[12:02] <mdz> doko: the hplip /etc/default change seems to trigger a conffile prompt
[12:03] <mdz> ctw: apparently?
[12:03] <mdz> ctw: if you can confirm that it worked in hoary, then it's almost surely a bug, and you should file it in Bugzilla
[12:03] <mvo> mjg59: is it a bug or a features that usplash exits if the vt is switched? 
[12:06] <ctw> mdz: I haven't tried it myself, but several users have posed in the forums that it worked out of the box and the following site has a wiki entry that suggests that it did work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryPMResults
[12:06] <mdz> ctw: it's difficult to confirm that you have exactly the same components; it would help if you could test it
[12:07] <mjg59> mvo: Feature
[12:07] <ctw> mdz: it wouldn't work with a live-cd, would it?
[12:07] <mdz> ctw: suspend-to-ram ought to, but certainly not hibernate
[12:08] <ctw> it seems that the components in the dv1000 are very similar
[12:08] <ctw> not much room to customize ...
[12:08] <ctw> I'll give the live cd & suspend to ram a shot
[12:08] <ctw> mdz: I've never filed a bug-report before, but found what looks like a very similar bug: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15141
[12:08] <mdz> thanks
[12:08] <ctw> albeit for a different computer
[12:09] <ctw> computer - model
[12:10] <elmo> FINALLY
[12:10] <elmo> empty breezy_probs.html
[12:11] <mvo> mjg59: thanks
[12:12] <mjg59> elmo: Want to take my bugs?
[12:13] <elmo> mjg59: dude, distro isn't even my job, I'm just ADD
[12:14] <mjg59> Damnit.
[12:14] <mjg59> You're quite happy to take part in prank calls, but will you accept the consequences? Nooooooooooooooo.
[12:15] <elmo> for versions of "take part in" meaning "be in the same room as"? :P
[12:17] <emile> i filed my first 2 bugs tonight, one of them has a comment added. I'm not exactly sure if i should respond or give any more info (http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15427)
[12:18] <mdz> emile: that comment was not directed at you
[12:19] <emile> ok thanks
[12:19] <mjg59> elmo: Bah. You're entirely in on it.
[12:19] <mdz> elmo: there is blood on your hands
[12:25] <elmo> lamont/infinity: around ?
[12:26] <mdz> mjg59: do you already have the fix for #6108 queued?
[12:26] <mdz> s/fix/workaround/
[12:27] <mjg59> mdz: Nope - sorry, when you suggest a fix that's not in a package I've ever touched, I tend to assume that means you'll upload it :)
[12:27] <mdz> mjg59: I suggested  a workaround in acpi-support, actually
[12:28] <mjg59> Oh, argh, is it in there? I thought it was in the laptop-mode script.
[12:28] <mdz> anyway I've done it and will mail you a diff
[12:28] <mjg59> The bug is against linux. Hm.
[12:28] <mjg59> Ok, thanks
[12:30] <mdz> mjg59: our best guess at present is that there is a bug in linux, but meanwhile we can do something about it in acpi-support
[12:30] <elmo> mdz: is it okay to use "touched it last" in assigning FTBFS or shall I leave bugzilla's defaults alone?
[12:31] <mdz> elmo: trust your judgement
[12:31] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah, ok
[12:31] <mjg59> Sorry, I'm dealing with an absolutely huge number of bugs at the moment
[12:31] <elmo> mdz: you realise if you say "use the force" or call me "luke" I'll never talk to you again, right?
[12:33] <mdz> mjg59: is there anyone in the laptop team community who we might be able to recruit to help with those?
[12:33] <mdz> elmo: ok, young jedi
[12:33] <mdz> reach out with your feelings
[12:33] <mjg59> mdz: Not that I could pick out now, not really I'm afraid
[12:34] <elmo> configure: error: Your system is not supporting pthreads
[12:34] <elmo> autoconf owns
[12:34] <mdz> supporting pthreads your system is not
[12:39] <elmo> grr, I wish people would check their uploads freakin build
[12:45] <mbreit> elmo: if i want you to sync something, can i tell you here or should i write you an email?
[12:45] <elmo> mbreit: tell me here - mail me if I don't acknowledge it here
[12:45] <elmo> do we still need tla in main? :)
[12:46] <ogra> mjg59, does usplash react on log_failure_msg ? or what do i need to do in the init script to make sure it switches back to console ? 
[12:47] <mbreit> okay... so could you sync ardour from debian unstable? should be version 0.9beta29-5... thanks!
[12:47] <slomo> elmo: did you already read my mails? ffmpeg and removal requests? ;)
[12:47] <mjg59> ogra: usplash_write "QUITQ
[12:47] <ogra> mjg59, thanks
[12:48] <ogra> i assume thats "QUIT" ?
[12:48] <mjg59> Yup
[12:48] <ogra> :)
[12:48] <elmo> mjg59: should hotkey-setup work on amd64?
[12:48] <elmo> slomo: not yet
[12:49] <Evaso> mbreit: i think that ardour-0.0beta30 is quite more usable
[12:50] <mbreit> Evaso: i would prefer not breaking UVF if there is no good reason ;)
[12:51] <mbreit> Evaso: and upgrading, testing and so on would take much time... so i would like to concentrate on fixing bugs first... and we have so much bugs to fix in universe....
[12:51] <mjg59> elmo: Uhm. Ought to.
[12:52] <Evaso> mbreit: ok but i doesn't know if beta29 is quite usable
[12:52] <Evaso> mbreit: there a quite impressive upstream changelog fix
[12:54] <mbreit> Evaso: but we have so many packages that are not even installable... and i would like to deal with them first...
[12:54] <Evaso> seems also that gstreamer-ffmpeg doesn't work on amd64 it crash totem when it require this  backend to play files
[12:56] <mbreit> Evaso: and beta30 is not in unstable yet
[12:58] <Evaso> mbreit: i know..
[12:58] <mbreit> Evaso: is it okay for you if i let elmo sync beta29 for now so it gets installable again? i will have a look at beta 30 when we have our unmet deps list empty?
[12:59] <Evaso> mbreit: ok, if it could be help you later this is the quite impressive list of fix of beta 30 http://ardour.org/news.php
[01:00] <mbreit> elmo: so could you sync it?
[01:03] <mbreit> thanks elmo!!
[01:32] <lamont> elmo: sup?
[02:03] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[02:04] <tseng> jdub: you keep leaving me out.
[02:04] <Robot101> jdub: moin
[02:04] <tseng> hey robot
[02:05] <whiprush> yay freedom!
[02:05] <tseng> whiprush: jdub doesnt include us, dude
[02:05] <tseng> whiprush: we own ipods
[02:05] <Robot101> and he's been bitching about me on other IRC channels for "breaking the network for the 2nd night in a row". sigh.
[02:05] <daniels> my iaudio has non-free firmware on it.
[02:05] <daniels> Robot101: so you're bitching on IRC about him bitching about you on IRC.
[02:05] <tseng> daniels: you are a terrible person
[02:05] <jdub> tseng: GOOD MORNING DELUDED RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVES!
[02:05] <whiprush> heh
[02:05] <Robot101> daniels: yes, but none of you know him, so it's fine :)
[02:05] <jdub> oh.
[02:06] <tseng> jdub: thanks.
[02:06] <jdub> the ipod thing!
[02:08] <whiprush> CONFIRMED: Breezy64 on Ultra 20 = works.
[02:08] <tseng> whiprush: elite
[02:08] <tseng> whiprush: now get the 1u x64 box
[02:08] <whiprush> I got the hp 1u instead, with dual dual cores. It's metal.
[02:08] <tseng> whiprush: im using breezy64 on the dell pe2850 (the box they claim be totally blow away)
[02:09] <tseng> they just hate my freedom
[02:09] <whiprush> heh.
[02:10] <HrdwrBoB> the DL145
[02:10] <whiprush> yep, gen2.
[02:10] <tseng> i dont think i have any of those
[02:10] <tseng> i have some older 1u compaqs
[02:11] <tseng> (proliant)
[02:11] <HrdwrBoB> we're going with the DL345s
[02:11] <HrdwrBoB> do the 145s have ilo?
[02:11] <whiprush> yeah
[02:11] <whiprush> the entire line comes with ilo. If you call your hp guy they'll even put debian on it for you.
[02:11] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[02:11] <HrdwrBoB> thought so
[02:11] <elmo> no they don't
[02:12] <elmo> DL140's don't have management hardware by default
[02:12] <HrdwrBoB> elmo: that was the impression I got from the website
[02:12] <HrdwrBoB> the 345's have ilo
[02:12] <HrdwrBoB> the 145's don't
[02:12] <elmo> and the management stuff on the 145 isn't anything like the stuff on the real HP hardware
[02:12] <elmo> (140 and 145 are basically not real proliant hardware)
[02:12] <elmo> HrdwrBoB: what's a 345?
[02:12] <tseng> \sh_away: your jabber server kicks me off constantly
[02:12] <HrdwrBoB> eer 385
[02:12] <daniels> elmo: i think he meant 385
[02:12] <daniels> yeah
[02:13] <whiprush> hmm, well, my stuff came with ilo and I didn't ask for anything.
[02:15] <whiprush> the webstore says the dl140 comes with ilo.
[02:15] <whiprush> or is lights out 100i remote management something else?
[02:15] <elmo> 100i remote management is nothing like a proper ilo, no
[02:15] <whiprush> ah.
[02:15] <elmo> but yeah, apparently DL140 G2's now have the 100i RM
[02:16] <elmo> G1 didn't
[02:16] <jdub> mjg59: ha ha ha ha
[02:16] <jdub> whiprush: are one or both of us not registered?
[02:17] <whiprush> probably me
[02:17] <whiprush> I registered before
[02:19] <jdub> elmo: did you get my /msg too?
[02:19] <jdub> gawd feenode is offensive
[02:20] <tseng> jdub: i noticed you didnt set umode +E yet
[02:20] <tseng> jdub: have 6 global messages about it.
[02:20] <jdub> what's +E?
[02:20] <tseng> jdub: AND THANKS FOR USING FREENODE
[02:20] <whiprush> +Ediocy
[02:21] <tseng> that was the no-msgs-from-unauth-users tag
[02:21] <tseng> until in his infinite wisdom
[02:21] <tseng> it became server enforced default
[02:21] <jdub> whiprush, elmo: so neither of you got my /msg in the last few minutes?
[02:21] <whiprush> I just got yours
[02:21] <jdub> oh
[02:21] <whiprush> I see you're not getting mine.
[02:21] <jdub> nup
[02:22] <whiprush> tseng: lilo's frozen corpse.
[02:22] <jdub> tseng: ;)
[02:22] <tseng> whiprush: r0x0rz!!!1eleventy
[02:26] <tseng> whiprush: oh dude
[02:26] <tseng> whiprush: are you rocking out to slomo 's banshee package?
[02:26] <whiprush> yessir
[02:26] <tseng> rad
[02:41] <tseng> mdz: that hdparm -B thing doesnt fix my dell very hard
[02:41] <tseng> mdz: let me find that bug again.
[02:42] <mdz> 6061 I think
[02:42] <mdz> no 6108
[02:45] <tseng> hm oh @ comment #55
[03:35] <mdz> tseng: are you absolutely sure your drive isn't operating in APM mode?
[03:36] <tseng> mdz: i absolutely have no idea
[03:36] <tseng> mdz: could it get this way on a week old install with no intervention?
[03:36] <mdz> tseng: try leaving laptop-mode enabled and doing an explicit hdparm -B 255 after switching to battery
[03:36] <tseng> mdz: sure
[03:37] <jdahlin> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but is there a way to upload custom acpi DSDT images on recent breezy kernels?
[03:37] <mdz> jdahlin: no, it isn't, but yes, there is ;-)
[03:38] <tseng> mdz: done, we'll see
[03:38] <mdz> jdahlin: /etc/mkinitramfs/DSDT.aml
[03:38] <jdahlin> mdz: does that involve creating a custom initrd image?
[03:39] <jdahlin> or is just dropping the file there enough?
[03:40] <mdz> jdahlin: just drop the file there
[03:40] <jdahlin> ok, thanks!
[03:40] <mdz> jdahlin: then sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
[04:03] <tseng> mdz: locking after hdparm -B 255
[04:04] <mdz> tseng: stumped
[04:04] <tseng> mdz: i still point an angry finger at laptop-mode
[04:05] <tseng> mdz: i can look more another day if you post ideas via the bug
[04:43] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:03] <jdub> Fetched 158MB in 22s (7041kB/s)
[05:03] <jdub> Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
[05:03] <jdub> Xlib: No protocol specified
[05:03] <jdub> 
[05:04] <jdub> ^ after an apt-get upgrade, just before templates/apt-listchanges
[06:30] <jdub> http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/index.php#lenibmovo-widescreens-launched-125477
[06:30] <jdub> ^ interesting new ibm lappies
[06:33] <Lathiat> jdub: Z series thinkpad?
[06:42] <Lathiat> fabbione: ?
[06:43] <fabbione> Lathiat: i can't get my ws to work
[06:43] <fabbione> and i don't understand what is wrong
[06:44] <Lathiat> ws?
[06:48] <fabbione> workstation
[06:48] <fabbione> keeps powering off by itself of do random crashes
[06:48] <Lathiat> ah
[06:48] <fabbione> ram has been tested
[06:48] <fabbione> all possible hw other than mobo/cpu swapped
[06:48] <fabbione> if i leave only CPU/MOBO and ram it works
[06:49] <fabbione> each single card works
[06:49] <fabbione> i really don't get it
[06:49] <Lathiat> could be a MB issue
[06:49] <Lathiat> interacting badly with more than 1 card etc
[06:49] <Lathiat> or perhaps it just hates you!
[06:49] <Lathiat> i hate problems like that
[06:51] <fabbione> so do i
[06:51] <fabbione> but the mobo had the same hw mounted on for 4 years
[06:51] <fabbione> more or less...
[06:51] <Lathiat> things do just die
[06:51] <fabbione> no shit
[06:52] <Lathiat> sound slike your situation is sucky tho
[06:52] <Lathiat> fabbione: can you get a certain combination of cards to work?
[06:52] <fabbione> no
[06:52] <Lathiat> so any 1 card works, any 2 doesn't?
[06:52] <Lathiat> or all cards work in another machine?
[06:52] <fabbione> somtimes it does, sometimes it doesnt...
[06:53] <Lathiat> heh
[06:53] <fabbione> i can't plug all the same cards in other machines
[06:53] <fabbione> not all together at least
[06:53] <fabbione> but it's the poweroff that's scary
[06:53] <fabbione> why should it power off?
[06:53] <Lathiat> if you get a chance try swapping the m/b i guess, i've had similar problems as a result of the m/b sucking
[06:53] <Lathiat> fabbione: what it powers itself off if its not working?
[06:55] <daniels> i'd be looking at the power supply, myself
[06:56] <Lathiat> mmm yeh thats likely too
[06:56] <fabbione> daniels: changed that too
[06:56] <fabbione> Lathiat: well but it's not powering off always at the same point
[06:56] <fabbione> yesterday it lasted 11 hours
[06:56] <fabbione> this morning 10 minutes
[06:57] <Lathiat> was fixing this old computer for someone once.. was freezing.. then i *moved* it.. stopped workign all together, swapped all manner of cpu/mobo configurations etc nothing woudl work.. after messing around for a few days i managed to find a combination that worked and left it, hope i never touch that again :)
[06:57] <Lathiat> fabbione: mmm
[07:06] <schweeb> good work guys... I can suspend-to-disk on my ibm x41, and that rules
[07:16] <doko> mdz: the hplip prompt is only triggered, when upgrading from the preview/colony cd. how to avoid it?
[07:17] <mdz> doko: what caused it?
[07:19] <doko> mdz: when derootifying, I introduced a RUN_AS_ROOT variable, which I dropped again, when syncing with unstable, with the new upload I was introducing an "empty" conf file again, with a comment section, how to disable hplip on boot
[07:20] <mdz> doko: you dropped the conffile entirely?
[07:20] <poningru> can someone help with bugzilla queries?
[07:20] <poningru> I wanna see what bugs are blocking 5.10
[07:20] <doko> mdz: it's introduced again with the current version
[07:21] <mdz> doko: argh
[07:21] <mdz> doko: you can fix it in the maintainer scripts, but probably not worth it if it was only breezy
[07:22] <doko> mdz: I'll recheck with a next upgrade from hoary, but I'm pretty sure, that I'm not asked any question
[07:24] <poningru> so no one?
[07:26] <mdz> poningru: anything severity blocker, critical or major is a good target
[07:33] <fabbione> mdz: you broke hplip on sparc with your last upload...
[07:34] <fabbione> http://bld-3.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/h/hplip/0.9.4-3ubuntu3/hplip_0.9.4-3ubuntu3_20050915-0626-sparc-failed.gz <- pretty interesting error
[07:34] <mdz> fabbione: how did I do that with a one-line change to a status message in the init script?
[07:34] <Lathiat> with great ease apparently
[07:35] <fabbione> mdz: no idea :) but you did touch it last rule owns :)
[07:35] <mdz> that rule doesn't apply when sparc loses its mind
[07:35] <mdz> then the "fabbione loves sparc" rule applies
[07:36] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp]  debdiff hplip_0.9.4-3ubuntu2.dsc hplip_0.9.4-3ubuntu3.dsc |diffstat
[07:36] <mdz>  changelog       |    6 ++++++
[07:36] <mdz>  hplip-base.init |    2 +-
[07:39] <fabbione> -checking for icon directory... using /usr/lib/menu/hplip
[07:39] <fabbione> +checking for icon directory... none
[07:39] <fabbione>  updating cache config.cache
[07:39] <fabbione> interesting
[07:40] <mdz> sparc = insane
[07:41] <fabbione> mdz: that's not the only intersting difference...
[07:44] <bob2> Processing was halted because there were too many errors.
[07:44] <bob2> go breezy!
[07:44] <mdz> breezy 0wns j00
[07:57] <rob^> bob2, the story of every breezy users life over the last couple of weeks :)
[07:59] <schweeb> rob^: or months, depending on how much you've been tracking breezy
[08:01] <rob^> schweeb, true, but there have been a lot since the last freeze 
[08:01] <schweeb> I'm just happy that I can finally suspend my IBM X41 to disk <3
[08:01] <tepsipakki> how come openssh is not built with kerberos-support?
[08:01] <bob2> it's a seperate package
[08:02] <bob2> schweeb: it didn't work in hoary?
[08:02] <tepsipakki> yeah, and the version is 3.8.1
[08:02] <bob2> 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.12-8-686 -plow' should ask me about usplash, right?
[08:02] <schweeb> bob2: no, I have a SATA hard drive... didn't work at all
[08:02] <bob2> ah
[08:02] <rob^> there is a usplash package
[08:03] <schweeb> the ubuntu splash on boot is frigging sweet.
[08:03] <tepsipakki> bob2: let me rephrase; why there is no openssh-krb5?-)
[08:03] <schweeb> way better than the initial one
[08:03] <rob^> schweeb, it is, but the font keeps fcking up for me
[08:03] <schweeb> that sucks
[08:04] <schweeb> I always get "failed" when setting console font... but it still works for me
[08:04] <rob^> same, are your fonts during boot bold and ugly though?
[08:04] <bob2> haha
[08:04] <bob2> that splash screen is surreal
[08:04] <tepsipakki> bob2: nevermind, #12725
[08:04] <schweeb> yea... not sure that's an issue... framebuffer can only do so much
[08:04] <bob2> and stops well before gdm starts
[08:04] <schweeb> at least they're the right color
[08:05] <rob^> heh yeah
[08:07] <bob2> and X is broken
[08:07] <schweeb> X works perfectly for me
[08:10] <bob2> oh, the gdm login is the same
[08:11] <bob2> and all my nautilus icons are gone
[08:14] <doko> do we have minimun hardware requirements documented for breezy?
[08:16] <fabbione> elmo, Znarl: ping?
[08:18] <bob2> oh, heh, network-manager is uninstallable
[08:20] <Burgundavia> bob2, j^'s might make universe RSN
[08:20] <bob2> ?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> bob2, the current version in universe is borked, a new version is sitting in REVU
[08:21] <bob2> is that the same as queue/NEW?
