[12:04] <jelkner> which he has taught me since i first met him were the 5 most important words in computing
[12:04] <jelkner> "did you back it up?"
[12:04] <ogra> hey, its ltsp :) you still can access the chroot
[12:04] <ogra> dont worry...
[12:05] <jelkner> so what do we do?
[12:05] <jelkner> i'm still logged in
[12:05] <ogra> in the client ? 
[12:05] <jelkner> yes
[12:05] <jelkner> a different client
[12:05] <ogra> ah, ok...
[12:05] <jelkner> if i log out, i wont' be able to log in again
[12:06] <ogra> so what did you do exactly ? 
[12:06] <jelkner> flint here.  I put the gzip stuff in the directory as per the instrux
[12:06] <ogra> ok
[12:07] <ogra> and installed python-gnome2 in the chroot environment ? 
[12:07] <ogra> oh, the instructions are wrong i see...
[12:07] <ogra> do:
[12:07] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
[12:07] <ogra> sudo apt-get update
[12:08] <ogra> sudo apt-get install python-gnome2
[12:08] <ogra> thats should solve it
[12:09] <jelkner> oh got it...
[12:10] <ogra> instructions fixed for next time, sorry...
[12:12] <jelkner> sudo: unable to lookup edubuntu via gethostbyname()
[12:12] <jelkner>   remember this bug?
[12:14] <ogra> its no bug
[12:14] <ogra> its another error in my instructions, silly me... you are root after the chroot
[12:15] <ogra> so just drop the sudo (sorry, its late here) 
[12:18] <jelkner> and the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list contains only the cd
[12:18] <jelkner> so i needed copy over the other one
[12:18] <jelkner> the new login rocks!
[12:18] <jelkner> Sauron is dead!
[12:18] <jelkner> log live edubuntu!
[12:19] <ogra> great
[12:20] <jelkner> nice touch ollie
[12:20] <ogra> it might be taht the pic is a bit moved, i didnt fix that yet and mdz wants me to work on the old ldm
[12:20] <ogra> so that will have to wait... but its *something* you can use that not worse than the other one :)
[12:21] <ogra> s/that not/taht is not/
[12:21] <ogra> and it took me only a short weekend to write :)
[12:23] <ogra> oh, and there are themes, look at them if you want your own ...
[12:24] <jelkner> where do I find the themes ollie?
[12:24] <ogra> (just set the link in /usr/share/ldm/themes to your default theme
[12:24] <ogra> )
[12:25] <ogra> (in the chroot that is)
[12:25] <jelkner> he had so much fun breaking it the first time, he wants to try again ;-)
[12:25] <jelkner> god help me!  (fllint :^)
[12:25] <ogra> a theme is a color file for the colors, a background image and two button icons
[12:25] <ogra> lol
[12:27] <jelkner> ollie jeff is gone so I am gone too!  Thanks again!!!!!  we meet tomorrow morning!
[12:27] <ogra> yup, bye
[01:15] <Mosheee> RAHALF...
[01:45] <Mosheee> I am the biggest internet-Troll ever!
[01:46] <Mosheee> Read my Sign with Bell Book and Candle!
[01:46] <Mosheee> Rescue me!
[03:28] <nybble> ttyl people
[08:29] <JaneW> morning
[08:39] <shaga> good morning
[08:39] <rejden> <moin
[08:42] <magnon> morning jane :)
[08:42] <magnon> JaneW: I was asking oliver, do you guys know any hardware vendors who have been particularily nice when it comes to edu-efforts so far, tuxlabs etc?
[08:48] <JaneW> hi magnon
[08:48] <JaneW> magnon: well tuxlabs have been pretty separate from edubuntu
[08:49] <JaneW> in that tuxlabs started way before edubuntu was even a twinkle in Mark's eye ;)
[08:49] <JaneW> I would need to ask the tuxlabs guys about h/w vendors
[08:49] <JaneW> afaik they have received donation of old and used equipment from compnaies etc around the world
[08:50] <JaneW> as far as edubuntu goes we have had one or 2 enquiries, but nothing solid yet...
[08:50] <JaneW> there are ppl wanting to invest in CSR programs, and see edubuntu as a way to deliver their donations in a useable format :)
[08:51] <JaneW> magnon: does that answer your question?
[08:54] <magnon> somewhat :)
[09:01] <JaneW> sorry to be a bit vauge
[09:01] <JaneW> tackle hughvoltage when he is around wrt tuxlab specifics...
[09:03] <magnon> well, it shouldn't be too hard to just call someone and find out what they can provide
[09:03] <magnon> I mean, who doesn't want their company logo on thousands of clients all over the country (give or take a few thousand :P)
[09:05] <JaneW> yes well we still need to release and prove ourselves...
[09:06] <JaneW> everybody loves the idea of edubuntu but until they see that it works, and is supportable, it's not on 1000's of clients
[09:06] <magnon> which is why I said give or take a few thousand
[09:06] <JaneW> in SA ppl are also fairly wary of good simaritans who swoop in and donate something and disappear and it quickly becomes a white elephant
[09:07] <magnon> as in "who knows"
[09:07] <JaneW> so support is a big factor
[09:07] <magnon> hey, that's what I live for :P
[09:07] <JaneW> also a big part of the cost (and effort) of implementing labs here is the physical security
[09:08] <JaneW> as well as other constraints like electricity, phone line, internet connection etc
[09:08] <magnon> h
[09:08] <JaneW> these thinsg are a given in the developed world
[09:08] <magnon> yeah*
[09:08] <magnon> you'd be surprised how often it isn't...
