36] <Kinnison> Publisher Release file support, spotted and fixed Source related bug
[01:36] <Kinnison> so that Release files build properly. Successfully build an archive
[01:36] <Kinnison> with proper Source and Release files (alongside correct Packages and
[01:36] <Kinnison> correct d-i files) against the entire dogfood archive.
[01:36] <Kinnison> 8h + 3h after pub
[01:36] <Kinnison> oh pants
[01:36] <Kinnison> sorry
[01:36] <bob2> hehe
[01:37] <bob2> pity it wasn't 3h at pub
[01:37] <Kinnison> bob2: pub didn't have wireless
[01:37] <Kinnison> bob2: plus, pub had beer, which was infinitely more inviting than three hours of coding in python
[01:37] <bob2> true, true
[01:37] <Kinnison> There was a beer called "Holy Bones"
[01:38] <Kinnison> so I had a half-pint of it and the barman handed me the drink and said "One holy metatarsal"
[01:38] <bob2> haha
[01:38] <bob2> ely or cambridge?
[01:38] <sivang> Kinnison: are you sure? =) 
[01:38] <Kinnison> bob2: cambridge
[01:39] <Kinnison> sivang: sure about what?
[01:39] <sivang> Kinnison: 13:37 < Kinnison> bob2: plus, pub had beer, which was infinitely more inviting than three hours of coding in python
[01:39] <Kinnison> sivang: quite sure. Beer == nice comfortable mental state. Python == headaches
[01:40] <sivang> Kinnison: hehe
[01:40] <SteveA> python + beer = fun
[01:40] <bob2> lua vs beer would be a tougher one, i'd bet
[01:40] <sivang> segfault: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadTechnologyOverview <== maybe this will help you 
[01:40] <jordi> SteveA: python + beer = System error :)
[01:40] <sivang> jordi: AH AH
[01:41] <bob2> you need to get some eggs in there somehow
[01:41] <SteveA> launchpad meeting in 20 mins, /msg me special agenda items.
[01:41] <bob2> maybe floating in the beer
[01:41] <SteveA> bob2: what a repellant thought
[01:41] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Buildd slave chroot tool. r=spiv (patch-2414: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
[01:42] <sivang> bob2: why eggs?
[01:42] <segfault> sivang: nice, thanks.
[01:42] <bob2> eggs have a long and fabled history
[01:42] <bob2> as well as being zope hacking fuel
[01:43] <jamesh> bob2: couldn't be worse than a pie floater
[01:43] <Kinnison> bob2: the way I was feeling last night, beer won over lua
[01:43] <jamesh> http://www.lard.net/pie1.jpg
[01:43] <bob2> Kinnison: ah :/
[01:43] <Kinnison> bob2: Of course, my idea of beer is one half-pint over three hours
[01:44] <Kinnison> bob2: and then some ginger beer afterwards
[01:44] <bob2> jamesh: I've always said WA should just secede
[01:44] <bob2> Kinnison: yummay
[01:44] <jamesh> bob2: pie floaters aren't western australian
[01:44] <bob2> quokka floater!
[01:44] <jamesh> I think they're south australian
[01:49] <SteveA> T-10 minutes.  take a workrave now.
[01:49] <sivang> jamesh: what is this pie floater? what is it made of?
[01:57] <SteveA> hi mpt, cprov.  /msg me agenda items.
[01:57] <jamesh> sivang: (1) take a bowl of green pea soup, (2) float a meat pie in it and (3) add tomato sauce
[01:58] <cprov> SteveA: ok
[02:00] <jblack> Whoop! Meeting time! 
[02:00] <kiko> he said it
[02:00] <kiko> how is everyone?
[02:01] <niemeyer> kiko!
[02:01] <SteveA> it is time indeed
[02:01] <lifeless> awake
[02:01] <SteveA> let's go
[02:01] <jblack> I've had 8 cups of coffee in the last hour. 
[02:01] <niemeyer> kiko: How're you doing?
[02:01] <SteveA> MEETING STARTED
[02:01] <jblack> i.e., same old smae old.
[02:01] <SteveA> who's present?
[02:01] <kiko> hey gustavo
[02:01] <kiko> not too bad
[02:01] <bradb> me
[02:01] <jblack> me
[02:01] <BjornT> me
[02:01] <salgado> me
[02:01] <cprov> me
[02:01] <kiko> my present!
[02:01] <niemeyer> me
[02:01] <Keybuk> I'm not
[02:01] <lifeless> awl
[02:01] <mpt> me
[02:01] <Kinnison> Keybuk: bloody induhviduals
[02:01] <spiv> me
[02:01] <jamesh> me
[02:02] <SteveA> apologies / absences:
[02:02] <SteveA> morgs on vacation
[02:02] <SteveA> daf, sick leave
[02:02] <stub> Yo
[02:02] <SteveA> debonzi, at university
[02:02] <SteveA> carlos, on vacation
[02:02] <ddaa> coucou
[02:02] <SteveA> did i miss anyone?
[02:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[02:03] <SteveA>  - roll call
[02:03] <SteveA>  - agenda
[02:03] <SteveA>  - next meeting
[02:03] <SteveA>  - activity reports
[02:03] <SteveA>  - morgs, debonzi (steve, kiko)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - jordi's rosetta advocacy meeting (jordi)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - production / staging (stub)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - switching to breezy (steve)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - shipit (salgado, kiko)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - rosetta / breezy language packs (kiko)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - launchpad on bazng pie status (lifeless)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - sysadmin requests outstanding (steve)
[02:03] <SteveA>  - three sentences
[02:03] <SteveA> 
[02:03] <SteveA> same time next week?
[02:03] <bradb> ouais
[02:03] <jblack> Aye
[02:03] <spiv> Sure.
[02:03] <SteveA> anyone who won't be here on the 22nd, say now
[02:03] <Kinnison> sr
[02:03] <cprov> ok
[02:04] <SteveA> great
[02:04] <sabdfl> i won't
[02:04] <stub> yer
[02:04] <kiko> I will
[02:04] <SteveA> sabdfl: we can have a call beforehand, if necessary
[02:04] <SteveA> next, morgs and debonzi
[02:05] <SteveA> morgs has decided to stop working on launchpad, and to persue other things.  he said to me:
[02:05] <SteveA> I have really enjoyed working with you guys and the whole team, and I've
[02:05] <SteveA> learned a lot about a lot of things. Thanks for the opportunity!
[02:05] <SteveA> 
[02:06] <SteveA> he also mentioned the company he's starting, www.penguinlabs.net, offering Ubuntu hardware compatibility testing
[02:06] <SteveA> to the South African IT channel for distributers and retailers interested in offering Ubuntu preloaded on PCs but lacking the skills to
[02:06] <jordi> sorry, I'm present
[02:06] <jordi> was called by boss at office
[02:06] <SteveA> manage the testing / certification themselves
[02:06] <SteveA> 
[02:06] <SteveA> i hope he'll pop in on irc once he's back from vacation.
[02:06] <SteveA> to say hi and stuff.
[02:06] <kiko> and debonzi's decided to move on to university, waves bye to us, and also said great things about the team. he's been on IRC on and off and this month has helped celso with some soyuz UI work, but that was his last month
[02:06] <jblack> :'(
[02:07] <jordi> really? oh :/
[02:07] <SteveA> hi martin
[02:07] <SteveA> moving on...
[02:07] <SteveA>  - jordi's rosetta advocacy meeting (jordi)
[02:07] <kiko> on a more positive note we have one QA intern who started this monday, and a new full-timer starting next week -- Steve, you have a phone call with him today or tomorrow 
[02:07] <SteveA> jordi wants to organize a meeting to talk about rosetta advocacy for upstreams 
[02:08] <SteveA> kiko: sure, tomorrow is best for me
[02:08] <kiko> sounds good
[02:08] <SteveA> jordi: want to say a few words?
[02:08] <jordi> ok, so I want to see when to have a short meeting to discuss how to promote lp/rosetta. I'm going to start mailing people about the existance of rosetta and inviting them to join
[02:08] <niemeyer> spam! :)
[02:08] <jordi> anyone interested or with ideas on how to do this/who to focus on first welcom
[02:08] <jordi> niemeyer: TOTALLY
[02:08] <jblack> jordi: When & where? 
[02:09] <jordi> niemeyer: see, that's one of my concerns. That it doesn't look like spam :)
[02:09] <kiko> jordi, question for you: how have the current upstreams been enjoying rosetta?
[02:09] <niemeyer> jordi: I think it might be a good idea to contact translators with recent contributions..
[02:09] <jamesh> are you going to target individuals or existing translation groups?
[02:09] <kiko> are there any showstoppers we might want to address before doing this, to avoid any bad PR (I tried Rosetta nad it sukced!1!)
[02:09] <jordi> jblack: any weekday evening (for europe) would suit me.
[02:09] <niemeyer> jordi: So that you're 100% sure that the person is interested.
[02:09] <sabdfl> jordi: Rosetta handles translation teams really well
[02:09] <jordi> as carlos might be good to have in, that needs to be starting next week
[02:09] <sabdfl> for example, we could create a team for "Arabeyes"
[02:10] <jblack> Ok. any day but lp meeting day can work for me.
[02:10] <niemeyer> jordi: Even if he's not the upstream, he'll pursue the adoption.
[02:10] <sabdfl> then they can be added to specific projects very easily
[02:10] <jordi> kiko: that's the kind of stuff we need to talk about too
[02:10] <kiko> right
[02:10] <sabdfl> even if just one or two translators from the team are using it, the others will then become familiar with it
[02:10] <kiko> right, agree with mark
[02:10] <jordi> kiko: there maybe be a few rough edges here and there, most involving perms stuff.
[02:10] <SteveA> we have lots of items in this meeting.  this item is about organising a rosetta advocacy meeting, rather than discussing rosetta advocacy right now.
[02:10] <kiko> however, I want to make sure it's a positive experience for the majority
[02:10] <sabdfl> jordi: i wrote most of the tgroups and perms stuff, so you can sent those issues to me
[02:11] <jordi> sabdfl: great
[02:11] <kiko> exports should improve a lot over this next week
[02:11] <sabdfl> improve? or happen at all *duck*
[02:11] <SteveA> hi sivang
[02:11] <jordi> heh
[02:11] <SteveA> so, jordi, when's the meeting?
[02:11] <jordi> ok, so say tuesday 20:00 UTC?
[02:11] <kiko> sabdfl, well, it's really a ratio thing -- we used to fail 6 out of 10, we now fail 1 or 2
[02:12] <kiko> (which isn't beautiful but.. better)
[02:12] <kiko> SteveA, move on
[02:12] <kiko> sounds good jordi 
[02:12] <kiko> I'll be around
[02:12] <SteveA>  - activity reports
[02:12] <jordi> k, Sept 20, 20.00 UTC
[02:12] <kiko> I AM THE DUDE
[02:12] <SteveA> who is up to date, and who's living in the past ?
[02:12] <stub> up to date
[02:13] <sabdfl> kiko: we should explore the idea of generating a base langpack from the package tarballs themselves
[02:13] <niemeyer> I'm missing the last few days.. I'm planning a single "sprint" entry.