[08:21] <Burgundavia> bob2, no REVU is the tool for MOTU's to look at packages from non-MOTU's for upload
[08:21] <torkel> bob2: http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/
[08:34] <pef> hello
[08:44] <doko> fabbione: please could you build poppler on sparc? anastacia is currently fooled, that poppler-utils is not available on all archs
[08:46] <fabbione> doko: it's 4th in the queue already
[08:46] <pitti> Hi folks
[08:46] <fabbione> and afaik anastacia doesn't care about SSC
[08:54] <doko> fabbione: thanks, but apparently it did, see the backlog from yesterday
[08:54] <fabbione> doko: i have no irc backlogs
[08:55] <sivang> morning all
[08:55] <fabbione> i am having a lot of problems with my workstation.. and i am on and off.. randomically
[08:56] <sivang> ah man, elmo looked for me and I wasn't here...
[09:01] <dholbach> good morning
[09:02] <mvo> good morning dholbach 
[09:02] <dholbach> mvo: morning michael :)
[09:06] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[09:06] <dholbach> pitti: morning martin :)
[09:06] <dholbach> how are you all?
[09:12] <sivang> pitti: good to see that cups bug is fixed, not I can again see all the printer on my network
[09:12] <sivang> pitti: morning, btw
[09:16] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:20] <dholbach> sabdfl: morning mark
[09:20] <sabdfl> moin moin
[09:20] <dholbach> hehe :)
[09:21] <doko> mdz, Kamion: I'm going to seed libdb4.2++-dev, db4.3-util and libdb4.3-java. we shouldn't make any difference in db4.2 and db4.3 support at the moment
[09:22] <dholbach> morning doko
[09:23] <doko> dholbach: morning. did you finish your presentation for berlinux? ;-P
[09:23] <dholbach> doko: not finished yet, working on it
[09:27] <jdub> mdz: reping
[09:30] <mvo> mdz: are you still awake?
[09:32] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[09:34] <dholbach> i HATE different orig.tar.gz in ubuntu and debian *GRR*
[09:34] <bob2> spank people for that
[09:35] <dholbach> i feel that spanking just is not enough
[09:47] <dholbach> seb128: good morning sbastien :)
[09:48] <seb128> hello daniel!
[09:51] <doko> pitti: did you look at belocs, if it's ok to support it in main?
[09:51] <sivang> mornig dholbach 
[09:51] <sivang> Bo Jour seb128 
[09:51] <dholbach> sivang: good morning :)
[09:51] <sivang> err, Bon , even
[09:51] <pitti> doko: belocs? no, not yet - I did not even see that; my work plans yesterday got disturbed (see my activity report), will catch up today
[09:52] <doko> pitti: no, it's not mentioned in any report, just looking at it, because it adds support for km rw tn ss nso ts ve
[09:53] <pitti> doko: it's not yet fully compatible with our language packs; I'm just typing a mail about it, I CC you
[09:54] <pitti> doko: doko@u.c?
[09:54] <seb128> hi sivang
[09:54] <seb128> hi pitti
[09:54] <pitti> Hey seb128
[09:54] <doko> pitti: yes
[09:55] <sivang> anybody know the method/module to get files from HTTP like wget does?
[09:55] <sivang> (in python , that is)
[09:55] <pitti> sivang: urllib
[09:55] <sivang> pitti: k, thanks
[10:11] <sivang> pitti: hmm, I wonder how it doesn't have a class like FetchFiles(filenames_list) or something, although it's easy to implement
[10:11] <pitti> yep, simple for loop
[10:13] <sivang> s/class/method/
[10:28] <Keybuk> seb128: got an evo bug for you
[10:28] <Keybuk> the "Sent Folder" button is disabled unless you set up an incoming mail server type
[10:28] <Keybuk> which is ironic, given it's for _outgoing_ mail
[10:29] <seb128> Keybuk: right, I've that here too
[10:29] <sivang> Keybuk: nice =) 
[10:30] <Kamion> Keybuk: is anyone working on getting grepmap into Debian? the d-i team are cautiously interested in switching to hotplug, but without grepmap the performance difference will probably be such that they'll give up
[10:30] <Keybuk> Kamion: a few people have asked me about it over the last year, but I've not seen anyone actually upload it
[10:30] <Kamion> mind if I take a look at it then?
[10:31] <Keybuk> sure
[10:31] <seb128> Keybuk: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=315506
[10:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: how do you want versioning handled? it's currently just 0.1.0-3 in Ubuntu - shall I just bump to 0.1.0-4 and make sure the packaging is such that we can sync it next time round?
[10:31] <Keybuk> I think people have been put off because it's theoretically obsolete in the face of going-away-hotplug
[10:32] <Keybuk> yup, seems sane to me
[10:58] <Mithrandir> hmm, today's daily blows up spectacularly on this compaq nc8230
[10:59] <Mithrandir> as in, the initrd seems busted.
[11:00] <lifeless> where is the daily installer ?
[11:00] <Mithrandir> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ has isos
[11:01] <lifeless> danke
[11:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm, haven't changed anything dramatic lately
[11:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it complains about partial reads and stuff, before it gets to d-i itself.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> (sorry for vague error message, I rebooted with preview instead)
[11:03] <Kamion> well *that* sounds like a bad burn
[11:04] <Treenaks> or a bad drive
[11:04] <Mithrandir> it's repeated across burns
[11:06] <jdub> Mark in South Africa recently... 'With his crew, Ubuntu, he's won the national "Battle of the Year" for the last five years. "This is my dream. I only want to dance," he said.'
[11:07] <Treenaks> jdub: ...
[11:07] <jdub> url on sounder ;)
[11:07] <sivang> jdub: nice, 'sup btw? what about us and ibm? (I am downloaindg db2 validations scripts as we speak)
[11:08] <jdub> nothing to report
[11:10] <jdub> Kamion: ping
[11:14] <Burgundavia> jdub, what is planned for Ubuntu Love Day at UBZ?
[11:15] <jdub> Burgundavia: cool presentations, marketing/loco bofs, stuff like that - should have schedule up next week
[11:16] <pitti> infinity: can you please give-back affix?
[11:16] <Burgundavia> jdub, ok, just chatting with Mark about involving the Canadian loco team and contacting the local LUG
[11:16] <jdub> Burgundavia: and ubuntutoronto.org!
[11:16] <Burgundavia> jdub, bah, TO can eat their donuts
[11:16] <jdub> they're nearby
[11:17] <Burgundavia> yes, they are
[11:17] <Treenaks> isn't Ottawa closer?
[11:17] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, yes
[11:25] <Burgundavia> QC is only about 2 hours drive as well, if I remember correctly
[11:25] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: hmm.. good thing I planned an extra day off for myself then :)
[11:25] <Burgundavia> jdub, how are you travelling on the BBB tour?
[11:25] <Kamion> jdub: pong
[11:25] <jdub> Burgundavia: parachute.
[11:25] <Burgundavia> jdub, I was hoping for steam-powered dirigible, but parachute is still pretty cool
[11:25] <jdub> Kamion: was just thinking, perhaps we should see how the usplash logo works for the ISOLINUX image?
[11:25] <Kamion> jdub: sure, could d
[11:25] <Kamion> do
[11:25] <jdub> thanks 8)
[11:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I see the boot problem with current daily, md5sum matches and I've tried with multiple different media.
[11:31] <Kamion> meh, ok, I'll rsync and have a look
[11:31] <Mithrandir> it complains about trying to access beyond end of device, then dies because it can't open initial console and init dies.
[11:31] <Mithrandir> it also says RAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 12582912
[11:31] <Kamion> hmm, that sounds like initrd bigger than boot args say
[11:31] <Kamion> i386?
[11:32] <Mithrandir> yeah
[11:32] <Mithrandir> does the boot args say anything about initrd size there?
[11:32] <Kamion> oh, huh, we have the initrd size hardcoded in debian-cd
[11:32] <Mithrandir> uhm
[11:32] <Mithrandir> that sounds bad
[11:33] <Kamion> 'zcat /cdrom/install/initrd.gz | wc -c' please?
[11:33] <Mithrandir> $ zcat /cdrom/install/initrd.gz | wc --bytes
[11:33] <Mithrandir> 13791232
[11:33] <Mithrandir> (I think you want --bytes, not -c; this is an utf8 locale)
[11:33] <Kamion> true
[11:34] <Kamion> now why did it grow so much?
[11:34] <Mithrandir> they happen to give the same answer this time, though.
[11:34] <Mithrandir> 13 megs sounds a bit excessive
[11:34] <Kamion> debian-cd's current value for i386 is 12288 (*1024)
[11:35] <Kamion> so that's like a megabyte growth all of a sudden. what happened?
[11:35] <Kamion> one good thing about having it hardcoded is that you get to find out about this sort of thing :)
[11:36] <Kamion> hmm, perhaps I have the numbers wrong; it's grown by a few tens of KB lately, but not hugely
[11:38] <Kamion> I'll bump it to 16384 for now
[11:39] <Mithrandir> thanks
[11:45] <Kamion> rebuilding CDs now
[11:55] <seb128> elmo: libglib-perl and libgtk2-perl syncs please. These are new stable versions base on the current unstable we have and will fix #15447 
[12:00] <sladen> jdub: rocking idea
[12:01] <sladen> jdub: I was also trying to work out whether it could be stuck in the middle of the black X display, as soon as X is started and for the 5-10 seconds before gdm starts doing-its-thing
[12:02] <sivang> guys, since about 2 days ago when I updated my laptop, the USPlash appears but dropps on the "Setting up console font" msg, any idea?
[12:03] <sivang> it goes back to the old console messages screen
[12:03] <mjg59> sivang: Bug in console-tools
[12:03] <mvo> sivang: yes, a bad console-tools upload
[12:03] <mvo> sivang: fixed in todays upload
[12:22] <mvo> btw, would anyone hate me if console-fonts can't be changed if usplash is used?
[12:22] <sivang> mvo: cool ;)
[12:22] <sivang> mvo: what do you mean?
[12:22] <sivang> mvo: (re your last statmnt)
[12:22] <mvo> sivang: while usplash is running the text-console fonts can't be set to something other than the default 
[12:22] <Lathiat> is it possible to change it between usplash ending and gdm starting
[12:22] <mvo> Lathiat: that may work, runing it right before gdm /me tests
[12:22] <Lathiat> who cares anyway? ;)
[12:22] <Kamion> Lathiat: I've got bugs from Polish console users
[12:22] <Lathiat> oh
[12:22] <Lathiat> blah
[12:22] <Lathiat> non english people
[12:22] <mvo> Kamion: so polish console users that use usplash would hate me ?
[12:22] <jdub> or are you changing sides after the ashes?
[12:22] <jdub> soft.
[12:22] <Lathiat> non english language people
[12:22] <Lathiat> english alphabet, really. :)
[12:22] <jdub> mvo: is usplash explicitely killed pre-gdm?
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do you know the real reason for parted to be strict about msdos partitions being aligned on cylinder boundaries and such?
[12:22] <sivang> mvo: fix working , now testing it on poweroff
[12:22] <mvo> jdub: no, apparently it kills itself if the vt is switched. fortunately gdm switches the vt and usplash goes away 
[12:22] <mvo> sivang: thanks
[12:22] <Kamion> mvo: probably :-/
[12:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no
[12:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: although I suspect it's because Windows barfs if the partition table isn't just how it likes it
[12:22] <sivang> mvo: seems I didn't get the USPlash on poweroff, and I used to get it before the crucial update - known?
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, fdisk and windows is happy on this laptop, but parted refuses to touch the drive because "Unable to satisfy all constraints on the partition."
[12:22] <ogra> doko_, looking at 15330 i think we can just remove the 2.3 dependency safely... all apps call #!/usr/bin/env python, nothing is in 2.3's site-packages
[12:22] <seb128> mvo: do you have this issue with german too: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14094 ?
[12:22] <ogra> seb128, does it go away if you run unicode_start ?
[12:22] <seb128> it doesn't bug the same way
[12:22] <mvo> sivang: no, but it shouldn't change that behaviour
[12:22] <seb128> without it  does an A@ by example
[12:22] <seb128> with ie,  does a 
[12:22] <ogra> hmm
[12:22] <seb128> which seems to be a font issue
[12:22] <ogra> wrong console font  ?
[12:22] <mvo> seb128: I can type all german umlauts with the default font, but a  does not work
[12:22] <seb128> mvo: I can type a 
[12:22] <seb128> but not q 
[12:22] <seb128> s/q/a/
[12:22] <seb128> neither a 
[12:22] <mvo> I can type 0
[12:22] <ogra> does runnung /etc/init.d/console-screen.sh help ? its the one that fails due to usplash
[12:22] <ogra> running even
[12:22] <Mithrandir> can ubuntu-meta have versioned depends?
[12:22] <Kamion> no infrastructure for that
[12:22] <Mithrandir> hmm
[12:23] <Kamion> theoretically yes, but I think it's a bad idea - better put the versioned depends elsewhere
[12:23] <Mithrandir> the readahead -> readahead-list -> readahead transition didn't really work.
[12:23] <Mithrandir> since both provides each other.
[12:23] <Kamion> since the stricter ubuntu-meta gets, the more likely it is that people will deinstall it, and the more diminished its already diminished utility gets
[12:24] <Mithrandir> mhm
[12:24] <seb128> ogra: I don't have usplash on my box
[12:24] <Kamion> but there's no readahead-list.deb anywhere any more, so that problem should go away?
[12:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: nope, since readahead-list provides readahead.
[12:25] <seb128> no, no change with the console init
[12:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but readahead-list isn't in Packages any more
[12:26] <Kamion> so surely it should be counted as unavailable
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that doesn't matter if people have it installed already.
[12:26] <Kamion> I hate apt
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll have readahead-list (which now produces readahead) produce an empty readahead-list package which just has a versioned depends on readahead.
[12:26] <Kamion> it should see that readahead conflicts/replaces readahead-list and install readahead-list instead
[12:26] <Kamion> er, "install readahead instead"
[12:26] <Mithrandir> yes, the original meaning of replaces.
[12:27] <Kamion> the original meaning of conflicts+replaces
[12:27] <Kamion> I guess that readahead-list transitional solution is the best you're going to get
[12:27] <Kamion> it can go away in dapper since readahead-list only existed during breezy development
[12:27] <Mithrandir> yup
[12:31] <doko> ogra: yes, I'm still hoping to update to the final release ... waiting for jinti
[12:32] <sladen> seb128: dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r)
[12:32] <ogra> doko, err, thats the freshest release they have, released about 4 weeks ago, i dont think we'll se any update before releas
[12:33] <ogra> e
[12:33] <seb128> what will that change?
[12:34] <ogra> sladen, tht fixes the console font ? 
[12:37] <sladen> nope.  I suspect the console font isn't loading because the VT has been shoved into framebuffer mode
[12:39] <seb128> I don't use any framebuffer or splash
[12:42] <doko> Kamion: did you see my question about db4.2/db4.3 ?
[12:43] <terrex> hi. Anybody knows why wine Replaces: winesetuptk if actually it doesn't?
[12:44] <terrex> I've renamed that second package to avoid conflict in dpkg database but both wine and winesetuptk works well at the same time.
[12:46] <doko> was: mdz, Kamion: I'm going to seed libdb4.2++-dev, db4.3-util and libdb4.3-java. we shouldn't make any difference in db4.2 and db4.3 support at the moment
[12:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: should we put readahead-list into the supported seed or something, then?
[12:48] <Kamion> doko: I didn't realise that was a question; it seemed to be a statement of intent, and I had no objections
[12:49] <Kamion> terrex: that's not what Replaces means
[12:49] <Kamion> terrex: it means that wine ships some files that used to be shipped by winesetuptk
[12:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes
[12:49] <seb128> ogra: do you change gnome-system-tools for edubuntu: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15428 ?
[12:50] <Kamion> seb128: how could he? same archive
[12:50] <seb128> Kamion: dunno how Edubuntu works and if they can divert some packages
[12:50] <doko> Kamion: ok
[12:50] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[12:51] <terrex> Kamion, and why am I not be able to install both?
[12:51] <terrex> when i select one, synaptic deselect the another.
[12:52] <ogra> seb128, nope, i didnt touch it...
[12:52] <bob2> terrex: it Conflicts with winesetuptk
[12:53] <terrex> e$ apt-cache show wine | grep winesetuptk
[12:53] <terrex> Replaces: winesetuptk, wine-doc, wine-utils, libwine-alsa, libwine-arts, libwine-capi, libwine-jack, libwine-nas, libwine-print, libwine-twain, libwine, libwine-dev
[12:53] <terrex> Conflicts: binfmt-support (<< 1.1.2), winesetuptk, wine-doc, wine-utils, libwine-alsa, libwine-arts, libwine-capi, libwine-jack, libwine-nas, libwine-print, libwine-twain
[12:53] <terrex> sorry for the paste.
[12:54] <bob2> yes, it Conflicts
[12:54] <terrex> but i think that it should conflict with
[12:54] <bob2> (as well as Replacing)
[12:54] <terrex> but i think that it should'nt conflict with
[12:56] <ogra> terrex, winesetuptk is unmaintained and breaks the config, its not compatible with the packages from winehq, thats why it is replaced by the new wine packages (they are from winehq, not debian)
[12:56] <terrex> or well, wine provides winesetuptk
[12:56] <Kamion> terrex: Replaces is irrelevant, in any case
[12:56] <Kamion> well, er, not really, Conflicts+Replaces has a special meaning of "this package totally replaces the other"
[12:56] <ogra> terrex, there must be a new tool thats shipped with the winehq packages (dunno its name though)
[01:00] <terrex> aha okey, i'll try to look for it.
[01:00] <terrex> th
[01:00] <terrex> thx.
[01:04] <Mithrandir> maswan: would you mind making sure that the ubuntu-releases module exists on all of releases.ubuntu.com?
[01:04] <Mithrandir> maswan: (rsync)
[01:05] <jordi> pitti: did ubuntu get mailutils from incoming?
[01:06] <pitti> jordi: mailutils | 1:0.6.90-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
[01:06] <pitti> jordi: so I guess not?
[01:06] <jordi> pitti: is it frozen for that kind of updates'
[01:07] <jordi> both -2 and -3 have important stuff
[01:07] <pitti> jordi: please mail elmo about a sync request
[01:07] <pitti> jordi: for hoary and warty we need proper uploads, though
[01:08] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll chuck 14690 in your direction so you can follow up on it.
[01:11] <fabbione> meh
[01:11] <fabbione>  /usr/bin/ldd: line 171: /lib/ld-linux.so.2: No such file or directory
[01:11] <fabbione> ldd: /lib/ld-linux.so.2 exited with unknown exit code (127)
[01:11] <fabbione> who is that?
[01:11] <fabbione> how even
[01:12] <Riddell> Mithrandir: sure (although currently it's in elmo's direction to sync ttf-dejavu)
[01:17] <fabbione> Mithrandir: isn't ia32-libs supposed to be installed everywhere on amd64?
[01:17] <fabbione> Mithrandir: or do i need to B-D on it?
[01:17] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12/2.6.12.3-2/ <- see amd64 FTBFS
[01:18] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it's priority: optional and not build-essential, no.
[01:18] <fabbione> so what could cause that error?
[01:19] <Mithrandir> probably a missing build-dep on ia32-libs, as you noted.
[01:20] <fabbione> fabbione Mithrandir: or do i need to B-D on it?
[01:20] <fabbione> .. not build-essential, no.
[01:20] <fabbione> i got the last "no" as referred to my B-D question
[01:21] <fabbione> Mithrandir: so is it ok to add it as B-D?
[01:21] <Mithrandir> yeah, except running dpkg-shlibdeps on 32 bit binaries doesn't really give you anything meaningful on amd64.
[01:23] <fabbione> Mithrandir: except that nothing meaningfull will come out anyway, because it's nvidia
[01:23] <Mithrandir> I thought it was fglrx?
[01:24] <fabbione> Mithrandir: they both suffer of the same lameness
[01:24] <Mithrandir> ;-)
[01:24] <daniels> they both install lib32 stuff on amd64
[01:25] <fabbione> ok..
[01:25] <fabbione> let's prepare yet another upload..
[01:25] <Mithrandir> daniels: that doesn't mean the dependencies will be in any way meaningful
[01:25] <daniels> they don't really have to be
[01:30] <HiddenWolf> daniels, is the nvidia-glx version bumped as well with the new l-r-m?
[01:30] <maswan> Mithrandir: just checked, yes, it's there.
[01:31] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > rsync releases.ubuntu.com::ubuntu-releases
[01:31] <Mithrandir> @ERROR: Unknown module 'ubuntu-releases'
[01:31] <Mithrandir> rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1171)
[01:32] <Mithrandir> maswan: hmm, it might be one of the DC servers.
