[12:02] <HiddenWolf> hm, there is an option to show backup files?
[12:02] <HiddenWolf> seb128, sorry to bug you.
[12:02] <seb128> first tab of the prefs
[12:02] <seb128> np
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> Good night. 
[12:03] <HiddenWolf> I've got class 9am tomorrow. ;)
[12:04] <doko> elmo: please could you dist-upgrade concordia/breezy-i386 and davis/breezy and install openoffice.org2 b-d's
[12:04] <seb128> HiddenWolf: later
[12:04] <\sh> ok back in gnome without esd
[12:05] <\sh> producing load ;)
[12:07] <\sh> 00:07:18 up 10:49,  7 users,  load average: 2,50, 2,13, 2,53
[12:07] <\sh> should be enouh
[12:08] <Kamion> ogra: oh, since I see people were talking about artwork above, let me know when you've got plausible usplash artwork and I'll make it be the isolinux splash for Edubuntu CDs as well
[12:08] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[12:08] <ogra> Kamion, thanks :)
[12:09] <Kamion> ogra: I need to be able to crop it to 639x320 without losing anything important (any usplash artwork should be fine for that), black background preferably, 16 colours, ideally one of the colours in the image should be fairly close to white so that isolinux can use that palette entry for drawing text too
[12:09] <Kamion> I'll take care of the rest
[12:10] <ogra> Kamion, i'll do an artwork session on the weekend :)
[12:11] <\sh> seb128: kde menus gone
[12:11] <\sh> seb128: read = 32
[12:11] <\sh> sizeof inotify_event = 16
[12:11] <\sh> pevent->len = 0
[12:11] <\sh> pevent->len = 0
[12:11] <\sh> EVENT ON WD=1
[12:12] <\sh> DELETE_SELF (file) 0x00000400
[12:12] <sabdfl> mdz: please could you put the screensaver dialog into Cliff's list for improvement? i've asked mpt to help ogra with it
[12:12] <\sh> seb128: esd isn't to blame ;)
[12:13] <mdz> sabdfl: sure
[12:13] <ogra> sabdfl, thanks
[12:13] <mdz> mjg59: I did? argh, thanks for fixing
[12:14] <mdz> ogra: please send me the source file for the screensaver dialog, and I'll pass it on
[12:14] <sabdfl> mdz: are you convinced about the "login as someone else" thing?
[12:14] <sabdfl> i'm not
[12:14] <mdz> sabdfl: nope
[12:14] <sabdfl> ok, can we can that then?
[12:14] <seb128> \sh: so it's plain inotify bog :)
[12:14] <sabdfl> i think it's a recipe for trouble
[12:14] <mdz> useful feature, sure, it's the UI I'm unconvinced about
[12:15] <mdz> sabdfl: no argument here if we can't find a more pleasant way to present it
[12:15] <\sh> seb128: but why is it not happening on console with high load or in kde? 
[12:15] <\sh> seb128: and no console doesn't fix the kernel ,-)
[12:15] <\sh> seb128: and kde neither ;)
[12:16] <sabdfl> let's spec that out at UBZ
[12:16] <ogra> sabdfl, it was mpt's suggestion... i've no prob to change it to "change user" or something along that line
[12:16] <crimsun> mdz: "Choose another user" (with a menu, possibly)?
[12:16] <sabdfl> ogra: we'll spec it properly in UBZ for Dapper
[12:16] <\sh> s/now/no/
[12:16] <ogra> sabdfl, we planned to go with gnome-screensaver for dapper
[12:16] <mpt> No matter what it's labelled, it's in the wrong place if it's the only button.
[12:16] <ogra> sabdfl, it wasnt just ready in time
[12:16] <mpt> because that's where you'd expect an OK button.
[12:16] <seb128> \sh: you didn't get it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen
[12:17] <crimsun> mpt: agreed
[12:17] <sabdfl> please let's drop it. let's go with a nice classy auth dialog, that's all
[12:17] <seb128> \sh: it happens with wmaker here by example
[12:17] <\sh> seb128: but something is different in the handling of those things
[12:17] <ogra> sabdfl, drop it completely ?
[12:17] <sabdfl> ogra: yes
[12:17] <\sh> seb128: can't we work around this?
[12:17] <ogra> ok
[12:17] <karlheg> Is latest Breezy XMMS working for yous?
[12:17] <seb128> \sh: work around what?
[12:17] <karlheg> It fails to run here.
[12:17] <Kamion> erk, my wife and I use the 'new login'-style thing all the time
[12:17] <sabdfl> i ust don't think we can get it slick by breezy, given the state it is in currently
[12:17] <Kamion> in xscreensaver
[12:17] <tseng> Kamion: i think you want #ubuntu.
[12:18] <\sh> seb128: when the event appears just re-add those missing things?
[12:18] <karlheg> Message: device: default
[12:18] <karlheg> Message: fmt 5, channels: 2
[12:18] <karlheg> *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (out): 0xb6ccc738 ***
[12:18] <Kamion> I think it's very commonly used on shared computers
[12:18] <Kamion> tseng: no I don't
[12:18] <sabdfl> Kamion: if you are already logged in, does it reuse that login?
[12:18] <crimsun> karlheg: < tseng> ...i think you want #ubuntu
[12:18] <tseng> Kamion: er, karlheg.
[12:18] <tseng> who also wants bugzilla
[12:18] <Kamion> sabdfl: IIRC it says "you're already logged in <here>" but it's been a while, we're in the habit of ctrl-alt-f7/ctrl-alt-f8 if already logged in
[12:19] <seb128> \sh: you mean "why not starting to workaround all the apps using notificiation instead of fixing inotify"?
[12:19] <Kamion> removing it's pretty horrible, it means you just can't use the machine graphically unless you know how to fire up a new X server
[12:19] <sabdfl> what's the <here> ?
[12:19] <sabdfl> can we provide a simple "logout" option?
[12:19] <Kamion> sabdfl: like I say it's been a while and I think the last few times have been on Debian; I'll try it and let you know
[12:19] <Kamion> not logout!
[12:19] <Kamion> I don't want my state canned because somebody else wanted to log in
[12:20] <Kamion> anyway, bedtime
[12:20] <\sh> seb128: well, temporarily yes, to have a clean desktop for ubuntu release 510
[12:20] <mjg59> Yeah, "logout" would be a bit mad
[12:20] <ogra> Kamion++, no logout
[12:20] <sabdfl> ok, no logout
[12:20] <\sh> seb128: i don't really have a clue how difficult this will be...
[12:20] <sabdfl> right now the dialog looks terrible, and i don't see a resource that we can put on making it really slick
[12:20] <ogra> sabdfl, the new login button is an upstream thing...
[12:20] <mpt> upstream looks terrible too, ogra :-)
[12:21] <Burgundavia> what about reverting the hoary style dialog?
[12:21] <sabdfl> it's not just the layout
[12:21] <ogra> sabdfl, i can revert it to the hoary one
[12:21] <seb128> \sh: we can use the same effort to fix it
[12:21] <sabdfl> to do it properly requires that it deal with a number of situations
[12:21] <mpt> Ideally it would be resume by default, with a checkbox for new session
[12:21] <ogra> mpt, yes, i know thats why i started the patch once
[12:21] <sabdfl>  - it needs to tell you who is already logged in, so you can switch to one of them
[12:21] <sabdfl>  - it needs to let you log in as a brand new user
[12:22] <sabdfl>  - it needs to do all of that while looking classy
[12:22] <sabdfl> that's going to take a little while
[12:22] <\sh> seb128: so poking fabbione or benC to fix the kernel bog? ,-)
[12:22] <sabdfl> and apparently the code and resources are a bit crappy to work with
[12:22] <mpt> and realistically depends on gnome-screensaver
[12:22] <\sh> seb128: without knowing what triggers the bug
[12:22] <ogra> sabdfl, probably we should consider gnome-screensaver for breezy already, it offers much of the above
[12:23] <Nafallo> ogra++
[12:23] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, g-s is quite stable already, and does everything we need (except for the millions of screensavers that xscreensaver offers)
[12:23] <HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: which tbh are mostly not that good
[12:23] <ogra> sabdfl, my only concern with it is, that its quite slow in bringing up the dialog and you have no options for the single screensavers yet
[12:24] <ogra> Burgundavia, wrong
[12:24] <Nafallo> well, "Pop art squares" should be enough for anyone :-P
[12:24] <Burgundavia> ogra, ok, it offers some
[12:24] <ogra> it can use all screensavers from xscreensaver
[12:24] <seb128> \sh: right, patching all the client is not an option
[12:24] <sabdfl> ok, i just played with it a little
[12:24] <mjg59> The fact that it takes *so long* to pop up a dialog is an issue
[12:24] <sabdfl> it worked fine, when i tried to log in as me again it told me what was going on
[12:24] <sabdfl> i reused the session
[12:24] <Nafallo> Burgundavia: ehm, get up-to-date and look at it. it has the xscreensaver hacks to :-)
[12:24] <seb128> \sh: we the same efforts we can probably tackle the bug instead of workarounding it
[12:24] <sabdfl> then it gave me an odd error message abut other virtual terminals :20 being open?
[12:24] <mjg59> But that can probably be fixed by instantiating the dialog at startup, and just displaying it when it should appear
[12:25] <Burgundavia> Nafallo, I have the latest, but I don't have xscreensaver installed as well
[12:25] <mjg59> But if this decision is going to be made, it needs to be made quickly
[12:25] <mjg59> It impacts on power management
[12:25] <\sh> seb128: agreed...so we have to convince the two to do some extra nightshifts until kernel freeze ;-)
[12:25] <Nafallo> Burgundavia: ah, that's the problem then :-)
[12:25] <ogra> mjg59, it impacts positively, doesnt it ? 
[12:25] <mjg59> ogra: Does it? How so?
[12:25] <sabdfl> do we have a package of gnome-screensaver?
[12:25] <mjg59> sabdfl: Yes
[12:25] <sabdfl> has anybody here played with it extensively?
[12:26] <mjg59> ogra: We need to send it lock signals on suspend
[12:26] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:26] <ogra> sabdfl, only a bit...
[12:26] <mjg59> seb128: Hmm. has something happened to the sleep button patch in control-center?
[12:26] <ogra> mjg59, it knows the xscreensaver options afaik
[12:26] <Burgundavia> some minor visual glitches on resume, but it does show up
[12:26] <HrdwrBoB> mjg59: yes, the current system is broken 
[12:26] <mjg59> ogra: But signals via dbus
[12:26] <mjg59> HrdwrBoB: ?
[12:26] <Burgundavia> resume from disk that is
[12:26] <sabdfl> ok, i'll install it and test it
[12:26] <HrdwrBoB> mjg59: it resumes gives me up to a second of response
[12:26] <HrdwrBoB> and then locks.
[12:27] <mjg59> HrdwrBoB: What's that in response to?
[12:27] <HrdwrBoB> resuming and locking
[12:27] <ogra> sabdfl, as i said, we loose the option to change options for single screensavers, there is no ui for that
[12:27] <mjg59> HrdwrBoB: Locking the screen? On Breezy?
[12:27] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[12:27] <Burgundavia> mjg59, I see the same thing
[12:27] <mjg59> HrdwrBoB: We signal xscreensaver on suspend. It just takes far too long to actually do it.
[12:27] <ogra> sabdfl, thatd need to be solved imho
[12:28] <mjg59> ogra: Why?
[12:28] <mpt> I'd rather have a sensible account-switching interface than be able to change the number of fireworks in the sky at once
[12:28] <HrdwrBoB> mjg59: ugh, I'm disabling it anyway, I think it shouldn't be on laptop mode but that's just the way I use the laptop
[12:28] <Nafallo> mpt++
[12:28] <HrdwrBoB> yes, mpt is right
[12:28] <mjg59> HrdwrBoB: "Shouldn't be on laptop mode"?
[12:29] <HrdwrBoB> sorry shouldn't lock the screen when it goes into suspend
[12:29] <mjg59> Why not?
[12:29] <ogra> mpt, mjg59 , you probably want sound/no sound... or adjust the rss feed for all the rss reading screensavers etc
[12:29] <mpt> There are screensavers with sound???
[12:29] <mjg59> ogra: They're massively fringe use cases
[12:29] <ogra> mpt, lots
[12:29] <mjg59> Having something that *works* is more important
[12:29] <HrdwrBoB> I suspend/resume my laptop all the time and I get sick of putting in my password, but I've no idea if I'm a common case or not
[12:30] <seb128> mjg59: the patch to use gdm-signal? no, it's still used
[12:30] <ogra> mjg59, for that i would go with the proven solution...
[12:30] <\sh> HrdwrBoB: when u have your laptop all the time in your view...it's ok...but if it's standing around and others can touch it, I like it more secured
[12:31] <Nafallo> HrdwrBoB: I would rather put in my password then let Joe User come bye and play with my system :-).
[12:31] <seb128> \sh: I'll try with a fresh boot from the command line
[12:31] <\sh> seb128: k
[12:31] <HrdwrBoB> \sh: yeah
[12:31] <Nafallo> where, "Joe User" == girlfriend ;-)
[12:31] <mjg59> seb128: Oh, right. I missed it because it's using some insane build system
[12:31] <HrdwrBoB> realistically this is something that needs to be in a 'power management' dialog
[12:32] <\sh> Nafallo: your solution should be: delete pr0n stuff ,)
[12:32] <Nafallo> \sh: baah. that's on the server. she can use her own client to fetch those :-).
[12:32] <mpt> HrdwrBob: yeah, screensaver config <-> power management config is a really ugly continuum
[12:32] <sabdfl> do i need xlibs-data?
[12:32] <seb128> mjg59: cdbs and simple-patchsys is nice
[12:32] <mpt> Windows and OS X are both annoying in that respect
[12:32] <ogra> sabdfl, for gnome-screensaver ?
[12:32] <sabdfl> at all?
[12:32] <seb128> \sh: and I'll not install KDE to try that :p
[12:33] <mjg59> seb128: It means if I do apt-get source, I need to do other things to actually get the source that will build, which is always a pain...
[12:33] <sabdfl> nothing seems to depend on it
[12:33] <\sh> seb128: hehehe....coward ,-)
[12:33] <ogra> sabdfl, ... i think its a transitional package 
[12:33] <seb128> mjg59: oh, that, right
[12:34] <seb128> \sh: anyway, I'll comment on the bug after trying from the command line
[12:34] <Nafallo> sabdfl: if you got space for it you could aswell keep it till daniels says otherwise ;-). that policy wfm :-).
[12:34] <\sh> seb128: actually we need only on piece of evidence for blaming at least kernel, apps or libs, or the beast 
[12:34] <ogra> sabdfl, it pulls in xcursor-themes and xkeyboard-config 
[12:34] <seb128> sabdfl: I update and use gnome-screensaver for 2 months, it's nice and works fine
[12:34] <\sh> s/on/one/
[12:34] <sabdfl> bugger it, i'll let the system remove it and see what happens
[12:35] <sabdfl> nothing seems to depend on it
[12:35] <sabdfl> seb128: ok, in your hands i have a lot of confidence already :-)
[12:35] <mdz> ogra: speaking of sound, we should disable that by default
[12:35] <Nafallo> famous last words... ;-)
[12:35] <sabdfl> let me play with it
[12:35] <mdz> that @#$@# fireworks screensaver woke me up last night
[12:35] <seb128> sabdfl: thanks :)
[12:35] <sabdfl> errr.. sound?
[12:35] <sabdfl> oh
[12:35] <mdz> BOOM BOOM BOOM
[12:36] <seb128> sabdfl: Novell guys did a security review and said there is no issue with it too
[12:36] <mpt> I use that screensaver, I didn't realize it had sound
[12:36] <sabdfl> dude, you live in l.a.
[12:36] <mdz> I close my windows at night
[12:36] <ogra> mdz, we're just tracking 14967 in esd direction... i was thinking about ripping it out :)
[12:36] <Nafallo> Fireworkx?
[12:36] <\sh> ogra: esd is not to blame
[12:36] <\sh> ogra: it happened to me without esd
[12:36] <ogra> \sh, sure ? 
[12:36] <ogra> gah
[12:36] <\sh> ogra: yes
[12:36] <mdz> ogra: I don't even see a checkbox in preferences for it
[12:36] <seb128> that's a plain inotify bug imho
[12:37] <ogra> mdz, oh, you mean xscreensaver (i'm so in edubuntu)
[12:37] <Lathiat> the only thing that annoys me about gnome-screensaver is that its horribly slow bringing up the unlock dialog and even more so when the system is under cpu or i/o load (it took 25 seconds once) it really needs to cache this window or something
[12:37] <\sh> seb128: play with the console and check again
[12:38] <ogra> mdz, sabdfl #15284 for your amusement :)
[12:38] <Nafallo> Lathiat: ehm, and xscreensaver just pops it up?
[12:38] <Lathiat> Nafallo: xscreensaver is instant all the timer
[12:38] <Lathiat> gnome-screensaver can typically take at least a second or two
[12:38] <schweeb> gnome-screensaver is fucking slow
[12:38] <Nafallo> hmm, this laptop _should not_ try to do gl :-P
[12:39] <mpt> fwiw, the OS X unlock dialog regularly takes 10~20 seconds
[12:39] <Lathiat> if they could fix that issue i'd love it
[12:39] <mdz> Lathiat: it'd be a good match for gdm then
[12:39] <\sh> ogra: this is a joke, right?
[12:39] <Lathiat> mdz: eh?
[12:39] <ogra> \sh, nope, thats a serious bug :)
[12:39] <mdz> \sh: most likely, but the premise is valid
[12:39] <sabdfl> seb128: think you can fix the time-to-display problem?
[12:39] <Lathiat> mpt: wow, screw using macosx. :)
[12:39] <mdz> Lathiat,sabdfl: gdm slowness bug is http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15373
[12:40] <\sh> mdz / ogra: this bug should be in the top 10 ,-)
[12:40] <seb128> sabdfl: need to figure why it's slow first, but probably yep
[12:40] <ogra> heh
[12:40] <sabdfl> being slower to start screensaver is better than slower to exit
[12:41] <sabdfl> so, in theory, to setup fglrx should just require which command?
[12:41] <mdz> mjg59: can that code be in one place instead of 2?
[12:41] <mjg59> mdz: The hdparm stuff? There's no reason why not
[12:41] <mdz> sabdfl: I was just noticing recently that we don't seem to have an equivalent of nvidia-glx-config
[12:41] <mdz> sabdfl: we ought to
[12:41] <seb128> brb, trying inotify
[12:42] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, fglrx is nasty to setup, with much breakage
[12:42] <sabdfl> ok
[12:42] <Lathiat> mdz: equivalent to nvidia-glx-confnig for what?
[12:42] <Lathiat> mdz: fglrx?
[12:42] <mdz> Lathiat: yes
[12:42] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, contrast https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
[12:43] <Lathiat> betweeen my ATI and my Nvidia, all i ever had to do was stick fglrx/nvidia in my xorg.conf and it worked
[12:43] <Lathiat> no loading modules, etc
[12:43] <\sh> Lathiat: because it's loading automatically 
[12:43] <Lathiat> \sh: whatever the cause those pages appear to be unncesarily complicated
[12:44] <Lathiat> well, nvidia isnt so bad
[12:44] <ogra> Lathiat++
[12:44] <Lathiat> NoLogo is nice for nvidia tho
[12:44] <\sh> Lathiat: correct
[12:44] <Lathiat> cus it delays X startup 
[12:45] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, you are lucky, a lot of people have trouble with nvidia/ati drivers
[12:45] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: yeh?
[12:45] <ogra> Lathiat, but its not nice to advise the user to edit xorg.conf without a warning that automated upgrades wont work anymore
[12:45] <Lathiat> things work for me all the time that never work for anyone else, but the bugs i do get *no-one* else gets
[12:45] <Lathiat> ogra: yeh well the wiki has alot of sucky guides
[12:46] <ogra> it was better once
[12:46] <Lathiat> maybe when im bored one day i'll go do some mass non-sucking
[12:46] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, feel free to edit
[12:46] <Lathiat> #ubuntu is terrible too
[12:46] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, CategoryCleanup
[12:46] <ogra> at least the nvidia/ati page
[12:46] <mpt> wikis are addictive
[12:46] <Burgundavia> the doc team hasn't worked on the wiki much, been working on the shipping docs
[12:47] <HrdwrBoB> Lathiat: #ubuntu is bad because the general clue of the users in there has gone down
[12:47] <bob2> f/scroe
[12:47] <HrdwrBoB> because most semi intelligent life forms have worked out how to use it by now
[12:47] <Lathiat> HrdwrBoB: its never really been much good for quite a while
[12:48] <Lathiat> as such i get stuck there whenever i join
[12:48] <Lathiat> blind leading the blind
[12:48] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[12:48] <Burgundavia> a lot of us have also fled #ubuntu as the level goes down
[12:48] <seb128> got the bug from the command line 
[12:48] <seb128> on box startup with no gdm
[12:48] <\sh> which is normal with all support channels...when the hype comes...
[12:48] <seb128> that plain inotify bug
[12:49] <\sh> seb128: hmmmm....
[12:49] <\sh> ok
[12:49] <karlheg> Isn't the gnome-panel "System --> Administration" menu only supposed to show up if you are in group 'admin' now?
[12:49] <ogra> \sh, i stopped esd an hour ago, no disappearing menu so far...it never persiste this long yet
[12:49] <\sh> ogra: u have load on your box? 
[12:49] <ogra> persisted even
[12:49] <seb128> karlheg: the code for it is here but the .desktop have not been updated
[12:49] <Lathiat> what bug are we chasing?
[12:49] <\sh> seb128: I just /etc/init.d/gdm stopped it
[12:50] <\sh> Lathiat: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14967
[12:50] <seb128> I mved this file away and reboot the box
[12:50] <ogra> \sh, just normal stuff going on, but it disappears after some minutes normally
[12:50] <seb128> so command line boot
[12:50] <Lathiat> ah that one
[12:50] <seb128> I had a load of 7 when it happened, maybe it need to be pushed a bit over 
[12:50] <\sh> ogra: well...I checked my system the last times quite good..and the load was always near 1 or above
[12:51] <\sh> ogra: and when I did the test without esd I produced load up to 3 
[12:51] <seb128> one updatedb and one pbuilder is a good way to push it :)
[12:51] <\sh> seb128: pbuilder qt two times ;) 
[12:51] <seb128> maybe that's not the load but the IOs
[12:51] <ogra> \sh, i never needed to produce any load to make it disappear
[12:51] <karlheg> seb128, Ah.  Can I help?
[12:51] <Lathiat> 4 times for extra effect
[12:52] <Lathiat> having 4 pbuilders on the go usually eats mjy machine
[12:52] <seb128> karlheg: not really, the changes were just a bit on the limit with the freeze so they got delayed
[12:52] <\sh> ogra: no...if you have something running which produces cpu/io load this could be the bug...but I'm really not sure ... /me is just a "idonknonothing" ,-)
[12:53] <ogra> \sh, i'm just telleing what i observe... there was never any special load on the box when my menu disappeared
[12:54] <seb128> \sh was saying that too 2 days ago
[12:54] <seb128> when I said that ross and me have the issue when the box is loaded
[12:54] <ogra> i'll produce some load...
[12:55] <\sh> seb128: add applications is not translated?
[12:56] <seb128> mvo changed the title to drop /Remove this week
[12:56] <seb128> so I guess translators have not catch up yet
[12:56] <seb128> that a .desktop to translate
[12:56] <\sh> hmm
[12:57] <seb128> you speak about the panel entry or the app?
[12:57] <\sh> think my gnome is completly screwed...the gksu box is in english and the rest german...
[12:57] <\sh> seb128: the panel entry
[12:57] <sabdfl> seb128: any reason we don't include gnome-splashscreen-manager?
[12:57] <\sh> and I hve two
[12:57] <ogra> seb128, agreed, it goes with the load
[12:57] <sabdfl> oh
[12:57] <sabdfl> ruby
[12:57] <ogra> sabdfl, the same why we dont include gnome-art 
[12:58] <sabdfl> so, with gnome-screensaver, should i remove xscreensaver and xscreensaver-gl?
[12:58] <seb128> sabdfl: nobody asked to ship it, and yeah ruby ...
[12:58] <\sh> hmm...
[12:58] <sabdfl> daniels: +1, fglrx Just Worked for me
[12:59] <Burgundavia> sabdfl, g-s will simply overide xscreensaver
[12:59] <sabdfl> will run screensavers all night and see if its solid
[12:59] <seb128> sabdfl: no, GNOME uses gnome-screensaver first when installed and it uses xscreensaver hacks when they are installed
[12:59] <sabdfl> ok
[12:59] <ogra> sabdfl, if you want to use the hacks, leave them in place 
[12:59] <sabdfl> hacks?
