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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | ||
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | ||
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 22 Sep 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Sep 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 27 Sep 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 28 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 3 Oct 18:00 UTC: LoCo Teams | 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | ||
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| Lathiat | Thu Sep 22 10:34:38 UTC 2005 | 12:34 |
|---|---|---|
| ajmitch | yes, thanks for that ;) | 12:35 |
| Lathiat | im so helpfull | 12:35 |
| ajmitch | sure | 12:36 |
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| === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@DSL01.83.171.161.183.NEFkom.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| ajmitch | ok | 02:00 |
| ajmitch | who's around for the meeting? :) | 02:00 |
| === infinito [n=infinito@75.Red-80-59-227.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| === sistpoty is Stefan Potyra | ||
| slomo | ajmitch: i am... at least partially ;) | 02:00 |
| sistpoty | hehe | 02:01 |
| ajmitch | we don't usually do name intros here, since there's no need to match wiki pages to potential members ;) | 02:01 |
| ajmitch | slomo: pff, it's midnight here | 02:01 |
| sistpoty | ah... thought it would some kind of tradition ;) | 02:01 |
| Yagisan | 10pm here | 02:01 |
| === ajmitch knows ogra, Lathiat, and others were around.. | ||
| shaga | 3pm | 02:02 |
| ajmitch | no dholbach? | 02:02 |
| shaga | I was speaking about the time whats now :) | 02:02 |
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| slomo | ajmitch: 14:02 here... but i have to learn mathematics ;) | 02:02 |
| slomo | wb Nafallo | 02:02 |
| ajmitch | bah | 02:02 |
| Nafallo | morning all :-) | 02:02 |
| ajmitch | hi Nafallo | 02:03 |
| === Nafallo == ChristianBjlevik | ||
| === ogra <- OlverGrawert | ||
| === siretart Reinhard Tartler | ||
| === ajmitch gives up :) | ||
| siretart | hi folks ;) | 02:03 |
| sistpoty | huhu siretart | 02:03 |
| Yagisan | well if we are giving intros | 02:03 |
| siretart | hi sistpoty | 02:03 |
| === Yagisan == Jamie Jones | ||
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| Nafallo | ahh, motumeeting _and_ breakfast :-) | 02:04 |
| dholbach | hi | 02:04 |
| ajmitch | hi dholbach | 02:04 |
| sistpoty | hi dholbach | 02:04 |
| slomo | hi dholbach | 02:04 |
| dholbach | hi everybody | 02:04 |
| === Yagisan runs for a coffee | ||
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| ajmitch | ok, who wants to volunteer to do the meeting minutes this week? | 02:04 |
| ajmitch | shall I do them again? | 02:04 |
| ogra | if you like ... i'm stuffed... | 02:04 |
| Nafallo | why is my IRC screwed? I've got - and + before all names | 02:05 |
| ajmitch | ogra: understandable | 02:05 |
| sistpoty | i can do the minutes... but only if someone will correct them ;) | 02:05 |
| ajmitch | we've got enough people here to get started then | 02:05 |
| ogra | (the edubutu DVD will be used by the club of rome to promote their documents) | 02:05 |
| === siretart is currently at work, will have some lags here | ||
| ogra | and by the unesco... | 02:05 |
| dholbach | ogra: ROCK'N'ROLL! | 02:05 |
| ogra | yep :) | 02:06 |
| === dholbach is amazed | ||
| === sivang faints | ||
| ajmitch | ogra: oh man, that's cool! | 02:06 |
| siretart | sounds great! | 02:06 |
| ajmitch | good work :) | 02:06 |
| ogra | :) | 02:06 |
| Nafallo | wow | 02:06 |
| dholbach | let's get cracking | 02:06 |
| sivang | ogra: amazing, were they impressed by the quality ? | 02:07 |
| ajmitch | first item, REVU | 02:07 |
| dholbach | sistpoty: your item, i believe? | 02:07 |
| sistpoty | not revu actually, but the server sponsored by canonical | 02:07 |
| Nafallo | s/REVU/tiber/ :-) | 02:07 |
| sistpoty | since we have it... why not use it for MOTU business as well ;) | 02:07 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: such as? | 02:07 |
| ogra | RT ? | 02:07 |
| sivang | sistpoty: MOTU have a server from canonical ? | 02:07 |
| Nafallo | sistpoty: like a people.ubuntu.com derivate? | 02:07 |
| ajmitch | webspace for other uploads? | 02:07 |
| ajmitch | ogra: hm, could be good :) | 02:08 |
| sistpoty | whatever we could need it for | 02:08 |
| ogra | err, that should comae anyway through launchpad at some point i think | 02:08 |
| ogra | (p.u.c functionality) | 02:08 |
| dholbach | somebody could doublecheck in #launchpad | 02:08 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: they've got a meeting now | 02:08 |
| siretart | sistpoty: I think the point was to use it as developer machine. in the meantime I hacked this revu-build script | 02:09 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: oh i see | 02:09 |
| dholbach | siretart: that's excellent news | 02:09 |
| \sh | morning | 02:09 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: chroots setup for package building? how fast is the box? | 02:09 |
| ajmitch | morning \sh | 02:09 |
| siretart | sistpoty: any root on tiber can now throw revu uploads into revu build, and get it autobuilt and some more diagnostics | 02:09 |
| ajmitch | I thought it was a shared linode box | 02:09 |
