[02:50] <bmonty_laptop> hi all
[08:09] <xlightwaverx> hello
[08:10] <xlightwaverx> i am very new to ubuntu, but i would just like to say that it is amazing.
[08:11] <xlightwaverx> i have used debian for years, but this is takes care of all the configuration for me.
[08:11] <xlightwaverx> just like to say gj guys and gals. keep up the good work.
[08:11] <xlightwaverx> cya
[01:58] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu update meeting in 3 mins
[02:02] <JaneW> hi all
[02:03] <ogra> hi all
[02:03] <JaneW> so just the 2 of us ;)
[02:03] <ogra> ah
[02:03] <JaneW> hi magnon
[02:03] <magnon> hey :P
[02:04] <ogra> flint wanted to come iirc
[02:04] <JaneW> we'll give him 2 mins
[02:04] <ogra> at least he said "see you tomorrow" this night
[02:04] <JaneW> I need to leave in 75 mons, so let try stick to an hour if at all possible
[02:04] <ogra> 75 mons ? phew
[02:04] <JaneW> ogra: perhaps he's on a plane.. make up a bed!
[02:05] <ogra> heh
[02:05] <Treenaks> 75 mons? that's like 6.25 yrs
[02:05] <JaneW> sigh
[02:06] <JaneW> ok ogra, you're up... :)
[02:06] <ogra> anyway, i have not much to update today... the screensaver stuff ate most of my time the last week... so i only managed to do minor stuff on edubuntu
[02:06] <JaneW> did mdz manage to talk to sabdfl yet?
[02:06] <ogra> our worst bug is solved, thatns to a patch from linus torvalds... :)
[02:06] <JaneW> is there a resolution on the screensaver issue yet?
[02:07] <ogra> it should be fixed in the next upload of linux-source...
[02:07] <JaneW> yay, does petter et al know?
[02:07] <ogra> nope, we have to wait for sabdfl
[02:07] <JaneW> so what are you doing in the mean time? sitting tight and waiting?
[02:07] <ogra> i dont know if petter et al did know about it
[02:08] <ogra> doing my edubuntu stuff, i have enough things left to fix... 
[02:08] <JaneW> nod
[02:08] <ogra> xss can wait... if we go with xss instead of gss i have to demote a day for the changes, but not now
[02:08] <magnon> JaneW: apparently the screensaver issue solution seems to be "revert"
[02:08] <JaneW> ok so you're off s-s until you get an answer?
[02:09] <ogra> yup
[02:09] <JaneW> magnon: yes the unanimous consentous is revert
[02:09] <JaneW> consensus
[02:09] <JaneW> but sabdfl wanted it in
[02:09] <JaneW> so he has to approve taking it out
[02:09] <ogra> i'll prepare new artwork in a weekend session, but thats something i consider sparetime work
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: yes
[02:09] <ogra> ah, artwork
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: what's still needed?
[02:09] <ogra> we have a shiny CD bootscreen now, edubuntu branded
[02:10] <ogra> and i sent jbailey a edubuntu usplash screen, but dont know if it will/can get included
[02:10] <JaneW> I saw that
[02:10] <JaneW> the black screen with gold?
[02:10] <ogra> yup
[02:10] <JaneW> ok
[02:10] <JaneW> who designed it?
[02:11] <ogra> the small one is the first thing you see booting t CD, the bigger one you see at every boot
[02:11] <ogra> i designed it
[02:11] <JaneW> I don;t love the blackness that much...
[02:11] <JaneW> I like the concept though
[02:11] <ogra> its hard to do something else with 14 colors
[02:11] <Kamion> the blackness is necessary
[02:11] <sladen> JaneW: blackness is what monitors tend to be
[02:11] <Kamion> it looks silly otherwise when centred on a black screen
[02:12] <JaneW> sladen: good point ;)
[02:12] <JaneW> in that case - it's great!
[02:12] <sladen> :)
[02:12] <magnon> ogra: is that 14 colors of choice as a palette, or 14 preset tones?
[02:12] <Treenaks> magnon: palette, you have 16 colors, one of which should be "almost black" and one "almost white"
[02:13] <Treenaks> magnon: the rest is up to the logo designer
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: do you need someone to help with any of gthe artwork?
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: I can ask highvoltage or Javacide to assist
[02:13] <ogra> my todo: moodle fixes, (i had this planned for the time when i was struck by screensaver stuff) should be done before the weekend
[02:13] <ogra> JAnenope
[02:13] <magnon> Treenaks: should be possible to do something a bit fancy then :)
[02:13] <ogra> - 2 ltsp fixes... (time consuming for the installer part) 
[02:14] <JaneW> gcompris?
[02:14] <ogra> probably a gcompris update if mdz llows, else i have to fix a hanfull of issues here (mostly missing pictures)
[02:14] <JaneW> do you think mdz would allow?
[02:14] <JaneW> I am thinking not...
[02:15] <ogra> depends, the bug i have is from an upstream guy, lets see what mdz says, i'm fine with both options... updating would be nicer though
[02:15] <JaneW> have you asked mdz yet?
[02:16] <ogra> nope
[02:16] <ogra> i'll do it today
[02:16] <JaneW> can you try asap?
[02:16] <JaneW> please
[02:16] <JaneW> cool, thanks
[02:16] <JaneW> is anyone giving you proper testing feedback?
[02:16] <JaneW> the feedback page is still empty :/
[02:16] <JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/PreviewReleaseFeedback/
[02:16] <ogra> dont worry we have a working gcompris already... as i said it doesnt matter how i solve the bugs...
[02:17] <ogra> i get regular feedback from jelkner and flint on IRC
[02:17] <JaneW> do we know more or less how many ppl have d/led and install edubuntu (preview)
[02:17] <ogra> i had feedback from highvoltage
[02:17] <ogra> nope
[02:17] <JaneW> jsgotangco and mhz?
[02:17] <ogra> jsgotangco only uses the wrokstatio version... 
[02:18] <ogra> he tested the server install once afaik
[02:18] <JaneW> do you think we could call for testers on u-d? or would that not be allowed?
[02:18] <ogra> all in al we're really lacking here
[02:18] <ogra> sure thats allowed
[02:18] <JaneW> ok, let's do it
[02:18] <Kamion> JaneW: I think that's fine as long as you direct feedback elsewhere
[02:18] <ogra> but note that you need the hardware to test ltsp
[02:18] <JaneW> Kamion: ok thanks, will do
[02:18] <Kamion> let's not clutter u-d with Edubuntu test reports
[02:19] <ogra> we have our own -devel list, answers should go there
[02:19] <JaneW> Kamion: ok we'll ask them to post on our wiki and e-d
[02:20] <JaneW> we also need more edubuntu BOF topics for UBZ
[02:20] <ogra> oh, and on a sidenote: schooltool was updated today to the most recent version
[02:20] <JaneW> please add these to the 2 pages assigned
[02:20] <JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
[02:20] <JaneW> and
[02:20] <ogra> JaneW, i'll put up a list if i have some more time...
[02:21] <ogra> but i still need to know if we'll have a edubuntu summit... i dont want to talk about app selection at all at UBZ 
[02:21] <JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuBelowZero
[02:21] <JaneW> so far we only have a smattering from flint
[02:21] <JaneW> yet we are planning a full track, so we'll need to flesh it out
[02:21] <JaneW> ogra: please do - else we'll take the week to discuss app selection ;)
[02:22] <ogra> exactly... and thats pretty counter productive
[02:22] <JaneW> ogra: yes, I need to wait for sabdfl to get back to finalise that
[02:22] <ogra> yup
[02:22] <ogra> thats why i havent put up anything yet
[02:22] <JaneW> ogra: but lets assume (and hope) for a yes, we'll plan around it if it's a no
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: but we still need to maximise this time together , and with the LTSP guys
[02:23] <ogra> we'll have to support thick and half thick clients as well as centralized user management, these shoudl precisely be specced out by the end of UBZ
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: back tracking now, do you not want me to ask javavcide (Steve Torrefranca) to help you with more of the artwork requirements?
[02:24] <ogra> why ? 
[02:24] <ogra> what should he do ? 
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: no idea, I was just wondering if you had lots you still need to do, and if any design is involved...
[02:24] <ogra> we have a handfull of artwork to choose from its just a matter of which picture i put into the package
[02:25] <JaneW> oic
[02:25] <ogra> all i have to do is either ltsp or packaging related...
[02:26] <JaneW> ok
[02:26] <ogra> the rest is done so far... (despite bugs that might come up due to additional testing) 
[02:26] <JaneW> then re the CDs.. last week sabdfl indicated we could print off a small run
[02:26] <JaneW> I think he said a few 1000
[02:26] <ogra> 12942 would need a lot more testing
[02:27] <JaneW> so we need to arrange some packaging etc for that, and make sure it gets done.
[02:27] <ogra> yup
[02:27] <ogra> i think thats soething you could contact javacide for...
[02:27] <ogra> execpt sabdfl/silbs want to use the agency to make the artwork
[02:28] <JaneW> agency?
[02:28] <ogra> graphics desiger ? 