[02:13] <mpool> uptodate
[02:13] <spiv> I'm in the past, and probably need to reset :(
[02:13] <mpt> up to date
[02:13] <jordi> I think I'm err, totally living in the past wrt activity reports
[02:13] <bradb> up to date
[02:13] <Kinnison> kiko: congrats
[02:13] <kiko> Kinnison, just because you chided me
[02:13] <lifeless> up todate
[02:13] <lifeless> event managed to tell the whole world torday
[02:14] <ddaa> uptodate
[02:14] <Kinnison> and for lifeless' next magical spelling trip of doom...
[02:14] <jblack> up to date (if I didn't bounce my mails -- again) 
[02:14] <SteveA> anyone didn't say yet?
[02:14] <SteveA> i'll follow up on people who are not up to date after the meeting
[02:14] <kiko> sabdfl, can you elaborate?
[02:14] <cprov> ot up
[02:14] <SteveA>  - production / staging (stub)
[02:15] <SteveA> next production rollout, status of staging please
[02:15] <stub> Staging is getting code updates daily as usual, but db syncs are disabled for whitespace fixup testing
[02:16] <stub> Production will be tagged from soon (I have something I want to land this time ;)), and rolled out Tuesday unless someone requests otherwise
[02:16] <stub> All producction systems are now running on Gangotri
[02:16] <lifeless> erm, moduo import
[02:16] <stub> Although Gina will need to still run on Macquarie when we switch her on (because that is where the archive mirror is)
[02:16] <lifeless> importd
[02:17] <stub> erm... and librarian and authserver...
[02:17] <lifeless> has the authserver moved ?
[02:17] <stub> but apart from that!
[02:17] <lifeless> haha
[02:17] <lifeless> so what you mean is 'the web ui is on gangotri' :)
[02:17] <SteveA> is there a doc somewhere that says where things are running?
[02:17] <stub> All the stuff runing as launchpad@macquarie has moved to launchpad@gangotri
[02:17] <kiko> yeah, there are wikipages on the servers
[02:17] <ddaa> anybody tried to shut down macquarie will have to justify breaking 3 days of python import processing...
[02:17] <lifeless> ddaa: wheres it t ?
[02:18] <lifeless> up to I mean
[02:18] <SteveA>  - switching to breezy (steve)
[02:18] <ddaa> lifeless: I told in the baz meeting, not yet quite at 50%
[02:18] <SteveA> i'm going to be switching my workstation to breezy over the weekend
[02:18] <kiko> I'll switch monday, no earlier
[02:18] <SteveA> i strongly urge all of you to switch soon
[02:18] <SteveA> to help out the distro team on testing, and to make sure that breezy works well on your hardware
[02:18] <Kinnison> Blergh, okay
[02:19] <spiv> I switched on the weekend, no major dramas.
[02:19] <Kinnison> November?
[02:19] <SteveA>  - shipit (salgado, kiko)
[02:19] <jamesh> if you switch to breezy, install the "python2.4-dbg" package
[02:19] <SteveA> detached symbols?
[02:20] <spiv> jamesh: Oh, that actually has useful debug symbols?
[02:20] <jamesh> yeah
[02:20] <spiv> Nice.
[02:20] <mpool> ok, will switch tomorrow
[02:20] <salgado> shipit is ready. we should be opening it today
[02:20] <kiko> fun
[02:20] <mpool> i asked stephane to test it
[02:20] <jamesh> spiv: yeah.  both a debug interpreter and debug symbols for the standard interpreter
[02:20] <kiko> salgado, you need the latest sexiness cherry-picked
[02:20] <salgado> kiko, stub already did that
[02:20] <SteveA> so, as i understand it, the idea is to get shipit running on shipitng.ubuntu.com (production database)
[02:20] <jblack> salgado: Is shipit giving an estimated shipdate a reasonable possibility? 
[02:21] <SteveA> test it out a bit, and then get elmo to switch over the old shipit holding page for the real shipit
[02:21] <kiko> stub is the dead kennedy
[02:21] <kiko> jblack, not yet
[02:21] <SteveA> kiko, salgado, stub: am i right?
[02:22] <SteveA> do we need to get elmo more closely involved in making this happen?
[02:22] <salgado> jblack, it will be possible to inform people when their orders are sent to the shipping companies. but from there it's not easy to predict the shipdate, AIUI
[02:22] <kiko> we need to make sure it happens
[02:22] <kiko> you requested it from elmo, SteveA, but... it's our funeral
[02:22] <kiko> more importantly, though
[02:22] <kiko> sabdfl, is tomorrow a good public launch day for shipit?
[02:23] <kiko> or mdz the undead
[02:23] <SteveA> kiko: make sure production has the shipit code, and i'll deal with the elmo side of it.
[02:23] <salgado> SteveA, production has all the necessary code
[02:24] <kiko> SteveA, production is shiny
[02:24] <SteveA> cool.  so, i'll call elmo after the meeting.
[02:24] <SteveA>  - rosetta / breezy language packs (kiko)
[02:24] <kiko> I generated a new set of language packs with stub's excellent help
[02:25] <kiko> they are in pitti's hands for testing and diff-generation
[02:25] <kiko> I'm praying they look better
[02:25] <kiko> I can explain the dynamics of the whitespace issue
[02:25] <kiko> we ran the whitespace fix (a set of fixes actually) on staging
[02:25] <kiko> this is why the db updates are frozen
[02:25] <kiko> I've generated packs
[02:26] <kiko> if pitti likes them, the plan should be run script on production, and that's it
[02:26] <kiko> anything else, or move on?
[02:26] <SteveA>  - launchpad on bazng pie status (lifeless)
[02:27] <lifeless> no pie
[02:27] <lifeless> pie will be going sao carlosward
[02:27] <kiko> says you! :)
[02:27] <lifeless> hey, I have launchpad in bzr, with history, right now :)
[02:27] <kiko> it won't be the last, anyway
[02:27] <mpool> way to go
[02:27] <SteveA> how far off are we from doing our launchpad things using shiny bzr goodness?
[02:27] <kiko> lifeless, that's not the same as having the team on bzr :-P
[02:28] <lifeless> anyone who wants to play, its in /home/warthogs/rocketfuel-bzr-demo
[02:28] <kiko> PQM for bzr?
[02:28] <lifeless> kiko: done already
[02:28] <kiko> and merging?
[02:28] <Kinnison> lifeless: does it exec it, or does it import it?
[02:28] <lifeless> kiko: done
[02:28] <SteveA> mirroring to chinstrap?
[02:28] <lifeless> kiko: imports
[02:28] <niemeyer> lifeless: The official move will probably happen on weave already, right?
[02:28] <lifeless> SteveA: mirroring - a push - is in the pipeline still
[02:28] <SteveA> okay
[02:28] <spiv> lifeless: /home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-bzr-demo/ you mean
[02:28] <SteveA> looking good
[02:29] <lifeless> weave is orthogonal
[02:29] <lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/bzr-baz2bzr/ <- the bzr tree needed to access rocketfuel in bzr
[02:29] <SteveA>  - sysadmin requests outstanding (steve)
[02:29] <spiv> What's the ETA for that getting merged to mainline bzr?
[02:29] <lifeless> this is not the final import, as it doesn't have 'x' bit support, nor gpg.
[02:29] <lifeless> spiv: close.
[02:29] <SteveA> other than the shipit related stuff, anything else that the sysadmins need to get to soon?
[02:30] <lifeless> anyway, see my wiki page for status :)
[02:30] <lifeless> SteveA: planet.bazaar.c.c
[02:30] <jblack> stevea: I'd  like planet.bazaar.canonical.com going
[02:30] <mpool> lifeless: i'd like to get my format change in before people switch
[02:30] <mpool> is that what you were saying about "one week of us testing it first"?
[02:30] <SteveA> jbailey: are the necessary issues in RT ?
[02:30] <jblack> do you mean this jbailey? :) 
[02:30] <lifeless> mpool: mmm, people cannot switch to bzr for lp until we have x bit support and gpg signing
[02:31] <SteveA> um, yeah
[02:31] <niemeyer> mpool: That was my question, thanks
[02:31] <lifeless> mpool: but people can _play_ with it now.
[02:31] <SteveA> ECOMPLETION
[02:31] <jblack> Yes, its in RT as #23, from sept 6.
[02:31] <jblack> I haven't heard any RFIs on it
[02:31] <SteveA> okay, i'll follow that up
[02:31] <mpool> lifeless: i know, my question was if our completion is
[02:32] <SteveA>  - launchpad-users (kiko)
[02:32] <mpool> xbit and gpg and symlinks and weaves
[02:32] <mpool> right?
[02:32] <mpool> and dependencies of them
[02:32] <lifeless> mpool: lets pick this up post meeting
[02:33] <kiko> yes
[02:33] <kiko> we have a launchpad-users mailing list
[02:33] <mpool> yep
[02:33] <kiko> it should be publically announced and open
[02:33] <kiko> question is: how do we want to use it?
[02:33] <kiko> I am hoping I, jordi and bradb have a good idea of how to move foward
[02:34] <SteveA> how does it relate to rosetta-users ?
[02:34] <kiko> of course anyone who has opinions is more than welcome -- #launchpad non-canonicals included
[02:34] <bradb> kiko: I'm planning on announcing malone-users around the same time as 1.0.
[02:34] <kiko> SteveA, I don't know -- do you?
[02:34] <kiko> bradb, does it exist yet?
[02:34] <bradb> yes
[02:34] <SteveA> do we need malone-users as well as launchpad-users? 
[02:34] <jbailey> SteveA: =)
[02:34] <niemeyer> kiko: Having it configurable inside launchpad itself would be interesting, if that's not what you were thinking about already
[02:35] <kiko> that's not what I was thinking :)
[02:35] <bradb> SteveA: we might not need launchpad-users
[02:35] <bradb> we could always wait and see and, if needed, create a launchpad-users list later.
[02:35] <kiko> where do people discuss launchpad itself?
[02:35] <SteveA> i usually talk about "the launchpad bug tracker" rather than "malone"
[02:35] <SteveA> we have a #launchpad
[02:35] <kiko> me too
[02:35] <SteveA> but no #malone
[02:36] <SteveA> so, i say, let's use launchpad-users
[02:36] <SteveA> and not use malone-users
[02:36] <bradb> kiko: IME people don't know where to draw the line between "Malone" and "Launchpad"; it's all Malone to them.
[02:36] <kiko> malone and rosetta are only really known to the inner circle
[02:36] <niemeyer> kiko: Even if just for startup, to get some quorum
[02:36] <bradb> kiko: for example, tseng thanked me yesterday for the enhancements to the team page which, of course, has zero to do with malone :)
[02:36] <kiko> niemeyer, it's a mailman list.. are you volunteering to do a proxy-controller for it? :-)
[02:37] <kiko> bradb, tseng is inner circle
[02:37] <SteveA> the domain is launchpad.net
[02:37] <kiko> soon you'll have upstreams and maintainers you never heard of
[02:37] <kiko> then what?
[02:37] <SteveA> not malone.net or malone.launchpad.net
[02:37] <niemeyer> kiko: It's just a matter of sending a message to the -request pretending to be the user
[02:37] <SteveA> so, we'll use launchpad-users as the mailing list, and not malone-users.  let's not have too many mailing lists.