[09:08] <JaneW> oic
[09:08] <magnon> you can't take a fast net connection or electricity for granted
[09:08] <magnon> physical security is easier, of course
[09:09] <JaneW> so it's far more complex than just having a piece of hardware and some software
[09:09] <JaneW> then the other big problem, which ppl complain about, is lack of adequate training
[09:09] <magnon> but outside Oslo, electricity is unstable and phone lines downright suck :P
[09:10] <magnon> yup
[09:10] <JaneW> so the cool equipment in the lab, get pushed to the side and 'out of the way', because no one knows what to do with it.
[09:10] <magnon> that's what we're working on too
[09:10] <magnon> I found the best way to create interest
[09:10] <magnon> Applets :)
[09:10] <JaneW> heh
[09:10] <magnon> seriously. Teachers love applets
[09:11] <JaneW> yes the gimmicky things work well, I find most ppl learn PC literacy easilly once they are comforatble with one thing, whether is e-mail, a game, browsing etc. Once the fear is gone they are more open to try things and experiment a bit
[09:11] <magnon> not that it solves the problem of adequate knowledge about computing, but it makes them open
[09:11] <magnon> yeah
[09:12] <JaneW> also they need to find someting that interests them
[09:12] <magnon> there's always an applet ;)
[09:12] <JaneW> at a previous company I worked for users would get their PC and be terrified
[09:13] <JaneW> most were 40 somthing females never touched a PC before
[09:13] <magnon> hm
[09:13] <JaneW> with in a week they have all changed the fonts, colours, screen saver, wall paper etc...
[09:13] <magnon> they'd need to be at least 50something to never have used a pc before
[09:13] <magnon> here
[09:13] <JaneW> looked hideous, but it was THEIRS and they felt they knew it
[09:13] <magnon> hehe
[09:13] <JaneW> was a property company
[09:14] <magnon> wish I could have some people who never used a pc before, but were open minded
[09:14] <JaneW> previous house wives...
[09:14] <JaneW> my step dad was old
[09:14] <JaneW> he died earlier this year at 84
[09:14] <JaneW> and he would try just about anything
[09:14] <magnon> sorry to hear that
[09:15] <JaneW> I helped him to increase his font sizes about 2 weeks before he died, because he was battling to read the screen easily
[09:16] <JaneW> he e-mailed, and practised writing little programs, created spreadsheets and docs etc, it was amazing
[09:16] <magnon> wow
[09:16] <JaneW> he also tuaght me how to fix my car ;)
[09:17] <JaneW> not that I would bother to do much anymore, but at least I know enough now to know when the mechanic is ripping me off ;)
[09:18] <magnon> old people are such an underused resource.
[09:19] <JaneW> well the ubuntu devel guys have an expression 'could my granny do it'
[09:19] <magnon> grannies are way different though
[09:19] <JaneW> true
[09:19] <JaneW> but that's the acid test
[09:19] <JaneW> esp with pcs
[09:19] <magnon> me and my friend went to this pub, pretty brown place
[09:20] <JaneW> if your granny could do it it is technically EASY
[09:20] <magnon> met some guy, old sailor who had been in cosmetics (!)
[09:20] <magnon> true
[09:20] <magnon> had a long chat with him, four hours went by and we didn
[09:20] <magnon> 't notice - however, he told us about his business, we discussed politics, he told sailor stories, and I told him about wikipedia, online gaming and open source
[09:21] <JaneW> cool
[09:21] <JaneW> Sid was like that
[09:21] <JaneW> he was in the war
[09:21] <magnon> most open minded guy I ever met, guess he was sixty-something
[09:21] <JaneW> (lived through both, but fought in #2)
[09:21] <JaneW> all the way to CD, cell phones, programmming his pc and playing games (doom) etc!
[09:21] <magnon> hehe
[09:22] <magnon> we met another guy at the same place though, he asked about my friends t-shirt
[09:22] <magnon> it has the norwegian flag, uncolored, and it says "paint with your own colors", anti racist movement shirt
[09:23] <magnon> he's like "uhm, isn't that supposed to be red white and blue?"
[09:23] <magnon> my mate says "hey, it can be whatever you want!" and he mumbles "bah, youth are so naive..." and wanders off
[09:23] <magnon> that's what I meant with grannies are different
[09:24] <magnon> some grannies just don't WANT to send the email, or play Doom :P
[09:24] <JaneW> yes
[09:24] <JaneW> irritates me a lot
[09:24] <JaneW> and in her mind anything she doesn;t agree with is deemed rubbish
[09:25] <magnon> I get that a lot
[09:25] <JaneW> i.e. most things
[09:25] <magnon> be it politics or computers
[09:26] <magnon> want a price quote on the new Fire servers :)
[09:33] <magnon> hahaha. I love local sales offices.
[09:33] <magnon> "Hey, I wondered if the local pricing for the new Fire servers are ready, and when it is due to relase here?"
[09:33] <magnon> "Sorry, I haven't heard of those"
[09:37] <magnon> and the resellers are full of crap
[09:37] <magnon> "The company values and goals are efficiency, X-factor, customer focus, innovation, team orientation and execution"
[09:37] <magnon> you were doing what, again? :P
[09:53] <JaneW> heh
[11:56] <shaga> oh, I accidentally disconnect myself from freenode network
[11:56] <shaga> gdm/Xorg just said kosh after dist-upgrade and reboot :D
[11:57] <ogra> shaga, sounds like http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12915
[12:00] <shaga> I hate browsing with elinks without framebuffer-resolutions, I'll look into it once this situation cools down a bit here at work
[12:01] <ogra> look if the mousedev modules s loaded 
[12:17] <shaga> it's not, and amixer also gives some serious errors about missing files while shutting down..