[12:59] <\sh> update-manager -> updating package lists -> the toaster appeared too late
[12:59] <ogra> the single screensavers are called hacks
[12:59] <seb128> sabdfl: the graphics, themes or whatever you call that ... they use "hacks" for them
[01:00] <mdz> elmo: does dholbach have an @ubuntu.com email now?
[01:00] <seb128> sabdfl: we should split xscreensaver to make a -data package 
[01:00] <sabdfl> hmm..system->lock screen stopped working
[01:00] <ogra> mdz, he has an launchpad account
[01:00] <sabdfl> seb128: yes, and by default only include the screensavers we turn on
[01:00] <Lathiat> sabdfl: have to start the daemon (since you didnt logout first)
[01:00] <sabdfl> have a -extra package for the rest
[01:00] <mdz> ogra: that is not the same thing
[01:01] <sabdfl> i have two screensaver items in System -> preferences
[01:01] <Nafallo> sabdfl: I can confirm that :-).
[01:01] <seb128> sabdfl: is gnome-screensaver running? It's started with the session, not sure if it starts by itself when you get it from a running session
[01:01] <sabdfl> ok, will log out
[01:01] <seb128> sabdfl: yeah, that will be fixed before GNOME 2.12.1
[01:01] <lifeless> is it expected that closing the laptop lid during boot stops X coming up ?
[01:01] <ogra> mdz, but the result is quite similar
[01:02] <mdz> ogra: creating a launchpad account does not result in an ubuntu.com email alias
[01:03] <ogra> mdz, he has a valid ubuntite launchpad account 
[01:04] <Lathiat> ogra: i thought you had to be a member to get the email
[01:04] <ogra> mdz, dh@ubuntu.com should work afaik
[01:04] <ogra> Lathiat, yes, dholbach is a member
[01:04] <mdz> Lathiat: you do, and at any rate, it isn't automated
[01:04] <mdz> at least not fully
[01:05] <\sh> mdz: what about changing the LP username, is the alias renamed as well? but I think this is more a question for elmo
[01:05] <ogra> \sh, nope for #launchpad
[01:05] <mdz> \sh: elmo or #launchpad
[01:06] <Nafallo> \sh: I think so. slomo did that :-).
[01:06] <Nafallo> \sh: a cron.hourly had to be runned or something :-P
[01:07] <mdz> we've enjoyed 'warthy' and 'horry' and now 'brezzy'
[01:07] <ogra> heh
[01:07] <\sh> You don't have permission to access /~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html on this server.
[01:07] <\sh> bah
[01:08] <ogra> \sh, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/
[01:09] <mjg59> Ah, shit.
[01:09] <mjg59> Can't add hibernate support without adding a string.
[01:09] <bddebian> mdz: ??
[01:09] <bddebian> Ohh, missed the misspelling statement
[01:10] <Burgundavia> mjg59, where?
[01:10] <bddebian> Drapper, Diaper, ...
[01:10] <\sh> ogra: just hit the cron job ;)
[01:10] <ogra> i think "daper" has already some popularity
[01:10] <Burgundavia> mjg59, it is likely the doc team has not even documented where you adding a string
[01:11] <ogra> \sh, heh, yes, now my script has it too :)
[01:11] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Keyboard shortcuts interface
[01:11] <Burgundavia> mjg59, just a sec, I don't think we talk about it
[01:12] <Nafallo> hehe, string freeze exceptions on the way :-P
[01:12] <\sh> last cigarette for this night
[01:13] <ogra> good idea (even it wont be the last tonight) :)
[01:13] <Nafallo> \sh: s/night/life/ and I would've been happy for you ;-)
[01:14] <Burgundavia> mjg59, go ahead, we don't have docs that mention the keyboard stuff
[01:14] <Burgundavia> mjg59, and the upstream gnome ones are hopelessly out of date anyway
[01:14] <\sh> Nafallo: no ways ;) actually not for this year  ;)
[01:14] <\sh> hmm..libxine1 has unmet dep
[01:14] <Nafallo> \sh: see, I won't be happy for you :-P
[01:14] <bddebian> \sh: You're a workaholic ;-)
[01:15] <Nafallo> bddebian: haven't you figured yet? ;-)
[01:15] <\sh> bddebian: I'm bored
[01:16] <Nafallo> \sh: with you onboard we will have the DapperGoals in before it starts :-P
[01:16] <bddebian> Hehe
[01:16] <\sh> Nafallo: Hey, sometimes I have a life ;)
[01:16] <karlheg> \sh I quit smoking ten years ago.  It was the best thing I ever did for myself.
[01:16] <\sh> and some other work to do ;)
[01:16] <Nafallo> \sh: like when? ;-)
[01:17] <\sh> karlheg: well...I just tried it 2 years ago...with some nicotine spray from ZA ;)
[01:17] <\sh> karlheg: Name is "Quit" 
[01:17] <\sh> karlheg: I just stopped for 6 months...after that the spray was empty ;)
[01:17] <ogra> sladen, "xscreensaver can be put into 'suspend' mode" ??
[01:19] <\sh> mdz / Kamion: am I allowed to upload xine-lib to fix libmodplug0 unmet dep?
[01:19] <mdz> \sh: just a rebuild?
[01:19] <bddebian> \sh: So what have you left for me? :-)
[01:19] <\sh> mdz: yepp...testing now
[01:19] <\sh> bddebian: many things ;)
[01:20] <\sh> libmodplug0 is now libmodplug0c2 so it has to pull in the new dep
[01:20] <karlheg> \sh Just Do It.  Crumble the pack and make a basket.
[01:21] <bddebian> Hmm, reminds me, I need a cig. ;-)
[01:21] <karlheg> \sh Every time the "little voice" or "little urge" nags you to smoke one, tell it to go to hell.
[01:21] <karlheg> \sh Take a few deep breaths of air instead.
[01:22] <karlheg> bddebian, Poison!
[01:22] <sabdfl> hey guys
[01:22] <Nafallo> \sh: my libxine1c2 wants libmodplug0c2 already
[01:23] <Nafallo> sabdfl: yes? :-)
[01:23] <ogra> sabdfl, everything fine ? 
[01:23] <\sh> Nafallo: you're right....what is with my cache files
[01:24] <Nafallo> \sh: my girlfriend upgraded lately, so I was a bit puzzled :-).
[01:24] <\sh> Nafallo: no...I shows me ubuntu3.1
[01:24] <\sh> strange
[01:24] <Nafallo> sounds like -security...
[01:25] <\sh> no..I don't have these sources in my sources.list
[01:25] <Nafallo> \sh: you are looking at libxine1c2, right?
[01:25] <Nafallo> well, .X use to be security anyway :-)
[01:25] <\sh> Nafallo: moment..let me renew everything...all my cache files..this is quite strange
[01:26] <\sh> hmm...gone
[01:26] <\sh> I think I have to do a complete new setup of breezy tomorrow
[01:27] <\sh> mdz: forget the requet
[01:27] <\sh> +s
[01:27] <bddebian> Heya sabdfl 
[01:27] <mdz> seb128,dholbach: all my icons are broken after my most recent upgrade
[01:27] <mdz>  onoly a few package schanged, incuding rsvg
[01:27] <sabdfl> hiya bddebian
[01:27] <bddebian> ubuntu3.1? wtf is that?
[01:28] <Lathiat> workgroup edition
[01:28] <ogra> bddebian, security update
[01:28] <bddebian> Ohh
[01:28] <bddebian> Lathiat: *lol*
[01:28] <\sh> Nafallo: what does LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet give you as the first hit?
[01:28] <seb128> mdz: nautilus? panel? both? what theme do you use? 
[01:28] <bddebian> \sh: OK hero, tell me what I should work on next ;-)
[01:28] <seb128> mdz: I've not updated librsvg2 yet, dholbach worked on the update ... lemme try here
[01:29] <cave> I can confirm the same png problem in the panels.
[01:29] <\sh> bddebian: FIXME ,-) there are a lot of packages with your name ;)
[01:29] <bddebian> Done! ;-)
[01:29] <mdz> seb128: it was uploaded
[01:29] <seb128> cave: which one?
[01:29] <mjg59> seb128: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/hibernate_key.diff
[01:30] <\sh> strange
[01:30] <mdz> seb128: most menu icons, all panel icons, some nautilus icons
[01:30] <mdz> seb128: all the svg ones maybe?
[01:30] <Nafallo> \sh: Package php4-sqlite version 1.0.2-7build1 has an unmet dep:
[01:30] <Nafallo>  Depends: phpapi-20020918 | zendapi-20020429
[01:30] <seb128> mdz: what theme do you use?
[01:30] <cave> The same as matt had i think. got some info on that on ubuntu.se
[01:30] <cave> had/have
[01:30] <sabdfl> seb128: .png icons are broken for me
[01:30] <mdz> seb128: human
[01:30] <mdz> seb128: with the human icon theme
[01:30] <seb128> k, so .png is broken for everybody
[01:30] <cave> human here also.
[01:31] <\sh> Nafallo: which should be corrected
[01:31] <seb128> he said he would break the panel one day, not the icons 
[01:31] <ogra> hmm, the changelog doesnt reflect that...
[01:31] <mdz> ogra: what would be involved in porting your ltsp xscreensaver patch to gnome-screensaver?
[01:31] <bddebian> WTH where you peole thinking scheduling UBZ over Halloween? :-(
[01:31] <\sh> Nafallo: since wednesday
[01:32] <ogra> mdz, i think gnome-screensaver already has an blank only option, let me look...
[01:32] <Burgundavia> ogra, yes it does
[01:32] <Nafallo> \sh: well... I update from archive.ubuntu.com through apt-proxy every halfhour. :-)
[01:32] <ajmitch> bddebian: some of us don't do anything for halloween :)
[01:32] <Burgundavia> ogra, should g-s be tunring the lcd backlight off?
[01:32] <Nafallo> \sh: did it build on amd64?
[01:32] <bddebian> ajmitch: Sacriledge :-)
[01:33] <\sh> Nafallo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/php4-sqlite/1.0.2-7build1/
[01:33] <ajmitch> \sh: looked like it must have FTBFS
[01:33] <ogra> Burgundavia, no idea, i didnt work much with gnome-screensaver yet... i only inspected it once
[01:33] <ajmitch> \sh: why build1?
[01:34] <seb128> mdz: k, I get the issue too
[01:34] <\sh> ajmitch: because of  ./configure --with-php-config=/usr/bin/php-config
[01:34] <mdz> seb128: I think it's rsvg
[01:34] <\sh> ajmitch: I checked on my local pbuilder...it pulls in the correct phpapiver...at least here
[01:35] <Nafallo> \sh: hmm, 1.0.2-7build1 is the version I have though.
[01:35] <mdz> the only things changed were:
[01:35] <ogra> Burgundavia, from where do you know that g-s has a --blank-only function ? it hasnt even a manpage... not to talk about broken --help
[01:35] <mdz>   acpi-support acpid alsa-utils libgksu1.2-0 libnewt0.51 librsvg2-2
[01:35] <mdz>   librsvg2-common python-newt readahead readahead-list whiptail
[01:35] <sabdfl> seb128: gnome-screensaver rocks
[01:35] <\sh> ajmitch: it's different from the others
[01:35] <seb128> sabdfl: cool :)
[01:35] <Burgundavia> ogra, I run it. You can select blank only
[01:35] <sabdfl> pls discuss going ahead with this with mdz
[01:35] <sabdfl> id like to change the dialog though
[01:35] <ogra> Burgundavia, thats not what i'm looking for
[01:35] <sabdfl> get rid of the "Welcome to $host"
[01:35] <Burgundavia> ogra, hmm
[01:35] <seb128> mdz: sure that's librsvg2-2, I've just apt-get install to update that and I get the issue
[01:35] <sabdfl> and shrink it vertically
[01:35] <mdz> seb128: can we back it out?
[01:36] <seb128> sabdfl: k
[01:36] <sabdfl> moving the padlock down till its aligned next to the text/login
[01:36] <seb128> mdz: let's figure what is broken
[01:36] <sabdfl> mpt: ack?
[01:36] <ajmitch> \sh: ok, but it still has the old version in the binary produced
[01:36] <mdz> I wonder why it didn't break for dholbach when he tested it before uploading
[01:36] <mjg59> Ok. Is the plan to go with gnome-screensaver?
[01:37] <seb128> mdz: maybe he didn't restarted anything or maybe he uses an another theme
[01:37] <Nafallo> mjg59: sounds like it :-)
[01:37] <ogra> mjg59, sounds like 
[01:37] <mjg59> Right. I'll sort out acpi-support support later on.
[01:37] <\sh> ajmitch: php4-kadm5 
[01:37] <mdz> mjg59: leaning in that direction
[01:37] <mjg59> How often does stuff hit the archive?
[01:37] <mdz> mjg59: assuming there are no problems carrynig over our customizations
[01:37] <mdz> mjg59: 30 minutes
[01:38] <mjg59> Ok
[01:38] <\sh> ajmitch: this one I changed to phpapiver=$(shell php-config --phpapi)
[01:38] <mjg59> It would be nice if some hacks from xscreensaver could be brought across
[01:39] <mjg59> Ideally not the utterly insane ones
[01:39] <mjg59> (And not that bloody Matrix one that results in faces peering out of my screen at me)
[01:39] <Nafallo> mjg59: they are, if you got xscreensaver installed.
[01:39] <ogra> mjg59, all we shipped before :)
[01:39] <ogra> Nafallo, thats unclen, we need to spilt them out
[01:39] <mjg59> Nafallo: Having gnome-screensaver depend on xscreensaver would be... less than optimal
[01:40] <ogra> mjg59, xscreensaver-data with the hacks we had enabled by default before should be right
[01:40] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah
[01:40] <mjg59> ogra: Though the Matrix one only became freaky and irritating post-Hoary, IIRC
[01:40] <ajmitch> \sh: php4-kadm5 had the phpapi depend hardcoded in debian/control
[01:41] <ogra> mdz, i have a /apps/gnome-screensaver/mode gconf key, that can be set to blank-only :)
[01:43] <mjg59> Argh why do people have hibernation issues that I can't reproduce on *identical hardware*?
[01:44] <Burgundavia> mjg59, ask them to reinstall and the first thing they do is hibernate
[01:45] <mjg59> seb128: Did you grab that patch?
[01:45] <cogumbreiro> seb128: i've fixed all the bugs on serpentine! :) i'm happy
[01:46] <seb128> mjg59: nop, could you copy the URL again?
[01:46] <seb128> cogumbreiro: cool
[01:47] <mjg59> seb128: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/hibernate_key.diff
[01:48] <seb128> thanks
[01:49] <sabdfl> cogumbreiro: good work
[01:49] <cogumbreiro> thx sabdfl :)
[01:49] <cogumbreiro> Daniel Holbach talked with me about the bugs remaining on serpentine, does that mean that if I do a release (in a few minutes) it will make it in breezy?
[01:49] <ogra> cogumbreiro, you should apply for membership ;) thats a major contribution
[01:50] <cogumbreiro> membership? ubuntu membership?
[01:50] <ogra> sure
[01:50] <cogumbreiro> cool! :)
[01:50] <tseng> iirc upstream maintainership != membership
[01:50] <tseng> not to be a downer
[01:51] <tseng> just the precedent
[01:51] <ogra> tseng, iirc apply for != youre accepted already
[01:51] <cogumbreiro> i would also like to create some events envolving linux in my university, don't know if it would be a plus on the membership
[01:51] <cogumbreiro> (*membership proposal)
[01:52] <ogra> cogumbreiro, vreate a wikipage about you that outlines who you are and what you have done for ubuntu...
[01:52] <ogra> create even
[01:52] <cogumbreiro> ogra: will do
[01:53] <ogra> cogumbreiro, and add yourself here https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join and here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda and come to the next CommunityCouncil meeting :)
[01:54] <cogumbreiro> cool :) thx alot ogra
[01:54] <ogra> ;)
[01:54] <ogra> cogumbreiro, would be nice to have you aboard :)
[01:55] <ajmitch> ogra: why haven't you recruited him for MOTU as well? ;)
[01:55] <bddebian> Yeah
[01:55] <ogra> ajmitch, step by step ;)
[01:56] <cogumbreiro> lol
[01:56] <tseng> because you wouldnt leave
[01:56] <tseng> :P
[01:56] <bddebian> tseng: Ohh, ouch.  That was a good one. :-)
[01:56] <Nafallo> haha
[01:56] <tseng> hah
[01:57] <tseng> it would be fun.
[01:57] <ogra> thats what i imagine :)
[01:57] <cogumbreiro> lol
[01:57] <tseng> maybe for dapper+1
[01:58] <tseng> we'll both be there
[01:58] <ajmitch> bddebian: I'm surprised you haven't gone to visit tseng yet :)
[01:58] <tseng> oh thats right
[01:58] <ajmitch> both in PA?
[01:58] <tseng> yeah
[01:58] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:58] <bddebian> You are in PA?
[01:59] <tseng> (sorry).
[01:59] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:59] <bddebian> ogra: Why, I have no problems with tseng  :-)
[01:59] <ogra> *grin* tseng anastacia hale
[02:00] <ajmitch> bbl, lunchtime
[02:04] <Nafallo> wow! those bittorrentclients posted to the mailing-list seems stunning by the screenshoots
[02:04] <Nafallo> something tells me we will switch client for dapper :-P
[02:05] <ogra> Nafallo, you mean avalanche ? 
[02:06] <Nafallo> ogra: well, I still consider freeloader to. let's make this a fair competition ;-).
[02:06] <cogumbreiro> Nafallo: my opinion would be to fix the problems of gnome-bittorrent
[02:07] <Nafallo> cogumbreiro: well, I haven't tried those two yet. I always found gnome-bittorrent not filling my demands on a good client though.
[02:07] <ogra> Nafallo, thats a competition that began before hoary.... 
[02:07] <Nafallo> ogra: well, those two should be in universe early in the next cycle ;-)
[02:07] <ogra> Nafallo, absolutely
[02:08] <ogra> Nafallo, if the transitions and fixing finishes early, we could look into getting them even in breezy...
[02:08] <cogumbreiro> haven't seen freeloader
[02:09] <Nafallo> ogra: indeed
[02:10] <\sh> ogra: early?
[02:10] <ogra> \sh, i mean not arly in the morning ..
[02:10] <ogra> early even
[02:11] <\sh> ogra: u saw the "FIXME" list of bddebian?
[02:11] <ogra> \sh, thast bddebian's list... thats special ;)
[02:11] <\sh> ogra: bah
[02:11] <ogra> *g*
[02:11] <Nafallo> both seems to be rather dead upstream looking at the release dates of their latest versions
[02:11] <\sh> ogra: and the rest of apt-get.org ;9
[02:11] <ogra> yup
[02:12] <seb128> mdz: I've an idea on the SVG issue
[02:13] <bddebian> \sh: Nah, I changed them all to StephenHermann ;-P
[02:13] <seb128> cogumbreiro: around?
[02:13] <\sh> bddebian: good..it's not me ;)
[02:13] <mdz> seb128: what is it?
[02:14] <seb128> mdz: a min, trying my change
[02:14] <mpt> sabdfl: So you want a bit of love to gnome-screensaver's dialog? sure
[02:14] <seb128> mdz: gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders
[02:15] <tseng> daniels: oh so i have my photos back
[02:15] <seb128> mdz: basically previous definition is 
[02:15] <seb128> ""<?xml" "" 50
[02:15] <seb128> "<svg" "" 100
[02:15] <seb128> "<!DOCTYPE svg" "" 100"
[02:15] <seb128> mdz: the new version drop the <?xml option
[02:15] <mjg59> Ah.
[02:15] <cogumbreiro> seb128: yes
[02:15] <seb128> mdz: and /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/apps/mozilla-firefox.svg by example start with <?xml
[02:16] <cogumbreiro> seb128: trying to make the Muine plugin compilation an option in configure...
[02:16] <seb128> cogumbreiro: does serpentine manage translations now?
[02:16] <cogumbreiro> seb128: yes, and already has a PT translation
[02:16] <seb128> cogumbreiro: we want the new version! :)
[02:16] <cogumbreiro> seb128: ehehe cool :D
[02:17] <ogra> yay
[02:17] <mjg59> jbailey: Ping?
[02:17] <cogumbreiro> seb128: just let me tame configure.ac :P
[02:18] <cogumbreiro> when and where is the next ubuntu reunion?
[02:18] <seb128> cogumbreiro: /j #ubuntu-meeting and read the topic :)
[02:18] <cogumbreiro> cool :)
[02:18] <mjg59> jbailey: Would it be possible to have a two-pass hotplug run on boot - once for internal storage devices, followed by a resume attempt, followed by the rest of the boot?
[02:19] <\sh> cogumbreiro: wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar 
[02:20] <mjg59> jbailey: In fact, it looks like that would be quite easy
[02:21] <cogumbreiro> \sh: thx :)
[02:22] <ogra> cogumbreiro, if you want to go further and become a package maintainer, you should start hanging around in #ubuntu-motu ;)
[02:26] <cogumbreiro> lol, so many channels :)
[02:26] <ogra> yes, ubuntu has grown a lot ...
[02:32] <seb128> mdz: patched librsvg uploaded
[02:36] <mdz> seb128: fantastic, thanks
[02:36] <seb128> mdz: np
[02:36] <seb128> mdz: the issue is quite Ubuntu theme specific :)
[02:37] <mdz> seb128: we should test these changes with Ubuntu themes ;-)
[02:37] <ogra> seb128, huh ? arent other themes not using svg artwork ?
[02:37] <seb128> mdz: they dropped the <?xml case but usually icon match <svg ....excepted than Ubuntu icon (ie: /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/apps/mozilla-firefox.svg) have some lines on comment before it which breaks the detection
[02:37] <mdz> why did they make that change?  it doesn't sound like a bug fix
[02:37] <seb128> s/icon/icons/
[02:39] <daniels> sabdfl: excellent
[02:40] <seb128> mdz: "make so that non-svg things don't get passed to us" according to the changelog
[02:40] <daniels> Treenaks: ... what of it?
[02:40] <daniels> Treenaks: oh, that.  yeah, the l-r-m changelog is a little midleading.
[02:40] <daniels> misleading, also.
[02:40] <daniels> tseng: cool
[02:40] <seb128> mdz: <?xml is generic xml, svg icons have to use <svg anyway, so they don't catch wrong files
[02:41] <seb128> mdz: maybe we should change the 100 chars for "<svg'" 200 rather than using "<?xml". I'll discuss that with them tomorrow, but the patch fixes the issue for the moment
[02:44] <ogra> seb128, i doubt the people designing themes for gnome-look.org care for the header their svg app throws out... i know lots of svg pics that have the xml header
[02:44] <seb128> ogra: they have <svg too
[02:44] <ogra> seb128, yes...
[02:45] <seb128> ogra: better to match on <svg than <?xml, so you don't get non-svg listed as svg
[02:46] <ogra> hmm, true
[02:46] <tseng> oh
[02:46] <tseng> installing procmail would help if you forward all your mail to it
[02:46] <tseng> and wonder where its going
[02:47] <ogra> heh
[02:47] <ogra> tseng, oh, btw, did you sort out the n-m upload with elmo ?
[02:47] <tseng> ogra: no ive not seen him
[02:47] <tseng> both of us working alot during the day, i guess
[02:48] <tseng> Nafallo: any chance you could try to sort it?
[02:48] <tseng> Nafallo: since you touched it last :P
[02:48] <ogra> hmm, ok, i'll care for it then, i'll try not to forget to ask him if i meet him next time..
[02:49] <tseng> ok
[02:49] <tseng> thanks
[02:49] <Nafallo> tseng: sure :-). I'll find him ASAP
[02:49] <Nafallo> or ogra, whichever :-)
[02:50] <\sh> hmm..MOTUs never sleep ,-)
[02:50] <bddebian> Damn tootin' ;-)
[02:51] <Nafallo> \sh: I tried to :-P
[02:51] <Nafallo> \sh: now I'm making a NEW package ;-)
[02:51] <tseng> `wtf sleep`
[02:51] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:51] <\sh> Nafallo: I just saw that knoda isn't building cleanly so I fix this now 
[02:52] <Nafallo> btw, postgis should be multiverse. I've mailed elmo about that :-).
[02:52] <Nafallo> libpgjava resides there, and is a build-dep.
[02:52] <\sh> going /quit
[02:54] <ogra> \sh, wow, short night for you ?