[02:37] <niemeyer> kiko: I may certainly help with something fancier, if needed
[02:37] <kiko> niemeyer, hmmm. but who would I spam^H^H^H^Hsubscribe?
[02:37] <bradb> in any case, i'm only speaking from my experience.
[02:37] <SteveA> we need to build a community, not fragment a community.
[02:37] <spiv> The current website emphasises the "launchpad" name much more than "malone" or "rosetta".
[02:38] <jblack> imho, unless malone is going to be a seperable item in the future, it doesn't make sense to have unique branding. 
[02:38] <kiko> bradb, yeah, I know, but don't you think that your experience is biased towards motu? :)
[02:38] <niemeyer> kiko: Whoever clicks on "Subscribe the shiny new launchpad-users list now!"
[02:38] <sabdfl> kiko: tomorrow's good, yes
[02:38] <bradb> kiko: yes.
[02:38] <kiko> sabdfl, wondy
[02:38] <kiko> niemeyer, on the homepage? :-)
[02:38] <kiko> there should be a launchpad/+gethelp page, but mpt knows that :)
[02:38] <niemeyer> kiko: On login, for instance
[02:39] <mpt> I do?
[02:39] <mpt> I do.
[02:39] <sabdfl> lifeless: remember, they need your spethial bzr branch for symlink support
[02:39] <SteveA> kiko: anything more on this item?
[02:39] <bradb> are we going to keep rosetta-users running then?
[02:39] <SteveA> yes
[02:39] <bradb> i don't see why it makes sense to have rosetta-users, but not malone-users :)
[02:39] <lifeless> sabdfl: yes, I told them :)
[02:39] <SteveA> i do.  we can talk about it later.
[02:39] <bradb> ok
[02:39] <SteveA> kiko: anything more on this item?
[02:40] <kiko> SteveA, nope.
[02:40] <SteveA> okay
[02:40] <SteveA> three sentences.  send them now!
[02:40] <jblack> PAST: advocacy
[02:40] <jblack> FUTURE: advocacy
[02:40] <Kinnison> DONE: Sprinted more, recovered from sprint. Buildd slave chroot tools done. Publisher now fully operational including Source generation, d-i support and Release file generation
[02:40] <salgado> DONE: ShipitNG, some basicvoting, training the new intern
[02:40] <salgado> TODO: ShipItNG: exports, allow admins to place orders in behalf of other people, more training
[02:40] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[02:40] <Kinnison> TODO: Upload handler UI contract finalisation and then more work on process-upload.py
[02:40] <Kinnison> BLOCKED: Nothing currently (yay)
[02:40] <bradb> DONE: Got the URL branch into code review queue. Wrote some code to de-robotize form error messages in pages linked to from the bug page.
[02:40] <jblack> BLOCKERS: already listed
[02:40] <BjornT> DONE: made the bug search form use new listing style. reviews. some
[02:40] <cprov> DONE: back from UK local setup after two week away, review builddUI and buildd-scoring
[02:40] <BjornT> work on predefined bug reports. 
[02:40] <BjornT> TODO: last touches of MaloneSearchResult. PreDefinedBugReports. reviews.
[02:40] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <cprov> TODO: missed bits for builddUI (context_menu and reasonable content) buildd/uploader integration.
[02:40] <cprov> BLOCKED: none
[02:40] <bradb> TODO: Nag BjornT. Land the URL branch. See what the status of LP menus is; get back into finishing that for Malone. Stealt UI improvements, time permitting.
[02:40] <bradb> BLOCKED: URL changes review. (BjornT)
[02:40] <jamesh> DONE: put gpg keyring trust analyser up for review, fix timing issues with some DB tests, implement the database side of the LP request timeout code.
[02:40] <jamesh> TODO: specs scheduling thing, get lifeless's bzr changes rolled out to pending-reviews page, code reviews
[02:40] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <niemeyer> DONE: Started new rpm sourcerer backend, pair programming with Scott on HCT.
[02:40] <niemeyer> TODO: More pair programming, start work on bzr next week.
[02:40] <niemeyer> BLOCKED: Nope
[02:40] <mpt> DONE: LaunchpadIntegration cleanup, bug fixing and reporting, ticket system cleanup
[02:40] <mpt> TODO: finish ticket system cleanup, Rosetta dehorkage, LaunchpadMenus, more bug fixes
[02:40] <ddaa> DONE: BranchDataStorage London sprint
[02:40] <ddaa> TODO: samba SVN import, jamesh races review, lifeless pybaz review, finish importd-archivelocation, finish sprint work
[02:40] <ddaa> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <mpt> HINDRANCES: baz slow as ever, looking forward to bzr
[02:41] <kiko> DONE: reviews, email crackin, shipit and rosetta-langpacks
[02:41] <kiko> TODO: more reviews, get shipit out the door and the specs in the wiki
[02:41] <kiko> BLOCKED: just too many damned things thrown at me at once
[02:41] <Kinnison> baz goes uberquick if you put the effort into flcow
[02:41] <SteveA> DONE: reviews, management, started publisher refactoring, menus delivery work, launchpad availability work
[02:41] <SteveA> TODO: menus delivery, finish publisher refactoring, more launchpad availability work
[02:41] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[02:41] <SteveA> 
[02:41] <Kinnison> (where uberquick is approx 10s for a diff on a launchpad tree)
[02:41] <stub> DONE: BrowserNotificationMessages, script logging stuff
[02:41] <stub> TODO: BrowserNotificationMessages
[02:41] <stub> BLOCKED: Nothing
[02:41] <kiko> stub, is that what you're wanting in production next week? :)
[02:41] <mpool> DONE: 9/12 test suites passing with weave
[02:42] <mpool> TODO: rest of fetch, merge, & upgrade
[02:42] <mpool> BLOCKED: no
[02:42] <lifeless> DONE: baz2bzr, bzr symlink support, bzr integration of patches, sprinting
[02:42] <lifeless> TODO: x bit support, upgrade to breezy, gpg signing, async demo for bzr developers.
[02:42] <jordi> PAST: email processing, helping ubuntu-doc with their xml > po stuff, other templates
[02:42] <lifeless> BLOCKED: nope
[02:42] <jordi> TODO: advocacy, email processing
[02:42] <SteveA> bradb: when can people start using BrowserNotificationMessages ?
[02:42] <lifeless> mpool: sure thats not 9/1 ? :)
[02:42] <jordi> BLOCKED: nothing new
[02:42] <lifeless> bahm 9/11
[02:42] <stub> kiko: I'd like to land the script logging stuff - I just need to repair some tests I broke, hopefully without too many changes requiring rereview
[02:42] <bradb> SteveA: I don't know what that is.
[02:42] <SteveA> jblack: can you organize getting schooltool imported into bzr sometime?
[02:42] <mpool> 9/1?
[02:43] <mpool> oh
[02:43] <spiv> DONE: reviewing, some work on rosetta export issues, caught up with some old branches and merged them.
[02:43] <spiv> TODO: Finish of rosetta export debugging!  Reviews.  AuthServerCaching.
[02:43] <spiv> BLOCKED: No.
[02:43] <mpool> fairly sure :)
[02:43] <SteveA> stub: when can people start using BrowserNotificationMessages ?
[02:43] <SteveA> bradb: i was meaning to ask stub.
[02:43] <stub> When I finished it?
[02:43] <jblack> Sure. Do you have a contact you'd like to suggest? 
[02:43] <SteveA> jbailey: #schooltool
[02:43] <SteveA> jbailey: sorry
[02:43] <SteveA> jblack: #schooltool, talk to one of the lithuanians
[02:44] <jblack> He needs a new nick. 
[02:44] <Kinnison> no, stevea just needs to pay more attention
[02:44] <jblack> Nah. Everyone does it. :) 
[02:44] <stub> I've needed to divert from the spec design somewhat which has slowed things down somewhat
[02:44] <SteveA> okay... anyone blocked and not been dealt with?
[02:44] <mpt> No, SteveA just needs a smarter IRC client
[02:44] <SteveA> stub: i'd be interested to hear about the changes sometime
[02:45] <SteveA> we have time for a short "countdown of doom"
[02:45] <SteveA> 6
[02:45] <SteveA> 5
[02:45] <lifeless> DOOM
[02:45] <SteveA> 4
[02:45] <SteveA> 3
[02:45] <kiko> d00m
[02:45] <SteveA> 2
[02:45] <SteveA> 1
[02:45] <lifeless> DooM
[02:45] <mpt> oom
[02:45] <SteveA> END OF MEETING
[02:45] <niemeyer> Ahhhhhhhh
[02:45] <SteveA> thanks everyone
[02:45] <Kinnison> <kaboom style="earth-shattering" />
[02:45] <lifeless> mpool: so, what were you asking ?
[02:46] <bradb> short and sweet, baby
[02:46] <sivang> yeah, something like it =_
[02:46] <Keybuk> <fx:kaboom fx:style="sound" sound:volume="earth-shattering" xmlns:fx="http://purl.com/xml/fx/1.0" xmlns:sound="http://purl.com/xml/sound/1.0" />
[02:46] <Kinnison> Keybuk: screw you, XML hippie
[02:46] <jbailey> jblack: At this rate, I'll never beleive you're mark shuttleworth, clearly noone else does.  Perhaps you could come with ID saying that you're Jeff Bailey?
[02:46] <sivang> LOL
[02:46] <jblack> LOL!!
[02:47] <ddaa> Keybuk: IIRC namespace of attributes default to namespace of elements :P
[02:47] <ddaa> I mean of containing element
[02:47] <Keybuk> ddaa: no, namespace attributes default to no namespace which the parsing application may construde to be the namespace of the element if they wish
[02:47] <SteveA> ddaa: basically, XML namespaces on attributes sucks...
[02:48] <Keybuk> it's generally considered bad style to write formal XML without a namespace on the attribute if the attribute is selected from a particular schema
[02:48] <ddaa> all the xslt I have seen use xsl:element but never xsl:attribute...
[02:49] <kiko> bradb, that bug I asked you about, it's been reported as https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2291
[02:49] <Keybuk> you realise you're pedanting a joke?
[02:49] <ddaa> Yes :)
[02:50] <kiko> salgado, did you see marilize's email? :-(
[02:51] <salgado> kiko, I'm reading it now
[02:51] <salgado> kiko, seems like she wasn't following previous discussions?
[02:52] <kiko> sorta, but she's pointed out two pretty silly bugs we kept
[02:52] <cprov> kiko: hold on for breezy upgrade, I'm finishing the mirror, ok ?
[02:53] <Keybuk> bradb: apparently I'm supposed to beat you up to find out what the hell bug-release-targeting-pages.txt is doing
[02:53] <salgado> kiko, the first two items?
[02:53] <kiko>       return plural.split(';', 1)[1] .split('=',1)[1] .split(';', 1)[0] .strip()
[02:53] <kiko> CRAAAAAAAAACK
[02:53] <kiko> how can anyone expect that is going to work?