[12:26] <ogra> try to run: sudo udevstart, that should give you the devices back, then you can run sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start to have a working X again
[12:28] <shaga> it works, thanks for the help. :)
[12:31] <ogra> :)
[01:26] <JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 35 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:33] <magnon> does anyone know if Sun Ray clients have ever been used against LTSP?
[01:35] <mark__> Hello edubuntu folk ... I'm having a little difficulty setting up edubuntu - is anyone available to chat a little?
[01:37] <magnon> ask away
[01:37] <mark__> hey - thanks :)
[01:38] <shaga> I'm not a geek with ubuntu at all but I'm watching ;)
[01:38] <mark__> Here's my setup - A server with 2 nics (1 internal 1 pci) - I have ltsp running with kubuntu - but it's been misbehaving
[01:38] <mark__> so I decided to try edubuntu -
[01:39] <mark__> install went ok - but I was a little confused that it asked for a static ip for the nic
[01:39] <mark__> that's my first question - can I force dhcp for that nic - since I have 2 
[01:39] <mark__> 1 nic for internet - 1 nic for ltsp
[01:39] <ogra> mark__, ltsp needs a static ip
[01:39] <ogra> since you run a dhcp server on it
[01:40] <mark__> yeah - my 2nd nic takes care of that - but the install is forcing eth0 to be static
[01:40] <ogra> cat you just change the cables ? 
[01:40] <ogra> *cant
[01:40] <mark__> :) -- I prefer not to ... but I suppose that is an option ...
[01:40] <mark__> ok - so we'll switch the cables ... question 2 ... 
[01:41] <ogra> (i.e. does it matter which one you use for ltsp ? )
[01:41] <mark__> not really
[01:41] <mark__> Once it's all installed / running - I cannot, for the life of me, get the dhcp server to run
[01:42] <mark__> I copy over my dhcpd.conf and re-assign the address of the interface but it complains of no 'subnet declaration'
[01:42] <ogra> mark__, there is a bug in the ltsp setup that i hopefully have solved by the beginning of next week... if you accept the defaults everything will work fine
[01:42] <ogra> argh, dot do that
[01:42] <mark__> ah ... accept the defaults
[01:42] <ogra> ltsp brings its own dhcp.conf
[01:42] <mark__> oh - don't copy over the file :)
[01:42] <mark__> gotcha .. 
[01:43] <ogra> thats the one that will be generated automatically by determining the static ip in the future
[01:43] <mark__> ogra - is edubuntu cool with setting up 2 nics?
[01:43] <mark__> I prefer to keep the internet traffic primarily on 1 and ltsp on the other - but it seems edubuntu only anticipates 1 nic?
[01:44] <ogra> its not prepared for 2 nics in this release, but its quite easy to set up the second post install
[01:44] <mark__> so - if I have 2 I just have to figure that eth0 will be ltsp/dhcp3-server and eth1 I can configure as my internet 
[01:44] <ogra> yup
[01:45] <mark__> hrm ... I see -- so, let me recap for myself ...
[01:45] <ogra> just do a chicken install (hitting enter all the time)and configure your eth1 post install
[01:45] <JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 15 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:45] <ogra> that should give you a working environment immediately
[01:45] <mark__> hm -- that's pretty funny .. never heard 'chicken-install' before...
[01:46] <JaneW> ;)
[01:46] <ogra> put some seeds on the enter key and put a chicken in front of your kbd ;) 
[01:46] <mark__> ok - I guess the only thing I have to fill in is the ip address for the static nick (and buy a chicken...)
[01:46] <ogra> yup
[01:46] <JaneW> mark__: preferably unfrozen!
[01:46] <mark__> :)
[01:47] <ogra> we consider if we ship chickens in future bxed releases ;)
[01:47] <mark__> the frozen ones can be so non-cooperative ...
[01:47] <ogra> and seeds indeed in a extra box ;)
[01:47] <mark__> send peeps -- then people are like 'oooh, they're so cute' - and then they won't mind when the chicken is pooping all over the house later...
[01:48] <shaga> :D
[01:48] <mark__> Content filtering -- are there any instructions on using squidguard (I think that's what the site lists)
[01:49] <mark__> I currently use Dansguardian with KDE and lock-down everything with the kioskadmin tool - but I like Gnome too much ...
[01:49] <mark__> except - one smart child and they've reset their proxy info ...
[01:50] <ogra> a good content filtering solution didnt make it into this release, just install squidguard... there are some notes i have to copy over from the ubuntu wiki
[01:50] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContentFiltering
[01:50] <mark__> does squidguard do system - wide filtering?
[01:50] <ogra> ^^
[01:50] <mark__> oh - cool -- thanks
[01:50] <ogra> all http traffic... if you set it up as transparent proxy
[01:51] <ogra> we'll have a gui and metapackage in the next release with a easy configuration
[01:51] <mark__> ooo, gui ... gui's make me happy ...
[01:52] <ogra> if you want additional firewalling, i'd suggest firestarter for now its not good, but the best we have currently
[01:52] <mark__> I'm not too worried about firewalling -- I'm double nat'd and I turn the machine off after our after-school program
[01:53] <ogra> ok
[01:53] <mark__> with squid-guard ... does the install come with transparent proxy already set - or do I need to tinker (scanning the wiki now ...)
[01:53] <ogra> we have a ongoing firewalling bounty but that didnt make this release
[01:53] <ogra> its described in the wiki
[01:54] <mark__> shucks ... 
[01:54] <ogra> you'll need to set up a blacklist manually, get it from squidguard.org....
[01:54] <mark__> to transparently proxy - I need those IPTables rules?
[01:54] <ogra> yup
[01:54] <mark__> that's cool ...