[02:29] <ogra> i thought it was a company
[02:29] <ogra> the person/company who does all our artwork 
[02:30] <JaneW> not sure
[02:30] <JaneW> I used a cape town guy for our logo
[02:30] <JaneW> mark used him for the HBD stuff
[02:30] <JaneW> he didn't do the ubuntu stuff though
[02:30] <ogra> oh, i thought so
[02:31] <ogra> but i think we have a company caring for the CD stuff
[02:31] <JaneW> ok, I'll have to find out...
[02:31] <ogra> so its a matter of silbs/sabdfl decision for the printing etc
[02:31] <JaneW> yes
[02:32] <ogra> i dont think its immediately urgent to have it ready with the ubuntu release, we are not bound to that with pressed CDs
[02:32] <JaneW> do you think we should give the main edubuntu community members a stack to hand out in their communities and at events they attend?
[02:32] <JaneW> Like mhz - Chile
[02:32] <ogra> yup
[02:32] <ogra> fabbione, asked for 500
[02:32] <JaneW> jsgotangco - Philipines
[02:32] <ogra> for denmark
[02:32] <JaneW> magnon - Norway etc
[02:32] <JaneW> ok
[02:33] <JaneW> I'll ask for 10 000
[02:33] <magnon> \o/
[02:33] <JaneW> but we may get 5000 (or less?)
[02:33] <ogra> that'd be fine
[02:33] <JaneW> not sure what a couple of 1000 will end up being
[02:33] <jsgotangco> am i late???
[02:33] <flint_> is is morning time yet
[02:33] <ogra> JaneW, you forgot flint -> US
[02:33] <JaneW> oh and I suppose we'll have to arrange to send some to flint ;)
[02:33] <jsgotangco> i didnt know there was a meeting
[02:33] <magnon> JaneW: Actually I was in talk with... uhm... who was it
[02:33] <magnon> anyway
[02:33] <JaneW> flint_: over slept?
[02:33] <magnon> about printing localized (or scandinavian perhaps) Ubuntu CDs
[02:34] <flint_> one word...WIFE.
[02:34] <JaneW> lol
[02:34] <magnon> if that's something I could get working at some point, edubuntu would be natural to include :)
[02:34] <JaneW> magnon:  cool
[02:35] <ogra> magnon, i didnt push the final list of languages on the CD (that will be aht will fill the remaining 50MB on the amd64 and x86 CDs)
[02:35] <magnon> oh, cool
[02:35] <ogra> powerpc will have to live with english only and net install for other langs...
[02:36] <ogra> there is only 1MB left :)
[02:36] <JaneW> ogra: that's tight!
[02:36] <ogra> JaneW, thas ppc
[02:36] <JaneW> ogra: fill it with 1kb readme.txt files
[02:36] <JaneW> ;)
[02:36] <ogra> heh
[02:37] <ogra> we wont have many ppc people out there... and remember, edubuntu is built in a way that you can even use ubuntu to install it...
[02:37] <ogra> i.e. install ubuntu and put edubuntu-desktop on top of it... 
[02:38] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:38] <jsgotangco> that's what i use atm
[02:38] <jsgotangco> (i actually prefer it over our ubuntu)
[02:38] <ogra> yup thats what our WS install is
[02:38] <JaneW> jsgotangco: now that you are here, are there any doc updates?
[02:38] <jsgotangco> i've put them up on the wiki
[02:38] <jsgotangco> i'm about to send to ogra the xml file of about ubuntu
[02:38] <JaneW> jsgotangco: great to hear btw!
[02:38] <jsgotangco> so that he'll be able to put in on yelp
[02:38] <ogra> ah, updates :)
[02:39] <JaneW> btw we are looking at getting the About Ubuntu page redesigned
[02:39] <flint_> I would like to personally thank and congradulate Oliver Grawert, who will henceforth be known as Gandalf to me for slaying the Dreaded Sauron - Also known as the Lord of the Rings (lotr) Login...
[02:39] <jsgotangco> sorry about the cookbook, it won't get in
[02:39] <ogra> jsgotangco, can i also get a html version ? 
[02:39] <jsgotangco> ogra sure
[02:39] <ogra> great ... 
[02:39] <jsgotangco> i'll just have to do some scripts later
[02:39] <ogra> for the ff homepage
[02:39] <jsgotangco> ogra: please update the release notes as well
[02:39] <jsgotangco> its all in the wiki
[02:39] <JaneW> sad about the cook book, but what can we do...
[02:39] <ogra> flint_, LOL
[02:39] <jsgotangco> JaneW: i have yet to email the list on contributions to it
[02:40] <JaneW> jsgotangco: ok
[02:40] <ogra> flint_, sadly it didnt make it into the release... so we are doomed to the tgz
[02:40] <flint_> Two plucky mental hobbits delivered the killing blow to the all seeing eye yesterday afternoon at the Mt. Ranier Library.  This journey was not without peril, as one of the Hobbits, Paul (not the ring bearer) managed to cock up the install.  
[02:41] <jsgotangco> JaneW: i got to talk to two universities who are willing to contribute in the future
[02:41] <ogra> in fact it was my wrong list of instructions, thanks again for helping to sort it for further installs flint_ 
[02:41] <flint_> My humble question Gandalf (ollie) is will the patch be included in release any time soon, or could I script the patch?  Better yet, could I write a trilogy and have a movie made of it?
[02:41] <ogra> heh
[02:41] <jsgotangco> (it helped that i am in an IT roadshow at the moment)
[02:42] <shaga> :D
[02:42] <flint_> here is the roadshow, what firm...
[02:42] <JaneW> jsgotangco: cool, in what way?
[02:42] <flint_> where is the roadshow, what firm...
[02:43] <ogra> flint_, it will get included eventually, but i doubt mdz will accept it now ... so we'll have to wait for dapper here... i'll think about a way to script it or even make a deb you can install manually that cares for it 
[02:43] <jsgotangco> JaneW: apps, documentation, testing...
[02:43] <JaneW> jsgotangco: cool :)
[02:43] <JaneW> jsgotangco: we need testers/testing and feedback right now
[02:43] <jsgotangco> they've seen Edubuntu running thanks to Linux World
[02:43] <JaneW> yay - well done
[02:44] <jsgotangco> the choice to put in Blender was very very good
[02:44] <flint_> jsgotangco: absolutely, I just am most happy with the lotr login patch.  Makes a big difference in the look of edubuntu.
[02:44] <jsgotangco> we actually had a situation during LinuxWorld that Edubuntu saved the day - because it had Blender
[02:44] <ogra> yay
[02:45] <jsgotangco> there was a Blender track and the guy didn't bring a laptop
[02:45] <ogra> cool
[02:45] <flint_> mdz was whining about blender, excellent!
[02:45] <JaneW> heh
[02:45] <ogra> flint_, dz was whining about any things :)
[02:45] <jsgotangco> no! it was a good choice!
[02:45] <ogra> mdz even
[02:45] <ogra> many even
[02:46] <jsgotangco> too bad blenders help files are all online
[02:46] <flint_> do not let it get pushed out, ta hell with German and French language support!
[02:46] <flint_> (ok that was meant to be funny :^)
[02:46] <JaneW> flint_: er... remeber where ogra comes from ;)
[02:46] <ogra> heh
[02:46] <flint_> please god not france :^)
[02:46] <JaneW> LOL
[02:47] <ogra> flint_, i'll add languages as very last pacages if i'm sure nothing will change anymore and space is there
[02:47] <JaneW> that's resonable
[02:47] <JaneW> there's nothing else we can do right now
[02:47] <JaneW> ogra: any news on the DVD sabdfl was tlaking of?
[02:47] <JaneW> it is a possibility still
[02:47] <jsgotangco> i doubt that
[02:47] <flint_> ollie, i remain convinced that there could be an innovation in language file compression.  where could we look for such a thing?
[02:48] <ogra> JaneW, i think thats rather something for dapper, but Kamion will know if i just can reuse the CD iso and add up stuff until i reach the 4GB
[02:48] <flint_> as I see it, even 5 or 10 percent better packing could be significant to your life, dear Gandalf.
[02:48] <ogra> if the latter is possibel easily, a DVD is possible too
[02:49] <JaneW> ogra: ok, so should we not worry to much for now...?
[02:49] <ogra> flint_, pitti and carlos in #ubuntu-devel are the language-pack gods
[02:49] <JaneW> ogra: 3 weeks tomorrow to release day...
[02:49] <ogra> yup
[02:49] <flint_> jeez, are we talking space problems on the edubuntu dvd now?
[02:49] <ogra> nope :)
[02:49] <ogra> grin
[02:49] <flint_> gotacha pitti and carlos
[02:50] <JaneW> ogra: how does that make you feel on a scale of totally unconcerbed - to hysterical panic... ? ;)
[02:50] <JaneW> i.e. 'are we there yet?'