| ogra | i think we urgently need something better than UniverseCandidates .... that would be my first shot for additional services | 02:09 |
| sistpoty | siretart: cool | 02:09 |
| siretart | I think some ppl have already seen what I mean | 02:09 |
| ajmitch | ogra: yes, certainly | 02:09 |
| dholbach | yeah that'd rock | 02:10 |
| ajmitch | ogra: even malone would be better than universecandidates :) | 02:10 |
| ogra | heh | 02:10 |
| ajmitch | well, when LP is working | 02:10 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: AMD Sempron(tm) 2400+ | 02:10 |
| \sh | I think RT is a kewl solution | 02:10 |
| \sh | or via trac | 02:10 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: so it's not a shared box, but a dedicated server for MOTUs? :) | 02:10 |
| \sh | the ticketing system is also nice | 02:10 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: i dunno if this is a vserver or a dedicated one... how could i check? | 02:11 |
| === ajmitch doesn't care which one is used, anything would be an improvement on what we have | ||
| ogra | yup | 02:11 |
| dholbach | maybe we can fire up a wiki page to collect ideas for pages that organize our work a bit better | 02:11 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: good idea | 02:12 |
| dholbach | like short script for morguecandidates, syncs to make sure they are done, ... | 02:12 |
| ajmitch | otherwise we'll waste the meeting time talking about various things we could do :) | 02:12 |
| siretart | mom | 02:12 |
| dholbach | yeah | 02:12 |
| ogra | yup, we ned a tool thats good at transition lists... and a tool for the UniverseCandidates | 02:12 |
| dholbach | yeah | 02:12 |
| dholbach | that sounds excellent | 02:12 |
| === ajmitch has a bunch of scritps here that could be put on it | ||
| ogra | preferable one that can do both | 02:12 |
| ajmitch | for transitions, unmet deps, etc | 02:13 |
| dholbach | MOTUWebTools ? | 02:13 |
| ogra | sournds good | 02:13 |
| dholbach | starting it | 02:13 |
| ogra | :) | 02:13 |
| dholbach | next item? | 02:13 |
| === ajmitch will have to clean up his messy scripts first ;) | ||
| ajmitch | UVF, and the lack of knowledge of it? | 02:13 |
| sistpoty | i'd like to speak about user-accounts | 02:13 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: ok | 02:13 |
| sistpoty | on tiber... if you don't mind | 02:13 |
| ajmitch | go ahead :) | 02:13 |
| sistpoty | how do we want to handle this? i don't object about giving every modu root-rights... | 02:14 |
| sistpoty | but this might lead to some administering chaos | 02:14 |
| sistpoty | any ideas? | 02:14 |
| siretart | I think this should be handled by request | 02:14 |
| sistpoty | s/modu/motu ;) | 02:14 |
| ajmitch | siretart: agreed | 02:14 |
| ajmitch | given on need | 02:15 |
| siretart | if some motu wants an account on tiber, we can create it | 02:15 |
| ajmitch | and stuff should be setup such that few people _need_ root | 02:15 |
| siretart | the applicant should state what he intends to do on tiber | 02:15 |
| Yagisan | perhaps striping unneeded rights with something like grsec | 02:15 |
| === ajmitch wants to h4x0r the world | ||
| siretart | and we will consider if root rights are necessary | 02:15 |
| sistpoty | siretart: agreed | 02:15 |
| Yagisan | s/striping/stripping | 02:15 |
| Nafallo | /etc/sudoers can be set up as needed | 02:15 |
| ogra | i think a good group management is enough, no need for custom kernel stuff etc | 02:16 |
| siretart | for http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/Revu1Building - root is needed, though | 02:16 |
| ajmitch | siretart: sudo can be setup to run just some commands - not really secure, but avoids accidental mistakes | 02:16 |
| ogra | ajmitch++ | 02:16 |
| ajmitch | anyone building stuff in a chroot can probably still own the box anyway ;) | 02:16 |
| \sh | I would say, siretart will be the the "uber-root" of this machine... | 02:16 |
| slomo | siretart: for example you could just allow sudo on revu-build for everybody or something like that | 02:17 |
| sistpoty | hehe | 02:17 |
| ogra | :) | 02:17 |
| siretart | ajmitch: sudo rights for pbuilding is effectly root | 02:17 |
| Yagisan | ajmitch: that's not always true ... | 02:17 |
| dholbach | did anyone notice that the wiki is f.cking slow? | 02:17 |
| ogra | yup | 02:17 |
| Yagisan | yes - it's always slow | 02:17 |
| ogra | yesterday already | 02:17 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: no, but we've got a stock ubuntu install, no chroot hardening at the moment, iirc | 02:17 |
| Yagisan | ajmitch: I see | 02:17 |
| siretart | \sh: hehe - I think we should establish a tiber admin team, in case e.g. me is not available or very busy | 02:17 |
| dholbach | wiki page is there | 02:18 |
| sistpoty | siretart++ | 02:18 |
| dholbach | super | 02:18 |
| ajmitch | siretart: or sleeping, since all the admin team in one country isn't so helpful at times :) | 02:18 |
| \sh | siretart: backup is a good thing...we should avoid SPoFs | 02:18 |
| Yagisan | ajmitch - If needed - could we change kernel or turn on selinux etc ? | 02:18 |
| === Lathiat casually wanders in | ||
| ajmitch | Yagisan: probably doable, depending on if it's a shared box, etc | 02:18 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: I haven't seen the box yet | 02:19 |
| ogra | i'm oppsed to change the kernel | 02:19 |
| siretart | \sh: do you have some time in future (not atm but general) to do adminning buissness on tiber? | 02:19 |