[02:53] <kiko> [reliably] 
[02:54] <sabdfl> stub: w.r.t. landing, i have a branch, currently under review by jamesh, that i hope to land today, that needs to be in the production rollout
[02:54] <SteveA> um
[02:54] <SteveA> kiko: that looks like it would be better expressed as a regex
[02:54] <kiko> sabdfl, I can't be trusted with >2K diffs, I simply don't have more than two hours of uninterrupted time
[02:54] <salgado> kiko!
[02:54] <sabdfl> kiko: np, jamesh is on it
[02:55] <salgado> kiko, what descriptions are we going to use for the standard options?
[02:55] <sabdfl> stub: will you ping me when you are planning to branch? i will merge up to that point of rf, and then only merge from the branch, so that mine can land directly on what will go to production
[02:55] <sabdfl> tomorrow, if needed
[02:56] <stub> sabdfl: ok. Please let me know the rf patch number when it lands and I'll tag that (assuming it lands today or tomorrow)
[02:56] <kiko> salgado, uh, hmmm?
[02:56] <SteveA> jamesh: how is that "max request time" work going?
[02:57] <sabdfl> stub: we can do it differently
[02:57] <sabdfl> let me know when *you* branch, and i won't merge in rf past that point
[02:57] <sabdfl> then mine should land cleanly on yours
[02:58] <stub> sabdfl: ok.
[03:03] <jordi> I'm leaving office
[03:03] <jordi> laters
[03:04] <kiko> bradb, BjornT?
[03:04] <kiko> PATH_INFO : /++vh++https:launchpad.net:443/++/malone/bugs/308/people/268/+edit
[03:04] <kiko> see anything wrong with that?
[03:04] <kiko> is it +people?
[03:05] <bradb> kiko: It looks like you can no longer "edit" subscribers
[03:06] <kiko> no
[03:06] <kiko> well
[03:06] <bradb> kiko: That would probably be something from what I believe was sabdfl's change to the subscription fu
[03:06] <kiko> the /people/ traversal is busted
[03:06] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1126786415.860.140780313203
[03:06] <salgado> kiko, expired
[03:07] <kiko> why do these errors expire so quicky?
[03:07] <bradb> kiko: It doesn't look "busted" to me. It just looks like a 404.
[03:07] <kiko>     *  Module canonical.launchpad.webapp.metazcml, line 445, in publishTraverse
[03:07] <kiko>       raise NotFound(self.context, name)
[03:07] <kiko> NotFound: Object: <Bug at 0x551a5d0>, name: u'people'
[03:07] <kiko> okay
[03:07] <bradb> kiko: yup
[03:07] <kiko> just wanted to know
[03:07] <kiko> so you can't edit subscribers
[03:07] <kiko> only subscribe or unsubscribe?
[03:07] <bradb> yes, by the looks of it
[03:08] <SteveA> jordi: i'm forwarding you a message sent to the error reports list
[03:08] <BjornT> yeah, there's only one kind of subscription now
[03:08] <kiko> and there's a separate page to confirm subscribing? craaack
[03:08] <SteveA> jordi: it is from someone who wants to use rosetta, and is confused about the apparrent "GPG keys" requirement when getting a launchpad account
[03:09] <kiko> SteveA, I filed that bug, let me fix that today with mpt
[03:09] <SteveA> cool
[03:09] <kiko> I would not use launchpad if I landed there first thing
[03:09] <bradb> kiko: the actions portlet, you mean?
[03:09] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  db tables for sprints (patch-2415: mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com)
[03:09] <kiko> stub, I need help :-(
[03:09] <SteveA> kiko: btw, i'm working on the person / team actions portlet in a branch
[03:09] <kiko> can you assist me quickly?
[03:09] <SteveA> kiko: it uses menus now ;-)
[03:10] <kiko> SteveA, ah, thanks for the heads-up, we'll leave that alone
[03:10] <stub> eh?
[03:10] <bradb> BjornT: Do you think you'll finish the URL changes review today, btw?
[03:11] <BjornT> bradb: probably tomorrow, don't feel like dedicating the rest of the day for reviewing.
[03:12] <bradb> ok, thanks
[03:13] <salgado> stub, can you run two selects on production for me?
[03:14] <stub> ?
[03:14] <salgado> stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filebffHDd.html
[03:15] <salgado> stub, kiko gave me a traceback, and I think these two queries will help me to find what the problem was
[03:17] <kiko> sabdfl, ping -> privmsg
[03:18] <Kinnison> He's in a meeting in the meeting room
[03:19] <stub> salgado: Both of those queries returned 0 rows
[03:21] <Keybuk> hmm
[03:21] <Keybuk> Running FUNCTIONAL tests from /home/scott/co/canonical/launchpad/launchpad/lib
[03:21] <Keybuk> Parsing ftesting.zcml
[03:21] <Keybuk> HELP  I'M  STUCK  IN  A  DOC  TEST  AND  I  CAN'T  GET  OUT!
[03:21] <salgado> stub, ta
[03:34] <kiko> Kinnison, cprov: help
[03:34] <kiko>       Buildd slave chroot tool. r=spiv
[03:35] <Kinnison> kiko: tool for managing chroots for buildd slaves
[03:35] <cprov> kiko: a tool for creating chroots automatically
[03:35] <Kinnison> kiko: basically an automated debootstrap+fixup+mkdirs+apt-get+usermods+stuff+tidyup+tar
[03:37] <jamesh> SteveA: sorry.  was getting some food. the canonical.database.adapter part of the request timeout stuff is on the pending reviews page
[03:37] <SteveA> ok
[03:37] <SteveA> i'll look
[03:38] <Nafallo> the translation-karma was never nuked? :-)
[03:40] <stub> The fix for stopping the karma explosion hasn't landed yet, so no point
[03:41] <Kinnison> kiko: claro?
[03:41] <Nafallo> ah, oki. carlos promised me this would be done tuesday or something ;-)
[03:41] <kiko> Kinnison, sim, a explicao do cprov ficou melhor.
[03:41] <Nafallo> last tuesday that is.
[03:42] <cprov> Kinnison: kiko: what ?! ehe are you switching languages ? 
[03:43] <Kinnison> kiko: desculpe
[03:43] <cprov> kiko: in fact, it is a very handy tool for creating or modifying chroots
[03:44] <kiko> Kinnison started it!
[03:44] <kiko> I said that cprov's explanation was clearer :)
[03:44] <cprov> Kinnison: no worries, later we will extend you vocabulary for aranha fancy features naming ;)
[03:45] <Kinnison> kiko: I'm improving :-)
[03:48] <Kinnison> sabdfl: so noone will know you're afraid?
[03:48] <SteveA> jamesh: reviewing now
[03:49] <bradb> so, can someone confirm that upgrading to breezy via dist-upgrade isn't very painful?
[03:50] <stub> Nafallo: Hmm... I could be wrong. Maybe the fix did land and nobody told me ;)
[03:50] <stub> kiko: Do you know if Carlos landed this?
[03:51] <kiko> stub, let me check.
[03:51] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[03:51] <kiko> stub, not yet.
[03:51] <kiko> Nafallo, I'm reviewing the patch, but it's unfortunately long :-/
[03:52] <lifeless> cprov: ping
[03:52] <cprov> lifeless: pong
[03:52] <Nafallo> dang. I thought the nuke was withdrawn or something :-P
[03:52] <lifeless> Kinnison: says something about a tac-test-handler
[03:52] <lifeless> does it import anything from twisted ?
[03:52] <Kinnison> cprov: basically, does anything, to your knowledge import twisted into the test processes?
[03:53] <cprov> lifeless: don;t precisely remember, but I think it doesn't, just wrap .tac files throught popen
[03:53] <Kinnison> cprov: can you check for us?
[03:53] <cprov> Kinnison: yes
[03:54] <sabdfl> salgado: will those mass-import karma entries be disregarded after three months, as spec'd?
[03:54] <sabdfl> or should we delete them?
[03:54] <sabdfl> stub: ^?
[03:55] <lifeless> thanks
[03:55] <stub> We should delete them, because the table has 18million rows for no good reason
[03:55] <salgado> sabdfl, (oldpoints * 0.2)
[03:55] <salgado> sabdfl, that's what we use for actions older than 3 months
[03:56] <sabdfl> salgado: we should totally ignore anything older than 1 yr
[03:56] <cprov> lifeless: the TacTestSetup class does not require twisted
[03:56] <sabdfl> stub: is there any way to see which points are from translations imported, and which from translations done through rosetta?
[03:56] <lifeless> cprov: good. we're searching for something incorrectly importing twisted, which is breaking a merge test
[03:57] <stub> sabdfl: I don't think so (and neither did Carlos when I asked)
[03:57] <salgado> sabdfl, that's easy to do. I'll file a bug about it, so I won't forget
[03:57] <cprov> lifeless: yeah, I'm related, PQM simply forgets my last 3 trial 
[03:58] <sabdfl> stub: but you can identify the ones for translations, right?
[03:59] <stub> Yes - there are two karma action types we need to strip out.
[03:59] <sabdfl> mpt not around?
[03:59] <lifeless> spiv: ping?
[03:59] <sabdfl> stub: what are they?
[04:02] <stub> sabdfl: 13 & 14
[04:02] <sabdfl> kiko: where's mpt?
[04:03] <kiko> upstairs
[04:07] <sabdfl> could you ask him to hop online please?
[04:09] <lifeless> ddaa: ping
[04:09] <ddaa> yeah?
[04:09] <lifeless> ddaa: can you dig up the patch you did to hct to make it force pybaz to non-twisted mode ?
[04:11] <ddaa> import pybaz
[04:11] <ddaa> import pybaz.backends.forkexec
[04:11] <ddaa> pybaz.backend.spawning_strategy = pybaz.backends.forkexec.PyArchSpawningStrategy
[04:11] <ddaa> Is that what you are asking?
[04:12] <lifeless> thanks
[04:14] <ddaa> lifeless: I saw your ping in #bzr, but I was out to lunch and just came back.
[04:17] <SteveA> jamesh: reviewed, approved with comments.  mailed to you.
[04:18] <lifeless> ddaa: no probs, was this
[04:19] <ddaa> BTW, this API sucks. Next time I have a strategy selection knob, I think I'll make it something like pybaz.backend.set_spawning_strategy('forkexec')
[04:19] <ddaa> lifeless: what do you think?
[04:20] <lifeless> ddaa: thats the registry pattern, and its good
[04:20] <ddaa> I was uncertain at the time, but I think a registry is what's needed in such cases.
[04:23] <sabdfl> kiko: mpt?
[04:24] <kiko> sorry, was upstairs -- he attended meeting from home, should be in shortly
[04:27] <sabdfl> kiko: what time is it over there?
[04:28] <kiko> 11:28
[04:28] <kiko> I'll talk to him.
[04:29] <sabdfl> we have too many fricken underlines on our pages
[04:30] <sabdfl> there's a reason the plone guys do not underline links in portlets
[04:30] <sabdfl> http://localhost:8086/malone/bugs/1
[04:30] <SteveA> yeah
[04:30] <SteveA> i can describe what happened
[04:30] <SteveA> first, no links in portlets were underlined
[04:30] <sabdfl> the correct strting point
[04:30] <SteveA> i pointed out that this is fine when the links are all uniformly there, like in the actions portlet
[04:30] <sabdfl> what's the way to turn off link underlining on a specific <a ?