[01:54] <mark__> ok - and that's where the gui will come in in the future - to set iptables rules and the like...
[01:54] <shaga> I have disabled router-based nat/firewall and all that, I'm behind active connection. are there much leaks if I use software firewall?
[01:55] <ogra> mark__, yup
[01:55] <shaga> I haven't even thought about security, only good p2p connections :p
[01:55] <shaga> connectivity, easily..
[01:55] <ogra> you have a "real" ip on the server ?
[01:56] <ogra> (an external one assigned by your ISP ?)
[01:56] <shaga> I have real ip on my computer, I don't have any other computers(servers) connected just yet..
[01:56] <mark__> Thanks ogra ...
[01:57] <ogra> edubuntu comes with a good bunch of server software preinstalled, this will be accessible from the internet, i'd strongly suggest to enable NAT on your router again...
[01:58] <JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 3 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:58] <ogra> ... if you want p2p capability your router should offer a method to forward just the ports you need for p2p
[01:58] <mark__> ogra - he could serve out ltsp to the world though ... that would be friendly :)
[01:58] <ogra> lol
[01:58] <ogra> i doubt booting would work (never tried it though)
[01:58] <shaga> okay, will do, thanks.. I've been thinking about it for some days now as I could use even udp.. :) time for a cig, damn I've worked hard for today..
[01:59] <mark__> is this a private meeting or can public schmoes like me 'listen' in?
[02:02] <JaneW> anyone is welcome
[02:03] <mark__> fun ... If I don't need to pack up right away I'll be over ... (I'm in a Panera ... I feel compelled to buy something now since I'm mooching free wifi)
[02:31] <jsgotangco> JaneW: busy with the wiki eh
[02:33] <ogra> jsgotangco, meeting ;)
[02:33] <jsgotangco> gaahhh
[03:26] <Yagisan> ogra: If I install edbuntu amd64 on my server, do I need to do anything special for my i386 clients to set them up ?
[03:27] <ogra> ltsp currently has no multiarch feature.... you'd have to do a i386 install on the server too...
[03:27] <ogra> i'm not sure if mdz planned to add this before release...
[03:27] <Yagisan> really
[03:27] <Yagisan> damm
[03:27] <ogra> it will be there eventually, but needs some tweakage in the install scripts...
[03:28] <ogra> and i'm not sure if we will see it before release
[03:28] <Yagisan> ok
[03:29] <Yagisan> I'll grab the i386 iso to test. Whats quicker torrent or http ?
[03:29] <ogra> i'm not even sure how many people grab the torrent yet, but i guess there are not many so the speed might be the same...
[03:30] <shaga> are there problems with the speed?
[03:30] <shaga> I might start seed-help
[03:30] <Yagisan> I'll grab the torrent then
[03:31] <ogra> shaga, i didnt test the torrent yet ...
[03:31] <shaga> I'll see how it runs
[03:31] <ogra> if you do, reeport errors ere, i'll care for it
[03:33] <Yagisan> ok - the last time I did a ltsp install was back with ltsp 3. Is there anything I should look out for ?
[03:33] <ogra> Yagisan, http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting :)
[03:34] <shaga> I'm only getting 2-3kb/s
[03:34] <Yagisan> I get 809 bytes on torrent :(
[03:34] <shaga> but it seems that 6 are seedonly, and no other downloads
[03:34] <ogra> if you follow that and leave the defaults as is during install (you can change them post install), it should work out of the box
[03:34] <shaga> quite strange
[03:34] <shaga> oh, there are 9 downloading as it seems
[03:34] <jsgotangco> ogra: no more dhcp config?
[03:34] <ogra> thats what i suspected, not enough users for the torrent
[03:34] <Yagisan> I have port forwarding set up, and don't use 6881
[03:34] <Yagisan> :(
[03:34] <shaga> I'll help with the seeding
[03:35] <shaga> I only tested to download to different folder
[03:35] <ogra> jsgotangco, not completely, but it works with the defaults... 
[03:35] <jsgotangco> ogra: please fill up the release notes as it progresses at your free time =)
[03:35] <ogra> jsgotangco, i still need to write the dynamically generation of the dhcp.conf
[03:35] <jsgotangco> there's not much technical details i can put
[03:35] <ogra> i'll do
[03:35] <jsgotangco> since you're the one who's most involved with development
[03:36] <Yagisan> I've a slightly technical question
[03:36] <ogra> lol
[03:36] <ogra> jsgotangco, most involved is funny...
[03:36] <Yagisan> opengl - is it render client side or server side ?
[03:36] <ogra> edubuntu is a one man show wrt development
[03:36] <ogra> client side indeed
[03:36] <sivang> hi all
[03:36] <ogra> but the datsa still needs to go through the net
[03:37] <sivang> I am downloading the preview right now, as per Jane's email for requesting tester
[03:37] <sivang> s
[03:37] <sivang> however, BitTorrent is SO SLOW...
[03:37] <ogra> sivang, rather take the daily
[03:37] <ogra> there were some improvements...
[03:37] <Yagisan> so the geforce 4 in my thin client will do all the opengl work ?
[03:37] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:37] <magnon> bah, just leech iso :)
[03:38] <ogra> Yagisan, yup... the Xserver runs locally on the client, everything else comes form the server
[03:38] <Yagisan> heh - I'm upping the torrent at 32k, and getting 4k down
[03:38] <shaga> I'm seeding it 30kB/s and it's still going up
[03:39] <Yagisan> thanks ogra. It helps to test my deng if it has client side opengl
[03:39] <ogra> :)
[03:39] <Yagisan> time to some test my first ebay pentium 2
[03:39] <sivang> ogra: ok, now downloading the daily :)
[03:39] <Yagisan> s/some/smoke/
[03:39] <sivang> magnon: leeching the iso as you suggested
[03:40] <shaga> I haven't tested much opengl in edubuntu yet with my gf6600gt pci/e
[03:40] <Yagisan> finally 81k
[03:40] <Yagisan> we have etherboot ?