[02:55] <\sh> hehe...crappy dsl
[02:55] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:55] <bddebian> hehe
[02:55] <seb128> time to sleep here, 'night
[02:55] <ogra> night seb128 
[02:55] <\sh> seb128: long ago ;)
[02:55] <Nafallo> gnight seb128 
[02:55] <\sh> seb128: g'night...going as well..
[02:56] <cogumbreiro> good night seb128 :)
[02:56] <ogra> night \sh 
[02:56] <ajmitch> \sh: some of us have to sleep
[02:56] <Nafallo> gnight \sh :-)
[02:56] <bddebian> Gnight \sh, rockin' as always :-)
[02:56] <cogumbreiro> man serpentine is not make dist'ing :(
[02:56] <\sh> ajmitch: u slept already ;)
[02:57] <ajmitch> \sh: yes
[02:57] <\sh> ajmitch: btw..all php4 stuff is ok now...
[02:57] <ajmitch> \sh: I can't work 23 & 1/2 hours a day on MOTU stuff like you :P
[02:57] <ajmitch> good
[02:58] <\sh> ajmitch: what should I do with my free time?;)
[02:58] <jbailey> mjg59: Yes, easy enough.  I can do it for this upload, I think.
[02:58] <ajmitch> \sh: fix the universe
[02:59] <jbailey> mjg59: So we're clear that means that hiberation can only be resumed from local storage, not usb, firewire or nbd, then.
[02:59] <\sh> ajmitch: I will find the answer to 42...someday
[02:59] <ogra> \sh, 42 *is* the answer
[02:59] <\sh> ogra: the question of course ... u see I'm tired
[03:00] <ogra> :)
[03:00] <ogra> yes, i know what you mean...
[03:00] <ajmitch> :)
[03:00] <mjg59> jbailey: For now, yeah
[03:01] <mjg59> jbailey: I have a patch, if you'd like it?
[03:01] <\sh> hmmm
[03:02] <\sh> ok..that's for knoda...uploading and sleeping g'night gentlemen
[03:02] <ajmitch> night \sh 
[03:03] <\sh> *yawn* and gone
[03:05] <mjg59> jbailey: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/initramfs.diff
[03:09] <jbailey> mjg59: Sweet, thanks.
[03:09] <mjg59> jbailey: Probably wants the resume code to be a bit nicer, but still
[03:09] <jbailey> mjg59: Hmm.  Where did you delete the old resume code from?
[03:09] <mjg59> I didn't
[03:09] <mjg59> I thought I'd leave that up to you :)
[03:10] <jbailey> Okay. =)
[03:10] <jbailey> It's just one file to delete I guess.
[03:10] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:10] <jbailey> This still leaves me with the ugly problem that I can't tell if the USB bus scan is finished.
[03:10] <mjg59> Yeah, though it's no worse than before...
[03:11] <jbailey> I wonder if I should have some way that if the device isn't available to sleep 2, redo the udevstart and try again?
[03:11] <mjg59> One thing that has suddenly struct me, though
[03:11] <wasabi_> struct. haha
[03:11] <mjg59> If you load uhci-hcd first, then devices may end up bound to that
[03:11] <mjg59> When you actually want them to be bound to ehci-hcd
[03:11] <mjg59> I shouldn't IRC while I've got code in another window
[03:11] <jbailey> Do I intentioanlly load them at all?  I thought I had all of that as autodetection based on PCI Id.
[03:11] <jbailey> (I have about 2 mins before my wife hauls me off for dinner)
[03:12] <mjg59> jbailey: Yeah. But you might hit uhci-hcd first
[03:12] <mjg59> I'm not sure what happens in that case
[03:12] <jbailey> Do they coexist in the system, or serve the same devices?
[03:12] <mjg59> They coexist
[03:12] <jbailey> Joy.
[03:12] <jbailey> Umm.
[03:12] <jbailey> So should I look for that and queue it?
[03:13] <mjg59> Possibly. Is the modprobe you have there sufficiently good to deal with a modprobe.d?
[03:13] <mjg59> If so, just add something that pre-loads ehci-hcd on uhci-hcd loads
[03:13] <jbailey> Is ehci always present in uhci systems, or is that just cruft lying about in memory then?
[03:14] <mjg59> ehci is only present in USB 2 systems
[03:14] <jbailey> It's the regular system modprobe.  The one in busybox doesn't work on all of our archs.
[03:14] <jbailey> Will it just fail to load then?
[03:14] <mjg59> It may appear with either uhci-hcd or ehci-hcd
[03:14] <jbailey> Mm, no.
[03:14] <mjg59> Nah, it'll probably load and hang around
[03:14] <jbailey> It'll be just useless.
[03:14] <mjg59> Check the use count afterwards and unload it if it's 0?
[03:14] <jbailey> But I guess better than having all your USB2 devices pretending their 1.1
[03:14] <mjg59> Hm. No, that doesn't actually work
[03:15] <mjg59> jbailey: It's fine for devices that are plugged in after boot, but there's a small race there on boot
[03:15] <mjg59> It's actually biting me on resume at the moment - uhci-hcd tends to get loaded first, so devices end up wrongly bound
[03:15] <jbailey> Oh, hmm.
[03:15] <jbailey> Lemme chew on this, Angie's calling me.
[03:16] <jbailey> I'll try to have a solution for tomorrow for you.
[03:16] <mjg59> Ok - see you
[03:16] <mjg59> Rock
[03:21] <bur[n] er> anyone familiar with what would be prompting me for evolution usernames and passwords when I right click the gnome-panel and click properties??
[03:21] <tseng> daniels: so dude
[03:21] <bur[n] er> doh... thought I was in #ubuntu :\ sorry ;)
[03:22] <tseng> daniels: according to http://www.gnome.org/~lcolitti/gnome-startup/analysis/
[03:22] <tseng> daniels: having a font server configured but not available causes an extra 5 seconds in X start time
[03:22] <tseng> daniels: due to paging the server over and over
[03:22] <daniels> eheh, nice
[03:23] <tseng> any reason to have it in the default config?
[03:23] <daniels> xorg (6.8.2-66) breezy; urgency=low
[03:23] <daniels>   * Disable font server in dexconf for mad startup time victory.
[03:23] <daniels>  -- Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@ubuntu.com>  Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:25:05 +1000
[03:23] <tseng> oh
[03:23] <tseng> you are elite
[03:23] <tseng> and a day ahead of me
[03:24] <tseng> in more ways than one
[03:24] <bob2> TOO SLOW, tseng 
[03:24] <ajmitch> bob2: like you can talk :)
[03:24] <bob2> ajmitch: you guys only have an hour on us
[03:24] <ajmitch> 2
[04:24] <jdub> daniels: http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2005/09/msg00208.html
[04:26] <daniels> jdub: he's using the binary driver
[04:26] <daniels> jdub: so watch how little I care
[04:27] <jdub> not sure that's the most useful response
[04:27] <jdub> is the hoary binary driver known to not work very well on amd64?
[04:28] <daniels> it's known to have rendering issues, yes
[04:28] <daniels> so is the one from brezy, actually
[04:28] <daniels> and the one from warty did too
[04:28] <jdub> on amd64 specifically?
[04:28] <daniels> on all architectures
[04:29] <daniels> it's more a varies-by-card than varies-by-arch thing
[04:29] <jdub> so if i suggest that he try nv, that will work more reliably?
[04:37] <daniels> jdub: probably, but not guaranteed
[04:37] <daniels> jdub: some cards just have weird-shit flaws that need to be specifically worked around
[04:41] <lamont> elmo: postgis is being annoying
[04:41] <elmo> lamont: ?
[04:41] <lamont> repetitive give-back
[04:42] <lamont> E: Couldn't find package libpgjava
[04:42] <lamont> let me guess: libpgjava is multiverse?
[04:43] <elmo> yes
[04:43] <elmo> why has this suddenly come up
[04:43] <lamont> because I finally looked at p.u.c/~lamont/byDate/today.html
[04:44] <elmo> and why's it in main in sid
[04:45] <elmo> libpgjava's in main in sid, I'm going to promote it to universe
[04:48] <lamont> elmo: danke
[04:48] <elmo> lamont: can you have a look at where dict-gcide went?
[04:50] <elmo> sigh, we have uninstallables again
[04:50] <wasabi_> *sigh* evms stil nicely crashes.
[04:50] <wasabi_> and lvm is still weirded out
[04:53] <wasabi_> Watch out.
[04:53] <wasabi_> If I use EVMS to add a new pv to a LVM...
[04:53] <wasabi_> it seg faults.
[04:53] <wasabi_> and leaves teh vg in a inconsistant state.
[04:53] <wasabi_> Now I'm stuck with 500GBs of broken data, again.
[04:58] <jsgotangco> j #ubuntu-motu
[05:00] <jsgotangco> morning guys
[05:01] <ajmitch> hi
[05:05] <Burgundavia> jdub, any chance I can get my hands on one of the MS OEM packs? I am interested in helping build something similar for Ubuntu
[05:05] <Burgundavia> jdub, nev mind, jsgotangco has got one
[05:06] <jsgotangco> i actually got inquiries during LWC about it
[05:06] <gabaug> is there a tutorial on how to take an existing ubuntu pkg and upgrade it (for one's own purpose) to a newer version of the software it's packaging?
[05:07] <Burgundavia> gabaug, best to ask taht in #ubuntu-motuy
[05:07] <Burgundavia> gabaug, best to ask taht in #ubuntu-motu
[05:08] <bob2> hint: uupdate and careful testing
[05:22] <lamont> elmo: old .upload file... most strange
[05:22] <lamont> dict-gcide inbound
[05:22] <elmo> grr
[05:23] <mdz> jbailey: does initramfs-tools call depmod after each module it adds?
[05:23] <mdz> no wonder it takes ages
[05:25] <jdub> eek!
[05:25] <jdub> mdz: you using evms at home?
[05:25] <mdz> jdub: yes
[05:27] <jdub> mdz: for a basic raid1 root system, would you recommend segments for /boot, / (md region) and swap?
[05:27] <jdub> the evms faq is all about "this answer coming soon!"
[05:28] <mdz> jdub: straight segments, as opposed to volumes?
[05:28] <mdz> I make everything volumes, myself
[05:29] <jbailey> mdz: Eh?  No, it should do it once at the beginning of load_modules.
[05:29] <mdz> jbailey: it also does it in every manual_add_modules
[05:29] <jdub> mdz: hrm, so i don't need to make a /boot segment to boot from?
[05:29] <mdz> I am upgrading my router to breezy (i486) and was watching depmod run again and again in top
[05:30] <jdub> or does that just not matter given our initramfs?
[05:30] <mdz> jdub: as long as grub can load the initramfs, everything from there should be cake
[05:30] <mdz> so grub needs to understand /boot
[05:30] <mdz> beyond that, go nuts
[05:30] <jdub> mmm, so this is why i am thinking that i need a boring /boot partition :-)
[05:30] <jbailey> Oh hmm.
[05:31] <jbailey> And nothing appears to use the result of that depmod either...
[05:31] <mdz> jdub: surely grub can grok raid1
[05:31] <jdub> hmm, but i can make swap a volume
[05:32] <mdz> and root
[05:32] <jbailey> mdz: I'll try removing that depmod for my tests tomorrow morning.  That would be a lovely svings. =)
[05:32] <jdub> grub still doesn't do raid1
[05:32] <Lathiat> or is it lilo *thinks*
[05:33] <Lathiat> no reason it shouldnt do raid1 ?
[05:33] <jbailey> lilo definetly does.
[05:33] <Lathiat> its not like its hard
[05:33] <jdub> lilo does, with grub you have to fake it (ie. you're not booting from raid1, you're booting from one of the mirrors)
[05:33] <jbailey> I think it's just an extra MD header, so it ought to be fine on /boot raid1.
[05:33] <jbailey> grub-install I don't think will automatically install itself on two drives.
[05:34] <mdz> jdub: that's better than having a non-redundant /boot
[05:34] <jdub> yes
[05:34] <mdz> you can install grub twice, once to each disk, each pointing to the corresponding /boot
[05:35] <daniels> fabbione: also, I guess that fglrx-control and xorg-driver-fglrx now conflict, unless you checked and fixed that one.
[05:45] <jdub> argh!
[05:45] <jdub> segfault :-)
[05:52] <mdz> jbailey: why does initramfs-tools depend on lvm2 and mdadm, rather than just using them if present?
[05:54] <jdub> hrm, seems to be surviving better when i save as i go
[05:59] <jdub> daniels: !!! (re xfs in fontpaths)
[06:00] <daniels> jdub: good or bad?
[06:00] <jdub> good
[06:00] <daniels> yes
[06:00] <daniels> although we still have a big hardware delay
[06:00] <daniels> i know this because my config only had one font path in it, which was local
[06:01] <daniels> and there was only one actual font installed in that path
[06:01] <jdub> heh, fixed?
[06:01] <daniels> fixed, with cursor aliased to same
[06:02] <daniels> i'd kill for proper modesetting on i8xx
[06:02] <daniels> but alas, it is not to be
[06:06] <cogumbreiro> hmmm, guys I've just released a new serpentine version. I want to mark the bugs in ubuntu, do I leave them open and add a comment, mark them with UPSTREAM or mark them with PENDINGUPLOAD?
[06:07] <daniels> just comment on the bugs that they're fixed in the new upstream version, don't touch the status
[06:09] <cogumbreiro> daniels: kk
[06:11] <fabbione> morning
[06:11] <fabbione> daniels: sorry i have only one "also, I guess that fglrx-control and xorg-driver-fglrx now conflict, unless you checked and fixed that one."
[06:11] <fabbione> i don't have anything else in the backlog
[06:13] <daniels> fabbione: that was it
[06:15] <fabbione> daniels: no i didn't check.. why should they conflict?
[06:16] <daniels> at a guess, fireglcontrol being in both
[06:18] <fabbione> daniels: hmmm crap ok
[06:19] <fabbione> xorg-driver-fglrx:
[06:19] <fabbione>   Depends: lib32gcc1 (>=1:4.0.1) but 4.0.1-4ubuntu6 will be installed
[06:19] <fabbione> MEEEE
[06:19] <daniels> just have a look with dpkg-deb
[06:20] <fabbione> daniels: yeah i am looking at it
[06:20] <fabbione> that's on amd64 
[06:21] <fabbione> i think we just hitted that shlib thing Mithrandir was mentioning
[06:22] <jdub> jbailey: still about?
[06:31] <jdub> jbailey: n/m
[06:32] <fabbione> daniels: do we still need to ship fglrx-control at all?
[06:33] <daniels> fabbione: yes
[06:33] <fabbione> why?
[06:33] <fabbione> the 2 binaries land even in different directory
[06:34] <fabbione> and one is called fireglcontrol and the other fireglcontrolpanle
[06:34] <fabbione> there is no overlap that i can see
[06:39] <daniels> okay
[06:40] <fabbione> daniels: should i also do the /usr/X11R6/bin -> /usr/bin transition for fglrx-control?
[06:40] <fabbione> or are you happy as it is?
[06:41] <daniels> should be transitioned, yes
[06:41] <fabbione> ok
[06:48] <fabbione> daniels: how would you feel if we update the nvidia driver to 7676 ?
[06:48] <fabbione> daniels: did you hear any horror story about it?
[06:50] <daniels> i haven't heard anything good or bad, but 7667 seems to be pretty stable, so I didn't bother making the update myself
[06:50] <daniels> only reason I updated to 8.16 was because .14 was totally stuffed on laptops, DVI, and newer chips
[06:50] <fabbione> make sense
[06:56] <cogumbreiro> gnight all
[07:10] <fabbione> daniels: #15533 is either gcc-4.0 or dhshlibs faults
[07:10] <fabbione> because all libgcc* is epoched.. lib32gcc1 isn't
[07:11] <fabbione> hey mdz
[07:12] <mdz> hi
[07:12] <mdz> just finished upgrading my router to breezy
[07:14] <fabbione> mdz: i just ordered the new pieces for my workstation. I will be back 200% during this week.. hopefully...
[07:14] <fabbione> working in this small env is sort of limiting
[07:14] <mdz> fabbione: what happened to your workstation?
[07:15] <fabbione> burned
[07:15] <mdz> by fire?
[07:16] <fabbione> no, my best guess is that the temperature sensor on the chipset is deteriorated into junk, since the machine randomically shutdown with no predicatble enviroment
[07:16] <fabbione> and at random times
[07:16] <fabbione> mdz: the positive side is that i will get an amd64
[07:17] <fabbione> and hopefully within the next 2 weeks a ppc
[07:17] <fabbione> so i can cover all 3 arches :)
[07:17] <mdz> fun
[07:18] <fabbione> mdz: it took me 3 days of hw testing.. it's not fun.. trust me
[07:18] <fabbione> specially when you have almost a tera of data connected to it
[07:19] <bob2> hah
[07:19] <bob2> you have entirely too much porn
[07:19] <fabbione> bob2: not really..
[07:19] <fabbione> i moved all of it on DVD :P
[07:20] <fabbione> humpf...
[07:27] <fabbione> GO GCC-4.0! it's your BIRTHDAY
[07:27] <fabbione> daniels: #15533 -> gcc4.0
[07:27] <fabbione> for once i was sure i didn't do anything dumb
[07:31] <doko> morning
[07:33] <fabbione> doko: fix #15533. kthxbye
[08:03] <sabdfl> mornign all
[08:03] <sabdfl> doko: could you fix gcc to say (Ubuntu  4.0.1-4ubuntu6) please? rather than (Debian...)
[08:04] <doko> which one, gcc-4.0, or all (gcc-4.0, gcc-3.4, gcc-3.3)?
[08:05] <doko> sabdfl: ^^^
[08:05] <sabdfl> all of them please
[08:06] <doko> sabdfl: fixing all of these for breezy will kill fabbione's buildd for a week
[08:06] <sabdfl> best it be this week, then
[08:07] <sabdfl> please also fix similar issues in other packages
[08:07] <sabdfl> no gratuitous branding, or if branding is needed, Ubuntu
[08:08] <doko> yes, upstream asks for this kind of branding for patched versions
[08:08] <pitti> Hi
[08:09] <sabdfl> doko: that's fine - but then it should read Ubntu
[08:09] <sabdfl> erk
[08:10] <sabdfl> Ubuntu
[08:10] <sabdfl> otherwise, keep it neutral - no distro name
[08:10] <fabbione> doko: don't worry about sparc...
[08:10] <fabbione> doko: it will manage..
[08:10] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[08:11] <sabdfl> mornin fabbione
[08:11] <fabbione> doko: just do it right away please
[08:14] <daniels> mdz: permission to upload xresprobe with the patch in debian #328551?
[08:14] <daniels> mdz: it's correct, and just gave me one of those 'oh, shit' moments
[08:16] <Kaloz> re
[08:16] <Kaloz> fabbione: will you have an intaller for breezy? :)
[08:18] <fabbione> Kaloz: i truely hope so
[08:19] <fabbione> there is a major issue with klibc atm
[08:19] <fabbione> but the hoary installer and upgrade to breezy should work
[08:19] <fabbione> module one line in a config file to use initrd instead of initramfs
[08:19] <Kaloz> i hope finaly i get time to do that nubuntu thing for drake at last
[08:20] <Kaloz> okay, thanks :)
[08:20] <fabbione> Kaloz: no problem.
[08:21] <doko> fabbione, lamon, infinity: please skip gcc-4.0_4.0.1-4ubuntu7, just proceed with gcc-4.0_4.0.1-4ubuntu8
[08:21] <doko> lamont: ^^^
[08:21] <jdub> daniels: someone else provided a helpful answer to that question i pointed to earlier - check out the whole thread
[08:21] <jdub> http://lists.slug.org.au/archives/slug/2005/09/msg00208.html
[08:22] <fabbione> doko: ok thanks
[08:22] <daniels> doko: it doesn't matter for our buildds
[08:22] <fabbione> doko: did you also fix that lib32gcc1 problem?
[08:22] <sabdfl> fabbione: can we detect that one-liner and make it automatic?
[08:22] <fabbione> sabdfl: for sparc?
[08:22] <sabdfl> for everybody
[08:22] <daniels> jdub: nvagp -> completely the wrong solution
[08:22] <daniels> sabdfl: if you're talking about the nvidia thing jdub posted, no
[08:23] <daniels> sabdfl: it sort of works for a random subset of people, breaks horribly for others (including previously working systems)
[08:23] <fabbione> sabdfl: sorry.. i am lost.. what one liner are you referring to?
[08:24] <sabdfl> daniels: no, talkin about the issue where hoary systems don't upgrade properly because of a one-liner in some config file, choice wemade ages ago that's biting now
[08:24] <jdub> daniels: given the mess we're already in, surely "working" is better than "correct", right?
[08:24] <daniels> sabdfl: oh, okay, sorry
[08:24] <fabbione> sabdfl: there is no need for other arches. it's a sparc specific problem that i hope to address before release
[08:24] <daniels> jdub: 'working for one dude who complained on slug and possibly breaking it in indeterminate ways for everyone else who has it working' vs 'correct, supported by upstream, may break for one person on the slug lists'
[08:25] <jdub> daniels: well, two. plus, it's been grumbled about elsewhere.
[08:25] <fabbione> sabdfl: basically klibc that lands in the initramfs builds only in 64bit mode but busybox used to execute the stuff is 32bit. the mistmatch makes baby jesus cry
[08:25] <daniels> jdub: in general, no.  this close to release, absolutely not.  i mean, fabbione's the l-r-m maintainer these days, so you can convince him if you like it, but no way would I ever do that.
[08:25] <sabdfl> daniels: pot. kettle. black.
[08:26] <daniels> sabdfl: hey, I'm happy taking risks on things I can evaluate and measure.  this I can't.
[08:26] <sivang> Morning all!
[08:27] <Burgundavia> daniels, I see this bug https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14071 ONLY when not connected to a monitor/projector. Is it the same issue. i915 graphics
[08:28] <doko> fabbione: -> changes
[08:29] <daniels> Burgundavia: not with i915, no
[08:29] <Burgundavia> daniels, should I file a new bug about that?
[08:29] <fabbione> doko: thanks
[08:30] <fabbione> so the shlib is the same as before..
[08:30] <sivang> daniels:discussing specific l-r-m bug?
[08:30] <fabbione> = i don't need to rebuild the package
[08:30] <daniels> sivang: yeah
[08:30] <daniels> Burgundavia: not really, we already have a 'should know how to program modes properly' bug, but short of intel becoming slightly less schitzophrenic, there's not much we can do about it, as that's your video BIOS doing the mode switching for us.
[08:31] <Burgundavia> daniels, ok
[08:31] <sivang> daniels: what's the # ?
[08:31] <daniels> sivang: not on bz
[08:31] <doko> fabbion: yes
[08:31] <fabbione> doko: oky
[08:32] <fabbione> hmmm one of the last security patches did break the kernel on sparc... FUN...
[08:32] <fabbione> sabdfl: did you test the new fglrx driver?
[08:33] <fabbione> sabdfl: and how is it going with the new kernel?
[08:33] <sabdfl> fabbione: perfect
[08:33] <sabdfl> well, not the new kernel
[08:33] <sabdfl> i'm still running the one you gave me
[08:34] <sabdfl> and fglrx justworked perfectly
[08:34] <fabbione> sabdfl: they have the same fixes...
[08:34] <fabbione> sabdfl: ok great
[08:34] <sabdfl> and survived a long night of gl screensavers
[08:34] <sabdfl> so far, so great
[08:34] <fabbione> the kernel i gave to you was the one in our repo
[08:34] <fabbione> i only builded it for you
[08:34] <sabdfl> now i'm going to run baz merge all day on it, at the same time as the screensavers
[08:34] <fabbione> kudos and such should go to ben ;)
[08:34] <sabdfl> then we will know
[08:34] <sabdfl> thanks BenC
[08:35] <fabbione> ok i will close the fglrx bug than..
[08:35] <fabbione> 3 success reports are enough :)
[08:38] <tepsipakki> are apu-{server|client} packages available somewhere?
[08:39] <tepsipakki> apu = auto-pkg-update
[08:39] <tepsipakki> i'd like to try them
[08:41] <sivang> fabbione:will this be suported out of the box without manual intervention? or already is? (re:fglrx)
[08:41] <fabbione> sivang: i am not following you..
[08:42] <fabbione> what should be supported out of the box?
[08:43] <sivang> fabbione: sorry, my bad, never mind
[08:45] <fabbione> uh ok :)
[08:46] <lifeless> fabbione: are there known issues with hibernate ?
[08:46] <fabbione> lifeless: mostlikely..
[08:46] <fabbione> lifeless: just check bugzilla for component linux
[08:46] <lifeless> ok
[09:10] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:10] <pitti> Hi fabbione, just debugging hibernation
[09:10] <fabbione> pitti: did you notice that the last pmount is FTBFS?
