[12:02] <elmo> ogra: if you don't use your box for anything else you might not notice - try locking your screen, switching to the console and running top
[12:04] <robertj> is Ubuntu Express still on track from Breezy?
[12:04] <tseng> no.
[12:04] <ogra> elmo, it eats 2%, 90% idle
[12:04] <elmo> ogra: ok, so it's not universal at least
[12:04] <elmo> I wonder if it's fighting with workrave
[12:05] <ogra> ah, that sounds reasonable
[12:05] <ogra> i also have a weird bug from rossb... 
[12:05] <ogra> elmo, #15817 
[12:05] <ogra> it couls also be something like that...
[12:05] <ogra> could
[12:06] <ogra> i cant reproduce it on x86 and amd64 here
[12:06] <seb128> jmg: you can have a Debian menu from the Application menu by installing menu-xdg
[12:07] <seb128> jmg: other way you have to use a menu editor, the GNOME menu uses the freedesktop format and desktop files
[12:07] <seb128> jmg: "smeg" by example of menu editor
[12:07] <robertj> did the guadalinux folks just not hit their deadlines?
[12:08] <elmo> yeah, the problem is workrave
[12:08] <elmo> or gss vs. workrave
[12:08] <seb128> that's not a KDE issue but an inotify issue, I was saying it from the start :p
[12:10] <ogra> seb128, but you also said you wouldnt work on KDE issues :) 
[12:10] <ogra> seb128, thanks for doing it anyway...
[12:10] <robitaille> ogra,   is it a bug or a feature that gnome-screensaver doesn't have a gui to select an amount of time before my laptop display totally turns off?
[12:10] <seb128> np
[12:10] <ogra> robitaille, hmm, not sure :) 
[12:11] <robitaille> like with xscreensaver and its powermanager menu
[12:11] <ogra> robitaille, i dont know whats planned for the UI in the future...
[12:11] <ogra> so i'm not sure if its a bug or a feature
[12:11] <robitaille> but the current UI is  the UI we'll ship?
[12:12] <ogra> robitaille, with changes in the lock screen... but yes
[12:12] <jmg> is there a way to monitor the filesystem for changes before and after installing from a
[12:12] <jmg>   commercial installer and make a deb file out of the changes?
[12:12] <jmg> not checkinstall, this POS doesnt use makefiles
[12:12] <robitaille> ogra,  usually with my laptop and xscreensaver, I select blank the screen after 1min, turn off the screen after 5 mins to minimize battery usage. 
[12:14] <ogra> robitaille, i think we can do something similar with laptop-mode or the acpi-support package for now, in dapper we'll surely have g-p-m ready
[12:14] <robertj> jmg: fsdiff probably does the job
[12:14] <robertj> jmg: but it's just going to give you the changes, not any of the packaging stuff
[12:15] <robitaille> ogra,  that would be very useful to avoid reinstalling xscreensaver at the cost of removing ubuntu-dekstop;  should I fill something in bugzilla?
[12:16] <ogra> robitaille, there is something already...
[12:16] <robitaille> ogra,   oh...I didn't find it.
[12:17] <elmo> ogra: #15831, enjoy
[12:17] <ogra> elmo, thanks
[12:17] <ogra> i'll have to use workrave now i guess :)
[12:18] <ogra> robitaille, 15426 and 12003
[12:21] <Nafallo> hmm
[12:22] <ogra> Nafallo, do you see that too ?
[12:23] <Nafallo> ogra: I saw that bug. that was enough for me :-P
[12:23] <Nafallo> ogra: atleast this evening ;-)
[12:23] <Nafallo> ehm, night
[12:23] <mdz> jbailey: did you track down that initramfs error?
[12:24] <jbailey> mdz: Still chasing it with gicmo 
[12:24] <jbailey> Figured out why my trap didn't work.
[12:25] <\sh> grmpf
[12:25] <jbailey> Apparently [ -e ${resume} ]  is true when resume is not defined.
[12:39] <gicmo> jbailey, works
[12:39] <jbailey> \o/
[12:39] <gicmo> also for my friend
[12:39] <ogra> oh, great, i just finished my install
[12:39] <ogra> jbailey, whats the fix i can test it immediately
[12:39] <jbailey> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/initramfs-tools_0.27_all.deb
[12:40] <jmg> wow fsdiff isnt in debian
[12:44] <ogra> jbailey, install edubuntu :)
[12:44] <jbailey> ogra: What does it need on the server side?
[12:44] <jbailey> Like, is it a package I can install on my main breezy box?
[12:44] <ogra> jbailey, i run a pIII 900 with 256MB , but i only have one client available
[12:44] <ogra> ah, k
[12:45] <jbailey> Well, I was going to setup another machine anyway for watching DVDs in the other room.
[12:45] <ogra> see ThinClientHowto on the ubuntu wiki
[12:45] <jbailey> So it has no need of a local drive anyway.
[12:46] <ogra> thats the core stuff, you wont need anything else... edubuntu is only the software selection and shiny artwork stuff...
[12:46] <jbailey> Ooo shiny!
[12:46] <ogra> heh
[12:47] <ogra> the CD bootscreen looks cool, i just saw it the first time in action
[12:47] <ogra> anyway, testing now
[12:54] <mdz> crimsun: the change looks ok to me, though the patch is in "normal" format and so is unlikely to apply correctly
[12:54] <mdz> crimsun: (regarding 14232)
[12:55] <\sh> good night gentlemen
[12:56] <martinhj> jbailey: looked anymor at #14316 ? (lilo not working when I boot with initramfs image)
[01:01] <ogra_ltsp> jbailey, i can confirm the breakage and i can confirm the fix, works fine
[01:02] <jbailey> ogra_ltsp: Lovely, thanks.
[01:02] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, mousedev doesnt get loaded in ltsp :(
[01:02] <jbailey> ogra_ltsp: I'll do two more tests on my machines and upload.
[01:02] <ogra_ltsp> jbailey, great
[01:02] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: if that were the case, X would never start
[01:02] <mdz> yet it does
[01:02] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, exactly, it doesnt start
[01:03] <ogra_ltsp> i had to login on console and load mousedev, i will investigate further...
[01:03] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: more likely you are encountering http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12915
[01:03] <jbailey> martinhj: Gimme a sec.  I'm just working on a different bug.
Where oh where did my /dev/input go?</song>
[01:04] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, yes, most likely
[01:04] <ogra_ltsp> thanks
[01:09] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: if you are able to reproduce it, please help Keybuk debug it
[01:09] <mdz> because so far we have difficulty reproducing it
[01:09] <mdz> and
[01:09] <mdz> the thin client environment is nice and simple
[01:09] <mdz> mousedev is the only module loaded in /etc/modules
[01:10] <ogra_ltsp> yup, i know
[01:10] <ogra_ltsp> i will try to find the cause
[01:11] <Keybuk> I did 150 reboots today
[01:11] <Keybuk> AND STILL CAN'T REPLICATE THAT MOTHER FUCKER
[01:11] <Nafallo> Keybuk: wow! that's lots of fsck :-P
[01:12] <mjg59> Nafallo: Rule 1 in debugging: tune2fs your filesystem to fsck less often
[01:12] <Keybuk> Nafallo: I commented that stuff out
[01:12] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:13] <Keybuk> well, made it reboot before it got that far
[01:13] <Nafallo> mjg59: btw, is that stuff supposed to run while on battery?
[01:14] <mjg59> No, not really. But it probably is.
[01:14] <Nafallo> mjg59: that's a post-breezybug I guess? ;-)
[01:14] <mjg59> We'll see
[01:14] <mjg59> Anyway, I'm off home
[01:15] <Nafallo> oki
[01:16] <Keybuk> here's a nickel, kid; get a real filesystem
[01:16] <Nafallo> I run ext3 everywhere ;-)
[01:17] <Keybuk> it's not a real filesystem unless it scares the willies out of elmo
[01:17] <jbailey> Keybuk: umsdos?
[01:17] <Nafallo> HAHA
[01:19] <Keybuk> reminds me of the LCA keynote where Andrew Morton gave away the USB key to the man who admitted to running jfs "to back up his files onto"
[01:20] <HrdwrBoB> hahaha
[01:21] <HrdwrBoB> I use XFS
[01:21] <ogra_ltsp> Keybuk, seems i can reproduce it reliably
[01:21] <tseng> have a cookie
[01:21] <ogra_ltsp> Keybuk, so what info do you need...
[01:21] <Keybuk> ogra_ltsp: check that mousedev *is* loaded, and /dev/input/mice is missing
[01:22] <ogra_ltsp> Keybuk, mousedev isnt loaded
[01:22] <Keybuk> it isn't?
[01:22] <ogra_ltsp> i have to load it manually
[01:22] <ogra_ltsp> afterwards everything works fine
[01:22] <Keybuk> then it's not 12915
[01:22] <ogra_ltsp> ok
[01:22] <Keybuk> 12915 is when mousedev is loaded, but the udev event is dropped somewhere
[01:22] <ogra_ltsp> so its something else
[01:22] <Keybuk> sounds like it
[01:23] <ogra_ltsp> funnily psmouse is loaded
[01:23] <Keybuk> oh, now that's kinda amusing
[01:23] <Keybuk> psmouse should generally drag mousedev in
[01:23] <ogra_ltsp> heh
[01:24] <ogra_ltsp> hmm, modinfo psmouse doesnt show a dependency on mousedev
[01:24] <Keybuk> no, but mousedev declares its undying love for all things of class mouse
[01:25] <Keybuk> so grepmap <anything mousey> will load it
[01:25] <Keybuk> as will modprobe $MODALIAS for anything mousey
[01:25] <ogra_ltsp> hmm
[01:26] <Keybuk> actually, the second bit there may be a lie and a kernel bug
[01:27] <Keybuk> but we're not using that anyway
[01:27] <ogra_ltsp> the fun is, i have a /etc/modules with only the line mousedev in it... 
[01:27] <ogra_ltsp> but it still doesnt get loaded
[01:28] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:28] <Keybuk> ltsp is ordinary breezy?
[01:28] <Keybuk> in breezy those are loaded by S:S20module-init-tools (yay descriptive filename)
[01:28] <ogra_ltsp> yup, but with a startscript for the client that loads the modules...
[01:28] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:28] <Keybuk> trace the script?
[01:29] <ogra_ltsp> so there may be something wrong... but i wouldnt know what, since there was no change in ltsp since ma last install on friday
[01:29] <ogra_ltsp>     for module in $(env | awk -F= '$1 ~ /^MODULE_/ { print $2 }'); do
[01:29] <ogra_ltsp>         modprobe $module
[01:29] <ogra_ltsp>     done
[01:29] <Keybuk> hitting max environment size ?
[01:30] <ogra_ltsp> hmm...
[01:30] <mdz> jbailey: thoughts on letting initrd-tools pass into universe in breezy?
[01:31] <ogra_ltsp> env looks ok here... on the client as well as on the server
[01:31] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: that code isn't relevant
[01:31] <mdz> that's used for loading additional modules via lts.conf
[01:31] <mdz> mousedev is loaded in /etc/modules
[01:31] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, so module-init-tools is my prob 
[01:32] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: perhaps you modified /etc/modules in the chroot
[01:32] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, i didnt touch it...
[01:32] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: "stuff listed in /etc/modules doesn't get loaded anymore" is a bug someone else would have noticed...
[01:33] <ogra_ltsp> its a fresh install the only thing i did was reconfiguring linux-image to use jbaileys fix
[01:33] <mdz> ogra_ltsp: did you look at /etc/modules or no?
[01:33] <ogra_ltsp> it contains mousedev as usual
[01:34] <ogra_ltsp> module-init-tools is there as well... started by S20 in rcS.d
[01:34] <Keybuk> is there an /etc/modules-* ?
[01:34] <ogra_ltsp> nope
[01:36] <jbailey> mdz: I'd be happy to see that.  The only case I've seen where I have no idea what's happening is the iBooks that refuse to load an initramfs at all.
[01:37] <jbailey> mdz: But it has to happen right after breezy, anyway, since without devfs it won't work.
[01:38] <Keybuk> did you really mean devfs?
[01:38] <jbailey> Keybuk: Yes.  initrd-tools depends on devfs.
[01:39] <ajmitch> jbailey: just to check, with initramfs, udevstart runs before the real init?
[01:39] <jbailey> Keybuk: This was part of my incentive to start initramfs-tools after OLS of last year.  I tried ripping the devfs stuff out, and it just got uglier..
[01:39] <jbailey> ajmitch: Yes, but only a limited subset of drivers has been loaded at that point.
[01:40] <jbailey> ajmitch: g'morning, btw.
[01:40] <ajmitch> jbailey: right, just checking for selinux stuff :)
[01:40] <ajmitch> hi
[01:41] <jbailey> Ooo, selinux.  shiny. =)
[01:43] <ajmitch> jbailey: I'd really like to see some of it in dapper if possible, so I need to review all the bits I have now
[01:44] <jbailey> Nice.  Hardening dapper would probably be lovely.
[01:44] <ajmitch> yeah
[01:44] <jbailey> It would also mean that anything that certifies to dapper isn't going to automatically suck on the next version if it grows selinux
[01:46] <ajmitch> depends on how much support we can get in :)
[01:48] <Keybuk> it'd be nice to get a real deployment of the dpkg selinux support to see whether it works <g>
[01:50] <ajmitch> things are still moving a bit slow in debian with other packages :)
[02:08] <ogra_ltsp> mdz, module-init-tools is broken, line 25 reads "log_end_msg 1" but should read "log_end_msg 1 || true" else it exits on readonly filesystems or if depmod cant get executed out of other reasons
[02:10] <ogra_ltsp> in the init script that is indeed
[02:51] <wftl> Can anyone provide me a link that can show me the release schedule and the feature plan for 5.10 and the next release?
[02:51] <Burgundavia> wftl, 1st part, 5.10 releases Oct 13, 2005
[02:52] <Burgundavia> wftl, features for 6.04 (the next release) are going to be decided at the next dev conference
[02:52] <bddebian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[02:52] <Burgundavia> wftl, features for 5.10 can be seen in the release notes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[02:53] <wftl> Thanks, Burgundavia and bddebian.
[02:53] <bddebian> NP
[02:54] <wftl> Are there any likely changes to the installer for Breezy Badger?
[02:54] <Burgundavia> wftl, no
[02:55] <Burgundavia> wftl, the uniifed live/install cd didn't make feature freeze
[02:55] <Burgundavia> expect it for 6.04
[02:55] <wftl> I actually meant the graphical installer.
[02:56] <wftl> Burgundavia, where are you located?
[02:56] <wftl> Just curious because of the shawcable address.
[02:56] <Burgundavia> wftl, Victoria, BC Canada
[02:57] <wftl> Ah, cool.  Nice place.
[02:57] <Burgundavia> wftl, the unified live/installer cd is the graphical isntallers
[03:23] <mjg59> So. As root, how do I determine a user's Dbus session address?
[03:29] <Lathiat> you dont?
[03:29] <mjg59> Ok. Let me rephrase that.
[03:30] <mjg59> As root, how do I determine a user's DBus session address in order for it to be possible to control gnome-screensaver from acpi scripts and avoid the death of small kittens and destruction of the battle fleet?
[03:31] <mjg59> mdz: Around?
[03:31] <mdz> mjg59: yep
[03:32] <mjg59> mdz: Something of a problem with gnome-screensaver integration
[03:32] <mjg59> mdz: gnome-screensaver-command uses DBus to communicate. It's not just a drop-in replacement for xscreensaver-command
[03:33] <mjg59> The ACPI scripts run as root, so somehow we need to mimic the user's DBus environment. I can't find any simple way of doing that
[03:35] <mjg59> Which presents certain problems
[03:47] <ogra> mjg59, probably mimic the user, not the dbus env ? (i know how ugly that is) sudo -u $user gnome-screensaver-command --whatever ?
[03:48] <mjg59> ogra: No, that doesn't work
[03:48] <mjg59> ogra: Because it doesn't know where the DBus session bus is
[03:49] <ogra> works here ...
[03:49] <ogra> root@honk:~ # gnome-screensaver-command --activate
[03:49] <ogra> ** Message: Failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon: No reply within specified time
[03:49] <ogra> root@honk:~ # sudo -u ogra gnome-screensaver-command --activate
[03:49] <ogra> root@honk:~ #
[03:49] <mjg59> ogra: + su mjg59 -c 'gnome-screensaver-command --unthrottle'
[03:49] <mjg59> ** Message: Failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon: Unable to determine the address of the message bus
[03:51] <ogra> hmm, yes, does only work in gnome-terminal...
[03:51] <infinity> No, it only works if you have your environment preserved. :)
[03:51] <mjg59> ogra: You've probably carried over your environment
[03:51] <infinity> Hit a terminal, then "sudo su -", then try it.
[03:51] <infinity> Breaks miserably.
[03:54] <infinity> Is this seriously the first time we've run into the "hey, wait, how can root fiddle with aq user's DBUS session?" problem?
[03:54] <infinity> It seems to me it would/should have come up much earlier. :)
[03:55] <mjg59> < DrNick> mjg59: cat /proc/$(pgrep -U nicholas gnome-session)/environ |
[03:55] <mjg59>                 xargs -0 -n 1 | grep -Po '(?<=DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=)(.*)'
[03:55] <mjg59> I'm in awe of that one.
[03:55] <mjg59> I think I may have to use it.
[03:55] <infinity> There must be a less obviously "I am root, so can do evil things" way to do it.
[03:55] <ogra> argh
[03:56] <mjg59> If anyone has a better suggestion within the next 4 minutes, I'll go with that
[03:56] <mjg59> Otherwise you're getting crack
[03:56] <mjg59> All of you
[03:56] <mjg59> I've got an acpi-support upload that finally seems to fix the "My fans are broken after resume" thing
[03:56] <infinity> Crack it is.  I can't be bothered to take the time out and search for something "better".
[04:01] <Lathiat> mjg59: oh man
[04:01] <Lathiat> mjg59: that is...
[04:01] <Lathiat> thats impressive
[04:01] <Lathiat> wont work on kde tho
[04:03] <mjg59> Lathiat: If they're running gnome-screensaver under KDE, then, well...
[04:03] <ajmitch> Lathiat: but this is for gnome-screensaver love.
[04:04] <ajmitch> it's possible, but hardly going to be supported if they mix & match quite like that
[04:04] <mjg59> Nnnngh.
[04:05] <mjg59> Now it fails silently.
[04:15] <mpt> ogra: ping
[04:31] <Lathiat> mjg59: so what, this is to deactive the screensaver? can't you just run su <user> -c "dbus-send.." or whatever?
[04:31] <mjg59> Lathiat: That would still need to know the user's DBus session address, no?
[04:36] <Lathiat> mjg59: oh, yeh
[04:36] <Lathiat> hrm
[04:51] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[04:52] <whiprush> yay Mr. Dub!
[04:52] <bddebian> Heya jbailey 
[04:52] <bddebian> Err jdub 
[04:59] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[05:01] <ajmitch> Lathiat: heard from ross about avahi debs? :)
[06:15] <Lathiat> mjg59: mmm
[06:40] <fabbione> morning
[06:51] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[06:54] <fabbione> mdz: unping
[07:08] <pitti> Good morning
[07:09] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:10] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:10] <fabbione> hi ajmitch 
[07:10] <pitti> moin ajmitch, fabbione 
[07:13] <fabbione> hmmm weird
[07:14] <fabbione> something is changed in in.tftpd recently that makes the init script useles
[07:14] <fabbione> +s
[07:27] <dholbach> good morning
[07:27] <jsgotangco> hi daniel
[07:27] <dholbach> hey jerome :)
[07:28] <magnon> pitti: your pbbuttonsd package did not fix it :P
[07:29] <pitti> magnon: but 0.7.1 works? http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/packages/pbbuttonsd_0.7.1-1ubuntu1_powerpc.deb
[07:29] <dholbach> morning pitti
[07:30] <magnon> yeah, 0.7.1 does owrk
[07:30] <magnon> work
[07:30] <magnon> I was entirely sure that I posted a comment to that bug on it
[07:30] <magnon> but I didn't
[07:30] <magnon> :/
[07:31] <mdz> fabbione: unpong
[07:31] <pitti> Hi mdz
[07:31] <mdz> hi
[07:31] <magnon> pitti: I'm not using the ubuntu 0.7.1 though. But, I'm not seeing any problems now
[07:31] <magnon> I'd love to help finding what to backport
[07:32] <magnon> but it's 7am and I need to go to bed ;)
[07:32] <magnon> been up all night writing *sigh* business plans
[07:34] <magnon> pitti: I'll be back at about 1300 CET, I'll see about it then :)
[07:34] <magnon> have a nice day, folks
[07:35] <pitti> magnon: sleep well
[07:35] <pitti> thanks
[07:35] <fabbione> mdz: well since you are around.. i am taking off a couple of hours from my ws today.. i need to go and SHARE THE LOVE!