[04:31] <SteveA> but, when there's an informational portlet with a single link in it
[04:31] <SteveA> it is hard to see that there is a link there
[04:31] <sabdfl> not really 
[04:31] <sabdfl> it's a different colour
[04:31] <bradb> sabdfl: I asked mpt about that the other day too. Amazingly, he said all those underlines were /intended/ ;)
[04:31] <SteveA> and this is a problem when that's the only link to the functionality
[04:31] <ddaa> sabdfl: class, id, anything usable by a css selector
[04:31] <SteveA> i missed that link when i was trying to do stuff in launchpad
[04:31] <SteveA> i'm not colour blind
[04:31] <SteveA> i vaguely know what launchpad is meant to do
[04:32] <SteveA> so, i think the answer is to not have any links underlined in portlets, as the rule
[04:32] <SteveA> and to underline easily-missed links in informational portlets
[04:32] <sabdfl> and why did lists suddenly get so much more separation?
[04:33] <sabdfl> they need to be more compact
[04:33] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2140
[04:34] <kiko> sabdfl, it's hard to see -- SteveA is right.
[04:35] <kiko> sabdfl, style="text-decoration: none" 
[04:36] <ddaa> style attributes are bad style :)
[04:38] <bradb> They're ok if you really only want to style one element in a specific way.
[04:38] <SteveA> lifeless: got a sec?
[04:38] <lifeless> sure
[04:38] <lifeless> just upgrading anyway
[04:39] <sabdfl> kiko: i had this fight a long time ago with mpt, but let him go ahead anyway and introduce the underlines
[04:39] <Kinnison> sabdfl: ready for the hct assembly conversation?
[04:39] <sabdfl> Kinnison: just about
[04:40] <kiko> I wonder what UI experts say about many links put together
[04:40] <lifeless> SteveA: ... ?
[04:41] <SteveA> privmessage
[04:41] <SteveA> kiko: we had this discussion, with ui experts and testing on zope3-dev years ago.
[04:41] <stub> erm.... someone decided it would be a good idea to put our closed automatic error report mailing list as our contact address on https://launchpad.net/feedback :-/
[04:42] <SteveA> kiko: came to exactly the conclusion i said above.
[04:42] <stub> So people will have been emailing and getting their messages bounced
[04:43] <SteveA> um, no
[04:43] <SteveA> eaten
[04:43] <SteveA> discarded
[04:49] <kiko> stub, SteveA: aren't they just held?
[04:49] <SteveA> no
[04:49] <mpt> stub: Does the offline error message use lib/canonical/launchpad/offline.html directly, or do I need to ping you if I change it?
[04:49] <SteveA> error reports that aren't from one of our systems, that don't contain the word "Bug" (case insensitively) in the subject line, go to /dev/null
[04:50] <kiko> SteveA, stub: well, I just gome some email through it, and I often do..
[04:50] <stub> kiko: I just manually processed that one
[04:50] <SteveA> ah..
[04:51] <zyga> hello :)
[04:51] <kiko> so they aren't discarded, as I said
[04:51] <SteveA> i'm thinking of the externally published "system error, mail this address" address
[04:51] <kiko> :-P
[04:51] <stub> Anyway - it is broken!
[04:51] <SteveA> not the actualy mailing list address
[04:51] <stub> kiko: They are. I have discarded a number
[04:51] <SteveA> the address for external use has that "bug" in the subject thing on it
[04:52] <kiko> stub, manually.
[04:52] <stub> I'm setting it to automatic
[04:53] <bradb> sabdfl: I think I may have found an ordering problem in xx-specs-07-dependencies.txt.
[04:53] <bradb> sabdfl: expected output shows:
[04:53] <bradb>     - ...Support Native SVG Objects...
[04:53] <bradb>     - ...Support E4X in EcmaScript...
[04:53] <bradb>     - ...This specification...
[04:53] <bradb>     - ...Support &lt;canvas&gt; Objects...
[04:53] <bradb> But in actual, E4X comes before Native
[04:54] <kiko> stub, well, then we need to change launchpad -- don't do that before, or we will throw away user's email. 
[04:55] <kiko> users'
[04:58] <kiko> SteveA, don't you agree?
[05:01] <SteveA> i think it is okay for users to get bounces from that after we've changed the advertised email address.
[05:01] <kiko> right
[05:01] <kiko> but we haven't changed it yet.
[05:02] <SteveA> riht.  so as you said.
[05:04] <SteveA> mpt: ping
[05:06] <mpt> SteveA: pong
[05:07] <SteveA> mpt: do you have any menus work i should merge from?
[05:08] <mpt> SteveA: Not yet
[05:08] <SteveA> mpt: okay.  i'll proceed with app menus along the lines we discussed last night.
[05:08] <mpt> Sorry, I've been waiting for baz for the last 29 minutes
[05:08] <SteveA> gah
[05:09] <SteveA> things will be better under our new bazng overlords
[05:09] <mpt> it finished!
[05:10] <mpt> SteveA: ok, so which ones would you like me to do?
[05:10] <SteveA> what tree do you have?
[05:10] <SteveA> baz tree-id please
[05:11] <mpt> mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--menus--0509--base-0
[05:11] <SteveA> and what was it branched off?
[05:12] <mpt> mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
[05:12] <SteveA> really?
[05:12] <SteveA> not from my menus branch?
[05:12] <mpt> I'm merging in from that now
[05:12] <SteveA> steve.alexander@canonical.com/launchpad--Menus--0--patch-81
[05:13] <SteveA> you'll want to make sure you get up to that patch level
[05:13] <mpt> ok
[05:18] <lifeless> brb
[05:25] <bradb> While I'm waiting for baz branch...has anyone ever mentioned the idea of LP developer blogs?
[05:26] <salgado> BjornT, SteveA, might you guys have some time today for us to sort out the pending questions re: basicvoting--1's review?
[05:26] <SteveA> salgado: i have 1.5 hours more before i go to the gym
[05:27] <SteveA> BjornT: seeing you at pov tomorrow?
[05:27] <BjornT> SteveA: sure, 10am?
[05:27] <SteveA> ok
[05:28] <salgado> SteveA, let's do it now, then?
[05:29] <SteveA> okay, shortly
[05:29] <SteveA> i'll ping
[05:29] <salgado> okay
[05:30] <bradb> So, one thing I think we could do more of is focussing on Launchpad users. Not just at a software development/UI level, but at a user experience level.
[05:30] <bradb> I think developer blogs might be able to help in that direction. Previewing new features, teaching users how to use existing features. Helping users kick ass, basically.
[05:31] <bradb> People like to kick ass. Kicking ass is fun.
[05:32] <bradb> There are various examples of people doing this with great success, e.g. 37signals, makers of Basecamp, the hugely popular project management software built with Ruby on Rails.
[05:33] <bradb> 37signals has 1. a developer blog: http://www.37signals.com/svn/ and 2. product forums, like: http://www.backpackit.com/forum/
[05:34] <SteveA> salgado: i'm going to take a workrave for a few mins, then i'll ping about the voting diffs
[05:35] <salgado> okay
[05:37] <jordi> SteveA: but AFAIK, there's no need for a gpg key to use lp, right?
[05:38] <salgado> jordi, right
[05:38] <jordi> ok
[05:38] <jordi> I'll reply.
[05:38] <kiko> jordi, I'm going to fix that TODAY
[05:38] <SteveA> jordi: yep.  it is a matter of confusing workflow on joining
[05:38] <SteveA> jordi: so, we i to reply, i'd apologise for the confusing workflow, check if they have a launchpad account set up properly, and welcome them to rosetta
[05:39] <SteveA> in some order or other
[05:39] <jordi> kiko: oh so there's a bug about lp currently requiring it, or it's just appearing to require it?
[05:39] <jordi> right
[05:39] <kiko> yeah, I filed it IIRC
[05:39] <jordi> NO WONDER IT'S KIKOS FAULT
[05:40] <jordi> kiko: did you want anything for me yesterday night, way too late? :)
[05:40] <kiko> yes
[05:41] <kiko> good that you reminded me
[05:41] <mpt> bradb: I think, first get a top-quality product (like Basecamp), *then* start writing about it
[05:41] <mpt> Fixing bugs (and implementing missing features) is probably a greater return on investment at the moment :-)
[05:42] <bradb> mpt: LP development is, generally speaking, pretty disconnected from the people using the software, IMHO. It would be interesting to consider ways of focussing more on the users, IMHO.
[05:43] <bradb> mpt: Basecamp, for example: "top-quality"? ish. But then, they've kept things ridiculously simple, and they keep in constant contact with their users.
[05:45] <bradb> There's a really interesting person in the blogosphere who focusses more in-depth on "creating passionate users" (and why that's so important): http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/
[05:47] <bradb> She also advocates "teaching" users as one of the best ways to help create passionate users. Passionate users evangelize. Passionate users sell your product for you. Sure, we're not selling inflatable plastic japanese furniture here, but then, she's not talking about those kinds of products either.
[05:47] <bradb> Anyway, that's my $0.02 to how we can help get people excited about LP. baz switch just finished.
[05:50] <mpt> bradb: But they didn't start until February, long after they already had a good product.
[05:50] <mpt> (37 Signals, I mean)
[05:51] <kiko> jordi, here:
[05:51] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1545
[05:51] <kiko> jordi, do I need to do anything to help this guy out
[05:54] <kiko> or are you okay?
[05:55] <jordi> kiko: as for now he's the only one, he'll have to join Ubuntu translators without creating a team.
[05:55] <jordi> When there's more, we'll create the team
[05:55] <jordi> so, in short, and him to the group
[05:56] <kiko> add him to which group? ubuntu translators?
[05:56] <bradb> mpt: I don't know for certain one way or the other if Feb was the first time they ever started running a blog, nor if it was an intentional delay. The CUP blog above (seriously fanboyed by 37signals, btw) mentions that "teaching" users is more important than, yes, usability even. :)
[05:56] <jordi> kiko: yes
[05:58] <kiko> jamesh:
[05:58] <kiko>     *  Module zope.interface.adapter, line 461, in queryMultiAdapter
[05:58] <kiko>       return factory(*objects)
[05:58] <kiko>     * Module canonical.launchpad.browser.cal, line 763, in __init__
[05:58] <kiko>       self._subscriptions = ICalendarSubscriptionSubset(user)
[05:58] <kiko>     * Module zope.interface.interface, line 698, in __call__
[05:58] <kiko>       raise TypeError("Could not adapt", obj, self)
[05:58] <kiko> TypeError: ('Could not adapt', None, <InterfaceClass canonical.launchpad.interfaces.cal.ICalendarSubscriptionSubset>)
[05:59] <kiko> bradb, I just saw an error with +upstreamtask generating some invalid SQL, but lost it
[05:59] <bradb> kiko: How do I reproduce it?
[06:00] <salgado> kiko, is that when you try to subscribe to a calendar?
[06:00] <kiko> salgado, not sure, let me check.
[06:01] <kiko> salgado, /++vh++https:launchpad.net:443/++/products/newton/+calendar/+subscribe
[06:01] <salgado> maybe it's the same problem described in https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2166
[06:01] <salgado> yes, it probably is
[06:01] <kiko> cool
[06:01] <kiko> bradb, no clue, picked it up in /errors, but it said +upstreamtask
[06:02] <kiko> salgado: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-translators/ isn't listing the members -- is that the bug you fixed?