[09:10] <pitti> fabbione: oops, no? will look at it, thanks
[09:10] <fabbione> no problem
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: can you please make me the owner of lrm & co on bugzilla?
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[09:17] <pitti> Kamion: can you do syncs from Debian?
[09:40] <pitti> mvo: did you see liveless' scary upgrade report? any idea how to mitigate this?
[09:41] <mvo> pitti: the one that "auto-upgrade" from the cd wanted to remove so many packages?
[09:41] <ivoks> daniels: ping
[09:42] <pitti> mvo: yes
[09:42] <pitti> mvo: that might be because the CD contained a new libc or whatever, and the other installed programs had no new version on the CD?
[09:42] <fabbione> huuhuh
[09:42] <fabbione> now..
[09:43] <pitti> fabbione: BOOOOH!
[09:43] <mvo> pitti: yes
[09:43] <pitti> mvo: however, ISTR that I did CD-based upgrades, they always went fine
[09:43] <fabbione> mdz: i did track down the hplip failure on sparc. that check fails because my chroots are clean.
[09:43] <mvo> pitti: it can only be solved by adding the needed entries in the sources.list
[09:43] <fabbione> mdz: the check is wrong anyhow...
[09:43] <daniels> ivoks: pong-ish
[09:43] <mvo> pitti: I guess you upgraded a system with little additional packages? i.e. a test-system?
[09:45] <ivoks> daniels: i wanted to ask you will you include that hr symbols in breezy that i posted on #14667
[09:46] <daniels> ivoks: if it's just adding the alt variant, then yeah
[09:47] <ivoks> daniels: yes, nothing else
[09:47] <daniels> ivoks: 'kay
[09:47] <ivoks> daniels: thanks
[09:47] <daniels> np
[09:49] <jdub> jbailey, mdz: ping (re: evms root and initramfs)
[09:51] <pitti> mvo: actually I upgraded my laptop (productive system)
[09:52] <pitti> mvo: well, however, I upgraded it every week or so with the newest CDs
[09:52] <mvo> pitti: interessting. I don't have a non-test/non-breezy system at hand but 416 libs is really scary. I'll followup asking for details
[09:52] <Mithrandir> how long are we going to wait for feedback from bug reporters?  Currently, we have bugs which are a few months old with no response which means that it's impossible to triage.
[09:54] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: close them if they are more than 3 months with no response
[09:54] <sabdfl> unless they are obviously confirmed and understood
[09:57] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: ok.   What resolution should be used?
[09:57] <jdub> INVALID?
[09:58] <Mithrandir> it might not be invalid, though
[09:58] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: we should have something specifically for this case, shouldn't we
[09:58] <Mithrandir> I would think so, yes.
[09:58] <jdub> mmm, and it might not be NOTABUG
[09:58] <Mithrandir> jdub: I'm not sure what the difference between invalid and notabug is, really.
[09:58] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: nosubmitterresponse or something like that.
[09:59] <Mithrandir> submitterfallenoffplanetearth
[09:59] <sabdfl> GONESILENT
[09:59] <sabdfl> hey!
[09:59] <Mithrandir> ;-)
[09:59] <ivoks> :)
[09:59] <Mithrandir> we can change that code once we get our first bug from the ISS.
[09:59] <fabbione> hey Mithrandir 
[09:59] <fabbione> lol
[09:59] <jdub> gnome uses INCOMPLETE for this
[10:00] <Mithrandir> jdub: incomplete or gonesilent sounds good to me
[10:01] <ivoks> gnoesilent is much cooler :)
[10:01] <ivoks> gone, even :)
[10:02] <doko> Mithrandir: just s/from/to/ :)
[10:02] <doko> Mithrandir: just s/off/to/ :)
[10:04] <Mithrandir> doko :-)
[10:12] <doko> Mithrandir: please look at ubuntu-users (Re: Openoffice fails to start). I thought that was fixed in l-r-m, or this a problem in an older l-r-m as well?
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: you need to give me an URL; u-u is too busy, so I'm not on the list
[10:18] <doko> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-September/048942.html, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-September/049040.html
[10:21] <Mithrandir> doko: those seems to be two different issues?  The ia32-libs thing is something I don't know what's up with; it might be that daniels or fabio broke it with the last upload
[10:21] <Mithrandir> doko: I'm doing ooo2-amd64 and ooo-amd64 now, I can look at lrm afterwards
[10:22] <doko> Mithrandir: ok, just did remember that you did a similiar fix
[10:23] <Mithrandir> doko: yes, I did, and it might have gotten lost.
[10:24] <Kamion> pitti: technically yes, but I don't normally (indeed, I never have)
[10:28] <doko> hmm, what are our suggested minimum hardware requirements for breezy? do we have these documented somewhere?
[10:39] <pef> hi
[10:40] <j^> why are removable ide media in group plugdev but /dev/raw1394(used to capture DV, but can also be used to access firewire disks) in group disk?
[10:43] <pitti> j^: because nobody complained about this so far
[10:44] <pitti> j^: however, firewire disks should have a separate /dev/sd* node
[10:44] <j^> pitti i did and was told its a security risk
[10:44] <j^> now usb disk are a security risk too
[10:44] <pitti> hm?
[10:44] <j^> pitti i need raw1394 for my DV camcorder
[10:44] <j^> and i do not like running kino as root
[10:44] <j^> right now the default user can not use kino
[10:45] <j^> one has to add it to disk or change permissions of raw1394
[10:45] <pitti> j^: please never add an user to disk
[10:45] <j^> pitti please change the raw1394 to plugdev 
[10:45] <pitti> j^: instead, in /etc/udev/permissions.rules, change KERNEL=="raw1394",      GROUP="disk"   to plugdev
[10:46] <pitti> j^: however, I'm still confused why you want the raw device
[10:46] <pitti> j^: why not use /dev/video1394 /dev/dv1394?
[10:46] <j^> pitti because raw1394 is the most stable and current way to use DV
[10:47] <pitti> j^: and video and dv are not working?
[10:47] <j^> gstreamer, kino and dvgrab all use raw1394
[10:47] <pitti> j^: what are the current permissions of raw1394, are they ok? i. e. readable and writable for group?
[10:48] <j^> kino also has legacy support for /dev/video1394
[10:49] <j^> pitti right now /dev/raw1394 is crw-rw----
[10:49] <j^> root disk
[10:50] <pitti> j^: ok, that's fine
[10:50] <j^> but since raw1394 is used to access iso dv streams on the ieee1394 bus one needs read/write access
[10:50] <j^> pitti group disk is not fine
[10:50] <pitti> j^: hm, why is video1394 "legacy"?
[10:50] <pitti> j^: I mean the permissions are fine, not the group
[10:51] <j^> pitti yeah permissions are ok
[10:51] <j^> let me check if i can fine the statement on linux1394.org...
[10:52] <j^> pitti anyway gstreamer only supports raw1394 afaik
[10:54] <pitti> grumpf
[10:55] <pitti> that's dumb - the purpose of video1394 is to use it...
[10:55] <seb128> where is dholbach?
[10:58] <j^> pitti if linux1394.org would be up i could point you to the statement that its should not be used
[11:00] <pitti> j^: ok, please file a bug for now; if you have some documenting URLs, they should be added to the bug
[11:00] <pitti> j^: but right, we shuold get this working
[11:01] <pitti> j^: the only problem is that this would allow any plugdev user to circumvent device permissions on storage devices, that's why I don't like it
[11:01] <seb128> I hate printing
[11:01] <seb128> that never works
[11:02] <Lathiat> daniels: mad startup time victory?
[11:02] <j^> pitti but it was just changed that this is possible for plugable ide devices
[11:03] <daniels> Lathiat: ~5sec
[11:04] <Lathiat> daniels: wow
[11:10] <pitti> j^: nope, plugdev users can only read the raw device, not write it
[11:12] <j^> pitti which would be a start for raw1394 too
[11:13] <pitti> j^: so read-only access would be enough?
[11:13] <pitti> somehow I doubt that, you need to send commands etc.
[11:13] <mvo> is it known that openoffice1 on amd64 does not run (without changing ~/.sversionrc)?
[11:13] <j^> pitti never tried, but since you can controll the camcorder you send commands i guess
[11:14] <hunger> fabbione: Are you sure the /dev/input/mice issue is udev-related?
[11:14] <hunger> fabbione: I see it almost always when using the ubuntu 2.6.12 kernel and never when using a custom 2.6.13.
[11:14] <hunger> j^: NM is not that bad on a one-user laptop:-)
[11:15] <seb128> k, who broke cups
[11:15] <j^> hunger you have a two-user laptop? do you have a pic of two users using one latop at a time?
[11:15] <pitti> seb128: what breaks exactly?
[11:15] <fabbione> hunger: i am pretty sure...
[11:15] <hunger> j^: Well, a laptop that is only ever used by one admin-kind of person (aka. me;-)
[11:15] <mdke> Kamion, is there any more information you need on #15513, I'm going to try to partition manually today
[11:16] <fabbione> because i workaround it here modprobing the mouse before hotplug
[11:16] <bob2> is NM going to be fixed for breezy?
[11:16] <hunger> fabbione: I am just wondering... The problem went away when I upgraded to my custom 2.6.13 kernel... and now that I am using the kernel you put up on your site I have it again.
[11:17] <Lathiat> j^: i saw a nifty laptop with two screens and one woudl commonly become n onscreen keyboard (obviously it was touch sensitive)
[11:17] <j^> bob2 http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ fixes NM for breezy
[11:17] <bob2> j^: yeah, I know, but will it actually be in breezy?
[11:18] <hunger> bob2: It works well.
[11:18] <Lathiat> j^++
[11:18] <bob2> yes, I'm using it
[11:18] <bob2> but personal site != being in breezy
[11:18] <hunger> bob2: From what I read several people were trying to upload it.
[11:18] <bob2> surely just one person could test it and then upload it?
[11:19] <Nafallo> bob2: did
[11:19] <bob2> Nafallo: you've uploaded j^'s fixed version? great!
[11:19] <Kamion> mdke: don't think so, thanks
[11:20] <mdke> cool
[11:20] <Nafallo> bob2, j^: accepted :-)
[11:20] <Lathiat> Nafallo: oh, rock!
[11:21] <elbi> j^: any difference between nm currently in breezy and your packages?
[11:21] <Lathiat> elbi: yeh, "it actually works" ;)
[11:21] <opi_> /m nickserv identify amiga.com.pl
[11:21] <opi_> sfck
[11:21] <Kamion> Nafallo: just a note, when uploading something that's multiple versions newer than the current version in the archive, use the -v switch to dpkg-buildpackage (or debuild) to make sure that breezy-changes gets a full record of the changes
[11:22] <Kamion> so 'debuild -S -v0.4.1+cvs20050618-3build1'
[11:23] <elbi> Lathiat: maybe i should give his packages a try then :)
[11:23] <Kamion> elbi: wait ~20 minutes, upgrade breezy
[11:23] <Nafallo> Kamion: ah, thanx :-)
[11:24] <Kamion> elbi: (er, no, sorry, ~50 minutes to allow time for binaries to build)
[11:24] <Lathiat> fabbione: ping
[11:24] <fabbione> Lathiat: pong
[11:24] <Lathiat> fabbione: did that sata change go into the new kernel?
[11:25] <fabbione> yes
[11:25] <Lathiat> ok cool
[11:25] <fabbione> it's the first entry in the changelog
[11:25] <elbi> Kamion: oh, just wondering why bind9 is a dependency
[11:25] <fabbione> iirc
[11:25] <Lathiat> it is? hrm maybe i skipped over it ;p
[11:26] <elbi> Kamion: i'm using a danish mirror, maybe we should say a couple of hours :)
[11:26] <bob2> one day I'd like to invent a pastry treat called the "australian"
[11:26] <Lathiat> hmm i wouldnt think so but nevertheless if its in im happy
[11:26] <mdz> fabbione: you now have editcomponents privileges
[11:27] <Lathiat> bob2: does it involve mince and tomato sauce ?
[11:27] <mdz> fabbione: set up the component ownership as you wish
[11:27] <bob2> Lathiat: and quokkas
[11:27] <Lathiat> bob2: heh
[11:27] <seb128> mdz: is that ok to update to the new serpentine version?
[11:27] <mdz> daniels: #328551 OK
[11:28] <seb128> mdz: the new version can be translated which is a big advantage over the current one
[11:28] <mdz> seb128: how do you feel about it?
[11:28] <Kamion> elbi: if it's da.archive.ubuntu.com, that's the same as archive.ubuntu.com
[11:29] <elbi> Kamion: oh, i didn't know the mail resp. was located in denmark :)
[11:29] <Kamion> it's not
[11:29] <elbi> err, mail = main
[11:29] <seb128> mdz: I'll play with it before, but I've spoken with upstream and that should ok. The new version is mainly bugs fixing
[11:30] <Kamion> *.archive.ubuntu.com == archive.ubuntu.com unless we have (and have got round to recording) a better option
[11:30] <elbi> Kamion: why not point the record to one of the danish mirrors?
[11:31] <mdz> seb128: ok, let's do it
[11:31] <bob2> what's jdong's nick?
[11:31] <Nafallo> bob2: jdong
[11:31] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[11:32] <sabdfl> seb128: i will make a list of screensavers, is it ok to get that to you around Sep 25?
[11:32] <elbi> j^: why is bind9 a nm dependency?
[11:32] <sabdfl> so we can split them into -data and -extra-data
[11:32] <bob2> elbi: because it runs a local caching nameserver
[11:33] <elbi> bob2: yes, but why make such thing a dependency?
[11:33] <\sh> morning gentlemen *yawn*
[11:33] <j^> elbi NM provides a local dns resolver that can use diffrent dns servers for diffrent names, provided by vpn connections, bind9 provides this
[11:33] <bob2> elbi: because it needs it? lots of thigns have broken nameserver caching, e.g. mozilla
[11:33] <Mithrandir> we should just fix libc instead.
[11:33] <Kamion> elbi: mail james.troup@ubuntu.com
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: ok to merge mkvmlinuz 14 for #15570? I've eyeballed the patch, looks fine
[11:34] <j^> Mithrandir you can provide diffrent ns per namespace in libc?
[11:35] <bob2> Nafallo: who are bug reports about backport things supposed to go to?
[11:35] <Mithrandir> j^: most apps just use the resolver functions in libc, and libc should recheck resolv.conf
[11:35] <elbi> j^: oh, neat
[11:35] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[11:35] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: thats a separate issue
[11:35] <bob2> Nafallo: e.g. the fact you're breaching the license of various bits of software?
[11:35] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: j^ is talking about say, sending *.murdoch.edu.au to 134.115.1.1 and * to 45.11.23.1
[11:35] <Nafallo> bob2: dunno. ask Mez.
[11:36] <elbi> Kamion: ok, let me ask the mirror host first, thanks
[11:36] <Nafallo> bob2: or rather... what backports are we talking about?
[11:36] <bob2> http://acm.cs.umn.edu/ubp/hoary-extras/restricted/binary-i386/, for reference
[11:36] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: uh, that's crack. :-)
[11:36] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: no it snot
[11:36] <bob2> Nafallo: hoary-extras contains all sorts of stuff you do not have permission to distribute
[11:36] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: it makes perfect sense on vpns and things
[11:36] <bob2> Nafallo: e.g. realplayer, java, acrobat
[11:36] <Nafallo> bob2: jdong I guess. that's non-official stuff.
[11:36] <crispin> mjg59: bug 12498; that was uploaded wasn't it ? (it is still marked as PENDINGUPLOAD)
[11:36] <Nafallo> bob2: don't forget w32codecs :-P
[11:37] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: then just ask your VPN NS for everything, or you could fix libc to handle that case too, yes.
[11:37] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: vpn ns isnt always usefull in that regard, and "fix
[11:37] <Lathiat> ing it is a bit tricky
[11:37] <bob2> Nafallo: that's whack
[11:38] <Lathiat> altho i agree that using bind9 is a bit crack in its own right
[11:38] <bob2> Nafallo: and really really unfair on your mirrors
[11:38] <\sh> bob2: mez can help u as well
[11:38] <bob2> \sh: he's not here
[11:38] <Nafallo> bob2: sure, but like I said. that's not archive.ubuntu.com's hoary-backports.
[11:38] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: I think it's wrong to bring in a nameserver because you want your resolver to behave differently.
[11:38] <bob2> and the last time I brought this up, apparently you all forgot you were breaking the law
[11:38] <bob2> Nafallo: right
[11:39] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: it's an instance of the all-too-common "let's another layer of indirection instead of fixing the problem".
[11:39] <bob2> Nafallo: I can tell that because elmo hasn't dug a shallow grave for you yet ;)
[11:39] <\sh> bob2: Mez is the Backports SPoC
[11:39] <Nafallo> bob2: well... it's not _us_ that have that repo.
[11:39] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: its for 2 reasons, both make sense, not necesarily the best solution, and if we start modifying the /etc/resolv.conf format it could break apps etc, but yes your right
[11:39] <seb128_> sorry, dsl IP change
[11:39] <seb128_> sabdfl: you want to split them to 2 packages, the default ones and the extra ones?
[11:39] <seb128_> mdz: any opinion on #14763 ? The new comment state that the issue is due to boot order
[11:39] <Nafallo> bob2: why would he do that for me? I have never even touched a backport of any kind.
[11:40] <bob2> Nafallo: oh, ok
[11:40] <bob2> Nafallo: sorry, my mistake :)
[11:41] <sabdfl> seb128_: yes please
[11:41] <sabdfl> and only install the default ones
[11:41] <sabdfl> i think that's like bug #5 in bugzilla, or something
[11:41] <seb128_> sabdfl: k, no problem, just let me know the list of defaults when you have it
[11:42] <sabdfl> i'll work through them all again on the plane tonight and make the list
[11:42] <seb128_> k
[11:42] <sabdfl> there are some nice new ones
[11:42] <sabdfl> which packages should i install to make sure i have ALL the hacks, to select from?
[11:42] <mdz> seb128_: not entirely surprising; most of the world starts at S20
[11:44] <mdz> seb128_: where does slapd start?
[11:44] <mdz> seb128_: his comment about usplash doesn't make much sense; hotplug runs _way_ before that
[11:45] <sabdfl> mdz: breezy is looking awesome.
[11:45] <sabdfl> i rebooted last night and thought "usplash is stunning"
[11:46] <sabdfl> kudos to the artwork guy behind that one
[11:46] <mdz> usplash is teh rox
[11:46] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: we should add a thin border to the progress bar, though
[11:46] <Mithrandir> so you can see how far it'll progress
[11:46] <Lathiat> and if those fonts could be a little less ugly..
[11:46] <sabdfl> +1 Mithrandir
[11:46] <Lathiat> perhaps not bold as it appears to be
[11:46] <mdz> sabdfl: artwork came via mjg59 from "someone who can draw"
[11:46] <sabdfl> can we make the fonts disappear unless you press a key?
[11:47] <seb128_> mdz: S19slapd
[11:47] <sabdfl> mjg59: please send thanks, praise, & kisses if appropriate
[11:47] <mdz> sabdfl: hide the progress messages? yes, but as to whether it's a good idea...
[11:47] <sabdfl> pressing a key makes them appear?
[11:47] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[11:47] <mdz> usplash is currently entirely non-interactive
[11:47] <fabbione> sabdfl: messages are good...
[11:47] <mdz> and we like it that way, for the sake of simplicity
[11:47] <sabdfl> ok
[11:47] <fabbione> sabdfl: can we keep them at least for breezy?
[11:48] <pitti> mdz: it just got into my mind that we never dropped mozilla from supported, although we agreed on it. Can I unseed it?
[11:48] <sabdfl> fabbione: sure, i've already shelved the battle plans ;-)
[11:48] <mdz> pitti: yes
[11:48] <fabbione> sabdfl: :)
[11:49] <mdz> fabbione: is there an upstream kernel release which is known to build correctly with gcc 4.x?
[11:49] <seb128_> fabbione: the inotify bug is plain inotify issue
[11:50] <jdub> Mithrandir, sabdfl: yes, there is a progress bar border on its way
[11:51] <jdub> sabdfl: i'll pass on your regards to cliff
[11:51] <Mithrandir> jdub: it's a < 10 line patch to usplash.
[11:51] <sabdfl> jdub: warmest regards?
[11:51] <jdub> Mithrandir: wanted to do it in the image
[11:51] <Mithrandir> jdub: why?
[11:52] <mdz> jdub: you saying cliff did the new usplash artwork?  he didn't mention it...
[11:52] <jdub> Mithrandir: to make it prettier (softer, rounded corners)
[11:52] <jdub> mdz: yes, and we only took about three revisions
[11:53] <mdz> jdub: it's not really in line with the desktop artwork...the current stuff anyway
[11:53] <mdz> jdub: he wishes he had more time with us, too
[11:54] <jdub> mdz: that's intentional, given the black background preference
[11:54] <sabdfl> i think usplash fits in nicely
[11:54] <sabdfl> it has the warm, woody / human colours
[11:54] <fabbione> mdz: the tetex-* stuff has been cleared
[11:54] <jdub> kamion's switching isolinux to the same image
[11:54] <mdz> jdub: it's already done
[11:54] <fabbione> mdz: just let me know if you have any objections with my last comment
[11:54] <jdub> brill
[11:55] <sabdfl> is there a daily livecd i can burn and test?
[11:55] <mdz> fabbione: iirc your last comment said everything was OK
[11:55] <mdz> sabdfl: of course
[11:55] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[11:55] <sabdfl> thanks Mithrandir
[11:55] <fabbione> mdz: yes, in theory we should merge the changes into our package, but that's an insane amount of work
[11:56] <mdz> fabbione: if the copyright is OK, merging the changes is secondary
[11:56] <jdub> atm, cliff is doing a splash and background (done a few revisions of background, still needs work)
[11:56] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[11:56] <sabdfl> mdz: should we use the 686 kernels for the livecd?
[11:56] <mdz> sabdfl: do we want to make the livecd useless for <686?
[11:56] <sabdfl> is it useful for < 686 right now?
[11:56] <fabbione> sabdfl: that will kick a bunch of machines out of livecd
[11:56] <sabdfl> ok
[11:56] <bob2> that would stop it working on via c3s, too
[11:57] <bob2> which aren't still being made
[11:57] <sabdfl> in that case, forget my crackpipe idea
[11:57] <sabdfl> i guess a livecd is slow because of CD, not kernel
[11:58] <fabbione> sabdfl: are these the first symptoms of getting older? ;)
[11:58] <mdz> sabdfl: give me a week to make it fast
[11:58] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: the live cd is quite nice on a dualcore athlon64 with plenty of memory.
[11:58] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: ;-)
[12:00] <sabdfl> fabbione: i'm already wayyy.... past first symptoms
[12:01] <Mithrandir> ogra: ogra@ubuntu.com gets to you, right?
[12:01] <fabbione> sabdfl: well you are not much older than i am :)
[12:01] <mdz> sabdfl: currently there is rather little reason to use -686
[12:02] <sabdfl> mdz: understood, it was a dumb idea, i'll just return to LP now
[12:02] <mdz> in olden times (5 months ago) it was necessary in order to get highmem
[12:03] <highvoltage> fabbione: duck.
[12:03] <mdz> LP has almost as many subsystems as Ubuntu now
[12:03] <Keybuk>    * Add /etc/X11 to the default search path.  Don't look at how it's done,
[12:03] <Keybuk>      just accept that it works and move on with your life (closes:
[12:03] <Keybuk>      Ubuntu#14952).
[12:03] <Keybuk> heh
[12:03] <bob2> does katie poke bugzilla?
[12:03] <Kamion> bob2: no
[12:04] <sabdfl> bob2: only after dark
[12:04] <Kamion> but the annotation's useful for history-grubbing
[12:04] <sabdfl> elmo likes to watch
[12:04] <mdz> oh god, thomas beckett  is visiting
[12:05] <mdz> with an alternate email address
[12:07] <Kamion> who he?
[12:07] <mdz> of debian infamy
[12:07] <Kamion> YM Thomas Bushnell?
[12:08] <mdz> him too, but it's beckett who's now posting to ubuntu-devel
[12:09] <mdz> good night, all
[12:09] <Kamion> never heard of him before, I don't think
[12:09] <Kamion> night
[12:09] <mvo> the guy fighting fascism?
[12:09] <fabbione> mdz: night
[12:10] <mdz> maybe I've heard of him in non-debian context then
[12:10] <sabdfl> good luck here
[12:10] <seb128> 'night mdz
[12:10] <sabdfl> this is fascism central
[12:10] <mdz> fascism 'R' us
[12:10] <mdz> night
[12:12] <jdub> mdz: so, is your evms machine breezy?