[07:35] <pitti> fabbione: distribute CDs?
[07:35] <fabbione> mdz: give out some CDs and stuff.. but i will be back way before you will be awake ;)
[07:35] <fabbione> pitti: yes
[07:40] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[07:42] <dholbach> whiprush: morning jorge :)
[07:45] <whiprush> morning daniel!
[07:46] <jsgotangco> hey whiprush 
[07:46] <bob2> fridge me up
[07:46] <whiprush> heh
[07:46] <jsgotangco> whiprush, things that freeze?
[07:46] <whiprush> soon dude.
[07:46] <whiprush> soon.
[07:47] <bob2> soon since april
[07:47] <jsgotangco> 6.04
[07:47] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: quite possibly :)
[07:47] <whiprush> bob2: ph ye of little faith. :)
[07:47] <jdub> whiprush: pong
[07:47] <bob2> I thought I was ye of utter rudeness and the spawn of satan?
[07:48] <ajmitch> bob2: that too
[07:48] <whiprush> jdub: Just listened to asa's audio from oscon.
[07:48] <jdub> bob2: it was never 'soon since april'
[07:48] <fabbione> pitti: can you remind me again the URL to grab a raw main inclusion report?
[07:48] <whiprush> jdub: ironically, I just got to the part where you got to talk.
[07:49] <pitti> fabbione: view one and select "view raw" in the dropdown
[07:49] <bob2> jdub: but harrassing whiprush is my hobby!
[07:49] <whiprush> bob2: pfft.
[07:49] <fabbione> pitti: danke
[07:49] <jdub> bob2: you've chosen the wrong person to harrass
[07:49] <whiprush> soon dude. soon.
[07:49] <pitti> fabbione: ?action=raw
[07:49] <jdub> whiprush: meanwhile, still don't have a server yet ;)
[07:50] <whiprush> jdub: I was going to ask what you thought of his speech, but now I get to hear you getting cut off.
[07:50] <jdub> hopefully during tonight
[07:50] <jdub> whiprush: i was hoping to do a response via zdnet, but my trip got in the way
[07:50] <pitti> jdub: when will we see libmad0 and libxine1c2 in universe?
[07:50] <whiprush> ... and so much for addressing his concerns.
[07:50] <pitti> jdub: we should do that soon
[07:52] <jdub> whiprush: the annoying bit was that straight after i got a chance to sit down with him for a useful amount of time and talk to him about it
[07:52] <jdub> pitti: libmad yeah, xine - why bother?
[07:52] <pitti> jdub: is it already cleaned?
[07:53] <jdub> pitti: afaik, the debian/ubuntu builds don't have seriously naughty stuff
[07:53] <pitti> jdub: so if it is patent-free (or, rather less patented) now, can we put totem-xine into main?
[07:54] <jdub> it's tempting. i'd prefer if someone reviewed xine to make sure though.
[07:54] <pitti> jdub: the description says that it supports mp3, mpeg, etc.
[07:54] <jdub> * html b.bl {bottom:-2px}
[07:54] <jdub> * html b.br {bottom:-2px}
[07:54] <whiprush> jdub: man, kind of lame ... didn't even get a chance to follow it up in public.
[07:54] <jdub> bah
[07:54] <pitti> jdub: ?
[07:54] <jdub> pitti: if you have libmad installed
[07:54] <pitti> jdub: thou must not format IRC strings :-)
[07:54] <pitti> jdub: ah, IC
[07:55] <jdub> (that was css)
[07:55] <pitti> jdub: I know :-)
[07:55] <pitti> ok, cu later
[07:56] <Mithrandir> ogra: gnome-screensaver seems unstable.  It has crashed for me here.
[07:57] <Mithrandir> ogra: and it's not restarted even though I twiddled in the control panel (unlike g-v-m for instance)
[07:59] <fabbione> morning Mith
[07:59] <Mithrandir> hiya Fabio
[08:02] <jdub> mdz: 128M req is fine for most cases, though perhaps we should say, "Some applications will have greater requirements."
[08:02] <jdub> or something like that
[08:03] <HrdwrBoB> like openoffice
[08:03] <HiddenWolf> jdub, ever tried running gnome on 128?
[08:04] <jdub> yeah
[08:04] <HiddenWolf> Depends on what you're used to, but I wouldn't recommend it...
[08:04] <jdub> works fine
[08:04] <jdub> if you want to run useful apps, you need 256MB
[08:05] <HiddenWolf> jdub, so what good it is to say 128 is minimum? save marketing?
[08:05] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia, i'm sure that kept you busy for a while. ;)
[08:05] <jdub> mind you, now we've included all this crazy hplip stuff, we're chomping up huge gobs of useful memory on stuff the majority of our users won't care about (no, the majority do not have hp inkjets)
[08:06] <HiddenWolf> jdub, ouch, it's that bad?
[08:06] <jdub> HiddenWolf: if you just want to run a desktop and browser, 128MB isn't bad
[08:07] <doko> pitti: please could you review ttf-dejavu (font) and libfont-ttf-perl
[08:07] <jdub> USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
[08:07] <jdub> hplip     6911  0.0  0.6   9636  4112 ?        S    Sep18   0:06 python /usr/sbin/hpssd
[08:07] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf, lets just say after 15 mins to the OO.o splace screen, I gave up
[08:07] <jdub> it's not that bad
[08:07] <jdub> but hopefully avoidable in the future
[08:07] <HrdwrBoB> firefox can be very hungry though, but yes, 128mb is the bare minimum
[08:07] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia, you shouldn't known better than to try. ;)
[08:07] <HiddenWolf> HrdwrBoB, I've had 200mb for firefox alone. ;)
[08:08] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf, didn't realize it had 128 until afterward
[08:08] <HrdwrBoB> my 256mb laptop needs more desperately
[08:08] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia, :D
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> 128 is the barely usable minimum,  256mb is a workable minimum, 512 is perfect
[08:09] <jdub> the two firefox sessions (two users) running on my laptop are 54M and 39M resident (130M and 128M virtual)
[08:09] <dholbach> doko: pitti just went away
[08:09] <HiddenWolf> jdub, well, if hplib is needed to get us on the desktop, it's a good price to pay.
[08:10] <jdub> HiddenWolf: hplip running on every single machine is not required to "get us on the dfesktop"
[08:10] <Mithrandir> jdub: I guess I love tabs; tfheen    8054  0.0  3.9 274588 81740 ?        Sl   Sep18   0:54 /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin -a firefox
[08:10] <HrdwrBoB> mine is 152mb but I have 16 tabs open
[08:10] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: virtual or resident?
[08:10] <Burgundavia> jdub, can the hplip stuff be better integrated into the existing cups/sane stuff we already run?
[08:10] <HrdwrBoB> resident
[08:10] <HrdwrBoB> 377mb virtual
[08:10] <HiddenWolf> jdub, True, but it keeps HP friendly I presume. ;0
[08:11] <jdub> (that's an unusual session for me, though)
[08:11] <HrdwrBoB> I wouldn't bother using, building, or recommending a machine to anyone with 128mb ram
[08:11] <jdub> Burgundavia: possibly, perhaps; ideally we could just activate it when required, yada
[08:11] <doko> mdz: please process openoffice.org1-debian-files from NEW, and promote re-openoffice.org-debian-files to main 
[08:11] <HiddenWolf> 11015 hidde     15   0  114m  50m  20m S  0.3  5.0   0:33.52 firefox-bin
[08:12] <Mithrandir> I don't think I've got any machines running X with less than 1.5GB of memory.
[08:12] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir, why 1.5GB?
[08:12] <Lathiat> and a 640M
[08:12] <dholbach> ajmitch: me neither :)
[08:12] <ajmitch> yet :)
[08:12] <Lathiat> funnily enough the 640M machine is a server with no X etc and uses <100M :)
[08:13] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: because my laptop comes with 512 and takes an extra 1GB stick, my other desktop started off with 512MB, but it was too little so I put another stick in it, and the one I'm on now was bought with 2G three weeks ago
[08:13] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir, ai. :)
[08:14] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: since I'm developing stuff, it's kinda special, though, so I don't think that's necessarily a recommended situation.
[08:14] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: but it really makes the live cd fly on the 2G machine. ;-)
[08:14] <HiddenWolf> I can imagine
[08:14] <HiddenWolf> Well, got to run. I'm up for 6 straight hours listening to lectures.
[08:15] <Mithrandir> have fun
[08:15] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir, doubtful
[08:17] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir, but thanks
[08:18] <doko> \msg `anthony you around? ok to checkin the locales patch (without the utf change) to the branch?
[08:18] <HiddenWolf> I'll think of you guys while I'm sitting through a 2-hour lecture sponsored  by WIntel
[08:23] <`anthony> doko: which one?
[08:23] <doko> \msg `anthony the one I emailed you and martin v loewis
[08:24] <doko> ohh, great, should execercise typing ...
[08:24] <`anthony> doko: hm. when did you send the email? I don't see it.
[08:25] <doko> `anthony: Martin did reply on Sep 14
[08:25] <`anthony> nope - I don't see it.
[08:27] <jdub> thinkpads do not turn the girls on
[08:27] <Mithrandir> jdub: they're still hot, though.
[08:28] <jdub> for us, yeah
[08:28] <jdub> but attempting to convince pia that she wants a thinkpad is *hard*
[08:28] <Mithrandir> what does she want, then?  Toshiba?
[08:28] <jdub> atm she's looking at this flakey asus thing
[08:28] <infinity> Really?... My girlfriend thinks our thinkpads are smokin' hot.
[08:28] <jdub> which is more expensive
[08:29] <infinity> Clearly, you need a new wife, not a new laptop design.
[08:29] <jdub> "but it looks good!"
[08:29] <jdub> "but it will fall apart!"
[08:29] <whiprush> asuses are surprisingly linux-friendly
[08:29] <whiprush> or, asii ...
[08:29] <jdub> itym "arse"
[08:29] <HrdwrBoB> my friends girlfirend has an asus
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> she thinks my X40 is cooler
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> her asus has a dead pixel
[08:30] <jdub> yeah, and the T series just look like big X series
[08:30] <jdub> not any uglier
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> I'll be getting a T series for my wife when we upgrade
[08:31] <whiprush> that new lenovo widescreen X series look nice.
[08:32] <jdub> yeah
[08:32] <whiprush> people dig those new superbrite screens too
[08:32] <whiprush> with the shiny coating on the screen
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> widescreen X series?
[08:33] <whiprush> yeah they have one coming up
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> that would be very nice
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> jdub: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000527058629/
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> Z series will come out with titanium cover optionally
[08:36] <jdub> hope the titanium is light
[08:36] <infinity> The Z isn't a "widescreen X".
[08:36] <jdub> 'cos ibm plastic is like kevlar
[08:36] <HrdwrBoB> no it's not
[08:37] <infinity> It's quite a bit thicker/heavier, and has more bells and whistles (ie: a CD/DVD drive)
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> but jdbu is looking at a T series anyway
[08:37] <infinity> They should capture a market segment that the T and X doesn't currently, though, which is cool.
[08:37] <infinity> I love my T.
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:37] <jdub> pipka needs combination of lightness and screen size, so T fits well
[08:37] <jdub> R is like... crazy
[08:38] <Mithrandir> R is a bit heavy
[08:38] <infinity> The R is too heavy for me.
[08:38] <infinity> S'why I spent the insane money on the T.
[08:38] <whiprush> The R is too heavy for any human
[08:38] <HrdwrBoB> my sister in law has an R40, she uses it for uni, it's not that bad
[08:38] <HrdwrBoB> but a T series is the same only better
[08:38] <infinity> A 2GHz laptop with all the bells and whistles, but still reasonably light and good battery life.  Nice, but at a price.
[08:39] <jdub> dude, it's "R" like "ARGH!"
[08:39] <Mithrandir> whiprush: I'm superhuman, then.
[08:39] <infinity> (I'm actually a bit freaked out that I get 4 hours of battery out of this behemoth...)
[08:39] <jdub> oh
[08:39] <jdub> that reminds me
[08:39] <jdub> i should turn off TLAPD on pgo
[08:39] <whiprush> Mithrandir: you've got a X with 2 batteries iirc.
[08:39] <whiprush> the wedge right?
[08:39] <Mithrandir> whiprush: I used to have an R32
[08:40] <infinity> I looked at the R a few times.  The really low prices are tempting.
[08:40] <infinity> But, in the end, I wanted somehting I could carry from one room to the other wihtout hurting myself.
[08:40] <Mithrandir> that was before the T series had its price cut in half.
[08:40] <whiprush> if you're gonna lug an R, might as well slug an Xbox around. :D
[08:40] <Mithrandir> and similarly for the X series.
[08:41] <infinity> Yeah, the T and X used to be way out of my price range.  Now they're just uncomfortably in my price range.
[08:41] <HrdwrBoB> second hand IBM laptops can be found cheaply, I paid ~$1000 for my X40
[08:41] <HrdwrBoB> and thanks to their ruggedness, just as good as new
[08:41] <infinity> I should find a second-hand X for my girlfriend, she really likes Daniel's X series.
[08:41] <whiprush> infinity: X31's are cheap these days
[08:42] <whiprush> Mithrandir's battery wedge for the X is the winner though. I need to pick one up.
[08:42] <infinity> Yeah, that's pretty cool.
[08:42] <HrdwrBoB> battery wedge?
[08:42] <whiprush> it's like a half-dock kind of thing.
[08:42] <infinity> I don't really need that much battery life, though.  As it is, this T series has more battery than I know what to do with.
[08:42] <Mithrandir> HrdwrBoB: similar to the docking station, but pure battery goodness
[08:42] <HrdwrBoB> independant X40 battery charger?
[08:42] <HrdwrBoB> ooh, the long life battery
[08:42] <infinity> (Okay, my last laptop didn't HAVE a battery, so the mobility is a bit confusing)
[08:42] <HrdwrBoB> it's expensive though
[08:42] <Mithrandir> infinity: it's useful when flying places.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: which I've found myself doing a lot lately. :-P
[08:43] <whiprush> Mithrandir: that puts you at about 10 hours with the wedge + extended battery?
[08:43] <infinity> Mithrandir : Yeah, I fly very infrequently.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> whiprush: yeah
[08:44] <infinity> I wonder if I could cut my power useage by powering down some of my RAM!
[08:44] <HrdwrBoB> surely one day you will get power in a plane
[08:44] <infinity> You can get power in most planes.
[08:44] <infinity> I don't have the right adapter for my laptop right now, though.
[08:44] <Mithrandir> but you have to fly business class, which is more than the price of the extended battery. :-P
[08:45] <infinity> Some intercontinental carriers have power in cattle class now.
[08:45] <Mithrandir> they do?
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> haha Mithrandir 
[08:47] <jdub> yeah, who does that?
[08:48] <infinity> Cathay has power in cattle class.
[08:49] <infinity> Perhaps I should have booked with them for UBZ...
[08:49] <infinity> Oh well.
[08:50] <daniels> qantas, thai, singapore, ba, most of the other oneworld people, virgin, easyjet, ryanair, certainly don't
[08:51] <infinity> Yeah, I think Cathay is a special kinda... special.  They were the first intercontinental carrier I ever flew, and I've made the mistake of assuming others are like them.
[08:51] <Treenaks> infinity: I hear lots of good stories about them, too
[08:51] <infinity> Of course, that's the same carrier that upgraded me to business class on a whim, and the only carrier that ever served me filet mignon.  So, they rule.
[08:51] <daniels> infinity: god*damnit*.
[08:52] <daniels> i may have to review my choice of BA as bestest carrier evar.
[08:52] <Treenaks> I'm flying BA to UBZ
[08:53] <Mithrandir> I'm so far happy with KLM, but I guess I should get our booking guy to book me into something else once.
[08:54] <Mithrandir> the stewardesses on the Malaysia airlines were exceedingly cute, though
[08:54] <Mithrandir> and they have nice comfy pillows
[08:54] <daniels> ba seriously lose out on that criteria (not the comfy-pillow one).
[08:54] <infinity> The airline, or the stweardesses?
[08:54] <infinity> (re: comfy pillows)
[08:54] <daniels> i'm air canadia to UBZ
[08:54] <Treenaks> infinity: comfy stewardesses? wtf? :)
[08:55] <Burgundavia> daniels, AC isn't bad
[08:55] <Mithrandir> infinity: they gave me the comfy pillows, I have no idea whether the crew had comfy pillows or not. :-P
[08:55] <infinity> Air Canadia serves good food, and speaks recognisable English.  I've not (yet) flows them intercontinentally though, so I have no idea how comfy their pillows or stewardesses are.
[08:55] <infinity> s/flows/flown/
[08:56] <Lathiat> how comfy the stewardesses are? ;)
[08:56] <dholbach> haha
[08:56] <dholbach> you guys have problems
[08:57] <infinity> My problem is that I've spent the morning banging my head against FTBFS bugs, and in an effort to relax am going horribly off-topic in a -devel channel.  Not sure what everyone else's is. :)
[08:58] <dholbach> infinity: that's absolutely acceptable ;)
[08:58] <Mithrandir> infinity: waiting for a 500-odd MB dist-upgrade to complete, so I can see if I can track down the "ia32-libs fails to unpack" bug.
[09:00] <infinity> It doesn't ask questions if you export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
[09:00] <infinity> If you don't, sucks to be you.
[09:00] <fabbione> infinity: that's standard hoary -> breezy upgrade
[09:00] <infinity> Oh, you mean during an interactive upgrade? :)
[09:01] <infinity> Yeah, it asks questions, bugs are filed, people are wary of making glibc depend on debconf, not much else has been said about it, I think.
[09:01] <infinity> s/glibc/libc6/
[09:01] <fabbione> infinity: yes, but we do have that policy that says no questions between dist-upgrade, don't we?
[09:02] <daniels> my problem is my raging headache
[09:02] <infinity> fabbione : No unnecessary questions, certainly.  I guess it depends on how necessary we view the libc6 question.  If not, we can just fudge around it in breezy.
[09:03] <fabbione> it's the one about restarting services
[09:03] <Mithrandir> infinity: will people anytime say "no" to it?
[09:04] <infinity> It's there under the assumption people may want to say no, but for us, we can probably just assume yes and carry on.
[09:04] <fabbione> + all the daemons get upgraded too
[09:04] <fabbione> so the restart is also in their maint scripts
[09:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: in what case would people want to say no?
[09:05] <Treenaks> or actually, dist-upgrade did
[09:05] <Mithrandir> :-P
[09:06] <infinity> ;)
[09:06] <mitsuhiko> wb \sh
[09:07] <infinity> In the case when you fear restarting something will hideously break the world, I guess.  I know I've answered "no" in the past, but I doubt I would do so very often.
[09:07] <\sh> morning gentlemen
[09:07] <infinity> And the average Ubuntu user isn't likely to.
[09:07] <Treenaks> infinity: well, I would have loved to say "no" to pcmcia-cs restarting
[09:07] <daniels> that could be our new slogan
[09:07] <daniels> pcmcia-cs: just say no
[09:07] <fabbione> ahah
[09:08] <fabbione> daniels: +1
[09:08] <Treenaks> daniels: well, I agree.. but still
[09:08] <\sh> daniels: regarding #15846 do u have the XTerm in /etc/X11/app-defaults ?