[01:34] <maswan> Mithrandir: ah, fun, they are only called "releases" on the DC servers
[01:35] <maswan> Mithrandir: ftp.acc.umu.se have more releases than just ubuntu though..
[01:35] <Mithrandir> maswan: can you talk to elmo or Znarl about it and work something out?
[01:36] <ogra> sladen, stop filing this weird bugs !!
[01:36] <ogra> :)
[01:37] <maswan> Mithrandir: I guess. Just putting up the same tree under the module ubuntu-releases on the DC servers seems the easiest way to go. I'll try and talk to them. I'm a bit backlogged right now though, so I might not be too active in hunting them down
[01:37] <Mithrandir> maswan: sure
[01:38] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: ????
[01:38] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: i did the last l-r-m uploads...
[01:38] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: what do you mean by bumping nvidia versions?
[01:40] <HiddenWolf> fabbione, is the nvidia driver version newer now? The old one breaks quite horribly for me.
[01:40] <Znarl> maswan : Hello!
[01:42] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: 7667
[01:42] <fabbione> and 7114 (legacy)
[01:43] <HiddenWolf> legacy? they broke it up?
[01:43] <fabbione> no daniels did it
[01:43] <fabbione> anyway it
[01:43] <fabbione> anyway it's not the latest one
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> bah. :( I need to buy a serial cable then.
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> nvidia guy wants me to debug my problem, but I'll need to pull the data off it.
[01:44] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: you can still install the latest one from their site and see if it works
[01:44] <HiddenWolf> Yup, i'll have to try that too.
[01:45] <infinity> nvidia has stopped supporting the older cards in newer drivers, it has nothing to do with daniels.
[01:45] <HiddenWolf> My system hardlocks whenever I try to start x with the nvidia drivers for some reason.
[01:45] <poningru> so why the gay duck?
[01:45] <poningru> err sorry wrong window
[01:46] <HiddenWolf> poningru, dapper drake != gay duck!
[01:46] <fabbione> infinity: daniels did the job.. do you want to take away credits from him? ;)
[01:46] <infinity> He did the job of fixing LRM, but it's nvidia that forced it on him.
[01:46] <infinity> Hence "they broke it up" was an accurate representation.
[01:47] <Lathiat> ++ on the new lrm
[01:47] <fabbione> well i read it as Nvidia did break it in 2
[01:47] <fabbione> Lathiat: ??
[01:47] <Lathiat> i thought legacy was 6629 tho
[01:47] <Lathiat> did they update it?
[01:47] <infinity> The "legacy" driver is for everything from the TNT to the GeForce2, and the other driver is for GeForce3 and up.
[01:48] <Lathiat> ya
[01:48] <herzi> elmo: can you sync alleyoop to fix 2039, please?
[01:48] <poningru> HiddenWolf: it is so dapper drake == gay duck
[01:48] <fabbione> infinity: can you please push your lazy buildd's to munge lrm again? ;)
[01:48] <infinity> fabbione : Read your email.
[01:48] <Lathiat> poningru: Do you have a problem with the concept of homosexuality
[01:49] <poningru> Lathiat: rofl no
[01:49] <poningru> I meant gay as in happy
[01:49] <Lathiat> scapegoat
[01:49] <poningru> hahahaha
[01:49] <poningru> no but what I am worried about is mandrake
[01:49] <poningru> mandrake used drake back in the day
[01:50] <poningru> did our dev team know about this?
[01:50] <fabbione> infinity: i miss something...
[01:51] <maswan> Znarl: Greetings. Did you see the issue about rsync module name for releases.ubuntu.com?
[01:52] <fabbione> 6.8.0-8.14.13-0ubuntu9 and 6.8.0-8.16.20
[01:52] <fabbione> infinity: how can the first one be >= of the second one?
[01:53] <Kamion> poningru: The Hearst trademark that caused Mandrake to change its name was on the whole word "Mandrake" (as in "Mandrake the Magician"), not on the "drake" bit.
[01:54] <Kamion> so that's not a problem
[01:55] <infinity> if dpkg --compare-versions 6.8.0-8.14.13-0ubuntu9 gt 6.8.0-8.16.20; then echo "Ugh"; fi
[01:55] <fabbione> infinity: yes i can see that.. 
[01:55] <infinity> fabbione : I assume because one has two "debian revisions", and the other has one, and dpkg is confused beyond believe about that.
[01:55] <Kamion> fabbione: because the upstream_version and debian_revision parts are compared separately
[01:55] <infinity> s/believe/belief/
[01:56] <Znarl> maswan : Yes, I'll get back to you about it?
[01:56] <fabbione> Kamion: bah
[01:56] <Kamion> fabbione: dpkg compares 6.8.0-8.14.13 with 6.8.0
[01:56] <fabbione> it's a dpkg bug
[01:56] <Kamion> no
[01:56] <infinity> No it's not.
[01:56] <maswan> Znarl: Sure
[01:56] <Kamion> policy specifies it to work that way
[01:56] <infinity> Policy specifies how versoins work.
[01:56] <fabbione> Kamion: shhh! let me push this crap to Keybuk :P
[01:57] <Kamion> and it makes sense, because the first of your two versions has foo_6.8.0-8.14.13.orig.tar.gz and the second has foo_6.8.0.orig.tar.gz
[01:57] <Kamion> the first is clearly newer
[01:57] <Kamion> either add a -0ubuntu1, or add an epoch
[01:57] <fabbione> daniels: how did you manage to break it in this way?
[01:58] <fabbione> Kamion: all the vars are there
[01:58] <fabbione> just not used
[02:03] <terrex> aha, the wine package from winehq.com brings wincfg command instead of obsolete winsetuptk;
[02:04] <fabbione> infinity: did you block the build of -3 ?
[02:04] <infinity> No.
[02:06] <seb128> brb
[02:06] <mbreit> infinity: could you please remove dep-wait on ardour?
[02:06] <infinity> mbreit : Already done.
[02:06] <infinity> mbreit : No need to repeat yourself.
[02:07] <mbreit> infinity: thanks... i thought you did not read the query because i got no feedback... so sorry for repeating..
[02:10] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: building package `xorg-driver-fglrx' in `../xorg-driver-fglrx_6.8.0-8.16.20-0ubuntu4_i386.deb'.
[02:10] <fabbione> this should do
[02:11] <infinity> Certainly sounds less broken.
[02:12] <fabbione> it was lost in on of daniels changes
[02:13] <fabbione> anyway i am off for a whilw
[02:13] <fabbione> while
[02:13] <fabbione> bbl
[02:14] <\sh> mvo: ping
[02:17] <Frafra> exist a version of ubuntu for sparc processor?
[02:17] <ogra> Frafra, ports.ubuntu.com
[02:18] <Frafra> ogra: thanks
[02:19] <lifeless> ah, I know whhg
[02:21] <Frafra> exist an iso image of ubuntu for sparc?
[02:22] <Kamion> not yet no
[02:22] <jdub> Kamion: what do you think about putting version number symlinks (5.04->breezy) in the archive?
[02:22] <Kamion> presumably correct symlinks would be a start? ;-)

[02:23] <Kamion> it's fine by me; I already do that on releases.ubuntu.com
[02:23] <jdub> yeah, that'd help!
[02:23] <jdub> ahya
[02:23] <jdub> ok
[02:26] <Kamion> jdub: dude, you made the same 5.04 mistake on sounder as well :-P
[02:26] <lifeless> where can I check the status of sfs  ? still lamonts home dir ?
[02:26] <jdub> seriously?
[02:26] <jdub> wtf
[02:31] <doko> Mithrandir: what did happen to the proposal to update valgrind to 3.0?
[02:32] <Mithrandir> doko: I think it's sane, but somebody needs to check that it doesn't break kcachegrind or whatever is depending on it
[02:32] <doko> maybe Riddell could do that?
[02:33] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ^^^ ?
[02:33] <doko> Mithrandir: do you have binary packages availabe at some place?
[02:34] <Mithrandir> doko: no, but just rebuilding the ones from Debian works fine.
[02:34] <doko> ok
[02:34] <Mithrandir> doko: that is, I've got amd64 packages, but that doesn't help you when you want to test i386.
[02:35] <Kamion> I thought Riddell already checked that out some time back
[02:35] <\sh> can sombody tell me where to find GLwMDrawA.h? 
[02:35] <doko> \sh: -> packages.ubuntu.com
[02:35] <Kamion> ubuntu-devel-2005-09-01.html:<tr bgcolor="#eeeeee"><td>07:52</td><td><font color="#6e6ed1"><tt>Riddell</tt></font></td><td><tt>jdub: new valgrind looks fine, kcachegrind uses callgrind which doesn't like valgrind 3 but debian doesn't pacakge callgrind so it's no loss.&nbsp;&nbsp;and the kdesdk-scripts rdepend is fine</tt></td></tr>
[02:35] <ogra> \sh, apt-file ?
[02:36] <\sh> ogra: gave me the wrong answer..but it should be somewhere in the libgl* area...but I don't see it
[02:36] <infinity> mbreit : ardour is FTBFS.
[02:36] <mbreit> infinity: i see it... but it really worked in pbuilder yesterday
[02:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok; i'll ask for a sync from elmo then, since I'm writing him a mail already
[02:36] <\sh> apt-file after update: nothing ;)
[02:36] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yep, go ahead
[02:38] <Kamion> somebody will need to keep a careful eye on it, though, since it's a late big version increase
[02:38] <lifeless> hmm, several things wnt camel1.2-3, others wnat 1.2-6.
[02:38] <lifeless> why is libcamel versioned by named and not version number ?
[02:39] <\sh> gnarf...old location was xlibmesa-gl-dev...
[02:39] <Mithrandir> lifeless: because some people think that the version number of the package should be in the soname, rather than having a soname which is a single integer.
[02:39] <Kamion> lifeless: presumably because that's when the ABI changes?
[02:40] <lifeless> Kamion: I have this sinking feeling that they bump ABI without bumping soname. 
[02:40] <lifeless> Mithrandir: sounds dubious
[02:41] <lifeless> where should I go to check on the status of sfs-client ?
[02:41] <Mithrandir> lifeless: hmm, they're actually doing that too.
[02:41] <Frafra> exist a package for libgplflash2 for amd64
[02:41] <lifeless> Mithrandir: well that explains why they conflict with each other. eek.
[02:41] <Frafra> ?
[02:42] <ogra> Frafra, libflash0c2
[02:43] <Frafra> ogra: thanks!
[02:44] <Frafra> can i use this lib for play flash animation on firefox?
[02:45] <ogra> Frafra, rather libflash-mozplugin
[02:45] <ogra> Frafra, but you dont want that ... it crashes every now and ten
[02:45] <Frafra> ok
[02:46] <Kamion> ogra: re #15244, what bit of ltsp-server actually starts sshd? I can't find it
[02:46] <Kamion> ltsp-server only Recommends: openssh-server
[02:46] <ogra> Kamion, the ligon manager ldm
[02:46] <ogra> heh, login indeed
[02:46] <Kamion> that starts ssh, not sshd
[02:46] <ogra> err, yes...
[02:47] <Frafra> yes, it crash :D i've try macromedia test flash and it crash :)
[02:47] <ogra> wait a sec
[02:48] <Frafra> but libflash-mozplugin use libflash0c2 or the old gplflash (that support flash 4)?
[02:48] <ogra> Kamion, none atm... sshd is just a dependency, looks like mdz just relies on the fact that it gets started if installed
[02:49] <ogra> Kamion, so i guess some postinst magic in ltsp-server.postinst or ltsp-server-standalone.postionst is needed
[02:49] <Kamion> ugh, I'd rather it shut down ssh properly really
[02:50] <Kamion> surely kill -HUP'ing the client would suffice
[02:52] <ogra> Kamion, thats done in ldm... 
[02:52] <dholbach> pitti: did you ask for a centericq sync already?
[02:52] <Kamion> hmm, oh yeah, there's that ghastly kill -1 $PPID hack on the other end
[02:52] <pitti> dholbach: no
[02:52] <Kamion> it obviously does not work properly
[02:52] <dholbach> pitti: i will do so
[02:54] <herzi> dholbach: can you ask for alleyoop too?
[02:56] <Kamion> ogra: what way are you closing the ltsp session?
[02:56] <Kamion> it must not be by exiting the session manager
[02:56] <Kamion> because it doesn't matter that the ssh session stays open - it's the session manager you want to kill really
[02:56] <ogra> Kamion, i guess it is by closing the session manager...
[02:57] <ogra> Kamion, ldm starts a normal gnome-session... you log out there and X restarts on the client...
[02:57] <Kamion> but then there would be no problem, because the session would not be running any more
[02:57] <Kamion> surely?
[02:57] <Kamion> in what way does the relogin attempt fail?
[02:58] <ogra> i cant get any login... i'll have to try it to give you exact data... but looking on the server the ssh session persists even without any trace of gnome-session
[02:59] <Kamion> that doesn't matter
[02:59] <ogra> after ~30 sec it disappears
[02:59] <Kamion> the ssh session is innocuous by itself; it must be something else
[02:59] <\sh> default tcp timeout
[02:59] <Kamion> \sh: yes we know
[02:59] <Kamion> that was where the bug started ;)
[02:59] <\sh> Kamion: I discussed the bug with ogra ;)
[03:00] <ogra> \sh, if you force the quitting it shouldnt hang the 30 sec... thats the prob
[03:00] <Kamion> \sh: it's still irrelevant; it doesn't matter when sshd exits, unless there's something else it's taking down with it
[03:00] <Kamion> perhaps a forwarded X session
[03:01] <ogra> we only forward the desktop session, X runs on the client...
[03:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 7694 seems to be invalid/fixed already?
[03:01] <ogra> so it can only be gnome-session or something related to it
[03:02] <Kamion> ogra: yes, that's how X forwarding normally works ;-)
[03:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not fixed because nothing has changed
[03:03] <ogra> Kamion, but i think mdz assume that 'kill -1 $PPID' cleans that up... probably the right replacement would do it already...
[03:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: maybe invalid, but I can sort of see the submitter's point
[03:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well it's intended behaviour.
[03:03] <Kamion> well, not necessarily
[03:03] <Mithrandir> it should bump the priority back up again, though
[03:03] <Kamion> if you encounter an error during partitioning and subsequently fix up your partitioning to be right, maybe the debconf priority shouldn't remain as low as it currently does
[03:04] <Kamion> ogra: there's some other fundamental issue though I think
[03:04] <Kamion> perhaps an sshd bug
[03:04] <ogra> Kamion, i guess $PPID might be wrong... and the wrong process is killed...
[03:04] <Kamion> or maybe the greeter does not exit properly
[03:04] <Kamion> ogra: $PPID looks OK when I try it out here
[03:05] <ogra> hmm, it restarts the whole X server...
[03:05] <Kamion> but in any case you really should not have to kill the sshd child to make logout work right
[03:05] <ogra> so there shoudlnt be reaminings
[03:05] <Kamion> X server runs on the client, has nothing direct to do with what's running on the LTSP server
[03:05] <Kamion> only via ssh
[03:05] <mjg59> Hmm.
[03:05] <Kamion> this is why I need to know what's running on the server and what the error is
[03:06] <mjg59> jbailey: Are network card drivers loaded before swsusp resume?
[03:06] <ogra> Kamion, i'll do some tests and follow up on the bug
[03:06] <jbailey> mjg59: Yes.  Any driver present in the initramfs is currently loaded.
[03:07] <jbailey> mjg59: That would need to be the case for *puke* suspend over *puke* nbd anyway.
[03:07] <Kamion> ogra: thanks
[03:07] <jbailey> (Not that it's a supported case right now)
[03:07] <mjg59> jbailey: We can absolutely and entirely ignore that case
[03:07] <jbailey> mjg59: Promise? =)
[03:07] <mjg59> jbailey: I worry that 14790 may be an issue
[03:09] <jbailey> mjg59: feh.
[03:09] <jbailey> mjg59: So what keeps HDD drivers from sucking on resume, since everything else clearly does?
[03:10] <mjg59> No idea
[03:10] <Mithrandir> jdub: what's the status of 7514?
[03:10] <mjg59> Hm. Well, not strictly true. The PCI controller is in the same state either side of the suspend/resume
[03:12] <jdub> Mithrandir: was just talking to Kamion about that before - he's going to try the usplash image to see if it rocks on ISOLINUX
[03:12] <jbailey> mjg59: I'm more wondering if there's some sort of a reset that ought to happen *anyway* to make sure that the HDD controller is actually in a good state.
[03:13] <jbailey> Like, are we just hiding the problem in this case?
[03:13] <jdub> Sep 15 07:38:59 ubuntu kernel: [4923491.447000]  init_special_inode: bogus i_mode (177777)
[03:13] <jdub> ^ what does that mean?
[03:13] <Mithrandir> jdub: ook
[03:13] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:49 ubuntu kernel: [4678575.291000]  hda: dma_timer_expiry: dma statu
[03:13] <jdub> s == 0x21
[03:13] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:55 ubuntu kernel: [4678585.291000]  hda: DMA timeout error
[03:13] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:55 ubuntu kernel: [4678585.291000]  hda: dma timeout error: status=0
[03:14] <jdub> xd0 { Busy }
[03:14] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:55 ubuntu kernel: [4678585.291000] 
[03:14] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:55 ubuntu kernel: [4678585.291000]  ide: failed opcode was: unknown
[03:14] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:55 ubuntu kernel: [4678585.291000]  hda: DMA disabled
[03:14] <jdub> Sep 12 11:37:55 ubuntu kernel: [4678585.341000]  ide0: reset: success
[03:14] <jdub> 
[03:14] <jdub> and that?
[03:14] <jdub> is it megabackup time? :)
[03:14] <zul> i would say yes
[03:14] <jdub> ber.
[03:14] <jdub> i should probably replace the drive before my trip, then, too
[03:15] <mbreit> infinity: ping
[03:21] <Kamion> what part of '-background black' do you not understand?
[03:21] <Treenaks> Kamion: the imagick manpages are notoriously bad
[03:22] <Kamion> I know, I'm using its HTML documentation
[03:22] <Kamion> the man pages used to be much better before they were (for some reason) eviscerated
[03:28] <HiddenWolf> lol, malone bug #1 is _the best bug ever_
[03:28] <jbailey> Kamion: Just use mogrify instead.
[03:28] <jbailey> Kamion: Convert I think is just one format to another.
[03:31] <sivang> HiddenWolf: that the MS market share one?
[03:31] <HiddenWolf> sivang, yup
[03:31] <sivang> hehe
[03:49] <bddebian> Hello
[03:50] <Whistler> hi
[03:52] <elmo> meh, nvidia-legacy?!
[03:52] <bddebian> Hi elmo :-)
[03:52] <bob2> haha
[03:59] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, thanks for correcting the problem in g-s-t with the POTFILE. But now... how to make the regenerated POT reach Rosetta?
[03:59] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: it looks like the rosetta people are all on vacation, g-s-t is not yet imported :/
[04:00] <Kamion> jbailey: mogrify is convert but in-place.
[04:00] <Kamion> (and seems to have the same overwrites-the-background-colour problem)
[04:00] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: that used to be bug #1 in our old disused Canonical-internal Bugzilla, too. :-)
[04:00] <sivang> Kamion: lol
[04:01] <sivang> Kamion: back on the no-name-yet.com days?
[04:01] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, great attitude. :)
[04:01] <\sh> mvo: what's up with g-a-i and psi?
[04:02] <bob2> sivang: yes
[04:02] <bob2> before no-name-yet, even
[04:02] <mvo> \sh: it is installable again it seems?
[04:02] <\sh> mvo: sure since yesterday 
[04:02] <Kamion> sivang: as bob2 says, before that - bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com
[04:03] <mvo> \sh: then there is nothing up with g-a-i and psi (except you tell me about a new problem :)
[04:03] <Kamion> we still have some services that live in /srv/<blah>.no-name-yet.com/
[04:03] <\sh> mvo: not that I know of :) I resynced with debian and adjusted the desktop file to use no-gpg-agent
[04:04] <mvo> \sh: great, the motus did a wonderfull job in cleaning up the unmetDepends list. psi can be removed from the wiki page
[04:05] <\sh> mvo: we're fighting against the time and broken sources
[04:05] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, the synaptic updated pt_PT.po I sent you was not good for inclusion? It isn't in your last upload of synaptic.
[04:06] <mvo> \sh: yeah, I know. I really mean it, you are all doing a great job 
[04:06] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, hhmm... wait a minute... apt-get source synaptic downloaded ....5 not. .... 6
[04:06] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: I think I included it?