[02:50] <ogra> JaneW, if i can do what i described above, a DVD is possible even some days before release (indeed with a marker that it didnt recieve testing)
[02:51] <JaneW> (ogra nah I think leave the DVD, but I'll check with sabdfl on that)
[02:51] <ogra> not completely but nothing that isnt solvable before release
[02:51] <Kamion> we can trivially build DVDs
[02:51] <Kamion> I've been doing so for Ubuntu for ages
[02:51] <JaneW> kamion: ok, good to hear. Thanks
[02:51] <ogra> i dont see any reasoin to be worried... but i also didnt see it before preview when everyone freaked out
[02:51] <Kamion> it's just a question of getting them tested
[02:51] <flint_> regarding the lotr patch, jane as his new manager I ask you if I have your permission to put the lean on him...
[02:51] <Kamion> my experience has been that it's very hard to get people to test DVD images
[02:52] <ogra> Kamion, with just adding stuff to the proven CD iso ? 
[02:52] <Kamion> ogra: separate cdimage run
[02:52] <JaneW> flint_: lean on whom?
[02:52] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but i mean installer etc identical ? 
[02:52] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[02:52] <ogra> great :)
[02:52] <flint_> janew put the lean on mdz
[02:52] <Kamion> ogra: for Ubuntu it contains both install and live images; wouldn't have to do that for Edubuntu necessarily
[02:53] <JaneW> flint_: bwahaha - one can try...
[02:53] <ogra> Kamion, yup, most interesting would be to have all alngs added 
[02:53] <Kamion> ogra: that happens automatically; the DVD contains everything in the project's supported set
[02:53] <flint_> dear jane you have a great evil genius laugh...ever consider motion pictures?
[02:53] <flint_> here is a stoopid question, Gandalf (ollie), could you magically fit all three architectures onto one DVD
[02:53] <JaneW> ogra: what's the issue with the lotr patch? Didn't make it in in time?
[02:53] <Kamion> flint_: not right now
[02:54] <ogra> JaneW, i wrote a login manager thats themeable, the current one looks ugly...
[02:54] <Kamion> flint_: I'm told it's perfectly possible to build such an image, but the problem is doing it sanely, automatically, and maintainably
[02:54] <Kamion> and debian-cd really isn't up to the task
[02:54] <jsgotangco> 6GB *shudder*
[02:54] <JaneW> ogra: right, and it was too late to include or what?
[02:54] <ogra> JaneW, it wrote it over one weekend but mdz didnt accept it as patch and my arch repo didnt work so he didnt want to include it (it was even after feature freeze)
[02:54] <flint_> the theamable login manager (by now famous lotr patch)  is a sensational addition.  It must go in.  Sauron must die
[02:55] <JaneW> ogra? flint_ : tough, I don't think mdz is too amenable to adding more stuff now. Seriously
[02:56] <ogra> JaneW, he thought i write it in my worktime and was quite angry about it... its a topic i wouldnt like to discuss again... but feel free :)
[02:56] <JaneW> flint_: yah, but we have a timeline (in Dr Evil voice)
[02:56] <flint_> jane put it to matt that this makes up for the default desktop colour, and he will love you for it.
[02:56] <ogra> s/write/wrote/
[02:56] <flint_> I will wake the beast and slay him this very morning my queen. (in very likely dead prince voice)
[02:56] <JaneW> flint_: forget it we just a had a huge issue about the screensavers
[02:57] <JaneW> I doubt anything will get through now with out good reason and mdz wanting it
[02:57] <flint_> I know this jane...
[02:57] <ogra> i think its essential for success... and i agree with flint... but it can still go into dapper... what we have now is ugly but works
[02:57] <flint_> let me work on him.  It is most beautiful, and a fine bit of a hack.
[02:57] <JaneW> ogra: same as the s-s argument then...
[02:58] <JaneW> flint_: go ahead
[02:58] <ogra> JaneW, probably a nagging flint_ s a good argument to convince mdz ? 
[02:58] <flint_> ...on the other hand, it makes an interesting enhancement - thanks jane will do.
[02:58] <JaneW> flint_: I am sure you have more influence over mdz than we do...
[02:58] <flint_> no one has any influence over the dark lord...
[02:58] <ogra> especially if you are mdz :)
[02:59] <\sh> flint_: despite harry potter ,-)
[02:59] <flint_> oi!
[02:59] <ogra> hey \sh
[02:59] <JaneW> ok what else?
[02:59] <ogra> joining the edubuntu forces now ?
[03:00] <\sh> ogra: when I read the announcement on heise.de...I think we need all hands on edubuntu  
[03:00] <JaneW> highvoltage is working on a website design, he is hoping to have something to show by beg of next week
[03:00] <ogra> i think thats all, i gues ill have a lot more checkmarks to present on my todo next week... (without xss porbs inbetween)
[03:00] <JaneW> \sh we do, wanna install and test?
[03:01] <\sh> JaneW: when i have the hardware...I would do it...but I don't have the hardware
[03:01] <JaneW> ogra: ok you keep at it, I'll send a message to u-d calling for testers
[03:01] <ogra> you have 
[03:01] <ogra> yup
[03:01] <JaneW> ogra: and I'll follow up on edu summit #2 and CD printing issues etc
[03:01] <ogra> JaneW, ok
[03:01] <JaneW> thanks everyone
[03:01] <flint_> Jane regarding hardware, do we want to rattle IBM's cage?  They owe me a favor right now.
[03:02] <JaneW> and please add to BOF lists
[03:02] <JaneW> sure
[03:02] <\sh> ogra: where do i have the hardware? I mean I have to come to your place again and test it with your server :)
[03:03] <ogra> \sh, you have two laptops... :) 
[03:03] <ogra> one as server one as client ....
[03:03] <flint_> anyone who thinks they deserve an IBM X-series server email me (flint@flint.com) lets see what I can hussle.
[03:03] <jsgotangco> MMEEEEEEE
[03:03] <Kamion> so, do you guys want me to start building an Edubuntu DVD twice-weekly?
[03:03] <\sh> ogra: sure..but one I need to fix universe
[03:03] <jsgotangco> I can test a DVD
[03:03] <ogra> flint_, i'll probably come back to you after release :)
[03:03] <jsgotangco> it'll take time to get it though
[03:04] <Kamion> indeed, that's the usual problem
[03:04] <ogra> Kamion, thatd be uber cool :)
[03:04] <Kamion> they rsync fairly well
[03:04] <\sh> flint_: x-series? what is it in HP models?
[03:04] <ogra> Kamion, i can test it here...
[03:04] <Kamion> you can start with an Edubuntu CD and rsync that to a DVD
[03:04] <ogra> yup
[03:04] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:04] <Kamion> ogra: righto, I'll set that up later today
[03:04] <jsgotangco> i didnt know that
[03:04] <ogra> yippie :=
[03:04] <ogra> :)
[03:05] <jsgotangco> ok i'll rsync when ogra gives a go =)
[03:05] <flint_> IBM X-series are 2 U rack mount multiprocessor server class intel engines....with all the trimmings...
[03:05] <magnon> flint_: push Sun instead? I'd have a new Fire in my living room ;)
[03:05] <\sh> flint_: for ubuntu testing and fixing I could need one..so I can use the second laptop as testserver for edubuntu ;)
[03:06] <flint_> magnon, is sun running intel on the sunfire?
[03:06] <magnon> flint_: amd64
[03:06] <magnon> they look and perform awesome
[03:06] <flint_> ...interesting and worth testing on.  I know where one is in the trunk of someones Toyota, but that is another story...
[03:06] <jsgotangco> flint_:  you have access to those?
[03:07] <ogra> flint_, i'll need some server for testing for dapper... a bunch of clients as well... currently all my testing is done with only one client... but i think thats something canonical should sponsor, not one of our users :)
[03:07] <flint_> I am going to pull some favors.  email me offline.
[03:07] <magnon> flint_: I'll probably be getting some of those - I'll be trying to establish a thin client env test lab, and I thought of using'em
[03:07] <jsgotangco> i'd love one but space would be a problem
[03:08] <flint_> Gandalf, the magic is always about the magician, never about the firm.
[03:08] <magnon> also I'm getting nice clients from a norwegian manufacturer to a very nice price
[03:08] <magnon> flint_: IBM xSeries servers don't look near as nice as sunfire ;)
[03:08] <jsgotangco> ogra: lucky you, i live in a capsule!
[03:09] <flint_> jsgotangco: right you are, they are only 3.5" high (2 RU) but you can land an airplane on them.
[03:09] <magnon> flint_: I'd like to see test reports on that
[03:09] <magnon> :P
[03:09] <flint_> the damn things are (or course) 19" wide, but they are at least 2 feet long.
[03:09] <ogra> yes, but it only takes space currently... i dont use it at all as well as the 3KV UPS 
[03:09] <jsgotangco> 2Us are too much for me if it was only 1U, it would fit
[03:09] <magnon> jsgotangco: sunfire!
[03:10] <flint_> Ollie, you use an ext3 file system, you don't NEED no stinking UPS!
[03:10] <flint_> (lol :^))
[03:10] <ogra> flint_, for all the network devices around... 
[03:10] <jsgotangco> i'd rather haver server class laptops if they existed...
[03:10] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: it's called "blades"
[03:11] <ogra> my power drops occasionally... so its cool to have it for the DSL route etc... its just a bit oversized fot this :)
[03:11] <flint_> ....ok...