[09:09] <daniels> \sh: we had a patch to that in hoary that we probably dropped
[09:09] <\sh> daniels: will fetch the hoary source :)
[09:10] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/907_debian_xterm.diff
[09:10] <\sh> daniels: what annoys me, is that in gnome I have this grey background in xterm..but in fluxbox everything is allright
[09:12] <dholbach> morning mvo
[09:12] <ajmitch> hi mvo 
[09:12] <dholbach> LAOLA for mvo! YAY! :)
[09:13] <daniels> \sh: probably xrdb not merging the default
[09:13] <\sh> daniels: xrdb and gnome are merging all the stuff in /etc/gnome/config/
[09:13] <mvo> hey dholbach, hey ajmitch
[09:14] <\sh> daniels: but I don't see it merging (when it starts up the seesion) /etc/X11/app-defaults...and the default is normally bg: white fg:black 
[09:15] <daniels> this is why you don't mix security updates and code updates, kids: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=168752
[09:15] <daniels> \sh: *shrug*
[09:17] <Burgundavia> daniels, also why not to run fedora...
[09:18] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: yeah, daniels wouldn't do anything like this during a development cycle
[09:18] <daniels> hey man, that change was made to a *release*
[09:19] <daniels> my hoary change was conservative as shit.  to the point where it possibly slightly broke some setups because of a bug in debconf that I didn't fix in the update.
[09:20] <bob2> lilo's not the default in breezy, right?
[09:20] <infinity> grub is the default i386 bootloader.
[09:20] <ajmitch> bob2: it's not, unless you break things & go for a wholly LVM setup (no /boot partition)
[09:22] <pitti> daniels: ouch
[09:22] <daniels> pitti: with -10 that we shipped, the next update was always going to force sync ranges to be written out.  *shrug*
[09:31] <sivang> morning all
[09:33] <pitti> Hey sivang 
[09:35] <ajmitch> morning sivang 
[09:36] <doko> pitti: please could you review ttf-dejavu (font) and libfont-ttf-perl
[09:38] <pitti> doko: yes, I will process the queue today
[09:41] <sivang> morning pitti , ajmitch 
[09:41] <Mithrandir> grrr, nvidia-glx-legacy needs to divert the libGL.so from mesa
[09:41] <sivang> (and for the rest ofcourse)
[09:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah it's buggy...
[09:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: do you actually have a machine where -legacy is required?
[09:42] <pitti> Diziet: yay, ffox 1.0.7 and mozilla 1.7.12 this week
[09:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: because i think there is more than that, that needs fixing
[09:43] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no, I'm trying to track down 15473
[09:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if you don't mind to look at it, i will be very glad
[09:43] <pitti> Diziet: that should be fine for breezy
[09:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ah ok
[09:43] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I could probably fix the obvious bugs, like "we don't care that we're stomping over half the world" and similar issues
[09:44] <infinity> Shouldn't -legacy and -legacy-dev have pretty much identical maintainer scripts to nvidia-glx*? (and conflict with them)
[09:44] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that would be nice, because i need to leave for a couple of hours now
[09:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'd think so, yes.
[09:44] <fabbione> gotta spread more love around
[09:44] <daniels> if they don't have almost identical maintainer scripts, and conflict with them, then something went seriously wrong
[09:45] <daniels> but I didn't get to finish that stuff off before I handed it off, only that all the diversions for the kernel modules were handled correctly
[09:45] <Mithrandir> daniels: it doesn't divert the libGL stuff, it appears
[09:45] <daniels> Mithrandir: rockin'
[09:46] <Mithrandir> but I still can't reproduce 15473
[09:46] <infinity> Mithrandir : Are you on it, or do you want me to fix it?
[09:46] <Mithrandir> infinity: feel free to fix. :-)
[09:47] <Mithrandir> nvidia-glx-legacy conflicts with the regular nvidia-glx
[09:47] <infinity> And well it should.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-legacy_1.0.7174-0ubuntu18_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libGL.so.1', which is also in package libgl1-mesa
[09:47] <Mithrandir> though
[09:47] <daniels> i can't remember whether d/r copies and seds, or whether I did it by hand
[09:47] <infinity> Right, will fix that.
[09:48] <infinity> I leave ia32-libs to you, however.
[09:48] <Mithrandir> thanks. :-P
[09:48] <infinity> No problem.
[09:48] <infinity> :)
[10:08] <\sh> who else as mdz can approve main uploads for bugfixes to main?
[10:08] <infinity> Kamion.
[10:09] <infinity> But if it's just a bugfix, not much approval is needed.  It's if you need to make very intrusive changes to fix the bug that you need to talk to someone about it.
[10:09] <ajmitch> is main still in that freeze?
[10:09] <infinity> We're thawing out, but will go hard freeze again really soon, so I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. :)
[10:09] <\sh> Kamion: can I upload xterm_203-0ubuntu3 to fix #15846?
[10:17] <pvanhoof> openoffice.org: Depends: openoffice.org1-debian-files (> 1.1.3+1.1.4) but it is not installable
[10:17] <pvanhoof> in breezy today
[10:17] <Mithrandir> pvanhoof: it's stuck in NEW for now
[10:17] <\sh> infinity: are universe packages running through the testbuilds now?
[10:18] <pvanhoof> shouldn't that be openoffice.org1-ubuntu-files ?
[10:18] <daniels> not really
[10:18] <daniels> there's no point in diverging that far from debian
[10:18] <pvanhoof> ok
[10:24] <infinity> \sh : Yes.
[10:31] <siretart> fabbione: around?
[10:47] <infinity> Yeargh, l-r-m makes my eyes bleed.
[10:48] <daniels> no shit
[10:49] <infinity> Oh well, tidying up all the *legacy* mess as I go, should be ready tonight.
[10:50] <chmj> is there a way to transfer a bug from bugzilla to malone ? 
[10:51] <chmj> becouse that would be usefull 
[10:52] <infinity> daniels : Do you have an opinion on that bug?... nvidia recommends disabling those two modules, IIRC.
[10:53] <daniels> infinity: it should disable them, yeah
[10:55] <infinity> Man, nvidia-glx-config is kinda scary for what amounts to a single sed invocation.
[10:55] <daniels> not my fault
[10:55] <infinity> Didn't assume it was.
[10:55] <daniels> that was before l-r-m got foisted upon me
[10:56] <infinity> Does the pain still linger?
[10:56] <daniels> dude, you know the horror freak show I'm maintaining in breezy
[10:56] <daniels> that eclipses all possible pain l-r-m could cause
[10:57] <infinity> ;)
[10:59] <Kamion_> \sh: yes, please do
[10:59] <Kamion_> (xterm)
[10:59] <JaneW> is there a TB tonight... the agenda has not been updated...
[10:59] <JaneW> ?
[10:59] <Kamion> there ought to be
[11:02] <Kamion> nothing obvious in the log about the schedule, so I'll put it at the same time
[11:06] <JaneW> ok
[11:11] <\sh> Kamion: thx :)
[11:11] <sivang> so there's a TB tonight?
[11:12] <\sh> xterm uploaded
[11:18] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, after installing breezy with network support during install, Answering yes to "Download language support" or similar, (no warnings), firefox in the end appears in english instead of the choosen language. Is this ok?
[11:19] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: actually not, but it depends on your language
[11:20] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: ffox does not have too many suported languages
[11:20] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, portuguese should have I guess.
[11:20] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, at least in hoary has.
[11:21] <JaneW> does anybody know if there is an updated version of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/PowerPC ? Specifically if  "OldWorld" Power Macs (beige G3 and older) which will not boot from CD are yet supported by Ubuntu?
[11:21] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: yes, that should work. mozilla-firefox-locale-pt-br
[11:21] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: no idea, I'm afraid
[11:22] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, pt (PT)
[11:22] <Kamion>  Package: language-support-pt
[11:22] <Kamion>  Depends: mozilla-firefox-locale-pt-br, mozilla-firefox-locale-pt-pt, myspell-pt-br, aspell-pt, aspell-pt-br, openoffice.org2-l10n-pt-br
[11:22] <Kamion> should work *shrug*
[11:22] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: sorry, but yes, -pt-pt exists as well
[11:22] <WaterSevenUb> well... after installation in a clean breezy install... no firefox in pt... :-)
[11:23] <WaterSevenUb> tell me how to debug it.
[11:23] <WaterSevenUb> I think the locale is not installed as it should.
[11:23] <Kamion> JaneW: no, OldWorld PowerMacs still aren't supported. I've had reports of people managing to get them to work by the usual kinds of gross hacks one has to employ on OldWorld systems, but nothing supportable; booting those systems from CD currently requires proprietary Apple code that nobody's reverse-engineered.
[11:24] <Kamion> I haven't updated any of those Installation/* pages yet
[11:24] <JaneW> Kamion: oic, thanks for the info.
[11:26] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, kamion, I'll bb in 30m 60m...
[11:27] <pitti> mvo: did you find a solution for the "aptitude holds back packages" yet? it even breaks hoary security updates
[11:28] <mvo> pitti: no, but I wasn't aware that it's that bad :/
[11:29] <sivang> mvo: where is a good place to to learn about python-apt? 
[11:29] <pitti> mvo: unfortunately it seems to be pretty bad
[11:30] <mvo> sivang: depends what you want to do with it :) the python-interface from "import apt" might be a good start
[11:30] <Treenaks> pydoc apt
[11:32] <sivang> mvo: ok, I want to see if I can create an xml representation of the installed packages on a given system, to be able to apply this "changeset" to another unrelated system, if they are of the same release.
[11:32] <sivang> mvo: what do you think?
[11:32] <sivang> Treenaks: thanks
[11:32] <mvo> Treenaks: yes, thanks
[11:33] <Kamion> sivang: what's wrong with dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections?
[11:33] <Treenaks> sivang: I used to do that with dpkg --get-selections + dpkg --set-selections ;)
[11:33] <bob2> haha xml
[11:34] <Treenaks> bob2: if it's XML, it must be good!
[11:34] <sivang> lol
[11:34] <sivang> why not xml? (or RDF )
[11:34] <bob2> because it's pointless bloat
[11:35] <bob2> if you want to transofmr dpkg --get-selections output to and from xml, go for it
[11:35] <daniels> sometimes XML is useful
[11:35] <daniels> this is not one of those times
[11:35] <daniels> i did a little flat-file format for debbackup
[11:35] <daniels> worked fine
[11:36] <daniels> please god no
[11:36] <infinity> daniels : My chip isn't an RV370, by any chance, is it?...
[11:36] <\sh> Treenaks: bah ;)
[11:36] <daniels> infinity: it is
[11:36] <daniels> infinity: you get full acceleration by default now
[11:36] <infinity> \o/
[11:36] <daniels> for better or worse
[11:36] <infinity> I can move my windows again!
[11:36] <daniels> you could do this with Option "FullAccel" anyway
[11:36] <infinity> I can't wait.
[11:37] <infinity> Oh, now you tell me.
[11:37] <daniels> you never asked
[11:37] <infinity> "Daniel, why is my X so shit slow?"
[11:37] <bob2> daniel, why is *my* X so shit slow?
[11:38] <sivang> lol
[11:40] <kamstrup> There is a profound confusion in the ArtTeam...
[11:40] <Treenaks> kamstrup: why?
[11:40] <kamstrup> Does anybody in here actually know what we are expected to do?
[11:40] <infinity> Art!
[11:41] <kamstrup> infinity: I knew it!
[11:41] <Lathiat> daniels: my X login got so stupidly fast! yay!
[11:41] <infinity> Hope that helps.
[11:41] <Treenaks> kamstrup: isn't that the definition of art btw? :)
[11:41] <mvo> sivang: you can use python-apt for this
[11:41] <ogra> morning
[11:42] <kamstrup> Well, if we submit a full theme, will it even be considered for inclusion?
[11:42] <sivang> mvo: I will, thank you
[11:42] <sivang> morning ogra , what's up?
[11:42] <infinity> Argh, brain hurting, changed too many things at once, lost track, need break.
[11:42] <infinity> (ps: l-r-m is evil)
[11:42] <ogra> Mithrandir, is that in your xinerama setup ? 
[11:42] <kamstrup> We are afraid to invest to much time without knowing what will become of the result
[11:42] <infinity> Mithrandir : My lrm upload may fix your ia32-libs thing.  I'll test on a chroot here and see when I'm done.
[11:43] <bob2> kamstrup: any of the MOTUs can upload a theme for you
[11:43] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes
[11:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: can you reproduce the problem at all?
[11:43] <infinity> Mithrandir : Haven't tried yet, but I can spot where the problem may be....
[11:43] <pitti> ogra: /usr/share/man/man1/xscreensaver-getimage.1.gz bug is known, I suppose?
[11:43] <infinity> Mithrandir : I'll play with it in a bit, when I'm done confusing myself with my current changes.
[11:44] <kamstrup> Yeah, but what about the "Ubuntu Art Challenge" mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopArtwork
[11:44] <ogra> pitti, nope ?
[11:45] <Mithrandir> infinity: ok, since I can't.
[11:45] <mvo> pitti: I added the aptitude problem as #15871 (severity: major)
[11:46] <bob2> er
[11:46] <pitti> mvo: thanks
[11:46] <bob2> installing or upgrading anything that requires restarting dbus takes my network down
[11:46] <mvo> pitti: feel free to add stuff that I have forgoten :)
[11:46] <Treenaks> bob2: networkmanager coolness?
[11:46] <pitti> bob2: hm, we don't restart dbus any more
[11:46] <bob2> Treenaks: it rocks!
[11:47] <bob2> pitti: gnome-power-manager did
[11:47] <pitti> bob2: ouch, that should be fixed
[11:47] <pitti> bob2: it should reload the config files, not more
[11:47] <Treenaks> bob2: that would mean it actually works
[11:48] <bob2> Treenaks: it seems to work ok
[11:48] <Treenaks> bob2: it never did for me :(
[11:55] <\sh> seb128_: evolution is crashing when I get a mail with this attachment style:
[11:55] <\sh> Content-Type: text/calendar; name="www.open-xchange.org/task.ics"; charset=us-ascii
[11:55] <\sh> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
[11:55] <\sh> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="www.open-xchange.org/task.ics"
[11:56] <seb128_> \sh: backtrace ?
[11:57] <\sh> seb128_: bugbuddy? ;) or should i file it in bugzilla for you?
[11:57] <seb128> put it on pastebin.com to start
[11:57] <seb128> maybe that's already known
[11:57] <\sh> seb128: give me a short hint for debugging libs for gnome ;) 
[11:58] <\sh> and especially for evolution calendar,-)
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can you reproduce 15549? (I'm just wondering if it's powerpc-specific)
[12:00] <\sh> seb128: http://pastebin.com/368831
[12:00] <seb128> \sh: get it crashing, click on the "send bug upstream", get a backtrace from bug-buddy :)
[12:01] <\sh> seb128: did already :)
[12:01] <\sh> seb128: I think it's because of the filename...cause it's not correct, is it?
[12:01] <\sh> brb
[12:02] <seb128> \sh: maybe
[12:02] <seb128> \sh: could you rebuild evolution-data-server with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip set, the bug seems to be not known upstream
[12:03] <dholbach> and be sure to install all the necessary -dbg packages :)
[12:03] <seb128> dholbach: there is no for e-d-s :(
[12:04] <dholbach> then at least for libgtk2.0-dev, libgnome2-dev, libgnomeui-dev, libsoup2.2-dev
[12:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you'll have to wait a bit while I upgrade the relevant chroot
[12:10] <doko> seb128: does gnome use /etc/mailcap?
[12:10] <seb128> doko: no
[12:11] <doko> seb128: where can I find the mimetypes and applications, which gnome uses?
[12:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure
[12:17] <seb128> doko: /usr/share/mime/, that's the freedesktop shared-mime-info package
[12:17] <seb128> doko: the "standard" list is /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml but apps can install other definitions to /usr/share/mime/packages/
[12:19] <doko> seb128: is there a debhelper/other utility, installing into this directory?
[12:20] <dholbach> doko: usually the build systems themselves take care of it
[12:20] <Kamion> elmo: please sync partman-partitioning 36 from Debian
[12:20] <seb128> doko: dh_installmime
[12:22] <siretart> is the kernel module sk98lin not beeing build in breezy kernel for a reason?
[12:23] <mvo> siretart: it does not work very well for some people
[12:24] <siretart> mvo: well, I have to make this hardware here work, and it happens to have a marvel chipset :/
[12:24] <mvo> siretart: have you tried skge?
[12:25] <siretart> skge?
[12:25] <Lathiat> siretart: the marvel gigabit driver with no support?
[12:25] <siretart> lets try
[12:25] <siretart> Lathiat: dunno, never seen that
[12:26] <siretart> mvo: skge does not say anythin, the hardware has pci id: 11ab:4362
[12:27] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, just confirmed... mozilla-firefox-locale-pt-pt is not installed as it should in the breezy installation. Is it included in the CD right? 
[12:28] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, In any case, even with network installation support, in the end is not installed.
[12:29] <mvo> siretart: see #15299. it maybe a yukon2 that is not supported by skge (what does "dmesg" say after you inserted the module?)
[12:30] <siretart> mvo: nothing :(
[12:30] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: nope, it is not on the CD
[12:30] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: so language-support-pt was not installed? although you agreed to, and network was functioning?
[12:31] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, ok... so the problem then seems to be that the network was not functioning during install and no warning is issued in this case?
[12:31] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: good - we don't want to pester people who don't have a working network
[12:31] <WaterSevenUb> pitti, the network is working in the end but the sources pt.archive.... are not.
[12:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: mysql-server doesn't start up properly here, although I'm not sure the symptoms are the same
[12:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, does mysql_install_db work correctly?
[12:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ah, yes, pretty similar symptoms
[12:32] <Kamion> Sep 20 11:29:52 cairhien mysqld_safe[21214] : ERROR: 3  Error writing file './mysql/db.frm' (Errcode: 22)
[12:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no, mysql_install_db fails in the same way
[12:33] <Kamion> should that really be ./mysql, rather than /var/lib/mysql or /var/lib/mysql/mysql or something?
[12:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: bingo, so it's ppc-specific.
[12:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no idea, really.  I don't have a (working) ppc so it's a bit hard to track down.
[12:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do you have time for it or should I throw it at infinity?  (He's got a ppc, doesn't he?)
[12:35] <Kamion> [pid 21529]  pwrite64(5, "\376\1\7\t\3\0\0\20\1\0\0000\0\0\276\1\231\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 64, 18446744073692708607) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
[12:35] <Kamion> that's odd
[12:36] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'll have a quick look
[12:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks a lot
[12:57] <Keybuk> question for Mac OS X people from my sister (which I have no idea about) ... how do you add a dial-up internet connection to it?
[12:57] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: "boot Ubuntu live cd [...] "
[12:57] <Mithrandir> ;P
[12:57] <Keybuk> other than that! 
[12:58] <Zomb> what does the live CD use as the root filesystem, Ext2?
[12:58] <sivang> mvo: I guess this is ok ? In [1] :import apt
[12:58] <sivang> /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/apt/__init__.py:17: FutureWarning: apt API not stable yet
[12:58] <Treenaks> Keybuk: you call apple, and buy the option?
[12:58] <sivang>   warnings.warn("apt API not stable yet", FutureWarning)
[12:58] <Mithrandir> Zomb: ext2, I think, yes.  On cloop.
[12:58] <sivang> Keybuk: there's a dial up manager somewhere
[12:58] <sivang> Keybuk: it also used to create dial in broadband connections
[12:59] <sivang> Keybuk: I can't recall it's name though..
[12:59] <mvo> sivang: yes, it warns you that the api (for the module "apt") is not stable yet :)
[12:59] <sivang> mvo: I guess you put that warning there? ;-)
[01:00] <mvo> sivang: yes, so that people don't complain too loudly if something breaks. and it won't break before breezy+1 opens :)
[01:01] <sivang> mvo: nice, btw, so how can I achive the parallel to --get-selection , using the Cache module?
[01:03] <sivang> mvo: oh cool I instantiated a Cach class and the keys are the pakcages, yay
[01:04] <mvo> sivang: yes, then you can use "if cache[pkgname] .isInstalled: p"
[01:05] <sivang> mvo: so cool :)
[01:07] <mvo> sivang: the apt module is not very complete. feel free to ask for stuff that is missing for you. the apt_pkg is more complete, but much less convenient
[01:08] <sivang> mvo: is it hard to hack on it to extend it?
[01:09] <Mithrandir> infinity: getting anywhere with the -legacy stuff?
[01:09] <mvo> sivang: the apt module is very easy to extend, all python, basicly only wraping apt_pkg. apt_pkg OTOH is a hand-writen wraper around libapt. it's not overly complicated to work on, but more work
[01:10] <sivang> mvo: I see, thx for that info - what about apt.Package, how do I make it reference a specific pkg?