[04:06] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: please beat me if I haven't (but not too hard)
[04:07] <WaterSevenUb> mvo, I think my mirror or something is not updated yet ;) 
[04:09] <\sh> hmm...looks like I have to prepare some text for the BOFs
[04:09] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: my changelog says pt_PT is included, but if you double check it when it hits your mirror that would be nice
[04:16] <\sh> seb128: ping libmms should hit universe and then main? 
[04:17] <\sh> seb128: _before_ breezy release?
[04:26] <fabbione> elmo: yes
[04:26] <fabbione> elmo: can you please new it?
[04:31] <pablof> how can i set default values for question boot ? 
[04:32] <Kamion> pablof: please expand; that question doesn't make sense to me
[04:33] <pablof> i want set default language and keyboard on boot
[04:34] <Kamion> and ideally don't ask the same question in #debian-boot and #ubuntu-devel near-simultaneously without clarifying which distribution you're actually using :-)
[04:34] <Kamion> 'd-i debian-installer/locale string en_US', 'd-i kbd-chooser/method select us' in a preseed file
[04:34] <Kamion> (for instance)
[04:35] <HWolf> Guys, I just dist-upgraded, then rebooted, and my system is now almost unworkably slow/jitterish.
[04:35] <pablof> ok, i am using ubuntu.
[04:36] <HWolf> *reboot*
[04:37] <pablof> where i find out this docs ?
[04:38] <Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs01.html except that it's a bit out of date, unfortunately in particular for the two things you're asking about :)
[04:38] <Kamion> er :( not :)
[04:39] <HWolf> seb128, ping
[04:40] <HWolf> daniels, ping
[04:43] <mjg59> No
[04:45] <HiddenWolf> Is any of you aware of an update today that could result in mouse events being treated as doubleclicks / turn gnome into something skitterish?
[04:46] <slomo_> seb128: ping
[04:47] <sladen> HiddenWolf: what laptop---I have that onthe R31 without i8042.nomux
[04:47] <HiddenWolf> sladen, desktop
[04:47] <sladen> HiddenWolf: originally there was also a problem with events appearing twice;  once via dev/input and once directly
[04:48] <HiddenWolf> sladen, how do I check if this is the case for me?
[04:48] <sladen> HiddenWolf: try commenting out one of the pointer entries in your xorg.conf and file a bug if that fixes it
[04:48] <HiddenWolf> sladen, pionter entries?
[04:48] <pablof> Kamion: I added those parameters in the archive server.seed, but they had not effect
[04:49] <Kamion> pablof: oh, sorry, you can't put those two in a preseed file because the preseed file is only read later
[04:50] <Kamion> pablof: just boot with 'debian-installer/locale=en_US kbd-chooser/method=us' or whatever on the kernel command line
[04:50] <sladen> HiddenWolf: in /etc/X11/xorg.conf  comment out          InputDevice     "Synaptics Touchpad"
[04:50] <HiddenWolf> sladen, I'm using a _desktop_ system. ImPS/2 mouse
[04:50] <sladen> HiddenWolf: I know.  You did say that before.
[04:51] <zyga> hello :)
[04:51] <slomo_> elmo: ping? my ubuntu.com email address was a loopback before... now i corrected this but it seems the cronjob doesn't update it to the correct email address now
[04:51] <sladen> HiddenWolf: then try commenting out the 'Generic' entry on the line above and see if either of those help
[04:51] <Kamion> BenC: is the nls_utf8 addition to fs-common-modules on powerpc queued for the next kernel upload? I'd like to revert the temporary installer hack I applied to work around that.
[04:51] <sladen> HiddenWolf: is the pointer you're using  USB or PS/2 or ADB?
[04:51] <HiddenWolf> There are 2 imput devices in my xorg.conf. "Generic Keyboard" and "Configured Mouse"
[04:51] <HiddenWolf> sladen, USB
[04:52] <pablof> ok
[04:52] <sladen> HiddenWolf: is your BIOS doing USB->PS/2 emulation
[04:53] <HiddenWolf> sladen: not aware of that; xorg.conf -> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2204
[04:53] <elmo> slomo_: slomo@ubuntu.com should work AFAICS?
[04:54] <sladen> HiddenWolf: intersting, we can discount those then
[04:55] <HiddenWolf> sladen, single clicking on gaim icon in tray results in it popping open/closed 3 times, that kind of behavior.
[04:55] <slomo_> elmo: i had this as my LP address until yesterday... someone told me that this is bad ;) and i want it to forward to another address now so i set another address as my default LP address and nothing happened yet
[04:55] <bddebian> slomo_: Don't feel bad, I can't get any @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses to work. ;'-(
[04:55] <Kamion> BenC: hmm, actually if you could just put it into hfs-modules then that should work
[04:55] <Kamion> BenC: echo nls_utf8 >> debian/d-i/powerpc/modules/powerpc/hfs-modules
[04:56] <sladen> HiddenWolf: 6 clicks?
[04:56] <elmo> slomo@ubuntu.com mail@slomosnail.de
[04:57] <bddebian> elmo: Would you mind looking at mine if you get a second?
[04:57] <HiddenWolf> sladen, can't really be sure, ot
[04:57] <HiddenWolf> sladen, it's erratic
[04:57] <slomo_> elmo: yes... then it's correct now, thanks :)
[04:57] <sladen> HiddenWolf: do you have any other USB mice you could try (from another computer perhaps)
[04:57] <sladen> HiddenWolf: what happens if you unplug + replug the mouse?
[04:58] <daniels> HiddenWolf: no, it isn't
[04:58] <HiddenWolf> sladen, no other mice, no effect
[04:58] <\sh> ah daniels 
[04:58] <\sh> good to see u...
[04:58] <\sh> daniels: got my mail? :)
[04:59] <daniels> yeah
[04:59] <daniels> i don't think we build libglw at all anymore
[04:59] <\sh> daniels: but we need it...for grass e.g.
[04:59] <daniels> you're the first person to notice
[04:59] <HiddenWolf> daniels, all I know is that my desktop just turned to randomly twitching on mouse clicks
[04:59] <\sh> daniels: i know..;) 
[05:00] <daniels> HiddenWolf: 'randomly twitching'?
[05:00] <zyga> daniels: I've got a question about libdps1 in breezy (it's gone)
[05:00] <HiddenWolf> daniels, sometimes a click is just a click, sometimes it is 2/3 clicks.
[05:00] <bddebian> zyga: Yes
[05:00] <\sh> daniels: any solution for it? 
[05:01] <zyga> bddebian: why is it gone?
[05:02] <sladen> HiddenWolf: always a left click---or allows the key you clicked?
[05:02] <HiddenWolf> sladen, happens only on left clicks.
[05:02] <daniels> HiddenWolf: uhm.  what sort of mouse?
[05:03] <daniels> zyga: because it never, ever worked
[05:03] <HiddenWolf> daniels, MS explorer. imPS/2
[05:03] <daniels> HiddenWolf: *shrug*, either kernel bug or hardware bug; nothing in xorg has changed like that recently.
[05:03] <daniels> zyga: there has never been any freely-licensed server implementation of DPS
[05:03] <daniels> zyga: so if you app uses DPS, it either would've refused to start (in the case of texteroids, e.g.), or not enabled DPS support.  so it's no loss.
[05:03] <HiddenWolf> sladen, any idea?
[05:04] <mvo> Diziet: could you please have a look at #13750?
[05:05] <HiddenWolf> daniels, what info would be needed to debug?
[05:05] <sladen> HiddenWolf: if you can't find another mouse.  take apart the one you have a blow any crap away from the left microswitch
[05:06] <daniels> HiddenWolf: uhm, I guess the output from cat /dev/input/mice when licking
[05:06] <daniels> clicking, whatever
[05:06] <sladen> HiddenWolf: and/or stick that mouse in another machine and is if it happens on tha tmachine?
[05:07] <HiddenWolf> daniels, I can't see any intelligable data coming out of /dev/input/mice.
[05:08] <daniels> HiddenWolf: right.  it's more volume of data, I suppose.
[05:08] <sladen> HiddenWolf: sudo hexdump -C /dev/input/muce
[05:08] <sladen> HiddenWolf: sudo hexdump -C /dev/input/mice
[05:09] <HiddenWolf> sladen, daniels, should I pastebin that?
[05:09] <bddebian> zyga: I think it was dropped in Debian iirc. But don't quote me
[05:10] <sladen> HiddenWolf: sudo head -c 18 /dev/input/mice  | hexdump -C
[05:11] <sladen> HiddenWolf: and then press the mouse *once*.  0x09 == left down;  0x08 == left up  how many do you see?
[05:11] <HiddenWolf> sladen, 3 down, 3 up, some 00
[05:12] <sladen> HiddenWolf: so by that time there's already 3 clicks.  I suspect your mouse isn't debouncing...
[05:12] <bob2> firefox 1.5 seems snappier
[05:13] <HiddenWolf> sladen, now I only see 1 and one. :(
[05:14] <HiddenWolf> If I monitor /dev/input/mice I get perfect behavior. when i'm not, it messes up.
[05:14] <sladen> HiddenWolf: do   -c 6  if you only want to see the first two events (down + up).  -c 18  is the first 6 events
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> sladen, that's ok, down, up
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> sladen, it behaves a few clicks, then goes random again.
[05:17] <seb128> HiddenWolf, slomo_: pong
[05:17] <HiddenWolf> seb128, nm
[05:17] <sladen> HiddenWolf: IMHO, I alledge that your mouse is fubared.  Can you visit/borrow another one to tell whether this is the case
[05:17] <seb128> \sh: ? I've said that it needs to be moved to build gst-plugins0.8 with it, who said before 5.10?
[05:18] <HiddenWolf> sladen, I'll reboot to the other OS, check it out.
[05:18] <HiddenWolf> that should prove it.
[05:18] <slomo_> seb128: shawarma told me you probably want libmms in main for breezy because of gst-plugins? if it's too much hassle i could add it the gst-plugins-multiverse and we can leave it in universe for breezy
[05:19] <mjg59> pitti: Around?
[05:19] <pitti> mjg59: yes
[05:19] <mjg59> pitti: alsa-utils query
[05:19] <mjg59> pitti: the sanify routine in the init script mutes "Headphone jack sense"
[05:20] <\sh> seb128: I quote in query
[05:20] <seb128> slomo_: I thought to that, but I would avoid to have to fork for Debian to put some Replaces on gst-plugins-multiverse
[05:20] <pitti> mjg59: no idea what that is
[05:20] <mjg59> pitti: Looking at 2.6.12, that'll be off by default except for whitelisted hardware
[05:20] <seb128> \sh: maybe you are not registred?
[05:20] <seb128> \sh: no query 
[05:20] <mjg59> pitti: Some hardware can tell when you've plugged in headphones
[05:20] <mjg59> pitti: We want it enabled on HP laptops. I'm doing the kernel changes that are necessary for that, but we'd have to lose the unconditional muting of it
[05:21] <pitti> mjg59: that sounds sane
[05:21] <slomo_> seb128: would we need replaces when debian has it? debian's version would always be higher than the multiverse one (-0ubuntuX vs -1 or something)
[05:21] <mjg59> pitti: Any objections to just removing that? Should be safe on 2.6.11 and higher
[05:22] <pitti> mjg59: no, that's fine
[05:22] <seb128> slomo_: if a file move from one package to an another you have to replaces the previous container
[05:22] <mjg59> (I've just spent ages wondering why it didn't work by default after my kernel changes, and then found that alsa-utils is run by udev...)
[05:22] <mjg59> pitti: Ok. Do you want to do that, or shall I?
[05:22] <seb128> slomo_: gstreamer0.8-misc would have to replaces the multiverse package
[05:22] <pitti> mjg59: if you have time for it, go ahead
[05:22] <pitti> mjg59: if not, I put it on my list (bit busy right now)
[05:22] <slomo_> seb128: ah sure... sorry, didn't really thought about it :/ hmm... so no support for it currently? or what do you suggest?
[05:23] <Diziet> mvo: Reading 13750 now.
[05:23] <mjg59> pitti: I can do that now
[05:23] <\sh> daniels: any solution for GLw stuff?
[05:23] <seb128> slomo_: I suggest to package it, make a wiki page, get it moved to main and then make gst-plugins0.8 using it
[05:24] <HWolf> sladen, right, mouse is messed up
[05:24] <slomo_> seb128: ok... but that won't happen for breezy probably :( libmms will probably be voted for universe this evening
[05:24] <seb128> slomo_: why not? 
[05:25] <seb128> slomo_: moving a package to main is not that many work
[05:25] <Diziet> mvo: When they say the Debian package includes this embedding support, does that mean that one of our (Debian or Ubuntu) patches to 1.0.6 is to do that ?  That seems unlikely.
[05:25] <sladen> HWolf: dude.  now take it apart with a screw-driver and give it a good blow.
[05:25] <slomo_> seb128: it's only a half month until release and i thought main is frozen for everything except bugfixes ;) but well, when you say it could be done... let's try it :)
[05:25] <HWolf> sladen, I would, but there are no screws.
[05:26] <niemeyer> hi, lifeless here.
[05:26] <daniels> \sh: not really at the moment sorry, aside from 'don't
[05:26] <daniels> '
[05:26] <niemeyer> I need a hand, after upgrade, X hates me, at the ont-start level of hate
[05:26] <niemeyer> daniels: good timing, you being up and all
[05:26] <daniels> also me going to sleep about now and all ...
[05:26] <seb128> slomo_: that not a change to any current feature or a new apps ... that just an extra file to support mms, could be considered imho
[05:26] <sladen> HWolf: I'm out of ideas.  Try a sledgehammer.
[05:26] <mvo> Diziet: I'm not really familar with the ff package, but we definitly include the  gtkmozembed stuff 
[05:27] <zyga> daniels: Maya 7.0 uses that library and works correctly
[05:27] <niemeyer> daniels: erk. can I bribe you ?
[05:27] <zyga> mvo: hey :)
[05:27] <daniels> niemeyer: not at the moment, sorry.  you could bribe me to not go to bed, but the only difference there is that I'll be passed out on the couch instead, with my laptop open.
[05:27] <zyga> mvo: I'll talk to you later - lot's of work ATM
[05:27] <niemeyer> daniels: can you at least point me at likely issues ?
[05:28] <slomo_> seb128: ok... i'll tell him to write a main inclusion report later ;)
[05:28] <daniels> zyga: okay, then it's not actually using DPS, it's just linking against the library.  trust me when I say that it's utterly useless.
[05:28] <niemeyer> daniels: I am completely fucked right now
[05:28] <mvo> zyga: sure
[05:28] <Diziet> mvo: heh, I'm not that familiar with it either :-).
[05:28] <daniels> niemeyer: um, Xorg.0.log should tell you what's up.  i fixed this a while ago, but if your keyboard driver is "keyboard", try changing it to "kbd"; shouldn't still be an issue but whatever.
[05:28] <mvo> Diziet: aren't you the new maintainer ;) ?
[05:28] <zyga> daniels: that's good to know, I'll try to build a dummy library and see if maya works in breezy, thanks
[05:28] <daniels> niemeyer: other than that, I don't know of any upgrade issues offhand, sorry
[05:28] <Diziet> What's that got to do with it ? :-)
[05:29] <bob2> niemeyer: a 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' magically unfucked my X this afternoon after upgrade
[05:29] <Diziet> Do we have any users (including Ubuntu-using developers) who want this embeddable mozilla ?
[05:29] <niemeyer> daniels: thanks, if I can get at the console to try stuff, Ill check that
[05:29] <niemeyer> bob2: thanks
[05:30] <Diziet> I mean, if it's just a question of shipping some config file that doesn't sound too hard.  But we ought to be able to check to see whether we've done it right.
[05:30] <niemeyer> right now, Ive just got a corrupt-looking gdm failure screen that will not react, with ctrl-alt-f1 etc broken too
[05:30] <slomo_> seb128: btw... gst-plugins-multiverse currently ships two plugins which could probably be in debian in the future... dirac and wavpack. i'm just waiting for the stuff to stabilize and then wanted to search some DD
[05:30] <zyga> x.org just got upgraded in hoary, wow :)
[05:31] <daniels> zyga: not so great.  security update.
[05:31] <mvo> Diziet: yeah, checking now 
[05:31] <seb128> slomo_: they could be built from gst-plugins0.8?
[05:31] <Diziet> Ta.
[05:31] <Diziet> If you have more info, add it to the bug report.  Or we could chat to the submitter by email or something.  (Bugzilla is such a sucky messaging system.)
[05:32] <slomo_> seb128: when i get someone to upload the dirac and wavpack libraries to debian... yes. there seems to be nothing suspect with the libraries, no ugly patents, good licenses etc
[05:33] <mjg59> elmo: Hm. I don't seem to be able to reach upload.ubuntu.com
[05:33] <mjg59> Oh, no, sorry - this is because I'm suffering massive packet loss
[05:35] <mjg59> Oh, FFS.
[05:35] <mjg59> I've been slashdotted.
[05:36] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, enjoy. ;)
[05:36] <pitti> mdz: I fixed some pmount bugs and did a new upstream microrelease for that; any objections to just uploading it?
[05:36] <jdub> mjg59: you hosted it locally?
[05:36] <mjg59> jdub: Yes
[05:36] <jdub> *d'oh*
[05:37] <jdub> buh bye! :-)
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: see pmount question above - can you approve this as well?
[05:37] <mjg59> jdub: If this is your fault, I'm going to beat you to death with your shoes
[05:38] <Diziet> mjg: Can I help ?  I mean, I could cycle over, collect the data, upload it to chiark, and you could switch the DNS somehow.
[05:39] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, what are you hosting?
[05:39] <mjg59> Diziet: Not a bad idea - there's only 304K, though
[05:39] <mjg59> Hang on, I'll see if I can scp it to chiark
[05:39] <HiddenWolf> sladen, ping
[05:39] <mjg59> I've disabled apache for now, that seems to have made things better
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: if they fit within feature freeze criteria, that's fine
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: it fixes a major bug, a normal one, and has updated translations
[05:40] <Diziet> mjg: Let me know what you want me to do to chiark's setup, at the appropriate point.
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: no new features
[05:40] <mjg59> Diziet: dcc.tar.bz2 in ~mgarrett
[05:40] <mjg59> Which ought to be www.dccalliance.biz
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: erm, two normal ones actually
[05:41] <Diziet> mjg: Right.  Mind if I become you with su to set it up in your filespace ?
[05:41] <Diziet> And, you can change the DNS right away.  This'll only take a minute or two.
[05:41] <mjg59> Diziet: No problem
[05:42] <Diziet> ls: /u2/mgarrett/dcc.tar.bz2: No such file or directory
[05:42] <jsgotangco> oh yeah you've been slashdotted alright
[05:42] <mjg59> Oops - /tmp (force of habit)
[05:43] <Diziet> /tmp ?!
[05:44] <mjg59> Ok, DNS is good
[05:44] <Diziet> /u2/mgarrett/dcc.tar.bz2: gzip compressed data, deflated, last modified: Thu Sep 15 16:39:36 2005, os: Unix
[05:44] <dilinger> pitti: hey, do you know anything about CAN-2005-1761?
[05:44] <mjg59> Yup
[05:44] <pitti> dilinger: yes
[05:44] <dilinger> pitti: has its details been made public yet?
[05:45] <Diziet> mjg: Is there a webmaster@ ?
[05:45] <dilinger> pitti: i can't message you because i'm not registered
[05:45] <pitti> dilinger: did you get my /msg?
[05:45] <Kamion> pitti: sounds reasonable; go ahead
[05:45] <mjg59> Diziet: @dccalliance.biz? Yup.
[05:45] <dilinger> pitti: yep
[05:45] <pitti> dilinger: I did not find the corresponding 2.6 patch yet
[05:46] <dilinger> pitti: alright, thanks
[05:47] <Diziet> mjg: Now seems to be serving that.
[05:48] <Diziet> Do you need it on http://dccalliance.biz too ?
[05:48] <mjg59> Nope, that's fine
[05:48] <mjg59> Thanks!
[05:48] <Diziet> NP
[05:49] <dilinger> pitti: http://kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=0a65800243742480b4b594b619b759749a3cfef4
[05:49] <dilinger> i suspect the fix is in there
[05:49] <jsgotangco> hrmm you actually got linked from zdnet too
[05:50] <Diziet> What's the TTL on the old RRs ?
[05:50] <Diziet> Looks like 86400 on the new ones.
[05:50] <Diziet> You could get your apache to redirect; that might help.