| ogra | we loose the upgradeability | 02:19 |
| ajmitch | ogra: as am I, but we can fit selinux in if needed | 02:19 |
| \sh | siretart: well...I'm always on :) so I can do some things... | 02:19 |
| siretart | Yagisan: I'd rather put xen on tiber | 02:19 |
| Yagisan | ogra: I think selinux also can do the caps - bit it's set to diablled by default | 02:19 |
| ogra | ajmitch, thats only a boot option, right ? | 02:19 |
| Yagisan | ogra: yes | 02:19 |
| sistpoty | hm... imo all the motu's are trustworthy enough to "have" root rights... i see the real problem in several persons fiddling on the same stuff so the sudoers variant for pbuilder should suffice | 02:19 |
| Nafallo | could someone check with whoever fixed that box exactly what it is? :-) | 02:19 |
| ogra | ok | 02:19 |
| \sh | anyways...lets agree on an admin team all over the main motu TZs and lets move on :) | 02:19 |
| siretart | ok, in this case, I'd propose sistpoty, sh and myself as core tiber admin team, | 02:20 |
| dholbach | yeah | 02:20 |
| ogra | sistpoty, even the best MOTUs make mistakes | 02:20 |
| Nafallo | siretart: same country :-P | 02:20 |
| === Lathiat is happy to | ||
| dholbach | :) | 02:20 |
| sistpoty | ogra: that's why i prefer the sudoers variant... but let's move on | 02:20 |
| \sh | everyone makes mistakes..sometimes small ones..and sometimes..forget it ;9 | 02:20 |
| siretart | we will handle account requests, via an alias file, will create an alias for this: admin@tiber.tauware.de | 02:20 |
| siretart | Nafallo: oh. you're right, that was not on purpose | 02:21 |
| dholbach | excellent idea | 02:21 |
| Nafallo | I would like ajmitch on that admin theme personally :-). | 02:21 |
| Lathiat | admin theme hey | 02:21 |
| ajmitch | heh | 02:21 |
| Nafallo | hehe, or team ;-) | 02:21 |
| ajmitch | theming, sounds like andyfitz territory ;) | 02:21 |
| ogra | do we have somebody from the US ? | 02:21 |
| \sh | bddebian ;) | 02:21 |
| ogra | to add to this team ? | 02:21 |
| ogra | great :) | 02:22 |
| ajmitch | we're a little short on US MOTUs at the moment :) | 02:22 |
| ajmitch | seems to be mostly europe active | 02:22 |
| Lathiat | what is the us timezone | 02:22 |
| Lathiat | -4 or something? | 02:22 |
| ogra | but bddebian is a good start :) | 02:22 |
| ajmitch | yes | 02:22 |
| Nafallo | ajmitch: you are awake when germany is asleep most times, no? :-) | 02:22 |
| Lathiat | what a guess | 02:22 |
| ajmitch | Nafallo: sure, I'm about 12 hours different, and I'm addicted to IRC ;) | 02:23 |
| \sh | Lathiat: -6? | 02:23 |
| Nafallo | so ajmitch for admin then ;-) | 02:23 |
| Lathiat | \sh: ah | 02:23 |
| ajmitch | Lathiat: depends which US TZ you mean | 02:23 |
| siretart | admin@tiber.tauware.de should work now | 02:23 |
| \sh | east-coast should be ok | 02:23 |
| ajmitch | ok, so who's on the team? | 02:23 |
| dcraven | -4 here in Canada, but there are 3 tzs. | 02:23 |
| \sh | ajmitch: bddebian ;) | 02:23 |
| ajmitch | \sh: ok | 02:24 |
| dholbach | tseng is in the US as well | 02:24 |
| Nafallo | could we _ask_ bddebian before? :-) | 02:24 |
| \sh | ajmitch: i think it should be: you, bddebian (US), siretart | 02:24 |
| \sh | Nafallo: no...it's settled | 02:24 |
| Nafallo | hehe | 02:24 |
| ogra | ah, yes, or tseng... but tseng was busy recently | 02:24 |
| \sh | Nafallo: he would say always "No, I'm a n00b" but I don't believe bddebian | 02:25 |
| ajmitch | \sh: bddebian has plenty of admin experience | 02:25 |
| \sh | Nafallo: so giving him the job is the best we can do for him ;) | 02:25 |
| \sh | ajmitch: but he's is playing a fool with us ;) | 02:25 |
| dholbach | yeah, he likes his little jokes | 02:25 |
| Nafallo | hehe, okey. we use the --force on him then :-P | 02:25 |
| \sh | s/a/the/ | 02:25 |
| dholbach | ok, next item? | 02:26 |
| dholbach | :) | 02:26 |
| \sh | UVF for universe and multiverse (ReinhardTartler, ajmitch) | 02:26 |
| ajmitch | the fact that recent MOTUs just don't know that we had UVF for universe | 02:27 |
| ajmitch | and we got a few broken syncs of new upstream versions | 02:27 |
| ogra | damned | 02:27 |
| \sh | which ones? vpnc is fixed ;) | 02:27 |
| Nafallo | hmm, not even I knew that :-P | 02:27 |
| dholbach | it's quite easy to answer that, i guess - if a new version fixes a problem easier than patching/fixing/cirvumventing, we should get it in (especially, if it's in debian) - we should insist on testbuilds and tests before | 02:27 |
| ogra | regardless of UVF, syncs should *always* be tested before requesting the sync ! | 02:28 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: not just that, but that UVF exceptions were meant to be passed by you/ogra/some others, with those conditions | 02:28 |
| ajmitch | ogra: yes, agreed | 02:28 |
| dcraven | Can someone say what UVF stands for so us new folk can keep up? | 02:28 |
| Yagisan | Ubuntu Version Freeze | 02:29 |
| Mithrandir | dcraven: upstream version freezy | 02:29 |
| Mithrandir | freeze, even | 02:29 |
| Lathiat | upstream version freeze | 02:29 |
| dcraven | cheers | 02:29 |
| ogra | upstream version freeze | 02:29 |
| === Yagisan is close enough | ||
| ogra | we ar in it since 2 months | 02:29 |
| dholbach | Mithrandir: freezy is funny - we should have it in one of the next releases :) | 02:29 |
| dholbach | Mithrandir: and announce it at UbuntuBelowZero :) | 02:29 |