[01:11] <mvo> sivang: pkg = cache["apt"] 
[01:11] <mvo> (I assume that is what you are looking for?
[01:11] <sivang> mvo: yes, exactly. thanks
[01:12] <mvo> sivang: cheers
[01:15] <Keybuk> can anyone think of a bad reason to change the group of /dev/ttyUSB* of a known palm pilot from "dialout" to "plugdev" (or some other suggested group?)
[01:24] <Mithrandir> elmo: please change PaS to allow valgrind to build on amd64.
[01:28] <\sh> seb128: ok will do 
[01:28] <seb128> thanks
[01:33] <sivang> Diziet: debian-w32 ?? ;)
[01:33] <sivang> Diziet: (one of the squares)
[01:41] <infinity> Mithrandir : Taking a break for a while, it'll be uploaded before I go to bed tonight (so, in the next 3 or 4 hours)
[01:41] <Mithrandir> infinity: ok, sure
[01:41] <infinity> Mithrandir : I'll close your bug while I'm at it, if I feel what I've done fixed it.
[01:41] <Zomb> sivang: lame. We need a d-i port to CoLinux.
[01:41] <infinity> Mithrandir : If not, I'll let you know.
[01:46] <infinity> Kamion : Did you sort that mysql-on-ppc issue?
[01:46] <infinity> Kamion : In the past, I've tripped over pread/pwrite being buggy on some arches (and ppc was one of them), so you may be running into that.
[01:48] <Kamion> infinity: not yet, still trying to get it to build with debug on
[01:48] <infinity> Kamion : Kay, if you give up, pass it off to me, just ping me in /msg to let me know.
[01:48] <sivang> Zomb: sorry? 
[01:48] <Kamion> infinity: look at the fourth arg to pwrite in that trace, though - it's clearly rubbish
[01:48] <infinity> Kamion : I've joined The Debian MySQL group too, so it's sort of in my realm now.
[01:48] <Kamion> infinity: so either strace is wrong or mysql has something that looks suspiciously like an endianness bug
[01:49] <Zomb> sivang: ?? CoLinux is kinda UML running in win32 environment.
[01:49] <infinity> I'd bet on the latter, though MySQL tends to be reasonably clean, so it'd be odd for it to crop up just now.
[01:49] <Kamion> $ bc -lq
[01:49] <Kamion> obase=16
[01:49] <Kamion> 18446744073692708607
[01:49] <Kamion> FFFFFFFFFEFEFEFF
[01:49] <Kamion> hmm
[01:49] <desrt> DBUS daemon
[01:49] <desrt> Reboot recommended
[01:49] <desrt> A new version of the DBUS daemon has just been installed. You should restart
[01:49] <desrt> your machine soon so that the new version becomes effective.
[01:49] <desrt> cute.
[01:50] <ogra> bah
[01:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ping?
[01:50] <infinity> Kamion : Just wait until your debug build makes the bug go away.
[01:50] <desrt> HAL daemon
[01:50] <desrt> Reboot recommended
[01:50] <desrt> A new version of the Hardware Abstraction Layer daemon has just been
[01:50] <desrt> installed. You should restart your machine soon so that the new version
[01:50] <desrt> becomes effective.
[01:50] <desrt> very cute.
[01:50] <bob2> yay dbus upstream
[01:50] <Kamion> is it trying to do pwrite() to a negative offset?
[01:50] <sladen> Zomb: coLinux for the LiveCD was an idea if you can find a fast+decent+easy X server for Windows
[01:50] <sivang> Zomb: oh :)
[01:50] <ogra> hww, we should rename them to dbus-w32 and hal-w32
[01:50] <desrt> pitti; stop hurting me!
[01:50] <desrt> y'all suck :p
[01:50] <sivang> desrt: we have a BOF planned for that :-)
[01:51] <pitti> desrt: sorry, I was asked to do that
[01:51] <desrt> what the hell is a BOF?
[01:51] <pitti> ogra: hm?
[01:51] <Mithrandir> fabbione: pong
[01:51] <Kamion> birds of [a]  feather session - conference jargon
[01:51] <ogra> pitti, rebbot after upgrade :)
[01:51] <desrt> ahh
[01:51] <sladen> Keybuk: a palm isn't really dial out...  but the assumption made by several programs is that all serial users -are- dialout
[01:51] <pitti> Riddell: bah, libapt-front is not something I would like to put into main - you really want it, do you?
[01:51] <ogra> pitti, thats a win32 feature :)
[01:51] <desrt> sivang; good luck with upstream :)
[01:52] <bob2> the canonical conference meaning of BOF is not really the same as the normal conference sense, tho
[01:52] <ogra> sivang, no bof will change SuSEs decision...
[01:52] <desrt> sivang; upstream libdbus is actively hostile toward the idea of bus-reconnection
[01:52] <sivang> desrt: why so?
[01:52] <desrt> sivang; 1) it exit()'s on disconnect
[01:53] <bob2> sivang: because they upgrade in one go every year and are happy to reboot to do so
[01:53] <desrt> 2) it keeps the system bus connection cached as an internal global variable
[01:53] <sivang> bob2: lol :)
[01:53] <bob2> (seriously)
[01:53] <desrt> so if you want to  destroy the DBusConnection and recreate it... uhm... you basically can't
[01:53] <ogra> bob2, its SuSE, they dont upgrade, they reinstall
[01:53] <bob2> haha
[01:53] <sivang> hehehe
[01:53] <bob2> even better
[01:53] <desrt> since all calls to get_system_bus() or whatever will see (and return) the cached value
[01:54] <sivang> why don't we find a way to keep alive the daemon ?
[01:54] <dilinger> my gf is forced to use suse for work
[01:54] <sivang> as in, have one do-nothing connection that would keep it up
[01:54] <desrt> sivang; we have a way -- don't restart it :)
[01:54] <dilinger> it seems to constantly be broken :/
[01:54] <Riddell> pitti: why do you not want it in main?
[01:54] <ogra> dilinger, poor girl
[01:54] <sivang> dilinger: me too :-(
[01:54] <pitti> Riddell: it's an unversioned static library
[01:54] <sivang> dilinger: I do hard regression and stress testing on that..
[01:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: did you have time to look at lrm ?
[01:54] <pitti> Riddell: that means, bug fixes, security updates, and API changes are a PITA
[01:54] <fabbione> for the nvidia-legacy?
[01:55] <sivang> desrt: but then how you upgrade the in memory running code?
[01:55] <desrt> sivang; anyway... if you plan to have this socalled 'bof' at ubz make sure i'm invited
[01:55] <desrt> sivang; you reboot :)
[01:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: uhm, infty did that
[01:55] <sivang> desrt: hey, it's not me ! :) I need to see who's does that, I'm just inrested, as you
[01:55] <desrt> sivang; or you do it manually with the initscript under the understanding that stuff will break
[01:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: oh ok
[01:55] <Riddell> pitti: the only programs which use it are made by the same author so far
[01:55] <sivang> desrt: I would know better then claiming I Know about dbus other then it's somekind of gizmo to send objects as messages etc :)
[01:56] <desrt> sivang; i filed the bug asking martin to not restart dbus... but i'm not happy about it.
[01:56] <desrt> anyway.  i need to hop like a bunny to school.  cheers!
[01:56] <sivang> desrt: cheers
[01:56] <seb128> Riddell: kpdf uses poppler, right? Do you have some issues with cidtype fonts?
[01:56] <pitti> Riddell: right, but it should be done properly nevertheless; building a shared lib can't be hard
[01:57] <Riddell> seb128: it doesn't use poppler yet no
[01:57] <seb128> Riddell: k
[01:57] <ogra> has anybody investigated why firefox uses nimbus sans as default font in breezy ? 
[01:57] <bob2> the monospace font is worse
[01:57] <bob2> where worse = unreadable
[01:57] <Riddell> pitti: it's not a shared lib yet because he does expect to make API changes 
[01:58] <ogra> bob2, i cant see any changes in fontconfig that could cause it...
[01:58] <pitti> Riddell: so a change in libapt-front would require to adapt and rebuild all reverse build-deps
[02:02] <Riddell> pitti: yep, but since adept and libapt-front are made by the same person changes and releases are made at the same time
[02:02] <\sh> seb128: ok http://pastebin.com/368899
[02:03] <Riddell> pitti: and presumably it'll be a shared library by the time other projects start to pick it up, I can ask the author to make sure that's all correct
[02:03] <mvo> Riddell: I'm pretty sure that is the case 
[02:04] <Riddell> pitti: see, even mvo agrees :)
[02:05] <seb128> \sh: that's not a debug build
[02:05] <Riddell> the same thing goes for the debtags depends
[02:05] <seb128> \sh: file /usr/lib/libecal-1.2.so.3.1.4
[02:05] <\sh> seb128: I had to kill the data server i think
[02:06] <seb128> \sh: gdb get the symboles without restart
[02:06] <seb128> I mean no restart of the app
[02:06] <\sh> strippt
[02:07] <\sh> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS := nostrip
[02:08] <Keybuk> weird, why isn't a lot of my bugzilla traffic showing up on bugs-dist ?
[02:08] <Riddell> what is the session dbus used for?
[02:09] <seb128> \sh: what is that?
[02:09] <ogra> Riddell, session IPC
[02:09] <ogra> Riddell, its bound to the user
[02:10] <seb128> \sh: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip apt-get source -b
[02:10] <\sh> seb128: can't i set it in the rules file?
[02:10] <Riddell> ogra: any examples of what will break if I don't use it?
[02:10] <seb128> \sh: I've not tried it
[02:11] <\sh> seb128: i rebuild again ;) np
[02:11] <ogra> Riddell, apps that use the session bus indeed...
[02:12] <seb128> \sh: don't both, you can cp the lib from the builddir to /usr/lib 
[02:12] <ogra> Riddell, these should have a dependency on dbus...
[02:12] <fabbione> seb128: yo
[02:12] <Riddell> update-notifier for example
[02:12] <seb128> fabbione: hi
[02:12] <fabbione> seb128: how did your kernel test go?
[02:12] <\sh> seb128: I want to be sure ;)
[02:13] <seb128> fabbione: the inotify patch works but they have updated the patch since
[02:13] <seb128> fabbione: the linux built went fine, thanks for the indications on how to do :)
[02:13] <fabbione> seb128: ok, just remember that we have kernel full freeze in less than 9 days
[02:13] <fabbione> so if there is any patch that must go in, it has to be asap
[02:14] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, BenC said he'll put it with the next upload
[02:14] <mvo> Riddell: update-notifier?
[02:15] <Riddell> mvo: seems to be an rdepend of dbus-1-utils
[02:15] <Riddell> dbus-1-utils brings in gtk so I'm wondering if I can either get rid of it for kubuntu or split out the bits that bring in gtk
[02:15] <fabbione> seb128: perfect
[02:16] <mvo> Riddell: it displays it's icon using libegg and that depends on gtk. there will be no way around that, sorry
[02:17] <\sh> Riddell: we have to rewrite update-notifier for kubuntu
[02:18] <\sh> Riddell: todo add "rewrite update-notifier for kubuntu" 
[02:19] <crispin> mvo: I noticed that the latest hal upload adds an update-notifier hook, and deletes it in the init script, shouldn't it use the magic "DontShowAfterReboot" flag ?
[02:19] <Riddell> mvo: it's dbus-1-utils I'm moaning about, update-notifier is just an example of something that uses it
[02:19] <mvo> crispin: yes
[02:20] <Riddell> \sh: adept already has an update program, adding a notifier will be pretty simple
[02:20] <pitti> crispin, mvo: oh, there is a "DontShowAfterReboot" attribute now?
[02:20] <pitti> Riddell: alright, but can you file a bug nevertheless?
[02:21] <\sh> Riddell: it should be an applet...something really small...
[02:21] <crispin> pitti: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13886
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: is removing the notification in the init script bad?
[02:21] <\sh> brb
[02:22] <mvo> pitti: no, it's fine
[02:22] <pitti> crispin: ah, pending upload - well, that flag makes sense for the kernel since it does not have its own init script
[02:23] <crispin> pitti: the change for update-notifier is already in there
[02:24] <Riddell> \sh: yes.  my point is that the hard part is done, the notifier is just a small thing :)
[02:24] <Riddell> pitti: sure
[02:32] <\sh> Riddell: yeah
[02:33] <hunger> Anyone having problems with ssh lately?
[02:33] <jdub> seb128: ping
[02:33] <hunger> I can not log into my account with it anymore using keys (from user account to user@localhost).
[02:35] <seb128> jdub: pong
[02:38] <Mithrandir> mjg59: wasn't 9101 fixed by pcmcia-cs (3.2.5-11ubuntu2) ?
[02:40] <mjg59> Probably, yes
[02:40] <\sh> seb128: http://pastebin.com/368929 no...it's not stripped
[02:40] <Mithrandir> mjg59: you close it or should ?
[02:40] <Mithrandir> I, even
[02:40] <mjg59> Feel free
[02:43] <Kamion> fabbione: re kernel freeze, I have two kernel udeb changes I need before then
[02:44] <mjg59> ahci needs to go in the sata udeb, sk98lin needs to go in the network device one
[02:44] <fabbione> Kamion: ok!
[02:44] <Kamion> #13506 is mjg59's ahci/sata-modules one; also #14736
[02:45] <seb128> \sh: #5  0xb7abda4d in icalvalue_get_text (value=0x0)
[02:45] <\sh> seb128: means?
[02:45] <seb128> \sh: I guess it doesn't like the value=0x0
[02:45] <fabbione> Kamion: gimme a few minutes and i will look at them
[02:45] <Kamion> thanks
[02:45] <seb128> \sh: do you have a bugzilla.gnome.org account to put that to a bugzilla?
[02:45] <\sh> seb128: no..but I will get one ;)
[02:46] <seb128> thanks
[02:47] <\sh> seb128: kmail works btw
[02:47] <seb128> \sh: and gimp too :)
[02:47] <seb128> is that "name a working app" game? :p
[02:48] <\sh> seb128: hmmm...how do i get evolution running again..i moved this stupid mail with kmail out of the way
[02:48] <seb128> \sh: anyway that's and e-d-s bug anyway, it should not crash, even on incorrect files
[02:48] <seb128> \sh: what do you mean?
[02:48] <seb128> \sh: evolution -c mail?
[02:48] <\sh> seb128: it's a mail which let evolution crashing ;) and it's in the summary files now...
[02:49] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. they are not too problematic..
[02:49] <fabbione> Kamion: i will work on them as soon as BenC is around
[02:50] <seb128> \sh: try asking on #evolution /gimpnet maybe
[02:50] <\sh> seb128: which backend should I choose? calendar or mailer?  it happens in the mailer at least...or the mail frontend
[02:50] <seb128> \sh: mailer, they will reassign if needed
[02:51] <fabbione> jbailey: is / over NFS known to be broken?
[02:51] <fabbione> ogra: does your ltsp client boot with today breezy?
[02:51] <fabbione> ogra: like bootstrapping the client side from scratch?
[02:53] <\sh> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316777
[02:53] <dholbach> bbl
[02:53] <ogra> fabbione, it did with yesterdays breezy and a fixed initramfs-tools from jabiley
[02:54] <\sh> seb128: can I remove this directory, it looks like it holds the summary infos for my imap account
[02:54] <ogra> fabbione, does it complain about line 64 in init ?
[02:54] <\sh> seb128: .evolution/mail/imap/src_0001@mail.kde-coder.de$
[02:54] <fabbione> ogra: no
[02:54] <fabbione> it seems it can't mount /
[02:54] <fabbione> or something like that
[02:54] <ogra> hmm
[02:55] <Kamion> fabbione: great, thanks
[02:55] <seb128> \sh: ask on #evolution rather, I don't want to make you trash some data ...
[02:55] <ogra> fabbione, i'll have to rsync and burn first... havent tested todays build yet
[02:55] <\sh> seb128: well...everything is on the server anyways...so lets try...
[02:55] <fabbione> ogra: just kill the client side
[02:55] <fabbione> ogra and run the ltsp-client-build whatever thingy
[02:55] <\sh> seb128: it's the summary folder...so don't worry ;)
[02:56] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem
[02:56] <Riddell> jdub: is it possible/sane to separate dbus-launch from dbus-1-utils to stop dbus-1-utils bringing in gtk et al unnecessarily?
[02:57] <jdub> Riddell: possibly, but that's going to be an ooky delta with debian, but doable. pitti is the man to talk to.
[02:58] <Riddell> pitti is debian-dbus@fooishbar.org?
[02:58] <fabbione> ogra it seems like nfsmount from initramfs is mounting / and return ok, but there is no FS mounted at all
[02:58] <ogra> hmm
[02:59] <jdub> Riddell: martin has done the most work on it in ubuntu
[02:59] <fabbione> i can see the client and server are talking
[02:59] <jbailey> fabbione: All I have is Ogra's report from yesterday.
[02:59] <fabbione> jbailey: i bootstrapped the overall no more than 20 minutes ago 
[02:59] <jbailey> fabbione: P'haps I will setup that other box as a thin client today for testing.
[02:59] <fabbione> mirror is updated
[03:00] <jbailey> fabbione: What arch?
[03:00] <fabbione> i386
[03:00] <Riddell> pitti: thoughts on separating dbus-launch from dbus-1-utils?
[03:00] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, that initramfs-tools update seems to have fixed things for various people
[03:00] <mjg59> Now we just need to work out the LVM case
[03:00] <pitti> Riddell: no, that's daniels
[03:00] <fabbione> jbailey: the only thing i see from the client is "NFS over TCP not available from $serverip"
[03:00] <fabbione> jbailey: if you can remember how to force TCP at server level, i can give it a shot
[03:00] <Riddell> does anyone want to own up to owning dbus?? :)
[03:00] <pitti> Riddell: splitting out should be possible, as long as dbus-1-utils can depend on dbus-launch
[03:01] <Riddell> daniels: any objections to that?
[03:01] <jbailey> fabbione: My tests before didn't go much beyong, install kernel-nfs-server, debootstrap, set mount points and go, and it Just Worked.
[03:01] <pitti> Riddell: daniels has some experience in splitting packages :-P
[03:02] <pitti> Riddell: I can do it, not a biggie, but daniels' opinion is appreciated
[03:02] <seb128> before splitting dbus maybe speak with sjoerd?
[03:02] <seb128> to be sure than Debian will split it the same way
[03:02] <fabbione> jbailey: that's what ltsp does :)
[03:03] <pitti> seb128: good call
[03:03] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
[03:03] <Keybuk> elmo: ping?
[03:04] <infinity> Kamion : Did you and mysql come to an understanding?
[03:05] <jbailey> fabbione: Mmm.  klibc hasn't changed since Ogra's snapshot, so if it's nfsmount having issues, it seems that it's likely a server setup. =(
[03:05] <slomo> hm, does someone know a bit about the python webbrowser module? open(uri) should open the uri and not the default homepage, correct?
[03:05] <mbreit> infinity: is there a problem with scons on the buildds? i now have two packages which do not build on the buildd but work find in pbuilder...
[03:05] <Kamion> infinity: it fails to build with -O0 -g
[03:05] <fabbione> jbailey: hmm i doubt.. that didn't change either :)
[03:05] <Kamion> grrrrrrrrr
[03:06] <fabbione> jbailey: well let me try some stuff
[03:06] <Kamion> I've reproduced it under gdb, but without symbols or line numbers or anything it's kind of a pig
[03:06] <jbailey> fabbione: Excellent!  Time to pull out the packet sniffer and see who's right. =)
[03:07] <infinity> Kamion : NEAT!
[03:07] <Kamion> missing destructor symbols or some similar C++ crap
[03:07] <fabbione> jbailey: i think i got it
[03:08] <fabbione> yeah there we go
[03:08] <infinity> Kamion : Is there an open bug about this?
[03:08] <fabbione> jbailey: ltsp nfs server for some odd reasons needs to be restarted...
[03:08] <Kamion> infinity: can't see one in Debian at least
[03:09] <infinity> That's cause it works in Debian.
[03:09] <fabbione> jbailey: no worries :)
[03:09] <infinity> I meant in Ubuntu, and I found the bug.