[05:50] <pitti> dilinger: omg, compared to the 2.4 fix, this is huuuge...
[05:51] <dilinger> pitti: i think "rewrite" in the description accurately describes it :)
[05:51] <Diziet> Although it would mean spoiling the URLs.
[05:52] <Diziet> Why oh why oh why do we have _two_ gnomeish vim packages, which _conflict_ with each other (unlike every other kind of bizarre vi variant) ?
[05:53] <highvoltage> hi guys. i asked other channels, but couldn't find an answer. where can I find a copy of the ubuntu manifesto?
[05:53] <Diziet> And they conflict with vim too.  Bizarre.
[05:55] <netstar> Anyone working on breezy ppc32/64?
[05:55] <mdz> pitti: no objection
[05:56] <pitti> mdz: ok, thanks
[05:56] <dilinger> pitti: how about CAN-2005-0757?
[05:56] <pitti> mdz: Good morning! :-)
[05:56] <jdub> highvoltage: look at ubuntu.com front page (which itself is the first hit in google)
[05:56] <netstar> I'm having serious issues with X, and I'm not sure if it's a problem with the xorg packages, my kernel or x nv drivers...CPU load for simple window movements is unbelievable...
[05:56] <mdz> Kamion: the PPID hack works for me; what happens for you?
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: -> ogra
[05:57] <mdz> jdub,mvo,fabbione: pong
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: (I don't have an LTSP setup yet; it's ogra who's having problems)
[05:57] <mdz> oh
[05:57] <Kamion> namely #15244
[05:57] <mvo> mdz: already send you a mail
[05:57] <Kamion> netstar: what's the problem?
[05:57] <mvo> good morning btw
[05:57] <jbailey> netstar: I'm using the stock ati drivers with my two ppc systems and I'm not seeing a problem.
[05:58] <lifeless> wow, that was a tough upgrade
[05:58] <lifeless> jdub: up ?
[05:58] <mdz> Kamion: it should work fine on a normal logout; I guess he's talking about killing the X server?
[05:58] <pitti> dilinger: hm, it's on my ignore list
[05:58] <jdub> lifeless: stupidly, yes.
[05:58] <jbailey> netstar: It's probably worth filing a bug.
[05:58] <jdub> lifeless: have a really horrible cold.
[05:58] <Kamion> mdz: I don't know; I couldn't get exact details from him
[05:58] <netstar> Extremely high cpu load for simple window movements.  For example when gdm loads I can literally watch it paint the background image onto the screen.
[05:58] <lifeless> jdub: ouch
[05:59] <Kamion> cairo, perhaps?
[05:59] <lifeless> jdub: why does the stiky note applet not let me hide its notes anymore ?
[05:59] <netstar> This is not an issue I have had when using earlier yellowdog releases.
[05:59] <Kamion> does non-gtk stuff exhibit the same problem?
[05:59] <jdub> lifeless: no idea
[05:59] <Amaranth> gtg
[05:59] <lifeless> mdz: do you want upgrade reports to ubuntu-devel, or is there some other place ?
[05:59] <lamont__> pitti: it says I don't have permission to view the CVE report (launchpad).  fix that.  kthxbye
[06:00] <dilinger> pitti: ok.  downloading the RHEL kernel sources now, i'll see whether it's 2.4-only
[06:00] <netstar> Kamion, I havene't tried.  Are newer gtk+2's really much more CPU intensive than say gnome 2.6 and the gtk at that time?
[06:00] <Kamion> netstar: gtk 2.8 uses cairo as a backend, which is a vector graphics library
[06:00] <mdz> lifeless: ubuntu-devel is fine
[06:00] <Kamion> some people have reported slowdowns with that, although I think not as dramatic as yours
[06:00] <lifeless> mdz: ok. I have a few things that are likely me-being newbish. documetning now
[06:01] <pitti> lamont__: hmm?
[06:01] <netstar> perhaps I should try a non-gtk window manager and environment
[06:01] <sladen> cairo is slightly slower that treacle on a cold morning
[06:01] <netstar> lol
[06:01] <lamont__> pitti: I was assuming that the CVE report is security-team stuff...
[06:02] <lamont__> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+cve
[06:02] <jdub> Kamion: unlikely this stuff (which is coming up a fair bit) is cairo
[06:02] <netstar> jdub, you been hearing the same regarding X on ppc32/64?
[06:03] <jdub> it has been coming up generally
[06:03] <sladen> It takes about a second for GDM to draw the background on these laptops---very noticeable top-to-bottom blitting
[06:03] <netstar> sladen, that's the same I am getting
[06:03] <pitti> lamont__: I don't have permission to change members
[06:04] <sladen> netstar: I think that's just the alpha-blending+scaling gdm is using being slow
[06:04] <sladen> netstar: pretend it's a feature.
[06:04] <netstar> It shouldn't be THAT slow though.  What is the spec of your machines?
[06:05] <pitti> dilinger: nothing in my email archives either
[06:05] <lamont__> pitti: sigh
[06:05] <netstar> I'm running imac G5 1.8ghz with 768MB ram.
[06:05] <seb128> slomo_: but they are uploaded to ubuntu? universe or main? did you do a wiki package to move them from universe?
[06:05] <slomo_> seb128: universe... and no, i want them to be more stable and mature first
[06:06] <bddebian> elmo: ping?
[06:06] <jdub> sladen: that's not a particularly useful comment - this is a regression from previous releases. make it clear.
[06:06] <seb128> slomo_: k
[06:07] <dilinger> pitti: heh, have you ever looked at a RHEL srpm package?  they do awful things..
[06:07] <pitti> dilinger: no, I didn't
[06:07] <dilinger> they've backported xattr stuff.  instead of including the fix in a separate patch, they've simply rediffed the entire backport patch
[06:07] <pitti> dilinger: maybe they just did an error when backporting
[06:07] <dilinger> that's what i'm guessing
[06:08] <seb128> lifeless: you need to click out of the notes somewhere
[06:09] <lifeless> seb128: oh, so its magic now ?
[06:09] <pitti> dilinger: hey, I found something: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=311164
[06:09] <pitti> dilinger: patch is in a Debian kernel package, that should make it much easier
[06:09] <sladen> jdub: good point, I had it in my mind it was happening before, but thinking about it now---it's only showed up since since breezy.. mmm
[06:09] <seb128> lifeless: yeah
[06:09] <lifeless> seb128: any idea how I get my terminal windows (uxterm) to be black again ?
[06:09] <netstar> Any idea when fluxbox will enter breezy universe?
[06:10] <seb128> lifeless: how did you do to have it black?
[06:10] <lifeless> seb128: before upgrade, it looked lilke a normal xterm
[06:10] <lifeless> seb128: after upgrade its got blue background
[06:10] <seb128> netstar: pool/universe/f/fluxbox/fluxbox_0.9.12-1build1_i386.deb ?
[06:10] <seb128> lifeless: it has a grey background here
[06:10] <dilinger> pitti: nice, thanks
[06:10] <Treenaks> daniels: xorg: Revert to DRI 4.x!     l-r-m: Switch to DRI
[06:11] <Treenaks> daniels: or am I stupid?
[06:11] <lifeless> ghmm scp is bust too
[06:11] <\sh> Mithrandir: please apt-get build-dep grass, thx
[06:12] <lifeless> seb128: what else on your desktop is grey ?
[06:12] <lifeless> seb128: and are you looking at uxterm, or at gnome-terminal ?
[06:12] <Mithrandir> \sh: done
[06:13] <seb128> lifeless: nothing else is grey, I use GNOME stuff on my destkop ... I just entered "uxterm" from a g-t command line
[06:13] <lifeless> seb128: thanks
[06:13] <seb128> np
[06:14] <lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/blue-help-Screenshot.png
[06:14] <seb128> right
[06:14] <seb128> that's the same grey than my GTK widgets :)
[06:15] <lifeless> so, uxterm is using gtk now ?!
[06:15] <\sh> lifeless: no
[06:16] <seb128> lifeless: maybe that's due to xrdb
[06:16] <\sh> lifeless: can u check your /etc/X11/app-defaults/XTerm ?
[06:17] <lifeless> sure
[06:17] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: can i have permission to upload new librsvg? according to upstream, it makes nautilus more stable, while the API stayed 100% the same
[06:18] <dholbach> elmo: thanks for the syncs
[06:18] <lifeless> \sh: what should I look for ?
[06:18] <bddebian> dholbach: You can't thank him. ;-P
[06:18] <\sh> lifeless: background 
[06:18] <seb128> lifeless: echo 'XTerm*background: black' > color && xrdb -merge color
[06:18] <lifeless> \sh: not present
[06:18] <\sh> hmpf
[06:18] <\sh> it should default to white, at least the old ones..
[06:18] <\sh> I can change it 
[06:19] <\sh> but should I ?
[06:19] <lifeless> seb128: echo 'XTerm*background: black' > xterm-colour
[06:19] <lifeless> robertc@lifelesslap:~/t$ xrdb -merge xterm-colour 
[06:19] <lifeless> seb128: no change on existing or new terminals
[06:19] <seb128> lifeless: try with UXTerm rather
[06:19] <\sh> argl
[06:19] <Evaso> BenC: ping
[06:19] <\sh> moment
[06:19] <lifeless> seb128: fantastric. halfway there
[06:19] <seb128> cool
[06:20] <lifeless> I'm guessing white and foreground ?
[06:20] <\sh> yes
[06:20] <Evaso> whois actually managing wifi card in ubuntu?
[06:20] <\sh> seb128: do u think it's worth to default it to the old defaults? white background, black foreground?
[06:20] <lifeless> seb128: I owe you a beer. collect in montreal
[06:20] <seb128> lifeless: gnome use xrdb on /etc/gnome/config/ files at startup, you maybe want to hack or comment stuff here
[06:21] <seb128> lifeless: cool :)
[06:21] <bddebian> Speaking of UBZ.  I assume week1 is the better of the two if I have to choose?
[06:21] <lifeless> bddebian: week 1 is distro, week 2 lp
[06:21] <lifeless> bddebian: neither better nor worse, just what is interesting to you
[06:21] <bddebian> FuXX0r. Week 1 is over Halloween and my children will disown me :'-(
[06:21] <seb128> \sh: yeah, but I'm not sure of what changed ... GNOME xrdb stuff didn't, that's probably xorg
[06:22] <Evaso> whois managing hotplug?
[06:22] <doko> jdub, mdz: ok to demote mozilla-openoffice.org to universe? it doesn't work
[06:22] <\sh> seb128: nothing... I think it's from new upstream I *censored* introduced 
[06:23] <\sh> seb128: I'll have a look
[06:23] <seb128> k
[06:24] <\sh> lifeless: btw...can u check if double-clicking on emails and/or ip address highlights them in a correct way?
[06:24] <bddebian> Are we gonna morgue Yehia?  Didn't sound like elmo thought we should?
[06:24] <\sh> lifeless: (in xterm/uxterm that is ;))
[06:24] <lifeless> \sh: what is 'correct way' ?
[06:24] <lifeless> \sh: they've always acted like words for me
[06:24] <\sh> lifeless: without any holes in it, i think ;)
[06:24] <lifeless> seems fine.
[06:25] <\sh> lifeless: ok..thx
[06:25] <lifeless> hmm
[06:25] <lifeless> my high colour stuff is hard to read
[06:25] <lifeless> whats the xrdb thing to set fonts to 'default' ?
[06:25] <\sh> bddebian: I don't want this lib anymore...because there is no upstream work anymore
[06:25] <lifeless> or better yet, how do I turn the xrdb stuff off?
[06:25] <highvoltage> jdub: sorry, is that on the frontpage the manifesto? from how i understand it, it sounds like it's refering to a bigger document.
[06:25] <highvoltage> perhaps i just misunderstood.
[06:27] <\sh> bddebian: what elmo said about yehia?
[06:28] <bddebian> \sh: I don't disagree but it seems elmo might.  It also affects gql?
[06:28] <mdz> dholbach: it's a GNOME package and a strict bugfix-only release?
[06:28] <mdz> doko: it doesn't work or it has no chance of working?
[06:28] <\sh> bddebian: yes..but I don't care...morgue both ;)
[06:28] <jsgotangco> good night =)
[06:29] <bddebian> \sh: I agree but I can't make that decision :-)  Looks like he was worried about the qgl rdepends
[06:29] <bddebian> Gnight jsgotangco
[06:29] <doko> mdz: I remember it did work for some snapshot, but at least since 121 it doesn't work anymore (same in unstable), and I see no chance to get it working in breezy.
[06:30] <mdz> doko: ok
[06:30] <mdz> doko: what are we doing about a python IDE for main?
[06:30] <\sh> elmo: we can morgue as well gql...An app which depends on a lib, where upstream doesn't work anymore since a couple of years, it's not worth it to have it in the archives...
[06:31] <\sh> and now I'm going into lag mode...
[06:32] <\sh> seb128: btw...what is the purpose to put Emacs.ad into /etc/gnome/config and not into /etc/X11/app-defaults ?
[06:33] <dholbach> mdz: according to the changelog it fixes loads of bugs and there were no new big features going in since the last release; apart from gnome, pike uses it
[06:33] <mdz> dholbach: please send the changelog excerpt
[06:33] <dholbach> mdz: will do
[06:35] <doko> mdz: we have no good one, see UbuntuMainInclusionQueueIdle. I'd like to see idle in main independent of a decision, because that's the one which comes with the core package. We can add spe or boa-constructor, but both are based on wxwidgets, which looks a bit unstable. I'm still trying to get eclipse-pydev built from source, but eclipse is universe ...
[06:35] <mdz> doko: jelkner mentioned idle and drpython
[06:35] <seb128> \sh: this file is installed here by gnome-control-center
[06:35] <\sh> seb128: *grmpf*
[06:35] <seb128> \sh: and xrdb is called by gnome-settings-daemon
[06:36] <\sh> seb128: and emacs21 itself doesn't install app-defaults/Emacs
[06:36] <dholbach> mdz: http://ubuntu.gplan.info/librsvg2-ChangeLog.excerpt.txt
[06:36] <mdz> \sh: gql or qgl?
[06:36] <doko> mdz: drpython is wxwidgets as well. I'll try to contact jelkner about his reasons for drpython
[06:36] <seb128> \sh: that's a "let's convert X apps to a GTK look"
[06:36] <\sh> qgl ;)
[06:36] <\sh> mdz: qgl sry
[06:36] <mdz> dholbach: oh, this is a late 2.12.0 release?
[06:37] <\sh> mdz: damnit...now u confused me
[06:37] <\sh> mdz: gql dep-wait libyehia0.5-0c2
[06:37] <\sh> this is correct ;)
[06:37] <seb128> mdz: they are not really in sync with the GNOME desktop, but according to upstream that's their best version ever
[06:38] <mdz> seb128: but everything uses it, right?
[06:38] <mdz> our version is older than 2005-05-15?
[06:39] <dholbach> mdz: that's when the "new upstream release" appeared in the debian package
[06:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: Coooooollllllin, how do I delete a bad key out of .ssh/known_hosts now? :p
[06:39] <dilinger> Keybuk: guess! ;p
[06:39] <seb128> mdz: we have the same version as hoary had atm
[06:40] <dholbach> mdz: nautilus uses it, an image-viewer, a game and pike, (ok and the ruby bindings) 
[06:40] <seb128> mdz: abiword-plugins-gnome gdm libgnome-cil nautilus use it
[06:40] <seb128> mdz: that's all from main
[06:40] <mdz> doko: let's get idle in; go ahead and seed it to supported. it's built from python2.4 and so already the source is in main, no
[06:40] <mdz> doko: ?
[06:41] <mdz> seb128: oh, that's not so much
[06:41] <mdz> dholbach,seb128: let's do it
[06:41] <seb128> mdz: new version fixes quite a bunch of nautilus/svg crashers
[06:41] <\sh> grmpf
[06:41] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[06:41] <dholbach> mdz: the biggest impact will be on nautilus, which will work better - YAY! :)
[06:41] <doko> mdz: the source is in main, yes. will seed it
[06:42] <\sh> can someone remove a *censored* mistake of mine? grass-6.0.1-0ubunu1?
[06:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: ssh-keygen -R
[06:43] <elmo> \sh: no,it's already been accepted
[06:44] <\sh> elmo: sry about that...uploading ubuntu1 overrides it?
[06:44] <elmo> \sh: dunno off hand, check with dpkg --compare-versions
[06:44] <\sh> elmo: k
[06:46] <slomo_> \sh: ubuntu1 should be lower than ubunu1... t comes before u
[06:46] <lifeless> seb128: so any suggestion to remove xrdb stuff during startup ?
[06:46] <lifeless> seb128: i.e. stop it happening at all
[06:46] <seb128> lifeless: rm /etc/gnome/config/*
[06:47] <lifeless> thanks
[06:47] <seb128> lifeless: these are conffiles, if you remove them they will not be reinstalled on upgrades
[06:47] <Kamion> \sh: just leave it and sort it out at next sync from Debian
[06:48] <\sh> Kamion: k..I hope they're removing --with-glw as I did
[06:49] <ogra> Kamion, looks like 15244 is a problem with the DISPLAY variable not being unset fast enough ...
[06:49] <lifeless> is thomboy known broken
[06:50] <slomo_> lifeless: tomboy? it works for me and there are no bugreports afaik
[06:50] <ogra> Kamion, i get a clean ssh connection but x-session-manager threows a "cannot open display" in .xsession-errors ...
[06:51] <Diziet> Dammitttt, I have a bouncy tttt key.
[06:51] <lifeless> slomo_: hmm. the panel encountered a problem while loading "OAFIID:TomboyApplet"
[06:51] <lifeless> click dont delete
[06:51] <lifeless> comes back :[
[06:51] <slomo_> lifeless: it is no panel applet anymore... it is in the notification area now
[06:51] <slomo_> lifeless: so just delete it ;)
[06:51] <lifeless> ok.
[06:52] <slomo_> lifeless: and then start tomboy or better add it to your session
[06:53] <Kamion> ogra: hmm
[06:53] <lifeless> slomo_: would be nie to migrate it for users
[06:54] <ogra> Kamion, it happens even if i ran a slay for the user directly after logout to make sure there are no leftovers from the session
[06:54] <slomo_> lifeless: i don't know how this could be done :(
[06:54] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync pmount from Debian incoming? Matt and Colin approved
[06:54] <lifeless> slomo_: so, any hints on sfs-client ?
[06:54] <ogra> s/ran/run/
[06:54] <lifeless> I'm not sure where to look for failure results about it
[06:54] <slomo_> lifeless: sfs-client?
[06:55] <jdub> doko: please. it really shouldn't ship by defauilt anyway. :)
[06:55] <bddebian> sfs is broken afaik
[06:55] <mdke> what does /part mean in the installer when it says "resize /part and use free space"?
[06:55] <mdke> i choose that and it crashed
[06:56] <Kamion> mdke: it means there's a bug
[06:56] <doko> jdub: already done
[06:56] <mdke> Kamion, known?
[06:56] <Kamion> send me /var/log/partman
[06:56] <Kamion> mdke: seen it mentioned but haven't diagnosed it; log files good
[06:56] <jdub> doko: rawk.
[06:56] <Kamion> there's meant to be a device name for a partition there
[06:56] <mdke> Kamion, how can I capture the log?
[06:56] <Kamion> mdke: switch to tty2, 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb', scp it somewher
[06:56] <Kamion> e
[06:57] <lifeless> bddebian: ah, is anyone caring about it ?
[06:57] <mdke> Kamion, ok i have to go out now but I think I should be able to do that, will file a bug report
[06:57] <mdke> Kamion, it's preview release btw, not daily
[06:57] <bddebian> lifeless: It's on the MOTU UniverseUnmetDeps wiki page I think
[06:57] <lifeless> dbthanks, I'll have a look
[06:57] <lifeless> bddebian: ^^
[06:58] <bddebian> :-)
[06:58] <Kamion> mdke: right, should be no difference
[06:58] <Kamion> thanks
[06:59] <mdke> np, got the log
[06:59] <mdke> later
[07:05] <mdke> Kamion, which package?
[07:05] <Kamion> mdke: 'partman' to start with
[07:09] <\sh> elmo: please sync hk-classes-0.7.3-1 from unstable, thx (universe, new package, needed for knoda)
[07:10] <elmo> \sh: nothing to sync
[07:10] <elmo> hk-classes |    0.7.3-1 | breezy/universe | source
[07:11] <\sh> argl...
[07:11] <\sh> elmo: thx
[07:12] <Mithrandir> elmo: can you sync earth3d 1.0.3-1 from unstable?  It's a new package.