[03:11] <\sh> flint_: that's ok...I have place in my living room, next to my desk
[03:11] <\sh> actually...I should collect hardware instead of furniture ;)
[03:11] <flint_> \sh: put ikea legs on it and it could BE your desk.
[03:12] <ogra> magnon, did you already test the suns with ubuntu ? i had some installer issue reports with mptscsi
[03:12] <magnon> ogra: nope, haven't gotten that far yet
[03:12] <\sh> flint_: yeah :) but a fast desk I think...and a loud one..but anyways..for recompiling universe and testing stuff quite nice
[03:12] <ogra> magnon, would be nice to have a tester for that, linescann gave up on it i think :(
[03:13] <ogra> magnon, if there really is a issue with the installer mptscsi module this should be solved before release, sun fire seems to become famous ...
[03:13] <magnon> ogra: I don't think Sun Norway has too many of those just lying around. I called them and the lady on the phone didn't even know the Sun Fire campagin
[03:13] <flint_> I just thought this scam up just now.  Let me see what I can propose to IBM.
[03:13] <ogra> oh
[03:14] <flint_> Actually, telling IBM that you all have Sun helps my argument. :^)
[03:14] <ogra> hehe
[03:15] <magnon> flint_: what are you going to propose anyway?
[03:15] <magnon> if you get me cheap ibm stuff for being affiliated with (ed)ubuntu, screw sun :P
[03:16] <Kamion> mptscsi issue> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10189
[03:16] <flint_> Dear Bill,
[03:16] <flint_> I need you to find someone in IBM to help me with Edubuntu.
[03:16] <flint_> Actually I need to borrow about a dozen X series servers and distribute
[03:16] <flint_> them world wide.
[03:16] <flint_> Please call so we can talk about this one...
[03:16] <flint_> Regards,
[03:16] <flint_> Paul,
[03:16] <ogra> Kamion, oh, thanks ... i'll point linescann there if he comes in
[03:16] <Kamion> well, that's one possiblee issue anyway
[03:17] <ogra> (odd that its called mpt :) ) 
[03:17] <magnon> flint_: Looks nice :P
[03:17] <flint_> just sent that letter to mrbill... a contact within IBM not billy gates.
[03:17] <magnon> flint_: also, add "Please attach 2000 Euro to each shipment so we can test on a plethora of clients, too."
[03:18] <ogra> magnon, bah, just send the clients along... else you have to go and buy them :P
[03:19] <flint_> magnon: remember, rome was not sacked in a day...
[03:19] <magnon> ogra: Oh, sorry. "Please buy one each of <insert different vendors and models>, and proceed to include one of each with each shipped server."
[03:20] <JaneW> ogra: sent note to u-d
[03:20] <ogra> and 30" displays so we can see what the clients do even from the garden :)
[03:20] <magnon> ogra: of course, we do this in our free time
[03:20] <ogra> heh
[03:20] <magnon> JaneW: have fun :P
[03:20] <jsgotangco> JaneW: u-d?
[03:20] <JaneW> magnon: yeah right
[03:20] <magnon> ubuntu-devel
[03:20] <jsgotangco> hope that's not ubuntu-doc
[03:20] <ogra> JaneW, thanks and all :)
[03:20] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[03:20] <JaneW> ogra: ditto and all
[03:21] <ogra> :)
[03:21] <JaneW> (is it indian day?)
[03:21] <JaneW> *duck*
[03:21] <flint_> ok here is the draft to mdz. BTW ollie how big is the lotr patch?
[03:21] <magnon> *cry* my vendor login at the thin client distributor doesn't work atm
[03:21] <flint_> Dear Matt,
[03:21] <flint_> I need a favor.  The lotr patch that Oliver Grawert deleloped last week
[03:21] <flint_> needs to go in the edubuntu distro now.  It makes a considerable
[03:21] <flint_> difference in the look of the edubuntu product.  Is there any way I can
[03:21] <flint_> convince you to place this data on the disk?  The patch is no more than a
[03:21] <flint_> few Kb.
[03:21] <flint_> Regards,
[03:21] <flint_> Paul
[03:21] <ogra> flint_, it was developed long ago...
[03:21] <ogra> not only a week
[03:21] <flint_> an I lying about the patch size.
[03:22] <flint_> ok i will change that to tested, he will like it even more...
[03:22] <ogra> (more tha a month)
[03:22] <jsgotangco> haha
[03:22] <jsgotangco> oh god i am laughing so hard
[03:22] <ogra> heh
[03:22] <flint_> The lotr patch that Oliver Grawert deleloped last week
[03:22] <flint_> and Elkner and I tested yesterday, needs to go in the edubuntu distro now.
[03:23] <ogra> flint_, please drop "last week"
[03:23] <jsgotangco> and flint_ probably doesn't even know this channel is logged
[03:23] <magnon> haha
[03:23] <ogra> lol
[03:23] <flint_> making you all laugh is my job.
[03:23] <ogra> heh
[03:23] <flint_> I absolutely know this channel is logged, it would not be any fun if it wasn't!
[03:24] <ogra> *g*
[03:24] <flint_> what-da-ya think janew?
[03:24] <magnon> jane left, I think
[03:24] <ogra> the question is if mdz has time to even read the logs, i doubt it :)
[03:24] <JaneW> ogra: he does if his name is mentioned *BUST*
[03:24] <flint_> he knows exactly what an evil weasel I really am....
[03:24] <ogra> heh
[03:25] <JaneW> ok now I must go
[03:25] <JaneW> ciao
[03:25] <flint_> ok I am going to send as writ.  It will greet him with the LA sunrise.
[03:25] <flint_> later janew. wish me luck
[03:26] <JaneW> gl
[03:26] <flint_> with both mdz and ibm 
[03:26] <ogra> good luck flint_ 
[03:26] <flint_> one is worse than the other I think.
[03:27] <flint_> ollie what is your email address?
[03:27] <flint_> you are mentioned in my note to matt thus you are on the carbon chain.
[03:28] <ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com
[03:29] <flint_> thanks my man....
[03:31] <flint_> ok, it is gone to mdz.  Gandalf, when you get the carbon, respond to both matt and I with the URL for the location of the patch, and for gods sake we need to fix the script, or mdz will cut our hearts out.
[03:31] <flint_> I will take a stab at this later today, and send you the result.
[03:32] <ogra> thanks a lot :)
[03:32] <flint_> ok goodbye! good meeting.
[03:32] <ogra> yup, thanks for coming :)
[09:04] <seadog-gr> hi all
[09:56] <mitsuhiko> hi all
[09:56] <usambara> hi @all
[10:00] <mitsuhiko> \sh_away: coordination failed again ^^
[10:00] <dand> mitsuhiko: how come?
[10:00] <dand> what did I miss? :)
[10:00] <smurf> well, at least hno73 is here *this* time ;-)
[10:01] <hno73> smurf: hi :)
[10:01] <Nafallo> hno73: godkvll/natt :-)
[10:01] <hno73> Nafallo: hei hei
[10:01] <mitsuhiko> hi all
[10:02] <smurf> unfortunately silbs isn't ... oh well
[10:02] <hno73> or rather doing PhD work
[10:02] <ian_brasil> ola
[10:02] <Nafallo> hno73: yay! that brings you to sweden soon then ;-).
[10:02] <smurf> OK... we'll start at 20:05
[10:02] <mitsuhiko> hi all
[10:03] <mitsuhiko> fine. 3 minutes to fetch some popcorn :)
[10:03] <hno73> Nafallo: looking at Oslo actually
[10:03] <opi> and coffee
[10:03] <ian_brasil> what teams are here?
[10:03] <opi> Poland
[10:03] <NielsKjoeller> Denmark
[10:03] <Nafallo> hno73: hehe ;-)
[10:03] <dand> Romania
[10:03] <Nafallo> Sweden
[10:03] <seadog-gr> Hi, from Greek loco
[10:03] <Nafallo> ozamosi: (wake up :-P)
[10:03] <hno73> Any CC members here to opine on policy issues? mako are you at the keys?
[10:03] <ian_brasil> erm , Brazil :)
[10:04] <dholbach> germany :)
[10:04] <Mithrandir> hno73: you're coming to Oslo soonish?  Beer? :-)
[10:04] <mitsuhiko> hi dholbach
[10:04] <ozamosi> Nafallo: I'm here..
[10:04] <mitsuhiko> austria / germany :)
[10:04] <ozamosi> Sweden
[10:04] <dholbach> hi mitsuhiko 
[10:04] <hno73> Mithrandir: mmmm, beer
[10:05] <hno73> It would probably be a good saving if I brought some along :)
[10:05] <pippovic> hi all
[10:05] <Mithrandir> hno73: heh, true.
[10:05] <mitsuhiko> hi pippovic
[10:05] <Mithrandir> hno73: when will you be here?
[10:05] <Ju> ping titus` 
[10:06] <Ju> Hi all !
[10:06] <hno73> Mithrandir: early spring I would think, need to find a flat etc.
[10:06] <Nafallo> Simira: hi :-)
[10:06] <Simira> hi there
[10:06] <Mithrandir> hno73: ah, sounds good.