| ogra | so new upstream versions need approval before they are done, to make sure a second pair of eyes looks over them | 02:29 |
| Mithrandir | dholbach: aka outdoors meeting? | 02:29 |
| dholbach | hehe, exactly | 02:30 |
| Nafallo | hehe | 02:30 |
| ogra | *shiver* | 02:30 |
| ajmitch | ogra: we need this written up on a wiki page, with the people to contact for UVF exceptions | 02:30 |
| dholbach | smokers bofs :) | 02:30 |
| \sh | for dapper we HAVE to stay with UVF/FF etc. | 02:30 |
| Nafallo | \sh: agreed | 02:30 |
| ogra | ajmitch, we also need to respect it completely in dapper... | 02:30 |
| ajmitch | we have to maintain a *high* quality for dapper | 02:30 |
| ajmitch | ogra: yes, given exceptions that are tested | 02:31 |
| ogra | so no need for a wiki page, since we will have to follow the release schedule completely in dapper | 02:31 |
| \sh | for breezy it was as well a bit shitty, cause all this transitions and {gcc,g++}-4 fixes... | 02:31 |
| === Yagisan thinks you need more motus for dapper | ||
| ajmitch | Yagisan: of course | 02:31 |
| ogra | remember we'll have to support dapper for 5 years | 02:31 |
| ajmitch | my main problem with UVF this time round was that noone really knew what was happening :) | 02:31 |
| \sh | ogra: so..we need a good securtiy team | 02:31 |
| ogra | so we should totally stick to the schedule as for main | 02:31 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: we _always_ need more MOTUs :-) | 02:31 |
| ogra | Yagisan++ | 02:31 |
| dholbach | ok, what can we decide on this? | 02:32 |
| ogra | dholbach, its over... failures happened... what should we decide here | 02:32 |
| ogra | we *are* in UVF that should be promoted in the channel... | 02:32 |
| dholbach | that's how i see it too | 02:32 |
| Nafallo | dholbach: to learn from previous releases (incl. breezy) mistakes and start following procedures :-) | 02:33 |
| \sh | dholbach: that we stay with _MAIN_ schedule for dapper, but it has to be discussed at UBZ how we can achieve a _secure universe_ and how the support of _dapper_ will apply to _universe/multiverse_ | 02:33 |
| ogra | no wikipage needed | 02:33 |
| ajmitch | ogra: we'll have to talk about how lenient we can be with UVF exceptions | 02:33 |
| ajmitch | ogra: since we'll probably get the request to import apt-get.org again | 02:33 |
| ajmitch | or other new stuff | 02:33 |
| dholbach | there should be good reasons, but we shouldnt be completely anal | 02:33 |
| Yagisan | for secure universe - I think new updates as required should be ok | 02:34 |
| ogra | ajmitch if the fix something ad are tested well and dont introduce additional breakage, exceptions are fine | 02:34 |
| \sh | ajmitch: regarding UVF for dapper, we have to comply with _main_ rules...so ogra and dholbach have to approve | 02:34 |
| ajmitch | \sh: just those 2? | 02:34 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: rather backports of fixes... | 02:34 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: where possible that is... | 02:34 |
| dholbach | . o O { as if we didnt have other stuff to do :-) } | 02:34 |
| Yagisan | Nafallo: of course | 02:34 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: no, we'll agree on a team | 02:34 |
| \sh | ajmitch: for me ogra and dholbach are the leads...so if they share their responsibilty it's up to them :) | 02:34 |
| Nafallo | kismet wasn't possible ;-) | 02:34 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: we 'sort of' had a team for breezy for UVF ;) | 02:34 |
| dholbach | but let's go ahead, if you don't mind - i really don't fancy building a complex rule system | 02:34 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: yeah :) | 02:35 |
| ajmitch | I don't like complex rules | 02:35 |
| Yagisan | Nafallo - neither is tor (was that fixed ??) | 02:35 |
| ogra | dholbach, we'll need one if we have a 5 year support cycle | 02:35 |
| ajmitch | just ones that work, and let us get dapper rocking by release ;) | 02:35 |
| \sh | *ALL*: lets discuss it at UBZ ;) | 02:35 |
| \sh | with a beer ,-) | 02:35 |
| dholbach | ogra: we will manage | 02:35 |
| Nafallo | \sh: I can't go :-P | 02:35 |
| ajmitch | \sh: not everyone will be there | 02:35 |
| === Yagisan can't get to UBZ | ||
| ogra | \sh, yup | 02:35 |
| === Lathiat isn't going either | ||
| === Yagisan will attend birth of child instead | ||
| ogra | we'll make a IRC based BOF about it ;) | 02:35 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: oh, congrats :) | 02:36 |
| === Nafallo will move his girlfriend home ;-) | ||
| Lathiat | :) | 02:36 |
| \sh | ajmitch: I think we're enough to discuss this...and prepare a proposal for agreeing with the rest... | 02:36 |
| ajmitch | ogra: like UDU? :) | 02:36 |
| ajmitch | \sh: yep | 02:36 |
| ogra | ajmitch yup | 02:36 |
| ajmitch | \sh: as long as canadian beer is good, we'll be fine ;) | 02:36 |
| \sh | Yagisan: congrats | 02:36 |
| Treenaks | ogra: I _will_ be coming :) | 02:36 |
| Nafallo | ... and congrats Yagisan :-) | 02:36 |
| === ajmitch booked flights for UBZ yesterday | ||
| Yagisan | thanks - second bub :) | 02:37 |
| siretart | :) | 02:37 |
| === Yagisan should find more customers | ||
| ogra | dholbach, 5 years with broken packages in universe are quite bad... "we'll manage" isnt enough | 02:37 |
| dholbach | ogra: i didnt say that we should upload everything that gets in our hands, did i? :) | 02:37 |
| ajmitch | ogra: so we need to recruit more :) | 02:37 |