[12:13] <jdub> after copying all my data to it, it decided it didn't like my lvm
[12:13] <jdub> and would not initialise it
[12:13] <jdub> so now i'm rebuilding and recopying many gigs!
[12:14] <fabbione> jdub: how did you configure LVM?
[12:14] <fabbione> lvm works perfectly here
[12:14] <jdub> via evms
[12:14] <fabbione> than you are using evms :)
[12:14] <fabbione> not lvm directly
[12:15] <jdub> yes, but it was the lvm that it didn't like
[12:15] <jdub> and given that breezy won't boot evms yet
[12:15] <fabbione> use lvm2 directly
[12:15] <ajmitch> jdub: what did evms complain about?
[12:15] <jdub> i'm almost tempted to forget it and just go back to md
[12:15] <fabbione> vgs
[12:15] <fabbione>   VG   #PV #LV #SN Attr  VSize VFree  
[12:15] <fabbione>   mofo   1  20   0 wz--n 1.09T 139.62G
[12:15] <jdub> ajmitch: there was a size mismatch between the pv metadata and the partition itself
[12:15] <fabbione> jdub: ^^ lvm2 on top of md
[12:15] <ajmitch> jdub: ah, same as I had
[12:15] <jdub> ajmitch: yes
[12:16] <jdub> ajmitch: you configured it with evms?
[12:16] <ajmitch> jdub: except it only occurred with 1 of the PVs that I had created
[12:16] <jdub> same here
[12:16] <ajmitch> no, I didn't, it complained on bootup that it wouldn't initialise though
[12:16] <jdub> the swap one was fine
[12:16] <ajmitch> I wasn't using that PV yet
[12:16] <ajmitch> although I'll probably need to soon, to build more packages
[12:17] <jdub> i'm now using evms from the hoary livecd ;)
[12:17] <bob2> fabbione: out of interest, what's the point of splitting up a 1TB array into LVs?
[12:18] <fabbione> bob2: different mount points
[12:18] <fabbione> i don't like the idea of having everything under /
[12:18] <fabbione> or at least.. in one lv
[12:18] <bob2> hm
[12:18] <fabbione> my idea is that i can boot in init 1 in less than 20 seconds
[12:18] <fabbione> without having to fsck /pr0n
[12:18] <bob2> is it just taste, or am I missing a technical point?
[12:18] <bob2> hah
[12:19] <fabbione> a fsck of 600GB can take time
[12:19] <fabbione> while 512M of / doesn't
[12:19] <fabbione> so i tend to split stuff up...
[12:19] <fabbione> and tuning the auto fsck at boot with different parameters
[12:19] <fabbione> so for each reboot different volumes are checked
[12:20] <fabbione> and never all at the same time
[12:20] <fabbione> (use prime numbers with tune2fs)
[12:20] <bob2> haha
[12:20] <bob2> ETOOGEEKY
[12:20] <torkel> and if you by mistake fill up one volume you don't fill the whole disk
[12:21] <fabbione> torkel: that's not possible as user..
[12:21] <fabbione> only as root
[12:21] <fabbione> at least on ext3
[12:21] <fabbione> i don't use other fancy file systems
[12:21] <torkel> everything under / and the user fills /tmp
[12:21] <fabbione> bob2: not really.. a 4x400GB raid5 takes around 8 hours to sync.. if you add the fsck on top, it will never boot
[12:22] <fabbione> torkel: as user you still can't
[12:22] <fabbione> torkel: check man e2fsck for the -m option
[12:22] <fabbione> torkel: by default it's 5%
[12:22] <fabbione> so if you don't trash it manually. you are safe
[12:22] <torkel> fabbione: true
[12:25] <doko> fabbione: you do have you RAID now? which controller?
[12:25] <fabbione> doko: i use software raid.. more flexible...
[12:26] <fabbione> specially because you can still poke at low level on the disk and fix superblocks to recover from a total failure 
[12:26] <fabbione> and software overhead is minimal at runtime
[12:26] <fabbione> it tends to suck resources if the raid needs to be resynced (like after a crash)
[12:27] <fabbione> but it's not any different from hw raid
[12:27] <fabbione> in terms that the I/O slow down is the same
[12:27] <Treenaks> jdub: it died on you?
[12:28] <jdub> i had a bad run-in with an overeager raid controller
[12:28] <mdke> Kamion, another problem with the installer, you available?
[12:29] <jdub> luckily it was raid1, and i had the other disk not plugged in
[12:30] <Kamion> mdke: yes
[12:31] <mdke> Kamion, i partitioned manually and it worked, then installing the base system failed because of a problem with "bootstrap". It refers me to a log that isn't there (/target/var/log/bootstrap.log) :(
[12:31] <Kamion> try /target/debootstrap/debootstrap.log
[12:31] <mdke> k
[12:31] <Kamion> I know the message is buggy; unfortunately it's a pain to fix due to translations
[12:31] <mdke> Kamion, ok that is better
[12:31] <Kamion> if I merge debootstrap 0.3.1.6 before breezy, that'll switch back to /var/log/messages / tty3
[12:32] <Kamion> which will be an improvement
[12:32] <mdke> Input/Output error would tend to suggest a problem with the CD right?
[12:32] <Kamion> yes
[12:32] <Kamion> 100% either CD or CD drive
[12:32] <mdke> ok thanks for your help
[12:32] <Kamion> np
[12:33] <ajmitch> hi JaneW 
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: I need an opinion about #14338
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: in Hoary, pressing the power button on apple iBooks just caused STR
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: now it also opens the logout dialog
[12:38] <pitti> seb128: we should do just one, and since the logout dialog does not offer suspend (at least not for me), I think doing the same as in hoary makes sense for nw
[12:38] <pitti> seb128: do you know where I can deactivate this?
[12:38] <pitti> Hi desrt 
[12:38] <desrt> that's my bug :p
[12:38] <desrt> anyway.... you can fix it in pbbuttonsd conf file
[12:38] <pitti> desrt: oh, indeed :-)
[12:39] <desrt> (if you want to go that way)
[12:39] <desrt> plus
[12:39] <desrt> suspending on power switch is silly since you can just close the laptop to acheive that effect
[12:39] <pitti> desrt: hm, well, right
[12:40] <pitti> desrt: so we should display the gnome logout dialog for the power button, and STR when closing lid?
[12:40] <desrt> yes.
[12:40] <seb128> pitti: no real opinion on that. The dialog should have a suspend though
[12:40] <desrt> sorry for not following up about this in the bug
[12:40] <desrt> to fix it though:
[12:40] <desrt> onAC_KeyAction = none
[12:40] <desrt> onBattery_KeyAction = none
[12:41] <desrt> mxpxpod and i found it the other day
[12:43] <pitti> seb128: well, it doesn't. The dialog has STD on my desktop, wich actually works, but there is no suspend option on my laptop
[12:43] <pitti> seb128: pmi is installed
[12:44] <JaneW> hi ajmitch 
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: and "pmi capabilities" shows "suspend"
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: so where could the bug be?
[12:44] <mjg59> sabdfl: I got it via jdub
[12:44] <seb128> pitti: grep Command /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[12:45] <seb128> pitti: if that's an old install and you have no used the gdm.conf changes from the package
[12:45] <\sh> oh good morning JaneW 
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: it's a Breezy preview install, clean and fresh
[12:46] <Diziet> Why oh why oh why are we carrying _50kloc_ of patches to firefox ?
[12:46] <pitti> Diziet: only Ubuntu, or Ubuntu and Debian?
[12:46] <pitti> Diziet: I think the real thing that hurts is the lack of a patch system
[12:47] <pitti> Diziet: mozilla and tbird are much easier to maintain and merge
[12:47] <JaneW> hi \sh
[12:47] <pitti> Diziet: however, IIRC you recently closed that bug that asked for it
[12:47] <Diziet> Debian are carrying about half of that.
[12:47] <mjg59> pitti: You've edited /etc/default/acpi-support ? Or is this PPC?
[12:47] <pitti> mjg59: ppc
[12:47] <pitti> mjg59: well, are you talking about the bug followups this morning? or about above double-action on the power key?
[12:48] <mjg59> What you're discussing now
[12:48] <pitti> yes, that's powerpc
[12:48] <mjg59> I've no idea about the other PPC issues (I don't have a PPC laptop)
[12:48] <pitti> pbbuttonsd issue
[12:48] <Diziet> Which bug did you mean ?
[12:49] <pitti> mjg59: the pmi failures mentioned in the bug followups from this morning are for my amd64 desktop
[12:49] <pitti> Diziet: there was a bug "Please add a patch system to firefox"
[12:49] <mjg59> pitti: Am I CCed?
[12:49] <Diziet> Oh, that.  You must be joking.  How could things get worse ?
[12:50] <pitti> mjg59: yes, you are the assignee of both
[12:50] <Diziet> The problem isn't that I can't tell these patches apart.  The problem is that they're there at all.
[12:50] <pitti> Diziet: at least maintaining the Ubuntu specific patches with dpatch or whatever would make merges and submissions to Debian much easier
[12:50] <mjg59> pitti: Ah, fun
[12:50] <pitti> Diziet: oh, ok; I found the diff.gz and single patches very hard to sort
[12:53] <pitti> mjg59: the fun part is that the die-hard kernel way works and all the script magic which is supposed to fix things makes it break
[12:53] <ogra> morning
[12:53] <mjg59> pitti: Oh, the USB stuff? Yeah, that'll be fixed in the next initramfs-tools upload
[12:53] <ogra> Mithrandir, yes
[12:53] <pitti> Good afternoon ogra :-)
[12:53] <mvo> good morning ogra 
[12:53] <pitti> mjg59: and the deconfiguration of ethernet?
[12:53] <ogra> :)
[12:53] <mjg59> Should also be sorted
[12:53] <pitti> cool
[12:54] <pitti> mjg59: so some cards need to be shut down before suspend?
[12:54] <Mithrandir> ogra: you've got mail, then.  Marilize would be happy for an answer, I think.
[12:54] <pitti> mjg59: my eth1 has a plain static fixed configuration, and yet it was not brought up again on resume
[12:54] <ogra> Mithrandir, yup i read my mail before IRC :)
[12:54] <Mithrandir> ogra: heh, 'k
[12:54] <mjg59> pitti: It's set to auto in /etc/network/interfaces ?
[12:55] <pitti> mjg59: yes
[12:55] <pitti> auto eth1
[12:55] <pitti> iface eth1 inet static
[12:55] <pitti>         address 172.16.0.1
[12:55] <pitti>         netmask 255.255.255.0
[12:56] <mjg59> Right. Then I've no idea why it doesn't come up.
[12:56] <mjg59> Putting set -x into resume.sh would be helpful
[12:56] <pitti> mjg59: ok, I dig a bit further; thanks
[01:01] <ajmitch> sabdfl: well put :)
[01:01] <ogra> lol
[01:01] <Nafallo> lol
[01:02] <sabdfl> well, 'strue, innit
[01:02] <ogra> *g*
[01:02] <sabdfl> still it is a bug
[01:04] <\sh> but a computer running while doing the family planning? I thought I'm ill
[01:05] <pitti> me too, I always have the feeling that the IRC crowd is watching :-)
[01:05] <Nafallo> maybe the co-op planner surprised him :-)
[01:05] <ogra> pitti, we do !! phear us ! :)
[01:06] <pitti> ogra: that's why I switch my box off when I don't use it
[01:06] <Kamion> \sh: that would be "sick" rather than "ill", if I catch your meaning correctly
[01:06] <Mithrandir> or maybe he's got a computer close to where he sleeps.
[01:06] <\sh> Kamion: right...sick, ill, whatever ;) 
[01:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, i heard rumours that there are people who switch them off
[01:06] <Nafallo> that reminds me of when my girlfriend took her cloth of the first time and I told her she got a webcam behind her :-)
[01:06] <Mithrandir> ogra: weird people.
[01:07] <ogra> yup :)
[01:07] <pitti> Nafallo: lol
[01:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: conserve power, save the planet!
[01:07] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: she wore more than one piece of cloth when you visited.
[01:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: I live in a place where there's a need for heating approximately 3/4 of the year.
[01:07] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: true :-)
[01:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm not, that's why I switch it off :-) in my place I keep the balcony door constantly open for 7 months per year
[01:09] <\sh> pitti: I thought u r living in germany ;-)
[01:09] <pitti> \sh: I do :-)
[01:09] <pitti> \sh: so what, 18 degrees is more than enough in my room
[01:09] <Nafallo> pitti: brrr. I have _atleast_ 25 ;-)
[01:10] <bob2> lamont: how come linux-wlan-ng isn't being tried on amd64 anymore?
[01:10] <bob2> lamont: the drivers that require it build as part of the kernel still
[01:10] <ajmitch> pitti: just a bit
[01:11] <Nafallo> hmm. we are talking about computers and problems with temprature :-). this discussion is SO on topic. like... why do we build stuff? :-)
[01:12] <Nafallo> to keep the temprature on the right level of course. what else could be the reason? ;-)
[01:13] <pitti> Nafallo: hm - do the folks in the northern part of the world use Gentoo more than, let's say, the Italians?
[01:13] <ajmitch> pitti: CCed you on malone 1559
[01:14] <Nafallo> hehe, I did for a year or so. now I'm rather testbuilding stuff ;-)
[01:14] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:~$ sudo -u katie /srv/buildd.no-name-yet.com/bin/wanna-build -b amd64/build-db --info linux-wlan-ng
[01:14] <Kamion> linux-wlan-ng: not registered
[01:14] <pitti> ajmitch: thx
[01:15] <bob2> Kamion: should I file a bug?
[01:16] <Kamion> bob2: no, wait until lamont turns up, he might understand it
[01:16] <bob2> Kamion: sure
[01:16] <Lathiat> pitti: about?
[01:16] <Kamion> oh, it's P-a-sed
[01:16] <bob2> ahh
[01:16] <Kamion> %linux-wlan-ng: i386 powerpc arm alpha hppa                           # ANAIS [?] 
[01:16] <pitti> Lathiat: about what?
[01:17] <Kamion> lamont: can you add amd64 to linux-wlan-ng in P-a-s, or was there a reason it was removed?
[01:17] <Lathiat> pitti: looking at a security patch for trac/hoary, theres no debian/patches infrastructure, should i add some in or just jam the patch in? (i prefer to add some in in universe generally but not sure if i should do it differently for security stuff)
[01:18] <pitti> Lathiat: just applying it inline is fine then
[01:18] <ogra> whaa, what made my edubuntu CD 1MB bigger ?
[01:18] <Lathiat> its only 2 lines
[01:18] <Lathiat> so nothing major
[01:18] <pitti> Lathiat: there won't be any other patches than security for stables, so it doesn't matter
[01:18] <Lathiat> pitti: is there any changelog convention? closing malone bugs? cve references?
[01:20] <pitti> Lathiat: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
[01:20] <Lathiat> pitti: okie
[01:20] <pitti> Lathiat: the CAN number is crucial, Malone bug number is good, and we need a good description
[01:22] <Simira> mjg59 : ping
[01:23] <Kamion> ogra: that can easily happen
[01:23] <Kamion> but you're not oversized, so ...?
[01:23] <ogra> Kamion, yup... i was just a bit shocked to be at 700MB
[01:23] <Kamion> although of course you have that 700MB allowance in the oversizedness check
[01:24] <mjg59> Simira: Hi
[01:25] <ogra> Kamion, i'll consider to drop stuff from powerpc.... its odd to have at least 50MB space on the other arches and not being able to use it..
[01:26] <Kamion> it's your distro ;)
[01:26] <ogra> :)
[01:27] <jbailey> jdub: I'm here now if you're awake. =)
[01:28] <jbailey> mdz: The md dependancy of initramfs-tools isn't needed.  The lvm2 one is to make sure that the minimum version is met.  (The minimum version could be looser than it is, but it at least needed to be newer that either Warty's or Hoary's IIRC)
[01:29] <ajmitch> morning jbailey :)
[01:34] <jbailey> Heya Andrew =)
[01:36] <ogra> wow, cool
[01:36] <fabbione> (but it will mostlikely not even boot)
[01:36] <spacey> :] 
[01:36] <Treenaks> still, cool :)
[01:37] <fabbione> well i am rsyncing to test...
[01:39] <chmj> hold thumbs 
[01:53] <torkel> mvo: ping?
[01:53] <mvo> torkel: pong
[01:54] <ogra> elmo, around ? 
[01:54] <torkel> mvo: apt-listchanges still barfs when you are not allowed to connect to the disply
[01:54] <mvo> torkel: so it still fails?
[01:54] <torkel> mvo: yes
[01:55] <mvo> torkel: with the same error as descriped in your bugreport?
[01:55] <ogra> Kamion, i've split out a xscreensaver-data package for usage with gnome-screensaver (just uploaded), could you NEW it if it hits the archive ? 
[01:56] <torkel> mvo: if possible gtk should only be imported when the gtk-frontend is selected (or if you are allowed to connect to the display)
[01:56] <torkel> mvo: yes
[01:56] <sabdfl> ogra: does it include all the RSS screensavers too?
[01:56] <Kamion> if it's urgent
[01:56] <Diziet> Hmmm.  It seems our firefox has been compiled with -O0 because of some vague hints of trouble in the past.
[01:57] <torkel> mvo: not sure how to do it though
[01:57] <ogra> sabdfl, for now i've splite them all out into a -data package to have something to work with
[01:57] <mvo> torkel: it's a bit tricky with the code in apt-listchanges, but I'll have a look now
[01:57] <Kamion> ogra: I have to go out to the pet shop now though, may be a little while
[01:57] <ogra> sabdfl, i'll move the ones we dont want back into the core package later
[01:57] <sabdfl> ogra: and does that -data package include the really-slick-screensavers (GL) asn well as the ones that come with xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver?
[01:57] <torkel> mvo: just poke me if you have something you want me to test
[01:58] <ogra> sabdfl, nope, these are separate already
[01:58] <mvo> torkel: looking at it now, thanks
[01:58] <slomo> does someone know where i can get the canonical ca certificate?
[01:58] <sabdfl> ogra: did you see the conversation i had with seb128 earlier
[01:58] <ogra> sabdfl, no need to package them again
[01:58] <ogra> nope...
[01:59] <ogra> sabdfl, oh, you mean yesterday night, yes, i was there 
[01:59] <sabdfl> ogra: no, this morning
[01:59] <sabdfl> here's what i would like
[02:00] <sabdfl> all the screensavers we turn on by default in a single package
[02:00] <sabdfl> that includes the ones from realy slick screensavers
[02:00] <sabdfl> gl
[02:00] <sabdfl> normal xscreensaver
[02:00] <sabdfl> gnome-screensaver
[02:00] <sabdfl> that should be -data
[02:00] <sabdfl> and then everything else in a -extra-data package
[02:00] <ajmitch> alright, bug day has started :)
[02:00] <sabdfl> then, gnome-screensaver can just depend on -data
[02:00] <sabdfl> and so can xscreensaver
[02:00] <sabdfl> make sense?
[02:02] <ogra> sabdfl, yes...
[02:03] <torkel> is that really wise? You probably don't want to run the gl ones on a slow unaccelerated machine?
[02:03] <ogra> sabdfl, just that the rss ones are from another source, i'll have ot investigate that
[02:03] <sabdfl> torkel: they are all turned on by default
[02:03] <sabdfl> folks can turn them off
[02:04] <torkel> in xscreensaver yes. But not in gnome-screensaver when using random
[02:04] <ogra> in fact xscreensaver-gl only contains hacks
[02:04] <Kamion> any reason we couldn't look at xdpyinfo to find out if you have direct rendering, and if not disable the GL ones by default?
[02:04] <Diziet> No, actually, about:buildconfig lies.
[02:05] <Kamion> the usual cause for my laptop running slowly is that somebody else logged in on another display has a GL screensaver running
[02:05] <ogra> Kamion, yuo cant en/disable them in gnome-screensaver ... the ines installed are used
[02:05] <ogra> the ones even
[02:05] <Kamion> we should add a random-nogl then
[02:06] <Kamion> or whatever
[02:06] <bob2> is it unreasonable to get lintian synched from Debian again?
[02:09] <ogra> sabdfl, if you say it includes the ones from rss, do you mean all ? 
[02:09] <Kamion> bob2: it'll require a merge, but I don't see why not
[02:10] <ogra> (i think they are all worth being shipped)
[02:10] <torkel> ogra: I just filed a bug in b.gnome.org about disabling hacks
[02:11] <ogra> torkel, thanks... but i doubt it will make it until release :)
[02:11] <slomo> sabdfl: hi... do you know where i can get the canonical ca certificate? i need it for malone bug 1956 (inclusion into ca-certificates)
[02:11] <ogra> i'm pretty sure we'll have a rocking gnome-screensaver in dapper... for breezy we need to make the best out of what we have
[02:12] <ogra> else we'll make mdz cry with late changes :)
[02:20] <sabdfl> Riddell: what's amarok?
[02:20] <sabdfl> slomo: i don't think our root should be widely distributed
[02:20] <sabdfl> we're not really setup to be a PKI
[02:21] <sabdfl> we should in fact get more certs from someone who does that for a day job
[02:22] <slomo> sabdfl: ok... it's probably just annoying for new users to get the warnings about an untrusted ca while logging into launchpad for example ;)
[02:23] <ogra> sabdfl, amarok is a rhythmbox clone for KDE
[02:23] <\sh> ogra: u can't say that
[02:24] <\sh> ogra: amarok has (a lot) more features then rhythmbox has
[02:24] <ogra> \sh, why ? 
[02:24] <ogra> heh
[02:24] <ogra> \sh, yes, its KDE :)
[02:24] <sabdfl> slomo: we need to get proper certs for LP
[02:25] <sabdfl> ogra, Riddell: is a move to amarok 1.3 insane at this point?
[02:25] <\sh> ogra: I want to see a autoscrobbler plugin for rhythmbox...and no not this cli tool ;)
[02:25] <sabdfl> a reviewer expressed some disappointment
[02:25] <Lathiat> amarok 1.3 is nice, but is it a stable release?
[02:25] <\sh> sabdfl: if u say yes, I'll prepare one ,-)
[02:25] <\sh> Lathiat: yes
[02:25] <Lathiat> i was using svn a bit back and it has some real nifty new stuff
[02:25] <\sh> 1.3.1 is latest stable with bugfixes
[02:25] <ogra> sabdfl, taht'd be a mdz decision... but i trst \sh's judgement about KDE apps...
[02:26] <ogra> trust even
[02:26] <sabdfl> within kubuntu, \sh and Riddell have lots of say too ;-)
[02:26] <sabdfl> if its something users will notice and miss, then we should consider making an exception.
[02:26] <sabdfl> especially if upstream is stable
[02:26] <sabdfl> and there is a good package
[02:26] <sabdfl> and testing goes smoothly (hint hint)
[02:26] <lamont> bob2: %linux-wlan-ng: i386 powerpc arm alpha hppa                           # ANAIS [?] 
[02:27] <slomo> sabdfl: ok... then i'll just close that bug... can't you get the ssl certificates signed by thawte? at least it was your company before ;)
[02:27] <\sh> sabdfl: I'll prepare some packages to test
[02:27] <sabdfl> slomo: have to buy 'em like everybody else
[02:27] <Treenaks> openid maybe?
[02:27] <sabdfl> elmo: status on proper certs for mail.canonical.com, launchpad.net?
[02:27] <bob2> lamont: is there a reason it wa P-a-sd?
[02:28] <sabdfl> i'm rebooting a fw that is now running breezy kubuntu
[02:28] <lamont> bob2: dunno - I don't think it was me.
[02:28] <sabdfl> if i'm not back in 10mins
[02:28] <sabdfl> ...
[02:28] <sabdfl> NO NEW AMAROK FOR YOU!
[02:28] <ogra> :)
[02:28] <lamont> but if the package says 'amd64' in the arch list, then it should work...
[02:28] <\sh> lol
[02:28] <lamont> elmo: new PaS, if you would be so kind.
[02:28] <\sh> I should told him, that I'm busy with new wine ;)
[02:28] <Lathiat> haha
[02:29] <bob2> lamont: thanks
[02:31] <pitti> OMG, our pbbuttonsd is stone old, and the upstream changelog mentions 10.000 bug fixes since then
[02:31] <ogra> pitti, update :)
[02:31] <pitti> ogra: I'd like to, the new version works fine since two weeks for several people
[02:31] <ogra> 10.000 is a good number for a UVF break :)
[02:31] <pitti> but we are in FREEZE
[02:31] <pitti> :-/
[02:32] <jbailey> pitti: That's the ppc64 daemon that likes to eat CPU, right? =)
[02:32] <pitti> jbailey: right
[02:32] <jbailey> (Or that's how I usually think of it right before I kill ilt)
[02:32] <jbailey> s/ilt/it/
[02:32] <pitti> jbailey: I just try to find the change that fixed it
[02:32] <pitti> jbailey: but reading the changelog alone takes 15 minutes
[02:33] <jbailey> Ouch.