[10:06] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: so no beer till spring for you ;-)
[10:06] <pippovic> hi droebbel
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: I just bought all the relevant parts for making my own today.
[10:07] <droebbel> hi
[10:07] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: hehe :-)
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: so there'll certainly be before spring.
[10:07] <titus`> hi all
[10:07] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: just make it open-sourced :-)
[10:08] <opi> dholbach, you're into football? I'm going to spend next summer in Germany (think World Cup;-)
[10:08] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: the recipies you come up with etc... ;-)
[10:08] <dholbach> opi: erm... not really :)
[10:08] <dholbach> opi: but if you drop by in berlin, it'd be nice to have  a beer or two :)
[10:09] <opi> dholbach, I've quit alcohol :P
[10:09] <dholbach> well then some orange juice, whatever :)
[10:09] <dholbach> opi: hope you didn't quit food :)
[10:09] <opi> dholbach, nah, actually I think I replaced beer with food ;)
[10:09] <NielsKjoeller> Dholbach: "Think free as in speach, not as in orange juice???". Guess it still works.
[10:10] <smurf> OK, if everybody has ordered their drinks, let's start
[10:10] <mitsuhiko> .oO(Yann is missing... strange)
[10:10] <smurf> First item: hosting
[10:11] <titus`> mitsuhiko, it's ok, I've his voice ;)
[10:11] <Ju> ;-) titus` is the other one french team leader... mitsuhiko 
[10:11] <opi> smurf, I a bit off base on that one: could I get PHP/MySQL/Shell account for our LoCo?
[10:11] <smurf> hno73: what's the situation with Canonical-supplied hosting?
[10:11] <smurf> opi: send email please
[10:11] <mitsuhiko> Ju: i know
[10:11] <opi> smurf, OK
[10:12] <hno73> smurf: we have plenty of capacity, so team leads can just email me with requests
[10:12] <smurf> Any restrictions WRT bandwidth, disk space, ...?
[10:12] <mitsuhiko> hno73: the problem. 4 month ago there was no such service :(
[10:12] <hno73> I've been away for a week+  are there any such requests that I haven't replied to?
[10:12] <opi> smurf, can we have our own MX? I would like to take e-mail aliases to my place
[10:13] <smurf> opi: see last answer ...
[10:13] <hno73> mitsuhiko: yes, and now we have 'too much'
[10:13] <mitsuhiko> hno73: now we also have too much
[10:13] <hno73> opi: which team are you from?
[10:13] <mitsuhiko> hno73: 2 dell supplied servers and another two from hp :(
[10:13] <mitsuhiko> hno73: pl
[10:13] <titus`> hno73, what about ubuntu-de-fr servers hosting european loco teams ?
[10:14] <ian_brasil> hno73: what is your mail?
[10:14] <hno73> henrik@ubuntu.com
[10:14] <opi> hno73, Poland
[10:14] <NielsKjoeller> Just a question: Is this the meeting, or are people just chatting?
[10:14] <hno73> mitsuhiko: just email me a request
[10:14] <titus`> NielsKjoeller, it's the neeting
[10:14] <smurf> NielsKjoeller: It's supposed to be a meeting
[10:14] <opi> NielsKjoeller, LoCoMeeting
[10:14] <Mithrandir> NielsKjoeller: I think smurf is trying to get the meeting started, but everybody is a bit disorganised still
[10:15] <mitsuhiko> hno73: as i sait. atm we have everything we need
[10:15] <NielsKjoeller> Mithrandir: Thought so ;-)
[10:15] <hno73> mitsuhiko: sorry, that was for opi
[10:15] <mitsuhiko> hno73: np
[10:15] <hno73> opi: We can provide those things
[10:15] <opi> hno73, thanks
[10:15] <smurf> That is a good place to tell everybody to uiet down a bit ;-)
[10:16] <hno73> any other hosting requests?
[10:16] <smurf> hno73: you haven't yet answered my question ..?
[10:16] <sturmkind> hello
[10:16] <mitsuhiko> hi sturmkind
[10:16] <mitsuhiko> sturmkind: <-- ubuntu-de
[10:16] <Simira> smurf: has a "Tor" from the Norwegian LoCo contacted you about the websites?
[10:17] <titus`> hno73, same request as smurf...
[10:17] <hno73> (21:12:15) hno73: smurf: we have plenty of capacity, so team leads can just email me with requests
[10:17] <smurf> Please try to stay on topic ...
[10:17] <hno73> that quetion?
[10:17] <titus`> hno73, what about ubuntu-de-fr servers hosting european loco teams ? <= this one
[10:17] <hno73> what is the status? we have capacity
[10:17] <smurf> The "any restrictions" part. You know, 1TB disk space and a gigabit uplink ;-)
[10:18] <Simira> hno73: ok, you're in charge of the LoCo webhosting? I'll be in touch at a later point.
[10:18] <hno73> smurf: ah.
[10:18] <smurf> hno73: asked another way, if ubuntuforums.org asks you for housing, could you supply it?
[10:19] <hno73> smurf: as long as we are not serving out ISOs it should be fine
[10:19] <hno73> smurf: I think so yes
[10:19] <mitsuhiko> hno73: past showed up that a 2400+XP Server can't handle big forums for a long time
[10:20] <hno73> these are the machines: http://www.serverpronto.com/detail-power.php
[10:20] <hno73> mitsuhiko: what is the forum running on now?
[10:20] <Nafallo> hno73: that's not the specs on the one we got ;-)
[10:20] <mitsuhiko> hno73: phpbb atm
[10:20] <mitsuhiko> and a XP2400+
[10:20] <hno73> and are they looking to change?
[10:21] <mitsuhiko> hno73: we've collected money and got some servers :-)
[10:21] <hno73> Nafallo: really? what do you have?
[10:21] <Nafallo> hno73: AMD Sempron 2400+ / 107GB HD (df -h)
[10:21] <hno73> mitsuhiko: I know. Do you have capacity to host the forums?
[10:22] <littlepaul> hno73, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrDeHosting
[10:22] <smurf> One part of this agenda item is -- if a new team says "Hi we want some space", do I send them directly to you? My current rule-of-thumb is to set up a standard webspace+Moin on my server, to be freely used until they need more
[10:22] <hno73> Nafallo: so more like this: http://www.serverpronto.com/detail-powerplus.php ?
[10:23] <Nafallo> hno73: a mix I think. 488MB RAM :-)
[10:23] <hno73> smurf: you can send them to me if you like, that's fine
[10:23] <Nafallo> (free -m)
[10:24] <Nafallo> but more like, sure :-)
[10:24] <smurf> We have also spent some effort acquiring free systems and housing for ubuntu-de+fr 
[10:24] <smurf> s/some/a lot/
[10:24] <opi> can this efforts be merged?
[10:24] <mitsuhiko> hno73: here the stats for ubuntu-de (+ru): http://netz.smurf.noris.de/webalizer/
[10:25] <opi> merged as in "one procedure to share resources"
[10:25] <smurf> which will go live in a few weeks, and (I hope ;-) will be high-quality (redundant servers and all that)
[10:25] <hno73> opi: I would be happy with that
[10:26] <hno73> smurf: sounds cool
[10:26] <hno73> one thing we are short of is off-site backup space
[10:26] <hno73> If one of our LoCo HDs crash now we are in bad shape :(
[10:27] <sturmkind> hno73: yes the backup problem :-(
[10:27] <smurf> hno73: No problem, we can supply that
[10:27] <hno73> smurf: cool
[10:27] <hno73> and likewise really
[10:27] <opi> smurf, can you think about doing a Wiki page on "How to get webspace for your LoCo" with both options named and discribed?
[10:28] <smurf> opi: three of them actually
[10:28] <opi> smurf, /me bad, three
[10:28] <smurf> sure, I'll write that
[10:28] <smurf> OK, anything else WRT hosting?
[10:29] <hno73> not from me
[10:29] <opi> I'm good
[10:29] <smurf> cool
[10:29] <titus`> no answer again...
[10:29] <smurf> titus`: ?
[10:29] <titus`> hno73, what about ubuntu-de-fr servers hosting european loco teams ? <= this one
[10:29] <Ju`> titus`, sorry what was your question, my connection wwentinto trouble ... ;-/
[10:30] <titus`> I know yann have spoken to hno73 about this
[10:30] <hno73> titus`: It's fine by me, but it's a policy question really
[10:30] <hno73> if teams want to do that, then that's great
[10:30] <mitsuhiko> titus`: and it's a question how many teams the servers can handle
[10:30] <smurf> My opinion: we offer it, teams can freely decide what to do
[10:31] <hno73> I'm slightly uncomfortable about making it Europe-only though
[10:31] <hno73> esp. if one service ends up being better than the other
[10:31] <hno73> smurf: +1
[10:31] <smurf> hno73: We tried to supply hosting to a Chinese team and the latency was *awful*  :-/
[10:32] <smurf> so that's a consideration too
[10:32] <opi> smurf, maybe thay could talk to Debian guys from .jp
[10:32] <hno73> smurf: wow, so it's actually good to have a few options
[10:32] <mitsuhiko> hno73: the servers are located in paris
[10:32] <opi> smurf, if we're weak in that parts
[10:32] <hno73> the pronto servers are in the US
[10:32] <hno73> AFAIK
[10:33] <Nafallo> hno73: yes. and just tracerouted vistula :-).