[06:02] <bradb> kiko: Hm, sorry, not much I can do without knowing what error occurred or how to reproduce it.
[06:03] <kiko> bradb, pester people for access to the logs
[06:03] <bradb> kiko: Why are error messages being removed so quickly?
[06:03] <kiko> no clue
[06:03] <kiko> SteveA and stub would know, though
[06:03] <salgado> kiko, yes, all members are deactivated
[06:03] <kiko> wow, true
[06:03] <kiko> how did that happen
[06:04] <kiko> jordi, why are all ubuntu translators.. oh.
[06:04] <kiko> jordi, do I need to add him to the ubuntu translation team?
[06:04] <kiko> salgado, yeah, but it still includes a header, which is weird, right?
[06:04] <salgado> kiko, right. I forgot to check when there's no members
[06:04] <SteveA> bradb: errors are removed from /errors on restart.  and also, there are two production servers.
[06:05] <SteveA> so, one /errors for each.
[06:05] <jordi> kiko: yes, for the "sa" team.
[06:05] <jordi> kiko: ie, instead of adding ubuntu-l10n-sa, you add him directly.
[06:05] <jordi> when he successfully creates a more than 1 person team, we'll switch that to a team, not a person,
[06:06] <kiko> yep
[06:07] <kiko> jordi@canonical.com?
[06:07] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  launchpad-error-reports is a CLOSED mailing list (and always has been!) (patch-2416: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
[06:08] <jordi> kiko: what for?
[06:08] <bradb> SteveA: In what way is /errors affected by their being two production servers?
[06:08] <jordi> that's my address
[06:08] <bradb> there, even
[06:08] <kiko> jordi, CC:
[06:08] <kiko> thanks.
[06:08] <jordi> but oh :D
[06:08] <jordi> ok
[06:08] <kiko> you never emailed me :-P
[06:09] <jordi> NO WAY
[06:09] <SteveA> bradb: you'll see randomly one of the /errors on each request
[06:09] <SteveA> or something like that
[06:09] <jordi> what does "fud" mean anyway
[06:09] <SteveA> depending on affinity settings 
[06:09] <bradb> SteveA: How hard would it be to fix that?
[06:09] <kiko-fud> fear
[06:09] <kiko-fud> uncertainty
[06:09] <SteveA> fix what?
[06:09] <kiko-fud> doubt
[06:09] <kiko-fud> in other words
[06:09] <kiko-fud> LUNCH
[06:09] <kiko-fud> SteveA, stop losing errors, or post the logs publically (PLEASE, FOR THE 10000th TIME :)
[06:10] <SteveA> the logs are supposed to be public to us
[06:10] <bradb> SteveA: /errors randomly switching between servers, when all I really want is to see the error messages
[06:10] <jordi> kiko-fud: lol, I see.
[06:10] <SteveA> the /errors should go away totally
[06:10] <bradb> oh
[06:10] <jordi> happy hacking on lunchpad then.
[06:10] <kiko-fud> yeah, we should write code that has no errors
[06:14] <bradb> Hm, I don't yet see any mention of +upstreamtask in the error logs that were mailed to me.
[06:14] <bradb> Maybe the next report (which should be along any minute now) will include them.
[06:28] <bradb> BjornT: How much feedback have you gotten from mdz re: pre-defined bug reports?
[06:28] <mdz> bradb: one relatively short email
[06:28] <lifeless> pqm going down
[06:29] <BjornT> bradb: enough to get started at least. i've sent a mail to ubuntu-devel too
[06:29] <bradb> BjornT: cool
[06:31] <dand> can i see the default plural form for a language in rosetta/
[06:31] <bradb> mdz: ok, thanks. If you have any ideas for more reports (or complaints about usability), feel free to let me know.
[06:31] <ddaa> lifeless: reviewed your pybaz patch
[06:31] <ddaa> lifeless: you are free to hate me for that review :)
[06:31] <dand> there's a po file with a broken plural form (extra \n in the middle) and i'm looking for the source of that (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/aboutubuntu/ro/+translate)
[06:33] <mdke> dand, better ping jordi about it
[06:33] <mdz> bradb: I'm not using malone on a regular basis, so I don't have much to say at the moment
[06:33] <bradb> mdz: fair enough
[06:33] <dand> mdke: is it ok if i mail him about that and send you a fixed version?
[06:34] <mdke> dand, yes, best to mail rosetta-users@lists
[06:34] <dand> mdke: ok, will do that
[06:34] <mdke> thanks
[06:35] <dand> mdke: we should thank you, really :)
[06:35] <mdke> we'll thank each other then
[06:35] <mdke> lemme know when the new po is on its way
[06:35] <lifeless> ddaa: I hope it boils down to 'no tests, oh well pybaz is dying'
[06:35] <jordi> dand: I don't think there's anywhere Rosetta will show this info
[06:36] <dand> ok, i'll first do a review of the translation
[06:36] <ddaa> lifeless: not quite
[06:36] <jordi> dand: it's only in the database afaik.
[06:36] <ddaa> there's at least one place where you breaking the API and one coding style violation.
[06:36] <dand> jordi: could anyone check the plural form for Romanian (ro)?
[06:36] <lifeless> ddaa: where di dyou mail the rview ?
[06:36] <ddaa> Reviews mailing list, you in cc
[06:38] <dand> jordi: if it helps, a simplified form is: "Plural-Forms: nplurals=3;plural=(n==1?0:(n==0||((n%100)>0&&(n%100)<20))?1:2)\n"
[06:39] <ddaa> lifeless: besides, pybaz is still going to be around for a while, the fact it has gone into maintenance mode is not a reason to save writing tests or avoid existing patterns. It's just a reason to stop trying to refactor it into something sane.
[06:39] <ddaa> at least, in my understandnig
[06:40] <ddaa> I'd expect that a few people people are going keep using baz for some time, and pybaz would be useful to them.
[06:42] <jordi> dand: I think we have (n==1?0:(((n%100>19)||((n%100==0)&&(n!=0)))?2:1))
[06:42] <jordi> but not sure
[06:43] <jordi> SteveA: is anyone available to have a look in the database?
[06:43] <SteveA> no, only certain special people
[06:43] <dand> jordi: yeah, we've received the simplified version from bruno haible of gettext
[06:43] <jordi> SteveA: I can't help with the SQL statement because I don't know at all where it is.
[06:43] <jordi> dand: great.
[06:43] <SteveA> jordi: i don't know what you're talking about
[06:44] <jordi> dand: Please e-mail rosetta@canonical.com, I'll resend to stub when he's available.
[06:44] <jordi> SteveA: we need to change the Romanian plural forms
[06:44] <dand> jordi: will do. any ideas regarding the extra newline in the plural form?
[06:45] <jordi> what extra newline?
[06:45] <SteveA> jordi: easiest is to do it next week, when carlos is back
[06:45] <dand> jordi: see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/aboutubuntu/ro/+translate
[06:45] <jordi> SteveA: yeah. We'll have the email
[06:46] <jordi> dand: hrm, I can't paste. My mouse just died.
[06:46] <dand> jordi: the exported po has the plural form splitted on two lines
[06:47] <jordi> dand: I requested a download.
[06:48] <dand> jordi: thanks
[06:48] <mdke> jordi, you can see it at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/branches/breezy/gnome/aboutubuntu/ro/
[06:48] <jordi> ah, better
[06:49] <mdke> dand, have you still got the link to the pastebin of the error?
[06:49] <dand> mdke: http://pastebin.com/364648 , but jordi can't paste :)
[06:50] <mdke> oh
[06:50] <jordi> I'm copying by hand :)
[06:50] <jordi> mdke: your url is broken for me
[06:50] <dand> jordi: xchat has a "open in firefox tab" context menu, you know :)
[06:50] <mdke> jordi, damn sorry, put a /repos/ before /branches/
[06:50] <jordi> no mouse, no paste, no context menu :D
[06:51] <dand> bad mouse
[06:51] <jordi> dand: every file exported from rosetta results in this Plural-Forms?
[06:51] <jordi> even if the submitted file was ok?
[06:52] <jordi> heh, it's cool to be able to read romanian almost perfectly.
[06:53] <mdke> wow
[06:53] <mdke> i've gtg now
[06:53] <jordi> laters
[06:53] <dand> jordi: gnome-app-install looks ok in rosetta (aboutubuntu has the form broken in the interface, too), i'll try an export...
[06:56] <jordi> dand: I do't see anything broken in the interfac,e, what exactly?
[06:57] <dand> Plural Expression:
[06:57] <dand> (n == 1 ? 0: (((n %
[06:57] <dand> that's where the \n comes into place
[06:58] <jordi> dand: oh, I see it now, sorry.
[06:59] <jordi> for some reason rosetta isn't liking % in there.
[06:59] <jordi> This is a bug.
[06:59] <jordi> dand: can you file one?
[06:59] <dand> jordi: sure
[06:59] <jordi> many thanks
[06:59] <jordi> wtf, its 7PM?
[06:59] <jordi> damn it
[06:59] <dand> i'll then postpone sending the new plural form on rosetta, since it's not critical and it could affect reproducing this bug
[06:59] <jordi> dand: good
[07:00] <jordi> or, add a comment about a better expression being <whatever> in your bug report.
[07:00] <sabdfl> mpt: further thoughts on bug-headline-tasks
[07:01] <jordi> or send the email, and say that fixing the plural expression would hide bug #foo in rosetta
[07:01] <dand> jordi: ok
[07:01] <sabdfl> how about a little icon to indicate that there is text in the whiteboard for that task, with the text in the title="" attribute
[07:01] <jordi> hey, you've got a nice list of translators in the team
[07:01] <sabdfl> ?
[07:01] <jordi> that's great.
[07:01] <dand> jordi: better left it unchanged :)
[07:01] <dand> jordi: yeah, that's due to the translation marathons
[07:02] <jordi> kiko-fud: is anyone working/has worked on improving that "Not Malone official" string?
[07:02] <jordi> sabdfl: re ^^, I suggest we show when it is, not when it's not.
[07:02] <bradb> jordi: I can probably get to that today, if noone else does it.
[07:04] <jordi> bradb: nice, let's see what the others say
[07:04] <jordi> SteveA: have a nice evening
[07:04] <SteveA> thanks jamesh 
[07:04] <SteveA> um, thanks jordi 
[07:05] <kiko> jordi, mpt, I believe
[07:06] <mpt> sabdfl: Where would you put the icon? I don't think that would be very discoverable
[07:07] <bradb> sabdfl: Under the new URL scheme, if you're really keen on in some way exposing something about the whiteboard on the bug page, we could even just put that message somewhere on the bug page.
[07:08] <Keybuk> >>> d = {"foo": "this is foo", "bar": "this is bar", "baz": "this is baz"}
[07:08] <Keybuk> >>> dict((v, k) for (k,v) in d.items())
[07:08] <Keybuk> {'this is baz': 'baz', 'this is bar': 'bar', 'this is foo': 'foo'}
[07:08] <sabdfl> bradb: no thanks, i'd like the bug page to stay neutral
[07:08] <Kinnison> Keybuk: gotcha, ta
[07:09] <Kinnison>         suffixpockets = dict((v,k) for (k,v) in pocketsuffix.items())
[07:09] <Kinnison> comme a ?