[03:41] <Yagisan> none of my net cards are pxe
[03:42] <magnon> sivang: it can be excused for testing imo ;)
[03:42] <ogra> Yagisan, ouch...
[03:42] <ogra> Yagisan, we have etherboot, but nobody has tested it at all yet
[03:42] <sivang> magnon: k 
[03:42] <Yagisan> reatlek 8139, amd pcnet32 thanks :)
[03:42] <Yagisan> damm can't type today
[03:50] <Yagisan> yes - it passed the smoke test :)
[03:52] <ogra> http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting updated with the latest instructions :)
[03:53] <Yagisan> thanks
[03:53] <Yagisan> my wife will get an interesting thin client - P2 233 64MB + Geforce 4MX 440 64MB
[03:53] <Yagisan> I love spare parts
[03:54] <ogra> sounds good for a thin client
[03:55] <Yagisan> I'm planning to use it for my business
[03:55] <Yagisan> I have one overpowered box
[03:55] <Yagisan> and several "relics"
[03:55] <magnon> hehehe
[03:56] <ogra> perfect
[03:56] <magnon> I'm still chuckling over the poor Sun lady
[03:56] <magnon> "Sun... fire? servers? uhm..."
[03:57] <Yagisan> 64bit kernel should be fine on i386 (for the server) ?
[03:58] <Yagisan> don't want to lose my 64bit chroots for testing
[03:58] <ogra> hmm, unlikely, but try it...
[03:59] <ogra> the libc and other stuff at least needs to be 64bit too... i doubt it will work mixed up
[03:59] <Yagisan> really ?
[03:59] <ogra> yup
[03:59] <Yagisan> I thought it would be fine with i386 support in kernel
[03:59] <Yagisan> thats how I test deng
[03:59] <ogra> else we wouldnt have probs with things ike flash/firefox on amd64
[04:00] <ogra> you could just run the 32bit version...
[04:00] <ogra> but running 32bit ff in a 64bit system is a PITA...
[04:01] <ogra> and requires a lot of manual work
[04:01] <Yagisan> I was just interested in a 64bit kernel
[04:01] <Yagisan> I can change userland to 32bit
[04:01] <ogra> as i said, try it, but i doubt it will work
[04:01] <Yagisan> will give it a go soon
[04:02] <Yagisan> just need to get a keyboard + monitor for the 1s client
[04:03] <magnon> ogra: Flash isn't working in 64bit environments?
[04:03] <ogra> magnon, macromedia doesnt offer t
[04:03] <ogra> it
[04:04] <Yagisan> personally - I don't miss flash. The web has less ads without it
[04:04] <magnon> Doh
[04:05] <ogra> norway does some (lots ? ) of its school tests in flash
[04:05] <magnon> politically, those school tests can go hang themselves
[04:05] <magnon> and all
[04:05] <magnon> shoot any supporters etc.
[04:05] <magnon> anything more contra-educative... sigh
[04:05] <ogra> yes, but its a decision blocker for lnux i think...
[04:05] <ogra> linux even
[04:06] <magnon> Flash should be a decision blocker for Flash
[04:06] <ogra> heh
[04:06] <magnon> there's no a11y, and it's a pain to support
[04:06] <magnon> but again, bureaucrats aren't good at these things anyway
[04:07] <magnon> most teachers who raise concern about flash would probably be happy if I said it made them unable to take those national tests :P
[04:08] <Yagisan> no issues with nvidia or ati drivers on clients ?
[04:09] <magnon> my guess is that those tests will disappear now that we got a new govt
[04:09] <magnon> Yagisan: I would think that they work fine
[04:10] <ogra> hmm, there may besome out of sync prob with the restricted drivers... its a normal problem in our development releases...
[04:10] <Yagisan> ok. I'd just like to check as I haven't seen any notes
[04:11] <Yagisan> why nfs ?
[04:13] <ogra> because its common ? 
[04:14] <ogra> we already have a complete new shiny ltsp that doesnt use X exports... 
[04:14] <ogra> i want to try to switch to a cluster filesstem for dapper... until the nfs is stable and proven to be good
[04:14] <ogra> s/until the/until then/
[04:15] <Yagisan> ok - nfs 2 ? 3 ?
[04:15] <ogra> 3
[04:15] <ogra> the default in the current kernel
[04:15] <Yagisan> (I ask, because I have to start analysing the security implications of these choices)
[04:15] <Yagisan> ok - 2
[04:16] <ogra> oh
[04:16] <Yagisan> my job. I'm a security consultant
[04:16] <Yagisan> and I'm building a new network for myself
[04:16] <ogra> oh, then you 'll love our ltsp :)
[04:16] <Yagisan> I'd like to show it to clients as an alternative to windows
[04:17] <ogra> originally tsp uses X over tcp... thats security hell
[04:17] <Yagisan> I liked ltsp when I last used it - but it was a PITA to keep secure
[04:17] <Yagisan> and updated
[04:18] <ogra> we use ssh tunnels instead and its fully pgradeable
[04:18] <ogra> man my keyboard sucks
[04:18] <Yagisan> excellent
[04:18] <Yagisan> blowfish ?
[04:18] <Yagisan> or aes ?
[04:18] <ogra> nfs is the only thing that really needs improvement...