[02:33] <ogra> seb128, ok with you if i upload a gnome-screensaver package that depends on xscreensaver-data ? 
[02:33] <pitti> jbailey: try http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/packages/pbbuttonsd_0.7.1-1ubuntu1_powerpc.deb
[02:33] <seb128> ogra: I'm not convinced that a Depends is right
[02:33] <seb128> ogra: Recommends seems to be right
[02:33] <pitti> jbailey: that's the version I gave to the bug submitters
[02:33] <ogra> oki
[02:33] <jbailey> Starting pbbuttonsd: ERROR: The file '/dev/pmu' doesn't exist.
[02:33] <ogra> seb128, we'll seed it anyway :)
[02:33] <seb128> ogra: we should rather list if for "desktop"
[02:33] <seb128> yep
[02:34] <jbailey> pitti: ^^
[02:34] <bob2> Lathiat: someone should base something on libapt that does that...and records when things were recorded just as dependencies for other things...and had a curses interface...you could call it aptitude!
[02:34] <pitti> jbailey: * Use MAKEDEV to create the pmu file, depends on makedev (>= 2.3.1-78)
[02:34] <pitti> jbailey: also fixed
[02:35] <jbailey> pitti: No, that's from your package.
[02:35] <Lathiat> bob2: curses interface is overrated
[02:35] <Kamion> Lathiat: you can use aptitude from the command line as an apt-get replacement
[02:35] <jbailey> pitti: MAKEDEV won't do much usefully on a udev system.
[02:35] <Lathiat> Kamion: oh?
[02:35] <Lathiat> Kamion: does it supoprt the same commands?
[02:35] <Kamion> pretty much
[02:35] <Kamion> aptitude --help
[02:35] <pitti> jbailey: oh, interesting; does the current package work?
[02:36] <Lathiat> hrm, neat
[02:36] <jbailey> pitti: reverting, just a sec.
[02:36] <pitti> Kamion: I suppose updating to pbbuttonsd 0.7.1 is out of question?
[02:36] <jbailey> pitti: It might be why I haven't noticed the slow down in a little while.
[02:36] <bob2> Lathiat: oh, I was being sarcastic; you can alias apt-get=aptitude, more or less
[02:36] <Kamion> pitti: I'd rather not make that call
[02:36] <Lathiat> bob2: i knew you were being sarcastic ;)
[02:36] <Lathiat> are you ever not?
[02:36] <jbailey> Feh, it's not in my apt archive.  /me fetches
[02:37] <bob2> Lathiat: at LCA I was too sick to be sarcastic, you missed out
[02:37] <jbailey> pitti: No, it fails to work too, although it doesn't mention why.
[02:37] <Lathiat> bob2: damn
[02:38] <pitti> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pbbuttons/pbbuttons/pbbuttonsd/  - BAH! Go, SF
[02:39] <ogra> Mithrandir,  thought the new NM in universe would be so rocking cool ? 
[02:41] <Mithrandir> a) it generates an invalid resolv.conf (no, ; is not a comment sign in resolv.conf) and b) it touches my resolv.conf.
[02:41] <pitti> well, that's resolvconf's fault, I suppose
[02:41] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: well, that's no change from the old version ;-)
[02:41] <pitti> (I know it sucks, it always breaks my networking)
[02:42] <Nafallo> pitti: that NM nukes the symlink and make a static file of resolv.conf? :-)
[02:42] <mvo> torkel: fixed version uploaded, please let me know if there are problems
[02:42] <torkel> mvo: sure
[02:42] <pitti> Nafallo: no idea, I haven't looked at it for a while
[02:43] <Nafallo> pitti: well, always did that since thom uploaded it in the middle of the cycle :-)
[02:43] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: it should _stay away_ if it hasn't generated the file itself.
[02:44] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: I agree :-)
[02:44] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: hack it please ;-)
[02:44] <eruin> is avahi 0.4 what's going to be released with breezy?
[02:44] <Lathiat> eruin: 0.5
[02:44] <eruin> yay
[02:44] <eruin> :)
[02:44] <Lathiat> whatcha wondering for?
[02:45] <eruin> rhythmbox head, plus I'm going to attemt to write a small client for my local network
[02:45] <Lathiat> eruin: feel free to stop by #avahi
[02:45] <eruin> done
[02:55] <dholbach> hellas
[02:55] <dholbach> finally internet from home
[02:55] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[02:56] <pitti> yay
[02:56] <ogra> yay
[02:56] <dholbach> :)
[02:56] <mvo> good morning dholbach 
[02:56] <pitti> dholbach: seb128 missed you
[02:56] <ogra> hehe
[02:56] <dholbach> i'm SOO relieved
[02:57] <dholbach> thank you mvo :)
[02:57] <seb128> hi dholbach
[02:58] <seb128> dholbach: so you broke everything and runned away ;)
[02:58] <dholbach> i'm not aware of breakage, seb - ogra just tried to tell me so
[02:58] <dholbach> i restarted my box yesterday to test the svg crack and it worked particularly well
[02:58] <Treenaks> svg crack?
[02:58] <dholbach> the guy who reported an svg bug on malone tested it and he was fine too
[02:59] <seb128> dholbach: didn't work with Ubuntu SVG icons
[02:59] <dholbach> hm?!
[02:59] <seb128> dholbach: they don't match the new loader definition because of the long comments
[02:59] <seb128> dholbach: I had to debug that at 2am when matt, etc said that was b0rked for everybody using the Human theme :p
[03:00] <dholbach> oh man :-(
[03:00] <seb128> just when I was going to close my IRC to sleep
[03:00] <seb128> anyway no big deal, tomorrow is saturday I'll sleep :)
[03:00] <dholbach> i will pay the beer at ubz to you
[03:00] <ogra> seb128, ahah
[03:00] <ogra> seb128, who should belive that ??
[03:00] <dholbach> ogra: are you french? you laugh backwards :)
[03:00] <seb128> dholbach: thanks :)
[03:01] <jbailey> mjg59: This patch attempts to resume before ide-disk and friends are loaded.  Is that what's supposed to happen?
[03:01] <ogra> dholbach, just adjusting my speech for my counterpart ;)
[03:01] <seb128> dholbach: the short story is that new librsvg doesn't match <?xml but <svg on 100 chars ...
[03:01] <seb128> dholbach: and edit /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/apps/mozilla-firefox.svg to understand why it doesn't work
[03:01] <dholbach> what did the guys from #librsvg say about that?
[03:02] <seb128> dholbach: at 3am? nothing, I went to bed after doing a fix-upload
[03:02] <seb128> dholbach: and I was waiting for you to discuss it today :)
[03:03] <mvo> s/discuss it/beat you/ ;)
[03:04] <\sh> mvo: u got my bugreport regarding update-manager/update-notifier?
[03:04] <mvo> \sh: bug-nr?
[03:04] <\sh> mvo: #15550
[03:04] <lifeless> mjg59: ping
[03:06] <mvo> \sh: yes, answered already and prepared a fixed version
[03:06] <mvo> \sh: didn't realized it was from you though :)
[03:06] <\sh> mvo: well..fast machine is not exactly what I have here ;)
[03:07] <\sh> mvo: but the updates were almost installed when the toaster appeared ;)
[03:09] <doko> Kamion: is there still place on the amd64 CD to add lib32gcj6?
[03:10] <doko> 4.8MB
[03:11] <pitti> how big does OOo still want to get? *sigh*
[03:12] <mjg59> jbailey: Hmm. Probably not.
[03:12] <mjg59> jbailey: (It seems to work though, so I'm a touch confused...)
[03:13] <doko> pitti: I thought, powerpc is the CD which is the critical one
[03:13] <lifeless> mjg59: hey there
[03:14] <pitti> doko: not only
[03:14] <pitti> doko: oh, it is only for amd64, not i386
[03:14] <pitti> doko: however, there are *no* language packs *at all* at the live CD
[03:14] <doko> doko: yes
[03:14] <lifeless> mjg59: my hibernate button does't :[
[03:14] <pitti> doko: we can't cut down langpacks on the amd64 live
[03:15] <lifeless> doesn't
[03:15] <Mithrandir> pitti: just wait for ooo4 or 5, the source package won't fit on a DVD.
[03:15] <pitti> doko: in fact, we need to cut down amd64 by 16 MB
[03:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: *cry*
[03:15] <doko> Mithrandir: I just need to copy the OOo2 source a few times, then it won't fit today :)
[03:16] <doko> pitti: drop some lang-packs :-P
[03:16] <marcin_ant> hi all - sorry because it's propably #ubuntu question but no answer there
[03:16] <pitti> doko: *THERE* *ARE* *NO* *LANGPACKS* any more
[03:16] <marcin_ant> question is: is there a package with java 1.5 for breezy somewhere?
[03:16] <ogra> doko, you want a new schooltool upstream version ? 
[03:17] <pitti> doko: I guess we have to cut down the WinFOSS stuff on amd64
[03:17] <mjg59> lifeless: What hardware?
[03:17] <lifeless> mjg59: my dell X1
[03:17] <doko> ogra: well, sabdfl pulled the last one as well, but for now I want one which doesn't include the zope3 source
[03:17] <mjg59> lifeless: Ok, should be fixed soon
[03:17] <lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/codes.txt
[03:17] <ogra> doko, ok
[03:18] <sabdfl> NO NEW AMAROK FOR YOU!
[03:18] <lifeless> mjg59: also I have a hibernate won't-resume bug, that I mailed to the list
[03:18] <doko> sabdfl: but a new schooltool? ;-)
[03:18] <mjg59> lifeless: With luck, also improved with the next initramfs-tools upload
[03:18] <sabdfl> definitely
[03:18] <sabdfl> back to school everybody
[03:18] <lifeless> mjg59: sweet
[03:18] <ogra> fun
[03:19] <lifeless> mjg59: when is that :)
[03:19] <ogra> AND USE EDUBUNTU AT SCHOOL !!
[03:19] <mjg59> When jeff does it :)
[03:19] <sabdfl> fabionne: seems like there's a conflict between fglrx and radeonfb
[03:19] <jbailey> mjg59: Do you have ide-disk and ide-generic in your /etc/mkinitramfs/modules ?
[03:19] <mjg59> jbailey: Don't think so
[03:20] <jbailey> mjg59: Err..
[03:20] <jbailey> It's the only way this should vaguely even work. =)
[03:20] <mjg59> jbailey: I guess just call ide_boot_events after that rather than later on?
[03:20] <\sh> sabdfl: u want to test amarok-1.3.1?
[03:20] <sabdfl> \sh sure
[03:20] <lifeless> jbailey: puhlease
[03:21] <jbailey> mjg59: Well, i2o, scsi, and ide.
[03:21] <mjg59> sabdfl: radeonfb is not expected to work with fglrx
[03:21] <\sh> sabdfl: ok...let me apply one more patch...and U are the first one who is able to test ;)
[03:21] <jbailey> I think IDE might have to be reordered to last, since I'm going to forcably always load ide-generic in there.
[03:21] <sabdfl> mjg59: interesting. on my desktop, enabling fglrx doesn't cause a problem. on the fw, it did
[03:21] <jbailey> (it appears ide-generic devices are not hotplug enabled yet)
[03:21] <mjg59> sabdfl: Yeah. It's, well, crack.
[03:21] <sabdfl> seems so, yes
[03:22] <sabdfl> nasty, binary crack too
[03:22] <mjg59> I told you not to ship them, but noooooooooooooo....
[03:23] <mjg59> :)
[03:24] <\sh> sabdfl: i386? add to your sources.list deb http://archive.linux-server.org/ breezy/i386/
[03:25] <\sh> sabdfl: and wait for my go in 20 mins ;)
[03:29] <ogra> \sh, if he cant use kubuntu, he cant test amarok :) fix kubuntu first ;)
[03:29] <\sh> ogra: he can test amarok with gnome ;)
[03:29] <\sh> ogra: whats wrong with kubuntu?
[03:29] <ogra> \sh, dunno, i didnt test it :p
[03:29] <Lathiat> \sh: i'll have amarok 1.3 too
[03:30] <ogra> \sh, ask the tester 
[03:31] <seb128> \sh: it starts with a "k"
[03:32] <ogra> *g*
[03:32] <\sh> come on guys...I'm fixing kde stuff running gnome 
[03:35] <seb128> \sh: you should fix GNOME stuff running GNOME :)
[03:35] <ogra> hehe
[03:35] <ogra> and a bit of kdeedu for edubuntu :)
[03:35] <\sh> sabdfl: ok...add the new source deb http://archive.linux-server.org/ breezy/i386/
[03:35] <\sh> sabdfl: run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade ,-)
[03:36] <\sh> I hope it works ;)
[03:36] <\sh> I have to see after the xorg dance
[03:40] <jdub> seb128: despite sensory overload, amarok kicks the crap out of the music players in gnome land - too much split effort :-)
[03:41] <sabdfl> \sh: looks great
[03:41] <sabdfl> lets DOIT
[03:41] <sabdfl> Riddell, \sh, your call, it introduces no new dependency changes
[03:42] <\sh> sabdfl: no
[03:42] <Lathiat> malone is starting to be pretty sweet
[03:42] <sabdfl> so, your call, but let mdz know about htis conversation
[03:42] <seb128> jdub: I don't listen music on my computer a lot to be honest, and rb is good enough to play an album
[03:42] <pitti> lifeless: I can still reproduce the "bzr mv" exception with the latest bzr
[03:43] <lifeless> pitti - are you using the package, or a source download ?
[03:43] <pitti> lifeless: jbailey's daily snapshot package
[03:43] <\sh> mdz: ok with you to break Freeze for amarok-1.3.1? (regarding the chat with sabdfl?) 
[03:43] <lifeless> pitti: please try with a source download, or try tomorrow
[03:43] <pitti> lifeless: but I also tried it on rookery, there I use pure bzr.dev
[03:43] <lifeless> pitti: hmm. 
[03:44] <\sh> sabdfl: I will talk to mdz first
[03:44] <sabdfl> \sh cool, i'm sure it will be fine
[03:44] <pitti> lifeless: I "bzr pull" again on rookery and try again
[03:44] <lifeless> pitti: is the file in the tree from previous commits? or new ?
[03:44] <pitti> lifeless: CHANGES has always been there - I just want to rename it to ChangeLog to adhere to GNU standards for autotoolization
[03:45] <pitti> lifeless: ouch - bzr pull failed as well - interested?
[03:46] <torkel> mvo: apt-listchanges works now. Thanks for fixing it!
[03:48] <seb128> jdub: bah, apt wants to use 83M to install amarok :)
[03:49] <ogra> seb128, rewirte it ;)
[03:50] <pitti> yes, replace it with a 10-line shell script
[03:50] <dieman> heh
[03:51] <bddebian> Morning
[03:52] <bddebian> pitti: ping?
[03:52] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, remember that issue with "ubuntu configuration" not translated after install reboot? it still seems to be there....
[03:52] <lifeless> pitti: do another pull
[03:52] <ogra> pitti, add additional 20 lines with zenity love for a gui ;)
[03:52] <lifeless> pitti: I'm recording that poull bug now, we need a test for this
[03:54] <elmo> lamont/infinity: ?
[03:54] <pitti> Hi bddebian 
[03:55] <bddebian> pitti: Hi.  How did you / are you fix pgadmin3 without libpgtcl?
[03:55] <pitti> lifeless: did you get my /msg?
[03:55] <pitti> bddebian: I can't without libpgtcl 
[03:55] <pitti> bddebian: when I find some minutes of non-work time, I can deal with my Debian stuff and fix that
[03:56] <pitti> lifeless: hmm, the second "bzr pull" succeeded for some reason
[03:56] <pitti> lifeless: ah, you fixed that bug recently and the first pull pulled enough code to make the second try work? 
[03:57] <mdke> there was a report on the -it mailing list this morning of a hoary->breezy upgrade where the system was not proeprly localised after upgrading and the user had to install the relevant gnome language pack, is this problem known
[03:57] <mdke> ?
[03:57] <pitti> lifeless: cool, bzr mv works now as well - thanks a million
[03:57] <lifeless> pitti: nope, but I know how it works :[
[03:57] <lifeless> sweet
[03:58] <pitti> lifeless: I don't use bzr.dev at home any more since bzr pull just broke too often, so I use jbailey's daily debs now
[03:58] <lifeless> k
[03:58] <pitti> also, a single pull probably downloaded tenfold the amount of stuff than just upgrading the deb
[03:59] <pitti> but that should get better with weave, I suppose
[03:59] <lifeless> mjg59: ping
[03:59] <mjg59> lifeless: Hi
[03:59] <lifeless> mjg59: just did a kernel upgrade
[03:59] <mjg59> Ok
[03:59] <lifeless> gnome thinkgs I can still hibernate
[03:59] <lifeless> *thinks*
[03:59] <mjg59> Gnome ought to think that
[03:59] <lifeless> why?!
[04:00] <mjg59> Oh, I see what you mean
[04:00] <lifeless> Yes.
[04:00] <mjg59> That's done statically on gdm startup
[04:01] <lifeless> can we at least make the prepare.sh fail noisily if the kernel version needed is not present anymore a, and set the kernel as default if it is present ?
[04:01] <lifeless> would you like a bug report ?
[04:02] <lifeless> mjg59: ^^ ?
[04:03] <mjg59> There's already a bug open about this
[04:04] <bddebian> pitti: libpgtcl is broken in Debian?
[04:05] <ogra> seb128, is it intentional that evo suddenly has no trash anymore ? i loast some mails through that...
[04:05] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: yes, we haven't rebuilt debconf since pitti took it out of pkgstriptranslations
[04:05] <seb128> ogra: no ... imap trash ? local one ?
[04:05] <pitti> bddebian: s/broken/disappeared/
[04:05] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I'll do it now
[04:05] <ogra> seb128, local from a pop3 account
[04:05] <bddebian> pitti: Ohh
[04:05] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, :) 
[04:05] <pitti> bddebian: somebody needs to package it from http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgtcl/projdisplay.php
[04:06] <lifeless> mjg59: is there ? 
[04:06] <ogra> seb128, the summary shows 79 deleted mails, but i dont see them... i didnt change any config options...
[04:06] <pitti> bddebian: earlier it was built from the postgresql sources, but upstream removed it since it is a separate project now
[04:06] <bddebian> OK
[04:06] <pitti> bddebian: and I don't know a bit about Tcl, so I'm not particularly interested
[04:07] <lifeless> mjg59:  do you remember the # ?
[04:07] <bddebian> Well I don't know anything about anything but maybe I'll give it a shot. ;-)
[04:07] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: done. thanks for the reminder
[04:07] <ogra> seb128, it also stopped downloading pics from the net recently, so i cant see the replica watches in my spam anymore
[04:10] <seb128> ogra: view menu, "show deleleted messages"
[04:10] <ogra> seb128, nm, i'm an idiot... i had a serch filter set
[04:11] <seb128> k
[04:11] <ogra> i miss that very often, i wonder how to improve it
[04:11] <hughsie> mjg59: ping..
[04:11] <hughsie> ogra: you got a minute?
[04:12] <ogra> hughsie, a short one :)
[04:12] <hughsie> cool, thanks. in breezy, what commands will hibernate and suspend the machine?
[04:12] <hughsie> you have scripts right...
[04:12] <hughsie> just redesigning the hal launchers a bit
[04:12] <seb128> hughsie: pmi action suspend and pmi action hibernate I guess?
[04:13] <ogra> highvoltage, pmi
[04:13] <ogra> err hughsie 
[04:13] <mjg59> pmi action suspend force and pmi action hibernate force
[04:13] <hughsie> seb128, ogra: what path is pmu in?
[04:13] <ogra> hughsie, pmi capabilities shows whats available for the machine
[04:13] <seb128> /usr/sbin
[04:13] <mjg59> It's in /usr/sbin
[04:13] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, there was a detail... don't remember quite well "Download language support" was translated to pt_BR despite we have selected pt from the beggining.... there is still this issue...
[04:13] <hughsie> cheers guys
[04:14] <ogra> mjg59, hmm, force is undocumented it seems
[04:14] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I haven't uploaded your Portuguese translation of archive-copier yet; it's committed to my archive, but I tend to wait a while rather than make uploads with just one translation change
[04:15] <hughsie> mjg59: on elast question. does pmi let you set a low power state, a-la laptop mode?
[04:15] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, aah.. right :) 
[04:16] <pitti> Lathiat: thanks for the trac update, uploaded
[04:17] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: uploaded now
[04:17] <zyga> hello
[04:17] <Keybuk> spell checking is utterly rodneyed in openoffice.org2
[04:18] <pitti> Keybuk: you have interesting verbs...
[04:20] <Keybuk> why thankyou, I water them every day
[04:20] <hughsie> seb128: does pmi deal with laptopmode? ala powersaving?
[04:21] <seb128> hughsie: not a question for me
[04:23] <lamont> Setting up ntp-server (4.2.0a+stable-8ubuntu2) ...
[04:23] <lamont> Installing new version of config file /etc/init.d/ntp-server ...
[04:23] <lamont>  * Starting NTP server...                                                [ ok ] 
[04:23] <lamont> Setting up ntp-simple (4.2.0a+stable-8ubuntu2) ...
[04:23] <lamont>  * Stopping NTP server...                                                [ ok ] 
[04:23] <lamont>  * Starting NTP server...                                                [ ok ] 
[04:23] <hughsie> seb128: okay, n/p
[04:26] <mjg59> hughsie: It doesn't, no. It probably should do.
[04:26] <mjg59> hughsie: If you'd like to define something, I can implement that.
[04:26] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah - I should update the docs. "force" means that it'll go to that state even if the configuration file says not to.
[04:29] <hughsie> mjg59: well, i was just looking at how powersave does it.
[04:29] <hughsie> mjg59: just setting a few kernel variables == easy
[04:32] <elmo> ogra: ?
[04:36] <bddebian> OK, I think I'm too stupid to package pgtcl :-(
[04:36] <stratus> fabbione: it seems that ath_rate_onoe kernel module into 2.6.12-8-686 was compiled into 2.6.12-3-686 or i'm missing something.
[04:36] <stratus> fabbione: is it the latest?
[04:42] <doko> Diziet, Keybuk: diversion question: is dpkg supposed to remove a diverted file/symlink on package removal and purge?
[04:43] <lifeless> Diziet: tla ? 
[04:48] <Diziet> tla, yes.  Don't mind me, I'm just muttering to myself.
[04:49] <Diziet> doko: Do you mean is it supposed to remove A's /usr/bin/a which has been diverted to /usr/bin/a.b by B, when you purge A ?
[04:49] <Diziet> Or something else ?
[04:49] <Diziet> It might be clearer if you were less abstract :-).
[04:49] <Diziet> tla, in fact:
[04:50] <Diziet> struct rel_record { rel_field * _c; }
[04:50] <Diziet> va_arg (rp, rel_record)
[04:50] <stratus> php-banana has a nice short and full description
[04:50] <stratus> what's that?
[04:50] <Diziet> rel_add_records (&answer, /*...stuff...*/, 0);
[04:50] <doko> Diziet: yes, it does remove it, but I think, it's wrong
[04:50] <Diziet> 0 is not a valid value of type struct !
[04:51] <Diziet> Surely it should remove it ?  If you just installed B and it diverted /usr/bin/a to /usr/bin/a.b then you'd still not have a /usr/bin/a.b.  So surely after deinstalling A /usr/bin/a.b should be gone.
[04:51] <Diziet> Although diverted conffiles are known not to work properly.
[04:52] <Diziet> FSVO `properly'.  It's not clear what the semantics ought to be of attempting to divert a conffile.  `dpkg has detected that the package maintainer is on drugs.  Continue anyway ?'
[04:54] <doko> Diziet, wait elmo found the problem in another place, nothing to do with diversions ...
[04:55] <elmo> OGRA
[04:55] <ogra> elmo
[04:55] <ogra> whats wrong ? 
[04:55] <Keybuk> doko: I was conveniently sitting next-to-ish elmo
[04:55] <elmo> ogra: pls fix xscreensaver-data KTHXBYE
[05:00] <Diziet> Anyone here know anything about ppc calling conventions ?