[07:09] <sabdfl> mpt: also, i'll leave the little man on the bugtask if there is an assignee even though it's linked to another bug tracker
[07:09] <mpt> sabdfl: I gave SteveA a diff to re-remove the underlining from portlets and to remove the underlining from the fix requests table, since baz is working much faster on his machine
[07:09] <Keybuk> use .iteritems() for added not-making-temporary-lists-ness
[07:09] <sabdfl> mpt: please discuss further changes to this widget with me
[07:09] <sabdfl> mpt: rock, thanks
[07:09] <Kinnison> Keybuk: screw that, it's done once on module import
[07:09] <sabdfl> stubplease could you get that fix ^^^ into the rollout?
[07:09] <bradb> sabdfl: It seems to already been slightly biased for the sake of usability. e.g. highlighting the current ask and a "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link in the actions portlet.
[07:09] <sabdfl> does anyone know if stub tagged off yet?
[07:10] <bradb> s/ask/task/
[07:10] <bradb> lifeless: er, was pqm still dead?
[07:10] <sabdfl> Edit Assignee doesn't appear in my actions portlet on the bug, and i would delete it if it did
[07:10] <sabdfl> bradb: ^
[07:10] <lifeless> bradb: 'pqm is going down'
[07:11] <bradb> lifeless: "still dead?" :)
[07:11] <bradb> for how long?
[07:11] <kiko> sabdfl, one day you need to explain to me why the bug page profits from being neutral..
[07:12] <sabdfl> kiko: you have so little faith
[07:12] <bradb> sabdfl: Just curious: in what way does it help the user to not have a discoverable way of assigning/editing the task details? (particularly because this is among the more common points of confusion reported from people that use malone, even after they've already been *shown* how to do it! :)
[07:12] <sabdfl> think back to cape town, and the things we were fighting about back then ;-)
[07:12] <sabdfl> bradb: how are we doing on MaloneOneDotZero?
[07:12] <lifeless> bradb: magic marker time
[07:12] <bradb> sabdfl: (btw, that link is part of the URL changes branch.)
[07:13] <lifeless> bradb: not dead, down.
[07:13] <kiko> sabdfl, /we/ were fighting for hanging bugs on contexts, you were against it, I recall well
[07:13] <sabdfl> bradb: drop that change please
[07:13] <sabdfl> err.. you were fighting for moving the bugtask page INTO the bug page on the context
[07:13] <sabdfl> that was the difference, not the location of the bug page
[07:13] <kiko> you may have misunderstood
[07:14] <bradb> sabdfl: blocked on URL changes review. other than that, I have no idea, because the requirements haven't been confirmed to me. If it were up to me, we'd roll out right after the URL change lands and we ensure that the system is still rock solid.
[07:14] <kiko> but there is little difference between the two situations
[07:14] <kiko> bradb, that's what I'm also tending towards
[07:14] <bradb> s/roll out/roll out 1.0/
[07:14] <sabdfl> bradb: please create a malone1.0 milestone in LP
[07:14] <bradb> ok
[07:14] <sabdfl> please assign to it the specs and bugs that you believe should be 1.0 material
[07:14] <sabdfl> i asked for that two weeks ago
[07:16] <sabdfl> bradb: it's YOUR job to manage the scope of 1.0. if there are changes, you should always, always know where we stand
[07:16] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=bjornt merge support for hints and ancestry of manifests. (patch-2417: scott@canonical.com)
[07:16] <sabdfl> we had an agreed list in UDU, and there have been changes, but there's no reason for you not to have a page that lists the spec requirements of 1.0
[07:16] <bradb> sabdfl: I've done a heck of a lot of work in the wiki to provide an accurate picture of what I understand Malone 1.0 to be, FWIW. (LaunchpadOneDotZero is also up-to-date, to the best of my knowledge.)
[07:16] <sabdfl> ok
[07:17] <sabdfl> bradb: could you capture that in the spec tracker please?
[07:17] <bradb> yes, doing that now
[07:17] <sabdfl> coolio
[07:17] <sabdfl> as far as i'm concerned malone is looking very good
[07:17] <sabdfl> so we should be converging on 1.0 at this point
[07:17] <sabdfl> i'm very pleased with bradb and bjornt's work since sao carlos
[07:18] <bradb> i'm happy to hear that you're happy with how it's coming along
[07:18] <sabdfl> bradb: i'm landing a bug-headline-tasks shortly, could you ensure that you branches do not change it before 1.0 please?
[07:19] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/hct--devel--1: magic marker upgrade from scotts hct branch (patch-18: scott@canonical.com)
[07:19] <bradb> sabdfl: yes, i'll make sure
[07:19] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/sourcerer--devel--0: magic marker upgrade from scotts sourcerer branch (patch-28: scott@canonical.com)
[07:20] <bradb> name, title, and summary required. hm.
[07:22] <bradb> the URL field is also pretty tiny
[07:22] <lifeless> geez you guys are impatient
[07:22] <lifeless> pqm open again
[07:23] <bradb> "Constraint not satisfied"!!!!!
[07:23] <bradb> I bet the spec name has to be all lower-case
[07:23] <bradb> s/-//
[07:23] <mpt> You're reporting all these as bugs, right? :-)
[07:24] <bradb> i will, yeah
[07:24] <bradb> i need the karma, badly
[07:34] <bradb> bugs #2320, #2321 and #2323 filed, and given to the sab
[07:39] <sabdfl> bradb: is there a way to make the field convert to lowercase, and submit lowercase?
[07:40] <kiko> sabdfl, yes -- in your form handler do a .lower() and then save it.
[07:40] <bradb> sabdfl: If you want to do that everywhere that a name is entered, and in the same way, then I'd imagine that a custom widget is the way to do that.
[07:40] <kiko> oh
[07:40] <kiko> in javascript, it is possible -- but you don't really want JS for that.
[07:40] <kiko> the best is to use a text-transform and then a backend transform too.
[07:41] <mpt> we went through this in March-April
[07:41] <mpt> you have to handle it in the back end regardless of what you do in the front end
[07:41] <mpt> because you can't trust the world's population of Web browsers to give you only valid data.
[07:44] <kiko> Keybuk, sabdfl: should I include HCT in the launchpad reports?
[07:50] <sabdfl> kiko: yes please!
[07:50] <sabdfl> bradb: ok. the new form machinery that's landing shortly makes this easy
[07:51] <Kinnison> anyone available for a drive-by review?
[07:51] <bradb> sabdfl: To do it world-wide I think you want a custom widget.
[07:51] <Kinnison> (should be pretty easy to review, it's one method and its doctest)
[07:52] <bradb> sabdfl: If you only want it done in one form, all you have to do currently is override .create in your view class.
[07:54] <bradb> sabdfl: I was going to ask: should URL be required for specification? What if the spec doesn't yet exist at a URL?
[07:54] <sabdfl> bradb: a custom widget would probably be a good idea
[07:55] <sabdfl> bradb: hmm... good point, pls file a bug and assign to me
[07:55] <bradb> will do
[07:55] <Kinnison> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file88bpWi.html
[07:55] <Kinnison> Scott kinda wants this functionality :-)
[07:57] <bradb> sabdfl: bug #2324
[07:57] <bradb> (assigned to you)
[08:11] <Kinnison> To sort a list of strings in descending order of length: foo.sort(lambda a,b: len(a) > len(b)) yes?
[08:19] <mdz> kiko: what's you reaction to the latest langpack feedback from pitti?
[08:23] <kiko> ecstasy, mdz
[08:23] <mdz> s/you/your/
[08:23] <bradb> sabdfl: Is there any way to batch target specs to a milestone?
[08:23] <bradb> I'm getting a bit carsick from all this data entry
[08:24] <bradb> But the specs that I understand to be part of (or, at least, need consideration for being part of) Malone 1.0 are all there: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+specs
[08:26] <bradb> right, I need food, bbiab
[08:36] <cprov> why does PQM does this with my branch ? it simply disapeared, not even the email, saying : YOU'VE CRASHED PQM, GO AWAY ;)
[08:36] <cprov> lifeless: ping 
[08:37] <kiko> Kinnison, sort and then .reverse()
[08:37] <kiko> Kinnison, using sort functions is very slow
[08:37] <Kinnison>         # Sort it longest string first
[08:37] <Kinnison>         suffixes.sort(lambda a,b: cmp(len(b), len(a)))
[08:37] <kiko> bad
[08:37] <Kinnison> it's a short list (about four entries usually)
[08:37] <kiko> suffixes.sort()
[08:37] <Kinnison> mark seemed to like it :-(
[08:37] <kiko> suffixes.reverse()
[08:37] <Kinnison> sort() is an alphanum sort
[08:37] <kiko> does that say much? 
[08:37] <Kinnison> yes?
[08:37] <kiko> yes
[08:37] <Kinnison> right
[08:37] <kiko> well
[08:37] <Kinnison> that's not what I want
[08:37] <kiko> it uses cmp()
[08:38] <Kinnison> I want it sorted Longest string first
[08:38] <kiko> what are you comparing?
[08:38] <kiko> okay
[08:38] <Kinnison> as per the comment
[08:38] <kiko> the correct way to do this
[08:38] <Kinnison> cunningly placed above the sort
[08:38] <kiko> is to use a DSU
[08:38] <kiko> or use the key argument to sort
[08:38] <kiko> help(sort) for information
[08:39] <kiko> for yet more information look at the python documentation
[08:39] <kiko> the latter is more compact
[08:39] <kiko> but python2.4-only
[08:39] <Kinnison> LP needs 2.4
[08:39] <Kinnison> sort(...)
[08:39] <Kinnison>     L.sort(cmp=None, key=None, reverse=False) -- stable sort *IN PLACE*;
[08:39] <Kinnison>     cmp(x, y) -> -1, 0, 1
[08:39] <Kinnison> gotta love python docs
[08:40] <kiko> Kinnison, key=len should work
[08:41] <Kinnison> so suffixes.sort(key=len)
[08:41] <Kinnison> suffixes.reverse()
[08:41] <kiko> >>> a = ["a", "bbb", "zz", "oooo"] 
[08:41] <kiko> >>> a.sort()
[08:41] <kiko> >>> a
[08:41] <kiko> ['a', 'bbb', 'oooo', 'zz'] 
[08:41] <kiko> >>> a.sort(key=len)
[08:41] <kiko> >>> a
[08:41] <kiko> ['a', 'zz', 'bbb', 'oooo'] 
[08:41] <kiko> Kinnison:
[08:41] <Kinnison> and you prefer that to my lambda?
[08:41] <Kinnison> :-(
     L.sort(cmp=None, key=None, reverse=False) -- stable sort *IN PLACE*;
[08:41] <Kinnison> okay
[08:41] <kiko> a.sort(key=len, reverse=True)
[08:41] <Kinnison> okay
[08:42] <ddaa> I think the key=len idiom is more readable once you are used to the idiom
[08:43] <ddaa> (it's also faster for unsorted input, not that this matters in this case)
[08:44] <cprov> kiko: may I check the PQM errolog before it's late ?  it did the same weird thing again, abort my request after long time processing ...