[03:10] <infinity> Kamion : How loudly do you think I'd get yelled at for suggesting we promote mysql-4.1 to the default, and do a VERY quick transition?  (it was in my ServerRoadmap, but I never got around to it)
[03:10] <jbailey> fabbione: Excellent! =)
[03:11] <infinity> (Yeah, yeah, I should just find/fix the bug tomorrow)
[03:12] <Surak> Hello. Is this my impression or latest breezy's openoffice are not working with cups anymore?
[03:12] <infinity> Riddell : ping.
[03:13] <ogra> fabbione, erm... thast done by ltsp-server-standalne's postinst normally
[03:13] <Riddell> infinity: hi
[03:14] <Kamion> infinity: my inclination's definitely no
[03:14] <infinity> Riddell : Can you look at #14595 for me?... It has your name all over it (even in the changelog)
[03:14] <infinity> Kamion : Yeah, I know.  It was a thinking out loud thing.
[03:15] <Mithrandir> jbailey: 15779; _YU doesn't seem to be in i18n/SUPPORTED?
[03:15] <infinity> Kamion : I'll add myself to the CC on this bug, and see if anyone (you?) has gotten anywhere before I wake up.  If not, I'll poke some more.
[03:16] <Kamion> infinity: ok, sounds good
[03:16] <Riddell> infinity: hmm, yes.  I'm testing daily CDs just now but poke me again if I don't get back to you in a couple of hours
[03:16] <infinity> Riddell : KDE/QT and I don't get along much, so if you can reassign that one to you and fix it (pretty please), I'll say nice things about you for a WHOLE WEEK.
[03:18] <pitti> night infinity 
[03:18] <fabbione> ogra: i think the root cause is that i added an interface after nfs server was restarted. 
[03:18] <fabbione> infinity: good night
[03:18] <sivang> night infinity 
[03:18] <Surak> yes, it's my impression. hplip needs to be restarted some times.
[03:19] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I need to do another locales pass shortly to catch all of those.
[03:20] <ogra> fabbione, ah :)
[03:20] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I'm trying to talk Jordi into generating all of the locales package from Rosetta and making it Not My Problem. =)
[03:20] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ah. :-)
[03:20] <pitti> Riddell: is sanekonsole deliberately a native package?
[03:21] <ogra> pitti, where did gstreamer0.8-polypaudio go ? 
[03:21] <ogra> any idea ?
[03:22] <jonathan-fc> pitti: i need that package ogra mentioned quite badly ;)
[03:23] <infinity> Riddell : Actually, I'll reassign it for you.  What's your bz ID?
[03:23] <ogra> jonathan-fc, probably we have a new way to handle polyp and the package isnt needed anymore...
[03:24] <pitti> ogra, jonathan-fc: we do not buuild it any more since polypaudio is not supported in breezy
[03:24] <ogra> pitti, not even for universe ? 
[03:24] <Diziet> There are _four_ copies of the code in netstat to truncate the address field.  One for TCP local end, one for TCP remote end, one for UDP local end, one for TCP local end.  They're all identical.  Bah!
[03:24] <pitti> ogra: building it would mean to pull polypaudio into main
[03:25] <Diziet> I think I'll grep the code for `22' to find any I missed.
[03:25] <jbailey> Diziet: Refactoring is for wimps.
[03:26] <jonathan-fc> ogra: can i use anything else as replacements for alsasink, osssink, etc in gnome multimedia systems selector?
[03:26] <Diziet> Um, that last should be UDP remote end of course.  But you were all bored by that point, just like I was.
[03:27] <Kamion> of course that assumes I know how to drive josie
[03:28] <jbailey> fab-ltsp: =0
[03:28] <jbailey> =)
[03:28] <fab-ltsp> ehhe
[03:28] <ogra> yay
[03:28] <infinity> Kamion : You can just cheat.  <cough>
[03:28] <fab-ltsp> yeah i need to write some documentation on how to setup NAT/routing for ltsp clients on the server
[03:28] <ogra> fab-ltsp, now get sound working on the thin client ;)
[03:28] <pitti> seb128, dholbach: is g-keyring-manager something we want in main? I thought it crashes all over the place?
[03:28] <seb128> does anybody knows why there is no build for valgrind amd64?
[03:28] <fab-ltsp> ogra: hmm let me try
[03:29] <seb128> apt-cache showsrc says it's i386 amd64
[03:29] <fab-ltsp> seb128, PAS
[03:29] <ogra> fab-ltsp, wont work :) dont waste time :)
[03:29] <fab-ltsp> seb128, there is a file that needs manual editing on the buildds
[03:29] <ogra> not without NAS at least
[03:29] <seb128> fab-ltsp: we will have it for 5.10?
[03:29] <fab-ltsp> ogra: yeah i was just thinking about it
[03:29] <seb128> pitti: it's a part of the GNOME desktop so probably
[03:29] <fab-ltsp> seb128, i think Mith did the request for it today already
[03:30] <fabbione> ok
[03:30] <seb128> pitti: I'm just too busy to make wiki pages for everything atm
[03:30] <pitti> seb128: don't worry about that
[03:30] <pitti> seb128: I'm just interested in its stability
[03:30] <pitti> since I heard bad things about it recently
[03:30] <seb128> pitti: it's an official part of the GNOME desktop, so it should be quite fine
[03:30] <pitti> ok
[03:31] <seb128> pitti: I don't use it a lot but I never had issue with it, do we any bug about that or bt ?
[03:31] <seb128> pitti: or is that just random luser making noise again on the wrong list?
[03:31] <seb128> :)
[03:31] <seb128> pitti: I read some mails on the list yeah, but I don't give them any credit. Let's wait for a backtrace
[03:32] <seb128> pitti: upstream bugzilla has a total of 15 bugs for it an nothing with a severity up to normal
[03:32] <seb128> ie: no crasher
[03:41] <pitti> ogra: what about mknbi? I can't approve it since it is FTBFS
[03:41] <pitti> ogra: oh, wait, it is i386 only?
[03:41] <bddebian> Hello
[03:41] <pitti> Hi bddebian 
[03:41] <Riddell> infinity: jriddell@ubuntu.com
[03:41] <Riddell> pitti: how do you mean native?
[03:42] <bddebian> pitti: Hi.  I'm back "attempting" pgtcl :-)
[03:42] <pitti> Riddell: no orig.tar.gz and a huge tar.gz
[03:42] <ogra> pitti, drop it, its only a Recommends now, mdz changed it immediately
[03:42] <pitti> bddebian: cool; feel free to /msg me questions related to packaging
[03:42] <pitti> ogra: ah, cool
[03:42] <bddebian> pitti: Great thanks
[03:42] <ogra> pitti, tuxpaint-stamps and mimetex would be more interesting for edubuntu :)
[03:43] <pitti> ogra: I'm close to make the queue empty
[03:43] <ogra> yay
[03:43] <pitti> ogra: mimetex is the last item on it
[03:44] <bob2> /var/lib/NetworkManager/
[03:44] <ogra> pitti, did you recieve any answer about mediawiki from mdz ? 
[03:44] <bob2> w. t. f.
[03:44] <pitti> ogra: none I can remember
[03:44] <ogra> bob2, whats wrong with that ? lets introduce wiki style for all directorys !
[03:44] <ogra> :)
[03:45] <bddebian> pitti: Well I'm almost there.  It builds libpgtcl1.5.so and puts it in /blah/blah/blah/debian/tmp/usr/lib...  But it never "installs" it to /usr/lib
[03:45] <pitti> bddebian: I /msg you
[03:47] <markuman> i hope i don t disturbed  and i am in the right channel. im trying to build a .deb from source. it creat only a .orig.tar.gz, .dsc, .diff   http://paste.debian.net/1978
[03:48] <Riddell> pitti: yes, that's how he wants to do it and that's how it's going to be in debian so I didn't want to change it
[03:48] <pitti> Riddell: ok
[03:48] <bob2> markuman: that's what a Debian source package is...
[03:49] <pitti> markuman: this source package is broken, so it can't be built in the first place
[03:50] <pitti> ogra: hey - mimetex looks highly useful 
[03:50] <ogra> doe it ? 
[03:50] <ogra> does even
[03:51] <pitti> ogra: at least I learn about the wealth of packages while doing these reviews
[03:51] <ogra> heh
[03:51] <pitti> ogra: yes, /me loves LaTeX :-)
[03:51] <ogra> ah, yes, i forgot...
[03:52] <sivang> pitti: what do you like it so much martin ?
[03:52] <ogra> :)
[03:52] <sivang> bob2: is it beneficial to install netowrk-manager ?
[03:52] <pitti> sivang: mimetex - nice idea :-)
[03:52] <bob2> sivang: it's shiney and uses dbus
[03:53] <sivang> bob2: k ;)
[03:53] <ogra> shiney == hilarious broken crack ? 
[03:53] <bob2> sivang: it appears to be less unstable than netapplet, too
[03:53] <Nafallo> lol @ ogra :-)
[03:53] <sivang> bob2: hmm, interesting, none of them are installed over my breezy upgraded machine
[03:54] <bob2> sivang: yes, it's in universe and not installed by default
[03:54] <ogra> sivang, n-m stayed in universe for a reason :)
[03:54] <pitti> bob2: well, anything is more stable than netapplet, given that it immediately generates a kernel oops :-/
[03:54] <Nafallo> ogra: cause it's "shiney"? ;-)
[03:54] <bob2> hahahah
[03:54] <bob2> pitti: iz kernel bug ;p
[03:55] <bob2> sivang: among other things, it runs it's own magic dhcp client and copy of bind9
[03:55] <pitti> bob2: it worked quite fine in hoary, and I actually liked it :-(
[03:55] <ogra> bob2, nahh, iz gtk boog
[03:55] <Nafallo> the damn thing (NM) gave me an 169.* ip when it couldn't find a dhcp :-P
[03:55] <sivang> bob2: is that a good thing? why mirror their functionality ?
[03:55] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: aka link-local
[03:55] <bob2> Nafallo: which is reasonable, so you can still talk to local machines
[03:55] <ogra> bob2, since our compiler depends on gtk, everything is a gtk bug :)
[03:56] <bob2> haha
[03:56] <Nafallo> Mithrandir, bob2: I was debugging why I didn't get an IP from my ISP ;-).
[03:56] <bob2> sivang: it uses bind9 as an ultra-heavy-duty programmable resolver
[03:56] <bob2> pity broker.aarnet won't give me rdns for my /48
[03:56] <Nafallo> it did _not_ help to get that microsoft-crap ;-)
[03:56] <ogra> and it fiddles badly with resolv.conf 
[03:56] <sivang> Nafallo: that's acutally a good thing - my gf could have used it on her uni library where they use this same method for their win32 clients. ("Private IP config")
[03:57] <bob2> "fiddles badly" is too polite
[03:57] <sivang> hehe
[03:57] <bob2> it pillages it and tell you never to touch it again
[03:57] <Nafallo> sivang: it's a bad thing for me :-P
[03:57] <sivang> Nafallo: ;)
[03:58] <bob2> oh man
[03:58] <sivang> bob2: I guess it wants it all to itself :)
[03:58] <bob2> finding the management UI for my AP somewhere in 10/8 is going to take a while
[03:59] <ogra> elmo, please sync mediawiki from debian NEW
[03:59] <bob2> haha
[03:59] <bob2> what could possibly go wrong?
[03:59] <elmo> ogra: NEW isn't public
[03:59] <bddebian> heh
[04:00] <ogra> elmo, err, you cant access it ? 
[04:00] <elmo> ogra: not as an Ubuntu developer no
[04:00] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please allow valgrind to build on amd64 by editing PaS?
[04:00] <ogra> hmmkay... then i'll wait until it passed ...
[04:00] <elmo> Mithrandir: no - get it fixed in P-a-s upstream
[04:01] <infinity> Mithrandir : I'll fix upstream P-a-s for you.
[04:01] <Mithrandir> infinity: yay, thanks.
[04:02] <infinity> Mithrandir : Do we want all of its deps too?
[04:02] <infinity> alleyoop and callgrind.
[04:03] <Mithrandir> infinity: those have valgrind as rdeps?
[04:03] <Mithrandir> infinity: I don't know, I can test them
[04:04] <infinity> Mithrandir : Yes, they both depend on valgrind, hence are in P-a-s as well.
[04:05] <daniels> Riddell: i'm not sure I see the point, but whatever
[04:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: yes please.
[04:05] <daniels> Riddell: ask sjoerd, since he's the primary maintainer these days
[04:05] <infinity> I'll let them in, they both look like frontends.  Should work.
[04:05] <daniels> Riddell: if he's okay, go nuts
[04:05] <daniels> Riddell: but I don't really see whyu
[04:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: alleyoop doesn't like the valgrind version, but I'll track that down, hopefully
[04:06] <infinity> Mithrandir : Right, well, if it's broken on i386, it won't be less broken on amd64.
[04:06] <Mithrandir> infinity: mpe. :-)
[04:06] <infinity> elmo : Done, can you sync P-a-s? :)
[04:07] <elmo> infinity: at some stage it'd be nice if we could fix P-a-s instead of using n-f-u failed in w-b
[04:08] <elmo> infinity: (btw, next time space not tab between architectures, pls)
[04:08] <elmo> synced
... I tabbed?
[04:08] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks
[04:09] <elmo> +%calltree: i386        amd64                                                 # Valgrind 'skin'
[04:09] <elmo> or multiple space or something, I dunno, looks funny anyway
[04:09] <infinity> Oh, must have been vim messing with my head.  I used append mode, and it looked like a single space on my terminal.
[04:11] <daniels> Riddell: (fwiw, the primary debian dbus maintainers are myself, kinnison and sjoerd, in ascending order of usefulness lately; myself and pitti do it in ubuntu, but mainly pitti.)
[04:12] <Mithrandir> oh, go alleyoop.  Segfault.
[04:12] <Kamion> elmo: please sync partman-partitioning from unstable; ok to override Ubuntu changes
[04:13] <Mithrandir> ah, that was just because I forgot to forward X
[04:14] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok to sync hotkey-setup from Debian? Fixes a failure to set up hotkeys on non-tablet HPs
[04:14] <elmo> Kamion: done
[04:14] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[04:14] <pitti> ah, hi sjoerd, how are you
[04:14] <Kamion> thanks
[04:15] <pitti> sjoerd: Riddel would like to have dbus-launch split out of the dbus-1-utils package to not pull in glib into Kubuntu
[04:15] <pitti> sjoerd: is that something you are entirely opposed to?
[04:16] <pitti> sjoerd: maintaining the split in Ubuntu is no big deal either, but it would be the only actual delta for now
[04:16] <sjoerd> aren't the kubuntu guys using glib through gstreamer yet ? :).. But no no real reason to be against it
[04:16] <Kamion> $ sh -n debian/init.d
[04:16] <Kamion> debian/init.d: line 29: syntax error near unexpected token `;;'
[04:16] <Kamion> debian/init.d: line 29: `    ;;'
[04:16] <elmo> doko: did mdz ok the oo split?
[04:16] <Kamion> mjg59: try working code next time kthxbye ;-)
[04:16] <pitti> Riddell: ^ what sjoerd asked
[04:17] <sjoerd> pitti: it's probably the best to put it in dbus anyway, so one doesn't need dbus-1-utils to startup the session bus
[04:17] <infinity> ARGH, I WAS TYPING, AND MY SCREENSAVER KICKED IN; DIE, GNOME-SCREENSAVER, DIE!
[04:17] <Kamion> mjg59: (I think you want the . hp.hk after the esac)
[04:17] <ogra> infinity, :'/
[04:17] <pitti> sjoerd: hum, you are absolutely right
[04:17] <pitti> sjoerd: now that I think about it I wonder why it landed in utils in the first place
[04:17] <jdub> infinity: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=315969
[04:17] <elmo> ogra: oh, yeah, dude, GREAT NEWS
[04:17] <ogra> infinity, could you check the dpms settings in gconf-editor ? 
[04:18] <elmo> ogra: killing workrave doesn't fix  my problem
[04:18] <elmo> gnome-screensaver still DOSes my  box
[04:18] <infinity> ogra : DPMS is enabled, I enabled it myself, and yes, it was DPMS that kicked in, not the screensaver.
[04:18] <ogra> elmo, we'll discuss g-s-s in TB tonight...
[04:18] <elmo> I LOVE LAST MINUTE CODEBASE SWITCHEROOS
[04:18] <sjoerd> pitti: probably because nothing used the session bus at that time
[04:18] <Kamion> elmo: but it's PWETTY
[04:19] <Riddell> sjoerd: glib yes, but dbus-viewer is the killer, bringing in gtk/atk/cairo etc etc
[04:19] <daniels> elmo: do you have anything else open with a global keyboard grab?
[04:19] <sjoerd> Riddell: ah, that explains :)
[04:19] <pitti> Riddell: I'll upload a new dbus that moves dbus-launch into dbus proper
[04:19] <elmo> daniels: not that I can think of, but that seems the most likely culprit
[04:19] <elmo> daniels: as I have to move the mouse to get g-s-s's dialog to appear
[04:19] <elmo> pressing a key doesn't cut it
[04:19] <daniels> sweet
[04:20] <Riddell> pitti: great
[04:20] <doko> elmo: no, not explicitely, but I cannot imagine, why not. openoffice.org-debian-files will be in main, the new openoffice.org1-debian-files in universe
[04:20] <elmo> doko: ok, it's just we were discussing it, and the dicsussion stopped without conclusion
[04:20] <Riddell> sjoerd: and other apps in dbus-1-utils bring in gobject and stuff that kubuntu doesn't need
[04:20] <daniels> i think rigorously following freeze guidelines and our release schedule to not destabilise the tree with random shit at the last minute is what makes ubuntu truly great.
[04:20] <elmo> well explicit conclusion, but hey what do I care
[04:21] <jdub> ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316558 <- hrm?
[04:21] <sjoerd> Riddell: that explains 
[04:22] <ogra> jdub, hmm
[04:23] <ogra> jdub, #15616
[04:23] <jdub> ogra: in ours?
[04:23] <ogra> yup
[04:23] <ogra> tagged upstream
[04:23] <jdub> as in, you're pointing to the same bug, or something else of interest?
[04:24] <jdub> right
[04:24] <jdub> waht's with the "doesn't use pam" bit?
[04:24] <ogra> might be, i have to look into it...
[04:24] <ogra> it uses lbpam as build dep...
[04:24] <ogra> libpam even
[04:25] <ogra> and configure has: --enable-pam            Enable PAM support [default=auto] 
[04:25] <ogra> so i would expect pam to be in...
[04:26] <ogra> its something else... xscreensaver has a special function to capture typeahead input... i dont think its a pam issue
[04:26] <infinity> Great, it did it again.
[04:26] <infinity> This hasn't happened to me at all since the upgrade, now I've had it twice in the last 10 mins.
[04:27] <infinity> How do I make the stupid screensaver know I'm... Like... HERE...?
[04:27] <mjg59> I think gnome-screensaver is the BEST THING EVER
[04:27] <mjg59> I'm glad I spent so long last night integrating it into acpi-support
[04:27] <ogra> infinity, what are the dpms settings in gconf for g-s-s ?
[04:27] <pitti> ogra: do I need to do anything spethial to get g-s-s? I still have xscreensaver running
[04:27] <ogra> pitti, install ubuntu-desktop ? 
[04:28] <pitti> ogra: good point :-) I haven't
[04:28] <mjg59> Bugzilla is currently broken. Please try again later. If the problem persists, please contact bugme-admin@osdl.org. The error you should quote is: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'nat.osdl.org' (111) at globals.pl line 140.
[04:28] <mjg59> NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGH.
[04:28] <ogra> it depends on it... g-s-s conflicts with xss
[04:28] <\sh> hmmm....
[04:28] <infinity> ogra : dpms_enabled (checked), dpms_off (240), dpms_standby (120), dpms_suspend (10)
[04:28] <\sh> no TB meeting tonight?
[04:28] <infinity> ogra : I haven't changed any of those from the defaults, except to chekc the box.
[04:28] <pitti> ogra: so I should install g-s-s to join the pestering^Wtesting team? :-)
[04:28] <ogra> infinity, the 10mins are a leftover of the default settings that got shipped
[04:29] <Keybuk> \\sh: should be, at 2000UTC
[04:29] <ogra> infinity, it was fixed in my second upload
[04:29] <infinity> ogra : How does that make a difference?... If I'm typing, none of these should kick in.