[05:00] <Diziet> Is it the case that with a varargs function, int args and pointer args are passed differently ?
[05:03] <Diziet> This is going to be a big patch.
[05:04] <ogra> elmo, do you have a hint for me whats wrong with it ? 
[05:04] <elmo> ogra: missing Replaces: on xscreensaver
[05:05] <elmo> how on earth did you even manage to install test it?
[05:05] <ogra> elmo, replaces ?? its an additional package it shouldnt replace anything
[05:05] <pitti> sjoerd: here?
[05:05] <elmo> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xscreensaver-data_4.21-4ubuntu11_i386.deb (--unpack):
[05:05] <elmo>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man6/ant.6x.gz', which is also in package xscreensaver
[05:05] <elmo> ogra: ^---
[05:06] <ogra> hmm... there shouldnt be any manpages in xscreensaver for the hack... so i'll fix xscreensaver ... thanks, i had no such prob here while testing
[05:06] <elmo> ogra: dude.  you can't fix xscreensaver
[05:07] <elmo> I'm upgrading from xscreensaver_old-version; short of a time machine, that package is a done deal
[05:07] <Keybuk> xscreenserver-data needs a Replaces on xscreensaver
[05:07] <ogra> but i dont want to replace xscreensaver ... 
[05:07] <Lathiat> isnt it supposed to replaces << last version
[05:07] <pitti> but you do
[05:08] <Keybuk> ogra: you do
[05:08] <pitti> ogra: Replaces: does not (always) mean to replace the whole package
[05:08] <pitti> ogra: just replaces some files
[05:08] <ogra> err.. yup
[05:08] <Keybuk> Replaces != RPM Obsoletes
[05:08] <pitti> ogra: if you replace a whole package, you shuold additionally conflict to it
[05:08] <Keybuk> Replaces in dpkg means "I need to overwrite files"
[05:08] <ogra> sorry, i'm slow today it seems
[05:08] <Keybuk> Replaces+Conflicts is an "Obsoletes"
[05:08] <dholbach> elmo: could you pretty please sync  gnome-vfs  (the old one, universe) from sid?
[05:10] <Diziet> Joy.  173 calls to this function to be fixed.
[05:16] <ogra> ohhh, seb128 look at /apps/gnome-screensaver/themes :) we dont need to work around en/disabled screensavers apparently :)
[05:16] <ogra> how nice :)
[05:16] <elmo> dholbach: done
[05:16] <dholbach> elmo: merci beaucoup
[05:17] <seb128> ogra: right
[05:17] <dholbach> Mithrandir: thanks for that bug report
[05:18] <Diziet> (breezy-chroot)iwj@davis:~/tla-1.3.3$ find -name '*.c' | xargs ../fix-varargs rel_add_records rel_record_null 
[05:20] <linuxsbartley> Can anyone tell me who is the best person to talk to about cups on 5.04 server install. i.e. w/out gnome tools.
[05:20] <jdub> pitti
[05:21] <elmo> Diziet: are you working on the tla powerpc ftbs?
[05:21] <pitti> btw, since tla is orphaned upstream, shouldn't we drop it to universe?
[05:21] <elmo> Diziet: if so, maybe we should consider just demoting tla and tla-tools instead
[05:22] <lifeless> Diziet: its all fixed in baz. just ship baz.
[05:22] <lifeless> _seriously_
[05:22] <lifeless> I'm no at all biased here or anything.
[05:22] <Lathiat> of course not
[05:22] <lifeless> :)
[05:22] <linuxsbartley> I have an 5.04 server installed system.  I have added xfce4 and cups.  I want to be able to configure printers using the localhost:631 swat configuration.  By default, it wants the root user and password.  I have added a root password, restarted cups etc... still can not get cups to access admin functions.
[05:23] <occy> who would I talk to about what gets included as far as the firmware for the ipw2200 wireless network card into Breezy?
[05:23] <pitti> linuxsbartley: please try "sudo adduser cupsys shadow"
[05:23] <dholbach> whats up with the bug announce bot?
[05:23] <dholbach> who turned it off?
[05:23] <pitti> linuxsbartley: that makes cupsys able to read /etc/shadow and thus it can verify your password
[05:24] <pitti> linuxsbartley: it's in /usr/share/doc/cupsys/README.Debian
[05:24] <linuxsbartley> pitti, ok.  is there any security risk with that?
[05:24] <pitti> linuxsbartley: not an actual one, we just disabled it by default for proactive security
[05:24] <linuxsbartley> ok. cool. thx.
[05:24] <pitti> linuxsbartley: since on the desktop cupsys doesn't need it (privilege minimization)
[05:25] <occy> is this a support channel?
[05:25] <occy> heh
[05:25] <pitti> occy: no, #ubuntu is
[05:25] <occy> yeah, that's what I thought.
[05:25] <occy> just wondering if linuxsbartley's question is OT.  (no offense intended linuxsbartley)
[05:25] <pitti> of course we can't help ourselves and occasionally answer supportish questions here
[05:25] <linuxsbartley> sorry for the support type question.  #ubuntu did not have the details.
[05:26] <linuxsbartley> the why behind the how.
[05:26] <linuxsbartley> pitti, thx again.
[05:26] <pitti> linuxsbartley: you're welcome
[05:27] <occy> so, anyone know who to contact regarding firmware that gets shipped with a stable release?
[05:27] <occy> *crickets chirping*
[05:33] <dholbach> WOW, what happened to the gnome-screensaver preferences?
[05:34] <torkel> dholbach: you got all the xscreensaver hacks?
[05:35] <dholbach> seems so
[05:35] <occy> any of you guys developers?
[05:35] <sabdfl> ogra: whats with /apps/gnome-screensaver/themes
[05:35] <sabdfl> ?
[05:35] <\sh> occy: no ;)
[05:35] <occy> heh
[05:36] <occy> \sh, did you see my question?  re: firmware ?
[05:36] <occy> need to ascertain who maintains the ipw2200 firmware that is distro'ed with Ubuntu.
[05:36] <sabdfl> occy: BenC is kernel maintainer
[05:36] <\sh> occy: benc or fabbione 
[05:37] <dholbach> occy: do you look for this: /lib/modules/2.6.12-8-686/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/ipw2200/ipw2200.ko ?
[05:37] <occy> My main thing is that the default drivers shipped with Hoary for my card are ancient.
[05:37] <sabdfl> occy: could you test breezy, please?
[05:37] <occy> and I want to see if they'll include the update for breezy *heh*
[05:37] <occy> sabdfl, hmm, good point
[05:38] <sabdfl> i'm running breezy, how do i tell version number for you?
[05:38] <occy> well... I think it only pulls up if you have that type of card.
[05:38] <occy> ie,  dmesg |grep ipw2200 
[05:38] <occy> heh
[05:38] <Keybuk> apt-cache policy "package"
[05:38] <ogra> sabdfl, it holds the list of enabled screensavers ;) it wasnt there last tim i looked at the code :)
[05:38] <sabdfl> [4295068.858000]  ipw2100: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Driver, 1.1.2
[05:38] <Keybuk> gah,ww
[05:38] <occy> sabdfl, ahh you have the "same" card.
[05:39] <occy> (I think the 2100 is the brethren of the 2200)
[05:39] <sabdfl> occy: different driver
[05:39] <sabdfl> someone with a t42 will have to help you ;-)
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, well... 0.19 is what Hoary has.  
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, hehe
[05:39] <Diziet> elmo etc.: Yes, I'm fixing the tla ftbfs.  Should have it done this afternoon.
[05:39] <occy> np
[05:39] <sabdfl> occy: sec
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, any way we can find out what version breezy has via a file some place?
[05:39] <Diziet> Are we really messing about with ideas like `drop it and switch to baz' now ?
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, yessir
[05:40] <Diziet> Oh, and do we have any other code by the same author ?  It needs a review looking for misuse of 0 and the end of a varargs list.
[05:40] <Diziet> s/and the/at the
[05:40] <dholbach> Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:07:02 +0200: - Update ipw2200 to 1.0.6.
[05:41] <sabdfl> dholbach: even that's pretty old, isn't it?
[05:41] <sabdfl> BenC: ping
[05:41] <pitti> Diziet: well, bazaar is in Ubuntu main since hoary, so it's not really a "switch"
[05:41] <dholbach> sabdfl: to be honest, i have no idea - that's just what i found out in /usr/share/doc/linux-image-2.6.12-8-686/changelog.Debian.gz
[05:41] <occy> dholbach, wow
[05:42] <occy> dholbach, that's in breezy?
[05:42] <dholbach> occy: yep
[05:42] <pitti> Diziet: the question is just whether we should support a package for 18 months that has a good replacement and is orphaned upstream
[05:42] <occy> dholbach, kick ass
[05:42] <occy> oops, sorry for cursing
[05:42] <dholbach> :-D
[05:43] <sabdfl> occy: (16:42:52) cvd: sabdfl: [4319191.367000]  ipw2200: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200/2915 Network Driver, 1.0.4
[05:43] <occy> hmm
[05:43] <occy> that's cool... that's what I have now via some howto.
[05:44] <dholbach> occy: you should try the livecd - that should give you the info most easily
[05:44] <Diziet> pitti: Is that the question ?  The answer to that is probably `no'.  But also, the answer to `should we remove stuff from main at this stage' is probably `no' too.
[05:44] <occy> dholbach, that's a good idea too... 
[05:44] <Keybuk> I suspect the fact we ship tla in main is an accident
[05:44] <occy> Well, thank you guys.  I do appreciate your time.  I don't want to clog up the channel with my stuff :)
[05:44] <sabdfl> that's pretty old
[05:44] <sabdfl> Diziet: we put stuff in main that we want to support for 18 months
[05:45] <occy> I just wanted to make sure someone was working on updating the drivers.
[05:45] <sabdfl> do you think tla should qualify?
[05:45] <occy> as usual, Ubuntu is on top of things.
[05:45] <occy> :)
[05:45] <sabdfl> occy: 1.0.4 is not the latest
[05:45] <pitti> Diziet: I don't see a problem with it, we are even putting stuff into main still; but it was just a suggestion to direct our working power into sensible fields
[05:45] <occy> sabdfl, well, it's better than 0.19
[05:45] <sabdfl> but i believe there was a problem with 1.06, so we've rolled back
[05:45] <Diziet> Oh, right.  This code is rather bad.  How's baz ?
[05:45] <occy> sabdfl, yah, that's what I've read.
[05:45] <sabdfl> Diziet: baz is much better. but even that is EOL'd
[05:46] <sabdfl> i think we should have baz in main, tla in universe for breezy
[05:46] <Diziet> I see.  Um, we should support something along these lines.  Can baz publish tla format changes ?  (Sorry, I'm a bit behind on this kind of stuff.)
[05:46] <sabdfl> Diziet: baz can read them
[05:46] <pitti> Diziet: yes, it can
[05:46] <sabdfl> ok
[05:46] <pitti> Diziet: you can even create tla archives with it
[05:46] <pitti> (and commit to them, of course)
[05:46] <Diziet> If it can write them then baz is just a replacement for tla with less bad code, which sounds good to me.
[05:47] <Diziet> I'll finish off this ftbfs though.
[05:47] <lifeless> why ?
[05:47] <pitti> Diziet: the UI is different (better mostly), but it is archive-compativle
[05:47] <Diziet> Well, I'm 80% through it.
[05:48] <lifeless> there is a patch on the list
[05:49] <lifeless> its just a nonsense size promotion bug
[05:49] <lifeless> tom kept doing that again and again
[05:49] <lifeless> 0 != (void *)0
[05:49] <Diziet> No, it's not just size promotion.  He's also got   struct { foo*; }  which he varargs for but he passes just  `0'.
[05:50] <lifeless> yes
[05:52] <Keybuk> hmm, are we going to keep support for baz for 18 months?
[05:52] <sabdfl> Keybuk: we more or less have to
[05:52] <Diziet> What do we have to replace it with ?
[05:53] <sabdfl> it won't be in dapper/main, but bzr is NRY
[05:56] <jsgotangco> hey guys, i just came home after speaking about ubuntu and edubuntu in linuxworld philippines. Guess what, I actually WON an RHCE training and exam pack..hehehehe
[05:57] <Diziet> Is bzr going to read and write tla format archives ?
[05:57] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: nice going
[05:57] <Lathiat> see, you speak about ubuntu, and they try to convert you!
[05:57] <Lathiat> ;)
[05:57] <sabdfl> Diziet: no
[05:57] <sabdfl> there will be a conversion tool
[05:58] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: yeah, people are really hyped about edubuntu anyways (the goverment people actually came)..it was our first linuxworld even in the country
[06:00] <Diziet> sabdfl: Hmm.  I think that means we're going to have to support either tla or baz (so, baz) for quite a while.
[06:00] <sabdfl> Diziet: baz it is then
[06:01] <sabdfl> Keybuk: could you get the seeds right for tla -> universe, baz -> main, and bzr -> main for breezy, please?
[06:01] <Diziet> I'll take tla out of the seeds for breezy.
[06:01] <sabdfl> cool, thanks
[06:02] <elmo> sabdfl: baz is already in main
[06:02] <elmo> bzr would need a main inclusion report
[06:02] <sabdfl> elmo: cool, thakns
[06:02] <elmo> Diziet: be sure to kill it in edubuntu and kubuntu too
[06:03] <sabdfl> lifeless: we need to coordinate the latest-best bzr into breezy, please
[06:03] <elmo> sabdfl: cvd is making "WTF isn't he packing" noises ;-)
[06:03] <lifeless> sabdfl: next week ok? about to release 0.0.8
[06:04] <lifeless> sabdfl: so wednesdayish would be good
[06:04] <jdub> bzr in main sounds a bit wonky
[06:04] <sabdfl> elmo: cvd is so NEW around here
[06:04] <sabdfl> lifeless: sounds fine
[06:05] <sabdfl> jdub: yeah, i could live without it
[06:05] <sabdfl> but perhaps its something we would be happy to push new versions into updates for
[06:05] <sabdfl> we know its moving very fast at the moment
[06:05] <sabdfl> and we know we would like it to be widespread
[06:06] <Keybuk> elmo just broke down in tears
[06:06] <jdub> lifeless: is bzr in the bazaar.canonical.com repo? might be better to point breezy users there while it's in RADICAL DEVELOPMENT phase :)
[06:06] <sabdfl> so getting it in, then making newer versions available through updates (it has minimal dependencies) would work
[06:06] <lifeless> it won't be stable till month or two after brezzy goes out
[06:06] <lifeless> jdub: not yet, may do so once things get a bit more formalish
[06:06] <lifeless> jdub: jbailey has that for you
[06:07] <jdub> jbailey has all the new hotness
[06:09] <jbailey> jdub: I don't have the sources.list bit to put in handy.
[06:09] <jbailey> But you want bzr and bzrtools from it. =)
[06:09] <jdub> heh
[06:09] <jdub> 'sok
[06:09] <jdub> might be a little while before i start using it in anger
[06:10] <jbailey> jdub: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr ./
[06:11] <jbailey> jdub: What were you pinging about with the evms root?
[06:12] <jbailey> jdub: If you'r doing that, you need my new initramfs love in my people directory.
[06:12] <jdub> ah, bummer.
[06:12] <jdub> i reverted to md after evms was giving me hassles (over and above lack of current initramfs support)
[06:12] <jbailey> Yeah, so far evms doesn't much love me either.
[06:13] <jdub> evmsn was segfaulting and stuff too
[06:13] <jbailey> But I can boot with /dev/evms/lvm2/Ubuntu/root as my root now. =)
[06:13] <jdub> elite
[06:14] <jdub> i'm going to muck around with it on another machine though, something less... mission critical (ie. does not host pipka's mail)
[06:14] <Lathiat> is this the kind of thing we want to be installed by default? ;)
[06:14] <jdub> well, it's not used by default
[06:15] <jdub> and we've only just scored autosetup of lvm (sans evms)
[06:16] <sabdfl> mdz: ping
[06:17] <jdub> (though i wouldn't be too excited about putting evms on a "WOW FEATURES!" list any time soon)
[06:17] <Keybuk> but it's soooo shiiiny
[06:18] <sabdfl> who knows about the post-update notes?
[06:18] <sabdfl> jbailey: ?
[06:18] <sabdfl> can we make it detect dups and not show them?
[06:18] <ogra> sabdfl, mvo ?
[06:18] <sabdfl> mvo: ^?
[06:18] <mvo> sabdfl: here
[06:19] <mvo> sabdfl: dups like two identical kernel notifications?
[06:19] <elmo> can we make it not show the language pack stuff too
[06:19] <sabdfl> mvo: thats the badger
[06:19] <mvo> elmo: what's wrong with the language pack notification?
[06:19] <Diziet> Hmm.  Are we going to pull tla-tools ?  It turns out that tla is in main because of tla-tools.
[06:20] <elmo> mvo: I think it's horribly confusing and meaningless to the average user
[06:20] <elmo> Diziet: yes
[06:20] <Diziet> I assume; I haven't checked the germinate output.
[06:20] <elmo> Diziet: we should drop tla-doc too
[06:20] <Diziet> tla-tools look like they'd be useful with baz too, or am I mistaken ?
[06:20] <mvo> sabdfl: can you please mail me the content of you /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/?
[06:20] <Diziet> tla-doc> Quite so.
[06:20] <sabdfl> mvo: notification-2.6.12-8-386  notification-2.6.12-8-686
[06:21] <sabdfl> 3/686
[06:21] <mvo> elmo: update-notifier is just the message here, but I think the message should be reworded to "run language-selector" (it will detect the needed actions
[06:21] <mvo> sabdfl: thanks, I'll work on it
[06:22] <mvo> elmo: arg, that should read "is just the messenger..."
[06:22] <elmo> mvo: yeah, sorry, I wasn't having a go at you, just the message :)
[06:23] <bddebian> w00t, at least I finally got pgtcl to run configure. Sheesh
[06:23] <mvo> elmo: sure :) I'll bug pitti about it when I see him next time
[06:25] <jbailey> sabdfl: post-update?
[06:26] <mvo> jbailey: I take care of it, no worries
[06:26] <jbailey> Thanks.
[06:37] <Diziet> baz--
[06:45] <lifeless> Diziet: lock-revision <give it a 'version'>
[06:45] <lifeless> Diziet: it still accepts revisions, but it has a DWIM mode
[06:48] <sabdfl> cheers all. a week's holiday. omg, i don't know if i'll be able to stop lunchpadding
[06:48] <sabdfl> ADDICT
[06:49] <ogra> sabdfl, enjoy the weekend (especially sunday)
[06:49] <dholbach> sabdfl: have a nice weekend :)
[06:49] <sabdfl> thanks guys
[06:50] <Diziet> lifeless: No, the problem is that if my commit bombs out halfway through (eg, because my signature program broke), it leaves the lock in the repo.  Barmy !
[06:50] <Diziet> Kamion told me to use lock-revision -b to break the lock again, which `fixes' it.
[06:50] <lifeless> Diziet: for the ancestry file yes, unloikely to fix that one.
[06:54] <dilinger> ah, memories of tla/baz
[06:59] <mdz> morning
[06:59] <elmo> ogra: why did you add Conflicts?
[06:59] <bddebian> Hello mdz
[07:00] <ogra> elmo, isnt that common ? 
[07:00] <mdz> jdub: yes, my evms machine is breezy
[07:01] <elmo> ogra: it's unneeded and causes dpkg to do the Wrong Thing
[07:01] <jdub> mdz: have you used evmsn much, or is it all set up and rolling ok? (i assume with jbailey's evms-enabled initramfs stuff)
[07:02] <mdz> jdub: I use it sometimes, more often evmsgui
[07:02] <mdz> jdub: no, I don't use evms root here
[07:02] <jdub> aha
[07:09] <ogra> elmo, i'll fix it in the next upload, i dont think it does any harm currently..
[07:10] <bob2> wtf
[07:11] <bob2> the upstream mozilla crash agent thing uses motif
[07:11] <ogra> mvo, dont you think 14944 is an X issue ?
[07:13] <mvo> ogra: I don't think so
[07:13] <ogra> if the screen is locked, nothing should leak through... 
[07:14] <ogra> you cant patch all the notification apps..
[07:14] <mvo> it should be enough to patch notification-daemon
[07:15] <ogra> what about zenity notifications for example... 
[07:15] <mvo> i "just" need to know when the screensaver is active
[07:15] <mvo> how does zenity do it's notifications?
[07:16] <ogra> zenity --notification --text "blah"
[07:16] <ogra> try it
[07:16] <ogra> hmm, it doest show bubbles...
[07:16] <ogra> doesnt 
[07:17] <ogra> mvo, forget it :)
[07:17] <bob2> it doesn't seem to do anything but add a tray icon
[07:17] <mdz> ogra: what is the purpose of xscreensaver-data?
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, it holds the hacks
[07:17] <mvo> ogra: :)
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, we can drop xscreensaver 
[07:17] <mdz> ogra: then it's not data, but programs?
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, yes
[07:17] <mdz> ...
[07:26] <mdz> Diziet: I filed a bug about that ages ago
[07:31] <Diziet> mdz: The baz lockfile problem ?  Yes, I assumed it was known.
[07:31] <Diziet> But while you're here:@
[07:31] <Diziet> s/\@//
[07:32] <Diziet> This kernel-package dependency bug you passed on to me, 15488.
[07:32] <Diziet> Which kernels do not compile with our current default gcc-4 ?
[07:32] <ogra> Diziet, all ?
[07:32] <Diziet> The bug report suggests that just adding a dependency will DTRT but the actual kernel sources don't seem to go out of their way to select a different compiler.
[07:33] <Diziet> ogra: I was worried it might be something along those lines :-).
[07:33] <ogra> Diziet, the kernel is gcc3.4 afaik
[07:33] <\sh> *yawn* that was good
[07:34] <mdz> Diziet: the kernel sources ought to have gcc-3.4 in the makefile
[07:34] <mdz> Diziet: the headers do
[07:35] <\sh> mdz: g'evening :) I hope u had a good sleep :)
[07:35] <Diziet> Not all kernels have gcc-3.4 in the makefile, just recent ones, AIUI.
[07:35] <mdz> Diziet: it's OK with me that since there will be no kernel in breezy which builds correctly with the default gcc, that  kernel-package in breezy assume that any -source package it builds will need gcc-3.4
[07:36] <mdz> Diziet: well, in Hoary, the kernel built with the default gcc
[07:36] <mdz> but breezy kernels have used a non-default compiler ever since 4.0 became default, early in the cycle
[07:36] <mdz> \sh: not bad
[07:36] <mdz> I would have liked to have slept longer
[07:36] <Diziet> Right, yes, obviously it should depend on whatever it wants to build with.  But AFAICT the machinery for making it use the right compiler isn't perfect.
[07:37] <\sh> mdz: I know this feeling :) 
[07:38] <mdz> Diziet: if there are bugs there, we should fix them.  is there something specific it isn't doing yet?
[07:38] <\sh> mdz: did u read the backlog about amarok 1.3.x and sabdfls wish to include it, cause community wants it? 
[07:39] <Diziet> Well, what I did was: downloaded our current kernel-package .dsc and unpacked and built it.  Installed the resulting .deb.  Unpacked a stock linux 2.6.13.1, cd'd into it.  Said  make-kpkg kernel-image.   It's using `gcc'.
[07:39] <Diziet> So either (a) 2.6.13.1 is OK with 4.0 (which I thought wasn't the case) or (b) at the very least make-kpkg should pick the right compiler.
[07:40] <mdz> Diziet: (b)
[07:40] <Diziet> Right.  So it's not just a dependency problem.  NP, I can fix it.  I just wanted to check that I wasn't confused, because the bug report suggested just changing the deps would help.
[07:40] <Diziet> As an aside, how do our own kernel-image packages get built ?
[07:41] <Diziet> Do we have some weird systems with gcc symlinked to gcc-3.4 or something ?
[07:42] <Diziet> I'll go ask in #ubuntu-kernel.
[07:49] <mdz> Diziet: well, the bug report was about what happened when someone installed linux-headers, linux-source, etc. and then tried to use them
[07:50] <mdz> Diziet: they can't be used without gcc-3.4
[07:50] <Diziet> Right.  But even if you have gcc-3.4 installed you have to know to give the build special flags.  That's probably OK for the source package, which you're supposed to use if you know what you're going.
[07:50] <doko> Diziet: no weired symlinks
[07:51] <Diziet> But it's no good for the make-kpkg kernel-image, which is supposed to be at least mostly automatic.
[07:51] <Diziet> So it's done in our diff ?  We patch the toplevel Makefile to select the right compiler ?