| ogra | dholbach, nope, but "we'll manage" isnt "we'll have to stich to release plans" | 02:38 |
| dholbach | i just stated, that we shouldnt agree on something for the next release now | 02:38 |
| ogra | stick too | 02:38 |
| ajmitch | dholbach++ | 02:38 |
| Nafallo | or get canonical to pay someone for a secure universe :-P | 02:38 |
| \sh | ogra: well...lets hear other voices about how we have to handle universe/multiverse for dapper, because officially it's not "supported" as _main_ is | 02:38 |
| ajmitch | \sh: no, but universe is important | 02:38 |
| \sh | ajmitch: it is for sure... | 02:38 |
| === ajmitch doesn't know where he'll be in 5 years :) | ||
| ogra | \sh, universe will be closed as main will at release | 02:39 |
| \sh | ajmitch: but I don't think, putting a 5 years support (server side) or 3 years (desktop side) on volunteers back | 02:39 |
| siretart | ogra: I think if you really want to improve the over package quality in universe, we should rather take package from debian/testing instead of debian/unstable, or establish a 'testing' distribution on our own | 02:39 |
| dholbach | hrm | 02:39 |
| siretart | plus manual uploads | 02:39 |
| ogra | siretart, thats a no go | 02:39 |
| ajmitch | \sh: UniverseSecurity was written to be best-effort | 02:39 |
| siretart | ogra: I know | 02:39 |
| Yagisan | siretart - that would miss packages like mine | 02:39 |
| \sh | ogra: for sure...that's not the questions...the question is: release snapshot 6.04 -> supporting 3 years a package base of >10k | 02:39 |
| ajmitch | testing is often less stable than unstable | 02:39 |
| ogra | siretart, what enables us to have 6 month releases it the non existence of "testing" | 02:40 |
| Nafallo | \sh: I agree with you fwiw. we can't have support for universe in dapper. please convince people on UBZ about that ;-). | 02:40 |
| Kamion | officially the support just covers main | 02:40 |
| Kamion | AFAIK | 02:40 |
| Kamion | but the better universe can be made, the better | 02:40 |
| Kamion | (obviously) | 02:40 |
| ogra | Kamion++ | 02:40 |
| ajmitch | Kamion: most likely, but people will want to run universe packages | 02:40 |
| siretart | ogra: I'm clear and happy about that disicion. | 02:40 |
| dholbach | and we should make more use of *-{updates,security} (and no, this is no argument for lax rules) | 02:40 |
| Yagisan | well we will have dapper-updates for a reason | 02:40 |
| ajmitch | dholbach: agreed | 02:40 |
| ogra | siretart, and grabbing from debian testing will give us more outdated SW | 02:41 |
| siretart | the other possibility would be to use dapper-updates for less than critical bugfixes | 02:41 |
| \sh | Kamion: this is one point we should discuss at UBZ...how we see universe as one piece of work (even seeing it only community/volunteer supported) for dapper | 02:41 |
| siretart | after dapper release. | 02:41 |
| ogra | Yagisan, yes as we have hoary and warty udates | 02:41 |
| ajmitch | sounds like UBZ might have a few universe BOFs :) | 02:41 |
| ogra | yup | 02:41 |
| Yagisan | ogra: but they don't get much use | 02:41 |
| siretart | yup, we should have | 02:41 |
| ogra | Yagisan, they do for the purposed they were made for | 02:41 |
| ogra | -d | 02:42 |
| \sh | ogra: are they usefull for universe as well? if so, how do we use them? ,-) | 02:42 |
| ajmitch | ok, how much mroe can we discuss this now? | 02:42 |
| ajmitch | s/mroe/more/ | 02:42 |
| ogra | nothing, lets move it to UBZ | 02:42 |
| dholbach | ajmitch: we should agree to defer | 02:42 |
| ajmitch | ok | 02:42 |
| dholbach | yeah, next item? | 02:42 |
| === ajmitch needs his beauty sleep sometime ;) | ||
| \sh | Transitions, Testbuilds etc. Last workload to fix (StephanHermann) (status report) | 02:42 |
| ogra | just make sure we dont have anybody introducing any breakage in breezy *now* | 02:42 |
| \sh | I pointed most of the things out on the wiki page... | 02:42 |
| \sh | CXX Transition is done. | 02:43 |
| ajmitch | ogra: well I'll have a new upstream for f-spot next week, but I know what bugs it fixes :) | 02:43 |
| dholbach | excellent | 02:43 |
| ogra | ajmitch thats ok :) | 02:43 |
| \sh | Unmet Deps -> slomo said 92 packages are left... | 02:43 |
| dholbach | i will write a script that will take the popcon info and the test-build info and merge them | 02:43 |
| ogra | sounds good for 3 weeks left | 02:43 |
| slomo | \sh: 88 source packages... including main ones | 02:43 |
| \sh | slomo: ok...88 :) | 02:44 |
| ogra | :) | 02:44 |
| \sh | some of them are haskell stuff | 02:44 |
| ajmitch | some of the unmet deps are old, crufty, and some of them are removed from debian | 02:44 |
| Nafallo | baah. I read popcorn. I want a script for making popcorn :-P. | 02:44 |
| \sh | so ghc6 specialists are needed ;) | 02:44 |
| siretart | sistpoty? | 02:44 |
| siretart | ;) | 02:44 |
| ogra | Nafallo, write it, youre a MOTU :) | 02:44 |
| sistpoty | hm... i can't say I'm a specialist ;) but i'll give my best;) | 02:44 |
| \sh | everything which is not fixable, no new upstream, no new work, should be listed asap on morgue | 02:44 |
| ogra | nope | 02:45 |
| ogra | only stuff users wont demand... | 02:45 |
| \sh | ogra: please add a && in between the points | 02:45 |
| ogra | even if it doesnt build, the source might be good to have | 02:45 |
| \sh | or s/\,/\&\&/ | 02:45 |
