[10:27] <jsgotangco> hi miss JaneW 
[10:49] <JaneW> hi Mr jsgotangco 
[10:51] <jsgotangco> JaneW, i've stirred up the natives here over Edubuntu in LinuxWorld
[10:51] <JaneW> really?
[10:54] <jsgotangco> JaneW, i've been a good ambassador in case you haven't been reasing planet.ubuntu.com
[10:54] <jsgotangco> s/reasing/reading
[10:55] <jsgotangco> JaneW, I've always been doing my talk/demos on edubuntu instead of ubuntu
[10:56] <JaneW> cool
[10:58] <jsgotangco> i gotta go i have an appointment will catch you later
[10:58] <jsgotangco> been moving stuff
[02:12] <magnon> woho
[02:13] <magnon> just lacking wireless and 3d accel for a perfect ubuntu on powerbook
[04:30] <ogra> yvesC, could you file a bugreport for the gcompris issues, in case i want to update the package to a new upstream version i need to show some user complaints to base my request on
[04:31] <ogra> (in bugzilla, not malone)
[04:31] <jelkner> ogra: can i ask you a few questions?
[04:31] <ogra> jelkner, sure
[04:31] <jelkner> first off, let me introduce Nick Wheeler (spec)
[04:31] <ogra> hi Spec 
[04:31] <Spec> Hello.
[04:31] <jelkner> he was the ltsp admin two years ago
[04:32] <jelkner> he's here to get "watch teacher" working
[04:32] <jelkner> and i wanted him to talk to you first
[04:32] <ogra> watch teacher ?
[04:32] <jelkner> so that whatever he comes up with will be useful to edubuntu
[04:33] <Spec> Watch Teacher is just a system to watch the teacher's desktop
[04:33] <ogra> ah
[04:34] <Spec> without letting students take over the teacher's (vnc?) server
[04:34] <Spec> I'm wondering what the best way to do this is...Xvnc and vncreflector?
[04:34] <jelkner> or something else?
[04:34] <ogra> i'd do it with vino, so you dont need to install additional software
[04:35] <Spec> Vino is VNC for gnome?
[04:36] <jelkner> the long term goal would be for edubuntu to have as much of the funtionality of netop as possilbe
[04:37] <jelkner> (see http://www.netop.com/netop-8.htm)
[04:39] <jelkner> (actually http://www.netop.com/nsch-features gives a list of features)
[04:39] <jelkner> right now i'll be happy with what nick setup before
[04:40] <jelkner> a way to project a desktop to the class for teaching purposes
[04:44] <jelkner> ogra: next question (while nick looks into vino)... at the edubuntu lab we setup at the mount rainier library
[04:44] <jelkner> we have two guest accounts that folks will use who walk in (not regulars)
[04:46] <jelkner> the librarian wants the guest accounts to either have "locked" desktops
[04:46] <jelkner> or at least set it up so they return to new each time she logs out and then logs in again
[04:46] <jelkner> how best to do this?
[04:47] <ogra_> grmpf
[04:47] <ogra_> jelkner, if you said something to me during the last 10 mins you need to repeat it, my DSL dies silently...
[04:47] <ogra_> deid even
[04:47] <ogra_> argh
[04:47] <ogra_> died
[04:48] <jelkner> ogra_: where did you leave off?
[04:48] <jelkner> i was talking about netop, did you get that?
[04:48] <ogra_> after i explained the gconf stuff fo vino
[04:48] <ogra_> about 10 mins ago
[04:48] <ogra_> nope
[04:49] <Spec> you, uhh, didn't :p
[04:49] <jelkner> i was saying that the "dream" would be for edubuntu to have as much of the netop functionality as possible.
[04:49] <jelkner> see: http://www.netop.com/nsch-features
[04:49] <ogra_> Spec, vino is in the default gnome install, its a implementation of vnc integrated with gnome... 
[04:50] <jelkner> this is windows only software, but it is really cool what it can do for a classroom lab setting
[04:50] <ogra_> you can see its settings in system->settings->remote desktop
[04:50] <Spec> it seems easy enough...
[04:50] <Spec> how do I connect to a server though?
[04:50] <Spec> localhost.localdomain:0 ?
[04:51] <ogra_> you connect with vncclient to the ip
[04:51] <ogra_> since its ltsp you can adjust user settings on the fly with gconf (even set apassword you delete after the session)
[04:52] <ogra_> jelkner, netop is in fact what SCP will be...
[04:52] <Spec> what is SCP?
[04:52] <ogra_> SCP is 90% done but the missing 10% are to essential to have it in breezy
[04:53] <ogra_> in fact a reimplementation of teacher tool with enhancements and a rewritten backend for our new LTSP arch
[04:53] <ogra_> since all the "old" management tools dont work with the eedubuntu ltsp... we simply dont use X
[04:54] <ogra_> its outlined on the edubuntu wiki as TeachersPet 
[04:55] <Spec> cool
[04:56] <ogra> Spec, but it sadly wont make it into this release...
[04:57] <ogra> i'll put the code in bazaar around release time, so others can contribute... :)
[04:59] <Spec> I notice there isn't any requirement for being able to view any client's desktop... :p
[04:59] <ogra> its already implemented
[04:59] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/SCP.png
[05:00] <ogra> (thats a very old shot from the early days, the UI already changed a lot
[05:00] <ogra> )
[05:00] <Spec> wow, that's impressive
[05:00] <ogra> the "network" button now has a screenshot from the students desktop, it automatically generates a password for the vnc server and enables it if you click it
[05:01] <ogra> i'm lacking the vnc eroor handling and the unsetting of the changed student settings after the vnc session currently...