[07:12] <elmo> done
[07:12] <Mithrandir> thanks
[07:14] <lifeless> mdke: my disks got faster in breezy
[07:14] <lifeless> bah
[07:14] <lifeless> mdz: ^^^
[07:14] <mdz> doko: no inclusion report for zope-plonelanguagetool (seeded to supported)
[07:15] <Mithrandir> mdz: can you verify that the new readahead fixes the upgrade problem for you?
[07:16] <doko> mdz: hmpf, will add one, yes, that was the one package, which is only recommended by plone
[07:16] <mdz> doko: linguaplone also
[07:17] <mdz> doko: everything else is promoted to main now
[07:19] <doko> mdz: cool
[07:19] <mdz> Mithrandir: ia32-libs-kde is going to universe unless you say something; it's not used by anything in main
[07:19] <doko> mdz: ia32-libs-kde needs to be added as a dependency to openoffice.org2-kde
[07:19] <doko> (on amd64)
[07:20] <mdz> Mithrandir: The following NEW packages will be installed:
[07:20] <mdz>   readahead
[07:20] <mdz> Mithrandir: readahead looks good, thanks
[07:21] <doko> mdz: but you did prompte poppler-utils, not xpdf-utils?
[07:21] <mdz> doko: yes
[07:21] <Mithrandir> mdz: yay, good.
[07:22] <mdz> doko: the builds or whatever are sorted now; germinate is no longer confused
[07:22] <mdz> Mithrandir: and regarding ia32-libs-kde?
[07:22] <Mithrandir> doko: are you handling the addition of ia32-libs-kde to ooo2-amd64?
[07:22] <Mithrandir> doko: or should I?
[07:23] <doko> Mithrandir: I would appreciate, if you could do. (and adding lib32gcj6 addtionally to all places where you find java-gcj-compat)
[07:23] <Mithrandir> doko: adding lib32gcj6 should have been done already, iirc.
[07:23] <Mithrandir> doko: I'll do an upload tomorrow, since it'll take forever from here.
[07:24] <doko> Mithrandir: any chance to get openoffice.org-amd64 (1.1.4) for amd64? I'd like to see it in universe, it much more lean than OOo2 and does support languages not yet found in OOo2
[07:24] <doko> hmm, lib32gcj6 is still in universe
[07:25] <Mithrandir> doko: if ooo 1.1.4 is in universe, sure, I can do that tomorrow.
[07:26] <doko> Mithrandir: that would be nice. I'm trying to get 1.1.5 to universe later (having the ability to import docs saved with OOo2), but that's not sure, if I can make it for breezy
[07:27] <lifeless> slomo_: tomboy is still a panel app
[07:27] <lifeless> slomo_: this is the real cause:
[07:27] <lifeless> robertc@lifelesslap:~$ tomboy 
[07:27] <lifeless> ** (/usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe:9717): WARNING **: The following assembly referenced from /usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe could not be loaded:
[07:27] <lifeless>      Assembly:   Mono.Posix    (assemblyref_index=1)
[07:27] <lifeless>      Version:    1.0.5000.0
[07:27] <lifeless>      Public Key: 0738eb9f132ed756
[07:27] <lifeless> The assembly was not found in the Global Assembly Cache, a path listed in the MONO_PATH environment variable, or in the location of the executing assembly (/usr/lib/tomboy).
[07:27] <slomo_> lifeless: apt-get --reinstall mono-classlib-1.0
[07:28] <lifeless> mm, well sudo aptitude reinstall :)
[07:30] <mdz> doko: no report for aspell-de-alt
[07:30] <mdz> doko: otoh, myspell-de-de-oldspell has a report but is not germinated
[07:31] <emile> i'm following a bug i commited, it now had the status upstream. Is there somewhere i can find information on bug status and their meaning?
[07:31] <Kamion> mdz: can I merge newt to 0.51.6-31? fixes missing bidi support in installer
[07:31] <doko> mdz: hmm, yes. these packages are built from the same source as aspell-de and myspell-de-de, which already are in main. really need a report?
[07:31] <jdub> lifeless: so your bonnie++ results are breezy-positive?
[07:31] <Diziet> I wonder what happened to that dpkg upload.
[07:31] <mdz> Kamion: sure; what's our ubuntu-specific delta in newt anyway?
[07:31] <Kamion> and apparently improves BIDI support otherwise
[07:32] <mdz> doko: no, aspell-de-alt is a separate source package: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[07:32] <Kamion> Diziet: it reached breezy-changes, but you uploaded with iwj@debian.org in changed-by: which isn't on the whitelist so you didn't get notified
[07:32] <Kamion> mdz: Xhosa translation (merged in Debian now); python2.4
[07:32] <Diziet> I've just found that by rereading the source.changes.  How did that get there ?
[07:32] <mdz> oh, forgot it had a python module
[07:32] <lifeless> jdub: yes
[07:33] <lifeless> jdub: breezy love++
[07:33] <Mithrandir> doko: if you'd care to file a bug for ooo and ooo2 just asking for an update and assigning them to me, that'd be good.
[07:33] <mdz> Diziet: are you not tracking breezy?  you should have seen the binaries appear and be upgraded by now
[07:33] <Kamion> good cjwatson@rookery:~/ubuntu/pool/main/d/dpkg$ tar xzOf dpkg_1.13.10ubuntu3.tar.gz dpkg-1.13.10ubuntu2/debian/changelog | head -n6 | tail -n1
[07:33] <Kamion>  -- Ian Jackson <iwj@debian.org>  Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:32:44 +0100
[07:33] <jdub> lifeless: ha ha, you wrote 'thomboy' in your email :)
[07:33] <mdz> Diziet: iwj@debian.org got there because you used that in changelog
[07:33] <Kamion> s/^good //
[07:34] <mdz> lifeless: if you could follow up to the disk performance thread on ubuntu-devel with your results, that'd be grand
[07:34] <Diziet> Yes, I know it came from the changelog.  I meant which neurons it came from.  I never use that address and who knows where mail to it goes.
[07:34] <Kamion> oh
[07:34] <mdz> better than all the hdparm -T posts
[07:34] <Kamion> confused emacs changelog mode?
[07:34] <Diziet> Possibly.  I'll have to check.  I should fix my uploading scripts to check for obvious brainos like that.
[07:34] <Kamion> some DEB_* variable
[07:34] <Diziet> I keep uploading things to `unstable' too.
[07:35] <Mithrandir> DEBEMAIL, iirc
[07:35] <doko> Mithrandir: ok
[07:35] <Diziet> Maybe I could have it figure it out by looking up the parent directories to find out which hat I was wearing.
[07:35] <lamont__> export DEBEMAIL="lamont@ubuntu.com"
[07:35] <lamont__> export DEBFULLNAME="LaMont Jones"
[07:35] <lamont__> Mithrandir++
[07:36] <Diziet> (setq 'user-mail-address ...)  but of course that affects everything.
[07:36] <lamont__> Diziet: I finally just cobbled together a script (uch) which I use for dealing with changelogs - it handles adding the ubuntu version number as needed, etc.
[07:36] <Diziet> I think for now I'll just put a check in my dpkg-buildpackage wrapper which barfs.
[07:36] <Mithrandir> Diziet: debian-changelog-mailing-address is what you're looking for.
[07:38] <Diziet> mith: No, because when I mean `everything' I don't mean `every major mode in Emacs' (which would be fine) I mean `every time I edit a changelog in this Emacs' which is too broad.  I edit changelogs with a Debian hat on too.  I suppose I could have different emacsen but that just makes life harder.
[07:38] <Diziet> (Debian hat has ian@davenant as the address.)
[07:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: I think readahead should not invoke its init script in postinst
[07:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: heh, it does?  I'll fix that.
[07:39] <mdz> Setting up readahead (0.20050328.0142-0ubuntu2) ...
[07:39] <mdz>  * Reading desktop files...                                              [ ok ] 
[07:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: did you see the other stuff Edward Trager posted about i18n? various questions of font legality there that we certainly ought to check
[07:40] <mdz> Kamion: posted where? I'm only just starting in on ubuntu-*
[07:40] <emile> i'm following a bug i commited, it now had the status upstream. Is there somewhere i can find information on bug status and their meaning?
[07:40] <emile> please ;-)
[07:40] <Kamion> mdz: -devel
[07:42] <Kamion> emile: upstream typically means either that it's upstream's responsibility to fix (i.e. "somebody else's problem") or that it's been explicitly forwarded to upstream
[07:42] <jdub> and when seb marks a bug upstream, you know that there'll be blood to clean up
[07:43] <emile> Kamion: ok thnx for explaining.
[07:52] <doko> mdz: inclusion reports for aspell-de-old and the two missing zope products done
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: thanks for catching up with the main inclusion queue
[07:54] <mdz> doko: thanks. Please use the name of the source package to avoid confusion
[07:54] <dholbach> Kamion: have fun :)
[07:55] <ogra> doko, spe in main ??
[07:55] <mdz> doko: MainInclusionReportOldGermanOrthography is supposed to be for hkgerman, right?
[07:55] <doko> mdz: yes, will change it
[07:55] <mdz> doko: I don't see an aspell-de-old package anywhere, neither binary nor source
[07:55] <mdz> doko: and myspell-de-de-oldspell isn't seeded yet
[07:56] <doko> mdz: aspell-de-alt ... ohh crap, that's a germish name
[08:01] <Diziet> mdz: re 15336: No, the 16bpp bug was gs.
[08:02] <Diziet> I haven't tried our firefox on 16bpp but I can easily do so.
[08:09] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[08:09] <pitti> bye dholbach 
[08:10] <doko> hmm, who did drop aspell-de ?
[08:10] <doko> sorry, s/de/es/
[08:11] <doko> mdz: aspell-de-alt report done
[08:11] <pitti>  aspell-es |      1.8-4 |        breezy | all
[08:11] <pitti> doko: ?
[08:11] <pitti>  aspell-es | 0.50-2-4ubuntu1 |        breezy | source
[08:11] <pitti> hmm, odd
[08:11] <doko> pitti: anastacia output
[08:12] <pitti> doko: l-s-es still depends on it
[08:12] <pitti> doko: but the version looks like as if aspell-es was built from another source now
[08:12] <doko> mdz: severe bug, you have to shrink the browser window to have the anastacia output scrollable again ;-p
[08:13] <pitti> doko: ah, aspell-es is built from espa-nol
[08:13] <doko> pitti: ok, then adding it to the seeds should be enough
[08:14] <pitti> doko: still odd, why is aspell-es built from two different sources? 
[08:15] <doko> maybe old source, which elmo just removed?
[08:16] <pitti> doko: in any case, espa-nol has a higher version, so I guess that source package wins for building aspell-es
[08:17] <pitti> hmm - I can't baz update the breezy seeds. It complains about a missing gpg key C62AC3F4, but that is not on the key servers
[08:18] <pitti> ah, Ian
[08:18] <ogra> pitti, yup
[08:18] <pitti> Diziet: can you please upload your gpg key to somewhere so that we can import it?
[08:18] <pitti> Diziet: otherwise we can't update the seeds baz archive
[08:24] <ogra> mdz, is idle worth to be included in edubuntu ? 
[08:27] <mdz> ogra: you mean in the default install? I don't think so, no
[08:27] <mdz> ogra: I think there is too much in the default install already
[08:27] <ogra> ok
[08:27] <ogra> yup, it is
[08:28] <mdz> we cannot try to provide for everything that someone might teach somewhere
[08:28] <ogra> 699MB on powerpc... i'm pondering to drop edubuntu-server there...
[08:28] <ogra> mdz, 15244 starts looking ery odd...
[08:29] <ogra> very even
[08:30] <Diziet> pitti: I sent it to pgp-public-keys@the.earth.li a day or two ago.
[08:31] <Diziet> Has it not propagated yet ?
[08:31] <Diziet> Hmm.  No answer from the.
[08:31] <ogra> Diziet, doesnt look like http://the.earth.li:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=C62AC3F4
[08:32] <netstar> X11 is configured with prefix /usr right?
[08:32] <Diziet> As in, no ack from the keyserver.  Indeed.
[08:33] <Diziet> Should I add it there through the web ui or would you like me to email it somewhere convenient for you ?
[08:33] <Diziet> I'll have to chase it up with Noodles too.
[08:33] <ogra> Diziet, web ui will surely work ...
[08:33] <ogra> and its up immediately
[08:34] <Diziet> `Storing 1 keys' it says.
[08:35] <ogra> :)
[08:35] <ogra> http://the.earth.li:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=C62AC3F4
[08:35] <ogra> there it is ;)
[08:35] <Diziet> Good-oh.
[08:38] <mdz> ogra: I cannot reproduce 15244
[08:39] <mdz> ogra: logout works perfectly for me
[08:39] <ogra> mdz, relogin within 10 seconds doesnt
[08:39] <mdz> ogra: oh, I see
[08:40] <ogra> it takes between 30 and 50 sec if the connection can be established again after logout
[08:40] <Evaso> hi guys any hotplug maintainer here?
[08:40] <mdz> ogra: can we fix it in ldm so that pressing enter logs you in, without having to use the mouse?
[08:40] <ogra> also the switch to Xsession pulled a session dbus startup in that doesnt get killed on logout
[08:41] <ogra> mdz, yes, i just didnt do any work on the old ui... i'll add it, its trivial...
[08:41] <mdz> ogra: that will happen in a local login, too, then
[08:41] <ogra> mdz, hmm, i'll go trying
[08:42] <mdz> ogra: what causes the second login to fail?
[08:42] <mdz> ogra: ssh X forwarding fails?
[08:43] <mdz> ogra: change the ldm ssh command line to include "env;" or something to dump the environment
[08:43] <jbailey> Anyone here have an evms root and/or jfs root system that's failing to work?  I have an initramfs-tools that ought to solve your problems.
[08:43] <ogra> mdz, i'll do
[08:44] <ogra> mdz, local login works perfectly
[08:46] <doko> mdz: did you make a decision about the rrdtool stuff?
[08:52] <pvanhoof> My fresh install (on another machine) of Breezy from a testing cd installed a graphical boot thing
[08:53] <pvanhoof> how can I enable this feature on my from-hoary upgraded breezy?
[08:53] <pvanhoof> also note that the update-notifier package has serious dependency problems
[08:53] <mdz> doko: yes, did I not reply?  it's OK with me
[08:53] <pvanhoof> like .. it doesn't depend on HAL, but without HAL .. it crashes
[08:53] <pvanhoof> and it doesn't depend on the notification-daemon
[08:54] <pvanhoof> but without it .. it won't start (d-bus errors)
[08:54] <pvanhoof> and a hoary to breezy upgrade didn't activate it for my user .. perhaps it should have asked for this
[08:56] <doko> mdz: cannot find an answer, will request syncs from elmo
[08:58] <pvanhoof> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15526
[08:58] <pvanhoof> hf
[09:00] <pablof> debian-installer/locale=pt_BR not works
[09:00] <jordi> jbailey?
[09:01] <Lathiat> pvanhoof: dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
[09:01] <jbailey> jordi?
[09:01] <Lathiat> pvanhoof: make sure you have ubuntu-desktop installed, else you wont have installed the package
[09:01] <pvanhoof> why reconfigure my kernel Lathiat ?
[09:01] <Lathiat> pvanhoof: it regenerates the initramfs to include usplash (graphical boot)
[09:02] <pvanhoof> aha
[09:02] <pvanhoof> I just installed ubuntu-desktop
[09:02] <pvanhoof> and usplash
[09:02] <pvanhoof> did it do the reconfigure for me? or do I need to enforce it?
[09:03] <jbailey> usplash doesn't at the moment.
[09:03] <pvanhoof> oh and .. the upgrades installed a new kernel for me
[09:03] <pvanhoof> so the `uname -r` trick wont work right?
[09:03] <jbailey> Depends if the ABI changed.
[09:04] <jbailey> So if uname -r gives you the same as the new kernel name.
[09:04] <pvanhoof> 2.6.12-8-386
[09:04] <jbailey> Then you'll be fine.
[09:04] <jbailey> in fact, it may have alreayd happened for you, then.
[09:04] <jordi> jbailey: we need a new locale in breezy's glibc
[09:04] <jbailey> jordi: The khurdish one?
[09:05] <jordi> jbailey: if you could grab ku_TR from belocs and stick it in, that would be more than enough
[09:05] <jordi> yup
[09:05] <pvanhoof> always funny :). I just installed a new system with breezy .. and it looked way cooler than this laptop on which I upgraded from hoary
[09:05] <jordi> pvanhoof: that's what new GNOME defaults do :)
[09:05] <jbailey> jordi: I still want to convince you to just feed me all of these from Rosetta.. =)
[09:05] <pvanhoof> I guess, yes
[09:05] <jordi> jbailey: of course that's a medium term goa.
[09:06] <jordi> jbailey: and we need to talk to denis about this stuff :)
[09:06] <jbailey> jordi: 'kay.  I'm going to put in for a UBZ BoF around "Generating locales from Rosetta".  I wonder if we could get him on an irc chat during a session for that?
[09:07] <jordi> jbailey: should be doable, if he sets date & time
[09:07] <jordi> that's a good idea
[09:07] <jbailey> Do you know what timezone he's in?
[09:07] <jordi> jbailey: make sure you lead, I'm second or whatever
[09:07] <jordi> CET/CEST
[09:07] <jbailey> Yup, And I suspect Martin Pitt interested.
[09:08] <jordi> heh, surely :)
[09:08] <mae> Why the rabid componentization of xorg?
[09:08] <jbailey> I'd just love to see us not import Belochs but strip locales out of glibc completely and have it updated by the langpacks mechanism.
[09:08] <jbailey> Have belochs seed and update rosetta where it can.
[09:09] <pitti> jbailey: yes, I'd like to join the locales BoF of course; Colin should, too
[09:15] <lamont__> Rejected: gtk2-engines-xfce_2.2.7-1_amd64.deb: old version (2.3.0cvs20050306-2) in breezy-autotest >= new version (2.2.7-1) targeted at breezy-autotest.
[09:23] <pitti> Diziet: got your key now, thanks
[09:24] <fabbione> mdz: unping.. don't worry thanks
[09:24] <mdz> fabbione: ok, going for lunch now, sms if needed
[09:24] <pitti> mdz: about ocaml-native-compilers: we had the discussion recently, and there is not really a compelling reason to not support it; can I just seed it?
[09:24] <fabbione> mdz: enjoy :) i will be around a bit more 
[09:24] <mdz> pitti: yes
[09:25] <ogra> fabbione, have you seen how 14967 evolved ? 
[09:26] <fabbione> ogra: no
[09:27] <ogra> fabbione, its definately inotify sending wrong events... it seems
[09:27] <fabbione> ogra: it seems or it does?
[09:28] <ogra> according to seb128's tests it does
[09:28] <\sh> fabbione: it does...
[09:28] <ogra> for all directorys except /usr/share/applications
[09:29] <ogra> and according to the last comment also for singel files
[09:29] <ogra> single even
[09:29] <fabbione> ogra: you mean that it sends wrong notifications for all dirs except /usr/share/applications ?
[09:30] <fabbione> than you should try to see what makes /usr/share/applications special.. is perhaps the first in the list or the last in the list?
[09:30] <fabbione> if so, is the test case reproducible using another dir as first/last?
[09:30] <ogra> fabbione, i think /usr/share/applications is hardcoded as default anywhere... everything monitored dynamically seems to break
[09:30] <\sh> fabbione: u can use the test suite and set something else..put your machine under load and wait
[09:31] <fabbione> ogra: the kernel doesn't have any hardcoded path
[09:31] <\sh> ogra: it has nothing to do with /usr/share/applications
[09:31] <ogra> fabbione, gnome-menus probably...
[09:31] <ogra> \sh, butits contents dont disappear
[09:31] <fabbione> \sh: i don't have a machine. i have been without workstation for 3 days by now. so no i can't test.. if i could, i would have done it days ago
[09:31] <fabbione> ogra: what happen if you use the test tool outside X/gnome?
[09:32] <fabbione> ogra: like in init 1 ?
[09:32] <fabbione> or just don't run anything X related or that uses gamin
[09:32] <\sh> fabbione: the same...the dir which is watched as default stays...but all other subdirs disappear
[09:32] <fabbione> \sh: in console?
[09:32] <\sh> fabbione: yes
[09:32] <fabbione> without X running?
[09:32] <\sh> yes
[09:33] <\sh> and only when load is bashing the machine
[09:33] <\sh> so load raising to 1 and it starts
[09:33] <fabbione> \sh: what comment is that in the bug report?