[04:18] <ogra> both i think... i'd have to look at the code
[04:19] <Yagisan> what about eg samba (yes I know it has a history)
[04:19] <Yagisan> I meant by default - aes or blowfish
[04:19] <ogra> its there, but unconfigured yet... i think about a open directory for sharing files through it
[04:19] <Yagisan> I like blowfish by default with openvpn - it has the highest throughput on old pcs
[04:20] <ogra> 'blowfish-cbc,aes128-cbc,3des-cbc'
[04:20] <Yagisan> thanks
[04:20] <ogra> thats from the login manager
[04:20] <Yagisan> excuse me - mt little girl is climbing in my thin clients
[04:20] <ogra> heh
[04:25] <Yagisan> back - she's only 18 months - but she loves my computers
[04:26] <Yagisan> ok - logins and x are tunneled over shh ?
[04:26] <Yagisan> ssh
[04:28] <ogra> all of ltsp is tunneled
[04:28] <ogra> except nfs
[04:30] <Yagisan> ok. if you use smb it should be possible to send that over ssh as well
[04:30] <Yagisan> otherwise ipsec for local lan
[04:31] <ogra> but thats something for dapper... 
[04:31] <ogra> currently i have to concentrate getting the release ready and fix the remaining bugs...
[04:31] <ogra> there wont be much architectural changes anymore
[04:32] <Yagisan> no worries - I'd like to get my network up and running asap too
[04:32] <Yagisan> but it is possible - right ?
[04:32] <ogra> but feel free to consult here for dappers security issues :)
[04:33] <ogra> i love every helping hint i can get to make it perfect
[04:33] <Yagisan> I'd be interested in doing a security audit of it
[04:33] <ogra> (i havent the expectation to have the first release perfect, its just the base we build on in the future)
[04:33] <Yagisan> I already found one ubuntu bug without really looking
[04:33] <ogra> heh, thats easy in the current state :)
[04:34] <Yagisan> heh - it was an information disclosure
[04:34] <ogra> oh
[04:34] <Yagisan> pitti - fixed it for breezy after I mentioned it at UDU
[04:34] <Yagisan> but nobody fixed hoary as far as I can tell
[04:52] <Yagisan> out of curiosity - if I have a breezy chroot - just installing the ltsp-server package is enough to start testing right ?
[04:53] <ogra_> nope
[04:53] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinkClientHowto
[04:54] <ogra_> oops https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
[04:55] <ogra_> you install ltsp-server-standalone and run sudo ltsp-build-client
[04:57] <Yagisan> ok. I allready have a dhcp server so I should be ok
[04:57] <Yagisan> how are "local apps" handled now ?
[04:58] <ogra> there are none currently...
[04:58] <ogra> only the xserver
[04:59] <Yagisan> lots of fun for me then
[04:59] <ogra> it ssh's into the server and runs a gnome-session there (or rather what Xsession it finds)
[04:59] <Yagisan> dnet anyone :)
[05:26] <MarkG24> ogra - I re-installed edubuntu -- dhcp3-server setup fine (using 1 nic) and now I'm getting ...error: not a valid image messages on the clients ...
[05:28] <ogra> MarkG24, what did you do exactly ? 
[05:28] <MarkG24> The chicken install ...
[05:28] <ogra> hmm, that should work
[05:29] <MarkG24> it says "Loading 192.168.0.253:/ltsp/pxelinux.0 ...error
[05:29] <ogra> sounds a bit like you should run sudo ltsp-update-kernels , try that
[05:29] <MarkG24> I'm booting the clients from rom-o-matic boot disks ... does that make a difference?
[05:30] <ogra> hmm, i havent tested with that yet, but either your kernel image is broken or the tftpd isnt running...
[05:31] <MarkG24> Hrm ... had trouble with tftpd in the past .... is that run through init.d or xinetd?
[05:31] <ogra> inetd
[05:31] <ogra> we dont use xinetd...
[05:31] <MarkG24> erm . yeah - that's what I meant ... inetd :)
[05:31] <ogra> but if you did the default install, i should have been installed fne
[05:31] <ogra> fine
[05:32] <MarkG24> it looks like it's fine ... I wonder if it's the 'pxe' image thing in conjunction with my boot floppies
[05:32] <MarkG24> where are the boot images kept? -- I don't see /tftpboot
[05:33] <rickfitz> not sure, but I thought etherboot needed another image (not pxe)
[05:33] <ogra> they are in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
[05:33] <rickfitz> thinking back to using ltsp4 in the past
[05:33] <MarkG24> rickfitz - I'll bet you're right ...
[05:34] <ogra> probably... as i said, i havent tested etherboot here yet
[05:34] <rickfitz> it was next on my list of things to check...
[05:34] <MarkG24> I see -- let me make a quick change and see if it works ...
[05:35] <MarkG24> um ... where' s the dhcpd.conf file ?
[05:35] <ogra> /etc/ltsp
[05:36] <MarkG24> ok :)
[05:36] <ogra> :)
[05:36] <MarkG24> is it possible to pass 2 filenames?  (in case a pxe client is present along with an etherboot one)?
[05:37] <ogra> hmm, try it? i doubt it...
[05:38] <rickfitz> iirc you need to set up groups by mac address, and specify the boot image for each 
[05:38] <ogra> you can make up groups though...
[05:38] <MarkG24> rickfitz - that's what I've done in the past - I like having them just grab their own address though ...
[05:38] <ogra> but that doesnt give you two different filenames... 
[05:40] <MarkG24> I don't have any pxe clients - so I commented out the pxe line and added the vmlinuz
[05:40] <MarkG24> hrm -- same error with the other image file ... 
[05:42] <ogra> did you run the update-kernels coomand ? 