| slomo | for the haskell stuff... it is behind my name on the unmet deps page... but everybody can take the stuff, i will get to it in 2 weeks otherwise (no time before that :( ) | 02:45 |
| ogra | s/doesnt build/is not fixable, no new upstream, no new work/ | 02:46 |
| sistpoty | slomo: ok | 02:46 |
| ajmitch | 2 weeks from now is < 1 week from release, right? | 02:46 |
| ogra | yup | 02:46 |
| ajmitch | so we'd better help out as much as we can | 02:46 |
| \sh | sistpoty: please check then hmake ;) | 02:46 |
| \sh | or slomo ;) | 02:46 |
| sistpoty | ' \sh: i will ;) | 02:46 |
| \sh | sistpoty: thx :) | 02:46 |
| Nafallo | I can check slomo :-) | 02:46 |
| slomo | \sh: i already tried to fix it... isn't that easy ;) | 02:46 |
| sistpoty | hehe | 02:46 |
| \sh | Ok...another important thing is: | 02:47 |
| \sh | testbuilds running now and again | 02:47 |
| \sh | you can find the logs to those testbuilds on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/ | 02:47 |
| dholbach | > "i will write a script that will take the popcon info and the test-build info and merge them" :) | 02:47 |
| Nafallo | hmm, we need an ografying effect on that URL :-) | 02:48 |
| dholbach | how is the gl/glu transition going on? | 02:48 |
| \sh | important note: The testbuilds are not synced with the actual builds, so it's a snapshot of a certain date | 02:48 |
| ogra | Nafallo, dholbachs script will do... | 02:49 |
| Nafallo | k. I like those colorthingies :-). much easier to see what happens :-) | 02:49 |
| \sh | when u need some informations about those outputs...please ask infinity or lamont, they can help you to understand ;) | 02:49 |
| dholbach | how is the gl/glu transition going on? | 02:50 |
| dholbach | are there much untransitioned items still? | 02:50 |
| ogra | Nafallo, true, but as long as it runs through my own server i'd like to keep the traffic low... bunzipping on the fly is cpu consuming ;) | 02:50 |
| Nafallo | ogra: hehe :-) | 02:50 |
| siretart | dholbach: I must admit, that I lost the overview, sorry :( | 02:50 |
| dholbach | i guess, we will find them in the test-rebuild list | 02:51 |
| \sh | Here is what I got when running the above (Updated 2005-09-15): (BarrydeFreese) | 02:51 |
| \sh | boson-base, felt, galan, ghc-cvs, ghc5, libsdl-erlang, ncbi-tools6, poker3d | 02:51 |
| Nafallo | poker3d is fixed when I runned it 4 days later. | 02:51 |
| \sh | ok | 02:53 |
| siretart | boson-base is a beast, I tried and failed :( | 02:53 |
| \sh | siretart: even new upstream (from real upstream) is buggy | 02:53 |
| siretart | oh | 02:53 |
| siretart | :/ | 02:53 |
| \sh | as many of sources on worldforge | 02:53 |
| ajmitch | ghc5 can be dropped, as can ghc-cvs? | 02:53 |
| \sh | there are many things from old kde sources included which is fcking shit | 02:54 |
| sistpoty | hm... -cvs seems to be a cvs snapshot... if we pull newest sources it shouldn't be that hard to get it to work | 02:54 |
| \sh | sistpoty: nescessary to have it for breezy? | 02:54 |
| Nafallo | yepp, still the same except poker3d :-) | 02:54 |
| sistpoty | ' \sh: no | 02:54 |
| === Nafallo updates the wiki | ||
| \sh | sistpoty: so leave it as broken package or remove the binaries by elmo and leave it as source? ,-) | 02:56 |
| Yagisan | is it possible (in future) for when we upload something to revu | 02:56 |
| sistpoty | ' \sh: a old version of the -cvs is almost useless... ;) | 02:56 |
| Yagisan | that we can get it autobuild on all ubuntu arches | 02:57 |
| \sh | sistpoty: ok...so morgue | 02:57 |
| Yagisan | with build logs sent to us ? | 02:57 |
| \sh | Yagisan: if you provide an amd64 + ppc? | 02:57 |
| ogra | Yagisan, we have the buildds for that... | 02:57 |
| \sh | + ia64 + sparc64? ,-) | 02:57 |
| \sh | and sparc32 ,-) | 02:57 |
| Nafallo | I wish tiber was amd64 so that we could build amd64+i386 :-) | 02:58 |
| ogra | revu is for review, a testbuild on one arch is a nice goddie, but cant replace the real buildds | 02:58 |
| sistpoty | Yagisan: autobuilding on i386 is planned however ;) | 02:58 |
| siretart | developer machines would be nice ;) | 02:58 |
| Yagisan | yep - but it's nice to fix the bugs before that get into universe | 02:58 |
| Yagisan | s/that/they | 02:58 |
| ogra | i think thats something to address at UBZ | 02:58 |
| \sh | yes | 02:59 |
| ajmitch | once launchpad is fully operational, people will be able to do autobuilds on canonical's servers | 02:59 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: that's why everyone builds them and leave a comment? ;-) | 02:59 |
| siretart | wow | 02:59 |
| ajmitch | since they just commit a branch, and request a build of that branch | 02:59 |
| ajmitch | afaict | 02:59 |
| ajmitch | it's some serious crack going on there ;) | 02:59 |
| Nafallo | siretart: ey! could we have checkboxes? tested on: [X] amd64 [X] i386 [X] ppc ? | 02:59 |
| sistpoty | Nafallo: good idea ;) | 03:00 |
| siretart | Nafallo: would be possible, file a bug in trac ;) | 03:00 |
| Yagisan | very good idea | 03:00 |
| lamont | ajmitch: that is correct | 03:00 |
| Nafallo | hmm, where is this trac-thingie? :-P | 03:00 |
| ajmitch | lamont: about the crack? :) | 03:00 |
| lamont | although first-launch you only get FCC architectures, I believe. | 03:00 |
| lamont | no, about what launchpad does. | 03:01 |
| sistpoty | Nafallo: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi | 03:01 |
| ajmitch | lamont: right | 03:01 |
| \sh | http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ | 03:01 |