[04:30] <\sh> Keybuk: why is nothing on the w.u.c/Calendar or on the TechnicalBoardAgenda *gnarf* and I thought I could test a lot of small features
[04:30] <Keybuk> nobody's added anything to the Agenda
[04:30] <Keybuk> it does say Tuesday 20 September 2005 at 2000 UTC though
[04:30] <Keybuk> don't know who does /Calendar
[04:32] <\sh> hahahaq
[04:32] <\sh> not this morning
[04:32] <\sh> last edited 2005-09-20 11:02:53 by ColinWatson
[04:35] <pitti> Riddell, sjoerd: new dbus uploaded; I moved dbus-launch from dbus-1-utils to dbus
[04:36] <pitti> Riddell: so please make sure to depend on dbus >= 0.36.2-0ubuntu5
[04:38] <Riddell> thanks pitti 
[04:41] <bob2> NM appears to like to break my network
[04:41] <pitti> bob2: oh, does it anything else?
[04:41] <pitti> (SCNR)
[04:41] <bob2> hahaha
[04:48] <sivang> lol
[04:49] <pitti> Hey shackan, how are you
[04:50] <shackan> apart from the fact that I had to drive my scooter under the rain this morning, fine
[04:50] <jbailey> Hey cool, the software power button on my laptop now apparent means "go do software suspend"
[04:51] <shackan> and I've started to see what the bluetooth stack in freebsd looks like, luckily the api is almost identical :)
[04:53] <mvo> ogra_: will g-s-s come up even if some other app (like totem) is already in fullscreen mode? is that something that (assuming we release with g-s-s) should be fixed?
[04:53] <ogra_> mvo, i guess totem looks if xss is running, so i guess we need to change something
[04:54] <mvo> ogra_: I was wondering if we should teach g-s-s to look for fullscreen-state windows and not kick in when it finds one
[04:55] <ogra_> mvo, yes, thats sounds better than leave it to the app
[05:00] <bob2> fabbione: do you know/care if the ubuntu kernel would need a patch to host vmware?
[05:00] <jdub> bob2: i would
[05:01] <bob2> it oopses on breezy
[05:01] <bob2> (oopses the host, that is)
[05:01] <fabbione> bob2: i have no idea...
[05:03] <bob2> hmmm
[05:03] <bob2> the patch seems to be for the modules, not the kernel
[05:17] <Yagisan> bob2 - what is the problem ? - I use vmware with hoary
[05:17] <daniels> Yagisan: 'on breezy'
[05:18] <sladen> I asked on #ubuntu-doc 4 hours ago, but no reply since.  Does anyone here have admin rights on the wiki to revert a page or does one have to do it by hand?
[05:19] <sladen> (a LaptopTestingTeam Tester has trashed the Template with their own results)
[05:20] <markuman>  i hope i don t disturbed again: but every time a try to build a deb file, the deb files are only a few kbs big. so the source code was not included. i ve paste here the 2 lines from output and the debian/rules http://paste.debian.net/1980
[05:20] <Yagisan> dainels: I know he said breezy - but the kernel should not need a patch to run vmware.
[05:21] <daniels> Yagisan: they have a custom kernel module
[05:22] <sladen> markuman: you're using dpkg-genchanges...!
[05:22] <bob2> markuman: .deb files do not include source code
[05:22] <markuman> sladen, hm? i use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[05:23] <markuman> bob2, but why it is so small? 
[05:23] <bob2> markuman: that debian/rules file by itself is pretty profoundly unuseful
[05:23] <bob2> markuman: if you want help with your package, you need to put the full source somewhere
[05:25] <markuman> bob2, the hole folder where everything is include?
[05:25] <bob2> markuman: so
[05:25] <Kamion> markuman: this isn't really appropriate for #ubuntu-devel; could you find somewhere else to discuss this, please?
[05:26] <Yagisan> daniels: I know - I'm trying to make vmware into a .deb for my private use. It has vmmon and vmnet, but if they were patched with the vmware-any-any-XX patches it should work.
[05:26] <Kamion> perhaps some Debian or Ubuntu help channel
[05:27] <daniels> markuman: #ubuntu-motu might be useful for you
[05:27] <ogra_> :)
[05:27] <markuman> ok thx sry
[05:35] <fabbione> ogra_: can you kindly paste to me the standard /etc/network/interfaces that comes out of a ltsp-server install?
[05:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: just out of random curiosity, have you played with oem-installer at all?
[06:04] <ivoks> wave
[06:23] <mdz> chmj: no way to transfer from bugzilla to malone, but you can add a reference to bugzilla in  malone, which is similar
[06:23] <ogra> morning mdz 
[06:24] <mdz> morning
[06:25] <\sh> chmj: hcid segfaults on my laptop when trying to gnokii --identify and entering my pin on the phone :(
[06:25] <seb128> hi mdz
[06:25] <\sh> evening mdz
[06:26] <chmj> \sh: can you pleaes file that with bugzilla, and provide a backtrace is possible 
[06:26] <chmj> morning mdz 
[06:26] <\sh> chmj: i will...need to find the time to play around again
[06:26] <\sh> charging cell right now
[06:26] <ogra> fabbione, cool howto ! thanks
[06:26] <chmj> \sh: ok, thanks 
[06:27] <mvo> morning mdz 
[06:27] <fabbione> how is the list admin for ubuntu-devel?
[06:27] <fabbione> hey mdz
[06:27] <jdub> fabbione: yo
[06:28] <seb128> mdz: any objection to build gst-plugins0.8 with libcdio? It has been accepted for main by pitti. That will not change existant features or create a new package.
[06:28] <fabbione> jdub: please unsubscribe Frans.Kool@FRSGlobal.com
[06:28] <mdz> seb128: what is libcdio?
[06:28] <jdub> oh, autoresponder guy?
[06:28] <fabbione> jdub: out of office reply to people posting to ubuntu-devel
[06:28] <fabbione> yes
[06:30] <seb128> mdz: a better libcdparanoia
[06:30] <mdz> seb128: we've been testing cdparanoia for a long time
[06:31] <seb128> mdz: ross plan to use it for sj/GNOME 2.14, if we ship the plugin with the current package that will allow him to code using 5.10
[06:31] <mdz> seb128: do you choose at runtime whether to use cdio or cdparanoia?
[06:31] <seb128> mdz: it doesn't replace it, but if it's shipped people can use it
[06:31] <mdz> seb128: can we keep cdpaarnoia as default?
[06:31] <seb128> mdz: yep
[06:31] <mdz> ok, no problem then
[06:31] <seb128> sure
[06:31] <seb128> thanks
[06:33] <spayne> is daniel holback around?
[06:33] <seb128> he's dholbach
[06:33] <dholbach> hi spayne :)
[06:33] <spayne> thanks seb128
[06:33] <bddebian> spayne: No we locked him in a cage ;-)
[06:33] <spayne> dholbach: right, problem with gnome-bluetooth
[06:33] <bob2> mjg59: so, with dpms blanking off, it gets quite far into the resume
[06:33] <doko> mdz: the OOo2 packages based on m129 are ready for upload
[06:34] <bob2> mjg59: paste the little progress-o-meter that shows it reloading pages
[06:34] <bob2> mjg59: but then the screen goes blank like it normally would when about to switch back to x, but all it switches to are brown and white vertical lines
[06:35] <mjg59> bob2: Do you have latest initramfs-tools, and have you regenerated your initramfs?
[06:35] <bob2> mjg59: which look a lot like a corrupted version of the usplash image
[06:35] <mjg59> Yes, that's normal
[06:35] <seb128> ogra: intested by upstream discussions about gnome-screensaver changes, I got a mail from upstream who wants to discuss changes on how to set the list of them, make it coherent with xscreensaver, etc
[06:35] <seb128> ogra: he says to Cc people interested by the discussion
[06:35] <ogra> seb128, yup go ahead
[06:36] <ogra> i'm already discussing a bug with mccann
[06:36] <\sh> spayne: come to #ubuntu-motu cause gnome-bluetooth is universe i think
[06:36] <ogra> seb128, i wonder where he got this:  Does it still use setuid root for the gnome-screensaver-dialog
[06:36] <ogra> process?  
[06:36] <spayne> \sh: thanks but i'm in deep discussion with dholbach
[06:37] <\sh> oh ok :)
[06:37] <ogra> seb128, did this package ever use setuid stuff ?? 
[06:37] <bob2> I do wonder why this xterm is black on white, tho
[06:37] <seb128> ogra: no, it uses pam
[06:38] <\sh> bob2: what? in gnome? i wonder with you
[06:38] <ogra> seb128, yes, thats what i answered in the bug... i was just curious how he got that idea
[06:39] <seb128> ogra: I read some bug saying it doesn't work without putting it setuid on debian/ubuntu
[06:39] <seb128> ogra: that's because the upstream pam install doesn't work out of the box, I've patched it for the package
[06:39] <ogra> ah
[06:40] <bob2> mjg59: btw, should I touch MODULES in default/acpi=support at all, or is it all auto now?
[06:40] <ogra> seb128, gnome #316558
[06:40] <mjg59> bob2: You should never need to touch it
[06:40] <mjg59> If you do, please file a bug
[06:41] <bob2> mjg59: ok, the example could do with an update then :)
[06:41] <bob2> mjg59: just mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd...?
[06:41] <mjg59> dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
[06:42] <Amaranth> seb128: Could you handle bug 15874 for me? Just make the suggested change.
[06:43] <\sh> bob2: something is strange....really with xterm
[06:43] <siretart> fabbione: did you get the email with the credentials for igor? [my evo crashed, but according to logs, mail should have been sent] 
[06:43] <seb128> Amaranth: sure
[06:44] <\sh> bob2: because now it works as expected :)
[06:44] <mdz> doko: ok
[06:50] <bob2> mjg59: heh, I geuss I can get rid of acpi_sleep=23_bios kernel flag now too?
[06:50] <mjg59> bob2: Yes...
[07:09] <bob2> mjg59: hm, a bunch of "tr" errors on hibernate
[07:11] <bob2> mjg59: and NM doesn't see my wired nic until I restart dbus
[07:11] <bob2> mjg59: otherwise working great, tho, thanks again
[07:12] <bob2> ahhhh. NM only sees it when it comes up afterwards.
[07:13] <bob2> I wonder if that;s a bug or not
[07:13] <mjg59> Ok, cool
[07:13] <bob2> and it's like an order of magnitude faster to suspend than haory
[07:14] <mjg59> Yeah
[07:14] <ogra> bob2, dont worry, we'll slow it doen again with gnome-screensaver
[07:14] <mjg59> I'm not sure where all the speedup comes from
[07:14] <mjg59> But it's really quite usable
[07:14] <pitti> *sniff* until the weeked, hibernate worked perfectly, now it's *entirely* broken
[07:14] <pitti> mjg59, what did you do? :-/
[07:14] <mjg59> pitti: Install initramfs-tools. Regenerate your ramdisk. Read the MANY MANY DUPLICATE BUGS.
[07:15] <bob2> ogra: hah, you'll have to make me upgrade, first ;)
[07:15] <pitti> mjg59: ir-t is installed for ages, but I'll try to reconfigure my kernel
[07:15] <mjg59> pitti: Latest initramfs-tools
[07:15] <mjg59> As in, the ones that I uploaded at midnight
[07:15] <pitti> mjg59: 0.28 is not recent enough?
[07:15] <ogra> bob2, its already a dependency of ubuntu-desktop :)
[07:16] <ogra> bob2, and mjg59 just rewrites the acpi scripts for g-s-s
[07:16] <mjg59> pitti: That's the one. Make sure your initramfs uses that.
[07:16] <mjg59> And then make sure that you have a swap partitoin
[07:16] <pitti> mjg59: I have two, could that lead to trouble?
[07:17] <pitti> mjg59: in the first two attempts, it came back with "not enough space"
[07:17] <mjg59> pitti: Plausibly, then
[07:17] <mjg59> Check that you *do* actually have 2 at the moment
[07:18] <pitti> mjg59: hmm, how could you know? the big one is really gone...
[07:18] <pitti> mjg59: not that I touched it in any way, but thanks for the hint
[07:18] <mjg59> pitti: Because initramfs-tools was broken
[07:18] <mjg59> And you tried hibernating
[07:18] <bob2> hah
[07:18] <Riddell> Kamion: could you change the isolinux splash for kubuntu to this http://kubuntu.org/art/kubuntu-usplash-639x320-14.png
[07:18] <pitti> mjg59: ah, ok; thank you very much
[07:19] <bob2> suspend-to-ram is broken because gnome-session is not running
[07:19] <mxpxpod> pitti: could you check something on your ppc?
[07:19] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, will do after dinner
[07:19] <pitti> mxpxpod: yes?
[07:19] <mxpxpod> pitti: can you enable the composite extension in X and then run gdesklets?
[07:20] <Diziet> kamion: lsb's init-functions:
[07:20] <pitti> mxpxpod: ouch - that is so slow on my ppc that it is not actually usable...
[07:20] <mxpxpod> pitti: suck :(
[07:20] <pitti> mxpxpod: but I can test it; what is the exact option?
[07:20] <Diziet> I'm about to upload a fix to 4367, which is a complaint that when an initscript prints errors to stderr between saying it's doing something and the the message saying it's failed, the screen is garbled.
[07:20] <mxpxpod> pitti: whenever I run gdesklets with the composite extension enabled, it crashes X
[07:21] <Diziet> This is a replacement of about 20-30 lines in the middle of log_begin_msg etc.
[07:21] <Diziet> (a) Should I take care about anything in particular and (b) should I send my diff somewhere else too ?  (eg, Debian)
[07:21] <mxpxpod> pitti: do you need the option for X?
[07:22] <pitti> mxpxpod: well, how do I enable it again?
[07:22] <mxpxpod> pitti: Section "Extensions"
[07:22] <mxpxpod> Option "Composite" "On"
[07:22] <mxpxpod> EndSection
[07:22] <pitti> mxpxpod: I thought I have to change something in xorg.conf for that
[07:22] <pitti> mxpxpod: ah, ok
[07:22] <ogra> hmm, is it intended to be used ? 
[07:22] <ogra> i thought thats only a proof of concept ...
[07:23] <mxpxpod> ogra: composite?
[07:23] <ogra> yup
[07:23] <mxpxpod> not sure
[07:23] <mxpxpod> I thought it worked
[07:23] <ogra> sure, it works, but its only a proof of concept... and it clashes with GL
[07:23] <ogra> (afaik)
[07:24] <mxpxpod> ah
[07:24] <Diziet> kamion: I have to go very soon; my parents are visiting this evening ...
[07:25] <pitti> mxpxpod: do I need to install xcompmgr for your test?
[07:25] <mxpxpod> pitti: no
[07:26] <pitti> mxpxpod: ok, I started X with composite, what now?
[07:26] <mxpxpod> pitti: launch a terminal and run gdesklets
[07:26] <pitti> mxpxpod: no such command
[07:26] <mxpxpod> hehe
[07:27] <pitti> mxpxpod: good grief - that pulls in half the world, including xmms
[07:27] <mxpxpod> pitti: are you serious? jeesh
[07:28] <pitti> mxpxpod: 28 additional packages
[07:28] <mxpxpod> pitti: sorry :(
[07:28] <pitti> mxpxpod: well, aptitude knows how to clean up :-)
[07:28] <mxpxpod> :)
[07:28] <mxpxpod> good deal
[07:30] <pitti> mxpxpod: yep, confirmed, it crashes X
[07:30] <mxpxpod> pitti: ok, thanks
[07:30] <mxpxpod> pitti: must be something with composite because grdesktop does it too
[07:30] <pitti> mxpxpod: entirely possible
[07:30] <carstenh> debian + wmaker + xorg + composite + xclock crashes too
[07:31] <mxpxpod> pitti: thanks for trying it
[07:31] <carstenh> probably the same bug
[07:31] <pitti> Hi carstenh, how are you
[07:31] <carstenh> hi pitti, fine :)
[07:31] <mxpxpod> carstenh: any clue what causes it?
[07:31] <zyga> pitti: where can I learn/track the language-packs issue?
[07:31] <zyga> pitti: BTW: hi :-)
[07:31] <carstenh> mxpxpod: no, sorry. i have rebuilt wmaker and tried it on sarge and etch.
[07:32] <mxpxpod> carstenh: ok
[07:32] <carstenh> mxpxpod: it freezes
[07:32] <mxpxpod> strange... I guess I'll just disable composite... no big deal
[07:32] <carstenh> mxpxpod: it freezes the whole pc
[07:32] <mxpxpod> pitti: what X options do you use for your video card?
[07:33] <carstenh> mxpxpod: and icewm works fine. so i'm not sure what causes this bug
[07:33] <mxpxpod> carstenh: that's wierd... it just crashes X for us
[07:33] <carstenh> mxpxpod: i tried it on different architectures and with different graphic adapters
[07:33] <pitti> mxpxpod: hey, I started gdesklets and now my keyboard went crazy
[07:34] <mxpxpod> pitti: with composite?
[07:34] <pitti> mxpxpod: no, just disabled it
[07:34] <pitti> bah
[07:34] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[07:34] <pitti> shift does not work any more and produces weird results
[07:34] <mxpxpod> pitti: yeah, gdesklets is messed up
[07:35] <mxpxpod> pitti: I just wanted to see if you got that crash
[07:35] <pitti> mxpxpod: any idea why it messes up the shift key?
[07:35] <mxpxpod> pitti: heh, no clue
[07:35] <Diziet> Oh, he's at dinner.  Oh well.
[07:36] <mxpxpod> pitti: do you have a ppc laptop? or just a ppc
[07:36] <mjg59> Hmm.
[07:36] <pitti> mxpxpod: laptop - iBook G4
[07:36] <mxpxpod> pitti: ah, cool
[07:36] <mjg59> So, from power button to desktop is 90 seconds when resuming from hibernate
[07:36] <mjg59> That could be better
[07:36] <mjg59> It'll do, though
[07:37] <mxpxpod> pitti: that's what I've got
[07:37] <mxpxpod> pitti: what X settings do you use for your card?
[07:38] <pitti> mxpxpod: the OOTB ones, I didn't touch them - just UseFBDev true
[07:38] <mxpxpod> ah
[07:42] <mxpxpod> pitti: have you had problems with pbbuttonsd not sleeping the laptop after booting?
[07:42] <pitti> mxpxpod: no, that works fine for ages
[07:43] <pitti> mxpxpod: I never shut down my iBook, i always use STR
[07:43] <bob2> \sh: so, erasing my gnome config and starting from scratch means xterm is back to normal
[07:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: with the new pbbuttonsd package, if I boot into linux, it no longer uses 100% cpu, but I can't get it to sleep either using the gnome logout, gdm-signal -s, or pbbcmd config TAG_GOTOSLEEP 1... I have to restart pbbuttonsd in order for it to sleep
[07:44] <zyga> pitti: ping ping :)
[07:44] <pitti> mxpxpod: oh, with 0-7.1? /me installs
[07:44] <pitti> zyga: pong, sorry
[07:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: no no
[07:44] <\sh> bob2: i don't think so..I just implemented today the old hoary patch for some Xterm app defaults..and termcap/terminfo...but strangewise..now it's black/white...not like before black/grey
[07:44] <zyga> pitti: I'm sorry for bothering you but I'd really like to learn about that issue
[07:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: 0.6.6
[07:44] <pitti> zyga: issue meaning, how to build language packs?
[07:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: did you guys just upload 0.7.1?
[07:45] <pitti> mxpxpod: I currently have the latest breezy version installed since that was the one I hacked on last; but 0.7.1 worked fine as well
[07:45] <mxpxpod> pitti: I'm talking about the latest breezy
[07:45] <pitti> mxpxpod: no, I still need to discuss this with mdz
[07:45] <mxpxpod> pitti: try rebooting (I know, that may be hard for you ;) and after everything is up and running, try to sleep your ibook
[07:45] <zyga> pitti: no the issue of true language pack separation, main vs universe and so on
[07:46] <bob2> \sh: well, it's working for me now
[07:46] <\sh> bob2: grey?
[07:46] <wasabi_> TRICKARY
[07:46] <wasabi_> there are mirrors in the back!
[07:46] <mxpxpod> pitti: also, check out #12198
[07:46] <\sh> bob2: or white?
[07:46] <xTina> wasabi: No, it's a glass wall. There's a total of 74 machines in that room.