[05:42] <MarkG24> yeah 
[05:42] <rickfitz> MarkG24: what's the error msg?
[05:43] <MarkG24> one sec ...
[05:43] <MarkG24> Loading 192.168.0.253:/ltsp/vmlinuz-2.6.12-8-386 ...error: not a valid image. Unable to load file
[05:43] <ogra> oh, in any case you need to load the initrd
[05:44] <ogra> that holds all the boot code
[05:44] <MarkG24> heh... ok, that's a bit embarassing ... let me try again ...
[05:48] <MarkG24> Loading 192.168.0.253:/ltsp/initrd.img-2.6.12-8-386 ...error: not a valid image. Unable to load file
[05:49] <ogra> hmm... most likely you'll nee dboth, the vmlinuz and the initrd... but i have no real idea about how to define that for etherboot images
[05:50] <ogra> vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img
[05:50] <ogra> thats the boot commandline for pxe
[05:50] <ogra> you somehow need to get the initrd option passed to the kernel on boot
[05:50] <MarkG24> hmmm ...
[05:53] <MarkG24> ogra - is there a -s switch with tfpt
[05:53] <MarkG24> tftp (that is)
[05:53] <ogra> yup
[05:54] <ogra> its used by default (see inetd.conf)
[05:54] <MarkG24> ok ... 
[05:54] <Yagisan> ogra: how would one go about building new kernels for the think clients - make-kpkg ?
[05:55] <ogra> i wouldnt suggest to do that, but make-kpkg and mkinitramfs will be needed
[05:56] <Yagisan> ogra: yeah - but pax and grsec aren't in ubuntu's kernel
[05:57] <ogra> ah, i forgot you are the security guy :)
[05:58] <ogra> i think it was planned to hae a kernel image with selinux stuff in universe, but the guy who did much of the work behaves like an arse to the rest of the security team, i think it drowned in flames...
[05:58] <Yagisan> ogra: believe me - If I get grsec to patch nice into ubuntus kernel I'll stick it in revu
[05:58] <Yagisan> I met most of the sec team at UDU
[05:58] <Yagisan> nice guys
[05:58] <ogra> Yagisan, you didnt meet trulux
[05:59] <Yagisan> I promissed pitti I would do a comparision between pax and exec sheild for him
[05:59] <Yagisan> but haven't had the time
[05:59] <ogra> who runs around in the channels and randomly calls people fachist assholes
[05:59] <Yagisan> s/asshole/arsehole
[06:00] <ogra> yes :)
[06:00] <markg> Looks like I picked a good time to return ...
[06:00] <ogra> heh
[06:00] <Yagisan> have you seen the ubuntu kernels debian rules !!
[06:01] <ogra> i was several times near to ban him in -motu ...
[06:01] <ogra> nope, but i guess they are huge....
[06:01] <ogra> i stopped compiling my own kernels since warty :)
[06:01] <Yagisan> lets just say - I'm glad I'm not the maintainer
[06:02] <ogra> yes, fabbione did a great job ...
[06:02] <Yagisan> but it doesn't look easy to add new patches without a deep understanding
[06:02] <Yagisan> and it needs more then 11G to build
[06:02] <ogra> there should be a patches subdir
[06:02] <ogra> use dpatch and add your patch to 00list-<version>
[06:02] <Yagisan> (it broke my pbuilder - till I pointed it at a 600G RAID to build)
[06:03] <ogra> phew
[06:03] <Yagisan> fabbione said "only about 500M per kernel"
[06:03] <Yagisan> pbuilder and my tmpfs disagree
[06:04] <Yagisan> linux-restricted-modules is worse
[06:04] <Yagisan> ogra: were you at UDU ?
[06:04] <ogra> yup
[06:05] <Yagisan> I may have met you then
[06:05] <Yagisan> I know I was unique
[06:05] <Yagisan> I was the only person "without" a laptop
[06:07] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img006.jpeg.html
[06:07] <ogra> thats me on the terrace...
[06:07] <ogra> i was one of the frequent smokers :)
[06:07] <ogra> s/was/am/
[06:07] <magnon> ogra: I'll join you out there :p
[06:11] <Yagisan> I think I did me you then
[06:11] <ogra> :)
[06:11] <Yagisan> s/me/meet
[06:11] <Yagisan> I think I found a pic of me
[06:11] <Yagisan> I just get my other half to confirm it
[06:13] <markg> ogra - it looks like maybe you can do an 'if' 'else' kind of thing for PXEClient and Etherboot ... 
[06:13] <Yagisan> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img042.jpeg
[06:13] <ogra> oh, if you got a working setup, tell me...
[06:13] <Yagisan> I think that may be me on the left
[06:14] <ogra> on the sofa ? 
[06:14] <Yagisan> blue jeans - green seat
[06:14] <Yagisan> either that - or someone that looks a lot like me
[06:14] <markg> ogra - almost ... just trying now ...
[06:16] <ogra> from left to right i see daf, tseng, Keybuk, someone i dont know behind Keybuk, dilinger leaning at the wall, jdub, mako with backpack, Kinnison and mpool
[06:16] <ogra> so i thought you might be the guy behind Keybuk on the sofa...
[06:16] <ogra> but your description sounds like you look like tseng then :)
[06:17] <Yagisan> Is it good that I look similar to tseng ??
[06:17] <ogra> depends, ask tseng whom he owes money :)
[06:17] <Yagisan> the way to check is if you have a higher res pic - I have a wedding ring that should appear
[06:18] <Yagisan> tseng british ?
[06:18] <ogra> nope, pennsylvania
[06:18] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder
[06:18] <ogra> there are more gallerys
[06:18] <ogra> (at the bottom)
[06:19] <Yagisan> this is kind of interesting - seeing people that look very similar
[06:22] <markg> who's pennsylvania??