[05:01] <Spec> jelkner wants a vnc instance that he can connect to and read/write, and that the students can (forcibly) connect to with only read permissions
[05:02] <Spec> and not to only display his current desktop
[05:02] <ogra> if you write that in python, i'll integrate it in SCP ;)
[05:03] <ogra> some kind of "playout" feature was in the SCP/TeachersPet spec iirc
[05:04] <Spec> I don't know how to do this via vino, I know how to do this with Xvnc though :p
[05:04] <ogra> its the same...
[05:05] <Spec> then in that case, I know how to do it with both equally well.
[05:05] <ogra> vino == vnc with gconf settings and desktop integration...
[05:06] <ogra> you just have the advantage that gconf can hold global or user settings so you can adjust either of them on the server directly and affect all students settings :)
[05:07] <ogra> note that SCP is planned as a framework for plugins to enhance it over time with contributions from several sides :)
[05:08] <Spec> How do I run vino without desktop integration?
[05:10] <ogra> hmm, you need a separate desktop ? independent from the teachers desktop ? 
[05:11] <Spec> The teacher wants a desktop to show the students different than the one the teacher *actually* works on. :p
[05:13] <ogra> yes, thats eiher a Xvnc thing or another desktop with a special demo user :)
[05:15] <Spec> The problem then becomes, how will Xvnc know that when the teacher connects, he gets read/write, and when students connect, they get read only?
[05:16] <ogra> hmm
[05:16] <ogra> you'd have to do that on the clientside while connecting...
[05:18] <ogra> the students automatically connect with the -viewonly option attached to the vncviewer command... write a wrapper script for vncviewer that checks for the "teacher" group and sets this if its not privileged ? 
[05:19] <Spec> yeah, that's what I did in the past
[05:19] <Spec> or, something similar
[05:19] <Spec> I was just told vnc is broken in breezy and won't work no matter how hard I try, and that I should check out freenx?
[05:20] <ogra> thats nonsense
[05:20] <Spec> and the person who told me was confident that he could call matt zimmerman and he would agree with him?
[05:20] <ogra> if vnc is broken in breezy and you can confirm that, please file a bug
[05:20] <ogra> we'll fix it before release then
[05:20] <Spec> naa, i'm going to just ignore what he says
[05:22] <ogra> if you find it broken, please file a bug, but since i didnt hear anything about it, i dont think its broken ;)
[05:23] <Spec> over ltsp?
[05:23] <Spec> I think that might've had something to do with it, too. not just breezy
[05:24] <ogra> *over* ltsp ? what do you mean ?
[05:25] <ogra> ltsp only eports the ltsp desktop... every vnc traffic is managed via vnc...
[05:25] <Spec> it makes more sense to ignore what he said :p
[05:26] <ogra> in fact you open parallel X traffic for vnc... 
[05:27] <ogra> thats why NX might be better, but the NX packaging is to bad, so we didnt even include it in universe yet, someone within canonical is working on a fixed package, but i dont know if it will be ready in breezy time
[07:43] <magnon> ogra, I meant to ask, do you have any hardware vendors who have been particularily nice towards ubuntu edu efforts?
[07:43] <magnon> tuxlabs etc.
[07:44] <ogra> magnon, not that i'm aware of, but probably JaneW know something here, i know she also talked to HW vendors (not sure if it was wrt edu)
[07:45] <magnon> JaneW, same question to you then ;)
[09:04] <Rondom> hello
[09:04] <Rondom> anyone here?
[09:04] <Rondom> i still have some hoary-cds an I want to install edubuntu
[09:04] <Rondom> what shall I do
[09:05] <ogra> install hoary, upgrade to breezy and install edubuntu-desktop :)
[09:05] <Rondom> install normal, upgate to breezy ,uninstall ubuntu-dekstop and install edubuntu?
[09:05] <Rondom> so does that mean I shall install the thing normally
[09:05] <Rondom> why not remove ubuntu-desktop
[09:06] <ogra> it doesnt matter if you do that... do as you like ;)
[09:06] <ogra> edubuntu-desktop contains all apps from ubuntu-desktop
[09:07] <Rondom> including the games
[09:07] <ogra> so uninstall it if you feel that looks cleaner in the package manager ;)
[09:07] <Rondom> ?
[09:07] <ogra> yup
[09:07] <Rondom> ok
[09:07] <Rondom> thx for your help
[09:07] <ogra> youre welcome :)
[09:08] <Rondom> what's your motivation for edubuntu development? I mean why don't you do somthing else?
[09:13] <linescann> ogra:  you get anywhere with the booting issue ?
[09:49] <magnon> Rondom: Why should one do something else?
[09:57] <Rondom> I know ogra is also responsible for universe. I am interested in hte motivation of helping with creating a ubuntu for schools
[09:58] <magnon> I'd say it's a very rewarding cause
[09:58] <Rondom> magnon: I didn't mean that he shouldn't do it, or that I don't understand it.
[09:59] <magnon> aha, ok :)
[09:59] <magnon> it sounded a bit like it
[10:04] <Rondom> I also released some (crappy :oops:) stuff under the GPL and helped at several projects
[10:04] <Rondom> so I didn't want to say: "Are you stupid? Why the hell do you do this stuff?"
[10:06] <magnon> hehe
[10:06] <Rondom> not that familiar with linux and c-programming
[10:07] <Rondom> I didn't use linux for a long time, because I wanted to learn c first to write an import-plugin that imports from miranda (www.miranda-im.org) to gaim
[10:08] <Rondom> :-D
[11:48] <magnon> ogra: what's Claire's nick on IRC again?
[11:49] <ogra> magnon, cvd
[11:49] <magnon> ty