[07:47] <ogra> wasabi, then you would be able to see xTina there :)
[07:47] <\sh> xTina: wonderful :)
[07:48] <wasabi_> A glass wall?
[07:48] <\sh> this project sounds as the project pylon mentioned last time
[07:48] <xTina> wasabi_: It partitions the room in two halfs.
[07:48] <\sh> wasabi_: big window :)
[07:48] <bddebian> pitti: You back? :-)
[07:48] <bddebian> pitti: Sorry, I got pulled away :-(
[07:49] <daniels> zyga: (he doesn't have a personal life.)
[07:49] <\sh> zyga: time management :)
[07:49] <mjg59> HURRAH.
[07:49] <pitti> bddebian: yes, I had to go for a while
[07:49] <\sh> mjg59: u rock man
[07:49] <mjg59> You people all owe me so much
[07:50] <mjg59> RIGHT.
[07:50] <mjg59> Now.
[07:50] <mjg59> TWO MORE PATCHES.
[07:50] <\sh> mjg59: ubz...
[07:50] <pitti> mjg59: kudos!:-)
[07:50] <mjg59> \sh: Probably not there
[07:50] <ogra> mjg59, you will be sooo drunk
[07:50] <mjg59> Sadly...
[07:50] <ogra> mjg59, oh ? 
[07:50] <ogra> :(
[07:50] <mjg59> Too much work
[07:50] <\sh> mjg59: what? 
[07:50] <pitti> zyga: so you want to start to build universe language packs?
[07:50] <zyga> \sh: time management is the magical skill of expanding 24 hour peroid  ;-)
[07:51] <zyga> pitti: no... I want to make proper language packs
[07:51] <mjg59> \sh: I have to get on with my real life work as well as Ubuntu :)
[07:51] <pitti> zyga: the langpack-o-matic code is in a public arch repo, that's not the problem
[07:51] <\sh> zyga: in the ubuntu world the day has 48 hours
[07:51] <zyga> pitti: and a language pack management system ;-)
[07:51] <pitti> zyga: you just need a computer with good bandwith to run it on :-)
[07:51] <zyga> pitti: arch.ubuntu.com? I'll check it out :)
[07:51] <bddebian> pitti: IF you get a sec, can you please just take a look at:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/libpgtcl2/  And see how far off I am?
[07:51] <bob2> UBZ+1 should be in Cambridge
[07:51] <\sh> mjg59: oh..i see u are in uk...not far from us..ogra...lets book a 19cent flight to london ;)
[07:51] <pitti> zyga: nope, that's something different
[07:51] <bob2> so everyone can repay mjg59 
[07:51] <daniels> bob2: UCH
[07:51] <daniels> or UCP, rather
[07:51] <zyga> pitti: hehe, I want to think of something that might be used by ubuntu and everyone else in the end :)
[07:51] <daniels> Ubuntu at Colin's Place
[07:52] <Diziet> kamion: I uploaded that new lsb (see scrool) and I hope it's all right.  Let me know if not.
[07:52] <pitti> zyga: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/arch/martin.pitt@canonical.com--2005/langpack-o-matic--main--1/
[07:52] <ogra> \sh, 19cent ? i think i'd rather walk :)
[07:52] <\sh> ogra: + taxes and a nice journey with the train from stansted
[07:52] <\sh> (sp?)
[07:53] <pitti> bddebian: no orig.tar.gz?
[07:53] <zyga> pitti: I'll flood you with draft specs and sample code if I ever manage to write anything, thanks :)
[07:54] <pitti> zyga: feel free to ask me things about the code, the existing doc is not very good
[07:54] <daniels> arguably all development to within four standard deviations of the normal happens there anyway, so it'll be no different
[07:55] <bob2> mjg59: I get "/usr/share/acpi-support/power-funcs: line 11: /proc//environ: No such file or directory" when trying to sleep now, since gnome-session isn't running
[07:56] <mjg59> bob2: Don't do that, then
[07:56] <bob2> I made a new gnome session from scratch 15 minutes ago
[07:58] <mxpxpod> pitti: if you could test that behavior I told you about and check out #12198, that'd be awesome
[07:58] <mxpxpod> I gotta get back to work
[08:00] <mjg59> bob2: More seriously - just /dev/null that
[08:00] <pitti> mx|away: I reassigned the bug to me
[08:00] <mx|away> pitti: sweet
[08:01] <bob2> mjg59: aside from that, it just prints "declare -x FOO=bar" for each env var I have, then exists cleanly
[08:01] <daniels> heh
[08:01] <bob2> tho, it occurs to me that it's my fault for not running gnome-screensaver
[08:02] <mjg59> "fault"
[08:02] <bob2> and that I'm being punished for having a screensaver that reliably locks ;)
[08:02] <mjg59> I have a feeling that I'm going to have to carry out my threat to kill people
[08:03] <daniels> start with motu
[08:03] <zyga> pitti: just a side question, how do you feel about separating translations from everything else
[08:03] <ogra> daniels, HEY !
[08:03] <daniels> ogra: just checking to see if you're still awake :)
[08:03] <zyga> (separate management system)
[08:03] <ogra> :)
[08:03] <dholbach> daniels: tststs
[08:03] <pitti> zyga: what do you mean? langpacks contain nothing but translations
[08:04] <daniels> clearly this means you're all spending too much time looking at IRC instead of working
[08:04] <zyga> pitti: yes but they have many flaws
[08:04] <\sh> daniels: what's up with motu? motu rocks..
[08:04] <zyga> pitti: I'm talking about a complementary translation pagage management system
[08:05] <bob2> on the plus side, suspend-to-disk is fast enough that I'll wait for *screensaver to unbreak before whinging about sleep
[08:05] <zyga> s/pagage/package/
[08:05] <daniels> \sh: kidding, dude
[08:05] <pitti> zyga: not sure what you mean
[08:05] <\sh> daniels: wait until I finished my design for the new motu shirt ... u will be jealous ,)
[08:06] <daniels> heh
[08:06] <zyga> pitti: I'm not sure how to tie this into existing tools yet but what I gnerally mean and think about is a system that keeps track of what translations are needed - this is not related to any language-xxx.debs it's a different, better (hopefuly) system
[08:06] <zyga> actually - not better - specialized
[08:07] <pitti> zyga: langpack-o-matic is currently a system to pull translations from buildds, mangle them a bit, and generate language pack source packages; not sure what you want to add
[08:10] <daniels> mdz: duuuuuuude.
[08:10] <\sh> From: root <mdz@ubuntu.com>
[08:10] <\sh> i just wanted to say something...
[08:11] <mdz> yes, I noticed that as well
[08:11] <mdz> the lirc debian/rules is EVIL
[08:11] <mdz> it modifies changelog and config.* during the build
[08:12] <mdz> which was run under fakeroot
[08:12] <\sh> oh well...sounds like libhid
[08:12] <daniels> obviously it should use yada
[08:12] <daniels> --disable-manage-devices
[08:12] <daniels> er
[08:12] <\sh> get the libversion number from debian/changelog and fails when the version is x.z.y-XubuntuY
[08:12] <daniels> --with-port=0x3f8 --with-irq=4
[08:12] <daniels> --with-moduledir="/lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/misc"
[08:13] <daniels> isn't it an IRC client?
[08:13] <bob2> it's drivers for IR devices
[08:13] <\sh> lirc is remote control stuff
[08:14] <Kamion> Diziet: should be fine to just fix it. Debian also has roughly the same set of functions (imported from Ubuntu), but they've been developing and fixing them since after our upstream version freeze so I don't know whether your patch will apply there. It may do.
[08:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: re oem-installer: no, I haven't had the time. :-(
[08:22] <pkern> Should one download the whole breezy ISO to reinstall or is it possible to install it with a warty image? (aka were they many changes in d-i since warty?)
[08:22] <shackan> where's the source for update-notifier? It hoped to find it in gnome cvs but maybe it's ubuntu-specific so I have to look somewhere else ?
[08:23] <pkern> shackan: Try apt-get source when you have deb-src in your /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:23] <Kamion> pkern: loads of changes, but you can certainly install warty and upgrade from that
[08:23] <mdz> pkern: Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) is the current stable release; breezy is the current development release
[08:23] <Kamion> pkern: you can't use a warty ISO to install breezy directly, but upgrades from the warty system it will install are fine
[08:23] <shackan> pkern, yes, I know, I was looking for the upstream repository
[08:23] <bob2> fabbione: have you found 2.6.12's ipv6 stack to be slightly shit?
[08:23] <mdz> pkern: there's no reason to install warty except in the unlikely event that it works while hoary doesn't
[08:23] <pkern> mdz: I know, but I have warty shipit here, because I got that shortly before hoary was released. |:
[08:24] <pkern> mdz: Ok, then I have to download the 700Mb download. Isn't there any netinst image?
[08:24] <Kamion> there's a netboot image, which isn't quite the same
[08:24] <mdz> (-> #ubuntu)
[08:24] <Kamion> (downloads all of d-i over the network)
[08:25] <jdub> mdz: the google search box in firefox is fascism.
[08:25] <mdz> jdub: pardon?
[08:25] <mdz> oh, summerfield
[08:25] <mdz> undercover as "John"
[08:25] <jdub> mdz: just in case you thought you were being reasonable.
[08:27] <pitti> Morning mdz
[08:28] <daniels> gar admin@highlinewebwhateveritis.com
[08:30] <daniels> possibly the most useless reply ever: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-September/049464.html
[08:31] <Treenaks> daniels: yay forum gateway>
[08:31] <daniels> wow, he's got an arseload of stuff.  just when I thought -users couldn't possibly get worse.
[08:32] <daniels> Treenaks: that's not actually coming from the forums, believe it or not.
[08:32] <bob2> sadly that wasn't gatewayed
[08:33] <Treenaks> What was the way to make grub try a certain kernel only once?
[08:34] <bob2> wtf
[08:34] <Treenaks> bob2: it is possible
[08:34] <bob2> there's a whole thread about some guy whinging he didn't get an answer on the forums
[08:34] <Nafallo> lol
[08:37] <dholbach> bob2: good night :)
[08:47] <fabbione> bob2: works fine here.. define shitty
[08:49] <Keybuk> heh, Debian have DDoS'd their security server
[08:49] <lathiat> eh?
[08:49] <pitti> Keybuk: yeah, the new flamewar is annoying
[08:49] <Keybuk> uploaded security updates to X --> saturated outgoing bandwidth
[08:49] <Keybuk> there's a flamewar?
[08:50] <lathiat> ah, heh
[08:51] <Kamion> Riddell: done, thanks
[08:52] <Riddell> Kamion: thank you
[08:52] <ogra> Riddell, so tell me about kscreensaver
[08:52] <Treenaks> skreensaver?
[08:52] <ogra> Riddell, does it hae a own daemon ? 
[08:53] <ogra> have even
[08:53] <Riddell> ogra: it's screensavers for KDE.  kscreensaver-xsavers brings in xscreensavers and is a frontend to them
[08:53] <Riddell> it uses kded I think
[08:53] <pitti> mdz: do you have an idea why mozilla-browser is still in main and does not show up in anastacia?
[08:53] <Kamion> Riddell: let me know if it's working right with tomorrow's images; there was no colour close enough to white in the image for use for text, so I took advantage of the fact that the palette wasn't full and told ppmtolss16 to use white as colour 7 anyway
[08:54] <Kamion> I'm not absolutely certain that'll work; we'll see
[08:54] <ogra> Riddell, so you only need the hacks, not the daeon, right ? 
[08:54] <ogra> deamon
[08:54] <ogra> ARGH
[08:54] <ogra> d a e m o n 
[08:55] <pitti> ogra: tpying scuks :-)
[08:55] <Riddell> ogra: hacks?
[08:55] <ogra> Riddell, the single screensavers in /usr/lib/xscreensaver
[08:56] <ogra> Riddell, they all moved to xscreensaver-data
[08:56] <ogra> depend on that and you should be fine
[08:56] <ogra> (as long as you dont need the daemon, then we'd have a problem)
[08:57] <Riddell> ogra: nice, I'll give that a try
[08:57] <ogra> Riddell, sabdfl wants them even more split, so we'll end up with at least 5 packages with hacks in dapper
[08:58] <Riddell> webcollage doesn't want to work :(
[08:59] <ogra> Riddell, webcollage wil get dropped
[08:59] <ogra> Riddell, #15847
[08:59] <Riddell> aww, I liked the danger it posed
[08:59] <elmo> pitti:    * debian/control: Add appropriate conflict.
[08:59] <elmo> pitti: is that a typo?
[09:00] <pitti> elmo: no, why?
[09:00] <elmo> why conflicts and not replaces?
[09:01] <pitti> elmo: since I moved dbus-launch from dbus-1-utils to dbus, the dbus needs to conflict with older dbus-1-utils
[09:01] <pitti> elmo: that's my usual approach, at least
[09:01] <pitti> elmo: replaces is better?
[09:01] <elmo> yes, much better
[09:01] <elmo> Conflicts << forces dpkg to remove the old version of what you're conflicting against
[09:01] <Kamion> pitti: because librsvg2 build-dep mozilla dep mozilla-browser
[09:02] <pitti> Kamion: OMG, -browser is a build-dep? crazy; I thought just mozilla-dev was
[09:02] <Kamion> sorry, librsvg2 build-dep mozilla-dev dep mozilla-browser
[09:02] <pitti> elmo: apt doesn't install the newer version first? 
[09:02] <Kamion> pitti: what elmo said, conflicts << is evil for that
[09:02] <pitti> Kamion, elmo: alright, I fix that
[09:02] <Kamion> replaces has the proper semantics
[09:03] <daniels> (finally)
[09:03] <pitti> Package: dbus
[09:03] <pitti> Replaces: dbus-1-utils (<< 0.36.2-0ubuntu5)
[09:03] <Kamion> pitti: apt will probably try, but might not always be able to. conflicts imposes an extra constraint on the upgrade ordering that doesn't need to be there
[09:03] <Kamion> and the fewer constraints the better
[09:03] <pitti> alright
[09:04] <jdong> hey guys, what's up?
[09:04] <jdong> lol
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: either it is seeded, or it is a dependency or build-depenency, direct or indirect, of a seeded package
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: germinate rdepends will tell you which
[09:04] <seb128> Kamion, pitti: I can fix librsvg2, that's for the mozilla svg plugin but we can probably change it to firefox
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: yes, Kamion already found it; m-dev depends on mozilla-browser *grumpf*
[09:05] <seb128> dholbach did that with 2.12.0
[09:05] <mdz> elmo: how can I reproduce your workrave/gnome-screensaver bug?
[09:05] <elmo> mdz: I don't know
[09:05] <elmo> is there anyway to tell what has a global key grab going on?
[09:05] <elmo> 'cos I reckon daniels was on the right track
[09:05] <Kamion> pitti: also enigmail, openoffice.org2, openoffice.org2-l10n build-dep on mozilla-dev
[09:06] <Kamion> that looks like the lot
[09:06] <daniels> elmo: not really, no
[09:06] <pitti> Kamion: right, m-dev is fine for main; it's the m-dev depends: m-browser dep that's evil
[09:06] <Kamion> ah
[09:06] <daniels> elmo: i mean, you can enable whatever crazy-arse serverflag it is, and ctrl-alt-kpdivide it
[09:06] <pitti> seb128: see above, don't bother
[09:06] <daniels> elmo: that's the massive-rubber-mallet approach to grabs
[09:07] <seb128> pitti: l
[09:07] <seb128> s/l/k/
[09:07] <Kamion> you could enable AllowClosedownGrabs, ctrl-alt-kpmultiply, and see which processes die
[09:07] <daniels> right
[09:08] <daniels> the other option just kills the grabs
[09:08] <daniels> not slays the processes holding them
[09:08] <elmo> what the heck is kp?  numeric keypad?
[09:08] <daniels> (kills the client, whatever.)
[09:08] <daniels> elmo: yeah
[09:08] <elmo> ok
[09:08] <Kamion> I figure he wants to know which clients are at fault
[09:08] <daniels> Kamion: true dat
[09:08] <Kamion> unless X logs it
[09:08] <daniels> i'm going to laugh really hard if it's core gnome
[09:08] <daniels> and elmo's session dies
[09:08] <elmo> oh, I wonder if it's unclutter
[09:08] <Kamion> (logging which clients would be nice, actually, if it can)
[09:10] <elmo> we have a winner
[09:10] <elmo> it's unclutter
[09:10] <daniels> Kamion: it doesn't log, no
[09:11] <daniels> it probably should
[09:11] <daniels> (the sensible logging layer -- with levels of verbosity -- is up in the xfree86 ddx because that totally makes sense, so nothing down lower in the dix can do verbosity-dependent logging.  WHOOHOOHOO.)
[09:12] <phlaegel> ok, this whole dbus-upgrade-recommends-reboot thing isn't going to last forever, is it? maybe fixed in dapper, when dbus is a bit more grown up?
[09:12] <ogra> phlaegel, its an upstream decision...
[09:13] <Kamion> unclutter> don't use -grab?
[09:13] <phlaegel> ogra: ouch. a permanent one?
[09:13] <ogra> phlaegel, as long as the dbus authors decide its necessary, its hard to work around that
[09:13] <phlaegel> yeah
[09:13] <ogra> phlaegel, aks them :)
[09:14] <lathiat> phlaegel: you can get dbus to reload its configs, if thats what your concerned about
[09:14] <daniels> or just don't use unclutter at al
[09:14] <elmo> Kamion: I'm not
[09:14] <elmo> just 'unclutter'
[09:15] <Kamion> huh, the source seems to say it won't XGrabPointer() unless -grab
[09:15] <daniels> OH MY GOD
[09:15] <phlaegel> lathiat: I just don't want to see linux become reboot-happy. I don't like rebooting my desktop :-)
[09:15] <daniels> THIS IS A HORROR SHOW
[09:15] <daniels>                      * send a pseudo EnterNotify event to the parent window
[09:15] <daniels>                      * to try to convince application that we didnt really leave it
[09:16] <daniels> what could POSSIBLY go wrong
why's that so bad?
[09:17] <ogra> lets just morguify unclutter, who uses that anyway :P
[09:18] <daniels> so the alternative to using the grab method, is to have it create a tiny little window under the cursor
[09:18] <daniels> then it sends an event to the parent window and says 'hey, know how you lost focus to me?  it's all yours again!'
[09:19] <daniels> and does this awful event-mangling
[09:20] <elmo> ogra: the whole GSS situation's made so much more fun by comments like that, FYI
[09:21] <lathiat> gss?
[09:21] <daniels> elmo: seriously though, unclutter is completely pathological
[09:21] <daniels> elmo: -grab may actually be *better*
[09:21] <daniels> lathiat: gnome-screen-saver
[09:21] <Kamion> ogra: (what's wrong with the word "remove", anyway?)
[09:21] <lathiat> ah
[09:21] <ogra> elmo, belive me i get thrown cluebats after me all the day, no matter where i go...
[09:22] <ogra> Kamion, it just doesnt sound that cool with geran accent :)
[09:22] <ogra> *german
[09:23] <elmo> well -noevents does "fix" it
[09:23] <daniels> elmo: -root could also be vastly less shit
[09:24] <daniels> elmo: noevents> right, that's the pathological branch I was talking about
[09:24] <elmo> yeah, sorry I know I'm being dense, but I'm not clear on why it's pathological to send the fake event?
[09:24] <elmo> and why it's only GSS that gets upset
[09:25] <elmo> I mean, seriously, this code hasn't been modified since before some of you were born
[09:25] <elmo> (well, okay, not quite, but close)
[09:25] <daniels> eh, at the time, my workstation was running NT 4 Server with MSSQL and IIS
[09:25] <bddebian> w00t
[09:25] <ogra> elmo, xss lock screen was 15 years untouched when i started working on it...
[09:25] <daniels> so GSS could be more robust in handling this particular behaviour
[09:25] <daniels> but it's ... it's not something anyone should ever attempt to do
[09:26] <daniels> you know how you see people driving roofing nails through their testicles?
[09:26] <daniels> and they're all like 'don't try this at home, kids'
[09:26] <Kamion> not personally, no
[09:26] <daniels> this is that
[09:26] <bddebian> hahaha
[09:26] <daniels> Kamion: you need more bmevideo.com in your life
[09:26] <daniels> (MASSIVELY NSFW.)