[06:22] <markg> who's pennsylvanian??
[06:22] <ogra> tsen
[06:22] <ogra> g
[06:23] <ogra> our mono maintainer
[06:23] <markg> do you happen to know which part (me --> Hanover, PA)
[06:23] <ogra> nope, but ask him in -devel or -motu, he's around every day there
[06:23] <ogra> heh, i come from Hanover too :) 
[06:24] <markg> too cool ... I'll try to remember to do that ... I suppose you're the original Hanover ...
[06:24] <markg> We have a plaque outside of town that says, "Named after Hanover, Germany" --
[06:24] <ogra> but a little bit more eastern *G*, hannover-> hermany
[06:24] <ogra> cool
[06:24] <markg> interesting
[06:24] <ogra> germany indeed
[06:25] <ogra> my typing sucks today
[06:27] <Yagisan> heh - it would be easier to find me if I didn't wear an Ubuntu T-Shirt
[06:27] <ogra> lol
[06:27] <ogra> try here: http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0338?full=1
[06:28] <markg> ogra - what's that ltsp-update kernel command?
[06:30] <markg> nevermind - found it
[06:30] <ogra> /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
[06:31] <Yagisan> my wife thinks this may be me http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0311
[06:31] <Yagisan> she says I'm a lazy bastard that doesn't shave
[06:32] <ogra> hmm, thats bradb
[06:32] <ogra> (if you meant the guy with the cap)
[06:33] <Yagisan> cool - yet another person I look similar too
[06:33] <Yagisan> this is actually kinda scary
[06:33] <markg> Yagisan - I prefer to look at not shaving as a sign of thoughtfulness
[06:34] <markg> ogra - got it! (mostly)  I had to install the mknbi - then it created a etherboot image
[06:35] <markg> now it boots - get's to BusyBox - but no X ... hmmm ...
[06:35] <ogra> no errors ? 
[06:35] <ogra> it should tell you whats wrong...
[06:35] <markg> it says ...  /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
[06:35] <Yagisan> markg: unfortunately my wife disagrees :(  (and oddly enough so do customers)
[06:35] <ogra> would you mind to write on the wiki what you did to get etherboot running ? 
[06:36] <markg> Yagisan -- let's start a support group - I hate shaving ...
[06:36] <ogra> i like it .... (once every week if it gets itchy)
[06:36] <markg> ogra - I suppose I could do that ... (yes .. I do hate the itch too ...)
[06:37] <markg> ok - here's what I didn't see --  mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
[06:37] <ogra> markg, that'd be awesome ... i'll try to get it automated then in the installer...
[06:37] <Yagisan> I don't actually itch, but I hate shaving
[06:37] <ogra> hmm, something is wrong with the initramfs
[06:37] <Yagisan> I wonder if that "laser hair removal" I see on TV would actually work ...
[06:37] <markg> ogra -- the only thing it depends on is mknbi which I had to enable universe for ...
[06:38] <markg> Yagisan -- I can see it now, "What are all those scars on your face? -- Oh, they're from my Laser Shaver (TM)"
[06:38] <ogra> yup, i know... i tried to get t in main, but it was totally broken back then
[06:38] <markg> I see ... so my initramfs isn't cooperating -- wonder if it's a result of using an etherboot image rather than pxe ...
[06:39] <ogra> it shouldnt... they both should use the same kernel and initramfs
[06:39] <markg> hmmm ... let me double check something ...
[06:39] <ogra> no matter how they boot
[06:40] <ogra> and you obviously have a working kernel ... the remounting of /dev happens if the nfs root was mounted
[06:42] <markg> should there be an address for the roosever:
[06:42] <markg> mine is 0.0.0.0 rootpath:
[06:43] <ogra> hmm, it should point to the nfs server indeed
[06:43] <ogra> but then you would see an nfs error
[06:47] <Yagisan> I'm off to bed now (it's almost 3am here). I'll test out the systems tomorrow
[06:47] <ogra> yup, night... sleep well :)
[09:28] <rickfitz> Just installed daily 20050921. Puzzled by updates. Update notifier shows 36 packages to update. Synaptic says OOo2-1.9.125 is installed, offers upgrade to 1.9.129. But 1.9.129 was automatically downloaded during install, and is definately installed. So apt seems to be out of sync with the installation. (This is straight after a default install). Anyone?
[09:36] <ogra> i guess they are in the archive cache but not installed...
[09:37] <ogra> also note that there may be a higher ubuntuX revision available, there was a lot movement with ooo these days (today too)
[09:37] <rickfitz> Nope. If I run OOo Help-About, it says it's 1.9.129
[09:38] <ogra> yes, but that isnt the package version nummmber
[09:38] <ogra> 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu1
[09:39] <ogra> so you ight have a 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu0 installed for example... 
[09:39] <rickfitz> Oh. Now I'm really confused!
[09:39] <ogra> and ooo currently gets updates nearly daily
[09:40] <rickfitz> I was just surpised to have 36 updates on the current daily build.
[09:40] <ogra> the version is not necessarily the revision ....
[09:40] <ogra> the daily build is done around 2am UTC so its nearly a day old now :)
[09:42] <ogra> if you monitor the breezy-changes mailing list, you can see the updates hot the build server...
[09:42] <ogra> hit even
[09:42] <rickfitz> OK Thanks
[09:49] <rickfitz> ogra: More detailed check - some of OOo is at 125, other bits at 129. Maybe the build came halfway through an update? No problem, I'll do the updates. Thanks again.
[09:50] <ogra> yup :)