[10:33] <smurf> So, next item ...
[10:33] <titus`> hno73, we have 72 go raid 5 and no limited bandwith
[10:33] <smurf> titus`: sure we have, the 100mbit will be full at some point ;-)
[10:34] <hno73> titus`: sounds great. now we just need to generate traffic :)
[10:34] <smurf> as security.d.o found out this week :-/  -- anyway, back on track please ;-)
[10:34] <smurf> next item
[10:34] <smurf> trademark issues
[10:34] <mitsuhiko> jep
[10:35] <NielsKjoeller> Isn't this mostly an informational topic. Does the LoCoTeams have any say in this?
[10:35] <smurf> The main person responsible for that should be silbs, who isn't here; I've SMSd her but no response either
[10:35] <opi> We did our own Mug/Shirts with the green light from Mako ;)
[10:36] <mitsuhiko> one question to the trademark question
[10:36] <dholbach> opi: what was the URL again?
[10:36] <smurf> It's about guidelines for ubuntu-whatever-named organizations
[10:36] <hno73> the issue is that some teams want to set up a local non-profit right?
[10:36] <hno73> -fr
[10:36] <opi> dholbach, http://butik.pl/ubuntu
[10:36] <titus`> hno73, yes it's right
[10:36] <Nafallo> smurf: like ubuntulinux.se?
[10:36] <hno73> Nafallo: no a real legal entity
[10:36] <dand> smurf: at the last meeting Yann said he got an answer on this issue
[10:36] <hno73> notjust a domain
[10:36] <dand> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-09-12.html
[10:37] <ian_brasil> we have our own logo too in brasil
[10:37] <titus`> dand, the only answer we have is : Why? :/
[10:37] <mitsuhiko> hno73: is it possible to arrange a ubuntu promotion activity and make posters with the ubuntu logo and sort if this?
[10:37] <dand> titus`: oh ok
[10:37] <mitsuhiko> or is there someone whom we have to ask?
[10:37] <hno73> mitsuhiko: yes, no problem
[10:37] <ian_brasil> how can we protect this?
[10:37] <Nafallo> hno73: oki :-)
[10:37] <ian_brasil> through canonical?
[10:38] <mitsuhiko> hno73: fine. is there a sort of press information package we could offer?
[10:38] <opi> dholbach, http://bronikowski.com/upload/Zzz.jpg
[10:38] <titus`> hno73, we need to have a kind of structure because of taxes, credibility and "officialization ?"
[10:38] <mitsuhiko> (ubuntu-de also has a kind of logo but it's under creativecommons)
[10:38] <hno73> Did Yann write a formal request to Canonical about setting up an org using the Ubuntu name?
[10:38] <dholbach> opi: :)
[10:38] <hno73> titus`: I understand
[10:38] <titus`> hno73, yes do you want me to fw the answer to you ?
[10:39] <smurf> hno73: AFAIK he did not because it wasn't yet clear whether we need to
[10:39] <hno73> titus`: yes please
[10:39] <hno73> need to ask or need to set up an org?
[10:39] <ian_brasil> yes ...this structure is really important 
[10:39] <NielsKjoeller> titus: Could you send it this way too? (niels.k.h@gmail.com)
[10:40] <ian_brasil> an ngo?
[10:40] <hno73> ian_brasil: yes
[10:40] <smurf> hno73: we don't yet know whether we need to set up something of oour own so that the companies who gave us the nice shiny servers can get tax deductions in return
[10:40] <smurf> hno73: or if the Foundation will be able to handle that
[10:40] <smurf> hno73: needs to happen this year, though
[10:41] <titus`> hno73, done
[10:41] <titus`> others : http://ubuntu-fr.pastebin.com/370332
[10:41] <hno73> smurf: ok, but if you do need to then I would suggest you make a formal request
[10:41] <ian_brasil> smurf: now
[10:41] <hno73> the foundation will be UK-based
[10:41] <hno73> so I'm not sure that will cover -fr or -de tax issues
[10:41] <hno73> and certainly not non-EU ones
[10:42] <hno73> which will also be an issue at some point I guess
[10:42] <titus`> hno73, we want to create a non profit organisation because there is no taxes for that one
[10:42] <smurf> hno73: probably not. Since the problem right now is a -fr one, yann or whoever probably needs to ask a tax person
[10:43] <hno73> smurf: ok, is setting one up expensive? I think it's like 50 in the UK
[10:43] <titus`> 38 in france to create it
[10:44] <smurf> you just need to find the correct boilerplate for the paperwork ;-)
[10:44] <ian_brasil> i am not so sure about this as it is going to mean a lot of beaurocracy for us to be based in the uk
[10:45] <ian_brasil> and less easy to get sponsorship/financial support from local firms
[10:45] <hno73> If it didn't have 'Ubuntu' in the name, there would be no problem at all
[10:45] <titus`> hno73, yes of course but what about credibility ?
[10:45] <sturmkind> hm no ubuntu in the name 
[10:45] <hno73> in the US we have a non-profit called 'Software Freedom International'
[10:46] <titus`> imagine I ask HP for servers and the association is called linux-france or something else...
[10:46] <smurf> hno73: I dont think not having an ubuntu-whatever name is an option
[10:46] <hno73> The problem with trademarks is that they need to be protected otherwise they loose their validity
[10:47] <smurf> titus`: you'd then have t ask Linus (or rather the people who handle that) for an OK
[10:47] <sturmkind> hno73: right
[10:47] <titus`> smurf, :)
[10:47] <hno73> I read the email and reply now. I can see why silbs is concerned
[10:47] <mitsuhiko> .oO(using a fake name eg. obonto-fr)
[10:47] <smurf> hno73: "for whatever purpose" is definitely not the correct wording
[10:48] <smurf> we'll probably draft a new request, get your OK, and then go for it -- I doubt the French tax people will accept donations to the UK :-/
[10:48] <hno73> smurf: sorry, where is that wording?
[10:49] <smurf> hno73: http://ubuntu-fr.pastebin.com/370332 says "whatever we need it for"
[10:49] <smurf> I paraphrased
[10:49] <titus`> so ubunt-fr ? :/
[10:50] <smurf> OK ... anything else on the trademark / naming item?
[10:50] <hno73> smurf: right, that is certainly too loose
[10:50] <smurf> titus`: anything *serious* ;-)
[10:50] <opi> utunubu-PL :)
[10:50] <mitsuhiko> smurf: nothing from me
[10:50] <mitsuhiko> opi: that can gets a problem with debian ^^
[10:50] <mitsuhiko> s/gets/becomes
[10:50] <ian_brasil> smurf: so what is the outcome
[10:50] <hno73> opi: domain or ngo?
[10:51] <mitsuhiko> ian_brasil: no ubuntu in the name :)
[10:51] <smurf> ian_brasil: The end result will probably a French association with close ties to the Ubuntu Foundation
[10:51] <opi> hno73, no, just kidding. We have ubuntu-pl.org from Canonical
[10:52] <hno73> Sounds like a question for the CC really
[10:52] <sturmkind> opi: *g*
[10:52] <ian_brasil> so the french team will document this process?
[10:52] <smurf> ian_brasil: definitely
[10:52] <smurf> next item ... CDs and conference packs
[10:53] <ian_brasil> excellent
[10:53] <hno73> they should have an opinion on the general principle for this
[10:53] <smurf> hno73: we'll go there with some sort of proposal, I'd say
[10:53] <smurf> anyway
[10:53] <smurf> people need CDs and other stuff, and don't seem to be able to get them
[10:53] <smurf> even with 2month lead time
[10:54] <mitsuhiko> the german team has looked for some improvements: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/shipit
[10:54] <opi> smurf, it's because people request CD in instane quanities
[10:54] <mitsuhiko> and the french one found a firm which would handle shipit for france
[10:54] <opi> smurf, I've made a sugestion for Launchpad guys
[10:54] <opi> smurf, SmartShipping
[10:55] <Nafallo> opi: what's insane quantity then? :-)
[10:55] <sturmkind> msg mitsuhiko lol wie wre es mit 'friends of ubuntu'? naja spa bei seite und weiter auf #ubuntu-meeting
[10:55] <opi> smurf, if you request a CD, and there's some Ubuntu guy around you, who did order a few, you will be pointed to him
[10:55] <smurf> opi: the problem is conferences and similar events
[10:55] <opi> smurf, that would decrase number of CD shiped to random people and get Ubuntu-using people closer (think LoCo)
[10:56] <NielsKjoeller> Maybe it would be an idea, if Ship-it required you to give a reason when ordering 10+ CDs?