[08:46] <kiko> cprov, sorry?
[08:47] <cprov> kiko: ok, PQM is refusing my request, as I said before,  in a "never seen" manner, the job simply disapear after long time processing, no result email. 
[08:48] <kiko> cprov, probably hung and somebody killed it
[08:48] <kiko> just resend
[08:48] <cprov> kiko: we should look at PQM log before it gets too late and investigate this error, it was already the third time today
[08:49] <cprov> kiko: It'd be probably worth to figure out what is going on, my tree presents the "importd/Taxi" error when running check_merge 
[08:50] <kiko> cprov, just insist, is the only thing I can suggest
[08:50] <cprov> kiko: yup, thanks
[09:03] <kiko> cprov, failed again?
[09:04] <cprov> kiko: no no, I'd be totally happy if it produces responses fast like that, we'll know in 1,5 hours (3 jobs before mine)
[09:05] <cprov> kiko: currently if fighting with an unhappy "refuel" of 20 min and still running
[09:06] <kiko> ffs
[09:09] <cprov> kiko: no tears, but I/O kills me on hillary (network & HD) even using FL_COW
[09:11] <kiko> same here, cprov -- it's a fucker
[09:11] <cprov> kiko: indeed
[09:12] <kiko> missing a desktop? :)
[09:17] <cprov> 2x 19'' inches LCD screen, SCSI disks, almost like anthem would make me happy ;) (keep inside my log dream ...)
[09:17] <SteveA> hiya
[09:18] <SteveA> aw shite.  mpt: that merge failed.
[09:19] <SteveA> and it failed because of hct errors
[09:19] <SteveA> Keybuk: you still on the launchpad list?
[09:20] <Keybuk> SteveA: yup, why?
[09:20] <Keybuk> blame lifeless
[09:20] <Keybuk> he force-landed the merge ;)
[09:21] <Keybuk> what was the failure?
[09:21] <SteveA> Keybuk: what merge is that you are talking about?
[09:21] <Keybuk> hct manifest hints and ancestry
[09:21] <Keybuk> as well as bring the hct and sourcerer branches up to date
[09:22] <SteveA> ERROR: testCreatesLoggingInstance (hct.cli.tests.test_command.CommandManager_InitLogging)
[09:22] <salgado> SteveA, aparently submitting it again won't work. cprov's merge failed, then your's failed, then bradb's and now it's going to be my turn to receive a failure
[09:22] <SteveA> that's the first failure
[09:22] <SteveA> the point of test suites is that we don't get into this state
[09:23] <salgado> you got a failure, right bradb ?
[09:23] <bradb> checking mail right now to find out
[09:23] <bradb> Seriously latency with my provider in Asia
[09:23] <bradb> s/ly//
[09:23] <SteveA> bradb: dude, want a gmail account?
[09:23] <bradb> i have one
[09:24] <cprov> bradb: you probably didn't receive it, like me
[09:24] <SteveA> i sent my failure from pqm on to the launchpad list
[09:24] <SteveA> the change i'm trying to get pqm to land is the UI stuff from mpt that sabdfl wanted cherrypicked
[09:24] <cprov> SteveA: ok, I'll arrive "someday" here :(
[09:25] <SteveA> "it'll", i think you mean
[09:25] <SteveA> otherwise, i'm confused
[09:25] <SteveA> Keybuk: who can fix this?
[09:25] <SteveA> Keybuk: can you fix it by disabling those tests or reverting the screwed changes?
[09:26] <Keybuk> there aren't any screwed changes that I know of
[09:26] <SteveA> today is "tag for production day"
[09:26] <Keybuk> lifeless ran the test suite before he merged
[09:26] <Keybuk> and pqm ran it again
[09:26] <SteveA> if the tests are failing and they weren't earlier, then there must be some screwed changes, by definition
[09:26] <SteveA> is lifeless in the uk still?
[09:26] <Keybuk> he's in the pub
[09:27] <cprov> SteveA: you start get my typos and I'll kick "gaim" definetly of my life ASAP.
[09:29] <bradb> SteveA: FTR, the failure I got is my own fault.
[09:29] <bradb> (it was a failure in person-pages.txt for me)
[09:30] <kiko> SteveA, Keybuk: could they be intermittent changes?
[09:30] <SteveA> okay, i chatted with lifeless on the phone
[09:30] <SteveA> he's going to look into it first thing tomorrow uk time, when he has bandwidth at the canonical office
[09:30] <Keybuk> oh, wow, that's kind of interesting
[09:31] <Keybuk> lifeless must have not actually run the test cases after all
[09:31] <Keybuk> and just "assumed it all worked"
[09:31] <SteveA> stub can still cherrypick the change i have from mpt into production separately if necessary
[09:33] <SteveA> Keybuk: okay, so it will be obvious to lifeless what needs doing tomorrow?
[09:34] <Keybuk> I think I can fix it with a well-placed merge
[09:34] <SteveA> that would be nice.
[09:34] <SteveA> i'm off to get food and sleep.  can you send a message to the list / lifeless if you get it fixed?
[09:36] <kiko> yeah
[09:37] <kiko> somebody should blow up pqm
[09:37] <kiko> declare a national holiday
[09:39] <SteveA> dude
[09:39] <SteveA> if i hired uma thurman
[09:39] <SteveA> it wouldn't be for stopping some process on a linux box
[09:39] <Keybuk> no, it was kinda my fault
[09:39] <bradb> heh
[09:39] <Keybuk> I hadn't done an archive-mirror before lifeless spammed the changes on
[09:39] <Keybuk> but then he didn't actually do make check_merge either
[09:41] <bradb> PEBKAPQM
[09:41] <cprov> Keybuk: could be but why every one has received email about the failure and I'm not ? do you have a clue or the results are unpredictable at all and I can sleep in peace today
[09:41] <Keybuk> no clue about that, pqm probably ate your branch
[09:41] <Keybuk> maybe yours was the one lifeless killed
[09:42] <cprov> Keybuk: maybe, but 3 times ?! how odd am I today ;)
[09:42] <bradb> cprov: You can at least sleep well knowing that your request FAILED.
[09:42] <bradb> Even if they don't find the body.
[09:42] <SteveA> mpt: please send me an email at the end of the day telling me what i can merge from and summarizing what's done on menus.  i want to continue the work tomorrow morning.
[09:43] <SteveA> good night, lunchpadders
[09:43] <SteveA> whereever you are
[09:43] <cprov> SteveA: night
[09:44] <cprov> bradb: I'm not sure if it helps in this circunstancies, but I'd be much happier with a BIG failure email :(
[09:45] <bradb> heh heh heeeeh
[09:47] <bradb> cprov: btw, it's a longshot, but did you try checking on chinstrap if you had mail there?
[09:47] <bradb> s/if/to see if/
[09:48] <cprov> bradb: not yet , good idea
[09:50] <cprov> bradb: no access to email locally in chinstrap it's forward to my real one, gave up, let's sort it out tomorrow, will work in other branches of mine
[09:50] <bradb> cprov: Hm, strange, when I type "mail", I see things.
[09:51] <bradb> Things that look like mail messages, more specifically.
[09:52] <cprov> bradb: eheh "i see things like dead people ?!", me too, not helpfull at all, it's ok for today 
[09:52] <bradb> ok
[10:00] <kiko> bradb, found the bug
[10:00] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1126810820.20.867802577266
[10:00] <kiko> ERROR: invalid input syntax for integer: "+distrotask" SELECT BugWatch.id, BugWatch.remotebug, BugWatch.datecreated, BugWatch.lastchanged, BugWatch.lastchecked, BugWatch.bug, BugWatch.owner, BugWatch.remotestatus, BugWatch.bugtracker FROM BugWatch WHERE (BugWatch.id = '+distrotask')
[10:00] <kiko> a broken link, but it should be a 404, not that.
[10:01] <kiko> bradb, leave this to gneuman, he can do it.
[10:01] <kiko> (he's the intern)
[10:01] <bradb> I thought the bug you found was in +upstreamtask?
[10:03] <kiko> probably happens there as well
[10:04] <kiko> broken links
[10:04] <kiko> linking to /++vh++https:launchpad.net:443/++/malone/bugs/1108/watches/+distrotask
[10:05] <kiko> no clue who's linking there though
[10:09] <bradb> hm, me neither. oh well, gneuman'll find out.
[10:09] <kiko> heh
[10:10] <bradb> maybe the googlebot tries to traverse to watches on its own?
[10:11] <bradb> if it traverses to watches, it lands on the bug page again. it might store the URL that it's currently traversing to and append the relative links to that that it finds in the page, which could cause this error.
[10:13] <kiko> perhaps
[10:13] <kiko> that would be a bug in googlebot though
[10:13] <bradb> yup
[10:19] <sabdfl> i doubt its googlebot
[10:19] <sabdfl> i fixed a bug recently where $bug_url was not being used properly
[10:19] <sabdfl> and i might have introduced a new bug in the process
[10:19] <sabdfl> find it, and we'll see
[10:19] <sabdfl> grep for +distrotask
[10:19] <kiko> yeah
[10:19] <sabdfl> could be a portlet
[10:20] <sabdfl> i bet its a portlet on a bug, and it's being displayed on a watch page
[10:20] <kiko> funny though, that bug doesn't have any watches
[10:37] <mpt> "* Applying 40 revisions .."
[10:37] <bradb> mpt: showoff
[10:40] <bradb> kiko: should we at least ask elm<last letter omitted to avoid nick highlighting> to bounce pqm?
[10:45] <bradb> ah, looks like cprov's merge request has been processed (though it looks like failure)
[10:46] <cprov> bradb: yes, this time I have an email ;)
[10:47] <bradb> cool
[10:48] <cprov> bradb:  and finally the expected error:  missing '/home/pqm/.hct/log' 
[10:48] <kiko> lol
[10:51] <bradb> mpt: Any news on the menu tabs bug? I can't find the bug report, searching for "menu" or "tab".
[10:52] <mpt> bradb: No news
[10:52] <mpt> I keep getting more urgent things to do
[10:53] <mpt> like application menus
[10:53] <mpt> and desuckifying the person page
[10:53] <mpt> and making Rosetta readable
[11:08] <sabdfl> bradb: suddenly getting a lot more bugs filed in malone
[11:08] <sabdfl> it's that good UI, plus Launchpadintegration i think
[11:10] <kiko> sabdfl, I have a problem that I want your advice on
[11:11] <kiko> have 2 minutes?
[11:11] <bradb> sabdfl: could be. I'm looking forward to getting the menus sorted out, among other things.
[11:12] <bradb> gotta be somewhere in 50 minutes, later dudes
[11:19] <sabdfl> kiko: will call
[11:19] <sabdfl> actually, let's go by privmsg
[11:24] <sabdfl> stepping afk, back online in 20
[11:24] <sabdfl> kiko: ^
[11:46] <kiko> oki
[11:52] <sabdfl> hi
[11:53] <rbelem> hi sabdfl 
[11:57] <sabdfl> hi rbelem
[11:58] <rbelem> =)