| ajmitch | what other meeting topics? .desktop files? | 03:02 |
| \sh | yes...when we have time we should also work on them | 03:02 |
| sistpoty | is there some doc to .desktop files? | 03:02 |
| ajmitch | there are some wiki pages | 03:03 |
| ajmitch | it's fairly basic to write the files | 03:03 |
| sistpoty | k | 03:03 |
| ajmitch | moderately easy to get them installed with the package | 03:03 |
| \sh | checking before if upstream (== debian and real) has one. if not, then create one, if yes, include it | 03:03 |
| Nafallo | ticket 5 filed :-) | 03:04 |
| ajmitch | debian often has the menu file, which can be converted I believe | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | with menu-xdg | 03:04 |
| siretart | ajmitch: for very basic things, perhaps. xdg and .desktop files are more mighty, I think.. | 03:05 |
| ajmitch | siretart: sure, but we usually just want something basic so a user can start an app | 03:05 |
| ogra | but they are essential for g-a-i | 03:05 |
| siretart | right, too | 03:05 |
| ajmitch | right, I forgot about g-a-i using them | 03:05 |
| Yagisan | g-a-i ? | 03:06 |
| ajmitch | gnome-app-install | 03:06 |
| Yagisan | thanks | 03:06 |
| ajmitch | iirc :) | 03:06 |
| ajmitch | or add applications in your applications menu on breezy | 03:06 |
| \sh | ajmitch: gnome that is ;) | 03:07 |
| ajmitch | \sh: well that's what all the cool people use ;) | 03:08 |
| === sistpoty is not cool | ||
| sistpoty | ;) | 03:09 |
| siretart | lol | 03:09 |
| \sh | ajmitch: then i'm uber-kewl...i'm using both .. or even a n00b ;-) | 03:10 |
| ajmitch | haha | 03:10 |
| === terrex [n=terrex@84-122-83-29.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| ajmitch | any other meeting business? | 03:10 |
| \sh | next meeting? | 03:10 |
| ajmitch | mm, thanks :) | 03:10 |
| dholbach | after UBZ? | 03:10 |
| ajmitch | at UBZ? :) | 03:11 |
| dholbach | hehe | 03:11 |
| ajmitch | since UBZ is 2-3 weeks after release | 03:11 |
| \sh | _at_ for some MOTUS, after with all MOTUs (well all!=all in this sense, well...gnarf) | 03:11 |
| ajmitch | not sure when dapper is open for upload | 03:11 |
| siretart | what are our priorities to release? | 03:11 |
| ajmitch | but we'll want to do some planning | 03:11 |
| ogra | ajmitch, one or two weeks after UBZ i guess | 03:12 |
| \sh | ajmitch: i think it will be open much faster then the last time | 03:12 |
| ajmitch | ogra: breezy was open for uploads at UDU | 03:12 |
| ogra | during UDU iic | 03:12 |
| ajmitch | we were doing crazy mono uploads, remember | 03:12 |
| ajmitch | so shall we have our next MOTU meeting between release day & UBZ? | 03:12 |
| ajmitch | it'll give us some ideas for BOFs as well | 03:13 |
| ogra | yup | 03:13 |
| \sh | ok | 03:13 |
| ogra | and one at UBZ | 03:13 |
| ajmitch | ok | 03:13 |
| Yagisan | whats the policy for "freelancers" like me - that aren't motu's - pass our stuff through revu ? | 03:13 |
| Kamion | Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:05:56 +0100 (BST) | 03:13 |
| ogra | i.e. a BOF/Meeting mix | 03:13 |
| Kamion | ^-- first upload to breezy | 03:13 |
| Kamion | UDU was 25-30 April | 03:13 |
| ogra | ah, ok | 03:14 |
| \sh | what about 2005-10-19? | 03:14 |
| dholbach | Yagisan: you'll be a MOTU soon, but before, people will sponsor your uploads | 03:14 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: yeah, or put them up on the appropriate wiki page | 03:14 |
| \sh | for the BoF/MOTU meeting? | 03:14 |
| Nafallo | wow. it was open _before_ UDU :-P | 03:14 |
| ajmitch | \sh: sounds good | 03:14 |
| ajmitch | \sh: time of day? | 03:14 |
| Kamion | hoary release was 8 April | 03:14 |
| \sh | any objections? so swapping time to 20UTC/22UTC? | 03:14 |
| Kamion | so expect dapper to be open early the week after breezy release | 03:15 |
| Nafallo | 20 should work :-) | 03:15 |
| ajmitch | Kamion: great, thanks | 03:15 |
| Kamion | there was a semi-official "go and get some sleep" policy for the weekend after hoary release | 03:15 |
| Nafallo | that's 22 for me :-P | 03:15 |
| ajmitch | Kamion: we'll have syncs starting pretty much straight away? | 03:15 |
| === ajmitch imagines we'll have a big MOTU merge party at the start of dapper | ||
| \sh | any voices on the time? | 03:16 |
| Kamion | ajmitch: should imagine so, yes; that was how it worked for breezy | 03:16 |
| ajmitch | \sh: 20UTC is good for me | 03:16 |
| Nafallo | \sh: NOT 22 ;-) | 03:16 |
| \sh | ok 2005-10-19 20:00 UTC | 03:16 |
| \sh | 3 | 03:16 |
| \sh | 2 | 03:16 |
| \sh | 1 | 03:16 |
| \sh | settled ;) | 03:16 |
| ajmitch | yay ;) | 03:16 |
| sistpoty | yeehaa | 03:16 |
| Nafallo | we :-) | 03:17 |
| ajmitch | beer time now? ;) | 03:17 |
| Nafallo | close the meeting now? :-) | 03:17 |
| Yagisan | not quite | 03:17 |
| dholbach | yeah | 03:17 |
| \sh | something else for now? | 03:17 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: damn, it's early afternoon here ;) | 03:17 |
| Yagisan | I will do a quick sec update of prelink | 03:17 |
| \sh | I'm still in the office ;) | 03:17 |
| Yagisan | for hoary | 03:17 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: shall I do minutes, or do you want to do them this time? | 03:17 |