[10:56] <titus`> opi, that what we are going to do for local associations
[10:56] <opi> smurf, maybe CD cover could be downloadable, so people could do some in-house printin
[10:56] <NielsKjoeller> Maybe 50+
[10:56] <mitsuhiko> hno73: which firm handles the shipit? I think it's not canonical :)
[10:56] <Nafallo> next shipit does something like that :-)
[10:56] <juliux> NielsKjoeller, that does not work even better
[10:56] <hno73> NielsKjoeller: The new one will do that
[10:56] <opi> titus`, but we could use Launchpad to get it started
[10:57] <hno73> mitsuhiko: it is a Dutch company
[10:57] <hno73> they are generally very good
[10:57] <smurf> Is there somebody here who can actually tell us something about the curent ShipIt state-of-affairs and what to do if you *do* need 200+ CDs next month?
[10:57] <titus`> hno73, can we have about 5000 cds at the end of october and then we redistribute them for french associations which distribute them during conferences...
[10:58] <hno73> we looked for companies in the US that could compete locally, but didn't find any better alternatives
[10:58] <mitsuhiko> hno73: the question is: "Is there a company shipping ubuntu cds locally?"
[10:58] <ian_brasil> we have a specific problem in Brzil
[10:58] <hno73> titus`: Breezy gets released at the very end of October
[10:58] <sturmkind> ian_brasil: ?
[10:58] <opi> smurf, I think we need someone from CoC next time
[10:58] <mitsuhiko> requesting cd's from a dutch company is expensive afaik
[10:58] <smurf> mitsuhiko: I don't care if it's shipped locally, I care that it's shipped timely
[10:58] <hno73> it takes a few days/weeks to make CDs ...
[10:58] <ian_brasil> companies here are getting CD's and selling them
[10:59] <titus`> hno73, once it is possible I wanted to say
[10:59] <ian_brasil> what can we do about this
[10:59] <sturmkind> ian_brasil: we have the problems with peoples who sell them in ebay
[10:59] <mitsuhiko> smurf: i know. but i know how difficult it is to get answers from the shipit mail addy
[10:59] <titus`> we have already the company which redistribute CDs
[10:59] <NielsKjoeller> Sturmkind, ian_brasil: This is quite normal. Happens everywhere.
[10:59] <hno73> I think the timelyness will improve with the new system
[10:59] <ian_brasil> oh
[11:00] <hno73> shippments are already being send to local re-distributors
[11:00] <opi> NielsKjoeller, our main online auction provider bans all Ubuntu ShipIt CDs :P
[11:00] <hno73> it's part of the network that the shipping company has
[11:00] <NielsKjoeller> I saw a suggestion on Ubuntuforums, about printing "Price: $0.00" on the CDs. That is a very good idea, IMHO.
[11:00] <hno73> I think it's tricky to improve on that with a home-made solution
[11:01] <titus`> NielsKjoeller, +1
[11:01] <opi> NielsKjoeller, actually, I've spoken with Mark on that subject
[11:01] <hno73> I shipped out 80+ sets of CDs for SFD, and that was a fair bit of work :)
[11:01] <opi> NielsKjoeller, he has no problem with people selling ShipIt CDs
[11:01] <mitsuhiko> hno73: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/shipit
[11:01] <smurf> hno73: "ShipIt lets you order Ubuntu 5.10 CDs that will be posted to you free of charge." That doesn't quite help the people who have local events next month.
[11:01] <titus`> hno73, we tried to make it faster but it's not easy...
[11:01] <opi> NielsKjoeller, but we would prefer that this money would go to a LoCo
[11:02] <smurf> I'd like to have an interim(?) solution for them if at all possible.
[11:02] <mitsuhiko> hno73: simple question. Whom to ask for a large amount of cds?
[11:02] <hno73> smurf: so next moth would be Hoary CDs?
[11:02] <hno73> mitsuhiko: email the shipit address
[11:02] <smurf> NielsKjoeller: That would actually also help those whose CDs get stuck in customs ...
[11:03] <smurf> hno73: if the choice is "hoary CDs" or "no CDs at all", I guess there are some people out here who prefer the former
[11:03] <mitsuhiko> hno73: we tried it some weeks ago. the german MOTUs had to send their CDs to juliux because there was no response form shipit
[11:03] <smurf> (or "too late")
[11:03] <NielsKjoeller> smurf: Yes, that would be a nice side effect. Or maybe this should be the main effect, and the ebay-thing the side-effect :-D
[11:03] <juliux> no there where no cd's yet
[11:04] <hno73> there is currently a change in personel on shipit, but it should improve greatly
[11:04] <juliux> hno73, we(GNOME Germany) tried this year two times to get cd's for events but nothing happens
[11:04] <hno73> we have also made some changes to the customs issue
[11:04] <titus`> http://www.ubuntu-fr.org/map/ we want to extend this map with informations like the number of CDs avalaible by member, what's your opinion ?
[11:04] <xuzo> i agree with smurf, "hoary CDs" is better than "no CDs"
[11:05] <hno73> improving the labeling, to make it more clear that it is free stuff
[11:05] <smurf> hno73: good
[11:05] <sturmkind> hno73: print 'free stuff' on it :-)
[11:05] <hno73> juliux: perhaps we should set up a wiki page with events that need CDs so no one will be surprised
[11:06] <Nafallo> sturmkind: that's what "price: $0" does? ;-)
[11:06] <juliux> hno73, that is a very good idea
[11:06] <sturmkind> Nafallo: yes i know :-)
[11:06] <hno73> sturmkind: it will refer to the Ubuntu founfation instead of MediaMotion for a start
[11:07] <smurf> Hmm, that page could be used to forward not-distributed CDs to the next event, in case there are any ;-)
[11:07] <hno73> and explain what Free Software is
[11:07] <smurf> Anyway, *is* there a solution for the "we have an event in two weeks" people?
[11:07] <Nafallo> could we say more about this? :-P
[11:07] <hno73> Nafallo: referring to a non-profit will help though 
[11:08] <Nafallo> smurf: IMO no :-)
[11:08] <smurf> Nafallo: wrong smiley ...
[11:08] <opi> smurf, maybe they should request two months before event?
[11:08] <hno73> smurf: can we set up local burners?
[11:08] <opi> smurf, I know it's not allways possible
[11:08] <Nafallo> smurf: hehe, depends on how you look at it. two weeks should have been two months for my smiliey to change ;-)
[11:08] <smurf> hno73: is the artwork available?
[11:08] <hno73> It might be good for those who want to distribute pre-releases or something
[11:09] <opi> smurf, but most of evens are planed loooong before they reach 2 more weeks state
[11:09] <juliux> opi, also 2 months before a event did not help
[11:09] <hno73> (to the right sort of audience)
[11:09] <opi> :-(
[11:09] <smurf> opi: Those people DID ASK two months ago
[11:09] <hno73> smurf: not that I know
[11:09] <smurf> and didn't get a shipment
[11:09] <mitsuhiko> hno73: but we konow
[11:09] <mitsuhiko> i was one of them
[11:09] <ian_brasil> we asked 4 months ago :(
[11:09] <sturmkind> usambara: Hallo, ich hoffe Dir und Deiner Mutter geht es ein wenig besser
[11:09] <Nafallo> juliux: but for that we should give the improvements made already a chance IMHO :-)
[11:09] <Simira> smurf: which event is this?
[11:10] <opi> ian_brasil, well, at least you wait in better weather condition, than we do :-D
[11:10] <hno73> I think the wiki page will help stop things falling through the cracks
[11:10] <Nafallo> juliux: maybe two months is enough with the new shipit :-)
[11:10] <juliux> Nafallo, ok i hope so
[11:10] <smurf> Simira: Linux-Info-Tag Dresden, for one (I hpe I got the name right)
[11:10] <smurf> s/hpe/hope/
[11:10] <juliux> smurf, yes it is right
[11:11] <hno73> night all
[11:11] <Nafallo> hno73: godnatt :-)
[11:11] <mitsuhiko> hno73: n8
[11:11] <NielsKjoeller> night
[11:11] <smurf> bye hno73 
[11:11] <opi> next order of buissnes is?
[11:11] <NielsKjoeller> Conference packs.
[11:11] <mitsuhiko> opi: nothing
[11:11] <smurf> anything else on this item that hasn't been said three times already? ;-)
[11:11] <mitsuhiko> lv missing and canonical also
[11:12] <opi> OK, I have a question
[11:12] <opi> or a proposal
[11:12] <opi> Being a lousy LoCo leader, I got wonder -- maybe there should be a democracy ;)
[11:13] <smurf> conference packs might be a good topic for ubuntu-artwork
[11:13] <opi> how about a rule that a Leader should be reapointed by both CoC and people from LoCo
[11:13] <mitsuhiko> smurf: and for the translation teams
[11:13] <opi> every two release of Ubuntu
[11:13] <mitsuhiko> opi: i think each locoteam should handle this on itself
[11:13] <smurf> opi: hat is the problem you want to solve?
[11:13] <opi> people form LoCo tends to think: he was elected by CoC, we should not badmouth him ;-)
[11:14] <smurf> s/hat/what
[11:14] <smurf> the CC does not elect anybody
[11:14] <opi> smurf, give a signal that it's in LoCo hands, who runs them
[11:14] <mitsuhiko> smurf: this leth's me think on ubuntu-lv
[11:14] <NielsKjoeller> Smurf: No, Hat IS the problem. We need hats!