[09:33] <\sh> fabbione: I have to fill that it...
[09:34] <\sh> fabbione: I checked it yesterday and forgot to make a copy'n'paste..
[09:34] <\sh> give me 2 hours more :)
[09:38] <\sh> well...I can do it now...let me shutdown everything...brb
[09:51] <\sh> re from console
[09:52] <\sh> fabbione: disabled now all X stuff...
[10:00] <jordi> pitti: what about different langpacks for universe, not in the same one?
[10:01] <pitti> jordi: that's of course an option
[10:01] <seb128> no language packs for universe
[10:01] <pitti> jordi: but it would bloat the archive even further
[10:01] <seb128> pitti: are you kidding me?
[10:01] <ogra> jordi, found a MOTUi18n team ;)
[10:01] <seb128> pitti: that would mean to install the .mo from the whole universe to get 1 translation?
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: mark asked for universe translation _updates_
[10:02] <pitti> seb128: we won't strip universe packages
[10:02] <\sh> grmpf
[10:02] <pitti> seb128: but mark wanted rosetta updates to actually appear somewhere
[10:02] <\sh> my / ran out of space *gnarf*
[10:03] <sto> seb128: what about a hook for apt to get individual package translations?
[10:03] <seb128> pitti: k, I guess nobody will them :)
[10:03] <seb128> sto: an evol hack? no thanks
[10:03] <seb128> evol/evil/
[10:04] <sto> it does not need to be evil
[10:04] <seb128> you are welcome to send a non-evil hack
[10:04] <seb128> I doubt you will get one
[10:05] <pitti> sto: we discussed that to death at the last conference
[10:05] <pitti> sto: (and at the one before that)
[10:05] <sto> pitti: maybe I'm wrong, but something like putting the translations on a new language can do it
[10:05] <pitti> sto: in the end we found that inventing a second archive structure is evil
[10:05] <sto> pitti: no need of second archive
[10:06] <sto> LANGUAGES="es_ES@updated:es_ES"
[10:06] <sto> You put updates on the non standard local
[10:06] <sto> e
[10:06] <seb128> that is evil
[10:06] <sto> seb128: why?
[10:06] <seb128> because creating new language creates issues and is ugly
[10:06] <sto> ugly, yes
[10:06] <sto> sure
[10:07] <zyga> hello :)
[10:07] <zyga> translations on the table as I see :)
[10:07] <sto> but if the programs use gettext it should work
[10:07] <sto> you are not creating a new language
[10:08] <sto> only an updated catalog
[10:08] <sto> LANG should be left as usual
[10:08] <pitti> sto: what should be the benefit of that?
[10:08] <sto> pitti: updated translations without touching 10.000 packages
[10:08] <sto> And the user can easily turn it on/off
[10:08] <pitti> sto: hm? we don't touch 10.000 packages when we update translations - just the langpacks
[10:09] <seb128> sto and you would have no translation for non-updated packages
[10:09] <sto> seb128: wrong
[10:09] <zyga> what is the issue with simply generating a new langpack for each language every week or so?
[10:09] <seb128> sto: you use 1 locale, es_ES@updated or es_ES
[10:09] <sto> if the messages are not in es_ES@updated, the ones on es_ES are used
[10:09] <seb128> sto: you are reinventing what language-packs are
[10:10] <seb128> 2 differents dirs
[10:10] <seb128> one with updates
[10:10] <sto> seb128: yes
[10:10] <sto> but the apt hook should only get the translations I want, not everything
[10:10] <jordi> ah, I opened a can of worms when I have to leave the house
[10:11] <seb128> that doesn't work
[10:11] <jordi> sorry. :)
[10:11] <ogra> *giggle*
[10:11] <seb128> apt manages packages
[10:11] <sto> sure
[10:11] <seb128> so you need a zillion of packages
[10:11] <sto> and the hook gets only .mo files
[10:11] <jordi> ogra: this archive bloat might be worth to not bloat the main package langpacks
[10:12] <sto> Not packages
[10:12] <sto> And it i s *optional*
[10:12] <sto> No need to use it if you don't want
[10:12] <seb128> apt installing something different of .deb packages is what I call an evil hack
[10:12] <pitti> sto: hm, so exactly what are you trying to solve?
[10:13] <seb128> pitti: getting the .mo just for the apps installed
[10:13] <ogra> jordi, yup
[10:13] <seb128> pitti: and not installing a language pack with a ton of translations you'll not use
[10:13] <sto> seb128: right, just that
[10:13] <pitti> sto: ah, I see. Please let me assure to you that we discussed that at least 5 times
[10:13] <seb128> sto: we have discussed that for months
[10:14] <pitti> sto: every other way is much more broken than our current one
[10:14] <sto> pitti: I'm sure I'm not original
[10:14] <pitti> sto: we can't produce a language pack for every application and every language - that would make the archive explode
[10:14] <pitti> sto: and the Packages.gz file alone would use half of your hd
[10:14] <sto> pitti: no need for packages
[10:15] <pitti> sto: without packages you create even more problems
[10:15] <mjg59> mdz: You missed the -B 1 in the init script
[10:15] <mjg59> I'll remove that now
[10:15] <pitti> sto: you can't put them on CDs, you lose the mirror network, you are reinventing apt
[10:15] <sto> pitti: you can put them on CD, using a tarfile and a mapping package->.mo files
[10:16] <seb128> pitti: you need to know if there is an update, etc ... as pitti said you are reinventing a packaging system
[10:16] <sto> pitti: it's almost the same as the langpacks on that case
[10:16] <sto> seb128: sure, but a specialized one
[10:16] <pitti> sto: yes, but apt and the deb structure already solve that for us, we would only duplicate it
[10:17] <sto> pitti: well, the solution can be implemented with apt
[10:17] <seb128> sto: you can make a zillions of deb, right .. that would make the package index and the mirror and the users unhappy
[10:17] <pitti> sto: we even discussed crazy ideas like generating debs on the fly
[10:18] <sto> seb128: no, you can get langpacks and only install the files needed, not all
[10:18] <seb128> sto: to install them you have to list all the files, to handle version, to get them by a way, etc
[10:19] <sto> seb128: well, maybe a langpack can be an index of the files and to get them you can use a different method
[10:19] <mjg59> elmo: The conversation with Ian started almost identically to the one with "Bruce"
[10:20] <sto> seb128: how big are your langpacks?
[10:20] <seb128> sto: now think about the different method, how it would work, etc ... you will probably conclude that apt is already here and does this job and use an existant structure with mirrors, etc instead of redoing that from scratch
[10:20] <seb128> sto:would be for the whole archive ? 15000 packages ,50 locales ? 750 000 mo files 
[10:21] <sto> seb128: yes, for the whole archive
[10:21] <sto> seb128: only one language, of course
[10:21] <seb128> sto: why only one? the structure has to host all the languages
[10:21] <seb128> sto: and I use several locales here
[10:22] <sto> seb128: then you install one langpack per language
[10:22] <sto> seb128: I'm only trying to know how big is a langpack update
[10:22] <sto> for one language
[10:22] <seb128> pitti: question for you
[10:23] <sto> If I want 10, I know I need 10*size_of_langpack
[10:23] <sto> Each time it gets updated
[10:23] <seb128> depending of the update
[10:23] <seb128> how many translations changed, etc
[10:23] <pitti> sto: for a well translated language like french or german, a langpack deb is about 4 MB
[10:24] <Nafallo> jbailey: ping
[10:24] <sto> pitti: for all the archive?
[10:24] <jbailey> Nafallo: Pong
[10:24] <pitti> sto: that is the sum of base and update and gnome and main
[10:24] <Nafallo> jbailey: hi! are anything soundisch loaded already in the initramfs? :-)
[10:24] <pitti> sto: for main
[10:24] <jbailey> Nafallo: *sound*
[10:24] <jbailey> Is this so that the Ubuntu logo can sing at you, too? =)
[10:25] <sto> pitti: how many packages?
[10:25] <pitti> sto: in the magnitude of 400
[10:25] <Nafallo> hehe, no. trying to figure out why my module argument doesn't do what upstream says it should do ;-).
[10:25] <Nafallo> nice idea though :-P
[10:26] <sto> pitti: so for everithing it can be 10 times that?
[10:26] <seb128> sto: no, 400 to 15000
[10:26] <jbailey> Nafallo: There generally ought not to be.  If you do a modules=dep in /etc/mkinitramfs/initramfs.conf, I suppose it might but it in, though.
[10:26] <pitti> sto: what is "everything"?
[10:26] <seb128> sto: everything doesn't ship an mo though ...
[10:26] <sto> pitti: all the components of the archive, including universe
[10:27] <sto> seb128: sure
[10:27] <seb128> sto: what are you trying to argue?
[10:27] <seb128> sto: let's do the implementation and come with a patch, then we will discuss about it
[10:27] <pitti> sto: if we would create language-pack-universe update packages, you would get another 200
[10:27] <Nafallo> jbailey: haven't touched the file :-). I touched /etc/hotplug/pci/snd-via82xx though :-P
[10:27] <pitti> sto: if we put the universe updates into the existing update packages, we would not get any new package at all
[10:27] <jbailey> Nafallo: Eh?  What are you trying to do?
[10:28] <Nafallo> jbailey: tell whatever load the module to load it with ac97_quirk=hp_only
[10:28] <sto> seb128: ok, I was simply trying to know if it made sense in the first place
[10:28] <sto> seb128: if the update is small it makes no sense, langpacks are ok
[10:28] <jbailey> Nafallo: The simplest thing to do is either just put your file and the options in /etc/modules
[10:29] <seb128> sto: we discussed that for several meeting with everybody from the distro team, we have mails about that for weeks, we had real discussions about that
[10:29] <Nafallo> jbailey: ah. wasn't sure that file was deprecated or not ;-).
[10:29] <Nafallo> jbailey: thanx :-)
[10:29] <seb128> sto: we didn't take the first random b0rked idea to use it
[10:30] <sto> seb128: ok, forget about it, I don't want to convince any of you of anything
[10:30] <Nafallo> jbailey: personally I suggest upstream is wrong though :-P
[10:31] <seb128> sto: no, you just want to say we are all stupid and you will come with a better system with 10 min of discussion :)
[10:31] <jbailey> Nafallo: Sorry, what are they wrong about? =)
[10:31] <sto> seb128: no, I'm not saying you are stupid
[10:31] <seb128> sto: was a joke, don't worry
[10:31] <Nafallo> jbailey: my Headphones volumething does _not_ merge with Master and disappear :-P
[10:32] <sto> seb128: I simply would like to have a good solution to the problem
[10:33] <Nafallo> anyway, reboot :-)
[10:33] <sto> seb128: but I have not seen a really good one (I don't belive what I say is a good idea, I'm sure it would have a lot of problems)
[10:33] <seb128> sto: everybody wants that, languagepack is the best we found after weeks of discussions
[10:33] <sto> seb128: yes, we are doing something similar, but they also seem a hack to me
[10:34] <pitti> sto: feel free to add some ideas to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePacks
[10:34] <sto> I'll take a look, thanks
[10:34] <sto> Have to go, bye
[10:36] <karlheg> jbailey, You there?
[10:36] <jbailey> karlheg: Yup, /msg'd you as soon as you logged in. =)
[10:36] <karlheg> I see it.
[10:37] <karlheg> I've got the patch in front of me.  What do you want to know?
[10:37] <jbailey> Your patch redoes the move-/dev code without any explanation as to why.
[10:38] <karlheg> It follows the same steps that the /etc/init.d/udev does; I thought that would be better.
[10:38] <ajmitch> morning
[10:38] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:39] <karlheg> Also, it's moving things to ${rootmnt}; it looks like the other one does not.
[10:39] <karlheg> Ah... /root/dev  ... but shouldn't it use the variable ${rootmnt}?
[10:39] <Nafallo> hmm, didn't help
[10:40] <jbailey> Yes, that's probably true. =)
[10:41] <karlheg> I have not solved the problem with file names that have '-' in them.  The manual should probably simply document that, and a loud README ought to go in /etc/mkinitramfs telling of it... or perhaps mkinitramfs should check the file name syntax as a fail-safe.
[10:42] <jbailey> I had avoided the move to /etc/udev since it didn't make any sense, I could just move it directly onto the already existing /dev directory.
[10:42] <bmonty> elmo: ping
[10:43] <jbailey> The mount -n usage, and the ${rootdev} are certainly right, though.
[10:43] <jbailey> Yeah, I need to document that "-" is a sucky character for hooks.
[10:43] <jbailey> I couldn't think of any sane way around it.
[10:43] <karlheg> nomeata, it's moving ${rootmnt}/dev to ${rootmnt}/etc/udev.
[10:43] <\sh> hmm....
[10:44] <karlheg> That's to preserve a static /dev, right?
[10:44] <jbailey> It's to make sure you can still access it if you need.  I think MAKEDEV is hacked somehow to drop device files there still or something.
[10:44] <\sh> fabbione: I can't reproduce it *grmpf* what did do yesterday to get it
[10:44] <karlheg> Then in the tmpfs dev that we move to ${rootmnt}, a mount point is created and it's move there.
[10:45] <karlheg> Sure, so it needs to be put where it will be expected.
[10:45] <\sh> seb128 / ogra: on the console with nothing then 2 pbuilder and mp3blaster running no inotify bug..load is actually at 3
[10:46] <seb128> is it fixed?
[10:46] <\sh> seb128: no
[10:46] <ogra> seb128, fabbione asked to test without X
[10:46] <\sh> seb128: yesterday I reproduced it also on the console...but I think I missed X stuff
[10:46] <karlheg> Anyone else have trash applet leave up a progress window after dumping trash?
[10:46] <jbailey> karlheg: I'm still too squirmy about changing the version variable for now.  I'd really rather look at that post-breezy.
[10:47] <jbailey> karlheg: It's not an interesting enough change to be worth risking that some crazy part of LTSP that's not in the usual archive needs it.
[10:47] <karlheg> No package that requires 'mkinitramfs' uses it.
[10:47] <karlheg> Can we email the ltsp people and clear it with them?
[10:48] <jbailey> ogra might now.
[10:48] <karlheg> OR: export both 'version' and 'VERSION' for now, deprecating 'version'.
[10:48] <jbailey> ogra: ^^/
[10:48] <jbailey> ?
[10:48] <ogra> jbailey, rather mdz
[10:48] <\sh> seb128 / ogra: so something else is playing a really nasty game...if inotify is running cleanly on the console (without X running), then how can we find a better test case?
[10:48] <karlheg> It would be better to just have everyone use VERSION.
[10:48] <karlheg> That's the name that 'mkinitrd' uses, IIRC.
[10:48] <jbailey> ogra: Yeah, but he's insanely busy, I try to ask anyone else first. =)
[10:48] <jbailey> ogra: Thanks, though. =)
[10:48] <karlheg> IIRC, that's what prompted me to change it.
[10:48] <seb128> how can xorg have an influence on the linux code?
[10:48] <jbailey> karlheg: Fair 'nuff.
[10:49] <\sh> seb128: xorg? or gnome
[10:49] <ogra> jbailey, i just cant give an immediate answer
[10:49] <seb128> how can this impact on linux?
[10:49] <karlheg> I should have been working on this more earlier on..
[10:49] <seb128> I mean it's not supposed to have any userland stuff breaking it
[10:49] <\sh> seb128: I don't know...we need a kernel hacker ,-)
[10:49] <karlheg> mdz is insanely busy.  He replies to EVERY email in the list... ;-)
[10:49] <\sh> I'm not able to debug the kernel side of the game
[10:49] <seb128> that's like an app crahshing xorg, that's xorg's fault usually
[10:49] <seb128> whatever an app do xorg should not crash
[10:50] <ogra> jbailey, but i have enough worrying bugs to care for with ltsp, i wouldnt like to risk anything here
[10:50] <seb128> whatever xorg do inotify should be robust
[10:50] <\sh> seb128: this is not so easy...
[10:51] <seb128> it is
[10:51] <karlheg> ogra, do you maintain the initramfs support for LTSP?
[10:51] <seb128> if inotify got broken that's inotify bog
[10:51] <ogra> karlheg, nope
[10:51] <ogra> karlheg, but i work on the code from time to time...
[10:51] <jbailey> karlheg: When you're doing patches, can you do them with diff -up, btw?  It'll include the name of the shell function in the header.
[10:52] <karlheg> ogra, The specific question is whether it, or any part of LTSP that runs from the hooks that are called by 'mkinitramfs', uses the ${version} variable exported by mkinitramfs?
[10:52] <\sh> seb128: or it's playing a bad game with us...and the bug is somewhere else
[10:52] <karlheg> jbailey, Ok; I'll try and remember that.  I just used 'bzr diff'.
[10:53] <jbailey> karlheg: Ah, thanks.  I'll ask them to consider using that as a default.
[10:53] <seb128> \sh: between inotify-utils and inotify ? I doubt so
[10:53] <\sh> seb128: what was the bug number again?
[10:53] <\sh> seb128: I'm trying to reproduce this with kde
[10:53] <karlheg> ogra, I've dl the ltsp package source, and could not find any use of that variable.  The thing is that we want to change it from ${version} to ${VERSION}.
[10:53] <seb128> 14967
[10:53] <Riddell> \sh: KDE doesn't have any such problems
[10:53] <\sh> Riddell: it has nothing to do with the menu
[10:54] <ogra> Riddell, all KDE apps have ...
[10:54] <seb128> Riddell: sure, KDE fixes inotify linux code ...
[10:54] <\sh> Riddell: it's a common gamin/inotify bug
[10:54] <\sh> even if seb128 doesn't want to hear gamin ;)
[10:54] <seb128> \sh: it happens with inotify-utils
[10:54] <\sh>  but if something is there in relation between kernel-inotify and X/gnome/kde/bla 
[10:54] <Riddell> by which I mean KDE does not display the same menu problem as gnome is displaying.  you're a protectionist bunch
[10:55] <Nafallo> gamin, gajim, gaim: stupid packages! :-P
[10:55] <\sh> seb128: yes...but in X environment, in the moment speaking of gnome
[10:55] <\sh> Riddell: forget the menu
[10:55] <\sh> Riddell: this is only the user display of the bug
[10:55] <\sh> Riddell: try the inotify-utils
[10:55] <seb128> Riddell: does KDE use inotify to update its menus?
[10:55] <ogra> karlheg, i dont see such reference either, but i build edubuntu on top of the ltsp package and i'm late with the ditro, i cant risk any additional breakage at this time of the development cycle
[10:55] <Riddell> seb128: yes but I suspect not so tightly coupled
[10:56] <\sh> ok...I'll enter the kde horizon..brb
[10:56] <seb128> weird that it doesn't react to inotify events so
[10:56] <Riddell> is there a way to see what inotify watches are active?
[10:57] <ogra> Riddell, 14967
[10:57] <ogra> there is a tgz with tools
[10:57] <karlheg> ogra, I'm 99.9% certain that it won't break anything since there is no reference to a variable named ${VERSION} from anything called from the initramfs/*/hooks/* script.
[10:57] <jbailey> karlheg: It really sounds like a depreceate-and-remove-after breezy.
[10:57] <karlheg> jbailey, Nobody's using that variable at all yet.
[10:57] <jbailey> The problem is that your 99.9% keeps us up all night hunting bugs if you're wrong. =)
[10:58] <ogra> karlheg, whats the benefit of changing it now ? 
[10:58] <karlheg> ogra, Not having anything using it by the old name.
[10:58] <karlheg> 'usplash' will use ${VERSION} if they take my patch.
[10:59] <karlheg> ... so we need both if anything at all uses ${version} unless 'usplash' is set up with the lower-case name.
[10:59] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, can you please learn alsa to respect my mixer settings while upgrading...
[10:59] <karlheg> I wanted it upper case for consistency with other variable names exported by 'mkinitramfs' for use by the hooks.
[10:59] <crimsun> HiddenWolf: upgrading or dist-upgrading?
[10:59] <karlheg> ${DESTDIR}, etc.
[11:00] <\sh> back 
[11:00] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, dist-upgrading
[11:00] <karlheg> Also: Is there any other information that mkinitramfs knows that a hook script might need?
[11:00] <karlheg> (for next cycle)
[11:00] <crimsun> HiddenWolf: audigy 1, correct?
[11:01] <LaschW> Anyone noticed system hangs due to xorg-driver-fglrx and linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12_6.8.0-8.16.20-0ubuntu4?