| Yagisan | who do I send it too ? | 03:17 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: ok, usual security review procedures for that | 03:17 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: security-review@lists.ubuntu.com :-) | 03:18 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: i could write up a draft, and correct my sh*t? | 03:18 |
| Yagisan | it's fixed in breezy | 03:18 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: sure | 03:18 |
| Yagisan | but not hoary | 03:18 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: cool | 03:18 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: that's fine, but pitti will review & probably upload | 03:18 |
| ajmitch | sistpoty: thanks :) | 03:18 |
| Yagisan | pitti fixed breezy (after I nagged him) | 03:18 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com//SecurityUpdateProcedures | 03:18 |
| \sh | ok I'll update the wiki pages | 03:19 |
| ogra | err, does that fit into the TZ we are in at UBZ ? | 03:19 |
| sistpoty | ajmitch: np ;) | 03:19 |
| Yagisan | thanks | 03:19 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: was that the address space exposure? | 03:19 |
| Yagisan | yep | 03:19 |
| ajmitch | ogra: that's the pre-UBZ meeting | 03:19 |
| Yagisan | it's like 30 seconds to fix | 03:19 |
| \sh | ogra: pre-UBZ ;) | 03:20 |
| ogra | oh, ok | 03:20 |
| ajmitch | ogra: we'll be starting UBZ about 11-12 days later | 03:20 |
| Yagisan | but it will be on my business website the day breezy comes out | 03:20 |
| \sh | ogra: UBZ is starting for me with a beer...;) | 03:20 |
| ogra | \sh said BoF/MOTU meeting, i mixed that up | 03:20 |
| \sh | ogra: yes...some points for additional BoFs at UBZ ;) | 03:20 |
| ogra | yup | 03:20 |
| ogra | got it now :) | 03:20 |
| Yagisan | so I thought I may as well fix it now | 03:20 |
| === Treenaks can't wait for it to be UBZ-time :) | ||
| ajmitch | \sh: only 1 beer? :) | 03:21 |
| Nafallo | ey! it's kernel freeze today? | 03:21 |
| ajmitch | Nafallo: yup | 03:21 |
| \sh | ajmitch: a beer means "sitting at cologne airport and drink at least 3 before 10:45" ,-) | 03:21 |
| ajmitch | \sh: haha | 03:22 |
| Nafallo | that means I could upgrade my server. | 03:22 |
| \sh | kernelfreeze is 29th , right? | 03:22 |
| slomo | oh no... so breezy will be incompatible with my ibook :( | 03:22 |
| ajmitch | \sh: I've got a few stops on the way - so I might hit the bars at the airport :) | 03:22 |
| ajmitch | \sh: I heard vancouver has free wifi too :) | 03:22 |
| \sh | September 29th | 03:22 |
| \sh | 03:22 | |
| \sh | 03:22 | |
| \sh | Breezy: ArtworkDeadline, NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline, KernelFreeze | 03:22 |
| Nafallo | stupid ISP not giving me higher bandwidth :-( | 03:22 |
| \sh | 03:22 | |
| \sh | ajmitch: lets what ffm has ;) | 03:22 |
| Treenaks | \sh: Kln? I thought you were flying from Frankfurt? | 03:23 |
| \sh | frankfurt/main even | 03:23 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: if there's any other issues, please let us know if you can :) | 03:23 |
| \sh | Treenaks: I start at cologne via frankfurt straight to montreal ;) | 03:23 |
| Yagisan | ajmitch - I do - as allways | 03:23 |
| Treenaks | \sh: ah.. I'm still on Schiphol -> Heathrow -> Montreal | 03:23 |
| \sh | Treenaks: in frankfurt I will meet with siretart ;) | 03:23 |
| Nafallo | \sh: the last kernel comes today, then they will have a week to squash the bugs in it ;-) | 03:23 |
| === ajmitch does dunedin->auckland->san francisco->vancouver->montreal | ||
| Treenaks | \sh: together with spacey | 03:23 |
| Yagisan | usually give one - two weeks before sticking it on my website | 03:24 |
| \sh | Treenaks: read about it :) | 03:24 |
| ajmitch | Yagisan: great, thanks | 03:24 |
| Yagisan | depending on severity | 03:24 |
| ajmitch | so I've got a few hours at least of sitting in airports on the way there | 03:24 |
| Yagisan | I sat on prelink since UDU because it's not directly expoitable | 03:24 |
| === Yagisan needs to get his new gpg key signed | ||
| === ajmitch really has to get active in the universe security team for dapper | ||
| ogra | Yagisan, where in .au are you ? | 03:25 |
| Yagisan | Sydney | 03:25 |
| ajmitch | ogra: you met him at UDU, remember? | 03:25 |
| ajmitch | or at least I think you met him.. | 03:26 |
| ogra | Yagisan, lifeless or jdub should be able to sign you then | 03:26 |
| Treenaks | ogra: jdub is going to be hard during his tour :) | 03:26 |
| === ajmitch doesn't plan to be back in sydney this year | ||
| ajmitch | lifeless is back there now from london | 03:26 |
| === Yagisan has new key on multiple redundant backups this time | ||
| ogra | ajmitch, since he cant find a photo, i still dont know who he is :) | 03:26 |
| Nafallo | Yagisan: good :-) | 03:26 |
| Yagisan | ogra: I have a scanner - give me a few minutes | 03:26 |
| ogra | Treenaks, did that start already | 03:27 |
| ogra | ? | 03:27 |
| === ajmitch is sad that hostinggeek never turned up at UDU :) | ||
| Treenaks | ogra: no, Oct 7 | 03:27 |
| ogra | ajmitch, i guess he knows why he didnt come ;) | 03:28 |
| ajmitch | ogra: perhaps :) | 03:28 |
| \sh | ajmitch: he is worse then diablo-3d? | 03:28 |
| === ajmitch isn't going to take it further in here :P | ||
| ogra | heh | 03:29 |
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| ajmitch | night all | 03:34 |
| Yagisan | night ajmitch | 03:34 |
| dholbach | night andrew | 03:35 |
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| Ivarix | mako: ping pong :-) | 04:36 |
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