[11:14] <opi> NielsKjoeller, actaully, I like hats :)
[11:14] <NielsKjoeller> opi: Me too :-D
[11:15] <mitsuhiko> NielsKjoeller: as long as those arn't red
[11:15] <smurf> *but* that's not even on the agenda
[11:15] <opi> smurf, I would put it on agenda
[11:15] <mitsuhiko> .oO(hm. baseball caps with ubuntu logo)
[11:15] <mitsuhiko> +2
[11:15] <smurf> I kindof would like to stick with that, it's late enough here
[11:15] <mitsuhiko> ^^
[11:15] <opi> smurf, but my lousy P2/400 almost died while connecting to https :(
[11:15] <mitsuhiko> i think meeting is over
[11:15] <NielsKjoeller> Smurf: a worthy question of next  week.
[11:15] <opi> smurf, OK, I'm taking that back
[11:15] <NielsKjoeller> Not lv or LoCoTeamTeam?
[11:16] <smurf> Mithrandir:  not quite
[11:16] <smurf> next item is LoCoTeamTeam ;-)
[11:16] <smurf> I think we do need something like that
[11:16] <Mithrandir> smurf: humm?
[11:16] <opi> I almost hear last Metallica CD: Some kind of Monster ;)
[11:16] <smurf> " Relations to Canonical - eventual creation of a Locoteams team, to improve communication between canonical and locoteams"
[11:17] <titus`> smurf, communication ? what communication ? we are in a cathedral ;)
[11:17] <dand> titus`: we have to admit we're not really organized
[11:18] <smurf> titus`: which is part of the problem, and I'd like to solve it
[11:18] <NielsKjoeller> Speaking as an unofficial contact of an unofficial team, I still think it to be a grand idea.
[11:18] <mitsuhiko> i think we should create a wikipage with a locoteams FAQ
[11:18] <mitsuhiko> we ask questions and canonical write answers
[11:19] <titus`> we have only one hour a month the locoteams leader...
[11:19] <smurf> mitsuhiko: wikipage => yes, but I don't think we need question and answers
[11:19] <Nafallo> can't we just ping canonical dudes like we do now? :-)
[11:19] <smurf> we need people who are responsible for items and Do Stuff
[11:19] <mitsuhiko> smurf: but if one locoteam has a question then all should get the answer
[11:19] <smurf> Nafallo: that doesn't always work
[11:20] <mitsuhiko> Nafallo: it it was that easy we all would do
[11:20] <Nafallo> smurf: oh, always wfm :-P
[11:21] <sturmkind> lol
[11:21] <NielsKjoeller> What size should this team have? Is there more work than 3-4 people can handle?
[11:22] <smurf> There's already a "what to do as a loco" wiki page (The LoCoTeams one), but it's short on how-to
[11:22] <smurf> fixing that should be a priority
[11:22] <smurf> NielsKjoeller: I do't think so
[11:23] <smurf> I see a distinct lack of "yeah, me, I'll do ..." replies here ;-)
[11:24] <smurf> Speaking of which, is somebody here able to summarize this meeting and send that to the loco mailing list?
[11:24] <mitsuhiko> smurf: i can do
[11:24] <mitsuhiko> if it can wait until tomorrow
[11:25] <smurf> mitsuhiko: thanks. Sure
[11:25] <mitsuhiko> smurf: no problem
[11:25] <ian_brasil> what does Do Stuff mean exactly
[11:25] <mitsuhiko> ian_brasil: events
[11:25] <NielsKjoeller> smurf: ;-) - actually I would like to do something, but I don't know what to do. I do not feel capable of writing a howto, since Ubuntu-dk is probably the slowest team ever.
[11:26] <dand> I'd be interested in what other teams are doing atm... I'd definitely wouldn't mind if we'd have regular meetings and talk about present/future activities...
[11:27] <mitsuhiko> dand: atm ubuntu-de only is a kind of supporting platform
[11:27] <mitsuhiko> irc, forum and wiki
[11:27] <smurf> dand: good idea
[11:27] <mitsuhiko> but in the future we would like to do some events
[11:27] <ian_brasil> dand:great idea
[11:27] <mitsuhiko> dand: +1
[11:28] <dand> for instance, the only SFD report I saw was from mako...
[11:29] <Ju`> and the role of locteam could be to organise cd distribution, if shipit send a lot of cd to a team, it could be a great source of economy... andhave directly all cds needed for event.
[11:29] <smurf> I'd like to propose to expand the LoCo documentation a bit, in that direction
[11:29] <mitsuhiko> we need a second meeting. dholbach is planning something but he hasn't finished his report until today :(
[11:29] <mitsuhiko> s/second/third ^^
[11:29] <dholbach> mitsuhiko: we're in the "brainstorming" state - and i didn't intend to write a report
[11:30] <smurf> LoCoTeams has a somewhat-large list of activities people might do, and in fact I think all of that has been done by somebody-or-other already
[11:30] <dholbach> :)
[11:30] <mitsuhiko> shaga: :)
[11:30] <mitsuhiko> s/shaga/dholbach
[11:30] <mitsuhiko> dholbach: :)
[11:30] <smurf> so, everybody: if you did something that's on the list, create a wiki page linked off that, and write about it
[11:31] <smurf> and if you did something else loco-related that's not, add it ;-)
[11:31] <smurf> that should help getting more communication going between the teams, which I think is a bit lacking right now
[11:32] <smurf> Thoughts? (Other than "this meeting is too long already" ;-)
[11:32] <sturmkind> this meeting is too long already :-P
[11:33] <NielsKjoeller> Not any more on LoCoTeamTeam, right now.
[11:33] <ian_brasil> i am glad we finally met up
[11:33] <littlepaul> smurf, there should be more communication on #ubuntu-locoteams
[11:33] <smurf> Last agenda item -- LV. Is there anybody here from them?
[11:33] <NielsKjoeller> sturmkind: Was thinking about doing that one, but thought "Nah, it is too obvious" :P
[11:34] <sturmkind> hehe
[11:34] <titus`> name...no, local shipit... no, hosting... not yet, main concerned person.... away, great meeting isn't it ?
[11:34] <Nafallo> hehe
[11:34] <smurf> ... apparently not ..?
[11:34] <sturmkind> short, very short ^^
[11:34] <Nafallo> Sweden and Greece have hosting from canonical. and it works :-)
[11:35] <dholbach> titus`: and there's a contact for hosting too
[11:36] <smurf> titus`: the name is not "no", just "not like that" (which is certainly understandable).
[11:36] <ozamosi> Nafallo: well, not always. But that's my fault :)
[11:36] <Nafallo> ozamosi: indeed ;-)
[11:37] <smurf> OK -- I think we can close the meeting for today
[11:37] <Nafallo> ehm, meeting closed? :-)
[11:37] <mitsuhiko> smurf: nobody here
[11:37] <smurf> when should we meet next?
[11:37] <mitsuhiko> jep
[11:37] <NielsKjoeller> two weeks?
[11:37] <mitsuhiko> smurf: i send you the report tomorrow
[11:37] <Nafallo> smurf: the wiki says "when we need to talk" :-P
[11:37] <mitsuhiko> NielsKjoeller: let's discuss this on the loco-contacts lists
[11:37] <mitsuhiko> -s
[11:38] <NielsKjoeller> Two weeks minus two days?
[11:38] <NielsKjoeller> mitsuhiko: Let's do that. I need to sleep. Gotta get up in 5 hours :-(
[11:39] <smurf> Monday 3rd, a bit earlier (18:00 UTC) ?
[11:39] <ian_brasil> ok
[11:39] <Nafallo> ozamosi: don't you have jujitsu on mondays?
[11:39] <ozamosi> Nafallo: um. Yup. You could always cover for me, though..
[11:40] <Nafallo> ozamosi: you are the contact, I'm just an admin ;-).
[11:40] <sturmkind> so i have to go to, a eleven hour work day knocks you out ;-(
[11:40] <sturmkind> bye
[11:40] <ian_brasil> tchau
[11:40] <rbelem> tchau
[11:40] <ozamosi> Nafallo: but since you have made me "moin expert", i make you "loco meeting expert" :P
[11:41] <Nafallo> ozamosi: lol :-P
[11:41] <mitsuhiko> smurf: 18:00 is perfect
[11:41] <dand> mitsuhiko: +1
[11:41] <smurf> OK, we'll propose that date+time on the mailing list
[11:41] <Nafallo> ozamosi: btw, I have french class on mondays ;-)
[11:41] <smurf> Nafallo: not a problem, titus` can probably give you lessons ;-)
[11:42] <Nafallo> Sweden will not be here next meeting :-)
[11:42] <Nafallo> smurf: hehe, if the distance where shorter or we had VoIP ;-)
[11:42] <titus`> Nafallo, homeworks ? ;)
[11:43] <Nafallo> titus`: hehe, I actually forgot the day the last two mondays *blushes*
[11:46] <mitsuhiko> so. i will leave
[11:46] <mitsuhiko> cu all
[11:46] <Nafallo> mitsuhiko: see you :-)
[11:47] <dand> cya