[09:26] <daniels> if I could figlet NSFW, I would.  i don't think I can quite stress the point enough.
[09:26] <daniels> also, not safe for just-had-lunch
[09:27] <lathiat> "not safe at all"? ;)
[09:29] <Keybuk> what's worrying is that daniels probably has an account at that site
[09:30] <lathiat> daniels is a continual source of amusement
[09:30] <Keybuk> I'd go for "worry"
[09:30] <lathiat> Well either way amusement still stands
[09:30] <daniels> what's worrying is that you all went and looked
[09:30] <ogra> Keybuk, depends if as user or as committer...
[09:30] <ivoks> argh...
[09:30] <lathiat> daniels: no whats more worrying is that i already knew what it was
[09:31] <ivoks> gnome-screensaver is really broken
[09:31] <Keybuk> daniels: *shrug* nothing on there shocks me
[09:31] <Keybuk> I've seen worse from my friends <g>
[09:31] <lathiat> *by* your friends or *from* your friends
[09:32] <lathiat> the internet is a wonderous place
[09:32] <Keybuk> both
[09:34] <tseng> Robot101: ref me baby one more time
[09:34] <tseng> Robot101: PASS THE PIPE
[09:37] <Robot101> tseng: >:)
[09:41] <bddebian> Pipe?  Who's got the pipe?
[09:44] <sivang> Robot101: any new stuff on the design you showed me that other day? (re: clientlib etc)
[09:48] <tritium> Kamion, is there still a yaboot/os-prober problem in current daily install images?
[09:49] <Kamion> tritium: yes; the kernel issue that's blocking me fixing that is being fixed now
[09:49] <tritium> Kamion, oh, sounds close to resolution?
[09:49] <Kamion> tritium: well, the current images don't hang, at least, if that's what you're asking, but they don't detect OS X
[09:49] <Kamion> yes
[09:49] <Kamion> if you don't have OS X, current images should work fine for you
[09:49] <tritium> Great, thanks for the info.  I'll be glad to test on G5 iMac soon
[09:50] <tritium> I still do have OS X
[09:55] <Robot101> sivang: python prototype has got channel support now
[09:55] <sivang> Robot101: channel?
[09:56] <Robot101> sivang: our abstraction for all different services over IM/VOIP connections
[09:56] <sivang> Robot101: ah cool, you have it online somewhere?
[09:56] <Robot101> textchannel specifically
[09:56] <Robot101> floopily.org/darcs/ipcf-python
[09:59] <mdz> tech board meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[10:06] <paines> hi
[10:07] <jdub> heh. lock dialogue in swap.
[10:08] <\sh> bmonty_laptop: ping ubuntu-meeting fast
[10:08] <kikidonk> hi there !
[10:08] <kikidonk> i'm planning to do an install party for the upcoming breezy version
[10:08] <jdub> rad!
[10:08] <kikidonk> but i was wondering, does the breezy install cd come with a way to repartition windows disks ?
[10:09] <jdub> yes
[10:09] <kikidonk> read: most likely ntfs stuff
[10:09] <paines> cedega stopped working with breezy pre install. i think due to nptl missing in glibc. is that possible ?
[10:09] <kikidonk> rad!
[10:09] <kikidonk> in the install process ? 
[10:09] <jdub> yes
[10:09] <kikidonk> that rock
[10:09] <kikidonk> thanks :)
[10:09] <Robot101> kikidonk: it did in hoary :)
[10:10] <kikidonk> i didn't look to be honest
[10:10] <kikidonk> but it's very nice
[10:10] <Robot101> kikidonk: choose the ntfs partition off the partition manager menu, then you can choose a new size
[10:10] <kikidonk> cause i'm going to convert windows users of course, and they will very likely have a windows-only disk which must be resized to make room for linux
[10:10] <Robot101> it lacks feedback, but you can see parted's output on Alt+F3
[10:11] <kikidonk> cool
[10:11] <Robot101> I dunno if breezy added a progress bar for that
[10:11] <kikidonk> i can do without, a longs as it's happening under the hood
[10:19] <shackan> kikidonk, weren't you a gentoo guy ? :)
[10:22] <kikidonk> yes
[10:22] <kikidonk> but gentoo is broken
[10:22] <torkel> mjg59: ping?
[10:23] <Kamion> Robot101: no
[10:23] <Kamion> (sorry)
[10:23] <mjg59> torkel: Hi
[10:23] <torkel> mjg59: hi
[10:25] <mjg59> torkel: What's up?
[10:25] <torkel> mjg59: re #15582. It works for me with 0.34 if I change user=`finger| grep -m1 ":0" | awk '{print $1}'`
[10:25] <torkel> to user=`finger| grep -m1 ":0 " | awk '{print $1}'`
[10:25] <torkel> in getXuser
[10:25] <torkel> otherwise it matches root
[10:25] <mjg59> Ok
[10:25] <mjg59> Please file a bug
[10:26] <torkel> mjg59: ok. I do a followup
[10:26] <daniels> screw that
[10:26] <ogra> mjg59, did you follow the meeting decision for g-s-s ?
[10:26] <daniels> just search the server's memory space looking for MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE (or XDM-AUTHORIZATION-1 or whatever), get the auth key
[10:27] <mjg59> ogra: No
[10:27] <daniels> then search everyone's home directory looking for that key in .Xauthority
[10:27] <ogra> mjg59, seems we switch back
[10:27] <mjg59> ogra: Right.
[10:27] <ogra> :)
[10:28] <daniels> mjg59: back me up here
[10:28] <torkel> would be nice if acpi-support works with g-s-s anyway...
[10:28] <mjg59> torkel: REWAREWAFDS:OIUREWAFDSAREAREWAFDREW
[10:28] <ogra> that was loud
[10:28] <mjg59> (ahem)
[10:28] <torkel> daniels: it's not about Xauth, it's about dbus
[10:29] <daniels> torkel: if getXuser is wrong, then it's about xauth
[10:29] <daniels> my solution is simultaneously more foolproof and more elegant
[10:30] <torkel> mjg59: huh? 
[10:30] <daniels> alternately, we could write a small script to gdb into the server, break on the first line of WaitForSomething or something equally well-known, and use that to drill down into the auth structures.
[10:30] <daniels> saves brute-forcing the memory space with strstr()
[10:31] <Kamion> mjg59,ogra: we switch back providing sabdfl accepts the TB's consensus
[10:31] <Kamion> which is not the same as "seems we switch back"
[10:31] <ogra> yes
[10:31] <torkel> daniels: no. becasue the only way to speek to g-s-s is through dbus, so you have to find DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, which getXuser does in 0.34
[10:31] <mjg59> torkel: Currently I wish every screensaver to die
[10:31] <mjg59> I would quite happily have acpi-support conflict with every one of them
[10:31] <ogra> Kamion, thus the careful "seems" in front
[10:31] <daniels> torkel: okay, so you didn't mean what you said about needing to change the line so it didn't match root
[10:31] <mjg59> When there's a decision, I'll fix xscreensaver support
[10:32] <mjg59> daniels: No, it does mean that
[10:32] <spayne> i got realplayer from marillat
[10:32] <daniels> spayne: bad idea
[10:32] <spayne> wrong channel :-)
[10:32] <mjg59> We need to find out which user owns the X session so we can find his gnome-session and then find the DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS variable in /proc
[10:32] <spayne> what could you suggest daniels
[10:32] <torkel> mjg59: I can understand that. They are a mess...
[10:32] <daniels> mjg59: right
[10:32] <daniels> spayne: *shrug*
[10:33] <daniels> mjg59: hence my suggestion of gdb'ing the X server with a small script that prints out the currently active auth keys
[10:33] <daniels> mjg59: and looks through everyone's Xauthorities looking for that key
[10:33] <spayne> it is out of hoary extras
[10:33] <spayne> daniels: it is out of hoary extras
[10:34] <lathiat> spayne: that has nothing to do with us
[10:34] <spayne> i know
[10:34] <spayne> sigh
[10:34] <lathiat> it seems approximately 3000x less hackish
[10:34] <lathiat> any reason we are not doing that?
[10:40] <Riddell> seb128: would it be possible to separate libgstgdkpixbuf.so from the rest of gstreamer0.8-misc, is adds a lot of depends
[10:41] <seb128> Riddell: I don't want to divert from Debian
[10:41] <seb128> Riddell: I'll ping the Debian maintainer
[10:42] <Riddell> seb128: can you CC please if it's e-mail
[10:42] <seb128> nop, that's IRC
[10:43] <seb128> is that the only file of this package to be an issue?
[10:45] <pkern> Any clue what happens when lilo fails to install with LVM as root partition like that? "lookup_dev: number=FD00" "device-mapper ioctl cmd 12 failed: No such device or address" "Fatal: device-mapper: dm_task_run(DM_DEVICE_TABLE) failed"
[10:46] <mdz> Kamion: I've updated the seeds; please push an update to ~cjwatson and roll new metapackages
[10:47] <Riddell> seb128: seems to be just that file yes
[10:47] <pkern> Mailinglist suggests a problem in udev |:
[10:47] <mdz> Kamion: else I'll do it after lunch, but sooner is better
[10:49] <jlj> simple C# command line audio player: http://nanocrew.net/2005/09/20/snd123/
[10:50] <shackan> wow, john lech johansen :)
[10:51] <jlj> :-)
[10:52] <shackan> uhm wait, 12 megs of source code for a 'simple command line audio player' ?
[10:52] <dholbach> shackan: maybe it has some .oggs to test it with ;)
[10:53] <jlj> the command line interface source code is 1488 bytes, the rest is codecs :-)
[10:53] <jlj> all the supported codecs are included, there are no external deps besides mono and libesd
[10:55] <ogra> jlj, what kind of codecs does it support ? 
[10:55] <jlj> MP2, MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, Speex, FLAC, Apple Lossless, AC3, CDDA, WMA 1 and 2. MOD formats: MOD, XM, IT, S3M, 669, MTM, STM.
[10:56] <mjg59> jlj: What license is this under?
[10:57] <jlj> mjg59: GPL
[10:58] <shackan> seems something which would look pretty good with some frontend
[10:58] <ogra> jlj, how does that work with included proprietary codecs ? 
[10:59] <jlj> proprietary? all the decoders are open source, most of the GPL'ed
[11:00] <jlj> *them
[11:00] <ogra> MP3 is patented and you have to pay for it
[11:00] <ogra> i think AAC is nonfree either
[11:00] <jlj> proprietary != patented
[11:00] <ogra> yes, sorry, wrong term
[11:00] <jlj> Ubunu ships libmad in main
[11:00] <mjr> correct; patented is a form of proprietary
[11:00] <jlj> err, Ubuntu
[11:01] <jdub> jlj: (which is an error that we'll be fixing before breezy goes out... finally...)
[11:01] <ogra> jdub, :)
[11:02] <shackan> jdub, so it'll be in universe ?
[11:02] <jdub> yes
[11:03] <shackan> will it come on the cd ?
[11:03] <ogra> universe ? 
[11:03] <ogra> nope
[11:04] <shackan> people using the live cd won't be able to play their music, that's bad :(
[11:05] <Keybuk> sure they can
[11:05] <Keybuk> they can apt-get install the codec to play it
[11:05] <shackan> yes but it's not the same thing
[11:06] <Keybuk> no different than people using the install cd though
[11:07] <ogra> shackan, there was never a mp3 supporting player on the live CD you always had to install the codec
[11:07] <Keybuk> we can't put the codecs in main because people in suits will take all our money away and put jdub in jail
[11:07] <jdub> with elmo
[11:07] <Keybuk> and he refuses to be elmo's bitch
[11:07] <jdub> *REFUSE*
[11:07] <jdub> watch me
[11:07] <shackan> hahaha
[11:08] <shackan> why did elmo go to jail ? :D
[11:08] <jdub> he hasn't yet
[11:08] <jdub> but you are suggesting he should
[11:08] <shackan> !
[11:08] <jdub> YOU WOULD PUT ELMO IN JAIL FOR A LITTLE MUSIC?
[11:10] <shackan> argh, what have I done!
[11:19] <sivang> Keybuk: LOLOL
[11:23] <dholbach> good night everybody, i'll see you tomorrow
[11:30] <mdz> Keybuk: I reproduced the mice bug
[11:30] <mdz> Keybuk: with uber debugging enabled
[11:30] <Keybuk> oooh, how reproducible?
[11:30] <mdz> oh, not at all
[11:30] <mdz> just happened once
[11:31] <Keybuk> send your syslog :p
[11:31] <mdz> but I had that extra udev logging of yours enabled, if that helps
[11:31] <Keybuk> though I doubt it'll be interesting because I forgot to ask you to move syslog earlier into the boot sequence <g
[11:31] <mdz> Keybuk: sent
[11:32] <\sh> who is iwj@ubuntu.com? 
[11:32] <mdz> Keybuk: how much earlier?
[11:32] <mdz> \sh: Diziet
[11:32] <\sh> AH OK
[11:32] <\sh> grmpf...caps lock
[11:32] <mdz> heh
[11:32] <Keybuk> mdz: from rc2.d/S20 to rcS.d/S20
[11:32] <sivang> does anybody know how I can use my ubuntu.com email addres now being an approved memeber in launchpad having signed the CoC ?
[11:33] <\sh> small keyboards...
[11:33] <\sh> lpname@ubuntu.com..u have to wait until the cron job rund
[11:33] <\sh> -d+s
[11:33] <elmo> sivang: it should work already
[11:33] <mdz> Keybuk: it's at rc2.d/S10 right now
[11:33] <mdz> anyhow, moved 
[11:33] <mdz> I'll do some more rebooting
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: sorry, I was away having my evening ;-)
[11:34] <Keybuk> right, but needs to be rcS.d so it's before /etc/modules is processed
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: and I'm off to bed now
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: night
[11:34] <Kamion> I imagine the seed mirrors have updated by now
[11:34] <\sh> how do i get a working pdf now from a ps output of firefox..
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, I uploaded -meta already 
[11:34] <Kamion> ok
[11:34] <\sh> ps2pdf doesn't work
[11:35] <mdz> \sh: that works for most pages
[11:35] <mdz> though not all
[11:35] <\sh> mdz: but not bugzilla printer formatted pages
[11:35] <mdz> Keybuk: it doesn't look very enlightening
[11:35] <\sh> mdz: #15916
[11:36] <\sh> mdz: and it's confusing, because in evolution e.g. u have the possibilty to print directly to pdf
[11:36] <\sh> next to .ps
[11:36] <ogra> mdz, eek
[11:36] <ogra> mdz, removed xscreensaver-data ?
[11:37] <mirak> honestly, does anyone manage to build packages with apt-build ?
[11:37] <mdz> ogra: xscreensaver depends: xscreensaver-data
[11:37] <mdz> ogra: or if it doesn't, I'd consider that a bug...
[11:37] <mdz> I just put it back the way it was before
[11:38] <ogra> i does phew
[11:38] <ogra> soryy
[11:38] <mirak> just wondering
[11:38] <mirak> does apt-build is adapated to ubuntu or not ?
[11:38] <mirak> I mean does the package management and naming in ubuntu can be a problem for apt-build ?
[11:38] <\sh> ok..going to bed...
[11:38] <\sh> good night gentlemen
[11:38] <bddebian> Later \sh
[11:39] <sivang> elmo: should it be like my irc name registered in launchapd? or what account does it use?
[11:39] <ogra> night \sh
[11:39] <elmo> sivang: what \sh said
[11:39] <Keybuk> mdz: were the devices missing after the boot, or after the suspend/resume ?
[11:41] <mdz> Keybuk: after the boot
[11:41] <mdz> it may even have been the next-to-last boot actually
[11:42] <tseng> mdz: bwar @ 6108
[11:42] <tseng> mdz: i was about to give into you being a seperate bug, too.
[11:42] <Keybuk> yeah there's not much there other than confirmation of the pattern of failure
[11:42] <Keybuk> moving syslog to /etc/rcS.d/S20sysklogd would help for next time
[11:42] <sivang> mdz: email sent, hope it's ok
[11:43] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, just got it again
[11:43] <mdz> Keybuk: was trying to replicate the conditions
[11:43] <mdz> it was a boot-instead-of-resume after hibernating, so the filesystem was unclean etc.
[11:43] <mdz> it just happened to be after a reboot -f into single-user
[11:44] <mdz> which is what I did befor etoo
[11:44] <Keybuk> wow, that was quick ;)
[11:44] <Keybuk> randomly, you don't have a /dev/input/mice, but do have mousedev loaded?
[11:44] <Keybuk> do you have a /dev/psaux ?
[11:45] <mdz> Keybuk: sent new syslog
[11:45] <mdz> and have the system in the broken state
[11:45] <mdz> I am missing psaux as well, yes
[11:45] <mdz> mousedev and psmouse are both loaded
[11:46] <Keybuk> what is in /dev/input ?
[11:46] <mdz> event[0-3] , mouse[01] , ts[01] 
[11:46] <Keybuk> and in /sys/class/input ?
[11:46] <mdz> same, but also with mice
[11:47] <Keybuk> and cat /sys/class/input/mice/dev ?
[11:47] <mdz> 13:63
[11:48] <mdz> OUCH
[11:48] <mdz> I thought it would be clever of me to tar up sysfs for further examination
[11:48] <Keybuk> can you confirm that there's _not_ a /dev/.udevdb/class@input@mice file?
[11:48] <mdz> that causes a nice kernel panic
[11:48] <Keybuk> yeah, uh, don't do that
[11:48] <mdz> no, I cannot confirm that
[11:49] <Keybuk> kernel gets upset if you try and tar up its core state
[11:49] <mdz> I killed it
[11:49] <Keybuk> there's the memory maps of modules and shit in there (/sys/module/*/sections/*)
[11:49] <dieman> hah
[11:49] <dieman> nice
[11:49] <mdz> I'd done that before without ill effects
[11:50] <mdz> not for a while though
[11:50] <Keybuk> it's at that kind of point I like to say "BENC!"
[11:51] <mdz> Keybuk: has anyone checked to see if it's present in the initramfs /dev?
[11:51] <Keybuk> mdz: the /dev is moved over these days, isn't it?
[11:51] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[11:52] <Keybuk> if you gunzip|cpio -t your initrd.img, you shouldn't find mousedev in it
[11:52] <mdz> I meant the "live" initramfs
[11:52] <mdz> where udevstart has been run
[11:52] <Keybuk> nope, didn't realise that you could still access that
[11:53] <mdz> Keybuk: passing 'break' as a kernel parameter should give you a shell at precisely the right place
[11:54] <Keybuk> interesting, worth a try
[11:54] <mdz> ok, it's not there
[11:54] <mdz> oh, mousedev isn't loaded there either
[11:55] <mdz> only hci, storage and core
[11:55] <mdz> nothing in /sys/class/input at all in initramfs
[11:55] <Keybuk> yeah
[11:55] <mdz> so by all indications rcS.d/S04udev sucks
[11:55] <Keybuk> it shouldn't even be possible for those kernel modules to end up in your initramfs image, so if they got loaded there, strange things would be afoot
[11:56] <Keybuk> actually, I don't think it's S:S04udev at all
[11:56] <Keybuk> that's just supposed to copy over the initramfs /dev and fix it up
[11:56] <mdz> should be plenty possible, by adding mousedev to mkinitramfs/modules
[11:56] <Keybuk> it's when the first udevsend event occurs as a result of S:S20modules-init-tools that we have problems
[11:56] <mdz> Keybuk: it doesn't copy it; initramfs does a mount -o move
[11:56] <mdz> and then S04udev is supposed to just run udevstart
[11:56] <Keybuk> right
[11:57] <Keybuk> the second udevstart should just return having done nothing, and acts as a safety measure
[11:58] <mdz> ah, right, so mice should be created by a hotplug/udevsend event
[11:58] <mdz> as with all other random udev races, the obvious solution is to run udevstart in more places :-P
[11:58] <Keybuk> just in case anything turned up in between initramfs and userspace
[11:58] <Keybuk> Sep 20 14:42:53 (none) udev[5460] : udev.c: action, subsystem or devpath missing
[11:58] <Keybuk> SCORE!
[11:59] <mdz> oooh
[11:59] <mdz> is that udevd or kernel's fault?
[12:00] <Keybuk> the kernel's input subsystem doesn't do hotplug properly
[12:00] <Keybuk> it's a known bug