[11:02] <karlheg> So far, nothing uses 'initramfs-tools' except for 'usplash', 'ltsp-client', and 'linux-image-*'.
[11:03] <spayne> the Human icon theme seems to be broken
[11:03] <spayne> known issue?
[11:03] <ogra> karlheg, i think you should write a mail to -devel to have a bit broader discussion
[11:03] <karlheg> That's such a small set, it seems managable.  I've looked at all of their mkinitramfs hook scripts... 'usplash' and 'ltsp-client' as source, and the 'linux-image-2.6.12-8-686' as installed.
[11:03] <\sh> ok...load is 3
[11:04] <karlheg> ogra, Ok.
[11:04] <\sh> inotify test is running on /usr/share/applications/
[11:04] <karlheg> jbailey, Before I write, are there any other issues with the patch?
[11:05] <karlheg> What about the move from /etc/mkinitramfs/*-top ... to /etc/mkinitramfs/scripts?
[11:05] <karlheg> That cannot affect any known package either, since none of them install conffiles there; none could have, since there was not previously any code in mkinitramfs that actually copied scripts from there.  That code is added by this patch.
[11:05] <jbailey> karlheg: As you said, nothing could've been using them so far.  I just have to lookup how to move scripts that people might have put in there.
[11:06] <jbailey> Right, I'm not worried about packages, those should all use /usr/sharea.
[11:06] <jbailey> But I need to make sure anything a user thinkgs (s)he put in there gets moved.
[11:06] <karlheg> jbailey, If they did, they must have had to write a hook for /etc/mkinitramfs/hooks.  That's what I did at first.
[11:06] <jbailey> Nothing big, just work to do.
[11:07] <karlheg> How about a NEWS entry, and call it good, since this is devel cycle?
[11:07] <\sh> hmmm....
[11:07] <karlheg> It's a minor change, given that the old scripts did not get copied anyhow.
[11:08] <jbailey> No, I think where it's possible to do the right thing, it's still a good idea.
[11:08] <karlheg> How about a test in preinst that looks for any files in the old location, and warns?  But that's bad on non-interactive install... though it will be the rare case that message is ever printed.
[11:09] <karlheg> My bet is that less than 50 people have any kind of custom script so far...  (start a pool?  5 point spread.)
[11:10] <jbailey> karlheg: Looks like bzr uses internal difflib.  It's not worth the hassle of customising it just for this,
[11:10] <\sh> seb128: there is nothing happening...not so much as in gnome environment 
[11:12] <karlheg> Is that the difflib from python2.1-difflib that is part of python now?
[11:12] <karlheg> Perhaps it has a conffile?
[11:12] <jbailey> Yup
[11:12] <jbailey> It just doesn't support that option.
[11:12] <jbailey> No worries.  bzr can use an external diff if you need, but it's not worth it.
[11:12] <jbailey> I was hoping to ask them to change it to use -up as a sane default if they were using an external diff anyway.
[11:13] <jbailey> I'll poke bob2 to see what he thinks of this as a default for the .deb, but I'm not fussed.
[11:13] <ogra> Riddell, does KDE use gamin ?
[11:13] <\sh> ogra: yes shermann 30365     1  0 22:57 ?        00:00:00 /usr/lib/gamin/gam_server
[11:13] <ogra> hmm
[11:13] <\sh> ogra: but the output from inotify stuff is different then in gnome
[11:14] <karlheg> jbailey, Ok, so two issues:  version --> VERSION, and /etc/mkinitramfs/*-top ... --> /etc/mkinitramfs/scripts/
[11:14] <karlheg> Anything else?
[11:14] <\sh> ogra: with gnome I have more events happening, now with kde only sometimes...not every minute at least one app pulling something
[11:14] <jbailey> Just not being sure how much of the rework you did for moving /dev is necessary.  I'll make it use ${rootmnt} and mount -n, though.
[11:14] <jbailey> You don't need to resend for that, I'll do it myself easily enough.
[11:15] <\sh> ogra: and I have the same load as yesterday...and on the console with nothing running then 2 pbuilder and mp3 player + irssi and inotify stuff == nothing
[11:15] <karlheg> jbailey, Please show that portion of the diff to the 'udev' maintainer for a second opinion.  I think that it's necessary to do it the way I have it written.  Let's mull it over, step by step:
[11:15] <\sh> no delete event, no "going away"
[11:16] <karlheg> Ah, wait...
[11:16] <jbailey> karlheg: It can't be completely necessary, it's working in production now. =)
[11:16] <karlheg> Ok, you may be right; I see now.
[11:17] <\sh> ogra: I'm going nuts with this
[11:17] <karlheg> You make the directory inside the tmpfs first, then bind mount the static ${rootmnt}/dev onto it before move mounting the tmpfs onto the ${rootmnt}/dev.
[11:17] <karlheg> That's the same thing with fewer steps.
[11:17] <ogra> \sh, me too
[11:17] <karlheg> So unless that bind mount breaks when you move the parent directory, it ought to work fine.
[11:18] <karlheg> I bet it does not break since the entire tree is moved.
[11:18] <karlheg> I'll take your version when I 'bzr pull' next time around.
[11:19] <karlheg> Anything from the 'usplash' people wrt log_*_msg etc?
[11:19] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, sorry, internet connection is flaky. did you respond?
[11:20] <jbailey> karlheg: Right.  The kernel rearranges all that internally.
[11:20] <crimsun> 14:00 < crimsun> HiddenWolf: audigy 1, correct?
[11:20] <jbailey> Lemme look at your usplash stuff again.  I've only reviewed the insmod bits so far.
[11:20] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, audigy 2, since I've gotten it to work.
[11:20] <Riddell> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportAdept
[11:21] <karlheg> jbailey, Do you think that all the 'local _varname' stuff is overkill?
[11:21] <HiddenWolf> seb128, my gtkfilechooser dialog is showing me 2 non-existant files....
[11:21] <\sh> ogra: updated 14967
[11:21] <jbailey> karlheg: "local" isn't posix, I don't even know if busybox supports it.
[11:21] <karlheg> jbailey, I'm just trying to keep namespaces clean;
[11:21] <crimsun> HiddenWolf: bug? I remember reading it, but I'm trying to fix a more critical one atm (kernel oops)
[11:22] <sladen> ogra: where do Edubuntu bugs go?
[11:22] <karlheg> It's overkill anyhow, I guess.
[11:22] <jbailey> Right.  I've been trying to move to where local variables are prepended with their functionname.
[11:22] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, I'll check for a bug number, or post one.
[11:22] <jbailey> or an abbreviation of it.
[11:22] <jbailey> Especially since I like using 'x' for loops. =)
[11:22] <sladen> ogra: malone or bugzilla/product=Ubuntu ?
[11:22] <seb128> HiddenWolf: what files?
[11:22] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, I just spent half an hour searching for the problem when an alsa upgrade closed my line-in
[11:23] <karlheg> I always use the first letter of the name of the thing I'm looping over, like f for file, or m for module.
[11:23] <HiddenWolf> seb128, a folder and a .torrent file that I deleted. Nautilus doesn't show them, they're in trash.
[11:23] <ogra> sladen, everything in edubuntu is in main ;)
[11:23] <ogra> so bugzilla
[11:23] <jbailey> For the initramfs modules, the modules.d/usplash can't contain fbconf and vga16b.  IIRC, there was some case where they shouldn't be auto-loaderd.
[11:23] <karlheg> I like the edubuntu art work.  I installed it to see and it looks very nice.
[11:23] <jbailey> Anything in modules is forcably loaded, it's just a shortcut that behaves the same as /etc/mkinitrd/modules
[11:23] <\sh> hmmm..
[11:24] <karlheg> jbailey, Right.  The patch I sent to them removes that file.
[11:24] <jbailey> ogra: Thinking of which, Will you have edubuntu usplash artwork? =)
[11:24] <sladen> ogra: as is everything in Kubuntu ...but that as a separate product
[11:24] <\sh> seb128 / ogra: I'm running now a debug session on the gam_server
[11:24] <karlheg> They cannot be force loaded in case the user boots with vesafb.
[11:24] <jbailey> karlheg: Whups, I was looking at the first patch in 15129
[11:24] <jbailey> karlheg: Might be better to upload patches to bugzilla rather than posting them inline.  Bugzilla includes the ability to say that a newer patch obsoletes the old one.
[11:25] <karlheg> jbailey, Ah.  Ok.
[11:25] <karlheg> I'll remember that.  Should I repost it?
[11:25] <karlheg> If you have writes, perhaps you can remove the patches from the comment text?
[11:25] <ogra> jbailey, i'll try to donate some hours on the weekend to that
[11:26] <karlheg> Is anyone else having trouble with the trashapplet?
[11:26] <jbailey> ogra: I can supply you the one I did, but I used a paintbrush to draw an "E D" over the Ubuntu logo for my testing. =)
[11:26] <karlheg> When you empty trash, does it leave the progress meter on screen?
[11:26] <ogra> heh
[11:27] <HiddenWolf> seb128, illustrating: http://www.geocities.com/hiddenwolfsof/screenshot.png
[11:27] <jbailey> karlheg: Nope, not important.  It's just convenient if you're posting patches in the future.  BZ's support for patches as attachments is surprisingly good.
[11:27] <ogra> jbailey, mail it, probably some cleaning is enough ;)
[11:28] <jbailey> karlheg: I tend to apply patches by hand, but in-body, this would lose all of the tabs, etc.  and attached patch file preserves it.
[11:28] <seb128> HiddenWolf: which one is wrong?
[11:28] <jbailey> ogra: dude, no, not at all.  I didn't even use my tablet for it, I used my mouse. =)
[11:28] <karlheg> jbailey, I will repost it there the right way.
[11:28] <seb128> HiddenWolf: hum, I've deleted them before opening the fileselector?
[11:28] <jbailey> karlheg: Totally no worries.  This is small enough to not bother.
[11:28] <ogra> jbailey, i do all my artwork with my touchpad... nobody complained yet ;)
[11:28] <jbailey> Ahaha, serious?
[11:28] <ogra> yup
[11:29] <jbailey> I bought a Wacom tablet for my wife ages ago.
[11:29] <HiddenWolf> seb128, filechooser is wrong
[11:29] <\sh> jbailey: he's serious ;)
[11:29] <jbailey> Mostly we use it for better freecell games now.
[11:29] <HiddenWolf> seb128, those files have been deleted for days.
[11:29] <seb128> HiddenWolf: how weird
[11:29] <ogra> jbailey, i have a stac of wacoms, but i didnt use them since ages
[11:29] <jbailey> I cut about 10% off my score with a pen. =)
[11:29] <ogra> stack even
[11:29] <jbailey> s/score/time/
[11:30] <\sh> ogra: and u didn't tell me ;)
[11:30] <Lathiat> fabbione: did the new kernel benc uploaded include that fix
[11:30] <jbailey> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/edubuntu.png
[11:30] <HiddenWolf> seb128, trash cleaned out, doesn't change it. :P
[11:31] <ogra> \sh, 2 are in hannover, 2 are in some moving box and not even unpacked
[11:31] <jbailey> I have a Kubuntu one in a similar style. =)
[11:31] <ogra> jbailey, hmm, that needs *some* cleanup *g*
[11:32] <jbailey> Yeah, not enough colour depths to put a horse on there. =)
[11:32] <ogra> lol
[11:32] <seb128> HiddenWolf: weird
[11:32] <jbailey> Hmm, I should decruft my homedir sometime after breezy releases.
[11:33] <karlheg> jbailey, the usplash patch is uploaded to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15129
[11:33] <HiddenWolf> seb128, ls actually shows that nautilus is wrong...
[11:33] <seb128> ah ah
[11:33] <seb128> less weird now :)
[11:33] <seb128> \sh: EVENT ON WD=1
[11:33] <seb128> DELETE_SELF (file) 0x00000400
[11:34] <jbailey> karlheg: Nice, thanks.
[11:34] <seb128> \sh: that's from GNOME without using gnome-panel
[11:34] <karlheg> I used 'smeg' a while ago, when I was running Hoary, to edit the menus.  I want to revert to default Breezy menus, but smeg does not seem to have an option for that.
[11:34] <\sh> seb128: check my last logfiles...I updated just now running KDE
[11:34] <\sh> seb128: inotify and gamin debug
[11:34] <HiddenWolf> seb128, does it make any sense?
[11:34] <\sh> seb128: nothing..no no no DELETE_SELF stuff
[11:35] <seb128> \sh: I don't have KDE to try from it
[11:35] <\sh> seb128: but I have :) and just now a load of 3 
[11:35] <seb128> HiddenWolf: not really ... do you have a .hidden ?
[11:35] <\sh> since 45 mins actually
[11:35] <seb128> \sh: you said the other day it's not load dependend for you
[11:36] <HiddenWolf> seb128, no
[11:36] <\sh> seb128: yes....but I didn't realize that my load was 1 when I was running rhythmbox :(
[11:36] <\sh> seb128: since I started with debugging I had quite a closer look on my system...
[11:37] <seb128> \sh: I've it without nautilus or gnome-panel running
[11:37] <\sh> seb128: what is it...
[11:37] <seb128> let me try from wmaker :)
[11:38] <\sh> and now...
[11:38] <\sh> let me start evolution
[11:42] <\sh> hmmm
[11:44] <seb128> happens from wmaker with no GNOMish stuff used
[11:44] <Burgundavia> jbailey, that is quite the well polished edubuntu boot splash there
[11:44] <jbailey> Burgundavia: It's a new artstyle.  I'm trying to bring the joy of fingerpainting to the digital world.
[11:45] <jbailey> It *is* supposed to be a distro for schools, after all. =)
[11:45] <Lathiat> jbailey: haha
[11:45] <\sh> seb128: nothing at my place...
[11:45] <Lathiat> nice image
[11:45] <\sh> seb128: even with evolution gnome-panel started on kde;)
[11:45] <seb128> \sh: you are under KDE? nothing happens even with some load?
[11:46] <HiddenWolf> seb128, Attachment #3830  to Bug #15545 Created
[11:46] <seb128> \sh: do you use esd?
[11:46] <\sh> seb128: nothing as i said
[11:46] <\sh> seb128: no
[11:46] <seb128> could you try with it ?
[11:46] <\sh> seb128: on gnome yes
[11:46] <\sh> seb128: sure
[11:47] <seb128> HiddenWolf: thanks but this bug is useless as it and I don't get the issue
[11:47] <HiddenWolf> seb128, hm, issue is that the files seem to exist but nautilus thinks they are deleted.
[11:48] <HiddenWolf> seb128, or the files are deleted but ls and gtkfilechooser are wrong, that's an option too.
[11:48] <seb128> ls beeing wrong is not an option
[11:48] <\sh> seb128: ok...esd started...rhythmbox started ....
[11:48] <karlheg> HiddenWolf, 'ls' cannot be wrong.
[11:48] <HiddenWolf> Then it's nautilus.
[11:48] <seb128> ctrl-R changes something?
[11:48] <karlheg> HiddenWolf, Of course.
[11:49] <karlheg> HiddenWolf, Do they go away when you click its refresh button?
[11:49] <HiddenWolf> seb128, no. files have been 'deleted' in nautilus a few days ago.
[11:49] <seb128> and nautilus is running for a few days ?
[11:49] <seb128> or have you restarted it ?
[11:49] <HiddenWolf> seb128, rebooted 4 times today alone.
[11:49] <seb128> xfiles
[11:49] <HiddenWolf> seb128, ?
[11:50] <seb128> that makes no sense
[11:50] <seb128> files are here
[11:50] <seb128> you have rebooted
[11:50] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I'm not messing with you, nautilus does not show them.
[11:50] <seb128> and nautilus doesn't list them
[11:50] <\sh> seb128: have itt
[11:50] <seb128> \sh: since you use esd? :)
[11:50] <Lathiat> can you get build logs for packages from debian?
[11:50] <\sh> seb128: yes...but not in the inotify
[11:51] <seb128> \sh: how "not in the inotify"?
[11:51] <karlheg> HiddenWolf, What are the permissions of the directories on the path and of the files you cannot see?
[11:52] <\sh> seb128: not in the inotify output of the test suite...only in the gamin server
[11:52] <\sh> seb128: inotify: resource /home/shermann/.kde/share/apps/kicker/psi.desktop went away. Adding it to missing list
[11:52] <\sh> inotify: Emitting Deleted on /home/shermann/.kde/share/apps/kicker/psi.desktop
[11:52] <seb128> karlheg: good question, if there is an issue that's probably something like that :)
[11:52] <\sh> inotify: got an event for unknown wd 857
[11:52] <\sh> inotify: resource /home/shermann/.kde/share/apps/kicker/konqbrowser.desktop went away. Adding it to missing list
[11:52] <\sh> inotify: Emitting Deleted on /home/shermann/.kde/share/apps/kicker/konqbrowser.desktop
[11:52] <\sh> seb128: and no sign of kde involvement
[11:52] <seb128> KDE doesn't react to events
[11:52] <HiddenWolf> karlheg, just plain permissions, how do I check it from the command line?
[11:52] <seb128> it's KDE bog :p
[11:53] <seb128> HiddenWolf: ls -l <folder>
[11:53] <\sh> seb128: *lol* 
[11:53] <karlheg> Hmmm... Gimmee a minute.
[11:53] <\sh> seb128: but I got them first when I started esd and rhythmbox
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> seb128, karlheg drwxr-xr-x  2 hidde hidde  4096 2005-09-13 07:31 for one
[11:53] <\sh> seb128: before that, not "went away"
[11:53] <HiddenWolf> -rw-r--r--  1 hidde hidde     0 2005-09-12 18:29 - for the other
[11:53] <\sh> seb128: and nothing in /usr/share/applications/*
[11:54] <karlheg> for d in home myname subdir; do ls -lh $d; done; ls -lh /home/myname/subdir/filename
[11:54] <marcin_ant> hi sorry to bother but could someone tell me how can I get what are default gcc flags in ubuntu breezy?
[11:54] <seb128> \sh: I got some of then when starting epiphany which blocked on esound, and another one when stopping esd ... I would blame esd
[11:54] <karlheg> HiddenWolf, is the file a .file?
[11:54] <HiddenWolf> karlheg, check the screenshot, no.
[11:54] <HiddenWolf> karlheg, no .hidden file either.
[11:55] <\sh> seb128: ok..now we have more patients then before...from gnome-panel to gamin to inotify back to something else ;)
[11:55] <seb128> \sh: I still blame inotify, should be robust
[11:55] <seb128> \sh: and I never blamed gnome-panel :)
[11:55] <\sh> seb128: inotify: resource /usr/share/applications/defaults.list went away. Adding it to missing list
[11:55] <\sh> inotify: resource /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache went away. Adding it to missing list
[11:55] <seb128> \sh: I guess now you can try to move esound away and run GNOME again
[11:56] <\sh> seb128: I'll stop the debug session now and provide the logfiles
[11:56] <ogra> seb128, esd sounds like a good candidate, but how should it influence inotify ? 
[11:56] <seb128> \sh: but that makes no sense
[11:56] <seb128> maybe it uses some signal that confuse inotify
[11:56] <ogra> hmm
[11:56] <ogra> i dont even need it with ltsp ...
[11:57] <seb128> we are not sure it's that
[11:57] <\sh> gnome-vfs?
[11:57] <seb128> try to get it without esound
[11:57] <seb128> \sh: I had no gnome-vfs-daemon running and got the issue, I doubt a lib does that
[11:57] <\sh> seb128: I have a headache now
[11:58] <seb128> HiddenWolf: is this issue new? is that specific to your user?
[11:58] <seb128> HiddenWolf: maybe that's could be due to your "hidde" username
[11:58] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I've never seen it before.
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I've used this name for more than a year on ubuntu now.
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> It's my first name.
[11:59] <seb128> HiddenWolf: what does gnomevfs-ls /folder says
[12:00] <HiddenWolf> seb128, a lot, but it shows the files.
[12:00] <seb128> can you paste the lines about the files not listed by nautilus
[12:00] <\sh> seb128: but which lib can it be
[12:00] <seb128> to a query if you want
[12:00] <seb128> \sh: not a lib, esd 
[12:01] <seb128> HiddenWolf: NOTABUG
[12:01] <seb128> the filename is useful here
[12:01] <seb128> file~ is a backup file
[12:01] <\sh> seb128: ok...I'll disable esd now when I'm back in gnome
[12:01] <seb128> it's due to the ~
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> seb128, weird.
[12:01] <\sh> brb
[12:01] <seb128> HiddenWolf: go to the nautilus preference and click on the option to list hidden and backup files