[07:52] <mdz> Diziet: you shouldn't need to specify anything special, at least with linux-headers.  it has HOSTCC=gcc-3.4
[07:52] <mdz> I don't know how it works
[07:52] <mdz> it wasn't the case in the past and I was going to file a bug about it when I noticed it had already been changed
[07:53] <Diziet> Right, if you get the linux-source package from archive.ubuntu, and untar it and cd into it, it will DTRT.
[07:53] <Diziet> But if you get a stock kernel from kernel.org and untar it and make-kpkg it will DTWT.
[07:53] <mdz> good
[07:53] <mdz> apparently
[07:53] <mdz> but that's a separate issue
[07:53] <Diziet> Well, yes, but if I'm editing kernel-package I could fix both.
[07:53] <mdz> if it's straightforward
[07:54] <Diziet> Looks it.  I can see the bit where it picks `gcc'.
[07:54] <Diziet> I want to do people this favour because miscompiled kernels are a bad rathole for novices.
[07:56] <mdz> sure, just don't let it block the other fix
[07:56] <\sh> mdz: so the question is, if we're allowed to break the freeze to bring amarok-1.3.1 into breezy
[07:56] <mdz> \sh: we already had this conversation on ubuntu-devel...has something changed?
[07:56] <mdz> is it still a beta or is it a final release?
[07:56] <\sh> mdz: final
[07:57] <ogra> mdz, i dont think -data is the wrong name, even if its binary data, it gets installed in /usr/lib/xscreensaver and gets executed by the screensaver app
[07:57] <mdz> \sh: does anything depend on it?  does it have the potential to break anything other than amarok?
[07:57] <\sh> mdz: no..no new deps 
[07:57] <\sh> mdz: nothing which depends on amarok
[07:58] <mdz> \sh: ok, let's do it
[07:58] <mdz> plenty of time to back it out if necessary
[07:58] <\sh> mdz: thx...
[07:59] <jbailey> lamont: Shouldn't uname -m under linux32 return 'parisc' for you?
[07:59] <jbailey> lamont: I thought that it always returned the 32bit variant (Isn't that the point?)
[08:01] <cepear> hi ppl
[08:01] <dholbach> hey cepear 
[08:01] <cepear> somebody tried breezy/amd64 with nvidia?
[08:02] <cepear> I own a 5200 fx and I can't make it work with latests kernels
[08:03] <cepear> well, the nvidia module loads, which doesn't starts up is X
[08:26] <mdz> ogra: so we are ready for gnome-screensaver now?
[08:27] <ogra> mdz, yup
[08:27] <sivang> hey all, is there anybody to sponser me on a gnome-panel fix? (make lpi integration consistent with mpt's  spces..
[08:27] <sivang> bah, this irssi + gnome-terminal is annonying
[08:28] <ogra> mdz, sabdfl still wanted to have some changes to the lock window, mtp is preparing tham, but we should change the seeds asap i think
[08:28] <ogra> s/tham/them
[08:28] <bob2> xterm it u
[08:28] <mdz> ogra: can gnome-screensaver conflict with xscreensaver now?
[08:28] <mdz> otherwise upgrades will get both
[08:28] <ogra> mdz, it only needs xscreensaver-data, i can make it conflict
[08:29] <mdz> sivang: perhaps \sh can help
[08:30] <\sh> sivang: what?
[08:30] <sivang> mdz: thx
[08:31] <\sh> sivang: whats your problem?
[08:32] <mdz> \sh: he's looking for someone to sponsor an upload to main, see above
[08:32] <\sh> mdz: if it's ok with you and seb128 sure
[08:32] <sivang> \sh: yep :-) I need to do a small fix for gnome-panel which was already discussed with seb128 and mpt, I Want to know if you could sponser my upload
[08:32] <mdz> I haven't seen the code
[08:33] <sivang> mdz: that's just dropping the context menu patching from the applets, and leave it for the panel alone
[08:42] <sivang> mpt: around?
[08:48] <whiprush> Sweet! Bouncing cow in gnome-screensaver!
[08:49] <ogra> yes, we still need to disable a lot
[08:51] <torkel> ogra: #316462 is the bug I filed in b.gnome.org re disabling themes in gnome-screensaver (in case you are intrested)
[08:51] <ogra> torkel, i already found the gconf key, but thanks )
[08:51] <ogra> :)
[08:52] <torkel> ogra: :-)
[08:54] <torkel> ogra: you "only" have to hack the preferences to change the key then? :-)
[08:54] <ogra> we'll just provide a default setting for the key in the package ;)
[08:56] <jdub> mdz: whoa, we're shipping gnome-screensaver?
[09:02] <mdz> jdub: seb128, ogra and sabdfl are all behind it
[09:03] <jdub> ... so who swapped the release management juice for the SHINY juice? :-)
[09:05] <Surak> Hello, I'm having an odd issue with debian-installer.
[09:06] <Riddell> kdebluetooth is on the kubuntu CD but it doesn't get installed, why could that be?
[09:07] <Surak> In live cd's boot, if i type live debian-installer/locale=pt_BR , it will not work. But if I set the locale to es, it works. This live cd already have the pt langpack...
[09:08] <mdz> jdub: guess
[09:08] <jdub> haha
[09:11] <Surak> What can be wrong?
[09:13] <Surak> Are the language-pack-pt and language-pack-pt-base enough for d-i? Or there are different stuff for this?
[09:13] <bob2> bold fonts in xterm look fucked
[09:14] <Riddell> Surak: live CD ubuntu breezy doesn't ship -pt language packs on i386 according to the seeds
[09:15] <Surak> Yes Riddell. This is a custom cd, with both packages installed. 
[09:15] <\sh> bob2: gnarf..that's why daniels didn't want to deal with it anymore..now my ass is fcked
[09:16] <Riddell> Surak: then you also need the language-pack-gnome-pt and language-pack-gnome-base-pt
[09:17] <Surak> but my problem is before gnome. What happens is nothing when I type that d-i command at boot time.
[09:17] <Surak> d-i seems to ignore it when I type it with pt_BR. It will ask me language and keyboard. If I set for instance to "es" locale, it will ask me nothing.
[09:18] <seb128> \sh, sivang: what?
[09:18] <Surak> Riddel: and both packages are installed.
[09:18] <\sh> seb128: sivang whats to have a sponsor for his gnome-panel lpi patch
[09:19] <\sh> seb128: when u r available, you can deal with him :)
[09:19] <seb128> \sh: has somebody reviewed the patch?
[09:19] <seb128> \sh: nobody pinged me :p
[09:20] <sivang> seb128: I wasn't aware you are still here, I will post a debdiff in a sec.
[09:21] <bob2> NM doesn't do wpa?
[09:21] <whiprush> nope
[09:21] <bob2> suck
[09:22] <\sh> seb128: mdz mentioned it...but I never seen a piece of code
[09:22] <dholbach> wifi-radar recommends wpasupplicant though
[09:23] <\sh> why the hell...gdm is depending on xterm?
[09:23] <dholbach> \sh: because you can have a term-session-login-only-thing-too
[09:27] <\sh> dholbach: i see...*grmpf*
[09:28] <ogra> mdz, #3044 would introduce two additional packages (sabdfl wanted xscreensaver-extras) do we really want that ?
[09:29] <doko> elmo, fabbione: please could I have 2Gig disk space on concordia?
[09:29] <ogra> mdz, its possible to make a preselectin in a gconf key for gnome-screensaver, the only issue is diskspace
[09:29] <fabbione> doko: checking right now
[09:30] <\sh> dholbach: funny thing that xterms behaviour is completly different in gnome then running e.g. fluxbox...
[09:30] <fabbione> doko: keep an eye on a rm -rf process with my user..
[09:30] <\sh> have to investigate
[09:30] <ogra> mdz, since we separate gl and non gl we'd have: xscreensaver-data (non-gl), xscreensaver-gl, xscreensaver-extras, xscreensaver-extras-gl
[09:30] <fabbione> doko: when it's done there will be 3.5G free
[09:30] <seb128> \sh: due to xrdb?
[09:30] <fabbione> but it's all ccache.. do it will take some time
[09:31] <\sh> seb128: du u think xterm +ls is xrdb?
[09:31] <doko> fabbione: thanks
[09:31] <mdz> ogra: note that I removed the 5.10 milestone from that bug
[09:31] <ogra> mdz, oh, ok
[09:31] <fabbione> doko: np
[09:31] <\sh> seb128: or export PROMPT_COMMAND= ; xterm +ls == set title to whatever but not xterm?
[09:31] <\sh> seb128: which should be the default
[09:32] <\sh> seb128: but I will check this just now with fluxbox ;) 
[09:32] <\sh> or kde
[09:32] <seb128> \sh: no, xrdb just change the style: color, etc
[09:32] <\sh> seb128: no...xrdb can tell xterm to behave as loginshell or not..but cli switches should have higher prio
[09:33] <mdz> Diziet: who said that tla is being demoted to universe?
[09:33] <\sh> seb128: but it's not working just like it should
[09:40] <lamont> jbailey: dunno... just reporting what it does...
[09:43] <mdz> l-r-m is larger than the kernel itself
[09:43] <mdz> that is so evil
[09:44] <sivang> wow
[09:45] <seb128> mdke: what bar?
[09:46] <seb128> mdke: ctrl-L ?
[09:46] <occy> is there a reason why dma = on isn't set for /dev/cdrom by default when Ubuntu ships?
[09:53] <mdke> seb128, yeah, that one
[09:53] <mdke> seb128, what happened to it?
[09:54] <mdke> occy, yes, there is an enormous bug about it in bugzilla, check it out
[09:54] <seb128> mdke: still working here
[09:54] <mdke> seb128, it works now I pressed ctrl L :) Not before that though
[09:56] <seb128> mdke: you have a bar of button like the fileselector one
[09:56] <mdke> yeah
[09:56] <mdke> and until you told me ctrl L, I couldn't figure out from the menus how to get my address bar back
[10:01] <ogra> jbailey, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/edu_usplash.png
[10:02] <jbailey> ogra: Show off. =)
[10:02] <ogra> :)
[10:03] <mdke> not to rant or anything, but does it bother anyone else that this ctrl L nautilus behaviour is not available from the menu?
[10:04] <ogra> which menu ?
[10:04] <mdke> any menu
[10:04] <mdke> but I would have thought it would be trivial to have it accessible from the View menu
[10:04] <ogra> mdke, its in the "go" menu
[10:05] <\sh> gnarf
[10:05] <ogra> L = Location
[10:05] <mdke> oh how irritating
[10:05] <mdke> thanks anyway
[10:06] <mdke> the "Location bar" entry in the View menu is quite confusing then
[10:07] <ogra> hmm, it should probably be called "path bar" but the place is right
[10:10] <mdke> ogra, so am I right to say that I can't turn on my address bar permanently? I have to press ctrl L every time?
[10:10] <ogra> yup
[10:10] <mdke> man that sucks
[10:12] <jay>  /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_location_entry
[10:12] <jay> If set to true, then Nautilus browser windows will always use a textual input entry for the location toolbar, instead of the pathbar. 
[10:12] <mdke> jay, it's not in the preferences menu?
[10:13] <jay> mdke: doesn't look like it.  you know GNOMEites and their preferences ;)
[10:13] <mdke> man that sucks
[10:13] <mdke> users aren't supposed to play around in gconf-editor
[10:14] <jay> what user is going to want to ctrl-l and type in their location? ;)
[10:14] <jay> it's not GNOME's target
[10:15] <jay> audience.  but it's in gconf for advanced people to change
[10:16] <mdke> it's a browser
[10:16] <mdke> firefox has an address bar
[10:16] <ogra> its a file manager ;)
[10:16] <mdke> in browser mode?
[10:16] <ogra> its still a file manager
[10:17] <mdke> anyhow, it's all a matter of opinion
[10:17] <cavediver> Sorry to disturb. But where do I report bugs? It seems gnome-terminal bluescreens with screen from time to time. And no - that's not a joke :P
[10:17] <mdke> all I would have liked is the option to turn it on in the preferences
[10:17] <mdke> cavediver, see the topic, bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[10:17] <Lathiat> cavediver: heh, let me guess, irssi & screen right?
[10:17] <cavediver> l
[10:17] <cavediver> Lathiat: yes
[10:17] <\sh> bob2: can u do me a favour?
[10:17] <cavediver> mdke: ohh sorry. Will file it there then.
[10:17] <Lathiat> cavediver: long standing bug in vte, theres a bug open somewhere at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
[10:18] <cavediver> Ok, so no bug-filing for me then :)
[10:18] <Lathiat> cavediver: hitting ^L will refresh.. but it'l only go back, i just ahve to restart the terminal :\ not much to do, it sucks. 
[10:18] <jay> only happens when you use tabs iirc
[10:19] <Lathiat> jay: nah
[10:19] <Lathiat> jay: it just happens more often when you use tabs
[10:19] <jay> oh lol
[10:19] <Lathiat> also if you change font/theme/something it gtriggers it
[10:19] <cavediver> I use no tabs.
[10:19] <Lathiat> cavediver: so yeh, dont change fonts, themes, or anything, dont use tabs (only on the window you use irssi with) and uh, pray to the gods
[10:19] <jay> lol
[10:19] <cavediver> Lathiat: well.. maybe in 2.14 it will be fixed :)
[10:20] <jay> you could use another terminal like aterm or xterm
[10:20] <cavediver> I like gnome-terminal in fact, even though it is a total memory eating application
[10:20] <cavediver> Although it uses much less resources in 2.12
[10:20] <Lathiat> anyway this is a little offtopic now
[10:20] <\sh> we are in serious trouble  ;)
[10:21] <Lathiat> \sh: ?
[10:21] <cavediver> Yeah sorry. Thanks for your answer anyway.
[10:21] <cavediver> bye
[10:21] <stockholm> elmo: ping
[10:21] <\sh> ok...I just checked some xterm/rxvt/aterm (will be checked now)
[10:21] <Lathiat> checking them for what?
[10:21] <\sh> any of these terminals are honoring the `-T "Title"` cli switch
[10:22] <\sh> anymore...cause something is causing it to override 
[10:22] <ogra> whhe, \sh thats really release critical
[10:22] <\sh> with $PROMPT_COMMAND
[10:22] <\sh> ogra: it's not the default...and shouldn't happen.
[10:22] <\sh> and I don't know what the cause is...export PROMPT_COMMAND="" doesn't help
[10:23] <ogra> but serious trouble is something else :)
[10:23] <\sh> and actually it will override as well the `-n "icon title"`
[10:23] <\sh> ogra: well I have to fix those bugs and I don't really know where to search
[10:23] <Lathiat> \sh: bash will be updating it
[10:23] <Lathiat> \sh: note that it will change as you change directory etc
[10:24] <\sh> Lathiat: but only via PROMPT_COMMAND
[10:24] <\sh> Lathiat: and PROMPT_COMMAND is disabled, actually empty
[10:24] <Lathiat> \sh: sure, but since its in /etc/bashrc, it still has it when you launch the xterm
[10:24] <Lathiat>  /etc/bash.bashrc
[10:24] <\sh> Lathiat: running xterm from cli and exporting prompt_command before that has higher prio then /etc/bashrc
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: uh... why?
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: when you run bash inside the xterm it will read /etc/bashrc
[10:25] <\sh> Lathiat: /etc/bash* are only defaults when ~/.bashrc is not there
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: which will overwrite the environment it inherited from the parent terminal
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: its in .bashrc too, i assume from /etc/skel
[10:25] <\sh> Lathiat: xterm +ls == no login shell
[10:26] <\sh> .bashrc / /etc/bashrc should be read when it's loginshell right?
[10:26] <\sh> Lathiat: in the early days this was the default
[10:27] <Lathiat> \sh: it should read both afaik (tho its /etc/bash.bashrc), unless it is a login shell (not not a login shell)
[10:28] <\sh> Lathiat: but it shouldn't read it when I start it with +ls , which means, accordingly to man xterm, no login shell
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: a login shell means its a "new login" shell, e.g. when you open from minicom
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: and that woudl be -ls, +ls means not to
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: iirc login shells read /etc/bash_profile, .bash_profile
[10:29] <\sh> Lathiat: yes...and "no login shell" should not read them, right?
[10:29] <Lathiat>  /etc/profile rather
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: /etc/profile sources /etc/bash.bashrc
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: so no, it shouldn't, but yes, because its done explicitly
[10:30] <Lathiat> yes, in our case
[10:30] <\sh> no wonder
[10:31] <\sh> bangshishead
[10:32] <Lathiat> :)
[10:32] <\sh> this is a complete wrong behaviour
[10:32] <Lathiat> \sh: whats wrong?
[10:33] <\sh> how can I fix this without annoying some people
[10:33] <Lathiat> \sh: fix "what" exacly
[10:34] <Lathiat> \sh: the fact you cant set the title ?
[10:34] <\sh> Lathiat: it shouldn't do that...when the user tells xterm to use -T "his title" it should be "his title" and not our stuff
[10:35] <Lathiat> its a bit tricky
[10:36] <\sh> Lathiat: but more difficult is this: even the "-n" switch is just like this...so -T + -n == wrong (-n == icon name ==> gets the -T title which is $PROMPT_COMMAND)
[10:38] <\sh> and it's the bloody default bash.bashrc
[10:40] <Lathiat> how does that one work
[10:41] <\sh> Lathiat: -n "b0rkness" should show you in the icon bar the icon title "b0rkness"
[10:41] <mpt> sivang: pong
[10:41] <\sh> Lathiat: but setting PROMPT_COMMAND will override this setting as well, the same as with -T
[10:43] <Lathiat> hrm
[10:43] <\sh> Lathiat: I just removed the PROMPT_COMMAND setting in my .bashrc and in the global bash.bashrc
[10:43] <Lathiat> -T works fine then
[10:43] <Lathiat> \sh: where do you get the list of available icon names
[10:45] <\sh> Lathiat: no not icon name it's an icon title...you see in gnome the "icon bar" ...there is left the icon and next to the icon is the title of the window...so -n set this title explicitly
[10:45] <Lathiat> \sh: ohhh, i see
[10:46] <Lathiat> window title vs windowbar title
[10:46] <mvo> does anyone of you have a runing hoary at hand?
[10:46] <Lathiat> mvo: i do
[10:46] <Lathiat> mvo: gui or !gui ?
[10:47] <mvo> Lathiat: does the hoary version of synaptic already has "File/History" ?
[10:47] <Lathiat> hang a sec
[10:50] <siretart> Diziet: around?
[10:54] <\sh> Lathiat: I have a workaround
[10:54] <Lathiat> \sh: which is?
[10:55] <\sh> Lathiat: case in /etc/profile...asking for xterm*|rxvt*) and then for "if [ $COLORTERM == "gnome-terminal" ] ; then # set PROMPT_COMMAND fi 
[10:55] <\sh> Lathiat: if it's not gnome-terminal then don't do anything...and remove the xterm case from bash.bashrc
[10:55] <\sh> Lathiat: just tested
[10:55] <Lathiat> \sh: well, thats arguable
[10:56] <\sh> Lathiat: it's a better solution for users using xterm as in old times ;)
[10:56] <Lathiat> sure, but it breaks people wanting titles now
[10:56] <Lathiat> (like i said, arguable ;)
[10:57] <Lathiat> mvo: yes
[10:57] <Lathiat> mvo: there is a file->history
[10:57] <mvo> Lathiat: thanks!
[10:57] <\sh> Lathiat: doesn't work :(
[10:58] <Lathiat> \sh: what doesn't?
[10:58] <\sh> Lathiat: moment...ah that's why...
[10:59] <\sh> Lathiat: sorry..it works :)
[11:01] <\sh> Lathiat: there must be a solution to choose
[11:01] <\sh> Lathiat: and the solution is to set it in .bashrc for the user 
[11:02] <\sh> and leave the global stuff without the PROMPT_COMMAND
[11:02] <Lathiat> i like that solution
[11:02] <Lathiat> leave it out of /etc/bash.bashrc, leave in /etc/skel
[11:02] <Lathiat> its not a complete solution however
[11:04] <\sh> Lathiat: it's better then to have the global stuff
[11:04] <cogumbreiro> lo all
[11:04] <\sh> doko: ping
[11:07] <doko> \sh: pong
[11:07] <\sh> doko: bash.bashrc and PROMPT_COMMAND will override everytime -T / -n switches from xterm 
[11:07] <\sh> doko: can we remove this, and put it only in /etc/skel/.bashrc for the user...
[11:08] <\sh> (where xterm== *term) 
[11:08] <doko> \sh: what kind of difference does it make?
[11:08] <ogra> \sh, that does only work for new installs then
[11:09] <\sh> doko: the user can choose if he wants this override or not...
[11:09] <ogra> \sh, existing installs will be missing PROMPT_COMMAND completely
[11:09] <\sh> doko: if he removes the PROMPT_COMMAND in .bashrc, it will always come up with bash.bashrc
[11:09] <ogra> at least for th eexisting users
[11:09] <\sh> ogra: ?? it's right now the default in global and userbased
[11:10] <ogra> oh its in both ?
[11:10] <\sh> ogra: yes
[11:10] <\sh> ogra: and this is what annoyes some people
[11:10] <\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15122 e.g.
[11:10] <doko> I don't mind
[11:10] <doko> it was requested in the past
[11:13] <\sh> doko: it's just that it's a wrong behaviour...users cli switch should have higher prio then global PROMPT_COMMAND...but right now it's not the case
[11:14] <dholbach> good night, mvo
[11:16] <mvo> good night dholbach 
[11:24] <\sh> lamont-away / infinity: can u please check what's up with gfcui (upload 2005-09-15) buildd status: not-for-us..but it's in universe, thx
[11:39] <cogumbreiro> might I ask one question regarding Serpentine and its integration with GNOME?
[11:40] <dholbach> fire away
[11:40] <cogumbreiro> regarding this bug: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14137
[11:42] <dholbach> cogumbreiro: could the upstream nautilus-cd-burner guys bring some light into this issue?
[11:43] <cogumbreiro> yeah, I think so, I'm going to mail them then
[11:43] <dholbach> super, thank you
[11:43] <cogumbreiro> dholbach: so, should i wait for a release after their reply?
[11:44] <dholbach> you could try to catch them on irc
[11:45] <cogumbreiro> i will
[11:47] <Lathiat> hrmm, hwdb.ubuntu.com is connection refusing on the webserver
[11:50] <hunger> hehe... just managed to get those two strange keys on my thinkpad to work properly:-)
[11:51] <hunger> Could those "back" and "forward" keys get enabled by default in X?
[11:51] <vrln> are there daily breezy snapshots available?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> vrln: cd images?  Yes, look at cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/
[11:51] <vrln> I'm thinking about installing the preview, but I guess RC1 should be out soonish, so I'm not really sure
[11:51] <Lathiat> vrln: yes, although the preview is probably a better idea
[11:51] <vrln> Mithrandir: exactly - thank you :)
[11:51] <ogra> Lathiat, ?? works fine here
[11:52] <Lathiat> ogra: eh its fixed now
[11:52] <Lathiat> ogra: i noticed cus your buildlogs page was using the show thing
[11:52] <vrln> Lathiat: since ubuntu is in feature freeze, I'd imagine the daily images to be more stable than the preview :)
[11:52] <vrln> that said, the preview livecd works perfectly here
[11:52] <Lathiat> vrln: well they probably work :)
[11:53] <Mithrandir> vrln: both should work quite well. :-)
[11:56] <vrln> Mithrandir: yeah - I'm downloading the daily snapshot right now, thanks again - switching from gentoo :)
[11:56] <\sh> Mithrandir: can u apt-get build-dep partimage? :) thx :)
[11:57] <vrln> now if only e17 would be accepted as a backport, then everything would be perfect (tm) (and sorry for the off-topic talk, I know this is supposed to be a devel channel)
[11:57] <Mithrandir> \sh: you're insane.  (running)
[11:57] <\sh> Mithrandir: it's bug day :)
[11:57] <Mithrandir> \sh: seriously, you're going to waste a few days on it, but feel free, stuff's installed
[11:57] <\sh> Mithrandir: as I said...I have to pay my depts in some beer at ubz
[11:58] <\sh> Mithrandir: thx :) 
[11:58] <Mithrandir> \sh: if you fix partimage to work correctly at ubz, I think I owe you beers.
[11:59] <\sh> Mithrandir: hmmm...u can test it?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> \sh: well, if you get it to run first, sure.
[12:00] <Mithrandir> \sh: it's used for our livecd builds to make rsyncable images, iirc.
[12:01] <\sh> Mithrandir: can I run it via fakeroot? ,-)
[12:01] <Mithrandir> \sh: that should work, yes.
[12:01] <\sh> Mithrandir: nice...so I could see the result on ravel